JRE MMA Show #156 with Royce Gracie

What's happening my friend? Great to see you. Life is good in my world. Yeah, life is good in your world. It's always good to see you man, but it's, you know, I know you're you and I know, you know, you, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're who you are, but for most human beings, you are one of the most unusual people that's ever lived. The original ultimate fighter, the number one, the guy, the reason why this whole thing is so big You're the fucking man. It's because of my father. Yes Product of his work for sure for sure But for most people our introduction to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu was you in UFC one You know we didn't you know I grew up in martial arts, but we didn't know about Brazilian Jitsu until you have see one in 1993 Yeah, it's that but we didn't know about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu until you have seen one in 1993. Yeah, it said that one that Horde had a vision. So back then we used to teach in the garage private classes one student at a time and Horde had the vision. How can we spread out throughout the world? It's once America find out, we've got to put on TV. And once America find out, the whole world will find out. The world found out so quick. I've never seen a martial arts spread through the country, like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu did in the 1990s. A lot of people thought the graces are arrogant. They were trying to put down the other martial arts. But it was not, it was like a put up or shut up. Yeah. Karate against Kung Fu, everybody claims that their style is the best. There's only one we'll find out. And we're willing to try to find out. [2:01] We're not saying that we're the best, we're just like, hey, you say you're the best, I'm say the best, there's only one we're the best. We're just like, hey, you see you're the best. I'm the best. There's only one way to find out. Well, the thing is, you guys had already tried it in Dojo's. You had already gone to gyms. You had already had challenge matches. The Gracie and Action videos were an eye-opening video for a lot of martial artists. They saw all these karate guys who were, you know, the guys who thought they were these bad ass fighters And they just got taken down and strangled taken down and strangled taken down an arm-barred But again, that was in Brazil A lot of that will happen in Brazil when we came to America was a different level It was okay. This guy's the world champion in karate the number one boxer the number one kick boxer Well, let's see if our stuff work against them. And they're bigger too. When you grew up with this, I mean, you started your jersey when you were very, very young. So when you grew up with this, when was the first time you saw one of those challenge matches? [3:01] It was Higgs on fighting Zulu. Oh wow. So I was young, I couldn't get into the stadium. So I watched it through a crack on the door. It's like outside the stadium because there was an age to be in there. I think it was like 16. And I was like 15, I think when he fought or 14 when he fought. So Royal Argaryen, because he did a demonstration, I guess before, but I had to stay outside and I was looking to the crack could barely see it. Wow. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Even before that, there's a black and white video of Hordeon, Hels, on Hordeish and some of the students fighting against karate guys on the tile. And that's when I was there. I was present on that day. But I always heard stories of the family fighting. And yeah, we got to fight on this guy on the beach. And the guy show up at the school and we had to fight. And I always grew up listening to them, [4:02] the stories of my father fighting, my uncles and my cousins. And so I was like, I want to be one of them. I want to do this. So there was always rumors about why you were chosen to be the representative for the first UFC. What's the actual truth behind it? Like, why did they choose you? Dude, it was going gonna be a national TV Imagine if they put an ugly brother They all could have done the same thing my cousin's all could have done the same thing But come on by the looks No, no, I think I think my father in the Horde knew I was going to obey my father's order. It was like do not hurt your opponents. The other brothers and cousins, all of them bigger, smaller, they could have done the same thing. It was very raw back then. [5:05] There was one style against another. But I think my father knew I was a little more calm, personality. It was, I was gonna obey his orders and his order was like, do not hurt your opponents. Now why was that so important to him? To show the true art of Jiu-Jitsu. If a cousin gets in there and beat the guy up with an elbow cross to the opponent's face, he would have been impressive. Oh my god, you shock everybody but wouldn't show the technique. And my father and a heart were concerned about showing the technique of Jiu-J. Well, we can do by dominating somebody bigger, stronger, without having to hurt them. That's so amazing that you guys had so much confidence in Jiu-Jitsu that they wanted you to not hurt someone. That's the conversation I remember having with my father [6:03] was like, but that, the guys that's bare knuckle, they're gonna hit me. He's like, don't worry, they'll never hit you. They're not gonna touch you, don't worry. That's how much confidence he had. Wow. He's not gonna, don't take me wrong. My mother's order was totally different. My mother was like, your father doesn't know what he's talking about. I want to see some blood sending him to the hospital. Mom was the mean one. That was like, no, no, don't hurt your opponent. They're not going to touch you. Don't worry. They're not going to, nothing's going to happen. You're going to dominate. Mom was like, I want to see some blood sending to the hospital. It's so, your family is so unusual because I always said that your family, your father, Carlos, everyone, that the whole family. It's the most important family in the history of martial arts. There's no family in the history of martial arts. It's had the same impact that the Gracies have had. I think that Jujutsu landed with them for a purpose. [7:06] They're from the north of Brazil, persistence people, and the vision that they had, or having a lot of kids, Uncle Carlos had 21 kids, 11 boys, 10 girls, one father had nine kids, 10, seven boys, two girls. So he could have beat all girls. And she just wouldn't beat what it is today. It is kind of crazy because your father was so unusual, had such an unusual mindset. And the fact that he had had those early matches, like the matches with Camura, all those Santana, all those different early matches, you know, that a lot of people don't even know about that you could see online. It was a, it was a, they wanna test themselves. So Kimura haven't lost, not just not lost, [8:01] but nobody lasts more than three minutes with him. And my father was like, okay, I wanna try. Have you younger? Val de Mastantana, have you younger? They felt for like three hours and 40 minutes. One round straight. Wow. So it's, yeah. They just, they wanna put it to the test. That was the main thing. They want to see what they can do. But my father always said, he wasn't on how can he beat the opponents. He always told me, don't walk in to win. Walk in not to lose. If you don't lose, the question is how you're going to beat him. And he makes a mistake. But the mentality was always not to lose. So always be defensively minded. We're giving the weight advantage to the opponents. So if I don't lose, we're going to, [9:01] he always used to explain that way. We're going to play a ping pong game. So every time you put the ball, my side table, it doesn't matter where you put the ball, I'll put it back on the center, if you all catch the ball, put it back on the center of the table. What am I doing? Playing the perfect defense game. When I'm gonna lose, never. So when I'm gonna win, now we have changed the question. When you missed the table, did I win? No, you the one who made a mistake. You won't lose. If you're not, we're gonna play forever, if you don't make a mistake. So it was a very defensive art. Yeah. It was not a very aggressive. I've heard a health and described Jiu Jitsu in that way. He said, Jiu Jitsu is, I do this and then you do that and then I do this and then you do that forever. And tell somebody make a mistake. Tell somebody make a mistake. It's like, I could have made a mistake too, but if I don't make a mistake, if you don't make a mistake, we're going to play forever. You are this. Yes. We're going to play. Yeah. Tell somebody gets tired of making a mistake or, yeah. It was also perfect for you to be in it [10:06] because in the first UFC, you were, what did you weigh about 176 pounds? 178. 178, crazy. And you were in there against gigantic guys. Like, what did Kim away? 250. 250, roided to the gills. There was no testing. No testing, carrying a wooden cross into the octills. There was no testing. No testing. Karen of Wooden Cross into the octagon. That was great. He was a raw. He was a pro-born and the strongest guy I fought. He was huge. He was raw strength. Yeah. Not the most technical, but he was pure strength. And I messed up on that one cause I tried to match strength with him. He got me tired. So I tried I heard he was very strong and I tried to match him Walking in with the cross. I remember every is like what the hell is going on here? I was like I was like go ahead carry that cross It was solid wood by the way. That was heavy. I'm sure. Probably good warm up. And there's you. [11:06] How old are you then? That was a 30FC, it was a 27. Wow. Look at his eyes man. It's like, you know? Yeah, just jacked full of juice, enormous. Jesus tattooed his stomach. The early days my man. What is it like when you watch these? Bear nose and bear nose. Sometimes I think my father was thinking holding on putting me rockers. I had a fight before. That was your first fight. You have C1's first fight. Wow. I had to say how many fights you had? I said 51, those tournament matches when I was a kid competing tournaments. Yeah, professional fights. Never on the street, never. Wow. That's crazy. I got jumped on the street once, when I was like 14 years old, because I want to be a fighter like my brothers never had a fight. I heard all of them fighting. [12:01] So I was like 14, 15 years old. I went to a very bad neighborhood in my bike. Got my bike stolen. My nose broken. Got jumped like five guys. Daytime took my bike, but I was I came home and I was like, okay, I had a fight. I can be one of them. I want to be one of my brothers, man. I want to be part of the crazy. Never had a fight. It's like, ah, when you first fought, did you have striking training at all? Yes. Very little, I had students showing me some stuff. So that's crazy. More for me to know what's coming I mean them for me to use it. Right. So it's more for me to know how they move. Yeah. So it wasn't like I'm going to learn striking to learn boxing to fight against a boxer. Mm hmm. It was more for me to know what's coming. How they going to move when they're getting ready to throw a kick a punch or from it to understand their [13:05] movements. Yeah, Hicksons talked about that the same way. He said he didn't learn kickboxing to be a kickboxer. He just learned kickboxing to understand what they're doing, the distance the timing. Distance, that's management, distance management. That's the very important. Some guys you see, plant their feet and just exchange firepower, you can go either way. So I like more of a lute to style, hit and don't get hit. Get away. When you look back on this now, and you think, I mean, when you watch these old matches from like 1993, what does it feel like to see that? Crazy. I think my father was crazy. I'm gonna need that man. Well no one had ever done it before on television. It never been in America at least. It'd never been a thing. And then all of a sudden have this. [14:01] No time limit, no time vision, no glistening. No rules, no everything. No biting vision no gloves no rules no everything no biting no eye gouging yeah you can punch the nuts everything yeah but if you do a gouge or bite like George do as soon as I took him down he beat my ear on the first year on the finals on the first UFC but there's no punishment there's no okay you're gonna get this qualified and it's like don't do it again, sir It's so crazy but then from that moment from UFC one Brazilians you just to exploded across the country exploded grace Academy double size on after the first UFC. After the second UFC, we double again. Wow. This is in Torrance. Torrance. Yeah. I started at Hicksons place, and then I went to Carlson Gracie's place, because I didn't know any better. It was closer to me. It was on Hawthorne, as I was when VTore was making his debut in the UFC back when they [15:03] were calling him Victor Gracie. Yes. It was UFC 12. as I was when VTore was making his debut and you have to see back when they were called a Victor Gracie, as you have C12. And I remember the feeling of the first class, the feeling of how humiliated you are when you don't know Jiu Jitsu and you spar with someone who knows Jiu Jitsu. It's like you think you know how to fight and then you get in there and then also and you're on your back, You know what to do and all of a sudden you get choked and you're like oh no this is crazy Like it was you being we martial art for a long time already so I had a Completely distorted idea of my ability to fight completely distorted and I remember my first class was like oh boy Now I know it's like a back in the garage days those some those always a student that bring a family friend or family of member or coach from different styles of martial art and they'll come in and they'll come in to fight us. But we, Gordon and I, would have been like, okay, we're gonna control and turn the Himento student. [16:09] So we'll take the guy down, mount, and pretty much talk to him, maybe choke, maybe arm bar, let it go, not hurting. And then go home and go, oh man, can I sign up? Can I learn? Right, because of the fact he didn't hurt them. You could convert them into a student. If you beat the fuck out of them and just broke their face, they would never come back. Yeah. So we were more of concerned about gaining a student than trying to beat them up, but they were coming to fight. We were converting them. Wow. Who's, was it your father that was the mastermind behind doing it that way? I think that was the mastermind behind doing it that way? I think that was Hordeon because Hordeon was like my second father. I came live with him. I was 17 going on 18. I came to America to live with Hordeon. So Hordeon was a lawyer, very smart, very calculated. And we were teaching back in the garage days, teaching every day private classes, half an [17:05] hour private classes, place looked like a crack house, everyone's having a crack house. Now there's a person coming in and leaving, coming, coming, coming. Then it was like, what'd they be doing over there? It's amazing what started in that garage, if you really think about it. But it's also amazing like his vision that he had so much belief in Jiu Jitsu that he knew that he just it wasn't like it had to be developed It was already there. You just have to show people they just need to know and We try advertisements and so he finally figured out we have to put on TV and once the American people find out the whole world will see it so and that's what happened put on TV second you have see yeah people coming from everywhere those applications coming from different part of the world it's crazy it's there's never been I mean other than me one thing that [18:02] had like Bruce Lee Bruce Lee Lee movies, people saw Bruce Lee movies, they all wanted to learn martial arts, but other than that, but that was movies, right? So that was like, you wanted to do this thing that wasn't real. Like this guy was fighting 10 people, they were all coming out of one at a time, but it wasn't real. Watching you in UFC one, it was like so many people had this light bulb moment. But I thought a lot of people thought it was fixed. It was like, eh, no, there's no way this thing's for real. Even though Taylor Tully lost a tooth by Jardggordo and got kicking in the face right off the first fight. It's like, but a lot of people thought, yeah. Second, you have to see still people like, yeah, I think the fourth one is when people said, okay, this thing's for real. Marshall artists knew right away. Yes. In the Marshall artists coming right away. I didn't see UFC one first. [19:00] I saw UFC two. That was the first one that I saw. Because UFC one for whatever reason, I think it was some licensing thing. It wasn't available as a DV or a VCR tape. So the VHS tape, when it was released and you could get it in a store, a friend of mine had told me about it and I had just moved to California. It was 94 and I got a hold of UFC 2 and I watched it in my apartment and I remember going, oh my goodness. Like it just changed my mind about fighting. You know, fighting for me was always stand-up fighting. I mean I wrestled a little bit in high school but fighting for me was kickboxing. So when I saw that I was like, wow. I remember everybody, like all my friends that were into martial arts. Everybody was scrambling to try to find a jujitsu school. Like there'd never been a moment like that where one martial art had emerged with such force. Jujitsu judo wrestling. I had a lot of wrestlers and judo guys that came up to me and said, man, thanks for putting us on the map. [20:01] Going back to the old black bell magazines, inside karate, inside Kung Fu, they always stand up martial arts. They wouldn't consider wrestling judo part of martial art. I know it's not crazy. It's all stand up. We used to share a gym back when I lived in Boston. There was a guy that I used to work out with and he had a gym that he would share with the judo class. So on one side there was a judo guy and the other side was a kickboxer. And I remember thinking like, one of these kind of doing, what a waste of time, practicing throwing each other around. Like what's the point? You know, and no one knew. It's so interesting that everyone, see from the time I first got into martial arts when I was a little kid. There was always this thought, like, what would happen if a karate guy fought a judo guy? What would happen if a boxer fought a wrestler? And everybody had an opinion. But until UFC one came around, no one really knew. It was just theoretical. I always maintain that since 93 to today, martial arts have evolved more over the last 30 years than they have over the last 30 thousand years [21:08] It's everybody had that that like What would happen? Yeah, but nobody was with it was a challenge the other one Nobody want to step on anybody's toes. Well nobody was willing to take the chance You know what if I lose or I don't want to bother, I don't want to beat the other guy too, because if I beat him, he's going to feel bad and there's those a lot of that. Yep. We're like, hey, we wouldn't find out. Yeah. Well, thank God you did that. I mean, thank God it came along because who knows where martial arts would be today, if that't happened You would have still people thinking the death touch I'll touch you like he and the show then a week from now you will I'm paralyzed Sleep yeah, yeah, there was a lot of that stupid shit. There's still that stupid shit out there [22:01] There's still a lot of people out there that believe that stuff. It's crazy, isn't it? But hey, UFC came along. Yeah, but most people know the world. Most people know now. I mean, now if you wanna fight, you have to know Jiu Jitsu. You have to. Because there's no ifans or butts about it. No, if you take Jiu Jitsu away, it goes back to the old style. Stand up, karate against kung fu. Jujitsu, the bond between the striking arts and the grappling arts and all of them. I mean, there's still guys who only understand jujitsu in a rudimentary sense, like they understand defense, but you have to at least understand defense. You have to at least know what someone's doing. You can't compete without understanding it, because you'll get caught. You gotta know. Yeah. Not just on the grappling part, but on the stand-up part, you have to know how to defend yourself. [23:02] It's like it's not just come up and start to hit the opponent. I don't know. I got a managed distance. I got to know when I'm too close and he's gonna hit me. So I got to play defense all around. What is it like for you having been there for UFC one to see what it is today? To see like UFC 300, which was just insane. This thing where millions of people are watching it around the world. It's this huge phenomenon. It's like the most exciting sport in the world now. And to know, you are the original, you're number one. There's only gonna be one original ultimate fighter. That's you. I don't look at that way. I don't look at that way. I don't look at that way. I look as a, as a, yeah, I was part of it. You were the part of it. If it wasn't you, like if you didn't exist, if they had the UFC one and there was no representative of JuJitsu, some big strong guy would have won. [24:05] Maybe what if I lost? Right. Right. representative of Jiu-Jitsu. Some big strong guy would have won. Maybe a little bit more. What if I lost? Right. Right. Right if you lost. Yeah. So I said there, there I said, I'm not part of the history. I am the history. Yeah. You are the history. Yeah. You were the original representative of Jiu-Jitsu. And the reason why the UFC became so exciting was not just because you get to see these wild fights inside of a cage, but you see a smaller guy with better technique beat the bigger, stronger men, which is what martial arts was always supposed to be. Jiu Jitsu, I always tell people, is the only martial art that delivers as advertised. Because if you're a kickboxer and you're a small guy and another guy's a kickboxer but he's like 250 pounds like you don't stand the chance. You're fucked. He's gonna hit you. Yeah. Lightweight boxer gets a heavy weight doesn't stand a chance. Doesn't stand a chance. But jujitsu, if you're really good, that guy doesn't know he's doing, you're gonna fucking him he doesn't have a chance or even if he knows what he's doing Yeah, like wait. Yeah, wait have a chance. Oh, yeah to survive and play defense [25:10] Mm-hmm and end up choking or on bar the big hole pointed which is why absolute in Judicial catches are so interesting when you watch a small guy beat a big guy win the heavyweight Yeah, but it's like crazy lightweight. Yeah. No, it's it's the only martial art that really delivers as advertised. Where technique triumphs over everything. And that's what my father and uncle Carlos and their brothers always tried to show people that you don't have to be the biggest, the strongest, the fastest, you just got to know what you're doing. My father used to say, give me the right leverage and I'll lift the world with one hand. Just got to have the right set up. Well, that was also the brilliant thing about Gigi too and your father. [26:01] So your father was a smaller guy. He weighed like 147 pounds for 45 years crazy crazy and Challenge everybody Rastlers that came from gold boxes will go to vacation in Brazil He'll be at the airport waiting for the guy The old Joe Lewis Way to Brazil And uh, excuse Joe Lewis went to Brazil and went to Brazil and my father challenged him. Wow. Horde had a lot of that that was given to my father saying Joe Luzov box against anybody boxing against boxing in an MMA match. In my father's like 145 pounds. Joe Luzwood 220 200 pounds. The heavyweight champion at the time. Wow. You look mellow. It's crazy. Imagine if he took that on. If he was willing to do that, that would have been exciting. [27:01] But back then, those know the internet. Yeah. So a lot of people probably wouldn't find out to right. It would be very smarter. It would be didn't happen. Yeah, no one would understand. There's no babes and right, right, right. Yeah, you'd have to set that up. You'd have to set that up, bring a camera crew and the whole deal. Yeah. What was it about your father that had this mentality, that had this desire to challenge himself and prove Jiu Jitsu's effectiveness? I think he was being smaller, being peak on it and once he learned he had that power he learned Jesus he got that power with him so he want to show others and he wasn't I would say as a fighter he always says if I fell on [28:02] top of the opponent I I would have been nice. I would have choked him out or subdue him. Use the submission, making tap technique. If he was on top of me, I would have beat him up. He used to say, hit him, get off me, get off me. He should have listened, he should have got off me in the first punch. He will tie you up and beat you from the bottom. Well, that was what one one of the more interesting things about Jiu-Jitsu because of what your father did was because your father was smaller, he developed much more technique off of his back. Because in these other styles of judo and in Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, it wasn't really emphasizing fighting off of your back. Yeah, he was playing defense. So he always said, tie your opponent up. And if you have to beat him up from the bar, but if you get on top, there's no reason to beat him up. You under control, you control the fight, you just subdue him. [29:02] Hmm. Well, there's a lot of defense. It's interesting now that I mean defense. I'll say it. Very mean defense, yeah. But it's interesting now when you see the rules, the rules are set up much more for strikers and for wrestlers. Because I've been talking about this lately. Like, say if you're a jujitsu guy and you're fighting in the first round and it's rounds are five minutes long and you take the guy down four minutes and 30 seconds. You only have 30 seconds to work. I feel like a fight should be, even if you're gonna make it rounds, the fight is the fight. I don't think someone should be able to get up. I don't think you should stand people up ever. I think once a guy takes you down, the fight is on the ground. If it's boring for the audience, tough shit. If you're on the bottom, get up. If you can't get up, tough shit. If the round ends and then the new round begins, I think they should start you right back in [30:02] the same place. I think cause the. They're on the same way division back then there was no way division. Right. But since the it's so I don't I would say I would say the fight doesn't favor one person one style or another. It doesn't favor it, but it gives a distinct advantage if you let a person stand up that didn't stand up. So if you start the second round, say if you take me down with four minutes and 30 seconds to go and you're dominating me and you're closing in on me and you're about to tap me, but then the round ends. And then we start, but now we start standing up. But I didn't earn that stand up. I just got to stand up because of the time. I feel like the fight should be a fight. So if a fight is five rounds, that's a 25 minute fight. And I think whatever position that you're in at the end of that first round, you should begin in the second round. That's what I think. I'm in favor of doing one round straight through. That would be a while too. I think one round. [31:01] Maybe even no time on that. No time limit is not good for the TV. No. No, but good for the internet. One 15 minutes round. Ooh, yeah. It's like that's it. One 15 straight through, go straight through. No rounds. Start 15 minutes later will stop. They should try that. And if, hey, if nobody wins, and another five minutes or 10 minutes. Right, over time round. You see, over time. Well, I think pride had good rules with a 10 minute first round was better. I think 10 minutes is better. Especially if someone like works really hard again, four minutes, 30 seconds, you finally take the guy down, now you're on top, and now you're trying to set things up but the bell rings and then you start standing up again Yeah, I started standing up again, but then yeah, I think put a 10 minute round 15 minute one round straight through man But I think the problem is they've stopped changing the rules the rules are the rules now And they've kind of like solidified them and established them [32:00] But I don't think the rules are right. I think if a guy takes you down, you should have to earn a standup. You have to get back up to your feet. So if the fight ends with one mountain top of the earth, or down the back. Yeah, if that's the end of the round, you start from the same position. I think they should show it up on the screen, what the position was, and then everybody agrees. Okay, so he had an overhook, he had half guard go. Or how about like the, they playing football, American football. If the fight, five minute finish and the guys on the mountain position, you got to let it go and tell them break away. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you're gonna go and tell somebody score. Yeah. So I like that. It's like if the position ended up on such an advantage position, [33:00] that was something about it. Yeah, it's something to think about. If you wanna make things more realistic. Like this is the round and I want your back about to choke you or with the gildertior as a choke where I'm bar's cotton. Okay, the belt doesn't ring until you get away and get up then we'll take a break. Yeah, that's not bad either. I just think that having a fight start, if you start, you start standing up. But I think round to round, you should resume the position whatever you were in in the previous round. I think that's the only thing that makes sense. Because otherwise you didn't earn a stand up. But if a guy takes you down and mounts you and he's setting up a head and arm choke and he's sinking, sinking it in, and then the buzzer rings. You should go right back to that spot when round two starts, because you didn't get out of that. So, and now if the guy's a kickboxer, now he goes, oh shit, I almost got caught. And now you start that next round standing up. He has an advantage, because now he's standing up. [34:01] Yeah. but he didn't earn that stand up you earned the takedown you got him down you got in a superior position You're about to finish him I like it. Yeah, I think it makes more sense. I like it. No one's gonna listen to me though Especially me though you you bias towards you to I'm like yeah, yeah, I am but I'm like, yeah, yeah, I am. But I'm not though, but I'm not though, because I feel like, I mean, if it was the other way, if you start a fight, if a guy stood up and got back to a standing position, you would never take them back down again and started. But if it was a switch around, just playing devil's advocate over here. Okay. The kickboxer or the stand up guy hit almost knock him out. Mm-hmm bell rings. Who save by the bell. Right. How do we restart that one? Well, you restarted standing. It's still standing. I mean, the round you have the minute rest, [35:03] but you're still standing. The kickbox is still. I'm still letting go. Let it go. The clock goes on. Hey, and either he recover getting a clinch and whoo. Yeah. Well, the right way to do it then is one round. One 15 minute round or one 25 minute round in a championship fight. That's the right way to do it. That would be 15 30 seconds. So 30 seconds. A minute round of minute break. Yeah, and then 10 minutes That's not bad. Yeah, first round 15. Yeah Yeah, be crazy you'll be early night. Oh I mean how many finishes would there be there be a lot more finishes. I think so I wonder how people have to work on the endurance too. Oh yeah. Because a lot of guys, I see they finish the fight. One is fresh, the other one is done for the night. Right. But then the one that's fresh lost because he doesn't have that quick to each, that fast to each muscle. And the one that explodes everything on the first round, [36:03] the second, third round, that's it. Yeah. This guy's ready to go for five, six, but he's time's over. Right. It's an interesting two, right? It's a matter of, when people don't understand that just watch it and don't do martial arts, it's really just about pacing yourself too. Knowing when to hit the gas, when to back up, knowing that you have to fight for five rounds, and knowing like when to push, like some fighters they'll back off in, you know, in the beginning because they know that the guys are going to come out fast and hard, and they're just going to wait, okay, he's slowing down now, now I start to press, now I start to put on the gas. And it becomes a mental too. Like Harding used to say, if I drop you off on the middle of the ocean and tell you, I'm coming back in an hour. All you gotta do is try the water for an hour. But if I drop you off and say, good bye, find your way home. Now you gotta pick a direction, start swimming. Yeah. Most people drowned [37:01] before an hour. Yeah. True. Right? Mental. yeah, it's a lot of mental. There's no round to save you. Yeah Yeah, that's the most interesting thing about the early UFC's is that it was just no time limit just here we go There's like then seven Mm-hmm top of me for 15 minutes I Beat him on the final 16 minutes. But 15 minutes if it was today he would have won. He was on top to talk me down, he was on top. He would have won the decision. I remember that day. I remember when you caught him and that trying to go most people didn't even know what was going on. They were like, what is he doing? What the hell's happened here? What is going on? Nowadays everybody would be going, oh, the audiences are so educated now. That was a perfect example of playing defense right there. I totally played defense against him. Just first straight deal pointed [38:02] until he made a mistake. I try, I tried early on on the fight, but he was able to get out, to get out, and then I defend, defend, defend, defend. He couldn't do anything. And I can see him getting first straight. It's like, he didn't know how he was gonna win. It's like, I can feel that. There's no way. I can't beat this guy. Right. Because you were so good defensively. Just playing defense, he couldn't hit me, couldn't, he tried to see, but I knew he didn't have any finishing holds. He didn't know any finishing holds. He was just trying to put pressure. Okay. Yeah, I'll take a no problem. It was also the key. The key was so smart too to fight with the guillon because guys would just grab that key. When you would close the distance and get a hold of them, they would grab your key instinctively. I prefer them to grab a lot of Brazilians who are like, man, but then they grab, they make it harder for you. No, I prefer them to put their hands on me. Yeah. [39:00] Cause I know where their hands are. At least if they're not punching me. If they have nothing to grab, they're gonna be swinging on me. Right. Go ahead. Grab my gear all day long. Yeah, I don't mind. Well, guys who weren't even grapplers would grab your gear. I remember watching a human instinct. Yeah, human instinct. Yeah. And also, you have all that friction. It is so good to hold on to guys when you dry the guys. Because if you had to be slippery, it's not like today they put oil on their body. Oh yeah, they definitely do. Yeah, they definitely do. The kit boxes all put Vaseline all over. That's to warm up the Tiger Bond to warm up. That thing's slippery man. Oh yeah, guys take baths in baby oil. They would lie down in a bathtub and put water and put baby oil in the water and just soaks in baby oil. They would lie down in a bathtub and put water and put baby oil in the water and just soak themselves in baby oil. So even if they're dry, then as the moment they start to sweat, they're just like, whoop, like holding up a salmon. You're slipped right out of your fingers. It's gonna be good old days. [40:01] Good old days. No rules. And then they slowly started implementing rules. They slowly started implementing weight classes and then mandating gloves and then taking away shoes. I understand. I understand. They had to be. It became a show. Let's say. Yeah. So on the beginning was a style against a style. Yeah. Today's more of a, I would look out at more of a, I was like, is that not lead against a not lead? Yes. Now it's a sport. It's a real sport. And it's still a sport that, there's still a lot of rules that I don't agree with. Like, I don't agree with no needs to the head on the ground. I think that's ridiculous. I think that doesn't make sense because they're very effective. Like, don't be in a position where you get need in the head. Like, don't be in that. Don't stay in a turtle. Like, when guys just stay in a turtle and the guys got a hold of them, man, that's a terrible place to be in the street. Oh my God. If a guy's got a head and arm on you and he's holding you and you're in the UFC you can't even do anything. That seems to me to be crazy. [41:06] They try to make it, I think, for to less long the fights. Well, I think it's less brutal too, and the idea is that you can't defend yourself against knees to the head of ground, but you can, obviously, prize to them. You can't elbow the back of the head. Right. The back of the head from the back. If you have the back mount, remember when Hanzo, when your cousin fought a striker, that guy, in was a World Combat League? Oh my God. He got his back and just boom, boom, just fucked him up. You didn't even need to put the choke in. Like you didn't do anything. You're just flattened out with your face on the mat and the guys pounding the back of your head, you just tap. So they're kind of trying to put a little bit of to protect the fighter. Yes. I understand. I understand too. I don't agree with it. I don't agree with it here. Also it's weird that you can't hit the back of the head because the back of the head gets hit a lot. [42:02] A lot accidentally, especially with head kicks. Like a lot of times, head kicks wrap around the back of your head and it's totally legal. Like if two guys are standing and one guy faints and the guy throws a punch and the guy throws a head kick and the head kick hits him, bang! It wraps right around the back of the head. So shin, that's okay. And that's a legal KO, which is crazy. But if you get a guy on the ground and you punch him in the back of the head, the referee take a point away, stand you up. Doesn't make any sense. Yeah, it's outside, let it go. Yeah, let it go. I feel days, that would be good. You gotta protect the back of your head. The back of your head's vulnerable. If you're in a situation where a guy can punch the back of your head, you should be blocking the back of your head. And now we can punch the front of your head. Now you gotta block the front of your head. Turn the face into a button. You have to, you have to, this is a, we're talking about a very dangerous sport. [43:05] It's affected the punch the temple. That's okay. That's fucking vulnerable. That's a thin little piece of bone. How many of the gloves are there? Four. Yeah. Yeah, they're just to protect your fingers. That's all that does. It just protects your neck. It helps you hit harder. Yep. Yeah. It just protects you from cuts a little bit, a little bit, you know, but still. The cast that they put underneath, all that taping and the gloves, just to protect your hands, so don't break your hands. Exactly. Yeah. Do you think that they should be bare knuckle? I think you should have go back the old ways, just try out one time. One time, right? One time would be great. No time limit, no way division. Why doesn't someone do that? Why doesn't someone do that? Someone should do, I mean, I don't know about the weight limit thing. The guys are too good now. The problem is guys are too good. But if there's no weight division, if there's no weight division, you cannot have time limit. Right. So if you take the weight, you gotta take the time. [44:00] Right. Right, right. Like I use my father's say I'll give you the weight division. You got to give me time right So you got some of the light weights over here, man. Mm-hmm. The 170s 180s That would fight they have your weights also with no time limit most of these guys Well if they're ju- ju- ju- ju- ju- ju- ju- ju- ju- ju- ju- ju guys But also a lot of these guys are not really the other thing is the the weight cutting Like Camara Usman is a great example. He was the 170 pound champion, one of the greatest ever. Never weighed 170 pounds. He weighed 170 pounds for about five minutes. Walk around 200. Yeah, easy, jacked. All of them. All of them. Everybody. You can't fight one, except for BJ Penn. BJ Penn was the last guy who fought at 170, he probably weighed like 165 when he beat Matt Hughes. And he didn't just didn't cut any weight at all. He just weighed what he weighed and just went in and went after it. But again, jujitsu guy. But everybody have to know jujitsu today. [45:01] Yeah. Some are more proficient than the others. But everybody have to know. Yeah, you are more proficient than the others. Yes. But everybody have to know. Yeah, you have to know what's going on. You have to. Yeah. Everybody have to know a little bit of wrestling and do the kickboxing. Yeah. Boxing the karate. Everybody have to know a little bit of everything. Yeah. It's a different sport. It's it's totally different. What would it be fun to do once see who can sign up for it? Yeah. Yeah. No time limit, no weight class, no gloves. Yeah. Old school. I think they should take away the cage. I think the cage helps people too because it helps people stand back up. It helps you. If you get a guy down and you get a guy down in an open room, like say a basketball court. Like there's nothing to help them get back up. Okay, hold on, timeout over here. Now you brought some memories over here. Yeah. First you have to see, it was John Mueller's, the producer for Conan the Destroyer, the father of Dirty Harry, the Clint Eastwood, [46:04] he's in charge of creating the cage but before the cage they come up with some ideas they present to me I was like wait a minute hold on they're like how about if we make a a round ring with a pit underneath with a pit around which sharks pit under with a pit around it. Which sharks. I was like, hold on. Imagine if I fight a sumo wrestler and just bump me off and fall off the sharks, he would use, yeah, yeah, he should put piranhas because you're from Brazil, super. What? What? The ideas they had. How about a, like a bowl and people try to get off, but you can't because you'll be slippery can't climb off the walls the side but then they didn't had the angles for the camera and how about putting the they try the octagon but with Bob wires oh god I was like dude imagine if I guess somebody big and just push [47:04] me against and hang me on top oh Oh, yeah, that's right. Let's make a electrical fence Really the ideas they had man I was like they'll fight some everybody I'm gonna fight is gonna be bigger than me. They can push me against the fence Fry me against the fence I keep virulent the ideas, man. They'll have all kind of crazy ideas. God imagine if you went through it. For the first few years. That's so ridiculous. I've been saying for a while that they should do, look, if you could watch a basketball game. Basketball game is on this massive court. Why can't there be a fight on a basketball court. Just flat mats, no walls. So everyone can see everything that's going on. What do you think of that being, there's even a basketball that guys who go to the edge. Yeah, but you have a warning track. So you have a warning track of like 15 feet on each side. Where you, let's make that bow, [48:00] they'll talk about it. I was on a bad idea. The bow so the guy can climb off. It's like with the wall, the edges. Have you seen karate combat? How karate combat's doing it? No. Karate combat is doing it like that, where they have flat surface and it's on the edges. There's mats that go to the edges like at an angle. In the angle like people cannot climb out. They kind of go up against it, but then they get pushed and then they fall down. They fall down because it's like I think a wall is actually better than the angle because it's just too easy to fall. Like as someone's pushing you up against that thing, it's a slope. It's hard to like as someone's like you're yeah so if you see how they do it, see how they have that wall? It's the angle. So I don't necessarily think that that's the best idea because as soon as you go up against that, a lot of times guys wind up falling down and the guy just falls on top of them. Yeah, you can back up. Yeah, you can back up. I think it would be better if it was like a basketball court, just a flat mat and a basketball court and there's a warning track. [49:01] So if you know you're in the red zone, you have to get out of that red zone. And if you keep retreating to the red zone, maybe they take a point away from you. Like maybe you have to, it's a lot of room. A basketball court is a big space. There's plenty of room. You start in the center. And then that's how you fight. I just try to eliminate all the factors that aren't another human. Like the other human, if a guy takes you down and you could scooch up to the wall, and then you start using the wall, and you press against the wall, now you're standing up again, but you use the wall. Like if that was just flat, no wall, you're not getting up. Now you have to go underhook, so you have to depath, you have to do something to try to reverse the position. You try to get back up on your feet. You have to earn a standup. Much more difficult than if you're just using the wall to help you stand back up. Shock. Shocked for honest. Shocked for honest, electrical fence. [50:03] Yeah. I remember the first UFC I worked was UFC 12. Shots for us, electrical fans. Yeah. I remember the first UFC I worked was UFC 12. And this was when I was on a television show. I was on this television show called News Radio. It was a sitcom. And so I was hired to go do the post-fight interviews. And I remember the people that I was working with on the sitcom, like, what are you doing? Like, why are you being involved in this? This brutal. And I was telling people that I was working with on the sitcom like what are you doing like why are you being involved in this? This brutal and I was telling them I was like no no no This is gonna be the biggest port in the world to like sir out of your fucking mind Like you're crazy. No one's gonna like this. This is insanity like you're going to watch people fight in a cage And I'm like that was one of the challenges that Horde on had and a lot of people did not Believe it on him. He was like, people are like, man, you cannot fight on the streets. How are you going to put this on live TV? That was one of the challenges that the Horde figured out, paper view. He must be happy now watching it, right? Like, look right baby yeah look at his baby now his baby's on ESPN yeah crazy crazy yeah yeah [51:10] national TV when was the last time Horyun went to a UFC I don't know does he still watch them I think so yeah he says watch so I talked to him once in a while and once a month we talk. It must be crazy for him to see this thing that was his idea. Just branch off and become this huge all over the world. Does he, is he mad? They didn't get a piece? No, because it's all sold from. He never told me, never, never talked to me about that. They should have cut him in. But they should have cut him in. But. They should have cut him in. Yeah. You know what you think about it? Like if anybody deserves a piece, that guy deserves a piece. For the vision that he has. If it wasn't for his vision and the way they decided to go about doing it, and also your father, your father's vision [52:00] for it, you don't hurt him, just used your jiu-jitsu, show everybody. Because that's one of the things that made it so appealing. It wasn't that it was just so brutal, that the guy who won wasn't brutal. The guy who won was just better. And that's why I think the first, second, third, you see. Until I didn't finish on the third, you see. And first and second, people are like, there's no way. He's the smallest one. Beat everybody without hurting them. I don't know. Everybody thought I was like, yeah, a lot of people are like, they're not martial artists people. Yes. I saw people in New York, like, uh oh. Yeah, yeah, martial arts people. We gotta learn this. Well, everybody who took to Jitsu New right away. Like, cause it was, it was so eye opening to do, like, like I said before, my first classes, like the ideas that you had in your head of how competent you are versus the reality that you're confronted with. And you saw that in all the Gracie and Action tapes too. Like these guys, they wanted to do it again. Like, how did you do that? Let's try it again. [53:00] No way. And then, whoop, take down again. Whoop, armbar, argh. Like, like Jorat Gordou, after the first UFC, he went back to Holland and prepared Remko Pahdu to beat me. Remko Pahdu, judo player, and give some stand up. When I beat Remko Pahdu, they went back to Holland. They're like, okay, we have to learn this, you should sustain. We have to learn this, you should think. We have to learn this. Remember when Remco Pardew fought Orlando Veeat? Yes. And he got him in a psych... I mean, just elbowed him unconscious, and everybody's like, oh, wow. Yeah. Like, whoa. That was crazy. Because Orlando Veeat was scary. That was scary. Ooh, lightweight, very good kickboxer. Yeah, nasty, nasty, moitai, and Remco part digit. Whoops, took him down elbows, boom, boom, boom, and then stopped. He stopped. He stopped, look. He's out, he was dead. That's right. That's right. That's right. Such an educational moment for martial arts. [54:02] Again, martial arts has changed so much since 1993. People's understanding of martial arts, just the general public, what they know. If you see street fights today, guys go to the ground all the time. You see street fights today. Guys get guys in heel hooks. Crazy street fights. Yeah. You know, here it is. Here's Remko. Boom. Boom. The first one, he was already out. Yeahco is like 260 pounds. It was a big dude. But it was just like no one understood what was going on, no one understood anything. That's the same thing down that he tried to do to me, but I ended up on his back. Yeah. I knew he was gonna do that, that they down trapped the arm and roll over. So I ended up on his back and that's when I choke him. Such a strange time for martial arts really. If you really stop and think about it, such a strange time because all these years, thousands of years of people fighting, thousands of years of people having this idea of how to fight and then all of it comes together [55:01] in the UFC and then we go, okay, now we have new data. Now we have new understanding. Now we have new understanding. Now we have, okay, now we get it. Now we get it. And then you see it evolve to what it is now. Where you see these guys, like Alex Paheda, the kickboxer who comes in and now he's got his style. And it's, I think today's more of a lot of strategy too. Cause both fighters are practicing, they stand up and the grappling. They do jujus, they do wrestling, everybody does kickboxing, karate, everybody practice all of them. So it's a question of who have the best strategy. Yeah, who has the best strategy? And then these people like Paeda, who has a unique skill set like scary kickboxer dangerous He just hits you once you're unconscious, you know, he did like that guy presents a very unique challenge Like if you don't grab him and you don't get him to the ground You're fucked because if you're standing up with him at any moment that guy's gonna set you up move a boom [56:00] Like we did with Jamal Hill in that last. Yes All takes his one shot from that guy. You know, like so these guys now that everyone has their own unique skill set and it's so interesting seeing how that skill set matches up with another guy skill set. Like with Beheira, I want to see what happens if he fights against like an elite wrestler, a really good, really good at takedowns who knows Jujutsu. You know, and we haven't seen that yet. elite wrestler, a really good, really good, a takedown who knows Jiu-Jitsu. And we haven't seen that yet. But he trains a lot of grappling too. Oh yeah, oh yeah. He's just got his black belt from Glover. From Glover, yes. Which is huge. Glover's good. And Glover says he's like very good on the ground. No, Glover, Glover. Oh, Glover is because Glover could not fight in the US for six years because of visa issues during his prime Like during his prime Glover was stuck in Brazil. He couldn't come to America because of it Everybody knew about Glover was the boogie man like everybody talked about Glover Glover was the guy that like out of all the elite guys [57:00] That were in the UFC Glover was the number one guy that everybody talked about He was so good when he was younger. By the time he got to the UFC, he was already like 36 years old. He won the title. I think he was 41 or 42 when he won the Light Heavyweight title. And that like strains with him, so. Oh yeah. Yeah, it's a good combination. Oh, perfect, perfect, perfect combination. Yeah. I mean, this is it's an amazing exciting time for the sport, you know, it really is and It's good is there's a still a lot of countries a lot of places that are against So we still can open up more doors what countries are against and a main European countries is too like It's starting to make its way. Like this guy from France. Just now, less year, I think starting France and Spain. Well, France has some great guys too now though. You know, Cyril Gone and Cedric Dumbay who fights for PFO's Elite Kickboxer. [58:03] It's, and then you got, of course, you got those guys from Dagestan. That's an interesting element too. Those Russian wrestlers. I don't think this, because of their wrestling, I think it's because of their discipline. And I tell a lot of people that those guys don't think about anything else. Just train, discipline about... Very religious, very disciplined, very focused. Yeah. There's no... The girlfriend or wife, they're not thinking about any of that. No partying. There's no partying. That's all they do. Get up, train, sleep, eat, train. So, yeah, they don't think about anything else. They're just more, I think they're more discipline. Mm-hmm. Then this side of the world. Yeah, I was watching this interview with Kabeab where he was talking, well, there was a conversation that he was having when someone who was talking about young people [59:00] that it's so important that they maintain focus because a young guy who's really talented and is above and better than everybody else when he's 18 sometimes they'll slack off and then they come back to it when they're like 22 but then by then their average and everybody else has gotten much better and they lost that advantage and they never they won't be special but the guy who is 18 who's above and beyond everybody else in the gym that guy if he 18 who's above and beyond everybody else in the gym, that guy if he can maintain that discipline and maintain that focus, then he can go on to become a champion. Yeah, I totally believe on that. It's the discipline. Yeah. It's not because they're better wrestlers or nah, because they're better strikers. You find very good wrestlers everywhere in America top wrestlers in the world over here Olympics. Yeah, see but But I think the discipline Is what what's missing a lot of people? They don't take Sunday off. Right. Right. Right. All it's Sunday. We're gonna rest none of them enough of those guys [1:00:05] What was training like for you like during UFC one? Right, right. It's Sunday, we're gonna rest. None of them, none of those guys. What was training like for you during UFC one? Training... I never really party. So I understand because I'm on that philosophy. I would say good, I before like a month, two months before the fights, a month before the fight when I was fighting Japan, when I went to fight in Japan, a month before the fight, I would move out of the house. So don't have to deal with the kids, with the woman, nothing. So month before. And a heart would come over and have a talk with me and my father and it's like, okay, there's no babysitting, there's no hanging out with the kids. [1:01:01] Yup. None of that. Just part in training. Yeah. Just Spartan training. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. And I understand. I was like, okay, I'm a soldier. You tell me to do it, I'll do it. There's not a doubt. You see, they say, do it, done. So you cannot hang around with the kids and babysitting the kids a little bit all grown now. But it's like nope okay I can cut it off not a problem and want to discipline on that say goodbye to the family you gotta go train you gotta go spend a month away and what was a day's training like did you do any strengthening conditioning back then or was it all just Gigi-Tzu training and position training and drills? It was a lot of in that order you have to know what you're doing. That's how I learned from my family. You have to have endurance then becomes power. Yes, I did a lot of the strength and conditioning [1:02:00] by a lot endurance. Endurance was before this strength strength So even till today it's like it's knowledge if you don't know how to fight right you have no business in the cage Right, but then you know how to fight and you have a lot of power But you can't last more than two minutes Right, oh you trouble. Yeah, so you have to know what you're doing You have to have endurance to last at least the first round five minutes Then becomes power and what kind of endurance training would you do? Oh? Do you know everything from running to swimming to Strength coach and I want time got up and it's like okay The guy he used to be the strength coach for stretch code for USC for the Rams when they're in LA James men went for 41 mile run 41 miles one day Seven seven hours later. I told him stop my kefs are both cramped up man. I can't take it. I can step [1:03:04] That seems crazy. Yeah so Just not too long ago a couple years ago Bunch of friends of mine from the Navy's use Ask me let's go sum across let's go sum a temple a temple bay. I was like sure Let's do it I figured out was across Tampa Bay. It's like three hours later. Three hours of swimming. I've made it, but my god, it's like, Jesus Christ. I was asked by to my fingers. It was January, cold, very cold water. Brazilians are not made for the cold weather. It was not the distance. It was not, I can make it. It was not carrying like, extra 40, 50 pounds of weight behind dragging behind us. No, it was the cold water that got to me. It was like, but I did it. Got the other side. Did you train for that? [1:04:01] Or did you just do it? We swim about maybe a dozen times. I thought we were just gonna go to the beach and just hang out swim on the beach. Yeah, cold water, okay. Yeah, camion come out. No. Three hours. By the time they said it's across Tampa Bay, I was like, no, I cannot back down man, I gotta do it. So it went to a pool, swimming. Nice warm pool, doesn't time. Maybe a dozen times. Just to get ready for that. Yep. Oh fuck. It was pretty much just on heart, man. We climb up cactus to clouds that's in Palm Springs. Strength coach is like, yeah, let's go to go for a hike, dude. It's like cactus for clouds. It's bad. We did it, we got up there. How long did that take? How old day? Oh, they left like three o'clock, four o'clock in the morning, we started, finished by four o'clock in the afternoon, [1:05:04] three, four o'clock in the afternoon, 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Cactus to clouds, 21 miles, difficulty class, 1, 2, highly strenuous, 10,400 feet change of elevation. Jesus Christ. That's not... That's not... That's not... That's not... Yeah. Yeah. I always did endurance stuff So with fighting if you don't have endurance you don't have anything Sakurabana we fought for our in 45 was our 45. Yeah, yeah, you know six rounds of 15 minutes the two-minute rest I think it was two-minute wrestling between rounds 15 minutes rest for two 15 Crazy yeah Is that the longest fight you had yes minutes rest for two, 15. Crazy. Yeah. Is that the longest fight you had? Yes. 945, that's the second longest fight in the history. What's the longest fight in history? My father. Oh, what? 340. 342 or something like this. Yep. Fighting. But he was one round. [1:06:01] Yeah. I was six rounds of 15 minutes. What was the longest fight in the UFC that was one round. Yeah, I was six rounds of 15 minutes. What was the longest fight in the UFC that was one round? I think Dan Severnay. Oh, wow. No, Keshav Murakani. One round of, it was 30 minutes on the UFC five. We did it one round of 30 minutes. What about other organs remember when Merilla boosted Montaie fought Tom Erickson America. Yes, that was another one that was crazy because Merilla was in Brazil 185 and Tom Erickson was 300 pounds He was very good wrestler powerful guy too people forgot about Tom Erickson. He was a very good wrestler. He was a scary mother fucker Big they we call him the big cat about Tom Erickson. He was a very good wrestler. He was a scary motherfucker. Yes. Big. They were called the big cat. Because he moved like a cat. That was 300 pounds. That was on the wrestlers were taking over and trying to fight against it showing the Brazilians that Jesus was nothing. So they had the heavy weights. It was Tom Erickson, Kerr, Coleman, Royce Alger too. [1:07:07] He entered the UFC and ensued in any way. Arm Bardem, remember? Yep, broke his arm. And all those guys went to Brazil to fight in Brazil. Yeah. Kevin Randerman. Randerman, Mark Kerr. Yeah. Chuck Lidell. They fought Fabio Gugiel. Chuck Lidell fought Pele. Yeah, yeah, the Maddox, the Favre Guigelle and chocolate Del Favre paylay. Yep. Everyone needs to have the ring with the the netting underneath the bottom roasts. You can't slip out. Yeah. Crazy. It's crazy when you think about it. How much the sport has changed and how many just I mean and what's amazing is you could watch all those matches too. Like back then, trying to watch a match was very hard to do. You had to find a tape, you know? Yeah, I remember people saying, yeah, it's meant you fought in America. We had to wait a week or two weeks until somebody bring the tape over, the VHS, they had [1:08:03] to bring it. Now, even Sam, they had to somebody come over here, record it and then take it back to Brazil and make copies and pass it around to people. Yeah. Well, it's also like people had to understand where the level was at too, because if you didn't watch it, you didn't understand where the level was at. I remember there was a match between Hixin and Hegan. There's a Jiu Jitsu match in Hixin and Hegan. And at the time it was like the highest level Jiu Jitsu black belt match we had ever seen. And we're watching Hixin and Hegan going after him like, oh my God. They're both stud stud. Hegan was not easy man. He was so good. He was a stud. Oh my God. And watching those guys go out in their prime. So you get to see that level. And you get to watch a tape if you were going to see that. Yep. Because you know, we weren't in Brazil. So we'd have to someone has to film it if you get it over to us. Yeah. Crazy. How come Hicks had never fought in the UFC? Did was there ever a moment where you almost came over? I think because I was fighting there in the UFC, [1:09:05] if not, it was tournament back then. So if both of us fought, we ended up facing each other. So I think he just, that's why he decided to go to Japan. But when you stopped fighting in the UFC, was there ever a moment where they were trying to get Hicks into come over? I don't live there approaching him. But he was already successful in Japan. Yeah. And they kept him busy over there. Yeah. So he was beating up the heavy weights in Japan. Yeah, he's beating up everybody over there. That's the thing that unfortunately in America people weren't aware of like Japan Valley Tuto and all the different and then the original pride You know when he fought Dakota and he fought all those guys over there and for the first value. Yes. Yeah Yeah, well that's fortunately we have choke the the documentary so people get a chance to see it from that [1:10:01] Higgs was a beast man. Oh my god. Yeah Well, that was the crazy thing when you were winning the UFC you were telling everybody hey my brothers even better to see it from that. Hexon was a beast, man. Oh my God. Yeah. Well, that was the crazy thing. When you were winning the UFC, you were telling everybody, hey, my brother's even better than me. And every time. 500 times. Not by a little bit. That's crazy. That's crazy. Why was he so much better? I don't think was just physique. Just be able to move, put his I don't think it was just physique. It was the way he moved. Put his weight the way the position himself. So it was all position. It wasn't people say, oh, because he was stronger. He was more athletic. No, it wasn't. Because he... I don't think he ever used strength against me when we were training. He was not like, okay, I'm stronger than you. I'm going to just rely on the strength. He was just body weight. Just the knowing position and knowing. So he just had a special talent. Yeah. [1:11:00] I'll say a special talent, yes. But that was so confusing for us because we would hear like what His brother's better than him like how is this possible about my little bit? Crazy But hoi left too. Yeah, and the hoi was lighter weight than me But you like like you said hoi sparring with hoi. There's like a Grab me a salmon But you like you say, a Spartan with a hoiler, he's like a Grab Your Salmon. He's all over the place. He's like, and he's little, man. It's like. Well, he was the most successful entornment, right? Yes. And he used to win the open weight divisions and fighting out the heavy weights and hoiler was a beast, man. What a family you have. I mean, what a family. All of them, bunch of studs. All of them, everyone, hands off. Including the girls. Sure. Look at Kira. Yeah. No. Sure, sure. Look at Kira, even the ones they're not involved on teaching. Dude, they're vicious. [1:12:01] It's just so incredible that this one family produced so many champions I mean there's never been anything like it in all of combat sports There's never been anything even remotely close. There's no even second place that you could bring up Oh, well, you know, there's a few times where two brothers were really good at fighting You know, but it's never been anything like you brought brothers and cousins.. Yeah, everybody uncles. Yeah, everybody. Yeah, I mean we heard the name Gracie everybody's like oh shit. It's gonna be a problem Like I think was hands of that said once Handsome is another beast on the family said we are not a family. We have factory of virus Said we are not a family with factory of virus Much yeah, yeah, I mean so many high-end Enzo me just so many so many It's just really incredible when you really stop and think about it and they're out of people that [1:13:06] We all create that game that learned from us at one point. Yeah, it's extraordinary. It really is. When you watch Jiu Jitsu now, do you watch Jiu Jitsu like no Gigi Jitsu? Do you watch these guys? I'm not big intern, man. Go on, Ryan's awesome, man. That's his belt out there. That's his Abu Dhabi. We met up with a friend of ours, Derek. We met up with him, we were teaching him in Chicago. And he very respectful. Go on, Ryan came up, said, man, can we roll you to bits? Like sure, let's roll. It wasn't too long ago. Maybe I'm a year ago last year ago and The guys are peace man. It's like I know of him Yeah, so he's very respectful we're going very light and he's going easy on me and I was like okay [1:14:01] Go ahead catch me and he wouldn't Really and he turned around and I can feel him giving to me it's like no you take me without talking and I was like there's no way I'm gonna take because he wouldn't be believable there's no way I can tap him and I'm okay and I give it to him back something and he's like pretend he doesn't see it he has something back to that's the point that I start laughing. I'm like, dude, really? I'm giving the arm and he's giving me the neck and I'm giving the triand, he's giving me the hands. We're both giving it to you. I have a very respect for me. That's funny. We talk about discipline. That guy works out 365 days a year. There's no Christmas, Christmas, fuck you, your birthday, fuck you, every day. They train every day. I told him, people misunderstood what he's saying. He's challenging people. I said, that's good. Yeah. [1:15:01] That's what my family did. You say you're good? I'm saying I'm good. There's only one we'll find out. Yeah'm saying I'm good, this only one will find out. Yeah. And I told him, keep doing it. Cause they'll push people. You see, yeah, that's a straightaway. We're going so live, he's going so easy on me and I'm giving to him, go ahead, catch me and he'll like put the hand and it doesn't catch me. I was like, really? And then he'll give me something and I was like, okay, you take it. I was like, you take it. Nice and smooth and slow. Well, that's the thing that he's capable of rolling like because he's so fucking strong, but he doesn't use it. It's just all technique and movement and understanding. And obviously he came from a Hanzo school. John Donahue and Donahue came from Hanzo You know it's like it's all that same lineage But there's a lot of good talent people over there out there right now. Oh my god It's incredible like the level of just jujitsu now is so high You know Mikey Musumachi and you know there were tolo brothers and all these different guys out there [1:16:04] It's just so much. So much high level. That trains with him. We go out and ride and I can't remember his name right now man, but I heard the kid says, I'm gonna catch you on the left arm and he catch you on the left arm. It's like, fuck, I'm gonna catch the right foot. And he catch you. And he tells you how long and timing is like, wow, that's impressive. Yeah. To be able to pull such a thing. It's not easy. No. Well, that's what guys do when they get past the level of everybody else, right? They just start challenging themselves by giving themselves one thing they're going to try to do. And I ask people around and people say, yep, this guy is this. It's a training partner for Guadalupe. Jean Carlo. Who is it? Do you know which guy it is? I can't remember the name. [1:17:00] Well, it's one of the guys that trained with Gordon Ryan, man. He's on that level. Well, there's a very high level guys now. I mean, it's just it's so, but it's also iron, charpens, iron, you know. These guys are so good now and everybody's competing with guys that are so good. Like you go to Abu Dhabi and you watch the level. It's just so they been doing some little kids too. So yeah. People in the beginning thought, thought well the grace is a good because they keep in secret No, no, we just stick to it. We just start as a young age and we grew up on this Well, this is the thing the Gordon always says he says my jiu jitsu is 10 years advanced of everybody So it does I can show you everything I'm doing it doesn't matter. You're not gonna catch me because I'm in the gym 365 days a year. Discipline. Discipline. What was that? Discipline, where he eats and yep. It's John Donner, her talks about Kaisen. Kaisen is this Japanese phrase for doing something [1:18:01] over and over and over again, just constantly focusing on this one thing and continuing to perfect it over and over and over and over again, just constantly focusing on this one thing and continuing to perfect it over and over and over and over again. That's what they do. And their thought is, if you work out five days a week, but I work out seven days a week, in a month, I've worked out four times more than you. In a year, you'll add that times 52, 52 weeks. You keep going over and over and over again. After 10 years, I have extra years of training on you. And when you think about it that way, it's really the way to do it. If you want to really be the best of the best, and you know there's a guy like Gordon out there that is training 365 days a year, like you kind of have to. And we go back to Dagestan's. Mm-hmm, same thing. That's all day. There's no Sundays for them. Yeah. There's no, today's my birthday. Today's, it's a holiday. No, there's no holidays for them. No. It's just discipline. If you're not getting better, you're getting worse. So you gotta have discipline. That's what I tell everybody. You gotta have discipline. You can be the most talent person [1:19:06] without discipline. You're not gonna stay on top forever. Yeah, you're, you know, my Tyson said that. He said discipline, without discipline, you're nothing. And he said, and discipline is doing things that you hate to do, but doing them like you love it. Yep. I just love it to do it.. It is a look. I mean, that's the thing about Jiu Jitsu too. It's so fun. It's so much fun to do. Even when you're losing, it's fun. I love a challenge, man. Let's go for swim across them, babe. Okay, fine. Let's run 41 miles. Climb. Climb cactus clouds. Okay. That's a The challenges you recently got into bow hunting. How did that start? How did you get into that? I know you met John Dudley, and I know you did John Dudley's podcast because I listened to you with John Dudley and John Dudley taught me so he's an amazing coach amazing Archie. When I first met him, he came up to me. I was shooting a black rifle coffee and [1:20:04] I was, I wanna show you the black rifle coffee and the challenge, I didn't know what I was doing. He came up to me and was like, hey, come see me, I'll make your bowl. And I was like, what the fuck is this guy, man? I said, I don't know, he was like, who is this? I was looking around, I asked around, they're like, he's the hoist grace of bowl hunting. Yeah, he's the fucking man. So when spend some time with him, show me some stuff, maybe build me a bow. Not like yours. Yours is how many pounds to pull? I have a 90 pound bow. 90 pound. I can't even carry that thing. What's not 90 pounds to pull? It's the pulling is 90 pounds. I can't even carry that pole. Mine is like 60. 60's good enough, but if you could pull 90, it's better. Yeah. No, I don't have the... Well, the way I felt like, you know, people say that there's a controversy in the Bohunting community [1:21:01] where they said, you don't need 90 pounds. 70 pounds is all you ever need. And I'm like, okay, but 70 pounds for you is not 70 pounds for me. 70 pounds for me is easy. 90 pounds for me is not hard. So 90 pounds for you is almost impossible, but 90 pounds for me is pretty easy. Like there's a video of me pulling my 95 pound bow back. I just fucking pull it back. Cause I lift a lot of weights. So if you lift a lot of weights and you have all this muscle, why not use it? Yep. I agree. If that's a lot more power, I was shooting with the 95 pound bow, I was shooting a 520 green arrow with 301 feet per second. When that thing fucking hits man, that is going through everything. The amount of penetration you get with a bow like that is insane. And that kind of power, it's like, that's better. Because if you hit bone going in, you're going to go through the bone. It's going to go through everything. You're not going to worry about penetration. You're not going to worry about lethality. It's going to be very lethal. So you wouldn't use a 20-point combo. [1:22:01] I wish I had those muscles. It's like you're born in a pile. How would you start lifting weights? Let's go. Start lifting weights. I do a lot of rows, a lot of chin ups. But if you could do that and it's not hard, I always say pull the thing back that you could shoot. Like how shoot, I have an 80 pound bow that I practice with and I'll shoot that bow for three hours. I'll be out my yard for three hours, just shooting hundreds of arrows. Man, this... I love... But it took forever. I love guns. And you kind of weapons, swords, bows. You've got a tarantactical too, right? Yep. Yeah, that's great, right? And that plays great. He's awesome. He's awesome. Terrence amazing. Good teacher too. Oh, amazing teacher. He knows how to push you to, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, it's again, it's like learning from a real master, you know, and seeing like, when you see him shoot, you're like, Jesus Christ. Like, he's like, did it, did it, did it. Like fast, super accurate, perfect technique, you know, and you see that, you go, oh, that's what it looks like when it's done right, you know [1:23:06] But I got into bow hunting a bow in general. Oh, not too long ago I'll say four or five years ago. I started to play with it and then when did you think about hunting? Oh, I've been hunting for a while. I keep that quiet, yes. You keep that quiet because of Brazil? No, because Brazil has a very anti-hunting attitude. Yeah, but it's not just Brazil and saying a crazy family. The crazy family. A lot of people hunt like hunting and they give me a hard time. You tell us like, what? You put out a chat. Yeah, they post a picture of us. Somebody was eating some sushi and somebody post a picture in a Brazilian barbecue place and they all post that post about eating. And I post a picture holding an elk. There's no guns, there's no blood. [1:24:03] Everybody give me a hard time, man. Crazy hypocrites. And give me a hard time man. Crazy hypocrites. Okay, and give me a hard time, I give them an hour. And then I came back and I was like, that's a bunch of hypocrites. You always eat meat, give me a hard time. So how, but then they started, oh, but you just killed for the fun? No, I did not. They meet at my house, they hide at my house, the heads at my house, and the leftovers, the cuts that we don't eat, the animals went to eat. So I had to educate a lot of them on that. Yeah, that's the thing. Most people are just uneducated about it, and they have this stereotype view of hunting as being this cruel thing that people do for fun. No, I do it for the meat because I want to eat. It's the best meat. If I'm not going to eat, I don't kill it. I'm not going to shoot a cat. Of course. I don't eat cats. Exactly. Yeah, people have asked me to do some hunts where they don't eat the meat. [1:25:00] I'm like, sure. Yeah. Yeah, like there's some, like there's helicopter, hog hunts they do. They fly around the helicopter, they shoot wild pigs out of helicopters, I'm like, I know you have to do it. You can go back and get it. Well, you could, but I mean, how many of them are you gonna get? Like one day they shot 250 of them. No, I'm not that man, yeah. You're not gonna to really butcher and some of them they donate to hunters for the hungry, which is a great organization that feeds a lot of homeless shelters and stuff and they'll take that meat and bring it to a butcher shop and give it to hungry people and it's very good meat. It's the best meat for you. But when you shoot out of a helicopter and shoot 250 pigs, you're not going to go and take those pigs. I I have a firm of ours in Texas that take us out to have a Israeli copter. Right? And Ashcraft and we shoot but then we go back down. We collect. We don't shoot it like 250. Okay. A couple four or five. You see, we go back and get the best ones. [1:26:01] Yeah. We cut it up and take the meat and wild boars delicious. Yeah, so good. And sometimes even give out to churches and they take care of feed people. That's great. Yeah, that's great. But wild game meat, man, it is the best meat in the world. When I eat it, I just like, whoa, I feel so much bass. But the feeling of you went there. Yes. You got that meat. Yes. I feel so much better. But the feeling of you went there. Yes. You got that meat. Yes. Yes. It's something that you brought home. You went to Gaujo. You went hunting. Yes. In hunting, I tell people all the time, it's not catching. I would say 70% of the time, I come back home with nothing. So it's not every time that I go out, that I come back home with nothing. So it's not every time that I go out that I come back with something. No, it's very difficult. It's a, it's a, I would say for me it's about 70% of the time and I come back home empty handed. Yeah, but it's like, okay, I was there for a whole day, piece of mine. There's no cell phones, there's nothing, there's nobody bothering me. [1:27:03] It's difficult. So you're in the woods. You're hiking. Yeah. You need endurance. I mean, you need strong legs to get you around those mountains. I mean, the first time I ever went hunting, I got that mule deer with my friend Steve Rinelli. He took me hunting in Montana. And I was in really good shape. And I was like, you know, I do jiu-jitsu every day. I'll be fine, walking up these hills. And I was like, whoo, I this is fucking hard. Like I didn't think of it as a physical thing, but mountain hunting is very physical. Like you have to be fit. You have to be in shape. It's, I just got back from bare hunting in Idaho and up and down the mountains. Yeah. Hot sun, yep. Yeah. Hot sun. Yep. Yeah. Up and down the mountains. I know. That is rugged terrain too. Very rugged. Beautiful terrain too. Last year, my first elk that I got with the bull shot the elk with the bull. [1:28:02] 30 yard shot. Got the elk loaded elk loaded up talking back to the house. We are taking the skin off and Taking the skin and the hide and taking the meat and and I went to help the guys 11 o'clock a night It's three of us. I went to help my friend to I went to help my friend to cut because he never knives everywhere. So as soon as I start to lift their hide, put my finger, my hand on the wrong spot, the guy cut my finger to the bone. So it's like, okay, it's like, you just cut your, it's like, yup, I could jack cut you all like yep. So then I've touching the bone. Went to, went to, so the other friends like, hey, do you have a hospital nearby? He's like, hospital is two hours away. [1:29:00] Got a veterinarian. Veteran, veterinarian. So he's like, no, it's 11 o'clock at night everybody's asleep man So he's like do you have a super glue? He's like no He's like You got a stapler? Oh see his tape on it And his crazy finger Oh my god Put four voice tables on my fingers That's crazy, but it worked it worked wow Then I have laid it I get home and My son Decide to take it off. I have to take the staples off. Look where he's using to take it off. A pair of pliers. From the garage, from the motorcycle, pick up the pliers. I can't believe I still have my finger, man. We didn't clean any. He just, he just picked up the pliers. It's not to pull the staples. And how long after the injury was this, [1:30:02] that he was doing this? I did it half later. Oh, okay. So it kind of healed up a little bit. Because those when I got back to Florida, yeah? Yeah. It's like, how's it going to be? I got back to Florida, my son's like, no, you're not going to the doctors. I can take this off. Are you living in Florida? Yes. Where do you live? What part of Florida No kidding, when did you move there? I moved there about almost two years ago. What made you decide to do that? I can see myself getting arrested if I was in California. Really? Oh, California people so... I love California, don't take me wrong. I think California is the best state in the world. And I travel eight months of the year. I love California, but the people over there, man, they just get on your face. It's like this, like this. It's my right to be here, okay? What are you gonna do about it? It's like, dude, it's my right, knock your teeth out. Oh my God, these violent, call the cops. [1:31:00] I rast him, it's like, people is like disrespectful. Got to a point you got disrespectful. It got weird, right? It's hard. And I love, don't take my, I can't say enough. I love California. It's the only place where you could be in the ocean and then in the mountains on an hour. And on the desert. Yeah, and the desert. You can surf, ski and spend the night in the desert. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same day. The same Districts are thankful and they've sort of, they've been bold and a lot of really stupid people to act like idiots You know and and Did just the whole the way they're dealing with the homeless situation is fucking insane You know they've they've they've lost 24 billion dollars that they can't account for that was [1:32:00] Does that is that what the story is there was some controversy about 24 billion dollars missing that there were Allocated towards the homeless crisis Yeah, so I just so was in the on the on the trip and I call my son. I was like dude. We got to get out of here We got to get out so all the kids are grown so Everybody's different location Yeah, so how to pick Florida by his different location. Yup. How'd you pick Florida? So here it is. California spent $24 billion tackling homelessness over five years, but didn't track if the money was helping the states growing number of unhoused people. So they spent $24 billion and they can't figure out what the fuck it did. God, it's ridiculous. And it's not getting better at all. It's getting worse. Every time I go back there, I'm like, oh God, it's ridiculous. And it's not getting better at all. It's getting worse. Every time I go back there, I'm like, oh God, it's worse. And I go and only go back like once a year now. I go back once. I say it. And everything I do. I love it. I hope it gets better. I would love to move back. But it's not gonna get better. Yeah, I haven't had better. I haven't had a whole long time. It's gonna take generations. [1:33:06] I used to joke with people and say, I'm a front line of resistance. But yeah, he got to a point, it's like, man, yeah, it's too hard to control. Well, it's also crazy things are happening. Like a guy got arrested because someone broke into his house and he shot the guy and they arrested him. Like, okay, you can't even defend yourself in your own home. Like, what is the fucking point? What's the point of the Second Amendment? What's the point of having a firearm? Isn't it to protect your family? Are we supposed to assume that someone was willing to break into your home violently? That that person's not going to harm you? You got to call the police? How long is the police going to take to get there? What if you have a family? What if you have children? What if you have a wife? You're supposed to just let this person break into your house? You can't do anything about it. It's insane because they're hiring the most insane district attorneys and they're making it easier and easier for people to get out of jail who've committed violent crimes. I mean, they've lost their fucking minds. And I don't know how [1:34:01] it comes back. Other than they have to get some hardcore Republican governor who starts cleaning things up and Just cuts back on all the waste and cuts back on all the bullshit and just put their foot down It's gonna take a long time. How about I have hope but I have hope well, that's beautiful. I Got time. I got plenty of time. I'm not going anywhere. I hope that you're right But I don't have that much hope. I just see that they're indoctrinated into this liberal ideology and they just believe that this is the only way to think and behave. And until it bites them in the ass, I've met a lot of people there that I knew that were really hardcore liberals who have now completely turned around and now they're Republican. And now they've moved out, they've moved to Tennessee, they've moved to Florida, they've now completely turned around and now they're Republican and now they've moved out, they moved to Tennessee, they moved to Florida, they moved to Texas, and like, no, no, no, no, I see where this is going. But then it's like, I sometimes I keep thinking, what's the end game? What's the goal for the people that are doing this? [1:35:03] Well, the real question is, who's funding? More power? It's not even necessarily more power. I mean, the real money, you see, it's like, what's the end? What's the goal? It's very confusing, but I think generally there are people, genuinely, there are people that are funding this that want to see Western society collapse. Like my daughter was going to school in reverse of Vermont. Beautiful for there. But she already had it. She's moving to Tampa now. Really? She's like, be closer to us. It's like so people doing all these protests against American army. Yeah. Against, it's like she's like, we have a son, one of my sons in the army. And she's like, no. So she put an army shirt, sweatshirt and walk right through the protest. And like the girls who come home and give her the looks and she'll just look at them [1:36:03] and people will go, yeah, it's like, silence is violence. Flip them the finger. It's like, how about that for violence? Silence is violence is one of the dumbest fucking things. Silence is violence. Violence is violence. If you say silence is violence, you've never seen violence. Yeah. The less someone's being quiet while they're beating the fuck out of you. So it's just violence, it's not violence. Violence is violence, you fucking idiots. It's like my god, so she had her over there. She spent one year and she's like, man, I can't put up with this anymore. The teacher was talking trash about, she's like, I didn't pay to hear the teacher and the political beliefs. Yeah, yeah. So she should get up and leave class and say, yeah, she's like, I had it, she's done, I'm moving. I was like, all right, let's go. It happens everywhere. I mean, it even happens here. [1:37:01] There's just certain teachers that just feel that they have this ability to enforce their political beliefs on kids And they'll be very angry you one guy got kicked out of school here because he had to make America great again hat on Hmm would just whether or not you support Donald Trump the sentiment behind making America great That should be everybody should be on board with that the idea that making America great in a hat is offensive to people. It's like, what? How? Help me out. It's not, you know, you're not saying anything bad. You're saying make America great. Wouldn't it be awesome if America was great? Who disagrees with that? How could you disagree with that? Great means everybody does well. Your family does well. The streets are clean. Everyone's safe. There's less crime, less violence, more jobs. That's great. Why would you be against that? How could you be against that? And how could you think that that sentiment is offensive? That's what's so twisted about the world that we're living in today. And that's why sometimes I [1:38:01] keep thinking again, what's the end game? What is in for whoever's behind all this? Right. More money, more power, more than what they have already. It's like, I don't know. To destroy society for what? What's the purpose? I don't know. That's why I keep thinking. It seems like, I wish I knew. I wish it made sense. It doesn't make sense to me. I think it's a lot of it is influenced by foreign governments, I think foreign government influence universities by supporting people with very ridiculous ideologies and then making sure that those people with ridiculous ideologies enforce those things in children. And then you have social media, which social media is also propped up, especially TikTok, which is essentially owned by China. And they promote all these ridiculous things and these things get into kids' heads and they're on TikTok every day. And then they start thinking that this is the only way to think in behave. But do it. Sometimes, the first thing comes in, it's like, do it, I think, in the business of martial [1:39:05] art business If your school have a hundred students or a thousand students, this will make a difference to me I prefer that you succeed and have a thousand students. Yeah Well be the goal for me to make you have no students. You see it's like I want you to go because if you grow I grow right but then like on the world society and People trying to destroy one Country trying to destroy the other for what? But you're thinking logically power to have more power to. It's also it's also people are trapped in an ideology. They're trapped in this woke mindset you can call it woke whatever you want to call it but this ideology of what we're seeing with these young ridiculous kids and universities today. It's like they're trapped in [1:40:01] this way of thinking and they don't think about the end game. First of all because they're very young and they don't think about the end game. First of all, because they're very young and they don't know anything and they wanna rebel against society, which all young people wanna do. They wanna rebel against people that are older and they wanna think that they know better than the people that are older. And then eventually they get older. And as they get older start to realize, you know what I think the problem is? People are fucking lazy. You know, I think the problem is people don't have discipline. You know, I think the problem is people don't plan for the future, people don't work hard, they don't, like everybody should have the opportunity to work hard and get better and move ahead and try to better your life and better the life of your family. And if you think that way, you're gonna have a good society. But if you think that society is evil, and it's all colonists, and that we gotta destroy it, and take it all down, and capitalism is evil. Okay, what are you gonna replace it with? They didn't even thought this thing through. What are you gonna replace it with? Communism? You've been to a communist country, it's fucking hell. And you know what happens in a communist country? [1:41:00] You have to enforce it. How do you enforce it with the military? And if nobody's armed, but the military, now you have a dictatorship. Now you have a brutal military dictatorship that decides what you can and can't do. That's what Cuba has. Decides for you. Yeah. That's what China has. North Korea has. Good luck. Good luck with that. There's plenty of examples of that. None of them are good. There's no examples of communism working anywhere where it's for the betterment of everybody. One thing that that come into America from Brazil, it was a lot like in Brazil, they put you down a lot. I remember when I won the UC, there's a thousand guys that will do better than him. This is not a thing. Everybody will say, yeah, it's not a lot of people are like, yeah. His accomplishment is not that big of a deal. Different than America, they push you up. Yeah. You see, they changed their mentality now in Brazil. [1:42:02] Oh really? But back then used to be like this. That's interesting. The mentality changed. Why did the mentality change in Brazil? Don't know, but the change. I can see that now. People try to push you up now instead. But back then, when I won, I was like nah, no big deal. These guys will do much better than him. And they came over and they got beat up over he badly in the UFC. But that's one thing they attract America culture was like they're trying to always push you up. And seems like that change now, they're trying to push you down now. In some places, in some circles. Yeah, but there's still quite a few people in America that still believe that. Oh yeah. I think that's more prevalent here than anywhere else in the world. The saditude that we want people to succeed and celebrate success. But then this whole thing what's going on right now, it's almost like they want to crash. It's like why? [1:43:01] It's usually losers. Losers who don't have anything going on and they want other people to be losers as well. They don't want people to succeed. And also they connect success with the worst examples of success. Like they connect the idea of financial success with people being oppressed. Obviously, people being oppressed is terrible. But all financial success is not oppression. That's ridiculous. Like if you have a school, like for example, if you have a Jiu-Jitsu gym, if you have a Jiu-Jitsu academy and you have a thousand students, there's nothing oppressive about that success. That's all beneficial. Beneficial to your students, it's beneficial because if you have a thousand people, then you have a place that's run well and you have stuff. You have staff, you have people that are employed there, and also you have plenty of classes. So I can get a class of 6.30 in the morning before I go to work. 6.30 a.m. class, I'm done by eight, I shower up, I'm in the office at nine, I feel good, I got something done today. And I'm getting better at Jiu Jitsu, like, ooh, this is amazing. You know, and then you have classes all day long, [1:44:05] and everybody's getting better, and the level is high, because there's guys that are good in the gyms, you get excited, and you're thinking about your game, you think about constantly improving. That's not impressive. There's nothing oppressive, and the person who runs at gym, they're making good living, and they feed their family, and they have a And the impressive. The impressive. Yeah, the pupil. Yes, there's nothing impressive about that success. We're not talking about the success of like the military industrial complex or like, you know, the oil companies polluting the ocean. No, you're talking about there's a lot of people that work hard and their success is not even remotely oppressive. So when people connect all capitalism to degradation of the environment and controlling of people and oppressing people, that's ridiculous. That's just a full hearty way of looking at the world. Yeah, it's a, like I said, if your school have no students or a thousand students, [1:45:03] I don't make any more money. Right. So, but I want you to have a thousand students I don't make any more money right so but I want you to have a thousand students it's like because if you have a thousand students if I come to teach if you're having students I'm not gonna come over exactly but I want you to succeed yeah yeah so I want to fill up your school are you primarily doing you do like seminars now? Do you love seminars? I'm building a school in Sarasota. Oh nice. Yeah. Nice. I haven't had a school. I used to teach with Horton Until 2000. Then I stopped teaching at their school at their academy and the Gracia Academy and just went to do seminars But now I'm building a school for my son and I. Oh wow, that's great. I love to travel, to see the world. But I'm gonna build a building up there. We've got to place a location already, just waiting for permits. Oh that's great. Be my first headquarters. That's great. That's gonna be awesome. Boy, that's gonna be successful. [1:46:01] That's the location's awesome. Boy, a hoist gracy school and for the booth that's gonna be big right away I mean I've had first day you'll be full yep, yeah, we got a lot of students already just on the stand by Ready to go for us. Yes. How long do you think before you open about good eight months? Nice. We're just waiting for the final permits and they start building we're gonna tear down the building and then build up The build up. The build up is fast. This is a permit takes forever in Florida. Yeah, takes forever a lot of places. And how big is this place gonna be? Big enough. Big enough. Very big, yes. Yeah. We're talking three floors. Oh, wow. So is it gonna be different things in there? Like, wow. So is it gonna be different things in there? Like, yeah. What is the plan? Do you want to give the full details? Not yet. Not yet. Well, you let me know. Let me know when you're about to open. We'll let everybody know. The location is awesome. That's great. Five minutes from the beach. Oh, that's beautiful. [1:47:00] That's exciting. That's very exciting. That must be really exciting. Look forward to something like that five minutes from the beach to Beach and Florida. I'm like my son No Sharks on the Sharks on the East Coast, right? Oh, are they I'm on the West Coast? So the West Coast and I was going to the Gulf Other sharks in the Gulf too. Sharks don't like Brazilians man. No Sharks for you Out there sharks in the golf too. It sharks don't like Brazilians man. No But Brazilians that they look at Italians they don't like Brazilians that's hilarious. That's hilarious That's they think it's all a different tree that's buddy Hey look at me like hold on it's too many too many bones on this one, man I'll choke on this one. Let me get that meaty one over there with all the muscles look at that That's a risota Jesus Christ voice that's a shark in Sarasota that's a pattern look you can't read on the boat man you can't even feed those fucking head we can't feed those we can't see Jesus Christ we swim with those across the buffet and is that thing doing just pulling up his boat? Oh my god, saying hi. [1:48:06] Those are pets. Look, sharks. Do you surf? No, not like white. Is he in San Diego still? He surfs a lot. He goes to Bali every year, spend a month over there. Tissarks down there, bro. A lot of sharks down there. Tissarks down there, bro. Yeah. A lot of sharks in there. San Diego. Yeah. There's sharks everywhere, man. It's like, eh. It was a group of people that were training for a triathlon, and they were in the ocean doing a swim, and one of them got killed by a great white. And my friend went swimming there the next day. Because he had to prepare for the swim that you get. The shark was like, you hit stomach full, so. I don't know if we get full that easy. And then they keep eating. I would probably told his friends, and I got a swimmer the other day. Well, a swimmer's over here. Is that a swimmer's over there? Yeah. That's gay as a shit out of me. Shark's scared. That's shit out of me. [1:49:00] Woof. That's what the one, like bears to me are not as scary as sharks. If there's bears, you got a gun, you got bear spray, you know what you're doing, you're careful. I think you're probably, you know. Hey, the bear is hunting you too. That's true. You could, you could, well, it depends on what kind of bear too, right? If you run into a hole, they move so quiet man. I know for such a better one. 200 pounds, 250 pounds. Yeah. You don't hear them coming right behind you. When you were a bear hunting, were you using bow or rifle? This one was rifle. I haven't done a bear bow hunting yet because that's a very close shot man. Yeah. My as far as I can go is like 30 35 is pushing for me. Yeah. So I'm not as proficient on the bow yet. Hmm. So A range in your yard where you could practice. No, I don't do a yard. It's big. How big is your yard? Yeah, it's not that big. How far pool got a pool? [1:50:02] Like how much distance do you have that you could shoot in your yard? Dan oh ten yards on the at 20s like it says Florida where I am the yard's open Mm-hmm. I see so the next door no Don't point that boat yeah, it's even though it's Florida. Yeah, yeah Is there an archery range near you? No, no. Oh, that's one. Yeah, yeah. So where do you go to practice? When I go, man. Oh, only when you hunt? Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, that's why you get on a shoot 30 hours. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh two days and practice and let's go. I jump first and I forget out later. That would freak me out. Cause I have to practice when I go hunting, like say like if I'm like five weeks out, I'm shooting hundreds of arrows every day. For five weeks, I wanna make sure. [1:51:00] Because I've shot, like the war. It's kinda like the swim. I swim about maybe 10 times and then swim across the upper bay. I want to feel confident. Like if I have a 75 yard shot on an elk, I want to be confident that I can make that shot. 75. Yeah, I've shot an elk at 75 yards. Yeah. I've shot an elk at 80 yards. We saw some elk last year about 89 yards, but I was like, nah. It's, you have to, it came through the yards. If they're not moving, if you know they're feeding and they're not moving and there's no wind and you know you practice at 100 and you know you can make it, but you have to be like, you know what it's like, it's like, I'm like a high level purple belt, brown belt in bow hunting. I'm like a high level purple belt, brown belt in bow hunting. I'm not a black belt. I'm a white belt. Yeah. Yeah. 30 yards is good. I got it. Why belt with one stripe? I found a spot. Sarasota Arches. Look at this. Look at all that. Look at all that. Look at it is, but you can send me that address. Private club up requiring membership. Hey Sarasota Arches, won't you let in the goat? Horace Grace, you need to place to practice. [1:52:08] That's nice. Yeah, I'm sure they'll let you. That'd be great. There you go. Now we got your spot. Now you just go there. Just, you only need a few hours a day. Just, you just need that muscle memory. You need that feel, that feel of the relaxed shoulder, and just no anticipation of the shot pulled through to me. So I have to get that ingrained in my head, that technique has to just be over and over and over again. Where it's ingrained in my head so that when I'm drawing on an animal, it's just, I know exactly what to do. There's no questions. Sometimes it's almost like shooting. Mm-hmm. I shoot quite a bit. And sometimes it's done some competition. Mm-hmm. And I see the guys starting and looking at the target and shooting as ready and they're concentrating the target when they say shooting as ready, [1:53:02] I look away. So set, go. I look up and shoot it, just pick it up and find it. Yeah. But don't you think that because you fought so many times and because of all your years of Jiu Jitsu and all, like things like shooting and things that involve technique and concentration, like they come naturally. I think so. Yeah, I think so too. I think so is like a I'm very patient. I Know how to control my breathing. Mm-hmm. Don't get excited. Right. You see like when I draw for the elk It was a cow. I draw It was less day of hunt, really. For day, four days hunting that elk man. I draw on the cow. I bow showed up, so I just turned, foot fire on the boat. It was like, hey, but I was gonna shoot a cow. I was like, I gotta take some meat home man. It's been four days chasing, nothing came close. [1:54:03] And I cow came close to the yards and the cow got in front of me I draw in the bokeh move I just turned. Just perfect shot. Bam done. What kind of broadheads are you using? Oh, that was the local guy at the farm and what I was giving me the broad heads. I can't remember what it was. Mechanical or the fixed broad head? No mechanical. Rage? Was it a rage? It was the blade that was going to be there. Yeah, probably a rage. Yeah. Yeah, like those. John Dudley has his own broad head now. He made like a better version of a rage. Like a more durable, sharper version of a rage. So G5 is making them, it's called the T2. It's a new mechanical that he designed, the John designed, that they're just, they're just starting to release now. I think they just started to sell them. But he sent me some prototypes. I like it a lot. It's great, bro. Yeah. Yeah. The guy that formed the word I was, [1:55:01] he supplied, that was last year. So the form that I was, his supply, that was last year. So, where was that? Montana. Oh, nice. Yeah, great, great falls. Yes. A lot of Elke Montana. Montana. So beautiful. And deer and got everything. Isn't it just so amazing being out there too in the wild? It's just so peaceful. Even if I don't hunt further in catch, I tell the guys when they take me out, sometimes I feel the under pressure catching. Some say, dude, if I don't catch anything, I'm happy. Just being here. It's like just a pursuit. And knowing that sometimes you're gonna go home empty handed. It's difficult. It's a very difficult thing to do. That's what makes it good. Like I said, 70% of the time, I come home with nothing. Yeah. But that's part of why it's fun because it's hard to do. And some people don't understand that. But they just want results. But then when I eat, it's like, I got this. Yeah. I cooked some elk the other night. And as I was cooking and I was thinking like, yeah, I remember where I was. I remember where it was 52 yards shot down into a canyon. [1:56:08] Perfect shot. I watched the elk go 30 yards pile up. I watched it die. I went up, quartered it, carried it out. We carried it over the mountain, got it into a four by four, drove it back to the lodge, took it apart. I remember everything about it. So like being there, I have photos. I have photos of the impact shot. I have photos of the animal. It's like in my mind, this meal has a history. And I taught all my kids, talk to them. I didn't teach them, I talked them out and the local guys who teach them how to hunt from a young age. All of them. That's great. How to skin the deer. Yeah. How to stab a hog with a knife. Oh, gee. That's heavy. The stab in the hog is wild. That's good. The hog hunting with dogs is. Dogs and the knife. For the first time I took my daughter and asked her, she was maybe 13, 12, 13. I asked her, hey, do you wanna go? [1:57:06] She's like, no, dad, I'm gonna stay on the ATV. Okay, so I'm over there, I'm stepping the hug and when I back off, I look and she have her knife open behind me, she's waiting there. And I was like, oh, you decide to come. She's like, nah, in case the hug got you, that I would have jumped on him You decide to come just like nah in case the dog the hog got you that all the Out of jump on him and catch you stab him for you I was like okay, you didn't want to do it, but you were backing me up. You're my backup guys Well my boys all did it from my young age everybody started It's a good thing to learn and it's also start to shoot and best meet that you could ever eat. The best meet, the best meet in terms of like the healthiness of it, how good it tastes. It's so good for you. And shooting, teaching them from a young age, they all respect the gun. They all respect the weapon. Yeah. I think everybody should know how to shoot a gun. It's the worst case scenario. You should always know how to defend yourself. [1:58:08] You should always know how to operate a gun. You know, at least you should know gun safety. You should understand. Yes. What the gun can do. Yes. So they respect that. Yeah. All of them know how to check and not to point in for my young age. They all learn that at home. That's beautiful. It's very important. There's a lot of people that are scared of guns. And that's just because of ignorance. They just don't understand. Yeah. Yeah. I love my guns. What are the laws in Brazil are very different, right? You cannot buy guns very hard. I think the max you can get is a 380 caliber. So hunting rifle? No, no. No hunting rifles. Well, 380s. Oh, 380s, the handgun. Oh, okay. The 380s, they're just very small. Oh, very small. Very small. [1:59:00] Small than a military weapon. Really? So you can buy nine millimeters, 45 nothing above that. Wow. Shotgun, if you own a farm, yes, but no hunting rifles, no none of that. No two to threes and ARs and... That sucks. Nope, it's very hard, man. Very hard. It's almost impossible to buy it. But all the bad guys have it. Yeah. Great. Unbelievable. Terrible. Terrible. RPGs. Yeah. Grenades and... Jesus Christ. Yeah. But you cannot buy guns in Brazil. Very hard. And take a long time in the price, it's like, pfff. Wow. $500 gun over here in America, over, they'll cost 2000. Wow. So when you come to America and you have this ability to just buy guns, because the second amendment, it's pretty nice. [2:00:00] Very nice. Yeah. Especially if you're in a place like Florida that really supports the second amendment. Yeah, especially if you're in a place like Florida that really supports the second amendment Yeah, Martin California California's nuts. Well in California, they're starting to hand out concealed carry permits to people in Los Angeles again Because the crime is so bad and they realize like But you can come but if you have it you should somebody you're gonna go to jail Yeah, even though you inside your house. I know and they walk in and they have guns You shoot them. It's your fault What's crazy is if you shoot them you'll go to jail But if they break into your house and they rob you and beat you up They'll get right out if they get arrested. They'll put them right back out on the street Yeah, it's insane. It's almost like it's designed to destroy society like if you wanted to destroy a society That's how you would do it. Yeah, it's pretty fucked up. And then, and if I keep telling people, if America falls, I think the whole world will fall. The rest of the world will fall. Yeah, maybe that's the plan. It's where would you go? [2:01:00] Right. There's no place that has this kind of freedom. Leave America, where would you go? It's like it would have be it's It's tough to pick a place. I Used to think Australia, but then I saw how they handled the pandemic and was like oh fuck that Well, that's what happens when no one has guns yep the army just rolls in and tells you what to do and put you in concentration camps because you have a cold Like crazy. Where would you go? It's like that's the question I ask my kids and let them think for a little bit and it's we're in America you're gonna go because outside man it's tough. Yeah it's a tough world out there. Yeah well a person like yourself that's been everywhere you really kind of do understand that this is a special place. We're very fortunate to be here. And second, that's why I defended. Yeah, I'm pro police. Pro army, me too. Yeah, I defend the cops and the army and, yeah, what's also from Jiu Jitsu, [2:02:03] we know a lot of police officers. We know a lot of army people. We know a lot of police officers we know a lot of army people we know a lot of military people because they're always training yes and traveling the way I travel I'm not home to defend my family so who is going to defend them right it's the police so I mean favor of them yes well I try to help them out as much as I can. Yeah. Who is gonna defend this? They're gonna be the police, the army, they're gonna defend if some crazy country decide to invade us. So I'm gonna be the average Jordan next to next door. They're gonna come over and no You gotta be Joe Rogan to get his bow and be rumble out there. Shooting bows at nine yards under yards. I hope you like, I'll wait until they get on your clothes. Well maybe that's the Arches Club. [2:03:01] You practice your long range shots. Yeah, too far. How weighed a little bit. Well, listen, hoist, you're a legend. And it was a great running into you at the UFC. I'm so glad we got a chance to talk to each other. Because I've been wanting to make contact with you, get you on the podcast for a long time. I'm glad we finally did it, man. And I appreciate you very much. and when the school opens up in Florida you gotta come over fuck yeah I'll come I'll come choke me out once once sounds good thank you brother I appreciate you very much thank you all right bye everybody