#1628 - Eric Weinstein

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Joe Rogan podcast check it out the Joe Rogan experience train by day Joe Rogan

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podcast by

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night all day

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boom

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those are the only ones I know I don't know another uh

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what's the other one it's gotta be what's that school what school school I don't

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know

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is that Swedish German something is it a Viking one yeah oh

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use your microphone folks lunch I don't know how to say slump day what is that

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one the Irish

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one oh I don't know that one yeah I don't know that either no Jamie's throwing

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extra ones in

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there there we go what's up brother how are you um well how are you you look

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like a businessman

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is that right are you a businessman I'm trying to be one I think you're a

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professional clubhouse

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guest no no the thing is right um it's the only platform that I have more

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followers on than you

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because you're only there once I think yeah one and done I'm one and done yeah

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it's just like

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podcasting for people to have a podcast

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well the interesting question is do do you think that it has any ability to

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figure out a way of

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killing podcasting because that's what they think they're crazy no impossible

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because the beautiful

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thing about podcasting it's you're capturing a conversation and it's an uninterrupted

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that the

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thing that happened with your brother should have put the nail in the coffin in

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that in that format oh

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you mean the struggle session yes the fact that someone can come in and and

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kick everyone off that

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disagrees with them take over the room and that they did it just because they

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decided what was the reason

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why they gave her the the option to kick everybody out and gave her

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administrative power or whatever it is I

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think she'd been historically oppressed or something oh that's why I guess I

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don't know well from what I

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understand the conversation before she came on was very clumsy that's what

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everybody was saying it was like

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that it it it left an opening I see for someone like her to come and go shut

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the fuck up get out of here

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but the way she treated your brother and the way I did not listen to this by

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the way you shouldn't

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it'll infuriate you the way you know like they they caught they said he was

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talking he said he's an

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evolutionary biologist yeah and they were these these kids were like oh you're

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in eugenics you believe

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in eugenics he's like no no no no no no no and they they basically just steamrolled

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him called him a

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racist and cut him off it was it was very infuriating they didn't want to have

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a conversation with him

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they wanted to belittle him they wanted him to proclaim that he's anti-racist

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and you know I've seen this movie

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before yeah it's not good but it's just the fact that that can happen yeah in

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the platform you know it was just

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when when you're doing something like that when someone can come in and just

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kick all the other people out that

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they don't agree with yeah sure like you could just join in a conversation that's

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already rolling could have left he

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just doesn't want to well he got kicked out he was trying to make sense he was

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trying to express he's

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always trying to make sense I know it's a problem we gotta fix that but I mean

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the the clubhouse thing

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seems a like a fun social thing to do like I enjoyed doing it with Tim Dillon

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because Tim was in here with

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me and we were yucking it up and goofing on it and then your brother jumped in

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on the conversation and

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the vol was in the conversation that's where it gets more interesting which is

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that the serendipity

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that's possible because normally the logistics of getting us all in one place

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yes it's it's difficult

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it's expensive nobody really is up for it because it it's probably not as high

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quality as a point-to-point

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conversation but the serendipity of saying yes okay I saw two people I never

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thought would be in the

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same room and then 12 other people and you know at first I think that's

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exciting but then the danger of

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it is that they're going to burn through the novelty effects you're going to

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have seen all these people

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collide well maybe I mean there's an you know it's almost like chess moves

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right like even though you

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know how in their favor he'd know how the pieces move but there's an insane

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number of possibilities

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that could take place true but I do think there's a weird way in which you're

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always in danger of setting

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up too many different ways into the same basic source that's the value and so

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you know you can say okay I've

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got a website I've got a sub stack I've got a podcast I've got a book how many

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ideas do you have I mean

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that's kind of the issue one of the things that I think makes you dominant is

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that you have an insane

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breath and most people are really not that capable of going outside of a few

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issues well I'm not capable

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of it either I'm just curious I just I'm not scared yeah I'm not scared of

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having conversations that are way over

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my head I just think the clubhouse thing they've got to work out that what

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happened like they've got to work that out so

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that doesn't happen that the flaw is in letting someone come in and then

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kicking other people out so they can't

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communicate anymore you could do that the the moderator privilege there is

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something that you shouldn't give

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out like candy because that's what opens it up but here's the thing why would

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you want to give out

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modern people are we why does anybody but why does anybody want to be the

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moderator because that's not

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good it's horrible there's an actual status and caste system of people who need

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more going on in their

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lives like i was called up on stage i was made a moderator and you realize that

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you know for people

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whose lives have gone online due to covid meaning has been scarce and so in a

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weird way this is

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what's proxying for meaning because the human mind will just attach meaning to

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any kind of distinction

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like that for a lot of comics it's replaced performing so they're not going up

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at night but they're going

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in the clubhouse every night and Lea Lamar for example is really really active

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and you know what i told

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her was pioneer something new don't try to do something old figure out what

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this new thing is

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better at and be the first well she has a lot of people on that right yeah a

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lot a lot more than

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she has on the other platforms i think she's she's doing really well and she's

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doing a lot of stuff

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and what i hope is that um you know she'll pioneer something genuinely new like

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for example radio drama

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was dying when i was a kid there was the cbs radio mystery hour or something we

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used to listen to that

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when we'd drive up to nice to love those yeah they were cool right and that's

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gone you know with a

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bunch of people acting out voices eg marshall was the host of those things and

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it was like a throwback

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to orson wells and that stuff wouldn't it be cool to get some retro thing

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because the idea behind

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clubhouse is to take discord and subtract functionality from it and that's the

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product

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it's less it's got less functionality than discord and that causes you to say

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okay well i can't text you

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how am i going to work around all these constraints and it's like you know a

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great wine is only

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supposedly grown when you frustrate the vines really yeah that's what i that's

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what i hear

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how's that work how they frustrate the vines that if you give if you give the vines

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perfect

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soil and climate and all this stuff they'll produce much fruitier stuff and it

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won't be

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perfectly optimized for fermenting into wine really look there's a lot of bs

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and wine so i don't want

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to say a hundred percent but this is definitely something you'll hear have you

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seen the documentary

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sour grapes no oh my god tell me you have to watch it um are you a wine guy no

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i like wine i actually

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love wine i don't know a damn thing about it i just go that's good and i take

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pictures of it on my phone

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when i like it and then i buy that wine later i don't know what the fuck's

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going on i'm i'm as

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really nobody does almost nobody that's what the documentary is about the

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documentary is amazing

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and it's about this guy who got in with all these real rich wine connoisseurs

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yeah including a friend

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of mine who's in the film oh no yes yeah um and this guy realized that there is

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only a limited amount

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of rare wine like 1974 blah blah blah right so this dude decides he is going to

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fake this wine and so he

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makes these labels he and apparently this gentleman who's featured in this film

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who wound up getting

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arrested and he's in jail right now in colorado and apparently they're um they're

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detaining him

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they're they're about to deport him because he's about to get out of jail they're

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going to deport

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him back to indonesia which is where he's from but he i think it's indonesia he

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had an amazing palette

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he was a like he was a real legitimate wine collector and then somewhere along

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the line he realized that

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buying and selling wine was good because he was kind of quartering the market

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on a lot of wines he's

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spending a ton of money he realized you know what i can fake these wines i

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understand what these wines

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are so he started mixing wines together and he developed all these formulas of

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how to mix like

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cheaper wines and he would sell them as like these super rare you know 1970

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whatever wines but where he

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fucked up is spoiler alert one of the coke brothers bought like four million

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dollars worth of wine from

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him and one of his friends started he had a friend who's an investigator of

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wine apparently that's

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a thing why investigate guy who really understands wine was telling him like he

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bought bottles from

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thomas jefferson oh yeah yeah from the 1700s chateau de chem of jefferson i

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think is still drinkable

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really well there's this one particular kind of sauterne which comes from the

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semi-owned grape in

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the bordeaux region or uh and it's made from this noble rot so you get the

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grapes to sort of have

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this disease that concentrates the sugar and i believe that chateau de chem is

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like weirdly drinkable

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beyond hundreds of years yeah crazy wow that's wild because this guy just the

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coke brother he just had

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this stuff and was just had it on display i mean he has this immense one i mean

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it's worth untold

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amounts of money what do you do with that money right he just has an insane

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wine collection millions

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and millions of dollars but he has four million dollars of fake wine and uh he

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realized it as they

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were going through his collection like that there was um magnums from uh a year

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where they didn't make

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magnums and this so this guy starts going over the the and then what happened

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was a gentleman from france

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got involved france i should say he got involved and uh he is an actual wine

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maker and his wine was being

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plagiarized he was they were faking his wine and so he came in and saw the

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counterfeit wines and even in

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the auctions like the like he was pointing out in the auction booklet like

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these are fake wines like

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we did not have this wine in this year the the label is incorrect this is

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incorrect and then you know

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there were some misspellings on some of the labels and this guy made millions

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of dollars in wine and

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sold thousands and thousands of bottles and so initially they thought he was

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doing it all himself

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in his apartment but then when they realized the sheer volume of the fake wine

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this guy sold and put out

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there that there had to be other people involved but he was the only one that

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went down for it they

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think maybe his brothers uh in indonesia were also involved in this scheme

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somehow but they they feel

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like there's thousands and thousands of bottles of this stuff still in

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circulation and still being sold

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there was an auction that was they were selling this guy's wine his i believe

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his name is rudy

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they were selling his wines um at a christie's auction like long after he had

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been exposed and so

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these guys on these uh the you know these wine connoisseur email list or they're

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you know emailing

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each other back and forth and hey like rudy's wines are being sold here this is

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this is fake and

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then they have these experts come in and test the stuff but what's crazy is one

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guy in the film and

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one is like this is one of the real bottles that rudy sold me because rudy was

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selling real wine right

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before he started selling wine he's like this is one of the real bottles like

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try it and the guy tries

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it he's like oh yeah this is really good and then another guy gets a hold of

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goes when did you open

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this and he goes uh what a couple hours ago he's like he tasted he goes this is

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bullshit this is not

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real he goes this doesn't have the vivacity it doesn't have the flavor this is

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not i've tasted this

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wine this is not the wine because apparently and i don't understand this at all

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right the palette

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of a wine connoisseur is this thing where they can literally like you can give

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them a like a flight

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of wines and they can tell you this is a full james bond petite shiraz from

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blah blah blah and i

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don't again i'm so out of my wheelhouse here but i think i like buffalo trace

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whiskey i'm with you

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there that's what i'm saying i know this tastes good yeah you know but okay

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well first of all

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should we try to drink this in the weird wine way no no this is american we don't

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fuck around here it's

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got a buffalo with testicles on the label son look at that right there like

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that yes this is older than

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america by the way you know this his company buffalo trace they started making

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whiskey in 1773

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it's literally three years older than america itself so the thing that i did

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not understand i think about

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wine is that if you're trying to taste your wine you can't possibly get at what's

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this high-end stuff

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because it's only your nose that can determine the these differences that

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nobody's got enough stuff

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going on in their tongue to tell great wine so you've got this thing called the

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retronasal passage

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in the back of your mouth can i get a graph jamie retro nasal passage yeah

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where do we where do we

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pull this graphic um and so this whole thing about burbling where you you turn

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your mouth into a bong

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right oh yeah let's do it how you do it

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and they smell it well you start you're getting this fountain with air coming

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up and then you're opening

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the back of your opening your retronasal passage you do get a little bit of a

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smell right and you

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and that's where the magic happens so the weird thing is somebody buys really

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expensive wine and then

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they try to taste it yeah here we go there we go that's for beer well it's for

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anything like once

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you get it's interesting once you get addicted to um yeah maybe that's like

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dudes are into smelling feet

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like that's what's going on you're not trapping me in that conversation no we

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had we had a guy at kill

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tony okay he's really in the feet he was hilarious were you there jamie that

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night

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it was a killed tony recently at uh anton's and this this kid went up he was

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really funny he was a

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funny comic but it was really funny he was talking about how he's really in a

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girl's feet

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and he was like completely unapologetic like and he was hilarious and he was

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just talking about how

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he likes to smell girl's feet you notice how everybody else's attraction is

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weird and whatever

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your thing is it's like yeah i don't know i'm just into that well it was funny

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i mean it was definitely

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weird because it's unusual yeah someone would be it's i don't think it's

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unusual that guys are in a

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feet i think it's a lot more usual than you think but i think what is unusual

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is that he was so

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uh open about expressing the fact that he was in defeat in front of a group of

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strangers yeah in a

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one minute set on kill tony because kill do you know you know how kill tony

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works not really kill

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tony is uh the foundation it was one of the foundations in in los angeles and i

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think it's

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going to be the foundation in austin of the open mic community okay because it

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gives a comic one minute

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the tony has tony hinchcliffe developed a show and him and brian red band they

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do it together and

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tony has a hat they shake the hat up and they or a bucket they reach in the

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bucket and they pull out

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a name okay random and then that person doesn't know if they're going to

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perform or not there's

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maybe 30 people that throw their names in and maybe five get to perform and tony

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pulls that name out

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calls the guy or girl or non-binary folk and they come running onto the stage

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and they do one minute

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of stand-up got it and this guy did one minute stand-up about how he gets hard-ons

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because of feet and it

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was just hilarious but he was talking about the smell of of feet and the girl

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got on stage and took her

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shoe off and he smelled her foot it was just it was preposterous okay but it's

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it gives these comics

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an opportunity to like on that at that night i think it was me and adam egott

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that night but it's like

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donnell wrongs has been on you know like you name a dom irera is a favorite

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guest like great comics are

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on it all the time so there's a professional guest that sits there and talks to

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the comics the comic

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does a set and then we'll ask them i've done it a bunch of times we'll ask them

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questions yeah like

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how long you've been doing comedy like what where'd you start you know what

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town you start out in and

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then they tell what are you doing now for money and you know they have great

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stories and it's it's fun

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because you get a chance to see the beginnings and some of those comics have

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gone on like ali makovsky

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who has opened up for me in arenas she started out on kill tony okay yeah and

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so it's like you could

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develop a legitimate professional career from this but it's like a really good

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path for the these amateurs

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to get like one minute of stage time so they hone this one minute hoping they're

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going to get called

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onto the stage and usually like if you're a halfway decent comic and you've

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been doing it you know

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six months a year you probably have a minute you probably have a minute where

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you could get up there

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and rock it for a minute and when they do some of them are terrible but some of

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them are really funny

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some of them what's the best way to get people opened up almost instantly with

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no foreplay to go on

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yeah you don't there's no way you know you have to just have it's there's a

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different way for you

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than it would be for jamie than it would be for me everybody's i've seen it be

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different for you

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on different nights yeah it's always different i always you gotta it's just

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like it's a living thing

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the audience is a living thing it depends entirely upon what's happened before

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you went on stage

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it depends entirely on what time of night it is you know there's a lot going on

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i'm always a little

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freaked out when i see you at the store because i don't associate like i got to

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know you before i

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ever got to see you be funny in front of a crowd and it was just like holy you

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can do that you know

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and and it's a different persona like you can clearly see that a different mind

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has clicked in

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it's like the i know kung fu moment it is like that right yeah and it's like if

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you saw me do kung

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fu you'd think that too dude i don't really know any kung fu but you know it's

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uh it's a thing you

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know you got to know how to do it then you gotta when you do it you got to

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treat that audience like

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you know you got to bring the good you gotta you gotta come with the good good

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jokes it's like

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when i saw steven seagal playing blues guitar at first i was just like what is

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he good he

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i don't want to say anything negative but i've seen parts of it that have been

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really really pretty

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good yeah i don't know i mean i'm i'm um

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uh i'm trying to figure out what happened to the guitar and what happened to

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covid uh changing the

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world of guitar because everybody changed the world of guitar lots of people

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had time on their hands

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oh and then and and the amps have gotten wildly better in the last year uh i

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bought a a modeling

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amp uh for 250 bucks that changed my life from positive grid called the spark

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amp we're talking

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about it with jamie and it is a replica of like all the gear that real guys

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have that hobbyists like

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don't even know what it is i can play with it and it'll model all of these

19:56

setups so suddenly like

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i'm smarter and then you know that's weird thing i was telling jamie this had

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to have been developed

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long in advance it's been over yes but i think a 250 dollar item that just

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blows your mind may be

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relatively new and there's i think there's one coming from um oh with neural dsp

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so there's like

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competing and and jamie was talking about the helix so there's like this

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collection of these things and

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i hadn't spent 300 on my rig for 30 years or something and i did this and

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suddenly um a little

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bit more magic was like available to me and really and then i put a brief clip

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of myself playing on

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instagram and i got contacted by like some of the greatest guitarists in the

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effing world when when

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toasting abasi and uh joe robinson and ryan roxy if it was the guitarist for

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like alex alice cooper contact

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you and they're like this is you jamming look give me some of this give me some

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of this jamie

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you're jamming to glenn back is that what it says

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that wasn't actually the one that that's pretty good and you're doing that

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without a pick

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if there's another one um look yeah that one is that one that i i didn't know

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you were supposed to

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yeah you you that was the one that did it i think apparently you're supposed to

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use a pick but i didn't

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know

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basically i'm playing air guitar with a real guitar that's really good dude

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well that's that's the amp

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and the fact that somebody set up my strat what do you mean but that you didn't

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know you're supposed

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to play with dude i don't know what i'm doing i don't know what i'm doing and

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how'd you learn how to do

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this uh i hang out in a room alone it's sort of dark and lonely but really yeah

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when did you learn

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this though this is part of the thing i do a bunch of things that i did i don't

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do with other people

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right i just learn right but when did you learn this how long ago i don't even

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know some of it in

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the last year but but when did you start playing guitar you're being quiet no i

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don't like i don't

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like it i'm gonna call you out on this i don't okay very uncomfortable i've had

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a guard i've had a

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guitar since i was go after yourself i had a guitar since i was 15 but i don't

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know when okay yeah i'm

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playing forever but you're self-taught but yeah and then you have these like

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plateaus where suddenly

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you take your head out of your ass well hendrix was self-taught you know almost

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all of the really

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great steve rayvon i believe was self-taught albert king was self-taught it's

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it's all of these guys

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were like on the next level where are they going to learn it from you know who

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creates a danny gatton or a

23:01

roy buchanan nobody knows um i don't know who those guys are but i'll trust you

23:04

they'll blow your mind

23:06

will they i wonder how gary learned gary clark jr gary clark did you learn

23:11

psycho what does it say

23:13

self-taught bitch whoa so i can't do that stuff but the point that that i'm

23:19

starting to come to is i

23:22

realize when different communities behave differently they're angry jealous

23:27

communities and they're open

23:28

hearted we're glad to have you on board communities and i could not believe the

23:33

quality of the people

23:34

who reached out to me to give me encouragement for whatever stupid and this

23:37

thing i don't know how to

23:38

hold a pick i don't know how to do this stuff with a pick i just can't i think

23:43

as long as the sound is

23:44

good they don't care is that correct i think more than that i think that the

23:48

idea is that there's this

23:49

one of us thing like okay i can see that he's spent time in the trenches trying

23:55

to figure out what we do

23:57

and most people don't care and he does you know and so the idea is um you know

24:03

i did a guitar podcast

24:05

recently and i just expected this other thing which is like what do you mean by

24:10

you did a guitar podcast

24:11

ryan roxy for alice cooper says i want you on the podcast as a fellow guitarist

24:16

yeah so like joe satriani

24:19

you know was sitting in that chair and then here i am saying like wow well but

24:25

in part um when people

24:27

are like fans of i mean you do comedy you do acting you do jujitsu you do so

24:33

many different things that

24:37

you know that there's some things that you don't do at the same level as other

24:40

things yeah when people

24:41

see that you're like taking an interest like if i found out that you were you

24:45

know a um a road

24:47

racing but you know bicyclist or something like that people would be like wow

24:51

joe joe's one of us

24:52

they're happy to have you on board i feel what you're saying yeah yeah

24:56

especially like weird esoteric

24:59

things you know weird like mandolin for example whenever i do something on mandolin

25:04

you know i have all

25:06

these people oh i'm one of those people too i have a mandolin you know it's

25:09

probably pretty rare right

25:10

how many people are playing mandolin i don't know it it was it was competitive

25:14

with the guitar in the

25:15

late 1800s i think and then the guitar sort of just blew it out of the water

25:22

but there's a new thing

25:23

called octave mandolin which is down an entire octave so it doesn't have that

25:27

kind of really bright

25:28

tinny sound so i'm going to pursue the octave mandolin and see whether is there

25:33

any benefit in a kid

25:35

learning how to play the recorder it seems like they're just with those kids

25:39

when they give them

25:39

a recorder well i look there's some cool stuff from like telemon if you're

25:43

really into right but

25:44

like no one plays professional recorder right can you get chicks with a

25:47

recorder i don't know i don't

25:48

know if you can you you you would get those chicks anyway well you know the

25:52

scene with belushi

25:53

and the guitar yes i can't you have to be very careful what you play i know we

25:57

all do i love that scene

25:59

it's so real it's so real sorry yeah it's so real i've been at a party where a

26:04

guy busts out a guitar

26:05

and starts singing and you're like oh my god who are you what have you done

26:10

well what are the skills that you would want to acquire at this uh um i think

26:17

music would be really

26:18

interesting to learn either play the piano or play the guitar i just don't have

26:22

the time yeah i don't

26:23

have the time i i don't have the time to do the things that i already do you

26:27

know how about hyper

26:28

accelerating one of those things like getting somebody who understands your

26:31

brain because

26:32

you're a great learner i'm good at listening yep i look like uh but you're

26:37

beginner's mindset a lot

26:39

yeah well i think it's helpful i do a lot of things from scratch you know like

26:42

i think uh that's

26:45

how i got good at jujitsu is listening i didn't get good at jujitsu because i

26:48

figured it out myself i get

26:49

good because my friend eddie eddie bravo was a great coach and and my original

26:53

instructor jean jock

26:54

machado is a great coach i just listen to them what made eddie a great jujitsu

26:58

intellectual eddie

27:00

thinks way outside the box way way way outside the box and he's just real

27:05

creative you know because

27:07

he's uh he's a musician like that's that's what he does outside of uh comedy

27:12

yeah he's done comedy too

27:14

he actually he was always really funny and i try to get him to do comedy like

27:18

way back in the day

27:19

and he did a few open mics but it was just too harrowing for him but then when

27:22

he started doing

27:24

a lot of seminars and got really comfortable teaching because he became a jujitsu

27:30

instructor

27:31

and started teaching for a living then he got much more comfortable in front of

27:35

large groups of people

27:36

and then he started doing stand-up again within the last five or six five years

27:41

or so something like

27:42

that and then he's very funny he's just a funny guy like me and him hang out we

27:47

laugh so hard

27:49

he's like other than joey diaz i probably laugh harder with eddie bravo than

27:53

anybody that i know

27:54

but he's just he thinks different than people and sometimes it's a problem he

27:58

starts like entertaining

27:59

some ideas that are completely preposterous and he goes deep with them because

28:04

he's figured out a way

28:05

with jujitsu to take ideas that a lot of people didn't think were good yeah and

28:09

figured out a way to

28:10

tap people out with those ideas like he took some ideas and he said no you just

28:14

gotta like

28:15

like for instance here's a perfect example like there's certain kicks that um

28:21

if you just showed

28:23

someone it they would say well that's not practical right you're not going to

28:26

be able to do that the

28:27

problem is you just haven't reached a proficiency like maybe like a stephen

28:31

wonderboy thompson or

28:32

something like that where it will become practical like a specific kick is like

28:36

a spinning wheel kick

28:38

it's a wild cool looking kick looks great in a bruce lee movie right wonderboy

28:42

thompson he's he's a famous

28:43

mixed martial arts fighter he pulls that off in fights because he's a 57 and 0

28:50

kickboxer and one of the best

28:51

strikers that's ever competed in mixed martial arts so his proficiency in

28:55

striking is so elite that he

28:57

can do things that if you just taught some people would say that's impractical

29:02

that'll never work in

29:04

a fight but it will work in a fight if you reach the highest level of proficiency

29:08

and eddie had that

29:09

same mindset with jujitsu techniques and he figured out a way to make some

29:12

techniques that a lot of people

29:14

thought were impractical not just possible but really um very uh and repeatable

29:21

yes not just repeatable but high percentage okay like especially if you if

29:26

someone is in a situation

29:28

where they don't understand what's happening so they don't understand what's in

29:32

danger or where

29:33

the counters are or where you know where you're trapped he's just real creative

29:38

you know but again

29:40

like he gets him tripped up like he starts believing some wacky shit but then

29:43

he gets out of it he'll let

29:45

things go after a while but you know he it's because he entertains ideas and he'll

29:49

he'll because he

29:50

doesn't trust mainstream thought well so mainstream thought whether it's in jujitsu

29:56

or mainstream

29:56

thought whether it's in economics or whatever are we all struggling with this a

29:59

little bit like

30:00

there's no part of the mainstream that looks at all credible to me anymore well

30:04

it's real wacky now

30:06

right and here's a here's a wacky one where the new york times uh is they they're

30:12

debunking this idea

30:14

that the wuhan lab may have been the source of covid when they're like when all

30:20

these different people

30:22

are talking about it we've been on this for forever we have been on it forever

30:25

what it's

30:25

it's extraordinary is the the new york times is still saying debunked claims

30:31

with no evidence

30:33

whatsoever you know saga and jetty from the rising in the hill had this whole

30:37

piece about it on his uh

30:39

youtube channel i love what they're doing they're the best they're the best

30:41

well he's got two channels

30:42

have you been on either uh well i've i've only had him on here and crystal

30:47

together but what i like

30:48

that was what you guys did right at the beginning of that where they explained

30:51

what happens i didn't

30:52

mean to cut you off that's okay um what happens in the cycle when your team

30:56

wins and your team loses

30:57

and how but they've both broken out of that and they've thrown that away yes

31:00

that was that was 10

31:02

minutes yeah that i needed to hear that you i thought you broke new you the

31:05

three of you guys broke

31:07

really new ground they're what we need there's a reasonable person on the left

31:11

and a reasonable

31:12

person on the right and they're both committed to honesty above all right they

31:16

might have different

31:17

philosophical coming together crystal is coming towards saga because she's

31:22

seeing yes the rot on

31:23

the left yes what my hope is is that she's going to be um a credible

31:29

progressive who's rejecting all

31:32

this nonsense progressivism yeah i think i think you're right she's very smart

31:36

and so is he and the

31:37

two of them together wonderful what were you going to say before i catch up

31:39

what i was going to say is

31:41

they were talking about how the new york times is is talking about this deep i

31:45

forget who they were

31:46

quoting who who was uh entertaining this ideal is that what cdc that's right

31:52

the cdc guy that he was

31:54

uh entertaining this idea this uh this debunked idea of this emanating from a

32:00

lab but it's not debunked

32:02

not only is it not debunked it's more possible than ever but the problem is the

32:06

idea was originally

32:08

associated with donald trump so these motherfuckers at the new york times still

32:12

have it in their head

32:13

that they can't admit i don't know that that's what's going on what do you

32:16

think it is well that

32:18

what they do it's a weird move we should tell people exactly what what they're

32:22

saying okay the the

32:23

the former head of the cdc is saying that it's more probable than not he's not

32:29

saying it's absolute

32:31

he's saying it's more probable than not that it escaped from a lab right and he

32:35

details it and he actually

32:36

predates it he goes pre uh you know he goes like deep into september and october

32:42

he believes it might

32:44

have emanated around that time started spreading they the reason why is and it

32:49

all makes total sense

32:50

this is a very unusual laboratory the laboratory had been cited in 2018 for

32:55

safety protocol violations

32:57

the laboratory works on the exact same kinds of coronaviruses that caused this

33:04

worldwide pandemic

33:06

on bats they work on bat coronaviruses and this is one of two level four labs

33:12

that are in this area

33:14

so this this whole thing is so it's so much more likely that it emanated from

33:18

the lab but the problem

33:20

is the the narrative was donald trump is racist donald trump calls it the china

33:26

virus donald trump says

33:28

it came from a lab it can't have come from a lab because donald trump's always

33:31

wrong

33:33

that's one possibility i'm worried about something beyond that what are you

33:36

worried about the way

33:38

that they make this move is that they synonymize the lab leak hypothesis with a

33:44

synthetic virus engineered

33:46

from scratch so in other words the idea of like maybe somebody growing uh

33:52

horseshoe bat coronavirus in

33:54

human lung tissue to accelerate natural selection because like we don't know

33:58

how to engineer it but if you let

34:00

if you let natural selection engineer it you can accelerate that right so

34:04

instead of saying um we

34:08

don't know what to make of accelerated natural selection in a lab leaking they

34:13

try to make this

34:14

move which is like you know there's no sign that this was engineered in a lab

34:17

you're like okay well you

34:19

changed what the hypothesis is in order to say what you're saying to protect

34:24

your future credibility and

34:25

the thing that i'm really freaking out about you've been talking about it brett's

34:28

been talking about i've

34:29

been talking about all sorts of people have been talking about this one for a

34:32

year

34:32

i increasingly think that none of these organizations think that they owe us

34:38

any kind of truth

34:39

that when they get caught it's just like yeah of course we had to say that like

34:42

what yeah you know

34:45

like this time magazine article about of course we fortified the election you

34:50

what oh yeah we fortified it

34:53

oh i trump was right about a conspiracy like in the article quoting that who

34:58

are they quoting that

34:59

said they've they fortified the election there was apparently some entire group

35:04

under one guy with

35:05

hundreds of activists who told their people don't riot in the streets have a

35:10

dance party instead

35:13

i would highly recommend it's time magazine i read the i read the the the blurb

35:18

about the fortifying

35:20

and i was like hmm yeah that's a disturbing quote but what does it mean what

35:24

did that what are they

35:25

trying what they mean with their the claim of the article is we went right up

35:30

to the door meddling with

35:32

the election but all we cared about was free and fair and we had a huge

35:37

conspiracy so donald trump

35:39

wasn't wrong there was a huge conspiracy but we are so committed to democracy

35:43

that even though we

35:44

hate donald trump with a passion that you know won't let go 24 7 uh we still

35:48

would never do anything

35:50

against an election the problem is with a guy like trump you can almost justify

35:54

some horrible

35:56

horse if you claim that you're you have to fight all enemies foreign and

36:01

domestic and you claim that he's

36:02

a russian asset you're pretty much saying that you have to do something drastic

36:07

yeah and so the number

36:08

of things that people claim is what the problem is because they're not all

36:11

compatible and and what i'm

36:13

trying to get it more broadly is over and over i see the same move which is

36:18

deny deny deny we get caught

36:20

yeah limited hangout yeah we did that that's the kind of stuff we do because we

36:25

have to do it but i don't

36:26

think they're saying they got caught i think they're saying that what we did

36:29

was make sure the election

36:31

was fair it was i think the concept of a limited hangout where you know that

36:36

something is too big to

36:37

hold back so you push a part of it into the public not all of it that's the

36:41

limited and you let the

36:43

public think okay well now you know the truth and it stops there and then they

36:47

stop asking questions

36:48

because they've got a new toy to play with have you been paying attention to

36:51

the border crisis

36:52

shit um where it's not bad when democrats do it it's not bad when democrats do

36:56

it and it's even worse

36:58

than when trump was doing it but it's still not bad it's bad i don't know how

37:02

to be a logical democrat

37:03

anymore yeah i don't know how to do it either i don't i don't like politically

37:07

homeless i'm politically

37:08

homeless now and these people have done it because it's it's a low iq movement

37:13

or it's a high uh

37:17

it's a low integrity movement or it's a low iq movement it can't be it can't be

37:21

high iq high

37:21

integrity you and i had a conversation on this very podcast and i said that i

37:25

would vote for trump

37:26

before i would vote for biden i remember didn't want and people got mad at me i

37:29

didn't wind up

37:30

voting for either one i voted for joe jorgensen because i'm like this is almost

37:34

like a protest vote

37:35

yeah i did the same but my point was exactly what we're experiencing right now

37:40

the guy does press

37:41

conferences and they're like something out of a macabre movie i feel like i'm

37:47

terrified it's like

37:48

grandpa's at the wheel dude and he's not on his medication this is nuts man it's

37:52

nuts here and then

37:53

now they're calling it they're not calling it the biden administration anymore

37:56

they're calling it the

37:57

biden harris administration which to me is like letting you know that there's

38:03

only a matter of time

38:04

before it's president harris this kid in florida i'm a i'm i'm a something you

38:09

know didn't say caretaker

38:10

president but uh you know i'm i'm just sort of here to warm the seat you're the

38:15

future

38:16

you're just thinking like okay you're the oldest president in american history

38:20

by a long shot

38:21

why do we need a oh transitional i'm a transition but here's the thing bernie's

38:26

older than him

38:27

right jimmy carter's still in the play in the game jimmy carter's still in the

38:32

game because

38:32

he could do a second term yeah he's only a thousand years old he just got over

38:36

cancer we just

38:37

i'm just i'm hoping that i'm joking joking i hope so but bernie is lucid that's

38:43

my point i believe

38:44

bernie is at least biden's age am i correct or is he older older he's older but

38:50

very lucid yeah when

38:51

he talks he talks clearly and you know and apparently he said he's gonna run

38:55

again which is kind of crazy

38:57

so he's gonna what is he gonna do like how is that gonna work he's gonna go

39:01

independent

39:01

why can't we have anyone younger than us i'm 55 i i could vote for tulsi yes i

39:11

could vote for tulsi

39:12

you know who i think has a shot is the governor of florida okay i think he has

39:17

a shot i really do

39:19

um maybe this is gonna depress me too much maybe it will i mean i don't know

39:23

what you have to do

39:26

to uh run the country correctly what you can't do is what trump did is is say

39:33

you to the people that

39:35

don't agree with you he's he didn't unite people he was like i'm doing it and i'm

39:39

kicking ass and

39:40

you're coming with me and everybody's like yeah all the trumpsters were like

39:43

yeah but everybody else

39:44

is like ah this he riled them up he made them angry he made them furious i

39:49

understand but we can't have

39:51

any solution that could work so we have to select from this menu of the unworkable

39:56

people right well

39:57

i don't know if that's necessarily true it's just what we have at the moment it's

40:01

like you go to a

40:02

restaurant and you're like well all they ever have is hamburger that's just

40:05

what's on the menu

40:06

currently like you know another manager could take over this restaurant and

40:09

they could expand the menu

40:11

i was in cambridge massachusetts for almost 20 years and uh there was cafe algiers

40:15

and had soup of the

40:15

day and we always used to ask because every single day for 20 years it was lentil

40:20

soup every day every

40:21

day soup of the day was lentil soup well cambridge is a mess really yeah came

40:25

in a crazy place yeah you're

40:26

from massachusetts yeah i used to catch rising star all right that was like the

40:30

weirdest place to perform

40:31

it's like that was the beginning of the pc movement it was like the pc movement

40:34

in the 80s

40:35

was like the first warning shots of wokeness what we're experiencing now

40:39

actually if you go back to

40:42

clint eastwood uh in one of the dirty harry uh movies he's it's a really

40:48

interesting scene where

40:50

he's told that he has to uh approve new candidates for the force for detective

40:54

and there's a female

40:55

candidate and he's not happy but the reason he's not happy is super subtle he

41:00

asked how can how fast can

41:02

you run the 100 like his his thing is not about male versus female right it's

41:07

like don't don't touch the

41:10

requirements yeah and well that's how people feel about the military they're

41:14

they're lowering standards

41:16

of military physical tests right to uh enable more women to get involved and

41:22

the out of shape people

41:24

that's what i want i want more septuages no ageism in the special forces yeah jesus

41:30

christ well uh tim

41:32

kennedy had a post about this recently because um there was someone who is uh

41:37

he was hired by the

41:39

pentagon for some sort of diversity role right and they just let him go because

41:43

they found out that he

41:44

had some posts uh that were very questionable on social media about hitler and

41:49

trump and then so they got

41:50

rid of them they moved into a new but but the point was that there there's no

41:54

tim kennedy's point was

41:55

there's no room for the concept of diversity with trained killers it was like

42:00

our job is killing

42:01

people where there's no room for woke politics or political correctness like we're

42:06

there to get

42:07

done what are you doing jamie got something for us oh he is like we're our job

42:12

is to get done and and

42:14

and kill bad people right like there's no room for diversity you know we don't

42:18

need to send a uh

42:19

fucking south pacific trans man in to do the job because it would make

42:24

everybody look good in the

42:25

newspaper like you get the best killer for the job and they're the ones who

42:29

complete the task well but

42:30

so the idea is no relaxation of standards totally requirements yeah yeah that's

42:34

i mean that's what

42:35

buds is right when they when they choose seals it's a ruthless elimination of

42:40

anybody that's going to quit

42:42

and that they you need that you can't you can't lighten that up at all because

42:46

then you won't have

42:47

seals right you'll have some fake thing that you've you've you've created some

42:52

just you know it's like

42:53

fight training or marathon running or you you can't say you know like you don't

42:58

have to run the full 26

43:00

miles because you know you're uh this or that you know like no you gotta this

43:05

is this is the standard

43:06

this is what it is the person who wins wins like that's how it goes it's like

43:11

you got to get under

43:11

three hours or whatever the they can do it now isn't there a guy who could do

43:14

it in two hours

43:15

isn't there a dude isn't that the new the new uh you can do what in two hours

43:20

the marathon yeah

43:21

yeah the the new yeah they made a way for him to break it and like with some

43:25

funky shoes right

43:26

they did a lot of work to get it happen but it did happen and he's a beast on

43:29

top of that correct yes

43:34

you can't lighten standards man yeah you can't discourage competition because

43:37

the people that

43:38

you would like to see succeed aren't succeeding there's a place for everybody

43:42

and also you know

43:43

life is a giant spectrum of activities and disciplines and and and you know and

43:49

things

43:50

that people are in enjoying you can't you can't decide that you don't have

43:55

enough of these people in

43:56

this so you're gonna change what it is it's not enough people in basketball we're

44:00

gonna slow it down

44:01

right and what are you gonna do you know you can't action for white ballplayers

44:06

you can't do that you

44:07

can't you know it's like it is what it is yeah okay i'm with you i'm with you

44:13

and uh the problem

44:15

is if you say that you're a racist or a sexist why don't you just agree that we're

44:19

all of those things

44:21

pay the fine and get on with it but we're not i well none of those things which

44:24

doesn't matter right

44:26

yeah i think that the thing that i don't want to do is i don't want to pay the

44:29

tax every day

44:30

of course joe i'm not saying this right that's what they want you to do what's

44:34

the people that

44:34

are woke what it is is a forced compliance to an ideology and they'll bully you

44:40

into compliance before

44:41

they will hear your terms they will bully you into compliance and that's what

44:44

happened with your

44:45

brother on clubhouse yeah they bullied him into a specific conversation before

44:51

they allowed him to

44:51

speak yeah islam for example has a lot of overhead in the name of all of the

44:55

compassionate the merciful

44:56

and muhammad peace be upon but they just write pbuh so they only use up four

45:00

characters so they

45:01

don't do the whole thing but it's important we should be able but what i'm

45:04

trying to say is we

45:05

should be able to say something like pbuh about the whole thing that we have to

45:09

say every time we

45:10

want to have an opinion because it's just too expensive the overhead is killing

45:14

us i see what you're

45:15

saying yeah i i like all usual caveats i all i want to say is all usual caveats

45:22

and then i want to

45:23

abbreviate that so i go i'll give you a copy and then i can get on with what i'm

45:26

saying my hope is that

45:27

the outrage olympics will be exhausting for people yeah and they'll eventually

45:33

come out on the other end

45:35

and realize that what's important is just be nice just be nice and be a good

45:40

person and and and stop

45:41

bullshitting people how long is this taking i mean the late 60s were over the

45:47

problem is it's weaponized

45:49

i know right like accusations are weaponized and anytime something happens you

45:54

can politicize that

45:55

event and and use it but it's so effing boring i can't stand how boring it's

46:00

not just boring it's

46:02

dangerous dangerous and well this is the thing right it's it's these twin

46:06

people talk about this in terms of

46:07

like combat you know dangerous and boring and the it's much more dangerous the

46:14

more bored you get

46:15

because mostly nothing's happening right and that's the thing that uh you know

46:20

i wrote an entire article

46:21

about this with kayfabe which is that you in order to get wrestling to be

46:25

exciting you had to move away

46:26

from actual wrestling and that's the origin of professional wrestling right is

46:30

that matches would last too long

46:32

and then mostly nothing would happen and then somebody be crippled for life

46:35

yeah yeah yeah wasn't a good

46:38

business model yeah um it's just we're at a weird time where people are pushing

46:44

narratives and uh and then

46:47

other people are joining in because that narrative fits along with their

46:52

ideology even though they know

46:54

there's some horse right to what that narrative is like a good example is um do

47:00

you wear that 65 year

47:01

old woman that got beaten up in new york city it's a sad story because this guy

47:07

is all caught on security

47:08

camera there's this guy he's kicking he kicks the 65 year old woman down and

47:13

kicks her when she's down

47:15

stomps her and just it's horrific and there's these three guys at least two

47:19

guys that are watching and they

47:21

do nothing they're inside the building and they're watching like this carjacking

47:24

video where the guy's

47:25

just filming and doing nothing yeah but anyway this guy is kicking this woman

47:30

while these two guys watch

47:32

and then de blasio goes on tv and he blames it on trump he blames it on the

47:38

white house and the

47:39

current administration because it was an asian woman but what it what it was

47:44

was a guy who was released

47:46

from prison who had stabbed his mother to death so the guy was he was criminally

47:52

insane and because of

47:53

these liberal ideas about rehabilitation so i can't and murder this guy had

47:59

only done i think he'd only

48:00

done like 10 10 10 or 12 years in jail for stabbing his mom to death and so

48:06

they let him go and what

48:07

does he do he finds some woman and kicks the out of her was now here's where it

48:12

gets weird did he kick

48:13

the shit out of her because she was asian because he was aware of the

48:17

propaganda against asian people

48:19

that he that de blasio believes was influenced by donald trump's portrayal of

48:24

the virus as being the

48:26

chinese virus i don't know i can't i don't know but but every time we consider

48:29

the point is but the

48:30

point is yeah the reason why that guy did that is because he's criminally

48:34

insane it's not because

48:35

of donald trump the reason why that guy did that is because he shouldn't have

48:37

been on the street yeah

48:38

but he's a bad but they're forcing us to talk about it over and over there the

48:42

more we have to debunk

48:43

this stuff it's just a fire hose of debunkable stuff and everything takes a

48:48

half an hour to explain

48:49

what somebody screwed up in form but i think it's good to talk about because

48:54

then and then people

48:55

realize like okay what is why would he say that well because he's a bad mayor

48:59

he's a bad mayor he's bad

49:00

at his job he's you saw the video that he put out about how we have to bring

49:04

back new york city

49:04

with culture did you see that you want to you want to see the craziest thing

49:08

you've ever seen in your

49:09

life all right jamie find that it's on my uh twitter page it is it seems like a

49:14

sketch from snl back

49:15

when snl was funny it is snl still funny sometimes i shouldn't have said that

49:20

it goes for periods where

49:22

it is yeah it isn't well it's hard to do 90 minutes of live shit every week but

49:27

the point is it seems like

49:28

a sketch it seems like a parody you it's you know here's what it seems like it

49:32

seems like a scene in a

49:34

coen brothers movie where a mayor is out of his mind go go full screen and give

49:38

me some volume

49:39

because this is completely crazy watch this you're not gonna believe this

49:45

so people just listening to recovery that brings back there's people dancing in

49:53

the energy of this

49:53

city completely out of sync to be a part of and we're going to do that we're

49:57

going to really bring

49:58

back the heart and soul in new york city we need our arts and culture back and

50:01

we need people to see it and

50:02

feel it to participate in it to know that that essence of new york city has not

50:07

been defeated

50:09

by the coronavirus but will come back strong in 2021 month after month in 2021

50:14

as you see the city

50:15

come back to life culture will lead the way open culture is another thing if

50:20

you saw the video of

50:21

this you would know how preposterous this is and then this guy is talking about

50:26

they're doing

50:27

i mean they got the lispiest most uh hispanic gentleman they could find to

50:33

speak about this

50:34

hashtag open culture and so listen to this music it's it's terrible and what

50:41

are these people doing

50:43

what is this dance so they're spending money on this so this is the the city's

50:47

falling apart

50:49

restaurants are disappearing left and right small businesses are disappearing

50:52

left and right 90 of

50:54

all the moving trucks are going out of new york city and this is this is his

50:59

solution to this because

51:00

these people don't have any respect for business they they somehow or another

51:04

think this money falls out

51:06

of trees and that you just need to redistribute this money because the rich

51:11

people they have too much of

51:12

it so redistribute this money and the way we're going to redistribute it we're

51:15

going to open up

51:16

culture and we're going to bring back dance like what the is that like what is

51:20

that imagine

51:22

that you are the mayor of one of the biggest cities on planet earth and that's

51:27

your solution

51:28

like this is a big video that you put together and you have these people

51:32

dancing and doing all this

51:33

it's so uncoordinated the music is so bad it seems like a sketch this is what

51:38

you're dealing with and

51:40

this is the same guy that was saying that donald trump was responsible for this

51:43

criminally insane person

51:45

who kicked the out of this poor old lady can't like i i listen to this stuff joe

51:51

and i i just despair

51:54

i know what we're capable of i know how amazing we are as human beings and i

51:59

and i watched this stuff

52:01

like imagine you had palobulus right you ever seen palobulus what's palobulus

52:07

can i say this yeah

52:09

jamie pull that up pull up palobulus jamie it seems like an old greek guy that

52:15

i'm not aware of yeah

52:17

one of the great dance philosophers of all time palobulus palobulus okay jamie

52:21

you're not aware of it

52:22

either good i don't feel alone i i i know what you're saying i mean it's

52:27

terrible even if you're

52:28

going to make a wrong point you're in new york city how much great dance is

52:31

there you know you're right

52:33

i've seen stuff on the subway using the polls and everything that's available

52:37

yes blow my yeah guaranteed

52:40

they could have had break dancers out there they could they could have had hip-hop

52:43

guys out there doing

52:44

like stance elements guys and it would have been amazing what do you got you

52:48

got something crazy why

52:50

smiling i'm not sure what i'm looking up palobulus dance okay that's all right

52:55

palobulus dance is this

52:56

palobulus there he goes we are palobulus

52:59

oh wow yeah okay so these are talented dancers yeah yeah this is difficult yeah

53:08

it's really

53:08

unbelievably difficult unbelievably gorgeous beautiful difficult okay if you

53:13

saw that as an example

53:16

that can blow your mind very quickly and sure yeah yeah for sure yeah no i'm

53:22

not against dance i got

53:24

your point but that was that thing was nonsense but here's what i think it's

53:27

almost better yeah when

53:29

it's irrefutable when the nonsense like de blasio's video or him saying that

53:34

this guy who got out of jail

53:36

recently for stabbing his mother to death that the reason why he kicked the

53:39

show this asian lady was

53:40

because of donald trump this guy might not have even known donald trump was a

53:43

thing did you see my graph

53:46

from like google ngrams which was uh diversity and inclusion usage versus most

53:51

qualified and they

53:53

cross in 2017 and most qualified is going down and diversity inclusion is going

53:57

through the roof you

53:59

know like we can talk about this but i want to know every cool thing that you

54:05

know and like this

54:06

it's just dumb it is and it's corroding my soul but it's happening i'm getting

54:12

worse it's like it's

54:12

like playing tennis with people who can't play tennis right and you used to be

54:15

really good at tennis and

54:17

now like when you fight people do you want to fight people who suck no you

54:21

certainly you're going to get

54:21

injured well worse than that you're going to get a false sense of your

54:25

abilities yeah and you're also going to

54:27

degree like all sorts of bad things jamie's got something else going on i was

54:30

looking this up this

54:31

is what i was seeing that he blames the state parole system oh well he's right

54:36

about that but what i saw

54:37

him was saying that it was donald trump my incorrect here i tried to find even

54:41

him blaming trump for it

54:42

and wasn't seeing well he was blaming what happened in dc that's what he was

54:46

saying and someone someone

54:48

had a video exposing that that it was not as well it could have just if that's

54:52

true well he's correct here

54:53

he blames the state parole system well then i take it back because he's

54:56

absolutely right with that

54:57

there's no way that guy should have been let out maybe he had one statement on

55:01

it and now today he's

55:03

released a different one because he wasn't standing in front of these flags

55:06

like this was a different

55:07

scene i believe and you saw that carjacking in dc i did this is i'll take this

55:12

back then because he's

55:13

definitely correct there's no way that guy should have been on parole that guy

55:17

murdered his mother

55:19

you know and then he attacked that lady in in midtown so maybe i'm wrong maybe

55:27

i maybe got duped because

55:28

i watched a whole video where they were explaining what was i forget i don't

55:31

even remember who who was

55:33

hosting the video but they were talking about how wrong his perspective is on

55:39

that hey uh but i did see

55:43

the the the guy that got his car car i just i just despaired the fact that the

55:48

girl you know that's

55:49

what jamie correct i guess this is for an older thing though this is from 2016

55:53

where he's blaming

55:53

trump and hate speech for rising hate crimes so no that was a different one

55:57

okay well i don't think he

55:59

necessarily said trump he was just talking about well i don't know i'm not sure

56:04

but the point is yeah he's

56:06

right he's right he's right it is the parole system that did that but this uh

56:12

this carjacking this is

56:13

these are my perspective on the carjacking is different because they're a 13

56:17

year old and a 15

56:18

year old kid they're children can they freshen you yeah yeah yeah i mean you're

56:22

talking about

56:23

you know re a really unfortunate situation where you have these young kids

56:29

that stole this uber driver's car and he tried to stop that from happening and

56:34

wound up dying it's

56:35

horrific if you've never seen the video please don't watch it it's hard it's

56:39

horrible well the

56:40

part hardest part for me is where the girl says my phone is in the car yeah and

56:43

and the guy is dead

56:45

nobody cares about the guy thrown from the car like the the the troops or the

56:49

national guard doesn't

56:50

seem to care the girls don't seem to care i don't think the national guard at

56:54

that moment

56:55

necessarily knew what happened well it was very confusing but you know yeah she

56:58

practically trips

56:59

over the guy trying to get to her phone in the car no it's awful it's it's

57:02

certainly awful but my soul

57:05

is corroding from all this stuff i'm watching this and i'm internalizing it and

57:08

i'm i know i'm supposed

57:09

to sort of take a step back i am so worried about the degradation of who we are

57:16

because we can't figure

57:17

out how to say no mas i i think this is different see the the the i'm not in

57:23

any way exonerating those

57:26

young girls who stole that car and killed that guy but i think the national

57:29

guard people that pulled up

57:31

on the scene i don't think they knew what happened i don't think they had it

57:33

there's no way they could

57:34

have known these girls confusing situation this guy's dead the car's flipped

57:38

over the girls are in shock

57:40

right the girl's saying where's my phone like i i don't blame the the guard

57:44

guys probably are horrified

57:46

once they realized that this these girls had stole this guy's car and i don't

57:51

if you're a 13 year old

57:52

kid and you steal a car and all of a sudden the guy's dead you're probably you're

57:57

probably your whole

57:58

life is probably yeah but what i'm worried about you probably have no idea what

58:02

the just happened

58:03

i'm worried about something i'm calling video game mode which is the more i

58:07

stare at my screen and

58:08

then i have to contact switch between my screen and real life my screen real

58:12

life yeah the more real life

58:13

feels like my screen the more i can't tell the difference and it's not that i'm

58:17

dumb it's that's

58:18

my pro my evolutionary programming doesn't know anything about this screen i

58:22

know what you're

58:22

saying and what my concern is is that we don't feel our own life and our own

58:27

interest anymore like

58:29

we don't realize what we're doing we imagine that we are characters in a video

58:33

game there's always a

58:34

restart there's always some exploit that you can use to start again and i'm

58:42

increasingly feeling like

58:44

reality is slipping away from us because the phone it's a little bit like what

58:49

happened with porn we

58:50

thought that porn was going to habituate us to like non-standard sexual

58:54

practices and to an extent it did

58:56

but i don't think what we really understood is that it was going to rewire us

58:59

so that it was very

59:00

difficult to get aroused about anything because it changes your hedonic

59:04

thresholds i think the same

59:06

thing is true for real for real life versus the phone the phone is in some

59:10

sense so much more intense

59:11

for most people that that environment starts to blot out the feeling of being

59:18

fully alive so you you think

59:21

that the reason why they were so desensitized i can't say that because it's

59:26

shock it's a crazy

59:27

situation it's the first few seconds fog can be the explanation however i

59:32

increasingly see people

59:33

like the capitol hill thing on january 6th very clearly that woman was you know

59:40

dealing with a loaded

59:41

pistol right and you see the guy who's holding the gun take the finger and

59:48

bring it inside the trigger guard

59:51

and then he goes back out because he's like pointing it at her and he

59:55

understands what he's doing it's

59:57

like please don't advance and she she has an idea that somehow she's protected

1:00:02

because she's part of

1:00:03

this romantic yeah story in her own mind and yeah i see what you're saying you

1:00:09

know i i really believe

1:00:11

that the viking and like all of the trump you know and all of the stuff people

1:00:16

don't feel fully alive

1:00:18

they don't realize we are actually attacking the capitol building of the united

1:00:21

states of america

1:00:22

that they didn't realize what they were doing while they were doing it i think

1:00:25

i don't think that's

1:00:26

true we're in a sort of live action role playing and i believe that you know

1:00:30

sometimes people probably

1:00:31

going to combat that way maybe i think those people genuinely thought that they

1:00:37

were patriots yep and i also

1:00:39

think a lot of them are genuinely not bright there's a lot of those guys that i

1:00:44

saw being interviewed where

1:00:45

they were talking about why they were doing out of it i watch people snap out a

1:00:49

lot of people like the

1:00:50

moment that i realized i was too far in and then such and such it was like you

1:00:53

caught up in the crowd

1:00:55

yeah you get caught up in the but also i watched people like particularly that

1:00:59

guy with the buffalo hat on

1:01:00

that got interviewed that's a dumb guy he's a dumb guy who is good at stringing

1:01:06

words together with you

1:01:08

know q anon themes the guy smiling with the podium with the lectern yeah yeah

1:01:13

there was a lot of that

1:01:14

going on these these are men mostly there's a few women but men who are unexceptional

1:01:22

that think they're

1:01:23

exceptional because they're tied into a thing that they believe is like a

1:01:27

movement yeah to uh to free

1:01:30

to i think they just believe democracy is being served in some strange well no

1:01:37

look there were two

1:01:38

narratives yeah there was a narrative called stop the steal and there was a

1:01:41

narrative called certify

1:01:42

the election and they avoided themselves as long as they possibly could and i

1:01:47

was watching them and i

1:01:48

did a tweet storm on january 4th because i could see january 6th was going to

1:01:52

be the arc point

1:01:53

very often you know when you say twitter isn't real life it really isn't up

1:01:57

until it arcs and

1:01:59

then you get a spark across it and then it becomes like real life yeah exactly

1:02:02

it is real life right

1:02:03

and so there are these twin narrative problems where you've got these two

1:02:07

incompatible worldviews

1:02:09

and these stories and they avoid each other like two guys circling each i'm

1:02:12

gonna you up yeah but

1:02:14

both of them know that like once we actually engage it's pretty unpredictable

1:02:18

what's about to happen

1:02:20

that's what i think you could see coming for january 6th it had to happen that

1:02:24

way in a weird way

1:02:25

because the the narratives that avoided each other for the maximal length of

1:02:29

time because nobody wanted

1:02:31

to have this out and then it was impossible to stop the two from arcing and the

1:02:37

plates got too close

1:02:38

together that's what i really believe i see what you're saying so what you're

1:02:41

saying is that you think that

1:02:44

there's two worlds that aren't communicating with each other and both of them

1:02:48

believe wholeheartedly

1:02:49

in what they're doing without listening to whatever might be reasonable that's

1:02:53

coming from the other

1:02:54

side and then they collide and there's no way of squaring the circle like at

1:02:58

some point there will be a

1:03:00

donald trump presidency or a joe biden presidency and once you realize that

1:03:04

your story has collapsed it's

1:03:06

it's like a doomsday cult you say it's going to end on such and such a day and

1:03:10

then it doesn't and

1:03:12

then what happens to the cult because everybody had the same concept i think

1:03:15

that if you look at like

1:03:16

if you listen to the audio from the jim jones uh jonestown massacre yeah it's

1:03:21

very clear that they got

1:03:22

caught up in a story that they couldn't get out of that's what happens in all

1:03:25

cults right yeah exactly

1:03:27

and the story becomes the software that you're running like there's this one

1:03:32

woman um named hyacinth

1:03:35

who hid under her bed and survived you know survived jonestown oh you know her

1:03:42

sister perished

1:03:44

um and somehow she ran a program that was different than the program ever

1:03:51

because you you have the

1:03:52

recordings people know that they're going to their death they know the software

1:03:55

is telling them that this

1:03:56

is the right thing it's it's a revolutionary suicide and i saw this with people

1:04:03

you know i was trying

1:04:04

to tell people because i i didn't believe the election was necessarily free and

1:04:07

fair but i also

1:04:07

didn't believe that it was stolen in the way that donald trump was saying it

1:04:12

was stolen i feel the exact

1:04:14

same way yeah so you know i was watching people who couldn't negotiate they

1:04:17

couldn't keep their footing

1:04:19

and this is you know they're also struggling to find like when they went around

1:04:25

with their team

1:04:26

exactly right i was going to say the same thing people who feel comfortable

1:04:29

being alone are in a

1:04:30

different situation than people who say well i have to pick a team constantly

1:04:34

right right and you

1:04:36

know the the greatest thing that has ever happened to me is the ability to

1:04:39

stand alone for some periods

1:04:41

of time i do need a family i need to be a part of something but there are times

1:04:45

when there is no team that

1:04:47

it represents reality we all need people we all do i hate to admit it but you're

1:04:52

right yeah we all need

1:04:53

loved ones and friends and people don't operate well that's why when you're in

1:04:57

prison the worst thing

1:04:59

they could do to you in prison is to leave you alone yeah you're in a fucking

1:05:03

cement building filled with

1:05:04

rapists and murderers the worst shit they can do is leave you alone it's a

1:05:07

really interesting point strange

1:05:09

we are uh very social animals but the one it's like the ones that can go the

1:05:16

longest in solitude and

1:05:19

just think by themselves there's a great benefit to that i was forced into it

1:05:23

because when i was a

1:05:24

when i was a kid we moved around a lot we moved when i was seven to san francisco

1:05:29

when i was 11 we

1:05:29

moved to florida when i was 13 we moved to boston i was forced to form my own

1:05:33

opinions about things

1:05:34

because i didn't have a steady group of friends where we all agreed on a

1:05:38

certain narrative right

1:05:39

that's a real problem with people in this country agreeing on a certain

1:05:42

narrative where you know

1:05:44

socially that you have a contract you have to uphold you're socially you're you're

1:05:49

you're in intertwined

1:05:51

with this narrative and you can't think outside the body if you say hey guys

1:05:55

you know i don't think

1:05:56

there's anything wrong with that like let's look at this logically they go what

1:05:58

the is wrong with you

1:06:00

and then you got a real problem because the people they people want compliance

1:06:04

this is what's going on

1:06:06

with wokeness okay what a lot of what wokeness is is these socially low status

1:06:15

people who are gaining

1:06:18

power right by enforcing this narrative and attacking people who don't enforce

1:06:23

the narrative right they're

1:06:24

bullying people who don't enforce the narrative you know you know the phrase

1:06:29

hurt people hurt people

1:06:31

yeah all the time well people have been bullied they tend to bully people

1:06:34

kidding and a lot of

1:06:35

fucking dorks when you know they've been pushed around in high school and

1:06:38

college and socially they've

1:06:40

been very awkward my god they get on that goddamn computer and they attack and

1:06:44

they love to attack well

1:06:46

tim ferris tried to do bigoteer and other people tried cry bullies so what's a

1:06:50

bigoteer bigoteer is

1:06:51

somebody who traffics oh that's that's it's pretty good right great phrase tim's

1:06:55

good yeah um but cry

1:06:57

bully is another one and hurt people hurt people all of these things get at

1:07:01

this concept and i do think

1:07:02

that this issue about how con what does it take to be alone for a long time and

1:07:08

then the part of the

1:07:09

problem is those of us who are very good at being alone for a long time can

1:07:13

overstay you can overstay being

1:07:15

you know and then you're next thing you know you're ted kaczynski well

1:07:17

mathematician yes

1:07:20

speaking of which i asked you for this date april 1st this is a favor to me

1:07:26

yeah why

1:07:27

i want you to have this what is this nonsense you give me a stack of papers

1:07:33

you know i don't like reading you're not gonna be able to read it oh this is

1:07:36

your new your unity theory

1:07:38

this is the first copy that got to version 1.0 i want you to have it and listen

1:07:45

you lost me there's

1:07:46

all these equations in here and jamie take this and make something out of it

1:07:50

what is this i believe

1:07:53

and this is the this is the hardest this is the hardest part um how do you have

1:07:58

time to do this

1:07:59

while you're still in clubhouse i'm not really in clubhouse it's a bot that low

1:08:04

quality stuff i push

1:08:07

um this is something that i've been uncomfortable about sharing i've been in a

1:08:14

what i call the ice

1:08:15

cave for about 37 years and i shared a little bit of it in 2013 and i shared a

1:08:19

little bit of it last

1:08:20

year april 1st and i am coming to grips with a story and in part you don't know

1:08:28

this but you've

1:08:29

been playing a large role in my thinking um about this and well that's a

1:08:36

problem no no i reviewed this

1:08:40

weird episode of you at the at the store when you took a break for seven years

1:08:46

and i looked at the courage

1:08:51

that you had to do that you had to have to do something unfunny in a funny

1:08:56

context i think it was an

1:08:58

incredibly difficult situation and i think i've been running from a similar

1:09:03

situation my whole life i

1:09:04

don't want to face certain unpleasant facts that are out of keeping with the

1:09:09

joy that i feel with the

1:09:10

love with the creativity that i feel and i don't want to let certain kinds of

1:09:16

negativity take over my life

1:09:18

and then i have this other thing which is i legitimately believe that if we are

1:09:24

not very careful

1:09:25

theoretical physics is coming to an end and i believe it is our only hope for

1:09:28

getting outside the solar

1:09:30

system when you have elon on and he talks about mars or bust and all this kind

1:09:33

of stuff

1:09:34

i cannot understand how mankind has gotten to the point where we are not

1:09:40

spending our efforts trying

1:09:41

to figure out how to spread out so that we don't self-extinguish on one two or

1:09:46

three rocks

1:09:48

it just doesn't make us any sense to me and the best hope we have is to go

1:09:53

beyond einstein and we're

1:09:56

we're losing the belief that we're capable of it we're so worried about the

1:10:02

professional norms and

1:10:03

humiliation and what's going to happen if we say something and what our

1:10:07

colleagues are going to say

1:10:09

and all of this stuff that we're self-censoring and we're silencing ourselves

1:10:13

because we'd rather be

1:10:17

in good standing on the titanic than risk saying holy we're in an iceberg field

1:10:22

let's think about how

1:10:24

we're going to survive this and i've been being a about this well what is it

1:10:30

explain what it is what

1:10:32

what is this thing that you you handed me what is this it is okay this is the

1:10:37

hardest thing for me to

1:10:38

say because i have to not hedge it i think it's the theory of everything and

1:10:42

what do you mean by that

1:10:43

there is a moment where you have to say this i believe about a radical

1:10:52

departure and you don't

1:10:53

want to say it because you want to hedge it it is jamie if you could bring that

1:10:59

up

1:11:01

and you go a little bit uh maybe two pages in is this available online so

1:11:06

someone can peruse it

1:11:07

in fact uh okay right there on the left

1:11:10

go down that table you see where it says x4 yes x4 is four parameters it could

1:11:21

be salty sweet

1:11:24

sour bitter it could be low uh treble medium uh base and volume and the

1:11:32

question that i took from

1:11:36

einstein was can we generate the world everything from something as innocuous

1:11:43

as four parameters

1:11:44

and if you think about a fertilized egg somebody can hand you a picture of an

1:11:48

embryo and in vitro

1:11:49

fertilization you're like well that's your that's your child to be you're like

1:11:52

get the out well that

1:11:55

fertilized egg somehow self-assembles into something that you cannot even

1:12:00

imagine

1:12:00

and that's a mystery the question is in some sense can four parameters

1:12:07

bootstrap itself and it jamie if you go to the first picture of the two hands

1:12:13

the escher sketch yeah

1:12:17

yeah that is this weird paradox can a piece of paper effectively will two hands

1:12:25

into drawing

1:12:26

each other into existence that's what i believe makes the theory of everything

1:12:30

so difficult i don't

1:12:31

think it's the wait a minute yeah piece of paper didn't will exactly hands into

1:12:36

exactly themselves

1:12:38

into existence that's the point is so not an idea mc escher had an idea of what

1:12:43

uh douglas hofstetter

1:12:44

called a strange loop and it's a depiction of something that can't happen but

1:12:51

in some sense at

1:12:52

least was conceived of as being happened being able to happen okay and so that's

1:12:58

what i tried to give

1:13:00

you which is i am scared to do this thing i've been avoiding this for let me

1:13:03

ask you this yeah what's

1:13:05

been the criticism of this well because people have criticized it right in one

1:13:10

year i've seen one

1:13:12

actual critique only one only one is that because you haven't looked for other

1:13:19

ones

1:13:19

nope i think two guys um i think it's two guys one of them is anonymous and i

1:13:25

refuse to deal with an

1:13:26

anonymous coward uh who critiques me uh came up with three basic criticisms and

1:13:33

they'll have more because

1:13:34

there'll be errors in this but two of the criticisms are inferential they

1:13:39

imagine that i'm doing something

1:13:41

that i'm not doing one of the criticisms is valid but it's something that i

1:13:44

would have brought up anyway

1:13:45

um the most astounding thing about their uh so-called paper is that it shows

1:13:54

that what i put out a year ago in

1:13:56

the lecture on youtube is understandable in other words they got from the

1:14:01

lecture

1:14:02

what the basic setup of this this theory is i want you to boil this down so

1:14:07

that someone who doesn't

1:14:08

understand physics at all great will understand this in a way that they could

1:14:13

maybe even explain to

1:14:15

someone else go to jamie pull pull that up jamie.com

1:14:19

try pull that up jamie.com

1:14:28

okay collection of videos in support of geometric unity epic troll

1:14:43

who put that uh um go to the bottom of this there is a team of people

1:14:49

um brooke dallas brandon stone boku a mysterious german who does amazing

1:14:55

graphics

1:14:56

tim the mirthless swagman from australia aardvark and nick who have been um let's

1:15:03

just go up to the top

1:15:03

so for example dramatizing einstein's uh the greatest insight of the 20th

1:15:11

century arguably

1:15:12

hit click on the one on the left and blow it up

1:15:15

einstein took a curvature tensor which has three components called vial traceless

1:15:22

ricci

1:15:23

and ricci scalar snapped the vial off and readjusted the vial scaler

1:15:27

to get it to live in a space not called curvature but metrics that is saying

1:15:33

that curvature influences

1:15:34

how we measure length and angle okay now this is an einsteinian metric for two

1:15:40

dimensions you can have it this he

1:15:42

gave me something that looks like uh hedge clippers well it's two rulers their

1:15:47

hair ties on the two rulers

1:15:48

and a protractor okay okay so there are three dimensions of ruler two

1:15:53

dimensions of ruler and one

1:15:55

dimension of protractor okay now if you'll the idea is heat einstein took

1:16:02

curvature and fed it back into

1:16:05

the space of rulers and protractors to say how the rulers and protractors would

1:16:10

warp

1:16:10

okay so that we can actually define gravity now that's that is a visual

1:16:17

depiction of the einstein

1:16:19

field equations which if i wrote them down would mean nothing to you okay and

1:16:22

the key point is that

1:16:23

einstein figured out you had to get rid of a component called the vial

1:16:26

curvature and readjust the ricci

1:16:29

scalar to put it into the space of rulers and protractors which i bought from

1:16:33

amazon strangely

1:16:34

enough and people you see i don't think in symbols i think in pictures now the

1:16:39

insight of geometric unity

1:16:41

if you'll go zoom out

1:16:43

is that if you if you do the smaller uh neck like we had a huge bottle to get

1:16:53

it into metrics there's

1:16:54

another space people are listening to this you know they're not they're not

1:16:57

just seeing it very few

1:16:58

people are seeing well maybe like 30 okay if this is a problem yeah this

1:17:04

conversation is a problem

1:17:06

because uh people are gonna have to the people are tuning out right now okay

1:17:10

well if you go to pull

1:17:12

that up jamie duck look there's no way in which i can talk about tensor

1:17:15

analysis curvature tensors the

1:17:17

theory of everything i understand but i want you to boil this down you're not

1:17:19

boiling it down at all

1:17:20

why did you do this and what are you trying to accomplish with this well first

1:17:25

of all what i'm trying

1:17:26

to do is to say we don't have to talk about this this is just something i

1:17:29

wanted to do on your show

1:17:31

as a thank you because you've been you've been huge for me and the courage to

1:17:36

take the slings and

1:17:38

arrows that are going to come at me as i put this online which is what i'm

1:17:42

going to do today today yeah

1:17:44

so this hasn't been online before correct so the people that are you're going

1:17:48

to do it in front of

1:17:49

us live oh my goodness it's going down all right so this says launch gu boom

1:17:55

people can now and this

1:17:57

is going to debut tomorrow because we don't release today um but it's april

1:18:01

fools and they can download

1:18:03

this as of tomorrow when they see this okay and they can peruse it and there

1:18:08

can be all sorts of

1:18:09

problems and errors but it's a com it's a complete story of who we are what

1:18:13

this place is it's my

1:18:15

guess universe life everything everything everything what made you want to do

1:18:20

this what made me want

1:18:21

to study the problem yeah tell me joe when you ask why as a kid what happens if

1:18:29

you keep asking you

1:18:31

either end up in theoretical physics or an insane asylum right or just keep

1:18:35

asking questions no no you

1:18:37

stop somewhere you stopped somewhere if you don't end up in theoretical physics

1:18:42

it means you stopped

1:18:43

at some point asking why and so i just didn't stop

1:18:47

and the issue of like we are here and we're looking at all these crazy things

1:18:55

you have arrayed in front of

1:18:56

us um these things are understandable but they're locked in a system of symbols

1:19:04

so if i put a page

1:19:05

of the stuff in front of you you may go as they say my eyes glaze over right so

1:19:10

for example the light

1:19:12

in this room is tied to something called a u1 principal bundle but you're not

1:19:16

going to understand what

1:19:17

a u1 principal bundle is however i got your present what is that it's water

1:19:23

that is a u1 principal bundle

1:19:26

it's a water wiggle but remember the time i showed you the hop vibration and

1:19:30

you're like what the

1:19:31

is that right that was a u1 bundle over the two-dimensional sphere which was

1:19:35

the earth this is

1:19:36

a u1 bundle over the one-dimensional sphere alias the circle and as you do that

1:19:41

fidget toy you're

1:19:42

spinning that circle over and over again so this is an actual model of a gauge

1:19:48

theoretic concept that

1:19:50

somehow nobody in the history has ever mentioned to me that you can buy u1

1:19:53

principal bundles from amazon

1:19:55

for under 10 bucks and i could you if we had the opportunity i don't know what

1:19:59

the you just said

1:20:01

how about that okay do you do you know what he said if i showed look i can show

1:20:06

you on video but

1:20:07

then we're not on video right we are 30 of the people are watching yeah but

1:20:11

maybe more but i don't

1:20:12

but they can go to pull that up jamie.com yes they can watch these videos and

1:20:18

what i'm going to do over

1:20:20

time is to show people visually without symbols in other words if i say romanian

1:20:26

metric they're not

1:20:27

going to know what i'm talking about if i hand them rulers and protractors and

1:20:30

a video of it

1:20:31

they're like i don't know about the symbols but i can follow an actual concrete

1:20:35

thing that thing that

1:20:36

water wiggle the idea that that's a u1 principle bundle that is one of the

1:20:41

deepest things we only

1:20:42

figured out in the 1970s that the light in this room comes from effectively

1:20:47

seeing the world as having a

1:20:49

water wiggle structure on top of it now i'm not expecting on this show what

1:20:54

that means the light

1:20:56

comes from having seeing the world having a water on those structure on top of

1:21:00

it that that you can

1:21:02

rotate these right if i if i if i squish a water wiggle and it goes around yes

1:21:07

that is called a g

1:21:09

action g is the group of symmetries i'm taking the symmetries of a donut okay

1:21:14

and i'm playing with this

1:21:16

thing and it's going out of my hand right this is the structure that gauge

1:21:20

theories which we've talked

1:21:22

about before which lawrence krauss has been on your problem nobody can what's a

1:21:25

gauge theory man it's

1:21:27

just so mumbo-jumbo yeah he had a hard time describing it okay if we spent an

1:21:31

afternoon with a

1:21:32

water wiggle or those videos which we can't do because of your audience i

1:21:35

understand that

1:21:36

you could understand what a gauge theory is because you'd never see a symbol

1:21:40

there would

1:21:41

never be a symbol between you and understanding why there's light in this room

1:21:45

the light in this

1:21:46

room comes from a water wiggle structure about a circle that nobody's ever seen

1:21:51

that is at every

1:21:52

point in space and time which is one of the great discoveries that we've made

1:21:55

that nobody seems to

1:21:56

care about so how is it a water wiggle structure because there's a there's a

1:22:00

circle

1:22:01

at every point that we can't perceive the circle everywhere in space in space

1:22:06

above space that we

1:22:07

can rotate a circle how big we don't know okay but this circle somehow or

1:22:13

another does rotates

1:22:15

rotates and there is a four-dimensional cross section like this is three

1:22:20

dimensions here and one

1:22:22

dimension of time because our conversation is progressing that's four

1:22:24

dimensions that four dimensions

1:22:28

forms a cross section to that water wiggly structure that we didn't know about

1:22:32

because it's invisible

1:22:34

okay and that's what photons and how do we know about that water wiggle

1:22:37

structure we know about that

1:22:39

water wiggle structure because we wrote down the equations called maxwell's

1:22:43

equations that unified all

1:22:45

all sorts of things that have to do with photons magnetism electricity x-rays

1:22:50

radio waves all of that

1:22:53

stuff got subsumed into one really one equation called called maxwell's

1:22:58

equation that equation presupposes

1:23:02

a circle out of nowhere we didn't know that there was a circle but we wrote

1:23:06

down equations and the equations

1:23:08

told us hey numb nuts there's a circle that rotates just the way this water

1:23:13

wiggle rotates at every

1:23:14

point in space time that you can't see it because that's the only way those

1:23:17

equations make sense

1:23:18

now you'll hear people like you'll have sean carroll on who want to talk about

1:23:22

the multiverse right or

1:23:24

neil degrasse tyson will want to tell you how big the universe is and somehow

1:23:27

people don't want to tell

1:23:28

you there's a circle around so we can see each other i don't know why it's not

1:23:32

fascinating well it's very

1:23:34

complicated and even the way you're explaining to me is not resonating well if

1:23:38

i can show it to you on a

1:23:39

video but i don't want to ruin the show so the the part of the problem is but i'm

1:23:43

not sure that the

1:23:44

video would even show do you understand what he's saying a little but not

1:23:48

really you know in essence

1:23:50

the photons that we see are the levels from which we measure a derivative which

1:23:58

is rise over run above

1:24:00

a level the level that we see is the photon in essence and the thing that we're

1:24:05

differentiating is the electron

1:24:07

so electrons are like functions and photons are like horizontal levels from

1:24:13

which we measure rise

1:24:14

over run to take the derivative and then the idea that we have partial

1:24:17

differential equations is how

1:24:19

photons zing off of me and hit your eye and we see each other okay that world

1:24:24

of waves colliding like

1:24:26

everything in this in this place is waves in collision with each other waves

1:24:31

interacting

1:24:32

the story of us is the story of interacting waves and the waves obey partial

1:24:37

differential equations

1:24:38

so the fact that you have derivatives which allow you to to define the

1:24:43

derivative in partial differential

1:24:44

equations differentials are derivatives are determined by levels which is on

1:24:50

this page of videos we've made for

1:24:52

you guys and those things allow you to define the equations for waves which we

1:24:59

are so when you talk

1:25:01

about the theory of everything what you're actually saying is tell me about a

1:25:04

medium waves in the medium

1:25:07

and rules for how waves behave moving around in the medium that's what a theory

1:25:11

is okay that's what this is

1:25:14

it's a theory in which four dimensions births some elaborate crazy setup which

1:25:21

has interacting waves

1:25:22

that look like electrons up quarks down quarks protons neutrons gamma radiation

1:25:29

beta radiation alpha

1:25:30

particles that's the story of us and how did all that weird get into our world

1:25:36

to form like everything in

1:25:39

here is made up of up quarks down quarks and electrons held together by forced

1:25:42

particles it's like an

1:25:44

incredibly economical statement about look at all the diverse here that's what

1:25:49

this is about and

1:25:51

what i believe is is that we'll never have we'll never take the time it's like

1:25:56

let's spend a day

1:25:57

talking about this and do it at a blackboard and do it with videos like we we

1:26:01

spent hundreds of hours

1:26:03

making these videos to show you what these concepts are now i understand the

1:26:08

constraints of the show

1:26:09

and i'm totally fine with that but the point is i believe that with artists and

1:26:14

with imagination we

1:26:16

can actually show you what these structures are i can draw lines with pens and

1:26:21

show you what a derivative

1:26:23

is on a water wiggle and you can say okay you're doing calculus on a water

1:26:28

wiggle and there's a water

1:26:29

wiggle like structure in the world which i never heard about and that's what

1:26:34

gives me light electromagnetism

1:26:35

all this all the stuff i know and love that keeps electrons bound to protons

1:26:39

and hydrogen atoms

1:26:40

that weird world of waves interacting with each other according to derivative

1:26:47

equations where the

1:26:47

derivatives are determined from levels called gauge potentials is visualizable

1:26:54

with with videos that we've

1:26:55

been making and the hope is is that this is for experts and they're going to

1:26:58

have their day and

1:26:59

they're going to piss all over and they're going to be angry and mean and that's

1:27:02

going to happen

1:27:03

but at the end of that process hopefully the ideas herein contained could

1:27:11

change the world it's the

1:27:12

first time i've ever seen somebody tell a complete story about how did this

1:27:17

place fill up with all

1:27:18

this crazy stuff assuming almost nothing to begin with it's like a fertilized

1:27:23

egg hypothesis show me

1:27:25

a minimal amount i can assume and drag out the you know falling in love on a

1:27:30

park bench in in early

1:27:32

may you know like that that's how crazy the story has to be when you have a

1:27:36

fertilized egg and it

1:27:37

becomes your child the the story of development of how the how something births

1:27:42

itself is what this is a story about

1:27:45

and that literally can explain falling in love on a park bench we can't get

1:27:49

there

1:27:49

but we don't believe if we're materialists we believe that there's nothing

1:27:53

other than protons neutrons

1:27:55

electrons gluons holding these things together are you a materialist

1:28:00

if i wrestle with if i say this i believe about this

1:28:05

i have to wrestle with the problem that there's not a lot of room for magic

1:28:13

but isn't magic subjective isn't the idea of magic just our own personal

1:28:17

experience because

1:28:18

everything is magic if you've never experienced it if it didn't exist you know

1:28:23

there was this guy

1:28:25

paul durac who's really einstein's only rival in the 20th century and in 1963

1:28:31

he wrote this article

1:28:32

in scientific america where he said something insane and he said schrodinger

1:28:37

was led into error

1:28:39

because he put too much weight on the particulars of agreement with experiment

1:28:44

with his equations and

1:28:45

he was missing something called spin but the essence of his idea was so

1:28:50

beautiful that if he'd embraced

1:28:52

beauty rather than the scientific method he would have gotten farther quicker

1:28:56

and almost everyone who tries

1:29:00

this crashes on the rocks everybody who tries to throw away the scientific

1:29:05

method in in service of beauty

1:29:07

almost cracks up and the exception is the three guys who really wrote down

1:29:12

physical laws

1:29:13

that govern everything else that we know about the world but why why do you

1:29:18

have to throw out the

1:29:18

scientific method in service of beauty like couldn't it just be a part of the

1:29:23

equation of life itself it's a

1:29:25

human exists inside the experience of human beings ultimately humans can't

1:29:29

throw out the scientific

1:29:31

method scientific method is the last word right but what but why would you in

1:29:35

the service of beauty

1:29:36

i don't understand why the two are mutually exclusive because if i say

1:29:40

something early and there's the

1:29:43

slightest problem with what i say that is the instance of what i'm saying like

1:29:47

i have an idea

1:29:49

which is you know i've got it we're going to sell uh skulls to native americans

1:29:55

right okay that's an

1:29:57

instance of an idea right it's not you know the general idea might be let's go

1:30:01

into business and sell

1:30:02

things okay the initial instance of every great idea about the world has always

1:30:09

been wrong einstein always

1:30:12

yeah well i think if you take the let's take the 20th century start with 1900

1:30:16

einstein gets it wrong

1:30:18

initially his first equation is wrong dirac who gives us the equation for

1:30:23

matter so einstein does

1:30:25

gravity dirac tells us that the proton and the electron which are oppositely

1:30:30

charged are antiparticles

1:30:31

of each other and heisenberg says you're an idiot the proton is enormous the

1:30:36

electron is tiny they'd

1:30:37

have to be of the same math mass okay then dirac gave us this theory of matter

1:30:42

we couldn't compute

1:30:43

with it for almost 20 years because everything blew up in our face these are

1:30:47

the instances the

1:30:48

instantiations of great ideas the instances of great ideas are almost always

1:30:53

flawed and yang and

1:30:57

mills who came up with the generalization of the light equation maxwell's

1:31:00

equations didn't have mass in

1:31:03

their equation so that they couldn't suppress something called beta decay which

1:31:06

is a kind of radioactivity

1:31:08

and the world would be taken over by beta decay if you couldn't make certain

1:31:11

particles massive

1:31:12

every time we try one of these things our first few instantiations are usually

1:31:17

wrong

1:31:18

okay and what dirac was giving us and which we didn't understand is he's saying

1:31:25

at the beginning don't take the training wheels off the training wheels are

1:31:29

like beauty look for

1:31:31

internal coherence look for some kinds of symmetry look for some deep idea and

1:31:36

don't immediately run

1:31:38

to say is there an error is there an agreement with experiment because those

1:31:43

things will have to wait

1:31:44

for the mature instantiation rather than the first instance let me pause right

1:31:48

here what do you what

1:31:48

do you mean by beauty what do you mean by magic

1:31:51

these are subjective concepts that maybe that are only with human beings dogs

1:31:59

don't see beauty or if

1:32:00

they do they don't express it like dogs don't see flowers and and become perplexed

1:32:05

they don't stare at a

1:32:06

mountain and sit down and and take a deep breath and sigh i don't first of all

1:32:12

agree with that dogs stare at

1:32:15

the sky and sigh uh dogs look at flowers and go this is amazing certainly dogs

1:32:23

uh are very focused on

1:32:25

smell the olfactory sense of what is fascinating to a dog is not highly

1:32:28

subjective right but we're

1:32:30

talking about beauty yes i'm talking about beauty i'm talking about beautiful

1:32:33

smells is that what you're

1:32:34

talking about absolutely okay we i don't think we can imagine what a dog smells

1:32:39

right because their their

1:32:40

sense of smell is so far absolutely yeah they can smell cancer dogs yeah well

1:32:47

okay but if if if for

1:32:48

example right but we're cutting hairs here what i'm saying is the human being's

1:32:52

subjective experience

1:32:53

you're gonna beauty is very unique to us you're gonna say that but if i go into

1:32:57

any culture and i go

1:33:02

every culture has that interval wise men say oh okay okay that is universal

1:33:12

okay that's not beauty

1:33:13

though right no it's art when you let your vocal we're talking about a

1:33:16

different thing when you let

1:33:17

your vocal chord vibrate implied in that thing you may say i'm i'm singing the

1:33:23

note c but you're not

1:33:24

there's an entire chord okay called the overtone series and that sounds good to

1:33:29

every culture because

1:33:30

it comes it's not about you or me it's about our throat it's about the one-dimensional

1:33:35

nature of

1:33:35

a vibrating column always produces that same music music resonates specifically

1:33:40

with human beings but

1:33:42

can we agree that music is people are always going to want to say it's totally

1:33:46

subjective it is it's not

1:33:48

totally subjective how so if i well it's at least partially subjective it's

1:33:53

partially subjective some

1:33:54

people don't like jazz at all some people live for it so it's subjective right

1:33:58

some people hate rap music

1:34:00

some people love it some people hate metal some people love it some people hate

1:34:05

country some people

1:34:06

love it it's it's as subjective as taste in food no how so well first of all

1:34:14

your bitter response is in

1:34:16

general protective of you so that some people enjoy bitter foods i was going to

1:34:20

say that you have to

1:34:21

usually learn which foods are safe and then you have an acquired taste that's

1:34:27

what very often bitter

1:34:28

foods require taste culture has already figured out which foods are safe but

1:34:31

you don't for the most part

1:34:32

but it's local you know that that thing like if you were going to eat cabrales

1:34:37

cheese which has maggots

1:34:38

infested yeah if you come from spain you understand that cabrales is safe so

1:34:42

you call it a delicacy

1:34:44

because it's some stupid stuff that you happen to have local information to

1:34:48

know that it's safe this

1:34:49

is brett weinstein 101 sure but even in spain there's people that find it detestable

1:34:54

but my point

1:34:54

to you is is that what we are hiding behind the universals it is true that we

1:34:59

all have subjective

1:35:01

components but it is not the case that in like you and i will have a

1:35:05

conversation about a whole lot of love

1:35:08

and we will have an idea like that is just the best song and you will know that

1:35:13

you have to say okay

1:35:14

well i understand that some people don't like it but then when you get drunk

1:35:16

you're gonna say how

1:35:17

can you not like a whole lot of love yeah but i mean you would say that but you

1:35:21

know you say that

1:35:22

but you're joking like when i say how can someone not like elton john i get it

1:35:27

i get that you don't

1:35:28

like elton john i love elton john but some people they hear saturday night they

1:35:34

don't want to hear

1:35:34

that stop stop stop right they don't want to hear it they don't like elton john

1:35:38

it's subjective

1:35:40

there is a non-subjective component to music you can you can focus on the fact

1:35:45

that what is

1:35:46

non-subjective about it well i just told you but you're not correct if people

1:35:51

don't like it and some

1:35:53

people do like it that is the essence of subjectivity do you remember what you

1:35:58

said to me about gary

1:35:59

clark jr when you introduced me to him at the store um my personal opinion

1:36:05

probably we're talking

1:36:06

one of the baddest motherfuckers alive you said this is the greatest guitarist

1:36:10

alive yeah in my

1:36:11

opinion that's my opinion in my opinion yeah but that's my opinion clear and i

1:36:15

don't necessarily

1:36:16

think that he is necessarily the greatest guitarist a lot to me when i listen

1:36:20

but he's objectively if i

1:36:22

listen to numb he's objectively amazing yes he's but it's not objectively

1:36:27

because some people don't

1:36:28

think he's good at all they don't like that kind of sound it's like people some

1:36:32

people like weird

1:36:33

sounds man some people i don't necessarily love putting on art tatum as a pianist

1:36:37

you cannot sit me down to watch art tatum and say that is not amazing okay but

1:36:43

if you don't enjoy

1:36:44

it it's subjective i may not enjoy it but it's subjective you might say that

1:36:48

that is a guy who's

1:36:50

very good at doing a thing that i don't enjoy doing here's listen man yeah you're

1:36:53

splitting hairs okay

1:36:54

you either enjoy something you don't that is the essence of subjectivity okay

1:36:58

you either think it's

1:37:00

good or you don't it doesn't mean you look just because you know that some

1:37:05

people enjoy it doesn't

1:37:06

mean it's objective that it's great like you don't enjoy it like it doesn't

1:37:11

have to be the first thing

1:37:12

is can i recognize something like the millennial whoop you know about the

1:37:16

millennial whoop no this

1:37:18

thing oh yeah five three five right there's this thing that all these millennial

1:37:23

songs have okay now i

1:37:24

don't necessarily enjoy that okay but i can recognize it so the first step is

1:37:30

is it objectively

1:37:31

recognizable can i train myself you're talking about a sound that you know

1:37:34

exists okay but that

1:37:36

doesn't mean you like it okay so if you don't like it it's subjective right

1:37:41

just like food just like

1:37:43

movies just like clothing there's a lot of things that people enjoy that other

1:37:47

people don't enjoy let me

1:37:48

ask you a question do you think statistically we just all had a high

1:37:52

probability of thinking the

1:37:54

godfather was a great film i know that some people don't like that film they

1:37:58

don't like violent

1:37:59

pictures they don't like tension they don't like mafia they don't like the

1:38:02

portrayal of italian americans

1:38:03

they don't like movies that are from that era exactly they're slower i agree

1:38:07

with that yeah okay but

1:38:08

it's a subjective it's not film joe i i have a different belief structure i

1:38:14

believe that we're

1:38:15

hiding behind subjectivity i believe that what we've figured out is is that

1:38:19

there's a subjective

1:38:20

component to everything okay and you're absolutely right about this but you're

1:38:24

over complicating people's

1:38:26

tastes people's likes and dislikes they're real right some people like pop

1:38:32

music some people like

1:38:33

beethoven that is the nature of subjectivity what i'm trying to say is that

1:38:41

what you were saying is

1:38:42

true we have different likes yes and those are that's a really far downstream

1:38:47

process of can we

1:38:48

recognize what's going on okay what's our association with it if you were

1:38:52

tortured to the most beautiful

1:38:54

music in the world you're probably not gonna love it right if you watch clockwork

1:38:58

orange you got really

1:38:59

screwed up about it well i think that's what they did to manuel noriega when

1:39:03

they're trying to get

1:39:04

them to leave panama oh yeah yeah yeah i remember the same song over and over

1:39:07

and over again exactly

1:39:10

it's probably a great song too i'm sure the first 12 000 times you hear it so

1:39:14

but that's not what i'm

1:39:16

trying to say what i'm trying to say is is that there is a huge component about

1:39:20

what we like and we don't

1:39:22

like that's objective and there's a huge component about what we like we don't

1:39:26

like that's subjective

1:39:27

and in our time we've all been taught the same move which is back off claims of

1:39:32

objectivity

1:39:33

every one of us myself included back off claims of objectivity who i've never i

1:39:39

don't agree with

1:39:40

that at all we've been told to back off claims of if i say to you charlie parker

1:39:45

is objectively one

1:39:46

of the greatest jazz musicians of all time you will have a negative reaction no

1:39:50

i won't in general no

1:39:52

no i've listened to charlie parker he's brilliant to you yeah okay and somebody

1:39:56

else doesn't like him

1:39:58

yeah but you asked me you said i will have an objection to that i won't okay

1:40:01

that's not true so

1:40:03

who are the people that now i'm really confused because before i thought you

1:40:07

were telling me

1:40:08

that these things were subjective and what i'm trying to say is you are willing

1:40:13

to accept these

1:40:14

things now you're now you said me personally okay so you personally believe

1:40:18

that charlie

1:40:19

parker is an objectively great jazz musician i believe personally charlie parker

1:40:25

is a great

1:40:25

jazz musician to you i see so you objectively believe that you subjectively

1:40:30

think the the problem is we're

1:40:32

conflating objectivity and subjectivity here we're getting into this weird area

1:40:38

it's subjective whether or

1:40:41

not i enjoy it right it's subject if i if i agree if you say is this person

1:40:48

really good at something

1:40:50

that i have no interest in like are they a really good badminton player right

1:40:54

and i watch them and

1:40:55

they win i'm like yeah that guy's really good i don't give a about badminton

1:40:59

right right if badminton

1:41:01

just vanished yeah but even less even there i heard old basketball guys asked

1:41:05

about steph curry isn't he

1:41:06

amazing like i don't know what he's doing he's doing a bunch of three-point

1:41:09

shots i played in the paint

1:41:10

that's basketball i don't know what he does this is not my game right but you

1:41:14

get that from fighting

1:41:15

you get that from high jumping you get it from uh hard you know hard bat table

1:41:19

tennis it's subjective

1:41:21

i'm not sure who's making whose point now objectively or subject it's

1:41:28

subjective whether or not you like that

1:41:30

style of basketball so we're agreement some people like brawls some people like

1:41:35

floyd mayweather because

1:41:37

he's super technical and he's he's clever defensively i totally agree with this

1:41:42

at the level of there's a

1:41:44

whole bunch of process that happens and at the end you say i like it i don't

1:41:47

like it right and there's

1:41:48

no way to tell because if if you like something i can make you hate it by

1:41:52

associating with something

1:41:53

negative but let's look at the webster deck definition of objectivity versus

1:41:58

subjectivity

1:41:59

bring that up let's pull that up the webster definition of objectivity and the

1:42:04

webster definition

1:42:05

of subjectivity and let's look at this and see if we're talking about the same

1:42:09

fucking things here

1:42:10

because we're getting i think we're getting a little bit into the weeds here

1:42:16

here we go that's the jamie hum build suspense what's that as i'm typing it in

1:42:24

there's a brown.edu

1:42:27

dissertation about this but no just whatever whatever the definition of

1:42:32

definition of objectivity

1:42:33

see what we get here we go bam okay here we go

1:42:44

based on or influenced by personal feelings tastes or opinions objective

1:42:50

of a person or their judgment not influenced by personal feelings or opinions

1:42:57

in consideration of

1:42:58

expressing and representing facts okay so objective it's not influenced by

1:43:05

personal feelings or opinions

1:43:07

in considering and considering and representing facts so you can say

1:43:11

objectively someone is a very talented

1:43:16

guitarist because you see how complicated their movements are and how they're

1:43:19

hitting the strings

1:43:21

but you could say subjectively i don't enjoy that music i agree with that right

1:43:26

now now pull up pull up

1:43:27

subjective just so we we're clear about that subjective definition based on our

1:43:34

influence by personal

1:43:35

feelings tastes or opinions yeah so personal feelings and opinions and how you

1:43:42

feel about something is

1:43:44

subjective right but if i say to you is eddie van halen objectively a talent

1:43:49

was he a talented guitarist

1:43:51

he's clearly a talented guitarist i didn't say clearly yes i think somebody

1:43:56

else says

1:43:56

in in 2021 uh-huh the next move in the conversation is actually i don't think

1:44:03

he's a talented guitarist

1:44:04

i've heard him i find um talent is really about playing with feeling and all of

1:44:10

these crazy moves and

1:44:11

the tapping and the the wines and the squeals to me that's not telling you that

1:44:16

motherfuckers never

1:44:17

listened to running with the devil now you're play right on the devil you're on

1:44:22

both sides of this yeah

1:44:23

but running with the devil is like that the movements and the way he plays

1:44:28

guitar it's he's clearly got

1:44:30

amazing ability with the guitar now subjectively you could say i think that

1:44:37

music's trash

1:44:40

somebody else is going to make the claim in 2021 i think you're on my side of

1:44:44

the issue and you're

1:44:45

still right this is very interesting i think we're crossing over on both sides

1:44:48

okay i think what you're

1:44:50

now saying is expressing the tension of our moment the tension of our moment is

1:44:55

is that as soon as

1:44:56

somebody says that something is objective somebody will say actually to me you're

1:45:02

a definition of

1:45:03

that isn't how i define it and therefore i reclaim the subjectivity of it i can

1:45:08

turn andre

1:45:09

segovia or eddie van halen or jimmy page or any of these people into not a good

1:45:13

guitarist by redefining

1:45:16

what a talented guitarist is is if i redefine the concept of talent on a guitar

1:45:22

and i say talent on a

1:45:23

guitar is somebody who can convince me of emotions that they're playing with

1:45:27

and i didn't feel anything

1:45:29

maybe the problem is the word talent exactly you say uh if someone is

1:45:33

objectively proficient about the

1:45:36

guitar is jimmy hendrix proficient he was incredibly sloppy in a weird way his

1:45:44

timing actually varies it's

1:45:45

not it's not it's not incredibly rigorous you but the end result was subjectively

1:45:51

amazing

1:45:52

i know people who say what is this noise who the are those people

1:45:57

not that he couldn't but what if he couldn't read music does that make it

1:46:02

well no no i don't i don't think joe and i would no i know i'm just saying like

1:46:05

if you're throwing

1:46:06

them into another situation and be like okay play with these guys and then he

1:46:09

might think then make them

1:46:10

worse academically he wouldn't be as proficient like in terms of like if you

1:46:13

had to write the

1:46:14

music down and teach it maybe i think if you took somebody like guth do you

1:46:17

know who guthrie govan is

1:46:18

no guthrie govan is arguably the great guitarist of our age and one of his

1:46:23

tricks is you tell him

1:46:25

a guitarist and he will play in that person's style in and of what he does on

1:46:29

his own really yeah so

1:46:32

effectively he can mimic anyone's style so he has a proficiency of technique

1:46:37

that's the whole point if

1:46:39

anyone is a good guitarist guthrie govan can represent that person's guitar in

1:46:43

a way that if

1:46:43

you were blindfolded you would say boy bb king is having a great day okay right

1:46:49

and so that would be

1:46:50

a proof that guthrie govan is like it's a turing test basically the guthrie govan

1:46:56

can emulate any

1:46:57

guitarist so if you believe anyone is objectively talented then guthrie govan

1:47:02

is objectively talented

1:47:03

that's the thing about guitar is that it is an instrument with six strings but

1:47:09

people can make

1:47:11

radically different noises with those six strings toast and a bosses is not six

1:47:15

strings narciso yep

1:47:16

is is not 16 even that okay yeah i'm just i'm just trying i'm trying to say we

1:47:20

can also do those

1:47:21

double guitars and some of those wacky but rock and roll but even if we i know

1:47:25

yeah those are always

1:47:26

sort of dorky and sort of they what are those what's that called the double

1:47:29

neck yeah well usually it's a 12

1:47:31

string and a six string so that you get these sort of resonance so it's 18

1:47:35

total so which one's 12.

1:47:37

and i don't think all of the strings are doubled on a 12 string so i think it's

1:47:42

only some or i'm not

1:47:43

exactly sure but those things are based on the idea that you're trying not to

1:47:47

switch guitars in

1:47:48

the middle of a song when you're trying to do two things or stanley jordan will

1:47:53

tap on two guitars

1:47:55

simultaneously with his fingers as if he's playing the piano right which is

1:48:00

insane well hendrix used

1:48:02

to play star spangled banner with his teeth yeah yeah nobody teaches you that i

1:48:09

uh who used to do

1:48:11

i mean maybe someone will teach you that after he did you see that movie august

1:48:14

rush no right

1:48:16

it's uh robin williams is in it it's about a little kid proficient whatever but

1:48:19

doesn't it doesn't

1:48:20

matter the style of guitar he's playing he's slapping the guitar it's tuned in

1:48:23

in a very strange way

1:48:24

it's hard to recreate but he's doing these like what he's saying he's like

1:48:28

tapping on like a piano

1:48:29

i'll show you what he's doing the kid's acting but someone was actually playing

1:48:33

it it's not guitar

1:48:34

playing like you're used to seeing it put it up never heard of it yeah i mean

1:48:38

that's a different thing

1:48:40

right you can like there's people like gary clark is a perfect example like i

1:48:44

said like uh gary clark

1:48:46

uh i'm pretty sure i played this for you uh when suzanne santo and gary clark

1:48:51

and uh ben jaffe were

1:48:53

we they did this show in downtown la and they played midnight rider yeah and gary

1:48:58

clark attached his

1:49:00

sound to that classic almond brother song midnight rider and it was amazing

1:49:06

because you could clear if

1:49:07

you if you just tuned into it you go oh that's gary clark like there's a there's

1:49:12

a style of sound

1:49:15

that gary creates that's uniquely him steve ray vaughn is another example there's

1:49:20

a style of sound

1:49:21

that steve ray vaughn created that was uniquely him this little clip this kid's

1:49:26

finding out how to play

1:49:27

a guitar this is a little too much it's like movie magic but this is what i'm

1:49:31

talking about he's not

1:49:32

strumming it like you're used to seeing or hearing he's almost playing the bongos

1:49:37

using the reverb of the room adding into what he's doing

1:49:41

oh that's pretty badass this is called august rush yeah this movie it's an

1:49:48

interesting movie

1:49:49

watch it if you want to it's been out for a while

1:49:57

just a very strange thing you're doing robin williams is one of those guys when

1:50:01

i see him i get sad

1:50:03

yeah it's a very good movie he's acting in that people if you didn't know it

1:50:07

was in it i met him

1:50:08

once it's the weirdest story i've told unfortunately i've told it already so

1:50:12

forgive me if you've heard

1:50:13

this but i was at the improv i did a show at the improv then afterwards there

1:50:17

was a line of people

1:50:18

taking pictures of people saying hi after the show and this uh dude with

1:50:22

glasses and this thick white

1:50:24

beard a baseball hat was in line and he was telling me how great the show was

1:50:28

he really enjoyed it he's

1:50:30

talking to me about specific bits and we're talking i'm like oh thank you

1:50:33

thanks man i really appreciate

1:50:34

it glad you enjoyed it and then in the middle of talking to this guy i go holy

1:50:39

this is robin williams

1:50:40

fuck you he was just in line i didn't even know it was him he had this crazy

1:50:44

white beard i didn't

1:50:45

know it was him i had no idea it was him until in the middle of talking i

1:50:49

realized it was him he

1:50:51

waited in line by himself there was all these people no one noticed it was him

1:50:56

what a compliment to you

1:50:57

sir it was wild it was really it was really weird it was right before i did

1:51:01

triggered it was like i was

1:51:03

tightening up my act it was like getting i was getting everything together i

1:51:07

think it was around then

1:51:08

i'm pretty sure it was in that but it was i was in the middle of about to do a

1:51:12

special so everything

1:51:13

was very tight and i remember seeing him going in the middle of the

1:51:18

conversation going holy this is

1:51:21

robin williams i saw him when i was in like high school in an l.a comedy club

1:51:26

at the improv and

1:51:33

there were two guys in l.a i can't remember the other guy who the thing about

1:51:38

them was is that you

1:51:39

were just convinced that their brains were 12 000 times faster than anybody

1:51:45

else you'd ever met like

1:51:47

that they were just in a weird way smarter and robin williams free association

1:51:52

it was like being on a

1:51:54

nantucket's sleigh ride of the mind and comedy was how it expressed itself but

1:52:00

it wasn't about comedy

1:52:02

it was about just like having thoughts interact with each other and you had to

1:52:09

justify them by turning

1:52:10

every thought into a joke that's influencing every other thought it was like

1:52:14

almost like excusing madness

1:52:16

that was purposeful and pointful and amazing to watch and unfortunately he repurposed

1:52:22

some other

1:52:22

people's material oh is that right yeah he was known for that and i think that

1:52:26

was part of the manic

1:52:28

nature of this style was that like sometimes he would come across a subject

1:52:32

that he was just you know

1:52:34

because he was free balling and he would just use material that he knew of well

1:52:38

my guess is that the

1:52:39

speeds he was at he probably couldn't slow down to ask where did that thought

1:52:43

come from is that maybe

1:52:45

okay or maybe the ends justified the means and then what he really was doing

1:52:48

was just trying to

1:52:49

put on the best performance that he could and he had this idea that he knew

1:52:53

wasn't necessarily his

1:52:55

he cut checks to a lot of people and there was a there was a lot of issues i

1:52:59

know kinnison and him

1:53:00

had a big squabble because of it and i'm pretty sure he cut a check for kinnison

1:53:03

and he cut checks for

1:53:04

other guys that were at the store like when he wound up because he had to not

1:53:07

because do the material on tv

1:53:09

so let me ask you a question about this i guess i was reviewing that night in

1:53:13

your life and i was

1:53:15

looking at the fact that it wasn't that funny when you went up and you said

1:53:19

what had to be said

1:53:20

and i think about comics that done at the comedy store when i left yeah yeah

1:53:26

and it was painful

1:53:27

for me to watch in a way because it was both courageous but that's you know

1:53:32

that that was a weird

1:53:33

situation where i was called back on stage by carlos mencia there wasn't there

1:53:38

wasn't like

1:53:39

i know i made a statement i had already done my set i already didn't stand up

1:53:45

and then i went back

1:53:47

because he called me out that you know like the me leaving the comedy store was

1:53:53

not even my idea

1:53:54

it was like they banned me so it's like less in the story just didn't use no i

1:53:59

don't think so joe

1:54:01

i think at some level you threw your hat into the ring and you almost certainly

1:54:06

knew like they said

1:54:09

why don't you take a break or take some time off or some yeah soft and then i

1:54:12

said there's no

1:54:13

fucking way i'm gonna do that i'll never come back yeah that i think what you

1:54:16

did is you obligated

1:54:18

yourself into a role where you actually had to stand up for something and the

1:54:22

thing that the thing i'm

1:54:23

wrestling with because i reviewed this whole story a few times is this question

1:54:27

about like i look at your

1:54:31

person in my life and i look at that energy and you were trying to take care of

1:54:35

somebody like ari

1:54:36

you know it wasn't just ari well i know it was creativity in general it was

1:54:42

general it was the

1:54:43

the concept that there was a guy who was more successful than everybody else

1:54:47

who would just suck

1:54:48

up everybody else's material and profit off of it it was also that nobody else

1:54:51

was saying it was also

1:54:52

that they were they knew it was everybody was talking about it and there was a

1:54:55

silence bill burr told

1:54:56

me a story where he was uh he was performing there and he said to the guy that

1:55:02

was a manager the guy that

1:55:03

i had the issue with he said i don't want to go on stage you know carlos is

1:55:07

here he goes oh don't

1:55:09

worry he doesn't steal from guys like you he only steals from the younger guys

1:55:13

he goes what the

1:55:13

did you just say so you know he steals from the younger guys he goes that's not

1:55:17

what i said he

1:55:17

goes that's what you just said it's exactly just said and it doesn't feel that

1:55:22

way that's the thing

1:55:23

that that you know what man it was a time before accountability with the

1:55:27

internet the internet came

1:55:29

along and you know by the time that like when that instance happened people

1:55:35

recognize oh there's like

1:55:36

legitimate accountability for doing things along those lines this is from 1964.

1:55:43

what is it it's a

1:55:45

foia risk request made for the freedom of information freedom of information

1:55:49

act for the file of barack

1:55:52

hussein obama senior as a graduate student in the economics department at harvard

1:55:58

university okay

1:56:01

obama has passed his general exams which indicates that on academic grounds he

1:56:06

is entitled to stay

1:56:07

around here and write his thesis however they are going to try to cook

1:56:13

something up to ease him out

1:56:15

all three that is all three harvard people will have to agree on this however

1:56:22

they are planning on

1:56:23

telling him that they will not give him any money and that he had better return

1:56:27

to kenya and prepare his

1:56:28

thesis at home which means he will never get his phd remember when they said

1:56:32

take a break to you this is

1:56:35

my alma mater this is the thing i've been you know there's this whole story

1:56:42

about what happened in my

1:56:44

early life and why i don't talk about it publicly and this is why this is

1:56:47

interacting with your story

1:56:49

about joke thievery because it's weird for a comic not to turn that into a joke

1:56:53

and it wasn't funny to you

1:56:57

in around i don't know 1988 1989 harvard university told me to remain in good

1:57:04

standing in this program

1:57:05

you cannot live in massachusetts why and i said what how can you tell me where

1:57:13

i can live and where i

1:57:15

can't live it wasn't until somebody foiled barack obama's father in his file

1:57:22

and i read this story that i

1:57:25

realized that harvard has a program for how it gets rid of people it wants to

1:57:30

get rid of who are in good

1:57:31

standing it makes a move it makes them move so that they can't complete their

1:57:38

thesis why they want to

1:57:39

do that with you um probably because i'm as learning disabled as the day is

1:57:44

long probably because i took

1:57:46

a an unpopular stance that the equations that people were working with called

1:57:51

the donaldson theory

1:57:52

self-dual equations were not the right equations to be working with and that we

1:57:56

had somehow been

1:57:58

assuming that they were highly peculiar to dimension four and the the

1:58:01

difficulty of the equations which

1:58:03

was what was giving us all these great results i had effectively gotten on the

1:58:07

wrong side i proposed

1:58:08

some equations that were i was told were insufficiently non-linear never mind

1:58:12

what that means

1:58:13

that in 1994 effectively the same equations took over the entire field

1:58:18

whatever it was and this is like part of the idea of reclaiming your own story

1:58:27

it was so crazy that a university would tell me what state i could live in can

1:58:33

i stop you so the people

1:58:35

that are telling you this yeah they're operating on a pre-existing solution to

1:58:41

deal with people that they

1:58:43

find undesirable or problematic if you fall afoul of them right so it's written

1:58:49

somewhere i don't know

1:58:51

or it's you know it's like people maintain for example one way of um getting

1:58:57

rid of a tenured professor

1:58:59

that's known is is that you ask the person to report on their research and you

1:59:04

load them up with

1:59:05

teaching and you give them a lousy office and then eventually they'll just quit

1:59:09

because you make their life

1:59:10

hell so people know that there are these kind of secret quiet ways to do the

1:59:14

undoable can i ask you

1:59:16

this what did you think about cornell west being denied tenure from harvard

1:59:20

first of all i thought

1:59:21

i assumed yeah he already had it i mean cornell west is this loved intellectual

1:59:29

when when i found out

1:59:31

they denied him tenure i was like what the what how do you how do you deny cornell

1:59:39

west tenure

1:59:40

like what is that what did you think about that i first of all am not

1:59:44

knowledgeable in that area i

1:59:47

think of him as a very bright superstar of some sort of part academic part

1:59:53

social crossover high impact

1:59:56

human yeah i was there when larry summers was president of um harvard when he

2:00:03

went out and said

2:00:05

effectively too many people are using the harvard label and we're going to be

2:00:09

reining it in and going

2:00:11

back to hard rigor and basics let me tell you what people don't understand

2:00:16

about harvard harvard is two

2:00:17

separate structures fused together one is about power and one is about

2:00:22

achievement and the two of them are

2:00:25

interlinked in a way that cannot be separated it without the achievement harvard

2:00:31

wouldn't have this kind

2:00:32

of glowing reputation that causes us to sort of ooh and ah over historically

2:00:37

without the power it wouldn't

2:00:40

be able to attract the money and it wouldn't be able to constantly position

2:00:45

itself so through achievement

2:00:47

it gets enough cachet to wield power through the power it gets the resources to

2:00:52

buy achievement

2:00:54

and this sort of thing is not understood and i've been on both sides of this

2:00:59

thing like one of the things

2:01:01

that happened um was that the boskin commission in 1996 tried to figure out how

2:01:09

to cut social security

2:01:10

and raise taxes without getting caught because that's the third rail of

2:01:15

politics and what they

2:01:16

said is if we change the cpi the consumer price index the way we measure

2:01:20

inflation because tax brackets

2:01:22

are indexed and because entitlement payments for social security and medicare

2:01:26

are indexed if we claim that

2:01:28

social security sorry if we claim that inflation is overstated by 1.1

2:01:33

percentage points we will gain

2:01:35

a trillion dollars in savings and the public won't be able to object to it

2:01:40

because we're going to be just

2:01:42

adjusting a dial we're going to say that this dial was broken and we got some

2:01:46

technocrats to fix it so

2:01:48

they figured out we want to get a trillion dollars over 10 years they backed

2:01:51

out that would require 1.1 percent overstatement

2:01:54

they broke into two teams one team came up with 0.5 one team came up with 0.6 0.5

2:02:01

plus 0.6 equals 1.1

2:02:02

totally fictitious they got a trip they got a proposal for a trillion dollars

2:02:08

that they were going to

2:02:09

steal effectively from social security and they described this action publicly

2:02:16

robert gordon who

2:02:18

was one of the five boskin commissioners um jamie could you bring up something

2:02:23

called boskin wild versus

2:02:25

mild they brag about these things power wants to explain just how powerful it

2:02:33

is

2:02:33

and you remember the scene in the big short where they're talking to these guys

2:02:38

in florida and saying

2:02:39

why are they confessing and somebody says they're not confessing they're bragging

2:02:43

it's a question of what are you proud that you're able to do

2:02:46

right so until robert gordon

2:02:51

did this powerpoint presentation

2:02:53

we did not have understand what happened to the work that i did with my wife in

2:02:58

economics

2:02:59

which is that we were trying to show how you could actually compute the

2:03:03

consumer price index

2:03:04

objectively using gauge theory the same year they were trying to figure out how

2:03:11

do we steal a

2:03:11

trillion dollars over 10 years by doing funny games with the gauge called

2:03:16

inflation

2:03:17

do you do you find the wild versus the mild yeah i did it's just loading a pdf

2:03:22

and it's like taking

2:03:23

it's like i failed so this thing perfect if you go to um uh go about five or

2:03:33

six slides in

2:03:35

we'll see how that works okay

2:03:38

one two two keep going

2:03:43

you'll find the word somehow keep going okay dale said 1.1 implies 1 trillion

2:03:52

in silver

2:03:53

social security savings over 10 years somehow our separate efforts came up with

2:03:58

the 1.1 bias number

2:04:00

in other words they came up with the target which is let's save trillion

2:04:07

dollars and then they came

2:04:09

up with we have to say it's overstated by 1.1 we then broke into two groups and

2:04:13

somehow keyword we put

2:04:16

the numbers together and we got the target this is academic malpractice

2:04:21

practice in the absolute

2:04:23

extreme when harvard was doing that it was acting in its power capacity and the

2:04:28

way they did it was they

2:04:29

buried what i think is probably the best work in 25 to 50 years in mathematical

2:04:34

economics that happened

2:04:36

in the harvard economics department which is a second so-called marginal

2:04:40

revolution where we changed the

2:04:42

calculus underneath all of economic theory so how does something like this

2:04:46

happen is there a concerted

2:04:49

effort did they get together and they they have this idea this is how we're

2:04:52

going to five person commission

2:04:54

behind closed doors that meets at the cousin's house of somebody on the

2:04:58

commission in florida

2:05:00

and in another presentation in florida florida man

2:05:04

in another presentation they say we solve this at the kitchen table of my

2:05:10

cousin's house in florida

2:05:12

and you're just thinking like okay so it's five guys bob packwood and daniel

2:05:17

patrick moynihan a

2:05:19

democrat and republican got together picked five economists who were willing to

2:05:23

play the dirty game

2:05:24

the dirty game broke into two teams they knew exactly what they had to do they

2:05:29

found the results to put

2:05:30

them together to put in front of congress to put in front of the national

2:05:33

academy and were they ever

2:05:34

held accountable for this no there's an entire book called the physics of wall

2:05:39

street in which my wife and

2:05:41

i are chapter 10 and the epilogue which it talks about they made weinstein and

2:05:45

milani go away

2:05:46

right so what i'm trying to talk to you about is like this this experience for

2:05:54

me i've never talked

2:05:55

about this with anyone i've never i mean i've talked about tons of people

2:05:59

privately this is going to go

2:06:00

out into the world i was you know you know this question like what has eric weinstein

2:06:05

ever done

2:06:06

i did that i did the marginal revolution using gauge theory no no no that

2:06:12

question is tim dylan joking

2:06:13

around yeah i know he said what he never created the rotato he was that was

2:06:18

very joking he was

2:06:19

around that was the funny part about it he was joking but he's saying that

2:06:23

because he knows you're

2:06:24

brilliant you understand the only reason why he can say that if you were a

2:06:27

loser joe joe you couldn't

2:06:28

say that you don't need to make me feel good about myself i know but you

2:06:31

brought it up again no i'm

2:06:33

saying something completely different okay okay i actually have been scared of

2:06:37

this question what

2:06:39

question that tim's question taken seriously who's going to take it seriously i'm

2:06:44

taking it seriously

2:06:46

okay no no you're in a weird world okay here's here's your weird world you're

2:06:51

in a world of serious

2:06:52

intellectual people you're damn straight you're also hanging out with tim dylan

2:06:55

and me and i love it

2:06:57

but it's it's the problem is like you're you're conflating these two things no

2:07:02

it joe i'm not that

2:07:03

angry at tim dylan it's not i'm not that angry do you hear that you heard the

2:07:07

word you heard the word

2:07:08

that that's a problem you're not that angry at carlos mencia i'm not angry at

2:07:12

him at all i know and

2:07:13

i'm not i feel i'm sad i'm sad for him anyway should be sad for tim wait wait

2:07:18

wait he's one

2:07:19

of the most important comedians of our time okay how dare you how dare i i it

2:07:24

took it gave me a moment

2:07:25

to to reflect and i realized something which is i don't want to talk about this

2:07:29

shit publicly i don't

2:07:32

want to say dale jorgensen is the guy who buried one of the most important

2:07:37

innovations in economic

2:07:39

but yeah you just did i just did and that's what i've just done that's what i

2:07:43

realized by reviewing

2:07:45

your history and revealing you're seven years away from the store i don't want

2:07:49

to be associated with