Joe Rogan & Rob Zombie Talk Old Horror Movies

So when you were saying that you collect films and you have films, do you go back to like the really old ones like Nosferatu? Oh yeah, I love silent movies and now they're easier to get because I always loved Lon Chaney but so many of the films were hard to get. I was showing my kids Lon Chaney two nights ago. What movie did they watch? Well, I was showing them the original Wolfman and I was showing them Jekyll and Hyde. I was showing them some of the, Lon Chaney Jr. was something from the original Wolfman. But his dad who was in Phantom of the Opera and hunched back in Notre Dame. Wasn't he Jekyll and Hyde as well? That was Lon Chaney, right? No, Frederick March. Oh, was? Well, it depends what, there's the John Barrymore, silent Jekyll and Hyde, but your predecessor. The Frederick March one is great. It's so perverted. Is it really? And he's like with the prostitutes and stuff. Isn't that the one you showed your kids? Like from the 30s? Oh yeah, for sure. From the 30s? After they watch porn. Well, there's the boring one with Spencer Tracy, his Jekyll and Hyde. Is it boring? Just compared to the other one. The other one's, because anything that's sort of like the pre-code stuff is really amazing. We watched the beginning of the Spencer Tracy one because it was so strange. There's actually, when you know on iTunes you can watch a preview, but it's not really a preview in its old films because they didn't have previews back then. So it's just a scene. And it's a scene when he's becoming Mr. Hyde, but he doesn't look any different. Yeah, he just kind of messed up his hair. Looks a little meaner. The Frederick March one is one of the best ones I ever made. It's so good. But Lone Chaney was like, it was Phantom of the Opera, which is a really interesting one because he put on some really painful makeup for that film. I mean, he just invented everything, yeah, the things he'd do. I mean, I don't know how much the stories have been exaggerated by publicity departments over the years, but yeah, I mean, it's just incredible. And movies like The Unknown or The Unholy Three, like you can get everything now. Forever, it's like impossible to see these movies. I don't do it anymore, but I used to collect vintage movie posters and that's what I would go after, the Lone Chaney silent movie posters because a lot of times I'd be like, there's only one of these in existence. And I was like, I gotta have it. Then I realized I'm spending too much money on things. Those old films, when I was trying to show them to my kids, I was just trying to... We were going from the 20s to the 30s. There's a movie that's the original horror film that I found out was 1920. It's actually two years older than Nosferatu. It was Dr. something... Dr. Caligari. Caligari, yes. Yeah, that's a good one. Yes. Yeah, we watched a little bit of that too. But I just wanted to show them how weird it is, like the progression of film, particularly scary films, because when my kids were real little, my wife was out of town and I said, do you guys want to watch a scary movie that's not really scary? And they were nervous. How old were they? At the time, I think they were five and three or maybe six and four, somewhere around there. So I'm throwing down the test. Do you want to watch it? But I knew it wasn't going to be really scary. So I put on the original King Kong from, what was that, like 1933? 1933, I think, yeah. And we were laughing. I was like, let me tell you something. We're going to watch this. And it's so fake. It looks so dumb. I go, we're going to laugh. And so we're cuddled up on the couch. They were nervous. Then once they saw the thing, they're like, that's it? That's the monster? I was like, let me tell you something, kid. In 1933, this was scary for people. They really thought this was realistic. They thought this was amazing. Do you ever have that moment you watch something, like say, I do this like Frankenstein? Like you've seen it so many times that it's hard to watch it like you've never seen it before. But sometimes I'll be watching something and there'll be a scene where like Frankenstein is killing Fritz and there's no music and he's just screaming. I was like, this must have fucking been so intense because no one had seen anything like this. They're watching this creature who they don't understand the makeup because no one knew what was done. Like, especially because he kind of the first appearance of Karloff is Frankenstein. He kind of backs in and turns. And his head's flat. He's got bolts on his neck. The Jack Pierce makeup is so incredible that I was just like, people must have been like running for the door. Pull up a picture of what Boris Karloff looked like in that movie. I haven't seen that in forever. It's so good. It was so good. I mean, and also it's so difficult for us to understand perspective, like to put yourself in their place back then. Yeah, look at that. Yeah, I mean, lighting was incredible. Now, we're used to seeing that. It's so iconic that like, oh, or that it becomes like, but if you'd never, I mean, never seen anything like that before. I mean, I guess going back to what we said a second ago, like Lon Chaney in Phantom of the Opera and his Quasimodo, you kind of. The bolts on the neck, but that must have just been like fucking cables for a battery. It's so crazy. The posts on his neck. Do you remember when they did a remake with De Niro? I do. I don't remember it movie very good. I don't remember it either, but I remember it being terrifying looking like, yeah, he was updated. Yeah, he looked cool in that. Yeah, it's a tough one though with those movies because they got it so right the first time. Yeah. The performances are like, when I watch, like I really like Legosi in Dracula. And when you watch it, I always feel like he's like Brando of that time because everyone else is like talking like, yeah, well, like they're still doing Vodka Bill and they're way over the top and they're too much. And he's like this in this doing this thing where sometimes you're like, you can't almost can't understand him because of his accent. Like wow, he's like in this whole weird head trip and they're like doing play. Hey, listen buddy. You know, like the way they're talking. And that's why nobody can remember David manners who got paid 10 times with the ghosty, but but Legosi is like this iconic thing like Marilyn Monroe. I mean, this was so out of time with so special what they were doing. Yeah, even in the one in the film, there's a scene where the woman had been bit and he's like, what's wrong? What's going on? And he's so corny and over the top and in that, you know, the style of that era, but Legosi is on another level. And the, and like everybody, like a lot of those actors then seem very much like they were in the closet and they were trying to like play with the woman and Legosi has that vibe like I'm going to fuck everything on this set before I leave this movie. You know, he just reeks of like, I'm from I'm Hungarian and I'm going to nail every actress in this film. Yeah. And he's a fucking powerful vampire. Like he bought into it. Like he was in the role. He was in the headspace. And a lot of those movies and other good ones like the black cat where like the same guy was in the Dracula's and he's so like swishing over the top and Legosi and Karloff together are so intense. It's like this two different movies going on in this weird Hollywood and this weird thing these other guys are doing, man. It's like Brando and Apocalypse Now. Like he's making a whole different movie. Him and Dennis Hopper. Yeah. You know, it's cool to just go back in time and see the progression of horror to go from those films. I still think Nosferatu to this day is one of the coolest vampires ever. It's so incredible. There was no there was no sort of benchmark before him. Right. I mean, and he looked so fucking weird with the long fingers and he looked creepy and the way he would rise. Remember when they had him on a board. Oh yeah. It just was like straight up. Sit straight up. It looks incredible. And I still and I love the the Herzog remake with Klaus Kinski. Oh, that's right. Werner Herzog did that. Yeah. He's so like, he's so perfect. Wow. Because he's like another crazy actor that just reeks of crazy right off the screen. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's just hard to do a good monster movie these days. I mean, I'm a gigantic Rick Baker fan. Obviously you see this. Yeah, Rick's coming on here too. Oh, is he? Super pumped. Oh yeah, his new book looks amazing. Yeah. I'm so excited. I'm getting him to promote that. But I'm just, I was, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a makeup artist. Oh really? It was one of the things that I wanted to do. Yeah. I was like, Rick Baker and I studied, you know, the early long, chaining days, like we were talking about. Yeah. And I just love the prosthetics and like Star Wars and shit, which by the way, I went to the Star Wars attraction yesterday. Oh, you did? At Disneyland. It's the shit. Woo, that fucking Star Wars ride. The ride is incredible, man. You're actually- It's simulated though, right? Yes, it's simulated. I can't do it. It's simulated, but you throw up. You throw up. I won't throw up, but I'll feel like I want to for the rest of the day. It's awesome. It's awesome. When the kids were steering, they got a chance to steer the, they were the pilots and you're slamming into fucking, because they have to coordinate. One goes up, one goes left and right. So up and down is one kid and left and right is the other. Are they next to each other in the cockpit or are they separate? Like how? Next to each other. Pretty close, but they're screaming at each other. Don't hit it. Oh my God. They're like asteroids flying. Boom. Things are, they're hitting shit, but just the ride is fucking incredible. I mean, you could see there's so much money poured into there and apparently there's a bunch of other ones that are there. They're in the process of developing too. Oh really? But I loved those movies and a big part of it was like, like the Cantina scene. If you, if you went to that now, you'd be like, Oh my God, it's obviously a mask. Oh yeah. Yeah. Like their faces and we're like, it's like the weird weird wolf guy. Yeah. No, but they're not moving. Yeah. But back then I was like, this is amazing. This is the, oh my God. I can so clearly seeing that, remember seeing that movie for the first time. Because I was like, it like you come out of, I remember coming out of the movie like shell shocked like everything I thought about everything just changed. Yeah. It's so, that's another movie that's so hard to put in perspective. I've watched it with my kids now and it's like, you got to bring them back to the 1970s when this movie came out. Like you don't get it. Like back then this was fucking insane how good it was. Yeah. People would watch, I mean, I watched it like, I think we had like little competitions with our friends to see who could watch it the most amount of times. I think I saw it like 13 times. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. And I, someone gave me a laser, not a laser, a blu-ray of the original before Lucas did all the extra stuff and ruined it. Somehow they had cut together. Somebody went to all the trouble of getting like a Japanese laser and they cut together a blu-ray of exactly the movie as it was in 1977. What did you do differently in the new version? Enhance some of the special effects. Yeah. That scene with the digital, you know, job of the HUD and just like, there'll be like the tauntaun that's like, there's just little robots and bullshit everywhere that wasn't there in the original. And now what seems so bad for effects and whenever it was 2000 now looks super bad. But the stuff from 77 still, that's why I always want to, like you watch 2001, you go like, how can this still look better than everything? These are literally models shot in 1968 or something. Well, Kubrick knew the limitations of the visual format. And so he, he shot things in a way where he didn't, he wasn't willing to compromise the way something looked to show you something that like, like sort of like the King Kong animation. Like that's the best they could do back then. But Kubrick figured workarounds. I just read this new book that came out, well, maybe six months ago, that's all about the Make Him 2001. And it's, the book is so detailed. I wish I could remember the title of it. And it's amazing the amount of time, like stuff you take for granted now, just how they had to make the digital readouts on the computer screens, because that stuff did not exist at all. So the amount of time that went into just simple background things that nobody cares about, it's just mind blowing. And just the weightlessness scenes and how they did all that stuff, which still look amazing. No, it's still an incredible movie. And it's also a time capsule, right? It's like, it's one of those films that it's great, but it's also great and a time capsule. Yeah. It's, I love it because I love all those movies for the same reason, because they take over the viewer, like most movies, they are like, you watch it and it's doing what the movie thinks will make you happy. Whereas Kubrick's doing stuff like, well, this is what it would be like to be in space. Yeah. This is the pace it's going to unfold at. Yeah. Like, which is painfully slow at times. Well, you can't get away with that today. No, because people are too, I don't know, they don't have the attention span. I don't think, and same thing with Barry Lyndon or Clockwork Orange. Doesn't matter what movie it is, it's the Shining. Yes. Like now if someone made the Shining, it'd go, it's great. You got to cut the first hour out of it. You know? Too much building. We're going to start it with a red rom scene. Yeah. Started with a hatchet. No slamming into somebody. Yeah. The opening shot would be, you know, scat man for others. And then go three months earlier. Yeah. Yeah, they would do that. They would go three months earlier. You know, they would do that. It's cool to see though, like, those films, they did what they could do with what was available. Whereas with now, the problem with CGI is they use it. And they overuse it. And I think that, I don't, I mean, CGI can be phenomenal. For sure. But it's a tool and it's turned into a crutch. And I see it with actors. Like, you see actors a lot of time, and I feel bad for the actors, because you'll see the actors that you go, I know these guys are great, but they're awful in this movie, because they didn't train to stand in a warehouse that's green and pretend to look at stuff. Yeah, right. So they really, like, when you watch The Phantom Menace, you go, why does it suddenly seem like Liam Neeson can't act? Right, right, right. Because he's like, look at that dot on the wall. I mean, and you know these guys are incredible actors. I was talking to somebody once, a kid that was in my movie, he was in all the Spy Kids movies, and he said it was so hard because they'd be on a green screen, they'd be like, you're looking at that, well, we're not sure what you're looking at, but just stare at that dot and react. He's like, well, what is it? Is it a dragon or is it my mom? What am I reacting to? Like, we haven't figured it out yet. And he said he was always in a constant state of confusion as to what he was reacting to. Well, it's hard too when you go back and you look at some of them, like, you know what movie got it right that sort of didn't get enough respect in its time, but in time, like as time passed, it's become more respected. It's Starship Troopers. Yeah, I don't remember that movie that well. It's all like killer bugs. I thought you were going to say Forrest Gumps. No, but like removing Major Dan's legs. I mean, that's like when CG's us. I thought, oh shit, they found a guy with no legs who's a great actor because I don't know who Gary Sinise was back then. How about the ping pong scene? Yeah, right. It means a lot of CGI shit. Stuff like that's amazing. Yeah. What it was getting with monster movies though, it's Pat McGee. He's a guy who did that werewolf, the one that's out there. He'll make them for you like he makes them for us. And we had this conversation about it. We were saying that you can see CGI and even if it's awesome, your brain knows it's CGI. That's funny. I have that same thought that it's something subliminally your brain knows it's all fake. Yes. Like Godzilla. Yeah, like Godzilla, like when you know it's a guy in a rubber suit crushing things. Like if you watch the original one when they cut in Raymond Burr, there's something so dark and fucked up about them. Yes. Because everything's, that's real fire. There's actually three dimensional objects blowing up. But when it's so big and fake, like I always say, like what's scarier? A giant CG creature that you know you will never see or like a maniac with a pillowcase over his head holding an axe coming at you. Like your brain goes, that could happen. I get it. Because he has things like, well, that's, I'm not going to, that's like Roger Rabbit. That's not going to happen. You know, it's not, it might be cool or it might be big, but it's not. Like one of the scariest horror movies of all time is Alien. Yeah. And in the first few encounters they have with the creature, you don't even see the damn thing. No, because it's, you couldn't show it that much like the, you know, like the shark and jaws, but when you see it, it's like, it's actually there. Yes. And you can feel that it's jaws are right in front of Sigourney Weaver's face. Yes. It's not like she's looking at nothing and her eye line's a little off because it's a, you know, a tennis ball and a stick she's looking at. There's something about it really happening in the space that I think people can feel it. And Sigourney Weaver is, I think Sigourney Weaver in Alien is the greatest female action hero star ever because you bought it hook, line and sinker. She was a scientist. She wasn't supposed to be this heroine that's out there just fucking things up and killing everybody. And she wasn't supposed to be super hot and sexy and young. But she was hot enough. Because she became tough and it made her, but like, like the whole, I remember when Alien came out, it was kind of like when the thing came out and all the reviews were bad, if you remember. Was it really? Yeah. I mean, the reviews are everything are bad when you go back and they're like, oh, these, there's no redeemable characters or they're all cartoon, these cardboard characters. They rip everything apart. But like it's like Harry Dean Stanton, Yaffa Kodo and all that. Every great character actor doing these great roles. But it was like now if they remade that, it'd be like everybody, but that's the thing. The reviews never mean anything. They're just like so crazy. The first time, was it Harry Dean Stanton that saw it the first time? Who was it that saw it the first time where they climbed down into the, they climbed down the stairs and it's right there. I don't remember. You only see it for like a second. It was a physical thing, but the point is it was an actual guy in a suit. And you knew by the way it was moving that it was an actual guy right in front of him. And it took up three dimensional space in real life and you could feel it. You could feel it. And, you know, yeah, I mean, just like when the chest burst thing, it's an actual thing. It's a thing. It's like, it's fucking bizarre. Or an American werewolf in London. Same thing. You see brief glimpses of this thing, like really quick, like one frame, one second of it, you know, and then at the end of it, you see it even when they murdered, they kill it in the hallway or in the alleyway. Spoiler alert. That's you know, you only see it for a couple seconds when it stares at her and then they gun it down. Yeah. That was like the heyday for effects. Everybody I know who does effects, it was like the thing American werewolf in London or the howling was like the thing that made every and fangorra when that started. You started really getting articles and stuff and like Rob Boteen and Rick Baker, like became like rock stars to the horror nerds.