Rick Baker on "The Wolfman" and Working with Benicio del Toro

You know. Now, when you did The Wolfman, was there a push to do some sort of CGI version of that? Was it, did you have to, like, was there a discussion about how to do it? I expected that it would do it CGI because everything at that time was basically CGI. And I had a friend that got a copy of the script and I read it and it read like a CGI thing. And I was actually filming at Universal. We were filming some of the Norbit stuff at Universal and I went to a producer there that I knew who was a visual effects producer as well. And I asked him if he knew anything about The Wolfman, you know, because I said, I'd love to do this, you know. I mean, that's one of the films that made me do what I do, you know. And I said, is it going to be CG? And he goes, no, actually they were talking about it being a makeup. And I go, well, will you put my name in there? You know, I would love to do this. So they, the original director wanted it to be a makeup. And I thought we were going to do transformation. We actually built stuff for a transformation. It was a weird film in so many ways. It seemed like, you know, Benicio was great to work with. He wanted to be The Wolfman, you know. He's a monster, a real monster kid too, you know. Anthony Hopkins was great, you know. I did it with my friends, David and Lou Elsie. But I think we were the only people that wanted to be working in a movie called The Wolfman. I mean, I think everybody else was embarrassed that they were working in a movie called The Wolfman. Really? Yeah. And they would do things. The production manager called me into the office once and said, what is this? Why are you buying all this hair? What is this hair for? And he goes, seriously? Why do you need this hair? And he had a big, behind his desk, he had a big sign and said, Wolfman. And I went and covered it up. And I covered up the wolf part with my hands. I go, right now we have this. A man. I'm going to make him a wolf man. And I need hair for that. So why do you need hair? Because wolves have fur. I was like, what the fuck? I can't believe I'm having this conversation with you. You know? He goes, what? I mean, do you need all of that hair? You know what? And I was like, that through the whole movie. It's just so embarrassing that you have to talk to someone like that. I know. But they don't just let you do whatever you do. I know. And you know, I think people who are in the industry who have to deal with this stuff all the time to think that I never have to, you know. Right. It happens all the time, you know. It's like everybody has to. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it was very frustrating. But again, Dave and Lou Elsie and I, we had, we'd worked day and night. And when everybody was gone, we had the best time, you know. Like, we're working a wolf man movie, you know. And when we first filmed the sequence in the gypsy camp where there's all these gypsies and fog and stuff, it's like, yeah. Yeah, that was cool. We've got a wolf man movie, you know. That's what was, it was very reminiscent of the old movies, but like a new version of the old movies with the fog and the gypsy camp and all that jazz, it was really similar to the original Lon Chaney. Yeah. And it was also kind of a- Lon Chan Jr. Yeah. And it had kind of a hammer film feel to it too, you know. And we, and Anthony Hopkins' makeup was, you know, a little more Curse of the Werewolf, Christopher, not Christopher, I was going to say Christopher Lee, what's his name, Oliver Reed who played that. It had that kind of feel to it. And I mean, like I said, Benicio is a real big fan of the horror films and we got along great. In fact, he would come into the makeup trailer with old monster magazines that he bought on the internet and there he is. And he would quiz me on stuff, you know. What's this? I knew everything. I knew everything on every page, you know. We became, we connected, we bonded over that, you know. The scene where he makes the transformation in the medical theater. That was a great scene. Yeah, it's all CG though. Is that all CG? It's all CG. Oh no. It's based a lot on ideas that I had, you know, because I mean, what I said, you know, because they said, well, we got to do the great transformation like American Werewolf. And I said, American Werewolf, we had a naked man who changed into a four-legged hound from hell. Right. Here we have Benicio D'Etoro and we have Benicio D'Etoro with some hair on his face, you know, and some teeth. We can't, the changes aren't the same. We can't stretch out his body. We can't do it. Right. And everyone had that same kind of feel. So I said, well, how about if we do things where his fingers twist and do uncomfortable things and stuff like that. Right. But we actually made a lot of this stuff, but it's so weird. I mean, like the production, we weren't even invited to the set when they did the transformation, even though we had stuff. They didn't want you to go? They didn't want me there. Why is that? I don't know. They didn't want your input? You know, I guess even though it's a lot of what's in there is based on some animatics that I did and some drawings and stuff, but it was a really weird deal. I mean, it's like we were the unwanted children in that movie, you know? That's so crazy for me to hear something like that. It's so, it's stunning because I would have assumed that in my eyes, your Hollywood royalty, like you're the guy who made American Werewolf in London. You're the guy who made so many of these incredible movies with makeup and special effects. I would think that they'd be pumped that you were there. Well, yeah, I thought that too, but it wasn't the case. But you know, something interesting, when I read this book on my career, I complain too much about the film industry and I shouldn't because it's been really good to me. I mean, like I said, it was my hobby and I made a decent living at it and I got awards for it and I got free food and things, you know? And it is magic. Keep that rolling. It's like time traveling, like working on this movie when we're in London in areas that haven't changed since the 1800s and you have all these people in period costumes. It really is like your time travel, you know? You get to work with some really amazing people. Yeah, see, this is all CG. It's really well done, CG. It's really well done. Yeah, and Steve Begg, who was the visual effects supervisor, was a really great guy and he was really upset that we weren't able to do this stuff as well. But I think they did a terrific job. I like CG to a degree. I mean, I like the fact that it's another technique that we can use to do things that we can't do in the real world with rubber. I just don't like that they do things when we can do it. And I think a lot of it comes down to before American werewolf, I would have to try to beg people to let me do something. I mean, it was like, can I put a mustache and a scar on this guy? After American werewolf, I would get scripts with stuff in it. I had no idea how the hell I was going to do it and like crazy, crazy stuff. But they would say to me, what? Because they did a lot of interviews after American werewolf and they said, what is the material that changed that allowed you to do work that we haven't seen before? And I said, I got adequate time and adequate money. And it was the first time I had that. And after that, I like when I did Gremlins too, I had a year's prep. But the problem is I need answers a year before we start filming, because I need to make this stuff. And usually a director's on another movie then and doesn't want, you know, well, eventually after I hound them, I'm trying to get an answer, well, give me some kind of answer, which just to make me shut up, you know, CG, all that stuff comes in post. The film's already made. You kind of cut it together. You start making the stuff. But this is obviously makeup. That is, yeah. So it was CG during the transformation. Until he's the werewolf. And then when he's the werewolf, this was done in a different day? Yeah. Well, I mean, the CG was done all in post. Right. But yeah, him sitting in the chair was Benicio on the day. And that's actually the stunt double. And so sometimes when he was running, he was running on all fours. Yeah. And on leg extensions and most of that stuff is Spencer Wilding, who was our stunt double. There's some shots of close ups. This is Spencer, the stunt double. Yeah, but that was what was weird about it. It's like he's running, but he's got kind of like dog legs. Yeah, well, he's a werewolf. Yeah, but he's running on two legs with dog legs. He's a biped. I get it. That's been easy. But it was a hybrid, you know, of American werewolf and the original wolfman. Well, you know, the wolfman had, you know, he stayed on his balls of his feet, you know, he tried to get that illusion of like dog legs. The original one? Yeah. And you know, it's so funny because I walk like that as a kid all the time, you know, and it would do things and so could Dave Elsie. But when we tried to get the stunt guys or even Benicio to do it, they couldn't do it. They couldn't walk on their toes? On the balls of their feet like that with their heels up. Why not? I don't know. You know, it's like, how come I can do it? But it's also something, a skill I developed as a child. Oh, that's hilarious.