David Choe Got Lost Looking for a Dinosaur in the Congo

I'm going to train hop, I'm going to hitchhike. Vice gave me one of the first Vice shows was Thumbs Up. Gavin McInnis, Shane Smith, those guys I used to... I've been riding and drawing for... That's how I found out about you. Really? Yeah, I found out about you from two places. One from Bourdain, but two from a video that I watched of you going to the Congo looking for a dinosaur. That was the first thing I ever saw of you. I think that's like... Then I talked to Bourdain about you and he was like, you got to talk to this guy. You got to meet him. And when I saw your shows, like, look at this dude. This is crazy. He's looking for a fucking brontosaurus in the middle of the Congo. In 1994, I was living in Israel in a farm called Ramat Hakovesh and it was a kibbutz. And to live on the kibbutz, you have to work. And I was the illegal immigrant there. I have no money. So I'm making enough working on the farm just to live on the farm. And at this point, I'm 18 years old. I've been hitchhiking since I was 15 and I've seen the whole world. I've hitchhiked through Europe. I've hitchhiked through the US back and forth. And I'm bored. This is in... I'm like, what? You go to the Eiffel Tower? You take that same... What haven't we done yet? It's all mapped out. We've been to everywhere. We've seen everything. We've done everything. I have a heart of an explorer. I want to find new things. And so I'm living on this kibbutz. Most of the other people that are from Australia and South Africa... And what I love about them is they're so racist that they don't even know they're racist. Like I'm the only Asian guy there and they're like, Nintendo, Sega Genesis. I'm like, I got a name. And they're like, no, your name's Nintendo. I'm like, okay. And so I'm working illegally in a casino, illegally at a wedding catering place, and then working on this farm. So I have three jobs I'm making under the table. And there's a library on the farm of books that have been left behind by past travelers. And of course, there's an old, from the 70s or 80s, National Geographic catalog. And I start reading about Moklemenbe. I don't know if that's how you say it. But it's scientists, National Geographic people have spotted this fucking brontosaur-like thing in the Congo. And it's still there. And the Congo is still... It's the heart of darkness. I gotta fucking find this thing. I gotta go there. Like, I was... How old were you at the time? I was 18. You decided you were gonna go there? I was like, I have to go there. How old were you when you went? The... 18 years old. Oh, no, no. And then Vice... I'll bring it back to how that turned into Vice. So I get on a plane, tons of lying and manipulating to get the visa because it wasn't open to tourism. It was only open to business. And so I make up this story that I'm a bodyguard to a toothpaste executive. And I work day and night to get a ticket to the Congo. And there's no tickets. It's this airline Aeroflot. And I'm in Israel, which is close to Africa. But because it's this Russian airline, I get on this flight. It goes to Moscow and then Malta and then like six other African countries. And then it lands in Brazzaville. How long? Like, three days, almost like... And like a shaky airplane, you know? And everyone in there is the ones that got to get out, right? So when they're coming back, they're bringing chickens and goats and all kinds of shit on the plane. And it smells like shit. And I don't know... This is pre-internet, right? I don't have any information on the Congo except for I heard that there's a dinosaur there. What year? Ninety-four. Ninety-four, ninety-five. I lost track of time, but it was right after high school. So eighteen... So you don't have a cell phone either. No cell phone, nothing. And the second I get off the plane, it smells horrible because there's just burning trash everywhere and it's hot and it's oppressive. And I go, what the fuck am I doing here? Why am I here? And everyone there asked me, what are you doing here? They don't speak English, they speak French. I didn't know that. They're in the middle of a civil war. I think the two factions were called the ninjas and the cobras. Like little kids shooting at night. Every third bullet is like a tracer bullet. So it looks like fireworks. I go, what is that? And they're like, oh, they're just shooting into the air. First breakout of Ebola, malaria. And people go, why did you do that? It's not normal behavior. And I go, the LA riots happened in 1992. I watched normal civilization, normal civilized manners. You know, this is how people are. You go to a store, I saw that crumble overnight. In one night it went from fuck you, everything that's burned down, that's robbed, pillaged, steal, everything. I go, oh, it could happen that fast. And once again, that same kind of, oh, I think I'm accepted in this country. I think people like me for me. And it's like, no, we don't want you. Get the fuck, go back to where you come from. So I think, you know, and I could go on and on about all the traumas I've experienced in my life, but I hurt people, hurt people. I was in a lot of pain. I was like, I didn't like Korean people. I didn't like myself. I didn't like, I'd experienced a lot of, lot of abuse from black people. And I just wanted to, I didn't know anything. There was no internet. I didn't like, I felt like an alien. I don't belong anywhere. I just, so I would go, everyone goes, don't go to Bosnia. Don't go to the Congo. Don't go to the Gaza Strip. And I'm going to go every fucking place. My life has been very reactionary. Right. My life has been like, you don't tell me what to do. You don't tell me how to podcast. I'm going to stick a butt plug in my, you know, I'm going to do what, you know, so. I'm in the Congo. And it's in a full blown war. There's people being, and everyone's like, who are you? Who is this blonde Asian here? Like I had my hair dyed done too. And they, and so I could go and tell a million stories about the Congo, but at some point. Why you were looking for this brontosaurus for real, or you just wanted to go to the Congo as well? What I know the kids like to say 100%. I've heard you say it too. Yeah. Why not 99% just to leave 1% for down 99% I was there for the dinosaur. Like, like I was so young and dumb and stupid and ignorant where I truly, truly thought I was going to find it. Like I didn't know enough about like the, everything made sense to me. Because. Anyone listening to this right now, we're talking about a story from 20 years ago, right? Right. I was a stupid kid. I believed in Santa Claus very late. You know, like I was a bed wetter. I'm fucked up, man. So when I finally did get to the jungle, I got out of brasville. I got up and I got to, um, this jungle area called way. So then I believed because the spiders are this big and the frogs are this big. And how big are the frogs? Just everything is, looks insane. The snakes, they got snakes out here this big. Like it was like, okay, now I believe like every year scientists were finding a new species of something that they thought was gone. And I'm like, okay. The, and it's, and then, and then I, and then I meet the pygmies. Whoa. And, and that was. Fuck. I don't know what version of the story I should tell cause it gets so dark. I met a German guy named fuck. I shouldn't say his name. I met a German guy there who was the same age as me and he could, this is in the city. And then he could tell that I was lost. I didn't know who this guy was. He was being groomed to be like the next big politician in Frankfurt or something. And so I didn't, I didn't get this until later, but he was here as his like sex vacation. To fuck as many black, he liked black women. So he's going to fuck as many. Curb your language, Dave, to have as many intimate relations with women as possible. Is that better? No. The other way, I'm trying to be better for myself. That's what I'm trying to do. The other way was better. You're explaining what it was. It's not a bad thing. That's what he was doing. So I figure out, so he sees me as another young guy. I think to explain things accurately, you know. You could use other words though. Yeah, but that's what it is, right? It is what it is, but I can, I can come off. I can turn people off when I use that language. I want, who are these people? Um, people that don't like you. No, no, they're, they're people that they want Dave. No swear Dave. I came here for G rated Dave and I want my money back. I'm not trying to be G rated. I'm just trying to be G 13 Dave. That's what I was signing up for. Occasionally the word shit. PG 13, they have like rules, right? Like two shit. 99%. Okay. So I'm with this. You saw it though, that there was a real dinosaur in there. And when you got there and you saw the big frogs and the big snakes, I'm like, maybe it is. Yeah, maybe it is. And what happens is we, we go to the last spotting of it. Right. And then I meet, uh, any evidence at all? Like everyone I talk to, Oh yeah. Yeah. We've seen it. Like there's no, like, no, that's crazy. Every fucking person I meet is like, Oh yeah, it's in the last. Is it one of those things where realistically, there's not a whole lot of people looking for it anyway. No, but there are scientists that go out there. And in the meantime, I've never seen anyone murdered before. Until I got here. Right. I've been through the LA riots. I've seen things broken and burned down and guns pointed, but I've never seen anyone hung, I've never seen anyone stoned to death. And, and, and it's absolute chaos. I'm seeing people murdered. I'm scared for my life. I got attacked one time. So I go, I need to find it. Now I have to find this dinosaur. And I also know that there's a chance that I might never go home again. So I write a letter to my parents. They don't know where I am. They think I'm in Israel on this farm. Like I didn't tell anybody. So I wrote my parents this long letter of, I love you guys. I'm about to embark on a journey to find a dinosaur. And I sent it at the airport before I got on the plane to the jungle. I have no money. I have only one change of clothes. I have fucking blonde hair. And I, I go into the jungle and we get lost immediately. I'm a fucking city boy. What the hell do I know about the jungle? What do I know about the jungle? Where we, did you have any direction? Nothing. I just, I just knew what, you know, you know what? When I landed in the jungle, there was a guy that I think I want to say his name is Chris that was a Peace Corps guy. And he was there to help build welds in this Bantu village. And he said, the place, what you guys are looking for. He's like, it's a, you're not going to find a time. You know, he was like the reasonable one. And I go, how do I know if you don't try? You know, I still believed. I still wanted to believe. I was willing to risk my life for it. So we get, I haven't fucking told the story in so long. So we get to the jungle and, and we start walking. There's a minor trail and then it disappears. It's just gone. And I'm like, we're fucking lost in the jungle. We're lost in the jungle. So I'm with this guy that the, the, what we told people, he was here to fuck as many women as possible, but we went with the story of he is the toothpaste executive and I'm his bodyguard. That's a fake bullshit story. Right. As we're lost in the jungle, he starts to think that story is real. Hey, go fetch me a pineapple. I go, dude, I'm not sure. He's like, you're not a real executive bro. Like I'm not going to get, and he starts like telling me, like, like, I'm like, Hey, you know, that was a fake story. Right? Like he's like, and there's no one around. So we get lost for days and he starts to really be like humiliating towards me and right on my nerves. And we had rations. We went in with some crackers and some like tuna in a can thing. And I go, Hey man, we're fucking lost. I don't know how to survive. We need to ration this food out. I come heat it all. He ate it all. And, and, and, and now like, have you ever been in that kind of situation where you're like, I'm going to die here. Like, I'm never going to, like hope is gone. Like I'm in a thick, thick Congolese jungle. Like, I don't know how to get out and we've been lost for days. Like, I don't know how to survive. I don't fucking know how to like, I, this is it, you know? It's insane. And on top of it, I have this fucking German asshole who's like talking down to me, making fun of me and eating my fucking rations. Like I would pump all the fucking water and put the water purification tablets and be like, thanks. And I'm like, dude, what the fuck, man? Like that I did all that work so we could share it. And so he was just, he was a dick. And so, man, and you're stuck in the jungle. You've been in a jungle like that before? No, dude. So we set up a tent, we have one tent and so we're, we're in close quarters with each other at night. The moon is like this fucking big, like it's humongous and you hear the entire jungle come alive. What like fucking monkeys and like things are bumping into the tent at night, like huge insects and like, and I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna die here. I'm gonna die here. So the few times in my life where I've been in this kind of hopeless situation, the only thing that's going to get me out of it is if I can control my mind. Cause if I, cause I'm fall, I'm like falling into despair and in the daytime, I'm doing standup to the trees. Cause we're just walking in like circles and I'm like, Hey, how are you guys doing all tonight? You know, you don't know where you are. I don't know where I am. Oh my God. I'm talking to the vegetation. Oh my God. And this guy is riding my last nerve and he's, and so I could safely say I lost my mind and so we're down to our last food and he, and I, and he did it again. And I said, bro, what the fuck did I tell you? We got to make this last. I'm starving. You ate the rations that were supposed to, that was it. And he's like, whatever. And he's, he has a more like dissociated, like checked out, like, w w like, we'll get out of here somehow. And part of, I don't know, his coping thing was to like talk down to me or whatever. And so that night and we're, we're lost at this point a week and a half. Maybe we haven't, you know, I'm fucking 90 pounds. I've lost all this weight. I'm going to kill this guy. I'm going to murder him. I'm going to fucking murder him. Cause I don't like people talking shit to me like that. I don't like, I've been a punching bag for this guy for, for weeks now. And I'm just going to fucking kill him. And if I have to eat him to survive, I guess I'll do that. And so he's out cold. He's got fucking crumbs on his face, tuna, fucking juice from the food that was supposed to be shared. And I pick up, I go outside the tent and I pick up, I pick up a huge rock, like bigger than this. And I go, I'm a fucking kill this guy. I have officially lost my mind. Like I can't, I'm barely going to survive. I can't do it here with this guy. So he's out and that's fucking looking at his face and I pick up the rock and I go. Just like, I don't even have to apply any pressure. If I just drop it, he's done. Like he'll be fucking dead. And I go, fuck, is there anything left? Is there any common sense? Is there any light left in my, uh, I gotta fucking kill this guy. He has to go. He has, he has, he has to die. He has to die. He has to fucking die. Uh, and then I just, I didn't do it. I'm not a murderer. I can't like, and in the mind, I'll do it. I'll do, I'll do what murder Dave come to the front. No one's ever going to know. He does. His family doesn't know he's there. Your family. Nobody knows who you are. This guy, Chris, the Peace Corps guy. He's not going to fucking say anything. You can kill him right now. He has a ton of cash that he hasn't been sharing with you. You can get out of here. You can fucking get some of your pride and your ego back. Those fucking guys treating you like a fucking, like, like a Chinese waiter or something. Do it. No one will ever know. No one will ever fucking find out. You are, you're probably going to die too. You want to die like fucking catering to this guy. Just do it. And I'm sitting, no, I don't, I don't want to. I don't, I'm not a murderer and I didn't kill him. I woke up the next day and I'm just looking at him like motherfucker. You don't even know. You don't even know what almost happened last night. We're walking around. Hey, what's that? There's a fucking pygmy up one of those 200, 100 foot trees. He's just sitting there chilling. And I go, what is that? Is that a person? Wave at us. 200 feet above you. Huge tree. Like just, I don't know. That's so high. It's so high. It was so high. How did you spot him? He was, he was like, it was shaking a little. From the place he was to get in front of us was seconds. Like, hi, it's like this short. What's this jungle that was, I mean, when you, when you're in there, do you even see sunlight through it or is it just? No, it's so dense. I mean, like, yeah, there's some cracks, but it's just, this was also in the national geographic why that the dinosaur would be here is because cameras can't see it because it's such a dense, thick forest. And there's things in there that are like moving and, you know, your description sounds terrible. It's terrible. Trying to sleep in the tent. Oh my God, dude, I'm freaking out over here. So, so the, the, the guy comes up, he's this short. He's like tiny. He's like, you guys want some honey? What? And this is, this is where my skill as an artist has got me out of so many situations. Right. Because if you're in, if you're in jail and you have any kind of skills, singing, dancing, telling jokes, drawing your celebrity. So this guy doesn't speak English. We don't speak whatever language he speaks. So I start drawing stuff like food, like, you know, in the dirt and he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I got you. And he, and he, and he goes and he brings us some meat that's all charred. And I'm like, I don't know what that is. You know, and, and I took one bite and it tastes horrible. And I'm like, I'm going to starve to death, but I can't eat that. Wow. And so it was like a movie. He's like, come on, come on. We're walking. And you know, it's us like stumbling machete trying to, he's just like, like, we get around a corner, entire village of pygmies. They've never fucking seen an Asian person before. I'm C3PO and they're the Ewoks. Blond, they're coming. They're touching my face. They're like, yeah, look at, look at like, he's like, I don't know what the fuck they're saying. Like, um, the kids keeps doing this thing. Like, uh, I go, what are you saying? There was one older, older guy in the village that I guess spoke a tiny bit of, uh, French. So my, the German guy can translate. He's like, they're saying you come from the stars that you're coming from the stars. And I'm like, Oh my God. That's heavy. So I'm like, so I'm like, we're saved. They bring us some honey. They bring us some fruit. And I'm like, Oh God. I'm like, just devouring. They're laughing at us. And you know, it's like the national geographic, the women's tits are like down to their ankles and, um, this fucking guy, he's an alien. He's an alien. I told you. 1995. I was, uh, I was 19 years old. Yeah. 19 years old. Yeah. And they put that, um, they put their clothes on for the picture. They were all naked when I got in there. Wow. Um, look at my Tiva's. That's amazing. That picture is amazing. So I, um, now had any of these people seen it, did you ever describe it to them? Oh yeah. So I draw the dinosaur. I go, here's the dinosaur. And what were they saying? They go, Oh yeah. Yeah. There's never like, no, it's always like, okay, there's the dinosaur. And, uh, they go, let's go. And I go, they go, it's through wetlands like this. There's going to be leeches. Like, uh, there's a disease called bill Harsia where, uh, there's like, uh, snails under like still moving waters. And then second, a mammal steps in the water, little fucking parasites shoot off the snail, like a, like heat seeking missiles and they go in your dickhole. And then you piss and shit blood till you die. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, okay, I'm done. Like tap out. Like, so they're explaining like all the. The trek and the way to go find this dinosaur. And I'm like, I went, I went up until the leeches. And then when I came out with the leeches, I go, all right, like this, this is it. You know, I go, can you help us get out of the jungle? And they're like, it took less than a day. That's how close we were to like, really? We were probably fucking walking in circles. So we get out in less than a day. I get, I get back home. I'm 19 years old. I start writing for, uh, for vice. I start drawing pictures for them. I do comics I'm writing. And, uh, oh no, I was writing for a magazine called giant robot and, uh, Gavin and Shane would read that magazine. And they're like, they were, they were ahead of the curve, right? Like when all print magazine, right? Existed. They were like, we need to go to digital. Like, like they were, you know, vice has always been free. Everyone fiends it. They go to those magazine shops or wherever. And then, and they're like, we need to have online presence. The internet was brand new. And they said, Dave, that is the fucking, and I told you, not the PG 13, but that story gets very dark, darker than I said. They go, will you go back with a camera? And a camera crew. And I said, that was one of the most traumatic. I almost died. I saw people murdered. There was a fucking virus where people were bleeding out of their eyeballs. No. Okay. I'll go enough time had passed. It was 10 years later, actually. It wasn't, it was, that was, uh, 95. And then it was like eight or 10 years later. And, um, so that was the one that vice filmed. They're like, can you go back? Photo for the Mickey Mouse shirt. That was, that was from when I went with the film, like just my camera. So I go back and, um, how do we even get to this? The dinosaur. They all see the same dinosaur. Have you, have you? Shit. Look at that. There it is. Mochola dude, you're fucking on fire, Jamie. Holy fuck. Yeah. That one number three, number three is bonkers. What is that? Unless it's a log. Could be a log. So on my, on my second trip back, I met the doctor. There was a doctor that lived in the village close to that river. Look at the track. And he said he'd seen it. Really? And he's like not, uh, you know, I wonder if any like real legitimate biologists have looked at those tracks. The, I mean, they could tell you by the way, the footprint, like they can kind of tell whether things are fake or real or not, based on like how, where the weight is distributed. Like someone who really understands some how these animals would walk. I think it would be really hard to fake dinosaur footprints, right? Cause the weight, it would have to have like a there. The description I just read in the said it wasn't that big. I shouldn't say it's not big, but it's like 30 feet, 35 feet. It's pretty big. It's like a big, big giant elephant. Think about how big those fucking alligators were that we were just talking about. Yeah. So it might be a turtle they were seeing. That's why I don't know if what they actually found a turtle through here. Their dicks were so big. Like when we went to the river to bathe, they were like, okay, they just take their clothes off. And I'm like, Oh, I'm going to keep my clothes on. And I go, they go, Oh, I go, dude, I have like a normal penis for like, I'm proportioned correctly. Like your shit is down to your knees. And this was back in the city when I got back to Brazzaville and they're like, bro, you know why our dicks are so big? I'm like, why? And he's like, there's all these naked kids running around. He's like, cause we never wear underwear. I'm like, what? Like see the girl whose tits are down to their stomach. Never wear a bra. It's gravity, bro. Everything just droops. I'm like, that's why your dicks are so big. I'm like, I'm still going to leave my underwear on. Takes too much time. Wait, you've never, you've never been to Africa? No, never been to Africa. Dude, I'm begging you. I know you're into the hunting and the bow hunting, please. Like, so when I texted you, like, What does that have to do with anything? Africa, man. Hunting in Africa, you mean? So when I texted you the other day, I saw that the last time I texted you was 2018. I was like, dude, I'm going to Africa. I'll see you when I get back. That's right. Yeah. And, um, Okay, this is the, this is the, Yes. Yeah, you can tell me. This is very heavy. So there's a, there's hunter gathered tribes in like the Arctic, Papua New Guinea, the Amazon, Africa, but very few, like they're almost gone. There's very, very few people that live off the land. And I just, whenever the podcast went off the air and I, and I, and I ghosted, I, I just lost my mind. I hit my rock bottom and very similar pattern of what I always do when things get rough is I just go to Africa. I go, it's a weird thing to be like rich or be in a country that's rich or have stuff and some, as an adult, someone has to teach you gratitude. Like I hear you say it all the time. I'm thankful. I'm thankful. I'm grateful. I go, but I'm not, I have everything. And yet I fucking complain like crazy. I'm like, I need to, I need to get the fuck out of here. I need to go someplace where, where I can, I can learn humility. I can learn to be grateful. So I get to, I'm traumatized now by the Congo. I didn't even go into my second Congo story when I went with Vice. That was even crazier with the fucking chief try to kill us. But, um, so Congo is the heart of darkness. I get why those books are written. I get why people have these mind losing experiences out there. Cause it is one of the fucking darkest countries I've ever been. So I don't want to go somewhere different this time. Do you know the European settlers, they tried to live in the Congo for a while. I met one. Did you see the houses that they left behind? Dude, when I got to this Bantu village and, uh, Chuck, his name was Chuck. Chuck, if you're listening, I know it's 20 years ago, long blonde hair from Oregon, Peace Corps guy, he got malaria while we were there. And he goes, please contact Francois. And I go, who the fuck is Francois? And he goes, he's, he's in the jungle and this is, this isn't in the Congo village. It's the Bantu village. And he goes, you go down this tree and you go, so he's deep in the, in the, but this is still near a village. It's not, you know, so we go into the, in the, in the jungle and there's like a giant Victorian French, like European house in the middle of the fucking jungle. And I'm like, how did this happen? And he's like, so we go in there and, uh, Francois is just like, like a, some fucking weird French dude that just said, I'm going to stay here. He had like 12 Bantu wives. There's all these like half black, half white babies crawling around. And he has a ham radio and he's like, what's going on? I'm like, Chuck is fucking dying. Can he said to come contact you? And he's like, okay, I'll contact the aircraft carrier and they'll send a chopper in for him. I was like, Oh shit. But yeah, that's, that's the one time I saw a French Victorian. I don't even know how to describe the architecture. It was like a beautiful French home in the middle of the fucking Congo jungle. There was a website dedicated to, uh, those people that tried to do that. And it just detailed how it all went terrible for them. And the jungle just overcame the house. Like you can't keep the jungle back. It's too powerful. There's too much there. The jungle is gross so quickly. It's just fucking, I mean, you'd have grass popping out through the middle of your floorboards and shit, trees trying to grow through the side of your sewage system, like they're just, it's just too much. It's wild. When my life, when you just said too much, like I just thought right now, every time in my, my head hit a rock bottom and my life gets too much, I go back to Africa. So when someone says go back to where you come from, maybe it's Africa. Well, we all do. Right. We all do.