LIV Golf vs. the PGA - The Controversial Divide Over the Future of Golf

What do you think about the fucking the live golf thing? Love it. Absolutely love it. Why not? Tell me more. Here's the reason. And I told you before this, I know a guy that went over there. And here's the thing. Some people love the preservation and the history of the PGA. I get it, tradition. A lot of things about the PGA are bullshit. And particularly the idea that the PGA had a stronghold on them. It was kind of like, it has like remnants of like contracts from studios in the fifties for actors, where you're like, we own your fucking ass. Your likeness, your rights, your images. When the golfers golf, they can't use that footage. They have to license it from the PGA. So if I'm out playing and I want to be like, hey man, I want to put a post on Instagram about this dope ass putt I hit or whatever, this great. You have to buy it. You have to buy your shit back from them. Bullshit, why? If I'm Zion Williamson in the NBA and I fucking yoke on some of them, I put my dick in their fucking face and dunk on them. The NBA can't wait to give you the footage. They're like, dude, post that shit. Because it's gonna help their brand. PGA is old white guy bullshit. And I get it that it's antiquated. So some of the younger guys were like, fuck this, I want more freedom and fun. I want something different. Some of them, their careers are on the other side. So they might not be making so much more to win money. So this is a great alternative. The problem people had was like, Dustin Johnson or guys that are at the top and they're like, why are you pulling your game over there? Do you think you can't win anymore in this? Which is part of the controversy. It's like, oh, do you- But what's the big controversy? The big controversy is one of the Saudis. Yeah, but Saudi money is invested in tons of shit. Look up Saudi money LPGA. Look that up. The investment of the Saudis isn't like a new thing in American sports. So people are just mad because the PGA particularly is mad because they're looking something in the face that's threatening them. It's not gonna be bigger than the PGA, but it's an alternative that's fun. People like it. It's not gonna be bigger, not gonna take it over, but they don't- But what people are concerned with is that people are leaving and they're going to work for someone who's been accused of some horrific shit. Sure, but who made your jeans? These are American jeans. But you know what I mean? It's like most people- These are made by origin. But most people go, oh dude, I don't like that. It's like, your fucking shirt was made by a Chinese kid. There's a lot, well your phone. If you're complaining about stuff, you're literally complaining on a device that was made by slaves. But that's my point. I think that when you start to get into nitpicky stuff, I'm always like, I understand the idea of being like, people are anti them playing for Saudi money. But if you think you're not involved in Saudi money at a high sports level, I'm sorry, but it's there. Well, the WWE fans are freaking out now, right? Why? Jamie? What's that about? Last night that the Saudi investment fund bought the WWE, I believe. Okay. Well, what are you gonna do? What happens now? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. What happens now? Well, there's no divas. There's not gonna be any women. Look at that, Vince McMahon. WWE talent done if company is sold to Saudi Arabia. Thank you, brother. It says it's not sold to Saudi according to them. So this is what was happening on Twitter last night. WWE Twitter world freaked out. It was like trending all night. Well, go to Snopes. What do Snopes have to say? They had an answer. Oh, they did? Yeah. Is WWE being sold? Research in progress. Oh. Still going. The answer is yes and they just can't leak it. Yes. Gee. No, but I- Well, the money comes around if it's a substantial increase in money. I think here's the deal. I understand tradition, but if these guys want an alternative league to play in, who fucking let them go play? Who gives a shit? I don't know. Why do you need a monopoly of one league? I mean, you look at the history- That's not what the problem is. What people have a problem with is Jamal Khashoggi. Jamal Khashoggi, who was a journalist for the Washington Post, who was dismembered at the Turkish embassy, supposedly at the instructions of the Saudi royals. Yeah. He was critical of them. Yeah, but I mean, I don't know, man. I don't know who literally is funding. They could be just Saudi businessmen that are funding live. I don't know this particulars, but I don't know. That's what I'm saying is like, whatever. If they want to go play in that league and they're comfortable with it, let them go play, I guess. Fuck it. What an American perspective. Well, let them go play. It's fucking capitalism, baby. You want to get that fucking check, dude? That's the Trump perspective. Well, get that fucking check, dude. Trump told them it's an amazing, amazing organization. They're doing great things. Doing great things. Go get that money. I think, honestly, here's what's really gonna happen. They're gonna go get that money and then they're gonna leave. Then it's gonna be over and it's gonna dissipate into nothing. Or not. If they have that kind of cheddar. They have enough cheddar, they could literally keep this going forever if they wanted to. Yeah, yeah. And they wouldn't put a dent in them. No, no, it's not that. And you're right. They're gonna be willing to either stay there or continue to go over there. So the problem is the talent, right? It's like anything else. But they're having the events here. Correct, I went to one. So you don't have to stay, you don't have to go over there. I don't think they only play one over there. All of them are here. Like I went to one in Chicago, Rich Harvest Farms. And yeah, I mean, look, it's really interesting to see the internal uproar, which I immediately attribute to golf as an old tradition sport. So people are really particular. So they don't even like that someone's entering the conversation. The other perspective obviously is the one that is the bigger deal is people think it's an immoral move. Right, so if it was instead some enormous hedge fund got together and they put all their money together and decided to fund their own alternative golf agency. They'd be fucked to war. Just as mad. I think they would be just as upset. People would be, the PGA does not want competition. They don't like that guys are even thinking about going. And then I think personally, they're shoehorning in the Saudi stuff to go, and that's bad. See, they're more mad about business interests. They don't fucking care about the Saudi. How much of a effect is it having on the top players? Nothing, I mean, my buddy's doing a documentary that's coming out on Netflix, I think coming up soon in the first quarter of the year about the PGA. And during it, during the middle of filming, half of the guys left and went to live and he films both perspectives. And it's supposed to be really good. It's just, it's not changed much. What's the highest level player that went over there? The highest paycheck? The highest level, like a guy who's a good championship caliber. Phil Mickelson is one of the greatest of all time, arguably, in a span of many, many golfers. I'm not saying he's like number one. I'm just saying he is one of the best of all time and he is, I think he's the biggest money, right? Wasn't he the biggest? Him or Justin Johnson. DJ, yeah, him or DJ got the most. What kind of money were you talking about? 150 mil supposedly to just come over to play before they want any extra money. Before they got paid out. Whoa. Yeah. That's also part of a contract. No one knows the details of these contracts. Well, they're private, right? They don't have to disclose. Didn't they lose all their sponsors once they went over there though? A lot of them lost some of their sponsors but I don't know if you need them anymore after 150 mil clears. Right. Yeah, I think. What kind of sponsors are we talking about? CDW, you know, like business investment firms, golf is sponsored heavily by like, you know, TD Ameritrade and shit that you're, it's a lot of that shit. Which makes sense because all those guys, the guys who like golf. Yeah, that's who likes golf. Businessmen. Old businessmen. They love to do business meetings on the golf course. Good to see you, Phil. I bet if you're like a businessman, you probably have to play golf. I think it's- Some circles? It's an advantage. I don't know if in the new era, you know, our age is, what's going on now in the youth of business? I don't fucking know what 22 year olds have to do to like get through in the corporate world but I imagine it's still a part of it to a degree, you know? It's an inner circle that you're going to get leverage from somewhere or not. It's like going to a good school. It's like, dude, I'm with the Arizona State. Did I have any connections? I made zero fucking, friends? Yeah. I made a lot of fucking friends but none of them could help me business wise. It's not like going to Yale. No, yeah. You go to an accredited university, someone's daddy is a somebody and so that's a big advantage in going to a good school. When you meet that guy and you might want to work in for his firm. He might give you a fucking job. Yeah. You want a job? Does your kid want a job? It's like that shit but- Billy's a good kid. Really good kid. And he's top of his class. I give him a couple hundred grand a year out of school. We'll let him fuck off for two years then we'll figure it out. Show him how to do coke. Well, give him a bump. But so I think, like at the end of the day, whatever people, whatever those guys want to do, I just want to watch golf so I don't give a shit. I'm definitely, the PGA is still going to be the number because it has the masters. It has tournaments where it's just- Now, is this the general attitude of most people? Most people are just letting it go. They don't care. I think most guys- Or some other people are outraged. Most guys my age, I think Jamie might be in a similar boat where you're like, I don't fucking give a shit but my dad's generation is like, you don't have to go supporting the fucking Saudis and you go over there and you're abandoning the ship that you sailed in on. The PGA built you and it formed you. It would be like if the UFC had a big competitive, had a competitive thing come forward with way more money, which I don't know if that's happened, I'm ignorant. You could tell me if it has, but- It hasn't. But if it had, that's kind of the same thing where people would go- There's some guys who get really good deals that they wouldn't get in the UFC. So what happens is if there's talent that's available that's top flight talent, Bellator has options. That's an option. A lot of guys will go to Bellator because Bellator will pay them more. But it's like when you get to the world championship, like the Conor McGregor could be at Nirmik Medov level, I think they make more money in the UFC. Right. Because they have pay-per-view, excuse me, pay-per-view. You don't see pay-per-view with Bellator. I think they've done a couple pay-per-views. I don't think they've been that successful. Whereas UFC does a pay-per-view every month. Every month is an enormous pay-per-view. There's world championship fights where you get the best of the best and everybody knows who they are. It's like Q-tips, NFL, NBA, that's MMA at the highest level. You can get cotton swabs at CVS that aren't made by Q-tips. You're asking for Q-tips. Where's the Q-tips? Where's Kleenex? Yeah, where's the Kleenex? And that's not even the best example, right? Because the Q-tips, CVS that aren't Q-tips, the cotton swabs are probably just as good. It's not that fucking hard to have a little stick and little cotton on the end of it. But it's the name. To get elite world-class fighters to compete in the biggest organization, to hold that UFC belt. I have Bruce Buffer say, and no! And they put that fucking strap on you, whoa. That's the cream of the crop when it comes to combat sports. Well, that's what it is in the PGA. It's like they hold tradition. They've got it by the balls. So no one will, there's no, it's not accredited. Live is for fun. It's for money and fun. And I think they're trying to appeal to a new young market. I think they need to do that shit with the crowd. Well, the live is, live has live music. They have like, it's- Who has that? That one with the crowd. That's a different thing? That's the PGA. That's the PGA. Yeah, this has got to be the, this is like the one time they kind of let this chaos go. It's because it's in Phoenix. Waste management runs it. Listen, it's a great move. No, it's, well, you should show him a picture of what the 16th hole looks like without those stands. What they build is mind-blowing. The course outside of that looks nothing like that. They build this huge structures that surround it. So that structure they put in temporarily? Yeah, that's gone. Most of the time it's not there. What? That's what it looks like. That enormous structure they built temporarily? Yes. And they keep it or they take it down? Just for the tournament. They take it down? The moment the tournament's closed, that course goes back to what it looked. Look at the 16th without it. Oh my God, that's insane. Or 17, is it? How many people are in there? I mean, dude, that's gotta be, I don't know. Thousands for sure. Thousands, 5,000. Oh, more? Yeah, at least. If that was a show that we were doing together, we'd be like, bro. Just without grandstand, right? Without grandstand. That looks like 30, 40,000 to me, man. Look at that's what it looks like, Joe, without it. Whoa. It's nothing as a time lapse. How many people were there? Google the, what's the audience size? You're allowed to walk in and out of that area. It's not like you need a seat. Yeah, you don't stay. You can go anywhere on the course the whole day. Right, but how many people get seated by those, that structure they put in place? How many seats are available? Take a guess. I'm saying 40 grand. I would say 20K. Yeah, it's like 15,000. 15 or 20K is my. It seems more than that, man. It does. It's so big. There's a lot of boxes, too. They sell those boxes. Yes, the 16th old. They sell those boxes because people now know how fun it is. Right, but what's the actual number? I don't know that we'll know it. Oh. Because it changes year to year because they add more people. Yeah, but they have, okay, let's go to 2021. Waste management, open, crowd size. Yeah, that's it. There's gotta be a way to find it, right? Yeah, 100%. I mean, they'll give you an estimate of something. They'll give you like usually how many people show up because they brag about it. 20,000. 20,000. But that's the whole event. That's not sitting in there. Yeah, but I would argue half of them are there. That's probably 10 grand, maybe. But what a great idea to get it exciting because that was so much more exciting than a normal golf situation. Well, you should hear it. I interviewed pro golfers. This is only 5,000. 5,000 fans per day. But that was 2021. This is when the pandemic was happening. Oh, right, right, right. The grandstands are non-existent. Pro golfers say that that's the most nervous they are because people are, people talk shit, they're yelling. It's, dude, it's, most times, you know, they get this. As a guy that holds up a thing to shut the fuck up. There, there's no rules. You just can't. I love that. And you know what's so funny? When somebody does get a hole in one like that, they all throw beer, like you can, he's got pictures of it where they'll throw beer on there, but they don't get kicked out or anything. It's like the one time you're allowed to throw beer.