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Andrew Wilson has participated in thousands of debates on political, cultural, and religious topics. He is the host of “The Crucible” and proprietor of its associated online school, Debate University. www.youtube.com/@The_Crucible www.rumble.com/c/TheCrucible www.thecrucible.videowww.debateuniversity.com
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Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
Prove me wrong type things.
You know, way before Charlie Kirk was.
They changed my mind.
Changed my mind.
What did Charlie say?
Prove me wrong or something like that?
It was something akin to that.
My understanding was that, essentially, TPUSA ripped that idea off.
Yeah, it's interesting.
Yeah.
And then, I think he feels a lot of responsibility for what happened with Kirk.
Is he the Mossad?
What's that?
Is he the Mossad?
Yeah, exactly.
That's so funny.
I don't know.
If you got Candace's number, we can ask her.
If we can ask her.
Candace is getting, she's getting dragged on Twitter today because she's like,
I've lived
in Connecticut.
I've never seen this much ice on trees.
And it's 30 degrees out.
And everybody's like, yeah, 30 is freezing.
Yeah, it's so funny.
Ice on trees.
Do you see all the Miss Cleo memes?
Miss Cleo?
Oh, it's so funny.
Miss Cleo.
You don't remember the Miss Cleo?
Oh, the psychic?
Yeah, the psychic.
They keep on putting the Miss Cleo memes out for Candace because she's a
psychic, you know?
That's hilarious.
It is funny.
I think this lighter just shit the bed.
Can I borrow that other one?
Thank you.
Yeah.
It's really funny.
Well, Candace has painted herself into a weird corner where everything has to
be a wild conspiracy.
Like, it has to be Bridget McCrond's a man.
Oh, yeah.
Erica Kirk killed Charlie.
It has to, like, one-up the last one, you know?
Yeah.
I was, it's really funny you came to the same conclusion that I did.
So, it's like, I've seen those conspiracy channels come up before.
And then they come up and they crash out.
And the reason is, is because, like, for her, I think she had the whole, like,
she was involved with this, right?
She was involved intricately with Kirk.
She knew him.
Yeah.
And so, that gave a lot of credibility to a lot of the things that she was
saying.
But then, once you start moving back into, like, Mandela Effect stuff and, you
know, time travel.
Time travel.
Yeah, people were like, ah.
I mean, you can do that if you're that guy, if you're Art Bell, you know, if
you want.
Well, you know, but Bell, I remember, I used to listen to Bell all the time.
He's the goat.
Oh, yeah, he was great.
That's why I got him up on the wall over there.
You remember that intro?
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Yeah, so he.
From the kingdom of Nye.
Yeah, yeah.
I remember listening to him for years when I'd drive around with my dad.
Yeah.
He was, like, it was a big deal.
And I remember the very first episode I heard from him, it was something about
the NIMH.
What's the NIMH?
The NIMH were, like, this guy called in.
He was a time traveler.
Right?
And he came back in time because his whole thing was, like, he had to stop the
weathered patterns from destroying the future because the NIMH, an alien race
of greys, had come.
And they were heating up the planet slowly to change it to be the conditionals
that were necessary for them to then live on the planet.
And, you know, Art Bell, he's always playing into it with the lunatics, you
know.
And he's, like, and does the CIA currently know that you're there doing this,
you know?
And the guy, and the dude's just, like, uh.
Yeah, Art would give you all the rope.
Oh, yeah.
You can call it, Art, I'm a werewolf.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Oh, did you ever hear the Bigfoot episode?
No.
Oh, my God.
That's the funniest episode you'll ever hear.
Really?
So, Brett Neck calls into Art Bell and talks about how he killed Bigfoot and
where he buried it.
And the guy has, it's like, I don't know if it was early trolling, like, before
trolling was trolling.
But it was, like, this guy, he was like, yep, you know, me and Timmy, we took
him out back there.
We shot him right in the chest twice.
And there were some youngins, and they spread out a little bit.
And then we, you know, we packed up the Bigfoot and buried him in the backyard.
And Bell's just like, and you said there was youngins.
The Bigfoot people are the weirdest.
Duncan Trussell and I went hunting for Bigfoot once.
We did this, I used to do this TV show for a while called Joe Rogan Questions
Everything.
And I'd be like, all right, tell me about chemtrails.
You know, and I'd go meet with all the loons and all the people that are, like,
really involved, UFO, anything like that.
And we went and hung out with the Bigfoot people.
And so we went Bigfoot hunting for, like, two days in the Pacific Northwest and
talked to all these people.
And they're all, like, the same person.
I just said it's, like, a team of unfuckable white guys.
It's, like, that's what you find.
Like, these guys are just, like, they found their calling.
It's just, like, looking for a mystery in the woods that you'll never solve.
Well, there was a guy I used to have on your podcast.
And he was huge for a long time.
And I think it still is.
Remember those missing cases?
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Yeah.
That's a big deal.
And I was always, like, any time I heard anything about that, I always was enthralled
with it.
Because some of the stories were demented.
Yeah.
You know, like, kids appearing 500 miles away and all this.
Uh-huh.
But that guy always had you edged.
Because people would always go, what do you think is going on?
You know?
And he'd go.
What was that guy's name?
I can't remember it.
But it was, like, missing...
Yeah, missing...
411?
411.
Yeah, missing 411.
I've seen him on Instagram or on Twitter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But he got all the park records, you know, and he started going through.
And he was like, there's some really weird stuff going on here for how many
people were missing
in national parks.
There is.
There is.
But the reality is, if you die in the woods, you get consumed pretty quick.
That's the reality.
That's why you don't find mountain lion skeletons.
Mountain lions are a real thing.
I've never found a dead mountain lion skeleton in all the times I've been
hunting.
Never, not once.
You'll find elk bones, you know?
You'll find stuff like that.
I found some coyote skeletons before out in the Nevada desert.
But mountain lions are a real thing.
You very, very, very, very, very rarely find a dead mountain lion.
Yeah.
And there's so many of them.
Now, think about how few people actually go, like, hiking into the deep
wilderness.
Your body just gets consumed.
Sure.
You know, there's so many animals that come along.
Rats.
All kinds of things.
Eat your bones.
Oh, yeah.
It's a free meal.
Yeah.
It's so easy.
And they can smell it for miles.
Sure.
Bears.
Yeah.
Anywhere there's wild pigs.
And then it's over.
Then there's nothing left.
Yeah.
They can smell that stuff for miles.
But it's like people always want to attach some crazy, deeper, weird, you know,
UFO Bigfoot meaning to it.
It's like, no, you're in the wild.
And nature has a whole plan for dead things.
And it does a really good job of consuming them.
Oh, yeah.
They don't last.
Not at all.
Well, that's the thing.
If you live out in the country, you see this all the time.
You know, raccoon will be around getting in someone's trash.
They'll walk out.
Bam.
Raccoon's done.
They just go throw it in the bushes.
Mm-hmm.
That's it.
That's it.
Yeah.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
And it disappears quickly.
And plants consume it.
Yeah.
That's it.
It rots.
And things eat it.
It doesn't even take that long to rot.
No.
It's just gone.
It's pretty quick.
It's pretty quick.
Have you ever seen, like, those time-lapse photos where they take a dead animal
and they let it
sit there and you watch it get consumed by maggots?
It's very quick.
Yeah.
So these poor people that go hiking, you know, like, if you go hiking and you're
by yourself
and you break an ankle and you're 15 miles in and you don't have a compass and
you're
kind of, like, roughly judging which hill you came over, and there's a lot of
people that
just get ahead of themselves and they really shouldn't be that far out there
and they just
die.
Happens all the time.
Yeah.
You know, so, like, this idea that it's, like, there's, you could, if you look
at all
the data and you try to find a pattern to it and you start imagining that there's
some
grand conspiracy, there's some watcher in the woods that's consuming people,
some demon
that's out there, you can, you can get pretty kooky with your ideas.
One of the popular theories, it's wild men.
Oh, wild men.
Wild men.
Oh, like humans?
Yeah.
Well, or some human variant that are...
That's what this guy, this 411 guy believes?
I'm not sure because he won't say.
They don't, he doesn't, he doesn't actually give his, here's what I think is
going on.
But people ask him and he's like, well, I have my theories, but he never tells
you actually
what the theories are.
Interesting.
I wonder why he doesn't want to tell.
Maybe that's why he's not more popular.
If he just came out with it, like Candace, maybe it'd be huge.
Yeah, like those guys that used to be in the 90s who were saying that we were
going underground
and killing the Nephilim.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Those guys were great.
They're going down and it's like, man, and they were giants.
They had three rows of teeth and their special forces are going down there and
taking them
out.
Yeah, there's a whole group of people that believe that there's underground
creatures that
live underground and come out at night.
And there's always been like these.
Cryptids?
Yeah, whatever they are.
Yeah.
You know, people, some people think the grays live underground.
You know, there's like, there's not a lot of mystery left, you know, outside of
places
like the Amazon, the Congo that are super deep to get to.
Not a whole lot of mystery left in terms of life.
Maybe ocean depths.
Yeah, ocean depths for sure.
That's like the whole new unexplored frontier, right?
It's ocean depths.
Yeah.
Same time I turn on the TV, it's like, look at this crazy creature.
I'm like, that doesn't exist.
And I look at it, I'm like, wait, that exists?
I saw one the other day, tweeted out.
I was like, the Mandela effect has to be real.
It was a, it's called a Siberian mule deer.
You ever seen a Siberian mule deer?
No.
They have fangs.
Oh, right.
I have seen a fang deer, I forget what they call it.
Apparently, that's the, uh, you know, do you know what elk ivories are?
Yeah.
Yeah, that's, it used to be like a tusk, like way, way back in the day.
It's so retarded looking, dude.
Yeah, the fang deer, yeah, they're weird.
It's very strange.
Yeah.
I wonder what they were there for.
Yeah, well, there's, I found a video, because I was like, no way, dude, these
things exist.
I thought I was being memed, you know, so, I don't look, and this thing is real.
So, I found a video of them fighting, and they use those things as weapons.
Oh, that makes sense.
That's the only thing that makes sense.
Like, gorillas, gorillas don't eat meat.
Yeah, they have these massive fangs.
Yeah.
You know, it's, nature's weird, so much variation, you know, there's so many
different types of life, and the fact that they all sort of synchronize, like,
this one eats that one, and that one eats this one, and this one lives there,
and that one lives there.
It's like, it's very fascinating when you really look at the, just the wide
variety of species that exist.
Well, most people don't know anything about it.
Yeah.
Like, most people have never, we live in such a comfortable world.
Mm-hmm.
That is completely guarded from everything that's out there, and it's like, if
people had a taste of out there, I think that the worldview of many, many
people would change very quickly, especially feminists.
I think that feminists would immediately stop being feminists if they just had
a taste of, like, well, you know, people actually did have to shut themselves
up at night from wolves.
Yeah.
That was a real thing.
Wolves would come in and eat you, and so you would shut yourself in, so that
that didn't happen.
Well, that's gone so far the other way that fucking retards are bringing wolves
into places.
Yeah, I know.
It is so dumb.
You know, I have a good friend.
Didn't they take it over, like, in Yellowstone or someplace?
They reintroduced wolves.
Yes.
And it just decimated the deer population?
Well, the elk population.
But that's actually arguable that that might have been a good thing in some
ways because it was getting to—elk need natural predators, and mountain lions
can only kill so many elk.
Yeah.
But what's really interesting is mountain lions kill way more elk when wolves
are around because the wolves find the mountain lions and take their elk.
And so then the mountain lions have to go kill another deer or, you know,
whatever.
Why, like, just issue more hunting elk permits, though?
Like, why do that?
Well, you have to have some natural predators in a good, healthy ecosystem.
And there's a good argument, particularly in Montana, that at one point in time
it had gotten to a point where you're going to have, like, rampant disease
because they were issuing these—they were issuing, like, unlimited or a large
amount of tags for people in the midwinter so that you can catch these elk in
deep snow and just peck them off because they were having so many of them.
And that they weren't sustainable, that they were hitting these massive
populations.
So their populations are down to, like, I want to say less than 40 percent of
what they were at their peak when they brought in the wolves.
But the problem is these wolves, like, what they did in Colorado recently is
the dumbest of all time because they brought these fucking wolves outside of Aspen.
And they took wolves from Washington State, Washington State or Oregon, but
whatever it was, these wolves from the Pacific Northwest were wolves that
already had been killing cattle.
So they captured these wolves instead of killing them, and then they relocated
them to Aspen where they're killing cattle.
So they relocated them onto my buddy's ranch.
Like, there's five of them.
And he had a cattle ranch, did he?
He doesn't have cattle on his ranch, but his fucking neighbors do, and his
neighbors are losing cattle left and right.
And so now they've killed off a couple of them, and they're trying to – it
was a disaster.
And it's because the governor, the governor's husband, he's a wildlife lover,
and he thinks it would be amazing if we had wolves in our community.
You ever talk to those old deer hunters in Michigan?
In Michigan?
Yeah, they've been pissed off for – like, every deer hunter I know in
Michigan has been pissed off who's a native for years because they all used to
shoot pheasant.
That was the big deal in Michigan was pheasant.
And then here's the story I heard.
I don't know if it's true or not, right?
But the DNR, the Department of Natural Resources, imported a bunch of western
coyotes in order to thin out the deer population because the deer population
was basically mangling all these farm crops.
Oh, boy.
And those – now, that's an all-you-can-eat buffet for a coyote in Nevada,
these ground birds that are just these fat, fat little ground birds.
And they decimated the population.
So, you'll talk to these old deer hunters.
Have you seen any pheasant?
No, shut up.
Shut up.
The interesting thing about that, though, is pheasant's an invasive species.
That's not a natural North American species either.
They brought those fuckers over.
I mean, they are delicious.
Yeah.
And it's fun to hunt them.
Well, they would always just walk those train tracks, those old abandoned train
tracks, you know.
They'd have the dogs.
Dogs kick up the pheasant.
They'd shoot them from the track.
Dog would bring it up.
That was like a Michigan pastime.
Yeah, the coyote thing's a real problem because coyotes are now – they used
to be a Western animal, and now they're in all 50 states.
Not only that, they're in virtually every city in America.
Well, they've been wiping them out in Michigan pretty good in rural areas.
Oh, yeah.
Well, what they do now is they have the GPS trackers to put them on the dogs.
Old boys will get in with AR-15s.
Those dogs will run them for 200 miles, and then they finally take a shot, and
they just will do that all winter long, man.
That's good, but it's hard to wipe them out because what they do is – you
know, when you hear coyotes calling, it's like roll call.
Like when they're – they're letting – sometimes – there's a lot of
confusion to what they're doing.
Some people think that they're letting the other coyotes know that they've
killed something, that we have food, but it's also a roll call.
And when one of the coyotes is missing, the females have more pups.
Really?
Yeah, some weird natural reaction.
Also, their natural enemy is gray wolves, and when they evolved, they evolved
to – when the gray wolves kill them, because the gray wolves don't breed with
coyotes, but coyotes do breed with red wolves.
That's why you have these, like, coy wolves on the East Coast.
Just like coyotes.
Because a coyote is a wolf.
It's a wolf.
It's just a small wolf.
And so their natural inclination is when they're getting chased, they move to a
new area, and then they have even more pups.
So that's how they've spread out through the entire country.
So if you go back to, like, the turn of the century, like, the 1900s, coyotes
were exclusively a Western animal.
Yeah.
Now they're in New York City.
Yeah, they're everywhere.
Which is crazy.
They have them in Central Park.
They have fucking coyotes running around Central Park.
Some lady this morning posted on X a mountain lion in San Francisco sitting on
a porch in the city of San Francisco, a big one, just sitting there.
It's like –
Just having a good time.
Well, that's just because California has the dumbest fucking laws when it comes
to those things.
Yeah.
Well, they have terrible gun laws, too.
They have terrible laws.
They have terrible laws, period.
They have terrible laws, terrible everything.
Terrible politicians.
Yeah.
You know, it's a shame, too.
Like, I grew up in Santa Rosa, and that's the most beautiful area.
Yeah.
The Napa Valley area is the most beautiful area on planet Earth.
Yeah.
The weather's always perfect.
It's January 15th.
It might as well be July 15th.
Yeah.
Right?
It's always perfect.
It's always gorgeous, and they fucked it all up.
They fucked it all up.
They fucked it all up.
Yeah.
And they fucked it up real bad, too.
Oh, it's almost unfixable now, especially, like, San Francisco area.
Like, the whole Pacific Northwest is almost unfixable.
It's like they double down, and they keep going.
Like, Seattle now is a communist mayor.
Yeah.
Who's been living with their parents.
Well, New York, they all got communist mares.
Yeah.
Black Lives Matter had—they were—they're head organizers.
They were communists, devout communists.
Like—
Until it came to buying property with Black Lives Matter money.
Yeah.
What's happening with that?
Well, then they're very much capitalistic.
How come they're not in trouble?
I don't understand that.
Like, they spent millions of dollars of that money on real estate.
Yeah.
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What's going on?
No idea.
I have no idea why.
Well, I don't know why the heads of many of these organizations aren't being
rounded up and summarily arrested.
Yeah.
I mean, we're watching these.
I've been covering the riots nonstop.
I'm sorry, protests.
The completely organic protests, which are totally organic.
Yeah.
And it's been interesting to watch.
I was watching one the other day.
We were live, and it was Don Lemon, and he had showed up in Minnesota.
And the first thing Don Lemon does, right?
I hate Don Lemon, by the way.
But the first thing he does...
He is one of the dumbest motherfuckers that has ever gotten on television.
He's terrible.
First thing he does, he drives up in this car.
He's in the back seat, and he jumps out of the car, and he has this shit-eating
lemon smile on his face.
And he runs over with Starbucks to these people, and he's like, here you go.
Yeah.
And then he jumps back in the car, right?
And they drive off.
Now, here's what's interesting about this.
He comes back, and he's in there with the protesters, you know what I mean?
And he's interviewing them.
Most of the protesters are saying, we're coming from out of town.
We're from this state.
I'm from two states away.
I'm from three states away, you know, for this totally organic protest.
Well, the cops, what they start doing, they have these guardrails on the
sidewalk in front of the ICE facility.
And there's gaps inside of that barrier.
And so they pull their police cruisers in just to fill those gaps so that they
stay behind the barrier.
And Lemon's like, why would they do that?
Why would they keep us compressed, you know, behind this barrier?
And I'm thinking, because you just stopped your car in the middle of the street
to run across the road
and give these guys Starbucks, you idiot.
You know, they want to keep the roadway clear so that they can get their people
in and out.
You literally stopped your car in the middle of the road, ran across the street
to give these people Starbucks,
and then got back in your car.
And you're like, why is it that they're trying to keep us from getting into the
road?
You know, I'm like, what are you talking about?
I just couldn't believe it.
I was like, what?
It's amazing when these people that are so smug, where they're protected by a
large organization by CNN,
and then they get fired.
And then they get, they're basically like a dog, like Carl, getting released
into the woods.
And then they have to fend for themselves.
And you see them in the world of podcasting where you don't have anybody
writing things for you.
And you have to express your own opinions.
You're like, oh, this is the real you.
It turns out, you're a moron.
Well, I didn't know.
Whoa.
You know, the whole time, imagine you're thinking the whole time.
You know, I never thought I'd be an entertainer.
I didn't think I'd do anything with podcast.
Never.
Never in a million years.
I never would have thought that.
You were a, what were you, an engineer or a robotics guy?
Robotics mechanic, yeah.
A robotics mechanic.
Yeah.
How did you get involved in that?
Well, I was a, I was a gunsmith for years and, um, there, there's no real
applicable skills outside of that for anything.
Actually, there, it doesn't really carry over in anything.
It's really its own thing and a bluing things like it just doesn't carry over.
Um, a friend of mine said, Hey, look, cause I told him, I was like, I need a
job.
Um, you know, I, I'm, I'm not making it.
What do you, what do you think?
He's like, you know, you should apply to be an industrial mechanic.
And I was like, I don't know much about it.
You know, he's like, well, just go apply.
So I did took nap two tests.
And so, uh, the guy was like, well, I want to hire you at a level three, which
was high, high, you know, it was like mid range.
Wasn't the highest, wasn't the lowest.
And I was like, damn.
Okay.
You know, what's the pay?
He's like, it was like 30 an hour.
You know, that to me was, was life changing.
So I took the job and I got, I didn't know what the hell I was doing, but they
trained me up well.
And then, um, there was some robots on the floor and I started working on those.
And then from there they trained me in robotics.
And so, uh, it was, it was all done on site.
Like what kind of automation, like automation and it was all food related, food
related, all food robots.
You know, so we weren't dealing with Johnny five.
We were dealing with like vacuum systems and ovens and, uh, various robots,
which were associated with those.
Like for instance, there was a packaging machine that would just, all it would
do is form boxes.
That's all it did.
It just, that's it.
But it would form, you know, a thousand boxes a minute.
And it was, it was a giant robot and it had a huge sequence of functions on it.
You know, but when people think robot, they always think humanoid, but almost
no robot is, is in any way humanoid at all.
Right.
You know, they're, they're, that's just not what they're for.
It is weird, right?
That we think of robots as like movie robots.
We think of iRobot.
Yeah.
If, if you came across a robot in a factory, you would have no idea it was a
robot.
You'd be like, what the hell was that?
So how did you go from that to debating people online?
Uh, COVID.
So the, yeah, the lockdowns happened and I was laid off.
The, all the food plants in Michigan were shut down, especially the meat plants.
And that's where I was.
I was in the meat plants and, uh, and they all shut down because of the draconian
restrictions
of one Gretchen Whitmer and, um, anyway, while she was out with, you know, on a
boat partying
with, uh, you know, with her honey, we were all locked out of work.
Right.
So familiar story.
Yeah.
We had the stay at home orders and I would argue with these dumb liberals on
Facebook and,
uh, and they, oh man, they pissed me off.
And so I started crashing their panels and I would debate with them and, um,
you know,
I had a lot to say and those things started to become more and more popular and
they
would move over to YouTube.
People would clip it.
And then I started getting invited on to do debates with other people.
And I didn't know who these people were.
It wasn't my world.
Like, I didn't know who any of these podcasters were, you know, stuff like that.
I'd listen to it maybe occasionally online, but like, I, I couldn't have told
you who
like Vosh was or destiny or any of these people.
Like, I didn't know who any of them were.
Um, and I didn't care to me.
It was just some other dumb, smug liberal, you know?
So, um, that's where I got my start.
I never would have foreseen at all that I'd be sitting here with you.
That's so, well, I never would have foreseen I would have been here either.
It's weird, huh?
Yeah.
Oh, it's weird.
Very weird.
And I'll never get used to it.
No.
People walk over and they're like, you're Andrew Wilson.
And I'm like, I'm fucking nobody, you know what I mean?
But it's nice to meet you, you know, shake their hand.
You have a chat with them.
Uh, I'll never get used to it.
No, you probably shouldn't.
It's probably better to not get, I'm not used to it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's probably better to not be used to it.
Keep you sane.
And maybe keep you humble.
Yeah.
You need something.
You need something to keep you humble.
We all know people that did not have something that kept them humble and they
lost their way.
The wheels fall off.
Yeah.
Those are marbles.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Especially as you get more and more famous, it becomes more and more unmanageable.
I was, I feel like I, I'm pretty well grounded, uh, due to the fact that, um, I
didn't come
from a political background.
There's no famous people in my family, you know, there's just none of that.
And so I feel like the grounding's always there because, uh, you know, even,
even from
the family, you get the call, like from, from my brother, for instance, like he's
been
calling me the, I don't know if you can say the F slur here, so I won't, but he's
been
calling me.
Yeah.
He's been, you know, he's been like the, the phone call since I was 15.
What are you doing?
Faggot has not changed.
Good.
It has not changed.
You know, I was at 42.
He's a happy birthday.
Faggot.
That's normal.
Yeah.
I remember you were having a conversation.
I think it was on Pierce Morgan, who is the best cat wrangler in the business.
That's what he does.
He cat wrangles.
I just talked to him briefly.
Is he okay?
On it.
Well, that's what I asked him.
I just said, yeah, I sent him a DM and I was like, Hey man.
No, no, no, he fell.
Yeah, he fell.
And really fucked himself up.
And it was the hip.
Yeah.
And at his age, the hip, you know, you don't want to, nothing with the hip.
Yeah.
Every time I see anybody who's 60s, they get the hip injury, it's bad.
Yeah.
It's not good.
I think they, they think your lifespan at post hip surgery is like 10 years.
Yeah.
It's right.
And that, he'll probably be better than that.
He will.
And I think he's mobile.
Oh, that's good.
He's mobile.
But I asked him.
But they're really good at hip replacements now.
I was like, what's, you know, are you, are you doing?
He's like, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm doing okay.
And, and I was like, don't fuck around with the hips, dude.
It's crazy that he had to have a hip replacement.
Like how bad was that fall?
Uh, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know what the details of it were, but.
I felt like a sack of spuds, he wrote.
Wound up needing a new hip after fracturing the neck of his femur and is
recovering from
surgery.
In addition to being on crutches for six weeks, he won't be allowed to take any
long haul flights
for at least 12 weeks.
He tripped on a small step inside of a London restaurant.
Wow.
Revolving in the tumble.
You think he was drunk?
He could have been a little fired up.
A little drunk?
Well, he's also, you know, not the most fit or agile guy in the world.
True.
You know?
Yeah.
He's only two years older than me.
No way.
Yeah.
Really?
Mm-hmm.
Isn't that crazy?
Yeah, damn.
Yeah.
Some people don't take care of themselves.
Yeah, he got, he got the crack.
Yeah, I got to quit these.
But yeah, he got the crack on the, on the hip.
And I was like, man.
Do you think that American spirits are better than Marlboro's for you?
Probably.
Yeah.
But they taste like shit.
Do they?
Oh, they're terrible.
Is there a difference?
Yeah.
You really like the Marlboro taste?
Yeah, I do.
You don't think you'd get used to American spirits?
I think I could.
I've been trying the Cigarellos.
What are those?
Those have been helpful.
Like the little mini cigarette cigars.
Oh, yeah.
Ron White used to smoke those.
Yeah.
He just quit totally.
He went to a hypnotist, quit instantaneously.
But those are loaded with nicotine.
Like way more nicotine than a cigarette.
He was smoking those.
Yeah, good.
What are those little tins?
We have those.
What are those tins, Jamie?
Do you know what they are?
It's like a famous cigar company.
Sells tins of these little tiny cigars.
And it's great if you don't have the time to smoke this.
Yeah.
Like you get out of a flight, you just want to have a small.
But he inhales these motherfuckers like a cigarette.
That's brutal, dude.
That'll do you in.
And then washes it down with whiskey.
Well, he doesn't drink anymore either.
He quit drinking.
Yeah.
I think he went through it.
That was always in his bit, though.
He was always up there smoking and drinking.
And I always thought, I love that.
Well, he did it.
He did it until the wheels fell off.
And then the drinking was the big one.
You know, he went to a doctor.
And the doctor's like, you're going to die.
Yeah.
Like, your liver is not in good shape.
Like, if you back off now, you'll probably live.
If you don't, you're not.
You got, like, a few years left.
On alcoholics, too, they have it.
I don't know if he was one or not.
He might have just been, like, a heavy social drinker.
But, like, real alcoholics, that's no way to live.
No.
I mean, they stink.
They're, like, I mean, kind of everything about a real alcoholic is just they
look completely unwell.
They're just kind of mangled, you know?
Yeah.
It's a weird disease, too.
And that addiction is one that you can't quit.
You can't just cold turkey.
You'll die.
You'll die.
There's only a couple of things that will just kill you if you quit right away.
Yeah.
And alcohol is one of them, which is really crazy because it gets integrated
into your biological system where you need it to stay alive.
Your body's like, okay, we're going to use this for fuel.
We're going to use this to function.
Yeah, they've been weaning people off alcohol with beer for centuries.
Is that what they used, beer?
Yeah, they used beer.
Interesting.
They would just go, okay.
Well, it was pretty common to drink beer and ale with dinner.
Right.
They just weenie off with beer.
That makes sense.
They knew.
They knew hundreds of years ago books on how alcohol, you know, what are they,
consumption or whatever they called it.
It killed you if you just, if you just quit, if you were an alcoholic.
And so they'd weenie off with beer.
I wonder when they started making hard liquor.
Because you would imagine like fermented things like wine and beer were like
the first things that people consumed.
I think it's been around for thousands, I mean several thousand years.
I wonder.
I wonder like how they figured it out.
I mean the biggest, the biggest, what was it, the biggest distributor in Europe
of wine was the Catholic Church.
Well, wine has certainly been around forever.
But like what about hard liquor?
Jamie, put that into our sponsor, Perplexity.
When was the first known?
I mean we don't really know because there's so much weird shit about history.
But like what was the first in like documented hard liquor?
Like whiskey, vodka, shit like that.
That's the stuff that kills you.
If you die from beer, boy, you're fucking, you're going hard.
Like Shane Gillis will sit here on a podcast and drink 16 Bud Lights.
First alcohol drinks were fermented things like beer, wine, mead.
Okay.
Thousands of years before true liquor.
Okay.
First recognizable liquor appears when people begin to distill.
Archaeological evidence shows fermented drinks.
Okay.
That's around 7,000 BCE.
So clear of as a true alcohol distillation, Chinese rice beer distillates by
about 800 BCE.
Yeah.
So a couple thousand years.
A couple thousand years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Wine into strong spirits.
The Arab alchemists.
Al-cool.
Oh, interesting.
Using the term al-cool, the root of alcohol.
Well, and they used alcohol as base for alchemy too.
That was a base for trying to transmute metal.
I wonder if they were ever successful.
They were never successful.
Nothing?
No.
It seems like a crazy thing to waste so much time on trying to turn lead into
gold.
I mean, there was whole kingdoms spent trying to figure out how to do this.
Wild.
And it's just like, and they never, I mean, you think about it, it makes sense,
right?
If you're the first one, if you're the one who knows, like you can just create
as much wealth for yourself as you want.
Oh, yeah.
It's just amazing that they kept trying.
Must have been someone saying that they got it.
I got it, dude.
Just give me some money.
Oh, there was tons of frauds.
Yeah.
There was tons of frauds who were alchemists, who, you know, they were that
century's version of a snake oil salesman.
Yeah, of course, we can turn, and there was ones even in the 90s that were like,
we can now turn, you know, base metals into gold.
I think there's something now where they can make some gold, but I think it
takes an incredible amount of energy.
It costs more to make than it's worth.
Right.
I think it's one of them deals.
Is that a fact?
I feel like I've read something like that fairly recently.
But it's, here's a weird one.
Why gold?
Like, why does anybody give a fuck about this metal that you can't even use?
There's not much of it.
Right.
That's true.
It's very, what they're saying is 90% of all the gold ever discovered still is
in circulation.
Right.
Yeah.
Well, China just found a huge vein of gold, an enormous amount.
But, I mean, when you say enormous, it's like relative.
Yeah.
Because I think the entire world's supply of gold will fit inside of a football
field.
Yeah, there's not much of it.
Yeah.
It's very, I mean, and very little of it is worth a lot.
I mean, even if you think a pirate's treasure chest, you know, it's not
actually that much gold.
Right.
So, it's, yeah, it's a box of gold.
It's extremely valuable.
And also, you can do things with it you can't do with other metals.
The same thing with silver, you know, silver.
Scientists mimicking the Big Bang accidentally turned lead into gold.
Yeah.
So, this is the thing.
But, I mean, again, I think mimicking the Big Bang, like, what are they using?
A particle collider?
Like, what are they doing?
Okay.
How'd they do it?
How to steal a proton.
Protons found the nucleus of an atom.
So, extremely small amounts.
In fact, a total of some 29 trillionths of a gram they made.
Okay.
Smashing lead atoms into each other.
So, it is a particle collider, I guess.
Working on the ALICE experiment and the Large Hadron Collider.
Yeah, there it is.
In Switzerland, incidentally produced small amounts of gold.
You just need a particle collider.
You just need a particle collider.
That's all.
No big deal.
No big deal.
You just build it into a whole mountain.
And now they're building a second one, they said.
Yeah.
Building into a new mountain.
Right.
Well, there was one they were putting, during the Clinton administration,
they were building a particle collider somewhere in the middle of America.
I'm trying to figure out where it was.
I'm certain there's already more than one.
Oh, there's many particle colliders.
But I'm certain there's ones that are even probably larger and hidden than the
one that's
currently there.
Really?
You think so?
Yeah.
Oh, for sure.
What do you think they're doing with them?
Well, I mean, the military applications for that are, like, they're enormous.
The idea that you could make, like, some kind of particle weapon, you know, or
something
like this.
Oh, right, right, right.
Yeah, there's no way that the U.S. military is going to let scientists have a
gadget like
that somewhere that they don't have complete control over.
There's no way.
I wonder, because I don't know what kind of military applications you would
have for particle
colliders.
I mean, for sure.
Big explosions, right?
There's probably, yeah, but you're just, you've got a giant loop, and you're slinging.
Smashing things together, right?
Yeah.
So, I mean, what are you doing?
Like a hair under the speed of light.
You smash things together?
You can make them go boomy boom, right?
Kind of.
Well, the real concern with the Large Hadron Collider is they were going to
create many
black holes that were going to eat their way through the Earth, that you wouldn't
be able
to stop them.
They would just, like, slide through the Earth.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I heard that.
I heard they were concerned they were going to open up a portal to a different
dimension.
I've heard, like, I've heard all sorts of things.
Yeah, we changed our timeline.
We're on the new timeline, you know, the whole nine yards.
I've heard it all.
I'm just saying that anything, it's just been my experience when I look through
the historic
record, that if there's any scientific gadget out there that looks like it has
the potential
to make something go boom, the United States military has a version of it
somewhere.
Yeah, that makes sense.
That makes sense.
But for whatever reason, they abandoned this one during the Clinton
administration.
I don't remember why they abandoned it, but you could, people can, if they have
access to
the area where it's at, can still go inside of it and see, like, what they
started to build,
but they never did.
But it would have been larger than the Large Hadron Collider.
I want to say it's in Georgia.
I don't remember, though, but it was going to be an enormous particle collider.
And for some reason, they just stopped funding to this thing.
But...
Well, they're talking about funding another one that's twice the size of the
one that they
have now.
They say that they need more room to smash more particles together.
What are they trying to do?
I have no idea.
Like, that is way outside of my domain.
I can tell you, probably the same things you've heard, right?
Is they're trying to smash small particles together to see what happens.
That's what the, kind of the official story is.
But it's funny, because every time a new story comes out, it's like, scientists
smash this
together with this, and this happens.
And I'm always like, okay, but what does that mean?
And you never get any of that, right?
Right.
This one was in Texas.
Oh, it was in Texas?
Yeah.
Yeah, the Clinton.
Okay, that's it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Spent $2 billion on it and abandoned it.
Yeah, I wonder.
See if you can find some images of it.
Yeah, it's outside of Dallas.
Oh, it is outside of Dallas.
Okay.
Abandoned superconducting super collider site in 2008.
Wow.
I wonder if you could buy it.
That'd be fucking awesome.
Get Brogan's own particle collider.
I mean, there's nothing there.
It's just concrete.
Yeah.
Let me buy it.
Just finish it.
What's the big deal?
Like that weird time machine out in the desert?
That was really funny.
Let me set up an archery range inside of it.
Confirm this stuff last week.
Department of War confirms plans to scale direct energy weapons.
Did you see that thing that China made?
Why would they need a hydro collider though, right?
Or, you know, a particle collider?
Well, because they want to make stuff go boom.
Yeah.
Direct energy weapons.
Yes, Department of War has direct energy weapons.
Yes, we are scaling them.
Wow.
Conspiracy theorists went wild over this.
Oh, of course.
I told you.
Well, that was a lot of people.
I want my Fallout rifle though.
I do.
I want my plasma rifle.
Right.
I do.
Like if they have plasma rifles, you're going to buy one, right?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, for sure.
You'd probably get a tax stamp.
It'd probably be like a lengthy thing to get through.
Oh, for sure.
I'm glad you're a gun guy.
Because I wanted to bring up this whole thing with this guy, Pretty.
Yeah.
And I haven't talked about it.
We haven't done a podcast since that guy got killed.
But that whole thing, there's a lot of people that don't understand what's
going on.
And why riots only in Minneapolis, and why riots in the place where there's an
ungodly amount of fraud that has been discovered.
Coincidentally, right around the same time.
Exactly.
Like instantaneously afterwards, the narrative completely changes.
Everybody forgets about the fraud.
Now, all anybody cares about is ICE and fascists and Nazis.
Yeah.
And you know what a color revolution is.
Of course.
And for people that don't, it's a coordinated effort to cause chaos.
And this is a very coordinated thing.
The idea that this is an organic protest, that these riots are organic, is
nonsense.
It's provably nonsense, because now they have access to the signal chats.
So they know that these people...
Cam Higby, by the way.
Yes.
He's been on the front lines of this.
The Crucible has been a big supporter of that effort, my channel.
I will often snipe his coverage while it's going on, send my audience over to
send in super chats in order to keep this guy going.
I think that that work is critical.
Yes.
It's critical.
And there's not that many people doing it anymore because of how dangerous it
has become.
Yes.
And so I'm a big supporter of that.
It doesn't mean I agree with everything he says politically, but what he's
doing on the ground there needs to happen.
Right.
You need to understand that this isn't organic, regardless of how you feel.
I don't feel like that guy should have been shot, but I understand what
happened.
And what happened was chaos.
So, first of all, it wasn't ICE.
People need to understand that.
It was Customs Border Patrol people.
So they were brought in to assist ICE.
And they're telling this lady to stand away.
And then this cop gets very aggressive and shoves her.
You have to understand the situation that they're in.
Right.
And this is not making an excuse for any of it.
But you have to just to put it into context.
These people are getting harassed outside of any hotel they're at.
People blow horns.
They try to smash into the hotel.
They dox them.
They dox them.
That's why they're wearing masks.
It's a coordinated effort.
I'm not saying that guy should have shoved that guy.
I don't think he should have.
Or that woman.
I don't think he should have.
And then pepper sprayed.
And then the guy who got shot, Preddy, he steps in, which is if you know
anything about concealed carry.
If you are a concealed carry holder and you are carrying not just a pistol but
two full magazines as well, you do not ever physically engage with someone.
You also are supposed to carry your license on you and you're supposed to have
ID on you.
All right?
And you're trained specifically for this, by the way.
I was a CPL instructor for years.
Okay.
So you know about it all.
And the thing is, there's a framework here.
If you don't mind if I add your framework.
The framework here is this is a mathematical formula.
So I've been following these extremely closely live and looking at how this is
done.
Let's go backwards in time.
You remember what was going on in California.
Nobody died in California.
There was an ice raid on a Home Depot and they went nuts and they started
smashing police cars.
They were starting fires.
Right.
This was not over somebody dying.
And now the narrative, they're trying to make the narrative shift.
The Gestapo is in here, you know, murdering American citizens.
Well, what was going on in California then?
Because there was no American citizens getting murdered there.
What was going on there was they did an ice raid in a Home Depot, which anybody
who's been to California knows that, you know, there's it used to be that you
drive down the street and they would all hang out in front of the Home Depot
and you'd say two.
Right.
And they'd hop in the truck and you would, you know, they would go.
Yeah, they were day laborers.
Right.
So it didn't surprise me that they were there doing daily raids.
Okay.
That doesn't surprise me a bit.
And they all went ballistic.
Now, here's what was very curious about the coverage of that.
And I had a debate with a couple of leftists on this.
What I saw was what looked to me to be a police stand down order.
There was people who were breaking into, I don't remember if it was an Amco or
a 7-Eleven, but they were busting into it.
And the cops were on the side corner watching this go down and do anything.
They didn't do anything about it.
Right.
Okay.
If it got too rowdy, they'd clear it out.
And then they let them continue.
It looked like a stand down order.
Like, you don't involve yourself.
Well, what I think these guys have figured out is a mathematical formula, and
it works like this.
If the local police are not going to protect the federal buildings, then it's
left to the federal police to do this.
Right.
In this case, ICE is going to protect its own buildings.
The FBI is going to protect its own buildings.
If the local police aren't going to protect it and it's surrounded, then who
does the protection then?
And this is why Trump, he unleashes the National Guard, but where?
To those federal buildings.
To protect those federal buildings.
That was the whole point of it.
And basically, anytime he's unleashed the National Guard that I've seen, it's
two federal buildings to protect them.
And so the mathematical formula works like this.
The longer it is that protesters are engaging with federal officers whose job
is not to do basic street cleanup of thugs.
That's the local PD's job.
The chances that there's an incident, which is going to be a bad incident, is
going to occur.
So basically, the longer you're there, the more attrition there is, the more
engagements you have with these federal officers over time.
Eventually, there's going to be something which is out of pocket that happens
or something which is escalatory that happens, and they're banking on that.
And that's why ICE is out in front of these, or not ICE, the Antifa people are
still out in front of the ICE buildings in front of many states night after
night after night.
And it's designed specifically to make sure it's just a math formula, right?
The longer we're here, and the less the local PD involves itself, the more
chance of incident between federal officers and us.
You're knocking steel against Flint.
Yep.
Waiting for the fire.
You're waiting for sparks.
And in this particular instance, this guy clearly had been very involved.
I don't know if he was a part of the signal chats, but when you go to what's
supposed to be a peaceful protest, and you're fully armed like that, with two
magazines, it's kind of crazy.
Right?
Like, why do you need so many bullets?
Now the lives are all pro-Second Amendment too.
That is wild.
That's absolutely wild, which I'm for.
He had every right.
He didn't last month, but okay.
I like it.
I like where it's going.
I like that, because that's kind of a trap.
Did you see what MSNBC did to his image?
Yeah.
Where they gussied it up?
Basically, they did the opposite of what CNN did to me.
You know, CNN during the COVID times turned me green, and they made me ugly and
looked like I was dying.
And they made him handsome.
Yeah.
So people would be more sympathetic to him getting shot, which is kind of wild.
Like, are ugly people less valuable to MSNBC?
Less marketable.
That is crazy to me.
Like, look at the difference.
Yeah.
Look at the difference.
They shortened up his face.
They gave him a little bit of a tan.
They widened his face a little bit, it seems like.
They just made him a little handsomer.
Yeah.
A little hotter.
They gave him a bit of that Chad jaw, didn't they?
They shrunk his nose a little, too, didn't they?
Yeah, they did.
They shrunk his nose.
Gave him a little bit of a handsome jaw.
So he looks like an American-
Even made him, if you look at the shoulders, it even looks like they may have
plumped up the shoulders there a bit.
A little bit.
Yeah, the one on the right looks like he's a little plumper.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, they changed the tone of the color.
Wild.
I mean, they changed his fucking teeth, man.
Communist news network.
Look, they gave him veneers.
Yeah.
Look at the difference in his teeth.
He's a much more handsome guy.
Like, that one on the right is like the handsome brother.
And the one on the left is like, fuck!
Yeah.
Why couldn't I look like my goddamn brother?
Yeah, the one on the right, they were twins and he took more of the protein.
Right.
That was what happened.
The thing is, it's like, this doesn't surprise me, by the way.
This is what's going on.
And this is a well-orchestrated, well-crafted thing.
Yeah.
And the signal chats prove that.
But we knew it anyway.
Yes.
Involving government, by the way.
Yes.
Allegedly, at least, involving Minnesota state government.
Well, it involves waltz.
Yes.
So that's not alleged.
Right.
That's not alleged.
It's not alleged that it involves waltz.
It's not alleged that it involves fray.
Right.
Well, what is alleged is the allegations of fraud, of course.
But there would be a reason why you would want to distract from all that fraud.
Sure.
And that would motivate you to do something along these lines.
So let's go back to the instance.
So you've got these cops that are on, these CBP guys that are on high alert,
right?
There's a lot of tension.
People are screaming.
If you're in an environment like that all day, like I've never been a police
officer, but
I was a security guard.
And when I was, I was a security guard for Great Woods.
And by the way, I'm not comparing this in any way, but I'm just explaining my
mentality when
I was there.
It was very much us versus them.
It was a small group of guys that were working at, I worked at Great Woods
Center for the Performing
Arts in Mansfield, Massachusetts.
It's a concert venue in Mansfield.
And this was when I was fighting.
So it was me and a bunch of guys from my Taekwondo team got hired to be
security guards.
One of the guys came and said, "Hey, you guys want to get a job working as a
security guard?
It's great.
You get to see concerts."
And it was like a good pay.
And, you know, I was doing a bunch of random jobs back then while I was
competing just to
sort of pay bills.
And I said, "Yeah, okay.
What do I have to do?"
And they're like, "It's nothing.
You just go there and you work."
First day on the job, I go there.
This guy had stolen one of the security golf carts.
So there's this dude named Alleycat.
He was the head guy of security.
He was a fucking character.
Hilarious.
His main dream was to open up a bar.
Alleycats, libations, and victuals.
He had this whole dream of just a real character.
But this guy was a hardcore motherfucker.
And they caught the guy who stole this golf cart, tacked him to the ground, and
he was
beating him in the face with a walkie-talkie.
This was my first day on the job.
So I'm like, "Okay, so this is what we're doing."
And we kind of became like almost like cops for this place.
But there was very much an us versus them mentality.
And it turns out it was a lot more involved than I ever thought it was.
And then one day I was at a Neil Young concert.
I was working the Neil Young concert and riots broke out.
There was fire.
It was cold out.
And there was like a grassy area.
So there was like a lawn.
So it was like there's the inside, not inside.
It was like an outdoor concert venue.
But there was a roofed part of it.
And then the back of it was like this lawn area that was in the back.
And these guys had started bonfires up there.
And we were supposed to go in there and break up the bonfires.
And then my friend Larry, who is like one of the most mild-mannered guys you
would ever want to meet.
But, you know, an elite black belt.
He gets in a fight with this guy.
And some guy pushes him and he knocks this guy down.
And I'm like, "Okay, chaos is broken out.
Let's get the fuck out of here."
And I used to wear a hoodie.
I used to carry a hoodie so I could just zip up the hoodie over my security
outfit and like, "Bye!"
Because I knew there was going to come a time where I was like, "I'm not
getting shot, stabbed, killed, whatever, stomped to death for 20 bucks an hour
or whatever the fuck I was getting."
So I wound up leaving that day.
But there was a very – and I remember very clearly like, "Oh, this is
probably what happens with cops times a million."
Like you develop this us versus them because it was very much us.
We would meet up at the beginning of our shift.
We would all talk about what's going down.
Mostly we were catching people that were bringing in alcohol.
Like women in their purses would, you know, like some Carly Simon or something
would be playing.
They'd sneak in a bottle of wine, you know.
James Taylor, you know.
There was a lot of that.
And so we'd have like literal fucking trash cans filled with bottles of wine
and liquor at the end of the night.
We would get to keep them.
We'd take them home.
And so this us versus them –
Well, that's an iceberg.
It was kind of fun.
Yeah, that's a nice perk.
Yeah.
Also, I was illegal to drink.
I was only 19 at the time.
But –
An even nicer perk?
Yeah.
It was very clearly us versus them.
And the tensions were very high.
Yeah.
Like whenever some weird shit went down, everybody puffed up their chest and
everybody was ready to throw down.
And I was like, "This job is not good."
But it educated me.
I was like – and in my mind I was like, "Okay, this must be like this when
you're a police officer again times a million."
That – think of what's going on.
Wasn't that why they have their codes, right?
They have the – they have their oaths they take and then they have their
little codes to each other too.
Exactly.
Exactly.
But I wouldn't – I don't blame them.
I don't blame them either.
Like it seems completely – there's a certain wisdom to this.
Like, "Hey, look, that could be me."
A hundred percent.
And so if it's you, I'm going to be right there with you.
A hundred percent.
And then if it's me, you're going to be right there with me.
I get it.
Also, there's a tremendous amount of social media content that anybody could
access at any given time where a lot of these dorks are calling for violence.
You know, it's just – it's all over the place.
You could find it.
The least likely people that would ever be involved in any sort of an altercation
are on TikTok calling for violence.
We've got to kill these motherfuckers.
We've got to shoot these motherfuckers.
And these guys are out there in the middle of that.
All right?
So tensions are high as fuck.
And they're getting screamed at all the time.
They're on red alert.
They're wearing vests.
They're carrying guns.
Well, their wives are getting called and threatened.
And they're saying they're going to rape their kids.
Exactly.
And they're saying that they're going to brutalize their family members.
Exactly.
And they call in the middle of the night and they whisper to them, "How's your
dad such-and-such doing?"
You know?
And just cryptic things like that and let it go.
Uh-huh.
Exactly.
And this is very coordinated.
It's very coordinated and organized.
And the way they find out all their information is very creepy.
So, again, I don't think this guy should have pushed that lady.
I mean, the way he did it was very violent.
She was a small woman and he shoved her very violently to the ground.
Then this other guy, Preddy, gets in between them.
Okay?
Which, again, if you are a concealed carry holder is a giant no-no.
You do not fucking do that.
You do not engage with law enforcement when you're armed.
You shouldn't engage with anyone.
Ever.
Ever.
I mean...
You should be avoiding...
You should be trained to avoid conflict.
Yes.
That's the whole thing.
Yes.
If you're armed, you move into that next level of you need to really be
avoiding conflict.
You're not supposed to be in bars drinking.
Exactly.
You should be, you know, at big parties and things like this where violent
things can occur.
Exactly.
You know, you can take it to church.
Defend the church.
Yeah.
Other than that...
Yeah.
Like, you're supposed to be avoiding conflict.
Exactly.
So, he gets in between the officer and this woman, puts his hands on the
officer, and then
he gets pepper sprayed.
They go to the ground.
There's a lot of scrambling going on.
Now, you have to understand what happens when you get pepper sprayed, okay?
I've never been pepper sprayed, but I did get tear gassed once during Fear Factor.
We did a Fear Factor stunt where these people had to...
I forget what they had to do, but we had built this...
There was like a structure, and they were inside the structure, and they
released tear
gas, and I got hit with it.
It's pretty brutal, but...
It's painful.
Yeah, it sucks.
And you can't breathe.
You can't breathe.
Yeah.
Your eyes swell up.
Your nose starts running like crazy.
Yeah.
And that shit stays on your clothes, too.
You don't think well when that happens.
So, this guy's clearly not thinking well, and he can't see, and then they're on
him,
right?
So, they're on him, and then one guy, whether he yells out he's got a gun or
grabs the gun
first, I'm not sure, but he has a gun.
So, they see his gun in the middle of the scramble.
The guy pulls his gun out and moves off.
Now, this is where it gets weird.
I believe the gun was a SIG P320.
A SIG P320 is known for having accidental discharges.
It has a reputation for it.
It has a very specific type of striker.
It doesn't have a safety the way some other guns do.
And you can have negligent discharges with SIGs.
Now, is the P320, is that a hammered model?
Yes.
It's not a striker fire.
No, wait a minute.
No, no.
It is a striker fire.
Let's pull it up, because I know the 365 is built very differently.
The P320 breaks cleaner.
Yeah.
I thought the P320 had a hammer, was double action and single action.
And then...
You might be right.
I didn't think it was a striker fire.
Most of the P models are not striker fires that I'm aware of.
I could be wrong.
Well, the P365 is definitely different than the P320.
Yeah.
They have different striking mechanisms.
They're known for accidental discharges.
Okay.
I can't tell if that's a hammer underneath the slide.
Well, let's just...
What is the trigger mechanism of a SIG P320?
Put that in there.
And what is it that makes it prone to accidental discharge?
If you look up SIG P320 online in any search engine, accidental discharge comes
up very quickly.
Oh, it is striker fired.
Yeah.
Okay.
Pulled a striker fire trigger mechanism.
When pressed, trigger bar moves forward, disengaged the safety, lever and sear
releasing the striker.
Okay.
So, it's a striker fired pistols.
Okay.
Got it.
So, as of 2017, SIG changed the way they make their guns.
Because the trigger itself was heavier than what it is now.
And not just the pull, but the actual mechanism of the trigger was heavier.
If you drop it, so if this is the barrel of the gun where the bullet comes out
and this is where you're holding on your hand.
It disconnects.
If you drop it, it'll discharge.
Mm-hmm.
And it'll discharge without moving the slide.
Which is kind of crazy.
Because what happens is something in the dropping it on the back where the
handle is...
Releases the disconnector probably.
It causes that heavier trigger, the heavier weight to the trigger, to drop down
and it will discharge.
Okay.
As of 2017, they made the trigger lighter and it doesn't do that anymore.
Okay.
There's a whole YouTube video where this guy explains it and shows that you can
do it with the older models.
If you drop them...
If you drop them on their side, they don't do it.
If you drop them barrel first, they don't do it.
But if you drop them handle first and it hits the back where you hold it, where
the, you know, the...
What is it called?
The beaver tail gun sits.
Then the internal hammer drops and bang.
Exactly.
Got it.
And it's one of the only guns that does that.
Yeah.
And so much so that I believe...
You should search this.
I believe the Dallas Police Department stopped issuing them to their officers.
See if that's true.
Before I go further, because I don't want to get into any legal weeds here.
But I have one.
I have a 320.
I've never had a problem with it.
I...
Here it is.
"Dallas Police suspends use of pistol manufacturer."
Okay.
And it's because of that.
So...
What are these chambered in?
940?
It's nine.
Nine?
They're nines.
But the...
So that's the gun this guy has.
Mm-hmm.
So when this CBP officer grabs his gun, he was moving off and it appears...
It's very grainy, the video.
It appears there's an accidental discharge.
Now, you can make an accidental discharge of this gun without touching the
trigger.
If there's any kind of pressure on the trigger, if it is a modified trigger, if
there's anything that engages with it, even a slight amount, and you move the
slide at all, that gun will go off.
And there's videos of it online.
And there's videos of it online.
You can find videos of it online.
See if you can find videos of it online where a guy shows how you can get that
gun to negligent discharge.
Because it will.
It will.
At least the pre-2017 model.
I didn't see his hand go on the slide of the gun, though.
Yeah.
Well, he's holding it, you know, the hard thing is it's fucking blurry shit.
Yeah, you can't see.
I looked at it from both angles, but it looked to me like he was holding it by
the handle.
With no finger on the trigger.
Yeah.
It does seem, like at least in some of the takes that I've seen, I may be wrong,
but it seems like that gun might have negligent discharged.
Now, did it-
Usually when someone's holding a gun and there's a negligent discharge, it's
because they pulled the trigger, right?
Right, right.
So in this case, let's, I mean, I'm going to assume it for a second.
So the gun drops on the side, striker fired, let's say it's, I don't know what
the mechanism is.
Well, let's say the disconnector, that makes the disconnector go, the hammer
drops, bam, hits the primer, gun fires.
I get that.
Gun fires, hits the ground.
These guys think, they hear gun, these guys think this guy might have a gun in
the scramble.
They don't know.
This is all seconds.
So they open fire.
High pressure, they open fire on him.
That's what I believe happened.
You know, so when people say, oh, they straight up executed this guy.
I think he better, there's a little more nuance there.
There's more nuance to it.
There's chaos.
There's the fog of chaos.
You're in the middle of this, like, very high stress situation where you've
already pepper sprayed this guy.
Now you're in a physical scramble.
Someone says he has a gun, gun goes off.
Bang, bang, bang.
You're just shooting.
I'm assuming.
This is just a lot of, you know, a lot of guesswork.
But that's a lot of bad stuff that has to happen in sequence.
Yes.
Like the fact, even if this gun is recalled as a model that had these issues,
right?
I'm guessing that it wasn't every, every one of them that had the issues.
Some of them.
Right.
Probably not all.
And if it's because it has to have a lot of force for it to go off or the slide
has to be, you know, you have to be moving the slide or something like this.
What I saw was him holding the pistol.
Right.
How you or I would hold the pistol with the finger off the trigger.
Yes.
I did not actually see, like, what would have caused that force.
This is where it gets weird.
So, there have been documented instances.
Like, the Sig P320, there's a lot of legal stuff involved in this.
There's tons of cases.
Some of them are bullshit.
Like, there was one cop where they said the cop got shot because the gun
accidentally went off.
And everybody's like, oh, man, Sig's in trouble.
Turns out that cop had to recant that.
And he accidentally hit the trigger and shot a cop.
But he wanted, so this is one.
So, this guy, his gun just goes off.
Now, he doesn't have his finger on the trigger.
It just goes off.
Now, there's another one where a cop is in the middle of a precinct and he leans
forward.
He's got the holster on the outside.
He leans forward and the gun goes off.
He does not have his hand on the trigger.
He's not touching the gun at all.
See if you can find the one where the cop does it.
So, there's a cop where he's in the precinct.
His gun is, now, here's the question.
Was there something touching the trigger?
Was it the holster bad?
Was there debris in it?
Was there something, was his shirt touching it?
Did he jam the gun in the holster and maybe his shirt got stuck in and it
touched the trigger a little bit?
There's also the second gun theory.
And then he moves forward, if the guy had a second gun.
There's also the second gun theory.
Right.
So, I understand what you're saying and maybe it met all of the conditions for
that.
It does seem unlikely to me, but it's possible that he's just holding it and it
just happens to go off.
It would seem unlikely with any other gun.
Yeah.
So, if the guy had a Glock.
But both of these cases are from the holster.
This guy's grabbing from the holster.
He's grabbing from the holster.
Well, the cop had already pulled it out of the holster.
Right.
And now he's holding it and then it goes off.
Right, but it's so low resolution, it's hard to see what's going on with his
hands.
True.
So, if there had been some funkiness with the trigger, you know, who knows
where he got the gun?
Who knows whether or not that gun had an aftermarket trigger?
Who knows what's going on?
But as he's doing this, you're in the middle of the chaos, you're ramped up
with adrenaline.
Who knows if that guy accidentally, while he was holding it, put pressure on
the slide and caused that gun to negligent discharge?
I don't know.
This is the speculation and the reason why the speculation is so, it's, this is
something worth talking about, is because it's a SIG P320.
Yeah.
And there's so many stories about that.
It's not outside the realm of possibility, in other words.
Right.
Which is the worst case scenario, right?
You got all this chaos and then you got that fucking gun and that gun goes off.
Yeah.
But let me ask you this.
Let's say we adjust for this.
There's an investigation.
It turns out that this SIG P320 model was one of the ones that, you know, was
an older model.
Yeah.
Or something like this, or it was issued after the fact.
Very well could be.
And it's brand, it's newer.
Let's just say it's newer and they've gotten this design flaw out of there.
Let's just assume for a second.
Okay.
All those things being equal now, right?
So, when a leftist points at that and says that's an execution, what's your
opinion then?
If it's the case, there is no negligent discharge.
There is none of that.
What, like, how would you view it then?
Well, it's an extremely unfortunate case of what happens during chaos.
Yeah.
I agree.
I don't think it's an execution.
I don't think they pulled the gun from him and then just shot him.
But that's rhetoric being used, right?
It is.
But, you know, which you're automatically going to have if you have a guy get
shot.
Can we watch a video?
Let's watch a video and see if we can discern when the shot fires off.
Because does it before or after they say he's got a gun?
Because someone says he has a gun, one of the officers removes the gun, and
then a shot goes off.
Yeah.
Now there's another speculation that the guy who shot him had a negligent
discharge.
He didn't, like, maybe he had his hand on the trigger, and he got a little amped
up, and it went off, and then he just fucking fired into him.
Kept going.
Kept going.
That's possible, too.
I'm not exactly sure.
It's, there's a ton of angles, a ton of different cell phone angles.
None of them are really crystal clear.
And the thing that's interesting about this is I'm even willing to kind of
grant it to the left.
Just on appearance alone for a second.
Just for the sake of, like, logically taking this to its conclusion.
Let's say that the cops were totally wrong on this.
They messed the whole thing up.
They screwed it up.
They, it was a negligent discharge from the officer himself.
It killed this guy.
It was totally unjustified.
Okay, but now what?
Right?
Is it, is it the case that we're going to, what, stop deporting illegal
immigrants?
We're going to stop, you know, that ICE is going to stop.
Border Patrol is going to stop doing its job.
ICE is going to stop doing its job because of a single incident, even if all of
the officers involved were incorrect.
Of course not.
That's ridiculous, right?
The thing about this incident is it's being used as a catalyst to now say they're
the, they're the Gestapo, just like they were trying to do with Rene.
They're the Gestapo.
They're here to, to, you know, be the jackbooted thugs of the Trump
administration.
That's being used now as the new rallying cry and catalyst for the, and it's
post hoc justification.
That's what makes me so angry about is it's like, no, no, no, you're out here
doing all of this long before anybody was getting shot by ICE.
Okay.
You're doing this long before there was any supposed abuses by ICE.
It seems like they're the, what they do is they set up the reactions, right?
They set up the conditions, maximize the conditions for horrible actions to
happen.
And then when they do, they use those as the justification for why they were
ever out there in the first place.
And it's like, what's going on here?
That's, that's what bothers me.
Right.
This is the quintessential description of the color revolution.
I mean, they're, they're trying to create chaos and is again, it's very well
funded and very well organized.
It's not as simple as this is an organic protest that people are fired up
because ICE is in their community.
That's not really what's going on at all.
But I think there's a lot of good people that are wrapped up in that, that
think they're doing a good thing.
And they really do think they're fighting fascism because they exist in these
bubbles.
I believe them.
Yeah.
I do believe them that they think that they're fighting against fascism.
And I, I've, I've debated with enough of these people on what historically fascism
is in comparison to what they perceive it as.
That I do think that they believe that a hundred percent.
Right.
It's, I just think it's an unjustified belief.
And I think it's, it's ridiculous.
It's not accurate.
It's not accurate.
You know, one of the things that we went over the other day is we talked about
the deportations.
Right.
And that there's been somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 million deportations,
but 1.6 of them were like self deportations.
1.6 of them were like, people were notified and they said, we're just get the
fuck out of here.
I don't want to be in jail.
Yeah, good.
And then a half a million of them were.
And then, but people are saying very few of them would have been violent
criminals, but we found out there was like 8%.
This is just 8% of what we know has been caught.
That is a lot of violent criminals.
If you've got a half a million people and 8% of them are murderers and rapists
and they snuck in door, not even snuck in because they were allowed access to
the United States over the last four years.
Somewhere to the tune of let's be like super charitable.
Let's say it's only 10 million because I think it's a lot more and they don't.
A lot more.
Yeah.
They don't really know the number because it's really the numbers that they're
giving are based on interactions.
Right.
But how many people snuck through and they didn't have an interaction with them?
It's a lot, man.
It's a lot of people and they did this shit on purpose and they did this shit
because they want more congressional seats because the census doesn't count
citizens.
It doesn't count legal citizens.
It just counts human beings.
So the more citizens you have in an area, the more congressional seats you have.
And then there's places like California that make it illegal to show your ID.
You're not allowed.
Not only are you not supposed, which you should have to show your fucking ID
when you vote.
Yes.
Right.
So we know that you're legally voting.
They made it so you can't show your ID, which is the only, the only, you could
steel man this to the end of time.
The only reason why you do that is because you want to cheat.
Of course.
It's the only reason.
Of course.
Well, it's not just that, but you make, you make a good compelling point here.
The idea, even if it was the case, let's just say almost none of them are
violent criminals.
Let's just give it to them.
Just kind of for the sake of argument here.
We'll give it to them.
So what?
The people don't want them here.
That's it.
You're, these are supposed to be the biggest believers in democracy and
republicanism ever.
That's what they're fighting against is the evil fascists.
It's like, well, here the people spoke.
Okay.
And the people said, we don't want illegal immigrants here.
We want them out of here.
It doesn't matter what the conditionals are for violent criminality or not
violent criminality.
If you're really a big believer in the Republic like you claim, why is it that
when Trump gets elected to do exactly this job, you impede it at every turn?
Yeah.
They don't want it to happen.
They don't.
Because it was a part of the strategy for a uniparty.
I mean, this is, Elon came on and was, you know, was very passionate about
wanting to explain this to people.
I mean, it's one of the reasons why he did it before the election.
Like you have to understand the plan that's in place.
And what they're doing is they're trying to make it so that no one but the
Democrats can ever win ever again.
And one of the best ways to do that is to ship untold numbers of people to
swing states.
Yeah.
Which is what they're doing.
It's what they did.
They didn't just do it.
They flew them out there.
They gave them EBT cards.
They put them on social security.
We had this woman, we documented, we talked about this woman who worked for,
gotta forget which department, but her job was to turn these people from
illegal immigrants into what she described, they described to her as clients.
And so you would tell these people, are you?
Clients.
Yes.
So her question was to them, do you have a permanent disability?
So do you have headaches?
Does your back hurt?
I get headaches.
My back hurts.
I guess I'm permanently disabled.
And all you have to do is like, you don't have to have like, like clear
evidence.
You have all your fucking discs are fused.
You can't walk or you have, no, you just have to have a fucking back hurt.
Your back hurts.
Well, what fucking man who's a laborer, who's 35 years old, doesn't have
fucking back pain.
Yeah.
Like y'all do.
So they come to you, they say, do you have headaches and back pain?
What man is an office worker doesn't have back pain?
Right.
Exactly.
Fucking everybody does.
When you're older, you get back pain, especially if you don't take care of your
back.
And so these guys are all being roped into the system and then they get money.
They get social security money.
They get money from taxpayers essentially forever.
So if you can get those people to vote, they will most certainly vote for the
people that
are giving them that money.
Right?
Of course.
Most certainly vote for the people that are moving them into the Roosevelt
Hotel in New
York City.
They'll vote, even though at the local level they oppose all leftist policy.
They'll vote at a national level for leftists because they bring in their
family members.
They bring in.
They allow the the importation of people that they want here.
So, yeah, they're they utilize the system for for the aims and for Democrats.
This is all good.
And of course, for Republicans, it's all bad.
Elon's right.
He is right that Democrats.
And here's what I see.
The bird's eye view.
Right.
Trump.
What they're going to do.
Democrats going to win the midterms by hook or by crook.
They're going to win the midterms.
And when they do, if they have the power in the house to do this, they're going
to impeach
him day one.
And we'll have now to be the thrice impeached president.
Right.
They'll obstruct him.
They'll obstruct his agenda the entire step of the way under this elongated
impeachment.
And they'll just run out the clock.
Yeah.
Run it out.
It's it's all pretty fucking crazy.
It's really crazy.
Gadsad has a great way describe this.
He calls it suicidal empathy.
And, you know, a lot of these people that are on the left that are self-described
leftists,
they're very kind people and they want, you know, everyone to have a chance to
live in America
and be good people.
And they don't understand they're being used as pawns by much more cynical
people that are
just trying to get total control.
And if you want to know what total control looks like and what kind of
restrictions could
be imposed on a Western society, look no further than the UK.
Look what's going on in England right now.
Twelve thousand people have been arrested so far last year for in the last year,
rather,
for social media posts, just social media posts criticizing immigration.
There was some new thing that they just passed that makes it so that you're
supposed to tell on people
who are talking in pubs, who are having conversations in pubs that you think
are dangerous conversations.
There was that woman in the UK who was S-Aid and then called the guy a name via
text.
Yes.
She called him a faggot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She called him a faggot.
And then she was arrested.
Yeah.
She was arrested.
I was, and I remember arguing on Pierce Morgan.
I was debating with a leftist on this.
This was the topic at the time.
Yeah.
And the leftist who looked at me like he was a faggot too, said he was
defending it tooth
and nail, right?
This is a good thing because we want to get rid of stigma.
The idea is to try to de-stigmatize the thing.
See, words create stigma and stigma creates harm values and harm values are
evil.
They're bad.
That's the whole moral system.
If we reduce harm, that's moral.
If we increase harm, that's immoral.
So that's the zero sum way that they look at this, right?
Yeah.
If you're increasing it, bad.
If you're decreasing it, good.
So if we're decreasing stigmatization of an activity that we think is protected,
then
that's reducing harm.
Therefore, that's the moral position.
Crazy.
They are crazy.
It's crazy.
That is actually a crazy way to look at the world.
Well, it's very dystopian.
It's very spooky that it's happening so quickly and that the UK has become the
leader in the
world for arresting people for social media posts.
No one would have ever saw that coming five, six years ago.
But this is what happens when you get total control of a population.
And you don't stop where you're at.
You continue to move forward.
You continue to try to get more and more control.
And this is this new thing where they're trying to get people to turn people in
for bar talk,
which is just crazy.
It's just crazy.
So that's where it goes.
If you're really a liberal, a real liberal, a real progressive person who
really believes
in free speech, you should believe in all speech and you have to.
I mean, this was the ADL's position way back in the day when they would allow
the Ku Klux Klan to march.
And then fight for the right to do so.
Yes.
I mean, this is what it used to be.
It used to be an understanding that as complicated as this thing is, you've got
to allow people to say horrible things so that you can counter them with better
points and you make a better argument and then people see your side and then
society moves forward.
In a generally positive direction.
You know, in the online dialectic, the way that it moves between groups.
And I think that now online influencers, podcasters, political commentators
actually do have political, they have some political capital now, which can be
spent the same way low level politicians have political capital, which can now
be spent.
They actually are connected oftentimes with politicians.
Right.
And operate as mouthpieces on behalf of whatever that political arm is.
Well, you would say that about the right too, wouldn't you?
Of course, but I don't see it as prevalent as I do with the left.
The left, for instance, there was a whole thing that used to go on on Twitch
where an organization came in and bought up all the Twitch mouthpieces.
That's what they did.
And like this, this is, this is something which has been going on for a long
time.
But what's interesting with the political capital angle from these leftists,
they don't care what the means are.
The ends are what, that's all they care about, right?
The means to get there, totally irrelevant to them.
From their view though, that makes a sick sort of sense.
They believe that they're fighting against Nazis.
Right.
Literal Nazis.
Right.
So if you believed that you were in a war with literal Nazis, what wouldn't you
do to complete that war?
What, what means wouldn't you go to?
What means of sabotage would you not do?
Of course.
What cars would you not blow up?
Right.
What cops would you not eliminate?
Right.
In order to stop the rise of the new Hitler.
Right.
And it's like, and they're, they're expending their political capital on that
message.
And that message has a lot of influence on people.
Yeah.
It also, there, there's so many people that are getting attention by feeding
into the rhetoric.
There's so many people that are making viral clips of them threatening, you
know, like menacing,
like these weird dorky liberal guys.
Like these guys that you would think of pacifists are literally calling for
violence.
I got one of them cause it's like the most unlikely guy.
Like you see this guy doing this, like, Hey buddy, like who, what, what are you
saying?
Who's following you into battle?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who's I'm going to, I'm going to say that cause it's, it's the way he says it
too is
so like, like he's watched too many fucking TV shows.
Um, this guy, let's cause it's, it's the terminology that he uses that is, it's
actually
kind of funny if it wasn't so scary.
Put this on real quick.
Sure.
Cause it's so, you see this guy's doughy face and his understanding of real
violence.
Listen to this.
When combat starts, we all roll initiative.
I'm going to say that again.
And anyone, everyone knows what I'm talking about.
When I say this, when combat starts, we all roll initiative.
I mean, I hate to laugh cause it's kind of fucking serious because they're,
they're inciting
violence and they're, they're calling for insurrection.
They're calling for people to take to the streets and start violence.
But that guy, like what?
You're not going to roll initiative?
What does it even mean?
Well, I mean, I think, I think it just means we all go.
Right.
When violence start, we all go.
That's a Dungeons and Dragons reference.
Is it?
Rolling.
Oh, rolling.
No, no, no, no.
Wait a minute.
No.
The tweet says Dungeons and Dragons in it.
I don't even know.
Oh God.
It says Dungeons and Dragons nerds means business.
I think.
Oh.
So.
Do a search on that.
Does roll initiative.
Is that a part of Dungeons and Dragons?
Roll that.
Cause I only know of Dungeons and Dragons from Stranger Things.
So does his AR do 2d6 damage?
It's like.
But it's just the menacing way that he stares into the camera.
Okay, here it is.
It determines your turn in combat.
Rolling for initiative determines the turn order in combat.
Each player and monster rolls a 20 sided die and adds their dexterity modifier.
Oh God.
But I mean this is what I'm saying.
It's like.
It's.
A lot of it is cause play.
That does sound like he is saying though.
We all go there.
Right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's what he's saying.
And it's also.
It gives meaning to people whose lives do not have a lot of meaning.
Right?
Like all of a sudden you're a part of a greater cause.
You're a part of a very important movement.
Yeah.
You're stopping Nazis.
Yeah.
You're stopping Nazis.
You're relatively safe from the comfort of your own home staring at your phone
on TikTok.
Sure.
You know.
And you get all excited about it.
And you cheer.
And these are the same people that cheered when Charlie Kirk got shot.
For just talking.
Like that was fine.
But this one is not good.
You know.
It's all like.
It's very fucked up man.
Well and they're gonna kill.
They'll kill more commentators.
They can get away with it.
Happily.
I mean.
Part of that whole signal chat.
That's dangerous that people aren't talking about.
That's probably the most dangerous aspect of it.
It.
And I can't prove this.
But it's been my experience.
That left wing communities and left wing groups.
Especially online communities and online groups.
Really pander to the mentally ill.
In a big way.
Really pander to them.
And it's.
I think that it's a form of weaponization.
They want to attract the extremely mentally ill into these communities.
And it helps with actually what is radicalization.
And they play on the fact that they're mentally ill in order to do this.
Well this is Antifa.
Right.
Like this is.
This is why.
It's not just Antifa.
It goes beyond that.
Sure.
If you go to some of these tick talkers communities.
You go to some of the online political pundits communities who are far left.
Okay.
These people who are in there are fruit loops man.
Yeah.
They are lunatics.
And they're pandered to.
They're pandered to.
Oh.
Okay.
You can't say this to them.
That's ableist.
Right.
You can't tell them this.
You're a weirdo.
Because that's mean.
You can't.
And not only are they pandered to.
But I think that that's the source of the weapon.
If it's the case that these people.
Don't care about death.
They don't care.
Like.
Oh.
The outcome is going to be death.
That guy who shot at the.
The ICE agents.
Not too long ago.
Remember he was on top of the roof.
He was shooting across with I think a Mauser rifle.
And they dusted him.
They killed him.
Or he shot himself.
I don't remember which.
When was this?
This was a few months back.
I don't know about this one.
I don't think.
No.
There was a guy.
He was.
It's just how callous I've become.
Yeah.
He was taking shots at.
I believe it was ICE agents in front of the ICE facility.
Oh.
That's right.
That's right.
I remember that.
I remember that.
I believe he was using like a Mauser rifle or something.
Okay.
Now I remember.
Yeah.
Early on with the Charlie Kirk thing.
They were actually making these connections.
Because he had used a Mauser as well.
Right.
So people were making those early connections.
Wait.
Is this a sequence of events?
Does the Mauser mean something here?
Does that particular rifle have special meaning?
You know how people are online.
Yeah.
But anyway.
The interesting thing is like.
They don't care if they die.
They're dying martyrs.
They don't care.
Right.
And it's really easy to weaponize mentally ill people that way.
Because they don't care.
These are the same people who have the high suicide rates.
For a reason.
Because they're already mentally ill.
Like the Troons and others.
Which many of them you find are connected to trans people.
Almost every time.
So SSRIs.
Yep.
This is the other problem.
Is that.
How many of these people are on these psychiatric medications that violent ideation
is a part
of the side effects of these suicidal or excuse me these psychiatric drugs.
There's a lot of people that have psychotic thoughts when they get on some of
these different SSRIs and different psychiatric medications.
So you've got people that are already fucked up mentally.
And then you've got them on these medications that cause them to do all kinds
of crazy things.
And aren't women.
Aren't women taking much more in the way of SSRI pills than men are.
Yeah.
And who do we see on the bullhorns and loudspeakers at most of these events.
It's women.
Well particularly liberal women.
Particularly liberal women.
Yeah.
I'm sure you've seen the statistics.
But I.
Very lopsided.
Save them cause they're kind of nutty.
The.
Which.
What's interesting is the num.
Like.
The least.
Mentally ill.
In terms of numbers.
Is.
Conservative men.
Conservative men.
I think it's like.
Cause they're normal.
Yeah.
I think.
Okay.
Young liberal women.
56% report a mental health diagnosis.
Young moderate women.
18 and 29.
28%.
Young conservative women.
27%.
Only slightly less.
So for men.
It is.
34% of all liberal men.
34%.
24%.
So.
A third.
Of all.
Liberal men.
Are mentally ill.
22% of moderate men.
And 16% of conservative men.
Yeah.
But you know what the lunatics argue.
When you bring that up.
What?
These lunatics.
They'll argue.
The conservative men.
The conservative men.
Are just.
Is mentally ill.
It's just undiagnosed.
Because there's a stigma.
In conservative communities.
About going.
To get your mental illness.
Diagnosed.
And I always point out.
And I think this is a.
An interesting way.
To point this out.
Like.
Maybe they're not going to get diagnosed.
Because they don't have a problem.
Did you ever think of that?
It's possible.
It's possible.
It's undiagnosed.
Is accurate though.
That there is a stigma.
About mental health.
And therapy.
And things along those lines.
In conservative.
I mean.
If you want to like.
I agree.
But I also think that.
What happens is.
When you're.
When you're talking.
Especially about the voodoo.
That is psychology.
And it is.
It is voodoo.
It is voodoo.
I have very little respect.
For psychology.
Right.
I don't even consider it science.
I consider.
That there's scientific methods.
Used for data gathering.
But I don't consider.
Psychology a science.
And that's psychology.
Psychiatry.
It's even weirder.
Yeah.
Because then you start.
Adding medication.
Yeah.
You're not just.
Talking about therapy.
It's all voodoo too.
As far as I'm concerned.
I think that men.
Often.
Especially conservative men.
Get as much.
Out of.
You know.
Their close relationships.
With friends.
And family.
As they would.
Going to a psychologist.
In other words.
Just.
I think just having.
Somebody to talk to.
Who's a close friend.
Who's intricately familiar.
With your situation.
Probably gives you.
More value.
Learned manipulation techniques.
That's what they learn.
Essentially.
Is manipulation techniques.
I think there's more value there.
And so I think that.
The stigma.
Which exists there.
Doesn't exist.
Because it's like.
You're not manly.
Which is how they try to frame it.
I think the stigma exists there.
Because so many.
Conservative men.
You know.
I tried that shit.
And it was nonsense.
I tried it.
And it sucked.
I tried it.
And it was worth it.
I went to marriage counseling.
Did nothing.
Sided with the wife.
Right.
I went.
For this issue.
Did nothing.
But when I went out.
And had some beers.
With my friends.
That actually helped relieve.
Some of these.
Some of these issues.
There's a lot of guys.
Who don't have good friends.
You know.
And you don't have someone.
That you can count on.
Unfortunately.
You know.
There's just.
There's a lot of men out there.
That are lost.
I agree.
But I think that the conservative men.
Seem to like.
They have closer longevity.
With friends.
Than progressive men do.
Yes.
And they don't abandon them.
When they change their opinions.
On things.
Right.
So here's the self-reported data.
From 2022.
Survey analysis.
Found that 51% of conservatives.
Report.
Excellent mental health.
Compared to 20% of liberals.
That's a big difference.
Huge.
It's a giant difference.
I don't think stigma.
Could account for that.
No.
It can't.
It's like.
It's not just stigma.
It's like.
It's also like.
What is.
What does it mean.
To be conservative.
Does it mean.
You know.
Taking account.
For your own actions.
Discipline.
Hard work ethic.
All those things.
Are actually good.
For your mental health.
Like.
Pulling yourself up.
And getting back to work.
And doing things.
I think.
I think now.
And I think maybe it always should have been framed this way.
I think now.
For.
To.
For the label of conservative.
To apply.
We really kind of start with religious foundationalism.
Mm-hmm.
That's what.
Is becoming.
Fast becoming.
The.
Delineation.
Right.
Having a framework.
Having the framework.
Yeah.
Is almost instantly.
Is almost instantly.
Going to put you.
In that.
Moving towards that conservative camp.
Almost every single time.
And.
And I think.
I think that that's a necessary component.
Now.
If we're trying to make these.
Political delineations.
It becomes tough.
What's a Republican.
Or a neocon.
Versus a conservative.
Versus a this.
Versus that.
It comes down to foundationalism.
Of framework.
Right.
Like you were just saying.
In the framework of Christianity.
Christian ethics.
Huge delineation point.
Between.
The right.
And the left.
Who rejects that.
For harm principles.
Utilitarianism.
And various other.
Sorts of frameworks.
Yeah.
And they'll also point to.
You know.
What Christianity has done.
Throughout history.
And the amount of harm.
That it's caused.
But it's kind of like.
Every power structure.
Throughout history.
That you could point to.
In that way.
Well it was.
What was there.
Yeah.
The thing is.
The Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church.
Gets a lot of shit for this.
Well.
Look at.
All the horrible things.
That the Catholic Church did.
And it's like.
Well the Catholic Church.
Was the whole known world once.
Right.
You know.
All of Europe.
Was the Catholic Church.
Not.
You know.
Like all of it was.
Right.
You can't have organizations.
Which span whole nations.
And countries.
Ethnicities.
Cultures.
And.
And not have corruption.
That.
I don't care what system it is.
Pointing to it.
And saying.
It's because they were Catholic.
That's where it becomes absurd.
Right.
They were corrupt.
There was corruption.
But that's not.
Because they're human.
Because they're human.
Not because they're Catholic.
Right.
Right.
People.
They go.
Why do you go to church.
Because when I was younger.
I was very cynical about religion.
And then I've got older.
One of the things that I always say is.
If there was a pill.
That could make you as nice as the people that I go to church with.
Everybody would be on it.
Yeah.
They are the nicest fucking people you will ever encounter.
When we leave the church parking lot.
Are they nice or are they kind?
They're kind.
Yeah.
They're kind.
They're like very friendly happy people.
But when you leave the church parking lot.
Or even when you're entering.
They're the.
They.
Everybody lets everybody in.
It's like no one rushes ahead.
It's like you go ahead.
And then you go ahead.
It's like the most self-organized.
Sure.
Most charitable way of exiting a parking lot.
I've ever experienced in my life.
The opposite of a concert.
You go to a great concert.
Everybody's like fucking.
On everybody's bumper.
Trying to weasel in.
And people are honking.
Fuck you.
In church.
It's like one person goes.
Another person goes.
No you go.
Wave.
And then everybody's fine.
And everybody's happy.
It's like.
If that was.
If you could take a pill.
That could do that to you.
If therapy could do that to you.
We should all be on therapy.
We should all take that pill.
Philosophy can do that for you.
Because the phenomenon that you're talking about.
Is the me philosophy.
And so what.
You're.
You're going to church.
It's not all about you.
Right.
And that's why you have those types of interactions with people.
Wait.
I'm going.
You go to a concert.
You.
That's for me.
Not for these strangers.
I'm going there.
Because I want to be entertained.
That's for me.
You go to church.
It's not for you.
Right.
The thing is.
Is.
It's the.
It's.
The kind of material.
Materialism view.
The materialistic view.
Of pure materialism.
Reduces always to me.
Me.
Me.
Me.
Because what else can there be.
Right.
There's nothing outside of that.
There's nothing outside of that.
So why engage.
As though there's something outside of that.
That doesn't just lead to nihilism.
But it's the beginning stages of understanding the distinction between
religious foundationalism.
And.
Basically everything else.
The reduction doesn't come down.
To me.
And that's why those interactions seem so much better.
Because they are.
Because people are thinking about.
You.
Right.
Right.
What a concept.
Imagine a world where people think about somebody besides themselves.
And they think about.
They can think about everybody as a part of a community.
And a collective community that you care about.
That has value to you.
Yeah.
And they're.
You know there's.
And then you go why is mental health rate so much better in these communities.
Right.
It's like well isn't it interesting how much they think about other people than
just themselves.
And duties.
Yes.
To those people.
Yes.
Instead of just me, me, me, me, me.
Most people you're ever going to come across.
Yeah.
And I think there's a lot of value in that.
And I think the people that are cynical about that.
Because they don't want to believe in fairy tales.
Or they don't want to be stupid.
They don't want to get duped by.
Like look.
There's a foundation to that.
If you just look.
Forget about some of the stuff that's in the Bible that.
You know.
It gets weird when you get old.
Like you go back into the old, old, old stuff.
Because like.
For sure.
Human beings had some sort of an influence on what was written down.
And what wasn't written down.
But you get just to the teachings of Christ.
I can't find any faults in it.
Like it's all about being kind.
It's all about this idea that we're all in this together.
And that you're supposed to lift each other up.
And look after each other.
There's no faults in it.
It's not like you have to kill the non-believers.
It's not like you get to rape and pillage for the non-believers.
And the infidels must die.
There's none of that.
That's why the.
That's why Christians believe in objective truth.
That it must be objective truth.
Because otherwise why is most of the world following this as though it's
objective truth.
We seem to be leaning towards this as though this must be the thing which is
objectively real and objectively true.
And a thing which we can point to that is.
Because when people are introduced to it like you just said.
It's really hard and difficult to find fault in it.
It's not just that.
You know it's interesting.
If we reverse it.
If we say what could I do that actually would be the best for me, me, me, me,
me.
It would still be that.
Yeah.
Which is the funniest part of the whole thing.
Right.
It's like both ways it works for you.
Even if it's not all about you.
Or it works for you even if it is all about you.
It's still going to be the better message out of the two.
It's definitely a better framework for living your life.
And there's a lot of people that just reject that.
That think of themselves as intelligent.
You know they think of themselves as intelligent and well-read and educated.
Too smart for that.
Yeah I'm too smart for that.
Too smart for all that.
I'm an atheist.
Yeah.
Any atheist needs to take eight grams of mushrooms.
Do a little DMT?
Do a little DMT.
And you're like oh I don't know anything.
You think you know things.
You don't know a fucking thing.
You just know what you've experienced.
And I think that the world is better off if people have a great moral and
ethical framework.
I think morals and ethics and being kind is one of the most important values
that human beings can ever possess if you want to live in a productive and
healthy community.
Completely agree.
And I think that kindness.
I make a delineation between kindness and niceness.
Mm-hmm.
Because I think it's often kind not to be nice.
Right.
But I do think that you can be nice and it may not be kind.
Right.
And so.
That's true.
So I make a delineation between those things.
I don't think that kindness though has much variance.
Right.
Kindness is looking after the interest of somebody who's not me.
And it makes everybody feel.
It's actually selfish.
Because it makes you feel good too.
Yeah.
I mean there is something.
I mean you can look at it that way.
Sure.
From the position of trying to convince the unbeliever.
Right.
Appealing to their self-interest may not be the worst idea.
Right.
You know appealing to like well has the lack of community and the like let's
just assume for a second.
Let's just assume it's all bullshit and it's all nonsense.
Every bit of it is just totally made up.
We just like we just made it up.
Right.
But we all acted as though it was true.
If it's the case that your whole framework is that we just want a society that
really works well.
And does the best it can possibly do for everyone.
Then shouldn't you by your own framework just pretend it's true.
Right.
Yeah.
Shouldn't you just act as though it's true anyway.
Jordan Peterson had a very good point about that.
Yeah.
And believing in God that if you act as if God is real you will have a better
life.
Like it works.
It really does work.
Almost like a universal truth.
Yeah.
It's very fascinating.
It's fascinating that people that are self-professed atheists and people that
think of themselves as
too intelligent for religion won't acknowledge that.
They don't want to believe that.
And so many of them that I know that are self-professed atheists are some of
the most miserable people.
They're very depressed.
A lot of them are on psychiatric medications.
A lot of them are in therapy.
A lot of them are really fucked up.
They're almost cursed.
Yeah.
Almost seems like that doesn't it?
Yeah.
Well the thing is interesting is like I've talked with a lot of atheists,
debated with
a lot of atheists especially on the effects of Christianity and society against
the effects
of atheism.
And I know what pure secular states have led to.
That's what communism was.
That was a purely secular state.
Yes.
Where you really wall off the church from the state.
But here we pretend that it's secular and they get all the benefits of it being
"secular"
but it's not secular at all.
Right.
Politicians are constantly voted in based on the fact that they have an X
amount of value
structure and that's what they're going to implement legislatively on you.
The whole secular thing, totally made up.
And them pretending that that's even real or has ever existed as a real
framework in the
United States, just nonsense.
Not only that, but I think there is a natural default in the human mind to be
attracted to
a structure.
And if that structure is a Christian structure, you're attracted to all the
Christian values
that you've just discussed being so positive and beneficial to you.
But if you're not and you go to a leftist progressive structure, leftists in
particular, like a Marxist
structure, what you're seeing is a complete lack of forgiveness.
They don't have that built into the system.
You know, one of the beautiful things about Christianity is forgiveness and the
recognition
that we're all sinners and we all fuck up and we're all human and we're all
flawed.
And that you could move on and be better and you can atone for these sins and
you could
recognize that, you know, yes, you've made a mistake, but here's the best way
to move forward
and be a better person.
Everybody at whole recognizes that you are me and I am you and we're all kind
of the same
thing.
We all fuck up and we're all just human beings.
But there's a pathway.
There's a pathway to forgiveness.
There's zero pathway in leftism.
That's the most horrible thing when you watch these pylons online over like the
most innocuous
discretions.
What's funny with leftists is their pathway is just everything's permitted and
the pathway
from the Christians.
No, not everything is permitted, but almost everything can be forgiven.
Right.
And that I would see as the big distinction, you know, there's a story that I
heard, because
I'm Eastern Orthodox, that's what I follow, and I heard, it was a great story
my priest
told me.
And so basically how this went is there was monks, they lived in a commune and
one monk
liked to get drunk.
That was his big vice.
Right.
And he drank a lot of beer.
And he did this clear up until the day that he died.
And when he died, everyone was crying.
And a monk said, well, you know, why is everyone crying?
You know, he held that vice clear up until the day he died, you know, and the
head of the abbot
who was there, he said, yeah, but the last few years, he cut it in half.
He was on the path.
He was, well, he's just saying, I'm going to recognize all the progress that
this man
who had this horrible vice did, right?
There was still progress.
He was still trying to move towards the virtue.
Yeah.
Now, maybe he never got to it, but I'm still going to recognize that he was
trying to.
And maybe he was not able to surmount it.
He was not able to get past his demons.
Maybe he wasn't able to overtake them all, but he was at least attempting to.
Right.
That's the thing.
That's the thing.
Well, it's this idea of like someone being a perfect person.
It's nonsense.
It doesn't exist.
And so if you don't have a pathway to forgiveness, and if you don't have that
built into your society,
you're always going to have people pointing out the people that are the bad
people.
And it's going to keep moving in that direction.
And it's one of the things you see in the left in particular, they eat their
own.
And it drives me crazy when I see that also from the right.
I'm like, don't you see that the people that you criticize are doing this and
now you're doing this?
You guys are turning on each other over the most innocuous things and forming
tribes where you're attacking each other,
even though you have mostly shared values instead of being charitable and
recognizing that these are just human beings and they make mistakes.
But the left eats itself more than any fucking group that I've ever encountered
over almost nothing.
And they love to pile on because they're absolutely terrified that it's going
to come for them.
They're fucking terrified.
And so they will go out of their way to shame and attack and to take some of
the energy away from them.
But do you think there's a unity in that?
Like, if we were to look at this, again, like from a bird's eye view, I agree
with you.
The left eats itself way more than the right does, though the right eats itself,
too.
Right.
And we've been seeing a lot of that post-Charlie Kirk's death.
Though I think that that was mostly power vacuum based and who gets to fill the
power vacuum.
That's what I think.
I still think that it's it turned into a dog eat dog for the power vacuum fight.
And it was a criticism of values, foundationalism and all of that.
But from the left view, if you eat, if you're eating your own, right, and you
eat the message apart to the point where you get down to the foundation and now
everybody's in lock and step, is that better for political power or worse?
Like, if you constantly are just eating the wrong, you know, nope, that message
isn't pure enough.
And they gobble them up until you get the monster, right, who has the right
message.
They're all on board.
Is that the better way to achieve this kind of like political paradigm that
they want?
That's my question.
It's very naive.
It's a naive perspective that eventually you're going to boil it down to a
purity.
And you're not going to.
It's not going to happen.
You're never going to get far left enough.
There'll always be something else to eat them over on.
Yeah.
Well, also, you're advocating for communism and advocating for communism is so
wild.
And people, there's no examples of it ever being done right.
There's zero.
Imagine advocating for something that has zero success.
Zero.
None.
Like, you can, it doesn't exist.
It does, it's never happened.
There's never been, why?
Well, I'll tell you why.
Because if everybody has to share all the money, then who's going to enforce
that?
Who's going to do, who's going to tell people that you have to give up your
house?
A state.
Who's going to tell people to give up your life?
The state.
The state.
The state has guns.
Yeah.
Yeah, so you're advocating for violence.
Yeah.
Well, you don't think you're advocating for violence, but you are.
You're advocating for hard men with guns.
Guns to enforce your will.
And those people are going to wind up living in mansions and eating filet mignon
and everybody
else is going to be eating oats and gruel.
And that's.
Which is exactly what's always happened.
Always.
When it's tried.
Always.
And the thing is interesting, too, is there's other value set issues that are
really simple
to point to.
Like, okay, nothing's worth anything.
Like, how do I get my guitar?
Right.
It's nonsense.
Like, just, you know, all the communist nations were always setting their
market prices based
on what capitalist markets would set for prices.
And it's like, how do I value a guitar?
If it's supposed to just be mine in the commune and then yours also and his
also, how do we
set a value assessment here?
What makes the Epiphone better than the Fed?
Another.
Sorry, folks.
We had a crash.
Software crash.
Another problem is this idea of the equality of outcome that everybody should
get an equal
amount.
That is crazy talk because we all know that equality of effort does not exist.
There's a reason why there's outliers and the reason why they're so compelling
and so inspirational
is like this fucking guy got up at five o'clock in the morning and ran every
morning before
work and hustled and ate the right food and fucking did the right things and
was thinking
and pushing and was open-minded and he became radically successful.
But from each according to their ability, Joe.
No, it's not even maximizing everyone's ability because you're basically giving
a safety net
for fucking lazy people and that's not good for them either.
No.
No, being inspired by others' success is a good thing.
It's a good thing.
And the only way that happens is if you let someone be exceptional.
And the only way you let someone be exceptional, you have to incentivize them.
Well, what's the incentive?
The incentive is they get more value out of their hard work.
They get more money.
They get a nicer house.
They get – like, what are you going to do?
You're going to decide that people have to, like, mate?
Like, women don't find this guy attractive but that's not fair so they have to
be with
this guy and they have to find him attractive?
Or that, you know, a woman has to find this man attractive even though he's a
dumpy fucking
lazy loser?
Like, this is the way of the world.
Yeah.
And competition is a good thing for human beings.
It inspires us.
It's good.
It lets you know that there's a higher bar that can be achieved.
And you often used to know who the lazy people were based on the living
conditions they had.
Yes.
Isn't that interesting?
Yes.
Just like you would often know if there was an ugly kid that their parents
probably were
pretty ugly, right?
But it's true, right?
Yes.
It is true.
The idea here is, like, people tend to bat in dating in their league, at least
men do,
right?
Or try to, right?
Yeah.
Women love their league.
But the thing is, is the reason you commonly see good-looking people with good-looking
people
and ugly people with ugly people is because that's about what you can get.
Yeah.
But it's the same thing when it comes to ability and skill in whatever it is
that you're
doing, right?
Yes.
The thing is, it's like, well, oftentimes if you ask a person, my dad used to
say this
all the time.
He was right.
If you ask a person, are you where you're at based on things that happened to
you or because
of you?
He said, 98% of people will say, because of things that happened to me.
And then when you ask them about what those things are, you'll find out that it's
because
of them.
You'll find out it's because of choices they've made, things that they've done.
That's actually what's responsible for the conditions that they're in.
Oh, and by the way, for people that's not the case, like trust fund kids are
the most
miserable motherfuckers I have ever met in my life.
And they lose it all anyway.
A lot of them do.
But a lot of them are not fully formed human beings.
And the way I always describe it, I go, it's like if you make cement and you
don't add all
the stuff in the right way, you can't fix it later.
Right.
Right.
So during the developmental process, if you're fucking Joffrey from Game of
Thrones, like
what are the odds that Joffrey is going to fucking figure it out and get his
shit together
and be cool when he gets older?
Yeah, you're just Dexter and that's it.
Exactly.
Right.
You just like, you have the informed experience of the serial killing and it's
like, there's
just no fixing you.
There's no fixing.
Yeah.
There's no fixing it.
I get that.
I just, the thing that's interesting is like, um, when I look at the, the
communist paradigm
versus the capital, you know, that's coming back.
That paradigm's coming back.
And for a while it was kind of shoved off as like, that's boomer shit.
You know, but the cold war's over grandpa, right?
Cold war's over grandpa.
There's no communist versus capitalist versus that.
That's all.
It's like, not, it's not, it's not done.
No, not at all.
It's not done.
It's a story as old as time and it keeps fucking repeating itself.
And it's just weird that people, I look, but also I believe in social safety
nets because
I think that there's a lot of people that are very unfortunate and there's a
lot of people
that do grow up with shitty parents or parents that have a bad situation in
life.
Maybe the father dies or the mother dies and there's no, like, it's good to be
charitable
and churches are fantastic at that.
It's one of the more pure charities that you're ever going to find because
their goal is really
just to help those people.
Like what, what you think of as charities in the modern sense, one of the grossest
fucking
things today is these enormous charities that everybody thinks, oh, I'm going
to support
this charity.
It's doing so much good.
90% to the CEO.
Yeah, dude, I was watching this thing that was either, I think it was Live Aid,
you know,
one of those, uh, one of those concert things with Bono.
What was he involved in?
Was it Live Aid?
I don't remember, but Bono, Bono, I remember his speech where he was like,
capitalism's done
more to take people out of poverty than anything else.
I thought that was funny.
It is funny.
Yeah, but, uh, I don't remember which one he was involved in directly, but I
know what
you're referencing.
Well, Mike Benz did this video today where he's explaining how an enormous
percentage of
that money went to regime change, like it went to prop up, went to prop up CIA
operations,
like the fucking money that people donated so generously to the LA fires.
Did you ever see where all that went?
Where?
It went to like a hundred different nonprofits.
Like some of it was like, uh, uh, pro immigration.
Uh, it was, it was like, we, we, we, we talked about it the other day.
We had a whole list of all the different things that have been documented.
All NGOs.
That money.
Oh yeah.
That's all.
So very little money is ever going to go to the actual people that lost their
house.
Almost all the money is going to go to these nonprofits.
All these nonprofits have overhead.
It goes to their employees.
It goes to the overhead costs.
All these people got bonuses.
But isn't that the same with the state?
Half a million dollars went to bonuses.
Yeah, but that's the same with the state.
But how crazy is that?
You get a bonus for running a fucking charity?
That's crazy.
Huge.
Bonuses.
Huge bonuses.
Like hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions in bonuses.
And that's the homeless situation.
This is the other thing about the homeless situation in California.
Oh, we're going to help the homeless.
It's really important to donate to the homeless.
Let's help the homeless.
California spent $24 billion on the homeless problem.
It got worse.
Not only did it get worse, they can't account for the money.
And when the politicians have unanimously voted to try to do an audit to see
where the money goes,
Gavin Newsom has vetoed it.
It's wild.
Well, isn't it counterintuitive anyway?
If you're in an area and you say, look, we're going to be really good to the
homeless here.
We're going to give them a lot of money, a lot of entitlements.
We're going to really help them get on their feet.
If you were homeless in a neighboring state, where would you go?
Yeah, you'd move to the place with awesome weather.
They'll give you money.
Where they're going to give you money.
Yeah.
And so, you know, and they do.
They do just that.
And so that's why these budgets become very bloated, right?
People are like, wait a second.
There used to be three homeless guys over there.
Now there's a tent city.
What the hell is going on?
And they all get free crack.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or free needles in their needle exchange or whatever it is.
And it gets worse and worse.
The state does the same thing.
The state is allocating tons and tons of cash that it gets in Social Security
tax.
It's not going to Social Security.
It's like these entitlements and entitlement spending.
Well, when people found out that Social Security is going to illegal immigrants.
Oh, yeah.
An enormous amount of it.
They're like, wait, wait, what?
And they denied it.
They denied it.
And then, you know, they had to fess up to it and whistleblowers.
Well, why would you have a PAYGO system?
Why would you have a system where you're like, this is a social safety net that
you're paying
into for your retirement that you have to pay into?
Why wouldn't that go in a lockbox?
Why would you have a PAYGO, well, because we want access to that money right
now and we'll
pay it out later.
That's what we'll do.
We'll pay it out later.
It's like, what?
Why wouldn't you have it?
Sounds like misappropriation.
Of course.
It's wild that they're allowed to access the Social Security funds that are for
your retirement.
And then they're like, well, we're going to defund Social Security, so we'll
shut the
whole government down, right?
Because then you won't get your Social Security checks.
We'll weaponize the entitlement that should just be in a lockbox.
Yeah.
You know?
Well, we'll pass funding for it.
Funding for the thing they already paid?
Well, the idea also is that you are supposed to be paying into it so that you
will get money
when you retire, but your return on investment is so bad.
That's terrible.
And compared to what would happen if you spent that exact same money and put it
in like a
fund, a reliable fund, you would get so much more money when you retire.
Like an enormous difference.
Well, now I almost feel like it's hamstringing because if it was the case that
they let you
keep, you could just opt out, you know, I don't want Social Security, I want to
keep it.
And then you took that and you put it in those hedge funds and retirement
accounts and things
like this, you would way maximize over what you get in Social Security.
Yeah.
You know, so, but you can't opt out even though it's for you.
There's nothing the government does good, not a thing, not a single thing.
So why would they be good at that?
And why would anybody support that?
They're just not good at it, especially when it comes to money.
There's always a bunch of shenanigans that take place, you know, and the idea
that they
would say, oh, Social Security is sacred.
This, this we're going to really treat, we're going to maximize your, the
amount of investment
and really take care of people.
We really care about people.
Yeah.
We care about them tons.
It's so naive.
It's just, it's so naive and so obviously an ineffective and possibly corrupt
system.
Why hasn't it become a weapon?
Entitlements are a weapon.
Yeah.
They're a political weapon.
Well, it certainly helps.
Yeah.
And, and also, again, the suicidal empathy that Gad Saad talks about, if you're
on the
left, you think of it as being like, you're an empathetic person, a kind person,
you want
people to have money when they retire, you want people to have Medicaid and you
want people
to have welfare and you want people to have SNAP.
Who was the guy you brought up?
I'm trying to think of his name.
It was like maybe Professor Raft, something like that.
They brought up the Papua New Guinea thing.
Do you remember the Papua New Guinea thing?
Yes, I do.
Yeah.
So on the, that little island, right?
They have the Seminole people and the Seminole people, basically they molest
young boys.
That's what they do.
Right.
But apparently the young boys there, they love it because it's a right of manhood.
Right.
And it's all socially conditioned in.
The thing is, with suicidal empathy, that's really funny here to point out to a
leftist,
from their paradigm, there's nothing wrong with that actually.
Right.
Where's the harm?
Right?
That's part of the suicidal empathy, the part of the ideology of suicidal
empathy.
It's like, for me, from my worldview, it's like, I don't care if you don't
think there's
harm in that.
There is.
We're stopping it.
Emperor Andrew, done.
That's, that's done.
No more, that's not allowed.
I don't care if it's relativistic or not.
It's over.
Right?
Yeah.
I mean, it's crazy to try to defend that culture.
That culture is so wild.
The, the semen warriors of Papua New Guinea.
Yeah.
The semen warriors of Papua New Guinea.
For people who don't know, and let's, let's, instead of just talking about this,
let's read
this from an actual source so we can explain, because they call the, the, the
children, when
I think they're six, the boys have to live with a man that they refer to as the
anal father.
And this guy, and in order for them to grow strong, they have to consume semen,
both orally
and anally.
And so they get mouth fucked and ass fucked by this guy.
And then they continue that when they grow up.
As part of their warrior culture.
And what stopped it?
You know, it's what ended up finally stopping a lot of that.
It's not going on anymore.
It still is.
But it, a lot of it was stopped depending on the tribe you were in because of
Christian
missionaries.
Interesting.
Because of Christian missionaries.
But here's the thing that cracks me up, right?
In this whole culturally relativistic nonsense, harm principles stuff.
You're Christopher Columbus and you show up and if culture is doing that, don't
you put
them to the sword?
Right.
Like if you see the pyramids and they're cutting people's hearts out and like
we're holding
it up to raw or whatever, you're like, I'm supposed to feel bad that they put
you to the sword?
Like it's really hard for me to feel bad about that.
Right.
You know, it's really hard for me to be upset about that.
But with the Seminole people, same thing.
It's like if you went in there and you just use strong arm force, this is why
the libertarian
NAP and stuff like that I disagree with.
Because like if you went in there and used strong arm force and just stopped it
immediately,
so what?
So what?
How's the world a worse place for this?
How is it, you know, like, and how is that not ultimately stopping an egregious
sinful
act that you can stop with ease?
Right.
Like why not?
Why not do that?
Well, one of the things I got really into Aztecs recently and because I did, I
wasn't
aware that a lot of those temples that they found, you would think that the
people that
build those incredible pyramids and temples.
No, they found them, didn't they?
Yeah.
You would think they have to be an incredibly sophisticated society.
Well, it turns out they didn't really build them.
No, they found them.
They found them.
Yeah.
And they referred to them as the place where the gods were born.
I didn't know that.
I was always told that they built these incredible structures and then the Spaniards
came and
then they found them.
And no, when-
No, they were primitives who found something that was extremely advanced and
then used it
for their primitive application.
Not just primitive, but barbaric.
When they completed the consecration of the temple of Tenochtitlan, they killed
somewhere between
20,000 on the low end and 80,000 on the high end.
They sacrificed 20,000 to 80,000 people within four days.
In four days.
And this was documented by, God, I forget his name, something Diaz.
He was a Spanish chronicler.
Because this is before Cortez came.
You know, they started like trying to figure out what's going on over there.
And one of the things that this guy came back, he said, this place is fucking
crazy.
Like they killed 80,000 people and a lot of people have disputed that 80,000
people, but
then they found so many bones that they're like, okay, it's probably somewhere
north of
20,000, which is crazy enough.
They sacrificed him in four fucking days.
But morality is relative.
Right.
It was 4,000 maybe.
What's that, James?
As many as 4,000 was as max as they got to.
What do you mean, bones?
Yeah, the people, even if they did 20,000, I think the number I saw was four
people, or
it was like four people every minute you would have had to do, or it was
something almost
impossible to accomplish.
They just said the number was probably exaggerated a lot.
Right.
But they said that, no, I think if you, are you sure?
I looked at something you brought up last week.
But I looked it up too.
I looked it up yesterday, actually.
I looked it up yesterday and they were saying that this guy, who was the guy
that, okay,
we can, I can, I know I have it saved, so I can find it in here.
So this guy, this Diaz guy.
Who's chronicling this?
Yeah, who chronicled it in the 16th century.
How long before Cortez was this?
Really, really soon.
Okay.
Like within a couple of decades before Cortez.
Yeah.
Oh God, I'm trying to find it.
But it-
I was going to say maybe, I don't know, just the perplexity of things that
Spanish sources
claimed 80,400 victims in 1487.
Right.
That's it.
But modern estimates suggest 4,000 to maybe 20,000.
Right.
So 20, okay.
They don't really know.
So 20, 80,000 might be exaggerated if you think about the number, but just
think about
20,000 people.
Killing 20,000 people by cutting their hearts out and throwing them down the
steps of the
pyramid in four days is fucking crazy.
So if you're the Spaniards and you come here, you don't feel bad about conquering
those fuckers.
You're like, what are you guys doing?
Or how about when they showed up and they found the Mayans and they're playing
football with
human heads?
Yeah.
Now, here's a funny one.
They don't want to believe that they played football with human heads.
So historians try to say that they didn't play football with human heads, even
though there's
artistic depictions of them playing football with human heads.
They're like, no, that was just symbolic.
Well, did they sacrifice humans?
Yes, they did.
But if they played football with their heads, that would be rude.
It's that whole myth of the noble savage.
Exactly.
And that whole myth of the noble savage is something which is utilized by the
left in order to make
the claim that you are an imperialist and an occupier and a person who, yeah,
you have colonized
their land.
And the thing is, is it's like, if that's what we colonized, why do I care?
I ask this question all the time.
Why do I care if that's what I colonized, if that's what my ancestors colonized?
Why should I give a shit about that?
Well, there's an amazing book about Texas called Empire of the Summer Moon.
It's all about the Comanche.
This entire land used to be before Mexico owned it.
By the way, one of the funny things, this lady said to me, you know, this all
used to be Mexico.
I'm like, right.
But do you know how for how long?
15 years.
Like, I've been here for six.
Like, you got to let that go.
That's not that long.
15 years.
And by the way, Mexico was only one.
And we had an Alamo over it, okay?
Yeah.
And by the way, Mexico was only one when it owned Texas.
Mexico started in 1820.
With its new constitution?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because then also, you have the language and the religion of your oppressors
that you're
trying to say is this noble and incredible culture that you're bringing over to
America.
And you're all Catholic.
Yeah, you're all Catholic.
You all speak Spanish.
They used to have, first of all, the people, the Native American people and the
original
people and the Aztecs, the Mayans, the Mexicans, it's essentially the same kind
of people.
A lot of them are, they look the same.
It's like, if you look at Sitting Bull, he looks like he could be working at a
taqueria.
My wife calls them the pygmy people.
Oh, they're tiny little people in Maya.
Yeah, it says the pygmy people.
They probably didn't have any protein.
They have flat noses and they like, yeah, they look like pygmy people.
Well, the original people of Mexico had, or what the land of Mexico, had over
100 languages.
The Mayans alone had 30 different languages.
They're all lost.
Like, these languages are all lost.
And we're supposed to think it's noble, that this amazing culture that have the
language
and the religion of their oppressors, and they want to move here with this
language.
They're colonizing.
You're trying to colonize a place.
You've been colonized.
You're trying to colonize.
And here's the thing about colonizing.
Everybody, everybody that doesn't live in Africa, somewhere in their ancestry,
there was a colonizer.
Like, if you go to Minnesota, and you see these Somali communities, and
everyone's speaking Somali,
they have Somali businesses, what do you think that is?
It's a colony.
Of course.
It's just not a big one.
It just hasn't taken over the entire country.
And when it does, you'll think it's great because they're not white.
Right.
Well, they're not colonizers.
They're not colonizers.
They're immigrants.
They're immigrants.
Yeah.
Right, white people are colonizers.
Yeah, white people are the colonizers.
Everyone else is the immigrant.
Nobody feels bad for Swedish chicks with big tits that are moving to America.
You don't think that those are colonists.
Yeah.
Don't care.
Yeah.
Don't care.
Nobody cares.
It's only the colonization.
Oh, man.
Well, the thing is funny, moving back to the myth of the noble savage thing,
how weaponized
that is when so much of it isn't true.
Like, for instance, you've heard of the Two Spirits.
Yes.
That's all bullshit, too.
The whole Two Spirit people, all bullshit.
Came from, like, one guy.
I don't remember.
It started with a B, right?
Who, like, Bardetche or something like this that they called him, right?
And it was one tribe of people who had some, like, weird thing that they did.
That was it.
Well, it was probably gay guys.
Yeah.
It was probably gay guys that, like, dressing up like women.
Yeah, that's where the whole Two Spirit thing came.
And then suddenly it's like, no, the Native Americans had the Two Spirit.
It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
That is not the case at all.
You just made it up because then you could throw it in with your Skittles
bullshit.
Right.
So that's the-
The rainbow.
Yeah.
Throw it in with the Skittles bullshit.
The rainbow.
Yeah.
Well, the thing about this area here, before Mexico owned it, it was Comancheria.
It was owned by the Comanche.
But you know how they owned it?
Because they killed the fucking Apache.
That's how-
Colonizers.
Yeah.
Well, they were fucking brutal.
That's why this Empire of the Summer Moon book is so good.
Because it just shows you how unbelievably barbaric the Comanche were.
They were the baddest motherfuckers around.
Because they had figured out horse raising.
And by the way, they only got those from Spanish.
Yeah.
Yeah.
From Europeans, right?
Yeah.
Which is crazy.
Because horses actually originated in North America.
I thought they were in Europe and brought here from Europe.
Horses.
No.
Horses originated in North America and then made their way to Asia and then
were wiped out
in North America and then reintroduced by the Spanish.
But the natives didn't have access to them until Europeans brought them.
Okay.
That's what I thought.
Their culture was so incredibly wild.
If you think about it, you're talking about, you think about Europe and Asia,
you've got
people riding horses and building cities and you've got agriculture and all
these things.
And in North America, you basically have Stone Age people.
It's really kind of crazy.
Really kind of fascinating.
And then they get horses and the Comanches were the first ones that really
figure out
horse breeding.
They figured out how, you know, how to castrate their horses.
And they became Mongols.
Yeah.
They basically became Mongols.
Yeah.
They became Mongols once they had access to horses.
Yeah.
Well, that was what, that was the whole distinction anyway.
If you reduce it all between the two civilizations, Europeans had domesticatable
animals, natives
didn't.
Right.
And because we had domesticatable animals, we had labor, we built these, these
amazing
societies and they didn't.
Yeah.
Like the difference that a work ox and a workhorse can make in labor is
astronomical.
Yeah.
And so, you know, like, um, that's, that's the real difference.
Same thing with disease.
They're like, ah, you know, the whites brought over all their diseases.
Like, well, all those came from animals, smallpox, all that got immunity
because we were
of animal husbandry.
They didn't have any immunity to any of that.
Not only that, there's real evidence that syphilis came from native Americans
and then they brought
that, at least some forms of syphilis and they brought that syphilis back to
Europe.
And then all the Europeans started going crazy and getting holes in their head
and losing
all their hair.
And that's where the big wigs came from.
And then eating mercury pills to cure themselves.
It's crazy what people used to believe.
Yeah.
It's really kind of fascinating.
But the point is, even the people that lived in America before the settlers
came,
those people came from somewhere else.
They came from Siberia.
You know, everyone's a colonizer.
Everyone.
All over the world.
People that you start in Africa million years ago, whatever it is.
And then people start slowly moving away from the people that were kicking
their ass,
looking for a better place to live.
But isn't the whole thing from the leftist paradigm just to create or to delegitimize
the fact
that you can say, what do you mean?
My grandpa was born here.
Right.
His grandpa was born here.
Right.
He was a colonizer.
I'm an American and I have a right to my nation because by birth, I have a
birthright to the land that I'm on.
And so do my fellow countrymen.
And they, nope, it's an attempt to delegitimize that.
Right.
That's the whole point.
Just to delegitimize your claim to your own land.
Well, it's what we were talking about earlier with leftists, where there's this
purity test that no one can ever pass
because they'll always keep pushing the boundaries further and further.
You're never going to be, there's no like real Americans.
Everyone who's white is a colonizer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just, it's fucking goofy.
And it's just designed to point at someone that someone is the bad person.
And this is the reason why life sucks.
And also dismiss any of the terrible activities that any of the other people
participate in because like, oh, they're, they're just oppressed.
They're oppressed people.
So they're lashing out.
Do you think like if you had, if you, again, the bird's eye view, what do you
think the left, what do you think their end goal is here?
I don't think they know.
I don't think their end goal.
Their end goal is their enemy is the right.
And the right is Nazis and fascists.
They want to eliminate the Nazis and they want to roll initiative.
Right.
They want to roll initiative, right?
Yeah, they want, and they think.
2D6 damage, it's happening.
And they think that once they get into power, everything will be fine.
But it's not going to.
And not only that, what would be fascinating is if someone from the left
started behaving exactly like the people that are on the right just did it from
a perspective of the left.
Where you would think, oh, this is okay.
And that's what we got during the Obama administration.
I sent you this thing, Jamie, a little bit ago.
The clip of Obama talking about immigration.
And by the way, Obama, and I was mistaken on this.
I thought that a lot of the people that Obama deported were people that were
turned away at the border.
Uh-uh.
That was a third.
Most of the people out of the, I think it was 3 million over the course of his
presidency, that were deported were fucking deported.
Like, arrested, deported, a lot of people were killed.
Let's put it on the headphones so we can listen to this speech.
Because this sounds very MAGA.
Listen to this.
There are those in the immigrants' rights community who have argued passionately
that we should simply provide those who are illegally with legal status.
Or, at least, ignore the laws on the books and put an end to deportation until
we have better laws.
And often this argument is framed in moral terms.
Why should we punish people who are just trying to earn a living?
I recognize the sense of compassion that drives this argument.
But I believe such an indiscriminate approach would be both unwise and unfair.
It would suggest to those thinking about coming here illegally that there will
be no repercussions for such a decision.
And this could lead to a surge in more illegal immigration.
And it would also ignore the millions of people around the world who are
waiting in line to come here legally.
Ultimately, our nation, like all nations, has the right and obligation to
control its borders and set laws for residency and citizenship.
And no matter how decent they are, no matter their reasons, the 11 million who
broke these laws should be held accountable.
That sounds so Republican.
In 2010, that was a Democrat saying that.
And everybody was like, well, okay.
That's reasonable.
Yeah.
And rational.
Tom Homan, who is the head now, was the guy then.
And he gave him a fucking medal.
Find the clip of Hillary when she's running in 2012 where Hillary is more MAGA
than Trump.
The way she frames things is so hardcore right wing she sounds to the right of
Marjorie Taylor Greene.
If you've never seen this, have you seen this one?
I think so, but I'm going to look again.
It's wonderful.
It's wonderful.
Because it just shows you how much horseshoe—by the way, how good was he?
He was such a good spokesperson.
Like, the way he talked was so—it was so measured and so noble in the way he
phrased his sentences.
Like, it was really—it's really interesting how much perception plays a
factor in what you think of as, like, someone being a good president.
Because everybody on the left thinks of him as being, like, the most amazing
president ever.
Oh, yeah.
No, this isn't the one.
And he wasn't.
It keeps coming up, though, what I'm looking for.
But this isn't the one—the one is she's giving a speech.
That's what I thought I was looking for, but I didn't even type in what I was
looking for.
I just typed in 2012, and that's the thing that keeps—
Maybe it's not 2012.
It might have been 2008.
Don't—don't—do—Hillary is more MAGA than Trump.
See if you can find it.
It's—I know it's on YouTube, but it's this amazing campaign speech.
Where's—you got it?
This is 2008.
Is it 2008?
Yeah, that's it.
That's it.
Here it is.
Listen to this.
I love this one.
I think we gotta have tough conditions.
Tell people to come out of the shadows.
If they've committed a crime, deport them.
No questions asked.
They're gone.
If they—
Cheers.
Cheers from the Democrats.
If they've been working and are law-abiding, we should say, here are the
conditions for
you staying.
You have to pay a stiff fine because you came here illegally.
You have to pay back taxes, and you have to try to learn English, and you have
to wait
in line.
You're gonna learn English?
Everybody's cheering.
Yeah, they love it.
They love it.
And now—
Now you're a Nazi.
Trump's a Nazi.
Yeah.
Trump's a Nazi.
That is more right-wing than Marjorie Taylor Greene.
Yeah, the Democrats were—I mean, there used to be labor unions that would put
pressure
on them, right?
This was a big thing.
Like, there was labor unions.
That was what the Democrats had.
Yes.
And the labor unions did not want the cheap labor to come in and displace them
from having
their nice little high-wage jobs.
Exactly.
And so it was all about, we got to deport the illegals.
Like, what did Bernie Sanders say?
Mass illegal immigration is a right-wing Koch brothers conspiracy to bring in
cheap labor.
And he wasn't wrong.
Right.
Okay?
He wasn't wrong.
He wasn't wrong.
But the thing is, is it's like, what the hell are we fighting over here?
Well, we're fighting over the fact that the left is just trying to ingratiate
itself with
power, and they don't really care about what the moral paradigm is.
As long as they can get their people in power, they'll use anything as a lichpin
issue.
That's right.
That's right.
It's all about power.
The whole thing is about power.
And that's what people need to truly understand.
You're being played.
You're being played.
You're being played in Minneapolis.
You're being played all around the country.
It's about power.
It's about them getting power.
And if you think that once they get complete, if they did, they were successful,
they imported
millions more to all these swing states, they allowed them to vote, they
completely rigged
the system.
Now it's only, you think that's going to be good for everybody?
You're out of your fucking mind.
Let me ask you this.
Do you think then that Christians knowing this, they know that these are bids
for power
when you have Christian nationalism on the rise and Christians moving towards
that,
doesn't that seem like it's a rational and reasonable thing to do for them to
want?
The mindset of if we're not in power, they will be in power.
It's rational from their perspective, for sure.
What people are terrified of is that it would restrict the freedom of religion
and that you
would impose Christianity on the entire country.
And I don't think you should impose any kind of religion on any people.
I think people should be free.
I've never seen the, I know that there are, of course, the people who push that
there has
to be an established theocracy in order for Christian nationalism to work.
But the frameworks that I've seen that have political legitimacy don't seem to
push for
that at all.
They push instead that the idea is that Christians should not be hamstrung from
the ideals of holding
power itself.
That that does not make you bad or evil or awful, no matter what the left says
Christian
or how Christians are supposed to act.
And that when you are in power, you should rule with Christian ethics in mind.
That's how you're supposed to pass policy, public, you know, public, public
policy of all
kinds is through those ethical means.
That's what it sounds like.
Not, hey, it's going to be a theocracy.
Right.
That doesn't seem like it's a necessary component.
No.
Well, people are afraid of the concept of a theocracy.
And I think that people are afraid of just human nature and that if people did
get into
power, that that's what it would become.
Just like these people are just trying to get into power, that they would use
Christianity
as a vehicle and they would just use that as an ability to control people.
The real concern is just human nature.
Human beings, when they get into any position of power, like to keep it and
expand it.
It's like that's what they do.
You know, I tell jokes.
I talk shit.
That's what I do.
I like to talk shit.
I like to tell more jokes.
But there have been good kings, right?
There have been.
But boy, good luck.
Good luck finding a benevolent dictator.
Well, not anymore.
I don't think you would have to use it, utilize a dictatorship.
But if it's the case that we can point to, like, there were people who had a
lot of
power who fundamentally were pretty good, what was it that they're pointing to
that made
them good?
Like, is there something we can point society towards that can make our leaders
a bit better,
that can make our leadership not hyper focus on the nonsense of, like, gay
marriage and stuff
like that, which is completely and totally unimportant at the political level?
It shouldn't even be up to the federal government anyway.
Yeah, and I think it's a political tool, too.
You know, Anna Paulina Luna was on the podcast, and she said something that I
really didn't
consider about certain political problems that exist in this country that they
don't want
to solve them because they want to use them to finance their campaigns.
They want to run on those principles.
They want to run on that big problem.
It needs to always be there.
It needs to always be there.
It needs to always be there as an issue.
It's like, I think a lot of these can be solved.
Like, if we were to have politicians in mass and their supporters in mass who
followed Christian
ethics, I do think a lot of those sub-issues get solved very quickly.
If it's true Christianity, if they really do follow the teachings of Jesus
Christ.
But I think what people are really worried about is, like, when people think
about Christians,
they think about the worst-case scenario of Christianity, which is like
evangelicals on television
that just try to get private jets.
But how is electing atheists better or electing socialists better or electing
any of these
people better?
It can't be better, right?
Right.
It's not better.
Like, if someone's a complete sociopath that doesn't have any moral framework
like a Gavin
Newsom type guy.
Yeah.
Like, that's even more terrifying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's like, if I'm going to be ruled, can I at least be ruled by people who
have my ethics
or...
Who really believe in that they're trying to make the world a better place and
they're not just
trying to acquire wealth and help their donors acquire more wealth?
It's spooky.
It's spooky because people that have power, you know, it scares the shit out of
everybody
else.
And it should because historically, it's never been good.
It's almost always when people have power, they want more power.
And they want to also support the people that helped them acquire that power.
And then they want to make sure they got that power locked down.
So what's the best way to do that?
Well, you restrict people's ability to express themselves, restrict people's
ability to travel.
You take away as much money as possible, tax them as highly as possible.
So they're always in this, like, state of constantly struggling to pay their
bills.
You keep them...
No one's comfortable ever.
And then, you know, have this problem that we have to solve.
This is why you have a problem.
It's these people.
Yeah.
And we're the solution.
The causers.
Yeah.
The causers are the solution.
Do you...
You know, one of the things that I...
You engage in so many fucking debates, man.
I've watched...
I've consumed a lot of your content online.
And I always wonder, like, does that wear on you after a while?
Constantly.
Oh, yeah.
All the time.
All the time.
Well, the thing is, is it...
So I argue from a worldview.
My worldview is Christian ethics.
And this is a foundation from which all other arguments are starting and ending.
Now, I'm happy to meet people in the middle.
A lot of people want to argue in the middle, right?
We're going to get past all the foundational stuff.
And we're going to go to the menu or the middle of the argument and start there.
And I'm kind of happy to do that to kind of move the...
Move everything backwards or forwards so we can either get to the end or we can
get to
the beginning and get this figured out.
Yes.
What wears on me the most about it is there's a lot of people who I debate with
who I know
don't believe what they're saying.
I know.
I know for sure.
And there's moments where I catch myself where I recognize it right then, that
moment
in the debate.
And then I'll hammer them.
But it happens all the time where I'm like, you don't believe that shit.
There's no way.
And then they'll come back with a...
You know, with a...
I do.
And you can just tell it's disingenuous.
Yeah.
Right?
I can't logically show it.
There's no way for me to logically show necessarily your motivation, maybe in
extreme context.
But yeah, man, there's people who are pretty disingenuous about their view.
And there's times where it comes out and the whole audience can see it and you
can see it.
And you're just like, just why?
Just why are you...
Like, you don't even believe the shit yourself and you're propagating it on
other people and
you know people will follow it.
You know, there's some cash there.
You know, there's a...
But you're doing it anyway.
You're doing it anyway.
Like, I've always thought in my head, you take a guy like Destiny, right?
The Coomer Gremlin, as I like to call him, okay?
What do you call him?
The what?
The Coomer Gremlin.
What's that mean?
Well, like Coomer, like he just, all he does is he basically...
What's that word?
Coomer?
He's like a sexual degenerate, right?
Is that what a Coomer is?
Yeah.
Well, a Coomer, it's a little more mild than that.
A Coomer is just like kind of one of the higher values is just kind of having
sex with everyone, right?
It's around, like that's what you do.
But he's like bisexual, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
He did, yeah.
Well, he's all kinds of sexual apparently.
But the thing is, is like I've often thought that there's times when I'm
talking to the guy
where I'm like, you don't believe that.
Like you just, there's no fucking way you believe that shit.
You're making it up.
And I know you're making it up, right?
And you'll catch him at times and be like, whatever I got to say to win the
argument.
Yeah.
And it's like, yeah, I believe that.
Yeah.
I believe that.
But it's like, there are people who genuinely believe their view and are
excellent debaters
backing their view.
And I love those engagements.
You know, I live for those engagements.
The problem is, it's like, it's 5% of them.
Right.
A lot of people are just trying to win, right?
Well, not just trying to win, but I don't even have a problem with going into a
debate
with a mindset of winning it.
If you're representing a view, you believe.
Right.
You want to win the engagement.
Whether it's a conversation or it's a debate, you want to win people over to
your side.
You want to even win the person you're talking to over to your side.
You know, or maybe sometimes you got to be brutal and destroy the view
completely so people
don't move towards it.
Both of those are completely, I consider them both fine.
And I think they're both effective.
But the issue that I have ultimately is when you're arguing with somebody and
you know they
don't believe what they're saying.
Yeah.
And yeah, that wears on you.
And it's not just that, but sometimes you hear the same recycled arguments over
and over
and over.
And I'm like, you don't even have to tell me anymore.
I can get to the end before you can.
I can tell you exactly where you're going to go, what you're going to say, why
you're going
to say it, what your justification is going to be.
And I can just get to the end and take care of this right now.
It's got to be weird.
How old are you?
42.
Just turned 42.
So it's got to be weird, like in your late 30s, early 40s, to like have entered
into this
world.
Oh yeah, dude.
That would be so strange.
It is beyond bizarre.
I mean, to be like a normal, working class guy.
Literal nobody from nowhere.
No political experience, nothing.
I had no entryway, nobody in entertainment, nobody to help me along, nothing.
And so was it just seeing how ridiculous people were being during the COVID
pandemic that like
motivated you to be vocal about all this stuff?
Well, and I had time.
Yeah.
You know, time's a big one.
But with the layoff, it's like, oh, well, I don't really have a lot to do.
And I'm listening to this.
And it's like, now I can, maybe I can engage a little.
Maybe I can get involved a little bit.
You know, not much.
I didn't think, I didn't think anything would ever come of it.
You know what I mean?
I just wanted, I saw my view wasn't being represented very well.
But did you have a history of education?
Like, were you, were you just reading books?
Like, where did you develop these ideas?
Yeah, well, it wasn't just from books, right?
I would listen to long form, you know, historic podcasts.
I would, more than anything, I would be listening to, you know, the mediums
changed, but I would
listen to what people had to say on a variety of issues.
And I would watch the news incessantly, and I would be able to pick out what's
true and
what's not true after a while.
Political education comes from a variety of sources.
You can't get it from the news, and you can't get it from listening to just
podcasts, and you
can't listen, get it by just talking to people.
You have to take a sum total of everything, all of it, in order to at least be
even moderately
politically savvy and understand what's going on in the world.
And I realize most people make commentary on things that they have no fucking
idea what
they're talking about.
Right.
And so how did you transition to doing this as a job?
Well, it was about two years in to doing this.
I was like, look, I sat down with my wife, and I said, I'm not making enough
money.
On my podcast to quit my job, there's no way, or doing debates to quit my job,
there's
no way.
But I think I could.
I actually think I could, if I just focused my time on it now.
I think I could do it, replace my income with ease.
God, that's a big risk, right?
It was a huge risk.
Because you have a family.
Yeah, huge risk.
Yeah.
And she said, okay.
Wow.
Gave me a kiss, and next day I went in, quit, and I was like, I don't know what
the fuck
I just did.
I was like, I don't know.
I was, you know, it's, in some ways it was like, it's like, oh, I'm going to go
be a
big football star, you know, screw you to your boss, you know what I mean?
And it's like, it wasn't the same exactly, but it was a big risk.
But I just thought, you know, I really can make a go of this.
If I can focus my time and energy on this, I think I'll do really well at it.
Well, I think you have a very unique mind for it, and I think you're very good
at it.
And I also think you have really good points that are very valuable for people
to hear.
And you're really good at pointing out the logical fallacies and pointing out
the ridiculous
thought processes that a lot of these people have.
And I, you know, that's important, man.
It's important for society.
I mean, probably don't think of it that way.
Probably just enjoy doing it and feel like it's, but it's valuable because
there's not
a lot of people that are good at it.
I get hundreds of DMs weekly from people and they'll say things, and this,
again, I'll never
get used to it.
But what I do, this is my process, I sit down every morning, I have a cup of
coffee, and
I just respond to every DM that's sent to me.
Wow.
So, for me, yeah, you probably get too many, right?
Yeah, it's untypical.
I get, I thought so too.
I thought, well, if I start getting hundreds every day, there's just no way,
but I still
do it every morning.
How much time does it take you?
It takes me hours, about two hours.
Wow.
Two hours every morning, I'll sit down and I'll go through them, and I can't
send back
long paragraphs, but usually I'll read exactly what they say, and even I'll
just say something
like, thanks for the support, or, you know, I really appreciate you saying that,
that means
a lot, you know, because it does.
Yeah.
To me, it's my privilege to have fans.
It's not their privilege to be one.
And so, when I started to see that, and I started to see, wait, this actually
does have
a massive effect on people.
I also began taking it very much more seriously, because I understood, I can
also say things
that do the opposite.
They could move people towards the opposite of things which are good, you know
what I mean?
Or things which are, things which you should be moving towards.
And so, you know, I do take it seriously, and I understand my job is to
represent a worldview.
And when I go into a debate, that's exactly what I think.
Millions of people are going to see this worldview on display.
I'm representing it, I need to do the best I can to represent it well.
Well, to be an intelligent, reasonable person who's both well-read and has very
good points
that you can express about social issues, societal issues, it's a massive thing.
It's a very important thing that, you know, mainstream media is not doing a
good job of
filling that role.
It just doesn't.
You know, there's not a lot of people out there.
I mean, Christopher Hitchens is dead.
There's not a lot of people out there that are really good at debating against
ridiculous
people and exposing this.
And it's so important for people to sit down and see something like that and to
recognize
like, oh, I've heard people like that talk.
Oh, I've always wondered, like, that doesn't make any sense.
Why doesn't someone tell that guy to shut the fuck up?
Why doesn't someone got...
And you do that.
And that's my job.
That's your job.
My job is to go in specifically and say, why don't you shut the fuck up?
Because what you're saying is so detrimental to people, too.
And it's nightmare fuel for them.
Like, I mean, people hear this stuff, man.
Like, I remember this one guy, he DM'd me, and he was like, Andrew, I hate
these fucking
people.
Like, I hate them.
He said, I'll listen to them, man.
And I just fucking rage in my truck.
I'm like, I fucking hate these bastards.
He's like, but I can't stop listening.
He's like, and his mindset was, I want to know what the enemy's thinking, right?
That's his mindset.
Yeah.
And I think a lot of it is maybe that particular guy's addicted to rage or
whatever, whatever
you want to frame it.
I don't think so.
I think the truth is, is that when people are trying to get to the bottom of
things, they're
trying to be like, why is this happening?
Why is this going on?
Why do these people think the way they do?
And then they start listening to them.
Sometimes it's way worse than you thought.
It's like, you really believe that shit?
You really think that that's the case?
You really think that we should be doing anything like this?
What is wrong with you?
Yeah.
And I think that for a lot of people, that could be a very kind of like jarring
experience
for them.
And I think that that's healthy, though.
I think that's healthy for you to be kind of jarred out of complacency a little
bit.
It's certainly healthy for other people to watch it because certain people lean
in one direction
or the other, and they're not really exactly sure how they feel about things.
And sometimes someone who has bad ideas can be very compelling with these bad
ideas because
they're not being confronted by someone who's better at it.
You know, and I think that's a very important-
Or even as good.
Yeah.
You know, even if you just draw a stalemate, it's like sometimes even that's
good enough
because it's like, you know, maybe I was leaning towards this or I was leaning
towards that,
but I'm not sure again.
Sometimes that's the best thing, right?
Maybe you shouldn't be too sure on this side or that side.
Right.
But, you know, before you commit, at least maybe I can stop you from making a
committal
to this.
Tons of people are like, man, I was on the fence about Christianity, and I was
on the
fence about orthodoxy, I was on the fence about this, I was on the fence about
that.
This debate did it for me, listening to what these people had to say.
This debate did it for me.
This debate did it for me.
You know, different fans have different highlights that they like because they're
all coming from
different walks of life, but they're all very similar in one aspect.
Most of my audience are married men.
You know, or marriageable age, you know, late 20s through 30s, early 40s.
That's about the demographic, but mostly like 32 to 45.
And so these people, they have some life experience.
They're not dummies.
And they're listening to it and they're like, it's about time someone told that.
You know, somebody let them know what was going on.
Somebody challenged those ideas.
Somebody buried them.
And yeah, that's what I'm effective at doing.
And that's what I'm going to keep doing because these people are, and the
higher, here's what I've learned.
The higher I go in confrontation with the higher level people, the dumber they
get.
Really?
The dumber they get.
Back in the old Twitch blood sport days when it was 50 live viewers and me
against two leftists and we were slugging it out.
They were smarter.
They were, these were much smarter people than the high level academic.
Like it took on these two academics recently at debate con.
Both of them are Ivy League graduates.
Right.
It was nothing.
I could have, I could have easily destroyed them while enjoying a hot bowl of
soup.
It would not have, like it was just, it was, it was inconsequential.
Why do you think that is?
I, well, I think it's because of, there's a degree of ass kissing and there's a
degree of people around you affirming over and over and over how fucking great
you are.
That's where that egotism comes in where I'm saying earlier in the podcast, you
have to be, make sure you're grounded, make sure that your ego never takes over.
Make sure that you don't become the thing that you hate.
Right.
Right.
And it's so easy to do.
But it's also, I think, I think that as they go, things become more cerebral
and academic rather than applicable.
And those kind of old debates that I was doing was people living in it, not
external from it.
And so they, you know, it did, they had real emotion behind it.
This wasn't just a thing on a chalkboard.
Right.
You know, so, and the other thing is I think a lot of people get where they are
in media through connections and not because of merit.
I think a lot of people who are in media and are political pundits have no
fucking business being there at all.
They're dumb as a box of rocks and they're there because they had connections
or they had friends who assisted them in getting in the position they are.
And when they are actually confronted on their views, they fall apart.
They totally fall apart.
I've seen comedians, comics who were on the road for years, do better in
academic debates than academics.
Yeah.
And I go, well, how is this possible?
Well, it's possible because that guy has real world experience.
He's probably just as well read as you had a lot of downtime.
Right.
So he educated himself, but he can do the thing you can't.
He can apply it.
That guy, he has a way to apply this knowledge in a framework that works
because he's part of the apparatus of the world.
And there was nobody there where he was like, he tugged on their shirt sleeve
and said, hey, daddy, or hey, you know, Uncle Bucks or whoever, you know, I
want to be on Fox News.
And now they have an in, you know, and I think a lot of that in media happens.
I think it's very, very, a lot of nepotism there.
And a lot of people got no business being there at all.
Don Lemon.
Don Lemon.
Not just Don Lemon.
I mean, there's so many.
I just like to pick on him because he picked on me.
Yeah.
Well, I don't know what Don Lemon's doing picking on anybody.
Like you would, you would, same thing.
You would destroy Lemon while enjoying a hot bowl of soup.
It would just be nothing.
Because Lemon's biggest problem is he had never had any business.
He was, he was a token, literally a token.
He was the token gay black guy.
Yeah.
He was not valued for his great insights and wonderful political takes and the
fantastic way in which he broke down the issues of our time.
He was valued because he was a gay dude who was black, who was like liberal
talking points.
Yeah.
That's it.
Yeah.
I agree.
Hey, listen, man, I enjoyed this.
Let's do it again sometime.
And tell everybody your show, The Crucible, where they can find it.
Yeah.
My show is The Crucible on YouTube.
You can also make sure you go and grab a copy of my wife's book, Occult Feminism.
It's fantastic.
I brought you a copy, Joe.
Cool.
And then I know you, I know you love feminists.
That's why I brought, that's why I brought that copy.
And then you can also catch me, Debate University.
It's a thing that I've done for years.
It, it'll teach you how to debate.
You can go check that out as well, debateuniversity.com.
I really appreciate the time.
Hey, I appreciate you being here, man.
I think what you're doing is great.
I really do.
I enjoy it.
Thanks.
All right.
Bye, everybody.
Bye, everybody.