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Chris Williamson is the host of the "Modern Wisdom" podcast. https://chriswillx.com/modernwisdom
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Christopher Dunn, The Giza Power Plant: Technologies of Ancient Egypt
Homer, The Odyssey
Johann Hari, Magic Pill: The Extraordinary Benefits and Disturbing Risks of the New Weight-Loss Drugs
Norman Ohler, Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich
Shanna H. Swan, PhD with Stacey Colino, Count Down: How Our Modern World Is Threatening Sperm Counts, Altering Male and Female Reproductive Development, and Imperiling the Future of the Human Race
Stuart Russell & Peter Norvig, Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach
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Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
I took the glasses off. I was hoping you were going to keep them on.
You want me to keep them on?
You can pull them off.
Some dudes can't pull off douchey glasses.
You think these are douchey?
A little bit if I didn't know you, but I'll know you.
I'm not douchey at all, so you can wear cool glasses.
Well, these are requests by you, so I can wear what I want.
You've been wearing them a lot. I like them.
Yeah, yeah, I do.
It's like having an Instagram filter for the entire world.
Right.
Everything feels just a little rosy.
I had a pair of rose-colored glasses before, and I got it.
I was like, oh, I get it. It is better this way.
It is nicer. Yeah, yeah, it's like a full line.
Dude, I need to show you this.
Okay, what is this?
I have a little open of that.
So you'll remember that I sent you a photo on iMessage a couple of months ago
of a friend of mine who was in Antarctica.
Yeah.
And he flew a comedy mothership lighter out to Antarctica.
I've been reliably told that that lighter was used to smoke weed in Antarctica.
Yeah, and it's touched—it was dropped a number of times, so it's touched
ancient permafrost.
Fuck yeah.
What kind of laws do they have in Antarctica?
I don't know. Apparently very liberal.
Do they have any laws?
Fuck knows. I don't know.
There's nobody there. Have they established laws?
They were 400 miles in.
Whoa.
So this was part of the final experiment, which was this attempt to try and disprove
flat earth.
Oh.
He went as a part of that.
Did he bring flat earthers? Is that the deal?
So four flat earthers, four globeeers, get flown to Antarctica. It's $35,000
per person.
Oh, my God.
This guy called Will Duffy put the project together, flew everybody down there.
Did he pay for each person?
Yep.
Wow.
I think maybe a couple of people chose to go self-funded, but they were trying
to get the open offer to all of the biggest flat earth influencers, commentators,
I don't know what to call them.
How many went?
Four of each. So four roundies, four flatties.
Don't you want to see their search histories?
Maybe the FBI do. I don't know.
The flat people, I want to see.
So they do this in the middle of our winter, their summer.
They observe the sun above the horizon for 24 hours.
So there's no explanation, apparently, with most of the models of flat earth
about how the sun could stay above the horizon for 24 hours.
So they flew down.
They had drones flying in the air.
They had a 24-hour 360 cameras.
They had live stream of iPhones, all of this stuff.
And then they had the people that were on the ground.
And the guys that were there observed the sun.
Did the flat earthers switch stances?
So three did and one didn't?
This is just their drone footage.
I was just showing you footage.
Oh, this is drone footage?
Yeah.
So the final experiment.
So those are apparently mountaintops.
But they're submerged?
It's just all ice.
That is so fucking hardcore.
It's so fucking hardcore.
Because, you know, there's a bunch of things up there that look like pyramids.
And what it really is, is just an unusual peak of an enormous mountain.
Have you seen the Antarctic pyramids?
Yeah, you got to go all in on that.
Okay.
We have hard-launched this episode.
People that believe wild shit about Antarctica.
So you know about the direct energy weapon theory, right?
Yes, I did see that on Sean Ryan's show.
Yes, I did as well.
I was like, okay.
That guy's fucking really interesting.
Yeah.
It's like, he sounds really interesting.
But if I want to sit him next to Eric Weinstein, you know what I'm saying?
Like, is anything that this guy's saying make any sense?
Because I've done that before with Eric, with one guy who was a fraudster.
I sent him a video and I said, tell me if this is gobbledygook or if this is
real physics.
You used Eric to stress test some guy's ideas.
Of course.
He loves it.
He loves any sort of intellectual stimulation, especially if it's like
mathematics or physics
or something where it's his wheelhouse.
And, you know, he's great.
Because someone can sound really good to me, you know?
They can start quoting thermal dynamics.
Finesseing you through whatever their problem is.
Like chiropractors do.
You know, chiropractors use all these crazy, weird terms for musculature and
different insertion
points.
It's to let you know that they have a comprehensive understanding of the body
that's far beyond
yours, Chris.
And this is the same thing like a lot of fraudsters do.
They'll use enormous language and very verbose, you know, phrases.
And it's like they're just trying to get you to think that they're smarter than
they are.
Yeah.
I think people use sort of complex language and fluency as a proxy for truthfulness
and
insight.
Yes.
And especially when if you're dealing with a truly brilliant person, that's
what the pyramids.
Holy fuck.
Yeah.
Oh, this is just on Google Maps.
Yeah.
Jamie, you've just gone to Google Maps to find this.
Yeah, I didn't want to go to any.
I went to the source.
Any kooky websites.
But it does look like a pyramid.
Well, it also looks like all three.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
But the reality is that's probably under a couple of miles of ice.
Yeah.
So this final experiment thing sent the world into a spiral.
There's this dude, Jaron Campanella, who was one of the biggest influences.
And he's said, I saw the sun above the horizon.
I think the Earth's round.
He's immediately been, the Flat Earth Society's just gone into a head spin.
They're saying they didn't really go to Antarctica.
They went to the sphere in Vegas, was one of the accusations.
They did it at the sphere in Vegas.
And they were tracking it around.
The sphere's not that big, kids.
Yeah, well.
It's not that big.
I don't know.
I've been there.
There's seats everywhere.
You would know you're there.
I don't know.
I don't know.
They had a bad time.
But yeah, that's been pretty wild.
Talking of pyramids, dude, this new pyramid shit that's just come out?
Oh, this is insane.
Yeah, I was going to send this to you as well, Jamie.
I'll send you one of the most comprehensive breakdowns of it on X because it's
quite stunning.
So apparently, through the use of LiDAR, they have discovered that there are
enormous structures
underneath the Great Pyramid that go kilometers deep into the Earth with coils.
So enormous pillars and then these coils.
They don't understand what it is because they're just looking at LiDAR images.
But whatever this is, is a uniform structure.
There's several pillars.
And all of this is like very, very, very weird.
Yeah, 600 meters descending down those cylinders.
And then there's more stuff below it.
And then there's additional structures inside of it.
Yeah, that was crazy.
It's really crazy.
There's a guy, Jay Anderson, and he did a breakdown of it.
Maybe this would be good.
We could play this.
It makes a little more sense when someone's explaining it to you.
Well, yeah.
I mean, we need somebody that's an expert here, not me and you.
Zowie Hawass, by the way, has said it's nonsense.
Already?
Yes.
According to Graham Hancock.
This is the wonderful thing about having Graham Hancock.
I texted Graham yesterday.
I was like, yeah, what's going on with this?
Yeah.
So click on that and go full screen, please.
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Dun-dun-dun.
I love the music.
And geometry, so you know it's real.
You've got to appreciate the dramatic intro.
Project Unity.
What has just been announced in relation to the pyramids at the Giza Plateau
and the plateau
itself is so incredible, so awe-inspiring, and narrative-shattering that I have
been sitting
here for the last hour trying to wrap my head around the implications of what
we were just
told.
So this is pretty much breaking news because the new findings were announced on
the 16th
of March at a press conference held by the team who were studying the Great Pyramid
of
Giza with a non-invasive technology that was first developed by Filippo Bionde
and Corrado
Malanga called Synthetic Aperture Radar Doppler Tomography.
Fuck, that's a mouthful.
This was used to explore the internal structure of the Great Pyramid of Giza.
And this method leverages the analysis of micro-movements typically generated
by background
seismic activity to achieve a high-resolution, full 3D tomographic imagery of
the pyramid's
interior and subsurface components.
The recent findings from deploying this technology are nothing short of mind-blowing
because what's
been discovered is that there are huge structures coming down from the base of
the pyramid deep
into the bedrock, in fact, over 600 meters deep, which then connects to
structures that extend
up to two kilometers below the surface of the ground.
Two kilometers, massive internal structures connected to the base of the
pyramid and extending
deep, deep down.
This is what we know so far.
What does your friend think about it?
Which friend?
The one that said it's bullshit.
Oh, that's not my friend.
That's Zawi Hawass.
Okay.
Zawi Hawass is the head of antiquities in Egypt.
He's like the head guy that talks to the archaeologists and gives the official
narrative.
In the past, he's been extremely hostile to Graham Hancock, but Graham Hancock
and him
have now become friends.
Oh, yes.
I do know this guy.
And they're coordinating.
Graham is a lovely guy.
People that are enemies with him just need to get to know him and hang out with
him.
He's a genuine, real human being who's trying to find the truth.
He doesn't have fake narratives.
And he's so sensitive, too.
Like, he's so upset.
Like, when people smeared him, like the Atlantis thing, they were trying to say
it's a white
supremacist idea to look for Atlantis.
It's like, what are you talking about?
Like, what are you talking about?
Like, we had this guy, Flint Dibble, on who, in an article, and he was talking
about
Graham.
And he's connecting Graham to white supremacy and all this crazy shit because
of the Atlantis
theory.
That's the way they dismiss Atlantis.
Is it pedestalizes white heritage?
Because some people in the past, some people in the past who have theorized
about Atlantis
had white supremacist ideas.
But also, most people didn't.
Like, Plato didn't.
Like, the people that talked about this place, it's in sub-Saharan Africa.
I mean, it's like the least white supremacist discovery of all time, as are the
pyramids.
This is Africa.
It's the least white supremacist notion of all time that this incredibly
advanced ancient
civilization had reached some sort of proficiency that's above and beyond what
we attribute to
them.
I think Graham is right.
And I think there's a lot of other people that are right, too, that are chasing
this down.
And Christopher Dunn had long ago theorized and wrote a book that he believes
that the
Great Pyramid of Giza is a gigantic power plant.
He thinks it generates power.
And he has a very, like, a working theory of why it's built the way it's built
that totally
coincides with the ability to produce hydrogen, the ability to utilize the rays
of space and
try to find some way to generate electricity through this.
Yeah, it's the association of other people that we don't like talked about this
thing.
Therefore, anybody else that talks about this thing is immediately attached to
them.
Just seems like a very lazy way to sort of smear people.
It's lazy thinking.
It's gross.
It's beyond lazy.
It's not lazy.
It's really cheap.
It's like they're cheap insults.
And it's also from academia, which is so disappointing.
You know, I mean, academia has been so captured by this mind virus of leftism
that it's just it's
so bizarre to watch the brightest minds and the people that we lean on for
rational, reasonable
thinking and an objective understanding of the world.
We lean on the experts.
And when they're calling someone a white supremacist for talking about an
advanced society that
lived in Africa, there's a lot of ways that you can put your foot in it.
There's this woman, Corey Clark, who sent a survey to every psychology
professor in the
U.S. and asked them questions like, what is more important, the truth or
ensuring that
equity is promoted?
And a lot of professors basically said, I self-censor.
I would prioritize making people feel good over necessarily telling them the
truth.
There are certain opinions that people should be reported for.
There are certain topics that basically shouldn't be discussed.
The usual suspects stuff like behavioral genetics.
So heritability, evolutionary psychology, as in anything that kind of relates
to sex differences.
And yeah, it really is retarding the progress of everything.
And you think, well, trickling down from this, what sort of educated society
are you going
to have in future?
That's not going to be particularly good.
Well, I think it's going to encourage independent education.
I think you're going to encourage people like University of Austin, which is
they're aiming
to do just that and to kind of bypass all this nonsense and just teach people
reality.
And I also think that it's most likely, I mean, I don't even want to say most
likely.
It's most certainly influenced by other countries that want to degrade our
ability to develop
meaningful minds that come out of universities, like intelligent, useful people.
Distract them with social justice.
Not just distract them, but destroy society with them.
It's Yuri Besmanov's prediction from 1984.
It's like you could pass that off as a ridiculous conspiracy theory if it wasn't
totally accurate.
It's like, it's amazing how people don't want to believe that maybe there's
been subversion
and that maybe our universities have been overrun for years with both funding,
which we know
is true, particularly from China.
China funds a lot of American universities.
They give a lot of grants.
They spend a lot of money.
And this was a part of the whole thing with Joe Biden's bizarre job that he had,
where he
was a professor that he never showed up for classes and he was teaching and he
got a large
salary.
Like a mob teaching job.
He got a mob no-show job teaching.
But as a professor.
Yeah, as a professor.
And I think he got a million dollars a year to just do nothing.
You know that question that people ask about-
Find out how much you got.
I don't want to get sued by a dead man.
He doesn't know what's going on.
He doesn't know what's going on.
Well, he might auto-sign the legal papers.
There's that question about, there's two options about life in the universe,
that either we're
alone or that we're not, and both are equally terrifying.
Right.
I feel like it's the same when it comes to Western anti-Westernism.
And you say, either we're doing it to ourselves or we're not.
And both are equally terrifying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, you're being puppeted by this nefarious foreign power, or you're just
turning around
and kicking the ball into your own goal over and over again.
Well, I think people will turn around and kick the ball into their own goal.
But I also think they're being helped.
I think there's a substantial amount of this that just works automatically.
It preys upon really weak minds and particularly bullies and mean people who
want to find other
people that they can hate to justify like whatever virtue they believe that
they have above those
people and they'll use it to hate.
And John Cleese made a great video about this, why extremism is so interesting.
It's on my Instagram.
I reposted it the other day.
Someone posted it.
We'll give them credit for it.
But it's a great clip from John Cleese from 30 years ago.
From 30 years ago.
Prophetic.
And in pre-social media.
There's no social media at this time.
And he essentially nails what's going on with both the right-wing extremists
and the left-wing extremists.
It's the same thing.
They're the same people.
They're finding a thing.
Click this.
We've heard a lot about extremism recently.
A nastier, harsher atmosphere everywhere.
More abuse and bother boy behavior.
Less friendliness and tolerance and respect for opponents.
All right, but what we never hear about extremism is its advantages.
Well, the biggest advantage of extremism is that it makes you feel good.
Because it provides you with enemies.
Let me explain.
The great thing about having enemies is that you can pretend that all the badness
in the whole world is in your enemies.
And all the goodness in the whole world is in you.
Attractive, isn't it?
So, if you have a lot of anger and resentment in you anyway.
And you therefore enjoy abusing people.
Then you can pretend that you're only doing it.
Because these enemies of yours are such very bad persons.
And that if it wasn't for them, you'd actually be good-natured and courteous
and rational all the time.
So, if you want to feel good, become an extremist.
Okay.
Now you have a choice.
If you join the hard left, they'll give you their list of authorized enemies.
Almost all kinds of authority, especially the police, the city, Americans,
judges, multinational corporations, public schools, furriers, newspaper owners,
fox hunters, generals, class traitors, and, of course, moderates.
Or, if you'd rather be an extremist on the hard right...
I bet the moderates are in there again.
...you still get a loveliness of enemies, only they're different ones.
Noisy minority groups, unions, Russia, weirdos, demonstrators, welfare sponges,
meddlesome clergy, peace nicks, the BBC,
strikers, social workers, communists, and, of course, moderates.
And upstart actors.
Now, once you're armed with one of these super lists of enemies, you can be as
nasty as you like, and yet feel your behaviors morally justified.
So, you can strut around abusing people and telling them you could eat them for
breakfast,
and still think of yourself as a champion of the truth, a fighter for the
greater good,
and not the rather sad, paranoid schizoid that you really are.
Seriously.
Brilliant.
Brilliant.
That's so good.
Brilliant.
Yeah, I remember...
Pre-social media.
But the dynamic is still the same.
Right, it's just amplified now so much so that it's a part of everyone's life.
So many people's morality stands on the shoulders of somebody that's fallen
behind, right?
It's, look at how bad that person is.
You don't need to look at me.
And I think that if people start pointing at outgroups, and they bind their
group together over the mutual hatred of an outgroup,
that's usually an indication, I'm like, I should look a little bit closer at
you.
Like, what might be a good example?
Lizzo.
Didn't think I was going to go there.
Lizzo.
Talking about how she was in support of these bigger girls.
Yes.
And she was going to help their careers and give them a platform, presumably a
structurally reinforced platform.
Meanwhile, behind the scenes, she's body shaming them.
She's starving them.
She's not letting them have water, apart from when she makes them eat bananas
out of the vaginas of Amsterdam strippers.
Douglas Murray said that she thought that she could outsource eating fruit to
somebody else.
And meanwhile, you think she's portraying nicey-nicey out front what's
happening behind the scenes.
Right.
I remember this.
This was pre...
One cigar?
Yeah, please.
This was pre...
Thank you.
Pre-Trump Elon.
Really pre-Trump Elon.
And he was saying...
Thank you very much.
And he was saying, what I care about is doing good, not the appearance of it.
Yes.
And he's discussing performative empathy in this way.
This sort of sense that what's most important is to protect people's feelings.
And I think that this really is a point...
It doesn't matter whether you're on left or right.
This is a point that you should care about because you want people to have some
sense of transparency, legitimacy.
They want to be telling the truth.
You want to trust that what someone is saying to you is actually what they
believe.
Yes.
And he said, what I care about is doing good, not the appearance of it.
There are lots of people who are doing evil while proclaiming that they're
doing good.
And, you know, that's the same that you're talking about there with John Cleese.
You're saying, these people's morality will stand on the shoulders of others
who have fallen behind.
It's the same reason why if somebody's in the middle of a scandal, look at who
comes out and twists the knife a lot.
And you go, huh, I wonder what's in your...
It's the classic congressman that's got the anti-gay bill.
Oh, yeah.
Who's just...
Gay as fuck.
Yeah, yeah.
Glory holes and, you know, check his hard drive.
That's the person who's hard drive.
Check his hard drive.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it's just such an obvious warning sign to me that what's happening
inside of someone is probably not that good.
And, yeah, I mean, if you're looking to destroy someone particularly, like you're
attacking someone online particularly, almost all of those people are deeply
broken.
There's always some creepiness that lurks behind the scenes that you're trying
to cover up for with your actions.
Almost always.
You're trying to put the light on this person.
You're going to put the eye of Sauron on this person to keep it off yourself.
I've seen that a lot of, you know, self-proclaimed male feminists.
Sneaky fuckers.
Yeah, that I know to be creeps, you know.
And I'm like, ew.
And I'll see them attacking some other guy.
And I'm like, oh, God.
I don't dive in, but I want to sometimes.
Sometimes I want to just burn the boats and pull the fucking pins on the
grenades.
You know what I don't like about that sort of level of aggressive criticism?
I think I'm a, you could describe me as a criticism hyper responder.
I'm someone for whom it probably impacted me more than it should do.
Certainly more than it should do for someone who gets the level of attention
that I've managed to get myself to now.
Right.
And what I don't like about it is it causes people like me to be way less
confident in their own positions.
Because you think, oh, well, most people, if it was me, I would only give
feedback if I was really certain.
And if I had this person's best interests at heart and if I wanted them to do
better and if I actually knew what I was talking about,
then I would tell this person what I think about them and what I think about
what they're saying.
Right.
And if you apply that rubric to everybody else that gives you criticism, you
give undue, unfair expertise,
and legitimacy to people who don't have your best interests at heart.
They don't understand what you're trying to do.
They don't care about you.
They don't get it.
And it causes a lot of people, basically, I think that criticism killed more
dreams than a lack of competence ever did.
Because people are just, I'm worried about pushing these boundaries too much.
Sure.
This person, all of my friends tell me the truth.
Why isn't this person on the internet?
There's this idea from Ethan Cross called criticism capture.
So you'll have heard of audience capture, right?
Yes.
Where a creator starts feeding red meat to the audience.
It becomes very predictable.
Yes.
Criticism capture basically says it's not the compliments but the criticisms
that are more warping.
That over time, what you end up doing is changing the way that you speak.
You become a flaming sword-wielding, card-carrying member that's as aggressive
as possible to push back against it.
Or you go the other way and you begin to caveat very aggressively.
You start to dampen down all of your opinions so that nobody can take offense
to them.
You have these unnecessarily long sort of diatribes, sort of weird land
acknowledgement.
Well, we must remember that women are struggling with the thing and we have to
do the memories.
But now we've got that out of the way.
Let's talk about men's problems or whatever it might be.
Yes.
And yeah, I think I just wish that the internet was a little bit more positive
some as opposed to negative some.
And I understand that people bind together over mutual hatreds of outgroups.
But the oldest story in human history is that group of people are different to
us.
Yeah.
Let's get them.
The oldest story in history.
I mean, it's tribal genetics.
It's like baked into our DNA, literally.
And it can be manipulated.
And when people are doing it and they're doing it with a very obvious
distortion of your actual position,
just to label you as the worst possible, least charitable version of you that
could ever be remotely considered.
You see that all the time where people are just trying to distort a narrative.
You're seeing that right now with Elon, right?
You're seeing people justify violence and extreme vandalism.
And you're seeing people cheer it on.
And it's very strange.
There was a thing on The Daily Show where the host was talking about the
attacks on Tesla and people keying people.
And the audience starts clapping and cheering.
And the audience starts clapping and cheering.
It's so strange.
It's so fucking strange.
And it also just shows you how positions just completely flip-flop.
Like the Tesla used to be the car that you drove to let everybody know that you
were environmentally conscious and you were a good leftist.
It's a good question.
Do we care about the environment or not?
Because those fumes that are being kicked out of that are not good.
A thousand jet airplanes flying overhead for a year.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's wild.
You're lighting batteries on fire.
They're so toxic.
Lithium and all sorts of shit getting pissed into the environment.
Oh, it's all going to come down in rain.
It's going to pollute the water.
The fish are going to be polluted.
You're not going to be able to eat them.
But we're doing good.
This is for a righteous cause.
Yeah.
It's all funded, too.
It's funded by NGOs.
That's where it gets really creepy.
The Tesla fires are funded by NGOs.
Yeah, people are uncovering exactly what's going on.
And this is where it gets fascinating because all this stuff has operated
pretty much with impunity in the past before Doge.
Before Elon and his crew of hyper-spectrum psychopaths started to—
Fucking teenage mutant ninja turtles.
Super wizards started diving into all this data.
And this is something that Ted Cruz has talked about.
He said, we had always known that there was these problems.
But until Elon came along with these algorithms, we couldn't expose them.
We didn't understand what was going on.
And now they've used AI to create this understanding of the net of NGOs that is
all funded by USAID and by similar type programs where, you know,
you kind of have these open-ended checks that get written to the other side.
Other side.
That's the top.
Yeah, right there.
How often do you smoke cigars, fella?
A couple of times.
Well, I fucking turned this around the wrong way.
All right.
No worries.
Keep going.
But this is essentially the way Mike Benz describes it.
He's the very best at it.
I don't know if you've ever seen his breakdowns of USAID.
I love his episodes on here.
Incredible.
I think they're so interesting.
They're so interesting because you realize, like, this has been going on
forever and ever and ever.
And this is the arm of the government that is about regime change.
A lot of the money gets funneled into these other countries and it's under the
guise of, you know, air quotes, aid.
But it's not aid.
It's Agency for International Development.
And it's all about influence and power all throughout the world and also at
home.
And one of the things that it does at home is they organize these protests.
They organize protests.
Different NGOs do.
All funded by the government, all funded by taxpayer money in this weird way.
And when they do it, they pay people to show up at these places.
I've got pamphlets that people have given me that they've taken from these
locations or gotten from email lists.
Is that purposefully no digital record?
I think probably, but I don't think they care.
I mean, I think as long as they're saying they're going to pay you to protest,
I think that's legal.
I think it's legal to pay someone to protest.
So they're paying people $1,000 and they're giving them food and snacks and you
can get a lot of people to just show up for $1,000.
And then some of them are going to get a little vandal-y.
Some of them-
You bring enough people together and they get vandal-y.
How crazy is it that the left are the ones who are painting swastikas on cars?
Just understand how crazy positions can flip and flop.
The left is upset that we're not continuing an endless war in Ukraine.
The left is upset that this guy is uncovering fraud and waste.
And so in order to stop that, you must light cars on fire and put swastikas on
them because he's a Nazi.
Because he said, my heart goes out to you.
Even though there's countless videos of AOC doing that gesture, Tim Walsh doing
that gesture enthusiastically.
Many, many people.
I do think if you're in that position, if you've got this heritage coming in,
just be careful with where you put your hands.
Don't do that.
Do you know what I mean?
Don't do that.
Like, just fucking think about where you put your hands.
He's, you know, he's on the spectrum, man.
He's not normal.
You've seen that video comparing him and Trump's son?
There's two different types of autism.
Have you seen this?
No, I haven't.
Oh, my God.
It's so good.
I think it's at the inauguration.
And they're both stood next to each other.
And Elon's sort of fist pumping and loving it.
And Trump's son's just, like, staring off.
Apparently, Trump's son went up to Biden at the inauguration and said, it's on
now.
What is this?
A fucking UFC fight?
I mean, that's literally, apparently, lip readers have, like, read what he said
when
he went up to, because there's a moment where he goes up to Biden and Biden
looks confused
and he doesn't smile.
He's like, eh.
But he walks up to him and goes, it's on now.
Well, they need to do, you know, how football coaches have got, they put the
play thing over
the front of their mouth like this and they talk into it.
That's how it needs to be done now for politics with lip readers everywhere.
That kid knew there was lip readers.
I don't think he gave a fuck.
I think they tried to put his dad in jail and he wants to kill that guy.
That's what I think.
He's like, fuck you.
Because imagine your dad's getting that close to put in jail for bullshit for
the rest of
his life.
Like, if he got put in jail for 25 to life, he's dead.
He's dead.
He dies in jail.
He's going to get no food.
He's going to be no nutrition, no sunlight, depression, intense fucking anxiety.
You're in jail.
You're dead.
He's 80 years old.
He's not going to last to 105 in jail.
There was a video from Forbes recently that got a million plays in a day
talking about
Trump getting like bopped on the nose by a boomer.
Yeah, by a little boomer.
He just did a little boop on the nose.
Yeah.
I have to say I have such fucking news politics fatigue already.
Well, what?
Two months into the sort of presidency.
And it is the velocity of bullshit.
If you can get a million plays in a day because Trump got bopped on the nose by
a fucking
boom mic, it just, the appetite is, it seems endless for it.
It just feels, it's very, it's exhausting.
I'm kind of having to check out.
And I know that people say, oh, well, it's a luxurious position.
You don't need to pay attention to politics.
It's a luxurious position for you to be in.
People at the bottom, they do need to pay attention to politics.
It's an interesting stat because actually the most educated, wealthiest people
are the
ones that spend the most time consuming news and talking about politics.
It's the people at the bottom rung of the ladder that don't.
So that's not true.
I'm just fucking exhausted.
I'm so-
You're allowed to be exhausted.
It's ridiculous.
Newsweek wrote an article about how one of the names of one of our podcast
guests, who's
a good friend of mine, Michael Costa, his name was misspelled accidentally.
On the feed?
On the feed.
On the loading feed.
And so Newsweek-
Is that you, Jamie?
It wasn't even misspelled.
I don't know.
It was miscapitalized.
The second letter had a capitalization too.
I don't know.
The defense rests its case here.
It wasn't even misspelled, right?
It was M, capital I, Michael Costa.
Like me, Kyle Costa or something.
Okay.
There's a headline.
It's a fucking article in Newsweek.
You ever think that your career would result in you having typos for a headline,
Jamie?
Newsweek!
I don't even know which ones we've missed.
I'm sure there's been other ones.
That's just the first one I've seen.
100%.
What happens, it happens.
People make mistakes.
You're typing things in.
Yeah.
But the fact that it's an article that we're being called out for a typo.
Must be a fucking-
That's an article.
But it's just anything for clicks, man.
Slow week for news.
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Anything for clicks.
That was something that I noticed, a trend that I've noticed over the last
couple of years.
Legacy media is really struggling to garner attention itself.
It seems like fewer and fewer people are listening to it.
We saw that over the last election.
You know, it seems to me like the best way that legacy media can gain traffic
is to talk about independent media.
Yeah.
How many times are we seeing headlines about Andrew Huberman or about the right-wing
manosphere pipeline and how it's getting people to do this?
Or the other side, like, why is there not a Joe Rogan of the left?
Like, you know, whatever the headline is, more and more, the way that legacy
media is able to achieve traffic is only in reference to independent media.
Yes.
So they're, as opposed to us being downstream from them, they're now downstream
from us.
Yeah, and anything masculine is right-wing.
Anything.
You cannot be masculine.
Like, you cannot be interested in physical fitness, anything.
It's a pipeline to being right-wing.
Yes.
You can't like fast cars.
No.
You're not allowed to.
You're not even allowed to like Teslas anymore.
Misogynist.
Which are the fastest cars.
Yeah, you're a misogynist.
You're probably racist.
Maybe a Nazi.
I'm going to put a swastika in your car just to let everybody know.
It's, there was some really fucking stupid graph that someone put up of how
right-wing social media and new media people dominate.
That was the Media Matters study.
Yeah.
This is interesting.
I was at the top of the list.
I was at the top of the list and I was like, I feel like the way Caitlyn Jenner
must have felt, like when she won woman of the year.
It's so quick I got to the top of the list.
I'm not even right-wing.
Just because I support Trump, I support him over the rest of the fucking
nonsense that was going on when you're trying to push through someone without
even a primary.
Here it is.
This is it.
I'm number one, bitch.
It's kind of funny.
Like, they're putting Theo Vaughn in there.
Lex Friedman.
Yeah, that's, Lex Friedman, that's hilarious to put him in there.
Who else do they have in there that's ridiculous?
Piers Morgan.
Well, Piers Morgan is kind of light-right-leaning, I think.
Light-right.
But I think he's pretty reasonable.
I think he's far more of a centrist.
Kill Tony 3.5.
I still don't understand how that's a political show.
It's not, but Tony, you know, was at the White House or the...
Flagrant 2.8.
Flagrant is not a right-wing show, you fucking idiots.
They have a bunch of red dots, too, with no names on them, and then bulldogs.
You're allowed to.
Shut up, Jamie.
Stop being...
I managed to thread the needle of avoiding this.
You're going to get on there now.
They're going to put you on now.
Jamie, those red ones are real.
Just shut up.
No, I'm just...
I don't know why they're real.
No, they're real.
They're all real.
There's a couple blue ones that are real, too.
Fuck the name.
Yeah.
They're too little to get a name.
Too small.
No one cares.
No one gives a fuck.
Yeah.
It's hilarious.
It's very funny.
What do you think of the...
Have you got a proposed reason for why this?
Is it just a judgment criteria that they're judging shows that aren't right-wing
as right-wing?
Or is it genuinely that, for some reason, the left is struggling to make
progress in independent media?
Well, they're struggling to make progress in independent media, for sure.
And they're trying to figure out why.
They're trying to figure out why these...
What they're calling right-wing...
I think if you looked at all my positions, I think way more of them are left-wing
than right-wing.
What are the left-wing positions that you still hold?
Well, the big one is having some sort of a social safety net.
I was on welfare when I was a kid.
My family was on food stamps.
We were fucking poor as shit.
And I remember that helping us a lot.
We had food.
Where I don't know what we would be doing if we did...
I mean, we were in a bad place.
And there's social safety nets for people.
My family got out of that.
And my stepfather and my mother wound up doing well.
They did really great.
And they got out of debt and bought a house and great job and the whole deal.
But when I was a little boy, we were fucked.
And I think social safety nets are very important for people.
It's very important for society.
If you care about people, you care about the whole society.
You don't want people starving when there's ways to develop government programs
to make
sure people have food.
And I think this idea of pulling them up by their bootstraps is horse shit.
Some people don't have boots.
They don't have straps.
They don't have nothing.
They're fucked from the moment they were born.
They were born into a bad family environment, in a bad neighborhood, and crime,
and gangs,
and drugs.
And it's not even playing field.
Where are you at with health care?
I think health care, 100%, should be socially funded.
I think that Medicare and Medicaid, having programs where people who are hurt
can get an operation
and it's not going to bankrupt them for the rest of their life, is another
thing that I think
society should be a part of our agreement to take care of each other as a
community.
That we chip in money for what people would think of as socialist positions.
And I always bring up the fire department because the fire department is one of
the best examples
that everybody sort of agrees.
It's a socialist sort of thing.
You give your tax dollars.
The tax dollars supports the fire department.
The fire department fairly puts out fires for everybody.
They don't not put out your fire if you don't have any money.
It's not like they don't, the fires don't.
It's such a good example.
But when you compare that to the way that medical access is done, at least in
this country.
But I also believe in competition.
I've said this before, I'll say it again.
I want my doctor to be a bad motherfucker who drives a Mercedes.
I want my doctor to be really good.
I want him to be an artist.
I want him to go to the guy who fixes the Lakers knees.
That's the guy you want.
You want that guy who has a nice watch and he lives in a nice house and he
kicks ass.
And he knows how to fucking fix people really well.
He's the best at it.
And you go to him and you get an operation and you're fucking golden.
That's what you want.
You want competition because competition inspires excellence.
You know, being rewarded for your hard work is a giant incentive for people to
get amazing at things.
And you need that.
You need that too.
But there's also a lot of very good doctors who would be very happy to do
something that helps the overall greater good of the community.
Just like you have really good criminal defense attorneys that are, you know,
assigned to you if you're, you know, if you're getting unjustly tried and you
want a really good one that can help you.
You know, there's state appointed attorneys that are just good people that want
to help people.
You know, Bill Murray was talking about his daughter.
His daughter does that.
There's, you know, there's room for that with the amount of money that we spend
on so many things that we all agree are fucked.
And maybe some of that could be freed up with some of this USAID money that
they're pulling.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with giving people health care.
Like, if you know anybody that's been injured and was bankrupt because they
didn't have insurance and then they had to get some crazy operation and now
they have this enormous debt and they wind up going bankrupt or they're getting
chased down for the money for the rest of their life.
It's horrible.
It's the number one cause of bankruptcy in America.
Yeah.
Medical debt.
I mean, coming from the UK where we've got the NHS, it feels fucking barbaric.
It really does feel barbaric.
I remember I went to New Orleans and I was getting this great ghost tour on an
evening tie.
It's like fun tourist shit to do in New Orleans.
I do those.
And the guide was so good.
My mother was a Wiccan and I don't know if that was true, but the tale was
lovely.
Anyway, and he was telling me I've got a chipped wisdom tooth and my girlfriend
got into a car wreck the other day and he basically said, he was explaining to
me about how you can get bankrupted by this stuff.
He was like, if you get hit by a car and you don't have insurance, you better
fucking walk it off.
Because if you don't, that could be the end of essentially the beginning of the
end of your life.
And that really, I mean, that was six, seven years ago now.
And it's still like, that was the most haunting thing about the fucking ghost
tour.
Him telling me about the medical debt.
And then I think the reaction to the UnitedHealth CEO killing as well.
For me, somebody who didn't fully understand how many of the claims are denied,
I think that there was an increase by about 30% in denial of claims over only
the most recent period.
And I just thought, guy shoots person, typically the guy that shoots them is in
the wrong.
And the reaction on the internet just, I wasn't ready for it.
And it really sort of taught me this undercurrent of dissatisfaction that
almost everybody in America has with the healthcare system.
Yeah, I think it's a quiet epidemic.
I think there's been a lot of people massively affected by it.
And they're just steaming, just sitting there seething, just angry.
Waiting for some righteous person to come in and do retribution.
But then you see the fucking revolving door between the FDA and the
pharmaceutical drug corporations where these people leave.
And then all of a sudden they have these amazing jobs at pharmaceutical drug
companies.
They're making millions of dollars.
Like, how is that legal?
How is this whole thing legal?
Like, when you realize that doctors are incentivized to medicate people, they're
financially incentivized to give people certain medications, whether it's
vaccines, they get bonuses if they vaccinate more than 60% of their clients.
And they lose those bonuses if people don't get vaccinated.
There's like a lot of creepy shit that's involved in medicine.
The FDA ban on compounded Ozempic started yesterday.
Oh, it's a ban.
So you have to get it from the big companies.
Correct.
Brigham taught me about this.
I didn't understand how it works.
If there's a shortage of a drug, compounding pharmacies are kind of allowed to
just bypass patents in some way.
It's like you can produce it and you can make it cheaper and more widely
available because the supply chain is fucked or something like that.
That would be a good thing for society.
Well, to make more drugs more widely available for cheaper.
If it's a very important pharmaceutical drug that can save people's lives,
imagine not letting compound pharmacies make it for people that can't get it.
Yeah, or can't afford it or don't have the insurance for it.
So, yeah, I mean, that came into effect.
I think tizepatide got popped yesterday.
And then partway through April, semaglutide is going to go as well.
Yeah, that's all just eliminating competition, right?
Well, we need to think, you know, all of the people that are using these drugs,
that are losing weight with them, whatever.
We need to think about who the real sort of people suffering from this
situation are, who are the stock owners of telehealth companies.
If you own HIMSS or whatever, the stock's declined by a lot.
But, dude, I've been thinking so much about Ozempic recently.
And I think the introduction of Ozempic proves how much of a scam the body
positivity movement was all along.
You look at the Golden Globes and all of the women that were supporting their
bigger sisters, as soon as there was an easy route to being able to become a
skeleton, they look like this.
Look like this guy here.
They all get those sucked in cheeks and the eye sockets suck in.
It looks really creepy.
It just shows how flimsy your principles are, that it was easier for you to say,
I can't win this particular game, therefore the game is rigged.
Like, if you can't get what you want, you have to teach yourself to want what
you can get and then proclaim to everybody else that they should get it too.
Yes.
And, yeah, the Golden Globes, you've just got these fucking skeleton motherfuckers
walking around.
Yeah, I mean, women of Hollywood are now facing the same dilemma that dudes who
go to the gym have had for decades because it's pointless losing weight
naturally.
Why would you lose weight naturally?
Because everybody's going to accuse you of having used Ozempic in any case.
Same thing as a dude.
If you gain weight as a guy and you get jacked, really jacked, if you really
discipline yourself, you know, multiple years, progressive overload, time under
tension, hitting your protein goals, getting enough sleep.
What your friends and the people of the internet will say is, yeah, dude, easy
if you take TrendBelone.
Right.
And it's the exact same.
So, what is the incentive for anybody to lose weight naturally?
Right.
And apart from I have some concerns about the drugs and the side effects and so
on and so forth, socially, there is no incentive for you to lose weight
naturally.
You remember when Adele lost all that weight?
Uh-huh, I think I'm mad at her.
In the before times.
She did it in the before times, dude.
Right.
She did it hard.
Yeah, she did it the fucking, yeah, exactly.
The hard way.
Yeah, exactly.
Extreme difficulty.
Yeah.
But, yeah, now, now she's hot.
Do you remember when she did that Jamaica thing?
She came out and she had all of her hair, like, done like this.
Yeah.
But, yeah, there's this odd, like, Pascal's wager that you have to make where
you think, I can either lose weight normally or without assistance.
It's going to be more difficult and people are going to accuse me of using Ozempic
in any case.
Or I can just take it and it'll be easier and they'll accuse me of it.
Nothing changes.
Yeah.
I'm in favor of Ozempic for people that are morbidly obese.
I think anything that can get you on the path.
And I think if you can combine that, if you can say, okay, this is what I'm
doing, so I'm going to do this and then I'm going to start an exercise program.
And then you wind up losing 30, 40 pounds.
You feel better.
You look better.
If you can continue this exercise program, you've at least put a healthy thing
in your life along with Ozempic.
I think that's critical because also that can mitigate some of the negative
effects of one of the things that we're seeing is that people are losing a lot
of muscle mass and a lot of bone mass.
As much as 30% of the weight that people are losing is muscle and bone.
And that, I think, could probably be mitigated with regular strength training.
You know, you're only hearing about this from people that aren't strength
training.
Do not have a fitness regime.
Right, right, but which is the majority of these people that need this drug in
the first place.
That's how they got fat in the first place.
Right, right.
So, Johan Hari did a really great buck on this.
You've had Johan on a bunch of times.
He wrote this book called Magic Pill.
And he's got just a really nice takeaway.
He says, if you're under BMI of 30 and you're trying to lose weight, go fuck
yourself.
If you're between 30 and 35, there's probably a value judgment you need to make.
And if you're over 35 BMI, the cost-benefit analysis seems to sort of work in
your favor.
Yeah, people are losing more muscle and bone mass from using Ozempic than you
would typically if you were not using that.
But I think that that's just largely a selection criteria for the sort of
people that are using Ozempic to help them lose weight.
That they're so heavily calorie-restricted that they don't need to have a
fitness program.
Right.
They don't have to really change their diet.
I learned this.
Johan taught me this thing.
It's super interesting.
Gastric band surgery, after people have that, the suicide risk is pretty high.
And sometimes it's because of these surgeons that leave the gauze in or, you
know, like leave a scalpel or like a fucking cigar end in.
There's complications that can happen physically.
But the other thing that happens is these people used food as their coping
mechanism for how they would feel better.
Right.
And their ability to eat and their appetite has gone away, but their
psychological issues have not.
And they don't have a coping mechanism anymore.
They've no longer got this outlet.
Right.
And then there's the issue also, you're not going to feel as good because your
body's not absorbing nutrients correctly.
You're missing some of your stomach.
You know, it's like your stomach fills up quicker because they removed part of
it.
Like that can't be good just for overall metabolic health.
Like you're, you're, you've diminished your body's ability to break down food.
That just can't be good.
And there's other ways to do it.
There's other ways to do it.
It's like, there's a gambling term that you got to get better the same way you
got sick.
So like, say if you and I were playing a pool and we're playing for a hundred
dollars a game.
Okay.
And you're up five games.
You're up 500 bucks.
And I say next game for 500 bucks.
And you go, no, you got to get better the same way you got sick.
Oh, that's interesting.
You can't just win one game and now you're even.
And they're like, come on, what are you, pussy?
You scared?
Like, no, that's not how this works.
You lost one at a time.
You're not gaining it all back.
You went down a dark road and you missed a lot of shots and now you're fucked.
And I'm not going to let you off the hook with one easy thing.
I might do that if it's like, okay, you put up a thousand and I'll put up 300.
We'll see that.
If you stack it in my, yeah.
If you reflect in the odds where we're at financially at the moment.
You got a jacket in my favor while I'm willing to make a risk.
Yeah, it's a strange.
I think another thing with Ozempic, I have this theory that I think thin people
are more
prejudiced against people that use Ozempic than fat people are.
So typically you would say, stay with me.
I think you're right.
So you would have imagined, and this did happen, some areas of the body
positivity movement said
that it was denying their right to exist, that it was like erasure, you know,
that you're
losing your bigger brothers and sisters.
I don't know.
But they're not actually threatened in the same way as in weight people are.
So I'm aware that losing weight through Ozempic is not the same as getting in
shape, especially
if you don't do the health and fitness regime.
If you don't do the resistance exercise, you end up gone skinny fat, you know,
jowls, big
cheeks, all that stuff.
But the signal of being in shape, let's just take that as being in shape, right?
Like a normal BMI.
The signal of being in shape is usually a reliable indicator of what you've
done to
have to get that.
Right.
Disciplined, reliable, able to do hard things, self-motivated.
Consistency.
Consistent, stick to a routine, conscientious, industrious, all of these things.
So you look at somebody who's in shape and you think, I can infer from your
body a lot
of things about who you are beyond just your body.
I actually think that this is one of the huge benefits that most people don't
realize about
getting in shape if they want to attract a partner or whatever.
It's, you should, the body looks great when you take the clothes off, but what
does it
signal about your personality, about your underlying values and what you do?
Now, the problem with the introduction of easier routes to being in shape is
that it's
completely derogated the signal.
The signal is now no longer reliable.
Right.
Because previously the signal said, I've had to jump through all of these
different hoops.
Well, now, how do you know if they've jumped through all of those hoops or if
they're
just shooting a Zempic once a week?
Right.
And I think that this explains why a lot of people who are in shape have a real
visceral
reaction.
Now, sure, lots of people are concerned about the drugs.
Fen-Fen was this thing in the 90s that fucked people up.
It was speed.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a good way to lose weight.
I knew a girl who was on it.
She was a very pretty girl that was a little heavy.
And then got on the Fen-Fen and just wanted to talk to everybody.
Couldn't stop talking.
And got real thin.
I was like, this is crazy.
And then she developed a heart problem.
Yeah.
That she kept for the rest of her life, I believe.
I don't know her anymore, but I ran into her a couple years later and she was
telling me
she has a heart problem.
There's been no free lunch in weight loss ever yet.
No.
And I think that people are looking at the GLP-1s and thinking, where's the
side effect?
When's it coming?
What's it going to do?
Well, there's tons of side effects.
It depends upon the person because obviously people are very different biologically.
Everyone has a different tolerance to alcohol.
People have different tolerances to foods.
And you're going to have different tolerances to medications.
And I have good friends that have had horrible side effects from Oz-MPEC.
They tried it.
They got on it.
Terrible.
Pancreatitis.
Yeah.
I got a buddy of mine.
He was in bed for two weeks.
He was really sick.
And I know several other people that just feel terrible when they take it.
And they had to get off of it.
It was really fucking with them.
And then I know other people that have taken it.
Like a buddy of mine that works at the UFC.
We ran into him the other day.
I'm like, dude, you look fucking great.
And he's like, yeah, I got on Oz-MPEC.
Fuck it.
I just went for it.
I said, hey, man.
And he had a whole plan.
He's going to get down to a certain weight and then he's going to taper off.
Transition.
But he looked great.
He looked great.
You seen Alex Jones?
Yeah, but Alex is not on anything.
I know.
He's not on his epic at all.
He works with my friend Sean.
On it?
Yeah.
I've been watching him train.
I've been watching him train on a Tuesday.
Not watching him train.
He trains when I train.
I'm not following Alex Jones around.
And he's getting after it.
I know.
That's exactly what someone from the deep state would say.
Do you know him?
Or did you just see him there?
I spied him over the far side.
You never had a conversation with him?
I once saw him when I did Tim Poole's show in the RV outside of the Info Wars
car park.
Oh, yeah.
I did that.
Yeah.
It was the same week.
That was the first week I was ever in Austin.
It was three and a bit years ago.
I remember that live stream.
That was fun.
Alex is a lovely person.
He really is.
He's working really hard in the gym.
If he just had that one thing that he didn't talk about, that's it.
It's that one thing.
Everything else has been mostly right about.
You know what I should have said?
Alex Jones is like the fucking patient zero for if you lose weight by going to
the gym
and working out and changing your diet, people are just going to say it was a
Zen pick.
No, people think he's a totally different person.
They think they've replaced Alex Jones with someone else.
Did David Icke have a pop at Alex Jones recently?
Did he?
Who did David Icke get in trouble with, Jamie?
Was that, I feel like there was some, it was somebody else in that sort of a
world.
But yeah, I mean, if the reptile people, like it does, it gets a bit reptile-y
when
you get down to the lower body fat percentages.
David, I saw something, he got upset that I've never had him on the show.
And it's just the reptile stuff.
It's just the shapeshifter stuff.
I would still have him on.
I think fascinating just to try to pick some of those ideas apart or listen to
them.
Even if you don't believe in the ideas, what's interesting is how does somebody
arrive
at them?
That's what's fascinating to me.
When I do my show, I speak to someone, I'm like, I want to understand the
psychology of
how you have arrived at this particular position.
Well, imagine if it's real.
I mean, if shapeshifters were real, if there really are evil reptilian aliens
and they've
infiltrated our society and they've been pulling the strings forever and only a
couple of people
knew, how ridiculous would that idea be?
How ridiculous?
It would be so ridiculous.
But is an alien shapeshifter, reptile person, is that any weirder than the most
recent theory
that our entire universe is taking place inside of a black hole that's in
another universe?
Yeah, there's recent calculations that are leading these, I guess it would be
astrophysicists,
like who would be studying this?
See if you can find it, Jamie.
It's the most bizarre headline.
Because you're like, what the fuck are you saying?
Like the whole universe is inside of a black hole?
New NASA data hints we could be living inside a black hole.
Great.
Now is that, isn't that weirder than reptile people?
Because reptile people is like, reptile people is not that weird, right?
Like octopi have the ability to completely transform their appearance and
instantaneously adapt
to an environment.
Why wouldn't we assume to some super advanced species from another planet that
we would be horrified
if we saw their real face, they'd just transform and look like the queen of
England?
Yeah, and go sideways like that.
Yeah, fuck.
Do you know what a Boltzmann brain is?
Have you ever heard of this?
No.
Okay, so in an infinite universe, infinite, there is only, let's say the size
of your brain,
it's like, whatever, 20 centimeters cubed or something, maybe 30 centimeters
cubed.
Inside that space, there's only so many ways that you can put matter together
so that it
creates anything.
There's a limited number of ways that matter can come together with different
elements,
different structures, different everything like that.
So Boltzmann brain suggests that across an infinite universe, there will be a
brain the
exact same as yours, the exact structure as yours, that comes into existence
for a moment
and then goes away.
And the reason that you could be experiencing the world that you are now, all
of your memories,
your past, your history, the person that you think you are, is that you are a
Boltzmann
brain that just comes into existence and then goes.
Why do you come into existence and then go away?
Why don't you just exist somewhere else?
You could exist somewhere else, but this brain appears just spontaneously
because in an infinite
universe, there is only so many different ways that you can piece matter
together.
Right.
And it means that if you, it's the monkey's typewriter thing.
It's the exact same as that, but for the way that matter is constructed.
It's basically like a brain in a vat idea, but using infinite physics to kind
of explain it.
The way it was explained to me is that if the universe is truly infinite, not
only is there
another version of you somewhere, but there is another version of you that did
the exact
same thing you have done every step of the way.
Every time you sneezed, every hesitation before you spoke your mind, every time
you almost went
into traffic when you didn't realize their light was still red, all of those
things have
happened in the exact same order an infinite number of times and every possible
conceivable
variation.
That you were red instead of blue.
Yep.
That you turned left instead of right.
Yep.
Went trans instead of straight.
All of it.
All of it.
That you live in a totalitarian environment, that you live in a utopia, that
you, that,
you know, the, the Germans won the war that, yeah, all that, everything,
everything that
could possibly be different would be different in, in every possible scenario.
That's what infinite means.
It means it's so vast.
Like the craziest one to me was the concept that inside every galaxy in the
center of every
galaxy is a supermassive black hole.
And that supermassive black hole is approximately one half of 1% of the mass of
the entire galaxy.
If you go into that supermassive black hole, so there's hundreds of billions of
galaxies,
right?
Inside that supermassive black hole is an entirely another universe filled with
unit with, with
all sorts of different galaxies that have supermassive black holes in them.
You go into one of those, another universe filled, supermassive black holes,
another universe filled, all
supermassive black holes, each one, another universe.
It's just a wind zip file all the way down.
But why is that weirder than the universe is infinite?
Why is that weirder?
I mean, just the weirdness of what it is is so fucking insane.
The idea that it's infinite or that there's an infinite multiverses and
infinite versions
of these things inside black holes and in all sorts of ways that we haven't
even really
figured out yet.
That's, that's not that much weirder than what's real.
What's real is insane.
What's real is that the whole thing was smaller than the head of a pen.
And for no understandable reason, it expanded instantaneously and became the
universe that
you see in the sky today.
Okay.
Okay.
What, what the fuck are you saying?
Like, McKenna had a great line about that, that science requires of you but one
miracle.
The Big Bang.
It's a miracle.
It's, it's, what is it, what is it if it's not that?
I mean, it's a thing of science.
Yes.
Okay.
So if you can study all of the matter and you study all of the forces and all
the energy
and all the reasons why matter coalesces or matter expands, yes, you could
probably give
it enough time and enough quantum computing power, figure out what's causing
everything
to compress down smaller than the head of a pen and then explode.
But it's still crazy.
It's, it's, even if you can, you had some scientific explanation for it.
It's fucking insane.
I got into supervoids.
So there's, the Buettas supervoid.
Yeah.
So areas of the universe that have big absences of matter, way more than there
should be.
And the, the Buettas supervoid is the biggest one.
I think a ton 6118 or something is one of the biggest stars or one of the
biggest black
holes and then this Buettas supervoid is because you would expect homogeneity.
Yeah.
Across the universe.
Things would be distributed pretty evenly.
No.
So what's this big hole here?
Jamie, can you try and find a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a boot is, Buettas
supervoid
thing.
I love the videos that show you the size of earth and the size of our sun and
the size of
other suns.
You realize just how fucking insignificant you are.
You get to suns that are as big as our galaxy.
What the fuck?
Yeah.
What the fuck?
Yeah.
I don't know if there's suns that big, but there's definitely suns as big as
our solar
system.
Well, looking at the night sky gives you a really wonderful piece of
perspective, right?
It reminds you just how puny and insignificant you are.
I think that's a giant problem with our society is that light pollution keeps
us from seeing
that all the time.
The mysterious hole in the universe that's billions of times larger than the
Milky Way.
So go one left, a list of voids, Jamie.
Yeah, that one.
Just big holes.
Yeah.
So you should not have, it should be more evenly distributed.
Yeah.
And yeah, the Buetta is void.
You know, this huge lack.
Yeah.
In the middle of, it's so cool.
Imagine you take a left turn in a spaceship.
Fuck!
Not here.
Not the Buetta's super void.
Not again.
God damn it.
You can't land for a hundred million years.
Dude, I had Matthew McConaughey on the show toward the back end of last year
and we talked about
Interstellar's 10th year anniversary.
That show is still, that movie is still my favorite movie of all time.
It's an amazing movie.
I just saw it again like a couple weeks ago.
Me too.
It was incredible.
It's so good.
It's so weird.
Such a weird movie.
Nolan's a fucking king.
He's a wizard.
Everything that he does.
Yeah.
What's the new one?
What's his new movie?
That he's in?
The Odyssey, I think.
Oh, yeah.
What is the Odyssey?
Like the Homer.
Oh, God.
Really?
Ooh.
I don't know that story either, so I'm kind of...
Yeah, I don't either.
Part of me knows that I should have read it and part of me is glad that I didn't,
so I get
to...
I don't know how it finishes.
I don't know how it ends.
Yeah.
I think I probably read it in high school, but I don't remember it at all.
This is all we got, I think, is this picture of Matt Damon in this outfit.
Oh, he's going to kill it.
There are already complaints that it's not historically accurate.
Why?
Because it's Matt Damon?
No, because that's not what the armor would have looked like, apparently, but
he wouldn't
have been able to see his face, apparently, but...
Oh, really?
Yeah, but not if he makes a movie.
Makes for a shit movie, though.
Yeah, exactly.
Do you know what I mean?
So, like, they're complaining already.
That's the light of thinking.
Yeah, you can't always be historically accurate, I guess.
Yeah, but that's all they got so far.
Cast and...
Tom Holland, Robert Pattinson.
Nice.
Absolutely stacked.
Did you see Matt Damon do Schultz's trailer?
Yes, I did.
Yeah.
That's so fucking good.
Yeah.
I have to say, man, that Schultz's most recent special is one of the best
things.
I got to shout out Andrew Schultz.
Like, that was one of the best things that I've seen in so long.
I thought it was fucking phenomenal.
It made me cry when I saw it live here in Austin.
Twice.
I cried twice.
Wow.
And then I saw it again before I had him on the show the other week.
I was like, in the back of an Uber, and, like, trying to not let the taxi
driver see that I'm welling up.
He's talking about, his wife says something to him where she says, um, the
thing is, honey, you don't have problems.
I was like, oh, it's just so lovely.
And him talking about his experience trying to get pregnant and all of that
stuff caused me to go and get sperm count done.
I'm not trying to get anybody pregnant at the moment.
How old are you?
37.
Do you have a number where you'd like to start breeding?
Breeding.
Within the next few years, I want to start a family soon.
Do you have a gal?
Yeah, at the moment.
Yeah, I do.
How long have you been with this gal?
Six months.
Do you ever go on a trip with her?
Yeah.
Yeah, you've got to go on a long trip with them.
Well, I think six months might be a little bit early just yet.
No, if you want to find out what's up, you've got to go on a trip.
Oh, you mean to work out compatibility?
Yeah, you've got to see how they deal with travel, how they deal with stress,
how they deal with restaurants.
Can they keep up their act when you're with them 24 hours a day for weeks at a
time?
It was when I actually did do a week-long trip in Jamaica and had to go from
Montego Bay to Kingston twice to get my visa renewed.
Now, traveling through Jamaican traffic with somebody will really tell you an
awful lot.
So, yeah, you're talking about like a Navy SEAL hell week of trying to throw
difficult shit in there.
Well, you just need to see what people are like when they're with you all the
time.
Because people put on a show.
They put on a show.
You're a handsome guy.
You're successful.
They want to impress you.
They want to pretend they're something that you would love.
And then maybe they have ideas of morphing you and changing you over time.
You know, like you get a car, I think it's pretty good, but I like to update
the engine.
I do some shit to the tires, maybe change the way the interior looks.
You start changing it.
And then all of a sudden, Chris is wearing different clothes.
What's going on, Chris?
Got to be careful.
I put these glasses on.
That's why it happened.
But, yeah, I decided to go and get a sperm count thing done.
You know what a varicoseal is?
No.
Okay, dude, this is something that I think every single guy needs to know about.
So, it's basically when you go through puberty, the way that the veins sort of
form that blow heat off from your balls,
they can form in a way where they just don't get rid of the heat that
efficiently.
How they don't cool your balls good.
Not enough.
And it's in 15% of men, so it's super, super common.
But 50% of men that go to urologists have got this.
And I go in and I've had these balls my entire life.
I've had these balls.
Thank you.
They're not transplants.
I've had these balls since puberty.
And I found out at the age of 36, oh, you've got a medium varicoseal.
So, the mad thing about this is, you'll know this, if you take testosterone, it
plummets your sperm count.
So, typically, testosterone and sperm kind of work against each other in that
kind of a direction.
This is the one thing where if you get it fixed, both go up.
So, the mean change in testosterone is 180 points.
How do they fix it?
They just – it's surgery.
It's a small surgery where they do an incision in your groin and they just fix
the vasculature.
Balls and surgery are two things that I don't like together.
I like both of them.
I don't think they should be –
Never the twain she'll meet.
Yeah.
Ball surgery is scary.
Do you know that if you get your – you can get a dick transplant if, like,
you lose your dick,
but you cannot get ball transplants.
You know why?
No.
Because you will carry the DNA of the original person.
So, say if I die and you get my balls, you will have my DNA.
You will have my kids.
So, why can't I have your balls?
Well, you could if I gave you permission, maybe.
But it's unethical.
Why don't we swap one ball each?
It's like tossing a coin.
See whose kids make it.
Oh, it was Lefty that day.
Lefty.
Lefty was the one that came out that day.
God damn it, all my kids are Chris's.
What the fuck?
You could come out speaking British.
That would be funny if we both – like, if you had an elective surgery to swap
balls with a good buddy.
Like, I love you so much, I want to swap a ball with you.
Yep.
And we both swap –
We just don't know which one it's going to be today.
You never know.
It's like – because I had a gay couple that were friends that lived down the
street from me,
and they had a kid with a surrogate, and they shot their jizz into a cup and
mixed it up.
So, they didn't know who's going to be the one who has the kid.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Two men, one cup.
They had to do it twice, too, because the first time, the lady kept the kid.
They paid her.
They did the whole thing.
At the end of it, she decided she wanted to keep the baby.
Dude, the ethics of surrogacy are really interesting.
It's weird.
It's a weird thing.
You're hiring someone to have your baby for you, and then wealthy people are
doing it so they don't get their cooch stretched out.
That was the Kardashian approach.
Allegedly, that's why she did it.
Well, maybe she just didn't want to carry babies anymore.
She had a couple of them the normal way.
But it's like so much of what the child experiences in the womb, it leads to
this, I would imagine, this bonding thing with the woman.
The baby's inside of you.
You remember feeling the baby inside of you.
It grows inside of you.
Then it comes out of you, and you raise it, and it breastfeeds.
It's like this bond is – I understand surrogacy if someone can't get pregnant,
if this is the only way you can have kids.
I'm not saying don't do it, but I'm saying it's fucking strange because this
other person is whatever anxiety they have, fear, their cortisol levels, if
they have domestic abuse in their house.
All that information is being transferred to the child.
Pregnancy doesn't just make a kid.
It also makes a mother.
Yeah.
And it's dangerous.
I'm so – I mean, test you, babies.
What happens if we can just create artificial wombs?
You know, there's something that's weird.
I know that people don't get – they don't choose to be born, but somebody
chooses whether or not these two sets of DNA are going to come together.
If you've just got sperm donor after sperm donor and egg donor after egg donor
and artificial wombs, it gets to the stage where people kind of aren't choosing
who's coming into reality that much anymore.
Well, that is definitely the future.
I mean, look at plummeting sperm counts.
Look at rising miscarriage rates.
Look at the problems that people are having with microplastics and the
disruption of the endocrine system and pesticides and herbicides and all these
different ubiquitous chemicals that are affecting people's sperm counts and
fertility.
It's a real factor.
And it's plummeting.
If you look at the – if you look at, like, human beings from the last 60, 70
years and you look at males in America, where their sperm count used to be and
where it is now, it's rapidly decreasing.
There's a lot of factors, sedentary lifestyle, processed foods, but there's
also environmental factors that seem to be altering the actual way a child
develops in the womb.
And this is Dr. Shanna Swan's work.
Countdown.
Yeah, which is an incredible – just – it's an incredible book, but it's
just an incredible fact that the plastics that we use from microwave foods and
water bottles and all that stuff is literally changing the development of
children.
It's changing the size of their testicles, the size of their penises, the –
Anogenital distance.
Yeah, yeah, the taint shrinks.
It's really crazy stuff, and it's – it replicates what happens in mammals
when they – when they do these studies with rats and hamsters and same things
happen.
A third of all children globally are going to be obese by 2050.
Jesus.
That's the current trajectory.
And one billion people worldwide are obese.
So the number one form of malnutrition globally is obesity, not starvation.
There's twice as many people that are obese than are starving.
That's crazy.
If that's not a comment on problems of abundance as opposed to problems of
scarcity.
Yeah.
It's not even abundance, though.
It's the food is so calorie-rich and filled with shit, you know, that you just
– you get so fat so quick.
Like, if you're eating nothing but junk food and drinking nothing but soda, as
I sit here with a large Diet Coke, which I usually don't drink, but I do
occasionally.
That is – like, a Diet Coke at least doesn't have the calories.
But if you're having a large Coke like that – like, if you have a Coke like
this – what is this, a liter?
This is probably a liter.
750, maybe, or a liter?
Yeah, it's a liter.
So how much sugar is in one liter of Coca-Cola?
Let's find that out.
But there's nothing in that one, right?
Nothing.
Which is why it's a Diet Coke.
Yeah, it's just brain cancer.
Donald Rumsfeld-approved brain cancer.
94.7 grams of sugar.
That is so much sugar.
94.7 grams.
And people polish these things off every day.
Someone's polishing off a two-liter of Mountain Dew listening to this as we
speak.
So that's probably double that.
So that's hundreds, hundreds of grams of sugar.
The big gulps.
The average American is fatter than the average American pig now.
It's true.
It's true.
Average American man, 28% body fat.
Average American woman, 40% body fat.
Average American pig, 15% to 25% body fat.
Oh, my God.
Yep.
I would have thought it would be higher than 28%.
I think we're doing pretty good.
For guys?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I guess it's offset by, like, Brian Johnson and all of the Olympic people
that are just-
Shredded folks.
Super shredded.
Yeah, exactly.
And then there was that other thing about you talking about kids, that some
huge percentage of 18 to 24-year-olds couldn't join the military.
Yeah.
Like, 70% because of mental health or obesity or drug use or something.
And half of them had two or more of these excuses for why you couldn't do it.
And I think if you track over time the amount of military service that people
have had, so much less.
Yeah.
It's so much less.
And I wonder how many of the issues that we're seeing, even women being
attracted to guys, I think that what you want to do as a guy is try and signal,
again, the same as going to the gym.
Reliable, orderly, conscientious.
I can be on time.
I can do hard things.
This is one of the proposed explanations for the baby boom was that a lot of
men that did come back from war were signaling their eligibility, signaling how
reliable they could be.
And it made it easier for women to be attracted in that way.
That makes sense.
I mean, imagine a woman, you're going to get pregnant, and so you're going to
be, you could work for a little while, but towards the end you're not going to
be able to work.
And then after the child, it's going to be very difficult to work.
So you're reliant on this other person that, like, how well do you know this
person?
Did you do that 10-day vacation in Jamaica with that guy?
Did you drive from Montego Bay to Kingston twice in bad traffic?
Do you know what happens when he makes mistakes?
Does he blame other people or does he apologize?
Like, who is he?
You know, because all that shit's going to come up when you get four hours
sleep because the baby's crying.
And then, you know, maybe he doesn't like his job anymore.
He wants to quit.
And you're like, you can't quit, motherfucker.
You have to feed us.
You have to take care of a family now.
You're not going to just quit.
What are you talking about?
You don't like your job?
Show up.
And I can't imagine relying on another person like that.
I mean, this is why women are so picky.
Like, when you see that 80% of the women are attracted to 20% of the men, and
that's what that is.
What did you expect?
What did you expect?
It's hard to have your shit together.
It's hard to be kicking ass in this fucking complicated, bizarre world that we
live in.
It's hard.
So, for a woman, of course, they're going to grab, what about personality?
Yeah, you're a fucking lazy bitch.
That's part of your personality.
Part of the reason why you're not successful at 40 years of age has to be you.
Has to be.
Some of it has to be.
I mean, it could be a fucking avalanche of bad luck, one thing after the other.
But I would like to see that you're making progress towards a better direction.
But if you're stuck in this mindset of, you know, the world fucks me over, it's
like, no one's going to want to be with you.
No one's going to want to have children with you.
No one's going to be willing to rely on you to support a family.
Like, you have to get your shit together.
And you have to also be attractive, which is just dumb luck.
Like, you have the dumb luck of genetics.
You got a good face.
Ooh.
You know, you got a good body.
A lot of that's genetics, too.
You know, like, what they like and what they don't like is mostly about
breeding.
It's mostly about is this person reliable to breed with.
It's interesting to think about the – you mentioned earlier on about going to
the gym is right wing and liking fast cars is right wing and all the rest of it.
The number of liberal women that are struggling, I think, to find an eligible
partner is going up because they just can't find a guy that will hold the door
open for them,
that will treat them like a lady, that will try and be the protector, provider,
procreator thing.
You go, you're talking about a conservative.
You're talking about somebody who's more traditional in that way.
And I get worried.
You know, I sort of talk a lot about this stuff on the show.
And I get worried about not helping men to improve in this sort of zero-sum
view of empathy that if you give some attention to men and the way that they're
struggling, that it takes it away from some other more deserving group.
So a lot of the time, if someone's falling behind, 50 years ago, Title IX gets
introduced, right, for women.
It's not enough women in higher education.
It's not enough women expediting them through socioeconomic status.
50 years later, they've blown the fucking roof off the glass ceiling.
It doesn't exist.
Two women for every one man completing a four-year U.S. college degree by 2030.
Women earn way more than men do in their 20s.
Way more.
And now, how are you – it's going to be difficult for you to find an eligible
partner as you begin to climb up your own socioeconomic ladder as you get
higher and higher up.
You look across, and there are fewer and fewer men over there.
And what you think is, okay, well, typically, if a group is falling behind in
society, we don't tell them to pick themselves up by their bootstraps.
We spend billions of money in taxpayer-funded charities and think tanks to try
and work out what's going on and to try and bring them along for the ride.
That's not happening with men because vestigially, for so long, men had it so
good.
And now it's – I don't know.
It feels like twisting the knife in some sort of karmic retribution in a way.
Like this is penance that you're paying.
But a lot of guys – you can look at the number of CEOs and, sure, guys that
outperform on the top end, yep.
But that's not necessarily due to privilege.
It's because putting yourself in that position to do what you need to do to get
yourself to the position of being a founder, being a CEO, running a successful
company is so fucking insane that most women would just choose to not go and do
that.
You're talking about outliers.
Evolutionary psychology says that men are nature's playthings, that there's
more variability.
There's more male geniuses, but there's also more male retards.
And it's all well and good, pointing to the number of CEOs and Jeff Bezos and
Elon Musk and all the rest of it.
That doesn't help the guy who is really struggling and has had that run of bad
luck and has been really struggling trying to work on himself.
And, yeah, if women have a problem, a lot of the time we say, what can we do to
fix society?
Any other group.
But if men are struggling, we say, what is it that men are doing where they can't
fix themselves?
And in some ways, that's inspiring.
Like, guys want that sense of, like, I can fucking do this.
I can do this.
But it denies that there's structural problems.
I think the education system for young boys is really, really tough.
Getting them to sit in a classroom still for six hours a day, it seems like
females are just better at doing that.
Young girls are more effective at a sort of brain-based economy, highlighting
and planning ahead of the homework that they've got to do and the assignments
and stuff like that.
And you just roll that forward.
Two women for every one man completing a four-year U.S. college degree.
And I'm not saying, oh, let's rip women out of the classroom and out of the
boardroom and put them back into the kitchen.
Like, obviously not.
Obviously, that's not what either of us are saying.
What do you think is the cause of it?
Like, what do you think is the reason why more men aren't succeeding and
getting college degrees and more men aren't going out and making as much money
in their 20s?
I think that the current environment does not necessarily lend itself to the
disposition that men have got.
So they're less conscientious than women from a personality standpoint on
average.
That means that it's really difficult comparatively on average for you to be
able to remind yourself that you need to do the sort of homework.
Men are more predisposed to addiction.
They're more predisposed to using recreational drugs.
They're more predisposed to being in jail, to all of the sort of gang stuff
that people get drawn into.
It's just more likely for guys.
There are more routes that men can be pulled away in that sort of a manner.
And on top of it, I don't think that there is a particularly inspiring vision
for what men is.
But you said earlier on about fitness right wing, fast cars right wing.
There was this thread on Reddit, I think, in a left-leaning forum that said,
people of the left, can you give me a good example of who you think a positive
male role model would be?
And the top-voted one was Aragon from Lord of the Rings.
What about Fabio?
You've had to go to a fantasy land in order to be able to find somebody who's
sufficiently pure.
And I think that this is one of the issues that we see on the left, which is
there is no level of purity, or the level of purity you need to be able to get
to is so high.
It doesn't exist.
How many people have gone from left to right?
I left the left type thing.
Quite a few.
How many people have gone from right to left?
Very few.
Why?
Because if you have got a slightly fettered past, if you maybe said things in
the past that didn't agree with where we are at now, the right will welcome you
with open arms.
But the left won't.
Why do you think that is?
I think that there is a level of puritanism on the left where they are unprepared
to accept people who have had positions that they don't agree with.
There seems to be this odd purity spiral where they're constantly trying to
point out people who are no longer agreeing with the ideology du jour of the
modern world.
What do you think?
Why do you think it is?
I think that's probably a factor.
I also think that corporate America, the whole structure of it with human
resources and people working together, it's just like it's not necessarily what
men want.
What men want, if you want men to work in the best environment possible for men,
they would work with mostly men.
And they would probably be able to speak and communicate in a way that they did
on Mad Men.
You know, they'd act like men.
Like men like to act like men.
Most men that are involved in corporate life act like some strange character
that is what a man is supposed to be.
Especially if you're supposed to espouse all the latest social justice, you
know, whatever the mantra is that you have to repeat.
If you have to rigidly adhere to an ideology in order to fit in with your
corporate environment, you're going to do that.
And you're going to be trapped in that.
And you're going to just desperately want some escape.
That's why CEOs wind up going to dominatrix and getting fucking ball gagged and
kicked in the balls and shit.
Like, what do you think that is?
It's like they need something, something wild to escape from the mundane
existence that they have in the corporate world.
That's the person that's in control all the time.
So privately, I need to be out of control.
It's just not compatible for most men.
Like that type of environment, a work office environment, it's not compatible.
Nobody wants to do that.
What you want is the rewards of that.
You want the money.
You know, you want success.
You want status.
You want all those things.
You want the corner office.
But what you don't want is to work in that environment.
If you could choose to make the same kind of money doing things that you love
to do, having fun.
Like if all these corporate CEOs could make as much money playing golf, I bet
they would play golf.
I don't think they really want to be doing that.
They're doing that because it's the way to succeed and the way to make money.
And it feels like hell.
It feels like hell.
You're stuck in traffic every day.
You're stuck in the office.
You're not working eight hours a day if you want to really make it.
And this is like why the wage gap between men and women was such an insidious
lie.
Because they were always saying women make 75 cents to every dollar a man makes.
And people repeat that without understanding what it actually means.
It's job choices and hours worked.
Those are the primary factors that lead to men earning more money than women.
It's not a man and a woman are doing the same job and someone rips off the
woman by only giving her 75 cents to what the man works.
If that was the case –
Everybody would employ women.
You would only employ women because women, you'd pay them less.
They do a better job anyway, right, ladies?
So there you go.
It's nonsense.
But that thing that Obama repeated on television, I remember watching him say
that, going, he knows better than this.
This is bullshit.
This is a bullshit statistic.
But it's a heartstring statistic.
It plays –
Good headline.
Yeah.
It plays on your – what you want to believe rather than what's true.
And women have to take time off for maternity leave.
They have to – you know, if they get pregnant, it's going to significantly
impact the amount of hours they're willing to work.
They might not want to do the job anymore.
Once they're raising their children, if their husband is making enough money,
they probably want to quit.
They want to be at home with their kids.
It's a normal thing.
And then a lot of women who are career corporate women are shamed for wanting
to stay home with their children.
Yeah.
Oh, you've been conned by the patriarchy into being a domestic prostitute.
Oh.
So I was talking to – was it Schultz that said this?
I think it was.
He was telling me on the show.
He said that his wife used to work at Google, I think.
She's like a super high-powered, real smart lady.
And she used to bump into her old colleagues in the supermarket when they were
together.
And the classic question that somebody that's in the career trenches asks
somebody else is, oh, so what are you doing now?
You left work.
What are you doing now?
And Schultz said this sentence that his wife replied with would fucking kill
him.
She says, oh, I'm just a mom.
He said it's the just that really hurts.
Yeah.
I'm just a mom.
Well, that's how you feel like you're supposed to admit that you're just a mom.
That fucking hurts, dude, to derogate the people that are literally raising the
next generation.
Yeah.
That's another point, actually, about sort of men falling behind.
I think it seems like young boys are more negatively impacted by fatherless
homes than young girls are.
So any boy that grows up in an intact, a non-intact household is more likely to
end up in jail or prison than they are to complete college in the U.S.
Yeah.
Any non-intact that's adopted, step-parent, single parent, any non-intact home,
they're more likely to end up in jail or in prison than they are to complete
college.
Yeah.
And the same statistic is not true for girls.
And this, again, the zero sumness of the, so what are you saying?
Are you saying that we need to hold girls back?
It's like, no.
You do not need to hold one group back in order to be able to raise another one
up.
And we spent 50 years really pedestalizing and helping take the reins off of
young girls so that socioeconomically they can look after themselves.
They're no longer financial prisoners of their partner, which is a big deal.
You look at the divorce statistics from the past and proclaim it as some, you
know, amazing cultural outgrowth.
And you go, how many women stayed in those relationships because they fucking
couldn't afford to leave?
Right.
They had no other option to do that.
That's scary.
That's scary.
That's why women are so picky.
And they should be.
Yeah.
That's, yeah.
It's also crazy that we put value in our lives on money above everything,
including above doing a good job raising your children.
You put the money that you earn above that and you just get daycare during the
day.
I'll be home at six.
That's fine.
That's plenty of time to be with my kid.
And there's a lot of people that live their life by that.
And their ledger, when they look at the amount of money that they've earned,
that's the reward.
It's the greatest metric in the world, though.
It's the most easy to optimize thing.
Like, I can tell you the size of the house that I live in.
I can tell you how much money I earn.
I can tell you what the car is like that I drive.
But I can't tell you how much peace I have when my head hits the pillow at
night.
Right.
I can't tell you what the quality of the relationship between me and my wife or
me and my kids is.
Yeah.
I can't tell you how much time I got to spend in a hammock last week.
You know, these are the things I think that if you were able to metricate, if
you were able to make it a game, people would be able to pay an awful lot more
attention to it.
Yeah.
But the money is the best game in the world.
It's literally transferred.
Currency.
Exchange.
You can exchange it.
I know what your wealth is compared with that guy in Japan, compared with that
dude in Russia, compared with this person that's Australian.
Whole world.
It's the best game ever created.
And it's the game that so many people use to show their value.
I mean, it's not just the richness of your life, the happiness that you have,
the fulfilled feeling that you have when you do whatever it is that you do.
We feel like you have a sense of purpose.
No, that's not, can't quantify that.
Can't measure it.
Can't put it on a scale.
It's useless.
Meanwhile, it's the most important thing.
The most important thing is satisfaction.
Satisfaction in your life, community, love, friendship, happiness, a sense of
purpose.
Like you enjoy what you do.
That's so important for life.
If you are just doing something you don't want to do just for money, you live
in hell.
And that's most people.
Most people live in this like dull hell.
And they try to have fun while they're at work.
They try to, you know, have people that they talk to at work.
Hopefully you make some good friends at work and you can enjoy your chitter
chatter at the water cooler.
But the reality of that life is just mostly suck.
There's a lot of problems, I think, that people that are driven face that don't
get that much sympathy.
So I had this idea that type A people have type B problems and type B people
have type A problems.
So insecure overachievers need to learn how to chill out.
And lazy people need to learn how to work hard and be more disciplined.
And, you know, most people that listen to shows like yours or mine are probably
some version of type A, like a kind of walking anxiety disorder harness for
productivity.
That's a great definition.
It is.
It's really accurate.
I think the thing that type A people realize is that if you're type A, you get
very little sympathy because a outwardly successful but miserable person is way
less, always appears to be in a much more preferential position than a content
being lazy but on the verge of bankruptcy one.
Right.
So problems of opportunity will always get less sympathy than ones of scarcity.
Like one feels like a choice and the other feels like a limitation.
One is like a bourgeois luxury and the other is like a systemic imposition.
You know, I need someone to teach me how to switch off and relax feels dopaminergic
and opulent and addicted and privileged.
I need someone to teach me how to work harder feels noble and upward aiming and
like you're supporting the downtrodden.
Like every underdog movie in history has a training montage of some guy down on
his luck that gets saved by the right woman or a Japanese dude that teaches him
to wash cars or whatever it is.
And through grit and spit and sawdust, he sorts himself out and he fixes his
life.
No movie explains how to log out of Slack at 6pm or spend a day at the beach
without feeling guilty.
And so, yeah, I think in that sense, type A people may objectively have better
lives, but subjectively, they're ravaged by the sense that they've never done
enough.
They wake up every single morning feeling as if they're already trying to repay
some productivity debt.
And only if they dance through the day completely perfectly, nail every single
task, can they go to bed not feeling like a waste man.
Yeah.
That's where they're at.
Congratulations.
You might be very successful.
You also might be very miserable.
You're most likely going to be miserable.
That's the cold, hard reality of most CEOs.
Most really wealthy people, when you see them pull up in the yacht, they're
fucking living hell.
I think when you look at people that are super outlier performers, you should
probably, your first emotion should not be envy.
It should be pity.
You should think, what's that person, what's it like inside of that person to
drive them to do what they did to themselves, to put them in that position?
What's their background like?
What happened in their childhood?
What do they think about their own sense of self-worth?
Yeah.
Or how much Adderall are they on?
Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.
The old performance enhancer.
Yeah, the testosterone for the businessman.
It's not just performance enhancer.
I think it changes the way you approach things.
I think-
Have you ever taken it?
No.
No?
No, I'm scared of speed.
I'm scared of anything that I think I would really like.
Yeah, you haven't done cocaine for the same reason, right?
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I was very lucky when I was in high school.
I knew some people that had problems with it.
Big warning sign.
Yeah.
Well, and back then I was very driven.
Like, I didn't even party, really.
I only wanted to get good at martial arts.
I was so driven that I didn't want to do anything that would interfere with
anything else.
What was it that drove you?
Why?
Why this drive for so long?
Ah, there's probably a lot of factors.
I mean, I got into it because I didn't want to get picked on because I didn't
know how to fight and I would be nervous around bullies.
I didn't know what to do.
And I'm like, this, I don't like this feeling at all.
Like, so I will become what everyone's afraid of.
So I'll do that.
And then when I got into it, I realized that, first of all, I realized that I
could get really good at things.
I realized that whatever drive that I had and whatever thing about fighting,
which was so scary to me, why was so appealing to me at the same time.
And I realized that it was like a vision quest.
I was on this quest to try to figure out how to harness my potential.
And what better way than to do something that's very difficult and very scary?
And then if you could get really good at something very difficult and very
scary, you could probably master life.
So you had this gateway drug through martial arts that was a proof to you that
you could self-author?
Yes.
Yeah.
A proof that I wasn't a loser.
For me, it was like that I could be successful.
I've heard you say that before about the loser thing.
Where did that fear come from?
Did you feel powerless as a kid at some point?
Yeah.
I'm sure it comes from broken home, moving around a lot, a lot of factors.
There's a lot of various factors.
But it's also just the existential angst of being a young man.
Like, they're looking for purpose.
Like, who am I?
What do I do?
Am I good at anything?
Like, what gives me value?
And for me, when I started doing martial arts, it was the first time that I was
respected.
And not just respected.
Like, I remember the first time I realized that people would gather around when
I fought.
And I was like, whoa, this is kind of crazy.
Like, they specifically want to watch me fight.
And that was a big deal to me.
It was like that I was so good that people were gathering around.
Really, it was they wanted to see something horrible.
They wanted to see someone get head kicked.
You know, and they knew I did that a lot.
Reliably, you could kick someone in the head.
I was pretty good at it.
And so that changed me.
It changed my self-reflection.
It changed who I was.
I wasn't a loser.
Now I was an extreme winner and really good at it and super disciplined and
driven beyond anything that I thought was possible before I'd done that.
I never had, like, that kind of focus before I got into martial arts.
But martial arts demanded that kind of focus because you can't pretend.
There's no pretending you're good.
You have to be good.
There's no pretending you're fast.
You have to be fast.
There's no pretending to be technical.
You have to be perfect.
Your technique has to be perfect because you're fighting against other trained
killers.
Like, you're not fighting.
Your weaknesses will be revealed.
You're going to get hurt.
And I saw so many people get hurt.
It doesn't matter about what you tweeted.
It doesn't matter about your beliefs stepping onto the mat.
Your fucking rainbow flag that you have on your t-shirt.
Nobody gives a shit.
So on that, I think that's a very common pattern, especially for young people
who feel a little bit helpless in their life.
Yeah.
I find a vector that makes me feel worthy.
You know, the most common story of high performers, I think, is that I needed
to do something to get the world to recognize me.
One of the problems, I think, as people grow up is that they internalize this
belief that the only way that the world will value me is if I can continue to
perform at this high level.
And I think that there comes – some people can imbibe a type of insecurity in
that if I stop doing these things, if I stop being as impressive to the world,
it's going to deny me its love.
That it is – I'm going to be unwanted, unworthy.
And I think that this – talking about the high performer thing, talking about
the pity of the CEO.
Go, how much are you running towards something that you want and how much are
you running away from something that you fear, that there's not enoughness?
Right, right, right.
And the way I looked at it and the way I was taught was that martial arts are a
vehicle for developing your human potential.
And that through the incredible struggle of training and competing, you will
learn more about your ability to excel at anything.
You know, this is the Miyamoto Musashi path.
And I think that the problem with anything extreme but also fleeting and
athletic performance is fleeting.
If you're – at the very best, you have a couple of decades at the very best.
If you're really lucky, you have a couple of decades to define you as a
competitor.
But then your body will give out.
Your age will win.
The beating that your body takes from all the training and all the competing,
eventually you're not going to be able to perform at that level anymore and you're
going to fall off.
And you see it with fighters.
It's really hard with professional fighters where their whole identity is
wrapped up in being a champion.
Their whole identity is being the king of the hill.
And then they're no longer the king of the hill.
And sometimes it happens very rapidly.
Sometimes it happens over the course of just one or two fights.
You go from being the pound for pound best in the world to a guy who nobody
thinks is going to win the title again.
Like that.
So six months later, you're in a totally different reality.
You're in a depressed reality.
And then maybe you are physically depressed because maybe you got really hurt
in your last fight.
So you're probably suffering from some brain damage.
So you've got endocrine disruption.
Your pituitary gland is probably fucked.
Your cortisol levels are through the roof.
Your hormone levels are all fucked up.
You might have a hard time losing weight.
You know, you're tired and depressed because your levels are all fucked up and
your hormones because you basically got your brains beat in six months ago.
Your capacity to fix the very problem has been taken away from you.
Yeah.
And you see it sometimes with one fight.
You know, with a fighter, you see like Tony Ferguson is like my favorite
example, who was the boogeyman, the lightweight division of the UFC for years.
For years, he was the guy who was like this unstoppable force that had bottomless
cardio, never stopped coming after you and was just hell bent on destruction
and beat the fuck out of everybody.
Beat the fuck out of everybody for years until he fought Justin Gaethje.
And Justin Gaethje beat him so bad, he was never the same again.
He was never the same guy again.
He went from being a favorite in the Justin Gaethje fight, I think he was a
slight favorite going into that fight, to after the fight was over, he got
stopped in the later rounds and never, never recovered.
You think that was a physical thing or a mental thing?
Both.
More physical than mental.
Because I think Tony's mental, his fortitude is unstoppable.
He's just got this mindset, but I don't think his body responded the way he
looked different.
I saw it on a stair machine with David Goggins, and Goggins is screaming at him
to keep going.
He gets off, throws up in a bag and gets back on the stair machine.
No, he's an animal.
His mind is unstoppable.
But at a certain point in time, particularly when you're being tested, right?
So you're doing the USADA protocol at the time, and now it's a drug-free sport.
So there's no peptides, there's nothing that can aid you in recovery.
There's, you know, you can't supplement your hormones, you can't recharge your
hormone development.
You can't, there's so many things that you can't do because they are, in fact,
performance enhancers that would help you recover.
You know, if a guy like Tony Ferguson, after that fight, got on hormone
replacement, got on testosterone, got his levels up pretty high, got to a point
where he could train as hard, he probably wouldn't have had the slide that he
had.
I think part of the slide is that everybody has to be natural.
And when you're natural and you get beat up a few times, you're not the same
person anymore.
And I've seen it many, many times.
One bad beating and the guy's done.
It's a big thing in boxing.
In boxing, everybody points to, uh, Meldrick Taylor is one of the best examples.
Fought Julio Cesar Chavez.
Chavez broke him down in the fight and then stopped him with like a couple
seconds to go in the last round.
Dropped him and the referee called the fight with a couple seconds to go in the
last round.
And Meldrick Taylor was never the same again.
And he did interviews after the fight and the interviews after the fight, like
a couple of years later, pronounced slurring in his words.
Um, a very clear deterioration of his reflexes and his speed, very clear
deterioration in his ability to take a punch and even avoid punches.
His reflexes were off.
Have you ever felt any TBI stuff from your heritage of doing striking?
No, not really.
I'm sure it made me impulsive.
I'm sure.
I probably got the right amount of brain damage to succeed in life.
I think so.
Because it made me, uh, not, I'm not very risk averse.
I like risks.
I enjoy them.
I get a thrill out of, uh, taking chances.
I'm not afraid to fail.
I don't mind because I know that failure produces some of the best results.
Every time I've ever failed at anything, I've always, the humiliation and the
pain of it has always forced me to work so much harder.
Failure in comedy is a gigantic blessing.
If you have one good bombing, ooh, it sucks, like sucking a thousand dicks in
front of your mother.
But when it's over, you realize that that can happen.
You fucking tighten up your battleship.
Some of the biggest, like, growth leaps that I've seen in comics and, and even
in fighters is a humiliating loss.
Yeah.
There's a special category of lesson that I've been thinking about.
It's one that you can only learn by sort of having gone through it.
And I think that bombing on stage or having a poor performance, I think that
that's one of them.
So I think most of them you only learn by going through them.
You learn something from watching other people's mistakes, which is why I've
never done cocaine.
But maybe if I did do cocaine, I would have been sober a long time ago and I
would have had a much better understanding of the abyss.
Cocaine is a performance enhancer.
Yeah, it's strange, you know, no matter sort of how arduous or costly or effortful
it's going to be for us to find out these things for ourselves.
For some reason, we insist on disregarding the mountains of warnings that we
have from our elders, historical catastrophes and public scandals and film and
TV.
And we think some version of, yeah, that might be true for them, but not for me.
It's the like, watch me do this, mom mentality.
And yeah, we decide to learn the hard lessons the hard way over and over again.
And unfortunately, it always seems to be the big things.
You know, it's never about how to charmingly introduce yourself at a cocktail
party or put up a level set of shelves.
It's never that.
It's always, we spend most of our lives learning firsthand the warnings that
previous generations gave us over and over again.
And then one day you're like, I'm going to throw all my money in crypto.
And then you will know about that.
But that's one of them.
One of them is money won't make you happy.
Yeah.
Fame isn't going to fix your self-worth.
You don't love that pretty girl.
She's just hot and difficult to get.
Yeah.
Yep.
You will regret working too much.
Worrying isn't aiding your performance.
Nothing is as important as you think it is when you're thinking about it.
Like over and over again, you should see your parents more.
All your worries are a waste of time.
Like these, it's perfectly okay to cut toxic people out of your life.
Like these are so trite.
They're such basic bitch insights because everybody has heard them before.
But if they're so basic, why does everyone who ends up arriving at them talk
about them as if they've just had religious revelation?
You know what I mean?
Yes.
Like they have this fervor to them about why it is so important for you to
listen that we couldn't have seen this coming.
How could we have seen this coming?
It's like it is in every single fable and story from the rest of time.
And I think that one of the reasons this happens is if you don't have a thing,
looking at somebody who has that thing, they have the solution to your problem.
If you don't have money, you believe that by having money, all of your problems
would be fixed.
If you don't have fame, you believe that fame is the thing that's going to get.
If you don't have the goal, you think that getting the goal is going to do
those things.
And it is only by getting there and looking back and going, the issue that I
thought would be fixed by getting the thing wasn't fixed.
Fuck, I need to look deeper.
So not only do we refuse to sort of learn the lessons, if you talk about this
on the internet, if you have a rich person on who says, you know what, man, I
earned a couple of billion dollars and I'm still pretty miserable.
You bring some actress on, she says, you know, all of the fame and stuff like
that, it really didn't fix my self-worth.
The internet hates that.
Yeah.
It's a very contentious point to bring up.
And I think that we believe our particular mental makeup would allow us to
dance through this minefield, right?
No, no, no.
My unique inner landscape would be solved by this problem.
Especially men.
Watch me dance through this minefield, avoid all of the tripwires, do a couple
of pirouettes, and I won't kick any of them.
Yeah.
And then you kick one.
And you realize, oh, fuck, this worry of mine was so much more deeply rooted
than the thing that's from outside.
But I genuinely believe that you kind of need to learn it yourself.
I don't think you can.
I've got Naval on the show on Sunday.
He's great.
He's fucking phenomenal.
I think that, by the way, the one that you did with him in 2019 is the best
podcast episode of all time.
Really?
That two hours.
Yeah, it's just one I've gone back.
Maybe it's just like personally meaningful to me, but I must have listened to
that, I think, more than any other CF.
Very wise.
He's a very wise person.
Although he did tell me that if he could invest more money in Clubhouse, he
would have.
And I was, I was, we were talking on the phone.
I was like, dude, I think this is just bad podcasting.
I don't think, I don't think there's, but Clubhouse took off during the
pandemic because people found themselves at home.
And, you know, it's kind of cool to be able to hop on to a call with a bunch of
other people.
And you're basically sharing ideas of people you've never met before and
intellectually sparring.
And people loved it.
But I was like, bro.
When the world reopens.
I did it with Tim Dillon.
We did an episode once.
And he was like, yeah, it goes out there.
And then, you know, no one ever has.
I go, bullshit.
People are recording this right now.
I go, it's going to be online.
And he was online immediately.
Immediately.
I go, this is nonsense.
It's like the mothership, making people put their phones in the bag, but you
can reopen the bag.
It's like that.
If you could reopen the bag.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you can reopen the bag.
It's like, oh, I'm allowed to do this and just take it.
It's like, wait, wait, everything's not.
Yeah.
It's a real interesting one.
But he's got this quote where he says, it's far easier to achieve our material
desires than it is to renounce them.
Oh.
But it's much easier for you to drive a beat up Chevy truck if your last car
was a Ferrari.
Sure.
Yeah.
Because you've closed that loop, that what if.
I wonder if it is the money.
I wonder if it is the fame.
I wonder if it is the.
But it depends on the circles you're keeping, too.
Because if you're keeping circles that are valuing those items that show, like,
you've achieved milestones, you know, there's a bunch of people that they, you
know, you don't have a Maybach?
Oh.
You don't have a this?
Keeping up with the Joneses is a hell of a fucking drink.
Oh, your house is not in the best neighborhood.
I was thinking about why I'm attracted to some of my friends, like, why I like
to spend time with some over others.
And I sort of realized this interesting dynamic that I hadn't really heard get
talked about much, which is we think that we want to be charismatic.
Like, we think we want to step into a room.
Our stories are electric.
And our energy, the aura, everyone's super impressed by us.
I didn't actually notice that that was the sort of people that I was choosing
to hang around with.
There's this story about Jenny Jerome, who was Winston Churchill's mother.
And she gets to dine with William Gladstone and Benjamin Disraeli, the prime
minister and the opponent, one night after the other.
And she says, after I left the dinner with Gladstone, I left feeling like he
was the smartest person in England.
And after I left the dinner with Disraeli, I felt like I was the smartest woman
in England.
And I think this really helps to explain why we gravitate towards certain
people.
Some people feel interesting.
And around some people, we feel interesting.
Yeah.
And that's my favorite sort of person.
I think charisma, being charismatic, being energizing, it's the sort of thing
lots of people are seduced by.
They love the sound of it.
But it's kind of like developing real charisma.
Like Matthew McConaughey has to sit opposite this guy and he's fucking oozing
charisma.
But it's way easier to be interested than it is to be interesting.
And it gets you probably 80%, 90% of the way there just by caring and asking
questions.
Yeah.
Thinking, huh, I want to know what you think about this.
Right.
That's cool, Joe.
Tell me more about that.
And why do you think that you're built that way?
Right.
And it helps.
I mean, people just love to talk about themselves.
And the other thing is, you know everything that you know.
You know barely anything that the other person knows.
Right.
And I mean, this is why our job is largely the most selfish one that we could
do.
Hey, smart person, come on here and tell me about your entire life's work.
Tell the least educated person in the room about what it is that you've spent
your time doing.
Yeah.
And it's also, it's very beneficial for the people that are listening, which is
another service that it provides.
Like you get to be you.
Like the person listening to your podcast gets to be you as you interview these
spectacular people.
So they get to like, oh, why did you do that?
And then you say, why did you do that?
And I'm like, yeah, good question.
Good question.
You know what it feels like?
It feels like watching a sports game sometimes.
I think the best conversations, whether they're around a table or a podcast or
whatever, it feels like watching a sports match.
And the two teams are kind of working together to get the ball in the goal.
And you get all excited and you're like, oh, he's going to do this.
Oh, the head kick.
Whoa, that's what I wanted.
Yeah.
And yeah, if you're ever listening to something, I'm sure that this maybe
happened to people listening to this episode.
They go, fuck, I hope he asks him about the thing.
Hey, ask him about the thing.
Yeah.
And yeah, there's this sense that there's a third participant, not just Jamie,
in the room.
Where's Carl?
I just realized there should be a fourth participant.
Carl snores a lot.
He's chilling.
Okay, he's a sound risk.
Sometimes he gets a little loud.
And while the podcast is going on, you hear, you're like, nudge him.
Roll him over.
Make him shut up.
Yeah, I am.
It depends on who I'm talking to.
Like, if I'm talking to, like, a theoretical physicist and there's, like, some
very difficult thing to grasp and you hear Carl snoring, it becomes a little
bit of an issue.
If it's coming through the headphones.
He's loud.
Sleep train.
Sleep train that dog.
No, you can't.
He's gotten older.
He can handle it.
And he's CPAP.
Doggy CPAP?
Fuck.
Have you seen what their faces look like?
The skulls?
French bulldog skulls?
No.
Oh, it's horrible what they've done to them.
Through selective breeding.
Yeah.
Just slowly, slowly.
They just shove their fucking skull.
It's all twisted where their sinuses are, like, non-existent.
Their whole face is just smushed in.
So we can't really complain about the snoring.
Well, I mean, we did it to them.
They used to be wolves.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They used to be a wolf.
Yeah.
I told you about that man crush that I had last time, that unkillable soldier
guy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it sort of sent me down a rabbit hole.
I fell in love with stories of crazy bastards from history.
So I found this other dude called Eimo Koivonen.
Oh, I've heard of that guy.
The Finnish soldier.
Yeah.
Yeah, so he is out on patrol with a bunch of Finnish soldiers, small group, and
they come upon a Soviet force way bigger than they are.
And the force is at the force is way bigger.
And the force is way bigger.
Eimo is at the front.
He's trailblazing, trying to break free from this group.
But he can't go fast enough.
If they get caught, they're going to be captured or killed or worse.
So he needs to speed up.
He doesn't know how.
He's carrying the entire patrol's supply of Pervitin.
Now, Pervitin was a German miracle drug that was used to keep soldiers awake
during the war.
Meth.
It's otherwise known, yep, as methamphetamine.
And he decided, I mean, you might think, this wasn't just any normal meth,
right?
This was pharmaceutical grade wartime human horsepower, right?
It was the most intense.
So you might think tolerating the dose could be a good idea.
There's a rumor that apparently it had melted in his pocket.
But whatever he did, he took 30 people's worth.
He took 30 soldiers' worth of meth.
The entire packet, just ate the entire packet.
Whoa.
Unsurprisingly, he manages to break away from the pursuing Soviets, and he
leads his group away.
So they chill out on the far side once they're finally free.
And they notice that Amo's behaving a little bit oddly.
And he seems to be a danger to himself and to them.
So they take his ammo out of his rifle, and they take his knife off him.
And they're sort of putting stuff away in the pack.
They turn around, and he's gone.
Like, fuck, where's Amo gone?
He skis for 63 miles on his own, just skis away, doesn't really know what he's
doing.
He's in this sort of fever dream thing, lays down, goes to sleep, wakes up the
next day, no idea where he is.
Doesn't know where his group is, doesn't know where the squadron is, doesn't
know where he is.
Immediately sees a Soviet soldier over the far side, raises his rifle, click,
fuck, they took my ammo.
Hurls the rifle at this Soviet soldier, and he explodes in a cloud of white
dust.
Turns out that it wasn't a Soviet soldier.
It was a tree branch with snow on it, and that he's actually hallucinating.
So he's in a full-on fever dream now.
Imagine this Soviet soldier throws the gun at him, he explodes.
He's like, fuck, okay, I need to find my squadron.
How am I going to get back to them?
So he decides to just try and navigate around for a couple of hours, and he
sees them over the far side.
He sees a fire, and he sees his group over the far side, but way far away.
So he skis for another two hours.
Turns out that it wasn't his squadron, it was more Soviet soldiers.
So he just skis straight through the middle of the camp.
All of these guys immediately chase after him, but there's no chance.
Like, he's the fucking LeBron James of meth, right?
You're not catching this guy.
So he goes straight through again, second night, finds a hut, finds a wooden
cabin in the middle of the snow.
Decides to set a fire, but he doesn't set it in the fireplace.
Sets it in the middle of the wooden hut.
And throughout the night, he sort of shuffles himself further and further away.
For some reason, his back's getting a little bit warm, and he keeps on sort of
shuffling himself further and further away.
He wakes up the next morning on the outside of the hut, and it's completely
burned down.
So he's burned the only bit, the only structure that was going to give him any
safety.
He's managed to burn it to the ground.
And as he wakes up, again, sort of may have noticed that this is a recurring
theme,
a wolverine attacks him, 65-pound wolverine.
Fucking fangs, yellow eyes, attacks him.
So Amo uses his knife, kills this wolverine, fight to the death, kills it.
But then he realizes, I don't have a knife because my soldiers took it from me.
It was his compass, which was the only thing he could use to navigate himself.
He'd smashed his compass to bits.
And then he looks down, and it wasn't a wolverine.
It was a tree log.
So he smashed his compass on a tree log, thinking it was a 65-pound wolverine.
He's still just deep, deep in the hole.
Continues to ski around.
He's trying to find someone, trying to find any way marker that he can.
Now, with no way to navigate, he's got no compass, he's got no weapon.
I mean, the rifle that's got no ammunition in it.
He finds a Soviet forward operating base.
But you'll know this.
A lot of the time, when armies left these behind, they booby-trapped the fuck
out of them.
They booby-trapped everything.
So he walks onto the middle of the forward operating base, immediately gets
exploded by a landmine.
Foot gets blown.
So he's laid there in the snow, kind of waiting to die.
And one day later, he's not dead.
So he's like, well, fuck it.
I might as well try and get into the forward operating base.
Gets up, continues to go forward, opens the door to the forward-
He has no foot?
It's damaged.
It's severely damaged.
Gets toward the front of the operating base, opens the door.
There's another booby trap there that explodes him and the door like 20 yards
backward.
He just lays there in the snow, waiting to die.
He lays there for about five or six days, waiting to die.
And he's melting snow in a little tin can thing, like melting it so that he can
drink a little bit of water.
He's got this door on him.
He thinks, well, someone's going to find me.
It's going to be the Soviets.
They're going to kill me, or I'm just going to die.
So he waits.
Death doesn't come.
Three Finnish soldiers come upon him.
Of all of the different nationalities, of all of the different people, three
Finnish soldiers come upon him.
And he thinks, finally, through all of this time, after being confused, after
getting lost, I'm going to be saved.
They say, it's okay.
We can take you back.
We can save you and take you back.
And the front guy of the three Finns steps on a landmine, blows himself up.
And the other two are like, hey, man, there's kind of a priority list here.
And you're at the bottom, and he's at the top.
So we're going to take him back.
But just hold on for another couple of days.
We'll come back, and we'll save you.
They go away.
And he just thinks, they're not going to find me again.
They're going to forget.
They're not going to be able to come back.
Someone's going to kill me before they do, or I'm going to die, or whatever.
But they do.
They manage to come back.
They manage to get him, and they take him back to the medical bay.
Fourteen days was how long he'd been traveling around.
He'd moved 250 miles in this time.
His resting heart rate was 200 beats per minute.
And he weighed 98 pounds.
He'd survived this entire time on meth,
water that he'd melted down into a tin cup,
a couple of pine nut things that he'd melted to,
and a single Siberian jay that he beat to death
with his ski pole and just ate raw.
And he lived until he was in his 70s,
died in, like, 1989, and just lived a great life.
Jeez.
I fucking love that story, dude.
This meth-fueled Finnish maniac,
just, like, skiing through everything,
setting shit on fire, hallucinating,
getting blown up twice.
Survived it.
Meth's a hell of a drug.
Maybe you should have done it.
Maybe I should try now.
It's amazing what was accomplished on amphetamines.
I mean, Norman Ohler's book, Blitzed.
I loved those episodes that you did with them.
Yeah, incredible.
It's just an incredible story,
that they literally went through Poland in three days,
just methed out of their fucking minds.
And the most meth was given to the people at the very front,
the people that were driving the tanks.
They were the most cranked up.
Because they'll drive the rest of the group forward.
Yeah.
And also, they have to be the most psychotic,
because you're going to be the first people to encounter resistance.
So you need to be the most risk-averse.
Yeah.
Oh, the least risk-averse.
The most maniacal and murderous.
I wonder, you know,
there's kind of a debate around how much of Hitler's behavior was because of
Hitler,
and how much was amplified, worsened by the drugs that he was on.
That Theodore Morrell,
that crazy, kooky doctor that he had,
is injecting him with bull semen.
He's getting fucking cocaine.
Everything.
Yeah.
A lot of it had to do with that.
It had to.
I mean, it had to.
It's a factor.
It's a giant factor.
Just how much of it.
What would have been like,
what would the wars have been like,
were there no meth?
I mean, that's probably the first amphetamine-fueled war.
Right?
Was World War I fueled by amphetamines?
Did they have amphetamines back then?
I mean, I don't know what you do to get people to go over the top to certain
death.
Like, how do you?
I mean, you motivate people by everybody else doing it.
I suppose it's sort of crowd behavior in that way.
Well, they know that meth was given to the kamikaze soldiers,
which makes sense.
I mean, it's a great way to just going to fly that plane right into that boat.
You're like, what?
I'm having a great time.
Sure.
Yeah.
No, I'm going to fly to a fucking island and hide.
During World War I, militaries used cocaine and other drugs
for medicinal purposes and to enhance performance.
So, cocaine.
The British Army sold cocaine-containing pills under the brand name
Forced March.
That is the best branding in the world.
Increased endurance, suppressed appetite.
1960 British Army Council banned the unauthorized sale of psychoactive drudge.
I wonder why they did that.
They didn't want to win?
You don't want to have fun?
What, are you the fucking fun police?
Wow.
That's pretty crazy.
Yeah.
Is it go pills?
Is that what they give to fighter pilots?
Yeah, they give me something.
British Army's pill number nine.
What's that?
Pill number nine was just a strong laxative.
This is AI.
Lies.
What was in there?
Specific medication used by British Army during World War I.
Primary ingredient, pill number nine, was colomel.
Mercurious chloride.
A mercury-based compound.
Used to treat intestinal infections and other ailments.
Oh, okay.
Just massive diarrhea pills.
I don't know how that's a performance enhancer.
Yeah, I don't think it is.
If your stomach, maybe just clear it out.
Feel light on your feet.
I don't know.
It seems like the cocaine would be more effective.
I mean, cocaine will make you go to the bathroom as well.
For accomplishing our goals.
Yeah.
You know, you said before about sort of that self-authoring thing,
like taking control of my own life.
My friend George has got this great question where he says,
you're stuck in a third world prison and you get one phone call to ring
somebody
to get you out.
Who do you ring?
And that idea I love because it helps you to identify
who the highest agency person is in your life.
Who is it that can think on their feet,
that doesn't need permission to go and do anything,
that will overcome obstacles,
that is this sort of, yeah, permissionless reality bender?
Right.
Who would you call?
I don't know, man.
That's a good question.
That's a really good question.
I'd have to really think about it.
Also, I don't know anybody's number.
That's true.
That's a problem.
Can I Instagram DM them?
Is that all right?
Can I log in?
Actually, can you give me my phone?
Because I've got two-factor authentication on.
This is going to be really awkward.
Is that all right?
I need to do that.
Yeah, I mean, I would be tempted to ring Tim Kennedy.
I think he would probably be quite high up on my list.
Yeah, he would help you a lot.
If I had access to my phone.
Yeah, dirty deeds done dirt cheap.
Correct.
Yeah.
I mean, it might be a bit gratuitous.
I get the sense that he would take more pleasure in getting me out
than would be necessary.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, probably.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know, man.
That's got to be the worst place to be in the world.
Foreign prison with no way to call somebody.
Poof.
You know, this is the criticism about these illegal aliens
that have been shipped off to, what is it, El Salvador?
Is it El Salvador that they have the super prisons?
Yeah, I think that's, we spoke about this last time.
That was just as they'd been created,
these football stadium-sized monstrosities.
They essentially got all the gang members off the streets
and locked them up and dropped crime radically,
dropped violence radically.
They essentially said, enough of this.
We're just going to go after all these gang members
and lock them all up.
And the criticism about these deportees
that we're sending people over there,
we're sending plane loads of people over there,
like, what if you're in that group
and you're not guilty of anything?
What if you're just a guy who came over here from Mexico
and you're a tattoo artist?
U.S. deports 250 alleged gang members to El Salvador
despite court ruling to halt flights.
Yeah, there's a court ruling to halt the flights.
But here's the thing.
If they are gang members,
if they are Trendyaragua or, you know,
those gang members that took over.
Yeah.
If that's real, then this all makes sense.
But the fear is that there's going to be certain people
that are rounded up in this that are not guilty.
Collateral damage.
Right.
And then these poor people are going to be trapped
in this El Salvador prison
and no one's going to believe them that they're innocent.
It says it all that El Salvador has got a reputation
for being so good at prison and law enforcement
that they're fucking importing people over there.
And it's like, oh, we need to...
You said before, if I've got a bad knee,
I want to go to the guy that looks after the Lakers.
It's like, you're the Lakers PT doc of the rehabilitation world.
It's not even rehabilitation, I suppose.
Just incarceration world.
Yeah, it's just incarceration
and there's probably a financial incentive.
We probably pay them to house these prisoners.
But the question is, are we sure?
Like, how many of these people are being accused
of being gang members
because maybe they tattoo gang members?
You know, maybe they were caught up in a raid
and maybe they are...
Friends of gang members.
Maybe there's an artist who happens to be an illegal
or maybe they're someone who's working on a construction site
and they get rounded up
and they get shipped over there.
That's a legitimate question.
When you're arresting people and prosecuting people
and your goal is to arrest people and prosecute people,
you do your best at that.
And the question is,
how many people get arrested and prosecuted that are innocent?
Well, in the real world,
what we know is quite a few.
I mean, I do a lot of podcasts
with my good friend Josh Dubin
who's spent a considerable amount of his life
helping innocent people get out of jail.
That's his main thing that he does
is work with unjustly prosecuted people.
And you find the levels of corruption to be horrific.
The prosecutors, DAs,
the amount of corrupt judges,
it's shocking.
It's shocking when you lay the facts of these cases out,
like the Ohio Four,
these people that were in jail,
proven that one of them
could not have possibly been there
when the crime was committed
and still was in there for 30 years.
The actual guy who was the informant
came out and said
that he was told to say all these things,
it's all lies,
then was told when they were going to bring it to trial again,
you will be arrested for telling lies now.
you will either be arrested,
you will either be arrested because you're lying now
or you'll be arrested for telling lies previously.
So then he won't...
This is like that thing,
you know,
if she thinks she's not a witch
and if she floats she is.
Right, right, right, right.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's crazy.
It's crazy.
And then there's the game aspect of it.
The game aspect of it is victory, right?
If you're a prosecutor,
your job is to arrest people
and prosecute them and convict them.
That's your job.
That's what your self-worth,
who you are as a prosecutor,
your reputation is based on success.
Yeah, your record.
Yeah.
Your perfect record of this many convictions.
Yeah.
It's the same with cops, unfortunately.
A lot of cops are...
Their whole thing is making arrests.
Making arrests.
It's a shame, isn't it?
You talked about the fire service earlier on.
Three emergency services,
fire, police, and ambulance.
Mm-hmm.
When the fire service turns up anywhere,
I don't think that there's any issues.
People...
I don't know whether...
How often firefighters find themselves
up against a crowd that's unhappy.
Maybe, I guess,
if it was a riot of some kind, perhaps.
But for the most part,
it's a hero that's coming to save the cat
stuck in a tree,
the house that's on fire,
the baby that's upstairs.
Yeah.
Like, hooray.
Well done for you.
Yeah.
A medical service turns up.
Somebody's really badly hurt
or somebody's broken.
EMTs, yeah.
Yeah, some kid at a sports match
has broken their leg.
Thank you so much, please.
Yeah.
Look after them, look after them.
And then the police turn up.
And the reaction could not be more different.
Yeah.
And I don't know.
I understand that there's a particular type of control
that cops have
that sort of firefighters and EMTs...
Firefighters and EMTs are doing stuff
exclusively sort of in service of others,
whereas cops are doing something
that sort of subtracts away.
But it must be tough.
Like, if you're a good cop,
especially now,
especially after the last few years,
it must be hard
because you want to feel proud about your job.
It's unbelievably hard.
It's also very hard to get people
that are good people
to sign up for it now
because they don't want that abuse.
I wonder if that's been reversed
over the last few years.
I don't know.
I mean, I bet it has
in certain jurisdictions
and certain areas
where they've valued cops.
And, you know,
this whole defund the police thing
was just so wild.
It was so crazy to see
that people would think
that that would be a good idea.
And even to espouse it publicly,
to erode public confidence
in law enforcement,
just writ large.
You notice that
that's largely dropped off now?
Yeah.
No one's really talking about defunding?
Well, it didn't work.
It had the opposite effect.
Crime escalated.
And the people that lived
in the communities
wanted the cops back.
In the areas
that were the worst affected as well.
It's a luxury belief.
Yeah.
It's something that's held
by the upper classes
that only impacts the lower classes.
Yeah.
And it's also a thing
that the political establishment
will use as a tool
to align you with them.
You know, people will say it like,
Kamala Harris in 2019
was saying,
I mean, defund the police.
We should defund the police,
which is just crazy to say.
You need to fund them more.
Train them better.
You know,
they need training
the way military groups
need training,
constantly, consistently.
And, you know,
they're encountering
horrific things.
I mean, my friends
who have been cops
and, you know,
and have served overseas,
they'll tell you,
most of them will tell you
that they suffered
more PTSD as cops
than they have.
Even in the military.
Yeah.
Depending upon your service,
depending on what you had to do.
But a lot of them,
it's just like every day
you're seeing
some nightmarish situation.
Horrific violence,
domestic violence,
child abuse,
murdered kids.
You're seeing so much horror.
And then your version of reality
is based on your experiences.
Your experiences
are horrific every day.
Do you think you'd be able
to switch off
if you had a job like that?
You'd be able to partition,
compartmentalize?
I wouldn't even ever guess
that I could pull it off.
I wouldn't even guess.
I don't think anybody
even understands
what that even means
unless you've shown up
and seen some guy's brains
blown out all over the curb
for nothing,
for some stupid argument
about nothing.
You know,
when you've seen
some woman get shot
in front of her kid
by the husband,
you have no idea.
No one has any idea.
You don't know
unless you experience it.
And then you have to go home
to your own children,
go home to your own wife,
and you're just,
your brain is on fire.
You know,
your soul is just in agony.
We were watching a video
the other day
of this guy
who had to shoot this guy,
this cop.
This guy was,
something was wrong.
He was clearly
mentally unstable,
was yelling,
was, you know,
telling everybody
what he was going to do.
They tased him.
That didn't work.
Then he's charging
at this cop
and the cop shoots him
and then the cop's sobbing
and shaking
and his partner's
telling him to breathe,
how to breathe,
and he's just
probably the first person
he ever had to kill.
It's horrible.
It's horrible.
And that's,
that's,
he succeeded.
He's,
he's stopped a threat.
And he,
you know,
it was justified.
This person
was trying to kill him.
What about
pulling people over
and the windows
are all tinted
and they won't roll down
the windows.
You're standing there
vulnerable.
It could be a shotgun
inches away from your face
and you have no idea.
And they've all seen
all these videos
where people get gunned down.
He pulled people over,
all of a sudden
the back window
explodes with machine gun fire.
I mean,
they live with that
every day.
They live with that
fear every day
and then they have to hear
this rhetoric everywhere
of defund the police
and calling cops pigs
and it's crazy.
It's crazy
and it,
it ultimately
destroys the fabric
of our society.
and,
you know,
there's plenty of evidence
that cops have done bad things.
It's not excusing
the bad cops.
There's bad plumbers.
There's bad car mechanics.
There's bad everything
and there's people
that shouldn't be cops
and when you see a video
of someone
who shouldn't be cop,
shouldn't be a cop
and is,
you know,
on their last nerve
and snaps at someone
or overreacts at someone
or brutalizes someone
totally unnecessarily,
it gives you
a very distorted perception
of the average encounter
that a person has
with police officers
because most of the interactions
that people have
with police officers
are fine.
Most of them.
The vast majority.
No one gets hurt.
No one goes to jail.
Most of them.
You know,
but you see the ones
that go sideways
and then you think
this is what cops are doing.
They're out there
trying to kill people.
Well,
that's one of the disadvantages,
I suppose,
of the way the algorithms work
that edge cases
that are unbelievable
and shocking
are the ones
that catch the most fire.
Right.
And what it creates
is it moves the fringe
to the middle
because most of what you see
by design
is the stuff
that's the most outlandish.
And then it gets used
as a political tool.
Correct.
You mentioned about
Biden and Kamala.
What do you think you do
if you're either of them now?
Like Trump's just running ragged,
flying high,
having all of this fun.
Like what are they doing?
Like what do you do
when you've lost,
two people have lost a campaign
in the space of six months?
I don't know.
Tim Walsh is out there
talking again.
You say he could fight
any Trump supporter?
Yeah, he said he'd kick their ass
and they're scared of him
because he could fix a truck.
Like they were threatened
by his masculinity.
I know how to fix a truck.
So he said I'm like,
do you?
I bet you don't.
The lady doth protest too much.
I bet you don't.
I bet if I bring a broken truck to you
and a bag of tools,
you're fucked.
That was kind of the redress, right?
That was the attempt.
It was like we're going to,
the symbol of masculinity on the left
is going to be Tim Walsh.
It was Aragon.
Aragon from Lord of the Rings
and Tim Walsh.
Yeah, it's so crazy.
I just don't,
I think they're lost.
I mean, they're also lost
in that they can't control
the narrative anymore.
I think when they had control
of Twitter
and they had control of all,
essentially all of social media
and pre-Trump,
they had the reins
like firmly held.
They were in control
of the public narrative.
If you strayed from that,
you will be kicked off social media.
You'll be banned from YouTube.
You were,
I mean,
and for things that were factually correct,
like the lab leak theory
is now finally being embraced
by the New York Times.
The New York Times,
I don't know if you saw that article
the other day.
They said we were misled.
Like, bro, you misled us.
We were misled.
Yeah.
By ourselves.
There was a big,
op-ed in the New York Times
that has people up in arms
because they're like,
fucking duh.
You're finally,
do you know where it is?
I could send it to you.
I saved it
because it's so ridiculous.
It's so ridiculous.
I was like,
what are you saying?
How are you saying that?
It was you guys.
It wasn't just some random people
that did that.
Do you find it anywhere,
do you find it anywhere, Jamie?
I know I saved it.
Which was it called?
It was the New York Times
saying that we were misled.
There was a big op-ed
in the New York Times.
I saw people spreading
and I never saw the link.
Yeah, I read it.
I read it for, like,
the first couple chapters,
but it's all duh.
The whole thing
is just fucking duh.
God, where did I save it?
I saved too many things.
I'm a hoarder.
Digital hoarder.
I'm a digital hoarder.
Do you know why that happens?
Do you know why people hoard stuff?
The interesting way
that their brains work.
No.
Looking around this table,
you're able to discern
between stuff that is useful
and stuff that isn't useful.
There it is.
We were badly misled
about the event
that changed our lives.
Who are you badly misled by?
Do you think you guys
had a factor in that?
Since scientists began
playing around
with dangerous pathogens
in laboratories,
the world has experienced
four or five pandemics,
depending on how you count.
One of them,
the 1977 Russian flu,
almost certainly sparked
by a research mishap.
Some Western scientists
quickly suspected
the odd virus
had resided in a lab freezer
for a couple of decades,
but they kept mostly quiet
for fear of ruffling feathers.
Yet in 2020,
when people started speculating
that a lab accident
might have been the spark
that started the COVID-19 pandemic,
they were treated
like kooks and cranks
in this newspaper.
many public health officials
and prominent,
by the way,
not by this person,
I'm not blaming this person.
Many public health officials
and prominent scientists
dismissed the idea
as a conspiracy theory.
I wonder why they did that.
I wonder if there's
an email paper trail
that's already been established.
There is.
Insisting that a virus
had emerged from animals
in a seafood market
in Wuhan, China,
and when a non-profit
called EcoHealth Alliance
lost a great grant
because it was planning
to conduct risky research
into bat viruses
with the Wuhan Institute
of Virology,
research that,
if conducted
with lax safety standards,
could have resulted
in a dangerous pathogen
leaking out into the world.
No fewer than 77 Nobel laureates
in 31 scientific societies
lined up to defend
the organization.
Yeah, they defend themselves.
I mean, it's appeal to authority
and they fucked us
and you guys were a part of it,
by the way.
That newspaper
was a big part of it.
Big part of calling
the lab leak theory racist,
which was really kooky.
It's strange that
everything is concretized
on the internet
for the rest of time.
Yeah.
I mean, people can go back
and try and, like,
retrograde, remove
stuff that happened,
but there's always
Internet Archive
is fantastic for this.
Yeah.
For the most part,
you can find it
if you're inspired.
So how is it
that so many U-turns,
regardless of what it is,
regardless of which side it is,
the sort of permanent state
of amnesia
that everybody's in,
there was this WhatsApp message.
You ever have one
of those WhatsApp messages
where it says
forwarded many times
at the top
and you're like,
oh, this is going to be good.
Right.
And it's just an advert.
It's just a banner
forwarded many times.
And it was a single squaddy,
a guy in fatigues
walking down the street
in London
and a screenshot,
I think,
of a text saying
that someone had said
that the army
was going to be deployed
on the streets of London
to keep everybody
in the house
through martial law,
that this was how intense
that the lockdowns
were going to get.
And it was going to happen
on this particular day.
It goes crazy on Facebook,
crazy on WhatsApp.
Never happened.
And like all of the people
that shared that,
that were adamant,
that created all of these stories
and theories around it,
like no one ever actually
went to go and call those people out
about what it was
that they'd pushed.
All of the people
that were adamant,
global health passports,
the vaccine passport,
that's going to come,
that's going to happen.
I mean,
the unfalsifiable version of it
is because we knew
that it was going to happen,
they weren't able to do it.
So actually,
we were the righteous resistance
in doing the thing.
And the same with
whether it's lab leak theory,
whether it's Joe Biden's
mental decline,
no matter what it is,
you can put this position out there.
It's fucking fortified
on the internet
for the rest of time.
And after a long enough,
you're like,
I don't remember that.
You know,
you're like fucking
the most gaslighty partner
that you've ever been with.
I'm not,
are you sure?
Yeah,
I don't think I did say that.
I did,
I do this like fucking
fugazi like switcheroo,
some lexical
Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
Yeah.
And I don't have to,
I don't have to atone
for my previous sins anymore.
Well,
I think in this case,
you have an individual journalist
who wrote this story.
I do not know the history
of this individual journalist,
but what they said
is accurate and important.
So it's good
that the New York Times
has this
come to Jesus moment
where they lay out,
hey,
the conspiracy theories
were all true.
That's what the title should be.
The conspiracy theories
were all true.
Yeah,
the shot wasn't effective.
Yeah,
there were therapeutics
that were available
that were dismissed
and that bad studies
were created
in order to make sure
that people weren't
taking these drugs
because we needed
the emergency use authorization.
And the only way
you can get that
is if you have no treatment.
So you had to rely
on one thing
and that one thing
was the vaccine
and they all participated in it.
How much do you think
New York Times
with articles like that,
Bezos coming out recently
and saying that
there's this sort of
balance thing
that he's got going on
at the Washington Post,
Zuckerberg's recent
sort of pivot
with regards to fact-checking
on meta platforms,
how many of those
do you think
would have happened
if there hadn't been
a Trump victory
in November?
How much of this
is blowing with the wind
do you think?
Most of it's blowing
with the wind.
It's the society,
society's decided
we're done.
You know,
this was Trump
getting elected,
this was Elon
buying Twitter,
this was,
you know,
and this is the blowback
that you're seeing,
these organized protests
and vandalism
on Tesla dealerships
and keying people.
They're encouraging people.
People are,
there's like,
there's so many videos
of people just smashing
Teslas,
carving swastikas
into the side of Teslas
because sentry mode,
these cars all have
sentry mode.
So you could leave
your Tesla parked
and it has HD video
of everything that's
happening all around it.
And it uploads it
so you can just see
who did what?
Yeah,
yeah,
you can watch it.
That's why all these
videos are out.
All these videos are out
is people extracting
them from their cars.
The video isn't published
by the rioters,
the video is published
by the victims.
Exactly.
Fuck.
Yeah,
and there's tons of people
that have been arrested
for this now.
Tons of people.
I don't know what,
I mean,
I guess it's a way
of trying to protest
against some person
that you don't like.
Yeah,
but it's funded.
That's what's crazy.
And it's all because
what Elon is doing
with USAID
and what he's doing
with Doge,
the Department of Government
Efficiency
is finding a lot
of inefficiency
waste and fraud.
Most of it,
he believes,
is waste.
Some of it is fraud.
And it's a lot of,
there's a lot of money
that's going in directions
it shouldn't be going.
And then there's stuff
that's legal
that probably shouldn't
be legal
like non-government
organizations
doing the bidding
of the government
because they're funded
by the government.
There's certain things
the government
is not allowed to do
but a non-government
organization,
an NGO,
can do.
What's an example
of that?
Well,
regime change.
Like,
a lot of what
this money
is going to,
it goes to
foreign countries
where we have
an interest
in having
the people
that are running
that country
on our side.
or we
don't like
them
and we want
to fund
the rebels.
And so
you can fund
the people,
you can fund
them through
all sorts
of organizations
where you hide
and mask
the money
and you move
it around
and you have
essentially
blank checks
and you can
just funnel
billions of
dollars all
over the world
with no accounting.
Mike Benz
is like the
most prophetic
person of all
time.
Oh my god.
I mean,
he talked
about it
on this podcast
before Doge
and before USAID
and everybody
was like,
oh,
conspiracy
theorists
and this
and that
and this guy,
so he used
to work
for the State
Department.
What the fuck
does he know?
Apparently,
he knows everything.
He knows all
of it
and he can spit
it out.
His recall
is incredible.
And,
you know,
that guy's
got to be
fucking terrified
because he's
out there
exposing.
He's essentially
the guy
who led Elon
to the coffin
where the vampire
sleeps.
Like,
this is where
it is.
It must be
an odd
situation to be
in because
most of the time
the level of
scrutiny that
you're under
and the level
of security
threat that's
likely is kind
of,
it goes in line
with status
or fame
and that also
goes in line
with maybe
some resources
too.
So,
as people get
more likely
to be a target,
they're also
more able
to perhaps
be able to
protect themselves
with living
in a nicer
house,
gated community.
Like Elon.
Yeah,
having security
and stuff
like that.
But this
is one of
those weird
situations
where your
knowledge,
your particular
insight,
makes you
so uniquely
vulnerable
or such a
heavy target,
but it hasn't
come with the
concordant increase
in status
and resources
that would
allow you to
be able to
actually protect
yourself.
And this is,
I guess,
the crisis
of a
whistleblower.
Yes.
Yes.
Whistleblower
and investigative
journalists.
Yeah.
I mean,
this is why
Julian Assange
spent so much
time in jail.
I was just
about to bring
up Ross Ulbricht.
Yes.
Have you,
you guys must
have tried
to reach out to him.
Yeah,
we reached out,
but he doesn't
really want to
talk to anybody
right now,
which is totally
understandable.
He's got an
open invitation.
If he ever
just says,
okay,
I'd like to
talk,
whenever.
Yeah,
I'd love to
sit down
and talk to him.
You know,
I'd love to
find the real
story because
the narrative
and the documentary,
the docudrama
that was made
about the Silk
Road and what
he did,
you know,
I'd like to
know how much
of that is
bullshit because
I think a lot
of it probably
was.
You know,
I think they
were trying
to set him
up for sure
and I think
there's probably
some things
that he was
accused of
that aren't
accurate.
You know,
I'd like to
know.
Isn't it
funny that
we always
think about
conspiracy theories,
all of this
stuff as always
being in the
past and
that when
something is
unfolding right
now,
I wonder how
much stuff is
being ignored
by the media
but will be
studied by
historians.
I wonder.
I wonder what
that would be.
That's one of
my friend's
favorite questions
to ask.
What is being
ignored by the
media but will
be studied by
historians?
I certainly
think that
smartphone use
will be one
of those.
You know,
there was that
five deathbed
regrets of
the dying.
I wish I'd
kept in touch
with my
friends.
I wish I
hadn't worked
so much.
I wish I'd
allowed myself
to be happy.
I wish I'd
lived the life
I wanted and
not the life
that other
people had
for me,
blah,
blah.
Yeah.
I would bet
everything that
I'm worth
that within
the next
couple of
decades I
wish I'd
spent less
time on
my phone.
Yeah.
Would be
one of
those.
No doubt.
One hundred
percent.
Well,
your time is
so valuable
and how do
you have
five extra
hours a
day?
Well,
look at
your screen
time.
It'll
save five
hours.
We were
talking about
this before
we got
started that
you have
the same
number of
hours that
somebody did
a hundred
years ago.
But the
average amount
of time
that Americans
spend on
screens is
eight hours
at the
moment.
The average
time that
they eat
on screen
to all
screens.
The average
time they
spend to
sleep is
6.5.
So people
are sleeping
for one
and a half
hours less
than they
spend their
time on
their
phone.
And what
are you
getting out
of it?
Nothing
tangible.
It's so hard.
It's so hard.
It's so
addicting.
It's designed
to be
addicting.
I mean,
you've
had Tristan
Harris on
here.
You know,
the way
the variable
schedule
reward
that
tempts
you,
that
keeps
you
there.
You
don't
know
what's
going
to
happen.
This
is
so
interesting.
I had
the guy
who wrote
Stuart Russell,
he wrote
the original
AI textbook.
It's
translated
into 70
languages
around the
world.
He taught
me this
really
interesting
thing
about
how
the
algorithms
work.
So we
know
the job
of the
algorithm
is
to
predict
what
you
want
to
click
on.
So
what
it
wants
to
do
is
get
better
at
working
out
what
Joe
likes
on
his
YouTube
feed
or
on
his
feed
or
whatever.
There's
actually
two
ways
that
it
can
become
more
accurate
at
being
able
to
predict
what
you're
going
to
click
on.
The
first
one
is
to
be
better
at
providing
you
with
things
that
you'll
select.
The
second
one
is
nudging
your
preferences
so
that
you
are
more
easy
to
predict.
because
if
you
just
give
something
the
optimizing
function
of
cause
Joe
to
click
on
a
thing
and
stick
about
what
like
click
through
and
watch
time
if
you
get
it
to
do
that
it'll
just
find
any
route
it's
not
bounded
by
and
you
must
make
sure
that
it's
his
existing
preferences
you can't
change
his
preferences
but
this
is
one
of
the
reasons
I
think
why
polarization
has
increased
not
just
that
edge
cases
get
used
it
pushes
people
further
apart
they
get
put
off
into
their
silos
echo
chambers
recursive
stuff
blah blah
blah
I
think
a
big
part
of
it
is
just
the
algorithms
find
it
easier
to
be
able
to
predict
you
which
gives
them
an
incentive
it's
not
like
a
conscious
incentive
but
it
gives
you
this
incentive
to
be
pushed
out
to
the
sides
and
there's
this
worry
like
an
uncurious
intellectual
insulation
so
people
believe
that
they
know
the
answer
to
the
question
before
the
question
has
even
been
asked
I
know
what
the
outcome
is
I
know
what
the
answer
is
before
you've
even
asked
me
the
question
and
what's
interesting
about
this
epidemic
of
knowingness
we
have
at
the
moment
is
if
the
problem
is
poor
information
you
can
fix
it
typically
with
better
information
I
will
knowingness
you
are
insulated
from
ever
updating
your
beliefs
because
no
amount
of
existing
new
information
is
going
to
actually
help
you
there's
this
really
cool
quote
that
said
most
people
think
that
they
are
thinking
when
all
they
are
doing
is
rearranging
their
prejudices
and I
think
that explains
why the
culture war
is so
boring
culture war
is
largely
super
boring
because
both
sides
act
as if
the
facts
are
already
settled
whilst
not
agreeing
on
the
facts
you
know
what
I
mean
yeah
so
how
is
it
that
we've
got
to
the
stage
where
people's
their
prejudices
just get
moved
around
until
they
can
come
up
with
the
outcome
that
they
already
wanted
before
you
even
ask
the
question
about
the
thing
that
you're
talking
about
that's
the
situation
we
end
up
with
and
I
think
it
explains
why
the
culture
was
feel
so
samey
news
is
operating
at
light
speed
and
the
way
that
we
move
forward
with
our
conceptual
understanding
of the
world
is
moving
forward
at
a
snail's
pace
how
are
these
two
things
happening
together
well
it's
technological
advance
right
technological
advance
is so
much
greater
and
faster
than
biological
advance
this
is
the
scariest
thing
that
leads
us
down
the
road
to
AI
is
that
as
we
are
so
limited
in
our
biological
ability
to
evolve
biological
evolution
takes
so
long
cultural
evolution
takes
so
long
whereas
technological
evolution
is almost
instantaneous
and
we are
being
overrun
by
this
thing
that's
captivated
our
attention
I was
talking about
this the
other day
I was
like
imagine
if there
was a
drug
that
made
you
stare
at
your
hand
for
six
hours
a
day
he'd
be
like
keep
me
the
fuck
away
from
that
drug
but
that's
what
your
phone
is
doing
mostly
you're
getting
nothing
occasionally
you get
a funny
meme
you know
if I
looked at
the amount
of time
that I
spend
online
on a
given
day
and how
much
of it
is
really
fascinating
to me
well every
now and
then you
get a
story
like
that
story
about
the
whole
universe
might be
inside
of a
black
hole
and then
I'm
on a
pyramid
so
there's
this
interesting
insight
about
that
there's
a few
things
you'll
get
but
I
kind
of
feel
like
you
will
get
those
if
you're
offline
just
by
other
people
being
online
they'll
send
it
to
you
you
don't
need
to
be
the
one
doing
the
first
pass
scouring
exactly
your
resources
are
better
utilized
by
not
doing
that
did
you
see
that
it
was
a
guy
who
removed
people's
phones
from
their
hands
the
photographer
who
went
around
I
think
it
was
New
York
City
and
he
took
photos
of
people
and
then
CGI'd
the
phones
out
you
know
you're
talking
about
imagine
if
there
was
this
thing
and
it
made
you
stare
at your
hand
he
actually
did it
so
it
shows
just
how
absurd
it
is
you know
you've
got
an
entire
train
carriage
on the
subway
on the
underground
and
everyone's
staring
at
it's
just
people
staring
down
at
their
hands
like
this
and
it
read
about
stuff
you're
kind
of
bored
a lot
of
the
time
you
need
to
be
sedated
yeah
oh
there
we
go
oh
wow
oh
those
people
just
sitting
there
staring
oh
that's
so
crazy
go back
Jamie
go back
up to
that
one
of
the
kid
wow
it
wasn't
that
long
this
was
2015
in
2012
I
started
trying
to
take
pictures
of
people
in
public
looking
at
their
phones
and
it
wasn't
that
common
then
so
wasn't
that
well
that's
like
when
social
media
kicked
off
in
the
beginning
no one
was
on
it
you'd
see
it
it's
like
most
people
weren't
even
on
they're
like
why
would
I
be
on
that
and
you
know
people
were
using
it
to
elevate
their
profile
and
then
people
became
influencers
and
once
people
became
influencers
and
once
people
like
a
regular
person
get
a
couple
living
in
LA
it
was
right
around
the
time
that
a
lot
of
these
what
was
it
back
then
what
was
the
thing
that
was
like
it
wasn't
tick
tock
vine
yes
yeah
yeah
it was
vine
vine
influencers
were the
first
and
they
were
famous
so
they'd
go to
restaurants
and be
like
that's
blah
blah
like
who's
that
like
oh
he's
got
35
million
vine
subscribers
like
what
it
was
bizarre
because
people
that
would
do
antics
or
cause
scenes
or
do
something
to get
attention
and
they
developed
large
followings
wasn't
isn't it
the number
one
job
that
primary
school
kids
want
is to
be
youtuber
an
influencer
yeah
well
they all
watch
them
they all
watch
people
eat
food
and
open
up
toys
and
it's
like
very
weird
it's
very
weird
stuff
because
no one
would
have
ever
predicted
that
that
would
be
something
would
captivate
people's
attention
on a
television
right
there was
no
unboxing
shows
on
television
but yet
unboxing
shows
on the
internet
are
huge
like
people get
sucked
into the
most mundane
thing
someone opening
up package
oh look at
this
here's the
new phone
mm-hmm
yeah
unboxing
in some
ways
I
actually
think
is
quite
satisfying
I
quite
like
watching
the
people
that
have
got
his
new
MacBook
M4
thing
and
it's
shot
all
nice
MKBHD
watching him
do his
stuff
is
really
great
but
he
also
does
a
comprehensive
analysis
of the
tech
it's
not
just
here's
me
playing
with
a
new
MacBook
no
he's
doing
a
review
of
state
of
the
art
where
is
technology
life
looking
at
okay
what
is
it
that
I
want
you
need
to
be
very
careful
about
what
the
process
is
in
order
to
get
the
outcome
that
you
want
because
if
you
want
the
outcome
but
you're
not
prepared
to
live
the
life
needed
to
get
it
you're
just
asking
for
disappointment
yeah
well
said
my
friend
talks
about
call
of
duty
versus
war
and
he
talks
you
think
about
this
is
what
going
on
holiday
to
a
place
is
and
this
is
what
having
to
live
there
is
like
you
can
go
to
somewhere
and
go
it
was
lovely
for
a
week
we
were
in
the
Congo
yeah
it
was
so
nice
but
you
go
what's
it
like
if
you
can't
leave
it's
literally
the
difference
between
going
camping
or
being
homeless
right
one
is
an
imposition
and
the
other
one
is
putting
a
selfie
or
getting
I don't
know what
they do
like
play-doh
fucking
jelly
new
video
games
that's
not
what
it's
like
look at
the
twitch
streamers
look at
most of
the
twitch
streamers
they have
got
they are
like
the
fucking
grunts
of
the
content
creation
they are
factories
of
content
eight
hours
a
day
five
days
a
week
just
straight
just
fucking
stream
of
consciousness
someone
put
something
in
the
chat
and
you
go
let's
watch
this
thing
let's
watch
that
thing
it's
like
it is
it's
not
if you
do
not
want
the
life
that
you
need
to
get
in
order
to
get
the
outcome
that
you're
looking
for
you
need
to
be
very
careful
about
because
the
reality
is
war
it's
not
call
of
duty
it's
the
same
thing
with
being
in
a
band
it's
like
I
love
the
idea
of
traveling
the
you've
managed
to
break
through
you're
going
to
have
to
spend
so
long
a
decade
learning
to
play
guitar
you're
going
to
have
to
write
songs
that
never
see
the
day
of
light
you're
going
to
have
to
do
all
of
this
stuff
and
you
have
no
idea
if
it's
going
to
work
there's
this
I
think
about
the
gap
from
where
people
are
in
a
place
that
they
don't
want
one
where
they
are
there's
a
point
where
they
they're
so
different
that
they
can't
resonate
with
their
old
set
of
friends
but
they're
not
yet
sufficiently
developed
that
they've
created
their
new
set
of
friends
and
there's
this
temptation
to
go
back
to
the
old
patterns
the
old
ways
of
thinking
and
this
I
did
this
live
show
in
London
last
year
my
first
big
headline
show
at
the
event
Tim
Apollo
in
London
it
was
pretty
cool
and
this
idea
I
think
was
one
that
really
resonated
with
a lot
of
people
because
everybody's
trying
to
grow
and
there
is
an
incentive
for
you
to
stay
in
the
same
place
because
not
that
many
people
grow
most
people
don't
change
they
make
little
changes
you know
they'll
cut
their hair
or
lose
five
pounds
or
you
know
they'll
switch
from
one
company
to
see
the
world
it's
pretty
rare
it's
not
that
common
and
we
are
such
mimetic
creatures
we're
so
shaped
by
the
people
around
us
that
we
can't
help
but
be
tempted
you know
you're
going to
have to
do
something
if
you
want
to
go
from
where
you
are
to
where
you
want
to
be
you
to
do
something
that
makes
you
more
different
more
weird
more
easy
to
be
mocked
especially
if
people
on
the
internet
for
it's
fucking
weird
that's
stupid
that's
not
going
to
work
why
are
you
going
to
do
that
so
if
you
don't
have
that
level
of
enthusiasm
there
is
no
support
around
you
to
tell
you
that
the
thing
you're
trying
to
do
why
are
you
training
this
taekwondo
bullshit
six
nights
a
week
why
are
you
coaching
all
of
these
moms
and
all
of
these
like
old
guys
and
how
to
tai
chi
or
whatever
why
are
you
doing
that
well
because
maybe
I'm
sort
of
pulled
to
it
and
there
is
this
temptation
to
go back
to
your
old
ways
of
thinking
go
back
to
the
road
that
you
already
know
how
it's
going
to
end
and
I
get
the
sense
that
this
is
not
a
bug
it
is
a
feature
it's
a
part
of
moving
from
live
through
this
lonely
chapter
and
you
look
at
it
and
you
go
well
the
Rocky
montage
was
3.5
minutes
for me
it's
been
five
years
where's
the championship
ring
you know
what I mean
I haven't won
the fight
where's
Apollo
Creed
none
of this
stuff
happened
the
thing
that
I
wish
more
stories
talked
about
if you
watch it
in the
movies
yeah
sure
there's
ups and
downs
in the
journey
of
the
athlete
that's
going
to
change
it's
one
straight
shot
typically
and
there'll
be
some
challenges
but
he'll
get
there
his
self
belief
never
wavers
I don't
think
that
that's
what
the
experience
of doing
personal
growth
is like
at all
in my
experience
it's
you're
just
swimming
in
uncertainty
and
and fear
and
a lack
of belief
that it's
even going
to happen
you don't
even have
the promise
of glory
on the
other side
of it
I don't
even know
if this
is going
to be
worth
it
why am I
eating
meat
and
fruit
does
this
even
work
like
you're
doing
all of
this
stuff
trying
scrabbling
like a
guy
in a
fucking
well
trying
to
find
a
hand
hold
and
if
you
don't
have
a
good
community
of
people
that
are
also
doing
that
you're
on
your
own
yeah
yeah
and
this
is
most
people
I
think
most
people's
experience
because
if
most
people
don't
change
you
are
going
to
be
an
outlier
if
you're
somebody
who
does
change
I
think
about
personal
growth
kind
of
like
a
rocket
ship
taking
off
and
as
you
take
off
you've
got a
particular
velocity
that
you're
moving
at
and
what
you
want
is
to
find
other
people
moving
at
the
same
velocity
as
you
but
the
quicker
that
you
move
the
fewer
people
are
going
to
be
like
you
right
so
some
people
be
ahead
of
you
and
you're
in
this
lonely
chapter
and
then
you
catch
up
to
them
and
then
oh
no
and
this
isn't
you know
some
comment
on
people
that
work
on
themselves
like
morally
better
or
worse
than
anybody
else
but
it's
just
a
stark
sort
of
fact
about
you
talk
to
people
and
you
resonate
with
people
that
are
at
the
same
level
of
life
as
you
are
and
that
kind
birds
of
a
feather
right
and
you
know
one
of
the
I
guess
difficult
realizations
of
people
who
want
to
change
their
life
is
that
if
you
do
it
well
you
might
have
to
go
through
a
period
where
you
let
go
of
all
of
your
friends
but
the
really
bad
realization
is
if
you
do
it
really
well
you
might
have
to
do
that
multiple
times
throughout
your
life
you
find
a
group
of
people
finally
I've
landed
after
oh
that
period
where I
was
on my
own
and I
didn't
really
understand
oh
fuck
I'm
still
going
I've
over
and
I
now
need
you
mean
I
got
to
do
it
again
I've
got
to
do
it
again
I
just
thought
that
I'd
found
my
group
and
I've
got
to
do
it
again
this
lonely
chapter
thing
is
back
to
what
I
know
and
it's
why
you
know
America
for all
that
it's
a
horrible
cis
hetero
patriarchal
superstructure
that's
misogynistically
keeping
everybody
down
it's
an
enthusiastic
and
sort
of
excitable
country
and
you
guys
have
kind
of
got
permanent
first line
cocaine
energy
about
everything
and
for
me
it
seems
to be
a
real
enthusing
environment
encourages
me
to
do
things
helps
me
to
take
risks
either
that
or
get
kicked
in
the
head
a lot
and
I
just
love
it
I
love
the
fact
that
it
makes
me
feel
confident
in
doing
difficult
things
and
yeah
I
wish
that
more
people
had
that
community
around
them
I
think
largely
is
just
a
website
filled
with
people
who
couldn't
find
other
people
to
talk
about
their
niche
in
their
hometown
like
this
particular
Warhammer
40k
version
or
whatever
but
yeah
it's
difficult
and when
you get
to the
stage
where
you're
faced
with
some
personal
growth
decision
you're
always
going to
have to
make
this
value
exchange
of
do
I
want
to
move
forward
on
my
own
or
do
I
want
to
go
back
with
my
friends
it's
a
good
point
man
Chris
always
great
to
talk
to
you
brother
really
appreciate
your
insight
you're
a
very
brilliant
guy
and
you're
always
you're
fun
fun
to
talk
to
I
appreciate
you
too
man
thanks
for
having
the
courage
to
put
all
your
thoughts
out
there
and
I
love
what
you
do
I
love
your
show
and
you're
awesome
man
you're
awesome
too
every
time
that
you
bring
me
on
every
time
that
we
get
to
speak
I
really
appreciate
it
so
thank you
my
pleasure
bye everybody