#2239 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

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Derek is the fitness educator and entrepreneur behind the "MorePlates, More Dates" YouTube channel, podcast, and companion website. http://www.moreplatesmoredates.com https://www.youtube.com/@MorePlatesMoreDates

ChatJRE - Chat with the JRE chatbot

Timestamps

0:09Social media gore algorithms, porn spam, and the economics of OnlyFans
9:57AI girlfriends, fake influencers, and outrage-bait social media
19:57USADA criticism, anti-doping loopholes, and EPO testing in combat sports

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Transcript

0:00

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

0:03

The Joe Rogan experience.

0:05

Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

0:09

So, we just watched this, what is this exact job?

0:16

We watched this guy get assassinated, which is kind of, I've seen more people

0:22

assassinated

0:23

and killed over the last two years on Instagram than I ever have in my whole

0:27

life.

0:28

Oh, yeah, dude, the Explore page now is a disaster.

0:31

It's just like me and Tom Segura have this thing where we send each other the

0:35

most fucked

0:36

up thing we find every day.

0:37

Yeah, yeah.

0:38

It's a brutal text thread, but because of it, now I'm locked into this

0:42

algorithm.

0:43

He's the CEO of their insurance unit, which I don't know what the difference is

0:47

and what

0:47

people are.

0:48

He is CEO, but.

0:49

A targeted attack by a gunman waiting for him, a real assassination, 6.45 a.m.

0:54

outside the

0:55

Hilton on 6th Avenue, where the company's annual investor conference is about

0:59

to take place.

0:59

Yeah, man.

1:01

I wonder what's going on with that.

1:04

That's one of those things that just makes conspiracy theorists go cuckoo.

1:08

I'm sure there's some real good theories floating around on X right now.

1:13

Oh, for sure.

1:14

Is there?

1:15

I have all of us.

1:16

It's got to be.

1:18

The investor meeting has now been canceled, obviously, but so that was maybe

1:21

the goal.

1:22

What's worse, your X Explorer page or your Instagram?

1:26

My Instagram.

1:29

Oh, really?

1:30

Yeah.

1:31

I don't.

1:32

I just follow.

1:34

I mean, I follow a lot of people on both X and Instagram.

1:37

I don't know if it's necessarily a good thing, but when someone says something

1:40

interesting

1:41

or they post something interesting on Instagram, I just immediately follow.

1:44

Like, let's see.

1:44

Let's see if this will be fun.

1:46

But the thing about Twitter or X is that, like, I don't interact enough to have

1:53

a really fucked

1:54

up algorithm.

1:55

I'm mostly just reading stuff.

1:57

I don't really hardly ever, like, post anything.

2:01

I think the problem is I'll click to watch a full video of the fucked up things

2:07

so that

2:07

it reinforces the algorithm.

2:09

Oh, yeah.

2:09

Like, oh, you want to see this guy get shot or, oh, you want to see this car

2:14

accident.

2:15

We'll give you more of those.

2:16

Because I've seen so many people get run over by cars.

2:18

Oh.

2:18

So many people.

2:20

Yeah.

2:21

Yeah, it's crazy because a lot of the stuff I've seen in the past year, I didn't

2:25

even

2:25

know could be on the internet.

2:26

Right.

2:27

I don't know how it is when there's so many things you can't put on.

2:30

Do you know that there's a loophole that the ladies use to show their breasts?

2:33

Which one?

2:35

Fake boobs.

2:36

Fake baby.

2:37

Oh, no.

2:38

Yeah, they use a fake baby.

2:39

So they breastfeed.

2:40

So you got these girls, these big juicy melons, and they pull one out and have

2:44

a rubber baby,

2:45

and the rubber baby's sucking on the tit.

2:46

And the baby looks so fake.

2:48

That's hilarious.

2:50

But they can get some, like, pretty realistic fake babies.

2:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:54

Like, what was that movie with the sniper movie about Chris Kyle?

3:00

What was that called?

3:01

Remember?

3:02

There was a movie where he had a fake baby, and it was, like, so obvious.

3:05

He's got this, like, rubber baby, and he's, like, holding on to his child in

3:09

this stupid

3:09

scene.

3:10

I'm pretty sure on Twitter you can just post nudity without any problems, right?

3:17

You can post pornography.

3:18

Yeah.

3:18

Dude, the replies to a lot of tweets that are irrelevant to porn, it'll just be

3:24

like, that's

3:25

cool, but have you seen my pussy?

3:26

It'll be like some chick promoting her OnlyFans.

3:30

That's so common now.

3:32

And I just, like, the discourse is, like, half infested at this point.

3:38

They had this one lady who was saying she made $40 million this year on OnlyFans.

3:44

Oh, yeah.

3:45

That's nuts.

3:46

$40 million.

3:47

And she's a virgin, I guess, and she doesn't post sex stuff.

3:49

Sure.

3:50

Sure she's a virgin.

3:51

Sure.

3:53

She's a 23-year-old big-tittied virgin.

3:55

The only one that exists in the whole world.

3:58

See, that's an interesting scenario, if true, because it's, like, a lot of

4:06

dudes

4:06

want to shit on these chicks for being, like, prostitutes, essentially.

4:12

Right.

4:12

But, like, if she was actually a virgin and she's posting, like, almost nude,

4:18

but not

4:19

quite, but making a bunch of money off it, there's, like, two contradictory

4:22

things going

4:23

on right now.

4:24

Yeah, she wins.

4:25

But the problem is, this is, I mean, I don't want to tell anybody to not do

4:29

anything.

4:30

Like, ladies, you do what you want, you do you.

4:32

If I was a young, pretty girl, I'd probably be on OnlyFans.

4:36

I'd probably make some money.

4:37

Fuck it.

4:37

Why would I want to be a waitress when I could just show my tits?

4:40

That's how I would look at it.

4:41

The problem is twofold.

4:44

One, you become addicted to an extraordinary amount of money if you're

4:47

successful at it,

4:48

right?

4:48

So there's, like, a scale of people on the OnlyFans, apparently.

4:51

Most of the OnlyFans, we talked about this, right?

4:54

Like, most of the gals don't make that much money.

4:56

Most of them.

4:57

Yeah, I mean, that's what's that much?

5:00

Six figures or millions or?

5:01

No, like, even less.

5:03

Like, most of them make a few thousand dollars a month.

5:05

I think so.

5:06

I think out of this 43, one guy paid her five million, she said.

5:09

Dude, that's insane.

5:13

Dude, it would suck, too, is if you went full board and you did, like, actual

5:17

porn and just

5:18

got, like, banged on camera just for thinking you're going to become a multimillionaire

5:23

and

5:23

then you still are, like...

5:25

You would have to get banged on camera a lot for years to really develop a fan

5:28

base.

5:29

And you have to do a really good job, like, every time.

5:31

Super enthusiastic.

5:32

But my point is, like, you're not going to, like...

5:37

Most beautiful young women want a high-value man as a husband.

5:42

If, let's say, they're heterosexual.

5:44

Let's just assume they want to get married.

5:46

If they do want to get married, they do want a relationship.

5:49

You're not going to get a high-value man, especially if you're making...

5:55

If you're making millions of dollars a year doing this, you're going to want a

5:58

guy who

5:58

makes millions of dollars a year, right?

6:00

You're not going to want a guy who makes less than you.

6:02

You're probably used to buying fucking Louis Vuitton this and that, and you're

6:06

used to

6:07

all this shit.

6:07

So you're probably...

6:08

You're wealthy, right?

6:10

So you're already...

6:12

Your dating pool's smaller because you're probably not interested in a guy who

6:16

makes $100,000

6:17

a year.

6:17

Like, a regular guy to you is like, what is he going to do?

6:20

He can't even take me anywhere.

6:20

I'm going to pay for our vacation?

6:22

Get the fuck out of here, right?

6:24

So you've already cut regular guys out, so now you have a very small pool of

6:29

men that

6:30

you can date.

6:31

And then out of that pool, how many of them are going to accept the fact that

6:35

you're doing

6:35

this?

6:36

Now you have an even smaller pool.

6:37

So some guys will accept it, but for how long?

6:41

Like, if you get real serious and you get married and then you're still showing

6:45

your asshole

6:45

to everybody?

6:46

That's...

6:47

You know, you're in...

6:48

But you're addicted to that money.

6:49

Like, are you going to pick a relationship over this guy who may or may not be

6:54

DMing his

6:54

ex-girlfriend?

6:55

You know, like, you're going to throw it all away and throw away this $40

6:59

million a year

7:00

empire you've created?

7:01

Or are you trapped in that essentially forever?

7:05

Yeah, it's interesting the thresholds, though, too, of where they become

7:11

successful for what

7:13

they're doing.

7:13

Because it seems like some of them don't have to show their asshole.

7:15

Really?

7:16

They just post, like, thirst trap, fitness girl-type content, almost.

7:21

And people pay for that?

7:22

I think so.

7:24

But why would they pay for that when there's so much of that for free on

7:27

Instagram?

7:27

I know.

7:28

That's, like, the common question.

7:29

And...

7:30

My search page on Instagram is all butts.

7:34

I assume it's something to do with, like, you follow this person and, like, you

7:42

get a bigger

7:43

hit of dopamine, probably, from being able to potentially see a more revealing

7:48

something

7:49

from somebody that you are, like, a fan of already.

7:53

I think it's interaction.

7:54

That, I think, is a big component, too.

7:57

Because it's, like, I think half the income is, like, DMs.

8:01

Everyone's talking about how AI is going to change the world.

8:03

But what if that's not always a good thing?

8:06

What happens if insurance companies use it to jack up your premiums based on

8:10

your WebMD

8:11

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8:12

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8:17

browsing history?

8:18

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9:51

Well, there was some Google guy, some executive at Google that was warning

9:56

about what's going

9:57

to happen with AI girlfriends, with these sort of ingestinguishable AI

10:01

girlfriends that are

10:02

going to interact with guys, and how this is going to create profound

10:06

loneliness and all

10:07

sorts of real problems.

10:08

Yeah, I imagine so.

10:11

And I imagine a lot of the DM conversations are probably AI chat GPT already.

10:18

100%.

10:18

Yeah.

10:19

Or, you know, you got some Andrew Tate type deal.

10:22

There's a bunch of dudes who are like pounding on the keyboard where the girl

10:25

shows her tits.

10:26

Yeah.

10:27

Which is what he did for years.

10:28

Yeah.

10:29

Innovator.

10:30

Yeah.

10:30

And the curve.

10:32

Yeah.

10:33

Yeah.

10:33

You're going to not have any idea whether it's even a real person, right?

10:39

Because there's a bunch of AI-generated girlfriends, or girls rather, that have

10:43

OnlyFans where they

10:44

don't even exist.

10:45

They're not even a physical being.

10:47

Yeah, there's some pretty big Instagram pages, I think, that are just like fake.

10:50

Yeah.

10:51

Yeah.

10:51

Yeah.

10:52

And it's just like, even, I think they're owned by entities, like companies

10:56

that have like

10:57

an army of AI chicks.

10:59

Yeah.

10:59

Yeah.

11:00

Oh, yeah.

11:00

Which is crazy.

11:01

And they generate a lot of money.

11:03

I've seen the comment section on a couple of them too.

11:05

And shockingly, well, maybe not, I don't know.

11:08

But there's a lot of people that are engaging with it like it's a real person.

11:12

And I thought it was pretty obvious it was AI, but I mean, like, some people

11:15

are pretty stupid.

11:16

Oh, there's a high percentage of people in this country that have a below 85 IQ.

11:20

Like a real good percentage.

11:22

Isn't it like 15% or 20%?

11:24

Is it something nutty like that?

11:25

Yeah.

11:26

Yeah.

11:27

It's like the same amount that people that are like above that are going to be

11:30

below.

11:30

It's like a standard deviation of like averages and stats.

11:33

Yeah.

11:34

There's people that are, they're about as smart as a Labrador.

11:37

They just can talk.

11:40

Then you can trick them.

11:42

Yeah, yeah.

11:43

You know, and if you can get those dumbasses that work at Subway to donate $5 a

11:48

month and

11:48

you get enough of them.

11:49

Have you seen the UFC collab with that OnlyFans chick?

11:54

No.

11:54

There's a UFC collab with the OnlyFans chick?

11:57

Pull it up.

11:57

What is this?

11:59

So there's this girl who to spark outrage and get engagement, she breaks like

12:06

exotic cars.

12:07

Like she'll stand on a Lambo and just smash the windshield or something.

12:10

And just like shake her ass and then it gets tons of views and there's a bunch

12:14

of guys

12:14

freaking out because she's disrespecting a nice piece of machinery or whatever.

12:18

But at the end of the day, she gets views from it and then more people go to

12:22

her page

12:23

and sign up to it.

12:23

But how much is a Lambo worth?

12:25

Like Lambos are like half a million dollars, right?

12:28

She'll smash like the windshield only or like a window from like the driver's

12:35

side and

12:36

then do some like call to action or something.

12:38

Wow.

12:39

Like pull up the UFC one, you'll be able to tell what I'm talking about better.

12:42

I don't know the girl you're talking about, but I don't, I didn't know that she

12:44

did something

12:45

with the UFC.

12:46

Yeah, Dana White like posted it.

12:47

No.

12:47

What?

12:49

He's like, check this shit out.

12:51

What?

12:52

Yeah.

12:53

I gotta find it one second.

12:54

Unless they un-

12:56

Is it on UFC Instagram?

12:57

Yeah, it was like a collaboration I saw a few days ago.

13:00

Okay.

13:02

What?

13:04

They're giving away a McLaren or something for the next UFC event, I think.

13:07

Oh.

13:08

And she's the one who's talking about it after smashing the window of a Lambo.

13:11

What?

13:12

Yeah.

13:12

Real?

13:13

I thought it was kind of a weird combo.

13:15

This is the gal?

13:16

Yeah.

13:17

Oh, don't do it.

13:18

Don't.

13:19

You gotta, is that a crowbar?

13:20

Oh, what the fuck are you doing?

13:22

Oh, Jesus.

13:23

That's why I'm giving away this McLaren 600LT at Power Slap for free.

13:29

Check out the links in our bios on how to enter.

13:32

Wow.

13:34

Wow, we're the dumbest fucking race.

13:36

We're so dumb.

13:37

What are the accounts that collabed with it?

13:39

It was UFC, right?

13:40

Yeah, it was for Power Slap event.

13:41

We are.

13:42

Of course it's for Power Slap.

13:43

That's just as dumb.

13:45

We are the dumbest motherfuckers that have ever lived.

13:47

We really are.

13:48

What do you think about Power Slap?

13:50

I don't.

13:52

I don't.

13:53

I don't get it.

13:54

I've watched it a ton of times on little Instagram reels.

13:59

You know, when it shows up, I watch guys get KO'd.

14:01

I would never advise anybody to do it.

14:04

I don't care how good you are at getting slapped.

14:06

I don't care how good you are at slapping people.

14:09

For me, the whole idea of fighting is to hit and not get hit.

14:12

The whole idea is the skill.

14:14

It's like you impose your skill set.

14:17

It's like a, you know, human chess game.

14:19

That's the opposite.

14:21

You're just standing in front of each other, whacking each other in the face.

14:23

But I will watch.

14:25

So if people want to do it, that's your jam.

14:29

You know, if you're some giant fat guy.

14:31

We see one of those guys actually had a fight, a dirty boxing fight with Yoel

14:36

Romero.

14:37

He's like the freaks.

14:38

Yeah, he's like the dirty boxing king, dude.

14:41

He's also super juicy now.

14:44

He's a heavyweight now.

14:45

So Yoel is 47.

14:47

So he was competing under pretty rigorous testing with the UFC as far as like,

14:53

you know, I'm

14:54

sure you would disagree.

14:55

But look at what he looks like now.

14:56

We could talk about that later.

14:57

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

14:58

This is Yoel now.

15:02

He smashes this guy.

15:03

Look at the size of him.

15:04

This is not a good video, Jamie.

15:06

Find another video of it.

15:07

There's the actual video of it from the fight event.

15:10

That's like someone's camera from the side view.

15:14

But he's huge.

15:15

Yoel's like 220 now.

15:17

225, baby.

15:19

He's fucking massive.

15:20

He used to suck down to 185.

15:23

And then what would he walk in at, though?

15:25

I think like two.

15:26

Well, when he would weigh 185, this is back when Yoel was fighting, there was

15:30

actual weigh-ins.

15:31

You know, so right now there's actual weigh-ins, but it's a ceremonial weigh-in.

15:36

Like tomorrow at the UFC, I'll host a ceremonial weigh-in.

15:39

So the fighters weighed in at like 9 o'clock in the morning.

15:42

The ceremonial weigh-in is at 5 p.m.

15:44

They've had the entire day to rehydrate.

15:46

So Yoel, back in those days, was 185 when you weighed in at 5 p.m. at 185.

15:54

And you couldn't believe he was 185 because I would be like 200 pounds.

15:59

And I'd be sitting there.

16:00

I'm like, how?

16:01

How am I bigger than you?

16:03

This defies all known laws of physics and gravity.

16:08

It doesn't make any sense.

16:09

He was massive.

16:10

These enormous traps.

16:12

He was one of the rare guys that when he would suck weight, he didn't look

16:16

smaller.

16:16

He still looked fucking huge, man.

16:19

Yeah, he has really round muscle bellies.

16:22

So it's almost like bodybuilder-esque in terms of how much bigger you look just

16:27

cosmetically to you.

16:29

So this guy that he's fighting is a slap fight guy.

16:32

And look at the size of Yoel now.

16:34

He's definitely less lean.

16:36

Yeah, he's less lean.

16:38

He's eating whatever he wants, but he's still got a six-pack.

16:41

But he's fucking massive, dude.

16:44

So how did he end up in this league?

16:46

Like, what was...

16:47

Oh, I think this is Mike Perry's thing.

16:50

I think he's putting this together.

16:51

He's involved with it in some way, shape, or form.

16:54

So Yoel is just basically, like, toying with this guy.

16:57

This guy has literally no business.

16:59

No disrespect to the man, but no business in the ring with this world-class

17:04

athlete.

17:05

Like, how much do you got to get paid to go in and fight Yoel for this?

17:10

Yeah, $15.

17:10

Like, watch how he hops up in the air before he decides to go.

17:14

Like, what is that about?

17:15

He just decides to, like, hop in the air.

17:17

He's like, enough.

17:18

Let me end this.

17:19

He just decides it's time to end it.

17:21

Oh, my God.

17:22

He's fucking huge, dude.

17:24

Look at his back.

17:24

Look at his back.

17:26

That guy used to weigh 185.

17:28

And, by the way, if...

17:31

Look at...

17:31

See the back of his neck?

17:32

He has a fully fused neck.

17:34

If he wasn't, you know, 36 when he entered into the UFC, that's how old he was.

17:41

When he first started fighting...

17:42

He was already past his professional prime when he first started fighting in

17:45

the UFC.

17:46

You know, if he had gotten into MMA when he was 20, probably nobody would have

17:50

ever beaten him.

17:51

He's the freak of all freaks.

17:53

When it comes to, like, athletic specimens.

17:56

Like, he's the freak.

17:57

Yeah, when was his last fight in the UFC?

17:59

Quite a while ago.

18:00

He fought Adesanya, I want to say, five years ago.

18:05

When did he fight Israel?

18:08

And I think maybe he had one other fight other than that.

18:13

But, you know, he was knocking guys dead at 40.

18:15

Dude, the cost of...

18:18

Right before the pandemic.

18:19

What is it?

18:19

March 7th, 2020.

18:21

There you go.

18:21

So that was his last fight in the UFC.

18:23

So the last four years, he's been competing for Bellator.

18:27

And so they're a little less stringent.

18:31

They don't have a USADA deal or now whatever it's called, drug-free sport.

18:37

I think they call it now.

18:38

That's the new company.

18:38

Which is essentially the same protocols, but they don't wake you up on the day

18:42

of the weigh-ins or anything like that.

18:44

USADA was gross.

18:45

Like, they would take these guys that are dehydrated, starving themselves, day

18:48

before the fight, wake them up at 6 o'clock in the morning.

18:51

Did you see that article I sent you about the USADA corruption?

18:56

Yes.

18:56

So let's talk about that.

18:58

Yeah.

18:58

So basically, and this was like a WADA press release too.

19:02

So it's not like it was some journalist or something.

19:05

It's like on the official WADA site.

19:06

And they were basically exposing how USADA was covering up test results.

19:13

For which athletes?

19:15

Unnamed.

19:16

Which sports?

19:18

They wouldn't say.

19:19

They just said like Olympic-level athletes and elite athletes and kept it very

19:22

vague.

19:23

Really?

19:23

And essentially, they just closed what they had tested positive for.

19:28

And even that one of them was an Olympic-caliber athlete.

19:31

And their entire career, they got to go until retirement without getting

19:35

exposed just because they helped USADA supposedly catch other people.

19:40

Oh, they were narcs?

19:41

So like, yeah, so if you help them catch people, then you could get away with

19:46

using like full-board testosterone, EP.

19:49

No!

19:50

Really?

19:51

Yeah.

19:52

Oh my God.

19:53

So they're like a drug dealer that works for the government.

19:55

Yeah.

19:56

Wow.

19:57

And this was like one of the reasons of many why Hunter and others are very

20:03

critical of USADA and are glad they're not under it anymore.

20:07

Well, there's a lot of stupidity with their regulations.

20:11

Like one of them is BBC 157, which is natural in the human body, you know, and

20:15

peptides.

20:16

All they're doing is helping you heal.

20:18

Yeah.

20:18

You're literally dealing with a sport where you beat the fucking shit out of

20:21

each other every day in training.

20:23

And you're not going to like assist these people in healing.

20:26

Like wouldn't that only benefit everybody?

20:28

There's no like fear of like harm.

20:31

There's no, like no one's dying from BBC 157.

20:35

Within the code, there's a provision whereby an athlete who provides

20:38

substantial assistance can subsequently apply to have a proportion of their

20:42

period of ineligibility suspended.

20:45

Wow, look how they phrased that.

20:46

What dirty language.

20:48

Proportion of their period of ineligibility suspended.

20:52

What does that mean?

20:52

It means you're allowing them to cheat.

20:54

However, there's a clear process for that, which does not involve allowing

20:58

those who have cheated to continue to compete while they may or may not gather

21:03

incriminating.

21:04

Wait a minute, what are you saying then?

21:06

So it doesn't do that.

21:07

They're saying it doesn't do that.

21:09

At the bottom, Watt is now aware of at least three cases where athletes who had

21:12

committed serious anti-doping rule violations were allowed to continue to

21:16

compete for years while they acted as undercover agents.

21:19

Okay, so they pretended that they wouldn't let someone compete if they were doping,

21:24

but they still did.

21:26

Yeah, while they were on shit.

21:28

Wow.

21:29

Imagine if that's like boxing in the Olympics or something like that.

21:32

The athlete was allowed to line up against their unknowing competitors as if

21:36

they had never cheated.

21:38

In that case, when USADA eventually admitted to Watt that what had been going

21:41

on, it advised that any publication of consequences or disqualification of

21:45

results would put the athlete's security at risk.

21:47

What?

21:48

And asked Watt to agree to non-publication.

21:52

What?

21:53

Were they worried about that with Lance Armstrong?

21:56

The fuck are you talking about security at risk?

21:59

In another case of a high-level athlete, USADA never notified WADA of its

22:03

decision to lift an athlete's provisional suspension, which is an appealable

22:07

decision, despite being required to do so under the code.

22:10

Had WADA been notified, it would have never allowed this.

22:13

Wow.

22:15

Interesting.

22:16

And it sounds like this was somewhat how they operated, is if they had a high-profile

22:22

enough person or certain circumstances, they would kind of autonomously decide,

22:27

hey, if you work alongside us to catch other people because you might know

22:31

something that we don't or what have you, then we'll just let you, you know, no

22:35

one will know.

22:36

That's so dirty.

22:38

That's so dirty.

22:38

That's literally contrary to the whole reason why they exist.

22:42

Yeah.

22:43

What's really crazy is, I mean, according to the UFC, so what happened was the

22:48

UFC had some disputes with them and decide to sever their relationship.

22:52

And then USADA, like, publicly said that UFC is going to allow their

22:57

competitors to do steroids now, which is not the case at all.

23:01

Like, they already had a contract in place with Drug Free Sport.

23:04

I talked to the guy from Drug Free Sport and he was essentially laying out the

23:07

– it was essentially identical.

23:09

No BPC-157, no testosterone, nothing.

23:13

Like, you can't do anything.

23:14

The standards are actually much higher now, too, in contrast.

23:18

Like, USADA would claim or at least suggest that they were doing full-spectrum,

23:23

bulletproof testing, but it turned out they were almost never EPO testing.

23:28

The HGH testing was never really done.

23:32

And then also the isoform – what was it?

23:35

The isotope ratio mass spec was not really being done either.

23:41

Was that, like, a budget thing?

23:43

Like, it was too expensive to do those tests?

23:45

Yeah, it's – I believe so, and also time-intensive for some of these tests as

23:50

well.

23:50

And I guess for, like, the number of tests they were conducting, perhaps it was

23:54

too extensive.

23:55

Or I don't really know what the exact motivation was.

23:58

Like, often you would think it comes down to budget and time, but also if you

24:01

have an expert who just thinks it's not warranted to go further,

24:05

like the same way if you went to a doctor and you'd be like, should I test this?

24:09

They'll be like, oh, if we know this, like, who cares?

24:11

It's not necessary.

24:12

Like, I don't necessarily know.

24:13

They went to the depth and rigor to claim somebody did or didn't cheat if I

24:18

have, you know, preliminary data that you would exclude having to go further.

24:24

Like, sometimes you don't have to, you know, test further if there's not an atypical

24:29

finding.

24:29

Yeah, but, like, let's – if they're not testing for EPO, for example, and

24:35

maybe there's an event in Mexico City, right, which is 7,700 feet above sea

24:40

level, that place is brutal.

24:42

That's where Cain Velasquez, who was known as, like, probably the greatest

24:47

cardio heavyweight of all time, he fought Fabricio over Doom, and he did not

24:52

prepare properly.

24:54

Fabricio actually moved to the mountains above Mexico City and trained there

24:58

for, like, four months.

25:00

So Fabricio, who speaks fluent Spanish, lived in Mexico, like, he was really

25:03

got ready, and he beat Cain Velasquez in that night to become the champion.

25:07

And he had tremendous cardio, and Cain was just dying.

25:10

That's how brutal Mexico City is.

25:13

So imagine when you're competing at that altitude or maybe Colorado Springs or

25:17

one of these, like, really high-altitude places, which we have events, Salt

25:21

Lake City, and you don't test for EPO?

25:24

Yeah, no, I'm saying.

25:25

That's crazy.

25:27

Yeah.

25:27

That's crazy because that's the place where you would do it, particularly if,

25:30

like, you're defending your title or you're challenging for a title.

25:33

Yeah, and it's, like, some of this stuff, even if you're looking for it, is

25:37

quite difficult to detect anyway.

25:38

It's, like, microdosing EPO is still, they're trying to refine the parameters

25:43

and determine, with greater scrutiny, how to detect it.

25:46

How long is the, like, the life that's detectable inside your body?

25:50

I believe it's, like, a few days, and that's if you're using, like, that's not

25:56

a microdose protocol either.

25:58

Well, how much of a benefit do you get from microdosing?

26:02

Fairly significant given you can even just retaining your baseline parameters

26:07

if you're weight cutting can be quite helpful.

26:11

So it's almost, like, offsetting, for example, the suppression of hormones or

26:15

the suppression of, like, any sort of parameter that would decrease with heavy

26:19

nutrient deprivation.

26:21

If you can sustain it at normal is performance enhancing in contrast to your

26:24

competitors who are also weight cutting and might not have the same advantages.

26:29

Well, that's why T.J. Dillashaw did it when he was dropping down the flyweight

26:33

to fight Henry Cejudo, which is when he got popped.

26:36

And, you know, but he was, he looked like a skeleton.

26:39

Did you ever see those weight cut?

26:41

Yeah, that was insane.

26:42

I might be misspeaking on the detection time of EPO, by the way, but it's, at

26:45

minimum, the microdose protocols that are being implemented still.

26:50

Even most recent literature, you find upwards of 50% of the studied

26:55

participants, where they're actually looking for it, still pass their testing.

27:00

Really?

27:01

Yeah.

27:01

Wow.

27:03

Well, one of the things that I've read about sauna is that sauna use,

27:08

especially, like, directly after cardio, imparts, like, like a microdose EPO

27:13

effect.

27:14

Have you read anything about that?

27:16

Uh, not for, not recently, no.

27:19

So, I don't know.

27:20

Maybe you could brush me up.

27:21

Do you have a...

27:22

Well, maybe we could find it.

27:23

But I know it's helped my cardio.

27:25

It helped significantly, because I went through an injury once where I couldn't

27:29

do, uh, any kickboxing or any hitting the bag or anything for quite a while.

27:33

And whenever I did come back from, like, three or four months off of that, it

27:37

would be the first few days were fucking brutal.

27:41

And it wasn't brutal at all.

27:42

And it was because of regular sauna use.

27:44

Sauna bathing can increase the production of EPO, a hormone that stimulates the

27:48

production of red blood cells.

27:49

This can improve endurance performance by increasing the amount of oxygen.

27:53

Now, um, it says, here's how, plasma volume, when you sit in a sauna, you sweat,

27:57

which comes from blood plasma.

27:59

As your blood plasma levels decrease, your kidneys release EPO.

28:03

So, how do they detect endogenous versus exogenous EPO?

28:08

It's similar to how they would detect for bioidentical testosterone and other

28:14

hormones.

28:15

They look for, does it look like an endogenous signature?

28:20

So, different compounds, there's different ways to analyze, but in general, it's

28:24

going to be either the molecular mass of it or something to that effect would

28:30

be, have a blatant difference between what you would make naturally, endogenously

28:36

versus exogenous origin, which is the way they make it in a lab, does not

28:40

necessarily look exactly the same.

28:41

So, even though it's EPO that you're injecting, it's actually like recombinant,

28:46

aka made in a lab, and not like, it's not like they're literally pulling EPO

28:50

out of a guy and then giving it to you.

28:51

It's like grown in a lab, essentially.

28:54

Right, right.

28:55

Well, that was one of the things that Jeff Nowitzki actually said could be an

29:01

issue, is that it is possible, at least theoretically, to take testosterone

29:06

from animals.

29:08

Yeah.

29:08

So, find a mammal-based testosterone, instead of getting it from, so they

29:13

create it from wild yams, right?

29:16

Yeah.

29:16

So, wild yams from Mexico, apparently, where they get all the testosterone,

29:20

when you buy testosterone cyponate or whatever.

29:23

And soy.

29:23

Yeah.

29:24

Soy?

29:24

Yeah.

29:25

What do you mean?

29:26

They use soy to, like, the phyto, some of the compounds in the soy, as well as

29:31

the yams, look similar molecularly to the cholesterol that would get basically

29:37

enzymatically converted to testosterone.

29:41

So, you can just manipulate that slightly to have, like, a highly reproducible,

29:47

at scale, for low-cost way to make hormones.

29:50

And that's how testosterone is made.

29:51

Oh, that's interesting, because soy is always associated with, like, soy boys.

29:56

Bad stuff, yeah.

29:57

Yeah, it's associated with high estrogen levels.

29:59

Yeah, I think the two primary ways they synthesize testosterone now is soy and

30:04

yams.

30:04

So, Nowitzki was saying that, at least in theory, a really good scientist could

30:09

actually extract it from animals, and then it would be impossible to

30:14

differentiate.

30:15

Yeah, I think maybe the first time I came on, we talked about the carbon isotope

30:20

ratio testing and having a CIR-proof testosterone formulation, if athletes are

30:24

doing that.

30:26

And I did dig into it after we talked about it a bit more, and it does seem

30:30

like there's strong evidence that suggests they're aware of it and are trying

30:35

to find new ways to refine even the carbon isotope ratio testing.

30:39

Now they're looking at, like, hydrogen ratios, because it's more minute and

30:43

specific, apparently, as opposed to with the carbon content.

30:47

They've seen suspicious testosterone formulations that look similar to endogenous

30:53

carbon isotope signatures.

30:55

Wow.

30:56

And your diet, even what you ingest, can change what your signature is, too,

31:00

because they have to use, as, like, a reference, they use, for example, from

31:04

your urine, they'll find some other compound that is, like, upstream from

31:09

testosterone, for example.

31:11

And they will use that as a benchmark of, like, this is what your signature is

31:16

of the carbon content of sex hormones.

31:18

And then if your testosterone has a different carbon isotope ratio than this,

31:23

they know that, okay, however you got this in your body is different than the

31:27

upstream hormone.

31:30

So through that, we can infer that, you know, it's probably of exogenous origin.

31:35

But if the exogenous origin one looks like the upstream hormones, like, you

31:40

would never be able to tell.

31:42

So it's possible, if you were sophisticated enough, to make the exogenous look

31:48

like the upstream, even though you've injected it.

31:52

Yeah, and if you had, like, animal-grade testosterone or cholesterol, even from,

31:56

like, a medical-grade, you know, compound facility or something, like, you

32:01

could probably react it down and create, like, a CIR-proof testosterone.

32:06

God, it would be – it seems like it would be hard to keep that under wraps

32:09

for very long without it getting out.

32:11

Maybe, yeah, but it's, like, the access to lab equipment and high-level testing

32:16

is not as – the barrier is a lot lower than it used to be, for sure.

32:20

Like, there are – I even have heard of people paying off WADA-accredited labs

32:24

to get, like, testing done.

32:26

Really?

32:27

Yeah, so they could, like, assess where they stand in terms of, like, some of

32:31

the testing that they would do to see if they'd pop or not.

32:34

Is that legal?

32:34

No.

32:35

So they bribe WADA, allegedly?

32:39

There's WADA-accredited labs, not just in the States, but, like, in other

32:42

countries where they're a bit more corrupt and you can, you know, persuade them

32:46

to test your samples.

32:48

Oh, so you send your piss to Guatemala or somewhere.

32:51

Yeah, yeah.

32:52

And then they go, yeah, senor, you got problems.

32:54

Senor, this does not look good.

32:57

Yeah.

32:57

But, yeah, and if you do enough homework, you can, you know, develop a

33:02

biological passport internally with your own team and, you know.

33:06

Interesting.

33:07

Be it, no, you're bulletproofed rather than just guessing.

33:10

Yeah.

33:11

Well, there was some concern with Brock Lesnar at one point in time before he

33:15

tested positive.

33:17

And one of the concerns was that he was testing himself, that he had gotten

33:22

tested, like, a number of times, which generally you don't do.

33:28

Now, why was that recorded, though, like, that they have his medical records?

33:34

Because you can just, like, pay for blood tests and get a urine analysis.

33:37

I might be speaking out of turn.

33:39

I might be speaking out of school here.

33:41

I don't remember.

33:42

I don't remember the thing.

33:43

But I remember someone who knows things telling me.

33:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

33:48

You know?

33:48

I'm kind of on the inside.

33:49

So someone who knows things on the inside told me, dude, he got tested, like,

33:53

20 fucking times or something crazy like that during camp.

33:57

Oh, well, he was for sure trying to get around that.

33:59

Well, he's also pissed hot.

34:00

This is when he fought Mark Hunt.

34:02

Oh, right, right, right.

34:03

And there's a giant lawsuit involved right now.

34:04

Oh, wow.

34:05

Yeah, I don't know if that lawsuit has been, if it's still ongoing or what the

34:10

deal was, but Mark Hunt was furious.

34:12

Yeah.

34:13

It was obvious when you look at the guy.

34:15

I mean, he was, like, 39 years old, 300 pounds, like, cutting down to 265.

34:20

He was fucking huge, man.

34:21

Yeah, what's even more interesting, too, is the storage of samples.

34:26

A lot of sports don't actually do it.

34:29

So with Olympic testing, oftentimes the positive test results come retroactively

34:35

to years in the past.

34:37

Once they've refined the testing and actually are able to detect, you know,

34:40

long-term metabolites of Terenabol or something of that nature.

34:44

But in a lot of sports, like, especially in the U.S. for, like, traditional

34:49

professional sports,

34:50

they're not storing urine, typically.

34:53

Right.

34:53

So if you have more refined tests and get developed, oftentimes there's no way

34:58

to actually penalize an athlete who was ahead of the testing curve at the time.

35:02

Right.

35:03

And at least from what I've seen, there's a really good paper.

35:06

One of the guys I know who's on the inside on this, his name is Alex Cagliari-Turner.

35:13

He has excellent information and studies on this stuff.

35:16

But he did a paper that basically outlined how I think 75% of the medalists

35:20

that have tested positive in the Olympics at the Summer Olympic Games for the

35:25

past, I don't know, it was like a full decade of analyzation.

35:29

It was like 75% of them tested years later, not at the actual time of winning

35:34

their medal.

35:35

So if they're only being popped, you know, three out of four people are getting

35:39

popped retroactively over a half decade later or more.

35:43

Based on advancements in testing, you can just imagine how many sports are

35:48

getting away with passing testing, given that retroactively they're not being

35:53

tested at all.

35:54

Right.

35:56

So it's like if you're ahead of the curve now, there are a lot of sports where

35:59

as long as you pass the test now, even if what you took had a more refined assay

36:03

developed, you know, five years from now, they're not going to go get your

36:07

sample and retry it.

36:09

Right.

36:09

That makes sense.

36:10

Yeah.

36:10

But wasn't there a famous Russian wrestler who was popped because they went

36:15

back and looked at his old stuff, like once they developed new testing

36:20

protocols?

36:21

Wasn't it an Olympic athlete?

36:23

Yeah.

36:23

Well, that's why, because Olympic Games, they started storing samples 2004.

36:28

So they're a bit more rigorous about that.

36:31

And there are probably some sports that store, but the majority don't.

36:35

Hmm.

36:36

Yeah.

36:36

And it's like, you know, you could say it's corruption or you could say it's,

36:39

you know, people trying to, the sport trying to cover it up.

36:42

But I think sometimes it's just like budget constraints too, because it's like

36:45

you still have to be a profitable enterprise.

36:47

And, you know, I don't know how much you can, you know,

36:53

scrutinize the economics on something like that.

36:55

You're also managing at scale, right?

36:56

Like how many athletes are you dealing with?

36:58

Yeah.

36:58

How much time do you have to go back and, you know, review all the different

37:04

urine samples and go back?

37:06

Yeah.

37:06

Yeah.

37:07

No, but it gets crazy because it kind of, it highly suggests that in a lot of

37:12

sports, as long as you're ahead of the curve, you're probably good.

37:17

Yeah.

37:17

Now, obviously, you have to actually beat the test now, which is more and more

37:20

rigorous by the year, of course.

37:22

But at least historically, what we've seen is it's the testing usually lags

37:27

behind the methods that are being developed to get around it.

37:32

Is there anything right now that is not being tested for that you think is

37:36

effective?

37:37

Yeah.

37:40

Like in general, the most effective stuff is going to be bioidenticals, which

37:45

are being tested for.

37:46

But it's like at the scale, it's kind of up for debate because sometimes they

37:50

don't test at all.

37:52

Like, you know, we saw with USADA, they were barely doing adequate in-depth

37:56

testing for bioidenticals with no EPO testing or HGH testing.

38:00

So I would say those are probably the go-tos, you know, like EPO especially and

38:05

HGH.

38:06

There are other compounds that I think some people think they can get away with

38:11

that sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

38:14

Like, I think it's called trimtazidine.

38:17

There was some, like, top-level tennis player who just popped, like, a week ago

38:20

or something.

38:21

And what is that?

38:22

It's like an angina medication that the entire China Olympic team got popped

38:27

for a few years back.

38:28

Yeah, it was, like, 23 Chinese swimmers before the Tokyo Olympics got popped

38:35

using this thing.

38:36

And then they claimed it was, like, food contamination or something.

38:40

And they were like, oh, I guess that's what happened.

38:43

And then a bunch of those, two of those athletes won medals in the recent Paris

38:47

Olympics.

38:48

And 11 of them were allowed to compete still.

38:51

What does it do?

38:52

It shifts your efficiency of fuel utilization.

38:58

So basically, in general, to create ATP, your body would oxidize fatty acids as

39:03

well as glucose.

39:05

And in an endurance event, which is heavily oxygen sapping, if you can shift,

39:10

which is what this drug does, it inhibits a process by which your body

39:16

proportionally oxidizes more glucose than fatty acids, which is a less oxygen-intensive

39:22

process.

39:23

So you can basically conserve oxygen proportional to the amount of ATP you're

39:28

producing.

39:29

So in an endurance event, if you can have more oxygen for less cost internally,

39:34

then it's highly performance-enhancing.

39:38

Wow.

39:38

Or it should be.

39:40

You know, it's kind of speculative as to if it's actually performance-enhancing.

39:43

But it's kind of a weird coincidence how many people have popped for this drug.

39:46

Oh, by the way, the first time I was here, you said the Russian Olympics, the

39:51

only people who didn't pop were the figure skaters.

39:54

Yeah.

39:55

Yeah, there was a Russian figure skater who was 15 who was on this angina

39:58

medication.

39:58

Well, that kind of makes sense, right?

40:01

Because one thing you would want is more oxygen and endurance when you're

40:04

figure skating.

40:05

It's pretty cardio-intensive when you're spinning around and flying around.

40:08

Yeah, for sure.

40:09

But they said that steroids, they found, like, gross motor skills.

40:14

Like, he's so loud, dude.

40:16

You can nudge him, keep him from fucking snoring so loud.

40:19

But they found that, like, testosterone and things along those lines, like,

40:25

actual steroids, it was not good to be stronger as a figure skater that it didn't

40:30

enhance.

40:31

But that was Gregory, whatever his name was, from Icarus.

40:35

Yeah, yeah.

40:36

And, like, I could see, obviously, the compound selection will differ greatly

40:40

depending on what sport.

40:42

Because, you know, there are some sports where, you know, being heavier is

40:46

going to be problematic.

40:47

Right.

40:48

And you might, you know, want something that could enhance, I don't know, your

40:54

cognitive capacity or whatever it may be.

40:57

Or, like, slow down your heart rate, for example, for archery or, you know,

41:01

different applications, for sure.

41:02

Like beta blockers.

41:04

Yeah, like for archery, for example, things like propranolol, like, highly

41:08

effective, as well as for, you know, public speaking, playing piano publicly.

41:12

I think there's, like, a famous pianist who uses stroke, too.

41:16

Yeah, I've heard of people using beta blockers.

41:18

Snipers, too.

41:19

Really?

41:19

Yeah.

41:20

It makes sense, right?

41:21

Yeah.

41:22

Just dropping that anxiety response.

41:26

Yeah, and if it crosses the blood-brain barrier like propranolol does, it

41:30

actually calms you down very significantly.

41:32

It's not just about lowering the heart rate.

41:33

It also, like, de-stresses you.

41:36

Like, it's an anti-anxiety drug, essentially.

41:38

Wow.

41:39

Yeah.

41:40

You've never tried it?

41:42

No.

41:43

For archery?

41:44

No.

41:44

I'd be wondering if it was...

41:46

I thought about doing it once.

41:47

I even asked my doctor about it.

41:48

He was going to get it for me.

41:49

But I was like, I don't want to cheat.

41:51

Like, half of the bow hunting thing is about being able to keep your shit

41:55

together.

41:56

And if you could just do it.

41:57

Yeah.

41:58

Like, if I could just shoot at a deer the way I'd shoot at a target, I don't

42:01

think it would be the same.

42:02

Yeah, fair enough.

42:04

It's like, part of it is like...

42:05

You're a purist.

42:06

Yeah, in that regard.

42:08

Because part of it is the discipline of managing your mind.

42:11

Yeah.

42:12

That's what I like about it.

42:13

I like that it's hard to do.

42:15

Yeah.

42:16

I don't want it to be easier.

42:17

You know?

42:18

It's fucking hard to do.

42:19

And that's literally why I like it.

42:21

Like, if I could take a drug that would make it easier to do, I don't think I

42:24

would like it.

42:24

I'm very effective right now.

42:26

I'm very...

42:27

I'm real successful at bow hunting.

42:29

You know, relatively.

42:31

For like...

42:31

It's a non...

42:33

If...

42:33

Like, I go to a lot of really great places to hunt because I have money.

42:36

I'm fortunate.

42:37

But relatively speaking, bow hunting is not a successful endeavor.

42:42

It's like maybe 10% of the hunts.

42:44

Like, when people get tags, maybe.

42:47

Probably less in most places.

42:49

Actually harvest an animal.

42:52

How often do you do it?

42:53

I do it twice a year.

42:55

I go on a big elk hunt.

42:56

And I do like a bunch of pig hunts and stuff like that.

43:00

In between that, maybe one deer hunt.

43:02

And it's like, how intensive of a prep is it?

43:07

And like the whole process of doing the trip?

43:11

Is it like a multi-day thing?

43:12

Yeah.

43:13

I go for like a week.

43:14

The really intensive part, though, is the preparation for it.

43:17

And I was going to tell you about this, too, because I actually fucked my body

43:20

up getting ready for this one.

43:22

So when hunting season approaches, for like three months out of hunting season,

43:26

I ramp up all my cardio and all my bow hunt, my archery.

43:29

So I practice in my backyard.

43:32

I practice archery.

43:33

I'm shooting at 85 yards.

43:35

I shoot an 84-pound bow.

43:37

And I might shoot it 100 times a day.

43:39

So I'm pulling 80 pounds, 84 pounds, 100 times in a day.

43:44

And I'm doing it day after day after day after day.

43:48

I do it five, six days a week.

43:49

So I was developing like severe pain in my lower back on my right side that led

43:56

to like sciatica.

43:58

And I was also developing some severe neck pain on my right side.

44:03

So this is – it's all – it's really an unbalanced thing, right, because I

44:07

really should draw something back with my –

44:09

I should probably like at least draw back my bow with my left hand as many

44:13

times as I draw back with my right, but I don't.

44:16

So you draw back.

44:18

So I'm pulling – it's 84 pounds to pull it back, at least for the beginning

44:22

of the cycle.

44:23

And then the cams rotate over and it significantly lowers.

44:25

Like the holding weight is – I think my holding weight is like 20 percent, 20

44:30

or 25 percent of the actual weight of the bow.

44:33

But what happens is as you're pulling back and you lock it in place, the way

44:37

archery works is you want to – what's called pull at the wall, right?

44:42

So where the string hits the end where it can't pull anymore on a compound bow,

44:47

I'm pulling hard against that wall so I'm steady, right?

44:50

And then I'm trying to relax this shoulder and pull and I'm stabilizing

44:55

everything with this lower back, with my lower back muscle.

44:58

So on my right side, it was just getting locked up, like painful and stiff and

45:04

sore and like hurt even when I walk.

45:07

And I would just keep going.

45:08

I would do it for hours, three hours a day, just hours and hours and hours.

45:12

And I just developed a real problem to the point where like when I was – the

45:16

last trip when I was going up hills, my hips were getting numb.

45:20

Like my glutes weren't firing.

45:22

I was getting sciatic pain.

45:24

It was pretty bad.

45:26

So I knew after hunting season was over I was going to have to dress it.

45:29

So I got some stem cell shots, which definitely helped.

45:32

I started doing a lot of stretching, no archery for a couple months, a lot of

45:37

like hard foam.

45:38

Like it's – I have a – from Elite Flexibility, they make like a PVC roller

45:42

with like a very thin layer, so it's very hard.

45:45

And I was doing a lot of rolling, rolling in the sauna, cold plunge, sauna,

45:50

stretching.

45:51

And it was getting a little better slowly, but it was brutal.

45:54

Like it was taking a long time to recover.

45:57

And then I started doing this thing called New Fit.

46:00

And what New Fit is, is electrical muscular stimulation while you're going

46:05

through exercise routines.

46:07

And so they slap these electro pads all over your muscles and fully contract

46:14

you.

46:15

And then you go through exercises while you're doing it.

46:18

And it's like significantly increased my rehabilitation.

46:21

I've only been doing it for a few weeks too.

46:23

I've only been doing it for like three weeks.

46:25

All my back pain is gone.

46:26

Mobility is back.

46:27

No more sciatica at all.

46:30

No issues at all.

46:31

And everything is like much looser.

46:34

It's like coming back.

46:35

So do you find that more effective than stem cells?

46:37

No, I think it's the combination of things.

46:39

It's very hard to tell like what is actually working.

46:43

But when you add one thing and then all of a sudden you get a significant

46:46

response, I'm assuming that this New Fit thing is having at least responsible

46:51

for, I mean, there's some sort of synergistic effect, right?

46:56

Because I'm using peptides.

46:58

I got this, like I said, I got stem cells shot into it.

47:01

So this is like a, and it takes a while for the stem cells to take place.

47:03

I'm sure that's part of it.

47:06

But then this New Fit thing is pretty significant.

47:08

So I've been doing that quite a lot.

47:10

I've been doing that four days a week.

47:11

And it's legit, man.

47:14

It's really legit.

47:15

I know Mike Tyson was using that when he was preparing for the fight with Jake

47:20

Paul.

47:20

So I know a lot of other athletes use it.

47:25

A lot of people use it for rehabilitation.

47:27

It's like it really reduces the amount of time that you have to recover from

47:30

like surgeries and injuries and stuff like that.

47:32

What else are you using now as part of your...

47:36

Nothing new.

47:37

Nothing new.

47:37

Still BPC-157, TB-500, you know, Ipamoral and stuff like that.

47:44

Like the same stuff that I've always used before.

47:47

This is the only thing that I've done that's really new, this New Fit.

47:51

Have you ever seen it before?

47:52

See if you can find like some examples of...

47:55

Because like I said, Tyson was using it.

47:57

So it's no more time intensive because it's during training?

48:02

So what you're doing is...

48:04

So I'm doing it for rehabilitation.

48:05

So this is what it looks like.

48:07

So they slap these electrodes to you.

48:10

So your muscles are just like locked up depending on how much you can tolerate.

48:14

You know, so I get them to crank that fucker up.

48:17

And when you're doing it, your muscles are like completely flexed through the

48:23

whole thing.

48:24

It's like, it's kind of painful.

48:26

And then while you're doing that, you're going through all these different

48:29

exercises.

48:30

Okay.

48:32

So they're like kind of rehabilitative type exercises as opposed to the actual

48:37

workout that you'd be doing.

48:39

For me, what I'm doing is rehabilitative, but other people do it for hypertrophy.

48:44

And bodybuilders do it apparently to like say if like you've got like trap

48:48

issues, like you don't like you need to like have one area where you want to

48:52

improve.

48:53

They're slapping it to that area and then doing all these exercises.

48:56

Either an entrepreneur that I'm friends with asked me what I thought about it

49:01

as like a replacement for exercise.

49:04

Oh, just a replacement?

49:05

Yeah.

49:06

And it was like such like a rich person question.

49:09

Like how do I not go to the gym and still like go to the gym?

49:13

There was a place in Boston when I lived there in the 80s that had that.

49:19

I forget what it was called, but you would basically go there and their claim

49:23

was they would get you, you'd have a six pack, you'd get jacked and all you

49:26

have to do is lay there.

49:27

And so you lay there and they'd put these electrodes on you just.

49:31

Have you ever seen those like ancient like belly shaking things for like women

49:38

to lose body fat?

49:40

Like back in the 40s, they'd just sit there shaking back and forth.

49:43

No, I'm sure it's more effective than that, obviously, which did nothing, but I

49:47

don't think it's a replacement.

49:48

And I would imagine, I would speculate that the time it would take to stimulate

49:54

yourself, if it's for hypertrophy, if you just worked out more, you'd probably

49:59

get better results.

50:00

Perhaps.

50:02

It's the idea is that it's enhancing you past what you would normally get

50:07

because you're in this very unique state of constant contraction.

50:13

Yeah.

50:13

So there's no contract, relax, contract, relax.

50:17

You are just contracted.

50:19

You're just.

50:21

And then you're going through all these exercises.

50:23

So you have to kind of force your way through the exercises while you're

50:26

contracted.

50:27

It's kind of difficult.

50:28

I think if you were injured, it probably has a lot of viability, but I would be

50:33

highly suspect of it being used for like a guy trying to break a plateau who's

50:37

a veteran lifter, for example.

50:40

Right, right, right.

50:41

Yeah, I would agree.

50:42

And no bodybuilders I know attribute any success to something like this.

50:46

Right.

50:47

Well, this guy was telling me that some bodybuilders use it to target areas

50:51

that they, like, have a difficulty, like maybe your calves.

50:54

Yeah.

50:55

Like people have a difficult time growing calf muscles.

50:57

Most, biggest nuisance of a body part genetically.

51:01

It's calf.

51:02

We'll get John Jones.

51:03

That's the craziest thing.

51:04

Yeah.

51:05

Like one of the best kickers in the sport, no calves.

51:08

They're like non-existent.

51:10

Yeah, it's so genetically predetermined, seemingly, that, you know, you'll have

51:15

guys who are top Olympia caliber bodybuilders.

51:18

And if they haven't had calves for their whole career, they don't suddenly

51:21

develop them, even though they obviously know how to train.

51:24

And then people will shit on them and say, you have no calves, bro.

51:27

Like, learn how to train.

51:28

It's like, this is my job.

51:29

Like, do you think I don't know how to do a fucking calf raise?

51:32

But they just won't grow?

51:33

Yeah, like proportionally so.

51:35

They lag behind significantly.

51:37

And it's pretty obvious when somebody has a lagging body part when they're on

51:40

stage.

51:40

But it is, like, a very, very difficult area to locally, you know, if you don't

51:46

have the genetics for it and the muscle bellies, it's very difficult to make a

51:52

bad-looking calf look good.

51:54

It's weird because you've got to go to, like, John, where everything else is

51:57

pretty big, you know?

51:58

Yeah.

51:59

He's got big chest, big arms.

52:00

And this is not to say don't train calves because people get all riled up about,

52:05

you know, skipping leg days and stuff.

52:07

Well, especially for performance, you know?

52:10

Like, you certainly need strong calf muscles for performance.

52:13

So you can make them stronger.

52:14

They just don't necessarily get aesthetically pleasing.

52:17

Yeah, and there's definitely ways to optimally train them that maybe not

52:20

everyone does.

52:21

But in general, like, it seems like if they're lagging behind for you, it's

52:26

pretty difficult to bring them up.

52:28

That's weird.

52:29

What a weird body part.

52:30

Yeah.

52:31

Yeah.

52:32

It's, like, one of the worst offenders.

52:33

Is there anything else like that?

52:34

Any other body parts that are, like, notoriously difficult to train?

52:39

That's a good question.

52:40

Probably, there's probably something that I'm not thinking of.

52:48

I don't know.

52:49

Neck, maybe?

52:51

But that's pretty easy to train, actually.

52:53

It's just not many people do it.

52:54

Well, with neck, you've got to be careful, though.

52:56

You know, I use an iron neck, which I really believe in.

53:00

It's, like, the only thing that I've ever done that's strengthened my neck and

53:03

not caused me any neck problems.

53:05

Whereas, I think those other ones, like, you know those things where you put,

53:08

like, the leather helmet on with the chain?

53:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

53:11

I think that's an unusual movement for your neck.

53:15

And I think you could probably get away with it.

53:18

I know a lot of wrestlers, including Mike Tyson, who fucked their neck up from

53:22

neck bridges.

53:23

Have you seen the F1 driver's workout routines?

53:27

No.

53:27

Dude, pull up.

53:29

Oh, they would have to have crazy necks.

53:31

Oh, yeah.

53:31

That's, like, what they do for their training, mostly, seemingly.

53:34

Oh, you have to have a neck.

53:35

They're just sitting there with, like, a giant fucking contraption on their

53:38

head, just like.

53:38

Like an iron neck.

53:41

Yeah.

53:41

Yeah.

53:41

But it's, like, it seems even more intensive.

53:43

Like, it's, let's see.

53:46

Yeah, but see, what I'm saying is they're not bending the neck, right?

53:50

So what they're doing is they're forcing their muscles to stabilize the neck as

53:54

they're facing resistance, right?

53:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

53:57

But what they're not doing is bending all the way down and bending all the way

54:01

up with weight, which I think is what's unusual.

54:04

And I think that's just a weird strain on the discs.

54:08

And with a lot of guys, especially wrestlers, where they get strain from is,

54:13

like, someone grabbing them with a collar tie and, like, pulling their head

54:18

down.

54:18

And they get it real low.

54:19

And then they're resisting that.

54:20

You can fuck your neck up that way.

54:22

Or fighting off a guillotine or a darse choke or a triangle where you're, like,

54:26

really fucked up and distorted and you're resisting against it.

54:30

You can fuck your neck up.

54:31

So what the iron neck does that I really like is you're rotating and you can

54:36

adjust the resistance on the rotation.

54:39

So you have this halo.

54:40

You put it on your head.

54:42

You pump it like a Reebok pump.

54:43

And if, like, form fits to your head, you put a chin strap on, and then you

54:48

back up.

54:49

And so it's got a bungee cord, so a very stiff rubber cord.

54:53

And as you're pulling back, you have a lot of resistance this way.

54:56

And then you could rotate.

54:58

And then on the rotation, you can adjust the resistance.

55:01

You can make it more difficult.

55:02

But you're never doing any of this stuff.

55:05

And I think this stuff is where, at least from what I've seen, people get hurt,

55:10

especially neck bridges.

55:11

Neck bridges where your whole body.

55:13

Oh, I can imagine.

55:14

And you're doing all this and you're rolling.

55:15

Like Tyson, you ever seen Tyson's neck bridge routine when he was younger?

55:19

No.

55:19

Well, Tyson had a 20-inch neck.

55:21

Yeah.

55:22

20 inches.

55:22

You know how crazy that is?

55:24

His neck would start at the top of his head when he was young.

55:26

I mean, he had a fucking massive neck.

55:28

Yeah.

55:29

But it's one of the reasons why he was also so good at taking a punch.

55:32

Yeah.

55:32

Because his head didn't snap around.

55:33

Like, look at his neck when he was young.

55:35

That neck is crazy, dude.

55:37

That's a crazy neck.

55:38

It's parallel with his head.

55:39

Yeah.

55:39

Like, see, look at it.

55:40

This is what he would do every day in training.

55:43

Holy shit.

55:44

That looks rough.

55:45

But this wrestler bridge does strengthen your neck, but at a cost.

55:50

And I don't think it's at a cost for everybody.

55:52

I think it probably can be done safely.

55:55

But I think you probably have to scale up very slowly and very carefully and

56:00

make sure that you have the supporting tissue and strength around that to not

56:04

compromise your discs.

56:06

You know, like when you're in these reared positions.

56:10

Like, you're never supposed to have all, you know, at least bridging with, like,

56:13

60% of your weight sideways on your neck like this and then roll it over to the

56:17

side and then roll it over to the side while you're putting all the weight on

56:20

the back of your head or on your forehead.

56:23

That's just crazy.

56:24

Yeah.

56:25

Oh, yeah.

56:26

I would.

56:26

That looked fucking sketch, dude.

56:28

Yeah.

56:29

Well, Mike had to get neck surgery.

56:31

Yoel Romero, like I said, had his whole neck fused.

56:34

His neck doesn't.

56:35

Have you ever seen him run?

56:36

No, but it probably looks hilarious.

56:38

See, find the video Yoel Romero sprinting.

56:40

It's nuts.

56:41

His neck doesn't move.

56:42

It's like this.

56:42

Like a robot.

56:45

Like a Terminator.

56:45

But it's also why Yoel can take crazy punishment.

56:48

Like, Yoel got head kicked once by, I think it was Derek Brunson, head kicked

56:51

him, and he didn't even move.

56:53

Like, look at him run.

56:54

So his neck doesn't move.

56:56

His entire neck is completely fused.

56:59

And he has this giant scar on the back of his neck.

57:02

He is a freak, though, dude.

57:05

Did you ever get the impression that if he just, like, threw himself into the

57:09

fire more in fights, he probably would have won a lot more?

57:12

I don't know.

57:13

I don't know if you can keep that kind of muscle mass and have the kind of

57:17

cardio that you need to throw yourself into the fire more.

57:21

Because it was kind of hard to tell if he was gassed sometimes.

57:24

Right.

57:25

And then he would all of a sudden burst out.

57:27

Exactly.

57:27

Like, that Costa-Romero fight is still, to this day, one of my favorite fights

57:32

ever.

57:33

And I don't know, man.

57:35

Like, it almost, a lot of the Romero fights, it seems like, if he just started

57:39

swinging and going in there, that he might be able to take out a lot of dudes

57:43

that he just let go of the decision.

57:45

Perhaps, but you have to, like, know how much gas you have in the tank, and

57:49

only he knows.

57:50

And that style that he has is a style for someone who's very explosive.

57:55

It's very smart.

57:56

Because you don't just explode and keep going.

57:58

You won't last.

57:59

You'll last two minutes, and then you'll be dead.

58:00

Yeah.

58:01

So what he does is, like, he looks, like, so relaxed, and then he explodes on

58:05

you.

58:05

And when he explodes on people, they don't see it coming, because he's lulled

58:09

you into this false sense of security by this slower speed that he moves at.

58:12

Like, did you ever see his knockout of Chris Weidman?

58:15

Probably.

58:16

That's the perfect example of that.

58:18

He caught Chris Weidman with a flying knee as Chris Weidman was coming in for a

58:21

takedown.

58:22

He just, like, lulled him into, like, this is the speed we're moving at.

58:26

We're going to move at this speed.

58:27

This is how we're fighting.

58:28

Oh, I'm dodging your punches.

58:30

Oh, I'm done.

58:30

And then out of nowhere, bam, he hits him with his flying knee and just

58:34

destroys his head.

58:36

I mean, it was one of the most brutal.

58:38

Watch this.

58:39

So see how he, like, moves?

58:41

Boom.

58:42

Oh, my God.

58:43

Yeah, I mean, literally, his whole body.

58:46

Back it up again so we can see that one more time.

58:48

Like, before it happens.

58:51

So they're fighting.

58:54

He's got him on the ground.

58:56

Oh, so here it is.

58:57

So you see how he moves.

58:59

He's not.

58:59

Boom.

59:00

He just leaps into him.

59:01

This is, like, a highlight thing.

59:02

It's not showing the whole exchange.

59:06

But in the fight, you know, Weidman's very aggressive, very tough and, you know,

59:10

pushing a pace, trying to get the takedowns.

59:12

Weidman likes to push a strong pace and really wear on guys.

59:15

And Yoel just would, like, kind of, like, move and relax.

59:18

And then out of nowhere, he would just blow on you.

59:21

Yeah.

59:21

And that's what he did with Adesanya, too.

59:23

Like, that was a very boring fight.

59:25

Because Adesanya was like, I see your fucking game.

59:27

I'm going to stay out here and wait for you to charge in on me.

59:29

I'm going to counterattack.

59:30

And Yoel was like, come on.

59:32

Come fight me.

59:33

And he's like, oh, I know what you're doing.

59:35

Because he exploded one time and caught Izzy with a left hand, like a powerful

59:38

left hand.

59:39

And Izzy's like, oh, Jesus Christ.

59:41

This guy moves so fucking fast when he wants to.

59:44

But he can't really fight like that for five minutes for five rounds.

59:48

He can't really just keep exploding.

59:50

That's, like, the problem with a guy like Conor McGregor.

59:52

Like, Conor McGregor was lethal for one or two rounds.

59:55

But then you get into the third, fourth, and fifth.

59:58

There's so much fast twitch muscle fiber engagement.

1:00:01

There's so much explosion.

1:00:02

It's like constant sprinting.

1:00:04

Has he ever knocked out a guy after round two, even?

1:00:10

That's a good question.

1:00:11

I don't know.

1:00:12

I mean, he certainly could, right?

1:00:14

I mean, he's not out of shape.

1:00:16

I remember what you're saying, though.

1:00:17

It was, like, the later rounds.

1:00:18

It was so blatant.

1:00:20

He was gassed.

1:00:20

Well, he was so fast in the first couple of rounds.

1:00:24

That was the thing.

1:00:25

It's like, if he didn't fucking tune you up in those first couple rounds, if

1:00:29

you were

1:00:29

like Nate Diaz, some indestructible zombie, and then you get into the later

1:00:33

rounds, and

1:00:34

you're fucking tired.

1:00:34

Like, how is this guy still here?

1:00:36

And then Nate is just, like, slapping you and beating you up.

1:00:39

And Nate can push that 50% pace forever.

1:00:42

Yeah.

1:00:42

Him and his brother were very good at that.

1:00:44

They didn't really explode.

1:00:45

They just would, like, touch you.

1:00:47

They'd just touch you all the time.

1:00:49

And you can't breathe because you don't have the time to relax, right?

1:00:53

So if he's constantly hitting you with punches that aren't that hard, you're

1:00:56

like, because

1:00:57

you're always like, because you don't know if these punches are going to be

1:01:00

hard.

1:01:01

And then he occasionally would mix them up with, like, really hard shots.

1:01:04

And so you always have to be ready for the hard shots so you never get to

1:01:07

breathe.

1:01:08

You never get to relax.

1:01:09

So you're constantly on edge.

1:01:11

And you're just getting worn out.

1:01:13

And he's relaxed because he's just hitting you and touching you.

1:01:17

And he's talking shit to you.

1:01:18

What, bitch?

1:01:18

What, bitch?

1:01:19

What's going on, bitch?

1:01:20

And he keep hitting you this, like, 50%, like, literally like this.

1:01:23

Not really trying to hurt you at all.

1:01:25

Just constantly making you tense up and just drain your gas tank.

1:01:30

They seem relentless.

1:01:32

Oh, dude.

1:01:33

Well, his cardio, Nick Diaz especially, his cardio was insanity.

1:01:37

He swam back from Alcatraz.

1:01:40

He did it on five different occasions.

1:01:41

In the ocean with great white sharks.

1:01:44

What is it, like a mile and a half or something like that?

1:01:47

In the fucking freezing cold Pacific Northwest Ocean?

1:01:50

I don't know.

1:01:51

How far is Alcatraz, how far is this swim?

1:01:54

They used to think you couldn't do it.

1:01:56

They used to think no one could survive it.

1:01:59

So that's why they put Alcatraz there.

1:02:00

They're like, put a prison out there.

1:02:01

They're fucked.

1:02:02

But a couple of guys did escape, and they don't know what happened to them.

1:02:05

They found their clothes at the beach.

1:02:07

And there's speculation that at least one guy survived it.

1:02:10

But how are you going to train?

1:02:11

You can't train to swim, and then you're going to just swim for a mile and a

1:02:16

half?

1:02:16

Yeah.

1:02:17

You're not going to make it.

1:02:18

I don't know.

1:02:19

What's cardio regimens in prison?

1:02:23

I would have no idea.

1:02:24

I mean, you could do cardio, but you're not going to recreate swimming without

1:02:28

swimming.

1:02:28

The resistance, the current, like all of it.

1:02:32

Yeah, and temperature regulation.

1:02:33

Yeah.

1:02:34

You're just not going to be able to recreate that unless you're doing it, and

1:02:37

they're not

1:02:37

going to let you practice.

1:02:38

Like, guys, they're just going to do laps around Alcatraz.

1:02:41

Like, get the fuck out of here.

1:02:42

How far is it, Jimmy?

1:02:44

Mile and a half.

1:02:45

So a mile and a half in the fucking ocean with sharks.

1:02:50

When was this that these prisoners escaped?

1:02:52

Like, was this decades ago?

1:02:54

What was that?

1:02:55

Clint Eastwood movie.

1:02:56

Escape from Alcatraz.

1:02:57

Did you see it?

1:02:57

No.

1:02:58

Yeah, it was a movie about the actual escape from Alcatraz.

1:03:01

These guys had made a papier-mâché model of their face and, like, put some

1:03:06

pillows and

1:03:07

shit and threw a blanket over it.

1:03:08

And the guards, when they would go to check, thought these guys were still in

1:03:11

their bed.

1:03:12

Meanwhile, they had tunneled a hole through the wall of the cell.

1:03:16

1979 film, Escape from Alcatraz, presented inconclusive conclusions.

1:03:21

What does that mean?

1:03:22

On one of the island's enduring mysteries, it told the true story of three men,

1:03:26

Frank Morris

1:03:27

and the brothers Clarence and John Anglin, who made it out of the prison in

1:03:32

June of 1962,

1:03:34

were never seen again.

1:03:34

Nobody knows for sure whether they made good on their escape or drowned in the

1:03:37

attempt.

1:03:38

True stories like that and others embellished tales of man-eating sharks and

1:03:42

killer currents

1:03:43

spread by prison guards as a deterrent contributed to the mythology of unassailable

1:03:48

Alcatraz

1:03:49

and the impossible swim.

1:03:50

Well, it's definitely not impossible, because Nick Diaz has done it five

1:03:55

fucking times.

1:03:56

But people do it all the time now.

1:03:57

You know, it's like an endurance thing that people constantly do now.

1:04:01

Someone did it 979 times, this guy.

1:04:04

Whoa!

1:04:04

He does it monthly.

1:04:06

Oh my God, what a fucking psycho.

1:04:09

979 times?

1:04:10

That is rolling the dice on sharks, bro.

1:04:13

And what happens when you...

1:04:16

Like, Alcatraz is still operating?

1:04:20

No.

1:04:21

No.

1:04:21

No, okay.

1:04:22

No, it wasn't operating.

1:04:23

Oh, it's like a tourist attraction, right?

1:04:25

Yeah.

1:04:25

When I was a kid, we went to visit it with school.

1:04:28

When I lived in San Francisco, they took us to Alcatraz.

1:04:31

It's on our field trip.

1:04:31

It was pretty cool.

1:04:32

You get to be in these prisons where all these people used to get...

1:04:36

It's very weird.

1:04:37

Why did it shut down?

1:04:38

I don't know.

1:04:39

It's a good question.

1:04:40

Why'd they shut Alcatraz down?

1:04:41

Maybe when they figured out people could swim it.

1:04:43

That would be a good reason.

1:04:46

Yeah.

1:04:47

I mean...

1:04:48

It's not unassailable.

1:04:49

It's got to take a long time, though.

1:04:51

Like, how...

1:04:52

A mile and a half in the ocean.

1:04:54

How long does that take?

1:04:55

Some people think it was because those guys got away, but it was because it was

1:04:58

too expensive

1:04:59

to continue operating.

1:05:00

That makes sense, right?

1:05:02

You got to get all the supplies and out there by boat, by ferry.

1:05:04

I don't even think they had that many prisoners there.

1:05:07

Hmm.

1:05:08

Like, you know...

1:05:09

But they had, like, super dangerous ones there, right?

1:05:11

Wasn't that the whole idea?

1:05:12

It was all murderers.

1:05:13

I think it was, like, super maximum security, like, for the biggest psychos.

1:05:20

We put them on Alcatraz.

1:05:21

Yeah, what was that movie?

1:05:22

I think Sean Connery movie as well.

1:05:24

The Rock, yeah.

1:05:26

Yeah, that's about that, right?

1:05:26

Yeah.

1:05:27

I think, yeah.

1:05:28

Yeah, I think that was about it, too.

1:05:29

Yeah, but, you know, guys who have extreme cardio, like, that's a real weapon.

1:05:35

Like, power is important in the...

1:05:40

Well, it's always important, but cardio is one of the most important things

1:05:45

because you

1:05:45

just...

1:05:46

When you get tired, you don't think right.

1:05:47

You don't have...

1:05:48

You don't make good decisions.

1:05:50

And then you also...

1:05:52

You're just not as effective.

1:05:54

You're not going to scramble out of positions.

1:05:56

You're going to relax a little, try to catch your breath.

1:05:59

Like, if you get taken down, you're not going to, like, completely exert...

1:06:03

Chuck Liddell said this to me once.

1:06:04

He said, when guys get taken down, they accept the takedown.

1:06:07

And the thing is, they get taken down, and then they try to work their way back

1:06:11

up to

1:06:11

their feet.

1:06:12

He goes, I never did that.

1:06:13

When I got taken down, the moment my back touched the ground, it was like hot

1:06:16

lava.

1:06:17

And I just exploded immediately.

1:06:19

I never let them hold me.

1:06:21

And that was the key to never getting taken down and held down, is that the

1:06:25

moment...

1:06:26

He's a really good wrestler as well, obviously.

1:06:28

But the moment someone would take him down, he would never accept it.

1:06:31

He would just...

1:06:32

Some guys accept it.

1:06:33

Like, fuck, I got to take it down.

1:06:34

All right.

1:06:34

You know, overhook, underhook, you know, like control posture, work my full

1:06:39

guard, try to

1:06:40

get back up, try to buy time where I have enough energy to escape and figure

1:06:44

out, am I going

1:06:45

to try to sweep him?

1:06:46

Am I going to, you know, am I going to try to pummel and try to get back up to

1:06:50

my feet?

1:06:51

Am I going to try to scoot back to the cage?

1:06:53

A bunch of different strategies to try to get back up.

1:06:55

But the thing is, like, when you're tired, you'll accept that takedown.

1:06:59

Yeah.

1:06:59

And when you see guys accept the takedown and just pull full guard, like, that

1:07:02

guy's fucking

1:07:03

tired.

1:07:03

You know?

1:07:04

It was like the recent Oliveira fight.

1:07:06

It was, like, tough to watch some of the parts where it was just like, oh, it's,

1:07:11

you know,

1:07:11

you're on the ground now and you're fucked.

1:07:12

Yeah.

1:07:13

Yeah.

1:07:13

Well, that fight was crazy, huh?

1:07:16

Yeah.

1:07:17

Michael Chandler almost fucking had him in that fifth round.

1:07:20

Yeah.

1:07:20

Almost had him.

1:07:21

I mean, what a relentless motherfucker that guy is.

1:07:23

Yeah.

1:07:24

I mean, he was getting his ass kicked for four rounds and then finally almost

1:07:28

fucks him up.

1:07:28

Yeah.

1:07:30

Yeah.

1:07:30

It's crazy when it comes down to, like, you know, do or die mode, how many

1:07:34

times it almost

1:07:35

turns around.

1:07:36

Well, it's also crazy that a guy like him, who is pretty heavily muscled and is

1:07:42

just such

1:07:43

a fucking training machine that he has that ultimate gas tank even in the fifth

1:07:48

round,

1:07:48

just explode.

1:07:50

And, like, in the fifth round, he was going hard, which is why I always thought

1:07:54

he was

1:07:55

a super dangerous fight for Conor.

1:07:56

Yeah.

1:07:57

He almost seems like a better cardio, like Sean Shirk or something.

1:08:01

Right.

1:08:01

Well, Sean Shirk was one of the first guys who really did have crazy cardio.

1:08:05

Did he?

1:08:05

Yeah.

1:08:06

I thought he was so...

1:08:07

For the time.

1:08:08

Okay.

1:08:08

He was a fitness fanatic, like a conditioning fanatic, but, like, so was, um,

1:08:14

there was a

1:08:15

few guys, like, Rich Franklin was, like, a fitness fanatic, too.

1:08:18

Like, they dedicated a significant amount of their time just to strength and

1:08:22

conditioning,

1:08:23

so they had this, like, ultimate gas tank.

1:08:25

But, like, with Rich Franklin, the problem was his skill level was never going

1:08:30

to compete

1:08:31

with Anderson Silva.

1:08:32

Anderson Silva was just a god at the time.

1:08:35

I mean, in his prime, he was, like, 34 years old.

1:08:38

He was fucking unstoppable.

1:08:39

He was just so elite.

1:08:40

The athleticism differential between everyone and him was, like, obscene.

1:08:44

It was skill, too.

1:08:46

It's like, he had the ability to let punches get right here, and he would just

1:08:51

move his head

1:08:51

slightly and then, bang, crack you.

1:08:54

Was all your momentum is coming in, and he would counter you, and he was just

1:08:59

so skillful,

1:09:00

and he was, like, a computer.

1:09:01

He would, the first minute of the round, first fight, like, first round of the

1:09:06

fight, you

1:09:07

would see him moving around and just, like, trying things on you and just sort

1:09:11

of downloading

1:09:12

your movements and what you're capable of.

1:09:14

He would see you swing, like, okay, I got that.

1:09:16

Okay.

1:09:17

I'll do a little of this.

1:09:18

I'll kick him a couple of times, and then by the end of the round, he's, like,

1:09:21

okay,

1:09:21

motherfucker.

1:09:22

And then you'd see him, like, the Yushin Okami fight is a great example of that.

1:09:26

By the end of the first round, he head kicks Okami and drops him.

1:09:28

He just starts tuning him up.

1:09:30

He just, he gets what you can do.

1:09:32

He's, like, you can't do what I do.

1:09:34

And then he just starts turning it on.

1:09:36

Yeah, some of those fights back in the day just felt like a taking time bomb

1:09:39

for whoever

1:09:40

he was facing.

1:09:40

Yep.

1:09:41

People forget.

1:09:42

The thing about fighters, when they fight past their prime, is you get these

1:09:46

guys like

1:09:47

Anderson that fight into their 40s, and you remember them from their later

1:09:50

fights.

1:09:50

You don't remember them when they were unstoppable.

1:09:53

Like, when Anderson was in his prime, he's one of the greatest fighters that's

1:09:57

ever lived.

1:09:58

Oh, yeah, for sure.

1:09:59

Have you seen that UFC interview where they, like, accidentally showed, I think

1:10:05

it was, like,

1:10:06

HGH in the background?

1:10:07

Yes.

1:10:08

He opened his fridge.

1:10:09

What are you eating?

1:10:10

Oh, I'm eating growth.

1:10:11

Yeah.

1:10:12

He's popped for some dumb shit, too, if I recall correctly.

1:10:16

Well, did you ever see his coach?

1:10:18

His weightlifting coach?

1:10:19

Probably when I was looking into it, but I'm assuming he's yoked.

1:10:23

The dude was, like, 65 years old and built like Yoel Romero.

1:10:26

Oh, my God.

1:10:27

See if you can find Anderson Silva's strength and conditioning coach.

1:10:32

I mean, there's no way.

1:10:35

There's just no way.

1:10:36

That guy knows what to take.

1:10:38

Yeah.

1:10:38

There's no way.

1:10:39

He was in his 60s.

1:10:41

Fucking jacked.

1:10:42

I mean, just super jacked.

1:10:45

Like, that's him.

1:10:45

Oh, Jesus.

1:10:46

Yeah.

1:10:47

Look at Anderson's face.

1:10:49

It's a perfect picture.

1:10:51

I mean, look at that dude.

1:10:56

That dude's in his 60s.

1:10:57

Mean mugging.

1:10:58

Yeah.

1:10:59

Tainted supplements likely cause a failed test, not what's in my fridge.

1:11:04

Look at the size of that guy in his 60s.

1:11:07

So, obviously, he knows what to take.

1:11:10

Yeah.

1:11:11

That guy knows some stuff.

1:11:12

So, Chandler, you said good match for Connor.

1:11:16

Is that ever happening?

1:11:17

I don't know if Connor's ever going to fight again.

1:11:19

What's happening with his, he just got, like, the civil suit or whatever,

1:11:25

and he's being dropped by all his companies or something?

1:11:28

Yeah.

1:11:28

You know, I don't know the real details of that case.

1:11:32

I know his version of it and her version of it and what played out in the court.

1:11:37

But the reality is that guy's partying, and he's partying real hard.

1:11:43

And he talked about it in the court case.

1:11:46

You know, he's talking about cocaine.

1:11:47

Like, that was the whole thing, that we're all doing cocaine and we're fucking.

1:11:51

Dude, some of his interviews, you can tell he is out of it.

1:11:54

Allegedly.

1:11:55

He seems at least excited.

1:11:58

Dude, have you seen the Jake Gyllenhaal and Connor interview for Roadhouse?

1:12:02

And he's just fucking tweaking the whole time?

1:12:04

He seems like he's tweaking.

1:12:05

And Jake's just like, I can't imagine he wasn't thinking, what are you doing,

1:12:09

dude?

1:12:10

Right.

1:12:10

Yeah.

1:12:11

Right.

1:12:11

You know, it's funny.

1:12:12

Shane Gillis has a great bit about Conor McGregor in Roadhouse.

1:12:15

He goes, Conor McGregor basically played a coked out Conor McGregor in Roadhouse.

1:12:20

And Shane does like a Conor impression.

1:12:23

So it's fucking hilarious.

1:12:25

Like, ah, I mean, he likes coke.

1:12:28

Oh, yeah.

1:12:29

But I think there's another issue to talk about, and that is that a lot of

1:12:35

fighters, when they've sustained a significant amount of damage over the course

1:12:40

of their career, and there's no way to not get that, right?

1:12:43

I mean, we've all seen Conor get beat up and knocked out.

1:12:46

We've seen Conor's sparring footage.

1:12:49

He spars pro boxers.

1:12:50

He's sparring elite fighters.

1:12:51

You're getting hit in the head a lot.

1:12:54

And a lot of fighters, especially towards the end of their career, turn to

1:12:58

drugs.

1:12:59

And I think there's probably, like, a constant state of discomfort that they

1:13:04

live in, where their dopamine levels are all fucked up, their cortisol levels

1:13:09

are all fucked up.

1:13:11

Their body's just, you're not supposed to get punched in the head a thousand

1:13:15

times a year.

1:13:16

It's just not supposed to happen.

1:13:18

And that's the reality of consistent training.

1:13:20

So if you think about consistent training, like, say, you and me are sparring,

1:13:24

and we meet at the gym three times a week, and we spar three times a week.

1:13:28

So let's say we spar five rounds three times a week, five rounds of five

1:13:33

minutes each.

1:13:34

You might hit me 15, 20 times a round, and then we're doing that three times a

1:13:40

week, and we're doing that over and over and over again.

1:13:44

And it's not even – this is the thing people say, oh, you spar light.

1:13:48

Sure, sure.

1:13:49

Sparring light is important.

1:13:52

So subconcussive trauma to the head is what causes soccer players to get CTE.

1:13:58

Now, soccer players are getting CTE from a soccer ball.

1:14:01

I've bounced a soccer ball.

1:14:02

I played soccer when I was a kid.

1:14:04

That doesn't hurt.

1:14:04

But that, that thump, that's giving you CTE.

1:14:09

People who ride jet skis get CTE.

1:14:12

Wow.

1:14:13

Do you know that?

1:14:13

No, I didn't know that.

1:14:13

My friend Mark Gordon, who is an expert in traumatic brain injury, and he works

1:14:19

at the Wounded Warrior Foundation – I think he works with them – oh, Angel

1:14:24

Warrior Foundation.

1:14:25

He works with a lot of veterans that suffer from CTE and uses a lot of hormone

1:14:30

replacement to help them because a lot of it is damage to the pituitary gland.

1:14:35

Your endocrine system gets fucked up from, you know, breaches, you know,

1:14:39

explosions, blown up in IEDs, all those kind of things.

1:14:43

Like, those guys are fucked like the inside of their brain is fucked.

1:14:47

And there's a bunch of different therapies they apply to that, but the bottom

1:14:51

line is that it's not just getting knocked out.

1:14:53

It's just getting thumped a lot.

1:14:55

Just thumped in training.

1:14:57

So if we're sparring – you know, we're friends.

1:14:59

If we're sparring, I wouldn't hit you hard.

1:15:01

I'd hit you like that.

1:15:03

I wouldn't try to kill you.

1:15:05

I'd hit you like that.

1:15:05

But that over and over again, you're going to get brain damage.

1:15:10

Fact.

1:15:11

No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

1:15:14

You're going to get brain damage.

1:15:16

And if you're doing that over the course of a 10, 15-year career, think about

1:15:21

all those camps, all those rounds, all those times you sparred.

1:15:26

And not just sparred that way.

1:15:27

How many collisions – how many times I've been collided with doing jiu-jitsu,

1:15:32

you accidentally butt heads, you accidentally take a knee to the head, you

1:15:36

accidentally take an elbow to the head.

1:15:38

It's constant.

1:15:38

So you've got consistent trauma to your fucking dome over and over and over

1:15:44

again.

1:15:45

And then you get a little bit of coke, a little bit of coke, and you're feeling

1:15:48

good again.

1:15:49

I bet he – I bet, you know, you get addicted to it.

1:15:54

And the guy obviously likes extreme things, right?

1:15:56

Which is why he's such a great fighter.

1:15:58

They're wild people.

1:15:59

That's why Jon Jones liked cocaine too.

1:16:01

They're fucking wild people.

1:16:02

They want to fight.

1:16:03

You know, they want to fight in a cage for a living.

1:16:06

That's how they literally feed themselves, by beating the fuck out of skilled

1:16:10

people.

1:16:10

Yeah, I can imagine something like the brain cell death that literally occurs

1:16:16

could almost result in a perpetual state of you now need drugs to achieve, like

1:16:21

baseline even, to feel normal.

1:16:23

Yeah.

1:16:24

There's a drug I didn't mention earlier, but it's worth mentioning.

1:16:26

You said what's not being tested for that's useful.

1:16:29

In fighters, something called cerebrolysin is used to offset brain damage after

1:16:35

fights and not being tested for by WADA yet.

1:16:38

How does it work?

1:16:40

It's like one of the only sources of active NGF and BDNF that you can actually

1:16:45

get an effect out of seemingly.

1:16:47

So, like, brain-derived – I forget what the NF stands for – but it's

1:16:53

something that could be – basically grow new brain cells, essentially.

1:16:59

Whoa.

1:17:00

Yeah.

1:17:00

Or offset deterioration as well after fighting.

1:17:03

Why would you not let people take that?

1:17:06

That seems like that should be standard.

1:17:07

That should be given to everybody, like vitamins.

1:17:09

Yeah, yeah.

1:17:10

It's the pipeline of it getting through a clinical – like, getting a clinical

1:17:15

application.

1:17:16

It's still in experimental phases, so I could see why it hasn't been getting

1:17:21

widespread recognition.

1:17:22

And for all we know, it's not going to prove to be super effective, but at

1:17:26

least anecdotally, from people I know who've used it, highly effective for

1:17:30

neurogenesis.

1:17:31

Yeah, what about somebody who doesn't have brain damage, just wants to get

1:17:33

really smart?

1:17:34

Yeah, tough call.

1:17:36

I think that might work.

1:17:37

Yeah, a lot of people, even nowadays, are exposing themselves to things that

1:17:41

make them stupider, too.

1:17:43

So, it might even become, you know, an adjunct kind of, like, preventative

1:17:46

therapy.

1:17:47

Right.

1:17:48

Yeah, sure.

1:17:49

And it's, like, sometimes not even purposefully that you're doing things that

1:17:52

make you stupider.

1:17:53

It's just like –

1:17:54

Like, what kind of things would you describe?

1:17:56

I don't know.

1:17:56

Like, if you have kids, you're never getting good sleep.

1:17:59

Or you're somebody who's constantly on stimulants, which you could argue is,

1:18:03

you know, bad lifestyle or whatever.

1:18:05

But, you know, there are certain things that are going to kill brain cells and

1:18:08

just aging in general.

1:18:10

Have you seen the studies on creatine and performance with sleep deprivation?

1:18:15

And what's interesting.

1:18:16

Another thing that not being tested for, which I don't think it should be, but,

1:18:20

like, creatine at adequate doses, interestingly, for years, we've all been told,

1:18:25

take your five grams and you're good.

1:18:28

But what's often not talked about is the fact that that dosage is not going to

1:18:31

be widespread, the optimal one for every single person.

1:18:35

You will likely achieve muscle saturation with that dose, but it doesn't mean

1:18:39

you're going to get the full suite of benefits depending on your genetics, how

1:18:43

much you weigh, muscle mass, metabolism.

1:18:46

Right.

1:18:46

Like five grams for a 140-pound person versus a 240-pound person.

1:18:50

Yeah.

1:18:50

So, like, some studies have found increased benefits up to, like, 20 grams a

1:18:54

day.

1:18:55

Whoa.

1:18:55

Yeah.

1:18:56

And if your GI can tolerate it, like, could be worth trying to see if you get

1:18:59

an effect out of, you know, 10 grams and then elevate from there.

1:19:02

Do you take it?

1:19:03

Oh, yeah.

1:19:04

I take it in gummy form.

1:19:05

That's hard to get an adequate dose, though.

1:19:07

How is that?

1:19:08

Well, how many gummies do you need to take to get five?

1:19:10

I take six.

1:19:11

It says take three.

1:19:12

I take six.

1:19:13

Well, let's see what the dose is.

1:19:14

Go to try, create.

1:19:16

I take those two.

1:19:18

It's 1.5 per gummy, I think.

1:19:21

Okay.

1:19:21

So I'm taking seven, eight.

1:19:24

So some of the most recent studies are in, like, elderly women taking 20 grams.

1:19:28

Whoa.

1:19:29

Yeah.

1:19:29

I'll start doing that.

1:19:30

Start with, like, 10.

1:19:32

See if your GI tolerates it.

1:19:33

I have no problem with creatine.

1:19:34

Okay.

1:19:35

I used to think it made my face fat, but I think I was just eating too much

1:19:38

pasta.

1:19:39

One of the problems with gummies is oftentimes they're less likely to meet

1:19:43

label claims.

1:19:44

Oh, really?

1:19:45

I don't know if that's, like, a third-party rigorously tested product or not,

1:19:48

but something

1:19:49

to be cautious of.

1:19:50

Right.

1:19:51

And then there's two types, right?

1:19:52

There's creatine monohydrate, and then there's another creatine.

1:19:55

What is the other one?

1:19:55

There's different formats, but some are, like, HCL is essentially just bound to

1:20:02

HCL instead

1:20:02

of monohydrate, which could be more tolerable for somebody who gets GI distress

1:20:06

from monohydrate,

1:20:07

thought to be, you know, water solubility and other things.

1:20:11

But in general, monohydrate is the one that has the most literature supporting

1:20:16

it, is tried

1:20:18

and true, is cheaper, easier to access.

1:20:20

Isn't there some other stuff, H-something, that you take in combination with it?

1:20:24

Betaine, HCL, maybe?

1:20:26

Wow, HMN, what the hell is it?

1:20:30

HMB.

1:20:30

HMB, yeah, that's it.

1:20:32

What is that?

1:20:33

That's, I believe, a metabolite of leucine, which is, like, very, basically

1:20:39

stimulates mTOR.

1:20:40

So, could be useful for, I think, people who are not getting a sufficient

1:20:45

amount of protein

1:20:46

in their diet and need something to stimulate mTOR for adequate muscle protein

1:20:50

synthesis.

1:20:51

So, like, I don't know, older people who don't get enough protein, for example.

1:20:55

Right.

1:20:56

It has shown efficacy.

1:20:57

It's just the situations and contextually where it is the most effective is

1:21:02

going to be

1:21:02

somebody who is not eating enough protein.

1:21:05

But it's, like, how many people are eating enough protein as well?

1:21:07

Right.

1:21:08

Yeah, some studies have found that, you know, upwards of one gram per pound of

1:21:14

body weight

1:21:15

per day could be beneficial, and most people aren't getting that.

1:21:19

My diet is almost entirely protein.

1:21:21

Yeah.

1:21:21

Yeah, my diet is mostly meat.

1:21:23

It's pretty fucking hard to get your body weight and protein per day if you're

1:21:26

not supplementing

1:21:27

with protein.

1:21:28

You're just eating meat and, like, animal-derived sources.

1:21:31

And then even harder if you're a vegetarian, too.

1:21:34

If you're just eating meat and animal-derived sources, it's hard?

1:21:38

For, I think, for a lot of people, to get high-quality, just, if you're going

1:21:42

to eat over, I don't

1:21:43

know, a pound and a half to two pounds of meat a day, like, you could hit your

1:21:46

needs pretty

1:21:47

easily.

1:21:47

Oh, I do that easy.

1:21:48

Yeah, but that's not, like, a typical person, I would say.

1:21:51

That's most, most of my meals are meat.

1:21:54

Okay.

1:21:55

Like, my breakfast today, I ate, like, a pound of elk.

1:21:57

Yeah.

1:21:58

That was my breakfast.

1:21:59

So, what I do is I meal prep for the week on Sunday.

1:22:02

So, I'll take, out of my freezer, I take a bunch of elk steaks, and I put them

1:22:08

on the

1:22:08

Traeger.

1:22:09

I slow cook them at, like, 265 degrees until I get them to the proper internal

1:22:14

temperature,

1:22:15

and then I sear them, I cut them up, and then I put them in, like, a glass

1:22:18

container and

1:22:19

put them in my refrigerator, and then I pull it out whenever I want to eat.

1:22:22

So, you have how much meat per day?

1:22:26

Multiple pounds.

1:22:26

Multiple?

1:22:27

Yeah.

1:22:28

A cooked weight?

1:22:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:22:29

Wow.

1:22:29

Yeah.

1:22:30

I probably eat at least three pounds of meat a day.

1:22:33

Hmm.

1:22:33

Yeah.

1:22:33

Yeah, you might be getting, I forget how many pounds of meat you need to saturate

1:22:36

creatine

1:22:37

stores, or at least the equivalent of five grams, but you'd probably still

1:22:41

benefit from

1:22:41

trying supplementing more.

1:22:43

Well, I do take those gummies.

1:22:44

Like I said, I take six of those a day, but maybe I'm going to take-

1:22:47

I get the powder, bro.

1:22:48

I'm going to take 20 gummies.

1:22:49

See what happens.

1:22:51

Well, let's see what happens.

1:22:52

Half your calories, gummies, and the rest of meat.

1:22:55

Yeah, let's see what's up.

1:22:56

They don't seem to make you, they don't upset my stomach at all.

1:23:00

It makes you wonder if there's actually creatine in it then.

1:23:02

Wow.

1:23:03

I've never had an upset stomach from creatine.

1:23:05

I've taken it in the past.

1:23:07

But I'm taking it now more consistently than I've ever taken it before, because

1:23:10

with the

1:23:10

gummies, it's so easy.

1:23:11

I keep it in the gym.

1:23:12

I just bust it open.

1:23:14

Yeah.

1:23:14

Eat some of them.

1:23:15

Yeah, yeah.

1:23:16

It tastes good, too.

1:23:17

One of the most slept on supplements, for sure.

1:23:20

I think it kind of got a, I don't know, like not as much attention as it

1:23:24

deserves.

1:23:25

Maybe more recently, it's gotten a bit more hype because of some of the

1:23:28

literature around

1:23:29

its cognitive effects and whatnot.

1:23:31

But it's like super useful for a myriad of things.

1:23:35

What is the mechanism for it giving you a cognitive enhancing benefit?

1:23:40

I think it's thought to be like local energy production in the brain.

1:23:44

So some people genetically or as they age or what have you have deficiencies in

1:23:50

the capacity

1:23:51

to produce ATP.

1:23:52

And if you can like backfill it with like a readily available source of phosphocreatine,

1:23:58

then you could basically get it to baseline of where it should be.

1:24:01

It makes you wonder, like people that are on a vegan diet, like what are their

1:24:06

creatine

1:24:07

levels like?

1:24:08

Oh, not good enough for sure.

1:24:09

There's no way, right?

1:24:10

Oh, it's impossible.

1:24:11

Even if you're somebody who eats a lot of meat, you might think you're good,

1:24:15

but unless

1:24:16

you're eating multiple pounds a day, it's unlikely that you've saturated stores.

1:24:21

Well, that's like one of the more insidious things about these people that are

1:24:26

proselytizers

1:24:28

who are trying to get people to become vegan.

1:24:30

And one of the things that they say is that it'll improve your athletic

1:24:33

performance, which

1:24:34

is like straight horseshit.

1:24:36

Like, I don't know of any elite athlete at the very top of any sport that's a

1:24:40

vegan.

1:24:41

Do you?

1:24:41

No.

1:24:42

I know some IFBB pros who are vegan, but they do a lot to optimize their diets

1:24:49

that requires

1:24:50

like special protein supplements and this and that.

1:24:53

And a massive amount of steroids.

1:24:55

Yeah.

1:24:56

A lot of them are dope too.

1:24:57

Yeah, that helps.

1:24:58

Yeah.

1:24:59

There are definitely successful, like people who thrive, I think, doing vegan

1:25:05

diets, but

1:25:06

oftentimes it is more meticulous in the planning needed to like actually make

1:25:13

it so you could

1:25:14

thrive on it.

1:25:15

Right.

1:25:15

As opposed to like, if you're eating enough red meat and whatnot, like you've

1:25:19

sort of,

1:25:19

you can be stupid and still cover your bases essentially.

1:25:22

Right.

1:25:23

Yeah.

1:25:23

So the difference between, one thing is like if someone say, well, a pound of

1:25:28

broccoli

1:25:28

will equal, you know, X amount of steak in terms of the amount of protein that's,

1:25:33

but

1:25:34

it's not the same bioavailability.

1:25:36

Yeah, like the amino acid composition is not going to be the same and it might

1:25:40

not even

1:25:41

stimulate muscle protein synthesis to the capacity that is needed to actually

1:25:44

be anabolic.

1:25:45

So like some vegans, I would assume, might actually benefit from supplementing

1:25:51

with like

1:25:52

essential amino acids on top of their meals just because they're not hitting a

1:25:55

leucine

1:25:55

threshold.

1:25:56

Right.

1:25:57

So, and that's where like an HMB also could maybe have use as well.

1:26:02

And is creatine, is it sourced in a vegan way or is any of it derived from

1:26:08

animal sources?

1:26:09

That's a good question.

1:26:10

I'm not sure.

1:26:12

But if you can make testosterone from soy.

1:26:14

Right.

1:26:14

I think creatine you could probably get.

1:26:17

It's pretty crazy what they can synthesize.

1:26:20

Oh, dude.

1:26:21

Yeah.

1:26:21

You would never think that's where you get it from, right?

1:26:23

Yeah.

1:26:24

Well, it just takes so many brilliant people working in so many different

1:26:27

capacities to

1:26:29

create like all the stuff that we have available right now.

1:26:32

Yeah.

1:26:32

Like some dude like took a fucking yam and was like, hey, these chemicals look

1:26:36

similar

1:26:37

to these chemicals that we like make in our balls.

1:26:40

Like let's tweak it and like make it, let's sell it to people as testosterone.

1:26:45

Yeah.

1:26:45

I don't even know.

1:26:46

And it works.

1:26:46

Yeah.

1:26:47

That's what's nuts.

1:26:48

It's like super effective.

1:26:49

Yeah.

1:26:49

Yeah.

1:26:50

It's very strange that it's also kind of derided that like people like look

1:26:55

down upon it.

1:26:56

Like why would you look down upon anything, especially as you're an older

1:26:59

person?

1:27:00

Why would you look down upon anything that's going to make you feel better?

1:27:03

Yeah.

1:27:03

No, I think more awareness is coming to it, but also in women for HRT, which is

1:27:10

you can

1:27:11

argue even more of a necessity than at least with men.

1:27:15

A lot can maintain residual hormone production to some capacity that could

1:27:20

sustain good health

1:27:22

long-term.

1:27:23

But with women, once you hit menopause, like you are guaranteed to have like a

1:27:26

complete

1:27:27

cessation of estrogen and progesterone production to where you are guaranteed

1:27:32

putting your brain

1:27:33

and heart in danger if you don't replace those hormones.

1:27:36

Wow.

1:27:37

Yeah.

1:27:37

So it's almost like, I don't know, like unwinding some of the shitty

1:27:41

information that was put

1:27:42

out decades ago.

1:27:43

That's the thing for women.

1:27:44

There was a lot of shitty information put out about hormone replacement.

1:27:48

Yeah.

1:27:49

It's, uh, I think it was the women's health initiative.

1:27:52

They had some study that showed like a relative risk increase in breast cancer

1:27:56

or something to

1:27:58

the tune of some negligible, insignificant amount.

1:28:01

And they were also using synthetic drugs as opposed to bio-identical.

1:28:05

So it'd be like the equivalent of me putting you on DECA and then being like,

1:28:09

oh, well,

1:28:10

you got cancer, so testosterone sucks.

1:28:13

Right.

1:28:13

Yeah.

1:28:14

Which is fucking ridiculous.

1:28:15

Yeah.

1:28:15

So they were using like horse piss derived estrogens or something.

1:28:18

And then like some shitty progestin and determining, oh, HRT is bad because of

1:28:24

some also relatively

1:28:26

insignificant increase in cancer risk, which at least to date in bio-identical

1:28:31

hormones,

1:28:32

we have not seen play out.

1:28:33

And the upside far outweighs the risk seemingly that we can see right now.

1:28:39

It's just not really permeated the, uh, I don't know, like masses yet.

1:28:45

Well, think about how many fucking people are on testosterone replacement

1:28:48

therapy and how

1:28:49

few of them, you know, that have problems.

1:28:50

I don't know of anybody that has a problem with it.

1:28:53

I know of so many people that have been enhanced by it and they feel so much

1:28:56

better.

1:28:56

They have so much more energy, more life.

1:28:58

Yeah.

1:28:59

Yeah.

1:29:00

It's, uh, super impactful.

1:29:02

And for, for women too, like no more hot flashes while you're sleeping.

1:29:05

Your bones aren't going to degrade at the same rates.

1:29:08

Like your brain is not like Alzheimer's rates and women are like two X that of

1:29:12

men.

1:29:13

And it's really of, oh, it's definitely intertwined with menopause shutting off

1:29:18

their hormones.

1:29:19

Wow.

1:29:20

Yeah.

1:29:20

Well, there's so much shit information out there.

1:29:24

That's what's fucked.

1:29:25

When you hear about studies that like, you know, when, when the sugar industry

1:29:29

funded those

1:29:29

studies to demonize saturated fat, because they were trying to say the

1:29:33

saturated fat was

1:29:34

causing heart attacks and not sugar.

1:29:36

When you see about, and I think they only paid them like $50,000 or something

1:29:41

crazy.

1:29:42

So it's 1960s.

1:29:43

Oh my God.

1:29:43

You know, don't know that?

1:29:44

Well, I didn't know it was 50 grand.

1:29:46

I'm pretty sure.

1:29:47

I'm pretty sure it's like $50,000 and it ruined everybody.

1:29:51

Not that if it was a bigger amount of money, it would be fine.

1:29:53

But I mean, it's just shocking how little it was.

1:29:55

If they paid them 50 million, you'd be like, well, you know, they're unethical.

1:29:58

But hey, if somebody offered me 50 million, who knows what I would do?

1:30:01

No, $50,000 and these motherfuckers ruined people for decades and decades.

1:30:06

One of the portions just ruined like the fucking food pyramid.

1:30:10

Oh, it's like they've, they've, here it is.

1:30:13

Yep.

1:30:13

There it is.

1:30:13

50 years ago, sugar industry quietly paid scientists.

1:30:16

They wound up paying approximately $50,000 in today's dollars for the research.

1:30:20

So he's even less than $50,000.

1:30:22

So it's $50,000 today.

1:30:25

So 50 years ago, that's probably like $10,000.

1:30:27

Yeah.

1:30:28

They paid them $10,000 and these motherfuckers ruined everyone's health.

1:30:32

Yeah.

1:30:33

Got people taking margarine.

1:30:35

Like, brutal.

1:30:36

Being scared of butter and eggs and, and meat.

1:30:39

Damn, dude.

1:30:40

Crazy.

1:30:42

Yeah.

1:30:43

So your diet is just meat.

1:30:45

Yeah, mostly.

1:30:46

What about fruit?

1:30:47

I eat fruit.

1:30:47

Yeah.

1:30:48

Yeah, I love fruit.

1:30:49

Because you've been like cycling back and forth between.

1:30:51

I, I like fruit before I work out.

1:30:53

I like fruit after I work out sometimes.

1:30:55

You know, I like fruit, but I very rarely eat vegetables unless I want to.

1:31:00

Yeah.

1:31:00

Like if some asparagus and it's looking good, I'll have some asparagus.

1:31:03

You know what I mean?

1:31:04

Yeah.

1:31:04

Like if I see some Brussels sprouts, I eat it for taste.

1:31:06

Yeah.

1:31:07

Sort of like, I think of it like pasta, except not as bad for you.

1:31:10

Yeah.

1:31:11

I think of it as like, oh, that would probably taste good.

1:31:12

I'd like to eat some of that.

1:31:13

I don't think of it as like, this is like nutrition and fuel.

1:31:17

Yeah.

1:31:17

So when I, when I eat for nutrition and fuel, it's eggs and steak.

1:31:22

Yeah.

1:31:22

That's 90 plus percent of my diet.

1:31:26

Have you been following the boxing gold medal debacle with that?

1:31:32

First of all, XY chromosome, case closed.

1:31:35

Yeah.

1:31:36

If you have a fucking egg, and this is what the enhanced game wants to do.

1:31:38

So the enhanced games, you know, they're developing this.

1:31:41

Olympic style event.

1:31:44

And they're, they're spending a lot of money on it.

1:31:45

They have a lot of big investors and they're going to give real prizes.

1:31:49

It's like a million dollars if you win the gold medal instead of zero, which is

1:31:52

what the

1:31:52

Olympics goes.

1:31:53

And I asked them, I'm like, how are you going to address like trans athletes?

1:31:58

And they said, we think we're going to do chromosomes.

1:31:59

But yeah.

1:32:01

Yeah.

1:32:02

Which is really the only way to do it politically correct.

1:32:04

Yeah.

1:32:04

You know, you don't say, this is not a woman.

1:32:06

You say, what are your chromosomes?

1:32:07

If we've got it, ma'am, what are your chromosomes?

1:32:10

XY.

1:32:11

Ma'am, you got to be in the XY box.

1:32:13

Get over there.

1:32:13

But I identify as a woman.

1:32:15

Get over there.

1:32:17

Get over there.

1:32:19

Apparently, they used to do sex testing in the Olympics in the 90s, I believe.

1:32:23

They stopped doing it.

1:32:25

And then since then, it's been like these weird nuanced scenarios with, oh, is

1:32:29

your testosterone

1:32:30

level looking male or whatever?

1:32:32

And, you know, it gets nuanced with the type of, like, disorder you have

1:32:38

because some are

1:32:40

far more advantageous than others.

1:32:42

And if this medical report that was leaked of this boxer is true, it's

1:32:48

basically the worst

1:32:49

offender of the disorders you could have because it's basically like a 5-alpha

1:32:54

reductase deficiency

1:32:55

is basically just depriving your body of DHT.

1:32:59

But if you have internal testes making testosterone, you still have the full

1:33:02

functional capacity

1:33:04

of a male to build muscle and bone and all the psychoactive effects and all

1:33:07

that.

1:33:08

Yeah, lung size, heart size.

1:33:10

Now, to be determined, which I think that that athlete should go get the

1:33:16

testing to actually

1:33:17

disprove it if it was true or if it wasn't true.

1:33:20

But...

1:33:21

They would have already done that.

1:33:22

Yeah.

1:33:23

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

1:33:24

You know, I just, I think if too many people are calling you a man, like, there's

1:33:28

this

1:33:28

one case of, uh, there was that runner who...

1:33:31

Chastrosomania?

1:33:32

Right.

1:33:32

So that's a very different thing.

1:33:34

No, that was, like, potentially the same thing.

1:33:36

Really?

1:33:37

Yeah.

1:33:37

So...

1:33:38

XY chromosome?

1:33:39

Uh, had internal testes, XY chromosomes, 5-alpha reductase deficiency, and had

1:33:45

the testosterone

1:33:46

levels of a male because of the internal testes.

1:33:48

Oh, Jesus.

1:33:49

And you might grow up thinking that you are female because you haven't had

1:33:53

adequate sexual differentiation

1:33:55

and maturation from the lack of DHT.

1:33:57

So it's almost like the equivalent of putting a kid at birth on, like, a mega

1:34:03

dose of finasteride

1:34:04

or dutasteride and wiping out their DHT.

1:34:06

Oh, wow.

1:34:07

So they still grow up with male-level muscle development from the testosterone,

1:34:13

but no masculine...

1:34:15

Not sufficient masculinization to differentiate you and mature you completely

1:34:19

from the DHT.

1:34:20

Well, let's see, uh, what is, uh, the latest on this?

1:34:24

So let's find out what is the leaked story on this boxer and, uh, find out,

1:34:31

like, like, has

1:34:33

anybody analyzed this?

1:34:34

Is there any, like, conclusion that anybody's drawn?

1:34:36

I don't think so.

1:34:37

I think it's still, is the leaked report legit or not?

1:34:40

And...

1:34:41

There's a story I could find.

1:34:42

This is November 6th.

1:34:44

Confirms the Olympic boxing champion launching legal action over a medical

1:34:47

alligator.

1:34:48

But this is just about the legal.

1:34:49

No, no, I was looking for any story about it, having updated information.

1:34:53

This was the most recent story was written.

1:34:55

And anything else was from October where it was saying that she was not...

1:34:58

She's also saddened by the abuse she has received.

1:35:01

Do you think they'll go back and edit this if it turns out she's a man?

1:35:03

He's saddened by the abuse that he's received.

1:35:06

It was about the claims that they were stripped of their title or their gold

1:35:10

medal.

1:35:10

Oh, well, that's not true.

1:35:12

No, they haven't been stripped.

1:35:13

So if they're suing over that, that they can actually win that lawsuit.

1:35:16

No, they're suing over something in the French media because they've gotten, um...

1:35:21

And I feel like the Olympic committee probably has to lean into, you know, the

1:35:25

whole politically

1:35:27

correct angle of it, too, to not get the scrutiny of you let this person punch

1:35:30

women in the head.

1:35:31

Of course, of course.

1:35:33

Yeah.

1:35:33

Yeah, she'd never felt a punch like this.

1:35:36

Eh, so what?

1:35:36

Of all sports, too.

1:35:38

Yeah.

1:35:39

Fucking fighting people.

1:35:40

Yeah.

1:35:40

It's pretty crazy.

1:35:42

But so what is the leaked report, Jamie?

1:35:44

Find out what the leaked report...

1:35:46

Excuse me.

1:35:47

The leaked report on this person is.

1:35:48

That's what this has to do with, I think.

1:35:50

I understand what it has to do with it, but find out what the actual leaked

1:35:52

report is.

1:35:53

Like, what is the leaked report?

1:35:57

Oh, Jesus.

1:35:58

I think it was the, uh, basically assessment of...

1:36:02

Internal testicles.

1:36:03

Yeah.

1:36:03

Okay.

1:36:04

French journalists.

1:36:05

But it's been, there's been multiple studies or multiple, uh, articles written

1:36:10

saying that

1:36:11

this person has XY chromosomes.

1:36:12

That was, uh, a supposed failed gender eligibility test from some organization

1:36:18

that...

1:36:19

Yeah.

1:36:20

International Boxing Association did not allow her to participate in 2023 world

1:36:24

championships

1:36:25

after she failed gender eligibility tests.

1:36:27

But the International Olympic Committee did authorize her presence at Paris

1:36:31

2024.

1:36:32

But here's the thing, like, is this...

1:36:35

When, when they say the International Olympic Committee did authorize, what are

1:36:39

they...

1:36:39

By what?

1:36:40

Yeah.

1:36:40

This is the crazy thing is apparently their criteria was that you are female on

1:36:44

your passport.

1:36:45

Oh.

1:36:46

But it's like, you know, if you look female at birth, you easily could if you

1:36:52

have this disorder.

1:36:53

So...

1:36:54

Didn't Dylan Mulvaney change their passport to a female?

1:36:57

Oh, probably.

1:36:58

I don't know.

1:36:58

Did they?

1:36:59

Did they find out, can you change your passport to female if you're transgender?

1:37:03

I think you can.

1:37:05

Yeah, I agree.

1:37:06

I don't know if Dylan Mulvaney did it.

1:37:08

Like, that's so low barrier, too.

1:37:09

Like, you just have, like, a fucking ID piece that says you're female,

1:37:13

therefore we're going

1:37:14

to ignore testes.

1:37:15

Yeah.

1:37:16

Like, what the fuck?

1:37:17

The whole thing is so crazy.

1:37:18

This, this is one of the weirder aspects, and the reason why people harp on it

1:37:22

so much,

1:37:22

why is everybody so obsessed with trans?

1:37:24

Because, this is why.

1:37:26

Because it's bizarre.

1:37:27

No medical documentation.

1:37:28

You do not need to provide medical documentation to change your gender marker.

1:37:32

So, this is for, on U.S. passport.

1:37:35

You can select M for male, F for female, or X for unspecified or another gender

1:37:40

identity.

1:37:42

So, you could have X on your passport.

1:37:44

I think I'm going to get that.

1:37:45

So, no medical documentary.

1:37:47

So, I could be a female.

1:37:48

I could just say I'm a female, show up with a full beard.

1:37:50

Genetic marker you select doesn't need to match your gender on your citizenship,

1:37:55

evidence,

1:37:55

or photo ID.

1:37:56

So, the reason why this works is I don't know what's going on inside you.

1:38:02

I don't know how you feel.

1:38:03

I could be arrogant and completely not compassionate, and I could just decide

1:38:12

that you're just full of shit and you're a guy.

1:38:15

Or you could be in agony, going through life, feeling like a woman, and not

1:38:20

understanding why you have a dick.

1:38:24

I think there's that, too.

1:38:25

But, like I talked about in my comedy special, perverts disappeared like the

1:38:31

flu during COVID.

1:38:32

Like, they don't exist anymore.

1:38:34

Like, a guy in a dress who gets a hard-on going into the women's room is a

1:38:38

woman now.

1:38:39

They used to be psychos.

1:38:41

It used to be like Norman Bates in the movie Psycho, dressed up like his mom,

1:38:46

silence of the lambs, puts the lotion in the basket.

1:38:48

It was like, if you wanted to make someone in a movie scarier, you put them in

1:38:52

a dress.

1:38:53

You took a psycho killer, you made him dress like a woman, like, oh, this guy's

1:38:57

fucking crazy.

1:38:58

And then somewhere, we just decided that doesn't exist anymore.

1:39:02

And so there's no perverts.

1:39:03

And so anyone who just says they're a woman gets to go in the women's room, go

1:39:08

in the women's locker, play in women's sports,

1:39:10

and you're completely ignoring this subset of society that has always been

1:39:16

fucking terrifying to people.

1:39:18

Creepy guys who dress up like women, who pretend to be women, are just perverts.

1:39:23

They just want to sneak around women's room and smell their shit.

1:39:25

There's people that are out of their mind, and you've given them a hall pass.

1:39:29

Yeah.

1:39:30

Yeah, like, I could empathize with somebody who didn't know and then became

1:39:37

aware of it.

1:39:38

And then once they became aware of it, they stopped competing.

1:39:41

It would suck for everyone involved, obviously.

1:39:44

But, like, I could understand, like, how shitty of a predicament that is.

1:39:48

Yes.

1:39:48

But it's, like, the onus is on you once you've been assessed to not compete

1:39:53

anymore.

1:39:54

Right.

1:39:54

And to, like, confirm what the fuck is going on.

1:39:56

Yeah, go fight guys.

1:39:58

Yeah.

1:39:58

And it's, like, even if you're at a disadvantage, like, well, it doesn't mean

1:40:02

you fight girls at your advantage.

1:40:04

Exactly.

1:40:04

Yeah.

1:40:05

Yeah, if you were at a disadvantage fighting guys, you probably shouldn't be

1:40:07

fighting.

1:40:08

Yeah.

1:40:08

Like, how many girls are transitioning and then fighting men or competing

1:40:12

against men?

1:40:13

Zero.

1:40:14

Well, also, here's the other argument.

1:40:16

There is a spectrum, right?

1:40:17

So, there are guys with naturally lower testosterone that are guys, like, say,

1:40:21

Yoel Romero.

1:40:21

Yoel Romero has an advantage over almost everybody, you know, when it comes to,

1:40:26

like, genetics.

1:40:27

He's just, like, a fucking specimen from God, right?

1:40:30

So, you have that, which is the rarest of rare, right?

1:40:33

And then you have a guy, like, you know, fill in the blank.

1:40:36

There's, like, a bunch of fighters in the UFC.

1:40:38

I don't want to disparage anybody.

1:40:39

But there's a bunch of guys.

1:40:40

You look at them, you're like, that's not a specimen.

1:40:41

But super tough, super technical, works real hard, very intelligent in their

1:40:46

approach.

1:40:47

And they manage to fight really well.

1:40:48

But if they go up against a guy who's just a freak, just a physical freak, and

1:40:54

that guy works just as hard and is just as intelligent and just as methodical

1:40:57

in their training, they're going to have an advantage.

1:41:00

Just a natural, God-given advantage.

1:41:02

Just the universe has kissed them with genetics.

1:41:05

And those people exist, man.

1:41:06

And so, you can't say, well, then that guy should be able to fight women now

1:41:10

because he can't beat Yoel Romero.

1:41:11

Like, that's stupid.

1:41:12

That's fucking stupid.

1:41:14

And it's also, you're not protecting women.

1:41:16

I thought that the left was all about protecting women.

1:41:21

Like, this is the whole thing about progressives.

1:41:23

Protect people that are, like, not as safe.

1:41:25

Like, I don't generally worry about women raping me.

1:41:29

Never.

1:41:30

Yeah.

1:41:31

Never in my life have I been in a bar and go, boy, I hope some woman doesn't

1:41:35

try to rape me.

1:41:36

I hope some woman doesn't try to rape me and get my dick hard.

1:41:39

And no one ever thinks that way.

1:41:41

But women walk through life worrying about getting roofied or getting raped or

1:41:46

getting dragged into an alleyway.

1:41:48

They worry about that.

1:41:49

Guys don't worry about that.

1:41:50

It's just a completely different dynamic.

1:41:54

So when you're comparing, like, trans this and trans that, like, there's not a

1:42:01

guy I've ever talked to in my life that doesn't, that is even remotely

1:42:08

concerned with a trans man going into the men's room.

1:42:12

I don't give a fuck if, like, what's that person that was, Chaz Bono, Chaz Bono,

1:42:19

Sonny Bono's daughter that became a man.

1:42:23

Chaz can come into the men's room.

1:42:25

I don't give a fuck.

1:42:26

It doesn't even freak me out at all.

1:42:27

If Chaz is in the men's room and I have a two-year-old son with me that I have

1:42:31

to take into the bathroom and go to the bathroom, I'm not worried about Chaz

1:42:35

Bono.

1:42:36

But I am worried about a pervert.

1:42:38

If I was a guy and I had a daughter and she was, like, 10 years old and she

1:42:44

went into the women's room and then I saw a man with a fucking five o'clock

1:42:49

shadow and a wig on go into the bathroom behind her and I couldn't go in the

1:42:54

women's room and see what's going on.

1:42:56

I go, I don't know.

1:42:57

That might just be a really kind person who identifies as a woman and happens

1:43:01

to have a beard or it could be a complete fucking psycho, which are real things.

1:43:05

And by being this compassionate person, I'm supposed to ignore the reality of

1:43:10

psychos.

1:43:11

That's crazy.

1:43:13

This is where it becomes like a cult.

1:43:16

This is where it becomes like you're indoctrinated into this very rigid

1:43:20

ideology that you can't stray from at all.

1:43:23

And if you do, you're cast out of the kingdom forever.

1:43:27

You're a heretic.

1:43:29

You're a terrible person.

1:43:30

Yeah.

1:43:31

Fucked up, man.

1:43:32

It's, uh, I don't really know.

1:43:34

Even the scrutiny on it, I don't really know how they don't acknowledge how

1:43:39

absurd it is.

1:43:41

Like, it's when you watch people defend it, they have to do mental gymnastics.

1:43:46

Yeah.

1:43:47

It just does.

1:43:48

Do you ever see that conversation that I had with Adam Conover about it?

1:43:51

No.

1:43:51

Oh, oh, it was one of the most brutal conversations of all time.

1:43:56

It's about trans women in sports.

1:43:57

Oh, so this was like a debate.

1:43:59

Well, it didn't turn out to be.

1:44:01

It wasn't planned out.

1:44:02

It just came about because he was doing, you know, he's just, we were talking

1:44:06

about it.

1:44:06

And it got to the subject of trans women competing.

1:44:09

And his position was like, I'm in favor of a sport that's more inclusive.

1:44:14

So if that makes it more inclusive for the trans woman.

1:44:16

And he was like in favor of hormone blockers for children that they've always

1:44:21

known that

1:44:21

they're a woman.

1:44:22

Like, what the fuck are you?

1:44:23

You don't have any kids.

1:44:23

You don't know what kids are like.

1:44:24

You can tell your kids that they're a werewolf.

1:44:26

Like, stay, keep away from the full moon.

1:44:28

You're a werewolf.

1:44:29

Oh, I always knew.

1:44:30

Like, they're kids.

1:44:32

Their brain's not formed.

1:44:33

And also, they want to please you.

1:44:35

And if you're a, how many fucking Hollywood psychos have trans kids?

1:44:40

How many people where they fly the flag of inclusivity and they're a proud

1:44:46

progressive

1:44:47

and I'm proud that I have a queer child?

1:44:49

How much of that is your influence?

1:44:54

Is it 0%?

1:44:56

Because I bet it's not.

1:44:57

I bet there's some sort of reinforcement of that.

1:45:00

It's just like the numbers are so extraordinary.

1:45:04

When you have parents that have three trans kids, you're like, what?

1:45:06

Three?

1:45:07

What are the odds of that?

1:45:09

And you're nuts?

1:45:11

You're a nutty actress and you have three trans kids?

1:45:14

What's going on here?

1:45:16

And you're not allowed to say it.

1:45:18

If you say anything, you say, oh, this person who's clearly mentally ill might

1:45:22

actually be

1:45:22

mentally ill and might actually have Munchausen syndrome, you know, like they

1:45:26

might be doing

1:45:27

something terrible to their child because they're just fucking nuts and they

1:45:30

want a trans kid,

1:45:31

like so they could fly it as a, they could put their pride flag on their

1:45:34

fucking front door

1:45:35

and they feel like a better person.

1:45:36

There are people like that.

1:45:38

And then there are also people that are just compassionate people that want

1:45:40

people to be free

1:45:41

and do whatever you want.

1:45:42

They want you to have complete freedom to express your, I don't care if a guy

1:45:45

wears a dress,

1:45:46

wear a dress, man.

1:45:47

If that's what you like, I don't care.

1:45:49

You want to paint your nails, want to have lipstick on, I don't give a fuck.

1:45:52

Have a good time.

1:45:52

I want you to be happy.

1:45:53

I'll be your friend.

1:45:54

Just don't try to compete against women in sports.

1:45:57

That's fucking nuts.

1:45:58

And don't try to make women uncomfortable by walking with your dick out in the

1:46:02

women's locker room.

1:46:03

How about the guy in Canada that's 50 years old that identifies as a teenage

1:46:10

girl

1:46:10

and was competing in like young girls swimming and they allowed him because

1:46:14

Canada, like, you know,

1:46:15

you live there off the rails.

1:46:18

You live in a communist shithole.

1:46:19

That place is nuts.

1:46:21

And they allow some of the most bananas trans stuff of all time.

1:46:26

They, on taxpayer money in Canada, they paid for a guy to develop breast milk.

1:46:32

Do you know about this story?

1:46:33

No.

1:46:34

Oh, yeah.

1:46:34

Has an adopted child paid for them, paid for this person to lactate.

1:46:40

Imagine the toxic milk that's coming out of this man tit.

1:46:43

Oh, horrendous.

1:46:44

Like, what is in there?

1:46:46

Like, what are you generating?

1:46:48

You don't even have the glands for it.

1:46:50

Like, what's actually being secreted there?

1:46:52

Like, what is that?

1:46:53

Yeah.

1:46:54

It's like, if you asked me, would it be good milk quality from some guy on Tren

1:46:59

or Deca and

1:47:00

he's just fucking secreting shit out of his nipples, I'd be like, fuck no, dude.

1:47:04

Fuck no.

1:47:05

Yeah.

1:47:05

Like, what is happening?

1:47:06

What is in that milk?

1:47:08

And what is that going to do to the baby that's sucking on it?

1:47:10

And all in the name of inclusivity, all in the name of being a kind,

1:47:14

compassionate, open-minded

1:47:16

person.

1:47:16

That's not open-minded.

1:47:18

That's nuts.

1:47:19

And it's cowardly.

1:47:20

Because you're afraid to say what you know to be true because you don't want to

1:47:23

suffer

1:47:24

the repercussions.

1:47:24

You don't want to be called a transphobe, whatever the fuck that means.

1:47:28

You don't want to be called a bigot.

1:47:29

You don't want to be called any of these things.

1:47:31

So you'll go along with some of the most preposterous ideas, including

1:47:35

pretending that

1:47:36

perverts don't exist.

1:47:37

Yeah.

1:47:38

I hope, I don't know if Pierre is going to get into winning the election and

1:47:43

get Trudeau

1:47:44

out, but seems like a reasonable guy.

1:47:48

Well, he seems way more reasonable than Trudeau, who seems completely insane.

1:47:53

Yeah.

1:47:53

And like, candidly, I'm not like a political expert by any fucking means at all.

1:47:57

So don't take anything I'm saying seriously.

1:47:59

Apparently, last time I was here, people thought I was like, by not saying

1:48:03

anything about it,

1:48:04

I was like endorsing Trudeau or something.

1:48:06

By not saying anything about it?

1:48:07

I don't know.

1:48:08

There was like comments about how, like, Derek knows better.

1:48:11

He knows who this Pierre guy is.

1:48:13

I'm like, no, I just don't follow this shit like I should probably.

1:48:15

Yeah.

1:48:16

But yeah, he seems reasonable.

1:48:18

And in contrast to Trudeau, who's like a fucking gong show.

1:48:23

Full-on lunatic, who's completely changed his tune on so many different things,

1:48:27

including

1:48:27

going after guns, what they did with the trucker, the trucker strike.

1:48:32

Yeah.

1:48:32

Like the debanking thing you guys talked about recently.

1:48:34

It's like not new news in Canada.

1:48:37

I know.

1:48:38

Yeah.

1:48:38

Well, they did it to people who donated.

1:48:40

Yeah.

1:48:40

To the trucker convoy, which is really crazy.

1:48:43

So you just say, hey, these people shouldn't be mandated to get a vaccine that

1:48:47

has, you know,

1:48:48

a safety profile that's really like, we don't really know yet.

1:48:51

We don't know.

1:48:52

There's no long-term studies.

1:48:53

We don't really know what's going to happen.

1:48:54

And you're just like mandating this.

1:48:56

Yeah.

1:48:57

Why?

1:48:57

Yeah.

1:48:58

Why?

1:48:58

I don't have to do it.

1:48:59

Why are you making me do it?

1:49:00

It turned out you really didn't have to do it.

1:49:02

So this is what's turned out now.

1:49:03

Like, you know, was it the, here, I'll send it to you, Jamie.

1:49:08

So they released a study recently where the actual government went and looked

1:49:14

over, here,

1:49:16

I'll send you this.

1:49:16

So they went and looked over what the actual results were from the pandemic.

1:49:21

And the findings are, they're, you know, not that shocking to anybody who was

1:49:27

actually paying

1:49:28

attention, but completely contrary to what the instructions were when we were

1:49:32

young.

1:49:33

And this, or when, you know, COVID was recent, rather.

1:49:36

So COVID-19, this is, the House released a 500-page report on COVID-19 pandemic.

1:49:42

Key findings, COVID-19 likely originated from a lab-related incident in Wuhan,

1:49:46

China.

1:49:47

Crazy.

1:49:47

You get banned from YouTube for saying that.

1:49:50

Banned.

1:49:51

Okay, over $200 billion in relief funds lost to fraud, with criminals exploiting

1:49:58

weak oversight.

1:49:59

Prolonged lockdowns and arbitrary mandates caused severe harm, economic devastation,

1:50:04

mental

1:50:05

health crises, and historic learning loss, while lacking robust scientific

1:50:10

support.

1:50:11

Policies ignored natural immunity, pushing mandates that eroded trust and

1:50:15

harmed public perception

1:50:17

of science.

1:50:18

Absolutely.

1:50:18

WHO and CDC compromised by political interference, offering inconsistent, unscientific

1:50:25

guidance

1:50:26

that fueled public distrust, and the key players included federal agencies and

1:50:31

Cuomo's administration

1:50:33

actively obstructed oversight efforts and hid critical evidence.

1:50:37

Christ.

1:50:39

Select subcommittee on coronavirus pandemic basically said all the conspiracy

1:50:43

theorists were correct.

1:50:45

Every single one of them, no repercussions, no retractions, no apology from

1:50:50

Rachel Maddow,

1:50:51

none of it.

1:50:52

Yeah, man.

1:50:54

It's, uh, yeah, in Canada, the lockdowns were pretty absurd.

1:50:57

Um, I know here they were, uh, it depended on the state and whatever, but yeah,

1:51:02

Canada was

1:51:03

like, get your vaccines or you're not leaving to go anywhere, basically.

1:51:06

Yeah.

1:51:07

Yeah.

1:51:07

Crazy.

1:51:08

Fucked up.

1:51:08

Did you have to take it?

1:51:09

Yeah, dude.

1:51:10

Fucking sucked.

1:51:11

Did you have a side effect?

1:51:12

No.

1:51:13

Well, at least that I could tell and I've-

1:51:15

Did you ever do a D-dimer test?

1:51:16

Yeah.

1:51:17

You're okay?

1:51:18

Oh, that's good.

1:51:18

Yeah.

1:51:19

Well, from what I understand, I talked to a friend of mine who's very

1:51:22

knowledgeable

1:51:23

in this and he said that one of the real problems was the lack of, uh,

1:51:26

aspiration, that they

1:51:27

didn't aspirate when they, uh, injected people.

1:51:29

Even when they did Biden on television, they just jammed that thing into his

1:51:32

arm and

1:51:33

and shot it in there.

1:51:34

So is it supposed to stay like local or something?

1:51:37

It's supposed-

1:51:38

The idea about it was it's supposed to stay local, right?

1:51:41

It's supposed to stay local.

1:51:42

But apparently there's been, if you talk to Brett Weinstein, a bunch of other

1:51:46

people,

1:51:46

there's a lot of debate as to whether or not it is ever local, that they've

1:51:49

been able

1:51:50

to find the evidence of the spike protein all throughout the body.

1:51:53

And the, the issue though was if you didn't aspirate and you went right into a

1:51:57

blood vessel.

1:51:58

Ooh.

1:51:59

So that could be the cause of myocarditis, all these different neurological

1:52:04

conditions,

1:52:05

all these different things.

1:52:06

So the lipid nanoparticles and this vaccine gets in your system, your body

1:52:11

reacts.

1:52:12

It reacts to it like it's being attacked, right?

1:52:14

Well, if it gets to the heart, your heart doesn't heal, right?

1:52:18

Which is why your heart doesn't get cancer.

1:52:21

Your heart scars, like your liver heals, your liver regenerates.

1:52:24

You could lose half your liver.

1:52:26

You know, you can donate half your liver to someone and it'll grow back in

1:52:29

weeks.

1:52:29

Yeah, yeah.

1:52:30

The liver's resilient.

1:52:31

It's nuts.

1:52:32

Yeah.

1:52:32

But your heart's not like that.

1:52:33

So the heart scars over and it leads to, you know, enlargement of the heart, myocarditis,

1:52:38

pericarditis.

1:52:39

So this is the thought, this is what my friend told me, who's a very

1:52:43

intelligent person, I

1:52:44

want to name him.

1:52:45

But he said that the real issue is that they didn't aspirate.

1:52:48

And a significant number of people that are experiencing these long-term issues

1:52:53

from the

1:52:53

vaccine, it's because it went right into their bloodstream when it was supposed

1:52:57

to be intramuscular.

1:52:58

Yeah, there is several times now, because especially if you're on TRT, you're

1:53:03

probably more understanding

1:53:06

of how to inject yourself almost than somebody who's like a random pharmacist

1:53:10

that just jamming

1:53:11

people as fast as they want every single day, just as part of their gig.

1:53:14

And you're kind of risking it if you just let somebody else pin you.

1:53:18

Like sometimes you feel like being like, hey, can I do this?

1:53:22

Right.

1:53:23

Yeah.

1:53:23

Right.

1:53:24

But even then, like if you jam it into your arm, it's possible that you could

1:53:27

hit a blood

1:53:28

vessel.

1:53:28

Yeah.

1:53:29

Have you ever heard of Trencoff?

1:53:30

I have.

1:53:31

What is that?

1:53:31

So it's thought to be that if you get into, like you nick a vein or something,

1:53:38

or you'd

1:53:38

like hit a blood vessel, for example, and you get some of it bleeding

1:53:41

immediately into systemic

1:53:42

circulation rather than being intramuscular entirely, it goes very quickly up

1:53:48

to your lungs

1:53:50

and you basically have a coughing fit get induced by your body trying to like

1:53:54

expel whatever is

1:53:55

there.

1:53:55

Whoa.

1:53:56

And so like I could absolutely see something that wasn't meant to go

1:54:00

immediately into systemic

1:54:02

circulation being more problematic.

1:54:04

Like with Trencoff, I've experienced it personally back in the day.

1:54:07

This is like one of the most sobering things about bodybuilding is if you get Trencoff,

1:54:12

it's

1:54:13

like the most pathetic scenario you'll ever find yourself in because you're

1:54:16

just this muscle

1:54:17

bound dude who just injected yourself with like cattle steroids and you're just

1:54:21

looking at

1:54:22

yourself in the mirror, hacking up a long, sweating your fucking face off.

1:54:25

Like what am I doing with my life?

1:54:27

And you can't get around it other than just like cough a lung for three minutes.

1:54:32

It takes three minutes for it to go away?

1:54:33

It depends, but like how much you have and all this, a bunch of stuff.

1:54:37

But yeah, it's like basically if it happens, you can feel it coming on.

1:54:41

You just like fucking brace yourself on the sink and you can get ready to hack

1:54:44

up a lung

1:54:44

for a few minutes.

1:54:45

Jesus.

1:54:46

And is it a consistent thing or is it a one-time thing?

1:54:49

Like right after injection or is it something that recurs?

1:54:51

After injection, but it's like, you know, who knows what that does once you get

1:54:55

like solvents

1:54:56

and fucking, you know, like whatever else is in your compound, in your solution

1:55:01

into systemic

1:55:01

circulation immediately.

1:55:02

Like, I don't know.

1:55:03

What is, Tren is something that the craziest of people that I know have taken,

1:55:08

including like

1:55:09

jujitsu guys that really want to get super jacked.

1:55:12

They take Tren.

1:55:12

Yeah.

1:55:13

And I'm like, what is it about the Tren?

1:55:15

And they apparently get like ultra violent when they're on Tren?

1:55:17

Yeah.

1:55:18

So it's a unique compound that was-

1:55:23

Is it called Trenbalone?

1:55:23

Is that what it's?

1:55:24

Yeah.

1:55:25

And it used to be used in for like, I forget what the clinical application was,

1:55:31

but it was

1:55:32

a pharmaceutical approved steroid back in the 80s and then was, you know,

1:55:36

basically taken

1:55:37

off the market similar to around the same time that, interestingly enough,

1:55:41

Biden was the one

1:55:42

who spearheaded getting like steroids scheduled essentially.

1:55:46

Biden did?

1:55:47

Yeah.

1:55:47

He was like at the forefront of pushing for the banning of them or scheduling.

1:55:52

If I don't have muscles, nobody has muscles.

1:55:54

Yeah.

1:55:54

And that's like, he's blamed often by the bodybuilding community for the lack

1:55:58

of refinements and anabolic

1:55:59

steroids because now we're stuck with the same drugs we've been using since

1:56:02

like the 80s.

1:56:03

Wow.

1:56:04

So like every drug category has had significant refinements over the years to

1:56:09

make them more

1:56:10

effective, less side effect ridden, et cetera, like GLP-1 medications, for

1:56:14

example, highly

1:56:15

effective and constantly being like lightning through pipelines to create

1:56:20

really, really refined

1:56:21

ones that are less problematic.

1:56:23

And with steroids, that was being done in the 80s.

1:56:27

And then once there was, you know, the Ben Johnson debacle, I believe it was.

1:56:32

Yeah.

1:56:32

That brought all this, you know, public outcry.

1:56:35

Another proud Canadian.

1:56:36

Yeah.

1:56:37

And getting tested positive for Winstrel, I think.

1:56:40

And people were like, is this just going to become like a fucking like chemical

1:56:45

warfare essentially

1:56:46

in the Olympics?

1:56:46

And whoever's doped the most is going to win.

1:56:48

People are freaking out.

1:56:49

And the response was Biden getting it, including testosterone, scheduled.

1:56:54

Wow.

1:56:55

Yeah.

1:56:56

And then there was this huge stigma developed around them and the taboo of

1:56:59

being on steroids

1:57:00

was developed.

1:57:00

And that's kind of what led to this probably slowing down progress decades and

1:57:06

likely preventing

1:57:07

people from getting steroids developed that were far less likely to kill them.

1:57:12

Yeah.

1:57:13

So we could have like a really refined, highly effective compounds by now that

1:57:18

don't make

1:57:19

your heart explode if you just, if they just continued probably.

1:57:22

Well, I know that one state, I think it was Oregon, essentially decriminalized

1:57:28

everything.

1:57:29

I think they've taken that back now because I think it was like a, just Oregon's

1:57:33

a disaster

1:57:34

anyway, Portland in particular.

1:57:35

Like you go, there's just needles and drug addicts and it's like open air drug

1:57:40

marts everywhere

1:57:41

because all the homelessness and the camping on the street, the, the tent

1:57:44

situation there

1:57:45

is fucking nuts and they're super tolerant, progressive people.

1:57:49

So like overwhelmingly, right?

1:57:51

So they just look at it like in terms of compassion for these people, we need

1:57:55

to fund them and you're

1:57:56

basically giving them money to stay homeless.

1:57:58

It's really nuts.

1:57:59

So when a society like that decriminalizes everything, we just going to have

1:58:04

fucking, people are going

1:58:05

to go haywire with meth and, and, and you know, and whatever else they want to

1:58:09

get, but they

1:58:10

also did it with steroids.

1:58:11

They did it with everything.

1:58:12

They essentially decriminalized all drugs.

1:58:15

Hmm.

1:58:15

But I think they took, did they take that back, Jamie?

1:58:18

I would be curious, even if it was decriminalized though, what the access would

1:58:21

be like, because

1:58:22

it's still going to be contingent on compounding pharmacies, being able to make

1:58:26

stuff legally,

1:58:27

which from what I understand is actually getting worse scrutiny as opposed to

1:58:32

like it getting

1:58:33

better.

1:58:34

Well, they're scrutinizing peptides now, which is really crazy.

1:58:37

Oregon law rolling back drug decriminalization takes effect, making possession

1:58:42

a crime again.

1:58:43

So is it of all things, did they just change the law totally?

1:58:48

So this is a democratic control legislation passed the recriminalization law in

1:58:52

March, overhauling

1:58:54

a measure approved by 58% of voters in 2020 that made possessing illicit drugs

1:58:58

like heroin

1:58:59

punishable by a ticket and a maximum $100 fine.

1:59:02

The measure directed hundreds of millions of dollars in cannabis tax revenue

1:59:05

towards addiction

1:59:06

services, but the money was slow to get out the door at a time when the fentanyl

1:59:10

crisis

1:59:10

was causing a spike in deadly overdoses and health officials.

1:59:14

Grappling with the COVID-19 pandemic, we're struggling to stand up the new

1:59:18

treatment system

1:59:19

state auditors found.

1:59:21

Okay.

1:59:22

So they just couldn't keep up with what was, they didn't follow through with

1:59:26

the whole idea

1:59:26

of these addiction centers and rehabilitation centers.

1:59:32

Yeah.

1:59:34

And like some of this stuff is like, I don't even know how much it would help

1:59:38

being able to

1:59:39

possess something when you can't even get it prescribed to begin with.

1:59:43

Right.

1:59:43

You can't manufacture it.

1:59:44

Yeah.

1:59:45

Like if you're allowed to get cocaine, if you're allowed to possess cocaine,

1:59:48

well, are

1:59:49

you buying fentanyl-laced cocaine from the cartel?

1:59:51

Like what do you...

1:59:51

Yeah.

1:59:52

Like in Canada, it's not a, I'm pretty sure it's not a crime to possess

1:59:56

steroids, but to

1:59:57

sell it and distribute it, it is a crime.

1:59:59

And there's still no pharmacies that are making like pharmaceutical grade

2:00:04

steroids that

2:00:04

aren't testosterone.

2:00:05

Could a pharmacy make it and give it away?

2:00:08

Have you had some Elon Musk type fucking crazy person?

2:00:11

I don't think so.

2:00:13

Probably not.

2:00:14

Right.

2:00:14

So if it's decriminalized and you're allowed to possess it, are you allowed to

2:00:18

make it?

2:00:18

No.

2:00:19

I think just like the process of distributing, I don't even know.

2:00:24

But I know like Oxandrolin, for example, Anivar was recently like banned

2:00:28

entirely and it's

2:00:29

been allowed to be prescribed for certain like hyper-specific niche purposes

2:00:34

for decades.

2:00:36

It's been around since the 80s.

2:00:37

And it's banned in America as well?

2:00:39

Yeah.

2:00:39

Like recently it was added to like, it was basically de-approved.

2:00:44

But why?

2:00:45

Good question.

2:00:46

Apparently.

2:00:47

But you can still get the COVID-19 vaccine?

2:00:49

Yeah.

2:00:50

Easily.

2:00:50

They'll still tell you to get it.

2:00:51

Yeah.

2:00:52

Try to give it to kids.

2:00:53

Yeah.

2:00:54

Sucked up, man.

2:00:55

Yeah.

2:00:56

It's crazy because like how many people are dying from Anivar?

2:00:59

Not many.

2:01:01

Yeah.

2:01:02

Like what's the numbers?

2:01:03

It's like, what is it?

2:01:04

Like Brazil nut deaths?

2:01:05

You know what I mean?

2:01:06

It's definitely not the safe, it's safe drug.

2:01:09

But I mean like it's, you know, when it's used appropriately, it can be fine.

2:01:13

Right.

2:01:14

Yeah.

2:01:14

But there's not a crisis.

2:01:15

No, no.

2:01:16

Yeah.

2:01:16

That's the thing.

2:01:17

It's like, why are you passing laws when there's not an issue?

2:01:21

Yeah, I don't know what the effect of RFK will be, but it sounds like he might

2:01:27

be able to

2:01:27

influence things now in like a positive direction to that stuff.

2:01:30

He looks a little saucy.

2:01:31

Oh, for sure.

2:01:32

He's 70.

2:01:33

I think he admitted that he's on TRT.

2:01:35

Clearly.

2:01:36

I mean, you would have to be the craziest genetic freak of all time to carry

2:01:40

that kind of muscle

2:01:41

mass at 70 naturally.

2:01:42

Yeah.

2:01:43

Yeah.

2:01:44

So that's good.

2:01:45

And he also is open to the idea of changing the classification of psychedelics

2:01:51

as well,

2:01:52

which I think is going to be really important to people.

2:01:53

There's a lot of things that morons are preventing society from using, and that's

2:01:59

really all it

2:02:00

is.

2:02:00

People who are ignorant to the effects, ignorance to the risk, they're ignorant

2:02:03

to all of it,

2:02:04

and they're compromised generally by pharmaceutical drug companies.

2:02:07

Yeah.

2:02:08

I definitely think psychedelics have utility.

2:02:10

One thing I do see that freaks me out, though, is people permanently changing

2:02:15

their brain

2:02:15

chemistry with like heavy ayahuasca exposure or whatever.

2:02:19

Oh, yeah.

2:02:20

Like, have you seen, I've seen multiple cases of this on social media, as well

2:02:24

as in real

2:02:25

life, people have gone like retreats and then come back unrecognizable in their

2:02:29

demeanor

2:02:29

and how they behave, and not in a good way.

2:02:31

Right.

2:02:31

Like weirdos.

2:02:32

Oh, yeah.

2:02:33

I know a few.

2:02:34

Yeah.

2:02:35

Like, have you seen Liver King recently?

2:02:37

No.

2:02:38

What's going on?

2:02:38

He seems like, I don't know, like borderline schizophrenic now.

2:02:41

Okay.

2:02:42

But is that also, I think he was mentally ill, right?

2:02:46

Maybe.

2:02:47

I would have, listen, let me just classify my definition of mentally illness as

2:02:51

someone

2:02:52

who lies.

2:02:52

I think it's a mental illness.

2:02:54

Okay.

2:02:54

I think lying, when it's really obvious.

2:02:57

Yeah.

2:02:57

Like, you know, if I try to tell people I'm six foot three, that's an obvious

2:03:01

lie.

2:03:01

If I say that over and over again until somebody comes up with a ruler, that's

2:03:05

crazy.

2:03:05

You have to be a crazy person.

2:03:06

That's a mental illness.

2:03:07

If you lie and say you're black and you're actually white and you like work for

2:03:10

the NAACP,

2:03:11

like the Rachel Dolezal lady, kind of mentally ill, right?

2:03:15

Yeah.

2:03:16

So that's a mental, that's a mental, there's something wrong.

2:03:18

You're not like, you're not thinking clear and you're doing a thing that we

2:03:22

generally like

2:03:23

universally say is a bad thing, which is lying.

2:03:25

Right.

2:03:26

So if you're doing that, you're lying about taking steroids when it's super

2:03:29

obvious you're

2:03:30

on steroids.

2:03:31

You're 46 years old.

2:03:32

You look like a fucking superhero.

2:03:33

You're right.

2:03:34

You're just super jacked, you know, and then gets caught.

2:03:38

Okay.

2:03:39

So now he has to come out and say that he's, now imagine you've never been

2:03:43

famous and then

2:03:45

all of a sudden you are really, really famous really quickly over the course of

2:03:49

a few years,

2:03:49

like social media, all over TikTok.

2:03:53

Your profile is elevated to the point where you could say to the regular person

2:03:57

in the street,

2:03:57

you know who Liver King is.

2:03:58

Like, oh yeah, that roided up guy.

2:04:00

Everybody knows who he is.

2:04:01

Then the hate because your labs come out and it finds out he's on a shitload of

2:04:06

things.

2:04:07

This guy's juiced to the tits.

2:04:08

Obviously for a guy like you or a guy like me, we look at a guy like that, like,

2:04:12

you've got

2:04:13

to be on the juice.

2:04:13

You don't even look remotely normal.

2:04:15

Everyone says that though too, but a lot of people believe them.

2:04:19

Well, a lot of people are just ignorant, right?

2:04:21

But the people that knew, like yourself, 100%, you knew that that guy was on

2:04:26

steroids, right?

2:04:27

So then imagine the anxiety that comes with being exposed and then the hate.

2:04:33

Now, I don't, this dude, I don't know what this dude does in terms of like

2:04:38

social media

2:04:38

if he reads comments, but just imagine the psychological effect of being bombarded

2:04:44

by people calling

2:04:45

you a piece of shit and a liar and a fraud all day long.

2:04:50

Every time you check your Instagram or whatever you got, your YouTube, the

2:04:56

comments are filled

2:04:57

with people who hate you.

2:04:59

Filled with it.

2:05:00

And you're just like sitting there stewing in your own shit and just freaking

2:05:04

out about

2:05:04

your decisions.

2:05:05

Your brain probably gets overrun by stress.

2:05:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

2:05:12

It's, uh, I don't even know for him specifically either if he did psychedelics

2:05:18

or not.

2:05:19

I'm pretty sure he's talked about it openly, but it was just like some of the

2:05:22

videos were

2:05:23

really odd.

2:05:23

And it kind of reflected behavior I've seen of people who have like experiences

2:05:28

gone awry,

2:05:29

but certainly not representative of what happens if it's done properly.

2:05:32

Well, I think it's depends on if it's done properly to who.

2:05:36

Yeah.

2:05:37

Like your baseline state and like what you're, yeah.

2:05:40

I think there's people like, this is the argument that Alex Berenson had when

2:05:44

he wrote that book.

2:05:45

You know, he used to write for the New York times.

2:05:47

He wrote a book called tell your children and it's all his argument is that

2:05:50

marijuana is

2:05:51

not safe for everybody, right?

2:05:54

It's safe for a lot of people.

2:05:55

I know a lot of people use marijuana all the time.

2:05:58

They don't have any problems, but I do know multiple people that have gone

2:06:02

schizophrenic

2:06:03

for marijuana.

2:06:03

Now, is it they were going schizophrenic anyway?

2:06:06

And then these high dose marijuana experiences were the tipping point?

2:06:10

We don't really know, but we do know there's a correlation and I've seen it.

2:06:15

I've seen it with multiple people where they were really normal.

2:06:19

And then all of a sudden they start talking to you about like, you know, like

2:06:22

someone's

2:06:23

talking to them in their head and there's a chip and Elon Musk is going to have

2:06:27

them

2:06:27

going to be the king of Mars and like people lose their shit, man.

2:06:30

And they, they go into this world of paranoid fantasy and delusion.

2:06:35

And it's horrible to see, especially if it's someone that you care about.

2:06:38

It's really fucking weird.

2:06:40

Kills your REM sleep too.

2:06:42

Marijuana does.

2:06:43

Yeah.

2:06:43

Well, if you're using it like to sleep, it can reduce sleep latency, but

2:06:47

significantly harms

2:06:49

REM sleep.

2:06:50

So you might not be getting quality sleep every night, which exacerbates the

2:06:53

effect.

2:06:54

It definitely fucks with your dreams.

2:06:55

Yeah.

2:06:56

You know how I know this?

2:06:57

Sober October.

2:06:58

Yeah.

2:06:58

When we do sober October, like immediately have these wild dreams, like super

2:07:03

vivid dreams.

2:07:04

I'm like, where are these things been?

2:07:05

So like for the whole month, it was crazy.

2:07:08

Do you track the sleep metrics when you're doing sober October verse?

2:07:12

No, I was doing it for a while with whoop.

2:07:15

I was like checking my recovery.

2:07:16

I wasn't that, I'm basically a feel person.

2:07:19

Like, how do I feel?

2:07:20

I'm pretty good at knowing how I feel.

2:07:22

And if I feel well rested, if I got eight hours sleep and I feel well rested, I'm

2:07:26

not

2:07:26

even going to check mine.

2:07:27

I don't care.

2:07:28

I feel great.

2:07:29

Let's go.

2:07:30

Let's go.

2:07:30

I just like, I think so much of it is mental.

2:07:33

You know, so much of it is like the energy that you have to approach your day

2:07:37

is enthusiasm

2:07:38

and health.

2:07:39

You know, that's where your energy generally comes from.

2:07:42

Yeah.

2:07:42

The stress of tracking can sometimes like defeat the purpose as well for some

2:07:46

people.

2:07:46

I think it's also, you know, I've heard people talk about like addiction, you

2:07:50

know, like

2:07:51

how many people are addicted to their phones?

2:07:53

Most of us, right?

2:07:54

There's an addiction to checking like health metrics.

2:07:58

There's a, and there's also an addiction like competing, but I would say that

2:08:02

that's an addiction

2:08:03

that's fairly positive because you're addicted to these numbers that are

2:08:08

correlated with health

2:08:09

benefits.

2:08:10

So it was like, what is addiction?

2:08:12

Okay.

2:08:12

If you're a gambling addict and you're losing your house and your children don't

2:08:15

have food.

2:08:16

Okay.

2:08:16

That's a detrimental addiction.

2:08:18

But if you're addicted to exercise and you're super fit because of it, you're

2:08:23

going to live

2:08:24

longer and you're healthy as fuck and you look great.

2:08:27

Is that really an addiction?

2:08:28

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing.

2:08:32

We're talking about the same kind of pattern, but like I've been addicted to a

2:08:36

lot of things.

2:08:37

I've been addicted to martial arts for sure.

2:08:40

Like if I don't, I would be like out in public and if people, if people were

2:08:44

boring to me,

2:08:45

I'd be thinking of combinations.

2:08:46

I'd be like talking to them.

2:08:48

I wasn't thinking about what they were saying.

2:08:50

I was thinking about how it hit them.

2:08:52

I'd think about like, if they step like this, then I go like that.

2:08:54

But what if I step here?

2:08:55

I was like working out footwork and I would do it in my head because I was an

2:08:58

addict,

2:08:59

but I was addicted to something that was very positive.

2:09:02

Yeah.

2:09:03

No, it's a, you need somewhere to attribute your, I don't know, dopamine to, I

2:09:08

guess.

2:09:08

Yeah.

2:09:09

So if it's positive, it's like probably the best thing you could hope for as

2:09:13

long as you

2:09:13

don't go over the top, which is pretty difficult to do with health stuff.

2:09:16

Well, you can break yourself down with overtraining.

2:09:19

You know, I would say that my good friend David Goggins is broken his body down

2:09:24

with overtraining.

2:09:25

He's, he's got no cartilage in his knees and he's running thousands of miles.

2:09:29

He's a complete psychopath.

2:09:31

He must be in agony, like every step he takes and he does not give a fuck.

2:09:36

He just keeps going.

2:09:37

It's really crazy to see.

2:09:39

His doctor looked at his knees and said, and this is from him directly.

2:09:43

He said, I don't know how you could walk on these knees.

2:09:45

Forget about run thousands of miles.

2:09:47

Yeah.

2:09:48

They had to cut his, his knee because it's bone on bone.

2:09:51

His bone was distorting so much by growing to kind of like deal with the

2:09:56

inflammation.

2:09:58

And like, it's like some, I forget what it's called.

2:10:00

It's something wolf syndrome, something.

2:10:02

So they had to cut his leg, cut his fucking tibia bone and shift it down so

2:10:09

that it's flat.

2:10:10

So they could run flat bone on bone.

2:10:13

That's fucked.

2:10:14

Dude, it's madness.

2:10:16

Dude, it's even more madness is the guys who get their tibia smashed open and

2:10:22

femur and

2:10:22

then get height increasing surgery.

2:10:24

That's crazy.

2:10:25

Do you, do you find that one guy was like 6'2 who did it?

2:10:28

Dude, I'm doing a podcast with him in two days.

2:10:30

What is it called?

2:10:31

I got my knees done.

2:10:32

Is that what he, he took his page down though, didn't he?

2:10:34

Yeah.

2:10:35

I think he was off social media for a while.

2:10:37

And, um, I, I was actually going to do a podcast with him last year and then it

2:10:42

didn't end up

2:10:42

working out and he's available and into the idea still.

2:10:46

So that's, well, is he fully healed now?

2:10:48

He went from six foot to six foot six.

2:10:50

Jesus Christ.

2:10:52

Look at the size of him.

2:10:54

And this is him wheeling himself around.

2:10:56

And he was a massive guy too.

2:10:58

Like, look at the size of his fucking arms.

2:11:00

Yeah, the guy is like a genetic freak for muscle for sure.

2:11:03

And let's become taller.

2:11:05

They're cranking their legs.

2:11:06

This is nuts.

2:11:07

So basically they go in and shove these rods into your legs, either in the tibia

2:11:15

or the femur,

2:11:16

or you can do both if you want to max out and you can basically micro adjust,

2:11:21

stretch it

2:11:22

to create a separation between the bone, which then fills in with new bone over

2:11:27

time.

2:11:29

And this is him seven months after the lengthening process.

2:11:32

I want to see what your legs look like, dude.

2:11:34

Why you got sweatpants on?

2:11:35

See what those little toothpicks look like.

2:11:37

Yeah.

2:11:37

So this guy went from like, I don't know what his original height was, but he's

2:11:41

six feet

2:11:41

now.

2:11:41

And he was like, I think five, six or five, seven when he started.

2:11:44

Wow.

2:11:45

That's crazy.

2:11:46

So I have a lot of questions about, is your athleticism permanently fucked now?

2:11:50

Are you ever going to be able to squat again?

2:11:52

You know, like, what's life like now?

2:11:55

What was the surgery process?

2:11:56

Rehabilitation?

2:11:57

What are your mechanics?

2:11:59

Like you have to change.

2:12:00

You have to learn how to fucking do everything.

2:12:01

The distance between your shin, like your kneecap and your foot.

2:12:05

If that changes dramatically, like your whole timing is different.

2:12:10

You have more, a different leverage.

2:12:12

Everything's different.

2:12:14

What does it do to your hips?

2:12:15

Yeah.

2:12:16

You know, are you going to wear your hips out earlier?

2:12:18

Like your body's probably like has to compensate for these freakishly long shins

2:12:22

now.

2:12:23

Yeah.

2:12:23

And this guy too, he's a unique phenomenon, even among the people doing this

2:12:28

crazy surgery,

2:12:29

because he got the full six inches, which is not necessarily typical having

2:12:36

both bones

2:12:37

broken to do it, and then maxing it out at the weight he's at too.

2:12:41

So he has to support the recovery on like a, I can imagine, seemingly like 300

2:12:46

plus frame

2:12:47

or something.

2:12:47

Jesus Christ.

2:12:49

Like a lot of people who get it done are like 5'6", trying to become like 5'.

2:12:52

They weigh 150.

2:12:53

Yeah, yeah.

2:12:53

And it's like more.

2:12:54

Right.

2:12:55

It's still probably fucking insane, regardless.

2:12:57

It's insane.

2:12:58

Yeah.

2:12:58

But.

2:12:59

Well, it's just, you're only stretching one bone, right?

2:13:02

Yeah, I have to.

2:13:03

Are they doing the tibia as well?

2:13:05

You pick.

2:13:06

So the tibia and the fibulae, rather?

2:13:08

Are they doing both of them?

2:13:10

Femur or tibia or both.

2:13:11

Oh, you can do femur?

2:13:12

Yeah.

2:13:13

Oh.

2:13:13

Yeah.

2:13:14

I could be misspeaking, but I'm pretty sure it's one or the other.

2:13:17

Or both?

2:13:18

Yeah.

2:13:19

Oh, Jesus.

2:13:20

And he has both done, and he like maxed it up.

2:13:21

Oh, Jesus.

2:13:22

Yeah.

2:13:23

So he's.

2:13:25

What is the recovery like?

2:13:26

Yeah, good question.

2:13:27

So.

2:13:28

So this is this guy after how long?

2:13:30

It's a couple weeks after.

2:13:32

He's still on how he can jump, which is not much.

2:13:35

A couple weeks after he gets his surgery done?

2:13:38

No, no.

2:13:39

No.

2:13:39

No, no.

2:13:40

After he gets the bars pulled off?

2:13:41

This is all, it's like week by week, I think.

2:13:43

Jumping after height surgery.

2:13:45

Oh, look how skinny his legs are.

2:13:47

So he's pretty skinny.

2:13:48

So this is him in the beginning.

2:13:49

He's trying to do it.

2:13:50

I would be terrified to do that.

2:13:51

See, I would be.

2:13:52

My curiosity is how athletic were they prior, and then what is their maximal,

2:13:57

like, what's

2:13:59

their max out point of recovery in contrast to their baseline?

2:14:02

Because, yeah, you could show me a box jump that looks like you're somewhat

2:14:06

functional, but.

2:14:08

Look at his legs.

2:14:08

That's so crazy.

2:14:09

Yeah.

2:14:10

So they, like, stick a rod in it and micro.

2:14:13

How long is it process?

2:14:14

I think, like, a year, probably, or, I don't know, months.

2:14:18

So for a year, you're walking around with these, like, iron shin plates.

2:14:21

Yeah.

2:14:22

Yeah, it's pretty nuts, dude.

2:14:24

Whew.

2:14:25

Look at him.

2:14:26

Getting all the bitches now.

2:14:28

Yeah.

2:14:30

Looking all sexy and tall.

2:14:31

Now, there was one guy, Jamie, that you pulled up before who had it done, and

2:14:36

they showed

2:14:37

him doing some athletic drills, like cone drills and coordination drills, and

2:14:42

he looked fucking

2:14:43

great.

2:14:43

He looked like a real athlete, even though he got it done.

2:14:47

It didn't look like it was, unless he's just unbelievably athletic before and

2:14:51

maintained

2:14:51

a lot of it.

2:14:52

I would like to know, like, did you have a decrease?

2:14:54

Like, could you?

2:14:55

I mean, you obviously look insane right now, but what'd you used to be able to

2:14:59

do?

2:14:59

Yeah, some of the stuff I'm curious about, too, is, like, how much of the

2:15:03

content you see

2:15:04

online is, like, sponsored versus actual, like, user content just reviewing

2:15:09

their experience?

2:15:10

Because you could see, like, for example, hair transplants.

2:15:14

Tons of people get sent, like, fully paid to go get a transplant done, as long

2:15:20

as they

2:15:21

speak positively about it, and whatever.

2:15:23

So imagine a guy who's getting, like, specialized attention, which you would

2:15:27

want if you're

2:15:28

getting your fucking legs broken, and you're getting it covered, or whatever,

2:15:31

and you just

2:15:32

have to make sure you talk about it positively.

2:15:34

Right.

2:15:34

How much of that content is, like, legit versus, you know, somewhat

2:15:39

manufactured?

2:15:40

That's a very good point.

2:15:41

Yeah.

2:15:42

That's also one of those things where if you're a social media influencer, you

2:15:46

probably want

2:15:47

to appear like you're doing all the right things.

2:15:50

Yeah, you would never want to admit that you fucked yourself up for height-increasing

2:15:54

surgery.

2:15:54

I can't walk right.

2:15:55

I'm in pain all the time.

2:15:57

I can't run anymore.

2:15:58

You'd become the case study for, like, why to not do it.

2:16:02

Yeah.

2:16:02

Yeah.

2:16:03

I wonder, I mean, I wonder, like, what kind of an effect that would have on

2:16:06

your mechanics.

2:16:08

I really do.

2:16:08

I would imagine for martial arts, like, you know where everything is.

2:16:13

Like, if I'm throwing a kick, I know exactly where my shin is going to land

2:16:19

from the distance

2:16:21

that I'm at.

2:16:21

Yeah.

2:16:21

Like, I've got, like, this mind.

2:16:23

My mind is coordinated for this short body.

2:16:26

I know exactly how much distance I have to cover.

2:16:29

If all of a sudden you add six inches to that, you're all, you're, everything

2:16:33

is weird.

2:16:34

Dude, even gaming, even gaining a bit of muscle can throw off your depth

2:16:38

perception of how

2:16:39

strong, like, for example, when I was in high school, I played basketball and I

2:16:43

started working

2:16:44

out in grade 11 and gained, like, 50 pounds in a year, and my three-pointer

2:16:50

that used to

2:16:51

be just, like, just fucking money every time I knew exactly how to shoot the

2:16:56

ball, like,

2:16:57

it was, you know, just second nature to, because you've been doing it for a

2:17:00

decade or whatever,

2:17:01

and then all of a sudden you add this extra force production that you're not

2:17:05

accounting

2:17:06

for, all of a sudden everything's thrown off.

2:17:09

And also you're sore all the time, because you're always lifting, which makes

2:17:12

you tight.

2:17:13

Yeah, it became a brick house after that.

2:17:15

It's a giant problem with pool, you know, because I'm addicted to playing pool.

2:17:19

When I lift weights and then play pool, it takes, like, an hour before I can

2:17:23

loosen up

2:17:23

and play good.

2:17:24

Oh, man.

2:17:25

Everything's off.

2:17:26

It's like my arm's not listening right.

2:17:28

It's all stiff.

2:17:29

Like, for pool, you want to, like, when I'm playing really well, I'm barely

2:17:33

holding on

2:17:34

to that cue.

2:17:35

It's like I'm almost letting the cue do all the work.

2:17:38

It's, like, a very gentle thing.

2:17:39

Yeah.

2:17:40

But then when I've been, like, I do, like, a heavy kettlebell session,

2:17:42

and then I try to play pool, it's like...

2:17:44

Everything's just tight and goofy and clunky, and you don't feel it.

2:17:51

Like, pool is like a feel game.

2:17:53

Like, you're feeling how many rotations you're putting on the ball to get it to

2:17:58

move to the

2:17:58

next position.

2:17:59

Like, literally, you're within one or two rotations correctly.

2:18:04

Yeah.

2:18:04

And that's the difference between getting into an area where you can make the

2:18:08

next shot or

2:18:09

not.

2:18:09

Yeah.

2:18:09

Like, so it's all feel.

2:18:12

Like, these guys, like, Fedor Gorst, who's, like, one of the best players in

2:18:15

the world,

2:18:16

he changed cues.

2:18:17

He changed cue companies.

2:18:19

Like, the same weight, the same, like, taper, the same tip millimeter, and he

2:18:26

said his shot

2:18:27

was about 10% off.

2:18:28

He goes 6% to 10% off.

2:18:29

I was like, what?

2:18:30

Yeah.

2:18:31

Like, how?

2:18:31

He's like, you just, it's off.

2:18:34

It takes a while to recalibrate.

2:18:36

Yeah.

2:18:36

This is one of those examples where, like, you know, in MMA, too, like, if you

2:18:40

gain a bunch

2:18:40

of muscle from drugs, even, like, it's not necessarily beneficial.

2:18:44

Your mobility could be inhibited flexibility, gas out quicker.

2:18:48

Even in BJJ, it's like, and you can sauce to the tits, but, like, it might not

2:18:53

be helpful

2:18:54

to the capacity you can actually push it.

2:18:56

Right.

2:18:56

You know, you might gas out quicker.

2:18:57

All of a sudden, you can't do things that you used to do.

2:19:00

I think the key is moderation and lifting in regard to, unless you're on the

2:19:05

sauce, you

2:19:07

know, if you're doing anything like MMA or any skill-based thing, because as

2:19:12

soon as you're

2:19:12

tight and sore, you're not going to learn well.

2:19:14

You're not going to have a snap to your punches.

2:19:18

You'll be pushing punches.

2:19:20

You know, there's a fluidity, like, some of the hardest techniques almost look

2:19:25

effortless

2:19:26

because there's a fluidity to the, like, if you're landing a kick, for example,

2:19:30

like,

2:19:30

a hard kick, like a spinning back kick, like what Jon Jones knocked out Stipe

2:19:33

Miocic with.

2:19:34

There's a dance going on with your nervous system, with all your muscles moving

2:19:40

in coordination.

2:19:41

If you think of how complex that movement is, right?

2:19:45

He's standing like this sideways, and he's looking for the—and at the right

2:19:50

moment,

2:19:51

he pivots on the ball of his foot, turns his heel towards the person, rotates

2:19:56

his entire

2:19:57

body this way, and shoves his leg forward, pushing off his back leg with all of

2:20:03

his weight,

2:20:04

and there's a timing.

2:20:05

You don't want to hit him here, and you don't want to hit him at the end of it.

2:20:09

You want to hit him right in the sweet spot.

2:20:11

So you've got to know your foot on extension is going to be properly distanced

2:20:17

from his ribcage

2:20:19

in order for you to get maximum force.

2:20:21

And it's all happening in a fraction of a second.

2:20:23

It's just, whoomp!

2:20:24

And when it lands, it's like getting hit by a fucking car.

2:20:27

And if you tie—but it's a dance.

2:20:30

And if you're—here, you see him do this.

2:20:32

Look at this.

2:20:32

Fucking dance, man.

2:20:34

Watch this.

2:20:35

Look at that turn.

2:20:36

Boom!

2:20:36

I mean, it's perfection.

2:20:38

I had a feeling that if anyone could appreciate this, it would be you, for sure,

2:20:45

given this

2:20:45

is, like, your signature, right?

2:20:47

Oh, that's my specialty kick.

2:20:48

Yeah.

2:20:48

That's, uh, yeah.

2:20:50

Not that everyone is impressed by it, but, like, I knew you would see it as,

2:20:54

like—

2:20:55

I was so hyped up for it because I always wondered why more people don't throw

2:20:58

it.

2:20:58

And that's also the same kick that Max Holloway landed on Justin Gaethje at the

2:21:02

end of the

2:21:02

first round.

2:21:03

He fucked him up at the end of the first round with a spinning back kick to the

2:21:06

face, which

2:21:07

is a crazy kick to take in the mud.

2:21:09

Sick fight, too.

2:21:09

Sick fight.

2:21:10

But, you know, Stipe's one of the toughest guys to ever walk the face of the

2:21:14

earth.

2:21:14

For him to go down like that—look at the force.

2:21:17

Look at the force.

2:21:17

Boom!

2:21:18

I mean, your hole—his rib went in.

2:21:21

Like, look how deep it goes in.

2:21:23

On impact.

2:21:24

Look how fucking deep his heel is in—look at that.

2:21:28

That's insane.

2:21:29

That's, like, the body equivalent of that Tony Ferguson picture.

2:21:33

Right.

2:21:34

Right.

2:21:35

The one when he gets front kicked in the face?

2:21:37

Yeah.

2:21:37

I mean, that is incredible amount of penetration.

2:21:40

Look at that.

2:21:41

I mean, all of his organs just went into shock right there.

2:21:45

And if he was on the other side, it would be even more devastating.

2:21:49

Because that's not even the side where the liver is.

2:21:51

Yeah.

2:21:51

That's just general organ trauma.

2:21:54

Mm-hmm.

2:21:54

You know?

2:21:55

And he just can't take it.

2:21:57

He just goes down, and then that's a wrap.

2:21:59

So what happens when Aspinall fights Jon Jones?

2:22:03

I've got to hope they fight.

2:22:05

I want to know.

2:22:06

It's got to happen, right?

2:22:07

Here's a question with Aspinall.

2:22:08

What happens with Aspinall in the second round?

2:22:10

Oh, I guess he has it.

2:22:12

You want to talk about a guy who sprints.

2:22:14

Yeah.

2:22:14

You want to talk about a guy who's fast twitch.

2:22:16

Aspinall is one of the fastest heavyweights.

2:22:18

He might be the fastest heavyweight in the history of the sport.

2:22:22

I don't think anybody moves like that guy does.

2:22:24

At a 250-plus pound frame, his movement's fucking extraordinary.

2:22:29

And that's something you have to deal with.

2:22:32

Like, that is a crazy ability.

2:22:34

His ability to move, like the way he moves, is so much different than everybody

2:22:38

else in the sport.

2:22:39

Like, Google, let's come up with a good Aspinall fight.

2:22:43

How about the Curtis Blades fight was pretty quick.

2:22:47

But how about the last one with the Pavlich fight where he won the interim

2:22:52

title?

2:22:52

That's a good one.

2:22:53

That's a minute.

2:22:55

I got Volkov with three minutes.

2:22:56

Yeah.

2:22:57

All of his fights.

2:22:58

Like, all together, he's fought like ten minutes.

2:23:01

Everybody gets blown out real quick.

2:23:03

Yeah.

2:23:04

But let's watch one of them.

2:23:06

Like, the only loss he has was he blew his knee out throwing a kick, which is

2:23:09

crazy.

2:23:10

He didn't even get hit.

2:23:11

He threw a round kick and his ACL exploded.

2:23:14

So, let's see Marcin Tabora.

2:23:18

That's a good one.

2:23:19

He's so fucking fast, dude.

2:23:23

The Andrei Olofsky fight, you can see that's pretty fast, too.

2:23:27

Put the Tabora one.

2:23:29

It's the left-hand side.

2:23:30

Go above that, to the left.

2:23:32

Right there.

2:23:33

Click on that.

2:23:34

No, but it's going to be a small.

2:23:35

Just click on it.

2:23:35

I can't control this.

2:23:36

That's fine.

2:23:36

That's fine.

2:23:37

I just want to show his movement.

2:23:38

Look how fast he moves in.

2:23:40

I mean, that guy's so fucking fast.

2:23:43

He moves like a 175-pounder.

2:23:46

He doesn't move like a 250-pound guy.

2:23:48

Look how quickly he closes the distance, man.

2:23:51

His hand speed and full range of skills.

2:23:55

Incredible stand-up.

2:23:57

Knocks guys out with one punch.

2:23:58

Black belt in jiu-jitsu.

2:24:00

Really good wrestler.

2:24:01

His everything.

2:24:03

And he's young.

2:24:03

So, what's your prediction if it happens?

2:24:06

It's hard to bet against John.

2:24:08

It's hard to bet against John.

2:24:10

But John's not a real heavyweight.

2:24:11

John could make light heavyweight, 100%.

2:24:14

He weights 230 right now, maybe a little less than 230.

2:24:17

There's no doubt in my mind that if John just changed his diet and went back,

2:24:21

he hasn't put

2:24:22

that much mass on, that you would say 205 is out of reach.

2:24:25

No, it's a fluffy weight.

2:24:28

Yeah.

2:24:28

A lot of it, too.

2:24:29

Yeah.

2:24:29

I mean, look, he had always had the reputation of fucking all the heavyweights

2:24:34

up at Jackson

2:24:34

Winklejohn.

2:24:35

Always.

2:24:36

Everybody said, like, when Brendan went down and trained with him, Brendan was

2:24:39

a heavyweight.

2:24:39

Brendan Shaw.

2:24:40

He's like, he fucked me up.

2:24:42

He goes, dude, I was like top 10 in the world as a heavyweight.

2:24:44

I thought I was the shit.

2:24:45

He fucked me up.

2:24:46

He goes, he beat my ass.

2:24:48

And he goes, he beat everybody else's ass, too.

2:24:50

All the other heavyweights, ragdolled dudes way bigger than him.

2:24:53

He's just a freak.

2:24:54

His wingspan is, like, how much longer than his height, though, too?

2:25:00

It's crazy.

2:25:00

Yeah, it's insane.

2:25:01

Crazy reach and also just skillful.

2:25:03

His skills are so rock solid in every way, shape, or form.

2:25:08

His stand-up, his submissions, he's crazy strong.

2:25:11

He's got just an insane mind for fighting.

2:25:15

And would he blow out Pereira, you think, where it's not even a worthwhile?

2:25:20

The problem is the ground.

2:25:22

John's so much better on the ground.

2:25:24

Like, world's better.

2:25:25

And it takes so long to get really good on the ground.

2:25:28

And we've seen Pereira get in trouble with guys on the ground that are nowhere

2:25:32

near John's level.

2:25:33

Nowhere near.

2:25:34

John dominates everybody.

2:25:36

He took down Daniel Cormier.

2:25:38

Daniel Cormier's an Olympic wrestler.

2:25:40

I mean, he's a fucking phenomenal wrestler.

2:25:43

And John took him down.

2:25:44

And took him down multiple times.

2:25:46

He's a different dude, man.

2:25:48

This is what we're talking about, like, with genetics, right?

2:25:51

There's some guys, they're just blessed.

2:25:53

And then with John, it's blessed and his mind.

2:25:57

It's not just, it's his personality.

2:25:59

His, like, ruthless competitiveness.

2:26:02

It's like, he's not going to fucking lose.

2:26:04

He's going to find a way to get you.

2:26:06

And he's going to do it clever.

2:26:07

He's not trying to take a bunch of punishment and stand and bang.

2:26:11

He's not going to point the center of the octagon.

2:26:12

Let's go right here.

2:26:13

We'll stand right here.

2:26:14

Never going to happen with John Jones.

2:26:16

You're not getting none of that, son.

2:26:18

You're getting knees to the gut.

2:26:19

You're getting your knees kicked.

2:26:21

You're getting fucking just laced up with elbows where your fucking head's

2:26:25

bleeding.

2:26:26

He's going to slowly dismantle you and find a way to submit you or punish you,

2:26:31

beat you to death on the ground.

2:26:32

But can he do that with a guy like Aspinall, who's a legit 255-pound natural,

2:26:40

who moves like he's 80 pounds lighter?

2:26:42

He's a freak, man.

2:26:44

Aspinall's a freak.

2:26:46

Like, I've seen a lot of heavyweight, even Francis, who's like the greatest,

2:26:50

scariest power striker I've ever seen in the heavyweight division.

2:26:53

No one's scarier than Francis.

2:26:55

Francis does not move like Tom Aspinall.

2:26:57

Tom Aspinall is significantly faster than every other heavyweight.

2:27:02

That's a real problem.

2:27:03

That's a real problem.

2:27:04

But John has been used to fighting guys like Alexander Gustafson, guys who are

2:27:09

really fast at light heavyweight.

2:27:12

So the speed is not going to be as much of an adjustment.

2:27:15

Like, John's used to really fast people.

2:27:17

He fought Lyoto Machida when Machida was in his prime.

2:27:20

Machida was a lightning bolt, man.

2:27:23

And he caught John a bunch of times.

2:27:25

But then there's the thing of getting caught by Lyoto Machida is not like

2:27:29

getting caught by 255-pound Tom Aspinall.

2:27:31

It's pretty crazy being at the top of the sport for, like, two eras,

2:27:36

essentially.

2:27:37

There's no one like him.

2:27:38

Yeah, like when I was, like, a fucking teenager watching UFC, it was, like, Lyoto

2:27:42

versus him.

2:27:43

You have, like, Mauricio Shogun-Hua fights.

2:27:45

He's 14 years at the top.

2:27:49

Yeah.

2:27:49

14 years.

2:27:51

And they're debating whether or not he's the pound-for-pound best fighter alive

2:27:55

right now.

2:27:56

Islam Makachev currently holds that standing.

2:27:59

And I think that is voted amongst experts.

2:28:02

I think that's what it, you know, air quotes, experts, some of these guys don't

2:28:05

know jack shit.

2:28:06

There's guys who vote on this that literally have never rolled a day in their

2:28:09

life.

2:28:09

And that's a fact.

2:28:10

The meme's pretty funny, though, where it's, like, every time Dana says John

2:28:15

Jones is the best.

2:28:16

And they'll put it in front of, like, it'll be, like, I don't know, some obscene

2:28:20

scenario.

2:28:21

It'll be, like, somebody getting a terminal illness diagnosis or something.

2:28:24

And then Dana White comes in.

2:28:25

He's, like, but John Jones is the best fucking fighter of all time.

2:28:29

I want to make sure that what I said was accurate.

2:28:31

Like, who does get to decide what the pound-for-pound list is?

2:28:35

I believe it's MMA journalists and experts.

2:28:38

Now, there's MMA journalists that I know that are really nice guys.

2:28:42

And I don't want to say any names.

2:28:43

But I know they never worked out a fucking day in their life.

2:28:45

And they love the sport.

2:28:46

And they cover it fairly.

2:28:47

And they're very knowledgeable.

2:28:49

And they're very good at reciting stats and understanding things.

2:28:52

But how much do you really know?

2:28:54

Ratings were generated by a voting panel made up of media members.

2:28:58

See, that's a problem.

2:28:59

Media members were asked to vote on who they feel are the best top fighters in

2:29:03

the UFC by weight class and pound-for-pound.

2:29:06

A fighter is only eligible to be voted on if they are active status in the UFC.

2:29:10

Now, this is not to disparage any of these media people.

2:29:14

Like I said, I love them.

2:29:15

I'm friends with a lot of them.

2:29:16

They're great guys.

2:29:19

There's no way you absolutely understand someone's ability, especially when you're

2:29:24

talking about pound-for-pound, unless you've done martial arts.

2:29:29

I just don't think—I can see—like when John threw that kick, I see that

2:29:33

kick and I go, that was beautiful.

2:29:34

That was beautiful.

2:29:35

Because I know how it kicks—I know what's supposed to happen.

2:29:37

You're just guessing.

2:29:39

You're guessing on what—you've never done that on somebody.

2:29:42

If you've never done that, you don't know how beautiful that is.

2:29:45

You don't really get it.

2:29:47

You kind of get it.

2:29:48

But you get it the way I get flying a plane.

2:29:50

I never fly a plane.

2:29:51

I kind of see they pull the lever.

2:29:53

That guy did a great job flying that plane.

2:29:54

Look how he landed.

2:29:55

Perfect.

2:29:55

I don't know what's really going on.

2:29:57

You know?

2:29:58

But when it comes to martial arts, I know what's really going on.

2:30:01

You know?

2:30:01

And when you look at a guy like John Jones, I don't think you can make a

2:30:06

greatest-of-all-time complete argument.

2:30:09

The way I like to look at it, I say, who had the highest expression of martial

2:30:16

arts excellence during their prime?

2:30:19

Like, what—I don't mean the entire career.

2:30:22

I don't mean now.

2:30:24

I mean, when they were hot, like when Anderson Silva was hot, how good was that?

2:30:30

Was that better than anything that ever existed?

2:30:33

Because I think it might have been.

2:30:34

And that's what I look at when I look at, like, pound for pound best.

2:30:38

So the argument is John Jones has had some really close fights.

2:30:43

He's had, like, split-decision fights that he won.

2:30:46

A lot of people thought that, you know, some of his fights could—like, the

2:30:50

Dominic Reyes fight—

2:30:52

Yeah, dude, that was close.

2:30:53

—could have easily gone to Dominic Reyes.

2:30:55

Yeah.

2:30:55

Easily.

2:30:56

And I would not have been mad at that.

2:30:57

Yeah.

2:30:57

And, you know, I might go back and watch it again and decide Dominic Reyes won

2:31:02

that fight.

2:31:02

But there's those 10-9 rounds that are like, I don't know.

2:31:06

You could say 10-9 John or 10-9 Dominic.

2:31:08

And either way, you've lost the title or you've won the title back.

2:31:11

You know?

2:31:12

Like, it's real weird.

2:31:14

Bakachev is so fucking good.

2:31:17

He's so fucking good that he head-kicked Alexander Volkanovski in the rematch.

2:31:21

He submits everybody.

2:31:23

He submitted Dustin Poirier.

2:31:24

He's a fucking monster.

2:31:26

When he gets guys on the ground, he just crushes them.

2:31:29

And you could argue that he's dealing with a deeper talent pool.

2:31:34

So his weight class is, in my opinion, the most talent-rich weight pool in the

2:31:38

sport, 155 pounds.

2:31:40

155 pounds is filled with assassins.

2:31:44

205 pounds is not.

2:31:46

265 is definitely not.

2:31:49

It's a giant difference.

2:31:51

I feel like it's been a while since those divisions were, like, really heated

2:31:55

with depth.

2:31:56

Which ones?

2:31:57

205?

2:31:58

Light heavy especially.

2:31:59

They used to be, like, the fucking division to watch.

2:32:03

Imagine, though, if Pereira was coming up when Jon Jones was the champion.

2:32:06

That would be exciting.

2:32:08

That would be exciting.

2:32:09

Pereira's a different cat, man.

2:32:11

Did you hear what Mark Goddard said to me in the fight after he fought Khalil

2:32:17

Roundtree?

2:32:18

Mark Goddard came up to me and goes,

2:32:20

Mate, the sound it makes when he hits them is ungodly.

2:32:24

He goes, I've been doing this for 20 years.

2:32:26

He goes, the sound he makes is just different.

2:32:29

It's ungodly.

2:32:30

He just kept saying that.

2:32:32

He wanted to make a point to say this to me.

2:32:33

He came up to me, like, immediately when I got into the octagon.

2:32:36

He's like, the sound is ungodly.

2:32:38

His power is so different.

2:32:41

Do you know, like, Francis hit that punch pad and he got, like, 127 or whatever?

2:32:47

Pereira got 190.

2:32:49

Oh, yeah.

2:32:51

190.

2:32:51

You know how crazy that is?

2:32:54

With a kick, the highest I got was, like, 157.

2:32:57

Some guy got, like, 190 with a kick.

2:33:00

We're pretty impressed.

2:33:01

I think some guy might have broken 200 with a kick.

2:33:04

Some Muay Thai guy.

2:33:05

Pereira did 190 with a punch.

2:33:08

With a punch.

2:33:10

Yeah.

2:33:10

And it was after training.

2:33:12

He just wallops this fucking thing.

2:33:14

And they come out of nowhere.

2:33:15

Like, there's not really a call.

2:33:16

There's no call.

2:33:17

Yeah.

2:33:17

There's no tell.

2:33:19

And he doesn't have to hit you full power.

2:33:21

Because he has so much power, like, those leg kicks that he fucks everybody

2:33:24

with, there's

2:33:25

no turn of the hips at all.

2:33:26

He's just slapping you.

2:33:27

And all of a sudden, you can't walk well.

2:33:29

And then he's, like, marching you down.

2:33:31

And it just takes one shot.

2:33:33

His power is so crazy.

2:33:35

Different than anybody else's.

2:33:37

Because everybody gets hit on the chin.

2:33:39

But when you get hit on the chin by that guy, it's like, you can't get hit.

2:33:42

You get hit.

2:33:43

It's like, everything is just like, you're like, what the fuck?

2:33:47

You can see it in their face.

2:33:49

Yeah, I remember the first time I was here, we were talking about how this guy,

2:33:52

Pereira,

2:33:53

is the only one who's ever beat Adesanya.

2:33:55

And he seems like this fucking assassin.

2:33:57

We were like, oh, that's, you know, interesting timeline.

2:33:59

Didn't know it would transpire into, like, this degree of success where not

2:34:04

only does he

2:34:04

beat him, but then he, like, switches divisions, fucking smokes that division,

2:34:08

too.

2:34:08

It's crazy.

2:34:09

Yeah.

2:34:09

Dominated two divisions.

2:34:11

And the only reason why he didn't stay at light heavyweight, or middleweight,

2:34:13

rather,

2:34:14

he's literally killing himself to get to 185.

2:34:16

Yeah.

2:34:16

And I think that likely contributed to the KO, too.

2:34:20

Like, Adesanya landed a perfect right hand.

2:34:22

That right hand is going to fuck him up every day of the week, no matter what

2:34:26

you weigh.

2:34:27

It's just perfect.

2:34:28

And the timing, the way he did it, like, leaning up against the cage and just

2:34:32

looked for the

2:34:32

opening and just caught him coming in, bang, dropped him, hit him with the left

2:34:36

hook, put

2:34:37

the arrows into him when he's down.

2:34:38

That KO was perfect.

2:34:40

But you got to wonder, like, how much of his inability, like, he went

2:34:43

completely unconscious.

2:34:45

How much of that is because of the drain, the dehydration?

2:34:48

Because we know that the brain takes longer to rehydrate than the muscle tissue.

2:34:52

Yeah.

2:34:53

So, like, they think-

2:34:55

Oh, some impact, for sure.

2:34:56

Yeah.

2:34:56

Yeah.

2:34:56

Fighters always say that it impacts their ability to take a punch.

2:34:59

They talk about it, like, openly.

2:35:00

Like, I took punches better when I went up to 55.

2:35:03

Like, a good example is Oliveira.

2:35:06

Oliveira was, like, notorious for kind of, like, folding at 45.

2:35:09

He goes up to 55 and he becomes unstoppable.

2:35:12

Hmm.

2:35:12

Yeah.

2:35:13

No, it's, uh, I'm surprised he ever sucked out of that to begin with.

2:35:17

I think it's pretty funny.

2:35:18

He's so big that he was getting, making 185 and then fighting at 226.

2:35:23

That's even more aggressive than the Costa cuts, I think.

2:35:28

Yes.

2:35:28

Yeah.

2:35:29

Yeah, it's, he's, I think he's got the most, he had the most aggressive weight

2:35:32

cut.

2:35:33

Now it's pretty marginal.

2:35:34

Now I think he gets into the low 220s, like 222, 222, and then, you know, he

2:35:39

cuts 15.

2:35:39

Not that bad for a big guy with a lot of muscle.

2:35:43

Dude, Costa needs to go back to brawling.

2:35:45

Eh?

2:35:46

He used to be so exciting.

2:35:48

And now it's just kind of, like, has different strategies each time.

2:35:52

And then, I don't know, it just doesn't seem to be working out.

2:35:54

It's hard to know what happens to a guy when he gets really owned.

2:35:58

Yeah.

2:35:58

Because that's the thing.

2:35:59

Oh, you think he's, like, psychologically just, like.

2:36:01

I don't think he's the same guy.

2:36:02

Like, that's the guy who walked down Yoel Romero.

2:36:04

Yeah.

2:36:05

And we're like, oh my God, Yoel Romero met a bigger freak than him.

2:36:08

Because regardless of whether or not you think Costa's juicy, that guy's got

2:36:11

extraordinary genetics.

2:36:13

You know?

2:36:14

I mean, that's why he's such a beautiful man.

2:36:16

Perfect features.

2:36:17

Like, incredible frame.

2:36:18

His frame's incredible.

2:36:20

And whether or not he's juicy, the reality is the guy has insane genetics.

2:36:26

And he was a fucking warrior, especially in that Yoel Romero fight.

2:36:29

Yoel's terrifying to everybody.

2:36:31

And Costa just walked him down and beat his ass.

2:36:34

And that was not a close fight.

2:36:36

It was primarily a stand-up fight.

2:36:38

Which is where Yoel's the most scary.

2:36:40

And Costa was in no danger.

2:36:41

He beat the shit out of Yoel Romero.

2:36:43

But then he fought a guy who's just way more slick.

2:36:46

And Adesanya just was piecing him up in a way where he couldn't respond.

2:36:51

He just, he was making, he was, what he was doing was a very effective strategy

2:36:58

on people

2:36:58

that weren't as skillful as Adesanya.

2:37:00

But that strategy, Adesanya was easily exploiting.

2:37:03

And he was, like, exploiting him with distance and with feints and distant

2:37:06

management and chopping

2:37:08

at the legs.

2:37:08

And just, he had him all fucked up by the end of the first round.

2:37:11

He was realizing, I can't touch this guy.

2:37:13

And he keeps hitting me.

2:37:14

And when he would touch Izzy, Izzy would be rolling with the punches or he'd

2:37:18

block the

2:37:19

kick and just move away from it as he's getting hit.

2:37:22

And then just keep stabbing at him from a distance.

2:37:25

And it was just, he was too good.

2:37:27

That's Izzy in his prime when he was at the top of the food chain.

2:37:30

And at that moment, he fought the best Israel Adesanya that's ever been.

2:37:35

And that's, like, we were talking about, like, how good does a guy compete in

2:37:39

that one step,

2:37:41

this gap of a couple of years or three years where he's just in his prime.

2:37:46

And I think that was what it was.

2:37:48

That was Izzy in his prime, which is one of the greatest fighters of all time,

2:37:51

against Paolo Costa, who just didn't have the answers to that.

2:37:54

And once you've been bested like that and a guy dry humps you when you're down,

2:37:58

he beats your ass, TKO's you, and then humps you.

2:38:01

You're just like, I thought I was the man.

2:38:04

So then he has all these doubts.

2:38:06

And then he goes into the next fights.

2:38:08

He missed weight for one fight and fought at 205.

2:38:12

Remember when he fought, who the fuck did he fight?

2:38:15

God damn it, I can't.

2:38:19

Marvin Vittori.

2:38:20

He fought Marvin Vittori, and they were supposed to be fighting at 185,

2:38:23

and they fought at, like, 205, and he still looked like he was out of shape.

2:38:25

He looked like he's mentally all fucked up from that fight.

2:38:28

Yeah, I can imagine the downward spiral that you would have to try and contend

2:38:33

with as well

2:38:34

after you, like, go from top rank to, I think he's lost, like, three in a row.

2:38:38

It's crazy.

2:38:39

I'd like to see him get back into form, but I don't know if he can anymore.

2:38:43

You know, I don't know if you're psychologically the same guy.

2:38:45

Did you watch CGI?

2:38:49

What is that?

2:38:51

The Craig Jones Invitation.

2:38:52

Oh, yeah.

2:38:53

I was thinking, what does CGI stand for?

2:38:55

Yeah, yeah, I watched it.

2:38:57

Yeah, I watched it.

2:38:58

Yeah.

2:38:59

What did you think?

2:39:00

Well, I think it's great that these guys are getting a lot of money.

2:39:02

I think that's awesome.

2:39:04

I think it's kind of crazy they decided to compete against Abu Dhabi on the

2:39:07

same weekend.

2:39:08

I thought that was kind of nuts.

2:39:09

But I guess if you want to be controversial, and Craig is certainly

2:39:12

controversial, and you

2:39:13

want to get a lot of attention, it got a lot of attention.

2:39:16

Yeah.

2:39:17

And then, of course, the money.

2:39:18

I mean, he came into the studio with $3 million in cash.

2:39:20

Was it three?

2:39:21

Yeah, wasn't it?

2:39:22

One.

2:39:23

It was $1 million?

2:39:23

Yeah.

2:39:24

Oh, it was $1 million.

2:39:24

Okay.

2:39:24

But even that.

2:39:25

But they gave out $3 billion, right?

2:39:27

So three different divisions got $1 million.

2:39:29

So he brought in $1 million in a duffel bag, which I've never seen that before.

2:39:34

I've never seen $1 million.

2:39:35

It's crazy to look at.

2:39:36

No, yeah, it's not easy to get.

2:39:38

You know, it's fun.

2:39:40

Craig's fun.

2:39:41

He's a funny guy.

2:39:42

He's fucking hilarious.

2:39:43

He's the most hilarious guy in jiu-jitsu.

2:39:44

Yeah.

2:39:45

He's, like, really silly.

2:39:46

He's very self-deprecating.

2:39:48

And he's super skillful.

2:39:50

I mean, his jiu-jitsu is, like, second best in the world.

2:39:52

Like, he always talks about it.

2:39:54

Let's wait.

2:39:54

He named his team the B team.

2:39:56

Yeah.

2:39:56

He's not going to beat Gordon.

2:39:57

You know, Gordon is a freak.

2:40:00

And Gordon is, like, a real psychopath.

2:40:02

Like, Gordon trains every day of the week.

2:40:04

Gordon versus Nicky Rod, who wins?

2:40:06

Gordon.

2:40:07

No question?

2:40:08

Yeah, Gordon's better.

2:40:09

He's just better.

2:40:10

Nicky Rod might get to Gordon's level one day.

2:40:12

I mean, but if they're not training together, I don't know if he will.

2:40:15

You know?

2:40:16

I don't know if he's training with—look, he's beat him every time they faced

2:40:20

him.

2:40:20

Yeah.

2:40:20

And Nicky did catch him in a footlock, but Gordon's like, God, break my foot.

2:40:24

I'm still going to win.

2:40:25

Yeah.

2:40:26

And he submitted him easily in Abu Dhabi.

2:40:28

And when they had their second match, you know, Gordon was alleging he was

2:40:34

greasy.

2:40:35

Like, he was difficult to get a hold of.

2:40:36

And that's been something that people have said about Nicky before.

2:40:39

But it might be toily food.

2:40:41

I don't know.

2:40:41

Yeah.

2:40:42

I don't know.

2:40:43

I don't know what's going on.

2:40:44

But I know guys did that.

2:40:45

I know guys would take baths.

2:40:47

This was in the early days, like the pride days.

2:40:49

They would lay in a bathtub filled with baby oil.

2:40:53

So they would lay in this bathtub with water and, like, fucking gallons of,

2:40:58

like, P. Diddy-style

2:40:59

P. Diddy-style fucking, like, just supplies of baby oil in that water.

2:41:08

And they'd bathe in it.

2:41:08

Then they would wash themselves off, dry themselves off.

2:41:11

And then to the touch, their skin would not feel like oil at all until they

2:41:15

started sweating.

2:41:17

And then when they started sweating, they would be like a fish.

2:41:19

Just whoosh.

2:41:19

You just couldn't grab them.

2:41:20

Oh, my God.

2:41:21

Yeah.

2:41:21

That was the thing that it was alleged that certain strikers from Brazil used

2:41:26

to do before

2:41:27

they fought.

2:41:27

And guys just could not get a hold of them.

2:41:30

They would just be so slippery.

2:41:31

You couldn't take them down.

2:41:32

If you take them down, you couldn't hold them down.

2:41:34

You just, like, just slip right out of your hands like a bar of soap.

2:41:36

And how would you avoid?

2:41:38

Do they screen for that somehow in the UFC?

2:41:41

Or, like, how does that work?

2:41:42

The problem is, what I'm saying, that you could oil your skin up and then wash

2:41:46

it.

2:41:46

And they would still be in your pores.

2:41:48

And you wouldn't even be able to detect.

2:41:50

As long as you were dry, they would rub you with, like, a cloth or something.

2:41:54

Like, nope, there's nothing on his skin.

2:41:55

Like, unless they have, like, baby oil detection wipes that you then send to a

2:42:01

laboratory to find

2:42:03

if this person put baby oil on.

2:42:05

So are you never allowed to put baby oil on?

2:42:07

Or are you only allowed to put baby oil on until the week of the fight?

2:42:11

Like, when are you going to say no baby oil ever for a person?

2:42:15

What if they like baby oil?

2:42:16

What if they like cocoa butter?

2:42:18

So it's weird.

2:42:20

It's weird.

2:42:22

And so the solution to that is everybody has to wear long-sleeve rash guards

2:42:27

and spats.

2:42:28

That's the solution.

2:42:29

And that's what they should do.

2:42:31

So the best way to stop these greasers is you put them in leggings.

2:42:35

Leggings and tights.

2:42:37

Simple.

2:42:38

Yeah, I remember that was, like, a bit of a controversy, at least in early UFC.

2:42:42

It was, like...

2:42:43

Oh, yeah.

2:42:43

Yeah.

2:42:44

I know guys greased.

2:42:45

100%.

2:42:46

I can tell you 100% guys greased.

2:42:49

Even, like, between rounds, though, too.

2:42:51

I know one guy who didn't just grease.

2:42:53

He put Vic's VapoRub all over his chest.

2:42:56

Jesus.

2:42:57

And then he would grab guys and pull their head into his chest.

2:43:01

So you'd be getting sweat and Vic's VapoRub in your eyes.

2:43:05

And he'd be kneeing you in the face.

2:43:07

That's fucking crazy, dude.

2:43:08

Crazy.

2:43:09

Yeah.

2:43:09

Well, when they weren't testing for things, dudes did a lot of dirty shit.

2:43:13

Yeah.

2:43:13

I heard another story.

2:43:14

I can't substantiate.

2:43:15

I will say no names.

2:43:16

But a guy allegedly gave blood to make weight.

2:43:22

So he didn't give blood, but had blood removed from his body and chilled in his

2:43:27

room so that

2:43:28

he can make weight.

2:43:29

And then went back up to his room and got that blood put back in his body after

2:43:33

his

2:43:34

body had probably, you know, resupplied itself with a significant amount of it,

2:43:38

depending

2:43:38

on how much time it is between the fact that they withdraw the blood.

2:43:41

I don't know how much time.

2:43:42

But you could think about, like, how much weight blood is.

2:43:45

Yeah.

2:43:46

And if you can get, like, you know, how much can you take while you're still

2:43:48

conscious?

2:43:49

I don't know.

2:43:50

But you take these bags of blood and keep them chilled and then let your body

2:43:56

refill and

2:43:57

re-proliferate with blood and then go back into the room and now you're blood

2:44:01

doping with

2:44:02

your own blood.

2:44:02

Yeah.

2:44:03

Totally undetectable.

2:44:04

And you made weight with blood cutting.

2:44:05

Yeah.

2:44:06

And that's, like, another micro-dose vector that people use still to this day.

2:44:12

Blood doping.

2:44:12

It all gets blood transfusions.

2:44:13

Well, that's when there's probably multiple factors where you're not allowed to

2:44:17

get IVs

2:44:18

and that might be one of them, you know?

2:44:19

Yeah.

2:44:19

But it's, like, detecting that is always just through your data that they have

2:44:23

to assess or

2:44:24

they assess for, like, plastics in your bloodstream, which you can get around

2:44:28

just by storage technique.

2:44:29

Right.

2:44:30

Plastics in your bloodstream, would you get around that if you injected it with

2:44:36

a glass

2:44:37

vial and a needle as opposed to, like, a bag?

2:44:41

Some people are, like, freezing as opposed to just, like, storing it in liquid

2:44:45

format and

2:44:46

then whatever you're storing it in, it can all make a difference in terms of,

2:44:49

like...

2:44:49

Freezing it?

2:44:50

Yeah.

2:44:50

You can freeze your blood and then put it back in?

2:44:53

Yeah.

2:44:53

Whoa.

2:44:54

Yeah.

2:44:55

Like, thawed out, obviously.

2:44:56

But how weird is that?

2:44:57

Super weird.

2:44:58

How long is your blood good for?

2:45:00

That's a good question.

2:45:01

But I would imagine longer if you're freezing it.

2:45:05

Jesus Christ.

2:45:06

The things people do just to get a little bit of an advantage.

2:45:09

Yeah.

2:45:10

But it works, man.

2:45:11

Like, that's...

2:45:12

Yeah.

2:45:12

Yeah.

2:45:13

And it's, like, at least of the doping methods, like, one of the least easy to

2:45:18

detect because

2:45:19

there's no, like, substance that is stimulating anything.

2:45:21

It's just your own blood that was supposed to be there.

2:45:24

Right.

2:45:24

So the only way they'd be able to detect is to detect whether or not you've had

2:45:27

an IV.

2:45:29

Yeah.

2:45:29

Well, it would be, like, they'd look at your biological passport data and see

2:45:34

unusual elevation

2:45:36

of hemoglobin, hematocrit, probably around an event.

2:45:40

And you would also see a disproportionate suppression of reticulocytes, which

2:45:44

are, like, immature red

2:45:46

blood cells.

2:45:46

Because if your body has, similar to the testosterone, if you administer it,

2:45:50

you stop producing naturally.

2:45:52

So if you put in exogenous blood, you're going to suppress the natural

2:45:56

production of red blood

2:45:58

cells because you have an adequate supply.

2:45:59

Right.

2:46:00

So you would have a disproportionate ratio between, like, blood cells, oxygen

2:46:05

care and capacity

2:46:06

markers, and immature blood cells.

2:46:08

And it's, like, why is this differential so significant all of a sudden?

2:46:12

Right.

2:46:12

And it might flag an atypical finding and get further scrutiny.

2:46:16

And, yeah, with blood transfusions, because there's no way to really prove

2:46:20

anything, oftentimes

2:46:22

penalizations occur based on, like, it looks so fucked up that we have to penalize

2:46:27

you because

2:46:28

we assumed you did it.

2:46:29

Like, how would they detect that?

2:46:31

Like, I think it's just such an aberrant finding that's different from

2:46:34

everything you've

2:46:35

ever showed in your data that you must have cheated.

2:46:37

Oh.

2:46:39

Yeah.

2:46:39

Right.

2:46:39

So the biological passport.

2:46:41

Yeah, because it's, like, with other compounds, like testosterone, you need to

2:46:44

have, like,

2:46:44

confirmation via isotope ratio, mass spec, or whatever.

2:46:49

But with blood, it's, like, what did you do?

2:46:52

Like, there's no compound to prove was or wasn't there.

2:46:55

It's just, like, the blood.

2:46:56

But it is illegal, right?

2:46:58

So you'd have to have a nurse that can keep their mouth shut.

2:47:00

Or a significant other who is a nurse or a myriad of different things.

2:47:06

Right.

2:47:06

Yeah.

2:47:07

Right, right, right.

2:47:08

And some of this stuff isn't, like, hard to really learn either.

2:47:12

Like, it's actually a pretty good profession is learning how to take, like,

2:47:15

some people do

2:47:17

phlebotomy as, like, a low barrier to entry, high paying job.

2:47:23

So, like, being somebody who takes blood is, like, there's not much of a

2:47:28

requirement from,

2:47:30

like, credentials to be able to do it.

2:47:31

And it pays well per hour.

2:47:32

Mm.

2:47:33

Yeah.

2:47:34

And if you had a family member who's a phlebotomist and they could hook that up.

2:47:37

Yeah.

2:47:38

Yeah.

2:47:38

Yeah.

2:47:39

What are the other different ways that they can get it?

2:47:42

Like, how rock solid is, like, let's forget about drug sport, what they have

2:47:47

now, but the

2:47:47

USADA protocol that they were using before, what are the best ways to get

2:47:52

around that?

2:47:52

Well, because they weren't actually testing almost at all for EPO and GH.

2:48:00

Like, what percentage were they testing for it?

2:48:02

You'd probably have to ask Hunter to confirm, but my understanding was, like,

2:48:07

best case scenario,

2:48:08

you were getting EPO tested if somebody, like, reported you as, like, you know,

2:48:14

there's a bunch

2:48:15

of people trying to out you as a cheater.

2:48:16

And again, is this a finance thing?

2:48:18

Is this a...

2:48:19

Oh, I think it was a lot finance and time intensive.

2:48:23

And because some of this testing is not as rudimentary and crude as, like, you

2:48:27

know, just detection

2:48:29

of synthetic steroids in your urine.

2:48:30

You have to actually, like, manually do work to, like, combust down and assess

2:48:35

the ratio.

2:48:36

And there's, like, nuance in interpreting this stuff, too.

2:48:38

Because a lot of times you will have an expert who has a different opinion than

2:48:42

another expert

2:48:43

in terms of if it looks weird.

2:48:45

Right.

2:48:46

So you have to, like, bring in multiple opinions, too, maybe, of experts who

2:48:49

then kind of come

2:48:50

to a consolidated answer on, did you cheat or not?

2:48:54

Oh, wow.

2:48:54

And it gets pretty complicated.

2:48:55

So doing this at scale on a sport that has no off-season with people globally

2:49:02

competing,

2:49:03

like, pretty fucking costly, for sure, to do properly.

2:49:07

Well, the MMA conspiracy theorists, they always point to, like, people doing

2:49:11

their camps in,

2:49:11

like, faraway lanes.

2:49:13

Like, what a good way to cheat.

2:49:14

You know, because if you want to do a camp in Dagestan, like, how many times is

2:49:19

USADA going

2:49:20

to Dagestan?

2:49:21

Yeah.

2:49:21

And what happens to those guys when they get over there and they get smacked up

2:49:24

by those

2:49:24

bearded dudes?

2:49:25

Yeah.

2:49:26

Imagine telling those guys, wake up at 6 o'clock in the morning.

2:49:30

Yeah.

2:49:31

They'll feed you their goats.

2:49:32

Yeah.

2:49:32

Like, what are you talking about?

2:49:33

Fuck you.

2:49:34

Come back tomorrow.

2:49:34

Yeah, fuck you.

2:49:35

Yeah.

2:49:36

No, it's, uh...

2:49:37

Also, they probably know when you're there.

2:49:39

Yeah, like...

2:49:40

They probably got that town wired.

2:49:41

There's absolutely logistical problems that lead to lower barriers for certain

2:49:47

people.

2:49:47

Yeah.

2:49:48

Yeah.

2:49:49

Yeah, like, do you camp in Thailand, son?

2:49:51

Yeah, for sure.

2:49:53

You gotta wonder.

2:49:54

Like, I would like to see, like, what's the data on people that do their camp

2:49:58

in Thailand?

2:49:59

How often are they tested versus a guy who's got a camp in Iowa?

2:50:02

And even, like, the rigor of the person who's hired to do the testing.

2:50:08

Because it's, like, how, you know, scrutinous is whoever you're outsourcing,

2:50:13

you're hiring in that area to.

2:50:15

Like, you know, they could be, like, a local who is, you know, like, pledged

2:50:19

allegiance to that fucking, you know, whatever.

2:50:23

So, I don't know, man.

2:50:24

It's tough for sure because there's no way to, like, truly bulletproof it, I

2:50:28

think.

2:50:28

But at least the UFC developments as of recent they've confirmed they're doing,

2:50:33

like, isotope ratio mass spec and actually doing some of the higher level

2:50:37

testing for bioidenticals that could catch the microdosing and the things that

2:50:42

are very difficult to detect.

2:50:45

Stuff is still going to squeeze through for sure, but it's going to be better

2:50:49

than it was where they were either not doing it or then letting people do it

2:50:52

maybe and then asking them to be fucking snitches for them.

2:50:56

It used to be back in the day that there was always rumors of, like, big camps

2:51:02

that would hire scientists and that, you know, they would figure out ways

2:51:08

around.

2:51:09

Dude, that is a growing profession.

2:51:12

Is it?

2:51:12

Oh, yeah.

2:51:14

Yeah, there's, like, so many pharmacology nerds who are, like, like, I've even

2:51:17

been asked to help people in the Olympics before.

2:51:20

Really?

2:51:20

Yeah.

2:51:21

Wow.

2:51:22

Because you're a pharmacological nerd.

2:51:24

Yeah.

2:51:24

Exactly.

2:51:25

And so these people ask you to cheat for them?

2:51:29

To help them cheat, yeah.

2:51:31

Which is also a criminal offense, my understanding, due to – there's actually

2:51:34

a law now.

2:51:35

It's, like, the Rod Chankov Act or something.

2:51:37

Oh, wow.

2:51:38

So if you, like, help somebody, you're also doing a crime.

2:51:42

Oh, wow.

2:51:44

Yeah.

2:51:45

Oh.

2:51:45

So, you know, obviously not worth doing for me.

2:51:49

Obviously.

2:51:49

So I never did it, but –

2:51:50

Well, especially something like the Olympics.

2:51:52

Like, there's no money in it.

2:51:53

Yeah.

2:51:54

You're not making any money.

2:51:54

Which is crazy.

2:51:56

Yeah.

2:51:56

Crazy.

2:51:57

It's, like, pure pride for winning a medal.

2:52:00

It's pure exploitation.

2:52:01

That's what it is.

2:52:02

That's true.

2:52:03

Because it's not like there's no money.

2:52:04

Like, why are you making all the money?

2:52:05

Well, these people are noble.

2:52:06

They don't want to get paid.

2:52:07

Like, no, you're just not paying them.

2:52:08

They don't even know how much money there was.

2:52:10

Because in 1936, there was no money, right?

2:52:12

Yeah.

2:52:13

There was no sponsors.

2:52:13

There was no nothing.

2:52:15

Yeah, I remember.

2:52:15

There was no TV.

2:52:16

Yeah, let's see.

2:52:17

Okay.

2:52:18

The bill makes it unlawful to knowingly influence or attempt to conspire to

2:52:22

influence a major international sports competition by use of prohibited

2:52:25

substance or prohibited method.

2:52:26

A violator is subject to criminal penalties, a fine, prison term of up to 10

2:52:31

years, or both, and mandatory restitution.

2:52:34

Huh.

2:52:35

Yeah.

2:52:36

Interesting.

2:52:37

Yeah, there's definitely – and when you hear about stuff like this, too, it's,

2:52:42

like, there's always the thought in the back of your mind,

2:52:44

as a competitor, what are people doing that I'm not?

2:52:47

And curiosity strikes.

2:52:49

What do you think is the answer?

2:52:51

What's, like, the non-ideological – when you look at it objectively, you say,

2:52:57

you know what?

2:52:57

What we should be doing is doing everything that works.

2:53:00

Or what we should be doing is have the most insane testing that everybody has

2:53:04

to be 100% natural, no ifs, ands, or buts, and there's no cheating.

2:53:08

That's really hard because I, too, have the same questions you had of the

2:53:12

enhanced games where it's, like, oh,

2:53:14

we're going to have, you know, medical assessments that ensure safety and blah,

2:53:18

blah, blah.

2:53:19

But it's, like, if you're going full board, it's impossible to be healthy.

2:53:23

Insane.

2:53:24

Yeah.

2:53:25

Yeah.

2:53:25

So, like, as much as you could argue it's probably better to not be using

2:53:29

Frankenstein designer drugs or doing weird methods to get around cheating, the

2:53:37

alternative is not necessarily, like, far superior in terms of health.

2:53:39

Because if I'm allowed to use a gram of test, you know, like, I'm not going to

2:53:43

stop at 200 migs, you know?

2:53:45

Right.

2:53:45

Like, I'm going to go full fucking sauce to the tit, so.

2:53:48

Yeah.

2:53:48

If you can get a physiological benefit of being on trend and just fucking

2:53:53

completely roid it out of your mind.

2:53:55

Yeah, become, like, a fucking dopaminergic psycho and just, like, you know, you

2:53:59

will absolutely take that risk regardless of what it does to you.

2:54:03

Yeah.

2:54:03

Especially if you're trying to win, right?

2:54:05

If people are willing to cheat when it's really dangerous, you could lose the

2:54:08

medal and you can get outed and publicly shamed like Ben Johnson.

2:54:12

Or you don't have to worry about that because they're allowing you to, but they

2:54:16

would like you to take, like, a sustainable dose.

2:54:19

And you're like, fuck you with your sustainable.

2:54:21

I'm trying to be number one, bitch.

2:54:22

Yeah.

2:54:23

Give me it all.

2:54:23

I love the idea of the enhanced games, by the way, but it's like, at least my

2:54:28

concern would be what happens when you put up no guardrails.

2:54:32

And then, alternatively, if there are guardrails, now it's set up for

2:54:36

corruption at the medical provider level who's assessing what you're healthy

2:54:40

enough to do.

2:54:42

And, like, you know, are you going in to get your blood drawn at the trough

2:54:45

point after injections where things look like they're half out of your system

2:54:49

versus before?

2:54:50

Like, it's almost like a new level of doping that would be introduced.

2:54:54

Right, right, right.

2:54:55

So, and I'm sure they're very well-spoken, eloquent guys who are on top of that

2:55:00

stuff and I'm sure have answers to that or, you know, have some idea of what

2:55:05

they're going to do.

2:55:07

But, like, those would be my questions as to, and I'm not saying it needs to be

2:55:11

safe.

2:55:12

Right.

2:55:12

You know, it might just come down to accepting that this is the fucking

2:55:16

chemical warfare games.

2:55:17

Right.

2:55:18

Yeah.

2:55:18

Which, there's nothing wrong with that if you're going to expose yourself to

2:55:21

that risk.

2:55:21

People do that in bodybuilding all the time.

2:55:23

That's, like, literally what bodybuilding is.

2:55:24

Yeah.

2:55:25

Yeah.

2:55:25

That's what's crazy, right?

2:55:27

Bodybuilding's a huge sport.

2:55:28

It's not possible without illegal drugs.

2:55:30

And there's no Rod Chankov act for bodybuilding either.

2:55:33

So there's, like, literal, the guru stuff is crazy in bodybuilding.

2:55:38

Well, how do they get away with it since it's completely illegal?

2:55:41

Well, I mean, like, obviously you're going to jail.

2:55:44

If I'm a guy who's arresting people who are on steroids, I go to Mr. Olympia.

2:55:49

I'm like, you're all in jail.

2:55:50

Yeah.

2:55:50

Right?

2:55:52

You'd think if you wanted to just, like, hit your quota for the year, you'd

2:55:54

just show up to the Olympia Expo and just be like, all of you, get in the

2:55:58

fucking car.

2:55:59

Get in the paddy wagon.

2:56:00

Yeah.

2:56:00

Yeah.

2:56:01

I don't know, man.

2:56:02

That's, uh...

2:56:02

How'd you get it?

2:56:03

When it comes to possession in the States and, like, how scrutinous they are on

2:56:08

anabolics, I think it's mostly if you're importing mass amounts, they will flag

2:56:12

you.

2:56:13

Because you're likely a distributor at that point.

2:56:15

Okay.

2:56:15

So if it's, like, personal amounts, typically you would buy it domestically to

2:56:20

not, like, red flag yourself.

2:56:22

Because I think in the mail, you can't even have your mail get checked if it's

2:56:26

domestic.

2:56:27

So if you are buying from, you know, the other side of the country, no one

2:56:31

would know that you were sent anything.

2:56:34

It's only if you're buying, like, growth hormone from China or something.

2:56:38

Oh.

2:56:38

And then you get flagged.

2:56:40

And you have enough kits that happen to get flagged in customs, and they keep a

2:56:44

note on your record of this guy might be doing something.

2:56:47

So he might be a steroid dealer.

2:56:48

Yeah.

2:56:49

And then they'll have sting operations and try and figure out who's actually

2:56:51

distributing.

2:56:52

Because they have resource allocation bandwidth problems, too.

2:56:56

So they have to go after the big fish.

2:56:57

Right.

2:56:58

Do guys go to Mexico and bring them across the border?

2:57:01

Not anymore.

2:57:01

No, they used to?

2:57:02

Oh, yeah, back in the day.

2:57:04

Yeah, people would, like, smuggle it up their ass to get it here.

2:57:06

Jesus Christ.

2:57:08

Imagine taking Trent that was in a guy's asshole.

2:57:11

Yeah.

2:57:11

Dan Bilzerian used to, he talked about how when he was in Buds, he would, like,

2:57:17

go with his buddies to get.

2:57:19

Gear from Mexico, and then they'd smuggle it up their asses back into the U.S.

2:57:24

Jesus Christ.

2:57:24

What if the bottle broke?

2:57:26

Fucking.

2:57:27

Yikes.

2:57:28

Butthole glass cuts, buddy.

2:57:30

I watched that in a video.

2:57:31

It's called One Guy, One Cup.

2:57:33

Oh, yeah?

2:57:33

You ever seen that one?

2:57:34

No.

2:57:35

That was back in a lively day.

2:57:36

I saw the OG variant of that, and never would I, I can't watch another one of

2:57:40

those.

2:57:40

One Guy, One Cup is way more horrifying.

2:57:42

Really?

2:57:43

This guy sticks a mason jar up his asshole, and it breaks.

2:57:45

I think it's a mason jar.

2:57:47

Some kind of a jar up his asshole, and it breaks, and it's just, chunks of

2:57:51

broken glass and blood fall onto the ground as they squat.

2:57:54

It's horrible.

2:57:55

But I watched it multiple times.

2:57:57

Goddamn.

2:57:59

There's a lot of crazy people in this world.

2:58:00

Yeah.

2:58:01

Do you think that, I'm of the opinion.

2:58:04

Let me just say what I think.

2:58:05

I think that most substances should be legal, and I think people should be able

2:58:09

to figure out what's good and what's bad.

2:58:12

There's a lot of things that are legal.

2:58:13

Adderall's legal.

2:58:14

I don't take Adderall.

2:58:15

I'm 99% sure I have ADHD.

2:58:18

I don't even know what it is.

2:58:20

I don't even know if it's real.

2:58:21

I think it's probably a superpower.

2:58:22

But if I went to a doctor, and I was complaining about I can't focus on any one

2:58:26

thing, I'm all over the place,

2:58:28

they'd probably give me some.

2:58:29

And that would have legal stimulants.

2:58:31

I don't think, probably think it's not good for you, so I don't take it.

2:58:35

But I could, right?

2:58:37

Why is that legal and cocaine's not?

2:58:39

Like, why is this legal and that's not?

2:58:41

Why is whiskey legal and marijuana's not?

2:58:44

This doesn't make any sense to me.

2:58:45

Why is Xanax legal, psilocybin's not?

2:58:48

Like, what are we doing?

2:58:49

Who gets to decide?

2:58:50

Well, you could argue that, well, that's the reason why clinical trials exist,

2:58:54

which assess, you know, safety profiles of these drugs, and they wouldn't make

2:58:57

it through otherwise.

2:58:58

But, like, obviously we've seen that that's not.

2:59:00

Once you get financial interest involved, it's kind of hard to overlook that a

2:59:04

lot of shit makes it through that probably shouldn't have.

2:59:07

And stuff that maybe should have made it through didn't make it through.

2:59:10

So, you know, like, I am of the opinion that you should be able to take what

2:59:14

you want and be educated about it, hopefully, first.

2:59:17

It's tough, though, because it's like if you have a guy who's, like, I don't

2:59:22

know, manic, and he has access to, like, meth and, like, pharma-grade meth at

2:59:26

that or something.

2:59:28

Yeah.

2:59:28

Which actually exists, too.

2:59:30

Oh, yeah.

2:59:30

And you end up with, like, a Hitler or something.

2:59:32

Yeah.

2:59:33

Yeah.

2:59:34

Yeah.

2:59:34

The trend thing, is that the worst one psychologically?

2:59:39

From anabolic steroids, I would say probably that, and then maybe secondary,

2:59:44

you know, some people could argue halotestin is a drug that supposedly Mike

2:59:49

Tyson was using when he bit Evander Holyfield's ear off.

2:59:53

Yeah, and it makes you, like, fucking short-term, acutely, extremely angry.

2:59:57

How did you hear that he was using that?

2:59:59

I don't remember exactly.

3:00:01

I think it was, like, he didn't test positive for it.

3:00:03

I think it was just, like, highly rumored, like, a very prevalent rumor.

3:00:07

They probably didn't test for it, though, either, right?

3:00:09

No, it was back then.

3:00:11

It was really easy to get around, like, oral steroid detections back then as

3:00:15

well, if they were even testing for it.

3:00:17

I don't even know if they were testing back then.

3:00:19

Yeah, but trend is the worst offender for your psychological state, not just

3:00:25

because the drug is bad, but it also, like, ruins your sleep.

3:00:30

So you get, like, trend cough I mentioned, but trend sweats is another one

3:00:35

where it almost induces, like, a menopause-like hot flash sweating in your

3:00:39

sleep, and you wake up just fucking drenched.

3:00:42

Jesus Christ.

3:00:43

And it, like, really fucks up your sleep, and it makes you hyperparanoid as

3:00:47

well, which is no good,

3:00:48

because even though you're this jacked, sometimes confident guy, other times

3:00:53

you're, like, you're unreasonably insecure, and you, like, a very common

3:00:57

outcome is for guys to think their girlfriends are cheating on them just out of

3:01:02

nowhere by being on trend.

3:01:04

Really?

3:01:05

Yeah, and they end up becoming, you know, oddly behaving.

3:01:10

Sexual deviancy is also a very common.

3:01:13

I've heard of that.

3:01:14

Yeah, yeah, on trend.

3:01:15

And it's thought to be the progestogenic activity, because it's derived from nandrolone,

3:01:21

which is a progesterone receptor agonist as well.

3:01:24

And progesterone is thought to be very implicated in gay sexual tendencies as

3:01:29

you grow up if you had a heightened exposure to progesterone in utero.

3:01:33

And highly dopaminergic drug as well, which in excess can cause, like, really

3:01:38

weird sexual deviancy as well.

3:01:42

And, yeah, it's, like, really fucking potent and good at what it does.

3:01:45

It builds lean mass, and it's, like, a really dry compound.

3:01:48

It doesn't make you watery.

3:01:49

Also has a unique anti-catabolic effect.

3:01:52

So you don't, in a deficit, you keep muscle and sometimes even grow while you're

3:01:58

cutting.

3:01:59

Whoa.

3:02:00

Yeah, so it's not like steroids don't all do that to some degree, more or less,

3:02:04

but this drug is, like, uniquely potent in its anti-catabolic action to where

3:02:09

you could be, like, extremely nutrient-deprived and still hold on to a lot of

3:02:13

your muscle.

3:02:14

Wow.

3:02:15

And because it's so good at making you extremely strong, too, without an excess

3:02:20

of body weight, it's, like, highly sought after in many sports because you don't

3:02:24

have to worry about jumping up in weight class while you're getting the

3:02:28

strength increase that is, like, humongous.

3:02:31

Wow.

3:02:32

Yeah.

3:02:32

So it was one of the drugs that was used in the Dutchess cocktail, which is

3:02:36

what Rod Chankov would have his athletes swish around in their mouth.

3:02:40

Oh, really?

3:02:41

Yeah, and it was absorbed bucally.

3:02:42

Whoa.

3:02:44

So it was, like, it was almost, like, the equivalent of IVing the drug right

3:02:47

into your bloodstream.

3:02:48

You would swish it around your mouth in this alcohol, and it would absorb bucally

3:02:52

into the bloodstream immediately, so you wouldn't have to actually have it go

3:02:56

into your stomach and then get processed through a first-pass metabolism, so

3:03:00

you could get it in and out of your system way faster.

3:03:03

Wow.

3:03:04

Yeah.

3:03:04

Wow.

3:03:06

So why is that one good for fighters?

3:03:09

I would think that, like, getting super emotional, though.

3:03:13

Yeah, you could argue that the emotional instability is not good.

3:03:16

Yeah.

3:03:16

But it makes you very aggressive.

3:03:18

The psychoactive effects in the gym can be very helpful for training and stress

3:03:25

resilience.

3:03:26

And some people, it's not everyone who becomes paranoid on it.

3:03:29

It's highly individual-dependent.

3:03:31

Some people, you will often hear people say, oh, people overblow the side

3:03:34

effects of training.

3:03:35

It's not that bad.

3:03:36

And then other people who will say it ruined their life.

3:03:38

So it's highly individual-dependent, like any drug.

3:03:41

But it's very good at making you extremely fucking strong without blowing you

3:03:47

up with water retention and staving off loss of tissue while weight-cutting as

3:03:53

well.

3:03:54

There's another factor that comes with steroid users, and that's the addiction

3:03:58

to the feeling of being on steroids.

3:04:00

Yeah.

3:04:01

Because once they get off steroids and they don't feel like Superman anymore,

3:04:04

they get real weirded out.

3:04:05

Yeah.

3:04:06

And they want to get back on again.

3:04:07

I've seen that.

3:04:08

Oh, yeah, dude.

3:04:09

It's the thing that will often kill people is the desire to maintain these huge

3:04:15

sizes in perpetuity, too.

3:04:17

Because ultimately, steroid use often stems from body image insecurity.

3:04:24

So if you achieve the outcome you sought with this thing, to think that you're

3:04:29

going to be a confident person after you've lost the 30, 40 pounds of lean that

3:04:33

you gained.

3:04:34

Right.

3:04:35

You were already probably somewhat mentally not perfect to begin with.

3:04:39

Except Dorian Yates.

3:04:41

Oh, yeah.

3:04:42

That guy, he's a unique cat.

3:04:44

Yeah, he's lost all the way.

3:04:45

He looks like a normal athlete now.

3:04:47

Yeah.

3:04:47

He's healthy.

3:04:48

Yeah, he had me on his podcast this year, and he said anytime he's done

3:04:53

seminars and people ask if he misses being a mass monster, he says they're more

3:04:58

upset about it than I am.

3:04:59

He has a unique perspective on it, which is really cool to see.

3:05:04

He's very intelligent.

3:05:05

Yeah.

3:05:06

Yeah, very calm and, you know, just the way he approaches things.

3:05:09

But, God damn, dude, when that guy was getting after it, he was one of the

3:05:13

original freaks.

3:05:14

Yeah.

3:05:15

One of the first guys where you're just like, what?

3:05:17

Like, that's what they're pushing it to now?

3:05:19

Yeah, he left humanity behind.

3:05:21

He was so big, dude.

3:05:22

He was so big.

3:05:23

He was ridiculous.

3:05:24

If you think about what he looked like versus what Arnold looked like just a

3:05:27

couple of decades earlier.

3:05:29

Oh.

3:05:29

Night and day.

3:05:31

Yeah, you could argue he was like the catalyst almost to a heightened standard

3:05:35

of amount of muscle you need to be competitive.

3:05:38

I mean, he was so big, he blew his bicep out and competed in one with a torn bicep.

3:05:43

Yeah.

3:05:43

Yeah, yeah.

3:05:45

With like a hole in his arm.

3:05:47

Yeah, that's fucked up.

3:05:48

When you get that big and you have to, like, worry about exploding your fucking

3:05:51

muscle every workout because you're so strong and that's what you need to lift

3:05:55

to get the stimulus.

3:05:56

Like, that's crazy stuff.

3:05:57

Well, Ronnie Coleman's the crazy example of the price you pay for that.

3:06:01

Like, that guy's all fucked up now.

3:06:04

Yeah, yeah.

3:06:04

It makes you wonder if he would have been the bodybuilder he was if he just

3:06:08

trained higher volume and, like, used higher reps, less weight.

3:06:13

Yeah.

3:06:14

Because literature now suggests that you don't need to necessarily train like

3:06:17

that.

3:06:17

Look at the difference between the two of them.

3:06:19

Yeah, it's crazy.

3:06:20

Arnold on the left and Dorian on the right.

3:06:21

Dorian's twice his size.

3:06:23

Yeah.

3:06:24

His fucking back, dude.

3:06:25

That's crazy.

3:06:27

That back isn't, not that Arnold isn't insane.

3:06:29

He was pretty insane.

3:06:31

I actually think Arnold looks better.

3:06:33

Yeah, he's more aesthetic for sure.

3:06:35

Oh, look at his back.

3:06:36

Look at Dorian Yates' back and look at Ronnie Coleman's back.

3:06:39

Yeah.

3:06:40

Jesus, guys, we're huge.

3:06:42

Ronnie Coleman was crazy, but Dorian was, like, weirdly thick.

3:06:46

Like, look how thick his fucking muscles are, man.

3:06:49

It's just not.

3:06:50

First of all, judging guys that are that big, good luck.

3:06:53

I don't get it.

3:06:54

They all look awesome.

3:06:55

They all look crazy.

3:06:56

Dude, it's even harder judging a bikini show.

3:07:00

So there's different classes at the Olympia, including women's bikini.

3:07:03

And there's, like, a few poses.

3:07:05

They'll pull up a comparison of the women's Olympia for bikini.

3:07:09

What is the bikini versus regular Olympia?

3:07:12

Well, it's just, like, the best bikini competitors against each other for the

3:07:16

Olympia crown of bikini category.

3:07:20

What's the bikini category versus the regular Miss Olympia category?

3:07:23

Miss Olympia is, like, bodybuilding.

3:07:25

Oh, this isn't bodybuilding?

3:07:26

Well, it's, like, a form of bodybuilding, but it's not the actual category.

3:07:30

Right.

3:07:31

This is women who still look feminine.

3:07:32

So, like, put it this way.

3:07:34

With men, there's different categories.

3:07:36

There's open men's bodybuilding, classic physique, and men's physique.

3:07:41

And each of them has, like, an incremental noticeable difference in the amount

3:07:44

of muscle you need to be competitive.

3:07:46

And in women, similar differences exist in categories where they have women's

3:07:52

bikini, wellness, something else.

3:07:55

And then bodybuilding is the one where you pretty much need to be on, like,

3:07:58

male-level steroids to be competitive.

3:08:01

And this is a reality of female bodybuilding, that a lot of female bodybuilders.

3:08:06

Look, I know female jiu-jitsu competitors that take steroids, which is crazy.

3:08:11

There's not even any money in that.

3:08:12

Yeah.

3:08:13

You're juicing yourself up.

3:08:14

But if you want to get that lean and maintain that much muscle as a woman, like,

3:08:18

what do they take?

3:08:19

Well, for bikini, you might be able to do it naturally, but most of them are

3:08:22

probably still taking a little bit something.

3:08:24

But it's not, like, masculinizing.

3:08:26

There's a lot of things they can take that are natural or over-the-counter or,

3:08:30

like, super micro-dosed amounts of anabolics that don't cause masculinization.

3:08:35

But above that, the thresholds for categories above that are, like, if you go

3:08:40

to women's bodybuilding, like, it looks like you remember it.

3:08:43

Where it's, you know, dudes with wigs on, basically, almost.

3:08:47

Yeah.

3:08:48

I mean, they're trans men, basically.

3:08:50

Basically, yeah.

3:08:51

Like, based on their hormone profile, they are more male than you and I,

3:08:56

probably.

3:08:57

Whoa.

3:08:57

God.

3:08:58

Look at that lady.

3:08:59

That's crazy.

3:09:00

Is she Miss Olympia?

3:09:02

Yeah.

3:09:02

Is she number one?

3:09:04

That's women's physique, too.

3:09:05

That's not women's bodybuilding.

3:09:06

What?

3:09:07

Yeah.

3:09:08

So, this is, like, a different category that's less muscle than bodybuilding.

3:09:10

So, what's women's bodybuilding?

3:09:17

That lady?

3:09:18

Probably.

3:09:19

Who's Miss Olympia?

3:09:20

Do they still have women's bodybuilding?

3:09:23

I think they do.

3:09:29

Hmm.

3:09:29

Yeah, that might be it.

3:09:30

Look at that lady down in the lower left hand.

3:09:32

Jeez, those ladies are huge.

3:09:33

Oh, my goodness.

3:09:34

That's got to be it.

3:09:35

Those are dudes.

3:09:36

That's a dude's body.

3:09:38

Like, size-wise.

3:09:40

Yeah.

3:09:40

I'm not saying you're a dude, ladies.

3:09:42

Yeah.

3:09:42

Don't hurt me.

3:09:43

Yeah, by the way, it's, you know, more power to anybody who wants to do

3:09:45

whatever they want.

3:09:46

It's just, like, the reality of the exposure to these hormones is they are

3:09:50

masculinizing, and you can blame Biden for that.

3:09:54

Wow.

3:09:55

Yeah, because he's stopped the development of them, and by now, we probably

3:09:58

have non-masculinizing drugs that work as well as the ones that make you a dude.

3:10:02

Oh, my God.

3:10:03

Yeah.

3:10:03

Have you ever thought about bailing out of Canada?

3:10:05

Dude, I would love to.

3:10:07

I've considered it, but there's weird stuff around, like, unrealized capital

3:10:13

gains and exit taxes and shit that basically traps you there.

3:10:17

Really?

3:10:17

Yeah.

3:10:18

So, like, I could physically be present in the States and live here maybe for

3:10:22

six months of a year, but...

3:10:24

To, like, get out of the system fully, you've got to, like, pay the piper on

3:10:27

every company you've ever built, even if you don't have the money from it

3:10:31

because you never sold it.

3:10:32

Wow.

3:10:33

There's gains that were made in Canada, the value of it that you have to pay on.

3:10:37

It's like, how do you pay for it?

3:10:38

I don't have any fucking cash because I didn't sell the company.

3:10:40

So, they make it very difficult to leave the country.

3:10:43

Yeah.

3:10:44

Yeah.

3:10:45

And maybe that changes with Pierre.

3:10:46

I don't know.

3:10:47

But, like, one of the main problems with the economy is there's no incentive

3:10:51

for business owners that are doing well to stay.

3:10:54

Like, everything is structured around how do I get around this fucking system,

3:10:57

not how do I stay here?

3:10:59

So, like, I know personally every friend I have that is successful has either

3:11:04

already left or has tried to find a way to leave.

3:11:08

Actually, I know one person who hasn't, but he's, like, really entrenched in

3:11:13

the system and, like, it would be impossible to unwind at this point.

3:11:17

So, I don't know how much of it is he actually wants to be there or, like, it's

3:11:21

a beautiful place to live in British Columbia, for example.

3:11:25

Yeah.

3:11:25

But, like, yeah, it's fucking cost of living is obscene.

3:11:29

And the tax.

3:11:31

I saw that some kids were doing a TikTok with food at a Canadian supermarket,

3:11:34

like a bunch of chicken wings and how much it was.

3:11:37

Oh, the dollar, too, is horrible.

3:11:38

It's, like, a dollar.

3:11:39

Every dollar in U.S. currency equates to 140 Canadian.

3:11:45

Whoa.

3:11:45

Yeah.

3:11:46

So, your dollar goes super far in Canada.

3:11:48

And then.

3:11:49

140.

3:11:50

Jesus.

3:11:51

And then to buy, like, I don't know.

3:11:54

A car.

3:11:54

A shitty shack fucking house that's not even a house in Vancouver, it's, like,

3:11:59

millions of dollars.

3:12:00

Yeah.

3:12:02

Yeah.

3:12:03

Yeah.

3:12:04

Yeah.

3:12:05

I think the cost of living is only exceeded maybe in real estate by, like, New

3:12:12

York, maybe.

3:12:14

Wow.

3:12:15

Yeah.

3:12:16

It's, like, one of the worst offenders on the planet for cost of a home.

3:12:20

So, basically, back in the day, our parents, one of the main ways to become

3:12:25

financially stable was get in early on a property and build equity in it.

3:12:30

And eventually you'd have a, you know, something that accrued in so much value

3:12:34

from since you got it that, like, that's your main nest egg or whatever.

3:12:39

Yeah.

3:12:40

Nowadays, it's not even possible to afford the lowest threshold of a mortgage

3:12:45

on, like, a place that's not even nice.

3:12:48

So, you have, like, families staying in, like, 500 square foot apartments with

3:12:52

big families because they can't afford anything else.

3:12:55

It says, impossibly unaffordable housing report ranks Vancouver third most

3:12:59

expensive in the world.

3:13:01

Yeah.

3:13:02

Hong Kong and Sydney are the only two.

3:13:04

Wow.

3:13:04

Sydney.

3:13:05

That's interesting.

3:13:06

Huh.

3:13:07

I would have never suspected Sydney, Australia to be that expensive.

3:13:09

That's nuts.

3:13:10

Yeah.

3:13:11

Well, listen, brother.

3:13:12

Anything else you want to talk about before we bail out of here?

3:13:15

I think it was a good one.

3:13:16

Yeah.

3:13:16

Yeah.

3:13:17

A lot of fun.

3:13:18

Yeah.

3:13:18

Thanks for having me, man.

3:13:19

I appreciate you as always.

3:13:20

What's that, Jamie?

3:13:20

The Miss Olympia Wellness we missed out on.

3:13:23

What's that?

3:13:23

A focus on the lower body.

3:13:25

What?

3:13:26

Oh, butts.

3:13:26

Yeah.

3:13:27

Top half doesn't matter.

3:13:27

Oh, yeah.

3:13:28

So, I was going to say.

3:13:28

Top half doesn't matter?

3:13:30

For real?

3:13:30

Yeah.

3:13:30

Shut the fuck up.

3:13:31

Why are they standing face forward then?

3:13:34

The glutes and hips.

3:13:34

Let's see them glutes.

3:13:35

It definitely matters, but not as much as.

3:13:39

It's not focus, I should say.

3:13:39

Yeah.

3:13:40

So, anyway, watching the posing, you were saying it's hard to judge men's bodybuilding.

3:13:46

With women, it's, at least with the bikini category especially, their hair is

3:13:51

really long

3:13:52

and they have extensions too to make it look even longer.

3:13:54

So, when they turn around, basically the only thing you can judge is like ass

3:13:59

down essentially

3:14:00

because their whole back is covered by hair.

3:14:01

Oh, that's weird.

3:14:02

Yeah.

3:14:02

So, it's like a pageant for your butt.

3:14:04

I'm all in.

3:14:07

No, I could, by the way, like any bikini competitor is probably fucking furious

3:14:11

with that statement.

3:14:12

There's absolutely.

3:14:13

Well, they're on trend.

3:14:14

They're going to get angry.

3:14:15

Probably not.

3:14:16

But, like, they're judged on other things, but that's the main factor.

3:14:21

Got it.

3:14:22

Okay.

3:14:22

All right, man.

3:14:23

Well, it's been a lot of fun.

3:14:24

More plates, more dates on YouTube.

3:14:28

What is your website?

3:14:29

Yeah, moreplatesmoredates.com.

3:14:31

Anything else?

3:14:32

No, that's it.

3:14:33

All right.

3:14:33

My pleasure, brother.

3:14:34

Always good to see you.

3:14:35

All right.

3:14:35

Bye, everybody.