Bari Weiss on Trump and the Mainstreaming of Alt-Right Ideas

But what's, I think one of the things that's alarming about our politics right now is like things that were just regarded up until like five years ago as the kind of lunatic fringe have made their way into mainstream politics. Like Steve Bannon proudly declared himself like and Breitbart as the platform of the alt-right and then Steve Bannon was sitting down the hall from the president of the United States. What was the alt-right in the beginning though? See the alt-right became something in the public eye. In the beginning I thought the alt-right was like young republicans that were a little different. I don't think that's what the alt-right is. No no no not now. For sure. But even then. My perceptions of the alt-right in the beginning was like what I thought Milo Yiannopoulos was when he first burst onto the scene. Sort of like a guy who's... But the whole thing that Milo has revealed right is like it was an ironic posture that reveals like if you're joking about you know fags and kikes you're still saying the thing. Well but he's gay and he's Jewish and so the idea was that he could get away with these things. Provocateur was the word I was looking for. That's essentially what he's doing and he's using that to build social currency right. That social currency is developing this large group of people that follow him and talk to him and he thinks that there's some merit to his idea so he finds some sort of justification for having these provocative conversations in this stance where he's saying these things and a big proponent of free speech and all these things are happening all at the same time. That's what I thought the alt-right was initially. What I thought the alt-right was initially was people that wanted a new younger more current take on what a republican is. And then it became racist and then it became you know all the things that we think of it now in terms of like public perceptions. Yeah. Like who calls themselves art right now? Who even says they're alt-right? I mean it's almost like such a pejorative like the label has become so toxic. But don't misunderstand the fading of the label for the power of the movement. It's just become kind of more normal republican now. Alt-right ideas have been subsumed by the Trumpist republican party to some extent. Like which ideas? I mean look like the idea that some Americans are less American than others that is certainly an alt-right idea that I think is extremely dangerous. I mean you saw it when here's here's a great example. When Trump went after the squad okay as and remember when he said that they should go back to the totally broken crime infested places that they came from. Right. Ha ha ha. Those people were three of them were born in America one is a naturalized US citizen. The idea there right as I heard it and maybe I'm hearing something you're not that some Americans because of their skin color or their ideas sort of have provisional belonging here for me is a very very it's more than a dog whistle. Right. It's something that is deeply un-American and deeply bigoted. If he had said that about one person who had come here from somewhere else that was awful and was criticizing America then that would have been a more valid statement and that would be like Ilion Omar is not from America initially. No Ilion Omar no but and I can't stand her ideas but she's a naturalized citizen who was sworn to uphold the values of the Constitution. She's just as American as me or Donald Trump or you. No I agree and I also agree that this idea that go back to where you were that sucks is the response to someone criticizing the way things are here is pretty ridiculous. Yeah. You don't have to go back to where it sucks. You're here and you're a United States citizen you just think that this place should be better. Yes and you can disagree with their ideas but that concept right that you're not entirely of a place that is something that has been used against Jews forever. The idea that you're not fully Iraqi because you're Jewish or you're not fully American because you're Jewish or you're not fully French because you're Jewish. Like the idea of provisional belonging is something that is that I'm extremely sensitive to. So it's a toxic tribalism that's attached to the concept that the alt-right ideas. But then the alt-right ideas like there's I mean look at who Steve Bannon has made common cause with right people like Nigel Farage people like Marine Le Pen. I mean there was a really good documentary about Steve Bannon where he's meeting with people who really are not just like normal conservatives. Who is Marine Le Pen? Marine Le Pen what is her party's name in France? She is a deeply xenophobic politician in France whose father was profoundly anti-Semitic. She claims that she's not but she's someone that you know you say her name in any Jewish community and. Yes she is president of the National Front. Just that name National Front. That sounds like Storm Front. It's really not. Marion Anne Perrine the French politician and lawyer serving as president of National Rally political party since 2011 with a brief interruption 2017. She's been the member of the National. It doesn't say what she does. It doesn't say. Okay. Anyway. So back to her. Or Jews or. Nigel Farage. Yeah I mean just like I don't know I see ideas getting expressed. Like there are people that Tucker Carlson has had on his show who are like avowed white nationalists. Like who? Recently. Can you Google that Jamie? There was a guy that he had on the other day. Or even these whistles right of like there's a way to criticize. Did you find it? Sorry. There's a way to criticize. Oh I lost my train of thought. No worries. There's a certain here goes list of Tucker Carlson's guests who have links to white nationalism. But has he agreed with these people? Has he argued against their ideas? Roger Stone. Roger Stone's a white nationalist? No. His links to white nationalism? Peter DeBroska. No I don't think this was. No there was something more recently. Wasn't the first white nationalist Tucker Carlson has hosted. Okay. It was 2018 anyway. I don't know. I mean are you not alarmed by the turn that you see in the Republican Party towards sort of like I don't know the Trumpist cult? Well I think one thing the Republican Party has done that's wise if you want to keep a solidified team is that they haven't come out against him and they've supported him. There's very little dissent. And this is a good idea if you want your team to win. Right? And there was a lot of people who were kind of never Trumpers who softened their stance once they realized the power of his presidency. That he's really dominant. They're sometimes Trumpers. Sometimes Trumpers, yeah. Yeah I'm alarmed. I'm alarmed by people, I'm alarmed whenever there's not, where there's outward, there's an outward lack of compassion. When there's an outward disdain for the other. Because essentially this country is all the other. The whole thing, that's all we have is the other. I mean that's the whole thing. Well in the whole thing that, yeah, yeah. I mean there's just, Trump is just beyond the sort of like, he said various things that are like, he was speaking to a Jewish group and he talked about your prime minister. I mean he said so many things that are ridiculous. But the big, big thing that he's guilty of is he has like dismantled the guardrails of the keep society decent and civil and normal. And like once you dismantle those things, like it's very easy to reverse, not very easy, but you can reverse policies. What's much harder to reverse is a culture. And he has just been gleefully making war on what I think of as very, very important cultural norms. Like. Like not attacking the weakest people in our culture. Like not attacking gold star families. Like I mean he has attacked, he's denigrated like the most heroic and the weakest people at our culture at every possible turn. Yeah, the gold star family thing was very disturbing and weird how it just kind of went away. I mean it didn't go, that was, I remember that moment. Remember when he, people forget this, when he said about Judge Alonso Curiel who was born in this country, that he couldn't give a fair hearing to Trump University because he was born in Mexico? I mean, this is an American. Did he say that? Yes. This, when was this, years ago? It was during the candidacy. Really? Was it? Yeah, we just confirmed. Wow, Jesus Christ. Yeah, that was like. Didn't he say something about loyal Jews wouldn't vote Democrat as well? Oh yeah, that the Jews are disloyal because they don't vote Republican because look at all the great things he's done for Israel. Yeah. If you're a loyal Jew to Israel, you would vote Republican. Yeah, or that the Jews who don't vote for him are disloyal. I mean, yeah, that was a high point. But I mean, just the main, like, I feel like I haven't given you a satisfying answer about anti-Semitism itself. I think the way to think about it. There it is. Trump's ex-judge. Do you remember this? It's too jarring to read. Indiana born federal judge who President Donald Trump once said could not be impartial because he was Mexican cleared a major obstacle standing in the way of Trump's long promised border wall with Mexico. Right. So I hear that and I'm like, oh, that's. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. It's all feeding this idea that like there are some people who are more American than others that are more belonging than others. Yes. And I think that idea is despicable. Right. It forces his tribe. Right. And that's one thing that Donald Trump has clearly done is calculate, cultivate rather a tribe. You know, he is a tribe. I mean, they have a fucking, they have a hat. Yeah. Right. They have a slogan and it's a weird slogan because it seems so positive. Make America great again. That seems positive, but it's not like if you, if you look, people punch you, if you have that hat on, it's so crazy. You've gotten to a point in society that something that's a positive statement like make America great again is so polarizing that people will be violent towards you and feel like they need to. They feel like they need to lie. Like you're the enemy. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.