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Josh Dubin is the Executive Director of the Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice, a criminal justice reform advocate, and civil rights attorney.https://cardozo.yu.edu/directory/josh-dubin
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Well this is what's going on right now where a bunch of fighters are upset because Logan Paul and Floyd Mayweather just fought and Logan Paul made 20 million bucks and Floyd Mayweather made 100 million bucks and they're looking at this like hey what about me? How come I'm not making that kind of money? I think what they have to understand is whether you like it or not even if you're an elite, the elite of the elite, Kamaru Usman or pick any style bender, some of the best fighters in the UFC, even the elite of the elite. The money comes from people wanting to buy your pay per view. It's real simple. It shouldn't maybe, maybe in a perfect world it's the most skillful fighter gets the most amount of money but that's not how it works here. In the world of combat sports, professional prize fighting, it's all about how many eyes are going to watch you and that fucking Logan Paul kid has a lot of eyes on him. He's had a YouTube channel since he was 14 years old. He's been on Disney shows. He's this controversial, larger than life internet celebrity and people are willing to pay a lot of money to see if he can box with literally one of the greatest fighters that's ever lived in Floyd Mayweather. Hey look, I'm not mad at it. I'm not mad at it either. Yeah and you know what? The best fighters, some of the best fighters to ever fight, Lennox Lewis, Andre Ward, these guys that I had the honor of representing, you never hear out of these elites that they're pissed like good for them because I think that they get on a fundamental level that as human beings we unfortunately were hardwired to watch the train wreck. We want to see Carnage. We want to see a freak show too. And we want, it is a freak show. That was a freak show. I mean it's a circus. I was looking forward to it. I really was. I was so excited before the bell rang for the first round. It's like going to the circus almost. It's like a dude wrestled a bear. I mean can he wrestle a bear? You know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of when Rocky fought Hulk Hogan in one of the Rocky movies. Well the difference though is that Floyd, first of all, you got to give credit to Floyd Mayweather for doing that because it's so crazy to fight a guy 35 pounds heavier than you. That's so big. He looked like he was fighting a giant. And to watch him, look, people have a lot of opinions about Floyd Mayweather, what he does, how he spends his money. Listen, the guy's brilliant in a lot of ways. He's tapped into something that human beings want and want to see. But I was watching him in the fight. The guy outweighs him by 40 pounds and he's walking to him. Walking right to him with his hands up. Hands up. Yeah. Crazy. He is a badass. And listen, the guy Logan Paul, he's got balls to get in there and to do that. How could you ever be mad at that? I mean you could take a step back and be like, oh God, what does society come to? Right. I mean it's come to watching The Freak Show. Yeah. It's come to watching The Freak Show. And maybe not just that because there were some professional fights on the undercar but no one's talking about those. You know, it's just the big fight was The Freak Show fight. And you want to know what? I think that this is going to continue until somebody shuts these kids up. And people want to see now they want, I think it's the same sort of self-fulfilling prophecy that Mayweather sort of tapped into. It's like I realized the more I run my mouth, the more I make people have an emotion towards me. Yeah. Love or hate, mostly hate, right? Mostly they're going to be pissed at me. Now they want to tune in to see me lose. And that's just as valuable, if not more valuable than wanting to tune in. So I think that on a ... He gets human behavior and human thinking more than he gets credit for. I don't ... I'm not here to weigh in on his life or his lifestyle because who am I? I'm just another human being. But I think that same thing is happening with these two. People want to see them lose now and they realize how there's currency in that, right? Yeah. There's a lot of currency in that. It's super valuable. People want to see them get fucked up. And we were at the UFC recently and Jake Paul was in the audience and the whole audience was chanting, fuck Jake Paul, fuck Jake Paul. And he was laughing and holding his camera up and filming it and shit. And DC got in his face, which I love to see. That was so cool. But it was like then the story became Cormier confronts Paul and Antlok, there's part of me that is like, you spend your life racking your fucking brains. How do I make it in this world? How am I going to support my family? What am I going to do to make a difference? So there's a part of it that I get where people are like, and these two fucking kids, what did they do? How did they get famous? I don't know. They pissed people off. Yeah, but they got famous first. This is what's interesting. They got famous first and then it turns out they can fight, especially Jake. That kid can knock people the fuck out. He knows how to punch. Can he knock fighters out though? Well, we don't know. I mean, we saw Askren, but Askren first of all coming off of a hip replacement surgery was a brilliant move. You get a guy who's arguably the worst striker in elite MMA, which is Ben Askren. And that's no disrespect to Ben Askren. He'd probably admit to that. Phenomenal wrestler, like elite wrestler. Great guy, not a good striker. You make him box. It's like the worst thing that he does. And then Jake Paul starches him with one punch. But you looked at his body, he looked severely out of shape. He looked like he hadn't trained for a long time and then kind of got in good enough shape so he could compete. The guy knows how to fight and knows how to win, but that's not his sport. It's not his sport at all. He just took a paycheck. I'd like to see this guy, Jake Paul, fight someone who's going to fight Tyrone Woodley. Well, after he fights, can Tyrone Woodley fight? Can he box? Well, I know he can punch. He punches really hard. But he doesn't punch like a boxer. He throws big bombs and sets up takedowns. He can crack though. With one shot, he could fuck anybody up. But the thing is, the way he throws shots, he'll throw like a bomb and then set up a takedown or set up a clinch. He's not a guy who's going out there with peekaboo style, throwing jabs and hooks to the body. That's not his style. He's never been a guy who boxed. He's been a guy who uses boxing in MMA, but he uses everything. Does Jake Paul beat him, you think? Oh, we won't know until they get in there. The thing about it is he'll be the most dangerous guy that Jake's fought for. Sure. Not even close. Not even close. No one more dangerous than Tyrone Woodley. All right. Well, if he beats an MMA fighter, because there is- Tyrone's not just an MMA fighter. Tyrone is a UFC world champion and one of the best welterweights of all time. If you looked at all the UFC welterweights of all time, he's top three. He's fucking phenomenal. But there is something fundamentally different about MMA fighters fighting a boxer. Yeah, because there's other stuff that you incorporate into your movement. You're worried about leg kicks. You're worried about takedown defense. You're worried about all these different things. You have all these different variables on your plate. Now you remove all those variables. You give Tyrone a pair of shoes and you just let him punch. He punches really fucking hard. When he doesn't have to worry about wrestling, doesn't have to worry about getting his tired, and he can pick his shots, he'll be the most dangerous guy that Jake Paul's ever fought for sure. But it doesn't necessarily mean that he wins. I think Jake Paul can fucking box. If you look at that Nate Robinson fight, I know Nate Robinson didn't know what he was doing, but the way he landed those punches, he cracked him and knocked him out moving backwards. He can move backwards and then plant. So he doesn't have big windup movements. His brother has more windup shots. His brother was throwing more windmilling type arm punches. Jake throws things straight and hard. They're dangerous, much more dangerous. Here's why I have more respect for the older brother for what he just did. Yes, he outweighed him by 40 pounds, but he got in there with perhaps the best fighter to ever get in a ring. I'd love to see how Jake Paul fares against someone similar in size that is a boxer. Yeah. Well, you know what, man, he's only got a couple of fights. Here's how you have to look at him. Look at him like any other guy who only has a couple of fights. If you saw a guy who's coming up and he didn't have an amateur career and he's only had a couple of fights, he'd go, man, he's got some promise. Yeah, no, but these guys aren't in it for the ... Are they in it for the long haul to become boxers? Jake says he is. They're in it to become spectacles. But imagine if this guy gets all the way up to a world title fight. Imagine if he actually works his way through some professional boxers. That would be remarkable, wouldn't it? It wouldn't just be remarkable. The fucking money he'll be able to earn. Well, how about fighting a recently retired ... You know who'd fuck him up right now? Who'd fuck him up right now? Andre Ward. Are you saying Andre Ward? Andre Ward. Andre Ward. Andre Ward. Andre Ward. Andre can't fight professionally anymore because he's had some physical problems. But Andre's still in shape. He's recently retired. Maybe he'll get mad. Are you trying to set something up? Look at you, you're looking away. You're like the worst poker player ever. He's like, well, maybe. Well, I just know, I know. Look, that's my brother. I know that he's like ... Has he thought about it? He's thought about it. He's thought about it. He's thought about it and we've talked about it recently. Catch new episodes of The Joe Rogan Experience for free only on Spotify. Watch back catalog JRE videos on Spotify, including clips. Easily, seamlessly switch between video and audio experience. On Spotify, you can listen to the JRE in the background while using other apps and can download episodes to save on data cost all for free. Spotify is absolutely free. You don't have to have a premium account to watch new JRE episodes. You just need to search for the JRE on your Spotify app. Go to Spotify now to get this full episode of The Joe Rogan Experience.