Hollywood's Double Standard: Gay Leading Men

Have you met Werner Herzog? I've not. No, I'd love to. Yes. He's a... He's a crazy man. He's one of my all-time favorite movies too. It's one of the best unintentional comedies ever, but I don't think it's particularly unintentional. There's a fucking moment in that film where the sheriff, when the sheriff's talking about like the body and they carrying the body off in bags, he's like, you know, what did you think? Well, first time I heard about it, I thought he was retarded. And then they could just as a smash cut to the sheriff's face and I'm fucking howling. I'm howling laughing. And I'm like, this guy did this on purpose. Like, there's so many cuts in this movie that are so humorous. I gotta think that... And Werner Herzog, have you ever heard him on Eric Weinstein's podcast? No. Brilliant guy. Oh yeah. He's a really interesting, intense guy. And very dark sense of humor. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, that's why I thought, I was like, this motherfucker did this on purpose. He made this a comedy. So do you think that... What was the name of the character? Timothy Treadwell? Yes. Yeah. Yes. When I watched that movie, my feeling was this guy is closeted, gay dude. 100%. Yeah, you felt that too. No question. He brings up, if I was gay, it would be easy, but I'm not gay. Right. That's what he says. Because you say, why can't I find a girl? You know, he's like walking through the woods with this like lispy, gay way of talking. And he's talking to the... For people who don't know what this documentary is about, it's about a guy named Timothy Treadwell. And Timothy Treadwell was... Well, I guess you could say he was a bear expert, but not really. Because the real bear experts were like, this guy doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. He should get out of there. Like what he's doing is... He doesn't need to protect these bears. He's pretending that he's protecting these bears. He's living with them. I think there was a certain element of it that was suicide by bear. Yeah. I really do. He was walking through the woods holding this camcorder, getting filmed going, if I was gay, it would be so easy. Right. Talking to the camcorder as his only friend, because he was out there alone for... Months at a time. Yeah, every summer. But no one who's not gay says, well, if I was gay, it would be really easy. I've said that a lot, Joe. But unless you're being funny with a friend. Yeah. Like, well, if I was gay, I would just hook up with some dudes. But he's saying it like, why can't I find a girl? If I was gay, it would be so easy. No, it wouldn't. You're still living in the woods with monsters. You're gonna get a bunch of gay guys? Gay guys, they wanna be in boystown, okay? They should remake the movie in a bear bar. On Broadway. That would be hilarious. That would be hilarious. Grizzly man. Yeah, instead of doing it with the forest and actual grizzly bears. In the West Village. Yeah, yeah. If I was gay, it'd be easy. There's bears everywhere. I went to a bear bar with Andrew Sullivan and Dan Savage. There's actually a bear bar. Oh, there are lots of bear bars. They call them bear bars? Yeah. Oh, that's hilarious. And for people who don't know what we're talking about, bears are big, hairy... Gay guys. Gay guys. Think Tom Sigur and Bert Kreischer. They do a podcast called Two Bears, One Cave. Oh, do they? Yes. That's hilarious. But neither one of them is gay, but I'm beside the point. But if they were gay, they'd be bears. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Bears. Dan Savage is a trip. I've had him on the podcast. Yeah, yeah, I know. I saw that. That was interesting. He's a great guy. He's super smart and funny as shit. And he's armed with nothing but a sense of humor and a great intellect and a big heart. He's... And honesty. Yeah. He's changed the world. He's saved who knows how many lives. He's beautiful. I really like Dan a lot. Yeah, when someone can just be themselves, again, that's who he is. Timothy Treadwell, if he had listened to Dan Savage, everything would be different. Well, that leap, man, that coming out leap, fuck, it's got to be so hard for people. I know several guys that are closeted and it's torturous. Torturous to see. And one of them, I've talked to him. I was like, just come out, man. No one gives a fuck. We don't care. No one cares. It'll be a giant relief. Just they worry about, especially actors, they worry about the careers. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when your career is more important than the integrity of yourself. But I don't think it hurts you. I don't believe it. Yeah. I don't believe it. The only thing that would hurt with actors is leading man roles. Yeah, Rock Hudson kind of guy. Yeah, leading, that's one thing that's fucking real. Like if you're a... Like I don't know if Tom Cruise is gay, but that's always been this stupid rumor. Right. Let's assume it's true. If he did come out in the closet, man, nobody wants to go see a movie where he's the leading man. If you're a guy with a fucking kids, you'd be like, that guy's fucking dick. You would never buy into it. Like a gay woman, like Jodie Foster could easily play a straight woman in a movie and no one would care. Sure. It'd be fine. But when a gay... That is the fucking glass ceiling in Hollywood. It's one of them, right? When a gay man comes out of the closet, those roles, John Travolta or whatever it is, whoever it would be. I don't know if he's gay either. But if he was, that's the fucking... That's where the buck stops. You cannot be the leading man who's the married guy with kids or the hot man who's in a sexual relationship with a woman if we know that you're having sex with men. But then it's funny, right? We can watch straight actors pretend to be gay. Like Burbank Mountain. Sure. That's no problem. Sure. No problem. Yeah. Very strange. Yeah. Just open prejudices that we all accept because no one's been able to bridge that gap. Except what's that dude's name? That fucking... He's got three names. Little skinny guy. Used to be on a sitcom, How I Met Your Mother. Neil Patrick Harris. Yeah. Doogie Howser. Doogie Howser. Yeah, that guy. He's openly gay. Didn't he play a womanizer on a sitcom? I think on How I Met Your Mother, I think I've never watched it. The thing about sitcoms is they're like plays. Those kind of sitcoms in front of an audience, they're horseshit. It's not like a movie. They're horseshit. You know it's horseshit. Everyone knows it's horseshit. Anything with a laugh track. I'm very suspicious or studio audience. Like Happy Days. I love Henry Winkler, but The Fonz. That's horseshit. No, wait. Is Henry Winkler gay? No, I don't think so. Maybe. I always assumed he was because he was so overcompensating with The Fonz. I think that was a character. Meet him in real life. He is the nicest guy I've ever met. He's so friendly. He's in Barry now, right? Is he? Yeah, he plays an acting coach in Barry. I haven't seen it. I hear it's great. I've never seen Barry. He's a fly fisherman. He wrote a book on fly fishing. And I think the book's called I Never Met an Idiot on the River. Because there's something about fly fishing.