Joe Rogan - The Issue with Patreon Banning Sargon of Akkad

People ask me how do you define wealth you define wealth when your young daughter before you step on the Joe Rogan platform Writes this to you. She wrote. I love you. That's very cute. That's wealth. I'm a billionaire Yeah it's Valuable wouldn't say it's wealth. I think you're not being accurate with your words by the way I will probably keep this forever more you should yeah, definitely don't put in your pocket. What if you sweat on it? Okay? Yeah So we were talking right before the podcast started about What I was just talking about in the previous podcast about patreon and what patreon has done to? Deep-platform sargon of a cod and what I think we both agree was sloppy use of language on his part But he what I don't believe he was saying something racist. He was using a racist word though He was using it to describe someone. He was actually using it against white nationalists And against white supremacists and saying how ridiculous they were being and that they were being exactly What they describe and when they're using racist terms to describe black people But he did it using those terms and it it wasn't a good speech Like what he said and one of the things that I'd said on the previous podcast is when you do podcast You're not mapping out what you're going to say you're free-flowing Sometimes words come out clunky and and I think that was what what was going on in the case with him in this particular Conversation that he had it wasn't even on his page and patreon decided to ban him and I think for him that was Something to tune of like twelve thousand dollars or more a month. Yeah, so quite a bit of his income You know a lot of us then suggested that people moved to subscribe star which was a another platform that came out of nowhere and They've now been shut down how they get shut down. I don't know the details. I hope I'm not misspeaking but I think PayPal and stripe decided that somehow they're violating, you know, their terms of their term in the terms of service for whatever reason and Apparently any payouts that have gone out are safe But you it won't happen through PayPal or through Stripe. So you have to find some alternate platform I think pay a near or some So it's getting difficult to to even receive the generous donations from people so a lot of people That are doing podcasts and doing these YouTube shows. They operate on donations, which is a Really fair way to do things because you're if say if you have a subscription based service and you're Asking people like save for serious satellite radio or something like that you might not be happy with the content and you might you might choose to cancel your subscription, but These people can get what they get already for free All right, they choose to donate because they think it's valuable to them, which is really interesting I like that that format that model because for the longest time people are trying to figure out How could you make money off the internet? Well, the idea was advertising revenue and Sam Harris has a lengthy rant That's very accurate about this that he puts on his podcast Often it's like a seven-minute rant explaining why he doesn't use ads And why he prefers to have people just donate what they were like and he was one of the biggest patreon people He was one of the biggest accounts on patreon. He pulled his patreon two days ago Right and you know, that was a huge statement because to him that is incredibly valuable I'm really curious to know what Jack Conti the founder of the of patreon What his ultimate trajectory is going to be as I mean as someone who who teaches psychology decision-making who studies decision-making? Who's housed in a business school? I'm I think it would be a wonderful case analysis down the road Probably Harvard will teach it of whether he just doubles down Which it seems like this is what they're doing because they released a statement that didn't seem to suggest that there was any sort of Possibility of reflection on their part. Do you have a sense of whether? The the market will allow him to sort of realign his thinking or do you think he's just going to double down all the way to hell? I think he's gonna weather the storm if I'm gonna be completely honest Not what I would like what I would like is for them to support free speech and for them to make a Differentiation between what is actual hate speech and what is a clunky use of language? Which is what I think is Sargon did right? It was a clunky use of language and I think Sargon is a very intelligent guy I've had him on the podcast. I've talked to him. He's very bright and He made on the show several makes great points. Yeah, he's a very smart guy When he was on It just When he's on someone else's show doing that You know, I felt like and this is one of the things I said in the last podcast I feel like if people decide that what he did was offensive to them to the point where they decided to not renew their subscriptions or not Continue to send him money through patreon That's probably the best use of that format and the best way for them and the market to decide That's really I think how it should be done Incidentally Regarding the n-word and I'm sure Jamie will now double-check what I'm saying as he always does There was a Dean at some university. I think out maybe in Seattle. I could be wrong that at some point had suggested Someone had asked which book a student asked which book should I read or I can't remember the exact story And I think the title of the book was the n-word Mmm, and she had I think the Dean was a was a woman if I'm mistaken Had simply recommended that book but she said the word out loud said the and she He or she I can't remember again the person's sex got into trouble So, you know, I wonder if we shouldn't just sort of demystify this word I mean if if if if people weren't so I mean we have to now say the n-word right? We have to say the r-word I got banned from Twitter for 12 hours Because at one point I was interacting with some schmuck who I called retarded degenerate Whatever it was I can't remember the exact combination of missiles and I was banned for using the r-word So, I mean, where does this end? I mean what how many more words do we have to remove from the lexicon? I mean don't give these words so much power don't don't be so sensitive I mean, I know we've talked about these kinds of issues in the past But does it not seem to you outrageous that someone who recommends a book with the title being the n-word gets into trouble? I mean, it's insane. Well, there's even better one Netflix there was an executive at Netflix that was forced to resign due to my friend Tom Segura's comedy special and my friend Tom Segura has a bit in his act about How there's certain words that are just gone you can't use anymore and he says Retard he's like that word you can't use that word anymore and he goes on and it's not about using that word He what he's basically he's not like he's not Justifying the use of the word. He's just simply stating that this is a word that you could no longer use so They get attacked a bunch of letter writing campaign from mental health organizations And you know people dealing with people that have disabilities and are saying that you're you're being ableist and you're being Discriminatory and all these different things and they're basically trying to silence him even though if you look at the actual bit itself He's not using it to describe a person. He's just essentially Acknowledging that the word exists. So this guy who's an executive at Netflix says in a meeting You can't use that word because that word it's like saying nigger around black people Just says that You're gonna get in trouble now. No, I said it in the earlier show too. I'm just say when I read Sargon of our Cods thing It's preposterous to say the n-word and I've said the n-word before and in most cases I will say it But he actually said the word and the reason why he said the word the reason why I just said the word is because he was Trying to demonstrate like that. This is an offensive thing like saying retard is just like saying that He gets fired for that for simply making this comparison that You know and we're talking about uncensored stand-up comedy by the way This is a network that features that word Prominently on several different comedy specials in multiple situations Whether it's Cat Williams multiple uses of the word Dave Chappelle I mean that word gets thrown about like a beach ball at a fucking concert that word gets tossed around a lot But this guy's saying it because he's white. They're like II enough of your work here, sir Speaking of comedy and sort of political correctness with comedy In in my forthcoming book. I have a section where I talk about Professors who got into trouble. I mean we've all heard about the comedians getting into trouble for violating some politically correct victim But professors many cases very very high profile professors getting in trouble for incredibly innocuous jokes And actually I brought a list of names because I thought I might not remember them Can I mention a few a few the cases? so Lazar Greenfield who was the president elect of the American College of Surgeons and the editor-in-chief of a journal called surgery news had written an editorial a few years ago where he was talking about the antidepressant benefits of Coming in contact with sperm in other words It and this was based on a peer-reviewed scientific paper Actually two of the authors of that paper are folks that I know quite well friends of mine and They had demonstrated that women who have protected sex versus unprotected sex end up scoring differently on these depressive measures in other words there was some sort of protective element to actually being exposed to sperm and so in his editorial he made a joke it was during Valentine's said so now there is a Gift that a man can give a woman that's beyond flowers or chocolates or something to that effect He had to step down from being president of the American College of Surgeons He had to step down from being editor-in-chief Because a whole bunch of women were very offended by that sperm joke now the the the authors of the paper in question Wrote a brilliant respond response where they said how how could he be? treated in this way when all he was doing is Actually literally reporting the data the findings from our peer-reviewed study. So that's one example. Another example is certain I think it's third Tim Hunt who was a Nobel Prize winner in 2001 Right who he basically he was speaking I think in Korea at a you know Women in science conference where he very in a jocular way said, you know It's a real problem when you have women in your lab They fall in love with you you fall in love with them and so it's better to have segregated labs His wife by the way is a staunch feminist who's a very prominent scientist And she confirmed that he's hardly you know a rabid sexist. He went through all sorts of hell Yeah, I remember that and he was joking and he was joking and I and in the book I discussed several other other of these examples. So so imagine you would think that a Unblemished exemplary career as a scientist up to getting a Nobel Prize could potentially protect you But one comment that someone decides can can unleash the tsunami of outrage and you're dead Well, I think the problem is reacting to the people that are reacting to the common. It's not the common itself It's the cowards that are running things that give into that And the Netflix thing is particularly disturbing because it was internal it was people that were working in this department that apparently went and protested and They just decided that his use was egregious and he shouldn't be able to say those sounds with his face. Yeah