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Dr. John Abramson, Overdosed America: The Broken Promise of American Medicine
...Salvador once, California four or five times, Indonesia for a month, Tahiti, France, Mexico. Damn, son. Yeah. World traveler. A lot. What have you been doing? A lot of surfing. Yeah? A lot of surfing. How's your knee? It's great. Is it 100%? It's amazing. It's not 100%, but I never thought it would be this good again, honestly. It's really, really good. I have slight range of motion that's not as good as the other, which is to be expected, but it's great. I surf with no brace. I snowboard with no brace. I go hunting all the time with no brace. I never really think about it, which is amazing. For people that don't know, you were in a snowboarding accident, and you fucking demolished your knee. Yeah, I ran right into a tree. Wrapped my knee around a tree. Always my fear when I see people skiing and snowboarding at some, I quit skiing because of an accident. I fucked my knee up and I cracked my shin bone. I got an insufficiency fracture in the top of my shin bone. Yeah. I was like, that's it. I'm done. I'm done with this. Yeah, I love snowboarding. I'm not giving it up. So I'm, but yeah, like to answer your question, I'm really happy with the way my knee healed up. So yeah, it was a shitty experience of that whole process. How long did it take you to fully heal? Probably 18 months. Yeah. Wow. But I was really, really, I really followed the, I followed all the physical therapy and all the protocol. And I did every single thing I could to help it out. Like you rang me and said, let's get some stem cells in your knee. So like I came twice here, guys at Ways2Well helped me out with that. And I had great results from that. Actually felt the difference, which is amazing, but it healed great. You were saying that was the turning point, like the Ways2Well, like that you were, that this is what, one of the things that really pushed you over the edge, what really felt like it was healing. Yeah. I mean, I went to a great surgeon and he does these things all the time with, great success. I have a lot of friends who've had that exact same surgery from him. So I was really confident. What was the extent of the injury? I got full repairs of my ACL and my MCL. They both basically blew off. Yeah. So they took my patellar tendon and split it in thirds and then built new ligaments out of that. So the MCL and the ACL out of patella tendon? Yeah. How much does that compromise the patella tendon? It doesn't really. Cause I had a patella tendon graft on my left knee and it took forever to heal. Where on my right knee, I had a cadaver, which only took like six months. Yeah. I think using a cadaver, you heal much faster. Yeah. But yeah, the- Why did they decide to do that with you? Just because like that specific injury that I had, like I spoke to my surgeon, really good guy named Warren Kramer out of California. And he said, look, we have a couple different options here. You can choose. And he just kind of ran me through. And he said, if it was my knee, I would use a patellar tendon. He goes, it'll take longer to heal, but you'll be rock solid. And like the way he explained is the patellar tendon is pretty wide and really, really strong. So even though you're taking a third from one side and a third from the other side, it doesn't really compromise the integrity of the actual tendon. And it's weird the way your body is able to turn that tendon into ligaments. Isn't that strange? It is. So they take a tendon and then they make ligaments. Well, like they put it in place, where you used to have these ligaments and your body accepts it over time as a ligament. Yeah. Well, with the cadaver thing, one of the weird things is that your body uses it as a scaffolding and then re-proliferates it with its own tissue. So it's not like you have this cadaver tendon inside of you. Gotcha. Because I have an Achilles tendon. That's what it started out with. That's what replaced my ACL in my right knee. Oh, wow. Some dead dude. It took his Achilles tendon. Because your Achilles is 150% stronger, apparently, once they do that than the original ACL. And then they just screw that sucker in place. And dude, I was good to go quick. I went to a party without a brace five days later after surgery. Wow. I was in bad shape for a long time. Yeah, I was with my left knee. My left knee was in agony for a long time because they have to saw the fucking piece out of the bone and the piece out of the bone in your shin and screw the both of them in place. I couldn't go on my knees. I couldn't do anything if I had to kneel down. I couldn't do anything for like a year. The pain from waking up after surgery was so brutal. I had no idea how bad it was gonna be. It sucked. It's intense. Really bad. Yeah, for me, it was one of the only times I ever took painkillers. Yeah. The painkillers made me feel so stupid. It was, I can't remember, it was Percocets or Vicodin. Can't remember, but I remember I sold it to some dude at the pool hall. I love that. Yeah, some dude is like, I'll take them. All right, bye, I'll sell it to you. Yeah, some crazy junkie named Jeff. Jeff the junkie. Jeff the junkie, yeah. I just threw painkillers in the trash this morning at my hotel. Nice. And I remember thinking, I just looked down as I was throwing them in the trash and thinking, man, there's probably people outside right now that would like do something terrible for those painkillers. I hate painkillers. I feel like you're either, you're like in one group or the other where like your body really loves painkillers, or your brain, I guess, really loves painkillers or really doesn't, I'm definitely hate painkillers. Yeah, I didn't take anything from my right knee. I didn't take a goddamn thing. After the surgery, I was like, I'll just deal with pain. I remember what it was like taking them for my left knee. I was like, fuck off. It doesn't jive with me, it just makes me, again, I hear opiates are amazing. I hear people that take like OxyContin, they said it's amazing, like, oh my God, it's so wonderful. Like, I had Peter Berg on the podcast. He's the guy that produced that Netflix series, Painkiller. I listened to that one, it was awesome. He's amazing, Peter's amazing. But that Painkiller show, it's so eye opening. But he was saying that he took OxyContin once, recreationally, and he was like, oh my God, this is so good, I can never do this again. It just makes you feel so wonderful. That, you know, they say it's, you feel like you're slowly falling into like a jar of honey. Like a warm jar of honey. That's a good way to describe it. But I don't feel like that. When I have to take a Painkiller, I feel loopy and it feels nauseous. I feel, it was gross. Well, that's good. Yeah, very grateful for that. Why did you, did you needed them after stem cells? Is that what you needed them for? Yeah, so I just had stem cell treatment in Mexico. I was there for a week. So you went to the CPI, the Cellular Performance Institute in Mexico, and you just got hammered with them, right? Yeah, I was there for a week. And it was intense, it was great. So yeah, so my treatment was pretty over the top, not over the top, but for me, it was a lot. I got both shoulders done, both knees, my right elbow, my lumbar spine and my cervical spine. And they, you know, I did the cervical spine and the lumbar. And when they do your spine, they put you out. So they put you under anesthesia. And then they do the rest of my body at that same time. And then because there were so many stem cells in my back, like most of the time people wake up from that and they're really sore and a lot of pain. And so they gave me some pain medication, which I sort of needed right when I woke up. But like by the next morning, I was just on like the Tylenol trip. So like things mellowed out really quick for me. So that was two weeks ago, you said? Yeah, it was like 10 days ago now. 10 days ago. Yeah. Do you feel any difference? Yes. So I'm not supposed to feel any different for like the first month. Like, you know, like these sort of stem cells are a little bit different. That's my understanding at least. So they're called a hypoxic stem cell and they're from cord blood. So they're from an umbilical cord. And I got 180 million stem cells injected. And then I got 100 million stem cells in an IV. And so those kind of stem cells, they're called hypoxic, which is, I think it means that they do really, really well under very low oxygen environments. So they're able to live on my body for up to 12 months. Live, I don't know if that's the right word, but they stay active in growing in your body for 12 months. So now it's just a matter of me following the protocol, which is not that fun. And so the protocol involves essentially a lot of rest, right? You're not supposed to train, like what is the protocol? Yeah, so the protocol with these specific stem cells, like because they sort of live so long in your body, the first two weeks is basically nothing. It's like maybe 15 minutes of like walking per day. And then after that, you work with a physical therapist and you have very specific physical therapy. So it's like a lot of like stabilization stuff. Like I did my spine. So I was talking to Nikki Hind, who's my physical therapist. And so she's creating like a physical therapy schedule and program for me based around my spine. And she told me that she's worked with some people who have had intense stem cell therapies. And it's like a pretty crazy opportunity to kind of, you have like a second chance, like at this age with my spine to like really change it the way it is. So I'm pretty excited about that. I have some like degeneration and some bulging discs in my lower back. And then I have some, my upper back, my cervical spine is pretty fucked up from all the surfing wipeouts I've had. Oh. So surfing wipeouts, like when you hit the ground and the water comes to the top. Yeah, like falling off a 60 foot wave and hitting the surface of the water, that impact with the water like moving at like 30 miles an hour and you go in the other direction like, yeah. So my neck is jacked up from a lot of that. And do they go right into the actual disc itself? So they go in, I know in my, I don't wanna mess this up, right? But I try to ask all the right questions and memorize everything. But I know in my cervical spine, they mostly did my facets, but in my lower back, I think they went straight in the discs. So they did my SI joint and then like my C5, C4, I don't know if that sounds correct, but so yeah, they did the discs. Wow. So. And is it supposed to make the disc expand? Yeah. And make it larger. And so there's more cushion between the spinal column? Yeah, exactly. And they regrow tissue, they regrow ligaments. And so where there's been a lot of wearing down, a lot of times it'll regrow that. So I did my MRIs before my treatment and then I'll go back six months from now and get updated MRIs. They're really good about the data, so they wanna see your progress. So the doctor will go over you with your new MRI six months from now and compare them exactly to the previous MRI and go, hey, here's where your knee was or here's where your discs were and here's where they are now. And so they tried, that's the goal, right? Is for you to see some major improvement. And is a part of the thing with not exercising at all, just make sure that you don't do any breaking down of the body while it's going through this process of accepting the stem cells? Is that? Yeah, that's a good question. So my understanding is, so in your body, like the way an injury or like a torn ligament or a torn rotator cuff shows up in your body, it's just inflammation. And inflammation is like basically like a magnet for stem cells. So the stem cells go exactly where they're needed in your body, they're really smart. So the stem cells were injected straight into the joints and into the areas of my body. But would you ask me again, what was the question? I said the idea of no exercise. Is it just like you just have no nothing, no strain on the body whatsoever for a long time while the stem cells sort of just start doing their work? So what you don't want to do is create inflammation that wasn't there already, because you want your stem cells to go to your inflammation that you already had before, right? So you want it to heal your body where you need it the most. So you don't want it, like if I went like running 15 miles right now, my stem cells get confused and trying to go to my calves to try to repair that muscle soreness because that's inflammation. And so you don't want to do that and you don't want to decrease inflammation either when you get stem cells, which is interesting. So I can't do the cold plunge, I can't do the sauna, can't take anti-inflammatories. How long do they tell you not to do the cold plunge or sauna? Like five or six weeks. Really? Yeah. Wow. Because these stem cells are so active for so long that if you really want to get the most out of the treatment, that that's the protocol. And I was like, ah, they're just saying that, they're just saying that for like the general public. Right. I think athletes always feel like they're like in a different category. Of course. And just because, I don't know why that is. Because you are in a different category. Well, in some aspects maybe, but, and then I call my physical therapist and I'm like, hey, these guys are saying this, but like obviously it's not that, right? And she's like, no, that's right on. Like if you want to get the most out of this treatment, then you got to follow the protocol and that is the protocol. That would drive me nuts. I'm being a big baby about the not working out part. Yeah. Can you do anything? Can you swim? Can you do anything? I can swim. They encourage you to swim. You can walk a lot. And like, unless obviously, unless you have pain. So in your knees or something, you have pain. Because the stem cells are like really active in your body. So like if you get knee pain, it could like, it could flare up because of the stem cells. If you're not having that, then you can walk a lot. And then I'll be able to do like resistance training with bands and stuff like fairly soon, like probably like four weeks from now. But it's difficult, you know, like at my age, I'm 51. And for like 18 months, I've been pretty on it. Like trying to be fit, trying to get my fitness better. Try, you know, really trying to get in shape. You look like a rip, dude. You sent my picture. Looking good. Yeah, it's funny how guys will do that. Guys will be like, hey, update right here. Especially when you work freaking hard, dude. Yeah, you want people to see it. It takes a long time, especially me. I'm like, I don't know, like the way my body works, like if I don't work out, like so right now, if I didn't work out for like three months, I'll lose so much, right? Like just be like, I feel like I'm gonna turn to mush. Right. Once I mush, it might take a year to get back. Right. That what I lost in like, you know, one month or six weeks or something, which is wild. Yeah. Yeah. It sucks. And I'm not cool with it at all. So yeah, it's, it really makes you appreciate it though. Once you do get it back, like if you do get out of shape and then you get back and you realize how hard it is, that's one of the reasons why I'm so fanatical about working out because I know that when I've gotten out of shape, that road back is a lot different at 56, which is how old I am, versus 30 or 25. Yeah, the road back's long. Road back at 25 is a couple of weeks, good to go. Yeah. Like your tippy top shape again, but at 56, it's like months. Yeah. This is cool. I, one thing I did learn and I'm trying to keep this in mind when I'm sort of being a baby about all that thing, about not working out, your muscles have a really strong memory. So if you're really fit and then all of a sudden you go through a period like I'm going through right now, where I'm probably going to get unfit for a little bit, it'll come back much faster, back to kind of exactly where you were before really quickly because your muscles have memory. So like- Definitely in comparison to someone who's out of shape. Yeah. Someone who never works out at all, it will take them forever to get into the shape that you were in. Right, totally. Yeah, big difference. But I guess, I forgot exactly, I think it was Andrew Huberman who was talking about it and he was saying that like, there's like muscle bellies within your muscle. And so if you develop those muscle bellies, they have a really solid memory. And so when you try to get back in shape, you'll snap back way faster. So. I definitely have heard that before and it definitely makes sense, that your body recognizes like, oh, this is a place that we've been before, we have a memory of this. So we'll just get back to where that is and just- Yeah. Because to get someone who's, one of the things that drives me crazy is that people that are really out of shape, that have never worked out and they're like, oh, I gotta get into shape. And like, okay, do you know what you're saying? Like, you don't, like, I have a friend of mine, he's overweight and he's been talking to me about exercise and just like, I'm worried about being sore. I go, listen, man, if you want to do this. Yeah, I go, if you want to do this, I go, I will work out with you and I promise you, you will barely get sore because I'm not gonna make you, we will work out for maybe 20 minutes. And he goes, why just 20 minutes? I go, because you're not doing anything right now. Like you shouldn't, if you try to do what I do every day, your body's gonna tear apart. Like you'll blow your shoulders out, you'll ruin your knees. What we want to do is just slowly build you up. What I'll have you do is just do like five pushups, five body weight squats, five sit-ups, take a break, relax. I'll show you some stuff that we can do with bands. I'll give you some different exercises that we could do with kettlebells, very light, just clean press. I'll just have a couple of things that you do, some swings. And we'll work out for maybe 20 minutes and then stop. And then I wanna see how you feel the next day. And then I'm gonna get you in the cold plunge. I'm gonna get you in the sauna. And then in two days, we'll do it again. And if we do it again, it's still the same thing. Very light, 20 minutes. And I would do that, and I told them, I will do that with you for a couple weeks before I have you really straining hard. Yeah. I don't want you like hurting yourself. Because too many people, they try to make up for years of abuse. And they try to just jump right back in and fucking run a marathon. Don't do that. Your body is out of shape. You have no muscle tissue. You're surrounded by fat. We gotta build it back nice and slow, the same way it got sick. Build it back. So many people take 20 years to put on 100 pounds and then expect to lose it in three months. Well, and then that's the big hook with all these stupid diet programs. 10 weeks to six pack abs. No, that's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. I feel like people really tend to overestimate how much you have to train to, like the duration per day. Exactly what you said, your friend, that misconception of, I need to work out an hour every single day on a person who's totally obese or something like that. You don't need to at all. And consistency is way more important than even intensity. If you're kind of intense but you're super consistent, you do it every single day or five days a week, you get insane results in six months. Well, that's one of the things that the Russians figured out with wrestling, that instead of these like unbelievably brutal, intense workouts like the American wrestlers were doing, what they were doing was very high volume technical work over long periods of time, like several hours per day. And they were training multiple days, like almost every day a week, but not high intensity all the time. And they were developing a far greater array of skills. The skill improvement was greater. And then overall fitness was also getting great too, because you weren't breaking yourself down and then forcing yourself to work out with a broken down body. They were doing it the correct way. But the correct way and the tough guy way are very different things. The tough guy way is, fuck it. Just fucking grind, get in there and push. And that's a good mentality sort of, but you can trip yourself up with that, because you literally put too much of a demand on your body, then your body is capable of meeting. Like your mind can be tougher than the actual physical, the actual physical ability of your body to recover and move. Yeah. And yeah, I think it's easy to over train too, when you get really sometimes get addicted to training. Like I am for sure. I love working out, I love it. But I trained so differently now than I did when I was in my 40s and my 30s. I think I over trained a lot when I was younger. And now I'm realizing, at least for my goals now, my goal with working out now is specifically so I can continue doing the things I love to do as long as possible. I want to bow hunt, I want to snowboard, I want to surf till I'm in my 80s. That's the real goal. Or maybe as long as I possibly can. I mean, like getting super jacked or getting super shredded or whatever, that sounds like fun too. But really it's all about like performance. Life and journey. Yeah, long term performance. Can you do yoga after the stem cells? No. Is that, no. No, they specifically said that. Yeah. Yeah. But you can, but not at first. So the first like month to eight weeks are really important for the stem cells. And it really depends. So like if I just had like a, say like a torn rotator cuff and I did the injection on my shoulder, I could start getting back in the gym much faster and I could start doing squats and I could start doing all this other stuff. Like once they're settled into where they are, it's fine. But you don't want to create inflammation in those areas. So as long as you're not doing overhead presses on that shoulder, you're probably going to be, you're going to be just fine. So with me, I had, you know, extensive stem cells throughout my body, especially in my spine and my back. So I got to be careful. I'm very interested to see how the spine, the back stuff works. Is I've had a lot of those same issues myself with degenerative discs and it's just from Jiu-Jitsu mostly. Yeah. And so everybody I know from Jiu-Jitsu has something fucked up about the backs. I know a lot of guys who have had disc replacements. They open you up and put a fucking titanium disc in there. Yeah. The problem with that is like, they got to replace it someday. And so you want to put that off as long as you can, right? Yeah, but fuck that. Yeah, fuck that. Fuck that, a second spinal surgery? So they go back in there and can? Such a nightmare. And a lot of times they go from the front, I heard. They go through your neck. Through the front of your neck to get to there. Marley. Yeah. I guess it's the best way to do it. They open you up. They open up a slit. Spread it open like a keyhole. Yeah. I'm going to try it with the stem cells for now. For sure. You're fit, dude. What have you been eating? I know I asked you on the, I was texting you, but I wanted to get a full breakdown of Joe's food program. It's almost all meat. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah, I'm almost entirely, that's my, all I eat is meat. Okay. Yesterday, my entire day was almost, my entire day was like 95% elk. Wow. Yeah. It's all I eat. Freaking awesome. Yeah. It's okay. For me, it just seems to work. I mean, I've tried a bunch of different diets, but for me, there's a lot of benefits to this carnivore diet. And one of the biggest ones, because I do this for a living, right? So one of the biggest ones is the cognitive benefits. Yeah. There's some giant difference between your body running on ketones, which is essentially what it runs on when you're running on just fats and protein, versus your body running on sugar, carbs, and pasta and bread. Yeah. That stuff would make me crash and I would feel dull. Like my mind would feel dull. And when I started back on the carnivore diet, one of the first things that I noticed, almost immediately, is that I had an extra gear verbally. I got an extra gear cognitively. Like, oh, my mind is forming sentences better. It's quicker. I'm more in tune with conversations, which obviously because I do this for a living, it's fucking so critical. Yeah, it's huge. I would stay on this diet just for that. Just for that. But then the other benefits are my energy levels are completely flat throughout the day. There's no crashes, no peaks and valleys. And good energy? Fucking great. Yeah. It would take a while. I have to be honest. The first couple weeks of the diet, my workout struggled. But they call that like the keto flu, when people call that. Because essentially- It's a period of time when your body is trying to adapt to what you're trying to give it, right? Exactly. And so I do take in some fats that aren't animal fats. Like one of the things I really like is Primal Kitchens products. Primal Kitchen makes this chipotle lime mayonnaise. Is that Mark Sisson? Yes. Yeah, that guy's a legend. He's great. He's an awesome dude. And Mark makes a Primal Kitchen mayonnaise that's avocado oil, which is very good for you. I think we have some of that at the house. It's great stuff. And so what I do is I'll cook up on the Traeger. I'll cook up like a few elk roasts for the week. And then I buy like four or five jars of that Primal mayonnaise at a time. And I'll just scoop it onto a plate. And I'll just dip slices of cold elk into there. I came home last night from the comedy club at 1.30 in the morning. And that's what I ate. I just ate a big plate of elk and some Primal Kitchen mayonnaise and watched YouTube. I cannot, that's discipline dude, to eat all meat all day. That's crazy. I'm pretty decent. Like I'm pretty decent like with discipline and even with my food, I'm really disciplined with working out and kind of disciplined with food. And I'd say for like 80% of my food intake is like pretty darn good. It's like meat and eggs for the most part. But man, I do love, like I have sugar cravings. There's nothing about it. Of course, everybody does. And the thing is if you don't stop eating sugar, you're always gonna have these super strong sugar cravings. And there's such a big difference between hunger and cravings are two totally different things, but you feel them in the same way. You get this trigger of like, fuck I'm hungry. I'm hungry right now. I always said that like, if you just give me a ribeye steak and I eat the ribeye steak, I will be satisfied. And I'll be done eating. I might not even eat the whole steak. You'll stop when you're done, for sure. But if there's a bowl of pasta right next to that, I'm gonna dig into that spaghetti. I'm gonna fucking eat that whole thing. And then I'm gonna be like, oh. And then my stomach's gonna be bloated. And I'm like, oh. Like I've had giant meals and then just looked at my stomach in the mirror. I'm like, what are you pregnant? Like, what is that? It just bloated with food. I'm a real glutton. I have a real problem with food. Yeah, I do too. But I don't really because I'm disciplined. But if I let myself, I will eat two pizzas. Right. You give me like two pepperoni and mushroom pizzas, I will fucking keep eating. Yeah. Right. Until I'm like stuffing it. Like the pizza's up to my neck like. It's really hard to do that with meat. It's really hard to do that when you're eating just meat. You're gonna eat until you're done and then you're done. Well, meat has a very high satiety level. Where anything that's high in protein, it satisfies you very quickly. And it's delicious. It's delicious. It's so satisfying. It's 100% my favorite thing to eat. So if I could just eat ribeye steaks or elk meat for the rest of my life. What's about eating wild game though, is you must supplement with fat. You have to have fat. Yeah. Because like. You lose too much weight too. Well, it's you're not getting enough fats. You have to get fat. Fat is important for your brain function. Right. It's important for everything. So when I, if I, that's why I like that Primal Kitchen mayonnaise stuff. Or when I cook elk, what I'll do is most of the time I will slow cook it on the Traeger like 265 until it reaches an internal temperature about like 115 or so. Yeah. And then what I do is I take cast iron frying pan and I use beef tallow. And so you get a lot of fat from the beef tallow. Yeah. And so I'll use grass fed beef tallow and I sear it on the outside in that beef tallow. I get the fat from that. I also try to get fat from bacon. Your bacon's not good for you. Whatever. Listen, trust me, it's good for you. It's fat. You need fat. Like animal fat. It's not good for you if you're eating all cheeseburgers from McDonald's and processed food. That's not what the problem is. And then you put bacon on top of that. But if you're eating clean, bacon's not the problem. The real problem is there's a giant issue that people have with processed foods. And when you talk about like, there's a bunch of goofy epidemiology studies that talk about how meat increases uratic cancer. But the way those studies work is someone will fill out a form. How many days a week do you eat meat? And I eat meat six days a week. And what they don't ask is what kind of meat? Are you eating a Jack in the Box cheeseburger? Do you have any fries with that? Do you have a shake? Do you have soda? There's a bunch of other things that people do eat. So there's a thing called healthy user bias. So if you're someone who says, I don't eat any meat, well, you're probably listening to a lot. You're probably trying to do the right thing for your health. So you're listening to what would be like mainstream conventional doctor's wisdom on diet, which is almost certainly off. Because most of these doctors that are talking about these, they're not up on the latest studies. They're not like Huberman or Lane Norton or anything. If you really wanna know what's good for you and what's bad for you, I always say, listen to Jacked Scientists. Those are the guys they're gonna tell you. These are the foods that are actually good for you. And almost everyone agrees. Sugar's terrible for you. Sugar, breads, pastas, and then you get into the more controversial areas of seed oils. Seed oils, which essentially were initially, they were initially invented to be industrial lubricants for machinery. And they figured out, have you ever seen the process where they take like canola oil, which you think of as like, oh, canola, must be corn, must be healthy? No, it's rapeseed, which is a that word people don't like. Like rapeseed, what the fuck is that thing? I don't wanna have nothing to do with that plant. Well, that's what canola oil is. And then there's like safflower oil and sunflower oil. Oh, those sound wonderful. Not good for you at all. Avocado oil is though. Avocado oil is very good for you. Olive oil, very good for you. There's a lot of oils that are very good for you. That's another thing that I use. Those two in particular are definitely the best. This is another thing I really like to do with meat, I pour olive oil on it, put a little salt, put a little olive oil. That's why I'm getting a lot of healthy fats. And so with my diet, I have to make sure that I get healthy fats because you just eat just only like elk. There's not enough fat, they're too lean. Yeah, definitely. But ribeyes, you can eat all ribeyes all day. If I ate all elk, I would probably weigh 130 pounds. You'd just shredded those. Shredded like crazy. Shredded for sure. So for what I was saying, it was like for the first two weeks, it was really hard. My workouts were rough. It was like I was sort of fighting off a cold almost. I was just like, ugh. Low energy. Yeah, like when I- At aches too? No, not that bad. No, just a little bit of fatigue. And mostly just during exercise. It wasn't really that much during the day. Not at all during the day in fact. But I could feel the difference. But somewhere along the line, about two weeks in, your body hits a switch. And now it has no effect on me. Now I feel great. I feel great hitting the bag. I feel great doing sprints. Sprints on the air dine bike. I feel great with my body weight workouts, kettlebell workouts, everything's great. But more importantly for my job, for this, my brain works better. Just works better. Right, and for comedy, writing, all that stuff. Much better, all the above. Everything's better. It's just carbs and bread and all that stuff. It's just the crash, the inconsistency that you get throughout the day. And also the fact that you just keep eating. You just get bloated. You just stuff your fat fucking face with cheeseburgers. If you give me cheeseburgers with buns, I'll eat three or four of those fuckers. I can't stop. Hell yeah. You'll eat it till it's all gone. I will too. But you know what I like to go, I like to go to In-N-Out and I get those flying Dutchman. You ever get that? No. I really like In-N-Out. You don't like In-N-Out? I don't like In-N-Out. How dare you? I really don't. Their fries suck. Oh my God. I feel like I judge a burger joint on the fries. Really? I don't like their fries. Do you like McDonald's fries? No. No? Whose fries do you like? I like like big potato wedge fries. You know how's the best fries? Sweet potato fries, I'm a big fan of them. Oh, those are the best. Yeah. But you know how's the best fries in all of fast food burgers? Five Guys. Five Guys. Five Guys has some fucking fries. I don't think I've ever eaten in Five Guys. Oh, they're the best. Five Guys will give you bacon on your burger and you get bacon in jalapenos. Five Guys is the best. I prefer Five Guys over even over in and out. My son likes In-N-Out and we go there sometimes and I get that animal style with the lettuce wraps and it's all right. Lettuce wraps, okay. I prefer what's called a Flying Dutchman. And what a Flying Dutchman is just a patty, slice of cheese, patty. That's what I get. Oh, gotcha. It's like a patty sandwich. It's like a cheese sandwich with the patty as the bread. Do we eat cheese on the regular? Yeah. Yeah? What sort of cheese do you eat? I eat dairy, whatever. I eat all kinds of cheese. What about fruit? No fruit? Occasionally I have fruit. Does it make you feel weird or anything? No. That give you a weird insulin spike or anything? Sometimes in the morning I just decide I want a little pepper. I'll have a banana before I work out. But most of the time I work out fasted. I like berries and papayas. I eat a lot of them. Oh, those are great. Yeah, I love papayas. I love mango. Mango's probably my favorite fruit. Papayas are really good for your digestion. I was gonna say that while we're on this thing about the food, Denise. Fennies too well? Yeah, ways too well. I did my original blood work with her and then we did a really cool Zoom call afterwards and we talked for like an hour about my blood work and I was deficient in a bunch of different things. And one of the things was vitamin D. And she goes, yeah, I think you should start supplementing with vitamin D, do you? And I said, yeah, I actually take vitamin D every day. And she's like, there's some weird disconnect. So we send me the brand or whatever you take. She's like, that's a great brand. There's something wrong happening with the way your body's trying to absorb and digest that. So she has, so there was a bunch of things in my diet that I was taking that I was kind of deficient in. And so she started me on this digestive enzyme, which is essentially papaya enzymes. And then I got my blood work done six months later and I was like really great on my vitamin D. Interesting. Yeah. So there was something about your diet and the supplements where your body wasn't accepting the vitamin D. Yeah. Well, they usually say vitamin D you should take with K2. Yeah. You're taking it with K2. I take both. Yeah. But my body for some reason just wasn't getting the vitamin D. That's interesting. Yeah, but most, there's a lot of people that are deficient in vitamin D. Yeah, oh, it's a giant problem. And it's a giant problem. Well, it's really a hormone. Yeah. Vitamin D is very different. And the best way to get it really is from outside. The best way to get it is from the sun. Yeah. But if you don't get it from the sun enough, specifically if you live in a cold climate, you really have to supplement. If you don't, it's just really bad for your health overall. In all ways, your immune system function, something like at one point in time, like 74% of the people that were in the ICU for COVID were deficient in vitamin D. Yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah. I mean, I think that most people just in general are deficient in vitamin D. Yes. And it's surprisingly, most surfers are deficient in vitamin D and they're outside in the ocean. Yeah, it's very weird. How is that possible? Doesn't make any sense. But it's true. What could be causing that? I don't know. Like what about surfing? I have no idea, but that's an actual thing. Is it possible that somehow or another there's something about the water? I surf, I'm in the sun every single day. That doesn't make any sense. I'm deficient in vitamin D. And you tan. And I was really deficient in vitamin D. That's wild. Yeah, it's pretty weird. That's wild. Yeah. God, I wonder what that would be. That doesn't even make sense. I know, very strange. I would think if anybody would have like super high levels of vitamin D, it'd be surfers. Yeah. Right? Shirt off, shorts on, barefoot. Yeah, I don't know where it is. Your whole body is like a big old fucking solar panel for vitamin D. I don't know, but I definitely wasn't getting it. So I have to supplement that. I have to supplement a couple different things. One of the things that I do that Huberman says to do is I spend the early part of the morning like staring into the sun. Yeah. I get up in the morning and the first thing I do is go into the cold plunge. And where my cold plunge is set up, when I get it in the morning, the sun is like right there. Yeah. In the sky when I'm freezing my dick off. So I just lie in this thing and like stare at the sun. And it's an amazing way to wake up. It just fires me up like right away. It just changes my whole day. Yeah. You know, like whatever sluggishness and weirdness that I have, I get in that thing and it's like yikes. And I'm staring at the sun. It's like whoop. All my levels just go right back up to normal. I'm drawing a blank on the term, but what is it called when your body sets its time for the day from the sun? Circadian rhythm? Yeah, circadian rhythm. Supposed to be great for that. So it benefits your sleep a lot, right? To get sunlight early in the morning. Yeah, supposedly. Sets your body's clock, your mind's clock. I've never had a problem with sleep. Yeah, I mean either. Luckily. I'm just one of those guys. Suck. Suck. Yeah, I have friends that really struggle with sleep. My wife struggles with sleep. I can go to sleep on a fucking train station floor. Yeah, I don't get it at all. And I'm not super empathetic about it too. Because sometimes my wife will be up doing something in the middle of the night and she's like she can't sleep. And I'm like what are you doing? Go back to sleep. She's like, do you think I want to? Yeah, some people just can't sleep. Well, Jaco only sleeps like four hours a night. That's not good for you. He says he doesn't need anymore. Yeah, but his brain does. I don't know. Maybe not for functioning right now, but long term, like you asked Andrew Huberman, that's one of the things you can do to help your brain function as long as possible and with Alzheimer's and all kinds of brain issues, long term, sleep is a major factor. Yeah, it's a major factor if they look at the correlation between the amount of hours of sleep and the instances of Alzheimer's. It seems to be some sort of attraction. Huge. Yeah, I don't know. Jaco's a different kind of animal though. Maybe. He definitely seems built different. Yeah, maybe he just doesn't need it. I think there's certain people, I think Arnold is one of those people too, Schwarzenegger. I think he said he only sleeps a few hours a night. I think there's certain people that just like, they have just different requirements. There are people that like physically don't need as much sleep. Like everybody needs some sleep, but I think there are people, I'm not one of them. I can notice the difference between six and eight hours. I know it's a big difference. Six hours is like, oh, I got a push. There's an extra push. Whereas eight hours, good to go. Yeah. I sleep six or seven hours a night, but I feel like everybody's different. Like there must be outliers to only sleep four hours a night and function well. It must not affect your hormones as much as most people. Because like, I feel like most people, if you sleep four hours a night, it's terrible for your hormones. It really depends. It causes a crazy crash in your hormones. I think it really depends on what you're doing. Like for some people, like if you're only sleeping four hours, but your job is very engaging and very intense and a lot of adrenaline, you're fired up. Like at the end of that day, you're probably going to crash hard, but you might be able to pull it off and keep going. But if you have like some fucking paperwork job and you only slept like four hours, you're going to be yawning and falling asleep. You're going to be barely able to get through it. Or even this job, there's like the brain function aspect. Oh, here it is. Huge. After 10 years search, scientists find second short sleep gene. After a decade of searching, UC San Francisco scientists who identified the only human gene known to produce natural short sleep, lifelong nightly sleep that lasts just four to six hours, yet leaves individuals feeling fully rested, have discovered a second. It says before we identified the first short sleeve sleep gene, people really, excuse me, really weren't thinking about sleep duration in genetic terms. Said Ying-Hiu Fu, a PhD professor of neurology and member of the UCSF, Weil, how do you say that? Weil? Weil? Weil Institute for Neurosciences. Fu led the research teams that discovered both short sleep genes, the newest of which is described in a paper published August 28th, 2019, the Journal of Neuron. According to Fu, many scientists once thought that certain sleep behaviors couldn't be studied genetically. Sleep can be difficult to study using the tools of human genetics as people use alarms, coffee, and pills to alter their natural sleep cycles, she said. These sleep disruptions, the thinking went, made it difficult for researchers to distinguish between people who naturally sleep for less than six hours and those who do so only with the aid of an artificial stimulant. And natural short sleepers remained a mystery until 2009 when a study conducted by Fu's team discovered that people who had inherited a particular mutation in a gene called DEC2 averaged only 6.25 hours of sleep per night. Study participants lacking the mutation averaged 8.06 hours. The finding provided the first conclusive evidence that natural short sleep is, at least in some cases, genetic. But this mutation is rare, so while it helped explain some natural short sleepers, it couldn't account for all of them. Interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. I think Jaco is just an animal. Yeah, just must vary. I think he likes being tired. I think he likes waking up tired and then pushing through it. He's probably so used to suffering on a daily that that just becomes his baseline. If he's not suffering, he probably doesn't feel right. Yeah. Right? Well, how many fucking, go to his Instagram, how many photos of his watch at 4th or in the morning? He's got the worst Instagram, but the worst Instagram? You're just like another watch photo. But you know he's gotten after it. I know, it's a shitty Timex watch who scratches all over. This is probably had for a decade. My go-to when I'm working out, Joe, is I'll go on Spotify and I'll search Jaco, Goggins, Rogan, Jim motivation, and they'll have these snippets from different YouTube videos of your show when you have someone on and you're getting psyched or Goggins saying you're a bitch if you don't work out harder, whatever it is. And then Jaco saying a bunch of stuff and it's like this hyper-motivational stuff and I'll listen to that as I'm working out, I swear. For sure, it's like maybe 30, 40% difference in my output. Isn't that wild? I work way harder. Isn't it wild what inspiration could do? Yeah, it's crazy. It's like a drug. I'll be working out and so fired up, I'll send it, I'll share it and be like, hey, next workout, you gotta try this. It's like that good. It's like pre-workout, but the whole thing. Yeah, it's interesting how mental, something that happens to you that's inspirational, like some sort of mental fuel. It's like a physical drug. Your body responds to it like a physical drug and you get fired up. Yeah. Yeah, it's real. Music is like that. Most of the time, I don't work out to music. I just work out. I usually watch something on TV. I'll watch fights or something on TV. But every now and then, I work out with music on and my God, you gotta get an extra gear because of the music. You get fired up by a good song. Like say if you're doing Tabata sprints on the Air Dine bike, a good song comes on and you're like, fuck, yeah. It just gives you extra energy. And it feels so good when you're done, when you really worked hard. I love that feeling. It's a drug. Inspiration is a drug. Inspiration through music, inspiration through movies, inspiration through little short Instagram clips. It's a drug. It's crazy how what you listen to through your headphones can completely change the way your brain's thinking and just give you more output physically. Like it's a pretty damn cool. It is cool. We're just very fortunate that there's so many sources of inspiration today. Yeah, no kidding. Infinity. Yeah, it's like no other time that's ever existed. I save them too. I have like a folder on my Instagram with just fucking awesome clips that I could just go to at any time. So good. So good marks. I love that too. Yeah. So how has the bow hunting in Hawaii been? It's been good. It's been good for me. I've been bow hunting, axis deer a lot. I actually, I took the year off hunting elk. I saw it, you were hunting elk and we talked, but yeah, you had a really exciting elk season. I wanna hear about that. But yeah, it's been amazing. I've been not home very much, but the last couple of times I was home in Hawaii, I bow hunted axis deer. I went on this last trip. I killed four deer and that was just lots of fun. Just spent tons of time mostly spooking deer and missing, but four. You won in Hawaii? Yeah, I was. The thing about axis deer hunting is it's so sustainable. It's such a great way to get food because there's no natural predators. They literally have to be hunted. And there's fucking thousands of them. Thousands. Thousands. When we did Lanai, remember we had the dream team. Yeah, such a good trip. So we gotta do it again, man. It was you, me, Cam Haines, John Dudley, Adam Greentree, Remy Warren, Ben O'Brien. Benny. Oh my God. It was such a good crew. What a crew. I know, it was wild. What a great time we had. Yeah, we had the best time ever. And then we did that podcast in my hotel room. Lot of deer got killed that week. Lot of deer, yeah. That gave a lot of people a very delusional perspective of how easy it is to hunt axis deer in Lanai though. Yeah. The guides told me that they had 150 hunters come in after us and one of them was successful. Yeah. One. It's so hard. Everybody else pulled a rifle. It's so hard, yeah. It's funny, I always tell people that. I'm like, I'll see a thousand deer in a day. It's not unusual for me to see a thousand deer in a day. And they're like, how'd you only get one? Or how'd you get none? Like sometimes I go access to your hunting in Hawaii for three days straight and not get one. Yeah, easily. Yeah. Easily. It is so hard to get close enough into bow range where you're trying to get 30 yards away from a deer and there's 200 deer in front of you and a herd. I have a video of a shot, I'll try to find it on my phone, but I have a video of a shot I took at 80 yards and it's a perfect shot. Like this arrow's arcing right towards the vitals at 80 yards. When the arrow's 10 yards away from the deer, he's like, choom, and he's gone. Like not there, 10 yards. Like the arrow's going, I don't know how fast it was going by the time it got to him, but on the way there, it's going 275 feet a second. And when it got close to him, he heard it and he was, they've evolved to get away from tigers. Isn't that insane? Those motherfuckers are so twitchy. They're so fast. Jamie, can you pull up Instagram? Can you go to Matt Miola, his page, one of my really good friends that I bow hunt with in Hawaii. How do you spell Miola? M-E-O-L-A. This guy is one of my favorite human beings, by the way, he's a legend. Really good bow hunter, great surfer, one of the best air surfers in the world. What's an air surfer? Like he's just incredible at airs. Like see that on the upper right? Oh Jesus. Wow. If you scroll down, yeah, if you scroll down, there's one, he's so funny, this guy, great fisherman, great bow hunter. Okay, go back up in the middle right there. No, right in the middle. I think this one, if you see it, it'll show he's taking shots at axis deer and you'll see his arrow in the air, you see it? And watch the deer, it's going perfect. He's like, fuck it, let me get out of here. Look at that, that was a perfect shot and a clean miss at the same time. Yeah, it's nuts, they're so fast. There's another one right here. Well, when we went to Lani, I know it's crazy. I mean, the arrows are going so fast. So fast and the deer are faster. They just duck and run. Yeah, it's crazy. The amount of perfect shots you've made and completely missed is crazy. Yeah, when you see them in slow mo and you realize like, oh, I don't suck. Like these things are fucking grease lightning. But they will make you throw your bow in the air. They'll make you buy a rifle. I know so many people who have tried to go bow hunting for axis deer and end up shooting one with a rifle. Well, with a rifle, it's more ethical because the reality is with a rifle, you're going to 100% get a deer. And if you want to just get, yeah. And if you want to get that meat, that's the way to do it. Because they can't dodge bullets. Yeah, if you're filling the freezer, that's the best way, by far. 100%. By far the best way. The best way to do it. As opposed to rifle hunting. I mean, I shot a pig. I'm not either. Shot a pig last week with a rifle. It was awesome. And after a long ass bow hunt, I just loved like having it on a rest, looking at that fucking reticle and just boom. And he's stoned him and he just dropped dead and now got, you know, a two, he was a big ass fucking pig. So I have, I mean, who knows how many pounds of sausage I'm going to get from this. It's going to be amazing. I'm excited. They make great sausage. But he was a fat boy. I've only killed one animal with a gun. Really? Yeah. The first animal I ever killed. Wow, that's a fricking dinosaur, dude. That's a big ass pig. Yeah. Big ass. A cool looking too. Wild boar. And where I was at in California, they're overwhelmed with them. There's so many. We saw hundreds of pigs every day. Hard to get close to though, right? Yes. Yeah. They're very smart. Like rolling hills. Yeah. Very smart, but with a rifle. It's like so much easier. Yeah. All you just do is just like, we use it, don't move. Boom. There's so much less moving stuff. For sure. When you're at full draw, and you got your anchor point, I have a nose button. So I have to touch this thing to my nose. And I have to make sure that my finger is like right under my jawline. Right. A lot of things going on. Yeah, there's like a lot of shit going on. Shot process. It has to be my elbow, make sure it's up in the air. Oh yeah. And not like this. You know, there's like so many, like you have to like, I have to think the bubble has to be leveled. Yeah. The housing is centered in the peep site. And you're going through all this while you're in this like high pressure situation. Oh yeah. Where this fucking massive elk of a lifetime is standing in front of you at 50 yards. Yeah. And then you got to put the pin on its vitals, then your nerves are going. So you got to make sure you're centering that pin and make sure that pin's not moving too much. And then the shot breaks perfect. But when it does happen, and you hear that whack, and then the elk runs off. And in this case in California, my elk died in literally 10 seconds. It was the fastest I've ever had an elk die. It was a perfect quartering away shot. So it shot through the ribs, like little back. So, you know, quartering away shot. What that means folks is, instead of the animal standing completely sideways, it's slightly facing away. So it's looking away from you slightly, which is actually a much better shot. Because then you're going through like three and a half, four feet of body cavity with a broad head. Yeah, opens up the vitals. Yeah, and the animal died almost instantly. It ran for 80 yards, like as much as it could before it just died. And it died instantly. So let me ask you this. So I'm totally not opposed to rifle hunting at all. I think rifles are great for filling the freezer and totally ethical hunting. But for you that rifle hunts sometimes, and bow hunts sometimes, the feeling of making the perfect archery shot on a bull elk, and the feeling of seeing that arrow go through the air and hit it exactly where you aimed, and that elk going down in 10 seconds, it's a different feeling, right? It's way better. It's much, much, much, much, much more difficult. Because you can have a very ethical shot on a deer with a rifle at 200 yards, where the deer might not have any idea you're even there. So if you, especially if you're prone, so if you have a pack and you arrest your rifle on the pack and you're lying down in your stomach, and you breathe out and relax, that bull is flying so straight, if your rifle is zeroed, and you look at the reticle and you get those crosshairs perfectly on the vitals, that's a dead deer, 100%. Whereas with bow hunting, you've got wind, you've got all sorts of shit going on, and you have to get so close that you're within the animal's senses. When I crept up on this elk that I shot last week, I wore two pairs of wool socks that took my shoes off, so I could creep in, because he was bedded. And it was so cool, because it was the perfect opportunity, because he was bedded and he was looking away from me. I was like, oh, he's dead, he's dead. I just have to do this the right way. And so I started out at 110 yards, and I crept in very slowly, the final 60 yards, because there was a bunch of shit in the way, I had to get to 50. And I got to 60, I was like, I like it, but I don't like these branches and shit, I gotta get to the right, which is another 10 yards, took like another 10 minutes. It was nice and slow, but when I got to 50, and he was still bedded, I'm like, oh, he's dead. I just have to wait for him to stand up. And then eventually he got up, stretches legs out and whack. Were you on your knees or standing out? Standing. I was standing in the tree, this is actually a video of it, it's on my Instagram. Very cool. Pull that video up, because it's dope, because you see how good the Origin camo is. We're working with Origin now, and Origin is Jaco's company, and Cam Haynes, me, and Kip Folks who started Under Armour. Kip's in Under Armour. That's me right up there. So look how well I blend in. And you can actually hear it. Give you the volume so you can hear the whole thing, which is for a bow hunter, listen to this sweet shot. Listen to this. Yeah. That's what you wanna hear. Whack, whack, whack. Great noise right there, it's the best. But it's also interesting, at 50 yards, listen to this. Oh. There's like, whack, half a second. Yeah, definitely. That's enough time there. Like for an axis deer, that motherfucker will be gone. Hard to imagine, but yeah. But the elk, he had no idea what that was. He didn't even look. He just heard the, I mean, he just, the slap into his body, and he was gone. He was gone in 10 seconds. That's the other difference too, like gun hunting and bow hunting, it's so different. I guess there's two super big things that I can think of are super different. It's like, one is if that elk was behind some grass or a brush, you still shoot. Yes. If you aim well, it's gonna go right through that shit. Right. With an arrow, there's no chance. Right. And then the other thing is, if you're going archery hunting for elk or axis deer or something like that, you gotta practice a lot. A lot. With a gun, if that thing is zeroed in, and you've shot a gun before, the animal's dead. I hadn't shot a rifle in over a year. Yeah. And I shot that pig. And going bow hunting? I would never do it. I would never do it. I would never do it. I would never even think about that. That's a huge difference. I would never even consider doing it. Yeah. Right. And be unethical. Right. For sure. And so in Texas, it was 105 degrees in the summer, and I was outside in the summer every day for three hours practicing. And so what I'd do is I'd bring a 64-inch hydro flask, and I'd fill it up with water and liquid IV, and I'd just be drinking electrolytes all day and just shooting. Yeah. And that was the way that I did it. And I would come in, and I would be drenched. I just jumped in the pool. But that's what you have to do. You have to. I have a 40-yard range indoors here, which is great. That's amazing. But it's not enough. I don't shoot things at a really long distance, but I'll practice at 100. And the reason I practice at 100... Oh, Jesus. I'm sorry. What the hell? Well, the reason I practice at 100 is not to shoot something in 100. It's because when I get to 50, I've got it. 50 yards to me is an easy shot. That's what they say, right? You want to practice it twice the distance that is your effective range. Yeah, because when you get nervous, all dependent upon how calm you can stay. And one of the things is certain people like yourself are very good at being calm in high-pressure situations because you've done so many high-pressure things. When you're big wave surfing, I've got to imagine, I've seen some of the fucking waves you ride, that is not to be a crazy rush. And you got to keep your shit together and you're balancing yourself out on the forces of nature, of millions of pounds of water that's working at an insane rate. There's insane forces. And you got to keep your shit together while you're on that. So it makes sense to me why so many surfers get into bow hunting because it's another way that you can kind of stay calm in an insanely pressure-filled situation. Now, if you're a regular guy who maybe played baseball in high school or something like that, you don't have any real pressure situations. Triggered baseball players. I'm on the way. Baseball's hard. When you're at the plate, it's a little bit. I feel like just a baseball player or something, you have no high-pressure situations. In high school, I said in high school. I'm just kidding. I mean, there's a little bit. There's a little bit. I'm just busting your balls. People are just so micro-aggressioned out these days. Yeah, listen. If you like baseball, good for you. But the point is, it's like if you're a guy who just has an office job and there's a little bit of pressure in work or stress, there's a giant difference between managing your physical body under the demands of extreme pressure. For sure. That's what I like. I like scary shit. I like to do things that scare the fuck out of me. That's why I liked fighting. That's why I like jiu-jitsu. That's why I like comedy. I like things that are nerve-wracking. I enjoy it. I don't know why. I enjoy when it's over. I enjoy success. I enjoy pulling it off. No doubt. It was a huge challenge. Yeah. The battle to overcome fear or pressure in a moment is huge. And that's why I love bow hunting. That's why I love it. That moment when there's that elk and you know that this is your time, this is your window. And every single thing that you've done in the last six months, every shot that you've taken, every target you've worn out is just critical on that specific moment. And you have to keep mentally calm, like you said, in the zone and you see that arrow hit exactly where you aimed in that pressure cooker situation. So there's nothing like it. I never thought I'd find something like that besides like surfing really big waves. Now I have, it's incredible. Well, a lot of fighters say that too. And a lot of athletes like Derek Wolf, who played for the NFL, he's found a great relief and a great discipline in bow hunting and he's like really dived full into it. But that's a thing for a lot of veterans that return back. That's a thing that really helps them assimilate and just find some new thing that's like this discipline that they can high pressure. And also for me, when I'm sitting down and I'm eating a meal and I'm cooking a meal for my family and we're all sitting there eating, this is something that I got myself. I harvested this myself. And so there's an intense connection with your food and it's the best meat in the world, the best protein in the world. It's the best for you. I love seeing it on, I really love seeing it on your Instagram that you eat your wild game all the time. I actually know hunters that like, especially when I first started hunting, it was kind of rare, like amongst my hunting friend group to actually make their own game. It just, they just love bow hunting, but it wasn't like the meat part was a huge part of it. Like my wife eats access to your twice a day. She eats it at lunch and she eats it at dinner, almost every day. It's kind of wild, even when I'm not even home. She cooks it for my kids. Well, it's delicious. But yeah, it's insane. Like when I first started hunting, she wasn't super into it. And now that she's eats it every day, she just doesn't want to eat anything else, which is really cool. It's so good for you. It's the most nutrient dense food in the world. And access deer has a amazing flavor. It's so interesting. It's almost sweet. Yeah. You know, access deer has got just like, it's this beautiful, like amazing renewable resource, especially where you live, you literally have to kill them. They have to. There's no predators. Unless you want to bring tigers to Lanai. Like, that's what you'd have to bring. And people will argue with that. But if the problem is in Hawaii, the deer were introduced, there's native forests, there's native birds. They have a huge impact on the land. And then if you just let them go, their numbers get so big. And then there's a drought, like in a place like Lanai, all of a sudden it won't rain for six months and the feed goes away. And then you have 10,000 deer with no food. And what happens is they die these horrible, miserable deaths. So you have to keep those numbers in check. That way, when there is a drought, they still all live. They're much healthier that way. Also, it provides very cheap meat to these people that live there, that it's like the most incredible resource for them. I mean, you go to Lanai, the four seasons in Lanai is excellent. It's such a good resort. And it's so great that you could stay at the four seasons and then go bow hunting. It's incredible. But they have like axis sliders that they sell. What is that farm, what is that restaurant that's there? Malibu Farms, is that what it is? I don't know. I forget what it is. On Lanai? Yeah, oh my God. At the four seasons. They have axis sliders. Oh, they're so fucking good. They're so good. Axis is so, it's such a fantastic meat. But if I had to pick one, it's elk. That's my favorite meat by far. Maybe it's because of the experience and maybe the meat is absolutely delicious too, and I can cook it so many different ways. I make elk stew, I cook sausages, I have some of it turned into jerky. It's like, I eat it all the time. When's the last time you made yourself an elk steak and you got halfway through and you weren't hungry enough for the rest and just threw the rest in the trash? Zero times. Yeah. It always goes in the fridge. That's pretty cool, right? Yeah, but I- Think of all the people who eat half a steak and then just like send it back in a restaurant. I'm good, I'm done. Didn't even think that that's an animal. There's no connection. Very, very different when you've hunted it yourself. And my kids eat it, everybody eats it. And I just think it makes you healthier. It's just better for you. So nutrient dense. And it's- You feel like you can run through a brick wall and eat that. I know, it looks so different too. When you look at it, it's like this dark red meat, like red gold. Yeah. I love it when you get really, really fit and people are like, bro, what are you eating? Yeah. And I'm like, just deer meat. Yeah. And it's true, I think it's literally, that's pretty much all I eat. You know what I mean? It's very, very, very good for you. Yeah, it really is good. If you're trying to get fit and you're working out and you're trying to eat really, really good nutritious food, if you're eating venison, man, shh. Yeah. Crazy results. And if you're a person that doesn't have the patience for bow hunting or doesn't appeal to you, get a rifle. Get a rifle. Oh yeah. Go to Maui, go to Lanai, and you can shoot three or four deer. Or Texas. Yeah, or Texas. Yeah. There's a lot of them in Texas. Yeah. It's a little weirder because a lot of these places are these high fence places where these animals are essentially contained in a park. Yeah. It's a different thing. That's not my type of hunting, but if you're just going for the meat. Right. Like if you're going for the meat, I don't care, shoot them in a fence. Don't shoot them in a fence. It doesn't even matter. You know what I mean? You're trying to feel the freezer. I go to, one of the things that I also find is that you really need practice. Like you don't want your first shot of the year on a live animal to be an elk. That's like a 350 elk in Utah that's going through the wood and you got a small gap to shoot it. You're like, ah! Yeah. You really would need reps. And pigs provide the best reps in Texas. Most definitely. They have to kill them. They're in a fucking everywhere. It's a plague. There's a friend of mine who has a friend of mine, my friend Tyler, shout out to Archery Country, best bow shop in the world. It's out here in Austin. We go to, there's a hunting lease that he has and we go out there and it's fucking swarming with pigs. Yeah. You can practice on pigs. You get this amazing meat from those pigs and you can get those shots in, which I think are critical. There's so many bases you have to cover if you want to be a successful bow hunter. And one of the things I just shout out is Joel Turner because this shot IQ system that Joel Turner has developed, he's a sniper and he worked with the SWAT teams and he developed, he was trying to figure out what is it about these high pressure situations that cause people to flinch and panic and get target panic and fuck up shots and especially in a hostage situation like with a sniper, it's insanely important that you keep your shit together because you might have to make a headshot on someone who has a knife to a hostage. You can't mess that up. You can't mess that up. And so Joel researched what happens to the mind and what are closed loop and open loop systems. An open loop system is like when you're swinging a bat at a ball. So like you can't stop it. You're swinging that bat and once you initiate that movement, it's going, it's going. Closed loop system is at any time you can stop. So during the process of a shot, you are well aware of what, you're not just like hammering the trigger and flinching and panicking. What you're doing is going through this very specific shot process. I have things that I say to myself in my mind. While it's going on, I keep talking to myself so I'm never flinching and panicking and freaking out. I stay in my shot process. And because of Joel, I've been much, much better at like keeping my shit together during those. And I've been doing that for about five years now. Is that a book or a podcast or something? He's got a website. What is it called? ShotIQ.com? And it's just information that you consume and then you practice it? Well, he breaks it down to you. One of the things that he makes- Is it like video based, the stuff he does? Yeah, video based. I'll have to check that out. He talks about, and he's thoroughly researched this. I mean, he keeps improving it and updating it but I know like world-class archers like Levi Morgan who use it, who's like literally the greatest archer of all time. He uses it. And these guys use it in order to have a process that you utilize while you're in the middle of a shot to keep talking yourself. Cam Haynes developed his own process on his own and didn't necessarily know that that's what he was doing. He just knew what was best for him. And what he does is he puts the pin on the animal and then he says to himself, keep the pin on him, keep the pin on him, keep the pin on him, keep the pin on him, boom, the shot breaks. Interesting. But he's going through it in his mind, like when he's at full drawn and animal, he's like, keep the pin on him, keep the pin on him, and the shot breaks. Whereas some people like they see the, when they just fucking flinch and then they fucking hit him in the antlers. So many people like freak out in that moment. And yeah, and having a process, I think the biggest thing is just, even if your process isn't perfect, having a process to think about instead of thinking about the pressure, start thinking about that moment. When you're just sitting there at full drawn, and you're like, hey, pin on the animal, get my anchor really good, look at the bubble, okay, first pin for sure, or third pin for sure. He's at 50, it's a third pin or whatever it is. Having that process and then high elbow, pull through, pull through the shot, and then like, you know. And follow the arrow. Yeah, follow through, yeah. It's, I think just having that process and like really talking to yourself in that pressure cooker moment is the way for sure. Remy has an interesting thing he says too. Remy says, be the arrow. Oh really? Which I like. I incorporated that too. I like that, this idea of be the arrow. Like you are literally thinking you are the arrow. You know where you want that arrow to go. You're concentrating on it, be the arrow. And then when he releases that shot, he's like following it, he like is the arrow. And then whack, and you know, very few people are more successful than Remy. One of my bow hunting mentors, Jeff, he used to take me bow hunting when I was a lot younger. And he goes, you know what, I used to always tell myself when I was at full drawn right before the arrow broke, he said I would look at the animal, the last thing I would do is say, you're gonna fucking die. Ooh, that's intense. And it sounds kind of messed up. There's all these non hunters listening to this, like whoa, that's really messed up. But he goes, like, think about it, like psychologically, that's what you're doing in that moment. And you gotta like really embrace that instead of hoping, instead of coming from a perspective of hope. Like, oh, I hope that arrow gets there in the right spot. I hope I don't mess this up. It's like that confirmation in your mind telling yourself that this is what you're doing here. This is the intention, the arrow's gonna go there, and that's what's gonna happen. And believing instead of hoping, you know, that's the difference. But like the way he said it was interesting, but he's like, it's powerful, honestly. He's like, so having a process and being super confident that all the work is paying off in the moment, you're gonna make that shot is key. It is a discipline. And if you want to take this journey, you have to understand it's a discipline and it requires work. It requires a lot of work and a lot of thinking and it's gonna be a lot of pressure. But that's what I like about it. Yeah. And again, at the end, the end result is it's so rewarding. Yeah. Isn't it crazy? I don't know if this is gonna take us down a rabbit hole, but. I like rabbit holes. I was just tripping the fact that we're here in your studio, talking about bow hunting and food. And there's a war. There's like people putting missiles together into a machine, like some launcher thing right now. And, psh, psh, psh. Israel's about to invade Gaza. Right at this moment. They're talking about a ground invasion of Gaza and they're preparing for it. That's just. So gnarly. This is terrifying. It's so terrifying because we're so close to World War III. We're so close. It's no joke, man. It's really, that really feels like that's what's happening. It is happening. It scares the fucking shit out of me. Yeah, it does me too. And someone from the government was just having some sort of a press conference where they're saying, you know, we are at war and war is messy. And this is, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Shouldn't we be doing everything we can to avoid this? Every single possible thing that we can to avoid this. And it doesn't seem like they look ahead. They just go, here's what we gotta do. Right. Here's what we have to do. Like I get it. Like what happened on October 7th, was it? It was horrible. Absolute atrocity and like barbaric and absolutely terrible. And I get it. You have to retaliate and you have to do what you gotta do. But how do you do that? Like, of course you want to get rid of Hamas. That sounds great. You know what I mean? I completely support that. I think everybody supports that for the most part. But how do you do that without so much collateral damage? It's ridiculous. Even more important than that is fast forward five years from now. What happens? What are the repercussions? Yeah. Especially around that whole area with all those Arab countries. And we're backing that. We're backing them killing all these people there. And we're also backing Ukraine against Russia. And now it's looked like we're gonna back Taiwan. We just sent an aid package to Taiwan, billions of dollars, to Taiwan. It's like we're opposing all these, you know what I mean? We're opposing China, Russia, and now these Arab countries. Yeah, it's scary, man. I'm not the person to talk politics, or international military strategy, but just watching the news and trying not to. And just try, and it's funny, because I've always known about Israel and Palestine just from what I hear on the news and just sort of hearing, kind of understanding on the most surface level. And it wasn't until now, age 51, where I was actually, I'd been watching, listening to podcasts, watching documentaries, trying to educate myself and figure out what this conflict, how it came to be, what the history was. And it's, the more I try to learn about it, the more complicated it seems. Yeah, it's terrifying. It's terrifying and the consequences for all of us are so grave. Because if it does go completely sideways, if someone goes nuclear, we're fucked. We're fucked, the world's fucked. I mean, we're getting knocked back into the Stone Age if we're lucky, if we're lucky. If we're not lucky, the whole human race gets wiped out. And all it takes is one person to go rogue. Yeah. And like you saw the, like for Hamas to do what they did in Israel, that was totally strategic. They didn't do it, they didn't like do all that barbaric shit in that way, like just to prove a point. It was super, like they wanted a crazy emotional response. They were trying to escalate the situation, obviously, right? Like you would never do that without going, what is this gonna do? It's obviously they're gonna fall on airstrikes, ground invasion. It's pretty obvious that that's gonna happen. So they basically wanted that to happen. They wanted, like I listened to the Coleman Hughes podcast. You just had Coleman on the show a couple days ago, whatever that was. The way he broke that down, how he simplified everything and like he made so much sense out of it. But I just can't stop thinking about the repercussions of retaliation and escalation and getting every single other country involved. And it's just wild. When it gets me is late at night when I'm alone. This was even before the Hamas invasion. It was just thinking about Ukraine and Russia. I would be at home and just go through the newsfeed and read some stories and then everyone in my house would be asleep and I'd be awake and I'd just go and fuck. Is this the last days of normal civilization? Because every movie where we ascend into the apocalypse or descend into the apocalypse, that's how it starts. It's like there's normal life, dropping your kids off at school, bye honey, I love you. And then hours later, sirens, bombs, powers off, no water, no food, people are struggling. It's just like if nuclear bombs start going off, the world will be unrecognizable. There will be, we will be right back to barbaric, stone age monsters in a matter of months, a matter of weeks, days even. There's no power, no food, no nothing. The fucking border's been invaded by hundreds of thousands of illegals. How many of them are militants? How many of them have snuck in across the border and are forming terror cells? We don't know. I mean, that's the giant fear. That's for sure happening. For sure. There's no doubt. I read this thing that there's like six to 10 million people that came across the southern border in the last four to five years. That's as many people that live in New York City. And then like a crazy increase in people coming across the northern border. Yeah, it's nuts. And I see it. I've been in California a lot the last few months. It's insane how many more people are just, obviously all of a sudden just appearing, like getting dropped off on street corners with buses. Literally just in the middle of nowhere. They literally just got off the bus with a cell phone. But look at New York City. When Cuomo is explaining how New York City literally has a mandate to house its homeless. And that was supposed to be the people that lived there that were down in their lock. And now it's people that have come in from other cities and or other countries rather illegally. And they're trying to make it so that those people can vote. And do you see what they're doing with people from Venezuela? That's so crazy. They're sending people back from Venezuela. Only from Venezuela. Yeah, because Venezuela opposed the socialism. So they're not gonna vote Democratic. They don't want those people. That's crazy. This is fucking wild. It's crazy how it's so odd. Like when you start thinking about it like that, that sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it's like totally political, all these moves. 100%. They're literally importing Democratic voters. They think by allowing the borders to be porous and by giving people aid and giving people housing that you're essentially guaranteeing that if you can rig it so that those people are allowed to vote, those people are gonna vote Democratic. And if you could say that, oh, voter ID is racist, like what? Voter ID is racist. That's crazy. They think that. And they don't think that. They don't think that. They know that that's not true. It's horseshit. It's all political horseshit, but that's unfortunately the level of discourse that we have today, especially with all the virtue signaling on social media and all the people clamoring to prove that they're the most progressive and the most open-minded and equitable. And we're all down for inclusivity and like, yeah, there's gonna be repercussions to all that for sure. I mean, you see the videos in New York City and Chicago and these places where there's dropping all these people off, they'll play video 500 people in a row and be like two women. And almost everyone's like between 20 and 30 years old. It's all military age dudes. Like, what do you think is gonna happen five years from now? With like 10 million illegal immigrants here. Also, if you're importing people that have come from horrible crime ravaged parts of the world, that's what they grew up with. That's their accustomed to. And if you also have a defunding of the police and you also have a complete disrespect for law enforcement in this country, it's a recipe for disaster. Well, and think of it, it's so crazy because everybody has a smartphone these days, even in pretty much every country, people have smartphone and access to the internet. There's 8 billion people on the planet. The US has an incredible, like the lifestyle, like the normal lifestyle in America is crazy, like a joke, how good it is. Like people got it so good in this country, it's insane. 8 billion people are looking at that with social media and they're seeing on the news, thousands and thousands and thousands of people walking across straight into the US and getting all these incredible things in return for doing it. Like I would be wanting to come here too if I was from some fucked up country. 100%. So you can't blame them at all. I don't even blame, I would 100% be one of those people making their way across. If I lived in Guatemala or wherever, all I had to do was hike for a couple of weeks and I could be in America and get a landscaping job and feed my family. You get a bus ticket to Tijuana or wherever and then just walk across the border, sweet. It's crazy. And then I feel like nobody agrees that having a secure border is a bad idea. I think everyone thinks that a secure border is a good idea. Well, it became a political talking point during the Trump administration because people wanted to label Trump as racist and they wanted to label the wall as racist. But meanwhile, Obama was so dumb. Obama was talking about that. Obama was talking about that in 2013, that we have to secure our borders. And I was reading that it would cost between four and six billion to finish the wall and we sent $100 billion to Ukraine. We accidentally over sent six billion to Ukraine. That's enough to finish the wall and secure the border. That's pretty wild. Well, they need more than that really because people climb that wall. Well, you had drones and all these. They need reinforcements. They need patrols. They need law enforcement. That's what they need. Border enforcement. They're terribly undermanned. And everybody that I know, like my military friends that have gone down there and visited, like Tim Kennedy is always telling me, you've got to go down there. You should just go see what's happening. And he was telling me this two years ago. He was like two years ago, it's fucking nuts. And now it's even worse. It's great. I feel like the problems are like slowly than suddenly with that type of thing. Where like you don't really realize it's like the, you know, like in New York, they're like, it's a sanctuary city. Everybody's welcome in New York City. Just come here. And then like next you know, every single immigrant that went there was getting like a three to $500 hotel room each night. And everybody thought that was a good idea. And it's just like, that's what I mean. Like slowly then suddenly, you don't really see the problems until it's overwhelming. Well, the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City is no longer a hotel. I stayed there before the Roosevelt. The last time I was really in New York City, I stayed at the Roosevelt. The Roosevelt Hotel is now a complete housing center for migrants. Oh man. See if you can find videos of the Roosevelt Hotel today. Because the restaurants no longer a restaurant, the hotels no longer a hotel. It's crazy. It's 100% for migrants and it's overwhelmed and it's more than to capacity. And New York City from most people I talked to who live there is a shit show now. It's much more of a shit show than it was. This is the Roosevelt Hotel. Inside Manhattan's hotel there's the new Ellis Island. It's crazy man. It's crazy. Yeah, I was just in Tijuana for a week, Joe. Very, way fewer homeless people in Tijuana. Way fewer than in America, than in California. No fentanyl zombies all over the street. It's the weirdest thing. I went to T.J. thinking it was gonna be super dangerous. I had all these assumptions. I felt totally safe. I ate five star restaurants right across the street from where I was staying. I was staying at the Hyatt Killer Hotel right across the street. Three incredible restaurants. It felt completely safe. And what happened in California, there are zombies everywhere. The fentanyl problem is so out of control. Insane. Yeah, we're fucked. We're fucked. Did you see this about fentanyl recently? Mexico's Cidetlano Cartel's message to members, stop making fentanyl or die. Good. Crime group yields to intensifying US law enforcement pressure and is kidnapping or killing producers who defy its ban on trafficking the opioid. Good. Interesting. Good. I'm with them. I wonder why. Well, I mean, it's fucking up their business. Their business is selling cocaine. And then these guys make fentanyl and they cut the cocaine with fentanyl and people are dying. And then law enforcement pressure starts ramping up. And then what they're really worried about is an invasion. The military decides to go after the cartel. The cartels are fucked. I mean, they start air striking cartels with jets. Not really. Yeah, that's a wrap. Crazy. How crazy is it how the fentanyl these days is mixed with Tranq or it's Tranq? Have you heard of that? What's Tranq? I can't believe you haven't heard of this. Tranq with a Q. So Tranq is fentanyl mixed with a horse Tranqalizer. So the horse Tranqalizer makes the fentanyl last much longer is my understanding. Jamie's probably looking it up right now, but the Tranq is a horse Tranqalizer. They mix it with fentanyl, I think to make it last longer and make it more powerful. And the fucked up thing is it's so toxic. They all inject it. It's so toxic that it's so poisonous to your body that your body's trying to get rid of it. So it creates these massive sores where the drug is trying to get out. I saw that in Russia. Yeah, and people are, no, it's here now, dude, big time. People are getting sepsis and having to get their limbs amputated. It's really, really gnarly. Go back to that article that you were just posting. This is the DA like message about it. Okay, it says, xylazine is making the deadliest drug threat in our country. That our country has ever faced, fentanyl even deadlier. Said administrator Milgram. The DEA sees xylazine and fentanyl mixtures in 48 of 50 states. The DEA laboratory system is reporting that in 2022, apparently, approximately rather, 23% of fentanyl powder and 7% of fentanyl pills seized by the DEA contains xylazine. Yeah, I have a weird, I don't know if obsession's the right word, but I like watching like drug documentaries and like interviews with like drug addicts and like, DEA agents, like all that kind of stuff is just kind of fascinating to me because I don't have a drug problem and just interesting to me how people like, well choose to go down that road over and over and over, even though it just seems like the worst thing ever. But the addicts, when they talk about being on fentanyl, they'll choose the xylazine now with the fentanyl because it's much better. And they know they're gonna die from it like really soon and they keep choosing it. Oh. It's pretty wild. And if you're a heroin addict, you can't even find heroin these days. You can't get heroin, it's all fentanyl. Really? Yeah. I've had a few different friends die from fentanyl. They thought they were buying like a bag of cocaine and partying and just dropped dead. Yeah. That happened to a group of comedians in LA recently. It's so messed up. It's fucking horrible. It's the number one killer, I think, of people and it's 18 to 49, something nuts like that. It's like 100,000 people a year dying of overdoses. What do you think about parents sending test kits with kids to go to parties so they can test the drugs? Well, it's certainly better than not testing it and taking it. Right. Obviously the best thing would be to don't take any drugs. But especially when kids are drinking, all your judgment goes out the window. You're not thinking straight, you're drunk, and then someone offers Coke and there's peer pressure and you're like, I'll try it. And then next thing you know, you're dead. If there was a method of testing, and I know they use that a lot at raves, because that was one of the issues at raves, was that people were buying MDMA and that was laced with fentanyl. For sure. You're gonna wind up overdosing with that. Yeah. That's fucking scary shit, man. Also, parents are sending their kids Narcan, or Narcan. Narcan. Narcan to help them survive an overdose. Well, and to help other people. Yeah. I heard a lot of kids in Portland are being trained and sending their kids to school with Narcan. And they're trained to give Narcan to heroin addicts or to fentanyl addicts. Which is crazy. That's the other thing they say in those documentaries, they always interview the addicts and they say, how many times have you, they say, have you OD'd before? And they're all like, yeah, of course. And they're, how many times? They all say countless, they don't know. Imagine OD'ing so many times where you literally do not know how many times it's been. And then going straight back and getting high again, like with a needle. Yeah, it's nuts. It's a real crisis. Yeah, it really is a crisis. I mean, you have kids, I have kids, so these are things that are like totally on the front burner for me. Like, to me, I'm never sending my kids to a party with test kits. That's not like, I feel like talking to them from a super young age, totally having super transparent, hard to heart talks with them about friends that I've had that thought they were getting one drug and it was laced with this shit that is completely deadly and dropping dead. Just drugs are different, man. They're not how it was when we were kids. When we were kids, like people would experiment, it was completely normal. I feel like those days are over in some aspects. For sure, well, the real problem, and this is a very uncomfortable discussion, but the real problem is that drug prohibition has made criminals the only source of drugs. And you have no idea what you're getting. For sure. And that's the problem. And if you make drugs legal, all drugs legal, you're gonna have a bunch of people that are doing drugs that wouldn't do drugs if they were illegal. So you have that problem. And so how do you mitigate that? How long does it take for the dust settles and life normalizes? Because if you think about the prohibition in the United States, prohibition of alcohol in the United States propped up the mob. Everybody knows that. It's a fact. It's widely, openly discussed. The only people that were selling the alcohol were the people that were criminals. They made a shitload of money. They amassed massive power because of that. And they used it. They used it to control cities. And until they got infiltrated and the mob got broken up, they, for a long time, they reaped the rewards of the power that they started to develop during prohibition. And that's exactly what you're seeing with the cartels. The reason why the cartels have so much power is because there's so much demand for illegal drugs in the United States. For sure. And that's not going away. Well, it's not going away. No. People have always wanted to do drugs. There's always gonna be a certain lost segment of our population that wants to escape reality with some fucking hardcore shit that puts them in a trance. Yeah. Well, they're finding it. Yeah. If they want that, it's everywhere. What is Hawaii's problems? What is like on the Big Island? What are the main drug problems? I mean, it's been meth for the most part, for like the last 20 years. That's taken a toll. There's no doubt about it. Meth has been like probably the biggest problem, but now it's turning into fentanyl. Now it's turning into fentanyl. One of the little girls in my daughter's circle of friends was on Instagram Live. This was like two years ago. A girl was like 12 years old. She was like on Instagram Live. No one was home at her house, and she went in her mom's medicine cabinet, and she found a little baggie of white powder. Oh, God. And chopped it up in a line on Instagram Live. She just had her friends or whatever, like her 10, 15 friends that follow her, like a little girl, and was like, do you hear me? And she snorted it. It was pure fentanyl. Oh, God. And it turns out her mom was selling it. That was on the big island, and my daughter's little circle of friends. That's happening everywhere, man. That's my little tiny town that I feel is like a little town, like a little farm town that grows coffee, and that's where you surf and hang out. It's like super mellow, but somehow that's really happening. Those drugs have infiltrated every last little corner of our country. It's wild, man. Wild. And the alternative doesn't seem appealing either. The alternative of making heroin and cocaine legal at stores, that scares the shit out of me too. Yeah. It's weird that it's like regional. Like it's really bad in Canada. Horrible, the drug epidemic. Like I was in, not Toronto, it's the other giant city on the West Coast. Vancouver? Vancouver. Holy crap. Thousands and thousands and thousands of homeless people, homeless fentanyl zombies all over these big city blocks, like thousands of them, slumped over. Have you seen that when they get slumped over? That's the tranq, so that's the tranquilizer thing. So they get super high and they're tranquilizer, so they basically are like, they don't fall, but they swing. But I feel like in Canada, it's huge. In the US, it's huge. But I just was, I was in France and Spain, none of that. Yeah. None of that. Well, they didn't have the same opioid crisis that we had caused by the Sackler family and what they did with the OxyContin pills where they just made, you know, who knows how many hundreds of thousands of people, addicts in this country. Crazy. If not millions. I mean, how many millions of lives are ruined? Because not just the people that, their families, everything gets devastated, everything gets ruined. The most fascinating part, I think, about that series was, I mean, there were so many fascinating things about that series, but there was a window of time where no one knew what it was, what OxyContin was. No one knew. Just had his name and it made you feel good and it took your pain away and took you out of whatever stress you were feeling. Now, now we know about it. There's kind of no excuse now for the kids coming up that are educated, like, hey, opioids, they're fucking deadly. OxyContin, all these, like any of these opioids are highly addictive. They're pretty much all gonna kill you or lead you down this horrible road to something horrible. But there was a window of time where literally no one knew what that stuff was. I remember it went through my whole, not my whole, but a group of my friends all got hooked on that junk right away when no one knew what OxyContin was. Yeah, well, that documentary, that series, the Netflix series, Painkiller is absolutely terrifying because it shows you how corrupt the system is and how they were able to prescribe this and make this thing and pass it where it can be prescribed to people. Where when we were kids, when I was a kid, no one did heroin. It wasn't like an issue. If someone was doing heroin, that guy's off the rails. Like, oh, you hear Mike's doing heroin, jeez. Like, Mike's gone. You would think that guy's gone. He's suicidal. He's just fucking shooting up. Like, I knew a couple of comedians that did heroin and I was like, oh my God. And they wind up dying. The two that I know that I was pretty aware of, they wind up dying from heroin. And it's just, heroin was rare. Yeah. And then- And a big choice. Yeah. It was a big choice. A big choice. But now it's just- And doctors were prescribing it. Thousands and thousands and thousands of doctors were prescribing it. Because it was believed to be non-addictive and safe. We're also, we heard that that's safe and effective. Yeah. Jeez dude. I know we never learned, we never learned. Well, some people learn, but it's so difficult to be completely informed. And the problem also is that young people, they make bad decisions. They're young, they don't have a lot of life experience. And they think they're just gonna party and other people are partying. It's no big deal. I'll just have fun. Yeah, there's no doubt. And I think that OxyContin thing was the, at least in my lifetime was the first time I started seeing people start to distrust doctors. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like they were starting to look at doctors, like especially after those documentaries came out in those docu-series. What was the other one called? Dopesick. Dopesick. Cause doctors were like all of a sudden on board with this whole prescription thing and over prescribing like crazy and like buying it hook, line and sink or whatever those pharma companies were telling them. And then that, and then with the whole COVID thing, it just accelerated that whole distrust. I feel like that's a really sad thing. When I was a kid, you just trusted your doctors implicitly. I would call my personal doctor and ask him anything and believe anything they said. These days, if I have a broken arm, I'm gonna go to the doctor. If I have something super specific, I'll go to the doctor. But it's crazy. Well, it's also- I feel like it's different. It's changed now. Doctors are captured by a system and doctors, they're essentially rule followers. There's a very rigid system that like the FDA forbade them from prescribing ivermectin during COVID, which is wild. Wild. Because now it's legal to prescribe. Yeah. Just like now they allowed it to prescribe and there's, I don't know who's right or who's wrong, but there's a lot of randomized controlled trials that show that it's effective. So like, what the fuck is that all about? Like, what did they do? Well, I'll tell you what they did. There was a cheap and effective drug that is generic. So they can't make any money off of it. And then there's this other thing that they can make billions of dollars off. So they pushed that. And anyone that supported that cheap and effective drug, they were marginalized. They were mocked and that was the media was involved in it because the amount of money that these pharmaceutical drug companies spend on media advertisement, that's the giant problem. So crazy. There's only two countries in the whole world that allow pharmaceutical drug companies to advertise on TV. And that's the United States and New Zealand. And New Zealand is much more restrictive than the United States is. And the most fucked up thing is not only are they able to advertise in the US, they're able to advertise on our news channels. Exactly. They're able to prop up our whole media system. And then the media can't say anything about pharmaceutical drug side effects. Exactly. I mean, they're captured. So crazy. But that's also led to their demise. They looked at short term profits over long term sustainability because the trust in mainstream media is at an all time low. COVID ruined their trust. Yeah, ruined it. CNN recently got the lowest ratings it's had since like 1991. They got 43,000 people watching one of those Anderson Cooper shows. I heard that. That's crazy. That's crazy. Crazy. That's crazy. Whitney Cummings said that she goes, if I had 43,000 people that watched my Instagram reel, I'd kill myself. That's insane, right? That's insane. It's crazy that people with large personal platforms are bigger than mainstream media. Way bigger. Yeah. And amazing. It's good. It is amazing. It's a good thing. I mean, look at Mr. Beast. What does he have? Like 100 million YouTube subscribers? There's not a show on earth that's like that. There's not a show on earth that's bigger than that. Yeah. But yeah, I feel like you're right. It's like, there's definitely never been worse. I think that. They did it to themselves. Yeah. I mean, they all did it to themselves. I mean, and they do it to themselves constantly. They did it to themselves with this Hamas Israel invasion, with the bombing of the hospital, like all that stuff. You can see they're elated to tell the news right now. Yeah. They seem like they're so excited that they have something that people are just like locked onto. They're the only ones who win in these wars, those media companies. Well, I mean, it's kind of ironic that that's how, literally how they made Trump by constantly reporting on the stupid things that he would say and the ridiculous things that he would say. They would think they were getting him, but all they were doing was giving him more attention. And all they were doing is making him bigger, making his profile bigger. And every time they attacked him, he just got bigger. And now that people have a distrust in media, now it works even the opposite way. It's even more ridiculous rather. No one trusts them anymore. So anytime they say anything, people go, what's really going on? This is kind of off topic, but I meant to ask you about this. Isn't it funny that you are painted as a right-winger? Solaris. And I don't think you're a left-winger. I don't think you're a right-winger. I don't even know. Way more left-wing than I'm right-wing. But it's funny that if you asked, like the whole left basically thinks you're right. You know what I mean? But anybody who's kind of semi-progressive or whatever would think that you are a right-winger, right? Because that's how they depict you in the news on the left, right? CNN and all that stuff, right? Well, also I'd look like I would be a right-winger. I'm bald, I have muscles, tattoos, I bow hunt, and I do cage fighting commentary. There's a lot of reasons why you could lay. You fit the stereotype. But how many presidential candidates have you had on this show? Quite a few. Okay, let's name them. Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, Andrew Yang, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Gary Johnson. Is that it? Is that everybody? Well, RFK, Tulsi, and Bernie. Yeah, Gary Johnson is libertarian. They're Democrats. They're all Democrats. Yeah. So I just think it's kind of funny that everybody, all these people think you're a right-winger. I've not a single Republican candidate for governor, for president, for anything. But I've never heard that you're biased from not having Republicans on your show. No. Do you know what I mean? That's kind of where they leave that out. Well, it's just the mainstream media. They don't like other people having influence and they try to attack them. One of the best ways to marginalize someone or use it as a pejorative, call them far right. They like to call me far right. Well, the only thing that I'm right-wing about is discipline. I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in freedom of speech, which is crazy that that's right-wing now. There's so many tenants that used to be of the left that are now attributed to the right, which is crazy. Distrust in the government, all of a sudden that's- It's really changed, right? Yeah, it's weird. Distrust of the government used to be left-wing. Promotion of free speech used to be left-wing. But when it comes to social safety nets and universal healthcare, basic income, things like that, I'm very left-wing. I believe that there's people that are down on their luck and they need to be helped, but I also believe in discipline. And I also believe that the right to bear arms is probably the only thing that kept us from becoming Australia during the pandemic. You see what fucking happened to Australia in the pandemic. 100% agree. They were just locking people up. They were outside that didn't have their mask over their nose. Yeah. I mean, it was bananas. They were locking people up for social media posts. Did you see what happened in Canada? These guys got arrested for a conversation that they were having on a train? No, but Australia and Canada turned into full China. Yeah, it's full authoritarian. I've been going to Australia since I was 16 years old, one of my favorite countries in the world. Never in a million. And Australians have this sense of pride and they don't give a fuck. They're rugged. They're like rugged. No one can tell them what to do. It was crazy to see that during COVID where they basically had to all comply or else, and it was like real. They got in so much trouble if they didn't. It was insane. And you're right. That's the biggest difference. Thank God. That's really the only difference. And I have a couple Australian friends that said that. Like older, really intelligent Australian friends that were like, dude, the most important thing you have in America is the Second Amendment. It's the thing that keeps the First Amendment alive. Yeah. Because the freedom of speech backed by the Second Amendment. And people don't want to believe that. And they want to point to school shootings. But here's another thing they didn't want to point to when it comes to school shootings. What about the instances of psychotropic drugs that are used by people who turn out to be school shooters? Is there a correlation? Is there a causation? And nobody wants to discuss that. That's another thing that never gets discussed on mainstream media because of the fact that they're all compromised by the pharmaceutical drug companies. There's a huge number of these people that commit these mass atrocities that are on psychiatric drugs. Now is it because they were already sick, already crazy? And that's what caused them to do that, perhaps? Is it because a lot of these disassociatives and a lot of these SSRIs and a lot of these different things cause people to think and behave in very bizarre ways? There's no doubt. It has to. Yeah. There has to be some sort of a connection. The fact that it's not being investigated, that it's not being discussed, and if you bring it up, you're a fucking loon, that to me is crazy. And that's the weirdest thing that the mainstream media has done to try to control a narrative, specifically to protect their interest because they are being funded by the pharmaceutical drug companies. And it's not for the greater good of anybody, including the people that run the pharmaceutical drug companies. Look, there's drugs that they should sell that are great. They produce drugs that save people's lives, that help people. For sure. It's not like demonizing the pharmaceutical drug industry. It's not them. It's the people that run the companies that are money people. The money people just wanna make money. Yeah. What was the guy's name that litigated against pharmaceutical drug companies for Vioxx? Do you remember his name? One of the things, Vioxx was like an anti-inflammatory, similar to ibuprofen, but caused horrible side effects. A friend of mine had a stroke when he was on it, and it killed somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 to 60,000 Americans. And in internal emails, they said it's going to cause all these problems. They listed all the medical problems that were off, but we're going to do well with this. Yeah, John Abramson. Wow. So John Abramson, it says Joe Rogan's New Year's Eve tutorial on corporate crime in the pharmaceutical industry. So this was the drug, John Abramson, he's the author of a new book, Sickening How Big Pharma Broke American Healthcare and How He Can Repair It. And he's a lecturer at Harvard Medical School, and the author of a 2004 book, Overdosed America, The Broken Promise of American Medicine. And the way he described their internal conversations about these drugs is absolutely terrifying, because it's the money people, the people that are just looking at their baseline profits, the responsibility they have to their shareholders, and what they need to do to constantly make more money. Their job is to always make more money. And they're willing to do- No doubt. Really awful shit and push things that aren't even effective, don't even work any better than ibuprofen. And they're willing to push this stuff on people and tell them, hey, you got arthritis, we got a cure. Right. And I feel like a lot of times when people have mental health issues and they go and seek help, a lot of times they get put on drugs like immediately, without other, and nowadays there's a lot of other options. There's brain treatment, there's like hallucinogenics that they're doing, there's a lot of different options now. And I feel like the pharmaceutical options should be maybe the last option in some situations. Yeah, in many, many situations. And in some situations it's a good option. And that needs to be addressed too. It's not binary. There's some people that I'm friends with that got on antidepressants and it changed their life, got them out of a funk and allowed them to make changes and then slowly weaned on, my friend Ari, he got on them and then eventually got off of them. And he changed his life. He got much more successful and happy and then realized like, okay, now I'm happy, now I'm successful. I need to get myself off of this stuff and stayed happy and stayed successful. It's interesting when you start making different, like when you get your brain pretty good, then you start making different life choices, you get healthier all around and maybe successful in your work and you start having meaningful relationships with people, it helps heal your brain. You know what I mean? It helps heal your perspective as well. It can make a significant difference. How you view life. But that's a big one with psychedelics. But the problem with psychedelics is they're not profitable. And you go to Peru and fucking take a brew in the jungle that they make out of leaves and it fixes your life. There's not a lot of money in that. And you definitely don't get people addicted to it. I think it's starting to emerge though in some of these clinics that are like alternative mental health type of places. I've been doing, but I think I talked to you about this in the past, but I've been doing like a bit of brain treatment. So like years ago when I was surfing a lot of really big waves, I had kind of a cluster of concussions. Over like a six year period, I had five really bad concussions and they were all like pretty close to each other and a couple of them were really, really bad. Anyway, I started noticing some kind of mental health issues, not super bad and not extreme, but it was starting to creep in. Like my mood started kind of going downhill. I started seeing that I was kind of getting more and more pessimistic. Didn't like being around people even more so than like I'm kind of, I'm not the most social person, but I started like having like anxiety about going in like big groups of people, hanging out with big groups of people, going to like public functions and stuff like that would really freak me out. Now I was also getting pretty like mentally sloppy, like a lot of brain fog. My mental clarity was getting worse and worse. So being super forgetful. Anyway, I met a guy who has like a brain treatment center in California. So I went and got an EEG it's called. So they measure like your brain function, your brain activity, and they get like all this data about your brain. And then I had some brain treatment and then they sent me a, I got this at home brain treatment machine. Basically I put this thing on my head in the mornings and for 30 minutes. Yeah, it has electrical pulses that goes through and into your brain and stimulates brain activity. Anyway, I hadn't had my EEG done in a long, long time. And I was just in California and I was really curious because I can, so my machine at home is programmed, its protocol is just for my brain, specifically for my brain based off my EEG. And so I wanted to get a new EEG updated so I can update my protocol at home. So it works on my brain how it is now instead of how it was two years ago. I didn't know if there was a difference or not. So I got an EEG the other day, talked to the neuroscience for like half an hour on a zoom call. He walked me through my chart for my EEG two years ago, my chart now. And he's like, what have you been doing? And I'm like, oh, I've had some, you know, I have a machine at home doing my brain treatment but I'm never home and I don't do that much. And he was like, what is there anything else that could like make your brain better because we're seeing significant improvements in your brain function? It is wild. That is wild. And I've noticed it. I've noticed like more mental clarity, better mood. And I've done a couple of different things. I told him about the stem cell treatment but it was right before that. So I don't think that there was like a correlation between my current stem cell treatment and this EEG. And he's like, what else have you been doing? And I told him, I started TRT just over a year ago. And after I started TRT, I felt a significant improvement in my mood and my mental clarity and my energy. Well, that is one of the things that happens with concussions, especially multiple concussions is it damages your endocrine system, damages the pituitary gland which is apparently very sensitive. And my good friend, Dr. Mark Gordon, who's done a lot of work on traumatic brain injuries with veterans and with football players and fighters, they found that a significant number of them suffer from low testosterone and low hormones because their brain is just not producing them correctly anymore because it's been damaged. And by replenishing those with testosterone replacement therapy and hormone replacement therapy, they've alleviated a lot of the problems that people have, suicidal ideation, a lot of significant depression issues that they've been able to mitigate with hormone replacement. It's amazing though that we had, like there's that, it's even an option these days. It's incredible. Incredible. Well, we're in the right time with stem cells, with TRT, with hormone replacement, with the understanding of nutrition and with this brain machine that you're using, these treatments, we're in a good time for that. We're very, very fortunate. I'm thankful, I'm grateful for all of that. If we lived in the fifties, we'd be fucked. Just think about your knee surgery. My good friend, Steve Graham, he was on the US ski team in the 1980s and he's had some fucking, I don't wanna butcher this, I think he's had 70 surgeries over his whole life. He's had his shoulders replaced, he's got two artificial knees, like everything. But his legs, like the size of his legs, are just covered in scars from these old school surgeries where they would open you up like a fish and take a chunk of your hamstring and fucking drill it in place and it would last for a little while and blow out. You have to go in and do it again. Modern medicine's insane. It's insane. How precise and it's so predictable, they know it's gonna work. My surgeon for my knee was like, dude, you're tripping on this for no reason, Shane. Don't be a bitch. You know what I mean? I do this every single day, multiple times a day. Your knee's gonna be amazing. Like 50 years ago, like you said, it would have changed my life. I never would have surfed the same ever again. I could surf at a really high level still. Insane. We're very, very, very lucky to be living in the time we're living in, even though there's a lot of problems. When I lived in Boston in 19, I guess it was 1986, I was 19 and I was working at the Boston Athletic Club. It was the healthcare club in South Boston. And I was a trainer, like showing people how to use machines and stuff like that and putting people through workouts. And Bobby Orr, the famous hockey player was there. Bobby Orr's knees were so bad because he had so many surgeries that he couldn't straighten his legs out. His knees were always bent and he would walk with this kind of robotic shuffle. And we used to have to help him get on the VersaClimber machine. He literally couldn't get on it by himself. I mean, this is like one of the greatest hockey players of all time. Wow. And his knees were so destroyed and he had these knee braces he would wear, but he would play racquetball and he would go for a ball and just fall down. He just couldn't stand up. That's so crazy. Crazy. Imagine that guy had stem cells. Or like modern surgery. Modern surgery. If they had modern knee reconstruction like they have today, where they put a cadaver graft in there, they fix it and... Crazy. They're even able to do cadaver meniscus now, which is crazy. Like I'm missing meniscus on my left knee. I had a pretty significant tear of my left meniscus. So they took a, it was like called a bucket handle tear where I had the ACL reconstructed in 94, I think. And then in 2003, I believe, they scooped out the meniscus because it was just, they tried to sew it back together, but it kept tearing and then it would lock up. A bucket handle tear is just weird. You know what it is? Yeah. So it folds over and locks in place. My knee would lock and it's agonizing. So the only way that they fix that is they would just cut out the meniscus. So now I'm missing a chunk of meniscus. So the knee is kind of compromised. It's like a little wobbly and every now and then it swells, but at least it's functional. Like I can deal with a little discomfort if my knee is functional. You know, so the knee, the structure of the knee is very solid. It's very strong. I could do all kinds of things. I might hike through the mountains. I can kick the bag. But I have to deal with like a little bit of pain and discomfort. But now they're able to, they can do grafts where they'll take meniscus. But it's generally only effective for people that are like 40 and under. I think that's the age. I think as you get older, it becomes more and more of a problem with blood flow. I don't know if that's the same with everyone. I mean, I don't know if that's the same with me as a person who's sedentary. I don't know. I don't understand why I would have less blood flow as much as I exercise in comparison to a person who's like 20 years old and sedentary. With hormone replacement, with all the other things that I do, supplements, all the different things that I do, pep tops. The way you're lit, the way you live. Yeah, the way I live. Your diet. Yeah, the diet, regular sauna use, cold punches. So many things that I do that keep my body healthy. Your health picture probably looks pretty similar to somebody in their 30s or something when you look at, if you look at your overall health. Well, I know for a fact the way my body functions, it's very similar. Because the other day I did eight rounds on the bag and I was thinking, I don't even think of the fact that I'm 56. I just think of techniques. I'm just thinking of, bam, bam, bam! I'm not thinking of, oh my God, I'm 56, be careful. All I'm thinking of is just fucking 30 seconds left, push. Boom, boom, boom, bam, boom, boom, bam! I'm not thinking about it. It's amazing to not have to worry about your body. To be careful, be smart, train hard, exercise hard, recover hard, nutrition, supplements, all that jazz. But at the end of the day, I have a very functional body at 56. When I was a kid, I thought you were dead when you were 56. I didn't think you'd be jacked and strong and healthy and have all this energy and do two shows a night at the comedy club and do five podcasts a week and do all the other shit that I do in life and feel great. I feel fucking great. Guys in their 50s are functioning at a super high level now, which is awesome. It's amazing. And the coolest thing about it is, if you talk to Andrew Huberman, the stuff that he talks about, it's not a rich guy thing. It's really not. A lot of people assume it is, but waking up in the morning and getting sunlight right away, like training, food, running a little bit, sleeping good. That's all stuff that you can do, even if you don't have a lot of, you don't have to be super wealthy to even. And even the hormone replacement thing, if you're 50 years old or older or whatever, even that is super inexpensive, test out super inexpensive. I didn't know that when I was younger, I had no idea. Especially when you consider how much money people spend on booze. If you go to a bar and you drink for a night, like your fucking spending hundreds of dollars on drinks, that's your whole, that's months of hormone replacement. One night at the bar. And my testosterone is interesting because I wasn't really low. Denise is my doctor and I did my blood work and we looked at everything. And mine wasn't really low for my age. I didn't really look into it until it was right before 50 years old for those listening. And I don't really think you should until you get a lot older. But I was at a pretty good level but I wasn't like in an optimal level. And she's like, you should probably just try it to see how you feel. See how you feel. There's no downside to trying it. So it's like I do a cream, cream on the nuts before I go to sleep. Super simple, take a little clicker, click, click, click. And then I also supplement vitamin D, which is a hormone. And I supplement DHEA, which is a hormone. DHEA is, I believe it's from the thyroid. Is it thyroid? No, not thyroid. Can you look it up, Jamie? DHEA is from adrenal gland. And I think that's where like your testosterone and estrogen are created. And yeah, so I take those three. DHEA testosterone. I take those as well as peptides. I take peptides that stimulate your body's production of human growth hormone, IGF, and then BPC157, which is really good for recovering from soft tissue injuries. And that stuff is amazing. Yeah, I did that with my knee for six months. It's amazing. Yeah, it's great. There's so many different things that they know now that work. And like I said, we're super, super fortunate to be at this time. I've had doctors tell me that the BPC157, there's no scientific data to back it up and that it's hocus pocus. And every single high level athlete that I know, when they get injured, they get on BPC157. Yeah, those doctors are crack. Yeah. They're cracked because it's not true. There's plenty of studies. Like I've had conversations with doctors like, oh, well saline works just as effective. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. Like you're not an athlete. Look at you fat fuck. Well, there's a reason when someone in the NBA or in the UFC, they get injured. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was a way to help you recover. Issues with the UFC and USADA was, I talked to Jeff Nowitzki about this, who was the head of the UFC's anti-drug program. And what he was saying is like, USADA won't allow these athletes to take BPC157. He thinks that's wrong. He's like, you've got to give them the opportunity to recover from injuries. And it's not a drug, it's an amino acid stack, right? Exactly. Yeah. It's a peptide. Yeah. And it really works. And there are studies on it. I mean, when you talk to someone like Andrew Huberman, he's very high on that stuff. Yeah. And he's about as legit as you can get. Yeah, and he's, he cites only data and current data. He's up on the latest. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Thank God there's people that came out there. Thank God. Yeah. Amazing that we have that as a resource for free on YouTube. Incredible. Jack scientist. Yeah. That's what you want. You look at that dude, he looks like he should be fighting in the UFC. He's a fucker. And he's not selling anything. No. He's just like a fricking neuroscientist, scientist, health professional. And he's just strictly going on data. It's not his feelings. He's very careful about not being associated with anything in terms of like what can compromise. Good on him. Yeah, good on him. It's so important to have people like him out there. Peter Atia is amazing as well. Yeah, he's a good friend of mine. He's out here. Yeah. He's, I love his stuff. He's a bow hunter as well. Is he really? He's so cool. Oh, he loves it. Yeah, he just got back from Colorado. He got an alc. No way. Awesome. Yeah, I've hunted with him before. Very cool. We went to Utah. We went access deer hunting out here. Yeah, he's great. He's an awesome guy. Do you have high cholesterol because of your diet at all? No. Like quote unquote high cholesterol from like what people think is high cholesterol. No. In fact, I got my cholesterol tested at one point in time. The doctor thought that I was on anti-cholesterol or low cholesterol medication. That's surprising. Yeah. I just not, dietary cholesterol is not really what the issue is. I mean, I'm the wrong person to talk about this, but you know, obviously there's people that are, they have genetic issues. There's different body types. There's different predispositions to high cholesterol and coronary artery disease and a lot of different things. It really, I think it depends entirely on the individual, but I do not think that the food that's eaten by 95% of the people in the world is the problem, which is meat. The most nutrient dense food in the world. Well, the processed food is the problem. Processed food. Yeah. Processed food, overabundance of calorie rich, simple carbohydrates that people consume on a regular basis, fructose, corn syrup, all that shit. All that shit is terrible for you. And you know, and that's the problem with these epidemiology studies is that when they ask a person like how many days a week do you eat meat? And you say, well, look, if you show the people that are eating meat five days a week, there's a higher instances of cancer. Yeah, but let's break down what else they do. How many of those people are drinking every night? How many of those people are smoking cigarettes? How many of those people are eating high processed food with that meat? How many of you, what's the form that meat comes in? Does it come in a Burger King whopper, or is it from grass fed steak and broccoli? Big difference. Yeah, big fucking difference. Huge difference. Big fucking difference. There's just so many factors that lead, and all I know, I'm not telling you how to live, I'm not telling anybody else. All I know is how I live is the best way for me. I have never had better results than the way I eat, and I'm not the only one. There's a lot of people that eat the way I eat now, and it seems counterintuitive based on conventional medical advice, but I'm all in, and I feel fucking great. Yeah, well, you look great, and you live great. I have more energy than anyone I know. You're so damn busy, it's ridiculous. You do so much, dude, you're like the busiest guy ever. I'm busy, but I'm happy. Yeah, it's all good things. It's all good things. Yeah, it's all things I enjoy. And it's things you're choosing to do. Exactly. And they keep you young. That's the difference. Well, they keep you engaged, you know, but you gotta be careful, you know, you gotta be very smart and taking care of your meat vehicle. This is the thing that you use to travel through this life. Yeah, we only got one of them. Yeah, allegedly. You don't get a redo as far as I know. No, you might. I don't know, who knows what happens when you die. It's all just guesswork. But right now, you know you're alive and take care of yourself. You can, it's possible to do. You just have to be dedicated to it. And it has to be a thing that is just a normal part of your life, like brushing your teeth, taking a shower, normal stuff, so you gotta be a part of your life. Well, and we have guys like that guy, Mark Sisson. How old is he? He's in the sixties, right? He's in the seventies. Seventies. He looks fucking great. Bit, dude. Yeah. He's setting the bar high. Really high. I like that. Full of energy. Very healthy. Vibrant. Super sharp. Yeah. And again, that company, that primal kitchen, it's a fucking great company for healthy choices. Yeah. Yeah, it's, again, we're very fortunate that there's enough alternative sources of information where people do have the data and they do understand. Like, cut through all the, like, there's so many people that are still poisoned by these studies that the sugar industry funded in, like, whatever it was, the 1950s or the 1960s, where they bribed scientists to say that coronary artery disease is caused by saturated fat, which is just not true. What it was was sugar, and they knew that these people were over-consuming processed foods and sugar, and that was leading to the decay in their health, and they passed the buck onto saturated fat, and they got people eating that fucking margarine bullshit, and I can't believe it's not butter and all that crap, thinking that they were doing better, that they were being healthier than actual butter, which is actually good for you. Do you remember when we were kids, we were told butter and eggs were bad? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, remember the food pyramid? Yeah. The bottom of it was all bread. Yes. I watched a snippet of a TED Talk recently, and it was like a health, like, a longevity expert, and he was talking about, he was talking about health and longevity, and he said, if someone told me that they wanted to get diabetes as fast as possible, I would tell them to eat the food pyramid. Wow. Yeah. It's pretty wild. That's fucking crazy. Yeah. That's so crazy. We're just thinking about how many kids grew up with sugary cereals. Yeah. How many kids? I did. Yeah, me too. Yeah. You're getting kids addicted at an early age to sugar. It's changing their gut biome. It's getting them, like, craving this bullshit that's not even food. Sugar's powerful, man. It's so powerful. I'll eat a whole, like, that's like my biggest weakness. I'll eat a whole, like, I'll eat a small little breakfast, super healthy. I'll wait until, like, one o'clock. Like, I'll train, I'll go surf, do all this healthy shit, and I'll wait till one o'clock, and I'll make myself, like, four eggs, a big venison burger, and avocado, that's it. That's great. And I'll mac that whole thing. That's great. Plenty of food, right? Yeah. Probably, I don't know, a thousand calories or something. Yeah. The second I'm done, I get, like, a little bit of sugar cravings, and I'll, like, walking by my freezer, and I'll be like, Ice cream. I'll make a little acai bowl, little sweet treat. I'll make an acai bowl that's like a, I'll put, like, whey protein in the acai, and I'll blend that up, and I'll put it in a bowl with granola, berries, bananas, honey, and peanut butter on top. Sounds really good, but it's like pure sugar, and it's huge. And it's just like a sugar, I'm not hungry at all, just as a sugar craving, but it's powerful. Yeah, you can over-consume because of sugar. It's so easy. Very easily. So easy. Yeah, that's my biggest, that's my biggest vice. You have no vices? What are your vices? Cigars. Food. Now cigars, I guess, is the vice, but food. Food. Yeah, my biggest, look, I'm- Not right now. No. Well, I just cut it off, but if I let myself go, it's pasta, it's lasagna, linguine. The Italian vibes. Yeah, Italian vibes. I'd fucking, I'll go hard. But then there's also the difference between the pasta that we get over here and the pasta in Europe. Yeah. When they use that heirloom wheat, they use ancient grains. It's like they're not fucked with, the way that we fuck with them over here, where they increase the yield per acre. So they change what the grains are, and more complex glutins, your body, it's harder for your body to process, creates more inflammation. And it's covered in glyphosate? Oh yeah, that's another big one. That's another big one that no one wants to investigate. That scares the shit out of people. And there's so many apologists that are tied to the fucking pesticide industry and the herbicide industry. It's so scary. So many people that want to downplay the fact that- That's pretty heavy. Well, they did a study recently, and they found that 90 something percent of people have glyphosate in their blood. I think about that all the time. I'm fucking terrifying. It has such, such gnarly health, like negative health impact. I mean, it's crazy. Before I came here, I was watching YouTube, I got down a rabbit hole and it was like a little thing. It was like a documentary about, there's this massive upswing in the amount of people in their twenties and thirties that are taking Viagra. So men in their twenties are taking Viagra. Super, super common. And they're saying it's because their testosterone has dropped so much that it's really difficult for them to perform sexually. Well, there's also microplastics. Microplastics, which is- Right, glyphosate and microplastics are some of the biggest things. Yeah, there's a lot of things that are disrupting our endocrine system. Well, I talk about it all the time, but there's a doctor, Dr. Shana Swan, who wrote this book called Countdown. And she makes this connection between the introduction of petrochemical products and people using them like microwaving with plastic and plastic bottles and all these different things that leach plastic and chemicals into your, and the direct decrease of male testosterone, the shrinking of human beings' taints when they're babies, which is a direct indicator of whether someone's a male or a female, and males and mammals, the taint is 50 to 100% larger than females, but they're shrinking. And then also miscarriages in women, there's a much higher instance of miscarriages and infertility, and she thinks a lot of it is directly attributable to these plastics and these phthalates, these different chemicals that get into the bloodstream. All of our food comes in plastic. Yeah, it's fucking awful for us. What a weird world we live in. It is. Billions and billions of people, we have to feed all of them, so we use monocrop agriculture, so we've ruined the topsoil, so we're using industrial fertilizers and all that stuff pours off with rainfall and gets into the rivers. And there's so few farmers that have decided people like White Oaks Pastures, like Will Harris, I've had on this podcast, talked about this too many times, but I'll say it one more time, there's a video that shows the difference between his farm and the neighboring farm. His farm is an industrialized farm, or the farm next to him rather is an industrialized farm, and his farm is a regenerative farm. And it shows when rainfall hits and the water rushes through the topsoil, and his neighbor's farm, it's polluting the river, very clearly, a very clear line of property between his farm and the neighboring farm and what it's doing to the environment. Just polluting rivers with pesticides, herbicides, industrial fertilizer, all that runoff, and it just gets right into the rivers, killing fish. Has an impact over the last couple decades of us consuming it all? This is the river that runs near his property, so this is his neighbor's property, and look at his property. Wow. Look at the difference. It's fucking bonkers, man. When you see the clear difference between the two places, I mean, it's a direct line. Yeah, that stuff has an impact, man. Yeah. It really does. Well, and I don't know what the fuck we can do to mitigate it at this point. You can eat all elk. Yeah. All elk. But not everybody can. No. That's the thing. It's like, and I've heard that argument before, like, yeah, you're out there hunting for your food, but everybody can't hunt for their food. Right, but you can't ask everybody to, as an individual, you can make healthier choices, and healthier choices is buying food from regenerative farms. There's plenty of them in Texas. There's plenty of them that exist. There's poly-faced farms. There's white oaks pastures they deliver to you. There's plenty of regenerative agriculture. There's a company that I work with, Carnivore Snacks. It's my favorite. If I need to run out the door, and I'm looking for something healthy that I have to eat, like a car, they have these carnivore snacks. It's sliced ribeye. It's just ribeye with salt, and it's almost like a meat pastry. It's not like jerky. It's so delicious, and it's got fat on it, and I bring them to the UFC. Like, when I'm at the UFC, and I have to sit there for six hours, that's what I eat. I eat those, and it's from a regenerative farm. Like, you can find healthy choices. Maybe those healthy choices aren't available to eight billion people. Yes, that's true. But you as an individual can choose to use those healthy choices in your life, and if you can't afford them, this is your health. Do the best that you can to make sure that you get the healthiest food in your body. Do the best. No doubt, and it's never been easier to find them either. It's so much more widely available than it was even just a few years ago. People are so much more conscious of it now. When we grew up, people used to really believe that, oh, just eat a balanced diet. You don't need to do anything. Like, ugh, that's... What is a balanced diet? Like, what do you say? Yeah. And are you... Are you talking about the food pyramid? Do you get blood work done? Do you know, like, how your body's functioning? Do you know how it's optimized? Getting your blood work done is super important, way more so than I would have thought, like, 10 years ago. No, I think so too. My wife kept telling me, gotta get your blood work done. You gotta get your blood work done. Yeah. All the stuff you're eating, everything, how you're living, you wanna see that picture. I would have never thought I was deficient in a bunch of stuff. Crazy vitamin D. Yeah. I would have never imagined that a surfer is deficient in vitamin D. Yeah. I feel great. Yeah, well, that's good, dude. You look great. I'm really interested to hear your results from this insane stem cell regimen. Yeah, I'll keep you posted. I've been doing it, I don't do the selfie video thing pretty much ever on my social media stuff. Just super cringy and something I don't feel comfortable with but I've been doing it lately. So I've been trying to share my experience and kinda just tell my story about what I'm doing where I'm going, how I'm feeling and sharing my protocol just because I have a lot of personal friends around my age that are pretty beat up and some of them are considering surgery and everybody's got aches and pains and injuries. So I'm trying to share it for them and then I just had an incredible amount of feedback from people who wanna know more. I feel like from all the stuff that I'm doing and learning, I can help maybe demystify the stem cell thing. It seems pretty misunderstood. So I don't know everything there is to know about stem cells. I'm not pretending that I do. But what I'm finding out, I'm trying to share with people. So I'll try and keep you posted. That's awesome, dude, please do. And I really wanna hear what it does for your back because the disc thing is very interesting because I do know that there have been some examples of people that have had these injections and that have increased their disc space where the discs have actually grown. So people that are suffering from regenerative disc disease and were told that they might need fusions or they might need an artificial disc, they've managed to stop that. That's awesome. I have a friend named Mike Escamilla. He's kinda like me, but in a BMX category. So he was like an X Games athlete, like a BMX guy. Super high level athlete, energetic, really fit, beautiful young family, kids. And his back got worse and worse and to where he could barely get out of bed, couldn't work, couldn't live his normal life. I got so bad to where he was really, really depressed. And he went, that's part of the reason I got stem cells recently, but he went to the same place, CPI, the place I went to in Mexico and got the stem cell injections in his back. And 10 months later, full life changer, full on. He's thriving, he's living virtually pain-free. Like I talked to him on the phone four weeks ago because I wanted to kinda see what the process was like. And he's like, I'm not joking, dude. You're gonna trip out on your back. I didn't, my back was not nearly as bad as his was, but yeah, he was like, it changed my whole life. How often can you do it? Did you ask them like how many times you can go back? I don't think there's really a limit. I don't think you can do it really consistently, but I know people who go there for the IVs all the time. They go once a month for stem cell IVs. And then the fighters, all the UFC guys, like there was a couple of different fighters there when I was there. And they go after every fight. Wow. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. I mean, you have to be proactive about recovery when you're dealing with a fucking sport like that. And it's just such a shame that you have to go to another country to get that done. It really is, yeah. The cool thing is they have a cartilage-specific stem cell now. I was gonna tell you that about your meniscus because my understanding is your meniscus is a lot of cartilage, right? But they have a cartilage-specific stem cell now. Really? Yeah. What is that? I forget the name of it. It starts with an M, but a bunch of people, when I was there, were getting the cartilage stem cell based on their MRIs. So if they had cartilage issues and their doctor felt like they did, they would give you the option of adding cartilage stem cells to your injections. So that's something to think about. Well, keep me posted. I will. Let me know. I've got a bunch of back issues. I've been able to mitigate them, and they don't bother me nearly as much as they did when I was younger. Because I'm very proactive about strengthening my back. I do this whole core series where it's like, I strengthen all the muscles in my back and my neck and use the iron neck and all the stuff. Around the sides, too. Yeah, everything. I do everything. The core stuff helps a lot. It helps a lot, just to keep that whole area stable and strong and reinforce it. Anyway, brother. Good to see you. This was fun, man. Always fun. Always good to see you. Keep me posted. Really, I'm really excited to hear that. I might have to travel down there myself. Yeah. All right, thanks. Bye.