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Shanna H. Swan, PhD, is an environmental epidemiologist and author of “Count Down.” She is the director of The Action Science Initiative, a program within the Million Marker Institute, and is featured in the documentary “The Plastic Detox,” now streaming on Netflix. www.netflix.com/title/82074244 www.simonandschuster.com/books/Count-Down/Shanna-H-Swan/9781982113674 www.mmresearch.orgwww.shannaswan.com
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Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
Great to see you again.
Great to see you, Joe.
Happy to be here.
Happy to have you here.
So you've got a documentary about the – essentially about the same subject
that you talked about
last time you were here, the impact of microplastics and all these various endocrine-disrupting
chemicals that we're dealing with.
Right.
Right?
Right.
Tell me about it.
Well, it started as a movie on plastic.
And when I met Louis and he filmed me in New York about five years ago also, it
wasn't the
small study that we have today.
But let me backtrack because I want to tell you something that I never told you
but was
so important to me.
So you remember when I was here, you said, are you saying the toxins in the
environment are
threatening the survival of the human race?
Right.
And I said, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Yes.
Yes.
And then you said something which changed my life.
You said, why don't people know about this?
Remember that?
Yes.
I went home and I thought a lot about that question and that was what led me to
create
the program that I have now, Action Science Initiative, which is doing short,
impactful, relatively
cheap interventions to alert people to the problem and communicating this in a
way that
I'm hoping will reach more people than academia, where I was speaking before.
Because before I talked to you, I talked to my peers in, you know, academia and
the ivory
tower, you know, at the meetings where they all went at the, they read the
papers that we
all read, but the general public didn't get this.
So you really were, I have to tell you, thank you.
And you were actually very influential in my life.
Well, I'm very happy to help.
When I first heard about your book and I started going over the details of it
and the subject
matter, I was shocked.
I couldn't imagine that something like this could not just have happened, but
there's no
large scale effort to reverse course or to change course or to do something
about it, or at
least to make people aware of the impact that plastics are having on us.
Let me tell you a story about a friend of mine.
There's a guy named Philip Franklin Lee, who is a Michelin star chef that lives
in Austin.
And he has this amazing sushi restaurant, Sushi by Scratch and great chef.
Anyway, he was experiencing fatigue, like always tired, got his hormones tested,
extremely low
testosterone, but then got his microplastics tested and they were off the
charts.
Did a series of interventions to try to clean his body out from that, stopped
drinking anything
out of plastic, stopped using plastic, just by whatever he did.
I'm not sure if he did the plasma phoresis thing that I just did recently.
His testosterone went up to 1200 with no testosterone replacement, no nothing.
Just eliminating microplastics from his life over a period of time raises
testosterone.
So that's fantastic and it's what we are seeing in the film and so on.
I want to just make a small point, which is microplastics and plastics and
plasticizers are not identical, right?
Okay.
Right.
So microplastics are relatively newcomer to the scene because we've had
plastics since 1950, right?
Microplastics have been there but not recognized until relatively recently and
actually measuring
them in our bodies is much harder than measuring the plasticizers, which are
the chemicals that
are put in plastic to give them the various properties that they have.
Phthalates.
Phthalates is one, bisphenol A is another, and so on.
So there are other, you know, and by the way, well, we'll come back to that
later.
So yes, we can measure those, but measuring microplastics in particularly if we're
going
to go into your brain or into your testicles, you know, into a woman's placenta,
obviously
that's much more difficult.
So they're not the same, but the microplastics, what they are is the actual
pieces of plastic
that carry the plasticizers along with them.
So they kind of piggyback on.
So they do double damage because they carry the chemical harms and they also
physically enter
the cells, right?
So do you remember, I'm sure asbestos you know about, you know, and silicosis,
and these
were other examples of particles that went into the body and conveyed both
chemical harm
and physical harm, like inflammation and so on and so forth.
So they're all bad, but they're not identical.
And what we studied in the plastic detox, which is the film, that was, we did
not study any
microplastics.
We studied the plasticizers.
So you probably remember, I think I told you last time, well, why should you
remember?
Anyway, they're water soluble.
And so they, remember that, you know, so they go into your urine and then they're
pretty easy
to measure.
So I'm going to give this to you.
This is a kit.
Open her up.
I don't tell you what it is.
Okay.
Learn what's inside.
All right.
It looks like you pee in that.
Hmm.
Okay.
That's right.
Keep going.
And there's more stuff in there?
Yep.
Okay.
Something to send it back.
Right.
And then this looks like a biohazard bag.
To put your pee in.
So my pee doesn't kill anybody.
And this is, it's got a QR code on it.
Say hello to a healthier you.
So those are ways to find out ways to lower your exposure.
Okay.
Yeah.
A lot of people get these harmful chemicals from drinking coffee, hot liquids
out of paper
cups.
Yeah.
From the paper cups that are lined with, for example, bisphenols.
But the coffee itself is made in a, most coffee makers contain a lot of plastic
also.
Right.
In both the cups and in the, the device that's making the coffee.
That's why we use metal.
And just make a French press.
That's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do that at home too.
I got rid of my plastic coffee machine.
Me too.
Me too.
Me too.
I was thinking about it.
It was like, why am I pouring hot water into this plastic thing that can't be
good?
Yeah.
It doesn't taste as good.
You're learning.
You're learning.
French press tastes better anyway.
So here's my suggestion.
If you're willing to do this.
I am willing to do this.
You are.
Good.
Cool.
Yes.
Me in the cup.
Send it in.
Got it.
Then my colleague, Jenna Wah, and her team will analyze it for not everything
in the world,
but the bisphenols, the phthalates, and the parabens.
Okay.
That's what they're, they're going to be adding pesticides soon, and that would
be great to have
that as well.
Hmm.
Then, if you want to go to phase two, I can, I have some things here that you
could swap
in your kitchen, and you could go to that QR code and find out other things
that you could
reduce.
And then, if you wanted to, we could send you another kit, and you could see if
your levels
changed.
Okay.
You want to do that?
Okay.
So, what is phase two?
Phase two would mail you back another kit.
Uh-huh.
You take your urine again, and that's it.
And so, that's to see if it's changed because of lifestyle changes.
That's right.
That's right.
Right.
That's right.
So, you would be doing what the couples in, part of what the couples in the
intervention
did.
The couples in the intervention also were infertile.
And so, we're not going to touch your fertility question, but they also, the
men collected sperm,
and we can do that if you want, but I don't think you, you know, you may not
want to talk
about that on your ... But that's what we did in the intervention.
So, we, in the intervention, we found ... I'll just ... This is what the
intervention was.
There's a company called Fellow, which is grown out of UCSF, and they're very
big now.
I think they have like 200,000 men in their files who have had their semen
tested, okay?
And at the time they have their semen tested, they're asked, "Could we recontact
you for
research?"
That's one important question.
And they're asked, "Why did you want your sperm tested?"
And if they say, "Because we're infertile, or subfertile, or we worrying about
our fertility,"
we ask, or they ask, "How long has it been that you've been having this problem
with fertility?"
And if it's more than 12 months, then they're technically infertile, right?
So, if they said they would agree to be recontacted and they were infertile,
they were potentially
eligible for this intervention.
You with me?
So, actually finding the couples that are in the film was a long process.
They had to, of course, agree to be filmed.
They had to have what we call, terrible word, idiopathic infertility, no known
causes.
And they couldn't be obese.
They couldn't be smokers.
They couldn't have a diagnosis, a medical diagnosis that explains.
We don't want it to be unexplained.
Got it.
Okay?
So, sort of, we winnowed down to what was six couples.
Part of them dropped out for personal reasons, so I won't go into that.
But that's how we got those couples.
They had to be couples, by the way.
And they had to be staying together for the next three months and not doing IVF.
Okay?
Okay.
So, that was the setup.
And then, the company called Million Marker that you're going to send your P to,
they have
an education program, and that's a lot of what they do, the testing and the
education.
And so, all of those couples, you know, they talked to them and said, "Tell me
about what
you put on your face this morning.
Tell me what you washed your clothes with.
Tell me what you clean your counters with," and on and on and on like that,
right?
So, they took an inventory of what the couples were doing.
And then, they started this educational program, which they're very good at and
been doing for
a while.
Once a week, they talk to them.
"So, how's it going?
Have you changed this?
What are you using now?"
And so on.
So, it was not just a one-time thing.
And if you were doing this, it would be short, you know, just like use these
things maybe.
But along with that, we sent them the fellow kits to collect their semen.
Okay?
Okay?
So, we have beginning, middle, and end.
It was three months, so beginning, six weeks, twelve weeks.
And, you know why three months?
Why?
It takes 70 days to make a sperm.
Mmm.
So, we wanted to have a turnover within the course of the intervention.
Yeah.
So, we sent them a kit, and they collected their semen at home, which is nice
for guys,
because you don't have to go into the lab and do it there.
You know, it's much better at home, right?
Awkward.
Yeah.
And they sent it in, and they figured out how to get all the parameters right,
even though
it's mailed.
And, yeah, so the couples did that.
So, we had, over time, levels in their body of the chemicals, semen quality,
what they were
doing, what they changed in their life, because we had this record of
everything they changed.
And then finally, we saw who got pregnant.
And I hope your listeners will watch The Plastic Detox.
It's a movie that a lot of people love and found, you know, really moving.
And you should watch it.
Can I ask you about the coffee question?
When you go to a place like, let's just say Starbucks, not to single them out,
but are
they using plastic with their coffee machines?
Are there coffee machines made with plastic?
I don't know about any particular place except my kitchen.
I was just with the question.
Yeah.
I suspect that they are using plastic.
Right.
So, if people stop at a place like that on a regular basis, on their way to
work in the
morning to get coffee, and they use, they bring their own plastic, or excuse me,
they bring
their own stainless steel thermos or mug, that would eliminate some of it, but
perhaps-
One source.
Yeah.
They're getting it actually from the coffee machine itself.
Yes.
Because I see when they slide those-
Yes, yes, yes.
That's right.
When you see these big industrial machines, and they slide those filters in,
those filters
are plastic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, they're probably, they probably have bisphenol in them.
Yeah.
Right.
It's a plastic tray.
I don't know.
But then there's a paper filter in the plastic tray.
Right.
So, you're getting it, no matter what.
If they use those pods-
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
At home.
Bruno, one of our guys in the film, wonderful guy.
He was kind of addicted to his coffee machine, his pods.
Right, the pods.
And we said, "Bruno, we want you to stop using those pods."
He said, "No, I don't want to stop using them."
But he did.
He did.
And they've had two babies.
Yeah.
Now, I'm not saying that's the reason, but, you know, it's a contribution
probably.
Well, there is certainly an issue, like I said with my friend Philip, that it
made a
radical difference in his sperm count and his testosterone levels.
And so, this is probably the case with so many Americans in this country that
are dealing
with infertility issues.
A big part of it is probably these plasticizers, is that how you refer to them?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Plasticizers, all these various chemicals that are endocrine disruptors that
are ubiquitous
in the modern world.
Yes.
Unfortunately.
It's crazy.
So, the women, let me tell you something, we didn't talk about the women last
time very
much, right?
A little bit, we did.
A little.
Yeah.
I think we did.
So, the women need testosterone too, you know, for sexual arousal and libido
and so
on, and muscle.
And we, in our study, study for future families, I think, or maybe, yeah.
We got the urine and we saw what they, you know, how much phthalates were in
their urine.
And then we asked them some questions about their sexual experience.
So, how satisfied were they with their sexual life and frequency.
And the women who had higher levels of phthalates had less satisfaction and
lower frequency.
So, it's not just the men.
Completely makes sense.
Everyone needs testosterone.
Yeah.
My wife's friend got on testosterone.
She's, I guess she's about 50.
And she got on testosterone because of her, her doctor put her on some low
level of cream
or something like that.
And her, her response was like, it makes me horny like a bloke.
She's English.
I thought that was a very funny thing that she said it that way.
Did she think that was a good thing?
Yeah.
She enjoyed it.
Apparently.
Allegedly.
I didn't speak to her directly.
But I think that's what she was saying.
Like, whoa.
You know, just whoa.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's the thing that came out of your, the episode that we did
that shocked
me the most is how little this is discussed in the mainstream.
And I had not known until you brought it up, until you became a guest on the
show, until
I started researching it.
I was stunned.
I couldn't believe that this was something that was so common.
And so, so one of the things that comes up all the time is infertility with
couples that
are trying and they're using IVF and it's more common now than ever before.
And there's been a lot of things that people, a lot of factors that people have
attributed
to that reason.
A lot of them being older people that are, you know, they put their careers
aside in their
thirties.
They decided now it's time to have kids.
They're worried that it's too late.
But listening to you talk about it, it seems like that's only one part of the
issue and
not the big part.
The big part seems to be that we're being poisoned and we're doing it by virtue
of our modern world
that we live in where so much of your life relies on plastic.
And it's very difficult for people that are so set in their ways.
They have routines.
They don't really understand, like, what can I do to eliminate this stuff from
my life?
Just having the conversation and understanding that these things are having an
impact is great.
But the steps that people need to take in order to eliminate these things from
their life,
I think that's what's really important to get out there now.
I thank you.
You said it really well.
Let me just give people a place to go.
You go to on plastic your life dot com.
OK, and then there's action and then you can go to the various places in your
home that you can.
It's just on plastic your life.
One word on plastic on plastic your life dot com.
Yeah.
Let me see if I got that.
Yeah.
So on plastic your life dot com, go to action hub and then to protect yourself.
OK.
And that'll give you lots of things to do to lower these exposures.
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Non-stick cookware that stuff has.
That's different.
Is that different?
Yeah.
When you have non-stick cookware, does that have any endocrine disrupting
chemicals as well?
Yes, but different ones.
Different ones?
Yeah.
Those are what's called the PFAS chemicals, and it's actually not just cookware.
It's anything that puts a barrier between two mediums, if you will.
Like a rain jacket will put a barrier between the rain and your skin.
Right.
And also stain resistant, barrier with the stain.
And it's very, very prevalent.
I mean, it's all, you know, it's in clothing.
It's in...
I've read it's in a lot of yoga tights and things along those lines.
Yes.
Workout clothes.
That's so crazy.
You think you're being healthy.
Yeah.
And you're exposing yourself to endocrine disrupting chemicals.
And uniforms.
There's a book.
I probably shouldn't recommend another book, but I think it's a good book.
I'll just say.
It's called To Die For, D-Y-E.
Uh-huh.
And it's about the flight attendants uniforms and the harms that they do
because they're coated.
They have a lot of PFAS because they, you know, have to keep clean.
And they've got...
They're not clean, right?
Right.
Because they have this PFAS in them.
It's in sports uniforms.
Oh, no.
You do a lot of sports.
All the sports uniforms.
Nylon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anything with nylon?
Is that what it is?
All nylons?
Probably, but I'm not sure.
I'm not, you know, I could refer you to somebody, but I'm not the clothing
expert.
But I know that they're in these things.
And one of the things that is kind of scary is school uniforms.
You know, a lot of kids have school uniforms and they're loaded with it.
Oh.
Yeah.
The kids used to wear a uniform every day.
Yeah.
When you say to dye for, are dyes in cotton clothes also releasing?
Yes.
Really?
Yes.
Dyes are very risky.
We've got to go back to being Amish.
Yeah.
Here it is.
Oh, good.
Yeah.
Dyes.
The clothes or textiles we wear each day from uniforms to fast fashion, outdoor
gear, and even
the face masks that have become ubiquitous in recent years.
Wicker explains how we got here, what the stakes are, what all of us can do in
the fight for
a safe and healthy wardrobe for all.
Wow.
Yeah.
And that's in the film.
There's disgust in the film.
Okay.
A little bit.
Not the major, but it's-
So, blue jeans?
Probably.
Probably.
I can't, you know, speak about-
There is a river, I believe it's in China, where a series of blue jean
factories exist,
where the entire river is blue.
It's so disgusting.
Like, not blue like beautiful, clean water.
Blue like dye.
Died water.
Like dye.
Look at this.
Look at that.
Oh.
That's the blue jean capital of the world.
Wow.
That's where they make a lot of blue jeans, and look at the stinky, dirty,
disgusting,
blue dye water that is just that river leaking out into the ocean, which also
looks polluted.
Yeah.
You want cheap clothes, kids?
This is what happens.
It's so crazy.
Like, look at that stuff.
I mean, how many jeans are they making?
And what are the, you know-
And this is a good point for me to point out that these things are affecting
animals,
of course.
Like the animals-
African too.
Look at this.
Yeah.
Of course we do it in other places.
If we did it in America, people would be aware.
Canada.
Canada too.
I'm not sure they'd be aware.
You don't think so?
No.
We're trying.
We're trying.
We're trying to get them aware.
I mean, that's what we're doing right now, right?
Right.
So, to go back to that point you raised about, you know, reasons that people
give for low testosterone,
or low fertility, low sperm count, and particularly this comes up for fertility.
More couples are-
You know the fertility is in the toilet, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
That's a weird thing to say, but-
Yeah.
Right.
For lack of a better.
Yeah.
And, I mean, it used to be five children per couple on the average in 1960, and
now it's-
In South Korea, it's like 0.88.
Wow.
That's the worst, you know.
Why is South Korea the worst?
I don't know.
I mean, all of East Asia is very, very low.
South Korea is- their replacement numbers are so low-
That's right.
That it's- they're in danger of complete population collapse.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And Japan is getting there, and, you know, all of that Southeast Asia.
And, so, when- there's a lot of articles about this, a lot of editorials, a lot
of articles,
and they make me so- Joe, they make me so mad.
Because they say, correctly, that having a child at an older age will do this,
to some extent.
You know, not wanting to have children, as many children will do this, to some
extent.
But they never mention toxics.
They just- and so, I've written editorials saying, hey, guys, we're not alone
on this planet.
And we're not the only species that's declining in number.
And then if you look at the curve of the number of species that are declining,
and the rate of decline of human fertility, they're parallel.
It's all about 1% per year.
And so, they're- and we know they're exposed, these other species.
You showed it.
Mm-hmm.
Those fish in that water are exposed, and, you know, animals on the periphery.
So, I would love for everybody, when they look at these numbers of declining
fertility,
consider that it's not all choice.
Right.
Animals are not choosing to have their children later, or to delay childbearing,
right?
They have big careers.
Beavers are trying to make dams.
They don't have time for children.
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So, for me, you know, it's not- those are good- those are explanations, for
sure.
Obviously, when you get older, your fertility is less.
Obviously, if you have a busy life, and you don't have time to have children,
you shouldn't have children.
But the toxics matter.
They matter a lot.
Yeah.
100%.
Yeah.
And the animals, is the issue exposure to water that has these chemicals in it
because of pollution?
What is- what is causing it with them?
It's all- it's in the water, it's in the soil, it's in the- what they eat,
because it comes in, you know, in the plants.
It gets into the plants?
Yeah.
Do you know that phthalates- I'm just- there's a little- fun fact.
Phthalates are put in pesticides.
Why would they do that?
Well, they- because one of the things that phthalates do is they increase
absorption.
That's why they're in hand cream.
Ah.
Right?
You see, you put your hand cream on, it goes in your skin, right?
Phthalates help that.
You- you have the pesticide you wanted to go into the plant?
Phthalates help that.
So, you know, they're- those exposures are all over the place for- and animals
are getting them too.
A long time ago- I don't think we talked about this, but there was a wonderful
scientist who's not living anymore.
His name is Lou Gillette.
He lived in Florida.
And he showed that alligators swimming in a lake that had a lot of runoff of
pesticides- get this, their penises were small.
Hmm.
He measured them.
And he was- he was a big- he's like he was a big guy.
He- he went- he had to do it at night.
He went at night, wrestled them into the boat.
And I have pictures of that.
Took them to his lab.
Measured their penises.
Measured their penises.
They must have been very confused when they got let go.
Like, what is this guy kinky with?
What is his thing?
You know, and- and they- and they had fewer eggs.
Right.
So they're a declining species.
That's just a very dramatic example of- you know, if you- can you put up- mmm,
penis size and- alligator penis size?
I'm just wondering.
As if you don't already Google that, Jamie.
Let me find you a photo.
I asked our perplexity of this thing and it says-
So our sponsor perplexity said, yes, this has actually been documented in wild
alligators.
Males in heavily polluted legs have on average smaller penises and other
reproductive problems linked to hormone disrupting chemicals.
We are shrinking alligator penises, ladies and gentlemen.
And not only-
20 to 25% smaller penis sizes compared to males from a cleaner reference lake.
Males of lower testosterone levels, around 70% lower.
Abnormal relationships between hormone levels and penis growth, unlike alligators
from cleaner lakes.
Alligators from polluted lakes also show other reproductive issues, abnormal
sex hormone patterns, altered gonads, low hashing success, various birth
defects,
all consistent with exposure to endocrine disrupting contaminants, EDC, such as
DDT derivatives, deildrin, PCBs, and related compounds.
Wow.
So it's all endocrine disruptors from pollution.
Oh, boy.
Yeah, I mean, you would think that this would sound the alarm.
And this is not new.
This is...
Who's dead?
This is old work.
Oh.
And no one knows.
Yeah, it's never...
First of all, there's not a lot of people that say, first problem on my list
today, alligator penis sizes.
It's a real issue.
Like, you're in front of Congress.
We've got to talk.
Alligator penis sizes are shrinking.
They'd kick you out of the building.
Actually, he, Lou Gillette, went to Congress, and he gave talk, and he said, "Every
man in this room is half the man his grandfather was."
Mmm.
As far as testosterone levels, right?
And penis sizes.
Well, he didn't measure their penis sizes, but he was making this point.
Yeah, I understand.
And fertility and all this.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, it completely makes sense.
But what doesn't make sense is how little attention that's being paid.
You would think that in a society that is...
I mean, America is also facing a potential population collapse.
People don't think about that, but our reproduction numbers, we're not reprodu...
Yeah, they're down quite a bit, and they're not at the level that we need in
order to keep our population.
It's the, you know, the normal shape of the population is like this, right?
Mm-hmm.
So this is up here, not very many people, and down here, lots and lots of
people.
And this is in terms of age, older, younger, at the bottom.
And it's like going like this.
Right.
Lots of people are living longer, but few are down here.
And then what that means is the ones down here are supposed to support the ones
up here.
But there's not enough of them.
But there's not enough of them.
But not enough of them.
Right.
Yeah.
So it's a huge societal problem.
Well, it's just so confusing how few people are even aware of this.
We were talking...
I didn't realize it had been five years since our last podcast, which is pretty
crazy.
But in that five years, you barely hear about it.
It's occasional.
People bring up certain chemicals they think are bad.
Oh, avoid this.
Paul Saladino was the one that showed that the paper cups that you get from a
coffee shop,
that if you take that paper away, what you have is essentially this plastic
membrane.
And that's what you're drinking your coffee out of.
You're not drinking your coffee out of paper.
And how terrible these things are for you.
Yeah.
But even that, it's like people just dismiss it.
The line around Starbucks is always the same.
There's always people going to get their coffee.
They don't think anything of it.
And they're just consuming these chemicals that mess up your health, mess up
your vitality,
your energy levels, everything, brain fog, all these.
But whose responsibility is it?
You know?
Well, to talk about it, I think it's ours.
It's certainly yours and mine.
You and me?
Or...
And we'll spread this word and more people discuss it.
And I think more people need to be aware that this directly impacts you.
Like, this is not like in the future.
I don't have to think about it.
I'll be dead.
No.
It directly impacts your health, your energy levels, your vitality right now as
a living
human being listening to this show.
So, just to add to that how it affects you, not you.
Humans.
Maybe your levels are lower.
I don't know, but we'll find out.
But both men and women who have lower fertility, on average, these are studies.
There have been about four or five studies that have shown this.
Lower fertility and sperm count, on the male side, die younger.
Die younger.
Okay?
This should be of concern to everybody.
Yeah.
Well, it makes sense.
Your life expectancy is...
Yeah.
Less vitality.
Less energy.
Less life force.
Yeah.
And the things that affect your sperm, your vitality, your testosterone, are
also affecting
other...
It's a canary in the coal mine, if you will, of lots of things that are going
south.
Right.
At the same time.
Which completely makes sense.
And as the case of my friend Phillip, all this fatigue, all these issues that
he was experiencing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's not just one...
Never just one thing.
Right.
Yeah.
It's...
It is quite disturbing how uncommon these discussions are, though.
That's what's crazy.
You know, that this is a...
This should be a huge factor.
I mean, we get concerned with so many...
Oh, there's people concerned with alcohol consumption.
It's a big thing, like...
And that has had an impact.
Children today, or young adults, I should say, today, are consuming much less
alcohol than
people in the past.
Cigarette smoking.
We're aware.
Very dangerous.
Much less cigarette smoking than in the past.
The consumption of these endocrine-disrupting chemicals is essentially the same
as when we talked five
years ago.
So, I want to go back to this question I asked, is whose responsibility?
So I don't think it's...
I mean, it's great for you and I to be concerned, and for your listeners to be
concerned.
But in fact, it shouldn't be our responsibility.
Because the...
You know, the drug...
FDA does drugs, right?
They have pretty good control of, you know, safety of drugs.
Eh.
Pretty good.
Eh.
Yeah.
But compared to chemicals in our daily products, the products we use every day,
it's fantastic.
Right.
Because the regulatory agencies are not doing the job.
Right.
Okay?
And so, that's why it's all out there, 'cause they're not doing the job.
Here, in Europe, it's much better, by the way.
Is it?
Yeah.
Well, that's bad, 'cause they're gonna beat us.
Yes.
They'll out-reproduce us.
We'll go away.
They'll take over.
Well...
No more America.
We have to get people angry enough to put pressure on, you know, there's a bill,
the
TSCA Toxic Substances Control Act, which should be doing a lot of this, and I
think it's coming
up for revision and, you know, maybe people can pay attention to that and read
about it
and, you know, think, government should be doing this.
It's not our job.
Mm-hmm.
It's not our job to worry about what's in our pants and what's in our this and
our this
and our this.
Right.
You were asking what kind of, you know, denim and so on.
Should we have to read up on that?
Is there, are there dyes for jeans and clothes that are not toxic?
Yes, but as I said, this is not my area.
I understand.
I'll get, I can give you a name if you want to get somebody on clothing and,
you know,
on this.
Yeah.
I'd be happy to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But just because it was relatively new to my consciousness when I was, you know,
doing the
film and before that, we didn't collect data on that, unfortunately.
You know, maybe we should do another study, which reminds me, there is just
like so much
work to be done.
And for my program, there's so many interventions I want to do.
We did this one, which great success.
And now we're doing another one and we have another one.
But if anybody wants to help with this, it's all privately funded.
The government is not going to fund this.
Right.
Unfortunately.
Unfortunately.
So, you know, let me know if anybody comes to you and says, how can we help and
all that.
Well, I'm sure somebody will reach out.
Yeah.
They usually do.
The thing that I would imagine would be the response to something like this was
that there
are so many industries that are established already that require the use of all
these compounds,
all these chemicals, all these endocrine-disrupting chemicals, and it's just
everywhere.
And it's everywhere in everything.
They use plastic in the production of so many different things.
These things are leaching into our food, they're leaching into our clothes,
they're leaching into
all these various products that we use that contribute to these chemicals
entering into our body.
Disrupting that, so like you're aware of glyphosate, I'm sure.
They were trying to eliminate glyphosate from the industrial agriculture.
Good luck.
Exactly.
Well, the president passed an executive order blocking it because some enormous
percent, 90-something
percent of all of our food in terms of wheat, corn, all the agriculture in this
country relies
on glyphosate for production.
And so the idea is we need poison so that we can make food, which is so crazy,
especially
when you consider the fact that all these other countries don't use glyphosate
and feed their
population.
So how are they doing it and what do we need to do to get back on that track?
You know, I had RFK Jr. in here to discuss it and he was very crestfallen when
he was explaining
that there was an executive order passed and that, you know, he was working
very hard to
try to eliminate glyphosate in something that he discussed in, you know,
previous meetings
that he and I had that was one of his primary concerns.
Glyphosate is toxic.
It's terrible.
It's just completely awful for your body.
Yet the use of it is ubiquitous in agriculture, industrial agriculture.
Yeah.
And he was trying very hard to try to eliminate it.
And then the government passes this executive order because in their estimation...
Pressure.
Yeah, exactly.
Pressure.
Yeah.
And this is what I worry about with...
Yeah, of course.
And I don't want to mention any names, but there's a lot of these popular
clothing brands
that people wear that are, you know, "Fitness, I'm healthy, I'm fitness wear."
And these fitness wear, these clothings that you're wearing are leaching these
chemicals
into your body that are screwing up your health, which is so crazy.
Crazy, right?
But it's so...
I don't want to say it's perfect, but it sort of encapsulates how screwed up
our modern life
is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The paradox.
So I did a study on glyphosate.
I mean, I examined our populations for glyphosate.
And interestingly, they also have an effect on...remember anogenital distance?
Yes.
The taint size.
The taint size.
Yes.
They influence the taint size.
Yeah.
Now that's not...we did it in two studies and there's been some animal studies.
I can't say this is an established fact, but I'm just pointing out that it has
very, you
know, many unforeseen consequences, none of them good.
And by the way, I was asked to go to talk to RFK tomorrow, but I can't because
I have
another call, a meeting, but I would love to talk to him about this because
this glyphosate
is a big concern of mine.
Yeah, because...
Well, I hope you do talk to him.
Yeah, he has these round tables and on different scientific topics.
So this one is on microplastics, which is not perfect for me because I haven't
measured
them, but if he has one on glyphosate or pesticides, that would be a good place.
Well, his hands are tied right now on the glyphosate issue momentarily.
Yeah.
They have some non-toxic solutions.
One of them is they have this new device, which is like the same way these
machines pull the
crops out of the ground.
These machines go over the crops and zap all the non-essential crops with a
laser beam.
Non-essential crops, excuse me, non-essential plants.
So weeds, I would say.
So as the corn's growing or whatever else it is, they're zapping all the other
stuff that's
growing around it that's sucking up all the resources, all the weeds.
Interesting, yeah.
Yeah.
That sounds like a good step.
That's a great step.
Because it minimizes the use of pesticides.
Exactly.
And I asked, "Does it have any residual effect on the food?"
He said, "No."
Well, that's great.
But then farmers, one of the big problems is they're already barely making
money.
So if you now require them to spend X amount of dollars on some gigantic weed-zapping
laser
that has to cover who knows how many acres they're running these, I mean, I'm
sure you're aware,
but monocrop agriculture, for people who've never seen, some of these places
that grow corn
and wheat, you're talking about these massive pieces of land that only grow one
thing, which
in nature doesn't exist.
So, of course, nature wants to rectify that.
Nature's like, "Why is there only weed here?
You need weeds."
And so, you know, birds drop seeds, all these seeds fly in the wind, and then
all these things
grow.
So you're going to have to get these machines that are capable of traveling
over all of those
crops and zapping out all the weeds.
How much is that going to cost to people that are already struggling?
Yeah.
You know, because the American farmers are barely getting by, barely, and we
need them.
And you know, the last thing you want to do is burden them with another cost.
But also, the use of, especially when it comes to things like wheat, because
they're using
it after they harvest the wheat to dry it out quicker so that it doesn't grow
mold on it.
That's why they're using glyphosate.
So it's not even, it's not even as a pesticide.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
They're using it as a, I guess, a desiccator.
Wow.
Yeah.
And that's why so many theorized to be why so many people in this country have
a problem
with bread.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
It should make sense.
And with their taint.
No.
And their taint.
Yeah.
A lot of taint problems.
A lot of people complaining.
But it's just, it's so weird that we're so intelligent and so informed, and you
know, now we all have
supercomputers in our pockets that have access to things like perplexity that
can answer any
questions you have about anything.
And yet we're being poisoned by the very food that we eat, the coffee that we
drink, the
clothing that we wear.
Water we drink.
The water we drink.
Everything.
Yeah.
Here's a good question.
Are there any good filters on a consumer level that will remove a lot of these
chemicals
from water that a person can buy?
I can't name any brands.
Right.
But are they available?
Yes, there are.
But I would...
Is it reverse osmosis?
Like what are the ones that work the best?
I'll tell you my solution in my house.
Yes.
Please.
Okay.
That's very personal.
We distill our water.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
So the water out of the tap goes into a big container and then it's boiled.
Steam is formed, crosses over, and the steam is condensed into another
container, right?
Right.
And that has nothing in it and removes everything.
And by the way, all germs also.
So that's what we've chosen.
And in this thing that sits on the counter, my husband does this every other
day.
It's kind of a nuisance, but not too bad.
And the water is fantastic.
Do you have to remineralize it?
You should take minerals somewhere.
You can do it in the water.
You can do it in your supplements.
It does remove the minerals, yes.
Right.
And that's what I've heard is the problem with drinking distilled water is that
it actually
leaches minerals and nutrients from your own body.
That I don't believe.
No?
I don't believe that.
The water itself has had its minerals.
Well, let's put it into perplexity.
What is the issue with drinking distilled water for health purposes?
And is it recommended that you add electrolytes or minerals or what have you?
Because that's...so one of the things that fighters do when they're cutting
weight, I don't
think most of them do it anymore, but a lot of them were drinking distilled
water so that
the water would go in their system and right out of their system.
Because cutting weight for fighting, I don't know if you know about this, but
they have
to weigh in at a certain weight class and essentially what they do is radically
dehydrate themselves
24 hours before a fight, which is not a great idea.
It's a terrible idea.
So perplexity says it is generally safe to drink distilled water.
Most people do not need to add minerals to it as long as they eat a reasonably
balanced
diet.
Distilled water is simply water that has been boiled and recondensed, so it's
very low in
contaminants and minerals.
Health sources note that it is safe to drink but tends to taste flat because
minerals like
calcium, magnesium are removed.
What about minerals?
You get the vast majority of needed minerals, calcium, magnesium, potassium,
etc. from food,
not water.
So distilled water alone does not usually cause deficiencies in healthy people
with a good
diet.
However, some organizations and reviews point out that long term use of very
low mineral
water may slightly reduce mineral intake.
And in specific groups, children, heavy exercisers, there we go, people with
certain illnesses could
contribute to electrolyte imbalance if diet is poor.
So when might adding minerals help?
Distilled water is humane or only drinking water and your diet is low in fruits,
vegetables,
and other mineral rich foods.
Adding a pinch of mineral salt or using a remineralization cartridge, that
sounds terrible.
Cartridge sounds like plastic, right?
Or drops can help restore small amounts of calcium, magnesium, and electrolytes
and improve taste.
Athletes who sweat heavily, people with kidney or hormonal issues affecting
electrolytes and
those on very restricted diets should be more cautious about relying
exclusively on distilled water and
may benefit from electrolyte or mineral replacement as advised by a clinician.
I mean, I recommend people take electrolytes anyway.
I always add electrolytes to water every day.
Here's a funny anecdote.
We have a cat.
What's the cat's name?
His name is Archie.
Archie!
Archie!
And Archie comes, patrols the house and steals our water whenever possible.
He comes and drinks from our glasses unless we cover them up.
So they think Archie probably likes your water because it doesn't smell like
poison to him.
He loves our water.
And he has the choice of his own water, which comes out of the tap.
And he will 100% prefer our distilled water.
Which makes sense if you think about a cat's sense of smell.
It's got to be off the charts.
Yeah.
So he can probably smell like this water's got a bunch of junk in it.
And when you do the distill, do the process, which Steven does, you know, every
other day,
and he goes to clean the container that you put the water in, it stinks.
It really stinks.
It really stinks.
You would be shocked.
Wow.
Well, we have a crazy filter at our house.
We have well water, and then we have this crazy filter, this giant machine that
filters all the water.
It tastes delicious.
But it's not distilled.
I'm not saying that, you know, you shouldn't distill.
That's an alternative.
I mean, sorry.
You shouldn't filter.
That's an alternative.
But I'm just saying what we chose to do in our house.
Right.
And so the distilling, it removes chlorine and all these other issues that are
in the water as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And fluoride.
Everything.
Fluoride is another one that's bananas that we add to water under the guise
that it helps
your teeth.
Like, shut up.
Brush your teeth.
You know, I don't have any cavities.
I don't use fluoride.
I have fluoride-free toothpaste.
I don't have fluoride in my water.
It's dumb.
It's not just dumb.
It's completely connected to lower IQs.
There's a direct correlation between higher fluoride content in water and lower
IQs.
But there's a giant business involved in selling fluoride to these municipal
water supplies.
I know.
Which is nuts.
More poison.
And we are so screwed up.
And then there's chlorination.
Chlorination.
Yeah.
And I've said, for years I studied chlorination byproducts and they cause miscarriage.
So, it's got to be terrible for people that swim a lot in public pools, right?
Yeah.
Because then it's being absorbed by your skin.
I don't know how much exposure you get in the relatively short time you're
swimming.
You know, I don't know.
Let's find out.
Yeah.
Let's find out.
Put that into perplexity.
How much of an issue is chlorine exposure in swimming pools?
Hmm.
Let's find out.
We don't know.
We're learning so much.
I like how there's a little science.
I feel like that question is going to get tossed around here by perplexity
because it could
go multiple ways with it.
Like, is there too much chlorine?
Like, what are you, you know what I mean?
Right.
Okay.
Let's say, uh, is chlorine exposure in swimming pools a health concern?
Yeah.
That's good.
There we go.
Let's try that.
Yeah.
I bet it is.
I mean, it only makes sense.
I would like to study someone like Michael Phelps.
Someone who's spent, like, thousands of hours in a pool.
Yeah.
Whether or not it's affected his body in any way.
Whether or not there's, like, measurable chlorine levels in his urine or what
have you.
Chlorine in properly maintained pools is generally considered safe, but it can
cause irritation
of eyes, skin, and airways.
Well, that can't be good.
And heavily frequent exposure, especially indoors, can contribute to
respiratory problems
in some people.
What chlorine does in pools?
Chlorine does in pools.
It kills germs like bacteria and viruses in pools and is key for preventing
infections
and diarrhea illnesses from contaminated water.
Public health guidance typically recommends free chlorine about one to four
parts per million
with pH 7.0 to 7.8 within this range.
Disinfection is effective and side effects are usually mild.
Common short-term effects: irritation of eyes, nose, throat, skin, common when
levels are high,
when chloramines build up, especially in indoor pools.
Chloramines form when chlorine reacts with sweat, urine, and other organic
matter,
can become airborne and irritate the respiratory tract, causing coughing, wheezing,
or tight chest
in some swimmers and staff.
Long-term regular heavy exposure in indoors poorly ventilated pools has been
linked to increased
respiratory symptoms.
Some studies suggest increased asthma risk.
Okay.
Put this in as a follow-up question.
Is exposure to chlorine through the skin responsible for any health issues?
Let's just, just through the skin, see if there's any studies on that.
Chlorine getting into the body through the intact skin from pool water does not
appear to cause
systemic whole body health problems in otherwise healthy people.
Its effects are almost entirely local to the skin itself.
What skin exposure actually does, chlorine's an irritant that strips the
natural skin oils
disrupts the outer barrier leading to dryness, tightness, itching.
So put about, put this in.
What exposure does chlorine have to healthy skin flora?
Because healthy skin flora, you know, I, I do jujitsu.
And one of the things that happens with jujitsu is you get a lot of skin
diseases.
Like you get, people get ringworm, staph infections.
Why?
Well, you're getting scratched up a lot and you're rolling around on the mats.
And if the mats are dirty and if it's just, there's exposure to it, you can
have a problem.
And then one of the problems that people have is to treat that.
They use antibacterial skin soap.
So what that does is strips the skin of all the healthy flora, which actually
protects you.
The counter to that, I always bring this up.
I have no affiliation with this product, but it's an excellent product.
It's called Defense Soap.
Defense Soap is my friend Guy Sacco.
He invented it.
He's a wrestling coach.
And his, it was a solution using healthy things like tea tree oil, eucalyptus
in the soap
that kills the bad bacteria, but does nothing to the healthy flora.
That's great.
Yes.
So that's the only soap that I use.
Chlorinated pool water does disturb normal skin flora temporarily, but in
healthy people,
the microbiome usually recovers within hours to a day or so after swimming.
So that's a problem if you swim every day then.
Yeah.
Chlorine is a broad disinfectant.
So it kills or suppresses both good and bad bacteria on the skin surface.
That's what you were saying.
Yeah.
Reducing overall microbial diversity right after swimming.
Experimental and field studies show that even short exposure can cut measured
microbiome diversity
markedly, often cited around 30 to 40%, with composition shifting away from the
usual dominant groups right after a swim.
How long disruption lasts after leaving the pool, many of the resident species
begin to recolonize from deeper skin layers.
Hair follicles and the environment and community composition tends to drift
backward towards baseline over the next 24 plus hours.
With frequent repeated swimming, daily or high volume training, the skin may be
in a more chronically perturbed state with less time for full microbiome
recovery in between exposures.
I know a lot of people have switched their pools over to saltwater pools for
this very reason.
Interesting.
I think there's a problem with saltwater pools in very high temperature areas,
though, where it's not effective enough to stop mold and all of the junk.
Right, right, right, right.
Yeah.
Do you want to see these products I brought?
I would love to see these products you brought.
Here you go.
These are for cleaning up your kitchen.
Just a note on what you just said.
What's up, Jimmy?
A note on what you just said.
A saltwater pool is still technically a chlorine pool.
Oh, still a chlorine pool.
It just makes the chlorine on site instead of pouring it in.
Oh.
Yeah.
Salt systems work.
Pool is ordinary salt, sodium chloride, dissolved in the water, usually around
2,700 to 3,400 parts per million, which is about one-tenth the salinity of the
ocean.
And close to body fluid levels, the water passes through an electrically
charged salt cell, which uses electrolysis to convert some of that salt into
active chlorine, mainly hypochlorous acid and sodium hypochlorite that sanitizes
the pool.
After chlorine does its job, it ends up back as chloride, and the cycle repeats,
so you keep generating chlorine as long as the system runs and there's enough
salt.
What's different from your standard chlorine pool, you still have free chlorine
in the water at typical pool levels, about one to four parts per million.
The difference is the source, salt generator versus liquid table chlorine, not
the sanitizer itself.
Most people find salt pools a bit gentler, the water feels softer, and
continuous low-level generation can mean fewer chloramines, less smell and
irritation if the system is sized and maintained correctly.
Interesting.
Okay, so it's still chlorine.
It's still chlorine.
So it still probably disturbs your microbiome, which sucks.
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It's sealed.
Let's open it.
It should be open.
No, it's not.
It's sealed.
It's tight.
What do we got in here?
A lot of stuff.
So, in the movie, you'll see that I came to the homes of the participants with
a big box.
About this big?
Mm-hmm.
So, this is obviously a very small part of that.
Okay.
Yep.
This is just part of your kitchen.
These are bags that are safe.
Oven, freezer, microwave.
It's called zip top.
Yeah, they're silicone.
They're made of silicone.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So, silicone's okay.
Silicone, there is food-grade silicone.
Okay.
And that is…
Like spatulas?
Yeah.
Those are okay.
And food-grade silicone is free of phthalates and bisphenols.
So, you can use that.
Okay.
Oh, this is a lot thicker.
This is like…
A lot thicker, yeah.
And so, this is reusable?
To store…
Is that the idea?
Yeah, absolutely.
And you just store…
Put your food in the fridge in that instead of in a…
So, you can buy these things?
Okay.
This company, Zip Top, do they make them specifically for that reason?
Yeah, I'm sure.
Yeah.
There's one of many companies that makes…
So, this is essentially like a Ziploc bag.
Exactly.
But it's way thicker.
Yeah.
Kind of cool.
And so, they make these larger as well?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
There are a lot of good alternatives for food storage.
You know, glass, of course, is really good.
Mm-hmm.
And ceramic is really good.
Well, this seems so much better, too, because it's not creating as much plastic
waste since
it's reusable.
Right, right, right.
Now, do you just run this through a dishwasher?
Yep.
Now, what about dishwashing solvents and detergents and stuff like that?
Ugh.
Ugh.
Yeah.
There's always problems.
Yep.
The world's filled with problems, Jamie.
The pods are probably not great.
Oh, right.
Of course, right?
Yeah.
Damn pods.
Pods, teabags, coffee pods.
Yeah.
Remember when kids were eating Tide Pods?
Mm-hmm.
It's like nature's trying to get rid of some of the dummies.
Okay.
So, this company --
I think there's two of those in there.
Yeah.
These are just little examples, you know.
Let's give this company a shout-out.
It's called Zip Top.
And I guess they make them all sizes.
Mm-hmm.
This is like sandwich size.
Yeah.
This is, I guess, a snack size.
And they make them larger, too.
Yeah.
And they seal well, you know.
Yeah.
That's another question that I had about sous vide.
There's a lot of people that cook their food in these sous vide machines.
A lot?
Really?
That's very common.
Yeah.
I thought it was kind of high, you know, kind of --
In restaurants and stuff?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I know there's consumer versions of it that I know a lot of my
friends use it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They use it for wild game, in particular, because you can slow cook.
Mm-hmm.
So, one of the things about wild game, it has a very low fat content.
Mm-hmm.
And a lot of people find that it's more tender if you slowly cook.
Mm-hmm.
So, let's say if you -- like, medium rare is like -- what is medium rare?
Like, 135 degrees, I think?
Yeah.
So, what you would do is you would take this piece of meat, and you would seal
it up in a vacuum-sealed
container, and you dunk it in this sous vide machine, and it keeps the water at
135 degrees.
You can cook it for several hours at 135, and then you sear the outside of it.
Nice.
Yeah.
And so, a lot of people like that, and it's really good for breaking down some
of the harder
stuff, like, you know, the fascia and the --
Gristle.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So, is that stuff leaking chemicals into your food?
It has to be, right?
Why?
Why?
Well, because it's in plastic.
You're getting these vacuum-sealed plastic bags that the food goes in.
Oh.
Oh.
Have you seen how sous vide works?
You have to put it in plastic?
Yes.
Have you seen how these sous vide things work?
No, then it's bad.
Then it sounds just as bad as microwaving in plastic.
That's what I'm saying.
Right.
So, what you do with sous vide is you season the food.
Yeah.
And a lot of times, you'll add, like, olive oil and things like that to the
outside of it.
But you couldn't make it out of silicone?
I would imagine you could, right?
I don't know.
Let's find that out.
Has anybody made silicone-based sous vide bags?
And do these sous vide bags leach chemicals?
I just saw a discussion on Reddit about this, but they didn't really have an
answer.
Like, they're asking if the temperatures might not be high enough.
I don't know.
Yeah.
What are the temperatures that you need -- that start these chemicals leaching
into --
Oof.
-- from the plastics into your water?
Why?
Because a lot of times, they say, "Don't leave a bottle of water in your car."
That's right.
Because your car can get really hot.
Yes.
So, however hot is your car yet, it doesn't get that hot.
It doesn't get, like, cooking hot.
So, it's like, what is --
But if the sous vide bags don't have plasticizers in them, like, if they're
made of silicone,
like, you know, food-based -- food -- what is it?
Food-grade silicone.
Is this from Reddit?
Yeah.
It's like a sous vide subreddit.
So, it says, "We use vacuum-sealed bags.
We're really going through them right now, even on our early sous vide.
I tried silicone reusable, and I wasn't happy.
I don't really recall why.
I think it was hard to get stuff in without a mess."
Okay.
That doesn't make any sense.
Just deal with the mess.
"We may switch to vacuum bags.
I love it, but oof, we use a lot of bags."
Okay.
Put this into perplexity, please.
"Do sous vide bags leach endocrine-disrupting chemicals into your food when you
cook with them?"
Let's try that.
Sweet.
We're learning things.
Yeah.
Does it have to be vacuum-sealed?
Yes.
Probably, right?
Because you don't want water leaking in there?
Yeah.
You don't want water leaking in.
I have a machine, and I use this vacuum-sealed machine.
So, if I get wild game, and then I cut it up into pieces, and then I seal it in
these vacuum-sealed
bags to freeze it.
Silicone-based sous vide bags are generally considered safe for food use and do
not significantly leach -- significantly
is a weird word -- leach harmful chemicals under typical cooking conditions.
High-quality food-grade silicone is inert, BPA-free.
See?
Yeah.
Right.
This is silicone, though.
Food-grade silicone shows minimal chemical migration, such as siloxanes,
especially compared
to plastics, can release microplastics like BPA.
This is a silicone, though.
What was the question that you asked?
How did you phrase it?
Well, you were asking about sous vide bags.
Yeah.
You write silicone-based sous vide bags.
Just let's -- not silicone-based.
Just like plastic sous vide bags.
Well, you know they're going to leak stuff.
Yeah.
Let's find out.
Regular plastic sous vide bags.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Right.
But I want to make sure that it's vacuum-sealed sous vide bags.
It should know that we're talking about sous vide bags here.
Regular plastic bags can be reasonably -- I don't like that word -- safe for
sous vide
if you use the right kind, food-grade, BPA, and phthalate-free, and rated for
hot food.
But all plastics can leak some chemicals, and the data specific to sous vide is
still limited.
Yeah.
What regular bags are safe?
Look for bags made with polyethylene and/or polypropylene that are labeled food-grade
and microwave-safe.
Is there a plastic that's microwave-safe, though?
Is that real?
Are these -- yeah, these are considered safe with food up to around 190 to 195
Fahrenheit.
Most brands' zipper bags, Ziploc Glad, are polyethylene, BPA, and dioxin-free,
and are commonly
used for sous vide at typical temperatures below 176.
Purpose-made vacuum sealer or boil-in sous vide pouches -- that's what I use --
are specifically
certified as food-grade for cooking and are the safest plastic option if you
want disposable.
So it seems like it's reasonably safe to do that.
Okay.
A review by Utah's Department of Health notes that there's a lack of studies
directly measuring
chemical leaching from sous vide bags, but recommends using FDA-compliant BPA
and phthalate-free
plastics, which are not known for estrogenic activity and are considered safe
for food contact.
Okay.
Mmm.
It says "trout."
See it says there?
Yeah.
"One trout study found detectable BPA in fish cooked."
But the problem is food -- like, here's the problem.
Freshwater lakes, if you're catching a trout in a freshwater lake, freshwater
lakes have horrible
levels of these chemicals in them.
And most people do not recommend eating food from freshwater lakes, which is so
crazy.
You think, "Oh, I'm going to go catch a fish from a lake.
This is going to be really healthy.
It's right from nature.
Uh-uh.
No, we've ruined lakes."
Yeah.
Like, what is the issue -- put this in -- what is the issue with eating fish
from freshwater
lakes in America?
What are the health issues?
Health issues, yeah.
Eating fish from freshwater lakes in America.
We've looked this up before.
It's kind of stunning how much chemicals you get from a single fish that you
would catch.
So if you catch a trout from, you know, a regular lake, you go to a lake, it
looks clean.
I can see the bottom.
Everything's fine.
No.
It's bad for you.
In fact, I know a guy who is friends with someone who does a lot of fishing
tournaments.
So he goes to these fishing tournaments, catches a lot of fish.
He eats a lot of fish, obviously.
And he got horribly, horribly sick because of heavy metal poisoning.
Isn't that terrible?
Crazy.
You think you're eating fresh fish that you've caught yourself.
It's got to be good, right?
And it's got to be bad for the fish.
Eating U.S. freshwater fish can expose you to chemical contaminants like
mercury and
PFAS.
And if eaten, undercooked or raw, parasites and some bacteria.
Most people can still eat freshwater fish safely if they follow local advisories
and avoid high-risk
groups, pregnant people, young children eating too much.
Main chemical risks: mercury, methylmercury.
Nearly all wild fish contain some mercury.
But levels of many U.S. freshwater fish can be high enough to harm a fetus or a
young child's
developing brain and nervous system if eaten often.
That's crazy.
PFAS, forever chemicals.
Many U.S. freshwater fish have measurable PFAS and, in some studies, show
widespread PFAS
plus mercury in fish tissue at levels that pose health risks for frequent
consumers.
PFAS exposure has been linked to changes in liver and kidney function,
cholesterol, immune response,
pregnancy complications, and increased risk of certain cancers.
I don't know why they haven't mentioned autoimmune.
Immune response.
Oh, they do say immune.
Immune response, yes.
Yeah, immune response.
Yeah.
This guy in Denmark studied people on the Faroe Islands, which they all eat
fish.
They catch them, you know, the Faroe Islands, and they catch them there.
And so he looked at the levels of PFAS, and then he looked at their antibody
response to
vaccination.
Oh.
Down.
Down.
And so think of what that means in, you know, like this time of COVID or
whatever.
I want to do an intervention where we take kids who are getting PFAS-free
school uniforms.
Remember I told you PFAS was in school uniforms?
Mm-hmm.
And then when they come in at age six for their first, you know, grade, they
will have just
had their booster, so then we could get their blood and see if the booster, you
know, antibody
levels were lower in the kids that had the PFAS uniforms versus the clean
uniform.
Booster for which vaccines?
Um, mumps, pertussis, the MMP, I think it's called.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
And so it's lower, it's a lower response if your body's being exposed to these
chemicals.
You're less protected, yeah.
So you would imagine even if you're not, you just lower response period to all
immune
function based on this.
Right, right.
Yeah.
What is these things?
Oh, the Lufamits.
So you can use them to scrub your sink and-
Yeah.
Or your face.
Or use them in the shower.
Yeah, or in the shower.
But you should use those for your food too.
But the sponges that you, most people use have a lot of chemicals in them.
Of course.
Makes sense.
So these are better.
Yeah, they're plastic sponges.
Right.
And you get them in hot water and you're scrubbing things and some of the stuff
probably
gets in your plates and your food and your cooking ware.
Yeah, so that's good.
All right.
What else we got here?
Bees wrap.
That's really nice stuff.
What is this stuff?
It, actually you can treat, this is some kind of paper that's been treated with
beeswax.
So nothing dirty there.
And take it out.
You'll see how nice it is.
Okay.
I love this stuff.
I have a lot of it.
Because it seals on-
So you feel the wax.
That's the wax.
Waxy paper.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
So you use that to wrap your food with.
Yeah.
And it seals on itself.
And you just rinse it out afterwards.
Oh.
Nice.
So you don't have to use saran wrap and, you know, all these.
It does seal on itself.
Isn't it nice?
Yeah.
It seems like a form fits around things.
Yeah.
You can put it on an egg or tomato or anything you want.
Well, with my friend Phillip, I guarantee he eats a lot of sushi.
He runs a sushi place.
And if you ever go to a sushi place, all the fish is wrapped in plastic.
Yeah.
They're always wrapped in plastic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then they cut it open.
Right.
And so there's exposure to all this stuff.
Right.
You should use this stuff.
Yeah.
Probably has the same level of sealing as plastic does.
Might be more expensive, though.
Yeah.
What's your health worth?
Right.
But it's also reusable, which plastic isn't.
Oh, absolutely.
Just wash it.
Yeah.
That's the thing.
Yeah.
Right.
Because plastic wrap, you don't reuse unless you're a psycho.
Right.
And it gets all over the world.
Right.
Everywhere.
I'm sure you've seen the Pacific Garbage Patch, which is crazy, right?
These are bags.
And these bags are called Wowie, W-O-W-E.
Right?
And what is this?
Yeah.
It's another food storage, you know, choice option.
Paper.
Or no.
No, it's cloth.
Cloth.
But clean cloth.
Yeah.
And so you use this?
Like for bread, it's really good.
Oh, okay.
Cookies, you know, stuff like that.
Okay.
Yeah, we use those, yeah.
And so is this all these different products listed on your website so people
can find solutions?
They're listed on the Million Marker.
There's a card there to scan the QR code and you can go to that.
But it would be nice if it was like a one.
So if you scan the QR code, is there a one-stop shop?
Yes.
Like people listening to this right now, can we send them to a website?
Yeah.
What website would that be?
I don't.
I can't remember.
Look at the card.
This one?
Tips for a Detox Journey.
So this is the QR.
So if I scan this right now, it'll take me there.
Yeah.
That's my phone.
This world that we live in.
We're not ready.
Okay.
It says the website is millionmarker.com.
Chemical glossary.
So this is the chemical glossary that's on this card.
But it doesn't, I don't know.
Not the products, right?
It doesn't say the products.
It says partners.
So there's products on that other website I told you, Unplastic Your Life.
Unplastic Your Life.
Unplastic Your Life.
Yeah.
So that's a place where people can go and see these products?
Here it is.
Here it is.
So there's three steps.
UnplasticYourLife.com, Action Hub, Protect Yourself.
And then it can tell you how to protect yourself against various things in
different rooms.
I have it by rooms, I think.
What is this one, Jamie?
This one says...
This is it.
This is the same website.
I just already went to the Action Hub.
Yeah.
Oh, so when you go to UnplasticYourLife.com, it takes you to OSP Society.
And then go to the Action Hub.
Go to the Action Hub.
Go to the Action Hub.
Yeah, it redirects to this website.
Got it.
And then go to the Action Hub, Protect Your Family, and then are the products
listed down
there?
Okay, yeah.
There it is.
Single...
Okay.
Non-plastic bags.
Non-steel cookware.
Got it.
Replace the plastic cutting boards with wood.
So I think some people use titanium, which is fine too, right?
Mm-hmm.
And then what above that?
What's above that?
Steel, single-use drinking water containers.
Never use plastics to store your food in.
Never heat plastics.
Holy.
Save your skin by selecting personal care products with natural ingredients,
such in glass
or tin packaging.
Oh, boy.
So disturbing.
Washing your clothes.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
By the way, we didn't talk about smell.
Smell.
But everything that's fragranced has phthalates.
Of course.
And, you know, like you think you're doing good if you hang that little pine
tree in your
car.
Not good?
Not good.
Yeah.
And you plug in things in the wall that are supposed to clean up your air and,
you know,
refresh your air and so on.
Not good.
There's ones that are in cars now, like certain cars.
I think Mercedes has one where you refill it and you can, it actually will
spray air freshener
through the vents.
Oof.
I don't like that.
Does Mercedes do that?
I think it's Mercedes.
Which makes sense.
You know, luxury.
I want to smell like lavender as I'm driving.
Right.
Oh, look at me in my luxurious car, smelling lavender, dying of chemical
exposure.
We asked women on this, you know, our study, we said, what do you use?
And then we said, was it fragranced?
And anything where they said that was fragranced, their body burden of phthalates
was higher.
Of course.
What about natural deodorants?
I don't know.
You have to look it up.
Yeah.
Because I use natural deodorant to try to avoid a lot of that stuff.
On the product for it on the website, it says it's a miscellaneous dangerous
good.
I think.
What?
I don't know what that is.
What?
It says miscellaneous dangerous goods.
Maybe it's when they ship it or something.
What are you looking at?
Other dangerous substances.
The interior of the vehicle will be fragranced.
It says it right there.
Oh.
This is under Mercedes, under their smell.
Aroma system, Pacific mood.
Ooh, I want a Pacific mood.
I'm living on the coast.
I'm fabulous.
And it says miscellaneous dangerous goods, other dangerous substances.
That's crazy that it's labeled that way.
The interior of the vehicle can be fragranced to suit your own individual
preference with the air balance package.
Flacon, Pacific mood, lemon and orange top notes accompanied by a blend of
spices.
Ah.
But meanwhile, it's probably not good for you.
So what is in there?
They're engineered specifically.
Does it say what?
They're also subject to rigorous testing, which means each part comes fully
certified.
In the end, you can be sure that your vehicle will perform up to its potential,
mile after mile.
Let's see what this word meant.
I don't know if you want to try this.
Whoa.
Can you say that word, doctor?
Oh, no.
I'm guessing that means miscellaneous dangerous goods, but why am I not?
Other dangerous, they're calling it dangerous?
That sounds really crazy.
Miscellaneous dangerous goods.
Like hazard warnings.
Yeah.
This is crazy.
Like why, but why would they say that?
Put it on their website, yeah.
And then you're spraying it and you're breathing it in.
It could be very well like one of those California rules where they say like
this building has got dangerous chemicals that could cause cancer in people and
it like has to be on everything.
Right.
But it's just weird that that's in the actual stuff that you breathe in and
smell.
Yeah.
I've heard another thing that's really bad for you is incense.
Probably varies with the, you know, what's in it.
I wouldn't blanket all incense.
I don't, I haven't studied that.
Well, let's put that into perplexity.
What are the, cause I know candles are bad for you.
Some.
Scented candles in particular.
Scented.
Right.
Yes.
Yes.
There's the aroma again.
Yeah.
See, one of the things that phthalates do is they cause something to hold scent.
Mm-hmm.
Retain scent.
So they're put into perfume and they're put into makeup and they're put into,
you know, the things you put on your wall.
And so, you know, you, you want something to smell for a long time, you're
going to use phthalates.
It says burning incense products, smoke and chemicals that can irritate your
lungs, worsen asthma and allergies and with heavy long-term use in poorly
ventilated spaces may increase risk for heart disease and some cancers.
You know, you think incense, you go over someone's house, they do yoga, they
eat vegan, they burn incense, they must be healthy.
Right.
Long-term health risks, repeated long-term exposure daily for years, been
associated in studies with increased risk of bronchitis, reduced lung function
in children, and chronic respiratory symptoms in workers heavily exposed to
temple incense.
God.
Epidemiological studies, mostly in Asian populations with heavy daily use, have
linked long-term incense exposure to higher rates of cardiovascular problems,
hypertension, coronary artery disease, stroke, chronic limb, what's that word?
Ischemia.
Ischemia.
Ischemia.
What's that mean?
What does ischemia mean?
That can't be good.
Sounds terrible.
What is ischemia?
Huh.
Lack of blood flow to part of a body usually because of an artery is narrowed
or blocked, severe or prolonged, the affected tissue could be damaged or die.
Oh, great.
Oh, wonderful.
So you think about incense, you think like healthy, natural people.
Oh, they burn incense.
It sounds lovely.
It sounds like they're spiritual.
Oh, incense.
I used to love incense.
I used to use it all the time.
Thought it was cool.
Made you like, you know, be more peaceful.
Incense.
Bad for you.
Everything's bad for you.
You know what's bad for you?
These straws if you trip with them.
You know, a lot of people have died.
These are metal straws.
Really?
They've died because they're on their phone and they're not paying attention.
They stub their toe and fall and this thing goes through their eyeball and they
die.
Oh, shoot.
Yeah.
Okay.
I won't recommend that.
But also, you could die just falling.
I mean, if you're falling and you're holding a steel straw, throw it to the
side.
That's my advice.
So if you want to do this little experiment of one that we're talking about.
Okay.
End of one.
Unless Jamie wants to do it too.
Jamie's end.
Look at him.
He's down.
Then Jenna or somebody on her team, if you had an hour, half an hour, I don't
know how
long it takes, call you and ask you, what did you use?
What did you use?
What did you use for this, this, this?
Right.
Right?
And then they'll recommend what to change.
Right.
I recently underwent this plasmapheresis thing.
I know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's supposed to remove a lot of that stuff from your blood, correct?
So my, but I'll tell you what, the next day, I was very tired that day, like
exhausted
that day.
But the next day afterwards, I felt like lighter.
I felt like, whoa, this is crazy.
I felt like I had more energy.
Yeah.
It was like kind of late at night.
I was like, I'm not tired at all.
This is weird.
Like I felt different, you know?
So that would be great.
Are you going to do it again?
Uh, no, I just did it.
I mean, I would do it again, but I just did it a few days ago.
I was just wondering, you know, if you measured chemicals in your urine before
you did that.
I should have done that.
And then after that.
I don't have any pee laying around from before.
No.
I don't like, but I could do it now and maybe I have very low levels and we
could
attribute that to the, because I, I haven't done the best job.
Well, like I said, I did get rid of my plastic coffee machine at home.
Uh, I did that about three or four weeks ago.
One of the things that it's done is it's made my morning coffee a lot harder to
get.
Uh, it's more of like a ritual now.
Cause I, I use a, a steel water boiler thing that heats it up to 200 degrees.
And then I have a steel French press and I grind the beans in a steel thing.
It's right.
And then I pour the beans in the French press and it's takes 15 minutes rather
than 30 seconds.
And how does it taste?
It tastes way better.
Well, I'm a big coffee drinker.
I love coffee, but I like it black.
Like I love the flavor of coffee.
I really do.
Um, and so it just tastes better.
It tastes, uh, French press, I think is the best way to drink coffee anyway.
Yeah.
And so I kind of decided like, why am I, I'm avoiding all these micro plastics.
I don't drink out of plastic or paper cups.
I do all these different things.
Why am I still using a plastic coffee machine?
I look at that thing every morning and I was like, yeah, but it's going to give
me coffee
right now.
So I pressed the button to get my coffee right now.
Then I was like, that's stupid.
So now I just, I only use something like this.
Cool.
Yeah.
So I'd be interested to see if maybe I have low levels, uh, because I certainly
feel like
my body, um, it felt refreshed.
Like I had less inflammation, you know, but that's like a two hour procedure.
It's a pain in the butt.
It's, you know, you gotta sit there for two hours.
You look like a psycho.
You know, it's like, I should have taken a photo of what I looked like while I
was doing
because I was laying there and I had like cords in this arm and cords in that
arm.
So I had blood coming out of that arm and going back into that arm.
It's really kind of nutty.
How expensive?
I don't know.
Oh.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Um, but I'm sure it's not cheap, but the, the benefits of it in terms of like
the people
that I know that have done it said it's a game changer in terms of your
recovery, market
recovery levels, uh, much better sleep.
Like if you're wearing an aura ring or a whoop strap or something along those
lines,
you get much better recovery.
And I think that's probably the case with me.
I feel pretty good.
I do a lot of stuff, you know, I do a lot of things to maximize my health.
So it's really kind of difficult to know like what's doing what.
What's doing what.
Yeah.
I just know all in all.
You know, we always say, you know, in my field, you know, do one thing at a
time.
Right.
Of course.
If you're doing science.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not, I'm not doing science.
I'm doing chaos.
Yeah.
Well, you're doing, you know, you're an experiment of one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it works.
All of it together is definitely working.
My body's pretty good.
So, you know, you were mentioning how it's going to be very hard to get these
things regulated.
And I just wanted to point out, we probably talked about this last time, but,
you know, where do these chemicals come from, these plasticizers?
And you probably know they're made from fossil fuel byproducts, yes?
Yeah.
So the forces against eliminating them are not only the manufacturers of the
plastic, but it's also the fossil fuel industry.
Right.
So that makes it extremely difficult.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's probably one of the primary factors in why this isn't discussed,
because it would reduce fossil fuel consumption, which would affect oil markets,
which would affect the economy.
It's big.
It's big.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, I mean, the rate at which plastic production is increasing is astounding,
you know?
Yes.
And no end in sight.
Well, I don't think you're going to get the government to act about this stuff.
I think this has to be done on an individual level where people are aware of it
and take steps to protect themselves and their family from these issues.
That's my cynical view of how this is going to be played out.
And I'm really hoping, I know for a fact a lot of people listened to our last
conversation and made some lifestyle changes.
I'm really hoping that now, with this follow-up visit, more and more people
will be aware of it.
And watching the movie.
Yes.
And watching the movie.
And the movie's called, what's it called again?
The Plastic Detox.
The Plastic Detox.
The Plastic Detox.
Yeah.
And where is this movie available?
In your house.
Everything?
Right.
But is it available on Amazon, Netflix?
Netflix.
It's Netflix.
Netflix, yeah.
Okay.
Watch on Netflix.
Netflix is great.
There's so many great documentaries on Netflix.
We have plastics in our homes.
Six couples embark on a plastic detox within their homes.
It changes their families forever.
The Plastic Detox explains what microplastics and their chemicals are doing to
our health and how we can take matters into our own hands.
From hormone disruption that's fueling a worldwide fertility crisis to growing
rates of cancer and early heart attack and stroke.
This powerful documentary reveals the shocking science behind plastics' impact
on human life.
Do you want to see a little trailer?
Sure.
Let's watch a little trailer.
Put your headphones on.
Well, you already know what it says.
I'll listen.
Plastic leaches a crap ton of chemicals.
Even the smallest levels of exposure can have profound effects.
Fertility worldwide is going down.
There you are.
And it is tightly linked to chemicals that are commonly used in plastic.
We have been trying to get pregnant for over 10 years now.
22 months.
Two and a half years?
Say what you always call yourself.
Ah, I say, you know, Julie, I'm not a human dildo.
This is a three-month intervention where we recruited six couples who have unexplained
infertility.
We look at measures of semen quality.
The cutoff for fertile is about 40.
You're technically subfertile, infertile, so that's kind of scary, right?
Yes.
The question is, if we lower people's exposure to chemicals that are in plastic,
can we change their fertility?
These chemicals not only affect your fertility, they also have other health
consequences.
These chemicals can contribute to early heart attacks and stroke, autism, as
well as obesogens.
Learning more about plastics, it's opening my eyes to how much bigger it is.
Many people think the government takes care of us, but very few chemicals are
actually banned from personal care products, and over 1,100 are banned in the
EU.
To have a child, I believe it is the fundamental human right.
I think you'd be the best mom ever, and I really want to see that for you.
Plastic doesn't have to come from a toxic petroleum-based material.
We can learn to do it other ways.
It can change, and you can help with the change.
That's another good point that he just said right there, that plastic doesn't
have to come from petroleum-based materials.
No.
And most people aren't aware of that, but you can make plastic out of plant
compounds.
Yes.
Like, and it's biodegradable.
Yes.
Which is like, they make a hemp plastic.
Right.
Potatoes.
Yeah.
Potatoes.
Yeah.
And probably a bunch of other stuff too, right?
That you can make plastic out of that doesn't have these effects.
Right.
It would be really nice if we moved in that direction, wouldn't it?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
The plant-based plastics have the cost of raising the plants, of course.
There's that added cost.
Right.
But does that even compare to the cost of pulling oil out of the ground and refining
it?
Right.
And then turning it into plastic through some horrific process?
Yeah.
That turns the rivers blue?
Or whatever it does.
And God knows what it does.
The color it turns us.
No.
Just kidding.
Right.
Is there a list of garments that people shouldn't wear?
Are you aware of that?
The plastic leaching garments?
Well, the only specific ones I know are, because people have told me about them,
are the sports
uniforms, team uniforms.
Because they have a coating on them?
Yeah.
Is it to make them more durable, is that the idea?
Yeah.
And probably this book, To Die For, will have more information.
And I have it, and I'm just so busy with this right now, but I'm going to read
it.
And then sports uniforms, kids' uniforms, airline personnel uniforms.
I think uniforms.
Firefighters.
Firefighters are big, big exposure to these chemicals too.
Right.
Yeah.
Because they wear those waterproof.
Yeah.
Anything with it.
Yeah, that's right.
Anything that's waterproof, stain-proofed, just like your Teflon pants, you
know, barrier.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
But I don't know any particular brands.
So I would imagine like nylon tracksuits and all those different things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That'd be terrible for you.
So the worst offenders.
I mean, customers could look for, when they buy these things, they could look
for PFAS-free.
Just like now people know to look for BPA-free or, you know, if they could look
at PFAS-free,
then they would be avoiding a lot of this.
So go back to the top, please.
It says the worst offenders are synthetic, plastic-heavy garments that are
fuzzy, coated,
or very tight to the skin, especially polyester fleece, recycled polyester,
fast fashion,
and PFAS-coated water, stain repellent, outerwear, and activewear.
Polyester fleece jackets, blankets, loungewear, extremely high microfiber
shedding.
One study found that polyester fleece shedding orders of magnitude more fibers
per wash than
other knits, which estimates around 110,000 fibers per garment per wash.
This is both bad for environmental plastic pollution and for indoor dust and
air.
Oy.
Recycled polyester, fast fashion, like leggings, tees, dresses, and sportswear.
New testing shows recycled polyester garments shed more and finer microfibers
than virgin polyester.
Interesting.
You think recycled.
Oh, I'm recycling.
I'm a good person.
Yeah.
No.
You're killing yourself.
Increased particle numbers and potential toxicity.
These items are often cheaply made, shed heavily in washing, and frequently use
intense dyes and finishes.
Hot pink.
Tight synthetic sportswear and underwear.
Yikes.
These are worn for long periods directly against sweaty skin and mucous membranes,
increasing
opportunity for contact with microplastics and additives like antimony, phthalates,
and PFAS finishes.
Cheap synthetic performance or wrinkle-free fashion.
Stain resistant, easy care, anti-odor, and heavy print coating garments are
more likely to use chemical finishes that can off-gas or leach on top of the
base synthetic fiber issues.
Hooey.
Lower concern choices.
Okay.
Not perfect, but generally less problematic for leaching and microplastic
shedding.
Undyed or lightly dyed natural fibers like cotton, linen, wool, hemp, silk,
without stain resistant or wrinkle-free finishes.
Simple weaves, knits, rather than fluffy or brushed surfaces, which shed less.
PFAS-free rain gear and outdoor clothing.
Brands now often as—what rain gear is PFAS-free?
That's interesting because I've always thought that it has to be coded.
Yeah.
Right.
Whew.
A lot of work.
A lot of work, huh?
What has been the response to your—first of all, you're releasing your first
book,
and then coming on podcasts and talking about this thing.
Has it been surprising to you?
Like, what has it been like?
It has been kind of surprising how much interest there is and how much, you
know, people are taking this up.
And what's great is there are a lot of nonprofits that are in the space that
are getting out these messages.
So it's not just me, you know, many, many nonprofits.
And then there's the, you know, there's the Plastics Treaty, which is worldwide.
It didn't pass, but hopefully it will come back and maybe next time.
And then there's the work that the EU is doing, which is miles ahead of us.
For example, I think I might have said this before, but just—so in Europe,
you—if you're going to put a new chemical into commerce, you have to—it has
to pass certain tests to be safe.
Right.
Not here.
Right.
Not here.
Right.
So we're—it's—the testing is on you and me and everyone listening.
And, I mean, we haven't really raised our hand and volunteered for that.
Well, I mean, I don't want this to happen, but I think maybe what has to happen
is these companies have to get in trouble, you know?
Well, some of them have.
You know, there are lawsuits and—
Are there lawsuits against like outerwear, clothing, like yoga pants?
I don't know.
I don't know, but—
Because yoga pants are a problem, right?
Hmm?
Yoga pants.
Yes.
Yeah, those tight nylon things that a lot of the gals wear to—
Yeah.
I don't know where the lawsuits are.
I might at some point get involved in that, but at this point, I don't know.
But I know there are lawsuits and that they can be an effective way to push
back.
And, by the way, you said we wouldn't get a federal law, and I think that's not
for a long time.
But states can do it.
California, for example, is doing lots of good stuff on that.
What are they doing about it?
I can't name you the laws, but I know they're very active.
The—Bonta, Ron Bonta, he's a district attorney, attorney general of the state
of California.
He's very active.
And so the states that have active, you know, pushback, able to get laws passed,
that kind
of sets the tone for, you know, for what's possible.
But I don't see us getting federal pushback very soon.
No.
It seems like industry controls the federal government more than the health and
safety concerns of the people.
Right.
Which is very disturbing, but not too surprising when you consider a lot of the
other things
that are allowed in this country that aren't allowed in other countries.
Right.
Like, when you show that list of the chemicals that are illegal in the EU, that
are illegal in
America, that's disturbing.
Like, we're supposed to be number one.
We're number one.
We're number one in chemicals.
Number one in chemicals.
Yeah.
Probably.
Probably.
Probably.
The response when you were on this podcast was pretty shocking for me.
So many people reached out to me.
A lot of my friends that watched the episode were like, "I can't believe this."
Do you know how many?
Oh, I have no idea.
It was five years ago.
But quite a few of my friends that, you know, don't reach out with every
episode, reached
out and said, "That is just nuts.
Like, I can't believe this."
And especially people with children.
Yeah.
And they're concerned about the development of their children or people who are
pregnant,
who are concerned with the intake of these chemicals while they're pregnant,
which has
a radical effect on the child's development and alligator depenuses.
Well, if your friends are listening now, I can tell them that it hasn't changed
much.
It hasn't improved much.
And we have to do a lot more, both personally and, you know, pushing back...
I hate to say it, but I think, like I said, I don't think the government's
going to do anything.
I think it's got to be up to individuals to make choices.
And I'm really hoping your documentary has another big impact.
One of the beautiful things about Netflix is that even though things get
promoted on Netflix,
whenever anything...so many people have Netflix that whenever anything's good,
a lot of people
just start sharing it and start talking about it and posting about it on social
media.
And then next thing, the conversation starts happening and starts raising
awareness.
And I really do hope you're going to go on a bunch of other podcasts as well
and talk about this.
Thank you.
And there are showings and Netflix, you know, encourages that.
And I'm going actually all over the world talking at showings.
Now the schedule is like crazy.
Do you ever think like how crazy it is that you're this one person that's
sounding the alarm?
Because you kind of are the most public face of this problem.
That is a little crazy to me, especially given where I've come from, but...
What if you didn't exist?
This is the question.
Oh, there are many, many people pushing back.
Many, many people pushing back.
Right, but I don't know if they're doing it as publicly as you are.
And certainly not.
I mean, they haven't been on this podcast.
There are many that are.
I, you know, I feel lucky that I've had this, like speaking to you and your
followers and other podcasts.
And then having the opportunity to have designed this intervention and have
worked with Louie and others on the film team to put this forward.
It's a very big thing.
And, you know, the film costs a lot of money.
And we've had worldwide support for putting this out.
So there's a lot of support behind the pushback.
And we just have to get everybody on board and just say, no, I'm not going to
use that stuff.
Yeah, that's really what has to happen.
The conversation has to increase.
The volume has to increase.
More people have to share it and talk about it.
And more people have to have you on.
And, you know, we just have to sound the alarm.
It's kind of crazy that five years later nothing's changed because, like I said,
it shook up a lot of people that I'm friends with.
But I didn't hear it from any other places.
Yeah.
I mean, I didn't see you on.
Did you do any other podcasts after you did mine?
Yeah, I did many.
You know Huberman?
Sure.
Very well.
He's great.
Yeah, he's great.
There are I can't I can't remember them.
But yes, a lot of podcasts, but hopefully now more.
I do have more coming up.
My schedule is really kind of crazy.
One other thing that's great is the documentary is easily digestible.
Yes.
It's on Netflix.
Everything's on Netflix.
You sit down.
Okay, let's watch.
And then you go, oh, my God.
And then there's all these, you know, places to go at the end of it to learn
more if people want to do that.
I would love to see it viewed by influencers, not in the typical, you know,
social media sense, but people like religious leaders, you know, leaders who
could be won over, you know, if you have any ideas, you know, but I thought
about having, you know, the Pope.
I mean, it sounds really wild, but you know, a lot of people get their
information.
Where do people get their information?
Like from their religious leaders, from their peers, from their doctors.
By the way, none of this is taught in medical school.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
Right there.
Well, neither is nutrition.
Right.
Yeah.
So, you know, somebody's got to spend a lot of time getting that curriculum
changed, right?
Actually, you have to get the test changed because the teaching is to the test.
Right.
So, if we could get this stuff on the test, there would be more doctors
learning this, but they don't get it.
They don't get it.
They learn about lead.
That's about all.
Well, there's not a lot of incentive to teach this stuff.
Right.
That's part of the problems that especially these petrochemical companies and
the, you know,
the use of these things is going to affect so many different industries because
if you cut
them out and they know, I mean, how much of an impact is that going to have on
the economy?
If everybody just stopped using all of these chemicals, all the, you know, Lululemon
brands
and I don't know, single them out, but all these different companies, if they
all just went
under tomorrow, it'd be a giant problem if everybody just stopped using these
things.
Maybe for a little while, but then they'd be healthier.
Well, the people would be healthier, but the companies would go under.
Oh, the companies will not be healthier.
Yeah.
Unless they make the switch.
But what could they do to make the switch?
Like if you're a company.
Well, you were saying like plant-based plastics.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, do they make plant-based plastic clothing?
Does anybody do that?
Like plant-based plastic leggings?
Let's find that out.
Does anybody make plant-based plastic?
Used in clothing.
Yeah.
What are, what is the primary chemicals that come out and is it PFAS?
PFAS.
Yeah.
PFAS free leggings.
Because I would imagine, especially if you're not wearing underwear and you're
wearing those
kind of yoga tights, that would just get in there, right?
Well, speaking of that, they're looking for, they want them to be squat proof
in quotes.
So they're not see-through.
See-through.
Squat proof?
Yeah.
If there's girls wearing leggings, you know, they're going to be doing a lot of
squats at
the gym probably or something.
Squat proof.
So they don't want people to be watching them a lot.
But there are some.
I don't know what that means.
Watching them a lot?
Yeah, you know.
Dude.
Oh, see-through.
Yeah, yeah.
They're see-through.
But that's a weird way to say.
Squat proof sounds to me like you can't do squats in them.
Also probably ripping, I would imagine too.
I think it's just a bad phrase.
You know, like when you do a squat or downward facing dog, the fabric stretches
out.
You can see some undies through the fabric.
This is someone tested nine different kinds of them.
So there's a few different brands.
Now this isn't even really-
Oh, the bioplastic.
Go back.
There.
Yeah, bioplastic.
Three primary categories of non-toxic workout clothes.
All natural or almost all natural.
For example, 100% organic cotton or 90% cotton, 10% spandex.
Most semi-synthetic fabric, for instance, Tencel fabric, plant-based plastic,
which is a plastic
source from something like castor bean oil instead of fossil fuels.
Hmm.
In general, I'm not a huge fan of plant-based bioplastics.
They are advertised as plastic-free alternatives, but they're still plastic.
And some research shows that they're not truly non-toxic.
I know.
It's disappointing, it says.
Here's the honest-to-god truth.
When it comes to performance, stretchiness, compression, durability, the plant-based
plastics
do tend to perform the best.
Huh.
Yeah.
Followed by the semi-synthetics, followed by the all-now.
I think they mean perform the best in terms-
Out of the three, I think.
Not better.
But in terms of stretchiness, oh, the other three.
A lot of product categories were non-toxic options, performs just as well as a
synthetic option,
like shampoo, to give you one example.
It's not really as straightforward with leggings.
At the end of the day, you're going to have to decide for yourself what kind of
material you prefer.
It will largely depend on things like what type of workouts you do, how you
like your leggings to feel, where you work out, and more.
Hmm.
Okay.
My reviews on these nine almost plastic-free non-toxic leggings.
All right.
Let's get to it.
It says, what are the ones?
So, Mate.
It's a company called Mate.
Overall review, they're the best middle ground leggings.
They're not super high performance.
I don't know what that means.
But they're made from healthier materials, and they're very comfortable.
They're great for lower impact workouts, just for general everyday wearing.
Squat test passed, but had to size up.
So, let's find what the best one is.
Do they have the best one?
I don't.
So, Mate is one of them.
What are the other ones?
Pangaea.
Overall review.
I find myself reaching for these leggings more often than any of the others
when it comes to hardcore workouts.
Compressive nature of them makes me feel very held in when I'm jumping around.
They have great stretch.
Squat test passed.
Material blend.
92% polyamide bio-based EVO.
Bio-based content.
80%, 8% part bio-based Criora elastane.
30% bio-based content.
We'll make some different.
Closest to conventional synthetics in terms of fit, feel, stretch, and
compression.
Okay.
Well, so this website is thefittery.com/plastic-free non-toxic workout leggings.
Go check it out for yourself.
So, there's some options that are out there.
Hopefully, we'll give those companies a boost and more people will wear them.
Okay.
Anything else before we get going?
Think we covered it all?
I think so.
I think we sounded the alarm.
I think we tried again anyway.
Yeah.
We did something.
Yeah.
Like I said, I think it's just a volume thing.
More and more of these conversations have to take place so that in, you know,
the general zeitgeist, more people are aware of it.
And it's just increased awareness and just makes it where, you know, more
people are making better choices.
And your platform is so huge that I'm really encouraged to have the opportunity
to talk about this with you and happy to come back.
Well, I'd be happy to have you back.
I loved you the first time.
You're great the second time as well.
And for everybody, one more time, the Plastic Detox.
That's the name of the documentary.
It's available right now on Netflix.
Go check it out and fix your life, kids.
All right.
Thank you.
I really appreciate it.
It was really fun.
Thank you.
Yeah.
It was great.
And I'm really so happy that you're out there.
Doing this very important work.
I wouldn't know about it.
And I think a lot of other people wouldn't either.
So thank you.
So pee in the cup.
I will pee in the cup.
I promise you.
I promise you I'll pee in the cup, but I'll send it.
And then if you want to do the next steps, let me know.
I will do the next steps as well.
You want to?
Sure.
So when you're ready to have another kit.
Talk to that microphone so people know what you're saying.
Yeah.
Right.
So when you're ready to have another test kit, or you can go to Million Marker
and just order one.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's a hundred bucks.
All right.
We'll do it.
But we'll send it for nothing if you want.
Just let me know.
I'll give you the hundred bucks.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Appreciate it.
Bye everybody.