Joe Rogan & Gad Saad - Men, Women, Money and Mating

that you know like to say that you've never dated anybody is over six foot five well you're tall phobic that's that's ridiculous statement that doesn't make any sense you know to say that you've uh... you've never dated anybody that weighs more than three hundred pounds you know you're uh... your mass phobic here that's ridiculous status yeah it says all that stupid that's all stupid people tell me but this what they're doing is it's a bunch of people that are pushing this idea of being open entirely open to all things trans that you as a heterosexual person should not just recognize that this is a woman because they transferred from uh... of mail to a female but recognize even if they haven't transferred and recognize them in terms of sexual selection turns of the date and that's just fucking stupid because you can decide right you're not into certain things like i'm not really in the girls are short hair you decide that's not my thing i don't like girls shaved heads i don't find it attractive like a woman can say that too i don't like guys are creepy mustaches and nobody gets mad at them right but if a man says to certain people i'm not in the chicks with dicks and that guys a piece of shit or what about there's a thing called sexual racism where you specifically you know are not attracted to a particular you know yeah i i don't like uh... asian men i don't like uh... right black women right you're not supposed to instantiate those sexual preferences if the racial q is the one that's causing you to either be attracted or not touch someone what do you think of that well there's certainly beautiful people of all race so that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me in terms of the person selection like if you tell me you've never seen a beautiful black woman like you're crazy like you have met enough black women if you tell me seventeen a beautiful asian woman like what what are you saying like there's beautiful people also you should be allowed to be with whoever you want in terms of not but but why is it's always sex because like obnoxious people here's perfect example i don't like friends are loud get drunk in public oh what are you drunk phobic no i just don't enjoy that so like in terms of sexual selection i tell you i have dates i tell you why that analogy might fail okay some of the progressives you could alter your level of obnoxiousness you could grow out of your boxes as well i know some people conceivably fear that i was people are fucked that's just who they are fair enough you wanna name any names now but your race is a immutable part of you okay that's the perspective yes you that i am i'm playing devil's advocate i'm not agreeing with it okay but what about uh... the tall versus short right you know what if you're a woman volleyball player in your six foot three you don't want to date a guy's five feet tall you know are you what do you what do you know by the way that is one of the biggest problems of being a very tall woman because one of the one of the so there's something called the sort of mating evolutionary theory sort of mating is basically birds of feather flock together and that's very much the mechanism that drives mate choice much more than opposites attract so one of the sources of mating cues that people most of sort on his height so it's not so much that women want guys that are only six foot or taller it's just that the woman wants a guy who's taller than her right so if you look at that there is a study that i've discussed in the past uh... that looked at something like seven hundred and twenty actual couples i think there was only a single one out of the seven hundred twenty where the woman was taller than the man now once a woman gets to be over certain heights she's six foot two six foot three her potential pool of prospective suitors really shrinks and so if you have a daughter you really want to pray that you don't get too tall because boy are her choices going to be limited because few women want to date a shorter guy yeah when you're at six foot three six foot four woman you've got to be a tough spot being you're basically relegated to big athletes or big giant people the the the other place where you get the sort of a sort of mating is where you get women who are super educated uh... that makes sense the exact same thing happens for the more educated a woman gets the worse her marriage prospects because the more sophisticated women are the more they insist on a high status male and therefore as i get more educated as a woman there are just fewer men who are as educated or more than me and therefore i'm doomed to a life of solitude that totally makes sense that totally makes sense especially considering that men you know in general they get insecure around women who are more successful yes and more educated or more intelligent like very rarely are men comfortable with the woman who has to explain things to them absolutely not not by the way i think so i have another theory which i'd like to at some point test maybe someone will steal it now when you have a couple that gets married very young they are judging one another based on their made value at eighteen or nineteen right so tony is the high school quarterback and so he's the hot guy and i'm the cheerleader and then later he stagnates he doesn't go on with his career whereas i go on and become a physician i'm the cheerleader so at twenty nine there is not a huge inequity between our two mating values on the mating market right so when we were both nineteen the fact that we had roughly the same mating value made us a very attractive stable couple but tony turned out to be a fucking loser exactly he's a lame duck right exactly and so i so i have a theory that and i'd like to at some point that said maybe some graduate student will write to me saying i'll work with this on you dr san i have a theory whereby i think that in many cases where people end up divorcing when they married young it's precisely because that which started as equitable mating values at time t zero turned out to have huge divergence in our trajectory on the mating market and that puts a huge strain on the marriage especially when the wife status is going up that the best way to ensure that the marriage ends is for the status of the woman to keep going up and that of the man to either stagnate or go down that's going to be doomed that makes sense it may it makes sense that also being obviously the young marriages are rough because people grow and they don't necessarily grow together right you catch people ten years later and they're oftentimes radically different people but then there's also the thing that women don't seem to for the most part respect a man who's not doing as well as them and that's uh... that's a giant issue even if the guys doing okay like say if your guys making fifty thousand dollars a year that's a very good living he's out there doing well but you make three hundred make three hundred grand a year and it's fucking losers over here with fifty grand like you're kicking ass you're like some big wig at some big corporation like that that seems to be a real sticking point and with men especially if they have a household where they contribute income together they they pile all the income the man starts spending the woman's money on stuff you know he starts buying stuff got new fishing rod would you get that with your money or my money you know it gets weird right and incidentally uh... so speaking of consumer psychology stuff that i study when you take a very rich woman and you go out on a date with her even though she obviously can afford the dinner and she can afford anything that you're going to buy her if you exhibit cues of frugality cheapness that's the perfect way to ensure that you won't have a second date so it's not so much a question of uh... you know it's an old sexist ritual whereby men were wooing women it really is an honest signal of your commitment to a woman so the best way and i get many of these letters where people ask me hey professor where you know dating advice well you do have to exhibit generosity when you go out with women that nuptial gift giving up should give giving is sort of the fancy term for courtship rituals across animal species so many species you have typically the male engaging in some form of courtship gift giving and depending on the quality of the gift will determine whether the female will mate with you or not well so much of what we do in marketing context is exactly that right it's the exact same phenomenon repeating itself in the human context right engagement rings the fact that you're supposed to spend a quarter of your yearly salary on this rock sorry it's that's what i'm i don't know if everybody needs it that's right it is that right three months exactly god when you say a quarter of the yearly salary makes me school what in the fuck is wrong with people but there is so much money but here's the but here's the reason here's the reason you ready it's it's it's what's called is a havian signal i don't know if i've ever discussed this in this in this uh... podcast uh... is a havian signals basically idea that for a signal to be honest it has to be costly otherwise everybody could imitate it right so something so think about for example rights of passage in different cultures right if you want to demonstrate that you're a top warrior the right of passage has to be brutal otherwise if it's only we all have to do five sit-ups then every male could do it and then the females can determine the the pretenders from the real guys right so it so you have for example bullet and you know this one too you put your hands through right i mean that takes a lot of courage and a good capacity to be able to know what we're talking so this is a tribe in the amazon whereby you take the bullet and is supposedly biggest purveyor of pain that is humanly possible to experience my friend steve gets done by one did it and what did he was in uh... bolivia i believe and uh... he got stung and uh... in his heel government he'll and he said it was just he was delirious with pain and he said it lasts for a few hours and it goes away right so what they do in this tribe is they take a bunch of these hands in the order of a couple of hundred one is enough to cause you agonizing impossible delirious pain and they sedate them through this uh... compound uh... and then into weave them in these gloves these uh... leaf gloves so that when they're coming to they come out of their stupor and you have your hands in there they start viciously biting you stinging you and you're supposed to withstand that pain without screaming you have to take it and so you sort of almost go into this religious fervor this kind of uh... incantation and you have to do that ritual twenty separate occasions really on the teptet twenty different times on different days twenty twenty before you are admitted into the to try both warriors whatever well now let's think about to the engagement ring right if all it takes for me to convince you of my honest intentions is to buy you flowers and now let's go back behind the shed and have sex well then a lot of cheaters are going to convince you of doing this when they really didn't have good intentions but if it takes for me to spend a quarter of my salary to convince you that i have on so therefore this is a form of what's called sahavian signaling because the havi was a Israeli ornithologist that studied this type of behavior this costly signaling behavior using Arabian babblers which is a type of bird so here's another example of a sahavian signal uh... you probably have seen this uh... when you have a predator uh... that's looking at who to attack you often will have gazelles starting to actually make themselves conspicuously visible to the predator they come close to him they start jumping from have you no it's called strotting not strutting can you think why that would be no why are they not hiding why they're not making themselves uh... inconspicuous why are they drawing attention to themselves when there are fifty different gazelles that the predator could be pointing to well because what it's what what that animal saying is the fact that i could stand here in front of you and jump up and down and make myself this visible suggests that it's probably a lost cause for you to try to go after me i'm super fit it's a costly signal my fitness it's an honest signal the one who is not doing this behavior is the one that you should be paying attention to so this is called and so i use this principle of sahavian signaling to explain things like conspicuous consumption right the reason why you buy the fancy car that the other males can't hope to purchase it's precisely because they can't afford to match your signal therefore it's an honest signal the reason why i buy a hundred million dollar painting that a monkey could have drawn shows how wealthy i am that i could waste a hundred million dollars that makes sense that makes sense it's all just mating stuff mating and food yeah you don't want to become somebody's dinner you want to find dinner and you want to have sex good night everybody pfft yeah those signals are so fascinating when we see them in our culture and and people get angry at them like you see some guy pull up in a Ferrari and you go look at this fucking loser with his little dick right you're like maybe or maybe a guy with a shitload of money wants to let the world know because he likes to fuck you right i've shared actually on this show i think the stories about my one of my brothers who was a big car collector three Ferraris Aston Martin Lagunda and i've even shared a story which i'm happy to repeat uh... we would go to night clubs where he's just this is the Olympian this is the five-foot three guy who would go to night clubs and he would pick the most beautiful woman and approach her even though she's accompanied by six foot four tough-looking guy and and he had that confidence i think because he had that wealth catapulting him he it certainly helps it certainly helps yeah it's um it is a it is a weird ever prevalent aspect in the communication between men and females is how much money does the man have right i mean and this is one thing that will a lot of women hate because they don't want to feel like they could be purchased and they can't they can't some can write allot can it's a factor it's a big fan while a lot of women are very were just rapidly ruthlessly independent they don't want that ever in their life and good for them but but the reality is it's a very effective strategy you pull up in that Ferrari or that rolls royce or whatever the fuck you're driving and it has a big impact and get to that night club and those studies have been done endlessly nasa ecology so here's one example and you don't need to have a signal as big as a Ferrari how you dress in terms of the status that is exhibited yes study that was done i think in the early nineties where they manipulated the status the it's the sartorial the the attire men and women into one of three different types you know high status medium and you know some t-shirt or mcdonald's uniform whatever and then they asked men and women one of six possible you know would you go out with the for coffee with this guy would you go out on dinner would you have sex with them would you marry him and across all six levels of relationships the status of the attire of a man had a profound effect on the likelihood of the woman saying yes higher the status the more likely she said yes that same manipulation on women had zero effect on men yeah and in other words no man has ever uttered the following words my god you've got a juicy but and i'd love to have sex with you but you're not exhibiting cues of ambition therefore no sex for you linda yeah that's uh... that's a reality that's a reality people are very uncomfortable with them i don't think women necessarily are craving the same reaction from men because of their ambition i don't think women are ever saying through my ambition i'm gonna get a good man right you know that's just it's not a factor in that but they do say through my ambition i'm never going to need a man that's because that's just look that there's a reality is there's a lot of shitty human beings out there and some of them have penises and if you're a woman you run into too many of those or for by for whatever reason because of your environment because of your behavior because the circles you travel in around too many of them as a a large dating pool shitheads out there you know you just say i don't want this in my life i want to want to be like my mom i don't want to be like my sister i want to be independent but what you're not saying is i am going to get a baller house and a baller car and i'm gonna get me a man and the only woman that i know of that i've ever heard say that is disgusting and the only woman that i ever she's like you know talking about her success now her success allows her to get men she's a foul beast yeah she's not it's not healthy but incidentally a lot of women it's not so much of their interest i mean resources are good only to the extent that they allow you to ascend the social hierarchy right yes this doesn't explain why some women are attracted to the starving artists right because what why are so many women romanticizing over the guy with the guitar but that's because they are choosing him based on his future trajectory right i am back right i am banking on the fact that you exhibit enough talent that i suspect that by investing in you by choosing you it's gonna take me to that trajectory no woman has ever uttered the following words you have no talent you exhibit no ambition you're never going to step out of the basement let's have sex right so so it's not that women are only interested in money they're interested in a panoply of cues all of which relate to the potential of ascending the social hierarchy