Eric Weinstein Asks Joe About the Kanye Podcast

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Eric Weinstein

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Eric Weinstein is a mathematician, economist, and managing director at Thiel Capital. www.ericweinstein.org

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Hey, what happened, uh, what did we know about the Kanye situation where he was going to talk about mental health? I was kind of excited about that. I, you know, if he wants to, he can do it. I'm not... Yeah, don't... He's a... He's his own thing. He is a brilliant artist, but oftentimes with brilliant artists, it's not... It's not the best format for them to just talk. Like, sometimes it's better for them to express themselves through their work. Maybe, although I found... You know, I spent two days with him, and I found that when he's in a relaxed frame, his flow state is just... It's beautiful. Well, I enjoyed talking to him. I talked to him on the phone. I really enjoyed our conversation. We had a nice conversation. He said, I think he's a very good dude. Very sensitive human being. Yeah, very cool guy. But this is not a relaxed environment. You know, this right here, everybody knows how many people are listening. It's just, it fucks people's head up. Really? Because the illusion that I have is just you and me talking, and then I come out of here and people are like, What did you say? Well, you and I are friends. So that illusion is more maintained when you don't know me and you come in. And I mean, I would have to be friends with him. That's one of the things he wanted me to come to his church. You know, he's running a cult, essentially. Everybody's wearing white. They're all dancing, doing religious stuff. I'd do that. Yeah. I'm busy, man. You're busy. Sunday's your family time. Sunday's your family time. Well, I just, I get it. I think it's beautiful. You know, he and I were walking down the road and you know, there was this crip alert, which is like, yeah, the crips from Long Beach said, you know, Kanye, you better stay in Calabasas. It was like a little bit of a tense situation. So we're walking along the road and like people were hanging out of the windows of their car. You're like, Kanye. And I think it was just like positive, you know, like wanting to make contact. But it was very disconcerting. And this guy was preternaturally calm. You know, he was just like, I was nervous. How long ago is this? This was, you remember when he went on TMZ? Well, we talked in a year or less. Yeah, I think it was probably a year ago. It's probably medicated. Not anymore. Oh, is that right? Yeah. Yeah. He talked openly about the fact that last six months or so, he's been off of his medication. And he, whatever they had him on was fucking with him creatively. Well, do you remember Oliver Sacks had this chapter and the man who mistook his wife for a hat about a drummer with Tourette syndrome? No. And then he took a drug to control the Tourette syndrome. And the guy's drumming became kind of monotonous, very regular, but like not creative. Yeah, look, what that guy's got inside of him, he's so prolific. I mean, you listen to his music, it's so interesting and eclectic and prolific. And he's just constantly turning out more great shit. He doesn't have any flops. I mean, his music is pretty fucking amazing. And he's just, that's his shit, man. He knows how to just get in there and create. And he's got this whirlwind going on in his mind. He's fearless. Yeah. He is exploring. I don't want to get into the details, but one of the things that really impressed me was he would go to places that I'm too scared to go to in my own mind. And just thinking about your inadequacies and externalizing them and your vulnerabilities and knowing what is going to emasculate you. And his point is like, I'm so comfortable with myself that I'm going to mine that as a source of art because I bet it's in everyone. And by exploring these contradictions and these false fronts and, he's got a level of internal access. I'm actually quite interested in the mental health aspect of this, which is there's so much mental unhealth as we term it that I don't think it's all mental unhealth. I do think that there's something about the artistic process that seems to be very informed by states that we call unhealth. Yeah. Well, we require people to stay inside these rigid boundaries. And these rigid boundaries, they're great if you want to show up at a job and work nine to five and don't use certain noises with your mouth because it makes people upset. But that's not for the creative process. You look at true outliers. If you want to discuss true outliers, like people that are really capable of producing extraordinary art or architecture or works, different interesting things that are part of the creative process. Those people are all unwell, every single one of them. I mean, in terms of like if you made them do what a normal person has to do every day, I think normal life is unwell in terms of this requirement of showing up five minutes early, working all day long, getting off, maybe bringing some of your work home, getting some sleep, getting up in the morning and doing it all over again, all while raising a family and trying to enjoy your time, your limited finite time on this planet. Well, this is why I said I've left. I'll say you left. Is that it's not healthy here.