Annie Jacobsen: Is Bob Lazar Credible? | Joe Rogan

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Annie Jacobsen

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Annie Jacobsen is an American investigative journalist, author and 2016 Pulitzer Prize finalist in history. Her latest book "Surprise, Kill, Vanish: The Secret History of CIA Paramilitary Armies, Operators, and Assassins" is available now.

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What do you think of Bob Lazar's story? Because Bob Lazar's story, there's some fascinating aspects to it. One of the most fascinating is some of the things that he's said that people said was horseshit has been proven to be true. Like one of the things, the biometric reader that measured the length of the bones in your hand and that they're as unique as a fingerprint and people are like, what are you talking about? And then they actually found out that this was something they really did have and they have photos of this thing now. This is something that he talked about and they claimed it was science fiction. I mean, it's fascinating when someone touches upon a subject that the government does not want known about for any reason. And there is a campaign to discredit that person. And there's no doubt that that happened to him. I mean, it was remarkable. And I write about him in the book because if you follow the logic that my source told me that these were, you know, modified human beings as part of a hoax. And the reason that I trust the source is because Joe, he told me that he also worked on the program. So he had like a burden to unload, right? And so if you follow that logic through, then the Bob Lazar story is that Bob, when Bob Lazar said, I saw an alien, it looked like this, it was small, it had big eyes. It's yes, those were the genetically, I mean, those were the surgically modified humans that the government was doing experiments on. I think Bob Lazar's exact quote was he walked by a window and he looked in and he saw two agents that were, they were looking down at something that was very small and looked humanoid, but he didn't know if it was a dummy or anything. And he wasn't even supposed to be looking in there. And it was a brief, like one second look that he has bounced around in his head back and forth. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the guy who gave that information did work there, but is also feeding you horse shit? Well, the source was a major player in the Manhattan Project. He went on and worked in the Atomic Energy Commission. I mean, there's a wing of a museum named after him. His accolades, his awards were so extraordinary. It would be- What's his name? You can't give it up? I'll say this. Well, you're giving it away. Like you're giving away a lot of the stuff that he- He recently died and he did give me permission to tell his full story after he died. And I'm circling around that. I'm circling around that. But he was absolutely, you know, with a cue clearance, that's what you have when you have access to nuclear secrets. So if someone has a cue clearance for decades and they're full of garbage, you really have to ask, my God, should this guy have a cue clearance? I mean, that's reverse engineering his credibility, but I think you should read the whole book because, you know, it's shocking what he says, but it does make sense if you can get through 400 pages of, you know, the CIA's idea about information, disinformation, why we need to cover things up. That's why I'm asking if you think that he might've been lying to you. I don't believe he was lying whatsoever. And he's feeding you disinformation. No, I don't believe. I don't believe- So you think that the Stalin, that the Russian government definitely did surgically alter people to make them look like aliens? I believe- Were there images of these things? I believe what he told me. Did you see photos? No, I did not see photos. But here's the rope. Ready? Okay. When I was writing another book called Phenomena, which dealt with the CIA and the Pentagon's use of psychics, okay, over decades. I mean, this goes back. Something I write about pretty much goes back to post-World War- All that remote viewing stuff? Yes. And it's all about government, US government takes pole position after World War II, and we now need to always be ahead of the curve. We must lead. We can never get beaten by the Russians. Now it's China, okay? So the psychic program had a lot of people who really believe in aliens or, you know, other intelligence from other worlds. And when I was writing the Phenomena book, I learned a whole bunch of new information about how upset they were with my story because they believe- and they all knew the source, by the way. They knew the source, and they believed that he was fed misinformation. So these are two sides of the coin, which are super interesting. I think if you can look at them with your own biased turned off and not have a desired outcome. I want to believe this. I don't want to believe this. Speaking of I want to believe, I was working on a project with Chris Carter, who is the X-Files creator. And the one person I took the source that I wanted to meet the source was Chris Carter, and we went out there together and sat with him and met him. And it was well because the source had never even heard of the X-Files. And it was like, oh, I know. How did you not- They talked about baseball, you know? Really? Yeah.