Q: Brogan doesn't say much on this episode, does he? A: No, he is doing his utmost not to shit his pants.
4 months ago
Jared Cannonier is a professional mixed martial artist currently fighting in the Middleweight division of the Ultimate Fighting Championship. www.ufc.com/athlete/jared-cannonier
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Ladies and gentlemen, hey, what a fucking crazy couple of weeks of fights has been, man. There's so much to talk about. Absolutely. This last main event, oh my God. I'm still like in shot, the Justin Gaethje head kick knockout of Dustin Poirier. I'm like, oh my God. I mean, we all knew that that fight was going to be tremendous. Something big was going to happen in that fight. So when it did and how it happened, it was beautiful. Chief execution of that technique by Justin Gaethje to get that head kick off, it was beautiful. It landed beautifully and he followed up nicely. Well, it wasn't a follow up. He was on his way. I think the ref stopped it. I think he did land one hammer fist. Yeah. But yeah, it was perfect. It was a direct mirror image of Leon Edwards kick. Yeah. On the opposite side in the same place. In the same arena, yeah. Crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. Crazy. Something's going on there. Oh man. I'll tell you one thing and you could tell me if you feel it as a fighter, but there's something about the energy in an arena when you go to a place that really appreciates that you're there. Because we're in Vegas a lot. You guys fight in Vegas all the time. They get a little used to the fact that the UFC is there. But when you bring it somewhere like Salt Lake City, they get fucking hyped up. Those people were there for the first fight of the night. The place was packed. And there's this wild feeling in the air. Everybody's excited. Does it as a fighter, does that affect you? Well absolutely. When you hear the crowd reacting to the fight and- Pull the mic right in front of you. When you hear the crowd reacting to the fight in itself, you get energy from it. I get invigorated by it or I get checked by it. If the guy's doing something good and the crowd's loving it, I'm going to put a stop to that. So I like to take control of it in a sense. But yes, it is a- It's a factor. Yeah, it is a huge factor. For some. For some it isn't. Some people can just stay focused and stay on the rails and handle their business. But I like it. But I like fighting in the- Do you like the apex as well? I like the apex as well. Because I find that fighting in the apex is a bit more personal. You know what I mean? I can hear my opponent breathing. I can hear his exertions. I can hear his corner. I can hear my corner a little bit better. You can hear- There's still a crowd there and you can hear them. So you still get the feel of the crowd as well. Of a crowd. Although it's not that big. It's not as big. But you can hear everything. You can hear the commentators too. I feel like when I'm at the apex, I feel lucky. Like, oh, I'm lucky to be one of the people to be here. Like when Francis fought Steepay at the apex during the height of COVID, I was like, we are so lucky. We get to be here live for this. There's only like 30 people in this place. That's that thing, man. It makes it feel personal. Yeah. It's very personal for those in attendance as well. Yeah. Well, yeah. Those in attendance and even people watching at home, I think you get a sense of that from that. It's like you're watching us like a fight in a gym. You know, it really is. It's like a high tech gym. I mean, that's kind of what they did. It's kind of what the UFC did. They just made their own gym and they made their own arena. A little intimate arena. And it's great for Tuesday night fights too. Yeah. The contenders here. You can just go there and handle business and then go back to whatever else he was doing. Yeah. And the PI, like putting something like that, such a high tech, like state of the art gym or guys can do their camps there. Yes. The PI has been a goldmine for a lot of guys, especially those guys in Vegas. I've used it a few times, but I don't really get up there too often, you know. But I can imagine if I did live there, I'd be in the PI all the time, maybe once, twice a day. They really help guys scientifically cut weight correctly too and give them an assessment of whether or not they can do it and be healthy when they're doing it. That weight cutting game is a crazy game. And you got a wild career, man, because you start off at heavyweight, you go down to 205 and now down to 85. Has anybody else done that and been as successful as you? I don't think so. I don't think anybody's gone down. You know, Conor McGregor's gone up. He hasn't been as successful, but he's just successful in anything he does, you know. But I'm saying, like, has anybody ever started out as a heavyweight and gotten down to become an elite middleweight? No. I don't think anybody's done that before, yeah. Well, Vittroy's gone up. He's fought up at heavyweight. Oh, yeah. He did. Yeah. He's fought up at light heavyweight. But middleweight would have been his correct weight class, I think, if he started today. Like what he wound up in, I think that's the correct weight class with weight cutting. Well, I would say the same thing about me too. Yeah. I'm not no natural heavyweight. Right. Right. And I knew that while I was fighting heavyweight, I was just an undisciplined heavyweight, if you will, you know. Well, you probably walk around in heavyweight all the time. Well, absolutely. Yeah. I think a lot of us middleweights walk around in light heavyweight or above the light heavyweight level. Yeah, above the light heavyweight level. Like, what is the heaviest you get when you walk around? Be honest. As a middleweight now? Yes. The weight I've gotten was 125. No. Yeah. 225. 225. Yeah. So I'm about 220 right now, but I haven't been back to training as consistently as I would like to be. It's so crazy that you say that so casually because you look great, you look super fit, and the idea of you being able to lose that much weight is so bonkers. Yeah. Well, you know, water weighs a lot. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I burn a lot of water. So there's like a ... I guess they break it down when you do it with someone like, you know, that's a real expert in dehydration. They break it down like how much muscle mass you have. And the more muscle mass you have, you can actually ... Muscle's mostly water. You could suck more. That's why guys like Yoel Romero were able to make, you know, 185 when he's a big guy. He's fucking big. Yeah. Just a thick thing, you know. From top to bottom. From top to bottom. The idea that that guy's 185 for even more than 13 seconds. Yeah. Well, not anymore, right? He's doing 205. Yeah, now he's doing 205. But you know, he's a top contender at 185 for a long time. Yeah. Without weight cutting. But that was a hard weight cuts for him though, right? Yeah. Because he was so big, I would say. But I was never there for any of them, so what do I know? When you do yours, how far out do you just start to change your diet? And like, how much time did they ... Like if the UFC calls you up and says, we want you to fight for a world title in two weeks. In two weeks? You can't get down there. In two weeks? I mean, well ... I haven't done it before, but I'm sure I could. Hell yeah, I could. Right? But you wouldn't want to. Yeah, I think I could. Ideally, what would you want to? How much time do you need to get all the way down to healthy? I would comfortably four weeks at the very ... Four weeks. At the least. You know what I mean? Eight weeks to be the ... You know, there's a general consensus for fight camps. Eight weeks for those who want to put a little extra on it. Right, but like how much of the camp is centered around being careful with your weight? How much do you think about it? I would say the whole camp. The whole camp. You know what I mean? Because when I'm not in camp and I don't have a fight coming up, I don't really pay attention to my portion sizes. And that's the big thing, is the portion sizes. And the quality of the meats that I'm putting in my body as well. So I change from eating less red meat for sure. You know, I eat more salmon, more fish. And portion sizes, again, for me is important. The work output, as long as I'm going to the gym, making my appointments that I made for myself and I'm going to the gym twice a day, I burn it off. And I sweat off a lot too. So I can, as long as I got at least four weeks, I can make it happen. You know, at where I'm at now. But when I'm training, you know what I mean? I'm around 210, 215. And all I have to do is change my diet. I'll drop about 10, 12 pounds in about two or three weeks. And then cut the weight during a fight week. That's not that much then. So then you really just cut in about 10 fight week? Yeah. So that's a healthy way to do it. No, I'm not showing up fight week at 220. Yeah, no, I absolutely don't. There's some guys that have done some wild cuts, some really wild ones. Where you're just like, did you just not prepare for this at all? Did you just try to wing it? Did you put it off? Like, how did you allow yourself to come in so big and try to cut so much? Just miscalculations? Or maybe just to get called with an opportunity that they can refuse. Right. And no matter what state that they're in. Yeah, they couldn't have made it. They don't want to be the ones that say no sometimes. Do you ever envision a time where the sport would have no weight cutting? Where they would just match people up by weight? When there's no weight cutting? No weight cutting. What if there was more weight classes but no weight cutting? I think that would be fine. I would love that actually to make it more of a natural competition, you know what I mean? As opposed to people trying to get the edge off, trying to get the edge on their opponent. But it seems like a crazy edge to agree to. Yeah. Like, I firmly believe that if weight cutting didn't exist and then people started doing it now, they would try to ban it. They would try to say, don't do that. That's dangerous. You're 24 hours before you're going to have a fucking cage fight. You're going to dehydrate yourself to death's door. To death's door. I've seen some dudes that were on death's door. Really? Oh, yeah. Travis Luter, when he fought Anderson Silva, was the worst I ever saw a man when he was cutting weight. Travis couldn't walk. He was shuffling to the scale. Yeah. And he missed weight. He missed weight in a world title fight. And he had a real shot against Anderson because his jiu-jitsu was phenomenal. His jiu-jitsu was phenomenal. He took Anderson down. He got caught in a triangle and got beat up. But he was the closest I saw. I looked at that guy. I'm like, oh my God. If I found that guy in the desert, I'd get him right to the hospital. I'd be like, holy shit, bro. You okay? Have some water. We're going to get you some water, man. Jesus Christ. That's what he looked like. Wow. Just out of it, huh? Just sucked in. When you're almost killing yourself, you're taking all the water out of your body and then you're putting it back in. 24 hours before the most extreme physical combat sport that's currently available, which is MMA. Out of your vital organs. In America. Out of your vital organs. In your brain, yeah. There's some left way shit. They might disagree that there's more extreme. Yeah. But that's why I wouldn't do no extreme weight cut myself. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's why I said, that's why middleweight is where I'm stopping. I could probably do well to weight with a strict diet over a period of time. Wow. I could probably do a giant well to weight. Yeah. But that would be uncomfortable for me. That'd be uncomfortable. I wouldn't be able to live the way I want to. I wouldn't be able to eat the way I would like. You know what I mean? I remember I ran into Rumble, rest in peace. I ran into Anthony Rumble Johnson in a hotel lobby and I go, how big are you? And this is when he's fighting at welterweight. He goes, I'm 230 right now. I'm like, no way. No way. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He was in town for the fights just to watch, but you couldn't believe how big he was and then he would make it down to 170. Wow. Even if that was fight, I would explain some of his missed weight cuts showing up to fight with the 230. Yeah. I don't think the UFC now would allow something like that to happen. I fight like that to go up. Probably not. Well, there's so much more, you know, there's some more eyes on the fighters behavior and what they're allowed to do and not allowed to do. I think there's a lot of it, like I was having a conversation with Jeff Nowitzki about it, like that they are trying to introduce things like peptides and allow fighters to use things that help them heal from injuries and give them exemptions for things like that because it's only beneficial to the fighter and their ability to heal from injuries. A lot of people, at least anecdotally, there are some studies on BPC 157. I don't know what the full date is, but I know that the doctors that I work with and the people that I know believe in it a lot. And it used to be legal for UFC fighters. Then they banned it just recently. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. It's a bummer. This is why I don't use supplements myself. I only use this stuff they give us from like throwing supplements. I think UFC has a partnership with them. Right. They're all third party tests. Yeah. No bullshit in them. Yeah. There are some other things like element tees, hydration packages I'll use every now and then. Those are great. I rarely do I take supplements. On top of that, I'm kind of even just taking them consistently to get the benefit from them. So it's really no point in it for me. So do you have someone who cooks for you? Do you have like a meal service to use? My wife. Your wife. Yeah, there you go. That's perfect. Because I see some guys, they take it so seriously. They have like stacked up Tupperware containers that they get from a company and it measures out all the carbs and the protein and it writes it down 50 grams of carbs. We got guys like that in the gym too. I think that's more of a convenience thing. You don't have to stand over the stove for 30 minutes to an hour and a half cooking and preparing food and stuff like that. Whenever I think about people that do stuff like this, I think about Fedor. Because Fedor used to fight. He had a big belly. You don't even give a fuck about Porset control. I mean. He was very unassuming the way he looked physically, but his demeanor. He was such a beast. I was listening to, I can't remember who was talking about it on a podcast. I'll try to remember it. It might have been Zohudo. I forget who was talking about it, but they were talking about, oh no, it was Rampage. It was Rampage Jackson. He was talking about how Fedor was his favorite fighter and he was recalling this moment where Kevin Randleman suplexed him and threw him on his neck. And Fedor's expression never changed. I saw that clip too. Is that wild? It's so true. Because he just, no matter what, in the heat of battle, just stone faced. Never, no emotion, no nothing. Stone faced. That just says he saw some hard shit as a child probably. Yeah, right? Something. I mean, it definitely wasn't easy. Whatever he went through was not easy. That dude is a, that is a hard man. How did that fight in? Look at that. He commorted him. Like right after that, but look at the compression there. Yeah. I mean, look at how he's landing there. That's crazy. Fedor, can you move his hand? Yeah. Like right afterwards. Yeah. You want to see it? It's pretty dope. Yeah. It's pretty dope. See if you can find the finish. Yeah. He, when he was going down, he tied up an arm. Okay. See, have you found it? It's only showing that slam. Oh, just go Fedor taps. Random. Yeah. I'm sure I've seen it one point or another. It was incredible. Okay. Here it is. So, random and slams him. Oh, how did he flip him over already? All right. He's skipping ahead. Yeah. I want to see the transition. So, he takes him down. Boom. Right. Bye, Randall. Bye, Randall. Bye, Randall. Bye, Randall. Oh, this is the starter fight here. Yeah. So, this is before, yeah, this is the starter fight. This is before he body slammed him. Yeah. So, he took him down first. That'd be nice. Do you, do you like the idea of that? The 10 minute round? Oh yeah. I think so too. I imagine like the option to, there it is. Boom. Crazy. Ew. That was nice to the head on the ground too. Yeah. Pride was a different beast. Oh, that was a beautiful roll over. That was beautiful. That was beautiful. And then he started throwing his own leaves. And then he got the kamora off of this, I guess. Is that rampage? Dude, those are hard shots from the top here. These are fucking hard shots. Damn. Yeah. Like that dude does not care about portions. He just eats whatever the fuck he wants and smashes people. Yeah. I wish I got to see that guy live. I have a regret. You've never seen Fader fight live? No, no. No, and all the guys from Pride, he was the one I would like to have seen live. I got a chance to see Crocop fight live a bunch of times. But seeing that guy in his prime in Japan must have been wild. That must have been wild. So you've been in this game for a number of generations. Yeah. If you were to map the MMA as a sport, how many generations would you say we're in right now? I guess it's the 30th year of the UFC. And an elite fighter, what's the average amount of years they can compete? Is it probably 10 average? Yeah, 8 to 12. Some guys can extend it. Randy Couture extended it. I actually started late. But some guys extend that time period where you could fight as an elite fighter. But there's only a certain amount of time. So that's kind of a generation, right? So it's like 10 years. So I would say we're at least three generations. But it's more like four or five because the generations, they change in terms of like... The skill set. The skill set. The skill sets improve. I was just having a conversation with a friend of mine about how people today, like everything they do today, they get a chance to see all the people who've done it before. And it helps you get better. Just like there's more. If you want to watch MMA fights, in the 1993 when the UFC one was around, you couldn't see anything. Like what are you going to find? I watched my first MMA fight on a VHS tape. Yeah. Yeah. I watched my first one too. Some people watching now don't know what a VHS is probably. Yeah. And those people that fought in those things had nothing to look at first. They just went out there and did it. And they just were hoping karate worked. Wow. You know, they were hoping that Judo was enough. They were hoping that freestyle wrestling was enough. Talk about going there blind, huh? I mean, those are the wildest of wild people. I mean, respect to the pioneers, like the Hoist Gracies and the Ken Shamrocks and the Dan Severns and Don the Predator Fry. It's like those guys. Those are the pioneers, man. Yeah. Mark Coleman. There was nobody before them. No. Nobody before them. And so they didn't know what to expect. They just knew that they had it. They knew that they could get paid money to fight. Yeah. And so they were like, okay, for as long as this lasts, let's do this. And for a while, it looked like it was going to get kicked off cable. And then it did. It got banned from cable. You could only get it on direct TV. Mm hmm. That's what I used to get it. I got direct TV specifically because it was the only way. No, it was before Spike. Spike TV was when that's when it really took her off. But that was like 2005. Okay. Yeah. But there was a long period of struggle with the UFC. Yeah. Both when SAG had it. There was so much suppression. It was so hard for them to get into venues and get sanctioned to have them in certain states. It was a, it's a grind. When you first started watching MMA, how old were you? How old was I when I first started watching? Yeah. So when you saw your first. I was in Alaska when I first started watching. When I see my first fight, I was in Dallas. I was transitioning from college into the military. So I was about 21, 2021. I was 21. Yeah. So it was just a fight. My mother, she had, she was adopting children and she had this Ecuadorian, a Shaolin Ecuadorian, a Shaolin monk from Ecuadoria, right? An Ecuadorian who was who lived in the Shaolin temple and trained and lived that life. You know what I mean? And he would go outside and meditate and practice his art, practice kung fu and stuff like that. And he found it on TV. I didn't even know it existed or anything like that. And he was watching it one day when I came in and I sat down and watched it. I think I was watching. I can't remember the fight. I believe it was Shogun and somebody. But anyway, I saw the fight and it didn't really pique my interest at the time, but I was interested in it because I respected the competitive aspect of it. I definitely love martial arts and I was just seeing these people fighting stuff, but I didn't see myself training at the time. At that time, again, I was transitioning from college to the army. So when I get into the army, they have a modern army combatist program, which is like basic white belt jujitsu, you know, minus a lot of the stuff that we do in actual jujitsu. But once I got my first hands on experience with the martial arts, I was like, oh, this is something I need to do with my vessel, with my body. This is something I'm meant to do. And even as a kid, you know, watching all the kung fu movies, the Ninja Turtles is big. I love the Ninja Turtles. But all the martial arts stuff, you know, it interests me and stuff. On top of that, my daddy, whenever I would go and visit him, he has a gym in his garage, a boxing bag, and me and my brothers would throw the gloves on and play around. Not really taking it seriously as a martial artist, you know. But once I did it in the army, I knew this was something that I need to do with my vessel, something I have to throw myself, I have to ingrain into myself. So that was in basic training. And then luckily in AIT, we had my AIT phase, which is our training phase for our job in the military. My AIT phase, one of my drill sergeants was like a level three combatives, had like a level three proficiency at combatives. I think it goes like one to four or five or something like that. And there was a battalion combatives tournament that I could participate in, you know what I mean? So we were training for like a month, a month and a half, maybe two months of training basic white belt jiu-jitsu for the modern army combatives thing. And I loved it, man. I was having fun. I was learning. I was exercising. I was applying my mental capacities to something that I wanted to apply to, not something that I was ordered to apply to or something I was trained to apply to. Something that I wanted for myself. And those were one of the best times I had in the military, you know, one of the best aspects about the military that I liked. And I got all the way to second place in the tournament, you know. I think I had like four matches. So I got all the way to second place. And the guy who took first place was like some football athlete, just some buck strong motherfucker, you know what I mean? Who was just faster than me, you know what I'm saying? My technique wasn't able to get it done. So I took second place by points in that one. So it was all good. So that's the birthplace of your martial arts training. Of my martial arts training. And so in the army combatives program, how much striking did they have? Well, when you get up to a level three or four, I think that's when they started incorporating striking. And that's what I wanted to do throughout my military career. So were they essentially teaching like MMA? Like how they're incorporating grappling and striking? They weren't. There wasn't MMA. I think they did. When you get to the very tip top of whatever you're training, then they have like MMA, they combine MMA. But usually it's separate. Okay, so it's grappling or striking. And then is it striking like Muay Thai style? It seems a little bit like amateur Muay Thai. You know, they have the headgear and the shin guards. And there's no elbows and stuff like that. So they modify it. So I guess soldiers don't end up getting hurt and taking out a duty and stuff like that. Yeah, but why would you remove elbows? Well, they're too goddamn effective to remove. Like you want people to be proficient in elbows. You want someone in a hand on hand fight who breaks his hands to be able to throw elbows. Yeah. And a person with really good elbows can do that. But a person who doesn't have good elbows is doomed. It's funny you said it because I broke my hand in the fight. And I had to finish it with an elbow. There you go. With elbows. Yeah, I can't imagine why any effective system would want to remove elbows. You could give guys elbow pads. Yeah. You should have them at least practicing elbows. I mean, obviously take care of your training partners. Don't try to smash their face in. Well, I think again, you got to think of it like the amateurs. They don't want guys getting cut or... Right, in the fights. Yeah. And it's the military. They want their soldiers to be soldiers, but, you know, world class fighters. Yeah, but if you're going to teach them how to fight, teach them all the way. Like don't teach them taekwondo. That's what you're going to say? You know what I'm saying? You're a military, right? Yeah, that's what I want. Don't teach them taekwondo. Teach them Muay Thai. Teach them MMA. It's not that there's anything wrong with taekwondo, but if you're going to train someone to fight, like why would you remove elbows? Like to put that back in there. You need to be able to stop someone that's coming towards you. Just... Some dudes, when you watch like elbow masters, you know, dudes like John Wayne Parr, dudes that slice people up, you know, San Chai, guys you just know how to step in and smash people with elbows. It's a beauty to elbows. Yeah. Oh! I'm actually increasing my repertoire with the elbows and stuff. I'm working with a few of the guys. Ben throws some nasty elbows in Sparne. He doesn't wear elbow pads, but he has such good control and awareness of his distance that, you know, sometimes... And I'm not too spastic, so I'm not like running into elbows either. So there's a little bit of control on both sides, so you know, he can just barely like, boom. I'm like, oh my God. Like I can only imagine the amount of damage he could have done if he really... if we were going at it. Yeah. But I've been working with him. He brings it out of me a lot, you know, working with Ryan Diaz, who comes in and helps me out, shows me a lot of the stuff, you know, he knows a lot of ties and stuff, so he's a Muay Thai specialist himself, so... Did you ever see the fight between Nate Marquardt and Tyron Woodley in Strike Force? That was the last fight in Strike Force, right? Oh my goodness. I did see that one. Oh my goodness. I don't know if that was the last fight in Strike Force. I think that was the last event. The very last event? Really? Yeah, I think that was the last fight because that was the main event. That fight was insane. That stoppage was insane. I mean, this is like video game stoppage. Right over here, the over-the-top elbows. Yeah. Then he hit him with his elbow. Look at this. Uppercut. Boom. Oh my goodness. I mean, that was a video game stoppage. Yeah. Like, people freak... Like, they missed out on this Nate Marquardt era when he was at his prime. Yeah. And that fight is like a great example of it. What year was it? Boom. Oh my God, I'm not sure. Because I remember watching that. I was a big fan of MMA at that point in time. Boom. I mean, insane combination. Boy, I want to say, what year is that, Jamie? I have to have been like 20... early 2010s, like maybe 11 or 12 or something like that. Yeah, I was thinking. That makes sense. I'm kind of bummed out that like, Bellator and the PFL are going to become one thing now. Yeah. I like having a bunch of different organizations. Apparently, that's what I keep here. 2012. 2012, yeah. Rockhold versus Kennedy. That was a great fight too. Damn, why great fights in Strikeforce? My God. Strikeforce was one of the few organizations where you could absolutely say that it stood like neck and neck with some of the best UFC fights at the time. Yeah. You know? Like when Nate Diaz or when Nick Diaz was running shit over there when he had that fight with Cyborg. Like, when Nick Diaz had that fight with him. That crazy fight with Paul Daley. Yeah, with Daley. Insane fight with Paul Daley. And then with Frank Shamrock and Robbie Lawler. Yeah. Yeah, Robbie Lawler fighting Melvin Manhope over there. Remember that one? Remember that. See, you could say that like when Luke Rockhold was the champ over there and then became the champ in the UFC. You could say that like the level of fighter in Strikeforce at the very peak... Was at the level? It was at the same level of the UFC. Like Josh Thompson was over there. It was at the very same level. It was just elite. I mean, we just got through watching that Woolie fight. Last event they had. Gagard Musasi. I mean, elite. Gagard Musasi is a bad motherfucker. Jacare Sousa. Tim Kennedy. Ryan Couture, who's a bad motherfucker too. Who's Randy's son. Josh Barnett. Daniel Cormier. Geez. But Woolie went on to become what? The Westway Champion after that? After that knockout? Yes. Yes. Yeah, no, Wilter... Yeah, after that knockout. When he entered into the UFC after that knockout. Yeah, after that knockout. Yeah, for sure. It was quite a bit... That J Heron knockout. Oh my God. Yeah, that was a nice... Whoo! Yeah, it's interesting if you go back and watch the first UFC and if someone did like an analysis, like some egghead did an analysis of like what percentage better are elite athletes today? I would be very curious. Yeah. I think we ought to be curious. I think that will put into numbers, right? Yeah. Quantifying, you know, what we're actually doing with ourselves. Yeah. I think we can probably put some direction on how to direct that trajectory, maybe even accelerate it. I wonder if you can accelerate... I mean, it's so accelerated right now. I mean, it's so accelerated right now. I mean, nobody's really focusing on it, you know? How many of us are focused on it? Right. Combining all this stuff and progressing it to the level... And then it's only going to get so far because you can only test it out against the current level of competition out there. Mm-hmm. So there are factors, limiting factors, but if we all focused on a certain thing as opposed to... If it was like a collective consciousness focusing on it, like a think tank or some shit like that, I think we could speed it up, you know? Really? I think so. Like how so? What do you think they could use to speed it up? Well, there would definitely have to be... It would definitely be over a length of time. There will be a lot of training involved, right? Because... But I would say with people focusing on it, like you've got different experts at different fields... Right. Testing shit, trials and trial and error and type stuff like that. You know, how science works, right? You get a bunch of ideas together, you test them out, you see... You document the results. Yeah. I see what you're saying. But I also think that's a big part, and this is what a lot of people disagree with, about martial arts, that it's an art. I think it is an art. I think people disagree because they don't like arts where people get hurt. But I think it's an art. And I think everyone... It's something about whatever it is that draws them to that art, whether it's wrestling or it's Muay Thai, whatever it is that draws them to that. Right. And to me, like, you're never going to be able to fix that with numbers, you're never going to be able to quantify that. Like, well, what drives someone to become elite, world-class striker and then learn how to wrestle? Yeah. You know, it's a different animal. It's a different thing. And you got to let people figure out what their thing is. Yeah. Some people, it's a jujitsu thing. They just want to take people down and strangle them. And some people, it's like, no, they want to keep you on the feet and beat the fuck out of you. And you got to let them figure that out. And it's like some of the best fighters are not necessarily the most balanced where they're great at everything, but they're so good at one thing that they can impose that, whether it's grappling or whether it's striking. It's a really interesting argument, like, what's the best approach? Is it to be an elite specialist and then also an elite athlete that can pick up the other stuff quick? Or is it better to be like fully well-rounded, like, like Mighty Mouse, who's like the most well-rounded guy ever? Everything you do world-class. Ground game world-class, stand-up world-class, everything, no holes. That's like the guy. If I had to look at like technique for like all-time technique, Mighty Mouse is the guy. Yeah, I agree. For sure. He can do everything. He's the best all-around fighter. He can do everything. And he was a ghost. He was in front of you and then he was to the side of you and then he was kicking you and then he was shoving you, then he was fucking dropping punches down on you and then he had your back. It's like, whoa. Yeah. He was a speed demon man with perfect technique and a library of information in that relationship that he had with Matt Hume. Like, Matt Hume is a very, very intelligent guy and very interesting guy when he talks about martial arts. He knows a lot about martial arts. And he was another one of those guys that was like early on he was fighting an MMA. He fought Pat Militech in an MMA fight that I watched. One of those weird organizations that was emerging that we forgot the name of, like World Combat Something or Another, you know? But like that relationship between like a great coach and a fighter, like a DJ and a Matt Hume or, you know, a George Pierre and Ferrasahabe, like this kind of relationship that happens with certain athletes. That shit is so important. It really is. I mean, you got to have a coach that's going to be able to communicate with you and then you be able to communicate back with your coach. So you go from Army combatants and what is the next gym that you join? Like, when do you start like taking MMA as a path? Well, after I get out of the Army, well, I was trying to do it in the Army, but that wasn't a priority. So after I get out of the Army, I relocate to Alaska. I use my skills that I acquired in the Army to get a job with the FAA and I get hired on in Alaska. So I relocate up there, me and my wife, and so we relocate up there. And as soon as I get up there, I mean, there's a lot of time in between my exit from the Army. I exited, what, 2008, December? And I'm in Alaska, July 2009. So in between that time, you know, I found it. I had the bug, so I found the judo gym, you know what I mean? I'm broke as a joke right now, you know what I mean? I'm on unemployment because I just got out of the military and my wife is pregnant. You know, we found out two days before we had to clear posts that we're pregnant, so it was pretty harrowing time for us, you know what I mean? But I still wanted to train, so I found myself a judo gym. And I trained judo for about a month and a half, two months, and tried to pick up as much as I could. In between that time, I was applying for the job with the FAA, eventually going through all that hiring process of, you know, interviews and a bunch of other things. We relocate up to Alaska, and as soon as we get settled up there, me and my wife and my newly born daughter, I'm looking for a gym, you know what I mean? And I find Gracie Baja Alaska that's up there, and I get into it, you know, I start doing jiu-jitsu. I'm like 300 pounds, you know what I mean? Training and stuff. In between this time, in between my army time in Alaska, I put on a bunch of weight, put on a bunch of baby weight. So I'm training jiu-jitsu, you know what I mean? 300 pounds up there, throwing myself into this martial art. You know, I didn't even know about MMA. I wasn't concerning myself about being the UFC fighter or anything at that time. But one of these days, I look up and see these guys are striking, you know what I mean? So that goes on for about a month or two, and I'm interested in it, and I wanted to get in shape first. So I didn't just throw myself into everything the gym had. I just wanted to do focus on jiu-jitsu. So I just did jiu-jitsu for a couple of months, and then opportunity came up, and I just did a couple of the MMA classes, and it was fun. I was hooked. One thing led to another. I figured out, I found out they had a MMA promotion in Alaska, the AFC. So I trained for about a year from like the end of 2009, early 2010 to about early spring. It was about March 2011. So where were you getting your striking in? You were getting your striking in? At Gracie Baja Alaska. So the guys that were striking there, you just joined in with them? Yeah, I just joined in with them. Was anybody like a... Well, it was an MMA team. Oh, so it was an MMA team? Yeah. So they had an actual MMA team, and there was an MMA promotion. There was a few other gyms in the town as well. So I just threw myself in. I couldn't do it at first because of work and stuff like that, and just being home with my daughter. But eventually I trickled my way into it and got hooked, and it caused some friction at first, but me and my wife made the adjustments we needed to, which was either be close to work, me personally, I either have to be close to where I work at or close to the gym, because that's where I'll be spending most of my time at. So how crazy is it when you think of that moment then, when you first started doing this, when you had to convince your wife, and now you're one of the top middleweights on planet Earth? It is crazy to think about it. Crazy? Yeah. Crazy. What a journey that is. And it's hard to think about it as it being crazy, because I'm in the driver's seat, so it just seems like the road that I've been on. You know what I mean? Right. So a lot of people are astounded by it. So to go from, I guess, a regular guy to, like you said, the top middleweight in the world. But I don't really see a scene in the transition. To me, it's just been, like, this is what I want to do, this is what I need to do with, this is something personal for me. You know what I mean? So like, people go to church, it's personal for them. You know what I mean? This is personal for me. This is personal development. Not only just doing martial art, what you see on the outside, learning how to do a move and, you know, be stronger than the next man, but the internal aspects of it is what really drew me to it, of being a martial artist, you know? So... Well, it makes sense when you watch you fight, because you're constantly improving. You don't, you always are on the path, which I think is very admirable and very difficult to maintain for a lot of fighters, to maintain their enthusiasm for the path. You know, they'll have some setbacks, and then maybe they lose a little bit of enthusiasm from the setbacks, and it's hard for them to, like, regear up, but you always stay on the path. And like, all of your fights, like, the Marvin Vittori fight was super impressive, man. That was a super impressive performance. Thank you. And it's just like, you're getting better. It's like, we knew that you were elite as a middleweight, but you, even through the fights that you've lost, you come back and you're better, every time you're better. It's like, you keep seeing that the path and the hard work is paying off with every fight. Yeah. And, you know, that's interesting, because Coach says, Coach said it in a very interesting way, that once you get to that top level, the improvements are incremental at best. You know what I mean? So it's hard to see them. Yeah. And that's one of the things he's impressed by with me, as well. He says, because I'm making semi-drastic, I don't want to say drastic improvements, but I'm making some big improvements that are noticeable. You're making some big leaps. The movement in the Vittori fight was noticeable. That was very impressive. That your movement was like, it was, there was much more activity going on. It was really technical. Yeah. Setting them up really well. And it's only going to get better, I promise you that. I believe you. For me, it's already gotten better, because I've moved on from that. Right. But in a big fight like that, in a big win, is there also like this feeling, almost like you've leveled up, like you've gone through, like you got affirmation. You knew it, you thought you were going to beat him. Vittori's one of the best in the division, for sure. Yeah. He's a beast. That's another dude. How the fuck does that guy make 185 pounds? Yeah. He's a beast. He's a beast. Yeah. I always stand next to him, like how the fuck do you do that? He's so big. His head's got to be like 40 pounds, right? Pajeta, who just fought at 205 this week, going to beat Jan Bojovic. When you're standing next to him, you're like, what do you really weigh? Probably 230 pounds. He's gigantic. He looks like he's 225 pounds when he's standing there. And I think he is something like that, right? They tested them the day of the fight, to see how much weight he put back on. It was like 22 pounds or something like that. Something bananas like that. Yeah. Yeah. What did he weigh, Jamie? I think they'll show it. They showed the before and after. Yeah. That fucking dude's good. He's good. Yes. And now that he could defend on the ground, too, look at that, 228 bananas. Homeboy gained 23 pounds and had full endurance, man. He looked fantastic in that fight. That was a good fight. When you think about it, though, is that really, I mean, it's like, what, two gallons of water plus some food? A gallon of water is like eight pounds. Is it? Right. Yeah, I guess. How much is a gallon of water weigh? I never even thought of that. A gallon of water is like over eight pounds, I think. 8.34? 8.34. Okay. So, yeah, you're right. A little bit over two. Yeah. Two gallons. Maybe closer to three gallons of water. We're definitely drinking that much. We're definitely getting that after cutting weight. Yeah. Yeah. With him being that big, that's not really that big drastic of an increase when you think about the fact that we're, he may not be as dehydrated as he was at middle weight, but I'm sure he's dropping his weight, especially to get back up to 220. I feel like I shouldn't let that go. I think when you dehydrate yourself, you really can really put down some water. Yeah. No, I agree for sure. And I think when you're a real big guy like he is, the benefits of that weight cutter, without a doubt. Yeah. I was like 215 when I fought Vittori. Were you really? Yeah. Is that- That's the most that I've put on. Yeah? Yeah. That's the most. Did you do it on purpose or is it just happened? No, it just happened. I didn't do anything intentionally. I just, the only thing I did intentionally was prepare a big jug of tea with some electrolyte and stuff in it that I carried around with me. That was the first time I've done that. When you do something like that, do you sip it slowly when you first start taking it in? Because you're dehydrated for like how long? I don't sip so- I just get it. No, because I cut the night off. That's the most dehydrated I am. I cut the night off late that night so I can just try to go to sleep and then wake up and go to the early weigh-ins. And that's how I do it. And I wake up and if I need to cut extra, there's still time to cut because I wake up early. I can't sleep the night of a weight cut. That makes sense. Yeah, I've heard different people do it different ways but I think people are realizing now it's better to just get up early. To get up early and do it? Yeah. I think it would be better. You want to sleep? You just wake up- Yeah, you want to sleep hydrated. You definitely want to sleep hydrated. Otherwise, you're missing a night of sleep for real. No, you're absolutely right. Yeah, it's like you're going to always dehydrate yourself but you're going to miss a night of sleep because you want to be dehydrated earlier. Don't do that. You need that fucking sleep. I really wish that there was a way around it because I just don't think it makes any sense and I know it's tradition and I know it's the fight before the fight like John Anick always likes to describe it as but I just think it's unnecessary and dangerous. And I think it's dangerously unnecessary. There's no reason to have people almost kill themselves a day before a fight. Yeah. Well, I think it affects guys' chins and Josh Barnett was saying that. Josh Barnett and I were having a text conversation about this. He said it absolutely affects your chin. When you get dehydrated, your brain doesn't hydrate as much. You're not just dehydrating yourself. You're dehydrating your brain, your liver, your kidney, your heart. It can take a shot as well. Yeah. Yeah. So it's one of those things, man. It's like I just I feel like it's a legacy thing in the sport that I wish wasn't there anymore. But I do like to see a guy like you go from heavyweight all the way down the middle and I do like that because when you find it go, God damn, he's big. It's worth it. It's worth it because you could really be a bully in there sometimes. You're a big middleweight and it has its advantages. It has its advantages and durability too, I think. You're absolutely right. I'm able to absorb a lot more, even though that's not my goal is to not absorb any of the things in there. But it's the nature of the beach. You can't really block them all, I suppose. But same for guys like Vittori. It's like one of the things he's famous for is he could take shots. Yeah. Because I'll put some heavy leather on that guy. He was just looking at me like, yeah. Like, yeah. No, he's a warrior. But that was a really intriguing fight for me because I know he's elite and I know you're elite but you just beat Sean Strickland and then you went right into that fight. I was like, this will show. This will show where he's flying colors, man. You just dominated him. There was, I think, your most technical performance. Do you agree with that? I think the Anderson-Silva fight was pretty technical as well. That was very technical. That was very technical. That was very technical. That was very... But that was mostly leg kicks and predominantly leg kicks. Yeah. I think I was more disciplined in that fight, to be honest, because the goal was he's going to be hard to hit in the head. Right. Whereas, well, I'm thinking of comparing this one to the Strickland fight, not to the Vittori fight, but I was able to make that adjustment. His head's going to be hard to hit right off the bat, so I'm just going to touch you down there. I stayed to that and it only took one round to cause that injury. Anderson is, as far as I know, the only guy who successfully come back after that shin break. Yeah. No one else was able to do it. Well, didn't McGregor? Well, Tyrone Spong... Didn't McGregor fight a... No, he hasn't fought since the injury. Oh, okay. He hasn't fought the injury. But Tyrone Spong, he's done it. He injured, yep. He had a horrible one against Gokonzaki. Horrible. Same thing as Chris Wybin, your eye-haul, same check. Horrible snap. Isn't he about to come back though? Well, Tyrone Spong became a boxer. He'll still do MMA. I know he had at least one MMA fight since then, but he was an elite kickboxer. He was an elite man. He was so good. And to see his shin snap like that, you're like, God damn. I mean, you would always think about it before you went to throw a shot. You would always think about the two years it took you to fucking regrow your bone back where you could throw kicks with it again. Yeah. I wouldn't say it slowed my kicks down. Chex have done that enough. You know what I mean? Chex hurt enough or deterring enough. But yeah, it definitely gives you something to think about, you know? It's definitely a very effective thing. It's one of the most horrific injuries in the sport. Yeah. That shin injury. And it's happened. There's so many versions of it now on Instagram. Yeah. You see small shows where guys are doing it, accidentally breaking their legs. I think Noguera getting his arm snapped was pretty horrific as well. Oh, that was horrible. That was horrible. I saw another girl get her arm snapped in a Jiu-Jitsu tournament. Yeah. Same thing. Oh, god damn it, tap. I remember when Khabib had Michael Johnson and I remember thinking, just please tap, please tap, please tap, just please tap. Don't make me see this, man. Don't make me see this. Tap. He got you. Fight another day. Please tap, please tap. That fucking spiral arm fracture from that Kimura is so nasty. Yeah. Oh. And I hear those are from doctors. I hear those are really hard to repair and stuff. Yeah, hard to repair. Yeah. You know, who knows if your arm's ever going to be the same again. Yeah. That's a rough one to come back from. My friend Tom broke his arm playing basketball. Like, what was it, like two years ago, Jamie? Two years ago, it's still fucked. He's still struggling. It's humorous or? Only part of the break. He broke the top bone, like up here. Oh, that's humorous. Yeah. It was big. Yeah. Big fracture. Yeah, that was- Curve damage in his hand. I can imagine that one being painful because it was- Not only is the break painful, but you got the weight of the arm pulling on that thing. Yeah. And that could make it hard for it to heal as well. Yeah, dude, injuries. What's the worst injury you've had in MMA? In MMA? Well, I didn't- In my MMA career, I've torn my pec training. You know what I mean? I think the worst one I had in competition, I mean, I broke my hand in competition. Did you tear your pec in drilling or sparring? It was just- We were initiating a warm up. So it was a warm up role. Me and Ben was like a warm up role. And I was passing his guard and- Ben Henderson? Ben Henderson, yeah. Yep. And he- Shout out to the lab. Yep. Oh yeah, all day long. Lab all day. You all know that. Everybody knows what we do. It's great. Great job. It really is. Yeah. That's the whole reason why I quit my six figure job and moved to Phoenix, Arizona. Yeah. But yeah, he had a wizard on my left arm and I was passing to the right side, so I cleared his leg and I went to pass his guard and I went to- I was extended with my left arm because he had the wizard and I went to get strong to collect him up at the side control. And as soon as I contracted that pec, it tore just like that little three little rips and it tore. That was February. I think that was during the- that was fight week for John Jones versus- who did his last fight at like heavyweight? Dominic Reyes. Dominic Reyes, yeah. So that happened in Houston at the hotel. Wow. And then I came back and fought- yeah, that was 2020 before COVID. And then I came back and fought Robert Whitaker and Abu Dhabi. Was it still fucked up? No, the pec was fine. Okay. Shout out to Aeris Physical Therapy. No, he got me running around with all my shout outs. Now shout out to Aeris Physical Therapy. I've been hitting them up since the Anderson Silver fight. You know what I mean? I've been working out with them, working out there, as well as working out at the lab. Those two combined of- you see- you guys see my cardio. Those two combined has really propelled my career. But I came back after the pec tear to fight Robert Whitaker and like not a minute into the fight. He throws his patented Reaper combo, one-two head kick, and breaks my left ulna. Oh man. So I ended up fighting this guy for what? Another two rounds plus four minutes of the first round with a broken ulna. I almost got him too. You should see the other guy, right? That's one of those crazy freak injuries that like it can always happen when you're blocking kicks. But it was my fault. I extended my arm to block more reactionary as opposed to being grounded and prepared and bracing and ready to absorb the kick. Like oh shit, kick. And the reason being because I was slipping his initiation. Typical shit. We all see it happen all day long with Robert Whitaker. We all know that combination. Were you surprised at the Dreckers Duplisi fight? Oh yeah, who wasn't, right? I wouldn't say I was surprised as if he doesn't have the capability to do what he did. But it was still surprising to see it happen, right? Because we all think so highly of Robert and his ability to go in there and fight at the highest level. It was shocking. I'm sure Dreckers, he fucking, he opened some eyes with that one. But to be honest, when I look at that fight, when I was looking at that fight and the lead-up to it, that fight went exactly how I thought it could have gone. I even thought Robert was going to be the tactician that he is and pick him apart. You know what I mean? Maybe hurt him with some shots and get a finish or take him to a decision. Or Dreckers, who was a buzzsaw. My words exactly. The dude was a buzzsaw. He keeps going. You know what I mean? He doesn't slow down. He may look from the outside look tired, but he probably doesn't feel tired to his opponent in there. I'm pretty sure he's putting some pressure on him. That's exactly what he did. And Robert began to wilt in the first round from what I saw. Well, he got his nose fixed now. He could breathe out of his nose. So for the longest time, the reason why he had his mouth open, he had no nose. So the nostrils are completely closed off. So he wouldn't look exhausted, slack-jotted. Always looks slack-jotted. But he also was, he would fight awkward too. I think it affected his cardio quite a bit. I think that's his style though, right? Yes, for sure. I would say that's his style. It is, but he used to get a little too over eager and he would like blitz, just run forward, which you can't do with a Whitaker. You can't do with Pajeta. You can't do with an elite guy. But he tightened all that up, man. And he specifically tightened all that up for the Whitaker fight. That was a very technical fight. Yeah. Someone broke it down on Instagram, one of those breakdown sites. I forget who it was, whether it was Lawrence Kenshin or one of the other ones. But they were talking about his use of the right hand, like stopping Whitaker and the right hook, stopping Whitaker as he was coming forward. And that Whitaker has this leap in style and that they had figured out the distance for that. And that's when we started putting it on him. It was very technical, man. What he did was, it was a very interesting fight. I'm going to have to find it. Because Whitaker is so fucking good, man. For him to beat him down like that, it's like, wow, you got to take that guy for real. You got to take that guy serious. What I saw Drake just do to Whitaker, I personally feel was the effect that I had on Vatori. Because I was in his face, putting pressure on him. I was hitting him too. I think that could be a bit of a difference. But I think the pressure, the fact that Robert had to stay on, you know what I mean? That does something to guys. Guys aren't used to being on the whole time, in their feet. Getting chased. Yeah, sprinting. It's like sprinting. It's an odd way to sprint. He can fucking crack too. So Drake is going to sprint in there. That's a good time. I'm going to keep that one. Well, it's going to be interesting to see what happens with him and Ansonia. Yeah. I mean, he's going to fight in September, right? So I don't know. I hear rumors that they're going to go with the Strychma fight. Well, I think that is happening now. I'm sorry. That is definitely happening now. I'm sorry. Because Strychma, they're in negotiations still though. Because I think Strychma wants more money. I think there's, I don't know. I hope they work it out. I hope you could fight. Well, I don't want to be Mr. Still Your Girl here, you know what I mean? I know. But shit, if... I was thinking that when you came out here. But, you know what I mean? Are you preparing for something like that? The possibility to something like that? Well, when I get back after this, my diet is going to change. I'm going to prepare for somebody to... How many weeks is Australia? September, 29? That's like five, six weeks, right? I think it's September 9th. It'll be just enough time for Jared Kaneneer to get it popping again. So that's what I'm preparing for. I'm preparing for the Stars to Align and me to go in there and win my title. Who knows what's going to happen? If Shawn is being difficult, you know what I'm saying? Mick, you know who to call. Dana, you know who to call. You know what I mean? Y'all know Lou. Y'all know first round. You know how we handle business. Y'all know I'm not difficult. You know what I mean? I think you guys pay me good. I'm not going to ask for too much extra to go to Sydney. I've never been there. I think my contract is something that we agreed upon prior to these events occurring. And I think we can make something happen. So that's what I'm going to be getting ready for. You know what I mean? Well, I definitely want to see you fight for the title for sure. Yeah. It's going to be a different thing. We all saw the first one and nobody was too entertained by that. Not especially me. So I've made the adjustments not only to make it more entertaining because I know that's what people want to be entertained. But do you have to balance that out in your head sometimes? Be entertaining or? I don't concern myself for being entertaining or anything like that. It's not as it's what you are. This from you are fortunately your style is very entertaining. So you don't have to worry about that. Well, this is coincidental, right? Right. Yeah. If anything, I'm entertaining myself because this is fun for me. I'm going in there having fun. You know what I mean? And this is something I tell people all the time. You know, I don't think of this as a job. It is a career and I do get paid. It is my livelihood. But I don't approach this as my job or anything like I have to go to work now. You know, this is something me fighting is only merely a part of my training. You know what I mean? It's like the test you take. You know what I mean? You know, every couple of weeks you take a test in school or you challenge yourself somehow. And that's that's for me. That's what this is. This is the challenge. Marvel Victoria is the challenge. Israel, the sign is the challenge. And I'm here to conquer these challenges. You know what I mean? That's a beautiful approach. So that's probably why you just getting better. That's why you keep getting it. It's a fantastic mindset for an elite fighter. Yeah. The mindset of constant growth. I'm always trying to learn. That's the only thing. That's the thing I love about it because I get to go into study. You know what I mean? Right. So something that I want to learn, something that I want to dissect and analyze and break down and not only do with my mind, but do with my body as well. That's that's something you can't really do a lot. You know what I'm saying? Operate a field of a field of thought with your mind and your body. Well, it's also very impressive and very inspirational to people that you're doing it like I think you're thirty nine now. You thirty nine. Thirty nine. You're getting better at an elite athlete's level. Like you're getting better at one of the most difficult jobs for a combat sport athlete. That's one of the hardest fucking jobs on earth in terms of like physical demands. And you're getting better at thirty nine. It's amazing. I've mitigated a lot of the wear and tear through my years. I didn't grow up, you know, jumping big heels on bicycles and shit like that or anything like that. On top of that, I find my body to be valuable. So I didn't like grow up destroying my body or anything like that. When I got into when I first when I finally started training, I was like twenty five years old in in Alaska. So I got into it relatively late. I didn't grow up doing martial arts or anything like that. So I wouldn't say that I regret it, but I would like it to be the other way around. I would have loved to have done martial arts as a child. Yeah, but it is what it is. You know, I think, though, I think one of the especially a guy like you that's maintained your your peak athleticism into your late 30s, you don't have the wear and tear that someone who started doing it when they were like 13, 14. But you know, by the time you're twenty five, twenty six, you got ten plus years of getting kicked and punched and taken down, your knees twisted and your neck cranked like everybody gets banged up within ten years. I mean, I had a friend who was twenty two when he has first nerve blockage where his his fucking arm wasn't working correctly because his nerves are getting pinched in his neck. Yeah. I mean, so he his neck was starting to get fucked when he was a young, young man. Yeah. So by the time you know, you enter into martial arts later in life, but you already mature man. And one of the things I think about like a big guy that cuts down is like your body thinks you're three hundred pounds still. You know what I'm saying? So but you have all the tendons of a guy who is three hundred pounds for a while. Yeah. But meanwhile, you know, you're you're competing at, you know, 210, 215. Yeah. I liken it to Goku training in hyperbaric chamber at Super Saiyan. I just want to be regular Super Saiyan all the time. So I hear let me just get heavy, train Super Saiyan. And then when I lose weight, it'll be like regular. Yeah. Well, you seem to have got it down to a science. It sucks when people don't make weight like this past weekend, Michelle Paredo. Yeah. And Wonder Boy, they canceled the fight. That's a bummer to me, man. That's such a bummer. Yeah. That dude's so big, though. He is big. He's gigantic. Yeah. That's a gigantic 170. He's fucking huge. So I could see it because Darren Till miss weight with Wonder Boy in the past. And Wonder Boy always felt like that was a factor. Yeah. That he came in heavy. I was going to sub for one of his fights. I think there were concerns either. I think it was visa issues, visa and weight issues. The Darren Till one? Yeah. Yeah. But man, it's interesting watching these guys come and go and come in with so much promise and it doesn't quite, you know, injuries. Go the way. Yeah. There's really Darren Till out a bunch of knee injuries. Yeah. Well, you know, the UFC is a promotion machine. So they sell the world a dream for each and every one of us. You know what I mean? So a lot of people out there in the world have this have this idea of me that, you know, be completely wrong. You know what I mean? So we all have these expectations. Everybody has these hopes and dreams and stuff like that. And us as far as especially with the mics in front of our faces are allowed to share ours. So everybody definitely believes us when we say what believes me when I say I'm going to be a champion one day. You know what I mean? I seriously believe myself when I say that. So but a very few of us are going to make it to that to that level. You know what I mean? A very few percentage of us are going to make it. So that's the reality of it, you know, and that's reality. I had already come to terms with when I first started this. So when I first started doing MMA, I already had a full time job, a good, comfortable job. You know what I mean? I was able to take care of my family. So I was good and I was able to go train. So I was happy. I just told myself I'm just going to go as far as I can go. You know what I mean? Pretty much make myself no promises. You know what I mean? Because I understand that I understand my ability and I had confidence in myself, which is why I did it in the first place. But I understand the reality of it. And I should be and I was blessed to have already have a full time job to be able to take care of myself because there's a lot of fighters. A lot of fighters I throw are broke trying to fight. You know, the majority of fighters are in broke situations trying to fight. So yeah, when I first when I was training, it wasn't my goal to be a UFC fighter. I just wanted to go as far as I can, learn as much as I can while I have this time here on earth. So this is as far as I've gotten. Well, you've gotten pretty fucking far. You've got a great approach, man. You get a great approach to life, a great approach to this this path that you're on to be a better martial artist and a better person like that. That's it's it's it's a fascinating approach. It's very samurai like, you know, I think it is. I do take I take for me, I like to take energies from all places and try to create this. I don't want to say character, but create this avatar and equip this avatar with all these different perks and stuff that I find admirable, that I find moral and things that's going to make me a bigger, stronger, better. What am I a human man, a man, a black man, if you want to use those labels and terms, you know what I mean? But for me being who I am. And that's a great way to think about it. Yeah. And not necessarily try to distinguish myself from any and everybody else. You know what I mean? Look to any and everybody else to see the potential that I have because we're all human. We all have the potential to do great and wonderful things or terrible and bad things. You know what I mean? I say I said, this is one thing I tell my children, my children, you know, we have the ability as humans, this is what makes us unique from any other species on this planet, that we have the ability to be an animal or we can be something better than that. We have the ability to be a demon or devil, or we can be a celestial or a god or a goddess you know what I mean? Not that we would physically embody our definitions of these things. These are just conceptualizations, but I think for me that allows me to take the trajectory of my life and point it to where I want. I want to ascend, you know what I mean? To use the word that has been so conceptualized to Godhood. And I realize that I'm not the Almighty, but I am living an aspect, I am generating a perspective, I am... So many different ways to put it. Living in experience, you know what I mean? That God can look back and say, yep, I've done this. You know what I mean? Maybe this has already been done, maybe it hasn't. But for me, I just want to go up, be better. I want to be able to levitate and shit like that, you know what I mean? Do things that nobody else does. Which is probably one of the reasons why I joined the army and do martial arts in the first place, because everybody where I'm from, where I grew up, definitely wasn't joining the army and nobody was doing martial arts that I knew of. So I guess I was just born a nonconformist, if you will. And I just like taking the route that I find best suits me. You feel me? Yeah, I do feel you. Yeah, no, that's a fascinating path. I like what you just said. I like what you just said a lot. I think if people could adopt that mindset and adopt that way of thinking, I think that would be very, very beneficial to a lot of people. It's very admirable. Sometimes when you hear someone's philosophy, the way they think about things and the way they approach their life, you go, oh, that's admirable. And that's what I just felt when you were saying that. I was like, that's very admirable. I like when someone has a very clear, disciplined sort of view of what their life is and what they're trying to accomplish. And you have, especially with this mindset that you have about constant growth, about looking at it like that, like you're always on the path. To approach that as a martial artist and then be a martial artist while you're still an elite fighter in the UFC, where you're still a martial artist. And I think that's why you're so good. I think that's why you keep getting better too. I'm a martial artist first. It's awesome. That's awesome. And I think that there was a lot of people that felt like that was kind of lost along with all the trash talking part of the sport, the pro wrestling style of the sport, which I think the first person to do it really good was Chelsan. But to me, it was funny, man. I loved it. So it was like I'm conflicted. I like it too. You know what I mean? Who didn't love it? He didn't love the Conor McGregor era, right? How could you not love it? Well, he came on the mic saying some wild shit. Some wild shit, right? And Jerry Stevens was talking shit to him and he goes, who the fuck is that guy? Yeah, right. He said so many iconic one liners that, oh, so yeah, I can understand it. I can understand the entertainment aspect of it. And I can understand the business aspect of the UFC catering to that because apparently that's more profitable. But I necessarily don't cater to that. You know what I mean? I keep it clean. Not that I keep it clean. I keep it real for lack of a better word. You just are you. You are you. No matter what. This is how you feel about the matchup. I'm excited. And my only goal is to be as honest with myself and in doing so I'll be honest with any and everybody else. You know what I mean? Yeah. So and that for me that keeps me in check because I don't want to have to tell you some crazy fucked up shit I didn't do. You know what I mean? Right, right, right. So I don't have to be like mama. Mama, you know, you know what I mean? Right, right, right. It was at one point where I was getting ready to leave a previous job of mine's. I'm not going to say which one specifically. But I was doing things that I shouldn't have been doing. And let's just say I got put in the position to where I can't even say it. Don't say it. I'll tell you after. I'll tell you after. I'll tell you after. Don't get sued Jared. Don't get sued. I won't get sued because no damages. Nothing. Nobody was hurt. Nothing happened or anything like that. But if you don't think you should say it, don't say it. But anyway, it was wild. And there was a moment where I was going to call my wife and be like, baby, I just want you to know I love you. But something happened and may make our future a little rainy. And if you, you know what I mean? Right. Just, you know, so. Well, I'm glad you didn't do whatever you were thinking about doing. Yeah, I was going to call her and then I just didn't call her too. And I just, I'll tell you about it after. Okay, tell me afterwards. Tell me afterwards. So when you were competing, you first start competing in Alaska. How did you wound up in Arizona? Like what was the path to get down there? Like how many years in were you? Well, I was training from, I began competing in 2011 and I moved to Phoenix in 2017. And on our team, Joe Murphy and Lohan Murphy. Lohan Murphy is in UFC. Joe Murphy, we're all familiar with. Some of us should be familiar with that pair. They are my first, some of my first training partners. Joe's a really good friend of mine. I love that guy. It's my guy. I love him. And I love Lohan too. Some of my first training partners. But they had moved, Lohan, they had moved to Florida. Joe's in the Air Force, went from Florida to Texas and eventually landed in Phoenix early 2010s. And when they came back to visit in Alaska, they told me, hey, we're in the lab. You know what I mean? They have a really good program there. I think you can go there and really be good. You know what I mean? As opposed to staying up here in Alaska. You know what I'm saying? If you want to take your MMA career to the next level, the MMA lab can get you there. And at that time, I was just now getting signed with the UFC. I was 7-0 as a heavyweight in Alaska. I fought my last fight January 2014. I had my first fight in the UFC January 2015. So a year later, I had my first fight. So in the summertime, fall time, I was getting managers, getting in with the UFC. And in contact with them, they said, come on down. You can stay with us for a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Do your camp here and go from there. And I went down to the camp and got my toes wet, as they say. And I really like the temperature of the water. You feel me? It was a two month camp. I did my debut. You remember that card. It was Jones Cormier 1. And the first fought in Vegas. So I fought Sean Jordan on that card. And those who don't know Sean Jordan, I was lucky in my heavyweight career in the UFC. I didn't get to fight any of these 6'4\", 6'5\", Giants, Behemoths. Sean Jordan was like 5'10\", 5'11\". He was a crazy athlete. But he was a crazy athlete. He would do backflips after all of his wins and knockouts and stuff. Did he stop Derek Lewis with a hook kick? After he stopped me in the first round, he stopped Derek Lewis with a hook kick. That dude was a freak athlete. That was his next fight because I was watching. I was like, let's see how this guy got. Because I be watching. See how guys do after we meet and the guy win or lose. He was a freak athlete. He was. He holds a bench press or a squad or deadlift record, some way lifting record at LSU. And he played for LSU. I think it was a fullback for them when they won the championship way back when. When you see a dude who's built like the Hulk and he does a backflip, you're like, what the fuck, man? Yeah. He's built like a tank. He's built like a tank, like the Hulk. For real. When you see that guy do a backflip, you're like, that's a fucking athlete. That's a lot of weight to throw around there like that. So yeah, he knocked me out in the first round. TKO. He didn't knock me out. It was a TKO. Did you already know at that time you were going to go down at least a light heavyweight? Not at that time. You thought you were going to fight as a heavyweight. I thought I was going to win this fight and make millions of dollars and quit my job. And I get you just fighting and training now. So that wasn't the reality of it. I lost the fight and went back to Alaska. That was early 2015. So I spent another two years up there, you know what I mean? Doing my career. I fought again in heavyweight. I'm sorry, let me get on this mic. I fought again in heavyweight and won that one. That's the fight I won in Croatia. That was my last fight in heavyweight. And interestingly enough, on that fight, that fight in Croatia, there was like four or five other heavyweights on that card. And all those heavyweights are the guys who look at it and say, oh, that dude, that's the man. You know what I mean? It was Francis Nganu. Everybody knows him. And Curtis Blaise was on that card. It was Derrick Lewis and Gabriel Gonzaga. Ben Rothwell, he fought. Who did Ben Rothwell fight? Did he fight Junior Dos Santos? I think he fought Junior Dos Santos. But those are just three behemoths, four, six behemoths of men. Yeah. Jan Blaowicz was on that card. I didn't even know that. Curtis Blaise, Francis Nganu. Timothy Johnson, Martin Tabora. Yeah. Interesting. So, all these big dudes was on this card. I'm standing next to them, walking next to them. I went by knockout in the first round, so I'm a big dog, too. You know what I mean? But you started thinking. I started thinking, not that I was afraid of any of these fools, but for the second time in my career, if I want to be able to compete and give myself as best a chance as possible to make this career work, when I see guys like Jon Jones and Francis Nganu, it was Kane Velasquez at the time, you know what I mean? Who I was getting prepared for. That's a guy, when I did my training, coming up, I was looking at him. I got to get ready for that guy. That guy had Cardi O. That's another aspect of my training right there. Cardio Kane, that's what they call him. So that's why my conditioning is where it is now, because that's one thing I focused on early on in my career. So huge. Yeah. It's so huge. Having a giant gas tank. Oh yeah. That's the last place you want to be. I always talk about prime time BJ Penn. When BJ Penn was at his best, he was training with Marv Marinovich. Marv Marinovich is just, I don't want to paraphrase, I don't want to fuck this up, but I'm pretty sure their philosophy was, it's more important for strength and conditioning for an elite fighter than even fight training. Yeah, sure, it's water, and there's filter water in that, too. So their philosophy was they would get BJ to have the most insane gas tank. He already knows how to fight. They're like, just do your drills or whatever you want to do, but the most important part of your day is plyometrics. We're going to give you the most insane ability. So you do eight weeks of this. By the time that fight comes, you'll be a totally different kind of human. With a crazy gas tank, and a crazy ability to change distances, to change positions, move back and forth. All the plyometrics shit they did in box jumping shit. That was all the work they did. Everything was high intensity, tabbatas, and all these different endurance work, and all these different things that they would do for explosivity, and strength and conditioning that's just purely for your ability to just generate fast twitch muscle fibers and throw them into action from fighting. He was a beast during that time, man. God. I dare say he was training with one of my training partners, Rob Emerson. Yes. Rob Emerson brought a whole bunch of good stuff he did working with BJ and his team. He's brought it over. He always has us doing explosive stuff. You know what I mean? It's always plyometric oriented type stuff with him. It's fascinating stuff, man. It's fascinating stuff because there's so many different philosophies. Then George St. Pierre, when he was at his best, he didn't do any strength and conditioning. He said he just wanted to work on efficiency and fight training. So he was just constantly training fight specific stuff. He didn't do any of the gymnastics stuff either. He picked that up later. When he got to a certain point in his career, he was incorporating gymnastics at one point in time. But I think towards the end, maybe he did a little bit of that still, but I think towards the end when we had this conversation on the podcast, he was saying that he doesn't do any of the shit that he did when he first started out. He was doing box jumps and all this crazy shit and cleans and presses. Traditional shit, yeah. Traditional shit that you see in the Countdown show. Gets excited. Gets you hyped up. But he stopped doing that, and he was just concentrating on efficiency. So it was just all technique. Well, that makes perfect sense, especially when you become a person like GSP. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I'm saying there's two totally different schools of thought there, right? There's the BJ Penn School of Thought under Marvin Rendovich, where it's all strength and conditioning. You already know how to fight. Just get yourself to this insane gas tank. And then there's the George St. Pierre, where it's all fight specific stuff. You're fight drilling, wrestling, fight drilling, takedowns, fight drilling, jujitsu, fight drilling, stand up. Everything's fight. Yeah. It's fight, technique. Well, I guess that approach can be attributed to the person, right? Right. GSP is more of the martial artist. You know what I mean? The more the traditional martial. He's a karate. You're right. Yeah, BJ's a real martial artist too. But he's a jujitsu guy though. Yeah. Jujitsu martial artists are different from traditional karate martial artists. That's true. You know what I mean? Sure. So I would say that could be attributed to their training style. I would say BJ Penn, he's from Hawaii. I think you got some dogs out there. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. So I would say he's got more of a dog in him than BJ would carry around with. Then GSP would carry around. I'm not saying GSP got a dog in him. Ain't got it in him. I know what you're saying. Like BJ will fight you in the street. Yes, exactly. You know what I'm saying? Yes, exactly. I think that could be attributed to the character of the person doing the work and the coaches and the corner men around you and stuff like that. I mean it's also you, the gas tank wouldn't do any good if BJ didn't have spectacular technique already. Right. That's the thing. You have spectacular technique. Yeah. Like his strike, he was only one of the first Jujitsu guys who was striking. It was like fucking world class. And if he got you to the ground, he kind of won the Mundiales three years into Jujitsu. That's nuts. The what now? The Mundiales, the world championships. Okay. BJ won the world championships three years into Jujitsu. Three years consecutive. Yeah. He got his black belt in three years, entered the Mundiales and won. Three years in. Okay. Obsessed. Training every day. Three years in. Oh, okay. So he's a white belt and then three years later he's a black belt and he wins Mundiales. Okay. That's how talented BJ Penn was. Wow. BJ Penn was a phenom. He was a phenom. Damn. I just got my brown belt after being a purple belt for like seven years. I was a brown belt for eight years. Eight years? Eight years. I wasn't consistent enough. Yeah. God, I wish they could just fix injuries, all of them. So you'd never have to worry about them again. Like a hundred percent just fucking. I would do Jujitsu until I died. I'd be like Iliogracy on those mats. That dude was rolling when he was in his nineties. That's my plan, man. Yeah. Yeah. People keep, I mean, everybody talks about 30 years old, 39 years old. First of all, I said I'm level 39. I'm a level 39. Jerry Cannon. I'm a level 39 killer gorilla. I'm a level 39 badass. So first and foremost, I'm a level 39. 39 years of experience in life. Yeah, exactly. And when I see myself as 60, 65, I see myself big chiseled, jacked, gray beard, gray afro with a battle ax in one hand. You know what I mean? Ready to fuck up anybody who's ready to step foot. You know what I mean? It's for the cross that threshold. Yeah. So that's how I envision myself. You know, so I don't see 39 the same way as most people see 39. You know what I mean? I do know what you mean. So I want to be 120 something years old. You know what I mean? Yeah. Finally getting on the dance floor because I don't dance now. But it's interesting. It'll be something new when I'm old. It's interesting elite athletes that are able to compete like at a higher age, they almost all have one thing in common, extreme discipline, extremely like Bernard Hopkins, one of the most disciplined guys ever in boxing, never got out of shape, never ate bad, always ate clean, always ate organic, never drank, never smoked, never fucked around, never fucked around and competed deep, deep into his 40s at a world-class level. I think he beat his last world champion when he was, I think he was 50. 50. 50. Crazy. He competed 51 and then he lost right there. Yeah. Joe Smith Jr. knocked him out. Knocked him out of the ring. It was horrible. Out of the ring, yeah. Horrible because he fell on his head. He fell right on his head. Yeah, that was horrible. That's so bad for you. Yeah. That's worse even than the knockout because a lot of the, he means he was getting clipped but the ropes were loose and he just went right through the ropes. It was a shitty job by whoever put together that fucking ring for a world championship fight with a guy like Bernard Hopkins to go through the ropes like that. And did not have any protection for the athletes below the ropes, just concrete. That's crazy. That's crazy. At the very least, they should have wrestling mats all around the base in case of the worst case scenario. Someone falls out of the ring. Yeah. Man, to be, it's funny you mentioned, I would like them to have wrestling mats inside the ring. He thinks that would be better than the canvas. Yeah, I don't like the canvas. The canvas gets slippery, especially when you put the logos on it. You're right. Last fight, I didn't slip. I had pretty good foot in my last fight, but I had made some adjustments. But when I fought Strickland and when I fought out of the Sun, it was a few times when I was slipping, I was getting ready to go. And it's the logos because they get wet. It was a logo I slipped on, but even the canvas in itself. You have to wet it and then step on your feet. Why do you think they continue to use canvas? Because canvas also fucks your skin up. I would say because of the logos. I would say so they can have logos on it. Can't you do logos on MMA mats? I don't think they will come off a whole lot easier. Why don't they have? Due to friction. Imagine if they had, instead of like, you want to have no seams though, right? You can't have a seam. I mean, there are seams on the canvas. Yeah, there's so seams. There's like a seam everywhere, two, two and a half, three feet, there's a seam. But you can't have like the Tommy mats where they're like stuck together. You can't have the possibility of a toe getting in a crack. That's what I was thinking like a wrestling mat. Maybe not as thick as those thick ones. Right, but not the surface of a wrestling mat because they're wearing shoes. You want the surface of like the Tommy mats where you have that texture to it. So you dig in. Because I remember we switched to a smooth mat at one time in my gym, my old studio, and I couldn't use it because as soon as I got sweaty, every time I went to throw a kick, I'm slipping all over the place. This sucks. And that's another reason why they use the canvas because it's absorbent. Right. It does absorbent, but if your feet are dry, it's real slippery. And if they do get the logos, the logos, I don't know how they apply them, but if they're just like, what's that shit when you do with the iron? What's that called? Jamie, do you know what I'm talking about? Like a heat transfer. What is it called though? These two iron on? Whatever. So if you get like a cheap t-shirt from someone and it's real thick, like this is a nice t-shirt. There's not so much material that's thick. If you have that on a canvas, or it's real thick, that's just not going to, water's not going to go through there. It's going to puddle up on that. Right. And you go whoop. This is going to be, yeah, right on top of it. And if you lose a fight or get an injury just specifically because of that, that's a shame. That's a shame. It feels like to me, there's a better way. I mean, how many people are buying something because they see someone get the fuck beaten up on top of it? Yeah. They've seen those, right? They got those cards that have pieces of the mats in them to commemorate the event. That makes sense, actually, if you're a big fan. And also it does make sense that people find out about products. I just wish there was a way to do it where it didn't fuck with the performance. Speaking of shirts, you got a Jared Kananir merch. Yes. Nice. I was going to give it to you for one of my fights, but I don't think you were there. That's a perfect example. Like, do you see how shiny that is? There's no way water's getting through that. Right. If that was on a canvas, that would suck. It would definitely. But how do they do it on a canvas? I would imagine they've thought about this. So I'm sure this one was like they put like a press on it with this one. Right. If the canvas, they just do dye. Yeah. Can't they just do it with dye? Yeah. Let me give my shout out here real quick. Go ahead. Sorry. Shout out to Nelson for hicking me up. He gave me, hicked me up with the artwork for this shirt. Right? And I put it on a shirt. So I really like this one. And what's the website where people can buy these? Thank you very much. You don't know? I don't know. It's on the link in my bio. Do you have a personal website? It's a link in my bio and it links it to a square. There you go. Kill a gorilla. Merchandise. Okay. Beautiful. Okay. It's in your Instagram. There you go. Bam. Nice. This one is not on sale yet. Right. When's it going to be on sale? When's it going to be on sale? Probably soon after this podcast releases. All right. Good. Yes. I have my homebody. You're wearing it. You can just show people. Oh, there you go. There it is. Yeah. So I'm giving you this one. Oh, thank you very much. Thank you. And this one's actually a little bit different. It's not as thick. The thing on top is in its thick as well. Yeah, it's printed differently. Well, the other one's like a graphic image. Yeah. But this one is exactly what I'm talking about. Like this kind of stuff. If this is, if sweat hits this and you have to move your feet around on it, you got to slide all over. Absolutely. Yeah. Did you ever compete in the crazy days where people were allowed to wear wrestling shoes where they, was that all phased out by the time you were in? No, my first fight was in 2011. Ah, there you go. So that was, I was way out of that. I remember when dudes wore wrestling shoes all the time. Yeah. I mean, there's some thing used, I'm sure, right? Some local promotion that- I wonder. That ain't going to like adhere to, strictly adhere to UFC standard of martial arts, right? That seems so dangerous though. Wrestling shoes are like a head kick with wrestling shoes. Like if the foot goes in the eye. It's kind of a weapon. Or submissions. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like a lot of folks and shit for the person who's wearing them. Oh wrestling, that's a huge- Huge factor. Yeah, huge factor. That grip and traction. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's gigantic, both in defense and offense. Yeah. Imagine somebody wearing wrestling shoes against DC, right? Right. Or could be, they're getting taken down right off the top. It's also the thing about generating power in punches. Like you get more traction. That grip, yeah. Yeah, you're really digging in with your feet. Now I've injured my toes naturally from kicks or whatever. And I've had to wear wrestling shoes for training. Now one thing wearing wrestling shoes for me has done is helped sort of increase, make better, enhance my footwork, right? It makes me be more cognizant of how I'm placing my feet as opposed to dragging my feet across the mat or the surface of whatever surface I'm moving on. Oh because there's traction in the bottom of it? Yeah. So you can't slide as easily? Interesting. So I have to use precise footwork, precise foot placement. Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. And I actually use that as a teaching technique when I teach a class at the lab Saturdays at 10 p.m. at the MMA lab. And that's one of the things, and an analogy that I use was imagine anybody who's seen the Kung Fu Panda movie or any old Kung Fu movie where they have those training setups where there's a bunch of logs standing on in and they just have like that small two, three inch surface, round surface to stand on to move around on and do all these Kung Fu training and maneuvers and shit on. Kung Fu Panda is the one that comes to mind big time for me. But that would facilitate precise foot placement, precise footwork. You have to place your foot in a precise position and of course maneuver your body in accordance but it all starts with the feet. So that's one thing, that's a huge thing that I ingrained in myself is footwork. And where are you taking the footwork from specifically? Where are you learning it from? Self-talk. Self-talk. Self-educated. Just what you like, things that work for you when you're sparring and fighting. Things that I find that are effective, things that I find that I can find that are accessible for me, you know what I mean? Things that I know work. I watch, for me I'm like Rogue, you know what I mean? Rogue from the X-Men. I see something and I can imitate it, you know what I mean? Or like Kakashi, yeah, I'm an anime guy too. Okay, there you go. I'm a copy ninja. I'll see something and I can do that shit. Do you know how much it bums out some dudes that are like killers or anime nerds? Yeah, well, you know, those guys are missing out, right? They're missing out if you enjoy it. I wouldn't say I'm an anime nerd because there's a lot of anime that I don't watch, that I can't watch. Speaking of footwork, did you watch the Terrence Crawford Earl Spence Jr. fight? Yes, I did. Yes, I did. And I just saw so many different levels in both fighters, but mostly in Terrence Crawford. I saw him change his tempo, change his approach to the fight, you know what I mean? Make those adjustments. And the ability to land hard shots in so tight. In tight, crazy, really tight positions. And so accurate, just inches away from him when he's landing these right hooks. Oh my God, what a performance. Yeah. What a performance. Beautiful. Amazing. We see it there. There's one of the knockdowns. Yeah, boxing is one of the sports that I continue to watch after getting into MMA. And a lot of people, for whatever reason, are sort of trying to come up with reasons why Earl Spence didn't perform as well as they thought he was going to. But I think you just have to say Terrence Crawford is that good. I think he's just that good. I think we found that. It doesn't mean that Earl Spence isn't amazing. He is. But I think Terrence Crawford, I think you're looking at an all-time great. I really do. He's in my opinion the best switch hitter in boxing since Marvin Hagler. And he might be better. He's so good, man. He's so good. He's so good. And he's going to fight. I think Boots Ennis is his mandatory. Oh, really? Yeah, which is an amazing fight. That's an amazing fight. See you pull up some Boots Ennis because this dude's movement is next level. And he's another one that is a brilliant switch hitter. Yes, Terrence Boots Ennis. They have to fight him soon if he plans on keeping the title. Go to a video of Boots Ennis because that dude highlights. That dude is phenomenal. He's fantastic. When you watch him fight, man, he's so precise. He really is. It's so slick. He's really, really good. And he's also undefeated. I mean, come on, son. This dude did. This is early on in his career. I mean, from the moment people first started seeing this guy fight, they're like, this guy is super talented. Something special. And so that's a big test, man. This guy is good. Like World Championship good. Dude, I mean, is he ready for Terrence Crawford? I don't know. We're going to find out. And it's going to be interesting. Go like a little further up ahead in his highlights. I mean, look at that movement. Look at that. Oh, play that again. Play that again. Come on, son. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. I mean, that head movement is a thing of beauty. And to do that while you're wearing shorts like that. Yeah, you know, you know, do film himself. He wears shows like that fight like that too. That right hand, he just landed. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. So talented. So that's interesting. That's very interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I like watching guys like this, you know, because I pick up so much just from watching fights like these. Yeah. And I'll watch a fight and I'll go back and watch around like three, four times. I'll watch a certain part of the round like, damn, you see that technique? And then I go back and watch the whole round. And then I maybe watch around in front of that to see if there was something like a tale that the fighter may have seen. So do you watch all kinds of things? Do you watch like kickboxing? Do you watch other? Anything combat, anything combat related. You know what I mean? It can even be, you know, I wouldn't say the gimmicky stuff, but the less conventional MMA stuff. You feel me? So what kind of stuff? Like a Capoeira. Oh, okay. You know what I mean? I study Capoeira and I have a few what I call my $50,000 moves that are Capoeira based. That's funny. Yeah. Fight night bonus. Exactly. If I break them out in a fight, if I land, you know what I mean? These moves are pretty much finishing moves. Yeah. You know what I mean? If I land this in the fight, I'm pretty much going to guarantee a bonus. So Capoeira is a risky martial art though. But it can work. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I've seen the work. How about like that San Chai, like cartwheel kick. That shit works. He pulls that off all the time on people. He kicks people in the face with that. It's unorthodox stuff sometimes you don't see coming. It can work. And that's a lot, a lot of force behind those kicks. And I would also imagine that learning Capoeira would be just like when George C.P.A. got really into gymnastics. It would help your athleticism. Yeah. I've made that same correlation. So yeah, it really does. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. Just like yoga does. Just like anything that's requiring you to flip your body around like that and throw kicks into the air. Yeah. That's got to be good for everything. Or just be able to hold your weight up. Yeah. On the ground and stuff like that. Yeah. So. So are you in kind of like a holding pattern right now just to see what happens with Australia whether or not they sign Strickland and have they contacted you and said, hey, Jared. They said anything to me. So maybe after this podcast. I would hope so. It's good timing. I would hope so. Right. Like I told them, I know I'm here. I'm waiting. I'm ready. Well, I personally hope that they, this Strickland thing gets worked out because I think that's an interesting fight and I would like to see you fight whoever wins that fight. Yeah. And I think that you're, you know, you're right in line, man. And it's a real fun time for the division. There's so much talent in that division. With Trekker's Du Pussy just beating Robert Riddiker like that. And Riddiker was always the guy that was like right below Adesanya and like creeping up on him. Like in the last fight, he got closer. Like it was a unanimous decision loss, but he had his moments in that fight. It was a much, much, much better performance in his first fight where he got taken out quick. Yeah. So everybody was thinking that that's the guy. Now you watch Trekker's Du Pussy beat him down. You're like, wow. Yeah. It's going to open some eyes. Bring some, definitely bring a lot of attention, a lot more attention back to the, maybe the middleweight division after what he did that was a couple of weeks ago. This is so much talent now. So much talent in the sport. There's these guys that are just jumping in that are UFC debuts and you're watching them fight. Like that guy looks like a world-class contender. Yeah. See when I see stuff like that, right? I'm like, yes, they look good, especially in the first round. Right. Don't we all look good in the first round? Right. So yeah. And on top of that, I think having your fighting debut fights is completely different from fighting top five, top 10 fighters. You know what I mean? Yeah. Of course. So those, like even with, there's so many different examples. Johnny Walker is a big example. He came in wild, guns are blazing. He was successful until he got to that top level and realized, let me settle down a little bit. These men are older up here. These are some grown men up here. You can't just come wild. No, you can't. It might work. Yeah. I mean, it works on a lot of people. Yeah, but you can't. It doesn't always work. But at the top level, you can't take those risks. You don't want to, you don't want to be taking those type of risks. You want to take risks. Yeah. But those type of risks are sort of, you don't have to take that type of risk. You know what I mean? The thing is in that flashy style where he's taking those risks, occasionally he has like the most insane knockouts because the guy generates crazy power. Yeah. That Khalil Rauchery knockout, that elbow from in tight, another like vote for elbows there. Yeah. Because that was insane. That was nasty. His power is crazy. When he, which was his last fight? Fuck. Who did he just fight? God damn it. It's at the tip of my tongue. Fuck. Fuck. I hate when this happens. Anyway, he won by knockout. He's so big too. He looks like he should be a heavyweight. He's another guy. He's just tall. He's just 205. He's enormous. And that's one of the reasons why I was like here, man, let me go down the middle way too because everybody that I was fighting was like six fours, six two, six three. I'm like, damn, I thought. Paul Craig. That's who it was. That's what it was. Why can't I remember that? Yeah, he was Paul Craig was grabbing a single. He was beating him up, cailing him. Oh, and start. When he started hammerfist and standing. Yeah. Crazy. He could generate that kind of power. Yeah. But yeah, right. I would imagine. I would imagine a world beater right out of the gate. But what happens when he fights the more elite guys? But I think he probably does capoeira, right? I would assume he moves around. Yeah, he could do that stuff. I'm sure he's. He's probably done it for sure. You know? I mean, he's able to generate that was his whole body. He was able to generate that generate power for that. Yeah. For that position. So. But when you get to a level like Jamal Hill, that's not. Yeah, you can't. You don't want to be doing that. You don't wild shit with that guy. If you want to take risks. Right. I mean, by all means, do your thing. You know what I mean? But it's not a high percentage. Yes. Yeah. The percentage. Yes. The margin of error goes down drastically. Yeah. Yeah. So that's one thing I've realized, especially after fighting. Fighting Robert, fighting Kelvin and Israel. Right. That the margin of error is just is much finer up here. So not only do I have to be better, but I even have to get get better at getting better. You know what I mean? Think about things through a microscope. I got to just look at these techniques through a microscope. You know what I'm saying? There's so much that goes on when you extend for a punch or when you step to move or step to fender so much, so much of an effect that it has not only on my position, but the way my opponent is going to respond and maybe you may reposition himself. Do you write down things that you've learned? I don't really write down things. I just keep them in your head. I just keep them in my head, fill it with my being, my vessel. Sometimes rarely though will I write some things down. Like if I'm in camp and I need to keep this stuff on my mind. If it's something that I'm like, I need to just keep this on my mind as long as I can keep it conscious, I'll do it. So without having my coach to tell me, this is what we got to do. This is what we got to do. But it's hard. This is not enough time to train everything, not enough time to get good everywhere. Right. Not enough time to recover from all the workouts. Nothing mentioned to that, right? Yeah. Do you do anything unique for your recovery? I do have a punch. Cold plunge. Yep. I use a cold plunge. Epsom salt. I stretch. Stretching is huge, especially post workout. I think that is one of the bigger things, one of the more prominent things that I do to help with my recovery. I get massages. Other than that, nothing else really. When do you do the cold? Especially during fight camps. Do you do it after workouts? I would do it after workouts. But I also know the benefits of doing it first thing when you wake up. You know what I mean? I just hadn't gotten that far in my journey with this cold plunge yet. But I definitely love using it prior to this fight. Help me out because when I got to the PI and used the plunge there, it was very nice having the hot tub right next to the plunge so I can go out of one and into the other and use that one extreme to the next for some mental training. You know what I mean? I felt great. They got a bitch ass cold plunge at the PI. You said a bitch ass cold plunge? It's a bitch ass cold plunge. What was it say? I think it was like 40. It's just like 50 degrees. I thought it was like 45 or something. Is it 45? It felt colder than mine. I got a bitch. That should be 34. Well, I said my cold plunge to bitch then. Yeah, don't do it. I'm still giving you on it cold. I'm incrementing my weight down. I'm making my weight down. The thing is once you start doing it at 34, you'll get used to it. You will get used to it. You'll get used to it. Yeah. Exactly. That's how I felt. I hear about people cold plunging at 52 degrees and they shut the fuck up. Don't even hear that. Don't ask me what mine is. You're lukewarm water plunging. So what do you do yours at? 34. 34? Yeah. Yeah. For how long? It sucks. Yeah. Well, sometimes too. Sometimes what I'll do is I'll do it before the workout and then after the workout, I'll do a sauna session and then after the sauna, I'll go back in for a few minutes. You go before your workout? Yeah, I do it in the morning first thing. Okay. And then I work out and I use the, because I'm in the cold for so long, for three minutes and I'm freezing when I get out, I do a lot of my working out outside. I'll do like a body weight stuff, like pushups and you know. Okay, some plows. Body weight squats and stuff like that, pulling the sled. I'll do that outside. Nice. I'm going to get inside and do the rest of the shit. Okay. But I think there's something to cool your body down and then making your body reheat back up. That's supposed to be like real beneficial with testosterone levels. And there's like this, I think it's a Japanese study about that. A lot of people have used that. It just feels good too. It just wakes you up first thing in the morning. I get in that motherfucker and I don't want to be in there. I'm like, God damn it. But I think everybody should do something like that. Just a little something like that. Just a little something for yourself. I think my closest experience to that was in the Army. Having to wake up and it's cold as shit outside and you're freezing balls sitting in formation and then you start running and it's like, oh finally. At first you're a little, you know, creaky-dee, crackly a little bit and then you loosen up and you get that runner's high or some shit like that or you get a good dress art and call canes to pump you up, motivate you with some shit like that. Yeah. Yeah, I forget all about the cold then. People just have to be active. Like if you really think it sucks to be outside cold weather, guess what? Once you start hiking, you start sweating. That's the thing if you go hunting. One of the things about it is like layering correctly. You want to actually be a little cold while you're hiking because if you're not, you're going to heat up. You want to be a little cold. Yeah. You want to have a minimal amount of layers on it because if you have a lot of layers on it, you have to stop, take them off. Now you're wet. You know, unless you're wearing merino wool or some top notch synthetics, it sucks bad if you're sweaty and it's cold out. That sucks. Yeah. That's how a lot of people get really fucked up. Oh man. You know what cold? I remember when I moved to Alaska the first time I had to do this learn to return training for my job, right? Because we would fly out to remote places and work on traffic control equipment. So just in case some shit happened, be like a reenactment of a gray with that movie Gray with the wolves and was it Liam Neeson had to fight off the wolves? Yeah. It'd be something like that. The teacher had to survive. You know what I mean? And I was not prepared for this class, bro. It was wintertime. So it was snow all over the damn place in Anchorage, Alaska. And it took us to some BLM land, some BLM land. And I had on steel toe boots, right? You used to be wearing steel toe boots out in the cold. So that's a big no-no right there. Gets colder because the steel gets cold. Yeah, the steel gets cold and you'll lose toes like that. I didn't wear layers. I had on steel toe boots, some jeans, a button-up polo shirt. Oh no. And a card heart jacket. No way. That's it. And I think I had a beanie. I had a beanie on my head. Oh my God, dude. But that was it, right? And we were supposed to go out there in the middle of the wilderness to simulate a fucking plane crash. And luckily, I lost a shoe. Luckily, I lost a shoe. They taught us how to make a makeshift shoe out of an airplane seat cushion. And the airplane seat cushion was way more comfortable than the other steel toe boot that I didn't lose. And it was warmer. You know what I mean? How'd you lose a boot? Airplane crash simulated situation. Oh, I see. I see. Sorry. And it was able to stay on top of the snow a lot better than my boot was. So needless to say, I was not prepared to live in Alaska. And it was slow going at first because I didn't have money to buy all the gear you need to live in the cold weather environment. So I'm up there and I'm going outside clearing snow off of my vehicle in freaking flip-flops, gym shorts and a T-shirt. Well, a jacket, of course, because I can have jackets. Oh, no. Yeah, I wasn't prepared to live up there first. Which part of Alaska were you in? Anchorage. Anchorage. Did you see a lot of moose and bears and shit? You did see moose. I think I saw bear like three or four times while I was up there in town. Grizzly bear? No, no grizzly bears. Black bears. Black bears. No, we don't see grizzly bear in town. Jesus. Thank God for that. Thank God. So, yeah. I had a friend who lives in BC, like way up in BC, and he had to shoot a bear from like three feet away. What? A brown bear? A brown bear that was trying to get into a cabin. He was in a cabin? Yeah. And he had to shoot through the window or what? No, I think the thing was coming through the door and he had to open the door and shoot it in the head. Oh. What did he shoot you with? A rifle, I believe. Okay. I forget the story totally. He told me a while ago. He's had multiple encounters with bears up there. There's like the high areas of when you get up into BC into real heavily wooded areas. They have real grizzly problems. There's a lot of grizzly bears up there. And they recently made it illegal to hunt them. You can hunt black bear still, but you can't hunt grizzly bears anymore because the people that live in the city voted it out. So the people that live in Vancouver are like, oh, don't kill the grizzly bears. Because they're really bears. And the people that are up there are like, hey, you got to kill them or there's going to be too many of them. What are we doing? You got to manage their population. They come into town and sometimes they fucking open up people's cabins. That's scary stuff, man. Scary stuff. There was a video recently, somebody put me onto of this grizzly bear that tears open this cabin and pulls out like a leg of a moose and is dragging it out. But it went through the wall of this cabin. They're so strong. They just tore the wall apart. They tore a hole through the wall and it smelled the meat through there. And it's like, I got to get through this fucking wall and got a... So the bear was motivated then, to say the least. To scary animals that live around. I just came from Alaska and we were up there. We went camping, stayed in the camper for a little bit. There was... Where were we? There wasn't... No, this isn't a bear scare. It was a tsunami scare, is what it was. Oh, Jesus. But they cleared. They gave us all clear. What happens? You get like a horn blows off or something? Well, we were in the camper right there on the beach. And then on your phones, you get an alert, just like an Amber alert or something like that. On your phones, you get an alert saying, tsunami warning for this area. You know what I mean? Get to high ground. Shit like that. So we packed up our stuff and we had to leave. You can look on the internet and see where the effects, where places are actually affecting. And it wasn't us. It was just really close to it, but they hit the whole area. Whoo, tsunami scared the fuck out of me. When I lived in California, I was always worried that a big one was going to hit and a tsunami was going to wash over the whole city. Yeah. I was always worried about that. Yeah. But I start telling a story because we went up to Alaska, was it a couple of weeks ago? But like a few days before we went to Alaska, I heard about this black bear, pulled his man out of his truck and killed him. Yeah. Out of his tent and killed him. I was in Arizona. So I'm in Arizona and I hear about this and we're about to go to Alaska. In the camp, right? It came right in the camp. Yeah, the bear came right in the camp, pulled him into a brush and mauled him, killed him. And so I'm worried because the last time I went to Alaska, we was in the camper. There was a bear come through town. I could see the bear running in the distance and shit. It was a little black bear, but still. So I'm like, you know how black people are. We don't play around in the wilderness and shit, man. We don't do bears and bobcats and stuff like that. Did you have a gun or anything on you? The last time we had a gun, but not this last time we went, we didn't have a gun. But the time we saw the bear, we had a gun and some bear mace and stuff like that. So this time we had some bear spray, but not no gun. I only saw a grizzly bear one time in the wild. When you were hunting? Yeah. They look at you so different. A black bear looks at you like, who are you? Are you going to hurt me? What are you doing here? What are you? Are you a person? Maybe they never seen a person before. They're like, what is this? A grizzly bear looks at you like this. Can I eat you? Can I eat you? Like these cold, dark eyes, man. The eyes just are feelingless. You realize that the primal energy of this killing machine is locked on you. A real live grizzly bear in the wild. It wasn't a big one either. The one that I saw was only like six feet tall. Small. But they know. But a young bear. They know. Right away, looking at me. They'll know when they're being that. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a different sort of wiring, I guess. Like polar bears. Yeah. I would hear stories because I worked up there. We would go to local, not local, remote areas to work on airfields and shit. And further north you get, you can come into encounters. And I've heard stories. One of the guys who I work with was up in Barrow, which is way up North Alaska. And he was working on his thing. And out in the distance, way out in the distance with the binoculars, because they're always watching. There's a polar bear out there. You know what I mean? And so they have to keep an eye on this thing. And they just notice his bear is getting closer and closer. So this bear is freaking honing in on them. You know, these bears can see, lift his nose and then put his nose down, start coming closer and closer. And they notice his bears hunt them. So they have to abort mission and leave because these bears will break down the door and get whatever they want. You know what I mean? They hunt anything. Yeah. They hunt everything. Everybody. Yeah. Yeah. We don't mess around with polar bears and stuff when you're on the job at least. I don't know what people do on the outside of the job, but I don't mess around with polar bears, period. A friend of mine is a veterinarian. He was explaining how when they work with like little baby polar bears, he goes, they're like the predator right out of the womb. They're like the alien, you know, from the way they're like, ahh. Like right out of the womb. He's looking at these little cute killers. Damn. Yeah. Like polar bears don't eat anything but meat. There's no vegetables out there. There's no vegetables out there. There's no fucking blueberries. We're lucky that these, that's like the thing about salmon and the brown bears. The brown bears and the coastal bears. Plenty of food. Like that's why you see all those videos of people like sitting there taking pictures of these things, catching salmon out of the river. They say the Indian ones are more dangerous now. Yes. That's what they say. Yeah. Yeah. Because they hunt most of the time where they, you know, eat berries. Yeah. That's why I've seen these big bears run down the fucking moose. They're so fast. They're so powerful. Powerful. You see that video that some guy captured recently? These two bears do get it out for a long time. Yeah. A long time. Yes. A long time. Like a pride round. Yeah. The dude was like, this is going to get good. Or some shit like that. Then they just like standing up and I was like, whoa. They go, they go hard man. Got them by the ear, had one by the leg at one point. I was like, they wasn't around. I was watching it like, oh, what kind of wrestling move these bears are going to do? They do have a little jujitsu. They got something man. Yeah. They do use a little wrestling and they bite each other so fucking hard. Snapping. You see when you got that over hook, you got that wizard right there. Their coat is so impressive. They pull giant chunks of hair out of each other. Did you ever see the movie Grizzly Man? No, not Grizzly Man. Oh my God. You have to see it. That's a documentary, right? It's amazing. Yeah. It's about this crazy dude. Is that the dude who died? Yeah. I think I might have seen that who died at the end. It's a Werner Herzog movie and I swear to God, he's trying to make it a comedy. I think it's a comedy. I really do. I would call it an unintentional comedy but he's too brilliant for it to be unintentional. I think he did it on purpose. It's a comedy movie man. Grizzly Man. It's a tragedy for sure. It's sad that this guy got eaten by a grizzly bear and his girlfriend too. But it's also, it is a bananas movie. Because this guy just, he thought he was protecting these grizzlies. He's like, I'm here to save them, to save all the grizzlies. And he's like, you're not saving jack shit. Like what are you talking about? You're merely accommodating them for the time being. You're just around them because they don't know what you are. If they knew what you are, they would just eat you. And that's what one of them eventually did. He's like, I think I can eat this guy. And he just fucking ate him. Damn. Well he stuck around too long too and most of the bears were already in hibernation when he was in there. So the bears that weren't hibernating yet didn't have enough food. So they were desperate. So like maybe a desperate old male. And so then he just decided, oh he just eat this dude. I've been seeing this annoying motherfucker saying he's saving me. He's like, no I'm saving you for later. But there's a scene in it where they talk to this sheriff and the sheriff's like, I thought he was retarded. And they're like, smash guts after that. I'm like, that is comedy. Like he's doing this on purpose. He knows what he's doing. He knows what he's doing. But it's a crazy movie with this guy who's just, he seems like an in the closeted gay man. And because there's part of the movie where he's like, I wish I was gay because if I was gay I'd just meet a guy but I'm not gay. It's like, okay. Yeah. What? What are you doing, man? Like what's going on up there? Well I'd actually find many gay people they're loving out there. Maybe that guy. Pretty sure. But I mean I think it's not, I think it's a thing where people attach themselves like that they're there to help and save this magnificent creature, which is a magnificent creature. And then it gives their life so much more meaning because they're attached to something bigger than them. So important, so huge. As their whole identity is wrapped around protecting these bears. But the people that are the wildlife biologists up in Alaska, they know what they're doing. Those bears aren't in danger. They're not in danger at all. They have to monitor their populations very carefully. They go out there with rifles. Yeah, they have to be- They'll use them if they have to. Yeah, they have to sometimes. And especially if a bear starts eating people. Yeah. Like there was a hiker. They're going to put that bear down. Or a bicyclist in Montana. She got pulled out of her tent. Yeah. And apparently she had had an encounter with that same bear earlier and scared it off and the bear came back. I think that's the case. See if you can find that story. But that's in Montana. And that was like real close to town. So it freaked everybody out that this lady got just dragged out of her fucking- And killed. Yeah, she got killed. Yeah, she got killed. I don't think it takes much for- It's a rare exception when a grizzly bear doesn't kill you and they see some of those dudes, they stitch them back together again. They're like, yikes. Respect. Respect, dude. That's the end of my shit right there. That's the Reverend. Yeah. That's a true story, man. It was. Yeah, it's based on a true story. Based on a true story. That was a wild scene. Yeah. Bear attack. Yeah, I forget who the Reverend is based on. What were you just looking up? The lady in the bear, the hiker. Oh yeah, the story about the hiker. The bicyclist. Did she run into- I think she did. I'm not. I mean, there could be different articles. Either way, either way, the bear pulled her out of her tent. Yeah. That's the scariest way to die. So I don't do animals, man. Yeah, I hear them. I respect them. You know what I mean? Oh, I've seen this one. This bear showed up at a cabin and starts rubbing his body on it. That's gotta be like a miniature cabin, right? No, he's just huge, man. Some of those bears are 12 feet tall. Geez. Geez. That thing's huge. Ah, the Reverend. The Reverend, yeah. What is it the dude's name who it's based on? Apparently the real story, the author of the book on it was on Steve Ronella's podcast, Meat Eater podcast was a really good story. Hugh Glass. Hugh Glass is the author. It's an amazing episode where he talks about, you know, there's a difference between the Hollywood version and the real version, but it is based on true story. That was a good movie, man. I imagine living back then. You got to worry about bows and arrows flying at you and you're trying to make your way through the woods. And what the fuck are we doing here? Whoo. Hard people, man. What was that? That wasn't the Reverend. That was, uh, was it the Predator? The newest Predator. The newest one, yeah, with the Comanches. Yeah. And they had the French over there. That was good. Yeah, that was a really good one. It was fun. It was fun. It was a fun Predator movie. Like, I was a little skeptical. I was like, yeah, I think you got a girl. On the streaming side, yeah. You got a girl who's going to kill it. Come on, shut the fuck up. But it was good. It was still cinematic for the story, you know, you know, some suspension of disbelief. Yeah. Yeah, but still, they nailed it. They did it good. It was good. I enjoyed the shit out of it. It was a lot better than Aliens vs. Predator. Yeah, that wasn't so good. No. What do you do to unwind? Are you like a video game guy? What do you do to relax? Well, I play video games. There you go. I knew it. Was it anime? I was like, it's a shot in the dark. But, you know, since having children, man, it's few and far in between. But I still get my gaming time in right now. Right now, I'm playing Final Fantasy 16. I don't play much online. My daughter is, she's big into, what is it, Roblox and shit like that? Roblox, mine too. No, too much of that shit. Get off of that shit. Get off of the things. You know how it is with kids. You know what I mean? Yeah, we played Wanted Dead or Alive. You know that karate game? Wanted Dead or Alive? You don't know that karate game? Oh, man. It's the shit. Yeah. Yeah, it's a karate game. I fuck everybody up in that game. Nobody in my house wants to play me. It's a newer game? No, it's one of those ready, fight. Oh, okay. You know those games? I remember that I had karate champ growing up. That was on Nintendo. It was just like that. You had a red one and dude in white. Yeah, that's the game. Wanted Dead or Alive. Oh, just Dead or Alive. Okay, I remember Dead or Alive. I said, I fucked it up. Yeah, I remember Dead or Alive. But Dead or Alive was shit. That game was fun. You would knock somebody off of a platform and they'll fall, or you'll jump down and continue fighting. I keep trying to coach my kids how to do it. I keep fucking them up. You can't help yourself, huh? I can't help myself. I'm very competitive when it comes to that game. They don't like play anything they get mad. It was like something you played it. A couple of times. I'm like, I'm not a kid. I'm not a kid. That's the last time you played it. A couple of days ago. Yeah, who's your character right now? I pick whoever the fuck. I don't give a shit. Okay. Yeah, I don't give a shit. Each one of them has some specific moves you can do, a combination that you can do to knock a person back and just keep landing it. See my favorite fighting game was Bloody Roar. I don't know if a lot of people don't know Bloody Roar is, but that's... Bloody Roar. Yeah. I think I've heard that name. What does that look like? Well, it was a 3D fighting game, but you would transform... You have fighters who could transform into beast-like apparitions. Oh, okay. Similar kind of thing. Yeah. Oh, I remembered this. Yeah. Yeah. So I was good with a lot of them. Have you fucked around at all with VR? Have you done any of those VR games? I've played Thrill of the Fight. Is it Thrill of the Fight? Is that a boxing one? Yes, a boxing one. Those are great, aren't they? Yes. You can kind of move around with that a little. Yes. That was fairly realistic as far as the sensors and responsiveness goes, and I was using that to cut weight for my last fight and for the other side fight. I was using it to... You know, because I start pouring sweat on those damn things. Yeah. And then the eyes will fuck up. That's the problem. I was surprised that we did it on the concrete. I was like, my feet hurt. Because I'm like pushing off my feet and moving my body around. Which one were you playing? Which one were you playing, Jamie, on the HTC Vive? It could have been this. I don't remember at that time. I don't remember, but I do remember I love the fact that when he pops you, the screen goes white. You get hit. Yeah. It feels like you see stars. That's cool. Yeah. It gives you a real feeling of what it looks like when punches are coming at you. You get a real good workout. Yeah. It was really good. I was... If you could do... I'd like to swear to you. That's always tell people, if you could find something you enjoy doing, working out is so much easier. People say, well, I'm going to get in shape. I'm going to go to the gym. God damn it, that's boring. That's so boring. Just learn jiu-jitsu. Learn kickboxing. Do something. If you have a video game, there was a while where they were talking about, and I think some people still, they are doing it, but doing VR games on a unidirectional treadmill or a multidirectional treadmill. Yeah. They have this treadmill that can go all different ways and it's propelled by your movement. As you're moving, you're harnessed into this circle. Kicks you there. Yeah. But the treadmill can go in 360 different ways. I've seen those. Yeah, it's fucking cool. I want one of those. That's fucking cool. You're running around and shooting things. You're getting exercise while you're also playing a fun game. If you could do something like Dance Dance Revolution, a lot of people lost weight doing that because that's fun. That thing is revolutionary right there. I didn't get into it because I'm not a big dancer, but I like my games. But I got into the bathroom. Oh, yeah. We could just wrap this up. Let's wrap this up. We're about at the end of the line anyway. Thank you very much, man. I hear you. Let's wrap it up, P. Tell everybody your Instagram so they can follow you. Yeah, I'm on Instagram, Killa Gorilla MMA. So give me a like, follow. You guys will see all this cool stuff that I'm doing. I'm going to get more active. I'm not super active, but I will be more active. I'm definitely active during five weeks.