Khabib will legit kill McChicken one day, he and Cain will chill in prison together, and I promise to bring them whatever the fuck they need.
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Jim Miller is a mixed martial artist competing in the UFC lightweight division and the host of his own program, "The Jim Miller Podcast."
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Khabib will legit kill McChicken one day, he and Cain will chill in prison together, and I promise to bring them whatever the fuck they need.
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You got a cookbook?
What's going on?
Yeah, I'm coming out with a fucking cookbook.
Are you a good cook?
Legitimately?
I see you cook on Instagram.
Looks like you're into it.
I am.
Yeah.
Food has always been a pretty big part of my life.
I grew up in a family of cooks.
I actually consider myself probably the worst cook in my family.
Don't say that before you're selling your book.
I know, I know.
I'm still pretty good.
My brother Dan and my other brother Michael are both phenomenal.
Your brother Dan has the nastiest guillotine finish I've ever seen in all my
years of watching MMA.
That won the IFL where he had that dude pinned up against a cage.
It looks like his head is gone.
It looks like it's disappeared.
The way it bends over, folks, it's like an elbow.
It doesn't make any sense.
It doesn't make any sense.
No, I didn't.
It's sideways.
I didn't see that.
We were on the opposite side of the ring.
I didn't see that until the next day.
I was scrolling through some pictures on one of the forums and I was like, holy
shit.
Here, watch this here.
Let's see.
Let's see if they can show it from the beginning again, please.
Okay, here it is.
Let's show it.
Yeah.
Folds him in half.
No, when he stands up, he's still fighting.
Like right there.
Like there.
What the fuck, man?
Yeah, yeah.
How is that possible?
Look at that.
Look at that.
It looks like it's disconnected.
How is that possible that a neck can do that?
He's literally hearing his own heartbeat.
Right?
I'd be dead.
I think that's the craziest guillotine I've ever seen in my life.
Which is amazing because think of how many guillotines you've seen.
Yeah.
Right?
I've never seen anybody do that.
I mean, that is, that's a wild guillotine.
It is.
The IFL was weird because it was, there was good fighters and good fights, but
the concept
was so goofy that people were like, what?
There's a team?
Yeah.
And like your team wins.
It's like they were doing it like wrestling teams, right?
Like it was kind of like you could, you could win your match, but your team
could still lose.
And like there was team names.
Yeah.
It's a, and I think of other couple promotions have like tried to do something
similar and
it just doesn't seem to work in MMA.
I don't like what the PFL does either, where they have like point systems and
you get a
point for, more points for finishes and more points for this.
And so you're ahead and like, I'm not.
It's weird.
I can't pay attention to all that.
Just let him fight.
I think it's like they see how people are really into stats, you know, like rebounds
and he's got most assists and this and that.
Like there's a lot of guys that are like numbers guys.
Yeah.
They can tell you, you know, this guy ran for this amount of yards and this and
that.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like they love those statistics, but in MMA, that's just like.
Yeah.
It, uh, people just want to see us punching each other's heads in.
That's really what it is.
You're overcomplicating what's essentially the purest sport.
Yeah.
It's so pure.
I mean, you could show an MMA fight to someone who has no fucking idea what's
going on and
they're going, oh my God.
Like you show them cricket and they're like, why?
Yeah.
What's the point?
What's the goal?
Why do you have a paddle?
Like what's happening here?
How's this work?
You know?
Why is he throwing the ball like that?
Right.
Or baseball.
Like baseball is American pastime.
But if it, if it wasn't and someone tried to invent it today, people would be
like, get
the fuck out of here with this game.
Too complicated.
It's just, what is going on here?
He's stealing bases?
He gets to steal bases?
Like what's happening?
You know?
Why nine?
Why nine innings?
Why nine dudes?
And what's going on with the pitcher with his fingers?
What's he doing there?
He's the catcher and the pitcher communicating in some weird way.
You know?
Yeah.
How about when a guy like can, the catcher will stand away from the base?
And he'll intentionally walk him?
Like, what are you doing?
Like, what is this bullshit?
I guess it's, yeah.
You're cheating.
Strategy, right?
You're cheating.
Throw the fucking ball.
Throw it.
Try to strike him out, you fuck.
It's silly.
Yeah.
I guess there's, there's some, there's some silly stuff that happens in MMA
though.
And, you know.
What's, what's the silliest thing you think?
Like, cause, I mean, I fell in love with it watching like the early days.
Watching Pride and the early days of the UFC where it was like, dudes were just
going in there to beat the fuck out of whoever was across from them.
And, you know, like, when I see a fighter try to game the clock, you know, I, I,
I understand why they're doing it.
Cause they want to win.
Right.
But, like, like, my whole goal is to not have the judges have any fucking say
in it.
Mm.
Uh, cause I got three schmucks.
Yeah.
Questionable would probably be a better word.
They call them schmucks.
Uh, on the, on the outside of the, the cage, like, that have, that have zero
experience in the martial arts for the most part.
A lot of them.
A good percentage of them, unfortunately.
And, and, and, yeah, they're, they're picking who's going to win or lose.
And, like, I get paid twice as much if they think that I win.
Uh, so, like, I, I think that, you know, the, the purest part of the sport is
when two fighters are just trying to.
For sure.
Beat the shit out of each other.
Undeniable.
Yeah.
I mean, there's some really good judges out there.
We should acknowledge that.
Cause they don't get enough love because there's so many bad ones.
You know, it's like, I feel like number one hardest job is fight.
Number two is referee.
Yeah.
Number, no referee is the hardest job.
Like, cause they can step in too soon.
The guy jumps up.
What the fuck?
Yeah.
The worst is when it's a submission.
Yeah.
You know, like when, when someone is like fighting their way out of a
submission and then the referee separates them and you're like, oh my God, what
have you done?
Yeah.
And you can't restart it.
Yeah.
Cause of the way they did before.
Yeah.
Remember Murillo Bustamante?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And Matt Lindland, he had to tap him twice.
Yeah.
Lindland, he caught Lindland in an R bar and Lindland's like, I didn't tap.
I didn't tap.
I didn't tap.
Which is like, you fucking definitely did.
You gotta, you gotta make sure.
Yeah.
Like, let him rip you, you know, rip you off of them.
There's only two times in the UFC that I can recall that a fight was restarted.
And there's that fight.
And then there was another one that was actually not restarted, but redone.
Conan Silvera and Sakuraba.
Do you remember that?
Yeah.
Big John McCarthy stopped the fight early.
Sakuraba dropped for a single and he thought he was out cold.
Yeah.
And Sakuraba was, he got hit with a punch and dropped down for a single and
they stopped
the fight and Sakuraba was like, what the fuck?
And they were in Japan.
So because it was UFC Japan, they're like, what are we doing here?
And it was actually proved to be a historic moment because then he came back
and submitted Conan.
And everybody's like, what, he submitted a black belt in Jiu Jitsu.
Like, that was unheard of.
Like, you never thought that a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu could get
submitted.
Yeah.
You know?
So those are only two times that I know of where a fight was like, but there's
a lot of times where I think it should have been that way.
Well, they should have probably let him continue.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a, like, as a fighter, it's, I feel like it's tough because I, you know,
the ref is there to, so I can fight again.
You know, there's, I mean, I, I want to choose my way out.
Like, let me, let me decide that it's, it's enough.
But, uh, I do, I do appreciate that they're looking out for us.
But like, like you said, it's not a, it's not an easy job.
It's not an easy job at all.
Um, you know, my, my last fight, I thought it could have gotten stopped a
little bit quicker.
And, you know, that's probably because I haven't knocked a lot of guys out.
I knocked him down and it was like, I threw one or two, they kind of hit glove.
And then it was like a second one just sunk in.
It's like, dude, that, that didn't need to happen.
And then it's still, it's still going on.
So I was a little bit amped up, uh, you know, post fight, but, uh, it's a, it's
a difficult spot.
It's the hardest spot other than fighter.
Yeah.
You know, commentary is probably the easiest because you're just kind of saying
what's happening.
You don't really, you know.
I don't know.
You guys do a lot of fucking work.
Like, it's not that hard.
It's not that hard.
The work I do, like, uh, like this weekend's a big event.
Um, the work I do is fun.
Yeah.
Like, I'm watching fights.
Yeah.
Like, all week I'd be watching fights.
I'd be, like, there's some, some folks that I haven't seen fight before.
I'm going to watch their fights.
I'm going to go back and, like, look at their records and look at their history
and stuff like that.
But it's not, I don't even, I don't even consider it research.
I'm just excited.
You know, I just think if it's fun.
Like, if I was doing that on hockey or something that I don't really follow,
then it would be work.
I'd have to write stuff down.
I'd have to really think about it.
But, you know, I'm, I'm looking forward to it.
So, it's easy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, I think fighting's easy.
Well, it's amazing.
If anybody saw you and you said, like, this guy has some of the most fights in
the history of the sport.
Like, you, in the history of the UFC, like, who fucking has more fights than
you?
Nobody.
Nobody.
Yeah.
Nobody.
Yeah, nobody.
How many fights do you have in the UFC?
39.
But what's crazy is, you don't look fucked up.
You don't talk fucked up.
I try not to.
You don't at all.
Like, if I introduced you to someone and I said, this young man has the most
fights in the history of the most brutal combat sport in the world.
They'd be like, what?
You?
Yeah.
I think I found the thing that I was kind of built to do.
Because that's one of the things that people don't understand.
Like, I've never had surgery.
Like, knock on fucking wood.
That's crazy.
Nothing?
Like, yeah, yeah, nope.
You know, the only bone that I've ever broken is I chipped my sinus when Dan
Hooker kneed me.
Like, chipped the outside of my sinus.
That's the only bone I've ever broken.
Really?
And that just heals up on its own?
Yeah, yeah.
There was nothing they could do for it.
But, like, and I've been bouncing around outside the octagon, probably worse
than I have been inside the octagon.
And it's like, shit, man.
Like, I was just kind of, like, built to take lumps, I guess.
I've got a fucking giant head for a 5'8 dude.
And I think that's helped me, you know, absorb some shots.
And then stylistically, yeah, I just, I try to, like, I do sacrifice some power
for trying to be protected.
Well, you're very smart defensively as, at the same time, you're hyper-aggressive,
which is very interesting.
You know, it's a good combination of two things.
That's right.
Yeah.
Well, you're also very good off your back, too.
It's like, the combination of all those things is like, you know, you can,
there's not a place where you fight where I'm like, ooh, this is not his best.
Like, there's some guys that get taken down, and you're like, he's kind of
fucked here.
Like, you don't have, like, a spot like that where you're in a bad position.
I try.
You know, it's a, it's a, it's, that's one of the exciting things about the
sport is it's, there's so much shit to do and to learn.
It makes it difficult on one side that, like, you have to try to get in
workouts for, you know, not only to be a good, you know, technical fighter, but
a good athlete.
And then you're working on, you know, ground stuff, clinch stuff, wrestling,
striking.
So, there's, there's so many pieces to the pie that you got to, like, stuff in
there.
It's not, it's not like, hey, all I do is grab a ball and run.
Right.
You know, so, yeah, we, we have to, you know, find your strength and try to
fight to your strength.
And I think that's an issue that sometimes fighters get away from is they, you
know, they learn new things and then they don't fight to their strengths that,
like, got them there.
Right.
Like, I've done that in the past.
In what way?
Uh, when I fought, um, uh, uh, Gray Maynard, um, you know, like, that was my
third fight in the UFC.
Uh, tough dude, good wrestler, better wrestler than me.
Um, you know, big step up.
But, like, to that point, I really hadn't been doing, like, private striking
training.
Like, when you do it before the UFC, uh, yeah, I was taking, I was taking, uh,
like, Thai classes at night.
Like, like, group, group classes.
Like a kickboxing class?
No, well, first six fights, yeah.
Really?
Basically, yeah.
My first six fights, uh, I started out at a place called Planet Jiu-Jitsu.
Tiny, little bit bigger than this, uh, this studio here.
Uh, this room of the studio.
Um, and yeah, uh, I was taking, like, cardio kickboxing classes because I had
never thrown a punch before and it, it, it was helping me, uh, you know?
But, uh, the, the ball had already started rolling so it was like, fuck it.
Like, we're just gonna go.
Take me back to, like, what was your initial martial art?
What was the first thing you ever did?
Wrestling.
Wrestling.
Yeah.
And that was in high school?
Uh, that was as soon as I could walk.
Okay.
Um, you know, uh, my, my mom's side of the family, uh, pretty, pretty fucking
good, you know, wrestling, uh, locally.
And then my, one of my uncles was a, uh, a two-time national champion for Lehigh.
Uh, he was actually, uh, an Olympic qualifier in 1980 when we, uh, boycotted,
uh, Mike Frick, yeah.
Um, so, like, his wrestling career was done before I was born, but, uh, his
younger brother, Jim, um, who's also my, my mom's younger brother.
Um, he wrestled at Lehigh as well.
Uh, never quite made it to, uh, all-American status.
Uh, one of my first memories is watching him wrestling at Lehigh.
You know, I think I was, like, three or something like that.
Uh, and I remember it because he, he ended up breaking his ankle that, that
match.
Oh.
But, uh, yeah, like, uh, as, as soon as I could walk, I was pretty much on the
mats.
Uh, I, you know, I wish I would have been a better wrestler, but I was a, I was
a late bloomer, uh, you know, physically and, uh, you know, in, in the sport of
wrestling too, I think.
And then you go from there to jiu-jitsu?
Yeah.
So, I wrestled, uh, through high school, one year at Virginia Tech.
Um, that was a, it was a learning experience.
Uh, you know, wrestling on a, uh, for a D1, uh, program.
Like, I walked on late, um, and three weeks later was starting, um, and, uh,
wrestling at a weight class that I probably shouldn't have been wrestling at
too, 141s.
Uh, and, yeah.
Too light or too?
Too light.
Yeah, way too light.
Um, you know, we, they can't do anything about it now, but we snuck by the
hydration test.
Oh, boy.
Yeah, I, I carried a cup of my coach's pee down to the trainer's office.
Oh, really?
Yeah, since I was, I was, I came on after all the hydration tests and all that
stuff.
So, uh, it was like, hey, uh, this will work.
Wow.
So, um, you know, it, it, like I said, it was an experience wrestling in a room
full of, you know, multiple time state champs and stuff like that.
And, and, uh, you know, it, it, it taught me a lot about kind of surrounding
myself with people that support me.
Cause I didn't quite have that in the coaching staff.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I wrestled for a year, was pissed off cause I didn't like,
you know, the program and, and, uh, came back, was, was working a little bit.
And my brother and I, Dan, we're, we're messing around at work, working with
our father and, and finally decided to start training jujitsu.
And, um, we walked into the, the first gym that we trained at in May of 2005,
um, came in and we had been like fucking around.
So we ended up like submitting some guys on the first day and, and, uh, we told
the coach like, hey, like we want to fight.
And he's like, all right, give me like two or three years.
And, uh, six months later we were, we were stepping into the, into a ring for
our first professional fight.
Cause there was no amateur at the time.
Uh, no striking training.
Uh, literally three months of striking training at a, at a cardio kickboxing
class.
So at that place that you were telling me about playing jujitsu?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, yeah, it was, uh, it was a, it was a trip, you know, rolled, rolled the
dice a little bit.
Um, you know, it's, uh, yeah.
And then it was just like fight after fight.
I mean, in, in a year I had six fights basically.
So.
Wow.
Well, that's the way to do it, right?
That's, I, I believe so.
Uh, I think that's one of the biggest issues with like local MMA right now is
that they're making these fighters sign agreements.
So you're kind of locked in and then, and then.
How so?
Well, they're making, they're making fighters like, like local promotions,
local shows are making fighters fight exclusively for them.
Oh, that's terrible.
And then they're only putting on, you know, three cards a year.
That's fucking terrible.
They're doing that?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, don't do that, guys.
Yeah.
Don't sign that.
Don't sign that.
Whoever you, whoever's listening, amateur fighters, guys coming up, don't sign
that.
That will fuck you.
Yeah.
Those guys, that's unethical.
It is.
They should not do that.
Yeah.
Because if you, you know, like, look, if you have a good promotion and you pay
well and you put on a good show, people will fight for you.
Yeah.
But if you want to say that a guy has to be exclusive on a small card and then
he gets a call from 1FC or fucking Bellator or whoever.
A lot of them have, like, those, you know, the UFC clause where, like, if one
of the big promotions call you.
But the problem is, is, like.
You should be able to fight for a bunch of small organizations.
You want to fight almost once a month.
Exactly.
If you could.
Yeah.
That's exactly it.
You know, like, I have some guys that train with me that they don't get to
fight as often as I feel they should.
Now, they're.
Because of that.
Because of these contracts.
Yeah, they're, like, they're the two different roads you can take, you know,
like.
You can't fucking be exclusive if you're a small company like that.
Yeah.
That is not, that's not ethical.
Especially if they're making, like, you know, a thousand and a thousand, maybe.
Yeah.
Or a thousand bucks.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
They don't even have win bonuses.
But it's crazy.
Yeah.
There's, it fucks your development up.
Yeah.
Because if you can get a fight in every two months, man, you'll get more
comfortable with fighting.
You get more relaxed.
Yeah.
Because you do it a lot, you know?
And when you do it a lot, it, like, alleviates a lot of the tension and the
pressure because it, you could fight more to your potential.
Yeah.
And the more you fight to your potential, the more confidence you get, the more
you make gains in training, you start adapting and growing and learning how to
compete.
If you're with a company that's fucking you over in some shit, these fucking, I've
met some, look, I've met some great guys that run some small organizations, but
I've met some guys that just think, they think they're big time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's a real problem.
It is.
They act big time.
Yeah.
And then, like, one of the, one of the new ones, well, new, I mean, probably a
few years old now, the idea is that they make these, these fighters have, like,
ticket quotas and stuff like that.
So then it's like, like, dude, you're.
That drives me crazy, too.
Oh, it's the worst.
It's the, it's, it's the absolute worst.
Explain that to people who don't know what we're talking about.
So, um, in their, in their bad agreement, they're going to have to sell a
certain amount of tickets in order to get their, their pay.
Yeah.
So, like, they'll have a, you know, 40, 40 ticket minimum or whatever, uh, that
they have to hit, uh, in order to get their full pay.
And then for everyone below that, they're, they're docked, you know, uh, from
their, you know, their win bonus or their, or their, uh, their show money.
Um, that's a, yeah, it's a, it's a bullshit fucking move.
Uh, you know, you, you, you kind of understand it, but it's like, hey, you're
the promotion.
You're right.
Your job is to promote the fight.
Yeah.
You know, so like you're the one with the, with the marketing knowledge and the,
and then this and then that, and then the, the, the dollars to put down, uh,
you know, for ads and, and flyers and shit like that.
Like if, if a fighter has the opportunity to sell a couple of tickets and make
a couple extra bucks, maybe, all right, great.
But like what happens and, and this happened to, um, a bunch of my training
partners and, and this is like kind of led to my, one of the things that led to
me opening, uh, my gym a few years ago was we had seven guys on a local card
and all of a sudden there's a ticket quota.
And, uh.
After they signed?
Well, it was before they signed, but they didn't know that it was there.
So you had like a, a group of, you know, seven, seven fighters.
So a gym, like, okay, like one guy could have handled the quota, two guys, but
like seven, like then you're like trying to make sure that, you know, the, the
training partners buy from, from this guy.
Cause he hasn't sold a bunch.
And, uh, and yeah, it was, it was kind of a, it was a bullshit move, uh, that,
uh.
You know, it got put in there, but like, I don't think any of them like really
hit it.
You know, they all got fucking docked a, docked a bit.
So it's like, you know, you're looking at a couple hundred tickets between the
seven of them that they got to sell, you know, so that, uh, everybody can make
the money that they were.
And obviously they have that with everyone on the card.
Yeah.
So that's how he's selling tickets.
That's his promotion.
His, he's, that he's double fucking the fighters.
Yeah.
Really?
Like, if you want to say you're going to guarantee, well, guarantee you a
thousand dollars.
A thousand dollars to fight, a thousand dollars to win, which I think is
bullshit, by the way.
I, I don't like bonuses.
I fucking hate it, especially with bad judging.
I fucking hate it.
When I see a controversial judgment and, you know, and one guy, like, here's a
good one.
It's not necessarily controversial, but really close.
Some people think it's controversial.
Uh, Barbarina and Matt Brown last weekend, right?
Fucking real close fight.
Yeah.
The idea that Matt Brown is going to get paid half as much, you know, and one
judge thought
he won and two judges thought he didn't, and he's going to get half the money.
Yeah.
Fuck that.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
I don't like that.
It's a, it's a weird, uh, it's a weird model.
It really, like, I, I like, so the, uh, that London card.
It's like everybody with a finish got a, you know, that's a fucking great idea.
If you tell the fighters that before the, before the fight, Garen fucking teed,
everybody's
going out there looking for a finish.
Right.
You know, uh, and that's what I want to see.
Like, that's, that's what I'm trying to do in the fight, you know, no matter
what.
But like, as a fan, I want to see, I want to see aggressive fighters, not guys
that are
just trying to, you know, game the clock, win a couple of points and, and, uh,
you know,
get the W because they, they granted they used effective octagon control, but
like, right.
I want to see, I want to see finishes.
And that way you eliminate all the fighters that get fucked over by bad judging
because
then they don't miss half their purse.
Yeah.
Cause if you're missing half of your pay because of bad judging, that, that
should stop.
That should stop.
That, I just don't like that, man.
I don't like, I love the incentive to finish incentive.
That's great.
Keep that, keep that.
That'll maybe make guys fight more.
Well, you know, people definitely fight more aggressively for fight of the
night and performance
of the night and all that stuff, but keep the finish thing.
That's great.
That'll incentivize people.
But the win bonus, that's not incentivizing people, especially if it's a
fucking close fight.
Like Matt Brown could not have fought any harder.
Yeah.
Like that was, that was a war, man.
It was a crazy fight.
But the idea that he only gets half as much because of some subjective opinion
on whether
or not he did enough.
This is not taking anything away from Barbarino.
It was a great fight.
Yeah.
Real good fight.
And, you know, maybe I would go back and score it for him if I watched it and,
you know,
tried to score it.
But I remember thinking, God damn it, I hate that model.
I hate it.
Yeah.
It's a, like I said, it's, it's, it's weird.
It only exists in MMA.
It doesn't exist in boxing, right?
Have you heard of it in boxing?
No.
I think it's all show money.
You know, like it, I mean, maybe on the lower end, but I, for what I understand,
it's a
majority of it's just, yeah, you get, you get paid to fight.
Yeah.
And if it is on the lower end, they probably copied MMA.
Yeah.
Does 1FC have that?
Do they have a fight and win?
I have no idea.
I wonder.
Never fought for him.
Yeah.
It's, it's unfortunate.
That's, that's very unfortunate.
So you start off, you do a little bit, where'd you start off with Jiu-Jitsu?
That place.
Same place, playing Jiu-Jitsu?
Yeah, it was like Nogi.
Cardio kickboxing.
Cardio kickboxing, like Nogi, Nogi Jiu-Jitsu, tiny little room.
Did they have any fighters yet?
Well, that's why we went there, uh, cause they had a couple of, a couple of
fighters.
It was the closest place that had, uh, like an MMA team, uh, at the time.
Um, and, uh, so I signed to fight Frankie Edgar, uh, in November of 2006.
And the gym was kind of like, it was breathing its last breaths, you know, like
people, people
at the gym kind of knew it was going to go under.
Uh, and it, and it did like three weeks before the fight.
Oh no.
Uh, so it was like, it was, uh, a shit show of a camp, you know, like Frankie
was training
with Team Rhino at the time, which was huge.
They had like 60 fighters, something like that.
Um, and, and I had like two 16 year old blue belts and like a purple belt and
another purple
belt who was 305.
And like, I had, I had Dan to train with for like two weeks.
Uh, he had, he had cracked a rib and then like the first sparring session, I
just hooked
him to the body and I was like, ah, fuck.
So he was out.
So it was a, it was a shitty camp.
Um, great fight.
Frankie and I fucking, I, I've never seen the fight, but, uh, I had people
coming up to
me for years after that one.
I'm like, dude, that fight with Frankie was, was crazy.
Do you watch your fights afterwards?
Uh, not usually.
How come?
I don't know.
Like, as I, I remember, like, I remember the good and the bad, you know?
And it's like, I should, um, but like, I, I, I'm focusing on like what's next
and just
trying to get myself better and, and, and work on those things.
I let my coaches kind of peel that stuff apart.
Do you watch tape on other guys, on opponents?
Um, occasionally, usually just to see him fight, you know, but like, I'm not
trying
to break things down.
Cause I, uh, kind of what happened in that, that fight with Gray is that like,
I expect
him to throw overhands and like looping punches and he came out and he just fed
me straight
rights.
And it was like, you know, uh, I had been, I had been working with a boxing
coach for a
couple of weeks and next thing you know, I'm trying to like slip and move.
And it's like, that's not me.
Um, but I'd been doing it for a couple of weeks.
So I kind of picked it up and yeah, he, he broke my nose pretty early in the
fight and
then, uh, continued to hit it.
And, uh, yeah, it was like, uh, uh, it was a good learning experience, you know,
but, uh,
well, he's an example of a guy who had wars and then the wheels fell off.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Why do you think you have been able to fight the way you fight and not have the
wheels fall
off?
Fuck if I know.
Um, there's no, uh, luck.
Um, like I said, I, I think I'm kind of, I'm, I'm built to get roughed up,
built to
get, you know, into the mix.
Um, just durable.
Yeah.
And, uh, you know, like I, and then there's definitely a, a portion of that,
that is like
skillset.
Like I, I try to like, I try to not get hit, you know, like, and I, and I'm
willing to
like, uh, like if you keep your hand up, right.
If I, if I throw a left and my right is glued to my face, I'm probably losing a
little bit
of power than if I like loop that left over and drop my right hand.
But then if I, my opponent throws a counter, I'm more protected.
Right.
And that's what I'm trying to do.
Like I'm trying to land good shots and hit people hard, but be protected at the
same time
because I also consider myself a bit of a counter puncher.
So like I'm, I'm looking for somebody to throw something at me so that I can,
you know, snap
something at them and, um, yeah, I just, uh, I don't, I don't fucking know.
It's kind of crazy though, if you really think about it, because we all know
guys that they, how do I put this charitably?
They should have stopped a long time ago and they kept going and you know, we
all know
them like we see them backstage and we're like, Oh yeah, like there was, there
was guys at a certain
point in time where I'd see that they were on the card and I would have just
like raised my
eyebrows and take a deep breath.
Okay.
Yeah.
You know, cause you know, like they probably shouldn't be doing this anymore.
Yeah.
And then you see it at the opponent and you're like, you know, that's what's
scary.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And then you see them a lot of times they'll leave and they'll go to other
organizations.
They're like, Oh boy, you know, like they were already having problems and now
they're, you
know, it's, uh, it's a business that's unforgiving and there's no, when the
brain goes, when the
chin goes, there's no return.
I've never seen anybody where their chin went and then they made a comeback and
all of a
sudden it's back.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, no, I, I, I have not, I haven't either.
You know, it, uh, it's like you said, it's super unforgiving and I'm not the
type that I'm
going to try to tell people what to do.
Right.
You know, like, but I'd like, I'd like other fighters to try to make good
decisions about
it.
You know, it's like, uh, it's, uh, I don't, I don't consider fighting like
super dangerous.
Like, I think there's a lot more other, you know, sports and, and, and, and,
and types
of like entertainment out there that are a lot more fucking dangerous than,
than what
we do.
Um, but like over the long haul, this shit, you know, it, it, it, it adds up.
Um, but yeah, like, uh, I, I, I hate, I hate the idea of like telling somebody
like, Hey,
you know, you should, you need to hang them up.
Uh, what would you do though?
If you're a coach and a fighter and you, you realize that they're, they're
having problems,
you see telltale signs and slurring words and things along those lines.
I think in, I think in that position as the, as the coach, um, it's your
responsibility,
you know, to have that, have that conversation with somebody and, and they
might not take
it well.
Um, but like coaches have a very important job and, and that is to, that is to
protect
their athlete.
You know, you're not only trying to make somebody better, but you're trying to
protect them.
Um, and like, unfortunately in the, in this sport and the way that it is, it's
like sometimes
a coach has fucking 30 athletes, you know, and, and a lot of times they're, Hey,
they're
all here on sparring day.
So it's like, uh, it's hard to pick out like who's having, all right, who's
having a bad
day?
Like who's, who's not on today that maybe we should just pull them, you know,
we'll go,
go hit the bag today.
Go, we'll do a, we'll do a conditioning workout, something like that.
But no, it's hard sparring day.
So we're, that's what, it's what we're geared up for.
That's what everybody's, you know, they, they got a stiffy on hard sparring day.
Cause it's, it's the fun day.
Um, and you got to make the differentiation between a bad day and your skills
are eroded.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And like, uh, like that's, that's one of the things that I can definitely
attribute to my
ability to be still sticking around here at 40, you know, just about 40 fights
and, uh,
how old do you know?
38.
Wow.
Um, is that like, I, I opened my own place and dude, like being able to train
with a,
with a good group of guys that I trust and not have a fucking target on my back
is, is
awesome.
Um, you know, and when did you open up your own place?
Uh, end of 2014.
Tell everybody what that is.
Uh, well actually I ended up selling it.
Uh, but yeah, yeah.
So I opened up a Miller brothers MMA in 2014.
And, um, is it still called Miller brothers MMA?
No, no, no, no.
That would be weird.
Yeah, it would be weird, wouldn't it?
Uh, you know, I sold it to one of the guys who, uh, who worked for me and, and,
uh, you
know, one of my training partners.
How come you sold it?
Cause you know, it was like COVID was a pain in the ass, uh, obviously.
Um, and it was going to get to that point where in order to get it at least
back to where
it was, I would have had to be there, you know, teaching classes all the time
and stuff
like that.
And I was like, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to fight as hard as I
can for
as long as I can.
You know, I, I put it out in the air that I want to fight at USC 300.
And I think the best way to, to get to that point is to just focus on fighting
and not
be, you know, teaching classes.
That's the goal.
300.
That's the goal.
Yeah.
We're, we're at what, 270, what's this weekend?
273?
Yeah.
Is that right?
No.
So I, I think like, uh, it should be about two years from, you know, this
coming.
So you want to hit 40.
What?
Years old.
Well, I'm, yeah, I'll probably be like pushing 41.
Yeah.
I think it's going to be tough.
Yeah.
I can slow my pace down.
I can slow my pace down.
In terms of the amount of fights here?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like to fight shit.
I'd love to fight four times a year.
Um, but you know, three times a year is pretty good.
Um, when I, when I get those like eight month layoffs, I fucking hate it.
So where are you training now?
So I'm training still at the same place.
Oh, okay.
Um, yeah.
What do they call it now?
Uh, Sussex County MMA.
Yeah.
So, um, still the same group of guys.
Um, you know, I don't have to think about, I don't have to, I don't have to
deal with
the, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, whatever the hell it was, like 7,500
bucks a month
to keep the lights on and the, you know, the rent paid and, and all the
utilities.
So it's like, it's, uh, yeah, it's nice to just be, uh, a fighter again.
Yeah.
Um, there's a side of me that I like, I enjoy teaching to a degree.
I enjoy teaching like self-defense a little bit more than I like teaching jujitsu.
Why so?
Because jujitsu has got like a couple of different parts of it.
You know, you've got the sporty side and everybody's motivation is different.
If I'm teaching somebody how to defend themselves, that's like, Hey man, it's
fucking hardcore.
I get to be an asshole.
Like if it's jujitsu, then it's like, Oh, well, you know, I got a bad knee.
I don't want to do takedowns today.
And it's like, shut the fuck up.
Every fight, every fight starts on its feet, you know, like, Oh, but you're,
you're training
so that you can go pull guard at a, you know, at a, uh, competition like, or
whatever, you
know, like I think jujitsu is for everybody.
I love it.
But, um, I just find that, uh, my personality type aligns more with like, you
know, some Rex
Quando type stuff, you know, that's hilarious.
Did you ever think at any point in your, uh, your career of relocating and
going to a big
camp like American top team or something?
I did.
I did.
Um, so we, you know, my brother and I were training at, uh, AMA Fight Club in,
uh, in New Jersey.
And there were, you know, there's some bullshit and we had a great group of
guys.
Um, and that's kind of why I opened the place.
Uh, and it was like, do I open my own place or do I go to a, you know, ATT, uh,
or something
like that?
Um, and honestly, I feel like having my own spot is, it saved, it saved me.
If I was in one of those big gyms, um, like late 2015, early 2016, when I was
sick with
Lyme, uh, I, I don't, I don't think I would have fucking made it, honestly.
Um, I think that just the, like the attitude is different, right?
When you, when you've got a big group of fighters, there's, there's definitely
ego and it's not
gonna, that doesn't go away.
Right.
But, you know, there, there are plenty of sessions where it was like, I was
kind of, you know,
like I got to defend, I literally defend myself sometimes, you know, like some
of our sparring
days were fucking insane.
And like, we had a, like I said, a fantastic group of guys.
Um, you know, my brother and I and Charlie Brenneman and, um, uh, we had, uh,
like Jamie Varner came for a bit and Brian McLaughlin and, uh, um, Rafael Olvera,
Tractor,
fought in the UFC for a bit.
Um, like, like the best, uh, like the best fucking, fucking group of, of good
fighters,
but also good people, um, that were looking out for each other.
I mean, we pushed each other, but we were looking out, but you know, injuries
happened
and you know, like you, you, you push the shit out of each other and it's going
to happen.
But, um, when it's like, next thing you know, you've got some, you know, some
Russian or
something like that, that doesn't speak a lick of English and you're like
trying to tell
them, Hey, I'm, I'm fighting in a main event next, you know, next week.
Don't, uh, you know, don't stomp my knee, please.
Right.
And then it happens and then it happens again and then it happens again.
You're like, it gets, it gets stressful.
And I've, I've heard some of the other fighters that have left some of the big
gyms talk about
some of the same stuff where it's like, uh, you know, cause obviously the gym
is looking
for as many people as they can cause it's a revolving door.
Um, but you have to realize where the specific athletes are, like I said, like
good day or
bad day, you know?
And that's one of the things that I've, I've realized over the years is it's
like, man,
like as a 26 year old shit, there were fucking no bad days.
Really.
It's like one a year where I felt like kind of sluggish where now it's like,
okay, you
know, I, I listened to myself a bit more.
Um, we're like, you have to have a coach that can do that too, because as a
fighter,
um, I feel like, uh, if I'm asked to something, I'm going to do it, you know?
And there are times where like my coach is going to be like, nah, nah, we're
good.
Like we only do the extra round, the extra two rounds.
Like you got it in today and you're healthy.
Like that's what we need.
Right.
Um, so like I, I have a lot of, uh, admiration for some of those, the coaches
at those big gyms,
but, uh, I feel like that what, what MMA is and how the teams are is kind of
one of our
detriments at the same time.
I think there's way too many, like, uh, like, you know, gym wars.
I think that they've, they've toned that shit down.
Um, you know, talking to other fighters and stuff like that.
I feel like it doesn't happen nearly as often as it used to.
Uh, but, uh, it's still, it's like, you got, you got two alphas, you know,
banging heads.
And, and, uh, like if you look at boxing and the model they have, it's, it's
usually just
a small, you know, couple of coaches and you, you pull professional sparring
partners in
and stuff like that.
So it's like, it's focused around the fighter.
Now, granted the pace, the pay is completely different.
And, and there's so much, there's so much, uh, so many differences between MMA
and boxing,
but I feel like, like that small, small tight knit group is, it's, it's good.
Like it's, there's obviously a benefit to having all sorts of bodies and styles
and all that
stuff.
But, uh, there's been some guys that have gotten very far with small gyms.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Stipe, right?
Like Stipe's gym is not a small gym, but it's, it's not like known as been a
place
where people move there and train there specifically because of that, um,
Olivera.
Yeah.
You know, Charles Olivera's gym is not known as being like a hotbed gym.
There's, there's got, and there's, there's two schools of thought, right?
There's a school of thought where you're better off in this giant ocean filled
with sharks.
And then the other school of thought is you're better off with specialized
individual
attention that's on you and your, your skillset.
I think that the latter is, you know, like look at, uh, Demetrius Johnson and GSP.
Right.
Like GSP wasn't going to fucking, you know, uh, open mat at, at Henzo's.
Like he's doing specific training for a specific opponent and same thing with
Demetrius Johnson.
Like he's not going with just every, everybody or like the new, the next killer.
But those two examples are examples of like elite coaches too.
Yeah.
Farras Ahabi and Matt Hume, you know, those, those two guys are like hugely
respected.
Yeah.
Veteran coaches.
Yeah.
Uh, the, the, the, the, like, you know, shark among shark thing is like I said,
it's, it's
great to have that there and there are times where like you need that little
bit of a push,
but man, I've seen so many fighters through the years that, that I've trained
with that
shit.
They, they could, they could hang in the UFC, but they didn't make it for, you
know, for
various reasons.
For various reasons.
And, and, you know, personal life stuff is probably, uh, a big thing, but a lot
of times
what ends up happening is that personal life stuff falls into, you know, finds
its way to
the, to the training map.
And then a couple of that bad days of training and it's like, fuck this, you
know, the guy
that I was used to, you know, pick them apart is beating the shit out of me.
Fuck it.
I'm done.
You know, like it's, uh, it's hard when you're young to have that vision too,
because if you
are getting picked apart, the idea that you're banking your future on this, you
know, maybe
you could go and be a fireman.
Maybe you can go and do this.
You might have other options and things you've been thinking about.
And then you keep getting lit up in the gym and you're like, what am I doing?
I'm not going to be a pro.
I'm not going to win a world title.
What am I doing?
And you just give up bad confidence or, you know, bad relationship.
Yeah.
Bad relationships are, that's a big one.
That's a big one.
I knew this one guy that right before his fights, his girl would start big, big
drama
with him right before his fights, like the night of the fight, she would leave
the hotel,
storm out and go down the bar and drink.
And it was like, oh my God.
And his coaches would be going crazy like to control this lady.
And, you know, and he's fucking the night before his big fight and she's down
at the
bar in the hotel, in the casino.
And he's like, what the fuck, man?
But it's like, there's certain people, male or female, that need exorbitant
amounts of
attention.
And when they feel like you're paying attention to you and this one goal, that
fight takes
away from them.
They're vampires.
And they're like, I'm not getting enough blood.
I'm going to have to go downstairs and get some other blood.
Yeah.
I mean, this really, right?
We know people like that, right?
We do.
We do, right?
Seen them plenty of times.
Oh my God.
Plenty of times.
It's horrible because you want to tell the guy like, you got to get out now.
Yeah.
Get out now and run.
Change your phone number and throw that old phone in the ocean.
Get the fuck out of here, man.
Move out in the middle of the night.
Don't let her know where you're going.
You got to go, man.
You got to go.
It's like, I mean, my wife and I, Angel, she's shit.
She bet on me, you know?
I mean, we're a team and I wouldn't be still fighting today without her, you
know?
It's been a long road.
Well, most guys like you that are super successful over long periods of time do
have a steady
relationship because it takes that factor out of the equation.
I think for fighting, it's very important.
I mean, you look at all these fighters that are elite and have done really well
for long
periods of time.
A lot of them are married.
Yeah.
A lot of them have families.
A lot.
They have, because that's like a stable home life.
Gives them comfort and security, like relaxes them.
The guys that are out chasing tail all night long, like, and dealing with, you
know, 50 different
DMs that you're juggling back and forth.
And like, those guys are crazy.
Like that, you're, you only have so much bandwidth in your life.
I don't understand how they do it.
They don't do it well.
No one does it well.
There might be a couple exceptions to that.
Maybe.
For a little while.
I've heard some stories.
But it's like guys who drink a lot, who also train and, you know, and then they,
they get
to a point where, you know, you're partying like a couple of days before the
fight and
you still pull it off.
Like, yeah, you're pulling it off, but you're not hitting your full potential.
There's no fucking way.
And if you fight somebody like you, the thing is, it's like, if you're an elite
fighter and
you can drink and you can party and you can still win, what if you fight
someone like you
who's not drinking, not partying, sleeping well, getting all their recovery in
and is doing
all the disciplined things that you need to be at, they're going to edge you or
they might
knock you out.
They might catch you.
They might catch you because you, even though you're a bad motherfucker, there's
a lot of
bad motherfuckers.
There are.
There's a lot.
And, and everybody's gotten off switch and every, like everybody can make a
mistake.
Everybody can get submitted.
Like, uh, fucking plenty of jujitsu black belt.
You throw strikes into the mix have been joked out.
So when, uh, Rodolfo Vieira got submitted, remember, uh, Hernandez caught him
in a guillotine
and we're like, no fucking way.
Like that tells you right there.
And that guy is a gorilla.
Yeah.
I mean, he is fucking jacked in an elite Brazilian jujitsu black belt.
And for him to get submitted, anybody can get submitted.
Jaco Ray got submitted.
Remember?
I mean, people get submitted.
Got his arm broke.
Got his arm broke.
Yeah.
I mean, he's just no joke, man.
That guy's terrifying.
Yeah.
Um, it's just, we're humans.
Yeah.
You know, the body's not designed for this.
So speaking of, we're humans, like, tell me about this Lyme disease thing, man.
Cause I'm terrified of Lyme disease.
Yeah.
It's a bitch.
Um, so I, uh, like 2015, uh, I started feeling like shit, you know?
And it was like joint pain was getting some, uh, like neuropathy.
I, I, I'd sit on the floor with my kids and my legs would fall asleep or, you
know, like
just positional shit.
And it's like, I, I fucked my neck up in 2014, uh, like 10 days before I fought
Yancy Medeiros.
Um, so I was like, okay, my neck's banged up.
Like, like bulging disc?
Like what?
Um, I don't even really know.
You didn't get an MRI?
No, I didn't get an MRI.
It was 10 days before the fight.
Uh, it was the most unspectacular thing.
It was like a whiplash injury.
Uh, I, uh, I was sparring, uh, Mickey golf when he was like 22, 21.
And, uh, he threw like a hook and I just clinched a body lock and my head hit
his, his chest.
And it just tweaked to my left.
And like, I felt it, I have it on video.
And it's like, I'm like shrugged my shoulders, moved my head around.
It was the last round of the day.
I was like, all right, this is going to hurt later, but we're going to get
through it.
Um, like I only got to that fight because of, you know, a chiropractor and his
magic fingers,
uh, and some Graston.
Uh, but, uh, so like a lot of the symptoms that I was getting, um, from the Lyme,
I attributed
to being a fighter.
I'm like, my knees hurt.
Well, of course they fucking hurt.
Like, uh, you know, I mean, to the point where I'd be 45 minutes into it.
A training session, I'd have to get up like an old man, push it on my knees and
stuff like
that.
It's getting, you know, numbness and tingling.
Uh, I was getting like brain fog and it was pretty good.
I, I kind of like go into a room sometimes and like go to like clean up and
just kind of
get lost.
Um, so, uh, before my fight at 196, um, like it got, it got so bad that I was
like, I was
contemplating retirement at UFC 200.
I was like, I'm going to get through 196.
I'm going to ask the fight on 200 to retire.
Um, and, uh.
And you did not know you had Lyme.
Did not know I had Lyme disease.
Um, you know, like I said, I, I, nervous system was, was kind of shot.
Um, joints were swollen.
I'd, I'd get some twitching in my eye was mostly where I'd get it.
It was just for like days on end.
Um, uh, very occasionally I would say the wrong word while I was speaking and
not even
anything close.
Like just the complete wrong word would come out.
Um, and you know, you'd notice and you're like, what the fuck did I just say?
Like, I hope they didn't notice.
Um, so I was telling my doctor about this, uh, before my pre fight physical, uh,
or during
my pre fight physical for 196.
And he's like, you know, he's like, honestly, I think you have Lyme disease.
And I was like, all right.
You know, so we, we ran some tests, tested me for Lyme.
Um, to this day, I, I still don't test positive.
It's about 50% of the people, uh, that have Lyme test positive for it.
Um, so he's like, uh, if it's Lyme disease, you know, and he's like, we, we ran
some other
tests.
There's some antibody that I had that showed an infection that they associate
sometimes
with Lyme.
Um, so he's like, we're going to put you on doxy.
And he's like, if, if you do have Lyme disease within, you know, a week, 10
days, he's like,
you're going to feel different.
You know, what is it called?
Doxine?
Doxycycline.
Um, so like I fight, uh, fight Diego.
And that was the first time, like I was, I was kind of out of it.
I barely trained for that fight.
Um, like I would, I would miss training sessions, like live grappling session,
just sparring sessions.
And like, cause I could barely get out of bed or like, uh, so I was, I, I would,
I would get
in maybe six sessions a week.
Um, you know, and kind of just focused on like, all right, well, just be in
shape, you know,
like I could run on the treadmill.
It's the easiest thing for me to do at that point was to run on the treadmill,
which is weird.
It's different than what most people experience.
Most people experience, uh, difficulty doing aerobic exercise and, uh, they can
do anaerobic stuff.
I couldn't do anaerobic stuff.
Like if I lifted, uh, or did sprints, I'd be banged up for fucking days.
Um, so, and, and that fight, like, I remember like when I, when I fight and I
think it, it has to do something with the lights too.
Like, I don't see the cage, like beyond the cage.
I don't see anybody in the stands.
I don't, I barely hear my fucking corner for crying out loud.
Um, so that fight, I, the whole, during the whole fight, I could see like
throughout in the stands, you know, I was so like unfocused, um, that like it
was just, it was a weird experience.
It's the only time that's ever happened to me.
Um, but I get out of the fight, uh, and, uh, and get on some doxycycline, uh,
the following week.
And it was like within a week or so, just like my doctor said, I started
feeling way fucking better.
Um, it took me a few years to figure out when exactly I got bit.
I had assumed that it was probably early 2015.
And then after learning about, uh, you know, the early symptoms of Lyme disease
and pulling my head out of my ass and remembering the experience that I had in
2013, it, I'm, I'm pretty much a hundred percent confident that I was bitten.
Like late May, early June of 2013.
What makes you think that?
Uh, I had a period of time where I was like, I basically had morning sickness.
I was extremely nauseous in the morning.
Um, and, and like early Lyme, it's like flu-like symptoms and, and, and migraines
and stuff like that.
And so I had really bad nausea.
Like if I picked up my coffee cup and I was like breathing in and I got a big
whiff of my coffee, it would make me gag.
Uh, yeah.
Uh, like brushing my teeth.
I'd fuck, just take the taste of like toothpaste would make me gag.
Uh, I had two kids in, in diapers at the time.
Every time bringing the frigging garbage out.
Oh man.
I'd be dry heaving the whole way down the, down the driveway for like two weeks.
And I was like, my kids are in daycare.
I think my, my niece had like rotavirus or something at the time.
I was like, I got a stomach bug, like whatever.
Um, and then I got, uh, a series of migraines.
Like right kind of as the, the nausea was dying down.
I got, I don't know.
I think it was like seven migraines in 10 days or something like that.
So I went to a neurologist and ENT, ran a bunch of tests.
They tested me for Lyme, tested negative.
Uh, they couldn't find anything.
So they're like, Hey, let's just, we're going to, we're going to kick the ball
down the road a little bit.
See if it comes back and, you know, uh, and, and figure out what we can do.
Um, so that, I kind of forgot about that.
Um, and, uh, after, you know, kind of educating myself on Lyme after I, uh, you
know, was diagnosed, uh, I was like, ah, maybe, you know, maybe that's when it
was.
Um, but it took, it took a while to get over it.
Cause it was, you know, just about three years that it had untreated.
Uh, you know, and, and the bacteria is a sneaky little bitch.
Uh, they call it the great imitator cause it can give everybody completely
different symptoms.
Um, and it can pass the blood brain barrier and, and this, all this other shit,
you know?
Um, it also has a, uh, like a toxin in the cell wall of it.
Um, so if you kill too much of it at one time, uh, or in a short period of time,
you experience what's called like the Herxheimer reaction, uh, which is
basically you're being like poisoned by the death of the Lyme bacteria.
Yeah, it's a, it's a shitty, it makes it, it makes you, it's, it's a fucking
amazing thing because it's like, here's this little thing that this little
bacteria that when it dies, it makes you change what you're doing so that you
don't like, it's a getting over Lyme is especially like, like untreated for a
while is a marathon.
And I'm not good at that shit.
Um, so like I, I was on doc cycling for six months.
Um, you know, I, I ended up six months.
Yeah.
And then it's a, that's an antibiotic.
Yeah.
It's an antibiotic.
I was, I was, I was, I was shitting like four to five times before noon.
I mean, in, in 2016, so leading up to like, I started to lose a little weight
in 2015, but, uh, I used to walk just under a buck 90.
Um, after that first six months on doc cycling, I will, I was walking around at
163 pounds, uh, before the Tiago Alves fight.
Whoa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I lost a fuck ton of muscle.
And of course it's like, oh, it's USADA.
Jim's off the sauce.
You know, it's like, no, I'm pooping so much.
Like you have no idea, uh, that I just can't keep up with it.
But, um,
But you were still fighting.
I was still fighting.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
So, but that's not, we're not even.
Done, Joe.
So, uh, I was on it for six months and, uh, I felt way better, you know, that
was whatever it was, uh, September.
Um, then I did, you know, in, in March.
So I was like, Hey doc, like, do you think we can, you know, get off of the
antibiotics?
And he's like, yeah, let's give it a try.
And it was about seven weeks.
And then I started to feel like my symptoms were coming back.
Um, and then me being an asshole and like, no, no, they're not like, it's, it's
not, it's not the Lyme again.
So like, I kind of waited and by the end of the year, uh, it fucking kicked my
ass.
Um, like leading up into, uh, what was that?
208, uh, when I fought Dustin, like that was, that was the hardest couple of
weeks before a fight that I've, I've ever had.
Like I, I, because I was trying to get back on the doxycycline, I was trying to,
to supplement even way better.
And, you know, you're not supposed to take it within two hours, like two hours
before, two hours after supplements and stuff like that.
And like, I don't like working out with food in my stomach.
So, and I can't take the doxy on an empty stomach because it then, you know,
makes my stomach upset.
So, uh, so I was like trying to figure out like the best way to get back on it.
And it just kept kicking my butt and kicking my butt.
Um, finally, like, I don't know, maybe two weeks before the fight, I started to
kind of get it, get it dialed in.
Uh, and then unfortunately I was like fight week.
I was, uh, I was having a Herx, uh, reaction and, and, uh, it was a really
weird experience getting, uh, I was, I was having like muscle tremors when I
was cutting weight.
So like I was sitting there.
Oh, like punching?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I couldn't stop.
Couldn't stop my arm from moving.
Uh, like my, my, my vision was a little messed up and I don't know if it was
the lights or whatever, but like when I fought Dustin that night, like every,
to me, like everything kind of had like a, a yellow hue to it.
It was weird.
Um, and I don't know if that was just my eyes being weird or what, but.
So this is the side effect of the virus exuding a poison?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Cause I, I finally like kind of figured it out, uh, like right, right before
that fight.
Um, so then like 2017 was, uh, like I was still dealing with it and it, it was,
it was difficult.
Like the first half of the year was pretty difficult.
Um, and then like through the, through the summer, um, it's, it started to like
get a lot better for me.
Uh, you know, I, I changed my diet.
I started eating a lot, like a lot better food.
I mean, like when I first found that I had Lyme, I, we were trying to like kind
of adhere to the Lyme diet.
You know, the Lyme, Lyme diet is like basically a paleo.
It's a, it's an inflammatory disease.
So avoiding alcohol, sugar, gluten, uh, dairy, stuff like that.
But it's like, I also had a bunch of little kids and it's like, well, if I'm
making my food and trying to make their food,
so they're not eating mac and cheese, hot dogs and chicken fingers every day,
like this is going to be really fucking hard.
So, you know, like I've never like adhered to that diet, like specifically, but
totally eat a ton more like whole foods and vegetables and shit like that now.
So, uh, and definitely like I eat way or drink way less, you know?
So how did you get off of it?
How did you kill the Lyme?
Is it, is it a hundred percent done or do you still have like relapses?
I haven't had a relapse, uh, since, yeah, about 2017.
Yeah.
Oh, that's nice.
So five fucking years of freedom.
Yeah.
Um, so you went through it for a sense, essentially like a solid four years?
A few years.
Yeah.
So it was, uh, well, like it, it took a while for it to start kicking my butt,
you know?
Like I had that first instance in 2013 when it was, when I first got bit, but
then like, I couldn't really tell anything, you know?
But if you had gotten on antibiotics right then, you probably could have killed
it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Three to three to four weeks, uh, is usually, um, what doctors will, uh, you
know, prescribe.
Uh, and if you catch it early, you usually fare pretty well with it.
Um, but like, yeah, it was, uh, I mean, 2017, I didn't feel like I could start
really like, excuse me, uh, like pushing myself and, and, and sprinting and
lifting again until like maybe April of 2018.
Wow.
Um, and then I was still on Doxy through that period of time.
So I, I basically, I took it for about two years.
Uh, like, so I had a six month period, like eight weeks off.
Well, a little more than eight weeks off, but, uh, you know, a couple months
off and then basically two years.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
That's a lot.
It is a lot.
And I, I, what, what, what made me completely stop, I kind of had figured it,
like figured out how to, you know, the diet and all that stuff.
Right.
Um, and with the meds and the, and, and supplements, um, and I ended up getting
the stomach bug was going around.
So the last time that I took DoxyCycline was, uh, New Year's Eve, 2018.
Uh, I rung in the new year, puking my brains out.
And I was like, like, I can't, I can't do this anymore.
Like it was like, it was a, you know, a bad one.
And it's like, that's it.
That's, I haven't, I haven't taken Doxy since.
Did you have to take probiotics while you were taking that to help your gut
health?
Yeah.
What stuff did you take?
Um, I took a few over the years.
Um, a couple of the, yeah, a couple of different brands.
I was trying to.
What about like fermented foods?
Yeah.
Kimchi and stuff like that.
Yeah.
Like right after that, like when I was sick, uh, with that, with that stomach
bug, like,
yeah, it was like, uh, kefir and yogurt.
And like, that's all I ate for like a couple of weeks was, was, uh, anything
fermented sauerkraut,
you know, unpasteurized sauerkraut and like kimchi and shit.
It was like, it was, uh, I was a ball of gas, but, but yeah, I felt like it
kind of kickstarted
me into like a little bit repairing maybe some of the damage.
I don't know if I totally did, but, uh, yeah, it was, uh, it was a, it was a
long fucking
road, you know, and, uh, it's, it's, it's such a shitty thing.
Cause it's like, since people don't always test positive for it, it's hard to
get diagnosed
with it.
Um, and you have to like, I mean, some doctors don't, they don't like, uh, it's
not that they
don't understand.
It's that they don't necessarily appreciate what, what everybody's going
through.
And there's like two, kind of two schools of thought with it.
There's a lot that say, Hey, you know, it doesn't matter how long you've had it,
three
weeks of doc cycling is going to kill it.
And then there's the other side.
It's like, no, like it, it can be fucking stubborn.
Um, you know, and it's, uh, for, for me, it was easy because I was the one
fighting it.
Like I'll fucking, I'll deal with anything, you know?
Uh, it, the scary part is like my kids, like, like fuck, man.
Like I, it, it, I don't, I don't want them to have to, you know, deal with the
bullshit.
Like I'm, I'm used to being in pain, you know, like I'm used to being
uncomfortable because
it's like, I, I appreciate it being a, being a lifelong athlete.
It's like, Oh yeah, my, my knees are sore.
My back is sore.
It's like, it's supposed to be like that.
Cause it means I went hard yesterday.
Right.
Right.
You know, like, uh, I, I've, I've had the, the opportunity to meet a lot of
people that,
uh, have been super, uh, like super tough and, and, uh, you know, elegantly
fought this thing.
Um, it's a, it's a, it's a shitty, shitty little thing, you know, ticks are assholes
and
they're fucking everywhere too.
It's so common on the East coast.
I know so many people that have Lyme disease.
Yeah.
And do you know what more jellins is?
You ever hear of that?
No.
More jellins is a disease that they don't even know if it's real.
And, uh, I had to interview these people once at a more jellins conference.
And it's, it's very strange because they feel like they have fiber growing out
of their body
and they have like these, they, they start itching themselves and they, they
hallucinate.
But one of the people that I talked to was a doctor and he also has more jellins.
And he said, but one thing that we all have in common is, he goes, most of
these people
also have Lyme disease.
It's the, they're the links between Lyme and, uh, like ALS and, and some other
stuff.
It's like, it's fucking wild.
Oh, that makes sense, right?
It's crazy.
It's got neurological issues.
Yeah.
Well, what he was saying is that it's neurotoxic and that when you say Lyme
disease, like if
a tick carries Lyme, the way he was describing it to me, it's like, it's not as
if it's like
you can isolate a compound and that compound is Lyme.
He said, depending on the tick, it could have a host of different toxins along
with this one
that we consider Lyme.
It's not one thing.
And he said the Lyme disease itself, like when people have Lyme, one of the,
one of
the symptoms is this neurotoxicity and that in neurotoxicity, he believes that
it can trigger
hallucinations.
So he was seeing like things moving across his eyes, like he would look at
himself in the
mirror and he thought he saw like a worm moving across his eyelids.
So like these people, they start scratching themselves and they itch like
little holes in
their skin and then you get carpet fibers or like in, you know, dog hair or
something on
it.
And you think you're growing hairs out of these fibers.
And part of it is because you're kind of hallucinating and he, this is very
controversial.
I'm not sure if this is right or wrong, but it made sense when he was saying it
that everybody
who he knows who has a large percentage of them, of course, in your situation,
you didn't
even test positive for Lyme, but he was saying a lot of these people also have
Lyme disease.
Yeah, there's, there are a lot of like, I know of a lot of like co-infections,
right?
So the, I always hack up the name.
It's like Boreal, Boreali or whatever is the, the, the typical like Lyme
bacteria.
But sometimes there, there are certain types of like mold that, that create
sensitivities
and, um, I mean, shit, you get what this, the, the Lone Star tick with, uh, you,
you get
allergic to red meat.
It's like alpha gal.
My friend Evan has that.
Yeah.
Evan Haver.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, yeah, he was, uh, we were hunting together and he told, he couldn't
eat red meat.
I was like, what are you saying?
Yeah.
We've talked about it a little bit.
Sucks.
Yeah.
It's bad.
Fuck that.
I know that would be the worst.
That's 80% of my diet.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, and, and he just, he shot a giant elk too.
So there's like 400 pounds of red meat that you can't eat.
I, I haven't asked him like, what were your symptoms?
Right.
Like, is it worth it?
Like, could you tough that out?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's bad.
Yeah.
I think it's pretty bad.
You get a little itchy or like, you know, it does your, your asshole prolapse.
Like one of my kids is allergic to dairy, but she'll take like a lactate if she
wants
ice cream and just fart it out.
And she had no idea why she was so farty.
Then we realized we had to take her to run some tests and she has like a
legitimate allergy
to lactose.
My, my, my oldest, when she was born, she was lactose intolerant.
So she like was just fussy.
We didn't figure it out until like we, we put her on like a, even though I hate
it, we
put her on soy formula and it was like day and night all of a sudden she's
sleeping.
And like, and then my youngest, he was lactose intolerant for, I don't know,
like maybe the
first year or so.
Um, and then he kind of grew out of it.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
My middle daughter was like that too.
She, we, um, gave her milk one time and she threw it up all over the place.
And I was like, that's interesting.
You know, like what, what is the, what's going on?
Like formula with milk, like milk formula.
She couldn't tolerate it, but breast milk, no problem.
And, um, then as she got older, it went away, but now she just avoids it.
And, you know, that's, it's nice when your kids eat healthy.
Yeah.
You know, my kids eat healthy, fortunately, but man, it's so, it would be a
trip when I,
like we, like one of their friends would stay over and you know, you'd have to
feed them.
And you're like, what do you eat?
Like you don't eat that.
You know, it's like, can you give me pasta with butter?
Like that's all you eat?
Yeah.
Like you, okay.
I'll, you know, we can definitely have pasta with butter, but I need you to
know that there's
nothing in there.
Like there's no protein in there.
There's no vitamins in there.
Like you're not getting any real food.
My kids are good.
Like they, they, they have their picky moment, except for Wyatt, my, uh, my 10
year old,
that kid will eat anything and he will out eat the both of us combined.
And he's like, you know, uh, I mean, he's a, he's a decently sized kid, but
like, you
know, he's strong as an ox.
Uh, he's not like a huge kid, like, and he will eat like a man.
And he always has, he always has.
He's like four years old.
Isn't it weird how different they are out of the box?
The personalities are different.
Everything's different.
Same household, same parents, same rules.
They, they come out of the womb different.
I mean, I used to think I was more skeptical of the nature and I thought it was
much more
nurture with the way kids' personalities are formed.
But watching my own kids, they're so damn different from the jump.
Yeah.
My, so, so my oldest, like I didn't, I didn't read any books.
I didn't like, I was like, it's a baby.
We're going to, we're going to figure it out.
Right.
You know, like be cool with it.
Like, how hard can it be?
Like she was, when she was born, uh, she had, I don't know, probably three,
four inch long,
like black hair.
She had, she had hair on her arms and legs.
She had Popeye.
When she was born?
Yeah.
When she was born.
She had hair on her legs?
Yeah.
Like Popeye forearms and calves.
She was a, she was a, like a little monkey.
Like, like she, she popped out and I was like, holy shit.
I have a picture of her at a day old holding her head up.
Whoa.
Yeah.
She's laying on my chest.
I'm doing like the, you know, the skin to skin thing.
And my wife snapped and she like picks her head up and I'm like, what the fuck?
You know, the other three, like total newborn baby, like, you know, loose head
and all that
stuff.
And it was like a complete trip going from her who, I mean, as soon as she
could stand,
she could run and jump.
Wow.
Like she was just, she was born at three months old.
It was like, it was crazy.
Uh, that's wild.
Yeah.
And she's shit.
So she's a let, well, she'd be 12, uh, in like a month.
And a half.
And she's as tall as I was when I was like 16.
Wow.
Like, like she's totally going to be taller than me.
I mean, my, my dad is, well, was six, four before he, you know, squished all
his discs.
How old is she now though?
She's 12.
Just about 12.
That's usually when they hit periods, right?
12, 13.
We don't want to go over that.
Yeah, I know.
Believe me, I've been through it.
Um, but when they do that, that's when they kind of stop growing.
Yeah.
For girls, boys keep going.
Boys keep going until they're sometimes like 19.
Yeah.
It's, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's wild.
The, the difference.
So I got girl, boy, girl, boy.
Your dad is, was your dad a wrestler as well?
No, no.
My dad, uh, I think he wrestled like one or two years, but like he, uh, he
could have,
he probably could have played football.
He was a, he was a big dude.
Um.
How did he smush his discs?
Carrying heavy shit.
Like, uh, my dad, my dad is, uh, he still is today, just in a different way.
But, uh, he, like growing up, he was a cartoon character.
Like I was looking through some pictures and I, I, I posted one, uh, a couple
of weeks ago.
He, he looks like fucking Mr. Incredible from the, the cartoon movie.
You know, the Pixar, like his head is just fucking this giant block.
And like the one picture, I mean, he's got the 80 shirt and it's like a, like a
V neck or something.
And it's just this big plume of fucking black chest hair coming out.
And it's like, dude, like he was, yeah, he was six, four, two 40, like just, it's
towered above everybody.
And everybody always do thought he was, everybody thought he was like bigger
than that.
Like, it's okay.
Sick.
You know, I've met plenty of people who were bigger than he was, but he had
this like presence that he was like seven foot tall and, you know, 500 pounds.
Like, uh, but yeah, he used to, he used to carry just stupid shit.
Did he get his discs fused?
No, no.
They're just still kind of fucking a little.
That's a shit design.
Yeah.
Disc is a shit design because it's one of the things that goes in fighters and
wrestlers and jujitsu people more than anything.
Everyone I know that does jujitsu has disc issues after a while and just hit a
point where something's wrong.
Yeah.
He, he, he definitely like exacerbated those issues.
Like I've seen him.
So, uh, used to, um, do like residential framing, you know, like skeleton of
the house and, um, this one builder that he used to work for, a guy was a
little tiny Italian guy, was a bit of an asshole.
Um, he wouldn't like backfill the houses to, to, to the foundation.
So it was, you had like one spot to maybe bring lumber in, uh, to, to the, you
know, the foundation.
So when we're doing the beams in the basement, um, like you'd have this 40 foot
beam that weighs 800 pounds and it's like, you really don't have a good way to
get it across the fucking, to the other side.
So that motherfucker would cinch his tool belt tight, tall enough, his shoulder
just fit right where the middle of the beam was.
And he would pick that fucking shit up and walk across the stone, you know,
three quarter gravel stone basement.
Uh, get to the other end, lean back a little bit, lift it up and put it on the
side.
And it's like 800 pounds.
800 pounds.
Yeah.
We, we dragged 800 pounds.
He carried 800 pounds.
Carried like off the ground, off, off the ground.
Yeah.
Yep.
That's insane.
It is insane.
He's a, that sounds like one of the strongest humans has ever lived.
He's, he, he's got some stories, but how long is the beam?
40 feet.
How is that possible?
The 20, so we, we weighed it.
So every foot weighed like 19 and just under 20 pounds.
So he's in the center of this?
Yep.
Bouncing on his shoulder.
800 pounds.
Yeah.
800 pounds.
It's fucking wild.
That's crazy.
It's almost hard to believe.
It is hard to believe.
I've, I've seen him almost die a few times too because he's doing stupid shit.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
There were a couple of occasions where it's like, oh fuck, you know, like he's
not going to be moving.
The, uh, one time we were, we were raising a great room wall.
So it was two by six.
Uh, wall and, and, uh, we had this machine, this rough terrain, uh, forklift.
And it was the biggest piece of shit.
Like company colors were rust.
Like that's, you know, like we, we weren't, we didn't, we didn't have a shit
ton of money growing up.
Uh, so like he, it saved so much time having this forklift when, um, so he buys
this thing.
It had a, it had an old straight six from a, uh, I think it was a six, might've
been a four, from a jeep that was, um, taken by the Nazis in World War II and
actually had a swastika welded onto the case of it.
Whoa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like he found this thing in a junkyard and like, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, and it was like the big, like it was the biggest piece of shit, but it
saved us so much time, like getting stuff up to the second floor and all that
shit.
Um, so it would, it got to a point where it would just constantly stall.
It had zero breaks.
Um, so he's lifting this wall and, uh, or going to lift this wall in like kind
of position.
And so we had it laid out.
So you got these two by sixes and there's like the king stud, which runs up
where the header is, you know, the big piece that like over the windows and,
and fireplace.
Um, and, uh, and then like liners.
So it was like, I think it was three, I think it was three two by sixes.
Um, so he's driving, it's got this tiny little cage, like over top of it and it
stalls.
So the machine starts rolling backwards and these, these two by sixes get
caught on the back of the cage and like it's winding back.
And my brothers and I are up on the second floor and we started fucking
screaming at him because you see it just like winding up.
So he like looks and he sees it and he throws his head down as hard as he can
as the, as the two by six slides off.
And it was like a Sammy Sosa, 450 yard bomb, like crack.
And it's like, I'm jumping off the second floor.
You know, my brothers are sliding down, uh, the, the, the studs to get down to
the floor.
Like, and he rolls out, he rolls out and he like gets up.
The machine rolls into the woods and he's like, fuck it.
You know, it starts swearing.
He's like Yosemite Sam, you know, bumps anything, starts swearing like a, like
a sailor.
Uh, and it's like, you're standing up like, what the fuck?
Like you should be dead.
Like you should literally, your brain should be like 20 feet that way.
Wow.
Uh, yeah.
So he ended up, you know, this back of his head ended up swelling up pretty
good, but he was okay.
You know, concussion, but like, okay.
You come from durable genes.
Yeah, dude, like he actually, he actually got a, an MRI, uh, a few years later.
Uh, and the doctor's like, you know, he's like, you know, your brain looks good
and everything.
He's like, you know, one, one interesting thing is that, uh, for the size of
your head, your brain is kind of small.
He's like, you're, so you're telling me I've got a BB in a box car.
He's like, pretty much.
Wow, that's weird.
He's got Homer Simpsonitis.
So it's like, he's just got an extra thick layer of bone around his head.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
So there have been a couple others that were like, dude, saw him cut himself
with a chainsaw once.
That was exciting.
Oh, Jesus.
Yeah.
It's funny how some people are just born more durable.
You know, like, um, do you ever see, um, when they, uh, examine Marvin Hagler's
head?
No.
Marvin Hagler, who's one of the greatest boxers of all time, one of my favorite
all-time boxers.
Marvin had muscle on the outside of his head, like, like headgear.
Yeah.
They said the size of the muscle outside of his head was far larger than a
normal person.
Yeah.
Like, unusually large.
To the point where it's literally like he had, like, a cushion on the side of
his head.
So weird.
That's wild, yeah.
Well, he also had a tremendous chin anyway.
He was only knocked down once ever in his whole career, but it was a bullshit
knockdown.
Um, God, I forget it.
Juan Roldan.
Okay.
I'm pretty sure it was Juan Roldan, but it was a, it was a fake knockdown.
Like, it should have been a slip, and they called it a knockdown.
It's like, man.
It, it, it sucked, because, like, you go and watch the punches he absorbed from,
like, murderous knockout punchers, like John the Beast Mugabe.
No, you know, Tommy Hearns.
Yeah.
It never goes down.
And this one slip, it was almost like the guy, like, he cuffed him in the back
and kind of pushed him down.
But his head, he had built in, they, this, like, these muscles right here, like,
the mandible muscles, they were, like, extra thick.
That's the, like, that's the, the fucked up part is that my head is just as big
around as my dad's.
And he's eight inches, you know, eight inches taller than me.
And it's, like, I could take my hat and plop it onto his head.
That's crazy.
It's, like, I, if I didn't have, like, you know, a hunched over, you know, Quasimodo
posture, I'd probably look like a lollipop.
You know, it's, uh, but, yeah, he, he, fucking, his, his head is super.
Do you ever go back and look at your career and go, man, what would have
happened if I didn't have that fucking Lyme disease?
Um, no, not really.
Just deal with it?
Yeah, just deal with it.
Um, I'm, I'm not that type.
Uh, I, I'm, I'm good at what's right in front of me, like, going forward.
Um, you know, I mean, even, even with the positive shit, you know, it's, like,
okay.
You gotta be that way if you're that way with the negative shit.
Yeah, like, okay, that's good, that's awesome.
You know, like, oh, I won, I won, I won a bonus, and, you know, I made a bunch
of money.
Great, when's the next one?
Like, what's next?
Right.
Um, you know, like, I've obviously, like, they're, they're a couple.
There's a couple fights where it's like, I'd like that one back.
Mm, right.
You know, I don't have a time machine, so.
What are you gonna do?
Yeah.
Um, what is this booze you brought?
What is going on here?
Tell me about this.
Um.
You make your own booze now.
Well, I, I haven't in a little bit.
These are actually, well, that is, uh, so this one right here is, uh, a coffee,
coffee liqueur,
like, uh, basically a, uh, a cold brew, an alcohol cold brew.
Um.
Like a Kahlua type deal?
It's less syrupy than Kahlua.
So, I make one.
Back that bitch open.
Let's find out what's up.
I make one.
They're better cold than they're not.
They're not very cold.
Yeah.
Well, maybe it's better to have it when it's not cold.
So, you see how good it really is.
Eh.
So, yeah.
So, this.
It's, uh.
Should we get ice cubes?
Or should we just drink it like this?
Let's try it.
All right.
Let me try it.
All right.
Pour a little of that.
All right.
Let's see what's up.
I don't want it.
So, how did you learn how to do this?
Um.
I just read stuff.
And, uh.
And just started practicing?
Yeah.
You know what?
Reading comprehension.
It fucking works.
How does one learn how to make a coffee liqueur?
Cheers, sir.
Cheers.
So, this one.
Uh.
This one I made up the recipe myself.
Whoa.
That's an acquired taste.
That is not that bad.
When I first make it, it's pretty hot.
When it's cold, like I said, it'll be.
It's not bad, though.
It's interesting.
It's got a.
It is like a liqueur.
Yeah.
Like a.
I guess like a Kahlua-ish, but not.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Essentially, this one is just like some cold brew with some other stuff in it.
And then some Everclear.
Is that what you add to it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because it's highly alcoholic.
And it doesn't affect the flavor.
Do you make your own Everclear?
No.
No.
I can't.
Oh, jeez.
Jesus.
No, that was an inadvertent cough.
I think I have allergies now.
That's the thing about moving to Austin is they say you develop allergies.
You got any allergies, Jamie?
Yeah.
Sure.
Did you get them before you came?
I had them.
I lived in Ohio a long time.
Yeah.
Some weird stuff.
I'm starting to get like.
I'll get like runny nose and I think I'm sick, but then I work out and I feel
great.
Yeah.
I'm like, hmm.
I think this is a fucking allergy.
Because the pollen's in the air.
Like I went out to my car.
I have a black truck.
It was covered with like yellow stuff.
Like this is wild.
So much fucking pollen.
I didn't get, I didn't, I got to like 26 before I experienced any allergies and
then I broke
my nose and my septum's mushed to the side.
So now I have like a constant post nasal drip and it's like I experienced a
little bit of
allergies.
When you retire, are you going to get that fixed?
I am.
After seeing Dudley's pictures, it's like, oh shit.
Oh, I told him to do it.
I got mine done.
Yeah.
Man, it was the greatest fucking thing.
I fell down a flight of stairs when I was five and I think from then on, I've
never had
a nose.
Yeah.
Like my nose has been useless.
And then obviously all the years of combat sports and I broke it, I don't know
how many
times.
Yeah.
And then I got it fixed.
And when I got it fixed, it was all of a sudden like, oh shit.
I got full, like I used to go to yoga class and they'd go breathe out of your
nose.
And I'm like, that's not possible.
My nose doesn't work.
I had no nose.
And you could hear my voice back then.
It was a different voice.
It was a more nasally voice.
And it just changed everything.
Changed my cardio.
Yeah.
My cardio went up a solid 10%.
Oh wow.
Like immediately.
I was like, this is wild.
Like I was like mouth breather.
I was a mouth breather.
There's a lot of people that are mouth breathers.
Yeah.
You know, like Justin Gaethje, you hear him talk.
Yeah.
It's just, every time he talks, it sounds like this.
Like he's just stuffed up.
Yeah.
All the wars.
Because he can get scar tissue in there too.
That's what I didn't understand is that the way the doctor was describing it to
me,
he said, it's just like cauliflower ear.
And you get cauliflower ear and you get all the blood pools and it calcifies
and it becomes
hard.
He goes, that shit happens on the inside of your nose.
He didn't say that shit.
But he said, that happens on the inside of your nose.
It happens on the inside of your nose as well.
I'm just like, really?
Yeah.
He's like, yeah, your nose is a disaster area.
Wow.
He's like, you have like maybe one eighth of one nostril.
So the rest of your nose is totally closed.
Ugh.
I was like, oh.
Yeah.
Because one side on my left side, I go, I could get a little, and the right
side was
just junk, just garbage.
There's nothing going on in that side.
Funny thing about cauliflower ear.
So the only time I've ever seen that, so when I fought Frankie, like he's
beaten me, you
know?
So I go into the third round and I'm like, I just got to do something big.
So I rip a left high kick.
And of course I don't hit him in the temple.
I don't hit him in the chin.
I hit him like right across the cheekbone and the ear.
So his calcified cauliflower ear rips open and this chunk of like rock shit,
yeah, goes flying
over to the other side of the cage.
And like one of the state athletic guys like scoops it up.
They ended up, his old coach like took it and put it in formaldehyde and shit
like that.
How big was the chunk?
I think it was like, you know, maybe the size of a nickel.
Wow.
Yeah.
So that was right before tryouts for UFC, uh, they're, uh, rather tough, uh,
five.
So like, I think it was like three weeks prior.
So like we go down there, my eye is bloodshot red still.
And his, his fricking ear is as black as his mug.
It looks like it was going to fall off.
Oh my God.
Cauliflower ear is so nasty.
Yeah.
I've, there was one MMA fight in Japan.
I forget who was fighting, but a chunk fell off.
That was the size of a fucking silver dollar.
It was his giant chunk of this dude's ear fell off.
And there was a photo of it on the canvas.
And it was like missing from his ear and there's blood pouring out of the side
of his head.
Because it's basically a rock.
Yeah.
Like you don't have much.
You don't have much cauliflower.
No, not too bad.
Not too bad.
Like Randy.
Yeah.
Randy Couture.
He's got goddamn gophers living in his ears.
I mean, they're just huge lumps.
Yeah.
And that is a rock.
It's a calcified rock.
Randy told me that he would rub it in guys' eyes.
Like when he'd take guys down, like he would like shove it into their eye
socket.
And like, it's basically like a rock in your eye as he's taking you down.
Really a point of leverage.
Yeah.
Kind of makes sense, right?
I mean, I guess it's a, I feel like it makes your ear a little more fragile.
It does.
Right?
So like, you might dig it into his eye and then rip your ear off.
Yeah, it does.
Jessica, I fought.
Yeah.
Man, who's the woman she fought?
Laura.
God damn it.
Yeah, you're asking her.
I'm sorry.
I'm not good with names.
Pulled Jessica Eye's career up.
She, they stopped it.
They stopped the fight because her ear was hanging off.
Leslie Smith.
Leslie Smith.
Thank you.
Why did I say Laura?
Leslie Smith.
So Jessica Eye hits her and it splatters and we see this hole.
There it is.
Yeah.
It's like basically hanging off.
Like, look at that.
There's a hole in her head.
And Leslie Smith's so tough.
She didn't, look at that.
That's the splatter.
She did not want to stop the fight.
Didn't that, that happened to James Thompson too, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
But that was a, that was cauliflower.
Or his pop, like liquid pop.
Yeah, that was liquid.
Yeah.
It was just, it wasn't cauliflower yet and it popped and they stopped the fight
and we're
like, what are you doing?
You can't stop that.
It's funny, like what someone will stop and won't stop a fight for, you know?
Yeah.
It, it's, that's another one.
Like, you know, the, the cage side doctors, it's like, you have to try to make
a call.
Yeah, there it is.
So, oh boy.
Yeah.
It was, it was bleeding pretty bad.
Yeah.
But it's still, it's like, oh.
Oh, well, he, you know what?
He could have stopped the fight for that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's better.
Oof.
He could have stopped the fight just for that.
It's like, it's a fucking referee.
That was big.
That's funny.
That's big Dan.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that was a lot of blood coming out of his ear.
But I think the punch that Kimbo hit him with was the, was worth the knockout.
Yeah.
That's, you know, the ear thing is weird because that fucks with your hearing.
Mm-hmm.
Like, if you take your ear and you bend it over and listen to things like that,
it sounds different.
Yeah.
And then you pop it open, boink, and now you hear everything.
Yeah.
Like, that's how you're supposed to hear.
Yeah.
Like, the ear's designed that way for a reason.
Yeah.
So, I, like, never wore headgear as a wrestler.
Ever.
You know, like, I'd have to for matches, but at practice, I never wore it.
Never got codifier.
I'm training for my first fight, and all of a sudden, it's like, my right ear
starts puffing up, you know?
So, I get through the fight, and it's like a golf ball, you know, on the side
of my head.
So, my brother, my brother, my oldest brother, excuse me, is a veterinarian.
So, at the time, he was in vet school down at UPenn, so it was two hours away
from us.
So, he comes up for Thanksgiving, a weekend before Thanksgiving, and drains it.
He's also stitched me up a couple times on my parents' couch before some of
those earlier fights when I got cut in training.
But the Athletic Commission doesn't need to know about that.
So, he drains it.
It was like Wednesday night.
Drains it.
Thanksgiving, I'm fucking around with Dan, rolling around on the floor, and he
just goes, and smushes it.
Oh, no.
Like, before his eyes, it swells right back up.
So, when it swelled up, again, it covered the hole in my ear.
So, a few days later, I ended up getting, like, a swimmer's ear infection.
And that was, like, top two most painful things, like, that have, I guess,
lasted.
I'm sure that I've done some things that, like, hurt instantly, like, a lot
more.
But, like, the whole side of my neck was swollen.
I go to a urgent care, and the guy, instead of, like, drawing it out and bolstering
it and stuff like that, like you're supposed to do, he just lances it, cuts my
ear open.
Oh, Jesus.
Squeezes the shit out and, like, gauzes my ear to my head.
And I'm like, dude, like, I've got a fucking infection in my ear.
I can't turn my head.
Didn't give me any antibiotics or anything like that.
Wow.
Like, sends me out of there.
I'm like, you're a prick.
So, I ended up going to, you know, a specialist.
I had fucking no money going to the specialist.
And he ended up doing it right, you know, putting a wick in there.
I couldn't hear anything for, like, three weeks.
Oh, my God.
I'd be driving to practice, and Dan would be talking.
And all I could hear was the speaker, you know, on my left side.
And, like, he's having a conversation.
And it's nothing, absolutely nothing, you know.
And then, like, since that, I get little, you know, I've gotten a couple little
ones.
But, like, when mine is swelled up and, like, liquid, it's never hurt me.
A lot of people complain about the pain from that.
But I've never had them be, like, bruised and sore.
But, like, never, like, the cauliflower, when it's growing, like, has hurt.
But that infection fucking, that hurt like a bit.
Yeah, man.
It's funny how vulnerable your ears are.
Like, your equilibrium gets all fucked up, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Actually, mine are still healing.
I was out in Utah last week at the Traeger event.
And it was so loud.
Like, I kind of partially, like, blew my ear out a little bit at this party.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
It was that loud?
It was that loud.
So, for a few days, it's kind of going away.
But, like, higher-pitched noises sound like they're behind me.
Do you have a thing from gunshots?
No, because I wear my ear pro.
You always do?
Well, I mean, not when I'm, like, hunting or anything like that.
But if I'm shooting.
Right.
Yeah, I'm wearing a ear pro.
I know a lot of guys that are hunters that have fucked up ears because of –
in the early – especially guys who've been doing it a long time because they
didn't realize back in the day that you get ear damage from gunshots.
Yeah, it's – I mean, sometimes it's, like, I don't wear anything, like, when
I'm pheasant hunting.
And sometimes you shoot a decent amount of times.
But, like, the shotgun is not as bad.
Sometimes when I'm shooting, like, if I have to shoot – or I decide not have
to shoot.
I haven't had to shoot my rifle or, you know, one of my rifles or the handguns.
But, like, they're a little sharper sounding.
Yeah.
They fucking hurt.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I have a 9mm Remington Ultramag with a muzzle brake.
And it sounds like – I guess it's a 7mm.
Yeah, 7mm.
7mm Remington Ultramag.
And it sounds like a fucking cannon going off.
It sounds so goddamn loud.
Yeah.
And if I don't have earphones on or headsets on – if I don't have something,
it's – you're fucked.
Yeah.
Like, I would never hunt with that without some kind of plugs in.
Yeah.
You better be taking one shot if anything, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah, follow-up shot.
You're going to go deaf.
Yeah.
I was – just the other day I was shooting with my son.
So I've got a .308 bolt gun.
And I had him, like, you know, laying and prone.
And we were shooting it at 200 yards.
And every time I'm sitting there, I got my binos up.
And just the way the brake was made, it's, like, throwing the gases kind of
back.
Mm-hmm.
It's, like, getting slapped.
And I kept flinching like a little bitch.
And I'm, like, all right, he's going to pull the trigger.
Like, just don't flinch.
Like, keep your eyes on the target.
And every fucking time I kept, like, blinking and fucking jarring myself.
I have a friend who was a guide, and he lost his hearing because the guy had a
muzzle break.
And the guy swung to take a shot.
I think it was at a pig.
I forgot what he said.
But it was too close to his head.
It blew his fucking ears out.
No hearing now.
He wears hearing aids.
Yeah.
It's spooky.
You know, it's like your ears, once they go, man.
Yeah.
It's like your chin.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's just no, like, thing you can put on your chin to make it tougher again.
Yeah.
Now that you're 38 and you're thinking of the future, you know, and you put out
this cookbook,
what do you see yourself doing when you transition out of your MMA career?
I'm not totally, like, like, I'm not committed to anything just yet, you know?
It's, like, it's one of those things that I feel like athletes in general.
Fighters included.
We need to look at the opportunity that we have.
Like, when you make it to the UFC or, like, a guy that's, you know, playing in
the NFL,
like, dude, like, you have to look like, look at it like, tomorrow could be
your last day.
So we need to maximize this opportunity as much as you can.
And I feel like that's kind of something that I failed at, you know, when I was
younger.
I do remember asking, you know, former management, like, hey, you know, like, I
just made a bonus.
I want to do something.
I want to diversify.
I want to get into something else.
And it's like, no, just focus on fighting right now.
It's like, well, fighting might not be here, you know, in a few months.
I could walk outside, step into a pothole and blow my knee out and, like, who
the hell knows?
Or be training and, you know, get clipped with a knee in the head or something.
Like, plenty of my peers have, their careers have gone from awesome to off, you
know, like that.
So, yeah, so I've been trying to figure out exactly what it is.
The problem is, is that I've lived my entire adult life as a professional
athlete, so I'm super fucking spoiled.
Now, while I, you know, I would have liked to have made more money over the
years and stuff like that, but that's neither here nor there.
But I have freedom.
I have time.
So, I'm trying to figure out what's going to give me at least some of the
freedom that I have now to be able to make my schedule so I can spend time with
my family, so I can do the things that I want to do.
And, you know, the cookbook is, like, that first step, I think.
Like, I always knew that food was going to be a part of my life.
And because it's, it's always been a family thing.
Like, as a kid, we were always, no matter, we had football practice, wrestling
practice, baseball, like, we always ate dinner together.
So, I try to do that with my kids.
And I love sharing.
I love sharing fucking food or, you know, any of the stupid booze that I make,
you know, the homebrew.
So, it's, like, how can I, how can I do that?
And I think the cookbook is the, well, I know the cookbook is that first step.
I sure as shit don't want to work in a kitchen, but I think, like, with, with
this, the, you know, the fighter's cookbook, hopefully get people into, like,
kind of realizing to, that, that they need to take a little control of their
food.
Because I think it's been such a, a big thing in my ability to still be
fighting today.
And my, my getting over Lyme disease has been my diet.
You know, like, we, we sacrifice a lot for the convenience that we get, you
know, living in America.
And, and it's easy, as easy as pulling out your phone and going on Uber Eats
and stuff like this.
Or, you know, pulling into the drive-through.
But it's, like, we don't, we don't pay for that convenience necessarily with
our dollars.
Like, we pay for it with our health.
Because while, while there's a lot that goes into, like, the food science and
all that bullshit, and I'm not a fucking expert with it.
I know what real food is.
And I know that I feel better when I'm eating real food.
When I'm eating, you know, a deer or a bear or pheasant that I shot.
And some vegetables that I grew in my garden.
I just feel better.
I perform better.
But, yeah.
So, hopefully, like, hopefully the, the, the book can kind of create a little
bit of an environment.
And we can go from there.
And, and, I don't know.
You know, it's, I sure as shit would like to shoot my bow and my, you know, my
rifle for a living.
But, who the hell knows.
I've also, you know, I've spoken to Dudley and I've, I've, I've dipped my toe
into, you know, I made a pilot for an outdoor show.
And I, man, I, I'm not a huge fan of, like, at least where it was with, on TV.
You know, I know that there are athletes that go that direction.
What didn't you like about doing?
Well, it felt a lot like MMA.
Like, back in the, back in the, the sponsorship days.
You know, like, I, I have a couple companies that I'm, I consider myself, like,
friends with.
Right?
Like, I, fucking, I, Josh Smith at, at Montana Knives.
I love the dude.
He's fucking awesome.
You know, like, the, but the Traeger people are, are great.
Vortex, great.
But, like, I hate the, the whole, like, influencer sponsorship thing.
Like, you know, like, if it's, if it's natural, like, because if, it's like,
hey, if we have a relationship and we're friends, like, it's great.
Right.
But, like, man, I have a tough time with, like, you know, faking it.
Mm-hmm.
Because that's the last thing that I want to do.
You know, like, I, my, my attitude with, I was never very good at social media,
and I'm still not very good at social media.
But, when I, when I was diagnosed with Lyme, I feel like I made a change in the
way that I approach it.
And it's like, hey, fuck it, like, I'm just going to be me, and I'm going to
show people who I am.
Because I feel like every fight that I've had since then has been a gift.
So, it's like, you know, I'm just, I'm going to be honest.
And I'm not going to portray, you know, some, some brand like myself, like,
make myself a brand and not really show who I am.
Now, granted, I probably swear too much on social media, but.
No, you don't.
If that's who you are.
It is who I am.
It is who I am.
Then you don't.
But, like, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's tough.
Like, the whole, like, transitioning thing, going.
To an influencer.
Yeah.
Like, I.
Yeah, it's a tricky world.
You have a tough time with it.
It's, there's, there's a, it's a world where a certain amount of bullshit is
necessary.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I, I, I don't.
Yeah.
I don't do that.
Yeah.
I don't do it.
I, like.
Yeah, it's just, like, that's, it's who I am.
And I'm not, I'm not going to, I'm not going to change who I am.
Like, I'm not, like, in the world of jiu-jitsu and in martial arts, like,
loyalty is this thing that gets thrown out all the time.
Right?
I'm not loyal to people, I'm loyal to, to principles.
Right?
Like, if, if you and I are similar and we believe in the same things and you're
a good fucking person and you treat people well, hey, man, we're going to get
along.
Like, but as soon as, like, shady shit starts happening, like, I've, I've
walked away from probably a lot of money, but plenty of people, um, because
they treated people like shit or they, you know.
But you know what you get out of that?
You get something that's so valuable.
Yeah.
I get sleep at night.
Peace of mind.
Peace of mind is everything.
Yeah.
If you're involved in, like, imagine if you're involved with, like, you're, you're
doing, you're running, like, uh, you have some sort of a business and, uh, you
and the, your partner in your office, you, you, you know that he's, like, doing
something illegal.
And, you know, like, imagine being, like, Bernie Madoff's kid.
Yeah.
Like, they all worked with them.
Right?
One of them wound up committing suicide.
Yeah.
I mean, that's not, it's not an accident.
Yeah.
That, that, it's not coincidence that that happened together.
Like, imagine being involved with someone who you know is not the way to do it.
Yeah.
Because you get to live with that.
You go to bed at night and you think, to be able to go to bed with peace of
mind, knowing I'm doing my best, I'm doing the right thing, I'm being ethical,
I'm being, you know, a good person.
Yeah.
That's everything, man.
Yeah.
People can't do that.
They live in hell.
Even if they're making a shitload of money.
Even if, you know, their, their business is running well, if they're fucking
people over, I don't know how they do it.
Yeah.
Neither do I.
They're, they're the, the guys that I have around me that have been around me
for a long time.
They're there for a reason, you know, so.
You don't want to run a gym.
You done now with that?
I am done with that.
Yeah.
Like, I, well, one of the reasons why I don't want to run the gym is because I
didn't, I don't want to have an anchor in New Jersey, you know, like, I got, I
got a lot of people that I love in, in New Jersey, you know, that are related
by blood and that aren't.
Like, I, the last, the last two years, it's just like, you know, there are
better places.
Yeah, you're talking to a guy who bailed out of California for the same reason.
If you talked to me three years ago and said, you think you'll ever leave
California, I'd be like, man, it's going to take a lot to get me away.
All my friends, the comedy store, jujitsu, all the things I like to do in Cal,
in California.
But then they're like, oh, well, we'll show you.
Yeah.
The, the government was like, check this out.
And that's the, like, New Jersey's, it's like mini California, you know, and.
It's close.
Now, now granted, I, I, I'm a firm believer on like, you know, turn off the
fucking TV, don't listen to the bullshit and, you know, go talk to your
neighbor, right?
Like, like, where I live, you know, I'm 20 minutes from Pennsylvania-ish, you
know, maybe 30 from New York.
So I'm like on the, in the northwest corner of the state.
And I live in this tiny little town that, it's fucking awesome.
We bought a place right before, like, the, the pandemic hit and stuff like that,
end of 2019.
And it was like, you know, okay, if we're going to spend a little more time
here until I'm done fighting, like, this is where we want to do it.
Surrounded by state land.
It's great.
But, yeah, you, you deal with all the bullshit, the, the cost of living, the,
the, the bullshit politics.
Like, I had to sign my kids up for private school because public school has to
follow by some bullshit stuff that our, our, our, our governor is pushing down
the pipeline.
That mimics some of the bullshit that California has to deal with.
Like, there's a lot of things that, that I don't want my kids to have to, have
to learn at school.
Like what kind of stuff?
Well, all the, a lot of the, the, let's say, you're making me fucking go off
the, go off the deep end here.
We're not even drunk.
All right.
Well, not even drunk.
I'm actually a little, but, but, um, Florida's new thing.
Uh, you know, the whole fucking anti-grooming law.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, so, I mean, why is a, uh, why, why should a, you know, fifth graders be
taught about stuff that, like, like pleasure?
Right?
Well, it's not even fifth graders.
Yeah, I know.
Like, Florida's, Florida's is even, even, even less.
I don't, what the hell does a math, why is a math teacher in high school
talking about sexuality?
Right.
Right?
Um, but, you know, like, so in New Jersey, they're kind of changing over the
sex ed thing to, to start teaching kids about, like, essentially kink.
You know, like, what are you doing for fun with someone else?
And it's a slippery slope.
Yeah.
It's a, it's a, you know, an, an adult telling a child what they can do that
feels good.
Mm.
I've had the conversation with my kids about reproduction, because we have farm
animals.
We have, we have, you know, like, we don't, we don't have a male pig.
We don't have a male goat.
We just have females, two pigs, four goats.
But we've had the roosters.
Those are, they're, they're gone now.
And, uh, we had a male duck until recently, because my one new dog is an
asshole.
Um, and they saw that corkscrew looking thing dragging off the ground after he
was on top of one of the other ducks.
So we're, we had, we've had conversations.
Explain that corkscrew thing, because people.
That's his dick.
Many people don't know that.
Yeah, yeah.
A duck's penis.
A duck's very unusual.
Oh my God, it's fucking weird as shit.
It's, it looks like a, uh, like a spiral noodle.
And it's like 12 inches long.
Yeah, yeah, it's huge.
Well, I mean, it's.
For a duck.
Yeah, it's long.
It's not very thick, right?
I heard that girth is what matters.
It doesn't have a lot of girth.
I wouldn't know either.
But anyway, uh, um, so we've had those conversations, but it's like, uh, uh,
that's about like, you
know, making baby ducks, making, making baby humans.
The thing about these conversations in school is, um, who's having them?
Yeah.
Are we talking about a, uh, a sex ed teacher that has a degree in this and
understands, has
been educated in how to communicate sexuality and talk to kids?
Or are we talking about a history teacher?
Yeah.
That for some reason wants to talk about queer theory and wants to talk about,
uh, sex and,
and gay sex and all these different things.
Like, uh, I'm not opposed to people being whatever they want to be, but I, I
think there's many
people that are teaching children all kinds of things that probably that's not
their field
to study and they might not be qualified to teach it.
And I don't necessarily want them to be the person that introduces my kid to
the idea of,
you know, whatever, fill in the blank about whatever sexual proclivity.
It doesn't seem like that's your, your business.
It's not.
I don't, I don't think it is either.
Especially not for a fucking first grader.
Dude.
It's yeah.
So it's a, it's a weird world.
That's not what they're interested in.
Kids.
That's not what they care about.
So I guess like with, with New Jersey, it's, it's teaching them about, uh, you
know, anal
stimulation and stuff like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, which again, two consenting adults.
How old are these kids were they teaching them this?
Uh, that's like fifth grade.
So what?
Really?
Yeah.
Like 10, 11.
Fifth grade.
They're teaching them about anal stimulation.
Maybe just math.
Yeah.
Maybe just history.
Yeah.
Like that's, it's just not their job to, it's like, I think it's their job to
educate
children in all sorts of ways, right?
You can teach them how to teach.
You could teach them, you know, history and sociology and all sorts of things.
But when you start doing stuff like that, it's like, why are you doing that?
What is this?
We, we never had that before.
Like this seems like something that, I mean, some parents are never going to
have those
conversations with the kid, right?
True.
Which is maybe not good either.
But who are the teachers?
Like, are they, what teachers qualify to do that?
I would want to know who is this person talking to my child about anal
stimulation?
Who are they?
Or, or even.
What are the, what is the conversation like?
Like.
Is it a skilled conversation?
Yeah.
Do they know what they're doing?
Or is this like some weird clunky shit where you're saying, try it, Billy, put
your finger
in your asshole.
It feels good.
Like.
Or even.
I don't think anybody's doing that.
Just like, like orgasms, right?
Right.
Like.
Like, okay, it's a, it's a part of reproduction, but do we need to go into like,
Hey man,
some of them are fucking great.
Like, like, Oh, if she, if she tickles your balls, why?
Like.
Right.
They're teaching eight year olds that.
Like we don't, we don't need to, we don't need to teach them what they can do
for fun or
what they can do for pleasure if it's the, it's the, like the creation of life.
Cause I mean, on the flip side, a lot of, a lot of kids don't understand about
death.
Right.
Like having, having some animals and being a hunter, my kids kind of understand
that like,
Hey, once the lights are out, the fucking lights are out.
Right.
But then it's also like, we, you need to, you need to have the other side of
that where,
where life begins.
Right.
Uh, but yeah, like the stuff that you do for fun, I don't, I don't, I don't
need, I don't
need any teacher.
I don't need any adult teaching my kids that.
It's a complicated issue.
And I think rightly so.
A lot of parents are very sensitive about people teaching their children about
these things.
And there's a lot of teachers that feel like they're saving the child because
they are allowing
the child to explore subjects that the parents don't explore at home.
Yeah.
And they feel like maybe there's a lot of queer kids or a lot of gay kids or
trans kids that
don't have these conversations with their parents.
And then the teacher could step in and help.
And that would be like a way where they could have, uh, like a safe discussion
about these
issues.
Which is, but then on the flip side, they're trying to hide it.
Right.
They're trying to say like, Hey, you're not allowed to know what we're talking
about.
Right.
That's like, Whoa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's not, not, yeah.
But they're worried about parents complaining about stuff.
Well, you know what?
Parents have a right to know what their children are being taught because,
because listen, we
all know that some teachers suck.
We've experienced it.
I've had teachers that sucked.
You've had teachers that suck.
If you have a teacher that sucks and they're teaching you history, the
consequences are not grave.
If you have a teacher that sucks and they're teaching you, you know, various
things about
alternative sexuality, alternative sexual practices, like, are you encouraging
the children to try
this?
Are you encouraging the kids to do things?
Are you encouraging the kids to have sex with each other?
Like, what are you doing?
And what, how is this conversation being handled?
I don't know.
And that's where parents are very right to be concerned because a lot of these
people,
they don't, they're not qualified to have these conversations.
And maybe the way they have these conversations are against your values as a
parent.
And you, you would not have that same kind of conversation in that way with
your kid.
And they think it's their right to do this.
And that it's not your right to know what they're teaching your kid.
Well, it depends on what the subject is.
If you're saying, do I have the right to tell you how to teach math if I'm not
good at math?
No, I don't.
But when you're talking about things that aren't even your field of study.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
Why?
Why is it?
It seems super complex.
If you want to talk to children, very young children about sexuality, that
seems like that
should be something that you go to school specifically for.
And then this curriculum is carefully analyzed with psychologists and sociologists
and people
who are experts in sexual reproduction.
And they should have like informed conversations of how to have these
conversations.
If you're going to have a conversation like that, but you're just like a
fucking history teacher.
Yeah.
And you want to talk about your husband and you're a gay man.
You have, this is how me and my husband have sex with each other.
And you're, you're talking to a seven-year-old.
Like, hey, like maybe this isn't the place for that.
It's not the place for you to talk about how you fuck your wife either.
It's not like my, I like it when my wife sticks my penis in her mouth.
Like, hey, hey, hey.
Exactly.
Hey, this is a fucking little kid who just wants to play games and have a hangout
with
their friends.
And you're just supposed to be educating them.
But it's, it's one of those things where it's the idea that you don't have any
say in
how your children are educated is bonkers.
It is.
That's bonkers.
It is.
And I know, I've seen some of those fucking parent meetings where the Karens
get up
and start screaming at the board members and fucking ruin it for everybody.
I get it.
I get it.
If you're a teacher and some crazy person is like, who believes in QAnon and
thinks
there's fucking kids tied up in the basement somewhere of a pizza place, you
know, I get
it.
You don't want to talk to that person.
That person maybe shouldn't have, you know, the, the, the influence on how the
school curriculum
is run.
I get it.
But that's, that's, you can't lump everybody into that thing.
And when there's something that makes people very uncomfortable, like all of a
sudden a public
school stepping in and dictating how sexual orientation and, and sex
preferences and all that should
be handled and discussed amongst seven year olds.
I'm, I think I'm right to go, wait, wait, wait, wait, who are you?
Who are you?
It's not like whether or not this subject should ever be breached with kids.
It's like, who's doing this and how good are you at this?
And I'm not supposed to know what you're teaching my kids.
And then they come home and mommy, what's a rim job?
What the fuck?
What did you just say?
What the fuck is going on?
Well, you know, it's like, well, it's like, Hey, Hey, it's different than tossing
salad.
Is it though?
It's like, I get it.
I mean, I'm, I'm, we're in a weird place as a culture.
We really are.
You know, and I'm, you know, I'm not some right wing nut, but I see the writing
on the
wall.
I don't like it.
I don't, I don't like this idea that parents don't have any say in what, how
their children
are being educated because like, who's to say this person who's teaching school
is even
good at it.
Yeah.
It's there's oftentimes they're not good at it.
And I mean, not that, listen, not all parents are fucking good parents, but not
all teachers
are good teachers.
No.
So, I mean, you're still seeing to this day teachers doing inappropriate things
with their
students.
Yeah.
So, so why, why are we like, why are we trying to skirt the line of like what
they can get
away with?
I just saw an article about some guy who got arrested because he was forcing
boys to watch
him masturbate.
A teacher.
Like, what the fuck, man?
It's like 13 boys.
He forced like 13 boys to watch him masturbate.
Jesus Christ.
Yeah.
What, what the fuck, you know, and then, and then there's the other one that we
don't
care about is when hot teachers fuck kids.
Yeah.
That's the weird one.
When the hot woman has sex with like a 15 year old boy, we're like, ah, he'll
be fine.
But he won't, but he won't, because we all were like, that would be cool.
Yeah.
You know, but probably super confusing.
It would be.
Well, a lot of, I mean, that's, you know, there's a lot of those stories out
there.
You can go find them in the news.
Yeah.
Doesn't usually wind up so well for the guy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, um, but so that's, so New Jersey, you're thinking about where would you
go?
I don't know.
Um, um, that's a smooth transition right there.
Um, I want to go West.
I want to go, uh, to the mountains, Montana, Utah, Idaho, maybe Colorado.
Um, my wife is looking further, like just straight South on the Eastern side.
So, um, Western, North Carolina, South Carolina.
How old are your kids now?
Uh, 11, 10, eight and six.
You could do it now.
Well, you know, listen.
Now's a good time.
You know why?
Because like when they get into high school, it's hard to move.
Yeah.
That's, that was our thought when we moved here.
It's like, get them, get them in.
And they get made friends like that.
Yeah.
You know, it's, I, I moved to a new high school.
I moved to a new town when I was, uh, 14 and it was rough.
It was not that rough, but I mean, it's hard.
You got to make friends.
It's like everybody grew up with everybody and I come in, I'm the new kid.
It's uncomfortable.
Yeah.
You know, so yeah, we haven't figured it out yet.
I don't, I've got, I've got a family and, and, you know, one of my like coaches,
mentors
is down in North Carolina.
So like in that area, it'd be nice.
I fucking love Tennessee.
Um, every time.
North Carolina is nice too.
Yeah, it is.
Um, I guess some wicked storms, bro.
They do.
Yeah.
And it's like, like it snows like two flakes and the whole state shuts down.
That's how it is here.
Yeah.
Last year, everything shut down.
Oh yeah.
Well, that was a, that was a pretty rough one.
Eh.
I grew up in Boston.
Yeah, I know.
It's not rough.
It was fun.
I was, I have a, a 95 land cruiser.
It's like all built out.
And so I was like, yeehaw.
But it wasn't, it was cold.
It was cold for a while.
And yet like people don't, it sucked for the people.
People don't know how to like winterize their house and stuff like that.
So they lost.
People lost their power.
That was a real problem.
Yeah.
That was bad about it.
But the roads were what people were complaining about.
I'm like, come on.
Yeah.
It ain't shit.
Yeah.
You just get used to it.
Yeah.
Well, it's also having the wrong vehicle is the big thing.
If you don't have a four wheel drive.
It's true.
We had a, we had some snow a couple of weeks ago and like, yeah, they're, they're
still,
there are people out.
I think so on a 13 mile drive from my house to the gym, there were five cars
that were like
stranded and it's like, come on.
Like one, you knew this was coming and it's like two, you should be used to
this by now.
If I was living in a place like Jersey where it snows, there's not a fucking
chance in hell
I didn't have a four wheel drive.
There's no, that would be my car.
I'm not going to like, when I lived in New York.
They're trying to make it so you can only have a 40 miles per gallon.
Like you have to have something that gets like 40 miles per gallon.
Is that New Jersey?
Yeah.
In a few years or whatever the hell it is.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
My truck gets like 10.
Yeah.
11 if I'm lucky.
Yeah.
Why can't you pump your own gas there?
I know.
It's weird, right?
It's weird.
New Jersey's got a weird law.
I was like, what the fuck's going on?
Well, yeah.
What?
You can't.
You don't trust anyone?
You can.
I do it all the time.
Okay.
Well, why aren't you supposed to?
But I think it was, it was, it was a liability thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're not supposed to.
But everywhere else was like, what's the, what was, what was the issue?
Well, New Jersey is right next to New York.
You go to New York, you pump your own gas.
Pennsylvania?
I know.
I just, it's one of the, I don't understand it.
I think it's like, it's a couple other states that have a similar role.
No, I think like Oregon is the only other state I believe that.
Just Oregon?
Yeah, I believe so.
That has certain stations that are like full serve.
Dude, I fucking never see full serve gas stations.
When was the last time you saw a gas station where someone's pumping other
people's gas?
Ten years ago in New Jersey, I was like, what the fuck's going on here?
It's, it's weird.
Cause it's like, you know, uh, people are like, Hey, get rid of it so that we
can save money
on gas.
And it's like, you know, but PA has pretty fucking high, like their gas tax is
high.
So the gas is kind of similar.
They would save money.
Like we would save money.
Um, you know, if we got rid of it, but there are a lot of people that live in
New Jersey.
They're like, I won't pump my own gas.
Really?
Yeah.
That's so weird.
Yeah.
They just want to stay in their car.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Stay warm.
Yeah.
That's so bizarre.
I used to work at a gas station.
We used to pump people's gas, but that was in the eighties.
I wonder if it was even legal to pump your own gas back then.
I wonder if they had self-serve gas back then, because back then, I don't even
know if people
use credit cards.
I remember growing up, there were pumps that were, but there would be stations
that would
like, that's the one closest are full.
The one's everything else, the self.
I've seen that in places.
There's like one, one in Ohio that I knew about.
Yeah.
I've seen that in places, but it's been a long time.
But yeah, we used to pump people's gas.
And they would check your fluids and everything.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Pop the hood.
Clean your windshield.
Add washer fluid.
All that jazz.
Yeah.
Clean your windshield.
It's not like a bum on the side of the highway.
Spitting on it with a piece of newspaper.
Oh my God.
There's a guy the other day that he was so dirty and he had this bucket of
water that
I'm sure was as dirty as him.
And he's trying to wash people's windshields.
Like this is, it's already clean.
What are you doing, man?
Yeah.
Poor guy.
There's other ways to make money.
It's true.
Also, you see, like I saw a guy the other day that was just standing there with
a bucket.
He had a thick gold chain on, like a fat, like a wrapper gold chain and a nice
pair of
sneakers.
And it looked good.
It looks like he's all right.
It's like he's doing good.
And he's standing there at the stop side on the corner where the stoplight is
with a
bucket just asking for money.
And then the light turns red and he starts walking up to cars with the bucket
and some
people were giving him money.
I'm like, what's going on here?
You do not look like a bum, sir.
You look like a man who's found another way to make money.
Yeah.
Just ask for it.
Yeah.
Which is tricky.
It is tricky.
So you'll go somewhere else.
And then so you're just going to figure out what you want to do when you're
done.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, I want freedom.
Yeah.
Like I've kind of come to that point where it's like, no matter what I do, I
kind of need
to be able to do some of the stuff that I want.
And, you know, I finally got the opportunity to go elk hunting a couple of
years ago.
I haven't gotten one yet.
I've gone twice.
I've been fucking from me to Jamie away from one.
Oh, wow.
Didn't get a shot at it because it was still in the oak brush.
But I really want my kids to hear that.
Like I want to be able to be somewhere where like, okay, since, you know, elk
season's
in September, you're still going to have to be in school, but like we can go on
the weekends.
Like that's my.
Yeah.
It's.
Well, Montana's a good spot for that.
Yeah.
So is Colorado.
Yeah.
For now.
For now.
They're trying to bring in wolves to Colorado.
Oh, what a shit show.
The people's fascination with bringing in large predators is really interesting
to me.
I don't understand why.
So they bring in, they bring in the wolves, right?
They're willing to do that.
Like, okay, why don't you, you know, breed up a herd of three million bison and
let them
loose in the center of this country?
Well, you know, there's talk about that.
Do you know about that?
The, you know about the American prairie, what is it called?
The, um, oh my God, what is the name that they use?
There's a, there's a group of people, there's a fund, they're buying up land
and they're reintroducing
all sorts of, uh, bison, um, pronghorn, all sorts of, and they're, they're
trying to make
like an enormous national park type deal, but they're also, uh, opening it up.
American prairie foundation.
That's it.
Yeah, that's it.
And so they're buying up enormous chunks of land, but they're also going to
have it open
for hunting.
Oh yeah.
So this is not going to be like Yellowstone where, you know, you have all these
animals
and they live in this very bizarre protected sort of park area.
They're trying to sort of bring back this enormous swath of land and reintroduce
all the kind
of animals that lived here, you know, probably at the turn of the 19th century.
It, that's cool.
Yeah.
I like it.
I just like, you introduced the wolves and the wolves don't stay where you want
them to
stay.
They fucking go everywhere.
They eat cattle.
They fucking, you know, eat sheep.
They, they, they get into all sorts of trouble.
It's a complex issue.
It is.
And the problem is, um, when people agree to bring the wolves in, they
generally agree that
there's a number that those wolves will get to.
This is what that, what happened with Yellowstone.
They agree.
There's a number that those wolves can get to.
That's a sustainable population.
Then they'll open them up to management.
And what management means is hunting.
Like people will kill some of those wolves to keep the populations in check.
And as soon as they hit that number, then they move the goalposts and they,
they fight
against that and they, they, the environmentalists, a lot of these animal
rights groups, they have,
they call themselves environmentalists.
They're really animal rights activists.
They have lawsuits against these proposed, um, hunting, uh, seasons.
And they do that all the time.
That's, that's a, a giant issue.
I think if, if, if they recognize that needs to be taken into consideration
when they, whenever
they make this sort of agreement to reintroduce wolves, they have to look at
what happened when
they reintroduced the wolves in Yellowstone, how money, how many lawsuits were
like, how
many people fought against this idea of the hunting of the wolves?
Cause I know they, they've had problems with them in other States, Montana,
they, they have
wolf seasons in some places and they never reach their quotas.
That's the thing they need to understand.
Like if you, like if someone says we're going to release a hundred wolf tags,
you're not
going to kill a hundred wolves.
There's just not there.
They're so smart.
They're so clever.
They're so fucking, they're so adaptive.
If they get lucky, you, you kill a percentage of that.
I don't know.
You'd have to ask someone like Steve Rinella.
He would be able to tell you what the percentage of success is, but it's
definitely not a hundred
percent.
Yeah.
You know, it's similar to, uh, like black bears in New Jersey.
So that, that's crazy.
Yeah.
New Jersey thing is crazy.
It's fucking wild.
So in, yeah, in like turn of 2000, we had, we had the largest population of
black bears
per capita.
Yeah.
In the United States.
Yeah.
In the fucking world.
Yeah.
Like that section of Northwestern, New Jersey, cause it was only three counties
had black
bears, like legitimately had black bears in New Jersey.
And then it was New York, Pennsylvania, right in the tri-state corner.
And like, I started hunting them, uh, right when it opened, I never saw a
fucking bear
during, during season.
Cause it was always, uh, during six day firearm, which is the second week of
December.
Um, and I, I fucking never saw them.
I'd see them before and I'd see them afterwards.
As soon as they hear the first bang, bang, they're like, let's get the fuck out
of here.
They're, they're so like tuned in.
Yeah.
Their nose is so fucking good.
Um, and like, yeah, like you, you, you managed them.
You got a, the first year that they opened it up, we got a decent amount.
Um, and then like they started to spread out, uh, and now they're in every
county in the
state.
Um, and like me, I've, I've got trail cam pictures of a sow with five cubs and
what people
don't get, it's the only reason that sow has five cubs is cause she, her body
feels like
she can support them because she's got plenty of fucking brows to eat.
You know, these, the bears don't want to eat garbage and get into, you know,
human shit.
Um, but they will.
And like a lot of the issues you have too, is that people are like, oh, well,
you know,
we can just scare them off, shoot them with rubber buckshot, you know?
And that's what like the, the cops try to do when they, they come to a bear
call.
Uh, and it's like this bear doesn't have millions of acres to go like, like a
bear in Montana.
Right.
Like he, he can go like 1500 yards if that, you know, and then he's in the next
person's,
you know, the next town over or the next person's yard or whatever.
Like, and the reason that they're coming into people's, like get busted into
garages and
stuff like that is because they're not the big bear.
Like the big bear never does that shit.
The big bear eats whatever the fuck the big bear wants to eat, which is the
blueberries and
the, and the raspberries and all sorts of cubs.
Yeah.
And cubs, um, and eats whatever the hell they want.
And it's the little ones that come into, you know, uh, where humans are and
create all the
trouble.
And the thing is, is they know that that bear, the big bear will kill them.
They don't necessarily know that we're going to kill them.
So they're more willing to deal with us than they are with the big fucker that
scared them
away.
So like, I mean, yeah, they, they got rid of our bear hunt this last year.
Um, you know, we're trying to get it back.
Uh, it's a, it's a shit show.
Cause it's like, you've got the most populated state in the country.
And a giant fucking bear herd, uh, that, I mean, you shouldn't, you shouldn't
see one.
You really shouldn't see them like in your yard.
In suburbs.
Yeah.
And you see them all the time.
You see them all the time.
Did you see that one in far Rockaway where there's two giant bears were in a
brawl and
is it, there's a YouTube video.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a fucking residential suburban neighborhood and you got like two 500 pound
bears going
to war fighting over trash cans.
Yeah.
That's what they fight over.
They fight over territory.
Like who can, who can get the trash cans in this neighborhood?
Like it's a, it's so dumb.
California almost killed it.
They almost killed it last year, but all the protests and all the people like
rallying
against it, they backed off, but they were trying to get rid of the bear hunt
in California.
And it's a similar situation.
There's an overpopulation of bears, you know, and overpopulation of black bears
is, uh, I
understand that people have this thing about bears where Rinella calls them, uh,
charismatic
mega fauna, you know, and it really is what that is.
Like people grew up with teddy bears, right?
Yeah.
I grew up with Yogi the bear on TV, but bears are predators and they're also
edible and
they taste good.
They do taste good.
Yeah.
That's, that's another thing.
People go, man, you don't eat bears.
Why would you kill a bear?
No, I fucking eat bear.
Yeah.
I've eaten them.
They're good.
Buy my cookbook.
There's a couple of recipes.
Yeah.
It tastes like that.
I described it.
It tastes like a deer fucked a pig.
I, I, I think they, I feel like they taste a bit more like bison.
That's what I get.
A little beefy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like beefy, a little more irony than beef.
Um, but like I've prepared them, uh, I made some sous vide for, uh,
Thanksgiving the
one year, so like I, I cooked them in the, in the water bath for a while at
like 135 or
whatever.
Um, and then took them out because trichinosis, um, you know, it dies at
whatever the hell it
is.
I think we are 137, uh, and that's where I got it to, uh, and, and left it
there.
Um, and then just hit them on the, hit them on the grill real quick.
And like, you couldn't tell that they weren't beef.
It was a little tougher.
If you're going to do 35, I think it's over a prolonged period of time, right?
I didn't, I didn't get trichinosis.
Yeah.
It's not like if you throw it on the Traeger and get it to 135, you're going to,
you might
get sick.
But also freezing kills the trichinosis.
Not always.
If you, well, you got to put it in the deep freezer.
Yeah.
But even then it's some, some trichinosis, the trichinosis from cold areas does
not die
that way.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
I think there's different strains of trichinosis.
Let's look this up, make sure I'm right, but I'm 99% sure I am because this is
something
Rinella told me.
Rinella said that there's strains of trichinosis that are Southern strains and
those strains
that if you do put them in the deep freeze, they'll die.
But then there's strains from like, you know, Montana, Alaska.
Well, mine was a New Jersey bear.
So let's see here.
Freezing pork.
Yeah, but I guess it's similar.
Okay.
However, trichinella parasites in wild animal meat are not killed by freezing,
even over
a long period.
Freezing pork that is less than six inches thick for three weeks will kill
parasites.
But freezing trichinella parasites in wild animal, that's interesting.
I wonder why that is that because if pork has, one of the things they're saying
recently is
that you can kind of eat pork medium rare.
Yeah.
Where you used to, domestic pork.
Yeah, domestic pork because they're raised on concrete.
Right.
So here it is.
Does freezing kill trichinosis in bear meat?
Smoking, freezing, or curing gay meat does not kill all trichinella species.
Low temperature smoking will not kill trichinella either.
Yeah.
I think from what I've read, you have to do it over a long period of time.
I think, and I don't think it's 135, buddy.
I think it was 137 or 20, 20, 20, something like that.
I think it's like 150.
What the hell website was that?
It was a, it was a government website that I went to.
Yeah, there it is right here.
It says 160 is more than ample temperature to kill all forms of trichinosis.
And that may be living, but right.
It says, while freezing for at least 20 plus days is known to kill most forms
of trichinosis,
I cannot recommend this method as there are strains that are resistant to
freezing.
Yeah, that's what I've heard.
And that's what, yeah.
Well, I hope that nothing eats me because they might get trichinosis.
Well, if you had that, you would know.
Rinella had that.
He said his whole crew got it.
They ate bear.
They were hunting with Rourke, Denver, and they were in Alaska.
And he shot a bear and they cooked it over the fire.
And I was watching the episode knowing that they had all gotten trichinosis.
It was raw as shit.
I was like, I wouldn't have eaten that.
But it was kind of rainy and they had a shitty fire and they just made do.
Like, yeah.
I think he's like secretly wanted to have trichinosis.
It was kind of secret we wanted to get it to.
Some people do, right?
My eyeballs are floating.
I need to run to the potty.
Oh, well, go ahead.
We'll just wrap this up.
Okay.
It's already 4 o'clock.
So tell everybody, when is this book coming out?
So the book is shipping on April 16th.
April 16th and it's called The Fighter's Cookbook?
The Fighter's Cookbook because, you know, I've used food to kind of fight old
age and Lyme disease.
To be able to continue to fight.
And just to maintain health.
Yeah, man.
Like the direction that we're going with some of the shit.
Like I see some of this like lab grown meat or this 3D printed shit.
Or like the, I mean, even like the, some of the farming methods that we're, you
know, that we're using that we have been using for a long time.
It's so fucked.
Yeah.
It's so fucked.
And people have gotten into this rhythm of just eating for convenience and
eating real food.
It changed my life.
Um, and, uh, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tool.
It's a medicine.
It's, it's, we need to take it seriously.
Well, we'll let it, excuse me.
We'll let everybody know when the book comes out.
And, uh, to get you on social media, what's your, uh, Instagram?
Jim Miller underscore 155.
On everything?
On Twitter?
Yeah.
I'm not on Twitter.
Yeah.
Good for you.
I, yeah, you know what?
Elon Musk just bought a giant chunk of it.
I know, I saw.
Maybe he's going to fix it.
Hopefully, because, uh, when I heard that they, like, fought to, like, keep
child porn on.
What?
There was a case where this kid got, like, catfished.
And, uh, he was, like, 15.
Somebody took his pictures that he, that he took and sent to this person.
And they had him on Twitter, and Twitter was, like, fighting him.
Because they wanted to keep them up.
And they're like, there's no.
You sure that's true?
That's 100% true?
I believe so.
That sounds insane.
It does sound insane.
That doesn't seem, we need to find out if that's true.
Otherwise, we're going to have to edit that out.
Okay.
That seems that maybe, there's one of those things where you get a, a weird.
Twitter refused to remove child porn because it didn't violate policies.
Yeah.
Copyright.
That's what the lawsuit says.
And let's, let's see what the actual case said.
You're going to have to hold your urine in for three more minutes here.
Um, it says the teen, who's now 17, lives in Florida, identified only as John
Doe,
was between 13 and 14 years old when sex traffickers posing as a 16-year-old
female
classmate started chatting with him.
Okay.
Um, Doe, acting under duress, initially complied and sent videos of himself
performing sex acts
and was also told to include another child in his videos, which he did, the
suit claims.
Eventually, Doe blocked the traffickers and stopped harassing them, that, uh,
they stopped harassing
him.
But at some point in 2019, the video surfaced on Twitter under two accounts
that were known
to share child sexual abuse material.
Over the next month, the videos reported to Twitter at least three times.
First on December 25th, 2019.
But the tech giant failed to do anything about it until a federal law
enforcement officer
got involved, the suit states.
Doe became aware of the tweets in January 2020 because they'd been viewed by,
widely by his
classmates.
Holy shit.
Yeah.
Which subjected him to teasing harassment, vicious bullying, and led him to
become suicidal.
Court records show.
While Doe's parents contacted the school and made police reports, he followed a
complaint
with Twitter saying there were two tweets depicting child pornography of
himself and they needed
to be removed because they were illegal, harmful, and were in violation of the
site's policies.
A support agent followed up and asked for a copy of Doe's ID so they could
prove it was
him.
And after the teen complied, there was no response for a week, the family
claims.
Around the same time, Doe's mother filed two complaints to Twitter reporting
the same material
and for a week, she also received no response.
Finally, on January 28th, Twitter replied to Doe and said they wouldn't be
taking down the
material, which had already racked up over 187,000 views and 2,223 retweets.
Disgusting.
Holy shit.
Thanks for reaching out.
We reviewed the content and didn't find a violation of our policies, so no
action will be taking
at this time.
Wow.
Fuck you.
Mm-hmm.
That's what I thought.
So that's what I...
Yeah.
I haven't deleted my thing, but I don't want to go on there.
That's crazy, but that's employees, man.
Yeah.
It's some fucking...
Twitter's a Wild West anyway.
Like, I forget what fight it was.
It was like a 35-pounders.
The guy, like, hits an armbar, and his toe got caught in the cage.
Mm-hmm.
And, like, I remember, like, people, like, attacking him.
Oh, he's grabbing the cage with his, you know, his pinky toe, his, like, last
two toes.
Yeah.
And I'm like, he's not.
Like, it got caught.
Like, when you're pushing, your toes kind of curl.
It's the way it worked.
Like, people were fucking arguing with me.
Like, and I'm like, have you ever fought?
Like, have you ever put your foot against a fence?
You ever even grappled in a cage?
You know, like, his armbar would have been better if his foot wasn't caught.
It would have been tighter.
He ended up finishing the armbar, but they were like, oh, you know, we use it.
I was like, no, he didn't use it.
Like, it was just fucking happenstance, and you fucking dumbasses are...
You're on here because it's so toxic, and you're just fighting with me, a
subject matter expert.
Right.
Well, it might have been a 15-year-old kid.
It might have.
It was like six or so people that I was just like, fuck this.
I'm done.
Trolls.
Yeah.
Stay away from the trolls, Jim Miller.
Listen, brother, I'm a fan.
I appreciate you very much as a fighter and as a person, and I wish you all the
best, and
wish you all the best with your cookbook and your career until that UFC 300.
Let's do it.
Then you're going to wrap it up.
Yeah.
All right, brother.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Bye, everybody.
Bye.
Bye.
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