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Terence Crawford is a retired boxer, three-division undisputed champion who retired 42–0. www.youtube.com/@TBudCrawfordOfficial www.tbudcrawford.com
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Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
Alright, Champ is here.
Last time I saw you, I think it was before the Maduro fight, wasn't it?
Wasn't it before that fight?
Yeah, I believe so.
It was before that fight, and that was just around the time you were talking
about fighting
Canelo, and everybody was like, that's crazy.
He's going to go up all the way to 168, two more weight classes above that.
That's nuts.
Everybody's got to shut the fuck up now.
Yeah, yeah.
You know when I say, skills pay the bills.
They do.
They do.
Skills are everything, man.
But the thing is, it's like, it's interesting.
I watched both the Canelo fight and the Maduro fight again recently, and Maduro
looked bigger.
He looked bigger than Canelo.
It was really interesting.
He was a big dude.
He's a big dude.
I wonder what that guy walks around at, because it's not 154.
No, not at all.
He's a big guy.
He fought at 160 his last fight.
Did he?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Really an outstanding performance against Canelo.
It was, like I was telling you before, it was a great I told you so fight for
me, because there
were so many of my friends that are big boxing fans that just thought Canelo
was too big.
They thought it was too much of a jump.
He's too experienced.
Well, you got it?
I mean, you made it look, I want to say easy.
It wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitive.
You know, it was such a clear victory.
It was, at one point when you were pity patting him and then firing off hard
shots, I was like,
oh my goodness, he's feeling it.
Yeah, I was in my element.
I was in the zone, mainly because a lot of people was doubting me as well, you
know, telling me I was going to get knocked out.
I was too small and I was just fighting for the money when I knew what I was
capable of.
So I was just like, I'm going to show y'all what I'm really about, because this
is not the first time that I didn't heard that, oh, he can't do this.
He can't do that.
I think your situation is very similar to when Roy Jones was in his prime,
because when Roy Jones was in his prime, everybody was saying Roy Jones, other
than James Toney, Roy Jones really hadn't fought anybody.
And I was like, no, he's just that much better than everybody else.
He makes it look like they're not good.
If you saw them fight against everybody else, you would say these guys are
awesome.
For sure.
For sure.
And I've been dealing with that my whole career, you know, people getting so
much praise after fighting a guy that I already knocked out, you know, if they
beat him.
Oh, such and such beat this guy.
But me, it's, oh, you're fighting tomato cans or you're fighting bones and
things like this.
So I was just like.
It was just because you're doing it so well.
That's what it is.
It's just people.
They try to find flaws in every great performance.
And the flaws, the only flaws they could find is, yeah, but who are these guys
that he beat?
But you beat great guys.
Champions.
Yeah.
I mean, listen, one of the more interesting fights to me was the Benavidez
fight.
I rewatched that again recently, too.
That was a good fight.
Especially that, whew, because there's so much tension.
There's so much shit talking and tension and so many emotions.
And he can fight.
He can fight.
You know, a lot of people, they looking at his injury and he fought no
different from before or after the injury.
He fought the same, you know.
So that's another thing that they're going to say, oh, well, he had got shot in
a leg.
And if he didn't, then this would have happened or that would have happened.
I'm like, he fought the same.
Like, if you know boxing and you see him box, nothing changed from his boxing
standpoint.
He wasn't a mover.
He wasn't this guy that used his legs as a defense or offense.
So I just take it as a grain of salt and laugh at him.
Yeah, I'm sure that injury sucked, but he fought the same.
And he fought well.
I mean, he's a tough guy.
He fought really well.
Took me 12 rounds.
Yeah, listen, and that right uppercut in that 12th round that put him down, I
was like, oh, my goodness.
I remember watching that fight live.
I was like, oh, there it is.
There it is.
You found him.
Yeah, he had good head movement, you know.
Tough guy.
He was ducking them hooks and them straight punches.
So I was just like, all right, I got to switch it up.
Well, also, he believed in himself.
For sure, definitely.
He came into that fight to win.
Oh, definitely, most definitely.
Yeah, it's beautiful to watch you get what you deserve because I felt like, man,
if you retired after this fence fight, I don't think people that are casuals
would really appreciate your skill set.
Yeah.
You know, the people inside boxing, the people that really know boxing did, but
I felt like too many of the casuals just talk so much shit.
And so the Canelo fight was the cherry on top of the sundae.
Yeah, it was.
And even now, a lot of people saying, oh, well, Canelo's washed.
He's old.
And I'm like, well, I'm older than him.
Like, what are we talking about?
You know, so I just love it, you know, because it just shows what level I'm on,
you know, for everybody to already know what happened.
And then they try to take what happened and make it a reason why it happened.
Right.
So I just be like, man, it's cool.
That's boxing, though.
Right.
That's sports in general.
You're always going to have that.
There's always going to be a bunch of sideline people that talk a lot of shit,
but, you know, for a lot of fighters, it's later in their career, especially
when they're avoided or they have difficulty signing big fights.
It's later in their career that people really appreciate them.
Like, think about Bernard.
It wasn't until Bernard Hopkins beat Felix Trinidad that people were like, oh,
shit.
Like, I think he was like 37 or 36 when he fought Trinidad.
And a lot of people were saying he's washed up.
It's over.
And when he knocked out Trinidad, everybody was like, oh, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've been calling out everybody since the beginning, you know, they created a
whole side of the street because of me, you know, and I'm with a different
promoter.
It was always something, you know, and everybody always blamed me.
But now look at everybody now.
All the promoters working together now.
Why couldn't they work together when it was my turn to shine?
But it is what it is, and life happened, and I'm happy the way it happened
because I did it my way, and I don't think too many other fighters can say that.
That's true.
Yeah.
It's a dirty business, you know, the business of promoters and keeping guys
away from guys.
And making sure that their fighter, you know, avoids hurting fighters.
It's always been that way, you know, and it's unfortunate for the fans because
there's so many.
Like, the big one for a long time was David Benavidez and Canelo.
Like, everybody wants to see that fight, and they just can't figure out a way
to make it happen.
And you've got to think someone's avoiding somebody, and it's not Benavidez.
No, not at all.
You know, I just think Canelo, in a sense, he knows how big Benavidez is going
to come in the ring.
You know, Benavidez is a great fighter, you know, but he's a big fighter.
He's a tall fighter, you know, and I just think Canelo knows, like, why would I
want to get in the ring with this guy that's going to be massive come fight
time?
And I'm not that big of a guy at all.
I've been doing all this with my skills because Canelo's not a big guy.
He's been fighting big guys his whole career.
Yeah.
You know, and beating them with skill, you know, so you've got to tip your hat
off to Canelo and what he's accomplished.
Absolutely.
Being 5'7", going up to 175 and fighting these big guys and actually winning.
Knocked out Kovalev.
Yeah.
I mean, it was Kovalev later in his career, but he's still Kovalev.
For sure.
And then having the courage to fight Bival in his prime.
For sure.
I think that's the fight that probably kept us from getting the Benavidez fight,
the Bival fight.
Because I think after that fight, he's like, okay.
Yeah, this dude is big.
This is a little big.
Yeah.
Because Bival, not just big, but he's got that Russian style, light on the feet,
in and out, in and out, in and out.
To a boxer.
It's a difficult style to handle, you know, and like the only guy to beat
Betterbeev was another beast.
Yeah, so.
I think, you know, him knowing that.
And then I think the disrespect that he got from Benavidez had persuaded him to
go elsewhere.
But, you know, there's been many boxers from the past that didn't fight people
that they wanted to fight.
Right.
You know, look at Sugar Ray Leonard and Aaron Pryor.
They never got that fight.
Mm-hmm.
So, and that's just one of many.
So, it's going to be like that.
Well, it always seems at the end that it all worked out the way it was supposed
to, you know, and that's how it felt like for me after your Canelo victory.
Like, this is, this is like, you know, all the bullshit, it's like now
everybody has to shut the fuck up.
It's like all the bullshit's gone.
It's like now everybody's got to give you your just due because that was a
stellar championship performance.
I mean, that was one of the all-time great performances because it was a Canelo
that's, you know, you could say whatever you want.
I think he's still in his prime.
And you just outboxed him.
And you outboxed him.
I mean, think about it.
40 to 47, 54, all the way up to 68, and you outboxed.
Oh, that's right.
35 first, right?
That's right.
That's crazy.
That's crazy going up from 35 to 68 and outboxing the champ.
And the way you did it, too.
It was so skillful.
It was so beautiful to watch, man.
When you're a fan of skillful, intelligent boxing, that was such a good fight
to watch.
Because, you know, Canelo's a dangerous guy.
He's a heavy puncher.
And he puts a lot of power into his punches.
He's kind of changed over the years and really relied more on his power.
But, man, he knows how to land it.
And when he lands it, he puts people in a lot of trouble.
And, whew, he just – there was this one move that you were doing where you
were throwing a left hand and then a quick hook behind it before you even
brought the hand back.
So, he was going a counter and you were throwing a quick hook.
I was like, oh, that is so pretty.
That is so pretty.
Trying to catch him in a counter.
You know, Canelo is a great counter puncher.
You know, so you got to beat him to it.
You got to counter to counter at times.
Did that fight play out the way you thought it was going to play out?
Yeah, most definitely.
Exactly the way you thought it.
Most definitely.
We knew what we was up against.
You know, when I went to his fight against Berlanga and against –
the guy that's on his team, I forgot his name, Munguia, Munguia.
When I was with Turkey, I said, Turkey, he can't beat me.
Just watching him from 135 to now, like, live, looking at him, I'm just like, I
can beat this dude.
Like, my confidence is getting more and more and more.
And his last fight in Saudi Arabia, I was like, yeah, he can't fight like that
against me.
Which he didn't.
Which he definitely rose his game.
But I just believed in myself that much that nothing was going to stop me from
getting that victory that night.
The fight in Saudi Arabia, he looked, like, under-motivated.
Yeah.
Like, it wasn't a big enough challenge for him.
He didn't look like he was in the same kind of shape physically, like, when you
look at him.
He wasn't, you know.
And it happens, you know.
That's why I always train, like, this is the toughest fight of my career.
Because it is.
Every fight is.
And you never know what to expect with those type of fighters that nobody know
about.
Right.
Right, right, right, right.
Them be the ones that sneak up on you and, you know, you got to be ready for
him.
But he didn't come to fight.
He moved the whole fight.
And, you know, Canelo was frustrated.
And he was just like, ah, man, this dude didn't come to do anything.
Right.
He came to survive.
Yeah, so I could see where he was frustrated at.
Yeah.
Well, he probably thought he didn't belong in there with Canelo either, right?
Right.
You know, so he probably said, listen, if I just keep moving, I can get out of
here with my dignity intact and just never get hit real good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's fascinating now because before that fight, you were looked at as one of
the best boxers today.
Now you're looked at as one of the best fighters ever.
And it's interesting how that changes, how people now look at your body.
And then they look at Errol Spence before you fought him and go, Errol Spence
can fight, man.
He's a really good fighter.
And a lot of people discredited your victory over him because of that car
accident that he had.
And maybe he wasn't as good as we thought.
But now with the Canelo victory, you're in this rare air of, you know,
mentioned as one of the greatest of all time.
Yeah.
You know, there's a handful of guys.
There is no, it's very difficult to say the greatest of all time because people
want to go all the way back to Sugar Ray Robinson.
They, you know, they throw Floyd in the mix, prime time Roy Jones.
There's all these different fighters they put as the greatest of all time.
But you are now in that conversation.
That's got to be nice.
It is beautiful, you know, especially all the hard work that I didn't put in to
be here at that pinnacle of the sport.
You know, since I was seven years old, I've been boxing.
I've been fighting.
I've been a fighter since day one.
So when people compare me to, like, Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Mayweather and
Sugar Ray Leonard comparing me to who will win, who will win,
that just let me know that I did my job well in the sport.
Oh, you absolutely did.
Now, are you definitely done done?
It's over with.
It's definitely over?
Yeah.
I don't got nothing.
So I told a couple of my close friends, I said, okay, since 2014, I've been
fighting for something, a title.
I won my first title in 2014, March of 2014.
Ever since then, I've been fighting for titles, undisputed titles, undisputed,
undisputed titles, undisputed.
Like, just everything that I've been fighting for.
Now, and I just come back, and it's just like, all right, what's the motivation?
Just money?
You know?
Like, all right, so what is on top of that?
You know, because my thing was, the money going to come.
No, I was taking pay cuts after pay cuts after pay cuts because I knew what I
wanted my legacy to be when I finished boxing.
I wanted to be remembered as one of the greatest champions of all time, you
know?
And I think I did that, you know?
So now it's like, this last fight that I had, the height of it, there's no
better finish than that, to me.
What was on the line, coming from where I came from, all the odds that were
stacked against me, all the things that I had to go through and camp to get to
that fight.
You know, it was just like, man, you did everything right.
So what can top that?
I love that.
I love when fighters go out on top like that.
And for a fighter to go out like you have with all your championship experience,
all the weight classes you competed in, undefeated, and beat Canelo, another
all-time great.
I mean, that is a perfect finale for a spectacular career.
It's pretty dope.
For sure.
And go out with your faculties intact, your health intact, plenty of money.
It's nice.
It's beautiful because nobody knows what us fighters adore to get to the point
to entertain the fans.
You know, we go through a lot.
You know, we put our body through a lot.
And then when it's all said and done, when our body broke down to the point
where we can't take care of ourselves, they don't care about us.
They're going to say, oh, well, he was once a good champion.
We go to the fights.
You see a lot of old fighters showing up to the fights, and people just walk
past them.
Yeah.
You know, they're on to the next.
Oh, let's see the young fighter, you know.
And it's like they use you up until you have nothing left.
Then they forget about you.
Yeah.
You know, so it's very critical for these fighters to think about their health
first because once it's over with, it's over with.
And you can't get your health back.
Right.
You can always get money elsewhere.
But once you can't, your mind is messed up.
Yeah.
It's over with.
That's such a good lesson for young fighters to see, too.
To see a guy like yourself be fully dedicated, so disciplined, get through the
whole thing, get out, on top, and done.
Yeah.
And so many fighters have said that, and then a couple years go by, their
identity is wrapped up in fighting.
They go, man, I think I got one more in me, and then, you know, maybe they're
buying a lot of shit.
That's the real problem.
Yeah.
The real.
It's always going to be that, you know, I got another one in me.
I got another one in me.
Because they miss that high of all the fans chanting their name and everybody,
you know, cameras, lights, and, you know, they miss it, you know.
But I was always that type of person.
I didn't care about all that.
Really?
Yeah, I can have the lights.
Just pay me, and I can go under the rock somewhere, you know, take care of my
family, you know.
I never was a guy that wanted to be all up in the media and wanted to be the
center of attention.
How come?
Because that's just me.
I already knew what I was doing it for.
I never was doing it to be famous.
You know, I don't walk around with a whole entourage to get noticed, you know.
I'll be under the radar.
I do like that.
You show up by yourself.
But one time you showed up at one of the UFCs, and someone said you were Kendrick
Lamar, and they put it on the fucking screen.
And I didn't catch it, because I was doing the broadcast, but I was like, are
you guys out of your fucking...
You don't know who Terrence Crawford is, and you're in combat sports?
This is crazy.
I think they did that on purpose.
No.
No way.
No way.
They had to.
No, no, no, no, no.
It was just some moron in the truck.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, 100%.
They did not do that on purpose.
No one in the UFC would ever disrespect you like that.
No one would disrespect you like that.
No chance.
Yeah, I was sitting next to everybody, and I was like,
Did they really just do that?
No, they did not do that on purpose.
That was just some dumbass that thought that you were Kendrick Lamar for some
reason.
Yeah.
It was so stupid.
And then I think they corrected it later in the broadcast.
I don't know who it was.
Right.
I didn't even want to know.
I'd yell at them.
For sure.
For sure.
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But that's, you roll very low key.
Like, you don't show up with an entourage.
You know?
A lot of times you're just by yourself.
Yeah.
You know?
And that's unusual for a guy who's achieved as much as you've achieved.
Yeah, people would be so, like, surprised that, you know, they'll see me in the
airport.
They'd be like, you by yourself?
Oh, yeah.
Like, man, this is crazy.
I would always imagine you with security guards, big entourage.
Right.
Nah, man.
That's just a bill.
Yeah.
You know, you got to pay all them people to be around you.
That's true, too.
So, you know, I'd be chillin'.
Yeah, I mean, every time you've showed up at the studio, you show up by
yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's another good example for young fighters to realize, like, at the
end of the day,
what are you really doing it for?
All that other bullshit, all the attention and stuff, that's...
It's very temporary.
It's very fleeting.
It goes away.
Legacy.
Legacy and the glory of your accomplishments, that stays forever.
And the respect of people in boxing that really know.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, that's what it's all about.
And you've got that.
Now, everybody has to shut the fuck up.
Yeah, they do.
Everybody has to shut the fuck up.
Even the people that said that, oh, Canelo's...
Stop.
You were the same people saying Canelo was going to stop him.
You're the same people that saying Errol Spence was going to stop me.
Same people that saying Majimov was going to stop me.
Yep.
And so forth.
So, it just got to the point where they just, they can't, they got to accept it
now.
It's like, man, I've been hating on this dude for so long, you know, and he's
just been proving
me wrong time after time.
It's like, let me just give him his flowers.
Yes.
You know?
That's beautiful.
And for young fighters, it's such a good thing to watch.
It's so good for young fighters to have an inspirational figure, to have
someone who really does it,
and does it perfectly, and does it in a way that is very unusual, because like,
you're
one of the best switch hitters since Marvin Hagler, if not the best, you know?
And like that, God, that is such an underrated skill.
It was so funny.
One of the times you were in here, you were telling me that his coach, your
coach told you
to stop doing that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he was like, you need to focus on fighting orthodox the right way, instead
of switching
to southpaw.
I was just like, all right, switch southpaw again.
And it was just like, he was like, all right, well, you're going to do that, we're
going to
train like that.
I was like, all right, let's train like it, because I'm going to keep switching,
because
it just came so natural.
Yeah.
I'll be in there, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then I'll just, I'll just
switch
like, unthinkingly.
Bah, bah, bah.
Yes.
Man, you know, it was just, I win.
I win, and he was like, all right, we're going to fight like, we're going to
train like
that.
Well, it's such an underrated aspect of boxing if you can do it, because you
have to recalibrate
where everything is coming from every time you switch.
different angles, all that.
In MMA, it's become commonplace.
In the beginning of MMA, it was a lot of people would stand one way or the
other.
And now, a large percentage of these young guys coming up are constantly
switching, because
it hides combinations, it hides different techniques.
There's so many different things you could do in MMA off of switch, because you're
switching
and kicking, you're switching and punching, you're kicking, and then now you're
in southpaw,
and you're throwing left hands instead of right hands.
It's like, things are, there's so much overload of the mind where you have to
calculate all
these different things.
And if you don't spar on a regular basis with a very crafty guy who switches a
lot, it could
fuck you up inside the cage.
Yeah, because some people, they have better chances on one side than the other.
You know, and then when you switch on them, it's just like, oh, I hate fighting
southpaws.
Right.
You know, and just do something to their brain, you know, because they might be
slower moving
one way than the other way.
Well, everything looks so weird when all of a sudden the jab's on the right
side and
the left, and then your brain has to, like...
You gotta worry about the hook now instead of the straight.
Yeah, everything's different.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just, I mean, I wonder how many young fighters are going to see your
example and
start training that very early in their career now.
Because I think it's...
The conventional wisdom was that you have one stance, whether it's southpaw or
orthodox,
stick with that.
There's a few outliers like Hagler, but for the most part, stick with that.
But I don't think that's the way to go.
I think, I mean, I think great fighters have stayed in one stance.
But I think the way to go is having the ability to switch up.
Yeah, it's always, you know, beneficial if you can have it and not need it,
then they
need it and they ain't got it.
Yes.
You know, like, okay, it's cool that I don't need it for this fight, but I got
it in my bag
just in case I have it.
Yes.
You know, and that's like me.
I got it all.
Yeah.
Do you think you got to train people when you're done?
I'll be training a little bit.
I'll be helping out at the gym, but my patience ain't there yet.
Yeah.
Like, I get frustrated and I have to remember, like my coach, Bomek, say,
everybody's not
you, bud.
Yeah.
Everybody don't adapt like you.
Everybody not as athletic like you, you know, so you can't be frustrated if
they're not
getting something.
Right.
Like, as fast as you get.
And you've been doing this since you was seven.
Some of these kids that started when they was teenagers, you know, so you got
to give them
grace, you know, and take your time with them.
And some of them, you know, they flat-footed and you just got to train them
into their style.
Everybody not going to have your style.
So when he explained that to me, I was just like, yeah, you're right.
You know, let me back up a little bit and just tell them what I see.
Yeah.
You know, more so than trying to coach them into being this fighter that I want
them to
be.
Being a version of you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's got to be difficult, right?
Because everybody does have a different style.
Yeah.
And, you know, you're never going to convince some fighters to fight your way.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But the wisdom that you can bestow on young fighters, it's like, there's a lot
of great
fighters like, you know, Freddie Roach that had some boxing matches, but was
never like
an elite boxer, but still was a great coach.
And, but to have an elite fighter, to be a coach, it's like, there's an element
of that.
First of all, you, is it, there's an element from the young guy coming up, like
you want
to impress.
You got Terrence Crawford in your corner.
Yeah.
You want to impress him.
Buddy McGurk did a fantastic job and he became a great trainer.
There's a bunch of fighters that have done it, but it's like, I always wonder
because I feel
like there's so much you have to offer to these young guys.
There's so much small, minutiae, intimate details of what you're thinking and
what's going
on that would completely change the way a young fighter sees certain exchanges.
Yeah, for sure.
And I try to help them on that aspect when they in the ring or when they on the
back or
when they hitting the mitts, shadow boxing, just little details.
You know, I come in the gym and you see the little kids, they see me and they
look to the
corner and they hit the back.
Yeah, they get fired up.
You can see they trying to get my attention.
I come over there and give them some little wisdom, you know, and they're
appreciative.
But it's good that they see me in the gym all the time.
You know, my son wrestling next door and they over here boxing and I'm both one
side and
the other side.
Your son just won a wrestling title.
Yeah, he just won a state as a freshman.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
That's so amazing.
Does, what does he want to do?
He want to go D1.
He want to.
Yeah.
He told me that Saturday after the tournament, we on our way to the Ryan Garcia
fight.
He said, dad, I want to go to Olympics.
Wow.
I said, you want to?
I said, what kind of mind state is that?
I said, you're going to go.
I said, you got to have it in your mind.
You're going.
You can't say you want to go.
You got to say, I'm going to the Olympics.
That way, you know, you're already programming it.
You know, for the future.
How did you learn that mentality?
Man, been doubted my whole life.
You know, been doubted my whole life.
And my coach, Midge Minor, used to always say, la-di-da-di, we fight anybody.
They ain't fought you yet.
You know, and I just carried that on my shoulders.
Like, anybody you put in front of me, they ain't fought me yet.
So you can't tell me they can beat me until they beat me.
So just like my son, like, hey, you got to have that confidence that whatever
you say you want to do, you're going to go out and do it.
But you got to put the work there first.
So in that sense, doubters give you fuel.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
It's a lot of people like that.
A lot of people like that.
They live off the haters.
They fuel me up.
And then especially when it's crazy because, like, Majimov and Canelo, they
were so respectful, you know, and I respect them.
You know, I've been a fan of Majimov, you know, coming from Uzbekistan and
learning about him and hearing about him.
And I've always been a fan of Canelo, like, since I can remember, you know.
So I didn't have that, like, killer, like, mind, like, heart in my heart.
Like, I wanted to beat him.
But, like, my other fights, I was like, man, I want to knock this dude out.
Like Benavidez.
Yeah.
I wanted to knock him out.
Like, so, like, even in training, like, I didn't have that rage.
Like, this dude talking shit.
Like, he never, they never got under my skin.
It was, like, all respectful.
So it was like, all right, I want to whoop their ass, but I didn't want to,
like, inflict, like, pain.
Like, I want to, like, knock him out.
There was one fighter you fought at 140.
His name is escaping me.
But you stopped him in the fifth.
Yes.
Yeah, I wanted to knock him out.
Oh, boy.
Yeah.
And I was so mad.
Like, when you watch that fight, you know, I miss, like, when they stopped it,
I missed, like, two crazy hooks.
And I just was like, man, why couldn't I land him?
Like, he would have went to sleep.
Like, that's how I was saying.
You weren't happy with just stopping him.
Yeah, I wanted to put him to sleep.
But, you know, it's a sport, and it is what it is.
And I'm happy that we all could go home to our family and talk about it, you
know, years down the line.
Yeah.
Well, that is the danger of the sport.
That's why it's so different than every other sport.
It's like you're legitimately putting your life on the line.
Yeah.
And a lot of people don't understand that until something happens.
Right.
You know, us boxers, a lot of boxers have died in that ring.
A lot of boxers have went in the ring one way and left it a different way.
Yes.
You know, so when a lot of fans, they criticize boxers for doing what the sport
is for, and that's boxing, you know, us boxers, like, you're not even here
getting your brains beat out.
So what you consider boring, we consider us doing what the sport is meant to do,
is box.
Right.
You know, and I think a lot of fans don't give a lot of fighters they just do
for boxing, you know, like Floyd, like Shakur, you know, when they pure boxers.
Yes.
You know, they want to see people bleeding, battered, knocked out, you know,
but they're not thinking about the aftermath and the ather effects of them
fighters going to the hospital, blood on the brains, pissing blood and things
like that.
Like, your body is not meant to be beat on like that.
Right.
You know, so they just looking at, oh, well, I'll pay this money.
Y'all going to go in there and kill each other, you know, and I think that's
wrong.
Yeah.
Well, you're always going to have morons in this world.
You're always going to have casuals.
You're always going to have people that don't appreciate what they're saying.
But, like, when I see a performance like Shakur versus Tiafemo that last fight,
like, that was art.
That was art.
That sneaky jab where it was like half speed and then popping him with the jab
and you could see Lopez just couldn't get out of the way of it.
He didn't know what to do.
It was beautiful.
It barely got hit.
Yeah.
It was beautiful.
And things like that, you know, you see two high caliber fighters,
but you just see one just on a different level because of his boxing IQ, you
know,
not because Tiafemo didn't belong in the ring with him.
It's just that Shakur IQ and his boxing ability is up here.
Yes.
You know, he didn't have to sit in front of him and trade shots and give Tiafemo
the opportunity to land a good shot
and change the outcome of the fight.
One shot, I don't care who you is, in the right spot, at the right moment,
anybody can get knocked out.
Without a doubt.
Yeah, without a doubt.
I mean, the human brain is not designed to get punched.
Right.
It's just not designed that way, especially big punchers.
And when you see a guy like Tiafemo, Tiafemo can crack.
He's a big dude and he's a world champion.
And it was one of the most lopsided performances ever where you see one world
champion challenging another world champion.
For sure.
I mean, it was art.
To me, every moment of that fight, like up until the 12th round, I was just
like, there was multiple times.
I was like, oh, oh, my God.
It was just beautiful.
It was just, I love watching a guy at the pinnacle.
You know, watching a guy where everybody else has got to go, wow.
I didn't think it was going to go like this.
Because, you know, Tiafemo's a super aggressive guy.
Beat Lomachenko.
He's got a nasty jab.
Throws big power in his punches.
He's tough as hell.
You know, a lot of people are like, this is going to be a tough fight.
And Shakur just, and he didn't run.
He's still right in front of him.
That's the other thing.
He wasn't getting hit.
He was right in front of him.
I mean, that was art.
That was art.
That's boxing at the highest level.
And I'm fascinated because now they're talking about him and Ryan Garcia.
I am fascinated to watch that fight.
Because that's a, Shakur's a different animal.
Ryan looked amazing in that fight.
I mean, he looked amazing.
I mean, he looked so fast.
And it was a beautiful fight to watch.
But that's an interesting fight.
I like that fight.
Shakur and him, I like that fight a lot.
Because Shakur's just a different animal.
You're dealing with a whole different kind of skill set.
Yeah, Shakur.
Listen, I went down to camp before he fought Tiafemo.
And I seen his focus and the level of intense training he was doing.
And I said, I don't know it all, but I know Shakur are going to whoop Tiafemo's
ass.
I tweeted that way before the fight.
You know, and he went out there and did it.
Ryan looked spectacular in his fight for what it was.
I don't think Barrios came to fight.
You know, Ryan was boxing great.
You know, the jab was working.
The overhand right was working.
And he looks out at me at the end and said, you see my jab?
I said, man, it was working.
That jab was beautiful because we're not used to seeing Ryan jab.
Right.
You know.
Or his right hand.
Or boxing, for that matter.
Mm-hmm.
You know, he was boxing beautiful.
Beautiful.
You know, and I commend him on that.
Like, he aced it, you know.
But when it comes to Shakur, Shakur is not a Barrios.
You know, Shakur got a jab.
Shakur got head movement.
Shakur got defense.
Shakur knows range.
Shakur have good legs.
So, I look at that fight like, it's not going to be as a competitive fight like
everybody
would think because if Ryan get careless, he's going to get countered all day.
If he gets careless.
I think he'll fight very different than he fought with Barrios.
He's got to.
Barrios just couldn't keep up with the speed.
I mean, Ryan's speed is extraordinary.
He relies on it a lot.
But, I mean, that's not a knock.
That's just like, if you had it, everybody should rely on that.
I mean, that's speed is nuts.
Shakur's not slow.
Shakur's a different animal.
That's what I'm saying.
It's a different animal.
Well, a lot of people thought Devin Haney was different, though, right?
A lot of people thought Devin Haney was going to give him real problems.
When he dropped Devin early with a left hook, everybody was like, oh, this is
different.
I wish he didn't have a positive drug test in that fight because that fucking tainted
everything.
They know each other far too well.
I think him and Devin fought each other the most, out of all of them.
You know, Shakur and Ryan fought as well, which Shakur won all the times that
they fought.
But I just think, you know, him and Devin, the history of it, Devin came in
there overconfident.
Ryan, you know, being juiced up, you know, at a low, whatever it is.
But, you know, you can't take away from him landing the punches that he was
landing.
You can't take away from the performance that, you know, he was doing.
But when you want steroids, that add too.
It definitely adds something.
What did he get popped for?
Do you remember?
I don't even know.
Jamie, find out what he got popped for.
It was a very low level of whatever he got popped for.
And a lot of people say, oh, the levels, it doesn't, it wouldn't even matter.
It's such a small level.
The problem is there's a lot of ways you can mask the amount of steroids you
have in your system.
And that's one of the reasons why the UFC banned IVs.
Because you can flush your body out if you super hydrate with IVs.
I don't know what you're supposed to put in the IV, but there's some nutrients
that you can put in IVs
that will mask any traces of performance-enhancing drugs, which is why at UFC,
you have to hydrate.
This is drug-free sports policy and USADA's policy.
You have to hydrate only with drinking liquids.
You can't hydrate with an IV.
And when you use an IV, which I don't know, were they allowed to use IVs to rehydrate?
I don't know.
When you use IVs to rehydrate, you can mask a lot of shit.
So if he did use an IV to rehydrate and he only showed a trace amount, that's
still, what did he test positive for?
Lost, which fighter you're talking about?
Ryan Garcia.
Ryan Garcia, when he fought Devin Haney, the fight got overturned, right?
It was a no contest, which is very unfortunate because it was a clear victory,
one of his best victories ever.
Dropped Devin, had him in trouble a bunch of times.
Dropped him how many times?
A few.
Yeah, a few times.
He looked fucking great in that fight.
Yeah, he did.
And I think, unfortunately, you know, that positive drug test, just...
Osterene?
Osterene, yeah.
Okay.
I think, you know, both of those fights is great fights for Ryan.
Ryan is in a great position right now.
Oh, yeah.
You know, he got the Roley unification fight.
You know, he lost to Roley.
Right.
He got that fight that he can, you know, try to avenge.
In a unification fight.
Roley looked great in that fight.
He got Devin.
Yeah.
In a unification fight.
He got Shakur.
Mm-hmm.
In a spectacular fight.
So, Ryan's in a great position right now.
If Javante comes back, he's got that rematch.
I don't think Javante is going to fight him without having those type of claws.
The rehydration claws?
Yeah.
Bring him down.
And you got to do this and you got to do that.
That's crazy.
Those clauses are crazy.
You can't weigh more than X when you get into the ring.
Fuck off with that.
That's like with me and Canelo.
I'm like, man, listen, I'm challenging you.
Yeah.
You can weigh whatever you want.
I don't want no excuses.
You know, hey, it is what it is.
When I, all you got to do is weigh 168.
Yeah.
You know, and then after that, it is what it is.
Well, that's the same shit that Floyd made Canelo do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's where they got it from.
Yeah.
That's where they got it from.
You know what I mean?
The thing is, these guys see that big number.
They see those purses and they go, oh, I can fight good.
Yeah.
I'll just get, I'll just get a little smaller beforehand.
It's just not smart.
Yeah.
Your body's not going to react when it's not fully hydrated.
No.
Not chance.
It's the worst way to fight.
Yeah.
You know, I think guys who cut a tremendous amount of weight, they do
themselves a terrible
disservice.
They really do.
I think it's terrible for your body.
What's the most you ever had to cut?
The most I ever had to cut for probably like 25.
Woo.
That's a lot.
What weight was that?
35 or 40?
47.
47.
Really?
Yeah.
Wow.
My last fight was Spence.
And when did you start your cut?
Woo.
Months.
Months out.
Yeah.
Months out.
So the week of the fight, what were you at?
Probably like 152, 154.
Oh, okay.
That's very good.
That's very reasonable.
See, MMA fighters do it in a fucked up way.
Them last couple of pounds is tough.
Yeah.
Them last couple of pounds are tough.
And I just knew that it was over with.
I knew it was over with.
You know?
But the hardest cut ever was when I was at 135.
That was like killing me.
What were you walking around at back then?
Probably like in the 50s.
Mmm.
Like 55.
And so would you just lower your calories in camp?
In camp?
Everything.
I got to change my whole diet.
And then the week of the fight, what did you weigh when you were fighting 35?
I don't even remember.
Man, I was cutting like probably like seven pounds the week of the fight.
See, that in the MMA world, that's nothing.
These guys are cutting crazy pounds.
Because they wait until the last minute.
Yeah.
I know a lot of MMA fighters.
Yeah.
They just dehydrate themselves.
They wait until the last minute.
But mine, I got to start gradually because I never want to go in there and just
like tank.
Right.
So I got to change my eating habits up months, like two months in advance.
That way I can get my body used to being lighter and, you know, performing at
that weight class.
Because if not, you know, you're doing more hurting yourself than good because
you're taking all the fluid out of your brain.
Exactly.
You know, and yeah, I couldn't be at no disadvantage like that.
And it makes you more vulnerable to getting knocked out.
Yeah.
Definitely.
I mean, Alex Pereira was the craziest example in the UFC.
He was fighting at 185 and he would weigh 225 when he fought, which is bananas.
I mean, that's 40 fucking pounds.
I think that's why I got, when I fought Gamboa, when I got hurt.
You know, in the ninth round.
But I stopped him in the ninth round.
But that was part of that.
Boom.
Caught me with a clean shot.
Boom.
I was like, oh shit.
You know, until this day, that's the only fight that I got hurt like that ever.
You know, a lot of people thought Mean Machine dropped me, Mean Machine hurt me.
I didn't got, Mean Machine hit me with some hard shots, some clean hard shots.
But nothing was like that, Gamboa.
Like my whole leg locked up.
And I was just like, man, I got to grab this dude, you know.
And you think the weight cut had a lot to do with that?
Yeah.
Definitely.
What weight was that at?
135.
Yeah, 135.
You're a big guy, man.
Yeah.
That's a lot of weight to cut.
Yeah.
That's the most problematic part of MMA for sure.
I was actually just having a conversation with Hunter Campbell about that.
They're trying to devise strategies to discourage these big weight cuts and
trying to figure out what to do.
It was crazy though because I've always been skinny.
You know, a lot of people, they say, oh, he's a weight bully.
He's this, he's that.
And it's like, bro, I came from 132.
I wasn't at, you know, you see a lot of these fighters, they in the amateurs,
they, like Sean Porter, he was at 165.
Then he went to 147.
You know, a lot of people, they was heavier and then they dropped weight.
I was at 132 and I moved up to go at 135, you know, as a professional.
And I was cool with the weight.
Then I just started filling out once I start, you know, working out more and
doing a little strength and condition.
And I just started, my body started filling out.
So I kept moving up.
But the weight that I was at with Canelo, that's the most comfortable is time
of my career to be able to eat whatever I want, not focus on weight.
Did you feel much better in the ring because of that?
I did.
I did because that was the only time that I never, like I had to eat to keep my
weight on.
Wow.
And it's like, I'm not used to doing that.
I'm used to, you know, we got portions.
It's like, they feed me big meals.
I'm like, I can't eat all this, you know.
But so that was the one camp that it was like the weight wasn't an issue.
Do you have a nutritionist in camp?
Yes.
And so how do they do your meals?
Is it all based on X amount of protein, X amount of carbs, it's all weighed out?
All that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then they weigh you, check you, make your body fat.
They ask me what I weigh in the morning, every morning.
What did you weigh like when you got into the ring?
I think I was like 72.
Okay.
It's just a few pounds.
Yeah.
Nothing.
I didn't weigh, I didn't weigh, I probably was a couple of pounds.
Yeah.
The only difference in MMA is obviously the grappling, you know, and that's, it
plays a big advantage
if you can get a lot of weight on a guy.
That's, that's why a lot of guys do it.
It's also, MMA is very flawed.
And one of the most flawed aspects of it is the weight classes.
There's just not enough weight classes.
There's giant leaps, like between 205, the next weight class is heavyweight.
So it's 205 to 265.
185, the next weight class is 205.
That's 20 pounds.
That's nuts.
Yeah.
170 to 185.
15 fucking pounds is a lot.
A lot.
That's a lot.
Seven pounds is a lot.
55 to 70.
Yeah.
Seven pounds is a lot.
A lot of people don't know, but I was way stronger at 47 than I was at 40.
And that's only seven pounds.
Right.
That's seven pounds of muscle that I don't have to cut.
Right.
Yeah.
And a lot of people think, oh, it's just seven pounds or 135 to 140.
It's just five pounds.
Oh, that matters.
Yes.
It matters a lot.
And for fighters, there's a lot of guys that are tweeners.
They're too big for 155.
They can't make the weight.
And then they're too small for 170.
Yes.
Because at 170, you got guys that are never going to make 155.
They're coming down from 210.
And they're getting to 170.
And they're jacked.
I know somebody that was coming out from 230, fighting at 165.
Oh, my God.
Who was that?
I ain't going to say his name.
Well, Anthony Rumble Johnson was the craziest one that I ever saw.
230.
165.
Anthony Rumble Johnson was 230, and he was fighting at 170.
I ran into Rumble once.
Rest in peace.
He died a few years back.
I ran into Rumble once when he was fighting at 170, and he was in between
fights.
And I ran into him at the hotel, and he was a fucking heavyweight.
He was so big.
I couldn't.
I go, what do you weigh?
Yeah.
And he said, 230.
I'm like, dude, that's crazy.
You have to cut 60 pounds?
Yeah.
But it was killing him.
It was killing him.
Like, literally to the brink of death.
The day before a fight.
That's nuts.
That doesn't make any sense.
And they were all doing it, because they all felt like they had to be the
biggest guy in there.
Yeah.
Not smart.
No.
At all.
I think for MMA, they really need to recognize this.
One of the things that's going to stop weight clots is give people more weight
classes.
Give people more options.
This idea of only having eight champions, I think, in MMA is very, very
limiting.
It's also limiting the potential of a guy like you to go up and up and up and
win championship after championship.
In MMA, if you win two belts, that's crazy.
That's the only thing anybody's ever done.
Because the weight classes are so far apart.
Exactly.
It's the only people that have ever done it have done it in two weight classes.
No one's done it in three.
You know, Pereira might try to do it at heavyweight.
He might try to go up to heavyweight now, because he's walking around at like
240, which is crazy, because he used to fight at 185.
It's nuts.
But if they had more options and they had more weight classes, I think we'd
have more competitive fights.
We'd have less extreme weight cutting.
We'd have healthier fighters.
Just more champions is better.
There's a lot of guys that could be champions.
There's not a weight class for them.
If there's a 20-pound gap, 20 pounds is so much.
If I put 20 pounds of bone and muscle on this table and show you what it looks
like, you'd be like, whoa, that's a crazy amount of mass.
And the difference between losing that, gaining that, being in the middle of
that, it's pretty significant.
So for a lot of fighters, their frame doesn't line up perfectly with whatever
the division is.
It just, they don't have a chance.
Yeah.
It sucks.
It does.
It drives me nuts.
It drives me nuts.
I think extreme weight cutting is the worst thing that's ever happened to the
sport of MMA.
Any sport.
Any sport.
But in boxing, it's not as extreme.
No one really does it.
Jerry McClellan used to do it.
He got real big in between fights.
Real big.
He was big.
But that cost him in the Nigel Benn fight.
I think that probably is what led to his bleeding of the brain.
That's probably one of the contributing factors to why he's, you know, he's so
hurt right now.
You know, and that fucked Roy up too because back at the time, that was his
biggest rival was Gerald.
And, you know, Roy was always like, I do not want that ever happening to me.
You know, yeah, like, man, like I say, when you lose that, that weight and you
don't understand you losing that fluid in the back of your brain, you know.
And it takes days for that fluid to fully return to your brain, especially when
you're just drinking the water and not IV rehydrating.
It's tough.
It's tough.
Yeah, it's, uh, but I mean, boxing's been around longer.
They've got it figured out.
And unfortunately, or fortunately, the UFC dominates MMA and they only have
eight weight classes.
So everybody else only has eight weight classes.
California has instituted a bunch of different weight classes, but nobody, the
UFC has a heavyweight limit.
Isn't that crazy?
Isn't that stupid?
It's stupid, right?
It definitely is.
Talk to these people.
I'm just now learning about that.
You didn't know?
No, not at all.
265.
You have to weigh 265.
So think about Tyson Fury.
When Tyson Fury fought Deontay, he was like 280, 285.
Imagine he's got to dehydrate himself.
He's got to lose 20 fucking pounds just to make the weight class.
That's retarded.
That doesn't make any sense at all.
At all.
At all.
It's the heavyweight.
It's the heaviest weight we can go.
Remember Valuyev when he was fighting Evander Holyfield?
It was huge.
God!
He had to be over 300 pounds.
He was a literal giant.
Actual giant.
Yeah.
So, I think that's something you need to talk to Dana about.
Nobody listens to me, bro.
They don't.
They don't listen to me.
They think I'm crazy.
Well, we got to petition it then.
Oh, I have a bunch of wacky rules that I want to institute.
So, I understand why they don't want to listen to me.
I would throw the whole sport up in the air.
I think these combat sports, it got to come from the fighters.
You know, just like boxing, I think if the fighters come together, they can
make anything happen.
The fighters don't understand the level of power that they carry because they
think, oh, since they cutting the check, they got the power.
Right.
You know, but they can't cut the check without us.
You know, but it's the fighters that need the money that makes it hard.
Right.
Because the fighters that already got the money, they can make a stand for
something.
But the fighters that doesn't, they like, well, you can do that.
I got to provide for my family.
You can take a chance of going at the organization for a year or however long
it's going to last.
But who going to pay my bills?
Right.
Who going to put food on my family table while we doing this?
While we making this stand?
Right.
So it's a little tougher for them to make that stand than a person that's
already established.
Yes.
You know, and I think that's where, you know, the seesaw effect happens with
boxing and UFC because there's a lot of things.
Well, UFC is more extreme because it's really just the UFC.
It's really, I mean, even Francis Ngannou, right?
Francis Ngannou, one of the most devastating fighters to ever compete in MMA,
UFC heavyweight champion.
They couldn't get a deal signed and he winds up leaving and goes to the PFL.
But nobody's watching.
Nobody watches.
Nobody cares.
He knocked out some dude in the PFL and nobody cared.
Is he making more money?
Yes.
He cares.
He cares.
Well, that's why he did it.
Yeah, that's all that matters.
A great deal with the PFL and then he got to box, boxed Tyson Fury, boxed
Anthony Joshua.
Doing well.
Doing well.
Much, much more money for sure, which is good.
But the fortunate and unfortunate, fortunate that the UFC is the best
promotional organization that's ever existed.
They really know how to do it.
They do it right.
They make stars out of these fighters.
They give them all these opportunities.
They get the most asses in the seats.
Every pay-per-view sells well.
When there's a UFC pay-per-view, people line up to see it.
There's a bunch of stars in the UFC.
But unfortunately, when they're in other organizations, even if they're getting
paid more, nobody knows where they are.
And so if they want to come to the UFC, they have to take a pay cut, which is
crazy.
So you're leaving an organization.
Like, if you're going from small promotions in boxing and then all of a sudden
you're in a world title fight
or you're in Golden Boy promotions, you would imagine, now I'm getting paid
more money.
More people are watching me.
But it's not the case.
Like, these other organizations, like the PFL, have to pay these guys more
money because otherwise they can't get them at all.
Because everybody wants to fight in the UFC.
It's not a monopoly because there is other options.
There's One FC.
There's PFL.
There's some organizations in Russia and other parts of the world.
But the reality is it's like the NFL or like, you know, Q-Tips.
It's like it's got a name.
It's the NBA.
Nobody wants to watch some new basketball organization.
Nobody wants to watch the – I mean, the XFL, do people watch it?
I don't know.
But it's not the Super Bowl.
You know, it's like there's one big organization.
That's the NFL.
There's one big MMA organization.
That's the UFC.
And for these guys that want the glory, they want to be known as the best in
the world, there's one place to be.
So it's very difficult for those guys to hold out for more money.
It goes back to identity and what you're doing it for.
Right.
You know, that's what you got to ask yourself.
Is you doing it for fame?
Is you doing it for – to provide stability for your family?
Is it I need money?
Like, what is it doing it for?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Definitely legacy.
For the greats of the greats, legacy is the primary focus, almost always.
Greatness is always the primary focus because otherwise you never achieve
greatness.
If you're just thinking about money, I don't think those guys ever get to the
level that you're at or the level that, like, the elite of the elite get.
I think those guys have to have their eye on being the number one dog, period.
That's why I asked what you're doing it for because Nganu, you know, he's
already famous.
Right.
He's probably like, okay, well, if y'all going to pay me X amount over here and
they only going to pay me this, then it makes business sense to go over here.
Yes.
You know, and that's just like Conor Benn.
He just signed with Zufa.
And a lot of people was saying he's disloyal and Eddie Hearns now was loyal to
him and this and that and this.
He's getting 15 million for his money.
I'm like, man, what is people talking about?
I said, it's just business.
It ain't personal with them, I bet.
I said, Conor Benn did what was best for him and his family.
I said, just like the promotional companies going to do what's best for them
and their business, if a fighter that they sign lose probably two straight,
they get to cut them.
No questions asked.
Why?
Because now they're wasting money.
They fail.
They don't care about that person's family.
They don't care about that person's, you know, relationship with them.
They're not going in there with their heart like, oh, man, like you're a good
buddy.
They're like, ah, sorry, it's just business.
Cut you.
So when a fighter does the same thing that a promotional company do or a
manager or anybody else, it's all you disloyal, you this, you that.
I'm like, make it make sense.
It doesn't make any sense in boxing because in boxing there's so many promoters.
There's so many different people.
There's Eddie Hearns, Bob Arum.
There's so many different promoters.
Don King.
There's so many different promoters.
That's the beauty of boxing is that there's a lot of competition and there's a
lot of people that are there to try to get you over onto their side.
And there's cross promotion.
There's no cross promotion in MMA.
It doesn't exist.
They tried it a little bit in the early days.
They sent some UFC fighters over to Japan to fight for pride and they brought
some pride fighters over into the UFC, but they don't do that anymore.
That was the early days because it was the sport wasn't big back then.
They were just trying to get big names and they were trying to work a
promotional deal, but Japanese, man, they're clever.
Like when they sold them pride, they thought they were getting all the fighters,
turned out all the contracts were bullshit, that none of them were valid.
They basically bought pride for, I think they spent $65 million and they got a
library.
They just got a video library.
The UFC did?
Yeah, they didn't get shit.
They didn't get Fedor.
Fedor was the big dog.
At one point in time, he was...
Kicking everybody's legs, I remember.
Fucking everybody up.
Slamming them, armbarring them, fucking people upstanding.
He was complete.
And he was at the same time where Cain Velasquez was in his prime.
And that was the fight that they tried to put together.
But the Russians, because the UFC didn't have a contract with Fedor anymore
because the contracts at pride were all bulls.
They had a deal with, you know, these Russian gangsters.
And these Russian gangsters were like, you know, they wanted a piece of the
promotion.
They wanted a lot.
And the UFC wasn't willing.
It got very contentious.
Like the UFC had to up their security.
It got sketchy.
It got sketchy.
They're bad dudes.
Those are bad dudes, man.
You know?
But it's just, as a fan, we were robbed.
We were robbed of like one of the greatest matchups in the history of the sport.
And there's a few of those moments in combat sports where you've got these just
top dogs where you're like, God, we've got to see that happen.
For a while it was Floyd and Manny, right?
For a while.
And after Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out Manny, it took a little shine off of
that.
And then eventually they fought, but Manny had a hurt shoulder.
And now they're going to do it again.
They're both 50.
It's crazy.
You're going to watch it, though.
I'm going to watch it.
Fuck yeah, I'm going to watch it.
I'm going to watch him fight Mike.
I think that's crazy.
He's going to have an exhibition with Tyson, which is crazy.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Mike is so much bigger than him.
He's so much bigger than him.
He's not going to land a fist on Mayweather.
Right.
It's not after his last performance.
Yeah.
I think Tyson just needed to get it.
What do you think was going on with that, the last one?
It looked a little bit like sparring.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think it was scripted.
Yeah.
I ain't never seen Tyson biting his gloves.
And, like, you could just, it was taking all that he could not to, like, hit
him.
He, it was just, like, it's heartbreaking to see an icon go out like that.
Yeah.
You know, and.
But it's crazy also to see him fight at 57 years old.
Like, that's nuts.
Yeah, but still, like, he shouldn't have been in there at all.
You know, I think it's other ways.
Yeah.
You know, it's other ways for.
But what did he get?
He got at least 20, right?
Yeah, but still, I think.
But I think he needed that money.
Yeah, but with all his connections and things like that, I think people could
have put him
in the right position to make some money.
If he's got people with him that are looking out for his best interest.
But you know how it is.
When there's a guy like that that's a big name, usually everybody around him
pretends they're
looking out for their best interest.
But there's always lawsuits later on.
You find out someone was stealing money or not paying him what he deserved.
There's always a bunch of bullshit involved.
Yeah.
You know, unfortunately.
Especially if you're not business minded.
Which I don't know if Mike is, but most fighters aren't.
Most fighters concentrate on fighting.
Mm-hmm.
To be business minded, that's a giant distraction.
You got to pay attention to all this other shit.
On top of that, it's generally not how they think.
Right.
You know?
I mean, look at Floyd.
Floyd spends money like it's a tap.
Like he's got a tap.
Just unlimited amount of money.
Money's just flowing.
And even as much money as he's made in his career, which he's probably made as
much if
not more money than any boxer ever.
Like there's all these lawsuits.
Like he hasn't been paying things.
And he owes money on this and owes money on that.
And it's like.
And then he's got to come out of retirement.
Yeah.
That's tough.
Yeah.
That's tough.
I think it's just the lifestyle that Floyd lived.
Yes.
I think he can't fathom to just live a modest lifestyle.
It's like he got to be lavish.
Right.
He's got to have those videos where he shows you all the watches.
Where he opens the case up.
You know?
Yeah.
All the money.
He got to show that.
He got a million dollars in his backpack.
Yeah.
You know, he got the latest watch and the latest car.
And look what I just bought.
And when you get into latest watches and latest cars, you get into that shit.
Like, boy, that money goes quick.
Yeah.
Bugatti's are like three million.
There's watches that are three, five million.
That's crazy.
So, you buy a watch and a car, you're down 10.
That's nuts.
That's nuts.
Crazy.
I remember Iran Barkley was talking about that.
Iran Barkley, when he was in his prime, was hanging out with all these
professional athletes.
And everybody was getting diamond-crusted chains and this and that.
And he was keeping up with these people.
Like, you got to keep up with the Joneses.
And he just found himself, like, draining all of his money.
He was talking about it.
Like, that was the biggest detriment to him being able to save any money.
They trying to keep up.
Yeah.
Which I thought was funny when I was listening to this conversation with Chad
Ochocinco.
And he was talking about it.
He was like...
Wow, his jury fake.
Yeah, he was wearing fake jewelry.
But who would know?
What's that?
Who would know?
No one would know.
Exactly.
It's like, when they look at him, like...
Flying economy.
He was sleeping at the stadium.
Like, so he didn't have to pay for a department.
So smart.
Yeah.
So clever, you know?
But that's a guy, like, preparing.
Nobody's going to question him.
Exactly.
They know, oh, man, this NFL star, he got money.
Yeah.
You know?
So we're not going to question if his diamond's real or not.
Well, you really can't tell.
Right.
I can't.
You can't.
You can't tell until you get a magnifying glass on them.
Or that's why they say we got these diamond testers.
Yeah.
You want to test your diamonds now.
Like, come on now.
Yeah.
It's just all an illusion anyway.
Do you fuck around with any of that stuff?
I got jewelry, but I'm not paying all that money for no jewelry.
Yeah.
No, we can get some sponsorships.
Yes.
But me keep spending hundreds and millions of dollars on jewelry?
Nah, that ain't me.
It's just not smart.
Yeah.
And you don't get out of it what it costs.
Like, if you think about how much blood, sweat, what?
Sometimes you do.
What do you get?
Now, if you buy it from the factory.
Now, if you get you a Rolex from the Rolex store, you know, you might get some
money back from it.
You could flip it.
Yeah.
That's true.
Now, buzz downs, no.
But if you get it from the actual store, the protect store, the Rolex store.
That's true.
Them type of stores.
Keep the box and the papers.
Yeah.
It's worth a lot of money.
It's worth more money.
Then it's an investment.
But all them other ones, the chains and stuff like that, no.
You don't never see a billionaire with no chain.
No.
You see it with a good watch, though.
You see it with a good watch.
Yeah, that's true.
It's just the trappings of fame and also showing everybody that you have that
money.
The trappings of wealth.
You know, competing with all this other, getting your own private jet, all that
stuff.
It's like, ooh.
I learned from them.
I learned from them because the people with the real wealth, you don't know
they got the wealth.
Right.
You know?
Right.
They walk around plain Jane clothes, know nothing.
Yep.
You know, but the people that have a little bit of money, they want you to know
that they got a little bit of money, but they don't have the wealth.
Right.
So I'd rather be wealthy than rich any day of the week.
Yes.
And sneak around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And keep it.
Yeah.
There you go.
That's the thing.
Because a lot of what wealth is, is never having to worry about money.
That's the big thing.
Just have that money invested.
Have that money making money for you.
Don't spend it on stupid shit.
Live a modest life.
Live a normal life.
You're much better off.
Especially a professional athlete because you have such a small window of time.
I mean, a lot of men don't even make their real money until they're deep in
their 40s and 50s.
Or the end of their 30s.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Look at Floyd.
When he fought De La Hoya, then he fought Gotti.
Then he started making some real money.
Yes.
You know what I mean?
But, I mean, that's for a pro athlete.
But for most of these, like, really wealthy business people, most of them,
unless they're tech investors, they're making their money later in life.
And so you have all this opportunity to keep growing your wealth.
But when you're an athlete, you've got a small window of your prime.
Your prime is essentially, like, maybe 20 years.
Maybe 20 years you can make money.
From 20 to 40.
But for a pro athlete, unless you're Tom Brady, 40 is the end.
Or unless you're Bernard.
Bernard was fighting at a world-class level at 49, 50 years old, which is crazy.
Crazy.
But that's because he take care of his body.
100%.
You don't put nothing crazy in it.
Super disciplined.
Never gets out of shape.
Never puts any bullshit in his body.
And also, that mindset of what he learned when he was incarcerated.
Like, that, like, discipline is everything.
Discipline.
Discipline, knowing you're never going back to that.
Don't buy anything stupid.
Don't be done with your money.
Don't be done with your body.
Take care of yourself.
Never get out of shape.
Always keep your conditioning up so when you go into camp, you're not
struggling to get back in shape again.
You're already in shape.
Now you're just working on your skills and honing everything to a razor-sharp
edge.
I think that goes to, like I said before, the people that you have around you.
You know, that want to see you be successful and the people that you can learn
from and the people that you can get advice from.
You know, when they see you about to do something that you shouldn't do, they
be like, hey, man, we ain't doing that.
Come on, let's go.
Or they'll call you and be like, let's go run.
I'm not doing nothing.
Let's go jog or let's go to the gym or let's go eat some healthy food.
People that want to see you be successful, not the ones that say, hey, let's go
party.
Let's go drink.
Let's go do this.
Let's do cocaine.
You know.
Yeah.
I think those are the people that you need to get from around you.
100%.
The ones that see you doing things that you shouldn't be doing, but that's cool
with them seeing you doing that.
Yeah.
That's also the problem with an entourage, too.
Yeah, for sure.
These guys will roll with an entourage.
You always got one dude who's fucking up in that entourage.
There's conflicts in the entourage between dudes.
And it's like you're managing an old team of knuckleheads.
It's like, oh, God.
Yeah.
Just so that you can roll deep when you show up at a place.
You have 30 dudes hop out of SUVs.
Yeah.
Oh, he's here.
He's here.
Look at that group behind him.
I don't need none of that.
That's beautiful.
I don't need none of that.
That's a valuable lesson for young fighters to see your example.
I'm glad you live the way you live.
I really am.
I really am.
Because I think it's so important for guys to see.
So let me ask you this.
When you were training for Canelo, what did you do different?
So knowing that you're going to be fighting at 168 instead of 54 or 47, what
did you do different in terms of did you do anything different about strength
and conditioning?
How long did you prepare – like, I know you were thinking about that fight
for a long time, but, like, when you were physically preparing for it, knowing
that you were going to be fighting him at 168, what did you do different?
To be honest, I didn't do nothing different.
Really?
It's crazy.
Like, all my fights, there's nothing different.
You know, we trained for me.
Me getting sharper.
What I need to work on.
What I'm lacking in.
But the only thing that I changed for the fight with Canelo is Chet, my
strength and conditioning coach, he got me in February.
He called me up.
He's like, hey, we're going to get this fight.
He just kept saying, we're going to get it.
So you need to be working out now.
So this way before I ever got the Canelo fight, so I'm like, all right, so he'll
come over to my house.
We'll work out.
We'll work out.
We'll work out.
What kind of stuff were you doing?
Just strength work.
Just strength work.
Like deadlifts?
Like what kind of stuff?
Deadlifts, strength condition, like deadlifts, working on good legs and things
like that.
And just getting my body just, you know, back to where it needed to be, you
know.
And he's just like, man, you got to strengthen up your shoulders and things
like that.
And because Quiet is Kep, I had just had shoulder surgery.
You did?
Yeah.
So I just, you know, there's a lot of things that I go through in training, but
I don't speak about because I don't never want it to be an excuse.
You know, that's just one of the injuries that I was coming off of.
But yeah, and he was just like, man, we got to work.
We got to work.
So what was the shoulder injury?
Labrum.
Labrum.
Yeah.
So did you get it sewed back up?
Yeah.
Did you get stem cells shot in there at all?
No, no, no.
No?
I just had surgery on the front and the back.
I wish I talked to you about that.
Yeah.
Could have got you in.
Yeah.
I didn't get it on my left shoulder.
So I tore both of them.
Well, I tore my left in the Gamboa fight.
Really?
Yeah.
And you never got it fixed?
Never.
Is it okay now or does it fuck with you?
No, it's still tore.
Really?
But the doctors say if it's not preventing you from working out, then they
wouldn't advise me to get surgery.
Do you feel it?
Does it bother you?
Sometimes, but not really.
It bother me sometimes, but not crazy.
How long are you in town for?
I leave after this.
Dang.
I wish I had one.
That was crazy.
It was hurting when I was sleeping after the Majumov fight.
Oh, really?
Yeah, after the Majumov fight.
It was like driving.
Then it was just like, man, we better get it done.
But he was just on me.
We got to do physical therapy.
We got to do this.
We got to do this.
And it was just like, all right, let's go.
So he was just on me.
He was just speaking it into existence.
He was like, man, you're going to get this fight.
I can feel it.
I can feel it.
So I started training for Canelo in February.
I wasn't more so doing boxing workout, but I was just getting my body prepared
to go to camp.
And when I start back, to go.
So strength work is the basics, strength training.
But what kind of conditioning were you doing?
Oh, nothing different, like running, swimming, things like that.
And you didn't try to put on any weight?
Just tried to be able to walk around weight is?
Just tighten it up.
You know, with the strength work, just tighten it up.
That was it.
Damn, I wish I knew that you had a problem with your shoulder.
I could get you back in town.
There's a place called Waste Well that I work with here that does stem cells
that helps so many fighters out.
A lot of UFC guys come here.
A lot of pro athletes come here.
NFL guys come here just to get stem cells.
It's like a state-of-the-art facility.
It's really good.
And it could help you.
Yeah.
Just, I bet it could heal that labrum.
Probably.
Yeah.
We'll see.
Especially now because you're not going to beat it up as much anymore.
Yeah.
Obviously, I'm sure you're still working out.
You look great.
No, I'm actually not.
Not working out at all?
Nothing?
No, I've been chilling.
You earned it.
Hey, I've been putting on my time with my kids and just, you know, relaxing and
not having to worry about running and waking up in the morning.
Did they offer you a rematch?
No.
They didn't.
Because there was talk that they offered you a rematch but you wanted $100
million.
No, that's a lot.
All this internet bullshit.
That's a lot.
That's a lot.
There wasn't even no rematch in the contract.
There was no conversation about a rematch.
There still haven't been a conversation about a rematch.
I've seen Canelo said that he won a rematch but nobody has reached out to me
and said,
Hey, Terrence, what you think about a rematch or anything like that?
So, let's put that out there.
Is there a number that would bring you back?
I don't know.
Like, me personally, I can't say it is.
You know?
You're just not compelled.
Yeah, not at all.
You did it.
Yeah.
You did it perfect.
It's like I'm not.
The motivation.
I'm always motivated by competing and, you know, things like that.
But, like, when it comes to, like, boxing, it's like I did it all.
Right.
Like, it's like I checked everything off the check box.
So, it's like it wasn't close.
Right.
You know?
Right.
I beat him, you know, decisively.
So, what am I doing it for?
I think I might have given him one or maybe two rounds.
More like one.
Yeah.
It was mostly, there was, I think it was, like, maybe the fifth?
He had a really good fifth round.
Yeah, the fifth round.
He had a good fifth round.
Yeah.
But other than that, man, especially the ninth round.
Yeah.
Woo!
Woo!
And he headbutted me.
He headbutted me on purpose.
Did he?
Yes.
Really?
Yes.
I was like, man.
And he was like, sorry, champion.
I was like, it's a motherfucker.
He just got a little angry.
Yeah.
A little frustrated.
Yeah, a little frustrated.
Yeah.
It's a fight.
Like, any time I'm in a fight, I don't complain about nothing.
If somebody hit me in the back of the head or they hit me below the waist or
anything like
that, I never complain because I'm so aggressive, I'm like, it's a fight.
You know what I mean?
Like, they trying to do whatever they can to win.
It's up to this referee to step in because if he don't, then I'm going to take
matters
in my own hands and I'm going to do the same thing.
So, I don't complain.
I'm just like, bam.
I was a little frustrated.
I was like, man, all right.
All right, breathe.
Let's get back to work.
Yeah, don't lose your composure.
Yeah, for sure.
That's the problem with getting angry, right?
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
But, yeah, that ninth round, whoo, that's when you really started separating.
Yeah.
You really started pouring it on.
I was wondering if you're going to stop them.
When the ninth round was going on, when you were cracking them with some big
shots, I'm
like, whoa.
So, I told my coach when we was in there, he was like, you don't got to do that.
You don't got to, because they know me and I'm like, man, I can go for it.
And, you know, and it's just like, they just know me.
They know my demeanor and it was like, you don't got to give them a chance.
Just keep doing what you're doing.
You're boxing the shit out of them.
You're winning hands down.
Don't give them a chance.
You don't got to box them.
You don't got to do that.
You're winning.
So, it's just like me wanting to listen to my coaches all the time because that's,
I have
that much faith in them.
If they tell me to go out there and use my jab the whole fight, that's what I'm
going to
do because that's the belief I have in them, you know, and I just like, all
right.
The last round, I was like, all right, let me win this round and separate
myself, you know,
and I felt like I hurt them bad in that round.
Yes.
You know, but it's boxing.
Yeah.
Well, he's got a crazy chin.
Yeah.
He's got a crazy chin.
I mean, it's something unusual.
No.
You don't think so?
No, they said redheads, it's hard to knock out.
It's proven.
Is it?
Yeah, I Googled it.
What is they called?
Gingers?
Yeah, Gingers.
Yeah.
I promise you, when you look it up.
Well, they have a higher pain tolerance, supposedly.
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
When you look it up, I looked it up because my cousin, she's a nurse, and she
said, yeah,
and them Gingers, they hard to put to sleep, even when you giving them the
aesthetics to
go to sleep.
Really?
Yeah.
Interesting.
Anesthesia.
Redheads often possess a unique pain profile, generally exhibiting a higher
threshold for
specific types of pain, like heat or pressure, but requiring 19 to 20% more
general anesthesia.
Wow.
Or higher, 19 to 20% is a lot.
Or higher doses of certain anesthetics to reach the same level of comfort.
That's crazy.
Largely due to the mutated MC1R gene, which affects nerve sensitivity, can lead
to increased
sensitivity to pain, and paradoxical increased sensitivity to some opioids.
Interesting.
Mm-hmm.
Interesting.
Increased sensitivity to opioids is interesting.
When she told me that, I Googled it, and I was like, damn, this is why Canelo,
you
know what I mean, can take so many good shots.
That does make sense.
Well, you know, Neanderthals supposedly had red hair, so maybe like redheads
have more
Neanderthal genes.
Probably.
Probably.
You know, the Neanderthals were brutally strong.
I wonder if that's where it comes from.
I thought she was playing at first, man.
She was like, man, when we be trying to put them to sleep, it'd be harder to
put them to sleep
than normal people.
So I started Googling, and I was like, you're fucking right.
19% to 20% is nuts.
That's a lot.
That's like the difference between killing someone and them just going to sleep.
Like, you give them an extra 20%, they might not wake up.
Facts.
That's crazy.
19% to 20% is wild.
Yeah.
Well, I was talking to Jim Lampley, and I didn't know this, but Canelo has
always been
riding horses since he was young.
That's good for his balance.
And the legs.
And the legs.
Yeah.
It's his base.
That's a big part of it.
Also, he's got that thick fucking neck and a big square head.
Like he's been doing an iron neck all this time.
Quick search says Neanderthals have a different mutation that actually gives
them more sensitivity
to pain.
Interesting.
More human, most humans.
Interesting.
More sensitivity?
Yeah.
Lower threshold.
Interesting.
That's like the opposite.
Wow.
Even though they're redheaded.
Yeah.
So he ain't one of them.
He ain't one of them.
He's the other one.
It's one of those Mexican redheads.
Right.
Yeah.
It's wild.
That's crazy.
But yeah, I never thought the horse thing, like Lampley was explaining.
It was like, yeah, the balance and the legs, because you're constantly
squeezing down on
that horse, and you're constantly adjusting, and your core and everything.
I'm like, oh, I never even thought of that.
I would just think, fucking, why are you riding horses when you're a world
champion?
Don't do that.
People fall off horses.
They break their fucking neck.
Don't do that.
Yeah.
I seen a guy break his arm.
They wanted me to take a picture on the horse, and my bro, Manny, was like, man,
I don't
know about these fucking horses.
These horses be crazy.
I said, man, I rode horses before.
He was like, yeah, but it's a lot of people around.
And he asked the guy about the horses, and the other guy was like, yeah, he can
get on this
horse.
So I get on this horse.
So I get on the horse.
I take the horse.
I take the picture, and I get off.
No longer than like 10 minutes.
This guy on his own horse, his horse just fuck, go crazy, fuck him off.
Boom, he broke his arm.
This in the parade, and the horse is just running wild.
I'm like, he said, see, see, this is what I was telling you.
He was going crazy.
He was like, see, I told you these fucking horses.
But it wasn't the same horse.
It was a different horse.
Yeah.
But he was just like, see, that's why I was telling you, these horses be
fucking crazy.
Yeah, you just never know with animals.
My oldest daughter got into horses for a while.
One of her friends used to do those things where, you know, the horse jumps
over a thing,
like, you know, they have like a whole obstacle course.
And she was getting into that, and she fell once, and she was okay, and then
she fell a second
time.
She hurt her wrist pretty bad.
I was like, honey, you've got to stop.
You can't be doing this.
This is too dangerous.
Because, like, those kind of injuries you get falling off a horse, especially
if you
get stomped, those are life-changing.
Especially if you get tied up.
Oh.
I done seen videos of people getting bucked in their legs.
Oh.
They just a rag dog.
Oh, getting stomped in the head.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
Yeah, horses.
Fuck that.
Fuck that.
I know quite a few people that have fallen off horses and been okay, but, like,
why?
Why do it?
Yeah, nah.
Yeah.
Texas Ranger.
Everybody wants to be a cowboy.
They watch Yellowstone too many times.
Yeah, everybody wants to be a cowboy.
It's funny.
We were talking to Andre Ward on the phone today when you had Andre on FaceTime,
and you're
talking about burbles.
Yeah.
But I've been going down this Berber rabbit hole, those mastiffs.
I'm fascinated by them, man.
South African mastiffs, they used to keep lions and hyenas away from the farms.
You know, and we were talking about coyotes.
Like, you got land now.
You know, you're just, you're relaxing now.
So, I like it.
Separated from everything.
Got some space.
Yeah, but it's crazy because when I was building a house, you know, a lot of
people was like,
oh, he's building a house on the Aero Spence money and this and I and this.
I'm like, dude, do you know how long the process is of building houses?
Like, this is not no week or two month deal, you know what I mean?
It's years.
Yeah.
Just from design to the beginning of construction, it's years.
Yeah, for sure.
You got to go pick out every fucking thing in the house.
You know, I bought that land in 2016.
Oh, really?
Wow.
And I just was sitting on it.
It was a house there already.
You know, I had it rent out to one of my buddies, my best friend at that, you
know.
And when the time came, I had more kids.
So, you know, it was better that I waited than to build then.
So, I just was like, man, it's time.
You know, it's more peaceful out there.
The kids, they ride the four-wheelers out there where we can shoot out there.
Nice.
We can do whatever we want out there.
And it's just, you know, peaceful to wake up to the sunrise and, you know, the
nature calling.
Yeah.
Ain't nothing like it.
That's the dream.
It's definitely the dream.
Yeah, for a lot of people.
That's nice.
That's nice.
It's nice to see someone just setting their life up right.
Yeah.
You know, I'm just amazed that you don't get the itch at all.
I'm more competitive in other sports, you know.
Like what?
Like basketball, football.
I'm anything.
I ain't gonna lie.
Anything I do is like, I gotta compete.
I gotta compete.
Darts, pool, like whatever.
You remember I came in here like, you want to play pool?
You're like, let's do it.
I was like, no, I was just playing.
You can't kick my ass on camera.
I heard that you was good.
I fucked Lennox Lewis up.
Yeah.
He was talking a lot of shit.
Lennox Lewis never got a shot.
I ran two racks on him.
And he was like, we're done.
I came in here pump faking you.
I knew, though.
Already knowing.
Yeah, I knew right away.
I just like to have fun, you know.
Well, everyone who is an elite athlete is insanely competitive.
Yeah.
You know, that's the problem, though, is unfortunately some of them get
involved in gambling.
You know, like that's the Michael Jordan thing.
That's what we were just talking about.
Yeah.
He was like, you gamble, I said, man, I ain't never gamble.
Good for you.
Stay the fuck away.
A lot of people was always asking me, why you don't gamble in your fights?
I mean, no, I don't gamble at all.
Good for you.
You know, they was like, oh, well, we see you when you gambled on the streamer,
you know,
Aiden Ross.
I said that was only because he called me out with my brother.
What did you do?
What was that?
He bet me $10,000 that TF Female was going to whoop Shakur.
Oh, that's a crazy bet.
You know what I mean?
So it was just like.
That's a silly bet.
He called me out on live, you know, streams.
So I'm never going to back down from that.
Of course.
I'm riding with Shakur until the wheels fall off.
That's also like if I was making odds, I'm putting like a six to one.
Yeah.
Like that's a crazy flat out bet.
Yeah.
You're not even getting any odds on the money and you're putting it on TF.
No disrespect to TF Female, but I think that Shakur is, he has the potential to
be an all-time great.
Yeah.
He will be.
I believe so.
He will be.
All he got to do is keep doing what he's doing, stay focused.
Yeah.
And that's it.
It's just, with fighters like Shakur, Devin, it's all about staying focused.
You know, when these young fighters get to the pinnacle of boxing and they got
everything at their disposal, sometimes they get caught up in the limelight and
the things that really don't matter.
You know, as long as they stay focused and keep their eye on the prize of where
they want to go and where they want their legacy to land, they're going to be
just fine.
Yeah.
Because it's easy for them to get caught up and want to be a fan-pleasing
fighter, you know, listening to the masses, oh, they need to fight like this,
or I don't want to see them fight because all they do is run or all they do is
fight like this.
And they pity Pat, they ain't got no power, this and that and that.
It's boxing, they winning.
All they got to do is keep winning.
That's it.
Well, look at Floyd later in his life.
Yeah.
Like Floyd later in his life fought so safe, but yet made so much money because
he talked so much shit.
For sure.
That people were spending money hoping he was going to lose.
And he's not the first one that did that.
Tyson.
Yeah.
Roy Jones Jr.
Yeah.
Muhammad Ali.
Yep.
And I always, I said this when I was with Todd Reign, I said, why is it only
the black fighters that got to talk shit to sell like that?
Well, in MMA, it's white fighters too.
Conor McGregor.
No, no, no.
Conor McGregor, you know, I say he one of us, you know, because they was
treated like black people over there where he from.
You know, a lot of people don't know that.
Oh, yeah.
A lot of Irish slaves.
You know, they was, they was treated just like us.
So, you know, I consider him one of us, you know, but at the same time, you
know, in boxing, it's always the black fighters got to be the ones that step
out and play this circus role.
And, you know, be the one to talk shit and have everybody hate them.
But the ones that don't, like Andre Ward, Terrence Crawford, Tim Bradley, you
know, they boring or they can't sell, things like that.
Is you judging me for what I say or what I do in a ring?
Well, this is the difference with casuals versus people that really appreciate
excellent boxing.
I knock people out.
Of course.
That's what people want to see.
They want to see action.
I'm going to give them action.
But I think for casuals, they want to see a lot of shit talking too for some
reason.
They want to get emotionally wrapped up in your conflict with this other person.
But they pick and choose.
They do sometimes.
Yeah, they do sometimes.
But, I mean, like, look, Tyson Fury talks a lot of shit.
Oh, yeah.
And, obviously, one of the greatest of all time.
You know, talked a lot of shit, sold a lot of tickets, you know, singing and
shit.
Yeah.
After the fights, that guy's great.
And his draws.
And his draws in his cup.
Legendary.
He's a legend.
Legendary.
He's a legend.
I mean, that guy.
But he's from a different country.
Sure.
He's a gypsy.
So, you got to understand, like, he bringing those people over here.
And they're going to support him win, lose, or draw.
Yep.
You know, when we went over to the UK and we watched Amir Khan fight Kel Brook,
it was an
electric fire.
And those guys had losses, been both stopped and all that.
You know, but those people came out to support like a motherfucker.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And I left that arena like, God damn.
Man, I wish I was, you know, from the UK, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, because the way they support boxing.
Oh, yeah.
They don't look at, oh, since you lost, you know, we're not going to support
you.
They look at, no, these are warriors.
And we're not going to stop supporting them because they lost.
That's true.
That is true about the UK.
America, they like, man, you got your ass, well, on to the next.
You're a bum, you're washed, you ain't as good as you said you was or we
thought you was.
And it's just like they chew you up and spit you out.
And it's like, God damn, you know how hard it is to stay at the top of a sport
that everybody's
gunning from you?
You know, that's shit hard.
Yeah, that's the culture of America, though, right?
It's a bit of a problem.
Yeah.
It disgusts me with fighting.
It's not like that in the UFC, though.
It is.
Not so much.
There's plenty of people.
Well, the UFC, it's not as important to be honest.
I'm about to say it's only like a couple of people in the UFC that was undefeated.
Very few.
You know, you got Khabib.
You got Jon Jones.
He had that one little loss.
That's a bullshit loss.
Yeah, but everybody know that was a bullshit loss.
Yeah, he dominated that dude.
My boy, Cejudo, he just finally lost with Not Too Long.
Well, he lost a bunch of times.
He lost to Mighty Mouse early on.
Then he came back and beat Mighty Mouse to win his first title.
But like, everybody else be having like five losses and stuff like that.
And they be at the top of the top, you know, and everybody still support them.
But don't nobody go, oh, he got five losses.
He trash.
He this and that.
No, I just, maybe it was off night.
There's something to that because I think it's more difficult to not lose in
MMA.
There's just too many different styles.
There's too many different approaches, too many variables.
And it's also so difficult to not be hurt in training before you fight.
When you're grappling, kicking legs, elbows, all that shit you're doing in
training.
Jiu-jitsu.
You know, you're manipulating joints.
There's so many different things that can get fucked up.
I mean, think about all the things that get fucked up just with your hands.
Just boxing.
Shoulders, back, knees.
Ribs.
Ribs, yeah.
Neck.
Yep, neck, short.
Water.
Yeah, yeah.
And then add getting dumped on your head.
Add, you know, getting kneed in the face.
Add, getting your legs kicked.
Knees buckled.
Toes broke.
Toes broke, yeah.
I mean, Pereira fought a world title fight with a broken toe.
Yeah.
Just came in and fought with it.
And afterwards, toes all fucked up, crooked to the side, and he, like, adjusts
it, pops it into place.
Yeah.
It's tough for them, for combat sports, you know.
And people don't know, like I said, they don't know what we go through.
We don't never walk in a world-class fight, you know, the same or 100% healthy.
Like, everybody just be like, oh, man, I'm 100%.
No, the fuck you're not.
It's not possible.
There's always going to be something that's bothering you.
Yeah.
If you're going through a 10-week camp, how is it even possible to not have
something?
If they bullshit, but it's going to show in the fight.
Right, right.
It shows in the fight.
But don't they, everybody always, nobody says, I'm pretty fucked up going into
this fight, but I'm hoping it works out.
Nobody says that.
Nobody says that.
No, I mean, it's just, it's the game.
When they talked about my shoulder, you know, before the Canelo fight, I was
just like, I don't know, tell them to hit me in both of my shoulders.
Like, it don't matter.
Like, my shoulder is healed.
Like, yeah.
How long did it take before it fell 100% again?
After the fight.
Really?
Yeah.
Because I got it on Halloween.
Oh, you got it in October.
Yeah.
And then how many months did you have to recover?
I fought September.
Whoa.
Okay.
So that wasn't even a year.
So you had not even a year.
And when did you really start training hard again after the surgery?
Probably April.
Okay.
That's a good amount of time.
Yeah.
And people don't realize, like, shoulders are such a complicated joint.
There's all this different movement to it.
And it still wasn't, like, 100% after I fought.
Because you didn't have your strength all the way back to, even after you
fought.
Yeah.
Like, it wasn't 100%.
So it wasn't 100% in the fight?
Mm-mm.
That's crazy.
I always tell people, like, if you watch my jab and my hook in the Canelo fight,
then watch
my jab and my hook, my prior fights, you know, and Magimoff and Spence, you'll
see the difference.
Really?
You know, but the blind eye wouldn't even notice it.
Right.
You know, they would just be like, ah.
Well, it's still as effective.
Yeah.
But then when they know, they'd be like, it wasn't as snappy.
It wasn't as hard.
Mm-mm.
You know, you kind of was just, like, landing out there.
So, that's just little key, little things.
But now it's 100%?
Oh, yeah, it's good now.
Wow.
And the left one doesn't bother you, really?
The left one, it bothered me when it's overused.
Mm-hmm.
You know, but, like, in a fight, no, I don't think none of that shit bothered
me.
Do you have any plans to come back in town?
No, no, no.
Can we get you back in town and get you some stem cells?
I never come to Austin.
You know, the only time I ever came here was this podcast.
Never, ever been here in my life.
Really?
Oh, it's a great city.
Yeah.
Julie always talked about it.
So many good restaurants.
So many good places.
She took me to the college and all that and, you know, reminiscing because she
went to college here and she just loved it here.
So, she's like, this is the parts that we went to.
This is this, this, this.
I was like, oh, Julie, you're a happy place, huh?
She was like, I just love it here.
Well, why not move here?
It's a great town.
I love it to death.
But if you want to come back, I would love to get you set up, get your shoulder
taken care of.
For sure.
It'll change your life.
Stem cells, wild.
Man, it's crazy what it could do.
Yeah.
It just regenerates tissue.
Everything heals.
Like, within, like, weeks, you start feeling better.
You're like, God.
Yeah.
Everything just feels looser.
For sure.
I've had so many friends that were, like, on the verge of getting surgery, like,
I don't know, the doctor says I need surgery, get stem cells.
Everything's good.
I had a full length rotator cuff tear.
I went to the doctor six months after the stem cells.
He's like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen.
He's like, that tear doesn't even exist anymore.
It's gone.
Completely healed.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
Like, stem cells are nuts, man.
And they're getting better at it all the time.
Like, it's just, pharmaceutical drug companies fucking hate it.
Surgeons hate it.
Like, doctors hate it.
Because it's going to cost them money.
Yeah, it's going to take away their money.
Yeah.
There's a bunch of people that are going to get treated with stem cells that
don't need surgery.
Right.
And afterwards, they're like, oh, I'm good.
Because the doctors, like, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like
a nail.
And these doctors, the way they make their money is cutting you.
And they all want to cut you.
And it's amazing how many different, especially soft tissue injuries, how many
different injuries you can heal with stem cells.
It's pretty remarkable.
My doctors try to avoid cutting me.
They do?
Well, that's good.
So they waited all the way till.
That's a good doctor.
You know.
That's a good doctor.
Till it was like, we got to.
Mm-hmm.
You know, so.
And that's after the Magma fight, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I'd love to get you back in here because I really think they could help
that.
For sure.
Yeah.
Especially you got your whole life ahead of you now.
You don't want, you know.
Yeah.
You don't want that bothering you, fucking with you.
You'll be able to do whatever you want.
And especially now, because you're not training hard, ooh, it'll heal good.
Yeah.
It'll heal.
Because that's the problem.
A lot of guys, they get the stem cells, and they go back.
They go back to training in a few weeks, and then they kind of, it's not 100%
healed,
and they tweak it a little bit, and, you know.
But now, if you're not training at all, this is the perfect time to do
something like that.
Yeah.
So, what is your plans now?
Now that you're on top of the world, you did it.
What does it feel like?
It feels, man, like it's supposed to.
Like it's supposed to.
Nice.
It feels like it's supposed to.
Like, a lot of people, they ask me, they say, man, how do you feel?
Like, how's the retired life?
I'm like, the same.
Like, nothing in my life has changed, but the people everywhere else congratulating
me and things like that.
But, like, as far as, like, my living, you know, aspect of my life, it's the
same.
Like, when I'm fighting, training, you know, I'm focused on the fight, but
after that, it's, like, my kids.
You know, the gym, things like that.
Do you have any interest in doing commentary at all?
Because I think you would be great at that.
I don't, I'd be chilling.
I don't be liking to be in the media talking and all this stuff.
But, you don't even have to be in the media.
I'd be avoiding the media.
I'd be avoiding, you know how, like, some people, like, they want to be all up
in the limelight and things like that.
Yeah.
I'd just be, I'd be avoiding.
They'd be like, Terrence, can we get in here?
Nah, nah, nah, right now, I don't want to talk.
Yeah.
You know.
Well, I appreciate you coming in here, though.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
You know, but a lot of people ask me that.
Do you want to be like all the other fighters and be a commentary, you know?
Nah.
Good for you.
I'd be cool.
Good for you.
That's going to help you so much.
It's going to help you so much because it's the people that crave that limelight.
When it all goes away, then they're like, well, who am I?
I thought I was special.
I thought I was special, you know?
I want to be the guy when, oh, he's here, he's here, you know?
They want to be constantly in the limelight, showing up at red carpets, all
that.
I avoid all that shit, too.
I don't want to have nothing to do with that.
I know who I am, you know, internally, you know, so I can't nobody, you know,
tell me who Terrence Crawford is.
So I'm happy in my own skin, always been happy in my own skin.
And I believe that's how I got to the point where I'm at now.
You know, when nobody believed in me, I didn't listen to them because I knew
who I was all along.
When people told me I was a bad businessman, okay, look at me now.
You know, when people told me what I should have did and what I shouldn't have
done and I did what I wanted to do, look at me now.
So now it's like, everybody like, man, this dude was new all along.
It's like, yeah, because I'm not a follower.
I'm not going to listen to people that has never done anything in their life
and never took no chances or no risks to tell me what I can and what I can't do.
So I'm happy in my own skin.
I'm happy, you know, whether they chat my name or whether they not, as long as
my family love me and my family there.
When they're good, they're well taken care of, then that's the only thing that
makes me happy.
That's beautiful.
I hope young fighters that are inspired by you take that example.
I hope they take that mindset and try to adopt it as their own.
I really do.
I really do because there's so many young fighters that just can't wait to be
that person in the limelight, can't wait to be that person living flashy in
front of everybody.
It's a foolish adventure.
It's temporary.
It's temporary.
And they don't understand that.
Like, they only chant your name for a moment, you know.
It's very temporary, you know, and they'll turn on you in a heartbeat.
You know, just do something crazy or lose a match that you're not supposed to
lose or be up against one of your rivals and you lose, and then everybody's
going to turn it back on you.
100%.
You know, and you're going to be sitting there lost.
Look at Broner.
Yeah.
When he was at the top of the top, everybody was there.
Yeah.
He had everybody in his corner.
Now he had his lowest.
Now they making fun of him.
Now they taking pictures.
And, you know, I hit him up.
He makes fun of himself, too, though.
Yeah, he do, but he's suffering.
Yes.
You know, and I hit him up, and I try to encourage him, and I send him messages,
and I, you know, and you got to be there for people when they're at their
lowest.
That's great.
He was a very talented guy, but, again, that's what you said.
Like, he's a guy who really got caught up in it.
Mm-hmm.
That's a perfect example.
What's Gervonta doing now?
I don't know.
Is he on the run?
I don't know.
I don't know nothing about that guy.
I think he's on the run.
At least he was, like, recently.
That's unfortunate.
He's so fucking talented.
He's such an unusual style, too, you know?
Very economical, throws very few punches, but when he does, it's boom.
Explosive.
Super, super explosive.
I mean, this is a great time for boxing, though.
It really is.
It's an exciting time for boxing.
There's a lot of stars right now, you know?
And they fighting each other.
Mm-hmm.
That's the most important thing that I could say is the fights is being made.
Whether you're on this side or that side, the fights is being made.
The promoters is working together within each other.
So, no matter.
What do you attribute that to?
Do you think that's Riyadh's season?
Of course.
Yeah.
Of course.
Yeah.
Turkey came in, changed up the game.
You know, he went to the fighters.
You know, hey, I got this, I got this.
We want this fight to happen.
And the fighters are like, whoa.
We know we're not going to get this.
And nothing.
Nobody would have never seen no B-Vol, better B-If fight.
That fight would have never happened.
Them promoters are not going to pay that money.
You know?
So, there are so many fights out there that the promoters would have never paid
for.
Top Rank would have never paid the money that Turkey paid to see Shakur and Tio
fight.
Right.
You know?
So, we got so many fights because of him.
And we need to be appreciative of him because without him, none of those fights
would have happened.
100%.
The Canelo fight wouldn't have happened for me.
The Majima fight wouldn't have happened for me.
And so many more.
Absolutely.
I think that's very exciting.
But that's what the sport needed.
Yeah.
It needed someone to come in with deep pockets.
Yeah.
That just said, let's make these fights happen.
And I think that's why, you know, boxing is on the rise right now.
People is talking about boxing more.
People is more supportive about boxing now.
And people is tuning into not only Riyadh season shows, but all shows.
Look at Clarissa.
Yep.
She just put on a hell of a performance.
Hell of a performance.
And it was rocking in that moment.
Yeah.
Oh, that was crazy.
It was sold out over 16,000 people as a woman.
I know, right?
Man, she's doing her thing.
And people don't give women enough credit.
Like, she bringing out stars, you know.
And, man, it was a good atmosphere in there.
Yeah.
And it was a very skillful fight.
Yeah.
They came to bang.
They came to bang.
I said, y'all came out of there fighting like cats and dogs in that first round.
Ooh-wee.
But you could see it in her face.
She wanted the knockout so bad.
Oh, yeah.
That she's a dog.
She's ferocious.
Yeah.
And so skillful, too.
Yeah.
You know, but she's a unique individual star in a realm where there's not a lot
of women
stars.
Yeah.
You know, it's like.
But I think a person like her can encourage others.
Yeah.
And there could be more.
And when you have one star, a lot of times it does sort of open up the
landscape for more.
For sure.
For sure.
Because she.
She transcends.
Yeah.
She transcends boxing.
Like a lot of people know who Clarissa Shields is.
A lot of people know who she is outside of boxing.
And there's not a lot of other female boxers you could say that about.
You know, there's only been a few ever.
Like Christy Martin.
Ely Lali.
Ely Lali.
And Wolf.
Yeah.
And Wolf was good.
Yeah.
And Wolf.
Woof.
That like crack.
She could.
And she was a ferocious trainer, too.
Remember when she was training Kirkland?
Yes.
Bro.
With the bag on the back of the truck.
Oh, man.
She'd make him go through hell.
But when he was with her, he was phenomenal.
When he undefeated with her?
I think he was undefeated with her.
Yeah.
And she wasn't with him when he fought Canelo.
Unfortunately.
A couple of fights, huh?
I don't think she was good.
Well, I think it was too much.
Like, it was too hard.
Like, he didn't want to do it.
She's a tough lady, man.
She'd put you through some fucking hell.
Her training.
Like, there's some videos of her putting Kirkland through training camp.
And I was like, my God.
And for a woman to be able to do that, you know, it just shows you how
impressive she was,
how special she was.
But his performances showed as well.
Yes.
You know?
Yes.
Because she was getting in his mind as well as physical.
Yes.
You know?
And taking everything from him.
Mm-hmm.
And putting him in a room and not his training.
It was kind of like Rocky.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
You ain't got no TV.
All you're doing is work, eat, sleep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Boxing.
Yeah.
You know?
And it was just like, damn.
I got into old boxing footage real recently over the last, like, six months.
I've been watching a lot of old camps.
And there's some great YouTube channels that shows Hagler's camps.
Mm-hmm.
And Hagler's camps were phenomenal.
It was so good.
Like, Hagler was rich, and he would go to Provincetown, this shitty little
fucking town on the Cape.
No disrespect, Provincetown.
I'm just saying, and compared to where he could be.
I mean, he could be in New York City.
He could be anywhere he wanted.
But he would go to this small town in the middle of fucking nowhere and run on
the beach and live in a room with no TV, no nothing.
Just eat, sleep, train.
He was sparring 100 rounds a week.
I mean, it was wild.
Watching him train was incredible.
It was incredible.
And when he would get into that ring, there was no stone unturned.
No stone unturned.
And it was just all discipline and drive and focus.
And he was another guy.
Didn't get his due.
Didn't get his due until he stopped.
Really, until he stopped Hearns.
That's when people really woke up.
You know, all the inside boxing people were very aware.
But it took a while.
It took a while before the rest of the world caught up.
Because it wasn't flashy.
Yeah, it wasn't flashy.
Just dominate.
Just break people's wills.
The Mugabe fight to this day is one of my favorite fights of all time.
Because Mugabe was putting people in the hospital.
That was tough.
Oh, my God.
Mugabe hit so fucking hard.
But that was the other thing about Hagler, man.
Had a chin from hell.
You know, Hagler had extraordinary mandible muscles.
They did a CAT scan on him.
Like a scan of his head.
They said the muscles on the side of his head.
It's like he was born with headgear.
Or he developed it just from biting down on a mouthpiece for so long.
Yeah.
Aw.
But I love watching those old school training footage videos.
Like there's some great ones of Sugar Ray Robinson running in the mountains and
hitting the bag and training and all the calisthenics that he had to do.
I think more people should see stuff like that just to appreciate the amount of
discipline and work that it takes to get into peak condition for a fight.
Because I just don't think they understand what your mind has to go through to
get up for that every day over and over and over and over and over until you're
finally in the ring.
Like the ring is almost the easy part.
The easiest.
It's tough.
It's like, you know, when we in Colorado and we got to run the mountain, like
sometimes I'll be like, man, I ain't running this mountain.
Like I don't care.
And then it'd be like, you're going to get your ass whooped.
You better get your ass up.
Or Bo would come in there and be like, let's go.
I'd be like, man, Bo, let's go.
Bo got this saying.
Anytime I'm giving him some push, he'd be like, I'm not about to argue with you
for you to be great.
Let's go.
I'd be like.
That's great to have someone with you.
Hey, right.
I'd be like, here we go.
He's been with you from the beginning?
From the start.
That's so big too.
And it's crazy because the days that I don't want to do nothing is the craziest
days that I do the best.
You know, and.
Because you conquered that inner bitch.
That thing inside you that wants to not do it.
Yeah, Stephen say.
I'm the fucking man.
Yeah, Stephen be like, he was like, when you don't want to do something, it's
like, you're trying to hurry up and get it over with.
So you're trying to do it fast.
So like my best times is when I don't want to do it.
Like my best sparring is when I don't want to spar.
Because it's like, I'm like, all right, I'm about to fuck you up because I ain't
about to play with you.
I ain't about to go in here doing all this extra shit.
You know, I don't want to get hit.
You know, so it's like your best days is when you don't want to do it.
Yeah.
You know, that's when I perform the best in the gym and stuff like that.
So, yeah, man, a lot of young fighters, when they come and see my training,
they see what I go through three times a day.
So it's eat, sleep, shit, work.
You know, they're like, man, you train too hard.
I'm like, ain't no such thing.
You know, Tim Bradley told me, hey, man, you got to rest.
You got to chill out.
Andre Ward, man, you got to rest.
You know, and these last two training camps, I took on their advice and took it
just a day off, like, in a week.
Like, every week, instead of training seven days a week, I take one day off
just not doing nothing, and it helped me tremendously on my recovery.
Really?
Because I used to just do active rest on Sunday.
We'd do the incline.
We'd just do the incline.
That's it.
In the morning, early in the morning, and then we'd have the whole day to
recover.
But he's like, no, you got to just take the whole day off, not doing nothing,
and just recover.
And as you get, as I got older, you know, my last two training camps, I took
that advice, and it's just like, man.
I'm like, man, I could have did this years ago.
I was just so, like, locked in, like, if I take a day off.
They're going to have a day up on me.
Right.
You know?
And I was just like, I can't do that.
I was just working.
Well, it's a fine line where there's a point of diminishing returns, where you
put in too much work.
Yeah.
Like, seeing a guy fight when he's over-trained is one of the saddest things
ever.
It's like his drive actually fucked him.
Yeah.
I've seen it before.
In MMA, it happens all the time.
Especially guys who don't use heart rate monitors, don't monitor their resting
heart rate when they get up in the morning.
I was at my last two camps.
Oh, and that was the only two camps you did that?
My last two camps.
Wow.
Interesting.
Interesting.
So, like, everything was visual with my coaches because they've been with me so
long.
Right.
So, they know when to pull back.
Right.
Like, some days they'll be like, all right, you know.
You're peaking.
You did four rounds.
Nah, we done.
Like, man, I got eight rounds today.
Ah, you good.
Be like, what?
You good.
Don't worry about it.
We'll come back tomorrow.
You know?
And I'll be like, all right.
You know, I will never question them.
Right.
You know, or we come in there and they'll be like, all right, today we're just
going to shadow box and we're going to hit the mitts.
But I never questioned them.
But they already knew.
Right.
By watching me, you know, along the weeks to pull me back, when to pull me back.
Yeah.
And then it started getting, you know, to me.
And I'm like, oh, okay.
So, now that I know that.
Like, they're not going to let me overtrain because they know I'm going to give
it my all every time I train and anything I do.
So, they just pull me back.
Like, all right, well, we're going to just do yoga today and we're going to do
boxing work.
We ain't going to do no, you know, strength and conditioning.
We're not going to do no road work.
Or we're not going to, or we're just going to swim.
We're not, instead of running, we're going to swim.
You know, so, some days they're flip-flop.
That's the beauty of having a really good trainer.
Yeah, for sure.
And someone is really paying attention to you.
And knows you.
Like, knows the signs.
Knows when you're a little sluggish.
Knows when you're peaking a little early.
Yeah.
Before you bet.
Yeah.
And anybody said that you train too hard, it's like, compared to who?
Compared to who?
You know, like, it's whether or not you've built your body up to the point
where you're
doing that for so many years that your body's conditioned to go that hard.
You know, because there's people that used to say that if you run a marathon,
like, you
need, like, six months off.
I had a friend.
It was my friend Cameron Haynes.
He runs ultra marathons.
When he was training for a 250-mile run, he was running a marathon every day.
Every day.
Most people, the conventional wisdom was, you can't do that.
Yeah, you can.
Yeah.
You just got to get up to that.
So if a fighter is slacking off in between camps and getting fat and drinking
and fucking
off, and then they get back into camp, yeah, you can't do three hard a day like
that.
Yeah.
But if you're already in shape, and you're already conditioned, and you have
built up this
base of years and years of doing this, your conditioning will be so much better.
One of the things that I notice in young fighters in particular, especially in
MMA, is how tired
they get in a three-round fight.
Just a three-round MMA fight, how tired they get.
And I'm sure they train hard, but they don't train as hard as these guys who
don't get tired
in a five-round fight.
So what is the difference?
Well, it's the years and years of building up that cardio base, not fucking up
your body,
not partying.
Knowing how to breathe.
Uh-huh.
That's the most important.
Being efficient.
Yeah.
Because when I, my first time at the UFC, when I did strength and condition,
you know, I was
like, man, I'm not getting nothing out of it.
It's easy.
And it was like, well, it's not meant to break you or kill you.
You're going to see the difference.
And I'm just like, man, when I'm, when I'm doing UFC back, back at home, like,
I'm sore.
Like, I'm not sore, you know, the next day when I'm doing strength and
condition here.
But like, gradually you start seeing the results, you know, and it's like, damn,
you know, and
it's a science behind it.
Yes.
You know, and I was just like, in my mind, I'm like, man, I'm not working hard
enough
because I'm, I'm used to working hard and I'm going home and I'm like, oh, that
was a good
workout.
I feel it.
Like, psychologically, I'm like, I don't feel like I did nothing, you know,
because my body
is in sore and shape, you know, I'm like, man, I need to do more.
And they're like, you good.
You did a lot today.
You know, I'm like, all right.
So, like, gradually I'm starting to see the effects.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I'm like, oh, okay.
So, maybe he was working me out too, too hard, you know, and I'm, I'm getting
stronger
and everything.
I'm just like, okay, you know, it's all, it's all a science.
It really is a science.
And, you know, the problem with fighters is, especially elite fighters, is they're
so driven,
you know, and sometimes you can't let the dragon off the chain.
Yeah.
You know, like, slow down.
Yeah, yeah, slow down.
We got to do this.
We got to progress.
Yes.
Progress over time and get to that perfect point.
The week before the fight where you just settle in and then fight time.
That's my guy, Gavin.
Gavin just like, oh, don't worry.
Steps.
Well, that's the beautiful thing about having someone that you can trust that
really knows
what they're doing.
Yeah.
And, you know, there's a lot of young fighters that are just all gas, no brakes,
and they
might be costing themselves a little bit.
But then there's a lot of lazy fighters like, yeah, I don't want to overtrain.
Yeah.
Like, no, no, no, you're undertraining.
That's why you get tired all the time.
You're not in good enough shape to be doing the proper workout that you need to
do to really
prepare for a fight.
Yeah.
It's just this fucking dance, man.
Yeah.
It takes forever to learn.
It takes forever.
You know, that's why, like, a lot of fighters, they reach their prime when they
get into
their 30s, because they get it all dialed in.
They know what they need.
They know what they need to do.
They know what a camp really feels like.
They prepare for it.
Being there, the experience.
Yeah.
You know, so, yeah, they definitely know their body.
They know when they're in shape, when they're out of shape, what they need,
when they need
a little more, yeah, experience is the best teacher, I would say.
Well, experience and then listening to people like you, that's a big factor.
Listening to people that have done it all and, you know, and that wisdom, the
just, the things
that you've said on this podcast today, I guarantee you right now, there are
hundreds of thousands
of fucking future fighters that are listening to this right now and that are
probably, like,
taking it all in.
Okay, because, you know, in the early days, you don't know what the fuck to do.
You don't know what.
What's the right approach?
Is his approach?
Is his approach?
Like, what's the right mentality?
What's the right mindset?
What's, who are the right coaches?
Which is a big factor.
You get a bad coach and get stuck with a bad coach and it'll limit your
development.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
And that, that goes back to styles.
When I said I was trying to coach everybody to the same style when everybody
ain't meant
to be trained the same.
Everybody don't have the same, you know, mental capacity to process things the
same way.
Some people process things different.
That's kind of like yelling at a fighter.
You know, that, that motivated me.
Sometimes that break fighters, they like, ha ha, I'm getting yelled at, I'm
doing something
wrong.
And, you know, so, um, we look at them like, man, toughen up, you know, but
nowadays it's
different.
Like everything don't flock the same with one fighter like a dude.
No, you got to figure out what, what gets your fighter going.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's, uh, that's another interesting dance.
I don't envy those people because your livelihood depends upon another person
performing, which
is kind of crazy.
It's a crazy way to live your life.
That's any sports.
Yep.
Like I always say, sometimes I blame the coaches, but for the most part, the
players
and the fighters and the athletes, they got to go out there and perform.
I can tell you go out there and do this, but if you don't go do it, then that's
on you.
Now coaches, they can make the wrong, I mean, they can get out coached.
They can call the wrong plays at the wrong times, different like that.
But all in all, if he go out there and miss a tackle, if he go out there and
not catch
the ball, why am I getting fired?
They're going to blame me.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, that's true.
Hey, I can't make him hit the three.
I can't make him, you know, D up.
So I'm getting fired because they not performing.
You're also getting fired by people that don't totally understand all the
subtle nuances
of what you do if you're a coach.
Yeah.
Like if they're not a coach, how could you really understand?
If you're not day in, day out with these athletes in their head, working with
them, seeing what
they're doing, improving upon their strengths, strengthening their weaknesses.
If you're not doing that, you just are seeing results.
That's all you see.
You're judging based on results and you don't really know who's a good coach
and who's not.
Because if you're a good coach, you got shit athletes.
Yeah.
You can only go so far.
That's it.
And it's tough.
Yeah.
It's tough to, you know, go across the middle and try to catch a bullet without,
when you
know the safety about to come in later, the crazy slap on you, you know, and it's
crazy
to go up, you know, on a seven footer trying to shoot a three.
Like it's hard at a professional level to do what these athletes is doing, but
they making
it seem like it's easy on the outside for us.
And we like, man, you didn't catch the ball.
It's like, man, you try to catch that ball with three people, you know what I
mean, on
you, you know, coming full speed and you got to worry about getting your feet
inbounds
and things like that.
It's so much.
Well, it's like Tia Fimo's corner during the secure fight.
You got to hit him.
You got to hit him.
Like, what do you think I'm trying to do?
Tell me how to hit him.
Tell me how to set up to him.
Don't just tell me you got to hit him.
You know, and that, that, that, that goes in to saying that everybody shouldn't
be a
coach.
Right.
You know, because now you're not giving me a no instructions.
You, you going off of emotions.
Right.
And you just telling me, Hey, you got to hit him.
You, you not hitting him.
What are you doing?
Yeah.
Now, what if Tio would have said, what is you doing?
Cause you're not telling me nothing.
Right.
You see me trying to hit him, but he moving, you know, like what I, what I
supposed to
do.
I'm swinging and I'm, I'm missing.
Right.
So tell me how to set it up to him.
But there's really nothing.
Anybody could have told him.
Yeah.
The gap was just too wide at that point.
Right.
Yeah.
They should have studied more in training, but even then it's like the problem
is years.
It's years of advancement.
It's years of intelligent boxing.
It's years of setups.
It's years of skills.
I think when a fighter have a good coach that's knowledgeable and they believe
in a coach and
a coach asks them to do something and they believe that that's going to work,
they'll
try it.
You know, if your coach tell you, all right, listen, he's stepping back every
time you step
in.
So that means for every time he stepped back, you got to step in twice and
double, double the
jab and close the distance and let your hands go when you get in range.
And that fighter go out there and do what the coach asked him to do.
And he's successful.
Then that's a different ball game.
That's a different ball game.
Because now you listening to your coach, but your coach is seeing what the
other fighter is
doing.
That's making him be more successful.
Technical instruction.
There you go.
Yeah.
You can't just go go out there and hit him.
Tell me how to do.
I hear that shit in the corner.
I'm like, good Lord, what are you saying?
Yeah.
You hear it in MMA all the time.
You got to put it on him.
Oh, oh, I didn't know.
Oh, I got to put it on him.
All this time I was hoping it would just happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, listen, man, congratulations on everything.
You had a fantastic, spectacular, like one of a generation career.
So it's beautiful to watch.
And as a fan, I'm honored that you came in here.
And I think what you've done is just fucking incredible.
So congratulations on everything.
And enjoy it.
Enjoy all the rest of your life because you earned it all.
Definitely.
Thank you very much.
All right.
Bye, everybody.