NY Times Writer Details Anti-Semitism by Progressives | Joe Rogan

of these leaders and actually look at what they believe and what they believe Some of them is extremely disturbing especially when it comes to Jews So I write this column and I'm like Pilloried for it by the left one of the leaders of the women's march this woman Bob Bland wrote this letter to the New York Times where she calls me It was amazing. I want to find what it was. Oh She calls me an apologist for the status quo racist ideology and the white nationalist patriarchy Because you responded to someone because I said the greatest of all time Is a man who calls you as a termites who calls Jews termites who calls Judaism a gutter religion? Who says that we should burn in ovens and who by the way is a misogynist? Homophobe also the leaders of the women's march are associating with this guy and had the nation of Islam security Protecting them. I mean, this is like the most sort of retrograde hate group and yet for calling them out I was called all of these things now. I think that flies It's a deep question I think that part of it is the fact that in Intersectional left-wing politics Jews have been whitewashed Jews are viewed as sort of the white privileged power and part of the white patriarchy unless they Genuflect and say actually no we you know We abhor our privilege and all of the other things that you're supposed to say and there's no Right and there's a blindness to the fact that first of all not all Jews are white Half of the Jews in the state of Israel for example are Arab and from Arab countries that they were kicked out of in 1948 I mean the idea that Jews are white is this Canard although I'm an Ashkenazi Jew. I'm my family's from Eastern Europe I have white skin, but I don't think of mine. I have white privilege, but I don't think of myself as white person I think of myself as a Jew first and foremost, so it's a complicated identity But I think that it's sort of it's whitewashed by these people and I think that anti-semitism Just isn't taken seriously and doesn't rate because people perceive Jews as having privilege and power in this country Which largely they do but the fact is is that the actual statistics show? That more hate crimes were committed against Jews in the past year than any other minority group The FBI is like sounding the alarm every other day in Crown Heights and in other parts of Brooklyn Random Jews who look Jewish right who are Hasidic Jews are just beaten up for being Jewish and yet everyone's ignoring that Because they're the imperfect victim Well, they're also very isolated They're very they they're they have their own tribe. They stick with them. They look different. They dress different sure But imagine if any other minority group someone I mean we're outraged when we see at least I am and you are when we see a police officer assaulting Someone you know what I'm saying is a young black person They don't make a big deal to go into the public about it They keep it almost insulated inside their environment and their community. There's also what I was gonna say is they These people that are that you you do hear saying anti-semitic things They're equating American Jews living in America with the policies of Israel and what Israel is doing with Palestine And that somehow or if you're an American Jew, even if you're not even political you're somehow another complicit with atrocities that are going on between the Jewish people and the Palestinians right conflict any kind of conflict and this makes it Reinforces their idea about you being a part of this Group. Yes, but they also straw-man it and say criticism of Israel isn't anti-semitic. Yes No one's saying that criticism is of Israel's anti-semitic. I criticize Israel all the time But there's an obsession on the state of Israel like if you were an alien that landed from outer space You would think that the greatest oppressor in the world is this tiny state. That's the size of New Jersey These people say nothing about the Jenna generally about the genocide of Uyghur Muslims in China They say nothing about any number. I don't even aware that oh, there's a genocide going on carried out by the government of China Against Uyghur Muslims. They're literally being put into concentration camps This is literally a first I've heard of this. So Uyghur is spelled U-I-G-H U-R Where's a what is a good thing to read about the New York Times? That we've reported on it. It's it's an enormous story and it's like the fact that that's getting Know it that you don't know about it. Yeah, and that people Obsessively talk about the state of Israel as if it's the end by the way the state of Israel does lots of things wrong But the idea that it's among the worst human rights tragedies of our time. Are you kidding me? It's insanity. I Don't know the reality of what is going on in Gaza. I don't know what is happening with Israel and Palestine I don't know so I'm not gonna be the person that talks about this But what I do know I can send you some stuff to read What I do know from people that have gone there like Abby Martin who came back with some pretty horrific stories I think there's a lot of terrible shit going on There's a lot of awful violence and there's a lot of despair on the side of the Palestinians And I don't I don't know who's to blame for that But many people blame the Israelis they blame the Israelis for treating the Palestinians as if they're in This one area of the world is essentially a large prison well Lots to say about this but I think one of the main problems that we have in the way that Israel is covered is that if If you have a camera lens and you're only looking at a tiny Piece of land right you're only looking at Israel proper the West Bank in Gaza, right? Israel to some extent is the Goliath in that situation But if you zoom out your camera just a little you see that Israel is literally surrounded on all sides By genocidal regimes like in the form of Hamas in Gaza whose charter Blames the Jews for fomenting the French revolutions the Russian revolutions both world wars and says that it wants to kill all the Jews That's what that's the government of Gaza right now. I spoke to a mother Who fled Gaza recently? Okay, and her family's house was just destroyed who is it destroyed by Hamas not Israel. You never hear those stories So I'm just saying it is a very complicated Politics But when you see people obsessively focusing on this one state and the crimes of this one state to the exclusion of actual Dictatorships in the world who are killing their own people you have to be suspicious of that you do have to be suspicious and You do have to be aware of their position in the world surrounded by Arab states and you do have to realize that they are You know, they're they're alone out there. Yeah, you also I do wonder What is the motivation for so many people focusing on Jews? What is it? What do you think it is as a Jewish person? What do you think the motivation for this kind of racism and discrimination against Jews and why is it tolerated? Why why can someone like Louis Farrakhan tweet that Jews are termites and his Twitter account stays up? Well, it's the oldest hatred in the world, right a lot of it sound what it is. No, no, no You're asking me why is it still with us? It's like the mystery of history Like that is that is deep. I mean that is something that goes back to the New Testament Mm-hmm. Okay, the Jews were blamed in the book of John and Mark I mean we could go to Matthew for the death of Jesus their role in that story at least according to some of the books is That they convinced the most powerful Empire at the time the Roman Empire in the form of the governor of Judea Pontius Pilate to kill the Son of God That becomes sort of the template for the anti-semitic conspiracy theory. There's there's a confusion about what anti-semitism is right? It's not just a hate. It's not just like this hate of a group racist perceive themselves as punching down against a group That's lesser anti-semites perceive themselves as punching up against the secret cabal of wily operators Who secretly control the levers of power that is the canard of anti-semitism and that begins with this group? That's able somehow to get the Roman Empire to kill Jesus now the Catholic Church disavows this in 1965 Which was you know an enormous historical event? But that template is still there and you see it play out right in who led us into the war in Iraq Ah, it was the Jews of the Bush administration You can see it play itself out all over the place and right now in the demonology of current contemporary anti-semitism Israel has sort of been made into the Jew among the nations. You're not allowed to say anymore It's like the old-school anti-semitism right like I grew up in a place where there were some country clubs where Jews couldn't go into them That frankly that's not dangerous What's dangerous is the kind of anti-semitism that says you know this one state in the world of all of the almost 200 states That's the one that doesn't have the right to exist. That's the one that should be dismantled That's actually dangerous to Jewish lives right now. It is it's an unusual group in that it is both a religion and a tribe Yes, it makes us very hard to understand in the contemporary landscape because we are not just a religion There's nothing else like it because most Jews that I know do not practice Judaism Right and the other self Jews yes, because we were a peoplehood before we were a religion Yeah religion is a very contemporary modern thing that Jews are sort of slotted into and it makes us easier to understand but then our sort of national identity or peoplehood our tribalism is Left out and that's an essential part of who the Jews are my friend. Ari Shafir who's a fantastic stand of comedian he's a Rabbit atheist, but he's also very Jewish and he has a new hour that he's working on right now That he's gonna film called Jew really and he's an atheist. I want to see it. Yeah, it's great, but he's you know He's a perfect example. It is a tribe. It's not just a religion, but it's also because The Jewish religion itself the emphasis is the emphasis is not on what you believe the emphasis is on deeds It almost doesn't matter what you believe it matters that you Follow halacha which is Jewish law and matters your deeds it matters all these things So it's possible to be a good Jew and not really think about God that much which is very strange I understand to Christian ears right or you go full Ben Shapiro Where he's both a good Jew and very much like follows the whole deal where the whole deal the whole deal Um Why do you say but I think sorry can I say no, please please? I just find it like kind of astonishing the blindness to this because imagine a leader of the Women's March said something like You know, I think Lewis CK is the greatest comedian of all time Even though I disavow x y and z thing that he did how fast till that person was kicked out of the leadership of the Women's March it would be like minutes hours. Yes, I Think there are certain things that get people outraged and other much worse things that do not and I'm fascinated by why that is Do you think that if it was a white person that had this opinion about the Jews that it would be more scrutinized? I think that it is much easier to fight anti-semitism when it comes in the form of Richard Spencer. Yes Yeah, because then there's liberal Consensus, right about him He's also you have a green light to criticize. Yeah, it's very it is much harder when when an ant exactly it's much harder when Someone like Ilhan Omar the new freshman senator Sorry, not senator the new freshman Congresswoman from Minnesota who's like this incredible American dream story comes here at 12 years old refugee from Somalia Where's a hijab is a mother is the first woman of color representing, Minnesota? Like obviously I want to cheer her That's my reaction to her and yet she has this tweet that she refused to apologize for where she says Israel has hypnotized the world May Allah awaken the world to the evil doings of Israel. I'm sorry That's a classically anti-semitic trope even if she said it unwittingly and by this point she should have no she should educate herself So it's very it's much harder To criticize that but it's it's an untenable position to say that you can't criticize someone for their ideas because of their identity It also seems like a road to nowhere if you're gonna say that that is a very vague thing to say You should be incredibly specific if you want to say it's evil You should say what's evil and then open that up to some sort of a discussion or debate But what is evil but ascribing? Supernatural evil powers to a state is Very much recalling classic anti-semitic canards, right? So I really wrote a piece about this today trying to like explain that to people Yes, because she went on CNN saying I don't know how Jewish Americans could be offended by this which I think is incredible Yeah, what do you think if I mean if you want to be objective as I mean step outside of your Jewish identity What do you think is wrong with? How Israel is dealing with the Palestinian situation Because this is the big criticism of Israel the only criticism really that's the big one the big one is Gaza and Palestine So what do you think they're doing wrong Palestine meeting the West Bank? Yes. Well, I would say what? The untenable position that they're in is that they are occupying another people That is what is going on in the West Bank and I've been there many times met with many Palestinians I've really educated myself on this. The problem is is that and by the way, it's not all of Palestine There's sorry all the West Bank. There's areas a B and C. It's a Really like we'd have to pull up a map. It's a pretty complicated thing There are places where it's much more autonomous and the PA is in charge and it really varies depending on the area So the big criticism right is that they're occupying and other people and that is corrosive to the state of Israel sort of morally like to Occupy and other people on the other hand what happens if they pull out of the West Bank tomorrow, right? I'm for a two-state solution ultimately ending the occupation But if I'm real I have to be honest about what that would look like Well, what it looked like in Gaza is that now you have a terrorist state lit right at the border, which is ruled by Hamas It is quite likely that that very same thing could happen in the West Bank now Let's say actually should pull up a map. Let's let's say Israel does that then like the whole of Israel proper is something like We have to looks two miles wide. We see it. We actually yeah, we should look at the the distance between Like to a car. I'm more like the end of the West Bank and Natania or Tel Aviv and you see how small that is Mm-hmm. I mean, it's hard to even conceive of it if you're in charge of Protecting the security of the people who live in places Which by the way 10 years ago when the year after high school when I was living there there were suicide bombings blowing up In cafes around the corner from where I lived Are you gonna subject those people to that risk? I mean, that's the that's the actual question facing the government of Israel Which by the way, I'm extremely critical of and if I lived in Israel, I'd be voting, you know Center left in Israel for sure but that is what they're facing and then if you zoom out and you pull up a map Of all of the countries around it. I Just want like look No, it's okay actually the one you were on was good because it showed if you zoomed out it had everything So you have Egypt there then you have Jordan which is teetering then you have Syria then you have Lebanon and Hezbollah's on the the southern border of Lebanon, which is constantly which you know, so that's The real thing so when people talk about this fantasy of why can't it just look like America? Why can't there just be a democratic one-state solution? First of all, no one there wants it they pull people constantly but the second thing is like That really what that's gonna look like if we dismantle the state of Israel or is it gonna look like? Enormous bloodshed the likes of which we see in a lot of these countries surrounding it like Someone once said to me that if you want to know the word for you know a Jew without a military. It's the Yazidis Okay, it's the Yazidis. It's the people it's the minorities in the Middle East who have been absolutely Destroyed and overrun and this is like it's I don't think when Americans talk about this part of the world they fully appreciate the sort of Absolutely painful and hard decisions and the grappling with Violence really, you know what happened to Jamal Khashoggi in that Saudi Embassy. That's like normative for this part of the world So the fact that Israel has somehow with all of its flaws managed to eke out a Western style liberal democracy Frankly the only place where you and I would feel happy and comfortable living like why are we never talking about that? well, I think it's very difficult for people to find the forum to discuss it the way you just did and to really Lay it out in cold stark reality What is the solution? What is the solution? I mean is it there is no magic the solution right now is to do everything possible To build up the Palestinian economy to for Israel to build relationships Like right now it has a very very positive Relationships with Egypt which gave back the Sinai which I did one in the six day six day war I believe gave it back to Egypt for a cold peace which it's had it has a Good relationship of all things who would have thought was Saudi Arabia because of their common enemy Iran I mean things shift there rapidly But but as for the Palestinians the solution is to build up the economy Make life better and support people in movements inside the West Bank that are genuinely Nonviolent and those people exist. It's just frankly Oftentimes they're murdered by groups like Hamas and their bodies are dragged through the streets If you're accused of being an Israeli collaborator in the West Bank, you know what happens to you you're lynched No one talks about that No, no one does talk about that Would would you be open to discussing this in this sort of a form with that woman from the women's March? Sure, do you think she would do something like that? I don't know I'd be open to it Do you think that people like her have ever had a conversation with someone like you who could lay it out? I'm not no because I think that first of all many people who talk about this issue have sort of exported American domestic politics to a Foreign region of the world like in a way that this has talked about a lot It's like the oppressor the oppressed the white the black. No, that's not what's going on I don't think people understand when they talk about Israeli Jews that half of them are Middle-eastern like half of Israeli Jews are Arab. Mmm, you know, there's no appreciation of that reality They think that Israel was just founded, you know To save the remnant of the Jews who weren't destroyed in the Holocaust and yeah, it helped for those who survived But then once the state of Israel was established there was a mass exodus of the Jews From all of the Arab countries where they had been living as second-class citizens where they were either Self-deported because they were living as second-class citizens or they were expelled again that exodus that deportation never talked about I Would be happy to talk about this with someone from the women's March. What is the what is the response? Currently like what is the the current position that most people are taking about that woman and about the woman's March in general Because of these things because of these anti-semitic statements I think a lot of people in the past few weeks Thanks in part to Megan McCain had five minutes on the view with Tamika Mallory and Bob Land and she did an amazing job Grilling them on the imagine that the view the view is what's changed, but it's amazing I know but she did an amazing job because because Frankly because their image was so powerful in the same way that the image at the Lincoln Memorial was so powerful Journalists just sort of accepted it and didn't enter That's 500,000 people in the streets who doesn't want to support that but it's our job to be skeptical and Criticized right so I think finally a lot of people woke up to it But again, I wrote that column in August 2017 and it took until now everything in that column is the thing people are talking about There was also an amazing ten thousand word expose and tablet magazine and Jewish online magazine They did a lot of that work. So I think it did reach a tipping point the thing that is I See a lot of my friends on the left who are Jewish grappling with is that they so desperately Want to be a part of these movements that they're willing to sort of check their identity at the door in order to gain entry and My thing is any progressive movement that's asking you to check your Jewish identity at the door your full Jewish identity Which is acknowledging that we're not just a faith, but we're a people we're not just people that like have matzah ball soup or something bigger than that That's not a space. I want to be a part of they would never ask that of any other group. Why us? Well, why why do they ask that that that that's what the real question I really think well No, I think a lot of it goes back to what I was saying before which is this misunderstanding If you see the world in an intersectional way, okay, not is intersectionality was originally meant to be but how it functions in the world it functions as a caste system and The higher you are on the victim scale at least on the left and it's reverse on the right right on the right It's like white cisgendered men are at the top on the left there at the bottom and the Jews are somewhere close down to there At least in the way that the left the left I mean this part of the left we're talking about fringe at least for now perceive the Jews to be the woke left Yeah The Jews are not the Jews don't rate the Jews don't have a place in that victim scale because they've achieved so much success because they can pass as white because of any number of things and So I think that that's a huge reason for it, which is a huge reason why I think Intersectionality is a dead end and why we need to be talking about Ideas and not identity right like that that is the thing about America that is so amazing and like I know it sounds cheesy But I really feel it that makes us so special. We are not a country based on Blood and soil we are a country whose national common identity is based on Ascribing to a common set of ideas that is what we're about And so any politics that's insisting from the left or the right that know actually what we are is this Warring set of groups competing for scarce resources Absolutely not to me those kinds of politics are un-american