The Black Keys: Do Bands Need Record Labels Anymore?

We took a break off the road for four years and when we came back three years after a break to make a record, it was like we had gleaned a lot of perspective, you know? And our conversations when we first started making this record aside from like watching the news and talking about that and making each other laugh and shit, it was like this band is something that's really fucking special. You know what I mean? The fact that we're sitting in this room, you know, 18 years after starting this band and it fucking working out and we're fucking here, we need to make sure that this band is always something that's fun and not a burden and not stressful. It shouldn't be stressful. It should be fun. It's rock and roll. You know what I mean? And I think that we've been spending the last year figuring out how to make every decision so that way, you know? So like first this show, we were like do you want to do this TV show? This TV show? No, we want to do it. We both watched Joe Rogan. Listen to Joe Rogan. I happened to watch it. We want to do Joe's podcast. You know what I mean? That's what we want to do. That's what's important to us. We don't want to play with the talk. It's not important to us. It doesn't speak to us. These are the things we want to do. And taking that type of position with the band and also looking at the business side of it and be like this is fucking bullshit. This is ridiculous. You know? What this band should be giving us is the ability to help other bands, which is what we do all day long when we're not touring. I mean in the last five years, Dan's produced probably like 15 albums for other artists. I've done a handful myself. He has a label, puts out other people's music. There's a lot of fucking work. When we're not touring, we're still working on other music. And the craziest thing is this. We've sold millions of records. We've made between the two of us something like 60 plus albums. When I finish a record, I'm really proud of and I send it to Warner Brothers. The last time I did that, they didn't even fucking respond to the email. And when that shit happens to you, you know what you want to do? Tell them to fuck themselves. You know what I mean? And right now we're in a situation where our record contract's done. You know? And I saw what happened to my Uncle Ralph. Do you need a contract now? Fuck no. Fuck no. It doesn't seem like you do. But what we need is we need people to work with people who understand that the Black Keys is very important to us, but it's also a vehicle that we can leverage to help our other artists when we're producing shit. And it's so fucking infuriating to have been in this business for 20 years and honestly understand the business better than most fucking managers and be treated like dog shit by this person that you've made millions of dollars for. Do you know what I mean? Well, it doesn't make any sense that you need anything like that. All you guys need to do is have studio fees or if you have your own studio, produce the music and then once people know your shit is out. No, it's different because it's different. We don't need shit. But if you take a new artist from Nashville, say, and you make a record for them, okay? They need an agent. They need to go on tour. They need to do all the stuff that we did, but we were like malnourished freaks. We were losing money the whole time. We were able to lose money because our rent was $145 we started and we practiced in my basement and Dan lived in his parents' house. We could make like $200 a month and be in the red or in the black. Wow. No one else is like, that's not realistic. So if you really want to... Well, here's what's realistic. But if you want to help artists... Why isn't it realistic? I mean, it's realistic. Why is it more realistic to go get in $60,000 worth of debt and not be able to get out of the fucking job? Well, I'm just saying that most bands aren't two pieces. Most bands aren't like human cockroaches. When we first started, Dan was like, I need one ton soup every day. That's what I need. $3.50. We could get a one ton soup. I need a pack of cigarettes. Wow. But yeah, so you do need some financing. Listen, you have the answer right in front of you. You're a great talker. If you just developed a podcast where you played new music and then talk shit the way you do now, it would be gigantic. Maybe I... If you just go on the road, just do Pat and Dan... You could call it Pat and Dan on the road and you guys just do it from your tour bus or wherever. You just let him wind him up, let him talk shit about things and then play music, like music that you really enjoy. If someone like Spotify wouldn't jump on something like that, they'd be crazy. It's a great idea and you could use it as a platform to help artists avoid the system entirely. I'm thinking that might work, but also... It would work, man. If we just tweeted Mark Zuckerberg that we need $145 million. He'd probably do it. Probably do it. Seems like a good deal. If someone wanted to do something like that, it's a great idea because you can use it to launch... Like I've done with comics on this podcast. You find people that are funny, let everybody know. It's not hard. Get a group of people that are really interesting. Keep the conversations going. Keep more cool people coming in and then you can use that to help other cool people and let everybody know. You could do it through your social media. You could do it through a podcast. Of course, you guys are still going to do the same stuff you're already doing with producing people and helping them out. You definitely could have your own distribution network, but be ethical free, ethical quandaries free. You don't even have to think about it. You just give it to them for free. You just do it as a podcast to broadcast them, hey, check out this fucking band. I love this song. Play it. Bam. That would help a lot with exposure to new music. Yeah. But I guess what I'm saying is... They're going to need an agent to book shows. Well, yeah, but I'm saying what I do think is what I'm saying, the music industry, something that I think that we're trying to figure out now is basically how to actually really work again truly independently. You know what I mean? Where it is something that we can figure out a way to actually do the things we're passionate about, which is a lot of it is making records and helping... Even to make a record and press it. It's at least $10,000. You know what I mean? I guess what I was trying to say was you'd expect that someone would look at your work and respect it enough to step in and help out because it's not like you're asking for millions of dollars a year to finance some shit. You're asking for a couple hundred grand. But that's the problem with the music industry is that certain labels are willing to give a SoundCloud rapper $15 million. But then they look at a band and they can't quantify their metrics like maybe the Black Keys or whoever and they don't give a shit. Well, help me out with this because I don't understand it. What do they provide? What does a record company provide? At this point to us, physical distribution, which is something that we... Physical distribution of LP vinyl. That's crazy though. How much is that? Yeah, but I mean... Is there a lot of people buying those? No, no, no, no. I mean for us really it isn't tons. There's some marketing, there's some stuff like that. But honestly, I mean we get more from like a live nation probably. You know what I mean? So they... What does a record company do then? Like if you're a young artist, they get you... Dude, they scare you. They scare you. They scare you into handing over the shit that they need. And then they sign you to a long-term contract. Is that how it works? And then they pray you have a hit. They pray you have a hit and if you do and you want to leave, then you're fucked. And then if you don't... If they don't think so and they think that you want to leave and you got two records left, they shove that record until you go to the middle. Yeah, that's what they do. It just doesn't seem... It's a legacy business it seems. Check this out. We had this dude who was president of a label at one point. It got back to me that he was taking credit for our success. He wasn't even around when we broke. You know what I mean? And the credit he was taking was the most genius fucking credit. This is how smart these fucking people are. He said, yeah man, you know, I really take a lot of pride in that band and really help them a lot by just staying out of the way. He didn't even write a check for tour support or no promotion. He's taking credit because he was smart enough not to fuck it up. I mean, it's like I take personal credit like at Bojangles Chicken for them being successful or the new Popeyes Chicken Sandwich. I take a lot of credit though in that chicken sandwich, man, because I didn't buy one. I didn't fuck it up. I didn't like put the wrong post up. But that's a way better attitude, at least the working attitude than the guy from Pepperdine who wants to fuck with the high hat. Wouldn't you prefer that guy who just gets the fuck out of the way? I would say I'll take that guy all day long. If those are the two options then yeah. Absolutely all day. I mean, is he taking credit for it or is he just, he's kind of bragging that he works with you? He can't be taking credit for it. I think a little bit of credit, a little bit of credit. A little annoying to you. Dude, there's a lot of credit that gets taken for a lot of shit. It seems like a fucking frustrating and infuriating business that I'm glad I don't have to participate in. As comics, there's no business. We're like in the fucking top .001% of this shit and still fucking annoying every single fucking day. It's just like, it's the trick to the music industry is to, it's because if you really love music like the way that Dan and I do, where it is still the thing that we're most passionate about. I mean, I love music. I only think about music, listen to it all day. But yet you have to find that fine line where like you don't, when like you make a record you're really proud of and no one fucking hears it and no one that works with you even responds to an email about it, you have to find that space where you don't want to kill everybody. You know what I mean? And you still want to go make another record. And do you need to be connected to someone like this though? Does this, is this a valuable thing in your world? What? To have this record company. No, no, no. Not, right? So you can let all this go, right? And don't do it anymore. No, the trick is to find out how, still learning, that's the industry changes is to learn how to pivot and make it, have it make sense. So the real problem is young talent that's just getting started to get signed when they don't really know their worth yet and they don't know how. The problem is that no one is investing in fucking real bands. They're investing in like a songwriter, they're investing in an artist that was a puppet that like they can go and like say this person's going to listen to this, do this shit, it's like a pop machine. Do you think that you could do it ethically? That you could do it your way? Look, I think- Do you have the time for something like that? If I was to run a record label, the main difference would be that I would look at it as, let's try to fucking break even, let's realize that some of the most important records here have never sold a million copies. Like the Ramones never sold a million copies of any of their records. They're maybe the most influential punk band. So let's redefine what success is. Success is getting behind art that we really are proud of and not getting trampled and then getting the support that it needs. This all seems doable. Yeah, but then- What you're describing with you seems doable. But then think about this. This is the problem. This is the crux is then you think about the Ramones and you realize this is a band that toured in a van for 20 fucking years. Do you want to subject a band to that? No, you want to be able to elevate that band to the point where they're actually doing that comfortably. That's the hard part. Can you though? Would they be the same band? Not always, right? I think that you could, yes. It's possible, depending upon the individual. Dude, that's why Metallica has these therapists band they're trying to figure out. Well don't you think that part of what you guys are is your background when you were paying 125 bucks a month for rent and you were living with your parents. This is part of why you guys were so good because you fucking really wanted it. You needed it. You had to get to a better place. We had no other option. Yes, but I think there's something to that that flavors the music. I think that's what we do when we try to work with people. We see that same quality in other people. So people have already been down that road. Artists that I'm working with now, people like Yola and people like Dee White and- Dude, this is- All these people, they're just ornery and they want it. This is begging for an organization. Your passion for this is so important. We're already sort of doing it. Dude, you guys should have a radio station or a podcast that just talks about these new albums and what's going on and what you're doing. I'm sure people would fucking love it and just play music. Play the music that you guys are producing. Play music that you enjoy that you find out about. I mean, it seems like there's a real easy fix for this angst. I don't think there is because it's been going on for 40 years. But for you, there's a fix. At least there's a better path for some people. The angst is important because it is- It's valid. We're also, by the way, not that angsty. But when I do talk about the business, I get a little angsty. But I'm a pretty chill individual, to be honest, most of the time. The comedy business is so much easier. We get to use that in our music. Yeah, I'm sure. The drive is the thing. I found this photograph that I just hung up in my road case of Dan and I playing one of our first shows. I'm like, oh, this is important. I should make sure I have this hung up. Because this reminds me of all the fucking days that we spent being fucking miserable in a van. Because we love music so much, we go play a show for fucking nobody and maybe make enough money to get a Motel 6 room, share a bed, get up the next day and go to Waffle House. I keep fucking doing it for years and years and years and years. But it does take that type of motivation. And it's frustrating when you do that and then you get to a point where it is the point that we're at and you feel like you've gotten really good at what you do and you help another artist and you realize that after all that work, it's like the myth of Sisyphus, it's like, oh, after all that work, it doesn't move the fucking clock at all. Still, these same motherfuckers aren't fucking helping.