#2477 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard

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Rick Perry

2 appearances

Rick Perry was the 47th governor of Texas and the 14th secretary of Energy in the first administration of President Donald Trump.https://x.com/GovernorPerry

W. Bryan Hubbard

2 appearances

W. Bryan Hubbard was the 1st Chairman of the Kentucky Opioid Commission and currently leads the REID Foundation’s American Ibogaine Initiative.https://x.com/w_bryan_hubbardhttps://www.reid.foundation/texas-ibogaine-initiativehttps://www.reveilleadvisors.com/ibogaine/

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Timestamps

0:23Texas Ibogaine Initiative: legislative campaign, $100M funding win, and what ibogaine is/does
9:55Ibogaine as a medical “moonshot”: neuroregeneration claims, veterans’ stories, and overcoming drug-war stigma
19:53Ibogaine advocacy: veterans’ PTSD/opioid addiction, legislative momentum, and clinical-trial push

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0:00

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

0:03

The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:05

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

0:09

Gentlemen, great to see you.

0:13

Yeah, put him on, slap him on.

0:15

What's happening?

0:15

Good to see you gentlemen again.

0:18

Taking off.

0:19

Good to see you, William.

0:20

One more time.

0:22

Yeah, one more time.

0:23

Yeah.

0:23

So, what is the latest?

0:26

Give me the latest.

0:27

Where are we at?

0:29

Why don't you take it, Brian?

0:30

You're the most current on where we are, what's going on.

0:37

Man, there has been a lot of stuff happen in the 15 months since we were here.

0:41

I mean, like, stunning amount of stuff.

0:43

So, let's not waste any time.

0:45

Tell them where we're at.

0:46

All right.

0:47

Well, the last time we came to visit with you, I believe, was on December the

0:51

27th of 2024.

0:54

We were just on the front end of having organized 30 committed Texans whose own

0:59

families had had experiences related to trauma, addiction, alcoholism, and the

1:04

wounds of war.

1:06

Who, after hearing a plan that was developed for the state of Kentucky to bring

1:10

Ibogaine to the American people as an FDA-approved medication and breakthrough

1:14

treatment for addiction and trauma, committed themselves to using their time,

1:20

their talent, and their network to achieve what had never been done before.

1:25

And that was to convince an individual state to undertake drug development to

1:29

create a therapeutic medical breakthrough for public health crises within its

1:34

borders that are representative of the national reality.

1:38

After you released the interview with us on January 2nd, 2025, we pursued a

1:46

five-and-a-half-month blistering campaign to convince 188 blank-slate Texas

1:53

legislators to fund the single largest psychedelic research and medical

1:59

development project in history, that being the $50 million Texas Ibogaine

2:05

Initiative.

2:06

We had the assistance of some in-state allies, one of which was Texans for

2:10

Greater Mental Health, led by a dear friend and brother of mine, Logan Davidson,

2:16

who was my right hand, going to meet with legislators continuously.

2:20

While I set up shop at a hotel here in Halston and lived here just about part-time,

2:24

wearing the shoe leather off, sweating, and making sure that everybody who

2:29

needed to be introduced, educated, and motivated to get behind this would do so.

2:34

Well, at the end of this five-and-a-half months, we secured the votes of yes of

2:40

181 out of 188 legislators between the Texas House of Representatives and State

2:47

Senate.

2:48

There was one individual who we had to persuade at the 11th hour to get behind

2:53

this project.

2:55

On May the 14th, 2025, just 36 hours before the Texas budget was finalized,

3:01

this bill that would create the first unified FDA drug development trial with

3:07

Ibogaine in U.S. history was not funded.

3:11

I woke up that morning and I believe very much in keeping your prayers in the

3:15

closet, as Jesus taught, and not getting out there parading about it.

3:20

But on that morning, I got a call and it was, hey, we're getting to the 11th

3:25

hour.

3:25

We don't have money to secure this.

3:28

It may not make it.

3:29

We've done everything that we can.

3:31

And I just, I literally got down on my hands and knees and said, God, please

3:35

let this happen.

3:37

And if it cannot happen, help me understand why.

3:40

Three hours later, I got a telephone call asking if I could go and meet with

3:45

the Texas House Speaker and Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick.

3:49

I went at 4.30 in the afternoon on May the 14th and spent an hour with these

3:54

two gentlemen going back and forth about what this project was, why it was so

3:58

existentially necessary for Texas and the country.

4:01

And on Friday morning, May the 16th at 10 a.m., we got a text message from

4:06

Lieutenant Governor Patrick confirming that he would approve and fully fund the

4:10

Texas Ibogaine initiative.

4:13

As we walk in here today, literally just 10 minutes before we walked into your

4:19

studio, I can confirm that the great state of Texas is going to fully fund the

4:27

Texas Ibogaine initiative.

4:30

Originally intended to be a public-private partnership, but now has decided on

4:35

its own to commit a full $100 million to launch the development of Ibogaine all

4:41

the way through the FDA's drug development process for the benefit of the

4:46

American people.

4:48

To do so on its own, without any drug development partner, and to do it for the

4:54

good of humanity.

4:56

That's phenomenal.

4:58

So what did you have to say to Dan Patrick to convince him of this?

5:01

And kudos to him for doing this.

5:03

Well, I had some very wonderful advocates who preceded my meeting.

5:08

Was he skeptical?

5:09

Oh, he was completely disengaged from the process, highly skeptical, as we

5:14

learned through intermediaries.

5:16

But we had two wonderful brothers on mission who happened to be twins, Marcus

5:22

and Morgan Luttrell.

5:24

I know Marcus very well.

5:26

Marcus and Morgan Luttrell reached out to the lieutenant governor.

5:29

They spoke to him very movingly and personally about their own experiences with

5:34

Ibogaine, what it had done, not just to save their lives,

5:37

but what it was doing to save the lives of warfighters who had come to the end

5:42

of being able to live.

5:43

And as they explained to him what it did for them and what it has done for

5:48

their brothers and sisters-at-arms who've returned to war, to broken government

5:53

systems that can do nothing to cure what else them at their core.

5:59

He was persuaded to have an open-minded conversation.

6:02

And through that conversation on May the 14th, we essentially went through what

6:07

science suggests are the powers of the most sophisticated molecule on the

6:12

planet to resolve physiological substance dependence and thereby create

6:17

psychology within the human being,

6:19

whereby they believe they believe they have ownership of themselves and their

6:23

future and that that future will be one defined by choice rather than compulsion.

6:26

And the most powerful aspect of the Ibogaine argument, not just for the

6:30

lieutenant governor and house speaker, but for most of these legislators who

6:35

voted yes,

6:36

is the experience endorsed by many that Ibogaine confirms without question the

6:43

reality of our individual human divinity.

6:47

And that is the greatest truth conveyed by this fabulous plant.

6:52

Well put.

6:53

And I don't think it's just Ibogaine that confirms that.

6:55

I think you could say the same about many other psychedelic drugs that are

7:00

unjustly maligned and treated as if they're an escape from reality.

7:05

But in the interest of this being a standalone podcast where people don't know

7:10

what Ibogaine is and don't understand the efficacy of it and how unbelievably

7:15

effective it is at especially treating addiction,

7:19

could you please just go over that?

7:21

Yes, sir.

7:22

So Ibogaine is an alkaloid that is derived from the Iboga shrub.

7:27

The Iboga shrub originates in the central Congo Basin.

7:33

Its native country is modern-day Gabon.

7:35

It is the mother country of the Iboga shrub, which has been used for centuries

7:40

in the spiritual and cultural traditions of the Bwiti,

7:44

a group of spiritualists who include the Pygmies as well as the Bantu tribes

7:50

that live there in Gabon.

7:53

In the early 60s, it was discovered that Ibogaine and Iboga had a significant

7:59

interruption effect on opioid addiction.

8:02

There was an individual who had been addicted to heroin for a number of years.

8:07

They took Ibogaine, and not only did they not experience any withdrawal when

8:12

they stopped taking heroin,

8:14

they stopped having any desire to use any drug whatsoever.

8:17

This touched off 60 years of open-label field studies that are mountains high

8:26

and decades wide

8:27

that firmly established that Ibogaine has a unique and singular interruption

8:34

capacity on physiological substance dependency,

8:37

whether that's opioids, alcohol, methamphetamine, cocaine, or tobacco.

8:43

Recent evidence also suggests that it has a significant interruption effect on

8:48

compulsive behaviors.

8:49

Anything that kind of impacts that brain's dopamine system and produces a rush.

8:54

Particularly gambling.

8:55

Yes, sir.

8:56

Now, in 2018, U.S. Special Forces special operators started going to Mexico for

9:02

treatment of symptoms of traumatic brain injury,

9:05

expressed through treatment-resistant depression, anxiety, and suicidality.

9:10

Many of these veterans had gone through the VA system.

9:14

They had been given an unbelievable amount of synthetic pharmacology that, in

9:19

their end effect,

9:20

essentially anesthetizes the soul and slowly euthanizes the body.

9:27

And they were at the end.

9:27

So, as they were going to Mexico and would get Ibogaine treatment,

9:31

they came back with these just unbelievably, just powerful recovery results

9:37

that seemed too good to be true.

9:42

So, there were some scientists at Stanford University that were funded by a

9:47

philanthropist who wanted to understand what was going on.

9:49

And so, what we have come to learn through a Stanford research study on

9:53

traumatic brain injury for vets

9:55

is that Ibogaine has remarkable neuro-regenerative capacities on the brain that

10:02

are unheard of in the annals of Western science.

10:06

And while information is still very small in amount and preliminary,

10:11

there are individuals who have had Ibogaine treatment for not just traumatic

10:17

brain injury,

10:18

but for multiple sclerosis, Lyme disease, Parkinson's disease, post-surgical

10:24

complications related to the removal of brain tumor

10:27

who endorse a restoration of functionality and an ability to live that are

10:32

otherworldly.

10:34

And as we recognize that the opportunities to improve the human condition at

10:39

scale are multi-lifetime in appearing,

10:41

we believe that we have found one of those.

10:44

And if we're going to do justice to the human species,

10:49

it is incumbent upon us to take what appears to be a promising therapeutic

10:54

improvement

10:55

and deliver it with speed through the U.S. medical systems.

10:59

And that's what Governor Perry and I have founded Americans for Ibogaine to do.

11:03

Just that.

11:04

Achieve the moonshot of our time.

11:06

And that is to bring Ibogaine medicine to the American people as quickly as

11:10

possible.

11:11

Well said.

11:13

And thank you again, Governor Perry,

11:17

because if it wasn't for your involvement in this,

11:19

I think a lot of people would be far more skeptical.

11:22

You know, you being a former distinguished governor of the state who is a

11:27

Republican,

11:27

generally speaking, most people think of Republicans being anti-psychedelics

11:33

and that this whole thing is just a bunch of people trying to escape reality

11:37

and poison their mind and, you know, tune out of society and become losers.

11:42

That's the general consensus of people that are just, for lack of a better term,

11:50

ignorant of the effects of these substances.

11:52

They don't understand it.

11:53

But if it wasn't for you, your open-mindedness,

11:57

your willingness to engage in this and try to understand it

12:02

and to speak to these veterans,

12:04

I don't think people would be taken into seriously.

12:06

So thank you.

12:08

Well, and thank you.

12:10

As I've watched you over the last 15 months,

12:14

it seemed like ever six weeks or so,

12:17

you'd have a guest on here and you'd be talking about Ibogaine in particular

12:22

and what is the progress that we're making.

12:25

What comes up so often.

12:26

Yeah.

12:27

Well, and it should.

12:28

It should.

12:28

It should because this truly, I mean,

12:32

this is not what I came into the world for.

12:35

This is not what I came to politics for.

12:37

This is what, you know,

12:38

I got led to this through that relationship with Marcus and, in turn, Morgan Luttrell

12:44

and seeing those two boys literally, particularly Marcus,

12:48

on the doorstep of committing suicide.

12:51

When he came to live with us at the governor's mansion in 2007,

12:55

we had met the year before just by the grace of God.

12:58

And I told him, I said, if you're ever through Austin, come by and see me,

13:01

knowing that the chances of that would be pretty slim.

13:06

He knocked on that guard door in May of 2007 and said,

13:11

the governor said, if I was ever through here, come by and see him.

13:13

They called.

13:14

I let him in for dinner.

13:16

And my wife, who's a nurse,

13:18

she recognized this young man who was really troubled,

13:22

addicted to opioids,

13:25

masking it with alcohol,

13:27

really sick.

13:29

And for the next two and a half years,

13:31

he lived with us at the governor's residence.

13:34

Wow.

13:34

And that started this long journey,

13:38

literally,

13:39

with him

13:42

and trying to find ways to heal him.

13:45

We sent him to a host of different places,

13:47

Carrick Brain Center in Dallas.

13:48

We sent him to what's called now Axios,

13:51

Athletes Performance in those days,

13:54

but a great rehab facility down in the panhandle of Florida.

13:59

And they helped him conquer

14:02

or helped him manage the opioid addiction.

14:07

I will suggest to you until he was treated with Ibogaine,

14:11

which did clean that completely away from him some years later.

14:18

But the point is he really struggled.

14:21

And he has become like our son.

14:25

As a matter of fact, I talked to him this morning.

14:28

He said, be sure and tell Joe howdy for me.

14:29

He just thinks the world of you as well.

14:32

I talked to his brother the day before.

14:34

They understand how powerful this compound is

14:39

from the standpoint of treating post-traumatic stress,

14:42

traumatic brain injury, addictions.

14:45

And as I became convinced, one of the things that I will say that I've been

14:57

open to change,

14:59

just like criminal justice reform.

15:00

In the early 2000s, I was kind of like, lock their ass up, throw the key under

15:04

the jail.

15:05

You know, you break the law in the state of Texas, here's how we treat you.

15:10

And I had a district judge in Fort Worth, John Crusoe, a Democrat district

15:16

judge,

15:16

who I knew and had been friends with.

15:18

He said, Governor, we got a program here that allows these individuals who have

15:25

broken the law,

15:26

you know, they've maybe, you know, got caught with an illegal substance or what

15:31

have you.

15:32

And rather than sending them to jail, sending them to the penitentiary,

15:38

where they become professional criminals, we give them a second chance.

15:44

We put them in a rehab program.

15:45

We put them in a treatment center.

15:47

We put them in a boot camp.

15:48

You know, give them these options rather than sending them to prison

15:53

where they're going to become professional criminals.

15:56

And the recidivism rate is going to continue on.

15:59

You know, I'm kind of like, nope, I'm tough on crime.

16:05

That's what us Republicans do.

16:07

But it really got me thinking.

16:10

I mean, I am curious-minded about concepts and ideas.

16:16

So that brought me to having conversations, and, you know, long story short,

16:21

that single conversation led to Texas leading the nation with criminal justice

16:30

reform.

16:31

Texas Public Policy Foundation that now Secretary of Agriculture,

16:37

Brooke Rollins, was operating in the mid to late 2000s.

16:44

They came on board, saw this, supported it.

16:47

We passed it through a very Republican, very conservative legislature.

16:53

And Texas led the nation in criminal justice reform.

16:57

Saved us billions of dollars.

16:59

We stopped building prisons.

17:01

We stopped sending people to prison where they were becoming professional

17:04

criminals.

17:05

So that template, if you will, was what we took to Donald Trump in 2018.

17:14

And he was just like me initially.

17:18

I'm tough on crime.

17:19

But he was open.

17:23

He was curious.

17:24

Brooke Rollins, interestingly, had come up and was his domestic policy advisor

17:31

at that time.

17:32

And she made the pitch.

17:33

And he was open.

17:34

And that conversation led to him being open to federal criminal justice reform.

17:41

And today, there are people who, I mean, you know, you may have different ideas

17:49

about President Trump and what have you.

17:51

I know that's the case.

17:52

But on this issue of criminal justice reform, this man was curious.

17:56

He was open-minded.

17:57

And he's made a real difference in people's lives following the Texas model.

18:04

The reason I share that with you as an example, that's where I was on these

18:10

compounds, these drugs, these psychedelics.

18:14

I mean, I grew up in the 60s.

18:17

Timothy O'Leary, using LSD, marijuana, any of that kind of stuff.

18:23

I mean, it was anathema to me, absolutely and totally.

18:27

I don't have anything to do with it.

18:29

This is crazy stuff.

18:31

You get in trouble.

18:31

They'll throw you in jail.

18:33

You'll jump off of buildings.

18:35

I mean, every story that you can imagine that people.

18:39

And then think about from the 60s forward how, you know, I went into the Air

18:46

Force.

18:47

They, you know, we took drug tests at least monthly.

18:53

So the idea of being involved with a drug was just totally and absolutely not

18:59

on my radar screen.

19:00

These are bad things.

19:02

And we're reinforced in the 80s with Mrs. Reagan.

19:06

Just say no to drugs.

19:08

Here's your brain on drugs.

19:10

I mean, we have been browbeat as a society for 60 years.

19:16

And when you add to it what Nixon did, President Nixon did in the late 60s,

19:21

early 70s, with his war on drugs, he hated hippies, he hated blacks.

19:28

And one of the ways you could go after them was to go make these compounds

19:33

Schedule I, which he did.

19:35

Schedule I says there is no medical purpose for it, and it is highly addictive.

19:40

Ibogaine fits neither of those.

19:44

Ibogaine is not an addictive compound by any sense of the imagination.

19:48

It's also absolutely not a recreational compound.

19:51

No, at all.

19:51

It's not something that someone's going to do at a party.

19:53

And we are proving without a doubt to the Texas legislature, to legislatures

19:59

across this country, in Mississippi, in Tennessee, in Arizona, West Virginia,

20:04

that it does have a medical purpose.

20:07

That there are some extraordinary things that can happen for their citizens who

20:12

have PTSD, who have sexual trauma, who have addictions.

20:16

I mean, saving lives by the thousands, hundreds of thousands, I will suggest to

20:22

you, when this is approved across the country.

20:26

And we see it as a relatively easily studied and accessed by medical care

20:33

compound.

20:35

So that story of seeing these two young men, who have given everything,

20:44

literally, up to willing to give their lives, and a lot of their friends did,

20:52

for our freedoms and our liberties in this country.

20:57

And for us to say to them, oh, sorry, you can't have access to this because,

21:01

you know, they're, you know, President Nixon said this was bad stuff back 60

21:07

years ago.

21:08

And it was taken off the shelf as a schedule one drug, put over here, and for

21:14

60 years, Americans have suffered through so many different eras, the late 90s,

21:25

when the Sackler family and Purdue Pharma comes along.

21:29

And we literally, I think one of the most demonic things I've seen in my public

21:35

life is this family who used oxycodone and sold it to America as this be-all,

21:44

end-all, and then our federal government in the mid-2000s.

21:49

We didn't know how to deal with these young men who would be put in these

21:54

horrible conditions and positions of being at war time after time after time,

22:01

rotation after rotation, tempos that we'd never seen before.

22:06

In the history of mankind, I'll suggest to you, I mean, Joe, we were at war for

22:10

20 years, 20 years during that period of time.

22:13

There's, you know, special operators that were deployed eight, nine, 10 times,

22:19

and then they come home, and the government gives them a sack of opioids, and

22:24

that makes them feel crappy, and they mask it with alcohol.

22:28

And we sit around and go, why did Bobby kill himself?

22:35

Well, because the government failed in its great responsibility to take care of

22:40

these young men and women, in my opinion.

22:43

So we owe it to them.

22:45

As a matter of fact, a dear friend of mine who just passed away within the last

22:50

two days, he had worked with me for, gosh, 30 years.

22:58

And when he first saw that I was getting involved with this psychedelic drug,

23:08

this ibogaine compound, and we were having a conversation.

23:15

He said, you need to be really careful with that.

23:17

You know, you've got a great reputation.

23:19

You spent 40 years building that reputation up.

23:21

He said, you don't want to throw it away on some cockamamie idea here.

23:26

And I told him, I said, well, I don't think I'm doing that.

23:30

I've studied this pretty intently.

23:33

I've talked to a host of different people.

23:36

And I said, so I'm comfortable about the science here that I'm seeing and what

23:43

have you, and I think it's worth going forward with.

23:49

But I said, Ray, their lives are not worth more than my reputation.

23:56

And that's what kind of continues to drive me.

24:00

There are people that still kind of say, why are you doing this?

24:03

Because I believe in it.

24:04

I mean, I believe it to the point, Joe, that I'm willing to risk my reputation.

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I don't think you're risking your reputation at all.

25:35

I think that's foolish thinking.

25:38

I think it's people that don't understand the times.

25:41

This is a different world.

25:43

We're living in a world of information now, and you can't go by these false

25:48

narratives that were adopted in the 1970s.

25:51

And we're winning.

25:53

I mean, I'm telling you what Americans for Ibogaine has done.

25:56

And, you know, we started out, I tell people, I said, you talk about a small

25:59

group of people.

26:00

I think there were six of us.

26:01

He's the CEO.

26:02

I'm the chairman.

26:03

We got Dr. Rulon, who's the secretary.

26:06

Ann Clare Stapleton, the communications person.

26:10

And then Marcus and Melanie Luttrell, Marcus's wife, are the other two members

26:15

of our little board.

26:17

And we were this small little group kind of going along and doing what we were

26:21

doing.

26:22

We were successful in the Texas legislature and what have you.

26:26

But it's exploded now.

26:28

We have ambassadors, Americans for Ibogaine ambassadors, all over the United

26:34

States now.

26:36

People have seen what we've been able to do in Texas.

26:41

Mississippi followed suit.

26:43

They sent their governor a piece of legislation.

26:46

I want you to talk about that.

26:47

We're going to do the roll call here.

26:49

Yeah.

26:49

And just share with Joe and his audience just the great progress that's being

26:55

made.

26:57

And quite frankly, I think about Michael Dell when he was selling computers out

27:03

of the trunk of his car back in the late 80s and then his college dormitory.

27:08

AFI kind of found itself like that just a few months ago.

27:13

And I'm not trying to say that we're Dell Computer today, but we are growing at

27:20

such a leaps and bounds

27:22

and having the resources that we need to be able to put our people in various

27:27

places.

27:27

I mean, he travels all – you were in Cabo.

27:30

I want you to tell him about the group that you met with in Cabo.

27:34

I mean, just 200 of these extraordinary people down there.

27:37

He travels all over the country.

27:39

And we have to have the resources to be able to do that.

27:44

And so I hope the folks that are listening go to Americans for Ibogaine.

27:50

You know how to tell them how to do that and help this organization because

27:54

this is what I'm going to do the rest of my life.

27:57

I'm 76 years old, and this is what I hope the Lord gives me a lot of years to

28:03

make a difference

28:05

because I know for a fact that what we're doing today, what you're helping us

28:10

with, is making a difference.

28:12

And if we can get these clinical trials to the conclusion – and, you know,

28:17

thank you to the lieutenant governor

28:18

and to the speaker for what they committed to today.

28:21

I mean, to know that we're going to be able to go forward now with these

28:25

clinical trials,

28:26

to show the world exactly what we know so that the naysayers out there, the

28:33

skeptic, can look at that and go,

28:35

you know what?

28:36

You can get 85 percent of the people who are hooked on opioids clean in 72

28:44

hours.

28:45

Isn't that an amazing thing?

28:47

I mean, that's such a stunning thing to me.

28:49

Dr. Gull Dolan, we were at South by Southwest a week and a half ago.

28:54

She was sitting on the stage.

28:55

She's an MD, PhD, was at Johns Hopkins.

28:58

She's over at Cal Berkeley now.

29:01

And she gave a little primer, if you will, on the different psychedelics.

29:11

There's a critical period that the mind opens up and you're able to go in and,

29:17

if you will,

29:18

the medicine treats the mind, I think, from my Aggie, you know, non-pharmaceutical,

29:23

non-scientific mind here.

29:25

But to go in and repair, reset the brain, the technical word is neuroplasticity.

29:36

Ketamine has a critical period, I think she said 48 to 72 hours.

29:45

Psilocybin has a critical period from 14 to 28 days.

29:54

I think I'm pretty close on these.

29:56

But Ibogaine, the critical period, the time when that neuroplasticity is active

30:03

and the brain can be trained, healed, reset, is from 90 to 120 days.

30:14

And then with the addiction, opioids, which I happen to think is one of the

30:18

most addictive substances that's out there.

30:21

I mean, this is some horrible stuff.

30:22

You know, this very current event with Tiger Woods and Tiger's accident.

30:29

You know, he had Oxycontin in his – you know, I'm not judging here, but I'm

30:35

just kind of saying that may –

30:37

when I ran for president in 2011, I'd had major back surgery in July.

30:42

I announced that I was running for president in August.

30:46

I had six weeks to try to get over that major back surgery, and I had a

30:50

terrible condition called a neurological hyperfusion in my right leg.

30:56

I've never had a pain like that.

30:57

It felt like a blowtorch going down my right leg.

31:00

And they gave me Oxycontin.

31:02

And I was taking that to cover up the pain.

31:06

I was taking Ambien to go to sleep at night, and I was taking some stuff called

31:10

ProVigil to get back up in the morning and be focused.

31:13

I laugh about it now.

31:15

I'm surprised I did as well as I did in that presidential effort in 2011.

31:22

Hell, forgetting that one thing – that third thing in that debate.

31:26

Hell, I'm surprised I could remember any of them.

31:29

Knowing what I know now about Oxycontin and the incredibly nasty, addictive

31:36

nature that it has.

31:38

I mean, this stuff is just poison.

31:39

I mean, this stuff is just poison.

31:41

And Ibogaine, in 48 to 72 hours, after one dose, one oral application of this

31:55

compound,

31:58

and that addiction has gone, Joe, but Stanford has done functional MRIs on an

32:11

addicted opioid brain.

32:16

And then treatment with Ibogaine, and they have shown that brain from the

32:23

addicted look that those experts,

32:26

those postdocs that look at this, to a normal brain, a normal brain scan in 72

32:36

hours.

32:37

If you were to go through the normal process of healing yourself of opioid

32:46

addiction through an abstinence program,

32:49

it would take you 18 months.

32:51

And there are very few – I'm going to say single-digit people that are

32:55

successful in being able to do that.

32:57

But think about that.

32:58

We've got a compound here that has the ability to heal people of opioid

33:05

addiction in 48 to 72 hours.

33:08

And we're not doing everything that we can in our power to make that available?

33:16

I mean, what the hell is wrong with us?

33:19

How bad you got to hate people to not make that available?

33:22

And with two doses, it's even more spectacular.

33:27

98%.

33:28

That is amazing.

33:30

98%.

33:31

That is truly amazing.

33:33

There's nothing even remotely like it with standard practice addiction therapy.

33:38

Nothing.

33:39

Nothing.

33:39

You know, he mentioned the Americans for Ibogaine.

33:43

We have ambassadors.

33:45

And, Joe, what you really helped us do on January 2nd of 25 was create a

33:50

movement.

33:52

Our organization is the custodian of that movement.

33:56

We are a public policy and advocacy organization.

33:59

And Governor Perry mentions keeping me on the road.

34:02

Wherever there are state leaders, citizens of conviction and influence, whether

34:07

that is California, whether it's Massachusetts, or whether it's Alabama, we

34:12

exist to plant the seed of a scientific understanding, of a public policy

34:18

framework, and of a spiritual understanding of the significance of what we have

34:22

in our hands here.

34:23

And while we have talked about Ibogaine's impact on substance dependence on

34:30

substance dependence, and upon the wounds of war, our ambassadors reflect,

34:36

essentially, the universal human condition, and the way in which individuals

34:42

who have tried every way to overcome various forms of trauma and debility,

34:48

find as the last step, a redemptive restoration through Ibogaine treatment.

34:55

It is not for everybody.

34:57

It should not be a first resort.

34:59

It is an exceptionally powerful medication that comes with a series of side

35:05

effects that are highly unpleasant, as you previously mentioned.

35:10

Now, one of the selling points, ironically, in the Texas legislature was to say,

35:14

you know, if your idea of a good time is being in a state of semi-paralysis for

35:18

12 to 16 hours and throwing up continuously through the process, you're going

35:24

to have a real good time.

35:26

And if there is the equivalent of being brought to the judgment throne of God

35:30

on this side of life, it is an Ibogaine experience.

35:33

That seemed to motivate a lot of support, especially for those who subscribe to

35:37

puritanical notions of punishment for wrongdoing.

35:41

That's not what I'm here to advocate, but certainly it is not fun.

35:45

But what we know is that, for instance, we have two fashion model twins whose

35:52

father sexually abused them for a decade.

35:57

And the results of that horrific experience that they shared produced all kinds

36:03

of psychological maladies that included an eating disorder for one, persistent

36:10

neuroses in the other.

36:12

They tried every form of talk therapy.

36:14

They tried every psychotherapy modality known to try to overcome that.

36:19

And it was Ibogaine that restored their lives and their capacity to enjoy the

36:24

life that God has given them.

36:27

We have first responders who are emerging in numbers.

36:30

One who is a firefighter from Oklahoma who was demoted because of decades of

36:35

alcoholism.

36:36

His life has been restored by Ibogaine and he's back working full time.

36:40

We have a gentleman who was a Charlottesville police officer who was hit in the

36:45

face with a brick during the riots that occurred in Charlottesville.

36:50

His life was restored by a single Ibogaine treatment and he has attained a

36:53

level of functionality that he didn't think was possible, nor his doctors.

36:57

We have a gentleman who was a pilot who unfortunately did a bomb and run on a

37:03

village and killed a number of innocent people.

37:07

So he learned about this and this sent him into a spiral, as many war fighters

37:12

who are exposed to moral injury do.

37:14

Ibogaine has restored this gentleman's life.

37:18

We have a gentleman by the name of Robert Gallery, a former NFL player who

37:23

exhibited all the signs of CTE in his post-retirement years.

37:28

He was ready to kill himself so that he wouldn't harm his own family.

37:33

It was Ibogaine that restored his life.

37:35

There have been other NFL players who are as yet unnamed.

37:38

Some, incidentally, that have been in the paper who have gone for Ibogaine

37:42

treatment to address similar symptoms.

37:44

Players in the NHL.

37:46

Players in other contact sports that include soccer and rugby and the United

37:50

Kingdom where there is an emerging cohort of professional athletes who have

37:55

reached out to us to say,

37:57

we want the United Kingdom for Ibogaine.

38:00

I would love to get you guys connected with the UFC.

38:02

We would love to be connected to the UFC.

38:05

Because that is obviously an issue with professional fighters.

38:09

Hughes, Matt Hughes, and Matt had – I met Matt through Marcus, gosh, in like

38:18

2008 or so, and we went out for a fight.

38:21

And then subsequently, Matt had, I think, a car accident of which he really had

38:28

38:29

He's hit by a train.

38:30

Yeah, just an incredible traumatic brain injury.

38:35

And I just want to – I want to have that conversation with him.

38:40

And I'm sure you have great relationships with those.

38:44

We know for a fact that cumulative impacts on the brain are what lead to CTE.

38:54

I mean, that's – I don't think that's even a question of – here's how it

38:59

happens.

39:00

These multiple concussions have cumulative effect on the brain.

39:05

And at some point in time, that CTE has a long-time effect.

39:13

And this medicine has the ability to remove that trauma, to reset that brain,

39:24

to heal that brain.

39:27

I don't know how it works, Joe.

39:28

But that's the reason these clinical trials are going to be so important as we're

39:32

going forward.

39:34

And I can't tell you – I'm ecstatic that the lieutenant governor and the

39:39

speaker today announced their full Texas support behind these clinical trials.

39:47

We're fixing to become the epicenter for a movement that literally can change

39:52

the world.

39:53

And I know that sounds kind of a little bit over the top.

39:58

But if we have within our grasp here a compound that can heal our loved ones

40:05

who have an addiction, be it a substance addiction or be it a non-substance

40:11

addiction,

40:12

if we have the ability to heal people who have been traumatically impacted by

40:18

concussions,

40:19

if we have the ability to address PTSD in all the different forms that it comes

40:26

– I mean, the hope that that can give to the society that we live in.

40:31

And I'm not talking about just the United States.

40:34

You think about what's going on in Israel, in Ukraine, in the Middle East today,

40:40

in the trauma that people are facing.

40:42

I mean, this truly can be an extraordinary gift to the world.

40:48

And, you know, listen, I think it's really interesting you ask a leading

40:54

question about how did I come to this position of being able to be supportive

41:04

as I am.

41:05

And when I think about my growing up – and I grew up in a very conservative

41:12

Christian family.

41:14

And I think one of the challenges we still have in our society is that the

41:23

conservative Christian faith is like, stay away from that stuff.

41:30

I mean, that's bad.

41:32

Do not – and under any circumstances, don't be going there.

41:37

It's demonic.

41:38

And there's a book that's about to be published.

41:43

I think is it about – I think the first week in April.

41:46

So we're approaching it.

41:48

There's an author by the name of Wendy Reese, R-E-E-S, and Wendy with an I, W-E-N-D-I-R-E-E-S.

41:58

And she, not unlike the two twins, was sexually assaulted by her own father.

42:06

He was a pastor of a church.

42:08

Joe, I'm telling you, brother, I can't dream up in my worst nightmare a more

42:15

evil thing than a father that would sexually assault their –

42:21

A preacher father.

42:22

Their daughter.

42:22

And she dealt with it with Ibogaine and has come to the conclusion that her

42:30

great gift to give to the world out there is to write this book called A

42:35

Christian's Guide to Psychedelics.

42:38

Now, if you think that won't catch some people's attention when they're going

42:42

through the bookstore and they've got A Christian's Guide to Psychedelics, holy

42:45

mackerel.

42:47

But this is a book about her experience, but it's also a book that I would

42:54

suggest that every believe in Christian – go pick it up and read it because

43:00

it talks about chapter and verse and gives you scripture about where God talks

43:05

about these compounds, about these things that he's given the world.

43:09

He means them for good, all of them for good.

43:12

Are you aware of the scholars in Israel that are proposing that Moses seeing

43:18

the burning bush was the acacia tree?

43:22

Yeah.

43:23

There's an acacia tree.

43:25

The acacia tree, which is very common in the Middle East, is rich in dimethyltryptamine.

43:31

And they believe that what they're trying to relay in this story was that Moses

43:37

encountered God through the burning of this bush.

43:42

So the burning of this bush, releasing the psychedelic compound dimethyltryptamine,

43:48

allowed Moses to bring back the Ten Commandments.

43:52

You know, thank you for mentioning that.

43:55

I have been following scholarship around the use and the recognition that there's

44:01

a lot of psychedelic allegory in Holy Scripture.

44:04

That, I think, is the favorite, where that burning bush reveals the great I am.

44:11

And when Moses says, you know, who are you?

44:14

I am who I am.

44:15

And the beauty about Ibogaine and the other plant medicines are their capacity

44:20

to reveal the I am that is within each of us.

44:24

And that I am as our eternal creator who absolutely has engineered and placed

44:29

these plants on this earth so that we can be affirmed in what our true identity

44:34

and ultimate destiny is.

44:36

And praise God for it.

44:37

And then there's also the sacred mushroom in the cross, the John Marco Allegro

44:43

book, where he was one of the ordained ministers that was – his task was to

44:49

decode the Dead Sea Scrolls.

44:52

And he wrote this book that details what he believes is the use of psychedelic

44:57

drugs in ancient Christianity.

44:59

Hard for me to argue with.

45:04

I mean, I just think our modern perception of it, which is very tainted by what

45:09

happened during the Nixon administration, where they were trying to squash the

45:13

hippie movement, the anti-war movement, and the civil rights movement.

45:17

And that's why they demonized these drugs and these compounds.

45:20

And that's why they put them in this category of having no medicinal use, which

45:25

is clearly not accurate.

45:27

It doesn't mean that they should just be given to everyone and everyone should

45:31

do them with no restrictions and no regulations.

45:34

It just means we should understand that they have a long history of human use

45:39

and have spectacular results on all sorts of things that our society is

45:45

suffering from greatly.

45:47

And to just pretend that that's not the case based on what happened in the 1970s

45:53

is just insane.

45:55

It doesn't make any sense.

45:58

I would suggest that one of the greatest lessons learned by Americans who are

46:02

age 50 and younger, those of us who I call the bicentennial children, is that

46:08

the most morally depraved criminal in America today is power.

46:13

And the power of the human hand, when it is wielded in its most abusive context,

46:18

will always seek to deny any access to individual human divinity and the

46:23

liberty and autonomy that is conferred upon each of us as children of God.

46:29

And insofar as we find ourselves at the precipice of what I believe is the

46:33

emergence of a broad-based spiritual movement where all of us modernists within

46:38

the empiricism of modern American society are able to see through the fog of

46:43

all of our wealth and gadgetry and recognize we are in the midst of profound

46:49

spiritual famine in the United States.

46:53

You, I know, and forgive me for referencing age, remember back in the mid-80s

47:01

where we saw all these horrific images of starvation and dissension and fly-covered

47:10

death from mass famine in Ethiopia and Sudan,

47:15

where millions of millions of people starved to death because the malevolence

47:20

of power forbade the delivery of any relief sent by the outside world.

47:26

When we look at what's right in front of us in the United States today, there

47:33

is no denying that we are in the midst of a terrible spiritual famine.

47:41

And the malevolence of American power is feasting on our starvation.

47:47

This is an emancipation movement for the mind, body, and soul of every human

47:54

being in this country and across the globe who is lethally estranged from their

48:01

own spirituality.

48:03

The Ibogaine mission is a mission to foment dramatic medical breakthroughs

48:08

across a host of conditions that have no effective therapeutic answers.

48:14

But above and beyond that, it is about the affirmation of the spiritual essence

48:20

of life that can unify us as a species in a way that is necessary if we're

48:25

going to navigate these changes over the next 20 years.

48:28

Governor Perry mentioned this wonderful invitation that I received to go to

48:33

what was called the Earth One Summit.

48:36

Now, Joe, I come out of Hillbilly Holler, Virginia.

48:41

And it's a...

48:45

I do.

48:45

I introduce him from time to time.

48:49

I said, look, this guy, he looks like and he sounds like a hillbilly from

48:55

eastern Kentucky in the Appalachian Mountains.

48:59

And I said, he is.

49:01

But I said, he's one of the most brilliant people I've ever met in my life and

49:06

one of the most extraordinary orators I've ever had in my life.

49:09

So anyway, I wanted to...

49:11

I love you, brother, but you are a hillbilly.

49:13

Wow.

49:15

I'm much more comfortable with that than all that other stuff you said.

49:18

But, you know, when you come out of scratch, nothing sometimes there are

49:22

certain sophistications that you lack.

49:24

And I'm no exception to that.

49:26

So there was this Earth One Summit.

49:28

It was 200 thought leaders from across the world who came to basically discuss

49:33

the future.

49:34

And I was very honored to have received an invitation to come and attend the

49:40

gathering to speak about what Governor Perry and I are working on through

49:44

Americans for Ibogaine.

49:45

And they presented me with the honor of being the closing keynote speaker for

49:49

the gathering.

49:52

And as I listened over the course of four days, I heard individuals who

49:57

included Kimball and Christiana Musk.

50:01

And I've read interviews by Elon Musk speaking about the advent of AI and the

50:07

capacity of AI to solve the central dilemma that we as humans have had since we

50:12

emerged from the caves.

50:15

So as I was there listening to folks speak about being on the edge of a time

50:23

when we can automate the means of production and essentially create an

50:30

unlimited amount of abundance for every person on this planet,

50:35

I couldn't help but think about where we are right now as compared to where

50:41

these individuals see us being in 20 years.

50:47

You cannot create and deploy this kind of godlike technology, which has the

50:56

capacity to produce unlimited abundance, potentially usher in the age of Aquarius,

51:02

and drop it in to these Frankenstein monstrosity government systems that we

51:10

currently have that are enthroned upon the helplessness of powerless people,

51:17

that perpetuate problems that they are supposed to solve, and that monetize

51:21

sustained human misery.

51:23

So long as government makes its buck over keeping its foot on the necks of the

51:29

American people,

51:30

we are looking at a future that much more resembles Mad Max than we are Star

51:35

Trek.

51:36

And if we are going to create the degree of social cohesion that is necessary

51:40

to hold these systems accountable and to create a system that can truly

51:46

usher in that age of unlimited abundance to improve the human condition for all,

51:52

it begins with a spiritual reawakening that I began first and foremost and the

51:57

rest of the psychedelics concede and foment within American society.

52:01

To that end.

52:02

And then I'll be quiet for the next little bit.

52:04

No, no, you're good, man.

52:05

We love listening to you.

52:08

There is a six-part docu-series that will come out next year called Psychedelics

52:13

And.

52:13

And it is a series of interviews with a cross-section of leaders across the

52:20

United States where they speak about their own quest for meaning and how

52:27

psychedelics has helped them understand that we are more than just these

52:31

material beings that get up and go to work every day and are a productive

52:35

economic unit, go home and repeat.

52:37

That there is a much higher sense of purpose that we are here to serve and that

52:42

the plants themselves have the capacity to enlighten us at scale in a way that's

52:47

absolutely necessary if we're going to make that age of abundance happen as

52:51

those visionaries articulate and dream for.

52:56

What I think is fascinating about the age that we're living in is that change

53:00

comes very slowly, but it comes much faster when you have the kind of access to

53:05

information that people have today.

53:07

And I don't think this conversation was possible 20 years ago.

53:11

No, no way.

53:12

And that's kind of amazing.

53:13

No way.

53:14

It's kind of amazing.

53:15

And I don't think that there was a format for this conversation 20 years ago.

53:19

This format has occurred because of the age of information, because of the

53:23

Internet, and because there's no gatekeepers anymore, and because people have

53:28

the choice to decide what they want to consume, what they want to listen to.

53:34

And to be able to be a part of that, to me, is an incredible privilege, and to

53:39

be able to have you guys on and to have this conversation and to recognize that

53:45

the reason why this is possible is because, for lack of a better term, the

53:50

world's waking up.

53:52

Yes, sir.

53:53

It's just taking more time than we would like, but the world is waking up, and

53:58

change happens.

54:00

It just happens.

54:01

People have to change their opinions, and that's very difficult, because a lot

54:07

of people identify with their opinions.

54:10

Their opinions become a part of their ideology, and it's just very difficult to

54:15

get people to change their ideology.

54:18

They identify with this.

54:20

It is them.

54:22

And I've always tried to tell people, the way I try to approach things, you are

54:27

not your ideas.

54:28

You are not your opinions.

54:30

These are just thoughts, and if you identify with them, you are trapped in them,

54:36

and you will be held hostage by them.

54:38

You will try to defend them, even if they don't make sense.

54:41

You will try to ignore evidence that points you in a direction that's contrary

54:45

to what your current belief system is.

54:47

Don't be your opinions.

54:49

Don't be your ideas.

54:51

just sit in them be consistent be honest have ethics and morals that you adhere

54:57

to

54:58

but the ideas are just ideas and if you're wrong you should be proud to say

55:04

wrong it's a it's a

55:05

sign of growth it's a sign of intelligence and it's a sign of you being an

55:10

honest human being

55:11

who cares about the truth not about being right because there's too many people

55:16

in this world that

55:17

they don't really have conversations they have ideological sparring matches

55:23

where they just

55:24

involved in these little intellectual tugs of war where they're just trying to

55:29

be right

55:30

and this is not the time for that this it's just so my my going from hard no on

55:41

criminal justice reform

55:44

to literally a leader on criminal justice reform in the mid-2000s my going from

55:52

hard no on uh any psychedelic drugs that could be used in any way uh to now

55:59

being what i've

56:00

humorously referred to as the johnny apple seed of ibogaine um is to your point

56:07

you know be

56:11

be be open be willing to say you were wrong uh i know my wife would like to

56:16

hear me do that more

56:18

often but hey i i if you don't mind i want to take a minute and talk about how

56:25

far this movement has come and uh brian talked about americans for ibogaine and

56:33

our ambassadors all

56:34

across the country and the growth that that we've seen in this and i want to

56:38

give you one example of

56:40

to your point of that five years ago uh if you had had an institution uh that

56:46

had its own reputation

56:48

dealing with brain health and brain science and those kind of things uh they

56:52

would have just kind of

56:54

moved you off to the side and said you know no thanks but the center for brain

57:00

health in dallas

57:01

this is an extraordinary institution uh that's connected to the university of

57:07

texas dallas matter

57:08

of fact it's just next door to ut southwestern which is one of the great

57:12

medical facilities in the world

57:14

ut southwestern and dr uh sandy chapman heads up uh the center for brain health

57:22

uh and they've they've done

57:23

some some some great work we went up and presented to her i don't know probably

57:29

60 to 90 days ago and

57:32

and uh there was another uh organization called uh forward forward intent

57:39

forward intent uh just a

57:42

beautiful young uh man and his wife uh alex duran and and his wife uh who have

57:50

funded an effort and what

57:53

they're what they're doing with their resources they're sending i think 250

57:58

individuals down to mexico

58:02

uh to both i think a facility uh called transcend and to ambio uh and ambio is

58:08

the is that facility

58:11

that i've been to brian's been to uh marcus and and and uh morgan latrell have

58:16

been to i think you

58:17

know probably 2 000 more fighters been down to ambio now uh vets underwrites

58:23

them um and just as an aside

58:27

this has blown up so big and i'm talking about the the ibogaine effort the

58:32

education of ibogaine

58:34

people you know there's some hope out there and and people are rushing to find

58:39

where they can go to

58:41

you know to treat the addiction that their loved one hands or deal with their ptsd

58:45

and what have you

58:46

and and ambio uh is just covered up uh and i'm sure you know the other

58:51

facilities uh are as well down

58:54

there the the the organization vets which is really where i came into this uh i

58:59

think amber and marcus

59:02

capone um they don't have they don't have any openings anymore i mean they are

59:06

completely covered

59:08

up uh and and but i mean that's a good challenge i'm glad we have that

59:12

challenge but my point is you've

59:14

got a an institution in dallas texas that just like the state is getting the

59:22

signal it's okay to be out

59:25

there talking about this it's okay to uh to be a leader it's okay to get out

59:29

there and and and lead

59:30

the charge and i want to read to you uh what uh dr chapman um because i asked

59:36

her i said do you mind if

59:37

i talk about what you all are doing and she said absolutely and she said

59:41

governor great to talk with

59:43

you yesterday here are some comments to guide you and how to discuss our

59:47

existing collaboration

59:48

i'm excited to announce that we have begun a partnership with the center for

59:54

brain health

59:55

university of texas at dallas americans for ibogaine and forward intent to

1:00:00

create the largest research study

1:00:03

of ibogaine to date focused on understanding its impact on the brain among the

1:00:10

veteran community

1:00:12

dr francesca philby an expert in cognitive and translational neuroscience

1:00:18

especially the use of

1:00:19

neuroimaging to study brain behavior relationships will lead the research our

1:00:25

mission together is to move

1:00:26

beyond the question of does ibogaine help and instead answer the more practical

1:00:32

questions veterans and

1:00:33

clinicians need number one who benefits and why how long do the benefits last

1:00:40

which aspects of daily life

1:00:42

functioning ie cognition sleep substance use and overall well-being improve or

1:00:49

worsen following

1:00:51

treatment and how are these changes associated with brain uh alterations the

1:00:56

three-year study

1:00:58

will follow those treated with ibogaine over the course of 18 months which will

1:01:02

allow us to

1:01:03

create the first understanding of the sustained impacts of ibogaine on the

1:01:08

brain across various

1:01:10

treatment regimes we'll be diving more into this topic on november the 19th at

1:01:16

the center for brain

1:01:17

health brain health presents speaker series to share more by bringing world-class

1:01:24

scientific rigor to this

1:01:26

space we aren't just studying a substance we're creating a foundation of

1:01:31

knowledge that will expand safe

1:01:33

health informed access for those who need it most that is what americans for ibogaine

1:01:42

is really all about making that type of penetration having that type of success

1:01:49

seeing what brian

1:01:51

and and the other folks have created here in the state of texas i'm going to

1:01:57

tell you something brother

1:01:58

there is nothing

1:01:59

that i've been involved with

1:02:04

in my life

1:02:07

that gives me more pleasure

1:02:09

than to see

1:02:11

what we're doing and knowing

1:02:13

that there's a father out there

1:02:17

a mother out there

1:02:23

whose child's going to be saved

1:02:27

you mentioned dogma

1:02:31

people

1:02:32

are

1:02:33

in particular in american society there is a quest for identity

1:02:38

there is a quest for belonging

1:02:40

so much of what we see on social media and in broadcast media that is rage and

1:02:46

anger and disaffection

1:02:48

is tremendous loneliness and a tremendous lack of

1:02:51

of of belonging to something

1:02:54

and a tremendous amount of trauma related to having never having had anything

1:03:00

that resembles

1:03:01

unconditional affection within the context of a safe and stable familial

1:03:05

relationship

1:03:07

that's at scale within the united states

1:03:09

and the degree to which dogma can thwart evolution

1:03:13

is a hundred percent right on and i just use my own self as an example

1:03:17

i was a child of reagan's america i can remember i was about five years old

1:03:24

when he and president

1:03:27

carter had their first presidential debate in 1980 president reagan was like

1:03:31

the

1:03:32

mother goose to the goslin he just imprinted on me

1:03:36

and whereas other young boys had pictures of jill montana and michael jordan

1:03:43

and michael

1:03:43

jackson all over their rooms mine was wallpapered with ronald reagan

1:03:46

i was the president of the teenage republicans in high school i wrote him fan

1:03:52

letters all the

1:03:53

time he actually replied to one and i put it in a a frame in my room it was

1:03:57

written on my birthday

1:03:59

i was president of the college republicans at george mason university and i

1:04:03

mean

1:04:04

i aim to be the king of conservative republican conformity that was my whole

1:04:09

mission in life

1:04:10

and i used to joke that uh when people said well how did you get to this you

1:04:16

know and what do you

1:04:16

think about the fact that you're talking about it and you're so zealous in your

1:04:20

advocacy

1:04:21

i would kind of make a half statement and say well if 25 year old me could come

1:04:25

and see 50 year old me

1:04:28

he would look and say what in the world happened to you and i would kind of yuck

1:04:32

and yuck and laugh

1:04:32

about it well here's the answer if 25 year old me could come back and look at

1:04:38

50 year old me and say

1:04:40

what happened to you 50 year old me would look right back and say you happened

1:04:46

to me you happened to me

1:04:49

your youthful sense of certainty your belief that you had it all figured out

1:04:55

your belief that you had

1:04:57

no further greater evolution to achieve sir you and your insolence of youth you

1:05:02

happened to me

1:05:04

one of the things that i have so enjoyed learning about governor perry and as

1:05:10

he and i have built

1:05:12

relationship the first time i really started following him was when he ran for

1:05:16

president in

1:05:16

2012 and i believe that had he not had that back surgery would have we would

1:05:21

not have had a second

1:05:22

obama term he would have won that race and i think he would have won it handily

1:05:25

it's been remarkable to

1:05:28

listen to this gentleman who has been so firmly identified with the

1:05:31

conservative wing of the

1:05:32

republican party be so willing to be curious and to have that human value of

1:05:39

curiosity and a willingness

1:05:41

to hear and a willingness to know and a willingness to entertain that perhaps

1:05:46

everything that he had been

1:05:47

taught about this particular subject was not correct curiosity is a prime human

1:05:53

value and if you allow

1:05:55

dogma to shut off your curiosity you have hobbled yourself and i think it was

1:06:00

muhammad ali who said

1:06:02

if if if if a 50 year old man thinks the exact same way as a 20 year old man as

1:06:08

he did when he was

1:06:09

20 he's wasted 30 years of his life and that is that is dead on right dead on

1:06:14

right yeah i could attest to

1:06:15

that curiosity is my number one attribute that's the thing that's led me in

1:06:22

life and everything i've

1:06:23

ever done is just being open-minded and curious i'm very fortunate is that i

1:06:27

didn't think i had things

1:06:28

figured out when i was 20 at all i was sure that i was a moron i was good at

1:06:34

one thing kicking people

1:06:37

that's it and then uh from then i realized that there's a lot to learn and that

1:06:43

as much as i learned

1:06:45

about martial arts i could apply that sort of open-minded discipline because

1:06:51

you you have to be

1:06:53

open-minded to be good at martial arts because you have to be able to listen

1:06:58

you can't think you

1:06:58

already know you cannot you won't you won't grow and you won't get better you

1:07:02

you have to be listening

1:07:05

to coaches you have to be listening to instructors you have to be listening to

1:07:08

your teammates you have

1:07:09

to listen to everybody if you don't listen if you have don't tell me those

1:07:14

people don't go anywhere

1:07:16

and i learned that very early on it's very fortunate that i found that path

1:07:20

because i've applied that to

1:07:21

virtually everything that i've ever done in life instead of having this belief

1:07:26

that i have things

1:07:27

figured out i mean i've certainly like been more sure than i should have been

1:07:31

at many times in my life

1:07:33

but always willing to stop and go maybe i'm wrong and if it wasn't for this

1:07:39

podcast it would have never

1:07:42

gotten to where it is because i've fortunately been able to talk to brilliant

1:07:48

people and you know i grew

1:07:50

up in um i lived in california for 26 years before that i you know i lived in boston

1:07:58

in new york i i thought

1:08:00

of people that the southern accent in particular right then this is a standard

1:08:06

thing that a lot of people

1:08:08

on the coasts have you hear people talk with a southern accent you think they're

1:08:12

dumb and it's a it's a

1:08:15

terrible stereotype that actually came out because of hookworm parasites i'm

1:08:20

sure you're aware of that

1:08:22

story and i'm not you're not okay me the stereotype of the lazy dull-minded

1:08:29

southerner came out of the

1:08:32

fact that a large percentage of people in the south had contracted hookworms

1:08:38

from walking around barefoot

1:08:40

and hookworm parasites will rob you of your intellectual capacity they greatly

1:08:47

diminish your ability to

1:08:49

think and exhaust you you get slower and you know in quotes lazier but you're

1:08:56

really just infected with

1:08:58

the parasite and it's an enormous percentage of the population in the 1900s

1:09:04

where we're infected with

1:09:06

hookworm and in the south in particular hot climates and this is where this the

1:09:12

stereotype came from

1:09:13

when someone like you speaks with such insane recall like your recalls bananas

1:09:19

like your recall of dates

1:09:20

and names and times and i have a pretty good recall it's nothing like yours it's

1:09:25

extraordinary and i love

1:09:27

when i meet someone who's brilliant who still has a southern accent because it's

1:09:31

it's like like i said yeah

1:09:34

forget all your stereotypes let them all go baby because they're not real it's

1:09:38

not real none of that is

1:09:40

real individuals vary wildly and you know i've met brilliant people from um

1:09:46

coastal cities and i've

1:09:48

met fucking morons that talk like you know a person that you would assume would

1:09:54

be a highly educated

1:09:55

intelligent person but they're closed-minded and foolish in their ways and uh

1:10:00

having had this ability to have

1:10:03

all these different conversations with different people it's just like every

1:10:06

time i have another

1:10:07

conversation just expands my understanding just a little more and a little more

1:10:11

and a little more

1:10:12

and i love it and it's all out of curiosity and i'm i'm very happy that i've

1:10:17

been able to

1:10:18

make that curiosity infectious my favorite cities and i know we're getting off

1:10:23

the beaten path here a

1:10:24

little bit i love to get off the beaten path that's my favorite thing to do my

1:10:28

my favorite cities in america

1:10:30

or those that you can go to and not feel like you're in the country miami is

1:10:35

fabulous it's a wild place

1:10:38

you should have a passport to go to miami it is fabulous and uh i remember the

1:10:42

first time i went to

1:10:44

new york city one time when i was about five years old only thing i could

1:10:47

remember was the empire state

1:10:49

building and some dude with purple hair sticking his tongue out at me next time

1:10:53

was in 2019 and i'd always had

1:10:57

kind of that stereotypical southerners attitude a bunch of you know haughty

1:11:03

stuck up mean active yankee people

1:11:06

yeah uh living in an obnoxious locale that would just be hell on earth to have

1:11:11

to endure

1:11:12

so i had the opportunity to go and spend a day there and uh rolled into grand

1:11:16

central station on uh the

1:11:19

railway from uh i think it was new haven connecticut and just to watch the

1:11:24

dimensions of the architecture

1:11:26

as we rolled into the city crazy the expansion of scale of this place how old

1:11:31

were you uh well let's

1:11:32

see i was about to turn uh 44. i think i could hear the beverly hillbillies

1:11:37

music playing in my head when i

1:11:39

was going down through there so we get off our grand central station and i mean

1:11:45

i walked all through

1:11:47

that i walked from grand central station all the way down to the tip of uh

1:11:52

where the world trade center

1:11:54

was it was new york city is a monumental human accomplishment when you can have

1:12:02

the entire

1:12:03

world within 300 square miles and it is a a living affirmation of everything

1:12:11

the united states is

1:12:12

supposed to be as the last best hope of humankind on earth just to be in that

1:12:17

place anytime i've gone back

1:12:19

since i mean the minute that i uh go to get the uber at la guardia airport and

1:12:24

i see that skyline i mean

1:12:26

my heart just starts racing racing racing i would have never thought that i

1:12:30

would just fall in love

1:12:31

with new york city but it is fabulous san francisco is the same way uh just

1:12:36

there are so many wonderful

1:12:38

places in the united states where you wouldn't think that somebody necessarily

1:12:42

who sounded like me would

1:12:44

would endorse but one of the best things that i have done is stop watching

1:12:50

television news the last time

1:12:53

i watched television news was after the first obama press conference in january

1:12:58

of 2009 and i cut it off

1:13:00

wow aside from presidential debates and election returns i've never turned it

1:13:04

back on

1:13:05

the number i shouldn't tell this the number the number of times i've left my

1:13:10

front door wide open the

1:13:12

garage door open in my neighborhood and nothing has happened is remarkable this

1:13:17

country in terms of her

1:13:20

people is as much like it was back in 1950 as it has ever been the complexion

1:13:29

is a little different

1:13:30

we've got a lot more diversity now than we've ever had but once you take that

1:13:36

blinder of mass media mayhem

1:13:38

and all this fabricated division that is purposely put out there to keep us

1:13:42

divided to keep us tuning in

1:13:44

tuning in and and segregated yeah once you take yourself out of it and you just

1:13:50

start having a

1:13:51

conversation next time someone gets into an uber with someone who doesn't have

1:13:56

english as a secret

1:13:57

language strike up a conversation ask them how did you come to the united

1:14:02

states what brought you here

1:14:04

and your heart is going to feel with just the unbelievable amount of pride and

1:14:12

love to hear

1:14:13

those accents from the middle east and from africa speak about this country in

1:14:19

ways that take us right

1:14:21

back to 1776 it's a fabulous place and i'm able to say so much of this because

1:14:28

of what

1:14:29

the plans have helped clarify by way of that universal human divinity that we

1:14:35

all share

1:14:36

that this country is the cradle to protect and to honor which is what makes

1:14:41

this mission so incredibly

1:14:42

important and i do want to oh i'm sorry no go ahead please there's two people

1:14:46

that i left off of our

1:14:48

ambassador program that i think are really showstoppers i want to mention one

1:14:51

is a gentleman by the name

1:14:54

of rear admiral jim hancock this gentleman received ibogaine treatment for his

1:14:59

wounds of war

1:15:00

he was the navy medical corps chief and was the medical officer for the united

1:15:07

states marine corps

1:15:08

one of our other ambassadors is a gentleman by the name of general glenn curtis

1:15:13

he served in both gulf

1:15:15

wars he served in afghanistan his most recent stint of service was as the

1:15:19

commanding general for the

1:15:20

louisiana national guard and he is one of our prime spokespeople for

1:15:24

legislation that's pending in

1:15:26

louisiana right now to join texas as a partner in this ibogaine trial so that's

1:15:30

fantastic yeah please say

1:15:32

what you were going to because i'm curious i don't even remember hey well i

1:15:36

remember what i wanted to

1:15:37

talk about please so and and i want to get us back on uh the the track that we

1:15:42

were talking about um

1:15:45

you know brian's done a great job to discuss the uh the spiritual aspect of the

1:15:51

medicine and and what

1:15:53

i mean that's incredibly important don't don't get me wrong on that at all and

1:15:57

uh but what brought me

1:16:02

personally to the medicine obviously my relationship with marcus and morgan and

1:16:07

what have you and then

1:16:08

as i studied it i'm like if you're really going to be a legitimate spokesperson

1:16:16

for this if you're going

1:16:18

to uh you know put your reputation out there you need to be treated you need to

1:16:23

go through the treatment

1:16:26

and i'm going to get to you at the end of this conversation but i want to set

1:16:31

this up if i may

1:16:32

and in 2023 if my memory serves me correct this is the same time that nolan

1:16:39

williams was heading up

1:16:41

the uh 30 veteran study that stanford was going to oversee kind of the early

1:16:47

days if you will of of

1:16:49

some clinical trial type effort to have the data to have the background some

1:16:56

early day uh efforts to

1:16:59

start educating the public about that is how i i do this they had 30 vets i

1:17:03

think they were between

1:17:04

the ages of like 22 and 42 uh they all had moderate uh to severe ptsd uh they

1:17:15

were um some of them

1:17:19

addicted to alcohol uh they you know they were pretty classic veteran

1:17:25

population that had some real

1:17:28

challenges um they were sent well to stanford and they did baseline functional

1:17:37

mris and then they were

1:17:40

sent down to ambio uh just south of tijuana where they were given the the

1:17:46

treatment um and then

1:17:51

that last i think about a four day treatment protocol you go down you work your

1:17:58

way in

1:17:58

tuesday you get in preparation tuesday evening you get the compound wednesday's

1:18:07

a recovery day

1:18:08

thursday there's a five meo dmt treatment and then you go home

1:18:15

they went back to stanford after five days after the treatment and had follow-up

1:18:23

mris i think they

1:18:24

did an mri at 30 days and then a functional mri at six months so that there was

1:18:31

a you know good good

1:18:33

piece of of data there to look at just stunningly good results um and uh the

1:18:41

results i think there was

1:18:44

87 percent of them who six months now better than two years later uh but that

1:18:51

have zero ptsd uh the

1:18:54

addictions were at that level of reduction that we talked about in the high 80

1:18:59

percentiles i mean just

1:19:01

we've seen all this data before this is nothing new but the reason i share that

1:19:07

with you is that

1:19:10

i basically went down and followed the same protocol i wasn't part of the

1:19:15

clinical trial but and i only

1:19:18

wanted to be treated with ibogaine i did not want to take the five meo dmt so

1:19:23

what i was looking at and

1:19:24

i was interested in this from the brain regenerative side of it i had about as

1:19:29

bucolic a life as you've

1:19:30

ever had i never had anybody mistreat me to of anything that you could even get

1:19:35

close to calling traumatic

1:19:38

effect i had no trauma in my life i grew up on a dry land cotton farm you know

1:19:43

60 miles from abilene

1:19:44

texas 16 miles from closest place that had a post office in a part of texas

1:19:49

that there's just a

1:19:50

lovely wonderful loving place my mom and dad loved me and i knew it and you

1:19:55

know my scout master and my

1:19:57

principal and my superintendent and my sunday school class who by the way were

1:20:02

all the same person and he

1:20:03

drove the bus and was a football coach but i i had a as

1:20:08

non-traumatic growing up period as you can imagine so

1:20:18

i was concussed severely concussed three times twice in athletic events and i'm

1:20:27

talking about knocked out

1:20:28

completely for over one minute and those are severe concussions two times

1:20:35

athletic events one time

1:20:37

unloading horses knocked completely out so what i know now is that as i got to

1:20:43

pilot training

1:20:46

and i started noticing that i was having trouble sleeping and that this thing

1:20:52

that i

1:20:53

understood later in life was anxiety had crept into my life so i had i'm going

1:21:00

to put it in the mile

1:21:01

in the mile category anxiety and uh and uh insomnia

1:21:08

i went into a very odd line of work in politics to have those two kind of

1:21:14

things

1:21:15

and then and i'm i masked them rather well uh most people didn't know i had

1:21:21

that my wife did but

1:21:22

other than that even my you know senior staff in my

1:21:27

my offices through the year agriculture commissioner lieutenant governor

1:21:30

governor

1:21:30

they did not know that i had this challenge of you know maybe sleeping three

1:21:36

and a half four hours a

1:21:37

night um being anxious at times to the point of being never dysfunctional uh

1:21:46

but from my perspective my perspective i'm probably some people out there in

1:21:51

the political world said

1:21:52

hell pair you were dysfunctional the whole damn time what are you talking about

1:21:55

anyway beside the point

1:21:56

i had the treatment i had the

1:22:02

i had the brain scan going in i had the brain scan a week later and i had the

1:22:09

brain scan at six months

1:22:13

the first brain scan

1:22:17

they said look your brain looks pretty good for a 73 year old guy he said you

1:22:23

know you're you're

1:22:24

actually in in pretty good shape you don't have a lot of atrophy you got some

1:22:28

mild atrophy

1:22:29

but your brain looks pretty good

1:22:34

the week after scan showed a 27 percent increase in the prefrontal cortex of my

1:22:45

brain that's where

1:22:47

your focus your concentration your emotions reside at a 27 percent increase in

1:22:54

that prefrontal cortex

1:22:56

activity my six month scan

1:23:01

i have a dear friend who's a neurosurgeon from tyler

1:23:08

dr charlie gordon who is a 40 plus year neurosurgeon spine expert looked at

1:23:20

lots of brain scans

1:23:24

a respectful skeptic of this when i told him i was going to be

1:23:28

treated with this compound called ibogaine the psychoactive

1:23:33

compound he was recoiled a little bit he was like you need to be really careful

1:23:39

with that

1:23:40

he has now gone from being respectful skeptic

1:23:50

to looking at the data from the clinical trial that was done at stanford

1:23:54

talking to a fairly good

1:23:57

number of the veterans that went through that trial talking to dr williams

1:24:02

talking to other

1:24:03

specialists at the at stanford and he has gone from respectful skeptic to a

1:24:10

full-on believer in this

1:24:13

medicine i mean an absolute supporter that this medicine does what it says it

1:24:20

does it heals people

1:24:22

of of of uh addictions it heals from ptsd this medicine does what it does and

1:24:29

we're driving back

1:24:30

from the airport that day after the six month scan he had looked at it as it

1:24:35

came off of the machine

1:24:39

and he said governor i'm not going to blow smoke up your dress

1:24:47

your atrophy is gone he said i have no idea why this has happened but he said

1:24:54

the difference between

1:24:56

your initial baseline scan and six months later clearly the atrophy in your

1:25:06

brain is gone he said

1:25:08

your brain looks like a 40 year old now the reason i share that story with you

1:25:15

is because number one

1:25:16

that's partly what drives me about this is that there is a regenerative aspect

1:25:23

of this medicine that we

1:25:24

don't really understand yet and if it does what we think it's going to do and

1:25:30

that's the reason these

1:25:32

clinical trials are just so stunningly important that's the reason what the the

1:25:36

center for brain

1:25:37

health and what they're going to be doing and the data they're going to be

1:25:40

collecting i'm convinced

1:25:42

of what this data is going to show but for all of those individuals out there

1:25:48

who don't have

1:25:49

substance abuse problems who weren't traumatized as a child but who have been

1:25:54

concussed and we know that

1:25:57

that damage is is out there and that this that the cumulative side robert

1:26:03

gallery that great uh

1:26:05

professional football player who had really bad cte and he will tell you today

1:26:10

this medicine saved his

1:26:12

life my question for you joe rogan is how many times you think you've been concussed

1:26:20

in life

1:26:27

i don't know i have no idea dozens yeah i'd have to go back and think about

1:26:34

times um

1:26:36

most of it was from sparring or a few from fights but um but if we think about

1:26:44

that if there

1:26:45

if there is this cumulative effect yeah are you how old are you now 58

1:26:55

would joe rogan be willing to say you know what i've seen enough i believe that

1:27:02

this medicine does

1:27:03

what you say it will do and for a person like me that it could be incredibly

1:27:11

helpful to my um

1:27:14

my long-term plan of living a long and healthy and engaged life that joe rogan

1:27:24

would go

1:27:25

and be treated with ibogaine yeah i would definitely i would definitely do it i'm

1:27:29

very fascinated by it

1:27:31

cool i mean i've never heard anybody say i wish i didn't do it he mentioned his

1:27:36

brain scans uh post

1:27:38

treatment uh a couple of weeks ago while i was at that earth one earth

1:27:43

gathering i met a lady who i will

1:27:45

call lonnie and she had just returned from an ibogaine treatment in november of

1:27:50

25

1:27:53

she related an early life of just ungodly physical abuse by her father who was

1:27:59

addicted

1:27:59

to oxycontin you know we began this conversation about the realities of the

1:28:04

opioid epidemic in america

1:28:06

while death is the most terminal outcome is measured down about 700 000 americans

1:28:11

there is a much broader

1:28:13

web of hardcore travesty that exists around each of those death outcomes

1:28:20

and lonnie experienced that she had multiple concussions from her own father

1:28:26

like many individuals who experienced trauma of this nature she developed her

1:28:31

own drug addiction

1:28:32

she was in and out of jail she was homeless at different point in time

1:28:35

she managed to get recovered she had a separate traumatic brain injury that was

1:28:40

fairly severe in 2018

1:28:42

and then she was diagnosed with what i believe is called young onset parkinson's

1:28:50

parkinson's diagnosis

1:28:52

that is pre-age 50 her parkinson's had progressed to the point to where she

1:28:57

could not write because of

1:28:59

the tremulousness in her hands so when i saw her two weeks ago and she

1:29:05

introduced herself she had all of the

1:29:08

the appearance and affect of a perfectly healthy human being it was only after

1:29:13

we sat down and she explained

1:29:14

what her experience had been and where she was at now that the ibogaine

1:29:19

disclosure was made her hand

1:29:22

was just as calm as mine and she said that it had been essentially three months

1:29:27

and that she had been able

1:29:30

to resume a normal life and then her mind felt restored now based on the

1:29:34

responses we got after our first

1:29:36

interview with you i want to be very careful here this is truly the edge of

1:29:41

science and there is much

1:29:44

unknown about the variety of parkinson's that this can treat there's some

1:29:49

suggestion that

1:29:50

it is better for those who have a genetic predisposition for the disease that

1:29:56

it is for those who contract

1:29:58

parkinson's as the result of environmental exposure ibogaine does not appear to

1:30:02

have any impact

1:30:03

on parkinson's developed as a result of exposure to environmental toxin the

1:30:09

stage of the disease

1:30:10

at which you catch it also appears to make a big difference the earlier the

1:30:14

better it has also been

1:30:16

asserted that ibogaine does not cure parkinson's what it does is slows disease

1:30:21

progression and creates for

1:30:23

some a broad window of opportunity for the restoration of function that can

1:30:28

dramatically improve the quality

1:30:30

of life now i'm just given a number of qualifiers about its impact and efficacy

1:30:35

on one individual but

1:30:37

think about what we just said here this is a woman who was diagnosed with young

1:30:42

onset parkinson's she had

1:30:43

lost the ability to write because of the tremulousness in her hands she's four

1:30:47

months out from a treatment

1:30:49

and she's been able to resume her full normal life with a complete restoration

1:30:52

of function if we could

1:30:55

get a covid vaccine out in nine months there is no reason why with the focused

1:31:02

effort of texas and the

1:31:04

other states we'll discuss here momentarily that we cannot achieve the moonshot

1:31:09

of our time within three

1:31:11

years or less and that is the completion of an ibogaine medication that can be

1:31:17

fully integrated into the

1:31:19

u.s healthcare system and made just as universally available as every

1:31:24

ineffective opioid based treatment

1:31:27

that we currently deploy through the medical system at a cost of seven hundred

1:31:32

thousand dollars per patient

1:31:34

sponsored by indivior which is one of the chief pharmaceutical developers of

1:31:38

everything that we

1:31:39

have that fails 75 percent of the time

1:31:43

yeah i mean if we could do it it would be pretty extraordinary and if it is

1:31:51

done i really do believe

1:31:53

that it would have a complete changing of society when people have no hope and

1:31:58

there's nothing and then all

1:32:00

of a sudden there's something that comes along that you do it once and it's an

1:32:03

85 effective rate and

1:32:05

you do it twice and it's in the high 90s i mean change i mean how many people

1:32:10

are out there struggling

1:32:12

with something whether it's alcoholism whether it's obesity whether it's you

1:32:17

know that's another thing

1:32:18

like there's there's people that are calming themselves with food right and it's

1:32:23

masking that's

1:32:24

probably a sugar addiction don't you think i mean from the standpoint of it it

1:32:28

is but for a lot of

1:32:29

people it's there's something else you know for some people it's sexual abuse

1:32:33

when they're younger and

1:32:34

they they eat it's it's interesting there's it's an addiction yeah and then and

1:32:40

it's not just a

1:32:41

physical addiction it's a psychological addiction i brought up gambling because

1:32:45

i know a lot of people

1:32:45

that are addicted to gambling pornography yeah pornography be sure a lot of

1:32:49

there's a lot of things the

1:32:51

non-sumption models we mentioned are ones who had developed those eating

1:32:54

disorders one of which was

1:32:56

a compulsive eater as a result of that childhood sexual abuse and ibogaine was

1:33:00

the treatment of last

1:33:02

resort not the first option and their own recovery story which can be found on

1:33:06

the americans for ibogaine

1:33:08

website is truly extraordinary and speaking of extraordinary when we came in

1:33:13

here to push texas our belief was and still

1:33:18

is and is now playing out at scale that if texas did this it would be joined by

1:33:25

a number of other states

1:33:26

who are no longer willing to sit and wait on an inefficient often incompetent

1:33:35

and also incompetently

1:33:36

corrupt federal bureaucracy that will not move in response to the genuine needs

1:33:43

of the american people at

1:33:44

the pace that it needs to there are a variety of well-intentioned reformers

1:33:49

within the current

1:33:50

administration secretary kennedy secretary collins and others who have voiced

1:33:57

their support for the

1:33:58

advancement of plant medicine as breakthrough treatments primarily for u.s war

1:34:03

fighters but also for other

1:34:04

members of our society for whom these medications could help we believe that

1:34:09

these individuals are stymied

1:34:12

by two realities the first reality is the byzantine complexity of the federal

1:34:17

bureaucracy the degree

1:34:19

to which it has been compromised by the institutional capture of much of its

1:34:23

functioning by companies that

1:34:26

make money on keeping problems alive we think they're probably also stymied by

1:34:32

perhaps some other political

1:34:34

cross currents within the administration that view psychedelics with skepticism

1:34:38

and that are therefore

1:34:40

willing to be indiscriminate in their resistance to the advancement of any of

1:34:44

them when in fact the

1:34:45

advancement of this one is of existential critical importance as a breakthrough

1:34:50

treatment for millions

1:34:52

of americans who need it now and so to that end americans for ibogaine

1:34:57

following the texas success

1:35:00

convened a gathering of 200 people in aspen colorado in november of last year

1:35:06

these individuals were

1:35:08

invited appointed appointed and elected state officials from 22 individual

1:35:12

states and aligned citizens of

1:35:13

influence who would be willing as the texans were here to get behind efforts in

1:35:18

state legislatures to

1:35:19

create a partnership with texas that by end result will form the unstoppable

1:35:27

external force through the

1:35:29

states that can crash through the federal wall using not just their resources

1:35:32

but their political influence to

1:35:35

to execute one unified fda drug development trial and to force the federal

1:35:39

government to be responsive to

1:35:41

everything that is required to ensure it is successful so as we sit here today

1:35:46

we have been working with

1:35:48

elected officials in alabama georgia idaho maryland michigan new hampshire

1:35:56

south carolina vermont ohi

1:35:59

ohio pennsylvania florida south dakota and california each of whom have

1:36:05

legislators who are willing to

1:36:06

introduce and to pursue bills to join their states into texas as this trial

1:36:11

governor perry and i spoke to the

1:36:13

american legislative exchange council as keynote speakers on december 5th of

1:36:17

last year this is an umbrella think tank

1:36:20

organization for center right mostly republican legislatures from across the

1:36:24

country

1:36:25

in its entire existence alec has taken two positions when it comes on the war

1:36:31

on drugs more prison more

1:36:34

penalties more prison more penalties ad if and adam after we spoke about the

1:36:41

necessity of ibogaine's medical

1:36:43

integration into the united states and the capacity of the states to force this

1:36:48

reality into being

1:36:49

alec issued a formal position statement as well as model legislation endorsing

1:36:54

what we call the

1:36:55

american ibogaine initiative to bring the states all together to make this

1:37:00

happen with one unified voice

1:37:02

and so now as we sit here with you today in the state of tennessee there are

1:37:08

two bills one each in the

1:37:11

state house and the state senate that are making its way through that

1:37:14

legislature to join texas before we

1:37:16

walked in here this morning the tennessee senate finance committee voted 11 to

1:37:20

nothing to move tennessee's

1:37:22

bill forward to the full state senate for consideration and what will i believe

1:37:26

be passage and i would like

1:37:27

to give a shout out to a special sister by the name of ricky harris who has led

1:37:31

that tennessee campaign

1:37:33

right now there are two bills in the missouri legislature house bill 2817 and

1:37:38

senate bill 1581

1:37:40

which are receiving good considerate deliberative thought by legislators there

1:37:46

but frankly need a

1:37:47

little motivation so if you're in missouri and you want to see ibogaine

1:37:50

medicine for your family

1:37:51

member for your community for your state you call into the missouri legislature

1:37:56

and say move the ibogaine

1:37:57

bill forward to join missouri with texas oklahoma the oklahoma house of

1:38:02

representatives has passed its

1:38:04

ibogaine bill it is now pending in its senate in louisiana senate bill 43 has

1:38:09

been introduced to join

1:38:10

that state to texas and in what i can only describe as full circle justice the

1:38:17

kentucky senate passed senate

1:38:19

bill 77 by a margin of 35 to 2 to join kentucky where this all began with texas

1:38:26

as a state partner in this

1:38:28

ibogaine drug development trial it is now sitting in the kentucky house of

1:38:31

representatives so you if you are

1:38:34

at home please call the kentucky house of representatives and ask them to pass

1:38:39

the kentucky ibogaine initiative so

1:38:41

the state will not be left out now here are some just unbelievable words are

1:38:48

going to come out my mouth

1:38:50

the state of west virginia their house of delegates by a vote of 96 to nothing

1:38:58

and their state senate

1:38:59

unanimously passed their ibogaine bill to join texas and it has now been sent

1:39:03

to their governor for

1:39:04

signature and the one that is the most poignant and moving for all the obvious

1:39:10

reasons the state of

1:39:14

mississippi the crucible for the triumph of uniquely american hope over horror

1:39:22

and of the leadership of

1:39:24

representative sam creek moore its state house of representatives passed by a

1:39:29

margin of 111 to 1

1:39:32

and its state senate passed by a margin of 51 to 1 the mississippi ibogaine

1:39:37

initiative which will tie the

1:39:39

state of mississippi with a five million dollar appropriation from its opioid

1:39:43

fund to texas to develop the

1:39:46

most powerful psychedelic on the planet as a breakthrough treatment for trauma

1:39:50

and addiction for the people

1:39:52

of mississippi that's incredible it is going to be signed actually has been

1:39:56

legally signed by governor reeves

1:39:59

governor uh tate reese and governor perry and i have asked for a special sign

1:40:05

in ceremony with

1:40:06

representative creek moore his legislative leaders there to stand in jackson

1:40:11

mississippi and see that

1:40:12

signed into law as a matter of ceremonial formality what a wonderfully redemptive

1:40:19

opportunity that we

1:40:20

have here to shepherd and we hope and pray that our organization can be

1:40:24

sufficiently resourced and

1:40:26

sufficiently engaged over the next three years so that we can see this process

1:40:30

to conclusion i'll mention

1:40:32

a couple of others since we're talking about the capacity to make this a broad-based

1:40:36

humanitarian mission

1:40:38

that improves the human condition just friday before traveling down here on

1:40:43

sunday i received a letter

1:40:45

from the government of gabon naming americans for ibogaine as its official

1:40:49

partner for the advancement

1:40:51

of iboga medicine globally gabon has 2.3 million people it's got a hundred

1:40:56

thousand square miles of

1:40:57

territory that's the modern garden of eden i've had the opportunity to take a

1:41:02

trip there from and i mean

1:41:03

trip is in the geographic sense not the psycho not not the iboga trip though i

1:41:09

hope that that will be on

1:41:11

the agenda in the ceremonial way sometime within the next year we traveled

1:41:15

there from january 6th to january

1:41:18

20th and if someone would have said when you go to gabon you're going to have

1:41:23

one of the most down

1:41:24

home experiences you've ever had in my life it would have blown my mind but it

1:41:28

was a fabulous journey

1:41:30

one in which they were jubilant about our ability to demonstrate that what they

1:41:35

call the sacred wood

1:41:37

in fact it's one of the most scientifically advanced substances that has

1:41:41

perhaps ever been discovered

1:41:43

and we're honored that the government would choose us as their partner to move

1:41:47

this forward on monday

1:41:50

after a conference call with chief gary batten i can confirm that the choctaw

1:41:58

nation

1:41:58

will seek to join texas in the expansion of this ibogaine drug development

1:42:04

trial onto their sovereign

1:42:06

territory as the third largest native american tribe in the country on april

1:42:11

the 7th i will be traveling to

1:42:14

durant oklahoma for what is being called the intertribal council meeting of

1:42:18

what they describe as the five

1:42:20

civilized tribes that's their name not mine this is a gathering of the

1:42:24

leadership of the choctaw

1:42:26

choctaw the chickasaw the cherokee the moskegee and the seminole we expect a

1:42:34

passage of a resolution

1:42:36

that i will be there to lobby for for the five civilized tribes will declare

1:42:41

their solidarity with

1:42:42

americans for ibogaine for the integration of this divine emancipator into the

1:42:48

u.s healthcare system

1:42:49

as expeditiously as possible and make all of their resources available to

1:42:54

explore the extent to which

1:42:55

we can operationalize ibogaine medicine as quickly as possible and it's my hope

1:43:00

and aspiration that we

1:43:02

will see all of native america join this effort before the end of this year can

1:43:06

i stop you there would

1:43:07

that make it so that they would be able to immediately establish retreats there

1:43:12

so similar to the way they

1:43:14

have casinos because they don't have the same sort of regulations that some

1:43:19

states do tribal sovereignty

1:43:22

is an area of the law with which i am not familiar i would not be able to speak

1:43:26

to the degree to which they

1:43:28

could autonomously open a clinic the most immediate issue would be related to

1:43:33

the creation of a supply chain

1:43:35

because you have traveled through interstate commerce in the u.s states which

1:43:39

should theoretically

1:43:40

restrict it however there is one spectacular opportunity not just to expedite

1:43:46

the creation

1:43:47

of ibogaine treatment access for native america but for all of america and this

1:43:52

gets into federal right

1:43:55

right to try legislation authored by former u.s senator kirsten cinema and

1:43:59

signed by the president during his

1:44:02

first administration in 2018 and then what federal right to trial legislation

1:44:08

or the law provides is that

1:44:10

once any medication makes its way through phase one safety testing within the fda's

1:44:19

process

1:44:21

then anyone with a life-threatening condition for which that medication is

1:44:25

being developed

1:44:26

can request treatment with that medication and obtain it from a willing prescriber

1:44:32

what does that mean

1:44:33

that means that as soon as texas or as soon as one of the native tribes

1:44:42

effectively completes

1:44:44

a phase one safety study under the language of the law anyone who has a life-threatening

1:44:52

condition for which this

1:44:53

medication is being developed first and foremost opioid dependency can go and

1:44:58

request and get the treatment

1:44:59

right to the treatment we have one complication presently the drug enforcement

1:45:05

administration

1:45:06

in keeping with the practice of many government agencies that use their

1:45:10

arbitrary authority to interpret law

1:45:13

has asserted that federal right to try does not apply to schedule one

1:45:20

substances this means that based on

1:45:23

not the language of the law but on dea's interpretation preference of that law

1:45:30

once ibogaine clears through phase one it would be disqualified for access

1:45:36

under federal right to try

1:45:37

because the dea says that if schedule one substances were intended to be

1:45:42

included they would have been

1:45:45

specifically listed in the legislation when kirsten cinema the author of the

1:45:50

bill explained to them

1:45:51

that the language is unambiguous and it says any medication their response was

1:45:58

insolence and a

1:46:01

refusal to honor what the statute actually says which is one of these numerous

1:46:06

examples of the use of

1:46:07

fictitious legal realities to do violence to legitimate reality the dea needs

1:46:13

to be told to relent on its

1:46:16

misinterpretation and extrajudicial interpretation of federal right to try to

1:46:21

interpret it as written

1:46:23

so that once any phase one study on ibogaine is completed delivery can be

1:46:28

effectuated through

1:46:30

the medical system immediately and i might add one of the challenges that i've

1:46:35

seen over my 40 years of

1:46:37

being involved in government is that bureaucrats the easiest and the safest

1:46:44

answer for a bureaucrat is no

1:46:47

um and i think that's part of what we're running into in dc with the dea um one

1:46:54

of the issues that i i

1:46:56

certainly hope and and and pray and as we go through the summer and as we see

1:47:00

what's happened in texas and

1:47:02

mississippi and these other states that we'll have the opportunity to sit down

1:47:08

uh with president trump

1:47:10

and to just share with him what we're doing what we're seeing across the uh the

1:47:14

country and that

1:47:16

we could uh potentially have a conversation about the rescheduling of ibogaine

1:47:22

from one to three

1:47:24

two or three what you know just you get it out of that schedule one which there's

1:47:30

no reason in the

1:47:31

world you've talked about this many times joe that ibogaine is on schedule one

1:47:36

it does have medical

1:47:37

purposes i mean it's very clear it does and secondly it is not addictive so the

1:47:42

idea on its face

1:47:44

that ibogaine is um shown as this schedule one compound is just a fallacy well

1:47:52

the schedule one

1:47:53

the sweeping schedule one act of 1970 is just nuts they just threw a bunch of

1:47:57

stuff in there

1:47:57

many of the things that aren't even psychoactive uh a question uh the aboga

1:48:03

tree can it be grown in

1:48:04

the united states theoretically it could be is it climate dependent it's it's

1:48:11

climate dependent it's

1:48:13

soil dependent it is considered an entourage plant whereby it absorbs um

1:48:20

essentially the essence

1:48:24

not just of the soil around it but of the other botanicals one of the things we

1:48:30

learned in gabon

1:48:31

is that much like we have grape varietals in california for all the different

1:48:35

kinds of wine that they

1:48:36

produce there are different varieties of the iboga shrub how it grows in the

1:48:40

north of the country is very

1:48:42

different than how it grows in the south in terms of the amount of compound

1:48:46

that's in it or the type of

1:48:47

compound that's in it uh the potency the strength uh the nature of its effect

1:48:53

on the person uh the way

1:48:55

that it kind of uh facilitates the the spiritual journey there's some of it

1:49:01

that will kind of have a dark

1:49:03

angle there's some of it that has more of a light angle uh we are just really

1:49:07

scratching the surface of

1:49:09

knowledge as to all the the ways in which it can vary based on how it grows

1:49:15

naturally one of the most

1:49:17

fascinating things that we learned there and this is going to give you chills

1:49:20

we visited a five hectare

1:49:24

they use the metric system we visited a five hectare iboga plantation right in

1:49:30

the center of liberville

1:49:32

that is run by one of their former prime ministers it's an experimental farm to

1:49:36

kind of understand

1:49:38

how it grows the optimal ways in which to grow it and what different outcomes

1:49:44

are so as we were walking

1:49:46

along we came to these two small bushes it takes for about 10 years to come to

1:49:51

maturation

1:49:52

we come along this pathway and they were two shrubs identical growing just a

1:49:58

couple of feet apart from

1:49:59

each other and they pointed those out and said can now what does that look like

1:50:03

to you and i said well

1:50:04

those are eboga shrubs and they smiled and they said well it would appear so

1:50:09

because they are identical

1:50:11

they said but in nature when you find any bogus rub you're going to have to be

1:50:17

very careful to

1:50:18

determine which one's which because in nature it looks like they grow in pairs

1:50:23

one is the real deal the other is its poison imposter oh and they grow together

1:50:31

and they look identical

1:50:33

look identical how do you differentiate it's not until they get fully grown

1:50:38

into their 10th year one bears

1:50:41

fruit which is the real deal and the other does not wow now how does that do

1:50:47

you for the physical

1:50:49

communication of a mystical spiritual reality and so it takes 10 years for it

1:50:54

to come to fruition to the

1:50:55

point where it could be useful no though you could use it before then but you

1:51:00

don't know whether you're

1:51:01

getting the real deal or you're just killing yourself when you see them grow in

1:51:04

pairs wow so there's one

1:51:08

group of people who know how to differentiate one of the things that we learned

1:51:12

is that there is a healthy

1:51:14

underground international market for the bark just like we use vitamin b

1:51:19

complex or we use valerian

1:51:21

root to help us go to sleep people in gabon will use the the iboga bark for

1:51:26

mental acuity and just

1:51:28

like drinking a cup of coffee i mean to get the psychoactive effect you have to

1:51:33

eat like five big huge

1:51:36

heaping plates of this stuff over the course of time it's so bitter it will

1:51:40

burn your mouth i mean it's an

1:51:42

olympian ordeal yes sir it's an olympian ordeal to consume the amount of bark

1:51:47

that's necessary to get

1:51:49

that that mystical effect and you're sicker than a dog the whole time you're

1:51:52

doing it but apparently

1:51:54

piracy in the country for the shrub is is fairly prominent and they explained

1:51:59

that what poachers

1:52:00

will do is that they will take the poison imposter and basically like the

1:52:04

street supply where you put

1:52:06

pollutants in with you know cocaine or whatever here they put that imposter

1:52:10

bark in with the real because

1:52:12

you cannot visually differentiate the umbongo pygmy who we had the privilege of

1:52:18

meeting who hosted us

1:52:19

for an overnight ceremony of blessing and protection that was just phenomenal

1:52:23

they apparently can just

1:52:26

taste the bark even when it's mixed together and they can tell if it's adulterated

1:52:31

with the imposter

1:52:32

wow but to to know they're so like sommeliers of ibogaine yes that's a great

1:52:39

way to put it an

1:52:41

ibogaine sommelier might have to go over and get tutored uh yeah i wonder what

1:52:46

that process is like

1:52:47

boy well it's just it seems to me that with the incredible effectiveness of

1:52:55

this compound and it being

1:52:57

adopted by all these states you said it almost seems inevitable that change is

1:53:02

coming well here's what

1:53:04

we need to make change happen we need the dea to get on board well we need the

1:53:09

dea to get on board but

1:53:11

we need one man to get on board and that man is the president of the united

1:53:15

states we're here to

1:53:17

recognize america in her 250th year 25 of those 250 now 10 percent of time has

1:53:25

been spent at war

1:53:27

and there are conditions unique to war that only this medication can responsibly

1:53:35

address in a way that

1:53:37

nothing else can if there is an opportunity to improve the human condition at

1:53:44

scale particularly for

1:53:46

those who are even right now being marched in to go and fight yet another war

1:53:50

taking executive action that would direct ibogaine to be moved to schedule two

1:53:58

that the provisions of

1:54:00

the halt fentanyl act be applied to the texas multi-state ibogaine drug

1:54:04

development trial

1:54:06

that the dea be directed to interpret federal right to try so as to not exclude

1:54:12

schedule one medications that

1:54:14

are in drug development and that it be appropriately interpreted so that any

1:54:18

medication that makes it

1:54:19

through phase one can be accessed by a person with a life-threatening condition

1:54:24

and then directed

1:54:26

that federal scientific research agencies whether they be within health and

1:54:30

human services

1:54:31

or the pentagon come alongside the states in direct partnership to fund and

1:54:37

foster the accelerated

1:54:38

pharmacological development of ibogaine so that this medication can make its

1:54:43

way all the way through

1:54:44

the fda's process with their supportive guidance within three years or less it

1:54:50

is the moonshot of our time

1:54:51

and if there's a humanitarian legacy to be left for the ages by a president who

1:54:57

very much wishes to have a

1:55:00

legacy that is well reflected upon by posterity this is one of the most

1:55:06

monumental opportunities he has

1:55:08

to help folks at scale in a way that no president perhaps has before we're at

1:55:14

an inflection point in

1:55:15

history not just for this country but globally well i certainly hope that this

1:55:20

message reaches the president

1:55:23

and uh i will try to make sure that it does thank you sir i mean i think in

1:55:28

terms of the amount of people

1:55:30

that it can help in the crisis that our country is enduring with opiate

1:55:34

addiction with ptsd with all

1:55:36

sorts of trauma with cte with from sports from car accidents and and what have

1:55:42

you i mean this is i mean it's

1:55:45

astonishing that this is even a struggle when you consider the effectiveness of

1:55:50

this it's astonishing

1:55:52

that we have to plead and that you have to put in so much work and kudos to you

1:55:57

for doing that

1:55:58

and kudos to dan patrick for this recent adoption of it here in texas and i

1:56:05

mean i just can only hope

1:56:07

that momentum is on the side that's correct and that this this is implemented

1:56:13

through the entire country

1:56:15

and that people wake up and realize like we can help people and everyone at

1:56:19

this point in time

1:56:20

because the opioid crisis everyone is touched by this everyone has a family

1:56:24

member everyone knows

1:56:25

someone a friend a neighbor everyone everyone knows someone who's been hit by

1:56:30

this my friends that have

1:56:31

no problems with anything else and they had an injury and got hooked on opiates

1:56:37

and had a terrible

1:56:38

time kicking it opioids are i i'll use the word demonic i just i don't know any

1:56:45

other way to it's a good

1:56:47

word to describe people of their life and and and to have seen you know back in

1:56:53

kentucky uh where this

1:56:56

all started in my opinion uh in your work there uh and to have uh the success

1:57:02

that we're seeing now

1:57:03

in kentucky and having it blocked historically uh when you were there at the

1:57:08

opioid uh abatement

1:57:10

commission and and and the current governor being a part of that uh uh blockade

1:57:15

if you will former

1:57:16

employee of the of the sackler family uh and and today to have the opportunity

1:57:22

uh you know for for the

1:57:25

kentucky people of kentucky to finally get the opportunity to uh make right

1:57:32

what they got uh so

1:57:35

tragically impacted by uh back in the uh late 90s and the 2000s i just i mean

1:57:42

it did it gives me great

1:57:44

hope uh not just for this country but for the for the uh the side of

1:57:48

righteousness that uh this happens

1:57:51

in a big and a powerful way here here um he mentions the kentucky experience um

1:57:57

before we

1:57:58

rolled out the ibogaine initiative there and i ran the opioid stood up the

1:58:02

opioid commission

1:58:03

i thought our first job was to go and to hear from the people of the state you

1:58:07

know we were getting

1:58:08

a billion dollars in settlement funds this money was coming to us because

1:58:11

thousands of their family

1:58:12

members had died so recognizing that confidence in government is at an all-time

1:58:18

low i thought it was

1:58:19

important to go out and say hey here's who we are here's the job we've been

1:58:23

given here's the resource

1:58:24

we have tell us what need you have in your community that we can look to fund

1:58:29

this is something that

1:58:31

needs to be accessible to grassroots organizations it needs to be accountable

1:58:36

to you as people and we

1:58:37

need to make sure we're transparent with how we use this money but our first

1:58:40

job is to listen

1:58:41

well over the course of 20 town halls across the state tuesday evenings from 6

1:58:46

pm until we wrapped up

1:58:48

what began as a 15 minute technocratic presentation of what this state

1:58:52

commission does turned into

1:58:54

these these mass catharsis events were hundreds of people thousands over the

1:59:04

course of those 20 town

1:59:05

halls poured out the depths of their grief right at our feet and after they did

1:59:11

the sum total of their

1:59:12

our response to us was we don't think that you have the competence or the

1:59:20

integrity to do anything

1:59:23

that's going to make a meaningful difference in this life in our lives and we

1:59:27

don't expect one cent of

1:59:29

this money is going to make the least bit of difference for us at one of these

1:59:33

town halls i heard about

1:59:35

a young woman by the name of tamra and the woman who told tamra's story was a

1:59:41

volunteer at a clinic for

1:59:43

the survivors of child sexual abuse this particular clinic made sure that

1:59:47

children received appropriate

1:59:49

medical treatment that they received proper therapeutic counseling and that

1:59:54

they were placed in family

1:59:56

circumstances where they could perhaps have a chance to have a decent life

2:00:00

so this volunteer told about meeting a young woman by the name of tamra when

2:00:04

tamra was 10 years old had

2:00:06

been horrifically sexually abused by a family member tamra had to have a series

2:00:11

of reconstructive

2:00:12

surgeries because of how awful it was and she said that she worked with tamra

2:00:18

for about two or

2:00:19

three years and that she went to her adopted family and she hadn't been heard

2:00:25

from since and that she assumed that

2:00:27

that that was despite how awful her circumstances were when she came through

2:00:31

the door that she managed to get

2:00:33

well and go on and have a relatively functional and and happy life as happy as

2:00:38

one can to be a survivor of those circumstances

2:00:41

this same woman said that about 10 years later she was volunteering at the perry

2:00:48

county kentucky detention center in

2:00:51

the county seat of hazard and that she was offering mindfulness and yoga

2:00:56

classes to inmates there just

2:00:59

as a volunteer and she said she went in one evening to teach her class and that

2:01:05

she saw this young

2:01:06

woman sitting in the corner after herself kind of withdrawn she didn't want to

2:01:09

come participate in any of

2:01:10

the yoga exercises or anything and that she was looking at her and she said you

2:01:14

know even though

2:01:15

she was an adult she looked kind of like what this young woman appeared tamra

2:01:19

when she was 10 years

2:01:21

old she said so i walked up to her and knelt down beside her and i said is your

2:01:26

name tamra and she said

2:01:30

that young woman looked up at her and recognized and i asked brian she said yes

2:01:34

how'd you know she said

2:01:35

i'm a volunteer who worked with you when you came to our clinic when you were

2:01:39

10. what are you doing in

2:01:41

here and tamra explained that because of the surgeries that she had performed

2:01:48

to be reconstructed they had

2:01:51

given her opioids and that what began to treat her physical pain she continued

2:01:57

to rely upon to treat her

2:01:59

tremendous spiritual and emotional pain and she had gotten busted by an oxy on

2:02:07

the street by a deputy with the

2:02:10

parry county sheriff's department and put in jail now you think about what i

2:02:15

just said about how

2:02:16

this young woman's life got started off and the response of power to her was a

2:02:22

prison this is why

2:02:24

what we're doing is so necessary and governor perry mentions one other reality

2:02:28

that's important

2:02:29

some of your viewers may have seen a politico article published on sunday about

2:02:40

a presidential aspirant by the name of andy beshear who is the current kentucky

2:02:47

governor

2:02:48

andy beshear was the attorney general of kentucky before he was governor he is

2:02:57

the son of his father

2:02:59

steve beshear who was governor for eight years between 2007 and 2015. andy's

2:03:06

greatest accomplishment is being

2:03:09

andy beshear who was governor of andy beshear who was governor of andy beshear

2:03:15

who was governor of andy beshear who was governor of kentucky

2:03:18

the legislature in kentucky has been controlled by republican supermajorities

2:03:21

over the entirety of his term

2:03:23

and everything for which he claims credit actually belongs to them by way of

2:03:29

accomplishment

2:03:30

there are a few things for which he can claim credit one is shutting down the

2:03:35

state of kentucky harder than gavin newsom

2:03:38

shut down the state of california which resulted in the educational hobbling of

2:03:44

an entire generation of

2:03:46

kentucky children who were already well behind national average standards on

2:03:51

both reading and math

2:03:53

you could go to a liquor store or a strip club for months in kentucky before

2:03:58

you could send your child

2:03:59

to a public school andy beshear is responsible for that he shut down the state's

2:04:05

entire economy

2:04:07

he had an antiquated unemployment benefit system that he instructed the

2:04:13

director of to make sure that his

2:04:16

contributors and his family members were placed into the front of the line

2:04:20

while regular everyday people

2:04:22

at home got a busy signal for months on end and had no financial lifeline while

2:04:28

his family and friends

2:04:30

got valet treatment when this was discovered he scapegoated the director of the

2:04:35

unemployment system

2:04:37

for following his own instructions a guy by the name of muncie mcnamara and mr

2:04:42

mcnamara took his own life

2:04:46

but the most egregious reality about andy beshear and his father pertains to

2:04:52

the fact that they were

2:04:54

both law partners at the law firm that represented purdue pharma against the

2:05:01

people of kentucky

2:05:02

and the litigation over oxycontin while they were law partners there andy beshear

2:05:10

and his daddy drew

2:05:12

law partner paychecks off purdue pharma client bills while they were there and

2:05:17

the people of kentucky

2:05:19

should have received a billion dollars but instead received a measly 24 million

2:05:25

dollar payout from

2:05:26

purdue pharma because andy and his daddy's law firm malpracticed that case the

2:05:32

public record will

2:05:34

establish that as part of the purdue pharma settlement 17 million documents

2:05:40

were destroyed

2:05:42

the case was put under seal and as a condition of the settlement their law firm

2:05:47

was allowed to cure

2:05:48

their malpractice of the case which resulted in a 24 million dollar settlement

2:05:53

within days

2:05:54

of andy beshear becoming the attorney general or that's right the attorney

2:05:58

general i said i've been

2:06:00

republican all my life and i have my family's been republican going back to the

2:06:05

civil war

2:06:07

i don't care if it's gavin newsom kamala harris pete buddha judge that illinois

2:06:12

governor governor pritzker

2:06:14

any national democrat who needs my time my effort whatever i can offer by way

2:06:24

of volunteer resources

2:06:27

to make sure that andy beshear never sniffs the sewer grate of the white house

2:06:32

they've got it in this

2:06:34

politico article andy talks about in much the same way as other performative

2:06:41

public piety purveyors

2:06:43

that his life is guided by the golden rule and the good samaritan he likes to

2:06:49

wear his sunday

2:06:50

school and deacon affiliations on his sleeve as so many other performative

2:06:55

public piety figures do

2:06:56

if he were actually going to preach the part of the bible that he has lived he

2:07:03

would talk more about

2:07:04

judas and the 40 pieces of silver than he would any golden rule and the good

2:07:09

samaritan and i just want

2:07:11

to make sure that the people of home and the people of america know who this

2:07:16

man is as the national media takes up

2:07:19

kentucky media's grotesque narrative about his decency and tries to lie him

2:07:24

into the white house

2:07:25

thank you for letting me say that it's been a long time coming i understand um

2:07:32

anything else before

2:07:33

we wrap this up i think we covered it all i think we hit it good thank you joe

2:07:37

thank you thank you brian

2:07:40

really big uh supporter of this effort and well i think it's just incredible i

2:07:44

mean it's i can't

2:07:46

believe it's happening you know i'd always kind of given up hope that people

2:07:49

would wake up

2:07:50

to the powerful potential that a lot of these compounds have to change people's

2:07:56

lives yeah well

2:07:58

i'm sure there were uh some teachers of mine back in uh the 1950s that uh the

2:08:04

idea that that little

2:08:06

burr-headed kid uh that is you know obviously uh not paying a lot of attention

2:08:13

could somehow another

2:08:14

end up being the governor of the great state of texas and um there's probably a

2:08:21

long long list of

2:08:23

those as a matter of fact and i'm sure there's some people over the course of

2:08:27

the last uh uh 15 years

2:08:29

as i matriculated up through the political process has said you know the idea

2:08:35

that this guy is going

2:08:36

to be standing up uh uh putting his reputation on the line for something like

2:08:40

psychedelics is that

2:08:43

that ain't going to happen uh but it goes back to your point about be curious

2:08:47

be courageous and make a

2:08:50

difference all right and you're doing it joe rogan thank you man thank you

2:08:54

thank you too brian thank

2:08:56

you and do you mind if i share one last thing sure and because it is the 250th

2:09:03

anniversary of the

2:09:04

country this comes from the heart you know the bicentennial children have had

2:09:10

the blessing of

2:09:11

being the grandchildren of that greatest generation that overcame the great

2:09:15

depression defeated nazism

2:09:17

killed jim crow and crushed totalitarian communism that greatest generation

2:09:23

loved lived suffered bled and

2:09:25

died to leave us the shining city on the hill over the past 50 years the bicentennial

2:09:32

children or

2:09:33

those who are known as generation x have experienced the mass extinction of

2:09:38

family and community we are the

2:09:42

first generational cohort of mass refugees from obliterated biological families

2:09:47

who had to seek and

2:09:48

build new families of choice based on the salvation bond of unconditional

2:09:53

affection rejected only the

2:09:56

superficial socialized separatism of the skin suits into which we have been

2:10:01

born over the past 30 years

2:10:05

we have watched truth justice and the american way be overrun by institutional

2:10:12

deceit white-collar criminality

2:10:16

in the thieving tyrant's will an odious alignment of official depravity which

2:10:21

has produced

2:10:22

the opioid epidemic the gravest engineered humanitarian catastrophe to play out

2:10:28

within our borders since the

2:10:29

end of the 19th century in an epidemic which has disfigured this country the

2:10:34

2008 financial crisis

2:10:38

which forcibly dispossessed millions of us from the american dream including 52

2:10:43

percent of african-american

2:10:45

homeowners and sent us the bill for the cost of our dispossession a bill that

2:10:50

everyone under the age of 40

2:10:52

continues to pay through their lack of economic mobility and finally and most

2:10:57

deplorably 25 years

2:10:59

of unremitting warfare which has taken exponentially more service member lives

2:11:03

here at home by suicide

2:11:05

than have been lost at battlefields abroad over the last 10 years 1.5 million

2:11:11

americans have died

2:11:13

from drug overdose alcohol-related disease and suicide a figure that exceeds

2:11:19

the total number of war casualties

2:11:22

going all the way back to 1776 we've got 102 counties with life expectancies

2:11:28

less than that of north korea

2:11:30

18 percent of respondents to a recent pew research center poll said that they

2:11:35

believe the federal government

2:11:37

has the capacity to do the right thing a figure that hasn't been above 30

2:11:41

percent since 2007. 80 percent of

2:11:45

respondents to an october 2025 wall street journal poll have said that the

2:11:50

american dream is dead power has

2:11:54

answered these unconscionable realities with a maelstrom of bureaucratic absurdity

2:11:59

impudent incompetence

2:12:02

and predatory corruption all with the blessing of the law which has used its

2:12:07

power to bind torture and kill

2:12:09

the truth in the decades prior to july 14 1789 the french government had ruthlessly

2:12:21

imposed its burdens

2:12:25

abusively imposed its costs and ravenously consumed the future of its people

2:12:32

the arrogance of the aristocracy

2:12:36

ultimately answered to the desperate determination of the peasantry and its guillotine

2:12:43

blade

2:12:44

we are here to pursue one of the greatest humanitarian missions ever undertaken

2:12:51

to serve and exalt the primacy

2:12:54

of the human soul as we sit here right now there are millions of americans who

2:12:59

have no sense of greater

2:13:02

purpose or of even why they are alive who mourn to see the sunrise when it

2:13:07

comes up and through their windows

2:13:09

and what they need to know is that they are indeed divine there's only one

2:13:15

thing that is known to produce

2:13:17

iron and that's the supernova of a star the iron in our blood originated in a

2:13:24

supernova eons ago

2:13:25

every human being has stardust running through their blood

2:13:31

and the movement that governor perry and i are leading is one that aims to

2:13:36

recognize the reality

2:13:38

of that human divinity we are desperate and we are determined and we will crawl

2:13:45

the last mile to deliver

2:13:48

good tidings unto the meek to bind up the brokenhearted to proclaim liberty to

2:13:55

the captives

2:13:56

and the opening of the prison to them that are bound glory glory hallelujah the

2:14:02

truth is marching on and

2:14:05

thank you sir for letting us proclaim it right here on your platform the walter

2:14:09

cronkite of our age that was

2:14:10

a beautiful way to end it thank you thank you gentlemen

2:14:28

Thank you.