Eric Weinstein on Antifa and Andy Ngo | Joe Rogan

I think our problem in this country, there's many problems, but one of our problems is the loudest voices on the fringes. And this is one of the things that I want to discuss with you is what's going on in Portland. Yeah. And I think what's going on in Portland is the loudest voices on the fringes that the people on the right and on the far right and are recognizing as emblematic of the left, they think it defines the left. And I don't think it does. And I think it's a symptom of, first of all, terrible government of someone who's allowing this to flourish inside the mayor of Portland who seems to be supporting this in some sort of a weird way. Weird way. And ideologically believes that ANTIFA, just because of a name, stands for anti-fascist. If you had no name, which you would have is a bunch of hood wearing, mask wearing, violent thugs who are beating people who disagree with them. Because that's what we saw with that. Andy, how do you say his name? Go? I think it's Andy No. No. And it's NGO. Right? I treat the G as silent until somebody corrects me. I think you're right. What you saw from that video, that anyone could support that with a person who's just talking. What I've seen of him, what they've tried to describe, that he supports neo-Nazis, that he supports the proud boy. I've seen none of this. I've seen no evidence of this. But I've seen the narrative trotted out over and over again as a justification for violence against him. When the left supports bullying in the worst possible form, ganging up on someone, punching them, hitting them with sticks, crowbars, all this crazy shit, thinking that it's okay to throw milkshakes at people, thinking that this is fine. This is nothing. I think this is a horrible precedent to set. And it's a terrible move. If you're playing a game, it's a terrible first move. Because things only escalate. They don't de-escalate. No one says, wow, you beat the shit out of Andy No. So this is a mystery. Right. Like, what the hell is going on right now? You're allowing people to wear masks and carry backpacks with weapons. And there's a natural human inclination when someone gets hit to jump in and hit them too. You see it all the time. Watch World Star. Go to worldstarhiphop.com and watch someone gets hit, a bunch of people just jump in and hit them. It happens at truck stops and fucking high schools. It happens- People get brain damaged. People touch each other all the time. People permanent injury. When you're seeing in Portland, there was one of them where an old guy got hit in the head with a fucking crowbar by some masked kid because the old guy apparently disagreed. They all disagree on things. I don't think- And someone's decided to hit people. My guess is that the old guy is not exactly as portrayed. I believe that the old guy may have been there with a telescoping baton. Oh, so he was hitting people. I think this is so worthwhile, but let's do it right. Because I think this is so mysterious. What the hell are people doing supporting Andy No being beaten up on video? So let's stay with him. Because that's the best, clearest example of someone who's a tiny little gay man. He's tiny. I mean, he represents so many different maligned populations, right? He's pretty intersectional. Yes. He's Asian. He's an immigrant. He's an immigrant. He's gay. Is he a Republican? I thought he was left of center, but I was told that he was a conservative journalist. Well, I've been told I'm a fucking alt-right guy. So it's very confusing. He's also diminutive in physical form. He's not threatening physically, right? And they've chosen this guy as an example. And one of the more disturbing things were how many people saw the video and were justifying it. Saying things like, get another hobby. The anti-fascist will not stand for your bigotry and your hate. Like what are you talking? Okay. You think it's okay to punch this guy? The fact that you guys all piled on and punched him through a milkshake item? This is so subtle. I've been thinking a lot about it. I have a model. I'm happy to hear yours because there is a mystery. Can we both agree at the beginning that you would imagine that that video would have shocked people and to find so many people sort of excusing it is really shocking? Well, it's- And given that he's also clearly intersectional, like you wouldn't predict this from first principles. Right. No, you wouldn't. If you looked at it on paper, you definitely wouldn't, especially if you allowed him to self identify as left to center. Okay. So here's how I think the model goes. Okay. Unless you want to give yours first. No, go ahead. All right. The first thing that we have to understand is that there's a division, and I want to lay this out super carefully. The first division is between the, what you're calling the loudest voices, and I'm going to call the most courageous, well, I don't want to call it courageous, the most willing to accept loss. The voice is most willing to accept loss. Most of the left does not want to be dragged to the extreme left. And so you hear this thing about, why are you focusing on a fringe? And the answer is because the fringe is running the show, in my opinion. What do you mean by willing to accept loss? If you go into an Antifa versus Proud Boys melee, you're willing, you accept that you may get clocked with a bike lock. I don't think that's correct. I don't think that's correct. I think you're dealing with people that have no concept of real violence, no experience of real violence. They're warping. Have you seen, yes, they're, it's fucking cosplay. It's cosplay warping. Have you seen the image of the guy who's a suspect? Looks like he's never worked out a day in his fucking life. Looks like he's never been outside. And I think these people are playing a fucking game. We've agreed on this. Yes. Okay. But you are willing, so you think you're going to get into a Wile E. Coyote versus the Road Runner kind of a thing where both of them always survive to the next cartoon. They have no idea what they're doing. Have you ever seen a fight between people that have no idea how to fight? Yes. Yeah. Okay. We all have. I've been one of those. Okay. That stuns me as a martial arts expert. Yeah. It stuns me that people are willing to participate in that. I get in a motorcycle and getting in a race. Right. I don't know how anyone's willing to do that, but they're willing to do that. And they're willing to do that because they're delusional. They're delusional. And they're supported in their delusional perspective by the giant numbers of them. They all get together. And then they wear masks, which further emphasizes this illusion that they're a part of the game. But Joe, look, assume that you are not even in a physical situation. You're willing to be very loud on social media about very simplistic perspectives. Yes. You're willing to become a pariah at some level because... Are you though? I think mostly you're supported. Okay. There's far more support. I'm not necessarily... You are going to trigger so many times on this explanation that I probably just need a little place in the table to start building this up and then you can tear it to the hell of a time. Okay. Okay. The first belief that I have is that the fringes are much more running the show than the people who claim that this is a small number of people believe. That the fringes are scary. Fringes are willing to go places the rest of us aren't. I agree with you. On both sides. Left and right. Left and right. So I spend a lot of time focused on the fringes because the fringes have become terrifying and the middle has become cowardly. And the whole principle about the whole idea of a new thing was about creating a non-cowardly core that could actually potentially hold the center because people are actually fairly courageous. Like you would have to say my brother is fairly courageous. Ben Shapiro, Andy Ngo, Sam Harris. These are people who've stood up to death threats. You know, I have a guy who's threatening me every day of my life, you know, coming through the internet and my family. You have to have some courage in order to be part of this thing. And that's part of my irritation when people come after it. So there is a cowardly center and a very terrifying fringe and the fringe is going around the whole thing. Right left and right. The next thing is that people are secretly weirdly sympathetic with their violent, the violent fringe to their extreme rather than making common cause across the center. So for example, you imagine that you run a laundromat and you're being visited by a member of organized crime every week. And he comes into your laundromat and he kind of plays with your stuff and he says, oh, it'd be a shame if anything happened to your business and he shakes you down. Starts saying, oh, you know, I noticed that you have a daughter. I would love to date her. Perhaps we'll go out sometime. You hate this guy. Even some sort of violent vigilante element that's operating extra judicially after you've gone to the police over and over again, breaks this guy's kneecaps. Right? You're weirdly sympathetic with the vigilante because you're being terrified by a group that is not being taken care of. I think that this is in part why some elements of the left that are should be more responsible, that have institutional positions, that have platforms that they can broadcast are weirdly sympathetic to Antifa. And why country club Republicans are weirdly sympathetic to some of these far right groups is that they view them as this is the dangerous group that's kind of taking care of the problem that I can't stand up to. So you've got this bizarre cowardly sympathy from the center who won't actually stand up and say, I have more in common with a country club Republican, like in my case, I view myself as a progressive or at least a liberal. I have more in common with a country club Republican than somebody who's got a bike lock, who's looking for trouble in a street demonstration trying to smash up a Starbucks. Right? I don't want the help from my left. Now the group that wants to play this out using these sort of proxy groups to handle the problems is saying, look, we're going to sound an air horn before one of these things so that all reasonable people can get the hell out of the way. And if you don't respond, then you're collateral damage and that's on you. That's how they see this. I think that's where. So in other words, I think Andy, no, is the guy who doesn't listen to the air horn. Brett Weinstein doesn't listen to the air horn. Jordan, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, don't listen to the air horn. I think that's very accurate in your description of these fringe people doing the work of the people that are more reasonable, but are happy to have these bad people do their work to fight this battle for them because they think that ultimately it's for good. Yeah. I need my organized crime group to get rid of your organized crime group. Right? And so the idea is that the law and order people are like, I really don't want anybody's organized crime group and I'm going to actually stand up to the mob and I'm actually not going to pay you your goddamn protection money because I'm going to own a laundromat and this is the United States of America and fuck off. That's the view that I represent. I don't want, thank you, Antifa, I don't need your help. Yeah, you know what? I actually am much more afraid of the far right. And the reason I concentrate my negative energy on the far left is what are you trying to do? You're trying to get the genie out of the bottle on the far right? That is the danger. Yeah, you want to see more tiki torches? It's not tiki torches that you need to worry about. It's armed people who come and they're not bringing bike lots. Well, we're pushing ordinary human beings to the extremes. Yeah. Right? And the thing that I get is that I believe that the Republican Party, I never get a chance to say this stuff. I have never gotten along with the Republican Party. I just don't like it. I view it as the thing that wants to exclude me from the country clubs. I have an older model. They're the group that wanted to put in condo developments in Yosemite Valley because they couldn't figure out why we would want to preserve the national parks. They were the ones that laughed about clubbing the baby seals. Ha, ha, ha. I just always had this attitude, fuck these people. Right? This is my emotional cadence. And we always had this thing where the Democrats were the... We had most of the smart people. And so in a tiny fraction of time, we have seen this giant evaporation of intelligence, if not actually through a lack of courage, the people who represent responsible left-wing thinking, who believe in structural oppression but don't believe in the extent claimed, you know, who want to keep making progress, who want to make sure that traditionally marginalized groups are taken care of, that we take our responsibilities but not our guilt as the reason for trying to make a better world.