Former Navy Pilot Details Tic Tac UFO Encounter | Joe Rogan

So what year was your incident and you have a very, very famous incident that's corroborated by actual evidence, which is one of the rare ones. What year was it and where did it take place? So it was 2004, November 14th of the, it's really, if you draw San Diego to Ensenada, Mexico, we're about 60 miles off the coast in between the two. We're doing workups. So when we get ready to deploy, this was for the 2005 deployment. We were going at sea for November and December of 2004. So we had been out, I had just taken over the squadron mid October. So I had been the CO for a month. So we go out and we're putting the battle group pieces together. So it's not just the air wing, but we're, you know, we're on the carrier. We've got the cruiser. We've got all the support ships out there and we're going to integrate all the defenses and train as one unit. So the exercise that we're going to do is an air defense exercise where there's good guys, bad guys, they're all from internal, from the air wing. So the bad guys today are going to be the Marines, VMFA-232, the Red Devils. So they're going to launch and they're going to go about a hundred miles south of the ship and we're the good guys. And it's, we call it a 2V2. So it's two of us against two of them. And we're going to work with the USS Princeton, which is going to be the controller and they're going to control the blue forces. And then the red guys are going to give us a presentation that, you know, they're going to try and intercept so we can stop them from getting up towards a carrier. So that's kind of the training set that we're all good. So the Marines take off first and they start heading to the south. Now we have no idea that for two weeks, the two weeks we've been at sea, they've been tracking these things coming out of the sky. And when I talked to the Princeton controller, he's like up to about a dozen of them. They would come down from above 80,000 feet. They dropped down to about 20,000 feet. They'd hang out and then they'd go straight back up after about three or four hours. Now, when you say they've been tracking them, who specifically? This is the USS, the Princeton is tracking them. They saw them on the Nimitz radar and the E-2 could see them. So because they're out there, you know, that radar is on all the time. And the spy one system on an Aegis cruiser is, you know, the state is probably one of the most sophisticated systems in the world. So typically when something like this happens and there is some unexplained phenomenon, what do they do? In this case, you know, if it was, if we were in a threat environment, they would tell us, but we're off the coast of San Diego. It doesn't come to the air wing. So we have no idea that these things are out there at all. So they observe these things and they never bother telling any of you guys. That's correct. So they just knew that these things had been visiting this area, but they just allowed this training exercise to take place anyway. Yeah. Talking to them, the previous for the two weeks, they would show up, but it was when we weren't flying. So the typical carrier schedule is, you know, for us, it was about noon to midnight. It's a 12 hour day. There's reasons for that. You can go a lot longer. But for training, we just do the 12 hour day thing. And it's cyclic ops. So you got guys taken off and landing periodically. So we were on one of the first goes, you know, it's, you know, noon, one o'clock somewhere on there and we take off the Marines take off first. And my buddy Cheeks, who's the CEO of the Marine squadron was one, he was leading the red air. They had, when he launched off the carrier first, they called him up and said, Hey, what are you got on board? Well, the, the small, the original legacy F 18s don't have as much gas as the Super Hornets. Super Hornets about 30% bigger. So they start talking to him about fuel and based on how long we're going to be airborne and everything else, they go, Hey, why don't you just go ahead and proceed to your, your cap point because we had just taken off. And that's when the controller had come up and said, Hey, yeah, I forget our cost and it's probably like dealers usually what we went. So that'd be like dealer one, one, this is a printing control. What do you got? You know, say your loadout. I kind of chuckled. He said, I said, well, I got a cat him nine, which is a, it's a basically just a blue metal tube with a seeker head for an aim nine IR missile. It's a training. It doesn't come off the airplane. You can beat it with a sledgehammer. That's the only way you're going to get it off or you got to unlock the lugs with a key. So I'm like kind of chuckling. He goes, well, Hey, we're going to cancel the training. So we're like, okay. He says, we got real world vector and they're going to send us out to the West. So picture if it's a, you know, if you've got a clock, the Nimitz is in the middle. We're a little bit south of that about 40 miles south. And then the Marines are about a hundred miles south of the ship, about 60 miles between the two of us. So as this is all happening, my wingman is joining up and right. And these are F 18 F so there's two people in each jet. So it's me and my wiz. Which is weapon systems operator. And I've got the other pilot and the weapon systems operator. Now they're jet. So they tell us all this, Hey, we're going to real world vector. And they send us out to seven zero, about 60 miles away from where we're going. So now we're going out even further out to see, we have no idea what we're intercepting. And this is when the controller starts talking to us. He says, Hey, sir, we've seen these objects. For two weeks they've been coming down and he's given us the whole story. He says, we need you to go investigate. We want to know what these are. But they're asking you to investigate in a jet that's unarmed. That's correct. We have no, and there's reasons for that, that we don't fly. We typically don't fly with live ordnance unless we're actually going into like a combat zone or we're on a training range and we're going to shoot something. And the reason is you can go through history of the Navy or Air Force. If you put live missiles on airplanes and then you start doing training where you're squeezing the trigger, someone always messes the switch algae up and someone gets shot down. It's happened multiple times. So we don't do it. There's times that we do, but it's rare. So we start flying out to the West. Now I want you to think, because the other pilot has a, when you talk to, it's out there, it was a female. When you talk to her, it's, here's the, kind of goes through the mindset of, hey, we're off the coast of Mexico, real world vector. We have no idea what we're going to look at. Try drug runner because you get the drug runners coming up the coast. So we're like, okay. So we drive out and they're calling down ranges. So they're telling us, hey, it's 270 at 30 miles at 20,000 feet. And it's, you know, and then you just count down the ranges and we're talking back and forth the whole time. So they got to a point where they say, hey, merge plot, which means radars have resolution cells, you know, range and azimuth of what the radar can actually see. Once you're inside that box, you can't tell the difference between me and the object I'm going at. We're just become one big blob. So they call merge plot. And so the other jet is on my left hand side and we're going to, and I'm going to go to a clock code to make it simple. So the object we're going to end up looking for is right in the middle of the clock and we are at the six o'clock position and my wingman is off to my left side. So it's, she's further down with her widow. So as we're looking around, we look to the right and there's a, yesterday was a perfect example out here. The water is perfectly calm, no white caps. I mean, it's literally a perfect San Diego, California day. And we see white water, something like if you see a seamount, you know, a rock underwater when you're standing on the shore and the waves are breaking over and you're like, what is that? It's usually because there's a rock under the water. So it looks like that, but it's about the size of a 737. It actually kind of has a shape of like a cross and it's pointing to the east. So you've got the long part going east west and you got a couple of things going north and south. So as we're looking at it, cause that kind of draws our eyes, we're like, oh, that's kind of odd. We look down and the, the wizzo and the other airplane comes up and says, Hey, Skipper, do you. And that's about what he gets out of his mouth. And I'm kind of looking at the same thing. I go, dude, do you see that? What is that thing? And what we see is this white tic tac looking object just above the surface of the water pointing north south and it's going north, south, east, west. It's just radically moving forward, back, left, right at will. And it's moving around the disturbance, the white water that we see. How big is this thing? Over time, it's about 40 feet long. And the way I estimate that is, I mean, I got a lot of time fighting other airplanes. So it's about, about the size of a Hornet fuselage. So that's what you say 40 feet. And this thing's just going left. So the first thing you see when you look down and you go, and this is with our eyes, it's not sensors, right? So we're looking down at this thing. And first thing you think is helicopter, right? The helicopter's typically stable, 200 feet when we're out there and they're just driving around. We're pretty far away from the ship for a helicopter, for one of ours. So what is it? So the first thing you look for is rotor wash. If you've watched any TV show that starts kicking the water up, you can see that. It's really easy to see from the air. So we're like, no rotor wash. Matter of fact, I don't see any rotors. Don't see any tail rotor. Don't see any, the main rotors. We're like, that's kind of weird. So as we're driving around, we're looking at this thing. We get to about the nine o'clock position. How far away are you from this thing? I'm at 20,000 feet and it's right down on the surface, right off our right side. So I'm probably maybe a couple miles lateral and 20,000 feet and we're just watching it move around. So it's very small in your eyes? Not overly small. I mean, an airplane down that low, it's 40 feet. But you can see it pretty well. It was pretty clear. So I'm like, okay. So I say, I'm going to go check it out. That's what we're trained to do. The other pilot says, hey, I'm going to stay up here. And I'm like, that's perfect. So now we'll get some separation. We'll get it from different views. And the other airplane will kind of a God's eye view. Everything that's going on as I go down to check this thing out. So I start driving around and it's still doing its forward, back, left, right. It's still pointing north, south. We get to about the 12 o'clock position. I'm just in a nice, easy descent. A reason, because I've been asked, can you go more aggressive? You can, but when you're out over water, the water looks the same at 20,000 feet as it does at 2,000 feet. So you can easily put yourself in a non-recoverable position if you're not paying attention and you go into the water. So I got this nice, easy descent. I get to about 12 o'clock. And as I'm coming down, I could guess probably about 18,000 feet now, a couple thousand feet below the other airplane. The tic-tac just kind of rapidly goes boop and turns. So now it's kind of pointing east-west and now it mirrors us. So it's above the surface. We're up high. We're coming down. It starts coming up. I'm like, well, this is getting interesting. So we kind of drive all the way around a circle. I'm descending. It's coming up. I'm going to go to about the 8 o'clock position on the clock. And it's over at about the 2 o'clock position. Well the quickest way, as we know, as kids to get someone, you know, you can keep going around the circle. Nothing's going to happen. You cut across the circle. So I'm about, I don't know, probably 2,000 to 3,000 feet above it. And I just kind of drop my nose aggressively and I cut across the circle. And it's coming this way. Because I'm trying to fly to where it's going to be because I want to join on it. I want to see how close I can get to it. And as I'm pulling up, it's kind of starting to cross my nose and it starts to accelerate. And within about less than a second, as I start to pull nose onto it and it crosses right in front of me, it just goes poof and it's gone. So I call the other airplane. I said, hey, do you guys see that thing? And they're like, sir, it's gone. We don't see it at all. So I'm like, OK, that's kind of weird. So we don't see it. We're looking. At the same time, I say, hey, let's turn around and let's go back to see what was in the water. You know, was there something there? So we turn around. We're right there. It's gone. Water's perfectly. There's no white water, nothing. It's just blue. We're like, OK. So we turned back around. Now we're heading back out towards the east. And I tell the controller, I said, well, I said, you know, I first said, I'm kind of weirded out. And I told my backseater that. We start heading back and the controller on the Princeton comes up and he says, sir, you're not going to believe this, but that thing is back at your cap point. That was our original point where we were going to hold 40 miles south of the ship. So this thing has went from wherever we were at to about 60 miles in maybe 30, 40 seconds. It's already over there. And it just and they didn't track it. It just appeared. He just shows back up on the radar and they go, it's here. So we're like, OK. So we fly back. We don't see it. We don't see it on our radar. We don't see it on any of our sensors. We do like two runs and we come back to the ship and land. So as we're in our, it's we call it the PR shop. We're taking off our flight gear. One of my crews is getting ready to go out and I think they were going to be on a tanker mission, but they had a targeting pod on board. So they launch off and we're telling them about this before. And I in the backseater Chad says he's really determined he's going to find this thing. So he tells a pilot, hey, we're going to find this thing. So there's out driving around and in the backseat of a super hornet, there's no stick, but there's side stick controllers and they're to control the sensors because that's what the weapon systems guys do. And they can change displays really fast by just hitting a button and it'll flip from the radar to the targeting pod. And the way the system actually works is when you see something on the radar and you designate it as your primary target, all the other sensors will look at that point. So it's everything is kind of synced together. So he picks up a hit on his radar and he goes to lock it up because I watched all the tapes. He goes to lock it up and immediately the radar can tell it gets signals back that it's being jammed. So and technically jamming is an act of war. It starts jamming the radar, goes into a jam extrapolate. A bunch of stuff happens on the scope. Well, he's smart enough to castle to his targeting pod and he takes a passive track. And that's the video that you see of the tic-tac where it's just sitting in the middle of the screen real quiet. So he does that and he goes through it. If you watched the video, if we had it, I'd go through it with you, but they go through all the different modes. So he goes, it's an IR and an EO, EO is TV. It's black and white TV camera. We can get the video right online. Yeah. Let's get the video, Jamie. Where would you, uh, can't show it to anybody. We can't, we can't show it on YouTube, but you can see it and people will be able to go to it. You know what we'll do? Go to the video and we'll tell people when we're starting and we'll tell people what the title of the video that you get to is and they can sync it up themselves if they're watching it. It's publicly owned. Sorry. It's publicly owned. It's, you know, American government. Right. So it is actually something in the public domain. So you think we could play it on YouTube and not get pulled? Yeah. A hundred percent. You think so, Jamie? It's a government. Those things, I would say yes, we should be able to, but sometimes those things get messy. So let's take a chance. Okay. Let's take a chance with this one. I know if you go, if you're on a New York Times article, there's a link to it. It's Pentagon release. YouTube is crazy with copyright stuff and we've always been like two steps away from getting pulled off of YouTube completely. It's a real disaster. I understand from their perspective, there's a lot of legal issues they have to deal with, but I have it on a private server. I could maybe send Jamie. The issue I believe though is the actual copyright of the video itself. Oh, it's just, it's a Pentagon release. Pentagon release public domain. And the Pentagon's going to come after us. I don't think so. So either. Do you find it? I want to find a good version of the video that doesn't have somebody else's copyright. Jeremy, do you know? Yeah, I've got an unwatermarked version. Let me just look it up and send it here. This has tons of all the real stuff over it. Jeremy will get it to us. I have to figure out how to send it to you right here. Give me a second. Do you have a airdrop? Could you airdrop it? Yeah, but I got it on a page, a private page that can send Jamie. Oh yeah, okay. Okay. Do you have Jamie's info? No. I'll send it to him. Okay. I'll figure it out. Well, you can send it to me and I'll send it to him. Okay. That's pretty easy. Sorry to disrupt the momentum. No, you're okay. But I think it's probably important to be able to have the video itself so you could just talk about it. And we're about to yank it up here. Okay, Jamie wrote it down for you. There you go. Give me a second to get it out. Okay. And for people who don't know, Jeremy also produced Bob Lazar, Area 51 in Flying Saucers and he was in here when we had Bob Lazar in, talk about Bob's experience and Jesus, if that wasn't a game changer for me and for a lot of other people. This is a subject that it's so easy to mock. You know, this is why I think it's so important that we talk to people like you because like I said, just your average everyday UFO crackpot, they believe everything and anything. Had you ever had any UFO experiences before this? No, the irony and I tell this story. My mother-in-law, she'll be listening. Every time I would go home, she would ask me, hey, did you see UFO? Did you see a UFO? And I'd be like, no. When I first started dating my wife, she was a big like national inquirer. She had all the supermarket tabloids and I would always just feed her crap for it. So this happens and I never say a word. My friends all knew it was a great story over beers because they'd be like, hey, what's the coolest thing you ever saw flying? I go, I chased a UFO and they go, get out of here. I go, no, seriously. And I tell them the story and they're like, dude. I go, yeah. So I go home and I got asked by Lou Elizondo to do the New York Times article, which as like anything else, I always say no. It took a bunch of times to get me on your show. Jeremy kept asking, asking, asking and it was... Thank you, Jeremy. Yeah. You got to thank my contractor's wife, Angel, who we were at a party drinking and she goes, you got to do Rogan. She goes, it's the biggest podcast on the planet. She goes, you got to do it. And I go, all right, I'm going to do it. Just for you, I'm going to do this show. Shout out to Angel. Yeah, from New Hampshire. So my mother-in-law, we're sitting there and I know the New York Times article is going to come out and so I was at Thanksgiving in 2017. So it's Thanksgiving in 2017. And everyone had kind of left the house. So it's just my wife and my in-laws, a couple of sitting in the kitchen and I said, hey, I got to tell you guys this. They said what I said. It's going to be this article comes out in the New York Times and I'm in it. And they're like, yeah, I go, well, I chased a UFO. My mother-in-law is like, ha ha. She looks at my father-in-law. He's rolling his eyes looking at me like, are you serious? And I go, yeah, yeah. And she's like, you never told us. I go, I never really told anyone. I mean, my wife and kids knew the event happened, but they didn't have all the details because it was just one of those things we just didn't, I just didn't get into. Is it classified? No. Was it at any point in time? No. There were rumors out there that I was classified and the ship got locked down. No, it wasn't. It was, we were never, men in suits did not show up. No one told us not to talk about it. And this is because there's a lot of other people saying other things. And I said, let's look at it. Here's the context. So in the battle group, you've got the admiral, you got the captain of the ship, the captain of the Princeton, and then you've got the other COs. So in position wise, I'm probably as a CO of a squadron in the top 20 out of 6,000. And no one came to talk to me. No one came to take my tapes. No one showed up in a suit. No one told me not to talk. No one talked to any of my air crew that were involved in this. All there were six people total involved. The two that shot the video and the four of us that looked at it for five minutes with our eyes. No one, nothing. It just, and I can get into how, you know, there's a report that, that George Knapp got released. It's a, I call it the unofficial official report. And I had met someone and I'm like, hey, can you find anything out? I had this incident. And normally you tell people this, they look at you like, dude, what are you smoking? And I'm like, no, no, I'm good. I'm tested. And they go, and they said, well, let me see what I can do. And I had got a call. I was working, I was doing some aerospace work and I had gotten a call on my cell phone from a guy. And he said, hey, I want to investigate your incident. And I go, okay. So he did, he investigated the incident and it was very, very thorough. I mean, if you've read that it's about 10 pages long and he, I mean, he tracked down everybody. He tracked down all the people that were, the air crew that were involved. He talked to, he tracked down the Admiral. He talked, I mean, he, he, it was a pretty thorough report and I didn't think anything of it, you know, because, you know, the people were worded that's out there. So they want to do FOIA, but it was never released in a FOIA request. So I actually had the Navy call me. I'd been out of the Navy for like six years and... What's explained to people that means freedom of the information? So I got called by a public affairs person from the Navy and said, hey, is this Commander Freight? And I said, yeah. And they said, hey, do you know of any documentation on your UFO incident off the Nimitz? And I said, official. And she said, yeah. I said, no, because I knew the report existed, but to me it was an unofficial because I didn't know who, where it went. And I had a copy of it, but because it wasn't official, well, then years later I find out that the guy who actually did the report was part of the ATIP team. And I was talking to Lou Elizondo who runs that program and Lou showed me the documentation of the original, I think it was like 13 people that were part of the ATIP and they were FOIA exempt. And I'm like, well, that's kind of, well, hey, I know that guy. He's the guy that did the report, which is why it never ever came out until George got his hands on it. How does something Freedom of Information Act exempt? Obviously, DOD has the ability because I'm not a conspiracy theory person at all. I mean, I'll just tell you that. You know, I think there's reasons that the government doesn't tell the public everything and I don't speak for the government, but I think there's a good reason for that, that not everything needs to go out to the public. But most of it does. And they just, what they do is they put a clause on, hey, for this program or whatever we're doing, which would have been an ATIP program, the work that they do and what they find is not, it's not releasable through Freedom of Information Act. There's probably other avenues to get that. And then you go, well, what really is Freedom of Information? Because I got into this on a, I was talking to someone who's a conspiracy theorist and they said, well, so-and-so wrote and they're not getting any information on your event. I said, so what are they going to do? They're going to call up, you're going to put in your request for Freedom of Information. You go, here's what I want. It goes to some poor guy at the Pentagon who's like, I have no idea what this is. And he searches around, he doesn't find anything. He looks at his bud and I get an offer for you. I go, hey, Joe, you got anything on the Nimitz incident? And you go, oh, I go, okay, well, I didn't find anything. I looked. I did my due diligence, but I'm not going to spend the next six months of my life doing your research project for you. Right. So you get nothing and then you assume the government's covering up when the government really isn't. They just, you know, the guys that do the research doesn't know where it's at or doesn't have access to it. Makes sense. Jamie, we have the video. Okay, here we go. Now, explain what are we seeing and why are we seeing it in this particular shade? Okay, so we'll just kind of go around it. So if you look at the OPRs operate on the top left corner. NAR is narrow field of view, which is zoomed in. IR at the top middle, it means it's in infrared mode. So instead of seeing color, you're seeing temperature variations. And these things are extremely sensitive to in like tens of degrees. They will tell you the difference. So it'll go from black to white. So in this case, white is hot. So if you look down on the bottom left corner, it says WHT. That's white. It means white is hot. So the object that you're looking at is hotter than the sky around it. But what you also notice is there's no plumes. Now, if you're looking at an airplane, when you get closer, you'll actually see the exhaust coming out and there will be a really glowing plume. That's important as we look at the video. And then the most of the stuff on here, you really don't need to know. What you can look at is the bottom right corner, it says 19,990 and a B. That's the altitude. And if you look up in the little words where it says HDG and then BALT, it's autopilot. So it's on altitude hold, it's just flying for that. So you can go ahead and play the video. And so those two bars next to the white object, that's a passive track. So what he's done is he's commanded the FLIR to track that. So what the system does is it uses, it's actually tracking, it can track pixels. And it's just basically blocked those hot pixels, those white pixels from the black ones. And you're gonna see now, pause it real quick. So over the top, see it went to a white screen with the black object. This is a black and white TV mode. And if you look at the top, it says TV. So narrow in TV mode is actually, you can get closer than narrow in IR. It's literally narrow in IR is about medium in TV mode. So you can get closer with the TV mode. So as you look at it now, in this case, you would actually start to see stuff going on. And even in TV mode, because you get exhaust, the black exhaust that comes out, you'll usually be able to see kind of some of that coming out of the back end, you don't see anything. This thing's just sitting there. And if you look at the top where it says three right, that's the pod is looking three degrees right on the nose of the airplane. So he's just flying along the bottom numbers. Don't worry, those are time. So it's 4156. So go ahead and hit play. And what he's doing is he's going, Chad's going through all the different modes because he's like, oh, I got it. And he's gonna try and see the best video that you can get. Now there's rumors that this video is like 10 minutes long. Now what you're looking at is the entire video. Now, notice where it says 99.9. So hit pause real quick. What that means is while he's got the pod, the targeting pod, because that's his primary sensor right now, the radar is still trying to look at this object and trying to range it and the radar can't get ranging on it. So the object is doing something to say, I'm not giving you back because it's just a Doppler radar. Just like a police radar is a Doppler. It's trying to get a ranging on you and it can't do it. So when it says 99.9, the radar cannot see this object right now. It's not allowing it to get ranging. And I think that's super important, Dave, the way he explained it to me, active jamming compared to passive jamming. This is a technology that is actively jamming this system rather than something like stealth aircraft, which is the shape and the texture of the, yeah, it's because everyone thinks stealth is invisible. It's not. It's, it's just, it's a technology to, to basically make it harder for radars to see you, you know, and that's the whole thing. You know, if you look at, uh, you know, airplanes that are nose on, uh, are harder to see than airplanes at the side. It's kind of like think of a barn door. If you're looking at the whole barn door, it's really easy. See if I turn the barn door sideways, where it's really thin, it's going to be a lot harder for you to see it. So that's it. That's the easiest, most basic way to look at this. So keep going. You can play again and you can look to the airplane is still sitting at 20,000 feet. It's doing 250 knots. He's going to go through different modes and try and lock it. And, uh, it's just kind of sitting on all of a sudden as the video goes on, I think it's a minute and a half long. See it's going to try and reacquire it re centers the pod. So it's, it's slowly drifting to the left. The, the hornet is still going the same heading, just kind of hanging out and they're just filming this thing. And then when they get close, it's going to zing off the left hand side. When you see it on a full, because this, you know, you think digital, you'd be able to get a one for one copy on like, you know, when you copy your album to a cassette, you know, you lose a little quality. Well you still do in digital world and they're off, it goes to the left. And that's pretty fast to leave that field of view on the one we, we have big monitors that we look at these when they come back. So we're looking at the original tapes. So play the end of that again, please. Jimmy. So when it's taking off, how fat, when, when it just sort of like leaves the field of view and takes off to the left, how fast is that going? Uh, I would say pretty fast. It's an estimate. If we had ranging, you know, you could obviously do the triangle and go, Hey, cause we know how big the field of view is, but for something to leave the field of view that fast with the pod just staring is pretty fast. I mean, it just, it's like out of here. Like nothing that we have. No. Cause we can't, I don't care what airplane is. So let's just use the F 22 Raptor. That's probably one of the, it's probably the best airplane in the world right now. Performance wise. Um, it can't take off like that, especially if it's a hover. I mean, you're, you're talking something that's just sitting in space in the wind and then it just all of a sudden accelerates airplanes don't work that way. And it's not leaving any exhaust plume. No, notice there's none. And when you go back to the IR, even in the IR, you don't see, there's IR zoomed in and there's no, you would see a plume if that was an airplane. It's creepy how it takes off. Yeah. With active jamming, it's intelligently controlled. There's no rotors, there's no plumes, there's no exhaust, there's no tail fin. There's no tail number. This thing goes from a standstill, takes off. It's a propulsion system. We don't have in our inventory and no other nation does. That's how it's understood by the government. Now that that's what we say. If the fastest plane on earth was trying to do that same maneuver, this system would be able to track it. Yeah, well yeah, it would stay with it until it got to the limits of the pod, you know, as far as looking to the left. And you know, the radar would see it. I mean, when you get close enough, you're going to, you know, everything becomes visible because you get burned through with radar and how, how radars actually work. This one is, you know, you tell me, but this was performance beyond, I mean, it's like when we saw it disappear when it flew in front of my nose and I'm talking something, I'm within a half mile of it, looking at it and it gets in front of me and just disappears. So take, we'll just go to something that everyone knows is fast. Let's just say SR 71 that's doing Mach three, you know, the visibility is 50 miles. So even at 35 miles a minute, I'm going to be able to see this thing turn into a little dot as it goes off into the horizon for probably a minute. The thing that we saw disappeared in a second, just gone. And that's from two different angles. Remember the other airplanes, 8,000 feet above me because we, we get close to it at about 12,000 feet. So the other airplanes above me looking down and when it disappeared, I said, do you guys see it? And they said, no, it's gone. They just literally was poof.