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Hello Joe Rogan. What the fuck's happening? Everything. How are you enjoying my country? I'm loving your country, yeah. It was good, it's good to be back. Yeah, you were here, you did another one of those wild backcountry elk hunts, which you haven't been able to do because of COVID for three years? Four years. Four years. Yep. Wow. And five years since the last podcast. Did you document the whole thing like you did the last time in your internet stories? I did, yeah. Yeah, I tried to capture as much as I could. Sometimes it's hard because you're stuck in the moment. So the last thing you want is like a phone in your face, right? Yeah, it does fuck with it, right? Yeah, so I couldn't capture it all but I tried to at least mention everything that I was going through but there was like one stage I just felt like I was in the war and I actually slipped between two fallen down trees and I nearly broke my legs like straight across the front of my shins. Oh shit. And it's like I didn't capture it and I'm sort of hurting so you don't get to see the whole story but I reckon I at least give the people 80% of the story, you know. What happened when you almost broke your legs? Well I was fucking rooted for starters like stuff like this is day 26 or something like that. What does rooted mean to your people? You didn't know what it means, right? Yeah, just guessing. Rooted means really exhausted. Oh, okay. Like just, yeah, fucked, you know? Right. And I was coming back in the dark, you know, you're trying to, you know, conserve everything as you're going so you're trying to use your headlight as less as possible as well like you're out there for a month. So a lot of the times your headlight, your torch is turned right down if it's on at all. So it's turned right down and I'm coming back down the mountain to camp. Pretty much stepped on one bit of deadfall like a big fallen pine tree and then slipped off it and then there was another pine tree only like a foot apart. So I went between the two of them and all my body weight come over the top of it. And then yeah, like I just remember, I like least bruised the bones cause it was hard to walk, you know? Oh boy. But it's like at that point, yeah, you feel like the whole world's against you, right? Really, really tough trip. Like and I think a lot of the over the counter guys went through that this year. It was a really difficult year for El. Was that because of the heavy snowfall? So I think because of win or kill for one. And then a lot of the other states are not doing any over the counter anymore. So that pushed more people in the Colorado and then Colorado shut down some units and limited units because of the winner kill. So there was a lot of hunters jammed in the areas. I think the bulls didn't come down. So I think a combination of a lot of things. Colorado is just reintroduce wolves, which is just, it's such a shell game because when there's like stipulations to reintroduce wolves, like we're now let's talked about this before, like they reintroduce wolves and then the idea is when the wolves get to be a certain population, then they will allow hunting. But then the wildlife protection groups come in and they Sue to make sure that you don't open up wolf hunting. So then they only can issue depredation permits to ranchers and P you know, people don't like the idea of hunting wolves and I get that, but you shouldn't also like the idea of rampant wolf populations that are invading into people's communities and eating their dogs and threatening children. Like the reason why big bad wolf and little red riding hood and all that shit, there was a story cause they used to eat kids. What was happening? Yeah, they ate people for a long fuck a time until people got wise and said, you know, we should probably kill these fucking things. And that's what they did for the longest time. And then the greenies got in like we need to bring them off the back. And it's generally people that have zero experience with real wildlife predators. There should be a balance, you know, there should be grizzly bears. It should be mountain lions. It's not like anybody wants to eradicate those things, but reintroducing wolves, especially what they did with Montana, they took those big ass Canadian wolves and brought them down. Yeah. Well like, you know, may I like, I do think there needs to be a balance and I think people hunters are part of that balance as well, you know? Yeah. Um, and I think a big part of that, you know, is keeping everything in check, you know? So if the, if the elk populations too big, then there should be more tags. Like it's a really good system over here in that sense in America. And then if there's a winner kill, like there just has been in this last season, then yeah, limit the tags and things like that. So cause I've been on a few hunts now where you don't feel comfortable shooting an elk because you're not seeing any. So it's just like she, I actually don't want to shoot an elk here. It doesn't feel right. Doesn't seem like there's enough elk here for me to be shooting them. And I experienced that in a few areas this trip. And I remember, um, the last time I hunted, so four years ago and Kimmy, my wife actually said it to me, we, I think we hunted for 14 days and we hadn't seen a bull elk and she, she's like, even if one steps up at this point, I'm not shooting it cause it doesn't feel right. You know, and it's true, but there could be lots of elk in that area another time of the year, but hunting season starts, hunters go in and sort of pushes them out. So it's a little bit hard to say, but yeah, you don't feel right. You know, you want to shoot something that's in a good, healthy population. And now considering the fact that you are getting these over the counter tags, how do you know what units to pick? You don't, you're just guessing. Yeah. Yeah. So are you going online and doing any research? Yeah. Lots of research. Yeah. Hunting full super handy and stuff like that. Talk to the guys pretty frequent before coming up to a trip and then sort of just leaning on the hunting community a little bit, you know, and you've got guys and this is what happened this trip cause I'm starting from fresh again. It's been four years. The spots that I used to hunt elk in aren't like that anymore or they're limited entry now. So, and I didn't draw. So I am starting from the, you know, from scratch from the draw board. And then, so I sort of leaned on the hunting community a little bit and I had a few guys reach out. Well, I had actually a bunch of people reach out, which was really nice. And you know, try this spot, you know, I hunted here last year. You're welcome to join me in this camp. So I had a lot of that, which was really nice. But even those guys don't know, you know, like you think you've got an animal figured out, like fuck, think again, you know, like, and that's, I think that's why I love bow hunting so much. And it's so, I've constantly got a passion for it because you never actually fully work it out. Like the, as soon as you start thinking you've got something worked out, you're fucked. Like they'll change it up on you. And that happens to me every year and just about every species, you know, so you can go in there with as much knowledge as you like. And obviously that helps, but at the end of the day, that's why it's so good. So appealing. Well, you like a crazy hard hunt, but these are nuts. The ones that you go on are really nuts. Like the one that you did last four years ago that you documented where you had that close encounter with a grizzly bear and you had a bad pistol. Yeah. Oh shit. Yeah. That was a terrifying encounter. The video of you with your gun pointed out where you can clearly see that the rounds not chambered because it does, it literally doesn't fit in there. It wasn't a good situation. Yeah. It's, it's, I've sort of fucked myself because I, I want to go to a place where there's just elk running around everywhere and stuff like that. But because I've done these hard hunts now, it's like, I can't go backwards. Like, and I'm not, I'm not lining myself up for a disastrous hunt, but like, I want it to be that tough. You know, like I don't want to go in on the first day and kill one. The trip's done. What would you do if you walked in and you saw a three 50 bull on the first day? I'd still shoot it. I would. You have to. Well, you should never, that's the old saying, right? You should never pass up on a bull on the first day that you would kill him. I don't agree with that. I know. No, I don't. Why is that? Because what are you, what are you in it for? Well, you're in it to kill a bull. Yeah. There's also luck. Yeah. But I can't spit on luck. Yeah. I think like day 27 broke me on this last trip. When I say broke me, it just, I just got to the point where I was completely satisfied. So I still didn't stop hunting. I was still going to hunt to the very last day of season, which was the 30th. But you accepted your fate. But I accepted it. And that's what I actually went out there for, you know, and I started thinking about, I'm not really here to kill a bull. Like that's what's pushing me and getting me to that point. But I'm here for the whole package, right? And like, like your time poor, right? Like you don't have a lot of time and there's a lot of hunters that don't have a lot of time. Whereas I come over from Australia and I'm just like, I've got 30 days. Right. So, you know, and that's why I don't want to kill on day one or day two. I would, like you said, if something stepped up, I would, but it's not so much about the kill. It's that whole package, you know, and a, and a, and a big part of that package is breaking my own self down and getting past that point, you know, and I did, I put a video up and I was like, I fucking cried, you know, and it's just like, and that's hard to show the people, but I do want to show the people that it's just not about the kill and it is hard and it's not like all, there's an animal I stalked that I showed at the kill till I got the meat, you know? Right. You're going, you're going on like a vision quest. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. You're trying to find out something about yourself. Yeah. I've got no interest in clone Mount Everest and I've said this many times before, but if there's a fucking animal at the top of it, I'll do it. I'll, I'll do it, you know, and I'll push myself to that limit. You know, I don't get the Mount Everest thing. Yeah. I've been, I've been offered to go with people multiple times. I'm like, yeah, you can have a good time up there. It doesn't look like a lot of, is the reason why there's no houses up there. There's like one selfie at the top and then you're coming back down. Yeah. I mean, I understand that it's people enjoy doing things that are very difficult to do and I fully support them doing it. I just don't have any interest in it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just not, not my thing. Yeah. It doesn't float your boat. No, not at all. And if I had 28 days to do what you do, I don't know if I'd do that. Cause what, but I guess what you're doing is, I mean you hunt so much in Australia and Australia is so game rich because there's so many invasive species in Australia. There's deer everywhere. There's stags everywhere. You have so many pigs. It's just like, it's a great place to get your meat. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Please. There's 27 hundred species in Australia and there's like one or two of them that actually need a tag and that's it. And then, and, and open season on everything, you know, so there's, we don't have to wait for September to roll around to go and get some meat or have a Han or something like that. It is, it's frigging awesome. But we don't have the system that you have in America either, which is, and it's crazy that Australia doesn't have it because these animals are a resource and they're not, they're not treated as a resource at the moment. We've just fully labeled them as feral animals and then it sort of just gives everyone the right just to kill them in any way possible. And that, so they, they're chopper shooting them. Well, they have been for the last few years. They just go around aerial culling them and they just shoot them and leave them there and the meat just rots on the ground. Do they do that just to reduce population, to reduce the possibility of diseases? Well, there's no diseases in any of our red meat animals that can be passed on the humans. So it's not so much for disease. There is a threat of foot rot, which they have in some parts of Asia. But basically Australia is just saying, let's eradicate them. They want zero of these animals. Oh God. Yeah. Yeah. And then, so they shoot thousands and thousands of deer, thousands of them. And just like, this is just in a month they'll shoot thousands of them and just leave them rot on the ground. Do they do it because they think they're a nuisance? They do. Yeah. Yeah. But they're delicious. They are delicious. And then no more of a nuisance than cattle or sheep. Right. You know, if they're talking about erosion and stuff like that, well like, or introduced species, cattle and sheep introduced species. Yeah. Shit. We've introduced species to some places, you know, are they talking about it because of erosion? Like what are they saying? A big part of it's erosion. Yeah. Then damage to like trees and fences and stuff like that. And, and that's true to a certain degree, but yeah. But the benefit of the resource. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. Especially if you want really healthy meat, it's just everywhere. Especially if there's people starving. Yeah. This just shot and left. It doesn't make sense. That's so crazy. It feels like we're living in the bloody stone age when they do that. Yeah. It's just cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yeah. It's so stupid. It just, I don't understand why people would accept that. Yeah. And as a hunter, you like, I get to see these animals up close, you know, and you realize that they are beautiful animal and have a lot of respect for them. And then, so you see, when you say that happening, it is pretty upsetting. Yeah. That's a bummer. So have you been there when they've helicopter shot them? Yeah. Yeah. So you're out hunting and you just see the gunshots going off. Yeah. Oh God. There's a guy, a couple of guys in Australia that just filmed it. They're hunting on private property and the helicopter comes over and just like shooting right behind them. And yeah. And they don't care that you're there. Nope. They don't care. Well, they don't know. Wow. Yeah. That's a bummer. Yeah, it is a bummer. Yeah. It's pretty sad. Why, why do they have that attitude about it? Why don't because they're just labeled and pushed as a feral nuisance animal and that's it, you know, and there's like, it's, we don't have the same system as you do here where it's like all the hunters that I meet here full cherish the animal and the meat, you know, and they collect it all, you know, and it's not about like, Oh, you know, just I'll leave that part. It's like, how much more meat can we get off it? Can we trim a little bit more off the bone? You know? And even I'm like that, I can't take the meat home. I always donate it, whatever animal that I harvest here, but it is, it's like, how much more can I get off it? What else can I take? You know, and it's because so much passion and everything goes into it. Why don't they let me bring meat back to Australia? Uh, customs is really strict in Australia and because there's no diseases in our red meat, I think they're really, really strict that they don't want that. Well, how are you going to get a disease from a dead animal with frozen meat? I don't know. More stupidity. Yeah. That's so stupid. I've heard that they do that with Africa. If you bring an African animal back to the United States, you can't bring the meat back. Okay. Is that true? Well, cause I've never brought me back into America. Yeah. I tried to take it into Australia, but I know that it's a no go. So like I said, I've just always donated it. But I think you can bring back meat from Australia. You guys probably can, because yeah, it's so clean. I know you can from New Zealand. Yeah. So we can bring a certain amount into Australia from New Zealand, but it has to be commercially processed and packaged. So, which isn't a bad thing still, but look, there's that many people with their hand up to take me. It's like nothing goes to waste when we harvest it. The best meat. Oh, it's amazing. Yeah. Once, and once you get a taste for it and like, I don't even taste the gaminess to any meat anymore cause that's pretty much all we eat at home. But once you've eaten game meat and then you go and buy a store meat and eat it, it's the blandest shit going. I don't understand that term gamey. I mean, I think when people say gamey meat and they're thinking about that, they're thinking about someone who has handled meat incorrectly. That's spot on. Yeah. They let it sit out in the sun. They didn't cool the meat off quickly enough. They didn't hang it. They did something wrong. It's not prepared correctly. Yeah. It has to be something wrong. Unless you're eating something like a bear that's been eating a rotten animal or I've heard people catch a, they've eaten bear that had been eating nothing but fish and they're nasty. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. It does make sense. Yeah. Cause like everyone's always said, like, like the tar in New Zealand, ah, it's a smelly goat, you know, or the pronghorn here in America. Right. Cause I do that smell to them. But once it's prepared, prepared correctly, it's delicious. I think the thing about the pronghorn too is that you hunt them in the summer and it's very hot and a lot of times people are dragging the carcass across the sage, you know, and they just don't take care of it. Whereas it's just being quick with it, you know, like field dress it straight away. Like even before photos you can knock the stomach out and stuff like that and then set it up, right. Get it as cool as possible cause you've only got to cool the temperature of the animal from what it was when it, when you harvested it and then I believe it can up or down about 10 degrees and it's still fine, you know, so it's just keeping it under that range. Yeah. And somehow or another just getting it to ice quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Having ice ready, having a cooler ready. Yeah. You know, what do you do in terms of, do you bring a cooler with you when you do these 28 day trips? Cause I know you actually cut a fucking toothbrush in half to save weight. So I know you do a lot of radical shit to save weight. Well you have to write every big counts including the bow and the accessories on it, you know, so I've, I'm shooting just carbon bows for the last 10, 15 years now because that bow, a lot of the times ends up on your backpack. So it's like, what's the use of cutting a toothbrush down to a quarter, you know, and you've got like toothpaste for the Russia tape like three times in the month. Like you do all that shit and then you carry a big heavy bow, you know, right. Unless you need a heavy bow to shoot real well. Like obviously, you know, you don't want to step on your own feet like that. But um, once I kill that, that's it, you're done. You're hiking the animal out cause you can't get a cooler back there. Right. You know, and if you had a cooler in your truck at the trailhead and you're back there for 30 days, there's no ice back there anyway. Or someone's going to steal it. Yeah. Been pretty lucky at trailheads here in America. I've never had anything like that happen, but well, most people are respectful. Yeah. But it just takes that one. It takes the one dickhead. Yeah. And there are dickheads. There is. Yeah. So look, the second I kill, I'm out of there. And if I'm way back, I usually try and I've carried them out before I've had a buddy come in and carried them out. Um, I've had a guy with pack horses ready on, on call. So you kill, he comes in and you get it out. Um, or this trip I had a bunch of friends and guys that sort of were telling me spots to hunt and they were pretty much on call. And then yeah, I, I sent him a photo. I dropped that bull, had the bull down, sent him a photo. They're like, we're two and a half hours from the trailhead. We're on our way now. And then yeah, by the time I field dressed it and prepped it, they rocked up with backpacks and then yeah, three of us carried it off. That's nice. Yeah. You give them the meat. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. I donated to a couple of families that helped me. That's nice. Now this trip. So did you stay in the same place for 28 days? I ended up moving. So, um, Kimmy and my wife come with me for the first 15 days and it was hell like day one or day two, we seen two nice bulls that would leave in the area and then we never seen a bull in there again for 15 days. And um, she actually had a bit of elevation sickness. We'll climb it up one in the morning and she started feeling sick and we get all like we're way out there and we get way back and we're climbing up this mountain and a gunshot goes like straight off in front of us cause um, Colorado's got muzzle loader at the same time. And that was about the point that she's like, look, book me a flight. I'm going to go home. It was one of the kids birthdays. So then she went home and we're already doing pretty radical stuff like back there. And then I was like, right, fuck it. Now when you say a gunshot went off straight in front of us, like how far in front of you? A hundred yards. Was it shooting in your direction? No, it was shooting to the side, but still like that shit happens, right? Oh yeah. Yeah. People just shoot into like movement. Yeah. But it was more to the point of actually wasn't about our safety at that point. It was more about, oh, the hunting's not good. Let's, let's shoot, you know? And um, yeah, so she ended up going home and then I was like, all right, I'm going to go pretty radical now and just fucking on a massive mission. The muzzle loader thing to me is so strange at the same time. Or are you talking about just shooting a muscle all the time? I get at the same time. It's weird because why would you have a rifle and bow season? Both seasons quiet. That doesn't make sense. But the muzzle loader thing in general, all it's going to do is prevent you from getting a good second shot because there's muzzle loaders that you can shoot that are good to hundreds of yards. So it's like you're not limiting the effectiveness unless you're saying that you have to shoot iron sights and then aren't you limiting the ethical shots that you can take? You probably are. But how do you, how do you argue that? And then traditional bow hunting or even bow hunting? Oh yeah. You know, cause it does take time to get it on. I'm not saying it should be illegal. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just saying like, what are you doing? I would rather use an actual rifle. Yeah. And just like a really cited in rifle with a great scope and you know, a good round, like a real rifle. I met a guy with a crossbow this year, not while I was hunting. It was after the hunt was done and he said he's, he had a scope on his crossbow and he said it's accurate out to 140 yards. Wow. As in like shooting a golf ball at 140 yards. Well, if you got to rest, that's the thing about a crossbow. You could sit on a log. That's nuts. Like how much further can we go with this stuff? You know? Yeah. That's a weird thing. I heard someone describe it like a trans men or trans women competing against biological women. If you call yourself an Archer, someone described it that way. I think that's pretty accurate. And then the traditional bow hunters are probably saying that about me and you shooting a golf ball at our sides. Sort of, but you know, the traditional thing is weird too. Like I get it. I get all of it, but I think if you're going to shoot a traditional bow, you have to be a guy who's been practicing for a long time and you have to put a lot of hours every day doing that. Cause it's essentially like you have to judge just based on how far you know an arrow drops. It's all in your head. Like, like throwing a rock. Throwing a rock. Yeah. Yeah. Throw enough rocks. Yeah. It's not even throwing a rock cause it's the same. It's like throwing a baseball. Yeah. You know, like you have to be really good at it. Yeah. I, I did it for about three or four years, like pretty like hard up. And the best way that I can sum it up is to be regularly successful with a traditional bow. I'd have 50 shots every single day and I'd have 25 shots for form minimum. And then I'd have 25 shots as in aiming to be an, and so you had to do that every day. So once you get time Paul, like it's really hard to keep that up and then, and I was successful in doing it. But the beauty of a compound bow was like, even if I was flat out at work once a week I could shoot the bow stays sided in. Yeah. You pick it up and away you go again. It's still hard. Like you're still fully handicapped. Yeah. So I was like, it's hard enough without being like, okay, I'll go traditional bow hunting now. So I was just Northern territory, Australia, like last month and I had a couple of days with a compound and it was like, had a brilliant hunt, like that done really well. And I was like, ah, stuff it, I'll go with the trad bow for the next couple of days. And so I hunted with the trad bow and shot a bunch of pigs and a Buffalo and stuff like that. And then when I went back to the compound, I felt like I was shooting a sniper rifle because the recurve is so hard, you know? I would imagine that that would help your compound bow. A hundred percent it does. Yeah. And so my effective range with a trad bow is like 30 yards. Ideally I'm at 10 or 15. So even having the stork in that close with traditional gear and then having the compound and being at like 40, 50 and being just like, Oh, this thing's done, you know, and shooting it. So do you bring a lot of arrows with you when you go on these back country hunts? On the Northern territory one I do. Yeah. This hunt, Colorado one. How many are you bringing? Five hours in the quiver. That's it. Yep. Yeah. I think for practice, I actually practice it all when you're out there. Yeah. I think I took seven or eight. So I had a couple in the backpack this trip and um, because I shot a grouse as well. So pretty much arrows done because usually you're shooting them off a branch. Um, and then I, one of the days I stacked it pretty hard, like fell over and hit the rest and bent the rest down or the rest shifted. Then I, so I had spare arrows to actually pull it back up and shoot my bow in the place. And luckily it just sort of ripped that grub screw down so I could see the position that I had to sit in and I had one shot and it was bullseye straight away. So, but I still wanted a couple of shots because of it. So yeah, but like you're going to shoot one bull. Right. It wasn't like I had a mule deer tag or another tag with me. It was just like, but sometimes you have to take followup shots. Sometimes things hit branches about five hours in the quiver. You should be, you should be, you should be, especially if you're limited to a distance, you know, are you still using those a two blade solid broadheads? Which company do you use? I use Kyaga Broadheads. Yeah. So they've got a broad, because they like, how can you tell if you're not hitting the bone or not? Right. Like I'll watch these videos of these white tail dudes shooting white tail and the arrows hanging out of the white tail this much and they still kill it because they've got a broadhead that's fucking like 10 inches wide. Well they're using a mechanical, mechanical, it just expands and opens them up. But like, cause we're shooting Buffalo. So I do that Buffalo hunt once or twice a year. And then like some of our bigger deer, like the red deer are pretty solid as well. With a two blade broadhead, you can still split bone and punch all the way through the animal, you know? And it's like, if you shoot something in Australia using that sort of set up like 70 or 80 pound bow, a good like micro diameter shaft. So there's no restriction on the shaft actually passing through the animal after the broadhead and a decent solid broadhead. If you're not picking your arrow up in the dirt somewhere out the other side, you're like, shit, where did I go wrong? You know? And it's like, so there's, there's hardly any what we'd call like flag and an animal where the arrow is hanging out of it's like punched straight for a hole in one side and out the other. Like that's what you want. I just know so many people that have made shots with those little single bevel small tiny broadheads and they just, you know, the animal will run so far. Whereas if you hit it with a good two inch cut rage, that fucker's not going anywhere. If you get past the bone. Yeah, for sure. If you've shot it in the right place, like double lungs is double lungs. So if you've actually got double lungs, that animal's dead, you know? And it's just like, there's pros and cons to it for sure. Yeah. I'll lack a blood trial. Whereas you'll shoot something with your set up and, and crime scene. Yeah. That's just, yeah. This is a pain to the ground. Cam Haynes is shooting a four blade. Is he shooting a corner for it's like, can I argue with what cam's doing? It's just shit just dropping everywhere around it. Well, he wasn't forever. He would, he would go with a Muzzy Trokar. That was his thing. Yeah. Yeah. Three blade fixed head. That's all he ever shot. And then Wayne endicott's like, you really have to try these. And he had like a questionable hit on a deer and he's like shit. And then he saw the deer run 30 yards and die instantly. And he's like, Whoa. Yep. And it's just cause you're just opening them up. Yeah. Inland, I was shooting the rage, that trip with you guys. And um, I made like a pretty average shot. Like I'd expect the animal to probably run a hundred yards before he pulled up and dropped. And it was just like, he ran 20 yards and just dropped. And I was like, wow. And got over there and yeah, pretty much already field dressed him and everything, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's uh, that's the weird debate amongst bow hunters. Fixed blade or mechanical? When I really got fixed on a fixed blade was called this big red stag in, like he come down through the mist, like couldn't even see him. Just could hear him up there raking a tree, like in the rut and then started calling and hearing coming down the mountain. And he sort of come, um, slightly angle and on, but pretty much facing me. And I was like, like, I'll wait for him to turn. And he was pretty much going to come straight over the top of me. So I thought I can slip it in there. And as I shot, he turned, so hit him right on that bone, that front leg bone. And it split the ball joint of the leg bone, like straight in half, um, angled down, went in through a rib through his heart, out through another rib and into the bottom joint on the far side leg. And like it just dropped you on the spot. Cause it pinned his legs together, obviously died pretty much instantly through the heart and carry, like took all the meat out, deboned it for what I'd keep all those bones and boiled them out. And so it split four lots of bones to go through that stag. Otherwise I was just wounding it. And it was from that point there that I'm like, I'll never shoot anything else. And I don't have to change like from shooting, you know, um, goats or deer, a small deer to shoot in a massive Buffalo. I don't change my setup, you know? So the arrows always at around 550 grains, the broad is the same. I can resharpen them. So you talk about these long trips and trying to save white. I don't carry spare broad heads or anything cause those broad heads like pass through an animal. They'll hit a rock on the other side. You pick it up, you file it off, then you know, you get a razor sharp. So it's shaving hairs again and away you go. You know, that's why I like the setup, but every now and then I'll have limited blood trial. I'm like, shit, I should be shooting a big expandable broad head, but I don't want to change. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. It's that six in one half a dozen. And it's like, that's like nearly American hunting culture and the two blade fixed broad heads like Australian hunting culture. That's why I asked because everybody over there uses those. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got, we're getting that way. There's a lot of people shooting those broad heads now, but like you guys had release aids and sites like 10 years before Australia would go to it. And if you shot sites in a release aid, you're a fucking pussy. Like in Australia. Oh shit. You're a pussy? To know where you're shooting? Exactly. And then I was hunting with an old friend of mine, John, and he had a release aid and I'm like, what's the big deal about those release aids dude? And he's like, well have a shot of my bow and like we're just sitting around camp. You were shooting fingers, shooting fingers, like always shooting fingers with a compound, with a compound. Yeah. And open sites. Like that's all, that's all anyone's instinctive timber arrows dude. It was insane. Like you had the spine test and check all your arrows and like twist broad heads to get them right and glue them on and stuff like that. And he was one of the first sort of technical, what we'd call the technical bow on her in Australia that I knew. And I remember him shooting and it was just like, seriously, like golf ball size at 20, 30 yards. Like every time I'm like, how the fuck can you do that? Cause you know, our arrows sort of had a spread of at least a tennis ball or slightly bigger, you know? And then I shot with his release aid like four or five times and I'm just like, holy shit, what am I doing? Cause it's just like pinpoint, pinpoint, pinpoint, you know, just a minimal amount of movement on the backend, a hundred percent and the same release every single time. And it's like, it's so fascinating about archery. It's just one little tiny movement one way or the other as it translates 80 yards ahead, a foot and a half, a hundred percent. Yeah. And it comes down to so much the bow tune, your site, your release, the arrow, how straight the broadhead is. It just, there's so much to it. What release you shooting these days? So now I'm shooting a spot hog. Um, I'm not a techie guy, so I don't even know the campaigns one. Yeah. Like a campaign, the whippersnap or no, the wise guy, the wise guy that's the purple one. Yeah. Cause I had a hunt in New Zealand and I had a release aid that I'd been shooting for 10 or 12 years. Jam off on me on a big red star. I called this big red stag in and like pulled the trigger and it didn't go off. And then, and then because I pulled the trigger and it didn't go off, I looked down like what the hell's going on? And then it went off and it shot between this red stags antlers. Like I'm lucky I didn't hit him and wound him. And that like I need to fail me once and I'm like, okay, I'm not doing that again. Get grit in it or something. They, they actually changed the metal material that they were using. Is it Carter? We, yeah, yeah. They changed it and I've had two since and they've both done the same thing. They get jammed up and like, like you'd see the amount of hunting I've done. I'm going through water, I'm going through dirt and grit, I'm going through crap and it's just like, like properly locked up where it's holding on to 80 pounds without letting go. And then, so I mucked around up at my farm, like I can shoot out to however distance you like. I'm up at the farm and then I was trying, like trying to get it to go off and I still couldn't get it to go off. And then, so that's why I changed because that wise guy's got very limited moving parts in it. Yeah. It's the most simple really. It is. Yeah. So I bought three cause I, I, I now I keep one in the backpack. So I've just like cryovac'd it so no crap can get in the backpack and it's just in the backpacks sitting there waiting as a spare. Also if you just breathe on that thing, it goes off. Oh yeah. It's sweet as. It's so hot. Yeah. I love it. And it's either loaded or it's not. Yeah. So yeah, I really liked that. It's very simple. I liked the belt buckle though. Better than the Boa. Yeah. So I've got the Boa one and I don't like that you don't know that it's in the same position each time. Right. Whereas the belt buckle, I've got a mark on mine. You know, we talk about the littlest things help. Yeah. So I've actually got a mark on mine so I know what one to do it up to each time. And yeah, it's, it's sweet. The only thing that people don't like about the wise guy is that it's so hot that you can't get a surprise release cause you're essentially, if you touch it, it's going off. Yeah. Yeah. But I've always shot like that and I don't want to change. Like I, I let's just say a deer bust out of the brush and runs past me. I want to be able to punch it. What you call punch it. It's like a Mon bang, you know, whether you're leading it by a foot or whether it's going slower and it's a couple of inches, you're leading it by whatever. I've always liked shooting that. I've been thinking a lot about that, you know, because I've talked to Joel Turner and he brings you through, you know, that whole shot IQ process. I think you can shoot a release and make it go off, but you make it go off while you're in control of all your faculties and you're not panicking and you have a shot process. Yep. I mean, if I have a hinge and I pull it back for people that don't know what a hinge is, a hinge is a release that you don't have a trigger. You just rotating the release and eventually it goes off. Well, sort of, cause it gets to a click and the click is saying, Hey, we're real close. It goes click. It gives you an audible click. And what that is is to let you know that this release is about to go off and all you do is pull and it goes off. How is that any different than keeping your shit together and putting a finger on it? Yeah. What I think it is is a lot of these people, first of all, in the target archery world, that's a different world. Like you're standing still, there's all these people watching you, you have a target, it's a bullseye, it's a circle and another circle is an X in the center. And all you're trying to do is make this absolutely perfect shot into the X and you have all this time to set up and relax. And that's not the same thing as bow hunting. Yeah. Bow hunting is a very different thing. And I, I think the anticipation of the moment and the extreme anxiety that comes with the animal being, it's really about managing that anxiety. It's not about whether or not you can make a trigger go off because you can make a trigger go off and still have perfect form and shoot a perfect shot. Remy does it. Cam does it. You do it. I just think it's experience. I think cause there's some people that are really good on paper, but they're not good hunting. Right. And a big part of that is that I try not to think about it cause I don't have a shot process. And, but you also shoot animals more than anybody alive. Yeah. So I think I don't need a shot process and I don't like to think about it cause that's when I think I'll fuck up right now. I'm just doing, I'm doing, that's it. Right. You're doing it. Yeah. And, and that's why I don't want to change Eva. Right. Cause I do see heaps of people going to back tension and stuff like that. And I tried one years ago and I missed an animal straight away. So I'm just like, yeah, fuck that. It's done. So it's one of those things where they say you have to get worse before you get better. Yeah. So you do, you do that. I don't want to get worse before I just want to do it. I practiced with a hinge. I've hunted with a hinge, but this year I hunted with a thumb button and uh, I just had it set pretty hot and I executed a perfect shot. Yeah. But I went through a thought, I have a process in my head and you know, I'd also had the luxury of having one elk hunt that was just a couple weeks before that where I shot a nice elk and also I shot a pig a few weeks before that. So no monkey on your back. Right. You have experience. And I think a lot of people drawing on an elk in September is the first animal that you shot. I don't know how they do it. And at least I seriously don't know how they do it. I think that's where target panic comes from. It comes from the uniqueness and the novelty of the experience. You're overwhelmed like, this is the moment you've been preparing for. Instead of like, Oh, I've been here before. You know, if you ever see Remy shoot an animal, it's like, he's been there so many times. He's just rock solid. He puts the pin on it and you know, hits the trigger and it's a perfect shot and he knows what he's doing. Yeah. I also shoot a two blade. A guy said to me, um, he's like, Oh, only 1% of over the counter hunters are successful. And I'm like, yeah, but they probably get the hunt three days in the season. Right. How often do they even practice? Yeah. I'm like, I just did 10 years of hunting in a month, you know, so, and it's just like, and I came from a hunting rich environment. Right. Like I, I just come back from the Northern territory, Australia and like had like loaded up big time and I'm just like, so all that pressure is off. But then when an elk bugled, I went the shit still cause I'm just like, there's so much, um, not pressure, but it's just like, there's, I wasn't saying anything. So I was like, this is your one opportunity. Yeah. You're about the fuck it, you know? And it's just like, so there's all that pressure. So I don't know how American hunters do it. Let's say coming off the back end of the one percent. Yeah, that's the 1%. Yeah. I've thought about this a lot because I'm very attracted to things that are very difficult to do. And I've always tried to figure out why are they difficult? Like why are certain things difficult? And it, a lot of it boils down to psychology. A lot of it boils down to the way your mind processes that moment. And there's something about bow hunting that is so unique in that every situation is different. You can have similar situations. Oh, this is in a meadow. It's 60 yards. I've been here before. I know what to do. It's minimal amount of wind. I don't have to wear out wind drift. I can handle this. But then there's, you know, like cam shot this elk at two yards this year and he was crouched down on a trail. He came to full draw. He expected the animal to go like past him. We're getting broadside shot is like right in front of him. So now he has to figure out what pin to use because you know, the arrow comes out at two yards with a meter pin. You have to. That's what you have to use. Yeah. You have to use a 50 meter pin. That's literally what you have to use because the arrow's not coming. It doesn't, it doesn't hit its apex for quite a while. So when it comes off the bow, it's coming off low. So if you shoot a 20 yard pin on an animal that's two yards away, you're going to hit it crazy low. Yeah. Yeah. Nuts. Isn't it? Yeah. It's like, I love the idea that there's no two the same. Yeah. Like there's really, there's no two animals the same. There's no two situations the same. They might be similar. Like you just said, like same yardage and that there's no two that react the same. And it's just, I think that's a big part of the appeal in hunting. Yeah. You know, is, is a part of that, you know? Yeah. You are, essentially every time you're doing it, you're getting an education. Yep. And that's why a guy like Cam or a guy like yourself or Remy is so successful because you have so much education. Whereas for a new person, the learning curve is so big. So when they say that 1% are successful, I'm surprised it's even one out of a hundred guys. How many of them prepare properly? How many of them are out there really getting after it? I definitely know there's more hardcore guys out there now than ever before. Ever before. Because like some of those places are 14, 20 miles into the back country and you see, I used to seem to just get to five or six miles in the back country and I wouldn't see anyone. Right. Right. Unless our on horses or something like that, you wouldn't see anyone. This trip I was further into the back country than ever before and I seen 10 times as many hunters as ever before. Wow. So maybe we should stop talking about back country hunting. It's too late. We've romanticized it. And fit dudes. Yeah. Like carrying in proper camps, dude. There was, there was one morning I got up, just had this massive snowstorm like two days before. I'm like, this is going to kick the elk off. This is going to be sick. And I'm way back there. There's no human footprints or anything like that. No frigging elk footprints either at that point. And like by the time you get back to camp cooked dinner, you're in bed pretty early, like two hours after dark sort of thing. And yeah, I'll say the word again, you're rooted, you know? So like you're like, you put your head down, you're fucking fast asleep, two seconds flat. And I get up in the morning and it's like dark still and I climb out of my tent and there's like this light colored blob like just across from me and I'm like, what is that? And then I like, I start walking closer to it and it's a dude set up a tent like right near me, like 50, a hundred yards from me. So he hiked in in the pitch black of night dude and set up his tent there. And then, so I went back in the tent and I'm like, I've got company. Like this is, it's competition back then. You know, there's no elk around. So last thing I need is another Hunter like pushing in on me. Did he know you were there? I don't know if he walked in in dark on the dark, I wouldn't think so. But the other thing was it was blowing a gale and it's like one of the only flats and it's sort of like on a little saddle on the mountain. So it's limited out of place system. Yeah. Yeah. And probably slightly out of the wind there compared to where he'd walk from. Was he cool? Well, I don't know. I didn't hang around to talk to him, you know, like you're in the zone and that zone's wild. So the last thing that you want to see is someone from civilization. Right. But occasionally, you know, you might run into someone like yourself. Okay. Yeah. But they fucking noticed me and then they tell their friends and they think I'm in a bomb spot. So then all their mates hang out and come in as well, you know, so he's trying to keep a low profile back there. And yeah, so then I just made me coffee really quickly and I was like, I'll go and sit on that. There's like a rock that I wanted to sit on. It's a perfect lassing point. That's why I camped in that spot. And then, so I made my coffee and looked up and he's walking up to the rock and this dude goes and sits on the rock that I wanted the glass from. So then I just hightailed it like in a completely different direction, you know, and it's like, Hey, we're both there not looking at elk. There was stuff all back there. But, but yeah, those sort of guys, uh, they're, they're out there now. Yeah. And it's just, when did that change? Um, when may you and cam and the other behind us started talking about fucking back country hunting. Was that what it is? I don't know. Probably was it COVID dude. Never started realizing like, fuck, I better start looking at defending for myself. Yes. I think the fending for yourself and being able to gather food. That's, that's a big deal. Yeah. I know during COVID I just got swamped with messages. Like how do I start in bow hunting? Like how do I get a start in it? Like I want to go and cause like that, like it's one of the most amazing things there is that I think people are missing out on is going and harvesting your own meat. Yeah. You know, and I say it all the time. It's like, I hate being labeled as a hana. Like I'm just, we're just human. And like, I really do think hunting's a big part of being a human. I don't think everyone can do it, you know, and I don't want everyone to do it because look what I'm having a bitch about right now. Like you get to a trailhead, there's 30 other cars at the trailhead and it's like rough, hard country. And there's 30 other cars there. Most of those cars have multiple people in them. So there's that many people, do you know, sort of walking around in the wilderness, just got to go deeper. You do. I just, I find spots that they don't know about, but that's the thing about you coming over from Australia. That's not really an option. It's not. Yeah. Like there's a lot of guys that spend so much time scouting and so much time e-scouting like they're looking on, I'd be better next year, if that makes sense. Cause I already done so much land and walking this year that it's sort of, oh, there's no sign that there's no sign there. There's no sign, even older sign, you know, like I've constantly taken note of like the trees that have been nibbled out by the elk in the winter. So they went to there or where there's a shed antler, you know, you sort of taken all that sort of thing in and, oh, there was heaps of hunters there. So stay away from that. Oh, there was bugger all hunters there. So as long as I get the follow it up next year, I think I'm better off. Right. So next year you'll try to do the same sort of situation. Yeah. But it's that whole, I'm trying to make it harder. I don't want to go backwards. So like, So you'd rather have less information and make it harder? Sort of. Cause you want to learn on the spot? Yeah. Yeah. You just like punishment. You're a glutton for punishment. The big thing I want to do next year is walk from the very start of the season to the end of the season. So just walk one way. And it's hard to find a mountain range that you can do that because if there's no elk, you keep traveling, you know, and you run, you run out of country basically. So like this year I did just short of 500 miles, but if there was game, I might've only did a hundred miles or 10 or 10. Yeah. But because there was no game, like literally like no prints on the ground that it's like, there's no use staying here, pack up camp and move. Right. And then I ended up walking so far that I walked out to a highway at the end of the unit and called a friend and it's like, Hey, is there anyone that can pick me up because my truck is like seven days walkaways. And then, and then, so yeah, he's, he's dad knocked off work and like absolute legends. That's pretty cool. He's dad knocked off work, drove like three hours to where I walked out, pick me up and then drop me back to my vehicle. Well, that's a nice guy. You owe that dude. Yeah, I do. I, that dude sent him a boomerang or some shit. I'll take your Buffalo hunting. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. I'll do. Yeah. Well, don't do that. You might get them eaten by crocodiles. Fucking psycho. They're bad too. At the moment. Are they bad? Yeah. They just seem to be more regularly everywhere. Yeah. Are you allowed to hunt them there or are they protected? I think you can get a permit. Isn't that funny? You shoot deer out of a helicopter, but these fucking monsters. Tell me about it. Tell me about it. What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. So about, I was about 12 years ago now, um, we went into community, so like Aboriginal community and they had had kids taken, right. And that's the only water source and they had had kids taken out of that water for us. Pretty sad. Yeah. That's right. I just don't understand that. Kill those fucking things. So I'm not saying kill all of them, but kill everyone that's around people management, right? Jim shock. He was on the podcast a while back and he was telling a story about how they had actually hired him to go to Africa to hunt crocodiles because there was so many crocodiles that were taking people in this village and they would set up stakes in the water so that the crocodiles couldn't go through the stakes to get to them. But they figured a way around the stakes. And this woman while he was there was washing clothes and she got jacked. Wow. Yeah. He said everyone there was like missing a hand by taking out of your leg. He said it was just an epidemic. And that's like their everyday life. It's nuts. Isn't it? These are big, big 18 foot, 19 foot crocs. Like just shared enough and everyone's food. Yeah. Just giant African crocodiles, which are just the most terrifying animal in the world to me. Yeah. Cause they could lay there under water and you don't even know they're there. And they jump up and get you. And they're so fast. Did you ever see the video that I'd done in Northern territory? And um, um, is it online? It's online. How would Jamie find it? Oh, I think I pinned it to, um, my Instagram and I sort of talk people through it. Like after, obviously I'm not talking when I'm walking up there. So I'm going up there and there's like all these like little water holes as it's drying up and there's all these pigs laying on like two or three water holes that way and no pigs laying on a water hole this way. So I'm like, oh, that's a bit sus already. And then I just seen it too. I could just see its eyes above the water and the back of its tail. Oh, this is it. So this is a small water hole. Yeah. Jabs out there on the bank. You can see a big saltwater crocodile. You can see snout in his eyes closest to the bank. And then you can see like the ridge of the front of his tail. Oh God. I actually watched him come from the center of that billabong there right to the edge when he noticed the line that I was taken to the watch this thing sink away. Yeah. You can see properly hunting here. You'll see his eyes and snout just disappear under that dirty water. Look how slow he drops away. And he's doing that to try to get you. And you're walking close to this motherfucker tail prime. See the water. So he's ready to go. How far away are you from here? 10 meters, maybe. Why? Oh my God. Look at it. It's getting ready. Look at its tail. They just know they called us all. Yeah. I just threw that stick at him. I know you're there and a little bit of a fuck you too. Jesus Christ. Those things are terrifying. You and dragging into that water and then twisting and tearing your limbs off. Oh, bro. You could take him, Joe. You could take him. All that I would take him from a distance with a 300 windmill. Oh, they're so prehistoric. Like, so that, that crocs probably never seen a person before. And there's nothing else getting around there. That's walking upright like a human, but I was still food. I was still on the menu, everything's on the menu, completely on the menu. Whereas if you see a lot of other animals in nature that have never seen a person, you know, you're so foreign that they just want to get the fuck out of there. Right. And he could have sunk down and turned around and sunk in that water. I would never know that it was there, but instead he's like, fuck food, sweet. Let's have a crack, you know? Yeah. So, but that seems more common at the moment. And I don't know why if the population's getting too high, but you used to get around and see like a soldier or two every now and then it's all water crocodile every now and then. And, but nearly like hard to find, you know, certain river systems, not, but like tucked away water like that. Whereas now it's just like every fucking water holes got a croc in it. So we just bought a property up in, um, the Northern territory of Australia and it's got a beautiful big lagoon on it. And Kimmy's like, oh fuck, that's going to be sweet for swimming. I'm like, that's the wrong state of Australia, you know, cause the top of all the top of Western Australia and all of Northern territory and the top of Queensland, that's where the crocs are. Saltwater crocodiles are in that district. And they're deep inland. Yeah, they can be. Yeah. So, and this property that we've purchased is, it is inland as well, but they get pushed in there. Like, um, the Northern territory will have a big wet season. Water will rise like over the top of the land and everything like that water will rise. And those big salties can move into a little water hole where they've never been before. So you might have a property and being like, nah, this water's sweet. And then the next year there's a big salty in there and they can go for a year without eating. That'd be freaking desperate if they did. Like you're definitely on the menu if they do that. I mean, that's just an extraordinary animal. I mean, evolution just has honed those motherfuckers to a razor's edge. Oh yeah. Yeah. I think I told you about the story where like I shoot a big boar pig and like the arrow zips through it and it just dropped over onto the river bank and I walked over there with another arrow just to see if I had to follow it up. And so I walked up and like I'm at like a metre above it. Anyway, it was just, just on the side of the water, like not in the water, just on the side of the water. And it was just like in the final stages of its life. And I looked down and put the second arrow away. Like it doesn't need another arrow. It's sweet. And I looked down and put the second arrow away and just heard the water erupt and this big saltwater crocodile come out, grabbed it. I could still see it in slow-mo. Grabbed this pig, like threw it over in the water and then started swimming away with it and actually took, and it was a big boar pig, actually took it underwater for like 30, 40 yards and then come back up with it. And then another big salty was trying to get it off that saltwater crocodile. Now that pig was already dead. I would have just jumped straight down the back, the bank, and I would have been right in the line of fire. Oh boy. You know, I was like, that's how quick it happens, dude. You know? And it's just like, they're just sitting there waiting. I had another trip. I love these crocodile stories because they're so fucked up. I fucking hate them. They make my skin crawl. Me and Kimmy did like 120 kilometres across like inland Northern Territory. And it was funny because, you know, when you're in society, like back at home, you've got all the different things going on, whether it's bills, kids, you know, just a thousand things going on, work and stuff like that. And Kimmy really enjoyed that trip because all you had to worry about every day was water, food, where you're going to camp. But if water comes, fucking crocodiles, because you have to go down and collect the water. Like we're walking 120 kilometres. You can't carry enough water for 120 kilometres. You literally fill it and it's stinking hot. So you're filling your water bottle up multiple times a day. And I'm like, you stay back here and I'll race down, watch the bank where I fill the water up at. And because you're looking over this water hole, like even with binoculars glass and that, you can't see a crock anywhere. Like during the daylight, like you can't see a crock anywhere. And I go down and I'm fast. Like I don't muck around down there. You go down, you scoop up the water and it's dirty water. You can't drink it. Then you take it back up the bank, away from the crocks and you filter it up there from one water bottle to another. So anyway, I race down there, I scoop up the water. I'm halfway back up the bank, like way away from the water though. And Kim's like, look behind you. And I turned around behind me and big saltwater crocodile eyes come up straight behind me. Like that's how quick they are. I went down, scooped water, got away from there, right where I filled up the water, crock eyes come straight up. Because they had sensed movement. They just, they're just onto it. They're probably looking at you the whole time, you know, but you just can't see it. And then, but at nighttime, like you'd shine a torch around and it's just like red eyes everywhere. So during the day, there's like, you can't see a crock and then you shine a torch in a water hole at night and there's just eyes everywhere. Do you feel safe in a tent? Yeah, because they, they'll only come so far at the bank. So this last mission that I did with a couple of friends, we had no choice, but to camp within like 20 yards of the bank. But it's a high bank and the saltwater crocodiles were trying to come up that high bank every night. So we ended up running fish in line, you know, like three or four inches off the ground and like tying tin cans and like whatever we could that would make noise across there just so you'd hear them coming up overnight. Yeah. So that's uncomfortable. For some sickening reason, I still sleep fine, but that's really uncomfortable. But generally you're a hundred yards up the bank. They won't, they won't come that far unless they're really desperate. So I had a buddy tell me that he'd had crocs travel two, 300 yards up a bank and they took his dogs off a chain. Like they actually ripped the dogs off the chain without locked up. But he was like camp there for weeks and weeks sort of thing. So the crocs were patterned and that sort of thing. And that's what they do. And that's why you don't fill up water at the same place like twice in a row. Oh yeah. Do you know anybody that's ever gotten attacked? I know people that have come bloody close. I don't know. Don't know of anyone that's been attacked because they're fucking dead. But no, I great way to get, it's not fucking worse than here. Bears are walking across land. At least that danger there is at the water. Yeah. It's right at the water. So if you go down, you need water. Yeah. But yeah. And they could be an inch offshore. They can be. And then generally I'll try and fill up water behind a tree. So there'll be a tree right on the bank and I'll stay behind the tree and try and fill up water. And then I had, you can dodge. Yeah. I had another one. I tagged you in it, but I know you hate that shit, but I'm like, fuck, I'm tagging you anyway. And I'm walking around at night with a torch and like walking through like ankle and knee deep water trying to spot barramundi. And I was trying to debunk the myth of saltwater crocodiles and freshwater crocodiles won't live in the same body of water, you know? And that's that. So that people are like, Oh, if you see freshwater crocodiles, there's no saltwater crocodiles. Well, I know that's bullshit. Is the freshwater crocodile smaller. They're smaller. They're not aggressive like that. They can be territorial. They won't eat us for starters. So a freshie might bite you, but he'll let you go. Whereas a salty will bite you and hold onto you and fucking eat you, you know? And then, so I'm going around with this torch and I'm seeing all these freshies, freshwater crocodiles everywhere. And then I hear something moving up, like there's sort of rapids below me and I hear something moving through the water and I'm like, Oh no, that's not a fucking freshie. And I turned around and start walking down there and shine the torch. And the chair, it's a big salty and he's like coming straight up the water towards me. And uh, yeah, so fucking, they do live, they do coexist with each other. So if you see a freshie, don't think you're safe and jump in for a swim. It could be a bloody salty in there too. So is that just a lack of people traveling in their area? And so they've developed this? I think so. I think probably anyone that lives in the NT knows it's a myth, you know, but maybe tourists and that don't, you know, and it's like they're horrible names, right? Saltwater crocodile lives in freshwater as well. Right. But a freshwater crocodile pretty much just lives in freshwater as far as I know. Yeah. Fuck yeah. There's a place called car Hills crossing up in the Northern territory heading out towards a part of Arnhem land. It might be actually the border of Arnhem land. And there's so many saltwater crocodiles on that crossing and people come unstuck there all the time because it's tidal, right? So they'll try and drive across there with a car and get their car will get washed off and they've got to swim back to the bank of all these crocodiles in the water. So it's pretty sketchy, but I still feel like Australia is safer than hunting bloody Wyoming or somewhere or Montana because of the Grizzlies. And they're actually on land and can come to your tent anytime they like. Yeah. There's been a lot of discussion about removing them from the endangered list. Yeah. Okay. And putting tags on them, which they really should do. There's, there's a lot of places where they're overpopulated. I know they're talking about that in Wyoming and there's places in Montana where they're trying to have that discussion. But again, you deal with these wildlife activist groups that don't want you doing that. And so then there's litigations and lawsuits and it's a hard push, isn't it? Cause you don't want it the other way where everything's just getting slaughtered. Of course. So there has to be a bit of a fight back, but it needs to be some sort of middle ground where it's like, Oh shit, this is actually going to be better for the elk and deer population and people population and probably better for the bears as well. You know, the grizzly just wipe out the black bears. The problem is that there's these people that are the wildlife activists. They do not like hunting in any way, shape or form, and they don't want to give up any ground. You know, I'm going to send you this Jamie, cause this is pretty crazy. A friend of mine filmed this in, um, in California, a Wolf that is near Bakersfield. Oh wow. Yeah. And he doesn't know how it got there and he suspects that someone released it there, but this was, uh, you know, this is right off of, you know, a mile or two off of, uh, highway five, which is just bananas. Like that, this thing was there. No, the Husky is it? No, it's a fucking love one. You go, Jamie. So this, uh, I just sent it to you. So this, uh, friend of mine filmed this from the side of the road a couple of years ago and they think that it's very possible that someone, you know, some rogue activist group just decided to start releasing wolves. Oh, I'm sure it's multiple smokes. Yeah. So this is in beautiful looking animal. Amazing animal. Look at his eyes. This is in central California and you could see he's on cattle land as, as a, you know, they're filming it and the Wolf's aware they're filming it and they see a cow. Oh, the cow's chasing. Cow's like, what are you? The cow has no, no idea. No idea what a Wolf is. Never seen one before. And all of a sudden there's a Wolf there. I'm sure that's happened multiple, multiple times. I'm sure there's, there's a lot of people that think that wolves should be everywhere and they don't have cattle and they don't have dogs. They don't live there and they just, they're just, and they look beautiful. So people like you can't shoot and you can't hunt them. You know, and it's just like, I, we've spoken about that a few times where it's like, oh, if it's a pig or something ugly, it's like, ah, yeah. Hunt them as much as you like. And then it's a beautiful deer and it's like, you can't shoot that. Like, come on. My own agent said that to me. She was like, you should shoot pigs cause they're ugly. I'm like, that's so crazy. I got the same feelings towards a pig as a beautiful deer and they're good feelings, you know? And it's like you as a hunter, you understand this as well, that it's not like, you know, nah, shoot it. I want to kill it. You know, it's not about that at all. They're all cool. They are. It's cool that they exist. We're very fortunate that we get to be around them in the wild because it's such a unique moment when you're around an animal that, you know, especially the places that you go, you've probably never seen a person before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I come across that a fair bit. I just actually had an accountant with a dingo, wild dog in Australia that had never seen people before. And he actually asked off at me, like was like bark and flat out at me. And I didn't know what I was. And then, and then I was, I, I pretended to be prey. So I turned and started running away to see what he'd do. And he come flying down the bank and like was like, like coming at me. And then he hit, hit my scent. And then it was a completely different story. As soon as he smelled human, he knew it was danger. And he spun around and bolted. And he actually, there was a little water hole there that he just walked out of. Like there was wet prints coming out of the water hole in the half-eaten wallaby. And they were on a killing rampage there, these dingoes. End up finding three wallabies, one dead that hadn't even been eaten. It'd just been killed. That one that I was just talking about, that had half eaten. They'd have half eaten another one in the creek. And that also killed a wild cattle calf. And, and were eating that as well. All in this one area, they were just cutting sick. How many dingoes do they travel with? Like in a pack? It depends. The first dog that I seen, he was a male and he was by himself and he might be just like a traveling male. But then I've seen packs of 16 to 20 before. Wow. Yeah. They could do some damage. They could do some damage. They generally always run the other way. And that's why that was a weird encounter. Like he fully, like me and Kim were both walking down the bank in the Distri River and he both were in plain view and just stood his ground on the top of the bank, on the other side, just going off at us. How big are they? The size of, um, like a cattle dog, a bit bigger than a cattle dog. So 40 pounds? Yeah, 40 pounds or so. Those dingoes right there. Yeah. They're dingoes. So people keep them as pets? Um, these will be in a zoo. Um, those are in a zoo? Yeah. They'll be some sort of fancy. They look just like a dog. Yep. That's what's crazy. Oh, look at them go. They don't seem like if I saw that, I'd be like, oh, someone left their dog out here. Oh yeah. I've seen one in Arnhem Land about three years ago that looked like it was crossed with like a Tasmanian tiger. Really? Yeah. It was, had this cool back end, like with faint stripes on it and a tail. And then I was like, and then my buddy Isaac Butterfield, you met him when I was here last month, the big tall comedian dude. Yeah. Um, we were talking about doing like basically a search mission for him throughout Australia, doing a series on it, um, which I think would be really cool because I haven't been extinct for that long. And there's a lot of remote country in Australia that there's still definitely a possibility that they're out there somewhere. There's a lot of sightings. Yeah. And I do think that that one with the stripes, is that possible that they could be a hybrid? I really don't know. I didn't say too much about it at the time, so I probably shouldn't have mentioned it on JRE. Why would you want to keep that a secret? Because I didn't know. And I don't, if it is out there, I really don't want the place getting stampeded with people looking for it. Well, you know, people have been looking for them for quite a while because there are so many sightings of them, of the file scenes. Yeah. You know, I mean, there's a lot of people that go looking for them and there's a lot of people that absolutely believe that they still exist. Yeah. I've, there was a Willem Dafoe movie a few years back. Yes. The Hunter. Yeah. That was about a guy trying to kill the last style scene. Yeah. I set up a lot of trial cameras and, and like, I haven't seen anything on trail camera like that, but then I've never seen a wild dog on trail camera and there's plenty of wild dogs in Australia. Right. And then I did another series of Isaac Butterfield looking for the Black Panther in Australia because they come over as like mascots on the US ships. And then when I think when they were told to like, put them down as in like, don't bring them back, they didn't want to put them down. Like these, these soldiers had these animals near them every day that they kicked them off on the mainland of Australia. And then, so we did this Black Panther one and I set up a couple of trial cameras and obviously we never got any photos of a Black Panther. And then, you know, Isaac's like, do you think they're real then? I'm like, well, there's koalas here. There's deer species here in the mountains. There's wild dogs in the mountains. There's possums in the mountains. There's all these things that definitely exist right there. And there's no photos of them. Right. So it's like, everyone happens to get out on cameras. It really doesn't prove that there's no Tasmanian tiger. No, there's so much land. You know, there's only so many cameras. You'd have to get so fortunate. A hundred percent. Yeah. But that's the argument that Bigfoot people use too though. They think Bigfoot knows where the camera is. Those people are lost. I'm sure there's been other species that we haven't discovered that are extinct or maybe not extinct. So there's still hope for something like that. Well, especially when you get to places like some of these intense, dense jungle rainforests or, you know, how much of that's been explored? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I remember watching a documentary about a man who spent his entire career looking for the giant sloth in the Amazon because it used to exist and there's been a bunch of indigenous people that have told stories about encountering these giant sloths. So this guy was absolutely convinced that these sloths were there and he was kind of banking his career on it and it wasn't working out. And you can see the desperation in him. He was just realizing like, what have I done with my life? Yeah. I might be looking for something that actually doesn't exist. Doesn't exist. Yeah. You know, and these people would tell them stories about it. It's like, this guy could be bullshitting me because I'm some fucking white dork. Yeah. You know, the Pacific Northwest or wherever the fuck he's from. Yeah. You know, looking in the Amazon for a, there's some really interesting Aboriginal paintings that there's so many of the same that you're like, was that a creature that existed that we haven't found the bounds, the bones for that, you know, or that's still roaming that we haven't seen, you know, like what? I don't know. They're real weird, like tall, tall animals. And yeah, there's just, it's just like, why did they paint that over? And you know, there's like, there's 700 dialects of the Aboriginal language. So there's a lot of different mobs of Aboriginal people, you know, so it's like, but why did they paint that there? And they painted the same painting there and maybe they never even got along with each other or communicated from both to the same drawing, you know? And then I watched that Graham Hancock documentary, which was frigging brilliant to watch. And I started actually thinking because they're starting to really date back some extreme Aboriginal civilisations now in Australia that I don't know if Graham's ever been to Australia to, you know, see and witness it and study it, but love for him to come out at some point. But there's every chance that those animals existed, you know, but we just haven't found them yet. And I was talking to Jamie when I first got here about that, that boneyard in Alaska. Yeah. Where they're digging all that. And it's just like, like, what's next? And they just, they keep finding stuff that just seems to date back, date back, date back, date back. We're seeing he's found these ancient bones that have saw marks on them. Where the, yeah, you haven't seen that yet? No. Oh my God. Very clear markings, like, it sounds like completely sawed through where it seems like there was a mass extinction event that happened and it's documented. Look at that. Holy smokes. Yeah. Not just one. Sounds like they just found it. Like their waste pit. No, not necessarily. No, because they've found things that are there that they didn't, like, he's found multiple. Holy smokes. This is very recent. Now, here's what's crazy. The saw supposedly was only invented 5,000 years ago. Oh wow. And a lot of these things he's dating, they're way older than 5,000 years ago. 10, 15, 20. Looks like someone was hunting and hunting sick. Yeah, not only that, but someone who had access to a saw and they were getting the marrow out of these mammoth bones, which is nuts, man. That's. And there's carvings on them. They found short face bear skulls. They found the skulls of cats that weren't even supposed to be in Alaska. Oh. He's found a bunch of species that weren't even supposed to have existed there. Oh, this is so cool. Oh man, John Reeves is the fucking man. And his, his place that he's got there is insane. It's absolutely insane. It's so filled with animals and a very thick carbon layer. Look at these bison has there. Did you see the one that we have out front? Yeah, I did. Yeah. I was studying. Yeah. I have to find a university that I can send that to and get it carbon dated. Oh yeah. Cool. Also, but you don't know exact dates of any of the stuff. He has some. And he just sent some of those bones that have been sawed. He sent some of those to be carbon dated. So he's going to find out within the next few months. This is going to be really interesting. Fascinating because if they're older than 5,000 years ago, okay. Now we have historical evidence that predates the invention of the saw because whatever those things are cut with, that's a saw. I mean, it's a smooth, clean cut and it looks like human beings did it to try to get access to the Mara. Mara. Yeah. It sounds like the original butcher shop. Yeah. Well, the area that he's at though, because of the thick carbon layer, what he thinks when he's listened to Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock discuss the Younger Dryas Impact Theory, he thinks he's in an area that got hit. Right. And that these things died off instantly, that there was, you know, a large area where they existed in. And he's finding hundreds and hundreds of these animals in a small area. The area is only like six acres. Wow. Which is smaller than that. Well, one of them is six acres and the one that he's currently digging at is four acres. So there's multiple areas where they, what they do is they're blasting water into the permafrost. So they have like a cliffside and they're blasting water into this permafrost and then they'll see a woolly mammoth tusk. And if you've ever seen his, the documentation that he has on his Instagram, he's got warehouses filled with mammoth bones and skeletons. This dude must be one of the most exciting people there is. Can you imagine just like blasting out a wall and be like, what's that coming? Yeah. Well, he's so fucking cool. But the other thing that he's documented is that the Museum of Natural History in Manhattan dumped these bones in the East River. So they had these guys go out and he announced it on the podcast. He told everybody where it would be. And these guys went out there and they find mammoth bones. They found mammoth bones in the East River. You know, they found these 15,000, 20,000 year old bones that are at the bottom of the East River that were dumped there by the museum. How long ago? The 20s, the 30s. Far out. Yeah, far out. So that's one that they just found. So they found that in the East River. He's going to gift it to me. Yay. Oh, you've got enough gifts in here walking around. It'd be dope to have that one. Oh yeah. It'd be dope to have that one. Because the reason why those guys were there is because he announced it on the podcast. And so they have it zip tied because it's cracked. Yeah. It doesn't fall apart. But that thing is at the bottom of the fucking East River, which is just absolutely amazing. But John, because you know, he's a gold miner. And so his land that he has up there is originally for gold mining. But along the way, he's found a fucking fortune in mammoth bones. And it's such an extraordinary area. So okay, this gets more interesting. Here's a picture of one of the straight cut bones, still frozen beneath the ice wedge and the frozen muck, about 50 to 60 feet below the surface. So who knows how many thousands of years of ground is covering those things. And because it's permafrost, they're able to get these things out completely preserved. So, so interesting. And just the fact that there's this very small area that he's finding these things in. I'm walking around all the time, like look, I've never found anything like that. But yeah, I'm just constantly looking for something like that. That's undiscovered, you know, it's like, without going out of my way, like I'm just doing it while I'm hunting, but so cool. Did the aborigines, did they use bone or rock for arrowheads? Do they have that? So they didn't need bows and arrows. So that was never discovered. They didn't have a need for it because I was so efficient with spears, boomerangs. So boomerangs were basically for hunting flocks of birds. So a big flock of birds would take off. So very situated, suited for Australian conditions. Big flocks of birds, boomerang. Spears were, you know, your wallabies, kangaroos, things like that. I believe a lot of the spears were just a hardened timberhead. So like over a fire and hardened up. Yeah, I'd have to look into it more. I don't want to say the wrong thing, but I'm sure there was cases where they did use stones. We're going to come right back. So I got to take a leak, but we're right back. Sweet. And we're back. We're back. We're back. One of the things we were talking about last time you were here was that when you explained that there's 700 different languages that these Aborigines have and that a mob, that's what they call like a tribe, a mob of Aborigines could be just 10 kilometers away from another mob. Yeah. So one community to the next. They don't know what the other people are saying. Yeah. They wouldn't know their language. Which is crazy. It is crazy. Yeah. And then like imagine that many different countries inside of America, right? Like there'd be so much conflict. So a lot of these communities had conflict with one another and then certain amounts of them were actually pushed off the land as it become, you know, farm land or whatever it might've been. And have now been pushed into like communities where there's all these other separate countries, essentially dialects that have got to now co-exist and like they've been at war with one another since the dawn of their time, you know? So it's like pretty full on when you think about it like that. And then the other thing that's really hard is how do they teach that in schools where there's 700 different dialects? Are these, and they're not documented, these dialects, right? A lot of them are, a lot of them are dying out with the people, unfortunately. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's a shame. This thing that you were saying about these cave paintings that show these animals, can you, can we find those? You probably could. Yeah. I'm sure there's something documented on the net more than me just saying they look similar. I'm sure there's something like that. But like whether they were a spiritual person or animal or being is, is hard to say, but you know, you hear stories about the hairy people and things like that. Like, like that ain't people, eh? Yeah. What is that? Australian yowish. It's a really skinny Darth Vader. Ah, we put the Western word on it. What is it? Yowie? Like your big foot. Oh, so did they, whoa, what does that image? That's the yowie. So this is like the bloody devil. Something that, so these, and there's more, wow. There's more than one of these. Yeah. Huh? This thing that they, what are they showing? Yeah. Look at the similarity in them. Wow. Isn't that cool? And what are those things to the left of it? Like what is that thing? I don't know. Like what are all those things? It looks like a giant ball floating with a string attached to it. Like, but there's so many scroll back down again, Jamie. There's so many similar images of these long armed creatures with four fingers. Whoa. Isn't that amazing? Do they know how old these paintings are? I'm sure they do know some of them, but there's, so there's like, there's, um, artifacts going back 70,000 years now. Yeah. What is that thing? So, and there was like big, big like events in the last 10,000 years as in like media strikes and things like that. So it's quite interesting, isn't it? Yeah. There was a big one that's detailed off the coast of Australia around 5,000 years ago. Like, look at these things. How weird. Look at their heads. Aliens, Joe. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So like, yeah, I think there's even some paintings of like, like spaceships or what you would consider as spaceships. Wow. Now did the Aborigines, do they have a history of the use of psychedelics or the psychedelic drugs? Take it there. Well, I guess because there was a lot of Bush medicine, um, that they used. So, you know, whatever the side effects could have been of that, look at those fucking things like many, there is Bush medicine. Like what does that mean? Like just natural, um, herbs, you know, natural things that, you know, might be the sap of a tree. It might be leaves boiled up. It might be some sort of nut. Australian rock art might be the oldest in the world. Wow. Does it actually say how old? Look how 60,000 years fucking years ago. And they look like aliens. I mean, those look incredible. Giant black eyes, huge heads that looks exactly like the classic gray alien. Some paintings might also mean something else. So like, I know we're looking at those as faces, but, um, so one of my company's logos is it's a bunch of dots and the words NALIA, which is in the NALAMA language, which is like the community that I'm near in the NALAMA language. It means like people come together to create a community. And then, so those, those drawings that we just looked at could also be similar to that. Like there's two communities that are coming together. The line in the middle might mean this is their land, which could be a Ridge line, you know, so your lands, our lands here. And then the circle, the whole circle around it could actually mean the world or community, everything together. So even though it looks like a face, it could actually mean something a lot different. Right. And that's one of the difficulties in Australia with teaching, um, the traditional people's past is there's so much to it and there's so much that's not understood from one community to the other. So it does make it very difficult, but it's sad that it is getting lost. Well, when you're dealing with 700 different languages and people that have lived in this area for 60 plus thousand years, that is crazy. I mean, how much work is being done to document all this stuff? Um, I don't really know. Um, they've, a lot of these communities are very remote, so I don't know how much help there actually is for them. I don't know how many people can go to a place like that to document it. I don't know how many people actually qualified to document it Eva. So yeah, it is very difficult. And do they have a written language when it comes to this? Yeah. I believe so. Yeah. So there's 700 written languages. Oh, I don't know about written language really. Um, cause it's one thing to speak a language because that's what you know, but what reason do they have to write it down? Right. Do they have an alphabet like we do or do they share the alphabet? I don't believe so. Whoa. Yeah. I don't know enough to say too much, but I don't want to offend these people, you know? Right. Um, and I'm definitely no expert on it. I can only give you, you know, what I do know and what I've heard and learned myself, but I think a part of the struggle in Australia with Aboriginal culture is that it's not a written language. So like, how can it be passed on to someone else? You're Eva in the family and you grew up listening to the language and understand it, right. You know, or you don't. So, or you don't. Yeah. And then we might lose it forever. Yeah. I'm sure when you're talking about 60,000 years old and over 700 different dialects, that's a fucking dinosaur. Yeah. Wow. Whoa. It's apparently called a Yaru or it's a very close representation of a place. I think as well, just reading. Yeah. Wow. Isn't it fascinating. And how old is that? So I knew some tradition. Whoa. Just showing what it would have looked like. Yeah. That's fucking crazy. Getting adrenaline rush. Wow. They have drawings of fucking dinosaurs. This is where I was getting there. It's a lot of versions of that. I was trying to track a lot of different versions of a place. I don't know which was the original rep for our picture from this, but it's in color in some places and it's being talked about in other different parts of the internet. I'll just leave it. Look at that one that says the ancient history of UFOs. The one over here. Yeah. Look at that. Fucking what is, what is that? That looks like a person or some thing. Oh, it doesn't ever. Yeah. Very similar to what we're looking at. Yeah. But just, you just got to wonder like with these people tripping balls. Maybe they had a dream time, which sounds like it would have been like their traditional religion. Have you seen these up close? These not those as some of these. Yeah. Yeah. There, there's a part, there's a place in Western Australia where there's over 70, this is just on a peninsula on the coast. There's over 70,000 thousand rock art pieces just on that part of the coast. 70,000. And the story is that there was people that lived on the mainland on the coast. This is the Pilbara region of Western Australia. And then there was people that lived on the islands. So the Dampe Archipelagos, 40 odd islands, I think just off the coast. And there was another community of people that lived on the islands. I think they called them like the boat people or the canoe people or something like that. Cause they traveled from island to island in canoes and they looked and talked and acted so much different than the people on the mainland that when these canoe people used to come towards the mainland, the people on the mainland would clear out of there, like would leave. That's how freaky these other people were to them. It's like so fascinating to think about. What does that mean? What did these people look like? No idea, but the fact that there was 70, over 70,000 rock arts on the mainland that says that there was a lot of people on the mainland and they would clear out of there when these canoe people would come. It's insane. Wow. What was canoe people like? I don't know. I wish there was a video. I wish there was something of it. It's like sucks not to go back, but it's cool that we can't go back because it's ancient. Yeah, but it is so interesting that they were so different that these people would be like, what the fuck? We got to get out of here. These things are different than us. Yeah. Yeah. They must've, must've been so much so foreign to them. Oh, look, they have images of the things in the canoes. I think I'm guessing this is the same thing as talking about. This could be 50 to 70,000 years old. Wow. The Kimberley rock art. 50 to 70, imagine getting in a fucking canoe 50 to 70,000 years ago, making your way across the ocean and some hollowed out log. Why? Where's that from? Uh, Kimberley rock art. So what? The Kimberley's Australia. So that's Northern Australia and it shows deer. Yeah. That's what I'm curious about. Because yeah, deer obviously introduced species to Australia. So that is what was there that was deer like. That's what's craziest if they're introduced. What was deer like in Australia if it wasn't them? That is insane. That's so cool to look at. So are there any deer that are native to Australia? No deer at all. No deer at all. So what the fuck is that? If Australia didn't have introduced species, it would be the most fucking boring countryside in the universe. Is it possible something like that 50, 60,000 years ago and just wiped them out or something or a hundred percent asteroid wiped them out. There's no like the fact that no bones have been discovered from it. Right. You really don't know. But like we need a John Reeves over there with a hose. Yeah, we do. But you don't have permafrost. No, we don't. No. Yeah. So you have to start digging. How would you even find it? I don't know. And, and how would it perished over that time? Right. Considering the interior of Australia is all desert. Right. You know? Yeah. So yeah, quite interesting. No, it's an amazing place. And it's, it is amazing that it's one of the few places that doesn't have a native deer species. Yeah. Yeah. It's got all weird species. Like imagine never seen a kangaroo and seen it for the first time. Right. Like this thing hopping around like Joey in its pouch, standing up. Like what the fuck? What the fuck? And even an emu, you know, like it's got all the weird species and all the weird species that have got no appeal to be hunted. And then we've introduced deer and pigs and goats and bloody camels and donkeys and everything else. That's just fried. But kangaroo, you can eat. I've had kangaroo. You can eat kangaroo. It's very lean. It's delicious. So there's a market for kangaroo in Australia now. Yeah. Yeah. Which is like odd that we're eating now bloody emblem, you know, it is odd. Yeah. Like imagine you're cooking eagles. Like shit. Yeah. Well, it's certain places. Eagles are like pigeons. Like, can you go to Alaska? Eagles are everywhere. And New Zealand's the same. It's like, yeah. And so New Zealand's really got no predators. I think they got like a stout, like a little ferret, you know, which picks on a lot of ground nesting birds and stuff like that. But they don't have, you know, there's no bloody bears running around or, you know, anything like that. Well, the Europeans brought over animals to New Zealand to turn New Zealand into a hunting paradise. Right. That was like, when was it the 1800s? Like a filthy, filthy rich dream. Like let's just turn this whole island into a hunting Mecca. That sounds like what a really rich person would do way back then. You know, they just had the ability to do like get a boat, feed up a stag. I'd seen the images of like the tar getting taken up to, I think it might've been the top of Mount Cook in like a trolley system on wires, you know, like they, they went all out to get them to where they wanted them, you know. So crazy. And it started with bugger all of them and just, they've just thrived. Yeah. So New Zealand's doing the same thing as Australia where they just, you know, they're helicopter hull culling them and, you know, trying to eradicate them. Are they trying to eradicate them? They are, yeah. Which is, which is a shame because New Zealand's got a really good hunting culture as well. So, yeah, that's why it's shocking. Yeah. Like obviously if numbers get too far out of control, for sure. But trying to eradicate the whole species is just ridiculous. I was telling someone about, just, I think it might've been just yesterday about, I was actually in New Zealand, I was climbing a mountain. I don't know if I told this story here or not. And like, I, I had to like, I had ice spikes on and ice acts to get up there and I shot a bull tar. And as I was up there, I heard something and looked up and could see all this snow and ice flicking up in the air. And then I've seen a frigging tar, like full doing cartwheels through the air, falling off the mountain and I had to grapple to the mountain to make sure it wasn't going to hit me. And this tar fell down the bottom. I ended up getting down the bottom. She was dead already. Like she'd splattered on the rocks, but I ended up putting another two out of their miseries that had broken, they had broken legs. And it's just like, you hardly ever see nature slip up like that. Right. You know, and it's just about this day, the sun come out, melded that top layer of snow. Then it come over freezing cold. So it was just like slick ice up on the mountain. And then, so they were falling off and quite a few of them in the end. So yeah, pretty, New Zealand's like, you know, you, people always ask me like, what's the most scariest place to hunt, you know? And it's like, fucking New Zealand. It doesn't even have scary animals. Didn't you break your leg up there and have to get a helicopter down or something? I actually fractured my spine. I haven't told that story. That's how long it's been. It's been bloody five years since I did a podcast. I think that was year four, four years ago. Yeah. I was on a hunt. I climbed in over a couple of days up the mountain, like started from the bottom, climbed up the top. I was chasing Shemi, you know, Shemi? Yeah. I was chasing Shemi, which is like regarded as one of the hardest animals to harvest with a bow. And they're not necessarily hard animals to stalk. They're just hard to get to. But really cool hunt. Good, really good eating, you know, great experience. And I think I ended up killing Shemi on day four and the weather was rolling in right, really bad. And I actually climbed into a, you know, pretty horrible spot, but I was confident in doing it because I was always going to get a helicopter out, you know, like get an animal on the ground, process it, pack up camp, call in a helicopter and get the helicopter back off the mountain because going down can be pretty risky. It's it, it always feels safer going up than actually coming down with a bunch of weight on your backpack. And I looked at the weather, had a GPS on me, which could tell me the weather. And I looked at the weather and it was coming in really bad for like the next four or five days was forecast. So I called the helicopter in a little bit early, but they're like, Hey, there's a, there's a gap in the weather. We can come and pick you up right now. And I'm like, yeah, look, look, let's get it done. I was pretty keen to get off the mountain. I was only like camped on this tiny little spot, like a tiny little flat spot that just sort of fit the tent and like me coming out the front of it. And the back of it was just like sheer cliff for like 200 yards straight down. Yeah. It was pretty, pretty sketchy spot, but the weather was still good. I felt comfortable there. I can hear the helicopter coming in and as the helicopter's coming in, these fucking horrible clouds just start rolling in like at my heart. And I hear the helicopter coming in, coming in, but it sounds like it's freaking below me. And I've just got me sleeping, not me sleeping bag out me mattress. Cause it's bright orange to flag them down in like the clouds. So I've walked onto the far side of the tent and I can just every now and then see these lights flashing. And they're like a hundred yards below me flying in the clouds. And I hear this chopper like coming in. I'm like, it's gonna, I thought it was going to smash straight into the mountain and you see him coming in, coming in. Like, I mean, it's like sheer rock straight below me and the helicopter's below me. And then they seen that they were about to fly into the rock wall and then they pulled back and then I just heard them leave and I'm like, fuck, I'm here now for the next four or five days. What sucked was in the panic of them saying, yeah, we're coming to pick you up now. I packed up and got super wet, like packing up in the snow, starting to drizzle out of them clouds. So I was already wet. My sleeping bag was wet. Everything was wet from packing up. I'm like, shit, I probably should start hiking out. And then, so I looked at my GPS and it looked at the time like it was a pretty gradual climb all the way down into this Creek. Like, so there's a glacier up above me and it's been melting for however many years and it's carved out like a bit of a Creek. And so it looks safe. And then I started climbing down and the first, I don't know, two hours wasn't too bad. Like it was pretty gradual, like a bit of rock hopping and slippery stuff. And I had one little leap to do. It was like two and a half meters or a meter down onto a rock to go out to this next rock. And it was like, there was a big glacier pool below me. And it sounds weird, but you're calculating everything as you go on, you know? So it's like, this is the best place to jump down because if I did fall, at least I'm landing in water. And that's just a two second process in your head, you know? And that's happening all day. Like there's never a point that you can switch off in that country. Like you're constantly on the ball, otherwise that's when you're going to come unstuck. Anyway, what I didn't realize was the rock that I was jumping down onto had actually quite a bit of a slope to it. And it had like clear ice, a layer of clear ice on it. And you've got to remember, I've got this chamois in my backpack and frigging wet everything because I packed up in the wet. So the pack weighs a lot and it weighs a lot anyway, because you're going back for like 14 days. Man, I hit this rock and my feet come out from under me that fast. It was just like full chest weight on the rock, bang, started sliding off the rock backwards. So I'm on my stomach, sliding backwards, legs going first and I slide off the back of that rock and I've got a heavy backpack on. So it just pulled me. I just started plumbing down to this ice cold water and like back neck first straight into the water. And I just remember hitting the water. It pulled me all the way under, like it was a good enough fall, probably six, seven meters down into it from where the rock slid off. And it pulled me under. I just remember my breath getting sucked out. I mean like, I mean like it's crystal clear, like that blue water straight off a glacier. And it ripped me down and then sort of, I struggled to come back up, get to the surface and by the time I got to the surface, because it was flowing pretty hard, it was pushing me into one of the drainage chutes from it. And then so I hit this drainage chute, sort of scrambling, trying to grab on and then it pulled me down legs first as well, like down into the chute in the next lot of water. Then by the time I got to that point, there was no, like there was no going back up. There was no chance I could go back up because it's dropped me into a spot where I wasn't on the sides of the bank anymore. I was stuck in this glacier melt. And then I end up getting out of there and I got to the next point. There was like a big tree like falling down in the water. There's no trees on the side. It's just whatever's been washed down over the years, like a big stump. And I ended up wrapping my hand around that, my arm around that, get to my legs and then like weighed twice as much again because now everything's, you know, full of water and soaked. You still have the pack on. Yeah, I still got the pack on. And then I got like got up on the rock then and it's just like one rock in all this water. And then it's a fucking long story, so I'll probably skip a few bits. But I end up like fighting with it for the rest of the day. And then I end up falling over another two times. One time I actually had to volunteer to jump. I had nowhere to go. I was just like stuck in this little canyon in the water and I literally had to come up with the guts to be like jump into the next water shoot, which is just like a slide cut out of the rocks from the water running down there for fucking millions of years. And I've still got my backpack on. I can't leave nothing because that could be what saves me at the end of the day. I've got a sleeping bag. I've got other clothes in there. I've got meat from the chamois. I had the skin from the chamois. I still had everything in there. And I like, have you ever done anything where you fucking like probably got to convince yourself to do it? Because like I was, I didn't know if that was going to kill me going to the next step or if that was going to save my life. And then so you're calculating all that and then having to have the guts to actually jump into the next shoot of water and go down. Man, I fucking, I just remember just fucking doing it. And I jumped perfect. I landed on the backpack. I put all the weight on the backpack, sleet into the next bit, just like pumped with adrenaline, right? So I'm not even feeling the cold at this point because adrenaline is just going sick. And I ended up going down a bit further and then I could just hear this like deafening sound of water. And I'm like, fuck me, dude. Like what next? Because constantly it seemed to be like, what next? What next? What's next? And I hear this deafening sound of water and I get to the fucking edge and it's like three, 400 yards straight down. Oh my God. And it's just like, like then it was like, no, there's no going any further. You're like to go further is definitely deaf. You need to work something out here, you know? And it got to the point, it takes a lot of courage to even be like, I need someone to save me. Like, at least for me, because I've always, you know, like it's, it's the way that you're brought up, the way that I was brought up. Cause you know, I'd never had the father figure in my life. I didn't have any of that. So it was always everything I do, I do for myself. That's why I never usually ask people for help. This is the biggest ask for help there fucking is. And it's pressing the SOS button on the emergency device, you know? And it's like, and I sat there for 20 minutes and still pumped with adrenaline over that time. I fucking like getting adrenaline talking about it now. And then realizing there's fucking definitely no way off here. It's time to hit the button. Like this is where you don't get to see your family again, or you don't get to do any of this again, or live life. You need to hit the button and just fucking like still hitting the button hurt. And you've got to hold it in for like 10 or 20 seconds. It was fucking the longest 10 seconds of my life. And like at this point I've taken the backpack off. I took a jacket off because it was just so fucking heavy and wet. And it's sitting there and I'm holding the button in for like 10 seconds. And it's like, then it's like SOS, you know? And it's like, oh shit. And then, but there's no reply to it or anything like that at that point. It sort of just says the signal successful as in scent. And that's about it. And it's getting late and I'm like, I need to set up some sort of camp. I need to go from my pack, see what I can use, like what's going to work out here. And I pulled my pack out and then like, I've only got a spot that's like the size of one body laying down to even stand on in this area. And it's barely flat. The only thing that's kept it flat is the trees falling off from up at the Alpine tops at some point in its life, fallen down there. And then all the shale and rock that's fallen off these big washouts with the water has like leaned up against that big stump. So it's like laid out a flat bit and I could fit about three quarters of a little one person tent on there. And so I set the tent up there. I set the mattress that I was telling you that I was trying to flag down the helicopter. If I'd set that just on there, that just sat on there. And then I pulled the sleeping bag out and it was fucking soaked. Like the sleeping bag was drenched and I'm like, it's still going to be something. And went for the rest of my pack. I pulled the shammy skin out and sort of laid that there hoping it'd give me some warmth as well. And I've like stripped down then all the like bigger layers to try and get that off me. And I climbed in this wet cold sleeping bag, which is the worst feeling fucking ever in that situation. Like you do, you're starting to think like this is the end, this might be death. And I climbed in there. I was trying to get warm. And then I kept looking at that signal, but my phone, like it's through my phone. My phone, it's usually through my phone, sorry. My phone had already died. So it's just through the little device. And remember the old phones, how you had to go through the fucking alphabet on them to type a message. I'm trying to type a message to my buddy that was keeping tabs on me as all this was happening. And the message just went out as in, I need help. And he, like, I've been around this dude for forever. He's one of my best friends. So he knows what I'm like. He knows if I'm like, I fucking need help. That it's not good. You know? And that message, I didn't know if it went out or not. I had to turn it off because I had like four or 5% in it. So I shut it down. Anyway, I'm laying in there, laying in there. And then obviously the adrenaline's coming off. And I think I dozed off for a little while. It might've been 40 minutes or so. It's like a power nap. And I woke up and my body was just quivering flat out. Like, like from fucking deep in, it was just quivering flat out. And that feels like death. That probably that actually scared me. Cause like I couldn't stop. I was just fucking quivering flat out. Like, my core was trying to warm back up. And it took me to, took me a little while to think about that. Cause I shut, I ended up shutting myself down. I stopped myself shaking. And then I was like, you fucking idiot. That's exactly what your body's supposed to do. It's trying to warm up. And then I sort of loosened up again and it started shaking. And then I went to move this arm and this leg and they wouldn't move. Like I couldn't move them. And then I was like, oh shit. Like as in the adrenaline, it was from that first fall, I think, or it was from the jump that I did. Um, I don't know if I'd bruised it. I don't know if it's about nearly hypothermic. I don't know what really happened there. I just, I just couldn't move that leg and I couldn't move this arm. So then that scared me a bit too. And I started thinking about Kim and the kids and like, like shook me up and then, and I got teary as well, which was weird. Cause then I fucking warmed up. Like when all that happened, I was starting to warm up. Anyway, I tried to sleep. You can't sleep here in a wet sleeping bag. It's free. Like everything's fucking frozen around you. There's fucking rocks rolling from the top of the fucking mountain down into the river. That what the Creek that's now turned into a river. There's rocks rolling down there. You listen to that all night. There's like smaller debris and rocks hitting the tent. And it's just like, and you can't move cause I'm on a pad this big. Anyway, I don't even know how, but the morning came at some point I got up, turn the GPS back on. No, there was no message. No nothing. So I hit the SOS one last time and I held it in. Nothing, nothing. I think I sat around for the first couple of hours of morning, like just holding me chest and stuff like that, trying to get warm again. And I got to the point and it's like, no one's coming for you. Like it's fucking on you. And that was the best thing that happened to me because it was almost like I hit the button and it was almost like a give up as in like, Oh, someone's coming for me. It's fine. You know? And then it wasn't until I realized and said to myself, no one's fucking coming, just fucking get up and do something. And I was like, I'm fucking going to start a fire. Even if it takes me half a day, at least this is turning. Let's try and start a fire. Let's do something, you know, like fucking stay in it. And then, so I started pulling all the different rubbish out of me bag that I carried from the trip. I started piling that up. There's like no branches or anything around. So then I'm back at that tree where my tent was and I'm trying to carve into that tree, like to try and get into the middle of it, try and find some dry cause it's, you know, it's been raining for, you know, a day and a half now, maybe even longer down low. Cause I descended so far down and then I'm trying to get in there and I'm like, I'll burn the tent. I'll burn. What else can I burn? You know, I started thinking about all the things that I can burn. I'm like, yeah, if you're here for another night, you can't, you can't burn any of that. So I left the tent set up, left the chemis skin in there. And then I just got it to the point where I was like, I could probably start a fire now. It's not going to last long cause there's no wood on it. It's just all, you know, trash that I had in my bag. And then I started thinking, what else can I do? I'm like, you know, I'm going to build a fucking helicopter pad cause there was no, you know, it was all shit. Like no commercial helicopter could live there, land there. Only a rescue helicopter at that point could pick me up from where I was because they, you know, they could drop down a rope and lift me up. But if I build an actual pad, I knew once the weather cleared, I could just call in the commercial helicopter to pick me up. So I was like, fuck it. And I'm, so I started grabbing like rocks. It's just rocks everywhere. And I was going to build basically a retaining wall and then start feeling it. It would have taken days to do, but I was just keen to keep busy. And then I was fully trapped. I could not go back up. I couldn't go up the creek. I couldn't go up the sides. I definitely couldn't go down low and that raws the whole time right beside me, just screaming that water pumping down there. Anyway, so I start collecting rocks and then I thought I heard a fucking helicopter and I was like, fuck. And this is like, this is five or six hours now after morning and I'm listening and it's getting louder. I just see this fucking big helicopter bank up this, like it's a fucking, you're in a draw system in between these massive mountains and it just comes cruising straight around. And I was like, holy fuck. Like I was like so fucking pumped. And then this arm still wasn't working. I got this leg to start working in the morning. This arm still wasn't working properly. And I was so fucking pumped. And the dude comes around and he gives me the thumbs up. Oh fuck man. My thumb must have been so straight. I was like this, you know, so excited. And then at the same time I was like, I don't want to leave any think I'm fucking rescued now. I don't want to leave anything behind. I don't want to leave this beautiful place like it's been touched. So I fucking packed up the tent, jammed the tarp, the chamois skin back in my backpack. I picked up the rubbish. I stuck that back in my backpack. The dude sort of had to look around to make sure it was good to come down. He just come down on this winch dude. I fucking gave him a big hug. Wow. And he's like, how the fuck did you get here? Wow. And I was, I was like, I came from the top and he's like, hold, cause I seen this fucking rock face that was straight below me. And I was thinking they wouldn't even take my backpack to tell you the truth. And I'm like, just leave the backpack here. And he's like, yeah, but I'll bring it up on the next run. And then fucking, he lift me up. I got into this big bird, right. Went back down, fucking come back up with the fucking, the backpack and everything. And I'm like, how did you know that I was here? And my buddy actually rallied the locals and they come out as a training exercise because I didn't actually even get the fucking SOS that I was down there. Oh my God. So they come out there as a training exercise and pick me up knowing that I was probably there, but that's how they had to hope I'm not getting them in trouble by saying this. I doubt it. Anyway, they fucking probably saved my life, so they shouldn't be in trouble, but they come out as a training exercise and come and pick me up. What would you have done? I don't know. I couldn't, I, I don't think I could have physically went anywhere without greatly in danger in my life more than what it already was. Like there, I had a chance to survive for so long, but walking anywhere from there, there was such a great chance of fucking dying within the first couple of minutes. Down was a hundred percent death, a hundred percent death going down. All these rocks of ice all over them, she fucking dropped down there. And then when I flew out of there in the helicopter, I just kept looking to see if, if I had done that somehow, if I could have went and cause you couldn't jump off the waterfall. Cause it just hits massive big rocks down the bottom. It's not hitting in big waterfall, big rocks down the bottom. Past that point was fucking dozens of spots as bad as that going along the way that there was no way I was going further anyway. So even if I risked limb and limb to go further, I was still fucked and you couldn't get back up. Couldn't get back up. I was, I was in such a shit spot. And that shit spot, it's probably the only thing that saved you. It is the only thing that saved me. But the thing that saved me self, cause I'm like, you're fucked if you go beyond here, this is, this is where you stay. You know, this is, this is as far as you go, you know. So that SOS message that I sent out, the international rescue center got that message. One guy got that message. Then they tried to call me on my mobile phone number. I'm fucking hitting the GPS fucking SOS cause your phone don't work. Otherwise I would have called authorities off my phone and sent me an email to be like, we didn't get the message correctly. We're not sure where exactly where you are. And it's just like, well at least send one. And then the dude went on a fucking two hour lunch break. Isn't that insane? I was reassured afterwards that they put all their stuff through training again. So that wouldn't happen again. So hopefully I've saved someone else along the line. That sounds like a terrible place to visit. They said, do you want to go to the hospital or do you feel okay? And I said, I feel okay. And they dropped me back at my vehicle, which was parked at like sort of like a trailhead. And I got out of the flight and then I, and my bag was on the ground. So I hadn't even lifted the bag up yet. And I lent down to get the bag and I just fucking crippled. Like my back was like fucked, fucked up. And I got back to Australia and I went into the hospital cause I'm like, like it feels like my bladder's about to burst. My back's all fucked up. I can't move. I was all hunched over. They did X-rays and they're like, yeah, you got lines fractures through your spine. You're very lucky that it wasn't any worse. And it probably, I don't know a month later I was fully picking up dumb heavy things again. It felt all right. But yeah, so if anyone's like, what's, what's the scariest place to hunt? It's fucking New Zealand. No predators, no nothing. No Grizzlies, no saltwater crocodiles. It's still the scariest place to hunt. Like I've nearly come on stuck there twice now. You know, every year I hear about stories about guys, just a small slip on the mountain, but they just keep going and they're gone. So yeah, skip, skip NZ. Fuck. Damn. Four years ago, that story still works out. Do you, did you ever think about going back there? You know, it's funny because like I've done that real sketchy stuff in New Zealand four or five times now and I've shot tar and I've shot chamois and I've done them in beautiful ways. Like the bow walking from the bottom to the top and dazing and getting them. And it's like, and I want to do it again, but like how your fucking time comes up at some point, you know, and it's like, and I'm, I don't think I'm any more sensible than ever, but well, maybe I'm a bit more sensible. That would make sense because I'm a little, I don't have to do that again. I will do New Zealand again, but I won't do that sketchy country. And it's like, I'll do that because there's probably no one back there. Like that's what puts you there to start with. You're fully off the grid. You don't see any other hunters cause that's all public land in New Zealand, but you're back far enough and doing the dumb enough stuff that people don't do it. And it's, it is, it's, and you had no backup batteries. Do you keep backup batteries? Yeah, but they all froze and died that night in the tent where I told you I was in a shitty spot and I wanted to get the helicopter back in. That was a super cold night. And like I have spare batteries in my sleeping bag to keep them warm with me. They still all died. I got up in the morning, the phone was dead. My main camera battery was dead. Then a battery bank was dead as well. Yeah. But that's generally what I do. I've always got a spare battery and you just sort of lean on your phone for GPS for, you know, these new phones, at least in Australia now they've been trialing it. There's an SOS on your phone now. Yeah, that's iPhones too. Yeah. And it's, and it's really handy because you get to pick your situation, you know, car broken down in the middle of nowhere, immediate help, there's, there's different things. Cause I tested that out not long ago in remote Western Australia as well. You had to use that? Yeah, I did. Four car tires stuck in the middle of nowhere. And then, so I use that, got to tell them the problem and it's like, like proper communications, got to tell the authorities the problem. They notified police. I told them of two people that I knew of that could rescue me. One of them was my oldest son. And then yeah, he come out with spare tires and then rescued us like the next day. So we had a cold sleep in the car that night, me and a buddy Campbell, and he said like a single cab too. And I'm like, can't I'm in the front. He slept in the back. Yeah. And then he got the punches. So I've got the best spot. And then yeah, me son come out. But if it wasn't for that, like no vehicles came, we're broken down on the road in Australia and no vehicles drove past us in a day and a half. Like it's remote and it's hot. Like what are you going to, you've only got so much water that you can drink. You can't drink the radiator water. It's got fucking shit in it. So yeah, it's another quick and easy way to die. And you're on a road in Australia, you know? Yeah. Well, you do so many of those trips. It's remarkable that this has only happened a couple of times. I, I prepare, you know, and it's like, it mightn't sound like I was prepared that time in New Zealand and, you know, and on a couple other things, it's like, you're not prepared. You're not prepared. And it's like, well, I am prepared. I've was, I would have fucking died ages ago, you know? And it's like, you've always sort of got that back up and yeah, I think you've just got to be good in those situations. I've been in those situations with other people and they panic and they make more decisions that are bad, you know? Yeah. And it's so it's like, and it's realizing before you go in that this could be a part of this adventure, you know, but everyone's time comes up. You do, you do stupid stuff enough and fucking, yeah, you can only handle poisonous snakes for so long before one bite you. Yeah. So you're rolling the dice so often. Yeah. So it's like, I'm not going to roll the dice in New Zealand like that again. I'll roll the dice in grizzly country here. I know you have a truck that you have completely outfitted and set up, right? Yeah. Like the land crews, the 79 series, you just can't get them here. I was actually thinking about, because one of the next projects I want to do is buy land in America, build an off-grid cabin, have a nice big truck here and RV and like live that American dream, you know? And so I was like, I might freight my 79 series over here. Like it's fully decked out how I want it. It's like a frigging weapon, you know? Right. And I looked it up and got the price back and I was like, yeah, now I'll just buy an American truck when I get there. Well, you can, you can't buy a 79 here, we could buy an 80, an 80 series. That's yours. So the old one, yeah. But you got another one. Yeah. That's the new one's the same, but I've like extended the chassis, 300 mil. It's got, um, coil Springs the whole way around it. It's like the new one's like twice as decked out as that thing. Again, it just needs a try and a canopy. Do you have a video of that thing? I haven't posted much cause it's not finished, but yeah. But of that one? Of that one? Yeah, probably. Yeah. And so how long does it take to figure out like what to put in there and how to set it up and like, like how do you outfit something like that? I've spent more time and money on that truck than I have time driving it and money buying it from original. So it's like, that's at least a year in the making, you know, and it's just like, it goes to one place, gets one thing done and it's like, and you're trying to figure it out as you go to. Right. Well, some of the best off-road stuff comes from Australia. Old man emu, shocks. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's fanatics there and these fanatics have started their own business, you know? Like ARB's huge back home. Do you have ARB here? What is it? ARB. Yeah. Yeah. They're huge back home. Yeah. I have my Land Cruiser here. I spied it. I was like, Oh yeah. Yeah. Things decked out. That's my apocalypse vehicle. Is it ready to go? Well, that's what mine is. Yeah. You know, the back seat comes out. Yeah. It's removable. So the whole bed in the back behind the two front seats is flat. So I take it hunting. I take the back seat out. I can store all my stuff and if I have to sleep in it, I can sleep in it and it's got heated seats and leave it rigged up, ready to go. It's got a big ass gas tank. No, that's the same one. Yeah. No, I, I really haven't posted much on this. It's just like, I've just been building it and just, it's, yeah, it's going to be the ultimate, at least for me in Australia. I've been driving a Tesla around here in Austin. What is this? The opposite. It's the so opposite, but it suits people here in the city. Right. Well, it's bizarre how fast it is. Oh yeah. Yeah. And just dead school. Just why you go. Yeah. Yeah. It just goes, yeah. Just have a cyber truck yet? No, I drove one. I mean, I saw one, uh, last week, uh, Elon shot it with an arrow. That's the one you shot. Yeah. So like, obviously he's the owner, so he's not choked up about it. He's not even sure. Yeah. Yeah. It sounded like he wanted to see, well, he knew that it wasn't going to go through. Yeah. I wish I had a single bevel. That's all as soon as I see wrong arrow. Yeah. Yeah. I think I could have got in there and tried like an iron will. I did. Um, we did all these tests on, um, that arrow. Um, the nexus nexus arrows that we made with a solid broadhead on it shooting all sorts of dumb, dumb things, you know, but like I had like a gas, like a solid gas can there and it would piers that and that's the two blade broadhead field point wouldn't piers it just about every other broad that I shot, shot it, I just snapped and crumbled or bent over. But what they actually struggled with was just pool glass. Like the glass, like the arrow wouldn't break the glass from a pool, you know, like the pool fencing glass. And so it's not as strong as like armor glass or anything like that. Interesting. The arrow would bounce off it and survive, but it took like four shots to break that glass. Huh? It would punch through any metal you shot of that, but it wouldn't go for that glass. Wow. I don't know why. I don't know how it handles that shock, but yeah, it was, it was quite incredible. But yeah, as soon as I say it, I'm like, Oh damn. I know. That's all I had here. I was thinking if I had an iron will and if I had my 90 pound bow and I had, you know, a collar on the front of the arrow, I had all these thoughts in my head. Punch it. But I used a three blade and it just bounced. How cool is that? Cause if that was a normal car, it would have ended up in the door on the other side. 100% went right through. Yeah. Windows up, obviously. So you're not hitting like glass through the window, but it just would have punched straight through. Yeah. No, those things are extraordinary. It's a crazy car. I mean, the fact that he's decided to make it Bulletproof for no reason other than it's cool. And then, um, Dorian sent me like this link to this company that's making like the campers for the back of them now. Oh yes. Oh, it looks epic. It looks so cool. But you only have a certain amount of mileage. Yeah. Mileage dwindles substantially when it gets cold. Yeah. That's why it wouldn't suit me in Australia. Not because of the cold. No solar. You can't really charge it with solar. Much more electricity than solar. You have to lay out a giant grid of solar and leave it there for a few days. Yeah. I feel like it makes sense if you're got solar on your house, then you plug it in at your house to recharge it. Yeah. You know that, that makes a lot of sense. And so I looked into electric vehicles in this house that we're living in now cause I decked the roof out with solar and I was like, I'll put a smart charger and everything in there. We'll just get an electric vehicle for just doing the town staff or the kids are growing up. So they're getting their driver's license and you know, a nice safe car like that. But by the time I looked into it, I'm like, it's just not practical for me and the rest of the family too. Cause they're always going and doing things far away places as well. So yeah, that's the thing about the kind of stuff that you do. Like you could never take a cyber truck into the Northern country. Northern territory would not make it. Just sitting there on my phone, like waiting for it to recharge. You'd get 300 miles away and it would die. Done. There's nothing you can do. Whereas all my cars have long range fuel tanks on them. So you're good for a thousand kilometers and just like, and it's a long time between fuel stations in some of that remote country as well. Right. And do you have to make sure that you drive a certain speed so that you don't burn up too much gas? Are you cognizant of that? No, not really. I've usually got plenty of spare that. How much, how big is the gallon? I mean, how many liters? What's liters? How many liters is it? So I've got one 30, which is the main tank. So 130 liters for the main tank and then 90 liters for the auxiliary tank. And it's just on a switch. What is, is that like 60 gallons? 130 liters is how many gallons? Jamie? 60, 50. Oh, 35. That's it. Yeah. Mine's bigger than that. Yeah. Is it? Yeah. I got a 40. Wow. Nice. Yeah. So you bought that like when the shit was going down in LA, I was starting to think this shit was going to go down in LA before I was thinking about earthquakes and things like that. If you get trapped and you have to drive off road, I wanted something that was lifted, something that had real off-road vehicle suspension, real power. It's got a supercharged Corvette engine in it. Like I had it decked out. Ready for COVID 2.0. Well, it was before COVID that I had it built. I've always been worried. Oh, you should see. Especially living in LA. Like you're better off being worried and prepared than not at all, right? I want to say worried. What I worry about, like a legit worry at night when I'm alone, and I've been doing this a lot lately is global war. I'm really worried about that. That gives me real legitimate anxiety sometimes when I'm alone. When I'm alone at late at night. That's not of our hands. I know. That's part of the reason why I think I worry about it. The world has never seemed more haywire than right now to me. Never seemed more vulnerable. And there's so much... There's just so much tension. And there's so much... Between this Palestine-Israel thing and the Ukraine-Russia thing, and then China and Taiwan, there's so much potential for chaos. There's so much potential for horrors. And it just... Sometimes I just really freak out. I think about it a lot, but more for my kids' sake. Yeah, that too. Well, if you have to provide for your kids, like how? What do you do? How long before you're out of water? How long before you're out of food? How many bullets do you have? What do you do? Yeah. I'm fortunate enough to be very prepared in that situation. Like going on the farm and it's got water on it, water tanks are full and providing for ourselves and things like that. Well, if you could get to your farm, also there's so much game out there. You would be... As long as these assholes don't keep fucking gunning them down from helicopters. But for the people that live in towns and cities, it's just like, what's your option? Not much. Not much. It's such a precarious scenario because so many people have had things provided for them for so long. They have no skills, no understanding, no knowledge, no ability. They would have to learn from scratch while starving. And that's terrifying. And that's just assuming you're not getting attacked. That's assuming you haven't been invaded. It's assuming that you haven't been hit with a nuclear bomb and everything's gone. It's assuming the power grid's up. It's assuming there's gas to pump. There's so many variables that are completely out of your hands. And because of what's going on in the world right now, I've never felt more like things could fall apart at any moment. Again, it's always late at night when I'm by myself. I just think... Because as a father, a husband and a provider, you think like you have to figure out a way to take care of everybody. How do you take care of everybody? And then there's the walking dead scenario. You got to really worry about people. When resources get scarce, people get sketchy. As soon as people get desperate. It's very, very, very scary. Some of these streets look like the walking dead already, man. Just go to LA. Like four years out of the country and then coming into some of the cities that I've... Like I've always said like Salt Lake, Austin's the most beautiful cities that I've ever been to. So it was really in my face when I come back here. I'm like, is this COVID? Is this the current government? What is this? And how do you battle this now? It's fentanyl. It's COVID. It's the current government. I mean, one of the things we found out about Los Angeles is the people that are working on the homeless situation are being paid exorbitant amounts of money. Like there's people that work on the COVID situation or excuse me, the homeless situation in Los Angeles that are making $240,000 plus a year. And there's no incentive whatsoever to fix it. And there's so much bureaucracy. Cash count now. They probably don't want to fix it. Right. Well, they have no incentive. The incentive is to keep the problem going so that they keep getting these cushy jobs. That's what they have. That's a sad statement to face. And there's no performance benefit. Like they're not paid based on the amount of homeless people that are moved into shelters and reintegrated into society. No, they're just paid because there's a homeless problem and there's a budget. We need to raise the budget for the homeless problem. We need to fix the unhoused situation. Sure you do. But what you really need to do is keep getting paid. And that's what a lot of them are doing. And there's no hope in sight. And it seems to me that it's reached a tipping point that once things get so sideways that people are just camping out in the streets. When you go to Los Angeles, like there's parts of Los Angeles, you're like, what the fuck is going on? Like this is not sustainable. I have a friend who had a house in Venice and in front of his house, 30 feet from his house, there's people camping. 30 feet, like right outside his house. You've got crackheads. People are openly doing drugs and fentanyl and they're tapping into the power lines and shit. And they're putting generators in these tents. Like they have no plans on leaving and there's no one to force them out. No one to try to say, Hey, you can't do this. You can't litter on the street, but you can pile all your bullshit on the street. All your garbage, human shit. And then you have places like Skid Row, which Mike Glover who runs, he runs, I forget the name of his organization, but it's a preparedness organization where it teaches people how to prepare for the worst and what you have to do if something happens. And he said Skid Row was the worst place he's ever seen at all the places he's been to, all the third world places he's been around the world in terms of like just the sheer amount of homeless people, the open air drug use, the no, no hope, no law enforcement, no nothing. It's just fucking, I've noticed the last two trips just, it seems to be a lack of law enforcement out there. Yeah. Well it almost seems like it's engineered. I mean if you were a real conspiracy theorist, you would think it's engineered to collapse society. And I'm sure there's some very legitimate people that can't help being on the streets at the moment, whether it's from job loss through COVID, whether it's from mental illness, it's mostly mental illness and drug abuse. People want to label it as a job loss, but it seems like if you talk to the people that actually understand the situation, that's very little of it because there's resources for those people, but there's not resources for people that are like severely mentally ill. And also there's many cities that incentivize people. They actually give people money to stay homeless. They pay them, they give them a monthly stipend and they live on the street and they get like 600 bucks a month. And they, something needs a change in the system mate. And the thing is these fucking people keep voting the same way. They want things to go the same. I just don't know what they think. They think that voting any other way is racist, sexist, transphobic, Islamophobic, xenophobic. It's like they have this fucking ideology in their head. Like they're in a cult and they think their way is the only way to do it. And as long as they're safe in their home, they don't take into consideration what the overall effect on society, all of these laws and lack of enforcement of laws. I mean, there's so many cities that all these businesses like San Francisco businesses are just pulling out left and right because they're just constantly getting robbed. They're constantly getting looted. You go to a drug store in San Francisco, everything's locked up. Everything. It's all behind locks and cabinets and people just go in there and steal whatever they can. They can't stop them. They're not allowed to stop them. You're allowed to steal $900 worth of stuff. Oh my God, I've seen those videos. Fucking insane. It's insane. It's a complete collapse of society. And again, it happens so quickly that you have to kind of extrapolate and go from here in 2023 and say, well, what's it look like in 2033? Because in 2013 you saw none of this. Do you remember any camping on the streets? Nope. Jamie, do you remember any camping on the streets in 2013? I don't remember any. Some of it. In LA, yeah, sure. Maybe in Skid Row. Not a lot. There was homelessness in Skid Row. There definitely wasn't like it is here. And not what I've seen in Salt Lake like last month. No, you see it in Salt Lake. You see it in Minnesota. It's really bad in Minneapolis. It's really bad in Detroit. It's really bad right now in New York because they made it a sanctuary city. So then you have all these... And so the way the New York State works, Coleman Hughes, who was on the podcast before, explained it, that it's actually a New York State law where you have to provide housing to homeless people. But that was supposed to be for people that lived there. So these people have come here from South America, Mexico, and they've made it a sanctuary city. And so now you have entire hotels that are no longer hotels. They're just loaded up with these migrants. And, you know... So the next president, if he's up to it, is going to have a hell of a job in front of him. Good fucking look. And how do you get past the New York State law that says that you have to have housing for these people? You have to change the law. That's insane. And New York is... They don't want to hire Republicans. Everybody's a Democrat. There's no one person that can do this job. Like seriously, like there's not. No. But then the problem is, even with a whole party involved, they get fought against so hard. But how can they make up any ground to really change? Well, that's a giant problem with our system, this two-party system. It's just so crazy. You know, and it's also a problem when people get into power and they want you to listen to them. And you saw that in Australia with the COVID thing. They just decided... I mean, I thought of Australia as this rugged individualist place that's all about freedom. And then COVID came and it was just like, you have to take this experiment. It really came down to state to state. So I tell this story all the time. So, because we're governed by the mines, because that's where all of our work is. And then the government pushed onto the mines that to work on the mines, you had to be vaccinated. Right? So, and the community that we're in is like all mine-based. It's a mining community. So they all got vaccinated. I didn't have to go to the site. I just stayed in the office and my home and did my own thing. So I didn't have to get vaccinated, but all my workers had to get vaccinated or they didn't have a job because I couldn't send them to a job site. So that was even pushed down to me. We did a few things around that, but anyone that had to go to the mine sites, went and got vaccinated, they still all got COVID. They still all spread it. They still all had to have time off work because they were sick. And a decent amount of them got really sick after having the COVID vaccination and some of them long-term. So it did nothing. That was proof that the vaccination did nothing. Cause I lived in a community where everyone had to get vaccinated. Like I said, they still got sick. They still spread it. They still had to have time off work. Yeah. They were lied to, they were told that it was going to stop transmission. I mean, there's that famous Rachel Maddow clip where she was like, if you get vaccinated, the virus stops with you. It was bullshit. It was never even tested to do that. It was tested to provide these antibodies. Does it give you antibodies? They never tested it to stop transmission. And they had to admit that over time, but this has just been the story of pharmaceutical drugs in America. The massive amount of profit that they can make by forcing people to do that. Just that amount of money just went really far to enforcing this because so many people were on the take. Whether they were on the take voluntarily, whether they were on the take psychologically, cause they, this was set up as the one way to get out of this and everybody believed them. I felt like Australia was like, Oh, what's that country doing? We better do that. And it made me realize how badly the government's actually run. It's like the worst run business there is. And it should be the best run business model there is. And it's the worst. Cause I would just scramble, no, you need to do this. Oh, COVID stays in the air for three hours. You know, you need to wear a mask, but if you're eating or drinking, you can have it off. And it's like people sit. So what's the fucking difference? You're on a plane ride for like six hours to WA, Western Australia. And like everyone's got their mask on. And then when the food gets served, everyone's got their mask down. This is dumb shit. This is so dumb. You know, and it's just like, what was the death toll from people committing suicide? Cause I couldn't do what kept them mentally healthy anymore. Yeah. Like what they, they, they weren't comparing apples to apples. Also how many people turned to alcoholism and family breakups and stuff like that. It was just, it was ridiculous. So they, they, they weren't, they were just, well, they destroyed the economy in so many cities too. I mean, Los Angeles, especially the restaurant economy, Los Angeles lost like 70% of the restaurants at one point, which is just madness. Yeah, it is. And it's just poor policymaking because that didn't happen in Florida. No, we were actually, me and Kimmy were in New Zealand in the back country when it really properly broke out. Like we'd heard about it on the news. Don't really follow it. Don't really follow the news, but you know, you will hear and about it in China and things like that. And we're in New Zealand, me, Kimmy and a good friend, Tyler in the back country. And there's one rise that you come up and you just get a little bit of phone reception there. And we'd touch base with the kids, you know, each afternoon, each night there. And we come up to this rise and I start getting messages flat out, you know, it's my son Noah. And it's, he's like, you just need to come home. You need to get home now. They're shutting down the world basically. And so I get that message and I'm like, shit. And I turn around and Kim and Tyler behind me and the sun's gone down. So the ground's dark, but the sky's slightly lit up still. And I just see these 14 bright as fuck lights in a row, like leaving like the atmosphere, like cruising across like the horizon. And the first thing that jumps into my head after getting that message and COVID's gone mad is like all the fucking rich and famous, like Joe Rogan's on one of them ships. And I seriously fought that. I was like, there's ships leaving the earth. It's gone to shit. And I was like, and I said to Kim, I'm like, holy fuck, what's that? And they both looked up and were like, holy shit, straight away I'm on my phone, 14 lights in a straight line. And it's fucking the launch of Starlink. And so the sun was still hitting them and, you know, making them glow obviously. And you thought people were leaving earth cause earth was going to blow up. It was fucked. COVID's real. Well, that's the real scenario. That's the real scary scenario. Cause COVID, you know, although people did lose their lives and the economy got destroyed and it was a catastrophe and a pandemic, it's fairly minor compared to something that could happen if we got hit by a meteor. Oh, a hundred percent. If there was a nuclear war. You know? Yeah. So you do have to be prepared to go for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's I, they can't, I don't think they can pull the wool over our eyes like that. Well, but you know, it's a little bit more. It's like the boy that's cried Wolf though. Like what if there is something legit next time and it is a legit vaccination. Like most of us are going to be like, nah, fuck that. I'm not doing that shit again. Right. But what if it is legit, you know? So it's, it's, that's a long discussion. It is. It's bad in both ways. Now there's talk of at least in Australia and I haven't read too much on it cause it's been hard to find since that there's a vaccination that cattle are going to get. And for anything to go to the stock, the stock yards, like the sale yards for cattle, they have to have this vaccination. That vaccination gets passed on to people. Yeah. Through food, through food. And, and, and like right now I'm trying to buy acreage cause I want to run unvaccinated cattle, like pure blood cattle. You could call it and sell direct to consumer. Cause I believe that's going to be a big market in that. And you don't take your cattle to the market to be sold. They get sold through you direct because if that's something that comes out, I'm not going to want that made Eva cause I'll meet and meet now and I'm fine. I'm happy. Why am I going to change anything? Why am I going to get the vaccination? I've had something that they can profit off of. They're going to do. And if they can profit off of forcing cattle to get vaccinated, then these pharmaceutical drug companies can force these cattle ranchers to make sure they vaccinate their cattle. It's fucking mad. It's really crazy. And it just shows what happens when absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. When money gets involved and you know, there's just so much money was made and now they're scrambling to figure out how to try to make that kind of money again. Do it again. It's like they made hundreds of billions of dollars in profit and then it went off. Like nobody's wants the COVID vaccine now that the, the compliance for the new boosters and the bivalent boosters is like far, far, far lower because everybody got COVID anyway. So many people were like, well, fuck this. Yeah. And look, it was shit. Like the first time I got it, it was shit. You know, it didn't feel great, but I've had the flu before and I've had colds before. And then the next time I got it, I had it for a day and a half. Right. But nobody ever told you how to get a flu vaccine. Nobody said you have to do this. There was such a lack of information. I don't know if it was the same here, but there was such a lack of information. Like what are the home remedies? You know what? Well, that was the thing. There was a lot of misinformation on purpose and that's why I got caught up in that where they were accusing me of taking veterinary medicine. You guys are out of your fucking mind. You're literally talking about ivermectin, which is a drug that's in the world health organization list of essential medications. People have been taking, there's fucking billions of prescriptions have been handed out to humans to call that a veterinary meditation medication. That's like saying penicillin is a veterinary medicine medication because they use it on animals too. It's fucking mad. And the media was involved in tactics, big business tactics that show you that our media is bought and paid for, which is really scary. At least in Australia, you don't have advertisement for pharmaceutical drugs on television. Whereas they have that here in America. Flat out. Yeah. Flat out. Yeah. And it's everywhere. And at the end they have to list all the side effects. May include rectal bleeding. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Suicidal thoughts. Hey, hey, hey, hey. I think it was like, faith in the government. Oh no. Yeah. It might've been a Chris rock joke. And he's, you know, he's like, do you wake up tired? You need this pill. And it's like, who the fuck doesn't wake up feeling tired? Right. Well, that's the thing. If you can advertise for things, you could always come up with a reason why people need that. That's the Sackler family. That's what they did with that. If you've seen that Netflix documentary, um, on the Sackler family and, Oh my God, the people that pushed opioids on Americans. Yeah. Yeah. We got the entire fucking country hooked on heroin and they did it by telling you, you know, pain, what about breakthrough pain? You just need a little bit more. Your body telling you something else. I got, I, and this is how I've been my whole life. I try not to take anything unless I absolutely have to. Yes. You know, and even at that point, I'm like, ah, it's just a headache. It's going to go away. Do I really need to take something for it? Everything has a side effect. Yeah, it does. It's like, I'll take, cause I'll take that to fix that. But then it's going to feel like it's going to burn a hole in my gut, you know, or something along those lines, you know. The one thing I have been trying to take in Australia, which is so frigging difficult to get is like a plasma injection. I've had this fucked heel for like 12 years. Oh, like PRP me? Yeah. I've been to multiple doctors and this last one sort of heard me out. I struggle with, I struggled with it for the last 10 years. What is it? What's wrong? I split my heel in three places. The bone? Yeah. In the bone. And then there's a scar tissue or a fragment of bone above it. Now to do keyhole surgery could make it actually worse. So they don't want to do that. And I don't want to do that cause I'm putting up with it, but it takes the edge off a lot of my nicer thoughts when I'm hiking and hunting. I can't run anymore because of it. Cause the next day it blows up and my heels all twisted and everything like that. So they've been giving me quarter zone. I've had two quarters on injections. It wears off after two days and I'm pretty sure it only works for the first two days cause they put a numbing injection in there first. So I don't feel it. Right. It's really hard to get in Australia or they just don't want to give it. And the last doctor's like, Oh, it's really expensive. I'm like, I don't care. Like I want this fixed. That's my life. You know, I want this fixed. And I said, and that actually could kill me because it stopped me from having the right balance on that foot. And if I'm in sketchy country, that's the difference between falling and not so I want it good. You know? And the last doctor has heard me out about that, but he keeps giving me this quarter zone that case where enough you shouldn't get to any quarters on shots either. They're very bad for your joints. Yeah. Yeah. When have you looked into stem cells? Have you looked into like, there's some places I haven't only like listening to you and you sort of been a promoter of it. Yeah. I mean you've had MRIs on the seal. Yeah. Yeah. This, this places you can go specifically outside of the country that can really do some stuff, but they could do some things in America as well. You're talking about plasma and you're talking about platelet rich plasma, PRP injections. Is that supposed to be helping it or possible to help it? Yes. Possible to help it. But I've heard there's no side effects that even works or it doesn't. Yeah. Platelet rich plasma doesn't seem to have any significant side effects. It's your own blood. They take your own blood. They spin it back in your body. Yeah. Man. So like Mexico. Yeah. Tijuana is a really good spot. The CPI. Yeah. Okay. So I think I've seen Shane there lately. Yeah. He just went there. Yeah. He went there and got a bunch of stuff injected into his back. Yeah. Okay. Back and shoulders. He's got pretty significant injuries. Yep. Yep. Yeah. It's a sketchy. Yeah. I've had STEM cells. Yeah. I've had it in America. They've, uh, they cured my shoulder. I had a shoulder issue that my doctor was telling me, you're going to have to have surgery. And then I got, I had a full length rotator cuff tear and uh, six months later I went back, got an MRI. It's like, it's gone. Tear is gone. And I don't have any problems with that shoulder anymore. I mean zero. I lift weights with it. I do all kinds of things with it. It's very strong. Yeah. So that's the nice side of modern medicine, right? Yeah. Oh listen, I'm not anti modern medicine. Yeah. No, I don't matter. I've had multiple surgeries. A modern medicine is amazing. The problem is money. Yeah. The problem is not these people that are innovating and trying to figure out new ways to help people and heal people. The problem is that you have your scientists, you have your innovators and then you have the people that are selling it completely different human beings and those people don't give a fuck. They might as well be selling cigarettes. They might as well be selling, you know, nuclear waste. They don't give a shit. But it's fully promoted as good for our health. Like we're helping you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean they have, they have antidepressants that make you suicidal. So they provide you with another drug that you take with the antidepressant that is supposed to stop the suicidal thoughts. But those side effects for that also include suicidal thoughts. It's like, it's just wild shit. It's wild shit. And none of them, no one are saying that one of the main ways to stop depression is exercise and exercise is actually 1.25 times more effective than SSRIs. Yeah. But they're not prescribing exercise. They're not telling people, hey, I want you to hike an hour a day. I want you to jump rope. I want you to do sit ups. I want you to elevate your heart rate for 20 minutes, four times a week. And let's see if that helps you come back and feel good about yourself. Yeah. I'm change your diet. I get bored super easy. And I think like boredom is the other thing that sort of leads to like mental mental health issues and stuff like that. Like people that don't have their thing, you know, like I'm very lucky. You're very lucky. We've found something that we're really passionate about. And so you chase it. Yes. And originally that's the only reason I promoted bow on him. Cause I was like, who doesn't know this exists? Like if it makes me feel that healthy because of everything that goes with outdoors, exercise, everything like that. Yes. Who doesn't know this exists? Well, and they're all in the back country now, unfortunately, but you know, that's just the part of it. I still prefer to promote it and everyone know about it. Yeah, me too. You know, and, and someone's thing mightn't be bow on it. It might be collecting cards. I don't know. Anything, anything, but hopefully something that's difficult. Yes. Having that thing, you know, where you, and that's what I keep talking about. Like I'm constantly looking, what's the next way to test myself. I like those tests, you know, like I, I had that rough childhood, whatever, no excuses. Who gives a shit? You know, what else is difficult? You know, I beat that now. What else can I try and beat? You know, and I think that's helped me with other things in life. I would 100% have some serious mental issues and maybe suicidal if I didn't have my thing, you know, and you think can't be constantly work, you know, like that does keep you busy, but I always find that wears off over a certain period. You need a passion. Yeah. Have a passion. Find something, you know, and if that keeps you healthy. Yes. Yeah. And if you don't have that passion, then yeah, the whole exercise, like going out of your way to exercise, yeah, feel shit at the time. But then afterwards you're like, Oh fuck, I got that done. You know, I feel great. You know, I'm looking forward to, you got to look forward to life, but then you got to do it all over again the next day. That's where people have a hard time. I, Hey, I'm not saying shit. I don't exercise. I just hunt and work and keep busy like, well, that is exercise though. You're doing it so often. If I didn't do it, then I would exercise, you know? Um, and I always feel fit. Like I'm in my forties now. I'm just like this last trip, I'm like, this is going to kill me. Like I haven't been in the fucking Rocky mountains for four years. Like, but it's like you hit day four, day five and it's just like, you're used to it. Oh, you're loving it. You know, and it's just, it is it's, but I think people don't find that thing, you know, and it can't be just going out, getting, getting drunk all the time. I think that wears off and the next day you feel like shit. It's got to, I don't think people have the knowledge. They don't know what it is that they're interested in and they don't have the time to find a thing. That's, that's, what's unfortunate. I've seen people come in the bow hunting and drop straight out of it, but it's because they're looking for their thing and it's not by wanting, you know, it's not hunting. And then I've seen guys like that and I follow them on social media obviously after meeting them and you'll, I see a move through different things, you know, and they are, and some people mightn't be able to stick to one thing too. So they do a lot of things. I've always thought if I never discovered bow hunting, would I be like mad in the surf and instead, you know, and you get to go to all these different places, you know, and see different places. Like there's more to it than just catching a wave. Right. Like catching a wave is your bull elk on the ground. Yeah. But there's all the rest of it in between, you know, that you get to do. Like, like find something that takes you places. And find something that's complex that makes you concentrate on getting better at it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Like how hard is bow hunting? It's fucking hard as shit. Like you'd never fucking master it. No. You'd never master it. No. You just get better at it. And it's, it's constant. It's never ending. And you always have to practice. Yeah. Yeah. Practice constantly. Yeah. And so like I build a lot of things, you know, and I just, and it's the same cause you never actually master it. There's so much to building something. What do you build in a table? A house. Like there's so much in between. So it keeps me busy. It keeps my mind ticking. Yeah. Keeps me muscles going, blood flowing, things like that. So I think that's the other reason why I like that. Not just that it's a manly thing to do. Well, I think human beings are designed to do things and we're designed to have puzzles and complex things, whether it's playing chess or whatever it is like human beings need things that are complex. It helps fuel you. It helps keep you going. And it gives your mind something that it can focus on, which is what we need. And it used to be survival. It used to be just, I mean, your mind is designed to try to hunt, gather, find food and fend off enemies. That's what it used to be. Fend off predators. And now you're stuck in a cubicle all day and you're slowly going mad because your body does not get any of the things that it needs. Your mind is like, I couldn't do it either. I know people have to do it because that is their survival right now. Right. The society we live in. And I always say it, it's not my design. Like this is not how I'd have society. I don't think it's how anybody it's not. Yeah. It's not anyone's design, but it's like, fuck, if you want to do that, you'd need a vehicle to travel. I need fuel. I need time off work. So I have to work. I have to make money. So then people get stuck in that. So their survival is, cause they're paying bills and everything is working in that cubicle, which fucking seems disastrous for the mind. Fucking traffic's disastrous. All of it's terrible. Unnatural environment. Such a weird, it is such a weird set up and system, but we're all in it. Yeah. And we're just got to adapt and fucking get on with it. So, but it's like, what are you going to do or what do you aim towards? You know, my originally when I went into business is because I was like, I want to hunt, but when I go away hunting for a couple of weeks, there's no money coming in. How do I, how am I able to go hunting and still be financial? And it's like, well, I'll start a business. I have other people working for me. I'll set that up and, you know, put the years in to do that, to get to a point where I'm like, I can hunt money does keep coming in. So it's like people need to find what, like, what's their vision and aim towards it, you know, whether you're successful, unsuccessful, at least you're aiming towards something, you know? But it is hard. And I feel for these people that are stuck in a cubicle or in a situation they don't want to be in, you know, and it's just like, where's the light at the end of it for them? Not everybody's going to make it out, but enough people that are listening to this are realizing that they have to do something. And it's conversations like this are important because they hear that and they go, God damn it, this resonates with me. I got to figure a way. Yeah. I got to find something that I do that's different. Yeah. And it does, like, I think a big thing is it doesn't happen overnight. And I was like, people, even me, you know, and I'm like, not nowhere near famous as bloody anyone you have on here, you know, but, and I'm sure you get a lot too. Whereas people would think they can just jump into that situation, but it would have taken you years and years to get to the point that you're at now, would have taken you years and years to get to the point of even when you first had a podcast. Yeah. And they don't see that background story, you know, cause it's, if you go through my Instagram, you just see all the glory bits generally. I try and show everybody, but and anyone's Instagram, you just see all the glory bits and you don't see that big gap in between that was fucking hell, you know? And it was like, you know, I've fucking, I've been broke. I've had no fucking money starting the business. And then I've had all those struggles. I've had all those stresses that you don't see. You just see Adam Green Tree out hunting or fucking living life. And it's just like, yeah, it took so much to get to here. So everyone today wants something to happen very quickly. They do short attention span and they want results instantly. They want six minute abs, you know, they want to lose weight in 30 days. They want all that. That's me. That's me losing weight bits. Everybody. I'm just like, I'll just eat clean for the next week and blah, blah, doesn't do shit. But if you look at things have like little goals, like tiny little goals. Yeah. Even if it's like, Oh, today I'm going to research this and have a real goal. That's what's also important. Write down that goal, write down a checklist of things you're going to do that day and do those things. Yep. That's a hundred percent a giant factor in my life. Yeah. And you just keep eating a little bit of it off. And the next minute you've got the whole pie. Yes. Next thing, you know, like, Oh my God, I've done this for 480 days now and look how much different I feel. I love, um, it was, it was just a little real or something. And it was about if you spend this much time a day doing something that in so many years you're a professional at it. I can't remember exactly how it went, but all it is is just saying what you said. You know, you've got this big goal, you know, and you've got the picture and it's written down and it's like every day or each week or each month you keep tapping a bit of that away. Yeah. Knowing that at some point you're going to be there where you want to be. And it's like the, once you've done it, it's easy to think back on cause you've already done it. I'm not even talking about multiple things cause you've already been at that point, you've already gone through that shit and you know what's on the other side of it, you know? And that's like, I sum up hunting like that as little bit, you know, I've done enough of those horrible back country elk hunts that you know at some point, even if you're not successful, you still succeed in yourself. You still grow. And that's the end goal and result for me. But because I've done it before, I already know it's coming. So it's easier to keep going through that shit. Kim's never been through that. She hasn't killed a bull. She hasn't had an opportunity to shoot a bull. So she's not enjoying those weeks in the mountains, but I know what's on the back end of it. And I'll say it every time I'm, I've always been successful. I'm waiting to not be successful cause that'll be even better for me. Like in here, what I'm chasing and mental health, not being successful will even be better cause you just drive you even further. Exactly. What's the next year like, or what's the year after that? Give me a couple of unsuccessful ones. But you have to have some success to get to that point of wanting to fail. Kim hasn't had that. You know, my first elk hunt was on a big ranch in New Mexico and I'll see him bulls every day. It was sweet, you know, and it was still a hard hunt. You hunt with the bow. Right. And then I killed one. It's like, Oh, sweet. And then next year I'm like, I'll do this over the counter thing. Fucking campaign. So, you know, like that, you know, that's what all Kim used to do. So it's like, I want to experience that and bit more like Australia where you just out on your own doing your thing. And I went through hell on that first back country hunt and I killed one on the last day, like day 30 or something like that. But I'd already, then I'd done that and I had all the feelings and I'm like, Oh, I want that feeling again. And you have to go back to doing it that way. Yeah. And it's the same with a business, you know, I've had seven or eight businesses now and I know what the end result is if you keep putting in. So it's easy to start another business and keep going forward. Yeah. Someone that hasn't done that just, this isn't successful. This is too hard, you know, and it's just like, but that's also what separates the men from the boys. Yeah. Yes, it does. I've been unsuccessful in business too, before. Once you get past that point, it's actually not a bad feeling because you know what not to do. You've got that experience, you know, and we're not all the same and not everyone can have a business. Not everyone will have a business. Cause I know people that just like their nine to five job and they get paid every week. They don't have to stress about chasing clients, bills, any of that stuff. So there is, there's different people too. You know, those people also need something that interests them. They do. And hopefully it's not sitting on the couch, watching TV, watching TV and drinking beer. Yeah. You know, and it's like, and you see so many people stuck in that cycle, you know? Yeah. But if they're happy, fuck it. Good on them. Yeah. Maybe, maybe. Hey, we need some. I don't buy it. Are they all the people that lined up for COVID injection straight away? I just think, I just think humans are inherently tribal hunter gatherers. And I think there's certain human reward systems that are deeply ingrained in our DNA. And you can either accept those and find some way to satisfy those needs or you can live a life of misery or with a thorough called, we said that most men live lives of quiet desperation. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to be one of them. No, hell no. That's most men. Yeah. It's most people, but it's not you out of country. I can't do it. I can't either. I can't do it. And that's what it is. And it does upset me when I do say people doing it, you know, but they're all the different Mike and a different model, you know, but it's true too. It's but it is, it's sort of like, fuck, do this. You can't speak to everybody, but what you're saying is speaking to a lot of people. That's what's important. My brother. It's always good to see you too. My thanks for coming out here. Thanks for having me on.