How Will We Fix America's Broken Tax Code? | Joe Rogan and Tulsi Gabbard

Um, you were talking about universal basic income earlier and you were saying it in regards to dealing with impoverished communities. But one of the big issues that people think we're going to need universal basic income for is automation. Yeah. Something that Andrew Yang has built his whole platform on Elon Musk has talked extensively about it. We are in a situation where there was an article today about Amazon using automo, auto, these, um, I forget exactly how they described it, but essentially robots that are packaging things and automation is going to start taking over many non-skilled jobs. And this is true with the travel industry, with trucking, with moving things, shipping, that we are going to see less and less of these unskilled jobs. And we're going to see millions of people out of work and that universal basic income may be the only way to bridge that gap between them finding some sort of viable new source of income. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's certainly part of it. I think that's a, I mean, it's a strong argument. We got to figure out how we pay for it and how it actually, uh, you know, achieves that intended objective, uh, but also look at, um, making that, those kinds of investments in, in how do you train a whole new workforce and in what new areas? So you know, you're taking people who are working in, in, you know, really tough, tough labor jobs, you know, you hear all these stories about people who are working at Amazon, very long hours, very stringent timelines. Uh, and, and so if they're now being replaced by automation or robots or whatever it is, um, you know, let's look at our, our economy and see how we can, um, you know, help train folks for, for jobs that pay more money, uh, and, and hopefully help offer a better quality of life. And I think that's overall, when we look at this, um, I think that's, that's the way that we should be addressing this is not just a job as a job as a job as a job, but really looking at the quality of life of people in this country, that a job does not equal happiness or, or fulfillment. Um, but really looking at, um, you know, parents who, who have a child and who want to be able to spend some time at home raising that child or, you know, someone who wants to start, start a small business and work out of their home to be able to hang out with their kids more or whatever the case may be. I think as we look at this and how we make this transition in a positive way in this country, uh, we've got to look at it from this comprehensive approach. Yeah. The idea of these people that are working in these fulfillment centers being happy, it seems pretty ridiculous. Yeah. They're not happy. They have those jobs as people are in backbreaking, incredibly stressful positions where if you read the reports, I mean, I don't know how accurate their reports of what the job is like, but they literally run from one place to another. They're timed. Yeah. And then bathroom breaks or time limits. Yeah. Yeah. This part of the problem with the idea that companies are supposed to constantly make more and more money as you get ruthlessly competitive people looking at the bottom line in every single aspect of that business. And one of the things that suffers is human, human sac, satisfaction. And their, their sacrifice has to be greater because they, they have to find a way to justify their position in the company. Yeah. And so they get paid very little. They work very hard. Yeah. And now they're getting replaced by robots. And meanwhile with, with a company like Amazon paying, not only paying no taxes, I think this is for the third year in a row. Yeah. And they're also getting, I think this last year was over $125 million tax credit on top of it. That sounds hilarious. Jeff Bezos has how much? Right. He's got $150 billion and he's going to give $75 to his wife and the whole thing is ridiculous. Right. And it's what people who lean socialist point to when they talk about unchecked capitalism without any sort of regulation that can stop something like that from happening and stop workers from being exploited in that way. Yeah. And people say, Hey, you don't, you don't have to have that job. If you don't, you know, you don't want that job, don't take it, but no one should have to have that job. How about that? Yeah. How about if, if there's a job that makes you have timed bathroom breaks and run from one place to another, you should get paid a fuckload of money for that job. That job should be something that it, it sucks all day long, but dude, I make $5,000 a week and people are like, what? Yeah, man. Eight hours a day. Five thought you got to run. Yeah. You can save up your money, man. You're making a lot of money that way. Yeah. People would go, Oh, okay. Yeah. And Amazon would still make a shitload of money if they did it that way. But automation. But those are people barely making, I mean, they're barely making minimum wage. It's crazy. Yeah. I mean. So that's where I think, you know, as, as, and look, this automation, um, really changing our economy is something that, that I think we're behind the curve ball on because it's already happening, but let's try to, to see the opportunity in that where if robots are going to start taking over those backbreaking jobs, then, then let's try to find, uh, you know, new and innovative ways for people to work and to earn a living that's actually bringing value to them. That sounds awesome on paper, but how would one ever do that? That's what we've got to work out. And it's not, I'm not saying like, Hey, there's a government solution to this and snap your fingers and it's all done. No. The government has a role at private sector, private business has a role. Um, and we've got to, we've got to work together because this is all of our futures. How do you imagine any potential, any possibility, any potential solution? Well, I think there's, there's pieces of it, right? I mean, it's, it's making sure that we close these, these loopholes that, uh, tax loopholes that allow companies like Amazon to get away with paying no taxes and to get this much money back as a tax credit. How do they do that? Oh gosh. I mean, our tax code is so complicated. You know, it has to do with the write offs and how many years and depreciation and all of these different things that they plan for, uh, and they exploit in order to pay no taxes and to get money back in return. It's just so weaselly. It is. And, and it's this crony capitalism that's really at the heart of this problem. How, how do we, how do they get that kind of sweet deal? When you look at the tax code that's written, when you look at the tax bills that are passed, who are the people who are helping influence and write those bills? They're the big paid lobbyists that Amazon has in Washington who are saying, Hey, this is something that we want to see in there and working with lawmakers who they're cozy with to get that legislation in there. Well, this is one of the things that, uh, has come out about Trump over the last week or two is that he lost a billion dollars over the course of X amount of years and that this is not really accurate, but that this is how he set like this, which you declare. He basically did. He basically said it's sport is what he said. His description was that it's sport. So essentially he was playing within the rules. No one's accusing him of doing anything illegal, but the way he framed his taxes, the way he, it turned out to be more than a billion dollars worth of losses over a period of something like a decade. Yeah. And, uh, you know, people were like, what the hell is that? He's like, look, that's what I was trying to tell you. He was basically trying to say, look, this is something that I was telling you people about when I was running for president, that the system is rigged. I know because it was a part of the rig system and I paid these people off. Yeah. Um, it is rigged. But how could you get in without getting assassinated? How do you get in and say, Hey, all you billionaires that are making all this money, you're going to make less money now because of Tulsi. President Tulsi is coming in. There's a new sheriff in town. Yeah. Sheriff with an army of people in this country mobilizing saying this government was put in place to serve us, to serve the people and as much money and high paid lobbyists as these guys have. Ultimately it is the people of this country who cast the votes and it's ultimately the people in this country who have the power. If we choose to use it, if we choose to make sure that our voices are heard and that, that is the way that we make this change. So would you have to simplify the tax code? Would you have to make things heavily, heavily simplify the tax code? And you know, I'm working with my team. We're doing our research to figure out exactly what that would look like. But I think we do have to simplify the tax code because it is so many of these loopholes and massive corporate deductions that have brought us to the place where we are today, where most folks are not getting any kind of meaningful deduction. Most folks certainly are not getting the kinds of tax breaks that these corporations are getting because it's these corporations are influencing how our tax laws are written and it's written to benefit them, the ultra rich and the 1% and people who are working very hard every single day are struggling. They're still struggling just to get by. What kind of dirty tricks do you think they will pull out against you? If you try to fix the tax code and try to make corporations accountable and make sure that they have to pay, if they're coming after you now and you're just making waves and getting ready for 2020, I mean, it could be, it could be pretty gross. Yeah. Yeah. But I just, I don't underestimate the power of people. That's what I tell them, you know, and they've been playing these dirty tricks for a long time. There is more and more people, I think in this country who are paying attention and who are calling them out on it, don't underestimate the power of the people. You know what I think too? I think it'd be better for them. Like Jeff Bezos, you know, you fucking people over and not paying taxes, bro. So much money. And I'm sure he pays taxes. I don't know what he pays, but you know, the idea that Amazon's figured out how to weasel that out. Like that's preposterous. I mean, you hear stuff like, you know, Warren Buffett talks about this, about he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary, right? It's a famous line. How is that? Because he has, look, he's figured out all of these holes within the tax system that he can benefit from to pay lower taxes when most people don't have that ability. And as a business person who's also fairly ethical, you have to be perplexed. Like, like, what do I do here? Do I just do the right thing and give, give more money to charity and balance it out? Or do I just take these cuts where they are and let everybody know, hey, look how much money I pay. This is how broken the system is. This shit's, this shit's wack. Yeah. I mean, like ultimately what you're saying, you know, as business owners, whether small business owners or these large corporations, I mean, look, it is these large multinational corporations that are exploiting the system and exploiting the people and represent the worst of these crony capitalist policies. And so when I talk about changing this culture of leadership at the top, it's bringing these values of service above self. This has to happen within our government, but we as a society need to encourage ourselves bringing these values of service above self to our businesses, to every sector of our community. Because just because you run a business and you make a profit doesn't mean that you can't be a servant leader. And to think about, hey, how can I make a positive impact? Yes, for my employees and for their families, but on society, on our community, on our environment. And I think for the people that are running these corporations, there would be real value in appreciating the fact that we're all in this together. And you're not going to live that long. You just don't have that much time. Nobody does. You got 100 years if you're lucky. And you're probably, if you're running a corporation, you're probably on death's door. And you've got kids. And you've got kids. Generations who will live with the repercussions, the decisions that are being made. And the argument is that if you force them to pay more taxes, then there's going to be less jobs because they're going to have to make cuts. But that seems like a ridiculous argument to me. It's the same one that's been made all along. It's just, you're used to it. That's all it is. You're used to these loopholes. You're used to it, so you want to keep them there. And if they take away those loopholes, you're going to punish other people because you don't want to be punished yourself financially. That's what's really going on. And this is coming from me, who's a financial dummy. I don't spend any time analyzing the financial situation in this world. But I can see that. That's pretty obvious. No, it's glaringly clear. And the impact that it's having on people is also glaringly clear. People are seeing this.