Marianna van Zeller Infiltrated a South American Cocaine Operation

You do real boots on the ground investigative journalism. You are a fucking gangster woman. The shit that you did in Peru and in Colombia. I was watching that episode on cocaine. My hands were sweating watching you do this. It's like you were, you went to the places where they're growing it to the places where they make it. Whoo. Yeah. That was, you marched with the people that carry it through the route when they're carrying it in their backpacks. Yeah. I was like, oh my God, like you're risking your life, like genuinely risking your life. I don't like to see it that way. You know, no story is worth a life. So I hate, I hate, you know, we minimize the risk, but you know, there's, these are important stories to tell. These black markets are happening all around us. They're super widespread. I think we have this idea that they're happening in sort of faraway lands and deep and secret locations, but they're not, and they have a real impact on our lives. So there is a reason why we do the kind of reporting and you're right, you know, boots on the ground, old school journalism, I think is more important now than ever. And we are seeing less of it nowadays. It's so hard to do. I mean, to find someone willing to do what you did for that cocaine episode. I watched it last night. I was, I was sweating. I was like nervous. I was riveted. It's, it's such a, it's such a dangerous, but yet it's so much more illuminating than any other kind of journalism. You could say, oh, this is happening in Colombia. Oh, this is happening in Peru. And I'll just sit at home going, Oh, I guess that's happening in Colombia. But to see you who I know, they're going there and to see all the stuff that you had to go through to meet with these people and to gain their trust. Yeah. I would say also, I would add to that, that, you know, we did Mexico with fentanyl. We did guns here in the West going to Mexico. We did tigers in Asia and all these different scams in Jamaica and Israel. And I think a big important reason or goal for us with this show, and for me in particular, because it's the way that I approached my job and my career as a journalist, is to not only be there to inform of what's happening like you were saying, but also I think it's important for people to connect to people in these faraway lands that at first glance, we have nothing in common, right? These are the bad guys operating in far distant lands or maybe sometimes around us, but they're considered the bad people, the people that we have nothing in common with. But if you actually sit down with them and listen to their stories, and this is the big shocker of this show, and I think it rubs people the wrong way sometimes when you admit or when somebody tells you that, look, actually there is not a lot that differentiates you from the guy smuggling cocaine out of the Peru, the Vrain Valley in Peru. You both have the same, are motivated by the same goals, which is, you know, happiness, an opportunity in life, a chance for, you know, to reach your dreams. And unless you actually look at it this way and start realizing that that is more often than not the case, of course there's a lot of bad people there doing it for greed and solely greed. That also happens, and I spent a lot of time with those people as well. But unless you start understanding sort of the root causes of what leads people into these lives, you're never going to be able to address black markets. Well, you really did a fantastic job of getting close to these people and talking to them like, you know, they were talking about their family, they were talking about their children. The one guy who is the chemist who wants to get out because he wants to go to school. And like, this is my last year. Yeah, it's horrible. That story alone, we spent the night with these muchilleros, these backpackers, teenagers who carry the loads of cocaine on their back out of the valley and spending time with them. And, you know, really dangerous work. They tell us stories about how they hike for days on end out of the Amazon, the Vrain Valley to a place where then it's sent out into outside of the country to Europe and to the United States. And you spend time with these guys and you listen to them. And it's incredibly dangerous work, too. They've seen their best friends being killed in front of them. And I asked them, so why would you ever want to do something like this? You know, and she's like, look, very simple. I grew up in a very poor family. I always wanted to go to college. I knew that the only job opportunities, the whole economy is essentially sustained by the growing of coca leaves, production of cocaine and smuggling of cocaine. So the only job opportunity here I had was this. And I asked him, why do you want to go to college so badly? Perhaps a stupid question. But he said, you know, because I want to be a dentist. I said, why a dentist? Because I want to make people smile. And this just is like these are the moments that I think will really stay with me. And it was so genuine. Like the experience was so raw, like all of it from showing the families growing the coca leaves. And I learned something from it. I always assumed that it was the organized crime cartels that were growing the coca leaves. But no, it's these families, these very poor families that are growing these coca leaves and drying them out by the road where everyone could see. So you have children playing. You have these very poor people that are growing this this crop. And the vast majority of it is sold to the cartels. And they they're not selling it for a lot of money either. No, not at all. It's never the people at the bottom that are making money. It's always the people at the top. It's crazy that these are the people that are growing it. Yeah, like this whole valley has been growing coca for thousands of years. It's what they do. And it's also crazy that the thing itself, the coca leaf, like there's actually been people that have made a really good argument that not only should that stuff be legal, but it's probably good for you. Yeah, the coca leaf a lot, if alone, if it is not made into cocaine, it's if you chew it, you know, you go to the Andes and all around, they actually chew the coca leaf. I had an opportunity to do that. There was a moment where one of them I mean, you do it, it helps you without high altitude sickness and it helps you gain more energy. And when we were filming with a group, they actually wanted me to try some. I had tried some before, but I did it as well then. And it tastes, it's actually doesn't taste, it's kind of tastes like a leaf, quite frankly. But you do feel a little bit more energy and there's nothing, there's nothing illegal about that, by the way. That's completely something that's been doing. They've been, it's been the tradition in this area for, you know, thousands of years. And when you did it, like what gave you energy? Like what did it feel like? It's not like a bump of cocaine. Have you done a bump of cocaine? I actually have not, you know, it's so funny, I spent my entire life reporting on drugs and the drug trade. And I am, and I'm, you know, people, you know, like do crazy shit for a living. And yet I'm terrified of drugs, I think partly because I've seen how they're done. Well, after the OxyContin Express and seeing how many people's lives are destroyed by a legal drug, I could, I could imagine why you would want to avoid the ones that are illegal. I've never done coke either. That's why I'm asking. Oh, you haven't? No, never. I think we're some of the only two people. I took tea once, mate de coca tea. Have you ever had that? Made with coca leaves. Yeah. And I couldn't shut the fuck up. There's a problem already. That's a problem with me too. That's exactly my problem. Is that I am high energy all the time. If I were to do cocaine, then I don't think anyone could. Exactly. I, my friend Jimmy in high school, when we're, when we're young, one of his buddies was, was selling coke and he just looked at me and he goes, you should never do this stuff. I go, why? He goes, because I think you'd love it. And I'm like, okay. That's partly my problem too. I'm afraid that I'm going to. I think everybody loves it. I think it makes you feel amazing. I mean, there's got to be a reason why it's so popular. Catch new episodes of the Joe Rogan Experience for free only on Spotify. Watch back catalog JRE videos on Spotify, including clips, easily, seamlessly switch between video and audio experience. 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