#1656 - Adam Duritz

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The Joe Rogan experience

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Hello, hello Joe, how you doing? I'm pretty good. It's good to see it's nice to

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meet you man

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It's nice to be I've been a fan of your work for a long fucking time

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And it's always weird when you meet someone that you listen to their music or

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you've seen their stuff and you're like

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Oh, you're just a normal human being. There you are a little whacked out, but

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yeah

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but it's you know, like I remember watching mr. Jones on

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MTV and I

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Love that fucking video man, and I loved that you dancing in that was it like a

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living room or something like that

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Yeah, I'm like I want to be that free like you seem so loose you were so in the

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moment

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I remember thinking that I was remember talking to a friend of mine that let

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that night after a show

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I was at a bar. I was like you ever see that mr. Jones video. I go when that

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dude's dancing

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I go I want to like figure out how to get there shit. I want to be that free

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You know, it's a weird thing. I used to I'm gonna take this off for now. Okay.

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I used to be

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For me, you know life is

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Often very awkward and uncomfortable, but not on stage, you know like on stage

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I always felt like well. This is one place on everything. I do is fine, right?

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So when I started, you know making videos at first, it was just like

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This is apps. This is easy because all I got to do is do the stuff

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I'm gonna I'm gonna do you know and and there's nothing wrong. I can do I can

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just be as free as I want and

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And that lasted about a year and a half maybe two years

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something out like

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getting really famous out of nowhere and then

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You know all the kind of backlash that comes with it. I noticed a couple years

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later. I was a lot more

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Self-conscious I'm still on stage. I never think about anything when I'm

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playing it. Nothing bothers me

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But in front of cameras, I got really self-conscious in front of cameras after

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Sometime in the middle of our second record. I just noticed that I started to

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suck on not suck on video

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But definitely not like that. Mr. Jones video you became aware that so many

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people were watching and criticizing you or like

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What was it? I think it was that you know, because at first I just

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Well didn't care and I just thought that there's nowhere in the world. I'm more

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comfortable than here

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so I'm fine and

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Then I think on our second album when we got a lot of backlash and you get a

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little too big and everybody you get you annoy the shit out of people

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Yeah, you know, especially because in a band because

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You get a really successful song. They're gonna play it on the radio every five

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minutes after a while

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It's like god who wouldn't get sick of it, you know

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Yeah, and then you get some backlash after that people say some terrible things

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and then and then I started thinking about like

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What do I look like on film then I got really self-conscious, you know?

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Pants does this look my this song make my ass look big?

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I noticed that I got kind of crappy in just in front of cameras not the rest of

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the time and not like cameras when I'm on stage at

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A concert like you play a big festival. There's lots of cameras and doesn't

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bother me there

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It's just kind of sometimes on TV and in filming I got kind of self-conscious

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and I had never been that way the press stuff like that

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Kind of stuff. I think so. I mean, I don't really know what caused it exactly

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I would the only reason I would say I think you're right about that is that is

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that it happened then

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You know and that was the first time I'd experienced that because you know

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No one says anything bad about you when they don't know you exist for one and

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then on our first record

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God, we couldn't buy a bad review, you know, and but by our second record it

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was we weren't even getting it was like

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Forget him. He's fucking this chick. So I don't have to forget his music, you

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know, and then like he got fat whatever it would be

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You know you start, you know when you nationwide but a national publication

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calls you fat

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Shit, I remember getting a review in like in England once and somebody called

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me

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Ponzi is a fishmonger's cat

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Which I suppose fishmonger's cats eat a lot on see like is that like chubby potty

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thought it I thought it meant chubby

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I assume I guess I don't know just sounded bad so pretty compared to a fishmonger's

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cat

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The fact that fishmonger is involved at all as a word when they're talking

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about a concert seems like a bad sign, you know

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Yeah

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There's a thing that happens right like when people discover you and they find

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out about you and you haven't gotten big yet

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Like especially for bands

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I think where they they they love the fact that they're the first to tell their

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friends

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You got to listen to this band got to listen to this album. This is awesome

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But then when you get really big and other people like it and too many people

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like it then you're like oh, man

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They were good in the beginning

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Well, I think I think you're I mean

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I think that music unlike almost everything else

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It becomes our personal cool, you know

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I mean we literally wear it on our shirts, right?

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You know and it defines who we are we talk about this genre or that genre as

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being our gang almost and when when you're discovering stuff

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Yeah, it's really cool

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And then when you have to share it with that guy at the water cooler who likes

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that fucking worst music

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You know that guy who's been coming in for years and he's just listening to

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utter shit

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Yeah

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And now he loves your band too and you're like I don't want to share this with

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captain asshole over there

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You know and I've never understood that because why can't people with terrible

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taste also like great things like great things are great

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No matter what like everybody loves the Godfather, right? Yeah

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Yeah, it's like whoever says that that movie sucks

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Nobody but people who like terrible movies still like the Godfather, you know

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Well, I think it's less because they now like it as that you're now as opposed

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to you were in a club without them

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Right and now you're in a club with them

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And that just sucks because you didn't have to be in a club with them before

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right it's human nature

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I mean, I get it. I didn't like it when it landed on me, but uh

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Yeah, I mean I get it. Well, and it happened to you pre-social media. Yeah, you

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were

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You guys were just getting reviewed by experts. You weren't get shit on by the

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general public yet

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No, I mean, but that was kind of that was a good thing for one, but I was

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really into

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So right. Well, it's for me it had happened when I was kind of already into

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social media because

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I remember moving down to LA after our first album and and that year while I

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was writing the second record

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discovering that AOL had these uh

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Like message boards. So this is 95 say and I realized that AOL had these forums

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and message boards for all the bands

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And it suddenly occurred to me. Well, I could just go on there

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And talk to people because when I read it, they were worried about were we ever

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going to make a second record?

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Were we going to shit? Did we exist anymore? Like what?

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All the questions that you wonder about your band between records

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And it suddenly occurred to me. Well, I could I have the answers to all those

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questions

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You know, I could just go on there and it took me a little while to convince

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the people on there that I was me

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But uh

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Understandably of course, but eventually I did and then we sort of started this

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kind of community there

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Uh, you know way before other social media

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But it occurred to me because the rest of the time you you can't get to your

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fans except through

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Or you couldn't then except through the radio

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The DJs and the press so like you don't really get to give anybody your own

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words

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They got to be filtered through everybody else, right?

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But that AOL thing was a chance to just like well like what twitter and

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everything is now, but

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It occurred to me back then it was really cool

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And when people started then I got into arguments with our own fans. I've

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always done that. It's just like what kind of arguments

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Well, you know like I don't think

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I'm who they think I am

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Who do you think they think you are?

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A classic rock guy driving around in a pickup truck

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Like going to drive-in movie theaters because that's this americana dream

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vision of like we all sit around

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You know going to drive-ins and living some

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Dream of a springsteen song that springsteen isn't even any part of you know

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And I would go on there and I'd be like have you guys heard the first justin

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timberlake album. It's amazing

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It's got like timberland and the neptunes doing all the songs

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And I would try and make this thing to tell them like you should listen to this

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It's brilliant music

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And they just they couldn't grasp the justin timberlake thing because in their

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mind in sync was the guy at the water cooler

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Right. You know and so like I would get in these fights with them like you guys

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don't know shit about music

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You're just like you're in this little niche rigid, you know

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You like us and I think that's very smart and intelligent shows a lot of wisdom

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But you're limited and I get in all these fights with them. That's funny. Yeah,

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it's funny how white people are unwilling to try

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Certain kinds of music because it has this I it has this like

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Feeling to it like that's not that's if you like that

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You can't be smart. You you can't be cool. Like this is yeah, this is shit

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music. You can't like this

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Well, you know that it you know it came out of like

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It did seem at the time like the thing ruining music was the boy bands

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You know what I mean? It just seemed like right there was one after another

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back then it's kind of never stopped

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Um and you know, I don't know how good some of them were maybe they were I don't

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know

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I mean, I look back a little more fondly on the Backstreet Boys now maybe at

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the time

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I couldn't abide any of that, but I mean I get it

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I guess, you know, but I don't think I was who they thought I was or and why

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should you be you know, I mean like

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We're all really individuals and we're certainly not going to just fit into the

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the peg that people would like

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Why would that why would they knew who the hell I am because I don't know them,

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you know, right?

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And then there's always like whatever the publicists have put out and whatever

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Image they're trying to promote for you guys like whatever and then people take

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it in

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They put you in a box. They got you in their head. You're you're that guy. What's

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the guy's name from stained Aaron?

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Louis yeah, so now he's like

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Don't tread on me country western. I'm always carrying a gun

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Like he used to be this like used to think of him as like this sort of alt-rock

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guy

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Right yeah, yeah, and then he's made this like hardcore shift does like god

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guns and country type dude

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Well, yeah, and who else the other guy that I

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friend of my

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Kate Quigley knows him

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Darius Rucker

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Thank you. Yeah Darius from Hootie. Oh, yeah

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Been a country star for a long time now bigger probably than even when he was

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with yeah

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Yeah, which is weird because it's a different world that you don't connect to

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usually don't cross that border

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that can be a real restricted closed society, you know, but

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He's had a lot of success over there. He's huge, right? Yeah, I think I don't

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know

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I think he's gigantic. I don't know what goes on in that country scene

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I like a lot of new country

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Yeah, I mean I we I come from like a country music background and that a lot of

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the guys in my band, you know

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But it doesn't really mesh much much with what is country music now

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I don't really think well, there's a lot of different kinds of country now

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There's like some really good artists that are doing like Sturgill Simpson type

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dudes that are doing he's a really good writer

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Yeah, they're doing country music, but they're they're doing great music that

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has

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Just this sort of country flavor to it and his shit isn't even always country

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like he

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His last album threw everybody on their head. They're like what the this is

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like some crazy arena rock shit

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Like what is this like I haven't heard that record the new one's wild emir my

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guitar player loves Sturgill Simpson. He's awesome

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Yeah, he's a great dude, too

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You had him on yeah, yeah, yeah become friends with him

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He's a cool guy to hang with I always wanted to meet you because you have we

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have a lot of mutual friends

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Like guys that I that I've known for a long time that just love you

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Jeff Jeff Ross, okay saget bob for sure and uh love him. Uh, well, you know brian

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Callen, too. Oh, yeah

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Yeah, love him, too for the first time I ever met brian. We were went to his

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friend's house

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We had just gotten there it was in france

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And we were walking out everybody's like here have a glass of wine

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We're gonna go look at the sunset

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It was on this cliff by the atlantic ocean there and we walking out across the

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lawn. I just met brian like an hour before that and

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There's about eight of us and we're walking across this line brian. He's just

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walking next to me. He turns me and he goes all right now

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You're gonna say to me

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It's it's really captain. It's really quiet out there i'm gonna say

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Maybe too quiet and you're gonna say what do you think it is and i'll take it

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from there

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I said what he goes all right i'll repeat it like uh

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You're gonna say

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Captain it seems really quiet out there i'll say

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Maybe too quiet you say

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What do you think it is and i'll handle the rest of it

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Like uh, okay, wait till we get to the cliff

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I get out there. We're in this group of people everyone's looking at the sunset

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My friend is talking about how if you right at the moment for the sunset. There's

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this green light. It's

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It's this is a very deeply spiritual beautiful moment and uh

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And i go you know brian nods at me and i go

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It's pretty quiet out there captain and he says

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hey

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Maybe too quiet. I said

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uh

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What do you think it is

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He looks around he goes

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Orca

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Apparently it's like this richard harris

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Remember that movie orca the kind of jaws rip off yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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so like

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Orca

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That sounds like brian callen yeah, and then there was probably some gay stuff

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Yeah, probably talked about gay sex

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He just he's like okay. We have to do that all the time now. That's our thing

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and grabbing butts and

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Horses horses they have riding horses. Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe uh guns probably

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the occasional sword. Yeah, yeah, yeah

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sword play

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Fencing

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Savate maybe because you're in france. He'll bring up a french martial art

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Savate

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Yeah, he's he's quite a character. Yeah, yes. Yeah, we know quite a few people

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Have you did you spend any time at the store at the comedy store?

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Um more like the the cellar with uh with jeff a lot of times um

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She's I I met bob

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Oh, I don't know how long ago right when I first started out because uh

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my god daughters

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Her mother was really good friends with laurie lachlan. So she's the my god

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daughter's godmother

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So when I was recording my first album I met them and

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So bob I knew through her because he was on full house, and they would always

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come to shows

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I just stayed friends with him for years, and then I met jeff

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Bob

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Had me come to the like the premiere of the aristocrats or not the premiere

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It was like a screening at this at the writers guild for just for all the comedians

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that were in it

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It was like me and a couple friends and then bob and 50 comedians

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And jeff was there so we met and he had just made this movie called uh patriot

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games. Did you ever see that?

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No, he took a trip to

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uh

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To iraq right after the when they first opened it after the when that desert

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storm when the war not desert storm

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I guess it was the second iraq war

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um

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And he he brought a little camera with him and he filmed all this stuff and the

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comedy stuff

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But also like what it was like. I mean is before they closed anything so they

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were they were playing like

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You know holes dug in the dirt really he got to see all over the country at

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that point

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He made a really cool film about

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You know being in a comedy tour over there with all the troops right then

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Um, so he showed it to me and we just kind of became friends and started doing

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stuff together. We did a trip

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with the uso me and him and uh

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Sarah tiana colin kane. I know sarah very well. Oh, yeah stewie stone and like

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robert klein and we did a

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me so like five comedians

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And me playing the only songs I can play on piano which are the mopiest shit we

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have

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So it's like I was right in the middle of the show we went around germany

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together to the bases and uh

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Played why did you decide to go solo?

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Why did you decide to go without a band?

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It was just like because it's just kind of comedy they're doing it really bare

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bones

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So jeff's like hey, you want to do this thing? I was like ah let's go

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So it was it was weird though because I I mean

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I can I'm not a very good piano player

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I can only really play a few things and they're mopey you know as shit so right

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it'd be like

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Colin would play then sarah

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And stewie was hosting all of it and uh and then it'd be me and then jeff and

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then robert klein

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and uh

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So it's like it's a pretty stark change in the middle there to like

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Mope the mope fest. I had to start telling jokes and just like just ripping

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with jeff

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It was so such a bizarre contrast

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It's fun though. It was like really fun to be it was like being a camp with all

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the funny people

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Your music is oftentimes so emotional there's so much

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So much feeling and pat did you ever feel like

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Almost like you this is what you have to do

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Because this is like the your initial success was in this kind of music or is

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your music always

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Sort of had that kind of emotional flavor to it. I think that was always the

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thing. I mean

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You kind of want to find something

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That you can bear to people you know, like I mean b-a-r-e like really open, you

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know

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The more you can open something up and let people in and that's kind of the

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whole thing

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I think when

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We're trying to make a record you just kind of want to make a world that people

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can climb into for a while and like

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Feel something you know go from here to there with you and yeah, so I know I

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always just kind of thought that was

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Um, you know, but sometimes you know, there's there's hope and joy in there too,

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but yeah, it's about feeling stuff mostly I think

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That was always kind of what it seemed like it was about because I think I

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always had trouble

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uh

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Feeling things with other people you know just in normal life, right

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But uh, and I always liked music

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I and when I would listen to it

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I I think that's one of the things I loved about it was that you could get lost

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in it

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And you could feel all this stuff and they seem to be able to communicate stuff

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to me when I was listening to a record

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um

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You know and I was a

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I just couldn't figure out what to do with music when I was a kid because you

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know

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I didn't I just could sing so I don't know what that means high school musicals

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or something, but where's that going?

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When did you start when you start singing?

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I probably sang from birth, you know like really early on as a kid

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I could always sing and I liked singing, but I don't know what to do with

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singing

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And when I was a freshman in college like my first term

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I wrote a song like it was like within the first month and a half. I was at

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school. I wrote my there was a

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I was in chemistry class or something and I started kind of thinking of the

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song in my head and I

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Wrote it down and was humming it to myself and after class

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I went back to my dorm because there's a lounge with a piano across the hall

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from my room

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And I went there like locked the door and sat there all day trying to figure

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out humming stuff and trying to figure out what note that was and then

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See if I could find a chord that worked with that note. I kind of knew how to

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make a major and a minor chord, you know, that's all I knew

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um

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And I wrote a song and as soon as I'd written that song

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I was a songwriter. Wow, so that was your first real attempt at creating a song

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just out of nowhere in chemistry class. Yeah

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I mean, I think I'd written like lyrical stuff before but I'd never actually

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tried to make it something I could play

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and uh

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I just figured this thing out and you know, that's the thing when you're a kid

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you don't

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Like you're pretty undefined. You don't know what's going to go on with your

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life

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You don't know what you're going to be you like the whole adulthood things

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because you've been pretty structured

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You go to school or people tell you what to do when you're a kid and you go do

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it

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You know, you do the best you can you go to school you go play a sport for fun

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You know, and you know, I'm still in that in college

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You know, the adulthood thing seems really like confusing like what am I going

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to do? How am I going to take care of myself?

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Uh people get jobs I guess and then then people do people tell you what to do

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for the rest of your life after that

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That doesn't seem very good. Um

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And then I wrote literally I mean, I wrote this song and it was like a

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Light going off in my head or coming on I just from that moment on I was like,

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oh, I'm a songwriter

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I don't know how the fuck to do that or how to like I'm not sure how to make a

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life being a songwriter

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But I am a songwriter I'll have to figure that out

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You know, I kind of knew what I was going to do before any of my friends

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I didn't know how to do it

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But like it was just like

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Like something switch went on as soon as I did it

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I knew who I was kind of in a way that I had never known before

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Um, what did you think you were going to do for a living before that moment?

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I don't know man. You just were trying to figure it out. Yeah, my dad's a

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doctor

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My mom is too now, but uh

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What were you going to school for?

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I thought I'd be a writer or something. I liked english. I liked writing. Um

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I didn't really know, you know, I was uh, I've done

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For the first couple years

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I was a women's studies major because I ended up in this class and it was

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really interesting. I was kind of blown away by it

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um

20:50

But I don't know you know that taking care. I mean that's stuff you do in

20:54

school

20:54

You know fields of study and things, you know, you could go on school for a

20:58

while

20:58

But but you had never been in a band or anything until that moment

21:02

I had when I was a kid like when I was like 13 I was in a band

21:05

We played at friends bar mitzvahs and shit. Oh, yeah

21:06

We just did like beatles and you know, we our parents told each of us we could

21:11

get one song book

21:12

So we just bought the beatles the stones and led zeppelin because they had the

21:15

most shit in the book, you know

21:17

They were the thicker books

21:19

But that's just like cover songs when you're 13 or 14

21:21

No, my first band was still a few years away, but I wrote every day from that

21:26

point on

21:27

I just was obsessed with like because all of a sudden

21:30

I had this way where I could all the stuff I'd been feeling and thinking and

21:34

like

21:35

You know, I had all this stuff that I felt like inside me, but you know, you're

21:39

not

21:39

I felt kind of playing when I was talking to people right didn't really

21:45

I felt like a pretty average

21:47

dude and not really impressive in the way I wanted to be you know and uh

21:51

Not special in any way and I was I thought I was supposed to be you know, but

21:56

then I wrote a song and I could you know

21:57

Then it was like, oh, I can communicate all this stuff, you know

22:01

Pretty rudimentary back then but even then it was like

22:04

Well for me, it was real powerful like to play a song people could feel things

22:09

All of a sudden all this stuff inside me had a place to go and that was that

22:12

was big

22:13

Isn't that interesting? It's like kind of everybody feels like somewhere inside

22:17

of them is something special

22:19

I think most people I mean, there's a few people that have self-esteem issues

22:23

that maybe don't

22:23

Think that but a lot of people feel like there's moments

22:26

Where they're capable of doing something special. They just don't know what

22:30

that thing is

22:32

Well, I think they also don't realize

22:36

How much it takes to do things like that like it is dedication, you know, you're

22:40

gonna

22:40

You're gonna play music you want to go on stage and do comedy. It's not gonna

22:44

be that good at first

22:45

It's gonna be a struggle. There's a lot of people who are better at it and

22:48

those people, you know, it's a lot of work a lot of

22:51

dedication a lot of risk

22:54

Thinking about doing a job that's really hard to support yourself at

22:56

You know, you especially you want to work in the arts, you know, like that's

23:01

It's a minuscule it's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction that's so small

23:05

that it's like a number that doesn't exist people who can

23:07

Support themselves doing the arts any kind of art, you know, yeah

23:10

And then you know

23:13

You're gonna have to get if you want to play a musician you're gonna get in a

23:15

band

23:15

You're gonna fight with your friends because it's not fun. It's not a hobby

23:19

anymore. You know, it's different

23:20

It's satisfying but fun is like a very small term for what it means to do this

23:25

sort of thing

23:26

You know fun doesn't quite cut it

23:27

Well, I've always felt like a band was probably the hardest thing because not

23:32

only do you have to figure your shit out

23:33

But you have to make sure that the other people in the band figure their shit

23:36

out, too

23:37

And you all have to be dedicated and professional and show up on time and be

23:42

disciplined and be creative and also work together

23:46

So you have to be cooperative and you have to be understanding and you have to

23:51

like figure out the ego dance and

23:54

who's putting what and where and who's adding spice to the soup and

23:58

Oh, I mean

23:59

Any kind of cooperative artistic thing like that is brutal. It is really hard,

24:04

but there's no way it's the heart. I mean I

24:06

To me it's funny because to me

24:08

It's always been comedy because like I have friends who do it and you watch

24:11

what it takes to be on stage

24:12

I am not dependent on anybody in the audience to play show like it just does

24:16

not matter

24:17

I'm glad they're there. I really am. It's great. I hope they cheer really loud

24:21

But I could play a great show

24:24

Either way, but like an empty room. Yeah, I mean, you know, I wear a room that

24:29

doesn't get it

24:30

I'm still gonna play a show and it's still gonna be good

24:32

Man, like I watch Jeff sometimes especially lately because when him and Dave

24:37

are doing that thing

24:37

They just like it doesn't seem like there's any preparation. They're just kind

24:41

of they're just riffing

24:42

Yeah, yeah, and like that's complete freestyle

24:45

Improvisation, but either way even if it's just all written material, you're

24:49

still riding

24:50

It's like surfing an audience, you know, like that's terrifying

24:53

And a dependent and dependent in a way because you know

24:56

If you have the success of the moment it builds to the next moment to the next

25:00

moment in a way that we don't need

25:01

But like as a comedian man, it's like it is such a tightrope to walk with you

25:07

know

25:08

Dealing with heckler everything that goes into that shit. It's just like I went

25:11

to an open mic night last night

25:13

Yeah, it was wild. I hadn't been to an open mic night in a while

25:16

And it was it was interesting to watch because there was maybe

25:20

Six or seven audience members and maybe 20 comedians in the audience

25:27

So they're mostly just kind of practicing talking into a microphone

25:32

And you know just trying to work it out and you're just seeing

25:37

You're seeing like single-celled organisms try to divide and and become

25:42

complicated life forms and you can see like the sort of clunkiness to the idea

25:47

because you know

25:48

A lot of the folks that were on stage last night probably had only been on

25:50

stage a couple of times

25:51

Or maybe it was their first time and you could see it, you know, it's like wow

25:55

This is wild. That's really cool though. I mean like you could see like the

26:00

Genesis of things, you know, somebody like developing something someone doesn't

26:05

have their material there yet

26:07

But they've got a thing, you know, it seems so far

26:10

Like the road like you're it's like a person who lands on Plymouth Rock and you're

26:15

gonna walk to San Francisco

26:17

Like yeah, it can be done

26:19

People have done it. It could be done

26:21

But all those first steps you have so many steps. It's such a far walk

26:26

It is far

26:27

But that's what I meant about like people not understanding like

26:30

How much you want to do this you can do it? There's no rule that says you can't

26:34

Right, but it takes it's not just the talent. It takes

26:37

It's a long walk. Yeah, and there's a reason why so few people do it

26:41

Yeah, there's a reason why so few people wind up actually being a professional

26:45

You have to be able to grind some people just can't they can't they can't just

26:50

Embrace this process because the process like there's a lot of days you don't

26:55

want to do it

26:56

It's a lot of days you don't want to go on stage, but you must you must yeah,

26:59

you got to continue to try to figure it out

27:02

There was a moment at the improv

27:05

uh

27:07

in la

27:08

Where

27:09

There's this lady on stage and I think she had just started or she was fairly

27:13

recent

27:13

And so she would do one of the things that comics do when they're first

27:17

starting out

27:17

They'll have a premise and it doesn't go anywhere

27:19

And then they go into a completely unrelated premise and it doesn't go anywhere

27:23

They have like their bits are very short. They don't they don't expand on their

27:27

ideas

27:28

They don't really know how to yet and she's she's kind of bombing

27:31

And uh, we're sitting there watching her and I was checking to see when I was

27:35

up because I was up like two people after

27:36

And me and the dj are watching her bomb and I just go

27:39

It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll

27:42

and

27:43

And then two two people later was me and I went on stage and he brought me up

27:48

to it's a long way

27:50

To the top and that has been my opening song

27:54

From then out every time I do stand up every time I go on stage

27:58

If there's playing music they play acdc long way to the top because it's like

28:04

It is it's a long and bloody grind and that song just nails it

28:10

That song you know and you got to be brave too

28:13

Like on top of the length of it don't forget that especially like for what you

28:18

guys do

28:18

Uh, it is scary

28:20

A lot especially in the beginning and at least

28:24

You always have a risk of the bomb you know what I mean?

28:28

It's always out there waiting for you like

28:30

And it's you know even if it comes you still got it you can climb out of it

28:33

But the risk of the bomb is what makes killing so good

28:38

Yeah

28:38

It makes it feel so good is that you know you can buy everyone could bomb we

28:41

can all bomb

28:42

And so you know that and I've had

28:44

Moments like recently that are just not that good you have a bit that you're

28:48

trying out

28:49

And it's kind of clunky or you fuck something up and like

28:51

You have sets that are just flat you're like shit

28:54

But that's just part of the process and that makes it

28:58

When it's like last night at a great show and last night like everything like

29:02

sunk in and just

29:03

Just was seamless and it flowed it was free it was fun and those most moments

29:09

Only come out of the depths of despair

29:12

You have to work your way through the shit

29:16

And I guess it's got to be like that with music too

29:19

I mean you there must have been gigs that you guys did in the early days where

29:23

you're just like

29:23

I don't even know how long I can do this

29:26

I remember one the first I always remember this gig because I don't know we've

29:29

played this town since then

29:31

It was a

29:33

Was it lexington kentucky? I'm trying to remember what it was like a

29:36

A southeastern college town

29:40

I'm spacing on what we were opening for cracker

29:42

And it was this club and it was upstairs was the the club part of it

29:47

And the stage is one of those ones that's in the corner like a triangle like

29:51

comes across the corner and uh

29:55

There's just uh

29:56

The audience is all out the rest of the clubs lengthwise and the stage is in

30:00

the corner over here

30:00

And there's no like back the backstage is is that near the front door?

30:04

And you gotta like they just kept like a border around the club of people so

30:08

you could walk and you have to walk around

30:10

Everybody to get up to the stage and so we get up there to open the show

30:13

And the the monitors are busted like the tweeters blown out on the monitors, so

30:17

it's just like

30:19

The whole time, you know, and it's like just you can't hear anything and i'm

30:22

trying to sing it's before we had in-ears, you know, and

30:24

My voice is already wrecked from the first year of touring because I had never

30:28

sung that much, you know

30:29

I'm really tired and so we played and i'm i'm

30:32

We were terrible like i mean terrible and uh

30:35

Because it was just so bad. I mean later on that night cracker got on stage and

30:40

They were pretty good, but they hated it so much that like he stuck his guitar

30:44

through that monitor after a while because he couldn't hear anything

30:46

It was just like what what you're a club man fix the goddamn right right, you

30:49

know, like the horns are all busted

30:51

So anyways, we get done this particularly

30:54

Terrible set. I mean and we do a lot of improvisation on stage two

30:58

We're making whole shit up which doesn't get any better

31:00

By the way when you you can't hear anything and you're when you're sucking we're

31:04

still trying it and it's still just like

31:05

Oh, just you know anything would have been better than what we did so the man

31:09

with the set ends

31:09

and and

31:12

It's just silence man. There's no booing or anything, but nobody's clapped like

31:16

nobody's clapping

31:17

There's just nothing. There's just fucking nothing happening in there. It's

31:20

just like

31:20

Like like nothing had happened like they were just everyone's just kind of

31:24

looking at us like maybe we're going to play another song

31:27

I don't know. They don't really want us to but they're not trying to encourage

31:30

us and so we just like

31:31

I remember some of those guys had to grab their stuff

31:34

I kind of walked down off the stage and you know around down the whole side of

31:38

the crowd

31:39

Across the back to the little dressing room silence just people looking at me

31:44

So fucking humiliating just the worst I've never forgotten it except I guess I

31:53

have forgotten where it was, but I think it was Lexington

31:56

I don't know but it was just the worst fucking show and just just the utter

32:00

silence though that the like they were confused as to what we were doing

32:04

Like as if like it would have been confusing to them if we kept playing it was

32:09

weird that we stopped

32:10

Whatever we were doing

32:12

They didn't really get it. I didn't mean I don't understandably. It was just

32:16

fucking

32:19

One time like I came off a tour and I had messed up my knee

32:22

I'd scraped up my knee early in the tour and it kept getting infected and I

32:24

ended up having like a staph infection inside my knee

32:26

It was really bad

32:27

So I got off stage the last gig and I had to go in for surgery the next day

32:31

And uh, they you know opened my knee up and cleaned it out and then

32:34

Uh, they released me later that day and it was the day that jeff was releasing

32:39

Uh, he he wrote a book like I can't remember what it's called wrote you only

32:42

roast the ones you love maybe yeah, and he he had uh

32:46

He was having like a

32:49

I don't know what you call a book release party I guess at the friars club

32:52

because he was real excited

32:53

He'd wanted me to come and I was like

32:55

I'd just gotten out of the hospital

32:57

That like late that morning and I was but I felt okay, you know, um, and it was

33:03

all sewn up so

33:04

I you know I was a little high from the drugs, but I was okay, so I I put on

33:10

like a tux

33:11

Tails, but I couldn't wear the pants because I had this huge bandage on my knee

33:15

So I just put some shorts on and nice shoes too, and I got a cane and I I went

33:20

to the friars club to this thing

33:21

I don't want to be there to support jeff, you know, and

33:22

So he comes

33:25

He's up on the like the dais of the it's like in one of the rooms

33:29

They're not not a stage, but he's up on there talking thanking some people and

33:32

he comes down

33:33

He got me a chair just a room full of comics and he got me a chair so I could

33:38

sit down near the front

33:39

Everyone else is standing just because I you know had surgery and he comes down

33:43

I want to really I think my friend adam came with me and you know

33:45

We went on this trip a little while ago, and he's just a he's a good friend and

33:49

he

33:49

hands me the mic and

33:52

For some reason instead of just saying you know congratulations jeff or

33:55

whatever

33:55

I took the mic out of his hand and I walked up on the stage to like the podium

33:59

Put it in the mic thing and I

34:02

Because I don't know some part of me thought i'm at the friars club and I

34:05

should make a speech for jeff's thing

34:08

But by the time I got up there and put the mic in I realized what am I doing

34:13

here?

34:13

Like I'm like, I don't know what to do

34:16

I'm just I just like sort of looked at them and I said

34:20

So I peed on my girlfriend earlier today

34:24

Because I it had happened you know like when they finished the surgery they

34:29

You know they gave me this epidural and I'm your whole lower half of your body.

34:33

So I don't know what's going on and

34:34

Uh

34:36

I'd come out a bit and they were my you know girlfriend was like, how are you?

34:39

I'm like, I don't know. I feel weird. I feel pretty good

34:41

Am I am I bleeding down here am I wet and and

34:44

And she reaches like under the skirt to check me out and she's like

34:48

I just I think you're you're peeing that's all you're just you're peeing

34:52

yourself right now

34:53

I'm like, oh, how do you know and she goes because you're peeing on me right

34:56

now

34:57

She pulls her hand. I'm like, oh shit. I'm sorry. I can't I don't know what's

35:00

going on and I couldn't feel anything so like

35:03

So when you're numb for an epidural it just pee just comes out whenever it

35:06

wants to I guess

35:07

I don't know like I I felt weird and like a weird warmth and I asked her if

35:11

there was something on there and she's like

35:12

Yeah, you're you're you're peeing yourself properly

35:14

I'm like, how do you know and she goes because you're pissing on me right now

35:17

And I was like, so so I'm standing there in the friars club and I just said so

35:21

I

35:21

peed on my girlfriend earlier today and the place just breaks up and I was just

35:24

I that's I guess that's one more thing she's got in common with my mom

35:29

And I don't know I went on for a couple minutes told that story and I was just

35:33

like killing I was like really good

35:35

I was patient I was like not rushing anything probably because I was kind of stoned

35:40

from the drugs

35:41

And I just like I got about two minutes of it

35:44

I just drilled it was hysterical I came down some older guy comes up to me and

35:50

goes like

35:50

You killed it was you and Vagoda you and Vagoda were amazing tonight. You're

35:54

always welcome to the front

35:55

What where do you usually work? I'm like, I'm not a comedian. He's like you're

35:58

kidding

35:59

That's it was like

36:01

But I mean it was it was the greatest thing because it's like you were saying I

36:04

was terrified

36:04

I got I stupidly got myself into the situation and then of all things

36:09

Did like, you know, it feels like I did 10 minutes, but it's probably like two

36:14

minutes of stand-up

36:14

I did like a minute and a half stand-up in front of like the history of comedy

36:19

like and

36:20

Crushed it and as i'm coming down off the stage. I was like hey, that was

36:23

pretty good and jeff goes. I know it's like crack, right?

36:26

I'm like

36:28

I'll talk to you more about it later

36:30

And then he goes back up on stage

36:32

I mean, it was just like I don't know what I was doing getting up there

36:34

It was the dumbest thing, but it was so like because it worked out

36:38

Yeah, because i've been there with friends of mine who are comics and i've bantered

36:41

with them played piano like in that little keyboard

36:43

You know in the cellar with jeff and with bob sometimes just done that shit

36:46

with them and uh

36:47

You know, it's always terrifying but like that one moment. I wasn't even with

36:52

them. I just did it and

36:54

Oh, it's the greatest thing. I mean to this day

36:56

I don't know if there's a performing moment that I feel prouder of than that

37:00

one even though it was completely accidental

37:02

You know, it's just like because it was so

37:04

Terrifying and unsupported. I didn't have a band. I didn't have anything. I

37:08

didn't have jeff or bob. It was just

37:11

Maybe it's probably just a minute, you know, whatever short it was though. It

37:14

was

37:14

It was like it was fire man. You know what I mean?

37:17

It was

37:19

Is it recorded?

37:20

Oh, I don't I don't think so because it wasn't like a real performance

37:23

It was like a little hall and he it was like one of the side rooms and jeff was

37:26

in there

37:27

Everyone was there to celebrate him and he made a talk a few people spoke

37:30

I don't really remember where it was because i've been to the fires club a few

37:33

times, but

37:33

I don't really know where that room was

37:36

I'll have to ask jeff sometime, but no, there's no way it was recorded

37:38

I don't think because it wasn't like anyone was performing right right right at

37:42

least I don't think so

37:42

Did it make you think about doing it again like actually preparing a set?

37:47

Are you like you know what i'm one and done i'm one and oh i'm gonna retire

37:50

undefeated

37:51

Yeah, I don't know i'll be honest with you every time jeff wants me to go play

37:55

with him and do that sort of stuff

37:56

First of all because I can't play piano very well

37:57

So I end up just picking four chords and playing them in a circle

38:00

It's not like mayors up there with him who can actually play you know right

38:03

But I like bantering with jeff and it's fun if terrifying you know

38:07

But he's so good he can kind of like hold your hand

38:10

Yeah, he really is through it if you stumble he's got something funny to cover

38:14

it up

38:14

Yeah, and he's got that like i'm not sure there's a better

38:18

Sound in this world than that laugh of his you know yeah when he's just giggling

38:22

at the stuff

38:23

It's going hey i can't even do it the laugh you know when he's he's giggling is

38:27

he's giggles for his friends

38:28

And laughs for his friends when they're being funny you know like i've known jeff

38:31

since before he was jeff ross

38:32

Oh lip schultz yeah, i've known him back in the in the old days wow

38:36

You know he's a black belt in taekwondo

38:39

only reason i know that is because uh i saw it on the uh

38:42

It was when i was looking through your podcast at one point i watched like i

38:46

was when to watch the ones

38:48

Some of the ones with my friends on them you know i knew

38:50

Um yeah and i saw that picture of him like when he's i don't know how old is he

38:54

like i don't know he's pretty young

38:56

Yeah, he looks really young uh he's got that

38:58

Big he used to have really curly hair too you know yeah great curly hair yeah

39:01

Yeah, that's a great picture yeah did he not do it after that for a while i don't

39:06

think he does anything

39:07

Yeah, i think he swims and like drinks

39:10

Both pleasant you know yeah swimming can be unpleasant when you do it for too

39:15

long well drinking is great you know

39:17

Have you been to his house in hollywood hills oh no no he's i haven't either i've

39:20

been his place in the village

39:21

He sent me photos of it it's he has a pool

39:25

Where when you go in the pool if you're in his house you could see the pool

39:31

Like oh really the the side of the pool's glass

39:34

And it busts up against the house so someone's swimming in the pool like you

39:39

can get up there and you could see it from outside

39:42

Wow note to self don't piss in that pool yeah don't ill people can see it wow

39:46

that's wild yeah it's pretty wild

39:48

So he's just up there lounging looking at the world watching it burn

39:52

From the hollywood like literally watching it burn sometimes at least a couple

39:56

times a year yeah especially now

39:58

Now he's like that was kind of wild seeing that

40:01

You did taekwondo too you were the champion in taekwondo right i yeah i won a

40:06

bunch of tournaments

40:07

Yeah, that's what i was that's all i did when i was 15 from 15 to like 21 22

40:12

That's the martial art that i did when i was a kid like

40:15

It was i must have been pretty young it was like texas and denver so it was

40:18

like

40:18

Seven and eight it's a good martial art for kids yeah some discipline and stuff

40:22

it was i remember it being fun but

40:24

It uh it got me hit well

40:27

You know you're like i don't know when i'd start doing that in like

40:31

2002 maybe i started boxing you know i started boxing with this boxing trainer

40:36

in l.a just to get in shape

40:37

i was really out of shape and then he would come on the road with us for a

40:40

while and we would like

40:41

Train with the whole band in the mornings usually and then he and i after soundcheck

40:46

we would do like 10 rounds

40:47

You know about you know wherever we were at the gig and just

40:50

Exercise in the afternoon right so we do it for a while and uh

40:55

but like early on when we were doing this you know he was doing some stuff

40:58

where like

40:59

i was just working defensive stuff and he threw like a low hook at me and i i

41:03

did this thing you

41:04

know i blocked it with my arm and he's like what's that i was like i

41:07

i don't know it's a i just blocked it he goes don't do that you'll get why he's

41:13

like don't drop

41:14

your hands when you're boxing it's a bad habit like okay you know and then i

41:18

did it when he threw a

41:19

low hook and i you know just dropped my arm down to block it and he goes where

41:23

is this block coming

41:24

from what is this kind of thing he's like he goes did you do taekwondo when you

41:27

were a kid i was like

41:28

uh yeah i did it weird well how'd you know that he goes i think it's a i think

41:32

that's a taekwondo block

41:34

but that's you know like i think it works in taekwondo because of the nature of

41:38

the

41:39

the rules but like you don't want to do that boxing don't drop your hands

41:43

boxing because i go

41:44

what's the big deal he goes well because you're gonna get hit you know you're

41:46

gonna get hit in the

41:47

head too don't drop your hands especially not your right hand you know that's

41:51

where hooks come from

41:52

that side and i was like well i mean i don't know what the big i blocked your

41:55

punch he goes

41:55

don't don't do that like don't don't say that don't say that i was like all

42:00

right so we do a little

42:01

more and and uh he threw a low hook again i went like this and he just whack

42:06

hit me in the head not

42:08

hard the first time and he was like taekwondo and i was like oh fuck you man so

42:13

i was go do it again i did

42:15

it again i could not break myself with a habit and every time i like he would

42:18

just like whoop whoop hit me in the

42:20

head whoop whoop hit me in the head and every time he would just go taekwondo

42:24

well you know what it is

42:25

is a lot of martial arts a lot especially in the old days before the ufc came

42:29

around

42:30

a lot of them were closed systems right so if you were doing taekwondo you

42:34

would only do it against

42:35

people who are doing taekwondo right so you didn't know that the things you

42:38

were doing left you

42:39

susceptible to certain techniques from other sports so like in mma you don't

42:44

ever see anybody blocking

42:46

like that because they've realized like first of all if you block a kick like

42:50

that you break your arm

42:52

and second of all you do leave yourself open to punches so now people block

42:56

when they block kicks

42:57

they try to block with two arms if someone's kicking high you try to block with

43:02

two arms and you you try

43:04

to get as much as your of your body out of the way but you don't do this like

43:08

taekwondo style it

43:09

doesn't really work but in taekwondo it kind of worked because it was a closed

43:13

system right that's what he's

43:14

trying to tell me is like this is something that worked boxers never do you

43:16

have a habit there

43:18

because that's the one thing you learn when you're younger so don't do it it's

43:21

like don't drop your

43:22

hands like it also happens when people get hit in the legs a lot and they get

43:26

in pain like when a low

43:27

kick starts coming they try to like stop it with their arm because just because

43:31

it hurts so much and then

43:32

someone sets them up and pretends to throw a low there's a thing called a

43:35

question mark kick you ever

43:36

seen that no but it's like it looks like you're gonna kick someone low and then

43:40

it turns around and it

43:41

kicks them high yeah either it looks like it's going to go up the front or it

43:45

looks like it's going to go

43:46

low on the outside and then it comes around there's a guy named uh glaube fatosa

43:51

who used to fight in

43:52

k1 he had like the most beautiful question mark kick and they they started

43:57

calling it the brazilian kick

43:59

because he was so good at it he he he had these crazy hips he would he like if

44:05

you watch him do it it

44:06

almost doesn't make sense like his foot would be coming straight at you and

44:11

then out of nowhere it

44:12

would do a full question mark and chop down it's let's see if you can find it

44:18

glaube fatosa uh ko but

44:21

so much like question mark kick was always the name of it it was that was a

44:25

traditional it was either

44:26

called fake front kick round kick or as because all his card or or it was

44:30

called question mark kick but

44:31

then with fatosa a lot of people started calling it the brazilian kick because

44:35

he was so good at it

44:36

but it was weird how good he was like his hips i can't do what he does like it's

44:41

a he's got a weird

44:42

hip flexibility you got something i couldn't spell his name right hold on yeah

44:47

it's a weird one he's brazilian

44:49

um but he uh he would literally when the when the kick impact impacted it would

44:57

be coming down like a

44:58

hammer watch him watch this that's not a good one that's a hard one to tell see

45:04

if you can see it

45:05

again though watch yeah dude they'll throw watch this oh yeah yeah come on that's

45:10

crazy looks like it's

45:11

coming up under his arm and then it whips over it look at that he does that kyokushin

45:14

like the

45:15

fucking ki at the end but look how it comes low and then i mean the way he

45:19

would do it was like

45:20

sensational hip flexibility isn't that wild that rotation at the last minute it's

45:27

wild man

45:28

nobody did it better than glaube i mean he's just the famous for a lot of guys

45:34

are good at it

45:35

maybe uh style bender does it really good too but it's wild watching you know

45:39

mixed martial arts like that

45:43

interesting which disciplines tend to be effective i mean it seemed to me early

45:47

on when it first came

45:48

around it was a lot of grapplers uh some guys that had beginning wrestling and

45:53

then i mean i

45:55

haven't watched a ton of it but jujitsu seemed to be really effective for a

45:58

while like what's his

45:59

name uh hoist crazy silva i was thinking of like anderson silva yeah well anderson

46:05

was a muay thai

46:05

guy he had brazilian jujitsu he was very he's a black belt in jujitsu but his

46:09

whole thing was striking

46:11

he was a muay thai guy his whole thing was kicking the out of you yeah

46:15

which would hurt oh yeah for him yeah well he's to this day still one of the

46:22

greatest of all time

46:23

but jujitsu what we were talking about guys out he did those chokes he

46:26

definitely did he choked out

46:28

chael sonnen in the fifth round of like a fight where he was losing he was

46:30

getting the kicked out of

46:32

him yeah well he went into that fight apparently legend has it with a broken

46:37

rib he had a

46:38

fucked up rib going into that fight so he couldn't really move properly couldn't

46:42

defend against

46:43

takedowns but still figured out a way to win boy chel sonnen was just pounding

46:47

him and oh yeah

46:48

finally it looked like he was done he had him on the ground he was on top and

46:51

then all of a sudden

46:52

his just legs just went caught him in a triangle yeah yeah well yeah chel was a

46:57

beast but anderson

46:58

figured it out just i mean that's that's a guy like him who could do everything

47:03

he can strike he can

47:04

submit you and because he has all these skills like even when he's losing he

47:10

still could pull it out of

47:11

his ass out of nowhere that's what he did are any of the guys who like i just

47:15

love martial arts movies

47:16

or any of the guys that were like you know the have any of them been really

47:20

good fighters as well i mean

47:21

i wouldn't know how to tell in movies yeah chuck norris yeah oh yeah chuck norris

47:25

was a world kickboxing

47:27

champion he was super legit out of all the people that have ever been in

47:30

martial arts movies

47:32

that are like famous guys chuck is the most legit for sure a hundred percent

47:38

like there's never been

47:39

a guy who had more like battle tested combat sports experience who became a

47:45

movie star than chuck norris

47:47

because in his day like that kickboxing back then was not the same and karate

47:54

tournaments and everything

47:55

it's not like the level that people have today like if you watch like a nikki

48:00

holtzkin or some like

48:01

elite kickboxing guy today it's a different level there it's it's more advanced

48:06

but it's the same like

48:07

going and watching the ufc from 1993 and then watching the ufc in 2021 they're

48:13

more it's just everyone's

48:14

more advanced they're just better now it's just the sport evolves and gets

48:18

better but in his day

48:20

chuck norris was a bad like legitimately badass world champion kickboxer

48:27

and um i think he learned in korea in the military i think that's when he first

48:34

started if i'm not

48:35

mistaken but he was a tang su do guy which is like another korean martial art

48:41

but uh yeah out of all

48:42

the guys that have ever been supposedly this is him fighting i can't tell if it

48:46

is or not but that's

48:47

what it says a grand champion match which one is he the one on his feet winning

48:53

in the end yeah that's

48:55

chuck norris with his back to us this guy here yeah oh these guys are good see

49:00

this is early days 1966

49:02

i wasn't even born yet when these guys are doing karate

49:10

yeah okay so this is like a point karate championship interesting it's music

49:16

yeah is it music playing is that what it is there's no sound i was hoping to i

49:22

think that's chuck

49:24

with his facing us and the other guy's got his back it's hard to tell though

49:27

yeah yeah they're so young

49:28

yeah it looks like chuck but anyway he did this he also did kickboxing he yeah

49:34

chuck norris had he done a

49:36

lot of stuff does muay thai use as many like those heavy elbow strikes that you

49:40

see like tony jah

49:41

doing oh yeah muay thai that is tony jah that's that's muay thai muay thai is

49:45

all about the elbows

49:46

like the they have the best elbow strikes in martial arts elbows and knees leg

49:52

kicks yeah all that stuff

49:54

is that's muay thai that's crazy to watch him it's pretty great that that every

49:58

time i see uh ang bak again

49:59

he's i know it's wild yeah it's very rare that a guy is a like a legit martial

50:08

artist and then makes

50:10

his way and becomes a big time action star i guess randy couture has done

50:13

pretty well he's done quite a

50:15

few action movies and george st pierre was in captain america but as far as

50:19

like being like an action

50:20

star like the rock style star it's definitely chuck norris he was the he was

50:25

the he's the mac daddy of it

50:27

all you know he's a super nice guy too really oh yeah he's like one guy that

50:32

when i met him like i was

50:34

so excited he knew who i was i met him at one of his world karate championship

50:39

tournaments his uh world

50:41

kickball i forget world combat league that's what it was called and uh he's

50:45

like joe i was like oh

50:46

chuck norris knows my name and i hugged him and then i but i didn't get a

50:51

picture with him i was like

50:53

fuck and then finally uh later uh many years later there was this uh there was

51:01

this award ceremony that

51:04

they were doing and they asked me to speak at it and i did it just so i could

51:07

meet chuck norris again

51:10

i did it was like in this conference room thing and i got a picture with chuck

51:14

it's on my instagram

51:15

somewhere but just had to make sure that i documented i actually met chuck norris

51:19

yeah i had this uh when they know you like man that's uh it's cool i we were on

51:28

a plane once we were

51:30

we phoned to la and then we were we changed planes and we were going to hawaii

51:33

for like a corporate

51:34

gig or something and i was with my tour manager and he was sitting across the

51:37

aisle i'm on the window

51:38

seat over here and this guy i wasn't looking i was looking out the window out

51:42

of the corner of my eye

51:43

this really tall guy comes and puts some stuff on the seat and then goes up to

51:46

the bathroom and i

51:47

turn back around he's walking away and i see tom my tour manager he's like mick

51:52

fleetwood i think that's

51:53

mick fleetwood wow really and i was i got really nervous i thought oh it's

51:58

gonna be really

51:58

uncomfortable i got a five-hour flight ahead of me i'm not gonna know what to

52:02

say uh i don't i don't

52:03

know what to do this is really weird you know i get i get kind of anxious about

52:06

that i'm not

52:07

really very good at talking to my idols at all um and the he comes back from

52:13

the bathroom and you

52:13

know as he's walking up it's it's mick fleetwood you know wow and he comes back

52:18

he picks his stuff

52:19

up off things adam hello it's like mick he goes no i'm adam he goes i know

52:26

hello i said how are you and

52:29

he sat down and then he told me stories for four hours it was awesome wow he

52:34

told me history of

52:35

fleetwood mac stories talked about like it was like a class in rock and roll

52:39

history it was the coolest

52:41

flight of my life he was just so nice and he the next day he uh we exchanged

52:47

phone numbers

52:49

he came to our show at this corporate show i remember because uh like whoever

52:53

was at this company joe tory's

52:55

uh daughter worked at the company to tour the comic no joe tory uh the yankee

53:00

manager oh and so he he

53:02

came to like because his daughter loved us and he brought her because he was

53:05

involved with the

53:06

company or something and but mick fleetwood and joe tory came backstage after

53:10

us and then mick just

53:10

went to the bar with us and hung out at the hotel and talked to the other guy

53:14

because i really my guitar

53:16

player emmer is just a massive early fleetwood mac fan peter green uh and it's

53:20

his favorite song you

53:22

know and like so he was going to flip out and he wasn't there with us and i

53:24

really wanted him to meet

53:25

mick you know and it was just like he still texts me to this day you know just

53:30

hope happy birthday or

53:31

merry christmas just wanted to say hi you know wow it's been about 10 years now

53:34

and it was just like

53:34

it was the great i mean just have like he knew who i was and he spent the

53:39

flight chatting and telling

53:41

me stories about rock and roll and shit it was awesome you know that's amazing

53:46

because i'm not really

53:47

good in those situations i i have fled from people that i love you know i i

53:52

just been panic oh it's

53:55

it's springsteen i've known him forever he's the nicest guy on earth and like i

54:01

used to take my

54:03

godson to school when i was still making my first album so i hadn't even made

54:06

it yet i had met bruce

54:07

because we played this rock and roll hall of fame thing and his son went to the

54:10

same school they were

54:11

kids you know young kids they ate something then four maybe younger and so i

54:16

would see him every day

54:17

at school and he would always come and talk to me and say hi and just couldn't

54:21

make sentences

54:23

it was so bad you know the the he's doing a podcast now with obama i heard i

54:31

wonder how it is he's that

54:33

show of his that broadway show was so cool and he like told such great stories

54:38

i mean it was i don't

54:39

imagine the podcast can possibly be good unfortunately i don't know i just feel

54:45

like they would be so

54:49

restricted in the way the community i think if you here let me phrase this

54:54

better if bruce springsteen

54:56

could be himself and obama could be himself and you could just put a camera on

55:01

it and just let them

55:03

shoot the shit i think it'd be amazing because obama can be really funny oh he's

55:07

brilliant yeah he's a

55:08

brilliant guy yeah but i can't imagine that if they're doing something and they're

55:13

recording it

55:14

that they're not acutely aware of how many people are paying attention and acutely

55:19

aware of like

55:21

getting the right message across and saying things like part of podcasting is

55:27

being irresponsible

55:28

like you're just talking you know and you don't even exactly know what you're

55:34

going to say

55:35

like right now i have no idea what the next word out of my mouth is there's

55:38

nothing prepared there's

55:39

nothing like it when you think you're having you're thinking out loud and for

55:44

hours right

55:45

yeah i thought of that yeah i'm sorry i didn't mean to interrupt you go ahead

55:48

no it's okay but if

55:49

you're a president i mean you're a distinguished statesman one of the greatest

55:52

presidents we've ever

55:54

had and one of the most historically important presidents we've ever had first

55:58

african-american

55:59

president we've ever had and all one of the all-time greatest speakers ever

56:05

right so he has this legacy

56:07

and then you're hanging out with bruce springsteen who's also this like

56:11

incredibly well-spoken brilliant

56:15

songwriter iconic american musician hero and the two of them together there's

56:21

so much the weight of the

56:23

eyes upon them is so heavy i would imagine it would be very difficult to just

56:27

shoot the but if you could

56:29

get them like a little buzzed just a couple of shots of tequila just just let's

56:35

just talk man

56:37

like just to just to hear them talk for real would be amazing i just don't know

56:42

if you could ever do

56:43

that i i when i saw the podcast i'm like well there's definitely camera people

56:46

there there's definitely

56:48

like sound people there like one of the best things about this place is it's

56:53

just us and jamie there's no

56:55

one in here and so it feels like it's just us and jamie but i've done other

56:58

people's podcasts before

57:00

and i'm like why are there so many people here like bill simmons who's great he's

57:05

got but i did his hbo

57:06

podcast what was it was a show yeah yeah i'm like dude you have a hundred

57:10

employees why is there a hundred

57:12

people here well the nice thing about this is you don't necessarily need that

57:15

you can do everything

57:15

you want i assume they partake of the wonders of editing you know like they

57:19

feel comfortable but

57:21

but you're right i don't know what it is i don't know what it is but with all

57:24

those people it makes

57:25

it very hard to just be two dudes talking well that's something i mean i

57:29

definitely had to i i thought

57:32

that to myself coming in here well you know this is three hours of unedited so

57:37

you know don't

57:38

fuck your life up so don't fuck it up sort of but also like you know live with

57:42

it you know because

57:43

it's you're gonna have three hours like you know when we do our podcast me and

57:46

my friend james you

57:47

know i definitely take stuff out of it at times that you know i there are

57:50

things i've been really

57:51

careful what is it called it's called underwater sunshine we just kind of geek

57:54

out about music

57:55

i like the name do you have a t-shirt

57:56

i don't have them here i'll get you one get me one i'll wear an underwater

58:02

sunshine t-shirt i like

58:03

the name it's the name of one of the records we made we did a bunch of rec we

58:06

did us a record of

58:07

literally the most obscure covers record ever made like oh yeah nothing on

58:11

there that anybody

58:11

know there's a couple songs you people would know but basically we just picked

58:15

all songs by friends

58:16

of ours that were really good songs but the shit no one knew and uh and then we

58:19

have a festival

58:20

called underwater sunshine too where we just do like it's independent artist it's

58:23

totally free for a

58:24

couple days in new york usually oh that's cool um it's we're gonna expand it a

58:27

little bit this year

58:29

um but uh we were expanding it last year when this whole thing happened landed

58:33

on us uh yeah but yeah i mean

58:35

coming in here it's definitely a thought like okay well it's three hours of unedited

58:39

talking try not to like

58:41

like i try and be really careful about you know i don't i will talk about

58:45

things i love i love to

58:46

talk about things i love i just want to geek out on music i love and i love all

58:49

day long i don't want

58:50

to talk about stuff i don't like because they it's not going to turn anybody on

58:54

to anything right and

58:55

you know i know everybody's got a sister you know i know my sister doesn't like

58:58

reading about me that

58:59

somebody says that's just horrible you know so i kind of try and avoid that

59:03

stuff just because

59:05

yeah it's a trial and error you learn to avoid negativity it's just generally

59:09

not worth it unless

59:10

there's a real point to be made yeah you have to like really express something

59:14

because it's actually

59:16

important but for the most part it's easy too it's really easy to on somebody

59:20

and like i don't know

59:21

and it's very profitable yeah it certainly is that it's very it's very popular

59:27

yeah love when people

59:28

shit on people it is funny that's part of the problem as well it's funny it's

59:35

the amazing thing

59:36

about what jeff's done in the last like decade or so is making this thing uh

59:41

not personal to turn

59:44

the roasting into something that's like back like what it used to be when we

59:47

watched dean martin when

59:48

we were kids you know like it's funny it's insulting it's not about like

59:51

getting the world to think you're

59:53

a piece of right it's about i'm making up a joke about how you're a piece of

59:56

right now and he's done

59:58

it without anybody really somehow he just makes it work without causing a huge

1:00:02

uproar there's no you

1:00:03

know even the bull some it's not even a uproar about like i don't know why he's

1:00:08

managed to pull

1:00:09

it off in a way that's good-hearted enough that yeah i'm not sure how he's

1:00:13

managed it because that's

1:00:14

actually who he is yeah so what he expresses on stage is how he is and also it's

1:00:20

kind of how comics talk

1:00:22

to each other anyway we always talk to each other but it's with love it's funny

1:00:27

like if someone shits

1:00:28

on your clothes or shits on your face or shits on your your head or shits on

1:00:32

whatever it is it's

1:00:34

like we're all laughing along with it it's like it's an honor to get roasted by

1:00:39

jeff ross or you know

1:00:41

any really good roaster it's just and jeff is because of his love of like old

1:00:47

comedy culture like the

1:00:49

friars club and that kind of stuff he he always loved that like when we were in

1:00:54

our 20s he'd be

1:00:55

like i'm gonna go to the friars club i'm like what the are you doing you're in

1:00:58

your 20s like we're not

1:01:00

old dead men like in my mind i'm like why are you going to the friars club he

1:01:03

wanted to hook up he

1:01:04

wanted to hang out with don rickles he wanted to pick his brain and like you

1:01:07

know because he's got that

1:01:08

wrickles i get it now i get it now but back then i was a brazen and yeah i didn't

1:01:15

yeah when i was in

1:01:16

my 20s i was a different human being i didn't understand traditions and all

1:01:21

that stuff i was like

1:01:22

the fuck out of here with these old dead men hanging out cracking jokes with

1:01:25

each other in wheelchairs

1:01:26

i just i just thought of the friars club as being this thing but i didn't know

1:01:30

what it was it was

1:01:31

totally out of ignorance i'd never been there before and then i realized as i

1:01:34

got older oh it's

1:01:35

like a camaraderie thing like these comics would get together and they had a

1:01:38

place where they could

1:01:39

hang out and then uh greg fitzsimmons had gone there and he told me he'd go

1:01:43

there and play pool

1:01:44

and hang out with these guys he's like it was just a fun hang with a bunch of

1:01:48

guys who were just cracking

1:01:49

on each other all the time i was like oh okay yeah i mean there's nothing like

1:01:53

that for us for music

1:01:55

you know like i he took me there is where you guys hang not really i mean there

1:02:00

was at one point you

1:02:01

know i bartended the viper room for years did you really yeah well that's how i

1:02:06

ended up moving to la

1:02:08

i was uh i was home it was getting really miserable in berkeley i'd been home

1:02:12

for about a week from the

1:02:14

end of touring uh everywhere i went it was an issue not you know mostly

1:02:18

positive but still it's like

1:02:20

you feel like everybody's looking at you there are kids camped out on my lawn a

1:02:22

couple days a bunch of

1:02:26

days in a row at least one like 100 people come up to me a day but one of them

1:02:30

was like hey are you

1:02:31

that guy from county coast yeah you're adam duritz yeah you guys are so lucky

1:02:35

thank you i mean because

1:02:36

you suck and there's so many good bands in the bay area it's wild that a band

1:02:41

as shitty as you would

1:02:42

be so successful to your face yeah i was just like it happened like four or

1:02:46

five days in a row i mean

1:02:48

it was dwarfed by the amount of people that were coming up just loving the band

1:02:51

but still it was

1:02:51

like it started to feel like if there's gonna be one of these every day is one

1:02:55

of them gonna have a

1:02:56

gun you know is like is this mark david chapman is like it seems such a weird

1:03:00

obsession to walk up to

1:03:02

a total stranger in the line for a bank you know and just say something like

1:03:06

that yeah like and it was so

1:03:08

weird uh but we like we got really famous really quickly and uh i was the only

1:03:14

people i knew in la

1:03:16

really were people at the viper and i'd met a few of them playing across the

1:03:19

street at the whiskey on

1:03:20

the first tours and uh so i i was went home that day i'd been home for i think

1:03:25

seven days and it happened

1:03:27

like six of those seven days and uh i got a phone call and it was it was sal

1:03:32

and johnny sal janka who

1:03:33

ran the viper and he's johnny depp's partner and they called me up and they're

1:03:37

like hey we want to

1:03:37

invite you to this party tonight and i was like kind of half in half out i wasn't

1:03:41

really listening and

1:03:42

and finally they're like wait what's going on man and i told them what was

1:03:45

happening and they're like

1:03:46

okay hang on i can put you on hold i sat there on the phone i know what was

1:03:50

going on they came back and

1:03:51

they said okay it's it's kate moss's 21st birthday tonight and we're throwing a

1:03:55

party here the club's

1:03:56

closed we're just throwing a party for friends we wanted to invite you we got

1:03:59

you a room at the

1:04:00

bellage and you have a reservation on the flight at six o'clock oakland to burbank

1:04:05

just get on it

1:04:06

someone will pick you up at the airport you've got a room at the bellage get

1:04:10

the fuck out of there

1:04:11

so i like grabbed my stuff went to the airport went to this party at the viper

1:04:16

with just like

1:04:17

interesting people and i was like i didn't go home again that was it i moved to

1:04:21

la after that

1:04:22

it was uh i did i stayed at the bellage for a few days i moved to like a bungalow

1:04:26

at the

1:04:27

sunset marquee and then eventually uh i rented this house in the hills one the

1:04:31

one of the bartenders

1:04:32

shannon mcmanis at the viper her best friend was christine applegate and she

1:04:36

was my landlord she

1:04:37

rented me this old like she had this place it was like a a little cottage in

1:04:42

laurel canyon and it

1:04:44

turned out it was built by the cowboy star tom mix in the 20s and then it was

1:04:48

david niven's like

1:04:50

in-town fuck pad and he named it rogues retreat when there was a little sign up

1:04:53

there after this tv

1:04:54

show he was on called the rogues in like the 60s uh and then i don't know i i

1:04:58

think it was the i don't

1:05:00

know what it was after that but she owned it and i stayed there i wrote most of

1:05:02

our second record in

1:05:03

that place before i bought a place but yeah man the viper room for a couple

1:05:06

years there i

1:05:07

i bartended all the time because it was just less crowded on that side of the

1:05:10

bar

1:05:11

my friends all worked there so i was be there anyways hanging out with them and

1:05:16

after a while

1:05:17

bartended while you were a rock star oh yeah huge rock at the height of it wow

1:05:22

like uh because i well

1:05:23

i was back there and i'd be hanging out with shannon smoking a cigarette

1:05:26

drinking beers behind the bar

1:05:28

you know in the downstairs bar there the little one and i don't know one point

1:05:32

i'd help her out with

1:05:33

stuff and at one point she's like i go to the bathroom there's nobody else will

1:05:35

you just you know

1:05:36

mind the bar and i was like yeah sure so i did it and you know i had no qualms

1:05:41

about berating people

1:05:42

for tips i'm a rock star and they're not my tips so why not so i made her so i

1:05:46

made her like a few

1:05:47

hundred dollars in the like five minutes she was gone and uh she's like you got

1:05:51

to do this all the

1:05:52

time so i just started going there i mean that's where i lived anyways i was

1:05:54

kind of there every day

1:05:55

the only people i knew so i just started bartending every night and it was like

1:06:01

my home you know it was

1:06:02

like i felt it was like the cheers thing i felt like okay there it's kind of a

1:06:06

cool way to interact

1:06:07

with people too because there is a barrier and it is less crowded over there

1:06:10

and it's probably kind of

1:06:12

fun yeah and you know you uh talk to them if you want to if you don't want to

1:06:15

you got to get a beer

1:06:16

for someone else so you know and there was just so many people it was like what

1:06:20

i thought like uh

1:06:22

the left bank would have been like in paris in the 20s i mean it was like alan

1:06:28

ginsburg coming in and

1:06:30

william burroughs the hughes brothers all these different filmmakers you know

1:06:33

musicians tom petty

1:06:35

it was just really wild gibbie haynes from the butthole surfers you know we're

1:06:39

all just hanging out

1:06:40

there wow john it was like johnny's clubhouse and we all we had barbecues on

1:06:44

sunset on sundays

1:06:45

you know and we just sort of for a few years it was this really cool like club

1:06:53

kind of wow like a

1:06:54

clubhouse it was very much like that was the negativity towards you like

1:06:59

specific to the bay area

1:07:01

well i think because that that's so unusual to me that someone would come up to

1:07:06

you in person and and

1:07:07

tell you you suck like that like that's dangerous it is and i think it's

1:07:12

because it's like unprovoked

1:07:15

yeah they're just trying to hurt your feelings so like where'd that narrative

1:07:19

come from though

1:07:19

because first of all you guys didn't suck your music was amazing i was a giant

1:07:24

fan i mean still

1:07:25

am but i mean back then i was a giant fan so like it doesn't make any sense to

1:07:29

me well i think it's

1:07:31

just you get on people's nerves you know you just do you know like just over

1:07:35

exposure it's too much and

1:07:38

but i also think san francisco in a lot of ways back then was a struggling

1:07:42

artist town

1:07:42

and so that kind of success wasn't cool you know it wasn't wasn't as well

1:07:48

regarded when i moved to l.a.

1:07:49

it was a working artist town it was really nice for me there because like all

1:07:53

anybody wanted to do you

1:07:54

you know for all the there's a lot of things about l.a. i don't like i mean a

1:07:57

ton but

1:07:58

i do like the part of it that it's like it was a working artist town people

1:08:02

just wanted to do their thing

1:08:03

and they were interested in what you were doing they wanted to show you maybe

1:08:06

what they were doing

1:08:07

but everyone was you know we were hoping each other had success and it was

1:08:11

there was nothing

1:08:12

to be jealous of everyone was doing stuff it just didn't feel like

1:08:16

i love the bay area a lot more than l.a honestly and in in years since then i've

1:08:20

loved going back home

1:08:22

but at that moment it just seemed like it annoyed the out of some people in the

1:08:29

indie rock scene i

1:08:30

came from we were a college radio indie rock band and in this club scene up

1:08:33

there and it just you got

1:08:34

too successful yeah and pretty quick and i think it probably was all over the

1:08:38

radio uh it didn't

1:08:41

happen to any of our friends uh there were a lot of other bands in the barrier

1:08:45

then you know well i

1:08:46

mean three of us did really well right at the same time primus a little bit

1:08:49

before us and then us

1:08:50

and then green day right after us you know uh but we were all actually all berkeley

1:08:54

kids east bay

1:08:55

so i don't know but it it happened for a little while and then it stopped

1:08:58

happening you know it's

1:08:59

not bad there anymore well the thing about san francisco the bay area in

1:09:03

particular is it's not a showbiz

1:09:05

culture no right it's a culture of more art and a lot of really intelligent

1:09:11

people it's it's like

1:09:13

well i lived there when i was a kid from age seven to eleven and i remember

1:09:17

thinking it was like a

1:09:19

very good place to be at the time it was a very a very fortunate place to be at

1:09:24

that age of my life

1:09:26

because i was around a lot of eclectic people a lot of interesting weird people

1:09:30

yeah you know we lived

1:09:32

in the center of it all we were right down the street from lombard street so it

1:09:35

was like yeah

1:09:36

it was and it was during the vietnam war you know so it was like it was all

1:09:39

weirdos and hippies

1:09:42

and my stepfather was a hippie so it was like it all fit in and it seemed

1:09:45

normal and then when i

1:09:46

we moved from there to florida afterwards and the contrast was so stark that i

1:09:53

it made me go like

1:09:54

wow i was really lucky to live there like that was a cool spot like people were

1:09:59

it was just

1:10:00

interesting and creative and there was a lot of music and there was a lot of

1:10:05

art it was just a

1:10:06

different place to be but it was not it's not a showbiz culture by any stretch

1:10:10

of the imagination

1:10:11

whereas like in los angeles like people celebrate overexposure they celebrate

1:10:17

overexposure and over

1:10:19

over publicized people and people that are on billboards and the cup whereas

1:10:23

like in a place

1:10:24

like san francisco that's not cool like that's all up they'd be more into like

1:10:28

going to an antique store

1:10:29

or something or well yeah and that's the thing that like i the thing that i

1:10:33

came to not like about la

1:10:35

after a number of years was the like their worship of fame being famous just

1:10:41

for being famous yes and

1:10:43

they're like sort of circular worship of fame but i what i loved about it was

1:10:47

that that that that all

1:10:49

really exists and it's annoying as fuck but it exists around a bunch of people

1:10:52

who are out there doing

1:10:53

stuff too yes you know like yeah and i thought that was really uh it's funny

1:10:57

that you came with the bay

1:10:58

area to florida we went from texas to the bay area um so it was sort of the

1:11:03

although i loved um my dad

1:11:05

was in the army during vietnam in el paso and i i loved it like to me that was

1:11:10

we lived in houston after

1:11:12

that i didn't like houston as much but the but el paso was man it was just like

1:11:16

because i think it's a

1:11:18

it's a lot of it was a lot of vacant lots and desert and bugs and snakes and

1:11:23

shit and it's also the

1:11:24

first place you know when you're a kid you like first as a kid you just do

1:11:28

stuff with your parents

1:11:30

you know what i mean and the family and then at some point you go off and do

1:11:34

something by yourself

1:11:35

with another kid you know i don't know at a certain point you get you get a

1:11:38

little off on your own and

1:11:39

that to me like i was six when i got there that's sort of the first experiences

1:11:43

i have with going

1:11:45

around with shit on my own just like vacant lots and snakes and spiders and

1:11:49

like riding my bike and uh

1:11:51

i just really remember that about el paso and really loving that um and

1:11:55

actually i don't know why

1:11:57

even the army culture which was kind of weird seemed cool uh and i just liked

1:12:03

it i like that town and

1:12:04

that it's like that's a weird town it's like right on the border it's a it's

1:12:09

kind of very much its own

1:12:10

place it's it's texas i haven't been to el paso yet i kind of love it there

1:12:14

even now we've only

1:12:16

played it was the last place i had that i'd lived that i hadn't played because

1:12:19

i grew up all over you

1:12:20

know baltimore boston el paso denver houston and then oakland and then i turned

1:12:26

10. you know like so all

1:12:28

that happened really early on and i but the last place i got to play was el

1:12:31

paso i'd hit everything else

1:12:33

um and we it was just a few years ago and we were at this club is a big open

1:12:37

air place it had like a

1:12:38

roof over it but no ends and it was right enough on the right across the river

1:12:43

from juarez somewhere

1:12:44

right on the rio grande enough so that like our phones kept switching over

1:12:47

thinking they were in

1:12:48

mexico oh wow so it was uh but i mean it was just like the food was great the

1:12:52

people were great i found

1:12:54

the house where i lived the two houses i lived when i was a kid i went with in

1:12:57

an uber with my tour manager

1:12:58

and found both of them i don't know how you know it's like 1970 this is about

1:13:02

five to ten years ago

1:13:04

and i managed to like i remembered the street names and where they were on the

1:13:08

streets from when i was

1:13:09

six seven eight years old you know found both houses which was freaking freaky

1:13:13

i couldn't believe

1:13:14

i found them that must have been a trip for the uber driver did he know who you

1:13:18

were i don't know i'm

1:13:18

not sure um but it was weird for me and tom like yeah wow can you can you

1:13:23

imagine just finding some

1:13:24

house you lived in when you were six when you're 50 you know it's really wild

1:13:29

yeah that is wild i went

1:13:30

back to the house that i went to high school with um recently where was that uh

1:13:35

newton newton massachusetts

1:13:37

oh yeah yeah uh i i was uh wandering around that area and you know it just

1:13:43

seemed familiar but yet

1:13:46

different you know because like your memory is kind of shitty like you you know

1:13:51

if you had to draw a

1:13:53

picture of what the street looked like from your memory be like uh okay i think

1:13:57

there was like a tree

1:13:58

here like here's the arch of the bridge uh and um randomly like a year or two

1:14:06

later i'm doing a gig

1:14:08

at the wilbur theater in boston and i'm eating with one of my high school

1:14:12

buddies at a restaurant and this

1:14:14

lady comes up to me and she goes i live in the house where you grew up and i'm

1:14:19

like what and i took

1:14:21

a picture with her like it's just but it was like we're i'm here smiling with

1:14:25

some lady who lives in

1:14:27

my old house and she lived yeah and i'd just been there just like a couple

1:14:31

years before with my family

1:14:33

wandering around but i remember thinking like so odd so odd when you just try

1:14:38

to piece together that weird

1:14:41

blurry slideshow of a memory and then you see the actual place vividly and

1:14:46

everything looks so much

1:14:47

smaller than you remember and it's just it's strange yeah because you're bigger

1:14:53

that's the

1:14:53

weird thing i mean because we do like especially those kid memories of that was

1:14:57

the thing because

1:14:58

i like that's how i found the first that one of them i'm sure i found the other

1:15:01

one i'm not sure

1:15:02

because i it was in the middle of a street so i wasn't sure but one of them i

1:15:05

knew was on a corner

1:15:06

and it had a big stone wall on one side of the street uh and then the driveway

1:15:12

on the other street

1:15:13

and i remember thinking that i could find it because that stone wall it was i

1:15:16

used to climb

1:15:17

it when i was a kid and you know when i saw that now you know it's like this

1:15:21

high right so but it was

1:15:23

to me it was in my memory it's eight or ten feet high because i used to climb

1:15:27

it and climb down it

1:15:28

uh and there was like a i don't i don't i climbed down i don't know i i

1:15:32

remember being big enough

1:15:34

that i had to climb down onto a mailbox and then jump down to the street but it's

1:15:37

not a lot bigger

1:15:37

than a mailbox so i'm not sure why that would have worked but you know it's

1:15:42

like i was six you know

1:15:43

i was a small kid so it's just it was weird finding that because the everything

1:15:48

changes you know

1:15:49

that the thing we were talking about we were talking about going to la and the

1:15:53

the showbiz culture

1:15:54

and the culture of fame and all that stuff is there the real i i was just

1:15:58

having a conversation with

1:15:59

a friend of mine about la the real thing that gets tainted is not necessarily

1:16:04

the people that just

1:16:06

happen to be famous the artists that are doing things it's that there's a whole

1:16:11

swarm of people

1:16:14

that are trying to figure out a way how to get into that walled garden yeah and

1:16:19

they're bartending

1:16:20

and they're waitressing and they're delivering uber eats and they're doing all

1:16:24

these different things

1:16:26

so there's like uh there's an anxiety of of just there's there's like a feeling

1:16:33

of all these people

1:16:34

that desperately want in and they're all hovering around this area and it

1:16:40

changes the whole vibe of

1:16:42

the town when you go to a place that doesn't have that and it's one of the

1:16:45

things that i love about

1:16:46

austin it does not have that the feeling is different yeah like the feeling

1:16:51

when you're around people

1:16:53

they're different there's and the people there's people in la they don't even

1:16:58

admit that they wanted

1:16:59

to be famous they just gave up on the dream they came out there for a very

1:17:03

specific they wanted to be

1:17:04

an actor or whatever it is and then it didn't work out and they became an

1:17:07

architect or whatever whatever

1:17:08

it is but they wanted to be famous and and then they want to meet people who

1:17:13

are famous and then become

1:17:15

friends with those people so they can get and hang out with famous people so at

1:17:18

least they kind of get

1:17:19

the rub and it's weird man it's yeah it's a weird culture it's like there's a

1:17:25

shallowness to it but yet

1:17:28

some of the most interesting creative and deep people live amongst that shallowness

1:17:34

so you have all these

1:17:35

like really intense artists that are surrounded by all these very strange

1:17:43

people that are trying to

1:17:44

figure out how they can get on the cover of rolling stone but it's interesting

1:17:48

because i what you're

1:17:50

talking about it was one of the things that turned me off when i finally left

1:17:53

because you're right

1:17:55

everybody even people who do impressive things and are successful only want to

1:18:00

talk to you in conversation

1:18:01

about the produce the movie producer they had a meeting with last week you can

1:18:05

be a very successful

1:18:06

lawyer or uh in in finance you can be doing something very impressive in

1:18:10

another field

1:18:11

and you still just they aren't going to talk to you about being a doctor they

1:18:14

just want to talk to you

1:18:15

about the meeting they had for a pitch idea but i do think there's a flip side

1:18:19

to that too that i

1:18:20

did find kind of magical about being there which is that so much of culture is

1:18:25

about

1:18:27

uh i was born here i grew up here around all these same people and uh we're all

1:18:33

going to do this thing

1:18:34

here too and there's a certain amount to which la is about like it's a bunch of

1:18:38

people who all decided

1:18:41

they didn't want to do what everyone else in their high school did whether it's

1:18:44

to be you know a poet or

1:18:46

a sculptor or a painter or a or a musician or an actor or or a model but it's

1:18:52

still like i can't i

1:18:54

don't want to stay here and just do this thing i'm going to go over there yeah

1:18:57

and i'm going to go

1:18:58

like like it and there's a certain pioneer aesthetic about doing that the

1:19:02

problem is if you get there

1:19:04

and then it just becomes about famous and famous and as opposed to i i i dig

1:19:08

the part of it that is

1:19:09

like i got a dream and i'm going to go i'm willing to go all the way over there

1:19:12

to get it and to do it

1:19:14

i love that i felt like i had that in common with all those people but then

1:19:18

there's a side of it

1:19:20

you're talking about where it a you lose what you came there for originally and

1:19:23

it just becomes about

1:19:24

chasing fame and success as opposed to doing anything for it um that got really

1:19:29

annoying right after the

1:19:31

millennium when the a lot of the reality tv stuff started to become bigger and

1:19:35

bigger and suddenly it's

1:19:36

just like fame for fame fame for fame's sake it's nothing about doing anything

1:19:40

and that was when

1:19:41

i started to get i lost my taste for la i really charted to about the millennium

1:19:46

and realizing it

1:19:47

was like a year after that we had these birthday parties every year and i used

1:19:51

to love them and having

1:19:52

everybody come up and for years we had these big parties on friday night where

1:19:55

just everybody would

1:19:56

come to my house on fridays you know just like a huge party um but i remember

1:20:00

thinking i don't want to

1:20:01

have anybody over anymore i'm just like i don't want to be here anymore and

1:20:06

then like i had been

1:20:07

spending a lot of time in in new york visiting friends and i had a lot of

1:20:11

friends here from from

1:20:13

years before and uh do you know mary louise parker is no i know she is yeah so

1:20:18

her and i met when we

1:20:20

were kids like she had just done her gotten out of college done her first movie

1:20:23

i was in my first band

1:20:24

uh she was out doing a play in berkeley at berkeley rep and we became friends i

1:20:29

had a huge crush on her

1:20:30

um but we became friends this is like 1980 so 89 87 88 something like that and

1:20:36

so we've been friends

1:20:37

ever since then so i would go in new york and i would visit her and her

1:20:39

boyfriend and we'd go see

1:20:41

plays all the time and i thought i was really liking liking life in new york

1:20:46

and i went me and billy

1:20:47

crudup who was then her boyfriend um we went to see this play called private

1:20:52

lives it's a noel coward

1:20:53

play and starred alan rickman and lindsey duncan and after the play billy took

1:20:58

me backstage and we

1:20:59

ended up going out that night without having some drinks and hanging out for

1:21:03

the rest of the evening

1:21:04

with alan rickman and lindsey duncan you know and it was just so great like the

1:21:09

whole experience and i

1:21:11

felt it felt i don't know way a lot more growing up kind of i don't know i just

1:21:16

felt like

1:21:16

i had been having conversations with like people from the real world and now i

1:21:24

was having conversation

1:21:25

with alan rickman and lindsey duncan and i really liked it and i thought i

1:21:31

think i got to get out of

1:21:32

la i think i think i would like to like have these conversations more and like

1:21:38

yeah i'd like to go i

1:21:39

like i realized how much i liked going to the theater just because it was a lot

1:21:42

like it was

1:21:42

closer to what i do you know like going on stage and doing it live every night

1:21:47

you know and i i just

1:21:48

like i wanted to get the hell out of la at that and i had really appreciated it

1:21:53

up until about the

1:21:54

millennium like i had appreciated all the people that were creative um and how

1:21:59

much variety of it there

1:22:00

was i really liked all that but it just something happened after the millennium

1:22:05

where i just got really

1:22:07

burned out on it i think you met you nailed it with the comment about the

1:22:11

reality shows because that

1:22:14

clearly changed the culture of the city because now people realized you didn't

1:22:17

really have to be

1:22:18

talented you just had to demand attention yeah and there's a lot of people that

1:22:23

are doing that now

1:22:24

whether it's tick tock or you know a lot of these uh youtube stars and things

1:22:29

along those lines they're

1:22:30

they don't really necessarily have a talent they just either stir up a lot of

1:22:35

shit cause arguments with people do pranks whatever they can do to get

1:22:40

attention so it's not the same

1:22:42

vibe right it's not about someone who's just trying to create great music or

1:22:45

someone who's trying to

1:22:46

make good movies or whatever it is you're trying to do it's now become a

1:22:50

culture of attention and fame

1:22:53

and that's that's la now i mean la is like a lot of these great restaurants and

1:22:57

bars they're tick tock

1:22:59

places now you know that no yeah what do you mean like people go there because

1:23:04

tick tock stars go there

1:23:07

so like what is that place on sunset saddle ranch saddle ranch i remember that

1:23:12

place is a tick tock

1:23:14

place now like tick tock stars go there and everybody goes there to see tick tock

1:23:19

stars is it even open

1:23:21

now yeah they're allowed to be open fully open i haven't been there i don't

1:23:24

know you go there every

1:23:25

goddamn chance he's a tick tock fiend look at him just kidding just kidding but

1:23:31

that's a thing like uh

1:23:32

boa is a big steakhouse on sunset yeah and it's infested with tick tock people

1:23:38

i've only been there once with why you laughing the steak was great yeah i mean

1:23:45

am i right about

1:23:46

this yeah i mean it's always been infested probably that maybe like uh

1:23:49

different sections have been

1:23:50

infested with young people they're just like listen when i say infested maybe

1:23:53

that's the wrong word

1:23:54

it could be infested by rock stars now it's infested by tick tock people it's

1:23:59

like it becomes the

1:24:00

culture right there you aren't wrong that like the way in early 2000s kids

1:24:04

would flock to the front of

1:24:06

mtv to maybe get a glimpse at some music video star right they're standing out

1:24:10

in front of salary it's

1:24:12

not going there they're just like taking their phones to take pictures with

1:24:15

them that's the weirdest

1:24:16

thing to me because i remember that at trl you know all that crowd in front of

1:24:19

trl on by the way

1:24:20

but like that's a weird thing you know i you were talking about early on about

1:24:25

being awkward in

1:24:26

front of things i've never felt as i already felt too old the first time we

1:24:31

were on trl how old were

1:24:33

you i mean i had to be 30 something so i was too old but like i i became a rock

1:24:38

star at 29 or 30. i

1:24:39

mean i left put my first record out at 30. how old are you now? 56. um yeah so

1:24:45

i'm you know i'm just

1:24:47

inches away from death but the first the very first time we were on trl and you

1:24:53

know everyone

1:24:54

was really nice but i felt like i felt weird like i felt weird and old and out

1:24:58

of place and like over

1:24:59

the hill already you know like and i don't think i don't think it existed for

1:25:02

our first couple albums

1:25:04

but it was sometime around the third then i was like well we are past our sell-by

1:25:08

date which is like

1:25:09

it's 1999 so it's been 22 years and we're still here so that's that's that's

1:25:13

pretty good you know

1:25:14

no that's very good when you first made it what was it like to go from just

1:25:20

being a guy in a band

1:25:22

to all of a sudden holy shit it's the guy from counting crows holy shit it's

1:25:30

that dude that was

1:25:32

fucking weird for me because i was really shy you know and i i had you know i

1:25:36

have dissociative

1:25:38

disorder which is not dissociative identity disorder that's what does that mean

1:25:40

that split personality

1:25:41

well dissociative disorder is like it's that you don't quite it's hard to

1:25:46

describe it you don't

1:25:47

quite connect with the world and you feel a little bit like you're at the back

1:25:50

of your head watching

1:25:52

things as they happen watching everybody yeah maybe not to the extent don't

1:25:57

tell me my mental illness

1:25:58

is something everybody has um i don't know no i mean i think it is to a certain

1:26:03

extent but it

1:26:03

definitely kept me at a distance from things and i always felt a little awkward

1:26:06

how did you get

1:26:07

diagnosed like how do you how does that get well you have to describe the

1:26:10

issues that you're having

1:26:11

and then the psychologist sort of explains it i don't think i really got it

1:26:15

diagnosed till i was almost

1:26:16

40 because they'd been diagnosed as different things they thought i was kind of

1:26:19

bipolar at times i was

1:26:20

medicated for a lot of different shit really um yeah which is not pleasant

1:26:25

during the stardom

1:26:26

period you were medicated oh yeah did you get medicated after stardom no before

1:26:30

before i just

1:26:31

didn't want to tell anybody about it because you don't want to be a public

1:26:34

spectacle while you're

1:26:36

going downhill bro you know what i mean like that no matter how much sympathy

1:26:39

people pretend to to

1:26:40

offer we love to watch trains collide did you feel like fame exacerbated your

1:26:47

issues well yeah because

1:26:49

i was very anxious and very shy and all of a sudden and very awkward in company

1:26:55

with people and then all

1:26:57

of a sudden everyone in the world is coming up to me and it felt like it felt

1:27:01

like claustrophobic like

1:27:03

the world is just pressing on you all the time you know i remember when we got

1:27:06

offered the cover of

1:27:07

rolling stone and i i told my manager i wanted to think about it you know for a

1:27:11

day because you know and of

1:27:13

course you're never going to say no to the cover of rolling stone it is if you

1:27:16

want to have a career and you get

1:27:17

off the cover of rolling stone you should do it because that's that's a career

1:27:20

maker right there

1:27:21

you know but i also i mean it's not like this nowadays because there are no

1:27:25

news stands really or very

1:27:26

few but remember like having your picture on the cover of a magazine like that

1:27:30

meant that you were

1:27:31

like omnipresent you're everywhere on every street corner everyone your face

1:27:35

was everywhere so like any

1:27:36

sort of anonymity is is gone i mean it scared me it really it did it scared the

1:27:42

out of me um

1:27:43

but you know you got to do that stuff so i mean i struggled with it at first it

1:27:48

was really different

1:27:49

people chase you down the street um i remember going to a movie in birmingham

1:27:54

and by myself in

1:27:55

the middle of the afternoon just went to see some movie it was a block or two

1:27:58

from our hotel

1:27:59

just a matinee you know on a day off and i'm in there there's no one in the

1:28:04

theater it's like one

1:28:05

of those multiplex so there's no one in there the one i was in and then like

1:28:08

midway through the movie

1:28:09

this guy comes down sits next to me like the middle of theater he's like hey

1:28:16

hey he's like

1:28:17

are you in county crows i said yeah and he goes i love your band do you mind if

1:28:22

i sit here and i said

1:28:24

you know i'm kind of just trying to have some time to myself he goes okay gets

1:28:28

up walks out walks out

1:28:30

of the theater doesn't sit down in the theater just walks out and i'm watching

1:28:33

the rest of the movie

1:28:34

it gets right right at the end of the movie guy comes in again walks down a

1:28:38

mile sits next to me

1:28:40

and i was like god damn it and i turn but it's a different guy and he's wearing

1:28:43

the uniform from

1:28:44

the place and he's like hey i'm sorry to bother you but uh the kid came in here

1:28:48

earlier i said yeah

1:28:49

he said well he's been out in the lobby for the last hour on the payphone

1:28:53

calling everyone he

1:28:54

knows i guess because he's been on the phone the whole time there's like a

1:28:57

hundred people out front

1:28:59

now i was just like he goes there's a if you want to go out that exit that

1:29:03

takes you out the side of

1:29:04

the building you can sneak out i was like thank you i went down and ran and

1:29:09

they i was around the side

1:29:10

of the building so i was a good block away before they spotted me and then they

1:29:13

all came charging

1:29:14

after me i made it to the hotel it's like some beetle shit so i know it was

1:29:18

weird like it was it

1:29:19

was like beetle mania you know and it just you don't expect that and it was a

1:29:23

lot to deal with

1:29:25

for for me i just kind of freaked me out um you know but you get i've said the

1:29:29

same quote a million

1:29:30

times but like if you woke up on mars it would take you a minute to get used to

1:29:32

the gravity but you

1:29:33

do you know you adjust right you know and i adjusted but at first i was like i

1:29:38

was a mess you

1:29:39

know yeah i didn't know what to do about it so were you did they have you on

1:29:43

medication before

1:29:44

all of this happened oh yeah yeah what kind of were you on i don't remember now

1:29:48

i mean it's

1:29:48

such a long time ago i was talking to a friend this morning because her son is

1:29:53

uh taking uh lamictal

1:29:55

and what is lamictal it's like a drug for anxiety or depression i don't

1:29:59

remember now but i used to have

1:30:01

to take it and it didn't work for me there's a different formulation for the

1:30:04

chewable one that they

1:30:05

gave to kids than the swallowable one that they gave to adults and the chewable

1:30:09

one only came in

1:30:10

like two milligrams and i had an ever increasing dosage you know like 10 20 40

1:30:15

100 milligrams so

1:30:16

did it like stop working is that why they kept increasing your dosage well they

1:30:19

just generally

1:30:20

do to get you on a drug they start you small and then ramp you up more yeah so

1:30:24

but because the only

1:30:25

formulation that worked for me weirdly enough was the chewable one which comes

1:30:28

in like two milligram

1:30:29

package uh pills um i had to take the chewable kind because there's sometimes

1:30:34

the formulations are

1:30:36

different you know in the different kinds of ways they package up drugs and so

1:30:39

something in the other

1:30:40

version didn't work for me so i had to keep taking the chewable one so at one

1:30:42

point i was taking like

1:30:43

25 of them you get 50 milligrams and it's like 25 these little can you imagine

1:30:48

taking like 50 or 25

1:30:50

different flintstones vitamins every morning and you just like jesus christ all

1:30:54

the liquid in your mouth

1:30:55

just gets sucked out and it becomes this paste you're trying to choose these

1:31:00

pills like that's sort

1:31:01

of the slightly sweet orange flavor of chewable pills you know like i just i

1:31:06

she reminded me of this

1:31:08

morning and i just thought oh my god i forgot all about that like every morning

1:31:13

taking like 25 of these

1:31:14

pills and chewing them up and the just the paste in my mouth for the just this

1:31:20

horrible it's on top of

1:31:21

everything else that's going on you have this experience every morning this

1:31:25

trauma-inducing

1:31:26

paste in your mouth experience you know i called it happy paste you know just

1:31:30

but it was just

1:31:30

so fucking gross on top of everything else and you you must have had to have

1:31:36

cases of that stuff if

1:31:37

you're eating so much every morning yeah it was weird so how'd you bring it in

1:31:41

like a suitcase everywhere

1:31:42

because if you're taking 25 pills every morning is that what you're taking yeah

1:31:46

they're real little so you

1:31:47

can get a bunch of them but yeah it took like four pill bottles each dosage you

1:31:50

know to get you through

1:31:51

i mean eventually they took me off and it wasn't the right medication and it

1:31:53

was impossible trying to

1:31:54

fucking chew up all this shit the chewer why would the chewable ones work and

1:31:59

the other ones didn't work

1:32:00

i don't know it's you know sometimes the way you know there can be slight

1:32:04

differences between generic

1:32:05

versions and regular versions of drugs where like just the formulation's a

1:32:08

little different i don't know

1:32:10

but the the chewable form of it worked and the other one didn't and wow it that

1:32:14

was a long time

1:32:15

for you what did the chewable stuff do for you i don't remember what it was for

1:32:18

i guess it's for

1:32:19

anxiety or depression and you know like when something alleviates anxiety what

1:32:23

is the feeling

1:32:24

the what what how does it alleviate it what does it do for you well sometimes

1:32:29

for me with especially

1:32:30

when it first came on when i was like 20 uh the dissociation was like uh being

1:32:36

on acid you know when

1:32:37

you get higher on acid and everything looks a little different just a little

1:32:40

weird feeling

1:32:41

that's what it was like i spent like between 20 and 22 on a like a year and a

1:32:47

half two year acid

1:32:49

trip at one point when i was young which was really shattering way before my

1:32:52

career um but for me like

1:32:55

i didn't talk about this in my career until like 2007 we were making saturday

1:32:59

nights and sunday mornings

1:33:00

because even though i was kind of a mess saturday nights was like the bottom of

1:33:04

the bottom for me and

1:33:05

i really felt like i was falling apart but the sunday mornings was kind of

1:33:09

about getting my

1:33:10

life together after that and it wasn't fixed but i felt like i was not sliding

1:33:15

down the drain anymore

1:33:16

and that felt like a time where it was safe to talk about mental illness you

1:33:20

know kind of like i don't

1:33:22

it's not my mission in life i don't i'm not a role model for anybody but you

1:33:25

know i just had avoided

1:33:27

talking about it because i didn't want to be a public spectacle um while a lot

1:33:31

of was going on in my life

1:33:33

uh and that's what i was writing about i just didn't say it you know but i don't

1:33:38

know it's like

1:33:40

mental illness is a weird thing it's not like you know diseases most of the

1:33:44

things that happen in your

1:33:46

life you're gonna get cured of it you know it's it's a problem it has a cure

1:33:50

and then you it sucks

1:33:52

and then you go back to normal you know right or you know i guess or you die

1:33:55

but some most of the

1:33:56

time we expect to go back to normal but it's closer to a handicap mental

1:34:00

illness doesn't go

1:34:01

away it's just like you learn well you get the right medication it feels but

1:34:05

then you get a handle

1:34:06

on how to live with being a little different and you get it's just something

1:34:10

you carry around with

1:34:11

you and you've got to learn how to carry that weight just because that's your

1:34:15

life and it's different you

1:34:17

know it's a good crucible for things in some ways i mean you do get some

1:34:20

determination which is

1:34:21

as it turns out a pretty necessary part of this kind of job um you know i went

1:34:27

through two years

1:34:29

of feeling like i was on acid other things aren't as scary to me anymore you

1:34:33

know like quite honestly

1:34:35

you know stage fright's just not an issue right you know so you know it's just

1:34:39

like that but it

1:34:40

doesn't seem like stage fright was the issue anyway no it wasn't but i mean it's

1:34:44

not the general public

1:34:45

stuff was the issue more more fame the pressure the criticism the craziness but

1:34:49

maybe that's why

1:34:51

stage fright wasn't an issue by the time it came around because i had been

1:34:53

through other stuff like

1:34:54

i mean in my first band the as an adult you know so i was like 25 26 maybe for

1:35:02

the first three gigs

1:35:04

i woke up each morning i remember this like our first one was at a street fair

1:35:08

in berkeley the solano

1:35:09

stroll second one was at a club called the omni the third one was at a club

1:35:12

called the hill

1:35:13

our first three gigs as a band i woke up each day of those gigs uh with

1:35:19

complete and utter laryngitis

1:35:21

i didn't feel anxious i didn't feel like anything was wrong but i couldn't make

1:35:24

a sound

1:35:24

like each day i was like just just like some kind of hysterical laryngitis like

1:35:31

i just lost my voice

1:35:32

completely for the first nowhere out of nowhere and i didn't feel nervous i was

1:35:36

excited about playing

1:35:37

gigs but on some part you're like flipping out i played all three of those gigs

1:35:41

i uh someone suggested

1:35:42

that ginger is really good when you lose your voice because that just burns the

1:35:45

out of your vocal cords and clears anything off them so i i got those big

1:35:49

ginger roots you know and

1:35:50

i've taken on stage with a knife and i would shave the skin off the ginger root

1:35:54

cut off a little piece

1:35:56

like a stick of gum size piece put it in my mouth and chew and swallow the

1:35:59

ginger juice like because

1:36:01

that comes out of it which burns your vocal cords clean of anything and allow

1:36:04

you to talk and sing it

1:36:06

works for about a minute or two and then you got to swallow some more or get it

1:36:09

and you don't want

1:36:10

to swallow that that root so you got to throw that and shave the audience what

1:36:14

was going on yeah because

1:36:15

it was too obvious i'm standing on stage with a huge root on a stool next to me

1:36:19

and with a knife

1:36:19

a big knife a big sharp knife or a paring knife of some kind and i'm shaving

1:36:23

and like chewing pieces of

1:36:24

gum like it went away after the third gig but the first three complete laryngitis

1:36:30

do you think it was

1:36:30

psychosomatic absolutely wow isn't that crazy that your brain can trick your

1:36:34

vocal cords into seizing

1:36:36

up because your brain is like somewhere there's a somewhere there's an

1:36:40

understanding that if this

1:36:41

motherfucker can't sing we don't have to go through this oh this is what we're

1:36:45

going to do we're just

1:36:46

going to send some crazy vibes down those vocal cords and paralyze the out of

1:36:51

them

1:36:51

like little do they know but it's not that we can't we're not going to have to

1:36:54

do this it's that

1:36:55

we're now going to send him on stage with a knife and some ginger root you know

1:36:59

like he's going to be

1:37:00

singing all the songs and i'm already like an idiot i'm so nervous about not

1:37:04

playing piano and singing

1:37:05

i'm standing up in front of everybody because i came to rehearsal one day i was

1:37:09

the piano player and

1:37:10

singer in my band you know and i came to rehearsal one day and there's this

1:37:12

other guy there and he's

1:37:13

playing piano and he's really really good and they're like hey this is dan he's

1:37:17

our dan eisenberg i'm

1:37:18

like oh nice to meet you like he's our piano player i'm like i'm our piano

1:37:21

player like you're our singer

1:37:24

that was it i was like booted out and you know granted he was way better to me

1:37:27

but then i had to

1:37:28

learn to stand up so my way of getting around that was like i got a trench coat

1:37:32

i looked like you know

1:37:33

like i thought prince was cool he had a trench coat i could get a trench coat

1:37:36

and i'll stand on stage in

1:37:38

the trench coat and i'll be cool in my trench coat it would have worked better

1:37:41

if i wasn't as it turned

1:37:42

out also shaving ginger with a knife and chewing you know like cooking it's

1:37:46

like a cooking show but with a

1:37:48

trench coat on yeah it's asinine wow this is the stuff we go through you know

1:37:53

like you want i'm

1:37:53

gonna play i don't care my voice is gone i can't talk i'm gonna find a way uh

1:37:58

chewing ginger okay

1:37:59

that's gonna do it it's not pleasant but i will do it wow you know did you

1:38:04

eventually figure out like

1:38:06

what's the best way to handle the anxiety and the the weirdness and the the

1:38:11

what was the best way for

1:38:12

you well you know that year where i spent or a year or two where i spent like

1:38:17

on the acid you learn some

1:38:19

tools during that like one of them is just learning to breathe like breathing

1:38:23

exercises kind of well i

1:38:25

mean you know terror is a self-perpetuating thing you know because your your

1:38:30

heart rate speeds up that

1:38:31

makes you more agitated and more scared if you slow your breathing down your

1:38:38

heart rate cannot increase

1:38:40

like if you keep yourself and you force yourself to breathe in and breathe out

1:38:45

and breathe in your heart rate

1:38:46

is going to slow down and that will take some of the edge off that you know it

1:38:50

does you know i had

1:38:51

to learn to do that that year because for a while after that i would wake up in

1:38:54

the morning and think

1:38:55

it was happening again and i'd start to panic and that's going to cause it to

1:38:58

happen but you just

1:38:59

got to like you know white knuckle it i still wake up a lot at like 6 a.m like

1:39:04

right as the dawn is

1:39:05

coming up i wake up and have a moment of like oh god not this but now it's like

1:39:10

reflexive to just stop

1:39:11

it but back then i had to make myself breathe you know like so you know so by

1:39:17

the time i got to the

1:39:18

stage fright thing i wasn't really feeling stage fright but also i think i felt

1:39:24

like i was in the right

1:39:25

place you know like i could express anything i wanted up there there's nothing

1:39:32

wrong any new melody

1:39:34

anything i wanted to sing any feeling i wanted to put into it it was all art is

1:39:39

all creativity and

1:39:42

there's nothing wrong about any of it i mean you don't want to sing off key all

1:39:45

day long but right

1:39:46

but basically you could just express yourself and that was all by doing it that's

1:39:52

what you're there for

1:39:53

you're there to express yourself anyway so anything you do is just a part of

1:39:56

that i felt pretty confident

1:39:59

in that and like this was whatever i did was the right thing to do because that's

1:40:04

what we were doing

1:40:04

anyways by doing it i make it the right thing to do so is it safe to say that

1:40:08

like

1:40:08

the anxiety and the mental issues and all that stuff it almost became tolerable

1:40:19

because the art was so

1:40:20

satisfying i think it made it a lot better especially finding songs finding the

1:40:26

the whole idea of

1:40:27

songwriting for one thing gave me a place to put all that stuff that didn't fix

1:40:31

the rest of the day

1:40:32

but i'd never had any place to put it before i wrote a song and now it's like

1:40:36

whoa on top of

1:40:37

people would ask me is is it cathartic to play music and i don't think it is it's

1:40:42

not that it doesn't

1:40:43

process it and get it all out of you but if you have to choose between a day

1:40:46

where you just feel shitty

1:40:48

shitty and a day where you feel shitty but you write a song take the song yeah

1:40:52

accomplish something that

1:40:53

day and that's what we're supposed to be you know life is supposed to be about

1:40:56

accomplishing things

1:40:57

making things doing things so take the day where you do something and then you

1:41:01

know what try and do it

1:41:02

again tomorrow because that it is better it doesn't fix it it's not replacing

1:41:06

the difficulty but at least

1:41:08

what you know is that i can have difficulty and i'm not a waste of space on the

1:41:12

earth i'm not falling

1:41:13

apart i'm not i'm not nothing i actually made a song so in in my difficulty of

1:41:18

whatever yesterday was

1:41:20

well i made something beautiful yeah you know and that's that's a powerful

1:41:25

thing it means that like

1:41:26

while you were going through all that you didn't just put your head in your

1:41:29

hands and lay there

1:41:30

you you went ahead and made something and you can you can take that with you

1:41:34

for the rest of your days

1:41:35

that song goes along with you the sense of accomplishment all the feelings of

1:41:39

like

1:41:39

because i think that's the hardest thing about mental illness is you know it's

1:41:43

not what everybody's

1:41:44

going through you know it's harder than it needs to be and there are people who

1:41:47

are going through

1:41:48

stuff i mean as i know now they have their own difficulties but it just seemed

1:41:51

like it was harder

1:41:52

and there are times where you just want to go i don't want to carry this today

1:41:56

you know i'll just

1:41:57

sit here but a big part of it is not to just sit there is to do something is

1:42:02

that also exacerbated

1:42:04

by a heavy tour schedule because like when you do i would imagine there's days

1:42:09

that you just need to

1:42:10

slow down and take breaks and when you're out there bang bang bang show after

1:42:15

show after show

1:42:17

i would imagine there's very little of that time where you get to sit by

1:42:20

yourself in a movie theater and

1:42:21

just chill well you know like in anything in the arts there's a lot of sitting

1:42:24

around you know there's

1:42:25

always going to be time you know when you're not on stage yeah there's a lot of

1:42:28

it but you know it's

1:42:29

coming that night yeah but there's something to that right where if you have a

1:42:33

bunch of shows in a row

1:42:34

like even if you have the whole day off that that show is looming yeah but i

1:42:38

didn't dread it it was the

1:42:40

good part of the day you know it was the best part of the day it was the one

1:42:42

part of the day where i knew

1:42:44

i was where i was supposed to be i wasn't struggling with what to do i i i had

1:42:48

a i even have a set list you

1:42:50

know so i i know a path through the next two hours that wasn't the problem

1:42:54

except you know i wasn't

1:42:56

my voice is kind of weird it can do a lot of great but it's uh it's not

1:42:59

particularly durable and i sing

1:43:01

really hard um so it was not the best at recovering and early on a big part of

1:43:06

it was learning you know

1:43:08

there are limitations to how many days in a row i can do without paying for it

1:43:11

like even if you just

1:43:12

do one three in a row for me i'll be paying for it and recovering from it for

1:43:16

the rest of the tour

1:43:17

two on one off two on one off works we mostly do that every once in a while we'll

1:43:21

put an extra day

1:43:22

off in there but like we had to learn it took years to learn it that you couldn't

1:43:26

you couldn't be too

1:43:28

flexible about that it might seem like you could only play this one thing if

1:43:30

you play three in a row just

1:43:31

do it that one time but i'd be recovering the rest of the tour from that and so

1:43:36

we had to learn that

1:43:37

because losing my voice dealing with a lot of uh uh getting nodes in my vocal

1:43:41

cords because you have to take

1:43:42

the only thing that really fixes nodes is one silence and two steroids you know

1:43:46

like not anabolic but

1:43:47

systemic cortisone prednisone you know stuff like that that's heavy it is it's

1:43:52

not great that's why

1:43:53

that's why when i scraped my knee up that one time on tour it eventually got

1:43:56

really infected uh because

1:43:59

and also why it stayed infected where because they give me all the antibiotics

1:44:02

for it and the antibiotics

1:44:04

kick the out of the infection but you also have that prednisone in there which

1:44:07

keeps bringing it back

1:44:08

and you're keeping it alive so it would come back over prednisone kept the

1:44:12

infection well you know

1:44:14

steroids just kind of basically make things grow faster that's why you heal

1:44:17

faster you rebuild muscle

1:44:19

tissue faster aren't they just anti-inflammatories those kind of steroids no

1:44:22

but that's not what

1:44:23

anti-inflammatories do they they help your body heal quicker by like reproducing

1:44:28

itself quicker cell

1:44:29

growth i think it's i think gets like instigated reducing inflammation that's

1:44:35

why things like ibuprofen

1:44:37

are called non-steroidal anti-inflammatories right because answer but they the

1:44:40

way that steroids work

1:44:42

and why they work so much better i think than like advil is because they create

1:44:47

cell growth that goes

1:44:48

faster which is why like if you have a virus steroid side effects may increase

1:44:52

the risk of staph

1:44:53

infections there it is new research suggests that long-term use of powerful

1:44:57

immune systems suppressing

1:44:58

steroids such as prednisone hydrocortisone and dexamethasone may increase risk

1:45:05

of life-threatening

1:45:06

staph blood infections by a factor of six holy yeah so like when i got the

1:45:12

infection the antibiotics

1:45:13

were kicking its ass but the steroids were kind of also it's like the opposite

1:45:16

it's like pouring

1:45:17

gasoline on it you know and so like it was never quite going away and you know

1:45:21

would keep coming

1:45:22

back which that stuff's also yeah that should make you a little crazy too you

1:45:27

know prednisone can make

1:45:28

you a little like antsy and crazy which is since i was already a little antsy

1:45:31

and crazy oh no i mean

1:45:33

it's a great drug for fixing your vocal cords did they have to give you iv

1:45:37

antibiotics for your knee

1:45:39

uh little bits like not iv but they give you a shot of it and then they'd give

1:45:42

you the antibiotics to

1:45:43

take home with you because my knee turned into a balloon i've had staph before

1:45:47

yeah yeah it's rough

1:45:49

it's amazing how much those antibiotics wreck you though yeah like you're so

1:45:54

tired well they're turning

1:45:55

everything off they're killing all the cell growth to stop the the one thing

1:45:59

from growing more yeah

1:46:00

and you know that's that's why it's the same thing like uh it fucks with your

1:46:04

immune system

1:46:05

because it shuts all that stuff down that's why it's your you know some people

1:46:08

are more of a risk

1:46:09

for the covet thing too because you know if you're on that kind of uh autoimmune

1:46:13

suppressors exactly

1:46:15

yeah a buddy of mine hurt his wrist and they put him on what the way he was

1:46:19

describing it was he said

1:46:21

it was essentially like a low level um chemotherapy he's like just whatever

1:46:27

this was they were doing

1:46:28

for his wrist was because he just had constant wrist pain uh severely exacerbated

1:46:35

uh the covet symptoms

1:46:37

he got coveted while he was on this stuff that was wrecking his immune system

1:46:42

to try to deal with

1:46:43

this autoimmune issue that he has in his wrists and then the covet just swamped

1:46:49

him because he was

1:46:50

his body was like in severe compromised state already that's the one thing they

1:46:55

say that the biggest

1:46:56

people who are still at risk from for getting coveted after being vaccinated

1:47:00

are people who had

1:47:01

autoimmune disorders or on medications for things like that because and obese

1:47:05

people still it's still a

1:47:07

factor well i imagine so because your body's having a harder time taking care

1:47:11

of itself and it's

1:47:12

inflammation again you're dealing with that's a big factor of obesity is you're

1:47:16

dealing with inflammation

1:47:17

everywhere yeah it's um when you hear about people that are taking different

1:47:23

medications to deal with

1:47:24

anxiety or depression the the frustrating thing for many of my friends that

1:47:28

have been on these kind of

1:47:29

medications is trying to find the right one and trying to get it dialed in and

1:47:33

then dealing with all the

1:47:35

stuff that's happening while you're trying to dial it in and a lot of side

1:47:39

effects for that medication

1:47:40

yeah well a lot of them were medications that weren't you know we don't really

1:47:44

know that's the

1:47:45

other thing that's kind of it can really kill your your hope when you're

1:47:49

dealing with mental illness

1:47:51

is that we don't understand how it works the way we understand how other parts

1:47:55

of the body work

1:47:56

we don't understand the brain and a lot of these medications they realize they

1:47:59

work for mental

1:48:01

things because they were medications for something else and then it just

1:48:04

happened to have this effect

1:48:06

so it's good but it has a bunch of side effects it was originally designed for

1:48:09

something else we don't

1:48:10

know exactly how to tune it in yeah you know uh i mean just the fact that like

1:48:15

people who are add

1:48:17

and really hyper uh you give them uh speed basically right and it makes them

1:48:23

calm down i know what the

1:48:25

fuck i mean it's wild that it works that way i mean because i i had that

1:48:28

problem and when they gave me

1:48:29

that i was like this is the worst thing i don't want to be more up and then

1:48:31

they gave it to me and i

1:48:32

was like oh i get it i can think clearly okay that's wild it's wild that it

1:48:36

works but it does it's like

1:48:38

you know those drugs because your brain we just don't understand the brain that

1:48:41

well lately did you

1:48:42

ever try uh meditating or like breathing exercises or exercise did you ever try

1:48:49

any of those things to

1:48:50

deal with yeah i think exercise is really good um uh the breathing also

1:48:54

obviously really helped

1:48:56

meditation i had a lot of problems with because i felt like uh it almost felt

1:49:00

like i was relaxing all

1:49:03

the barriers and structures i had in there to keep this under control

1:49:07

everything i had to hold it

1:49:08

together when i would relax into the medication i mean to the meditation it

1:49:12

felt like it was like

1:49:13

i it's something it was just a way i don't know if it's actually what it does

1:49:18

or just a way i was

1:49:19

conceiving of it in my mind i was picturing like i was letting stuff loose it's

1:49:22

so crazy how many really

1:49:24

creative people struggle struggle with mental illness and it's almost more than

1:49:29

don't i i imagine it has

1:49:31

something to do with you you spend a lot of years keeping things to yourself

1:49:36

not communicating with

1:49:38

other people as well as other people do you got a lot of stuff pent up and when

1:49:43

you find a way to

1:49:44

express it you dive into that you know and creativity and art is like one way

1:49:50

also a lot of us don't deal

1:49:52

with authority very well you know and then now you find a lifestyle that

1:49:56

provides independence you know

1:49:58

like i haven't had a boss for a really long time isn't that nice i mean it's

1:50:02

really nice you know like

1:50:03

i've been running an independent shop for you know 30 years now and like who'd

1:50:08

have thought i'd be able

1:50:09

to grow up and you know run my own company basically which is the best for

1:50:15

everybody if you could figure

1:50:17

out a way to do that just be your own boss my god your life would be so much

1:50:21

different the the pressure

1:50:23

and the weight of like a shitty boss who's you know like dominant over their

1:50:29

employers employees rather

1:50:31

and you know and cracks the whip and yells at everybody in the company meeting

1:50:36

you know all that

1:50:37

shit you're dealing with someone looking over your shoulder while you're doing

1:50:40

your work like oh

1:50:41

fuck the pressure of that it's got to be crazy but i mean look you're running a

1:50:48

a big thing here you

1:50:48

know and and you've got a lot of people working for you and you know being a

1:50:51

boss means what are all

1:50:53

people that are running around here those security guys are cool as they're

1:50:56

just hanging out

1:50:56

oh they're security yeah oh i mean because part of being a boss is taking care

1:50:59

of everybody

1:51:00

dude this is the most preposterous skeleton crew ever for something that

1:51:05

reaches millions of people

1:51:06

it's the most ridiculous setup but that's the way it works so good because it

1:51:11

stays intimate because

1:51:12

like i said i've been to other podcasts that become big and they decide that

1:51:17

they're now a hollywood

1:51:19

production and i met people i'm like what do you do oh i'm the executive

1:51:22

producer you're the executive

1:51:23

producer of what a conversation we need an executive producer are you talking

1:51:28

about so you've got directors

1:51:30

executive producers you got camera directors you got people who are sound guys

1:51:34

you got all these people

1:51:36

you have you have people that are assistants you have people that are pas you

1:51:40

have people that are on

1:51:41

this set that are they're they're getting they're interns so they're getting

1:51:45

college credits to be on the

1:51:47

set and they're taking notes and talking and and then occasionally there's

1:51:50

problems because you know

1:51:52

some pa said something stupid to an intern and now you have to have hr you know

1:51:57

you have hr you have human

1:51:59

resources at your podcast like oh my god what have you done what the have you

1:52:03

done you've you've created

1:52:05

an office now you have a corporation like you you used to have just a

1:52:08

conversation where it was you and

1:52:10

your buddy and there was some youtube video and you had a couple of cameras

1:52:14

running and now because

1:52:15

it became successful you changed what the whole thing is and now you got people

1:52:19

breathing down your neck

1:52:20

you got a bunch of people telling you what to do like oh i've been doing this

1:52:24

thing you know i got

1:52:27

you know about a month into the quarantine i started i went to my girlfriend

1:52:30

and i said i i'm really

1:52:32

worried that i'll just wake up a year from now i don't want to have done

1:52:34

anything you know i want

1:52:35

to do that i'm going to start i'm going to learn to cook everything you know so

1:52:38

i just started like

1:52:39

i've always liked cooking but i started really researching it and trying to

1:52:43

like make all kinds

1:52:44

of for her and for our few friends that we were seeing you know and then it

1:52:47

seemed kind of cool

1:52:48

after a while to be doing this so i started making little videos and just like

1:52:51

putting them up on our

1:52:52

instagram stories and now i'm like sort of filming them myself what kind of

1:52:55

stuff do you cook

1:52:56

i mean all kinds of i did crawfish new orleans crawfish bread a few weeks ago i

1:53:00

did a fish bread

1:53:01

yeah it's like this thing you can only get at the jazz fest where it's like you

1:53:05

kind of make this loaf

1:53:06

from like a bread that's got stuffed cheese and crawfish and spices in it i

1:53:10

think it's i've always wanted

1:53:11

it because it's my favorite thing from jazz fest but i i never knew how to make

1:53:14

it and i'm still it's

1:53:15

still a work in progress but like uh red sauce meat sauce like uh my italian

1:53:21

has gotten really good

1:53:23

um what else have i done i've done about 20 30 of them now i've been putting

1:53:27

them up on instagram tv

1:53:28

and and it's catching on with all these people who are like i mean i have a

1:53:31

bunch of friends who are

1:53:31

chefs who are really good cooks i'm not but i've been really trying you know

1:53:35

and then i've been

1:53:36

trying to show people how to cook stuff that you know some of it's as simple as

1:53:39

just look maybe you

1:53:40

don't know how to make grilled cheese grilled cheese is great i'm gonna show

1:53:42

you it's really simple

1:53:43

and some of it is complicated like a 12-hour meat sauce you know like but you

1:53:48

know i as i was doing

1:53:50

this it's unbeknownst to me it started all these people started getting

1:53:53

interested and my friend who

1:53:55

works on american idol now she's a producer for it she lives here but she flies

1:53:58

out there for that

1:53:59

she's my piano player's wife and she's like yeah man all these people on the

1:54:02

set they all obsessed with

1:54:03

your cooking videos and three of them come to me and said like what about a tv

1:54:07

show we should we should

1:54:08

get out of a cooking show and then you know talked to my manager mark and a

1:54:11

bunch of people came to him

1:54:13

and said we want to put together a show for adam like a cooking show and my

1:54:17

thought was like look

1:54:18

i really like what i'm doing i like the cooking i like filming it myself and

1:54:22

editing myself it's

1:54:23

hard i had to learn how to do it look at you that's crawfish bread i'm trying

1:54:27

to make and what

1:54:28

are you using using a starter is this like a sourdough bread like no i used i

1:54:32

tried it the first time

1:54:33

using my pizza dough recipe and that was good but it's the wrong texture this

1:54:37

one i i got i found a recipe

1:54:39

for like a like a cheesy bread that looked like chewier and i thought that

1:54:43

would be a better recipe and it's

1:54:45

still not the right it's still not right but bread's not my i'm not really a

1:54:49

baker i've just been trying

1:54:50

to you should get together with tom papa do you know tom papa tom papa the

1:54:54

comic no i don't know

1:54:56

hilarious comedian amazing baker really this sourdough bread is off the charts

1:55:02

and he's been obsessed with it

1:55:04

for years and years and years he's been working on cultivating the perfect sourdough

1:55:09

bread and

1:55:10

figuring out how to do it he's got a his starters like 30 years old or some i

1:55:14

forget how old it is

1:55:15

you know they start yeah yeah and he he brings over fresh we used to when we

1:55:20

lived in la i would give

1:55:21

him elk meat and he would give me fresh bread we would make a trade-off you

1:55:25

know and uh his bread is

1:55:27

off the charts man it's so good and it looks good too like he's got the

1:55:32

presentation down show show this

1:55:33

motherfucker some tom papa bread i figured it would have been higher up bro it's

1:55:37

so good oh my god we

1:55:39

would eat it on the podcast just put some butter on it oh sensational

1:55:44

sensational and he just is a master

1:55:47

at bread maybe you could like talk to him and he'll give you some tips on how

1:55:52

to make the bread better

1:55:53

and that's what i need he's really he's got this show called getting baked with

1:55:58

tom prop top that's the

1:55:59

flour i use i love that flour it's really good what kind of flour is it it's

1:56:03

king arthur's

1:56:04

all-purpose flour and they just make it better it's good flour so

1:56:10

is this just him talking it's part one he's got a look there's oh yeah look at

1:56:15

that come on give me

1:56:16

a picture of that bread that's a beautiful piece of bread goddamn perfection

1:56:20

and it tastes as good as

1:56:22

it looks when you slice it open he had a show with the food network but they

1:56:26

canceled it but you know

1:56:27

what that's better anyway he really should be doing it there's me eating his

1:56:31

bread he really should be

1:56:32

doing it a hundred percent on uh youtube i mean that's that's really where it

1:56:38

prolongs just something

1:56:39

like that where nobody tells you what to do just just do it well that was the

1:56:43

thing because everyone's

1:56:44

talking about getting cooking shot i'm like i don't think you understand they

1:56:46

say well you would love

1:56:47

it i'm like why would i love it i love cooking i don't love going on tv shows

1:56:53

and i don't know that

1:56:53

i love having a tv show that's a whole different thing from cooking having a tv

1:56:58

show greasy producer

1:56:59

that's like adam we're going to do this again but this time i you know i just i'm

1:57:03

not feeling you're

1:57:04

having a good time i want you to smile i want you to smile and i want your best

1:57:09

friend is in the

1:57:09

this room okay this camera is your best friend and when you treat and you'd be

1:57:13

like what the

1:57:14

have i done what have i done people think having a tv show sounds like fun

1:57:17

because they like the idea

1:57:19

of being on tv right but i i got enough well i'm like a little more fame it's

1:57:23

like it does really

1:57:24

well it'd be great it's like a band where it could be magic or it could be hell

1:57:29

you know it could be

1:57:30

the lead singer and the guitar player hate each other and they only do the gig

1:57:33

and then they talk

1:57:33

about each other afterwards or it could be like a brotherhood where they love

1:57:36

each other and it's great

1:57:37

and that's how tv shows are that's how any cooperative effort when you get a

1:57:41

group of

1:57:42

people together are it's like you can get lucky and you can get really unlucky

1:57:47

and sometimes some

1:57:48

really successful shows are really unlucky collaborations where the people are

1:57:52

good at what

1:57:52

they do but the stress of working with these cocksuckers they fucking hate the

1:57:57

other people

1:57:58

and i know people that work on television shows and they'll have a drink

1:58:02

afterwards and go

1:58:03

fuck man my executive producer is such a twat i can't handle this dude all he

1:58:08

wants to do is blah

1:58:09

blah blah blah blah and you're like oh i thought you were on tv i thought

1:58:11

everything was great

1:58:13

it's not it's not great it's it's a cooperative effort the beautiful thing

1:58:17

about doing a cooking

1:58:19

show on your own with just a camera and youtube is it's just you it's purity of

1:58:24

vision and expression

1:58:26

there's just singularity one guy your thoughts and what you're trying to do and

1:58:31

you could figure it out

1:58:32

and you could say you know i used to do it like this i don't like doing it like

1:58:35

that anymore

1:58:36

i've realized i i like myself more when i prepare this way or when i do that or

1:58:41

when i approach it that

1:58:43

way you'll find it you'll find it but it's nice too but if you've got some

1:58:47

fucking network you know

1:58:48

we've gone the gun over the metrics adam and it seems like whenever you do this

1:58:52

people tune out

1:58:53

it's like every show it's 13 minutes in they're tuning out so what do we got to

1:58:57

do to keep those

1:58:58

people tuning in for another 13 because daddy wants to buy a new house what can

1:59:01

we do adam i'm looking

1:59:03

at a lamborghini i like to get a lamborghini and i can't get a lamborghini if

1:59:06

this is not successful

1:59:08

so what do we do adam i have a maserati i want to pay my lease how do i make

1:59:12

this show better so i make

1:59:14

more money and put my kids through college i want to bribe usc so i can get my

1:59:19

children into that

1:59:20

school i need more money to pay off people you're dealing with so many

1:59:24

different people and so many

1:59:26

different issues and to do something creative it's it's so hard to do it with a

1:59:30

lot of other people's

1:59:31

input yeah that's the nice thing about our creative thing is it's me and six of

1:59:34

my best friends

1:59:35

and a producer and it's all there it's not like i mean i've worked on movie

1:59:40

stuff that you got

1:59:41

it's like a lot of levels of people and a lot more money and it's a it's a huge

1:59:45

hassle the executive

1:59:47

levels like you're saying that is the biggest problem it's like yeah all these

1:59:49

people who have

1:59:50

to justify their job you know it's not creative no generally speaking they're

1:59:53

that's not what they do

1:59:55

what they do is try to maximize profit they try to maximize profit and you know

2:00:00

and sometimes it gets

2:00:01

in the way of creativity because they're like i don't you know think the way

2:00:04

you're doing it's like i

2:00:05

just don't think this is the best way for our image and our brand what what are

2:00:10

you saying what is this

2:00:12

and i'm sure you had to deal with that with music right i mean you guys yeah we

2:00:15

didn't have to listen

2:00:16

to it right i mean that's you have that kind of record company pressure a

2:00:20

little bit but you know we

2:00:22

had a huge bidding war at the beginning like pretty much every record company

2:00:26

in the world offered us a

2:00:27

contract from the beginning at the beginning before we were how did you get

2:00:30

signed like well we had a lot of

2:00:32

demos and we had been making them for a while and they were really our guernemar

2:00:36

guitar players was

2:00:37

a really good engineer and he had a little studio and so when we made demos we