3 years ago
You should tell Joe about how the government program OSAP was created directly because George wrote this book about a little place called Skinwalker Ranch where the government was studying this property. That happened because of his book, some DIA guys. You should tell the story of the- I visited that place. Yeah, but you, yeah, right. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I think you got a little misled on it. Tell them how the government's that he started, you know, from your work. It's fascinating. So some of it stems back to Lazar. So we did that story in the series in 89. One of the first people to call me after that was a guy I'd never heard of before named Robert Bigelow, a billionaire. He calls me up and says, I was really interested in that. I've been interested in UFOs for a long time. Can I help you? Meaning can he help fund me? I said, I work for a TV station. I don't need any help. But he was not to be deterred. He then reached out to Lazar. They had a little- he started meeting with him and pumping up for information. And that really amplified Bigelow's lifelong interest in it. He created something called NIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Science, which he made a science advisory board of the best and the brightest in both the UFO field and the field of consciousness. So they're looking at two questions. Is there life elsewhere in the universe? Is it here? And do humans survive after death? And he assembled this board, former CIA guys, two former astronauts, men who had walked on the moon, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, Dr. Hal Puthoff, physicists, psychologists, really a brilliant little think tank to take on these two topics. I was allowed to be a fly on the wall for some of it, not all of it, but some. And I had told Harry Reid about it in 1996. And he said, can I go? And so he showed up and sat in on the meetings, and he was kind of hooked. Harry Reid was the first person I told about Bob Lazar outside of our newsroom. Before we aired the stories, I'd known him since he first ran for Congress in 1982. Then he becomes Senate Majority Leader. So he had always had an interest in it, but he didn't want it to be known publicly. That does not help your reelection chances. So in 2005, we write the book about Skinwalker Ranch. NIDS, that team, bought the ranch. They were on the property for seven or eight years at that point and had hundreds of different incidents that they investigated. They approached it like scientists would. They looked for prosaic explanations. They looked for gravity anomalies. They looked for psychoactive plants. Could there be hallucinations caused by magic mushrooms or something? Are the witnesses lying? They investigated the background of the family that lived there. And they found out that it could not be explained, all the range of activity there. So it was not only UFO. What kind of activity were you talking about? Well, it starts with UFOs because that's what got their attention. The Uinta Basin in northeastern Utah has always been a UFO hotspot. Everybody who lives there basically has seen them. Balls of light, orbs, structured craft, daylight, nighttime. In 1976, a guy named Dr. Frank Salisbury wrote a book about it, the Utah UFO display. And he took hundreds of these cases that have been collected by the locals. There was a local science teacher named Junior Hicks who, because he had taught generations of kids science in that area, when people would see UFOs, they'd call up Junior Hicks. And he went and go and investigate them. And he had had hundreds and hundreds of files. He gave them over to this guy Salisbury who wrote a book about it. And he said, these are real. They're going on. But Junior Hicks would disregard any high strangeness cases that came along with the UFOs. Something weird, big foot, ghosts, anything like that. He thought it was too incredible. And he discarded that. Bigelow buys the ranch. He hears about these stories going on on this one property, flies in, meets with the rancher. And by this time, that rancher and his family had lived on the ranch for 20 months. And they were so scared that he, his wife, and his two kids were all sleeping at night on the floor in the same room because it had messed with them so badly. Their property had had ghost type activity, poltergeist kind of things, trickster activity. For example, the wife goes shopping to the grocery store. She buys it. All this food comes back, puts it on the table, takes it out, puts it in the shelves, leaves the room, comes back in. All the food's back in the bag. She would take a shower in the morning, locks the door, puts a towel and a hairbrush on the cabinet, gets out of the shower, door's still locked, hairbrush and towel are gone. Dad's out in the field. He is digging a post hole, using a post hole digger, happy piece of equipment. He stops for a second, wipes his brow, looks back and it's gone. And they find it two weeks later up in a tree. They start hearing voices at night in the air, speaking a strange language. They start seeing shapes outside the window at night, big, lurking humanoid shapes, hearing heavy footsteps outside, then hearing heavy footsteps inside. Then their animals started being mutilated. Cows, the tracks would lead out into the snow and then just be gone. Cabs mutilated, cut up with surgical precision. Cats wiped out, carved up. Dogs that were vaporized. Hundreds of these incidents. They would see holes in the sky, like a great big hole in the sky and things flying in and out of it. Now this rancher, college educated guy, grounded, strict religious guy, thinks the government is trying to run off his property. So he's out there at night lurking with a gun trying to catch whatever government agents are doing this stuff. And it's not government agents. It was something else. They start seeing UFOs of all shapes and sizes. The first one they saw was like a, they thought it was a Winnebago. This ranch is a beautiful place and it only has one way in and one way out. They see these two lights that look like headlights down in the third homestead. How did this guy get past the house here and get down there? He must be stuck. Let's go down and help him out. The lights start coming toward he and his son. Then they go up into the sky, up over the trees and then poof, gone. These different kinds of orbs. The white ones that were intelligently controlled, not fireflies, not bugs. Blue ones that would go, they seem to touch the fear center in your brain. They'd get near them. They looked like a little bigger than a softball made out of glass with a swirling blue liquid, scared the hell out of the animals and then it scared the hell out of the people too. This literally drove them to their knees with fear. These red orbs that would stampede the cattle. They lost so many cattle that they began to think that they were going to go under. They had these four prized bulls. I know I'm jumping around but there's a lot of stories. They had these four prized bulls, 2,000 pounds each, behemoths, very expensive animals because they were raising cement tall cattle. Had them in the corral and the husband and wife, they always felt like they're being watched. He says to the wife as they're driving to town, man, if something happens to one of those bulls, we'll go under, we'll be done. They come back a half an hour later, all four of the bulls are gone. They jump out, they're freaking out. Where did they go? Did somebody steal them? Are they rustlers? Looking around all over the place in this corral is a metal trailer where they used to store tools. There's only one door into it and it's locked with this heavy piece of wire. The door is still locked. The wire is still on there. The guy just as a last resort, he looks into the grating on top of this trailer and there's the four bulls inside. Door is still locked. They're all crammed in there. Now you could take a forklift. You could have a team of 50 people and they couldn't get those bulls in that trailer but there they were. He yells to his wife, hey honey, they're in here. When he says that, the bulls wake up as if out of a trance, kick the door down and all got out. The NIDS team, which had been on the property for a couple of years at that point, fly in. They had been in Las Vegas. They fly back in. They look around. They check out the animals. The whole corral, which is made out of metal, had been magnetized. So whatever technology was used to get those bulls from the corral into that trailer left a magnetic signature. They were there on the property, the NIDS guys for several years. Bigelow owned it for 20 years but eventually they gave up. Whatever this thing was, this intelligence, it did not like being stalked and it played tricks on them. They never made the stuff public because what are you going to do? Write a paper about this? Who's going to print it? You can't make a documentary about it because they weren't there with cameras. Is there any evidence? Well, all this we're saying, those catum mutilations, I guess that's some evidence but that's the only evidence of cows and we can mutilate cows. What about all this other stuff? Like for the first 20 months when the rancher is there, they don't have any evidence because he's not a paranormal investigator. They're not taking photos or something. They want it to go away. So they don't have any evidence of that except for what the rancher told them. But then they talked to the larger community and the same thing has been happening to all the neighbors. The guy who lives next door had lost all these cattle as well, seized the craft. Sometimes these craft would float around. They looked like stealth fighters with Christmas lights around them floating around silently. Again, is there any evidence? Not really. I mean, so Bigelow puts up cameras all over the property and you have them focused here where some activity had happened before. The thing moves over here. You move the cameras and focus there, it goes away. Toward the end of the study, whatever it was that was there, one of these cameras would have ripped the shreds. They're up on top of a telephone pole, 30, 40 feet in the air. And there's wires that are secured all the way down the telephone pole and they notice that one of their cameras goes out. They figure, well, there's another camera on another pole that should have a view of whatever it was that tore this up, some kind of animal or whatever. Well, whatever it was, was invisible. And I know it's very frustrating. It certainly was for them and for me to try to write about it in that this thing didn't want to be caught. It wanted to demonstrate that it was there, but it didn't want to have evidence. The calf that was mutilated was in, I know it's a lot to handle. The calf that was mutilated, it was a Sunday morning. It's 10 o'clock on a quiet morning. It's daylight. The rancher and his wife are there by themselves. They're tagging newborn calves, tag their ears. And they tagged this one right by the ranch house, 50 yards from their home, and they go off across the property. It's a clear day. It's unobstructed. Their dog is with them and makes a noise that points him back toward that first calf that they had tagged. And the dog indicates that something's wrong. And they see the mom cow is dragging its leg and going around in a semi-circle. It's in distress. They go running back over there. And this calf had been completely stripped of flesh. Nothing left but a hide and bone. And one of the femur bones had been ripped out and thrown on the side. Well, they call in the nids, guys. They bring in trackers. There are no tracks. No human tracks. No vehicle tracks. No animal tracks. The thing had been completely stripped of blood. There's not a drop of blood on the ground. It's gone. 75 pounds of meat gone. Again, it is... Over a time period of... 30 minutes. Is there a team of commandos that comes in and does that? Special forces? Where does the blood go? Yeah. And there's evidence of this? Yeah. Photographs. Yeah. Can we see that? Yeah. Where is it? I don't know. I call home for the skinwalker. It's in there, right? Is that the only place? Yeah. It's probably some other places. There's photos and video. I mean, so that... I'm with you, man. Yeah. What's the speculation about, like, why would they do this and why would they do the cattle mutilations? Like, what is... Yeah. Is there any speculation? Some. So, some of it is a demonstration. I mean, it seemed to be a demonstration to get their attention. This trickster element has been reported in other places around the world. There's no hotspot quite like skinwalker. And I know how weird it sounds. There's no spot like that because it's never... There's no spot that's been studied to that extent. The NIDS guys were there for, well, Bigelow owned the property for 20 years. NIDS was active for seven or eight. Then another secret study funded by the government came in under an organization called BAS. That was the money that Reed got. He got $22 million. It went to Bigelow as a contract. And they hired all these people and fanned out all over the world to try to find UFO information, but other related phenomena, things that wouldn't seem normally to be connected to UFOs, but which are. A guy from the DIA had read the book and became interested. And he asked for permission to go to the property. This guy's a double PhD, a brilliant rocket scientist who had seen it and thought there were national security implications. The hole in the sky in particular with things coming in and out. He wondered if someone was using technology to make these things happen. Did they film that hole in the sky? No. Again, that's when the rancher is there by himself. So he's not a UFO guy. He's not trying to... I understand. But is there any evidence of anything weird, anything other than mutilated cows? Well, let's see. The video of the camera that was torn up by something invisible, they had something that creeped. In the video, you can see the camera being torn apart. You can't see anything. There's nothing. You can't see anything. You can see before it happens, it's normal and afterward. How much time is taking place between before and after? I can't remember. But I mean, could that be hoaxed? Yeah, if Bigelow wanted to. But again, they weren't there to, in the beginning at least, for NIDS, they weren't there to try to prove that aliens are visiting. They're just trying to figure out why all this weird stuff is happening in one spot. It mixes in a lot of Native American lore that got mixed in the picture, but it's been going on in that you went to basin for 200 years. Why? Don't know. I mean, our government has studied the meta... So what is evidence? It's so frustrating to me too. When I was introduced to the skinwalker thing through George, man, I'm with you. What's the evidence? What's going on? The rate of evidence is when you talk to people in the area and they all have these commonalities. Some people died of exotic cancers from burns from above where lights came down and hit them. And that's evidence. Their face is completely irradiated and they fucking died. So there's the cow. That's the cow. So you have a scientist like Dr. Colin Kelleher. Hold on for a second. That's where they found it? Look at that. Just what in the fuck? That is so crazy. Did they scan the area to look for another spot where it could have been slaughtered before it was moved to this area? Well, that's what they concluded is it had to have been taken somewhere and slaughtered and then brought back. But who does that? Jamie, can you make that a little larger, please? Can you just zoom in on that? Because that doesn't look very surgical to me. That looks like wolves. Yeah, it was... There's no... Just... They actually did an analysis and it was done with two types of metallic tools. But look at all the jagged edges. So they took samples and they sent them to two pathology labs. Didn't tell the guys what they're looking for. You tell us what you can see. And the pathologist said that two instruments had been used. One was a heavy machete-type instrument that had been hacked. And then there is a scalpel that had surgically removed a lot of the flesh underneath. It looks like something killed it and then they moved it to that spot. I mean, if I had to guess, the way it's eaten though, I mean, it looks like it was eaten. Well, there's no teeth marks. There are metallic marks. There's no teeth mark. Meaning they found... Like a slice. Sliced. Okay. So something sharp sliced it. So I think the bigger point is this was happening on this ranch with owners prior to owners prior to owners. I got to talk to a lot of people that... So here's the deal. The connection of this... So George does this thing, he reports on this for 20 years that the government is now studying this ranch, right? As of deployment or because of all this weird stuff. Why is the government spending money through OSAP to study this ranch and other things? And that's where it gets really fucking interesting. What happens after with our government programs? And that's what you know. This is before we get to that, this image, like the jagged edges around the rib cage, that's supposedly sliced? That looks like... Hacked. Hacked. Okay. I mean, look, let's say it's people doing this, two farmers to get them out of there. Let's say it's some program. I mean, although the cattle mutilation thing, you gave me a stack of documents this big, has been studied by the FBI. It's happened all over the country. No one has ever been caught, not a single person. More than 10,000 cases. With all the same types of cuts. I mean, this is not my expertise. I've seen a lot of that. It's really weird. There is another theory. It's really weird. And the lack of blood is the weirdest part of it. See, what makes sense to me is that something killed that, they butchered it, they chopped all the meat off of it, and then they removed the carcass from that area and dropped it off there. Yes. That's what it looks like, if I had to guess. That's what NIDS thinks. There's no way that it was killed right there because you're seeing fresh, clean hay underneath it everywhere. There's no blood, which doesn't make any sense at all. I think the question is, is this a government program? Or is this something, or is this a scare tactic? It's been happening since the 50s. It's a weird scare tactic. Click on that one below it, Jamie. The brown one with the green. Yeah, that one, please. Thank you. That's a weird one too. There's a whole cut out. There's a bunch of these they found all over the country and weirdness, like organs removed. But the weirdest part about it is, it's almost always there's no blood. Yeah. I just investigated one, which I never thought I would do, but I got a call from a guy in Texas. He said, physically? Yeah. So right before lockdown, I go out and I'm like, this is so wild. I got to check this out. The guy calls me. It's a pretty freshy one at this point. Now I'm no expert, but I went and got samples and took them to labs and this sort of thing to see if there were tools used. So you got, here's my experience. Did you get pictures of this? Yeah. I filmed the whole thing. You have it on your phone? I'll show you after I got it on my phone. Yeah. So I got great photos. Great fucking photos. Weird shit. Well, listen, man. Air drop them to me now. We'll send them to Jamie and we'll put it up on the screen so other people can see. Okay. So let me. Yeah. After the show is not going to help us. Okay. While you're looking, I'll tell them about one of the theories about the cattle mutilations that Dr. Kelleher, Dr. Colin Kelleher developed was that somebody is tracking the spread of like mad cow prions through the food supply and that they've been doing it under the guise of UFOs since no one would take UFOs and cattle mutilation seriously. They just do it in helicopters and they're instead of just stealing these cattle, they're tracking how far these indestructible prions travel through the food supply because it's in cattle, it's in pigs, it gets fed into chickens and things of that and feed, it's in deer. It's called chronic wasting disease in some circles. It's just weird. Well, chronic wasting disease, isn't that a different prion disease than mad cow? Well, it's a variation. Crutsfeld Jacob disease, I think too. The same kinds of things in different species. It is indestructible again. You hit a deer that's got this and you grind it up and you feed it to pigs, the pigs get it. Then it could be passed on to other species and it shows up in different ways. Kelleher was exploring the idea, well, whether or not it might be the cause of Alzheimer's or a version of mad cow and humans. They're all going to you right now. So this is a recent, oh, it says downloading. So I'm downloading them and then they're right, right, right. Are you on the wifi? No, but it's coming through. Here you go. It's about to go to you. It says waiting. Okay, got it. Boom. I mean, I guess this does highlight because this is my very limited amount of. Can you send those to Jamie too? Jamie, can you put your airdrop on? Airdrop, Jamie? Sorry. Should have had to do that right away. It's ready to roll. His airdrop is open. I don't see you, bro. Bro. There, there we go. Young Jamie. So this is, um, this is the stuff that you physically encountered. Okay. You physically saw this cow and I'm looking at these images right now and we're going to show them in a second. And this is, uh, you said Texas. Yeah. So we're in Texas. Oh gosh, what was the name of it? In the panhandle. I don't know. I'm yeah, I'm blanking. So here's the deal. Oh yeah, that's it. So I made the movie based on George's work of the same title, Hunt for the Skinwalker, right? And that movie was telling this story about how the United States government was studying this property of land because of UFOs and weird stuff that and weird stuff included things like cattle. Pull up this one. There's a lot of weird images, man. This uh, the, the skin removed around the face. Right. So this is my, this is my first chance to see this. I'm gonna do this for myself. Cause last time I was on your show, it was the ones in Oregon had just happened up at that ranch. And I thought, well, okay, if I'm ever going to do it, now's the time to do it. So I go, I get this call now, remind you, this is a rancher. This is like, this is their livelihood. It's this huge, huge area of land that right there. Stop right there. They're a very religious community. Nobody. You go out to the middle of this land and in the middle there's this dead cow. No blood. No blood. And he had seen it prior. And the reason he called me is cause in my movie you could see this special kind of slice, like a jagged slice that is common to these types of things they think are real meat relations. And he was looking at it. He's like, that's exactly like in the movie. Now this is a straight shooter. He's a religious guy. He had to ask his pastor if he could even like go on camera with me. It freaks him out. So he sees this. Now he sees dead animals all the time. And he saw this cow you said before? Accidentally, he was out shooting BB guns with his kid and he's on this big part of land and he sees this down bull and he goes over to it and he's looking at it and it's unlike anything he has ever seen in all of his years before. Had surgical cuts. There is no doubt somebody killed, cut up this animal with those classic like the ear gone two types of tools like a scissor type. But by the way, I tried to cut it. It is not easy to cut. So they had sharp tools and then there's like a very thin slice type kind of cut. So I got to take it, get samples, take them to labs and try to see what type of tools did this. How did they do this with no blood on the ground and all the soil around it was dead. So I was like, well, why is it all dead? Is that a natural thing? So I took soil samples and took them to a lab. And again, I'm outside of my, this is weird to me. But I think it's a real phenomenon. Somebody is killing these animals. Something, someone. Whatever you want to say it. Something, someone is killing these animals in a highly specified technical way that has been repeated since the 50s on. Our FBI has studied it. He has shown me so many reports of these in association with discs, saucers. Did this guy have any association with discs or saucers or anything? No, he's just a guy that owns the land. So he just found this cattle that's weirdly, weirdly mutilated. Somebody killed it. Yeah. And he's like, is this demonic? Is this some sort of Satanist thing? I said, I don't think so, man. This goes back in history. Like I'm looking at the cuts specifically. They're very unimpressive. What the heck? It doesn't look like a laser did it or some incredibly sharp scalpel. No, it was like a serrated one was a serrated tool. That's the thing I'm saying. It's like something that we could do. Oh, absolutely. We'd have to somehow do it though on in Texas land where the guy would shoot you in the face if you go and try to touch one of his cows. That's the other thing. No one's ever been caught. Never since. That's what's weird. Yeah, it's weird. It's frustrating too. I mean, I've been to the ranch, the skinwalker ranch in the basin more than two dozen times. I've never seen anything. I've interviewed the neighbors. I've interviewed the scientists. These are PhD level guys who had seen this stuff. A lot of times they have cameras that fail. I mean, it's, you know, you've heard that story before and this is very convenient that it happens just when some giant disk shows up, but it does happen that their car batteries would die in the same spot. Whatever it was, messed with them. And maybe it's humans. Maybe it is human technology, but no humans were ever found to be doing this stuff. NIDS was there for all those years. They didn't want to tell anybody about it. They shared the information with me, but you can't publish it. There's no real physical proof. So they just left it there. I had tried to do a documentary. Ended up, I talked to them and it'll let me write a book about it. But you know, if people, if you're looking for physical evidence and solid proof, they don't have it. What is the, what's the primary, are there any primary theories of why they do this to cows? Why someone's doing this to cows? You know, you need to catch somebody and ask them. That's really weird that no one's been caught.