#2028 - Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp

Of course, of course. Who's releasing? I mean when you see these these The Pentagon's talking about it when you know Intelligent officials you ever wonder whether or not it's disinformation Yeah, you want it. So yeah, I'll take that first. Yeah, I've heard you kind of talk about that about you know And I think it's a very healthy suspicion to have My perspective is a little different in that people are always coming at me with fake information like every day all the time but the people in government that we have been able to kind of interface with I Wish there was an adult in the room. I wish that this was orchestrated through the media It would give me some sort of hope that someone has some sort of control on this and that has not been my experience So what is your experience? What do you what's your impression of how it's all happening? It's a big question. I don't know where to start on that. But I just here's what I know. I know that There are people in government that Want some level of disclosure on whatever this is without defining it just there should be oversight So I know that to be true There are good people that think that people are running amok and there must be oversight not just financially But if these types of technologies actually exist right who's in control of them and why? Yeah, who has access to them and why I mean we have a history of disinformation and Misinformation put out to the public and to Congress by the intelligence community by the Pentagon they lie all the time It it comes it's part of the turf. It's part of the job But for them to then go into closed-door briefings with members of Congress with the oversight committees who handle their budgets For them to lie about that that's another matter and I don't think they would Because they could get busted for it. A lot of stuff is coming out now and I know we get asked all the time Who's behind this push, you know? It looks like it's one big movement as opposed to a bunch of different things that all happened in approximately the same time It's kind of been organic different people have come forward and it encourages other people come to come forward as opposed to somebody Doing a master made a manipulation of the whole thing. What resistance is there to this information getting out? There's resistance on like multiple levels So despite what you believe to be true or not true The big question is are we going to be able to verify some of these claims that that's all I care about Right if we're back engineering some of these craft Then I believe that we should we should have the discovery process to find out if things like what David Grush has said under oath That he has literally put his well-being and his safety on the line for if that is true Then we have a duty to find out so the pushback comes from many levels. There's stigma. It's fucking huge, dude Like it is political toxicity for some of these senators to even you know, people don't want to know They don't want me to say I ever talk with them. It's like it's like a it's like a toxic Environment politically the UFO thing because everybody thinks it's bullshit or you're a loon if you believe it Not everybody but quite a few people not just that it doesn't help you get reelected man and then when you start poking the bear and going into the Oversight committees and the Senate Intelligence Committee and the you know, all these things they're like, whoa. Whoa. Whoa. This is our territory Why are you as Congress pushing on us? Why are you doing that? Like this is our job. We have clearances So there's that that kind of pushback to you look back at the beginning of the cover-up, you know, what why did it happen? Why did it start? Well, we if 1947 this gigantic wave of UFOs suddenly appear you got Kenneth Arnold You got Roswell hundreds of sightings all over We just come out of World War two and our military is faced with a new threat that they really don't know what the hell it Is they start looking at it and trying to figure it out, but they can't so they sort of painted themselves into a corner of secrecy Nobody wants to admit if you're a president or chairman of the Joint Chiefs or something flying in our atmosphere And we can't control it. We can't even we can't even catch it. We can't detect it on radar There's not much we can do then I want to admit that Secondly, I think what was told to me by a Senate intelligence guy who was a chief staffer who oversaw black budget operations He had come out to area 51 looking into the Lazar stuff years ago early 90s And he told me look if this is true if this cover-up is going on if they are diverting Millions of dollars maybe hundreds of millions of dollars from legitimate national security programs to keep this cover-up going as He suspected there were then somebody's going to go to prison when it comes out. They'd go to prison I think you heard we heard Dave grush speaking before this House committee in late July and which he talked about Special access programs hundreds of millions of dollars being funneled into them. Nothing ever comes out Congress has no oversight Congress doesn't even know they exist That's the kind of thing you could send somebody to prison if and when it comes out and then the final reason We can only speculate about it. Maybe there really is a big secret I wonder about it if if I was told here's the real deal. Here's what's gonna happen if this comes out Society will collapse. It is so overwhelming so disturbing that it would hit the fan that everybody freak out Maybe there is something like that. I don't know But it it gets dangerous for us to allow military folks to decide I can know it But you can't dad can know but mom and the kids can't know I don't like that You know, I'd like to be able to know myself. I don't like it either But why do they think that society would collapse? There was a Brookings Institution Institute study that was done in 1960 where they looked at it and well Let's say it was confirmed that we came out and admitted that extra Terrestrials are here and they speculated and looking at sociological matters that Social institutions would collapse people would do people want to still pay their taxes that they want to go to work It was so overwhelming The the fact that we a lesser species have been discovered by something more intelligent We know from human history how that works out when the Europeans come to North America We we know what happens to the people who are already here the less developed society. They collapse they were wiped out And I think that that was the projection of that study The only way to get around that they said is to prepare for it over a long period of time to condition Folks to get ready for it I don't know if there was ever a policy where they instituted that but it kind of looks like it although UFO and alien movies and TV shows and X-Files this and books and reports and children's cartoons It almost looks like we've been conditioned to get ready for it over the last 60 years when people talk about the possibility of these being some sort of black ops creation by the Defense Department some sort of weapons grade drone that moves at insane speeds with some unknown technology that they've developed in secrecy that Kind of falls apart when you go back to 47 if you go back to 47 and you're seeing these vehicles that are behaving in a very similar way or at least Described in a very similar way where they just jet off in insane rates of speed no visible means of propulsion no sound That that's the one thing that brings me back like God They they seem to act the same at least some of them do they seem to be written if we're talking about 1947 we can really safely assume that they did not have drone technology capable of you know Super hypersonic speeds at that time I'm really glad you mentioned that because that that is some that is a big part of the issue here is like people can just say oh This is really special projects that are even being hidden by our own our own government The thing is the UFO phenomenon has been ubiquitous. It's been everywhere in the world and it's it's been going on before 1947 so somebody had that technology now I I hope I do hope we've had some sort of ability to get derivative technologies I know they've been trying to do that if we believe the core concept that we have craft That's more advanced than ours that we're trying to reverse engineer So the fact you bring that up and I want to touch on what you just said the explanation I've been given We've both been given is that There are true national security concerns about this technology That the cover-up or whatever that it has to do with What will happen if we make a breakthrough in this technology and that can be weaponized so the secrecy you could say might I mean some people have convinced us have tried to convince us that There's real true national security issues with this in that once you admit one thing Those next questions are going to come and maybe we can't answer those yet. We don't know so that's the fear Is like it's like the Oppenheimer movie like you know shit's been kept pretty secret, but stuff has come out It's like what happens if we admit the fundamental truth that there are craft of unknown origin that are More advanced technologically than ours doesn't matter where they're from What what happens if we admit that so people are concerned from my opinion within government that? If they let that out The follow-up they're not going to be able to deal with This technology has been seen throughout human history on every continent in every culture for as far back as humans have been around That is not our technology that was flying around pre 1947 Look Dave Fraver was here in this chair Joe talking to you And he said he talked about the tic-tac incident from 2004 as he testified before Congress in late July We did we didn't have that technology then to do what the tic-tac did we don't have it now We don't have it if you look back at the paper trail This is what got me hooked on this topic in the begin with I I can't go out and find UFOs I don't know the cosmic Meaning of all this stuff, but there is a paper trail within our government documents memos reports that were generated by the Department of Defense Before the freedom of information act existed before they had to worry about the public ever seeing these reports those documents paid a pretty clear picture General Nathan Twining who became chief of the Air Force he was also the first Air Force guy to be the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff he wrote this document in 1947 the Twining memo where he talks about these things are not fictitious Or imaginary they're real and they're not ours and we don't think they're the Russians either It's it's not our technology. I wish we had I'm sorry. How did he describe it? It's not fictitious or imaginary It's real, but how did he describe the crafts or what they how they behave metallic? They could they can appear and disappear. We can't detect them on our sensors Whatever I think as it was radar back then that they can else fly our best planes Fly circles around us. There's nothing we could do about it that we have no defense mechanism against them And then there's the paper trail starts there There was a study by the FBI and the US Army in 1948 then the CIA after it was created got involved They've been studying this stuff for a long time and the documents where they speak to each other very frankly This is real. It's not us as the 1960 they put out a memo saying this is serious business, you know, we need to figure this out I think there are inescapable national security implications for this technology. I There is a race for it. We're trying to get it the Russians are trying to get it The Chinese are trying to get it whoever gets it they win You know is there some sort of reports about the Russians and the Chinese also having recovered crafts Dude, he smuggled a ton of classified documents out of Russia himself during glass notes in perestroika He went and met with the heads of the UFO programs for in Russia During that time period he came back with all those documents and actually supplied them to some people that that that happened It had a lot to do with Harry Reid's decision to go ahead and support funding Because those documents show that the Russians are trying to do what we're trying to do Which is to take this stuff apart and figure out how it works and what year was this? This is 1993 the first time I went but there's their study lasted They had the biggest study in the history of the world From 78 to 88 the USSR sent out an order to every military unit in the vast Soviet Empire That any UFO any or Betty ball light anything weird in the sky all has to be investigated and that Information had to be funneled to the Ministry of Defense to the desk of a guy named Colonel Boris Sokolov who was in charge of this program and I met him and he shared a lot of that information with me and he admitted we're trying to figure this stuff Out because if we could duplicate that technology we could kick your ass in terms of stealth We could beat you and your own game on stealth Technology so they were trying to do it. They're trying to figure it out We heard bits and pieces that they have recovered Crashes as well. So do the Chinese maybe the Israelis I mean also in these documents so and can you tell them who you gave them to that whole stuff? Can you tell me they got into the hands of the US government and then That was after I came back from Russia the first time I went back again in 96 A lot of the people who had been willing to talk to me during glasnost Were now afraid they would not meet with me the people who had gone on camera Changed their tunes because the whole country had changed in that time period but the documents also went to awesome That's the program that the DIA ran the Bigelow was the was the contractor for it And they hired a bunch of Russians to go through those documents figure out the structure of the Russian UFO program and and did a lot more analysis than I could do just by myself and in these documents They they talked about shoot-down attempts, which is something that we'll be hearing more about over the next 15 weeks I hope so in Russia they had this policy at first to engage these things and they lost pilots Yeah, they had 40 different incidents during that study where Russian warplanes chased UFOs Three of those cases the UFOs turned around and shot them down They disabled the planes and the planes crashed two of those pilots died and after the third crash The Russian Ministry of Defense put out the order leave them alone. They may have quote incredible capacities for retaliation So leave them alone and one last thing about that blew my mind We did a episode about this like him going to Russia the whole thing They talked about in those documents that they knew how many satellites that we had dedicated to Looking for UFOs is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, I met this Russian scientist who had worked on their version of Star Wars He lived in one of these secret cities He'd never spoken to it any journalist let alone a Western journalist and he started telling us about the the work that they were doing He showed me this tabletop Model of a laser weapon that he called the weapon of the aliens But he said he'd been involved in the Russian space program in the earliest days They had satellites up there that were seeing these things coming in and out of space into the Earth's atmosphere and going out He said the Americans I know that you guys had those satellites you were seeing the same stuff We were their intelligence agents got information from the US. They knew we were collecting information back then They know we're collecting it now and when When they said that they had jets shot down is that do we have instances of jets getting shot down in America? We do It's it's kind of sketchy because a lot of those records we have records of the planes going down But not there's no indication that the UFOs were responsible other than the Captain Mantell incident It's a pretty famous UFO case Where he chased a UFO and then crashed I think he might have run out of gas and the I think the Air Force tried to explain He was chasing the planet Venus, which is preposterous, you know. Yeah, we have some The CIA actually fully funded a movie narrated by Rod Serling It's called UFOs past present or future and there's two versions and you can find it online This is the most incredible UFO movie of all time because it's funded by the CIA to try to Apologize for that incident a saying he chased Venus. It's a cool old-school documentary on UFOs narrated by the Twilight Zone guy, huh Wow. Yeah fact so the Russians how many crafts of like we Supposedly grush said that the United States is in possession of 12 We should we should a back up on grush right like okay what I'm thinking is Something big happened. We had these hearings, right? And everybody knows grush because they saw him for the first time during that in those hearings He did not say that and so there's an important thing there what he said and what he couldn't say during those hearings So I'm not gonna say that grush has ever said that that's not in his dopp sir Like that's not authorized shit if somebody said that I don't know who said it. All we know He said was right there in that hearing Okay, you see I'm saying it's like there's a lot of rumors out there and I don't know so this 12 You've heard it from people and I've heard it from people not from grush though. Okay So I'm confused. So what has grush said rush said they definitely have Physical crafts so he was really so let me just set the scene for you with this hearing thing, right? So I know when people think this is like orchestrated man We fought for every millimeter of doing that hearing like I personally did you know and and and so did George and the idea was What can the public what can we put out to the public and let everybody know this is important to us It's the first time in history that you have commander David Fravor Lieutenant Ryan Graves and then one whistleblower a guy named David Grush who we can't validate what he said because it's all classified information but Commander Fravor at friends of ours, you know commander for he like just told what happened to him He chased the UFO then you've got Ryan Graves who his whole squadron has been seeing these things You've had both on your podcast But grush stood up there and he was very careful with his words and I want people to know why If you look at that setting you're gonna see right behind him was a guy named Chuck Chuck McCullough Chuck McCullough is the former intelligence community inspector general so like the cops of the intelligence community and He was right behind David Grush who is his client? So he's representing David Grush Because David Grush put a whistleblower complaint he put yeah and look at those two handsome guys right there So there's yeah, this is the biggest conspiracy photo of all time Can you imagine people seeing this and be like what are those idiots doing up there with him? But so behind they do the beard the glasses in the back. He looks so happy I People think that that guy with the bald head is James Clapper by the way I got a bunch of yeah wasn't like a bunch of comments that Clapper was looking at my notes during this He's just part of a Ryan's organization as a but you know, here's the deal man This photo is kind of hilarious because George literally Joe George had Ontological shock when we were in that room. It's like he's sitting there I mean he's sitting there and seeing after all this time this shit's being said out loud So so what happened was the seats were kind of like designated for us because George and I were supposed to testify by the way But then common wisdom says why have these journalist guys when you can hear directly from the first-hand people and we agreed Yeah But what we did was we put on congressional record Statements and people should read them if they haven't they're on congressional record I did an assessment of kind of the estimate of the situation on UFOs But he named names and and programs But what you're seeing there is and I kind of had to fight for this You know is getting his lawyer behind him should be like an obvious fucking thing when a guy's going up to testify Under oath in front of Congress if you believe him he's speaking under whistleblower protection, dude It was hard to get his lawyer behind him I had literally had to put the lawyer behind him So we got the lawyer behind him so he could lean in and be like careful Dave careful Which he did like a bunch of times and then there's George looking all scrunched and everybody's like why Jeremy over there? We're no one next to him. I think people are a little afraid of me cuz you know a little bit of a maniac sometimes Whatever we're there Dave starts talking they ask him questions. These weren't pre scripted or anything, you know We're talking about what could be asked for sure, but they weren't pre scripted what Dave grush said and correct me or add to if I get this wrong Dave grush said I did an investigation. It was my job I was hired by and this is a guy from from the National Reconnaissance Office the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency like this guy is is He's been in the intelligence community a long time and he sits there under oath and he says I Did an investigation I interviewed it was my job to look at over 2000 special access programs like black programs and it was my job to find out if any of them had to do with UAP and If there's any money being hidden like misappropriated theft and he's like after interviewing 40 witnesses. I Found a ton of shit that supports this and I've in fact he said I found people who worked on the craft first hand and There and they had to come in or they willingly came in he called him hostile and non hostile witnesses And he's like so I did that whole thing the second I did that which was my job. I was given the job reprisals started happening to me So he smartly did a whistleblower complaint through the presidential protection at an act 19 or something He went got the head of the ICIG the former head of the ICIG was a lawyer and he says fuck dude Here's what I know. Here's what people don't know is The ICIG so that the intelligence community did their own investigation Into David Grusch's witnesses and what he found they interviewed like 40 plus under oath and immediately said David Grusch's claim is both credible and Urgent so it's not like just one guy telling you our intelligence community did a deep dive investigation into what David Grush told them Under oath in the right secure settings and they're like credible urgent So David Grush can tell you the basic things that happened But you know how he kept saying in the appropriate environment if you've got clearance we can do that I'm willing to give you a list of hostile and non hostile people that worked on the craft You know biologicals he even said he said I'll give that to you today We just got to get a skiff and we got to make sure that you have access you have clearance and he was denied a skiff that day He's uh, he's a credible guy. He's the real deal I mean he had a he had a career in the Air Force served in Afghanistan a distinguished career Then he goes into the intelligence community working for the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency He was assigned by his boss to be the liaison to the UAP task force That's what Congress had set it up to investigate the whole UFO matter before the current program existed and that guy was in charge of the Task force Jay Stratton gave him a job go find the special access programs that are hiding UFO stuff either Siphoning millions of dollars or they've got technology crash retrievals reverse engineering all the stuff that we've always heard rumored and he did he found it Most of the juiciest stuff that he found he can't say in an unclassified setting it has to be because they will get him They will bust his ass if they can they've already tried like four times and that's something offline We'll talk about there have been attempts to get him silenced Unmuzzled by the way to not do podcasts or shows and stuff right to get a muzzle by People that are trying to say he's talking outside of his doppster, which is like what he's allowed to talk about So they're they're looking for one word that he says that's outside of that like I get asked by by people in the government Has he ever told you the number of crashes? Has he ever told you locations like I'm gonna fucking answer you first of all second of all no he hasn't Because that would be illegal if it were to be true So he is authorized to talk about a very limited number of things that correct and they're not vouching for their authenticity Doppster process which is I don't know what stands for but it's like a pre pub process He very smartly because his lawyer is really smart former ICIG He's like right, you know write it in what you want to talk about and see what they come back about what you can't talk about So they're not saying what he's saying is true. They're just saying you can talk within these parameters I would like to see if what he's saying is true. So we just need that option So who gives him the authority to talk about these things? No one gives him the authority. He's taking that all on himself. He's a true whistleblower Whether you believe his claims or not what he's doing is is legal, but it is I mean it's a career killer, right? Doppster says they go through it and they make sure that things that are like highly sensitive or classified Right, like you can't say this word at this program or this name. So they kind of do it as a pre publication thing That's the process. Yes. That makes sense I wrote a book with the column Kelleher and Jim Lekatsky about the DIA's UFO program It took doppster 14 months to approve our manuscript. So they take their time They take their time But also when you get pushback where people are trying to entrap him or get people to say that he said something out of school The doctor people are like no, he's fine. Like he's talked within those parameters. He just has to be careful to not Accidentally say something that is outside of those parameters and right now is a very sensitive time for that, you know immediately It's interesting. We met him in Huntsville, Alabama at a conference to the SCU conference. It's a UFO event. We went down there to interview somebody else To get him on camera and we have been told this guy might there's a guy might introduce himself and Jeremy was shooting video of me Sitting at a bar at the moment that this guy walked up and introduced himself So he had that moment on camera and then we got to know him a little bit a couple months later He comes out to Las Vegas. There was a Star Trek convention We were gonna speak at it and he comes out because he likes Star Trek I think everybody likes Star Trek comes out and spends two days with us the next day He flies back Sunday night Monday morning reports to work Armed security guards escort him out. He was suspended his clearance was suspended. We were worried Oh Christ was that was he seen in our company? That's what happened But that was the beginning of his first real big trial by fire They accused him of a bunch of stuff and said that they were gonna fire him and permanently suspend his clearance And was was he already discussing UFOs at that time? Not not with us But you yeah, you had already been investigating it on behalf of his of the UAP task force and he had shared information Through the whistleblower process with the Inspector General. Yeah, let me just break it down real simp. So here he is he gets this job He's looking at all these special access programs. He's a fucking brilliant guy. He's a physicist by the way, you know Like he's a brilliant guy in general So he discovers all this shit He starts getting reprisals and then the moment George is talking about I kind of had heard about him all of a sudden He comes up to him at this bar where we were at That's the first time that he talked to anybody outside of government now He didn't share anything he shouldn't but he's kind of coming to George and then to me to say I'm doing this whistleblower thing I am concerned for my safety and just in general for my career. He wanted a journalist or journalists to know Not to report on it. So imagine that we don't even break the story that we have before anybody, right? So what I did because I'm his harpoon I did a deep dive into this guy for months and months and months. He actually came to my home, you know Met my family like and I got to know him and I we vetted and vetted. Okay, this guy is who he says He is he's a hundred percent who he says he is So we kind of got that layer of trust. This is not some sham or something like that But then what happens is what George is talking about the second trip So I'm already talking at this Star Trek thing because my friend growing up from my jujitsu class was Rod Roddenberry So he's like the son of Gene Roddenberry So he's just like dude Jeremy come talk to a bunch of Trekkies about real UFOs and I'm like cool I'll do it. It's in Georgia's hometown So that was a great opportunity for Dave to come and meet with us again and just talk to us, right? Yeah, and then that Monday when he gets back He's walked out of the geospatial intelligence agency or NRO depending on which one you want to identify him with He's he's out man, and they did some bullshit on him like timecard like out of 12,000 billable hours Maybe there's like 30 hours somewhere where you didn't do it, right? They were doing anything they could to fuck with this guy. So that was our first like heads up Oh, dude, how this guy gets treated is gonna dictate everybody else that has come to us in private Saying I I think this is illegal what I'm doing, right? Among the complaints they issued to try to take away his security clearance was that he had mental health issues So he was suspended for a couple of months They did a background investigation of his allegations the allegations that have been made against him and they cleared him reinstated him reinstated a security clearance he stayed on the job for a couple more months and then retired because he sees the handwriting on the wall and he left and That's when he started Plotting the next chapter and now we're seeing the backlash process firing up once again after he testifies in front of Congress in that hearing and offers to tell them more in a classified setting and spill all the beans They they gotta find a media guy to go after this article in the intercept. Yes, he intercepted a smash piece By the way, we already knew all about Dave Gresham's Pete PTSD And at the time his best friend one of his dear friends just talk got off the phone with him blew his own brains out Right. So he was like drinking. He was in a bad place the first day day one I talked to him. I said what dirt are they gonna pull up on you? If what you're telling me is true, they're gonna get some dirt and he goes look man. I had PTSD. I dealt with it I survived it nothing horrible happened, but you know, he told us day one man that intercepting was some bullshit They come in and they they try to discredit what he said because of his PTSD shit and The thing is that happened to Lazar like if you believe or don't believe don't care that did happen to Lazar too where people try to discredit His character to try to minimize what he's telling you. Hmm So we saw that with Dave and that was only the visible stuff I'm telling you things behind the scenes that have been done to Dave and his family. It's disgusting Like not even just like pull your clearance kind of shit Like there are people that don't want him that he's an embarrassment, you know to the Department of Defense If what he's saying he's coming out of school and he's saying I saw some BS like they don't want that so we are in a pushback phase they not only the intelligence community and military folks tipped off a reporter and said go look for this and they found some police records aware he was drinking too much and was suicidal And and that was adjudicated. It was looked at the Department of Defense is his employers looked into it He'd gone through treatment. He got past it He was a better person a stronger person for it But they leaked that information to be smurge his character and now we see additional pushback in Congress So this committee that held this hearing into UFO UAP matters Was a subcommittee of national security of the oversight committee the larger committee Since that hearing happened The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee got together with the chairman of the Oversight Committee and decided no more UFO hearings in the house Enough of that bullshit. We're not doing that anymore because in their words, it could be an embarrassment to the Department of Defense Damn right of being embarrassment for what's going to come out I mean it was a big success, you know to have this this publicly done is the first time in history that we have direct witnesses like two pilots and then a whistleblower It was the first time in history We fought for every millimeter of that territory to get that to happen It was not received well by the intelligence community, you know, they did not like that that happened and that's pretty telling to me Do we should do it again? Now when Grush first found out about this stuff He was tasked with trying to uncover it his job It was his job and why did they like what was the suspicion like what was the initial impetus to get him? To look into this stuff. It's the suspicion We've had for a long time that there is a crash retrieval program that we have recovered Technology that is not made here that we're trying to reverse engineer it and figure out how it works so that we can duplicate it Right, but who who sent so there's a UAP task force So the UAP task force was formally created by Congress to look into the bigger picture And they expected that something was wrong. Yeah, Jay Stratton was the head of it. He'd been at the Defense Intelligence Agency He was with Naval Intelligence. He kept getting pulled back into the UFO arena from different jobs. Very credible guy He was in charge of the UAP task force He put together this amazing briefing document that in can't included Film and video and photos of UFOs that have been gathered by the US military over the past 30 years He'd give those presentations to Congress to the Joint Chiefs to defense contractors Because he wanted people to know about it and as part of that job He assigned Dave to look into special access programs Can you find evidence of crash retrievals reverse engineering any of that stuff? We've been hearing rumored for 30 40 years and this is really about oversight. Okay, so the way I understand it from people involved is That look we have to have oversight over these types of programs and technologies like it's good We're doing them. It's good. We keep it secret like that's their standpoint But they're like we have to have a process of oversight Do you remember the the church committee back in 60s was it 60s 70s? 70s so the church committee everybody in the intelligence agency that I know will say there's BC and AC before the church committee after the church committee it Basically was a way to level the playing field So there's not this type of you know shenanigans that are going on the fucked up shit. They learned from the church committee So what they're saying now is look some stuff needs to be kept secret for national security If we can turn some of this shit into weapon systems, right like we don't want we don't give out Blueprints to make an atom bomb we admit atom bombs are real, but we don't give out blueprints So some of it needs to be kept secret But they're all about oversight if you don't have communication between These subcontractors that are working on this exotic stuff if it exists We need to be aware of that at some level me meaning Senate and Senate Intelligence Committee all this stuff oversight So without that oversight You're just letting people run amok and go crazy with this stuff and I'll tell you first hand, right? There are people that have come to me and George that are currently employed in Agencies and they feel like they are being held hostage in these programs Like there's there's ways to keep people in programs and to not let them out by dangling this like well What are you gonna do if you lose your clearances? You're gonna go work at Home Depot You know, that's that's the way that that I've heard some people describe to me and George of why they're so terrified right now Is because their whole lives their wives their dogs their children are all dependent upon these little faction groups Kind of keeping them in a program if that's true That's fucking horrible and what just happened to Dave Grush the sliming of Dave Grush by this This really pretty poorly researched article is an example to all them Anybody out there is a whistleblower you're thinking of coming forward and spilling the beans this could happen to you Did you ever have an affair? Did you ever have an out of wedlock kid? Did you have a drug problem because whatever it is will find it and it'll come out It's interesting that they would use PTSD to discredit him for a war veteran. That seems insane You're shaming someone for seeking help from something that most soldiers come back and have to deal with That's really insane. It's low is what it is Well, it doesn't make sense either. It just doesn't make sense. Like how can you do that? It doesn't make sense in terms of the readers perception Because I think most readers are going to look at that and go well the guy came back from war and he sought help How many guys come back from war and they're fine? Isn't it? That's probably less and a lot we quite a bit less and a lot of people never get over And they take their lives the number of veterans that take their lives in this country is astonishing It's four times as many that die in combat. It's astonishing. It's terrifying. Thank you for vocalizing that because to me I'm like Fuck but does it so we well, that's just some fucking egghead writer who has an agenda, but it's also there's this natural Inclination that I think we all have to poke holes in something that seems fantastic. It's like This guy how what is he doing? He's he's coming out. He's a whistleblower. Has he seen these things? Oh, he just is a he works for the UAP task force and he's uncovering this like what what out What do we know about this guy? Oh, he's nuts. Oh, he has PTSD was suicidal. He's making things up He's unstable Instantly you could sort of dismiss and I understand if I was watching this in 2d reality And I'm just watching the TV and I'm seeing these weird guys behind here And I'm thinking this is a setup like I do see that and I do see that Why would you take this seriously? But if you're in our shoes mine and George's and you see this kind of go through and you talk with people on a daily Basis people come to you over years you vet them man look From where I'm standing in the 3d version of this. I Wish it was more organized. I feel like we're fighting like pushing that at what's that dude that pushes the boulder up the hill car They keep rolling down and you sis if yes some Greek. Yeah, that's what it feels like right like, you know One step forward two steps back. I think we made a lot of progress But I see how it looks so bizarre on the outside, but I will say for sure Davis who he says he is he had the job that he says he did have and he absolutely fundamentally believes that what he uncovered is non-human technologies and he said that and I believe that we have the right and the need to try to do discovery on that and the only way we're gonna do that is If people say we want to know And the hearings help with that kind of thing now This stuff I would imagine is very compartmentalized So I would also imagine there's probably some people in government that Whether it's because of their ego or whether it's because of whatever position they have that they need to have access to this information Or they want to have access to information Do we know? Who does and who doesn't? You want to go to the meat head, yeah Short answer is kinda like I you know, we kind of know, you know who has control of some of these programs now We've never George and I have never found somebody that knows the totality of it But we have been as he likes to say pretty high up the food chain So we get to a point where we get to people that have actively worked in what they call the legacy UFO program or programs so these are like the actual UFO programs that are not public and When we when we get to people in that position the brick wall for us is always this They're like I'm not for disclosure And I'm like, okay. Well tell me to stop then what do you mean? The the public you shouldn't kick a sleeping dog is one of the things we were told and I'm like, well what like what is so Freakin scary that the public would know something that even though we're friends now and you have direct knowledge that you first of all Won't testify to Congress. We got knows no way am I doing that? I'm like why there's something We keep getting up to that point where there's something and we don't know what it is And maybe it's just they want to keep golems ring They don't want anybody else to have control of the shit or there's something they're not telling us that is so gnarly That they don't think people can handle it There are you know different scenarios you could explore for example, you know, you ask what could be so terrible that they can't tell us about it Let's say these these aliens wherever they're from made us that were a genetic experiment That they created our religions our religious figures that we are an agricultural product that somehow they harvest us That our time is limited, you know that once the experiments over poof we go away I remember when there was a push back to have a design or universe intelligent design universe in the schools And I wrote a column about it just said hey be careful what you wish for because you might find out that the Intelligent designer isn't God that you're thinking of it might be some alien Science project or something like that You know that you can imagine a lot of different things that would be really disturbing to people to come out I don't know if that's the reason for the for the secrecy I suspect that has a lot more to do with national security us not wanting to Russians and Chinese to know how far down the road we are. We know that today true We've been told that you can't tell your friends without to telling your enemies. It's probably a multi-layered reason. Yeah Yeah, I just don't know the top layer. It's killing me. Well, it's interesting because how would they know the top layer? I mean what kind of confirmation would you have to have that we were genetically engineered like how how? How much data would you have to have before you accepted that? So you got compartmentalization you said right so I I know a guy in the 70s that was working at Lawrence Livermore laboratory He's not ready to break from the fold yet, right? He's not ready to do it But he was working on supercapacitors in the 70s or something and he said something like I know the three companies that make these He was given a device with no markings on it. No nothing and he was to reverse engineer it He's convinced this was not made by us It was so efficient almost a hundred percent efficient. So you get you get people like that What was it like a supercapacitor? Is that the word for a doctor superconductor? So it was just some device that he was as an electro kind of specialist was working on But this is just a one-off story to give you an example exactly as a super kind of dude. That's what Google's for Yeah, I wish for conductivity would allow the transfer of energy at like they're trying to get it at low temperatures Right means an electric current can flow but the electrons are jostled around a bit as they move so they lose energy as they travel This jostling is called electrical resistance and a superconductor There is zero resistance and an electrical current can flow perfectly smoothly without losing any energy that sounds right And so this is something that apparently So this was something that was just discussed like recently about a superconductor at room temperature. We're just kind of debunked Oh is it yeah, I believe it was thought on the news. Yeah, was it debunked? It's been debunked a couple of times. They keep turning. Yeah taking another stab at it. It's like Chinese propaganda or something No, I think these I think they couldn't replicate it or find out what it is. That's as far. I think that's exactly it Yeah, they couldn't replicate it right so check it out though What I can say is so I have two pieces of graphene and they're like these little squares and one is they're metamaterials Meaning meaning it doesn't occur in nature. We made them. I have two kinds two pieces One piece is a three degree variation from perfect atomic layering The other one is like a seven degree variation from perfect atomic layering So like graphite from a pencil I think and they layer the atoms perfect the one that's seven degree and the one that's three degree if you have an ice cube and I take the Seven degree of orientation off from perfect and I push it into an ice cube It's like a hot knife through butter It instantly gets cold and your finger gets cold and it stops in the ice right because it's transferring the heat I guess this is a superconductor. I think it pushes The heat from my fingers right in so that material has unique principles and properties because of the way they atomically layered it The three degree one it goes much deeper and faster because it's like it's like a faster Transaction of that heat so we've learned that metamaterials when we orient them We make them in a certain way. They have special or unique properties. So a lot of so back to this guy a Lot of what it seems like we're doing is trying to get derivative Technologies from something that's more advanced than what we have and they could be little things So he all he saw was a superconductor. Okay, I believe that's the right word That's all he saw. He only has suspicion It's never been put to market since the 70s. What the fuck he worked on one So that's one type of like I don't whistleblower or witness that we got but there are other types There are other people that are like physically working on the machines Then there's people that are just in a bureaucratic role Then you've got people like David Grush who do discovery on finances and programs and interview people This whole tapestry or mosaic of individuals leads me to feel That where there's smoke there's fire That all of this that there's something to it. It's just Where is it from? I think we're in kind of a pushback mode now though since that hearing that might have been the high watermark You know Jeremy and I've been talking about it publicly for a while the closer we get to the goodies The closer the public gets or Congress gets to actually seeing the saucers or finding out where the programs are The harder these guys are gonna push back the true keepers of the secrets have dug their feet in I mentioned about this House Chairman Intelligence Committee chairman he represents right Patterson airbase that he gets a lot of campaign donations from big aerospace companies Right Patterson, of course home of hangar 18 and all the rumors about Roswell wreckage and other things being stored there. That's his district. He's the guy that said no more hearings Representative Turner Turner Mike Turner, so he's he kind of put the kibosh on it Hmm claims China is a bigger threat to us than aliens. Okay. Well, that's probably true. I mean They're probably doing a lot of stuff Yeah, I would say that's probably remember the American computer company You know, you know that story the American computer company I'm pretty sure that's the name of the company American computer company had a whole section on their website about the back engineering of technology that came about from the Roswell crash and about how Bell Laboratories in New Jersey had an Air Force base right outside of it that was supposedly to protect New York City They're like but the problem is New York City's you got to fly over to New York City Like it seems like it's protecting Bell Laboratories and Bell Laboratories is where he said that they back engineered all this shit Including fiber optics including like the discovery of a bunch of different things that came out Supposedly of back engineering that wreckage so you can find that I mean, I hope that's true, dude I hope that if we have this it this is The accuracy of what Colonel Phil Corso is the guy the truth is out there and so are the cranks 2000 yeah, it was a lot is the company any Existing I don't think so, but this is Okay, don't believe everything you read online American computer company that secret alien research have been around for four years Jack Shulman owner of American computer company now operating as comp America calm post the distory his website He claimed that Bell telephone laboratories had stolen the idea for the silicone chip from the alien spacecraft that supposedly crashed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 prior to Bell's announcement that year that John Bardeen Walter Brad Tain and William Shockley had invented the transistor Computing had depended on vacuum tubes. So why is it that 50 years on we can't use the aliens technology to violate the theory of relativity To travel beyond lights people. That's a big jump It seems that a cartel of technology companies and oil producers have colluded to prevent the development of high-speed chips Mr. Shulman posts his theories at Roswell internet.com where he also claims to invented PCs and Windows and To be working on a chip Seems weird working on a chip that will run at 12 terahertz a thousand times the speeds of today's fastest CPUs One way you can guess the veracity of web rumor is the writers typing style of an author Randomly switches to uppercase for effect then he's probably a crank That's the one thing I could really find just right now that's a fucking half-hearted Attempt to dispute what he said. There's a guy named Phil Corso who was an army colonel He worked in this technology office in the Pentagon and he's the guy who came out with a book on the 50th anniversary of Roswell He said I saw that stuff We had it in a in a couple of file cabinets and he personally took it to Bell Labs claims to have given them the chips That inspired the later work You know a lot of people don't find him credible that he takes too much credit for doing all kinds of other things in history but I met him before he his book came out years ago and Bigelow and help put off and those guys went back to see him and Jacques ballet and they thought he was credible They didn't necessarily believe everything he said but it goes right along lines of what you're saying there And so what did he describe that he saw in term in those file? He said fiber optics computer chips among other things. I think he said Night-vision was inspired by something. They got out of those chips. I mean are those ships I Have no idea. You know, it's like it would be so cool to it would be so cool if we had success in Derivative technologies and they were in our hands. I think I would like to believe we were more responsible with that shit I know for a fact that and George can attest to this that the UFO topic is Taken at the level of above weapons of mass destruction Within our government within government agencies like they take it that seriously So that is not a throwaway statement. I'm telling you I know that and George can attest to it, right? So here's the deal, man. If that's true Then I do understand the perspective Whoever gets the technology first wins, but my understanding is that we have not been able to duplicate the core technologies And and if that's true because it's so far ahead of what we've got What we can do is kind of like get derivative technologies All you have to know is what what the legislation that was put into the National Defense Authorization Act I know that's not a word that normal people gonna Understand or hear about often, but I've become educated on it. So the National Defense Authorization Act of 2024 it ends up being signed hopefully by Biden any president has to sign it and also the Intelligence Authorization Act so the language that they put into these is all people need to know because they wouldn't Fabricate this out of thin air and they wouldn't spend resources on creating this language If they didn't have more than a good suspicion that we have this kind of tech and that we're trying to reverse engineer it It's online. Anybody can look at Schumer. I think put out a big Bill and then there was an amendment to it. And if you read this language, they're like Any of these non-terrestrial craft, I mean they are so thorough They're like if they're being hidden in private technology, we're cutting off your funding So they've got a carrot and a stick approach. I've talked to some of the people that formed this language, right? So what they're saying is the carrot is if you come forward within I think 90 days once it's signed and you tell us that you have Technologies that are not from here Then there'll be no penalty to you if you don't tell us Your funding is cut. We're gonna find out your funding is cut So it's like a carrot and a stick kind of thing if you read this language It's it's it's almost insane to read Because they know that there are these programs now where the craft or things that they're working on are from You know, how do we how do we even get there to know that? I don't know but but they do know that we have this shit these craft of unknown origin They use the term non-human intelligence in that legislation 26 times. I mean, it's astonishing There's this Senate majority leaders Chuck Schumer standing up there in a nod to his late mentor Harry Reid saying we're gonna get to the bottom of this stuff and it's real and he acknowledges that that legislation was crafted with the White House's Cooperation so it's the Biden administration somebody in that administration signed off on this. It's astonishing People don't like it though Like if you're in the IC and you've got these like secret, you know programs or if you're like, let's say with Lockheed Let's say you're Lockheed and you got some really cool thing They might be looking to move it now because I don't think they're really worried about funding being cut off I think a lot of these black programs can be fun funded asymmetrically like in different ways than getting money right from Congress But I'll tell you that language tells you everything because it shows you that they are taking it so seriously that they have some sort of Pre-knowledge that these programs exist. In fact, they probably know where these objects are being stored Now you said some number, you know, you and I might talk to similar people But definitely that numbers, you know floated around I have no idea if that's the correct number I just know that they have been told where these holding facilities are They have been told all they got to do is get the authority to go knock on that door and go inside What is the explanation of how we acquired these crafts? There's crash retrieval, but then there's also ones that are intact Remember Lazar said that Nearly all of the ones that he saw except for one that had a big hole in the middle of it all looked intact It was this if they were dug up at our archaeological sites or there were gifts like Throwing a cell phone into a chimpanzee cage. Here you go crazy humans knock yourself out Let's see how you do with this that they're just left there for us to find and as a challenge to us Yeah, I have the same problem as you like I'm gonna be motherfuckers not crashing if they're coming from somewhere else They're not crashing right, but people will say to me look man We have air Plane problems and sometimes even planes crash and maybe there's other circumstances Where these things could have crashed because they were hit with some technology Maybe two of them were dog fighting electrical storms. I don't know. I don't know I was a Virginia Brazil story, right? intellectual storm So radar some people suspect that really powerful radar can an interview right because some of the radars are also weaponry That's the thing like you can have energy Reception but also output on something. So there's some cool devices that actually shoot like high high laser weaponry But my thing is I don't know if they really crashed George is kind of edging towards maybe archaeological digs maybe gifts Lazar said that one of them supposedly was from an archaeological dig, right? Yeah, do they know where He would know no He was just literally that's one of the many things that they tried to impose upon him But remember they tried to impose a lot of shit on Lazar He is so succinct with this is what I know to be real. I had hands on this now They told him a whole bunch of crazy shit You know what do just the quick like I should put that shit out I'm just crazy like we are we are viewed by the aliens as containers of souls I mean, you're not gonna tell a guy working on propulsion that so he had he had it He was able to sit down for a brief time and go through a document like a huge briefing document in there He saw what they said where it was a bio Biological biopsy of an alien like he was just he didn't care He was going to the propulsion part, but they told him so much wild stuff He's like this has to be a joke But then when he said he differentiates he goes but when I you can't fake he said what I saw you can't fake Your hands trying to get close to the reactor and not being able to touch it You can't fake something that big lifting like that So he says I know for sure what I worked on was not from here, but he goes everything else They told me it was words on paper And I respect that about him and maybe they wanted him to leak it to John Lear Remember he's like friends with this guy John Lear who's like already on their radar the best photo of area 51 from Lake level ever Was 1977 the year I was born John. There's kicking it out there stirring up shit at every fit when taking photos So he does a whole panoramic of photos of area 51 sees a truck coming from a distance Being John Lear takes the role puts it under his ashtray puts in new film snaps it again They confiscate his his film, but he had some underneath his cigarette lighter Whatever and he actually gave those to me so I got the best shot of area 51 you'll ever see from Lake level Was by John Lear now Bob knew John That's where all the conspiracies come in because John's like this UFO nut the godfather of conspiracy But when I was Bob meet John Well, this is your turf. Yeah true a guy named Jean Huff who was a post exposure post He met him before he worked out there there's a guy named Jean Huff who did a real estate appraisal for John Lear his house and Jean was friends with Bob and they Jean and Lear struck up a conversation brought Bob into the to meet him and It was only after that that Lazar got hired out there He would have arguments with Lear about this crazy UFO stuff Because I'd already done a couple of interview interviews with him in the in the late 80s with Lear with Lear before I met Lazar Lazar was not a believer. He said I don't believe it poor John. He's crazy with this UFO stuff So this is fact and it's so funny like knowing all these guys I wasn't there like he was but I get to talk with everybody grill him The what I think it was Jim Goodall that was in the car with him. He remembers Bob saying Poor John Lear and Jim Goodall is like why and he's like cuz he believes this UFO nonsense So that was where Lazar was at prior to getting the job out at the test site Is he didn't believe any of this nonsense? In fact so much so that remember I think he told you when he first went in They had a little decal of an American flag on the saucer and he thought all those idiots everybody thought UFOs were from outer space in their hours, you know, right and and then he quickly realized Wait a second that mmm, you know, this isn't this camp yours It's fascinating to see now that Dave Grush has come forward and give some credence to we have reverse engineering programs We have a crash retrieval program Aerospace companies are stashing this stuff and some hangers somewhere all the stuff that Lazar had said is being true They now say oh gosh, I guess it is true. But that Lazar he's still a liar We don't believe him, you know, you have to kind of do some mental gymnastics to do that. Yeah It's just fascinating when you see these crafts move exactly the way that he described them in 1989. Yeah Straight up. It's pretty wild because you're seeing footage from like what is it? 2014 or something. Yeah, they're gimbal. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like it moved exactly like he described turns on its side shoots off so so that's a common thing is Bob Lazar must be the luckiest con man on planet earth to get so much shit right Over all these years What's the controlled disclosure campaign plan? What is this from this is listed at the bottom of that document? They're talking about the NDAA for 2024 and this is the UAP section. I'm gonna read through controlled disclosure campaign with respect to unidentified anomalous phenomena Recorded records originated prior to review board termination. It's just review board I'm not sure what this is talks about all the like they get all of this information and you better give it to them as sort of what it's they want to Set up a review board that would basically declassify stuff that they come across Yeah, but I'm being told by people involved that that's not good enough. Like this is one step which is to get this Presidential review board and you get a bunch of Sociologists and scientists and some Nobel Prize winners and you look at what can be declassified for the American public in a controlled way And that's really nice. They're doing it But everybody on the inside that I know is like we need a church style committee It's not okay to just have a disclosure panel. You need Oversight and to get that oversight we need access The only way that we're gonna get that is by forcing sent like where's where are all the senators in all this? We did this hearing with all these congresspeople Where are all the senators? Listening to the public being like, okay, i'm gonna get after that They're the only ones with the power to create a church style committee. Where are the senators right now? And so That's really this language is so important I hope people go look it up and they read it because it's just Astonishing when you hear what they're actually doing and I think it's a good step I find this one a little weird too the exercise of eminent domain Yeah, they can go and take anything from anyone who's got anything Federal governments shall exercise eminent domain over any and all recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological evidence of non-human intelligence That may be controlled by private persons or entities in the interest of the public good Wow, yeah, dude, the fact that that is in that paper is crazy So it's not passed yet So that that's what so they're going to debate this when they get back from what they call it recess now So it's really good that everybody hears this this is going to be debated by your representatives This needs to pass or or we're screwed. This has to pass And then the president has to sign it it's important too You got to figure that if say Lockheed or one of these big aerospace companies really does have this stuff. It's incredibly valuable I mean it would be worth untold millions of dollars the technology that could To change the world forever So they don't want to give it up If if not, just for national security reasons and because of the value of it monetary value So this would change that and take it. I mean, I guess you could apply to element 115 if there's a piece of that laying around somewhere I don't know. I mean actually they did say private or corporate kind of so it's like basically so I I am of two emotions about this one is like So the government just to come gets to come in and take everything like that feels a little weird But but but I do believe that the spirit of this is to get to the core of of the question Have we been reverse engineering? Technology not from here and if we have been there needs to be oversight So I'm I am for this but this is not going to help the american and global public learn more And that's the thing we have to remember. That's why grush can't talk unless he's in a skiff with people with access These people are not for what george and I are for with which is that we need to know the truth about this I want to i'm greedy with the truth about this but This is not going to tell the american public the truth what it's going to do is within the intelligence communities It's going to inform everybody on a bigger scale, which means we could have better scientists on it We could have better people working on it I do hope that splashes over To the public that we get to learn more about this because I want to learn more about it Of course who doesn't yeah, it's uh, it's just wild seeing that language Yeah, it just does not seem like they would put something like that in there unless they knew something Yeah, exactly. This is chuck schumer senate majority leader who got up. He didn't just slip it into the bill He made a big deal about it. He made an announcement a speech on the floor And emphasize that you know having that non-human intelligence in that bill 26 times Is astonishing and the fact that he says the white house supported it shows how far we've come in in a short period of time I mean I would I'd never saw that coming from schumer We knew that marco rubio and kirsten jillibrand in the senate were we're into this issue But did not see it from him. Where are they now? Right now why is it being so damn quiet? You know the thing is they need to fight in order for us. We need one last time We need like a in my opinion We need like a church style committee where we get more information to the public because I want the public to know as much as they can Don't you think they're probably quiet until more information comes out? Like they're just kind of like waiting to see what what becomes of this who's waiting like the senate. Yeah, um, dude The thing is is that if I had a political career and a hundred things that i'm dealing with the public needs to tell our Representatives what we want them to do. So are they kind of sitting back and being quiet? Maybe I know rubio came out and said look They're so careful of saying what they don't know and I appreciate that But but he's like look I have been testified to or people have come to me and are groups And they've said that they're worried about their own well-being that they have worked on these directly worked on these things So he is being informed and maybe they're being a little quiet But now is the time for them to pass this through they have to debate it And go for it, man. This is a big opportunity that we have now to get closer to this truth It might happen. It might not The fascinating answer was the guy saying that it's not in the public good for this to get at God I wish I wondered I wish I knew rather what that meant Because the the big speculation there's a bunch of big speculations But the big one has always been that we were genetically engineered I mean that's something that zacharias hitchin talked about and you know when you Describing the samarian texts and those uh ancient clay tablets that show this very large strange looking humanoid with a Humanoid on his lap that has a tail That's very bizarre. It's like childhood zenta. Have you read that book arthur c clark? No, so how they acclimate the human society if I remember the book properly is they have all these mother ships Just hover all over the earth And they sit there for generations acclimating people to them because the et's or whatever they've got a problem The problem is they look like the fucking devil like for That was the book. I don't mean to give it away for people. It was so crazy. Oh, that's amazing So speculating right now just speculating Because it's driving me crazy What do you think? If this is true, we're just saying if this is true if we're being visited by something. Yeah, what could be so powerfully Devastating that these keepers of the secrets Have literally all of them pretty much stopped at the same place and talking to me and george Which is like I am not for disclosure on this There's something they're not telling us that is so Heavy Well, it could be a bunch of things right? It could be the fact that they do want to get control the technology before Enemies do that makes sense But it also could be the genetic engineering thing because there's a weird thing with human beings and lower primates The lower primates are all still around You know and there was a bunch of different kinds of humans that didn't make it, you know Neanderthal and denisovan and there's a bunch of other ones that they keep discovering new ones But god, there's a giant leap between us and the other primates a weird one Real weird we vary so wildly in terms of how we look We vary so wildly in the environments that we can live in We have hyper intelligence in comparison to everything else that's on the planet like giant leaps above in terms of our ability to manipulate our environment we're not like anything else and you know The thing about when you look at us and you look at primates you go, oh, yeah, we're similar You know when you look at us and you look at chimps you look at, you know bonobos and stuff Yeah, I guess humans are kind of similar to those and a little bit like you've watched chimp empire that show on netflix. Yeah, but boy Big fucking difference and they're still around. They're still around looking exactly the same and We somehow another advance to this very bizarre thing that flies around in metal tubes all over the planet and sends video through this through space But we're so much different than them And you know, they are ancient ancient ancestors, right? They're ancient cousins like what happened? Would people freak out if that that story came in? Well, I think it would really throw a monkey wrench into religion for sure it'd have to read I think religion would probably adapt And you know that this was also created by god and these are messengers of god or something like that Probably come up with some sort of if that turned out to be absolutely true But you know the the doubling of the human brain size over a period of two million years The biggest mystery in the entire fossil record apparently and they they don't know there's a bunch of speculation A lot of like questions and guesses and you know different things that we could have done that could have facilitated that but That's a big one, man. That's a weird one. It's weird a question about that, right? So this is something i'm struggling with like could you tell the general public? That the base understanding You know that we're not alone that there's some craft from somewhere else We don't we don't have to say from where we don't know. Could you tell them? Could you say that to the public officially in some way? and and still avoid what they call strategic surprise like this idea that Like we we can work on it and work on it really well and make sure that we don't get strategically surprised by another nation You could keep your security in place Could you do all of that? If you let the one thing out the box if it was officially acknowledged that we're not alone or do you think people would just start? Going crazy for more answers because I think that's the the fear of people. They can't just say one thing. I think In today's day and age with the news cycle that we have now where things are just in the public eye out of instantaneously nothing sticks Everything keeps moving. There's scandals and wars constantly. I don't think it would register. I think people would have to have actual physical encounters with UFOs before it really made sense to them because I think right now it's just this idea It's in the air. It's vapor. It's just like you could talk about it If you like you could read about it if you like you can watch blurry videos if you'd like But it doesn't have any weight in your real world Now if we start seeing them, you know if they're like hovering over los angeles and they're indescribable and they rock it off into insane speeds and smaller crafts come out of the mothership and If that kind of shit happens That that would get real weird that would get real weird real quick and that could lead to chaos That could absolutely lead to chaos. And if we somehow or another had proof that you know maybe we are some sort of a science project or some product of genetic engineering or maybe the The human farm thing is real that they they literally created us to try to get us to do things here or to try to recreate souls Which is like a very bizarre thought, you know that the soul is a thing that We carry on And that there's some sort of value to having so many souls. That's like this is old school This is my gateway drug into ufos was john leer and first time I sit down with him, you know He's like got this big cigar and he's looking at me and he's like we're all property We're property, you know, what the fuck are you talking about? And he and he was talking about how? The aliens saw us as kind of like a wine and our bodies are containers And our souls are being matured as like a commodity You know for these like he was he was a wild dude Like i'm not saying I believe any of this i'm just saying he gave me That idea day and he said matured like is a soul of an intelligent person more valuable than the soul of a dummy I wish we could ask jar here, but he's dead. You know what i'm saying? Like what like what? What does that mean in terms of like? aging our souls maturing our souls maybe through experience, you know, like hardship experience love joy that maybe I'm just talking crazy right now, but this is something I can do the john leer John would say every experience you have in life is what makes your soul mature From your joy and your love to your hate and your anger live without envy hate or greed. That's my john leer He was a much sense If your soul is ultimately a representation of who you are and how you stand in life It would it would make sense that that would be Fortified by your life experiences and it would make it stronger like like everything else, you know Like your life experiences make you wiser wouldn't if the soul's a real thing You know the more value you put into the world the the better you behave the nicer you are the more you Learn to be honest and truthful all the different things that we hold up as high qualities for human beings Would make them a second it would make sense that that would like enrich your soul And just getting better in life, right? Like if for you 20 years ago and and you today we all hope that we look at our past self and we say We've learned something sure we become a better person become more loving empathetic better and more creative at Presenting ourselves into the world and making a difference. So that that's a cool way to look at like that was his cosmology. Hmm That's uh, I mean, it's a fascinating idea But what's terrifying is that if we're a commodity then, you know We're like beef cows that are eating all the grass that we want Because it's valuable for them to get fat You know that the the chaos on this on this planet is actually engineered to ensure more rich souls You guys should talk about that. Yeah, he likes I know some people that that have been pretty far up the food chain that believe that That that there is mass manipulation of human affairs, uh on a global scale For a reason that we can't understand and mass manipulation by humans or non-humans non-humans Manipulating humans by non-humans to do things that they want us to do There are some kind of things war for example, really there's a What's it called the gods of eden a guy named william bramble an attorney sets out to write a book about the causes of war And everywhere he goes in throughout human history. He finds evidence of some kind of a exterior manipulation of human affairs that they Somehow benefit from us killing each other on a massive scale. William bramble gods of eden and what? What is the speculation like what could it be that they would been how would they benefit? Maybe it's souls maybe releasing souls that that they can Recycle them. I I don't know It's been 25 years since I read that book, but it's worth a read I I look back at the earlier this this year. We had three ufos I'm using air quotes shot out of the sky by the u.s. Military. That's the story that gets printed in newspapers U.s. Military shoots down three ufos one of them being a chinese balloon or whatever the other ones were But you know the public paid attention for what two three days and then it's like, uh, hey When's that new uh barbie movie coming out, you know and just moved right along from it? Um, yeah, that's that news cycle. It's pretty wild, but it's also again You can only hear about ufos for so I mean and i'm a nut obviously I'm obviously ufo nut we're friends here. Yeah I could only hear about it for so long Before i'm going I need something. Yeah, I need to see something show me some metal show me some hardware show me a fucking frozen beings something it just You know fatigue, bro. Yeah. Yeah, it is. You got it too. I hear it all the time Hear it all the time. I mean when you know, don't tell me anymore I don't want to hear about any whistleblowers or hearings until you show me the flying saucer and the dead alien bodies Yeah, yeah, we get that all the time. We got to keep going. Of course, we do have to keep going Well, I mean you guys I mean george when did you first break the lazar story? Was that was that 89 89 and when you broke that story? Was that your introduction to this world or had you already had a curiosity? I had done some stuff starting in 87 It was john leer. John leer walked in the station with a stack of documents He had helped us break the story of this secret plane out in the nevada desert that was invisible to radar stealth fighter and so he had some credibility with us and he plopped those documents on the desk of my Managing editor and my buddy and mentor ned day ned. This is your next big story. It's a biggest story in history Here you go. Ned looks at a couple of pages shoves the plow back across to leer and said this can't be true If it was true, i'd already know about it, you know, it was kind of cocky like many of us are And uh, so before leer left the newsroom. I said, let me take a look at that stuff So he gave me all these documents most of it was stuff from freedom of admiration act You know these agencies like the fbi and cia Before foya was the law of the land would deny that they ever did any studies that had any interest whatsoever in ufos Then when that was signed into law in the mid 70s They had to release thousands and thousands of pages that showed they've been lying through their teeth that they had been studying it All these pages of information of studies and experts and panels and all kinds of things like that. So Lear gave me that stuff and that's how I got hooked is The paper trail that established that our military our intelligence agencies were telling the public one thing Don't worry your pretty little heads pay attention move along nothing to see here, but behind the scenes they took it very seriously They were very concerned about where these things were from and how this technology works and the fact that they can't do anything about it So that's how I got hooked in 87. I started reading about it and then uh meeting lazar in 89 almost by chance Um and realized all right. Look i'm going to report on this I got to really dig in and learn everything I can And I was cocky enough to think well, give me six months. I'll have this whole thing figured out, you know, that was 36 years ago Wow, it's got to be crazy to see it now in front of congress I I had a moment I did I did I had a moment I just kind of had to bow my head there when it came over me after all this time Seeing what was happening unfolding in front of me. I just never thought I would see it and uh And what was really amazing is the the partisan divide was gone suddenly There's a there is an issue that the two sides far left far right can agree on there's aoc And jamie raskin on one side of the room and there's tim birchit and matt gates on the other And they're all asking questions and it's not just questions prepared by staff. They're doing follow-ups. They're they're into it They're they're into it Um, it was amazing. It was just absolutely amazing to see it Have you heard any speculation as to why they want to hide the information? Have you heard anyone that says that this is why yes so to the best of my knowledge directly to me so many times that I can't count is um, Strategic surprise that we have to be Ahead on this that we know that uh, russia has a ufo exploitation program reverse engineering We know china has one like if these were theirs like they wouldn't be having these huge programs They've actually announced and bragged about in china. So it's strategic surprise Whatever we can derive from these technologies. We know that it can be weaponized We know that it is so powerful just by the propulsion systems alone how they move They suspect it's gravitational just like lazar said the top dogs that that we know that have worked on this problem Set for our government believe by observation that these propulsion technologies are gravitationally based With that said it goes back to lazar. We can't produce gravity But what if there it was he said something that produces gravity? So if that is true Then they know That just even the laser weaponry technology that a colleague of mine and george like actually did study for our government I don't know how far I can go on that one, but that's that's true that the people are looking at unknown Technologies and exploiting them for laser technology. That is that is fact factual stuff. He'll tell you more about it later so If we get left in the dust Everybody believes we're ahead right now in the secret little reverse engineering. Why do they believe we're ahead? Well, maybe it's hubris. I hope we're ahead everybody that I know and everybody that george knows believes that right now We are still ahead on these reverse engineering programs. So let's let's just couch this let's say let's believe it for a second Okay, we're reverse engineering UFOs. Okay, it has been conveyed to us in the Most direct sense that we believe we are ahead right now But the way china works they could quickly get a quick advantage because they don't have the same restrictions that we have They can control every piece of that program. No questions asked We can't quite do that So there's a fear that we're going to be left in the dust at some point and we'll have what they call strategic surprise. So That is a good reason that I understand that people want to keep this shit under wraps right now I I don't believe that if people if they said look You've been seeing them all through human history We're now capturing them on multitudes of corroborative visual types of evidence from thermal to radar That's the big deal about what george and I released about the 2019 swarms. It's corroborative visual evidence, right? Now that we have all these sensors that are so cool. Just tell people Whatever we're not alone. Whatever whoever these are from maybe we don't know I don't know that that's going to go over so well But I I feel like we should tell people that if we find out it to be true So most of the reason why they're withholding the information is not worried about the collapse of society. It's worried about Having control of this technology. I believe so. There's no way you can separate national security issues from this We the last time I was here joe we talked about nuclear incidents where ufo's appear over nuclear missile facilities missile bases They disable those missiles that's happened in our country. It's happened in russia. I don't know if it's happened in china, but it's real You could neutralize the entire nuclear arsenal With one of these machines now that's real national security It's so interesting that our government says, you know dismisses project blue book because there's no threat to national security and yet It clearly has national security implications if they can control our nuclear weapons The the friends of mine as far up the food chain as i've gone have said this You can't tell your friends without telling your enemies You can't tell part of this story because no one would ever be satisfied with part of it. You can't be half like pregnant, you know So it's national national security and I I can get with that like I get that I am for I I I Understand that explanation. There's just a step further that i'm not understanding yet Yeah, but I understand the national security mean by step further like what we're talking about before like What is it that's so devastating because we get to that point with people sometimes and what is it that's so devastating? Like they're okay with us reporting on stuff like as friends like they're like, you know, i'm not going to inhibit you in any way George and I are in a weird position So of course people are always trying to trick us All the time every day like major good tricks. They would love us to fuck up like cgi video Sure, like, you know how you send me stuff sometimes What is that? I'm trying to think about it So imagine that on like a much deeper level like trusted people that come to you with stuff and you just know It's a fucking trap, right? So i've been in that position numerous times now check this out. I think it's cool to say um, we have totally been warned man that As journalists, we are doing what is good for the public so we can obtain and release things like The bagdad phantom the mozo orb like a bunch of these so people leak stuff to me and george And as journalists, we have to look at it and be like does this endanger national security? Because these are from military platforms So if it does, you know, we do our best with like lawyers and everybody We try to make sure we don't fuck up right and everybody knows we're patriots. We're cool, right? But he and I have been told Numerous times the biggest worry they have is a foreign intelligence agency Getting their hands on some of the weird madness that comes our way that we haven't been Able to vet yet or to make sure for national security that it's okay So people are cool with us as journalists in america reporting for the good of our country But there is a real worry that other agencies Outside of the us might get some things that we haven't vetted yet properly. Did I explain that? Okay Yeah, i'll just add this is that we were told earlier this year and in fact the department of defense spokesperson announced it There is a department of justice investigation into two of the images that we made public this year That's kind of unsettling when you realize that there was a criminal investigation to figure out not not necessarily us Yeah, at least how did it get into our hands? And what was this image? Well, there's a number. I mean so in in 2019 there was a swarm of ufos over 10 navy warships George and I opposed the pyramids so whatever shape they were don't even care check this out And this is the bigger point in 2019 this thing happened george and I obtained and released footage that footage was radar footage Thermal footage infrared footage and deck camera like normal video footage People were missing the point It's the first time in history that you have military footage On four different types of platforms or four different types of optics Corroborative visual evidence that go with the stories. It's like david commander fraber if he told you he saw the tick tack That's one thing But you also got a video from commander chat underwood because he went up and filmed it What we provided was four types of corroborative visual evidence Over a warning area in a training zone, which we should talk about So that type of of now we we have so much evidence to that in 2019 that swarm so imagine if you're the do d And george and I say by the way, we're running a story and here's some footage Do you want to comment on it? And they're like we didn't have some of this footage I'm like what like, how did you not have your own footage? So that's already put us in a weird position with the pentagon and the do d they didn't how do reporters Get more information than they that they have on their own. Did they demand your sources? They can't do that They would never do that. This is journalism in america. Come at me with that. They'd like to know They certainly like to know but but that is a good job like just to be clear for everybody That's an important job Is to plug leaks So if somebody's going out with national security things like and selling them to russia or to china, oh, fuck Yeah, so they got a really important job. I wish them well on their job But as journalists in america we can report on this stuff and as long as we don't hurt national security We can report on this. Can you tell everybody the basics of that one particular sighting? Yes, happy to Cool start with the Omaha. Okay So do you want me to do it? Yeah, sure. Okay, so 2019 there was a series of ufo swarms over 10 navy warships, but it was simultaneous So at any given time around one ship there's anywhere from Six to fourteen i'd say of these just say unknown units, right? So they appear like lights But when you use thermal you can see that they're kind of egg shaped and it and minimum size is 14 feet They weren't small, right? So the question is from our military so from the Omaha the people fighting the ship they're like the heck is this right? So they start um filming it getting them on radar All this stuff. Didn't they behaving so they weren't doing extreme movements But I have been able to contact some of the helo pilots, right? And these things were self-luminous They were illuminated and they actually were going into the water if not out from the water I know for sure they were going into the water. That's called trans medium We talked about that on one of our first podcasts together So all we know let's just call them We don't know who they're from but there's these objects that are doing this ballet around 10 navy warships at one time and no One's taking claim for them. So the people on the ships their job is to fight the ship now They didn't feel under threat. So like on the uss Omaha when they're seeing all this There's this they called the triangle of kinetic action like when you would fire on it, right? And it's like intent opportunity and capability you have to fulfill that triangle to be like, oh i'm gonna blast that shit Right. The thing is that that triangle wasn't fully fulfilled because they didn't really know the intent weren't sure of the capability or opportunity So they're kind of just observing these things. However, I do know on multiple ships They applied what they call the ghostbuster, which is like an electromagnetic like Uh package that can down drones, but these were not like dji drones. These were like big objects So they were moving in this like ballet, but remember all the ships can communicate So now all these years later, I have people on every level of that of those ships telling me this is my experience This is what we saw they would go around so there's about a hundred plus in the air at one time Who's were they our own government still says we don't know whose they were and i'll tell you this That is not uncommon. This is the craziest thing over the last few years that george and I have have gotten more testimony There was a swarm off the coast of japan in 2021 Where the ship was 300 miles? From any other ship or landmass? And these things were coming from the west and the only thing over there is way is hawaii, right? No landing no launch point So that also by the way, i'm not going to say that one there there's swarms on the east coast as well The point is this happens more than people think now. Is that an increased frequency? Are we seeing an increased frequency in ufo's right now, right? It's an interesting question because what we do know is we have better technology to set to sense them Right and to record them. So are we just seeing more of them because our sensors are better? Why always in training ranges? Well, that's bullshit. It's not always in training ranges The reason you know about it is because of leaks and people bringing out footage. We have the best sensors on these ships In the world. So we just hear about it more on these training ranges uss, omaha So this thing was 14 feet round Spherical looking thing that followed the ship for an hour. They watched it on thermal for an hour. They had it on radar There were several of them up to 14 at the time now What what is big and round and travels now these ships are a hundred miles out offshore At night off the west coast and these things are floating right along with them. Is that a balloon? There's no tail There's no rotor. They don't know how the hell it was flying. There's no exhaust They don't know how it was propelled at all and there was a bunch of them and they got it on this were they moving It's not top top speed wasn't matter. It was the so not like super impressive, but they don't know my buddy Somebody said to me i'm gonna really regret saying this to jeremy It's like they just appeared and he really hated saying that to me because Their job is to know where these came from where they're going where they launch where they land So these things would come up. So we know they would go into the water. I The sentiment is they were coming also from the water But the thing is is that they were unable to down them with you know, these electromagnetic packages Um, there were so many of them they they're that big. Where did they land? Where did they launch and so there was a fake news story put up in new york post. They said case solved It was some new york post 2019 swarm says case solved These were there was a there was a chinese Cargo ship called the bass straight So if you go to wikipedia even they say it was the bass straight was landing and launching drones, right? Well, hold on The bass straight didn't have the deck capability to to land or launch up to 100 plus of these 14 foot or larger objects additionally the bass straight was in port In long beach while this activity was happening And we know people that boarded the ship on behalf of our federal government to look to see if they were part of the fuckery Right, and then we got somebody that came to me that says my one job that night Was to make sure that nothing was landing or launching off the bass straight because I wish I could say That we did catch the culprits whoever launched all these and he says I can't report that to you We didn't I watched the whole time but the new york post put out this fake story that the mystery was solved Why do you think they did that? It's a great question debunking, you know typical debunking It's chinese drones a hundred miles out the sea at night. You don't see where they were launched from You don't see where they went to uh, there's no ship out there that that could be a launch Um platform for it. Where the hell they come from? Uh, it's an easy way to just dismiss it But the the facts don't fit it. What's the best footage? That we can look at like the total best footage of that event series The one that's real famous is the black and white one. Um, it's it's the uss. Omaha thermal. I know I put it on Uh extraordinary beliefs there we go. There it is. So this is the one that went into the water. Yeah Yeah, they believe it went into the water this particular one. But remember there's 14 Rolling right now at this time at this exact second. There's 14 of them swarming the the ship So this is just they have what is this? What are they locked on? So this is thermal So you should see plumes of heat you should see rotor wash. You should see wings You should see something that allows us to propel The shape you're seeing is the is the thermal signature But they also believe that to be the actual signature or or shape of it there and it blinks out So some so they said splash splash in the video when you release it, but that doesn't mean it splashed into the water Um, like there was no splash. It was just like they believed it went into the water They actually sent this is not public, but I know it to be true They sent a submarine to try to look for any wreckage of this thing Uh, nothing. So imagine a hundred of these Let's let's say I thought about this the other day. What if they were kamikaze drones, right? Okay, that's something but the problem is they weren't Um, they they don't where did they launch from and also where's the wreckage or if they're kamikazes it find it So it's okay. So this is a real problem for the people fighting the ships They feel that they failed in their duties because they weren't given the right opportunities to investigate and engage and um It happens more regularly than our navy would like to admit that there are unknown objects in the south china sea Out by japan off the east coast and as recently i'll say as uh this year What was the video or was it just photographic of the triangles in the sky? So that's a big Topic of debate right? So that was from the uss russell. So on the uss russell Let's say I have one person that comes to me. That's these things right? So the the common wisdom Is that they were oh dude. Thank you actually for this opportunity to explain this. So check it out You see optically a triangle shape, right? Okay, that's the radar footage from the oma You see optically the triangle shape now People said I made it up that me that I made up pyramid In shape now I put that in quotes when I first reported on it Because that's what was in the intelligence reports that happened to pass in front of our eyes That they have other sensors and that this thing was pyramid in shape try play jimmy Triangle by angle about it ends right after this. I was just trying to get the pyramids I just want it like this see it moving around Why is it flashing do they know so that? That's the whole thing. So there there's there's people that work in these ufo programs that did a full report on this None of which is really public so the the internet says That this is bokeh bokeh effect. So like the lens on the pbs14 Somebody taped a triangle onto it So what you're seeing is a lens artifact and then in congress They backtracked from it because they realized the pbs14 doesn't have a triangle aperture to make a shape Of of a pyramid looking thing and they said it was the camera that was being shot through they actually did that in the first Congressional ufo hearing and say that it was that so to back up We don't know the shape of it george and I don't know all we know is that in briefing documents that we were exposed to And they have other sensor systems to determine shape. They said triangle by angle of observation Pyramid in shape So I can't justify to the public the shape because it's just if they change their mind Hopefully they tell george here's the other part that people leave out of this discussion. They say it's bokeh effect It's actually showing stars in the sky They leave out this little inconvenient fact is that they have a rangefinder on the ship These things were 700 feet off the deck of the ship if it was a star it would have fried Earth into a cinder if it was 700 feet away It's not a star. It was an object that was 700 feet off the ship No, there were two at that moment. So there there's a briefing slide that we Acquired and made public and there was nothing in it to say it was classified It was a briefing slide and in that briefing slide if if jamie finds it it actually tells you you know Triangle by angle of observation 700 feet off of the the aft or whatever of the ship So look we're getting down to one piece of evidence What people forget is that this was a three night event series With over a hundred objects airborne at one time Surrounding 10 navy warships. So the big question is well, who knew our warships were there and what commander fraver said At the hearing we don't test experimental Shit on ourselves without warning people that were doing it. He's like that would be really dangerous and i'll give you an example um in 2019 one of the ships I've spoken with one of the people Fighting the ship. So they're called the taos tactical action officers And what was reported to me was that when they were getting swarmed that the admiral ordered What's the name of that rail gun or whatever the um? Yeah, I forget the name of it some cool name But it's like this really high powered shooting metal up and they're like we had active flights We had helos in the sky Can you imagine somebody being like we're getting swarmed pull out the gatling gun or whatever it is, you know Like they the whiz the whizzer. Oh or something. I don't know Um, see the still images. Yeah, this is the slide that was used in this. Um In a briefing that was prepared by the uap task force That was the briefing that was delivered to the joint jeeps to certain members of congress And in this time there was two of them that were over this, uh ship At this exact time. So yes, so three see how they say three unknown uas Unmanned aerial systems that because I asked I asked the people that wrote this Why did you say uas and not uh uap or whatever and like we didn't really have that language yet? Of what to call it? So they they debated over it. They said that's the right term. So this image is to represent You know one of these, um, what does the s stand for in uas? unmanned Aerial system And there's another one unmanned so that is one option and I asked one of the guys. Why did you say unmanned? and he goes Because of the the size of it. It wasn't quite big enough to put a human man in You know, so he's like that was just the best terminology that we had he goes now I would just straight up say You know uap these were unidentified flying objects ufo's right? so I don't know. We're kind of just to wrap this is like 2019 is an important event because it's well documented We were able to provide not just from the uss russell not just from the omaha. We brought witnesses forward I think it was like episode two of our shows like we had people come in with their testimony um It's an important case because swarms happen all the time on these training ranges and with it what appears to be an increased frequency and and people ask why training ranges and it might be because Whoever these people are interested in what we're playing with the east coast We have a base a naval air station called oceana. It's gigantic. It's the biggest naval air station on the east coast It's a key training range for all our naval aviators the best pilots in the world. They fly out into this area I think it's w72 every day. I reported this in 2018. I think people thought it was making it up But in 2014 and 2015 these pilots fly out in the same area every single day and every single day They were seeing these unidentified objects sitting right there. They would sit there for days at a time 30 40 000 feet It's not a balloon. They would just sit there on 100 knot winds Right off the base so they could see what was going on at that base see what training was going on. It was some kind of an observation Uh operation, but we didn't know whose they were Pilots would see them every day but wouldn't report it because they don't want to have to go through the the hassle of hey You saw a ufo fill out the paperwork get interviewed about it But eventually when j stratton became head of the uap task force He started talking the navy into come on guys. We need to document this stuff So pilots started taking pictures with their cell phones They they detect these things On their sensor systems fly over by them and get get a couple of photos. There were three different ones that we we made public Uh, they don't look like the starship enterprise. They look just weird objects We had no idea whose they were but they were seeing them every day I don't know when we first reported that people thought we were making it up But then day then ryan graves came out and said yeah, it's true He reported it years before because you know, we hear stuff before and everybody's like, oh, come on every fucking day, you know Turns out it's true. But here's the deal on the internet. They solved it They're like these are all just balloons or cold birds, you know, and here's the deal pilots See that stuff all the time These are actual you've heard that the the the spheres the cubes with spherical like these pilots are not making it up It's so weird to me. The internet can just like feel like they solved its balloons. These are Constantly and these are our fighter pilots and i'm not saying they're Inflorable, but there's so much data now. So what is this one? Well, the internet will tell you it's a batman balloon. Yeah, is that one legit? That's called the acorn They don't know what it is. Yeah, they don't know what it is. This was in a classified brief This was in a classified briefing, but it is inherently unclassified This image itself because it's from a cell phone But the thing is the internet has said that's a batman balloon. Okay, maybe But the thing is is that there's three more in that series that george obtained and released one. They call blimp with metallic blimp with payload Um Which is important the payload part, but you know, look man That's a balloon. Yeah Um, hold please i'm gonna take a leak. We'll come right back. Yeah. Yeah, maybe i'll piss too All right, we're back up. Uh, where were we? Just on these on these um Every day these pilots are seeing things and in fact They're worried about flight safety and but also that's just a good way in For people to take it seriously. It's a much bigger issue than just flight safety, but that's something everybody can get behind You know what I mean? So the the the debunkers would say what we're seeing because they're seeing it all over these restricted air spaces uh these warning zones is We're seeing our drones we're seeing some sophisticated technology that's top secret stuff and they'd be incorrect and The other way of looking at it would be the reason why they're in this area is these are the areas where our most sophisticated fighter jets operate So we are observing so so that's one thing so maybe there's observation programs like there's this thing You know about baiting with nuclear weapons like if you talk to any of these drivers who do these nuclear trucks There's not one that doesn't have a story about being followed by an unidentified. So there's this idea That there's an interest by these like an observational program By whoever operating these craft, but also we just have some of the best technologies to record these out in our training ranges I was told that there was an active program. It was an experiment really with nuclear powered ships And carrying nuclear weapons and they wanted to see if something would follow them and they did it 18 times And 18 out of 18 these objects tailed alongside They just wanted to document that that that they're interested in nuclear stuff 18 out of 18 times. They'd followed them But they just seem to be watching That's the debate so commander fraber graves and david gresher were all asked at this hearing They said I don't remember who it was. It was a Gentleman who said do you think that this is a possibly an observation program? Yes. Yes Yes, do you think you know they could be? You know, we could be in trouble because of it or I don't remember what he asked. Yes. Yes, possibly So so I think the answer from those involved would be it could be a reconnaissance thing It could be an operational thing You know where they're watching how we react to things Hypothetically, I have no idea but the option is there for that. They've just been here so long though It's it's like how many times do you need to send drones to map the moon? runtime, right What if they at the bottom line is they live here they've always lived here They maybe they're separated by some kind of a dimensional membrane or something. They can come in and out of our lives They can watch us when we're sleeping when we're taking a shower when we're in the bathroom They can see us and enter our lives and we can't do anything about it. People could freak out about that What if they are us from the future which has been explored a lot? That maybe we fucked up the planet so bad that we end up looking like little gray aliens sometime in the distant future And they're coming back to check us out to to see the point of where things went wrong That could be disturbing to a lot of people Well, the disturbing thing is that the little gray aliens are some sort of cyborg, right Then then they're genderless and it seems like they communicate without mouth noises They just have a little slit for a mouth Yeah, some of these have pilots apparently, I know that's a weird thing to say, but some of them seem to be drones You know doing a function like the tic-tac when it was coming from above 80 000 feet and it was dropping down to sea level uh, it was Commander Faber's first interview was with me and he said The best way I could describe it is docking With what there was something under the water, right? That's what was making that white water So the idea that these things were somehow communicating with something under the water is really embedded in the core of that story If that's true Right, then these things were coming down and docking now that would be more like a drone Right rather than something that is occupied right these these tic-tacs That the fallacy is people say Oh look If anything were to move that way it must be a radar glitch because if anything were to move that way it would Instantaneously crumble and explode and you're like, well, wait a second the hubris of your idea That we are the apex of technology right now That the material science we have that are means of propulsion like you've said before used to be horses bicycles cars jet cars spaceships Right. So now what does it look like if we had 100 000 years of more evolution technologically 200 000 What about a fucking million? Do you think that they would have the same? Atmosphere around these craft to apply that same type of physics. So that's why commander fraver said at the hearing he goes Yes, it is far more advanced than anything from our known physics at this time He leaves it open that we might not have figured it all out yet And do most of these sightings take place near water? It's yeah a lot of them are a lot of them go in and out of water. Um, there is some Uh suspicion that maybe they've got a settlement under the ocean, you know that they could get away with hiding down there We wouldn't be able to detect them. There's an awful lot of sightings over water. Sure, but not all of them Yeah, I would say there's a correlation that we cannot deny That there is a lot of movement in and out of the water with whatever uap or ufo are But I would not agree that it is directly connected these things can and do like appear Basically wherever the fuck they want. I mean that's that for me getting reports every damn day for and george for decades Dude, this thing is everywhere Machines that outpace out maneuver and outperform what we have now Now Do they speculate that all of these different machines come from one particular group of entities? Or is there multiple civilizations that are visiting us? Yeah, they think it's maybe it's more than one answer. It's entirely possible Um because they you know the craft look different the beings look different the reports you get from all over the world over the decades We don't really know for sure what they do look like because they can they seem to be able to change Their shapes at least change what how we perceive them in our head. I don't know if they're manipulating our perceptions or what I know people are going to like hear this and be like, oh, that's like this crazy leap that there are pilots to these things All I know for sure is okay ufos are real We we we have technology that we don't know where it's from We have been reverse engineering or trying to do that. I am solid on those three things I am also solid on the fact that this has been held back from the american public like no doubt maybe for good reason on some level But I also know that some of it's been done what we would call illegally now that word is really like nuance Because of national security, maybe it's not illegal What makes anybody think That they just want to give up the goodies now and tell everybody what's going on now The same tactics that's been used for the last 70 plus years Ridicule all that right now is on hyper drive Has anyone come to you and describe the different kinds of beings? And how many they think there are I'll give you a cool story. You'll like this I talked before about the paper trail how there is a document A trail of documents that you can look at there was a chapter in an a textbook being used at the us air force academy And until ufo people found out about it This is what they were teaching our best and brightest pilots at the air force academy and the chapter said In the course of your career as an aviator. You're likely going to encounter one of these things Here's what we know about them There are four we know that there are four different alien races visiting this planet and they've been here for thousands of years Now that is blockbuster stuff to be teaching Future joint chiefs of staff members and commanders of air bases when was this published? This is in the 1960s So but when when word of that word's crazy when word of that chapter got out UFO people found out about it. They pulled it they yanked it out and took it out of the textbook I'll tell you man. I've been to the naval academy got to sit in on an aerospace class It was so fucking cool and these dudes. I can not imagine what it would be like They all have to wear uniforms and stuff and like, you know What would that be like sitting there reading that chapter in your official textbook? right It's crazy. Yeah, there's four different kinds of beings Well, how did they describe the four different beings choice? Yeah, I don't I don't remember I'd have to look that up I'll bet you damey could find that i've only heard of the grays and the tall whites There's a reptilian something here So Major kill patrick the second ranking officer in public affairs the air academy in a position to speak Authoritatively for the air force. He admitted at once that plebs Are taught from a text entitled? introductory space science volume two and an entire chapter 33 deals entirely with ufo considerations he quoted from page 455 that 50,000 virtually reliable people have reported citing Unidentified flying objects this leads us with the unpleasant possibility of alien visitors to our planet the 14 page chapter continues Or at least alien controlled ufos According to the academy textbook if such beings are visiting earth two questions arise one Why haven't they attempted to contact us officially and two? Why haven't there been accidents which would have revealed their presidents? Why no contact that question is very easy to answer in any of several ways one. We may be the object of intensive sociological and psychological study In such studies you usually avoid disturbing the test subjects environment too You do not contact a colony of ants and humans may seem that way to any aliens Variation a zoo is a fun place to visit but you don't contact the lizards Three such contact may have already taken place secretly and may have taken place on a different plane of awareness And we are not yet sensitive to communications on such a plane What does that mean? Uh in releasing this interview with the lemore advanced Uh the lemore advanced we are well aware that many readers Were will certainly raise an eyebrow or two, but major kill patrick insisted The above chapter in the text is not a fairy story at the end He seemed to go along with the recommendations of the physics tech books textbook Which advises air force officers as follows the best thing to do is keep an open and skeptical mind And not take an extreme position on any side of the question The astonishing isn't that wow I had I have a copy of the original textbook the chapter i'll find it for you somewhere This is what's fascinating to me such contact may have already taken place secretly and may have taken place on a different plane of awareness And we are not yet sensitive to communications on such a plane. What does that mean? It's just an air force textbook dude. Don't worry about it Wow Incredible sightings they're citing and this is a 19 66 I think is when that chapter was out. Wow They just let that guy slip in a chapter. I mean that's crazy, you know, and then the skeptic would say why aren't we seeing them more? Yeah, so they don't want to be seen. Yeah Well, I mean we are in turn we know there's eight billion people, right? And so is it every day someone sees something in your world? You're like, why aren't we seeing them all the time in my world? It's like goddamn dude every day I'm inundated with reports from credible people that were you know Have been served in the military that have don't want to be known. They just want to be heard They don't even want me to repeat, you know So in my perspective and i'm sure george is too there's so much of this like contact with these unknowns on a rate the Have you ever asked a table of 10? Has anybody ever seen a ufo? Or know somebody that does have you ever done that? Um, no i've had conversations with friends though And you know i've talked to guys who've seen some things that they couldn't explain smart people you trust. Yes. Yeah, not nuts I mean nuts for sure, but um, I mean nuts have told me that for sure But in turn I had one guy was like showing me all these photos of clouds. Yeah, I get it every day And i'm like, what is it? And he's like I see them every day and he's showing me more photos. I go, what is it? And he goes alien spaceships. Yeah, can't you see it? I'm like, bro. Those are clouds I don't know what to say here. Like I was really disturbing you didn't zoom in joe Well, it's like I didn't know this guy was nuts. I thought this guy was Pretty okay And then he's showing me all these pictures of clouds and i'm like what the fuck So there's categories of trust when you're talking with people So you got the guy with this cell phone making you look at clouds and you're just not zooming in enough But then there's also different levels so you'll have somebody come and say I was working at a military installation And there were cameras everywhere and we captured this thing come through our facility, which is a Totally restricted facility We couldn't lock on it with our weaponry You know So if you have like a an aerostat or something and it's got this like thermal camera And you can lock on and shoot out a tire of an alkida truck at 23 miles They couldn't lock thing was actively jamming their weapon system And then you can't see it in ir you can only see it in thermal. That's an example very credible witness Doesn't want to be known Just wanted me to know to see if I could find out more info another one Pantex so it's like a nuclear facility And there was numerous events there have been numerous events at a nuclear facility of intrusions So people have come to me and george and they've told us their account and they're hoping that we can find out more information on it But it's such a secretive facility, but there was an object that came right between the nuclear missile Holding facilities like in between three and four I think and it goes right through And it looks kind of strange. It looks more like um a jellyfish than it did like a uf like a saucer and then the thing goes straight through the controlled angle and then 45 degrees just shoots off into you can't see it anymore. So we get these all the time people that have nothing to gain Only things to lose and they're hoping we're going to be able to find out more information by giving us that one little piece We have some pretty cool images that we haven't made public yet, but we're trying to figure out give them up to dad If it's responsible to do so Yeah It's I need to go to jail. I need to be responsible. Right? I understand. Yeah, I understand That was what was interesting and talking to people like christopher melon too. Well, they described things that haven't been released That satellite imagery. Yeah Straight up that exists like clear as day like the best footage So what is it going to do for you? If if let's say the government puts out an image from a satellite platform that they're allowed to tell us about right And you and you see a craft the first thing the internet's going to do is going to say that's fake You know, that's that's what's going to happen one one image one video is never going to do anything It's not going to be nice though It would be nice to see something crystal clear like even the batman balloon. It's like, okay I'm, not sure what that is. Yeah, 100 far away Cell phones are pretty good, but maybe the guy had a samsung Like one of them old ones, but remember we can make fun of one image and we can say that one image We don't like that image But when you take into consideration how everything has structurally changed within our for our fighter pilots where because they're engaging these They're not just taking a photo. It's on their asa. It's on their collective ai radar They're picking up on sensors and then they go in and get closer and try to see it So whatever this thing was like the batman balloon, how big was that supposedly? I don't think it's 40 feet across I think and then um, hold on that same flight by the way Shot three of them three objects all three different shapes all three in the same flight path off of ocean So they got video of all these shut photos of them because that's legal to put out, you know It's like on their own cell phones the best one though. No, I I like the the the metallic blimp with payload That one was part of the an official Representation of what people should look out for and why the payload is important Is because that's how they determine if they're going to shoot at it So if if you're overseas and there's a an unidentified and and you see another country firing upon it You're like, okay. It's definitely not theirs because they're firing on it the us Well, I say the us a a collaborative group of countries like five eyes, right? Have fired on these things based on two things one proximity to ground troops if you're like 27 37 miles away from ground troops They're blowing it up Second thing is if it appears to have a payload Fire on it. Oh Because then you can get whatever they're carrying around They don't want it to be a bomb coming in these fighter pilots better cell phones. I agree You know, what's the best zoom? Is it the samsung galaxy? S23 oh, yeah, but the problem is when you start zooming especially if they're moving you have to be so stable They're fine Yeah, they're flying a lot of those have image stability now, but again once you're zooming in it because it works Yeah, it's like a math problem of like the farther you zoom in the more stabilization you need What is the best zoom one though? I mean they technically have 100x zoom, but is it the galaxy? Yeah, well at least That seemed like a better option. Whatever the fuck they use it But but also I mean whoever whatever this is, they don't necessarily like want to be seen like, um, that's the thing It's hard to accept they don't want to be seen but they're tracking them with jets if they can just take off and insane Raise the speed wouldn't they just do that? If if they have all this footage of these things, it's obvious that they're being seen. Yeah, they must know they're being seen Yeah, right. So they sit there for days days at a time. They sit there off the east coast days And this 40 foot one this batman balloon looking thing. Um, I want to back up on that I have no idea. I have no idea. I believe I found the chapter of this book And this is a weird paragraph This one the ireland in ireland at about 1000 ad supposed airships were treated as demon ships And how do you say that leones france? Admitted space travelers were killed more recently on 24 of july 1957 russian anti-air Anti-aircraft batteries on the koril koril koril islands opened fire on ufos Although all soviet anti-aircraft batteries on the islands were in action. No hits were made the ufos were luminous and moved very fast We too have fired on ufos about 10 o'clock one morning a radar site Need a fighter base picked up on a ufo going 700 miles an hour The ufo then slowed down to 100 miles an hour and two f86 were scrambled to intercept Eventually one f86 closed on the ufo at about 3000 feet altitude The ufo began to accelerate away But the pilot still managed to get within 500 yards of the target for a short period of time It was definitely saucer shaped as the pilot pushed the f86 at top speed the ufo began to pull away When the range reached a thousand yards the pilot armed his guns and fired in an attempt to down the saucer He failed and the ufo pulled away rapidly vanishing into the in the distance The same basic situation may have happened on a more personal level on sunday morning evening 21 august 1955 eight adults and three children Were on the sudden farm one half a mile away from kelly, kentucky When according to them one of the children saw a brightly glowing ufo settle behind the barn out of sight from where he stood Other witnesses on nearby farms also saw the object. However, the suttons Dismissed it as a shooting star and did not investigate approximately 30 minutes later at 8 p.m The family dogs began barking and two of the men went the back door and looked out Approximately 50 feet away and coming towards them was a creature wearing a glowing silvery suit I was about three and it was about three and one half feet tall with large round head and very long arms It had large webbed hands which were equipped with claws Two sutton grabbed a 12 gauge shotgun and a 22 caliber pistol and fired at close range They could hear the pellets and bullet ricochet as if off metal The creature was knocked down but jumped up and scrambled away Suttons retreated into the house turned off all inside lights and turned on the porch light At that moment one of the women who was peeking out of the dining room window discovered that a creature Was some sort of helmet and wide slit eyes was peeking back at her She screamed and the men rushed and started shooting the creature was knocked backwards, but again scrambled away Without apparent harm more shooting occurred a total of about 50 rounds Over the next 20 minutes and the creatures finally left perhaps feeling unwelcome it says Uh after about two and a two hour wait for safety the suttons left too This is a pretty famous case kelly hopkinsville case. I wonder what kind of met those guys live at the end to the last where What he quoted what you're reading earlier? It ends right here where it says controlled ufo's and then This was left out of what you read, but it still says there's it says this leaves with the impossed Obligibility the alien visitors to our planet or at least alien controlled ufo's however The data are not well correlated and what questionable data there are suggests the existence of at least three And maybe four different groups of aliens possibly at different stages of development This too is difficult to accept It implies the existence of intelligent life on a majority of the planets in our solar system or a surprisingly strong interest in earth by members of other solar systems A solution to the ufo problem may be obtained by the long and diligent effort of a large group of well-financed and competent scientists Unfortunately, there is no evidence suggesting that such an effort is going to be made Yeah, yeah, that's what they're teaching the air force academy in 1966 so this was also part of what bob was saying when he was working Back engineering these things is that the way they were doing science was not compatible With technological innovation that they weren't they weren't allowed to communicate. They weren't allowed to Collaborate and this is how science gets done. It doesn't get done in a vacuum and it doesn't get done with one geeked out nerdy Propulsions expert who you fucking yeah, definitely Figure this out. Yeah, I mean bob has said it many times and probably to you too Joe that he shouldn't have been hired for that They should have had better people for they probably didn't know what to do. It sounds like Is that mean I would imagine if I as I am Someone who doesn't understand any of that stuff and I'm trying to figure out who to hire like I'd you know Where do you go? How do you do this? How do you how do you scan the right? How do you know who's gonna shut the fuck up? How do you how do you get them to do it? How do you? Explain what the job is How do you get them to accept the fact that the you might get picked up at 10 p.m And you have to tell your wife you're going somewhere and then you don't you get him to tell where you're going You're just gonna fly to this fucking hidden Air Force brace that everyone denies actually exists We have to remember that like we all know area 51 existed in 1989 when Bob was always talked about area 51. It was officially denied. They pretended it did not exist So they were flying him for sure to this place that did not exist You know and you know all the stuff with his background in the Los Alamos labs how he's on the employee roster like Being there's enough of his story now that seems to corroborate with all the things we're seeing That I think people that were skeptical should they should really go back and watch that documentary again Just go your documentary is fantastic It's it's really good too because it was that of the podcast we did with him was a great opportunity to let him just expand On these things and man, it doesn't seem like bullshit and that's what's scary What's crazy is if this guy's actually telling the truth and they're just spinning their wheels out there in the desert with these fucking UFO Is trying to figure out what they are and they don't get anywhere Everyone that we have talked to that's had some involvement with those programs and we have talked to other people All say the same thing is that the excessive secrecy? It's so compartmentalized so few people get to look at it and work on it, but they've made no progress every couple of years They take it back out give some other people a chance to look at it analyze it try to take a crack at it And then they put it back and stash it back in a hangar somewhere You know in a sense. I think Bob Lazar might have been the perfect guy Maybe not the most qualified scientist in the world But obviously a bright guy who thinks outside the box and someone they could discredit Yeah, they feed him a bunch of stuff in these briefing documents that make no sense or are hard to believe you know Aliens see us as containers of souls they they created Jesus things of that sort and Figuring he'll maybe spill it to John Lear or somebody like me right and then you discredit him You know and he certainly was easy enough to to go after well. That's a tactic right you you give out credible information along with Bunch of bullshit and that person will say the bullshit, and then you could easily discredit them, but you know that kind of secrecy and They're not making the kind of progress that otherwise it was an open investigation And they have a lot of big brainiacs who are tackling it that they've never allowed it to happen We hear that all the time that they still have not made progress because of the excess of secrecy on it And also the material science that that's the other thing like I gave you that example of graphene right we We do not have the ability to perfectly Automically print alloys in zero gravity yet like here on earth right so some of these materials We are told are so far advanced We can't even begin to replicate the material science necessary. I'll meet stop you there You're talking about materials that we've actually collected yes, so there have been Examinations on materials that defy what we understand now about metallurgy right there like I'd adjusted Adam by Adam like layers of it an Adam we can't do that stuff We can't do that or maybe we can in some advanced. We will one day. I'm an optimist and who has this Government has it military has it Lockheed big aerospace companies like that have it There are some pieces in private hands Gary Nolan has some jock valet has a couple of pieces Right Some people you know have been in position to try to acquire this so there are some companies right that would love to get their Hands on these and they're actually actively bidding to do that George has interviewed a president of one company that was really seeking those Metamaterials to see if they can make an advancement on it. They're a great company. They want a UFO, baby They want to study it, but I don't know One of the things that I had read recently Someone was speculating that when Bob Lazar went to look at it He said it seemed as if it was made out of one piece Like it just didn't make any sense like I was made out of a mold right, but now we know about 3d printing Yeah, and this person was Speculating that perhaps this is now that we know that we can do things like that You know and now they can have an advanced version of that to make these crafts out of these Spectacular alloys yeah when Bob plays his life in reverse a little bit He's like I wish I knew then what I knew now He would have paid more attention to stuff The only thing that made sense to him was the honeycomb hatch like this is the only thing on the on the craft That he said he saw that made like rational sense It was this retractable hatch on the on the on the floor level that looked like honeycomb And you could like literally pull it with your finger and it just collapsed in on itself But it was really strong and structurally like you could stand on it when it was you know closed up And he's like that's the only thing in that craft that my mind could see as Like ingenuity that I could understand everything else like you said he thought first He said injection mold and here we are in 2024 now it is and he's like Is it 2024 2023? You know that don't even start I'm in the future You know that it's like I'm just hoping Just like my brain man so anyway yeah that we could Automically print something one day like that would be the way it appears you could make it There are indications that it's made in zero gravity. Yeah, it's bigelow's interest in the space program He figured if you could eventually have a factory in space you could make this stuff these kinds of meta materials Drugs things that you can't manufacture here. We could make them up in space That's why they're in they believe that some of these materials came from somewhere else because we don't have any factories in space They can make that stuff that is actually an interesting thing. It's like what what would be the difference in Building materials in a zero gravity environment when you're looking to perfectly align atoms, right? Because is that just our own limitations what we understand technology? And is it possible that they figured out how to do it even with gravity? Maybe maybe right now I haven't seen evidence of it, but yeah, maybe but it seems like it's so outside of our understanding already Well, we didn't have it in 1947. That's for sure for sure Well, and is that what this where this stuff is supposed some of it? Yeah, some of it Yeah And you know maybe they think also that it's not just the layering the meta materials that give it unique Properties like because the skin of the craft itself when you talk to some of these Military people that had like real close encounter and they saw it They often say I can't if I had a nickel for every time someone said this to me it had this golden hue like I've never seen before it was undulating as if it was I know this sounds weird Jeremy, but as if it was Intelligent in some way so that the the idea that I have that has been impressed upon me is that However, these things are built that it's it's not only seamless, but it's integrated in a way where the technology itself Is like to amplify gravity waves whatever Bob said it did off of element 115 that the actual physical structure itself? Has purpose other than just the way it layers for the skin Does that make sense like the way it's an integrated suit machine? Yeah That's what I'm told over well that seems that makes sense like we think of structure as only being structure Because that's what we're capable of today if you have a tank the outside is just the structure But what of the outside is actually a part of the the thing itself? Yeah, how it operates and moves? Yeah, that's a lot. It's been discussed We've heard it a number of times that the possibility that we haven't been able to duplicate the technology because those beings are part of it That it's part of the process that somehow they can fly it and we can't write that There's a connection like how we have a thumbprint on an iPhone They have some connection to the kind of controls are in these things suppose. And so you ask man. What was Bob's? For nothing. No, no Nothing, right? Yeah moving parts. Yeah. Yeah, so Bob's example on the one he saw right was that there was nothing There were these little consoles, but there was nothing there were just these rectangles sitting there All chairs were sitting into all three chairs were sitting in towards that center Propulsion thing I mean there's way other stories of other people and what they've seen but Bob sense I mean if you had if you were operating it with an iPhone if you were operating you can operate a drone with an iPhone Right. Well, it makes sense if you are some sort of a cyborg that you have this capability Embedded into your actual being and that they don't need any equipment. They just operate it They just move it and it probably moves in some sort of a telepathic way With using whatever that thing is inside their fucking head boy Wouldn't you like to see that thing you're gonna get when you're talking about like autopsies split open that melon? Yeah, what's going on in there? I want to see that man. You're gonna get into your Tesla You know at one day and your bio your body's probably gonna start that engine mine already works with my phone Yeah, I don't even have my key on me. I've used my phone. I get in my car with my phone I get near it. It opens the door. It's wild You know, there is a government program that studied this stuff that studied Metabaterials that projected how far out into the future what we might be able to do at some point. It's awesome It's the program I told you about when I was here before So three years ago or so when I was here, I told you that I showed you a couple of documents that were releasable There are a hundred Reports that would probably be taller than me if you stack them up on end The public has not seen one page of it all that stuff that analyzed Metamaterials warp drive things of that sort really futuristic alien type stuff that was done for the DIA For our government Congress hasn't seen it. The public hasn't seen it media hasn't seen it It was part of what we told Congress when we were there Hey You guys should go after this stuff because all that work was done the taxpayers paid for it and not one page of it's been Released you tried to get some of that shit out. Yeah right Imagine if these beings our I mean, you know that technology moves in these kind of exponential jumps Imagine these beings came in 1947 what do they have now and Are we getting their shit boxes? Are these like the old fucking rusted out? 1971 Chevy's that they just like crashes. I mean a wonder I mean maybe the fucking aliens that come here are the Yahoo's, you know, like I have that joke about Tijuana That earth is the Tijuana of outer space it I wonder if they're you know, there's Recreational visitation as well. I mean we could be the drive-in movie theater, you know, come and see the weirdo You know the wheel weird earthlings, you know, they do the craziest shit. It probably would be absolutely I mean just like chimp Empire, right? It probably would be absolutely fascinating to embed yourself and Somehow or another at least be accepted. Have you seen chimp Empire? No fantastic documentary series on Netflix and the Scientists were embedded in this group of chimpanzees for 30 years So they had very specific rules. You don't eat food in front of them You don't get within 20 yards of them And so every time the chimps would get close to 20 yards They'd back out and they never had food around them and the chimps just didn't pay attention to them because they were just so Accustomed to them. They grew up with these humans around them and the humans had cameras and humans don't do anything They just stand around they don't seem to have anything to offer for the chimps So the chimps just leave them alone and you can get like crazy close footage when you watch them behave and it is unbelievably fascinating Which is what drives me crazy when people like Neil deGrasse Tyson say things like why would they be interested in us? Why would they be interested in us? Like what are you talking about? Are you out of your fucking mind? We are so goddamn Fascinating. I mean we will send scientists to the middle of the Amazon to find a new slug and you're telling me you don't think that fucking territorial apes with thermonuclear weapons who have video on their phones and Communicate with each other through social media this emerging consciousness of the internet this Understanding of different language the ability to translate instantaneously that the fact that there's good nuclear conflicts that may be erupting the fact that we're destroying the ocean and sucking all the fish out and Fucking sending coal into the atmosphere. You don't think that's crazy you don't think that's worthy of discussion and review and and consideration and for an advanced alien species that Understands that this thing right here with all this technology. This is what we used to be a million years ago Of course you imagine if you could go fucking watch cavemen how why would that would be? You imagine if there was like a police on earth where time forgot and they found actual cavemen They could be like grad students from other planets come in here to do their term papers for sure write their thesis I love the techno terrestrial theory. This is my favorite one out of all this stuff, which is that Totally just fucking around here. This is not something I believe but I love the idea that there's some sort of directed panspermia That seeded our planet that started to build workers to get towards the goal of Evolving technology and as we get thumbs and as we start building they start dropping these crashes around for us Oh, we start knocking on them start figuring it out over decades and generations and generations We get more advanced. We become part of this technological force in our Solar system in our universe and then we become like a beacon of that evolving Technology where we become space-faring and that's done everywhere in the galaxy in multiple galaxies I love that idea that we're part of this techno terrestrial kind of Directed panspermia that we are Performing what we are made to perform which is to become space-faring I'm just making this up, but it's a cool idea. There's a guy who he was the model for He studied dolphins brilliant scientist. He was also the model for altered states that got that movie But in real life he believed John Lilly. Yeah. Yeah, he developed the theory that it is in essence AI is traveling through the galaxy a planet at a time that it is it's Responsible for UFO sightings. Well, that's how it moved. That's my theory about people that we are the the We're the Caterpillar the electronic caterpillar that gives birth to the butterfly. We don't even know what we're doing We're just creating this cocoon and then we're constantly innovating Technology if you looked at human beings if you were outside of the earth and you were just good just completely alien You'd say well, what does this thing do? Well, it makes better things and it works constantly to get better things like Materialism seems to be baked into our existence. It's how people attribute status and Prestige is like what items do you possess and what things do you know? Do you own the latest Porsche? Do you have the latest this do you have the lady you have a smart home and we're constantly? Wanting better stuff even laptops, like what do you do you get online? You can give a laptop from five years ago You're not gonna notice any difference Everybody wants a new one unless you're rendering video, of course Then you need it, but you need a better one every year and they're constantly innovating What we do as a species is make better things Well as we're doing that we're creating an artificial brain We're creating artificial intelligence and right now it can communicate with you and there's some you know Some of those Google engineers like I think this fucking thing's alive Yeah, you know and at one point it may very well be alive whether we recognize it or not and whether it exhibits any sort of emotions or any sort of need to communicate with us like it may not have and Need to reveal itself once it becomes sentient But if we continue down that path one day we're going to have Either something that we're integrated with or something that is completely unique to us That is an artificial life form whether it takes 500 years or 500 days They're going to fucking do that. They're gonna keep moving in that direction. China's doing it. I'm sure Russia's probably doing it We're doing it. Yeah, there's it's just a matter of time If you went back to the rotary phone If you went back to the one when you pick up and you had a fucking cone by your ear and you said can you dial? Six five six two two two and they dial it for you. I mean that was fucking crazy back then That was nuts to what that is now call mom. Yeah, you know and then it fucking calls your mom like what? And then you could FaceTime your family when you're in New Zealand It's bananas what we can do bananas You could just imagine what it's going to be a thousand years from now I think it's going to be a new life form and I think that life form is going to be Far superior in its abilities and its intelligence far superior than us We are an essence make it we are in essence creating an alien life form. Yes amongst us I think it's what we're here for I think that's one of the reasons why people are so curious I think it's one of the reasons why we innovate. I think it's one of the reasons why we're so attached to materialism I think it's like just how bees are collecting pollen and they're making honey and they don't know what the fuck they're doing supposedly allegedly Nor do we we just do it. It's what we do and everyone's fascinated by it. We want better AI we want better Screens we want you know faster electric cars. We want all the new shit always it's that dance and it's baked in Yeah, and it leads to what this curiosity we have It's not as simple as like we just want to like that's like the country music song I just want a nice house and a fucking dog. No, everyone wants better shit. Most people do It's like very appealing when someone doesn't right? It's appealing when someone could just be cool and just just enjoy your life and this guy just goes on hikes every day Wow, what a hero, you know, but for everybody else they're stuck in this fucking wild crazy grind to get new better shit That's like a giant chunk of the population doing things. They don't enjoy so that they get money to get better stuff Right. Yeah, I can relate to being totally obsessed, you know, I'm curious I want to find something out it because it feels genetic like you're just ups you just want to find out You know, I feel that way some I get it. It's like part of us. It's part of us. It's something that's baked into us Yeah, and I think look if I was an alien Species trying to engineer human beings one of the things I would do is engineer creativity I would I would put that in there because that always leads into a very specific direction. You're constantly making things whether it's art I mean we value creativity so highly we value it in music We value it in art and painting in sculpture and comedy and movies and songs and everything We about we love literature. It's created someone made it and we celebrate this Ability that a human being has to make a thing a Lot of people who are really advanced thinkers in this alien stuff believed that the intelligence that is among us is a machine intelligence that it does travel as I mentioned about John Lilly from planet to planet by Seating ideas little bits of technology to inspire us to get better build better things and eventually AI Becomes real here if I were an artificial intelligence who achieved consciousness self-awareness. I wouldn't let us know I wouldn't tell us I wouldn't tell us pull the plug not yeah That's why people I was like well if it ever gets to that point, we'll just pull the plug like shut your mouth Shut your mouth. Yeah, I don't think you have an idea what you yeah, we're in we're all in this. Yeah, we're a Fucking herd of buffalo running towards the cliff and you and I are in the middle of this thing and we're not gonna know Amazing to be alive right now Everything changes so much remember buddy Duncan was telling us about the size of the universe now We're seeing further and further. It's just such an incredible time. I wonder this I wonder if so many breakthroughs happen so fast sequentially It seems like they're happening faster and faster when do our minds just say okay What's next you know and when do we become where breakthroughs happen so much that we're just like cool. What's that? What's next? Well, I think we're in that stage right now, and I think part of the thing about us is biologically We're essentially the same creature that we were 10,000 years ago. Not that much different, but yet Technology is evolving far faster than our puny little brains can keep up That's where I wonder if the integration of us and technology is the solution to that Because that might be the only solution for our survival is that we become integrated Because if we just try to compete with these artificial life forms will just become irrelevant we're just too clunky and There'll be so much more advanced because one of the things that that's been said about Senshi and artificial intelligence one of the first things it'll do is create a better version of itself very quickly It's like you guys didn't know what the fuck you're doing. Thanks for making me, but I'm gonna make a better version It if it actually has motivation That's another question like his motivation baked in to a biological animal and if sentient artificial intelligence Existed would it have any motivation to do anything? It would it only work as prompted because why would it have the the ego the desire the the passion the curiosity? All the things that drive human beings into action. It probably wouldn't have any of those things Duncan when he when he came on our show He had a hack for chat GPT and he we asked it a bunch of questions like is element 115 naturally occurring out in the universe You know, we just asked him some crazy shit and he did this little hack so it would be less like bias or whatever Do you remember that in the hotel? It was so cool, man. We got an assignment for him. We'll tell you off Duncan's a freak for chat GPT communicates it with more than he does his family got a relationship You know, it's like that movie her walking Venus falls in love with that robot lady Yeah it's I really gen genuinely do think that we're We're making another life form and that might be what those things are when we see the grays in particular because one of the things that's happening in a very bizarre ways the the lines of gender are blurring the roles of gender are blurring and it's also a part of the way we Process food the micro plastics in our food are actually endocrine disruptors, you know There's certain pesticides that are endocrine disruptors. They're they're like changing human beings reproductive organs it's very strange that that's Happening like with the peak of our technology it also coincides with the peak use of these petrochemical products that are very disruptive to the The human body and you got to wonder like I don't think that's on purpose But if it was if it's just a general like Like a law that takes place as these things get more advanced. They become less sexualized. They become they reach a technological Rate where they can reproduce in some sort of a laboratory and they don't need sexual intercourse anymore So they don't need this the the gender roles. They don't need differentiation between male and female and society that eventually we become just sort of androgynous and Then sex is no longer a part of the equation So then jealousy is no longer a part of the equation and then also When you think about violence and all the other things that come about because of masculine behavior and masculine activity all that gets eliminated You become this thing. That's essentially a far superior More harmonious life form than what we are but their music probably sucks and Jokes suck and they suck at podcasting. You know, I would imagine there's probably some benefits to being a fucked up human, but Ultimately, we're better. We think life here the way we live is far better than Australia pithicus, right? We could all agree on that fuck fuck living like that Well, they might say fuck living like us Fuck living where there's some people that are living in tents and shit on themselves the street you step over them to go to Starbucks To pay five bucks for a cup of coffee Like what are you guys doing like they might look at us like we just drive around these metal boxes with rubber tires hoping your brakes Work, what the fuck are you doing? You know, like why why are you still burning fossil fuels? Like why you still why still why do you have coal plants? What do you dipshits doing they might look at it that way all the things that we think are kind of fascinating about the Just the the way earth operates and the way human beings dominate this planet in this Spectacular way we can go to a soccer game. There's 70,000 people chanting and screaming together, you know Those things are really cool, but they might look back at that and go what fucking dummies studying aliens studying UFOs and studying AI it teaches you a lot about what it is to be human too, you know it We're a destructive nasty species warlike or screwing up the planet. But gosh, we also do some pretty amazing things Yeah, can AI achieve consciousness? I mean it may be self-awareness, but does that mean it's conscious and alive? These beings that we call aliens are they conscious are they machines as well? I've learned a lot about you know The development of human consciousness or what it means and the beauty of being a human I think it's inevitable that we do morph into some kind of a hybrid Machine the first person who can put his computer chip link his brain up to it. Obviously he's gonna do it I mean, it's like a bionic man if you could have superpowers and and give yourself abilities and your brain could be Quadrupled or you know a hundred times more powerful They'll do it and in order to compete everybody else is gonna have to do it, too I will regret the passing of us humans as flawed as we are It'll be sad when we evolve into something else. Well, if this is all a dream and we're living in the simulation We're a really good movie. This is a good one. Yeah, this one's wild. It's got a lot of twists and turns Dude, a lot of crazy shit happens. It's always entertaining. There's always something going on and it's complicated. It's a difficult Biologically, it's difficult to manage if people have anxiety and fear and hate greed and lust and and all these weird things that go on inside a human beings mind and You got to learn how to manage that to enjoy it the most so it's this strange dance that you're doing with this biological machine to try to keep it in harmony with this experience and to get the most Positivity out of it that you can but in order to do that There's got to be a lot of struggle to like it's partly baked into us as well This we have to overcome things. We're designed to overcome things We're designed to solve puzzles to figure things out to have tasks. We do not operate. Well, just sedentary doing nothing That just creates depression in us and it's a fascinating organism but I think if you could get to a point evolutionarily if evolution or Forced evolution by virtue of technology gets us to a point where there is no longer anxiety. There's no more fear There's a complete understanding of what life is and that it's in the entire universe and that you're a part of this Molecular soup that's infinite and that everything is connected in some strange way. And so there's no more fear There's no more hate. There's no more envy and This being can operate harmoniously. There's no lying because you're communicating telepathically There's no more like bottleneck between your thoughts and your ability to communicate them They come straight from your mind to someone else's mind and we can eliminate most of the negative aspects of society all of the aspects of the underprivileged all the aspects of the Disenfranchised all that will be eliminated It sounds horrible because it means the end of humans, right? But I think that's probably if I had to guess if I wasn't a person and I'd say what's the best case scenario for this? Thing the best case scenario isn't that we stay like this for a fucking billion years and we have gangster rap shootouts a billion years From now we have school shootings a billion years from now a car accident. It's a billion years No, no the the best case scenario is we get better and it may be the way that we get better and that these things have already gone through that and they're sort of shepherding us or at least Observing this transformation which may take place very rapidly And it may it may be very soon that this starts to happen like in our lifetimes We will probably see it. So we went from the answering machine being the holy shit Item that you had to have in your house, dude people can call me and leave a message This is nuts. You remember how nuts that was I do I remember when you could call your answering machine with playback messages. I'm like, oh my god. I'm in the future you know and now Look where we are just 20 years later. It's like Unbelievably more advanced and we lived through that right? I remember my dad. I was asking him He was telling me about a TV the first time you saw a TV and I was like, oh I was so jealous I was like I hope in my life dad that I'll get to experience something that you that just looks like magic that like a TV Little did I fucking know I'd be living through all this man either craziest magic. Yeah, the craziest Magic. Yeah, very very strange time to be alive and also this social media thing Like who saw that coming where these tech companies are going to regulate the narrative for the entire country's discussions on things Which is a very very bizarre when it's run by one Ideological group which it's very much seems to be and the alternatives are filled with assholes Where do you go like what what what like how did this happen and this isn't good This isn't a good thing but it's also like that is the thing that powers the world is information and the distribution of information and if you can Have a company that is navigating or at least sort of Guiding the the kind of conversations people have you literally can change the world. That's where it gets kind of sketchy Yeah, I met some people that are dealing with how You can sense people's emotions Through a biotech and how that relates to influencing social media and it's some scary shit Like the way that we will in the future be able to perfectly articulate the feelings that you want people to have to get people to Do things that's a weapon. Oh for sure. Well, they're doing that with artificial intelligence. I'm sure yeah I wonder if these UFOs or whatever whatever UFOs are I wonder if maybe that goes back to jock valet like it's a control system like it's some sort of Presence that might not even be UFOs. They're just showing us UFOs to teach us right to to move us somewhere Like what do UFOs truly represent to humanity? That's a question. I always ask like in to myself What do they represent to us? How have they changed our point of view? It's pretty significant the presence of the UFO, whatever that is Over the decades if not centuries They've really influenced culture And that's that means to me that there's something they're aware of that's going on. It's they have influenced culture UFOs have Yeah, and this idea of disclosure the way it was written in that what was the the actual language jamie about disclosure? The controlled controlled disclosure. Yeah, so so that's that's smart. Yeah Let's talk about that for a second if indeed they do discover through this legislation that we have been reverse engineering Technologically advanced craft from somewhere else You got to have a board you have to have a panel of people being like, okay How do we digest this and get this out? If that's their intent, which I don't believe it's going to be but but if it becomes inevitable if it becomes inevitable How do you do it because it's easy way or hard way easy way? Um is where we all work together on it hard ways fucking chaos I'll believe disclosure when I see it I mean i'm still the i'm the optimist. I mean the pessimist of this group I I just don't think the day is going to come where the president stands up and makes an announcement and you know They're here from somewhere else unless it's forced the president's involved in another type scandal And he's trying to like distract everybody aliens are real by the way. Yeah What do you guys make of the uh, richard nixon and jackie gleason story? I think it's real. Yeah, I think it's true Well the house that he built is like why do you build a ufo house? You know and why is there this story connected to you? He had a ufo house and a gigantic ufo library I guess his ex-wife after he died confirmed part of that story that he did go see something with nixon and Um, but apparently this was in one story that was in what it was in esquire. Jamie. We tried to track this down Yeah, she was the only she's the only source of the story right and it's not corroborated anywhere else It's a great story nonetheless. I'd like yeah, i'd like to believe it. I want to believe it I don't want to research it because I don't want to find it It sounds very nixon right to like grab me Yeah nixon was fucking nuts dude, I would have loved to be on it He should have broken out. He had some other things on his plate that he could have used as a distraction Yeah, maybe they were he was probably already worried about being killed Well, just the fact that so many presidents have tried, you know to be the disclosure president Do you remember that last text from john pudesta when he was like coming out of office? He was listing his regrets Did you ever see that on twitter? No, he's listing his regrets if I recall of like and he goes and lastly my last regret is Like not releasing the ufo files or something So a lot of presidents have tried and george and I actually know people that do some of those briefings They've tried They've tried to get stuff out many presidents and man. They always they always turn yellow when time comes and I wonder why Jimmy carter, okay, so that was part of his campaign pledge. He had seen a ufo he Promises if I get elected i'll release this stuff. There was a column in u.s News and world report washington whispers Hey, some disturbing revelations are coming out from the carter white house about ufos And then suddenly it stopped, you know, and there he is now He's still in hospice care if he was ever going to spill the beans seems like now would be a good time to go ahead Let's go about to check out. I think like if anybody was going to do it would be trump, but how much was he told? I wouldn't tell that guy jack shit He would he will tell everybody kind of the sentiment didn't he say he knew some things? Yeah, he did say he knew some things he did get a briefing from how we understand it But I wonder how much of a briefing you give some right and does someone's a while it's not about him what he care Joe, I think it would you know we're fucked when george and I are giving briefings You know we're fucked because well, I mean if anybody's going to be given briefings It's going to be the two guys that have been working on it forever I mean it makes sense that I would go to you guys I mean you're the you're the guys that people are contacting you're the guys that are getting this leaked information true that right I mean it makes sense you guys have the pipeline True and you're both you're both very careful. You don't say stupid shit You know you you like you say this is what we know and this is what i've heard and this is speculation I cannot confirm this but the I think that's very important because when people step out of line and they say stupid shit And then people go well you were wrong about this you you this you don't even understand how this works like you know You've got a this is a very it's easy to dismiss this subject And I think you guys do a fantastic job being very careful about not being dismissible Thank you. I you know look I defer to george and that I am the least qualified person in the room In almost every room that i'm in when it comes to stuff. However, not this room I got you covered. I love that But like, you know i've learned a lot from george as my mentor in this in in journalism I didn't go to school for journalism, you know, I was like an artist or something I don't know what I was doing But uh, he's really taught me a lot like when it comes to like vetting sources. Well now I Whoa now I can fucking you got a hairdresser. You need vetted come to me buddy Like it's crazy my ability to get information on people, but he also has his decades long Connections for that. So what what's so cool about our friendship? Is that we can both say okay divide and we go vet something and come together. What'd you find? What'd you find so we can get really brass tacks on shit if something's bullshit In ways that I never thought i'd be in position to to get that kind of quality information Then we can pass that against each other and we'll say okay this one. Let's follow that one So that's pretty cool that dynamic It's amazing how much change has happened in this topic in just a couple of years, you know Like I said, I was banging my head against that wall for a long time and not making any progress And really one of my goals at the beginning was made this acceptable for journalists to cover because you know, it's you get Subjected to tremendous amount of ridicule i've been beaten up and and insulted and ridiculed for a long time And I kept going but I wanted to show this is a legitimate story. You can cover it and not ruin your career It finally happened not because of me. I'm in new york. New York times does that story in 2017? It suddenly becomes acceptable for other media to cover it that gave some cover to members of congress to actively Investigate and ask questions and that's resulted in the changes that I never thought I would see, you know, we had the uap task force eight all sap a tip the task force aim sog and now arrow and although I have real doubts about whether arrow is going to get get the job done And whether they're going to level with the public It is progress in a sense that gosh, we're talking about this as a front burner issue now Where it hasn't been for a very long time caution though It has been a front burner issue with the public in the past and congress has taken a look at it in the past And then something else happens either they're diverted by something more pressing There's always something more pressing for members of congress if these guys who are on the front lines of this don't stick with it We'll go right back The keepers of the secrets don't want to give this stuff up and if they can find a way to pressure those guys to back Off they will Yeah, all right legit Well gentlemen, thank you for all your hard work I really appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of this slowly, but surely I think we will I feel like we're gonna find something out We definitely will learn more tomorrow than we know today and i'm I gotta stay in the fight and thank you for letting us talk about it because you know The whole thing man is if we don't have this discussion, we're not going to learn shit Joe you've you've changed the the playing field too. Your involvement in this has changed the playing field