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The Ultimate Fighting Championship started in 1993, put together to find which style of fighting would win in an actual bout. The legendary Gracie Clan with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu got the better of karate, boxing, wrestling and kickboxing. It's become so popular now, it offers 12 to 14 live pay-per-view events annually. And you might be thinking, how does it compare to boxing? Well, you can strike with your legs, you can wrestle as well in UFC. Of course, you can't in boxing. It's not a tough man competition. Not no holds barred either. No strikes to the groin, no gouging. It has sought out state regulation, not run from it. They fight five rounds as opposed to 12, but frequently it does end via KO or tap out. Alright, let's talk about this. Let's welcome in right now boxing promoter Lou DeBella and UFC commentator and all-round personality Joe Rogan. Joe, let me start with you. Will mixed martial arts peak and fall like kickboxing, or will it become a permanent part of the sports culture? Well, I certainly think it's a permanent part of the sports culture. It's a much more exciting sport than any of the other combat sports that are out there right now. And that's why it's here, and that's why it's the fastest growing sport in the world. Lou, what do you think of UFC? I'm not a big fan, but I tend to agree with Joe that it seems to have a fan base. It's one company dominating an entire industry. My guess is that as long as I can continue to get young white guys to watch, they're going to be there for a long time. Do you think it stays around? Does it compete with boxing or overtake boxing, Lou? It's got nothing to do with boxing. The same way wrestling has nothing to do with boxing. It's a different form of entertainment. It's in a cage. But pro wrestling is fake. This is actual combat competition, Lou. That's very different from WWE. Yeah, but it's sort of like human cock fighting in my view, or pitbull fighting. Guys are elbowing each other to the heads. Guys are kneeing each other. They get into leg locks and start rolling around on the ground in submission holes. Joe, you can't respond to that first, Joe. How is that human cock fighting? You know what that is? That's actual fighting. You know what boxing is? Boxing is a very limited form of fighting. It's kind of a silly agreement. Say, like, we hate each other, we're going to fight, we're going to duke it out man to man, but we're only going to use our hands. That's it. What ultimate fighting is, it's the actual sport of fighting. It encompasses all aspects of fighting. The ground game, kicking, punching, elbows, submissions, all the above. That's why it's much more exciting. That's why it's a much more dynamic sport. What boxing is is one aspect of mixed martial arts. If we ever advertise boxing matches on ESPN or HBO or any place else with blood splats like you do on your Spike TV show, the state athletic commission is to jump all over us. It's a different form of entertainment. I have nothing to do with how they advertise it. I don't agree that blood is a very important part of the sport. And I actually don't agree that elbows are a very important part of the sport. You know, I think there's some aspects of the sport that could be changed or moved around. But the most important thing is that it's the sport of fighting. And what boxing is, is the sport of punching. That's all it is. And there's so many aspects of boxing that are really ineffective, that don't really work in a real fight. All the bobbing and weaving and shoulder rolling, all the beautiful moves that Pernell Whittaker and James Toney and some of those... I'm a boxing fan. I love boxing. No, you're not a boxing fan. There's some great... Yes, how do you say I'm not a boxing fan? Because you don't get it. It's a science. It's defense is as important as offense. Guys like you would never clear up that Willy Pep or Pernell Whittaker or Floyd Mayweather. You don't get it. First of all, you're wrong. I just said Pernell Whittaker. You don't know me and you don't know what I'm a fan of. I am a fan of boxing. It's a beautiful sport. But it's a sport that encompasses one aspect of fighting. What ultimate fighting is is a sport of fighting. What you guys don't understand, you guys are a dying breed. You boxing guys are humans, cock fighting. What you don't understand is your sport is getting swallowed. It's getting swallowed by a greater, more efficient, more spectacular sport. It's not being readied. It's not being readied. It's the famous people that you have right now are the only famous people that are going to exist in the future for boxing. The Oscar De La Hoya's, the Bernard Hopkins and Jermaine Taylor's, the guys that were already famous before UFC came along. There will be no new ones. Can boxing respond to a sport that has cohesive marketing? Again, you're going to represent your fighters, but not the sport as a whole. So can boxing match that? It's very difficult when you have one company dominating the whole world. Most of the product other than UFC is complete garbage. UFC is well packaged. That's not true at all. That's not true at all. There's WEC is excellent fights. Pride has excellent fights. There's the IFL. There's a lot of organizations that put on great fights. Bulldog fights put on excellent fights. I don't know anything, dude. I leased my car. I don't even know my house. I got a mortgage. You know what you're talking about. You're telling me that I'm not a boxing fan. Dude, you're a guy who's taking this all very personal because you realize your sport is getting swallowed. I'm not screaming about your sport, guys. It's going to go away. You are saying that I'm not even a boxing fan. You're saying that I don't like Willie Pep. Meanwhile, I have a collection of DVDs of old fights. I've got all sorts of old fights on DVD that I watch. I love boxing. I am a boxing fan. A huge Roberto Duran fan. I think has the salient point here that boxing has kind of done it to itself. But recently, first, guys, I want you to respond to this. I spoke to both top fighters in each sport very recently. Pretty boy Floyd Mayweather, the welterweight champion of the world and Chuck Liddell. They both had quite a bit to say about the other sport. I mean, I feel the guys that's in UFC can make an inbox. And so they chose the UFC. I mean, they fight for like what, 12 minutes, tattoo their head, put a couple of pieces in their lip, in their ear, whatever. And they go out there and fight for a three, five or 12 minutes. He couldn't cut it in our sport. I mean, he would. I got 135 pounds of those with me that would drop him on his head. He would make out a first round, you know, so he's 150 pounds. It's taking him down would be easy. I mean, it's not. It would be it would be would be a would be a fight. Lou, let's start with your response to both guys there. They may both be right. I said from the beginning, it's apples and oranges. They may both be right. I don't think Floyd do very well in a street fight in a cage. And I don't think that if the following boxing rules, these guys that are experts in various forms of fighting are going to be able to walk in there and deal with the science of a Floyd Mayweather. So I tend to think that probably both right. Joe. Well, for Floyd Mayweather saying that these guys couldn't make it in boxing, much of them started out with wrestling or grappling backgrounds. A lot of guys started out with judo backgrounds or wrestling backgrounds and mixed martial arts or the ultimate fighting championship is the first avenue that they have for, you know, to compete as a professional athlete in their sport. I mean, they have these guys we have in the UFC that fought in the Olympics. We have guys that are the wrestled in the Olympics that didn't have an avenue for professional competition before the UFC. You know, I think boxing is a great sport, but it is that it is a sport and it is a limited sport. In fact, that it is one aspect of fighting. It is one aspect of mixed martial arts. Right. All aspects put together. I would just say with hands, I think guys using their hands because it is limited. It is to me more aesthetically pleasing at the same time. I think you have to give respect to the guys in jujitsu and everything else. Lou DeBella, Joe Rogan. It's not it's not aesthetically pleasing to me. I think that jujitsu is very aesthetically pleasing. You understand the game. Also, quick submissions is not as fun as guys who will have to open up their hands and use combinations. I completely disagree. I completely disagree. A beautiful rear naked choke. Thank you so much. Come on, man. This is exciting. Lou DeBella, I love you. Big kiss. Take care, Joe. Let's go through some history here.