Former Intelligence Agent on Air Force UFO Sightings

What do you think about all this stuff about, I mean, the New York Times had articles about it, this Air Force test pilots have come out talking about encountering flying saucers, or unidentified flying objects, particularly Commander Fraver who had that David Frayer thing. Yeah. What do you think about all that? Yeah. We do, you know, I'm a shameless marketer. We do an episode on that, on ATIP, on the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program. And look, again, I always say the same thing. I'm not a conspiracy guy. I tend to be very cynical about everything. But after talking to some of these folks, including Fraver and a handful of others who were both pilots and also were involved in the ATIP program for the US government, for the military, there's things out there that we haven't been able to identify. And I'm not jumping on the alien train, right, necessarily. But what I'm saying is that there are things that extremely experienced pilots, military pilots with significant amounts of experience couldn't figure out, couldn't identify. And so I'm certainly not going to be smart enough to say, okay, this is what it was. Was it a foreign government's experimental aircraft? Was it something? I don't know. But what I do know is that the US government took it seriously enough that they developed their own internal program within the Pentagon to try to sort out the wheat from the chaff, right, and say, okay, what do we actually have to worry about? In part because it's a national security issue, right? If there is an aircraft or if there's something up there that a pilot, a military pilot sees, for instance, that can't identify. All right, we have an obligation to figure out what that is because if it's a hostile foreign government's efforts to develop, you know, craft that we don't know about or propulsion systems we don't know about, then yes, we should be working on that issue. The problem has always been that once you talk about that, then people immediately go, oh, aliens, huh, Area 51, you know, and it kind of gets dismissed. But there was a much more serious effort than I knew about before I started working on this thing. So I don't know. I think, you know, I've got an open mind about that. You know, it's like that old, you know, thing about how, you know, can we really be the only people out here, right, or life forms out here. I don't know. That seems, you know, seems a little obscure for me to believe. It seems unrealistic. Yeah, yeah. So, but I feel like, When I go like, Fraver, that's the thing. When someone who's that rock solid comes out and tells the story and he's not deviating from his story, he's not a guy who's trying to make money, he's just, he doesn't have a history of telling fantastic stories. And he knew what it meant when he was going to come forward and talk about this. And you've got the gun cameras and you've got the radar operators who also saw the same thing. They saw it and they said it was actively jamming their radar. Yeah. Which they say, what the fuck? And then the way it moved from 60,000 feet down to like 200 feet and like less than a second. And no signs of, no signs of any propulsion system. Yeah. No, there's several things about that that, yeah, that leave you scratching your head. Again, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not making a case one way or the other. You know, the point of this is to, again, is to kind of use the money trail as a way to get inside some of these programs. And then to the degree that you can without, you know, to the degree that you can talk about things that are declassified, you know, not necessarily try to make a case. We're not trying to say it is this or it is that, you know, but I think we're presenting a lot of interesting information that, you know, again, with this situation with Fraver as an example, you know, you come away from it and you think, okay, I'm not dismissing anything at this point. Mm-hmm. Just, you know, it would be, I think, foolish to her or, anyway, so interesting stuff. But was that ever anything that came up during your career? No, no, we, no, I was pretty much straightforward, you know, pound the ground through some counterinsurgency operations, counter narcotics, counterterrorism operations. We never did any counter-alien things. That must have been it. That was a different operation. That was on a floor we weren't allowed to go on to at the headquarters. Seems like if we had to admit it was real, if it was something that was real and we were being contacted on a regular basis or at least a semi-regular basis, that would change the way everybody feels about everything. Yes. Remember when Reagan gave that speech? Mm-hmm. I think it was the United Nations. He said to imagine how easily we would come together if we were faced with a threat from an alien world. Right. Oh my God, he knows something. The aliens. He's about to spill the beans. Yeah, that's what we were hoping. No, it's, yes. All those UFO dorks like myself. Well, but think about it. I mean, think if, you know, if that did come out, which is what part of the allure, right, is the idea that, you know, the government's been keeping this from us for all these years and, you know, you think about what that would mean, not just obviously, oh my God, really, there's something going on out there, but then sort of that breakdown in trust, not that it's not happening already in terms of the government and its ability to, you know, play square. But yeah, I mean, look, Area 51. Area 51 was scouted out for use as an experimental test site for aircraft and, you know, made perfect sense. Well, then you get all these experimental aircraft being developed out there and flown some successfully, some not. And, you know, locals, you know, see this shit. You know, locals being a fairly good sized region because of the distance on these. And, you know, it's understandable how you start getting some of these stories. But, you know, having said that, you know, I sat down with Freight, right? We talked about this a lot for this one episode and I talked to several others. And yeah, again, I come away and I'm not sure what to think. But again, I'm not closing the book on anything at this point. See, the way I looked at it is if these were unique expeditions from another planet, like, or whatever it is that comes here, some alien spacecraft, all they'd have to do is come here once or twice. Get fed up. Well, not even that, but I used to have a bit about how Earth is the Tijuana of outer space. They only come down here when they're fucked up and they want to see a show. That's why they don't stay. They just come down there. Well, what the fuck? Like, no one's doing any science expeditions to Tijuana. I'm not going back there. No way. Not unless I'm drunk again. Yeah. Well, I was just thinking that if they were going to come down here and examine us, I mean, they could just do it a couple of times and people have these stories and everybody else dismisses it like, where are they? Where are they? I don't see any aliens. Because you really wouldn't. And you probably don't. If they're capable of moving at the speed that Freight were described, where it was just impossible to track with the human eye. They're not going to view us as a threat. No. Yeah. They're not going to. I don't know. Then I can look at us and say, we want to steal their technology. It's the most fascinating thing to me. At all the weird what ifs and who could do this and how could that be true? The alien one is the most fascinating. Because if that was real and if we somehow or another one day get some undeniable proof, like the the Fraver film, the film footage, the gunner footage, the radar footage, that's pretty goddamn compelling. But man, if there was something like that off the charts.