25 days ago
Jenni Harris is the marketing manager of White Oak Pastures. www.whiteoakpastures.com
Will Harris is the owner of White Oak Pastures: a family farm utilizing regenerative agriculture and humane animal husbandry practices. His new book "A Bold Return to Giving a Damn: One Farm, Six Generations, and the Future of Food" is available now. www.whiteoakpastures.com
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[0:00:00] Welcome back. Well, how are you, sir? Good. Thank you. [0:00:02] I'm good to see you. Please introduce the world to your daughter. [0:00:04] Good. My middle daughter, [0:00:07] Jim Harris, who was used to work for me, but now I work for her. [0:00:14] Get used to it. That's got to be interesting. Well, [0:00:17] we'll tell you about it. Please do. And you guys the first people to [0:00:20] ever bring dirt to the studio. So I want to thank you for that. [0:00:34] So small and well. So here is your soil and compared to industrial commodity, what does this say? Burk, row crop. [0:00:36] So you can see the difference in the, I mean I don't know if you guys can see it very [0:00:40] clearly in the photo, in the video, but one of them is very light colored and the other one looks rich and dark and it's filled with twigs and all sorts of biological material. [0:00:51] It's probably some worms in there. [0:00:53] Yeah, probably. And this looks like what I'd like to grow something on. Whereas this looks like some stuff that blows in the wind when it gets dry out. [0:01:02] I'm going to show you that. [0:01:03] Yeah, please do. And it came from side by side, one side of the fence [0:01:07] versus the other side of the fence. [0:01:09] There's no difference other than the way [0:01:12] they've been managed over the last 20 years. [0:01:15] Yeah. [0:01:15] And we've showed many times that video [0:01:18] of the, was it a creek or a river near your house, [0:01:23] where the runoff from their farm is just polluting [0:01:28] the water. I mean a very clear line. I mean the difference is so stark. It's so stark. And how [0:01:36] is that legal by the way? Let me tell you what you see in there. So the brown water is coming off my farm. The red water is coming under the road. [0:01:48] There's a cove at by. [0:01:50] There's a video of that. [0:01:52] We've played that video many, many times. [0:01:55] Just to show people the difference between a regenerative farm and an industrial farm. [0:02:00] Is that me or my daddy? [0:02:02] Tell him he looks old. [0:02:04] Look at those arms. [0:02:05] No, scale. [0:02:07] I mean, he's scaling like a fish. [0:02:10] So, you know, this is, it's just strange that it's legal [0:02:17] to just have the runoff pollute the rivers. [0:02:21] That it seems like someone would see that and say, well, the downstream effects [0:02:27] of this have to be pretty substantial and pretty detrimental to the fish, to every other [0:02:34] piece of land that's downriver that's getting counter all this fertilizer and pesticides [0:02:40] and herbicides and this has to be terrible. [0:02:42] Well, and if it was a construction site, [0:02:46] you would have to be under what they call SWIT. [0:02:48] That's an acronym for something stormwater or something, [0:02:50] something. [0:02:52] And they wouldn't allow that. [0:02:55] But agricultural land is not under SWIT. [0:03:01] In fact, it's not even under SWIT. [0:03:03] That's a subsidized production system by the government. [0:03:08] So it's not only okay or acceptable, you know, it's the status quo. [0:03:14] So they've just accepted a certain amount of pollution? [0:03:17] Well, I guess it would be a nearly unlimited amount of solution because nobody checks it. [0:03:24] Nobody checks the water. Nobody checks to see what the results are. [0:03:28] Which is insane. [0:03:29] What is it like downstream? [0:03:31] What is downstream of that? [0:03:33] Well it used to be the Apolachicola Bay, which was a thriving orstering grounds, but they [0:03:40] don't orsture there anymore. [0:03:42] Because of the runoff and the farms. Because of the decline in orship population, [0:03:47] which is because of runoff, correct. [0:03:50] Wow. [0:03:52] There's like a whole town at the Lachikola [0:03:54] that's used to be a real thriving community [0:03:56] because of the orstering business and industry [0:04:00] and the whole town has suffered, [0:04:02] which is one thing we'll talk about [0:04:03] with regards to rural America. [0:04:05] But there's like a whole city that's suffering [0:04:10] because they can no longer do what they've done [0:04:11] for generations. [0:04:12] How come no one's filed a lawsuit? [0:04:17] Well, I'm not in the lawsuit filing business. [0:04:19] Not you, but someone from that town. [0:04:22] And someone from the oystering community, [0:04:24] because it seems like that's a no-brainer. [0:04:27] I mean, if you were running a tire company, [0:04:30] and the tire company was upstream of something, [0:04:36] and the water went down and started polluting it [0:04:39] and ruining people's livelihoods, [0:04:42] you would think that someone would have the grounds [0:04:43] for a lawsuit. [0:04:44] We had R.F.K. on on them and he talked a lot about, you know, in New York, the, you know, the [0:04:49] river and the pollution and how he led the charge, you know, people like that need to look [0:04:55] at Appalachia Colabay. And if you had a runoff from a tire manufacturing company, you could trace it back to that one entity, one [0:05:07] location. [0:05:09] That water comes from all over South Georgia and it's from everybody's fields and most [0:05:16] of it is treated the same way. [0:05:18] So I'm not answering a litigation question because I don't know, but it would be a hell [0:05:25] of a complex situation to jump on. [0:05:28] So you would have to sue a large number of farms? [0:05:32] You know, I don't know how that works, but yeah, but yeah, it was a large number of people contributing to it. [0:05:36] Virtually everyone who farms corn, cotton, peanuts, uses the same cultivation and the same pesticides. So I mean you would just [0:05:53] seem like a very very complex litigation to me. [0:05:56] It seems like it's at least worth a study. Have they done a study on the bay and the levels [0:06:02] of pesticides and various chemicals. [0:06:06] Dead, dead zones in the Gulf have been studied and Jamie can probably pull that up. [0:06:10] Could you do me a favor and just pull that microphone just a little closer to your face? [0:06:14] Just, yeah, just try to keep it like a fist away for your face like that. [0:06:19] So it seems like that they would want to study that though. [0:06:22] I mean, that seems, it's insane to me that they just allow that to continue [0:06:26] and it's happening every day, day by day, [0:06:28] just constantly dumping toxic chemicals into the water. [0:06:32] Okay, so I think, here, I'm certainly not answering [0:06:35] for that whole, kind of politically motivated question, [0:06:41] but you gotta remember that the politicians who control the bureaucrats are [0:06:48] controlled by pesticide companies, right, and if a firecracultural company is, there's [0:06:54] just a lot of money involved. [0:06:57] And if our politician running for office and begging for funding, I probably wouldn't want to be the guy that opened that can of worms. [0:07:08] It seems like it all boils down to that. [0:07:11] Money and politics. [0:07:12] If we could take money out of politics, [0:07:15] we could make it so that no one can donate [0:07:19] other than individuals in a very limited amount of money. [0:07:22] We could change everything. [0:07:24] I think so. We could change everything. I think so. [0:07:25] We could change everything. [0:07:26] It's such a dirty system [0:07:28] and it allows things like this to happen. [0:07:30] But then the question is [0:07:32] you explained how [0:07:34] you changed your farm [0:07:36] from an industrial farm to a regenerative farm [0:07:39] and that it took approximately 20 years [0:07:42] that we just had? [0:07:43] Yes, well, I mean, when you start that process, [0:07:48] moving from an industrial farm to what [0:07:52] with the regenerative farm that we run today, [0:07:55] coming out of the shoot, you see a decline in production. [0:08:00] And it lasts for a period of time, three years, four years, [0:08:03] or something. [0:08:04] Then you see a very gradual increase [0:08:08] until it gets back to where ours is today. [0:08:11] And where ours is today is not as high yielding [0:08:16] as if we used all the crop inputs. [0:08:19] But it's approaching that, [0:08:22] because we don't have to buy the crop inputs. [0:08:24] So I think it's a better, it's better for us. Certainly more resilient system. And if there was [0:08:31] legal or at least some sort of financial repercussions that were enacted on [0:08:37] the farm itself for the pollution it would seem like that would balance itself [0:08:42] out. Like if someone did the correct thing and said, hey, you guys are ruining the earth itself with this [0:08:49] just so you can make a little more money, [0:08:52] which is so crazy that that's allowed [0:08:55] and not just allowed but subsidized. [0:08:57] Anyway, the farmers are making a little more money. [0:09:01] You're right. [0:09:03] The big multi-national corporations [0:09:05] are making a hell of a lot more money, you're right. The big multi-national corporations are making a hell of a lot more [0:09:06] money because they're manufacturing these products and they're handling these huge quantities of [0:09:13] agricultural production and turning out this industrial food that we all eat. So the amount of [0:09:21] money is incredible. And don't forget, I think think I might have mentioned you when I spoke to you before that [0:09:28] It's a way of life that senior bureaucrats go to work for the big-eyed company [0:09:34] Yeah, so if you're a very senior person in DC in [0:09:41] Department of Ag and probably other departments and [0:09:44] Department of Ag and probably the other departments. And you're getting close to retirement. [0:09:47] You can get, you can, if you've done a good boy, you can retire and get a job [0:09:51] making twice what you were making with the government. [0:09:54] If you're not a good boy, you're just retired. [0:09:57] Right, just like the FDA and the pharmaceutical drug companies. [0:10:01] It's the same deal. [0:10:02] It's, it should be illegal. [0:10:04] Well, farmers aren't, I'll say this, farmers are less and less raising food and raising [0:10:11] food like products. [0:10:12] You know, there is a statistic said that farmers only get 14 cents of every food dollar [0:10:18] that's spent. [0:10:19] And you think about, wow, the person who cultivates the land, plants the seed, harvests the crops, they get 14 [0:10:28] cents of every dollar. [0:10:29] And the truth is the food production system has become such a long way from a farmer and [0:10:34] a consumer. [0:10:36] There's got to be room for distribution and manufacturing and logistics and whatever [0:10:42] else. [0:10:43] The food dollar is still there. [0:10:44] It's just the farmer's getting less and less of it, [0:10:46] because food and more looks less and less like food. [0:10:51] She's right, but in our case, [0:10:56] we get a hundred cents of every dollar, [0:10:58] but we still don't have much money. [0:11:00] We still don't make a lot of money. [0:11:02] We get a hundred cents, not fourteen, [0:11:05] but then we cover all these costs [0:11:07] that in the industrial system is just, [0:11:10] the farm is just the production are. [0:11:12] Well, in ours is different because we took [0:11:15] a hundred percent responsibility of that food product. [0:11:18] So we raise, we slaughter, we butcher, we package, [0:11:21] and we distribute. [0:11:22] So we take, we take account for all of those parts in the food production system so that we can [0:11:29] keep that whole dollar. [0:11:30] Now it's not profit because we have to pay for those things, but the whole dollar stays [0:11:35] in Bluffton. [0:11:36] And that's the important part. [0:11:38] Clay County, Georgia, what Bluffton is. [0:11:41] It was the poorest county in the United States of America in 2020. [0:11:46] Number one, not just Georgia, the whole country. [0:11:49] And when that whole dollar stays in Clay County, Georgia, [0:11:55] it's beginning to correct that. [0:11:58] That results because only 14 cents stays there. [0:12:01] Mm, that's the result. [0:12:04] And it seems like the problem is so complicated now because of fast food chains and because [0:12:11] of big cities that absolutely don't grow anything. [0:12:15] That when you're getting food, you have to get food at scale. [0:12:20] You have to get massive amounts of food. [0:12:21] Like say if you're living in California, if you're living in Los Angeles, [0:12:26] which is just an insanely overpopulated place, [0:12:29] and you wanna get beef, [0:12:31] especially if you wanna get a cheeseburger [0:12:32] from Jack in the Box or something like that. [0:12:34] I don't want me to pick on Jack in the Box, Burger King, [0:12:36] whatever. [0:12:37] Where's that meat coming from? [0:12:38] It's not grown from local cows, there are no local cows. You have to go pretty far out of town to find a farm that raises cows. [0:12:46] You can go an hour and a half out of town and find some cows, but that's not going [0:12:49] to feed everybody. [0:12:50] A lot of gone is not enough cows. [0:12:52] A lot of the cows from Australia and New Zealand. [0:12:55] You're a way. [0:12:57] A lot of beef is important. [0:12:59] Yeah, and a lot of elk. A lot of elk, if you buy elk at a restaurant, most likely you're getting in from New Zealand. I got a story about imports that I want to say. [0:13:08] This is really important. [0:13:09] So 25 years ago when dad decided to change the way we farmed, he knew that in order to [0:13:16] put all the cost that it was going to take to raise animals differently, he had to find [0:13:21] a consumer that would pay for that. [0:13:23] And so he went looking for customers and public super market was one of the first ones, [0:13:28] Whole Foods very quickly after. [0:13:31] And that worked out really well. [0:13:36] But the point I want to get to is that when dad started selling beef, grass-fed beef [0:13:43] to those two grocers, the first pound of American grass-fed beef to be marketed as American grass-fed beef [0:13:48] came from white oak pastures. [0:13:52] And that was not a sustainable option. [0:13:54] We can't feed the world. [0:13:55] We don't want to feed the world. [0:13:56] But fast-forward 20 years and over 85% of the grass-fed beef in the American market is imported product, not raised in America. [0:14:11] In that nuts, in 20 years, we've gone from being a very early innovator to just a mere [0:14:18] meager portion of 15%. That's true, but it's not the worst part the worst part is that [0:14:26] imported beef is legally labeled product of the USA. How's that? If value is [0:14:33] added in this country, it's a product of the USA. What? We compete with it [0:14:40] every day. How did they add value? Oh, oh, go ahead. No, you go. This is good. [0:14:46] If you grind it, slice it, cut it, package it, label it, re-box it, transport it. But the [0:14:55] animal make no mistake. The animal was born, raised and slaughtered in Uruguay, Australia, New Zealand, or 20 other countries. [0:15:09] Lithuania? [0:15:10] Lithuania? [0:15:11] Croatia? [0:15:12] The United States imports beef from places like Australia, Canada, and much of Latin America. [0:15:16] It then runs that beef through USDA inspection. [0:15:19] And if it passes, sticks a label on it that reads product of the USA. [0:15:24] How dare you? [0:15:26] But honestly, that's so dirty. [0:15:28] The erosion of this type of farming in America is completely [0:15:34] being exported to another country because we're importing [0:15:38] all of this product and then due to loop holes in labeling, [0:15:42] intentionally fraudulent labeling even selling a [0:15:45] dis product of the USA. [0:15:46] Then we have to consider if everybody's really concerned about climate [0:15:49] changes, CO2 output, think about the amount of freight, just these massive boats [0:15:55] that are making the way across the, did you see this thing they did recently? [0:15:59] I was reading this article and I was actually listening to a podcast. That's what it was initially. [0:16:06] But the podcast was about how they changed, I guess it was, I don't know what governing [0:16:14] body changed the emission standards for these gigantic freight ships. [0:16:21] And when they changed the emission standards, what they found was when they were releasing [0:16:25] less pollution into the air, it was doing less of a job of blocking the sun. So the ocean [0:16:32] water was getting warmer quicker than they anticipated. So it is having the opposite [0:16:37] effect. So they're trying to come up with different methods to mitigate that now. And [0:16:42] some of the methods are spring chemicals in the sky. Some of the methods are [0:16:46] spraying ocean water in the sky which sounds much more natural. [0:16:49] You know just taking some sort of machine but then again what's [0:16:52] powering that machine? How is that going to work? What is what are we doing? [0:16:56] Instead of just growing it here. Do we really be spraying sea water into the atmosphere? [0:17:02] Would you really have to do that? No, but I mean, it's just water. [0:17:06] That doesn't bother me. [0:17:07] That seems like the most organic solution. [0:17:10] You're gonna take seawater, but who knows? [0:17:12] I mean, think about all the pollution that's in the sea now [0:17:15] and microplastics in the sea. [0:17:17] Does that spray into the atmosphere [0:17:19] and that get into people's lungs now [0:17:21] and cause a host of new autoimmune issues and cardiovascular issues. Who knows? [0:17:26] It's so crazy that we're doing it this way. [0:17:29] So that label change, product of the USA, even though it was imported, occurred in 2015, [0:17:35] I think, 15 or 16. [0:17:38] And it was a reaction to the fact that some of us had gone into the grass-fed beef business [0:17:43] and were doing pretty good with [0:17:45] some really good years in the early 2000s. And then, of course, when they were allowed [0:17:51] to bring the imported beef in its product to the USA, the margin structure failed dramatically. [0:17:58] Of course. Dirty. Dirty. Everything is dirty. Well, you get money involved in stuff like [0:18:03] that and decisions that affect everybody, someone [0:18:06] always does something slimy. [0:18:07] Well, here's the thing. [0:18:09] I don't think either of us want to debate product quality or the fact that it is from [0:18:14] another country. [0:18:15] You know, the issue that we have is that it's being sold under the guise of product [0:18:19] of the USA. [0:18:20] Right. [0:18:21] So if you're a person who wants to buy all American-made stuff and American-raised beef and you're like, oh great, product of the USA, I feel like I'm doing a good thing. [0:18:27] It's like the textile industry. [0:18:29] The textile industry has been exported. [0:18:30] The automotive industry has been exported. [0:18:32] But at least in those situations, it's pretty clear what you're getting. [0:18:36] You're looking back at your shirt and it's a product of not America. I started working recently with a company called Origin that's in Maine. And they make... Crazy about them. [0:18:45] They make everything. [0:18:46] Yeah. [0:18:47] Everything American made. [0:18:48] They're crazy. [0:18:49] Every thread, all the cloth, there is one part of their boots that they have not been [0:18:52] able to source in America. [0:18:53] And it's sourced in Latin America. [0:18:55] That's the only piece. [0:18:56] But about they talk about it? [0:18:57] They do. [0:18:58] Very openly. [0:18:59] But they make hunting stuff, they make jujitsu geese, they make fantastic handmade boots, [0:19:06] and if you want to support an American-made company, [0:19:08] origin's great. [0:19:09] But, you know, they have a limited amount of, [0:19:11] they can only make so much of it. [0:19:13] You know, they have one major factory [0:19:15] that's doing it in Maine, [0:19:16] and it's all people working on it by hand, [0:19:18] and it's pretty cool, but it's, you know, it's limited. Yeah, we're not saying that beef from Australia is bad That's definitely not saying that there's a great beef from Australia. I'm sure and you're going everywhere. Yeah, just tell the damn truth tell the damn truth [0:19:32] We we had a [0:19:34] Really awkward situation that occurred last week [0:19:39] A company who is owned by friends of ours that we care about [0:19:47] was owned by friends of ours that we care about, was buying some grines from us, some trail actually, making ground beef out of. And Jenny was renegotiating the deal with them last [0:19:55] week. And it came out that they were importing some beef. What happened is they showed her [0:20:02] the projections of how much more they were selling and it was [0:20:05] just way up and they told her how much that they were going to buy from her and it was [0:20:11] flat and she said how are you doing that because we're pretty big supplier. [0:20:18] They always advertised three people as being suppliers and we went up and they said, you know, you're an important beef. [0:20:27] And there was a long silence they finally said they are. [0:20:30] And I told her, I was not on that call. [0:20:33] We're not going so. [0:20:35] I mean, I don't want to sell anything. [0:20:36] Because the thing had touched your name to it. [0:20:38] I don't, yeah, I don't want to be part of a scam. [0:20:41] That's a scam. [0:20:42] Yeah. And it's not even a scam in terms of quality. That's what you're saying, it's important. [0:20:47] It's not that there's this bad beef. [0:20:49] No. [0:20:50] It's just your line. [0:20:51] This is a household brand that you've probably eaten and you know, it's headquartered here. [0:20:59] But you know, we, I don't want to do that. [0:21:02] Yeah, and thank you for that. What led to this decision, the initial decision [0:21:08] to change your farm from an industrial farm [0:21:11] to a regenerative farm? [0:21:12] And what, I mean, there had to be a lot of soul searching [0:21:16] involved in that kind of a decision, [0:21:18] because it's not an easy one, and it probably cost a lot of money. [0:21:21] That was probably quite a headache. [0:21:23] Oh, it was all those things, and to be real honest with you, [0:21:26] I went into it with a little bit of nibbete. [0:21:30] I didn't think it was going to be as big a deal as it was, but it was. [0:21:34] I was a very industrial cattleman for 20 years, [0:21:40] graduated from the University of Georgia with a degree in animal science, [0:21:43] came home and put it to work. My dad had been a very industrial producer using all the [0:21:48] tools. [0:21:50] I was in a lot of pride in my knowledge and understanding [0:21:54] of how to raise cattle industrially, [0:21:56] and multicultural cattle at that time. [0:22:00] And I think probably because I was an abuser, I used, if it certainly used a little bit, [0:22:08] I used a lot. [0:22:10] And I just came to see the unintended consequences of that industrial system more clearly [0:22:18] probably than people that were playing closer to the roofs. [0:22:20] And I decided I didn't want to do it anymore. And I did not do a good job planning on alternative production program. [0:22:30] I just quit using stuff. [0:22:32] You know, I quit using hormone implants and sub therapeutic antibiotics and bad feed [0:22:39] stuff like chicken manure. [0:22:42] I quit using chemical fertilizer, I quit using chemical fertilizer, [0:22:45] I quit using pesticides and it was very expensive [0:22:49] for a while and it was economically painful [0:22:53] but we survived it. [0:22:55] And from day one I enjoyed it better [0:22:59] but from day one I made less money to a loss money [0:23:03] but then like goodness, your grass-fed beef became [0:23:07] a thing and it wasn't being imported, so we became profitable again. [0:23:11] Since you've gone public with it, I found about you from Fox. [0:23:15] I was watching television and you were doing this interview and we talked about the last [0:23:19] time you were here and this guy was rushing you. [0:23:22] I enjoy the way you talk, but you have a way of talking. [0:23:27] That's very deliberate and clear, and it takes a little time. [0:23:30] And this guy was just rushing you along and rushing you along. [0:23:33] And I immediately reached out to my booking guy, [0:23:36] and I said, let's get that guy. [0:23:37] I want to hear him talk. [0:23:39] It's just like, lay it out, [0:23:40] like give him all the time in the world to lay it out. And I'm really glad you did. But from the time that you went public, [0:23:46] have you seen more of a demand for your product [0:23:50] and for what you're doing? [0:23:51] I have. [0:23:52] But it's been filled by imported product. [0:23:55] The, the, the, [0:23:57] this whole thing that we're talking about. [0:23:58] Grassford, yes. [0:24:00] Grassford beef, passionate poultry, [0:24:02] all these more naturally grown meats and all the poultry [0:24:09] and all of it is catching traction. [0:24:15] But big food has figured out a way to cash in on it. [0:24:20] I can give a good example of that. [0:24:22] So the word free range. So free range by definition. So you would see [0:24:27] a brand with a grassy knoll and a red barn and a white fence and you know it would say free range. [0:24:35] So free range by definition is just access to the outdoors via a concrete pad or whatever. It's not [0:24:42] actually pasture raised poultry. it's just maybe a little different [0:24:47] than commodity in the house poultry. But it's at a fraction of the price. [0:24:53] You know, true pastured poultry might cost two or three hundred percent more than commodity poultry. [0:24:59] And so you have these consumers who are very busy. You know, they don't have time to learn the nuances and read [0:25:06] and research like, you know, you have done and we obviously do. [0:25:10] And so they see pastured poultry for $6 a pound or free range [0:25:15] poultry for $3 or $4 a pound. [0:25:19] You know, how could you expect for them to pay 50% more, 75% [0:25:24] or 100% more for something that is so loosely [0:25:28] defined and due to labeling, pretty misrepresentative of the way it's actually raised. [0:25:36] Yeah, free range sounds like you just let them out of the chicken coop and they wander around. [0:25:40] Like your wife, home the bird. [0:25:41] Right, like my yard. [0:25:42] That's it. [0:25:43] Yeah. [0:25:44] There's free range chickens in my yard right now. [0:25:46] That's why Marshall's here. [0:25:47] Hahaha. [0:25:49] Marshall doesn't get along with chickens. [0:25:51] We talked about that earlier. [0:25:52] But this is deceptive. [0:25:55] I mean, and it's unfortunate that they're allowed [0:25:57] to use those loopholes. [0:25:59] And that should be more clearly defined. [0:26:02] I mean, if you would rather save money, and I understand that if someone's on a budget, [0:26:06] you want to save money, I get it, 100%. [0:26:08] But I've gotten eggs from the grocery store [0:26:11] that say free range, and I get it, [0:26:12] and I crack it open, and it is that light yellow bullshit yolk [0:26:17] that I know. [0:26:18] I know that chicken has just been eating feed. [0:26:22] It's not eating grass, it's not eating bugs, it's not doing things that chickens do. [0:26:26] And when you get a chicken that is doing things that chickens do, you get that dark orange yolk. [0:26:32] Blood yolk. [0:26:33] It's so dark and it tastes so much better. It's so much better for you, so much more nutrient dense. [0:26:39] And it's what a chicken egg is supposed to be. [0:26:41] And sadly, I don't think the consumers will ever really get [0:26:46] what they're looking for. [0:26:48] And let's say no exactly who they're buying it from. [0:26:51] Right. [0:26:52] It's just so easy to copy these, embrace these new. [0:26:58] I mean, right now we talk about regenerative. [0:27:01] Well, I mean, everybody, now everybody got regenerative. [0:27:04] It's too easy to label it. [0:27:07] And it's too hard for really big companies to produce it. [0:27:12] So it puts the onus on the consumer to know who they're buying from. [0:27:16] But that brings me back to the initial question. [0:27:19] Is it even possible to use regenerative farming the way you folks have your farm and feed everybody. [0:27:27] Can you feed, can you sell to McDonald's? [0:27:32] I mean, is it even possible? [0:27:34] I mean, how much beef do they use in a day? [0:27:37] It has to be insane. [0:27:39] The answer is no. [0:27:41] We can't sell to McDonald's. [0:27:43] We couldn't start scratch the surface. [0:27:46] And I don't know the answer, but I'll say this. [0:27:50] When you say, [0:27:54] can we produce enough food like that? [0:27:56] Can the industry produce enough food like that [0:27:59] without doing such extraordinary damage? [0:28:03] We're gonna pay for this. [0:28:05] Right. You know, pay for this. Right. [0:28:06] You know, this stuff is so cheap. [0:28:08] Not because it's really being produced that cheap [0:28:11] is because expenses are thrown off [0:28:14] and not borne by the producer or the company by it. [0:28:18] Like what? [0:28:19] Give it great, great. [0:28:20] The dead zone and the golf would be a great example. [0:28:23] That's a great example, [0:28:24] because I mean, think about the extraordinary amount of money [0:28:27] it would take to take the Gulf and bring it back to a pristine condition. [0:28:31] Or wildfires. [0:28:33] How much do we pay every year to put out wildfires out of the Gulf? [0:28:38] Five for wildfires. [0:28:39] That soil right now. [0:28:41] You know the experts tell us it is like how many years left? [0:28:45] Sixty, but that was like three years ago. [0:28:47] Some people said who knows, but even the experts tell us there's a finite life left in [0:28:54] that degraded soil. This beautiful organic soil is perpetual. It'll last forever. [0:29:03] Right. Now that's a cost and it has a finite period of time and I'm [0:29:10] just not sure how this is all going to work out. The water in the ground, you know, so much of these [0:29:15] crops here, so you, I told you that one of them, the degraded soil is a half percent organic model. [0:29:24] The degraded soil is a half percent organic model. The beautiful soil is over five percent organic model. [0:29:30] One percent organic model will absorb on one inch rainfall. [0:29:34] So the degraded soil will absorb half an inch of rainfall. [0:29:39] The beautiful organic soil will absorb a five inch rainfall. [0:29:43] So it requires a tremendous amount of irrigation [0:29:47] for the degraded soil to make it. [0:29:49] Well, we got problems with water in the ground, [0:29:51] even in the southeast and certainly in the west. [0:29:54] So all of these resources we're just using up [0:29:58] and using up and you, it's pissing in your bridges [0:30:00] to slay wall. [0:30:01] Mm. [0:30:02] Pissing in your bridges to slay wall. [0:30:04] It's a good short-term is a very long term strategy. [0:30:05] It's a good short term strategy, but long term? [0:30:07] Not what you want to do. [0:30:08] That's a great way to put it. [0:30:10] I love it. [0:30:11] I'm going to use that one. [0:30:12] Pissing in your branches is a stay warm. [0:30:14] Yeah, it's really sad. [0:30:19] And it's weird how we haven't addressed this. [0:30:23] And how this is just something that just keeps going [0:30:25] and going primarily because of the amount of money that's involved and the [0:30:30] amount of money these companies are making by doing things the way they're [0:30:33] doing it right now and the fact that it's subsidized. Yeah it's dirty business [0:30:38] and it's a there there's an ancient soil in the Amazon called [0:30:45] terra prada. [0:30:45] Have you guys heard about this? [0:30:47] Well, I watched the Graham Hancock episode. [0:30:48] Yeah, fascinating. [0:30:50] So thousands and thousands of years ago, [0:30:54] the indigenous people of the Amazon figured out a way [0:30:58] to create this regenerative soil. [0:31:02] And it's composed of biological material, carbon, all sorts of different things. [0:31:09] They don't exactly know how they made it and they don't know how to recreate it, but this [0:31:14] is a self-sustaining soil. [0:31:17] And when you grow in it, it acts like this soil that you folks have. [0:31:22] And these people that lived thousands of years ago [0:31:25] figured out how to way to make this sustainable soil. [0:31:29] It just seems like that is something, [0:31:32] if there's so much money involved in all this, [0:31:34] that's something that someone would be able to figure out how to recreate today. [0:31:38] This is the terra prada. This is the stuff that exists. [0:31:41] So on the left you see the actual soil, [0:31:43] what it looks like before it's treated. That terra praida on the right is entirely man-made and entirely man-made [0:31:51] from an unknown origin. We know the folks, the people that live there, they're the ones [0:31:55] who did it, but we don't know how they did it. And what we do know is that you can grow [0:32:00] on that indefinitely. You can just keep going. They call it biochar, terapreta, but it's a phenomenal soil for growing crops on and for growing [0:32:10] things on. And it seems like that should be something that someone should [0:32:15] invest in. Some sort of research, I mean, look, if they figured out how to do it [0:32:18] thousands of years ago, and we assume that they didn't have computers and AI and [0:32:23] all the different advantages that we have in terms of technology and knowledge, figure it out. [0:32:29] Someone, there should be some sort of a large scale project if we're really, you have 57 [0:32:34] years left of top soil in the American farmlands due to monocrop agriculture and industrial farming. [0:32:40] Seems like they should be able to figure out a way to do that. [0:32:43] Actually, that's our farm. [0:32:45] Yeah. [0:32:45] And then you can see there about the subsoil below that guy's hand, which is like the degraded [0:32:52] soil, and the good soil, which is above it, which is a soil there. [0:32:58] We have built up. [0:33:00] Yes. [0:33:01] And it was built up by using the natural systems. We emulate the buffalo ranging over the continent. [0:33:10] It's not as good. [0:33:12] We don't have from Canada to Mexico to play with. [0:33:16] And we don't have hundreds of thousands of head, [0:33:19] but it's a microcosm example of that. [0:33:22] And it works. [0:33:23] Yes. [0:33:24] Then what was the story that you used to tell [0:33:26] that scientists figured out exactly what sea water was? [0:33:31] You know, like what made sea water? [0:33:33] And they meticulously made it in a lab. [0:33:37] But then somehow it wasn't after they did everything [0:33:40] that science told them that sea water was [0:33:44] when they made it, it wasn't seawater. [0:33:46] That makes me question my, you're right, that makes me question my reliance upon reductive [0:33:52] science. [0:33:53] The project that Jenny is talking about, I don't know where it was done. [0:33:57] Sammy, Jimmy could probably find it. [0:33:59] They took seawater and broke it down as well as they could with qualitative, [0:34:06] quantitative chemistry and decided, [0:34:10] it could determine exactly what was in it. [0:34:13] They were they put it back together, [0:34:14] a fish wouldn't live in it. [0:34:15] Oh, that was it. [0:34:16] Mm. [0:34:17] But yeah, what happened was not so much, [0:34:20] it had too much sodium or too much whatever. [0:34:23] It was the life was not there. [0:34:27] There's something else. [0:34:28] So there's the life, there's the... [0:34:31] The fact that they evolved together. [0:34:32] Yeah, and then there's some organic [0:34:34] compounds that's in the water. [0:34:36] I'm not gonna problem with the life. [0:34:37] They're actually living microbes that they couldn't put [0:34:41] back in there because they weren't there at all. [0:34:43] You can take it apart, put it back back together So you just have sterile sterile sterile ingredients that made seawater. Yeah [0:34:51] Probably like a fish tank but not even right because fish tank has fish poop and all sorts of other things that also [0:34:59] Have life. Yeah has life and leads to the microbes [0:35:04] Who? life and leads to the microbes. Whew! [0:35:06] You know, people listening to this probably feel very helpless. [0:35:08] You know, because it seems like it's one of those situations like, oh my god, this is a problem that it's almost like you don't realize there's an avalanche coming [0:35:15] because you're sitting in the town and you're like, oh this is a good place. [0:35:20] This is a safe place. But meanwhile, there's an avalanche coming. [0:35:24] And it's just a matter of time before it reaches the town. [0:35:27] No, not exactly. [0:35:29] Maybe that's about analogy. [0:35:32] Well, I said no. [0:35:33] I get it. [0:35:35] I agree, except for the fact that those people [0:35:38] sitting in that town, there's not a damn thing [0:35:41] they can do about that avalanche. [0:35:43] It's coming. [0:35:44] Right. When it comes through [0:35:47] the way we treat our land and water and air, consumers have power. They can do something [0:35:54] about it. You can't depend on the government because of the lobbyist thing, the dark [0:36:00] money we discussed that earlier. It won't be sadly the land grant university system [0:36:05] because so much of that funding comes from the huge [0:36:10] multinational companies that are profiting [0:36:12] from industrial production. [0:36:16] I give this a whole lot of things that won't come from. [0:36:19] But if it happens, it'll be by consumers. [0:36:24] Consumers making the choice, this is what I'm going to support. [0:36:28] This is not what I'm going to not support. [0:36:31] That's the only way it's going to happen. [0:36:36] And I don't know that it's going to happen. [0:36:39] Well, it seems like it would take a massive reeducation [0:36:42] of the American public in order for that to take place. [0:36:44] And then people would have to, [0:36:46] they would have to be willing [0:36:48] to be financially impacted by their decisions. [0:36:51] Because it's not gonna be, [0:36:53] you're not gonna be able to get a 99 cent cheeseburger. [0:36:56] Correct. [0:36:57] Correct. [0:36:59] To that point, nothing really brings about change except pain. [0:37:05] And I don't think you can educate fat, [0:37:11] satiated, full people, and get them to spend more money for their food. [0:37:18] But if there's enough pain, where it comes from health or polluted areas or weather or fire or that then maybe say. [0:37:32] And it's also a problem. People aren't aware of the issues. For most people, food is food. [0:37:38] They just go and get their food. And then they don't understand the consequences of eating bad food until it's kind of too late. [0:37:45] But they're not really supposed to. [0:37:47] Who's educating them? [0:37:48] Right. [0:37:49] I mean, if they go to the doctor, there's a pill. [0:37:51] You know, I mean, there's no, there's a lot of like, anti-correlation that's happening [0:37:56] where it's like, here's a problem, here's a solution, and we bypass all the hard work. [0:38:02] We want the easy solution. You know, so it's not just that consumers are making arguably wrong choices, but uninformed [0:38:11] choices for the food that they eat. [0:38:14] But additionally, we're big cycles of nature people. [0:38:17] We believe that in order to be good stewards of land, all of nature cycles need to be functioning. [0:38:23] And when they do, they create an abundance. [0:38:25] And that abundance is enjoyed by you and I, [0:38:29] in the form of meat and vegetables and whatever else. [0:38:33] And there's been so much intense focus on the carbon cycle. [0:38:38] And you think about what you hear from the media. [0:38:41] It's carbon, carbon, carbon, carbon. [0:38:43] That in reality, all of nature cycles [0:38:46] are broken. What about the water cycle or the mineral cycle or the grazing cycle? You [0:38:53] can't just work on one cycle. And so there's just so much misinformation and so much of [0:39:02] a spotlight on certain things. When in reality reality it's so much broader than that. [0:39:06] And it's not hard, it's just, they're not telling the complete story. [0:39:11] I agree with that fully. [0:39:14] And I don't think that's an action. [0:39:15] I think that the carbon cycle gets all the press because that's the one that somebody [0:39:21] can make so many fixing. [0:39:22] I agree with you. [0:39:24] Yeah, and that's unfortunate that this whole green thing has become a political movement, [0:39:30] and it's been a political movement that's hijacked by industry, and they are trying to enforce [0:39:36] mandates that will allow them to make extreme amounts of profit, and also to control people, [0:39:41] and to control their choices. You know, all you read is that cattle or great contributors to global warming, [0:39:52] greenhouse gases and all that. [0:39:54] We talked about before, there's a scientific study, a very expensive scientific study [0:39:59] called a life cycle analysis on our website that shows that we're actually sequestering [0:40:05] more carbon in our cattle side of our business than we're putting up. [0:40:09] So, you know, it's- [0:40:10] Which makes sense? [0:40:11] Yeah, that's the way it is. [0:40:13] So one of the differences in those two soils and the ones you showed and the one that you talked about in South America is carbon and my microscopic life in that soil. [0:40:24] Which is what makes it dark versus the other one? [0:40:28] So, you know, in the way you build those carbon rich soils is through proper livestock interaction. [0:40:40] That's the way the eight-foot deep soils in the great plains came about. [0:40:46] So he used her as a buffalo going across. [0:40:49] And it's the reason that those two soils look so much different. [0:40:52] And the one that you showed, James showed on the board though. [0:40:56] So I think we know a lot more about how to fix the problem than we acknowledge, but it's [0:41:04] just going to be so expensive, especially for big [0:41:08] food, big ag, big tail. [0:41:10] And ultimately also for the consumer. [0:41:13] Because if McDonald's went purely to regenerative agriculture, if they had a large-scale effort [0:41:18] to eliminate industrial farming and get all of their food through regenerative agriculture, [0:41:22] there's not a chance in hell that can charge $0.99 for a cheeseburger. [0:41:26] You know, and I'm not opposed to there being change [0:41:31] like McDonald's, but I just don't know how they work [0:41:35] with any sort of local food movement. [0:41:38] I just don't know how you make that work. [0:41:39] Right. [0:41:40] And then how do you make it? [0:41:42] So I mean, there's a large amount of people in this country that [0:41:48] Primarily eat fast food unfortunately [0:41:53] That's that's where they get their calories from and you see it because of the health consequences I mean it's it's a gigantic issue in this country that we if you look at the human beings [0:41:59] I'm sure you've seen these [0:42:01] Photographs of people in the beach in the 1950s and 60s versus [0:42:05] 2023. [0:42:06] 2023 is like it's insane. [0:42:08] How obese everybody is. [0:42:10] And that's not an accident. [0:42:13] That's a direct result of the way we eat and where it comes from. [0:42:18] It's the same with our animals. [0:42:20] Yeah. [0:42:21] They go and feed our animals just to blow them up fast and quick with cheap food. [0:42:27] That's what we do our people to. [0:42:29] Yeah, that is what we do. [0:42:32] Yeah. [0:42:33] Well, in marketing, we create our own customers. [0:42:35] Those people who suffer from obesity and sedentary lifestyles that have diseases and whatever [0:42:42] else, then we get to sell them medicine. [0:42:44] Yeah. [0:42:45] And then the medicine's called side effects, [0:42:47] which then we treat with more medicine. [0:42:49] Yeah. [0:42:49] So I'm the director of marketing, [0:42:52] and one thing that I love is, [0:42:55] is just good old fashioned marketing [0:42:57] and reoccurring business and returning orders [0:43:00] and all those things. [0:43:02] I see how that works. [0:43:04] The very idea that these lifestyles create a certain issue, [0:43:10] which are then prescribed with certain medicines [0:43:12] that then create more issues, that we treat with more medicines, [0:43:15] what a genius plan. [0:43:17] That's great. [0:43:18] I mean, it's terrible. [0:43:20] If you want to buy a yacht. [0:43:21] It's well as terrible for the people and for the environment. [0:43:24] But I mean mean Hill is great [0:43:27] profitable [0:43:28] I'll give you another slant on that we talked about the changes I made what I used to do [0:43:32] Do what I do now and one of the? [0:43:36] Primary changes is from the from the 30 thousand foot level is I used to go in my pastures every day looking for [0:43:47] something to kill. I was looking for a fungus on the grass to put a [0:43:53] bunch of side on, looking for an insect, but insects I don't looking for another [0:43:57] competing weed that I put herbicide on looking for parasites in my cattle, owning them insects, [0:44:07] owning them, I was looking every day for something to kill. [0:44:11] I was a successful commercial cattle [0:44:13] when it turned to profitability. [0:44:15] And I was successful because I kill stuff every day, [0:44:20] spent money to high tech companies to kill stuff. [0:44:25] Now since I made the change, I'm trying to keep things alive. [0:44:29] You all believe that all these species have a role out there. [0:44:35] And I want to keep things in balance. [0:44:37] We're trying to keep things alive. [0:44:38] We're not trying to kill any of it. [0:44:41] You're trying to create a contained natural environment. [0:44:45] Symbiotic relationships between the animals. [0:44:48] Yeah. [0:44:49] But that's an hour because of the food situation. [0:44:53] And that's what the whole earth should be. [0:44:55] That's how it evolved. [0:44:56] Yeah. [0:44:57] And it's just recently within the last like how many years that was done it this way. [0:45:01] Since World War II, I believe I thought about that a lot, read about it a lot, and I think World War II is kind of [0:45:08] when we started the change. [0:45:10] Because we needed food. [0:45:12] Well, actually I should say the end of World War II, [0:45:14] but yeah, we needed the food, so there was demand [0:45:17] to produce it, and then World War II's war effort [0:45:20] gave us so many tools. [0:45:22] The munitions manufacturing became fertilizer, [0:45:27] manufacturing, the nerve gas became pesticides, onanone. [0:45:33] Hmm. [0:45:34] Phew. [0:45:37] How do you unwind all that? [0:45:39] That's what's crazy, you know, when you're dealing with 80 plus years of this going on. [0:45:45] Like how do you unwind that? [0:45:47] And how do you, I guess you do it through conversations [0:45:50] like this initially, to get enough people aware [0:45:53] of how big of a problem this is [0:45:54] and how bad it is for everybody. [0:45:56] For three generations and three is a $1. [0:46:00] There's so many people making so much money on this. [0:46:03] We think about, you probably won't be here in 80 years. [0:46:06] I know you're the specimen of health in your, you know, maybe so, but your kids will [0:46:12] be. [0:46:13] And so, you know, I didn't really focus on it until I became a mother. [0:46:17] And you have a son and a daughter and, you know, my sister has kids. [0:46:22] And it's like, all right, we can probably keep it in between the ditches. [0:46:25] I'm 37. [0:46:27] Maybe I'll make it to 75. [0:46:30] So we can probably keep it in between the ditches [0:46:33] until then. [0:46:34] But what type of world are we leaving our kids? [0:46:37] I mean, do you, your kids? [0:46:39] They're going to inherit something way the hell worse [0:46:43] than you did. [0:46:44] It's going to get worse. [0:46:45] It's not going gonna get better. [0:46:45] Way worse. [0:46:46] Right. [0:46:47] Unless enough people make this decision that you made. [0:46:52] Unless enough people take control of their health and start changing the way they eat and [0:46:57] where they source their food from and caring and the title of your book, a bold return to [0:47:03] giving it damn. [0:47:04] Which is a great title. One farm, six generations in the future of food. [0:47:08] When you set out to write this book, [0:47:12] I know that this is an important message to you, [0:47:16] but how has this been received so far? [0:47:20] You know, we don't get too much feedback on how many people were buying the book. [0:47:26] It's out there, but we don't get it. [0:47:28] Jenny, you can ask that question, but I mean she... [0:47:31] Ah, so, you know, when dad started talking about writing a book, [0:47:35] we were like, oh, there's no way. [0:47:37] You know, his brain is truly cyclical, just like the farm. [0:47:43] There's birth growth, death decay, birth growth, death decay. [0:47:47] Where do you start? [0:47:48] The chicken or the egg? [0:47:49] Who came first? [0:47:50] And for him, we had talked about him writing a book for a very long time, and honestly, [0:47:57] nobody knew where to start. [0:47:59] And so he was approached by some folks who said, hey, we think you'd be a great book writer. [0:48:08] And dad quickly told them there's no way I can write a book, no way in hell. [0:48:12] I don't know where to start and where to end. [0:48:14] So we'll let us help you. [0:48:15] So they found a ghost writer named Emily Grieven who is great. [0:48:21] And she and dad had phone dates every Friday for probably a year that lasted anywhere from two to four hours and [0:48:30] In listening to the book dad there dad narrated it and it is like a glimpse inside of his brain. It is such a [0:48:39] All of his thoughts are there and you know [0:48:42] I think it's so important because you know dad started a business and a mission that is gonna last a lot longer than him you [0:48:50] know he's 69 this year and you know the food system is not going to be fixed [0:48:55] you know by the time he is gone and so to be part of that and to be part of a [0:49:01] business that's you know bigger than one person bigger than one person's life [0:49:05] that lasts you know lasts so much longer. [0:49:07] I think it's so important and people like him [0:49:09] have got to focus on that. [0:49:11] He can't fix the food system. [0:49:12] He has to set the groundwork for people like you and I [0:49:16] to fix the food system and then to instill it in our children [0:49:19] to fix the food system. [0:49:21] What was the motivation to write this? [0:49:25] I felt like people needed to know [0:49:27] what I spent the last 25 years learning. I'm not the only one that knows it, but I'm [0:49:34] the only one that has this particular slant on it. I knew I couldn't write a book. You [0:49:39] know, I went to the University of Georgia and majored in agriculture. [0:49:46] We didn't read many books. [0:49:47] We certainly didn't write a book. [0:49:50] When they approached us about writing it, it just seemed like the thing to do. [0:49:57] And I give so much credit to this, namely, Graven, that Jenny reference who wrote it. [0:50:01] Do we actually wrote my fault sign on the paper. [0:50:08] And the, the things of one time deal? [0:50:10] Are you going to read my books? [0:50:11] I know, down with it. [0:50:13] It took me six to nine years to look real nice shit to put in that book. [0:50:18] I'm not going to have time. [0:50:22] It seems like another book though someone should write is how this can be fixed. [0:50:28] And what steps need to be taken. [0:50:30] And I think it needs to be taken for sure. [0:50:33] It needs to be taken at a governmental level. [0:50:35] There's a bunch of books out there that I've seen that for farmers have written that I [0:50:42] didn't agree with. [0:50:43] There's one dirt to soil by Gabe, but brown is great. [0:50:47] So, you know, they're all those. [0:50:50] So, if someone is out there that does run an industrial farm and is sort of tortured by it, [0:50:57] they're aware of the consequences of what they're doing and they would like to maybe, [0:51:02] and they may be admire what you've done. Like to move in that direction. [0:51:05] Well, not, since you mentioned it, Gabe and I [0:51:09] or both were both in about the same age, [0:51:12] were both industrial farmers that went this route [0:51:17] and there's some great regenerative farmers out there. [0:51:22] But they are a tremendous number of them [0:51:23] that used to be an industrial [0:51:26] farmer. It's just not a lot of that. How many industrial farms are there in this country? [0:51:33] I have no idea a lot. I mean a lot of it used to be because they've consolidated and [0:51:38] gotten so much bigger, but I don't know that number. [0:51:43] Well you were originally brought onto that Fox News Show because they were [0:51:47] they were trying to figure out what a farmer thinks about Bill Gates buying up farmland. [0:51:52] You know Bill Gates, who's famously said that everyone's got to stop being meat and eat. [0:51:56] He's bullshit fake meat versions. He's plant-based meats. So there's 25,000 factory farms. [0:52:06] Factory farms continue to take over the agricultural landscape [0:52:08] of the United States at currently 1.6 billion animals [0:52:11] in our nation's 25,000 factory farms. [0:52:15] Which makes sense. [0:52:16] I mean, if you just go to our base, where's our food color from? [0:52:19] Well, and even so, Jamie, you should Google this. [0:52:24] But when we talk about that, [0:52:26] the centralization of the meat industry is even more stark. [0:52:30] So what is it? [0:52:31] Four, maybe four meat processors, [0:52:37] and at least with beef occupy over 80% [0:52:41] of the nation's beef supply. [0:52:44] Four. [0:52:44] The chin it just gave me this for a came in here, but this is in 2023. [0:52:51] The United States is imported 956 million pounds of beef so far in 2023. [0:53:00] Wow. [0:53:01] That's imported beef. [0:53:02] Wow. [0:53:03] That's crazy. [0:53:04] Jamie, we pull up that. [0:53:06] I think I named it like food consolidation or something. [0:53:10] I bet most people have no idea. [0:53:12] I bet most people listen to this or blown away by that number. [0:53:15] If you ask the average person on the street, [0:53:18] how much meat do you think is imported from other countries? [0:53:22] Beef. [0:53:23] They would probably say, well, none. [0:53:27] They probably wouldn't even think of it. [0:53:30] Especially if you get to label it a product of the USA, [0:53:33] which is so dirty. [0:53:36] Yeah, and that's consumers believe they have [0:53:40] the impression of choice. [0:53:41] They don't actually have choice. [0:53:43] The image that Jamie's going to show us. [0:53:45] I'm trying to find a cleaner one. Oh good. Yep. [0:53:50] So look at all these brands that are owned by this, you know, 10 or so [0:53:57] parent companies. It's crazy. So, you know, consumers have the impression that there is choice, but truly there is no choice. [0:54:07] The same is true with meat. [0:54:09] I think on Tyson's website it has, and I gave it to Jamie, but one in every five pounds [0:54:15] of meat that's consumed in America is a Tyson product. [0:54:19] Wow. [0:54:20] Wow. [0:54:21] So we talk about centralized food. [0:54:24] We talk about food security. [0:54:26] Do we really want a global food supply? [0:54:28] You know the answer is yes or no. [0:54:30] But with regards to fragility in food, think about COVID and the effects of what it did [0:54:38] to the grocery store. [0:54:39] There we go. [0:54:40] One in five pounds of chicken beef and pork in the U.S. is produced by Tyson Foods. [0:54:44] That's proudly registered on their website. [0:54:49] Yeah, there's another one that talks about how many animals they slaughter in a week, [0:54:53] and that's another just incredible number. [0:54:56] The other four pounds are produced by two or three other companies. [0:55:01] It's not like it was Tyson and everybody else. Right, right, right. [0:55:06] Will you pull up that other one, Jamie, because I want to draw a correlation between the scale of [0:55:13] this versus the scale of what farms like us do. No, there's one that says like 177,000 cattle or processed. [0:55:28] Anyways, I'll tell you a little bit about our model [0:55:30] and then we can compare it to that. [0:55:31] But so when dad decided to build the processing plan in 2007, [0:55:36] he built it to process 50 head of cattle a week. [0:55:40] And we got to that number and we were still [0:55:41] hemorrhaging money. [0:55:42] There was no way that was gonna work. [0:55:44] And so we made a few modifications primarily around refrigeration. [0:55:49] We dropped the chill time. [0:55:50] Yep, that's it. [0:55:52] So our processing plant, own farm processing plant, will process 25 head of cattle a day, [0:56:00] five days a week. [0:56:01] So it's 125 head a week. So it's 125 head a week compared to systems like this, which is also [0:56:07] on Tyson's website, 155,000 head of cattle are processed per week in only 14 [0:56:15] facilities. Wow. That's crazy. And you know, the further to the right you go, so [0:56:23] you know, poor, 470,000 pigs are slaughtered in a week [0:56:27] at only seven facilities. [0:56:31] 47 million chickens per week. [0:56:35] And I've been in those facilities, [0:56:37] and it's not pretty. [0:56:38] But that is the scale of food. [0:56:41] We've shown the footage of, [0:56:44] someone got drone footage [0:56:45] where they fly a drone over a pig farm [0:56:48] and industrialized pig farm, [0:56:50] and you see these lakes of pig waste, [0:56:53] and it's so disgusting. [0:56:55] It's just toxic waste. [0:56:57] Which is sad because that waste [0:56:59] is what created that topsoil at White Oak Prasters. [0:57:02] It's just, we took the livestock off of the land. [0:57:06] We decoupled what had been coupled for millions of years. [0:57:10] So these are these lakes. [0:57:11] Now here's the question. [0:57:12] Why can't they take that waste and redistribute it into the land [0:57:18] and use it for fertilizer? [0:57:19] And there's some of that, dude, but it's expensive. [0:57:23] That's the problem. [0:57:26] That's expensive. Is that what they're doing right here? [0:57:27] Yeah, I think so. [0:57:29] Yeah, I remember them talking about the waste [0:57:31] was getting spread on the people's houses. [0:57:33] Oh. [0:57:34] Because it would be in the air and then it would be [0:57:36] like, of course, forever. [0:57:37] Yeah. [0:57:39] Well, yeah, indiscriminate because they want to do it cheaply. Yeah, and there's a difference between a cow, a pig, a chicken, defecating, [0:57:47] here and there and there. [0:57:49] Right, in spring and natural way. [0:57:51] You know, that thick, obviously. [0:57:53] Right. [0:57:54] Well, and just to sort of tie all that together, [0:57:56] Jamie, you have one more thing, [0:57:58] and that's where I'm gonna quit asking you to pull shit up. [0:58:00] That's what he does. It's okay. He likes it. I have to apologize. He's probably like, who invited her? No, no, no. But there's one more that's like our brands. So one in five pounds of [0:58:13] meat, we just read that. It was produced, produced by Tyson. But consumers have no idea that [0:58:19] it was a Tyson product. So if you look at the amount of brands that you know these big multinational meat corporation zone [0:58:28] there's no [0:58:29] There's no [0:58:31] No way for a consumer to know that that's one of those products [0:58:36] So it's just it's just a really incredible system when you start pulling the layers back on it [0:58:44] and When you start pulling the layers back on it. [0:58:45] And there's demand. [0:58:47] That's the other problem. [0:58:48] It's like you're not going to get them to stop doing that. [0:58:50] There's a massive demand for all this food. [0:58:53] And most people listening to this are part of that demand. [0:58:57] Most people listening to this have stopped at a fast food burger place this week and picked [0:59:02] up a product of this system. [0:59:05] And they want to be able to do that. [0:59:07] If you're hungry and you're on the go and you want to be able to pull into a drive-through, [0:59:12] get a cheeseburger and some fries and a soda, bam. [0:59:14] It takes, it's kind of extraordinary. [0:59:16] The system they've created, it sucks that you can't do it in a healthy way, [0:59:19] but it's kind of extraordinary that you just pull into somewhat and get a thousand calories like that. It's so convenient. It's cheap. [0:59:25] Yeah, it's very cheap. [0:59:26] Incredibly cheap. [0:59:27] Yeah, for the amount of calories. [0:59:30] And that is also reflected in the health consequences of impoverished people. [0:59:35] If you look at people that are poor that rely upon this kind of food all the time, those [0:59:40] are the people that have the worst health outcomes. [0:59:42] Because they're eating stuff that doesn't have any nutrients [0:59:45] and it's terrible for you. [0:59:46] It's filled with seed oils, bullshit and preservatives. [0:59:49] And I'm sure you've seen those, [0:59:52] they've done these little tests [0:59:54] where they've taken a McDonald's cheeseburger [0:59:57] and just sit it on a shelf for like weeks [1:00:00] and nothing happens to it. [1:00:02] You could probably eat it, which is so insane. [1:00:05] That was crazy. [1:00:06] I mean, you could sit for weeks. [1:00:08] But you know, these companies, as bad as this is, [1:00:10] these companies have done what the public told them to do. [1:00:15] The public is saying we want food cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. [1:00:19] Right. [1:00:20] And quicker. [1:00:21] And you know how you get cheaper and quicker. [1:00:24] Okay, this is exactly the same after five years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah So Megan wants to find out whether the cheeseburger will stay the same after another five years. [1:00:45] So I bet it will. [1:00:48] I mean, what's going to change? [1:00:49] Five years since she's inspired to carry out the experiment after seeing an old burger [1:00:54] being showcased in her doctor's office. [1:00:56] And so she set this burger down and just left it out there for five years. [1:01:01] And that's what it looks like. [1:01:03] Hi Megan. [1:01:04] Kind of crazy, but also disturbing. years and that's what it looks like. Hi, Megan. [1:01:06] Kind of crazy, but also disturbing. [1:01:09] If you eat that, like what is that doing to your gut microbiome? [1:01:12] What is that doing to your health? [1:01:13] I mean, the preservatives have a consequence on your health. [1:01:17] The eating stuff that, you know, we were talking about dog food earlier. [1:01:21] And I feed my dog raw food. [1:01:23] And I just started feeding him raw food about six, seven months ago and it kind of it's embarrassing to me [1:01:29] That that's the case because I always just thought if you go to the pets I didn't think about it [1:01:33] You go to the pet store you buy healthy food [1:01:36] The best food that they have available to you know a nice pet store like this got to be good for the dog [1:01:41] Oh, look at all the nutrients look at all stuff But then I But then I was thinking, like, how is it just sitting there? [1:01:46] How can it, how does it not go bad? [1:01:49] How does it not, there's never mold on pet food. [1:01:52] There's the cheeseburger. [1:01:53] 20 years. [1:01:54] Oh my God, a Utah man. [1:01:56] 20, well there's your answer, Megan. [1:01:59] It doesn't even look like that one's been in the refrigerator. No, just sitting there. I don't think hers was either. This guy's just [1:02:05] hoarding cheeseburgers. This guy's got a 14-year-old cheeseburger. This is quite a [1:02:10] few of them. He just breaks it out every year for an update. Oh my god, that's [1:02:13] insane. That's insane. The pickle went bad. Yeah, the pickle went bad. Pickle kind of, [1:02:19] he's got it. He's got the receipt. That's incredible. How much was it? 79 cents. 79 cents. Not much more now, which is pretty shocking. [1:02:28] Yeah, but there's a consequence. [1:02:30] There's a consequence for all that. [1:02:32] What I was saying about my dog, he was getting fat [1:02:35] and we were lowering the amount of food that he was eating [1:02:37] because of that and increasing his exercise and he still. [1:02:41] Just, it just did, and then I was thinking, I wouldn wouldn't eat that why am I feeding him what I would eat and so I started feeding him [1:02:46] well I was feeding him elk meat so I'd get I'd shoot an elk and I take some of the ground meat and that's what I would use in his dog food [1:02:53] and I cut it up and boy he would just dive on that food I mean he couldn't get it in his mouth quick enough it just it was to him it was what he was supposed to be. Now when we switched over to what's, [1:03:06] it's, the stuff we're using right now, [1:03:08] there's a bunch of companies that do it really well [1:03:10] and they sell real food for dogs. [1:03:13] And it's frozen and it's cut up into cubes [1:03:15] and it's just basically raw meat and some vegetables [1:03:18] and some blueberries and stuff like that. [1:03:20] And it's changed everything, changed his coat, [1:03:23] his body slimmed down, he's got way more energy, his endurance when I throw the ball for him. [1:03:28] He's got way more energy. [1:03:30] It's incredible. [1:03:31] It's incredible. [1:03:32] But of course it is. [1:03:33] It just makes sense. [1:03:34] You think about the high instances of cancer in dogs. [1:03:37] And also the high instances of cancer in human beings that have been correlated to preservatives [1:03:43] and all sorts of environmental contaminants that are in human [1:03:46] beings diets. [1:03:47] It just makes sense that that would be in your especially since the vast majority of [1:03:51] dogs are being fed these processed preserved industrialized foods. [1:03:56] Yeah, here's another one too. [1:03:58] We brought Marshall some raw hods and I think he'll completely love it. [1:04:02] But, you know, there's another part of it. And so we became fast friends with a pet food manufacturer [1:04:10] in Atlanta, a whole dog market [1:04:12] who also coined farm hounds. [1:04:14] They're really, really great people. [1:04:16] But they told me about the fact that puppies chew. [1:04:20] And you hate your puppy because it [1:04:22] chews up all your shoves, your seat, your chair legs, your shoes, and whatever it is. [1:04:28] And you spank the puppy and they learn not to chew [1:04:33] and whatever else happens. [1:04:34] But truthfully chewing for dogs is soothing for them. [1:04:40] It's something that is calming, it relieves stress, [1:04:44] it's a natural behavior. [1:04:46] They're used to having to gnaw their food off of a carcass that they've run down or whatever [1:04:51] it else it is. [1:04:53] And so, you know, it is sad to think that we have turned dog food into something, you know, [1:05:00] little bites that can be gulfed down and we don't give dogs something to chew on. [1:05:05] And then they get in trouble for chewing on your shoes or chewing on your chair leg when that [1:05:10] is how animals evolved, you know, for thousands of years. Yeah, it's natural behavior. It's also [1:05:16] changed the way human beings jaws are. You know, the reason why human beings get crowded teeth and [1:05:22] smaller jaw bones is because we stop chewing on meat. And we stop chewing on food that's real food and we start eating mush. And when you do that over [1:05:32] generation and generation, the human body changes. Yeah, it's very bizarre. I brought you some gum [1:05:40] and it's from Turkey and it's called phalum. I don't know if I'm saying that right, but it's exactly for that. [1:05:47] And I have chewed it for probably a year and a half. [1:05:49] And it is the best stress dealing with mechanism [1:05:54] that I have. [1:05:55] It is, there's just something to be said for chewing. [1:05:58] Yeah, they sell that stuff. [1:06:00] I think it's called masticating gum. [1:06:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [1:06:03] That's good for your jaw. Boxers actually use that. [1:06:05] I'm not a boxer. [1:06:06] Shocking, and then. [1:06:07] If it's good for their jaw, their jaw muscles. [1:06:10] Yeah. [1:06:11] It's good for mine. [1:06:12] There's also a product called Jawsercise that I use. [1:06:14] It's a rubber thing that you put in your mind. [1:06:17] I do, I wait-lift with my jaw. I put this thing in my, in my teeth and I go like this. I do reps with my jaw. [1:06:26] Listen sort of video of you doing that on this. [1:06:29] It's made my jaw muscles bigger, 100%. [1:06:31] I was gonna say something about it. [1:06:33] I mean, you look, you're your jaws, they look good, man. [1:06:37] Thank you very much. [1:06:38] I'm very proud of my jaws. [1:06:39] But there's people that go crazy with it. [1:06:41] And there's like a community that online that of people that have like [1:06:46] overused their jaw muscles to the point where they develop these massive like bull [1:06:50] mastive jaw muscles on the side of their face. And it becomes like kind of a weird thing [1:06:56] like almost like anorexia or something like that. You know they get obsessed with jaw [1:07:00] muscles. That's disgusting. Yeah there's like. [1:07:02] There's like. [1:07:03] After photos of these people that have just developed these, [1:07:06] because they want a square jaw, right? [1:07:09] So in doing, that will give you a square jaw [1:07:11] because that's where it comes from. [1:07:12] It comes from this muscle right here, [1:07:14] this fat muscle right here. [1:07:16] And you could build that muscle just like you could build your biceps [1:07:20] or any other muscle and you build it from chewing. [1:07:22] And a lot of people are just eating mush. Like what do they want when they want to stay? [1:07:26] Go on, I want a tender steak. [1:07:27] Exactly right. [1:07:28] Yeah, it's one of the things people don't like about game meat is that it's chewy. [1:07:31] That's right. [1:07:32] Or grass-fed beef. [1:07:33] Right. [1:07:34] We did a tremendous amount of education for cooking grass-fed beef and for the first several years that we had our e-commerce online store, we had consumers call and say it's like shoe leather. It's so tough. [1:07:45] And you say, well, how did you cook it? [1:07:47] And you walk them through. [1:07:48] And that has really cut down as consumers [1:07:51] have become more familiar with it. [1:07:53] But the fact that it melts in your mouth, [1:07:55] me, it's not supposed to melt in your mouth. [1:07:57] No, it's not. [1:07:57] That's not the way that works. [1:07:58] Well, I'm not a big fan of Kobe beef. but when I look at like when they slice Kobe beef and you talk about how expensive it is because of all the marbling [1:08:06] I'm like that thing's dying like that is a sick animal that is a like a [1:08:12] severely morbidly obese human being if you took a slice out of them [1:08:16] It's gonna look like that just a deep just fat is everywhere it overcomes the food where you're you're eating it and you just [1:08:24] It like coats your mouth. [1:08:27] And some people like it, you know, in like small pieces, okay, whatever you want. [1:08:31] If that's what you're into, me, I like grass fed beef. [1:08:34] I like a dark rich rib eye steak where it looks like a dark red, like a cow is supposed [1:08:40] to look, like a bison steak. [1:08:42] If you eat a grass fed bison steak and you cut into it, that is a dark red. [1:08:46] And that's what you're supposed to eat. [1:08:48] That's nutrient dense. [1:08:49] It's better for you. [1:08:50] It's much higher in protein. [1:08:52] That's what I like about wild game. [1:08:54] When I'm eating wild game, I'm eating this animal [1:08:58] that is essentially eating and living the way it's lived [1:09:02] for thousands and thousands and thousands of years, with no input from human beings whatsoever. [1:09:07] And then there's some companies that do that, like Certified Piedmontese has a very specific [1:09:12] cow that's much higher in protein than other cows because it's leaner and it looks different, [1:09:18] it's darker, but you have to cook it differently. [1:09:21] And the way I cook it, and the way I tell people to cook game, is what's called a reverse [1:09:26] sear method. [1:09:27] So I cook it very slowly until I get it up to an internal temperature of like 120 degrees [1:09:32] or 115 degrees, and then I sear the outside of it to give it a nice crust, and it's tender [1:09:37] that way, and that way you get all the flavor of the meat, but it's not tender like Kobe [1:09:42] beef. It's still a little chewy, but it's flavorful, it's not tender like Kobe B for it's it's still a little chewy but it's [1:09:45] flavorful it's delicious and moist and it's great for you. [1:09:49] You know the life expectancy of a cow is like 24 years of age and a feed lot [1:09:54] animal wouldn't live much over two. Wow obesity disease. [1:09:59] Yeah tell them about the story about the presidential pardon. [1:10:03] Yeah I tell them that true, the way we raise cattle, [1:10:08] they'd lived to be 24 years old. [1:10:10] We don't do that, but that's what they would do. [1:10:13] And I've always wanted to take a feedlot animal [1:10:16] and give it a presidential pardon and say, [1:10:19] we're not going to slaughter you. [1:10:20] We're going to see how long you'll live. [1:10:22] And keep one in the feedlot. And in turn one loose I'll be in the pasture with my cows. [1:10:27] And I would, I can guarantee you the fully feedlot [1:10:32] animal wouldn't last, but maybe three years [1:10:36] or four years or five years. [1:10:38] Yeah, no one wants to do that [1:10:40] because if like you got one of your friends, [1:10:42] say, let me make you a deal. [1:10:44] Let's put a special tag on this cow, [1:10:46] put a little ear tag so nobody slaughters it, [1:10:48] and let's see what's up. [1:10:49] They'd be like, no thanks. [1:10:50] No. [1:10:51] What do you think, how long do you think it would last? [1:10:53] A feedlot animal. [1:10:55] You know, I've never done it. [1:10:56] I don't have a feedlot in it't be long because they are dying of all the diseases of obesity [1:11:09] and sedentary lifestyle that kills people. [1:11:12] Right. [1:11:13] They just, they wouldn't last long. [1:11:15] As well as eating food that they're not really supposed to be eating. [1:11:18] Like when you, people love a grain fed animal because it's obese. [1:11:22] That's really what they like when they look for a lot of marbling. [1:11:24] That's obesity. That's what you're getting and that's what makes it juicy and delicious. [1:11:28] But that's also what makes it sick. And that's also why they have to use so many antibiotics. [1:11:32] You know, I'm sure you've seen, there was a documentary, I forget what the documentary was, [1:11:39] but there was a documentary where they showed various cows and all these diseases [1:11:45] that these cows encounter because of eating that way. [1:11:49] And all the chemicals they have to use, [1:11:52] the antibiotics they have to use to treat these cows. [1:11:54] And the unintended consequences [1:11:56] those have on the consumer. [1:11:58] Well, your concern is antibiotic resistance [1:12:01] because we use those antibiotics on the pathogens that when they're not sick, [1:12:08] the cows are really not sick. It just makes them gain weight faster. [1:12:11] Antibiotics made a cow gain weight, found it. [1:12:13] Yeah, yeah. Sub there. [1:12:14] Okay. [1:12:15] That's the word, sub there. [1:12:16] How does it do that? [1:12:19] You know, it's got to do with the rumen, I don't know that, but it's got to do with that, [1:12:26] you know, a cow, the way they digest is there are microbes in the rumen, the gut that [1:12:35] breaks down the cellulose or grain. [1:12:40] And somehow that antibiotics enhances that procedure. [1:12:47] I don't know that. [1:12:48] It probably keeps them functioning while still eating in a natural diet. [1:12:56] Here it says, the damage caused by antibiotics depends upon on the mechanism of action dosage treatment duration and administration route. Anabiotics, given at low doses to animals, have the notable effect of increasing weight. [1:13:08] A practice term subtherapyutic antibiotic treatment and used since 1946 in livestock. [1:13:14] Wow. [1:13:15] You know, we only have a certain number of antibiotics. [1:13:20] And when we use them indiscriminately at very low levels, resistance, and pathogen spills up. [1:13:27] So we put us if at risk of losing these life-saving drugs that we depend on. [1:13:33] And then also the rise of MRSA. [1:13:35] You know, medication-resistant staff infections are huge in this country. [1:13:39] It's a giant issue when people get surgery or they get cuts. [1:13:43] And you know, in the Jiu-Jitsu community, it's a giant issue when people get surgery or they get cuts. And, you know, in the Jiu-Jitsu community, it's a giant issue. [1:13:47] And I have several friends that have gone through lengthy hospital stays because they [1:13:52] develop staff infection that didn't respond to antibiotics and it got systemic. [1:13:58] And it's life threatening and people have died from it. [1:14:00] It's something very scary because they're pumping you full of antibiotics intravenously and it's not working. The antibiotics are not killing this [1:14:09] bacteria and this bacteria is consuming the person. Scary, scary stuff. We're [1:14:15] playing around with nature itself and we're playing around with nature [1:14:19] itself essentially just for profit. Well and unknowingly you know I mean we don't [1:14:24] we don't know what the effects of this stuff is going to be, [1:14:27] but for short-term profits, that's one of the major differences between businesses like [1:14:34] ours and corporations. [1:14:37] Corporations are so steadily focused on quarterly reports and profits and whatever else. And there have been so many decisions. [1:14:46] In fact, all of the big decisions recently, certainly, [1:14:50] that when we get together, my wife, my sister, my brother-in-law, [1:14:56] my dad, and he says, do you want to buy this land? [1:14:59] I'll die before it's paid off. [1:15:01] Is this something y'all want to do? [1:15:03] And he abstains from the vote, [1:15:05] and my sister, my wife, my brother and I, [1:15:08] we all decide if that's something we can or can't swing. [1:15:13] And so businesses run like that for the longevity [1:15:18] versus businesses for short-term profit [1:15:22] have completely different motivations. [1:15:25] Yeah, and we're seeing the health consequences of that with other things as well. [1:15:29] I was watching this video the other day where this gentleman was talking about farm-raised [1:15:33] salmon being one of the most toxic things that you can consume, which is so wild. [1:15:39] If you think about salmon, salmon is just immediately associated with health. [1:15:45] Like oh, guys eat in salmon. [1:15:46] Must care better. [1:15:47] Unless you're pregnant or... [1:15:48] Right, right, right. [1:15:50] But people think about salmon as being one of the healthiest things. [1:15:53] And so this guy holds open this filet of salmon. [1:15:56] So you can find a video on it, Jamie. [1:15:58] This guy takes this filet of salmon and it's a fresh piece of salmon and he opens it up and he's like, look at how easily these bones [1:16:07] separate from the flesh and the color of the flesh is very different, which is one [1:16:12] of the reasons why they have to use dye. [1:16:15] When you see a tharm-ray salmon, it's a dark red color. [1:16:19] A lot of times what you're getting is people putting food coloring on the salmon itself [1:16:25] in order to make it that color. [1:16:27] Which is great because if you get a wild salmon, [1:16:29] it's from the insects that they consume [1:16:31] that turns their flesh that color. [1:16:33] That's crazy to me. [1:16:34] When I listened to your episode with RFK [1:16:36] and he was talking about the mercury levels and fish, [1:16:39] I mean, I was not a huge fish eater to begin with, [1:16:42] but after that I was like, whoa, this is incredible. Yes, it's pretty wild. [1:16:46] The farm raised salmon thing is really crazy because people just don't associate salmon [1:16:52] at all with being something that's not good for you. [1:16:55] Or food. [1:16:56] Right. [1:16:57] I mean why should consumers have to second guess the nutritional density of food. Because I've been in the confinement animal business [1:17:07] with cattle and other species, [1:17:10] this thing about the fish doesn't surprise me a bit. [1:17:13] It's, when you raise an animal as a multicultural, [1:17:18] they're going to be problems with it. [1:17:20] It's just as simple as that. [1:17:22] You're going against nature. [1:17:23] And you're pissing on youres to try to stay warm. [1:17:26] This is a deep, deep fine video of the farm raise, Amin. [1:17:31] There are a lot of it. [1:17:33] I think I found what you were just talking about just. [1:17:35] Because it's disturbing to all the solidino probably. [1:17:37] Yeah, he just put one up on social media, Paul Dinn. [1:17:40] Yeah. [1:17:42] So give me some volume on this GMO corn GMO soy food and medications to prevent [1:17:48] overgrowth bacterial infections because it's so unhealthy all fish is going to [1:17:52] accumulate some heavy metals which is not a good thing but wild salmon is a [1:17:55] much better choice than any Atlantic salmon all Atlantic salmon is going to be [1:17:59] farm raised and we know that these chemicals PCBs PVDs are endocrine [1:18:03] disruptors yes it's an animal food. [1:18:05] It's not a plant food. [1:18:06] But this is one of my least favorite dishes. [1:18:08] Yeah, he doesn't bring it down. [1:18:10] But his one gentleman takes a filet. [1:18:13] He takes a fresh filet and opens it up for you to see it. [1:18:17] And he shows how this tissue is essentially just weak and soft. [1:18:22] And it's just not the same. [1:18:25] I guess just doesn't surprise me. [1:18:28] You know the echo systems are meant to be different species [1:18:33] operating in symbiotic relationships with each other. [1:18:37] And I don't care if it's cows or hives or similes or [1:18:40] mule, it doesn't matter. When you raise it in a monoculture, [1:18:44] problems will occur. [1:18:47] You fight nature. [1:18:48] It's inevitable. [1:18:48] You fight nature the whole time. [1:18:50] Yeah, that's just every reason for it not to work well. [1:18:56] Yeah, and it seems like the whole movement of this happening [1:19:00] has happened for so long. [1:19:02] And we're just sort of getting aware of it now. [1:19:05] I mean, I've just been aware of it now. I mean I've just [1:19:06] been aware of it over the last few years, the last decade or so, but most people aren't [1:19:10] even aware of it at all. You think of the vast majority of Americans hearing this, you're [1:19:14] just going, what? What's going on? Like this is, now I have to pay attention to this too. [1:19:20] And what do I do? But you think about all the ecosystems that exist on the earth, from tundra to desert [1:19:28] to rainforest to alpine, onanone. [1:19:33] There's not a monoculture anywhere. [1:19:35] I don't believe you can find one anywhere. [1:19:37] Everywhere there are plants and animals and microbes living in symbiotic relationships [1:19:42] with each other. [1:19:44] And that's when you's, that's, [1:19:45] when you step away from that, [1:19:47] which is what we've done in industrial farming, [1:19:50] with its plants or animals, [1:19:52] with its peanuts or hogs, [1:19:56] you're fighting nature, [1:19:58] every step of the way. [1:20:00] And the only, [1:20:02] the tools we use to fight nature [1:20:05] all have unintended consequence. [1:20:10] And we have to take another tool [1:20:12] to fight that unintended consequence. [1:20:14] And another, and another. [1:20:16] Similar to what she was talking about [1:20:17] with medical interventions. [1:20:19] The saying, I was gonna start to say that, [1:20:21] you know, what she described, but the medical, [1:20:24] is exactly what we've done in food production. [1:20:27] What one expensive technological tool that we pay money for that fixes a problem, but [1:20:37] creates another problem that requires another expensive technical tool, another, I don't [1:20:44] know, and there's no way into it. [1:20:47] One thing that I'll say is that it has been so interesting to watch nature balance itself. [1:20:54] The best example that we have of that is that we evolved as cattle people. [1:21:00] The first generation had multi-species and continued, and then we became a modiculture of cattle. [1:21:06] And around 2012, we started diversifying again. [1:21:11] The first non-catal species that we introduced [1:21:14] at White Oak Pastures was poultry. [1:21:16] And we got good at raising them. [1:21:20] And the way we insisted on raising poultry, [1:21:23] like all the rest of the species, [1:21:24] is in an environment [1:21:26] where they can express their instinctive behavior. [1:21:28] So cattle were meant to roam in grays, hogs were meant to root and wallow chickens were [1:21:32] meant to peck and scratch. [1:21:35] So our chickens were outside, unconfined, unrestricted, you know, they could walk to Atlanta [1:21:42] if they wanted to. And shortly after we turned the chickens loose [1:21:49] out on pasture, we noticed maybe around 2013 [1:21:54] a few bald eagles settled in. [1:21:57] And that's, oh come look, this is awesome. [1:22:00] You know, mating pair. [1:22:02] It was really neat. [1:22:03] We were proud of them. How American can you be? [1:22:08] I mean, this is great. And then their migratory birds that they left and the next year, [1:22:13] there were probably eight or something. And it was like, man, that's really cool. [1:22:19] They went and had such a great time here. They told their friends and brought more back. This is great. [1:22:25] And then eight left, they migrated away, and 20 came. [1:22:30] And the next year, even more. [1:22:32] And I think at one point, there were single sightings, [1:22:37] 84 bald eagles at White Oak Pastures at one time. [1:22:41] Whereas historically, we had never had any bald eagles. [1:22:43] I mean, I went 30 something years, never seen a bald eagle. But then, in a very short amount of time, whereas historically we had never had any bald eagles. I mean, I went 30 something years, never seen a bald eagle, but then in a very short amount of time there were 80 something, [1:22:51] and they put us near about out of the pastured poultry business, but that is just a prime example [1:22:57] of how nature will balance itself. [1:22:59] Yes. How did you mitigate the effects of the bald eagles? A brilliant poultry manager that we had came up with a plan to put the, so we use guardian [1:23:11] dogs. [1:23:12] And the guardian dogs were out there loose with the birds, but they're nocturnal. [1:23:20] The dogs are protecting the chickens from nocturnal cruddusters and the dogs from nocturnal predators [1:23:25] and the dogs are nocturnal, so they're working their butts off [1:23:28] from sundown to sunrise. [1:23:30] For coyotes and coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, possum skunks, [1:23:35] but when the sun would come up, the dogs would go to the woods [1:23:41] and bathe down, and it was fine. [1:23:43] But the e Eagles were daytime [1:23:45] predators. We hadn't had that before. So they were eating us up. And actually I [1:23:51] mentioned that to you. Well the last time I was on and I told you that we were [1:23:57] at odds with the government about a payment. A reimbursement for livestock identity program. [1:24:05] LIP, livestock identity program. [1:24:08] And they wouldn't pay us. [1:24:11] And we... [1:24:13] For the damages caused by protected species. [1:24:16] Right. [1:24:17] So that's specifically... [1:24:18] The birds were killed by a raccoon or a possum or dog. [1:24:23] They wouldn't but a protected species like a cougar or a wolf or eagle. [1:24:29] You know I'm not allowed to protect my birds so they pay. [1:24:33] We spent a lot of money but we collected our payment [1:24:38] since I saw you last. Well that's good news. But is there a mitigation effort [1:24:43] that you could do daytime that's natural to try to keep [1:24:46] the people going? Well, we put the dogs in with the birds in the fencing. The dogs kept the [1:24:52] Eagles at bay. Not we don't get zero predation but it's limited predation. And I don't want [1:24:59] zero predation. I like seeing those bald eagles. I still want to see 80. That calls it nature's tithe. [1:25:05] Tithing to nature. [1:25:07] That's a good way of putting it. [1:25:08] I like it. [1:25:09] There's one. [1:25:10] Steal the chicken. [1:25:11] Yeah. [1:25:11] They're beautiful birds. [1:25:13] It's kind of creepy though that the American animal [1:25:16] is just such a vicious raptor. [1:25:18] Just not so wild. [1:25:19] They were cute. So as I say it, a needle kitten, a nigga kicking a chicken and eating it or two or three is fine. [1:25:26] They were killed, dozens and dozens and dozens and not eat them. [1:25:30] It was a sporting event to prove hierarchy. [1:25:33] So it was like, if I want to be at the top of the food chain, I kill more and more and [1:25:39] more. [1:25:40] I kid you not out of forerunner and I got up and got in my car to go to work. [1:25:48] And you crank up your car and then you look up and there was the back end, the two feet [1:25:53] and tail of a chicken on my car. [1:25:58] And there was not chickens anywhere, probably within a mile of my house where I park. [1:26:05] So it was a bloody mess. [1:26:08] Well, they have that same problem with wolves, [1:26:10] surplus killing. [1:26:11] That wolves will just have fun and just kill 18, 19 elk. [1:26:17] There was an instance in Wyoming where there's just, [1:26:20] it was like 18 or 19 cows that had been slaughtered by wolves [1:26:24] and they just left them there. [1:26:25] Because that's what they do. [1:26:26] And when it's rare for them to get a chance [1:26:29] to kill some elk, especially when they reintroduce wolves [1:26:32] and the elk haven't been accustomed to them [1:26:34] and now the wolves are there. [1:26:36] And the cows in the bulls don't exactly know what to do [1:26:40] because they haven't encountered wolves before. [1:26:41] And they just ran right through them. They dropped the population in Yellowstone significantly, [1:26:48] which is where they initially introduced them. [1:26:50] But now there was an article today [1:26:52] that I was reading about them in California [1:26:54] that they're seeing them and they're migrating into California. [1:26:58] And some of them being released in California [1:27:00] by these wacky wildlife groups. [1:27:04] Like I showed one that was in Central California [1:27:06] is near Bakersfield, the Sloan Wolf. [1:27:09] It was in a cow pasture that a friend of mine had filmed. [1:27:11] It's beautiful, big black wolf by himself [1:27:14] that most likely was brought there by somebody. [1:27:17] Nature ain't canned and nature ain't cruel. [1:27:20] She showed beautiful. [1:27:22] Yeah, it's beautiful, but it is what it is. [1:27:25] That's one of the issues I think that some people focus on with agriculture in general [1:27:32] is that they have these expectations that it is kind, or it is Walt Disney World, or it [1:27:37] is beautiful. [1:27:38] We had a situation where we were, we were kidding, so our goats were, you know, kidding, [1:27:44] and we were, we were co-grazing a paddock. [1:27:47] So there were hogs in with goats. [1:27:50] And what it was the wire called, the bob or the fish. [1:27:54] Page wire. [1:27:55] Page wire. [1:27:56] And a goat got her head stuck. [1:27:58] This is terrible. [1:27:59] I can't believe I'm saying it. [1:28:00] The pigs ate the kid. [1:28:02] So she had a kid and the hog smelled the blood. [1:28:07] They came. [1:28:08] They ate the baby goats. [1:28:11] And as sad as it was, that is nature. [1:28:14] Now we don't kid with pigs anymore, but we learned our lesson. [1:28:19] New, new, new, new, starting right now. [1:28:20] We ain't gonna do that no more. [1:28:21] Yeah. [1:28:22] What makes sense? [1:28:23] It's incredible. [1:28:24] Pigs lead everything. in a moment. Yeah, what makes sense? It's incredible. Pigs lead everything. [1:28:25] Yeah. [1:28:26] Anything and everything. [1:28:27] Yeah. [1:28:28] Do you have an issue with pigs getting loose and coming wild? [1:28:31] And do your pigs look wild? [1:28:33] Because pigs are one of the weird animals that [1:28:35] is they're not domesticated. [1:28:36] It's like when people see a domesticated pig like babe, [1:28:40] right? [1:28:41] Like they think of that's what pigs are like. Pigs are one of the strangest animals [1:28:45] because when you release them into the wild [1:28:47] within a month or so, they start to metamorphosize. [1:28:50] They do. [1:28:51] They absolutely do. [1:28:52] They get the tissues longer snouts and ticker fur. [1:28:58] I have no idea how they do that. [1:29:00] It's crazy. [1:29:01] It's incredible. [1:29:02] But yes, we've had that. [1:29:05] I wonder if that happens with people too. [1:29:07] You know, just think about wild people. [1:29:10] Kids going feral? [1:29:11] Well, it was humans. [1:29:12] If humans had to live in a wild, I mean, [1:29:15] I think there's certain amount of wild instincts [1:29:17] that humans have that are suppressed [1:29:18] by modern society. [1:29:20] And rightly so. [1:29:21] I mean, you want to live in a city, you have to suppress some of the natural instincts [1:29:25] of predatory human beings. [1:29:27] And you know, yeah, wild dogs. [1:29:29] Yeah, they don't behave differently. [1:29:31] But they don't look different to me. [1:29:33] Right, that's the point. [1:29:34] We've had cattle that got away. [1:29:37] They didn't look any different to me. [1:29:40] Right. [1:29:40] But somehow hogs just change. [1:29:43] Yeah, they change their actual physical features. [1:29:46] Morph. [1:29:46] Yeah, when people think of wild boars, [1:29:49] they think that that's a different species and it's not. [1:29:52] And that's what's really wild. [1:29:53] It's one genus, it's sous-scroffa. [1:29:55] It's the same thing, which is so bizarre. [1:29:58] That's bizarre. [1:29:59] Yeah. [1:30:00] You know, I went pig hunting recently in California and this place that I go, there's a lot of them. [1:30:05] And the pig that I shot doesn't look anything [1:30:08] like a pig that you would see in a farm. [1:30:11] Not at all. [1:30:12] It's just dark hairy thing with a long nose [1:30:15] and big tusks and it's a big sucker. [1:30:17] That's what we do. [1:30:18] So you know, a guy's in Austin going sip cocktails [1:30:21] at some of these neon light bars downtown. The guys in Bluffton, they go hog hunting. [1:30:27] And some of the shit that they overturn, [1:30:29] I mean, their hogs big as this table. [1:30:31] I mean, it's incredible. [1:30:33] Yeah. [1:30:33] Different breeds have different characteristics. [1:30:36] It's a Gloucester Old Spot. [1:30:38] This tan hog with black spots all over it. [1:30:43] There's a hump, sure, this black hog's got a white band across [1:30:46] the shoulders. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, much of them. But when they go wild, they get [1:30:52] that elongated snout, but of course the color doesn't change. It's incredible how that [1:30:59] works. That is incredible. It's a strange animal. Yeah. Yeah, it's a very bizarre animal that [1:31:03] we domesticated. The fact that [1:31:05] it does that because I don't know of any other animal that morphs so quickly. Do you eat pork? [1:31:10] Yeah. You do eat pork. It's delicious. Yeah, it's delicious. I like wild pork too. [1:31:14] But obviously wild pork comes with the the worry of trickinosis and all sorts of other things [1:31:21] that they get. Just got to cook it. It doesn't worry me. Yeah, you just gotta cook it. [1:31:26] Yeah, you just gotta make sure that it's the right temperature. [1:31:28] You know, you said something that was interesting [1:31:30] that I can speak to and you know, [1:31:34] something inside of you that won't [1:31:36] to experience nature. [1:31:37] You know, it's just something that's just [1:31:38] out of the stick, you know, about watching nature. And we have a lot of people visit white oak pastures every year. And [1:31:46] one of the things that they love the most are our big cattle moves. We've got how many [1:31:53] breeding mommas? That big hurls of flowers in head. And then so a thousand head. And we [1:31:59] move them in the growing season every single day. I saved a video that Jamie can play or not play it doesn't matter. [1:32:06] But customers, people, anybody loves to take a step back into time and into something that's just so, [1:32:17] it just awakens your soul. Look at all those cows. Wow. All right, it's not just newcomers. I've been doing it for 60 something years, and I love watching the cattle move. [1:32:28] Yeah. [1:32:28] Oh, look at that. [1:32:31] Pretty cool. [1:32:32] They have not been in confinement. [1:32:34] They're coming out of a big pasture [1:32:36] to go into a big pasture. [1:32:39] But they know it. [1:32:40] But they had eaten it down. [1:32:41] It was time for them to rotate. [1:32:44] This is Scott, cowboy. Well, there's time for them to rotate. Scott, cowboy. [1:32:46] With his two working dogs. [1:32:48] And it seems like instinctively they know this. [1:32:50] And the dogs obviously are moving them along, but they know exactly where they're going. [1:32:57] The dogs, the dogs in the guy are really just to encourage the ones that don't feel good [1:33:03] that day. [1:33:04] Somebody's got a hurt foot to go through. [1:33:08] And now into this new pasture. [1:33:09] Wow. [1:33:10] That's wild. [1:33:10] The next one's really great. [1:33:12] The tunnel is under the four lane road that [1:33:14] goes through our farms. [1:33:16] Wow. [1:33:17] That's pretty cool. [1:33:18] I think on this next scene is sort of like the, [1:33:22] it's the big area we get. [1:33:25] Wow. That looks like Buffalo. [1:33:27] That's crazy. Look at all those cows. [1:33:29] That is wild. [1:33:30] But they do that every day. [1:33:32] And and people look, I love to say he loves to see it. [1:33:36] He sees it every day. [1:33:36] But it there just there is there's something inside of you that [1:33:40] wants to be a part of that system. [1:33:42] You go to a, you know, to a CAFO, to a confinement situation, [1:33:45] if you ever been to a, you know, feed lot of confinement. [1:33:50] To confinement, animal feeding operations, CAFO. [1:33:52] Jamie, Jamie, you can Google it. [1:33:53] Not up close. [1:33:54] Jamie, will you Google a CAFO? [1:33:56] And there's nothing about that that makes you want to watch it. [1:34:01] Mm-hmm. [1:34:01] It's so starkly different. It's like seeing people in prison. [1:34:05] Yeah, you're watching. [1:34:07] Well, I was going to say that about pigs. [1:34:08] I've seen industrialized pig farms [1:34:10] and where they're all confined to these very small cages. [1:34:12] It's terrible. [1:34:13] It's very disturbing. [1:34:15] And it's also, I mean, that's where disease gets. [1:34:17] I mean, that's what human beings encountered [1:34:19] in, you know, when there was poor hygiene [1:34:21] and no sanitation in the United States. Those are the rise of a lot of plagues. [1:34:27] You see a calf, a calf, a calf, like that. [1:34:29] They're probably feeding sub therapeutic levels of antibiotics in the feed to keep them [1:34:35] from getting sick. [1:34:36] Look how many of them there are. [1:34:39] And if you want to make Donald's cheeseburger, that's what it is. [1:34:44] It's just so interesting because you know people don't [1:34:47] associate they say cows, cows, a cow, cows are ruining the planet, cow, cow, cow. [1:34:52] There's there are no correlations between these two systems that are the same. I [1:34:57] mean they're no. It's completely different. And will they talk about cows causing a psychological change? [1:35:07] I agree in that scenario. [1:35:10] Yes. So different to you? [1:35:11] It's a totally different deal. [1:35:13] I would challenge anybody to look at that video that you just posted and not say, [1:35:16] oh, that looks normal. [1:35:18] The video that you showed looks normal when they're running through the field, [1:35:21] green grass, the cows are all rolling around eating grass. [1:35:24] They're supposed to do. And they don't need some therapeutic antibiotics. Right. They're running through the field, green grass, the cows are all rolling around eating the grass. They're supposed to do. [1:35:25] And they don't need some therapeutic antibiotics. [1:35:28] Right. [1:35:29] They're fine. [1:35:30] But you're also getting a lower yield. [1:35:31] Yes. [1:35:32] Yeah. [1:35:33] And it takes longer. [1:35:34] Yeah. [1:35:35] I think an animal that we would slaughter weighs about a thousand pounds and takes us like [1:35:38] 36 months to get it there. [1:35:40] A commodity animal would weigh 1,600 pounds? [1:35:43] Up to 1,600 pounds and would take how long? [1:35:47] A list of two years. [1:35:50] So, I mean... [1:35:52] Yeah, a lot of difference in yield. [1:35:54] A lot of difference in yield. [1:35:55] A lot of difference in the volume and the amount of time. [1:35:57] A culls per pound. [1:35:58] Yeah. [1:35:59] Make sense. [1:36:01] Whew. [1:36:02] How many people have reached out to you? [1:36:05] Have a lot of people reached out to you? [1:36:05] Have a lot of people reached out to you? [1:36:07] After you've gone public with all this stuff and become sort of a higher profile and wanted [1:36:12] help and trying to figure out how they could do that for themselves? [1:36:15] Yeah, we formed a non-profit FIBA 1C3 C4, Center IV agricultural. [1:36:24] Resilience. [1:36:25] Resilience. [1:36:25] Resilience, that's the word. [1:36:26] And we're training people. [1:36:29] We have an internship program that's, [1:36:32] we take six or eight per quad or four times a year, [1:36:35] we get 20-something applications. [1:36:37] We can't train everybody. [1:36:39] We're not set up for that. [1:36:42] We are aga. [1:36:43] We are increasing our capacity. [1:36:48] But it's not going to be a college. [1:36:51] It's just going to be a farm. [1:36:53] But we do want to be generous and share what we've learned with other people. [1:36:59] It's just, boy, it's beautiful what you guys do. [1:37:04] It really is. [1:37:05] And I think for a lot of people [1:37:06] It's very satisfying to see and it seems very natural and very normal and it seems like the right way to go [1:37:12] but [1:37:14] For the vast majority of people that are getting their food [1:37:17] This is not going to be an option [1:37:19] With what's currently [1:37:21] Required to feed 300 plus million people? [1:37:26] Well, it's highly replicatable. [1:37:30] And I don't say what you're saying, [1:37:32] but all these things that are going wrong [1:37:35] with the big industrial production, [1:37:38] that has problems too. [1:37:39] Yes, I don't know. [1:37:41] The price is probably a lot closer per pound [1:37:44] when you take in the external cost than industrial [1:37:47] agriculture takes outside of the cost of producing food. [1:37:52] That's not at the per pound price on the label. [1:37:55] It would take someone a lot smarter than you or I to figure out how to scale that and [1:38:00] how to make that available for everyone and how to encourage people to do that. [1:38:04] I don't think you're, I mean, [1:38:06] I think the only way to encourage industrial farms [1:38:08] to change is financially. [1:38:11] Yeah, there has to be some sort of a, [1:38:13] like they have to be responsible [1:38:15] for this damage that they're doing. [1:38:16] They have to be responsible. [1:38:18] And then also the health consequences. [1:38:20] If someone starts saying, hey, you know, [1:38:23] what you're doing to these animals is having a direct effect on the human beings that consume them and you're responsible for that. [1:38:29] If there's a change, it will be a consumer-led change. [1:38:32] That's the only way it's going to happen. [1:38:33] So it'll be a, it'll have to be a change of people voting with their money. [1:38:38] There's no other way that's going to happen. [1:38:40] Yeah. And it's going to have to get really bad before that occurs on a whole soil basis. [1:38:45] And what scares me is that that's when opportunists and people that have a lot of money and influence [1:38:51] and people that are in positions of power are going to try to encourage people to do something else [1:38:55] instead that's profitable. [1:38:57] And they're going to try to blame cattle instead of blaming monocrop agriculture. [1:39:03] And they're going to try to force people to eat plant-based meat, which is really been interesting [1:39:08] to me because that's one of the instances [1:39:10] where people have voted with their dollar. [1:39:12] Because when they first started introducing things [1:39:15] like beyond meat or impossible meat [1:39:17] or whatever the fuck it's called, [1:39:18] when they started doing that stuff, [1:39:21] initially a lot of people are like, [1:39:22] oh, this is great, until people just tried it. Like, oh my god, this is terrible. [1:39:25] And then when people saw studies, [1:39:27] it shows that it gives rats cancer. [1:39:28] They're like rats. [1:39:30] Like rats eat rats. [1:39:31] What's he gonna do to me? [1:39:32] Yeah, what is he gonna do to me? [1:39:33] And so the stock on those things has dropped off substantially. [1:39:37] And because of that, there's not getting it and people are not buying it. [1:39:47] And some people are buying it, but it's just a very, very small, [1:39:51] in terms of like what they thought it was going to be versus what it is now. [1:39:54] And so now the new thing is 3D printed meat. [1:39:58] Or cell grown meat. [1:39:59] Yeah, cell grown meat, which is essentially the same thing. I think because they're're taking that cell-grown meat and then they're using 3D printers to try to replicate an artificially created ribeye [1:40:08] that's bizarre. [1:40:09] And what are the health consequences of that? [1:40:11] Who knows what, what, you know, what does that do for you? [1:40:15] I have no probing and I'm not economically threatened [1:40:20] by this kind of technology meat. [1:40:27] I don't have a very big customer base and they're not going to swing from where I am. [1:40:31] Right. [1:40:32] Way over there. [1:40:33] Right. [1:40:34] And of course, I think that the entities that are threatened by this [1:40:39] high-tech meat is the big meat companies [1:40:43] that are industrially producing meat. [1:40:46] And evidence of that is a lot of them have invested in that. [1:40:50] Yeah, no, I think they are. [1:40:52] And I think they do realize that the plant-based meat is a bust. [1:40:57] And also, more and more people are becoming aware of the health consequences of industrial [1:41:03] seed oils. [1:41:05] And how many of these industrial seed oils [1:41:06] are used in the processing and creation [1:41:08] of these artificial plant-based meats. [1:41:11] And you know, these things cause inflammation, [1:41:14] they cause a host of health problems [1:41:16] in people's bodies. [1:41:18] Yeah, his mother grew up cooking everything in large [1:41:21] and then when Chrisco came along, [1:41:23] that was like the thing. [1:41:26] You know, like these vegetable oils, these canola oils, sunflower oil, [1:41:32] it was like this very stark change. And one thing that has been interesting [1:41:38] for me is that, you know, in the last 24 months, our suet fat and pork lard is one of the fastest moving items that [1:41:49] we sell is because people refuse to cook in canola oil and peanut oil and whatever. [1:41:55] And you finally became aware. [1:41:57] It used to be a disposal problem. [1:41:59] That's right. [1:42:00] We put in a bio diesel. [1:42:03] Yeah. [1:42:04] A bio diesel converter. [1:42:06] You know, most of the stuff that we have that's waste, [1:42:10] we can compost. [1:42:12] Compose fat does not compost goodwill. [1:42:16] So we spent a lot of money on a bio diesel converter [1:42:20] that didn't work worth a day. [1:42:22] So the idea was to convert fat into diesel? [1:42:25] Yeah, and we did. We just didn't [1:42:27] just. The yield was terrible. It's hard. It's harder. Better for food. We're just trying [1:42:31] to get rid of it. Right. And now I have a biodiesel converter I would love to sail. [1:42:38] Gas gas of cheap. We sell all our large and tallow all the beef and pork fat. [1:42:45] Well, I think that is because of education and unintended education that's not public [1:42:52] education. [1:42:53] This is education that's coming from people discussing this on podcasts and people [1:42:57] that are reading articles about the consequences of industrial seed oils. [1:43:01] Also the origins of these industrial seed oils, that they're originally industrial lubricants that weren't designed for human consumption. And then I had Gary Brecha on [1:43:09] the podcast, he had a fascinating guy who details the process that's involved in converting [1:43:16] rape seed oil, which is canola oil into what you know is what they think of. When people [1:43:22] think of canola oil, they think, oh, it's corn oil, it's healthy. It's vegetable oil. [1:43:26] Good for you. [1:43:27] No, no, no. [1:43:29] Your body's not supposed to eat that. [1:43:30] It's not supposed to get that much of it, first of all. [1:43:33] Also, it's rancid, and they have to use chemicals [1:43:36] to treat the smell. [1:43:37] They have to bleach it causes a host of problems. [1:43:46] And people are finally becoming aware of these problems [1:43:48] and also becoming aware of other options, [1:43:51] like olive oil, avocado oil, healthy oils. [1:43:54] Animal fat. [1:43:55] Hand animal fat, yes. [1:43:56] It's like fast food. [1:43:58] There is no fast food that's cooked in animal fat. [1:44:01] There are, if you eat fast food, [1:44:03] is 100% seed oils. [1:44:05] Right. [1:44:06] So there's a real rub because there is all this education around what seed oils are doing. [1:44:11] But, you know, people say, oh my gosh, I can't go out and eat. [1:44:14] You know, pulsality, and those have been, you know, so instrumental in that. [1:44:19] Yes. [1:44:20] And you know, the McDonald's used to cook their fries in the large. [1:44:23] They sure did. [1:44:24] They're did. He made Donald's. Tyler, about to back. [1:44:26] Tyler wouldn't. [1:44:28] Yeah. [1:44:28] Tyler. [1:44:30] Yeah. [1:44:30] And that's so good. [1:44:32] Yeah. [1:44:32] And they spilled a fortune to make them worse. [1:44:36] And to try to make the vegetable taste like the Tyler could. [1:44:38] Yeah. [1:44:40] It's crazy. [1:44:40] It's a French fries cooked in Tyler. [1:44:42] Shit. [1:44:44] It's good. It's a, I mean, rich frost cooked in towel. Shit. It's good. It's good. [1:44:46] It does taste good. [1:44:47] And it's not as bad for you. [1:44:49] Here it is. [1:44:50] Like most fried food, McDonald's fries are cooked in canola oil. [1:44:52] Didn't used to be the case beef towel was initially used because it's a [1:44:55] supplier for the chain couldn't afford vegetable oil. [1:44:58] As health concerns over saturated fat grew in the 1990s, fuckers. McDonald's finally made the switch to vegetable and what drives me nuts about that saturated fat things [1:45:07] That's a small number of scientists that were bribed what is essentially the equivalent of 50,000 dollars in today's market [1:45:15] So these guys were they were bribed by the sugar industry to write a bullshit article that [1:45:22] Made this connection between saturated fat and heart disease because they were [1:45:26] trying to lead people away from the actual conclusion is that it's sugar and that sugar [1:45:33] is what's bad for everybody and that's what's causing the increase in all these corn [1:45:37] oils. [1:45:38] But research today is exactly the same. [1:45:40] Yes. [1:45:41] Who's right in the check? [1:45:42] Right. [1:45:43] What do you want the paper to say? [1:45:44] Right. [1:45:45] What outcome are we looking for? Exactly. [1:45:46] It's so scary. [1:45:47] It is scary. [1:45:48] It's scary because the consumer, for the most part, [1:45:50] relies upon the air quote experts. [1:45:52] And these air quote experts, like we detailed with the FDA, [1:45:56] how they go immediately into some sort of a cushy job [1:46:00] in these corporations afterwards. [1:46:04] It's sick. It's really twisted and the unintended consequences [1:46:10] for the consumer is your health. [1:46:13] And you don't even know what's going on behind the scenes. [1:46:15] You trust these experts. [1:46:17] You trust these governing bodies to do the right thing. [1:46:19] And when they make things illegal [1:46:21] or they ban things, you think, [1:46:23] oh, they're banning things to this bad for you. [1:46:24] And in terms of no, some of the things they're banning for you are [1:46:27] very good for you but they compete with some of the things that are paying them [1:46:31] off that they can profit for more. [1:46:34] They can profit from. [1:46:35] Yeah. [1:46:36] It's spooky stuff. [1:46:37] But the only way that changes is through education and then you're seeing these [1:46:41] downstream effects of that education like with the fact that you guys are selling [1:46:45] large intel now. [1:46:47] People are waking up. [1:46:49] And liver, and kidneys, and hearts. [1:46:53] Spillin. [1:46:53] We used to, we used to, uh, literally compost [1:46:57] all those kinds of organs. [1:46:58] We sell a few, but now we sell out of those kinds of organs. [1:47:02] Yeah, I think the, some of the highest priced [1:47:04] per pound meat items that we sell are the most [1:47:07] nutrient-dense parts of the carcass. [1:47:10] Oh my god, how about that? [1:47:12] It's crazy. [1:47:13] How about that? [1:47:14] People are eating for nutritional benefit? [1:47:16] Finally. [1:47:17] Shocking. [1:47:18] You know what coyotes eat the first night, they kill a calf. [1:47:20] The guts? [1:47:21] Good. [1:47:22] Yeah, they go right for the liver. That's a wolf's eat. The alpha wolf is the one the first gets to the liver when there's a kill. [1:47:27] Watching nature has been so interesting. [1:47:29] Just to tell that story a little deeper, you know, dad always said if a bad herdsman has [1:47:36] a calf go down the first night, the coyote will chew through the anus and eat the most nutrient dense parts of the carcass, the liver, the kidneys, the spleen, and it's full. [1:47:47] They can't eat more than they can hold, [1:47:49] and it's not like they're gonna preserve it and store it. [1:47:52] So they leave, they rest during the day, [1:47:54] and if the farmer doesn't pick up that carcass the next night, [1:47:58] they'll come back and eat the muscle meats. [1:48:00] So they'll chew on the shoulder, the back legs, and they'll eat till they get full and then [1:48:06] the retreat, they'll sleep during the day. [1:48:08] And then if the farmer's steel does not pick up that dead carcass, they'll chew on the [1:48:13] hide. [1:48:15] And there's a lot that goes into the hair in digestion and pushing it through the stomach. [1:48:21] But that's the way animals evolved. And the first thing that they eat, we so [1:48:28] pretentiously won't rib eyes and New York strips and filet mignon when in reality the most [1:48:34] nutrient-dense parts of the carcass are so far from that. [1:48:37] Right, deliver in the heart. [1:48:38] That's right. [1:48:39] Yeah. [1:48:40] It's a lot of the hunters, unfortunately. You know, when I go hunting, I always take the liver in the heart from the elk. [1:48:46] And some people just don't do it. [1:48:48] They just leave it there. [1:48:50] It's unfortunate. [1:48:51] Because it's the best stuff for you. [1:48:53] But elk livers, rough. [1:48:55] That's an acquired one. [1:48:57] You got to season that, cook it with onions, and it's like, you got to be ready. [1:49:03] You got to be ready. [1:49:04] That's a flavor. Take it like a capsule. [1:49:06] Well you know it's interesting because the [1:49:07] Cammatches used to eat it raw with bile on it. [1:49:10] They used to eat bison, raw bison and they would [1:49:13] flavor it with bile. [1:49:14] Wow. [1:49:15] Yeah they would squirt bile on it. [1:49:16] That's incredible. [1:49:17] I don't know why. [1:49:18] I mean it has to be some sort of an evolutionary thing, where they realize that that's the most nutritious, that has the best benefits, it's best for you. [1:49:27] I don't know whether it aids in digestion, I don't know. [1:49:30] But... [1:49:31] Well, there are tribes in Africa that still drink blood. [1:49:33] Yeah. [1:49:34] That's not as rough though. [1:49:36] Blood, they drink blood, they drink blood, mix with milk. [1:49:38] Blood doesn't taste that bad. [1:49:39] You know, I've drank blood before, it's not that bad, but it's bile. [1:49:45] That's another level. [1:49:47] And you get to wonder how cultures evolve, [1:49:50] their taste buds and their preferences. [1:49:54] Anthony Bourdain told me that the most disgusting food [1:49:56] that he had ever eaten was this fermented shark [1:50:01] that he ate, I believe it was an Iceland. [1:50:03] And he said, it's a delicacy to them and they treasure it and they eat it and he ate, I believe it was in Iceland. And he said, it's a delicacy to them, [1:50:05] and they treasure it, and they eat it, [1:50:07] and he said, it is rough. [1:50:10] He's like, it is so foul and so disgusting, [1:50:13] but they like it. [1:50:15] And it's a weird thing, like acquired taste [1:50:18] are very bizarre, because like, why would you acquire [1:50:20] that taste? [1:50:21] Like, you came up with that. [1:50:22] Yeah, what is that? I used to think that when I was a kid, like the first time I ever had a taste of whiskey, [1:50:26] I was like, what? [1:50:28] Ooh, this is not cool-aid, cool-aid is so much better. [1:50:32] That's, I remember thinking that as a kid, [1:50:33] like if I had a glass of cool-aid or a glass of whiskey, [1:50:35] who the fuck is gonna take the whiskey? Look at good, you know, a glass of buffalo trace with [1:50:50] an ice cube in it. I enjoy it. But how? How does one acquire taste for something [1:50:56] that's initially so disgusting? And why? You know, I get it with whiskey because it [1:51:01] gets you lit. I do not get it with certain food. Like I guess fermented chocolate was probably a survival thing. They probably needed some food that they could [1:51:11] store for long periods of time when they weren't going to have any food, especially in places like [1:51:15] Iceland. It's a very rough climate. That's right. But you know, that's not a here and no there. [1:51:21] If people could eat a little bit of liver in their diet, I mean, I have friends that are very health conscious [1:51:26] that only eat it for the health benefits. [1:51:28] They don't enjoy it, but they'll eat one ounce [1:51:29] of liver every day. [1:51:31] That's right. [1:51:32] Freeze it, cut it in a little cube, [1:51:33] and drop it in the back of your mouth. [1:51:34] Yeah, you can do it that way. [1:51:35] Just get through it. I fed him some elk liver, I'll slice off a piece and give it to him. [1:51:46] And he's like, come on, got you tomorrow? [1:51:49] This is incredible. [1:51:50] It's like instinctive. [1:51:51] It's in his DNA that that is what he wants. [1:51:53] I had a boxer who is still to this day like my BFF. [1:51:57] She died like three years ago, and I'm still not over it. [1:52:00] But I trained her with liver and I would go to the kill floor at the plant, get some, [1:52:07] cut it in the little bites and I'd train her until she peaked and then she'd be ready to go again. [1:52:12] That's crazy. Food training is the best way to train a dog. Especially with liver. [1:52:17] Yeah, especially with liver. It is fascinating that we've moved away from that to the point where people crave the least healthy things, like, you know, fucking Cheetos. [1:52:26] You know, like we, I don't know what it is. [1:52:28] I don't, I guess. [1:52:30] Well, I think specifically in the case of like really unnutritionist food that you can [1:52:36] buy junk food is that these scientists have engineered these things. [1:52:41] The right amount of saltiness, the right amount of sweet and flavors that you know what's the the the Pringles thing but you can't eat [1:52:48] just one. Yeah and kind of you can't. Pop one and you can't stop. Yeah oh my [1:52:54] God for me it's ruffles. Because of the thickness. You don't get mad about it. [1:52:59] Oh my God. I can't stop. I can't stop. I just keep chewing them down. I know it's terrible for you Doritos That's another one like what is on Doritos cool ranch Doritos that they have never met a cool ranch and they're fucking life [1:53:12] What is a cool ranch? [1:53:15] Oh, yeah, that is a cool ranch. That's cool. You guys have a cool ranch. Yeah, it's a different thing [1:53:21] Yeah, but you're not gonna see white oak pastures Doritos. No, you're right [1:53:21] Yeah, it's a different thing. Yeah, but you're not going to see white oak pastures [1:53:23] to read us. [1:53:24] No, you're right. [1:53:26] Yeah, it is interesting how our food system has been [1:53:30] hijacked and how the expectation for food to be so [1:53:33] incredibly flavorful. [1:53:35] That's the expectation now. [1:53:36] Yes. [1:53:37] And you do get accustomed to it. [1:53:39] You get accustomed to certain sort of tastes. [1:53:41] And that's one of the reasons why people think [1:53:43] that wild meat is gamey. Like that's the concern, you know, [1:53:47] like whether wild meat is gamey. [1:53:49] And most of that, when they talked about wild game, [1:53:52] it's really just a poor handling of the meat. [1:53:55] It's allowing the meat to get too hot, [1:53:58] to sit in the sun, not cooling the animal down, [1:54:01] not getting it on ice fast enough. [1:54:03] That's really, oh or dragging through the sage brush after you slaughtered it. [1:54:08] That's really what it is. [1:54:09] Yeah, your culture really, we grits and drinks, [1:54:12] we eat tea, and eat fried vegetables. [1:54:15] It's a lot of cultural stuff there. [1:54:17] Yeah, a lot of cultural stuff. [1:54:18] And then you get accustomed to those foods, [1:54:19] and they become comfort foods. [1:54:21] And unfortunately, a lot of those comfort foods [1:54:23] are really terrible for you. [1:54:25] You know, one of the things that Gary, that we discussed these things with, when I discussed [1:54:32] these things with experts, I'm always blown away by things that I didn't know before. [1:54:36] And what Gary Breco was talking about the other day was folate, and that, you know, [1:54:41] these enriched flowers that are enriched with folate which is very [1:54:45] different than folic acid which is naturally occurring and that this or is [1:54:49] the opposite folic acid is what's not right what is it? [1:54:53] One's a really big deal to fully. [1:54:54] Folate is normal. Folate is yeah I made it backwards yeah so I made it backwards. [1:55:00] Folate is naturally occurring but folic acid is not, and your body doesn't process it the same. [1:55:06] So when you're getting all these enriched flowers, they're enriched with something that your [1:55:11] body doesn't want. Your body's like, what is this shit? And that's why so many people on top of the [1:55:16] fact that a lot of, you know, they've changed the way wheat is grown to make it more high yield. [1:55:22] So it's got more complex gluten in it, and then it's enriched with folate. [1:55:25] We're a folic acid rather. Yeah, it's terrible for you. [1:55:29] Well, again, we're not really growing food anymore. We're growing food like ingredients that can then be manufactured into something that's put into a package with a shiny label that may or may not be indicative of what's actually in the package, and then we serve it to people at something that they can afford. [1:55:46] Yeah. Well, I'm very, very, very, very, very thankful for people like you that you folks at first of all made this incredibly difficult decision [1:55:56] to take your farm and to convert it over much cost and heartache and a lot of pain and a lot of back breaking work to turn it into this regenerative farm. [1:56:07] And then you've gone out and told the world and you've shown that it could be done and [1:56:11] you've shown, especially through these videos where people can see it and through these [1:56:15] conversations that we've had where people can become educated that you don't have to [1:56:20] eat that way. [1:56:21] You don't have to live that way and you're not supposed to. It's not good for you, it's not good for the world, it's not good for the environment. It's not [1:56:28] good for anybody. And that if it wasn't for people like you that made this decisions, [1:56:34] it's a very difficult decision to do this. I think your conversations that we've had, [1:56:41] the conversations you've had with other people, and writing this book, and having these people understand these things, [1:56:46] is changed the way most people think and feel about food itself. [1:56:51] Thank you, Jamie. [1:56:52] I made a little spill here. [1:56:53] But I'm very, very thankful that you guys have done this. [1:56:56] And also Joel Salatin has been on this podcast before. [1:56:59] It's a very similar type of operation at Polyface Farms. And I know there's some other ones too and so shout out to them as well [1:57:09] But if it wasn't for you folks, I mean who knows who knows where we'd be at I think people would be stuck without a solution because even the term grass-fed beef when I was a kid [1:57:15] You never heard about grass-fed beef. I wasn't even a term that people were familiar with [1:57:18] It's it's a fairly new understanding and I think that if it wasn't for people like you that are out there shouting it from the barn tops [1:57:28] you know let's say rooftop but this is you know you're doing it the right way I appreciate you guys very much [1:57:34] well thank you for those kind words but I really don't feel like we deserve them the quality of our life has increased so dramatically. And it really is almost the opposite. [1:57:47] I don't feel like anything we've done, [1:57:49] we've done four other people. [1:57:52] We did it for ourselves. [1:57:53] But I'm delighted that other people have benefited from it. [1:57:59] And now what I wish is that more farmers could share [1:58:12] is that more farmers could share in the improved lifestyle that we now enjoy, not necessarily economic, but otherwise. [1:58:16] And I wish that that would make more of this food available for more consumers who would [1:58:21] embrace it. Everybody's poop floats on that rising tide, but it's just really [1:58:30] hard to get it started. It's really difficult. And you know, sadly, the good news is that [1:58:38] there are those of us out by not just us, but a number of us. They've shown that it can [1:58:44] be done. [1:58:45] The bad news is it's probably harder today than it was 25 years ago. [1:58:51] Why is it harder? [1:58:52] Because of the industrial food company is moving to come into the space like this whole thing. [1:59:02] To greenwash products. [1:59:03] We wash for yes. Like this whole thing to greenwash products we washed with imported you know imported product and words that are so loosely defined and not indicative of the attributes that [1:59:12] That they represent like free range there. Yeah, and product of the USA what you highlighted earlier, but you know [1:59:19] the consume if if we could move [1:59:28] If we could move the way we produce food, consume food in this country, the consumers would be so much better off. [1:59:29] The producers would be so much better off the land, the water, rural landscape. [1:59:35] It's just wind, wind, wind. [1:59:38] Today the winners are big multinational food producing corporations and high-tech corporations. [1:59:48] And I've got to imagine that for you, the personal satisfaction of running a farm the way [1:59:53] you do has got to be much greater. [1:59:55] It's got to feel much better on your conscience. [1:59:57] It's got to feel much more natural. [1:59:59] You know, every sense of the word, you know, I'd be in that, that one click in that path [2:00:08] for the food production, food delivered from the farm [2:00:11] to the consumer. [2:00:13] I don't think anybody ever enjoys that. [2:00:16] It's just the hand that stills us. [2:00:18] But when you take control of your own tiny, [2:00:21] tiny little food production system, it's just great. It's just great. [2:00:26] And the evidence here is, I've got, Gin is here with me. I need to mention, I've [2:00:33] got another daughter, Jody, who came back here, her wife, Amba, son-in-law, John. [2:00:39] They wouldn't have come back if I was an industrial beef producer like I used to be [2:00:46] They wouldn't have wanted to and I wouldn't have encouraged them to [2:00:51] But the fact that we made these changes has created a [2:00:56] entity that [2:00:58] Meanwhile, we're not blown away with profits. It's just very very pleasant to be part of [2:01:03] That's beautiful. [2:01:05] Well, thank you very much for being here, both of you. [2:01:07] Really, really appreciate you and appreciate what you're doing. [2:01:09] And tell everybody to get this book. [2:01:11] It's called A Bold Return to Giving a Dam, Will Harris, [2:01:15] White Oaks Pastors. [2:01:16] Thank you very much, sir. [2:01:17] Major Business Guard. [2:01:18] All right. [2:01:19] Beautiful. [2:01:21] That was actually a ribbone of a cow. [2:01:23] Nice. And then, so the meat went obviously to be sold as grass-fed beef. [2:01:28] The bones were boiled for stock, so we sell some broth. [2:01:32] And then the leftover of that, we turned into business cards. [2:01:36] Dad's got one that he's been carrying around for a very long time. [2:01:39] In less than years. [2:01:40] That's a crazy business card. [2:01:42] And he'll say, if you want to get in touch with me, you better take a picture. That's a crazy business card. And he'll say if you want to get in touch with me, you better take a picture. [2:01:46] That's awesome. [2:01:48] Thank you very much. [2:01:49] Thanks for being.