#1995 - Chad Stahelski

She could do that. Yeah, it's fresh if it's fresh you get like that close Just like yeah, no, I'm awake I'm gonna bring these to the comedy mothership. I'm gonna see I'm gonna take a big blast right before I go on stage Supposed to wake up your central nervous system or something. I don't even know there's any science to it No, it just sucks. Maybe just a bunch of psychos. I just like Freaking their brain out with smelling salts. I'm awake. Anyway, man, congrats on the movie looks awesome. Thank you Very exciting. Very nice to be here big fan. Thank you. My pleasure. It's uh, boy Jesus Christ is it over the top? It's so crazy I saw a thing online of the amount of people that John Wick has killed compared to like Michael Myers And I think Jason. Oh, yeah by a long Beat Rambo to yeah, I think you beat everybody but I think we had more deaths than can I spoke words in the movie? Oh for sure Everybody's bringing up to me. I think he said 308 words in the movie or something. Yeah. Well, listen it works It's perfect. Yeah something fun something for the guys. Yeah and the action fans and Everybody out there. Oh, yeah, it's murder porn Hopefully it's artistic murder. It's artistic. It is it's interesting how they're all so different too Like the fourth one is like almost like a comic book movie. It's like it's so over the top and crazy and graphic anime I think it's probably the best story that we've told hmm, but it's it's definitely wrapped up in the hyper real world You know, we get bored. So we wanted to go somewhere and do something. It's always like how do we start these things? What do we do? Like we never start with a concept Right, it's usually we're done. We're done We're never gonna do one again and then Japan and it gets released like six months after the rest of the world So we usually doing a press tour in Japan and we're sitting in the Imperial Hotel. They have an amazing Scotch bar And we start off with the first drink on thank God. It's done God, we survived and by like the fit of Scotch like hey, man, I got a great fucking idea. Let's have them fight ninjas And then that's how it starts and it's been that way for last three so you started off Yeah, and how did you how did you transition to becoming a director? Because that's like there's got to be a lot of barriers that are in the way I think different time for sure, you know before before cell phones before that stuff We started as a stunt guy before all the streamers You know, I was working for this guy Ernie or Saudi way back in the day brilliant stunk or in second You're the director on television and I was working on I don't know if you remember the old show like pretender Yeah, T white. Sure. Yeah, he could be anything that yeah, and I was doing a gig on that I just done a car hit. I think it was like 24. I split my head off on the wind show is a mess and Then he comes to me as I'm holding the ice pack on my head He's like, hey, they're having auditions for the sci-fi film and Burbank Yeah, like, you know, you're off you can if you hurry you can make it and I'm in jeans hit a t-shirt I'm bleeding and I'm like, all right. Yeah sure. Yeah, I'll go make it for that Keanu Reeves guy You know speed it come out like Keanu Reeves. I'll go see him. Sure. So you go up there and it was an audition for the Matrix and You know at the time you remember back in the day there weren't a lot of martial art movies at a big budget level It was like Steven Seagal or Bond on or You know Mark Dukoski saw those guys at the time and martial arts, you know, they didn't do them in big-budget films it was considered low budget, you know action porn kind of thing and We get there you get to this big warehouse in Burbank and you saw this guy really scruffy You're looking with a neck brace, you know, it's Keanu. He had just come out from neck surgery. Oh 15 Hong Kong and Chinese stuntmen there screaming and yelling and I said, hey, I'm here for the addition and I meet these These two fellas have come over and so Wachowski's at the time now Lana and Lily and They introduced themselves and we're like, hey, you know, I'm Chad. I'm here for the okay. Great. This is young Wuping. I was like, oh No, we don't told it and you will ping we knew from was the big Choreographer that started gently and Jackie Chan did like Iron Monkey. Oh Wow, it's part of time in China and all that stuff Mmm, so as you know ping and his guys and they're like, okay You just you just follow this guy and this little guy named tiger chat tiger chin I Fucking phenomenal guy could do triple flips where this could do anything a wish you champion I just follow that guy just do it. He does and from the next hour I tried, you know being the tall white guy trying to just keep up with him Can you do all that stuff God? No God? But I was pretty flexible had a good gym gymnastic background such well backflip I do the kicks I do all the spin hook kicks and you know We'd train with a lot of taekwondo guys and stuff So we were pretty good at all the kicking and punching and some of the acrobatics But then it got to a level he picks up a stick and now it's you know, it's you've seen the wish you guys Yeah going mental And I'm like, oh boy, you know at the end of an hour, you know I'm in jeans and a t-shirt still bleeding from my head wound. Oh Jesus. Did you have a concussion? I probably I think so knowing now we're looking back like yeah, it didn't seem too good But I finished I drove home thought well, I really screwed the pooch on that one I never thought I'd hear from those guys again and then like a month later I go. Hey, can you come back an exact same audition again? exact same and then got the call saying hey Would you like to double Keanu Reeves on this sci-fi movie in Australia? I was like, yeah Yeah, I got this other gig on TV. I think I'm gonna have to pass And the producer time was Barry Osborne who went on to do all the all the Lord of the Rings things and he was like Yeah, he's kind of little Saying no and I thought okay if I fuck that up, I'll never work again And then cut to two months later. It was in February and he calls back. It was like hey We had to push the shoot you available now. It's like yeah, actually I am so I literally flew to Australia like Two weeks later got there and within a day you realized oh this wasn't this isn't a normal show You saw the rehearsals you saw some of the sets you saw some of the footage and it was the fucking matrix Oh, wow So that's how we got in how I got in with the which house keys and I spent the next eight and a half years With them through all the matrix sequels and all there some of their other shows and with James We're doing V for vendetta just lived in the which house key world and that that's probably one of the most incredible film schools You'll ever have. Yeah, that's where I got to do a Keanu and all that cut two years later after all that Count and I had worked together for so long in there He he knew I'd been doing a lot of second unit directing which for people that don't know it's the action to the the fight scenes The car chases the Sun sets all the shit first unit doesn't want to do it Usually big big action sequences so they have these action directors or second unit guys go out and do the units Kind of do it more efficiently without without the cast with the stunt doubles and such and Kind of gotten this script they thought was something interesting about it. It's called scorn and it was the original John Wick script where how did it become called John Wick? Derek Colstead's grandfather's name is John Wick Instead being the writer of it. So he just gave tribute to his grandfather. Come wick John Wick Wow, pretty trippy. Yeah, and so and that how did that become the name of the movie? Keanu at the original scripts scorn the guy was like 65. He lives in a little brown. So it was very very grounded Crip, I think only two people died in the original script. It was like one that's hilarious. It was very It was very cold war old-school But the gold coins came from because you didn't want to leave a paper trail. It had very simple little ideas Wow, and he handed it to myself and was like, hey, would you like to take a look at this? I was like sure sure sure I read it and I was like, yeah I don't know what to do with this action wise. He only kills two people. It's like well We're trying to change it and we're thinking of this. I'm like, well, I You know, he's like would you like to direct it? I was like, whoa. Yes as a matter of fact I had no experience directing and then you direct John with yeah, just second unit Do me and my partner time Dave leech I call Dave that was on a Friday called Dave on a Saturday going Hey, we might have a shot. We got to put a pit it's together in 24 hours So I always had this idea about Greek mythology and how we could layer it and do this like I'm a big Tolkien fan So, how do you take a fantasy gig and make it right modern day? So we're like, let's take it That way and we'll put gods and Greeks and Sharon and the River Styx and we'll make this Whole Zeus thing going on and we kind of laid it and Keanu just heard it on Monday went hmm interesting And he said sure you want to do it I'm like, yeah, you know me and my partner Dave But we'll co-direct will do this and we doted to the yeah producer Basil ionic the next day and he goes well Yeah, I don't want you sure we had done a little tape on that Sunday about you know, the gun food stuff We took aikido aikijitsu Put it while the close-quarter tactical shit with some reloads and we did a quick little previs in our in our space 87 11 back in LA And showed to him everybody thought oh my god, this is gonna be you know, great can can I do it? We're like, yeah, I hope so Where did the magazine reload flip come from that? Funny thing that I'm gonna give total cred to Keanu Wow hundred percent. He started doing that in the second one I'm like, dude, what are you doing? He's like I was like, that's awesome. It is awesome people do that check. Yeah, it's a legit thing. Yeah competition You know crazy that is that an actor for a film decides to come up with a thing and it's actually a quicker way To eject a magazine eating into a unit forehand and back in He does it with the AR too. Like you're watching the second one to do a quick flip with the air I don't know put it on that you're like, well Well, he really really trained for that movie that's him You can really tell I mean, it's there's films where guys do tactical scenes where you go like, okay You know, I can buy it but but in that movie typical military way of cutting through, you know Pying the corner. Yeah on stuff the very tactical sense. I think you're right. I I see that It's just it's like with martial arts. You can do the quick finger jab in the eye, right? Yeah, some once in a while That's the kado beat is cool. But choreography and for the visual of it I think sometimes you have to add something you have to show people something they kind of expect Subvert it and give them something a little bit different. Yeah, I set up a little bit So I think we went more with the competition sense, you know, I saw a turn online You know JJ Perry a buddy of mine introduced me to turn online and I saw a Taren And I saw some of the quick I was like fuck. That's what we got a little spice in this. Yeah And sent kiano out there and he Taren is such a freak. Oh my god freak it like he should know Let's be honest. No one should be that good The speed that he has is so insane how many people have you seen they're good at what he's such a good guy, too He's such a fun guy to be around so easy going and what a great instructor too because he's so calm and easy And he's got a naturalistic approach. It's just follow your body He's one of the only reasons I like to go back to LA For real. He's the only reason I go to see me Valley Well, that's I mean whenever I'm in town I always make a trip and you get better every time right? Sure by watching it you can see and I you know, I was up there just yesterday as a matter of fact picking up something and I had introduced him to an actor about like three before weeks ago and he had taken this cast member in just three sessions and The cast member happened to be up there yesterday and to watch what he had done with him in three weeks It I mean granted there is a little natural ability either I could tell but like the progression and how fast he gets you from Just pointing a firearm to drawing it hip shooting pressing walking and running through the course Yeah, I mean it's hard to explain right into you actually yes You can see it online But when you're there and seeing how fast the pings are coming and actually watching Tarrin go through the obstacle course Yeah, it's it's it's really really impressive. No, he's a freak. He's weird But like something's going on in his brain. Do you think like there's something about the hand-eye coordination? We all have a little bit Especially martial arts, but that's not like that. That's no well, obviously he's been doing it forever But there's some he's got some God-given ability. It's got to be some autism, right? Yeah 100% he can just eat I've seen him do things where he's looking one way and he's still lining up like he just knows that What would you call it like that physical dissimilar that body memory? Yeah, the motor muscle memory to get in there and no red dot he's doing it all through the all our insights Oh old school which and that's how he teaches which I love. Yeah, I love it too because he says red dots fail I've had red dots fail all the time. Yeah all the time and you're like, what the fuck is it fucking shit? I ain't you're fucking with it. And he's just like okay as you're fucking around with it. I'm just gonna go shoot Come on bullseye, but he's been he's been very good. Like I'm naturally left-handed But I always shoot with him right-handed But he's helped me so I can he's got me to the point where I can kind of go through the rain With both hands and same dominant eye which is a bit of a trip next day you go try to try alternate hands Mmm, it'll mess with your but it I think it'll help your sighting. I'm sure everything You do with your left hand will help your right hand. I learned that from martial arts Yeah, they did someone told me that a long time ago that if you practice your bad side It actually improves the technique on your good side. I think it helps you think in a different way, right? Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons why left-handed people are so good at things What they say like, you know back in the day, you know gladiatorial or whatever like the left-handed because it was hard It wasn't so much that they were better. They just you weren't used to to To fighting with them. Well, I think also well, there's definitely that like when you spar with people especially in boxing Yeah, when you go some are southpaws, it's so confusing Well, it's not your footwork. Yeah, I keep stepping on their foot exactly kickboxing. Maybe it's a little bit different Well kickboxing your well MMA in particular like the elite guys like San Hagen these guys They they switch stances constantly constantly and so this is you're getting Overloaded with possibilities all the time, which makes it so interesting when you get to these high-level guys You know when you get to like an Israel out of Sonya guy, they they give you so many looks You don't know what the fuck is changing that stance all the time and fainting all the time and it's very interesting I came up I did a lot of box from say like Savat Which is very open stancy like they'd move its constant motion if you watch those old Savaka guys, right? So they would fall from a false lead and you see so much of that now Yes leads are switched so you don't it's hard to gauge or set them up. Yes, it's fascinating to watch now I think athletes today, especially in martial arts are like just Right whole nother level whole nother level. You can't even The best of the best it's there. No one's ever been better. It's like martial arts I've always said this that since 1993 in the last 30 years Martial arts have evolved more than they have over the last 30,000 years completely agree. No question No, we're family butts the the fitness the training mentality and just the Bad of a lacrity that these guys have the ability to I mean they're insane athletes someone but to kick punch shoot And grapple and not miss a beat and get right back up. Well, you just watch me. It's almost choreography. That's how Good they're being trained. I mean there's zero range, you know before it used to be like jab jab jab You can shoot it now. It's like they can change ranges on the fly They're so good at it and they're they're switching levels on you like they're they're doing one thing to set up a takedown They're using takedowns to set up strike. It's I mean, it's it's amazing. It's mental. It's so mental Gary how good it is. It really is because it's so much Different than any other version of martial arts that existed before the UFC came along. I think we had become so divided Mm-hmm. You know, you were just the kicker you were just the puncher. Right? It was almost a stylistic Civil war going on like my kung fu could be your country. Well, yeah, I kick him will beat your punching your my Like what what did you start training in? I was originally a judo first It's did a lot of judo back when I just like when I was 10 to like 16 then I started Karate, it was like a Kyoko Shinkai Coco condo karate and Japanese jiu-jitsu Did that all the way till I came to I went to school at USC from Massachusetts And I got here and I bumped in this guy Burt Richardson who was a big student Anasana, yeah, and Burt was teaching like it just a collie class collie and and see lot Over at USC and I met him and I was a big fan of Dan and a sign up from all the sure black belt magazine Yeah, so he hooked me up and I got into the in a sauna Academy and that's where they went mental and we studied with like Francis Fong and Paul de Tois for Indonesian sea lot we had like every other Filipino instructor you could imagine from that We had Francis us Ali and from I mean Francis and Chenard and Salim Asuli for Savat Sir Chai sir suit from wait. Hi And then we get these, you know guest appearances by like all these great martial art instructors. Oh, that's awesome And that's where I met this guy Jeff Amato at the time Was a very big stunt coordinator and he kind of recruited us into the stunt world from there. Oh That's great. Wow. So and so then you get into the stunt world you're doing that for years and years and This is so crazy that John Wick is your first breakthrough movie as a director and it's a fucking Gigantic we tried to look for some those kind of bulletproof. We figure very short story. Oh, man Guy goes, you know, and then we kind of layered in with the subtext of grief and suffering and every It's perfect. It was all about the pups. See who's the Russian gentleman the guy who plays the father? Yeah, Michael Nyquist Yeah, that guy was so good. He was in the Dragon tattoo and I think he did the third mission impossible. I think it was a guy in he died recently, right? Yeah, he died a couple years ago. I think he I don't know if it was a heart attack or stroke But he died. He still has a nice a charity thing that they do every year for him Fantastic guy Fucking scene Swedish actor the scene he's explaining to his son who's also awesome. The guy was in Game of Thrones What is his mouth? Alfie Allen that guy's incredible. Good. We cast a lot of Game of Thrones. Oh my god Game of Thrones. He's so good He's such he plays such a good fuckhead. Oh my god. He's such a good prick, but yeah in life It's so funny. He is the shyest quiet. It is super nice Like hardest we're just never left set always they're ready to do his thing the sweetest kid ever Yeah, well, I can believe it and he just play it. He's so good at the role Oh my god, but that scene when he's at the bar pouring the drink Yeah, explain it giving him the little fairy tale of the Baba Yaga. Oh, it's such a good scene You know, we were kind of laughing at ourselves We're like, how do we how do we make a movie that people are gonna want? How do we do something other than the gritty, you know born action stuff like this? Like we got to do a fairy tale We just got to do a fairy tale. We're gonna do a campsite fire. We're gonna have this little fairy tale So I started looking up all these Russian fairy tales Like we need a cool name, okay, Bobby Yaga, it's a witch don't worry no one will ever know no one will ever see the movie It's not the guy it's the guy you send a kill the boogie man, okay Yeah work this out, but it was like just building like I'm fascinated by mythology So if you can build your own myth, that's what we're just trying to do. Like we're trying to be a little ridiculous That's why we use the color Instead of just noir black and white we tried to do like neon noir We had Jonathan Sela and then Dan Lawson and the cinematographers on it and to try and take it and give visual cues to the audience It like this isn't real. It's a fairy tale right and I'm bored with it. That's why I see the color differentiation Right when the cop knocks on the door and you say you're working. Yeah, just switch colors and we're like, okay Hopefully people will get that we're now in a fantasy. Well, it's It just seemed it was it was realistic but not yeah and just I need one anchor You always need one anchor one of my buddies called me up and the he goes have you seen John Wick? I go. No, is it good to go dude? When you get that dude you're gonna fucking love it and then I and then I saw it I'm pretty sure I saw it in the film in the movie theater and I mean right away. I was like, holy shit. This is my kind of movie. I mean, this is so much fun It's uh, right. It's everyone's kind of an odison like, you know, we all I'm probably the same Generation we grew up with like Steve McQueen Roncen sure, you know a little bit. We're like not a lot of dialogue but like yeah, he's in that. Oh my god Fucking in it the fucking we just played the bullets scene the other day. I mean that car scene no music No, just no all car just cars just car. Just car. And that's the real that's a that's what the 68 months I'm just all car 68 fastback. Yeah carrying that scene. Yeah, yeah Have you seen the revology 68 Mustang? No revology makes they make a replica of the bullet But it's with this sick suspension with a 460 horsepower Coyote engine and it's lightweight. So it's like 600 pounds less than a real Mustang GT from today Yeah, you'd be able to throw that around. Oh my god. It's it's it's an incredible car. Yeah, he makes us check that out That's awesome. Pull it up. I'll show you this is this is what he makes look at that That's his car. I mean and it's you know fucking zero to 60 in four seconds You know see you can get a six-speed or a manual and the fucking car Screams, it's such a fun car This guy's Tom Scarpello. He used to work for Ford He used to be in there the program to make the Ford GT and so he built this car Assemblies to get this help, but he doesn't it's it's what he does is incredible because he's essentially Done it like a production car, but it's a brand new 1968 and it's done but it's not just the bullet car. He does the 67 GT 500 67 GT 350 It's fucking awesome. Well, that's what I mean Again for all your listeners, you're the one that you know the one that told us to use the 70-1 barracuda I'm so excited when I saw it in the previews. I was like yes No with context I bump into you for the first time up at Taren's place Yeah, you know we got the handshake. Hey, you know how you doing? Yeah, and it was uh, Joe writes me going Love the movies where the fuck are the muscle cars? I was like, yeah, sorry. I'm like, okay. We'll put one for the fourth one. He's like you better So we go into production and we're sitting I'm literally sitting in Berlin going I am fucking looking for cars We're over in Europe. I'm gonna find a fucking muscle car. Joe Robins gonna fucking hate me Like how do I do this? I text you I'm like what what's the perfect car? He's like 71 barracuda Don't go with any pussy 69 Yeah, you don't want to get the Early barracudas you want 70 and 71 those are the years That's why you send me that picture and that's the exact car. It's the exact one with the fins. That's it. That's it I mean come on that it's We ripped that thing apart like we had a Tanner Faust like one of the best drift. I love that guy Tanner's awesome. He's awesome So he's helped us out on a lot of the John Wick so we brought him into my son Quinn or Scott Rogers and Steve don't leave he brought him into T.C. Conner to do all the 240 and the The 360 drifts and all and stuff so he gets right in there They just put the new suspension in put put the fucking insane engine in this thing and they had can do on these fucking circular drifts Literally like in two weeks it hurts so bad watching you guys smash it up I know all of them the 69 Mustang and John Wick to destroy Oh Well, we destroyed it probably a few more than we should have on this one. We did. Yeah. Yeah, you got to break a few eggs Well, it worked. I mean, I mean how many people went out and bought 69 Mustangs and 70 Chevelle's after that I actually really enjoyed this the Chevelle Like the Chevelle as much as I did I fucking I have one I have one just like that Yeah, mine's not green but yours didn't look green I had that like matrix green then looked a very dark Yeah, but in dark the way you film everything so dark and moody. It's got that look black. Yeah I really I I know I'm supposed to say the Mustang but I really like the Chevelle I'm a Chevelle guy. Yeah, I like I love the Mustangs too. I mean, I'm a muscle car head. I love them Yeah, so it's fun that the guys in Europe when you go shopping around It's almost you'll find a I know there's a lot of people here But we thought we're gonna have a big problem looking for all the different muscle cars and you're like there are amazing collectors over there Really love them like warehouses full of it makes sense because a lot of Americans collect European cars Yeah, yeah, there's the 16th the 70 rather 70 Chevelle in for the continental That was kind of on a good move too. We wanted something else and we ended up getting this and we're like, oh my god Yeah, you just saw when that's the car. Yeah, that's the car. Yeah, we were trying to make a choice and counting Well, it's you know, it's it's in the Mount Everest of the muscle car classics Yeah, I mean especially the 70 Chevelle's weird because like the old ones are not a 68 and 69 are cool They're really cool 70s the motherfucker though and then 71 they go to like this goofy single headlight thing. It doesn't look right 72 looks like shit soft fucked with the rear tail lights and well, I think that's what we were really trying to He kind of summed it up right there for like the John Wicks. They're like it we Kind of we did it as a goof. We thought we'd never direct again. We're like can I was like, yeah Let's just do an action movie for us, you know, whatever we're thinking no one's ever gonna see it Like we'll just keep for a second. You need jobs We're like we just made we got this big white board and we went in we wrote down Okay, everybody take a marker right down the ten things you fucking hate about action movies And then go write the ten things you love about action is that you'd want to see like muscle cars gun food We're like martial arts. We're like, you know, like suits. We want like one bring a little class back Like what do we bond what do you love about mission? Impossible what's what's Cruz doing? What's you know, Daniel Craig doing what's you know, Matt doing in Born like let's write down the stuff We love that makes this and then we're just gonna mix it up and through all the stuff like I have a museum fetish I have an art fetish. Obviously. I have a color fetish. Yeah, I have a dog fetish obviously Like making something about a dog We had attack dogs on the first one, but I just didn't fit so I could move that over to number three when we have more Yeah, and it's just like okay. What's what's all the fun stuff that you want to see in action movies and None of the structures we had in any of the scripts fit for it. So we're just like, okay We'll go back to Odysseus and like the Iliad or the Odyssey and we'll go. Okay, this guy just wants to get home He just wants to grieve and we're gonna throw as many rocks at him as we can On the way and see if we can make obstruction and we'll just have Keanu do an endurance race That's kind of how we did it and just threw in everything else we love well It's gotta be one of the most wild pulse pounding movies ever Because like the scene I did this thing with my friends. We do that every year. We do this sober October thing and One year we did a fitness challenge and we're the my friends Ari Shafir Bert Kreischer and Tom Segura and me and Bert Kreischer talks so much shit and the fitness challenge was we all had to wear these heart monitors and it's this thing called my zones and you You have to keep your heart rate at 80% you it's like One point per minute at 90 percent. It's like two points per minute. And so it's like it's amount of points per day right and I watch John Wick 50 times in a row and I did no, I'm not bullshitting man I watched the scene from the the bathhouse scene 50 times in a row I did seven hours of cardio and I did it just to try to break Bert because he was talking so much shit And so like a normal score for a day a guy would get like 400 or 300. I got 1150 for the day and I put it up the just because I'm like I'm gonna kill you because he kept talking shit I go dude, I'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna I'm gonna drag you to hell I'm like you're not gonna be able to keep up I'm gonna I'm gonna push myself to the point where I'm almost dead and I'm gonna kill you There's probably there's probably a study in that visual stimuli. Yeah to heart rate and adrenaline So I'm on an elliptical machine watching that scene with a remote control just on just Rewinding it going back rewinding it that fucking just buddy That's John Wick and then you go through that and you just killing in the house get to the red circle bar assassinations left and right It's so that just carried me through the whole sober October month. That's a psychosomatic study I probably watch that movie a hundred times. I'm not bullshitting. That's crazy I watch it whenever I'm bored in the gym. I just throw it on that that's cool Yeah, that's cool that you can watch it over and over. It's a fucking great get you pumped up movie. It's uh It was fun to make but we didn't honestly we didn't know we were doing did you have any idea would be so huge though I when it was done though you had to know you nailed it. No, we got we got weird comments back We got like too many headshots cut out all the headshots We got you can't kill the kid Alfion and you can't kill the puppy. Somebody's got to live That you know, we were independent So everyone was scared that we weren't getting it picked up because we've been we went when we shopped it we went to Think four or five studios and we didn't we didn't even finish the pitch They're like, no, we're cool. Thank you. Really? Yeah, we didn't we didn't get bought so we made the thing independently with Thunder Road with bows ionic and Erica Lee And it wasn't till we came out here actually to fantastic fest like no was buying the movie So that was other straight. Let's go. We'll show it event. Fantastic fest. See if anybody will clap So me Dave and Keanu sneak in real low-key We're gonna do a little surprise thing at that and can I'll do his little you know wave to the crowd You You And I'll do his little you know wave to the crowd and the crowd goes fucking mental like mental and like the first family and Friends we had everyone that was really quiet after like no applause. It was just really quiet. Really? Yeah, why? I just think at the time you were in the fast-cut shaky cam and it was you know, the the Just it was so ludicrous that he's gonna kill 68 or 86 people over a puppy and You gotta remember this is how we pitch it right so like we'll go to a student go, okay So we got this kid got Keanu Reeves, right? I know we're first time stunk eyes, but it's an action movie, right? it's like okay and And we can he's gonna shoot all this stuff and so his wife dies natural causes like yeah. Yeah. Yeah the bad guys don't kill it like no But they kill his puppy I'm like, yeah, and he kills all the people because the puppy but not the what like they're like what happens next I'm like, no, that's it the next 45 minutes are like just you know rampage and Yeah, yeah, no, we didn't we didn't sell it So they must be kicking themselves now, yeah, well Lionsgate bought us internet Ashley and then they sold us domestic and since then, you know, we've gone through a couple regime change at Lionsgate But now like the last one was really cool like everyone's on board like Joe Drake Nathan Kehane Matt Leonetti You know Adam Fochelson everybody that's part of the you know, they really pushed this last one they they knew John Wick was cool. They loved the third one and they got on board but for the first First round it we had once we sold the movie came out before he even came out There was like this lag they bought it and then there's like six months before we hit theaters I think Dave went off and did Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 9 or whatever it was I went off and did that the Grimmsby brothers or brothers Grimmsby Stachi Baron Cohen movie second unit town in South Africa for like five months cuz I was broke It was pretty funny. Yeah, we thought we'd never direct it again. So we're like we better go find some stunt jobs And then it worked out and then Like not even a month after it opened Kehane had called up and go hey, they called me about doing number two, but I'll only do it with with you guys as you In and I was like, are you kidding? Yes, we're in whatever it is It was completely nutty man, yeah and number two just picks up right we're number one left off Yeah, and we just like okay and right off the jump like opening scene. Yeah, we had no idea what to do I was like trying to figure out ideas for that We're like, you know, it's like the the disaster deprivation tank It was just going to a room and not not leave to we came up with an idea So you decided just the hunt for his car. Yeah Well, you know, it's it was my we might now partner Alex young we were doing a second unit gig you would do an agent 47 The second one whatever that was called. I think was aging for seven Right in Berlin and we're sitting there and we had got the call to okay We got to come with an idea and I partner at the time or my partner now Alex young was sitting there and he's like you got to get the car back man. He lost his fucking car I'm like no one's gonna care about the car. I'm like, dude He's like he's like he fucking total loves muscle cars like you got to put the car every guy he kills He's gonna get a piece of the car back. He's getting his fucking car back. I'm like, that's a great opening He's gonna get the car back. Yeah No when he sits in the car and he's like touching the stairs Just you can tell it's like keys, but that's Keanu like Keanu bring like that's not just John. That's Keanu Keanu loves cars. He loves bikes. He loves the discipline of it. He loves like that's why he's got arch motorcycles, right? Mmm, if you ever get a chance, you should check that shop out. It it's the most pristine. I'm sure I can't fuck with motorcycles I'm scared of them. Yeah, but to build just to watch how he's got all the water cutters here. It's very it's a very artistic The bikes and bikes are incredible great, but he brings that to every like he just he's very Not compulsory. He's very he loves the art of things. Yeah, he loves the art of it He like he's fascinated by like who makes his cup Joe Like how do you like he everything he just fascinated over he wants a story on He's one of the most curious most I guess curious Artistically like how things are done who people are. He's just got a genuine curiosity and love for things He's a very unique guy. I think so. I've never met him, but it's just every interview you see with him every movie He's a very unusual person. Yeah, and he's got you know, I think I think anybody Really artistic or at least the really I think artistic people that I've met they maintain that little Bit of and I mean this in the in the best of ways a little bit of childness wonder. Mmm They still kids a little bit like I could talk to you all All day about like archery. I could talk to you all day about Mars I talked to you all day about motorcycle Talk to you all day about movies and I think that's you got to have that you need that little inspiration I think you need that little bit of of of wonder Wonder lust into into certain things and I think he still got that like he he will still he'll see a sequence We'll come in with the nam chucks and do something and he'll start giggling He's like you want me to do that. He's like, okay, that's pretty cool And he just goes from totally serious guy to okay. Now, how do I learn how to do know? He just everything you need to know about nam check. He wants to know about nam checks He just throws himself into it. So how much time did he have to train martial arts before John Wick 1? Oh God it wasn't that He was coming out of a couple films so he hadn't been Like he wasn't in fight shape and that was so, you know, you know, it's just like you can't just jump back in So we gave him like I think three to five weeks With some of the trainers we found to get into shape to get into shape You know cut weight got himself back in stretched, you know kind of got back into where he was on the matrix And then we stuck him with the the fight teams and the stunt guys. I think we had him within three months That was probably the shortest one we did that was about three months to get him into that shape and teach him all the You know the Aikido stuff and the Aikijitsu well You need so there's so much going on those movies physically that you need to be proficient in Yeah, the gun stuff the the throws Jiu-jitsu striking everything the jiu-jitsu was the new thing for him probably not the most physically demanding But you know it is we used to use your hands and feet I mean, I'm sure you remember the first time you transition jitsu. It's like it looks easy, but yeah Yeah, completely it's an eye opener. Yeah, it really is and only even recently for me I'm starting to feel like oh I can move I like it feels just as good to be on my back as my butt But I think we took a lot of inspiration from dance. I got you know Most of what we do is dance. They're based on dance drills. They're not based on martial art drills They look like martial arts we kick punch, but we don't train the actors in Thai pads or focus myths or heavy bag We'll do maybe a little of that for impact stuff But it's mostly about memory because if a guy can punch kick that's great, but if you can't remember five moves You know much good right and it's more you know martial arts is action reaction or causing the guy to be off-balance All our guys are trained to to keep him on balance to make it look crazy, but they got to dance with him So it's about that metronome Keep the beat going so when we trained him he hadn't been trained that way before it's more like memorize I memorizing You know a few moves hitting some But we realized we had no money and we had no time and every time you do punches and kicks you see in most movies Right like they're on you right over my shoulder Then you know you take the hit and it goes over your shoulder so I can sell the hit So you're always doing these reverses so I do a big wide shot profile you throw in a nice roundhouse kick I got a cut somewhere to show the impact unless you're really kicking me which not advisable most of the time So all every time the more punching and kicking striking you do or if Kano's not doing the motion I got a cut more and every time I cut it's a setup. It's it's it's just time-consuming not that it's bad or good It's just time-consuming we knew we weren't gonna have that so we're like fuck. What do we do? Okay? Well, we're just gonna grab you We're just gonna make it all grappling and like is that gonna look you know remember? It's all during the born so everything's gonna look very slow You know compared to what it was, but we're gonna do all great We're gonna do I get oh I get you see over and you get you that's it That's all you get and if you get a punch it'll be a contact hit that's all we're gonna do no punches No kicks no nothing, and we'll do it all in one take Hmm, and we're all like yeah sounds good No, no yeah, we thought it was a complete disaster after the first two days of shooting the fight scenes We're like this is gonna suck. We're fucked Why did you think that though? I think it was everyone's mindset like we did out of necessity We thought it was cool, but like you'd see people that where's the key like you know? Some sometimes you look at well. He's doing the same throw over it I mean Ipan say an Augie looks the same but for us the different grips the different throw it all looks different to me Like I'm a throw you know I love judo porn. I could watch a million different throws. It's awesome For some people it all looks the same they want to see the cool jump spin hook kick or something like that But then we put in the close quarter stuff and when you're seeing it remember We don't have the muzzle flashes on we don't have the blood splatters We're just kind of seeing you know looks like they're dancing right and then you put in the sound effects And you put in the muzzle and then you put in the fucking relay and like now it's making sense So what do you when when he's shooting in the actual filming is he just pulling the trigger? And it's just going click well see that's the thing you have dummy rounds when you when you most movies always see a to b Cutting right I'm on you. You're the guy like guns in the camera You fire the blank most firearms up to very recently fire blanks and for the people out there a blank is around Without the actual bullet the lead piece that hits, but a blank still has a gunpowder charge in it say Maybe you know even if it's only 50 grams of black powder But at a range of 10 to 15 feet that'll still that can kill you yeah concussive force That's when you hear about all the accidents that have happened with blanks over the years like you can't put a blank under your head And pull the trigger it can't right right So we wanted all this close quarter shooting like we wanted to put the muzzle and do all this stuff close quarter contact stuff So we you know we went to our VFX guys and the trick is not so much the muzzle flash It's a lighting interaction especially at night, and it's cycling the automatic Yeah getting it in and having the casing ejection all do but it can add up with visual effects costs So we went and we found the armors and you know through Taren and the other the technologies that we found Through the armors we made a plug gun a plug gun is a gun that has a almost a steel rod inside the barrel And it kicks the gas a different way, so we still have an ejection, but nothing no energy no flash No padding and wanting comes out the barrel like you know you couldn't put a live round it and if you tried So is it a lower round a lower level? There in England they use some that are like almost air-contained. I can do it in us It's a very very small charge of black powder, so it's a very very We call them plug guns. They're very very limited in the drainage So it's just enough to cycle around enough to cycle it and nothing yeah Exacting but nothing comes out the barrel so all that stuff you see the blood splatter That's all CGI the blood is all CG There's one or two instances where it's not but most of the blood is the blood so good nowadays digitally that it saves so much Time so we have to change the wardrobe we get it I mean like you know you see like a Tarantino like in Django Tarantino still uses old-school blood packs Which I'm old-school. I fucking love that I think it's amazing, but we're just the time and you know you like you see a John Wick movie It's like you know the reset on 20-star case taking hits that went it It'd be a three-hour reset to change the wardrobe right and head shots You'd have to put a special head pack on with a wig and all that stuff So we do we do the the blood hits digitally the muzzle flashes We actually shoot against a green screen And we'll call them elements and then we'll plug actual muzzle flashes back into the movie later on So they're not digital per se, but they are comped in or in a composition And that's how we get the cool lighting effect and keep the cool muzzle flashes How long did it take you to film that red circle bar scene? I think less than four days really yeah, we weren't really feeling can always he had the flu He had like a hundred and three degree fever. He was going down. It was it was a rough day It was freezing cold, New York. He had the flu Super high temperature, and we were just flying through it like literally two three takes move on to three tables filming it with the flu Wow, yeah, he's a trooper man. He's wow That's incredible. Yeah, he's a tough fucker. What actors have a fucking earache. They'll call it quits for the day. Ah Yeah, yeah No comment no comment But like most of the people we work with are they get it and then we try to be smart to look if we if there's Another way if we could have shut down and let them we just it was like one of those We either got a stop or we don't but we only get one shot and you couldn't afford account as that guy, too You can't you can't make him where did you film that I was on New York City, but the red circle It was in this little it was up in the theater district. I forget the name of it It was a shutdown little club that we just kind of opened back up And put her own their own lighting rig in there and just kind of lit it up I mean if you had seen it in the daytime, it was all like that shit brown leather It looked like you're walking to her like, you know big boys Then it looked really bad that gives credit to John Sela the cinema tiger on the first one we went in Put our lighting grid up flashed a lot of big screen on lights Put the extras in funny colors and you know, we ran out of money So we're like we didn't we didn't know how to put the the bad guys in some sort of like, okay What would Star Trek do and Star Trek we always call them the red shirts You know the guys in Star Trek that right always getting killed you have to do was wonder if their Kirk was transported down To the planet with the red shirt guy that guy was gone So we put all our bad guys in the red shirts. They were just gonna kill them all. I think we had a deal There's a local like one of the garment district things you geek I think we got all those red shirts for like ten bucks. It's like a whole deal Oh all the stunt guys red shirts, but yeah, we did it all in this shitty little club in like four days Maybe four and a half days something and this has got to be very stressful for you to be first-time director Doing all this and then so much pressure and also it's not picked up by anybody it You know, it's weird. I guess when you're in it You're just trying to just go into that motive don't suck like you don't have to win You just can't lose just finish get the day do your thing My partner Dave leach at the time like, you know, we both were so we just love being on set. So I think we just It was kind of straight, you know You come from the action you say all these guys can do action and you can do that But hmm when you're trying to put the storytelling in you're trying to do that I mean, you might get other guys you'll talk to or guys who come from the stunt world and say yeah It's just like doing it's for me. It was nothing like second unit completely different It had that different kind of pressure but like I guess You see how things come together more, you know, you just do the action you're worried about just making it look cool You're trying to do something like yes. Yeah counter reef you have Ian McShane. Yeah, well, I'm to foe Lance Rettick and you're kind of going Who was the badass Russian guy that Keanu gets in a fight with and the guy throws him off the no, that's Dan That's Daniel Bernhardt. That's a good friend. He was the star of blood sport 2 and blood sport 3 pull that one No kidding. Yeah after von Dom Daniel was this he's a Swiss actor. You can't that's Daniel Bernhardt. He's very good He's awesome. He's a good good good close friend But I had worked with him He had hired me at his stunt guy when he was the lead actor in blood sport to blood sport 3 And blood sport 4 or 5 I don't know they go on forever Right, but uh when it's time to do this we called in every favor we had and you know like that whole lower budget that's how we got Scott Atkinson mark to cost us and Gary Daniels and Daniel Burna all these mark was the roar all these great, you know up and coming action My friend Tate Fletcher was in it to Tate. Yeah Tate was with the beard. We saw it's awesome Like he had that beard and we're like, what are we doing? Oh, we got a choreographer the beard We slam down to shoot him in the head Tate's awesome. Yeah, I'm Tate forever. He's great guy He's awesome. Good. And he's he's a really good actor. He's got the eyes like he can pump those eyes out He's fantastic, but you look for those guys, right you put him in the cool spot. Yeah, but this fuck This whole scene is just so fun It's such a crazy scene That's a real beard there by the way. That's his real beard. He's awesome No, yeah, no super fun I mean, that's always the trick but like if you get the the people you like around you They kind of give you a hint so we had a lot of we called in a lot of favors and a lot of friends and you know They all know it's your first time like the crew and the cast like Ian McShane or everybody kind of knew Keanu had gone out Keanu had one day off On John Wick one and you know, New York City base camp is like blocks away from the set. So me and my partner Dave leech It's Ian McShane's first day on set. So it's like four in the morning. We're gonna walk over to his trailer introduce ourselves Say hi. How you doing? I mean, it's kind of a big deal for us Keanu sitting outside his trailer at like 4 30 in the morning is one day off. I'm like, what are you doing here? He's like I just thought he'd come in early and talked to Ian and you know warm up for you a little bit And we're like that's what kind of guy is so he kind of greased the wheels for us He walks in and you know, Ian's like so here at your first movie Don't worry, we'll get you through it you know everybody was so cool because we just kind of admitted we didn't know what we're doing and we wanted to learn and And get our thing going how difficult does it to take the dailies and then edit it down to a film like the editing process You know to put the assembly together to actually just put clips together. It's It's not that hard. I mean good bad, you know, we could take a couple shots at it It's to and you don't know this until you try it a couple times It's like where's the actual like how much can you take away? It's like chipping away at the at the statue, right? It's not adding things. It's taking away things to really shine what's good, you know Lose some of the good to get to the great So you don't want to cut your action You don't want to cut any scenes But then you watch the movie as a whole and this is what I'd say to any other editor directors out there that are just getting started If you just edit a scene or you just edit a sequence So you just edit like an act and then watch it go. I got it. I got it You still haven't got it because there's this thing we've all felt it in movies about pacing, right? There's a way a three-hour movie can feel like two hours is a way a one-hour movie can feel like three hours It's all about the pacing, right? So what what I learned from it is you got to sit and every time you make when you're in that place We can just make these one minute or two minute changes You got to take the time to sit back and watch the whole thing. No pee breaks No, that's and that's what we did on wick for a lot of us like everyone kept telling me it's too long So I know but let's just watch it and my editorial would hate me because like twice a week We're like everybody's watching it Mmm, you know Like we're watching this and you'd have to sit and get through the two and a half hours of it And that's the only way you know, and then you're like still we're not there. This is too fast But is it hard to? When you're in the middle of it, is it hard to see it? Yeah, because you've seen it so many times is it hard to see it the way another person is gonna see it. It's like It's like knowing you're lost but also not being nervous by it It's being lost in a good way because you can feel it right you can feel there's something cool there And you can feel like I just go back to being an audience member. What do I wish I had seen this? Sorry, that's okay You know, you're trying to trying to figure it out, right and that's that's the exciting part. You know, there's something tingly there You know, there's something good. But what is it? It's kind of you can't be afraid to try because now digitally we can go back and forth and have 20 versions of the movie Like it's not like the old days. We write film and glue it So we would always make a new we try I've always had good editors I've always had young hungry great great editors that wanted to experiment and you they swing big So let's just can we do this movie an hour in 20 minutes and they'll do a version of it Can we do this out? Can we do this in hour 45? What's the version of it and you'll start to see things that you obviously hate but you also see Choices that you could make to tighten things up It's and I'm sure everybody you talk to will have a different process but like I think it's both terrifying and exciting and Again, it's hard to explain you can feel like you're on the right path Even though you don't know it does that make sense? Mm-hmm And you just have to keep trying till you watch it in the room with the sound and you're like, that's it That's the movie I did you bring in people that hadn't seen it before. Yeah, just watch them. Yeah I'm a big fan of like friends and family stuff and like you at first you're gonna your ego may not be ready Cuz like everybody likes something else. Everybody thinks something should be cut Everybody thinks it's too much blood or not enough blood. I literally in the same day. I've had some of our you know some of our You know female friends came in and wanted more action and summer guy friends were like we want less action Like you just couldn't tell what people wanted But you listen to what they all love and that was the cool thing. They all love Keanu. They all cried when the puppy died You know, they they all They all felt it was something they hadn't really seen before it was action in a different way They liked the mythology part of it. They liked the color. They liked the sound they thought I was all very well-made I mean whether you like it or not, you know, like the crew was really good, you know that kind of thing And that's that's what sticks with you. But like I now I I'll show my movie there I love showing it because I love you I like it I get some of the most insane comments and it's it's pretty funny like even the reviews like Keanu and I have this little thing like You know, so I know I've talked to some director friends that don't don't read reviews We read like everyone like masochistic about it, you know We're like everything on Rotten Tomatoes or Honest Trailers or everything wrong with or like, you know The what a critical drinker all these great guys on YouTube or just fucking hair Shit and we're kind of laughing cuz I okay fair game that we're right But You don't know because it's not you anymore, right? Yeah, and that's just kind of what we try to do Yeah, that becomes a real problem with people that pay too much attention to criticisms or comments Well, I you can get lost in the middle of I was actually just talking to a friend the other night But he said he thinks about negative comments while he's writing his jokes I don't yeah, I don't know if that's productive in the right way I think it's okay to be aware of it. Yeah, I certainly wouldn't wanna I don't want to sit down and write a movie base Well, hey, you know, how many sequels have you seen where they bring back the same cast over and over again Mm-hmm or the same jokes or the same gag or the same because they think it works Right. You better not fuck with it. Right? Okay, that's great in a lot of businesses, but in entertainment I don't think that's gonna push or move the needle right when we need to do it I think we got to take chances, right? Otherwise, what are we doing? Well, you've created one of the interesting things about the whole wick franchise is that you've created this universe this universe of the continental this universe of all these different rules that this group of assassins has and Now you have this opportunity with that to do so many other things because you have like a there's a whole world We have tea for you there if you want it. Oh, thanks Um, I I guess that's you know, we created the world based on stuff that we had done, you know being a stunt guy You travel on you live in hotels all the time. Thanks. Yeah, wouldn't be cool if the concierge gave you a firearm That'd be great, you know, or if they had a gun range downstairs instead of a gym, that'd be fantastic But it's also like I mean again if you made your list of the top ten things you wanted to see in movies You know, you'd have dogs ninjas muscle cars guns archery You know sword fight, you know And then you made a list of the top ten people you'd want to see I want to see Donnie Yen fight Steve McQueen Do Bruce Lee on Schwarzenegger? Yeah, you know We just tried to create a franchise where we could put all that stuff in and no one would call us on it because there's no I mean, you know, we've been called for the superhero movies and all the other stuff which are all interesting and I'm a big fan I just don't think that's what I'd be good at right, you know I think a little crazier mindset of what's not being done Let's how do we get that in like, you know the old show kasooji movies, you know Enter the ninja or something like that or Chuck Norris's invasion USA Like, you know things that were kind of so nutty and wacky, but like, you know, they hit a cord so how do we bring that back and just a and I don't want to say a cool way but like a more modern or technically More developed way. Yeah, that's why we spend so much time on the look of the John Wicks Like we want people to take the action like look we're trying to do a good job here We're not just trying to phone it in but the same time we do want to be a little crazy Like like I mean how many dog bites to the crotch that I do You know how long it takes a train built in balance to bite a crotch Doesn't take a lot actually about a day It's a smart it takes a stunt guy a lot longer to get used to being fit in the crotch What do you do to pad their crotch you give them like a we have these cool little Kevlar suits. It's funny, right? Andrew our dog trainer when I first told he's got it trains all the Wolves for Game of Thrones. That's how I So I called him said like I have dogs myself and you know, you know, you play with the dog Ball and you can you have the little tug-of-war fight with him. I was like, I want to do that How do I do that? Because like I don't know if people will see that when you normally up until very recently if you see a dog attack at a movie That's a dog attacking a human the dog doesn't know it's a fucking movie The dog just attacked the dog is literally trying to hurt that person on camera It's not good for the dog. It's not good for the person those professional animal trainers wearing a bite suit that you know Fucking Kevlar pad you seen him. It's both use but like a suit of armor the dog just goes to kill him We didn't think that was such a brilliant idea in the way we wanted to do things So it's like there's got to be another way to train dogs as I can train my dogs just to wrestle with me so What we do is we take these Long cylindrical pads bite pads that are painted green screen green Right and their velcro on one side with a rip cord like the parachute rip cord So they're laced on to the the either the forearm the crotch the leg the calf wherever we want the dog to bite And the dogs been trained to attack green so you can't you can't wear green on set So we've got the dog trained to attack these green bite pads and The dogs that's why we go out Andrew finds the the Belgians that seem to have the most promise and They're trained to wrestle. They're not trained to attack. They're not trained to kill or to bite the Sun They're trained to wrestle to have fun. So the dogs think it's now fun So we're training them, you know when usually when a dog wrestles with you over bone, you know down boy down We've encouraged it. So the dog is actually having fun. So it's not mentally traumatic on the animal I don't know what this night so it's fun So the stunt guys go in they go in for their martial art training and their physical training piano and whoever else we're working With and for an hour and a half a day each stunt guy that work with the animal has to go in because the dog has To recognize you has to smell you as to get used to them the camera guys everybody that's around dogs has to go play basically just an hour of play so the stunt guys go in put the gear on and they wrestle with the dog for the hour and then the dog gets used to them and we put the Wherever it's got to go and then we have these really cool sleeves that have a little bit of a bite-proof Ethafoam in it covered with a really soft pad. So the dog doesn't hurt his teeth. Mm-hmm And the dog would want to bite and Belgians once they clamp that's why they call them like malleggators Once they bite they don't let go So we had to figure a way to get them off when we yell cut because they're so angst about getting the getting the temp So you have the rip cord going so we yell cut the stunt guy would pull the rip cord the pad would release the dog Would hold the pad walk away with it and just hold on to it for the next five minutes Till you got tired and just go drop the pad So we had five Belgians and then we just wrote to every take was a new dog Because the other one had to let the pad go and what did Halle Berry have to do how much well We figured since just like we did with Shimmer Anderson this one You can't have that because we're so we shoot so wide we couldn't have a trainer, you know Dried behind the couch on the dog. So we just and her and I talked about well, it's just We'll just raise the dogs for the next six months with the cast So Halle for like I think it was almost eight and a half months actually How he would come in and she learned to train him. She'd carry the little treats and so they listened the two Belgians that were her number three There's actually four of them but the two that were always on camera there like she literally trained from scratch No, okay, so they have bait like they were like her dogs Wow, and they listened to every word she said like she gets a snapper and they'd be like boom But it got it got it got crazy to the point where that's Andrew back there for that. Yeah I mean if you came over to to Halle You know and the dogs are there they'd give you the eye like you. What are you doing next to my master? Yeah, they're intense dogs. They're so brilliant, but they look at you. They sort things out. Yeah team guys call meat missiles They fly Like we've played so many videos of Belgium Malawas running up hills Oh my god, just jumping over walls and like they literally can fly through the air Really one of the Belgians that ran up the wall in that movie. That was like a 13 and a half foot thing Yeah, it's insane. They're such athletes and the funny thing they're not they're not huge But it is a real 65 to 75 pound animal Yeah I think the funniest thing when we're bringing in a new stunt team and we've got the like Before we even do anything you line them up and you let the dogs go in and everyone says they're good with dogs Or I'm a dog person until you see that You see the dog attack on camera if you were to turn that camera around what you see our two trainers holding this dog back And the thing is like I just ready to go and it's a whole nother level of animal behavior Yeah, you can see who gets a little shaky. Yeah, it was comfortable Dave Camarillo who we were talking about earlier Who trained Keanu for the judo and the jiu-jitsu in number four? I think he did over a hundred dog hits You just he bought hit for whatever reason Crazy Dave and the dogs bonded and they were both they they spoke the same language. They loved they loved him So whenever we needed a dog hit it's Dave Because he's so I don't know if you like he's so calm Yeah, and the dogs vibe on that and even when they're going they just they just yeah go play with Dave and David I think he had done so many by the end of the movie County I'm a special t-shirt of just like 109 dog hits or something. It's crazy But like the surprise is the first time you see this stuntman Get hit by the dog is it you know, it doesn't look that big until 75 pounds hit you at 20 miles It sits them down and they all get up with the same eyes. But what just happened? Yeah, it's pretty impressive I think we use those on fear factor. Really people. Yeah, but unfortunately we found that they're too light So like with really heavy people were really strong people well They'd get bit and they could carry the dog. Yeah, ran. Yeah, and so then we moved to mastiffs which are not small We had this animal called a Regency mastiff. That's part pit bull part Neapolitan and this guy had bred them Specifically so they don't show any animal aggression and when they bite it's just it's horrific They're 150 160 pounds exactly right and they're just built like an athlete What do they have to do just attack them and then they had a walk with them? Yeah well the people they with the Mastiffs there was a room and they had to enter into the room. They had to Perform a very specific task. I don't remember what it was but as soon as they get into the room, they're wearing a bite suit and Nobody got passed now the dog's name is curly The dog they use the dog for the original one of the Hulk movies the one with Eric Bana Those were the dogs they modeled it and when Nick Nolte that's it right there See the original dog though. See if they could find their original dog The original dog is this just Google Regency mastiff. See if you can find that Yeah, see if there's any images So those are the dogs in the Hulk but the actual yeah, that's what they looked like They look like giant pit bulls. Yeah, they have the jaw that goes out to you But they're so sweet like really calm. I actually had one of their dogs. I had a curly son His name is Johnny cash Yeah, he he lived a long time. He lived like 13 years, which is really old for a mastiff for a big dog Yeah, but um, yeah So the the Malmoise they were just a little too light because like with the bite suit on it hurts But it's 65 pounds. You can run with 65 pounds. It's like a suit of our yeah for sure unless there's two or three of them So how long what did Halle Berry have to train for that move because she had so many physical first of all, she's awesome She's so good in that movie. She's so believable and she's so like physically adept like I had no idea she could move like that No, I think she and she came to she can't I didn't written the script yet You know, I just got a call from WME and my agent saying hey, would you like to meet Halle Berry? Yes, yes, of course Yeah, huge fan I think she was down either that day or the next day just banging on my door Right and I'm like, okay open it up. She's like she just walks in jeans and a t-shirt goes. Hi, I'm Halle It's like yes. I know who you are. Of course. She's like It's I want to be in your movie Wow, it was that she was that straightforward. No bullshit. No, that's just I'm going to be in your movie And I'm like that's I'm flattered. Thank you. That's very cool of you. Um, we haven't even written it yet Yeah, no, that's why I'm here now. You're gonna write it She's yeah, she was right on and I'm like, okay Cool. Let me give it a think we'll figure out something and now I'm like, oh I gotta write something cool for Halle Berry But it's like I think a three or four months later It's like okay, you can come back in now. She's like that's awesome. It's great changes that this way Okay, I see it more like this. Okay, we're gonna do this. Oh de Casa Blanca. So I'm gonna be like Rick I got it. I'm gonna do this and She's like when I start training. I'm like, well, you know, technically we go into she's like no Just I'm gonna start training today. Just tell me what to do She was so on it just on I was like, okay Well first let's get you in shape tell your trainer. This is what we need to do We need you to stretch we need you to get all the other conditioning stuff in so we can start taking you in and We literally had to slow her down in the first week Like, you know if you haven't done shoulder rolls you haven't been thrown before if you haven't done stuff So she she just went crazy the first we couldn't kick her out of the gym. She's another Keanu just couldn't get She's like put her up at Terrans and like she just lived it just lived it up there and she'd go with Kiana She's like whenever can't goes I'm going so just make make room for me after that movie. Did she ever want to do it again? Yeah, we were actually been in talks several times to try and get I hate the term spin-off But they're trying to do other satellite projects off the wig franchise Which it's very flattering. Hopefully they'll be good ones. I don't believe John Wick is dead Is John dead or is John Wick dead we don't know we just don't know. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Yeah Because it was very ambiguous at the end of the movie supposed to be yeah, yeah, we'll see Yeah, see how can't win the director feeling three four years. You got to take him to that bar in Japan Exactly we're going in September. So like you talked to me again then it could be like John Wick five and a half I don't know you never know but uh, Hallie wants to do she's definitely still gave her like, you know when Hallie came I think to I think she she had just turned 50 or 51 I know I don't want to miss it but like she's in amazing shape. Yeah amazing She like I can't even tell you to see her in person. She looks 35 That's insane like insane Like litter well, she's so fit. I mean, that's that's the key Like never stop. This is one of the first couple weeks. She ever did anything with us Like she hadn't been doing anything at this point. That's it's so Corey raft, right? Oh, wow scissor takedowns Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, and she trained down at Terrence to I saw videos She's like one of those Yes, she's like, you know, they think on the deal like some people turn off to memorize a choreography They learn it so much that they can throw it away. It's like learning your lines, right? They learn their lines so so much they could just flow They spend so much time doing that because they know they want to add in their little details and stuff. They make it theirs It's pretty impressive to watch you almost feel lazy next to I'm like god. I need to work harder But it's cool when the crew sees it, you know Everybody you can always tell when you're on a good movie or if people don't give a shit and then the crew kind of doesn't Give a shit, but when you see the cat it starts with Keanu He guy never leaves set then you get him and Hallie and neither one want to leave set They don't want to miss a beat They don't want to miss a chance and then you got the rest of the cast and the rest of the crew Now the crew's like oh we got a it's just this constant inspiration thing. Mmm, and it's it's really it's pretty fun It's pretty cool. Now. There's Are you guys doing some sort of a television show? Yeah, well, I'm so there's there's coming out It was on on was it I think it's on Amazon now or whatever called the continental it's kind of a spin-off that was done Very separate from the world that we've created in the future world It's something that the studio had done a little on the side of us as we were going just to see what they could do With this continental series. It's kind of interesting it it it's not out yet. I think it comes out Yeah, end of the summer I think But there's not a job there's real no tie-in to the the giant the John Wick films But it does have a it has the continental in it It's like kind of like Ian McShane's backstory a little bit and how he got there a little disjointed from from the feature stuff But it's got just another I don't know. It's kind of a cool world. They built like that It was very on the side of us and then hopefully we'll be seeing another TV show That's really about the John Wick features the bar at the continental the secret assassins bar the door at the bar Yeah, I made a door like that. My club. Yeah, you could open up the thing to see who's coming through literally It's the same door when people go what the fuck is this door for the green room of the comedy club? And that they go that's the door from the continental. That's the Ours opens like a hinge, but yeah, it's the same same sort of that's pretty awesome It's pretty though. We've inspired the comedy green room. Yeah, like where people see they go What the fuck is up with this door? Like what do you expect again? No, no, no It's like this fucking real heavy steel door. There's something cool about that, right? Oh, it's real cool So someone get their fingers. Yeah Yeah, this is secret world like a thing But it is kind of like a secret world deal like you have to punch the code in to get into the door or you have A key fob, you know, that's kind of like subcultures have always interest me. There's always sub Rosa, right? Yeah, you know this the sub Rosa world of the the inside the whether it's comedians or stunt guys or cops or military There's always that in that in click and I think that's what fascinates a lot of people a lot of times because they don't want To be part of that little we're usually gonna name Some people give me shit because we called number three parabellum and then number four was like just done with four Yeah, we actually had a title for John Wick for it was called Hagakuri Japanese word that Lily meant like hidden leaves. It was a treatise on samurai code of ethics and It really spoke to it was kind of like the art of the way of dying Like how do you prepare yourself for a good death and a lot of it dealt with you can only relate to people a Warrior can only relate to a warrior You know whether you're on other sides or not a cop can only relate to a cop and like, you know Whatever a teacher can already to a teacher that inside sub Rosa thing that only each other knew each other And a thing we got it, but we didn't want to put it, you know a title on it We kind of lost it but I thought it was a really cool thing about being sub rose or being in the inside Yeah, maybe on the next one why'd you decide just it was like, you know, it was The the actual treatise it was from like 1646 or something like that Unfortunately, it had been used During World War two as a rallying cry For a militaristic Japan to get behind so in in some Asian markets Could be considered to be a problem and we didn't want to take a chance I it was yeah in China, Japan Korea. I'm like, okay, I get it We don't want to be sensitive to that, but we still thought it was a cool name. Yeah It's uh, it's what a weird world it is to make films and then have them be distributed worldwide It's because you know, it's like I'm sure you know, you're always gonna piss off somebody Yeah, you're always gonna get something or somebody can be something. So you just again I like doing the fantasy film kind of thing I like creating our own world to like doing that because it's ours and it's not taking a side. It's not really I don't have to adhere to history and I have to adhere to an IP and kind of just do our thing And I think that kind of freedom helps a lot You know, I don't think people get I Know it's bent out of shape sometimes on that because you're creating your own world. Do you feel like? There's enough there's room for another thing like this in your life Like is this something you're gonna try to do again like recreate an entire? ecosystem an entire world That's a good question. I I know again like we like we say it was Unintentional completely unintentional almost a fluke. We did one then we did say we didn't know and I didn't know anything about the Continental's worldwide or the markers or anything till the second one made that up Third one we're like, oh, let's call it the high table. Sure. Someone will buy that sure And we just keep you know kind of riffing on stuff to do and just use your imagination But it works it does and I think again and it works that it's each continental to that It's international like when he goes to Italy and he goes and gets suited right? Well that that was probably one of my favorite things. I love the suit I love that actor whoever that actor was that is explaining to him the guns and oh, what is it Peter? Serana fits. Yeah. Yeah, he was in a couple he was in The suits and the guns this whole scene that guy right there the the ball guy right? Yeah, that's Luca, Moscow That's actually my wardrobe supervisor. I couldn't cast somebody in time. So I made him do it Peter sonovitz This guy's fun. He's so fucking funny. Yeah, you just buy him as a complete psycho That's he literally flew in on the day learn the lines did the gig and flew out really? Yeah, he was awesome Wow, he's incredible. All right. What was that movie spy was statham? Oh, yeah He played the Italian spy that he was so funny. So the guy that's doing the wardrobe is your actual war Yeah, I couldn't I couldn't I kept sound like people come in and start reading I'm like just be like my guy here be like my work Okay, and we couldn't find anybody to be Luca here and Luca was so so I'm like fuck it And he never acted never acted before he's great he's fantastic he's great I got that like same in number four like the the the actress that plays Akira. That's Rina Samoyama She's a pop star from England, but she had never acted before either Wow. I just saw on her YouTube videos I was like she's got to be a lag like she's got so much presence and we just picked her up, too Sometimes you get really lucky and cool like that You know did was there ever a time while you were doing for where you like this is just too over the top Oh, yeah, like every fucking day like like the shotguns that spit fire we're like And you just got it like you know you're knee-deep in it, and you do have those moments of like yeah Let's go okay get that going in and you kind of like you have those quiet moments. You're like Like you watch the monitor and like you know you can feel everybody behind you and you can you can kind of get that vibe That you know most of your cue thinks you're crazy, and you're like yeah, yeah, let's spin the car one more time around This is so over the top And there's so much it's so Like I guess you kind of have to one up the movies before but you just like One up the one up the one up you just kept going I think if you could you I guess I didn't want it to make it feel like it was a mistake Or we're just trying to do the one-up thing like now. We're all in we're going all out You know I can't I have those talks. He's like did you jump the shark? Like yeah, let's jump to Charlotte. Just we'll just keep going because why fall down you know we're a Lot of my influences are often Buster Keaton or Harold Lloyd a lot of silent movie stuff and we're all made Oh, but you go back and watch the movies now and go back like the the documentary on Buster Keaton or Harold Lloyd go back And how did Buster Keaton do all that stuff? Yeah, I'm not we've watched some of those clips, and it's like how are you doing because there's no special effects I have been a part of so many great stunt teams and work with so many great stunt riggers and visual effects people There are still gags that he is back then that we're all kind of like yeah, it's a bit sketch man I like how I don't think you do a lot of what he do even do nowadays Cuz like look this is stuff I mean they're cranking the footage a little bit, but like that's him falling off a motorcycle Yeah, like he still don't make these are all great gags and like if you miss there's a penalty Well, how about the one when he grabs a hold the back of a train and he gets old the trolley like this right here This is like me. Yeah, this is going probably a little bit slower. Yeah, but you know what happens if you miss you're dead Yeah, there's fuck. There's no out. Yeah, and when he's got like watch this watch the shit. He's doing here Like I was even doing this is early wire work that you can't even tell It's wild But like every time he falls and does this stuff those are real fall like yeah Buried a mat in the in the like look at that dirt there, but he's still taking the hit Yeah, it's a big hit too. I mean that's a long I mean watch this watch this shit. He's gonna grab the dummy as it comes over the waterfall Like he's still got to do it Yeah, it's insane, you know like we'd be doing it with green screen double safeties We'd have wires on and we'd have a backup in there the stunt guy would do it a couple times and like, you know That's not tech 12 rope. That's a woman. That's not even a dummy. No, no Yeah, just throwing it right to the leg. Yeah, he just throws it to the ledge. There's so many of these like look at that I mean the penalty for that miss is your dad. Yeah, I mean, that's not that's not breakaway balsa wood No, I mean that's probably one of those famous gags that Jackie's repeated and a few other things But that's you know, so like they're like you want I love this Like you know, this is early trick cutting and stitching. Yeah You know, but there's gags he he does and we're still like whoa How is he not like completely broken by the time he was done filming? I Mean the the one when he grabs the train and you see him go sideways Like he's holding on to the train and it's yeah the trolley go. I think I think yeah, I think is this one right here Yeah this here like watch this He flag pulls it how the fuck like, you know what your deltoids got to be right? Yes, oh How about your grip? I mean I just this is one. Yeah watch this thing Like how does he do this? He's got a wire coming out of his belt you can see it right there He's probably got an arbor up top there But like, you know, this is the one where I think he they said he broke his neck on this one Really? Yeah, he got injured on this one Back down when you broke your neck. Yeah, he wasn't a lot of help Yeah, you weren't exactly know what the fuck the doctors did for you. But like this year Like oh, but he fell on the railroad track. Yeah, there's no pads down there. Oh look and he got up look at this guy I mean what the fuck that guy and how many movies did he do like that? Oh my god He had a ton he had over like a hundred productions by the time he was done You know and Harre Lloyd was no slumpy there Charlie Chaplin. Yeah, those guys He's waiting to fall all of them. There's no there's no trickery to it They just you know, they gave you the setup but like that's pretty over the top too Yeah, we're like, okay. So when we send that guy down the stairs and number four, we're like, yeah Can't stunt double this guy Vincent from France. I'm saying like just muscles where you shouldn't have muscles and You know, we we scouted sakura cur and was like, you know, there's over 400 steps and the person we're using is like 222. We're like Yeah, we got to send somebody down this Jesus. Now I'm gonna make you on a club then we'll send him down And then we know what we'll send him down again So we had Vincent come out and look at it and Vincent's English is limited, you know, he's just you know, very French and he looked down and said Vincent you cool Like, you know one take you're gonna he's like we just lit up a cigarette and said sure when we go He did this first take he went down only about ten steps I get stuck in the railing second take is the take that's in the movie where just went all the way down like 200 steps Yeah, I mean, this is crazy This guy did this what kind of padding is he wearing? He's just wearing like, you know The regular Kevlar padding the stunt guys use some gel packs fucking air to Vince. It's not shy. Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah, he's great Again I'm doing the overlap. It's awesome. Yeah, we have a stair fetish to yeah. Love throwing guys. It's car hits and stairs It's funny you get Tom Cruise hanging off the airplane. Mm-hmm. I think it's awesome. Yeah, I think it's amazing It's also I know what it takes to do that But a lot of people can't relate to just you know, hang off and everything ever done it But everybody's falling on ice everyone's falling down stairs. Yeah, everyone gets the car thing So we focused a lot on body falls and you know falling down stairs shit that makes people go. Oh that could really hurt Yeah, especially being hit by a car, you know, I love car hits love watching that Yeah, he gets hit by a bunch of guys when you see the stunt guys actually get hit by the cars In two like in the scene when he's retrieving his car and you know, he's yeah, he waps this one's like a F Cut you whaps it with the reverse 180. You really sent him. It was a good hit really I was like 20 feet away watching it going. Oh, that was a great hit Well, how did you do when he hits the pole? We had a little bit of a wire on him So the car hits him sends him the wire doesn't really pull him But when he hits the pole high the wire helps the landing so we decelerate him a little bit a little A little bit. It's still actually hitting the pole. Yeah, it still sucks. Oh Christ but like the the downside just in case he gets knocked out. We don't want to land on his head How the fuck Yeah, it's fun Again, we we're super fortunate We get some of the best on guys and we most movies prep for like six to ten weeks We'll prep for five months with our core stunt team So the guys are really trying to design stuff and other than some, you know bumps and bruises. No one's ever been really been tweaked That's amazing. That's again Just having the right people. Yeah. Well, I guess that that helps that you have this long background of stunt work I think it helps knowing One who to call and I think you get that sense of how far you can push and again, I'm not against CGI I'm not against digital help. We do so many digital stitches and hide things Like I think it's all great. It's just what gives you that that energy or what that that feeling What's going on if if I could do it all digitally get the feeling and not hurt anybody. Yes, that's an option But there's something to still real world physical effects that make you know You know still crunch. Yeah, there's something about CGI and that's the big I had Rick Baker on and we were talking about monster movies Where they use CGI versus monster movies where they use like his type of special The thing is still one of the best. Yeah watch the thing or American one American world from London Yeah, favorite all-time films. It's one of the greatest movies ever ever and it hits you in all the right ways Yeah, so subtle. It's almost like an old hammer film where Christopher Plummer Christopher Lee. Oh, okay. Watch He's got that weird kind of in the moors You know old-school fog machines when they're in the thing well, John Landis did such a good job with that movie too Cuz he made it funny. Well, that's thing. Look at the tone of that movie. Yeah, it's so different. It's it's not quite action It's not quite thrill. It's not quite horror, but it's that little Nexus of that weird Almost cheesy, but he rides the line, but then it's still fucking scary. Yeah, and it's got the best transition into a werewolf Oh, yeah, and it's and I mean the what would you call them werewolf Nazis? Yeah those monster Nazis. Yeah, it's such a good movie But I would agree man. There's something about you know I put the KY jelly on on the creature suit and it comes out and there's something about that But I think the really way to do if you could blend it You know if you can blend that great prosthetic effect with the CG motion and somehow really put those two together It's just most people nowadays they choose like what half of what we're doing are blends like it's a practical stunt Done in a digital composition like I'm layering in things Like the the the shotgun stuff the guys are on fire But I'm putting the shotgun stuff and they're all different layers that I've stitched together All the guys are doing it so I don't have to worry about you know putting guys out because they're still on fire Doing like a Texas switch we see one stunt guy on fire run in and another stunt guy he goes out he gets put out and The other guy comes in so what was the inspiration for this? What was this shotgun supposed to be loaded with it? Well, it's actually it's actually called dragons breath. You can check it on It's real dragons There's this great YouTube video with this Russian guy if you type in dragons breath, he's got a red white and blue shotgun He's this crazy Russian guy that does it and it's Fucking that guy second one down. That's the first video I saw of it with this crazy Russian guy He shoots like a spear gun out of his 12 gauge he does all this stuff he's doing all these wacky rounds Like you know these little needles that come out and then spear and he does dragons breath. Oh wow and so So really does like people Fucking crazy they're the they're like the big balls right they're covered in phosphorus So they hit the air they ignite so they're putting holes in you and they're lighting you on fire at the same time See I saw that like early in prep I was just fucking bored out of my mouth surfing through the internet I was going like I was looking up like we already did the Benelli thing, you know, we didn't the caddy You know is quite loading. I'm like, I don't know if I want to shotguns again, but I'm like look it's the third act I got to go ramp somewhere. I have the Arctic triumph sequence in my head I know I'm gonna do the stairs And then Taron introduced me to the Genesis shotgun automatic shotgun that thing is insane I shot at his place It's crazy. Isn't it like 12 rounds? How many rounds? I think it's more than 12. Is it 20? It might it might just a giant banana clip. Yeah, I thought it was almost like 14 or 15 It's something like that right but like and it's it's boom. It's like very on an AR platform, but it's a shotgun So he had already introduced me to that and that was out in Berlin going You know, how am I gonna do because it to regular people it looks the same. It's not a stylistic change It looks like again like an air or 308 or something, right? So it wasn't gonna be a shocking change if he grabbed it from the guy. So I'm like I'm gonna do this and then I saw that video. I'm like Like oh But then I couldn't figure out like because it's just that starburst and like like you like no one they're gonna call bullshit on me Right that doesn't exist. So I thought in the montage. I'll have these guys pull out the dragonsmith and then I saw this You know, I have this huge video game Like cinematic trailer collection and I was just scrolling through it in this game We know something I had I'd saw like years ago was called Hong Kong Massacre You have Hong Kong Massacre trailer and I was like what was cool about it was from the top like we use top shots a lot And film and action but always looks like if I did top shot here She's looking at the carpet and be the top of our heads doing fight stuff, right? So it's okay But like I wanted a way to make it color and poppy so I saw this and the blood on the white floors and the paper And all the fuck is this right, but this is some wacky I had never heard of but I'd saw the trailer It's fucking cool. This is a video game. Yeah. Oh my god Well, we're getting so close with AI and CGI and the the ability to recreate scenes that aren't real, right? I Are you worried that there's gonna come a time where you're not going to need to film movies anymore? I I don't Yeah that well, you know, that's part of the thing with the writer strike right now Part is it a part of the negotiations is AI and they're trying to and I prepare for well that's urgent technology That's gonna replace that's what's interesting Like, you know people think that you know, the writer's strike is about something but that and there's pay raises There's there's a lot of issues to what the WGA is doing right now But I think the writers are addressing something that people dismiss too easily Which is the AI influence like somebody's got to be the first one to bring this up Like it, you know, you'll have some people might might critique Going why are we talking about AI like they're not gonna write but yeah, they it can I think the writers are doing the absolute right thing right now by bringing this up by introducing this because it it's at that point where AI is doing the art already, you know, you can pipe in right? Yeah Yeah, and they should I mean we we've seen what it can do it's impressive, but you do have to feed it from somewhere It's not quite gonna take over the world yet. Well, this is artists Her name is Molly Crabapple and she she's been speaking out about this and it's she's got a very good point. It's they're not really Making these they're kind of stealing them from online. That's what's happening Because the scripts have to come from somewhere right I have to input something well, but at least with writing You're kind of inputting from language human language that has existed forever but with illustrations they're taking illustrations like you you aware of the The artist Alex Gray. Mm-hmm. Alex Gray is a famous visionary artist There's a lot of his wild psychedelic stuff You can ask AI to make like pull up the ones that I have on my Instagram There's they they did these images in the style of Alex Gray and they're as good as Alex Gray stuff I mean it but it's stealing but they had to from his style. It's his style. He created this that like all that, right? Like that is all AI generated and it's fucking fantastic Fantastic and it's some people like I don't like it. Well, I do Yeah, I like it because I like to look at it, but I would rather it be something that Alex Gray actually made But if you look at that that art is incredible I mean, it's undeniably incredible and it's all psychedelic inspired and like look at that. I mean, come on That's AI made that yeah, I mean what the fuck man? Yeah, I don't that's a Chianos really big on that too. Like we're all worried about not where I guess we're concerned about what What the not just the licensing I'm not worried about being out of a job Yet, I don't think I think we're still a ways off from that as far as live-action film goes as far as an amaze or Video game cinematics and stuff. I think that's that's on the horizon Yeah, I really think that's coming if you're doing trailers if you're doing short films, especially with computer-generated animation Yeah, I think that's a legitimate concern as far as the overall creative. I don't I agree with you I think it's a concerning thing. But like we how do you control technology? You can't don't do it So it's just going to get better. I think Unfortunately what one might thought is that one day it's gonna get to the point where People have to cherish things that are actually made by humans. Yeah, like this tables made by a person handmade Yeah, I made by a person and it's not going to be everybody that cares There's gonna be some people that don't give a fuck. I mean, I made table. Yeah, maybe they want look I want to I want a human written song. I want yeah Compose music. Yeah, you know But I think the licensing part of it is like until I mean as far as I know they still have to input like you're saying James or John Gray they have to like him. They don't have a word for it So they have to import and literally steal his his output. Yeah. Yeah It's like you have to steal his images and then use AI to make something in the style of him But as far as like illustrators for like the cover of books and things along those lines, I think that's very viable Yeah, they're fucked performance still I think is because even now with what they can do with avatar They still need performers to go in to give you that little twist Yeah I mean I think we you know Directors came in and kind of create you know Like the animations like we you're still using a model that you've seen in your head and try and get that computer generated character But I think the real genius of film sometimes is the unknown right the happy accident as Orson Welles would say You'll get Keanu or Brad Pitt or you'll get these wonderful actors up there and you'll get like I just watched heat Last night. Oh, amazing. Like you can't tell me Man had all that like those are just great people on screen and they're just you can't help with you It's a great ass like, you know, that wasn't scripted. That's how like, yeah, there's still those moments I think how about Al Pacino having a kid at 82? very fucking psycho or stud Yes, but I mean, yeah, where's he gonna be when that kids 20 or five? Yeah, you know or five Yeah, right. Right cuz like but like that's that's crazy, right? It's great. That's pretty crazy. Yeah, that's crazy He's 82 years old and we're still shooting live rounds What the fuck or it's a great cover story, I don't think it is yeah, but that's that's impressive I mean, maybe he needs to get a DNA test Did he demand one oh That's a tense moment that he could no longer have children. That's a oh boy. It turns out he is the father That's a tense moment. That's an uncomfortable conversation. I couldn't have kids You wonder if he was like, yeah He had to I mean to say I don't trust you. I want a DNA test on that That flavors the entire rest of the yeah, I'm gonna go. Yeah, I mean it's always gonna be the mommy daddy talk You might not make it to the kid being five because of her She might have a heavy pillow for him Have another cup of tea darling, yeah, yeah, whoops. What is that a banana by the stairs? Yeah. Yeah, it's uh That's the tense moment. You're asking someone to take a DNA test and then you say I'm sorry That's not enough trust out there anymore. Yeah. Well, that's probably gonna be remedy too I think mind reading is around the corner. I think you think is that we're headed No, I think we're about a decade away from no secrets None zero people being able to read people's thoughts. Really? Yeah, I don't think I think The application of it will probably they'll start probably Doing neural Inc and similar technologies. They'll start doing human trials probably within I think I can start doing it already But I mean in terms of like the ability proved Yeah, they're approved for human trials. Yeah, what kind of psycho? Do you have to be to be one of the early adopters like yeah, go ahead What kind of quarter-size hole my fucking skull Pretty desperate you really want that cigarette or than that bowl of soup? Yeah, whatever. There's all that crazy stuff in the 70s on MK ultra and all that they were always there I'm trying to do all this shit. Oh, they were doing some wild shit and in the 70s and the 60s Yeah, that's what the book chaos by Tom O'Neill. I talk about it too much and I'm sorry for everybody was No, I haven't read it. It's about Manson. It's about man in the CIA Yeah, MK ultra the acid in sorry Jolly West he was also responsible for making Jack Ruby go crazy He visited Jack Ruby in jail and after he shot Lee Harvey Oswald and then Jack Ruby was like saying they're burning the Jews I'm he's like like hiding under his bunk screaming like I mean hell like he was They fucking dosed him with acid then they dosed Manson with acid and I think they taught Manson I mean according to Tom O'Neill's research, which I trust and it's an amazing book Tom O'Neill Was a guy who was a neighbor for my friend? Greg Fitzsimmons and he was like hey, what are you working on? He's like I'm writing this article about Charles Manson and the the anniversary of the Manson family murder murders He starts writing it 20 years ago and he starts doing research and he can't get the article out It's just too much research. He's doing too much and he it extends fucking forever He keeps having to give money back and like the publishers are freaking out at him And then finally they got him someone to help him and an editor to sit down with them and he puts out this Masterpiece and this book is called chaos and it's the definitive book on Charles Manson the Manson family and their ties to the CIA and it's fucking crazy It's great. They did it to discredit the hippie movement They they had this guy and these flower children They had them go out and fucking murder people and they talked him into doing it with acid and they trained them how to do It through the techniques that he learned through MK ultra Yeah, it's like it's pretty pretty definitive. I mean if you when you read it, you're you know, you know It doesn't leave a lot to imagination Yeah, it's like pretty much. That's what they did and you know, they were involved in all kinds of shit with that back then You know, they that's the Stanford prison experiments. That's the Harvard LSD studies the Harvard LSD studies when they did that You know who was in that? The fucking unibomber the unibomber. Yeah Ted Kaczynski. He was a part of the Harvard LSD studies He was already fucked up and his brother said he was already fucked up because when he was young There's a great documentary on him that's on Netflix. It's really good I and in it they talk about how he was ill when he was a child when he's a baby and they put him in like this in I guess some sort of a hospital and in this hospital they didn't pick him up They didn't take it. They just let him cry in a crib for like weeks and months and like he had no human touch Jesus. Yeah, so he became like this and that I'll make him a fucking psychopath and then on top of that They put him in the Harvard LSD studies So then they don't and then he writes the manifesto and then starts fucking killing people because he thinks rightly So the technology is gonna replace human beings, which I think is probably as crazy as he was He probably saw something. I mean if you extrapolate what's happening now with technology And you take it to? To its logical end like what's the event horizon of technology? Well, it's an artificial life form It's probably what it's probably not just AI. It's probably life itself It's not the artificial intelligence that exists in a computer. It's probably a new form of life And I think that's probably what human beings give birth to I think that's what we're doing That's why we're obsessed with technology and innovation. I think it's a part of the process that leads Intelligent life forms to create intelligent life. Yeah, which is evolution and that intelligent life creates vastly superior intelligent life Because it just knows how to do it better and it probably doesn't like almost instantly. It's like oh you guys fucked up everything exactly And looks back and goes okay. We don't need you anymore. Yeah, well not only that just all we would have to do is Just make all you'd have to do to get rid of people It's people like oh, they're gonna wipe us out all I'd have to do is give us free electricity free food free internet and an app that makes you come and That would be it. That's it. We don't that'd be around. I'll just stay in our homes Yeah, no one would go anywhere let it fade out if you can come 300 times a day. Good luck having a family Good luck having relationships good luck even forming them if you can have dating these these experiences through an app or through artificial intelligence some something that's attached to your brain that's Infinitely superior me look how addicted people are to just looking at Tik-tok just looking at people do dances and get hit by cars It's just really crazy It's insane and it's so addictive and it's very minor in the reward that it gives you it gives you this very Minor dopamine rush right but if it gives you Transcendental experience unbelievable experiences surreal to the point that they feel real well That's the worry about the simulation right that There's a lot of people Elon included that believe that it's more likely that we are in a simulation than not and that's like I had a long conversation with this guy about probability theory and simulations and According to probability theory we are in a simulation, but it's like How do you what does that mean like what are you saying like well if there is a simulation if it's possible if there is infinite galaxies out there which we're pretty sure there are and there's infinite numbers of life forms that are where we are and superior and then superior to that and then like every variation in between It's inevitable that someone is going to come up with something. That's indistinguishable from reality Or superior to it and maybe we're in that right now And if we are in that right now, you know How'd you know? Yeah, would you know? I mean maybe that is what life is maybe that that is Yeah, maybe that's exactly how it works out Self evolving. Yeah, this is not correcting. Yeah, and we think of it is like oh my god It's not even life But maybe that is that is what the universe creates the matrix did hit on a few things like that Which makes it a little bit. There's a whole thing. I remember after that came out was 98 99 Everyone was really thinking like that. You're like, how would you know right? And they had that they had that great little scene at the end was like, you know The first one failed because it was too perfect. Yeah, you fucking humans need failure. You needed pain You needed misery to make it work and that kind of auto corrects back to you Yeah, like at first you'd go like well, we can't be in a solution because my life wouldn't suck so bad Then you're like, well actually You know, yeah, maybe it would maybe it would suck Well, maybe that's also what motivates people to continue to buy things and innovate I was gonna say without that I want more right? How do you keep the machine going? I mean the gerbil on the wheel and it's kind of like people inherently know it which is why people are just wanna carbon By the by the wake. Yeah, but they want to go buy a new tent and they want to buy a canteen They want they keep one they want everybody wants their kit man. Everybody loves kit It never stops it's a desire that human beings have that no other animal house Which is weird now too because it's not only just going out and camping They want to go out camping so they can share experience with someone else right at times I'm still a little old-school. So I don't really do the social media thing or anything But like you don't do it at all. I we have a Instagram for the company That's that's good, but you personally don't do it. No good for you I just I'm so happy when I meet people that are just I would know how good for you I'm gonna say ignorant. I'll let you talk where I draw the line. I don't have Plus is Chinese spyware, but yeah exactly right. It's another way into the phone as opposed to what though America Let's just say it like it's the same thing. It's just okay different country. Who do you want? Who do you want? Who do you want listening? Well, that's this is interesting like that car that I showed you that the Steve McQueen the bullet car. I was googling that and then all sudden it shows up on Instagram Shows up a bunch of them show up on Instagram. I'm like, what the fuck is this? You know many times Yeah, of course. How was that on my Instagram? I didn't look for it on Instagram They just cross-reme since somebody sharing somehow or another it's getting in there. This is what you want That's what I literally have a separate computer at work completely dialed in like almost Eric Off me because the shit I look up is pretty sketch It's pretty sketch. Yeah, that's probably smart, you know And then I don't know it's weird people do experiences just to share them Instead of experience him that's always been weird. That is weird Like when people go camping just to let people know they're camping like look if you love camping right on cuz like you know I don't need to video video tape myself rolling to know I love jiu-jitsu, you know, right You know, I don't want but people do love to do that. Do it. Yeah, look at me. Yeah, okay. That's a bit There's also value in it for some people that do it that are in that world like competitors, you know, absolutely No marketing is one thing. Yeah, but when are you doing is a social structure? I think that can be damaging because you're not giving a hundred percent. You're not focusing I think that's a right a lot of the like that's a blurry line though. It is right because it's weird I get a lot of our stunt teams are younger kid obviously their younger kid I call them kids but they're in their 20s going to 30 I mean freak athletes fantastic, but that generation is completely woven into that like but again We're in the entertainment industry. So they're trying to get themselves out there because that's not how you get jobs Yeah, like my day you had to go knock on doors now It's like put yourself out on Instagram doing a cool trick and now you get the next gig So, you know, I can be the old crusty guy going. Ah you guys with your Instagram But to them it is part it is a weird line because it is how they get work It's how they get themselves out there self branding is a part of our world now Yeah, you know, but it is it's it's weird where people just want to take pictures just for the ground Yeah, that's all they want like experience it and take pictures Yeah, don't do it to take I met this guy at the gas station today and he asked take a picture Oh, sure, and he goes don't worry. I won't post it. I'm like Then posted it was nice to say that's kind of that was yeah, it was nice It's it's weird that you have to say that but yeah But I think he's a pretty old-school guy. Yeah, but the fact that he said that don't worry. I won't post it Well, that's good. It wasn't for him to get recognition It was fine because he's actually a fan and he just wanted to show his you know Well, you want to do it for his wife because he said his wife calls me his boyfriend or something like that That he's a fanboy, all right, okay a little deep with the story there I mean just some fucking you know, oh you got a man crush on Joe Rogan So he took a picture but he's like don't worry. I won't post it. That's interesting I thought it was interesting at the time was like it. I don't care. It's okay But it was interesting that he like it was aware of that like no, that's I think that's a good thing. Yeah Yeah, that's a good man. Yeah, but it's that the thing is like does it exist, you know if a tree falls in the forest Yeah, it is a I mean it's an inevitable Inevitability, you know and my kids are like firmly Born with cell phone in here, you know, that's it. What's shocking to me is how well they are at Navigating things how have you seen like, you know, I have a 10 Mm-hmm flying through that iPad crazy. I can't I'm still looking for my email. They're not edit shit. My daughter Figured out when she first got a phone that if she screen records because my wife gave her a time limit on it But it was a password time limit thing So she would have to give it to my wife to get extra screen time. So she said screen record So she knew when so she just rewound it and like she's doing the bank 6-9 whatever the fuck the number is. She's literally yeah bank heist and my court is well I want to give her not yet a bus for figuring that that's pretty dope. I like how you do That's that's a clever little craftiness is a big skill. Yeah, well, it's like they're they're like little prisoners, you know prisoners figure out all kinds of stuff to do because that is Necessity they figure out a way to make things and manufacture their own stuff Isn't that a trick like I was you know, people always come up and ask like okay. I want to get into directing How do I get into directing? I'm like, okay, whatever you directed like what do you mean? Well, you have an iPhone, right? I mean, do you see what these things can do like? Yeah, you know, we had the big mirror the big eight VHS cameras VCRs, that's right. Like with an iPhone like soon. Let me get this straight You can edit shoot color correct sound correct sound effect visual effect like you do it all you can I Do it on the phone on the and I've like again my 10 year old like nice enough you can fly Yeah, they're so good. Like you do effects you do slow motion. I've seen stuff that like I need a wire removal Yeah, you full-on composition. Oh, yeah, like it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable and it's just they're free apps Mm-hmm. What's all the photo ones you get different heads on people? Yeah, you can start deep faking people literally on your iPhone That's another thing is fucking people up as these filters where girls see these girls that have this perfect face and perfect And they don't realize yeah that it's a filter. It's Photoshop. Yeah, Photoshop's basically look you'll get an animation Yeah, it's a version of animation applied to an actual human being isn't that creepy though? But everybody thinks that's what you have to be. Yeah, that's what it's we you know There there's a lot of VFX companies nowadays that are did strolling cosmetic work You know not just to you know fix scars or inconsistent like flyaway hairs and stuff But you can do the the level of what's possible cosmetically in Digital work right now is pretty fast one of my wife's friends was a model and they would take photos of her with no makeup On it was all no makeup and they put it all on afterwards. That's insane. Like she's basically a canvas See, that's right. Now you go to AI and you go to like I know count a lot of actors have deals You cannot digitally alter their image in any way. Mmm. Can I tell us a story when we were talking about AI a While ago was like, you know, he had done a certain performance and they had added a digital tier It seems so subtle and so trivial, but it did change the performance. Mmm. You know, I mean, so You've come in you've committed to a performance and someone's changed it Yeah, your knowledge like that's granted that's that's beyond editing because we could choose different takes But still it was augmenting a performance that was never given right, you know That's just the tip of what you could do now What if you started digitally enhancing smiles or frowns or you give an art like it's not just a look it's not cosmetic It's performance. Yeah, you can alter so much about a person's facial features and a film Well, what just I mean guy I do it in this, you know, we do face replacements all the time You know not I can't but on some of the other cast or when we're doing a danger stunt Or we have like a helmet on a guy will erase it and put a non-descript person's face or head on it It's it's fucking cake. It's really easy Which is scary. Yeah, you're laughing about it when you're in the theater and you're editing but you're like But that's what my thought is that in the future will you even have to make that scene? Can it all be done with AI because I think right now there's that uncanny Valley, right? We see AI scenes, you know, like oh, that's not real Yeah, you know like in Game of Thrones like when they have the dire wolves walking around like that's not a real wolf Right, but how far away away from totally being I think you could do it now It's time and money. Mmm. If you watch if you gave a digital artist enough time with just the technology we have today You could do a digital character and work with the probably just it's time but we can do that Like we can make it look photo real. Mmm. It's just it's the it's the organic ness, right? It's that heaviness when you step or it's the incance. It's almost too perfect. It's the inconsistency. Yeah, it's the fucked up hair It's the you know, the little like, you know gesture that you can't figure out Yeah, yeah with the Steve Buscemi, yeah, exactly the Unpredictability. Yeah nuttiness that you can't quite get but that's just a matter of time. That's just time But the technology's there if they're just gonna take all the weird characters that have ever existed and come up with one Well, then you get an algorithm to pull the aggregate of all the fucked up weirdness out there and how do you spit that? Yeah, gal, right. It's basically a version of these Alex Gray paintings. They're just gonna take all the weird guys No, I don't I don't I don't doubt it characters, you know, I mean that's why a lot of directors get into animation There's very other other than you know, taking references and stuff But like no one's calling I mean those those animators they're drawing their characters from somewhere Yeah, well, it's a person they see in the street or it's a Tekken video or it's you know, a Taekwondo match They're taking that action from somewhere and then they're embellishing upon it. So like, you know, no one's calling them out on where they're drawing it Yeah, it's just such a strange world that we live in now, especially I'm 55. I don't know how we 54 Yeah, so we're essentially we grew up in the age where we were there when the answering machine came about We were there when we had pages. Yeah, we had pages. We were there when the VHS came about those were To go from that to where we are today Yeah, it's fucking insane and to try to figure out what's next like where the future is Right means like what the fuck that was just in the last god what 20 30 years and then an apple released that thing today Did they release it? Do we know what it is? I'm like, well, I'm looking it's uh, it's gonna cause it's gonna be expensive It's not gonna come out till next year, but it's got a headset. I'll try to find a picture It's they just released some new Apple AR headset. That's supposed to be a real game changer. Really? Yeah, it's gonna be augmented reality and virtual reality Yeah, it's got see-through though, so like there's a picture I've seen all of this one I'll show it you can see see their eyes through it Oh, what does it do? Does it layer in reality? Yeah, okay, so it's augmented And that might be able to shut off and you can do some VR stuff I haven't seen the right we're doing the show so this might be the step this might be the one touch No controllers. So it's all with your hands, right? That's what I'm saying, but you can project the hologram and then you so minority report style I'm already reporting moving stuff around. Yeah underrated. Yeah, very underrated film. Yeah, here's everything. This is it So you get so was that a screen so you're watching they do have a controller there But maybe you don't need it. So he's a playing video game there. I think oh, so you play the video game right in front Of your face. Oh, I'll see the world around you. Oh, wow So there's no screens you're watching a movie, but that could just be a screen I won't I don't want that but I want is full immersion What I you know, like that's that's what I'm interested in when it comes to like video games and films like full immersion I have to do well, we'll find out you're talking you don't want to see the world. Yeah, you wrapped it Yeah, I think that's it's gonna get real well that that's what you're talking about earlier when you're talking about like the wall-e Thing you got a bunch of people sitting chairs now you're watching you got your family on couch instead of watching a TV together And you have five individuals and their own world that's very bizarre Yeah, you're all watching a show together, but then your kid sneaks in porn. Yeah, and you got another show She's like, how's that going? It's great dad. It's that does it does end up doing what you were asking for So here's just a little video that showed at the event So here's some the guys like looking at different screens That would be on his phone or computer and this thing then expands out here in a second. He prays a button Whoa He's floating in space watching you're not gonna get anybody to leave the house in 20 years It's gonna be very strange Very strange We had to go to a bar. Yeah, remember those days. Yeah, you just told your friend meet me somewhere Oh, yeah, yeah to meet him you couldn't call him Yeah, or I remember those days when I used to go to the pool hall the the most valuable thing was the payphone Did people would call the payphone how many quarters did you used to walk around? We'd have our pager and stunts you'd have about 10 minutes to get back to the answering service if you're available or not So yeah, oh five find a payphone and put those quarters in That roll the quarter remember the phone cards, too. Yeah, we're phone cards. Yes slide them in sometimes. It works sometimes. Yeah Fucking strange strange world we live in now. Yeah I mean who would have ever thought that everyone would have a phone on them everywhere you go No, even kids that you don't need the computer after a while. Yeah, the computer is kind of an afterthought now It's just so you can see something but you can do it all on your phone Yeah, I used to always travel with a laptop Yeah, like if I was going on the road I always and now all my notes are on my phone It's phone or I at most I'll take an iPad. Yeah tops and it's just a read-on I know it's strange such a straight like on set like you people like you know You just give the people just through their phone. There's fine. Everything's happening. I'm moving Yeah, I don't know how we should do it now to be that efficient Well, it definitely makes you more productive and more efficient. You can get a lot done Yeah, you know with the right motivate like you say with the right people. It's it's it's a tool Right people it becomes a distraction Yeah But it's just most people do not have the kind of discipline that's required to like to manage the technology we have Yeah, and I get it and as it comes it gets strong like, you know, maybe you have the discipline to avoid coffee Do you have the discipline to avoid meth? Your iPhone is I think it's Right, right and it's also like if you're doing math, you know, you're fucking up, right? But what if your doctor gives you the math, you know, it's great like we're doing now like we say something he pulls it up It's good for research. It's good for sure like that But like it also can be that like don't you want to think about it a little bit? It doesn't always have to be a reference. It doesn't always have to be what's on YouTube, right? YouTube has become the new encyclopedia botanica. Oh, yeah, and you take it as real which is the scary part Oh, that's the scary part. You know what? I mean? It's on YouTube if you have gullible friends and they send you things like hey Man, that's not real. Yeah Don't you need to like Google that thing and then debunked in fact don't even do Google it go to duck duck go Well, like there are people that actually like Great story idea. Yeah, they'll Google it. They'll actually Google Oh, yeah, great story idea or a great script or great action sequence Well AI will do it for you now chat GPT will do that for you and this is just chat GPT for You know what happens when they get to chat GPT 30? So again to all that it's like, okay so Let's think like if you're not Inputting it right right just asking it and you take that idea. Is that copyright? Right, you know, I mean that's where the right funky, right? Cuz like you can do is there funky you could be the programmer you're doing the copyright in friendship But if I'm the one benefiting it by Google here like doing the AI thing, right? Am I infringing? It's a very good question. You know what I mean? I mean it can code websites for you now like really quickly like instantaneously, right? They can do code flawlessly they can do so many different things. Yeah, what does it do that industry? Yeah Oh, it's gonna kill so many industries I mean, this is something that Andrew Yang was talking about with automation But I don't think he anticipated or nothing. I and things like this why the creative aspect of business is a whole nother level Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's weird visual graphic art in general, right architectural design would be the right Yeah, exactly. I think really anything like that the coding especially and it can do it Instantaneously stuff that would take people months. I know months. What's the waiting time, right? And it's you know, no need for creativity. No need to be sitting alone bored Just trying to figure out ideas just trying to get those ideas to pop in your head I think that's you know, they call it like zero to one learning right? I hand you a blank piece of paper Give me a great idea. Mmm, that's different than if I give you a shitty idea and I say okay Joe fix it Right, like that's one to ten thinking. Yeah, you can like I'm good at like somebody gives me a shitty secret I can make a better sequence Yeah, you know the zero to one is that that's what they really pay for to come up with the original cool idea That was a problem with joke fees because joke fees would go to open mic nights and they would watch amateurs But amateurs that had like a pretty good premise, right? But they just didn't yeah didn't quite have it Oh, I know how to do that I think so a professional would sit in the back of that open mic night and watch the open. Oh, yeah It was a real issue really. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, they've all been busted most of them busted But how do you get busted on that? You just comics they just comics and then now the YouTube people the YouTube people will take bits I'll show that this is where it came from and you know some pretty prominent people have been busted doing that really yeah, because it's just It's too easy like if someone like I like I'm really good at like if a young comic says I got this idea It can't work or go tell me the bit and they'll tell me that so I'm fresh Right, like I'm looking at it completely from the outside, but they already have structure. So I go Oh, okay Cut that part out and put it in the front and say just set it up with the almost like the punchline Right and then your new punchline is this not. Oh Yeah, you just figure out a way but I didn't have the idea is there the ideas are the hardest thing hardest Premises for stand-up comedy in particular They're some of the hardest things to acquire a good thing to talk about and there's things that everybody talks about like Biden falls down Haha, everybody talks about it. It's like simple. It's easy. It's right there for everybody So there's a lot of parallel thinking but then like weird premises like someone who takes Something that no one ever would have thought would be comedy and then turns that into a bit Well, if that person's an amateur and someone's sitting in the back of the room They're kind of clunky with their way of doing it But the person who's a pro seizing goes I could fix that and then they just steal it. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing Yeah, that's the thing. So when you ask AI to write jokes for you How do you know if AI is not stealing it from a blog? Right because AI is scouring the entire internet, right? So they could be getting it from all sorts of different people's intellectual property, right? Yeah, that's true I think even even more to that is Again, what the writers are saying about now is like, you know, they're paid on their first pass their second passes You know pass the script pass script And they get paid less for a rewrite than they do an original idea I think what they're most concerned and I could have this wrong But what I was told by a lot of my writer friends is that you know, a real concern is No one's trying to replace writers with with you know, the old the finished draft Yeah, an AI can carry out a shitty draft. Yes, and then they can hire a human to do the second draft Yeah at like half price. Yeah, like that's it. So like AI is pumping out the shitty first So they get you know, that's the thing. So what's a human like you're saying what's a human first draft? What's it? Yeah, what's a first job? What's a second? And we're talking about a business that already has a bunch of shady practices Oh, yeah, I mean everybody's copying everybody everybody stealing ideas Everybody's doing but well, you know whether you're evolving those ideas whether you're just straight out ripping them off or whether they're inspiring you You're still you're still using off getting it from some right? Well, we're all influenced by everything that's been created before us life, right? There's no you can't stop by being influenced. Of course. That's why you people watch. That's why you get all your material That's how I get my retail. We just watch we observe. Yeah, or we read, you know, whatever there's a guy's do jujitsu with and he was a screenwriter and He brought a screen. He brought a screenplay he brought a fully formed script to a very prominent production company and They stole it they completely stole it and made a blockbuster film and he went to court with them and won and got credited in The film but it was a battle was a fucking battle and he probably had is a draft right there Oh, yeah, and he also had the papers. He had all the documentation that show that he WGAs for yes, but they would do that. But it's just dirty as fuck They just took it and ran they're like, well, let him fucking sue us Yeah, and that's what he did because they're like, nope. Fuck you. He's like fuck you. I met with you I gave you this idea and like fuck you like we're huge and you're some guy and you know Don't fucking cause trouble or you're never gonna work again. That's a horror story. It's scary But that is how common is that in I would I would again? It's that fucking soft line because you're so inspiring. Everybody's every blank. This wasn't inspired. I think no I'm what I'm saying. This was the star. Yeah, he wrote it for wound up starring in the movie Yeah, that's probably how they got caught that was a two on the nose But like that's I think a lot of see you stay with existing IP. That's why you know comic books Yeah, you get a book like you're not gonna run into a battle. I'm doing the book. There's no interpretation Yeah, you and I didn't have this. Hey, we got this idea for like this lizard guy and then we just right