The History of Cocaine and Why It's Illegal with Dr. Carl Hart

But again, I'm a responsible grown-up, right? I'm 54 years old and I know what I'm doing. So when we think about something like cocaine, cocaine, not the bullshit that people sell on the street that's been stepped on. So like when you go to places like Columbia and you go to the source and you get really good cocaine, like Columbia cocaine is about $7 a gram, whereas in New York it could be anywhere from $60 to $100 a gram. And not as good as a product in Columbia. So you go to the source countries and you get good stuff. It could be a really good evening with you and your significant other, you know? And all of these sort of stories of people being paranoid about the cops with cocaine, there are reasons to be paranoid if you're doing something wrong. So I get that. I mean, so... Also worried about being arrested. That's what I'm talking about. That's exactly what I mean. So there's a reason to... That's a rational sort of thing. But what's irrational is that we are arresting people for what they put in their bodies. Yes. Agreed. Yeah, agreed wholeheartedly. And I always point out that you can go to CVS and buy enough liquor to kill yourself. Absolutely. 24-7 all day long. Absolutely. So easy to do. Absolutely. Yeah. So but when we think about cocaine and why it's illegal. Yeah. Cocaine came to the United States for the popular masses in the late 1800s. And Coca-Cola, this guy, John Pendleton, I think his name was, he put it in Coca-Cola. Well, this product, a Coca-wine. And he was out of Atlanta. And he put it in Coca-wine in 1894. The next year Atlanta banned alcohol. So before Prohibition, alcohol was banned in Atlanta. Prohibition didn't have... Just Atlanta. Just Atlanta. I mean, cities... Interesting. Various cities banned this. Prohibition happened in 1920 nationwide. So since they banned alcohol in Atlanta, he had to come up with a new formulation. And he added... So what he did was tuck the alcohol out, added carbonated water and sugar. Then you have Coca-Cola. What? That's just how Coca-Cola... Wow. This is how Coca-Cola was made. And he put it in these soda fountains. So he sold the pharmacies at these soda fountains. And they were for whites only. So cocaine was typically available only to white people at that time. But then in, I guess, maybe 1899, early 1900s, Coca-Cola began bottling the products. Now it's available to black people. And now you start to get the connection between violence and cocaine use among black people. And this sort of narrative grew and grew to the point where we banned cocaine effectively in 1914. Largely because of its association with black people using the drug. A similar thing happened with opium and the Chinese. That's the real reason that those drugs are banned. Not because of pharmacology. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Now that's not to say that people can't get in trouble with these drugs. But people do. You know, like... Just like they can get in trouble with alcohol. That's right. That's right. But the only stories that we tell about cocaine is the one where people get in trouble. Yes. But I got to tell you, recently I watched Pete Davison's movie. What was that? The King of Staten Island? Yes. I think it is. It was the first time in a popular movie where a hero used cocaine. And he was still a hero. So you might remember the scene where Steve Buscemi and I think Bill Burr, they were talking about... I didn't see the movie. It was a great scene. I heard it was great. A great scene where they were talking about Pete's dad. And Pete's dad had used cocaine previously. And Pete didn't know this. But it was just a matter of fact. The guy used cocaine. He liked his cocaine. But he was still the good guy. He was a fireman. He was a hero. He was all of these things. And they didn't besmirch him for using cocaine. It's one of the few times that you see in popular culture that somebody uses something like cocaine. And they're not besmirched. They don't go down this path of becoming an addict and losing all of their possessions because of the drug. And so I thought like they're doing something here that's different. And that was really... That was a great scene. Yeah. Most of the stereotypes about cocaine in Hollywood are people using people, seedy people, people that have no compassion for each other, ruthlessly ambitious people doing coke and just full of themselves and high on themselves and I'm going to take over this fucking town. That's what you hear and see. Yeah. Yeah. I hope that changes. Man. No. Yeah. Well, I mean, I would try it with you. Yeah. I would try it. Yeah. All right. Especially listening to you and knowing you probably get the real shit. Yeah. I just... I avoid things that make me confident. I'm not interested in that. I'm confident enough. I'm plenty confident. I like things that scare me. That's why I like marijuana so much. I do. I do. People think I'm kidding. I'm not. I like the paranoia. I like freaking out because I always come out of it at the other end with some sort of a lesson because I think sometimes we can shield ourselves from things that are we're really worried about or shield ourselves. From concerns that we have or even from ruthlessly introspective thoughts that come with high doses of marijuana. And that's the thing that freaks a lot of people out. I find them very beneficial. Some of the best moments I've had personally or after some of the wildest trips where I was like, boy, this is rough. And then but at the end when it's over, I come out feeling so much better. I feel you. I mean, that's great. I mean, because, you know, that's useful. You feel like you're a better person. That's cool. But sometimes you just want to be euphoric and just enjoy your significant other. Sure. I mean, you know what I'm saying? So and so cocaine or some other drug might be useful for that. And so it's not like you have to have only that experience that frightens you and you become a better person at the end of it. I'm all for that. That's fine. You got that. But I would just say broaden your repertoire. That's it. The problem is like get if it was legal, it'd be great. Like you could get pure cocaine and you knew what you were getting. But if you're getting cocaine in Austin, Texas, you're probably getting it from some sketchy dude. Yeah. Who is also selling a bunch of other shit. Yeah. I mean, I'm an imagining I've never tried to buy it. Yeah, but you know, two things here. We got the technology to put on the streets where people can just submit small samples of their drug, 10 milligrams, which is nothing. And then they get a chem. They get a readout of the chemical composition of their drug. Right. We have that technology. If the public would put pressure on their officials to make sure that it's available to people where they can submit their drugs, small samples of their drugs free. And anonymously. And then they get this readout. The problem is it's so taboo. Like if you even admit that you do cocaine, people are like, look at this guy. Ready to ruin his fucking life. Barely hanging on over there, Carl. Look at you. What's doing cocaine? This is why in the book I admit my heroin use, my cocaine use, all of my drug use. So I'm trying to change that image because I have met people all around the world, some politicians and so forth and got high with these people. Of course, I won't say who they are, but the vast majority of people who use these drugs are people who are responsible, take care of their families. They care about their communities. They do all this sort of stuff. But Hollywood and the media and the mythology is so powerful in showing only this one image. Yes. And I'm trying to really disrupt that because it's so harmful to so many people. Spotify is absolutely free. You don't have to have a premium account to watch new JRE episodes. You just need to search for the JRE on your Spotify app. Go to Spotify now to get this full episode of the Joe Rogan experience.