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Marcus King is the lead singer, guitarist, and founder of The Marcus King Band. His most recent album is “Darling Blue.” https://marcusking.komi.io https://www.youtube.com/@RealMarcusKing https://www.marcuskingofficial.com
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John Steinbeck, East of Eden
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Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
What's up, Marcus?
Good to see you, brother. What's happening?
It's crazy to be here.
It's crazy to have you here, man.
And thank you so much for the guitar.
That's the dopest shit that anybody's ever given me.
Man, I hope you like it.
I'm sure I like it. I just can't play.
And I would love to learn how to play, but I know my brain.
And I can't give my brain another thing to do.
You've got a lot.
Well, the problem is I get obsessed with things.
Me too.
I'm sure. You can't get as good as you got without getting obsessed.
Are you like this? Like, I don't like doing things I'm not good at.
I love doing things I'm not good at to get good at them.
Right. But it's not leisurely to me to play golf.
Like, I can't enjoy it because I'm bad at it.
Well, you'll enjoy it if you get good at it.
But the problem is, to get good at it, then you've got to get obsessed.
Yeah.
And then you've got to take less.
Like, Jamie's got a fucking virtual reality thing in the back where he whacks
balls every day.
He's obsessed.
It's like recovering from hitting today.
Sweating.
Wow.
My drummer's a really good golfer.
Golf is one of those things that if you get into that, man, that's your whole
fucking day.
That's eight hours.
It goes out three or four days a week on the road.
When I was living in Boston, I noticed that the comedians that really got into
golf, their career kind of stalled.
Because they were just playing golf all day, having fun, drinking, and then
they'd go to the club at night.
But they weren't writing any new jokes.
They weren't obsessing on their career.
They kind of stalled out a little.
When I still drank, I really liked golfing.
Yeah?
And then I quit drinking.
I was like, I don't really like this.
When did you quit drinking?
Well, I quit a few times, but the most recent time was like a year and a half
ago.
Were you quitting because you were just off the rails or like you got to get
your health in order?
It was kind of a combo deal.
When I met my wife, at that point, I thought that I could drink like a
gentleman.
And it just never really worked out that way.
There was just something in me that just wanted to completely burn my life to
the ground every time I drank.
A real destructive quality.
Ooh, that's not good.
Yeah.
Yeah, fortunately, I never had that.
But that is a thing.
I've seen that.
What is that?
I think a lot of it is repressed emotions.
And that's where they find you when your brain is in the off switch.
Demon in the bottle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They go, hey, Marcus.
Yeah, man.
Let's get those problems out.
It seduces me.
It's like, you don't need anybody.
Fuck everybody.
That woman that married you, you don't want her.
I think sometimes people do that to almost like save themselves from heartbreak
sometimes.
You kind of like wreck it yourself.
It's like making fun of yourself before anyone else can.
Right.
It's like that thing.
Yeah, right.
Like, just assume it's going to go bad eventually.
Let's get this fucking train on the tracks right now.
Crack.
Pour.
Crank.
Rawr.
That was kind of my, you know, that was my approach for a while.
I just, I don't know, man.
I was just, I didn't want to feel anything.
So that was where it would always end up.
And I remember even asking my wife, like, a couple years ago we opened up for
the Avett Brothers in Raleigh, North Carolina.
And at that point I had been sober for like six months.
And I was like, I really think I can handle it.
And then, and then cut to, it's like the famous last words.
I chucked a jumbo white claw.
Like, I started with a jumbo white claw.
And I just got completely hammered, blacked out.
Pissed my wife off so bad.
Like, I woke up and I was at our friend's house still, like on the floor.
And she left in my bus.
And like my wallet, everything was on the bus.
I had no identification.
She was like, you can fucking figure it out, man.
Wow.
And the bus turned around, come and got me.
But, yeah, she doesn't play any games.
So, did you stop then?
Yeah, I did.
Oh, so one night.
Yeah, I had one night off the leash and I just couldn't handle it.
You know, there's just some kind of quality in me that's like, I can't stop,
you know.
And maybe someday I'll find that.
It's like, I got to get right in here, you know, and in here with myself before
I can really consider that again.
I quit drinking for about eight months just because I realized I just wasn't
feeling good.
I was doing, because of the club, I was at the club every night.
And, you know, it's like one night someone would say, hey, let's do shots.
I'll do a shot.
I want to be, you know, cordial, hang out with everybody, sense of community.
Let's all do it together.
Come on, boys.
And then, you know, two drinks, three drinks, go home, get up, feel like shit,
work out, do it again the next day, feel even shittier the next day.
And it's like, God damn, I got to take some time off.
So I took about eight months off.
I think, I think, I'm not exactly sure how much time I took off.
And then I had like a drink with dinner one night.
And I said, this is all right.
And so since then, I've never gotten drunk.
I've only had a drink or two.
Yeah.
You know, so I've managed it.
But I was not an alcoholic.
I was just realizing that all this fun was, it was messing up the rest of my
time.
I was like, what is it, there's an expression that when you're drinking, like
the, you're, you're taking a loan out on the good times that you could have had
for some good times that you could have right now.
Wow.
And then you got to pay it back.
Yeah.
With, uh, with interest.
Yeah.
Well, physically, the problem is physically for me, it just wasn't worth it.
I just, I would be working out at the gym going, why, why am I doing this?
I keep feeling like shit.
And every time I'm working out, I'm pushing through all this, you know, toxic
shit that I poured down my throat the night before.
And my body's recovering from it.
So I feel tired and drained.
And then my brain wasn't working as well, you know, that was, that's what it
was for me was like the anxiety and just like the, uh, the dopamine depletion.
And just feeling just completely just like, and I'm somebody who was already
struggling with like, that's why I drink in the first place.
It's like my mental issues and just anxiety and depression.
And, and then it would just kind of hit me tenfold the next day.
Um, it's always interesting to me when someone with anxiety chooses a path in
life, like live performing.
Yeah.
Cause like if it's anything that gives people anxiety, it's live performing and
you're really good at it, which is crazy.
It's like, you know, you're, you're picking this thing that you're really good
at, but that gives a lot of people anxiety and you have anxiety to begin with.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like, there's, there's something to that.
It's like Dan Soder.
I always quote him on this.
He's like, you know, I go around each night, like craving the approval of like
thousands of people a night.
You're like, you didn't think I was doing that.
Cause things went well growing up, you know, like I'm fucked up.
I need, I need all these people to tell me I'm doing a good job, but, um, I
think the idea is that eventually you channel that.
And when you get yourself to get the idea, some people have this idea that if
you ever get yourself together somewhat, you know, I don't think anybody ever
gets totally together, but you get yourself together somewhat and then you don't,
you don't do it for the approval of it.
You do it for the love of the art of it, the thing and bringing the thing to
people and getting enjoyment out of having these people have a good time.
Yeah.
And I think you, I think that can be done.
I think you can shift your focus from, I just want these people's love to, I
want to give them love.
I want everyone to have a good time.
You know, I want to be up there just fucking having a good time.
They're having a good time.
We all have a good time together.
I make their lives feel better for a brief moment.
I feel better.
Everybody's, everybody's better off.
And that's the shit, man.
That's what I crave.
And I mean, that's why I like, we just did a run of Texas honky tonks, which
that's, that was kind of the goal was just to get everybody in these sweaty
rooms just for the purpose of just like enjoying music again, getting back to
these sticky floors.
Yeah.
Well, you reached out to me because we were talking on the podcast about how
rock and roll is kind of dead.
And you said, fucking rock and roll ain't dead.
Come on.
And I was like, all right.
Well, there's anybody that could tell me that rock and roll is not dead.
It's Marcus King, man.
Yeah, I was, my boy, Ben Jernigan, he told me, he was like, you should text Joe.
Because I'm an avid listener.
I was like, you think I should say something?
He's like, yeah, fucking tell him rock and roll ain't dead, man.
It's here tonight at Green Hall.
Well, it's not dead, but it's different.
And a lot of the rock that's out now that's doing really well is like a
Southern inspired rock, which is interesting.
There's like a Southern, almost country like rock, like bluesy country rock,
you know, red clay strays, like that kind of shit.
They're doing great.
It's like, there's a lot of that out there, you know, like people, people are
digging that kind of music, but there's just, you know, when I talk about like
rock, I mean, like when I was in high school, it was all Van Halen, ACDC, like
that.
There was so many big rock and roll bands, the Stones, you know, there was just
so much of that out there.
And it's odd that there's not a lot of big bands like that anymore.
I think it's coming back around.
God, I hope so.
It doesn't make sense to me because like the classic rock is still like we're
in the green room and Freebird comes on.
Still, everybody's going nuts.
I mean, you know, I mean, there's classics, another Southern rock and roll band,
Leonard Skinner, but there's, there's still like a love.
Of that kind of music, but it's just, it's weird that it kind of, you know, you
just didn't, I don't know what happened.
Well, it's interesting how cyclical the music industry can be.
Like, I feel like for the first time in the last 10 years, like since Urban Cowboy
came out, like, because I mean, for the last 10 years, I've been going to LA
with a cowboy hat on.
And I always get the same shit, like, well, where do you want to park your
horse?
You know, like, what are you up to, cowboy?
People just talking shit.
But now I go out there and everybody's got a cowboy hat on.
Really?
It's like chic.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
It's like in vogue, like the cowboy thing.
Which makes you not want to wear a cowboy hat.
You know, it's just, I think rock and roll is kind of having a similar resurgence.
God, I hope so.
I hope so.
You know, I mean, there's got to be people out there that still love it.
And I just don't, I mean, I just don't understand how there's no new big bands
like that.
Well, it's interesting.
You know, I was actually, I was in the gym watching Led Zeppelin at Royal
Albert Hall.
Oh, wow.
And I was like, this is a fucking jam band.
They're jamming.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, it just, like the Allman Brothers band was a jam band.
Mm-hmm.
Like, they had guidelines.
And that's kind of how we do our show.
Like, we have songs that we're playing just to get to that, that improvisational
section
where we can just kind of, you know, work with the chemistry of the crowd and
each other
on stage.
Mm-hmm.
And it's just, it's interesting to me, like, the way things have become subdivided,
you know?
It's like, you're not a jam band unless it's like widespread or like Phish or
like The Dead
or something like that.
But like, Zeppelin was a fucking jam band.
Yeah, in a lot of ways.
Yeah.
Especially when they're performing live.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, what is that band that sounds like Zeppelin?
Greta Van Fleet.
Yeah.
Greta Van Fleet.
They're fucking great.
They are great.
It's weird.
It's weird because they sound so much like Zeppelin, but they're really good.
Yeah.
So, like, I give them a pass.
They get a pass from me.
I mean, they're my boys.
I really, I really like those dudes.
Like, we used to party together a bunch.
They live in Nashville.
And the guitar player, Jake, he's just the sweetest guy.
Like, he gave me a housewarming gift.
He's like, really into pirate stuff.
Pirate stuff?
Yeah.
He's really into piracy.
And he gave me, he gave me like a, like a, like a musket pistol.
Oh, wow.
Like what a pirate would have carried around.
A real one?
Yeah.
So, like from the olden days?
Yeah.
Oh, shit.
That's got to be worth a lot of fucking money.
Yeah.
I mean, they're doing pretty well.
Wow.
What is an old musket pistol run?
How much can you get one of them for?
See if you're going to find something, Jamie.
A musket?
Yeah.
An old musket pistol.
You know, when the conquistadors took over Mexico, that's, they had 12 of those.
That's it.
12 guns.
12 musket pistols.
Wow.
Yeah.
I looked that up on perplexity.
I was diving deep into how the fuck Mexico became Spanish.
Yeah.
You know, like what happened?
How did they, like they lost like a hundred indigenous languages at least.
Wow.
It's kind of crazy.
But here it is.
What?
You can get one from 195 bucks?
Modern reproduction.
Oh, reproductions.
What about a real one?
Down here.
Antique ones.
17th century Barbary Wars antique pirate flintlock pistol recently sold for $416.
That's it?
Yeah.
That seems crazy.
That seems crazy.
It's pretty good for a gift budget.
I'd say it looks, based on how many reproductions and what you just said there
being 12 back then,
there might not be that many of them that exist to make reproductions.
But if this says antique pirate era muskets and it said it's sold for $416.
I mean.
From the 17th century.
Maybe it sucks.
Maybe it's a bad one.
That's all they can get.
But it's from the 1600s and it's sold for $416.
I'll try to look it up.
Can you see what those look like?
We'll see if we can get one.
We should get one and put it on the wall.
Oh, shit.
Look at that one.
Yeah.
How much is that one?
I think that's the one that's sold for $400.
That says $155.
What?
That's crazy.
How are they so cheap?
There's the ones for $416.
God, that seems like they should be almost priceless.
I mean, this is from the fucking 1600s and it's sold for $400?
That one sold for $200?
Wow.
Just go pick them up.
There's a store in Austin.
I bet they've got a bunch.
No way.
Yeah.
Really?
I went to the store.
They've got a bunch of weird shit like this.
They must have.
They would have to have them if they're only $300, I guess.
I would say.
And all kinds of armor and guns and cannons and weird shit.
What?
What place is this?
It's called, like, Collector's...
I'll look it up real quick.
There's something weird about those dudes who, like, want to recreate wars.
Yeah.
That's an odd thing.
That's a very odd thing.
Yeah.
I mean, I've got the facial hair of a Civil War re-enactor, but it's about as
close as
I get.
You got that shit on the wall?
Oh, wow.
That's a store here.
That's in Austin?
Yeah.
No shit.
Yeah.
Well, that's pretty fucking dope.
Yeah.
I didn't price it out.
Collectors Crossroads.
I popped in there one day to see what it was about.
And they have little musket pistols?
Yeah.
They got all kinds of shit.
I wonder how do you know that...
Crossbows.
Swords.
Crossbows is just a shitty gun.
I'm not a fan.
What if it was a pirate's crossbow?
Yeah, I guess.
It's kind of cool.
But it's just...
It is weird that we're really into, like, old...
Like, you know, it's interesting you're holding something that's a piece of
history.
And what history is, is, like, at the time, this was the shit.
Like, at the time, this was, like, the coolest thing you can get.
Like, 400 years ago, if you wanted to kill somebody, this was the way to do it.
You had to get one of these things.
Which is very odd.
Yeah.
Which is very odd that...
Oh, look at all this stuff.
I don't know if it was George Washington shit there, but they had...
That's what it looks like it would be.
George Washington swords?
I don't know.
We should get one of those for Shane.
He's a big George Washington fan.
Look, there you go.
There is a musket.
Oh, wow.
Look at that.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't even know what that is.
That's a weird one.
Look at the handle on that fucker.
This is from Middle East, Central Asia.
That could be...
Oh, look.
It's got, like, a dragon mouth on the back of it.
That's pretty sweet.
Wow.
Huh.
All right, so...
We need one of those.
All right.
Let's take a road trip, Jamie.
We should probably do it before this episode comes out.
No, we'll grab it tonight.
Yeah, we need to go down there today before this episode goes.
We fuck up their business.
You go there, it's empty.
All these dorks have fucking armor all over their house now.
It's just...
People that are really into, like, the old wars and recreating old wars,
I always want to know, like, what's wrong with you?
Like, what happened to you?
Yeah.
It's, um...
I grew up with a kid that was like that.
That was obsessed with, like, everything Army-Navy.
But his father was in the military, but he had never gone into the military.
They wouldn't accept him.
Why?
I don't know.
I don't think he could ever pass the physical.
He was a bigger dude.
Oh, okay.
His name was Maurice.
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They say that 77% of American kids can't pass the physical to get into the
military.
I believe it, man.
Just based on my own experience.
Like, I remember the presidential fitness test.
Like, that's a bad memory of mine, just hanging on the pull-up bar in front of
all my classmates and not being able to do one pull-up.
Just hanging there.
What is the presidential fitness test?
It's something they did when I was a kid.
It's like they wanted to make sure that you could do, like, ten push-ups or
however many pull-ups or whatever.
How many pull-ups do you have to do for the presidential fitness test?
There's a different standard, but they literally, this was going on last week,
they just started it up again.
Donald Trump had, like, Bryson DeChambeau in the White House with a couple guys,
Gary Player.
They're kids?
Well, they had kids in there also.
That's funny.
It's funny because I'd go, hey, why don't you do it?
Let me see you do a chin-up, bro.
22 push-ups for a 10-year-old.
22 push-ups?
That's a lot.
Yeah, 45 curl-ups, that's crazy.
6 pull-ups, that's a lot.
What's a curl-up?
With the other way, like, biceps, hands, you know, pull-up with your hands.
45?
Yeah.
Come on.
That's crazy.
Wait a minute.
In an 8-minute mile?
Come on.
Is that really?
It says 6 pull-ups or 45 curl-ups.
But curl-ups aren't that much easier than pull-ups, are they?
I remember when I was 10, they were.
What?
But that's just being a 10-year-old.
Because your body, you're only like 60, you know, I don't know, kids are light,
usually lighter than I am.
How's heavier than most?
Yeah, I was going to say, there are different standards.
I remember kids.
But bro, 45 is crazy.
That seems...
That seems excessive.
That seems like a lot of reps.
I don't even understand how that's possible.
That that's the standard?
I don't think I could do that.
Actually, I think those are sit-ups.
It's calling it a curl-up, because here it says it measures abdominal strength.
Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, sit-ups.
Okay.
Oh, why are they calling it curl-ups?
Because it was like, 45 chin-ups.
So it's like, there's pull-ups and chin-ups.
Which one's a pull-up, which one's a chin-up?
Pull-up, hands-over.
Okay, and then chin-up is the same.
Yeah, that's what I would do.
45 of those would be bonkers.
That's crazy.
I can't do that.
Because like, six pull-ups, I could do.
Easy.
But 45 sit-ups is still hard.
That's hard, too.
Well.
That's a lot.
It's a standard.
Huh.
Not every kid's there.
That seems like a lot of kids wouldn't be there for 45 sit-ups.
Yep.
What are they trying to do?
What are they doing to us, Joe?
I would fail on that, too, so they couldn't draft me.
These motherfuckers are talking about drafting people.
I was listening to Tim Dillon's show, and he was saying that, see if this is
true, that
Palantir thinks that we should reintroduce conscription, that kids should start
getting drafted
again into military, and they should have mandatory military experience for
kids.
I just don't understand why anybody would want to support that.
That sounds crazy.
Especially after this Iran war, where everybody's like, why the fuck are we in
Iran?
And if you signed up for that, that sounds nuts.
Is that real?
Palantir has publicly called for the U.S. to move away from an all-volunteer
military and
towards some form of universal national service that many observers interpret
as reintroducing
a draft or conscription.
Yeah, Tim got into this manifesto that I haven't looked into this yet.
Why the fuck would a tech company be saying that we need to move towards a
universal national
military service?
How about fuck you?
How about fuck you, you go?
Because you know, none of these tech dorks that are running these companies,
they're not
doing it.
Like, what are you talking about?
Yeah.
Throwing meat into the machine?
Right.
Throwing people's children into these unnecessary wars?
Fuck you.
It's scary.
It's very scary.
It's scary that they would, like, how about, let's figure out a way to use your
technology
so there's no more wars.
Wouldn't that be a better goal?
Right.
Instead of getting kids to fucking learn how to go shoot people they don't know?
Sure.
Because someone tells you to?
And how many of these, out of all the wars that we've been in since World War
II, is it
zero that made sense?
I think it's zero.
I don't think there's one war that we've been in since World War II that makes
any fucking
sense at all.
Sure.
And they're like, I think the solution is we need more people to be forced into
it.
I mean, what would a draft look like in today's culture?
I mean, like, with inclusion, would it be, like, anybody at 18 years old can be
drafted
or do you think it would still be just able-bodied young men?
That's a good question.
You know, I'm for people doing whatever they want.
But when it comes to, like, combat, you're going to draft women?
That would be fucking insane.
That would be insane.
So are you not going to- are you going to be sexist?
Are you going to- yeah, are you going to go inclusion and say, everybody has to
do it?
Well, then that'll be good for America because most people would say, get the
fuck out of
here.
There's not a chance in hell we're doing that.
Right.
I just don't understand how people that aren't elected officials that
essentially just run
a tech company would think it's a good idea to call for national military
service.
I've heard other people say that, too.
I've heard, like, podcasters and weird tech people say it's a good idea.
And I don't know what the fuck they're thinking.
I think they should have to go over there and experience war and then come back
and see if
you really think the same thing.
Sure.
I buy that.
I mean, or at least go on, like, a USO tour or something.
Go with Jeffrey Ross.
See what it's about, you know?
Well, then you're just going to meet people that are happy to see you.
You need to actually see combat.
I just don't get why we're even listening to them.
You make software.
Keep doing that.
Yeah, it's interesting that they don't even have the- like, why would they say
that?
It doesn't- no, it doesn't sound good.
And it's also- they make weird surveillance software that a lot of people are
like,
but how much are you surveying- how much power do you have?
Like, Tim Dillon went pretty deep on it on the show, which is- I can't
recommend enough.
If you're not listening to the Tim Dillon show, you're fucking up.
It's the funniest fucking take on all the chaos that's going on in the world.
I don't think there's anybody better right now.
His- his podcast is fucking phenomenal.
It's my must-listen-to podcast every week.
Yep.
It's so good.
I just listen, but if you watch it, it's even more ridiculous.
He did this thing about them giving Ozempic to babies.
Oh, it was so funny.
It was so ridiculous.
My dad did Ozempic, and he said- he said, man, you know, like, you can eat
through that.
He's like, you can just keep going.
I mean, you won't feel great, but, you know, it curbs your appetite, but you
can get it down.
Well, Tim talked about it because he did it, and he said it didn't just stop
his desire for food.
It stopped his desire for everything, which I've heard.
So there's some people that think there's some good in these GLP-1s for
addiction because it curbs whatever that is as well.
So it can help people with all kinds of addictions, too, not just like food addictions,
alcohol, but gambling, like weird stuff.
I heard that.
Yeah.
I did.
I actually- I was doing it for a minute, and it was around the time that I was,
like, one of the times I was trying to quit drinking, and I was working on a
record.
And I was trying it out, and it actually curbed my desire for a drink.
Yeah?
Yeah.
What else did it do?
Gave me really bad stomach cramps.
Yeah.
And also, I mean, that was, like, before I really- I just, I don't know.
At that time in my life, I just wasn't really concerned about what I put in my
body, you know?
And I say that while I'm smoking a cigarette, but, you know?
But, dude, you're smoking natural spirits.
I think those are safe and effective.
Yeah.
You know, additive-free.
Yeah.
I just- I always wonder about these things when things come along to give
people an easy fix.
Like, okay, maybe it works, or maybe there's some sort of side effect that's
going to fuck you up for the rest of your life.
And for some people, there is.
I mean, some people are experiencing all kinds of wild side effects.
Stomach paralysis is one of them.
Brian Simpson got pancreatitis from it.
Really?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
He was sick in bed for, like, two weeks.
It fucked him up.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
I mean, the long-term effects, like, you just have no idea.
Because it's new.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
I've also heard that the problem is the dosages are too high.
And what- you know, when you go into a doctor, they give you a standard dosage.
And the way to do it, some people feel, is to make a much smaller dose
than what they're prescribing.
And that that's what you need.
You just need a little bit of a curb to it, not like a complete cessation of
all desire to eat.
Right.
Get into that high dosage really fast could probably be harmful.
Or have some fucking discipline.
Yeah.
How about try that out?
How about try out don't eat as much?
Same thing.
Right.
Except this way it's not going to kill your body or kill your stomach or make
you go blind.
What are the side effects?
I was just looking at you.
Because there's a lot of lawsuits.
There's a shit ton of lawsuits that are coming down the pipe.
Because I think people have gone blind.
I think I might have made that up.
Chuck that.
But this is some wild lawsuits.
Yeah.
Where people are claiming bad side effects from this stuff.
Which, you know, makes sense.
It's a medication.
People vary biologically.
Can cause vision.
Permanent blindness.
Yeah.
In one eye.
Oh.
Well, you know.
You got your other guy and now you got a six pack.
Eye stroke.
Eye stroke.
Oh boy.
Wow.
Woo.
Non-arturitic interior ischemic optic neuropathy.
I don't think I said that right.
Sudden painless and often permanent blindness in one eye.
Wow.
Eye stroke sounds like a punk band.
It does.
Side effects.
Acute pancreatitis.
That's what Brian got.
Gallbladder problems.
Gastroparesis.
Stomach paralysis.
Bowel obstructions.
And potential thyroid tumors.
Hmm.
Mild GI issues are common.
These severe complications require immediate medical attention.
Often occurring more frequently at higher doses.
Yeah.
That's what they're saying.
It's apparently when you're getting it from a pharmacist.
Pharmaceutical drug company.
You're getting it.
This is the argument for compounding pharmacies apparently.
And then there's a new one that's coming out.
What is it called?
Rituatide?
Rituatide.
Rituatide.
Rituatide.
And this one is supposed to be better because it doesn't cause muscle loss.
And it doesn't cause bone density loss.
And it's supposed to be more effective.
Huh.
Investigational.
I mean, I don't know.
I just typed in Rituatide.
That's what it's telling me.
Isn't that a weird word?
Investigational.
Once weekly injectable triple agonist medication targeting GLP-1, GIP, and glucogen
receptors.
Developed by Eli Lilly.
Showing unprecedented weight loss results of up to 24% in phase two trials.
They say that this is going to be a trillion dollar medication.
Or have some fucking discipline.
Yeah.
Go to the gym.
Eat better.
Be healthy.
Do what Jelly Roll did.
Yeah.
You know, Jelly Roll was at the club last night.
He's down 300 pounds.
That's fucking nuts.
He runs like five miles a day.
He works out every day.
He looks fantastic.
He looks like a different person.
It's like I knew him when he was like 500 pounds.
Now I know him when he's in the twos.
It's like he's a different human.
He looks different.
I know it's still Jelly Roll, but it looks like a completely different man.
It's nuts.
I remember when we did, I was in the house band for Kill Tony at the Garden.
And Jelly came out and did New York, New York.
Yeah, I was there.
That's got to be a custom suit.
I was like, that's a big suit.
Yeah.
And then the next time I saw him, he was like he is now.
And I mean, hell, like what I did, because I have an appetite, you know.
Like what I do now, like I'm basically doing like a keto diet.
Because I like to eat a lot of whatever it is.
Me too.
So if it's like a big salad, you know, or whatever.
But I'm down like 25 pounds doing that.
Oh, that's nice.
Yeah.
Are you doing this with the help of a nutritionist?
Are you just doing it on your own?
Just doing it on my own.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're laughing.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, you know, it's just I've tried a few different routes, man.
I've been, you know, I've been, you know, Husky since I was a kid and shopping
in the Husky
department at Kmart, you know.
Is this, do you think it's a genetic thing?
Do you think it's the way you ate as a child?
What do you think?
I think psychological, a lot of it, it was like the only thing I had control of
as a child
is like food.
It was like, and a scarcity mindset as well.
Yeah.
It's just like the way that I, you know, think about food is just, you know,
probably not
the healthiest.
So for me, it's just easier to say like, I don't eat these things.
Because like, if I eat bread or something like that, it just hurts my stomach
now, you
know, and I just, I can feel like the difference when I don't eat it, you know,
I just feel
better.
I have more energy.
100%.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And once you get your body working on ketones too, the thing is you've just,
you're
brain functions better.
That's one of the more interesting things.
This is why people take things like, um, um, like ketone, what is it?
Ketone IQ.
That stuff's great.
Like you just down one of those little shots and it puts you into ketosis
temporarily.
Oh, really?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
They're exogenous ketones.
I think the guy who just invented those just died.
Um, he was also a guy that worked for Balco Labs.
He developed the, the clear, that shit that Barry Bonds took.
Okay.
The steroids.
So this guy was a chemist.
He was a scientist.
I think someone, oh, I think Chris Bell, Chris Bell or Mark, I think it was
Mark Bell just
posted about it on his Instagram page that this guy just died.
This guy was like one of America's great chemists and he developed a lot of
these things, including
exogenous ketones, according to Mark.
But, um, that's one of the things that I noticed when I went into, when I did
the carnivore
diet is that immediately my brain just started functioning better, which is
what I try to eat most
of the time.
Like this morning, I ate, um, sausage and eggs and sausage from an animal that
I shot.
I like to do that.
I eat, like, uh, I had sable.
This is the guy.
So this is Mark's Instagram.
The greatest chemist of our time and possibly any other.
Patrick Arnold is dead.
Patrick Arnold is the guy who made the cream and the clear for the Bonds and
McGuire, uh,
all that Bonds and McGuire blasted home runs off of, supposedly.
In addition to those incredible inventions, he also brought exogenous ketones
to the market.
What happened to that guy?
How did he die?
That's an interesting picture to put up.
Yeah.
Looks like Oswald looking at Jack Ruby.
He looks healthy.
I want to know how he died.
I wonder how old that picture was.
Organic chemists.
Androstenedione, too.
Oh, he, he had all those, uh, pro, what are those, pro hormones or whatever
those things
were that people were taking that weren't totally steroids, but they were kind
of steroid-like.
How did he die?
Does it say?
It's a weird website, too.
Uh, he died at 60.
Hmm.
Maybe he's experimenting on himself.
Why don't you just put in cause of death?
Oh, it should pop that up.
I know, it should come up.
You would think a guy who's working on, like, performance and fitness.
Does it say?
No.
There's a Reddit post, but I don't know.
When you click on what happened, oh, to David Arnold.
That's somebody else.
Oh, Patrick Arnold.
Huh.
So, it just doesn't say how he died?
Nope.
And it just happened, so there's not a lot of news about it.
Oh, okay.
So, it hasn't been released yet.
Yeah.
Hmm.
It doesn't say.
He made a lot of roids.
You gotta wonder.
The dude is, like, doing so much work in anabolic steroids.
He worked for Balco.
They were the ones that were making undetectable steroids.
Do you know about that whole story?
This is back in the, was it in the 90s, Jamie?
The Maguire.
It was around 2000.
So, they developed steroids that were undetectable.
So, when they would test for steroids, what they would do is they would take,
because when, I guess the way it works is when they're doing a steroid test,
they're looking for very specific molecules.
So, they invented a molecule that had, like, additional things attached to it
where it wouldn't show up.
I'm probably butchering that.
But, essentially, they were undetectable steroids.
One of them was called the clear.
And the guy who ran their lab was called Balco Laboratories.
It was this guy, Victor Conti, who eventually went to jail for that.
And then when he, I don't know why he went to jail,
but he got out and then became an anti-steroid sort of activist.
And he was, I don't want to say activist, but he was essentially,
he was ratting people out and saying that this guy's probably doing steroids
and this is how he's doing it.
And then a lot of athletes were using his company
to use steroid-free performance-enhancing supplements that were legal.
So, he would show you what's legal and how to do it.
He knew a lot about it because he did the illegal stuff, too.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I've gotten a couple steroid shots, like, before a show, like, if my voice goes
out.
Like, what kind?
Is it, like, a cortisone or?
I guess that's what it is.
It's like that one that they shoot in your ass cheek.
Hmm.
What does that do, like, for your voice, when your voice goes?
Yeah, it just brings you back.
Man, it's got to be rough when a fucking singer loses their voice.
Yeah, I mean, people have asked me before, like, what my warm-up routine is,
and, like, I've never had one.
A few cigarettes.
A couple cigarettes.
It used to be a shot of whiskey.
If I was really in dire straits, I would take, like, a handful of sugar-free
gummy bears
and put boiling water on that.
Really?
And then the gummy bears would, like, coat my throat.
Huh.
Like, honey, ginger, lemon.
Yeah, hot water and lemon is a really good one.
Yeah.
There's something about that that eases.
Really, it's, like, time off is what fucks my voice up more than anything.
Time off?
Yeah.
Really?
Oh, so, like, your vocal cords get out of shape.
Mm-hmm.
Interesting.
Because it's hard to, like, keep them up, you know?
Right.
Unless you're, like, going in your garage and screaming for two hours a night,
you know?
That's crazy.
I never thought about it like that.
Like, your vocal cords are essentially a muscle like any other, and they
develop over time,
and you get endurance.
That makes sense.
Yeah, so, like, the pandemic was, like, the first time that a lot of us, like,
had any extended amount of time off from the road,
and we all started noticing, like, or at least me, like, I came back, like,
hurting a little bit.
Oh, that makes sense.
I saw Guns N' Roses in Athens, Greece,
and Axl Rose, you know, has that crazy singing style.
Yeah.
It's like a, like, and that has to be fucking hell on your voice.
And, you know, the show was amazing, but his voice is not the same.
It's just, there's no way it can be.
I know Steven Tyler, like, he's back.
Is he?
Yeah.
So he quit for a while, because he was like, I can't sing,
and then he healed up, and now he's back again?
I don't know exactly what he did, but I played with him back in January,
and, like, the boys, the boys back.
No shit, that's fucking great.
Singing his ass off.
That's fucking great.
I love to hear that.
I saw The Stones a couple years ago at Circuit of the Americas,
and Mick Jagger can still wail.
Yeah.
He can still wail.
That was a great fucking show.
Almost surreal.
He's got a lot of energy, too, man.
So much energy.
It's crazy.
He has two trailer trucks that he brings with him
that are just gym equipment.
Wow.
Everywhere they go, two big-ass trailer trucks
just filled with gym equipment.
They say he works out seven days a week.
That's awesome.
And he's 180,000 years old.
He's still up there.
And then Keith Richards, opposite approach.
Whiskey, cocaine, LSD.
No problems.
Still there, too.
So it's like, find something you love and stick with it.
I know.
It's so funny.
It makes me think of, like,
we went out with Willie a few times,
and Willie's got, like most artists,
he's got, like, 18 tractor trailers back there.
But, like, I don't know if you've been to a Willie Nelson show recently.
It's like, there's nothing on the stage.
I'm like, what's in all these fucking trucks?
I never really got to the bottom of that.
But there's, like, seven or eight truck drivers back there.
It's all weed.
It must be all weed or something.
You go in, there's all grow lights and plants and shit.
He's got that drink that they sell.
Oh, yeah.
He's got that weed drink.
Willie's remedy.
Yeah.
And Ron White brought some to the green room of the comedy mothership.
And someone was saying, oh, you can't get it.
That's not real.
I'm like, it's real as fuck, dude.
That stuff's very legit.
It's real.
Yeah.
It's very, I don't know what the rules are, the laws are.
It feels like it's starting to become, like, a gray area.
It should be, I mean, they just made it Schedule 3, okay?
So, what that means is, and, I mean, it's a great step in the right direction.
I'm very happy that the president did that.
It really should be regulated the same way alcohol is.
It should be for adult use, 21 and older.
It shouldn't be, maybe, I wonder what the issue, well, I'm sure there's a bunch
of issues, right?
There's, like, lobbies that are trying to keep it illegal.
Like, there's the alcohol lobby that doesn't want it legal because it cuts down
on alcohol sales.
And I know they lobby to try to make sure those laws stay in place.
And then, unfortunately, you have prison guard unions that lobby for it, which
is fucked, right?
They want to keep their job.
And so, the way they keep their job is to keep people locked up.
And the way they keep people locked up is keep laws that don't make sense.
It's fucked up.
Fucked up.
That's an evil fucking, it just doesn't make any sense.
If you can buy alcohol, you should be able, like, I'm not saying you should
drink alcohol.
You don't drink alcohol anymore.
Like I said, I took months off.
It's like, you should have some self-control.
And I know some people don't, but get your shit together.
You should, but other people are fine with alcohol.
They go to the bar, have a drink or two, go home, go out to dinner, have a
drink, go at home,
have a drink while they're watching TV, and they're fine.
It should be a personal choice.
No adult should be able to tell you what you can and can't do and be able to
lock you up
in a fucking cage if you don't listen.
That's nuts.
And in a free country, and this country is as free as it gets in this world,
there's no
way weed should be illegal.
It should be regulated, and it should be only for people that are adults, where,
you know,
you have to be 21 to be able to buy it.
Look, it's never stopped kids from getting alcohol.
They still get alcohol.
It's not stopping kids right now from getting weed.
They can still get weed.
But if it was legal and regulated, first of all, we'd get taxes from it, and
that would
be huge for every state.
You'd get a ton of tax money that you're not getting right now.
And also, you would keep people from getting locked up for their own personal
choices,
which is just insane.
Yeah.
I mean, not a lot of people get locked up for personal use these days.
That's pretty rare.
But there's still, there's just way too many laws.
Yeah.
I mean, it's interesting, too.
Like, if you have, like, CBD flour, technically that's legal.
Yes.
So, like, if you just put some of your cannabis in a CBD container, like, are
there
ways to, like, test that on the side of the road?
Like, if you get pulled and they search your car?
Not on the side of the road, but they could confiscate it and then test it, I
think.
But there's weird things about, like, legalization of, I was watching a YouTube
video about what
Texas's laws were.
And Texas's laws are the amount of THC by volume.
So, the thing about that is, if you get, like, gummies, like, a 10 milligram
gummy will pass
that by volume and be legal.
So, are you saying that people can take 10 milligram THC gummies and that's
legal?
Yeah.
Because they'll fuck you up.
Like, if you don't smoke weed, a 10 milligram THC gummy will have you going,
ooh, take two
of those and who knows what's going to happen to you.
I just watched this movie that a friend of mine was in this movie, Laney Wilson,
and we
watched the movie.
And I don't want to spoil the movie for anybody, but it turns out that the girl,
like, she went
to jail because she was impaired while driving, and she was impaired by weed
gummies.
And I was like, that's kind of okay.
Well, it depends on how much you took.
Yeah, but...
If you take 200 milligrams to get behind a wheel, you're not even exactly sure
what the
road is going on.
200 milligrams is a lot, yeah.
Right?
So, that's pretty impaired.
That's equivalent to, like, eight shots of whiskey and then getting in your
truck.
Yeah.
Right?
You're impaired.
I guess you're right.
I don't think you should drive on weed.
I don't.
I definitely don't think you should drive fucked up.
But it's, like, the same...
Like, I don't advocate drinking and driving either, but if you have, like, one
drink and
drive, like, you're going to feel, like, a little relaxed and lubricated, but I
don't
know how much you'll be...
And it also varies on who the person is.
If the person is used to drinking all the time, one drink is not going to do a
damn thing
to them.
But for some people, one drink will make you drive stupid.
You'll do stupid things.
Yeah.
It's all a personal responsibility thing.
That's the bottom line about all of it.
And, yeah, you shouldn't be out there drinking and driving.
You shouldn't be out there eating 500 milligram edibles and fucking driving in
a car.
No.
No.
I remember one time my drummer had this, like, THC spray.
Have you ever fucked with that?
Oh, yeah.
We had that back in California.
Yeah.
Like, breath spray.
Yeah.
And I was still drinking at the time.
And me and my wife were both just hammered.
And we were on this, a ferry, like, the tour bus goes on to the ferry, and the
ferry carries
you over from France to the UK.
And we were, like, sitting in the lounge area on the ferry, or lounge area on
the ferry, rather.
And he had this spray, and I was, like, it's not doing anything.
Oh, no.
Me and my wife both kept just spraying it.
No.
And I woke up in my bed, just, like, in a cartoon, just, like, completely
removed from reality.
He just, and, yeah, it was a bad, bad scene.
I remember one time I took a, they had these THC breath strips that they used
to sell.
And the problem with these things, and this is back in the pre-legalization
days of pre-2016
in California.
And so, each store you would get weed at, like, they would have medical stores.
So, you could go to a doctor and say, hey, doc, I got a headache.
And they go, you need medicine.
And they would write your prescription, and then you can go.
And, like, there's always reasons to have it, just like there's reasons to have
Tylenol.
Do you get a headache?
Yeah.
Well, then you need it.
Do you have a backache?
Like, yeah, well, then you need it.
So, you could get it pretty easy.
And they had these breath strips, and I took one, and I got on a plane.
And I closed my eyes when I was lying on the plane, and I was watching neon,
like, cartoon characters
that are made out of neon light, and they were having sex.
It was an orgy of, and I was just lying there with my eyes closed, watching
these cartoon neon characters fuck.
And they were fucking in, like, complete blackness, like, void.
So, it was just the colors of their weird bodies just banging each other, and
then they would shift shapes, and another one would pile on.
And they would, I was like, this is crazy.
It was very psychedelic.
It was almost like, but when I'd open my eyes, the world was normal.
It wasn't like I was, the world was wiggling, and I was just sitting, I didn't
have anything to do.
I was flying all the way to New York.
It was a six-hour flight.
By the time it landed, I had sobered up.
But I was like, this is great.
Like, how much is in these fucking things?
Because they're not making them in the same labs where they're making fucking
Tylenol.
You know, I mean, it's some hippie.
Some dude who's, like, pouring weed into a machine and can't remember whether
or not he put weed in there because he's high as fuck, so he adds double.
They're very inconsistent.
It's like the microdoses that I used to get in Macon, Georgia.
I was like, some of these are stronger than other ones.
And he's like, yeah.
So, depending on the day, my boy Hubble's like, you know, he's going to ride it
for whatever it is.
Well, that's why we need legalization regulation.
That's the beautiful thing about whiskey.
You get a glass of whiskey, you get a shot, you know exactly what that shot's
going to do.
The shots of whiskey have been having the same impact on human beings for
hundreds of fucking years.
You can quantify it.
Yeah, and that's how it should be with all these things.
But the problem is when they're outlawed, you know, some of them are, you know,
a glass of wine.
Some of them are fucking moonshine.
Like, you need regulation.
And it's, the idea that there's laws against people's personal choices is just
fucking stupid, man.
There's plenty of laws that are good.
Don't murder people.
Don't rob.
Don't rape.
Don't do this.
Don't do that.
That's great.
Don't vandalize.
Great.
Great laws.
Makes sense.
Better society.
Laws on personal choices, especially things that you might enjoy, like having a
joint with your wife, you know, after dinner and just sitting there and
watching Netflix together.
Like, the fucking armed thugs can burst into your house and take the joint away
from you.
Like, who are we protecting?
Who are we serving?
Who are we protecting and serving with that?
That's dumb.
Yeah.
It's just bad for society.
And it creates this business.
Once a business is established, the business of enforcement, once that business
is established, that business doesn't want to go away.
Because now you have a bunch of people whose jobs depend on enforcing laws and
enforcing these things that don't make any sense.
And they want to protect that because that's their livelihood.
So now you've got a quagmire.
Now you're in a fucking terrible situation.
There's no easy way out other than ripping the Band-Aid off and making it legal.
You're also propping up the cartels.
That's the other problem with it being completely illegal in this country federally.
It's like, well, guess what?
There's still a demand for it.
So legal companies that actually employ people and give the employees health
care and, you know, have rules and regulations.
Now, they're not making it.
So they're not growing it.
So instead, you have fucking cartels that are growing it in California on
public land because if you get caught, it's just a misdemeanor because it's
legal in California.
So literally, I think it's more than 80% of all the weed that's sold in the
United States that's illegal is grown in California on public lands by the cartel.
And they use toxic pesticides and herbicides.
They use all kinds of shit that you're not allowed to use in normal farming.
And, you know, the only reason why it exists is because we've made these stupid
fucking laws.
So now that it's Schedule 3, it's in the same category as, like, Tylenol with
codeine, which is not bad.
It's better, certainly better than Schedule 1, which is ridiculous.
So now, hopefully, once they do more testing and more studies, they can get to
a point where federally it's legal and regulated.
That would be the best case for everybody.
Just in the same category as alcohol.
Get all that tax money from it, and then don't make criminals out of American
citizens that just want to make personal choices.
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When did it get scheduled, Schedule 1?
Well, the whole Schedule 1 thing, this is what I talked about when I went to
the White House recently, which is a hilarious thing to say for a retard like
me.
That I helped get things scheduled.
I mean, when it all goes down in the history books, they attach my name to this,
it's going to be really confusing.
They're going to be like, fucking that guy?
What?
How?
What the fuck happened?
So when, in 1970, the Richard Nixon administration passed the Controlled Substances
Act, and it made DMT, psilocybin, LSD, all these different things, it made them
Schedule 1.
So the idea is that there was no benefit, including Ibogaine, which is crazy,
which means it has no medical benefit and harmful and addictive, all these
different qualities that they attach to it.
But the only reason they did that was to target the civil rights movement, the
civil rights movement and the anti-war movement.
That's what they were doing.
They didn't like the fact that these people were causing trouble, and then they
were organizing, you know, marches and doing all these different things that
were disrupting the government.
And there was also this movement where people were like, why are we living the
way we're living?
Like, this was the 60s.
Like, why are we doing what we're doing?
Like, well, I don't want to be like my parents.
They're not happy.
You know, I want to live a life that's, like, freer.
I want to be filled with love and joy, and I want to, you know, have a good
time and follow the Grateful Dead around.
Like, so a lot of people in government were very concerned with this new
movement.
And if you go and, like, music is a great example.
Like, if you look at the music of the 1950s, and then you look at the music of
the 1960s, like, what the fuck happened?
Yeah.
Like, if you look at the music of 2016 and the music of 2026, not much
difference.
Right.
Right?
It's all great.
It's all, but it's like, it's not, there's not some revolutionary, crazy new
change, but you saw that from 1959 to 1969.
There is a radical difference, a radical difference.
1950, you know, you got, like, you go from Buddy Holly to Jimi Hendrix.
You're like, okay, what the fuck happened?
Something crazy must have happened.
And it's drugs.
It's psychedelic drugs.
It's like the stone dape theory in, you know, our modern society.
Exactly.
To be able to see it.
Exactly.
And this terrified the administration.
And they were really worried that they were going to completely lose control of
the country.
And so, they passed this Controlled Substances Act.
And that happened in 1970.
And from that time on, we've been fucked.
You know, for 56 fucking years, we've been under the grip of this stupid
fucking law that was passed by the Nixon administration.
It didn't make any sense.
Some of the drugs that they added to aren't even psychoactive.
They just threw a bunch of stuff in there.
And they missed a bunch of potent ones.
Yeah.
They missed 5-methoxy DMT.
They missed 5-MeO DMT, which is one of the most potent psychedelics, if not the
most potent psychedelic.
You used to be able to buy that online.
Oh, wow.
Dude, there was a company that you could order from, and they would send you a
fucking jug of it as big as this.
Now, the amount that gets you blasted into the center of the universe and
introduces you to God is, like, the size that goes on your pinky.
Yeah.
Like, your pinky nail.
Like, that amount.
You smoke that, you'll see God.
Wow.
And you could just buy a fucking jar of it online.
There was a company called the American Chemical Company.
American Chemical Company or American Chemical Corporation.
And you used to be able to just buy 5-methoxy DMT, and they would just send it
to you, like a jar of vitamins.
Wow.
And then you could go to head shops and buy salvia.
Oh, yeah.
So, salvia is a fucking insanely potent psychedelic, which, by the way, is also
sage.
Like, sage is the same family, the same genus as salvia.
So, like, think about it, sage, meaning wise, like an old sage.
Yeah.
And meanwhile, that is one of the most potent psychedelics in the world.
Wow.
And so kids were going to head shops and buying salvia.
I don't know if they've made that illegal now.
They probably have, right?
Is salvia illegal now?
I think, uh, I don't know.
So, Ari Shafir on Brian Redband's podcast, do you know this story?
No.
Okay.
Ari Shafir went on Brian Redband's podcast and took a giant hit of salvia and
went under for, like, 10 minutes.
And when he came back, he said that he had lived six months under the water
with, like, with an entire different community of human beings under the water.
Had relationships.
Had a job.
Like, had a six-month experience and then came back in that 10 minutes.
And he was so confused.
He was so baffled.
He's like, I had a life under there.
I had a girlfriend.
I had friends.
He goes, I had all these experiences.
No shit.
Yeah.
Ari's crazy, man.
He's crazy.
He's fun.
He came out to my show in New York.
He's the man.
He is the man.
But, I mean, that's how potent this fucking salvia stuff is.
By the way, a lady had a very similar experience recently who went into a coma.
So, she was in a coma for an extended period of time.
I want to say it was, like, a few months.
And when she came out, she had a whole life that she said.
She had triplets.
And she had, like, she was married, all these different things.
Here's a story.
She asked for her triplets after waking up from a coma.
Doctors say they never existed.
When she woke from a coma, first thing she did was ask for her three daughters.
Medical staff was stunned.
The response shattered her entire world.
Just like that, the children she had nursed, watched grow, and deeply cared for
over seven years were gone.
So, she was placed in a medically induced coma for three weeks.
And what followed was a dream of a lifetime, quite literally.
She was obviously not aware that she was in a coma.
Instead, she slipped into a dream, and a lifetime unfolded before her eyes.
Talking to the outlet, the teen recalled having extremely intense dreams and
nightmares.
She was not aware that she was in a coma at the time.
So, those dreams became her reality.
So, she became a mother.
She said it felt so real.
She felt the physical and emotional pain throughout the hallucination.
I could feel so many things.
When I dreamed about giving birth, I felt the stress.
I also felt a lot of pain in this dream.
I gave birth to triplets, who I named Mila, Miles, and Miley.
Miley, Miley died shortly after birth.
I felt so awful, overwhelmed with sadness and guilt, she recalled.
She remembers the first skin-to-skin contact that she had with her babies.
It was incredible.
I felt an overwhelming wave of love, she added.
In her dreams, she lived for seven years and watched her daughters grow up.
Each had their own personalities.
One was quite shy.
The other was a bundle of energy.
I remember walks, meals we shared, and bedtime stories.
She loved them with all her heart.
And then she woke up from the coma and was told that her children never existed.
That's when they told me they didn't exist.
I was in shock.
I was so convinced that it was real that the time I saw my parents again, I
told them they were grandparents.
Whoa.
That's crazy, man.
It makes you wonder, what is reality?
What is this thing that we're currently experiencing?
Yeah.
And we're currently experiencing this thing, but what is this?
Is this everything?
Is this the whole thing?
Or is this like one channel on an infinite radio?
And just while we're on that channel, we think this is the radio.
Right.
Well, maybe when you go to sleep, maybe that's just as real as being awake.
It's a heavy thought.
But the idea that you just shut off every night is bananas.
Yeah.
We look forward to it.
Oh, can't wait to just go away.
Go away from you.
Can't wait to not exist.
And if you don't, like, if I don't get enough sleep, I'm like, whatever happens
during the dream time, the sleep time, the recovery, I feel it.
My waking life, like, I haven't done what I'm supposed to do by sleeping for an
extended period of time.
So this reality is compromised.
This reality, I'm dumber.
My memory sucks.
I'm more tired.
I don't have any energy.
I can't wait to go to sleep.
Can't wait to shut off so I can pay back the void, pay back the void, the time
I owe into the dreamland of bizarre dreams.
Yeah.
And just the symbolism of dreams, too.
I've been having a lot of crazy dreams lately.
Like what?
I dream about snakes a lot, which is a good sign.
Is it?
Yeah.
Dreaming about snakes evidently just represents, like, shedding your skin,
going into something new, you know, growing.
Or you're surrounded by people who want to get you.
Or maybe that.
Yeah.
Which both can be true.
You know the music business.
Yeah.
There's a lot of snakes.
Isn't it every business, though?
Yeah, I mean, just the idea, like, the business side is just so in contrast to,
like, the artistic sensibility, you know?
An artist is supposed to be, not supposed to be, but just, like, psychological.
Our makeup is more just, like, open and just more just, like, giving and
wanting to share your craft with somebody and more emotional, you know?
Yeah.
And then having to be, like, a shark and having to think, like, these snakes.
Contracts.
Yeah.
Sign the dotted line, Marcus.
You're going to make so much money, Marcus.
It's only seven years.
It's just seven years.
With an extension.
With options.
With options.
I was about to say.
You'll be free.
Don't worry about these songwrites.
Yeah.
You'll have other songs in the future.
Right.
That will be even better.
Bet on yourself, Marcus.
Take the money.
Don't you want a big house?
Don't you want a fancy car?
You need a Rolex.
Have you ever seen Late Night with the Devil?
Uh, yes.
That was fucking good.
Yeah, that's the talk show?
Yeah.
Yeah, that is great, man.
Who made that?
That's a good question.
That's a really good movie, man.
We watched it on the bus one night.
I was like, whoa.
That was like 2019 or something?
It was heavy.
Yeah.
This was, oh, 2024.
Oh, it's an Australian movie.
Jack Delroy, the host of a failing, it's in 1977, Jack Delroy, the host of a
failing late
night show, decides to film a Halloween special.
However, the broadcast takes a dark turn, unleashing evil into the nation's
living rooms.
Yeah, it's a dope movie.
It was really fun.
It was good.
It's fucking scary as shit, too.
It was scary.
Yeah, it was good.
Bro, you know what's fucking scary as shit and really good?
That I just found out about from my daughter.
There's a new show called, well, it's not even new.
It's like four seasons.
It's called From.
From?
It's on Apple TV.
I don't know if it's an Apple show, but it's on Apple TV.
It's with the dude from Lost, one of the dads from Lost.
Harold Perrineau.
Lost was a good funny show.
He's been in a lot of things.
He's great.
And the show is fucking terrifying.
It's very original and very weird.
So it came out in 2022.
Interesting.
This season premiered on Epix.
Oh, okay.
What's it on now?
Is it just on Apple TV?
Release, Epix, MGM+, yeah.
So it says in 2018, YouTube Red.
Remember we were talking about YouTube Red?
Canada and Italy, it's on Paramount+.
India, it's on Amazon Prime.
Oh, it's on all over the place.
Huh.
Where MGM Plus is.
So it appeared on Epix.
I don't even know what MGM Plus is.
Maybe that's just the company that's the production company.
So in 2026, they renewed the series for a fifth and final season.
It's fucking good, man.
It's good and it's really scary.
It's really scary and fucking creepy and horrific.
It's about these people that are stuck in this town that doesn't make any sense.
Like, the town doesn't make any sense.
And you can't get out of the town.
And at nighttime, people come out of the woods.
They're not people.
And they're like these monsters.
And if you let them into your house, you can't let them into your house.
But if you let them into your house, they butcher you and tear you apart.
And people, they try to trick you into letting them into your house.
Like, I'm not doing it justice.
It sounds stupid.
But...
Here's the pitch.
But it's really scary, man.
It's really scary and really creepy to the point where I'm watching and I get
anxiety.
And I don't like watching shit like that before I go to bed.
Because then I get weird dreams and I start getting...
Because it's like children are in trouble in it.
I'm a father and when I see children in trouble, I fucking freak out.
You know, there's part of you like the sheepdog in you.
Right.
So it's a good show, though.
My wife gets on to me.
I like...
It's like Forensic Files.
Oh!
It puts me out.
I love it.
You like that before you go to bed?
I don't know why.
That's crazy.
That's my comfort.
How people murdered people?
Yeah.
I remember that show on HBO, The Autopsy Show?
That was like one of the first ones.
Okay.
Do you know that show?
The Autopsy one.
It was this guy, Dr. Michael Badden.
And what he was, it was a forensic scientist that would catch people that had
murdered people
and got away with it.
They would exhume bodies and find things.
And it was all these different cases of where someone had gotten away with
murder, but then
they discovered how they did it.
It was very, very interesting.
Wow.
Because people are fucking weird, man.
Like, you know, a lot of like wives poisoning their husbands.
Like, multiple husbands died of similar ways.
Yep.
Nurses that poisoned the people under their care.
There's some fucked up people out there.
There's some fucked up people out there, man.
And the crazy thing is, they get away with it.
That's the crazy thing is, for every one that Michael Badden catches, how many
of them get
away with it?
Yep.
Like, what percentages of murders in America go unsolved?
Let's put this into perplexity.
Our AI sponsor and find out what the deal, what do you think it is?
What percentage of murders go unsolved in America?
Oh, that's a good question.
Take a guess.
50, 60 percent.
Whoa.
But I don't know how you would quantify it.
I guess you'd find out.
Well, someone gets murdered and they don't catch anybody.
Oh, right, right.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's half.
Wow.
So you're saying there's a chance.
So you're saying there's a chance.
Approximately 40 to 50 percent of murders in the United States go unsolved.
It means that roughly half of all homicide cases do not result in arrest or
resolution.
So I was talking to somebody and someone who lives in their community got
arrested because
the wife went missing and they got the wife's DNA from this guy's chainsaw.
They have no body.
They have no evidence other than there's some DNA on his chainsaw.
And, you know, he's playing stupid.
So he's in jail now.
But everybody that knows him and like like these these friends of mine, they
know the family.
They knew him.
They knew her.
Oh, shit.
And he's just in jail and they don't know if they have enough evidence to convict
him.
And so he's been in jail for a while now and they're trying to gather enough
evidence for trial.
But all they have is like DNA.
I don't even know what that means.
Like how much DNA?
Like did he clean the chainsaw and not do a good job?
I don't know what that means.
But was she like out like trimming edges?
Who knows?
That's the thing.
It's like you could use a chainsaw and accidentally scratch yourself.
Like you don't even have to cut yourself.
It doesn't even have to be on.
Like if you're moving, if you're, you know, taking a chain, I don't know why
the wife would
be taking a chainsaw out into the, I mean, some women are capable and they do
it.
My wife, you know, she would.
Accidentally scraped your arm with this chainsaw and they went over every blade
with a swab.
They probably could find your DNA and go, oh my God, you did it.
Yep.
I don't know.
I don't know what happened.
But apparently these people that I know believe that the husband chopped this
lady up.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
They think he did it.
They're fighting a lot.
I remember when I was a kid, my sister used to.
And like Shane's actually got a really funny bit about how diabolical older
sisters are
and just, my sister used to say, I hope you go to jail for something you didn't
do.
Whoa.
I hope you get wrongfully convicted for something and you're in jail forever.
Jesus Christ.
That's a terrible thing to say to somebody.
What did you do to her to make her say that to you?
Who fucking knows?
That's so dark.
I hope you go to jail for something you didn't do is so evil.
Wow.
We're very close now.
Are you?
Oh, yeah.
Well, she was a kid.
We were kids.
How old was she when she did that?
When she said that?
She's two years older than me, so she must have been like nine or ten.
Oh.
But.
People say things.
Kid stuff.
And nine or ten.
They're just being kids.
Yep.
That's a diabolical mind, though.
Like, that's how you want someone to suffer.
You want someone to emotionally suffer for something they didn't do forever.
Her and a neighbor boy, it was a vacant house across from mine, and they, like,
locked me
in the back fence, and my sister was like, this is where you live now.
Whoa.
They were like, unless you break that window.
And I was like, I don't want to break the window.
And, like, sure enough, like, they said, well, we're not letting you out of
this gate.
And, like, I probably could have waited it out, but I was, like, five or six.
So I just said, all right.
So I took a brick to the window, and they're like, well, we're going to go tell
on you now.
I was like, wow.
Really fucked up.
What the fuck does she do now?
My sister is actually, she's a badass, man.
She drives for the Department of Transportation.
She's got her CDL.
She's awesome.
Sounds like she has some devious thoughts in her mind.
She's, yeah.
Sounds like she should write books.
I know.
She's so smart.
That sounds very creative.
You know?
Like, she's manipulating a five-year-old into breaking a window so she could
tell on him.
But as a seven-year-old.
Yeah.
No, she's awesome.
But actually, I had a good friend I told that story to, and she loved it so
much, she got
me a welcome mat from my house that said, this is where you live now.
That's fucked up, man.
I know.
Where did she learn that kind of behavior?
Probably my mom.
Oh, was your mom like that?
My mom was pretty wild, yeah.
Yeah?
Mm-hmm.
Oy.
Yeah.
I had an interesting upbringing.
Most artists do.
Especially most interesting artists.
I don't know a lot of interesting artists that say, like, my childhood was
perfect.
It was amazing.
There was so much love, and everybody was really supportive and understanding.
Yeah.
We talked a lot about stuff.
Yep.
Spoke about our feelings, mostly.
Yeah.
Around the dinner table.
No, there's always some sort of element of psychological torture involved.
Or some kind of abandonment or some kind of-
Yeah.
Sometimes, yeah.
Tetchy uncle, whatever it is.
Yep, yep.
Something.
Ignoring you.
Yeah.
And just not making you a priority, making you not feel special, or making you
feel like
you're a burden.
Mm-hmm.
It's something that causes you to, like, want exorbitant amounts of attention
from strangers.
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But look, that's where the great stuff comes from, which is really wild.
Like, there's this concept that you cannot have good without evil.
Mm-hmm.
And I think there's something to that.
I think it's just part of the human condition, for whatever reason.
You don't appreciate good unless you experience bad, which is why rich kids are
fucked.
You grow up rich with everything you've ever wanted.
There's no struggle.
It's so difficult for those people to ever be exceptional.
Right.
Because they don't have the motivation.
They don't have that.
They haven't experienced the bad.
Not in that way.
Like, I remember I went on a hunting trip with my friend Steve Rinella and
Brian Callan.
We went to Alaska, and it rained every day.
It rained for, like, six days in a row.
We're soaking wet.
And we came back to L.A., and it was sunny, and I was driving my car.
And I had a call with my friend Steve, and I said, dude, I have never been
happier.
The sun hits my face.
I'm so appreciative.
I'm so happy.
And I've never felt like this.
Like, it's always like this in L.A.
Yeah.
But it never meant anything to me.
It was just, yep, another day in L.A., got to go to work.
But this one day, I was, like, just filled with gratitude, and I was so happy.
The sun on my face felt so good and warm.
And I realized, like, oh, you have to suffer in order to really appreciate the
good.
Like, if it's just all good, you're not going to appreciate it.
You don't, you need evil people so that you really appreciate the people that
are beautiful and that you love.
Right.
You need people that suck so you appreciate people that are kind.
Yeah.
You know, you need people that are mean so you appreciate the ones that are
nice.
Yeah.
Just people that are on the level, just people that are, like, no agenda, just
kind people.
And it is that duality that kind of gives you perspective.
That's what I meditate on every day is perspective.
That's why I wonder about the music business and then even the comedy business.
I think kind of any business.
I'm sure it's the same with the music, rather, movie-making business as well.
It's like you almost need these rotten vampire cunts that are, you know what I
mean?
It's like, so you-
Another punk band.
But so that, like, when you see fellow musicians that you love, like, you give
them a hug, like, you embrace each other, like, oh, we're cool.
Like, you know what I mean?
It's like, we're together now.
It's all right.
We're okay.
It's trauma bonding.
Yeah.
We're away from the cunts.
Yeah.
We're away from the vampire cunts.
It's like my boy Charlie Crockett, you know, Charlie always says, like, you can
do what they do, but they can't do what you do.
Charlie's great.
He's the fucking man.
He's an interesting dude, too.
Very interesting dude.
Very, you know, interesting life.
Like, the life that that guy had and playing street music for so long and
finally getting discovered.
Very.
Like, again, but that's how you get a person like that.
When you talked about his childhood, how fucked up it was, and crazy, he was
basically just on his own from the time he was a teenager.
Like, running around, just singing songs.
Yep.
You know, like, that's how you get a person like that.
Yeah, you can't create a Charlie Crockett in a lab.
No, or a Jelly Roll.
You don't create those in a lab.
They've got to go to jail first.
You know what I mean?
But it's like, I mean, Jelly's like one of the most beautiful people I've ever
met in my life.
He's one of the nicest, sweetest, kindest, warm, affectionate people.
He hugs everybody, tells everybody he loves them, and he means it.
And it's because he's been through hell, you know?
And that's how you make a person like that.
Jelly's in, like, a constant state of, like, when you run into somebody after
they've had an ayahuasca experience.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
He has this constant, like, gratitude.
Yes.
That I feel like kind of fades even with people who have, like, ayahuasca
journeys or experiences.
Yeah.
You know, he's just, I don't know, there's something really pure to that.
Yeah, he's maintained it, especially now that he's on this, like, health
journey.
I think that sometimes the momentum of life takes over, and you kind of forget
those beautiful moments.
You're grounded in these moments where you realize, like, God, I'm so lucky to
have a beautiful family that I love and friends that I love and be able to do
what I do for a living.
God, I'm so lucky.
And that feeling, like, sometimes it goes away because you're dealing with this
and that and contracts and fucking then the New York Times wrote a hit piece on
you.
Oh, shit.
And you forget.
You lose your perspective.
But I almost feel like you need all those other shitty elements to just
reinforce the good elements.
That there's this constant sort of mechanism that's going on where there's this
constant process of pros and cons, of negatives and positives.
And they're duking it out to see who rises.
And the more the negative comes at you, the more it has this creative desire
inside of you to excel with your music or your art or whatever it is that you
do.
To just push past it.
I mean, think about some of the great songs that people have written just about
the struggles that they've gone through, just even in the music business.
You know?
Yeah.
Like Leonard Skinner, working for MCA.
You know, there's a lot of those songs like that.
It's like people just want to tell you what the fuck they've been through.
Yeah.
Le Chic, Freak Out.
What's that about?
They weren't allowed to get into Studio 54.
They wouldn't let them in.
And the song was originally written as, fuck you.
You know?
Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
Fuck you.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Instead it's Freak Out?
Yeah.
And that ended up being a major hit.
That was because they couldn't get into a club?
Yeah.
That's pretty crazy.
Pretty crazy.
Yeah.
Yep.
But it is just about threading that needle of, like, wanting more for yourself,
but for
the right reasons.
And that's something that I think about every day.
It's just like having a virtuous reason to want more, you know?
Not just for the sake of having it or for hoarding wealth or anything like that.
It's like, I want to work to where I can get to a place where, you know, my
wife and
I can have our own bus and raise kids on the road, you know?
But you can't do that unless you have a certain profit margin on the road, you
know?
So I'm always kind of trying to think of, like, virtuous causes to want more,
you know?
Because in reality, you know, I should be grateful for everything that I do
have, but also speaking
to that, you know, and trying to meditate on the things that I'm grateful for
every day.
That's a good perspective.
I think people get trapped in working towards a result instead of thinking
about the process.
Right.
I try to be process-oriented.
I try to, like, think about whatever I'm doing, just try to be better at it and
do a better
job at it.
And I think the other stuff sort of takes care of itself.
If you have the right people.
And that's where the evil cunt vampires come in.
Because they'll steal all that goodwill.
Like, if you leave the door open, like on that TV show, on From, you let them
in.
Yep.
They'll fucking tear you apart.
They'll tear you up.
Yeah.
Just, and it's hard because you don't want to become jaded.
Right.
You don't want to become, like, I feel like I meet a lot of people out there
who, like,
they're open and they're kind, but they're not interested in making any new
friends, you
know?
Right.
It's like they have their circle.
And on one hand, I kind of understand that.
I get that, you know?
But it's hard.
You know, you've got to maintain a certain level of perspective not to become,
like, angry.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's hard.
And it's hard to know who you can let into your circle, too.
Like, you've got to give people a stress test.
You know what I mean?
Yep.
It's almost like you have to give them a baggie and then have a fake cop grab
them and say,
where'd you get?
Marcus King gave it to me.
Oh, gotcha, bitch.
I ran into this guy recently.
And basically what happened was, like,
I was on Jam Cruise years ago and I was super fucked up and I was supposed to
sit in with
this band called Naughty Professor from New Orleans.
And they're like...
That's a great name.
They're so good.
And they're just outrageously talented musicians.
And I had gone out on an adventure that morning on a catamaran.
I didn't know what the fuck a catamaran was.
I didn't know if it was land, air or sea vessel, right?
So we go out there.
Turns out it's a boat.
And we go, like, snorkeling in the Cayman Islands.
And we're just, like, looking at all the fish.
And, like, my girlfriend at the time and a bass player friend of mine from a
band called
Lettuce, his name's Jesus.
So out there with my girlfriend at the time.
His name is Jesus?
Yeah.
Not Jesus?
Well, his name's Eric, but he goes by Jesus.
Oh, boy, Eric.
Oh, boy.
How did Eric get in your circle?
I don't think it's a messiah complex or anything.
I think it's just a nickname that stuck.
But they were tripping on acid and I was drunk on rum and beer.
And just out there waiting.
And, like, when we came up for air, the boat had...
Or we had drifted quite a ways from the boat.
And, like, we couldn't get their attention.
And, like, the waves started crashing and, like, a storm started rolling in.
Oh, fuck.
Like, three waves.
And, like, you know, I'm not the strongest swimmer, you know, but we were
basically, you
know, we were treading water out there for, like, 40 minutes.
Holy shit, dude.
Yeah, we were gonna drown.
And finally, the dude jumped off the boat and came out there.
And then he was, like, yelling at me because I didn't have flippers on.
So I was just out there with just my shorts on and some goggles.
And he signaled for the boat to come around and they pulled us up out of the
water.
So after that, we were celebrating our life, you know.
So I got completely hammered.
And then I was on the boat.
And I was like, well, I need a pick-me-up, you know, because I got to sit in
with these
guys.
And they're, like, college-educated, like, jazz musicians.
So this guy comes over.
He's like, hey, man, you need a Jatooski?
And I was like, yeah, hook me up.
And he pulled out a spoon and he digs it down in the bag.
And I go to take it.
And it was, like, a small little mountain.
I was like, give me a little more.
And he gave me some more.
And I'm, big snort.
My whole face went numb.
And I was like, and it stung.
And I was like, whoa, what the fuck was that?
And he was like, oh, it's just a little blow.
And I was like, no, it wasn't.
And, like, he said, yeah, it was.
And I grabbed him by the shirt and I said, what the fuck did you give me,
motherfucker?
And he looked at his buddy.
Like, well, I had him, you know, like this.
And he said, hey, what bag did you give me, bro?
And he was like, the blue one.
And he's like, oh, no.
And he looked at me and I was like, what was it?
And he was like, it's ketamine.
So I went totally the wrong direction.
But I ran into that guy at the Grand Ole Opry.
And he came into my dressing room and was like, hey, remember me?
Wrong bag.
I was like, yeah, I remember you.
Yeah, I don't like you.
Yeah, you kind of put me in a weird spot.
What was that like, taking ketamine after you almost died?
Man, it was heavy, you know?
I basically, like, from what I recall, like, I became part of the boat.
Yeah, that's how I remember it.
Like, my feet were, like, in the deck, you know?
And, like, I was moving the whole boat with every step that I took.
That's what I remember.
Whoa.
Yeah.
But there was this one guy that kept trying to get me to come play a festival
in, like, New Mexico.
And I kind of put him off the whole week.
And then he ran into me.
And, like, I just remember his eyes getting big like saucers.
I don't know what I said to him, but it was some crazy shit.
Or it wasn't English at all, probably.
Ketamine talk.
Ketamine's a weird one, man.
Yeah.
Because there's a lot of people that are doing that right now for therapy.
Yeah.
Like, Neil Brennan, a comedian, the co-creator of The Chappelle Show, he was
the first person to tell me about it.
Because Neil's had depression problems most of his life.
And we were in L.A., and he said, we were in the hallway of the comedy store.
He goes, I've been doing ketamine therapy for depression.
And I go, how's that working out?
Is it good?
He goes, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But I didn't know what to expect.
He goes, I thought, oh, you know, it's in a doctor's office.
It's probably going to be just, I'm probably just going to close my eyes and I'll
feel.
He goes, no.
He goes, it's fucking a full-blown trip.
He goes, tripping balls in a doctor's office is fucking strange.
I bet.
He said it worked, though, for a little while.
Like, he's done a bunch of different things.
He did a ton of ayahuasca.
He's done a bunch of ketamine.
He did, like, magnets on his brain, I think.
He's done, like, a bunch of different things to try to, like, rewire the way
his brain works.
Yeah.
Like, whatever it is.
That's a journey I'm on, you know.
I'm on antidepressants, and I want to get off them.
Which ones are you on?
I'm on Cymbalta.
What does that one do?
Well...
Is it an SSRI?
Yeah.
So, basically, just kind of a, it's for a chemical imbalance, you know.
But, like, the best work that I did to combat my depression and anxiety and
stuff was microdosing, you know, mushrooms.
Like, that's, that's the most progress that I'd seen in my life.
And, um, I'm going to figure out some kind of strategy because, you know, like,
being on antidepressants and them telling you, like, whoa, don't just stop
taking them all at once.
Or, you know, you could have seizures and shit.
I'm like, I don't like that.
I don't want to be, like, you know, enslaved by a drug, by a pharmaceutical
drug, you know.
Yeah.
And it's like, also, like, now you just take this the rest of your life.
It's like, what's the end result here?
Yeah, Theo Vaughn's going through the exact same thing.
And last time I was on the podcast, he was explaining it to me.
It freaks me out because I know Theo's had conversations before, like, even
publicly.
He had a Netflix taping and it didn't go well.
It was like they actually never, they shelved it.
They never used it.
And, you know, there was all these stories from people that were there saying
he bombed.
I think he just had kind of a breakdown.
And when he was talking to the crowd and there's a video of it, we said, you
know, the people were shaking.
Hey, we still love you.
He goes, thank you.
Look, I'm just, I'm trying not to take my own life.
That's what I'm trying to do right now.
And, like, you hear stuff like that and you just go, like, oh, Jesus Christ.
I've known too many people that I didn't think were going to kill themselves
and then did.
And then he goes down these spirals where he starts talking about world events
and freaking out.
I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ.
Like, I got to help this dude.
And so I send him things about people getting off of them.
And apparently there's some doctors that specialize in getting people off of
them.
But here's the thing about that chemical imbalance thing.
That's not real.
They used to think that that was what these things do, that they treated a
chemical imbalance.
But then recently studies have shown that that is not what they do.
They don't exactly know what they do.
And they kind of numb you in some sort of a way that helps some people.
And I've had some friends, and I don't want to make any blanket statements
because I've had some friends that were suicidal.
Ari is one of them.
And he got on SSRIs and it helped him.
He tried a bunch of different ones, found one that worked, got on track.
And then his career started taking off.
And then as his career started taking off, he started feeling much better.
He was on a good, positive path in his life.
And then he slowly weaned himself off of those.
And now he's off of them.
So I think that might have saved his life.
I also know other people that have been on those things and taken their own
lives.
So I don't know.
Because that's part of one of the side effects is suicidal ideation.
It's one of the side effects.
But see if you can find anything about the chemical imbalance not being true.
The chemical imbalance reason for taking SSRIs.
They've measured, like, levels of dopamine and serotonin in people that take.
It's not what it's doing.
And they don't even exactly know why it works.
And it's a huge business.
That's part of the problem.
And it's also part of the problem that these doctors are incentivized to
prescribe people these things.
I had a friend that went to a psychiatrist and was talking about their life and
things not doing well.
And immediately the doctor tried to prescribe him SSRIs right away.
Like, right away.
Here's something that you're never going to get off.
I'm going to give it to you right away.
First meeting.
And he was like, well, I don't mean, shouldn't I, like, try exercise?
Shouldn't I try a diet?
Shouldn't I try just drinking water?
And, you know, like, I read something about, like, magnesium and red light
therapy being far more effective than even SSRIs.
There is no good evidence for the simple chemical imbalance like low serotonin
that directly causes depression or automatically means someone should take an
SSRI.
But SSRIs do change brain chemistry in ways that can help some people.
But so for decades, depression was popularly explained as a serotonin imbalance
in the brain.
Large reviews of the research have not found convincing evidence that people
with depression have consistently low serotonin or a specific measurable
imbalance that explains their symptoms.
Experts now describe the chemical imbalance story as an oversimplified or
outdated way of explaining a much more complex condition.
And here's the other thing about depression.
It has to be connected to the state of your life.
Like, if you have a terrible job, you're in a bad relationship, you have
abusive parents, you know, and you live in a shitty neighborhood.
Why would you be happy?
Oh, I'm depressed.
Oh, you need a pill.
Do you?
Is that what you need?
Right.
Well, it's quite possible that you're eating processed foods and you have all
these other things that we talked about.
Shitty life, shitty house, shitty job, shitty neighborhood, shitty parents.
Maybe you just need to make your life positive.
Like, figure out a way to get your life in a positive direction.
They've shown that exercise is way more effective than antidepressants at
actually helping people with depression.
Just exercise.
Just fucking go on a nice long walk every day.
Do some cardio.
You know, take a fucking yoga class.
That's way better for people than these goddamn pills.
But these doctors are financially incentivized to prescribe these things.
And they prescribe them and hand them out like candy.
And, again, I think for some people it helps them.
And that's the issue, right?
I mean, if it wasn't a financial incentive, I think it would be like, take
these for six months, you'll be better.
You know?
Yeah.
It wouldn't be like, this is you now.
Even six months.
It's like, okay, how long does it take to get off them?
Right.
Because I know a guy who was on them and it took him a year and a half after he
got off of them before he felt normal again.
For a year and a half, he was fucked up.
Because he was on them for, I think he said he was on them for ten years.
And then for a year and a half, he got off of them.
And it just took that long before he finally, like, balanced the ship out.
Like, whatever waves he had to go through for a year and a half.
But he was like, whatever I'm doing, I am not going back on those goddamn pills.
So he wrote it out and came out on the other end.
It's fucked up, too, because it's hard to compare your experience to other
people because everybody's brain chemistry is different.
Yeah.
So you could have two people on the same medication, like you were, you know,
saying earlier.
Like, it's hard to even quantify.
Like, I even talked to my own sister or, like, other family members about, you
know, their depression and their, you know, mental health journeys.
And it's just, it's interesting to think, like, you could say, like, it's hard
to disprove it, you know what I mean?
Because somebody could be doing well on it.
But it's also, like, it takes two weeks for it to really get into your system.
And I had to try, like, three or four different ones before one really, I felt,
felt like me, you know?
Like, even at my grandmother's funeral, like, I just felt nothing.
I just felt numb.
And, like, I didn't notice it until I got into a situation where I was, like,
this woman raised me and I can't feel anything.
Wow.
And it wasn't until, like, a heavy moment like that that I was able to kind of
have that perspective of, like, I should be feeling something right now.
So I put those down.
And then it was, like, two weeks later, I was having dinner with somebody and,
like, this song came on that just brought all of it up.
And there was this melody, this Wayne Shorter melody that just uncorked
everything.
And I was just sobbing at the dinner table, you know?
Wow.
What did you feel like before you took them and what was wrong with the ones
that you didn't stick with?
Well, I don't know if it was a matter of, like, maybe the dosage was too high
and it was just kind of creating a block.
Because, like, you've got to feel some emotions, right?
So how did you feel before you were taking them?
Like, what was bothering you that you realized you needed to take something?
Well, I think a lot of it had to do with just, like, substance abuse.
But I was feeling really anxious and really suicidal and just really, really
depressed, you know?
And just this overwhelming sense of dread every day.
And just also just a lot of helplessness.
Like, just trying to go into different doctors and just, like, trying to figure
out, like, what the fuck is it that's going to finally, you know, take this
away?
But also realizing, like, I rely on that a little bit, you know, for what I do
for a living, you know?
So there's kind of that, you know.
Rely on the feelings of depression.
Like the pain, yeah.
All that, you know, for writing and for creating.
God, that's a fucking conundrum, ain't it?
Yeah, being fearful that it's going to take your drive away because you don't
have anything to create for.
No substance, you know?
So it's a, it is a strange battle.
It's one that I still kind of deal with, but I'm just in a much better spot on
the journey.
So which ones did you try and what was wrong with the ones that you tried?
They just numbed you up.
This was, like, six years ago, so, like, 2020.
I can't remember the name of the specific medication.
I'm sure I have an old bottle of it somewhere in my house.
But, yeah, I don't know.
But what did it do?
It just made you too numb?
It just made me feel numb.
And then when you found one that worked, what did that do differently?
So the one that I'm on now, I mean, like, if I go a day without it, like, I,
like, the withdrawal symptoms are, like, fairly severe.
Just, like, headaches and just, like, complete, like, body tingling sensations
and just, like, it's really scary stuff.
It's just, you know.
So I'm going to have to wean off of it slowly over time, like I already did.
Yeah.
I wonder if Ibogaine would help with that.
Well, I mean, you know, it's like I was saying, like, microdosing mushrooms was,
like, the first thing that I actually felt some kind of lasting result.
Like, now, like, when I get an anxiety attack or something, I can recognize it
as something just coming from an outside force, you know, an energy that's not
aligning with me.
And I can recognize it.
I can work through it.
Where, like, before, I would just get a little overwhelmed, you know.
But I think also just, like, not drinking and, like, having to socialize with
people and having to have a little exposure therapy to, like, social
interactions and life in general without just masking myself with drugs and
alcohol has helped a lot, too, in that growth.
So when you first started taking it, you, there's all the stuff that you're
doing in terms of, like, abusing alcohol and substances and that, which
definitely causes you to feel like shit and definitely causes a lot of people
to have, like, all sorts of angst and anxiety and just fucks with you.
This stuff alleviated that?
What, I'm on now?
Yeah.
Uh, I mean, you know, it has.
Kind of?
And I'm afraid of, like, you know, if I get off of it, are those emotions going
to come flooding back in, you know.
So did it stop those emotions?
It...
This was all, by the way, while you were drinking, right?
You're not drinking.
And how long has it been since you drank?
Like a year and a half.
Okay.
But, I mean, those emotions do come back every now and again.
Even while you're on the stuff?
Yeah.
But it significantly curbed them?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
But it's like, you know...
At what price?
I mean, I was talking to my boy, Ernest, about it because, you know, he's kind
of a kindred spirit.
And, like, you know, just talking about, like, I'll be working out and, like,
getting after it, feeling good, listening to the Stones or whatever.
And, like, I noticed, like, in my gym at my house, like, I guess they used to
have a punching bag hanging up there.
And just, like, you see something like that and you just take a mental note of,
like, that could probably hold my weight, you know?
It's just like these...
Oh, you mean to hang yourself?
Yeah.
Oh, Jesus.
Like these thoughts just kind of come, you know?
And it's...
I don't know where they come from.
They just...
They just pop in.
And as quick as they come, they go.
And this is before you've taken the medication?
No, I mean, this is like a month ago, you know?
Okay.
Did you have those thoughts before the medication?
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
So they're still there.
Yeah.
So whatever it's doing, it's doing a little bit?
I mean, it's got to be helping to a degree.
Do you think it is?
I think so.
But I think it's really just about, like, your will and, like, your mental...
Just your ability, just like we were talking about, like, with diets and stuff,
you know?
Like, does Ozempic help curb, you know, appetites?
But you could also just exercise and just have willpower.
And I think mental health can be of a similar thing.
One of the things that people are finding about Ozempic is it actually curbs
your desire to be in love, too.
Ugh.
Yeah.
That's a nasty thought.
Yeah.
You don't enjoy anything.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What I'm hearing about these SSRIs is, like, genitalia, like, paralyzed...
I saw that.
Yeah.
I saw that on Twitter.
Some lady was talking about her.
She got off of it and her clitoris is numb.
She can't have orgasms anymore.
That's fucked up.
Yeah.
If that ever happens, it's like, you know...
Well, the problem is I don't know if it comes back.
Yeah.
So you can't wait for it to happen and, like, which medications cause it to
happen.
Yeah.
If you do get off of it, have you talked to your doctor?
Like, what is the protocol?
Well, weaning off of it.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
My doctor always just says, like...
I don't know.
He just...
Every time I talk to my doctor, it's like, every few months we check in and he's
like, well,
yeah, how you feeling, you know, how you doing?
Uh, I'm like, well, I'm okay, you know, just kind of feels like the same.
Um, I kind of want to get off of him.
And he's like, well, you know, if you want to do that, like, you're going to
have to go
slowly over time.
But, uh, you know, are things good?
And I'm like, well, yeah, things are fine.
He's like, well, you don't really want to change things if they're good, right?
You know?
Ooh.
That kind of thing.
And you worry, what...
Yeah, I worry about what's going to happen if I...
You know?
What's that going to be like, getting off of him?
Yeah.
Because the thing about it is, like, I was talking about this guy that was on
him for
10 years.
Like, that year and a half was fucking rough.
Where he was experiencing all sorts of problems because his body was just kind
of in shock
that he'd been on SSRIs for a decade.
And then all of a sudden, he's off of him.
It's like...
Like, the way Theo described it is, like, the floor was missing.
Like, the floor fell out from under him.
Getting off him?
He got off him for a while and then got back on him.
He got off him about a year ago for a little while and then got back on him.
But he wants to get off him.
He just doesn't know what to do.
I mean, hell, it's like, it's literally a plot device, you know?
Like, the show The Ozarks, you know?
Like, the crazy brother.
He's pouring his medication down the drain.
Yep.
And he goes fucking nuts, you know?
It's like, somebody being off their medication is kind of a pejorative term,
right?
Yeah.
But I'm like, I kind of want to get off mine.
Well, it depends on what medication, right?
Some people are schizophrenic.
Yeah, if it's antipsychosis, I guess.
If you've got psychosis.
Do you exercise?
Yeah.
What do you do?
I usually do 20 minutes on the Peloton and then a different muscle group every
day.
Oh, that's good.
Anything cardio-wise is great for depression, supposedly.
And even weights.
Weights are supposedly really good for anxiety for some reason.
I've noticed.
Yeah.
There's a real definitive difference when I'm working out versus when I'm not.
Yeah.
Man.
So, like, do you have a strategy for when you're thinking about doing this or
how you're going to try to do this?
Well, I was thinking I'd probably do it when I had some time off, but I'm
working the rest of the year.
But honestly, man, being on the road is kind of my constant.
So, I think it's something that I could probably accomplish while I'm on the
road, but I'd have to have, like, a breakdown.
Yeah, fuck that.
You're in Nashville about to do a show, and you're like, I've got to cancel the
show.
Right.
Yeah.
So, it's hard to determine, you know.
It scares me, man, because, and again, it scares me because doctors incentivize
to keep you on them and promote them and get you to do them.
Also, and they've been prescribing them for people.
They don't want to ever think that they're doing something bad.
There's a justification process in there somewhere.
A hundred percent.
Justification process, financial incentives.
There's a lot going on there.
And then there's also this position that they're in of expertise where they're
explaining to you what you should and shouldn't do and how it works.
And when you're like, this is fucking up my whole life and I can't get off them.
They're like, oh, it's just why I slow down.
Like, isn't everything doing well?
Just keep on the same path, Marcus.
Everything's fine.
Marcus.
Bye.
Click.
Got a new patient calling.
Oh, hi, Jenner.
Do you?
Yeah.
It's very weird, man.
It's very weird that our society is so hypermedicated.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And injectables are the wave of the future.
Even like my boy Chevy that works for me, he used to work in pharmaceutical
sales.
And he's like, everything is injectables now because that's what's hot because
of like the Ozempic craze.
So like every medication is like peddling injectables because like the wave of
like peptides and Ozempic and all that kind of stuff.
Now it's like, it's trendy, which is really interesting to me.
That is weird.
Because I grew up with my dad having type 2 diabetes and my grandfather too.
And, you know, just seeing them inject like insulin and stuff, I was like, yuck.
Well, type 2 diabetes, the thing about that one is you can cure that.
Yep.
You just got to stop eating like a pig.
Which is crazy.
I know a bunch of people that have stopped themselves from having type 2
diabetes.
Yeah.
And that's a goal that I'm on is preventing myself from ever dealing with that.
Yeah.
I don't eat sugar or anything.
Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah.
I gave up sugar.
Well, again, the ketogenic diet is supposed to be good for depression too.
Do you take supplements?
Are you taking magnesium and multivitamins and all that jazz?
Oh, yeah.
That's good.
It seems like you're doing a lot of the right things, man.
Yeah, man, I'm, you know, I just, I don't want to be a prisoner to pills.
Yeah.
And I love my wife and I'm just excited to have some babies and just, I want to
get myself,
like her career is taking off and my career is going really well.
And like.
Does she take SSRIs?
No, that's good.
She's very anti, like any pharmaceuticals, which I really admire about her.
I was just reading something about SSRIs and the development of children,
children's brains
when women are pregnant and they're on SSRIs.
And apparently there's a bunch of issues.
Yeah.
I can see that.
I mean, look, man, there's millions of people on those things.
There's a giant business and they want to hide all the side effects and hide
all the negative
aspects of it and hide the impact that it does just to the overall psyche of
the nation.
When you've got, okay, let's just take a guess.
How many people do you think in this country are on SSRIs?
With liberal women, it's like 80%.
And the other 20% need them.
What's the percentage of people on SSRIs in America?
Let's guess.
Man, I'd probably say like, I would go even higher.
I'd say like 60 to 75.
Really?
Yeah.
60 to 75% of the country?
Yeah.
Wow.
I don't think it's that.
I think it's under 30.
It's too many.
It's too many.
It's definitely too many.
But there's also a bunch of people that are looking for a quick fix when there's
a bunch
of factors to why you don't feel happy.
Like we were talking about before.
There's lifestyle, life choices, situation that is beyond your control, like
where you're
born, where you live, the job that you have, where you, you know, if you're in
a place
of limited opportunity and you got a bunch of shitty people around you and life
sucks every
day, it's hard to be happy.
It's hard to not feel depressed.
So then there's the question of like, how does one develop the tools to get out
of that
situation and get somewhere else?
And for a lot of people, it's something that helps them break out, whether it's
starting
a business or being a musician or an artist or something that gets you out of
there.
And then you start getting around more positive people and then you make more
positive lifestyle
choices.
But you just can't expect to be happy if your life is shit.
Right.
13%.
Okay.
I was way off.
American SSRI prescribing.
But I bet in your business, that's why you think of it.
Because with artists, I bet it's a lot higher.
13% of U.S. adults report taking an antidepressant in any given 30-day period.
SSRI is the most frequently used class within that group.
Yeah.
Okay.
So 13%.
So that's 2015 to 2018.
I asked for an update for 2020.
It said it's about the same.
For 2026?
I mean, yeah.
I asked, is there any updates in 2020?
And it basically said the same information.
So about 13%.
Still a lot.
One out of 10 people on crazy pills is a lot.
Yeah.
In the arts community, though.
Yeah.
Much more.
Within the artist community.
The last data that I remember reading was like 70% of artists struggle with
some faction of mental health.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
And then there's also the newest element that targets your mental health and
goes after it, which is social media.
Yeah.
That's a rough one, boy.
That's a rough one.
And so many people treat that as if it's no big deal.
Like, you're just shooting heroin into your eyeballs every day with that stuff.
Yeah, man.
Not good.
So many people are in there.
Yeah.
All day, every day, and then reading a bunch of negative shit about them and
getting angry and upset.
And then carrying that weight around with them all day.
It's easy to say, like, don't read comments, but it's easier said than done.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Especially if you have it on your phone.
That's the thing.
Like, you got to not have it on your phone.
If you have it on your phone, you're going to go to it.
But then the problem is, if you use it for touring and for posting information,
keeping your fans engaged.
Yeah.
Well, the algorithm also serves you, like, you got to engage.
Like, anytime you talk to a social media group, they're like, what are your
engagement levels like?
So they want you on the app using it, commenting, responding to people.
Because if you don't, and you choose not to do that, then they're like, well,
can we go on there for you and, like, respond to comments or whatever?
And I'm like, no, I don't want you punching in any bullshit.
So I'm like, I want to be on there and be myself.
And, like, if this is a tool that I have to have, I want it to be me, like,
authentically.
But, you know, it's a necessary evil.
Yeah, but it ruins so many people's brains.
It rots you.
Yeah, it really does.
And it's also, you're absorbing so much negativity just from what's going on in
the world.
Like, on any given day, if I open up Twitter and I just start reading what
people are upset about, it's just like, oh, my God, the whole world is falling
apart.
Everyone's mad at everything and everyone and every little whatever fucking
social issue, political issue, world issue, economic issue.
Everyone's blaming everyone and everyone's pissed.
And there's so many grifters and psychopaths that are just on there all day
using it, stirring up bullshit.
Fuck, man.
I know.
It's, um, yeah.
You think I could use the bathroom?
Fuck yeah, we could use the bathroom.
We'll get into this.
We've got a lot to say about social media.
We're going to pee, folks.
We'll be right back.
And we're back, ladies and gentlemen.
Where were we?
Depression, everything sucks.
Stay off social media.
Yeah.
Let's talk about music.
Let's talk about some music.
Damn.
That's, how does it take so long to talk about this?
Have you seen that James Brown interview from the 80s?
When he's got those big glasses on?
Oh, yeah.
I want to talk about some music.
That fucking interview's amazing.
It's the best.
He had just got arrested.
I'm out on love.
Yeah.
Aren't you out on bail?
I'm out on love.
Yeah.
And he starts talking to the women in the thing.
He's like, why is that, ladies?
Yeah.
No, it's hilarious.
It's the best.
He's clearly high as fuck.
Yeah.
There's something going on there.
James Brown was an original.
When you first started doing music, how old were you?
Man, I was probably like two or three years old when I started fiddling with it.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
Mm-hmm.
My grandfather played.
My uncles, my dad still plays, you know.
Wow.
So were they professional or they just did it for fun?
My grandfather, so he was a career serviceman.
He was in the Air Force and he was a staff master sergeant.
And he played honky tonks on the weekend.
He was in charge of booking all the NCO clubs on the bass.
So he would book like Charlie Pryde or Johnny Cash, Barbara Mandrell, and his
band would open up and then back them up.
Oh, wow.
So he was a country and western purist.
Did you get a go to any of those shows when you were young?
No.
Well, see, this was back in the 60s.
Oh.
My dad's 73, I think now.
He was born in 53.
And I was born when my dad was like 43.
Oh, wow.
So by the time I came along, everybody was, you know, a lot of my family traded
in like, I think they associated music with a lot of the secular lifestyle.
So they kind of, when they all got born again and into the church, that's
around the time I came around, you know.
So the music was really associated with church.
But I was really interested in that other stuff.
Isn't that interesting?
I wonder why there's a division.
You know, I think about it a lot.
I think that's the closest you can get to divinity, you know, is music, really.
Allowing yourself to get that close to something.
And the conviction that you feel in a church, you know, that's a good common
thing for everybody to get on the same level.
Yeah, that's part of the church experience of everybody having it together,
experiencing it together as a group.
Being together live in a room with a great musician on stage when everyone's
enjoying it together is very much a transcendent experience.
Yeah.
It really is.
Like drinking the Kool-Aid, man.
Yeah, it's like there's a beautiful moment.
You're all experiencing it together and you're all clapping and cheering or you're
all dancing and singing along.
It's a beautiful moment.
It really is.
Music is like a drug, man.
It really is.
It's like a beautiful drug.
Like the right song when you're on the treadmill and you're like, fuck yeah,
you could just keep going, you know?
Tear a door off the hinges.
Yeah.
If I hear like Little Feet Skin It Back.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's certain songs that just give you fucking energy, man.
We're like Bitch by the Rolling Stones.
Oh, yeah.
That song, if I need to pick me up in the morning, that song comes on.
A great weightlifting one is Prison Sex by Tool.
Oh, yeah?
Oh, you know that song?
Tool's a band that I never really delved into.
Oh, they got some.
I know Danny Carey.
I know them because of my buddy Brent Hines.
Did you ever listen to Mastodon?
No.
Man, I got to send you some choice cuts.
Okay.
But Brent was, he was the fucking man.
He just died back in September.
Oh.
I took him on the road right before that, which was messy.
Oh, really?
Which was messy.
Oh, really?
Brent, he and Mastodon kind of had a mutual agreement that he would leave the
band.
So he was doing his solo thing.
And like, he's one of my heroes, you know?
And I was like, I'll take you out, sure.
And like, he just threw it together somehow.
And then I ended up having to kick him off the tour, which like broke my heart.
But he kind of forced my hand.
The night in question, like I walked outside and he had this little tour
manager named Angela.
And she was crying.
And my tour manager was holding her and she was crying.
I was like, fucking A.
What happened now?
She said, I walk into the dressing room and Brent pee on the floor.
And I said, no, no, you have to stop.
So then he pee in his mouth.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
And like, I know.
So you just have to picture my boy just like pissing.
And she's like, yep, stop.
And then he's like, oh.
And he just like.
He pisses in his own mouth.
And like, at his funeral, I told Matt Pike from his sleep.
I told him that story.
And he was like, yeah?
Like, and?
Normal.
He's like, it's a party trick.
That's a Wednesday move.
And I was like, yeah, no, it's hilarious.
But it really offended her.
And she got very upset.
And the whole thing just fell apart.
And, you know.
That was the last straw?
That was this.
Pissing in his own mouth?
That was what did it.
Really?
But, you know.
Get him some paper towels and let's fix this.
I was ready to fix it.
But, like, his whole band and crew, they were like, it's not working.
So.
What was he doing?
He was just, just partying a little too much, you know.
And, I mean, I really, I love that dude, like a brother, you know.
I miss him.
Miss him a lot.
Sometimes it takes a really wild, crazy, off-the-rails person to make music.
Or make any kind of art that just moves you, drives you crazy.
Yeah.
I mean, he was a true artist, you know.
Like, he was insane.
Yeah.
And, like, you got to have friends that your wife doesn't particularly love you
hanging out with.
Right.
You know.
There's something about that friend.
Yeah.
That's a lot of my friends.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, but those are the ones that make the magic.
Yeah.
There's something to it.
And, again, it is a magic thing.
You know, and this is coming from someone with no music.
I have no talent.
And so, for me, like, watching it and experiencing it is a pure experience
because I'm not like, oh, I don't like how he played that chord.
I don't like how, I don't know anything about music.
I just know I love it.
I mean, Rick Rubin, you know, he's held on to that.
He wants to be, you know, and I think he has been, like, the, you know, the
voice of, like, the consumer.
He hears what the consumer wants to hear.
Well, he knows what he likes.
Yeah.
And he's got a very interesting mind, you know.
He's a very interesting person to talk to.
His perspective on things is very unique.
I like him a lot.
I really like him a lot.
I like talking to him a lot.
Just, he sends you the wildest text messages.
He sends me some fucking conspiracies that are often, sometimes I have to say,
hey, that's not real.
But every now and then he'll send you some ones that make you question reality.
I like the thought of you talking Rick off of a ledge.
Not necessarily talking him off a ledge.
Just letting him know that some of the, you know, it's hard to know what's real
and what's not real out there in the world if you're not, like, deep into the
bowels of conspiracy theory movement.
Yeah.
You know?
Right.
But again, a guy like Rick, like, his sensibility, like, he has a, it's, like,
a very valuable position.
A person just with a unique mind that is just helping shape how music gets
produced and created.
And because, like, whatever, whatever it takes, whatever, I mean, it's not a
science, like, a math thing or a, it's not carpentry, like, you have to level
this and square that.
Like, no, man, there's, like, some weirdness and there's love in there and hate
in there.
And there's, there's, there's a lot of stuff that is intangible.
It's hard to describe, like, why this is better and why this is good.
But when you hear it, you know, when you know, you know, you know, there's some
riffs, you know, there's some riffs that just, like, oh, my God.
Like, the beginning of Vujoo Child's Slight Return.
Come on.
Yeah, come on.
Yeah.
Just the beginning, you hear it, you go, oh, yeah.
Yeah, dude.
Yeah.
I mean, Dan Auerbach's another one who's just.
Oh, yeah.
I love those guys.
He's perfected the riff.
Yeah.
Josh, Hami.
Yeah.
He went to the Stone Age.
Oh, yeah.
Um, you know, Rick's a funny one, man.
I love his philosophy on music, too.
He just, he looks at it the same way that Colonel Bruce Hampton looked at it.
Colonel Bruce Hampton and Rick both believed that music is like pro wrestling,
you know?
Is Colonel Bruce Hampton the Colonel from Elvis?
That's not a different Colonel.
Who's Colonel Bruce Hampton?
Colonel Bruce Hampton, he was kind of like, um, so Billy Bob Thornton put him
in a movie in Sling Blade.
Um, he was, I can't remember his name in the film, but yeah, Colonel Bruce Hampton,
there
he is.
He died on stage at the Fox Theater.
Wow.
In Detroit?
No, in Atlanta.
Oh, okay.
Uh, his story is he was born with two birth certificates.
Um, he was just a wild man.
He was just, he was all about, like, instead of instruction, he called it outstruction.
And like, Billy Bob worked on a documentary about him in like 2003.
Um, and he was just, like his whole philosophy on music and just like why we do
it and just
pointing out the hilarity of like the business and like the coffee getters as
he referred
to them.
You know, we have a whole industry built around coffee getters now, you know?
All the people that got the suits, their lattes and stuff in the morning, now
they're calling
the shots.
And that's a, that's a weird place to be.
But the Colonel Bruce Hampton, I, you know, I just, what I do now is I just buy
copies
of, uh, his, uh, documentary, Basically Frightened, and I just give it to
people who aren't hip
to the knowledge.
So I'll, I'll send a copy down here.
Yeah, it's called Frightened?
It's called Basically Frightened.
Basically Frightened.
Colonel Bruce Hampton story, yeah.
Is it available anywhere?
Like, is it on Apple or Amazon or?
It's not streaming anywhere.
No?
So I just, I just collect the DVDs when I can find them.
Oh, wow.
Is it, can you buy a DVD anywhere?
Like if people are listening to this and they want to get a hold of it?
Yeah, like eBay.
That's the only way?
That's, that's the only place I've found them.
Really?
Yeah.
And you'll be bidding against me.
You just keep buying copies of it?
I, yeah.
Every time I give one away, I buy another copy.
Wow.
Yep.
Here's a final thread on Reddit, people looking for it.
And someone's like, just mail me the DVD and I'll copy it for you.
Like, you can't find it anywhere.
Yeah.
Wow.
It would be cool if it were to be streamed somewhere.
It's a fascinating story.
Why is it?
$15 on Amazon, but I don't know that it's going to be even real.
Right.
They might just send you a fucking brick.
But he, he was somebody like, you know, widespread panic.
That was like their guru, you know?
Really?
Colonel Bruce Hampton.
Jimmy Herring, you know, Otil Burbage, who I'm in a band with now.
You know, he started with Bruce, really.
I've never heard of him before.
You know, it's just, he's one of those guys that, you know, he was like, to the
Southeast,
he was like our Frank Zappa, you know?
Oh.
Or like our Sun Ra.
Oh, wow.
He was just all about just the outrageousness.
And, you know, I have a lot of friends who spent a lot more time with him than
I did.
But like, he was one of the first people that took notice to what I was doing
when I was
like 15, you know?
And then I remember like being in Germany and finding out that he'd passed away
on stage,
which he predicted.
He did?
Really?
Yeah.
He said that's how he was going to go.
Well, if you keep performing long enough, well, Carlin died in a hotel room on
the road.
Really?
Yeah.
I'm going to have to download this for you real quick.
Oh, there you go.
It's unlisted on YouTube.
Oh, perfect.
It won't be there tomorrow, though.
After this episode gets released?
Yeah.
Yeah, can you download it?
I can try it, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, there he is.
I'll just download it to you.
I'll figure it out, though.
Okay.
Jammy to the rescue.
Sorry, folks, if you're getting this.
You might be able to find it still.
Yeah, maybe.
Good luck.
Somebody can upload it on one of them other social media platforms.
That's cool.
I'm interested in checking it out.
I love music for inspiration, you know?
It's one of the unique art forms that inspires you to create, inspires you to
go do things.
You know, whenever I see a live band or a live performer, I can't wait to go do
something.
I want to go write.
I want to go perform.
I want to...
Paul Mooney, who's a great comedian.
Do you know who Paul Mooney is?
Yeah.
He used to write for Richard Pryor.
He was one of the real OGs back in the early days when I came to the comedy
store.
I was kind of blown up.
He was one of the guys I was always nervous around being around until he liked
me.
So, you know what I mean?
I'm like, Paul Mooney hates you.
You're fucked.
But he gave me that advice once early on.
He said, if you want to entertain people, he said, go be entertained.
He goes, you want to entertain, honey?
Go be entertained, homie.
Go see some other shit.
He goes, go see something that gets you...
Go see a great movie.
Go see a band.
Go see something.
Be entertained.
That's what my process is like in the studio, man.
Like this last record we did, like we had a projector and we'd play like, you
know, Giant with James Dean or we'd play like Easy Rider or Big Lebowski or
like films that like inspired us, films that we like really gravitated towards.
And all the while, you know, waking up in the morning and reading East of Eden
and just like some of these great architects of Americana and just like being
inspired on every turn.
Watching live concert footage of bands that we love, Marshall Tucker Band, Skynyrd,
whatever the case.
Just inundating yourself with inspiring stuff, you know.
Just something to get the juices flowing.
Just summon the muse.
Something to...
Sometimes we would play just the footage of like a Midnight Cowboy or something.
And we would record, you know, in the mindset like we were trying to score this
film, you know.
Oh, wow.
Just to kind of get a different approach.
I forgot about Midnight Cowboy.
What a wild movie.
It's a good one.
Yeah.
That was back when Times Square was dirty.
Yeah.
Now Times Square is one big Applebee's.
That's when people would go and watch pornography together in a theater.
In a theater.
Yeah.
Not only that, but it was a thing in the early days of pornography where
couples would go out and like Johnny Carson went to see Deep Throat.
Yeah.
There's like famous people went to see the film Deep Throat in the theater.
Yep.
Well, it was adult entertainment.
But how weird is that?
That pornography, like there was always stag films, right?
Like that was the thing that they used to make like in the early days of movies.
They would film people having sex.
And you could watch it like at a stag party, which was like a bachelor party.
Right.
But then people tried to make films, like artistic films, that had people
having sex in them.
Which is really interesting that we find that abhorrent.
Like people don't like that in today's society.
We don't mind like this show From that I was telling you about.
Bro, the violence is horrific.
The gore and the violence is crazy.
That's okay.
Just don't suck someone's dick.
Don't make them cum.
That's terrible.
Do you remember the movie Bad Bunny?
No, not Bad Bunny.
Was that Brown Bunny?
Brown Bunny.
Do you remember the movie Brown Bunny?
Brown Bunny was a Vincent Gallo movie that he made.
And there was a real sex scene in there.
Like, how do you say that lady's name?
Chloe...
I don't know how to say her name.
I don't know how to say her name.
She's a really good actress.
And she blows him.
Like, for real, in the movie.
Like, it's a real scene.
And the movie's a real movie.
But then when it came to the sex part, they actually did it.
And people were horrified.
Yeah.
I mean, it's so weird.
Like, if it was violence, like, if it was a scene where she beat him to death
with a baseball bat, people would be like, wow, what a crazy movie.
Right.
But it was a scene where she blows him.
People are like, this is outrageous.
Outrageous.
And I think that movie ruined Vincent Gallo's career.
Really?
Yeah, because Vincent Gallo had been in a bunch of movies.
He's a really weird guy.
Like, a very interesting guy.
And after that, he kind of dipped away from Hollywood.
Like, he kind of vanished in a lot of ways.
And that was the big thing.
I remember reading these articles on how outraged people were.
That they had actually seen real sex in a movie.
Like, it's so strange that we don't mind violence.
Like, once upon a time in Hollywood, Brad Pitt takes a lady's head and bashes
it into a mantelpiece and fucking brains her.
Fine.
Fine.
No outrage.
No, everyone okay?
Everyone's okay.
But if he fucked her, like, actually pulled her pants down, you see Brad Pitt's
penis and her vagina.
You're like, this is crazy.
Something that we all do.
Yeah.
But the simulation of it is fine, too.
Right.
Simulation of it is fine.
Yeah.
Like, it was a sex scene.
And you just see his hips and her face.
There you go.
And they're kissing.
Fine.
Why don't you see actual sex?
Mm-hmm.
Even if it was, like, him and his wife.
Like, if he made a movie with him and his wife and they decided to have actual
sex in the movie, people would be like, this is disgusting.
Get this fucking smut off the screen.
But if they had a movie with him and his wife and she shoots him, you're like,
okay, that's fine.
Didn't really happen.
Right.
Weird, right?
It is weird.
I mean, hell, I did a commercial for, like, I did a shoot for this car and,
like, they couldn't have me in the car while it was moving for insurance
purposes.
So they had to, like, make it seem like I was in the car while it was moving.
Insurance purposes.
That's crazy.
But that's more of a financial thing.
Yeah.
But the weirdness about sex, the point is, like, see if you can find that
footage of all the people that were in line.
There's, like, an old, there's a YouTube video of an old news report of people
in line to see Deep Throat.
Right.
And, again, Johnny Carson was one of them.
And I think they even interviewed him after the film.
Like, they went and watched people fuck.
And, like, it was a movie.
Like, you know, you're watching The Joker or something.
Right.
Very odd.
It is odd.
And they got that name, Deep Throat, from the Watergate.
Did they?
Yeah.
I thought Deep Throat was afterwards.
I thought the Watergate thing was after.
I don't know.
I could be wrong.
Chicken or the egg.
Okay.
So, Watergate was, what, 70?
74.
Was it?
Yeah, the movie came out in 72.
Oh, yeah.
So, the movie came out first.
Okay.
And so, that was after those.
So, that's interesting, too, when you think about, like, 72 was not that long
ago.
And people's ideas of pornography were very different back then.
A lot of my favorite venues in the country were porno theaters first.
Comedy Mothership, bro.
Oh, right.
Yeah.
It was a porno theater at one point in time.
And, like, people cared about, like, the quality of, like, the audio production
in those films.
And, like, you know, and these rooms sound really good.
Variety Playhouse in Atlanta.
It's one of the best scenes in American Werewolf in London.
Okay.
Do you remember that movie, American Werewolf in London?
It's a great fucking movie.
One of the best scenes, they're in the middle of London, and they're in an
adult movie theater.
And these people are watching pornography.
They're watching a smut film.
And while these people are fucking, he turns into a werewolf and kills
everybody.
I got to check that out.
Oh, it's great.
One of the greatest movies of all time.
That wolf that we have in the lobby, that's a recreation.
Oh, really?
Of the American Werewolf.
Okay.
That's what that is.
The thing with Johnny Carson and Deep Throat, I think, is, like, a conglomeration
memory.
Is it?
There's a weird, there is a photo of people waiting in line to see the movie.
Mm-hmm.
But it's, like, this is it on the screen.
Mm-hmm.
But there was a video of Johnny Carson talking about it after the fact, during
his monologue, that he went to see it.
Oh, so there wasn't a photo or a video of him at the movie theater?
I don't think so, man.
I'm looking for it.
Because I sort of remember what you're talking about.
I think we might have read an article that listed all of this stuff together.
What was that play where they had, like, everybody was, like, naked and it was,
like, really a big deal.
Was it, like, Hairspray or something like that?
I don't know.
In the late 70s, my dad told me him and his friends went to go see this, like,
Broadway production or off-Broadway production, where, like, everybody was,
like, nude and it was, like, this really, you know, it was, like, this really racy
thing.
Yeah.
And there was a preacher up front just, like, really just giving him hell, man.
And then he got up closer and he realized it was his uncle.
My great uncle was up there.
Just motherfucking him.
That's hilarious.
Widely cited overview.
Many works are quoted.
Note that several mainstream celebrities appear to have seen Deep Throat,
including Martin Scorsese, Brian De Palma, Truman Capote, Jack Nicholson,
Johnny Carson, Spiro Agnew, Frank Sinatra, and others.
Barbara Walters later mentioned seeing it in her memoir.
These references are usually brief, but they're pulled into many articles about
the film's cultural impact.
But that's what's so interesting.
It's, like, that is not normal in today's society to even think that a bunch of
people would say they went to go see a porn film.
I think this is also, so, Midnight Cowboy, which is where you guys started this,
1969, which is before this, and won Best Picture as the film, X-rated, or NCC.
2017 movie.
So, there started a little bit of a trend then.
Interesting.
And this is only three years later, you know, so.
Why was Midnight Cowboy X-rated?
The reason?
Yeah.
Like, what was so explicit that they had to make it an X?
I would say a little bit has to do with marketing, but I don't know if there's
a reason.
I'll say if there's a reason.
Marketing?
Yeah, it'd make people want to go see it.
Right.
I guess.
Oh, this is crazy.
This movie's crazy.
It's not standing out here.
Right here.
After consulting with a psychologist, they were told to give it a next
homosexual frame reference and its possible influence on youngsters.
Wow.
That's crazy.
Today, that would be celebrated.
Right.
Oh, there's a rape scene?
I haven't seen this movie.
I saw it in, like, the 80s.
I haven't seen it in forever.
Yeah, but even, I mean, like, in that film, it's like a distant thought that
Jon Voight's character keeps going back to, like, the rape scene.
Whereas, like...
When was the last time you saw it?
A couple months ago, probably.
Oh, really?
But, like, fucking, uh, The Deliverance plays on AMC, on TV.
Right, right, which is another rape scene, right?
Nothing's edited out.
Sweet like a pig.
That one fucked me up when I was a kid, I'm not gonna lie.
Oh, yeah, very much so.
Not to mention it, like, supposedly took place, like, in the Appalachian, like,
backdrop, which is, like, where I grew up.
And I was like, that's fucking happening, like, here?
Uh, because of then-shocking sexual content, even more importantly, its frank
portrayal of homosexuality and hustling.
Hustling meaning having gay sex for money, which the studio and censor saw as
potentially corrupting to young viewers.
The film includes scenes and references to male prostitution, homosexual
encounters, and brief but explicit situations, including implied oral sex and
nudity, which went far beyond what Hollywood had shown in a mainstream drama up
to that point.
And maybe now it would get just an R, but also that would be with this never
existing, so.
Now it would be celebrated.
It's a film celebrating sex workers.
It's weird.
It's weird what was, uh, but it's also weird that there was a movie that was an
actual porn movie that a bunch of people just went to see and talked about.
Like, today, people want to pretend they don't even watch porn.
Meanwhile, I think last check we did, oh, no, we've done this before, Jamie.
Like, what percentage of the internet is pornography, internet traffic?
Take a guess at that.
I bet it's way more than SSRIs.
Right?
Don't you think?
Yeah, I haven't.
I haven't guessed right so far, so let's see.
Uh, 50%.
Oh, I don't know if it's that high.
I would say 30.
Okay.
I would say 30% of the internet, but I could be wrong.
I don't remember.
30% of the internet traffic is pornography.
Let's say that.
Maybe it's 40.
I was just saying that's a myth.
It's a myth?
I don't know.
I mean, I haven't read through this yet.
That's a bunch of people lying about jerking off.
30% to 40% is a myth, apparently.
Okay.
Porn makes up a small share of sites.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but traffic.
Yeah, it says it.
Um, 30, 40%.
Uh, Wiley stated, but what is the, what about traffic?
The amount of internet.
Searches.
Yeah, but no, but I mean traffic, like the amount of bandwidth.
All right, then it's getting lost in this word because I used, I used traffic.
No, I used traffic.
Yeah, you did.
Why do we see higher numbers?
See 37, 37% of the internet is porn.
BBC reported tracing one of these popular figures back to single content filter
company press release.
Not an independent audited measurement.
Some advocacy.
I bet now today because of YouTube and the amount of streaming that goes on
with like Instagram
and TikTok, I bet it probably isn't as high as it used to be, the percentage
wise,
because there's so much more content that's being streamed now than ever before.
Porn related searches are 13% on the web and 20% on mobile devices.
That's funny.
It's more on mobile devices because people can hide in the toilet.
The content filter company.
Okay.
The claim comes from this.
Yeah, we read that.
We already read that.
Well, I just said, so it could be just made up to begin with.
Yeah, could be.
But there's got to be like a number of like the internet traffic.
I don't know how you'd get that number.
So, some advocacy or internet safety groups cite very high traffic shares and
storage figures.
Example, nearly a third of all internet traffic.
But these are rough, sometimes opaque estimates rather than peer-reviewed
measurements.
Hmm.
Okay.
So, it's at least 4%.
So, it says roughly websites, 4% to 12%.
That's a lot.
Does 4% to 12% of the whole internet is jerk-off websites?
That's crazy.
But the volume, in terms of the amount of bandwidth used.
Right.
But...
I bet if you went and watched Deep Throat today, it'd probably be pretty
pedestrian.
It'd be tamed.
Yeah.
It probably would seem just like soft core almost.
Right.
Yeah.
Like one of them Showtime late night movies.
Yeah.
I mean, it is something that I, you know, I like to save all that, you know.
When I get home off the road, I see my wife.
Yeah.
You know.
Is that the tagline that it had originally?
The woman had an unusual birth defect that came from a doctor who has an unorthodox
solution
to make the best of her situation.
Is that it?
Is that the Deep Throat?
Yes.
Yes.
Or that she could just take it.
Birth Defect?
Balls deep downward.
Throat chin.
That guy, Harry Reams, he was like one of the first famous male porn stars.
I think he went on to be a real estate salesman or something.
Like if you're one of those people that gets famous fucking, that has got to be
a very...
Is that where the porn mustache comes from?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
He had a crazy stash.
1947.
Wow.
What's he up to these days?
He passed away.
Did he?
Yeah.
When did he pass away?
1913.
Wow.
Didn't live that long.
All that fucking wasted all his jizz.
I bet he shaved off his mustache and he was just anonymous.
He was just drifting out of traffic.
Nobody even noticed him.
You know?
Right.
Weird life.
Having sex with people on camera.
Should we add that to the wall?
Look at that.
Oh, look at that.
Everybody's got arrested.
Look at that is.
When do we get arrested to?
If we add it to the wall?
Probably for indecent something.
Yeah, we should add that to the wall.
Memphis.
You've got to be up to some no good to get arrested in Memphis.
What did he get arrested for?
I'll see if it says something.
Too much dick.
It says his appearance in Deep Throat led to his arrest by FBI agents in
Memphis.
Charges of conspiracy to distribute obscenity across state lines.
Whoa.
Whoa.
He called it forum shopping, but I don't...
What does that mean?
Forum shopping?
For the practice of litigants taking actions to have their legal case heard in
the court,
they believe is most...
Oh, to give them a good judgment.
They're trying to get them convicted, I guess.
Trying to make an example of them.
So they found a court that would take the case.
Like for obscenity?
Yeah.
How interesting.
Miller v. California.
Reams is granted a new trial.
Charges were dropped in August.
Wow.
So they just...
The defense argues the first act that would ever be prosecuted by the federal
government
for appearing in a film.
It's like the Lenny Bruce of Slinging Dick.
And then all these people got behind him.
Very...
Shirley MacLean, Warren Beatty, Richard Dreyfuss, they all got behind him.
Jack Nicholson, Ben Gazzara.
Wow.
Dick Cavett.
He was in Greece.
That's the coach.
Wow.
How was it?
He was in the movie Grease, the musical?
What?
In 1978?
Out of fear, his notoriety would jeopardize the film's block.
He was replaced.
Oh, he was cast and he was replaced by Sid Caesar.
That's hilarious.
Wow.
After an eight-year...
In 1982, after an eight-year hiatus from porn, Reams returned to the industry
and performed
in the film Society Affairs and reportedly received a six-figure salary.
How weird.
It's funny back then.
Weird.
It is.
The whole pornography thing is very strange.
Because, like, people want to watch other people have sex because people like
having sex.
But it's like...
But you can't talk about it.
But, you know, if you say you like it, people are like, fuck, what's wrong with
you?
Yeah.
And then they watch it.
But if we could de-stigmatize it and, like, not give people unrealistic ideas
of what happens
in the bedroom and note it as something that is entertainment, you know?
I think the fear is that the women that are in it, for the rest of their life,
they're always
going to be thought of a certain way.
And the men skate.
They don't really have a...
Like, they're thought as seedy, but they don't thought as, like, you know,
girls that
got used.
Well, I think what's going to get weird is AI porn.
Because then you can watch porn and there's no victims, right?
There's no person you feel bad for.
Like, oh, that poor girl.
Everyone's going to know that she sucked dick on camera.
She took it in the ass on camera.
It's not a real person.
So then maybe you can watch that and...
Remove any kind of victim, yeah.
I don't know.
People are fucking weird.
People are weird.
I'll tell you one thing I've never tried, and I'm not going to.
I don't want it.
Nope.
Not going to do it.
Is VR porn.
Because Duncan told me, dude, have you ever seen VR porn?
It's fucking amazing.
Like, I'm not going to do it.
I'm not going to sit there with fucking goggles on, jack it off.
Joe hasn't left his house in about six months.
I mean, you imagine you're watching porn and the people are fucking 20 feet
high in front of you.
They're bagging.
And if you can move around in it, like you can move around in other VR, you can
get really close to watch the dick go in there.
That's one thing I haven't tried either.
VR porn?
Good for you.
Stay away.
VR in general is weird.
You know what's really great, though, is VR games.
Oh, yeah.
Have you ever done any VR games?
You know what Sandbox is?
You ever heard of Sandbox?
Sandbox, they have one in Austin.
They had one in Woodland Hills, right down the street from our old studio in L.A.,
and it is a place where you go.
It's like a big-ass warehouse, and you go to these rooms in the warehouse, and
they have fans set up, and it's all, like, these walls.
Like, it's all boundaries.
They put a haptic feedback vest on you and goggles, and they give you rifles,
and the plastic rifles, and then you get dropped into this virtual reality
world where you fight zombies.
Oh, shit.
It's fucking dope.
Dude, it's nuts.
When the zombies attack you, they run at you, they claw you, you see blood splatter
in front of your eyes, and you gun them down.
It's fucking crazy.
There's one called Deadwood Mansion.
That's my favorite.
And the Deadwood Mansion, there's a couple different Deadwood games.
I think there's two or three now.
I think there's three.
I think there's three.
There's three zombie games that you can play.
That's in L.A.?
Three different ones.
No, it's here.
Here.
They have one in Austin.
Oh, shit.
Yeah, it's out at the Domain.
Yeah, it's out at the Domain.
It's fucking so fun.
My family hates it because they get, like, sick, and that's all I ever want to
do, so on Father's Day, I make everybody shoot zombies with me.
Like, it's Father's Day.
What do you want to do?
Shoot, zombies.
Like, no.
I'm like, come on, we have to do it.
Yeah.
It's fun.
Once you do it, it's fun.
Father's Day's coming up.
Tournament, Joe.
Tournament.
Okay.
At one point in time, I had the number three score in the country.
No shit.
At killing zombies.
Yeah, I went ham one day.
One day, I was just locked the fuck in.
And the key is, I'm going to give you guys a pro tip.
If you're doing Deadwood Mansion, get the shotgun.
The shotgun is overpowered.
The shotgun kills more things than anything else.
It's way better at it.
But the game is nuts, man.
I mean, there's zombie rats that come running at you.
There's fucking people that are attached to the walls and they shoot down their
tongue and wrap it around your neck and they're pulling on you.
Show them a clip of it.
It's crazy.
It is a fucking...
It's really fun, dude.
You'll love it.
I'm going to tell you the band to do that.
Yeah.
That's what you could do.
You could do it with like six people.
We're always looking for like band activities.
It's a good one.
I bet they have multiple.
I only know of these two of Austin and L.A.
The one I pulled up is in Atlanta.
Oh, there's one in Atlanta?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
They have to have them all over the place.
I don't know, I have no idea why it's not everywhere because it's so fun.
It's one of the most fun things you could do with your friends.
We've done it, my wife and I have done it on double dates.
Like you go do that and then you go have dinner.
It's great, man.
It's great.
It's really fun.
They got a ton of locations now.
Oh, shit.
They're all over the place now.
Yeah, that's great.
See if you can find a video of Deadwood Mansion.
Oh, Deadwood Phobia.
Oh, that's the newest one.
That's the third one.
Oh, there's a Squid Games one.
We've done that one, too.
The Stranger Things one.
They have so many different.
Deadwood Valley, that's another one that's really good.
The Deadwood Valley one, do they have a...
Yeah, there we go.
So check this out.
So this is what happens.
You get dropped off into this city and the zombies are there.
And so this is, this is you, it's like, it's cut between you with the guns and
then like, this is what you see.
This is what it looks like.
So, but this is more like a video, like showing you what it looks like on the
outside.
But when you're in it, I wish they would show you what it looks like.
That's what it looks like when you're in it.
Oh, wow.
And these dudes are chasing after you and you're gunning them down.
It's really fun.
But again, there's a bunch of games that you can do that...
Survive the horrors.
You got to save the heroes.
There's people in there that you have to save and there's other people that you
have to kill.
It's dope.
It's really fun.
It's badass.
So that's a good use of VR.
Don't be looking at 10-foot vaginas.
Go kill fake zombies.
You get stuck on a train and as a train's running down the tracks, they're
jumping onto the train and trying to get you.
You have to gun them down.
It's really fun.
That seems like something I could get into.
I never played any video games growing up.
Really?
That's crazy.
How old are you?
30.
How's that possible?
I mean, I just never had much interest in them.
Like when I was young, I don't know.
Do your friends play video games?
Like the rest of the band, they all play.
And you just say, nope, not interested.
I was just never really into it, man.
Well, this is different than a regular video game.
Like this is very physical.
Like you're running around.
You're in a room that's bigger than this room.
And you have your haptic feedback.
You also have fans that blow air at you.
You know, like it's also to cool you off too because it gets hot as fuck and
you're running around.
You got this vest on.
And when you get grabbed, the vest vibrates.
So you feel it.
Like, oh, that's sick.
Oh, yeah, it's really fun.
But it's probably good that you never got into video games because they're so
time intensive.
They rob you of your life.
You think golf robs you of your life?
You don't have to leave the house to play video games.
Look at Jamie over there.
How often do you play video games, Jamie?
Not that often.
No?
No.
I thought you were a junkie.
I actually haven't played in weeks.
Ooh.
Maybe.
But you were hooked for a while, right?
It's a fun...
As I'm thinking in my head, I'm like, I grew up playing video games, but I also
wish I was fucking sick of guitar.
So there's a fucking trade-off there.
And most people I know who are sick of guitar aren't good at video games or
play them.
That's a very good point.
I did make...
I made an effort like a year or two ago.
I got a PS5 and I got Red Dead Redemption.
I was like, I'm going to fucking do it.
I'm going to play this game.
And I just got...
I was like, I feel like I'm just doing chores.
And I asked my drummer, he was like, yeah, that's pretty much what it is.
Oh, Red Dead Redemption?
Yeah.
You got to play something like a first-person shooter.
You know, play like Quake or something like that.
What's the big first-person shooter that the kids play today, Jamie?
I mean, Fortnite, really.
Fortnite?
Fortnite is...
Boy, Fortnite's been around forever.
When my kids were in, like, grade school, Fortnite was big.
Yep.
And they just made some weird...
I don't...
I stopped paying attention, but, like, Star Wars is now in Fortnite.
And the games that they made for Star Wars are just like, nope, it's just in
this thing now.
You can just play it in here.
Wow, really?
Yeah.
And it's like they download them Stormtroopers and lightsabers.
Whoa.
Yeah, my nephews are always hitting me for, what do they call that, like,
Fortnite Bucks or...
B-Bucks.
B-Bucks.
B-Bucks, yeah.
They want B-Bucks so they can play more.
Yeah, there's Robux.
My kids were always into Robux for Roblox, so you could buy things in Roblox.
But apparently now there's, like, pedophiles have gotten into Roblox.
They try to message people.
They ruin everything.
They do.
They do.
Creeps ruin everything.
But there's some very fun video games that you shouldn't ever do, because it'll
fuck with
all the other things you do.
Like, not getting into golf, not getting into video games.
Again, Jamie's dead right.
That's probably why you're so sick of guitar.
You can make a guitar gently weep.
Well, there's other things, like, there's certain games where you can play
guitar, like
Guitar Hero.
That's not the fucking same.
No, no, no.
But having people learned how to play guitar, an actual guitar, because of
guitar.
There's a game called, there's technically a game, it's like a training aid
called Rocksmith,
which is the way it's, you actually have a guitar and it's plugged into it, not
on run.
That's cool.
Well, Guitar Hero, you're just hitting five buttons.
Oh, I see.
You're just matching red to red, blue to blue.
That's a timing thing, but no transfer.
It doesn't, oh.
But I would imagine that a game that would teach you how to play guitar,
with an actual guitar would be dope.
Like, if you get, like, you know, like these games, like the sandbox game, Deadwood
Mansion, you get a gun.
And if you get really good, like, Staccato has a VR gun game.
Staccato, they make pistols.
And there's a VR gun game.
And you get a plastic Staccato.
And when you're playing this game, like, you're actually pointing the trigger.
And when you pull the trigger, there's actually, like, a muzzle jump.
Oh, wow.
So your reticle actually jumps up and down a little.
Your red dot jumps up and down a little bit.
That would be exactly like it would do if you actually shot a gun.
So they have to, like, recenter it.
Bang, bang, bang.
And so you could run around doing things and shoot stuff and shoot targets.
That's here, too?
Yeah, but that's a game that you can get for, like, meta VR goggles, like
consumer VR goggles.
And so you doing that could get better at shooting guns.
Because you're shooting a plastic.
It doesn't weigh the same, but it's the same shape, the same form.
It's a plastic gun.
I mean, what they really should do is make one of those things with the weight
of an actual steel gun
so that you're accustomed to the actual feel of the thing.
Yeah.
And then, oh, God, why can't they do that?
They should be able to do that.
Maybe I'll talk to them.
But if you did that, like, that would be a skill that would actually transfer
over.
So if they could do that with a guitar, if they could figure out a way to
attach, like, computer sensors to an actual real guitar.
This is Rocksmith.
This is a – there's levels of it.
You can slow it down.
And what are you playing?
Real songs.
You pick the song.
They're all real songs.
Right, but what is the interface?
A guitar.
Oh, an actual guitar?
Yeah, it's plugged in with a USB cable to the computer.
Oh, it's their virtual guitar?
No, no.
This is just – I showed you what it looks like on the game.
Right.
What is – but it looks like an actual guitar.
It's a real – whatever guitar you want to play.
Oh.
It's your guitar.
It's not – it's not a fake guitar.
Oh.
Guitars are just things that vibrate strings and expel.
Oh, dude, that's dope.
And expel the digital sound thing.
That's – that is dope.
That's actually pretty sick.
But I think – after a while, you'd have to abandon that.
Right?
Well, yeah, he's good at guitar.
I mean –
He's the need to learn this.
Did you learn by lessons or did you just learn by playing?
So, initially, I just learned by just sitting around the house, watching
cartoons, playing guitar.
My grandfather would teach me something.
He'd give me, like, a project, basically.
Or my dad would leave me a record to listen to.
And it was just his old record collection.
So, a lot of Allman Brothers band, a lot of Skinnerd, Marshall Tucker band,
that kind of thing.
And then I would just sit at home all day and just go over it.
And then later, when I was in high school, I studied jazz theory with Steve
Watson at this – it was like a vocational school for the arts.
It was called the Fine Arts Center in Greenville, South Carolina.
And I'd go there in the afternoons and study jazz theory, which was really
beneficial because it's good to put a vocabulary to the things that you kind of
knew, you know,
but you didn't know how to quite name it.
Right, right, right.
And just kind of learning the, you know, the vocabulary, learning, you know,
what things are called, and then expanding upon that, you know.
Yeah.
Music theory is a valuable tool.
Yeah?
Mm-hmm.
Does it help you in writing songs?
It can.
It helps in, like, like in Nashville, they use something called the Nashville
number system.
So, like, you go into a session, and, like, it's all based off of the major
scale.
So, like, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.
And then the eight is just the octave of the one, right?
So, they'll say, like, we got a one, four, five, you know.
And it just represents what the chords are.
Yeah.
Wow.
This is where math and stuff gets really interesting.
You go down this rabbit hole forever.
Yeah.
You could bring a Terrence Howard back in here.
We could start getting into some weird stuff.
Honestly.
And then you could bring it into ancient Egypt, and so this is all vibrations,
and you could probably translate hieroglyphs into some of this music theory
stuff.
It's fucking weird.
Terrence Howard trying to find the one.
Yeah.
Like, in a beat.
That's hilarious.
But the first time I used the number system was with Auerbach.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Because Dan, like, his house band for a long time was the remaining members of
the Memphis Boys, who played on, like, Son of a Preacher Man by Dusty Springfield.
Oh, wow.
And, like, Suspicious Minds, that kind of thing.
Gene Crispin was 80 years old playing drums.
Bobby Wood, keyboard player, Billy Sanford.
And his second session in Nashville was Pretty Woman, and he wrote the riff.
Oh, wow.
So, I walk in, I was early to the session, and they were still, they were
finishing up their first session of the day, which was John Prine.
Wow.
And I walked in, and it was just like, whoa.
Wow.
Dan was like, Dan Marcus, get his ass in here and play some slide guitar.
So, they threw a chart in front of me.
I just had to pretend I knew what was going on, you know.
That's where you've got to rely on your ear.
Hmm.
But it's conversational, too.
Like, if you don't really know what's going on, like, you don't want to say
much, you know.
Right.
That's fascinating, man.
Yeah.
I'm scared of music.
Not, not really, but I'm scared of practicing it.
I'm scared of learning it.
Because I just feel like it would be very rewarding.
It is.
And I'd get very obsessed.
Yeah.
Something to it.
Yeah.
Well, listen, man, I'm glad there's people out there like you doing it.
Man, I'm just thankful.
Well, that's the best attitude to have.
That's what I think.
I think gratitude is the best attitude to have.
Yeah, man.
Anyone that's doing what they actually want to do, what's going to propel you
forward and keep it going is probably gratitude.
Yeah.
Just be happy that, like, you're able to do one of the coolest fucking things
in the world for a living.
Yeah.
Kind of amazing.
Just, and don't be an asshole.
Don't be an asshole.
That's it.
You'd be surprised how hard it is to follow that one.
I know, right?
A lot of people fail.
Well, thank you, Marcus.
Thanks for being here, brother.
It was fun.
I enjoyed it.
Thank you all for having me.
What's that?
Oh.
Thanks for having me.
Anytime.
Let's do it again.
All right.
Bye, everybody.
Bye, everybody.
Thank you.