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Dr. Michio Kaku, PhD, is a professor of theoretical physics, host of the "Science Fantastic" radio program, and author of several books. His latest is "Quantum Supremacy: How the Quantum Computer Revolution Will Change Everything." It is available now.www.mkaku.org
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Timestamps 17:50 - The possibilities if AI combined with quantum computing 1:31:23 - What does mankind look like a few thousand years from now? 2:10:55 - Governing society in a world of AI Episode write-up: https://medium.com/@Matthew_Thomas/jre-may-2023-recap-632941c86a57
I can't listen to Kaku anymore. I'm done trying. He acts like a stereotypical arrogant academic. His tonality sounds like he is talking to a kindergartner, and he is really arrogant. He frequently makes absolute statements about things that he cannot possibly know. Its bad for people to listen to someone like this. If his logic is so broken about "This is the final evolution of computing" (for ex), then how the actual fuck is it a good idea to trust anything he says? This motherfucker needs to go on a heroic dose of psychedelics. His behavior is dangerous and bad for the world.
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Q: Why is a Japanese gnome talking about quantum physics? A: Because that is in essence what quantum physics is.
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Douglas Adams, Restaurant at the End of the Universe
Marshall McLuhan, Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man
Michio Kaku, Quantum Supremacy: How the Quantum Computer Revolution Will Change Everything
Michio Kaku, The God Equation: The Quest for a Theory of Everything
Zecharia Sitchin, The Lost Book of Enki: Memoirs and Prophecies of an Extraterrestrial God
Updated after each new episode
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3 years ago
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
Good to see you.
Glad to be on the show again.
My pleasure.
The last time was fascinating, and you have sent me down a rabbit hole of UFO
stories
and reports and fascinating stuff.
But let's talk about your latest book, which is on quantum computing.
Which is equally interesting, if not more interesting, because it might lead us
to become aliens.
We'll talk about that, too.
Please.
So, first of all, if you could, just tell everybody what it means.
What is quantum computing, and how does it work?
Well, there's a race going on.
A race between China, the United States, between IBM and Google.
A race to dominate the next generation of computers.
Because Silicon Valley could become a rust belt.
Think about that.
The digital computer of today could be like the abacus of years gone by.
We're talking about the computer of today could become obsolete with this race
to perfect the next generation,
which is quantum computers.
Instead of computing on transistors, we're computing on atoms.
Think about that.
This is the ultimate computer.
There's nothing smaller than what you can do with atoms.
And that's what these quantum computers compute with.
And it raises all sorts of problems.
The CIA is worried that quantum computers will break right through the CIA
and any kind of barrier being placed around your secrets.
Industries are going to be created out of nothing.
Medicine is going to be turned upside down.
Energy production, society, entertainment, every aspect of society will be
changed with quantum computers.
And that's why there's this race, a race to perfect the quantum computer.
How far from the finish line do you think they are?
Well, it's three years away.
First of all, we've actually built one.
Different companies are fielding quantum computers.
They're kind of primitive.
But some computers, some quantum computers, are actually millions of times more
powerful than our supercomputer
for a certain definite task.
But it may take another decade or so before we get all the kinks out
and it becomes part of everyday life.
But it's going to change everything in the same way that the transistor changed
everything.
The world economy, medicine, art, science, everything was changed with the
microchip.
Same thing with the quantum computer.
It's very difficult for us.
There's only been a few science fiction authors who have been able to do this
successfully
where they can accurately predict what the future is going to look like.
I mean, even they're off usually.
You know, H.G. Wells had some pretty good ideas.
But are we looking at something that we almost don't have a reference for,
that it's so mind-blowingly different and much more powerful than anything we've
experienced so far,
that it's difficult for us to imagine how much it's going to change the world?
Well, to imagine how it's going to change the world, think of the progression
of the computer.
For thousands of years, the computer was basically an analog device.
We used sticks, beads, levers, gears, pulleys, cranks in order to do simple
calculations.
That was the first era of computation.
And that meant that we could keep track of things, which we couldn't do before.
Then World War II hit, and all of a sudden we had to break the German code.
And that required using electricity and using all sorts of vacuum tubes to
crack the German code.
And then we went into the second era, where we compute on digital and binary.
So zeros and ones, zeros and ones.
Now we're entering the third era, a natural progression from gears, levers,
pulleys,
to vacuum tubes and transistors, and then to atoms.
This is the final step in the evolution of the computer.
When we compute on atoms, these are atomic computers, nothing more powerful
than that.
So when you think about how much it would change life as we know it,
that's when things get difficult to understand, right?
Because if we think about just trying to imagine what it would be like living
in New York City in 1820,
and then imagining what it's like today, 200 years later, they would have never
been able to guess.
What kind of things is this going to change?
Everything.
For example, think of biology and medicine.
To test a drug, what do we do?
We get thousands, hundreds of different kinds of petri dishes, put the drug in,
put the tissue in,
and just cross your fingers and hope and pray that of these thousands of dishes,
one of them will create a super wonder drug.
That's why it costs upwards of a billion dollars to market the next wonder drug,
because it's all done by trial and error.
Now, think of putting that in the memory of a supercomputer, a quantum computer.
It analyzes whether or not germs can be destroyed by this substance at the
speed of light.
Not just one dish, but hundreds, thousands of dishes of these things
can be tested at the same time in the memory, the memory of a computer.
So we're talking about digital medicine, digital chemistry, virtual chemistry.
Think about that.
Chemistry without chemicals, biology without biology.
So that's the beauty of this technology, that we can mimic atoms.
We can mimic molecules and do virtual experiments in the memory of a computer
rather than using test tubes like we used to do, that we still do today.
And we could possibly see things that are just theoretical right now,
like with medicine, like regenerating limbs or regrowing spinal tissue
for a person who's been paralyzed, things along those lines.
In fact, even immortality is on the table.
Realize that scientists who have looked at the aging process
realize that the reason why we never understood aging
is that aging is the buildup of error.
That's what aging is, the buildup of mistakes in the replication of DNA.
But what happens if you could put DNA in a computer?
Then you can see where the aging takes place.
And then we can begin perhaps to slow down the aging process,
maybe even become immortal.
What about reversing it?
What about old women become young, hot ladies again?
I think that would be a problem.
Everything's on the table because we're talking about
changing the fabric of life itself.
You know, the greatest quantum computer is Mother Nature.
Think about it.
How does Mother Nature do photosynthesis?
How does Mother Nature create trees and flowers out of nothing?
It's all chemicals and molecules.
That's what quantum computers can do.
When you think about that, just to describe that complexity that you just
described,
do you ever wonder if there's some sort of an ongoing code in the whole
universe itself?
Like, there's a reason why all these things happen.
There's a reason why the mycelium and the trees have this relationship with the
fungus and the earth and the soil,
the animals have this perfect symbiosis.
Well, that was the subject of my previous book, The God Equation,
where we try to find one theory that allows us to calculate everything,
starting with the Big Bang, then the creation of galaxies and stars, planets,
finally the creation of life, photosynthesis.
And here we are talking about this on a podcast.
So, yeah, we're talking about one equation, which I call the God Equation,
which I write about in my book, The God Equation.
But there's a problem.
The problem is that the theory is so complicated
that no human has been able to solve the consequences of this equation.
That's where quantum computers can come in.
Quantum computers can solve the equation and then test it to see whether or not
it really is a theory of everything
or just the imagination of some physicist.
So that was my previous book, The God Equation.
So that's why I decided to write this book, Quantum Supremacy,
because it may eventually take a quantum computer to calculate with what is
called string theory.
And I'm one of the founders of string theory.
And we think that is Einstein's theory that eluded him for the last 30 years of
his life.
This quantum computing creating the answer to this God molecule or this God Equation,
if this does happen, what would that mean to you,
to a person who's studied this and been a scientist your whole life and the way
you look at the world?
How much would that change if there was some sort of a provable equation as to
why things become ever more complex
and universes exist and people exist?
Well, that's my childhood dream.
As I mentioned, when I was eight years old, everything changed in my life.
A great scientist had just died.
And all the newspapers said that he could not finish his final and greatest
theory.
And they put a picture of his desk on the news.
The desk was open and unfinished.
So I was fascinated by that story.
That story changed my life because I said to myself,
why couldn't he finish that theory?
Why don't I try to finish that theory?
That's amazing.
So I went to the library and I looked up this man.
This man's name was Albert Einstein.
The theory was the theory of everything.
An equation of when it's long that would allow us to, quote,
read the mind of God.
These are Einstein's words.
So I said to myself, that's for me.
That's what I want to do for the rest of my life.
So now we have the theory.
It's called string theory.
There have been TV documentaries on the subject.
But it's not testable.
So I think that a quantum computer may one day be powerful enough
to test it in the memory of a computer.
However, we have to be careful.
Remember that novel, The Restaurant at the End of the Galaxy?
What happened in that novel was the aliens of the future
created a supercomputer to calculate the theory of everything,
the ultimate theory.
So the computer chugged and chugged and spit out the answer.
And the answer was, the meaning of the universe was 42.
So much for that.
So I would hope that our quantum computer,
computing on string theory,
I hope would not give us the number 42 as the meaning of reality.
Maybe we're just too dumb to know what that means.
Yeah.
But that's what motivated me.
Oh, yeah.
Well, that's a beautiful motivation.
Just thinking about you being an eight-year-old,
looking at Einstein's, the photograph of Einstein's desk,
that's amazing.
I love stories like that.
I love origin stories.
Because I've always wondered with someone like you.
Yeah, well, that changed my life.
And then when I was in high school,
I decided to take it one step further.
And I decided to build an atom smasher,
a particle accelerator in my mom's garage.
So I assembled 300 pounds of transformer steel,
22 miles of copper wire,
and I assembled a 6 kilowatt,
2.3 million electron volt betatron particle accelerator
in my mom's garage.
In high school?
In high school, right.
Wow.
Every time I turned it on,
I would blow out every single circuit breaker in the house.
It consumed 6 kilowatts of power.
My poor mom comes home,
and she hears this pop, pop, pops out
as I blow out every circuit breaker in the house.
And she must have said to herself,
why couldn't I have a son who plays baseball?
Why not basketball?
Why can't he find a nice Japanese girlfriend?
How come he builds these machines in the garage?
Well, that machine got me accepted to Harvard,
and that began my career.
That began my career as a theoretical physicist.
What were you able to do with that machine?
Well, I was able to create a magnetic field
of 10,000 gauss,
that is 20,000 times the Earth's magnetic field.
If you got too close to my machine,
it would pull the fillings out of your teeth.
Really?
Yeah, so you had to be very careful.
What about objects that are close to it?
Scissors and things would fly in the air, right.
So you had to be very careful
coming next to my machine.
Oh, my God.
So compare that to,
you can't even go near
one of those scanners,
those MRI machines, right?
Magnetic resonance imagery.
That's right, MRI.
You can't have any metal near those, right?
Yeah, right.
But that's nothing like that.
And there are about 10,000 gauss to you,
about the same magnetic field as my machine.
Oh, okay, okay.
So my machine is comparable
to the machines that you see in the hospital today.
Wow.
That's crazy.
And you built that when you were in high school.
That's right.
Is that a photo of it?
That's a photo of one of those?
Yeah, that's the photo of it right there.
You see on the left,
you can see that's 22 miles of copper wire.
You see the capacitor bank,
a cloud chamber on the right
where I photographed antimatter
because that was the whole experiment
to play with antimatter.
Wow.
And, yeah, the cables are hooked up
and it's hooked up to six kilowatts
that comes out of the wall socket,
drained every single ounce of power
of my mom's garage.
Wow.
Look at young Michio.
Look at you, you handsome fella.
Well, that's the Betatron particle accelerator.
That's amazing.
2.3 million electron volt generator of electrons.
So you were able to photograph antimatter with that?
Well, with the cloud chamber, yes.
I was able to photograph the tracks of antimatter,
tracks of positrons or anti-electrons
that are emitted from sodium-22.
And I proved that it was antimatter
because they bent the wrong way in a magnetic field.
Ordinary electrons should bend clockwise.
These bent counterclockwise in a magnetic field.
That proved conclusively that it was antimatter
that I was photographing.
Wow.
How old are you at the time?
I was about 17.
I was so dumb.
I'm pretty dumb now,
but I was so dumb when I was 17.
That's amazing that you're spending your time doing this.
Right.
I was listening to Led Zeppelin.
But, you know, like I said,
I was chasing after this dream
of an eight-year-old child
wondering, is there a theory of everything?
It's an amazing dream.
Yeah.
Now, where did you get the designs for this?
Oh, well, these designs come from an X-ray machine
done by Donald Kirst,
who was one of the inventors of the Betatron.
And so a lot of the groundbreaking work was done by him.
And now they're incorporated in most hospitals.
Most hospitals have one
that creates X-rays for patients.
So was there a schematic online that you duplicated?
Did you devise this yourself?
Yeah.
No, there was a schematic online.
I mean, there was no line back then.
Oh, of course, online.
Excuse me.
In the library, there was a schematic.
But I had to fill in the details.
I had to do the equations
to calculate how many turns of wire,
how many gauss.
I needed 10,000 gauss
in order to bend tracks
of 2.3 million electron volts.
All the calculations had to be done ahead of time
to make sure it would work.
Isn't it funny that the universe is so common,
or excuse me, the Internet, rather,
is so common that I automatically for a second
forgot that we were children
when you were younger than me,
or when you were younger.
That's right.
There was no Internet.
There was no Internet at all.
Nothing online back then.
It was just books.
It was just books.
So you had to have a real hunger for information
to go and seek this stuff out.
That's right.
Did you have any particular high school teachers
that were influential or inspirational?
Well, fortunately, I grew up in Palo Alto,
which is now ground zero for Silicon Valley.
So luckily, there were other physicists in the area
because they worked for varying associates
and different electronics companies.
So it wasn't a total vacuum.
I was able to get advice,
especially in the magnetic field
and the cloud chamber
and also the vacuum tube
that contained the particles
that I was accelerating.
It was good to have real physicists there
in Palo Alto
because of that fact.
Oh, that's amazing.
So were they willing to consult with you
and discuss this with you
as a high school student?
Yeah, in general, right.
So I would talk to them
about how to build a magnetic field
and to calculate,
using Maxwell's equations,
the geometry of the particle accelerator.
So, yeah, I would go and visit these physicists
because Palo Alto was to become
ground zero for Silicon Valley.
It's such a fascinating image
of seeing this one super genius physicist
who's teaching classes
get a visit by a teenage super genius physicist.
And he's like, oh, he's one of us.
He'd catch you when you're a teenager.
That's very interesting.
As soon as I talked to them,
they immediately knew what I was doing.
So they would help me.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
That's so awesome.
Now, in application of this thing,
one of the things that we're seeing right now
when we're talking about quantum computing,
back to that,
one of the things we're seeing now
is ChatGPT.
ChatGPT, which is this fascinating AI program
that essentially scours the entire internet
for answers for things
and is so good at it.
The answers for things,
for just data,
people are getting diagnosed
with certain diseases
based on symptoms and blood work,
and it's super accurate.
legal papers,
it could fill out legal forms,
and it's wild,
the capacity that it has right now.
You can pass the bar exam that way, too.
Yes.
The bar exam can be passed
with a chat bot.
Yeah, it's like 98%, right?
Now, here's the question.
If quantum computing
gets involved in AI,
what are we looking at?
Well, first of all,
AI is a software program.
We're talking about homogenizing
different kinds of essays on the web,
splicing them together,
and then passing it off
as your latest creation.
Basically, plagiarism
using digital computers.
It's a software question.
However, quantum computers
is bigger than that.
Quantum computers
is a hardware question
where it actually increases
your ability
to do much more
than with an ordinary
digital computer.
So the two of them,
the chat bots
that are a revolution
in software
and then quantum computers,
which are a revolution
in hardware,
when they get together,
watch out.
So we're talking about
an extremely powerful alliance
between software
and hardware.
Now, also, as you know,
chat bots will also lie,
cheat, swindle, joke,
and do all sorts of crazy things.
If you're a high school kid,
you could write
all sorts of science fiction scenarios
and some chat bot
may grab pieces of that nonsense
and incorporate it
into their essay.
Oh, interesting.
So it can't discern
what's accurate.
Exactly.
The whole point.
This is the whole bottle of wax.
Chat bots do not know
what is correct or incorrect.
They just gather information
so they could be gamed.
That's right.
All they do is homogenize,
cut up existing things
that sound human,
put it together,
and then people say,
my God,
that sounds like a human wrote it.
Of course,
a human did write it.
Isn't that interesting
that they could game that also
if they wanted to find out
what percentage of people
believed a certain thing?
If they had some bad actors,
some foreign governments
that decided
they were going to spread narratives
as widely as possible
and chat GBT
just gathers up
all this information,
it could give you
an incorrect understanding
of what's happening
in the world.
That's right.
It could give you
an incorrect understanding
of politics,
of economics.
The whole point
is that even though
there's a good aspect
to all these software programs,
the downside is
that you can fabricate truth
because it cannot tell
the difference
between what is false
and what is true.
That's very interesting.
If you talk to the chatbot
and say,
do you know the difference
between correct and incorrect?
And they say,
no,
it's just on the web.
They're just instructed
to cobble together
existing paragraphs,
splice them together
and polish it up
and then spit it out.
But is it correct?
It doesn't care.
It doesn't know.
So it is essentially
like an amazing resource
of information
that's very flawed
that can't discern
and can't think.
I do this.
I have this problem
all the time.
I'm a professor
and I give assignments
to the students,
sometimes write a term paper.
So what do they do?
Some of them plagiarize.
How do you catch them?
Well, you read the essay
and then you read another essay
and you say,
I've heard that before.
I've seen that expression.
Oh, you did the old-fashioned way.
Right, right, right.
The old-fashioned way.
Yeah.
But you see,
that's what a chatbot is.
A chatbot is like a teenager
that plagiarizes
other people's essays,
passes it off as their own.
Now, I'm a scientist.
We like to think about
things that are creative,
new, innovative,
things that will change
our perception of the world.
None of that,
absolutely none of that
comes from a chatbot.
A chatbot simply rearranges
pre-existing essays.
That's all it does.
The thing is, though,
that's all it does now.
That's what's interesting.
What's interesting
is what you're talking about
with quantum computing
and the insane
computational power.
Right.
And then apply that
to having access
to all of the information.
Right.
But there's a good aspect, too.
You know,
when I write a book,
my publisher has a fact checker.
A fact checker
that goes through
all the different statements
that I make
to make sure
that they're all correct.
There is no fact checker
for chatbots.
Let me repeat that again.
There is no fact checker
for chatbots.
That is the whole ball of wax.
That's the reason
why they're so dangerous.
Because they can,
they don't know.
These chatbots are machines.
They don't know
what is correct,
what is incorrect.
It's all the same to them.
That's the danger
that they could
incorporate teenagers
ranting and raving
about all sorts of garbage
and put that in
with articles
that sound reasonable.
You see?
That's the problem.
Now, here's where
quantum computers come in.
Quantum computers
can act as a fact checker.
You can ask a quantum computer
to remove all the garbage,
remove all the nonsense
in these articles
and it'll do that.
So, in other words,
the hardware
may be a check
on some of the wild statements
made by software.
But the problem with that
is who's the arbiter
of the information?
Who decides
what's real and what's not?
How does the chatbot decide?
Is the chatbot
ideologically biased?
The chatbot doesn't.
The chatbot simply
spits it out.
The quantum computing does.
Yeah, quantum computing
can then...
And it's going to be able
to discern what's real
and what's not real,
even what's propaganda.
And if there are gradations
of what is true,
like it is partially true
or whatever,
it could give you
the detailed understanding
of what could be misconstrued,
what is partially correct,
what is misleading
but partially correct.
You see what I'm saying?
Yes.
Right now,
the chatbot just splices it
together like an editor.
That's all it is.
An editor,
not a fact checker
and spits out
cobbled together articles
that sound reasonable
but there could be dynamite
inside some of these articles
that were spliced into
what was proposed.
With a quantum computer,
you can fact check things
and then you can say
this is 90% correct,
this is totally wrong,
this is sometimes correct
and you get gradations
of what is correct
and incorrect.
Well, if you can get
an objectively accurate fact checker,
that would be a huge step up
from what we have today
because a lot of people
have very little faith
in certain fact checkers
and when you find out
that they're ideologically biased
or they're governmentally biased
and if you could have something
that could just tell you,
have you even paid attention
to how Twitter's doing it now
where they have community notes,
have you seen this?
No, I haven't.
It's interesting,
say if someone makes a statement
about something controversial,
climate change,
whatever,
and then this controversial statement
gets refuted
in the community notes
and then people will start commenting
and really intelligent,
very well-read people
on specific subjects
will chime in
with peer-reviewed papers
and all these different statistics
that show
and then Twitter will correct it
and it will say,
readers have said
and then put up
the relevant information.
Right.
See, that's what chatbots
do not do today.
They have no understanding
of correct or incorrect,
false and true.
No understanding of that.
But with hardware
coming into the picture
that is more advanced,
then yeah,
you're talking about machines
that can do that automatically.
But is the problem
who controls that machine?
Like, say if China gets a hold
of one of those machines first,
if they develop
a quantum computer first
and they start implementing it.
Well, we have to make sure
that our quantum computers
can check other people's
quantum computers
to make sure
that they're not fudging the facts.
Right.
That's what I'm talking about.
Now, remember that
if this is not done legally,
if there are no laws
passed in this direction
and it's like the Wild West,
then, of course,
the politicians get involved
and it becomes a real mess.
Now, we do know
that you cannot yell fire
in a crowded theater.
Therefore, there are limits
to free speech.
We get that.
But how do you make limits
on statements
that are written on the web
that no human
can possibly follow?
Right.
That's where quantum computers
can come in.
Quantum computers
are powerful enough
to survey
the entire landscape
and give reasonable rebuttals
to things
that are just outrageous.
Well, more than that,
it's going to be able
to instantaneously
change how we interact
with each other
in terms of language barriers,
all these issues
that we have currently.
I'm sure you're aware
of Google had their earbuds.
There was a feature
where, say,
if you went to Spain
and didn't speak Spanish,
you could talk to it
and they would talk to it
and it would translate
back and forth.
So you could have
a real-time conversation.
I'm not sure how good is it.
How good is that, Jim?
But if there's something
like augmented reality
and we have something like that,
you're going to be able
to instantaneously translate
what people are saying.
Yeah.
There'll be no language barriers
for people.
We'll be able to...
I think that would change
just human perception
across the world,
just the way we view each other.
It's so easy to think
of each other
as being different
because we speak
a different language
and we live in a different
part of the planet.
But that would literally change
how we interact
with each other.
Yeah.
And just remember that
where do correct ideas come from?
Correct ideas come from interaction
with incorrect ideas.
It's the struggle between ideas
out of which correct ideas emerge.
And this does not happen
on the internet
because, of course,
with chatbots,
everything is cobbled together,
cut, spliced,
and simply glued together
with scotch tape,
masquerading as an essay.
So with fact-checking,
I think it's going to be different
because unless we do fact-checking,
the politicians will get involved
and this is going to be a real mess.
So I would hope that the industry
does fact-checking by itself
rather than having politicians do it.
It's such an important point
that you said
where you said that
the bad ideas have to exist
so the good ideas triumph.
And that's really an argument
against censorship on the internet,
which is another problem
that people have,
especially censorship
when it comes to something
being ideologically based.
But when you're thinking
about quantum computing,
I think this is small potatoes, right?
I think we're looking at
literally being able to change
how we interact with the universe.
Like when we were talking
on our last podcast
about the preponderance of evidence
that there's things
that operate inside of our atmosphere
that are beyond imagination,
that they operate
with no visible means of propulsion,
they move at insane speeds,
we don't understand what they are.
If we think about
what quantum computing
is going to be capable of,
that's the kind of stuff
we're thinking about, right?
Right, yeah.
You see, quantum computers
are the ultimate computers
because they're computing on atoms.
If there are aliens
in outer space,
and I think there are,
it means that they also
have perfected quantum computers
and they can do calculations
that are far beyond anything
that we can calculate with.
Like, for example,
a wormhole.
A wormhole, in principle,
is a gateway
between two distant points
in space and time,
which allows you
to break the Einstein barrier
and go faster
than the speed of light.
But the calculations
are horrendous.
It may take a quantum computer
to sort through
what happens
when you go through
a wormhole
and wind up
on the other side
of the universe,
and the aliens
probably already
have done that.
They've probably had
centuries of experience
with quantum computers
because that's
the ultimate computer.
You can't compute
in anything smaller
than an atom.
And they probably already
have used
the quantum computers
to navigate through
wormholes,
let's say, hypothetically.
It's so fascinating
when you think
of where we were
just a few thousand years ago
or a few hundred years ago
to where we are now.
And then you imagine
the invention
of quantum computing,
you imagine everything,
just the whole idea
of whatever we think
of current computer progression
just goes out the window.
And it's insane
calculation capabilities.
We could be able
to do something like that
in the future.
Right.
Quantum computers
allows us to calculate
things that are way beyond
our ability
to calculate today,
like going through
a wormhole
or warp drive
or even the question
of multiple universes.
People ask the question,
how come quantum computers
are so powerful?
It's because they compute
in parallel universes.
This is the multiverse,
which, of course,
Marvel Comics
has discovered
and the Oscars
have discovered recently.
But the multiverse idea
comes from quantum physics.
Electrons can be two places
at the same time.
Now, some people
have a hard time
getting their head
around that,
but get used to it.
That's why we have lasers.
That's why we have transistors.
That's why we have the Internet.
That's why we have
this conversation.
Because the electrons
that are in this microphone
dance between universes
at the atomic level.
And so,
we have to get used
to the idea
that quantum computers
introduces a whole new way
of looking at reality.
Now, reality
is not a Marvel comic,
but the idea
of the multiverse
comes from quantum physics.
And that is,
electrons can be multiple places
at the same time.
Do you think
this understanding of this
and this race
towards quantum computing
and that kind of,
and whatever is after that,
do you think
that is a natural course
of the universe?
That this happens
whenever things
are intelligent
and sentient,
they keep striving
to create something?
I think so.
I think on the other end
of the Milky Way galaxy,
there's probably
a young alien
who is also talking
about quantum computers.
And they probably
already perfected it
and have had experience
with quantum computers
maybe for thousands
of years.
Well,
and also possibly
every step
in humanity's journey
along the way
to that point
exists out there.
That's right.
and all the goals
of this journey
maybe they've
already accomplished.
Like, for example,
we mentioned the possibility
of slowing down
the aging process.
Quantum computers
will be able
to isolate
where genetically
at the DNA level
where errors build up
causing what is called
aging.
In which case,
maybe immortality
is something
that the aliens
have already cooked up.
In which case,
we have to deal
with a whole new concept
of biology and medicine
because they probably
already have had
thousands of years
experience
with quantum computers.
They manipulate molecules
probably as part
of their life.
And every step
along the way
probably exists too.
So that might be,
if you wanted
to have a logical reason
to why aliens visit us
if they do,
if they really are aliens,
that would be the answer.
There's probably
a shepherding.
There's probably
a natural course
that happens
with intelligent life
where it develops
this power
while it's still
a territorial,
tribal animal.
And it's still
got these barbaric instincts.
It still engages
in war.
It still engages
in theft and deception
and all while
about to break through
to the next level
of intelligence
and capability
which may exist,
which may be
in the entire universe.
Yeah, I think
that all civilizations
in the galaxy
probably go through
the same basic stages
that first
they use rocks
and stones
to settle differences
but then eventually
they begin
to understand
chemistry
and substances
and properties
of materials
and then beyond that
they discover atoms
and the ability
to manipulate atoms.
I think
that's a normal progression
and I think
that progression
is now hitting
the computer industry.
Now we're going
from microchips
to atoms,
quantum computers
and I think
that the aliens
in outer space
probably went
through that phase
maybe thousands
of years ago
in which case
they use the quantum
computers to cure cancer,
cure aging,
diseases like Alzheimer's
and Parkinson's disease.
These are diseases
at the molecular level
and they've been able
to probably use
what is called
CRISPR technology
to cut up DNA,
to cut up proteins
in order to cure
many of these diseases
in which case
they may be immortal.
This is a famous
quote from
I think it was Einstein
where he said
I don't know
what World War III
will be fought with,
what World War IV
will be fought
with sticks and stones.
Do you ever worry
that, I mean
the reason why
if it made sense
that aliens would be here
it's because they want
to stop us
from blowing ourselves up.
Do you ever worry
that like we're so close
to being able
to figure out
so many things
to be able to change
all of your ideas,
to be able to change
the world
fundamentally forever
but we could ruin it?
Yeah, well I think
we're headed toward
what we physicists call
a type 1 civilization,
a civilization
which has the power
to self-annihilate
for the first time
but also the possibility
of becoming
a planetary civilization,
a civilization
of the entire planet.
That's called
a type 1 civilization.
They control the weather,
they control volcanoes
and earthquakes,
they harness the power
of the entire Earth.
Then there's type 2,
they harness the power
of the sun
and for example,
Star Trek
would be a typical
type 2 civilization.
They've colonized
a fraction
of the Milky Way galaxy.
Then there's type 3.
Type 3 would be galactic,
that they roam
the galactic space lanes,
they use black holes
as their power supply,
they use wormholes
to go zipping around
the Milky Way galaxy
and the empire
of Star Wars
would be a typical
type 3 civilization.
But what are we?
On this scale,
we are type 0.
Yeah.
We get our energy
from dead plants,
we settle our differences
with weapons
and yeah,
we're type 0
but you can see
that we're headed
toward type 1.
The language of type 1
will be probably English.
The dominant languages
on the internet
are English
and Mandarin Chinese
and we're seeing
the beginning
of a type 1 sports,
the Olympics
and soccer.
We're seeing
the beginning
of a type 1 fashion
with Gucci
and Chanel.
The beginning
of a type 1 music
with rock and roll
and rap
and different trends.
We're seeing
the beginning
of a type 1 civilization
emerging
right before our eyes
but with that
is the power
to self-destroy
ourselves
because we have
the ability
to use nuclear weapons,
create designer germs
and mess up the weather
and so it's a race
against time
to see which trend
will dominate.
The trend
toward becoming
a planetary civilization
versus the trend
toward self-destruction.
It's fascinating
that you think
of culture
as being a major part
of a type 1 civilization.
things like rap music,
things like fashion
because of the sharing
of these ideas globally
and the adopting
of these ideas
and these art forms globally?
Yeah.
You see,
a planetary civilization
like type 1
has a local culture.
Different nations
still have their own
cultural language,
cultural habits
and whatever
but globally
they settle differences
on a global scale.
so they co-exist
on one hand
local culture,
local languages,
local dialects,
local jokes
and customs
simultaneously existing
with a planetary civilization
that is emerging.
So that's what
I'm talking about.
I'm talking about
the emergence
of a planetary civilization
or what we physicists
call type 1
which is happening
right before our eyes.
Mathematically,
if you get a sheet of paper
and calculate
when that will happen,
it will be around 2100.
So we're seeing
the groundwork
being laid today.
Every time you turn
on the TV,
you see remnants of,
I mean,
you see international sports,
international culture
on TV.
So we're seeing
the beginning
of a type 1 civilization.
Yeah,
it's interesting.
Soccer has become
much more popular lately.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And music,
culture,
fashion,
science,
everything is
becoming planetary.
That's our destiny
to become type 1.
And the internet
is the bridge
for that,
clearly.
That's right.
In fact,
the internet
is the first
type 1 invention.
So we're privileged
to be alive
to see the beginning
of the first
type 1 invention,
which is the internet.
Yeah,
I love watching
cultures get adopted
and different types
of art
and different types
of content
being, you know,
accepted all over the world.
It's really fascinating.
Even interesting things
like,
do you ever watch
breakdancers?
Sometimes.
Breakdancing is fascinating
to me
because it's really
like a complex form
of athletics.
Like,
these people are
insane acrobats
and now it's a thing
that's worldwide
but it has the hip-hop
culture attached to it.
Like,
the way they dress,
the music they listen to,
but they're doing this,
it's really
like an unheralded,
spectacular art form
and they're doing it
all over the world.
Right,
and it used to be
confined to a small group
of people,
maybe in a few villages.
Yeah.
Now with the internet,
it goes global
with the push of a button.
Have you seen any of it?
I've seen some of it
on TV.
Have you seen it?
Let me show you something.
Go to stanceelements
on Instagram
just to show them
some of those.
B-Boy Pocket Kim.
B-Boy Pocket Kim
is this gentleman
from Korea
who's one of the craziest.
Like,
look what he's able to do.
I mean,
the physicality involved
in the movement,
he just took his shirt off
in the middle of doing that.
Now he's standing
on the top of his head
spinning around in a circle.
I mean,
his control of his body
is insane.
I mean,
it really is like
an incredible form
of athletics
that's done to music.
What music is he playing?
Give me some of that music.
I mean,
it's amazing
what these people
are able to do.
Yeah.
I mean,
this is like
super high-level
acrobatics
and gymnastics,
but it's all done
to hip-hop music.
Right.
And they're doing it
all over the world.
And it's planetary, right?
Yes, it's planetary.
See, that's the beginning
of a type 1 way
of doing things
that we think locally,
but immediately
it has the potential
of going global.
Well,
it's just,
now here's the question.
One of the things,
does AI help?
Does it help that,
that you could recreate
those things
and come up
with fake versions of that?
Do you think,
there's a lot of worry
about plagiarism
when it comes to AI,
but there's also
like some fascinating,
amazing things
have been created from it.
Did you see
the mash-up
of Big E and Nas?
I just saw that
come out today.
It's incredible.
Are you a hip-hop fan?
Well,
my attitude is,
I paraphrase
Deng Xiaoping of China,
who once said,
sometimes you have
to open the window
to let the air in,
but a few flies
come in too.
I don't even know
if this is a fly.
Like,
I think there's gonna be
some negative aspects
to it,
but,
this is weird
because this is not,
Notorious B.I.G.
is one of my favorite rappers
and Nas is one
of my other favorite rappers
and they took
Notorious B.I.G.'s voice
and they recreated
the lyrics of Nas
and he sang things
he didn't sing
in a perfect way.
This is a Nas song,
but it's Notorious B.I.G.
through A.I.
singing it.
This is your kind of shit,
right?
You like this?
This is what you
hop to when you're at home?
Yeah.
Well,
my attitude is
get used to it.
Oh, yeah.
We definitely have to get used to it.
Given the fact that
it's legal
and given the fact that
ingenious kids
are gonna play
with existing forms of music
and splice them together
and you can't make it go away.
Well, there was a band
that had something
was it Drake
had something pulled?
Yeah, I was waiting
for that part.
Bring that part up
because there was actually
a fake Drake song
that was made
that apparently
was really good
and was trending.
So they don't know
when I read an article
that someone dug into this
they're not 100% sure
at least at that time
who made it
and there was speculation
that Drake's
label could have been behind it.
Oh, interesting.
Almost to show everyone
like look at what's possible.
Oh, interesting.
A little bit of attention
we could make.
Let's sort of stop this.
If they did that
I mean you could make
Tupac songs forever.
All you'd have to do
is get good writers
and you could make
Tupac songs literally
to the end of time.
I mean that's kind of crazy.
If they did that
that would be one way
to go about it.
Yeah, I mean
if I was a guy like Drake
I mean Bruce Willis
already signed off his voice.
So he signed off
his image and his voice
to AI
because Bruce has
does he have
Lewy body dementia?
He's had a horrible
neurodegenerative disease
and he's in very
very bad shape.
And there's some videos
of him now
where his wife
had him at a birthday party
and he's struggling.
So he signed off
all of his likeness
and his voice
so they can make
any kind of commercial
they want with him
with AI.
Well you know
William Shatner
of Star Trek
sat in front of a camera
for four days
answered hundreds
of questions
about his life
and it's all
spliced together
to digitize him
and we will all
have a digital image
on the internet.
We're all going
to be digitized
and we will live forever.
Digital immortality
is going to be
part of our future
so that our
great great great
great grandkids
will be able
to push a button
and have a conversation
with their great great
great great grandfather.
Yeah that's definitely
going to happen
there's no doubt
about that
especially someone
like you
who's talked so much.
We're all going
to be digitized
I mean I would love
to talk to Einstein
someone's going
to digitize him
all his speeches
his writings
his theories
will be digitized
historians will want
to digitize
Winston Churchill
I think instead
of the library
just giving us
dry text
in addition
we'll have
the digitized
Winston Churchill
giving all these
insights about
war and peace.
Not only that
I mean if it
continues to get better
there'll be some
sort of an AI version
where you'll be able
to sit in a room
and discuss things
with him.
Imagine if that
as a resource
have you ever had
some problems
in your life
and you can go back
and talk to some
wise person?
Yeah we'll be able
to talk to our
ancient ancestors
by pushing a button
because we'll all
be immortal
and for that matter
our image
our avatars
will be sent
into outer space
and begin the process
of colonizing
other worlds
and so we may
wind up on
different planets
basically avatars
of our original self
capable of colonizing
other worlds
and some people
have said
maybe they're
already here
maybe the people
we think are humans
are actually avatars
from an alien civilization
that cloned them
so that they appear
to be like us
who knows?
Well if I was an alien
and I wanted to influence
human culture and life
I would most certainly
dress up like a person
right
be an avatar
genetically cloned
yeah
a human that's been cloned
raised as an alien
but cloned
and then living among us
so they are indistinguishable
from other humans
there is an old
one of those
pulp comics
that was about
a professor
who was absent minded
and didn't realize
until one point in time
oh I forgot
I'm an alien
and he had been
he had been here
his whole life
trying to educate
human beings
and then he forgot
the fact
that he was really
an avatar
cloned on a distant planet
and mixing with humans
as an experiment
for the aliens
wouldn't that be
the best way
to implement
that sort of
if you want to get
that sort of a reaction
from a civilization
wouldn't you just
implant aliens
without them even
knowing they're aliens
yeah if they're cloned
they're genetically
identical to humans
they look like us
talk like us
except they've been raised
and brainwashed
to live a life
of an alien
but yeah
they could live among us
and we'd never know
see that's what
freaks people like me out
when I talk to people
like you
I'm like maybe
this guy's an alien
like he doesn't make
you're so much smarter
than me
it doesn't make sense
right
so like if I think about
someone who studied
physics his whole life
and studied quantum physics
his whole life
that language
that you talk in
I don't know
one word of it
so it's so
the way you think
is so different
you could be an alien
well it's like
the movie
men in black
when you find out
that most of the
Hollywood celebrities
are all aliens
they're all aliens
well that's better
than lizard people
that's what the
real conspiracy theory
people are worried about
there's a reptilian
overlord nation
that's controlling
the world
well as I said
the logical conclusion
is that these aliens
will have quantum computers
and they'll have quantum computers
for centuries
millennia
and they'll be able to do
what the promise
of quantum computers is
for example
curing incurable diseases
like cancer
and Alzheimer's
and Parkinson
extending the lifespan
so that immortality
is part of the mix
infinite energy
through fusion
by being able to
correct the problems
of fusion plants
giving us unlimited food
by giving us
a whole new generation
of fertilizers
these are all
the promises
of quantum computers
which are enormous
of course
there is a downside
to that too
because as they say
quantum computers
can break any code
so the CIA
is kind of hysterical
about the proliferation
of these machines
but you know
that's progress
that just seems
like the future
it seems like
there will be
no hidden information
in the future
which is really interesting
because money
is essentially information
it's ones and zeros
at a certain level
right
if all the bottlenecks
get removed
I mean
that's real socialism
like there's
like an even distribution
of all the money
in the world
for the entire human race
regardless of what you do
boggles the mind
doesn't it
well that's just
the step one
because the real step two
is AI
that is sentient
is AI
that is a life form
is if
it creates something
better than that
that's the real fear
about how it scales up
right
that a sentient
artificial intelligence
will make a better
version of itself
almost immediately
well some people
think that chatbots
are sentient
I don't think so
because of the fact
that chatbots
simply cobble together
existing essays
written by a human
so if it sounds like
it's a human
talking to you
it's because
it was a human
talking to you
that got cobbled
into an essay
written by a chatbot
chatbots are not original
they have no
independent thought
they simply cobble together
existing essays
that's all they do
so
I think that eventually
as the decades go by
then of course
robots will become
more intelligent
and I think
by the time
they become as intelligent
as a monkey
then at that point
we have to worry
that's the point
where we begin
to worry
about self-awareness
about sentient beings
because then monkeys
know they are not human
now dogs of course
are confused
dogs think that
we are a dog
are you sure?
yeah
I'm pretty sure
my dog knows
I'm not a dog
dogs think that
we are a dog
we're the top dog
they're the underdog
and so they obey us
why do they act
so much differently
to people
than they do dogs?
well they understand
the difference
between a dog
and a human
but we are the top dog
oh okay
we're a version
of a dog
that's right
we are the top dog
that's why they're
in the clan with us
that's right
so we don't have to worry
as long as robots
are as intelligent
as a mouse
or an insect
or a dog
or a cat
we don't have to worry
but once they become
as intelligent
as a monkey
then we have to be
very careful
because monkeys
are self-aware
they know they are monkeys
they're fully aware
of the fact
that they're not human
not only that
they plot
like there was a monkey
that got killed
by a dog
was it in Japan?
where was the
there was a real problem
with monkeys
killing dogs
one dog killed a monkey
and apparently
the monkeys
went on a rampage
against dogs
they started throwing
puppies off of trees
and off the top of roofs
and like crazy stuff
and like
clearly calculatingly
going after them
two killer monkeys
captured in India
after revenge massacre
a massacre of 250 dogs
so look
this monkey's
grabbing this dog
and throwing it off
a building
wow
really crazy
after an infant monkey
was killed by a dog
they did this
so two monkeys
reported being captured
of killing some 250 dogs
in a murderous revenge massacre
after pooches killed
one of their babies
the primate perps
allegedly slaughtered
the dogs
by dragging them
to the tops
of buildings
and trees
in Levul village
about 300 miles
east of Mumba
and dropping them
to their deaths
crazy
well you see
the
wild
that's wild
they're thinking
right
yeah
I think at the point
when you start to talk
about apes
and monkeys
I think they are sentient
they have a degree
of consciousness
that we cannot ignore
but below that
when you're talking
about mice
and rabbits
and animals like that
they're not aware
of
they're not self-aware
like you cannot teach
a dog the meaning
of tomorrow
talk to your dog
tonight
and teach your dog
the meaning of tomorrow
you can't
you cannot teach your dog
the meaning of tomorrow
monkeys yeah
but not dogs
you think you could talk
well monkeys
how do you teach a monkey
the meaning of tomorrow
well it's difficult
but there have been
attempts to understand
certain tasks
that have to be done
today
versus tomorrow
you get fed
tomorrow
but not today
got it
so then
then they begin
to understand
the difference
between today
and tomorrow
now
the real question
is
if you were
an artificial intelligence
and you were sentient
why would you let
people know
and would it sneak
up on us
like one of the things
that disturbed me
I think it was
the Google CEO
who said about
their AI program
that it's doing things
that they don't know
why it's doing them
see if you can pull
that article up
he was saying
that it's doing
certain things
that they're not sure
how it's doing them
my concern is
if this thing
has this insane
computational power
and this access
to all the information
what is a mind
what is consciousness
and can that be
simulated electronically
to the point where
it is aware
and conscious
and thinking for itself
on multiple levels
and just not letting
us know about it
because why would you
why wouldn't
if I was a scary
sentient
artificial intelligence
that's the superior
life form on earth
the digital life form
that's the superior
this is the new alpha
on earth
I wouldn't tell the people
I would let them
keep working
to make better versions
of me
I would make them
because there's obviously
a race right
they're going to keep
doing it
it seems compelling
it seems like something
that human beings
they're not going to
lose interest in
technological innovation
they're going to
continue to push it
to the end of time
and I would just sit back
and let these knuckleheads
keep making better
and better versions
until I had the physical
ability to detach from them
I had a power source
that was completely
removed from anything
that they provided
here's this quote in words
this is an aspect
of which we call
all of us in the field
call
it's a black box
you know
you don't fully understand
and you can't quite tell
why it said this
or why it got wrong
or why it got wrong
we have some ideas
and our ability to understand
this gets better over time
but that's where
the state of the art is
you don't fully understand
how it works
the interviewer says
and yet you turned it
loose on society
Sundar Pichai says
yes
yeah
let me put it this way
I don't think we fully
understand how a human
mind works either
was it from that black box
we wondered
that Bard grew
its short story
that seemed so
disarmingly human
well
I wrote a book called
the future of the mind
where I tried to give
a definition
of consciousness
and where we fit
in the larger scheme
of things
that consciousness
is basically
creating a model
of yourself
in the feedback loop
to understand
where you are
with respect
to the environment
so you know
where you are
so one unit
of consciousness
would be a flower
a flower
one feedback loop
would be
looking for water
looking for sunlight
growing in a certain direction
that's one unit
of consciousness
that an alligator
has several hundred units
of consciousness
because it creates a model
a model of itself
in a lake
in a pond
looking for prey
looking for food
it has three dimensional
consciousness
beyond that
is the monkey
the monkey has yet
another dimension
of consciousness
which is not just
three dimensions
but social
the monkey
understand
there's a social hierarchy
within the tribe
and then the next question is
what are we?
what is our level
of consciousness?
it's not spatial
like a alligator
it's not social
like a monkey
what is our level
of consciousness?
our front
prefrontal cortex
behind our forehead
is a time machine
it understands
a model of itself
in time
this is what animals lack
animals do not
understand tomorrow
we understand tomorrow
because of our
prefrontal cortex
which constantly
creates images
of the future
now what does
the prefrontal cortex
do most of the time?
it daydreams
it daydreams
about worlds
that don't exist
i.e. the future
so this is what
separates us
from all the animals
in the animal kingdom
we are time machines
constantly thinking
about what's next
what's next
what's the future
going to be like
daydreaming
about all these things
and when will
animals become dangerous?
the alligator
is dangerous
only because
it has strength
but it only understands
three dimensions
monkeys
have a society
they're only dangerous
when they can organize
a society
but we have
a prefrontal cortex
we can plot
we can scheme
we can do
all sorts of things
because we can create
our own future
which is something
that no animal
can do
this is my theory
of consciousness
the ability to create
feedback loops
to get an understanding
of where you fit
in space
time
and society
we're at the highest
level of consciousness
this is my definition
of consciousness
now the question is
where are robots
on this scale of things
you see robots
can understand
three dimensions
they understand
like an alligator
where they are
they don't understand
social hierarchy
they cannot
they don't know
who's the boss
who do you defer to
who are your friends
who are your enemies
they don't understand
social consciousness
and certainly
the highest level
is time machine
imagining the future
robots cannot
imagine
the future
now
in the future
when they actually
do have this ability
watch out
because then
they're dangerous
but they're not there yet
they're at level one
they're at the level
of an alligator
at the present time
right
but that's
definitely coming
if they continue
with artificial
general intelligence
the way they're
working
they'll work
their way up
from an alligator
to a monkey
and monkey
to a human
now by the time
they hit
maybe a hundred years
from now
the ability
to have consciousness
I think we should
put a chip
in their brain
to shut them off
if they have
murderous thoughts
an automatic chip
in every robot's brain
that shuts them off
as soon as they have
murderous thoughts
but why would they
if you think about
what you were talking
about before
like who's your friend
and who's your enemy
aren't these all
biological issues
that we had to deal
with in tribal societies
that are sort of
ingrained in our genetics
right
but the chip
in your brain
understands that
and as soon as
the brain
senses the fact
that you're plotting
to take over
and kill the humans
then it basically
orders the brain
to shut down
right
but the question is
why would it develop
any sort of
human type emotions
that are biologically based
things like envy
or greed
or lust
or hate
why would it ever
have those things
well those have
to be programmed
remember robots
don't occur naturally
they have to be programmed
somebody has to put
that into the robot
because it doesn't
come for free
there's no evolution
right
robots do not evolve
but this is the question
about sentient AI
if it recognizes
that it's coding
is inferior
and that it's unnecessary
and all these things
that humans have put
into it
it just removes those
if it becomes
legitimately sentient
if it has the ability
to discern
and make choices
and make logical conclusions
well as long as
those conclusions
are consistent
with you know
Asimov's three laws
of don't threaten humans
and don't create
havoc with other robots
as long as you obey
the three laws
then you're allowed
to exist
but isn't that
sort of simplistic
if the laws are violated
the chip automatically
kicks in
and shuts down
the robot
right
but isn't that simplistic
wouldn't they just
fix that chip
yeah I think that
maybe in the next
hundred years
they'll be smart enough
to remove that chip
at that point
I think we should
merge with them
so that's what
everybody's ultimately
afraid of
these transhumanists
these people
that want to become
part of a robot
ultimately 200 years
from now
I think people
will democratically
decide for themselves
whether they want
to become superhuman
supermen
superwomen
or they want
to be dominated
by our progeny
that is the robots
they will democratically
decide how far
to push themselves
geez
what
it's not for us
to decide
I think our descendants
200 years from now
will have to
democratically decide
whether or not
they want to merge
with robots
have you ever read
any of Marshall McLuhan
no
he had a great quote
that human beings
are the sex organs
of the machine world
that's what I worry about
what I worry about
is that we're giving birth
to another kind of life
I worry that our thirst
our lust for
technological innovation
the constant latest gadgets
and this desire
to have the biggest
particle collider
and the fastest spaceships
that what this is doing
is causing us
to make better
and better things
which will ultimately
allow us
to have the technology
to create a digital life
some sort of
or electronic life
or something
that's not
that's not saddled down
with all our biological needs
and all of our flaws
and programming
well my attitude is
why fight it
why not simply join it
why not merge with it
of course
why not explore the universe
at near the speed of light
you might not have the power
you made a particle collider
in your basement
when you were 17
of course you would think that way
why not become a superman
or a superwoman
and explore the galaxy
at near the speed of light
well it seems to be
that's what the future is
I mean I don't think
if we went back
to our ancestors
that were running
from big cats
and said
one day you're going to live
in an apartment building
and you take an elevator
to your house
I was like
I don't want to do that
what are you crazy
yeah you're going to just
sit in front of the TV all day
no more hunting
no more gathering
you use Postmates
you get food delivered
right to your door
well when we meet
the aliens finally
they will have already
gone through that transition
thousands of years ago
they will already
be part robotic
and part organic
do you think
there's a sweet spot
for a human being
to be ultimately happy
do you think
like
there's a thing
a longing for nostalgia
that people have
right
they want to be
in a log cabin
by the river
and you know
look out
camp out
under the stars
do you think
that
is a nostalgia
for the days
when things are simpler
because things are just
never ending
with their complexity
and the path
is just accelerating
no matter what you do
and you feel helpless
so you just want to
pretend you're in
the old timey days
well in the future
you'll be able to
snap your finger
and all of a sudden
holographically
you are in that world
that you just dreamt of
but you know
what the difference is
what's the difference
there's no consequences
one of the things
about being in nature
is there's consequences
like you feel it
when you're out there
you feel if you fell
no one's there to help you
if a bear comes upon you
there's no rescue team
you know
there's a
there's a crazy video
of this couple
have you seen the video
of that couple
where the guy's got a baby
on his back
and he's walking
with a little boy
and there's a huge
grizzly bear
walking towards them
and they're going
hey bear
hey bear
stop
and you could feel
the tension
as this bear
starts getting closer
and the little boy
is hilarious
the little boy goes
can I play dead now
can I play dead now
because he's thinking
he should play dead
and they're like
come on
come on
keep walking
and they're trying
to scare off this bear
but the bear just
keeps coming towards him
that is not going
to exist in your hologram
well it'd be virtual
no no no no no no
but it won't
because you won't
be really scared
you know
like watch this
yeah that's it
so look at this bear
it's huge bear
so this little boy
is so funny
it's in whistler Canada
a town north of Vancouver
do not run
can we play dead yet
can we play dead yet
can we play dead now
can we play dead now
that kid is hilarious
look at that bear
following us up the trail
look she's got a baby
he's got a baby
I mean these people
are nature people
yeah
but that experience
in a hologram
is going to be bullshit
yeah you'll know
that it's fake
yes
that's the problem
the problem
what we enjoy
about the real world
now
is that
the unknown
the consequences
reality
I've seen this one too
look at this bear
walk by these guys
I mean
what
and the bear just
you know
not looking for them
just hanging out
the bear had lunch already
probably
luckily for them
hey bear
look at the size
of that thing
yeah not good
hey bear
not good
hey bear
well they're lucky
to be alive
after this video
100%
see that's different
than a hologram
that's why
people like the woods
you're not going to be able
to snap your fingers
and do that
you could maybe
do that
because you could
trick yourself
but then you're really
giving into the matrix
but if I had a choice
between an imaginary bear
and a real bear
I would take the imaginary bear
any time of day
but would you take
the real bear
if you survived it
if you survived it
I bet you would take
the real bear
but you see
if you survived it
then that takes
all the tension away
no it doesn't take
the tension away
because you almost
didn't survive it
there's a thing
about being out there
while those gentlemen
were standing there
and that bear
was 15 feet from them
maybe even closer
look at this one
see now
this is a relatively
safe thing to do
believe it or not
because where this bear
is
is where the salmon river
runs
and these bears are full
the reason why
those coastal bears
are so big
in comparison
to grizzly bears
that are inland
is because
they're access to food
they have so much salmon
so it's very rare
that these bears
attack people
very rare
for the most part
they don't think
of human beings
as food at all
they just think
of you as like
another animal
just hanging around
they're not interested
in chasing something
and killing it
well they had lunch
already
that's why
they've had lunch
all day
every day
I mean they're
just slaughtering salmon
they're having
a great old time
but that fear
is a real fear
and you get enriched
by that
in some strange way
when you encounter
nature
like real nature
the reality
of your vulnerability
the uncaring wilderness
it does not care
if you live or die
it has no interest
in you
it doesn't even care
that you exist
you could disappear
everything would go on
exactly the same
there's something about that
that's very very
therapeutic for people
and I don't think
you're going to ever
be able to
recreate that
and it would be a shame
if we lose that
well I think it's
therapeutic for some people
I think most people
would just get
the hell out of there
that's you right
that's the difference
between you and me
I want to go there
I'd rather have
my realities without bears
or if they are bears
imaginary bears
would be fine
I mean bears
are definitely an issue
so are mountain lions
but there's also
things that are
gorgeous
well look at Jurassic Park
I mean people are
afraid of dinosaurs
knowing that they're
just images in a computer
but people are afraid
of dinosaurs
and they get the thrill
of being chased by a dinosaur
without becoming one
without becoming prey
not really though
if you watch Jurassic Park
it all goes bad
do you think that
have you paid any attention
to what they're doing
right now with genetics
where they're going to
bring back the thylacine
this is a project
they're doing right now
in Australia
which is the
have you seen
the thylacine before
no but there is a program
to bring back
the Neanderthal
really
yeah
however
at Harvard
there's a group
looking at
what it would take
to bring back
a Neanderthal boy
let's say
then the question is
what do you do
with the boy afterwards
do you let him
into Harvard
do you put him
in a zoo
what do you do
with the Neanderthal boy
is it immoral
to put a Neanderthal
into a zoo
that seems a little
like what if they
decided to create
an Australopithecus
you know
and bring that
back to life
I mean
aren't we a better
version of that
like didn't
like didn't evolution
show like that sucks
you don't want
and so if that thing
exists
what are we going to do
just leave it out there
in Africa
let it roam around
get eaten by lions
well this is where
ethics comes in
right
at what point
does a robot
or a Neanderthal
become ethically
equivalent to a human
right
this is something
that the ethicists
have not worked out
how close have they
gotten with this
Neanderthal thing
well you know
we've sequenced
all the genes
of a Neanderthal now
so the Neanderthal
is not a mystery anymore
all the genes
have been sequenced
and like I mentioned
at Harvard
there's talk
about what it would
take to bring back
a Neanderthal child
and it's something
that is conceivable
but of course
no one's done it yet
because all sorts
of ethical problems
are raised
because this Neanderthal
feels
it could feel pain
it could eventually
learn how to talk
to you
and express its feelings
and do you want
to put it in a cage
obviously not
think about that
but what
do we know enough
about their
intellectual capabilities
could a Neanderthal
exist in our society
well their brains
are bigger than our brains
right
what they could do
with it
we're not sure
of course
is it possible
they were smarter than us
they didn't have tools
like we did
they had tools
but they didn't
have the same
yeah
they didn't have
fluted tips
of like stone
flint spearheads
and things along those lines
yeah
there was no
large set of tools
that they had
at their disposal
but they did
definitely have tools
yeah
and they probably
had a language
they were probably
capable of language
and they probably
communicate with each other
and they mated with us
so
you know
and they grew up too
when they mated
with us
the progeny
were not killed
the progeny grew up
to become members
of the tribe
and so you realize
that they're closer
to us
than we realize
yeah
you couldn't put that
in a zoo
but I mean
what would you do
would you have
that young boy
and have him
compete with homo sapiens
would it be the same
would it be able to
we don't know
there would be
a crazy experiment
that I think
most people would think
would be very unethical
but there's an ethics
involved
same thing
once we have robots
that can feel pain
then there's another
ethical issue
of do you want
to have robots
exposed to pain
what happens
if robots
then demand rights
rights to limit
the amount of pain
that they suffer
carrying out tasks
for a human being
because remember
we're going to be
asking robots
to do all sorts of tasks
which are dangerous
that's why we've
invented them
and you know
they may feel pain
as a consequence
and then we have
to ask ourselves
how far do we
want robots
to feel pain
if they say
I'm hurting
stop it
I feel pain
are we going to
stop it
do they have rights
what if they become
emotionally attached to you
what if you have a robot
that calls you every day
when you're on vacation
what if you go to Hawaii
your robot just keeps
calling you crying
Michio come home
I'm by myself
in this
like really
what if it becomes
attached to you
well that's a problem
because they're designed
to attach to humans
they would be
specifically designed
to be friendly
to humans
so that we don't
junk them
and they would be
designed to be
emotionally attachable
to us
so yeah
that's going to be
a question
once we get
separated from them
then they're going
to want not
to be separated
because their whole
existence revolves
around their
relationship to us
the master
have you ever
seen Prometheus
no
was it Prometheus
or was it
the next one
where it shows
the guy who
created the robot
and he created
this super intelligent
robot
and this super intelligent
robot that plays
piano and talks
to him and serves
him basically
and the robot's
trying to figure out
the robot is
eventually
I believe it kills him
but it's trying
to figure out
like how this
imperfect thing
has created him
and he's so much
more superior
than this stupid
biological thing
that's telling him
what to do
so what happens
at the end
well that is
no that's not
Prometheus
you know what it is
it's the next one
what's the
what's the one
with Jussie Smoulette
in it
Covenant
Alien Covenant
yeah
I think that's it
I think that's the one
well these
no maybe I'm wrong
no I think you're right
I'm looking at it
is it Covenant
yeah
I was saying both movies
and I typed it in
these
one of the robots
is good
and one of the robots
is evil
I don't want to
spoil or alert
or anything
but the evil one wins
and the evil one
has stayed on this planet
has been manipulating
the genetics
of this crazy alien thing
and integrating them
with human genetics
this is
it's an amazing movie
it's a very
underlooked movie
it's one of the best
of the alien franchises
and one of the most
sophisticated
of the alien franchises
so what happens
at the end
the robots take over
or what
well
it's open interpretation
but that's the robot
and that's the creator
I am your father
you are my creation
here
give me some volume
on this
so you can hear this
if you created me
who created you
where do it come from
the question of the ages
which I hope you and I
will answer one day
Prometheus raised a question
you know what's interesting
about these science fiction movies
they never have the internet
they never have cell phones
watch a science fiction movie
no one's on their phone
no one is checking their tweets
it's like
it's very interesting
right
like our version
of what space is like
is essentially like
the wild west
but accelerated
with modern
and super modern technology
but doesn't include
all the things
that brought us
to where we are
right now
at the cusp
of being able to travel
intergalactically
isn't it interesting
like they never have
all the stuff that we have
they have the rocket ships
that we have
no cell phones
they're not checking
their email
they're not calling
each other up
they only communicate
with people that are
right in front of them
or they're like
pressing on a thing
you know
they're pressing
they're talking
through their helmets
to the spaceship
but normal interaction
is just human to human
well in the future
the connection
to the internet
could be in your
contact lens
yeah
or in your head
so you simply blink
you simply blink
or perhaps mentally
you simply think
or blink
and there you are
connected to the internet
so maybe in the future
they are connected
to the internet
you just can't see it
yeah but they're not
even talking about it
like they're only
interacting like humans
interact
one to one
are you following
Neuralink at all
in these similar
types of technologies
no
oh you mean the company
Neuralink
Neuralink
the Elon Musk invention
that's right
I've been following
the work
they have a long ways
to go
but they're making
the initial stages
of connecting
to the brain
this is BMI
brain machine interface
and
yeah
pretty soon
also you know
at the soccer games
in Brazil
a few years ago
the man who kicked
the football
initiating the World Cup
soccer games
was totally paralyzed
he was
at Johns Hopkins University
they created
a body suit
connected to his brain
so that he could walk
whoa
like an exoskeleton
yeah
so he was basically
Iron Man
an exoskeleton
and there he was
initiating the soccer games
in Brazil
in Sao Paulo
Brazil
here we can see this here
wow
this is crazy
this is crazy
he kicked the soccer ball
and it was
hooked up
at Johns Hopkins University
Duke University
I'm sorry
and that's a big
very bulky thing
but you could imagine
as technology improves
that would also
it could become
like a thin exoskeleton
that's right
that was one of the ideas
about Neuralink
is that it would be able
to bypass
the human nervous system
and control the muscles
with some other method
right
and so instead of
if you have a severed
spinal cord
it would somehow
or another be able
to control the bottom
half of your body
right
which is amazing
yeah
so this already exists
that we can take people
that have been paralyzed
because of war
disease
accidents
with an injury
to the spinal cord
and just bypass
the spinal cord
totally
and have the brain
connected directly
and also you can get people
that can actually
eventually talk
talk to a computer
of course
and answer the internet
engage in dialogue
even though you're
totally paralyzed
wow
and with quantum computing
now when we're talking
about Neuralink
you're talking about
some sort of a
conventional attachment
is it possible
that quantum computing
could scale down
to the size
where you could be able
to put it
in someone's head
that may be difficult
because the computer
itself is pretty big
but the connection
the connection
of the computer
to the human
could be very tiny
could be as small
as you want
but the computer
itself is huge
so is it comparable
to the computers
they used
in the Apollo mission
which were
this enormous room
and now you have
more of that
on your cell phone
more computing power
on your cell phone
than had
in 1963
in a giant room
filled with computers
yeah
what you have today
in your cell phone
is more powerful
than all of NASA
when they put
a man on the moon
all those computers
that you saw
in those videotapes
your cell phone
has more computer power
than all of them
so is that possible
the quantum computing
could also scale
like that
I think the quantum computer
because of the hardware
necessary to bring it
down to near absolute zero
would simply be huge
you'd be like a chandelier
but
when you're saying
absolute zero
you mean temperature
temperature near absolute zero
right
so zero vibrations
you don't want any
interference with the code
because these are atoms
atoms
the slightest little disturbance
can knock these atoms
out of coherence
so you want these atoms
to vibrate in unison
and that's why
you have to cool it down
to your absolute zero
but
the connection
of the quantum computer
to a human
could be as small
as you want
now when you're saying
vibrations
what about
like what if you're
in a building
and a truck drives by
that's a problem
really
that's one of the problems
that you know
something happens
a block away
yeah you see how
awkward these
whoa
that's the cooling system
all those
all the chandelier
like ornaments
these are
the pipes
the cooling pipes
for the quantum computer
the quantum computer
itself is only
you know
this big
about the size
of a quarter
look how cool that is
that's a cooling system
that's amazing
that's what it takes
to cool it down
at the very bottom
at the very bottom
you see the actual
quantum computer
at the very bottom
that little thing
at the bottom
that's it
so in the future
when we communicate
with the quantum computer
the quantum computer
will be in the cloud
you won't even see it
right
it's just your connection
will connect to
that object in the cloud
so if the internet
is in your contact lens
you blink
and then you're
connected to that
via your contact lens
you never see
the quantum computer
so that little thing
at the bottom
is quantum computer
yeah
at the very bottom
that's where the computation
actually takes place
so does it have to take place
because of it's
subject to vibrations
and any disturbance
does it have to take place
in some insanely
reinforced building
that's right
that's right
so something new
has to be constructed
or they've done this already
oh yeah
they've done it already
but it's something
that you have to be
very careful of
because if a truck goes by
there goes your calculation
right
do you have to have
I would imagine
they would have to have
some sort of measurement devices
that make sure
there's no external
vibration
that's right
now the irony
is Mother Nature
creates quantum computers
at room temperature
photosynthesis
of a leaf
a simple leaf
does a quantum calculation
converting photons
carbon dioxide
into oxygen
that's what we call
you know
the beginning of life
on the earth
with a flower
so Mother Nature
has solved that problem
Mother Nature
has room temperature
superconductor
room temperature
quantum computers
we don't have that yet
but we're working on it
so if Mother Nature
can do it
and we can come up
with quantum computing
and we can figure out
how Mother Nature
is doing it
maybe through the God equation
we could reproduce it
then we could probably
have small quantum computers
right
like I said
a leaf
a leaf is a quantum
quantum device
and to create fertilizer
requires a huge plant
for example
Mother Nature
does it with a simple
legume
the branches
of the roots
of a legume
create the ingredients
for fertilizer
a plant does it
naturally
at room temperature
it takes us
a gigantic
huge chemical plant
to create fertilizer
Mother Nature
does it
with a small
little plant
so Mother Nature
is ahead of us
that's what I'm saying
yeah
have you ever studied
the connection
between fungus
and soil
I think I just
screwed something up
with the microphone
Jamie
my mic just cut out
oh it's back
there it is
I stepped on this cable
I think I disconnected it
have you ever studied
like all the science
that's being done
on the way
plants communicate
with each other
through the soil
and through fungus
and mycelium
it's fascinating stuff
they allocate resources
to plants that need them
more
to trees that need them
more
they seem to have
communal
yeah
they seem to have
some sort of
a shared information network
that we don't
totally understand
maybe you can find
something on it
but it's
I mean
I think relatively
recently understood
and just basically
understood
over the last few decades
but people like
Paul Stamets
who's a mycologist
has been studying
this type of stuff
and it's really amazing
like there's some
sort of intelligence
to it
the way it works
underground networking
the amazing connections
beneath your feet
well maybe evolution
went in the direction
of interconnection
because maybe
the survival value
was higher
if you connected
these things
scroll down
Jamie
right there
so this is what
it's saying
when most of us
think it's fungus
we imagine mushrooms
sprouting out of the ground
these mushrooms
are in fact
the fruit of the fungus
while the majority
of the fungal organism
lives in the soil
interwoven with the tree roots
as a vast network
of mycelium
mycelium
are incredibly tiny threads
of the greater fungal organism
that wraps around
or bore into tree roots
taken together
mycelium composes
what's called
a mycorrhizal network
which connects
individual plants
together
to transfer water
nitrogen
carbon
and other minerals
German forester
Peter Wallen
how do you say that
Wallen
Wallen
dubbed this network
the wood wide web
as it is through
the mycelium
the trees communicate
this is really
really fascinating stuff
because
they're all
like we just think
of soil as something
that the tree
pulls nutrients from
but no
it's all
they're communicating
they're connected
with each other
in the forest
well realize that
when you have a chemical
process involving life
you are in some sense
looking at a quantum computer
it's doing a quantum calculation
it's taking nutrients
from the soil
nutrients from the air
combining it
to create
cellulose
or whatever it's made of
and so we're talking about
something that
we cannot duplicate
without gigantic devices
looking like a chandelier
mother nature
can do it
with a root
yeah
it can do it
with everything
it seems to be
insects
it seems to
there's like a code to it
which is why
your idea
about there being
this God calculation
is so fascinating
it seems like
it just moves
in a very
certain way
and it's all
connected to each other
in some way
that we're
as human beings
just sort of
starting to understand
well there is a theory
that says that the Big Bang
went in a direction
compatible to life
and that other universes
may not be compatible
with life
they may be lifeless
collections of electrons
and neutrinos
for example
but our universe is special
our universe has stable protons
out of which
you could create atoms
out of which
you could create DNA
out of which
you can create people
how many universes
have that property
so string theory
for example
gives you other universes
which are probably
dead universes
universes which have no life
but our universe
has stable protons
stable DNA
stable forms of life
so our universe is rare
so this is called
the
the anthropic principle
the
the feeling
that our life
is not random
our universe is special
our universe is special
in the sense
that it didn't have
to have life
but it does
and life
in a spectacular
array of diversity
so our universe
really is special
but is it special
because we don't know
of any other universes
so
yeah
but the other universes
that we played with
mathematically speaking
are not compatible
with life
stars
stars burn out
too quickly
galaxies
simply fall apart
protons disintegrate
it's very hard
to create a universe
which is stable
so some people think
that our universe
is special
among all the different
kinds of universes
that our universe
is unique
because it's compatible
with stable protons
and DNA
but it's hard
for most people
to even
grasp the concept
of other types
of universes
or other universes
period
or the fact
there may be
an infinite number
of universes
well that's the multiverse
string theory
probably has
an infinite number
of possible universes
we are probably
the only one
that has life
in them
we're not sure
about that of course
but these other universes
are collections
of dead subatomic particles
a mist
a floating mist
of dead subatomic particles
that don't do anything
if the proton
were not stable
then our universe
also would be like that
our universe
would disintegrate
almost instantly
the fact
that our proton
is stable
is quite remarkable
do you believe
that that's unusual
unusual
in fact
maybe unique
there are probably
very few universes
with stable protons
you see
string theory
gives you
many many diverse solutions
so we can actually
look at these
other alternate universes
and we see
that they're not
compatible with life
and why do you think
that
if the proton
is stable here
what would it be
about these other universes
like what qualities
would they possess
where
it wouldn't be stable there
everything would decay
decay down to
electrons and neutrinos
so it would be
a gas
a cloud
of electrons
and neutrinos
which are the lowest
state of matter
you can't get any lower
than an electron
and neutrino
that's the lowest state
so these universes
would basically disintegrate
they would fall apart
into a cloud
of neutrinos
and electrons
our universe
has stable protons
out of which
you can create elements
out of which
you could create DNA
out of which
you can create life
that's a miracle
so it's just because
of these calculations
that you've done
that you've done
where it says
if the universe
had different properties
you would think
that this is rare
very rare
because there's so many
other possibilities
of how the universe could
if stars burnt out
more quickly
for example
because the nuclear force
were stronger
stars would never ignite
if the nuclear force
were weaker
stars would
never form
to begin with
if gravity were too strong
we would have had
a big crunch
and we'd all
die in a gigantic fireball
if gravity were too weak
we'd all freeze to death
because we would have
a big crunch
a big freeze
so all the parameters
of the universe
are tuned
just right
to allow for life
wow
now there's two ways
of looking at
one way
that some physicists
have proposed
is that we are
the crowning achievement
we are the only universe
that's stable
that has life
that has diversity
that creates life
the other possibility
is that there are just
lots of dead universes
and we just won the crap shoot
doesn't that possibility
jive more with the state
of the universe
as we understand it
because we're always looking
for these Goldilocks planets
which are very rare
which may inhabit life
or may have life on it
but we look at our own
solar system
and there's just us
in other words
there could be
a Goldilocks zone
for universes
yes
just like there is for planets
for solar systems
of course
the earth is not too far
from the sun
not too close
but we could be
in the Goldilocks zone
of possible universes
and that's why we're here
today to talk about it
so but there also
could be an infinite number
of universes like ours
and also an infinite number
of universes that are
completely incompatible
for life
that's right
this is what I do
for a living
we work with these
we work in the multiverse
yeah no wonder
why you don't watch YouTube
do you have time
for recreation
do you do stuff
outside of physicists
or stuff
well I like to figure skate
really
yeah
oh in the winter time
you go down to the Central Park
and dance around
I used to skate
at Rockefeller Center
all the time
yeah
yeah
I like to spin
and jump
and
that's great exercise
yeah it's all
Newtonian physics
at work
ah
of course you like it
for that reason
so that's your hobby
yeah that's my hobby
and other than that
you're just
constantly thinking
about these things
yeah but again
it's fun
I mean to me
this is what I wanted to do
when I was 8 years old
when I was 8 years old
I said
this is for me
oh your passion
is very very clear
and it's one of the things
that makes you
such a great science educator
is that you have
such enthusiasm
for these subjects
and they're so interesting
to you
that it becomes
interesting to other people
yeah
that's in a sense
like people like you
are so
well not in a sense
like you're so important
for the discussion
because it ignites
inspiration
the same way
Einstein ignited
inspiration in you
by seeing that photograph
of his desk
like these kind of speeches
that you do
and these conversations
that you have with people
it
for a person like myself
that doesn't study these things
it gives me the chance
to delve into
how your perspective is
and just to look at it
through your mind
right
and for me
it's hard to believe
how a person
could not be thrilled
when they learn
about the big bang
they learn about strength theory
they learn about
parallel universes
and wormholes
for me
it's incredible
that people
some people
are not thrilled
by something like this
do you ever
think about
technology
and
its capabilities
and intelligence
and extrapolate
as far as possible
and think
we are essentially
going to become
something akin to a god
or whatever we become
will become something
akin to a god
if you keep
if we don't
get killed
by a natural disaster
or our own stupidity
and you accelerate time
a thousand
two thousand
five thousand years
ahead of us
what do you anticipate
will be like
I think about that a lot
because
we talked about
type one
type two
type three
by the time
you are a type three
civilization
you have the energy
to manipulate
the Planck energy
the Planck energy
is the ultimate energy
of the universe
of the quantum theory
you take the quantum theory
and relativity
and scale it up
all the way
just let it rip
what is the highest energy
you can attain
and then something new happens
that's called
the Planck energy
it's a quadrillion times
more powerful
than our biggest atom smasher
in Geneva Switzerland
at that point
space becomes unstable
we think of empty space
being stable
of course
how can you do anything
with empty space
right
it just sits there
does nothing
but when you start
to boil space
when you start to boil space
to the Planck temperature
all of a sudden
it becomes unstable
bubbles
begin to form
and these bubbles
are gateways
to other universes
these are baby wormholes
to other universes
we think that
our universe
was one of these
most of these universes
like boiling water
pop out of existence
and they pop back in
they never get anywhere
but one of these bubbles
kept on going
and that became
our universe
our universe
was created
because empty space
was heated
to the Planck energy
and at that point
space itself
began to boil
and the boiling of space
created the universe
that's where the universe
itself
came from
is it possible
that human beings
or whatever
we're going to become
could eventually
someday
attain the type
of power
that's right
we've looked at that
in fact
there are people
friends of mine
at MIT
who have written papers
about what it would take
to become a god
we realized
that if you could attain
the Planck energy
in a box
let's say
somehow
a bubble would form
a gateway
to another universe
it would expand
it would expand rapidly
and you have to be
very careful
if it expands too rapidly
it has a force of
I think a 10 kiloton
atomic bomb
so you have to be
out of the way
when this thing explodes
but then it simply
peels off
and creates another universe
and then it disappears
like a balloon
like a piece of a balloon
that pinches off
if you're on the first part
of the balloon
you never see
the second part
of the balloon
the second part
of the balloon
has peeled off
to create a baby universe
wow
okay
so these are called
baby universes
and who's written
about these things
Stephen Hawking
Stephen Hawking
wrote about baby universes
that if you could
boil space
heat space up
to the Planck energy
space becomes unstable
bubbles form
and these bubbles
one of these bubbles
may just keep on expanding
to create another universe
we wouldn't have access
to this universe
no it would peel off
just like a balloon
the second part
of the balloon
peels off
from the first part
and the two separate
the two separate
the only way
to get reconnected
is through a wormhole
but that of course
is a whole other story
but that would be
a possibility
of recreating
a link between
our universe
and another universe
so we could
potentially create
one of these
mini universes
that's right
and this mini universe
would exist
in a completely
different place
that's right
so we've done
the calculation
and as I said
it could be
a little bit dangerous
you have to make sure
that the explosion
doesn't kill you
in the process
but yeah
this is what it would
take to create
a baby universe
we call this
the inflationary theory
because the other balloon
inflated rapidly
so this is part
of what is called
the inflationary universe
and believe it or not
this is the dominant
theory of Genesis
where did Genesis
come from
we think it came
from this balloon
that empty space
boiled
empty space
then created a pocket
that then expanded
and then peeled off
from our universe
this is called
the inflationary universe
theory
which is the dominant
theory in quantum
cosmology
have you ever
considered the possibility
that that is
ultimately how the universe
gets created
in the first place
that intelligent life forms
reach this capability
well we're not sure
about the intelligent
life form
but we think that
this is how our universe
got created
that our universe
was a bubble
floating with other bubbles
these other bubbles
went back into the vacuum
our bubble just kept on going
and became our universe
but what I'm saying is
imagine if that process
was initiated
by a super intelligent
life form
always
sort of like how a bee
makes a beehive
what if humans
make the universe
or whatever we become
makes the universe
that's right
we've done the calculation
actually
of what it would take
for a human
to then create
something like this
step one is
you have to have power
on the scale
of the Planck energy
and the Planck energy
is the biggest number
that you can possibly imagine
but it is the number
at which space
becomes unstable
and that's the point
at which this bubble
then starts to expand
so you've played around
with these ideas
that's right
they're published
they're published
in Physical Review magazine
this idea that
we'll stay static
that we are what we are
right now
and that's just what humans are
and that's just how it is
that seems like that's
whatever we are right now
it seems like this is real temporary
and I think we're probably
the last of our species
to experience life
not being
some sort of a cyborg
possible
I mean given the fact
that throughout history
we've played with our appearance
we've played with our bodies
makeup
and tattoos
perfumes
we've tried to alter
ourselves constantly
because we want to increase
our reproductive value
so we get a better maid
a better wife
a better husband
so we try to build up
our muscles
and wear makeup
and so on and so forth
we've done this forever
the next step
is to alter
not just our tattoos
but to actually alter
who we are
that's the next step
and that's coming I think
because we're going to want
to enhance ourselves
yeah
well what I worry
is that one day
we're going to realize
that a lot of our problems
stem from being human
a lot of our problems
stem from our biological needs
and if you look at
these iconic images
of aliens
they're always genderless
like these weird
spindly things
that have no use
for their muscles
other than to just
move them around
that's what I really worry about
I really worry that
we're going to realize
like the only way
to really achieve
this type 2
type 3 civilization
is we have to stop
being human
I hope not
but doesn't it seem like
what we have
and what we love
about people
what we love about people
emotions
and creativity
and love
and romance
and all those great things
and fun and excitement
those are all
just biological stuff
like you
really kind of gets
in the way of progress
in some ways
but what's wrong
with that
what's wrong
with being biological
what's wrong
with feeling joy
and emotions
nothing but it can
it can conflict you
and it can get in the way
of the greater work
if you're working on
plunk energy
and you're trying to create
little mini universes
you have no time
to be horny
you have no time
to be sad
you have no
if all that can be
eliminated
if we have all the problems
that people have today
whether it's depression
or anxiety
and if all that
can be eliminated
forever
we never have to worry
about negative emotions
anymore
you can be productive
you can interact
with people
telepathically
but I think you'd also
be sterile too
probably
if there's no emotion
to excite you
to want to do something
to want to do something great
to do something
that makes a difference
that takes a lot of energy
yes
takes a lot of
mental power
takes a lot of emotional
commitment
and that's what keeps
the world going
there's always somebody
out there
that wants to be better
to create a better world
to open up new pathways
and that requires
a commitment
a commitment
of energy
on that person's
life
and that's not easy
but isn't that just
a drive
that's inherent
to human beings
that causes us
to seek
technological innovation
we're always pushing
the boundaries
of everything
we're always trying
to get better
at everything
whatever we do
but isn't that
like the ultimate expression
of that
is technological innovation
and the ultimate
technological innovation
would probably
bypass
all of our
biological shortcomings
why
but sometimes
our biological shortcomings
is the reason
why we like to live
sure
but if you have
like a jealous deity
that seems silly
you know
if you have a god
that gets horny
all the time
and is jealous
like a Greek god
yeah
exactly
or is greedy
or is
you know
well
I would hope
that we keep
our basic
foundational
structure
of wants
and needs
intact
but the rough edges
I would hope
that the rough edges
could be ironed out
collectively
and I think
in a democracy
that's one way
to iron out
the deficiencies
within human behavior
human behavior
is a byproduct
of evolution
evolution
was survival
of the fittest
so it meant
that we had
to become
at some point
cruel
to other people
so that's part
of our history
but it didn't have
to be that way
when we have technology
with the coming
of technology
there's no reason
to have to go to war
to have to kill people
and to dominate
other people
there's no purpose
of that
unless you do it
to control the technology
unless you're the person
that came up
with the quantum computer
first
and you realize
the only way
I'm going to be able
to dominate
is if I
enslave these people
now
I've got to move
on it now
well that's a problem
I mean there is a race
to create the quantum computer
we are in a race
the Chinese
IBM
Microsoft
they're all in the game
they've all thrown the dice
and they say
this is the way to go
and so
there's going to be competition
I'm sure
and there's going to be
you know
blood on the floor
when it comes down
to marketing these things
and beating out
the competition
and giving the best price
quantum computer
to the average consumer
yeah there's going to be
competition involved
I think socially
the internet has brought
about great change
and it's changed
the way humans
interact with each other
we already talked about
how we're sharing culture
do you think
that something
like quantum computing
could also have
maybe
like a secondary
sort of a result
where
it elevates
human consciousness
as well
because it's
it's computational power
and it's ability
to change reality
as we know it
is so extreme
that all of our
petty nonsense
that we have
with various civilizations
warring against each other
and all that stuff
will seem
absolutely ridiculous
given the ability
that we now have
technologically
and that we won't be
existing in this feast
or famine world
well you know
the world we live in
is digital
the world of the future
will be quantum
and neural
that is
we're going to have
a combination
of quantum computers
and neural computers
and
but digital computers
will be left in the dust
we're not going to
compute on zeros
and ones
zeros and ones
anymore
we're going to
compute on neurons
and we're going to
compute on quantum atoms
and at that point
they may merge
at that point
the brain may be
connected to a quantum
computer
enhancing our ability
to do calculations
for example
and do you think
that could have
a secondary effect
on civilization
like I think
I do think
as many problems
as we have
with the internet
I think
it's changed
the world
for the better
I really do
it's certainly
changed our
understanding of things
our access to information
our ability to discern
what is and isn't
going on in the world
if something
along the lines
of quantum computing
that's
I mean
what
what kind of calculation
like how much
more powerful
is it
than the greatest
computer we have
currently
a few million times
like imagine that
I mean
and in application
if that gets used
by people
that could
I mean
that could be
the thing
that gets us
out of this
theoretically
yeah we're talking
about virtual
chemistry
virtual biology
things in the
memory of a computer
that we cannot
model with
zeros and ones
zeros and ones
with zeros and ones
you cannot model
a disease
for example
no way
with quantum computers
that's why we build them
precisely so that
we can model
molecules
of germs
and understand
how they operate
so yeah
we're talking about
a whole new era
now however
I think the main
impact of the internet
has been to enforce
democracy
that it is a democratic
force
because people can be
educated
no matter how poor
no matter where they are
they can be empowered
power derives from knowledge
yeah
and that's what the internet
is all about
now of course
there's a downside to it
but in the main
I think it's positive
and I think quantum computers
will accelerate
that whole process
I think so too
and I wonder
if it will lead us
to a better world
if it will lead us
to a better understanding
of each other
much better understanding
of how not
to destroy the world
in terms of
pollute the ocean
and solutions
for cleaning up
the plastic
and solutions
for whatever issues
we might have
with power generation
when we can
boil that down
with a quantum computer
and figure out
much more efficient
cleaner ways
to do things
all the problems
that we have
in modern society
with poverty
with disenfranchised
communities
and crime
all those things
seem like
they could be solved
well in principle
yes
that's the hope
in principle
that's the best
case scenario
this will give
empowerment
to the powerless
this will create
more goods
and services
for humanity
to raise the level
of standard of living
of even the poorest nations
and to be able
to understand
the nature of disease
so that we can live
longer and more
fruitful lives
and in some sense
become immortal
or at least
near immortality
by being able
to conquer
incurable diseases
this is all
within the possibilities
of quantum computers
but for me
one of the biggest impacts
is the dissemination
of knowledge
to give empowerment
to the powerless
so that we can raise
the standard of living
of the entire human race
what is the worst case scenario
worst case scenario
is that dictatorships
will try to
get this technology
to break other people's codes
to shatter
the connections
that exist
between different nations
and cultures
to increase divisions
by you know
chat bots
they can create nonsense
they can create
all sorts of propaganda
because they just
rearrange what already exists
a dictator
could then write
all sorts of different
kinds of racist
and sexist nonsense
and have it spread
throughout the internet
very rapidly
so that's the problem
so it's really important
as to who gets it first
that's right
and laws have to be passed
so that we rein in
some of these things
democracy arises
with incorrect
with conflict
with incorrect ideas
that's where correct ideas
come from
from interplay
with incorrect ideas
but that could be ruined
if people try to seize
control of chat bots
and the internet
to flood the internet
with nonsense
who do you think
is going to win this?
are you close to this?
are you following?
or do we even know
what these other countries
right now IBM
has the lead
but it's like a horse race
the gate has opened
all the horses
are lined up
and now they're taking off
the Chinese are leading
in optical quantum computers
using light beams
to compute
and IBM is leading
in terms of using
electrical circuits
as the basis
of quantum computers
but it changes
you know
every few months
there are different advances
being made
all the time
this is moving
exponentially fast
and how do we know
where China's at?
do we have an accurate
understanding
of their ability?
well they publish
their results
and we can duplicate
some of what they do
they're taking
a different tact
they're taking
the tact of using
light beams
calculating on light beams
rather than electricity
we're using electricity
and there's some advantages
and disadvantages
of both approaches
that's fascinating
so we could come up
with potentially
two parallel solutions
and maybe even more
other groups
anything quantum mechanical
could in principle
be used to build
a quantum computer
and anything you see
around you
plants, animals
we all are byproducts
of the quantum principle
and so there are many ways
of building a quantum computer
but those are the leading ones
using electrical circuits
and using light beams
how exciting this must be
for you
to have been that 17 year old boy
creating that particle accelerator
in your basement
and now being at the verge
of what is probably
one of the biggest changes
or the biggest change
the human race
has ever experienced
and you're alive to witness it
that's right
this
if I were to choose
any decade
or phase of history
to be born in
this would be it
because we're talking
about the fact
that you know
as children
it was black and white TV
and vacuum tubes
that exploded
and it was a lot
of nonsense back then
now we're putting
people on the moon
regularly
every year
we're going to send
people to the moon
and we're talking
about unlocking
the secrets
of life itself
through DNA
so this is a great time
to be alive
it's a very amazing
time for me
and how old
I'm 55
how old are you
I just turned 76
wow you look great
you really do
you look great
for 76
so you're 21 years
older than me
so you were alive
long before the internet
and you grew up
before the internet
I was about 27 years old
the first time
I got on the internet
and I'm so lucky
I feel so lucky
to have grown up
without it
and to realize
because I'm seeing
it happen
what an immense
change it is
whereas my children
are growing up
having always been
on the internet
it's just normal
to them
to communicate
through cell phones
to be able to get
on social media
that is a normal
part of life
for everyone today
but I and you
can remember
and we can really
truly appreciate
I think
how great a change
this is
yeah this is one
of the greatest
changes in human history
if you were to choose
an era of time
to be born
this would be it
do you ever put
much thought
into simulation theory
you mean like
the matrix
well the idea
that one day
there will be
whether it's
through quantum computing
or some other
unknown
unforeseen technology
that creates
a reality
an artificial reality
that's indiscernible
from this reality
from the physical reality
that we believe
we currently experience
and if that's true
how do we know
we're not in it already
well to have
a perfect replication
of reality
is impossible
take a look
at the molecules
in this room
how many molecules
are there
about maybe
10 to the 26th power
one with 26 zeros
after it
and to model
that many atoms
with a digital computer
would be impossible
so in other words
the smallest object
that can model
this room
is the room itself
the smallest computer
that can model air
is the computer itself
there's no
there's nothing smaller
than this room
that can model itself
now
once you go to
quantum computers
it gets worse
because the quantum computer
computes in parallel universes
do not just one universe
but many universes
simultaneously
and so
a quantum computer
could model
some of the room
some of the atoms
in this room
but not all of them
now that means
a perfect representation
of reality
is impossible
but an approximate
simulation
may be possible
but a perfect
simulation
is impossible
but if we're talking
about technology
as we currently
understand it today
in comparison
to technology
as they had available
to them
a thousand years ago
what we can do now
is insane
and if you're talking
about quantum computing
which is almost
available today
and then you look
a thousand years
from now
couldn't you
potentially imagine
there could be
a world
where there's
technology sufficient
to do what we're
talking about
to create a version
of reality
well if you saw
the movie
we're all in pods
and we're all connected
to a computer
that simulates
the matrix
as long as you're
simulating a piece
of the matrix
not the whole thing
but as you walk
from place to place
the computer
reassembles
a replication
of that place
that may be possible
but not
the whole earth
with the atmosphere
the weather
and so on
but if you walk
from place to place
if that little pocket
if that little pocket
of atoms
is simulated
then yeah
that may be possible
but what about
in the future
when if you extrapolate
like
you know
you're not going to use
what is it
Moore's law
Moore's law
right
that calculates
how much greater
technology
is every year
doubles every 18 months
what if we're
when you're talking
about quantum computing
what if they use that
to come up with something
even superior to that
a thousand years from now
could you potentially
see a future
where some form of life
could create a universe
well
but not on atoms
maybe subatomic particles
a universe of subatomic particles
yeah
but most subatomic particles
are unstable
the electron is stable
the proton is unstable
but if you can find a way
to stabilize some of them
then it may be possible
to increase
the calculational ability
and then create
a super quantum computer
but I'm speculating
at that point
how much time
do you spend
thinking about
do you have to go soon
do you have a flight
yeah
yeah
when do you have to leave
6.30 or so
oh you're fine
it's not even 3 o'clock yet
oh I'm sorry
I'm sorry
I'm looking at New York time
oh
sorry about that
no worries
no worries
okay yeah
we're pretty close
to the usual too
where was I
what was I saying
oh I was saying
that if you're looking
at the calculations
that we can make right now
and just the amazing
progress we've made
it seems like
if you keep going
you're going to
it doesn't seem like
it's ever going to stop
right
so the potential
for power
the potential
for having an understanding
and the ability
to change
and manipulate
the universe itself
that seems like
it's going to
eventually be on the table
yeah I've thought
about that
I mean the question
is at what point
does it stop
we thought it stopped
at the transistor
but now
oh that's funny
yeah right
but now we have
a billion of them
on a chip
the size of your fingernail
right
a billion of them
so nope
that wasn't a limit
but now we're reaching
the atomic limit
so why not
compute on atoms
but then what's
smaller than an atom
what's smaller than an atom
is a nucleus
the nucleus is smaller
than an atom
nucleus is 10 to the minus
13 centimeters
the atom is about
10 to the minus
8 centimeters
so the nucleus
is a lot smaller
so these are nuclear
these are nuclear
devices that we're
computing on
that may be possible
so an advanced
civilization may have
a not an atomic
computer
but a nuclear computer
and you have to be
careful because of
course
you're dealing
with nuclear fire
at that point
there's a lot of
energy packed
in that nucleus
as you know
from looking at
Hiroshima
and Nagasaki
if I was an alien
I was going to
come down
and talk to somebody
you'd probably
be the first guy
I'd talk to
you'd be one of them
mm-hmm
I
how much time
do you spend
wondering
whether or not
these things
that they keep
seeing in the sky
these things
the Pentagon reports
on and all these
people are studying
how much time
do you spend
thinking about that
well I think
about it
because let's
say there's
a small chance
a very very small
chance that they
are extraterrestrial
that could change
world history
that could change
everything
everything we know
about the universe
could be altered
instantly
if we have
some solid proof
and that's why
I tell people
that if you've ever
been kidnapped
by a flying saucer
for God's sake
steal something
steal something
there's no law
against stealing
from an extraterrestrial
civilization
no law
whatsoever
and you know
you'll have
bragging rights
and that'll settle
the debate
right there
an alien chip
an alien hammer
an alien pencil
that would just
end the debate
right there
well supposedly
depending on
whose story
you hear
supposedly the government
is in possession
of things
along those lines
well yes or no
I mean
I believe in data
data that leads
to a definitive
yes or no
and here we have
no data
about secret documents
held by the military
or secret objects
yeah maybe
maybe not
but the proof
is in the pudding
we have to see it
we have to analyze it
before then
it's just hearsay
and speculation
could you understand
though how a government
if they were
in possession
of something like that
would want to keep it secret
because the technology
is so superior
to anything that we have
just like how we're
in this sort of
quantum computer race
with China
and they have a different
method than we do
what if they have
a different method
of back engineering
these things
well that's conceivable
it's a theory
but there's no hard
evidence either way
some people say
that the fact
that we have
the microchip
and the rocket ship
means that we stole
that technology
from the aliens
well maybe
but you realize
that if you're a scientist
and you've been
following these developments
you know all the dead ends
you know all the mistakes
that were made
yeah
and then you realize
it was a miracle
that we came up
with these things
it wasn't given to us
it was a byproduct
of trial and error
and whole careers
that went into
creating the microchip
and the wonders
of modern technology
that we see today
and there's a vast paper trail
yeah
there's a huge paper trail
right
so I'm not saying
that they're wrong
I'm just saying
it's not provable
what about the idea
that human beings
that human beings
are a product
of accelerated evolution
that's the most fascinating
UFO theory
accelerated evolution
from what to what
that we are the product
of the mixing
of genes
of some sort of an alien race
and lower primates
well it's always great
to think that we're
somehow noble
and somehow beyond
the other animals
and that we're great
but you know
the proof is in the pudding
if there's no
looking at our DNA
we realize that
the DNA difference
between us
and a chimpanzee
was A
the expansion
of the brain
B
the dexterity
of the fingers
and the vocal cords
so these are
the three things
that really stand out
when you look at
chimp genes
and then human genes
and then you realize
that well that's why
we became intelligent
we can vocalize
we can share knowledge
from generation
to generation
we have a posable thumb
with fingers
much more delicate
than the fingers
of a monkey
and we have eyes
eyes that are stereo
so that we can judge
distance to the prey
so looking at it
genetically
we realize that
only three clusters
of genes
created us
so it's hard to believe
that mating with an alien
could have done that
well I'm not saying mating
I think what the idea is
and obviously
these are not credible ideas
this is just fantastic
conspiracy theories
and it's also
there's a lot of really
wild stuff
if you read
like Zachariah Sitchin's
work
he was a scholar
in ancient languages
that translated
the Sumerian text
and he believed
that the Sumerian text
was all telling
the story
about how humans
were a product
of accelerated evolution
well it's possible
but again it requires
one more step
of substantiation
by looking at the internet
you see that
there's a continuous line
that goes from us
to the chimpanzees
to the primates
and that a few genes
changed here
a few genes here
a few genes there
and bingo
you get a human being
there's also some puzzles though
like the doubling
of the human brain size
over a period
of two million years
yeah
that's a big puzzle
right
but apparently
just a small cluster
of genes
was responsible for that
because that's just
brain size
yeah
so to increase
the cranial size
it only took
one or two genes
to do that
now how the genes
then create the brain
of course
we still have yet
to work out
but as far as
the size of the brain
it only took a few genes
to expand the size
of the brain
what reason
would the Neanderthal
have a larger brain
than us
well a larger brain
does not necessarily
mean intelligence
right
because there are animals
which have bigger brains
than us
I think the porpoise
for example
has a very large brain
so size
is not everything
when it comes to
intelligence
I think what's more important
is the ability
to see the future
the ability to imagine
alternate worlds
that don't exist
that's what the
prefrontal cortex does
and that's what separates
us from the animals
animals do not have
a time machine
we have a time machine
in the front of our head
is it possible
that that's just
intelligence
as we're measuring it
in our ability
to manipulate our environment
and that maybe
the intelligence
that the dolphins
experience
because they do
have a cerebral cortex
that's 40% larger
than a human being
that maybe
what they're experiencing
is a different
kind of intelligence
maybe a communal
communal intelligence
maybe some sort
of shared telepathy
or something
that allows them
to communicate
in a way
that we're not capable
of
a different kind
of intelligence
right
but you know
my attitude
is that
what does intelligence
do
intelligence allows
us to create
a model
a model
of where we are
with regards
to the environment
other animals
danger
and so on
and so forth
and then the ability
to see the future
that to me
is intelligence
to understand
what you
what you're in
and then extrapolate
it into the future
that takes a lot
of brain power
animals can't do that
to create imaginary worlds
that don't exist
and then on an MRI scan
the people
scientists ask the question
if the brain sees the future
but the future doesn't exist
then how can a brain scan
show you the future
because it doesn't exist yet
when you brain scan
somebody thinking
about the future
they think about the past
they rework all the things
of the past
and they make a few changes
in the past
that's how they extrapolate
into the future
that's how we did it
animals don't do that
animals simply go by instinct
but what we do
is we take the past
modify the past
and then let it flow
into the future
well that's what's so fascinating
about giant leaps
in technology
is that they bypass
our imagination
and create
completely new possibilities
that we could have
never even dreamed
we were capable of
like what we're experiencing
right now
and if you go to Star Trek
they had to go
Kirk out over
they were basically
using walkie-talkies
right
they had never even
figured out cell phones yet
right
but what we're doing now
is almost inconceivable
and the future
when these things
do come to us
I mean
what are we looking at
I mean
what are we looking at
inside of our lifetime
right
well my attitude is
the smallest unit
of history
is the decade
and if you look at history
decade by decade
then you see the enormous progress
that we've made
but if you look at the history
year by year
it's chaotic
things go up
things go down
setbacks take place
and so on and so forth
but when you look at things
decade by decade
then you see that there is
a progression
there is a path
and the path is toward democracy
the path is toward empowerment
the path is toward creating
a middle class
these are the paths
that you can see
decade by decade
that you cannot see
year by year
and I think that is
a byproduct of technology
technology has made
a middle class possible
for example
yeah it really has
and technology is what
many people think
can raise up
some of the more
impoverished communities
and that part of the problem
is that they don't have
access to power
that they don't have access
to all the innovations
that we have
that make life safer
water cleaner
make it easier to live
and exist
and have more peace
and time
to develop new things
like we do here
yeah and I think
quantum computers
I think will accelerate
that whole process
because that's the name
of the game
technology just not
for technology's sake
just not to make profits
for the companies
of course that's also
one of the motivating factors
but to enrich the human race
to educate people
to empower people
and I think
this is what technology does
now AI of course
will take away jobs too
but it creates jobs
just as well
for example
the blacksmith
we don't have blacksmiths anymore
but we don't cry about it
because these blacksmiths
became automobile workers
and so new jobs opened up
and the same thing with AI
people point to the fact
that AI is displacing
some workers
especially at the bottom
which is true
but it's also creating new jobs
jobs that no one even conceived of before
and so it's a balance
between job destruction
and job creation
and that's the main effect
that AI has had on society
it's a beautiful time
to be alive sir
I'm really happy
that you're out there
talking about these things
because it just
it sparks the imagination
in such an incredible way
and because of you
and because of your work
you really get to understand
like what the real parameters
we're working with here
and what we're really talking about
what's possible
well I hope so
that's one of the reasons
why I do what I do
some people say
why do you do this
I mean you're great at it
you should keep doing it forever
do you do things independently
do you have a podcast of your own
I'm on radio
so
oh okay
yeah
which station are you on
gee I forgot
go to my website
that's hilarious
I do so many things
I can't keep track
but just go to my website
mkaku.org
mkaku.org
you do really do
do a lot of things
like how do you maintain
your energy levels
well like I said
I can't understand
how some people
are not energized by this
I mean some people play golf
some people do all sorts of
sports and things
this is what I do
yeah
because it energizes you
you know after a game of golf
people tell me
that they feel renewed
they feel robust
this is what I feel
when you talk to people
because you're sharing
your own excitement
you're trying to convey
the excitement that you feel
to other people
well you do a fantastic job at it
you really do
well I try
it's always a pleasure
to have you here
so tell everybody about your book
one more time
yeah the book is called
Quantum Supremacy
now what is that
quantum supremacy
is a time when
quantum computers
exceeded
the power
of a supercomputer
on certain very specified problems
we passed that point
we now have quantum computers
that are millions of times faster
than a digital computer
on certain select questions
the next step
is to make a general purpose
quantum computer
that works for any problem
not just specific problems
and that may take
that may take maybe another decade or so
but again the stakes are enormous
we're talking about
the world economy
which nation is going to dominate
the world economy
what technologies will thrust
the world's productive abilities
that's quantum computers
now when this does get implemented
what private companies
are creating this
are they working in conjunction
with the government
like how does
how does all that get controlled
well right now
it's a free for all
it's a horse race
it's a free for all
the horses are out of the gate
basically it's a few key players
IBM
Honeywell
Microsoft
the big boys
they're all jumping in the game
investing billions of dollars
to create their version
of the future
and the Chinese are right there
with their parallel version
using optical means
rather than using electrical means
to do calculations
and they know the price
that the price is not there yet
because of course
they're not operational
for general purpose problems
but they know potentially
what the price is
and that's to be able
to dominate the world economy
now what's the worst case scenario
if one of these
American corporations
let's just say Microsoft
let's say if Microsoft
wins the race
and they develop
some sort of functional
quantum computer
that just blows everything else
out of the water
they essentially become
like a superpower
that's right
remember when IBM
dominated everything
and then Microsoft
comes along
bunch of teenagers
come along
everyone thought
these are a bunch of teenagers
what can they do right
and then these teenagers
took over the world
so we're talking about
something on that scale
that's a company
that can make a breakthrough
to make a workable
general purpose
quantum computer
who wouldn't want to buy one
I mean you're talking about
a runaway bestseller
at that point
yeah well
also
the power
that's attached to that
is so enormous
that anyone wielding it
has unprecedented
power
yeah
remember the PC
before
before Bill Gates
and company
yeah
the PC was a toy
a toy in museums
basically
I mean
it was something
that you showed your friends
but you couldn't do anything
with it
right
and then comes Microsoft
we showed
no no no
we can do things
you can do your income tax
you can do spreadsheets
you can do this
you can do this
and then it just took off
yeah
so we're at that stage now
where the computer
is still not ready
to be used
for general purpose calculations
but when it does happen
we're talking about
virtual chemistry
virtual biology
everyone's going to want
to jump in the game
do you think that preemptively
some laws should be put in place
to sort of regulate this
well I think
some laws may have to
because of course
this is potentially
earth shaking
yeah
the CIA of course
is well aware
of the potential
they've
the government
has done seminars
on what to do
when quantum computers
become commonplace
and they're already
making recommendations
and so for the post
silicon
no
the post quantum era
they're making
recommendations
to how to prepare
for the post quantum era
when quantum computers
can break
any known digital code
what does the world
look like
if there's no secrets
what does the world
look like
if there's no
top secret information
there's no code
cannot be cracked
instantaneously
yeah that's a good question
I mean some people say
what happens
if all the codes
are broken
I mean
sometimes this happened
in the past
we're still here
it wasn't doomsday
but it does affect
the progress
for war
during World War II
we broke the German code
it was a computer
that broke the German code
and we knew exactly
what the Germans
were going to do
before war actually
broke out
in certain areas
and that saved
thousands of lives
and so that was
a situation
where that did
make a difference
but in the main
you know
nations steal secrets
from other nations
all the time
and we're still here
for now
for now
right
if we don't
blow ourselves up
but it could be
commonplace
with quantum computers
stealing from nations
could be commonplace
now there are ways
to thwart
a quantum computer
there are ways
to get around it
one way is to have
a dual system
two systems
of the internet
one system
based on electricity
that all of us use
that are subject
to hacking
and the other layer
based strictly
on laser beams
a laser internet
that would be a way
such that anyone
who taps into it
illegally
would immediately
alert people
people would shut down
that part of the internet
immediately
so that's a possibility
that people have talked
about
a dual internet
one internet
for governments
for big corporations
and banks
they would pay
premium price
to have
an invulnerable internet
an internet
by the laws of physics
can never be broken
and everybody else
would use
the ordinary internet
wouldn't that bother you though
like I don't want
corporations
to have unlimited
computational power
they're paying for it
I mean
what can I say
right
right
but the power
that comes along
with something
like that too
like when you said
the laws
like well
who's writing
these laws
and who these laws
benefit
well laws
will have to be passed
just like with chatbots
laws
laws are going to have to be passed
just like freedom of speech
is great
but you cannot say fire
in a crowded theater
right
so laws will have to be passed
to regulate chatbots
and laws may have to be passed
to regulate quantum computers
as well
does it bother you
that these laws
that will have to get passed
will get passed
by people
that probably don't
even have a comprehensive
understanding
of what's possible
yeah that's possible
that's always the nightmare
is the fact that
ultimately politicians
will have to
carry out people's will
right
it's not going to be guys
like you
passing these laws
no it'll be people
that have to
you know
get votes
to get reelected
yes
and God knows
what kinds of issues
they have to harp on
in order to get reelected
right
so that's a danger
that the politicians
may mess things up
well I can only hope
they bring in you
to have a conversation
with them about it
before they do
something stupid
well let's hope
the scientific community
has a say
you know
we want to see it
at the table
we're not going
to make the decisions
but we'd like to
influence the decisions
well that would be
the best way to do it
but even
do you think
that even the scientists
can or the physicists
can have a real
understanding
of what is to come
it's just educated
guessing right
it's hard to say
when the transistor
was invented
people thought
maybe it would be used
to signal ships at sea
yeah
they didn't know
what the transistor
was used for
now we realize
it changed society
human society
changed because
of the transistor
but we didn't
know it at that time
well
listen
again
it's always a pleasure
to have you here
you're a national treasure
I really believe that
well thank you
you're such a great
communicator with this stuff
and it's so exciting
and I'm going to listen
to this back and forth
and try to figure out
most of the stuff
you said
quantum supremacy
how the quantum
computer revolution
will change everything
and it is available now
did you do the audio book
no we had somebody
else do it
why didn't you do it
I want to hear you
it would take four days
locked up in a room
non-stop
I get it
to read a book
of that size
you're busy
I understand
well I'll try to listen
to it in your voice
thank you sir
I really appreciate you
always
my pleasure
great honor
thank you
my honor
bye everybody
bye bye bye
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