Joe Rogan | The Link Between Religion and Psychedelics

Have you tried the new ones like Moxie and TX6 or something? What, new weed? No, there's new types of like psychedelics. Oh, I don't- You're over that shit? I don't need that. The stuff that's real is good enough. These people want to try out something other than mushrooms? Like, what are you looking for? Your acid's not strong enough for you? I don't think it- there's one that you could turn off. Oh, you turn it off? Yeah. Like with a switch? Like a nap? No, like you know, like if you're drunk, you can kind of make yourself sober if you need to. So this is a psychedelic that you can switch off. Oh, really? What's it called? Amoxy? This is Moxie. It's 5-M-E-O-M-I-P-T. What is it called? It's called- There's Moxie and then 2-C-B is the other one. I've heard of 2-C-B from the Kanye song. Oh, is that from the Kanye song? An analog of the more popular drug 5-M-E-O-D-I-P-T. Foxy Mox. Foxy-Mithoxie. Is it great? It's got an old timey name. I've never heard of it. Interesting. Foxy-Mithoxie is a great name. Hmm. So it's like, I guess, hipster mushrooms. You probably haven't heard of it. Well, they're always coming up with new things to avoid certain drug tests where they just alter a chemical slightly. That's where 5-M-E-O-D-M-T was not classified as one of the banned psychedelics in the 1970 sweeping psychedelic act and dimethyltryptamine was labeled. 5-M-E-O is DMT with an oxygen molecule attached to it, which eliminates some- I don't know exactly how it works, but the visuals are very different. It looks very different. It feels very different. It's way more potent and it was legal forever. Like you could order it in the year 2000s. We would get it from a fucking chemical company where you ordered over the internet and they would send you like an aspirin bottle of this shit. And you could literally put the entire city on the moon with that little aspirin bottle. Oh my God, that's amazing. It was so potent. And it's this white pure powder that is like straight from this laboratory. Pharmaceutical grade. Pharmaceutical grade, not for human consumption. 5-Methoxydimethyltryptamine. And we took it and it just puts you in the center of the fucking universe. You feel like you're a part of every cell and every atom and every neutron, everything. You're a part of everything. You're in the soup of it all. There's no detachment between you and things. Yeah, yeah. Everything just whoa. You disappear for like 15 minutes. You're sure you're dead. You're absolutely 100% sure you're dead. And it probably is what happens when you die. And then you come out of it. You're like, what in the fuck? Like I just got that from a company. I just ordered that with a Visa card. Like it's crazy. This is pre-Paypal. This was, you would be able to just buy this stuff. Like there was a host of these different things. Like do you remember Salvia? Oh, I was just talking about today. Is that still legal or not? I don't know. It's a good question because it's kind of falling out of favor. It's not something that people talk about a lot. But when people found out that you could just get Salvia from a head shop. Yeah. Head shops are supposed to be, you can buy bongs, you can buy velvet posters, but there's nothing there that can get you fucked up. But then they started selling Salvia because it was somehow under the legal. And it is one of the most mind-blowing psychedelics known to man. For 10 minutes, yeah. It's fucking unbelievably powerful. Ari Shafir did some on a podcast and he lived an alternative life for three months. He had a family. He had jobs. He had friends. And then all of a sudden, he came back to reality. And he was like, what the fuck? In an alternate reality, Ari Shafir has friends. Yes, he has friends in real life. I'm one of his friends. He had different friends that I didn't even know. He just went into this place and lived another life. I think he was under the ocean too. Yeah, there he is right there. Oh, wow. So he's gone and he was getting red band, of course, filmed it. And so he was, and he got very violent when he woke up too. Oh, like violent, violent? Yeah, like get the fuck away from me. Everybody was fucking with him. Because it's disorienting. Yeah, he's confused. Because you're physically paralyzed. Yeah. So he was, he's like, get off me, get off me. Sam Tripoli's got his sunglasses on. It was chaos. Anyway, he came out of it and he said that while he was out for 10 minutes, he lived like three months in a different world. Jesus Christ. And then you have to wonder if that's the real one and this is the fake one. Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong. That's what apparently when you would have the Catholic priest going down the aisle, waving, that would either be sage, which is, I think, derivative of salvia divinorum. I think not a derivative. A cousin, maybe a close relative. I think sage and salvia divinorum are extremely close. In terms of like the genus. Genus? Genus, yeah. What's the genus for sage? I think it's real close. I think it's one of those things where they think that maybe people were burning that, but they were probably also most definitely burning cannabis. And so they were wafting through the aisles with cannabis smoke, getting everybody secondhand high. Huh? Yeah. And that's one of the- He's going to have that experience, yeah. Yeah, to take them into this fucking Catholic journey. You know, the guys wearing a robe, just fucking these stained glass windows everywhere. Like, holy shit. And look at the epic structure. Like, you're looking at these gigantic, beautiful artworks that they're calling buildings. Sage or salvia. Okay. All sages are salvia. Wow. Over time though, the term sage has been closely aligned with cooking or medicinal use, and the term salvia has been given to more ornamental members of the genus. Nevertheless, salvia is the Latin name or genus given to all these plants. Yeah. So sage is salvia. So salvia divinorum, this incredibly potent psychedelic, is common sage. Wow. Or close enough, or basic for all its purposes. Yeah. In the neighborhood of it. And it's like a mix of acid and wheat for 10 minutes. Look at those guys tripping bull, son. Those guys are walking around with salvia, blowing salvia smoke. That's not a coincidence, man. They could have picked fucking cedar bark. They chose to take some super potent psychedelic and waft it through the air as they're walking back and forth. There's also that theory that the Salem witch trials are because they're all eating ergot. Yes. From the red. And they're all tripping. And they're all late frost. Yeah. Or early, yeah. Early frost. Yeah. That apparently is a really good one. They really think that that really could have been it. Well, there's a book called The Oracle about the Oracle of Delphi. And she had these visions, and she would prophesy the future. And they went there, and they found her stool. She was sitting over- Her poo? Or her stool that she sat on. It's got three legs to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought like an animal. What's it called? A couple? Copro. What's the thing for dinosaur poo? Fossilized copra or something? You can get those. I ain't dinosaur poo. Yeah. Fossilized. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So they found she was sitting over a crack with natural gas coming out. So she's getting high off of whatever that is. Oh, no shit. So there was natural gas leaking out to the ground where she was partying. Yeah. So of course, she's going to be speaking gibberish and having all these visions. Because she's getting- It's like, it's not like when you- What's with the- You inhale the- Yeah, yeah, yeah. And laughing gas. When you go to the huffing. Yeah. Oh. Nitrous. Totally makes sense. Yeah. I think that's probably a lot of these cases. Of course. Wacky things that people did. I mean, it only makes sense. I mean, they never did figure out what Soma is in the ancient Hindu- Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, they think it might have been some kind of psychedelic, but they don't know what. Like there's all this different speculation. Like some people think it was a combinatory, that it was like psilocybin mixed with something else. And lotus flower. There's all these like different theories. But nobody really knows. But Soma was obviously something that they were taking as a sacrament that would have these profound effects. That's most likely the root of all of these crazy religious experiences. These people were tripping their fucking balls off. And they weren't lying. God did come to them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. God did come to them out of the burning bush and spoke to them. That's the other thing, the burning bush. They think that- These scholars in Jerusalem think that the burning bush is probably the Acacia butch, which is rich in DMT. Oh. So that's probably why this is the metaphor, right? The burning bush and God spoke to them in the burning bush. That's probably what it really means. They were tripping, they were smoking it, tripping balls, and they met God. And he came back with it. This is the only way we're going to get along. We've got to stop raping each other. And the other thing is a lot of these old mystery religions, right? You have to be initiating to them. Yeah. And if you're going to join this cult or whatever, for lack of a better term, and they give you here, take this, you are going to experience something, not only that you've ever heard of, but you don't even know how to handle it. And it will change your life permanently. But there's no vocabulary for it there. It's not like now where you know what acid is. You're like, holy shit, this is religious. Right. You would think it's God. You met God. Yeah. Unless it's bad and then you meet the devil. You know about that guy, John Marco Allegro, do you know who he is? No. He's the guy who deciphered the Dead Sea Scrolls. Oh, okay. He worked on the panel for 14 years and he wrote a seriously controversial book. He was an ordained minister, but he was the only one on the Dead Sea Scroll translation group that they put together that was agnostic because he started studying while he was, he was an ordained minister, but then he started studying theology and he was like, this is all fucking crazy. Like, what is this? So he became agnostic and he wanted to look at the etymology of the words. Okay. And so he, it was his conclusion after 14 years that the entire Christian religion was a gigantic misunderstanding. And what it really was about was psychedelic mushroom experiences and fertility rituals. Okay. And he broke down the word Jesus to an ancient word that, an ancient Sumerian word that means a mushroom covered in God's semen. And the idea was that the, the rain, which would make everything grow was God's come and that it wasn't a bad thing. Like they didn't think of come as bad. They wanted to live. Everybody wanted it. They wanted to have children. They wanted to prosper. Yeah. And that when the rain would come, mushrooms would appear almost instantaneously. Like have you ever seen how mushrooms appear after a day? Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. Over night. Over night. Yeah. Yeah. And when they would eat those, they would trip their fucking balls off. So they had decided that this was Jesus and that this, this, this was what? Well, it was God's son. Yes. God created this from his own seed. Well, this is what Marco Allegro's, his research was pointing to. He was trying to say that what was really going on was these people were trying to hide a lot of what the psychedelic rituals are from the Romans and from the people that captured them. So they hid them in stories and parables. And then there was all sorts of problems in the translations. There's just like, you know, you're taking things from ancient Hebrew and you're breaking it down to Latin and you're breaking it down to German and English. And I can't, I can't believe he got a positive reception for this. If you're taking on. Didn't necessarily. He, the book got bought out by the Catholic church and then recently reinstated. And then. What do you mean bought out? They bought it. They like, they, I think they took it off the market. I think you used to be able to only get a copy of it. You used to only be able to get a, like a used copy. Okay. And then Jan Ervin put it out. He republished it like a few, I don't want to say maybe eight, 10 years ago. So now you can get a whole, but he also published another book after they took that one back. Well, I think, I don't know the total history of it, but he published a second book and the second book was the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christian Myth. And the first one was Sacred Mushroom in the Cross. Wow. But it only makes sense. If you think about people who lived back then, and we know that psychedelic mushrooms aren't recent, they existed forever. So these people found them and they most certainly did. There's a lot of depictions of them. And there's also a lot of iconography and a lot of things that, like you see shapes that resemble mushrooms, like all over the place and some of the ancient artwork and even people that are dancing naked under the influence of a mushroom. So there's a translucent mushroom shape that surrounds them and these ancient paintings and these religious paintings, these people are dancing. So most likely they were tripping balls. Well, if you didn't know any better, of course you would think that's God talking to you. If you didn't know what psilocybin is, you didn't know what dimethyl tryptamine is, you didn't know what any of these things are. Well, you're also going to hear voice, literal voices. Yes, literal voices. So it's not even that you're like, it's not a metaphor, you're going to hear a voice talking to you. Right. So people that think that like these people who created religion were all liars, they're probably more likely trippers. Because if you look at all these religious stories, they're all crazy and weird and fantastical and wonderful, but most of them are like guides to live life in a more virtuous or pious or moral way. Right? That's the tenets of a lot of these religions. Well, that's what you get when you trip. When you trip, you get, you gotta be a better person. Yeah. That's what you get. You get this like profound humbling, I shouldn't say humiliation, but humbling in the face of this titanic expression and experience that you can't even describe with words. And then after it's over, you want to be a better person. And there's also a sense of comfort that it's going to be okay. Yes, it's going to be okay. Which is what religion traditionally gives a lot of people, like the sense of reassurance that someone's looking out, you're not going to accidentally, you know, go into that. So you get a feeling that even if it's not okay, it's okay. Right. Like when you die, it's okay. When you trip balls, like one of the things that Larry Hagman say, remember Larry Hagman from Dallas, that is, I will say Dallas is probably the greatest show of all time. Great fucking show. That is, and people confused with Dynasty, which was trashy. Garbage. Dallas was one of the, I think it's literally the best show of all time. Was his name JR? What was his name? JR Ewing. That's right. Well, he tripped balls and talked about it on CNN and said that it was one of the best experiences of his life because he no longer was afraid of death. That before that, he was afraid of death. And the one thing that tripping and tripping hard apparently really did for him is that he no longer held that fear. And he had stared death in the face because of his alcoholism. You know, he had to have a liver transplant or whatever it was. So it was no joke. He was a huge alcoholic.