#2293 - Chris Williamson

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Chris Williamson

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Chris Williamson is the host of the "Modern Wisdom" podcast. https://chriswillx.com/modernwisdom

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Timestamps

0:44Antarctica trip, flat-earth test, and pyramid conspiracies
9:54Continuation: Graham Hancock, pyramid theories, and ideological extremism in academia
19:54Continuation: performative morality, online criticism, and anti-Elon/Tesla outrage

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Transcript

0:00

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

0:03

The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:05

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

0:09

I took the glasses off. I was hoping you were going to keep them on.

0:15

You want me to keep them on?

0:16

You can pull them off.

0:17

Some dudes can't pull off douchey glasses.

0:19

You think these are douchey?

0:20

A little bit if I didn't know you, but I'll know you.

0:22

I'm not douchey at all, so you can wear cool glasses.

0:25

Well, these are requests by you, so I can wear what I want.

0:27

You've been wearing them a lot. I like them.

0:29

Yeah, yeah, I do.

0:30

It's like having an Instagram filter for the entire world.

0:33

Right.

0:34

Everything feels just a little rosy.

0:35

I had a pair of rose-colored glasses before, and I got it.

0:38

I was like, oh, I get it. It is better this way.

0:40

It is nicer. Yeah, yeah, it's like a full line.

0:42

Dude, I need to show you this.

0:44

Okay, what is this?

0:45

I have a little open of that.

0:46

So you'll remember that I sent you a photo on iMessage a couple of months ago

0:51

of a friend of mine who was in Antarctica.

0:55

Yeah.

0:56

And he flew a comedy mothership lighter out to Antarctica.

1:00

I've been reliably told that that lighter was used to smoke weed in Antarctica.

1:05

Yeah, and it's touched—it was dropped a number of times, so it's touched

1:09

ancient permafrost.

1:10

Fuck yeah.

1:11

What kind of laws do they have in Antarctica?

1:13

I don't know. Apparently very liberal.

1:15

Do they have any laws?

1:15

Fuck knows. I don't know.

1:17

There's nobody there. Have they established laws?

1:19

They were 400 miles in.

1:21

Whoa.

1:21

So this was part of the final experiment, which was this attempt to try and disprove

1:26

flat earth.

1:27

Oh.

1:30

He went as a part of that.

1:31

Did he bring flat earthers? Is that the deal?

1:34

So four flat earthers, four globeeers, get flown to Antarctica. It's $35,000

1:41

per person.

1:42

Oh, my God.

1:43

This guy called Will Duffy put the project together, flew everybody down there.

1:47

Did he pay for each person?

1:49

Yep.

1:50

Wow.

1:50

I think maybe a couple of people chose to go self-funded, but they were trying

1:54

to get the open offer to all of the biggest flat earth influencers, commentators,

2:00

I don't know what to call them.

2:02

How many went?

2:03

Four of each. So four roundies, four flatties.

2:05

Don't you want to see their search histories?

2:10

Maybe the FBI do. I don't know.

2:13

The flat people, I want to see.

2:15

So they do this in the middle of our winter, their summer.

2:20

They observe the sun above the horizon for 24 hours.

2:23

So there's no explanation, apparently, with most of the models of flat earth

2:27

about how the sun could stay above the horizon for 24 hours.

2:30

So they flew down.

2:31

They had drones flying in the air.

2:33

They had a 24-hour 360 cameras.

2:37

They had live stream of iPhones, all of this stuff.

2:40

And then they had the people that were on the ground.

2:41

And the guys that were there observed the sun.

2:44

Did the flat earthers switch stances?

2:46

So three did and one didn't?

2:50

This is just their drone footage.

2:51

I was just showing you footage.

2:52

Oh, this is drone footage?

2:53

Yeah.

2:54

So the final experiment.

2:55

So those are apparently mountaintops.

2:58

But they're submerged?

3:00

It's just all ice.

3:02

That is so fucking hardcore.

3:03

It's so fucking hardcore.

3:04

Because, you know, there's a bunch of things up there that look like pyramids.

3:08

And what it really is, is just an unusual peak of an enormous mountain.

3:12

Have you seen the Antarctic pyramids?

3:15

Yeah, you got to go all in on that.

3:17

Okay.

3:17

We have hard-launched this episode.

3:22

People that believe wild shit about Antarctica.

3:25

So you know about the direct energy weapon theory, right?

3:28

Yes, I did see that on Sean Ryan's show.

3:30

Yes, I did as well.

3:31

I was like, okay.

3:32

That guy's fucking really interesting.

3:34

Yeah.

3:34

It's like, he sounds really interesting.

3:38

But if I want to sit him next to Eric Weinstein, you know what I'm saying?

3:42

Like, is anything that this guy's saying make any sense?

3:45

Because I've done that before with Eric, with one guy who was a fraudster.

3:49

I sent him a video and I said, tell me if this is gobbledygook or if this is

3:53

real physics.

3:54

You used Eric to stress test some guy's ideas.

3:56

Of course.

3:57

He loves it.

3:57

He loves any sort of intellectual stimulation, especially if it's like

4:02

mathematics or physics

4:03

or something where it's his wheelhouse.

4:05

And, you know, he's great.

4:07

Because someone can sound really good to me, you know?

4:11

They can start quoting thermal dynamics.

4:14

Finesseing you through whatever their problem is.

4:16

Like chiropractors do.

4:18

You know, chiropractors use all these crazy, weird terms for musculature and

4:23

different insertion

4:24

points.

4:25

It's to let you know that they have a comprehensive understanding of the body

4:29

that's far beyond

4:30

yours, Chris.

4:31

And this is the same thing like a lot of fraudsters do.

4:34

They'll use enormous language and very verbose, you know, phrases.

4:40

And it's like they're just trying to get you to think that they're smarter than

4:46

they are.

4:47

Yeah.

4:47

I think people use sort of complex language and fluency as a proxy for truthfulness

4:51

and

4:52

insight.

4:52

Yes.

4:53

And especially when if you're dealing with a truly brilliant person, that's

4:57

what the pyramids.

4:57

Holy fuck.

4:58

Yeah.

4:58

Oh, this is just on Google Maps.

5:00

Yeah.

5:00

Jamie, you've just gone to Google Maps to find this.

5:01

Yeah, I didn't want to go to any.

5:02

I went to the source.

5:03

Any kooky websites.

5:04

But it does look like a pyramid.

5:07

Well, it also looks like all three.

5:08

Yeah.

5:09

Yeah.

5:10

That's crazy.

5:10

But the reality is that's probably under a couple of miles of ice.

5:14

Yeah.

5:17

So this final experiment thing sent the world into a spiral.

5:19

There's this dude, Jaron Campanella, who was one of the biggest influences.

5:23

And he's said, I saw the sun above the horizon.

5:27

I think the Earth's round.

5:29

He's immediately been, the Flat Earth Society's just gone into a head spin.

5:33

They're saying they didn't really go to Antarctica.

5:35

They went to the sphere in Vegas, was one of the accusations.

5:38

They did it at the sphere in Vegas.

5:40

And they were tracking it around.

5:41

The sphere's not that big, kids.

5:44

Yeah, well.

5:45

It's not that big.

5:46

I don't know.

5:46

I've been there.

5:46

There's seats everywhere.

5:48

You would know you're there.

5:49

I don't know.

5:50

I don't know.

5:51

They had a bad time.

5:52

But yeah, that's been pretty wild.

5:55

Talking of pyramids, dude, this new pyramid shit that's just come out?

5:59

Oh, this is insane.

6:01

Yeah, I was going to send this to you as well, Jamie.

6:03

I'll send you one of the most comprehensive breakdowns of it on X because it's

6:07

quite stunning.

6:08

So apparently, through the use of LiDAR, they have discovered that there are

6:13

enormous structures

6:14

underneath the Great Pyramid that go kilometers deep into the Earth with coils.

6:21

So enormous pillars and then these coils.

6:25

They don't understand what it is because they're just looking at LiDAR images.

6:31

But whatever this is, is a uniform structure.

6:34

There's several pillars.

6:36

And all of this is like very, very, very weird.

6:41

Yeah, 600 meters descending down those cylinders.

6:44

And then there's more stuff below it.

6:46

And then there's additional structures inside of it.

6:48

Yeah, that was crazy.

6:50

It's really crazy.

6:51

There's a guy, Jay Anderson, and he did a breakdown of it.

6:55

Maybe this would be good.

6:56

We could play this.

6:58

It makes a little more sense when someone's explaining it to you.

7:03

Well, yeah.

7:03

I mean, we need somebody that's an expert here, not me and you.

7:06

Zowie Hawass, by the way, has said it's nonsense.

7:08

Already?

7:10

Yes.

7:10

According to Graham Hancock.

7:11

This is the wonderful thing about having Graham Hancock.

7:13

I texted Graham yesterday.

7:14

I was like, yeah, what's going on with this?

7:16

Yeah.

7:17

So click on that and go full screen, please.

7:20

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8:48

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8:52

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8:55

I love the music.

8:56

And geometry, so you know it's real.

8:59

You've got to appreciate the dramatic intro.

9:00

Project Unity.

9:04

What has just been announced in relation to the pyramids at the Giza Plateau

9:09

and the plateau

9:10

itself is so incredible, so awe-inspiring, and narrative-shattering that I have

9:17

been sitting

9:17

here for the last hour trying to wrap my head around the implications of what

9:22

we were just

9:22

told.

9:23

So this is pretty much breaking news because the new findings were announced on

9:27

the 16th

9:28

of March at a press conference held by the team who were studying the Great Pyramid

9:31

of

9:31

Giza with a non-invasive technology that was first developed by Filippo Bionde

9:37

and Corrado

9:38

Malanga called Synthetic Aperture Radar Doppler Tomography.

9:42

Fuck, that's a mouthful.

9:44

This was used to explore the internal structure of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

9:48

And this method leverages the analysis of micro-movements typically generated

9:53

by background

9:54

seismic activity to achieve a high-resolution, full 3D tomographic imagery of

10:01

the pyramid's

10:02

interior and subsurface components.

10:04

The recent findings from deploying this technology are nothing short of mind-blowing

10:10

because what's

10:11

been discovered is that there are huge structures coming down from the base of

10:16

the pyramid deep

10:17

into the bedrock, in fact, over 600 meters deep, which then connects to

10:24

structures that extend

10:25

up to two kilometers below the surface of the ground.

10:29

Two kilometers, massive internal structures connected to the base of the

10:34

pyramid and extending

10:35

deep, deep down.

10:37

This is what we know so far.

10:39

What does your friend think about it?

10:41

Which friend?

10:42

The one that said it's bullshit.

10:45

Oh, that's not my friend.

10:46

That's Zawi Hawass.

10:47

Okay.

10:47

Zawi Hawass is the head of antiquities in Egypt.

10:51

He's like the head guy that talks to the archaeologists and gives the official

10:56

narrative.

10:57

In the past, he's been extremely hostile to Graham Hancock, but Graham Hancock

11:02

and him

11:03

have now become friends.

11:04

Oh, yes.

11:04

I do know this guy.

11:05

And they're coordinating.

11:06

Graham is a lovely guy.

11:07

People that are enemies with him just need to get to know him and hang out with

11:13

him.

11:13

He's a genuine, real human being who's trying to find the truth.

11:18

He doesn't have fake narratives.

11:21

And he's so sensitive, too.

11:23

Like, he's so upset.

11:23

Like, when people smeared him, like the Atlantis thing, they were trying to say

11:27

it's a white

11:27

supremacist idea to look for Atlantis.

11:30

It's like, what are you talking about?

11:32

Like, what are you talking about?

11:33

Like, we had this guy, Flint Dibble, on who, in an article, and he was talking

11:38

about

11:39

Graham.

11:39

And he's connecting Graham to white supremacy and all this crazy shit because

11:44

of the Atlantis

11:46

theory.

11:46

That's the way they dismiss Atlantis.

11:48

Is it pedestalizes white heritage?

11:49

Because some people in the past, some people in the past who have theorized

11:54

about Atlantis

11:55

had white supremacist ideas.

11:58

But also, most people didn't.

12:00

Like, Plato didn't.

12:02

Like, the people that talked about this place, it's in sub-Saharan Africa.

12:07

I mean, it's like the least white supremacist discovery of all time, as are the

12:12

pyramids.

12:12

This is Africa.

12:14

It's the least white supremacist notion of all time that this incredibly

12:19

advanced ancient

12:20

civilization had reached some sort of proficiency that's above and beyond what

12:24

we attribute to

12:25

them.

12:25

I think Graham is right.

12:27

And I think there's a lot of other people that are right, too, that are chasing

12:31

this down.

12:32

And Christopher Dunn had long ago theorized and wrote a book that he believes

12:38

that the

12:39

Great Pyramid of Giza is a gigantic power plant.

12:42

He thinks it generates power.

12:44

And he has a very, like, a working theory of why it's built the way it's built

12:52

that totally

12:53

coincides with the ability to produce hydrogen, the ability to utilize the rays

13:00

of space and

13:01

try to find some way to generate electricity through this.

13:05

Yeah, it's the association of other people that we don't like talked about this

13:11

thing.

13:12

Therefore, anybody else that talks about this thing is immediately attached to

13:15

them.

13:15

Just seems like a very lazy way to sort of smear people.

13:17

It's lazy thinking.

13:21

It's gross.

13:22

It's beyond lazy.

13:24

It's not lazy.

13:25

It's really cheap.

13:26

It's like they're cheap insults.

13:27

And it's also from academia, which is so disappointing.

13:31

You know, I mean, academia has been so captured by this mind virus of leftism

13:37

that it's just it's

13:39

so bizarre to watch the brightest minds and the people that we lean on for

13:44

rational, reasonable

13:45

thinking and an objective understanding of the world.

13:50

We lean on the experts.

13:52

And when they're calling someone a white supremacist for talking about an

13:55

advanced society that

13:57

lived in Africa, there's a lot of ways that you can put your foot in it.

14:00

There's this woman, Corey Clark, who sent a survey to every psychology

14:06

professor in the

14:07

U.S. and asked them questions like, what is more important, the truth or

14:13

ensuring that

14:14

equity is promoted?

14:17

And a lot of professors basically said, I self-censor.

14:22

I would prioritize making people feel good over necessarily telling them the

14:25

truth.

14:26

There are certain opinions that people should be reported for.

14:29

There are certain topics that basically shouldn't be discussed.

14:32

The usual suspects stuff like behavioral genetics.

14:35

So heritability, evolutionary psychology, as in anything that kind of relates

14:39

to sex differences.

14:40

And yeah, it really is retarding the progress of everything.

14:47

And you think, well, trickling down from this, what sort of educated society

14:52

are you going

14:53

to have in future?

14:53

That's not going to be particularly good.

14:55

Well, I think it's going to encourage independent education.

14:58

I think you're going to encourage people like University of Austin, which is

15:03

they're aiming

15:04

to do just that and to kind of bypass all this nonsense and just teach people

15:08

reality.

15:10

And I also think that it's most likely, I mean, I don't even want to say most

15:16

likely.

15:17

It's most certainly influenced by other countries that want to degrade our

15:22

ability to develop

15:24

meaningful minds that come out of universities, like intelligent, useful people.

15:30

Distract them with social justice.

15:32

Not just distract them, but destroy society with them.

15:35

It's Yuri Besmanov's prediction from 1984.

15:37

It's like you could pass that off as a ridiculous conspiracy theory if it wasn't

15:42

totally accurate.

15:45

It's like, it's amazing how people don't want to believe that maybe there's

15:50

been subversion

15:51

and that maybe our universities have been overrun for years with both funding,

15:57

which we know

15:58

is true, particularly from China.

16:00

China funds a lot of American universities.

16:02

They give a lot of grants.

16:04

They spend a lot of money.

16:05

And this was a part of the whole thing with Joe Biden's bizarre job that he had,

16:14

where he

16:15

was a professor that he never showed up for classes and he was teaching and he

16:19

got a large

16:20

salary.

16:21

Like a mob teaching job.

16:21

He got a mob no-show job teaching.

16:24

But as a professor.

16:25

Yeah, as a professor.

16:26

And I think he got a million dollars a year to just do nothing.

16:28

You know that question that people ask about-

16:31

Find out how much you got.

16:32

I don't want to get sued by a dead man.

16:34

He doesn't know what's going on.

16:37

He doesn't know what's going on.

16:38

Well, he might auto-sign the legal papers.

16:41

There's that question about, there's two options about life in the universe,

16:46

that either we're

16:47

alone or that we're not, and both are equally terrifying.

16:49

Right.

16:49

I feel like it's the same when it comes to Western anti-Westernism.

16:55

And you say, either we're doing it to ourselves or we're not.

17:00

And both are equally terrifying.

17:01

Yeah.

17:02

Yeah.

17:02

You know, you're being puppeted by this nefarious foreign power, or you're just

17:07

turning around

17:07

and kicking the ball into your own goal over and over again.

17:10

Well, I think people will turn around and kick the ball into their own goal.

17:15

But I also think they're being helped.

17:16

I think there's a substantial amount of this that just works automatically.

17:21

It preys upon really weak minds and particularly bullies and mean people who

17:29

want to find other

17:31

people that they can hate to justify like whatever virtue they believe that

17:35

they have above those

17:36

people and they'll use it to hate.

17:39

And John Cleese made a great video about this, why extremism is so interesting.

17:45

It's on my Instagram.

17:46

I reposted it the other day.

17:49

Someone posted it.

17:50

We'll give them credit for it.

17:51

But it's a great clip from John Cleese from 30 years ago.

17:54

From 30 years ago.

17:56

Prophetic.

17:57

And in pre-social media.

17:59

There's no social media at this time.

18:01

And he essentially nails what's going on with both the right-wing extremists

18:07

and the left-wing extremists.

18:08

It's the same thing.

18:10

They're the same people.

18:11

They're finding a thing.

18:12

Click this.

18:13

We've heard a lot about extremism recently.

18:15

A nastier, harsher atmosphere everywhere.

18:18

More abuse and bother boy behavior.

18:20

Less friendliness and tolerance and respect for opponents.

18:23

All right, but what we never hear about extremism is its advantages.

18:29

Well, the biggest advantage of extremism is that it makes you feel good.

18:33

Because it provides you with enemies.

18:36

Let me explain.

18:37

The great thing about having enemies is that you can pretend that all the badness

18:42

in the whole world is in your enemies.

18:44

And all the goodness in the whole world is in you.

18:47

Attractive, isn't it?

18:49

So, if you have a lot of anger and resentment in you anyway.

18:52

And you therefore enjoy abusing people.

18:54

Then you can pretend that you're only doing it.

18:57

Because these enemies of yours are such very bad persons.

19:00

And that if it wasn't for them, you'd actually be good-natured and courteous

19:04

and rational all the time.

19:07

So, if you want to feel good, become an extremist.

19:10

Okay.

19:11

Now you have a choice.

19:13

If you join the hard left, they'll give you their list of authorized enemies.

19:17

Almost all kinds of authority, especially the police, the city, Americans,

19:23

judges, multinational corporations, public schools, furriers, newspaper owners,

19:30

fox hunters, generals, class traitors, and, of course, moderates.

19:35

Or, if you'd rather be an extremist on the hard right...

19:38

I bet the moderates are in there again.

19:40

...you still get a loveliness of enemies, only they're different ones.

19:42

Noisy minority groups, unions, Russia, weirdos, demonstrators, welfare sponges,

19:50

meddlesome clergy, peace nicks, the BBC,

19:54

strikers, social workers, communists, and, of course, moderates.

19:59

And upstart actors.

20:01

Now, once you're armed with one of these super lists of enemies, you can be as

20:06

nasty as you like, and yet feel your behaviors morally justified.

20:10

So, you can strut around abusing people and telling them you could eat them for

20:14

breakfast,

20:15

and still think of yourself as a champion of the truth, a fighter for the

20:19

greater good,

20:20

and not the rather sad, paranoid schizoid that you really are.

20:24

Seriously.

20:24

Brilliant.

20:24

Brilliant.

20:25

That's so good.

20:26

Brilliant.

20:26

Yeah, I remember...

20:28

Pre-social media.

20:29

But the dynamic is still the same.

20:31

Right, it's just amplified now so much so that it's a part of everyone's life.

20:34

So many people's morality stands on the shoulders of somebody that's fallen

20:38

behind, right?

20:39

It's, look at how bad that person is.

20:43

You don't need to look at me.

20:44

And I think that if people start pointing at outgroups, and they bind their

20:49

group together over the mutual hatred of an outgroup,

20:52

that's usually an indication, I'm like, I should look a little bit closer at

20:55

you.

20:56

Like, what might be a good example?

20:58

Lizzo.

21:00

Didn't think I was going to go there.

21:03

Lizzo.

21:05

Talking about how she was in support of these bigger girls.

21:09

Yes.

21:09

And she was going to help their careers and give them a platform, presumably a

21:12

structurally reinforced platform.

21:14

Meanwhile, behind the scenes, she's body shaming them.

21:21

She's starving them.

21:22

She's not letting them have water, apart from when she makes them eat bananas

21:25

out of the vaginas of Amsterdam strippers.

21:27

Douglas Murray said that she thought that she could outsource eating fruit to

21:31

somebody else.

21:40

And meanwhile, you think she's portraying nicey-nicey out front what's

21:44

happening behind the scenes.

21:45

Right.

21:46

I remember this.

21:46

This was pre...

21:48

One cigar?

21:48

Yeah, please.

21:49

This was pre...

21:51

Thank you.

21:56

Pre-Trump Elon.

21:57

Really pre-Trump Elon.

21:59

And he was saying...

22:00

Thank you very much.

22:01

And he was saying, what I care about is doing good, not the appearance of it.

22:06

Yes.

22:07

And he's discussing performative empathy in this way.

22:10

This sort of sense that what's most important is to protect people's feelings.

22:15

And I think that this really is a point...

22:17

It doesn't matter whether you're on left or right.

22:18

This is a point that you should care about because you want people to have some

22:22

sense of transparency, legitimacy.

22:24

They want to be telling the truth.

22:25

You want to trust that what someone is saying to you is actually what they

22:28

believe.

22:29

Yes.

22:29

And he said, what I care about is doing good, not the appearance of it.

22:34

There are lots of people who are doing evil while proclaiming that they're

22:37

doing good.

22:38

And, you know, that's the same that you're talking about there with John Cleese.

22:41

You're saying, these people's morality will stand on the shoulders of others

22:45

who have fallen behind.

22:47

It's the same reason why if somebody's in the middle of a scandal, look at who

22:50

comes out and twists the knife a lot.

22:53

And you go, huh, I wonder what's in your...

22:56

It's the classic congressman that's got the anti-gay bill.

22:59

Oh, yeah.

23:00

Who's just...

23:01

Gay as fuck.

23:01

Yeah, yeah.

23:02

Glory holes and, you know, check his hard drive.

23:06

That's the person who's hard drive.

23:07

Check his hard drive.

23:08

Yeah.

23:09

So, yeah, it's just such an obvious warning sign to me that what's happening

23:15

inside of someone is probably not that good.

23:19

And, yeah, I mean, if you're looking to destroy someone particularly, like you're

23:24

attacking someone online particularly, almost all of those people are deeply

23:29

broken.

23:29

There's always some creepiness that lurks behind the scenes that you're trying

23:34

to cover up for with your actions.

23:37

Almost always.

23:38

You're trying to put the light on this person.

23:40

You're going to put the eye of Sauron on this person to keep it off yourself.

23:44

I've seen that a lot of, you know, self-proclaimed male feminists.

23:49

Sneaky fuckers.

23:50

Yeah, that I know to be creeps, you know.

23:53

And I'm like, ew.

23:54

And I'll see them attacking some other guy.

23:56

And I'm like, oh, God.

23:57

I don't dive in, but I want to sometimes.

24:00

Sometimes I want to just burn the boats and pull the fucking pins on the

24:05

grenades.

24:06

You know what I don't like about that sort of level of aggressive criticism?

24:10

I think I'm a, you could describe me as a criticism hyper responder.

24:14

I'm someone for whom it probably impacted me more than it should do.

24:17

Certainly more than it should do for someone who gets the level of attention

24:20

that I've managed to get myself to now.

24:22

Right.

24:23

And what I don't like about it is it causes people like me to be way less

24:28

confident in their own positions.

24:31

Because you think, oh, well, most people, if it was me, I would only give

24:34

feedback if I was really certain.

24:36

And if I had this person's best interests at heart and if I wanted them to do

24:39

better and if I actually knew what I was talking about,

24:41

then I would tell this person what I think about them and what I think about

24:44

what they're saying.

24:45

Right.

24:45

And if you apply that rubric to everybody else that gives you criticism, you

24:50

give undue, unfair expertise,

24:52

and legitimacy to people who don't have your best interests at heart.

24:56

They don't understand what you're trying to do.

24:58

They don't care about you.

24:59

They don't get it.

25:00

And it causes a lot of people, basically, I think that criticism killed more

25:06

dreams than a lack of competence ever did.

25:08

Because people are just, I'm worried about pushing these boundaries too much.

25:12

Sure.

25:12

This person, all of my friends tell me the truth.

25:14

Why isn't this person on the internet?

25:15

There's this idea from Ethan Cross called criticism capture.

25:19

So you'll have heard of audience capture, right?

25:21

Yes.

25:21

Where a creator starts feeding red meat to the audience.

25:23

It becomes very predictable.

25:24

Yes.

25:25

Criticism capture basically says it's not the compliments but the criticisms

25:30

that are more warping.

25:32

That over time, what you end up doing is changing the way that you speak.

25:37

You become a flaming sword-wielding, card-carrying member that's as aggressive

25:43

as possible to push back against it.

25:46

Or you go the other way and you begin to caveat very aggressively.

25:49

You start to dampen down all of your opinions so that nobody can take offense

25:52

to them.

25:53

You have these unnecessarily long sort of diatribes, sort of weird land

25:57

acknowledgement.

25:58

Well, we must remember that women are struggling with the thing and we have to

26:00

do the memories.

26:01

But now we've got that out of the way.

26:03

Let's talk about men's problems or whatever it might be.

26:05

Yes.

26:05

And yeah, I think I just wish that the internet was a little bit more positive

26:11

some as opposed to negative some.

26:13

And I understand that people bind together over mutual hatreds of outgroups.

26:16

But the oldest story in human history is that group of people are different to

26:19

us.

26:20

Yeah.

26:20

Let's get them.

26:21

The oldest story in history.

26:23

I mean, it's tribal genetics.

26:25

It's like baked into our DNA, literally.

26:29

And it can be manipulated.

26:31

And when people are doing it and they're doing it with a very obvious

26:36

distortion of your actual position,

26:39

just to label you as the worst possible, least charitable version of you that

26:46

could ever be remotely considered.

26:50

You see that all the time where people are just trying to distort a narrative.

26:54

You're seeing that right now with Elon, right?

26:56

You're seeing people justify violence and extreme vandalism.

27:03

And you're seeing people cheer it on.

27:05

And it's very strange.

27:06

There was a thing on The Daily Show where the host was talking about the

27:12

attacks on Tesla and people keying people.

27:15

And the audience starts clapping and cheering.

27:16

And the audience starts clapping and cheering.

27:17

It's so strange.

27:20

It's so fucking strange.

27:23

And it also just shows you how positions just completely flip-flop.

27:27

Like the Tesla used to be the car that you drove to let everybody know that you

27:30

were environmentally conscious and you were a good leftist.

27:33

It's a good question.

27:34

Do we care about the environment or not?

27:35

Because those fumes that are being kicked out of that are not good.

27:38

A thousand jet airplanes flying overhead for a year.

27:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

27:43

It's wild.

27:45

You're lighting batteries on fire.

27:46

They're so toxic.

27:47

Lithium and all sorts of shit getting pissed into the environment.

27:50

Oh, it's all going to come down in rain.

27:52

It's going to pollute the water.

27:53

The fish are going to be polluted.

27:55

You're not going to be able to eat them.

27:55

But we're doing good.

27:56

This is for a righteous cause.

27:58

Yeah.

27:58

It's all funded, too.

28:00

It's funded by NGOs.

28:01

That's where it gets really creepy.

28:03

The Tesla fires are funded by NGOs.

28:05

Yeah, people are uncovering exactly what's going on.

28:08

And this is where it gets fascinating because all this stuff has operated

28:13

pretty much with impunity in the past before Doge.

28:16

Before Elon and his crew of hyper-spectrum psychopaths started to—

28:23

Fucking teenage mutant ninja turtles.

28:25

Super wizards started diving into all this data.

28:29

And this is something that Ted Cruz has talked about.

28:31

He said, we had always known that there was these problems.

28:34

But until Elon came along with these algorithms, we couldn't expose them.

28:38

We didn't understand what was going on.

28:40

And now they've used AI to create this understanding of the net of NGOs that is

28:48

all funded by USAID and by similar type programs where, you know,

28:54

you kind of have these open-ended checks that get written to the other side.

28:59

Other side.

28:59

That's the top.

29:00

Yeah, right there.

29:01

How often do you smoke cigars, fella?

29:03

A couple of times.

29:04

Well, I fucking turned this around the wrong way.

29:05

All right.

29:06

No worries.

29:06

Keep going.

29:07

But this is essentially the way Mike Benz describes it.

29:12

He's the very best at it.

29:13

I don't know if you've ever seen his breakdowns of USAID.

29:18

I love his episodes on here.

29:19

Incredible.

29:19

I think they're so interesting.

29:20

They're so interesting because you realize, like, this has been going on

29:23

forever and ever and ever.

29:24

And this is the arm of the government that is about regime change.

29:30

A lot of the money gets funneled into these other countries and it's under the

29:34

guise of, you know, air quotes, aid.

29:37

But it's not aid.

29:38

It's Agency for International Development.

29:41

And it's all about influence and power all throughout the world and also at

29:46

home.

29:46

And one of the things that it does at home is they organize these protests.

29:50

They organize protests.

29:51

Different NGOs do.

29:52

All funded by the government, all funded by taxpayer money in this weird way.

29:58

And when they do it, they pay people to show up at these places.

30:02

I've got pamphlets that people have given me that they've taken from these

30:07

locations or gotten from email lists.

30:09

Is that purposefully no digital record?

30:12

I think probably, but I don't think they care.

30:14

I mean, I think as long as they're saying they're going to pay you to protest,

30:18

I think that's legal.

30:19

I think it's legal to pay someone to protest.

30:21

So they're paying people $1,000 and they're giving them food and snacks and you

30:26

can get a lot of people to just show up for $1,000.

30:29

And then some of them are going to get a little vandal-y.

30:33

Some of them-

30:34

You bring enough people together and they get vandal-y.

30:36

How crazy is it that the left are the ones who are painting swastikas on cars?

30:42

Just understand how crazy positions can flip and flop.

30:47

The left is upset that we're not continuing an endless war in Ukraine.

30:51

The left is upset that this guy is uncovering fraud and waste.

30:56

And so in order to stop that, you must light cars on fire and put swastikas on

31:03

them because he's a Nazi.

31:05

Because he said, my heart goes out to you.

31:08

Even though there's countless videos of AOC doing that gesture, Tim Walsh doing

31:13

that gesture enthusiastically.

31:15

Many, many people.

31:17

I do think if you're in that position, if you've got this heritage coming in,

31:21

just be careful with where you put your hands.

31:23

Don't do that.

31:23

Do you know what I mean?

31:23

Don't do that.

31:24

Like, just fucking think about where you put your hands.

31:27

He's, you know, he's on the spectrum, man.

31:29

He's not normal.

31:30

You've seen that video comparing him and Trump's son?

31:32

There's two different types of autism.

31:34

Have you seen this?

31:36

No, I haven't.

31:37

Oh, my God.

31:37

It's so good.

31:38

I think it's at the inauguration.

31:40

And they're both stood next to each other.

31:43

And Elon's sort of fist pumping and loving it.

31:45

And Trump's son's just, like, staring off.

31:48

Apparently, Trump's son went up to Biden at the inauguration and said, it's on

31:52

now.

31:54

What is this?

31:55

A fucking UFC fight?

31:56

I mean, that's literally, apparently, lip readers have, like, read what he said

32:01

when

32:02

he went up to, because there's a moment where he goes up to Biden and Biden

32:05

looks confused

32:06

and he doesn't smile.

32:08

He's like, eh.

32:09

But he walks up to him and goes, it's on now.

32:11

Well, they need to do, you know, how football coaches have got, they put the

32:16

play thing over

32:17

the front of their mouth like this and they talk into it.

32:19

That's how it needs to be done now for politics with lip readers everywhere.

32:22

That kid knew there was lip readers.

32:23

I don't think he gave a fuck.

32:24

I think they tried to put his dad in jail and he wants to kill that guy.

32:27

That's what I think.

32:28

He's like, fuck you.

32:30

Because imagine your dad's getting that close to put in jail for bullshit for

32:34

the rest of

32:34

his life.

32:35

Like, if he got put in jail for 25 to life, he's dead.

32:38

He's dead.

32:39

He dies in jail.

32:40

He's going to get no food.

32:41

He's going to be no nutrition, no sunlight, depression, intense fucking anxiety.

32:48

You're in jail.

32:48

You're dead.

32:49

He's 80 years old.

32:50

He's not going to last to 105 in jail.

32:52

There was a video from Forbes recently that got a million plays in a day

32:57

talking about

32:58

Trump getting like bopped on the nose by a boomer.

33:01

Yeah, by a little boomer.

33:03

He just did a little boop on the nose.

33:05

Yeah.

33:05

I have to say I have such fucking news politics fatigue already.

33:11

Well, what?

33:12

Two months into the sort of presidency.

33:14

And it is the velocity of bullshit.

33:18

If you can get a million plays in a day because Trump got bopped on the nose by

33:23

a fucking

33:24

boom mic, it just, the appetite is, it seems endless for it.

33:29

It just feels, it's very, it's exhausting.

33:32

I'm kind of having to check out.

33:33

And I know that people say, oh, well, it's a luxurious position.

33:36

You don't need to pay attention to politics.

33:38

It's a luxurious position for you to be in.

33:39

People at the bottom, they do need to pay attention to politics.

33:42

It's an interesting stat because actually the most educated, wealthiest people

33:45

are the

33:46

ones that spend the most time consuming news and talking about politics.

33:48

It's the people at the bottom rung of the ladder that don't.

33:51

So that's not true.

33:52

I'm just fucking exhausted.

33:54

I'm so-

33:55

You're allowed to be exhausted.

33:56

It's ridiculous.

33:58

Newsweek wrote an article about how one of the names of one of our podcast

34:04

guests, who's

34:05

a good friend of mine, Michael Costa, his name was misspelled accidentally.

34:12

On the feed?

34:13

On the feed.

34:14

On the loading feed.

34:16

And so Newsweek-

34:16

Is that you, Jamie?

34:17

It wasn't even misspelled.

34:18

I don't know.

34:18

It was miscapitalized.

34:19

The second letter had a capitalization too.

34:23

I don't know.

34:24

The defense rests its case here.

34:25

It wasn't even misspelled, right?

34:27

It was M, capital I, Michael Costa.

34:31

Like me, Kyle Costa or something.

34:34

Okay.

34:35

There's a headline.

34:36

It's a fucking article in Newsweek.

34:39

You ever think that your career would result in you having typos for a headline,

34:43

Jamie?

34:43

Newsweek!

34:44

I don't even know which ones we've missed.

34:46

I'm sure there's been other ones.

34:46

That's just the first one I've seen.

34:47

100%.

34:48

What happens, it happens.

34:49

People make mistakes.

34:50

You're typing things in.

34:52

Yeah.

34:52

But the fact that it's an article that we're being called out for a typo.

34:57

Must be a fucking-

34:59

That's an article.

34:59

But it's just anything for clicks, man.

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36:26

Anything for clicks.

36:27

That was something that I noticed, a trend that I've noticed over the last

36:30

couple of years.

36:31

Legacy media is really struggling to garner attention itself.

36:36

It seems like fewer and fewer people are listening to it.

36:39

We saw that over the last election.

36:40

You know, it seems to me like the best way that legacy media can gain traffic

36:46

is to talk about independent media.

36:48

Yeah.

36:49

How many times are we seeing headlines about Andrew Huberman or about the right-wing

36:54

manosphere pipeline and how it's getting people to do this?

36:58

Or the other side, like, why is there not a Joe Rogan of the left?

37:00

Like, you know, whatever the headline is, more and more, the way that legacy

37:05

media is able to achieve traffic is only in reference to independent media.

37:10

Yes.

37:11

So they're, as opposed to us being downstream from them, they're now downstream

37:14

from us.

37:15

Yeah, and anything masculine is right-wing.

37:17

Anything.

37:18

You cannot be masculine.

37:21

Like, you cannot be interested in physical fitness, anything.

37:25

It's a pipeline to being right-wing.

37:26

Yes.

37:27

You can't like fast cars.

37:29

No.

37:29

You're not allowed to.

37:31

You're not even allowed to like Teslas anymore.

37:33

Misogynist.

37:34

Which are the fastest cars.

37:35

Yeah, you're a misogynist.

37:36

You're probably racist.

37:37

Maybe a Nazi.

37:38

I'm going to put a swastika in your car just to let everybody know.

37:44

It's, there was some really fucking stupid graph that someone put up of how

37:49

right-wing social media and new media people dominate.

37:53

That was the Media Matters study.

37:55

Yeah.

37:55

This is interesting.

37:56

I was at the top of the list.

37:58

I was at the top of the list and I was like, I feel like the way Caitlyn Jenner

38:01

must have felt, like when she won woman of the year.

38:04

It's so quick I got to the top of the list.

38:08

I'm not even right-wing.

38:10

Just because I support Trump, I support him over the rest of the fucking

38:13

nonsense that was going on when you're trying to push through someone without

38:17

even a primary.

38:19

Here it is.

38:19

This is it.

38:20

I'm number one, bitch.

38:21

It's kind of funny.

38:23

Like, they're putting Theo Vaughn in there.

38:25

Lex Friedman.

38:25

Yeah, that's, Lex Friedman, that's hilarious to put him in there.

38:29

Who else do they have in there that's ridiculous?

38:30

Piers Morgan.

38:32

Well, Piers Morgan is kind of light-right-leaning, I think.

38:36

Light-right.

38:37

But I think he's pretty reasonable.

38:39

I think he's far more of a centrist.

38:42

Kill Tony 3.5.

38:44

I still don't understand how that's a political show.

38:47

It's not, but Tony, you know, was at the White House or the...

38:53

Flagrant 2.8.

38:54

Flagrant is not a right-wing show, you fucking idiots.

38:58

They have a bunch of red dots, too, with no names on them, and then bulldogs.

39:01

You're allowed to.

39:01

Shut up, Jamie.

39:02

Stop being...

39:03

I managed to thread the needle of avoiding this.

39:05

You're going to get on there now.

39:08

They're going to put you on now.

39:09

Jamie, those red ones are real.

39:12

Just shut up.

39:12

No, I'm just...

39:13

I don't know why they're real.

39:13

No, they're real.

39:14

They're all real.

39:15

There's a couple blue ones that are real, too.

39:17

Fuck the name.

39:19

Yeah.

39:19

They're too little to get a name.

39:21

Too small.

39:21

No one cares.

39:21

No one gives a fuck.

39:22

Yeah.

39:22

It's hilarious.

39:23

It's very funny.

39:24

What do you think of the...

39:26

Have you got a proposed reason for why this?

39:30

Is it just a judgment criteria that they're judging shows that aren't right-wing

39:34

as right-wing?

39:36

Or is it genuinely that, for some reason, the left is struggling to make

39:39

progress in independent media?

39:41

Well, they're struggling to make progress in independent media, for sure.

39:44

And they're trying to figure out why.

39:45

They're trying to figure out why these...

39:48

What they're calling right-wing...

39:50

I think if you looked at all my positions, I think way more of them are left-wing

39:54

than right-wing.

39:55

What are the left-wing positions that you still hold?

39:58

Well, the big one is having some sort of a social safety net.

40:02

I was on welfare when I was a kid.

40:04

My family was on food stamps.

40:06

We were fucking poor as shit.

40:07

And I remember that helping us a lot.

40:11

We had food.

40:12

Where I don't know what we would be doing if we did...

40:16

I mean, we were in a bad place.

40:18

And there's social safety nets for people.

40:20

My family got out of that.

40:22

And my stepfather and my mother wound up doing well.

40:25

They did really great.

40:27

And they got out of debt and bought a house and great job and the whole deal.

40:32

But when I was a little boy, we were fucked.

40:35

And I think social safety nets are very important for people.

40:40

It's very important for society.

40:42

If you care about people, you care about the whole society.

40:44

You don't want people starving when there's ways to develop government programs

40:49

to make

40:49

sure people have food.

40:51

And I think this idea of pulling them up by their bootstraps is horse shit.

40:57

Some people don't have boots.

40:59

They don't have straps.

41:00

They don't have nothing.

41:02

They're fucked from the moment they were born.

41:05

They were born into a bad family environment, in a bad neighborhood, and crime,

41:09

and gangs,

41:09

and drugs.

41:10

And it's not even playing field.

41:14

Where are you at with health care?

41:15

I think health care, 100%, should be socially funded.

41:20

I think that Medicare and Medicaid, having programs where people who are hurt

41:26

can get an operation

41:28

and it's not going to bankrupt them for the rest of their life, is another

41:31

thing that I think

41:32

society should be a part of our agreement to take care of each other as a

41:37

community.

41:39

That we chip in money for what people would think of as socialist positions.

41:43

And I always bring up the fire department because the fire department is one of

41:46

the best examples

41:47

that everybody sort of agrees.

41:48

It's a socialist sort of thing.

41:50

You give your tax dollars.

41:53

The tax dollars supports the fire department.

41:55

The fire department fairly puts out fires for everybody.

41:57

They don't not put out your fire if you don't have any money.

42:01

It's not like they don't, the fires don't.

42:03

It's such a good example.

42:04

But when you compare that to the way that medical access is done, at least in

42:07

this country.

42:08

But I also believe in competition.

42:11

I've said this before, I'll say it again.

42:12

I want my doctor to be a bad motherfucker who drives a Mercedes.

42:15

I want my doctor to be really good.

42:17

I want him to be an artist.

42:19

I want him to go to the guy who fixes the Lakers knees.

42:21

That's the guy you want.

42:23

You want that guy who has a nice watch and he lives in a nice house and he

42:26

kicks ass.

42:27

And he knows how to fucking fix people really well.

42:29

He's the best at it.

42:31

And you go to him and you get an operation and you're fucking golden.

42:34

That's what you want.

42:35

You want competition because competition inspires excellence.

42:40

You know, being rewarded for your hard work is a giant incentive for people to

42:46

get amazing at things.

42:47

And you need that.

42:48

You need that too.

42:49

But there's also a lot of very good doctors who would be very happy to do

42:57

something that helps the overall greater good of the community.

43:02

Just like you have really good criminal defense attorneys that are, you know,

43:07

assigned to you if you're, you know, if you're getting unjustly tried and you

43:12

want a really good one that can help you.

43:14

You know, there's state appointed attorneys that are just good people that want

43:19

to help people.

43:20

You know, Bill Murray was talking about his daughter.

43:22

His daughter does that.

43:22

There's, you know, there's room for that with the amount of money that we spend

43:27

on so many things that we all agree are fucked.

43:31

And maybe some of that could be freed up with some of this USAID money that

43:34

they're pulling.

43:35

I mean, there's nothing wrong with giving people health care.

43:39

Like, if you know anybody that's been injured and was bankrupt because they

43:43

didn't have insurance and then they had to get some crazy operation and now

43:47

they have this enormous debt and they wind up going bankrupt or they're getting

43:50

chased down for the money for the rest of their life.

43:52

It's horrible.

43:53

It's the number one cause of bankruptcy in America.

43:55

Yeah.

43:55

Medical debt.

43:56

I mean, coming from the UK where we've got the NHS, it feels fucking barbaric.

44:00

It really does feel barbaric.

44:02

I remember I went to New Orleans and I was getting this great ghost tour on an

44:06

evening tie.

44:06

It's like fun tourist shit to do in New Orleans.

44:09

I do those.

44:09

And the guide was so good.

44:12

My mother was a Wiccan and I don't know if that was true, but the tale was

44:15

lovely.

44:16

Anyway, and he was telling me I've got a chipped wisdom tooth and my girlfriend

44:21

got into a car wreck the other day and he basically said, he was explaining to

44:25

me about how you can get bankrupted by this stuff.

44:29

He was like, if you get hit by a car and you don't have insurance, you better

44:31

fucking walk it off.

44:32

Because if you don't, that could be the end of essentially the beginning of the

44:35

end of your life.

44:37

And that really, I mean, that was six, seven years ago now.

44:40

And it's still like, that was the most haunting thing about the fucking ghost

44:43

tour.

44:43

Him telling me about the medical debt.

44:47

And then I think the reaction to the UnitedHealth CEO killing as well.

44:51

For me, somebody who didn't fully understand how many of the claims are denied,

44:57

I think that there was an increase by about 30% in denial of claims over only

45:00

the most recent period.

45:02

And I just thought, guy shoots person, typically the guy that shoots them is in

45:07

the wrong.

45:08

And the reaction on the internet just, I wasn't ready for it.

45:12

And it really sort of taught me this undercurrent of dissatisfaction that

45:17

almost everybody in America has with the healthcare system.

45:22

Yeah, I think it's a quiet epidemic.

45:24

I think there's been a lot of people massively affected by it.

45:29

And they're just steaming, just sitting there seething, just angry.

45:33

Waiting for some righteous person to come in and do retribution.

45:36

But then you see the fucking revolving door between the FDA and the

45:40

pharmaceutical drug corporations where these people leave.

45:43

And then all of a sudden they have these amazing jobs at pharmaceutical drug

45:46

companies.

45:47

They're making millions of dollars.

45:48

Like, how is that legal?

45:49

How is this whole thing legal?

45:51

Like, when you realize that doctors are incentivized to medicate people, they're

45:57

financially incentivized to give people certain medications, whether it's

46:02

vaccines, they get bonuses if they vaccinate more than 60% of their clients.

46:07

And they lose those bonuses if people don't get vaccinated.

46:10

There's like a lot of creepy shit that's involved in medicine.

46:14

The FDA ban on compounded Ozempic started yesterday.

46:19

Oh, it's a ban.

46:21

So you have to get it from the big companies.

46:23

Correct.

46:24

Brigham taught me about this.

46:26

I didn't understand how it works.

46:27

If there's a shortage of a drug, compounding pharmacies are kind of allowed to

46:31

just bypass patents in some way.

46:33

It's like you can produce it and you can make it cheaper and more widely

46:35

available because the supply chain is fucked or something like that.

46:38

That would be a good thing for society.

46:41

Well, to make more drugs more widely available for cheaper.

46:44

If it's a very important pharmaceutical drug that can save people's lives,

46:49

imagine not letting compound pharmacies make it for people that can't get it.

46:54

Yeah, or can't afford it or don't have the insurance for it.

46:56

So, yeah, I mean, that came into effect.

46:58

I think tizepatide got popped yesterday.

47:00

And then partway through April, semaglutide is going to go as well.

47:05

Yeah, that's all just eliminating competition, right?

47:07

Well, we need to think, you know, all of the people that are using these drugs,

47:11

that are losing weight with them, whatever.

47:14

We need to think about who the real sort of people suffering from this

47:17

situation are, who are the stock owners of telehealth companies.

47:21

If you own HIMSS or whatever, the stock's declined by a lot.

47:26

But, dude, I've been thinking so much about Ozempic recently.

47:29

And I think the introduction of Ozempic proves how much of a scam the body

47:34

positivity movement was all along.

47:36

You look at the Golden Globes and all of the women that were supporting their

47:41

bigger sisters, as soon as there was an easy route to being able to become a

47:46

skeleton, they look like this.

47:49

Look like this guy here.

47:50

They all get those sucked in cheeks and the eye sockets suck in.

47:55

It looks really creepy.

47:57

It just shows how flimsy your principles are, that it was easier for you to say,

48:03

I can't win this particular game, therefore the game is rigged.

48:08

Like, if you can't get what you want, you have to teach yourself to want what

48:10

you can get and then proclaim to everybody else that they should get it too.

48:13

Yes.

48:14

And, yeah, the Golden Globes, you've just got these fucking skeleton motherfuckers

48:18

walking around.

48:22

Yeah, I mean, women of Hollywood are now facing the same dilemma that dudes who

48:27

go to the gym have had for decades because it's pointless losing weight

48:31

naturally.

48:32

Why would you lose weight naturally?

48:34

Because everybody's going to accuse you of having used Ozempic in any case.

48:37

Same thing as a dude.

48:38

If you gain weight as a guy and you get jacked, really jacked, if you really

48:41

discipline yourself, you know, multiple years, progressive overload, time under

48:45

tension, hitting your protein goals, getting enough sleep.

48:48

What your friends and the people of the internet will say is, yeah, dude, easy

48:51

if you take TrendBelone.

48:52

Right.

48:53

And it's the exact same.

48:54

So, what is the incentive for anybody to lose weight naturally?

48:58

Right.

48:58

And apart from I have some concerns about the drugs and the side effects and so

49:02

on and so forth, socially, there is no incentive for you to lose weight

49:05

naturally.

49:06

You remember when Adele lost all that weight?

49:08

Uh-huh, I think I'm mad at her.

49:09

In the before times.

49:10

She did it in the before times, dude.

49:11

Right.

49:12

She did it hard.

49:13

Yeah, she did it the fucking, yeah, exactly.

49:14

The hard way.

49:14

Yeah, exactly.

49:15

Extreme difficulty.

49:16

Yeah.

49:17

But, yeah, now, now she's hot.

49:19

Do you remember when she did that Jamaica thing?

49:21

She came out and she had all of her hair, like, done like this.

49:24

Yeah.

49:24

But, yeah, there's this odd, like, Pascal's wager that you have to make where

49:28

you think, I can either lose weight normally or without assistance.

49:33

It's going to be more difficult and people are going to accuse me of using Ozempic

49:36

in any case.

49:37

Or I can just take it and it'll be easier and they'll accuse me of it.

49:41

Nothing changes.

49:42

Yeah.

49:42

I'm in favor of Ozempic for people that are morbidly obese.

49:47

I think anything that can get you on the path.

49:50

And I think if you can combine that, if you can say, okay, this is what I'm

49:54

doing, so I'm going to do this and then I'm going to start an exercise program.

49:58

And then you wind up losing 30, 40 pounds.

50:00

You feel better.

50:01

You look better.

50:02

If you can continue this exercise program, you've at least put a healthy thing

50:07

in your life along with Ozempic.

50:10

I think that's critical because also that can mitigate some of the negative

50:14

effects of one of the things that we're seeing is that people are losing a lot

50:17

of muscle mass and a lot of bone mass.

50:20

As much as 30% of the weight that people are losing is muscle and bone.

50:23

And that, I think, could probably be mitigated with regular strength training.

50:28

You know, you're only hearing about this from people that aren't strength

50:30

training.

50:31

Do not have a fitness regime.

50:32

Right, right, but which is the majority of these people that need this drug in

50:34

the first place.

50:35

That's how they got fat in the first place.

50:36

Right, right.

50:37

So, Johan Hari did a really great buck on this.

50:39

You've had Johan on a bunch of times.

50:40

He wrote this book called Magic Pill.

50:42

And he's got just a really nice takeaway.

50:44

He says, if you're under BMI of 30 and you're trying to lose weight, go fuck

50:49

yourself.

50:49

If you're between 30 and 35, there's probably a value judgment you need to make.

50:55

And if you're over 35 BMI, the cost-benefit analysis seems to sort of work in

50:59

your favor.

51:00

Yeah, people are losing more muscle and bone mass from using Ozempic than you

51:05

would typically if you were not using that.

51:09

But I think that that's just largely a selection criteria for the sort of

51:11

people that are using Ozempic to help them lose weight.

51:14

That they're so heavily calorie-restricted that they don't need to have a

51:19

fitness program.

51:20

Right.

51:20

They don't have to really change their diet.

51:22

I learned this.

51:23

Johan taught me this thing.

51:24

It's super interesting.

51:25

Gastric band surgery, after people have that, the suicide risk is pretty high.

51:31

And sometimes it's because of these surgeons that leave the gauze in or, you

51:36

know, like leave a scalpel or like a fucking cigar end in.

51:39

There's complications that can happen physically.

51:41

But the other thing that happens is these people used food as their coping

51:46

mechanism for how they would feel better.

51:49

Right.

51:50

And their ability to eat and their appetite has gone away, but their

51:54

psychological issues have not.

51:56

And they don't have a coping mechanism anymore.

51:58

They've no longer got this outlet.

51:59

Right.

51:59

And then there's the issue also, you're not going to feel as good because your

52:03

body's not absorbing nutrients correctly.

52:05

You're missing some of your stomach.

52:08

You know, it's like your stomach fills up quicker because they removed part of

52:12

it.

52:12

Like that can't be good just for overall metabolic health.

52:16

Like you're, you're, you've diminished your body's ability to break down food.

52:20

That just can't be good.

52:21

And there's other ways to do it.

52:23

There's other ways to do it.

52:25

It's like, there's a gambling term that you got to get better the same way you

52:28

got sick.

52:29

So like, say if you and I were playing a pool and we're playing for a hundred

52:34

dollars a game.

52:35

Okay.

52:36

And you're up five games.

52:38

You're up 500 bucks.

52:39

And I say next game for 500 bucks.

52:41

And you go, no, you got to get better the same way you got sick.

52:45

Oh, that's interesting.

52:46

You can't just win one game and now you're even.

52:49

And they're like, come on, what are you, pussy?

52:51

You scared?

52:52

Like, no, that's not how this works.

52:54

You lost one at a time.

52:55

You're not gaining it all back.

52:55

You went down a dark road and you missed a lot of shots and now you're fucked.

52:59

And I'm not going to let you off the hook with one easy thing.

53:03

I might do that if it's like, okay, you put up a thousand and I'll put up 300.

53:10

We'll see that.

53:12

If you stack it in my, yeah.

53:13

If you reflect in the odds where we're at financially at the moment.

53:16

You got a jacket in my favor while I'm willing to make a risk.

53:19

Yeah, it's a strange.

53:22

I think another thing with Ozempic, I have this theory that I think thin people

53:26

are more

53:26

prejudiced against people that use Ozempic than fat people are.

53:29

So typically you would say, stay with me.

53:32

I think you're right.

53:34

So you would have imagined, and this did happen, some areas of the body

53:38

positivity movement said

53:40

that it was denying their right to exist, that it was like erasure, you know,

53:45

that you're

53:47

losing your bigger brothers and sisters.

53:49

I don't know.

53:51

But they're not actually threatened in the same way as in weight people are.

53:55

So I'm aware that losing weight through Ozempic is not the same as getting in

54:00

shape, especially

54:01

if you don't do the health and fitness regime.

54:03

If you don't do the resistance exercise, you end up gone skinny fat, you know,

54:07

jowls, big

54:08

cheeks, all that stuff.

54:08

But the signal of being in shape, let's just take that as being in shape, right?

54:13

Like a normal BMI.

54:14

The signal of being in shape is usually a reliable indicator of what you've

54:18

done to

54:18

have to get that.

54:19

Right.

54:19

Disciplined, reliable, able to do hard things, self-motivated.

54:25

Consistency.

54:26

Consistent, stick to a routine, conscientious, industrious, all of these things.

54:30

So you look at somebody who's in shape and you think, I can infer from your

54:35

body a lot

54:35

of things about who you are beyond just your body.

54:38

I actually think that this is one of the huge benefits that most people don't

54:41

realize about

54:42

getting in shape if they want to attract a partner or whatever.

54:44

It's, you should, the body looks great when you take the clothes off, but what

54:48

does it

54:48

signal about your personality, about your underlying values and what you do?

54:53

Now, the problem with the introduction of easier routes to being in shape is

54:59

that it's

55:00

completely derogated the signal.

55:02

The signal is now no longer reliable.

55:03

Right.

55:04

Because previously the signal said, I've had to jump through all of these

55:07

different hoops.

55:08

Well, now, how do you know if they've jumped through all of those hoops or if

55:10

they're

55:10

just shooting a Zempic once a week?

55:12

Right.

55:12

And I think that this explains why a lot of people who are in shape have a real

55:17

visceral

55:18

reaction.

55:19

Now, sure, lots of people are concerned about the drugs.

55:21

Fen-Fen was this thing in the 90s that fucked people up.

55:24

It was speed.

55:25

Yeah.

55:26

I mean, it's a good way to lose weight.

55:29

I knew a girl who was on it.

55:30

She was a very pretty girl that was a little heavy.

55:34

And then got on the Fen-Fen and just wanted to talk to everybody.

55:37

Couldn't stop talking.

55:38

And got real thin.

55:39

I was like, this is crazy.

55:41

And then she developed a heart problem.

55:42

Yeah.

55:44

That she kept for the rest of her life, I believe.

55:46

I don't know her anymore, but I ran into her a couple years later and she was

55:50

telling me

55:51

she has a heart problem.

55:52

There's been no free lunch in weight loss ever yet.

55:55

No.

55:55

And I think that people are looking at the GLP-1s and thinking, where's the

55:59

side effect?

56:00

When's it coming?

56:00

What's it going to do?

56:01

Well, there's tons of side effects.

56:02

It depends upon the person because obviously people are very different biologically.

56:06

Everyone has a different tolerance to alcohol.

56:09

People have different tolerances to foods.

56:11

And you're going to have different tolerances to medications.

56:13

And I have good friends that have had horrible side effects from Oz-MPEC.

56:17

They tried it.

56:18

They got on it.

56:19

Terrible.

56:19

Pancreatitis.

56:20

Yeah.

56:22

I got a buddy of mine.

56:23

He was in bed for two weeks.

56:25

He was really sick.

56:27

And I know several other people that just feel terrible when they take it.

56:31

And they had to get off of it.

56:33

It was really fucking with them.

56:34

And then I know other people that have taken it.

56:36

Like a buddy of mine that works at the UFC.

56:38

We ran into him the other day.

56:39

I'm like, dude, you look fucking great.

56:41

And he's like, yeah, I got on Oz-MPEC.

56:43

Fuck it.

56:43

I just went for it.

56:44

I said, hey, man.

56:45

And he had a whole plan.

56:46

He's going to get down to a certain weight and then he's going to taper off.

56:49

Transition.

56:49

But he looked great.

56:51

He looked great.

56:52

You seen Alex Jones?

56:53

Yeah, but Alex is not on anything.

56:55

I know.

56:55

He's not on his epic at all.

56:57

He works with my friend Sean.

56:58

On it?

56:59

Yeah.

56:59

I've been watching him train.

57:01

I've been watching him train on a Tuesday.

57:02

Not watching him train.

57:04

He trains when I train.

57:05

I'm not following Alex Jones around.

57:06

And he's getting after it.

57:10

I know.

57:10

That's exactly what someone from the deep state would say.

57:12

Do you know him?

57:13

Or did you just see him there?

57:14

I spied him over the far side.

57:16

You never had a conversation with him?

57:17

I once saw him when I did Tim Poole's show in the RV outside of the Info Wars

57:24

car park.

57:26

Oh, yeah.

57:26

I did that.

57:27

Yeah.

57:27

It was the same week.

57:28

That was the first week I was ever in Austin.

57:30

It was three and a bit years ago.

57:31

I remember that live stream.

57:32

That was fun.

57:34

Alex is a lovely person.

57:35

He really is.

57:36

He's working really hard in the gym.

57:38

If he just had that one thing that he didn't talk about, that's it.

57:41

It's that one thing.

57:42

Everything else has been mostly right about.

57:44

You know what I should have said?

57:45

Alex Jones is like the fucking patient zero for if you lose weight by going to

57:50

the gym

57:51

and working out and changing your diet, people are just going to say it was a

57:53

Zen pick.

57:54

No, people think he's a totally different person.

57:56

They think they've replaced Alex Jones with someone else.

57:59

Did David Icke have a pop at Alex Jones recently?

58:03

Did he?

58:04

Who did David Icke get in trouble with, Jamie?

58:06

Was that, I feel like there was some, it was somebody else in that sort of a

58:11

world.

58:11

But yeah, I mean, if the reptile people, like it does, it gets a bit reptile-y

58:15

when

58:15

you get down to the lower body fat percentages.

58:17

David, I saw something, he got upset that I've never had him on the show.

58:20

And it's just the reptile stuff.

58:22

It's just the shapeshifter stuff.

58:24

I would still have him on.

58:25

I think fascinating just to try to pick some of those ideas apart or listen to

58:30

them.

58:31

Even if you don't believe in the ideas, what's interesting is how does somebody

58:35

arrive

58:35

at them?

58:36

That's what's fascinating to me.

58:37

When I do my show, I speak to someone, I'm like, I want to understand the

58:40

psychology of

58:42

how you have arrived at this particular position.

58:44

Well, imagine if it's real.

58:46

I mean, if shapeshifters were real, if there really are evil reptilian aliens

58:52

and they've

58:53

infiltrated our society and they've been pulling the strings forever and only a

58:58

couple of people

58:59

knew, how ridiculous would that idea be?

59:02

How ridiculous?

59:03

It would be so ridiculous.

59:05

But is an alien shapeshifter, reptile person, is that any weirder than the most

59:14

recent theory

59:15

that our entire universe is taking place inside of a black hole that's in

59:19

another universe?

59:21

Yeah, there's recent calculations that are leading these, I guess it would be

59:27

astrophysicists,

59:28

like who would be studying this?

59:30

See if you can find it, Jamie.

59:32

It's the most bizarre headline.

59:35

Because you're like, what the fuck are you saying?

59:37

Like the whole universe is inside of a black hole?

59:39

New NASA data hints we could be living inside a black hole.

59:43

Great.

59:43

Now is that, isn't that weirder than reptile people?

59:48

Because reptile people is like, reptile people is not that weird, right?

59:54

Like octopi have the ability to completely transform their appearance and

1:00:00

instantaneously adapt

1:00:02

to an environment.

1:00:03

Why wouldn't we assume to some super advanced species from another planet that

1:00:07

we would be horrified

1:00:08

if we saw their real face, they'd just transform and look like the queen of

1:00:12

England?

1:00:13

Yeah, and go sideways like that.

1:00:14

Yeah, fuck.

1:00:15

Do you know what a Boltzmann brain is?

1:00:17

Have you ever heard of this?

1:00:18

No.

1:00:18

Okay, so in an infinite universe, infinite, there is only, let's say the size

1:00:24

of your brain,

1:00:25

it's like, whatever, 20 centimeters cubed or something, maybe 30 centimeters

1:00:28

cubed.

1:00:29

Inside that space, there's only so many ways that you can put matter together

1:00:33

so that it

1:00:35

creates anything.

1:00:37

There's a limited number of ways that matter can come together with different

1:00:39

elements,

1:00:40

different structures, different everything like that.

1:00:41

So Boltzmann brain suggests that across an infinite universe, there will be a

1:00:47

brain the

1:00:48

exact same as yours, the exact structure as yours, that comes into existence

1:00:52

for a moment

1:00:53

and then goes away.

1:00:54

And the reason that you could be experiencing the world that you are now, all

1:00:58

of your memories,

1:00:59

your past, your history, the person that you think you are, is that you are a

1:01:02

Boltzmann

1:01:03

brain that just comes into existence and then goes.

1:01:07

Why do you come into existence and then go away?

1:01:10

Why don't you just exist somewhere else?

1:01:12

You could exist somewhere else, but this brain appears just spontaneously

1:01:17

because in an infinite

1:01:18

universe, there is only so many different ways that you can piece matter

1:01:21

together.

1:01:22

Right.

1:01:22

And it means that if you, it's the monkey's typewriter thing.

1:01:25

It's the exact same as that, but for the way that matter is constructed.

1:01:28

It's basically like a brain in a vat idea, but using infinite physics to kind

1:01:33

of explain it.

1:01:33

The way it was explained to me is that if the universe is truly infinite, not

1:01:37

only is there

1:01:38

another version of you somewhere, but there is another version of you that did

1:01:44

the exact

1:01:45

same thing you have done every step of the way.

1:01:49

Every time you sneezed, every hesitation before you spoke your mind, every time

1:01:56

you almost went

1:01:57

into traffic when you didn't realize their light was still red, all of those

1:02:01

things have

1:02:01

happened in the exact same order an infinite number of times and every possible

1:02:08

conceivable

1:02:09

variation.

1:02:10

That you were red instead of blue.

1:02:12

Yep.

1:02:12

That you turned left instead of right.

1:02:14

Yep.

1:02:14

Went trans instead of straight.

1:02:16

All of it.

1:02:18

All of it.

1:02:19

That you live in a totalitarian environment, that you live in a utopia, that

1:02:23

you, that,

1:02:24

you know, the, the Germans won the war that, yeah, all that, everything,

1:02:29

everything that

1:02:30

could possibly be different would be different in, in every possible scenario.

1:02:35

That's what infinite means.

1:02:36

It means it's so vast.

1:02:38

Like the craziest one to me was the concept that inside every galaxy in the

1:02:43

center of every

1:02:45

galaxy is a supermassive black hole.

1:02:47

And that supermassive black hole is approximately one half of 1% of the mass of

1:02:51

the entire galaxy.

1:02:52

If you go into that supermassive black hole, so there's hundreds of billions of

1:02:55

galaxies,

1:02:56

right?

1:02:56

Inside that supermassive black hole is an entirely another universe filled with

1:03:03

unit with, with

1:03:04

all sorts of different galaxies that have supermassive black holes in them.

1:03:08

You go into one of those, another universe filled, supermassive black holes,

1:03:13

another universe filled, all

1:03:15

supermassive black holes, each one, another universe.

1:03:18

It's just a wind zip file all the way down.

1:03:20

But why is that weirder than the universe is infinite?

1:03:23

Why is that weirder?

1:03:24

I mean, just the weirdness of what it is is so fucking insane.

1:03:28

The idea that it's infinite or that there's an infinite multiverses and

1:03:33

infinite versions

1:03:35

of these things inside black holes and in all sorts of ways that we haven't

1:03:39

even really

1:03:40

figured out yet.

1:03:41

That's, that's not that much weirder than what's real.

1:03:45

What's real is insane.

1:03:47

What's real is that the whole thing was smaller than the head of a pen.

1:03:51

And for no understandable reason, it expanded instantaneously and became the

1:03:57

universe that

1:03:58

you see in the sky today.

1:03:59

Okay.

1:04:00

Okay.

1:04:01

What, what the fuck are you saying?

1:04:03

Like, McKenna had a great line about that, that science requires of you but one

1:04:07

miracle.

1:04:08

The Big Bang.

1:04:10

It's a miracle.

1:04:12

It's, it's, what is it, what is it if it's not that?

1:04:15

I mean, it's a thing of science.

1:04:17

Yes.

1:04:17

Okay.

1:04:18

So if you can study all of the matter and you study all of the forces and all

1:04:23

the energy

1:04:24

and all the reasons why matter coalesces or matter expands, yes, you could

1:04:30

probably give

1:04:31

it enough time and enough quantum computing power, figure out what's causing

1:04:35

everything

1:04:36

to compress down smaller than the head of a pen and then explode.

1:04:40

But it's still crazy.

1:04:42

It's, it's, even if you can, you had some scientific explanation for it.

1:04:47

It's fucking insane.

1:04:48

I got into supervoids.

1:04:50

So there's, the Buettas supervoid.

1:04:54

Yeah.

1:04:54

So areas of the universe that have big absences of matter, way more than there

1:05:00

should be.

1:05:01

And the, the Buettas supervoid is the biggest one.

1:05:05

I think a ton 6118 or something is one of the biggest stars or one of the

1:05:10

biggest black

1:05:11

holes and then this Buettas supervoid is because you would expect homogeneity.

1:05:15

Yeah.

1:05:16

Across the universe.

1:05:17

Things would be distributed pretty evenly.

1:05:19

No.

1:05:19

So what's this big hole here?

1:05:21

Jamie, can you try and find a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a boot is, Buettas

1:05:25

supervoid

1:05:25

thing.

1:05:25

I love the videos that show you the size of earth and the size of our sun and

1:05:29

the size of

1:05:30

other suns.

1:05:31

You realize just how fucking insignificant you are.

1:05:33

You get to suns that are as big as our galaxy.

1:05:35

What the fuck?

1:05:37

Yeah.

1:05:37

What the fuck?

1:05:39

Yeah.

1:05:40

I don't know if there's suns that big, but there's definitely suns as big as

1:05:44

our solar

1:05:44

system.

1:05:45

Well, looking at the night sky gives you a really wonderful piece of

1:05:48

perspective, right?

1:05:49

It reminds you just how puny and insignificant you are.

1:05:52

I think that's a giant problem with our society is that light pollution keeps

1:05:56

us from seeing

1:05:56

that all the time.

1:05:57

The mysterious hole in the universe that's billions of times larger than the

1:06:01

Milky Way.

1:06:01

So go one left, a list of voids, Jamie.

1:06:06

Yeah, that one.

1:06:07

Just big holes.

1:06:09

Yeah.

1:06:10

So you should not have, it should be more evenly distributed.

1:06:14

Yeah.

1:06:14

And yeah, the Buetta is void.

1:06:16

You know, this huge lack.

1:06:18

Yeah.

1:06:20

In the middle of, it's so cool.

1:06:24

Imagine you take a left turn in a spaceship.

1:06:26

Fuck!

1:06:27

Not here.

1:06:27

Not the Buetta's super void.

1:06:28

Not again.

1:06:29

God damn it.

1:06:30

You can't land for a hundred million years.

1:06:33

Dude, I had Matthew McConaughey on the show toward the back end of last year

1:06:37

and we talked about

1:06:38

Interstellar's 10th year anniversary.

1:06:40

That show is still, that movie is still my favorite movie of all time.

1:06:44

It's an amazing movie.

1:06:45

I just saw it again like a couple weeks ago.

1:06:47

Me too.

1:06:47

It was incredible.

1:06:48

It's so good.

1:06:49

It's so weird.

1:06:50

Such a weird movie.

1:06:52

Nolan's a fucking king.

1:06:53

He's a wizard.

1:06:54

Everything that he does.

1:06:55

Yeah.

1:06:55

What's the new one?

1:06:56

What's his new movie?

1:06:57

That he's in?

1:06:58

The Odyssey, I think.

1:06:59

Oh, yeah.

1:07:00

What is the Odyssey?

1:07:02

Like the Homer.

1:07:03

Oh, God.

1:07:04

Really?

1:07:05

Ooh.

1:07:05

I don't know that story either, so I'm kind of...

1:07:08

Yeah, I don't either.

1:07:08

Part of me knows that I should have read it and part of me is glad that I didn't,

1:07:12

so I get

1:07:12

to...

1:07:12

I don't know how it finishes.

1:07:13

I don't know how it ends.

1:07:14

Yeah.

1:07:15

I think I probably read it in high school, but I don't remember it at all.

1:07:19

This is all we got, I think, is this picture of Matt Damon in this outfit.

1:07:21

Oh, he's going to kill it.

1:07:23

There are already complaints that it's not historically accurate.

1:07:26

Why?

1:07:27

Because it's Matt Damon?

1:07:28

No, because that's not what the armor would have looked like, apparently, but

1:07:30

he wouldn't

1:07:31

have been able to see his face, apparently, but...

1:07:33

Oh, really?

1:07:33

Yeah, but not if he makes a movie.

1:07:34

Makes for a shit movie, though.

1:07:35

Yeah, exactly.

1:07:36

Do you know what I mean?

1:07:36

So, like, they're complaining already.

1:07:38

That's the light of thinking.

1:07:39

Yeah, you can't always be historically accurate, I guess.

1:07:43

Yeah, but that's all they got so far.

1:07:45

Cast and...

1:07:46

Tom Holland, Robert Pattinson.

1:07:47

Nice.

1:07:48

Absolutely stacked.

1:07:49

Did you see Matt Damon do Schultz's trailer?

1:07:54

Yes, I did.

1:07:56

Yeah.

1:07:57

That's so fucking good.

1:07:59

Yeah.

1:07:59

I have to say, man, that Schultz's most recent special is one of the best

1:08:04

things.

1:08:05

I got to shout out Andrew Schultz.

1:08:06

Like, that was one of the best things that I've seen in so long.

1:08:09

I thought it was fucking phenomenal.

1:08:10

It made me cry when I saw it live here in Austin.

1:08:12

Twice.

1:08:13

I cried twice.

1:08:13

Wow.

1:08:14

And then I saw it again before I had him on the show the other week.

1:08:17

I was like, in the back of an Uber, and, like, trying to not let the taxi

1:08:21

driver see that I'm welling up.

1:08:23

He's talking about, his wife says something to him where she says, um, the

1:08:27

thing is, honey, you don't have problems.

1:08:30

I was like, oh, it's just so lovely.

1:08:33

And him talking about his experience trying to get pregnant and all of that

1:08:39

stuff caused me to go and get sperm count done.

1:08:42

I'm not trying to get anybody pregnant at the moment.

1:08:44

How old are you?

1:08:45

37.

1:08:46

Do you have a number where you'd like to start breeding?

1:08:49

Breeding.

1:08:52

Within the next few years, I want to start a family soon.

1:08:54

Do you have a gal?

1:08:55

Yeah, at the moment.

1:08:56

Yeah, I do.

1:08:57

How long have you been with this gal?

1:08:58

Six months.

1:08:59

Do you ever go on a trip with her?

1:09:00

Yeah.

1:09:01

Yeah, you've got to go on a long trip with them.

1:09:02

Well, I think six months might be a little bit early just yet.

1:09:06

No, if you want to find out what's up, you've got to go on a trip.

1:09:10

Oh, you mean to work out compatibility?

1:09:11

Yeah, you've got to see how they deal with travel, how they deal with stress,

1:09:16

how they deal with restaurants.

1:09:17

Can they keep up their act when you're with them 24 hours a day for weeks at a

1:09:21

time?

1:09:22

It was when I actually did do a week-long trip in Jamaica and had to go from

1:09:27

Montego Bay to Kingston twice to get my visa renewed.

1:09:30

Now, traveling through Jamaican traffic with somebody will really tell you an

1:09:34

awful lot.

1:09:34

So, yeah, you're talking about like a Navy SEAL hell week of trying to throw

1:09:38

difficult shit in there.

1:09:39

Well, you just need to see what people are like when they're with you all the

1:09:43

time.

1:09:44

Because people put on a show.

1:09:46

They put on a show.

1:09:47

You're a handsome guy.

1:09:48

You're successful.

1:09:49

They want to impress you.

1:09:51

They want to pretend they're something that you would love.

1:09:53

And then maybe they have ideas of morphing you and changing you over time.

1:09:58

You know, like you get a car, I think it's pretty good, but I like to update

1:10:01

the engine.

1:10:01

I do some shit to the tires, maybe change the way the interior looks.

1:10:05

You start changing it.

1:10:06

And then all of a sudden, Chris is wearing different clothes.

1:10:08

What's going on, Chris?

1:10:09

Got to be careful.

1:10:10

I put these glasses on.

1:10:11

That's why it happened.

1:10:11

But, yeah, I decided to go and get a sperm count thing done.

1:10:15

You know what a varicoseal is?

1:10:16

No.

1:10:17

Okay, dude, this is something that I think every single guy needs to know about.

1:10:22

So, it's basically when you go through puberty, the way that the veins sort of

1:10:27

form that blow heat off from your balls,

1:10:30

they can form in a way where they just don't get rid of the heat that

1:10:33

efficiently.

1:10:34

How they don't cool your balls good.

1:10:35

Not enough.

1:10:36

And it's in 15% of men, so it's super, super common.

1:10:39

But 50% of men that go to urologists have got this.

1:10:42

And I go in and I've had these balls my entire life.

1:10:47

I've had these balls.

1:10:48

Thank you.

1:10:49

They're not transplants.

1:10:50

I've had these balls since puberty.

1:10:53

And I found out at the age of 36, oh, you've got a medium varicoseal.

1:10:57

So, the mad thing about this is, you'll know this, if you take testosterone, it

1:11:02

plummets your sperm count.

1:11:03

So, typically, testosterone and sperm kind of work against each other in that

1:11:07

kind of a direction.

1:11:08

This is the one thing where if you get it fixed, both go up.

1:11:13

So, the mean change in testosterone is 180 points.

1:11:17

How do they fix it?

1:11:17

They just – it's surgery.

1:11:20

It's a small surgery where they do an incision in your groin and they just fix

1:11:24

the vasculature.

1:11:25

Balls and surgery are two things that I don't like together.

1:11:29

I like both of them.

1:11:30

I don't think they should be –

1:11:31

Never the twain she'll meet.

1:11:33

Yeah.

1:11:34

Ball surgery is scary.

1:11:35

Do you know that if you get your – you can get a dick transplant if, like,

1:11:39

you lose your dick,

1:11:40

but you cannot get ball transplants.

1:11:41

You know why?

1:11:43

No.

1:11:43

Because you will carry the DNA of the original person.

1:11:47

So, say if I die and you get my balls, you will have my DNA.

1:11:51

You will have my kids.

1:11:53

So, why can't I have your balls?

1:11:54

Well, you could if I gave you permission, maybe.

1:11:56

But it's unethical.

1:11:57

Why don't we swap one ball each?

1:11:58

It's like tossing a coin.

1:12:01

See whose kids make it.

1:12:02

Oh, it was Lefty that day.

1:12:03

Lefty.

1:12:04

Lefty was the one that came out that day.

1:12:05

God damn it, all my kids are Chris's.

1:12:06

What the fuck?

1:12:07

You could come out speaking British.

1:12:08

That would be funny if we both – like, if you had an elective surgery to swap

1:12:12

balls with a good buddy.

1:12:13

Like, I love you so much, I want to swap a ball with you.

1:12:15

Yep.

1:12:16

And we both swap –

1:12:17

We just don't know which one it's going to be today.

1:12:18

You never know.

1:12:18

It's like – because I had a gay couple that were friends that lived down the

1:12:22

street from me,

1:12:23

and they had a kid with a surrogate, and they shot their jizz into a cup and

1:12:27

mixed it up.

1:12:28

So, they didn't know who's going to be the one who has the kid.

1:12:31

Oh, wow.

1:12:32

Yeah.

1:12:32

Two men, one cup.

1:12:34

They had to do it twice, too, because the first time, the lady kept the kid.

1:12:37

They paid her.

1:12:39

They did the whole thing.

1:12:40

At the end of it, she decided she wanted to keep the baby.

1:12:42

Dude, the ethics of surrogacy are really interesting.

1:12:44

It's weird.

1:12:45

It's a weird thing.

1:12:46

You're hiring someone to have your baby for you, and then wealthy people are

1:12:51

doing it so they don't get their cooch stretched out.

1:12:53

That was the Kardashian approach.

1:12:55

Allegedly, that's why she did it.

1:12:57

Well, maybe she just didn't want to carry babies anymore.

1:13:00

She had a couple of them the normal way.

1:13:02

But it's like so much of what the child experiences in the womb, it leads to

1:13:08

this, I would imagine, this bonding thing with the woman.

1:13:12

The baby's inside of you.

1:13:14

You remember feeling the baby inside of you.

1:13:16

It grows inside of you.

1:13:17

Then it comes out of you, and you raise it, and it breastfeeds.

1:13:21

It's like this bond is – I understand surrogacy if someone can't get pregnant,

1:13:26

if this is the only way you can have kids.

1:13:28

I'm not saying don't do it, but I'm saying it's fucking strange because this

1:13:33

other person is whatever anxiety they have, fear, their cortisol levels, if

1:13:38

they have domestic abuse in their house.

1:13:41

All that information is being transferred to the child.

1:13:44

Pregnancy doesn't just make a kid.

1:13:47

It also makes a mother.

1:13:48

Yeah.

1:13:49

And it's dangerous.

1:13:51

I'm so – I mean, test you, babies.

1:13:54

What happens if we can just create artificial wombs?

1:13:56

You know, there's something that's weird.

1:13:57

I know that people don't get – they don't choose to be born, but somebody

1:14:02

chooses whether or not these two sets of DNA are going to come together.

1:14:07

If you've just got sperm donor after sperm donor and egg donor after egg donor

1:14:10

and artificial wombs, it gets to the stage where people kind of aren't choosing

1:14:15

who's coming into reality that much anymore.

1:14:18

Well, that is definitely the future.

1:14:20

I mean, look at plummeting sperm counts.

1:14:23

Look at rising miscarriage rates.

1:14:26

Look at the problems that people are having with microplastics and the

1:14:31

disruption of the endocrine system and pesticides and herbicides and all these

1:14:36

different ubiquitous chemicals that are affecting people's sperm counts and

1:14:40

fertility.

1:14:41

It's a real factor.

1:14:42

And it's plummeting.

1:14:44

If you look at the – if you look at, like, human beings from the last 60, 70

1:14:49

years and you look at males in America, where their sperm count used to be and

1:14:54

where it is now, it's rapidly decreasing.

1:14:57

There's a lot of factors, sedentary lifestyle, processed foods, but there's

1:15:02

also environmental factors that seem to be altering the actual way a child

1:15:06

develops in the womb.

1:15:08

And this is Dr. Shanna Swan's work.

1:15:10

Countdown.

1:15:10

Yeah, which is an incredible – just – it's an incredible book, but it's

1:15:16

just an incredible fact that the plastics that we use from microwave foods and

1:15:23

water bottles and all that stuff is literally changing the development of

1:15:27

children.

1:15:28

It's changing the size of their testicles, the size of their penises, the –

1:15:32

Anogenital distance.

1:15:34

Yeah, yeah, the taint shrinks.

1:15:36

It's really crazy stuff, and it's – it replicates what happens in mammals

1:15:40

when they – when they do these studies with rats and hamsters and same things

1:15:44

happen.

1:15:45

A third of all children globally are going to be obese by 2050.

1:15:49

Jesus.

1:15:50

That's the current trajectory.

1:15:52

And one billion people worldwide are obese.

1:15:56

So the number one form of malnutrition globally is obesity, not starvation.

1:16:01

There's twice as many people that are obese than are starving.

1:16:04

That's crazy.

1:16:05

If that's not a comment on problems of abundance as opposed to problems of

1:16:09

scarcity.

1:16:10

Yeah.

1:16:11

It's not even abundance, though.

1:16:12

It's the food is so calorie-rich and filled with shit, you know, that you just

1:16:18

– you get so fat so quick.

1:16:20

Like, if you're eating nothing but junk food and drinking nothing but soda, as

1:16:24

I sit here with a large Diet Coke, which I usually don't drink, but I do

1:16:28

occasionally.

1:16:29

That is – like, a Diet Coke at least doesn't have the calories.

1:16:33

But if you're having a large Coke like that – like, if you have a Coke like

1:16:36

this – what is this, a liter?

1:16:37

This is probably a liter.

1:16:39

750, maybe, or a liter?

1:16:40

Yeah, it's a liter.

1:16:41

So how much sugar is in one liter of Coca-Cola?

1:16:45

Let's find that out.

1:16:46

But there's nothing in that one, right?

1:16:48

Nothing.

1:16:48

Which is why it's a Diet Coke.

1:16:49

Yeah, it's just brain cancer.

1:16:51

Donald Rumsfeld-approved brain cancer.

1:16:56

94.7 grams of sugar.

1:16:58

That is so much sugar.

1:17:00

94.7 grams.

1:17:02

And people polish these things off every day.

1:17:05

Someone's polishing off a two-liter of Mountain Dew listening to this as we

1:17:09

speak.

1:17:09

So that's probably double that.

1:17:11

So that's hundreds, hundreds of grams of sugar.

1:17:15

The big gulps.

1:17:16

The average American is fatter than the average American pig now.

1:17:21

It's true.

1:17:24

It's true.

1:17:24

Average American man, 28% body fat.

1:17:28

Average American woman, 40% body fat.

1:17:30

Average American pig, 15% to 25% body fat.

1:17:33

Oh, my God.

1:17:34

Yep.

1:17:35

I would have thought it would be higher than 28%.

1:17:37

I think we're doing pretty good.

1:17:38

For guys?

1:17:39

Yeah.

1:17:39

Yeah.

1:17:40

Well, I guess it's offset by, like, Brian Johnson and all of the Olympic people

1:17:44

that are just-

1:17:45

Shredded folks.

1:17:45

Super shredded.

1:17:46

Yeah, exactly.

1:17:47

And then there was that other thing about you talking about kids, that some

1:17:50

huge percentage of 18 to 24-year-olds couldn't join the military.

1:17:54

Yeah.

1:17:54

Like, 70% because of mental health or obesity or drug use or something.

1:18:01

And half of them had two or more of these excuses for why you couldn't do it.

1:18:06

And I think if you track over time the amount of military service that people

1:18:10

have had, so much less.

1:18:12

Yeah.

1:18:12

It's so much less.

1:18:13

And I wonder how many of the issues that we're seeing, even women being

1:18:17

attracted to guys, I think that what you want to do as a guy is try and signal,

1:18:22

again, the same as going to the gym.

1:18:24

Reliable, orderly, conscientious.

1:18:26

I can be on time.

1:18:27

I can do hard things.

1:18:27

This is one of the proposed explanations for the baby boom was that a lot of

1:18:32

men that did come back from war were signaling their eligibility, signaling how

1:18:36

reliable they could be.

1:18:38

And it made it easier for women to be attracted in that way.

1:18:41

That makes sense.

1:18:42

I mean, imagine a woman, you're going to get pregnant, and so you're going to

1:18:46

be, you could work for a little while, but towards the end you're not going to

1:18:50

be able to work.

1:18:51

And then after the child, it's going to be very difficult to work.

1:18:53

So you're reliant on this other person that, like, how well do you know this

1:18:58

person?

1:18:59

Did you do that 10-day vacation in Jamaica with that guy?

1:19:01

Did you drive from Montego Bay to Kingston twice in bad traffic?

1:19:05

Do you know what happens when he makes mistakes?

1:19:07

Does he blame other people or does he apologize?

1:19:10

Like, who is he?

1:19:11

You know, because all that shit's going to come up when you get four hours

1:19:15

sleep because the baby's crying.

1:19:16

And then, you know, maybe he doesn't like his job anymore.

1:19:19

He wants to quit.

1:19:20

And you're like, you can't quit, motherfucker.

1:19:22

You have to feed us.

1:19:23

You have to take care of a family now.

1:19:26

You're not going to just quit.

1:19:27

What are you talking about?

1:19:29

You don't like your job?

1:19:30

Show up.

1:19:32

And I can't imagine relying on another person like that.

1:19:36

I mean, this is why women are so picky.

1:19:39

Like, when you see that 80% of the women are attracted to 20% of the men, and

1:19:44

that's what that is.

1:19:46

What did you expect?

1:19:47

What did you expect?

1:19:48

It's hard to have your shit together.

1:19:50

It's hard to be kicking ass in this fucking complicated, bizarre world that we

1:19:55

live in.

1:19:56

It's hard.

1:19:56

So, for a woman, of course, they're going to grab, what about personality?

1:20:01

Yeah, you're a fucking lazy bitch.

1:20:03

That's part of your personality.

1:20:05

Part of the reason why you're not successful at 40 years of age has to be you.

1:20:11

Has to be.

1:20:12

Some of it has to be.

1:20:13

I mean, it could be a fucking avalanche of bad luck, one thing after the other.

1:20:19

But I would like to see that you're making progress towards a better direction.

1:20:23

But if you're stuck in this mindset of, you know, the world fucks me over, it's

1:20:30

like, no one's going to want to be with you.

1:20:33

No one's going to want to have children with you.

1:20:34

No one's going to be willing to rely on you to support a family.

1:20:38

Like, you have to get your shit together.

1:20:40

And you have to also be attractive, which is just dumb luck.

1:20:44

Like, you have the dumb luck of genetics.

1:20:46

You got a good face.

1:20:47

Ooh.

1:20:48

You know, you got a good body.

1:20:50

A lot of that's genetics, too.

1:20:53

You know, like, what they like and what they don't like is mostly about

1:20:57

breeding.

1:20:58

It's mostly about is this person reliable to breed with.

1:21:03

It's interesting to think about the – you mentioned earlier on about going to

1:21:08

the gym is right wing and liking fast cars is right wing and all the rest of it.

1:21:12

The number of liberal women that are struggling, I think, to find an eligible

1:21:16

partner is going up because they just can't find a guy that will hold the door

1:21:19

open for them,

1:21:20

that will treat them like a lady, that will try and be the protector, provider,

1:21:22

procreator thing.

1:21:23

You go, you're talking about a conservative.

1:21:26

You're talking about somebody who's more traditional in that way.

1:21:30

And I get worried.

1:21:32

You know, I sort of talk a lot about this stuff on the show.

1:21:34

And I get worried about not helping men to improve in this sort of zero-sum

1:21:39

view of empathy that if you give some attention to men and the way that they're

1:21:44

struggling, that it takes it away from some other more deserving group.

1:21:49

So a lot of the time, if someone's falling behind, 50 years ago, Title IX gets

1:21:52

introduced, right, for women.

1:21:54

It's not enough women in higher education.

1:21:55

It's not enough women expediting them through socioeconomic status.

1:21:59

50 years later, they've blown the fucking roof off the glass ceiling.

1:22:04

It doesn't exist.

1:22:04

Two women for every one man completing a four-year U.S. college degree by 2030.

1:22:09

Women earn way more than men do in their 20s.

1:22:12

Way more.

1:22:14

And now, how are you – it's going to be difficult for you to find an eligible

1:22:18

partner as you begin to climb up your own socioeconomic ladder as you get

1:22:21

higher and higher up.

1:22:23

You look across, and there are fewer and fewer men over there.

1:22:26

And what you think is, okay, well, typically, if a group is falling behind in

1:22:30

society, we don't tell them to pick themselves up by their bootstraps.

1:22:35

We spend billions of money in taxpayer-funded charities and think tanks to try

1:22:39

and work out what's going on and to try and bring them along for the ride.

1:22:43

That's not happening with men because vestigially, for so long, men had it so

1:22:49

good.

1:22:49

And now it's – I don't know.

1:22:51

It feels like twisting the knife in some sort of karmic retribution in a way.

1:22:56

Like this is penance that you're paying.

1:23:00

But a lot of guys – you can look at the number of CEOs and, sure, guys that

1:23:03

outperform on the top end, yep.

1:23:05

But that's not necessarily due to privilege.

1:23:08

It's because putting yourself in that position to do what you need to do to get

1:23:11

yourself to the position of being a founder, being a CEO, running a successful

1:23:15

company is so fucking insane that most women would just choose to not go and do

1:23:18

that.

1:23:19

You're talking about outliers.

1:23:20

Evolutionary psychology says that men are nature's playthings, that there's

1:23:24

more variability.

1:23:26

There's more male geniuses, but there's also more male retards.

1:23:29

And it's all well and good, pointing to the number of CEOs and Jeff Bezos and

1:23:32

Elon Musk and all the rest of it.

1:23:34

That doesn't help the guy who is really struggling and has had that run of bad

1:23:39

luck and has been really struggling trying to work on himself.

1:23:43

And, yeah, if women have a problem, a lot of the time we say, what can we do to

1:23:47

fix society?

1:23:48

Any other group.

1:23:49

But if men are struggling, we say, what is it that men are doing where they can't

1:23:52

fix themselves?

1:23:54

And in some ways, that's inspiring.

1:23:56

Like, guys want that sense of, like, I can fucking do this.

1:23:58

I can do this.

1:23:59

But it denies that there's structural problems.

1:24:01

I think the education system for young boys is really, really tough.

1:24:05

Getting them to sit in a classroom still for six hours a day, it seems like

1:24:09

females are just better at doing that.

1:24:11

Young girls are more effective at a sort of brain-based economy, highlighting

1:24:16

and planning ahead of the homework that they've got to do and the assignments

1:24:20

and stuff like that.

1:24:21

And you just roll that forward.

1:24:23

Two women for every one man completing a four-year U.S. college degree.

1:24:26

And I'm not saying, oh, let's rip women out of the classroom and out of the

1:24:29

boardroom and put them back into the kitchen.

1:24:31

Like, obviously not.

1:24:32

Obviously, that's not what either of us are saying.

1:24:34

What do you think is the cause of it?

1:24:36

Like, what do you think is the reason why more men aren't succeeding and

1:24:40

getting college degrees and more men aren't going out and making as much money

1:24:45

in their 20s?

1:24:46

I think that the current environment does not necessarily lend itself to the

1:24:51

disposition that men have got.

1:24:53

So they're less conscientious than women from a personality standpoint on

1:24:57

average.

1:24:58

That means that it's really difficult comparatively on average for you to be

1:25:02

able to remind yourself that you need to do the sort of homework.

1:25:05

Men are more predisposed to addiction.

1:25:07

They're more predisposed to using recreational drugs.

1:25:09

They're more predisposed to being in jail, to all of the sort of gang stuff

1:25:13

that people get drawn into.

1:25:15

It's just more likely for guys.

1:25:16

There are more routes that men can be pulled away in that sort of a manner.

1:25:21

And on top of it, I don't think that there is a particularly inspiring vision

1:25:27

for what men is.

1:25:28

But you said earlier on about fitness right wing, fast cars right wing.

1:25:32

There was this thread on Reddit, I think, in a left-leaning forum that said,

1:25:37

people of the left, can you give me a good example of who you think a positive

1:25:41

male role model would be?

1:25:43

And the top-voted one was Aragon from Lord of the Rings.

1:25:46

What about Fabio?

1:25:51

You've had to go to a fantasy land in order to be able to find somebody who's

1:25:56

sufficiently pure.

1:25:57

And I think that this is one of the issues that we see on the left, which is

1:26:01

there is no level of purity, or the level of purity you need to be able to get

1:26:06

to is so high.

1:26:07

It doesn't exist.

1:26:08

How many people have gone from left to right?

1:26:11

I left the left type thing.

1:26:13

Quite a few.

1:26:14

How many people have gone from right to left?

1:26:16

Very few.

1:26:17

Why?

1:26:18

Because if you have got a slightly fettered past, if you maybe said things in

1:26:22

the past that didn't agree with where we are at now, the right will welcome you

1:26:26

with open arms.

1:26:27

But the left won't.

1:26:29

Why do you think that is?

1:26:31

I think that there is a level of puritanism on the left where they are unprepared

1:26:38

to accept people who have had positions that they don't agree with.

1:26:44

There seems to be this odd purity spiral where they're constantly trying to

1:26:49

point out people who are no longer agreeing with the ideology du jour of the

1:26:53

modern world.

1:26:54

What do you think?

1:26:55

Why do you think it is?

1:26:55

I think that's probably a factor.

1:26:57

I also think that corporate America, the whole structure of it with human

1:27:03

resources and people working together, it's just like it's not necessarily what

1:27:09

men want.

1:27:10

What men want, if you want men to work in the best environment possible for men,

1:27:15

they would work with mostly men.

1:27:17

And they would probably be able to speak and communicate in a way that they did

1:27:24

on Mad Men.

1:27:25

You know, they'd act like men.

1:27:27

Like men like to act like men.

1:27:30

Most men that are involved in corporate life act like some strange character

1:27:36

that is what a man is supposed to be.

1:27:40

Especially if you're supposed to espouse all the latest social justice, you

1:27:45

know, whatever the mantra is that you have to repeat.

1:27:48

If you have to rigidly adhere to an ideology in order to fit in with your

1:27:53

corporate environment, you're going to do that.

1:27:57

And you're going to be trapped in that.

1:27:58

And you're going to just desperately want some escape.

1:28:01

That's why CEOs wind up going to dominatrix and getting fucking ball gagged and

1:28:05

kicked in the balls and shit.

1:28:06

Like, what do you think that is?

1:28:08

It's like they need something, something wild to escape from the mundane

1:28:12

existence that they have in the corporate world.

1:28:16

That's the person that's in control all the time.

1:28:18

So privately, I need to be out of control.

1:28:19

It's just not compatible for most men.

1:28:22

Like that type of environment, a work office environment, it's not compatible.

1:28:29

Nobody wants to do that.

1:28:31

What you want is the rewards of that.

1:28:33

You want the money.

1:28:35

You know, you want success.

1:28:36

You want status.

1:28:37

You want all those things.

1:28:38

You want the corner office.

1:28:39

But what you don't want is to work in that environment.

1:28:42

If you could choose to make the same kind of money doing things that you love

1:28:45

to do, having fun.

1:28:47

Like if all these corporate CEOs could make as much money playing golf, I bet

1:28:50

they would play golf.

1:28:52

I don't think they really want to be doing that.

1:28:54

They're doing that because it's the way to succeed and the way to make money.

1:29:01

And it feels like hell.

1:29:02

It feels like hell.

1:29:03

You're stuck in traffic every day.

1:29:05

You're stuck in the office.

1:29:07

You're not working eight hours a day if you want to really make it.

1:29:09

And this is like why the wage gap between men and women was such an insidious

1:29:15

lie.

1:29:15

Because they were always saying women make 75 cents to every dollar a man makes.

1:29:19

And people repeat that without understanding what it actually means.

1:29:22

It's job choices and hours worked.

1:29:25

Those are the primary factors that lead to men earning more money than women.

1:29:30

It's not a man and a woman are doing the same job and someone rips off the

1:29:34

woman by only giving her 75 cents to what the man works.

1:29:37

If that was the case –

1:29:39

Everybody would employ women.

1:29:41

You would only employ women because women, you'd pay them less.

1:29:43

They do a better job anyway, right, ladies?

1:29:45

So there you go.

1:29:46

It's nonsense.

1:29:48

But that thing that Obama repeated on television, I remember watching him say

1:29:52

that, going, he knows better than this.

1:29:54

This is bullshit.

1:29:54

This is a bullshit statistic.

1:29:56

But it's a heartstring statistic.

1:29:58

It plays –

1:30:00

Good headline.

1:30:00

Yeah.

1:30:00

It plays on your – what you want to believe rather than what's true.

1:30:04

And women have to take time off for maternity leave.

1:30:08

They have to – you know, if they get pregnant, it's going to significantly

1:30:12

impact the amount of hours they're willing to work.

1:30:15

They might not want to do the job anymore.

1:30:16

Once they're raising their children, if their husband is making enough money,

1:30:19

they probably want to quit.

1:30:20

They want to be at home with their kids.

1:30:21

It's a normal thing.

1:30:22

And then a lot of women who are career corporate women are shamed for wanting

1:30:26

to stay home with their children.

1:30:28

Yeah.

1:30:28

Oh, you've been conned by the patriarchy into being a domestic prostitute.

1:30:31

Oh.

1:30:32

So I was talking to – was it Schultz that said this?

1:30:36

I think it was.

1:30:36

He was telling me on the show.

1:30:37

He said that his wife used to work at Google, I think.

1:30:42

She's like a super high-powered, real smart lady.

1:30:44

And she used to bump into her old colleagues in the supermarket when they were

1:30:48

together.

1:30:49

And the classic question that somebody that's in the career trenches asks

1:30:53

somebody else is, oh, so what are you doing now?

1:30:55

You left work.

1:30:56

What are you doing now?

1:30:57

And Schultz said this sentence that his wife replied with would fucking kill

1:31:02

him.

1:31:03

She says, oh, I'm just a mom.

1:31:04

He said it's the just that really hurts.

1:31:08

Yeah.

1:31:08

I'm just a mom.

1:31:09

Well, that's how you feel like you're supposed to admit that you're just a mom.

1:31:15

That fucking hurts, dude, to derogate the people that are literally raising the

1:31:19

next generation.

1:31:20

Yeah.

1:31:20

That's another point, actually, about sort of men falling behind.

1:31:23

I think it seems like young boys are more negatively impacted by fatherless

1:31:28

homes than young girls are.

1:31:30

So any boy that grows up in an intact, a non-intact household is more likely to

1:31:37

end up in jail or prison than they are to complete college in the U.S.

1:31:44

Yeah.

1:31:45

Any non-intact that's adopted, step-parent, single parent, any non-intact home,

1:31:49

they're more likely to end up in jail or in prison than they are to complete

1:31:53

college.

1:31:54

Yeah.

1:31:55

And the same statistic is not true for girls.

1:31:57

And this, again, the zero sumness of the, so what are you saying?

1:32:02

Are you saying that we need to hold girls back?

1:32:04

It's like, no.

1:32:05

You do not need to hold one group back in order to be able to raise another one

1:32:08

up.

1:32:08

And we spent 50 years really pedestalizing and helping take the reins off of

1:32:12

young girls so that socioeconomically they can look after themselves.

1:32:16

They're no longer financial prisoners of their partner, which is a big deal.

1:32:19

You look at the divorce statistics from the past and proclaim it as some, you

1:32:23

know, amazing cultural outgrowth.

1:32:25

And you go, how many women stayed in those relationships because they fucking

1:32:28

couldn't afford to leave?

1:32:30

Right.

1:32:30

They had no other option to do that.

1:32:32

That's scary.

1:32:33

That's scary.

1:32:33

That's why women are so picky.

1:32:35

And they should be.

1:32:37

Yeah.

1:32:37

That's, yeah.

1:32:39

It's also crazy that we put value in our lives on money above everything,

1:32:46

including above doing a good job raising your children.

1:32:50

You put the money that you earn above that and you just get daycare during the

1:32:56

day.

1:32:56

I'll be home at six.

1:32:57

That's fine.

1:32:58

That's plenty of time to be with my kid.

1:33:00

And there's a lot of people that live their life by that.

1:33:03

And their ledger, when they look at the amount of money that they've earned,

1:33:08

that's the reward.

1:33:09

It's the greatest metric in the world, though.

1:33:11

It's the most easy to optimize thing.

1:33:13

Like, I can tell you the size of the house that I live in.

1:33:16

I can tell you how much money I earn.

1:33:17

I can tell you what the car is like that I drive.

1:33:20

But I can't tell you how much peace I have when my head hits the pillow at

1:33:22

night.

1:33:23

Right.

1:33:23

I can't tell you what the quality of the relationship between me and my wife or

1:33:26

me and my kids is.

1:33:27

Yeah.

1:33:27

I can't tell you how much time I got to spend in a hammock last week.

1:33:31

You know, these are the things I think that if you were able to metricate, if

1:33:34

you were able to make it a game, people would be able to pay an awful lot more

1:33:37

attention to it.

1:33:38

Yeah.

1:33:38

But the money is the best game in the world.

1:33:39

It's literally transferred.

1:33:41

Currency.

1:33:41

Exchange.

1:33:42

You can exchange it.

1:33:43

I know what your wealth is compared with that guy in Japan, compared with that

1:33:46

dude in Russia, compared with this person that's Australian.

1:33:48

Whole world.

1:33:50

It's the best game ever created.

1:33:52

And it's the game that so many people use to show their value.

1:33:56

I mean, it's not just the richness of your life, the happiness that you have,

1:34:02

the fulfilled feeling that you have when you do whatever it is that you do.

1:34:07

We feel like you have a sense of purpose.

1:34:09

No, that's not, can't quantify that.

1:34:12

Can't measure it.

1:34:12

Can't put it on a scale.

1:34:13

It's useless.

1:34:14

Meanwhile, it's the most important thing.

1:34:16

The most important thing is satisfaction.

1:34:19

Satisfaction in your life, community, love, friendship, happiness, a sense of

1:34:24

purpose.

1:34:24

Like you enjoy what you do.

1:34:26

That's so important for life.

1:34:28

If you are just doing something you don't want to do just for money, you live

1:34:33

in hell.

1:34:33

And that's most people.

1:34:35

Most people live in this like dull hell.

1:34:39

And they try to have fun while they're at work.

1:34:41

They try to, you know, have people that they talk to at work.

1:34:44

Hopefully you make some good friends at work and you can enjoy your chitter

1:34:47

chatter at the water cooler.

1:34:48

But the reality of that life is just mostly suck.

1:34:52

There's a lot of problems, I think, that people that are driven face that don't

1:34:55

get that much sympathy.

1:34:57

So I had this idea that type A people have type B problems and type B people

1:35:02

have type A problems.

1:35:05

So insecure overachievers need to learn how to chill out.

1:35:09

And lazy people need to learn how to work hard and be more disciplined.

1:35:12

And, you know, most people that listen to shows like yours or mine are probably

1:35:16

some version of type A, like a kind of walking anxiety disorder harness for

1:35:20

productivity.

1:35:25

That's a great definition.

1:35:27

It is.

1:35:27

It's really accurate.

1:35:29

I think the thing that type A people realize is that if you're type A, you get

1:35:34

very little sympathy because a outwardly successful but miserable person is way

1:35:40

less, always appears to be in a much more preferential position than a content

1:35:45

being lazy but on the verge of bankruptcy one.

1:35:47

Right.

1:35:48

So problems of opportunity will always get less sympathy than ones of scarcity.

1:35:54

Like one feels like a choice and the other feels like a limitation.

1:35:59

One is like a bourgeois luxury and the other is like a systemic imposition.

1:36:04

You know, I need someone to teach me how to switch off and relax feels dopaminergic

1:36:10

and opulent and addicted and privileged.

1:36:14

I need someone to teach me how to work harder feels noble and upward aiming and

1:36:19

like you're supporting the downtrodden.

1:36:22

Like every underdog movie in history has a training montage of some guy down on

1:36:27

his luck that gets saved by the right woman or a Japanese dude that teaches him

1:36:32

to wash cars or whatever it is.

1:36:35

And through grit and spit and sawdust, he sorts himself out and he fixes his

1:36:40

life.

1:36:41

No movie explains how to log out of Slack at 6pm or spend a day at the beach

1:36:45

without feeling guilty.

1:36:47

And so, yeah, I think in that sense, type A people may objectively have better

1:36:56

lives, but subjectively, they're ravaged by the sense that they've never done

1:37:01

enough.

1:37:02

They wake up every single morning feeling as if they're already trying to repay

1:37:08

some productivity debt.

1:37:09

And only if they dance through the day completely perfectly, nail every single

1:37:14

task, can they go to bed not feeling like a waste man.

1:37:17

Yeah.

1:37:18

That's where they're at.

1:37:19

Congratulations.

1:37:20

You might be very successful.

1:37:22

You also might be very miserable.

1:37:24

You're most likely going to be miserable.

1:37:26

That's the cold, hard reality of most CEOs.

1:37:32

Most really wealthy people, when you see them pull up in the yacht, they're

1:37:35

fucking living hell.

1:37:36

I think when you look at people that are super outlier performers, you should

1:37:41

probably, your first emotion should not be envy.

1:37:44

It should be pity.

1:37:46

You should think, what's that person, what's it like inside of that person to

1:37:50

drive them to do what they did to themselves, to put them in that position?

1:37:55

What's their background like?

1:37:57

What happened in their childhood?

1:37:58

What do they think about their own sense of self-worth?

1:38:01

Yeah.

1:38:01

Or how much Adderall are they on?

1:38:03

Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

1:38:04

The old performance enhancer.

1:38:05

Yeah, the testosterone for the businessman.

1:38:07

It's not just performance enhancer.

1:38:09

I think it changes the way you approach things.

1:38:12

I think-

1:38:13

Have you ever taken it?

1:38:14

No.

1:38:14

No?

1:38:15

No, I'm scared of speed.

1:38:17

I'm scared of anything that I think I would really like.

1:38:20

Yeah, you haven't done cocaine for the same reason, right?

1:38:23

Yes.

1:38:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:38:24

Well, I was very lucky when I was in high school.

1:38:26

I knew some people that had problems with it.

1:38:28

Big warning sign.

1:38:29

Yeah.

1:38:30

Well, and back then I was very driven.

1:38:32

Like, I didn't even party, really.

1:38:34

I only wanted to get good at martial arts.

1:38:38

I was so driven that I didn't want to do anything that would interfere with

1:38:41

anything else.

1:38:42

What was it that drove you?

1:38:43

Why?

1:38:44

Why this drive for so long?

1:38:46

Ah, there's probably a lot of factors.

1:38:50

I mean, I got into it because I didn't want to get picked on because I didn't

1:38:53

know how to fight and I would be nervous around bullies.

1:38:55

I didn't know what to do.

1:38:56

And I'm like, this, I don't like this feeling at all.

1:38:58

Like, so I will become what everyone's afraid of.

1:39:01

So I'll do that.

1:39:03

And then when I got into it, I realized that, first of all, I realized that I

1:39:07

could get really good at things.

1:39:10

I realized that whatever drive that I had and whatever thing about fighting,

1:39:15

which was so scary to me, why was so appealing to me at the same time.

1:39:19

And I realized that it was like a vision quest.

1:39:22

I was on this quest to try to figure out how to harness my potential.

1:39:27

And what better way than to do something that's very difficult and very scary?

1:39:32

And then if you could get really good at something very difficult and very

1:39:36

scary, you could probably master life.

1:39:38

So you had this gateway drug through martial arts that was a proof to you that

1:39:43

you could self-author?

1:39:45

Yes.

1:39:46

Yeah.

1:39:46

A proof that I wasn't a loser.

1:39:48

For me, it was like that I could be successful.

1:39:50

I've heard you say that before about the loser thing.

1:39:53

Where did that fear come from?

1:39:54

Did you feel powerless as a kid at some point?

1:39:56

Yeah.

1:39:57

I'm sure it comes from broken home, moving around a lot, a lot of factors.

1:40:02

There's a lot of various factors.

1:40:04

But it's also just the existential angst of being a young man.

1:40:08

Like, they're looking for purpose.

1:40:10

Like, who am I?

1:40:10

What do I do?

1:40:11

Am I good at anything?

1:40:12

Like, what gives me value?

1:40:14

And for me, when I started doing martial arts, it was the first time that I was

1:40:20

respected.

1:40:21

And not just respected.

1:40:23

Like, I remember the first time I realized that people would gather around when

1:40:28

I fought.

1:40:29

And I was like, whoa, this is kind of crazy.

1:40:32

Like, they specifically want to watch me fight.

1:40:36

And that was a big deal to me.

1:40:39

It was like that I was so good that people were gathering around.

1:40:42

Really, it was they wanted to see something horrible.

1:40:45

They wanted to see someone get head kicked.

1:40:47

You know, and they knew I did that a lot.

1:40:48

Reliably, you could kick someone in the head.

1:40:51

I was pretty good at it.

1:40:52

And so that changed me.

1:40:56

It changed my self-reflection.

1:40:59

It changed who I was.

1:41:01

I wasn't a loser.

1:41:02

Now I was an extreme winner and really good at it and super disciplined and

1:41:08

driven beyond anything that I thought was possible before I'd done that.

1:41:14

I never had, like, that kind of focus before I got into martial arts.

1:41:19

But martial arts demanded that kind of focus because you can't pretend.

1:41:23

There's no pretending you're good.

1:41:25

You have to be good.

1:41:26

There's no pretending you're fast.

1:41:28

You have to be fast.

1:41:29

There's no pretending to be technical.

1:41:31

You have to be perfect.

1:41:33

Your technique has to be perfect because you're fighting against other trained

1:41:37

killers.

1:41:38

Like, you're not fighting.

1:41:39

Your weaknesses will be revealed.

1:41:40

You're going to get hurt.

1:41:42

And I saw so many people get hurt.

1:41:44

It doesn't matter about what you tweeted.

1:41:46

It doesn't matter about your beliefs stepping onto the mat.

1:41:48

Your fucking rainbow flag that you have on your t-shirt.

1:41:51

Nobody gives a shit.

1:41:52

So on that, I think that's a very common pattern, especially for young people

1:41:56

who feel a little bit helpless in their life.

1:41:58

Yeah.

1:41:59

I find a vector that makes me feel worthy.

1:42:03

You know, the most common story of high performers, I think, is that I needed

1:42:07

to do something to get the world to recognize me.

1:42:10

One of the problems, I think, as people grow up is that they internalize this

1:42:14

belief that the only way that the world will value me is if I can continue to

1:42:19

perform at this high level.

1:42:21

And I think that there comes – some people can imbibe a type of insecurity in

1:42:26

that if I stop doing these things, if I stop being as impressive to the world,

1:42:32

it's going to deny me its love.

1:42:35

That it is – I'm going to be unwanted, unworthy.

1:42:40

And I think that this – talking about the high performer thing, talking about

1:42:43

the pity of the CEO.

1:42:44

Go, how much are you running towards something that you want and how much are

1:42:48

you running away from something that you fear, that there's not enoughness?

1:42:52

Right, right, right.

1:42:54

And the way I looked at it and the way I was taught was that martial arts are a

1:42:58

vehicle for developing your human potential.

1:43:01

And that through the incredible struggle of training and competing, you will

1:43:06

learn more about your ability to excel at anything.

1:43:10

You know, this is the Miyamoto Musashi path.

1:43:12

And I think that the problem with anything extreme but also fleeting and

1:43:20

athletic performance is fleeting.

1:43:24

If you're – at the very best, you have a couple of decades at the very best.

1:43:30

If you're really lucky, you have a couple of decades to define you as a

1:43:34

competitor.

1:43:35

But then your body will give out.

1:43:37

Your age will win.

1:43:39

The beating that your body takes from all the training and all the competing,

1:43:43

eventually you're not going to be able to perform at that level anymore and you're

1:43:47

going to fall off.

1:43:49

And you see it with fighters.

1:43:51

It's really hard with professional fighters where their whole identity is

1:43:55

wrapped up in being a champion.

1:43:58

Their whole identity is being the king of the hill.

1:44:00

And then they're no longer the king of the hill.

1:44:02

And sometimes it happens very rapidly.

1:44:04

Sometimes it happens over the course of just one or two fights.

1:44:08

You go from being the pound for pound best in the world to a guy who nobody

1:44:11

thinks is going to win the title again.

1:44:12

Like that.

1:44:14

So six months later, you're in a totally different reality.

1:44:17

You're in a depressed reality.

1:44:19

And then maybe you are physically depressed because maybe you got really hurt

1:44:22

in your last fight.

1:44:23

So you're probably suffering from some brain damage.

1:44:27

So you've got endocrine disruption.

1:44:29

Your pituitary gland is probably fucked.

1:44:31

Your cortisol levels are through the roof.

1:44:34

Your hormone levels are all fucked up.

1:44:36

You might have a hard time losing weight.

1:44:37

You know, you're tired and depressed because your levels are all fucked up and

1:44:42

your hormones because you basically got your brains beat in six months ago.

1:44:46

Your capacity to fix the very problem has been taken away from you.

1:44:49

Yeah.

1:44:49

And you see it sometimes with one fight.

1:44:52

You know, with a fighter, you see like Tony Ferguson is like my favorite

1:44:56

example, who was the boogeyman, the lightweight division of the UFC for years.

1:45:02

For years, he was the guy who was like this unstoppable force that had bottomless

1:45:07

cardio, never stopped coming after you and was just hell bent on destruction

1:45:12

and beat the fuck out of everybody.

1:45:15

Beat the fuck out of everybody for years until he fought Justin Gaethje.

1:45:20

And Justin Gaethje beat him so bad, he was never the same again.

1:45:24

He was never the same guy again.

1:45:26

He went from being a favorite in the Justin Gaethje fight, I think he was a

1:45:29

slight favorite going into that fight, to after the fight was over, he got

1:45:34

stopped in the later rounds and never, never recovered.

1:45:38

You think that was a physical thing or a mental thing?

1:45:41

Both.

1:45:41

More physical than mental.

1:45:45

Because I think Tony's mental, his fortitude is unstoppable.

1:45:50

He's just got this mindset, but I don't think his body responded the way he

1:45:53

looked different.

1:45:54

I saw it on a stair machine with David Goggins, and Goggins is screaming at him

1:45:57

to keep going.

1:45:58

He gets off, throws up in a bag and gets back on the stair machine.

1:46:00

No, he's an animal.

1:46:01

His mind is unstoppable.

1:46:03

But at a certain point in time, particularly when you're being tested, right?

1:46:07

So you're doing the USADA protocol at the time, and now it's a drug-free sport.

1:46:13

So there's no peptides, there's nothing that can aid you in recovery.

1:46:17

There's, you know, you can't supplement your hormones, you can't recharge your

1:46:22

hormone development.

1:46:24

You can't, there's so many things that you can't do because they are, in fact,

1:46:28

performance enhancers that would help you recover.

1:46:31

You know, if a guy like Tony Ferguson, after that fight, got on hormone

1:46:34

replacement, got on testosterone, got his levels up pretty high, got to a point

1:46:39

where he could train as hard, he probably wouldn't have had the slide that he

1:46:42

had.

1:46:42

I think part of the slide is that everybody has to be natural.

1:46:46

And when you're natural and you get beat up a few times, you're not the same

1:46:51

person anymore.

1:46:53

And I've seen it many, many times.

1:46:55

One bad beating and the guy's done.

1:46:58

It's a big thing in boxing.

1:47:00

In boxing, everybody points to, uh, Meldrick Taylor is one of the best examples.

1:47:05

Fought Julio Cesar Chavez.

1:47:06

Chavez broke him down in the fight and then stopped him with like a couple

1:47:10

seconds to go in the last round.

1:47:13

Dropped him and the referee called the fight with a couple seconds to go in the

1:47:16

last round.

1:47:17

And Meldrick Taylor was never the same again.

1:47:19

And he did interviews after the fight and the interviews after the fight, like

1:47:24

a couple of years later, pronounced slurring in his words.

1:47:27

Um, a very clear deterioration of his reflexes and his speed, very clear

1:47:32

deterioration in his ability to take a punch and even avoid punches.

1:47:36

His reflexes were off.

1:47:38

Have you ever felt any TBI stuff from your heritage of doing striking?

1:47:42

No, not really.

1:47:43

I'm sure it made me impulsive.

1:47:44

I'm sure.

1:47:45

I probably got the right amount of brain damage to succeed in life.

1:47:48

I think so.

1:47:49

Because it made me, uh, not, I'm not very risk averse.

1:47:53

I like risks.

1:47:54

I enjoy them.

1:47:56

I get a thrill out of, uh, taking chances.

1:47:58

I'm not afraid to fail.

1:48:01

I don't mind because I know that failure produces some of the best results.

1:48:05

Every time I've ever failed at anything, I've always, the humiliation and the

1:48:09

pain of it has always forced me to work so much harder.

1:48:12

Failure in comedy is a gigantic blessing.

1:48:14

If you have one good bombing, ooh, it sucks, like sucking a thousand dicks in

1:48:18

front of your mother.

1:48:19

But when it's over, you realize that that can happen.

1:48:23

You fucking tighten up your battleship.

1:48:25

Some of the biggest, like, growth leaps that I've seen in comics and, and even

1:48:30

in fighters is a humiliating loss.

1:48:32

Yeah.

1:48:33

There's a special category of lesson that I've been thinking about.

1:48:37

It's one that you can only learn by sort of having gone through it.

1:48:40

And I think that bombing on stage or having a poor performance, I think that

1:48:43

that's one of them.

1:48:44

So I think most of them you only learn by going through them.

1:48:47

You learn something from watching other people's mistakes, which is why I've

1:48:51

never done cocaine.

1:48:53

But maybe if I did do cocaine, I would have been sober a long time ago and I

1:48:57

would have had a much better understanding of the abyss.

1:49:00

Cocaine is a performance enhancer.

1:49:02

Yeah, it's strange, you know, no matter sort of how arduous or costly or effortful

1:49:06

it's going to be for us to find out these things for ourselves.

1:49:10

For some reason, we insist on disregarding the mountains of warnings that we

1:49:15

have from our elders, historical catastrophes and public scandals and film and

1:49:23

TV.

1:49:24

And we think some version of, yeah, that might be true for them, but not for me.

1:49:29

It's the like, watch me do this, mom mentality.

1:49:32

And yeah, we decide to learn the hard lessons the hard way over and over again.

1:49:38

And unfortunately, it always seems to be the big things.

1:49:40

You know, it's never about how to charmingly introduce yourself at a cocktail

1:49:44

party or put up a level set of shelves.

1:49:46

It's never that.

1:49:47

It's always, we spend most of our lives learning firsthand the warnings that

1:49:52

previous generations gave us over and over again.

1:49:55

And then one day you're like, I'm going to throw all my money in crypto.

1:49:58

And then you will know about that.

1:50:02

But that's one of them.

1:50:02

One of them is money won't make you happy.

1:50:04

Yeah.

1:50:05

Fame isn't going to fix your self-worth.

1:50:07

You don't love that pretty girl.

1:50:09

She's just hot and difficult to get.

1:50:11

Yeah.

1:50:11

Yep.

1:50:12

You will regret working too much.

1:50:14

Worrying isn't aiding your performance.

1:50:17

Nothing is as important as you think it is when you're thinking about it.

1:50:21

Like over and over again, you should see your parents more.

1:50:24

All your worries are a waste of time.

1:50:26

Like these, it's perfectly okay to cut toxic people out of your life.

1:50:30

Like these are so trite.

1:50:33

They're such basic bitch insights because everybody has heard them before.

1:50:38

But if they're so basic, why does everyone who ends up arriving at them talk

1:50:44

about them as if they've just had religious revelation?

1:50:47

You know what I mean?

1:50:48

Yes.

1:50:48

Like they have this fervor to them about why it is so important for you to

1:50:54

listen that we couldn't have seen this coming.

1:50:58

How could we have seen this coming?

1:50:59

It's like it is in every single fable and story from the rest of time.

1:51:05

And I think that one of the reasons this happens is if you don't have a thing,

1:51:09

looking at somebody who has that thing, they have the solution to your problem.

1:51:15

If you don't have money, you believe that by having money, all of your problems

1:51:19

would be fixed.

1:51:20

If you don't have fame, you believe that fame is the thing that's going to get.

1:51:23

If you don't have the goal, you think that getting the goal is going to do

1:51:25

those things.

1:51:26

And it is only by getting there and looking back and going, the issue that I

1:51:31

thought would be fixed by getting the thing wasn't fixed.

1:51:36

Fuck, I need to look deeper.

1:51:38

So not only do we refuse to sort of learn the lessons, if you talk about this

1:51:42

on the internet, if you have a rich person on who says, you know what, man, I

1:51:46

earned a couple of billion dollars and I'm still pretty miserable.

1:51:50

You bring some actress on, she says, you know, all of the fame and stuff like

1:51:54

that, it really didn't fix my self-worth.

1:51:56

The internet hates that.

1:51:58

Yeah.

1:51:59

It's a very contentious point to bring up.

1:52:04

And I think that we believe our particular mental makeup would allow us to

1:52:08

dance through this minefield, right?

1:52:11

No, no, no.

1:52:12

My unique inner landscape would be solved by this problem.

1:52:16

Especially men.

1:52:17

Watch me dance through this minefield, avoid all of the tripwires, do a couple

1:52:21

of pirouettes, and I won't kick any of them.

1:52:24

Yeah.

1:52:24

And then you kick one.

1:52:27

And you realize, oh, fuck, this worry of mine was so much more deeply rooted

1:52:31

than the thing that's from outside.

1:52:34

But I genuinely believe that you kind of need to learn it yourself.

1:52:38

I don't think you can.

1:52:39

I've got Naval on the show on Sunday.

1:52:41

He's great.

1:52:41

He's fucking phenomenal.

1:52:43

I think that, by the way, the one that you did with him in 2019 is the best

1:52:46

podcast episode of all time.

1:52:48

Really?

1:52:48

That two hours.

1:52:49

Yeah, it's just one I've gone back.

1:52:50

Maybe it's just like personally meaningful to me, but I must have listened to

1:52:53

that, I think, more than any other CF.

1:52:55

Very wise.

1:52:55

He's a very wise person.

1:52:57

Although he did tell me that if he could invest more money in Clubhouse, he

1:53:01

would have.

1:53:02

And I was, I was, we were talking on the phone.

1:53:05

I was like, dude, I think this is just bad podcasting.

1:53:08

I don't think, I don't think there's, but Clubhouse took off during the

1:53:12

pandemic because people found themselves at home.

1:53:15

And, you know, it's kind of cool to be able to hop on to a call with a bunch of

1:53:19

other people.

1:53:20

And you're basically sharing ideas of people you've never met before and

1:53:24

intellectually sparring.

1:53:25

And people loved it.

1:53:26

But I was like, bro.

1:53:28

When the world reopens.

1:53:29

I did it with Tim Dillon.

1:53:30

We did an episode once.

1:53:31

And he was like, yeah, it goes out there.

1:53:33

And then, you know, no one ever has.

1:53:35

I go, bullshit.

1:53:35

People are recording this right now.

1:53:37

I go, it's going to be online.

1:53:38

And he was online immediately.

1:53:40

Immediately.

1:53:40

I go, this is nonsense.

1:53:42

It's like the mothership, making people put their phones in the bag, but you

1:53:45

can reopen the bag.

1:53:46

It's like that.

1:53:48

If you could reopen the bag.

1:53:49

Yeah.

1:53:49

Yeah.

1:53:49

But you can reopen the bag.

1:53:50

It's like, oh, I'm allowed to do this and just take it.

1:53:52

It's like, wait, wait, everything's not.

1:53:54

Yeah.

1:53:54

It's a real interesting one.

1:53:56

But he's got this quote where he says, it's far easier to achieve our material

1:54:00

desires than it is to renounce them.

1:54:02

Oh.

1:54:03

But it's much easier for you to drive a beat up Chevy truck if your last car

1:54:06

was a Ferrari.

1:54:07

Sure.

1:54:08

Yeah.

1:54:08

Because you've closed that loop, that what if.

1:54:10

I wonder if it is the money.

1:54:12

I wonder if it is the fame.

1:54:13

I wonder if it is the.

1:54:14

But it depends on the circles you're keeping, too.

1:54:15

Because if you're keeping circles that are valuing those items that show, like,

1:54:21

you've achieved milestones, you know, there's a bunch of people that they, you

1:54:26

know, you don't have a Maybach?

1:54:28

Oh.

1:54:29

You don't have a this?

1:54:30

Keeping up with the Joneses is a hell of a fucking drink.

1:54:32

Oh, your house is not in the best neighborhood.

1:54:35

I was thinking about why I'm attracted to some of my friends, like, why I like

1:54:40

to spend time with some over others.

1:54:43

And I sort of realized this interesting dynamic that I hadn't really heard get

1:54:48

talked about much, which is we think that we want to be charismatic.

1:54:53

Like, we think we want to step into a room.

1:54:55

Our stories are electric.

1:54:57

And our energy, the aura, everyone's super impressed by us.

1:55:00

I didn't actually notice that that was the sort of people that I was choosing

1:55:04

to hang around with.

1:55:05

There's this story about Jenny Jerome, who was Winston Churchill's mother.

1:55:08

And she gets to dine with William Gladstone and Benjamin Disraeli, the prime

1:55:13

minister and the opponent, one night after the other.

1:55:18

And she says, after I left the dinner with Gladstone, I left feeling like he

1:55:21

was the smartest person in England.

1:55:23

And after I left the dinner with Disraeli, I felt like I was the smartest woman

1:55:27

in England.

1:55:28

And I think this really helps to explain why we gravitate towards certain

1:55:35

people.

1:55:37

Some people feel interesting.

1:55:38

And around some people, we feel interesting.

1:55:42

Yeah.

1:55:43

And that's my favorite sort of person.

1:55:45

I think charisma, being charismatic, being energizing, it's the sort of thing

1:55:49

lots of people are seduced by.

1:55:51

They love the sound of it.

1:55:52

But it's kind of like developing real charisma.

1:55:55

Like Matthew McConaughey has to sit opposite this guy and he's fucking oozing

1:55:58

charisma.

1:56:00

But it's way easier to be interested than it is to be interesting.

1:56:03

And it gets you probably 80%, 90% of the way there just by caring and asking

1:56:08

questions.

1:56:09

Yeah.

1:56:09

Thinking, huh, I want to know what you think about this.

1:56:12

Right.

1:56:12

That's cool, Joe.

1:56:13

Tell me more about that.

1:56:14

And why do you think that you're built that way?

1:56:16

Right.

1:56:16

And it helps.

1:56:17

I mean, people just love to talk about themselves.

1:56:19

And the other thing is, you know everything that you know.

1:56:21

You know barely anything that the other person knows.

1:56:24

Right.

1:56:24

And I mean, this is why our job is largely the most selfish one that we could

1:56:27

do.

1:56:28

Hey, smart person, come on here and tell me about your entire life's work.

1:56:32

Tell the least educated person in the room about what it is that you've spent

1:56:36

your time doing.

1:56:37

Yeah.

1:56:37

And it's also, it's very beneficial for the people that are listening, which is

1:56:43

another service that it provides.

1:56:45

Like you get to be you.

1:56:46

Like the person listening to your podcast gets to be you as you interview these

1:56:51

spectacular people.

1:56:53

So they get to like, oh, why did you do that?

1:56:58

And then you say, why did you do that?

1:56:59

And I'm like, yeah, good question.

1:57:01

Good question.

1:57:02

You know what it feels like?

1:57:03

It feels like watching a sports game sometimes.

1:57:05

I think the best conversations, whether they're around a table or a podcast or

1:57:09

whatever, it feels like watching a sports match.

1:57:11

And the two teams are kind of working together to get the ball in the goal.

1:57:14

And you get all excited and you're like, oh, he's going to do this.

1:57:17

Oh, the head kick.

1:57:17

Whoa, that's what I wanted.

1:57:19

Yeah.

1:57:19

And yeah, if you're ever listening to something, I'm sure that this maybe

1:57:22

happened to people listening to this episode.

1:57:24

They go, fuck, I hope he asks him about the thing.

1:57:26

Hey, ask him about the thing.

1:57:27

Yeah.

1:57:28

And yeah, there's this sense that there's a third participant, not just Jamie,

1:57:31

in the room.

1:57:32

Where's Carl?

1:57:32

I just realized there should be a fourth participant.

1:57:37

Carl snores a lot.

1:57:39

He's chilling.

1:57:40

Okay, he's a sound risk.

1:57:41

Sometimes he gets a little loud.

1:57:43

And while the podcast is going on, you hear, you're like, nudge him.

1:57:49

Roll him over.

1:57:51

Make him shut up.

1:57:52

Yeah, I am.

1:57:53

It depends on who I'm talking to.

1:57:54

Like, if I'm talking to, like, a theoretical physicist and there's, like, some

1:57:58

very difficult thing to grasp and you hear Carl snoring, it becomes a little

1:58:02

bit of an issue.

1:58:03

If it's coming through the headphones.

1:58:04

He's loud.

1:58:05

Sleep train.

1:58:06

Sleep train that dog.

1:58:07

No, you can't.

1:58:08

He's gotten older.

1:58:08

He can handle it.

1:58:09

And he's CPAP.

1:58:11

Doggy CPAP?

1:58:12

Fuck.

1:58:13

Have you seen what their faces look like?

1:58:15

The skulls?

1:58:16

French bulldog skulls?

1:58:18

No.

1:58:18

Oh, it's horrible what they've done to them.

1:58:20

Through selective breeding.

1:58:21

Yeah.

1:58:22

Just slowly, slowly.

1:58:22

They just shove their fucking skull.

1:58:25

It's all twisted where their sinuses are, like, non-existent.

1:58:29

Their whole face is just smushed in.

1:58:32

So we can't really complain about the snoring.

1:58:34

Well, I mean, we did it to them.

1:58:37

They used to be wolves.

1:58:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:58:38

They used to be a wolf.

1:58:39

Yeah.

1:58:40

I told you about that man crush that I had last time, that unkillable soldier

1:58:43

guy.

1:58:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:58:45

And it sort of sent me down a rabbit hole.

1:58:47

I fell in love with stories of crazy bastards from history.

1:58:50

So I found this other dude called Eimo Koivonen.

1:58:52

Oh, I've heard of that guy.

1:58:53

The Finnish soldier.

1:58:54

Yeah.

1:58:55

Yeah, so he is out on patrol with a bunch of Finnish soldiers, small group, and

1:59:01

they come upon a Soviet force way bigger than they are.

1:59:08

And the force is at the force is way bigger.

1:59:11

And the force is way bigger.

1:59:11

Eimo is at the front.

1:59:13

He's trailblazing, trying to break free from this group.

1:59:15

But he can't go fast enough.

1:59:16

If they get caught, they're going to be captured or killed or worse.

1:59:19

So he needs to speed up.

1:59:21

He doesn't know how.

1:59:21

He's carrying the entire patrol's supply of Pervitin.

1:59:26

Now, Pervitin was a German miracle drug that was used to keep soldiers awake

1:59:31

during the war.

1:59:32

Meth.

1:59:33

It's otherwise known, yep, as methamphetamine.

1:59:35

And he decided, I mean, you might think, this wasn't just any normal meth,

1:59:41

right?

1:59:41

This was pharmaceutical grade wartime human horsepower, right?

1:59:47

It was the most intense.

1:59:49

So you might think tolerating the dose could be a good idea.

1:59:53

There's a rumor that apparently it had melted in his pocket.

1:59:56

But whatever he did, he took 30 people's worth.

1:59:58

He took 30 soldiers' worth of meth.

2:00:01

The entire packet, just ate the entire packet.

2:00:03

Whoa.

2:00:03

Unsurprisingly, he manages to break away from the pursuing Soviets, and he

2:00:09

leads his group away.

2:00:10

So they chill out on the far side once they're finally free.

2:00:15

And they notice that Amo's behaving a little bit oddly.

2:00:18

And he seems to be a danger to himself and to them.

2:00:20

So they take his ammo out of his rifle, and they take his knife off him.

2:00:24

And they're sort of putting stuff away in the pack.

2:00:26

They turn around, and he's gone.

2:00:28

Like, fuck, where's Amo gone?

2:00:30

He skis for 63 miles on his own, just skis away, doesn't really know what he's

2:00:34

doing.

2:00:35

He's in this sort of fever dream thing, lays down, goes to sleep, wakes up the

2:00:38

next day, no idea where he is.

2:00:41

Doesn't know where his group is, doesn't know where the squadron is, doesn't

2:00:43

know where he is.

2:00:45

Immediately sees a Soviet soldier over the far side, raises his rifle, click,

2:00:49

fuck, they took my ammo.

2:00:50

Hurls the rifle at this Soviet soldier, and he explodes in a cloud of white

2:00:54

dust.

2:00:55

Turns out that it wasn't a Soviet soldier.

2:00:58

It was a tree branch with snow on it, and that he's actually hallucinating.

2:01:01

So he's in a full-on fever dream now.

2:01:04

Imagine this Soviet soldier throws the gun at him, he explodes.

2:01:08

He's like, fuck, okay, I need to find my squadron.

2:01:12

How am I going to get back to them?

2:01:13

So he decides to just try and navigate around for a couple of hours, and he

2:01:16

sees them over the far side.

2:01:18

He sees a fire, and he sees his group over the far side, but way far away.

2:01:21

So he skis for another two hours.

2:01:22

Turns out that it wasn't his squadron, it was more Soviet soldiers.

2:01:26

So he just skis straight through the middle of the camp.

2:01:29

All of these guys immediately chase after him, but there's no chance.

2:01:32

Like, he's the fucking LeBron James of meth, right?

2:01:34

You're not catching this guy.

2:01:39

So he goes straight through again, second night, finds a hut, finds a wooden

2:01:44

cabin in the middle of the snow.

2:01:46

Decides to set a fire, but he doesn't set it in the fireplace.

2:01:51

Sets it in the middle of the wooden hut.

2:01:54

And throughout the night, he sort of shuffles himself further and further away.

2:01:59

For some reason, his back's getting a little bit warm, and he keeps on sort of

2:02:01

shuffling himself further and further away.

2:02:02

He wakes up the next morning on the outside of the hut, and it's completely

2:02:06

burned down.

2:02:07

So he's burned the only bit, the only structure that was going to give him any

2:02:12

safety.

2:02:12

He's managed to burn it to the ground.

2:02:14

And as he wakes up, again, sort of may have noticed that this is a recurring

2:02:18

theme,

2:02:20

a wolverine attacks him, 65-pound wolverine.

2:02:23

Fucking fangs, yellow eyes, attacks him.

2:02:25

So Amo uses his knife, kills this wolverine, fight to the death, kills it.

2:02:30

But then he realizes, I don't have a knife because my soldiers took it from me.

2:02:35

It was his compass, which was the only thing he could use to navigate himself.

2:02:38

He'd smashed his compass to bits.

2:02:39

And then he looks down, and it wasn't a wolverine.

2:02:42

It was a tree log.

2:02:43

So he smashed his compass on a tree log, thinking it was a 65-pound wolverine.

2:02:47

He's still just deep, deep in the hole.

2:02:51

Continues to ski around.

2:02:52

He's trying to find someone, trying to find any way marker that he can.

2:02:56

Now, with no way to navigate, he's got no compass, he's got no weapon.

2:02:59

I mean, the rifle that's got no ammunition in it.

2:03:01

He finds a Soviet forward operating base.

2:03:04

But you'll know this.

2:03:06

A lot of the time, when armies left these behind, they booby-trapped the fuck

2:03:12

out of them.

2:03:13

They booby-trapped everything.

2:03:15

So he walks onto the middle of the forward operating base, immediately gets

2:03:18

exploded by a landmine.

2:03:20

Foot gets blown.

2:03:20

So he's laid there in the snow, kind of waiting to die.

2:03:23

And one day later, he's not dead.

2:03:26

So he's like, well, fuck it.

2:03:27

I might as well try and get into the forward operating base.

2:03:29

Gets up, continues to go forward, opens the door to the forward-

2:03:33

He has no foot?

2:03:34

It's damaged.

2:03:36

It's severely damaged.

2:03:37

Gets toward the front of the operating base, opens the door.

2:03:40

There's another booby trap there that explodes him and the door like 20 yards

2:03:43

backward.

2:03:44

He just lays there in the snow, waiting to die.

2:03:46

He lays there for about five or six days, waiting to die.

2:03:49

And he's melting snow in a little tin can thing, like melting it so that he can

2:03:55

drink a little bit of water.

2:03:56

He's got this door on him.

2:03:57

He thinks, well, someone's going to find me.

2:03:59

It's going to be the Soviets.

2:04:00

They're going to kill me, or I'm just going to die.

2:04:01

So he waits.

2:04:02

Death doesn't come.

2:04:05

Three Finnish soldiers come upon him.

2:04:06

Of all of the different nationalities, of all of the different people, three

2:04:09

Finnish soldiers come upon him.

2:04:11

And he thinks, finally, through all of this time, after being confused, after

2:04:14

getting lost, I'm going to be saved.

2:04:15

They say, it's okay.

2:04:16

We can take you back.

2:04:17

We can save you and take you back.

2:04:18

And the front guy of the three Finns steps on a landmine, blows himself up.

2:04:24

And the other two are like, hey, man, there's kind of a priority list here.

2:04:27

And you're at the bottom, and he's at the top.

2:04:29

So we're going to take him back.

2:04:30

But just hold on for another couple of days.

2:04:32

We'll come back, and we'll save you.

2:04:33

They go away.

2:04:34

And he just thinks, they're not going to find me again.

2:04:36

They're going to forget.

2:04:37

They're not going to be able to come back.

2:04:38

Someone's going to kill me before they do, or I'm going to die, or whatever.

2:04:41

But they do.

2:04:42

They manage to come back.

2:04:43

They manage to get him, and they take him back to the medical bay.

2:04:44

Fourteen days was how long he'd been traveling around.

2:04:49

He'd moved 250 miles in this time.

2:04:53

His resting heart rate was 200 beats per minute.

2:04:57

And he weighed 98 pounds.

2:05:01

He'd survived this entire time on meth,

2:05:07

water that he'd melted down into a tin cup,

2:05:09

a couple of pine nut things that he'd melted to,

2:05:12

and a single Siberian jay that he beat to death

2:05:15

with his ski pole and just ate raw.

2:05:17

And he lived until he was in his 70s,

2:05:19

died in, like, 1989, and just lived a great life.

2:05:22

Jeez.

2:05:23

I fucking love that story, dude.

2:05:26

This meth-fueled Finnish maniac,

2:05:28

just, like, skiing through everything,

2:05:30

setting shit on fire, hallucinating,

2:05:32

getting blown up twice.

2:05:34

Survived it.

2:05:35

Meth's a hell of a drug.

2:05:36

Maybe you should have done it.

2:05:37

Maybe I should try now.

2:05:38

It's amazing what was accomplished on amphetamines.

2:05:42

I mean, Norman Ohler's book, Blitzed.

2:05:46

I loved those episodes that you did with them.

2:05:48

Yeah, incredible.

2:05:48

It's just an incredible story,

2:05:50

that they literally went through Poland in three days,

2:05:55

just methed out of their fucking minds.

2:05:58

And the most meth was given to the people at the very front,

2:06:01

the people that were driving the tanks.

2:06:02

They were the most cranked up.

2:06:04

Because they'll drive the rest of the group forward.

2:06:06

Yeah.

2:06:07

And also, they have to be the most psychotic,

2:06:09

because you're going to be the first people to encounter resistance.

2:06:12

So you need to be the most risk-averse.

2:06:15

Yeah.

2:06:15

Oh, the least risk-averse.

2:06:16

The most maniacal and murderous.

2:06:20

I wonder, you know,

2:06:21

there's kind of a debate around how much of Hitler's behavior was because of

2:06:26

Hitler,

2:06:26

and how much was amplified, worsened by the drugs that he was on.

2:06:30

That Theodore Morrell,

2:06:31

that crazy, kooky doctor that he had,

2:06:33

is injecting him with bull semen.

2:06:34

He's getting fucking cocaine.

2:06:37

Everything.

2:06:38

Yeah.

2:06:38

A lot of it had to do with that.

2:06:40

It had to.

2:06:41

I mean, it had to.

2:06:43

It's a factor.

2:06:44

It's a giant factor.

2:06:45

Just how much of it.

2:06:47

What would have been like,

2:06:48

what would the wars have been like,

2:06:50

were there no meth?

2:06:51

I mean, that's probably the first amphetamine-fueled war.

2:06:54

Right?

2:06:55

Was World War I fueled by amphetamines?

2:06:58

Did they have amphetamines back then?

2:07:01

I mean, I don't know what you do to get people to go over the top to certain

2:07:06

death.

2:07:07

Like, how do you?

2:07:08

I mean, you motivate people by everybody else doing it.

2:07:10

I suppose it's sort of crowd behavior in that way.

2:07:12

Well, they know that meth was given to the kamikaze soldiers,

2:07:15

which makes sense.

2:07:17

I mean, it's a great way to just going to fly that plane right into that boat.

2:07:22

You're like, what?

2:07:22

I'm having a great time.

2:07:23

Sure.

2:07:23

Yeah.

2:07:24

No, I'm going to fly to a fucking island and hide.

2:07:27

During World War I, militaries used cocaine and other drugs

2:07:31

for medicinal purposes and to enhance performance.

2:07:34

So, cocaine.

2:07:35

The British Army sold cocaine-containing pills under the brand name

2:07:41

Forced March.

2:07:42

That is the best branding in the world.

2:07:44

Increased endurance, suppressed appetite.

2:07:46

1960 British Army Council banned the unauthorized sale of psychoactive drudge.

2:07:51

I wonder why they did that.

2:07:53

They didn't want to win?

2:07:54

You don't want to have fun?

2:07:55

What, are you the fucking fun police?

2:07:57

Wow.

2:07:58

That's pretty crazy.

2:07:59

Yeah.

2:08:00

Is it go pills?

2:08:01

Is that what they give to fighter pilots?

2:08:02

Yeah, they give me something.

2:08:04

British Army's pill number nine.

2:08:07

What's that?

2:08:08

Pill number nine was just a strong laxative.

2:08:12

This is AI.

2:08:13

Lies.

2:08:14

What was in there?

2:08:16

Specific medication used by British Army during World War I.

2:08:19

Primary ingredient, pill number nine, was colomel.

2:08:22

Mercurious chloride.

2:08:25

A mercury-based compound.

2:08:27

Used to treat intestinal infections and other ailments.

2:08:30

Oh, okay.

2:08:31

Just massive diarrhea pills.

2:08:33

I don't know how that's a performance enhancer.

2:08:35

Yeah, I don't think it is.

2:08:36

If your stomach, maybe just clear it out.

2:08:38

Feel light on your feet.

2:08:40

I don't know.

2:08:40

It seems like the cocaine would be more effective.

2:08:42

I mean, cocaine will make you go to the bathroom as well.

2:08:45

For accomplishing our goals.

2:08:46

Yeah.

2:08:47

You know, you said before about sort of that self-authoring thing,

2:08:51

like taking control of my own life.

2:08:54

My friend George has got this great question where he says,

2:08:57

you're stuck in a third world prison and you get one phone call to ring

2:09:01

somebody

2:09:02

to get you out.

2:09:03

Who do you ring?

2:09:04

And that idea I love because it helps you to identify

2:09:09

who the highest agency person is in your life.

2:09:11

Who is it that can think on their feet,

2:09:14

that doesn't need permission to go and do anything,

2:09:16

that will overcome obstacles,

2:09:17

that is this sort of, yeah, permissionless reality bender?

2:09:22

Right.

2:09:23

Who would you call?

2:09:23

I don't know, man.

2:09:25

That's a good question.

2:09:26

That's a really good question.

2:09:30

I'd have to really think about it.

2:09:31

Also, I don't know anybody's number.

2:09:32

That's true.

2:09:34

That's a problem.

2:09:35

Can I Instagram DM them?

2:09:36

Is that all right?

2:09:37

Can I log in?

2:09:38

Actually, can you give me my phone?

2:09:39

Because I've got two-factor authentication on.

2:09:40

This is going to be really awkward.

2:09:41

Is that all right?

2:09:42

I need to do that.

2:09:43

Yeah, I mean, I would be tempted to ring Tim Kennedy.

2:09:46

I think he would probably be quite high up on my list.

2:09:49

Yeah, he would help you a lot.

2:09:50

If I had access to my phone.

2:09:51

Yeah, dirty deeds done dirt cheap.

2:09:53

Correct.

2:09:55

Yeah.

2:09:56

I mean, it might be a bit gratuitous.

2:09:58

I get the sense that he would take more pleasure in getting me out

2:10:01

than would be necessary.

2:10:02

You know what I mean?

2:10:03

Yeah, probably.

2:10:04

Yeah.

2:10:05

Yeah, I don't know, man.

2:10:06

That's got to be the worst place to be in the world.

2:10:09

Foreign prison with no way to call somebody.

2:10:12

Poof.

2:10:14

You know, this is the criticism about these illegal aliens

2:10:19

that have been shipped off to, what is it, El Salvador?

2:10:21

Is it El Salvador that they have the super prisons?

2:10:25

Yeah, I think that's, we spoke about this last time.

2:10:28

That was just as they'd been created,

2:10:29

these football stadium-sized monstrosities.

2:10:31

They essentially got all the gang members off the streets

2:10:34

and locked them up and dropped crime radically,

2:10:38

dropped violence radically.

2:10:40

They essentially said, enough of this.

2:10:42

We're just going to go after all these gang members

2:10:44

and lock them all up.

2:10:46

And the criticism about these deportees

2:10:51

that we're sending people over there,

2:10:54

we're sending plane loads of people over there,

2:10:56

like, what if you're in that group

2:10:59

and you're not guilty of anything?

2:11:01

What if you're just a guy who came over here from Mexico

2:11:04

and you're a tattoo artist?

2:11:06

U.S. deports 250 alleged gang members to El Salvador

2:11:10

despite court ruling to halt flights.

2:11:12

Yeah, there's a court ruling to halt the flights.

2:11:13

But here's the thing.

2:11:14

If they are gang members,

2:11:17

if they are Trendyaragua or, you know,

2:11:20

those gang members that took over.

2:11:21

Yeah.

2:11:22

If that's real, then this all makes sense.

2:11:26

But the fear is that there's going to be certain people

2:11:29

that are rounded up in this that are not guilty.

2:11:33

Collateral damage.

2:11:34

Right.

2:11:34

And then these poor people are going to be trapped

2:11:37

in this El Salvador prison

2:11:39

and no one's going to believe them that they're innocent.

2:11:41

It says it all that El Salvador has got a reputation

2:11:44

for being so good at prison and law enforcement

2:11:46

that they're fucking importing people over there.

2:11:50

And it's like, oh, we need to...

2:11:52

You said before, if I've got a bad knee,

2:11:54

I want to go to the guy that looks after the Lakers.

2:11:55

It's like, you're the Lakers PT doc of the rehabilitation world.

2:12:00

It's not even rehabilitation, I suppose.

2:12:01

Just incarceration world.

2:12:02

Yeah, it's just incarceration

2:12:03

and there's probably a financial incentive.

2:12:05

We probably pay them to house these prisoners.

2:12:07

But the question is, are we sure?

2:12:11

Like, how many of these people are being accused

2:12:15

of being gang members

2:12:16

because maybe they tattoo gang members?

2:12:18

You know, maybe they were caught up in a raid

2:12:20

and maybe they are...

2:12:21

Friends of gang members.

2:12:22

Maybe there's an artist who happens to be an illegal

2:12:25

or maybe they're someone who's working on a construction site

2:12:28

and they get rounded up

2:12:29

and they get shipped over there.

2:12:31

That's a legitimate question.

2:12:33

When you're arresting people and prosecuting people

2:12:38

and your goal is to arrest people and prosecute people,

2:12:40

you do your best at that.

2:12:41

And the question is,

2:12:43

how many people get arrested and prosecuted that are innocent?

2:12:46

Well, in the real world,

2:12:48

what we know is quite a few.

2:12:49

I mean, I do a lot of podcasts

2:12:52

with my good friend Josh Dubin

2:12:53

who's spent a considerable amount of his life

2:12:56

helping innocent people get out of jail.

2:12:59

That's his main thing that he does

2:13:03

is work with unjustly prosecuted people.

2:13:06

And you find the levels of corruption to be horrific.

2:13:09

The prosecutors, DAs,

2:13:12

the amount of corrupt judges,

2:13:15

it's shocking.

2:13:16

It's shocking when you lay the facts of these cases out,

2:13:20

like the Ohio Four,

2:13:22

these people that were in jail,

2:13:23

proven that one of them

2:13:25

could not have possibly been there

2:13:27

when the crime was committed

2:13:27

and still was in there for 30 years.

2:13:29

The actual guy who was the informant

2:13:34

came out and said

2:13:35

that he was told to say all these things,

2:13:37

it's all lies,

2:13:38

then was told when they were going to bring it to trial again,

2:13:42

you will be arrested for telling lies now.

2:13:46

you will either be arrested,

2:13:48

you will either be arrested because you're lying now

2:13:52

or you'll be arrested for telling lies previously.

2:13:54

So then he won't...

2:13:56

This is like that thing,

2:13:57

you know,

2:13:57

if she thinks she's not a witch

2:14:00

and if she floats she is.

2:14:01

Right, right, right, right.

2:14:02

Yeah.

2:14:03

Yeah, it's crazy.

2:14:04

It's crazy.

2:14:05

And then there's the game aspect of it.

2:14:07

The game aspect of it is victory, right?

2:14:10

If you're a prosecutor,

2:14:11

your job is to arrest people

2:14:13

and prosecute them and convict them.

2:14:15

That's your job.

2:14:16

That's what your self-worth,

2:14:19

who you are as a prosecutor,

2:14:21

your reputation is based on success.

2:14:23

Yeah, your record.

2:14:24

Yeah.

2:14:25

Your perfect record of this many convictions.

2:14:27

Yeah.

2:14:27

It's the same with cops, unfortunately.

2:14:30

A lot of cops are...

2:14:32

Their whole thing is making arrests.

2:14:34

Making arrests.

2:14:35

It's a shame, isn't it?

2:14:37

You talked about the fire service earlier on.

2:14:40

Three emergency services,

2:14:41

fire, police, and ambulance.

2:14:43

Mm-hmm.

2:14:44

When the fire service turns up anywhere,

2:14:45

I don't think that there's any issues.

2:14:48

People...

2:14:49

I don't know whether...

2:14:50

How often firefighters find themselves

2:14:52

up against a crowd that's unhappy.

2:14:54

Maybe, I guess,

2:14:55

if it was a riot of some kind, perhaps.

2:14:57

But for the most part,

2:14:58

it's a hero that's coming to save the cat

2:15:01

stuck in a tree,

2:15:02

the house that's on fire,

2:15:03

the baby that's upstairs.

2:15:04

Yeah.

2:15:04

Like, hooray.

2:15:05

Well done for you.

2:15:05

Yeah.

2:15:06

A medical service turns up.

2:15:08

Somebody's really badly hurt

2:15:11

or somebody's broken.

2:15:12

EMTs, yeah.

2:15:13

Yeah, some kid at a sports match

2:15:14

has broken their leg.

2:15:15

Thank you so much, please.

2:15:16

Yeah.

2:15:16

Look after them, look after them.

2:15:17

And then the police turn up.

2:15:19

And the reaction could not be more different.

2:15:22

Yeah.

2:15:22

And I don't know.

2:15:24

I understand that there's a particular type of control

2:15:30

that cops have

2:15:32

that sort of firefighters and EMTs...

2:15:35

Firefighters and EMTs are doing stuff

2:15:37

exclusively sort of in service of others,

2:15:39

whereas cops are doing something

2:15:40

that sort of subtracts away.

2:15:42

But it must be tough.

2:15:43

Like, if you're a good cop,

2:15:44

especially now,

2:15:45

especially after the last few years,

2:15:46

it must be hard

2:15:48

because you want to feel proud about your job.

2:15:49

It's unbelievably hard.

2:15:50

It's also very hard to get people

2:15:52

that are good people

2:15:52

to sign up for it now

2:15:53

because they don't want that abuse.

2:15:55

I wonder if that's been reversed

2:15:57

over the last few years.

2:15:58

I don't know.

2:15:59

I mean, I bet it has

2:16:00

in certain jurisdictions

2:16:01

and certain areas

2:16:02

where they've valued cops.

2:16:05

And, you know,

2:16:07

this whole defund the police thing

2:16:08

was just so wild.

2:16:09

It was so crazy to see

2:16:10

that people would think

2:16:12

that that would be a good idea.

2:16:13

And even to espouse it publicly,

2:16:15

to erode public confidence

2:16:17

in law enforcement,

2:16:18

just writ large.

2:16:21

You notice that

2:16:22

that's largely dropped off now?

2:16:23

Yeah.

2:16:24

No one's really talking about defunding?

2:16:25

Well, it didn't work.

2:16:26

It had the opposite effect.

2:16:27

Crime escalated.

2:16:29

And the people that lived

2:16:30

in the communities

2:16:30

wanted the cops back.

2:16:31

In the areas

2:16:33

that were the worst affected as well.

2:16:35

It's a luxury belief.

2:16:36

Yeah.

2:16:37

It's something that's held

2:16:38

by the upper classes

2:16:39

that only impacts the lower classes.

2:16:41

Yeah.

2:16:42

And it's also a thing

2:16:43

that the political establishment

2:16:45

will use as a tool

2:16:47

to align you with them.

2:16:48

You know, people will say it like,

2:16:51

Kamala Harris in 2019

2:16:52

was saying,

2:16:53

I mean, defund the police.

2:16:55

We should defund the police,

2:16:55

which is just crazy to say.

2:16:58

You need to fund them more.

2:16:59

Train them better.

2:17:00

You know,

2:17:01

they need training

2:17:03

the way military groups

2:17:04

need training,

2:17:05

constantly, consistently.

2:17:06

And, you know,

2:17:08

they're encountering

2:17:09

horrific things.

2:17:10

I mean, my friends

2:17:11

who have been cops

2:17:12

and, you know,

2:17:14

and have served overseas,

2:17:15

they'll tell you,

2:17:16

most of them will tell you

2:17:18

that they suffered

2:17:18

more PTSD as cops

2:17:20

than they have.

2:17:21

Even in the military.

2:17:22

Yeah.

2:17:22

Depending upon your service,

2:17:24

depending on what you had to do.

2:17:25

But a lot of them,

2:17:26

it's just like every day

2:17:27

you're seeing

2:17:28

some nightmarish situation.

2:17:29

Horrific violence,

2:17:31

domestic violence,

2:17:32

child abuse,

2:17:34

murdered kids.

2:17:35

You're seeing so much horror.

2:17:38

And then your version of reality

2:17:41

is based on your experiences.

2:17:43

Your experiences

2:17:43

are horrific every day.

2:17:45

Do you think you'd be able

2:17:46

to switch off

2:17:47

if you had a job like that?

2:17:48

You'd be able to partition,

2:17:50

compartmentalize?

2:17:50

I wouldn't even ever guess

2:17:52

that I could pull it off.

2:17:53

I wouldn't even guess.

2:17:55

I don't think anybody

2:17:57

even understands

2:17:58

what that even means

2:17:59

unless you've shown up

2:18:00

and seen some guy's brains

2:18:02

blown out all over the curb

2:18:03

for nothing,

2:18:04

for some stupid argument

2:18:06

about nothing.

2:18:07

You know,

2:18:07

when you've seen

2:18:08

some woman get shot

2:18:10

in front of her kid

2:18:11

by the husband,

2:18:12

you have no idea.

2:18:15

No one has any idea.

2:18:16

You don't know

2:18:18

unless you experience it.

2:18:19

And then you have to go home

2:18:19

to your own children,

2:18:20

go home to your own wife,

2:18:22

and you're just,

2:18:22

your brain is on fire.

2:18:25

You know,

2:18:26

your soul is just in agony.

2:18:28

We were watching a video

2:18:31

the other day

2:18:31

of this guy

2:18:32

who had to shoot this guy,

2:18:33

this cop.

2:18:34

This guy was,

2:18:35

something was wrong.

2:18:37

He was clearly

2:18:38

mentally unstable,

2:18:39

was yelling,

2:18:39

was, you know,

2:18:41

telling everybody

2:18:42

what he was going to do.

2:18:43

They tased him.

2:18:44

That didn't work.

2:18:44

Then he's charging

2:18:45

at this cop

2:18:47

and the cop shoots him

2:18:48

and then the cop's sobbing

2:18:49

and shaking

2:18:51

and his partner's

2:18:52

telling him to breathe,

2:18:53

how to breathe,

2:18:54

and he's just

2:18:54

probably the first person

2:18:56

he ever had to kill.

2:18:57

It's horrible.

2:19:00

It's horrible.

2:19:01

And that's,

2:19:02

that's,

2:19:03

he succeeded.

2:19:04

He's,

2:19:05

he's stopped a threat.

2:19:07

And he,

2:19:08

you know,

2:19:08

it was justified.

2:19:10

This person

2:19:11

was trying to kill him.

2:19:11

What about

2:19:13

pulling people over

2:19:14

and the windows

2:19:15

are all tinted

2:19:16

and they won't roll down

2:19:17

the windows.

2:19:17

You're standing there

2:19:18

vulnerable.

2:19:18

It could be a shotgun

2:19:19

inches away from your face

2:19:21

and you have no idea.

2:19:21

And they've all seen

2:19:23

all these videos

2:19:24

where people get gunned down.

2:19:25

He pulled people over,

2:19:26

all of a sudden

2:19:27

the back window

2:19:27

explodes with machine gun fire.

2:19:30

I mean,

2:19:31

they live with that

2:19:33

every day.

2:19:33

They live with that

2:19:34

fear every day

2:19:35

and then they have to hear

2:19:36

this rhetoric everywhere

2:19:37

of defund the police

2:19:38

and calling cops pigs

2:19:39

and it's crazy.

2:19:41

It's crazy

2:19:42

and it,

2:19:42

it ultimately

2:19:43

destroys the fabric

2:19:45

of our society.

2:19:47

and,

2:19:47

you know,

2:19:48

there's plenty of evidence

2:19:51

that cops have done bad things.

2:19:52

It's not excusing

2:19:53

the bad cops.

2:19:54

There's bad plumbers.

2:19:55

There's bad car mechanics.

2:19:57

There's bad everything

2:19:58

and there's people

2:19:59

that shouldn't be cops

2:20:00

and when you see a video

2:20:02

of someone

2:20:02

who shouldn't be cop,

2:20:03

shouldn't be a cop

2:20:04

and is,

2:20:05

you know,

2:20:06

on their last nerve

2:20:07

and snaps at someone

2:20:08

or overreacts at someone

2:20:10

or brutalizes someone

2:20:12

totally unnecessarily,

2:20:13

it gives you

2:20:14

a very distorted perception

2:20:16

of the average encounter

2:20:17

that a person has

2:20:18

with police officers

2:20:19

because most of the interactions

2:20:21

that people have

2:20:21

with police officers

2:20:22

are fine.

2:20:23

Most of them.

2:20:24

The vast majority.

2:20:25

No one gets hurt.

2:20:26

No one goes to jail.

2:20:28

Most of them.

2:20:29

You know,

2:20:30

but you see the ones

2:20:31

that go sideways

2:20:32

and then you think

2:20:33

this is what cops are doing.

2:20:34

They're out there

2:20:35

trying to kill people.

2:20:35

Well,

2:20:36

that's one of the disadvantages,

2:20:38

I suppose,

2:20:39

of the way the algorithms work

2:20:40

that edge cases

2:20:41

that are unbelievable

2:20:42

and shocking

2:20:43

are the ones

2:20:43

that catch the most fire.

2:20:44

Right.

2:20:45

And what it creates

2:20:46

is it moves the fringe

2:20:48

to the middle

2:20:48

because most of what you see

2:20:50

by design

2:20:51

is the stuff

2:20:52

that's the most outlandish.

2:20:53

And then it gets used

2:20:54

as a political tool.

2:20:55

Correct.

2:20:56

You mentioned about

2:20:57

Biden and Kamala.

2:20:59

What do you think you do

2:21:00

if you're either of them now?

2:21:03

Like Trump's just running ragged,

2:21:05

flying high,

2:21:06

having all of this fun.

2:21:07

Like what are they doing?

2:21:09

Like what do you do

2:21:10

when you've lost,

2:21:11

two people have lost a campaign

2:21:12

in the space of six months?

2:21:13

I don't know.

2:21:14

Tim Walsh is out there

2:21:15

talking again.

2:21:16

You say he could fight

2:21:18

any Trump supporter?

2:21:19

Yeah, he said he'd kick their ass

2:21:20

and they're scared of him

2:21:22

because he could fix a truck.

2:21:23

Like they were threatened

2:21:24

by his masculinity.

2:21:25

I know how to fix a truck.

2:21:26

So he said I'm like,

2:21:27

do you?

2:21:28

I bet you don't.

2:21:30

The lady doth protest too much.

2:21:32

I bet you don't.

2:21:32

I bet if I bring a broken truck to you

2:21:35

and a bag of tools,

2:21:36

you're fucked.

2:21:37

That was kind of the redress, right?

2:21:39

That was the attempt.

2:21:40

It was like we're going to,

2:21:41

the symbol of masculinity on the left

2:21:45

is going to be Tim Walsh.

2:21:45

It was Aragon.

2:21:46

Aragon from Lord of the Rings

2:21:49

and Tim Walsh.

2:21:49

Yeah, it's so crazy.

2:21:51

I just don't,

2:21:52

I think they're lost.

2:21:53

I mean, they're also lost

2:21:54

in that they can't control

2:21:55

the narrative anymore.

2:21:56

I think when they had control

2:21:58

of Twitter

2:21:58

and they had control of all,

2:22:00

essentially all of social media

2:22:01

and pre-Trump,

2:22:02

they had the reins

2:22:04

like firmly held.

2:22:07

They were in control

2:22:08

of the public narrative.

2:22:09

If you strayed from that,

2:22:11

you will be kicked off social media.

2:22:12

You'll be banned from YouTube.

2:22:14

You were,

2:22:14

I mean,

2:22:15

and for things that were factually correct,

2:22:17

like the lab leak theory

2:22:18

is now finally being embraced

2:22:20

by the New York Times.

2:22:21

The New York Times,

2:22:22

I don't know if you saw that article

2:22:23

the other day.

2:22:24

They said we were misled.

2:22:26

Like, bro, you misled us.

2:22:28

We were misled.

2:22:29

Yeah.

2:22:29

By ourselves.

2:22:30

There was a big,

2:22:31

op-ed in the New York Times

2:22:33

that has people up in arms

2:22:34

because they're like,

2:22:34

fucking duh.

2:22:35

You're finally,

2:22:36

do you know where it is?

2:22:38

I could send it to you.

2:22:39

I saved it

2:22:41

because it's so ridiculous.

2:22:42

It's so ridiculous.

2:22:43

I was like,

2:22:44

what are you saying?

2:22:45

How are you saying that?

2:22:46

It was you guys.

2:22:48

It wasn't just some random people

2:22:50

that did that.

2:22:53

Do you find it anywhere,

2:22:57

do you find it anywhere, Jamie?

2:22:57

I know I saved it.

2:22:59

Which was it called?

2:23:00

It was the New York Times

2:23:02

saying that we were misled.

2:23:03

There was a big op-ed

2:23:05

in the New York Times.

2:23:09

I saw people spreading

2:23:10

and I never saw the link.

2:23:11

Yeah, I read it.

2:23:12

I read it for, like,

2:23:15

the first couple chapters,

2:23:15

but it's all duh.

2:23:17

The whole thing

2:23:18

is just fucking duh.

2:23:19

God, where did I save it?

2:23:22

I saved too many things.

2:23:23

I'm a hoarder.

2:23:25

Digital hoarder.

2:23:26

I'm a digital hoarder.

2:23:27

Do you know why that happens?

2:23:28

Do you know why people hoard stuff?

2:23:29

The interesting way

2:23:30

that their brains work.

2:23:31

No.

2:23:32

Looking around this table,

2:23:33

you're able to discern

2:23:34

between stuff that is useful

2:23:36

and stuff that isn't useful.

2:23:37

There it is.

2:23:38

We were badly misled

2:23:39

about the event

2:23:40

that changed our lives.

2:23:41

Who are you badly misled by?

2:23:43

Do you think you guys

2:23:44

had a factor in that?

2:23:45

Since scientists began

2:23:52

playing around

2:23:52

with dangerous pathogens

2:23:53

in laboratories,

2:23:54

the world has experienced

2:23:55

four or five pandemics,

2:23:56

depending on how you count.

2:23:57

One of them,

2:23:58

the 1977 Russian flu,

2:24:00

almost certainly sparked

2:24:01

by a research mishap.

2:24:02

Some Western scientists

2:24:03

quickly suspected

2:24:04

the odd virus

2:24:05

had resided in a lab freezer

2:24:08

for a couple of decades,

2:24:09

but they kept mostly quiet

2:24:11

for fear of ruffling feathers.

2:24:12

Yet in 2020,

2:24:14

when people started speculating

2:24:16

that a lab accident

2:24:17

might have been the spark

2:24:19

that started the COVID-19 pandemic,

2:24:21

they were treated

2:24:22

like kooks and cranks

2:24:23

in this newspaper.

2:24:25

many public health officials

2:24:26

and prominent,

2:24:27

by the way,

2:24:28

not by this person,

2:24:28

I'm not blaming this person.

2:24:30

Many public health officials

2:24:33

and prominent scientists

2:24:34

dismissed the idea

2:24:35

as a conspiracy theory.

2:24:36

I wonder why they did that.

2:24:37

I wonder if there's

2:24:38

an email paper trail

2:24:39

that's already been established.

2:24:41

There is.

2:24:42

Insisting that a virus

2:24:44

had emerged from animals

2:24:45

in a seafood market

2:24:46

in Wuhan, China,

2:24:47

and when a non-profit

2:24:48

called EcoHealth Alliance

2:24:49

lost a great grant

2:24:50

because it was planning

2:24:55

to conduct risky research

2:24:56

into bat viruses

2:24:57

with the Wuhan Institute

2:24:58

of Virology,

2:24:59

research that,

2:25:00

if conducted

2:25:00

with lax safety standards,

2:25:01

could have resulted

2:25:02

in a dangerous pathogen

2:25:04

leaking out into the world.

2:25:05

No fewer than 77 Nobel laureates

2:25:07

in 31 scientific societies

2:25:09

lined up to defend

2:25:11

the organization.

2:25:12

Yeah, they defend themselves.

2:25:13

I mean, it's appeal to authority

2:25:15

and they fucked us

2:25:17

and you guys were a part of it,

2:25:18

by the way.

2:25:18

That newspaper

2:25:19

was a big part of it.

2:25:20

Big part of calling

2:25:21

the lab leak theory racist,

2:25:24

which was really kooky.

2:25:25

It's strange that

2:25:26

everything is concretized

2:25:27

on the internet

2:25:28

for the rest of time.

2:25:29

Yeah.

2:25:30

I mean, people can go back

2:25:31

and try and, like,

2:25:32

retrograde, remove

2:25:34

stuff that happened,

2:25:35

but there's always

2:25:35

Internet Archive

2:25:36

is fantastic for this.

2:25:37

Yeah.

2:25:37

For the most part,

2:25:38

you can find it

2:25:39

if you're inspired.

2:25:40

So how is it

2:25:43

that so many U-turns,

2:25:45

regardless of what it is,

2:25:46

regardless of which side it is,

2:25:47

the sort of permanent state

2:25:50

of amnesia

2:25:51

that everybody's in,

2:25:52

there was this WhatsApp message.

2:25:56

You ever have one

2:25:57

of those WhatsApp messages

2:25:57

where it says

2:25:58

forwarded many times

2:25:59

at the top

2:25:59

and you're like,

2:26:00

oh, this is going to be good.

2:26:01

Right.

2:26:01

And it's just an advert.

2:26:03

It's just a banner

2:26:03

forwarded many times.

2:26:05

And it was a single squaddy,

2:26:08

a guy in fatigues

2:26:10

walking down the street

2:26:11

in London

2:26:12

and a screenshot,

2:26:13

I think,

2:26:13

of a text saying

2:26:14

that someone had said

2:26:16

that the army

2:26:17

was going to be deployed

2:26:18

on the streets of London

2:26:18

to keep everybody

2:26:19

in the house

2:26:19

through martial law,

2:26:20

that this was how intense

2:26:22

that the lockdowns

2:26:22

were going to get.

2:26:23

And it was going to happen

2:26:24

on this particular day.

2:26:25

It goes crazy on Facebook,

2:26:25

crazy on WhatsApp.

2:26:26

Never happened.

2:26:29

And like all of the people

2:26:31

that shared that,

2:26:32

that were adamant,

2:26:32

that created all of these stories

2:26:34

and theories around it,

2:26:35

like no one ever actually

2:26:37

went to go and call those people out

2:26:39

about what it was

2:26:40

that they'd pushed.

2:26:41

All of the people

2:26:42

that were adamant,

2:26:42

global health passports,

2:26:44

the vaccine passport,

2:26:45

that's going to come,

2:26:45

that's going to happen.

2:26:46

I mean,

2:26:46

the unfalsifiable version of it

2:26:50

is because we knew

2:26:51

that it was going to happen,

2:26:52

they weren't able to do it.

2:26:53

So actually,

2:26:54

we were the righteous resistance

2:26:55

in doing the thing.

2:26:56

And the same with

2:26:57

whether it's lab leak theory,

2:26:59

whether it's Joe Biden's

2:27:00

mental decline,

2:27:01

no matter what it is,

2:27:02

you can put this position out there.

2:27:04

It's fucking fortified

2:27:07

on the internet

2:27:07

for the rest of time.

2:27:08

And after a long enough,

2:27:10

you're like,

2:27:10

I don't remember that.

2:27:12

You know,

2:27:12

you're like fucking

2:27:12

the most gaslighty partner

2:27:14

that you've ever been with.

2:27:14

I'm not,

2:27:15

are you sure?

2:27:16

Yeah,

2:27:16

I don't think I did say that.

2:27:18

I did,

2:27:18

I do this like fucking

2:27:19

fugazi like switcheroo,

2:27:20

some lexical

2:27:21

Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

2:27:22

Yeah.

2:27:23

And I don't have to,

2:27:24

I don't have to atone

2:27:25

for my previous sins anymore.

2:27:26

Well,

2:27:26

I think in this case,

2:27:27

you have an individual journalist

2:27:30

who wrote this story.

2:27:31

I do not know the history

2:27:33

of this individual journalist,

2:27:34

but what they said

2:27:36

is accurate and important.

2:27:37

So it's good

2:27:38

that the New York Times

2:27:39

has this

2:27:40

come to Jesus moment

2:27:42

where they lay out,

2:27:43

hey,

2:27:44

the conspiracy theories

2:27:45

were all true.

2:27:46

That's what the title should be.

2:27:48

The conspiracy theories

2:27:49

were all true.

2:27:50

Yeah,

2:27:50

the shot wasn't effective.

2:27:51

Yeah,

2:27:53

there were therapeutics

2:27:54

that were available

2:27:54

that were dismissed

2:27:57

and that bad studies

2:27:59

were created

2:27:59

in order to make sure

2:28:01

that people weren't

2:28:02

taking these drugs

2:28:03

because we needed

2:28:03

the emergency use authorization.

2:28:05

And the only way

2:28:06

you can get that

2:28:07

is if you have no treatment.

2:28:09

So you had to rely

2:28:10

on one thing

2:28:11

and that one thing

2:28:12

was the vaccine

2:28:12

and they all participated in it.

2:28:14

How much do you think

2:28:15

New York Times

2:28:16

with articles like that,

2:28:17

Bezos coming out recently

2:28:19

and saying that

2:28:20

there's this sort of

2:28:20

balance thing

2:28:21

that he's got going on

2:28:22

at the Washington Post,

2:28:23

Zuckerberg's recent

2:28:25

sort of pivot

2:28:26

with regards to fact-checking

2:28:27

on meta platforms,

2:28:28

how many of those

2:28:30

do you think

2:28:30

would have happened

2:28:31

if there hadn't been

2:28:32

a Trump victory

2:28:33

in November?

2:28:34

How much of this

2:28:35

is blowing with the wind

2:28:35

do you think?

2:28:36

Most of it's blowing

2:28:36

with the wind.

2:28:37

It's the society,

2:28:38

society's decided

2:28:39

we're done.

2:28:40

You know,

2:28:41

this was Trump

2:28:42

getting elected,

2:28:42

this was Elon

2:28:44

buying Twitter,

2:28:44

this was,

2:28:46

you know,

2:28:47

and this is the blowback

2:28:48

that you're seeing,

2:28:49

these organized protests

2:28:51

and vandalism

2:28:51

on Tesla dealerships

2:28:53

and keying people.

2:28:54

They're encouraging people.

2:28:56

People are,

2:28:56

there's like,

2:28:57

there's so many videos

2:28:57

of people just smashing

2:28:58

Teslas,

2:28:59

carving swastikas

2:29:01

into the side of Teslas

2:29:02

because sentry mode,

2:29:04

these cars all have

2:29:04

sentry mode.

2:29:05

So you could leave

2:29:06

your Tesla parked

2:29:07

and it has HD video

2:29:08

of everything that's

2:29:08

happening all around it.

2:29:09

And it uploads it

2:29:10

so you can just see

2:29:11

who did what?

2:29:11

Yeah,

2:29:12

yeah,

2:29:12

you can watch it.

2:29:13

That's why all these

2:29:13

videos are out.

2:29:14

All these videos are out

2:29:15

is people extracting

2:29:16

them from their cars.

2:29:17

The video isn't published

2:29:19

by the rioters,

2:29:19

the video is published

2:29:20

by the victims.

2:29:21

Exactly.

2:29:22

Fuck.

2:29:23

Yeah,

2:29:24

and there's tons of people

2:29:25

that have been arrested

2:29:25

for this now.

2:29:26

Tons of people.

2:29:27

I don't know what,

2:29:28

I mean,

2:29:29

I guess it's a way

2:29:30

of trying to protest

2:29:33

against some person

2:29:34

that you don't like.

2:29:34

Yeah,

2:29:35

but it's funded.

2:29:35

That's what's crazy.

2:29:37

And it's all because

2:29:38

what Elon is doing

2:29:39

with USAID

2:29:41

and what he's doing

2:29:41

with Doge,

2:29:42

the Department of Government

2:29:43

Efficiency

2:29:44

is finding a lot

2:29:45

of inefficiency

2:29:46

waste and fraud.

2:29:47

Most of it,

2:29:48

he believes,

2:29:49

is waste.

2:29:49

Some of it is fraud.

2:29:50

And it's a lot of,

2:29:52

there's a lot of money

2:29:54

that's going in directions

2:29:55

it shouldn't be going.

2:29:56

And then there's stuff

2:29:57

that's legal

2:29:58

that probably shouldn't

2:29:59

be legal

2:29:59

like non-government

2:30:00

organizations

2:30:01

doing the bidding

2:30:02

of the government

2:30:03

because they're funded

2:30:04

by the government.

2:30:04

There's certain things

2:30:05

the government

2:30:06

is not allowed to do

2:30:07

but a non-government

2:30:08

organization,

2:30:09

an NGO,

2:30:09

can do.

2:30:10

What's an example

2:30:11

of that?

2:30:12

Well,

2:30:12

regime change.

2:30:13

Like,

2:30:14

a lot of what

2:30:15

this money

2:30:16

is going to,

2:30:18

it goes to

2:30:19

foreign countries

2:30:20

where we have

2:30:21

an interest

2:30:21

in having

2:30:22

the people

2:30:23

that are running

2:30:23

that country

2:30:24

on our side.

2:30:25

or we

2:30:26

don't like

2:30:27

them

2:30:28

and we want

2:30:28

to fund

2:30:29

the rebels.

2:30:29

And so

2:30:30

you can fund

2:30:31

the people,

2:30:32

you can fund

2:30:33

them through

2:30:33

all sorts

2:30:34

of organizations

2:30:35

where you hide

2:30:36

and mask

2:30:37

the money

2:30:37

and you move

2:30:38

it around

2:30:38

and you have

2:30:39

essentially

2:30:40

blank checks

2:30:41

and you can

2:30:42

just funnel

2:30:42

billions of

2:30:43

dollars all

2:30:44

over the world

2:30:45

with no accounting.

2:30:45

Mike Benz

2:30:46

is like the

2:30:47

most prophetic

2:30:47

person of all

2:30:48

time.

2:30:48

Oh my god.

2:30:49

I mean,

2:30:50

he talked

2:30:50

about it

2:30:51

on this podcast

2:30:52

before Doge

2:30:53

and before USAID

2:30:54

and everybody

2:30:55

was like,

2:30:55

oh,

2:30:55

conspiracy

2:30:56

theorists

2:30:57

and this

2:30:57

and that

2:30:58

and this guy,

2:30:58

so he used

2:30:59

to work

2:30:59

for the State

2:30:59

Department.

2:31:00

What the fuck

2:31:00

does he know?

2:31:00

Apparently,

2:31:01

he knows everything.

2:31:02

He knows all

2:31:03

of it

2:31:03

and he can spit

2:31:04

it out.

2:31:04

His recall

2:31:06

is incredible.

2:31:06

And,

2:31:07

you know,

2:31:08

that guy's

2:31:09

got to be

2:31:09

fucking terrified

2:31:10

because he's

2:31:11

out there

2:31:11

exposing.

2:31:12

He's essentially

2:31:13

the guy

2:31:14

who led Elon

2:31:15

to the coffin

2:31:16

where the vampire

2:31:17

sleeps.

2:31:17

Like,

2:31:18

this is where

2:31:19

it is.

2:31:19

It must be

2:31:21

an odd

2:31:21

situation to be

2:31:22

in because

2:31:22

most of the time

2:31:23

the level of

2:31:24

scrutiny that

2:31:25

you're under

2:31:25

and the level

2:31:26

of security

2:31:27

threat that's

2:31:28

likely is kind

2:31:29

of,

2:31:29

it goes in line

2:31:30

with status

2:31:32

or fame

2:31:33

and that also

2:31:33

goes in line

2:31:34

with maybe

2:31:34

some resources

2:31:35

too.

2:31:35

So,

2:31:36

as people get

2:31:37

more likely

2:31:38

to be a target,

2:31:39

they're also

2:31:40

more able

2:31:41

to perhaps

2:31:41

be able to

2:31:42

protect themselves

2:31:43

with living

2:31:44

in a nicer

2:31:44

house,

2:31:45

gated community.

2:31:46

Like Elon.

2:31:47

Yeah,

2:31:47

having security

2:31:48

and stuff

2:31:48

like that.

2:31:49

But this

2:31:50

is one of

2:31:50

those weird

2:31:51

situations

2:31:51

where your

2:31:53

knowledge,

2:31:53

your particular

2:31:54

insight,

2:31:55

makes you

2:31:56

so uniquely

2:31:57

vulnerable

2:31:58

or such a

2:31:59

heavy target,

2:32:00

but it hasn't

2:32:01

come with the

2:32:02

concordant increase

2:32:03

in status

2:32:03

and resources

2:32:04

that would

2:32:05

allow you to

2:32:05

be able to

2:32:06

actually protect

2:32:06

yourself.

2:32:07

And this is,

2:32:08

I guess,

2:32:08

the crisis

2:32:09

of a

2:32:10

whistleblower.

2:32:10

Yes.

2:32:11

Yes.

2:32:12

Whistleblower

2:32:12

and investigative

2:32:13

journalists.

2:32:14

Yeah.

2:32:14

I mean,

2:32:15

this is why

2:32:15

Julian Assange

2:32:16

spent so much

2:32:17

time in jail.

2:32:17

I was just

2:32:18

about to bring

2:32:18

up Ross Ulbricht.

2:32:19

Yes.

2:32:20

Have you,

2:32:21

you guys must

2:32:22

have tried

2:32:22

to reach out to him.

2:32:22

Yeah,

2:32:23

we reached out,

2:32:23

but he doesn't

2:32:24

really want to

2:32:24

talk to anybody

2:32:25

right now,

2:32:25

which is totally

2:32:26

understandable.

2:32:26

He's got an

2:32:28

open invitation.

2:32:29

If he ever

2:32:29

just says,

2:32:30

okay,

2:32:31

I'd like to

2:32:31

talk,

2:32:32

whenever.

2:32:33

Yeah,

2:32:33

I'd love to

2:32:34

sit down

2:32:34

and talk to him.

2:32:35

You know,

2:32:36

I'd love to

2:32:36

find the real

2:32:36

story because

2:32:37

the narrative

2:32:40

and the documentary,

2:32:43

the docudrama

2:32:44

that was made

2:32:45

about the Silk

2:32:46

Road and what

2:32:47

he did,

2:32:47

you know,

2:32:48

I'd like to

2:32:49

know how much

2:32:49

of that is

2:32:49

bullshit because

2:32:50

I think a lot

2:32:51

of it probably

2:32:51

was.

2:32:52

You know,

2:32:53

I think they

2:32:53

were trying

2:32:53

to set him

2:32:54

up for sure

2:32:55

and I think

2:32:56

there's probably

2:32:58

some things

2:32:59

that he was

2:33:00

accused of

2:33:00

that aren't

2:33:01

accurate.

2:33:01

You know,

2:33:02

I'd like to

2:33:03

know.

2:33:03

Isn't it

2:33:04

funny that

2:33:04

we always

2:33:05

think about

2:33:06

conspiracy theories,

2:33:08

all of this

2:33:08

stuff as always

2:33:09

being in the

2:33:09

past and

2:33:10

that when

2:33:11

something is

2:33:11

unfolding right

2:33:12

now,

2:33:13

I wonder how

2:33:14

much stuff is

2:33:15

being ignored

2:33:16

by the media

2:33:17

but will be

2:33:17

studied by

2:33:18

historians.

2:33:18

I wonder.

2:33:19

I wonder what

2:33:20

that would be.

2:33:21

That's one of

2:33:21

my friend's

2:33:23

favorite questions

2:33:23

to ask.

2:33:24

What is being

2:33:24

ignored by the

2:33:25

media but will

2:33:26

be studied by

2:33:26

historians?

2:33:26

I certainly

2:33:27

think that

2:33:28

smartphone use

2:33:29

will be one

2:33:29

of those.

2:33:30

You know,

2:33:30

there was that

2:33:31

five deathbed

2:33:32

regrets of

2:33:33

the dying.

2:33:33

I wish I'd

2:33:35

kept in touch

2:33:35

with my

2:33:35

friends.

2:33:36

I wish I

2:33:36

hadn't worked

2:33:36

so much.

2:33:37

I wish I'd

2:33:38

allowed myself

2:33:38

to be happy.

2:33:39

I wish I'd

2:33:40

lived the life

2:33:40

I wanted and

2:33:41

not the life

2:33:41

that other

2:33:41

people had

2:33:42

for me,

2:33:42

blah,

2:33:42

blah.

2:33:42

Yeah.

2:33:44

I would bet

2:33:45

everything that

2:33:46

I'm worth

2:33:46

that within

2:33:47

the next

2:33:47

couple of

2:33:47

decades I

2:33:48

wish I'd

2:33:48

spent less

2:33:49

time on

2:33:49

my phone.

2:33:49

Yeah.

2:33:50

Would be

2:33:50

one of

2:33:50

those.

2:33:50

No doubt.

2:33:51

One hundred

2:33:52

percent.

2:33:52

Well,

2:33:52

your time is

2:33:53

so valuable

2:33:54

and how do

2:33:55

you have

2:33:55

five extra

2:33:56

hours a

2:33:56

day?

2:33:57

Well,

2:33:58

look at

2:33:58

your screen

2:33:59

time.

2:33:59

It'll

2:33:59

save five

2:34:00

hours.

2:34:00

We were

2:34:01

talking about

2:34:01

this before

2:34:01

we got

2:34:02

started that

2:34:02

you have

2:34:03

the same

2:34:04

number of

2:34:05

hours that

2:34:05

somebody did

2:34:05

a hundred

2:34:06

years ago.

2:34:07

But the

2:34:07

average amount

2:34:08

of time

2:34:08

that Americans

2:34:09

spend on

2:34:09

screens is

2:34:10

eight hours

2:34:10

at the

2:34:10

moment.

2:34:11

The average

2:34:11

time that

2:34:11

they eat

2:34:12

on screen

2:34:13

to all

2:34:13

screens.

2:34:14

The average

2:34:14

time they

2:34:15

spend to

2:34:15

sleep is

2:34:15

6.5.

2:34:16

So people

2:34:18

are sleeping

2:34:18

for one

2:34:19

and a half

2:34:20

hours less

2:34:20

than they

2:34:21

spend their

2:34:21

time on

2:34:21

their

2:34:21

phone.

2:34:22

And what

2:34:23

are you

2:34:23

getting out

2:34:24

of it?

2:34:24

Nothing

2:34:25

tangible.

2:34:26

It's so hard.

2:34:27

It's so hard.

2:34:27

It's so

2:34:28

addicting.

2:34:28

It's designed

2:34:29

to be

2:34:29

addicting.

2:34:29

I mean,

2:34:30

you've

2:34:30

had Tristan

2:34:30

Harris on

2:34:31

here.

2:34:31

You know,

2:34:32

the way

2:34:33

the variable

2:34:34

schedule

2:34:35

reward

2:34:35

that

2:34:36

tempts

2:34:37

you,

2:34:37

that

2:34:37

keeps

2:34:38

you

2:34:38

there.

2:34:38

You

2:34:38

don't

2:34:38

know

2:34:38

what's

2:34:38

going

2:34:38

to

2:34:39

happen.

2:34:39

This

2:34:39

is

2:34:39

so

2:34:39

interesting.

2:34:40

I had

2:34:40

the guy

2:34:42

who wrote

2:34:42

Stuart Russell,

2:34:44

he wrote

2:34:44

the original

2:34:45

AI textbook.

2:34:46

It's

2:34:46

translated

2:34:47

into 70

2:34:47

languages

2:34:48

around the

2:34:48

world.

2:34:48

He taught

2:34:49

me this

2:34:49

really

2:34:49

interesting

2:34:50

thing

2:34:50

about

2:34:50

how

2:34:50

the

2:34:50

algorithms

2:34:51

work.

2:34:51

So we

2:34:52

know

2:34:52

the job

2:34:53

of the

2:34:53

algorithm

2:34:53

is

2:34:53

to

2:34:53

predict

2:34:54

what

2:34:54

you

2:34:54

want

2:34:54

to

2:34:54

click

2:34:54

on.

2:34:54

So

2:34:56

what

2:34:56

it

2:34:56

wants

2:34:56

to

2:34:56

do

2:34:56

is

2:34:57

get

2:34:57

better

2:34:57

at

2:34:58

working

2:34:58

out

2:34:58

what

2:34:59

Joe

2:34:59

likes

2:34:59

on

2:35:00

his

2:35:00

YouTube

2:35:00

feed

2:35:00

or

2:35:00

on

2:35:00

his

2:35:00

Instagram

2:35:01

feed

2:35:01

or

2:35:01

whatever.

2:35:01

There's

2:35:02

actually

2:35:02

two

2:35:03

ways

2:35:03

that

2:35:04

it

2:35:04

can

2:35:04

become

2:35:04

more

2:35:04

accurate

2:35:05

at

2:35:05

being

2:35:05

able

2:35:06

to

2:35:06

predict

2:35:06

what

2:35:06

you're

2:35:06

going

2:35:06

to

2:35:06

click

2:35:06

on.

2:35:07

The

2:35:07

first

2:35:07

one

2:35:07

is

2:35:07

to

2:35:07

be

2:35:08

better

2:35:08

at

2:35:08

providing

2:35:09

you

2:35:09

with

2:35:09

things

2:35:09

that

2:35:09

you'll

2:35:10

select.

2:35:10

The

2:35:11

second

2:35:11

one

2:35:11

is

2:35:12

nudging

2:35:12

your

2:35:12

preferences

2:35:13

so

2:35:13

that

2:35:14

you

2:35:14

are

2:35:14

more

2:35:14

easy

2:35:15

to

2:35:15

predict.

2:35:15

because

2:35:17

if

2:35:17

you

2:35:17

just

2:35:17

give

2:35:17

something

2:35:18

the

2:35:18

optimizing

2:35:18

function

2:35:19

of

2:35:19

cause

2:35:20

Joe

2:35:20

to

2:35:20

click

2:35:20

on

2:35:20

a

2:35:21

thing

2:35:21

and

2:35:22

stick

2:35:22

about

2:35:22

what

2:35:23

like

2:35:23

click

2:35:24

through

2:35:24

and

2:35:24

watch

2:35:24

time

2:35:24

if

2:35:25

you

2:35:25

get

2:35:25

it

2:35:25

to

2:35:25

do

2:35:25

that

2:35:26

it'll

2:35:26

just

2:35:26

find

2:35:27

any

2:35:27

route

2:35:27

it's

2:35:28

not

2:35:28

bounded

2:35:28

by

2:35:29

and

2:35:29

you

2:35:29

must

2:35:30

make

2:35:30

sure

2:35:30

that

2:35:31

it's

2:35:31

his

2:35:31

existing

2:35:32

preferences

2:35:32

you can't

2:35:33

change

2:35:33

his

2:35:33

preferences

2:35:33

but

2:35:34

this

2:35:34

is

2:35:34

one

2:35:34

of

2:35:35

the

2:35:35

reasons

2:35:35

I

2:35:35

think

2:35:35

why

2:35:36

polarization

2:35:37

has

2:35:37

increased

2:35:37

not

2:35:38

just

2:35:38

that

2:35:38

edge

2:35:39

cases

2:35:40

get

2:35:40

used

2:35:40

it

2:35:41

pushes

2:35:41

people

2:35:41

further

2:35:41

apart

2:35:42

they

2:35:42

get

2:35:42

put

2:35:42

off

2:35:42

into

2:35:43

their

2:35:43

silos

2:35:43

echo

2:35:44

chambers

2:35:44

recursive

2:35:45

stuff

2:35:45

blah blah

2:35:45

blah

2:35:45

I

2:35:46

think

2:35:46

a

2:35:47

big

2:35:47

part

2:35:47

of

2:35:47

it

2:35:47

is

2:35:47

just

2:35:48

the

2:35:48

algorithms

2:35:48

find

2:35:49

it

2:35:49

easier

2:35:49

to

2:35:50

be

2:35:50

able

2:35:50

to

2:35:50

predict

2:35:51

you

2:35:51

which

2:35:51

gives

2:35:51

them

2:35:52

an

2:35:52

incentive

2:35:52

it's

2:35:53

not

2:35:53

like

2:35:53

a

2:35:53

conscious

2:35:54

incentive

2:35:54

but

2:35:55

it

2:35:55

gives

2:35:55

you

2:35:56

this

2:35:56

incentive

2:35:56

to

2:35:56

be

2:35:56

pushed

2:35:57

out

2:35:57

to

2:35:57

the

2:35:57

sides

2:35:57

and

2:35:58

there's

2:35:58

this

2:35:58

worry

2:36:08

like

2:36:08

an

2:36:10

uncurious

2:36:12

intellectual

2:36:13

insulation

2:36:14

so

2:36:15

people

2:36:15

believe

2:36:16

that

2:36:16

they

2:36:16

know

2:36:16

the

2:36:16

answer

2:36:17

to

2:36:17

the

2:36:17

question

2:36:17

before

2:36:18

the

2:36:19

question

2:36:19

has

2:36:19

even

2:36:19

been

2:36:19

asked

2:36:20

I

2:36:20

know

2:36:21

what

2:36:22

the

2:36:22

outcome

2:36:22

is

2:36:23

I

2:36:23

know

2:36:23

what

2:36:23

the

2:36:23

answer

2:36:24

is

2:36:24

before

2:36:24

you've

2:36:24

even

2:36:24

asked

2:36:25

me

2:36:25

the

2:36:25

question

2:36:25

and

2:36:26

what's

2:36:26

interesting

2:36:26

about

2:36:26

this

2:36:27

epidemic

2:36:28

of

2:36:28

knowingness

2:36:29

we

2:36:29

have

2:36:29

at

2:36:29

the

2:36:29

moment

2:36:29

is

2:36:30

if

2:36:30

the

2:36:31

problem

2:36:31

is

2:36:31

poor

2:36:31

information

2:36:32

you

2:36:33

can

2:36:33

fix

2:36:33

it

2:36:33

typically

2:36:34

with

2:36:34

better

2:36:35

information

2:36:35

I

2:36:36

will

2:36:38

knowingness

2:36:38

you

2:36:39

are

2:36:40

insulated

2:36:40

from

2:36:40

ever

2:36:41

updating

2:36:41

your

2:36:41

beliefs

2:36:42

because

2:36:42

no

2:36:43

amount

2:36:43

of

2:36:43

existing

2:36:44

new

2:36:44

information

2:36:45

is

2:36:45

going

2:36:45

to

2:36:45

actually

2:36:45

help

2:36:46

you

2:36:46

there's

2:36:46

this

2:36:46

really

2:36:47

cool

2:36:47

quote

2:36:47

that

2:36:47

said

2:36:47

most

2:36:48

people

2:36:48

think

2:36:49

that

2:36:49

they

2:36:49

are

2:36:49

thinking

2:36:49

when

2:36:50

all

2:36:50

they

2:36:50

are

2:36:50

doing

2:36:51

is

2:36:51

rearranging

2:36:51

their

2:36:51

prejudices

2:36:52

and I

2:36:54

think

2:36:54

that explains

2:36:55

why the

2:36:56

culture war

2:36:56

is so

2:36:56

boring

2:36:57

culture war

2:36:57

is

2:36:57

largely

2:36:58

super

2:36:58

boring

2:36:58

because

2:36:59

both

2:37:00

sides

2:37:00

act

2:37:00

as if

2:37:01

the

2:37:01

facts

2:37:01

are

2:37:01

already

2:37:01

settled

2:37:02

whilst

2:37:03

not

2:37:03

agreeing

2:37:03

on

2:37:04

the

2:37:04

facts

2:37:04

you

2:37:05

know

2:37:05

what

2:37:05

I

2:37:05

mean

2:37:06

yeah

2:37:06

so

2:37:07

how

2:37:07

is

2:37:08

it

2:37:08

that

2:37:08

we've

2:37:08

got

2:37:08

to

2:37:08

the

2:37:08

stage

2:37:09

where

2:37:10

people's

2:37:11

their

2:37:11

prejudices

2:37:12

just get

2:37:12

moved

2:37:13

around

2:37:13

until

2:37:13

they

2:37:14

can

2:37:14

come

2:37:14

up

2:37:15

with

2:37:15

the

2:37:15

outcome

2:37:15

that

2:37:15

they

2:37:16

already

2:37:16

wanted

2:37:16

before

2:37:17

you

2:37:17

even

2:37:17

ask

2:37:17

the

2:37:17

question

2:37:18

about

2:37:18

the

2:37:18

thing

2:37:18

that

2:37:18

you're

2:37:18

talking

2:37:19

about

2:37:19

that's

2:37:20

the

2:37:20

situation

2:37:21

we

2:37:21

end

2:37:21

up

2:37:21

with

2:37:21

and

2:37:21

I

2:37:21

think

2:37:21

it

2:37:21

explains

2:37:22

why

2:37:22

the

2:37:24

culture

2:37:25

was

2:37:25

feel

2:37:26

so

2:37:26

samey

2:37:33

news

2:37:34

is

2:37:34

operating

2:37:34

at

2:37:35

light

2:37:35

speed

2:37:35

and

2:37:36

the

2:37:36

way

2:37:36

that

2:37:36

we

2:37:36

move

2:37:37

forward

2:37:37

with

2:37:37

our

2:37:37

conceptual

2:37:38

understanding

2:37:39

of the

2:37:39

world

2:37:39

is

2:37:39

moving

2:37:40

forward

2:37:40

at

2:37:40

a

2:37:40

snail's

2:37:40

pace

2:37:41

how

2:37:41

are

2:37:41

these

2:37:42

two

2:37:42

things

2:37:42

happening

2:37:42

together

2:37:43

well

2:37:44

it's

2:37:45

technological

2:37:45

advance

2:37:47

right

2:37:47

technological

2:37:48

advance

2:37:49

is so

2:37:49

much

2:37:49

greater

2:37:50

and

2:37:50

faster

2:37:50

than

2:37:51

biological

2:37:51

advance

2:37:52

this

2:37:53

is

2:37:53

the

2:37:53

scariest

2:37:54

thing

2:37:54

that

2:37:54

leads

2:37:54

us

2:37:54

down

2:37:55

the

2:37:55

road

2:37:55

to

2:37:55

AI

2:37:56

is

2:37:57

that

2:37:57

as

2:37:58

we

2:37:59

are

2:38:00

so

2:38:00

limited

2:38:01

in

2:38:01

our

2:38:02

biological

2:38:02

ability

2:38:03

to

2:38:03

evolve

2:38:04

biological

2:38:04

evolution

2:38:05

takes

2:38:05

so

2:38:06

long

2:38:06

cultural

2:38:06

evolution

2:38:07

takes

2:38:07

so

2:38:07

long

2:38:08

whereas

2:38:08

technological

2:38:09

evolution

2:38:09

is almost

2:38:10

instantaneous

2:38:10

and

2:38:12

we are

2:38:13

being

2:38:13

overrun

2:38:14

by

2:38:15

this

2:38:15

thing

2:38:16

that's

2:38:16

captivated

2:38:17

our

2:38:17

attention

2:38:18

I was

2:38:19

talking about

2:38:19

this the

2:38:19

other day

2:38:20

I was

2:38:20

like

2:38:20

imagine

2:38:20

if there

2:38:20

was a

2:38:21

drug

2:38:21

that

2:38:21

made

2:38:21

you

2:38:21

stare

2:38:21

at

2:38:22

your

2:38:22

hand

2:38:22

for

2:38:22

six

2:38:22

hours

2:38:22

a

2:38:23

day

2:38:23

he'd

2:38:23

be

2:38:23

like

2:38:23

keep

2:38:24

me

2:38:24

the

2:38:24

fuck

2:38:24

away

2:38:24

from

2:38:24

that

2:38:25

drug

2:38:25

but

2:38:26

that's

2:38:26

what

2:38:27

your

2:38:27

phone

2:38:27

is

2:38:27

doing

2:38:28

mostly

2:38:28

you're

2:38:29

getting

2:38:29

nothing

2:38:29

occasionally

2:38:30

you get

2:38:31

a funny

2:38:31

meme

2:38:31

you know

2:38:32

if I

2:38:33

looked at

2:38:33

the amount

2:38:33

of time

2:38:34

that I

2:38:34

spend

2:38:34

online

2:38:35

on a

2:38:36

given

2:38:36

day

2:38:36

and how

2:38:37

much

2:38:37

of it

2:38:38

is

2:38:38

really

2:38:38

fascinating

2:38:38

to me

2:38:39

well every

2:38:40

now and

2:38:40

then you

2:38:40

get a

2:38:40

story

2:38:40

like

2:38:41

that

2:38:41

story

2:38:41

about

2:38:41

the

2:38:42

whole

2:38:42

universe

2:38:42

might be

2:38:43

inside

2:38:43

of a

2:38:43

black

2:38:43

hole

2:38:44

and then

2:38:44

I'm

2:38:44

on a

2:38:44

pyramid

2:38:45

so

2:38:45

there's

2:38:45

this

2:38:45

interesting

2:38:46

insight

2:38:46

about

2:38:46

that

2:38:47

there's

2:38:47

a few

2:38:47

things

2:38:48

you'll

2:38:48

get

2:38:49

but

2:38:49

I

2:38:49

kind

2:38:50

of

2:38:50

feel

2:38:50

like

2:38:50

you

2:38:50

will

2:38:51

get

2:38:51

those

2:38:51

if

2:38:51

you're

2:38:51

offline

2:38:52

just

2:38:52

by

2:38:53

other

2:38:53

people

2:38:53

being

2:38:53

online

2:38:54

they'll

2:38:54

send

2:38:54

it

2:38:54

to

2:38:54

you

2:38:55

you

2:38:55

don't

2:38:56

need

2:38:57

to

2:38:57

be

2:38:57

the

2:38:58

one

2:38:58

doing

2:38:58

the

2:38:58

first

2:38:59

pass

2:38:59

scouring

2:39:00

exactly

2:39:00

your

2:39:01

resources

2:39:02

are

2:39:02

better

2:39:03

utilized

2:39:03

by

2:39:04

not

2:39:04

doing

2:39:04

that

2:39:05

did

2:39:05

you

2:39:05

see

2:39:05

that

2:39:05

it

2:39:06

was

2:39:06

a

2:39:06

guy

2:39:06

who

2:39:07

removed

2:39:08

people's

2:39:09

phones

2:39:09

from

2:39:09

their

2:39:10

hands

2:39:10

the

2:39:11

photographer

2:39:11

who

2:39:11

went

2:39:11

around

2:39:12

I

2:39:12

think

2:39:12

it

2:39:13

was

2:39:13

New

2:39:13

York

2:39:13

City

2:39:13

and

2:39:14

he

2:39:14

took

2:39:14

photos

2:39:15

of

2:39:15

people

2:39:15

and

2:39:15

then

2:39:15

CGI'd

2:39:17

the

2:39:17

phones

2:39:17

out

2:39:17

you

2:39:18

know

2:39:18

you're

2:39:18

talking

2:39:18

about

2:39:18

imagine

2:39:19

if

2:39:19

there

2:39:19

was

2:39:19

this

2:39:19

thing

2:39:19

and

2:39:19

it

2:39:20

made

2:39:20

you

2:39:20

stare

2:39:20

at your

2:39:20

hand

2:39:20

he

2:39:21

actually

2:39:21

did it

2:39:21

so

2:39:22

it

2:39:22

shows

2:39:23

just

2:39:23

how

2:39:23

absurd

2:39:24

it

2:39:24

is

2:39:24

you know

2:39:24

you've

2:39:24

got

2:39:24

an

2:39:25

entire

2:39:25

train

2:39:25

carriage

2:39:26

on the

2:39:26

subway

2:39:26

on the

2:39:26

underground

2:39:27

and

2:39:28

everyone's

2:39:28

staring

2:39:28

at

2:39:28

it's

2:39:29

just

2:39:29

people

2:39:29

staring

2:39:29

down

2:39:30

at

2:39:30

their

2:39:30

hands

2:39:30

like

2:39:31

this

2:39:31

and

2:39:32

it

2:39:43

read

2:39:43

about

2:39:43

stuff

2:39:44

you're

2:39:44

kind

2:39:44

of

2:39:44

bored

2:39:44

a lot

2:39:44

of

2:39:45

the

2:39:45

time

2:39:45

you

2:39:46

need

2:39:46

to

2:39:46

be

2:39:46

sedated

2:39:46

yeah

2:39:47

oh

2:39:47

there

2:39:47

we

2:39:48

go

2:39:48

oh

2:39:49

wow

2:39:49

oh

2:39:51

those

2:39:51

people

2:39:51

just

2:39:52

sitting

2:39:52

there

2:39:52

staring

2:39:52

oh

2:39:53

that's

2:39:53

so

2:39:53

crazy

2:39:53

go back

2:39:54

Jamie

2:39:54

go back

2:39:54

up to

2:39:55

that

2:39:55

one

2:39:55

of

2:39:55

the

2:39:55

kid

2:39:55

wow

2:39:58

it

2:39:58

wasn't

2:39:58

that

2:39:59

long

2:39:59

this

2:39:59

was

2:39:59

2015

2:40:00

in

2:40:00

2012

2:40:01

I

2:40:02

started

2:40:02

trying

2:40:02

to

2:40:02

take

2:40:03

pictures

2:40:03

of

2:40:03

people

2:40:03

in

2:40:03

public

2:40:04

looking

2:40:04

at

2:40:04

their

2:40:04

phones

2:40:05

and

2:40:05

it

2:40:05

wasn't

2:40:05

that

2:40:05

common

2:40:06

then

2:40:06

so

2:40:06

wasn't

2:40:07

that

2:40:07

well

2:40:07

that's

2:40:08

like

2:40:08

when

2:40:08

social

2:40:09

media

2:40:09

kicked

2:40:09

off

2:40:10

in

2:40:10

the

2:40:10

beginning

2:40:11

no one

2:40:11

was

2:40:11

on

2:40:11

it

2:40:11

you'd

2:40:12

see

2:40:12

it

2:40:12

it's

2:40:12

like

2:40:12

most

2:40:13

people

2:40:13

weren't

2:40:13

even

2:40:13

on

2:40:13

Twitter

2:40:14

they're

2:40:14

like

2:40:14

why

2:40:14

would

2:40:14

I

2:40:14

be

2:40:14

on

2:40:15

that

2:40:15

and

2:40:16

you

2:40:16

know

2:40:16

people

2:40:17

were

2:40:17

using

2:40:17

it

2:40:17

to

2:40:20

elevate

2:40:20

their

2:40:20

profile

2:40:20

and

2:40:21

then

2:40:21

people

2:40:21

became

2:40:21

influencers

2:40:22

and

2:40:22

once

2:40:22

people

2:40:22

became

2:40:23

influencers

2:40:23

and

2:40:24

once

2:40:24

people

2:40:24

like

2:40:24

a

2:40:25

regular

2:40:25

person

2:40:26

get

2:40:26

a

2:40:26

couple

2:40:35

living

2:40:35

in

2:40:36

LA

2:40:36

it

2:40:36

was

2:40:37

right

2:40:37

around

2:40:37

the

2:40:37

time

2:40:38

that

2:40:38

a

2:40:38

lot

2:40:38

of

2:40:38

these

2:40:39

what

2:40:41

was

2:40:41

it

2:40:42

back

2:40:42

then

2:40:42

what

2:40:44

was

2:40:44

the

2:40:44

thing

2:40:45

that

2:40:45

was

2:40:45

like

2:40:45

it

2:40:48

wasn't

2:40:48

tick

2:40:49

tock

2:40:49

vine

2:40:49

yes

2:40:50

yeah

2:40:51

yeah

2:40:52

it was

2:40:52

vine

2:40:52

vine

2:40:53

influencers

2:40:53

were the

2:40:54

first

2:40:54

and

2:40:55

they

2:40:55

were

2:40:55

famous

2:40:55

so

2:40:56

they'd

2:40:56

go to

2:40:56

restaurants

2:40:57

and be

2:40:57

like

2:40:57

that's

2:40:57

blah

2:40:58

blah

2:40:58

like

2:40:58

who's

2:40:59

that

2:40:59

like

2:40:59

oh

2:40:59

he's

2:41:00

got

2:41:00

35

2:41:00

million

2:41:01

vine

2:41:01

subscribers

2:41:02

like

2:41:02

what

2:41:02

it

2:41:03

was

2:41:03

bizarre

2:41:04

because

2:41:05

people

2:41:05

that

2:41:06

would

2:41:06

do

2:41:06

antics

2:41:07

or

2:41:07

cause

2:41:08

scenes

2:41:09

or

2:41:09

do

2:41:09

something

2:41:10

to get

2:41:10

attention

2:41:10

and

2:41:11

they

2:41:11

developed

2:41:12

large

2:41:12

followings

2:41:13

wasn't

2:41:14

isn't it

2:41:14

the number

2:41:15

one

2:41:15

job

2:41:16

that

2:41:16

primary

2:41:17

school

2:41:17

kids

2:41:17

want

2:41:18

is to

2:41:18

be

2:41:18

youtuber

2:41:18

an

2:41:18

influencer

2:41:19

yeah

2:41:19

well

2:41:20

they all

2:41:20

watch

2:41:21

them

2:41:21

they all

2:41:21

watch

2:41:21

people

2:41:22

eat

2:41:22

food

2:41:22

and

2:41:23

open

2:41:23

up

2:41:23

toys

2:41:24

and

2:41:24

it's

2:41:24

like

2:41:24

very

2:41:26

weird

2:41:26

it's

2:41:27

very

2:41:27

weird

2:41:27

stuff

2:41:27

because

2:41:28

no one

2:41:28

would

2:41:29

have

2:41:29

ever

2:41:29

predicted

2:41:29

that

2:41:29

that

2:41:30

would

2:41:30

be

2:41:30

something

2:41:30

would

2:41:30

captivate

2:41:31

people's

2:41:31

attention

2:41:31

on a

2:41:32

television

2:41:32

right

2:41:33

there was

2:41:33

no

2:41:33

unboxing

2:41:34

shows

2:41:34

on

2:41:34

television

2:41:35

but yet

2:41:35

unboxing

2:41:36

shows

2:41:36

on the

2:41:37

internet

2:41:37

are

2:41:37

huge

2:41:38

like

2:41:39

people get

2:41:39

sucked

2:41:39

into the

2:41:40

most mundane

2:41:40

thing

2:41:41

someone opening

2:41:41

up package

2:41:42

oh look at

2:41:43

this

2:41:43

here's the

2:41:43

new phone

2:41:44

mm-hmm

2:41:44

yeah

2:41:44

unboxing

2:41:45

in some

2:41:45

ways

2:41:45

I

2:41:46

actually

2:41:46

think

2:41:46

is

2:41:46

quite

2:41:46

satisfying

2:41:47

I

2:41:47

quite

2:41:47

like

2:41:47

watching

2:41:48

the

2:41:48

people

2:41:48

that

2:41:48

have

2:41:48

got

2:41:48

his

2:41:49

new

2:41:49

MacBook

2:41:50

M4

2:41:50

thing

2:41:51

and

2:41:51

it's

2:41:51

shot

2:41:51

all

2:41:51

nice

2:41:52

MKBHD

2:41:53

watching him

2:41:54

do his

2:41:55

stuff

2:41:55

is

2:41:55

really

2:41:56

great

2:41:56

but

2:41:56

he

2:41:56

also

2:41:57

does

2:41:57

a

2:41:57

comprehensive

2:41:58

analysis

2:41:58

of the

2:41:59

tech

2:41:59

it's

2:41:59

not

2:41:59

just

2:42:00

here's

2:42:01

me

2:42:01

playing

2:42:01

with

2:42:01

a

2:42:01

new

2:42:01

MacBook

2:42:02

no

2:42:02

he's

2:42:03

doing

2:42:04

a

2:42:04

review

2:42:04

of

2:42:05

state

2:42:06

of

2:42:06

the

2:42:06

art

2:42:06

where

2:42:07

is

2:42:08

technology

2:42:14

life

2:42:14

looking

2:42:15

at

2:42:15

okay

2:42:15

what

2:42:15

is

2:42:15

it

2:42:16

that

2:42:16

I

2:42:16

want

2:42:16

you

2:42:17

need

2:42:17

to

2:42:17

be

2:42:17

very

2:42:17

careful

2:42:18

about

2:42:18

what

2:42:18

the

2:42:18

process

2:42:19

is

2:42:19

in

2:42:20

order

2:42:20

to

2:42:20

get

2:42:20

the

2:42:20

outcome

2:42:21

that

2:42:21

you

2:42:21

want

2:42:21

because

2:42:22

if

2:42:22

you

2:42:22

want

2:42:22

the

2:42:22

outcome

2:42:23

but

2:42:23

you're

2:42:23

not

2:42:24

prepared

2:42:24

to

2:42:24

live

2:42:24

the

2:42:24

life

2:42:25

needed

2:42:25

to

2:42:25

get

2:42:25

it

2:42:25

you're

2:42:26

just

2:42:26

asking

2:42:27

for

2:42:27

disappointment

2:42:27

yeah

2:42:28

well

2:42:28

said

2:42:29

my

2:42:29

friend

2:42:30

talks

2:42:30

about

2:42:30

call

2:42:31

of

2:42:31

duty

2:42:31

versus

2:42:31

war

2:42:32

and

2:42:33

he

2:42:33

talks

2:42:33

you

2:42:34

think

2:42:34

about

2:42:34

this

2:42:35

is

2:42:36

what

2:42:36

going

2:42:37

on

2:42:37

holiday

2:42:37

to

2:42:37

a

2:42:38

place

2:42:38

is

2:42:38

and

2:42:39

this

2:42:39

is

2:42:39

what

2:42:39

having

2:42:40

to

2:42:40

live

2:42:40

there

2:42:40

is

2:42:40

like

2:42:41

you

2:42:41

can

2:42:41

go

2:42:41

to

2:42:41

somewhere

2:42:41

and

2:42:42

go

2:42:42

it

2:42:42

was

2:42:42

lovely

2:42:42

for

2:42:42

a

2:42:43

week

2:42:43

we

2:42:43

were

2:42:43

in

2:42:43

the

2:42:43

Congo

2:42:44

yeah

2:42:44

it

2:42:44

was

2:42:44

so

2:42:45

nice

2:42:45

but

2:42:45

you

2:42:46

go

2:42:46

what's

2:42:46

it

2:42:47

like

2:42:47

if

2:42:47

you

2:42:47

can't

2:42:47

leave

2:42:48

it's

2:42:48

literally

2:42:49

the

2:42:49

difference

2:42:49

between

2:42:50

going

2:42:51

camping

2:42:51

or

2:42:51

being

2:42:51

homeless

2:42:52

right

2:42:52

one

2:42:53

is

2:42:54

an

2:42:54

imposition

2:42:55

and

2:42:55

the

2:42:55

other

2:42:55

one

2:42:55

is

2:43:05

putting

2:43:05

a

2:43:06

selfie

2:43:06

or

2:43:06

getting

2:43:06

I don't

2:43:07

know what

2:43:08

they do

2:43:08

like

2:43:08

play-doh

2:43:09

fucking

2:43:09

jelly

2:43:09

new

2:43:10

video

2:43:10

games

2:43:10

that's

2:43:11

not

2:43:11

what

2:43:11

it's

2:43:11

like

2:43:11

look at

2:43:12

the

2:43:12

twitch

2:43:12

streamers

2:43:12

look at

2:43:13

most of

2:43:13

the

2:43:14

twitch

2:43:14

streamers

2:43:14

they have

2:43:15

got

2:43:15

they are

2:43:16

like

2:43:16

the

2:43:16

fucking

2:43:17

grunts

2:43:17

of

2:43:18

the

2:43:19

content

2:43:19

creation

2:43:20

they are

2:43:20

factories

2:43:21

of

2:43:21

content

2:43:22

eight

2:43:22

hours

2:43:23

a

2:43:23

day

2:43:23

five

2:43:23

days

2:43:24

a

2:43:24

week

2:43:24

just

2:43:24

straight

2:43:25

just

2:43:25

fucking

2:43:26

stream

2:43:26

of

2:43:26

consciousness

2:43:26

someone

2:43:27

put

2:43:27

something

2:43:27

in

2:43:27

the

2:43:28

chat

2:43:28

and

2:43:28

you

2:43:28

go

2:43:29

let's

2:43:29

watch

2:43:29

this

2:43:29

thing

2:43:30

let's

2:43:30

watch

2:43:30

that

2:43:30

thing

2:43:30

it's

2:43:31

like

2:43:31

it is

2:43:32

it's

2:43:33

not

2:43:33

if you

2:43:35

do

2:43:35

not

2:43:35

want

2:43:35

the

2:43:36

life

2:43:36

that

2:43:36

you

2:43:37

need

2:43:37

to

2:43:37

get

2:43:37

in

2:43:37

order

2:43:37

to

2:43:37

get

2:43:38

the

2:43:38

outcome

2:43:38

that

2:43:38

you're

2:43:38

looking

2:43:38

for

2:43:39

you

2:43:39

need

2:43:39

to

2:43:39

be

2:43:39

very

2:43:39

careful

2:43:40

about

2:43:40

because

2:43:41

the

2:43:41

reality

2:43:41

is

2:43:42

war

2:43:42

it's

2:43:42

not

2:43:43

call

2:43:43

of

2:43:43

duty

2:43:43

it's

2:43:43

the

2:43:44

same

2:43:44

thing

2:43:44

with

2:43:44

being

2:43:44

in

2:43:44

a

2:43:44

band

2:43:45

it's

2:43:45

like

2:43:45

I

2:43:46

love

2:43:46

the

2:43:46

idea

2:43:46

of

2:43:47

traveling

2:43:47

the

2:43:58

you've

2:43:59

managed

2:43:59

to

2:43:59

break

2:43:59

through

2:43:59

you're

2:44:00

going

2:44:00

to

2:44:00

have

2:44:00

to

2:44:00

spend

2:44:01

so

2:44:02

long

2:44:02

a

2:44:02

decade

2:44:03

learning

2:44:03

to

2:44:03

play

2:44:04

guitar

2:44:04

you're

2:44:05

going

2:44:05

to

2:44:05

have

2:44:05

to

2:44:05

write

2:44:05

songs

2:44:05

that

2:44:06

never

2:44:06

see

2:44:06

the

2:44:06

day

2:44:06

of

2:44:06

light

2:44:07

you're

2:44:08

going

2:44:08

to

2:44:08

have

2:44:08

to

2:44:08

do

2:44:08

all

2:44:09

of

2:44:09

this

2:44:09

stuff

2:44:10

and

2:44:10

you

2:44:10

have

2:44:10

no

2:44:11

idea

2:44:11

if

2:44:11

it's

2:44:11

going

2:44:11

to

2:44:11

work

2:44:12

there's

2:44:13

this

2:44:13

I

2:44:14

think

2:44:14

about

2:44:15

the

2:44:15

gap

2:44:16

from

2:44:16

where

2:44:17

people

2:44:17

are

2:44:17

in

2:44:17

a

2:44:17

place

2:44:17

that

2:44:18

they

2:44:18

don't

2:44:18

want

2:44:28

one

2:44:29

where

2:44:29

they

2:44:29

are

2:44:29

there's

2:44:30

a

2:44:30

point

2:44:30

where

2:44:30

they

2:44:30

they're

2:44:31

so

2:44:32

different

2:44:32

that

2:44:32

they

2:44:32

can't

2:44:32

resonate

2:44:33

with

2:44:33

their

2:44:33

old

2:44:33

set

2:44:33

of

2:44:33

friends

2:44:34

but

2:44:35

they're

2:44:35

not

2:44:35

yet

2:44:36

sufficiently

2:44:36

developed

2:44:37

that

2:44:37

they've

2:44:38

created

2:44:38

their

2:44:38

new

2:44:38

set

2:44:38

of

2:44:39

friends

2:44:39

and

2:44:41

there's

2:44:41

this

2:44:41

temptation

2:44:42

to

2:44:42

go

2:44:42

back

2:44:43

to

2:44:43

the

2:44:43

old

2:44:43

patterns

2:44:44

the

2:44:45

old

2:44:45

ways

2:44:45

of

2:44:45

thinking

2:44:45

and

2:44:47

this

2:44:47

I

2:44:47

did

2:44:47

this

2:44:47

live

2:44:48

show

2:44:48

in

2:44:49

London

2:44:49

last

2:44:50

year

2:44:50

my

2:44:50

first

2:44:50

big

2:44:51

headline

2:44:51

show

2:44:52

at

2:44:52

the

2:44:52

event

2:44:52

Tim

2:44:52

Apollo

2:44:53

in

2:44:53

London

2:44:53

it

2:44:53

was

2:44:53

pretty

2:44:53

cool

2:44:54

and

2:44:54

this

2:44:55

idea

2:44:55

I

2:44:55

think

2:44:55

was

2:44:56

one

2:44:56

that

2:44:56

really

2:44:56

resonated

2:44:57

with

2:44:57

a lot

2:44:57

of

2:44:57

people

2:44:57

because

2:44:58

everybody's

2:44:59

trying

2:45:00

to

2:45:00

grow

2:45:00

and

2:45:01

there

2:45:01

is

2:45:01

an

2:45:01

incentive

2:45:01

for

2:45:02

you

2:45:02

to

2:45:02

stay

2:45:03

in

2:45:03

the

2:45:03

same

2:45:03

place

2:45:03

because

2:45:04

not

2:45:04

that

2:45:05

many

2:45:05

people

2:45:05

grow

2:45:05

most

2:45:07

people

2:45:07

don't

2:45:07

change

2:45:07

they

2:45:08

make

2:45:08

little

2:45:08

changes

2:45:08

you know

2:45:09

they'll

2:45:10

cut

2:45:10

their hair

2:45:11

or

2:45:11

lose

2:45:11

five

2:45:12

pounds

2:45:12

or

2:45:13

you

2:45:13

know

2:45:13

they'll

2:45:13

switch

2:45:13

from

2:45:14

one

2:45:14

company

2:45:15

to

2:45:22

see

2:45:22

the

2:45:22

world

2:45:23

it's

2:45:24

pretty

2:45:24

rare

2:45:24

it's

2:45:24

not

2:45:25

that

2:45:25

common

2:45:25

and

2:45:25

we

2:45:25

are

2:45:26

such

2:45:26

mimetic

2:45:26

creatures

2:45:27

we're

2:45:28

so

2:45:28

shaped

2:45:29

by

2:45:30

the

2:45:30

people

2:45:30

around

2:45:30

us

2:45:31

that

2:45:31

we

2:45:31

can't

2:45:32

help

2:45:32

but

2:45:33

be

2:45:33

tempted

2:45:33

you know

2:45:34

you're

2:45:34

going to

2:45:34

have to

2:45:35

do

2:45:35

something

2:45:35

if

2:45:35

you

2:45:36

want

2:45:36

to

2:45:36

go

2:45:36

from

2:45:36

where

2:45:36

you

2:45:36

are

2:45:37

to

2:45:37

where

2:45:37

you

2:45:37

want

2:45:37

to

2:45:37

be

2:45:37

you

2:45:37

to

2:45:38

do

2:45:38

something

2:45:38

that

2:45:39

makes

2:45:39

you

2:45:39

more

2:45:39

different

2:45:40

more

2:45:40

weird

2:45:41

more

2:45:41

easy

2:45:41

to

2:45:41

be

2:45:41

mocked

2:45:42

especially

2:45:42

if

2:45:52

people

2:45:52

on

2:45:52

the

2:45:52

internet

2:45:53

for

2:45:53

it's

2:45:54

fucking

2:45:54

weird

2:45:54

that's

2:45:55

stupid

2:45:55

that's

2:45:55

not

2:45:56

going

2:45:56

to

2:45:56

work

2:45:56

why

2:45:56

are

2:45:56

you

2:45:56

going

2:45:57

to

2:45:57

do

2:45:57

that

2:45:57

so

2:45:57

if

2:45:57

you

2:45:58

don't

2:45:58

have

2:45:58

that

2:45:58

level

2:45:58

of

2:45:58

enthusiasm

2:45:59

there

2:45:59

is

2:45:59

no

2:46:00

support

2:46:00

around

2:46:00

you

2:46:01

to

2:46:01

tell

2:46:02

you

2:46:02

that

2:46:02

the

2:46:02

thing

2:46:02

you're

2:46:02

trying

2:46:03

to

2:46:03

do

2:46:03

why

2:46:05

are

2:46:06

you

2:46:06

training

2:46:06

this

2:46:06

taekwondo

2:46:07

bullshit

2:46:07

six

2:46:09

nights

2:46:09

a

2:46:09

week

2:46:09

why

2:46:10

are

2:46:10

you

2:46:10

coaching

2:46:10

all

2:46:10

of

2:46:10

these

2:46:11

moms

2:46:11

and

2:46:12

all

2:46:12

of

2:46:12

these

2:46:12

like

2:46:12

old

2:46:12

guys

2:46:13

and

2:46:13

how

2:46:13

to

2:46:13

tai

2:46:13

chi

2:46:14

or

2:46:14

whatever

2:46:14

why

2:46:15

are

2:46:15

you

2:46:15

doing

2:46:15

that

2:46:15

well

2:46:17

because

2:46:17

maybe

2:46:17

I'm

2:46:18

sort

2:46:18

of

2:46:18

pulled

2:46:18

to

2:46:19

it

2:46:19

and

2:46:19

there

2:46:19

is

2:46:19

this

2:46:20

temptation

2:46:21

to

2:46:21

go back

2:46:22

to

2:46:22

your

2:46:22

old

2:46:22

ways

2:46:23

of

2:46:23

thinking

2:46:23

go

2:46:24

back

2:46:24

to

2:46:25

the

2:46:25

road

2:46:25

that

2:46:26

you

2:46:26

already

2:46:26

know

2:46:26

how

2:46:27

it's

2:46:27

going

2:46:27

to

2:46:27

end

2:46:27

and

2:46:28

I

2:46:29

get

2:46:30

the

2:46:30

sense

2:46:30

that

2:46:31

this

2:46:31

is

2:46:31

not

2:46:31

a

2:46:32

bug

2:46:32

it

2:46:33

is

2:46:33

a

2:46:33

feature

2:46:34

it's

2:46:35

a

2:46:35

part

2:46:35

of

2:46:36

moving

2:46:36

from

2:46:42

live

2:46:42

through

2:46:43

this

2:46:43

lonely

2:46:43

chapter

2:46:43

and

2:46:44

you

2:46:44

look

2:46:44

at

2:46:44

it

2:46:44

and

2:46:44

you

2:46:44

go

2:46:44

well

2:46:45

the

2:46:45

Rocky

2:46:45

montage

2:46:46

was

2:46:46

3.5

2:46:47

minutes

2:46:47

for me

2:46:48

it's

2:46:48

been

2:46:48

five

2:46:48

years

2:46:49

where's

2:46:49

the championship

2:46:50

ring

2:46:51

you know

2:46:51

what I mean

2:46:51

I haven't won

2:46:52

the fight

2:46:52

where's

2:46:52

Apollo

2:46:53

Creed

2:46:53

none

2:46:53

of this

2:46:54

stuff

2:46:54

happened

2:46:54

the

2:46:55

thing

2:46:55

that

2:46:56

I

2:46:56

wish

2:46:57

more

2:46:57

stories

2:46:58

talked

2:46:58

about

2:46:58

if you

2:47:00

watch it

2:47:00

in the

2:47:00

movies

2:47:01

yeah

2:47:01

sure

2:47:02

there's

2:47:02

ups and

2:47:03

downs

2:47:03

in the

2:47:03

journey

2:47:03

of

2:47:04

the

2:47:04

athlete

2:47:05

that's

2:47:05

going

2:47:05

to

2:47:06

change

2:47:12

it's

2:47:12

one

2:47:12

straight

2:47:13

shot

2:47:13

typically

2:47:14

and

2:47:14

there'll

2:47:15

be

2:47:15

some

2:47:15

challenges

2:47:15

but

2:47:16

he'll

2:47:16

get

2:47:16

there

2:47:16

his

2:47:17

self

2:47:17

belief

2:47:17

never

2:47:17

wavers

2:47:17

I don't

2:47:18

think

2:47:19

that

2:47:19

that's

2:47:19

what

2:47:20

the

2:47:20

experience

2:47:20

of doing

2:47:21

personal

2:47:21

growth

2:47:21

is like

2:47:22

at all

2:47:23

in my

2:47:24

experience

2:47:24

it's

2:47:24

you're

2:47:26

just

2:47:26

swimming

2:47:27

in

2:47:28

uncertainty

2:47:29

and

2:47:30

and fear

2:47:31

and

2:47:32

a lack

2:47:33

of belief

2:47:33

that it's

2:47:33

even going

2:47:34

to happen

2:47:34

you don't

2:47:34

even have

2:47:34

the promise

2:47:35

of glory

2:47:36

on the

2:47:37

other side

2:47:37

of it

2:47:37

I don't

2:47:37

even know

2:47:38

if this

2:47:38

is going

2:47:38

to be

2:47:39

worth

2:47:39

it

2:47:39

why am I

2:47:44

eating

2:47:45

meat

2:47:45

and

2:47:45

fruit

2:47:45

does

2:47:45

this

2:47:45

even

2:47:46

work

2:47:46

like

2:47:46

you're

2:47:47

doing

2:47:47

all of

2:47:47

this

2:47:48

stuff

2:47:48

trying

2:47:48

scrabbling

2:47:49

like a

2:47:49

guy

2:47:49

in a

2:47:50

fucking

2:47:50

well

2:47:50

trying

2:47:50

to

2:47:51

find

2:47:51

a

2:47:51

hand

2:47:51

hold

2:47:51

and

2:47:52

if

2:47:52

you

2:47:52

don't

2:47:52

have

2:47:52

a

2:47:52

good

2:47:52

community

2:47:53

of

2:47:53

people

2:47:53

that

2:47:53

are

2:47:53

also

2:47:54

doing

2:47:54

that

2:47:54

you're

2:47:54

on

2:47:54

your

2:47:55

own

2:47:55

yeah

2:47:56

yeah

2:47:56

and

2:47:57

this

2:47:57

is

2:47:57

most

2:47:57

people

2:47:58

I

2:47:58

think

2:47:59

most

2:47:59

people's

2:47:59

experience

2:48:00

because

2:48:00

if

2:48:01

most

2:48:01

people

2:48:01

don't

2:48:02

change

2:48:02

you

2:48:03

are

2:48:03

going

2:48:03

to

2:48:03

be

2:48:03

an

2:48:03

outlier

2:48:04

if

2:48:04

you're

2:48:04

somebody

2:48:04

who

2:48:04

does

2:48:05

change

2:48:05

I

2:48:06

think

2:48:06

about

2:48:06

personal

2:48:08

growth

2:48:08

kind

2:48:08

of

2:48:09

like

2:48:09

a

2:48:09

rocket

2:48:10

ship

2:48:10

taking

2:48:10

off

2:48:11

and

2:48:11

as

2:48:12

you

2:48:12

take

2:48:13

off

2:48:13

you've

2:48:13

got a

2:48:13

particular

2:48:13

velocity

2:48:14

that

2:48:15

you're

2:48:15

moving

2:48:15

at

2:48:15

and

2:48:16

what

2:48:16

you

2:48:16

want

2:48:16

is

2:48:16

to

2:48:16

find

2:48:16

other

2:48:17

people

2:48:17

moving

2:48:17

at

2:48:18

the

2:48:18

same

2:48:18

velocity

2:48:18

as

2:48:18

you

2:48:19

but

2:48:19

the

2:48:19

quicker

2:48:20

that

2:48:20

you

2:48:20

move

2:48:20

the

2:48:21

fewer

2:48:21

people

2:48:21

are

2:48:21

going

2:48:21

to

2:48:21

be

2:48:22

like

2:48:22

you

2:48:22

right

2:48:23

so

2:48:23

some

2:48:23

people

2:48:23

be

2:48:24

ahead

2:48:24

of

2:48:24

you

2:48:24

and

2:48:25

you're

2:48:25

in

2:48:25

this

2:48:25

lonely

2:48:25

chapter

2:48:26

and

2:48:26

then

2:48:26

you

2:48:26

catch

2:48:26

up

2:48:26

to

2:48:26

them

2:48:27

and

2:48:27

then

2:48:28

oh

2:48:29

no

2:48:29

and

2:48:30

this

2:48:30

isn't

2:48:30

you know

2:48:31

some

2:48:31

comment

2:48:31

on

2:48:31

people

2:48:32

that

2:48:32

work

2:48:33

on

2:48:33

themselves

2:48:33

like

2:48:34

morally

2:48:35

better

2:48:35

or

2:48:35

worse

2:48:35

than

2:48:36

anybody

2:48:36

else

2:48:36

but

2:48:37

it's

2:48:37

just

2:48:37

a

2:48:37

stark

2:48:38

sort

2:48:38

of

2:48:38

fact

2:48:39

about

2:48:39

you

2:48:40

talk

2:48:41

to

2:48:41

people

2:48:41

and

2:48:41

you

2:48:42

resonate

2:48:42

with

2:48:42

people

2:48:42

that

2:48:42

are

2:48:42

at

2:48:43

the

2:48:43

same

2:48:43

level

2:48:43

of

2:48:43

life

2:48:43

as

2:48:44

you

2:48:44

are

2:48:44

and

2:48:45

that

2:48:45

kind

2:48:54

birds

2:48:54

of

2:48:54

a

2:48:54

feather

2:48:54

right

2:48:55

and

2:48:56

you

2:48:57

know

2:48:57

one

2:48:57

of

2:48:57

the

2:48:57

I

2:48:58

guess

2:48:58

difficult

2:48:58

realizations

2:48:59

of

2:48:59

people

2:49:00

who

2:49:01

want

2:49:01

to

2:49:01

change

2:49:01

their

2:49:01

life

2:49:02

is

2:49:02

that

2:49:02

if

2:49:03

you

2:49:03

do

2:49:04

it

2:49:04

well

2:49:04

you

2:49:05

might

2:49:05

have

2:49:05

to

2:49:06

go

2:49:06

through

2:49:06

a

2:49:06

period

2:49:06

where

2:49:07

you

2:49:07

let

2:49:07

go

2:49:07

of

2:49:07

all

2:49:08

of

2:49:08

your

2:49:08

friends

2:49:08

but

2:49:09

the

2:49:09

really

2:49:09

bad

2:49:09

realization

2:49:10

is

2:49:10

if

2:49:10

you

2:49:10

do

2:49:11

it

2:49:11

really

2:49:11

well

2:49:11

you

2:49:12

might

2:49:12

have

2:49:12

to

2:49:12

do

2:49:12

that

2:49:13

multiple

2:49:13

times

2:49:13

throughout

2:49:13

your

2:49:14

life

2:49:14

you

2:49:15

find

2:49:15

a

2:49:15

group

2:49:15

of

2:49:15

people

2:49:16

finally

2:49:16

I've

2:49:16

landed

2:49:17

after

2:49:17

oh

2:49:17

that

2:49:17

period

2:49:18

where I

2:49:18

was

2:49:18

on my

2:49:19

own

2:49:19

and I

2:49:19

didn't

2:49:20

really

2:49:20

understand

2:49:20

oh

2:49:21

fuck

2:49:22

I'm

2:49:22

still

2:49:23

going

2:49:23

I've

2:49:23

over

2:49:24

and

2:49:24

I

2:49:25

now

2:49:25

need

2:49:25

you

2:49:25

mean

2:49:26

I

2:49:26

got

2:49:26

to

2:49:26

do

2:49:26

it

2:49:26

again

2:49:26

I've

2:49:27

got

2:49:27

to

2:49:28

do

2:49:28

it

2:49:28

again

2:49:28

I

2:49:29

just

2:49:29

thought

2:49:29

that

2:49:30

I'd

2:49:30

found

2:49:30

my

2:49:30

group

2:49:31

and

2:49:31

I've

2:49:31

got

2:49:32

to

2:49:32

do

2:49:32

it

2:49:32

again

2:49:32

this

2:49:33

lonely

2:49:33

chapter

2:49:33

thing

2:49:34

is

2:49:43

back

2:49:43

to

2:49:43

what

2:49:43

I

2:49:44

know

2:49:44

and

2:49:45

it's

2:49:46

why

2:49:46

you

2:49:47

know

2:49:47

America

2:49:48

for all

2:49:49

that

2:49:49

it's

2:49:49

a

2:49:49

horrible

2:49:50

cis

2:49:51

hetero

2:49:51

patriarchal

2:49:52

superstructure

2:49:52

that's

2:49:53

misogynistically

2:49:53

keeping

2:49:54

everybody

2:49:54

down

2:49:54

it's

2:49:55

an

2:49:55

enthusiastic

2:49:56

and

2:49:56

sort

2:49:57

of

2:49:57

excitable

2:49:57

country

2:49:58

and

2:49:59

you

2:50:01

guys

2:50:01

have

2:50:01

kind

2:50:01

of

2:50:01

got

2:50:01

permanent

2:50:02

first line

2:50:02

cocaine

2:50:03

energy

2:50:03

about

2:50:03

everything

2:50:04

and

2:50:06

for

2:50:07

me

2:50:07

it

2:50:09

seems

2:50:09

to be

2:50:09

a

2:50:10

real

2:50:10

enthusing

2:50:11

environment

2:50:12

encourages

2:50:13

me

2:50:13

to

2:50:13

do

2:50:13

things

2:50:13

helps

2:50:14

me

2:50:14

to

2:50:14

take

2:50:14

risks

2:50:14

either

2:50:15

that

2:50:15

or

2:50:15

get

2:50:15

kicked

2:50:15

in

2:50:15

the

2:50:16

head

2:50:16

a lot

2:50:16

and

2:50:17

I

2:50:18

just

2:50:18

love

2:50:18

it

2:50:18

I

2:50:18

love

2:50:19

the

2:50:19

fact

2:50:19

that

2:50:19

it

2:50:19

makes

2:50:20

me

2:50:20

feel

2:50:20

confident

2:50:21

in

2:50:22

doing

2:50:22

difficult

2:50:23

things

2:50:23

and

2:50:24

yeah

2:50:25

I

2:50:25

wish

2:50:25

that

2:50:25

more

2:50:26

people

2:50:26

had

2:50:27

that

2:50:27

community

2:50:28

around

2:50:28

them

2:50:28

I

2:50:29

think

2:50:29

largely

2:50:29

Reddit

2:50:29

is

2:50:30

just

2:50:30

a

2:50:31

website

2:50:32

filled

2:50:32

with

2:50:32

people

2:50:32

who

2:50:33

couldn't

2:50:33

find

2:50:33

other

2:50:33

people

2:50:34

to

2:50:34

talk

2:50:34

about

2:50:34

their

2:50:34

niche

2:50:35

in

2:50:35

their

2:50:35

hometown

2:50:36

like

2:50:36

this

2:50:37

particular

2:50:37

Warhammer

2:50:38

40k

2:50:39

version

2:50:40

or

2:50:40

whatever

2:50:40

but

2:50:42

yeah

2:50:42

it's

2:50:43

difficult

2:50:43

and when

2:50:44

you get

2:50:44

to the

2:50:44

stage

2:50:44

where

2:50:45

you're

2:50:46

faced

2:50:46

with

2:50:46

some

2:50:46

personal

2:50:47

growth

2:50:47

decision

2:50:47

you're

2:50:48

always

2:50:48

going to

2:50:49

have to

2:50:49

make

2:50:49

this

2:50:49

value

2:50:49

exchange

2:50:50

of

2:50:50

do

2:50:50

I

2:50:50

want

2:50:51

to

2:50:51

move

2:50:52

forward

2:50:52

on

2:50:52

my

2:50:52

own

2:50:53

or

2:50:53

do

2:50:53

I

2:50:53

want

2:50:53

to

2:50:53

go

2:50:53

back

2:50:54

with

2:50:54

my

2:50:54

friends

2:50:54

it's

2:50:55

a

2:50:55

good

2:50:55

point

2:50:55

man

2:50:55

Chris

2:50:56

always

2:50:58

great

2:50:58

to

2:50:58

talk

2:50:58

to

2:50:58

you

2:50:58

brother

2:50:58

really

2:50:59

appreciate

2:50:59

your

2:50:59

insight

2:51:00

you're

2:51:00

a

2:51:00

very

2:51:00

brilliant

2:51:01

guy

2:51:01

and

2:51:01

you're

2:51:01

always

2:51:02

you're

2:51:03

fun

2:51:03

fun

2:51:03

to

2:51:04

talk

2:51:04

to

2:51:04

I

2:51:04

appreciate

2:51:04

you

2:51:04

too

2:51:05

man

2:51:05

thanks

2:51:05

for

2:51:06

having

2:51:06

the

2:51:07

courage

2:51:08

to

2:51:08

put

2:51:08

all

2:51:08

your

2:51:08

thoughts

2:51:08

out

2:51:09

there

2:51:09

and

2:51:09

I

2:51:10

love

2:51:10

what

2:51:10

you

2:51:10

do

2:51:10

I

2:51:11

love

2:51:11

your

2:51:11

show

2:51:11

and

2:51:12

you're

2:51:13

awesome

2:51:13

man

2:51:14

you're

2:51:14

awesome

2:51:14

too

2:51:15

every

2:51:16

time

2:51:16

that

2:51:16

you

2:51:16

bring

2:51:16

me

2:51:17

on

2:51:17

every

2:51:17

time

2:51:17

that

2:51:17

we

2:51:17

get

2:51:17

to

2:51:17

speak

2:51:18

I

2:51:18

really

2:51:18

appreciate

2:51:18

it

2:51:19

so

2:51:19

thank you

2:51:20

my

2:51:20

pleasure

2:51:20

bye everybody