Joe Rogan Reflects on Fallon Fox Controversy

But you've have you been mobbed before you have oh yeah, what's been the worst oh one of the big ones was about Transfighter I remember that yeah, that was a hilarious one yeah, cuz I'm like you guys can kiss my fucking ass You're out of your mind You guys are out of your mind if you think that a man who has been a man for 30 years and has taken female Hormones for two is the same you put Brock Lesnar chop his dick off and put him in a dress that guy's gonna Mall through the women's heavyweight division like nothing you've ever seen in your life Yeah, cuz we're built different and it's just a fact and anyone who tries to argue that is crazy and there are there's certainly standouts in terms of women who are Like much more muscular higher bone density particularly african-american women a very high bone density But there's a different shape to their hips This there's the size of the hands the size of the shoulders It's things are different that and also the imprinting of years and years of testosterone It's just there was a great article by this board-certified endocrinologist who went over all of the all the things that separate men from women which should exclude them from Competean-combat sports against women and This woman was called a transphobe and she's a fucking endocrinologist She's talking about the science and she's also talking about the science of one of the things they talk about is how women You know or trans woman once they transition to being a woman. They're basically Biologically almost exactly the same as woman. She was like no Not only that but the bone density is retained by taking estrogen Which is what the problem with women when they have osteoporosis They lose they're losing estrogen. They lose bone mass. Well the estrogen actually helps you retain bone mass So when a man transitions to a woman and then starts taking estrogen It's actually helping retain the bone mass. He would have lost by not having testosterone Mm-hmm And then on top of that reaction times that Reaction times are several tenths of a second faster in general for women than they are for you or for men rather than they Are for even professional athlete women so these all these variables? Yeah that need to be taken into consideration when you're allowing Someone to do a sport and we're not just talking about bike racing. We're not talking about You know something where someone non contact we're talking about the most contact. We're talking about fucking fighting There's there's benefits that certain people have there's there's physical attributes that people there's variables inside the genders Right there's some men that have gigantic physical advantages over other men and all of those are Taking into you there's no like even playing field when it comes to even Intergender competition or you know male versus male competition. There's no real level playing field So the best we can do is say okay We guys got to be the same weight, you know, let's just make that yeah I get the same weight and that's as close as you can get but but even in that There's people that are just physically they're just they're just gonna be better. Yes. No, there's no getting around it There's gonna be better than athletes. There's they're gonna have better genetics You know, there's nothing you do about that But one thing we can do is we can keep women from getting beaten up by men Mm-hmm and and men who transition to being women and if you think that's fair You're fucking crazy And it's just not it doesn't make doesn't make any sense and the arguments for it are so shitty and so they're so Riddled with progressive speak that they're trying to pretend that this is a woman now This is not a woman. This is a trans woman. This is a male. She has a Y chromosome She transitioned to being a female now She's a trans woman and if you choose to fight her and you're a woman and you know that she's a trans woman I'm totally fine with that, but that was not what was going on here. What was going on here was this woman Who used to be a man for 32 years? Transitioned to being a woman and it didn't tell anybody hmm and fought two different women who thought they were fighting a woman And got fucking smashed badly injured. Yeah, whoa watching it. It was like watching a man fight a woman That's what I was watching. I was like, this isn't like particularly she wasn't particularly skillful. It wasn't like she had like some Unbelievable background and judo like Ronda Rousey or something like that. It wasn't that you were just Literally watching a former man beat up women. Mm-hmm Who never had the the benefit of 30 years plus of testosterone in their body? What do you think the solution should be then? I don't know but I was fascinated by watching the the mob come after me for that one Yeah, I was like you this is this is adorable. It was fascinating about it was Here's something that I I mean, I'm not a physio. I'm not a real expert in physiology or Endocrinology, but I'm a martial arts expert. I've been doing it my whole life. Like I know the difference I've trained with Women world champions and watch them get mauled by men who are not very good It's just a fact. Yeah, especially when it comes to striking, you know There's more of a gap in jujitsu or the gap rather closes in jujitsu because skill and technique Take precedent over physical strength, but goddamn it when it comes to striking you could get a man Who's been doing it for six months? But just happens to have a lot of fast-twitch muscle fiber and it just knows how to hit things hard and he'll fuck a woman up It's not good. Especially when it comes to kickboxing and kicking and punching. There's so there's so many advantages and To say that those advantages are immediately cut out of the picture As soon as you transition to being a woman and within two years You should be able to fight women in a cage and not tell them you're a woman. I was like this is insanity So that was the that was the big mob that came after me Hmm, I think it's interesting that in this because it is pitting people who would call themselves feminists against Transgender activists and it's basically women are being lost in the mix So you can't say certain things like when what planet would it be? Okay for someone who is born male to fight a woman But in this case because this person who's born male identifies as female you can't call that into question It and it also there was a real problem in Texas the other way where they're there What they were doing is being prejudice against trans people to the point where they wouldn't let a girl transitioning to being a boy Wrestle with boys. Yeah, they made her wrestle with girls while she was taking testosterone Yeah, like you guys are out of your fucking mind Like you you're not even recognizing that she wants to compete with boys, which is a disadvantage for her Mm-hmm or him. Yeah, let him compete with boys because this is a different thing Mm-hmm, but then even then a lot of boys are saying well, look, I'm not taking testosterone. I just have testosterone What if her testosterone is higher than my testosterone because she's taking exogenous testosterone. This is kind of crazy. Yeah It's there's a lot of new ground that's going on here. My concern as a Martial arts expert is when you are using ideology to push this this progressive notion that you know a Trans woman is exactly the same as a woman and you're getting women beat the fuck up because of them And this is what I felt this is what I saw and they wouldn't have to be hard for like a year or two But then it all went away. What's the worst thing they said about you? I didn't Didn't read it. I read a little bit of it. And then I was like, I really didn't even hurt my feelings Yeah, cuz I was like, it's just so stupid. It's like Do you know a woman who's got a hand that looks like that? Yeah, find one find one because if I took estrogen I'd still have these and that's not fair. Yeah, it's just not I don't care. I don't care what anybody says It's just not I mean even a woman with big hands. They're not that big. They're not like Brock Lesnar's hands Is it there's a difference? There's a fucking difference. Yeah, there's a difference in the shape of the jaw there's a difference in so there's so many differences and Men to women and there's so many women that used to be men that Transition to being women that are now dominating these sports and these women feel like they're being fucked over like weightlifting There was this Australian weightlifter who's a trans woman who's competing as a woman and is fucking breaking records Left and right and everybody's like this is crazy. She's an inspiration. You know, she's a guy She used to be a guy and now she's breaking these women's records like what are we doing? This is crazy Yeah, but to play devil's advocate Did he do didn't fallin Fox get beaten by? Yeah, yeah because she sucks That's really what it is. Actually Evan Smith is good. Okay, so she's so good She listen, there's a lot of women that would be a lot of men Yeah women who are not taking anything Who would beat a lot of men and it's happened Jermaine Durand to me who was super high level Women's MMA fighter is won the hundred forty five pound world title beat Holly home She fought a man in a kickboxing bout knocked him out. It's cuz she's a fucking beast. Yeah, she's really good and really technical Super strong and just much better than a guy who wasn't on her level, but she's just Super exceptional. Mm-hmm, but there's also women who fought men who were world champions who got knocked out Who there was a woman from god damn it. She was a female boxer from Holland Her name escapes me right now She was she was a woman that they were always trying to met match her up with Christy Martin back when Christy Martin The coal miners daughter was a famous god damn it. Why can't I remember her name? But she was an elite female boxer and she got knocked out by a man It was ugly and the guy she knocked out the guy who knocked her out really wasn't very good. Yeah, he just Clanged her on the jaw and KO'd her but it was disturbing to watch Yeah, but somehow wasn't disturbing when Jermaine Durand to me knocked out the guy then I was like, yeah girl, yeah The you can't you're always going to have people that are higher level skill and Ashley Evan Smith who's Competed successfully in the UFC. She's very tough. Mm-hmm, and she beat found Fox. Yeah, and that's listen, you know I'm not against Fallon Fox fighting women that want to fight her. I'm not against that if they want I'm not against women fighting men. She wanted to I'm not a man. I'm not against people riding bulls I'm not against people bungee jumping. Yeah, she'll be able to do whatever fuck you want but Don't pretend that you're exactly the same as a biological woman. Yeah, why the fuck do we have tests then? What why what is a what is a chromosome? What are genetics? What are what is it? Is it all? We're just gonna give it all away for ideology and what about women? Yeah, like what this idea of being completely progressive and And looking at things and and promoting equality. That's wonderful. But are you promoting equality for women? Like what about the women? What about a woman like you? What about a woman who's a slight and thin? What are you supposed to do? Yeah, how much do you weigh? I'm not gonna tell you Very I'm saying though. Yeah, let's pretend you're in the 105 pound weight. Yes Do you feel like you can compete with 105 pound man? No, that seems yeah, this seems ridiculous. Yeah, right Well, it seems to me that we have to accept the fact that there's some physical differences when the Consequences are being gravely injured and this is what martial arts are all about I'm trying to hurt you and I shouldn't have natural physical advantages that come from having a Y chromosome in 30 plus years of testosterone in my body that just seems to be obvious to Me. Yeah, and I didn't understand why but that was a hill that I was ready to die on I was like you guys can fuck off good for you for that But you see that they've kind of left you alone now, right because I do this Because I because I can say things like this about it and I because it makes sense Yeah, and because when other people hear about it that are rational people they go what what's happening? Wait a minute. That's a guy. She was a guy for 30 years Like that's not right and the vast majority of people who even support trans rights including friends of mine who are Trans were with me on this. They're like, yeah, that's crazy. Have you heard the term turf? Am I Surf and turf term. No turf as in T. Erf is trans exclusionary radical feminist So this is a new slur that's being used against women who will say Trans women are not women because they were not born women Wow trans exclusionary radical feminists that you would kind of get turf in this situation because you're advocating for women Safety of women and saying that people who are born male but identifies female are not the same as people who are born female Yes But that doesn't mean that I'm discriminatory No, but it's it's a word that they use to try and discredit you good luck. Have fun with that I don't care see this is a problem But the thing about this is I don't care because I really don't have any hate in my heart Mm-hmm, and I don't have any discrimination in my heart like I don't think most of us do well I can't speak for everybody some do but some do I'm sure I'm sure if you were trying look if you have a thousand people and 100 of those people are a fucking asshole to you. It's gonna feel like a lot of people, right? So if you're a trans person and you're you I mean I've seen horrific things written to trans people online I've seen it. I've seen I understand this real discrimination, but I understand that you have to understand You have to appreciate who your actual allies and people who are rational people who actually care about you and who? Disagree with you on one very particular thing and this is the only place where I disagree It's combat sports and it's because it's my area of expertise. Yeah, I've been doing it since I was a kid Like you can't tell me that there's not differences. I've watched men and women fight my whole life I know there's a difference and I know From talking to endocrinologists and people who are experts in the human anatomy that there's just Physiological differences that are insurmountable. Mm-hmm. It just are I've seen men and women hit the bag. It's a very different thing. Yeah, I Mean I get where people are coming from the people who are upset by this because I think by Acknowledging someone that someone was not born the sex that they identify as it's almost like saying pointing out to them that they're different But they are different. Well, yeah, they are different but I can see how that can be upsetting for someone who identifies as the opposite sex Yeah, you know what I can see how it's upsetting if you're short and you want to identify as being tall You know, what if I wanted to pretend that I was seven feet tall and you'd be like Joe you're 5'8 like Are you an asshole? Why are you saying I'm a 5'8, but you are so if I say you're a trans woman Which means you're a born a man you haven't why chromosome like what you're a piece of shit. How you pointing that out? Well, that's what you are. Yeah, it's not that you're negative. Are you? Are people who are dwarves? Are that is it evil to say that a dwarf is a dwarf or a little person or whatever? Whatever phrase you want to use are we supposed to acknowledge that? There's an issue like if someone is born with a handicap. Are you supposed to is that a fact? Are you allowed to discuss it as a fact if you have autism? Am I allowed to bring up the fact that you are on the spectrum or am I supposed to ignore it? Yeah, is it discrimination if you talk about reality if someone has a deformity? Are you allowed to discuss it or is it discrimination to discuss reality? Because what are we doing with our language? What are we doing with the way we describe the actual things that are that exist in the world? And if we're not describing them in accurate terms because we're trying to somehow another Stop people from getting hurt feelings. What are these feelings based on these delusional perceptions of reality? And why are we reinforcing these delusional perceptions of reality because it seems to me that this kind of language and this kind of exclusionary? the inability to use certain words and the inability to describe things accurately correctly and in many cases Scientifically it hurts everybody. Yeah, I agree with that. I don't think facts themselves are hateful I think people who use facts to justify discrimination That's where the problem is and that's where the efforts should be going because when you start to deny facts Where does that leave you? Where do you draw the line in that case? Absolutely, but I think it's there's something that's kind of cool about it that There are trans people and what's cool about it is that the world is weird You know, and I'm I'm not happy that they get a lot of hate But I'm kind of happy that they exist. Mm-hmm. I wish they could just be women I wish you could just like hit a switch and you really wish you were born a woman bam You're a woman, but I suspect that even if you could do that, some people would rather just be trans Some people would like to know how people that I know that are trans and also have dicks. Mm-hmm Yeah, and they want to keep the dick. Yeah, and they're like, okay Like what's going on here? And you do you know that you're transphobic if you're a straight heterosexual male and you're not willing to date A trans woman with a dick, but you know what it is It's actually a sexual preference for for men who will date trans women who were retaining their penis. That's what it's called in the literature They decide not to get surgery. It's actually a particular sexual preference for the people that are attracted to that. Yeah particular Yeah, it's called gynandrum or fafilia. Whoa someone tell Jim Norton I Nothing wrong with that either. No nothing. Yeah, nothing. Whatever do what you do it but this is the thing the difference between a man and a woman a trans man a trans woman and Then someone who could actually be a woman who transitions I think we're gonna get to a point within you know whether it's a hundred years or 500 years where we can use things like the the future version of crisper or Whatever comes down the line next some scientific innovation that's gonna allow people to literally transition