Free Will, The Unabomber, and The Harvard LSD Studies

Oh god. Can you like minority report of like legitimate serial killers? You know what the problem with that would be? If you could go like if you were with a baby and you said because of this baby's life and where he's at this baby will one day be a serial killer. I'm just trying to figure out how we got to just being with a baby with the scenario. I'm just saying it's not even your baby but... Well you're at a hospital. Maybe there's some like some future prognostication tools where they can like zoom in on a baby's brain and see exactly where it's gonna go. I mean there's got to be something to having some sort of consistency with the neurology of serial killers. I think it alters with life. I think it's many things and obviously I'm a moron so I don't really know. You say you're a moron as I'm sitting watching this beautiful sign lit up behind you in this gorgeous building you are not a moron. I'm definitely a moron. You're a total moron but you're a very smart moron. Compared to smart people you need to trust me. I'm a legit moron but I have a way of looking at things. I'm a little freer in my associations because I don't worry about being fired. And so I haven't worried about being fired for a long time. So I have a certain freedom in the way I look at things but that's not intelligence. But my point is that I don't remember my point. What were we talking about? We were talking about serial killers. Yeah. If you could take that child and raise it differently would it turn out to be an amazing person? See like what happens to a person? You know the concept of determinism. Do you know that over free will? Right. Free will meaning that you have control of your destiny. Determinism is like hold on a second. It's way more complicated than that. You're who you are right now is a combination of many factors that are outside of your control. Particularly when you're a child abuse violence and trauma those shape a child in very horrific ways and neglect. One of the things I was watching a documentary about the Unabomber and the Unabomber's brother Ted Kaczynski's brother was talking about how when Ted had a condition when he was a child they brought him to this place to treat him and they let this he was a baby and they left him alone for like months. So during a critical period of his life like he had no love no touch of his mother like this is like really important stuff. I forget how long the period was. I want to say it was like two months but even if it was like two weeks. What does that do to a child. It's got to be detrimental. See if you could find it Jamie. It was in the documentary that is recently on I think it was on Netflix. He talked about it. You know so he lived in this shack in Montana and he would point guns at people and not kill him and then he starts riding this manifesto and then he starts sending bombs to people. But there's so many factors there. Here's here's one besides the fact that his his parents left him in this place. They definitely left him in this place for a period of time that I think was pretty extended. I think was at least two weeks it might have been two months. Jesus. He was also part of the Harvard LSD experiment. Oh shit. So in Harvard during the 19 I guess it was 50s. Not sure when he was going to school at Harvard. They were doing these LSD studies and was like MK ultra. You don't know right. I would say yeah. No I don't know. They must have had branches for sure. They had studies helping them fuel their own study. Find a time but this is what it says about it. Okay. When Ted Kaczynski was at a tender age he got sick was taken to a hospital with hives or swollen red bumps that appeared on the skin. His family said he was isolated from his parents as doctor tried to determine what was wrong with the infant. Mom always faulted the hospital. They would have been there every day visiting but the hospital said no. David Kaczynski said in the docuseries it was kind of like we don't want parents to be in the way. We've got our work to do. We have our little baby to cure so keep your distance. They were only allowed to visit him two times a week for two hours. Oh my God. It's insane. I mean so then you think about us being in quarantine. Are we going to create serial killers? A little bit but look at the bottom. He'd come out and he'd never been the same after that she said. So it changed him as a toddler. So you got that okay. So this horrific neglect that he experienced as a child through no fault of his own. So free will. We have to look at free will. What does that mean? Are you saying he has free will like this guy with a broken brain because he was ignored as a child or people that were sexually abused as children for years and years and years by a close family relative or a family member and no one believes them. That's real too right. How much does that change you? Then he goes on to be a part of these fucking Harvard LSD studies. And then you also have to factor in gender. You have to factor in gender. I'm pretty sure that's true but you know I'm wrong a lot. Don't you think you have to factor gender in a little bit? Him being a man. Yeah I'm sure. He was apparently like super his brother talked about how he's super angry when a girl would reject him. He would get furious. And I'm sure with testosterone that is affected differently than somebody who's you know female with estrogen being the leading hormone like there's got to be that has to factor into it a little bit. Unabomber in the Harvard drug experiments. I mean you gotta admire the outfit though that's style that's me in the airport. Does it say anything in there? If psychology today has it too. Okay. What does it say that he was there? Oh was it part of the MK Ultra product? It was. What does it say about Ted Kaczynski? Does it say that in there? I'm 99% sure he was a part of the study. I wouldn't be surprised I mean if fucking Manson was it's like they had like the NBA starting lineup of serial killers. Just google Ted Kaczynski. There it is. Analysis of the personality of Adolf Hitler. Wow. And that's a thing like how what are when you think of the circles of psychology and how many overlap how many are overlapping with people like Hitler and Ted Kaczynski and all of these like what are the what are those common denominators amongst them because that's what we have to figure out is people who study the brain and and study behavioral patterns that's really going to tell us a lot but you're right like will and what are the two factors you're. Determinism or free will. Free will right. And I used to think much more that it was free will because I'm a stubborn person I should think fuck you figure it out bro like when I was younger in particular I get that but the more I talk to people that really understand the concept the more it let me relax my grip on my opinion which is very important right when you have an opinion about something it's very important to examine how much of a grip you have in this opinion and whether or not this opinion is connected to you judging your own intelligence are you in a like a game with people where your opinions better than their opinion like are you married to these ideas well it's hard for people as well because a cognitive dissonance dissonance like we have a natural reaction to learning new things hundred percent well we have we like things to fall in line with whatever we already I yeah we would have we very assumed is our ideas so this is the study and it says another ethically problematic this is a fucked up story ethically problematic study was conducted by Henry a Murray Murray was a professor at Harvard University and had worked with the office of strategic services the predecessor of the CIA before the CIA they didn't just they don't name what are we gonna call just strategic services put it on the on the door what sounds better central intelligence agency or the office of strategic services strategic services too hard to say it's so hard to say it's too come to rule so neither of us have said it correctly with both sides that's true yeah but strategic services like like you said I got your head what are you doing here I'm from the office of strategic you have two strategic service men in your in your office yeah I agree with the name CIA it's a better name I'll say okay so during World War two he wrote an analysis of the personality of Adolf Hitler which was a psychological psychological analysis of Hitler that was used I can't just come up with a better word why psychological so long the mind of analysis of Hitler it was used by the military and during this time he also helped develop tests to screen soldiers conducting conducted as tests on brainwashing and determined how well soldiers could withstand interrogations so what they were trying to do is break people so they took this is what's crazy about it they took these students and they would do things to them they would interrogate them and fuck with them and they would also dose them and so the interrogation studies it says included intense mock interrogations on soldiers as part of assessing the limits of their psychological breaking points okay that's a little perverse right he conducted such interrogation studies on Harvard University undergraduates Theodore Kaczynski who later became known as the Unabomber was one of the 22 participants in Murray's study subjected to several years of interrogations designed to psychologically break the young man so why aren't the people who have run these studies under the same interrogation that the soldiers of World War two were under where we went after the fucking Nazis we should be going after people who ran these terrible tests and basically created some of society's most prominent and infamous serial killers that's a night you're right and it's a nice way of looking at it that we he deserves punishment we deserve revenge and all that him the people that yes yes and all these victims deserve revenge yes but what I'm interested in is that this man like if karma is real if that's real if like what you are today is this chain of lies that you live that have brought you to this and you're thinking of yourself in this incarnation because it's the only one you've ever known but in reality you're the process of this long line of beings that has gone on since the beginning of life itself gave all the ancestry in you what did that guy do in another life think about if that's true I'm not saying it's true but imagine if it is let's just as a thought experiment imagine if it is that you're gonna come back as a guy who is ignored in this place because they're treating you with some rando disease that you got that most babies don't get so you have these horrible hives they keep you in this place where they take care of children for weeks they don't let you visit them a couple of times a week to avoid of however long they kept him there I don't know how I don't remember I want to say it was two months and we know your numbers are a little off think it could be an hour he was there for 45 years he was there most of his life they let him out in college so he he gets out of there and then his brother would talk about these like moments of rage that he would have that would be terrifying and that like like if a girl rejected in particular he would write like horrific notes to them like really mean mean notes and then this guy goes and does these Harvard studies where they fuck with him relentlessly and they're trying to break him it's almost like they knew that this was a guy that was unusually broken like insusceptible to breaking in the way that would benefit their study especially like when you think about the male brain and the formative years go well into your into your frickin 20s and you're yeah like 25 to the frontal cortex I think it's females too I think maybe you guys are a little quicker a little bit quicker like 1819 but you know it's still like he's on the heels of his brain barely being there dosing with acid and trying to break them psychologically and doing like mocking alone as a child on the playground although I do think it's a necessary passage into adulthood is to deal with adversity mocking alone is brutal and then you add it to this study with LSD being thrown into the mix where your brain is not on a solid ground the way it's going to process everything is obviously detrimental to who you become and it changes your it changes your brain chemistry you know I think there's like a problem a real undeniable problem with having secrecy what do you mean if you're like an organization that has ultimate power like the CIA 1950s and you can run these studies and no one knows about them and you're giving kids acid and you're trying to break them it's crazy shit to them who knows what they did to them right and it's like is it really for your fucking study are you guys just bored or do you just get to do this right you get to do and you're just pushing the ticket because you can and you're funded that's so demented catch new episodes the Joe Rogan experience for free only on Spotify watch back catalog JRE videos on Spotify including clips easily seamlessly switch between video and audio experience on Spotify you can listen to the JRE in the background while using other apps and can download episodes to save on data cost all for free Spotify is absolutely free you don't have to have a premium account to watch new JRE episodes you just need to search for the JRE on your Spotify app go to Spotify 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