Joe Rogan Experience #872 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

Logan experience And we're live gentlemen here we go again What's happening back in the room a pleasure to see you guys as always? This is one of my favorite podcasts that we ever do and This is very timely because first of all the big New York Times article about the Possibility of a comet hitting Los Angeles the preparations for what they would do if a comet hit Los Angeles and the comet known as Donald Trump that's hit the United States and He's even got the hair it's just the whole thing I mean if the end of the world was coming boy, it's all on the wall, you know, the writing's all there It's kind of crazy. Mm-hmm. So what's the latest and the greatest? Well the latest and the latest and the greatest is like I mean last year when we sat down with you I think it was last November Yeah, it was almost a year got floated in the discussion the idea that this really important comet research That's going on which is just changing our whole view of history and prehistory and of the future of humanity But it would be good to make a film about this and crowdfunded I actually mentioned that to the scientists and they said what we really need is more funding for our research and so they've Inspired by basically by your show they have put out a crowdfunding campaign Which is linked on my on my website. It's the comet research group and It's it's a big story right now. So how can people find it really quickly? It's indiegogo Well, no that research much quicker way just go just go to my website Okay, I'm hank up calm and there's a revolving banner, which is the comet research group click on that and you're in business beautiful Okay, Graham hank up calm and then Crowdfunding for comet research. And so what are they trying to put together? Well, they're they're wanting to see the thing is these guys have actually not had any official funding This is a group of major highly credentialed scientists who for the last decade have been investigating the extraordinary story of a massive comet series of comet impacts on the North American ice cap 12,800 years ago that is the the global cataclysm that wipes out a whole civilization from from prehistory So that's why it's of interest to me They're not coming at it from that point of view They're coming at it from rediscovering something that we've lost about ourselves Something is really important to understand the role of cataclysms in the story of the earth and they need to do much more research So they need to go back to Greenland and and look for the nano diamonds in the in the Greenland ice cores They need there's a there's an ancient city which they're not revealing the name of which they're pretty certain was wiped out by a comet impact About four and a half thousand years ago. They want to go there and investigate that so there's a lot of field work they need to do to drive home this hypothesis and to Frankly put down the opposition because there's been so much opposition to this idea from people with vested interest in other theories that That's why these guys have not got funding So the only place they're going to get funding to do this further research is from members of the general public and that's what we're hoping That will will happen. It's called the comet research group There's a banner on my site and all the links are there to their crowdfunding to their website Which is full of masses of scientific information and to their Facebook page as well. It is a very unusual thing the the Fact that we know that comets and all sorts of various large objects have impacted the earth. We see the craters We know they exist, but it's so rarely discussed. It's so it's so strange if it wasn't for this article in The New York Times I can't remember one the last time and that it even came up and it's such a huge issue. It's a massive issue It's a massive issue both Randall and I have really you know given a great deal of thought to this I think Randall you the point is that catastrophes are the untold story of our past We were given a little we were given a little hint of it February of 2013 Chelyabinsk Siberia remember the event. Yeah. Yeah now that was just a little cosmic spec came in It was about 50 feet in diameter, which is about And it came in at a fairly low angle it blew up nearly 18 Right in front of me like this yeah if you flat it out it's usually easier how's this is better Yeah, all right there. We go so it it came in I think it exploded 12 miles About 20 kilometers up in the atmosphere, but it was still enough to damage thousands of buildings and injure 1,500 people now the thing about that one is if it had been slightly larger if it had come in at a slightly steeper angle a Little bit higher velocity you could have had thousands of fatalities rather than just injuries And that would have been major headline news at that point as it was it's already forgotten But you do remember yes, yeah oversight. We may even talk have talked about I believe we did we did yeah, I think we even showed videos of it Yeah, what's fascinating is Russia has so many of those trail can not trail cam I'm the dash cam photo cameras That's right because they have so much insurance fraud apparently over there and people slam into each other all the time And they want to record it So we're fortunate enough to have so many of those videos because of that which puts it on the record Whereas other otherwise it would it would not be I think I think people don't They don't like to talk about cataclysms and catastrophes and actually nor do I nobody wants a horrible cataclysm to occur But this is the point which is that the prospect of a comet or asteroid? Cataclysm on the earth is actually much higher than has been told to us up till now and something can be done about it It doesn't have to be the end of the world. We don't have to you know say okay It's all over forget about it quite the contrary this is this is just something that would be prudent and rational for the human species to do and amongst many other imprudent and irrational things that we Focus on instead we should be focusing on a bit on this well at least just to heighten awareness of it and and also the Possibility that we've been nailed a bunch of times and we've forgotten about it And this is this is the big thing that you've been dealing with your entire career this skepticism about past civilizations I mean I got into it with Michael Shermer who's a friend of mine who's a very famous skeptic I got into him with it yesterday Because I posted that you were gonna be on and he started chirping something about Civilizations 12,000 years ago. Where's the evidence? I'm like dude you don't you're saying this and you don't even know about go back Lee Teppi So I sent him go back Lee Teppin literally like five hours later He wrote something claiming that well that was made by hunter-gatherers It was all just really to sort of suit his narrative, but he doesn't know that no one knows nobody knows that They're so determined to keep the existing model and and when new evidence comes in which can't be explained by the existing model They just try to explain away the new evidence and not not think maybe it's time to change our theory You know this is this is the unfortunate thing but cataclysms a global cataclysm the massive event that happened 12,800 years ago the younger dry ice Impacts which were a series of comet impacts on the North American ice cap this accounts for why we don't have a lot of evidence Hard evidence of a 12,000 plus year old civilization because it went down in that catastrophe it was wiped out I've been trying to amass the evidence actually that complements what Graham is doing and it really answers that question that shermer brought up And it's a legitimate question where's the evidence? But I'm quite sure that shermer is not really educated in the extreme events that have really taken place on this planet in the last Ten to twenty thousand years and what that would do to any kind of evidence and maybe while we have some time here today I brought a few things to try to convey some sense of how Extreme some of these changes have been and how one would actually be quite shocked to find anything Existing in the aftermath of these events well Michael shermer is a brilliant guy I don't mean to shit on him But but what what is disturbing to me is that his knee-jerk reaction to this without having any research at all? In the subject not knowing at all about go back to tepi which was discovered in what the 90s yeah 96 they mean so this is to me This is something that I've looked at because of you guys in great depth when I read your book I was just completely enthralled with this idea of history having some sort of Or rise and fall and civilization having these resets so I've been absorbed in it for a long time But what's fascinating to me is people that consider themselves to be skeptical or you know or I mean he's a skeptic Professionally sure but many people who question anything that's outside of what they've been told As soon as they hear any sort of a theory outside of what they've been told they immediately call quackery And this but it's a weird knee-jerk reaction to something especially when you talk about asteroids That is a very real part of our past we have a ton of evidence I mean there's actual craters that you can look at on earth the moon which has no atmosphere is littered with them and if we look at the moon as a model for what could possibly have happened to earth or at least You know some of them obviously with the moon having no atmosphere It's gonna get hit a lot more than we are sure but still and I mean this is a very real situation that This this solar system You know it was at least as far as we know the only solar system has to deal with this But we know this is a this is a real issue me we've seen impacts Well, it's like you just said it on the one hand you have earth scientists looking at the earth And what they're realizing is that the earth is pockmarked with scars and each of these scars represents a tremendously powerful catastrophe that's happened in the history of the earth now that's accepted by mainstream science that Major catastrophes have happened in the history of the earth But where this thing now is about to come full circle is the recognition that these kinds of catastrophes have also Influenced the rise and fall of civilization and a lot more a lot more extremely than then has been recognized up to this point and while geologists and earth scientists are looking at the surface of the earth and realizing that Etched into the surface of the earth are imprinted into the surface of the earth are hundreds of scars of which Undoubtedly are only a small percentage of the total that exist at the same time astronomers are looking out into near-earth space and discovering that We cohabit space with a lot of stuff It's not as empty as we thought just within the last six or seven weeks We've had two close flybys and of previously undiscovered asteroids of previously undiscovered asteroids Just the point because NASA keeps saying well is you know there's we've counted 1650 asteroids and none of them are going to hit the earth in the next hundred years well Yeah, that's true But what about all the ones they haven't counted which are estimated to run into hundreds of thousands and which haven't been seen yet? And what happens is we see them roughly 10 days before they pass the earth that is not enough time to do anything about them But we have time if we're prepared to be rational and reasonable as a civilization to take care of this issue now when you're dealing With hundreds of thousands of near-earth objects that are flying around like what what are the things that could be done to? protect earth You can paint. It's low-tech actually you can paint one side of the asteroid affect It's albedo so that the Sun's rays push Differentially on one side rather than the other that will shift its orbit slightly it has to be calculated You can give it a little knock with with with a rocket basically you don't want to blow it up You don't want to turn you know your one big piece of artillery shell into buckshot You don't want to do that you want to you want to move it into a safer orbit You can mount jets on it people are looking now to mining asteroids of course our society always goes our civilization always goes for the Where the where the money's to be made, but yeah if we can mine asteroids We can move asteroids and and the technology is there and ironically the most dangerous asteroids are going to be the ones that are the closest To the earth which are the most accessible and the asteroids pretty much have Unbelievable amounts of resources on them I mean pretty much everything that is being mined on the earth can be found in asteroids from the hydrocarbons to precious metals to all of these things and we're not that far away from Technologically being able to actually you know mount expeditions to asteroids and mine them and that's that's that the you know that's the solution I kind of prefer because again, these things are tremendous sources of Reese of all kinds of things that would be usable to an expanding civilization and We could feasibly within a decade or two be mining asteroids And again the ones that are the easiest to access are also going to be the ones that are more dangerous because they're the ones That are coming the closest to the earth So and I another point here is that there is one specific Danger there's one specific if you like region of the sky that really needs to be looked at and this is this is the region of The sky this is why I wrote magicians of the gods because because of this discovery that there's a thing called the torrid meteor stream Which is 30 million kilometers wide and which Envelopes the solar system and the earth on its orbit around the Sun passes through the torrid meteor stream twice a year Turns out the torrid meteor stream is the debris of a giant comet that came in to the inner solar system About 20,000 years ago that thing was at least a hundred kilometers in diameter according to their calculations It may have been more so and then like other comets like shoemaker levy 9 which spectacularly hit Jupiter in 1994 It began to break up into multiple fragments and those carry on orbiting on the original path Which and as they break up more and more they degrade and small bits and large bits break off and it gradually fills up a kind Of huge hoop of debris that the earth is passing through twice a year. It takes us 12 days to pass through it We do two and a half million kilometers a day on our orbital path 12 days to get through the torrid meteor stream and the scientists of the Comet research group have made the point that a big object out of the torrid meteor stream Multiple objects as a matter of fact was what hit the North American ice cap twelve thousand eight hundred years ago It looks like there was a second series of impacts eleven thousand six hundred years ago from the same source It looks like there were other impacts in the Bronze Age The most recent almost definite impact out of the torrid meteor stream was tunguska in Siberia back in 1908 that hit on the 30th of June 1908 and that's at the peak of the torrid June shower when we pass through the torrids in June and and in November And what they're saying is we really need to focus on this torrid meteor stream Their calculations are that there are hundreds and hundreds of massive objects in that torrid meteor stream And you know as a comet breaks up into bits it becomes those bits become asteroids and those asteroids are circling in the torrid meteor stream and I've likened it to strapping on a blindfold and Crossing an eight-lane interstate twice a year and just hoping that we don't hit any heavy traffic You know that we meet bicycles or motorcycles rather than rather than trucks But the trucks are out there and what the comet research group scientists are saying is we need now to be in depth Investigating the torrid meteor stream because it appears to be the hidden hand in human civilization It has wiped out episodes of our history in the past and there's no reason to expect that it won't do so again Unless we do something about it because the remnants of that original giant comet are still circling in the torrid meteor stream And they are fucking dangerous now. How is this being received in mainstream science? I mean is there any resistance to this because it seems like this is all pretty straightforward and Intraceable mostly being ignored mostly being ignored Why do you think that is by scientists who have a vested interest in other ideas? First of all, there's a vested interest in not admitting that cataclysms are important at all This goes right back to really to the 19th century when science began to take shape in the form that we know it now and they Wanted to separate themselves off understandably from superstition So they didn't want anything to do with something that sounds like the biblical flood for example They felt they would be contaminated by that and they preferred to explain any cataclysmic evidence as a result of gradual processes so you really think it's because of the Reluctance to accept religion or religious ideas or to to separate themselves. No, I think that was the stuff That's where it started started to separate themselves off from that now They've gone a long way from that and many many scientists have got a vested interest in what is called uniformitarianism or gradualism And they they don't like to hear about cataclysms having any major impact on the story of life So is it sort of the momentum of these initial? Desires to escape religious influence that have sort of led them down this path Yes And then there are others who have a vested interest in current accounts of global warming Others others who have a vested interest in extinctions taking place now They want to say that our ancestors were responsible for the extinction of all the mammoths and mastodons and so on and so forth Whereas the comet research group scientists are saying no Those huge megafauna of North America were wiped out as a result of the massive series of impacts on the North American ice cap I'm reading a book right now by Dan Flores a really interesting book called coyote America He's a wildlife historian And he is really an expert on all the different forms of wildlife in North America where they originated where they migrated to and one Of the more fascinating things about it is he's talking about all these animals that went extinct, you know 10,000 plus years ago this mass extinction event and never once does he bring up cataclysms and there's all these different These different ideas and one of the big ones being that human beings with atlatls Which is like really a very weird sort of a spear throwing device wiped out the woolly mammoths and all these other animals and to me It's a little posture. It's a lot lunatic idea Also, if you have any contact with hunter-gatherers today, you find that hunter-gatherer peoples don't overkill their game They they hunt them respectfully they take what they need and they leave the rest because it's a renewable resource for them So I don't think hunter-gatherers wiped out the the mammoths in North America. The evidence is compelling It was the comment well the evidence that you brought up when you were here the first time when you showed the images of all those mammoths that had Been literally knocked over with broken legs from the impact of something mass burial grounds like these mass You know not burial grounds obviously, but mass Casualties mortality sites mortality sites. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, in fact, Graham I visited one up in South Dakota called hot Springs Where there's just several dozen nobody knows how many are actually there, but there's at least several dozen Two species woolly mammoths and Colombian mammoths that have been entombed and While we were there I interestingly I you know the the guide the woman giving us that the tour there was kind of giving the gradualist explanation at well over long periods of time these mammoths wandered into a sinkhole and were too dumb to get out and So they became entombed and I asked the question Well, what studies have been done on the sedimentary matrix in which their remains are being found Because as I'm looking at this sedimentary matrix, I'm seeing a massive deposit that in other words a deposit that was Instantaneous instantaneous and when I brought that up she actually got very irritated and my only yeah dismissed my question Didn't you know what we've got it all worked out. You know, we know about that. Well, what is it? Well, you just we've got it all worked out and then immediately went on with her Like but yet I had an article that was actually written by one of the original scientists that worked on the site and he he His description was well, it could have been that but also as an alternative and he was the term bloat and float That what you had was woolly mammoths that had been caught in a flood drowned and their bloated carcasses floated into a Depression in the landscape and that's where they were entombed And that makes a whole lot more sense to me than the fact that you know Individually over several thousand years these in these mammoths wandered into this sinkhole and then couldn't get out But you got a bear in mind we're talking about, you know at the end of the last ice age 120 roughly species of megafauna that disappeared which is about equivalent to the same number of Megafaunal species that inhabits the earth today Well as a short period of time was something like 65% of the North American mammals when extinct 75 75 Yeah, very short period time very short period of time pretty much Totally coincident with that period called the Younger Dryas and so there's nothing Resembling what we're capable of doing today back then I mean when you look at human extinction events human cause extinction events what's very logical and what we're doing today with pollution and the expanse of civilization and weapons are super sophisticated if we wanted to we could wipe out a lot of different species Yeah But what we're actually actually seeing is that at the end of what's called the bawling Alarad which was the Gradual warming at the end of the last ice age that preceded the sudden catastrophic change at 12,800 Was it a Clovis culture that existed for three to five hundred years? I think yes somewhere, but they suddenly were gone, right? Exactly simultaneous with the mammoths and then there are interesting studies that coming out now showing that at least continental wide There was apparently a major human population crash exactly coincident with the megafaunal extinctions Because you had quarries that had been mined for centuries that are suddenly abandoned you have campsites that had been that had generations of Debris and in toolkits accumulating and so on debris from the from the the fluting of the the spear points and so on That are suddenly abandoned, right? So the evidence actually suggests that the human population crashed Which would certainly imply that they would been far less capable of wiping out all of these species of megafaun Also the the studies of their their diet and their life ways suggests that they were very quite diverse They were hunter-gatherers and they focus mostly on small game They ate a lot of fish a lot of shellfish they gathered food and why would they go after the biggest most dangerous? Animal, you know in the in the whole In the whole array of animals and with incredible efficiency hunt them to extinction in a hundred years. It doesn't make sense No, it makes no sense. It seems pretty silly From that time of her may say Randall mentioned the Clovis culture This is for a very long time really until just a couple of years ago all of the mainstream Academics in the fields of archaeology and anthropology were saying there were no human beings in North America Before let's say 13,000 years ago give or take 500 years So they came across the Bering land bridge the Bering Strait at that time was above water sea level was lower They entered the Americas then they weren't hit there before now in the last two to three years There's just been a whole raft of new scientific research and no Scientist today is prepared to defend the Clovis model anymore It's accepted of course that there have been human beings in America for 50,000 60,000 years and there's weird genetic links like for example There's a trace that connects Aboriginal Australians with North Americans. They had a common ancestor. It's a very peculiar thing that's going on And so what what happens is that actually these scientific models which constrain and restrict research for so long Do get overthrown and that Clovis model is being overthrown and what the missing piece of the puddle puzzle I think for everybody working in this field is the cataclysm the comet what happened between 12,000 800 and 11,600 years ago was changed everything Is it be bizarre to you guys or frustrating in any way that this is not a mainstream idea? This is this is very much fringe, but yet It's it's not something that we don't have any evidence whenever whenever I put out a book. I'm I Immediately there's this there's this huge hostile reaction like the Michael Sherman thing like the Michael Sherman thing I mean I mean I would say magicians of the gods which I published in 2015 which deals with this whole comet issue is actually the most thoroughly documented the most thoroughly referenced book that I've ever written It's calm. It's measured. They actually don't read it. They just say oh Hancock's brought out another book. He's a pseudo scientist That's what they always call me or a pseudo archaeologist And and it's obviously rubbish because it disagrees with everything that we know well That's the point of the heretic in society is to offer an alternative view and and and well documented evidence But it seems that we're dealing with such a deeply ingrained mindset Which is connected in curious ways to power structures in our society that it's very difficult to change it absolutely And like Graham mentioned earlier there's kind of a it went from a religious motive I think in the 19th century and now it's more a political motive and again the idea that Every day you'll find something you know coming from Various factions that were destroying the earth and the earth has never suffered this kind of You know Assault on it before and and you know we're causing the sixth great mass extinction And we're gonna cause catastrophic global warming if we pump another 50 or 100 parts per million of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and and so What that is done is like many? I won't say many but several of the scientists now that have been in the forefront of criticizing the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis are also very much involved in the global warming movement and The idea that we are now precipitating the sixth great mass extinction Having looked now at mass extinctions and been really an obsession of mine for about 30 years now I've looked at everything from the Cretaceous tertiary the Dpermian Triassic You know right on down the line to the most recent one which to me is really in some ways the most interesting because the most Recent mass extinction that we're talking about is the one that took place while we humans Were were a part of the of the story and between 12,000 800 and 11,000 600 years ago the Younger Dryas Yes, the Younger Dryas, which is still in an unexplained Climate anomaly that happened and I mentioned this I think in previous broadcasts That you know what you had was you had this spasm of extreme warming followed by rapid shifting into extreme cold literally within a matter of a few years and we're talking about Climate changes that are up to 15 degrees Fahrenheit within perhaps one to five years Which utterly dwarfs anything that we've experienced in the last since the Industrial Revolution began? And we still don't really understand and that's why this research is so important because now we understand that there was something Cosmic that happened it's left its imprint in the landscape over what four continents five continents Yeah over over 50 million square kilometers of the Earth's surface Just a giant debris field of the stuff that is only produced by massive impacts these things come in at 70,000 miles an hour and You know if they have any diameter at all if they're if they're a hundred Meters or more in diameter they are they are going to hit the earth really hard They're not going to burn up in the atmosphere And when they do they pack a huge amount of kinetic energy a huge amount of heat and shock and that creates very definite Chemical products so nano diamonds so carbon spherels so melt glass That's like the trinitite that was produced in nuclear explosions All of these when they're all found together in the same layer of soil and when you can put a date on that layer of soil And when it's all over the world. There's only one thing can explain them a massive cosmic impact I don't understand why this is controversial. I really don't I mean I do I understand it because I know that once people start teaching things Once people start doing lectures and giving speeches They want to stick to their guns, and they want to they want to somehow or another Avoid anything that's going to contradict what what they've been Yeah, this is a game changer this information it changes everything it changes the way We've looked at our past it changes the whole story of archaeology, and it changes the way We're going to look at the future, and I think that people in academia are Reluctant to embrace that change and they're afraid of being called Pseudo-scientists because there's a whole lobby of skeptics who use this word pseudo scientist or pseudo Archaeologist as an instant dismissal of other ideas and those who are in the profession They don't want to get tarred with that brush. They want to keep themselves clean and I understand that but you're talking about hard evidence Yeah, you're talking about this nuclear glass. You're talking about nano diamonds You're talking about core samples that show this massive shift when you do the ice core samples massive shift in temperature And you're talking about very clear evidence of impacts that we know exists. It's not like a comm. It's a theory No, it's not like it's Bigfoot or something like you know like we're looking for the final piece of evidence It shows that comm is a real thing exactly it's real. It's totally It's totally real, but it's so difficult for those who are invested in other models to accept and unfortunately They have the ear of the media It's the it's there are all by the way all the scientists in the comic comic research group are Absolutely mainstream scientists, and they have taken a lot of flack from their colleagues for even daring to investigate this area That's why they've had no funding. They've had to fund themselves. It's so well That is so crazy because this is not a controversial thing in my mind Shouldn't be it should not be this is not an airy-fairy thing. We're not talking about psychics We're not talking about UFOs We're talking about something we know exists yeah So to bury your head in the sand over something like this seems to me vested interest Interests right now NASA is spending the equivalent of One attack helicopter a year on investigating the the comet and asteroid danger. You know 50 million dollars a year That's not that much. It's peanuts. It's a tiny. It's a minuscule some hundreds of billions of dollars on on massive sophisticated military equipment which we can use to Slaughter one another in ever more sophisticated ways, but just 50 million dollars a year on Saving the earth from from a potential cataclysm that could put our civilization back into the Stone Age tomorrow And I don't mean to keep harping on Michael Shermer because I like my goal But that he he highlights this sort of natural inclination To poke fun at something that he has done no research on whatsoever When I pointed out go back Lee tepi and I sent him some articles from National Geographic He went radio silent. I mean he should know about it. It's astonishing the number of people Mocking it yeah, you're gonna mock it. You should actually know what you're mocking and to say that go back Lee tepi was created by hunt together as well. I'm sorry. That's just a theory. That's not a that's not a fact You have a sophisticated site with astronomical alignments with hundreds and hundreds of megalithic pillars weighing up to 20 tons each the world's first Perfectly aligned north-south building which you can only do with astronomy This is it's not enough to say oh, they were just hunter-gatherers. There was something extraordinary from a half a mile away Yeah, I mean there's some serious sophistication. I mean what how big were these stones? Well the the biggest one actually still in the quarry they left it because it had a fault in it They clearly intended to move it 50 tons You're looking at 20 foot high objects, and then it's the it's the putting together of them see here's the problem hunter-gatherer societies are not the kinds of societies that produce large-scale fixed monuments Why because they don't generate a surplus you can't pay for somebody to become an architect and for? Of those times somebody to come an astronomer you're busy hunting and gathering and that's what you do Agriculture generates a surplus and that's the that is the problem at go back to tepi because there is no background This site just appears out of nowhere amidst what appears to be a hunter-gatherer community But what they're not considering is the possibility we're looking at a technology transfer That the survivors of a lost civilization who already had all that knowledge Came to go back to tepi and used that site as a center of initiation to teach the local hunter-gatherers How to do agriculture and that's now taken as the beginnings of civilization I would say it is the reinvention or the re making of civilization so when we're looking back at Sumer Any artifacts we find ancient Mesopotamia in that area Iraq those are the people that are sort of reinventing and relearning Well, they're that's all the actually when we talk of Mesopotamia Which means between two rivers the Tigris and the Euphrates go back Lee tepi is sitting right there in the headwaters between the Tigris Euphrates and we cannot separate that from the later cultures that enter history five thousand six thousand years ago They're part of the lineage that descended from go back Lee tepi times And what's fascinating about go back Lee tepi is the way it doesn't fit the way there's no background to it That you would expect to see them practicing Learning architectural skills the oldest stuff should be the worst and as they carry on it gets better that site ran for a thousand years The best stuff is the oldest a thousand years later what they were producing wasn't so good This is a real anomaly and it needs to be investigated not mocked by skeptics But actually explored to consider maybe this does rock the whole paradigm And it's kind of ironic that in their desire to get away from the ancient myths and tales in the Bible They've ignored those ancient myths and tales which all talk about cataclysms well part of our modern psychology is to Imagine that we are somehow so far advanced from our predecessors that we now represent the pinnacle of civilization And anything that preceded us has to be looked upon almost as you know as if the workings of children It requires a major psychological shift to admit or accept that our ancestors have may have been far far more sophisticated than than we had imagined in our 19th century models, which basically still dominate thinking today and You know in Graham's book He devotes several chapters to the story of 119th our 20th century heretic J Harlan brats and his story to me kind of encapsulates the whole the whole process of forcing this paradigm shift and for years he was out there exploring this evidence that there had been this tremendous flooding in the in in Washington State and All of his critics were dismissive without ever even going out and looking at the evidence firsthand in the field But what he did was he stuck to his guns for three decades and continued to amass evidence to the point where they just couldn't they couldn't dismiss it anymore and finally a group of them went out and Begin to explore the the the landscapes for themselves and one of the the leaders I think you talked about it in your book James Golluly Who was sort of the leader of the the skeptic faction that had set out their sole purpose was to discredit? And lay this whole flood heresy to rest once and for all But he went out in the field and they spent about eight days in the field Where he's seeing this evidence for himself over and over again And when you look at just one piece of it you might be able to say okay There's all other explanations for that But what happens is when you get multiple lines of evidence all converging and there's no way to individually Explain away each one of those things other than just saying oh well, it's all coincidence What he this James Golluly was honest enough so that after a week out there They were in a place called Palouse Falls in southern Washington, which was one of these areas where these tremendous Inland tsunamis swept across the land And I actually just visited there about eight weeks ago Where I took a group of people out there and took them to Palouse Falls to show them right on the spot Where James Golluly was standing when he finally had his epiphany do you have any images of that that you brought with us? I have images I can dig them up here. Yeah, I sure do. Yeah, I've got some really interesting images to show you Which relates because see this flooding stuff relates directly to the idea of the impact and we can get into a little bit of that explaining how how these parallel lines of evidence are now converging, but the interesting thing about but Golluly was that in the in the Descriptions of the trip he wandered off by himself for a long time away from the group and was standing there looking at this Massive cataract with 400 foot cliffs and this little tiny ribbon of water flowing over it in this huge Canyon below it and these big boulders and he had seen for a whole week He'd been seeing this stuff and it finally got to the point where it was undeniable And he walked back to the group and the words out of his mouth verbatim were how could I have been so wrong? and he finally admitted and at that that was like a turning point and now and Again Graham describes this very effectively in the book how in a in a way the flooding phenomena was hijacked and then placed within this more gradualistic context To really to avoid the fact that it was something so anomalous in so such a departure from our modern experience That we had to look outside of our modern experience to find an explanation What they wanted to do was find something within our modern experience And this is the the cornerstone of the uniformitarian approach is that we look for a modern example and then we extrapolate backwards from that and So what they did was they saw well in the modern term in the modern world We have pro glacial lakes lake that's that form in front of glaciers And sometimes these pro glacial lakes might be held in by an ice dam or another glacier These ice dams will give away and they will cause Pretty catastrophic flooding. They're very common up in Iceland because you've got several volcanoes under the Icelandic ice sheets and up there They use the term yokelops to describe these outburst floods But here's the thing when you look at the modern versions of it You basically are looking at floods that are less than one thousandth of one single flow from these floods We're talking about that happened, you know 12 and 13 thousand years ago 1000 less than a thousand less than a thousandth in peak discharge and in total volume And and so it has been admitted in several places. I've extracted the quote saying well We do admit that this is a major extrapolation upwards, but never mind. Yeah, you know We're gonna never mind is so disturbing me see Harlan breaths For 30 years was walking the walk in the Channel scab lands and what he saw was evidence for um as he called it a humongous flood which which actually Rose and fall within fell within three weeks and and he went through decades of being Put aside by his colleagues insulted. They mocked him They laughed at him just as the skeptics do today But gradually the evidence began to mount and they couldn't deny it anymore that there had been there had been flooding and actually Eventually, they gave Harlan Brett's Jay Harlan Brett's the penrose medal, which is the ultimate, you know The ultimate bestowal of geology in America. He got the accolade And he said at that he was more than 90 years old at that time and he said at that time He said all my enemies are dead. So I have no one left to gloat over But but the point is in a way there was nothing to gloat about because what they did was they they they Separated him from his central idea instead of accepting that there had been one huge flood and and that was always his view They said oh there must have been 70 or 80 floods that caused all this damage And that's what we're that's what we are seriously challenging right now It's so ironic in a way that the human desire for knowledge is what has led us to where we are today We have this insatiable desire for knowledge and for innovation but that same human desire to achieve is also what What's the the egos responsible for that and the ego blocks anything that's contrary to what you've already established as fact Exactly as soon as you see something that might throw a monkey wrench into the gears of what you've been teaching and practicing your whole life and I know that you've gone through this with Egypt your your whole issue with the Sphinx and With dr. Shock and John Anthony West who was on the podcast was with you just recently. Yeah, he's amazing By the way, I'm gonna be doing an event in New York with John Anthony West when on the 29th of November where it's Well, it's in it again. It's linked on my website The details are on the talks and events pages in it's in some church somewhere But I'm gonna give a presentation and then I'm gonna interview John live on live on stage first time I've ever done that I'm kind of podcasting in a way such a character. He's an amazing. I love that dude and and Magical Egypt is I think one of the most important things anybody can ever watch I think that DVD series is just insane It's so spectacular and so fantastic and next to going to Egypt with that which I haven't done I think that's probably the second best thing just bad You bet and John is an example of why we need heretics. This is this is the thing you see that that the science today Yes, you're right. We have this thirst for knowledge and it's human characteristic But also we get invested in particular positions and when people criticize those positions We take it as an existential threat and where we get all angry and hot and bothered about it If we allow that to happen too much, we don't keep a place for heretics in our society Then we're never going to do anything novel. We're gradually going to get locked down Ossified into the into the existing system. We need heretics John has been the leading heretic on ancient Egypt for decades Pointing out that we should listen to what the ancient Egyptians said that their civilization was not a development It was a legacy. It was a legacy from the time of the gods and that cast me back again to this whole issue of a Lost civilization now when go back Lee Tappy was discovered it vindicated you in so many ways But what are the possibilities if any of more of these sites being explored and exposed? I mean are there are there more that people are looking at right now? Are there any that are under the radar just a year ago at the bottom of the Sicily Channel at a depth of more than? 120 feet it's been underwater for at least 9,000 years is a huge megalithic site Before the discovery of go back Lee Tappy that site could never have been explained the dating is absolutely definite the seas rose and covered it At least 9,000 years ago. We don't know how long it stood there before it was covered by the rising seas But there it sits underwater and I think underwater discoveries are and I've had a part to play in this over the years Are one of the ways forward we need to look at those areas because there was a 400 foot rise in sea level at the end Of the Ice Age you're looking at the amount of land that would be put together in say Europe and China added together That amount of land was swallowed by those rising seas and archaeology has largely proceeded without taking account of those lost lands I'm not saying they haven't looked at all, but they're primarily in marine archaeology interested in shipwrecks Now this this megalithic site is there images of this that we could look at there are yeah, yeah, yeah I can I can probably find it Monolith at the bottom of the Sicily Channel try that try that search on that pull that up Jamie Yeah, but so what does this look like is this and is this been clearly established that this actually is the work of man This is not some sort of a yardang or something. Of course. There's dispute right of course But the mainstream is not going to just accept this overnight, but again, it's mainstream scientists have found it They're absolutely certain that they're dealing with a man-made site. There are holes drilled through these megaliths One of them is very very large. There's a series of other megaliths roundabout. It's not a natural thing So here we're looking at some of it right now. Yeah, so there's that big big megalith broken into two parts right there Oh, wow. Yeah, and and and this we can say Often with archaeological sites the problem is dating them, you know, for example There are incredible megalithic temples all over the island of Malta not far away from this place incredible megalithic temples But they can't date the stone directly They have to date organic material associated with the stone and that can give them Misleadingly young dates in a case of a site that's been covered by sea level rise there can be no argument Nobody went down there and built that 9,000 years ago It had to be built before the seas rose and that puts a minimum age on it of 9,000 years What are the best images that we can look at because right now I'm just seeing rocks. It's very difficult because I'm looking at I'm afraid that's all you're going to see those are those are the best images of it that exist But the diver one right above that that's in Yonaguni. Okay, that's not in that's not in the Sicily Channel So, um, what what are the biggest pieces down there? Is it this right here? Is this what you yeah that big thing big thing There's been 30 feet long. I think and is it What what leads you to believe that this is man-made? The scientists who worked on it the fact that there are holes Drilled through the stone the fact that you can go to neighboring areas like Armenia and find Really very ancient megalithic sites where they have exactly the same kind of holes drilled through the stones and the holes seem to have been used for Astronomical sightings now this site's a mess. It's been knocked over by the sea It's fallen down, but we're seeing the same thing big megaliths with holes drilled through them And you're also dealing with 9,000 plus years of erosion and barnacle growth all of that And the ocean is a difficult place to work, you know, it's very it's it's not easy visibility can be bad. You're dealing with currents There's all kinds of all kinds of problems Cameron is crazy little submarine ring in James Cameron Well, I spent seven years scuba diving all around the world looking at this stuff and you know, it's pretty convincing in my view It is it does make sense that if we do know for a fact and we do that the sea level rose Dramatically at the end of the ice age it makes sense that some things would be buried under the water Well and during the ice age Whatever, you know, you don't have to talk about advanced civilizations or anything But the during the ice age living on the coastlines and establishing your villages communities and everything on the coastlines would have been Probably one of the most benign places To get you know because for one thing you're down near see the sea level this presence of the seas is gonna You know smooth out the climate and so forth So, you know, you're gonna have most probably most cultural development during the ice age is gonna be close to this to the sea So it's gonna be underwater now just like Graham was talking about and so this to me is probably the future of Archaeology is marine archaeology where a lot of discoveries are gonna be made And in that particular thing, I mean, there's a lot of megalithic structures around the world that if you set that thing up Like this and put those siding holes through it Would would look precisely like scrape the barnacles off of it, you know, and no one's saying oh, it's proven But what it is is we have to keep an open mind and say well, there are some very strong similarities here So let's investigate this thing further and that's the whole point of all this is all of this stuff needs more research It doesn't need some cavalier dismissal by somebody who's you know protecting their their own paradigm It needs more research on all fronts I mean because I think that there's enough evidence that is now accumulated to suggest that there is a deep history to the human species on earth and We're just beginning to really appreciate how much deeper it really is than the conventional models of history and rather than just waving an arm and dismissing this With a skeptical sneer with a skeptical sneer exactly What's interesting is there is accepted scientific models of humanity when you're talking about super volcanoes, right? Like the supervolcano of 60 70 thousand years in Manitoba Yeah, I mean they're they pretty much accept that that wiped out of the vast majority of human beings on earth Mm-hmm, and why is the supervolcano? Hypothesis so easily accepted but yet the asteroid will impact I mean both of them are real events both of them are historically documented In fact, we really don't we've never watched a supervolcano take over the world, but we've seen asteroids hit other planets We've actually watched Shoemaker-Levy like you were talking about before we bombarding Jupiter unbelievable bigger impact in the planet earth itself Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly so Yeah, and actually more than 20 impacts each each each one of them would have wiped out all life on earth If that if that object had hit the earth You know, so it's a it's a strange another thing to we were talking about underwater structures But let's also consider the possibility and again John Anthony West work is important here Let's also consider the possibility that we have misidentified a number of structures that are standing in plain view like the great Sphinx Egyptology read any Egypt logical text any encyclopedia actually they will tell you that thing was put there by a specific Pharaoh Pharaoh cafe of the fourth dynasty round about 2500 BC that is not a fact that is an opinion, but it's presented as a fact There is not a single inscription that relates the Sphinx to that Pharaoh not a contemporary Inscription not one dating from 2500 BC In fact, there's nothing at all It's just the assumption because it's close to a pyramid which they assume the same Pharaoh built again on the absence of evidence That the Sphinx must have been built by them But John Anthony West was the first to see that actually when we look at the Sphinx We're looking at a highly eroded stone object and that erosion is very odd And that's why he brought professor Robert shock professor of geology from Boston University to Giza in 1992 to look at the Sphinx and say what actually caused this weathering on the Sphinx and shock immediately saw it what caused it was Exposure to a very long period of heavy heavy heavy rainfall And no such rains have fallen in Egypt in the last five thousand years, but they did fall during the younger dry ice We had a prolonged rain out from this comet impact as that ice cap was pulverized and a massive amount of ice water was thrown Up into the upper atmosphere prolonged rain out which could have been the cause of the erosion on the Sphinx now What has occurred new what discoveries have been? Discovered in the last year like what what is new that we can look at? The in terms of archaeology, there's not much new Gobekli Tepe at the moment is in deep freeze. It's right 30 miles from the Syrian border There's been massive on unwrapped in unrest in Shanley or for which is the main town Archaeology is very difficult for them to to carry on there. It's basically just frozen where they just sort of stopped They've just kind of stopped, you know And in fact, there's amazing number of these of these sites another site I visited for magicians of the gods was Baalbek in the Lebanon absolutely stunning site and again I'm convinced that that site is nuanced it is yes There is a Roman temple there But they put that temple there because the site was sacred long before and there's this incredible You shaped megalithic wall which surrounds Baalbek which does not appear to have any connection to the to the Roman structure at all Again, that's an area which is subject to tremendous unrest and difficulty and it's difficult for archaeologists to proceed but just just in 2014 they they made a huge new discovery at Baalbek of a buried block which weighs 1460 tons which was sitting there on the site. They've been working that site for a hundred years. They only found it in 2014 1000 tons 460 is that two million pounds? Is that what that is? I don't know maybe ran those math is better than mine in converting it into one time Two thousand pounds. Yeah, two thousand pounds to a to a ton to an imperial ton So whatever had had three zeros on it double it and add three zeros on it It's a horrendous amount of pounds put that way There's a single largest block of stone ever cut and quarried in the ancient world and they found this just in 2014 They found it in 2014 now. There's another big one right beside it Which has been in plain view for about the last hundred years and it's astonishing to me that this one Which is just below it was covered by sediment that you have an actual calculator You might be a person less. I never go anywhere without my calculator calculator. Uh-huh. Nobody has one of those We were just talking about that yesterday Wow So Baalbek was also the site of I mean there's many Monoliths that have been discovered there and it's a really fascinating site that most many people have sort of overlooked when you talk about ancient structures Absolutely. I have to resist I I've got nothing against aliens, but I don't need aliens to explain these things I think a much a much leaner and more elegant explanation for these huge archaeological anomalies is a lost human civilization Much better. Yeah, that's been the case that I've been making for for 25 years I think that the alien thing is a bit of a distraction, but of course there's aliens of course The universe is full of life, but the ancient archaeological sites are not good evidence for that idea They're very unless you massage the evidence a lot. They're not good evidence I think we are dealing with a lost human civilization and at Baalbek 20 feet above the ground. We have three blocks of stone Joined so closely together that you can't get it edge of a sheet of paper between them each one weighs more than 900 tons and they are 20 feet above the ground. It's a stunning achievement. It's just absolutely astonishing How on earth did they do and how does mainstream archaeology deal with that? They say are the Romans built it all Oh the Romans. Yeah, the Romans did it the Romans did do some awesome stuff. They did do some awesome stuff They absolutely did but this site is separate from the Roman site. It surrounds it, but it's not part of it in my view In terms of your question what's happened within the last year or two I would think that probably the most significant thing or certainly right up there would be the the comet research And the discovery I mean like this article I have right here which came out in 2014 So it's not that old a nano diamond rich layer across three continents Consistent with major cosmic impact at twelve thousand eight hundred years ago, and it's something like 2425 Highly pedigreed scientists and these are the comet research group These are the scientists from the comic research group who have funded all their research themselves. They came out with another paper in 2015 where was this published if anybody wants to read this that's in the journal of geology Yeah But then there's the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences host a lot of their work as well and the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences get into trouble for hosting their work, but they feel it's important So they keep on hosting it. This is so spectacularly confusing to me because that's rock-solid science Yeah, this is evidence. This is actually you can weigh this stuff You can measure it you can you can run tests on it and find out what its components are this to me is so baffling Yeah, it's very baffling. They had brought out another paper in 2015 I won't go into the some of the details are boring, but it's called a Basie and chronological analysis And basically what they're what they were looking at is it they asked themselves Is it possible that this evidence these nano diamonds these melt glass the carbon's failures could that have been laid down? Gradually and the chronological analysis that they've done absolutely answers that no It was not laid down gradually this whole thing unfolded in a period of about 24 hours. Whoa What a night Yeah, and what had happened Joe was that for years? archaeologists had recognized this up Black matte layer at at about two dozen or more of the Clovis sites around North America Which there had been over 50 of them that have been studied and it was C Vance Haynes who wrote an interesting paper saying that? That he was the one who noted that below this black matte layer Which is only two to three inches thick in most sites you found evidence of the Clovis culture You found their toolkits and their their spear points and so on you found Evidence of the extinct megafauna, but not above it you would find this evidence of this cultural activity and the megafauna right up to the bottom of the of the Black matte layer, but not above it. So what finally happened was in 2007? Richard Firestone and Allen West and some of their colleagues and it was just basically a small group at that point took a look at This closer look and that's when they began to discover these impact proxies Usually right at the base of the layer and the layer itself is carbonaceous Which suggests that there had been a lot of soot deposited which would imply widespread wildfires factors to study off the right off the coast of California here on the Santa Rosa Islands that pretty much concluded that there was just massive wildfires that pretty much just Annihilated everything and then this was preceded by the deposition of this black matte layer and right at the bottom of this black matte Layers where you find the nano diamonds the magnetic grains the microspherules the carbonaceous spherules Full of reans you you find these impact proxies and then are not all the same at all the sites In fact, that's been one of the things that the critics have seized upon But what they're doing is I think taking an oversimplified model and when you look at a comet fragmentation event You could be looking at the individual pieces could be have very different compositions And what we were talking about earlier the torrid meteor stream I'm not convinced at this point that it was necessarily just a single impact event It may have been a bombardment episode that may have lasted Even several decades it may have then ceased for a while and we were talking about this last night over dinner that There seems to be a second spasm at eleven thousand six hundred years ago That's also associated with a massive rise in sea level. They call There's two meltwater spikes meltwater spike 1a and meltwater spike 1b I'm quite convinced that these meltwater spikes that have been documented by Marine geologists and oceanographers are correlated with these melting events of the ice sheet that I've been looking at in terms of their their geomorphic Consequences because some of these events I mean the only way I can describe some of these meltwater events is that you the only modern analog to this would be a tsunami and We've seen some pretty devastating tsunamis within the last decade or two Both in Indonesia and in Japan, and I don't know if you've ever seen any of like the videos of these tsunamis Anybody listening it is definitely worthwhile to go online and look at some of these videos where you can actually see the Unbelievably powerful effects of a 30 or 40 or 50 foot tsunami, right? Now some of the landscapes and I have a some images we can pull up here shortly Our places in Montana Idaho Washington where you literally had a tsunami Sweeping over the land there was over a thousand feet deep and that tsunami came off the ice cap That's not an oceanic tsunami. That's right. It's a freshwater tsunami It's meltwater coming off this this catastrophic melting of the ice sheet and I've traced the sources of some of these meltwater I've made two trips now up into the into the plateau country of British Columbia looking for the source of this meltwater because in the conventional models now of this this flooding this that goes back to Harlan Brett's and Basically what they've done is they said initially There could have been no flood because Harlan Brett's didn't provide a source for the water They said the critics said well, you're saying that all of this evidence in the landscape is evidence of the flood But what was the source of the flood and he didn't have a source? So the critics then said well, you don't have a source for the floodwater. Therefore the flood didn't take place then as as the research evolved you had independent evidence Accumulating in Western, Montana by JT Pardee who was with the US Geological Survey And he was investigating evidence that the mountain valleys of Western, Montana had been filled up with an enormous volume of water And this volume of water seemed to be exactly the same time as Brett's as floods he then Assumed that this was a giant lake and because you can see in and we can I think we have some images I think Jamie has some images. So we'll pull them up shortly We're on the mountainside. You see the shorelines etched, you know a thousand feet above the valley floor And what he then decided was that based upon an old 19th century Interpretation by TC Chamberlain that there had been an ice dam He said well there must have been an ice dam west of here somewhere in the Clark Fork Valley a giant lake backed up Burst through the ice dam and then this is what would have caused Harlan Brett's floods so now the geological community is shifting because number one the evidence is overwhelming and They can't deny it anymore But what they're doing is looking for a gradualist or a more uniformitarian explanation So they immediately latched on to this. Well, there was a giant pro glacial or in front of a glacial lake In Western, Montana. Well, you're talking about somewhere between 520 and 550 cubic miles of water That's a lot of water Right in in it normally when you have a large lake you have a huge catchment base and it is feeding lots of streams and rivers That are feeding into that lake when you look at the any of the big lakes around North America You have the lake and then you have this big old catchment basin and all of that's feeding it in Lake Missoula The whole lake fills almost the whole catchment basin. It's like To me what they did was they said, okay We're just gonna push the source of the water from here over to here but let's not go into the question of where did the water come from that's filling these mountain valleys of Western, Montana and This is what I'd I spent a couple of weeks in September going up into some of these following these valleys up into British Columbia and there's spectacular evidence and it's almost like The American geologists stop at the at the 49th parallel and they say well, that's the Canadians Preserve up there. We'll let them they've got their own theories. We've got ours Interestingly, the Canadians are saying that we think that the water for these floods came from up here But they don't like that because you see one of the leading Geologists who who is saying that these floods came from from Canada is John Shaw who Who basically came up to this idea that drumlins which are these? Inverted boat hull shaped landforms. They're found by hundreds of thousands In regions where where glaciers were that they were formed not by the glaciers grinding over the landscape But they were actually formed by massive sub glacial flows of water and his critics have all been saying well Here's the problem. What's the source of your water? Therefore it wasn't water wasn't subglacial floods. It's easy parallels the Harlan Brett's his story very closely Well, here's the thing Sean his colleagues couldn't really come up with a plausible explanation for how you could form these massive subglacial reservoirs In fact what they call the Livingstone Lake event required eighty four thousand cubic kilometers of water and I eighty four thousand kilometers I can do it really quickly here. We divide that by 36 That's about 2,300 cubic miles of water that's more than all of the Great Lakes combined Vastly bigger than all of the Great Lakes combined It's probably every lake in North America combined and he said this one event required over 2,000 cubic miles of water. Well, where did that water come from? So he basically said well, there must have been a reservoir somehow that formed his critics have said that's impossible You couldn't form that much water under the ice sheet Well, what's happened now is the idea of a major cosmic impact into the ice sheet has completely obviated the need for a subglacial reservoir because now we have a way of Instantaneously melting enormous volumes of ice. It's no longer a mystery where the water came from Fully explained and this has been the missing piece of the puzzle until the comet research group began to identify this evidence Well, it's baffling to me that this is a source of controversy because we know that the Great Lakes were created by melting glaciers We also know that there's vast areas of North America that are flattened by these glaciers You know a buddy mine my friend Doug lives in Casanova, Wisconsin Which is what's called the driftless area where the the glaciers didn't go through. I just was there in May. It's beautiful It's beautiful. It's gorgeous. It's good rolling hills and it's just it wasn't it wasn't crushed flat like other parts of North America We're right. So we know we know that those glaciers melted and they created the Great Lakes I mean the Great Lakes were from glaciers. We know that that's an established fact. So why is all this confusing? I just don't understand why they wouldn't just add that to it They're just gonna accept the great the glaciers somehow or another in the last 10,000 years The glaciers just decided to stop smashing North America flat and melt and create these great inland oceans of fresh water Yeah, yeah, it's it's very bizarre. Ultimately a lot a lot of ideology is involved in this There's there's there's this desire not also in the modern world There's a desire not to panic the public not to say things that are that are going to cause that are going to cause panic You know with Donald Trump being president. I think people are ready now. I think people are ready for panic I think so is there is anybody debated you on this either one of you on this? Well, you know, I tried to do but not specifically on this I tried to do a debate with Zahi Hawass who's the guy who runs the Giza pyramids and that man? Yeah, total total. I mean very crazy event. There's a video of it online Video of it online the debate last what 30 seconds something something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and then and then later on when he Finally agreed to come back into the room because he was so angry with me walked out when he finally came back into the room He was asked a question about go back to tepi and just like you're Skeptic, he didn't know anything about go back to tepi or he claimed not to know about I mean This is the this is supposed to be the world's most famous Egyptologist and he knew nothing about this incredible site in a we need a neighboring country But one point to make the Randall was talking about the second event 11,600 years ago. We're dealing with an with with an episode of cataclysm which begins 12,800 years ago and ends 11,600 years ago both episodes accompanied by Massive floods and the 11,600 years ago date I may have mentioned this last year. It's in it's in magicians of the gods What's interesting about that is that is the exact date that? Plato gives us for the destruction of the lost civilization of Atlantis Plato That's the only source we have for Atlantis it comes to us many people think it's all over the place But it's not Atlantis comes to us from the Greek philosopher Plato who lived around 340? BC and he got the story from through his family line from his ancestor Solon who had visited Egypt in 600 BC and there Solon was told of a great civilization that had existed on earth that was the progenitor Civilization of Egypt but that was destroyed in a terrible cataclysm and he asked at a cataclysm involving a gigantic flood and Atlantis was submerged beneath the waves and was never seen again And so Solon said to the priests when did this happen and they said three nine thousand years ago That was in 600 BC so that's nine thousand six hundred BC. That's eleven thousand six hundred years ago. That's meltwater pulse 1b How could they know? Yeah, how could they we have to start taking this stuff more seriously instead of sneering at it and Skeptisizing it out of existence. We need to leave a little bit of room for extraordinary ideas possibly being right That's the main beef I have with the skeptics is that they want to throw the baby out with the bathwater I want to add something to that in in the temaeus, you know, Plato discusses Atlantis in two dialogues and In the temaeus he prefaces the story of Atlantis by recounting the myth of Satan now the myth of fate and is a very interesting story and Basically what it is is fate and was the offspring of Halios the Sun God who was raised didn't know who his father was His mother kept it a secret from him. And then one day he was being taunted at school because all of his schoolmates had You know Recounting the great deeds of their fathers and everything so he went home distraught and finally his mother said well Actually, your father is the the big granddaddy of them all Halios the Sun God so fate and decides he's going to go and find his father and Eventually does and he goes to some, you know celestial realm or his father is located and The way it is with the with the with the Greek gods They have unlimited powers except they also have certain restrictions. For example, if a god makes a promise He he or she cannot go back on it, right? So when Halios sees fate and his lost son come he's overjoyed he says I'm so happy to see you I will grant you any boon you want and fate and says I want to drive the chariot to the Sun I want to drive your chariot and Halios says well, I meant Anything you wanted except that you know, so it goes back and forth and back and forth finally fate and Convinces his father let him let me do it. His father says look You've got to hang on to those rains tight because those steeds are gonna pull away from you He gets in there the gates of the Sun open it describes In the myth you can go, you know You can read Edith Hamilton or bullfinch or any of the the great Retellings of the Greek myths and they'll describe it in there It goes through the signs of the zodiac and then all of a sudden it careens off and heads down to earth and then it describes this whole litany of catastrophes just setting the earth on fire and finally the Jupiter at the Rick the the beseeching of Poseidon who's afraid that the oceans are gonna boil away get Zeus to mount his his Mount Olympus and hurl his thunderbolt which knocks fate and from the sky and he falls to earth and in Falls into the river Aradonis, which is a metaphor for the Milky Way and his sisters the heliad then Weep over the death of their brother and their tears fall to earth and cause the great flood Plato then after Referencing that myth he then says now this has the form of a myth But what it really represents is a declination or a declining of the bodies in space Orbiting around the earth in an eventual falling to earth of one of those bodies and a conflagration of all things Triggered by the fall of that body. It's intriguing that he mentions the zodiac because because the torrid meteor stream is so cold Because it appears to come at us from the direction of the constellation of torus a zodiacal constellation That's where those shooting stars amongst which are some very large objects that that have hit us in the past and can hit us again In the future, that's where they come from. They come from that area of the sky It's an actually an illusion. It appears that they're not actually coming from Taurus. It looks like that They come from that area of the sky. They come from that area of the sky and so anybody in in ancient times who was witnessing and according to the Victor Klub and William Napier and those guys who are the British neo-catastrophists that have been doing all of this work For decades on the torrid meteor shower Have concluded that you know in times past it was an extremely active shower and would have created some pretty darn impressive light shows even if it wasn't causing Catastrophes down here below but what they've what they've conjectured is that there might be times of multiple? Tunguska like impact bombardment when You know there could because there could be thousands of objects within the torrid meteor stream on the same scale as the Tunguska object and that if If you go and you read the accounts the eyewitness accounts over and over again People are saying things like well, it looked like it was being disgorged from the Sun It looked like it was being born out of the Sun right it looked like a second Sun in the sky like For a short period of time the Sun had a twin right well the summertime Torrids are coming from their perihelion passage around the Sun so you like Graham was saying they make an elliptical Orbit out to Jupiter and back around the Sun in this stream right earth crosses that stream twice each year One time late June early July we cross but at that point they're coming from the direction of the Sun So they're their arrival to earth is going to be very difficult to see because they're coming from the direction of the Sun right But that's exactly where on June 30th a torrid meteor would be coming from and then also the fact that it's the perfect date for the peak of the shower and the correct place in the sky to me is pretty convincing evidence that it was most likely a Remnant of that torrid stream the other time that the earth crosses is late October early November In fact, we've just passed out of it within the last week basically, but it peaks interestingly Coincidentally between like October 30th and November 4th or 5th, so it's peaking right around Halloween time in fact they've been called the Halloween meteors and there's some very fireworks sometimes they called the Halloween fireworks. Yeah, but there's some very interesting work done by a researcher back around the early 20th century named Grant Halliburton who spent about 15 years researching the connections between ancient calendars and He concluded one thing very interesting was that a lot of these ancient calendars were being synchronized by people's Observations of the rise and fall of the Pleiades which is the shoulder of the bull the Pleiades comprises Basically part of that Constellation of the torus. Yeah, yeah the shoulder of the bull and what he came up with was that in his research He discovered that many of these stories that were associated with this like the slaying of the celestial bull You know Gilgamesh and inky do and in the earliest Known story they they fight this celestial bull. There's many counterparts and variants of that in in mythical stories And so what he then found out though was that in many cases? The that our modern Halloween actually goes back Thousands of years to an ancient day of the dead that was observed all over the earth At the same time every year even in the southern hemisphere And it usually a revolved around a commemoration of the the culmination of the Pleiades Which is when the Pleiades? Crosses the local meridian in other words it reaches the keystone of the royal arch so to speak up in the sky So if you got on on Halloween now, and you face the south in the northern hemisphere You will see the Pleiades right at midnight at midnight they will be if you think of the the arch of the zodiac as being a A like a clock it's right there at midnight at midnight right well Here's the interesting link is that in all of these myths what Halliburton discovered over and over again? Was that the day of the dead ultimately went back to? Myths about of the destruction of the world by a great flood and or fire It's fascinating that it's all coming out of the constellation Taurus too And it's the celestial bull that they're fighting in these ancient myths and all these Cultures around the world are celebrating the day of the dead at this exact same time This is amazing stuff and right now our science is closing its eyes to this I I think it's fair to say with the torrid meteor stream Which is a very big issue in this whole discussion that we are dealing with a hidden hand in human history It's something that is going to ultimately require us to re-explain Almost everything that the skeptics hated they can't bear it because first of all it involves Cataclysms and secondly it involves the possibility of losing a whole civilization from the record It's really it's really interesting when you look at the dates of the this cluster this episode of bombardment between 12,000 800 and 11,000 600 years ago That's the period that just immediately precedes What mainstream academia think of as the very beginnings of? Civilization and they've just never they maybe it's not even their fault It's this is so recent this science is so new that they've not had time to adapt to it but if they adapt to it and take this into account then suddenly what was an Extraordinary and absurd and impossible idea that there was a lost civilization 12,000 years ago Becomes a very plausible and reasonable idea and then we start once we can once we take that on board Then we can start opening our eyes to archaeological anomalies like the great Sphinx like Baalbek like submerged ruins Like go back Lee Tepi and begin to consider. What does all this mean are we in fact a Species with amnesia are we here forgetful of the truth about ourselves? Maybe that's why we're so fucked up You know because we just actually don't know we've made up a story about where we came from and what we are Certainly think it plays a part and I also think that conservative skepticism is probably prudent when you're dealing with most scientific issues Most things that come up that people are claiming. I mean, there's so many charlatans out there crazy people that are claiming new discoveries But in some cases they examine these discoveries as long as they're far enough away from us or weird enough Like this new planet that they believe there they have a 90 plus nine. Yeah Yeah, they they're pretty sure there's something outside past the Kuiper Belt And they think it's massive. They think it's at least four times maybe larger than The United States or then excuse me the world down the world and got an orbit of about 10,000 years Yeah, and that's interesting with comets because this huge massive object circulating in the outer solar system Through the Kuiper Belt, which is a source of many of the comets that hit the earth is Destabilizing comets from safe orbits and putting them into really dangerous orbits that come our way the correctly from wrong But like what what is the source of all these near-earth objects? Does this have anything to do with Earth one and Earth two? Does it have anything to do with the initial impact that created the moon? Is that because we were hit by another planet right during the formation of the earth and this is all scientifically established astro scientists or astrophysicists rather and Astronomers all agree on that right there's a lot of debris Would go back to that to that time but but comets are another story because they're coming in from the far reaches of outer space They're coming they're coming in from the Oort cloud and the Kuiper Belt just vast distances away They're they're voyagers they're kind of messengers from the distant reaches of the cosmos who come in in an unpredictable way because Their orbits are destabilized by something like planet nine Isn't there something called Bodes law where you you can measure the mass and the orbit of a certain planet and you can accurately Depict where the next planet is gonna be and doesn't that fall apart somewhere between Mars and Jupiter? That's what the asteroid belt. Yeah. Yeah, which which would indicate that something was probably there That's been the theory of the asteroid belt that it was an exploded planet. Of course There's a lot of opposition to that theory, too, you know, you're right Skepticism really has an important role to play. It's it's very it's really it's really essential that we are skeptical Otherwise, we'd all be following on Zachariah Sitchin waiting for the Anunnaki to land exactly We would have sold our houses December 21st 2012. We'd all be going what the fuck now. I'm homeless four years later I have to say there's a skeptic called Michael Heiser who has done really an excellent job of Thoroughly, you know debunking the bogus translations of Zachariah Sitchin. Yeah, is he a Sitchin is wrong calm? Is that he's wrong? Yeah, it's a very useful. It's a very useful site. So we hated him and loved him at the same time I was so sad I love the idea of the aliens come down and manipulating the monkeys and making us to mine gold It's a wonderful story. But unfortunately, it's a work of science fiction. It's not a work of fact We need I knew him he was a fascinating man. I once drove him from Stonehenge to London We had we had many conversations. He was a deep and serious researcher But I think he I think he got he got carried away with his own fat I also think that that fantasy became very lucrative and it also became a source of identity to him You know, I followed him pretty closely as well I read the 12th planet and I got really into his research and this is in my early pot smoking days when I first Started smoking pots. Well, I was I was all in I was all in and then as I got wiser And then as I got not honest, maybe not wiser just I started recognizing objectively Why these these things are so attractive the fantastical is more attractive than the practical and so something else? Again, I don't want I don't want to put Sitchin down and I'm here also to say that Sitchin did a lot of really good work He was a clever guy and a lot of very very very thorough Research. I've just lost my track actually smoking too much dope. Where was I going? Well, we were talking about the all the the difference between the fantastical and the practical that there's this inclination to Accept things that are fun. Yeah, you know That's what I was gonna say is that when you start talking about the Anunnaki those from heaven to earth came these fantastic Creatures from thank you. You've brought my minute in a bureau thing. I remembered what I was gonna say What's interesting needs some pot? Could be good. What was what's what's interesting is that the level of technology that Zechariah attributes to the Anunnaki oblique? Nephilim that that level of technology is the level of technology that we had in the 1970s when we were You know NASA was doing its stuff. So it's NASA technology from the 1970s that is projected out onto That is predicted over the ground but it's projected out that is projected out onto his theory of the past now It seems to me very unlikely that the Nephilim or the Anunnaki Would have had for 400,000 years, which is what he's saying the same technology that NASA had in the 1970s It's much more likely that he's projecting that onto the data rather than that. It's actually inherent in the there was also some interesting ideas that he had that turned out to be ideas that scientists had also proposed about preserving our atmosphere by by levitating or by suspending reflective particles in our atmosphere and that that is something that the Anunnaki in his books We're going to use gold for because gold has such unique properties Which is why they use gold to plate things because you could take a little tiny piece of gold You could plate this entire table gold is a really spectacular Yeah piece of I mean, there's nothing like it, right? Absolutely. No, there's a lot of really good material in situ But unfortunately the translations of the texts the translations of the texts are not translations of the text They misrepresent the text often what he did was he took a 19th century translation and he massaged it So that it would you know fit his fit his argument and that's a pity So we need skeptics and they help us to sift out the wheat from the chaff and that but but occasionally what the skeptics do with this drive to to criticize anything that's not mainstream occasionally What they do is they let go a really good idea which deserves Investigation and which the human species could benefit from and that's my feeling is with this amazing species. We've developed all this science Why are we why are we so ready to let go of wonderful ideas? Well, it's also fascinating to me that because of what sitchin has been sort of criticized for people now ignore the stuff That's absolutely undeniable like the actual stone tablets themselves the clay tablets where you can see the depictions of the solar system Somehow or another these people from six thousand plus years ago had a detailed map of the source It's a clear idea of the solar system with the size in like a relatively correct order in the Planets in the right place like they somehow or another knew that Jupiter was bigger than Mars They knew these things in some weird way and we don't know why we don't know how also the caduceus Representing the the the double helix of the DNA That's a really fascinating concept to that the caduceus is used for medicine and it's used to rep I mean, it's just he had some really interesting points that karate did so it's kind of too bad There was so much crazy involved in that I think what any of us should do when we're exploring the deep and hidden mysteries of the past is is to Go to a lot of different sources go to a lot of don't just stick with the mainstream Don't just stick with the alternative but try to try to bring it all together and in a way That's what I try to do in my books except the skeptics still hate them Yeah, but it's so hard because it's so it's so fun to go with the crazy story Yeah, like the the alien story is so compelling. It's so fun very compelling story I mean if we found some sort of evidence of aliens, it would be so utterly spectacular Even if it was a simple alien like I've always said this that if we found like a jellyfish on the moon We would freak out But you know There's really complex bizarre things at the bottom of our ocean that we've never discovered Just they're just not in the correct location for us to be excited and then the other the other issue We're getting slightly off our flood topic here. That's okay, but the other issue of Entities that that in the encounters with entities anybody who smoked EMT will know that as I have as you have that will know that you do encounter entities in the DMT in the DMT state and they do communicate with us and there's a lot of parallels with the ETS or the aliens as they described in modern UFO abduction accounts And Rick Strassman. Have you ever had him on your show? You know Rick got sick. He was supposed to be here a couple of times We're trying to reschedule it now. Yeah, but he had some pretty serious health issues I know we had a date scheduled out, but I love that guy I've had a chance to sit down with him a couple of times and talk to him and of course you presented DMT this year Yeah, yeah, he's brilliant and he's so important to me because I remember when I did it I was so confused I mean to me it was like the first my first DMT experience changed everything I thought about the world and I immediately didn't give a shit about aliens anymore, right? It was almost instantaneous like before then I was like Roswell. They've got the got the ship and it's in a hangar But what I encountered doing DMT was so spectacularly alien It's a pedestrian concept of something that looks like a person but has a bigger head and large eyes and high attack Yeah, yeah, it was weird and cool as it would be if it was real. It was nothing I mean literally not one millionth as interesting as what you absolutely can encounter when you do DMT That's the aliens. That's the aliens a totally alien realm filled with alien intelligences who can be and of course again the skeptics say oh It's all just made up in your brain But we don't know that and Rick is open to the possibility that we are dealing with Areas of reality that are not normally accessible to our senses and that become accessible to our senses by retuning the receiver wavelength of the brain Which is what he suggests DMT does and I think I think that's very plausible and at the very least those who are interested in you Fuzz and aliens should be also investigating this line of inquiry Can we can we use changes in consciousness to? Understand the majestic complexity of the universe in which we live and I think the answer is definitely yes and many of Rick's volunteers I paraphrase but they came back with reports that the entities who'd encountered them said we're so glad you've discovered this Technology now we can communicate with you much more easily You know, it's fascinating. So there's a technology for encountering other intelligences and Against that this mechanistic simplistic alien meme that's going around now that they're a bit like us But they came here in higher tech the higher tech. It's dull by comparison It is dull by comparison if you're interested in anybody is the book is amazing It's called DMT the spirit molecule and he has a new book that he's putting out about DMT and the spirit and the soul of prophecy And he's just a really really interesting guy But his his experience that he did experiments that he did were the first I think in many many decades to get Approved by the government. Correct. So he did everything above ground. I mean he was above board He was he did and because it because it was government approved The his his remit was that he had to find some therapeutic benefit for DMT and he couldn't actually but that's not the point I'm sure actually there are therapeutic benefits, but that's not the point The point is here is a tool for investigating the mystery of consciousness and the mysterious nature of reality And I mean fuck me if we get five or six volunteers who haven't compared notes all coming back We've met entities who said we're so happy you found this technology Yeah, it's hard to explain that as just to reduce it to brain activity Not only that when we talk about things that are so big and are ignored by mainstream culture This is one that's just like that. You're talking about an endogenous human chemical Yeah, that not only is in us but is in thousands of different plants Like how many different plants contain DMT a huge number? I mean very prosaic ones like peas and you know Well, there's the main store That's what I was gonna say. The Australian national tree is actually illegal It's isn't that but the Jerusalem the the professor is from the University of Jerusalem I believe that any Shannon Where they were talking about they believe that that's what the story of the burning bush and Moses is so that is Mimosa with the DMT and Syrian rule with the monoamine oxidase inhibitor. In other words, it's it's ayahuasca But a Middle Eastern alternative of it doing the same thing We elect molecularly and isn't it possible in some way that the idea of the burning bush was them figuring out how to dry or extract DMT and very very likely very possibly right because they're talking about the burning bush producing God And it just so happens that this bushes the acacia trees incredibly common and super rich in DMT and it's all over the area And I should probably insert at this point that if you're at all familiar with the Masonic ritual You'll know that the acacia plant plays a central role. That's right. You're one of them one percent Mason characters Every now every now and then as insiders every now and then on Facebook Randall, I get accused of being a Freemason Hancock is a Freemason As though it explains everything I know lots of Freemasons I've spoken in Masonic lodges, but I'm an author and I shouldn't belong to clubs You know, I went to a few I went to a wedding that my friend Duncan Trussell was performing at for these two Satanists and like 2003 and to this day was One of the levies Anton LaVey or Stanton LaVey whatever is his son And his son got married Some young hedonist, you know and they call themselves Satanists and so Duncan performed at this wedding I went there to this day. I get fucking tweets about being a Satanist. So I can't join you a little club pal I'm one of your masons. I need to confess you Yes, you didn't realize this but I secretly initiated you. Oh my god. Oh, you're in Can you do that I sort of did sort of so you could get him in if you wanted to though, right if you know the people Oh, of course you even you Joe. I don't think so I Met a couple of masons. They're very cool. Well, most masons don't really understand the corpus of symbolism That's that they're sitting on top of I got to say that not to get off on the Freemasons But simply there's a mass of symbolism and that's the whole That's that's the thing that they're custodians of and most of them don't have a clue what it means but they're doing an important job by preserving this corpus of symbolism through the through the layout of the lodge the the meaning of every component in the lodge because it's a purely astronomical allegory and then you have the Masonic carpets and that's Where you have the whole story of the comet the flood. It's all there the acacia plant. It's all there It's all correct me from wrong, but it's it's all also an integral part of how Washington DC was designed Is that true? Yeah, I to some extent I haven't you know, I honestly haven't studied that What I've seen is that there's a there's a bunch of videos where you could watch it where they sort of describe how the layout You know is in some way some sort of sacred geometry I think what is based on Freemasons were massively involved in the construction of Washington as they were of many great cities the city I live in England has got you know Major Masonic architecture. So is it like people like me like my initial prejudice? I hear something like the masons like ah fucking dudes in a cult get out of here Leave me alone like we we assume that all groups of people that follow anything somehow or another wacky Masons in my opinion. They're largely a drinking club for men mainly. That's what it is But they can make special arrangements to bring women into a When I've given a talk in a lodge I've given talks in two or three lodges been asked to do so then they make a special ceremony to allow my wife Santa to come in because I won't go anywhere without Santa and So women can women can go in but then there are more there are others within masonry who are pursuing deeply esoteric Interests and exploring the mysteries and you can have incredible Conversations and facility. It's just another another group of people who you know are doing are doing their thing. It's not for me I wouldn't join I don't I would lose I think if I joined free masonry it would weaken me as an author I think I think I'm better able to comment on these things by not being a member of any such group. That's interesting Why do you think that well because I think I have to remain open to all possibilities And if I if I if I commit myself to a particular line, I don't commit myself to a particular religion I don't commit myself to a particular men's club either. I just which is what masonry is I I think if I commit that then but then ultimately I would become a spokesperson for that And I don't want to be that that makes a lot of sense considering your occupation and how important being open-minded has been to your Life, it's vital. It's absolutely without it. How could you have ever done fingerprints of the God? I could not you you have I mean and the thing the initial thing where you were to tell me about Ethiopia that place where they believe that the the Arkada Covenant Lays, which is one of the most bizarre ideas ever and that was my first book on a historical mystery It's the sign in the seal. It's a try and you need go into it like it's so interesting But I just I've always imagined you as a young guy Forced to sort of reconcile with this bizarre piece of evidence You've got these old men that have cataracts in their eyes like they're around radiation Sites and no one's allowed to go inside and see this thing and they claim they have the Ark of the Covenant in there And like what the fuck is in there? Was the beginning of a magic it was the beginning of a magical journey for me It's been a magical journey for all your fans to for guys like me man when I read fingerprints of the gods It was to me. It was one of those books I just couldn't put down and it was so mind-blowing and this is again was in the heart of my yeah Fingerprints was published in 1995 and magicians came out in 20 in in 2015 and I would say in that time The evidence when I made the case for a lost civilization and a global cataclysm in fingerprints of the gods I can't begin to account for the amount of Hostility and anger and rage that I generated in the academic community the idea was considered to be absolutely absurd 20 years later with magicians of the gods. It's not so absurd anymore. The evidence is mounting We have incredible evidence now for a global cataclysm in exactly the period that counts between 12,000 800 11,000 600 years ago And we have sites like go Becky Teppi. We have a redefinition of the Sphinx the whole area is just about to Explode in in in the future. We're on the edge I believe of a paradigm shift and this comet material is central to it What I really appreciate about your courage is that you've also had the courage to admit when you've made mistakes You're not you don't in any way pretend to be some sort of a bear of secret knowledge No one else possesses absolutely not a guru. I don't want to be anything like that. I'm a reporter That's that's what I am and I'm a reporter who's reporting on offbeat subjects and to some extent I'm an I'm an outsider. It's one of the talks I do now is about being a being an outsider I think there is a I think there is a place for outsiders in society. Well, I don't think you're an outsider I think you're an outsider from the established mainstream Ideas, I just think that I am not allowed the same. We're both we're both outsiders in that area I'm working in different fields to get into this But don't you think that these established channels that were so deeply grooved in distributing information those things have widened so wide now Well, you're getting you mean a professor could do a podcast like he could teach a class I mean you could write a book or he can do a podcast on a certain subject and like You're aware of Dan Carlin and that hardcore history podcasters. I just can't stop raving about but what he's done is brought historical accurate But really dramatic stories of real events that took place to millions Like, you know, that's just that no one's doing that like this is but it's not mainstream Well, what's more mainstream than being number one on the iTunes podcast list, which he is all the time What is more mainstream and he must be getting millions of downloads? It's part of the big change is taking place in our society that the old structures are being overthrown. They're being thrown away It's a very uncomfortable time. It's a very uncertain time It's a very exciting time right because we can build out of this something something amazing in the future The internet's had a huge part to play in it the fact that people can communicate with one another all around the world Well since I've had a web presence in the last I was late comer, but maybe two or two to three years ago I've been getting contacted by I mean professionals from around the world. I've got probably a dozen major ones I've Geologists who want to know more about an interesting you said earlier about debating, you know I'm always looking for somebody to debate about right I you know because I have questions and I'm thinking Maybe somebody even somebody who would disagree with me on something good still helped me answer some of the right right But I try to associate as much as possible and hang out with Professionals in the field and of course what I discover is that a lot of them are working in these things part-time almost Clandestinely without making it part of their you know, if I go on a field trip of geologists into the the flood lands None of them are really working on it full-time. It's all part-time, you know They're working for the government. They're working for the oil companies or you know, X Exploration mineral exploration whatever they're doing this research into geological catastrophes On their own time right but recently just last summer I got invited To actually present some of my research to the Atlanta Geological Society, which is the largest Society of professional geologists in the southeast So I jumped at the chance rather than you know And so I presented hoping that I would get challenged that somebody would say wait a second There's a flaw in your thinking here didn't happen. So did you make friends with some of these? Mainstream geologists. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean I've been knowing I mean when I just took a trip for in September spent ten ten days back out in the flood lands and I Had a geologist with me on that trip So, yeah, I'm getting to know more and more people who are working as well, you know I majored in geology and so I still Am in touch regularly with the head of the geology department I see her pretty much on a regular basis and have been keeping her apprised of some of my stuff and She has off offered to sponsor me at whatever point I think that I can pull it together as a dissertation. Mm-hmm But we'll see how that goes I mean my objective was to learn geology not to become a professional geologist I wasn't interested in working for the government or working for you know, the energy industry I had geological questions and that's why I majored in geology and you've walked the walk and in my opinion You know more about this stuff than ten fully PhD geologist. Yeah, you always freak me out So what what's what's fascinating to me about all this is that I think what you've done has been very measured You know everything you back up with facts and photographs and descriptions and disclaimers, you know, when you when you say well It's it is possible. You will go down other various paths. You're not dogmatic about these ideas But you've spent so much time going over this I don't know if there's another if there's a commensurate guy in mainstream archaeology That has been public about it the way you have been because if there is I feel like we probably would have heard about them Your podcasts have been the ones that we've done. They've been seen by millions of people They didn't listen to by millions of people. I mean the information is getting out there and making a real difference You're always gonna have the the guys like I think Michael Sherman is very important I'm not criticizing him but that knee-jerk Reaction to do something to mock something or put down something that's not mainstream like one of his tweets He said, you know what? Archaeology with evidence is and he wrote archaeology like why would you even tweet that? This doesn't even make any sense like that someone is not paying attention to your work But me all you do is focus on evidence. I'm reminded of the Shakespearean line me thinks the lady doth protest too much Why does he need to say that it's got the evidence? You know, it's like he tweeted like Fox News saying fair and balanced, you know, he's tweeting at you with this Yeah, meanwhile your entire book is based on photographic evidence. Yeah, and all the other various pieces of evidence I mean that you're acting documents Examining all these pieces of evidence. It's not these aren't things that you've invented These are actual real sites that you can look at I'm drawing inferences from them that they don't like that's the thing Well what Robert shock and guys like him are so important guys who have the courage who's a Boston University Professor absolutely the courage to look at the stones and say this is the product of water erosion Cute us to Robert shock as a Career academic geologist who's taken that risk and put himself out there and followed the evidence where it leads Another one is Danny Hillman not to a judge in Indonesia who's been responsible for the investigation of this extraordinary site at gunung padang Where work has been stopped since 2014 again. He's a highly credentialed geologist He's Indonesia's leading expert in mega thrust earthquakes But he's been looking at archaeology bringing his geological expertise to that so the things are changing We are finding we are finding academics who are willing to engage and willing to to discuss I I got into a very interesting Email correspondence with a guy called Daniel Lohmann at Baalbek but from the German Archaeological Institute Who's an architect and an archaeologist and he was very civil with me and I he answered my questions We went into it in depth. We had quite a long debate That's very refreshing that kind of thing wasn't happening 20 years ago Yeah, that is very refreshing now. What about those pyramids in Bosnia has that been what is what is the deal with that? Are those things I've been there. I know Sam Osmanagic personally Sam is the guy who's who's promoted the site I like Sam very much. I must say when I'm in his aura, I'm extremely convinced But when I when I look rationally at the at the so-called pyramids, I don't think they're pyramids I think they're hills I did spend with Sam showing me around I did spent three days in Bosnia looking at the so-called pyramid of the Sun the pyramid of the moon the love pyramid and so on and so forth I do see that a tourist industry has built up around this and it's a fabulously beautiful intriguing site in the massive beautiful Mountainous place, but they are hills. They are not pyramids Impression is given that there are tunnels passageways inside the pyramids. That's not true The passageways are about two two and a half kilometers away. They're very low-tech I I just don't I just don't see it and for that reason I did not cover the Bosnian pyramids and magicians of the gods I'm not gonna say they're not pyramids. I'm not gonna write a book saying that they're wrong But I they didn't excite me enough to justify devoting a chapter to them. There's much more exciting and important Archaeological discoveries that are being made like go back to tepi which need more space and there's some there's some pyramid like Structures or hills in China as well, right? There's thousands of pyramids in China Sian the province of Sian is just the moment you land there for if your aircraft you're seeing pyramids everywhere I've been you know that there there are certainly hundreds and hundreds of them Distributed across fields vanishing off into the distance in all in all directions They've been terraced and used as agriculture the local farmers grow grow crops on them I went there with Chinese archaeologists. They haven't excavated a single one not one They said we don't have this was nearly ten years ago. I was there They said they probably got the money now, but they said then they didn't have the money. They said we're an old country We don't mind if we wait 200 years to get the grips with this Christ and the famous tomb of the first emperor is part of this pattern It is also a pyramid. It has also not been excavated the terracotta army around it has been found the terracotta armies Oh, yeah, I see it was on display somewhere wasn't it where you can go and see it live Yeah, they did some kind of traffic. I'd want to see that thing. I'd want to look at those things What put a bizarre concept now these pyramids so this one that this this emperor was buried in that had the Terracotta army was that a pyramid as well. It is a period it is absolutely. It's a man-made pyramid The terracotta army was buried around its edges not in the pyramid itself So the army was there to protect him yeah to protect his soul into the afterlife seems to have been the seems to have been The idea and then there's a mythology that's come down that the that within the pyramid is a lake of mercury That there are mechanical devices in there Which will fire arrows at you if you go in that there's a whole story about how how intensely? Protected it is and up to this day. It's not been excavated. That's so crazy How could someone leave that alone and you know even major archaeological sites like Tiwanako in Bolivia for example? You'll find that only about two percent of the site has been excavated I don't know how we can draw inferences about the whole site from from a tiny little fragment fraction like that And that's the that's the problem. I think with archaeology, and it's why we have to you know consider another way We're looking at an image of the terracotta army now. Yeah in front of this pyramid, and it is Spectacular now that I think about it. I don't think that was on display anywhere I think maybe they had a couple of they brought some of them they came to the British Museum There were a number of museums, but it's so much bigger than I thought it was yeah Yeah, I mean there's I mean how many there's thousands yes thousands of these terracotta figures absolutely and this period was made out of what? Is it stoned around earth mainly? Okay, so they just sort of shaped the ground they just dug around yeah They brought in earth and turned it into a pyramidal mound over the but it wasn't it's not just it's not massive stone blocks It's not massive stuff. That's why they can grow crops on the sides of some of these pyramids How weird yeah, so they would build these giant mounds of dirt and then dig holes in them and support them Probably created the interior you know Subterranean as they were building the whole thing hmm over it, and they just stacked dirt on top of it Yeah, wow what a weird way to make a house Yeah, and then we have to consider this with you know with with Archaeological sites all all around the world is that any site may actually not be the product of just one culture But may have been reworked and worked over and used by many different cultures over this is different periods stunning to me I found out about this because of a friend of John Anthony West who was here with him He showed me he lives in China and who showed me some video of it, and I was like how do I not know about this? I had no idea there was this many of them also. Here's one that's exposed was this Controversial ancient pyramids of China that one looks exposed. It's not one of those blocky. Yeah Well that is a another thing about China that we just don't have a clue When we when we think about the the age and scale of things We're so silly. We've only been around since you know 1776 is when the country was established It's not really that long ago You're dealing with China you're dealing with literally thousands of years of civilization all Rising and falling and taking place and adapting and growing all in this one area That's still in our eyes in a lot of ways. It's kind of behind right. I mean they're behind environmentally They're behind when it comes to human rights consider this the Portuguese in the late 1400s Have rounded the Cape of Good Hope and they've entered the Indian Ocean in their little ships They've entered the Indian Ocean and they actually establish a huge Empire they go to Malacca they go all over the place. Okay, the seas are open to them if they had come 40 years earlier They would have encountered the Chinese treasure ships Ships that were 50 times larger than the little caravels that the Portuguese were were sailing in the past You know what the Chinese did at that time? They went through a period where they felt they just wanted to give gifts to people and they put together these huge fleets carrying incredibly precious gifts silks and and ceramics and they took them all around the Indian Ocean and they just gave them to people So off the coast of East Africa and in East Africa you can find remains of this pottery from this episode and then a Chinese Emperor came along and he closed the doors Burned all the boats shut everything down and didn't let anybody speak to China for 200 years. Whoa, what a dick Well, he felt it was time for the Chinese culture to turn inward Yeah And he they were afraid that they were that their ancient culture on one hand there might have been maybe a Allotable motive in that they were concerned that the ancient culture was going to get contaminated By too much contact with this new generate cultures from other places and that was a factor in it that the constant desire to maintain the current situation It's human. We have to say it's some kind of some kind of human nature. Yeah for sure I'd love to see some of these images of the yeah, let's look at the drone stuff from the chemist the chemist prairie and what? Please unless let's let's have a look at it. You got that This Chinese parents are still blowing my mind. They blow my mind as well. I can't believe they haven't been asked It's an eerie spooky scene I mean I recommend anybody to go to see and I'm just just it's incredible how many of them there are And how unexplained it all is and it's again it feeds into my general point is we don't remember our past What are we looking at here? Okay, let's let's can we pause so I can talk about what we're looking at Yeah, you look at this one that way you can hit the mic right in front of you, okay This is the beginning of it. Okay. What we're here's what we're like right up to you there We're looking at a place in Western Montana called chemist prairie And you see some hills in the foreground and you see a basin in the background, right? Okay, right here on top of this hill and down on the side here. You see that there are some coring operations Those are coring gravel because everything you're looking at here this whole landscape between the hills are these large masses of gravel trillions of tons of gravel Now what we're gonna do is we're gonna start sweeping around as the video plays and you're gonna notice down here a series of ripples Okay, I see that okay, and I'm gonna have Jamie pause in a second, but let's keep coming around Do you start seeing the ripples on the landscape? Let's pause right there right there. Let's pause now I wish I had a pointer but if you look up you're gonna see a flat piece of land like a tongue Coming out rounded. Yeah, Jamie's That's it get your laser that's a Delta that's a Delta, you know what a Delta is You ever heard of a Delta? It's when a river comes into a body of water and it's carrying sediment and because the river is moving along swiftly It's carrying the sediment but when it comes into the standing body of water It slows down and it drops its sediment. It builds a Delta the whole city of Portland For example is built on a giant Delta, right? New Orleans is built on a Delta, right? Okay, so what we're seeing there is a Delta and then in front of it. We're seeing rippled landscape Let's keep coming around Jamie and so rippled landscape that looks exactly like the beach looks. Yeah keep coming around with us It's fractal because this this is the whole mystery of this that this happens at a scale of inches on beaches and the scale of hundreds of feet here Stop again. Okay, Lord now right here in the middle. You see a massive Delta Yeah, you know like a big tongue splayed out and then right down here you start seeing the ripples and there's a farmhouse You see the farmhouse there? Now those ripples are the tallest ones are about the height of a five-story building. Whoa How Bizarre keep okay. Let's keep keep sweet swinging around stop it stop this for a second Um, if you don't mind, no, I don't know these things. They're the size of a five-story building What is that like 70 feet or something like that 50 feet? Okay, so that's those are 50 feet high and How much water does we'll get to that? Let's see. Let's see the rest of it. These are just dirt, right? They're there. Well, if you dig into one what you're gonna find is there a there are massive Okay, let's pause again. Look at this. This is crazy. This is totally crazy This is one of the craziest things you'll ever see This is these ripples the repeated ripples in an area where there's nothing else like it. This is the fingerprints of the flood That's what it is. Wow Where can someone look at this how does someone look at this in real, you know this right now this is what we're looking at This is this video Well, my colleague Brad young Did this with his drone? And I think he's got it on the website Geocosmic rack is this being played in the YouTube video right now. Okay. All right So the YouTube people are cool with it if you're listening on iTunes Find it find it on YouTube, but it's worth looking at is what my point this is this is mind-blowing shit And I think I think you made the crucial point Joe Which is which is that we can understand what this is because we can see it on any beach We can see how water flows receding across a sandy medium will produce ripples But here they're on this unbelievable scale where they're hundreds of feet long and 50 feet high where they dwarf houses and they're lying All across and that what that tells us is that a huge water flow went across this plane and did this you will see it from This perspective above which is a rare perspective unless you're in a plane or a helicopter or something You get a chance to look at it this way You really get a better sense of what it is if you were on the ground there You'd probably say oh look at all the hills. It's hard to say you don't quite get the impression No, we did visit this this location Um and in to that day it was overcast So you don't quite get the effect like you do when you've got when a low Sun angle Mm-hmm really helps you to see what what's going on in the landscape. Can I ask you? Is there a dispute to this? Is there no? No, nobody disputes it Nobody this is from a flood not anymore Wow no in fact it was this JT party nobody disputes that it was caused by massive water flows Okay, but those same people would still not buy into the notion that there was this one humongous flood Okay, so they think it's an accumulative effect, but that this was all created This was the bottom of Lake Missoula, right? Yes, and this is supposed to actually represent the draining of Lake Missoula, right? Whereas I argue from a number of different reasons that this is the filling I was ooh, I have a friend of mine who his friend lives in Montana and they found a dinosaur on his ranch Oh, wow. Yeah, like really recently We should come back to that because there's a connection here Yeah, the well the Great Western Inland Sea all that at that area there was I mean, this is a crazy place at one point In time it still is I'll give you yeah It's a different way The the water here Joe that did this the way to visualize this is to again begin to think of tsunami You have to think tsunami because it's tsunami is the closest scale of water flow that we've experienced in modern times. No River flood Has even approached this right? No, no flood in any floodplain nothing that we can put into perspective Right the closest the closest we can get to it is a tsunami But even there you got a picture the tsunamis that we've experienced in the last decade and a half and you know in Indonesian Japan when they made landfall those tsunamis were roughly between 20 and 50 feet depending on where you were Relative to the to the oncoming wave and how far distance you were from it here What you have to visualize is a tsunami sweeping over the land. That's over a thousand feet deep That's that's what happened here And we know that because we can trace the the high water marks on the hillsides are clearly left The high water marks are clearly etched into the into the hillsides So we now know Based upon the study of the ripples and the water here was moving down It's filling this basin It's rushing in in a great tsunami from the north of fresh water melt water coming off the ice sheet And it's sweeping down over this land at probably two or three hundred million cubic feet per second Which is an inconceivable amount of water. It's it's many times in excess of every river Flow on earth flowing today all at once. It's it's beyond that many times 10 or 20 times beyond that one of the trippier things about water is that water in in itself? It's kind of fractal in some sort of a weird way when you look at the actual molecules of water It's almost like we don't we don't distinguish it as being a fractal thing because we see it as like this moving flow But if you're looking at the actual molecules of water a cup of water with you that you dip your fingers in Which is seemingly completely innocuous becomes this massive element of change when the volume is a thousand feet high and Rolling over with massive amounts of weight behind it. It's that same stuff massive amounts of weight enough enough Very bizarre that it's actually causing seismic Responses it's only imagine. Yeah, how much weight are you talking about this? I can create these 50 foot high walls But this what's fascinating to me is that we don't have we we don't have a scale like in our minds as a reference like the difference between that little cup and these gigantic waves that you see that surfers travel by jet ski to get to you know, the off of Believe it's Mexico right you're seeing those massive waves They go way out miles out to get to these crazy waves and we ride them in there like 60 70 feet high Like that's that's the comparison almost like a glass of water to those waves and then that to the scales up It scales up it scales up and at a certain point it can change the whole story of civilization almost doesn't compute Like you can intellectualize it but it's almost not computing one of these flood flows here is three orders of magnitude greater than the largest measured modern flood in other words over a thousand times greater in terms of peak discharge or volume You would have to scale up at least a thousand times greater than any modern measured flood To get to the smallest really of these flows here because this is this is just one Read one place one locale of on five states where you can trace the literally the the an ocean of fresh water sweeping across the entire Pacific Northwest Pretty much washing away anything that was there. It's almost like we have a defense mechanism built in where we ignore How vulnerable we really are like we put it maybe that's one of the reasons why people are so reluctant to really go deep into Studying asteroidal impacts I think or or even to pay attention to this stuff like that. This could happen And this is I mean Those are not two separate subjects because this is the result of the comet impacts on the on the ice cap This is this is the this is why I feel that the research in this field is so vital. Okay, right there Yeah, now here notice this is crazy. That's a beach But it's a it's a beach. It's a beach for giant monsters. Yeah what it is You can see in this here that you've actually got three massive currents Converging here. Do you see that? Oh, yeah, right. You've got a massive current coming in that would be From the West and then we're standing we would be standing looking down current Of course this the the drone I'm guessing here is about 200 feet in Elevation so the top of the water was another eight to nine hundred feet above this perspective right here Mm-hmm, and it's moving very very fast and it's sweeping down into a river valley That's down in those mountains you see in the distance and from there It's being carried down and joining up other equally as large floods coming in from other valleys And all of this is happening at once and it's covering five states basically And that's just one region that's being affected by this sudden catastrophic melting of the ice sheets We are dealing with the largest flood that ever occurred on earth. It's as simple as yeah, this is insane I mean, it's insane to look at it happened here in North America, and it happened twelve thousand eight hundred years ago, and its story Has yet to be fully told Isn't it possible there was something larger before like the 65 million year ago one that hit the Yucatan like what? You know what kind of an impact of that? Well it actually would because if it if that happened twelve thousand years ago We wouldn't be having none of us would be here. Yeah, that'd be a wrap right? Yeah, that was a single large object About six miles wide that was that was a much more devastating impact than the impacts of twelve thousand eight hundred years ago But nevertheless those impacts of twelve thousand eight hundred years ago We're really really bad And they did stuff like this and anything that was in the way of this of these massive flows of water Would have been rubbed completely from the story so you all make sense Here's the thing that the Michael Shermers don't get when you understand the extent of this the scale of this phenomena and the severity the inconceivable severity of this in the aftermath of an event like this what would remain of a of a city a village a refrigerator No, not a goddamn thing nothing nothing What nothing would exist in the aftermath of this and most things wouldn't exist I mean you find like an old refrigerator or a car up on blocks and someone's backyard in the south and it's you know The 1970s and the the rot has gotten into a frame The nature is gonna eat it up nature is eating it up just in a couple of decades Right. What's it gonna be like in a couple thousand years? We should not we should not be surprised about how little we really know about our past This is also a comfort game with archaeology. Oh, yeah, we've got the past all worked out We understand it here is what we teach in schools. This is what our friends in the media report This is the fact it's not the facts. We know nothing It's there's been so much lost so many missing pieces of the puzzle that we're you know Desperately trying to stitch together and it's important I think that we actually do get some clarity on Events like this because we still live on this planet and we have kids and we have a future and we want to Hope we want to hopefully we want to find one of those big boys comes our way Well, that's that's right. But again, I come I come down to this which is which is that we are not Dealing with gloom and doom and the end of the world We're dealing with a problem that humanity should be confronting. We should not be sticking our heads in the sand We should be confronting this problem And that's why I support the work of the comment research group because they are the only people right now who are confronting this problem And really getting to grips with it. We should all confront I mean, we should absolutely all support them and confront it because this if something like this can happen once What's it's what what really makes sense is how many stories of floods? There are in ancient times and how many parallels there are there are and how many there are from North America? Oh dozens and dozens. Yeah, it was the Caitlin The Indian artist who spent 30 years or so pre-civil war. I think maybe a decade after the Civil War Painting Indians of different tribes and he wrote a book called last rambles amongst the North American Indians Very very interesting book But what really is interesting to me when I read the book years and years ago was his final conclusion to the book He says after all of these different customs and traditions that have been handed down amongst these tribes They all have one thing in common. They all have a memory or a story of a gigantic world destroying flood And he and he this has included tribes down into Central America that he visited I believe the Americas are The repository that the Native American peoples who have been subjected to so much destruction over the years They in their mythology their traditions their memories. They keep more of this than almost anybody else It's really it's really tragic what has happened in the Americas from the time of the Spanish conquest The deliberate destruction of knowledge that the terrible horrendous abuses that Native American people suffered They are our wisdom keepers. They are the people who passed down the oral tradition and and remembered the past So not only do we have cataclysms wiping the human memory But we ourselves actively get involved in the human memory and wipe it We rub it out the burning of the Maya codices by the Spanish friars thousands and thousands God knows what was in those documents Yeah, you know We might have had a whole other story about ourselves if we could have had access to those but instead we're this destructive Cannibalistic species that just goes and Smashes everything to bits It's a weird impulse that human beings have is when they move into an area and they take over it one of the things they Like to do is destroy their icons destroy everything what's going on with Isis and all these ancient Buddhist structures Thousand-plus year old beautiful sculptures absolutely. They're blowing them up. Yeah, you know and Yelling praise God while they're doing it. It's really very bizarre It's a very bizarre inclination that we have but it's so it's almost like we don't want people to know You know it's a bizarre almost human instinct to wipe out the past and just to constantly keep moving Or is there some trauma is there some collective trauma some deeply deeply suppressed memory? Could be that we that we can't quite confront That's that's exactly the thought I had because I think that's the one way one of those Areas where Valakovsky finally really nailed it was yeah mankind in amnesia That somehow we carry this the trauma because once you begin to get Get a handle and you get to get the picture of these events as they occurred and did occur and would have been experienced by our ancestors You've got to understand. What would it be like to see your entire world? completely obliterated Starting over again from basically a barren mud field hmm You know that's essentially what these people were faced if they lived at all and so Because here we are but you know again the evidence is emerging of major cultural collapse If you had a guess what percentage of the population of human beings just is obviously just a guess But how many do you think we're wiped out? half of them Three-quarters of them. I don't think that would be unrealistic No It doesn't seem like it would be and if it was that number and those people that's enough for people to survive And if it was that number boy, what a strange fucking mythical Past they would have the other the other thing to bear in mind is in the world today our world We have an advanced civilization America, you know Germany the the Industrialized technological countries and we have coexisting with them in South America in the Namibian desert we have hunter-gatherers So the the notion that hunter-gatherers and an advanced civilization might coexist right in the same epoch of history should not be straight To us because we're doing that today and that's what I would suggest happened before twelve thousand eight hundred years ago before the cataclysm of twelve thousand eight hundred years ago that there was a Fairly advanced civilization that was capable of mapping and exploring the world creating gigantic works of architecture and it coexisted with hunter-gatherers and who were the ones who survived the cataclysm The answer is the ones who survived the cataclysm were the hunter-gatherers Not the sophisticated peoples a few of them survived and they then settled amongst the hunter-gatherers and tried to transfer some of their knowledge and skills to them and it's the same today if we if we were to have a repeat of the younger dry ice Cataclysm today, I don't think that people from Los Angeles or London would be amongst the leading survivors I think the survivors would be people like the hunter-gatherers of the Amazon rainforest because they're in the business of surviving That's what they do. It's not a mystery to them. It's not even a problem. They do it they do it all the time they would they would carry the human story forward and 10,000 years from now their descendants would be telling a myth about how there was once a great Civilization on this planet so advanced that they could even go to the moon. They could fly around the planet They could speak to one another on other sides of the earth But they did something wrong. They they fell out of harmony with the universe They ceased to wear their prosperity with moderation. That's actually a line from Plato about Atlantis Wow, and the universe slapped them down So there would be a differential survival rate those who were I would say that those who are more Technologically advanced are less likely to survive because they depend on a complex interrelated network of skills and any individual on his or her own Most of them well you're a different joke because you do know how to survive but a lot of people don't know I barely know how to survive Most likely you've worked at it. Yeah, but I'm not that good at it But most of us most of us haven't even worked at it at all We haven't got a clue let me fucking open everybody's eyes to all these people that think that you just go out there and shoot animals and stay alive good fucking luck You're you're probably screwed if you have a rifle even if you have a rifle you're probably screwed if you have a bow and arrow You're gonna fucking starve to death right? It's extremely difficult. Yes to get close You know and yet hunter-gatherers for thousands and thousands of years have succeeded in doing that like the Bushman of the Kalahari I think there was less humans and more animals right to think that's also part of the rub Okay So we're dealing with just one of the terrible things we've done is taking These giant swaths of land and made them entirely inhabitable for wildlife like cities Like you when how many people grow food in the city? What is the percentage is it even one tenth of one percent of people in the city grow their own food probably? It's probably not even that so you have these massive essentially deserts with where no wildlife exists other than predatory species like coyotes and ravens and things like that that take and then you You go out from there, and then you have these vast farmlands Yeah The only benefit of the vast farmlands is the amount of deer that exists now is greatly more than when Columbus landed But it's because they've almost become an agricultural animal. It's almost like they're almost a domesticated animal They're a free wild domesticated animal like I have a friend who has a farm in Iowa and when you go there It's it's very strange because he's got these wild Giant 300 pound forest horses running around his backyard. I mean they're fucking everywhere There's all these giant deer and when we were there. It's what's called the rut so all these they're very horny So the big bucks who usually hide they show themselves I'm like this is a crazy place like there's all these wild animals that exist along with people and even in a game-rich Place like that it's incredibly difficult to get to one you have to have vegetables you have to have your own vegetables So let's imagine a situation where all the resources of our cities all the yeah all the amenities all the infrastructure are gone Most of us are fucked. I would say radically our I would say in fact our civilization Which appears so strong is actually very very fragile extremely just a little push It's like when you look out the window, and you're like wow. That's the outside no That's a piece of glass. You're outside. It's not that piece of glass, and you're outside You know the effortless it is it just seems Impenetrable because you know you pull the shades tight, and you set your alarm clock. Yeah, sleep. You're sleeping next to glass Like it's hilarious you feel confident. You're sleeping next to a piece of fucking glass There's this incredible complacency and and arrogance yeah of modern civilization that we are the apex and pinnacle of the human story that we're the best That's ever come and and and that's a danger mythologically That is a very dangerous place to be when you start imagining yourself as the apex and the pinnacle of everything That's precisely when the universe reminds you that you are not that at all yeah, it's a very weird Existence that we have well We just sort of look at how things are right now, and we can't imagine things being any different No matter what whether it's people that have to come to The realization that they've been injured like someone breaks their leg and all of a sudden It just doesn't compute like how come I can't walk anymore Well your reality is now shifted and this reality that we have here with this fairly healthy earth Could shift at any moment that the Yellowstone volcano is the one that's been freaking me out the most over the last few years Another big issue yeah An interesting parallel would be if we look at small or what happens in smaller catastrophes like we've seen today when we look at the at For example when Katrina hit and hit New Orleans right it was almost as if the human species separated into two subspecies you had one group of people that rose to the occasion and Did heroic things they organized and they saved people Spontaneously you know because the government was Conspicuously absent for five days the first five days of the Katrina disaster and here you had a major flooding of New Orleans And and you had people spontaneously organizing and performing these heroic actions of saving their fellow man and and doing just Stupendous things superhero type things, but then you had another segment to the population It just went completely barbaric and you had mass rapes and you know smashing of businesses and looting and and and just people running in wild complete unrestrained gangs just and just Committing violent acts at random so And America the richest country on earth did not manage that crisis well No I mean it was very and that was a little crisis by comparison with what we're talking about Then when Kanye West go on TV George Bush does not like black people. I don't remember that but yeah, George Bush I think it was on day four George Bush flew over an Air Force one and looked out the window wave Yeah, yeah, give people hope but there's there's a lesson lessons in those kinds of events sure Yeah, we're not prepared We can we have to extrapolate from that and and you know if you go back and we what you know I oftentimes is a thought exercise think how how would we respond if we knew that there was a high probability Of a younger dryas type event or series of events impending in our future. What would you do start drinking? Well, it all depends on lead time right? It all depends on lead. What if it's a 10-day lead time? Like you're not gonna be able to shoot a rocket up there Again unless exactly go hard go hard to the end yeah But 10 years or 20 minutes then we can do some stuff then we can do some stuff The real scary thing is there's two scary things one If you survived because you're like fuck You know if you if you really did survive and everybody else was jacked and also you're dealing with some mad max type reality Where people are starving to death and they're very desperate and they become almost like animals that's entirely inside the realm of possibility Well, that's what we learned from Katrina or the other terrifying possibility is that you leave the future of civilization up to those other people Is that they survived and they have kids and their kids survive and somehow or another somewhere along the line We get better and better at understanding our place here, which is what I think has happened Yeah And all it would take is one I mean This is as much as people are complaining right now as much as there's riots in the streets because or excuse me Protests in the streets some riots apparently but over the president elect what this time is it represents the greatest time in history When it comes to safety when it comes to knowledge access to information the way we understand each other I don't think it's ever been better as far as long as we know we have Everything at our feet. Yeah, there's there's incredible potential in modern civilization the but the problem is that There's also very rigid mind control the way that our societies work is it's turning people into drones People people brought up to believe that their only purpose in existence is production and consumption That the people forced to fit into a sort of narrow place in the machine mass media beaming You know messages at us at us all the time I even the concept of democracy is observed when you don't when you don't have complete Transparency when there are secrets when things are hidden How can the people vote you know with a clear with a clear-minded note if a lot is being hidden from them? That's not democracy democracies in fact invest in in mind control most unfortunate development well I Wonder how long it's gonna take before the rigid mindsets that are in place right now and this idea of this resistance to change that we were talking about when it comes to science when it comes to the accepting this Asteroidal impact theory and I think that exists in politics. I think it exists in religion I think it exists socially the way we approach relationships and friendships and just all of it is evolving in front of our eyes I was watching a movie last night Not another teenage movie. Is that what it is that was called and I was live tweeting it so smoking pot and writing and Sometimes I just like to have the TV on and not listen to it Just just sometimes I like to like see some things when I'm just writing things sometimes I know that last night. I chose to do it that way and I just got so enamored in this weird movie from 2001 this is a the movie felt like a time machine. It's like I was Watching this culture that does not exist anymore. It's one of those like Teenager movies were like in college and they're drinking There's a lot of when naked women and really racist sexist humor And it's really crude and goofy and stupid and I'm like this is so bizarre because they this doesn't exist anymore And this kind of film like this is like this is like Al Jolson with blackface on or something and in a way It's like a cultural time machine Like you get to go and for a brief moment see like this comedy that somebody concocted in 2001 which seems so recent but it's such a in that film you get evidence of this weird cultural change I shouldn't say weird Massive cultural change that's happened as far as the way we're allowed to joke around about things I'm just racist shit in that movie like racist and sexist shit and Violence like men punching women in the face and shit like that You just can't really do an accommodate today. Mm-hmm. And that's only 15 years ago And what what is it gonna be like if we can avoid? Getting hit by a rock blowing ourselves up Yellowstone blowing up in our face if we can keep going I think we're on a great path. I think regardless of what we're gonna think about the president elect and I think we're on a great Path it's a hazardous past a path. It's a it's a path where the future is not at all certain but but humanity is at one of those Moments one of those crossroads where you kind of stand on the edge of an abyss and and you don't quite know What lies ahead and we can take a really great path out of this or we can take a really horrible path Right, and I think the key issue is that we do actually have choice. It doesn't have to be that way I see a lot of positive a lot that's positive out there out there in the world. I do think people are waking up I think they are questioning old structures They're refusing to put up with the bullshit any longer more and more people are doing that's happening in the realm of politics It's happening in the realm of dealing with the big corporations. It's happening in the realm of investigating the past We're just not going to be told what to think anymore. That's encouraging But then on the other side There are huge efforts being put precisely into making people think in certain ways whether it's the advertising industry Whether it's political messages, and so we have to be aware of that and it could go it could go down the drone path I mean like the be the beehive path which would be wide even bother to be human if your society is turning you into a worker drone and a Beehive life existence or it could go down an expansion of consciousness and and and a realization of the incredible Beautiful potential of the human race. I honestly feel like that's where it's going. I'm I'm optimistic. I'm very optimistic. Well. That's beautiful to hear because this is a time like I was watching the John Oliver show It's a great show on HBO very funny guy and it's very left-wing Leaning as is his show, but they had this fuck 2016 thing where they were just naming off all the horrible things that happened in 2016 I and then just saying goodbye to this terrible year and like Yeah, but a lot of good shit happened this year, too There's a lot of fantastic discoveries a lot of interesting observations a lot of people learned a lot of things in 2016 as well, and I think that and quite a number of American states have made cannabis legal Yes, that's I think you know that's a huge development. It's it's it's also a big It's gonna be a big factor in our cultural evolution. It really will well It was a big factor in the 60s It was a huge factor in effect what happened you had a very closed conservative society And then you had an outside shock in the form of the psychedelic drugs that came in and completely stirred up everything in art and music and fashion and even into scientific concepts of our place in the universe and time and space and in in so many ways that had just a major impact on the direction that our society went and What would be the equivalent today or in our near future in terms of an outside shock? That would suddenly wake people up would be another event another tunguske event and based upon everything that I've seen it would suggest that Events like that are going to happen and probably within our lifetime and when it does happen Especially if the message of the story has been out and enough people have heard it 5% of the people or 10% of the people are aware that there is this major impending Potential paradigm shift and then we have an event like that an event like tunguske 1908 I think that's all it would take because the the magnitude of that event would have been such that it occurred today And you had anywhere from a million to two million people instantly wiped out or a whole city instantly annihilated From a thing from a shot from space what effect would that have on on the planetary consciousness? And which with this latest exercise NASA coming late to the party finally seems to be thinking about you know that what happened I only see what happened if LA is hit by you know a 350 foot diameter right and that's a comment is because Well when that when the the probability models for a tunguske type event were first laid out in the 50s and 60s and into The 70s it was pretty much Determined that it was like something that would happen once a millennium Once every couple of millenniums then it sort of got contracted to once every few centuries You know it may be that it's actually much more like one or two a century or maybe even perhaps Clustered events where you may have three or four or half a dozen of those type events occurring over a very short window of time But an event like that happening not one that would be caused the extinction of civilization by any means But an event like that that could you know wipe out a thousand square miles of landscape completely In an instant would have a major effect. I think on The people of this planet it would focus minds it would focus minds in a way that nothing else would and I it's not to me Is it pessimistic to say that might be what it's going to take or is it just realistic? I don't know well I think it's like the the massive impact versus the slow trickle effect I mean is it going to happen eventually or is it going to happen in one? Gigantic swoop because of an event like a Asteroidal impact where it kills a bunch of people and we wake up to the fragility of our existence But either way it's a waking up of humanity and that is in process that is happening that is in process now Look as a as a Brit observing. What's been happening in America as an outsider? I'm enormously encouraged by the legalization of cannabis movement that is that is taking place here And and and what it and what it all means sure I like to smoke a joint, but this is not about getting high It's not about recreation what this is about is Recognizing the sovereignty of adults to make decisions over their own bodies their own health and their own consciousness while doing no harm to others That's what it's about and that's a really fucking important issue that is for me That is the most important issue because if we live in a society that is not prepared to recognize Adult sovereignty over one's own body and one's own consciousness Then that cannot be a free society in any meaningful way And so I applaud the people of America in those states who have voted for full legalization That's a brilliant thing to do and that's going to have an impact around the world because the war on drugs all the Ideology and lies about cannabis are all going to be proved wrong We're going to know that the Emperor wears no clothes that you can legalize cannabis and civilization does not fall apart as the war on Drugs Lobby have been telling us for ages It's going to it's going to change everything and it's a beautiful thing because it's the American people whereas the American state America as a Governmental state presence on the world stage has been the dark force behind the war on drugs so it's It's a for me a beautiful thing that it's the American people state by state who are winding that back and saying We will not put up with this shit anymore. I think what you were talking about earlier is really important to we're talking about different factions of our Civilization are creating to this day. They're still creating Disinformation and still trying to mislead people, but I think that goes to what we're talking about before where it's a system and systems Protect themselves and I think that they develop almost a consciousness of their own. It's scary in a way Yeah, yeah bureaucracies armed bureaucracies. They've got a kind of personality Well, even when there's no financial stake in it There's just a social stake like what you're seeing right now with the left versus the right Like there's some people like my friend Wanda Sykes just got booed offstage at something last night apparently What she went on some anti-Trump rant and then and people got super upset at her there's these systems that are in place this this is this what almost like Wanting to fight like it's not It sets us up in this bizarre team mentality where this left protects its ideas of the future and the right protects its ideas And I'm watching these people go at it back and forth on social media and it's toxic And I don't like to use that term because it's so compromised by you know toxic Sexuality or toxic masculinity so many uses of that word in our culture But I think that this desire to fight with each other and be deeply unpleasant Yeah, really horrible hurtful ghastly things that you see it's so often and really I mean vile and from the left too as well as the right the left is Exactly and I think that we have to resist the urge to fight I think this is when people push too far on the left That's when the alt right emerges when people push too far on the right That's when the left comes up and you know and that's when you know Kent State emerges You have all these weird factions duking it out that have so much in common Yeah, and a lot of times the things that they don't have in common It's either because of an ignorance or it's because of an ideological dispute or a lack of communication And I think of those three things are in place at least open lines of communication, which is also fostered by marijuana get these people Talking openly and vulnerably about these things and you find out that a lot of our misgivings and our misunderstandings about each other are just misconceptions Miscommunications and we probably even if we disagree on things I have friends that I disagree on a lot of stuff with but we're very close Yeah, because we're you're allowed to have different opinions of course. That's what makes the world interesting It doesn't have to be we hate each other because we can listen to somebody else's opinion with empathy rather than with Yeah, you know hatred or or anger we have to we're too. It's too attractive to be on a team like the fucking masons Yeah, it is man. It's it's too attractive. It's too attractive, and we'd love I mean we love city versus city We love that we love when you know Chicago's gonna take on Cleveland. Fuck you We love that the tribal is the tribal thing we you know we've not really evolved out of that We've changed our social structures, but we're still tribal tribal mentality we should make nationalism is just tribalism writ large That's really is just like us religions just to cult with a lot more people. Yeah Exactly yeah, should we look at one more yeah, we could look at as many as you want man. Oh roll the party What do you got yeah? Let's let's see the next one back to the flood This is the place that I didn't get to take Graham that I really okay wanted to okay I really wanted to take you here. Let's see it. Let's see it so you're gonna see it second best okay This is the potholes Shit look at that. This is crazy this Well, we're looking at folks that people were just listening in You have to go to the YouTube now because this is insanity This is as close like and not for a dummy like me to look at something like that and then go oh fucking Yeah, that's definitely a river a river carve that Okay, what you're looking at there is a gigantic Extinct set of cataracts like you would find it Niagara Falls, but to use Graham's term writ large We're looking at a ridge We're looking east the tsunami wave that swept down over these four states one branch of it swept off to the west This particular branch of it was 400 feet deep when it hit this ridge And what it did was it spilled over the ridge and down here in the foreground you see the modern-day, Columbia River From the top of the ridge where you see the the the agriculture and the landscape down to the rivers about a thousand feet Wow, so you basically have to picture you've got this huge sheet of water three to four hundred feet deep It's rushing over and it finds a low little the lowest spot within this ridge And that's where it starts focusing its energy and as it does it begins to just strip away The rock now what you're looking at here is this cataract complex is about five miles across and The water came and you see you've got those kind of curved finger lakes at the top and there's tunnels Those are potholes. That's insane. Hot holes are formed by underwater turbulence And in a flood this swiftly moving with this much turbulence You literally have vorticular eddies high intensity high amplitude high energy Underwater tornadoes literally underwater tornadoes now these underwater tornadoes are typically in this case about a half a mile wide Oh my god, you're spinning at a high rate of speed and they're right there They're probably 600 feet deep Because the water pouring over the ridge is at least 200 and you can see what it's done to the bedrock Anybody listening you gotta what you got to look at this you have to look at this and then listen to the scale This is this is a gigantic scar in the landscape of which there are hundreds Around this this the exact location Randall. This is potholes cataract, right the exact location Somebody wants to get to it which we were in Washington State still. Yes, we're in Washington State central, Washington It's gonna be right on the Columbia River Just below Wenatchee. Okay, where we saw that where we saw that huge that huge erratic Yes, giant 18,000 ton boulder brought there in chained in an iceberg an iceberg Floating on the flood carry an ice bag the size of an oil tanker carrying an 18,000 ton boulder carried on the flood grounds 700 feet up a valley side Rest there as the flood waters recede the ice melts away and the boulder is left sitting there We're gonna look at a picture of that boulder in a second. What are the people back in this part of the country? What do they think about this? Well, you know, they're only just catching on to what they're sitting on top of Jesus The first time I went out here in 98 there was the the the ice age floods institute and I went to their only Location which was a which was in the better business bureau in in Moses Lake, Washington And it was they had one room in the back of this better business But or no chamber of commerce chamber of commerce and there was two elderly ladies in there who are basically the the overseers of the group now there's about two dozen chapters and Every year there's several guided field trips Led by geologists who are studying this in their off time and I've been on a number of these just to participate and get the The access to the geologists in order to pick their brains But this is this is very close to Wenatchee, Washington. So if anybody's wanting to find this on Google Earth This is a Google Earth image now what we're gonna do before we leave the Google Earth image I was gonna explain that you've got those you got those see those lakes those there's meandering lakes up What you got a picture is you've got a sheet of water coming and as it's coming over this ridge It's beginning to selectively erode into fault lines and cracks within the bedrock Can you picture that the water is gonna naturally try to go into those low spots where there's cracks and fissures? And it'll start going from a sheet into channeling Mmm, what goes from sheet to a channel then then that spills over the ridge and in the middle you see this It's called a rock blade see that the rock blade is that that that yes, that's it right there separating the two alcoves If the flood had continued for another few days that rock blade would have been gone and you would have had a single alcove up there Now in the next as this proceeds what we're gonna do is we're gonna go down and we're gonna be right at the head of The rock blade right there. Yeah right there. We're standing right there So now you're gonna get to see as the drone is about to take off. You're seeing the landscape We're looking to the east in the direction of those Finger Lakes And I guess the soundtrack Is it not playing in the sound? No, there we go. I hear it a little takata in and fugue and D minor Ooh Okay, and the landscape opens up so you're on that rock blade. We're on the rock blade right there Now you can begin to see the scale of this thing that we were just seeing from Google Earth Well now the way when you describe it I mean, I would have just looked at it and go wow, that's kind of cool looking I would have never have thought see all that was obviously created by water pouring through That's the problem is because we haven't had the scale of perception. It took Brett's 25 years to put the pieces together Well also we haven't been able to take these sort of high resolution photographs on drones right above it till recently Yeah, that's that's it gives us a whole other insight I mean it used to be a thousand dollars an hour to get up there in a helicopter now You can fly a drone around, you know with a phone. Yeah, exactly GoPro on it right here in the middle ground You see that big hole. That's about 200 feet in diameter That's that's a pothole that was created by this swirling vortex of Massively turbulent water. Holy shit. This is incredible You know, they're in other words the evidence is all over the landscape Staring us in the eyes and it's only in the recent years that it started to make sense Where we've evolved the the eyes to be able to see this and so now by going out here with a drone I've been over this landscape several times in a small plane to see it from that perspective But now like he just said like Graham just said now we've got a drone It can go up and see it from a whole different perspective And and now you can see see the see the man standing right down there on the rock No, you see all that little dude. Yeah Yeah, that little that little dude is six feet tall. He's not that little mean on the picture. He's little no no I'm sure he's a regular sized person. He's actually only four inches in height It's an illusion. What's to me stunning? I mean, this is really beautiful and cool and everything like that But what's really stunning is the initial picture where it becomes so obvious that above picture We see the farmland and that just it's so obviously cut cut Sliced out of the landscape. Let's see the rest of it then as As the drone flies over. Yeah, so and then we have what's called classic scab land You see all these mounds these kind of lumps. That's what what are the scabs on the scab land? That's why it's called scab land. And again, it's flooding that causes it plucking Differentially plucking material off the surface. Mmm Wow This is incredible. And then there's water remaining. Yeah, they filled filled the potholes. Yeah There you get a sense. Oh my god. There you get a sense of the rock blade Well, there you get a sense of what the volume of water must have looked like when it was rushing through there Right and see this is just holy shit. We've looked at two features now camis prairie and potholes cataract We could sit here for the next 10 hours looking at dozens and dozens of these mega features And you'll look at there's a whole bar. This is a gravel bar Over there. Okay, see the giant ripples on it. You see those? Yeah I've never seen those reported in the literature It may be that nobody's ever really seen them before or no one's ever paid attention Nobody's ever paid attention, but there they are So how what is mainstream science used to describe this this sort of or mainstream archaeology used to describe these features should be geology Well, can I say archaeology? Yeah, what would they so they believe this is catastrophic flooding as well? I just think it's a slower they think it's lots of small catastrophic floods They're not not one not one big catastrophic flood and how what kind of timeline are these geologists putting on us? Oh two or three thousand years. Yeah, and why do they think that well because of the the ice-damned model And how much time it would take see it gets complicated and and because until the comet research There was no credible source of Heat that could melt that amount of ice and cause that now that's the new factor that's come into the equation Now you look at look at the people standing on the cliff edge there the edge of the rock But do you see them down? Yeah. Yeah, so now you get the sense of scale What would survive again in the aftermath not that dude something? No, not that dude Yeah, this is a crazy place man, it's crazy to look at It's just so when you were looking above it like even here I mean you get a sense of it, but if you had just showed this to me quite honestly I probably wouldn't have pieced that together But when you look at it the original image, it's so blatantly obvious, right? Well, that's that's the thing now is we are in this position where we can we can see it and when I take people out in the field what I do is I I Prep them first by showing these images from NASA the the satellite photography the Google Earth imagery aerial photography Then ground photography and then you go out in the landscape and at that point you can start having this framework for understanding what you're seeing Otherwise, you just don't the scale of it is too vast It's amazing. It's really amazing. This is you know, this is An adventure of exploration that we're just getting launched on this is this is recovering Yes recovering the lost the lost past of Humanity and if I may I want to make a pitch again for the comment for the comet research group if anybody I think it's really Important. It's not it's it's not just a matter of funding their research It's also a matter of sending a message that we the people are prepared to take matters into our own hands and and Support those scientists who are working with open minds inquiring into the past and whether you know give a dollar or a hundred dollars or whatever any little counts it It says it's the voice of the people as much as the money that really that really matters these guys the comet research group They need their research funding. They have an indigo go crowdfunding campaign You can go to my website press the comet research group banner. It will take you to a page with all the relevant links Please consider supporting it. It's valid. It's worthwhile It's worthy work and it has the potential to change the whole story of our past and our future and it's a story that would be Incredibly exciting to be a part of and that's what I'm trying to get people to think look There's this thing happening and it really it is democratic in its own way and you don't have to be some specialist or a particular authority in some branch of Academically approved science to begin to appreciate and understand this It's a human being getting out into the field and seeing this kind of stuff firsthand getting it into the discussion into debate and in spending more time on this because it's it's such an Interesting story and that's what the scientists at the comet research group are offering that the people who contribute will Participate in certain ways in this awesome the future. Well, we're all what I was gonna say is we're all human beings We're a part of this planet. We are pedestrians Walking along at the on that we're being carried by this planet and all this stuff is our right It's it's your right to understand what the history of this crazy rock has gone through. Absolutely. This is amazing Yes, amazing stuff in the perspective to understand this is like this for 12,000 years This story has been written into the landscape of the earth and only now are we able to? Step back and begin to see the big picture in in Tandem with ever greater detail and what's emerging is really? It's a really well-hiled tale, but the evidence is there to support it completely This is I mean, this is if this is what I've this is the story I've told in magicians of the Gomes This is this is recovering this this lost memory it really is wild and our time here on this planet has been confusing for so many reasons and The one of the big ones is not not understanding how we got here And that's one of the reasons why your book I think is so important to me just give you this new perspective of how this sort of civilization emerged Another problem I think we deal with all the time is light pollution. I think light pollution You never see the stars. It's I think it's really a perspective blocker in a big way No, it absolutely is Randall and I were having a discussion earlier about how ancient cultures related to the cosmos as Above so below they felt themselves connected with the cosmos. They made their monuments in alignment with key celestial bodies They did it very carefully. There was a sense of bringing down the Enchantment of the heavens on to on to earth in modern societies. We can't even see the stars You live in the middle of a big city. The stars are gone The light the light pollution just blots them out You never think they're there and you forget actually that you're part of a majestic cosmos so that everything about it is mystery We are immersed in mystery from the moment. We're born to the moment We're die and yet our society is telling us. Oh, it's all very prosaic and dull and it's just about production Everything's all explained So you don't really need to worry yourself about it too much because some authority somewhere has it all figured out No one has it all figured out. It's not possible I think everybody owes to themselves to go out into the desert in the middle of When when you know, there's a stretch where the moon is not going to be out and there's gonna be clear skies Especially if you live in Southern California, you can get out to the desert pretty easy Just get out away from all the cities and just look up and it'll freak you out It'll freak you out because it's it's one of those things that you kind of really take for granted Because most of the time the sky is just a dark black Featureist thing with a little couple little white dots aren't really that compelling But when you get out there and you see the actual Milky Way itself you go. Oh, holy shit Well see now we could have you know every year There's probably a dozen High altitude events that could have been witnessed by ancient peoples that we are completely oblivious to because of our urban existence Because of light pollution because nobody is really looking at the sky But these high altitude events would be essentially equivalent to like here is she she my sized bombs going off 20 miles up and we just outside. Yeah, it's basically like if it's in the daytime and you're not looking right up there That's right. You're not gonna say it a time and at night if you're living in the city if you're inside the light pollution By the time it happens, it's over. But if you're out in a completely wilderness area where you've got You know visual access to the stars and you're aware of that and you're constantly aware of the presence of the sky You're gonna see much more of that kind of thing happening Then if the cosmos decides to get a little bit more active which it apparently does from time to time suddenly the sky is now Becomes a major factor in your in your existence your tribal existence your cultural existence Especially if in those episodes you have multiple Fireball type events that could be on the scale of anywhere from Chelyabinsk up to Tunguska and that's what Klub and Napier that's their scenario is these clusters of That we enter episodes of bombardment When we are passing through a filament of the torrid meteor stream, that's thick with heavy debris asteroids of a kilometer or more in diameter When we enter those filaments we are entering a period of episodic bombardment when human civilization is at risk and according to their Calculations we are entering one of those filaments in the next 30 years Jesus And that's why we need to pay attention to this because 30 years is enough time to do something about it if we apply the Resources of our civilization to this we can solve this problem Let's look at a couple more pictures Because I'd like to get the picture of Graham. I want people are too busy making new phones They don't have time to fix the asteroid thing exactly projects images and holograms that's my My contention that it's gonna take well, but then again those the serious commercial talk of mining asteroids That is that is the way into this that if they can if they can if they can see an economic return for them Then maybe they'll do the good thing actually for the human race Would this have to be a manned expedition like Bruce Willis and then asteroid movie not necessary. Okay, what's the image that won't show well? Jamie why don't you go to the the folder of the one we open folder of awesomeness the fault of Folder the folder of awesomeness. Yeah, just let's start with 1007 What are we gonna look at here? Well, we're gonna look at some NASA stuff Oh cool, and then we'll look at a couple of Google Earth things and then we will look at some a couple of US Geological survey things and then we'll look at some photographs Five minutes worth. Okay, let's do it. We got well, holy shit This is this is a early one of the early NASA photographs taken from 500 miles up Back in the late 70s actually and what we got here is the two big Scabland tracks that show two of the big meltwater streams that have left their their scars in the landscape So each one of those is Varies roughly between 10 and 20 miles wide and the bigger one on the right is probably 50 to 60 miles long or Actually a little bit longer than that But you can actually see that when the water swept down from the north out of British Columbia it washed away 200 feet roughly 1 to 200 feet of the existing topsoil that had covered the basalt bedrock right basalt bedrock by the way that was originally formed by Eruptions of the Yellowstone caldera interestingly But so the water came down swept away the the the topsoil and left the bare Dark basalt exposed down below the feature that we just looked at is not even really in this NASA photograph it's over to the west, but let's go ahead to the next one Jamie would be snake River down there, which is Where's the snake River snake River comes up out of Idaho and it joins the Columbia and then flows out to the Pacific Ocean All right, then we got a Google Earth image coming up Okay in order because there's just a lot there's a lot in here Oh, okay, tell me which number you want me to pull up be 1008 1008 the next one What's going on with our TV? It keeps going off and on that TV is not really made for the way we use it So it doesn't like the inputs and I just turned it off so I could pull up the next one. Okay There we go, so now we're getting actually a bigger view of the landscape and you can see the two meltwater That's a scab land tracks. Mm-hmm Okay, no one can hear you if you do this You just just tell me where it is I get it, okay, so there's the two scab land track, right then you've got the Grand Coulee which is that dark ribbon going up to Columbia River there? Grand Coulee Dam is right almost you almost had it. It's where the Columbia River suddenly gets skinny. Mmm right there That's Grand Coulee Dam. That's the widest the most massive concrete dam in North America And it's impounding water in Franklin Delano Roosevelt Lake to about 400 feet deep Right now all of the area at the top the glacier the the green mountainous area This was all covered in ice and then over to the left right there You have that brown area and do you see the kind of semicircular arc of dark ground right there? Yes That is where a tongue of the ice came out of Canada and it stopped right there and When it receded when it melt melted back What it did was it left all this rubble that can't really be farmed effectively this it's called till Glacial till and where the glaze where the glacier ended that's called more moraine moraine And you can see it's circular where the the glacier came and then coming right off the snout of the glacier Do you see kind of a a ribbony? That's a giant scar in the landscape that was formed by a meltwater stream coming off of that ice sheet It's called Moses Cooley. Hey Randall I think we should keep in mind a lot of the audience aren't actually seeing the visuals on this They're not I mean the tape the takeaway is that all across the Pacific Northwest is a landscape that has been utterly scarred and devastated By gigantic flood that took place twelve thousand. It's left its marks Everywhere and this is right near Coeur d'Alene so Coeur d'Alene is from that. That's the residue of this Coeur d'Alene right yeah, if people go to the geocosmic Rex website or the sacred geometry international website They can see most of the images that were showing well They'll see it if they watch the YouTube video they can watch it and hear you talk about it at the same time It's just the vast majority probably 90% of our not just the visuals right now, but they can and so they probably will so So they can go to that in and watch it You can look down way down on the lower left is the potholes cataract right Go up a little up along the river come down south south keep coming keep coming Stop look to the right of the river. That's what we were just this man knows his landscapes To note to the right to the right to the right Jamie Jamie Yeah, this this whole area so we get it this whole area has been absolutely absolutely unequivocally Right You see this Joe and you realize the scale of what we just looked at and now you're seeing that within this whole landscape Yeah, that was essentially inundated. Mm-hmm You you'll start to get this the scale of the thing and that's what I'm trying to do here If you Joe can get the scale of this in your mind. I've accomplished something. Yeah, I think I got it from that one image Was a that was a real mind-blower the ripples. Yeah the ripples Yeah, the role the ripples were a real mind-blower and then the other one with the farmland and then there's massive channel cut into it You kind of get it. Yeah, the ripples aren't even on this image They're their way to the east has anybody sat down with you and tried to dispute this I mean the people that believe that this was a slow and gradual effect. Does anybody sat down and tried to Debate you on this. No, this seems like something that would be really interesting to debate I mean, I would love to see someone who's a geologist that you know I'm sure there's someone out there that is listening to this that may have a dispute with it Yeah, there is I'm sure but I would love to I would love to see them talk to you about it and go over all the various things the nuclear glass that they find the I mean all of it all the top bottom Here's the thing Joe at this point Nobody is connecting the work of the of the comet research group with the Missoula flood effects that we're looking or except Except us that's crazy most people are like that's crazy How's it possible because it's the missing link? It's it's such an obvious It's such an obvious connection and it really merits exploration scares the shit out of me. What if you guys didn't exist? What if you guys were never born? What if you never wrote that book? What if you never been freaking out about this shit your whole life? How would I know about many times in the human story as this? Happened where stuff has just not been explored that really needed to be that sounds crazy to something like a Michael Shermer I'm a skeptical person. Well, I'd say to Michael Shermer. Come on, man. Let's go spend a week out in that landscape Well, he does want to debate you he wants to sit down debate you. Okay, Graham. All right Let's can we set that up? We can set that up. I love it. Yeah That sounds like yes, it would be a good time. Yeah. Well in my mind There's really no no arguing with with this this evidence. I mean well, it's too overwhelming and the question really comes down to At this point nobody disputes that there were catastrophic floods The question is what was the mechanism how many were there? How long how long how long did it take? Was it a bunch of catastrophic but smaller floods or was it back to Brett's his original model of one giant flood? And I think the truth actually lies somewhere between the two and and it again the geology gets complicated But I'm writing it up. So I will explain in detail what my thoughts are and after after having crisscrossed thousands of miles of this landscape repeatedly and Basically absorbed every piece of scientific literature every written on it I've evolved some ideas about what could have happened here and how it happened Well, I was a grown adult and I found out that North America most of it was by You know, what was it 10 12,000 years ago was covered by a mile-high sheet of ice I wish yes, but I was a grown adult and I went North America roughly north of Minneapolis Yeah, and that was that's common knowledge, right? I mean everybody knew that anybody who's actually studied the history of it But it never made it to my dopey head until I was a grown adult and then I went wait a minute Wait a minute. Wait a minute. What and the the idea in my mind that this whole thing was covered just 12,000 years ago That seems so incredibly recent and by the way that ice was more like two miles deep Could consider the weight of those ice masses pressing down I mean anything that was there before the ice came down would have been ground to powder And then as the ice cataclysmic melts everything below it is washed away forever It's like an eraser for the world Right. See that's exactly that's a great phrase an eraser for the world And that is the thing that so many of the skeptics haven't factored into their thinking when you're going well, where's the evidence? Yeah, the evidence is you've got to understand is that we have to rethink the possibility of evidence once we know that there has been these erasers of the world that have transpired and And not just once but I mean what we're looking at here is probably the most severe Events in the last five million years and I have a reason for using that number five million. What's the reason? Well, the reason is is based upon the the the severity of the mass extinction We have to go back five million years to find an extinction Event of an equivalent level as what occurred at the younger dry It's funny because what I would call a knee-jerk skeptical person would always say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence Is there anything more extraordinary than that image of those farmlands and that giant swath cut into the land? That's that is the extraordinary evidence. That is it. Yes, that's pretty right pretty extraordinary And then the core samples the core samples that show this massive fluctuation of temperature. Yeah Yeah, yeah that coincides with the Yes, yes, it's all there is it obviously all leads even if someone like me it leads to an event and this cataclysmic episode Immediately precedes the time when we've been told that civilization began. Yeah, that's the other point which is really important We have this huge punctuation mark and then civilization suddenly starts to evolve No, it was there before this is a reinvention those hunter-gatherers like those people that you would watch in one of those shows Are they surviving Alaska? You watch those shows? Yes, those shows are great like life below zero crazy ass Those people would make it those people would make it and they would breed and they would carry on. Yeah. Yeah What is that? What does it say? 1012 Oh, you could just say it next image No worries, no worries look at this Wow Okay, so that to me I'm looking at this after what you've told me that looks like water that is sort of like receded and Left these lines in the hillside think think of a bathtub rain Mm-hmm after Joe you get in there and you take a bath and the water is basically brown with sediment What kind of fucking way it leaves bathtub rings? You leave in sediment in your tub And you're quoting Genesis and the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth and all the high hills were covered Wow Because I'm you know trying to pump the biblical flood model I go far from it what I am trying to do is to throw out pictures whenever I realize here's a great quote And it doesn't matter where it's from because there's so many flood legends you can quote from well The biblical flood model is the it is one of those myths is one of those Traditions that have come to one of thousands of traditions that speak of this the whole Ancestral memory of the human race is telling us that something terrible happened. It's it's also very unfortunate That's all that's all connected with an ideology that a lot of people find Problematic like that. There's this issues with that being you know religion of course cult or this faith-based belief We must immediately realize the flood is not the property of the monotheistic religion It is found in every culture on earth also in that a lot of these stories you're talking about massive Translations from ancient Hebrew to Latin to Greek and a lot is lost in the process And you're dealing with a lot of these stories were handed down from generation to generation for like What was it like a thousand years before the first version was ever written lately? Absolutely, so all that's I mean that is Unbelievably fascinating go to 1014 1014 and we'll see a topographic map Yeah, whoa Now that you know try holes it's like it's crazy looks like something just what like you had a sand castle or some flat sand set up and a wave came in and cut through it and then pulled back the wave came from the north and It swept down over the landscape and basically carved and plucked and quarried and gouged and gashed that landscape And this is one of the places Graham and I went if you look right in there You'll see where it says grand part of Grand Coulee GRA nd Right there where the D is we have a great video clip online of me and Graham We're looking at the this actual topo map right here and and in surveying the the cataract around us You'll also notice that there's a rock blade Just like similar to the one that we just saw in the drone footage Yeah, the rock blade you and you recognize the alcoves now. Yeah, and If we go to the next one we have a Google Earth image of 1015 of this feature And There's the Google Earth image and for scale in the upper left hand I've superimposed Niagara Falls at the same scale so you can see by comparison Wow, have you seen been to Niagara Falls Joe? I went when I was a little kid Honestly don't remember I think I went when I was a little kid. I'll have to check with my mom It's impressive you see it but you kids the point here is that anybody looking at this and you know if the folks look at the The imagery on the online. They say one of the biggest waterfalls in the world One Niagara. Yeah, not in terms of volume. No, but it's the biggest of the African or something Yeah, or South American. Maybe Victoria Falls. It depends. You know the highest or the greatest volume It's it's about two hundred thousand between 150 and 200 thousand cubic feet per second Going over those falls depending on the flow of the river But the flow that came through here was about 350 million cubic feet per second and left this and Yeah, if you're going live on the geocosmic Rex website, there's a video clip of me and Graham Down there just just by perch Lake. May I ask you a question here? Yeah now if the water that was creating Grand Canyon or the Niagara Falls rather right up there if that all Reseded and we could see the bottom wouldn't it look similar to what you see in here? The one of Grand Canyon no no Niagara Falls right there right above it right there Yes, it would but on a smaller scale on a smaller scale But like on a smaller scale like some of the smaller features that you see right there, right? Yeah, and that's the thing you were saying it's fractal The interesting thing about water erosion and sedimentation is its scale invariant so you can look at features and coming up into pictures here I've got a beautiful example of scale invariance where you see the small version in the large version and it's exactly the same thing That's why if you go into any geology text They've always got something in the photographs like a a rock pick or a person standing there Otherwise, it's hard to get a sense of the scale of what you're looking at, right? So my question though was that if that's the case if you could drain Niagara Falls, and it would have a similar feature set to what you're seeing on the ground there Well, we know that Niagara Falls has been doing that for a long long time thousand years of work of the river at Niagara Falls Here you're looking at a moment in time that unfolded in a few weeks right, but how do we know that well for one thing? to scale of it because if it because in other words how long would it take? Niagara to Carve something on this scale if it's taken Niagara ten thousand years say to carve that How long would it take an equivalent flow to carve this but it would never look like if you drained it though What would it look like an equivalent to any of these things? Well for one thing? It's not basalt bedrock So you're not going to see quite the same type of erosion because really what you what you've got to consider Is that all different rock types are rowed differently right also? You know what happens is you have regimes of flow so that what you have in in Niagara today is a lower flow regime Which doesn't have anywhere near the type of turbulence or erosive potential is when you get water Moving at 50 or 60 miles an hour one reason we definitely can know that this is the case is because we see the Association with the giant current ripples we see the boulders that have been plucked and quarried and some of them are 40 and 50 feet in Diameter you see and we'll look at some of those Coming up in the next next picture Do you have that image that you were talking about before of that one gigantic boulder that was carried on this? It's coming up. Okay, if we move quickly through here, we'll we'll get to it. So go to go to 1017 and that will be from the ground view again with Niagara Falls superimposed for scale the Horseshoe Falls the Canadian Falls Superimposed for scale now basically that cataract at Horseshoe Falls is about 120 feet in height the cliff wall of this giant cataract is about 400 feet high and then you see the beginning of the blade rock out there and The full extent of the thing actually goes all the way to the horizon But we can't see that beyond there But this erosion goes all the way to the horizon cut into stone that cut into basalt hard columnar basalt That was extruded basically with the eruption of the Yellowstone caldera long Mill 15 million years ago basically But then covered up by a couple hundred feet of lost topsoil and then that was exposed when the floods came through Go go to the next 1018 and you'll see an example of some of the debris that was left behind By the floodwaters when they finally ceased There's the stuff that you're looking at now the bigger stuff there is 30 and 40 feet Those would be like four-story buildings down there. So those are just washed away by this gigantic River That's just this this right this massive gigantic River moving 50 60 miles an hour sweeps through their Plucks and tears the bedrock and then when the spigots finally get turned off The water starts subsiding and this stuff that's being carried in there just gets left in the wake just like you're gonna see any modern smaller flood is gonna leave material in its wake the difference is this material is Piles of boulders the size of houses gravel bars two and three hundred feet thick and three miles long And they're all in it. So see here's the answer to your question is and this is what how Brett's finally did it was by Showing that it was the full suite of evidence Taken integrally that created a picture that was undeniable to the skeptics It was just it was overwhelming because it was every piece fit together Too perfectly to and there was no other explanation other than gigantic hydraulic events and and now it's a question of the detail what caused them how long did it take and You know, that's where the controversy is now This is amazing. It's amazing and terrifying. But what's cool about is it's terrifying But everything's okay right now. Everything's okay right now So it's like you feel like I'll be fine, but maybe not if something like this happens again Well, you have to ask what what could be the change in you know in the human orientation to life on this planet Like for example, I remember the first Earth Day 1970 right when when this consciousness about hey, you know what? Our existence on this planet is having an effect on this planet, right? And at that point you see this a whole environmental consciousness emerged that didn't exist before that, right? Well, I think maybe in the next decade or two, we're gonna see a new environmental consciousness that Involves the recognition that this planet we live on is a very dynamic place and has been so and is the key to deciphering a lot of mysteries geological cultural historical and paleontological biological etc that that this has been a dominant factor in the evolution of Basically everything that's been going on on this planet whether you're looking at millions of years or thousands of years It's just it's such a strange time to be alive where all this stuff is coming together all this information is being exposed and So there's no hidden archive has been has been broken open and the stuff is spilling out and you don't know Whether you've opened Pandora's box by letting it out, but it's all logical and we're all logic so easy to follow It's all I mean it seems like when it comes to like a step-by-step One zero two nine coming up one zero two nine one fella come up bingo guy Now this room travel about 500 miles south out onto the Utah Canyon That's beautiful and what you're seeing there is basically dry cataracts now that you've seen these cataracts You can begin to recognize them all over the place now. This has not been acknowledged as being a Cataract, but what you actually see when you look at the modern erosion Is that these features are being slowly eroded and eaten away by the modern erosion? And it's a different erosion regime altogether that creates features like this And this is a vast scale of erosion here And when you travel over the southwest that is the most striking thing that you're gonna Experience if you're if you're you know in empathic with the landscape, which is that there's been this enormous amount of erosion Now I'm not saying that this enormous amount of erosion was all created by one flood But I think what it is possibly saying is that when we go back over several million years gigantic floods on this scale aren't and That exceptional that there's something that that from time to time and see here's the thing This is completely removed from the glaciers any water that would have eroded this landscape was not coming from the glaciers It had to have been coming from rainfall Go if you go to the next slide Jamie one thought which is not which is not a disconnected element because Because of the massive rain out that was that resulted from the impacts on the ice cap What's this this is Valus calderas? This is the largest volcanic caldera in North America? Oh it's 11 miles across and Here's what it was born out of a catastrophe millions of years ago, right and then Subsequent eruptions over hundreds of thousands of years have left this feature But what's interesting to us here is what happened around 12,000 years ago The entire caldera filled up suddenly and if you look at right about if you look at it as a clock at about eight o'clock You can see a breach of Valley coming off. You see that? Yeah Jamie can you yeah right there? That was the spillover So at the same time now get this at the same window of time that This these flood events are happening up in Washington and Idaho and Montana This caldera suddenly fills up with water and the water spills over the rim and cuts a canyon hundreds of feet deep Now what could cause that to suddenly fill up with water and it's completely removed. It's not receiving glacial meltwater There's only one thing by default and that would be rainfall a lot of rainfall Falling over days and days at a time. So if you go to the next Slide we'll see what sits down in the bottom of this valley is Thousands of these gigantic rolled boulders and you know that they're water transported because they're round they're rolled That's what water does it rolls these things now. This is in New Mexico. See So this is related to the spillway the overflow of all this caldera Which has been dated to that same interval when the floods were happening up north the same interval that now the common Is dating to is this coincidence or are the two related? I would say it would be very premature to dismiss it and say that they're not related You bet because as Graham just said one of the once one of the consequences of an impact whether it's into the ocean or the Ice sheet is you're going to have extreme amounts of water vapor Injected catastrophically into the atmosphere, which is then going to rain out in an incredible Torrential downpours that might last for days at a time and Along with that water vapor is a tremendous amount of particulate mass And it's that rain out that I would say caused the erosion on the Sphinx and tells us that the Sphinx is 12,000 years old not 2500 BC you guys are freaking me out This is amazing This is the most convincing argument yet that you guys have ever made But it's all it's all been convincing this is this is more compelling and then all the pieces come together Yeah, no then next slide Jamie, which would be 1032 which is to me a beautiful example of scale and variance here we have the modern Snake River flowing in the modern Channel and then we have the ancient flood channel and Which you can see there the average annual discharge of the snake 56,000 900 cubic feet But the estimated flood that created the big channel is 40 million cubic feet And now this flood actually was coming up get this out of Utah. It was coming up. It was part of the giant Lake Bonneville of which the Great Salt Lake is but a diminutive remnant So the Bonneville Salt Flats the Bonneville Salt Flats were the bottom of this gigantic lake That that filled the basins of North Eastern, Utah And at the end of the last ice age it suddenly filled up very rapidly and spilled over a mountain pass to the north and Then flooded this out the the Snake River plain of southern Idaho and anybody can see the Snake River plain if you go to Google Earth or any topographic map and it cut channels like this that ultimately led to the Columbia River, but Interestingly the dating of this puts it again right in that window So that window of 12,800 to 11,600 years ago when everything changes Yes, everything changes and so what I'm showing you is just a little bit Selecting random almost dots to show you that no matter where you look you're gonna see evidence of these of these events imprinted into the landscape Yeah, go to the next slide 1033 and if you go down and you stand on that floodplain down there You'll see the kind of stuff that got left behind This is the sediment load being carried in the flood Wow So you got what kind of powerful currents are necessary to transport and I'm standing in the canyon that was cut by the flood Those walls are 400 feet high So what we would think of as being like little pebbles at the bottom of a stream. Yes, it's moved around Yes, it's like grand scale This is like sand grains on the bottom of a modern little creek but or river except that humongous boulders Yes, and this is what a geologist or geomorphologist would call the bed load the stuff being swept along in In the flood waters being rolled and tumble and geologists recognize this but they think took Mainstream geologists think it took a long period I mean the few geological Papers that have been written on this admit that it was a one big catastrophic flood Wow And what is their explanation for that catastrophic flood? Well that somehow Lake Bonneville rose up and and say right breached them pass and it's northern rim But you know, is that possible in any way? Well, yeah, if you have enough rainfall prolonged over a period of time days or weeks That the whole body of water could have raised by 300 feet roughly and then it but you again You would need something like the comet impact to provide you with a source for that rainfall right because otherwise there's no other explanation for that kind of a that kind of rainfall and it's known from the modeling of Oceanic impacts that yes, there would be Unbelievable rain out in the aftermath of an oceanic impact and clearly the same thing would would follow in the wake of an ice impact What oceanic impacts that we have on record only a few of them? There's one up by Sweden We were discussing also the possible Indian Ocean impact possibly one in the Indian Ocean 5000 years ago, which which creates tsunamis on both sides of the Indian Ocean dated to about massive massive tsunami disposits deposits and and again the this whole argument of the younger dry ice Cataclysm between twelve thousand eight hundred and eleven thousand six hundred years ago The strongest case is the focus of the science has been on twelve thousand eight hundred years ago But there's a lot of interest in the eleven thousand six hundred years ago as well and the strongest Suggestion of what caused that that sudden rise in temperatures accompanied by meltwater pulse Well 1b was a second encounter with more fragments of the debris of the comet this time The impacts not being on the North American ice cap, but in a major ocean probably the Pacific and that that then puts a huge plume of water vapor into the upper atmosphere and shrouds the earth and Creates the greenhouse effect that accounts for the radical rise in temperature that occurred 11,600 years ago more science needs to be done on that It's another reason why I want to see the comet research group funded because this is this is important work God damn. There's an awesome podcast This might be my all-time favorite Okay Yeah And There's a giant that's a giant current ripple field we did see this one Graham this is the West bar Yes, if you go back One slide we can see an aerial photo. I took years ago of West bar It's three miles long There it is well, and there's an airport down the lighter colored buffs of is a landing strip and the the the Airport building there is three stories tall. So this whole feature is Three miles long and the ripples here are on the same scale as the camis prairie ripples that we just looked at Of course, this is in central Washington. The other one was in Montana So again you as we begin to place these Event nodes around on the map. We can begin to see the outlines of a really really huge event And all of this is going on at the same time You've got to understand all this is dated to the same time all this is dated to the the the same time that you think the impact Took place and it's all over that coast the only dates that we have that are hard dates are a volcanic ash Primarily from Mount St. Helens the date at 13,000 years but they use that as a baseline and then assume that There was multiple floods and each flood was separated by 50 to 100 years And what they've done is they've gone from Brets his original model of a single flood into a dozen floods into 40 floods and now up to 80 or 90 floods Which I disagree with but on the other hand there were see I think you have to understand this in two phases Because the an impact phase is going to melt a whole lot of ice all of a sudden, but it's not going to melt all of it It's going to leave a huge amount of residual ice in the aftermath now What we see is that particularly after the eleven thousand six hundred year ago event at that point the whole planet comes right out of the ice Age inexplicably that's the end of the ice. That's the end of the ice the beginning of the Holocene. It's over and and Basically what we're seeing there is that there is a great deal of heat suddenly that's brought the planet out of the ice It does not convert revert back into the ice age like it did at the twelve thousand nine hundred event See so what we then have is that in the aftermath of this event The whole climate of the earth has been completely altered the whole balance of nature Has been completely altered from before these events to after these events But what you have now is a lot of residual ice that takes about two or three thousand years to melt away So sea levels continue to rise sea levels continue to rise and the melting of this ice produces some pretty big floods But not on the scale of what we're looking at here And I think it's my personal opinion that there's a confusion between the two different flood regimes And and I'm going to document all that I'm writing all this up in detail as a as a like as a thesis to explain my interpretation of the phenomena over you know 20 years, but let's go to That would be so important. I would love to see people Really go over this with a fine-tooth comb because it's so compelling It's just so amazing like just this image itself is just wow what would what kind of power? Enforce would it take to create those rebels those 50-foot-high rebels all over the place miles and miles and miles of them Yeah, and and see nothing since that event has really affected them They're still sitting there is these gigantic monstrous fossil features in the landscape now when they do core samples on that stuff What do they find out like as far as the dating of it like if they get well bottom one of those ripples? Well you you've got to find love you've got to be able to find organic material right in there and to the extent that there's organic material It basically all dates from the end of the ice age the problem is is when you have a flood like this coming through It's sweeping up everything in its path including forests and animals so if you've got a bone in there or a piece of wood That doesn't necessarily mean when the flood happened right? It's not a nice layer of said layers of sediment. It's a jumble. Yes chaotic mess It's not like you could just go dig into the side of that hill at that same level and find something That's organic and absolutely dated to that because that's all stone right right Boulders it's yeah if you saw a cross-section of one of those ripples It's it's just a jumbled chaotic mess of everything from Finest sand and silt up to boulders the size of cars and even houses Stuff just yeah, that's so crazy go to 1041 and we'll see an interesting artist rendition by Edward Rial who did all the illustrations for the jewels original jewels vern books And he did a version for an astra astra geology text What was the guy's name is skipping me right now? but I thought it was an interesting image because it basically shows an event on the scale of what we're talking about and What's interesting here is you see that the torrents are carrying icebergs and in this one iceberg in the foreground I call it Graham's rock from now on it's gonna be I have officially named it Because it's carrying a gigantic Yeah, because I went and climbed that it's no longer the Wenatchee erratic So we got the Graham erratic coming up in about three images So let's go to the next one 1042 and this is basically another key piece of evidence is strewn for thousands of Square miles throughout the path of the flood you have these gigantic boulders And these are being carried aboard icebergs So let me let me describe what we're looking at right now because there's a person is that you there I took the picture so it's two of my fellow travelers Okay, normal-sized people and you know, whatever six feet tall and and bounce them on top of each other 12 18 you're looking at probably at least 35 40 feet tall right? Yeah. Yeah and And wider wider than it is tall. Oh, yeah 60 feet wide does that's insane and that was carried by water It was carried. It was carried on icebergs in the water. Oh my god So this one this flood is not just water. It's it's a huge thousands of icebergs. It's very strips up by their roots It's a jumbling mass of powerful Erosive flow amazing thousands of megafauna are done doubt. In fact a lot of there've been a lot of Mammoth remains found in Missoula flood sediments, particularly in the Willamette Valley Okay, let's go to the next image There we go. This is like like out in the middle of the prayer you again, you got thousands of these things I'll tell you what I'm a chicken. I wouldn't stand right there. I think that thing's gonna roll on top of you That would be a wrap son. Yeah, this is known as Jaeger rock that thing's huge and is that you want to meet there? No, that's one of my try took the picture Tom stand there Yeah, I said stand there and then I had the other guys go around the back This thing is kind of hanging off the side of that hill the way some of those Hollywood Hills houses are the ones that are on stilts see that that Rounded mass of stuff that it's sitting in is called a burg mound and you see these icebergs are not clean ice They're dirty. They're filled with gravel and debris So when a burg when a burg that's being carried in the flood and the flood waters subside the burgs get stranded in the land They then melt and if there's no boulder, there's just a mound if there's no gigantic boulder There's just a mound But if there is a gigantic boulder being carried aboard the iceberg it will be sitting in a burg mound like you see right That's amazing So that white line that we see it was where the iceberg was when it deposited that thing then it just melted from there No, that's actually a bedding plane between two different kinds of basalt. Oh Okay, so the mound itself below it is what you're saying is the burg mound That's the burg mound and the boulder the big boulder was the cargo sitting on top of the iceberg Okay, so the burg is not just water. It's water with a bunch of dirt and all kinds of other shit in as well Yeah, and so when it melts, that's what it leaves behind I see that's amazing Okay in the next image we have the Hancock erratic That you up there well, that's me on top of that breaking the law 18 thousand ton of older Once you're breaking law. Yeah, I was I do that from time to time But it but it's an amazing experience to stand there and to think what transported this Well, we know it was transported in an iceberg and it was dumped there on the side of that valley And it's just the thought of thousands of these things Plowing along at 60 or 70 miles an hour carried on a gigantic flood. How do we have anything left? You know, no wonder no wonder we've forgotten our past and see and here's the thing I mean what we're doing here is we're looking where these flood events are preserved the most spectacularly and the reason is is because You had a very steep gradient from the ice sheet elevation to the Pacific Ocean but like Graham and I when we traveled across we traveled across the continental divide and Traveled from the Rocky Mountains to the Twin Cities, which is on the Mississippi River and all the way across we were caught crossing Huge meltwater coolies we cross the Missouri River Valley, which is an under fit stream Just very similar to the snake where the modern Missouri is just a little ribbon of river occupying this massive meltwater channel of which there are hundreds across the plains and Then when we got to Minneapolis, we went up and we visited some of the largest known pop amazing potholes Yeah, again, you're looking on the scale of Giants. This is this is Beyond imagination what you look at and they're only this the flood explanation makes sense of it go to go to 1054 Jamie And you'll see There we go. I'm down inside the pothole one of the potholes looking up at Graham So that's a pothole carved into stone by whirlpool. Yeah Picking rocks in them and the rocks are the erosive agent that's cutting out the pothole Just think like a massive hydraulic drill Wow just picking up, you know course rock and then just Drilling literally drilling holes 50 60 80 feet deep again. Go to the YouTube Please if you're listening to this just go Just you got to fast forward to this. This is insane. This image is insane. Just thinking of watching rocks spin around Yeah, really into the ground and you're talking about over a short period of time. Oh, yeah Probably, you know, I'm guessing you know these giant meltwater floods This is right along the st. Croix River which forms the border between Minnesota and Wisconsin It was probably of several weeks duration at its peak at its peak And so the drilling of these bedrock probably was accomplished within that time span What I wouldn't give to know what that was like just to see it Well, you'd have had to been in orbit to survive it, right? Yeah, even if you're flying over in a plane probably they're just the atmospheric change. This is on top of these flood sediments from I've Documented it from Ohio to Washington State. There are thick layers of loss Now loss is this strange topsoil that came down and it's they've been arguing for Generations, is it wind deposited or water deposited? But the curious thing is it seems to be both wind and water Deposited but there I think the obvious explanation for it Is this that when you see the the like the top layers of the flood? Sediments particularly in the back flood regions where the where the water was calmer rather than so torrential you see these layers these Beautiful they're called rhythmites. They're very rhythmical on top of that is a layer of this lost topsoil with this vertical structure Right. Well the to me and again without getting into the technical background I think the logical explanation and most likely explanation is that at the tail end of the the final flood flows what you're seeing is is a rainfall of mud and this rainfall of mud came down and Which many ancient traditions speak of yes black bituminous rain mud falling from the sky Darkness a time of darkness. It's all described in the myth myths are the memory banks of humanity We should not call them myths. We should call them memories. Yeah, exactly And and again this this muddy rainfall perfectly fits the whole narrative and again with the mythology it's It's right there when we think of these the idea of these tsunamis We think of water that you can see more most likely dealing with the entire air around you filled with torrential Dampour and solid matter. Yes. Yeah, everything's flying through the air. Yeah, Larry Incredible winds incredible winds. Yes, so it's both wind and water and just full-on chaos super hurricane It's it's nature gone Chaotic and crazy on ultimate steroids Wow, this is what it is. Oh wild and it's real That's the thing is it happen while people were alive. Oh, yeah, it happened while people were alive Absolutely No, it happened a blink of an eye ago. It happened. It happened when anatomically modern humans had already been around for 200,000 writing well No, but not according to the Orthodox historians, but if we're dealing with a lost civilization, which I believe to be the case then yes It's so it totally makes sense. Mmm completely totally makes sense. Yeah, and it's time. It's time to get to grips with this It's time to move move forward to the next level and start recovering our memory Yeah, well and also start recognizing that this is this is a potential reality. Yeah, this is a not just the past This is also future very possible. Yeah, and and and again if I may say so Crowdfunding It's the opportunity for the people to give their voice show. Can you show that page? This is the the crowdfunding page for the comet research group and it's on In the link is on Graham hang there. It is. So if you go to Graham hankok calm and click on the comet research group banner Then you'll you'll get taken immediately to the crowdfunding page, please support it Whatever you can give it'll make all the difference. It sends a message that we that we care about alternative heretical research and Also while you're at my website I put up there a lot of other follow-ups to this podcast if people want to go places I'm talking in America in the next weeks. Yes and links and connections a lot of stuff related to this podcast is yes I'd like to plug my DVD that has a lot of these images on it. Okay, and it's about five hours of stuff, blu-ray And if they go to the website sacred geometry international, do you have that available as a download? It's gonna be if it's not already. Yeah, I think it is. I think it is available for a download Yeah, my laptop doesn't even know I don't know. Nobody's does anymore. The answer is yes Okay, if it's not now it will be I think it is actually now available Yeah, I get it on iTunes or Amazon or something. Yeah, it's hours of stuff, but I get into a lot of other stuff the some of the interesting Sidelines the archaeo astronomy and the sacred geometry and so forth that might be associated with ancient cultures and what's the name of this again? cosmic patterns and cycles of catastrophe beautiful and and There it is, yeah, that's the older version. This is the newer upgraded version. All right. Yeah, there we go. There we go Beautiful and there's the blu-ray. Yeah, there's the blu-ray. Yep. Okay, send an HD download. Excellent. There it is. Yeah gentlemen This has been a long long podcast of awesomeness man this cemented in my head I mean I the idea was already cemented in my head But these images along with your compelling narrative is cemented even further. This is amazing such a cool podcast and Matched you entertain and scare the shit out of me at the same time. So thank you for that Graham It's your Graham underscore Hancock on Twitter. Yeah Graham double underscore Hancock, but I'm gonna yeah They made it really difficult to reach me on Twitter But it is there and then you know, I've got my Facebook page and my website is the main portal Graham hankok calm Everything comes off there my book my events and and all kind of you verified on Twitter You know, I'm verified on Facebook, but they haven't verified me on Twitter dare you I'm over, you know, I got a hundred thousand followers there, but they haven't they haven't verified me and I'm me I am me Yeah, Randall. How much do you pay attention to social media at all? I'll immerse myself into it for a few days or as much as I can take and then Well, you're gonna get a flood of questions about this one cuz this was awesome really thank you so much I'm so so thankful and honored to know you guys because to me this is I mean the Ultimate thing for me on this podcast is to be able to have people on that are talking about things that I find Absolutely captivating and you guys I think what you're doing is so important You're playing a huge role Joe in in opening people's minds to unthinkable thoughts all around the world stuff that people have been told They are not allowed to think about your your show is opening doors that have never been opened before stumbled into it I don't know what happened. I would like to get you out in the field I would like to get out in the field. I want to see that stuff. Yeah, that's what I want to go to Washington State Let's do it. Let's set something up. We'll make a video. I want to go there. I want to see that Let's do it. That looks crazy serious. This is this young Jamie you in Jamie's in. All right. Thank you so much everybody. See you soon You