Joe Rogan | Dave Foley's UFO Obsession

But now I'm more the thing I've become obsessed with lately is There's a skepticism about UFOs. Yeah, that's why I wanted to talk to you about this because you told me that you've become obsessed with UFOs Yeah. Oh, yeah completely and it's like a lever Yeah, totally. Really? Yeah, totally believe the UFO phenomena is real I don't know what it is, but it's totally it has to be real something's happened Why is that because there's just way too much evidence that it is real what evidence? well radar evidence that the the f-16 locked on a UFO that footage and also just Like I know the friend of ours I don't know if she wanted to say it but her father was an air traffic controller Mm-hmm, and he told her they said yeah every air traffic controller has seen something Yeah, and I had another friend whose father was in a commercial pilot and she said yeah My dad said every single pilot has seen something and they've all been told not to say anything about it We have a couple of friends that say they were Abducted yeah. Yeah, the abducted one is a little easier to wrap your head around because When you're sleeping your brain is producing all sorts of endogenous psychedelic chemicals Yeah, almost all of these experiences happen when you're sleeping almost all these experience when these people are abducted They're taken from their beds, which is when they're dreaming Yeah I mean it's just like there's some real clear easy steps to follow I want to follow Occam's razor and not you're not get crazy with it not so so but it doesn't knock out like Barney and Betty Hill and all the people that are abducted will fully conscious and that and that remember it without hypnotherapy Like I'm not sure about the abduction phenomenon, but I don't know Barney and Betty Hill I know the story, but I don't know them. Yeah, so I would have to know them because there's a lot of people that I've Like I did a show for sci-fi called Joe Rogan questions everything. Yeah, I watch that show that cured me Yeah, so cured me of a lot of my nonsense with with conspiracies. Well, we used to talk about yes Yeah, that's that's all the time. Yeah. Yeah, but I I needed to actually study it. So for six months that's basically all I did I interviewed people and I like Bigfoot believers UFO believers all and the one thing that they have in common is They all seem to be kind of lost and dependent upon this thing being real Yeah, right instead of being objective There's only one lady that I interviewed that saw Bigfoot that really seemed to be telling the truth But I think she saw a bear. Yeah bears walk on two feet all the time. They do it all the time Yeah, video footage you could find it all the time and she was in the Pacific Northwest, which is incredibly dense woods You see something you glimpse it look I was hunting once in in in Canada and Alberta and I thought I saw a wolf For like two seconds. It was a squirrel. Okay, understand this No squirrel, yeah, no, I just saw fur right I saw fur and I was because it's really dance woods Because I was looking for fucking wolves because I was like because I know we did see one wolf Across the roads either wolf or coyote was hard to tell because it was at dusk. It was very dark out but When you're looking for something you think everything is that thing you're looking for? Yeah, so like a Second I thought that fucking squirrel was a wolf. That's funny. Yeah. Well expectation and perception are very linked. Yes Yes, well, this also that they found that That 50% of everything you see is a product of memory Yes That when you observe something they've done fmri's and that most of the activity in the brain is in the memory centers not in the visual centers Interesting only about 50% of the activities in the visual centers of the you know, the UFO crazy Yeah, nothing is very I when I was a kid I went and saw Carl Sagan speak at U of T at the University of Toronto and I was like, you know 14 but he did an equation on the board of the possibility of alien life Other than us in the universe and it came to the smallest I mean he spent the whole time writing on this chalkboard. It was fascinating. Mm-hmm He actually came up with a number at the end and it was such a small He says there is there is something out there But they are so far away That yeah, they'll that unless they can go faster than the speed of light, which he said was impossible At the time. Yeah, the 70s. Yeah There's no way we've seen them that's what he said so if some other Beings have conquered the speed of light thing then maybe we could see them. Yeah, but that's a thing with Is that problem with this skepticism in general is like that it you know Like like the skeptic skeptics of the 19th century the ones who said germs don't exist Right because we can't see them and and people who said germs did exist were ridiculed and laughed out of the trade Mm-hmm, right and I I agree with you completely just because you can't see it or it isn't happening It doesn't mean it can't happen and even since Sagan's day There had been no exoplanets discovered then right we now know that there are literally trillions and trillions of sure planet Earth like planets Yeah, well they did they just speculators to the existence of them outside of our solar system before the the real problem Is that if some there's a leap and a leap a technological leap that opens the doors to? Massive innovation. Yeah that once this happens once this happens in this and then all this stuff sort of Exponentially expands in terms of technological possibilities All you would need is a few hundred years and you have an unrecognizable Set of technology. Yeah, sure, you know, I mean we were talking about CERN I mean, you know antimatter idea that they're still trying to figure out. Yeah that's an Insane sorts of energy that we have never even experienced. Yeah, you know with them with Grain of sand. Yeah, and run a city and it's that big. Yeah, yeah, and there's also a theory There's a recent one that space time itself doesn't exist So the the speed of light barrier becomes moot because that there's I guess it's the holographic quantum hologram They're quantum holographic theory of the universe. Yeah, that's actually how that's book. I can't remember holographic universe Yeah, I think so and but the idea that the universe is basically just a geometry that that when you look at it from a certain Angle seems three-dimensional right and it folds on folds into itself. So you could and it's travel through that's the wormhole thing Well, it's not even that is the idea that that that space time is an illusion is And that that it doesn't really exist and that's why you know, like Entanglement is possible, you know the idea that you know spooky action at a distance. Yes that Oh, yeah But the reason that you know, you know These you know atoms an opposite ends of the universe can be affect each other instantaneously at the same It's because they're not really at an opposite ends of the universe. They're really right next to each other It just seems like they're at opposite ends of the universe because our ability perceive is basically based on What we have to do to stay alive on this planet. So our meager little chimp brains Yeah Trying to quantify all these things that are around us all the time So we put them into this sort of three-dimensional box of movement and distance and and then the entire the entire universe could be a Compact thing. Yeah that projects itself like a hologram onto a screen I love these kind of conversations because I'm clearly too stupid to really understand what I don't understand I don't listen anything like this and I don't understand you too. So how stupid does that make me? Well, we don't understand each other This is perfect. We're all the same. Yeah, like I think it'd be interesting to do it like a documentary something about From about ufology because one thing is the assumption that their extraterrestrial is an assumption. Mm-hmm But the thing it intrigues me is the power of ridicule to silence Yeah, even the most intelligent people in our community from examining something like the ridicule kept Doctors from accepting germs sure because they didn't want to they didn't want to be ridiculed by their peers Mm-hmm, and even now you've got people that will like Michael Shermer will cling to the most absurd Explanations for phenomena like the f-16 radar footage What did he what was Michael Sherman? I can't remember it, but it was it was pretty it really went to great lengths that entailed having to basically Diminish any respect you had for any of the people who reported on the events. Mmm It had to go and it had to go into character assassination in order to to eliminate it Yeah, that's the best way to kill an idea He's a professional skeptic and I like Michael a lot and he's been on the podcast many times yeah, I actually had him debate Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock about these ancient civilizations and it wasn't very good for him Like no, there's some funky moments because skeptics are believers. Well, the problem is they're in Believe in the problem is being a skeptic itself. It's a stupid way to look at the world It's a chat. You're actually sure about something. I mean you should be objective right? No be skeptical, right? Being skeptical is like I don't know but I know for sure that that's not true Yeah but it serves a massive purpose for people that Really don't understand things and he can explain it to you and with actual science as long as the actual science is being used And it's not character assassination. It's not mockery. It's not it's not there's certain people that are just Debunkers they can call themselves skeptics, but they're not looking at thing like oh, maybe that is effective. Maybe that is healthy Maybe that is interesting. No, they don't look at it that way. They're looking at it They're trying to pick it apart and that's fine if you can pick it apart But if you cannot you have to be objective about the fact that oh, well, this is a very interesting phenomenon And this is what we know about science is that and this is what we know about this thing and yeah right now We have we have a weird conundrum did chariots of the gods. Yeah, and did he Eric von Daniken was he? Was he a believer hundred percent? He's all it is still in all in I asked him the first thing I asked him I said, what is my boss? Yeah, that's really have to go people. Yeah The first thing I asked him was what is the most compelling piece of evidence? This is you know, and he pointed to this Mayan stone plaque that's in Palenque. I don't have you ever ever seen it. It's His book. Yeah, it's a god one of their One of their former kings that is lying on his back and he looks like he's moving some See Jamie see if you could find that thing. It's just really cool Carving that they found that looks like there's a guy who is in a seat and it looks like there's fire Behind his back and you could say like you could say that he's manipulating Controls on a ship and he's you know shooting a rocket into the heaven. I would like to see what this The mainstream version of that is because also it could just be art You know, I mean imagination. Yeah, it could be that they they knew about certain things being propelled by fire. There it is Yeah, that's it. So if you see this, I mean, that's a big-ass stretch to say that guy's in a spaceship I don't know what the fuck that is. He's sitting down. It's like an altar kind of he could yeah But it doesn't look like he's looking through an eyepiece, right? That's true But what does that mean? Is it a telescope? Maybe he's just got a telescope. Maybe it's just an astronomer Yeah, it is possible. I don't think they had telescopes. I don't think a telescope was even invented till now Do they even have glass at that point? Oh Well, I don't know if the Mayans did But but that was this number one piece of evidence was like that's kind of silly I mean when we were kids in the 70s that you know Bigfoot, you know and Cherry to the gods and everything was so new. Hey, look at this image Look at the bottom of it even the part where the flames supposed to be coming out from below him Yeah, it's the where's the flame? I guess the flame is the shit at the very very bottom But I mean, I'm not even sure I buy that if you were gonna draw fire You do a really shitty job if that's your fire. That doesn't really look like fire to me No, like could be any ornate seat, right something right if that's fire like what is all the stuff around them? What's all that stuff? Is that that look kind of mechanical though, right? Looks like there's bolts does did they have a fire? Maybe they drew the fire god. It looks like a monkey kind of face with titties monkeys got some titties Oh now I get it right and then the monkeys is that his teeth. It's the first tutors Like arms actually right it does it could be arms. Well, that's the point is it's so open to interpretation There's so much that you could see if you're looking to see but what I do see is this guy who's He's reclining in a chilling and it looks like he's looking through something. What's that thing hanging across? Him you see that thing across his arm. Yeah, what the fuck that is But here's the thing. I don't think anybody knows what the fuck that is But so for him to say that this was the number one most compelling Evidence, I mean where people getting high at this point. Oh, yeah, so I mean that could be just some guy got high in LSD are some yeah, they were they were taking Different kinds of plants that had like searchic acid in them. So what is this obsessing? What what is your your more recent obsessing about UFOs? What's the origin of this? It's well part of it is just the fact that that The evidence just the evidence itself says you have to take this seriously and yet no one does or very very few people do and even like Again that f-16 footage that even Neil deGrasse Tyson who is a great skeptic said On one of the late night actually said well if you really want to look at the possibility of some Nonhuman intelligence that f-16 stuff is pretty compelling. What is the f-16 stuff? What is the stuff that to the Stars Academy put out? It was this Tom D'Lanque. Yeah, he's crazy On the podcast is he? Oh, yeah, very nice guy. What do you see in the he's a very nice guy and a brilliant musician Yeah, and he's a loon. Yeah Fucking full-on believer. I mean he left blink 182 to go do this to the Stars Academy shit He's the biggest goddamn rock band on the planet. Okay. Here's something interesting about this and This was pointed out like by Okay a film video film by fighter jet shows an unknown object near San Diego video from 2004 was released by the US Department of Defense A While the way it moves there's something about the way it moves is really weird, huh? It could be a jet though. Just move that one one of the pilots told the immediate the object was not from this world Hmm. Yeah, and here's the things like the skeptics in order to dismiss it They have to go well front They have to make arguments like that jet fighters are not better observers than anyone else pull up Mick Ward's Take on that Mick Ward the guy who he runs deep What is it? Meta bunk meta bunk him runs a debunking site and he's another one of those guys that is all in with the The conventional explanation. Yeah goes way out of his way to not look at anything that could be which is the Bockers razor. Yes. Yes comes razor says You know that if you have to go to great lengths to dismiss something right that's not following Occam's razor, right? Occam's razor says if the jet pilot says he saw this he saw it I think he had an interesting take on it though And one of the things was there's a time during the video where the pilot shifted from 1x to 2x Which makes the image move more because you're you have magnification like if you ever use magnifying glasses Binos like if you use 15 x by nose, it's very difficult to hold on a subject Yeah, but six six you can kind of look at things in the distance Yeah, but that's if you don't have about About three million dollars worth of stabilization equipment on your jet you walked on to this object, right? Which is why that stays in lock he had an explanation though. That was kind of interesting and when it breaks free of the lock How does it take off unbelievable? but I just take off or something like it just at one point just the object just breaks free the lock and That's almost impossible. Hmm. I have a question possible for anything that man is built to do with the quality of cameras today Why is this footage so shitty? That is infrared footage. Yeah infrared. Yeah, I mean do you need this when you're shooting at things in the sky? You can't rely on a visualization. Well, you're looking at heat. Yeah, I can't he's against visually. It's so far It's so far. It would be escaping the rabbit hole how to debunk conspiracy theories using fact logic and so what is he saying? What is he saying the program? Make that a little larger for my stupid eyes Said for all you make sure you are talking about the right video. There's two that are confused here We're talking about the gimbal video, which is not from the Nimitz incident. It's discussed here. So scroll down a little bit The gimbal video is an okay. Yeah, that's the one we're looking at it's an unknown date and location from an up from unknown pilots Nope, the tick-tock one some Yeah, that's 2004. Okay, that's David Fervor the media's discussed these videos Tom belongs to the stars the link contains the frames. What's he saying? Keep going. Keep going. Keep going The black shaper on the object some kind of infrared flare glare We know the shape of a very bright infrared source Like the engine of a plane can be much bigger than the object itself is explained here. Okay, so there's like a flare Mm-hmm that doesn't explain the movie Explain the movement it doesn't explain again Occam's razor. Yeah is okay. So this guy does not say it this guy's saying it's look at it It looks nothing like it Mm-hmm. Well, even if it is a jet a jet's not capable of breaking free from the lock, right? Yeah, lock on and if you look at that you can see the jet his own example debunks his debunking, right? No, not be moving. Yeah, the video need not be moving and it's also the assumption that that This guy doing probably a few hours research has come up with something that is more credible Than a trained fighter pilot who is there and visually seeing it. What do you think it is tracking it if you had a guess? I don't know. Let's get crazy. Oh, I would I think it is it is it is an intelligent Craft is the craft being piloted intelligently. Why aren't they talking to us? Um, was it we're fucking apes Why would you yeah, I just talked to my assholes when you look at it? What do you yeah, I forgot you're right leaving fucking plastic straws everywhere. Oh, we cured it No more plastic straws when you're when you're looking at an ant colony, you didn't go listen to me ants Yes, you just looked at them, you know, there was no, you know, and they say why don't they go to the White House? I'm so why would do you when you look at an ant colony go? I must speak to the Queen right, you know Yes, no, I've always said he's looking ants. Yeah, that's what the most ridiculous thing about like The old movies like the old movies it would land on the White House lawn, right? Yeah There stood still that's it. Yeah Baratu Nick. Yeah, whatever that thing was. Yeah, clock to Barata Nick, too. Yeah, that's the Day the Earth's just it was like 1940 or some 50 50 50 Fucking great great movie. I watched it really recently because it's a terrible. I love the variables A little bit right stories are great. He was a Christ. Yeah. Well, his name is John Carpenter. Oh See that's right Christ was a carpenter They don't they shoot that object out of his hand the first second he pulls it out Remember he has a thing that's your cancer. They shoot him. They shoot him and then just shoot it out of his hand immediately And then at the end of the movie he is he is killed and resurrected. That's right. Yeah The robot yeah, yeah the robot. Yeah Love that robot robot. Yeah, very tall. Yeah, and like he looks like you would want a robot to look in 1950 Yes, yeah, I'm at all and shit smooth. Yeah chrome Yeah, those those were the days we thought that they would communicate like wasn't there a whole rash of them that were seen over Washington DC. Yeah, there was a period. Yes, it was some dozens. Yeah dozens of UFOs tracked and Admitted by the government that they were tracking them and watching them But they essentially then the end their explanation was nothing nothing particularly Important, you know, we have a mutual friend who claims I won't say her name but she can't and I feel bags I wrote her off as a lunatic when I first heard Yeah, well, she was claimed to be Abducted. Yeah, and then I I was doing a show with her years ago and she's telling us the story We're all like, huh, that's pretty funny. And she says and then they took a scoop out of my back And I'm like a scoop they took a scoop out of your back and she showed on her back shoulder There was a hexagonal diamond shaped scoop out of her back A divot that there's hexagon. Yeah, that was clearly clearly and no scar tissue Maybe she's a crazy bitch. No scar tissue. I know how to make this Yeah, give myself a little punch, but I have a whole punch back there. I worked at a bookstore at the time Years ago and I went into the alien section of the world's biggest bookstore in Toronto And of course I went to the alien section and just looked all this crap up immediately and there are other people Yeah with the scoop There's a lot of other people with you know abduction stories and some of them have like little pieces of something in their body I remember you talking to me about this many many years ago. I was like, oh Dave's interested It was like implants you were talking about people that have alien implants in their body Yeah, and that's the things I to me it's just I guess the thing that I'm kind of obsessed with now is just the because we're comedians. Yes and the power of ridicule to Silence debate is unbelievably potent. Sure and we're part of that We're part of the machinery that was used very very consciously by the government to silence Yeah any inquiry, you know, it was like, you know feeding it, you know feeding the story the right way to late night talk show hosts Mm-hmm made it so that nobody would talk about it So do you think that the government consciously fed those ideas like Johnny Carson and those folks? Yeah I think there's documentation of a pro, you know of that they you know to to make The UFO phenomena ridiculous. Do you think they did that to avoid mass hysteria? Like if you're you're the government and you know, there's nothing out there, but you see these people freaking out you go Okay, look we've looked we've used all of our military might all of our scientific power and we don't see shit I'm not buying this but these people are freaking out This has the real potential to get out of hand and go sideways on us. Let's just start making fun of this Yeah, I don't know. I think it's more likely that there's something there that they feel powerless to control do you think Kennedy was taken down into the Basement of whatever and shown the alien sitting there This is what I say about aliens with when in regards to Trump if there's anybody that would fucking tell us It's him. He tweeted tweeted immediately. He would tweet it. Yeah, you tweeted looking at an alien's UFOs are real But CNN is fake. Yeah Failing New York Times fails to find you If the government does have the evidence they are never gonna show it to Trump right that's the problem Yeah, what the fuck's the point being president if you can't find out about UFOs Yeah, if I knew that to become president meant you get all the access to UFOs. I'm Michael. Yeah, okay Well, so very good try for that the presidents who have tried haven't gotten there No, no one gets it like Jimmy Carter Jimmy Carter, you know said he was he had a UFO experience. Yeah, he saw something right? Yeah, you saw he said he saw some but they see that was back in the 70s where everybody was seeing They were all talking about things as part of the zeitgeist was people were legit like after close encounters of the third kind Especially people legitimately thinking that aliens were gonna come. Yeah, he proposed such a possible scenario And that movie was so good. Yeah, it wasn't anything you expected it was gonna be but like here I was gonna say here like another example is like the random some like like that explanation of the f-16s locked, you know footage Like Randall some forest where the the they claimed that these American soldiers in the woods out in England Mistook the light a lighthouse light for a spacecraft That they were within 20 feet of a craft that they saw and took notes on drawings of yeah They want not even like right up against it and they you know wrote down notes I like different sort of hieroglyphs on the ship itself described. It's you know described the feel of it this electrostatic feel of being around it and The official explanation was they mistook a lighthouse Several miles away for this spacecraft. So Occam's razor again says That's hard to believe that these trained observers and that's the other thing they always try to dismiss the idea that trained observers are better observers But they are better observers sure in the age of yeah today where everyone has a High definition camera. Yeah in their pocket if you take in a if you taking a photograph of the moon on your Comes out super doesn't look like the moon. That's true. Yeah, right. There's no details comes out of the blur The lenses are too wide. Hmm, but but Occam's razor says alright, they saw something But this you know because what is the likelihood that trained observers who have been on this base for years on This night would mistake a lighthouse that they've seen every night for the entire time. They've been on this base for a UFO. I Mean what is the the likelihood that that explanation is correct? I'm not aware of that story. Oh Randle some force Yeah, how do you say it bent woods? Randall's own Randall's home and the R and D Les h a m Randall's from Forest. Yeah, it was bent woods. It was too nice a character actor on Colombo where you have worried There was you have and it was oh and it's a nuclear installation and Randall's forest The nuclear installations are always ripe with UFO. Yeah Yeah, what year was this? This was in the 80s 1980. Yeah. Hmm Interesting and it's you know and said obviously the obvious explanation is another explanation The only thing you can accept is that these observers saw something right described it accurately Is it something that had crashed if you want to say that no it came down was was? Landed in the forest and then took off What do you think of the raw in case the night before that Roswell? I I think it's probably true Really? You're all in yeah, well David I never knew that about you, but I mean because it's interesting again because because the cover stories for are so much less believable Than an alien. Yeah, I used to have a joke about it Yeah that they they put on the paper that they have recovered a crashed UFO and alien bodies and the next day They said up we made a mistake. It was just a balloon Yeah, what about the aliens yeah those are Mexicans yeah, they're Mexicans they were drinking apparently they thought the balloons are pinata They got a little crazy. Yeah, I believe in you right now, but we just invented some new stuff Yeah, I don't know where and then 30 years later. They go. Oh, we were they were high-altitude Dummies that we were dropping that's right to test how they would fall and now we have lasers and invisibility cloaks Well, they showed up again the next day with a bunch of weather balloon scraps now like look this Is it the guy holding up like what they don't tell you is that they flew the wreckage out to Wright Patterson Air Force and two separate planes and the Truman met them there yeah Yeah, yeah, so I mean again the more rational two separate planes Because they were worried that one would crash the the weather the weather balloon thing is not Something weird happened. I listened. I want it to be an alien so bad Question myself, so that's my problem. I want to do that stuff, but I again I I won't like I'll be skeptical about stuff that just seems crazy or people that you know Believe you know sort of ascribe some sort of metaphysical explanation for all this My my thing is just well if the preponderance of the evidence says something happened right, but doesn't tell you what happened Right then you still have to believe something happened not knowing what happened isn't evidence that it didn't happen and yet You're still a flat earther. Yeah Have you looked outside? It seems fine. Yeah