Gary Clark Jr. & Suzanne Santo Talk About the Music Industry | Joe Rogan

You know, music industry stuff, I think I've been working really hard to go against the grain of, like right now I'm self-released, like I don't have a record company and I'm self-funded and it's really hard. But it's also really gratifying at the same time because, you know, right now I, since I left Honey Honey, you know, like Honey Honey's kind of on ice for, you know, sort of. Yeah, you didn't nuke the territory. No. You just moved out of the building. Yeah, well, we're figuring it out, you know. Well said. Well said. Oh my God. But, you know, the battle is getting ahead, you know, and being a woman and being in my 30s and not, like, you know, no one wants to hop on board until they know it's working. Even though I made this incredible record and it's so well-received and then folks are like, yeah, well, you know, call us when it's working rather than, like, get in now. Right. Of course. And, you know, I feel, I don't feel discouraged by that. I feel informed. But that's also a business move, you know, because it is, we're taking art and turning it into commerce and no one wants to bet on a horse that's not winning yet, you know. Right. And, you know, I'm pretty, I feel pretty good about what I'm doing. I don't think I should be doing something else. But it's still a struggle, you know. When I said I want to change the narrative, it's sort of like, I want to kind of prove to myself and others that, like, you can do it. Like, you find a way, you know, and it's really hard, but you can do it, you know, and you get help from your friends. Like, this is so cool to be here with you guys. Like, I don't know if I could really convey that enough that this is a huge help to what I'm trying to do right now. But, yeah, also, this is the thing that keeps me up at night of being like, oh, my God, this is so hard. But at the same time, you know, the music industry, I'll just speak to that right now. It's tough. Well, it seems to me, if I, as an outsider, who has no business in the music presence, when I look at it, I feel like it's a big ship that had to, like, cut parts of itself off. And now it's a smaller ship. And now it's like, whoa, it's still a pretty big ship, but it's not what it used to be. The money doesn't come in anymore in the form of record sales. So it's entrenched its tentacles deeper into the industry and other things like merchandise and live shows and all these different things to stay alive. And maybe it helps. Yeah. And maybe it doesn't. It depends entirely upon the artist. But, like, what you're doing at your point in your life where you're like, look, this isn't fucking working. What do I need to do? Like, being attached to this group's not doing it. Being attached to that group's not doing it. What the fuck's doing it? Let me just try to not be attached to someone. Yeah. And through the Internet, you have the option to put your stuff out there. Yeah. And it gets a reaction from people with stuff like this. Yeah. And then they go, oh, shit, this bitch is talented. Well, you know, and thanks. First of all, that's sweet. You know, I love you. I love you, too. It's not like I want to take over the world. I just want to make a good living doing what I love. That's all I want. I know. And it's fucking hard. I know it's hard. But it's also, yeah, like, I want to capture that thing. I want to get into the right, tune into the right radio station and also not have to worry so much about not having enough to get by. You know, that kind of thing. And it sounds silly, but it's not like that. That is my reality. What is the major function of a record label? Not hating. Just wondering, what's the major function of a record label when you're not really necessarily selling records? So they are. Not trying to blow up anybody's business. Well, you want to weigh in on this? I can give a little bit. Yeah. They're for marketing, promotion. Marketing. They're the folks who help you with budgets for tour. They're a bank. So when it says, like, yeah, just for tour, is that because you have to lay out money in advance to set up a set and to make sure that everybody gets to the place, they have the money to get to the event and set everything up. And then then they would reap some of the rewards. So it's almost like an initial investment and then based on return from ticket sales. Right. So, yeah. So like, you know, it's it's expensive to be out on tour. Right. It's it's a lot to be out. You're paying for the anything and everything. You're paying to play basically. And so what they do is they come in and they'll help you with things like that. And and but sometimes it doesn't work for people. You know, and that's that's the thing is like people come into this thing going, oh, I made it. I've got this this deal. But if your record doesn't hit or whatever doesn't hit, then they've invested all this money. So it's kind of it puts this extra pressure on you to figure out what you need to do to make it. And I think some people go down a different route and would change up, switch up their thing. And and but they can be very helpful. Yeah, it depends on your attitude to a lot of it is your attitude and what you think of like, you know, are you being taken advantage of or is this an investment that's just going to pay off because there's so it goes so up and down, you know, depending on I would imagine it'd be hard to be free and creative and having a good time with it. If you feel like you're being taken advantage of, it'll put a dark cloud over it. Well, there's that. And I think there's also the misconception that once you get a big record deal and I've had a few where you think all of a sudden, like you have to stop doing something and they're going to do it for you. That is like the biggest mistake you could ever make. And if anything, you have to work harder and prove to them that like you're kind of worthy of their time and money. You know, sometimes it depends. It depends on the company. But you know, essentially like when you start a deal with with these folks, like they have a lot of your creative integrity in some ways, depending on the deal and how it's shaped. And, you know, they own your copyright if they want to own your record, depending on your deal. Sometimes you have more leverage than others. And, you know, if that's the case, like, fuck, yeah, good for you. That's so weird that they own the whole thing that they could ever own the whole thing. Well, I saw I saw you sell it for an exorbitant amount of money. The idea that you would own the whole song, like they would own the writing, the music, not the right. No, not that. Not that. Copyright and publishing are different things. Okay. So you could still have someone else do that song? So, okay. So I self-released my last record, Ruby Red, and I learned a lot because I hired my own PR and distribution companies. And I really got into the nuts and bolts on how all this shit works. And I'm not sure if this has changed because sometimes this is, you know, going back and forth. But when you own your copyright, the digital return on things like Spotify and iTunes are 10 to 1. So when the record companies own your copyright and all of your streaming is like kicking, like just fucking taking off, they're making tons of money on your streaming. So they're making 10 times more than you are? Yes. Jesus Christ. Yes. I know. Crazy demons. Wow. Major Labor's now earning over one million per hour from streaming. That's fucking insane. Holy shit. So they figured it out. They figured out how to get deeper into the arteries, like real close to the heart. But the hustle is like trying to get. But they also have the keys to a lot of doors, you know? It's like a weird trade-off. They do. But I have a feeling if you just look at the landscape that that is less and less of an issue almost every year. I don't know. I don't know if they know. As long as you don't create feuds, I don't think they necessarily have the keys to arenas. I think if you go through major agencies that's that's solved. And I think distribution over the Internet just through people finding out about it and sharing it, tossing it around, it's probably as useful, if not better than anything. Right. Because I'll find out about it. Podcasts find out about it. People on Twitter find out about it. They retweet shit. Instagram repost stuff. And then it hits millions and millions and millions and millions of people, 100 percent organic. And it happens all the time, which shit is good. I mean, it's almost like you're bankrolling on it not being a good idea if you do it with somebody else. It's like what you're doing is like bankrolling on yourself. You're saying like, I believe in myself. Let's just put this out. Whereas if you do it with a label, you have to so many people have to be. And there's nothing wrong with it. I'm sure it's worked out great for both you and on numerous occasions. But someone has to believe in you. You have to have to work with someone. There's a lot involved. And I'm sure like, well, first of all, there are some great companies. I don't know what, like, you know, what label you work with. Yeah, we're good. Yeah. Like some of them. And obviously because you're fucking amazing and you're crushing it. And, you know, like some companies, that's not the case. And, you know, people's jobs depend on your success. And if they're scared and they go in in this in this way that it's not like it doesn't hit or something like they drop you fast. And, you know, I'll speak. Oh, yeah. Maybe not. That's twice. Hold it together. Well, you remember when Prince had to change his name to a fucking symbol. Oh, yeah. Yeah, exactly. That is the perfect example. That's the perfect example. Imagine you are trying to keep Prince. That's just business. G.O.A.T.S. of all time. Yeah. I mean, of all time goats. He's he was androgynous before anybody knew what the fuck it was. He was dancing around with high heels. No one could say shit because it was so good. Think about all the homophobia. We're talking about transphobia, homophobia. Think about all the shit he must have endured in like 1988 or whatever the fuck it is when he put out that first album and it didn't matter. And everybody it was so good. Everybody just had to step the fuck back. Like Purple Rain. It was the way he was dressed was ridiculous. Imagine if Ryan Reynolds was in a movie about a singer who dressed like I can imagine. Purple Rain. He's so good. He gave himself a handicap. He said I'm going to dress like a goddamn king. He didn't say shit because my fucking music is so good. He would drive up on a motorcycle. No helmet. Shut the fuck up, bitch. I'm doing whatever I want. I'm Prince. He was on another planet. Look, come on. Oh.