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Luke Grimes is an actor and musician who stars as Kayce Dutton in the “Yellowstone” spin-off series “Marshals,” airing Sundays at 8 PM Pacific / 7 PM Central on CBS and available to stream on Paramount+. His new album, “Red Bird,” will be released on April 3. www.cbs.com/shows/marshals www.youtube.com/@LukeGrimes www.lukegrimesmusic.com
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Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
This is a real being mentioned.
Is it?
Yeah, I've been listening to the show for years.
Well, I've been watching your show for years.
Yeah.
Are we rolling, Jamie?
All right, beautiful.
I love your fucking show.
It's great.
Oh, thanks, man.
It's really awesome, man.
Well, I haven't watched Marshalls yet.
Is it out now?
It is.
When did it come out?
March 1st.
Oh, okay.
So they just had the second episode air.
I like to binge, man.
Yeah, yeah.
I like to wait a little bit.
Stay offline.
I like to sit down and binge them.
For sure.
Yeah, but Yellowstone's fucking awesome.
It's such a great show.
Did you have any idea it was going to be what it is?
Not, no.
I don't think anybody did.
I thought it would find an audience for sure.
I mean, Taylor was really, you know, hot at the time.
He'd been nominated for Oscars.
And I was kind of, like, surprised he was even writing a television show.
He was just, like, so hot in the film business.
How the fuck does that guy even sleep?
I don't know, man.
Where does he have the time?
Every time I look in the news or there's a new show that he's doing, a new
thing he's doing,
it's like, how are you doing all this?
It's impressive, you know?
It's insane.
There's a lot of people I've worked with where they do things that are
impressive, but his is impossible.
Right.
You know, like, someone would be like, could you direct a movie as good as Unforgiven?
I'm like, maybe.
Maybe if I tried real hard, but, like, could you write ten television shows
single-handedly?
No.
No way.
Not possible.
He directed Unforgiven?
No, I'm just saying, like, people that I look up to that I'm impressed by.
It's like, his is a different level.
Right.
His is, like, it's, like, impossible.
Who did direct Unforgiven?
Clint Eastwood.
That's the fucking greatest Western movie of all time.
It is.
It's the best.
It's, like, you know what it was like to me?
It was, like, he was making up for all the silly Westerns and was, like, let me
show you what it was probably really like.
Yeah.
What it was really like when a man was about to get shot?
What it was really like when a dude was a stone-cold killer?
Yeah.
What was it really, like, the hardships of living back then?
Yeah, and it's interesting, too, because he starts out kind of a loser.
Yeah.
Those first, you know, like, the first three quarters of the movie, he's this
sort of timid guy who's lost his power, you know?
And then he takes that one sip of whiskey, and it's all over for everybody else.
It's a crazy premise.
It's such a good movie, man.
It's such a good fucking movie, man.
But, yeah, Taylor is a real freak, and there's not a lot of humans like him.
And his background story is so interesting, you know?
Like, he was just kind of scrambling around until he was almost, like, 40.
Yeah, it's like a real-life Rocky story or something, like rags to riches, the
whole thing.
I know, man.
It's just, I just don't, I guess that's why he has so much ambition, because he
knows what it's like to be poor.
Right.
You know?
He knows what it's like to, like, barely make it.
Right.
Then all of a sudden, he's got a kid on the way, and he's like, oh, shit, I
gotta buckle down and really get moving.
And he kept his foot on the gas.
Absolutely.
Do you guys keep in touch?
Yeah.
His buddies?
Yeah, yeah, all the time.
I love Taylor, man.
I love him.
He's an awesome dude.
I just worry about him.
I'm like, you know, you do so much.
Like, don't have a fucking heart attack, man.
Don't go crazy.
You know what's weird is he does, he does, like, have a good time, too.
It's not like he doesn't hang out with his family or friends or, you know, that's
the craziest thing to me is, like, the guy has a really fun life and is able to
do all that.
I guess, like, the moral of the story is, you know, I guess, like, I guess,
like, the moral of the story is don't play golf.
That'll take up all your time.
No shit, man.
Tell that to Jamie.
If I can get out once a week, it's great.
Yeah, he's an addict.
Jamie's an addict.
He's got a simulator back there.
He's always whacking golf balls.
Yeah, all my friends are trying to get me to play.
I'm like, I'm not doing it, man.
That's a six-hour commitment.
Fuck off.
Oh, man.
The amount of time it takes to get good enough that it's not the worst thing
ever is too much time.
Right.
And my problem is I'm an addict.
Like, when I start doing things, I just start, like, okay, I need to play in
the PGA.
I start going crazy.
I'll start getting lessons.
Fuck that.
Yeah, don't do it.
We need your show, man.
We need you.
Well, I'm never doing it.
We can do both.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
We can try it.
We can try it.
Try it out.
No, I know.
All my friends who play fucking love it.
Ron White and Tony Hinchcliffe, they go out every day.
It's like, it's too much, man.
I can't do it.
Yeah.
Yeah, you can't play golf and do what Taylor's doing.
That's for damn sure.
No way.
No.
How the fuck is Trump doing it?
Like, he's in the middle of everything.
He's always playing golf.
But that's sort of the criticism, right?
Like, he's playing too much golf and not running the country enough.
But don't they say that about every president?
Yeah.
Like, I think it's almost like a prerequisite to be president.
You have to play golf.
Yeah.
You know, don't they all do it?
I guess so.
It's like one of those weird businessmen things.
Like, they make deals out there.
They have a couple of cocktails.
They talk a little shit.
Right.
Do a bump.
Not my thing.
Make some deals.
I just don't, I don't know.
Something about being on like a manicured lawn.
Yeah.
I don't, I don't know.
I don't want to be out in the middle of nowhere.
I'm sure I'd love it.
I'm sure.
Which is why I don't do it.
But I play pool.
And I'm addicted to pool.
Like, I play pool all the time.
It's a real problem.
When I lived in New York, I was playing like eight hours a day.
Yeah.
I was playing in tournaments.
I was traveling around.
It was like, I can't, I can't get another thing like that in my life.
Are you done playing pool?
No, I play all the time.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
But you could play pool for like a couple of hours and stop.
Maybe I'll try that.
Pool's fun.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like real pool, like tournament pool, you know, like competitive, like real
tournament pool.
It's legit.
But it's like, it's another thing.
It'll get in your blood.
And then you'll be thinking about it all the time and watching videos and
taking lessons.
I'm ready for something though.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Not golf.
Pool sounds like.
Well, you have music and you have acting.
Like you said, that's got to be kind of hard to manage.
Yeah.
It's proving pretty difficult.
And I have an 18 month old.
Oh, that's it.
In the mix.
Yeah.
So no sleep.
Yeah.
We're getting there.
I, you know, the music thing is sort of, it's kind of nice because there's not
a lot
of pressure on it.
You know, for me, I have a day job.
You know, I have this thing that supports my family.
And the music I can do to like my passion level, you know, and I, and I wouldn't
do it to
the point where I'm like away from my family too much, you know, so I can, I
like making
the music touring is kind of hard and it's, and it's also new for me.
So learning how to do that at 40 was a kind of interesting, you know, I feel
like in my twenties,
that would have been the most fun ever.
Yeah.
Sleeping on a bus with 12 dudes and just going from city to city and, you know,
drinking
backstage and playing country music.
That would have been a blast, but I'm, you know, too old for, to do that the
right way.
Yeah.
When you tour, do you go out or do you do like a weekend and then come back?
Or do you, when you're on a full blown tour, the, the, the way that it
financially works
the best is to just stay kind of going.
So you're doing like three shows like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, cause you've
got the bus rented,
you've got all the equipment rented, you got the guys, you know, on salary.
So you just have to keep going.
It's actually really hard to, for it to pencil out when you're just doing a
show here and
there.
Right.
Yeah.
That's standup comedy so much easier in that regard.
I've only done one standup comedy tour tour.
I did it with Charlie Murphy and John Heffron.
We, we did this Bud Light Maxim tour back in 2007 and we did like 22 dates in a
month.
And so it was like, I'd wake up and I wouldn't know where I was.
I'd look at the ceiling.
I'm like, where the fuck am I?
I don't, I would have to think, uh, Columbus, you know, I'd have to like go
through my head
and figure out where I am when I woke up.
Was there ever like a period of stage fright when you started doing standup?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The first day I was more afraid the first time I got on stage than I was the
first time
I fought.
It was nuts.
Yeah.
I was like, why am I so nervous?
I was like, I was thinking about chickening out.
I was thinking about not doing it.
I do that every time I play a music show.
I'm like, can I just call it off?
Do you still get stage fright right now?
Really bad.
Really?
Well, that's the thing, man.
I, I, I'd always played music and when I was playing in bands and playing out,
I was the
drummer.
Oh.
So, but I always wrote songs and stuff, but I never thought I had never had
ambition around
like, I want to be the guy in front of the microphone.
That was never, you know, the plan.
And then, you know, to be able to make an album, which I wanted to do, you have
to go stand
in front of the microphone.
And that's the hard part for me.
I love being in the studio.
I love writing the songs.
I love making the music, recording the music, but there's something about
knowing that all
these people have shown up and bought a ticket to see you.
And you're like, all of a sudden this thing starts happening in me where like,
they bought
a ticket, imposter syndrome.
You're not good enough for them to have spent their money.
And you know, it's just this whole thing.
And it's like, dude, shut up.
I know it's going to be okay, but it doesn't matter.
Every time I still get a little bit of the, you know.
I think everybody who's sane gets imposter syndrome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Everybody that I've talked to that's sane, it's like the really kooky ones.
Like, I don't think Kanye's ever gotten imposter syndrome.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like, I'm going to be, also, he's a genius.
But it's like the ones who were sane, it doesn't make any sense.
Like, none of it makes any sense.
Yeah.
Well, I get it in droves and way more for the music than the acting.
But it's, again, I've been acting in film and TV for over 20 years now.
When did you first get on stage to sing?
How old were you?
The very first show I played, I was 39.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, I had done karaoke before.
Right?
But, you know, it kind of came about in the weirdest way.
I literally was on set one day and get a call out of the blue from this manager,
this music
manager, Matt Graham, who's a great manager and a really good friend of mine.
But he called and said, hey, I know you don't know who I am, but I know that
you're a musician
and, you know, I love Yellowstone.
I love you in that show.
Is that something that you would want to take seriously?
And I was like, like, what does that mean?
He's like, I bet I could get you a record deal.
And I was like, no, man.
That's, no, I don't want to do that.
And we talked for two years.
And over the course of the two years, I really started to trust him.
He sort of, like, explained to me what, you know, what would be required.
And long story short, my father passed away somewhere in there.
And sort of one of the last things he sort of conveyed to me was like, if there's
anything
you want to do while you're here, do it, you know.
And something about that moment, I was like, I'm just going to fucking do it.
You know, I don't care.
What's the worst thing that can happen?
And I'm another actor who made a goofy album.
Right.
So what?
I got to do it, you know.
So I did.
And then immediately, it's like, well, now you have to go tour it.
Otherwise, you know, they're not going to put up the money for you to make
these things
if you don't go sell it, you know.
So the tour is sort of to get the music out there and get people buying it.
And so, yeah, first show, it was in Billings, Montana for, I think it was 1,200
people.
Whoa.
This place called, I think it was Pub Station.
What was that like first time, dude?
I blacked out.
Like, not drinking.
Like, I just blacked out on nerves, dude.
Like, you know, it started, my knees were shaking, my hands were shaking.
This is before I knew about, like, beta blockers or anything like that.
And I, the show was over and I was like, how was, was that okay?
How, how'd that go?
And everyone was like, it was good.
You know, it was good.
It was fine.
The fourth show I ever played was Stagecoach.
Whoa.
Yeah.
That's nuts.
It was crazy.
I mean, it was earlier in the day.
It's not like I had, you know, 100,000 people out there.
But still, that's a big stage.
That's a big stage.
And, yeah.
So, but, you know, little by little it got somewhat better.
I don't black out anymore.
I kind of, I know where I'm at and I'm there.
But it's still something I deal with.
Oliver Anthony, the first show he ever played live in front of people was like
20,000 people.
That's insane.
It's so nuts.
That's insane.
Wasn't it like that?
It was huge, right?
It was like, it was some, it was a gigantic crowd.
I don't think I'm exaggerating.
Because he got really famous before he ever went on tour.
That one song, Richmond, North of Richmond.
That song, like, instantly made him famous.
He rode a rocket, dude.
That rarely happens.
There's, you know, few people know that feeling.
I can't imagine.
But he, he was freaking out.
Like, I became friends with him, like, right when it was happening.
Because he was, like, a little lost.
And he said a bunch of people, I go, let's talk.
So we got on the phone.
Like, it was before he had, you know, he'd gotten a ton of record deals.
And all these different people were saying, you know, hey, sign with me.
We'll give you X amount of money in advance.
I go, don't sign nothing.
And he was like, everybody's telling me that I got to act, strike while the
iron's caught.
I go, no, no, no, no, no.
I go, dude, you got talent.
I go, you got real talent.
You're always going to have talent.
It's just a matter of putting in the work and you're going to be huge.
You don't need these people.
These people are all vampires.
They're all just trying to suck on your neck.
Don't let them.
Don't let them.
Thank God he listened.
Because he was getting offers like $7 million and shit.
And he was a fucking heavy equipment salesman, you know?
And so then all of a sudden, he's like, what the fuck is going on?
One song with him and a guitar just standing in a field.
And that's all it took.
That's amazing.
I mean, it's how it should be, right?
I have the complete opposite story.
My story's not cool at all.
I'm like, I'm a successful actor and I got a record deal for no reason.
Yeah, but you had a record deal because you wanted to do it because you're
interested in that too.
You can do anything you want to do.
Just because you're a successful actor doesn't mean you can't do it.
Right, but I think a lot of the thing with music is the story of the person.
So I knew going in, I don't have the best story.
I do come from nothing and I did work my ass off to become an actor and all
that.
But my way into the music was a little wonky.
Well, sometimes that's good because it makes you work harder to prove to people
that you're legit.
Yeah, yeah.
Because you have this thing over your head where they're like, fuck that pretty
boy, motherfucker.
TV star, motherfucker.
Fuck that dude.
Fuck Casey Dutton.
There we go.
So the music's going to have to be good enough.
Yeah.
That's just sort of the thing.
That's all it is.
It just will force you to work harder.
But it's just, everybody's story's different.
That's what makes it fun.
If everybody had the same story, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, you're kind of the king of following your passion, right?
You've done that.
Yeah, I've been super lucky, you know?
I'm just lucky that there's a job for all these things I like, you know?
There wasn't.
Well, there wasn't for this one.
This one, there was other people doing it already, but it wasn't a job for the
longest time.
It's kind of a fun story that me and my wife always joke around about because,
like, one time she was taking the kid.
We were all supposed to go to Disneyland, but I had to do this podcast.
I'm like, she was like, you don't have to do it.
I go, but I do.
I do it every week.
But it wasn't really making any money back then.
But I was like, I promised people it would be out.
Like, I got to do it.
And now she's like, thank God you didn't listen to me.
It's just, I mean, I got lucky.
I came in right at the right time.
There was only a few people doing it back then, and I just did it for fun.
I just thought that would be fun to do.
And then all of a sudden it became a job.
Yeah, and with the UFC stuff, too.
Yeah, that, too.
That was fun, too.
Did you think that would become what it became?
No.
When I first started doing it was in 1997, and it was in a high school auditorium
in Dothan, Alabama.
And we had to take a propeller plane to get there.
And it was banned from cable, so you could only watch it on DirecTV.
This was UFC 12.
Wow.
And there was no one in the audience, and no one was watching it.
And I was already on a TV show.
It was on news radio.
And the people on news radio, like the actors and the producers, they were like,
what are you doing?
You're flying to go do cage fighting?
It was almost like I was doing porn.
You know, it's like fucking snuff films or something.
It's like, dude, you're going to ruin your life doing this.
I was like, I don't know what you guys are talking about.
This is what I've always wanted to see.
I've always wanted to see all the best martial artists of different styles get
together.
Nobody ever did it.
These guys are doing it.
I'm going to go.
Yeah.
I remember renting the, like, first few from Blockbuster.
Yeah.
Oh, it was the best.
It was like Bloodsport back then.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, it changed my life.
I got UFC 2 was the first one.
The first one wasn't available.
You had to get 2 was the only one.
And it was on VHS tape.
And I had a buddy of mine who told me about it.
He's like, dude, you got to see this thing, man.
He goes, they got these guys.
They're fighting in a cage.
And this one dude's just choking everybody.
And he's wearing a gi.
I was like, really?
What is it?
And then I watched it.
I was like, holy shit.
Yeah.
I was hooked, like, right away.
I was like, they fucking did it.
They actually did it.
Because, like, when I was a kid, everybody thought that what they were.
If you did karate, you thought karate was the best.
If you thought judo, you thought judo was the best.
And nobody really knew what was the most effective martial art.
Because nobody had ever put together anything like the UFC.
Right.
So once it happened, I mean, it was just such a huge part of my life.
I was like, I'm not going to not do this just because it's bad for my acting
career.
I'm like, if my acting career goes away, I don't, you know, whatever.
I'm only doing this for money anyway.
So I was like, I'll just figure it out.
You were the only person in L.A. with that mentality, by the way.
That really served you well.
Well, I wasn't supposed to be in L.A.
You know, I mean, I only came to L.A. for money.
And I would have moved back.
I was living in New York and I did a show called Hardball and that got canceled.
And the only reason why I stayed is because I got a lease on an apartment.
I was fully ready to get out of there.
I was like, I got to get the fuck out of this place.
I hated it.
I hated being around actors.
I hated being around producers and casting agents.
I was like, these people are so fake.
I was used to being around fighters and comedians and pool players, like the
rawest, funniest, like outcasts of society.
Like, those were my people.
I was used to, like, cracking jokes with friends and everybody was, like, busting
on each other.
And everybody had a great sense of humor, just silly weirdos.
And then all of a sudden I'm around these people that, like, all had these,
like, predetermined things that they thought they should say so they would say
them, you know, and everybody had, like, it was all groupthink.
It was like, oh, this is fucking horrible.
Yeah, I always say that felt like when I lived in L.A.
I lived in L.A. for 16 years and, you know, I don't want to complain about it.
It was obviously good to me.
Like, it, you know, helped my life quite a bit.
But it always felt like everybody was trying to become the same person.
Yeah.
But they don't know who that person is.
I'm like, can you just tell me who the person is so I can, you know what I mean?
There's, like, a memo that went out that I didn't get or something.
Yeah.
So.
Nobody got that memo.
They were all playing it by ear, you know?
And they were just, it was all dependent upon what the producers and the
casting agents wanted you to be.
So everybody would sort of adapt.
Like, whenever you got a place where everybody has the same politics, that's
not a good sign.
Like, something's gone wrong.
And everybody has these progressive left-wing politics.
Regardless of whether or not any of their positions make sense, they all just
sort of spit it out.
Well, I think it's just that there is sort of a desperation that gets bred from,
I mean, these people left their families.
They moved away.
They left everything they've ever known and gave up a lot of comfort and
security and love to follow this dream.
And so that dream becomes more and more and more important.
You need it more and more.
Because now you have nothing else.
Yeah.
You've given everything else up.
And so I think at that point, you can sort of mold people into whatever you'd
like them to be.
It ruins comics.
Yeah.
Because when comics start doing well, one of the first, as soon as they start
getting on television, the first thing they start doing is tempering their
material.
They tone it down a little bit.
Take the edge off.
Don't say anything that can get you in trouble.
And, you know, generally those are the funniest things.
The funniest things are the things that could go terribly wrong, you know, and
get you in trouble.
So they do that.
And then just, you know, they become like an, I always call it the velvet
prison because you get locked into that velvet prison.
You get, you get on TV, you get, get money, but also you become just one of
everybody else.
Yeah.
It's hard, it's hard not to do.
I mean, I'm, that's where I'm at.
You know, I still have a boss.
Yeah.
You know, my, my checks are written by a very specific company that, you know,
I have to be careful sometimes.
I know.
You know, even doing this today, I'm like, just a little bit.
I don't want to do that to you and sit here and like police myself the whole
time.
But I gotta be like, just don't say this.
Right.
Oh yeah.
No, I'm firmly aware of it.
People come in here and I could see it in their face.
Like, please don't bring up anything crazy.
No trans talk.
For sure.
Let's stay away from that today.
Yeah.
Wait, people, I mean, it's, it's, you know, it's a tricky situation.
And the, the thing about LA too is everybody has to get picked for stuff.
Yeah.
It's not like, even like music, like, especially like, look at Oliver Anthony,
no music deal,
no nothing.
Just put something on YouTube, blows up.
Yeah.
That's a real, in this day and age, that's a real thing.
But in acting, it's still, you have to get chosen.
You have to get cast for something.
And just that weird thing alone, where you're going into this thing and these
people have
to approve you.
And most of the people that get involved in acting in the first place, a large
percentage
of them, they did it because they didn't get enough attention when they were
younger.
And this is like, they, they just want to make up for, well, that's why I
became a comedian.
I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, for sure.
You know, it's all the same kind of mindset.
Like, there's something about you that wants to be famous.
Right.
Yeah.
It wants, you know, unless you're like someone who's just in love with the
craft of acting,
you know?
Right.
Which, how could you be when, you know, I made the decision that I wanted to be
an actor
when I was like five years old.
Really?
I didn't know what the craft of acting was.
My thing, though, honestly, was I loved movies so much.
I think I just, because I, I, I liked them more than my life, you know, I
wanted to live
in the movie.
I didn't know what making them would actually be like.
I didn't know what that career looked like.
I didn't know what acting was, but I would go to the movie theater and want to
be in it.
And I'd also see the guy, and I don't know, whatever the skill set was, I was
like, whatever
they're doing, I think I can do that.
I think I have whatever that is.
And, you know, thank God I was at least somewhat right, or I'd be waiting
tables in LA right
now.
Well, it's an interesting thing, right?
Because it's a craft that seems like you're just doing normal life, right?
Like you're, you're pretending, but you're, you're acting and behaving in a way
that people
do act and behave.
Like, that's the key to it.
It has to be believable.
Yeah.
So most people watch it go, I can do that.
Like, it's, this is normal life.
They're just acting like they're in normal life.
Right.
But what you don't realize is that there's like a dude with a beard with a
microphone in
your face and 200 people standing around waiting for you to be done so they can
do their job
again.
Sipping coffee, shaking their head, right at their watch.
Then if you fuck up a line, like, oh, Jesus, fucking guy, fucking unprofessional.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's a weird gig, man.
It's a weird gig.
And it's not what most people think it is.
And you could tell that by like the masters, the real masters, you know, when
you see like
a Daniel Day-Lewis do it, you're like, okay, whatever he's doing, I'm not doing
that.
That's, that's a fucking totally different thing.
Right.
This guy's in some weird place where it becomes, Gary Oldman becomes a
different person every
movie and you believe it.
Yeah.
That's the real craft of it, right?
Where like, I fucking know that's Gary Oldman, right?
But he's different and now he's Dracula and I believe it.
He's amazing.
Both of those guys, amazing.
You ever watch that show, um, Slow Horses?
I love it.
It's a fucking great show, right?
Yeah, it's really good.
It's a great show.
I can't wait for the new season.
I have a hook.
Somebody told me about it and I was a little skeptical at first.
It's like, all right.
And you never see like a lead, your, your number one, be like a total piece of
shit.
Right.
Total piece of shit.
Yeah.
Except Tony Soprano.
There you go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That, he was, that was a weird show, right?
Like a guy who's a murderer and a thief and you love him.
He loved him.
He was so good.
Yeah.
There's another guy.
Gandolfini, man.
You fucking believed him.
And there wasn't acting like that in television yet.
No.
That was like the first of its kind.
Yeah.
And even within that show, he was doing something no one else was doing.
Right.
And that's hard to, that's hard to keep up for, you know, you can, if you do it
for a film,
you're doing it for a couple months.
You know, at that, at that level of intensity, but to do that for seven years
for months
and months at a time is impossible.
Well, there was a danger in his eyes, like a real danger.
Like there's something about that dude, that, that dude's got, or while he was
alive, he
had demons in his brain.
Like you could tell.
Right.
Like there was moments, these menacing moments where he was like threatening
someone or doing
something.
You're like, that's coming from a real place.
Right.
That guy, you know, there's some guys who play tough guys in movies like, I'm
not buying
it.
But with that guy, you're like, oh, okay.
There's, this guy could kill somebody.
You don't want to piss him off in real life.
Well, he's also out of fucking control.
You know, you ever see the list of the things that he consumed before he died?
I have seen that.
It's bananas.
Yeah.
I mean, he was just off the rails.
Crazy.
Out of his fucking mind.
But I've seen the Hunter S. Thompson one.
Oh, dude, we narrated it.
We read it.
And then this guy, what was the dude, what's the guy's name that turned it into
a song?
I don't know.
There's a dance song, like an electric music dance song.
I haven't heard that.
With me and my friend, Greg Fitzsimmons, we're reading off Hunter S. Thompson's,
like, his daily
routine.
Beardy man.
Beardy man.
Yeah.
Shout out to beardy man.
It's pretty dope.
Play it.
Fuck it.
Can we?
Can we?
We get in trouble?
Can isn't the right word to ask.
We can.
What would happen?
We lose, like, revenue changes and stuff like that.
For sure?
Yeah, 100%.
All right.
Don't play it.
I'll listen to it after.
Sorry.
Yeah, well, I'll send it to you.
But it's a bananas routine.
And, you know, at the end of his life, I'm a giant Hunter S. Thompson fan, as
you can tell,
walking through all the artwork.
But at the end of his life, like, he couldn't even talk.
Like, he did an appearance once on Conan O'Brien.
And to me, it was, like, one of the saddest things.
Like, he could barely understand what he was saying.
He's just mumbling.
And when he was young, he was so fucking smooth and articulate and interesting
and fascinating.
And it's just drugs.
Just drugs and booze just cooked his brain.
I'll have to do a deep dive on him.
I've never read any of his stuff.
Really?
No, I haven't.
Oh, just read.
Just start off with Fear and Loathing.
Okay.
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas was a...
He got an assignment to cover, I think it was a motorcycle race.
That was the job.
So, I think it was for Sports Illustrator or something like that.
He got a job to just cover a race.
And he goes down there and just brings every kind of fucking drug known to man,
drives through the desert in a convertible with his friend,
and just writes this insane book.
It's completely insane.
It has nothing to do with this motorcycle race.
It's just all about the chaos of being out of your fucking mind in Vegas.
And it's brilliant.
It's so good.
Check it out.
Do you like Vegas?
I mean, I'm there a lot for fights.
And when I go, we go to a restaurant.
I go play pool.
I go to the fights.
I don't do anything else.
So, it's like, for me, it's like, yeah, there's great restaurants.
You know, the fights are awesome.
I love doing that.
So, it's like, but there's something about it where I ever, every time I go
there, I'm like, can I live here?
Like, I was actually talking to my friend Tony Hinchcliffe about it this past
weekend.
We were just there for the fights.
And I was saying, like, what if a, because, you know, Kill Tony is this
gigantic show now.
It's huge.
He sells out arenas all over the country with it.
It's on Netflix.
And I was saying, like, what if a Vegas casino offered you a fucking pile of
money?
Would you, do you think you could ever live here?
And we were just sitting there.
He's like, I don't know.
I don't want to do it.
I don't think I could do it either.
Because I think it's like sleeping next to a vampire.
Like, even if you know that the vampire's in the other room and he's not going
to bite your neck, it's like, he's right there.
You know?
Yeah, for sure.
I don't think it's good for you.
Vegas to me is like, you know when you have a big night out on a certain type
of booze and you get sick?
And then any time you drink that booze after that, that's Vegas to me.
Right.
Any time I land in Vegas, I'm like, ugh, I just feel gross.
Because I remember the last time I was there or the first time.
Yeah, it's, I think the people that live outside of Vegas, like people live in
Henderson and places like that, they love it.
Because it's really nice out there.
Like, you go out to the outskirts of Vegas, there's beautiful neighborhoods and
nice communities and, like, great stores and restaurants and stuff.
It's nice.
But you're still next to the Death Star.
Right.
It's like this big neon fucking vacuum just sucking people's money out of them.
I've never been off the Strip.
Maybe I should try that out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a, there's, there's great restaurants and great neighborhoods.
Like, it's, it's fine outside.
But the reason why they're there is because of the Death Star.
Like, that's what brings everybody there.
You know, everybody's there to just lose all their money.
Yeah, make really bad decisions.
Like, I, all my friends who gamble, when I would go there with them, I go, look
at this place.
See how big it is?
How do you think they got that money?
Suckers like you.
Yeah.
Like, this isn't, this isn't like a fair exchange, like, they're giving you
goods and you're giving them money.
No, this is like, they're giving you this, like, crazy proposition where you
think you're going to play blackjack and win a billion dollars.
Like, it's, and if you win too much money, they kick you out.
Did you ever gamble?
Was that ever?
No.
No.
No, no, no, no, no, no, not really.
I mean, I've, I've bet some money on fights.
I've, I've played blackjack a few times, but I've never lost any real money.
But my friend Dana White, he's a fucking degenerate.
Like, a crazy degenerate.
That's what I've heard.
I went to visit him recently.
So, he was at Red Rocks Casino and a couple of my other buddies were there.
So, we showed up and went into the blackjack room and he was there.
And when I got there, he was down $600,000 when I got there.
And it was a normal night for him.
And he wasn't even nervous.
He was like, hey, what's up?
He's shaking my hand, shaking my hand, giving me a hug.
All these other people are there.
And I got fucking massive anxiety.
Yeah.
I was like, this is crazy.
How are you?
And then so him and, and Jamie was there too.
And him and Taylor LeJuan, the football player, he, he coaches Taylor how to,
how to play blackjack.
And so, they got together.
He tells them when to hit and when not to hit.
And they did it right next to us.
Within five minutes, Taylor was down $125,000.
Jesus.
I was like, what are you doing?
Oh, man.
Yeah.
That makes me nervous just thinking about it.
He got up and then they quit.
So, he quit ahead.
I think he won like $100,000.
And then he quit.
You know, they moved on to Baccarat because you can bet more per hand.
That's what they're doing now?
Yeah.
It's like up to $500,000 per hand or something like that.
Which one's Baccarat?
How do you play that?
I've tried to watch it.
I don't really quite understand.
It's apparently not hard.
You're betting on the dealer or the player.
Is that the big long table with all the...
I don't understand it.
It's not as long as like roulette.
So, Dana's on to that now or Taylor?
I think that room, they switched them all to Baccarat Taylor.
I don't think it's blackjack anymore.
So, you can gamble more?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, my God.
Definitely more, faster.
He's mainlining the gamble now.
He told a story on, I think it was, was it flagrant?
It was flagrant.
Where he talked about losing like $6 million in one night.
Yeah, what?
Yeah.
That's my theory about slap fight, why they're doing slap fight.
I think it's Dana's gambling money.
That's what I think.
I think it's like, it needs some source of revenue outside of the UFC so it
doesn't lose
his UFC money.
That's tough to watch, man.
I don't watch it.
Yeah.
I've watched a couple of clips.
Sorry, Dana, I know you, but it's tough to watch.
I don't like it.
It's just people getting brain damage over and over again.
Yeah, it's not my thing.
I don't get it.
And it's all like the saddest people getting whacked in the head.
It's not a good thing.
Not good.
Yeah.
They call it fights, too.
Like, okay, I know.
I mean, I guess.
You should come up with another name.
It's kind of insulting to an actual fight.
Right.
But that's my theory, is that that's his gambling money, because that fucking
dude
gambles, because I asked him once, I go, you like living here?
He goes, I love the action.
I'm like, okay.
He's a good friend of mine, but he's a different person than me.
That's awesome.
I'm not, that's not me.
Yeah.
If I lived in Vegas, I'd live way outside of Vegas, and even then, I don't
think I
could do it, because we've talked about, you know, we have a comedy club in
town, the
comedy mothership, and we talked about doing another mothership somewhere, and
the two most
likely places that we would be able to do it are New York and Vegas.
So we talked about doing one in Vegas, but I was like, man, the only way it
would work
is I'd have to be there a lot.
Like, we'd have to be there a lot, and we'd have to, you know, we'd have to
make sure that
it's run right, that it's like run with the same vibe that we run it here,
where everybody's
cool, there's no assholes, everybody's real friendly and real supportive of new
comedians,
and then I'd have to spend a lot of time there.
I'm like, I don't want to do that.
Right.
This is...
Wouldn't New York be, like, returning to where you cut your teeth or something?
Is that where you started?
Yeah, I mean, I started in Boston, but I did spend a lot of time in New York.
New York would be a better option, really, because there's a lot more talent
there.
And in order to have a really good comedy club, you can't, you can't just start
it out,
like, you can't just go, like, to Columbus, Ohio, or Cincinnati, or...
I guess Columbus has, like, a little bit of a scene, but you'd have to have a
real scene
with, like, real headliners and, like, top-level talent.
Right.
And the way we were able to pull it off in Austin is everybody moved here
during the pandemic.
Like, me and Tony moved...
Ron White moved here first, and then me and Tony moved here, and then once we
started doing
shows, we were talking to all our friends in L.A., and L.A. was shut down
during the pandemic.
And so everybody just kind of moved out here, at least temporarily, because
comedians are junkies.
Like, they want to go on stage, and it was taken away from them for a year and
a half in L.A.
Couldn't perform in L.A. for a year and a half.
Made no fucking sense.
And out here, we were just doing shows, like, in November of 2020.
Like, it was indoor shows and super-spreader shows.
And so because of that...
Super-spreader, I forgot about that word.
Tom Segura moved here, Christina Pazitsky moved here, Tim Dillon moved here.
I mean, it's just like Shane Gillis moved here.
It was like, we had so many, like, national headliners, we could pull off a
club.
Yeah.
But you have to have that kind of thing where it's not just the weekends, but
you have to
have, like, Tuesday shows, Wednesday shows.
It has to be, like, a lot of people around that you could have a show with.
The infrastructure.
Yeah.
I randomly lived in Austin during COVID.
Oh, really?
My wife and I, we got married in November of 2019.
She's from Brazil.
And I'm from Ohio.
So we had no...
There was nowhere we were going to live or it was going to feel like home.
But we, you know...
I'd lived in L.A. for 16 years.
I was ready to get out.
We wanted to start a family somewhere else.
And we didn't know where to go.
So we came here in December of 2019.
And we had the best two months ever.
And then everything shut down and we're stuck in an apartment, don't know
anybody.
And, you know, it didn't really get a fair shake.
We loved it while it was going.
And then, yeah, I did about two months of lockdown.
Couldn't do it anymore.
And then we bought an Airstream and just started traveling around.
And then I had to be in Montana for work for Yellowstone.
And we parked the Airstream up there and never left.
Oh, wow.
Montana's fucking awesome.
It's the best.
It's so great.
It's so beautiful.
Last time I was there was in the summer.
Well, actually, last time I was there, I was hunting with Bourdain.
We went pheasant hunting there.
That was pretty cool.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it was one of the last times I saw him.
What part?
Oh, I forget.
I forget where we were.
I'm pretty sure I flew into Bozeman, but I think we're outside of Billings.
Okay.
I forget.
But the summer there is insane.
Yeah.
Perfection.
It's so beautiful.
Perfection.
Everything's green.
You see the mountains.
We heard wolves howling one night.
And you see elk herds just chilling on the side of a hill.
Like, God, this place is magical.
And it doesn't get dark until like 11 at night.
Right.
It's very confusing to know like when to eat dinner because you're just like,
it's light
for so long.
But then in the wintertime, the, you know, the exchanges, it gets dark at 4.30
p.m.
Right.
But yeah, we love it, man.
It's the best thing that's ever happened for me.
It was just sort of like all the L.A. stuff we were talking about.
It's the opposite of that.
The opposite.
There's, I have no FOMO about anything anymore, you know.
Oh, that's great.
I can just think and sleep and read and watch films and it's the best.
Yeah.
Well, your show made a lot of fucking people move out there though.
That's true.
Yeah.
And they're not happy about it.
The valley that I live in, we had some people come visit us.
Our friends from California drove out and we went on a hike and we were in
their car and
they had, you know, Cali plates and we get off the hike and someone had written
go back
in the dust on their car.
Like people are super weird about, so I don't tell anyone like exactly where I'm
at because
they would get really mad at me.
Dude, that happened in 2012.
I was hunting in Montana.
We went to the Missouri breaks and we, we were going to this restaurant and one
of the
guys in the restaurant had, he had his car parked outside and it was like a
rental car
and someone had wrote, go back home, you know, like Montana is for Montanans or
something
like that.
They wrote it in the dirt.
Right.
Which is dumb because if they have the plates, they clearly aren't living there,
you know?
Right.
Yeah.
They're visiting.
They're going back.
Yeah.
But it's just retards.
You're going to get retards in every state.
Like if you have a hundred people, one of them's a fucking idiot.
Sure.
Right.
And if you got a town of, you know, X amount of a hundred thousand people, you're
going
to have a good amount of fucking dumbasses.
For sure.
Those are the ones like, this is our place.
We own it.
This is our dirt.
Meanwhile, someone moved there at some point.
Exactly.
You know, like somewhere along the line, someone moved there and all you did
was stay.
Exactly.
You didn't do anything that cool.
Exactly.
You know what I mean?
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that one guy, I can't go to bars there anymore because whatever that one
idiot is,
is at the bar.
Of course.
And he can't wait to start a fight with me.
Right.
Just like, can't wait to do it.
Because like, it's a win-win for him.
You know, he gets to sue me or something.
I don't know.
You know, but it's a lose-lose for me.
So.
Well, it's just like his life is empty and it's like, all of a sudden there's
purpose and
it's like, you ruined Montana.
Fuck off.
Right.
Yeah.
Or my favorite is when they call people colonizers.
That's my favorite.
Like, bro, if you don't live in Ethiopia, someone in your ancestor was a colonizer.
Oh, 100%.
Period.
Yeah.
We all had to come from somewhere.
Also, isn't it like the most American thing ever is that I can choose where I
want to live.
Yeah.
That should be celebrated.
It should be.
Yeah.
The idea that, oh, we were here first.
Those are the same idiots that hate when a band becomes successful.
Because like, oh, I knew them when they were underground.
Now they sold out.
Yeah.
It's just a moron mentality.
Yeah.
You're always going to have that no matter where you go.
But Montanans are like fiercely proud of being from Montana.
Yeah.
They'll always tell you what generation they are.
Right.
Third generation Montana.
That's so silly.
Yeah.
And I'm not Montana, but my son will be.
Yeah.
He can say that he is.
Right.
First generation.
Right.
It's like an anchor baby.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He can go fly fishing and no one's going to give him a hard time.
That's right.
I was born here.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
You're good.
You got a hall pass.
Yeah.
But like people that live in like that Yellowstone place, you know, that, um,
Yellowstone club.
Yeah.
That place.
Those are like fake Montanans to Montanans.
I have a buddy who lives up there and he was telling me, I don't know what the
fuck anybody
would live up there.
Like, cause it's awesome.
What's wrong with you?
It's still Montana.
Like, let, let it go.
Right.
They just had some problem with, uh, sewage being dumped into the river or
something like
that.
The Yellowstone club?
The Yellowstone club.
Oh God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The locals were very angry.
And I don't know if that's locals like making some stuff up to sort of cause a
problem,
but they were saying that they were finding sewage from the Yellowstone club in
the, in the
local river there.
Whoa.
Yeah.
You have to look that up.
Oh, whoa.
Yeah.
That's not good.
That's the problem with rich people.
Yeah.
Rich people are like, fuck everybody else.
I haven't been to that place, but I heard it's awesome.
And the views, I've seen photographs of it.
God, the fucking views there are insane.
Yeah.
I have multiple friends that live in Montana and the thing about it is like,
everybody will
tell you like, when you're surrounded by those mountains and you look out at
them every
day, it like centers you and it humbles you.
That's exactly right.
It's like the most spectacular natural art you're ever going to see.
And it's around you all the time.
And I drink my coffee every morning, looking out the window and it looks like a
painting
and it never gets old.
You know, if, if, if we need to go to the grocery store, I'll do it because it's
so fun
to drive there.
You know, you get out, you put some tunes on, it's the best thing ever versus
like living
in LA to go anywhere was the worst thing ever.
Right.
Um, yeah, everything's a pleasure up there, man.
It's really, it's something.
But if you, if you, if you need any sort of like fast pace or socialization, or
if you're
like trying to meet a babe or something, it's not going to happen.
There's no people.
Yeah.
I get that.
There's a little of that in Austin.
They're upset that the Californians moved here.
Yeah.
They're upset.
A lot of people blamed me and Elon.
Sure.
They blamed us for, for moving here and ruining Austin.
Like, sorry, we made it more awesome.
Fucking pussies.
Shut your mouth.
It's, it's all the same thing.
It's like people that want credit for being here first.
Like, fuck off.
Now you have more restaurants, way more comedy.
There's like seven comedy clubs on my street now.
On the street where my club is, there's seven comedy clubs now.
That's amazing.
It's like one of the, the big hubs of live comedy in the world now.
Did it have it at all before?
It had a couple of places.
There was a place called Cap City that actually went under before the pandemic
or actually like
right at the beginning of the pandemic.
When I got here, it was for sale.
And so I was looking at that place to buy it and, but it didn't work out.
And then there was another, there's another place that's been around forever
called the
Velveeta room.
It's a real small room.
I think it seats like a hundred or so.
And then, you know, I think there was maybe a couple other bars that maybe had
comedy and
there was like a small scene of some comedians, but nothing like what it is now.
Like it's not even, not even comparable.
I mean, there's like 17, 18 world-class comics that live here now.
Wow.
It's crazy.
And talk about stage fright.
I think that is, that would be the hardest art form.
Just getting up, you have no help.
There's nothing to hide behind.
Right.
There's no music.
Right.
There's like, you know, it's just silence and you and a microphone.
You can't just get into your tune and fucking just play and close your eyes.
No, there was a, there was a film actually one time that I was attached to, to
play a standup
comedian.
And I, I promised the director that if we got our funding and got the green
light to go,
that I'd go do it.
That I'd actually go out and like work up 15 minutes and just, you know, do it
until I
understood what it was like and that movie fell through.
And I was very, very happy about that because I didn't want to do it.
It's hard.
I bet, man.
It's, it's confusing because the people are just talking.
You're like, why is that hard to do?
Everybody talks, you know, like everybody could tell a story.
Everybody can, and it seems easy to do until you do it.
And then you're like, Oh, this is, but I was hooked right away because I sucked
the first
night that I bombed, but I was like, I got a couple of laughs on some things.
And I was like, I think I can figure this out.
But I was, like I said, I was more scared than when I was fighting.
I was more scared before like a big fight.
Like it was weird.
I was like, why am I nervous?
I didn't make any sense.
My friend Whitney Cummings explained it to me.
She said, people have this fear of public speaking because in tribal societies
back in
the day, the only time you spoke in front of a large group of people was when
you're being
judged because they were going to kill you.
Oh, interesting.
Right.
Yeah.
Doesn't that make sense?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So like if you're in front of people, they're all like, what did he do?
You know, so you have to like, guys, I didn't steal the tomatoes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I never thought about that.
Yeah.
That's weird.
That's what it is.
Yeah.
No place to hide, man.
I don't know.
That, that sounds scary.
And especially if like it starts going bad, like if you start to bomb, is there,
is there
any way out of that or is it?
If people have recovered, yeah.
The people have started off bombing and then pulled themselves out of it.
I've done it a couple of times.
Most of the time when I'm bombing, I'm bombing forever.
Like, but there's a good to that.
All right.
The good is you have to re-examine your material and you, every time in my
career in the, like
the early days when I bombed, I always got way better afterwards because I was
like, whatever
the fuck that was, I don't want to experience that again.
And I really focused and really, really wrote like crazy and went over
recordings and buttoned
down and trimmed things and changed things around.
And you, you need losses.
Losses are very important.
They're important in fighting.
They're important in, they're important in life.
Like a, one of my kids just had a breakup recently and I had a conversation
with her.
I go, I know this sucks, but this is actually important.
Like it has to happen.
And I told her like about like first time a girl broke up with me when I was 17,
I was
devastated.
Oh, the worst.
Oh, couldn't believe my life was over.
I'm only 17.
I can, I'm never going to recover.
I'm like, it's so important because you realize like as time passes, you
understand that this
is just a moment in time and there's other people you're going to meet and it's
just, you
have to develop some resiliency, some emotional resiliency.
Right.
And so you have to experience that.
And you also have to realize that, you know, people, they don't know what they're
doing
either.
Like boys don't know what they're doing.
Girls don't know what they're doing.
They're kind of figuring it out as they go along that people break up and they
make up.
And these are these lessons that you have to learn in life.
And loss is important because it makes you understand like why this person gets
sick of
me.
Why am I annoying?
Why, you know, am I selfish?
Like, what is it?
What is wrong with me?
You know, why, you know, why am I picking these people that are going to break
my heart?
Why don't I adjust?
Why don't I like, maybe I should spend some time alone and figure out what the
fuck is
wrong with me or figure out who I am.
And those moments where you have to kind of go through things and figure them
out, they're
so important for you in life.
And for a comic, bombing can oftentimes be one of the best, like motivating
factors to take
you to another level in your career or wreck your confidence forever.
Right.
Just like fighting.
Yeah.
I was going to say it happens to fighters.
Oh, yeah.
Some fighters lose and they're never the same again.
And some fighters lose.
And then a new version of them emerges in the next fight.
You're like, whoa, this dude dialed in.
Who would be a good example of that?
Charles Oliveira.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
He's the best example of it.
Because for the longest time, everybody thought he was a quitter.
Like, he would just break.
And now he's like one of the scariest motherfuckers alive.
Yeah.
You know, I spent this last weekend, the fight with Max Holloway.
Amazing.
Like, good Lord.
Like, Max Holloway was a two to one favorite in that fight.
He got shut out.
Yeah.
Like, literally every round was a dominant performance by Oliveira.
It was crazy.
It's funny people complaining about that fight, too.
It's like the...
Because it was on the ground.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My daughter complained about it.
Did she?
She's like, the main event was so boring.
You're a casual.
My kid's a casual.
People love a slugfest, don't they?
Oh, yeah.
They do.
They do.
They do love a slugfest.
Yeah.
But, you know, that's the sport.
The sport is like sometimes it's going to be exciting.
And sometimes it's just going to be a ground battle.
But for me, it was exciting because I was trying to figure out whether Max
could get up.
What he could do to prevent from getting taken down.
And whether or not he could figure out a way to reverse the position and get on
top.
And, you know, when you're watching like a guy dominate a world champion like
that, it's just you're in marvel.
You're like, wow, this is crazy.
I can't believe he's able to do this.
This is nuts.
I wish I would have started jujitsu when I was small because I tried like, you
know, late 30s.
And I was like, it was kind of like the golf thing where I was like, well,
first of all, it's way cooler than golf.
But I was like, the amount of time is going to take me until this doesn't feel
like being smothered.
Yeah.
It's going to be a long time.
I mean, I don't know if I have, I don't know if I can start now.
You know what I mean?
It takes forever.
I'm sure.
Yeah.
Like, how long would it take for like a grown person until it, until you
actually know what's going on intuitively and it doesn't feel like chaos?
Well, there's layers of knowing intuitively.
Like, there's guys, like, even as a black belt, there's guys that I could roll
with and I would just get humiliated because they're just so much better than I
am.
Like, my friend Gordon Ryan, that's his belt up there, Abu Dhabi champion.
Oh, cool.
He's the greatest of all time, like, and he's 30.
Yeah.
The greatest grappler that's ever lived.
That looks like he, man.
He's a freak.
He's amazing.
But he trains 365 days a year.
He does not take breaks off.
Christmas, fuck you.
It's your birthday, fuck you.
Happy Easter, fuck you.
He trains every day and he trains like twice a day, three times a day.
It's like, that is the only way to be the greatest.
And, you know, and he's obviously a lot bigger than me, but it's not the best
example.
But he does that to heavyweight black belts.
Just humiliates them.
He writes down on a piece of paper what he's going to do to them and hands it
to the judges before the fight.
So he's like, I'm going to triangle this guy.
That's crazy.
And he's doing it to world champions.
It's amazing.
Like, guys who have been, like, multiple-time world champions.
Wow.
And he's just predicting what he's going to do.
And then he passes on every submission until he can get him in that.
Like, he's having fun.
He's, like, he's playing with his food.
You know, so there's levels to stuff.
So to be competent in rolling, you can get there in a couple of years,
depending on how often you train.
Like, Bourdain got really serious at 58.
Wow.
At 58.
That's when he started?
That's when he started.
Yeah.
Oh.
When I first met him, he wasn't training at all.
When I first met him, he came to the UFC.
His wife was really into the UFC, and she had just started doing jiu-jitsu.
And she was getting him into the sport, and he really got interested in it.
And then she took him to jiu-jitsu classes, and like, fuck, this is actually
kind of fascinating.
Yeah.
And he had never done any kind of athletic things in his whole life.
And then, like, when he was 60, there's a photo of him, like, in his 60s, and
he's walking down the street with his, he had gotten divorced, and he was
dating some new girl.
And he's got this six-pack, and he looks shredded.
And when I first met him, he was, like, doughy, and he had a thumb ring, and he
was, like, you know, a chef, and, you know, he was into drinking.
And he just became a jiu-jitsu addict, and he was training every fucking day.
And sometimes twice a day, he would do a private lesson, and he would take a
class every day.
Wow.
Yeah, he got a, and then he, he told me he was taking, he's, like, when we were
hunting in Montana, he, we were on the ground in Montana.
He wanted to, like, learn some stuff.
So I was explaining him, like, I'm, like, when you go for a darts, there's a
way to get, there's a thing called a Japanese necktie, and I was explaining to
him, on the dirt.
I was, like.
You guys all camoed out doing jiu-jitsu?
Yes!
On the ground!
That's amazing.
But he was, like, he was so interested in it that he was, like, constantly
asking questions.
And he had guys that were in the crew that had also gotten interested in jiu-jitsu
because of him.
So, like, while he was there filming his show, he also went down and was
training.
He found a local jiu-jitsu gym, and he went down there and trained while he was
there.
He would train everywhere on the road.
Yeah, he would go to, like, foreign countries and train.
Like, he didn't even speak the language, and, you know, he's this fucking
famous guy from TV, and he's just rolling in there with, like, normal people
and getting strangled.
Fifty-eight, man.
That's incredible.
Fifty-eight?
I have no excuse.
I'm going to start.
Yeah, do it.
I want to put it in front of my kid, for sure.
Oh, definitely.
I mean, as soon as he can do it, I want him to try.
You know, if he likes it or not.
But it's, like, I feel like it's one of those things.
It's so good to connect with other people in that way from such a young age.
It gives you confidence.
And then if you love it, if he has a passion for it, you don't have to worry
about him becoming a drug addict or something because you can't be both.
Right.
You know, there's a few things where, like, you can't be both.
You've got to really give that everything.
Also, it becomes, like, a real source of confidence for kids if they know that
they can fight.
Like, they can avoid fights.
People won't want to fight them because they'll have a reputation.
It's very good to know.
It's also, like, you can get out of things just by knowing how to fight because
you know, like, what people are doing and what they're not doing.
You don't say anything stupid because you're trying to trick a person into
thinking that you're a tough guy.
This is a quiet confidence that comes with these guys.
And also, if something does happen, most people have zero idea of how to fight.
Zero.
And they think they're just going to swing and hit you in the face.
And you see all this shit coming way before it happens.
You see them moving their right foot back, like, oh, God.
Like, here we go.
Like, it's like they're playing a game, but they don't even know the rules.
Like, they don't even know the skill.
They don't know anything.
But they've seen it on TV and they think they're going to be able to pull it
off, especially if they're drunk.
Oh, yeah.
There's a whole Instagram channel that's dedicated to fights on 6th Street here.
Have you seen this?
It's amazing, dude.
It's incredible.
You can just watch it for hours.
I've seen a bunch, yeah.
A lot of them taking place right in front of my club.
Fights on the street are so scary because guys fall and they hit their head.
That's how people die.
People die where they get punched in the jaw and they go out and they just bang
their head off the ground.
Or there's a lot of people out there that'll, when you're already out, step on
your head or kick your head.
You see that a lot.
I don't understand anyone who has the impulse to do that.
That's crazy to me.
Like, if you've won the fight already, move on.
That's scary stuff.
That's evil.
There are some people that get red with rage and they lose their mind and then
they wind up in jail for the rest of their life.
And they're just sitting in a cell going, what the fuck?
One night, drunk, doing something stupid, and now I'm here forever.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
And someone's dead.
And someone's dead.
And someone's parents are crying and someone's missing their father.
Like, fuck, man.
Because he looked at my girlfriend.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
I know.
People are retarded.
Yeah.
The best thing about fighting is it teaches you not to fight.
Very few of my friends that know how to fight have ever been in street fights.
It almost never happens.
It's just like, it's such a stupid thing to do.
How many times in your life have you had to use it practically in a real life
scenario?
Never.
Really?
Never.
Not since I was in, like, high school.
I've never been in a fight fight, like, an actual fight since high school.
I'll avoid them.
Yeah.
I'm not, like, if I know I can fuck you up and I can just get away, I'm like, I'll
just
get away.
I don't need to prove.
Right.
What's the point?
Also, here's the thing.
People always say, oh, if I could fight, I'd fuck people up.
Great.
And then they're going to come back and kill you, you know?
And then they're going to run you over or shoot you.
Don't be stupid.
Like, it's pointless.
It's pointless.
You know, I've had situations where I thought I was going to have to fuck
somebody up, and
I didn't.
But you have to have self-control.
You have to, you know, you have to be able to know.
And also, like, most people, like, if they want to fight you, all you have to
do is kind
of, like, put your hands up and move a little bit.
Like, they're not going to be able to do anything.
They'll be swinging, and you're just like, come on, man.
What are we doing here?
What are we doing?
And it's, the only time people get hurt is when you engage.
Like, you're both swinging at each other.
If someone's swinging at you, and they don't know what they're doing, they have
almost no
chance of hurting me.
Like, zero, unless I'm asleep, unless I'm really drunk, you have almost zero
chance of hitting
me.
Right.
Unless you really know what to do.
If you really know how to fight, most of those people who really know how to
fight aren't
fighting people anyway.
Aren't street fighting, yeah.
Yeah.
And I'm not going to provoke anybody.
I'm not going to start a fight.
So it's like, I mean, I know a few of my friends that have had to fuck people
up.
Gordon had to beat the fuck out of a homeless guy in Austin.
What?
Yeah.
No way.
Oh, yeah, some homeless guy.
He picked the wrong dude.
Boy, did he.
And Gordon tried to get out of it.
The guy wouldn't, and he put him to sleep.
Wow.
Yeah.
Put him to sleep, and then called the cops.
The cops came and picked the guy up.
Humiliated.
Oh, my kid's the wrong guy.
Yeah.
But that shows you how fucking stupid people are, because Gordon's a gorilla.
He's this big, giant, 240-pound jack dude who's, you know, I don't know how
many times
jujitsu world champion.
And then some fucking idiot, you know, probably high out of his mind.
Yeah, drugs are bad.
Picks a fight with him.
I think he picked a fight with his girlfriend first.
I think he'd fuck with his girlfriend and fuck with another guy.
Just a problem.
Some guys are just nuts, man.
Yeah.
And, you know, mental health issues.
But fights are stupid.
They're so pointless.
You know, organized fights is a different thing.
I mean, that's high-level problem-solving with dire physical consequences.
That's what I call it.
That's what a real fight is.
Like, we'll both agree we're going to make a certain weight.
We're going to meet September 7th.
Here it is.
That's a different thing.
It's a beautiful thing.
It's like a chess match and you can't breathe.
You know?
Yeah.
It's crazy.
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
Yeah.
But in chess, the pieces can only move a certain way.
Right.
In jiu-jitsu, what's nuts is there's, like, so many different variations.
And then you add in striking and wrestling.
You're like, oh, my God.
It's so...
I love it.
I'll never get tired of watching MMA.
It's the most exciting thing ever for me.
I like other sports.
Like, I've really grown to love football since I moved to Texas.
And I can watch a good basketball game.
Baseball's hard.
But to me, it's all just downtime unless fights are on.
Right.
If fights are on, I'm not watching anything else.
Like, I've been at football games, like at UT games, with the UFC on my phone
sitting there while I'm watching the UFC.
And I wish I had football envy.
I went to a Christian school in Ohio, and we didn't have a football team.
And I feel like if you don't, like, grow up around it in high school, you just
don't understand, like, the nuance.
I understand the rules, and I get it.
But I just, I don't know.
I don't love it like people do, and I wish I did.
I wish it did.
The stakes just, I don't understand it.
I don't understand the team sport thing as much as I do.
Like, I love MMA.
I love watching UFC because it's like the stakes are so high.
Right.
There's something about one-on-one.
Who's the better person today?
You know, that's, you know, you can't, there's no one to blame it on.
Right.
It's just one person.
It's a different thing.
Like, I have grown to love it living here.
My wife is a big football fan.
And so she got me into it.
And then I've gone to a bunch of UT games, and they're fucking fun, man.
And it's like, when someone scores a touchdown, everybody wins.
Like, the whole team cheer, like, the whole audience, like, 80,000 people, and
there's something to that.
Right.
Because, like, when fighters fight, and someone gets knocked out, like, people
cheer, and it's exciting.
But, like, you know, you never know who's, like, if you're watching Justin Gaethje
fight Max Holloway, I don't know who's for Justin Gaethje who's for Max Holloway.
You look out there, like, everybody's wearing UT colors, right?
Or they're wearing, you know, Oklahoma colors.
Like, it's like, you've got your colors.
Everybody, you've got your outfits.
Everybody's pumped.
They cheer when this guy scores.
They boo when that guy scores.
It's like more of a team.
Everybody wins together.
Yeah.
Whereas, like, with MMA, you know, you, there's, there's, it's like, you're
just watching an individual.
You're appreciating an individual who's a rare human being, type of human being
that becomes a guy who could become an MMA world champion.
That is a truly special human.
Like, the amount of dedication and the amount of focus and discipline and the
courage that you have to have to get in your fucking underwear and stand there
with a cup on, with little tiny pads on your gloves in front of another savage,
like, another trained killer who's been training for 18 weeks for this one
moment.
And they bolt the door shut to the cage.
And then the referee goes, fighter, are you ready?
Fighter, are you ready?
Let's go.
Crazy.
And then the whole world is watching.
You're surrounded by 20,000 people and lights and cheering and you, you're
trying to keep your shit together and you're getting kicked.
And how do you sleep the night before that?
That would be my thing.
I don't think I could, I wouldn't be able to sleep.
It's hard.
I would always get sick.
I would get sick before tournaments because I wasn't sleeping.
Right.
And I was training really hard and I didn't even take vitamins back then.
I was a dumbass, but because I was young.
I stopped fighting when I was 22, but for a lot of these guys, it is hard.
It's really hard to just relax.
And then they grow to learn how to relax.
And then, then it's really scary.
And then it's really hard to beat them because a lot of guys are terrified
before they even get, like Anderson Silva in his prime.
He would win fights at the weigh-ins because they would just like look at him.
And he'd be standing there staring at you and you're like, oh my God, I have to
fight this guy tomorrow.
Oh my, what have I done?
Why am I doing this with my life?
Imagine doing that stare down Mike Tyson back in the day.
Oh God.
That'd be the most terrifying.
Oh dude, it was, it was.
There would be guys that look like they were going to faint while the referee
was giving him instructions.
You know, I remember he fought Bruce Seldon and Bruce Seldon, who was a beast,
man.
He's a fucking tank of a man.
And he looked like he was going to faint during the stare down.
I can't imagine.
Yeah.
He was the scariest of all time.
He was.
He was absolutely the scariest of all time.
The scariest boxer that I've ever seen in my life.
And there was a period of time between like 1986 and like probably like around
1990 where he was just fucking running through everybody.
It was so, you would buy the pay-per-view knowing that the guy was going to get
knocked out and hoping that you'd get your money's worth.
Because the pay-per-view is like whatever it was, 50 bucks or something.
You know, like if it's like 30 seconds, you're like, aw, that's bullshit.
People would get upset that the pay-per-view was so quick.
But, I mean, that's what you were, that's what you're signing up for.
And those kind of guys, I mean, when you got a guy that's got every box checked,
discipline, focus, training, genetics, everything all together, mindset.
Right.
He would beat guys like long before they ever got in there.
Because they knew that they were fighting this demon, this guy that just was so
much better than everybody else.
And there's no way you could catch up to him.
No.
Is it true about his, wasn't it like his trainer died and then kind of he lost
the whole?
Yeah.
Well, his trainer was Customato.
And Customato was a legendary figure in boxing.
He had trained Floyd Patterson, Jose Torres.
He trained like a lot of like legit world champions.
And he was also a hypnotist.
And he adopted.
Wait, what?
Yeah, he was a hypnotist.
Yeah.
Well, he was really into the mental side of fighting.
He was more, almost like as much of a psychologist as he was a boxing trainer.
It was all about tempering their mind and getting them ready.
Like he would tell Mike Tyson, you don't exist.
Only the task exists.
He would say crazy shit to him.
And he adopted him when he was 13.
So Mike was 13 and he came from Bedford Stuy in Brooklyn.
It was a horrible neighborhood.
So his whole life was like crime and violence and no love and just terrible.
And then all of a sudden this man took him under his wing who was also a
legendary figure in boxing.
Legendary.
Like he was like, he was the guru.
And, you know, he basically, it was like the perfect storm.
And then he was also, his manager was this guy Jim Jacobs and Jim Jacobs was
not just a manager.
He was an historian of boxing and he had this incredible library of all the
great fighters.
So he would watch film, you know, like fucking those.
He like have a projection screen and he would watch film of like Jack Johnson
and Stanley Ketchel and, you know, Sandy Sadler and all these great fighters
from back in the day.
Roberto Duran, he would sit there and absorb all these amazing fights.
And when you can watch, like that's one of the great things about today, like
especially with MMA.
Like if you look at the fights from 1993 and the fights from 2026, the skill
level is like magnitudes greater because all these guys have grown up watching
all these fights now.
Because from the time that MMA existed, it was on television.
You could watch it on YouTube after that.
And it was like there was always fights that you could see.
So you could see what guys were doing.
So you had an understanding of the level.
So kids would grow up imitating their favorite fighters.
You know, they'd grow up, you know, imitating John Jones and imitating Cain Velasquez
and all these guys.
And you would, you, you, you could absorb a lot just by seeing the elite level
of these guys.
And Mike Tyson was one of the only guys back then that had that ability.
Interesting.
Because he had this immense library of the greatest fights of all time.
And so he would be training with one of the greatest trainers that ever lived,
who was probably the greatest psychological trainer that ever lived.
Also, the guy was hypnotizing him at 13, programming him to be this destruction
machine.
And then he was watching fights.
So he was watching all these guys, Jack Johnson and all these like great old
school champions and Jack Dempsey and like, and he just absorbed it all.
Incredible.
And he would get in that ring with fucking no socks on and no robe and just
like a throwback.
He was like one, he was like, he absorbed the energy of those old great
fighters, the Sugar Ray Robinsons and the hardcore old school guys who would
fight like once a week, once every two weeks.
Dude, is that how often they were doing?
Oh, they were fought so many times.
I think before Sugar Ray Robinson ever lost a fight, he was 90 and oh,
something crazy like that.
Wow.
Yeah.
Just something.
90.
Fucking crazy.
Whoa.
Just crazy.
Yeah.
That's wild.
And to be able to watch that kind of stuff when you're young, you absorb it,
you know?
Sure.
It's like kids that play instruments now.
Sure.
I mean, you'll see an eight-year-old online who's better than any drummer in
the 70s.
Right.
It's crazy.
Right.
It's just how quickly they can get better now.
Oh, yeah.
Because they have access to everyone all the time.
So cool.
I would imagine that's like that with all sports now.
But, you know, like you could go back and watch, if you're a basketball player,
you could go back and watch Jordan.
You could watch Larry Bird.
You could watch, you know, LeBron, Kobe.
You could watch all these great basketball players and see what they're doing.
Whereas, if you were young, you know, in the 60s or 70s, like you only got to
see the people you saw.
You were as good as the people you were around, which is why it was so
important to be a part of, like, a great program in high school and college.
Because then you'd be around, like, and then you'd go to the States and see how
these guys are doing.
Oh, these guys are better than us.
Like, I remember that from wrestling.
Like, the only time when I was wrestling in high school, the only time you get
to see, like, really good guys, you'd go somewhere else.
Like, I was, I went to school in Newton, Newton South High School, and we had
good wrestlers in our program.
And I thought they were good until I would go to the States.
And you go, oh, my God, these fucking guys, these kids are going to camps every
year.
They were wrestling 365 days a year.
They're, like, obsessed with it.
And then if you go to, like, Iowa or somewhere like that, like, good Lord, it's
a fucking religion there.
I mean, they've been doing that since they were babies.
They've been, you know, it's like you, you, you, you absorb what you see.
And you, your brain rises to the level of the competition that you see.
The last time I was really into a boxer was Loma.
Oh, man.
I love watching him.
Oh, dude.
He's got a cool story, too.
Didn't his dad make him do ballet for a while?
Ukrainian dance for two years.
Pulled him out of boxing for two years.
That guy moves like, it doesn't look real.
Right.
Like, people shouldn't be able to move like that.
The Matrix, they call him.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
Yeah, he would do footwork that no one had even considered doing before.
The movement, the slipping to the side and the angles.
And his ability to change direction was crazy.
Because he would be here, and then he'd be here, and then you're swinging, and
he's here, and he's hitting you.
And he's, bah, bah, bang.
And he also was way smaller than everybody.
He was way smaller than everybody.
Like, he was supposed to be a 126-pound fighter.
And he went all the way up to the 140-pound division.
Are there, like, a lot of younger guys doing that sort of style now?
Coming up?
Or is that like a one-off?
It's kind of a one-off.
Usyk does it.
But Usyk was trained by Lomachenko's father.
Oh, okay.
They were trained by the same guy.
So Usyk is essentially like a heavyweight Lomachenko.
That's why he moves so much.
It's dangerous.
That guy's a freak.
He's a freak.
He's a pleasure to watch.
Watching that guy.
I mean, he's beating guys that are so much bigger than him.
When he beat Tyson Fury, Tyson Fury was like 280 pounds.
And he's like a cruiserweight.
He was really a 200-pound guy that blew up to compete against heavyweights.
He's much smaller than those guys.
But he was so fast and so...
And just his pattern recognition, his understanding of boxing is just elite.
Like, so many levels above everybody else.
And he's 38.
Like, at 38, you're supposed to be done.
Supposed to, yeah.
No, 38 is in his fucking prime.
Amazing.
Also, clean life.
Clean living.
Like, serious Christian.
Like, very, very religious.
You know, doesn't party.
Doesn't fuck around.
You know, and just trains with, like, rigid discipline.
Yeah.
That Soviet-style discipline, the Ukrainian discipline.
Like, those guys, like, their program over there.
Like, you can see it, like, in Dmitry B. Vol and a lot of the other, like,
Soviet-style boxers.
They have, like, a very comprehensive technical program that they put their
fighters under.
There's a style.
Like, B. Vol is the best example of that style.
It's such a fucking difficult style because it's so movement-based.
And a lot of, like, American fighters were kind of rigid in their footwork and
moving forward just trying to land the big shots.
And, like, B. Vol is just moving around you all the time, popping you, and,
like, ugh.
Yeah.
Sort of like the Dagestani guys in MMA.
Same thing.
Oh, yeah.
You're not going to beat those guys because it's all they do.
Bro, they're in Muay Thai now.
There's this kid that I'm obsessed with.
He's 22 years old.
His name is Asadullah Imangazaleev.
I don't want to fuck it up.
Asadullah Imangazaleev.
He's a fucking freak, man.
He's 22 years old, and he's destroying world champions in Muay Thai.
Just killing them.
He's Dagestani?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
So the Dagestani's are taking over striking.
Two now.
Good.
Well, this guy's nuts, man.
He's so fluid, too.
It's nuts to watch him, man.
He moves like nobody else moves.
And he's real tall for the weight class, so you can't even get close to him.
He's fucking you up from the outside.
This is the guy.
I don't want to say that actually.
This guy is a fucking freak, man.
He's just doing things different than everybody else.
Wow.
And he's destroying people, just destroying everyone, everyone he fights.
He's so unusual, man.
And again, he's from a hard part of the world, man.
You know, you grow up in some fucking soft neighborhood, and your dad takes you
to karate classes.
No chance.
You got to fight this fucking dude.
This guy's fighting for his dinner.
He's just murking people.
And it's also, he comes from a culture that, like, reveres combat sports.
You know, they have, they're champions.
Guys like Islam Makachev, Khabib Nurmagomedov, like, they're legends over there.
Yeah.
You know, and everybody grows up wanting to be one of those guys.
Where was Fedor from?
He's from Russia.
Is he?
Oh, yeah, he was the first.
I loved watching him growing up, man.
He was the first.
So I used to watch him before auditions.
Really?
Yeah, there was just something about his, like, mindset where it was, like, his,
he was so even keel.
Yeah, stoic.
Yeah, it's like his heart rate didn't change or something.
Even when he won, he'd just be like, eh, and, like, sort of walk off.
Like, that's so badass.
Yeah, his expression never changed.
No.
Yeah.
He was one of the all-time greats, if not the all-time great.
He was different than everybody else.
And he was a heavyweight that could submit you.
He could knock you out.
He was fast.
He wasn't big.
I mean, he was, like, 5'11".
Very unassuming looking.
Yeah.
You wouldn't know he was the most dangerous guy in the world.
Yeah, like a little belly fat, a little, he didn't give a fuck what he looked
like.
He was all about how he could perform.
Right.
You know, and he was a part of, like, that era where MMA emerged.
And in Japan, it was so much bigger than it was in America.
During the Pride days when Fedor was running shit, there was 90,000 people in
those arenas.
Whoa.
Yeah.
They were doing, like, the Tokyo Superdome.
They were doing these gigantic arenas.
And, like, everyone was a fan in the country.
And then it all went away.
Because the Yakuza was involved.
And there was a big scandal.
And, you know, like, MMA was bigger in Japan than it was anywhere in the world.
And it just kind of, like, fizzled out.
Did you ever go to any of those in Japan?
I went to a UFC once in Japan.
We did one UFC in Japan.
And I went there.
It was really cool.
It was just, I was just really happy to be in Japan for a fight.
Because, you know, I've been such a fan of Japanese martial artists and
Japanese martial arts, period.
And, like, I have a, I mean, I have Miyamoto Musashi tattooed on my arm.
But being in there in Japan was, like, it was interesting because they were so
educated.
Like, they were really quiet while the fights were going on.
But then when something would happen, even something really technical, like
somebody passing the guard, they would go, oh.
And they would all clap.
Like, I was like, whoa, this is interesting.
Like, it was like, you could hear each corner.
Yelling instructions.
Like, you didn't hear the crowd at all.
Wow.
There's 16,000 people in there.
That's cool.
It was wild.
Yeah.
It was a completely different kind of audience.
Like, very respectful, very appreciative, and very knowledgeable.
It was cool.
Do you think if you didn't do what you did, would you rather watch, like, UFC
in person or would you watch it at home?
In person's the best.
You want to be there.
You want to feel the crowd.
But I would want to be there where I sit.
Like, I'm super spoiled.
Yeah, you've got the best seat in the house.
Yeah, I'm like, I could reach up and grab the cage.
It's right there.
Like, I'm so spoiled.
But, you know, if you're in the bleeders, if you're in, like, the nosebleeds,
you're probably better off watching it at home, honestly.
Because then you get the commentary, you get to see replays, you get to see,
you know, like, close up.
If you've got a big TV at home, you get to see everything.
I just sat close for the first time.
I went to the Paddy Gaethje fight.
Oh, did you?
It was amazing.
That was a good one.
It was amazing, dude.
But, yeah, it's definitely different hearing the sound.
Oh, yeah.
It's like a whole, when you hear, like, bone on bone, you're like, whoa.
Well, my favorite was during the pandemic.
We had fights at the UFC Apex with no crowd.
It was insane.
It was so, because we had world championship fights with no crowd.
That's crazy.
There was maybe, like, 50, 100 people in the room.
Wow.
It was, like, mostly just staff of the UFC, the trainers of the fighters, and
some of the other fighters in the audience, and some friends in the audience.
And that's it.
And the UFC Apex has a smaller ring, too, a smaller cage.
So, it's like, I think it's, like, I want to say it's 40% smaller.
It's a lot smaller.
Really?
Yeah.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, it's smaller.
How would that affect a fight?
A lot.
Practically, really?
You can't move as much.
There's not as much distance to get away.
You know, so a guy who likes to, like, move around a lot and get away from
people.
Like, I saw Francis Ngannou versus Stipe Miocic when Francis won the title in
the Apex with no crowd.
That's crazy.
And when Francis hits things, it's like hearing a baseball bat hitting a
pumpkin.
It's just whomp!
Yikes.
And you're right there.
You hear them breathing.
You hear the grunt when they get hit, you know?
Right.
You hear the coaches yelling out, hands up, hands up, move, move, move.
You know, hit them with the one.
One, two.
They're yelling out instructions.
And it's like, there's no one else there.
It's silent.
Wow.
It's amazing.
So that's the way.
Oh, that's my favorite.
Cool.
But there's something about an amazing crowd, you know?
Like, when you're watching a big world title fight, you know, like, in Vegas or
in the Madison Square Garden.
It's an incredible place.
It's just the history of the place.
You feel it when you're in Madison Square Garden.
But my favorite is the Apex.
How are you feeling about this White House card?
That's insane.
Makes me a little nervous.
I don't know if it's the best idea.
Yeah, it seems like it would open some room for some tomfoolery.
It seems like it.
Yeah.
The card is not what they wanted it to be, for sure.
They wanted it to be, like, all world titles.
But, you know, matchmakers have a very difficult task.
It's very hard to find people that aren't injured, that are, like, that are
ready at this particular time.
Because the brutal aspect of the sport is that guys are always hurt.
They're always training hurt.
They're always getting hurt.
They fight hurt.
There's always – no one – very rarely is anyone going into the octagon 100%.
Sure.
There's always something going on.
Guys are – they're dealing with staph infections in camp, and they're taking
antibiotics, and it fucks with your endurance.
And maybe they've got a muscle pull or a knee that's fucked up.
And when Francis Ngannou fought Cyril Gan, he blew his ACL out.
So he had to wrap his leg up.
And he had one leg.
And he beat him with one leg.
That's crazy.
Crazy.
Guys have fought with broken hands, you know.
Alex Pereira, he's beating guys with a broken foot.
He fights with a broken foot.
Just stoic, standing there.
Knows his foot's broken, doesn't give a fuck.
He fought with a bad knee.
His knee needed surgery.
Like, there's a fight that he fought, Yuri Prohaska, where he's on top of Yuri.
They stopped the fight.
And he does a forward roll to get off of him after he knocked on him because he
couldn't stand on his left leg.
I didn't know that.
Was that, like, a known thing while the fight was happening?
No.
Oh.
No.
He had surgery after the fight.
I remember that fight.
That's crazy.
Yeah, he had surgery after the fight.
Pereira's really big in our house because Brazil, right?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Those Brazilians, man, they love each other.
It's crazy.
They do.
My wife, she doesn't even care about MMA that much.
But if there's a Brazilian fight, she's all about it.
Oh, yeah.
Very, very proud people.
Yeah.
And it's also, like, Brazil's where it all started.
They were having MMA fights in Brazil in the 1930s.
Really?
Oh, yeah.
Elio Gracie, who's really the founder of all this shit, he's the father of,
like, the Gracie clan, the Gracie family, is, like, the greatest story in the
history of martial arts.
That one family has changed martial arts forever.
And it really changed it because of Carlos Gracie and Elio Gracie and Carlson
Gracie, these three Gracies who competed in these no-rules fights.
They didn't have time limits back then, no gloves, no nothing.
And they were fighting in giant crowds in Brazil in the 1930s, 1940s.
And they were figuring things out that nobody had figured out before.
They figured out, they took techniques from judo.
Like, judo was mostly about throws, but there was some submissions.
And so, they concentrated only on the submissions.
And they created Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
Like, jiu-jitsu, which was a Japanese martial art.
Right.
But Brazilian jiu-jitsu is far more technical than Japanese jiu-jitsu.
And even Japanese guys now train Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
I was going to say, is there any, are there purists that only do the Japanese
style still or not really?
You can't really compete.
Oh, okay.
I mean, you could, because everybody kind of knows everything now, because
Brazilian jiu-jitsu has made its way into every other sport.
Brazilian jiu-jitsu has made its way into Russian sambo, which is another
combat sport, which is also elite.
But Brazilian jiu-jitsu changed the game.
And the Gracie family changed everything forever.
And, you know, the guy who fought in the UFC, Hoist, he wasn't even the best
guy in the family.
He told everybody, my brother Hickson kills me.
Hickson was the man.
Like, Hickson was above and beyond everyone back then.
He was a guy who did yoga.
He was meditating.
He did this crazy thing with his stomach where he would do this breathing where
his stomach would suck in.
He was like a real freak.
And he was undefeated.
Like, nobody could touch him.
He would go and do these seminars.
So he'd teach a seminar and teach it to all these black belts.
And then he would roll with all of them nonstop and just tap out everybody.
Everybody.
World champions.
They'd all be like, ah, this is a bunch of hype.
And they'd go in there, ah.
They'd all get arm barred.
They'd all get leg locked.
Like, it was crazy.
He was so much better than everybody else.
And so they wanted Hoist to win because Hickson also was, like, pretty jacked.
And he was, like, really fit.
And he was really into strength and conditioning and, like I said, yoga.
He was incredibly flexible.
Like, he could stand there and do the splits and, like, hold his leg up in the
air on a balance bar.
Is he the one that wrote that book?
Yeah.
Yeah, I read that.
It's awesome.
Yeah.
And he had that documentary.
There's a great documentary called Choke.
Phenomenal documentary about his rise through Japan Valley Tudo.
And then he was the guy that he based the first Pride event on.
Oh, okay.
He was the champion of the first Pride event.
He was the guy that the whole thing was based on because he was huge in Japan.
I mean, he was a superstar in Japan.
But he was the champion of the family.
And they wanted Hoist to do it because Hoist was, like, smaller and he would
show that jujitsu was about technique.
That makes sense.
And the plan was, if Hoist ever got beat, throw in Hickson.
Oh, okay.
And everybody's fucked.
But Hickson, like, his brother Horian started the UFC and Horian and Hickson
had friction and Horian really couldn't control Hickson.
And so they were like, let's put Hoist in and if we need to call on Hickson, we'll
call the boogeyman.
He was the boogeyman.
Remember the guy, I think it was UFC one, who had the one glove, the one boxing
glove?
Yeah, Art Jemerson.
Yeah.
What was that about?
Well, I think he decided he wanted to be able to hold on to people and he
wanted to punch him with his right hand.
Weird tactic.
Well, no one knew what the fuck they were doing back then.
It's like Michael Jackson, dude.
Everybody had this idea of what fighting was and they didn't really know until
they got taken down.
Oh, there he is.
Oh, it was his left hand.
So that's interesting.
So I guess he wanted to pop him with a jab.
Hoist just fucking put it to that guy.
Amazing.
But Hoist was doing something that nobody had seen before.
And that one event when he was doing that to people, it changed everything.
It changed my opinion of martial arts.
I immediately started taking jujitsu.
I was like, oh my God.
You were in taekwondo?
I started in taekwondo and then I did kickboxing for a while.
And then as soon as I saw the UFC, I immediately started taking jujitsu.
I was like, oh God.
And then when I started taking it, I was so cocky.
I was like, I know how to fight.
And then I took classes and was just getting manhandled and mauled and tapped
left and right.
I was like, oh my God, I'm a beginner.
This is so humiliating.
And I was like, I got to get good at this.
I couldn't believe how helpless I was.
I was running around thinking I was a badass and I was just a fool.
Yeah.
I'll humble you real quick.
Oh, so humbling.
I've gone through that.
I did it for maybe a couple months.
And I never made it past the hump.
I should probably try again.
Get a trainer.
Get a guy who can do drills with you.
That's really huge.
If you can get someone to do drills with you and just go over on a one-on-one
basis, the finer aspects of it, and just do drills and drills and drills over
and over again, and then slowly start working your way into group classes.
Yeah.
That's the key.
I think the thing is with, you know, if you go to a boxing class, Muay Thai
class, you get to get some frustration out.
Right.
Because you're hitting something and it kind of feels good on your drive home.
You feel like, I just beat the shit out of that bag, you know.
Yeah.
But then you do, you roll with somebody who's really good and you go home and
you're more frustrated.
But the first time you tap someone, it's like, it's such a revelation.
You're like, oh my God, I got an arm bar.
Oh my God, I got a triangle.
Like the first time you actually catch someone something and they tap, I'll
never forget that feeling.
I was like, wow.
And then you have to just trust the process.
Trust the process of showing up and realizing it is a tall mountain to climb.
You're not going to get there quick.
It's a weird thing to do with your body.
Your body doesn't know what to do with it.
That's why drilling is so important.
When you're drilling, you're going over the motions without resistance.
So your body sort of gets programmed how to switch your hips and how to catch
the arm and how to pull your body back and secure it with your legs and all the
different things that you have to do.
Where if you're doing just live sparring all the time, you're not going to
learn because you're all panicking and tight.
You got to be able to like train your body to move a certain way.
So it becomes automatic.
And is there a way to do it where you can stay relatively injury-free while you're
learning?
Or is it like that's just part of the...
It's kind of part of it.
Yeah, I was going to say.
It's kind of part of it.
Yeah.
Everybody just sort of assumes you're going to eventually get hurt in one way
or another.
You're going to fuck your knee up or fuck your ankle up or whatever.
Right.
But the best way is to find good training partners.
Don't train with any wild people because some people just jank on things.
Those are dangerous.
The really dangerous people are like blue belts who are really strong, who are
just like really spaz out on you.
Sure.
Kind of avoid those folks because they could blow your knee out accidentally.
Yeah.
You know, I've seen that a lot.
Like I know people that are really good that won't roll with people that are spazes.
They're like, I'm not.
I definitely ran into a couple of the guys that are like, they just wanted to
choke out Casey Dutton.
Of course.
I was like, come on, man.
I just started.
Of course.
I used to get that when I was on Fear Factor.
A lot of guys want to choke out the Fear Factor guy.
Yeah.
But, you know, that's just part of the fun.
Like Bourdain.
Like he was a 58-year-old white belt.
Nuts.
Wow.
If that guy did it, fucking kind of anybody can do it.
What belt did he get to?
He might have got to purple.
He definitely got to blue.
I don't know if he got to purple.
But he won tournaments.
Wow.
He competed in tournaments, you know?
And I remember when he first started doing it, he was like, I'd really like to
compete in some age-appropriate tournaments.
I was trying to talk him out of it.
I was like, don't.
You get hurt, man.
We need you out there.
Yeah.
But he was obsessed.
If he could do it, like that just goes to show you a guy with no athletic
experience.
Not a worker.
Didn't train.
Didn't do any working out.
Wasn't a runner.
Didn't lift weights.
Nothing.
And then at 58, he's like, all right, I'm going to get good at this.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Good for him, man.
That's awesome.
Well, he was a guy that had had substance abuse problems in his past.
And the thing about being an addict is if you can focus whatever that thing is
and get addicted to something really good, you can really excel.
Sure.
For whatever weird reason.
Also, there's a flip side.
So people that are addicted to a sport or a thing and they get really good at a
thing and then they become drug addicts, that same thing can kind of hijack
your brain and then all you're doing is like chasing meth all day.
Right.
I've seen that happen, too.
For sure.
For sure.
For sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I should get back into it.
It's a fun thing to do.
Yeah, why not?
It's good for your head, too, because it's the hardest thing you'll ever do.
It's so hard because you're essentially what you're the game you're playing is
I kill you or you kill me.
Right.
So when a guy gets your back and gets your rear neck and choking, you tap, you're
essentially saying you just killed me.
Thank you for not killing me.
I give up.
And then when you do it to him, he's saying that to you.
Yeah.
So it's so hard that the rest of your life is easy.
Right.
Everything else becomes easy.
All the stress of fame and success and Hollywood and the bullshit, it's nothing
compared to some dude mounting you trying to get in your ego.
You're trapped in an arm triangle, trying to get your hand down to protect
yourself.
It's way harder.
And that makes the rest of your life easier.
If you can choose what's hard in your life, you'll be way better off.
Find a thing that's way more difficult on your mind, way more difficult on your
body, way more difficult on your spirit than this other thing that you do.
So it'll make that other thing easier to tolerate.
Yeah.
And stay humble, too.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Super humble.
You're not going to think you're cool for being able to say some lines.
Some people get.
Well, that's the other thing, right?
You get really intoxicated with everybody kissing your ass.
Oh, yeah.
Easy, easy trap.
We've all seen that.
We've all seen actors are just like inflated.
Oh, for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm a little blessed in the way that I've never thought I was very great at
anything.
I enjoy doing the things, but I've never, you know, like never really, I'm
never good enough for myself, kind of hard on myself a little bit, but I've
seen it for sure.
If you're waiting for someone else to validate you, once they do, you're
screwed.
Right.
Because you're going to believe it.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Well, there's the problem of being a star is that like all these people need
you and the world, their world of the show revolves around you.
Yeah.
So they're all like, you know, kind of kissing your ass and reverent towards
you.
It's like, it's, it's a little weird.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's new for me too.
You know, I'd, I'd never been anything that was like a massive hit before
Yellowstone.
And now at this new show, now it's a hit and I'm the number one on the call
sheet, which is very new.
And so I'm like a, you know, I'm an asset to them in a different way.
So it'd be interesting navigating that.
They'll probably try to talk you out of doing Jiu-Jitsu.
Yeah.
I probably have to sign something that I won't, you know, I'm not allowed to
like ski.
There's a lot of things because of the insurance.
Yeah.
Like if I get hurt and production has to shut down, it's a lot of money for
them.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
I don't know if that's one of them though, but it's like, yeah, skiing.
Don't ask.
It's funny because horseback riding usually is and I have to do that for the
show.
That's the most dangerous horseback riding scares the shit out of me.
Dude.
It's me too.
It was not, it didn't come natural.
That's not like a thing that I'm naturally good at or had done before Yellowstone.
My oldest daughter did it for a little bit in California and she fell a couple
of times.
And one time she hurt her wrist really bad and I was like, please stop.
Don't do this.
Cause she was doing those things where you'd like jump over stuff.
Oh, that's so dangerous.
Cause they stop just shy of that thing and you go flying.
Right.
Yeah.
Her friend, she had a good friend that was really into it and they started
doing it together.
And I was like, please don't.
And she fell a couple of times and she was okay.
But one time she really hurt her wrist and I was like, please stop.
Because your wrist, they can fix your neck.
You get like Christopher Reeves, you know?
Oh, I think about Christopher Reeves every time I get on a horse.
I believe it.
I wish I didn't.
That was what he did, right?
He was doing the jumping thing, right?
Was it?
I believe so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just don't, I don't, yeah, I don't get it.
Do you ride motorcycles?
Nope.
No, I don't either.
Almost did.
Almost did.
We're taking lessons.
Me and a couple of the other guys that worked on the crew at Fear Factor, we
all took motorcycle
lessons together.
We were all talking about it.
And so we took motorcycle safety courses, you know, you're basically riding
like, it's
kind of like a dirt bike and they teach you how to, you know, shift and all
this stuff.
And I kind of got into it.
I was like, ooh, this is really fun.
And then three of my friends had motorcycle accidents, like within a short time
period.
One of them wiped out, fucked up his shoulder.
The other one got hit by a car, broke his leg.
And then the other one was actually someone saw someone.
It wasn't an actual motorcycle accident.
He was there when some guy got rear-ended by a car that wasn't paying attention,
just
plowed into him and sent him flying and fucked this guy up.
And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm not doing that.
I had a bike for a couple months in LA and I went on a ride and, you know, it's
one of
those things.
You, you have to have the bug.
You're like, either have it or you don't.
I was trying to get the bug.
I, cause I wanted that to be a part of my identity.
You know what I mean?
I wanted to be a guy who rode motorcycles.
So I rode up the Pacific coast highway and I was kind of riding up through like
Ojai and
going around this corner, you know, this sort of like cliff side and that thing
where if
you stare at something, that's where you're going to go.
And I just kind of was like zoned out and I almost ate shit right into the side
of this
cliff.
And I was alone.
Like if I would have done it, it would have been forever until anyone figured
out like
what had happened to me, you know, and I kind of, it was a really, really close
call.
And I got off the bike and I kind of sat there for a minute and I was like,
yeah, I don't
love it enough to die this way.
You know what I mean?
I don't need this in my life and I never, never did it again.
I have friends that have never had a problem.
I have friends that ride bikes and have never had a problem.
I think if I lived in Montana, I might do it.
Cause there's just not that much traffic.
No, but my 70 year old neighbor just hit a deer.
Oh, seven years old on his like, you know, one of the BMW like adventure bikes.
And he was going 70 on the highway.
Yeah.
He's, and he's fine, dude.
This guy's a tank, but how old was he?
70.
Whoa.
Killed the deer.
He had road rash everywhere.
And he was kind of like, you know, on the couch for a few weeks.
And he's fine.
Dude, he is a tank.
This guy, they make them different out there, dude.
He's my next door neighbor.
He's amazing.
Shout out, Steve.
Wow.
He, uh, he's got a range in his backyard to 500 yards.
Oh, wow.
And has every firearm imaginable and things you didn't even know they made.
And so anytime I can just, you know, ride over there in the side by side, we
grab a few
and go down and shoot in the back.
Oh, that's nice.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You find people like that in Montana.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
He's the real deal.
Wow.
But 70 years old hitting a deer is crazy on a bike.
Yeah.
Killed the deer.
And he, uh, about a month later, he was all right.
He was back on the bike.
Oh boy.
Geez.
I've seen some videos of guys hitting deer.
Like you see like from their camera, and you see this thing leap in front of
the road,
then.
Yeah.
And you just see.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Deers, they're everywhere out here, man.
When I'm driving home, I drive slow.
There's like a certain road near my house where they just pop out all the
suicidal deer.
Yeah.
Just pop out, especially like around the rut where the, the, the bucks are
chasing the
does and they're not chasing straight.
They just, they're just out there like fucking pussy hungry, standing in the
road, staring
at you.
I love explaining to people how the rut works because it works just like humans.
Like the only time they're dumb enough that you're going to get one is when
they're horny.
Right.
You know, but for them, it's once a year, which is way crazier than us.
Can you imagine if it all came on?
Bro, if humans had a rut, I would go on vacation during that time.
I'm like, I'm hiding.
I'm not, I don't want to be anywhere near.
It would probably be like murders, car accidents.
Lock me in jail for that month or whatever.
Exactly.
Like get a bunker.
Get a bunker and lock down with Netflix for a month.
Fuck that.
There is no way, man.
That would be crazy.
Imagine if the whole world had their rut at the same time.
Oh my God.
That's a good movie idea.
It is a good movie idea, right?
That's actually a great movie idea.
Just call it the rut.
Yeah.
Like human beings evolve or maybe there's like genetic engineering because they
decide that
there's overpopulation and the solution to it is only have people breed at a
certain
time.
And also like keep people from being distracted all the time.
Because like how many people are on dating apps and how many people are like,
you know,
going to bars and trying to find someone.
It's like, it's a huge waste of your time.
Oh my God.
My twenties and thirties were just blown because of it.
It's all I thought about.
Massive.
Massive waste of your time.
If there was like a solution to that, the solution would be like, but everyone's
only going to
breed only during November.
Maybe it's the best thing ever.
It'd be great if there was like a switch you could flip, you know, like a
little boy,
you'd like flip it and then go out and figure it out.
And then the rest of the year, like, you don't even care about girls.
Because so productive men.
Bucks just walk by a female doe in like, you know, fucking June.
They don't give a shit about them.
And they don't have their antlers.
So they look the same.
Right.
You know what I mean?
They lose their masculinity.
Right.
Right.
Right.
They get it back pretty quick.
Those fucking things grow quick.
It's like they fall off within a month or two.
They start growing nubs.
Isn't it the fastest growing bone material on the planet?
I think elk is.
Because that's nuts.
I mean, like you look at like a 400 inch elk, like some of those antlers that
are out there.
Imagine that that grows in a couple of months.
It's bone.
It's crazy.
And they fight to the death with it.
Crazy.
Like we find elk that have been killed by other elk.
It happens all the time.
Have you hunted in Montana?
Yeah.
Not elk.
I've hunted mule deer in Montana and pheasant the time I went with Bourdain.
I've never done elk until I moved up there.
I started hunting whitetail when I was like 10.
Like really young.
Because we have big whitetail in Ohio.
And I thought hunting elk would be similar.
And boy, was I mistaken.
Bro, it is.
Were you bow hunting or rifle hunting?
I've done both.
But my first was a bow hunt.
And we went out there.
We were camping out there.
Me and I just made friends with the contractor that built my house in Montana.
And he took me.
We went public land around Dillon, Montana.
And we went for a week and I had to tap out day four.
Like I couldn't.
My legs stopped working.
I was like, I didn't know I had.
It was like this.
So the next year I went, I was like prepared for it.
But I didn't know, man.
You really got to go for it.
Oh, you got to get in shape.
Yeah.
I do a lot of shit before September.
I do.
I have this crazy routine that I do on an airdyne bike.
I do these Tabatas on an airdyne bike where you sprint for 20 seconds.
Oh, yeah.
You rest for 10.
You sprint for 20 seconds.
The worst.
And all I'm doing is thinking about getting over a hill.
Getting over a hill to get a shot.
I mean, and then I do like box step ups.
I do all these different things with weighted vests and farmer's carries with
fucking heavy
kettlebells.
All I'm doing is just trying to condition my legs.
Yeah.
You have to like those mountains are brutal.
There's no mountains here for me to practice on.
Right.
But in California, I used to run hills with my dog.
Yeah.
And you're at elevation, which makes it even harder.
Oh, yeah.
And a weird thing people wouldn't expect is like just, you know, makes it even
worse.
You get up in the morning, it's zero degrees.
Middle of the day, it's 50, 60.
And you're hiking all day.
So it's like, how do you dress for that?
You have to dress to be cold.
Yeah.
Like once you start walking, you have to be cold.
Yeah.
Like you got to get down to your base layer and walk cold.
And then if you ever have to stop, then you put it on.
And the other key, merino wool.
That's the key.
Because wool is different than cotton.
If your cotton gets wet and then you're sweaty and then you get cold, you're
fucked.
Right.
But wool's not like that.
Merino wool is the best.
Yeah.
Because like if you have especially a base layer, because when you're sweating,
it kind of keeps
you a little cool.
And then if you get cold, it doesn't feel cold.
Yeah.
Because it's not synthetic.
It's organic.
Makes sense.
Yeah.
It's a weird fiber.
We used to walk to the deer stand kind of in half of our stuff, keep the other
half
in a pack.
And then like once I got in the tree stand, I'd put everything else on so that
you wouldn't,
you know, the sweat wouldn't freeze to you.
That's hard.
Deer hunting in a tree stand is fucking hard.
It's like a silent retreat and you're freezing.
Yeah.
At the same time.
And you're sitting up there waiting for a deer to walk by.
And then you're so cold that when a deer walks by, you go to pull your bow back.
You're like, oh, Jesus.
Yeah.
Like, why am I so weak?
Yeah.
Like you could barely pull your bow back when you're up in the tree.
Yeah.
But nothing, I mean, no, no challenge whatsoever compared to elk hunting.
No.
That was my, blew my mind how hard that was.
And the guy I went with, you know, he grew up in Montana.
He's like a mountain goat.
I just like couldn't keep up with this guy, man.
I'm like, this isn't, how do you do this?
Just constant all day long.
You can't just get out of your, off your couch and go elk hunting in the
mountains.
You can't do it.
No, you got to get in shape.
No, like my friend Cam Haynes.
That's why he started running.
He became an ultra runner.
Yeah.
He's doing like 250 miles stuff, right?
Yeah.
He does like these three day runs.
He tried to get you into that.
Have you done any of that?
No chance.
I have one knee that sucks.
I have one knee that I fucked up in martial arts.
It's missing meniscus.
And I cracked it skiing too.
I wiped out skiing, got a fracture at the top of my tibia.
So it's like, it's, if I started running, it would get beat up real bad.
Right.
But I do, there's plenty of conditioning you could do without running, you know,
but it's
that the pounding of running, it's not good for my knee.
There's something so amazing though about getting to that first thing in the
morning when the
sun's coming up and you're glassing.
Mm-hmm.
And you're just like, this is what I always wanted hunting to be like.
Yeah.
It's the real thing.
Yeah.
It's like, this is what it's supposed to feel like.
You're so far out there, you know?
I didn't get to go the last couple of years.
My wife was having our baby two years ago, so I wasn't allowed to be in the
woods with
no service.
And then last year I was shooting the show, but this year I'm going to be able
to go.
I got a good spot.
And even if I'm shooting the show, it's like, it's right there.
Well, they have phones now that have satellite service.
I think you get, is that, does T-Mobile have that now where you can get Starlink
on your,
on your phone?
I know they're doing that soon.
And you know, you can text message with iPhones.
You can, I got done that in the middle of the woods.
And you know what the best thing is, man?
When we were in Utah last year, the last two years, I've had a Starlink mini.
It is the shit.
It's like the size of an iPad.
You just lay it down on the ground.
You use the app and the Starlink app will tell you which way to point it to.
And you get high-speed internet.
I have one for when we shoot.
It's incredible.
Because we're in the middle of nowhere.
It's so awesome.
It's the best.
It's so good.
You get, you can, here it is, T-satellite.
Yeah.
That's the shit, man.
Yeah.
So you can, can you make phone calls or is it just internet?
It's phone calls too, right?
Texting and select satellite-ready apps.
Okay, just texting.
Satellite servers, including text to 911, may be delayed, limited, or unavailable.
So you can just text and some satellite-ready apps right now.
So that's like everywhere.
That's cool.
Yeah.
So eventually they'll have, it'll be like Starlink will be connected to your
phone and you'll
be able to get high-speed internet everywhere in the world.
If we don't have World War 3.
Yeah.
Bro, blow everybody up.
I did.
But there's the elk hunting thing that the, the thing that makes it all the
more exciting
is like, they're moving around.
You got to sneak up in on them.
You're playing the wind.
And then the sound they make when they're screaming.
Bro.
And you hear it.
You're like, if you never knew what that was, you would think there's demons in
the woods.
Yeah.
Demons are like T-Rex.
Right.
It's crazy.
The sound is so incredible.
It's so incredible.
And it's so hard to do.
It's like, that to me is one of the things that I love like every year because
everything
goes away.
It's so difficult.
It's so difficult to get in shape for it.
So difficult to manage your way into the mountains and, and to be in shape, to
be able
to do it day after day.
And then to be able to pull off a shot, you know, like, you know, like you have
this brief
moment, the thing's 65 yards away and you draw back and trying to settle your
pin.
And you could have done all of that just to like mess it up.
Yeah.
One little tiny.
Yeah.
And it happens all the time.
But when you're successful, oh my God, it's the greatest feeling of all time.
And then when you're eating it and then you're, you're, you know, you're at
home and you're
on the barbecue grilling these elk steaks.
Like, I can't wait to do this again.
Yeah.
It's so exciting.
Yeah.
And it's just, but it's the being out there.
It's like a vitamin.
It's like a vitamin that you didn't know you needed.
Yeah.
It's like your whole body's like, oh, this is so much better than regular life.
You can't be mentally unwell.
No.
It's like impossible.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
You just feel so much better.
The air is better.
You know, it's like, and you're more focused.
You're not distracted and you just, you feel alive.
Yeah.
And then it's also the majesty of nature.
You're just around these trees and mountains and you're catching all these
animals that
are out there.
And, you know, you see eagles flying overhead.
The best.
You're like, God.
And like day three, you're like, I think I'm just going to move out here.
I'm just going to do this.
And then you go back to real life and you're like, oh, yeah.
I think that all the time.
I think that all the time that I like to live in the mountains.
My wife is not down with it, but I'd love it.
Yeah.
I might get a place somewhere one day in the mountains, just to retreat, just
to be able
to just disconnect, shut off for a while.
I think that's probably a good idea.
I love it.
I wonder though, now that I have a kid, like we're going to have to start
thinking about,
you know, school for him and stuff.
And there's really not, I don't know if, I don't, you know, once we get there,
we'll figure that out, but we're going to probably have to get somewhere closer
to some
people.
Doesn't Bozeman have good schools?
Where are you, what are you near?
What's the town you're near?
I'm about an hour South of Missoula.
So I fly to Missoula to go home.
Missoula has good schools, right?
Yeah.
But I'd have to move closer to Missoula.
And at that point, I'm like, why don't I just, you know, move to a city, I
guess, you
know?
Ew.
I know.
I think the move might be getting somewhere, you know, a little more populated
and then
keeping like a cabin in Montana, like you were talking about, you know,
and then taking him out there whenever we can.
That'd probably be the thing.
Do you have a place in your house where you record?
Do you have like a little recording studio or anything?
Yeah.
Like just for me to record demos, to send to people to actually record, just to
be like,
this is something I've been working on or, you know, kind of a setup, like one
of these
and a computer.
But yeah, I do a lot of writing up there.
It's a great place to write songs.
How do you write?
Do you write on paper or do you just start strumming and singing?
It's different every time.
Sometimes I'll have like a, it'll, it'll be a melody.
It'll be a guitar riff.
It could be like a lyrical idea, some sort of hook, you know, it comes in a lot
of different
ways.
And then sometimes I'll finish something on my own.
Sometimes I'll do a Nashville trip and sit with some other writers that I like.
And, you know, we'll kind of like bang it out together.
And that's the coolest part of the process, man.
There's something about making something out of absolutely nothing.
It's like addicting, you know?
Yeah.
It's really cool.
Yeah.
Jokes are similar in a way I bet.
I've never really been a songwriter, but I'm guessing.
So it's like creating something out of, like out of your mind.
Yeah.
All of a sudden it's a thing and then you're performing it in front of people.
And it's like, I've heard you talk about this and any good creative person talk
about
this, but like it comes to you.
Yeah.
You can't really take credit for a good idea.
Yeah, exactly.
I'll just be driving and be like, whoa, that's, where'd that come from?
Like whatever that is, give me more of it.
Yeah.
I love it, you know?
I was talking to Michael Pollan about that yesterday.
We were talking about consciousness and we were talking about how it just seems
like you're
not doing it.
It's just coming out of the ether.
You know, it's just like, and you just have to show up and receive it.
And if you show up enough and you, you know, pay homage to the muse and sit
there, you ever
read War of Art, Steven Pressfield book?
I got a box of copies.
I'll give you a copy of it out there.
He always gets, well, I bought a box of copies.
I bought a bunch of them and I used to hand them out to comedians and artists
when I was
on the show.
I was like, well, just listen to me.
You got to read it.
It's a really small book.
It's easy, but it's one of the best books ever about creativity.
And it essentially just, he tells you if you treat it like there is a muse,
like there
is a God, a goddess that will give you ideas.
As long as you pay respect to the muse, you have to show up on time every day,
sit there
and do it.
And some days you get nothing, but you just got to keep showing up, keep
showing up and
trust in that process.
And eventually you're like, oh my God, this idea is so good.
Yeah.
Where did it come from?
That makes sense.
Where did it come from?
Yeah.
When I'm, when I'm, when I'm in a really good spot, sort of mentally,
emotionally, spiritually
taking care of myself, sleeping, I get more of those.
Yeah.
And I know there's this like mysticism around like people who like, you know,
Ernest Thompson
or someone like that, who just kind of spent a lot of time being fucked up and
they still
get it.
That never worked out really well for me.
I've tried it.
Trust me.
It's not great.
With, with those guys, they're trying to get out of their own head, you know,
they're
just trying to get blasted so they could just like, just release.
Themselves from their life and then just obliterated, just start writing.
Yeah.
And then the muse starts talking to them.
Interesting.
Yeah.
But Hemingway or there's a lot of guys like, oh yeah.
Had to be sort of a little messed up.
Stephen King.
To do the thing.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
His book on writing is fantastic too.
It's called on writing.
Stephen King.
I read that one.
Yeah.
It's great.
Right.
Really good.
He was obliterated.
Like most of his great work, most of the great stuff out of his fucking mind on
drugs
and alcohol.
And some of those guys, like once they stop doing it, they lose the thing.
And I don't know if you can name names, but like there's some, there's some
artists I love
that they kind of got clean.
Yep.
And you're like, where'd the thing go?
Yeah.
Which is unfortunate, you know?
Yeah.
It happens with comics too.
Does it?
Some of them though get better.
Like Dave Attell got way better when he quit drinking.
It's interesting.
It doesn't always, it doesn't have to be that.
But for a lot of them, like that crutch, the, whatever it is that connects them
to the creativity,
once they eliminate that part and try to keep, try to stay alive essentially,
like Stephen
King was like killing himself, but his later work is just not comparable.
What's your process like writing jokes?
Like how does that start for you?
Like how do you?
It, it, it is a, it's, there's some ideas that just come to me out of the
middle of nowhere.
Like I'll be just hanging out and, and then I have an idea or I'm driving in my
car and
I have an idea and I just have to write it down.
And then a lot of it is just sitting down with a computer, just sitting down
and like,
what am I writing about?
I'm writing about immigration.
Okay.
Let me fucking, and it, I write an essay form.
So I don't try to write like a standup comedy joke, which I've tried before,
but that's
never works.
But what does work is if I lose myself in just ruminating on an idea and just
explore
it from every different angle.
And then I'll find one paragraph.
I might write 2000 words and I'll find one paragraph.
I'm like, that's it.
And I'll take that out and I'll put it in there and I'll try to introduce it on
stage.
And then I try to figure out how to segue into it.
And then I try to figure out how to expand on it.
And then I'll take that one thing and then I'll stare at that one paragraph and
go, what
else?
Like, what else?
What's the other angle?
Like, what, what if I was not like that?
What, what, how do I feel about if I was on the other side of that?
What if I'm the person that's going through this?
And what if I'm this and that?
And then I'll try to just try that.
And it's, it's like, I always describe as like, you're trying to, you're trying
to build
a mountain, one layer of paint at a time.
And it's a long and brute, and then sometimes it's not some jokes just come to
you in full
form.
Oh, wow.
Like the way I wrote it is the way I say it is perfect.
Huh.
But that's, you can't count on that either.
Right.
And again, I don't think they're mine.
You know, they're just coming from somewhere.
Yeah.
The key is just showing up.
That's the key.
The key is like sitting in front of that fucking computer or some guys don't
like a computer.
They want a notepad, they want pen and paper.
They like, they like it better that way.
And I get it.
But for me, I can type.
Like, I don't have to look at the keys.
I can touch type.
So for me, I can write a word out as fast as I'm thinking it, which is way
better for
me than writing down because I write slower than I type.
And so I want to be able to get it all out.
I want to, to me, it's like, it doesn't, and then I write it on paper
eventually.
But when I first write it, I want to write it down on a computer because I can
capture
it quicker.
Yeah.
And you can cut and paste and move things to another file and start fresh and
like explore
it again.
This last album I did, we tried a really different process than I'd done before.
Usually you go into a studio, you know, there's a lot of money behind it.
You got a big producer who has, you know, you're taking up their time.
You have everything ready to go.
But, um, on this new one, we did everything.
There's only two songs I'd had already written and eight out of the 10 songs we
wrote either
the day of or the night before in the studio, because I wanted to make
something as personal
as possible because, you know, the subject matter is stuff where I'm like, if
this is
gimmicky or, or overthought, it's not, then I'm, I'm sort of trying to like
capitalize on
grief or things I'm talking about, so I want to go in and just be as open as
possible and
just get what we get and just try to, you know, tell the truth, which is, you
know, that's
the goal of country really, or it used to be.
And so, yeah, we would, um, we would cut and then in the night after we'd cut,
we'd sit
and try to write the song for the next day.
And if we didn't get it, we'd show up early the next day and try to write the
song for
that day.
And it was an amazing process.
We called it the pressure cooker because it was just like, you better get
something because
you're on the clock and man, it was, it was, um, I don't, I doubt I'll ever do
that again,
but what a like cathartic, amazing process.
Like there, cause usually you'll write a song, you'll have a demo for it.
Some, something where you just sit down and play guitar into your phone or
something.
So you'll remember the melody, remember the chords and you listen to it so much
that you
get sick of it before you've ever even cut it.
And with this, there was never a demo.
There was never, it was straight from, you know, heart, brain tape.
Like it was, it was pretty special.
I think there's something to be said for pressure like that where it forces you,
it forces you
to come up with something.
Yeah.
The pressure cooker, man.
We just, we had to, you know, it was, it was amazing.
Yeah.
It just like forces your synapses to fire.
Yeah.
There's something to be said for that.
Like there's, that's the thing about comedy too, when you, when you have a new
bit, like
part of the thing is like, take that bit when it's not really done yet and just
throw it
out there in front of a crowd and find the beats, find where it is.
And sometimes in front of a crowd, as you're saying it, you'll have a new idea.
Like, what the fuck is this?
Like, why are we doing?
And then that'll be the biggest part of the joke.
Like everybody will laugh harder at that part than anything else.
And it just comes to you because you're under pressure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's something about, there's something about forcing your brain to do
things.
Like forcing your, like you just like, you like, you have to do it.
Like you can't just dilly dally, no procrastination.
It's right there, right now.
Yeah.
Let's go.
Yeah.
I mean, cause you're, you're directly connected to whatever the thing is.
Yeah.
It's a, it's like a flow state.
And then there's stuff that just comes to me.
Like John Mellencamp told me he wrote, hurt so good in the shower.
Really?
It was just in the shower.
Come on, babe, you make it hurt so good.
And he's like, it was done.
Best shower ever.
Crazy.
Sometimes love don't feel like it should.
Watched his armpits.
It was cool.
It was an interesting guy to talk to, man.
Fucking dude just chain smokes.
He's in his seventies.
Just chain smoking.
He was so happy he could smoke in here.
And I was like, you're not going to quit that ever?
He's like, this is what he said.
He goes, find something you love and let it kill you.
Yeah.
I don't know if I'll, that one kill me.
That's a rough, that's a rough death, dude.
That's a rough death, man.
Yeah.
I'm a, I've, I've dealt with smoking for some time.
Yeah.
I always promised my wife that I would quit when we had our kid.
And we're almost there.
We're getting close.
You got the nicotine pouches.
I got the Zip.
Do those help?
They do help.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's a different delivery thing.
When I have a drink though, it's, it's like, I can't do one without the other.
To quit smoking, I'm going to have to quit drinking.
Really?
Have to.
Wow.
I just can't imagine one without the other.
It's like a package deal for me.
But I'm okay to quit drinking at some point.
You've quit, right?
Yeah.
I quit and then started again.
Oh really?
Yeah.
I'm back.
Nice.
I quit for like eight months.
I didn't miss it.
But then when I had a couple glasses of wine with dinner, I was like, ooh, I
like this.
This is nice.
Yeah.
I kind of missed it.
How was that first sort of hangover?
Have you?
I didn't get hungover.
I haven't gotten drunk.
Oh good.
I haven't gotten hungover since.
Nice.
And I've only been drinking again.
And even when I do, it's rare.
Like I don't drink every night I go on stage.
I might have like a drink before I go on stage.
Or I'll have a drink with dinner or maybe a second glass of wine.
But that's it.
I haven't been drunk.
That's perfect.
Yeah.
The getting drunk is the problem.
Yeah.
And the real problem with me was like, I was, I own this comedy club and I was
with my friends
and they're all animals and they're all just like, let's do shots.
And we'd go downstairs to Mitzi's bar and we'd be doing shots together and we'd
have so
much fucking fun.
And then I'd wake up in the morning to work out and be like, oh fuck.
And I was just hurting.
So I'd be guzzling water and electrolytes and I'd get in the cold plunge and it
was just,
it was just this struggle to try to get back to normal.
Yeah.
And I'm like, I hate that.
I don't like that.
Yeah.
But I don't feel that with a glass of wine.
I have a glass of wine or two and I feel great the next day.
It doesn't bother me at all.
As long as I drink enough water, take electrolytes, get a good night's sleep.
I feel totally normal in the morning.
That's good.
Getting drunk is the problem.
It is fun though.
It's the best.
Getting drunk is so much fun.
Getting drunk with buddies.
Oh, the best.
It's the best.
One of my favorite things is like going to a bar in the middle of the day and
meeting everyone
at the bar and just drinking, you know, even if they're strangers or at the
airport bar
or whatever and just like getting to know people I would never have talked to
to begin with
because why would we talk?
Right.
I love that.
But again, I'm 42 now and the hangovers are starting to really smart, you know,
so it's
not, it's not really worth the price of admission anymore.
It's, it's not worth it when you get aware of your body, especially if you're a
person
like, you know, I work out all the time and I'm 58 now.
So as you get older, it's like most people at 58 are half dead.
They're kind of falling apart and I've managed to stay healthy and fit and I
don't want to
fuck that up just for booze.
But, you know, like I said, it's, it's hard when you're with buddies and they
want to do
shots.
Like Shane Gillis is the worst.
He's the devil.
He's the devil.
He's the devil.
He's like, come on, we're doing shots.
Fuck.
How do you, how can you not get drunk with that guy?
He's like the most fun ever.
And you're having so much fun when you, when you're drinking with him, it is
just like
your face is red.
You can't breathe.
You, everyone's laughing.
You're fucking crying.
You're crying, laughing.
And it's just like, you call each other the next day.
Like, how you feeling?
Oh my God, I'm dead.
Like there's a lot of times where we went out drinking and we, we have a
gym here and you know, we'd have these comedian workouts the next day and he'd
be like, dude,
I can't make it.
I'm like, come on pussy.
You made me drink last night, but he's just, he's the life of the fucking party,
man.
And it's just, it's fun, but it's, it just, it comes at a cost.
That cost is rough, man.
Especially with the kid now and him being the age he is.
It's just, I, nothing makes you feel like a bigger piece of shit than being
hung over
in front of your baby.
Right.
And you're just like, sorry, dude.
Right.
I'm your dad.
I'm sorry.
Right.
Your kids want to play.
And you're like, let me just sit here.
Yeah.
Let me just sit here.
It's not all right.
You know, you can mitigate a lot of that stuff though.
Glutathione is a really good way to mitigate a lot of it.
Glutathione actually helps your body process alcohol way quicker.
So there's a lot of strategies if you're a drunk.
Glutathione.
A lot of workarounds.
Yeah, liposomal glutathione in high doses is really good.
Electrolytes are huge.
Like a lot of the hangover feeling.
There's two things that are going on.
One is, that's why they say like hair of the dog that bit you.
Because you're actually craving more alcohol.
That's why people like Bloody Marys the day after they're hung over.
That's not a great strategy, but it really does do a little something.
But electrolytes are huge.
Because another part of it is you're just dehydrated.
Like your brain is dried out.
It's a dried out sponge because you're out getting hammered the night before.
Yeah.
So you got to drink a lot of water.
Drink a lot of...
A buddy of mine drank with Jean-Claude Van Damme once.
And he said it was nuts.
He goes, he's so disciplined.
He said the dude had a gallon of water with him.
Like a jug of water.
Like people take to the gym.
And with every shot he would take, he would fucking chug water.
And he just was just super concerned with keeping his body hydrated.
While he was boozing.
Gotta do what you gotta do, man.
I was like, credit to him.
Yeah.
But this is the way to go.
He goes, I never saw anybody do that before.
I'm like, well, look at the guy.
Yeah.
Kind of makes sense.
Yeah.
You know, it's like...
Have you interviewed him in here?
No.
Oh.
No.
That'd be a good one.
That'd be fun.
He's kind of crazy.
He keeps talking about having a fight and coming back.
Oh, damn.
Bro, you're like 70.
Yeah.
No.
Don't do that.
I think he's just a little nuts.
He's also...
He's famously indulged in the Colombian marching powder.
Uh-huh.
And I think, you know, sometimes guys get ideas.
Sure.
That aren't really tenable.
Thank God I never had the taste for that.
I never even tried it.
Have you never?
Nope.
Definitely done it, but it's just...
I have friends that they can't have a drink without wanting to go get a bag,
and I'm like...
Oh, boy.
And those guys have to get sober, like stone-cold AA sober, because they'll
disappear.
Well, they'll also die today, because you can get a bad bag, and it's got fentanyl
in it,
you know?
I don't get it.
I just never...
It's like five minutes of feeling good for like three days of feeling terrible
is not...
It doesn't pencil out for me, man.
I got lucky that when I was a kid in high school, I had a friend, and his
cousin got addicted
to coke, and I watched what happened to him.
He was selling it, too, and I watched him completely fall apart.
It was like...
It was like he had been haunted, like something had taken over his body, like a
parasite.
He lost all his weight.
He got super pale.
He got real sketchy and weird, and he'd just hang out in his apartment, and
they would just
watch TV and do coke all day.
It was nuts.
No, yikes.
It was horrible.
It was dark.
And I was always terrified of doing anything that would turn me into a loser.
That was my number one fear when I was a kid.
I don't want to be a loser.
Yeah.
And so I'm like, okay, stay away from drugs, because that'll turn you into a
loser.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, there's some sort of gift in having some ambition, like wanting to be
somebody.
Yeah.
You know, they can come with...
There's pros and cons to that, but one of the big pros is like, anytime
anything would
get a little too dark, and I realized I was losing my grasp on what I was after,
you know,
professionally or whatever, I would course correct pretty quick.
Yeah, and if you don't have a thing, then it's just about whatever is fun.
And what's fun is continuing to chase whatever high or whatever drunk or
whatever it is that
your demons are.
Yeah.
That's rough.
I've seen a lot of people lose their life that way.
I mean, do they lose their direction?
They lose everything.
You know, it's just...
Substances can be fun, but they can take over.
Yeah.
And they can become your whole fucking life.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not good.
No.
Yeah.
I'm so happy I avoided Coke.
I avoided...
But I am interested.
It's too late, dude.
When I heard Hunter Thompson...
Not Hunter Thompson.
Hunter Biden, excuse me, talk about smoke and crack.
He did this interview where he was talking about how amazing smoke and crack is.
I was like, wow.
Maybe I could try it once.
I don't think...
I've never heard anybody, like, try it once, though.
No.
That's famous last words, man.
Right.
No one's done it once.
I mean, everybody who tries it gets hooked.
It seems like that's a problem.
Must be pretty awesome.
It's gotta be.
It's gotta be the best thing ever.
And he said, like, it's way better than cocaine.
Like, he said, like, the guy who was interviewing him...
What's that guy's name again?
Andrew Callahan?
When he was interviewing him, he was like, what is the difference?
And he explained, like, the delivery method, like, how it affects you.
It's so much different.
Like, the difference between, like, a Zin pouch and a cigarette.
Cigarette hits you way different than a Zin...
Cigarette's, like, instantly, like, oh.
Yeah.
Apparently, that's what Coke's like, smoking it.
Well, it was Richard Pryor, too.
I mean, he was essentially smoking crack.
They didn't call it crack back then.
They called it freebasing.
Right.
But it's the same thing.
Heroin, too, is another one.
It's like, those are the two big ones they tell you when you're like, if you do
this once, you're done.
Your whole life's over.
Yeah, I would imagine.
Yeah.
I've known people that have tried heroin once and be like, I can't do this
again.
It was too awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do that with, like, painkillers and stuff.
You know, I've been prescribed, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I love it.
I had a knee operation.
I gotta not do that.
I had multiple knee operations, but the first one I had was in the 90s, and
they gave me a morphine drip, and they give you a button, and you could press
the button to get more morphine when you needed it.
Oh, my God, I hammered that button.
I was lying in this bed, and my knee had just been cut open like a fish, and
there's screws in there, and my ACL had been reconstructed.
And I was on this perpetual motion machine, so the idea is to keep your knee
from going stiff.
You're on this thing that straightens your leg out and brings it back and
straight.
So I'm lying in this bed, and my leg is, and I'm hammering that button.
I was so happy.
I was like, I get it now.
I get it.
But that was only once, luckily.
And they didn't give me, they gave me some painkillers afterwards.
I think they gave me Percocets, but they were so, I took whatever the dose was,
and it was, I only did it once.
It was so bad, I felt so dumb, and so dull, and so stupid.
I'd like, I'd rather be in pain.
So I sold all my pills to this dude at the pool hall.
I gave him my pills.
I'm like, here, you can buy these from me.
One of my buddies was telling me, he's in the military, and they would carry
these morphine lollipops in case they ever got shot.
And you just pull it out.
In the moment, you start sucking on it.
It's just like a morphine high.
I was like, I kind of want to get those to fly with.
Because wouldn't that be awesome?
Like if the plane's going down, you just start sucking on that thing, you'd be
fine.
Yeah, just put on the headphones.
Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.
It'd be amazing, dude.
Anytime I fly over the ocean, I'm just like, I freak out.
I don't like the idea.
It's actually no, a fentanyl lollipop.
Oh.
So.
Maybe that's what it was.
Gotta be strong.
Either way, though, wouldn't that be, I mean, that's like biggest fear, number
one, is plane going down.
Yeah.
Because you have like five minutes to think about it, and you're hearing like,
everyone's screaming, everyone knows they're going to die too,
and you're stuck in this tube with a bunch of strangers knowing they're going
to die for five minutes.
I mean, that is hell on earth to me.
Yeah.
I can't imagine anything worse.
That's a rough one.
I think getting eaten by a bear might be worse, because there's no one around
you.
I wonder, though, if the bear thing, if you're in so much shock, like, are you
feeling it?
I bet you are.
You think so?
Especially if they start legs first.
Yeah.
Because the thing about bears is they don't kill you.
They just start eating you.
Oh, my God.
Like a salmon.
Ruthless.
They don't kill a salmon.
They just hold it down, pull chunks off of it.
Yikes.
Apparently, that movie Grizzly Man, the audio was so bad that Werner Herzog
told the lady to delete it and burn it.
Because they had a, the guy's, Timothy Treadwell, his girlfriend, his ex-girlfriend,
got a hold of the camera.
So the camera, apparently the lens cover was on, but the camera was running.
Oh, right.
Yeah, I've seen that.
Yeah.
Where he listens to it in the documentary.
He's like, burn this.
Don't let anyone listen.
Would you listen?
Give him the chance?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I think I would listen.
Yeah, everybody would listen.
And then I'd hate myself for having to.
There's a fake version of it online.
I've heard that.
Yeah, it's not real, though.
It's pretty obvious that it's fake, but people believe it's real.
But it goes on for five minutes.
Oof.
Five minutes is a long time.
Like, think of a round, an MMA round.
It's five minutes.
Oh, my God.
And all that time, you're just getting chunks pulled out of your body.
Bro.
Have you ever seen a grizzly while you're hunting?
Yeah, once.
Really?
Yeah, in Alberta.
Yeah.
It was very scary.
And it wasn't a big one.
It was like a six-foot bear.
But it looked at me so different than any other animal.
Like, I've seen a lot of black bear.
And black bear look at you like this.
Like, who are you?
What are you doing?
Right.
They look at you sideways, and they're like, I want to get out of here.
Grizzly looks at you like this.
Oh.
Like locks on you.
Yeah.
Like, am I going to eat you?
And I was with my friend Jen.
She's a guide up there.
Jen and John, they run a hunting outfit up in Alberta.
And they, as soon as, like, she saw it, she screamed.
She screamed, like, get the fuck out of here.
Racks her shotgun, cracks a stick against the tree to scare it off.
And then we immediately bailed.
Like, let's get the fuck out of here.
Yeah, I've never seen one.
Don't want to.
They see big ones up there sometimes.
And John, her husband, he sprayed one.
He was in a tree stand, and he sprayed it with pepper spray, and the thing didn't
even react.
He's like, like, you think you're going to, oh, bear spray.
I'm sorry.
And it was like, fuck you.
Yeah.
It's just like this fucking nine-foot bear.
This huge wild dog.
You know, this fucking immense, super powerful thing that can run 45 miles an
hour.
Oh, man.
Apex.
Fuck that, man.
They're terrifying.
Montana's got a ton of them.
Yeah.
That's one thing I didn't have in Ohio, is, like, the fear of getting eaten by
something when you're out in the woods.
Oh, yeah.
And it's dark, and you're walking through.
The first time that bow hunt I was telling you about, I, you know, you bring a
sidearm, and all you have is a bow, in case you do see some mountain lion or
something, grizzly bear.
And my buddy was like, what do you got on you?
And I was like, it's a nine millimeter.
He goes, well, if you see one, shoot yourself.
Yeah, you got to bring a 45.
Well, I guess there's a, there's a 10 millimeter with a special round you can
take, but yeah, nine millimeter, bounce off.
Yeah, I mean, you're going to hurt him.
I mean, if you hit him in the face, maybe it'll do something.
But you're not even going to get through that skull, probably.
No, they say it won't.
It'll literally bounce off its skull.
That's crazy.
That's so crazy.
I know.
And Cam hunts them with a bow.
Hunt's grizzly bear?
Yeah.
Yeah, he's killed a few grizzlies with a bow.
Wow.
Yeah.
Does he hunt out of a tree?
How do you do that?
On the ground.
No, dude, why?
Spot and stalk.
Oof.
Yeah.
I'm good on that.
Yeah, he's out of his fucking mind.
And his attitude is, well, if this is how I go, this is how I go.
I go doing what I love.
Okay.
He's got some crazy pictures.
See if we can find some pictures of Cam with a grizzly bear.
He's got one where he killed this massive one, and he's holding up its paw.
And its paw is, like, as big as my torso.
It's fucking huge.
It's fucking huge.
There's such a...
Some guy recently, I think he killed the biggest bear that's ever been killed.
Um, I sent it to Cam.
Oh, damn, dude.
Yeah.
Look at that paw.
Look at the claws.
Look at the claws on that thing.
No way.
Yeah.
And there's a photo of him with the bear on the ground.
Click on that.
The size of that fucking thing, man.
Do you know what state he's hunting?
That was in Alaska.
That's the only state you can hunt them.
I was going to say, it's probably illegal in Los Angeles.
Yeah.
It's illegal in the lower 48 for whatever reason.
It probably shouldn't be in, like, Wyoming, in Montana.
It's gotten to the place where they really probably shouldn't.
Maybe there's just not enough of them, other than in Alaska, I would imagine.
Um, I mean, I don't think so.
I think the real problem is, once they're not listed, it's very difficult to
get them on a list.
You know, to get tags allocated for them.
There's the video of him shooting it.
Damn.
Look at the size of that fucking thing.
That's what I'm saying.
What if it just right there gets pissed off?
It can.
Well, there's a guy right behind him with a gun.
There's a guy right behind him with a rifle, which is also weird.
Like, anytime you're bow hunting and a guy has to have a rifle, I think you
should probably just use a rifle.
Right.
That's just my perspective.
Just wait a few months.
Yeah.
If I ever wanted to go grizzly hunting, I would definitely bring a rifle.
I just don't see myself doing that.
But I know a lot of my friends have.
You know, and you have to kill a certain number of them just to keep the
populations of the moose.
And elk and everything else in check because otherwise there's nothing going to
stop them.
And then you have a situation like you have in Montana or like you have in
Wyoming where there's a lot of interactions with people.
People wind up dying.
And there's no fear because in Alaska, they're a little sketched out about
people because people hunt them.
Right.
And that's the better relationship.
Right.
The relationship where they have zero fear of people, that's not good.
And that is Montana and that is Wyoming and that is Idaho.
Look at that guy.
So this is, is this the largest one?
1,600, it's the second biggest ever taken by 100.
It's 1,600 pounds.
Look at the fucking size of that thing.
Dude, that's terrifying.
Yeah.
Good Lord.
That is immense.
Makes me think.
Have you seen these reports of Bigfoot being seen in Ohio recently?
Yeah, a bunch.
I kind of think of someone fucking with people, obviously.
But maybe not.
I don't know.
What are they seeing?
Are there bears?
There's bears in Ohio, I guess.
There are.
And there are black bears in Ohio.
And they do walk upright sometimes.
It's probably a dude in a suit, man.
It's probably meth.
I think various sizes I've seen up to like 11, down to 8 feet.
Yeah, but they're just guessing.
You don't know how big a thing is.
You have a fucking tape measure.
You're like, excuse me, Mr. Bigfoot, stand still for a moment here.
Okay, stand up straight.
Put this under your heel.
I used to wish so bad Bigfoot was real, man.
Oh, I wish so bad.
I had a dude at a show last night who told me his dad was one of the people
that filmed the famous Patterson-Gimlin footage.
No way.
Yeah, yeah, so his dad was that guy.
I feel like we know now that it can't be real because of how many trail cameras
there are in the world.
Yeah.
We would have seen him a few times.
I've never met a hunter that's seen one.
No.
Including guys that are in the Pacific Northwest all the time.
Although I did a show back in the day with my friend Duncan where we went
looking for Bigfoot.
We went to the places where Bigfoot's normally.
It's a person in an eye.
A person in a Sasquatch costume, obviously.
I mean, no pictures, please.
I mean, if there's a whole bunch of them, it's probably someone fucking around.
Six different sightings.
March 6th, 7th, and 9th, and 10th.
Wow.
All different people?
Yeah.
Huh.
Boy, I hope it's real.
It would be awesome.
That's what I'd also be like.
Maybe it's just a group of friends that are high.
I'm like, you know, we're going to do every night for the next fucking week.
We're all going to call this fucking number and see what happens.
Or we're going to run around the woods.
But that's a good way to get shot.
Like some crazy dude who's like, I'm going to prove Bigfoot's real.
Oh, for sure.
And he just fucking blasts you.
Don't do it during hunting season.
Yeah.
Big mistake.
I think it used to be a real thing.
That's what I think.
Bigfoot?
Yeah.
You think it was actually here at some point?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because there's too many Native American words for it.
Native Americans, I think, we looked this up, didn't they?
They have dozens of names that different tribes have for the same thing.
A big, hairy, wild man that lives in the woods.
I think it was a gigantopithecus.
I think at one point in time, it was a real creature.
Have they found any bones or anything?
Yeah, the gigantopithecus bones.
They've only found them in Asia.
They've never found them in North America.
But when the Bering Land Bridge was attached, a lot of animals came across from
Asia and
made their way into North America through Alaska and down through the Pacific
Northwest.
And a lot of people have seen them in Alaska.
Alaska is like a hotbed for sightings, too.
I think those people are cracked out.
I think that's probably bears.
But I think the Native American stories, I think it's a thousands and thousands
of years
old thing, I think way back in the day.
Like I was watching this guy named Michael Button.
He's been on the podcast before.
And he's a historian who really focuses on ancient civilizations.
And he was doing this whole video on YouTube about how little is left over.
Like how rare it is to make a fossil.
I think about how the dinosaurs were around for literally like hundreds of
millions of years.
And yet we only have like thousands of fossils.
And what's the possibility of a fossil existing from a civilization, like
fossilized human being
from a civilization 200,000 years ago?
It's almost none.
Most things never become a fossil.
It has to be like the perfect conditions to create a fossil.
And so we don't really know what animals did or didn't live here other than
fossilized ones.
And that's a tiny fraction of what we find.
Okay.
And so if there was some sort of big hairy thing that lived here, because we
know there
was humans that were living in North America.
Now we know that they were here at least as far back as 22,000 years.
Because of White Sands, New Mexico, they found footprints.
And then they do carbon testing on the seeds and the different organic matter
that's in those
footprints.
And they get a carbon date of like around 22,000 years, which is pretty crazy
because they
used to think it was like 13,000 years ago.
And now they push that back at least another nine years.
And they think it's probably, these weren't the first.
There's probably people there even further than that.
So if humans were here, let's say they were here 50,000 years ago, that puts it
in the
timeline where Gigantopithecus could have been alive.
Because I think the fossils that they found of Gigantopithecus are 100,000
years old, which
is just fossils, right?
Like you never know.
And that, they didn't find that until the 1920s or 30s.
They found teeth in an apothecary shop in China.
And this guy who was there, who was an anthropologist, was like, what, where'd
you get this?
Because they were primate teeth, but they were fucking huge.
And so then they took them to the place and they found jawbones and a few other
pieces.
And this thing, they've determined because of the shape of the jawbone that it
was bipedal.
So it stood up on two legs and it was like eight to 10 feet tall.
It was a giant, giant primate that was in the orangutan species.
So that could be Bigfoot.
That could be what these people saw.
Yeah, absolutely.
So it probably existed in North America at one point in time.
But around the time of the Younger Dryas Impact Theory, which is 11,800 years
ago, somewhere
around 65% of all North American megafauna was eliminated.
All the woolly mammoths, giant sloths, African American lion.
We had a lion that was bigger than the African lion that was in North America.
That Younger Dryas thing you're talking about, that's a comet hitting there?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And that's what ended the Ice Age.
And that's what created the Great Lakes.
And that's what melted all the ice that covered most of North America back then
during the Ice Age.
And are a lot of scientists agreeing that that's probably what happened at this
point?
Well, there's definitely debate, but there's a large group of legitimate
scientists that
are 100% convinced that we were hit.
It's a matter of what impact did that have and was that responsible?
Because there's a berserker theory.
The berserker theory is that humans just killed off everything.
We got so good at hunting.
But the problem with that theory is back then, there's not even evidence that
they had bow
and arrow yet.
They wouldn't be that good at it.
No.
No.
No.
Especially like the American lion and mammoths and the giant sloths.
And there's so much shit that we don't even know how many people were here back
then.
And this is like Ice Age people with stone-tipped spears.
Yeah, I don't buy that.
Did they kill these things?
All of them?
They killed all of them?
Right.
They weren't even riding horses.
They were just on foot?
Like, I don't know.
Yeah.
It's much more likely that they all were wiped out by this fucking comet.
And if that's the case, maybe it wiped out Bigfoot too.
Oh, that's my favorite one.
Out of all of the, like, Bigfoot's the best one.
He's awesome.
Well, it's just, it would be a crazy thing to see, you know?
Have you ever heard the recordings that these guys made that they said were Sasquatch
recordings?
No.
I think they call them samurai recordings, because it literally sounds like,
almost like they're
speaking Japanese.
It sounds so fake.
It sounds so fake.
But these people are, there's groups of people out there that you'll tell them
this is fake
and they want to fight you.
Really?
Oh, they're all in.
They're so committed to Bigfoot.
The guys that we met when Duncan and I went Bigfoot hunting, they're so
possessed by it.
Where'd you go?
Where was the-?
Pacific Northwest.
It was like, it was like, right outside of Seattle, up there.
I met this lady that was really convincing.
She said that she saw this thing.
She's like, why is there a gorilla in the woods?
And she's like, oh my God, it's Bigfoot.
And like, she didn't seem kooky at all.
But I think what she saw was a bear.
And a bear standing, like black bears standing up on their two legs and walk
all the time.
Especially if they have a hurt paw.
They'll walk on two legs.
I think she probably saw it.
But Pacific Northwest is so crazy because I'm sure you've been up there, right?
Yeah.
The woods are so dense that it's like a box of Q-tips.
That's how I describe it.
You can't hardly see anything.
So if you're seeing some tall thing move between trees just for a few steps,
that might be the only thing you see.
And your head just starts spinning and you start creating this imaginary
narrative.
Here's the recordings.
So this guy's talking.
Oh my God, it's Bigfoot.
It sounds so fake.
I don't buy that for a second.
Not a second.
But man, people, the Bigfoot dorks.
Like that show Finding Bigfoot, I had that dude.
What's his name?
Bobo?
Is that the dude's name?
We had him on.
And I told him I thought the Patterson footage was bullshit.
He's like, no.
He's like, so upset.
It looks so fake.
It looks like a guy in a fucking gorilla suit.
And then the dude that they think that was wearing the suit.
What is his name again?
I forgot the guy's name.
But the dude who they think was wearing the suit, he looked like Bigfoot.
Like he walked like him.
Yeah, he walked like that footage.
Yeah.
Like he was a big old cowboy.
Big old fucking tall ass cowboy.
John Wayne.
And he had to walk like a fucking gorilla.
Roger Patterson.
Roger Patterson.
Well, Roger Patterson was a guy that filmed it, right?
That's right.
Patterson Gimlin footage.
I don't know.
Right.
I thought one of them was the one in the suit and the other one filmed it.
Maybe I'm mistaken.
But there's a side-by-side of the actual stupid video that they're proclaiming
to be Bigfoot.
And then this guy walking.
And I think it was a different guy.
Yeah, it could be.
I forget his name.
But it looks, I'm like, that's him.
Have you ever had a flat earther on here?
No.
Sort of.
I've had some people that like want to dabble in it.
Like, shut the fuck up.
That's the craziest one.
I don't want to have that conversation with people.
And people are like, yeah, because you'll lose.
Because the Earth is flat.
Listen, everything else is round.
Why would this place be flat?
Yeah.
Why would everyone be lying?
That's crazy.
Why would the people that get up in the fucking space station be lying?
We know it circles.
We've seen it.
It spins around.
We have pictures of it.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We have satellites.
They think all the satellite images of Earth are fake.
They think everything is fake.
I think a lot of that's schizophrenia.
Sure.
And then a lot of it is like somehow or another it's biblical.
It's people believe that it's that we're trying to hide it from us because they
don't want us to know that God is real.
Oh, like the firmament and all the stuff that the Bible says is above us.
Yeah, but you know what the Bible doesn't say?
It doesn't say the Earth is flat.
Right.
Never.
Never talks about it being flat.
You know, like they had figured out the Earth was round thousands of years ago.
Like snipers have to calculate the curvature of the Earth.
Right.
When they're making shots.
Yeah, there's too many things against it.
Like the fact that we've seen it is the biggest one.
We know exactly what it looks like.
I had Roger Avery on the other day, the director.
He's a really interesting guy.
And he went down a bunch of maybe too many flat Earth rabbit holes.
And he was like, well, you know, pilots don't have to adjust for the curve of
the Earth.
And then I talked to a friend of mine who's a pilot.
He goes, you know why?
Autopilot.
He goes, it keeps you at an altitude.
That makes sense.
Because you always have, you know, you're the same distance from the Earth.
So that would make sense that you would go on the curve.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Fucking dur.
It's just that being something that people would, what's really interesting is
there's
this one guy who takes people up to Antarctica to prove to them that the Earth
is round.
And like this idea that there's a, so he like takes, and there was one guy and
he flew him
out there.
He's like, I can't believe I believe this.
It's amazing.
He spends money, he spends his own money taking these guys up there for free,
educating.
How does he prove it from up there?
It just flies them up there and shows them you actually can fly over Antarctica.
Like there's, you just don't, they don't want you flying over there because if
you crash,
no one's going to come get you.
Right.
You know, you're dead.
Right.
It's like, but people do fly over it.
The idea that you can't is stupid.
There's no secret World War II base.
There's no wall there.
They're probably doing some weird experiments and shit up there though.
I do think that's true.
Like there's, there's some people that have some pretty convincing stories of
direct energy
weapons and things that they're developing up there.
And there's a neutrino detector that they have up there that a lot of people
think does
a lot more than that.
They think it might actually be able to cause earthquakes and affect the
weather.
And it's a, it's a weird rabbit hole to go down.
Sure.
But I'm sure the government's doing some slippery shit that we don't know about
up there.
Yeah.
Man, it's so weird, like in this time that we have all the information or like
nobody trusts
the government anymore.
Has it, has it always been like that?
Like it has been a little bit that nobody trusts the government, but now there's
reason to not
trust them because we've seen what they've done with real events.
Like, like the Epstein files and a lot of other stuff where you're like, okay,
JFK where
you're like, why don't you just fucking tell us what, you know, in the interest
of national
security, some things must be redacted.
Right.
Like there's a reason to not trust them.
Yeah.
I get like growing up, you see like older guys are always, they didn't trust
the government.
The world's going to shit, all this stuff.
And I'm like, am I just getting old or is this happening to everyone?
Are we all doing this now?
I think as you get older, you also take in enough information that you know
that they're
not being straight with you about anything.
Right.
I mean, this is, that was always been my argument about the moon landing.
Like you think that they're going to not lie about this one thing when they've
lied about
everything else, including how we got into Vietnam, Kennedy's assassination,
fill in the blanks,
everything in the 1960s they lied about.
Sure.
Because they could.
There was no, you know, they controlled all the information.
Yeah.
Well, that's what's interesting about today.
Like that's why there's less trust in the government than ever because we have
more access to
information.
So there's more reason to not trust them.
Yeah.
You know, it's like, it's a squirrely time.
Right.
Yeah.
That's why I like living in Montana.
And it all goes down.
I'll be way far away from all of it.
You ever seen anything in the sky that you see like, what the fuck is that?
You've seen anything weird?
Nothing crazy.
No.
When we did decide to move there, my wife and I had taken a little bit of
mushrooms
and this guy put on a little performance for us.
Oh, that's a little.
That was part of the, like, I think we're supposed to move here.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, it was, you know, it was a little induced, but yeah, it was, and we both
saw it and
we were with people who didn't see it that were also on mushrooms.
Oh, interesting.
So it was a show just for you guys.
That's what it felt like.
Yeah.
I mean, we both were like, are you, we were making sure it was the same thing
and our friends
were like, what are you talking about?
Did they take the same dose?
Yeah.
Maybe they weren't supposed to go there.
That's right.
Maybe it's a fate thing.
Yeah.
We felt very spiritually connected to it after that.
Well, it's a good place to be spiritually connected to.
It feels like you're supposed to be spiritually connected to it because it's so,
it's one of
the last places, like Wyoming's like that as well.
It's one of the last places where it's not tainted.
Even though there's cities there, it's settled.
It's like, it's so much more wild than it is tame that you still get this
feeling of like
humble.
Yeah.
You get, you get humbled by just the vast spectacular nature of it.
Yeah.
It's almost like we feel like nature is the novelty these days.
And it's like, no man, that everything that we messed up and put a bunch of
concrete on
should be the novelty.
The nature is the actual thing.
That's the way we're supposed to be.
Yeah.
You know, and we've all kind of like flipped that in our head.
And obviously I'm not, I have the luxury to be able to live out in a place like
that.
But the more I live there, the more I feel like this is how I was meant to live.
You know, me personally, I can't talk for anyone else, but I'm just in a way
better place
mentally and otherwise.
Yeah.
There's this guy who lives in the Arctic, like, like above the Arctic Circle or
near the Arctic
Circle.
He, they filmed him this vice documentary called Heinemos Great Adventure.
And this guy's been living there since like the 1970s.
He moved up there and he's got a log cabin and he just lives up there.
All he does is hunts caribou and goes fishing and he's a really smart guy.
And this like nerdy reporter with glasses goes up and hangs out with this guy
for a few days.
And, you know, the guy was really like, really compelling in the way he was
describing, like, I think this is how people are supposed to live.
Like, I'm so much more calm and at peace.
It seems natural and normal.
Like, this is how you're supposed to live.
And all he does is just like hunting fish and he gets like some supplies
dropped off to him, like canned goods and shit, baking soda or whatever.
But most of his life is just living off of the land.
The proof's in the pudding, man.
When I'm, when I'm, when I'm in a city for a long time and I'm on my phone, I'm
looking at Instagram and all that stuff.
It takes a week before I feel insane, like completely crazy.
And if I just put that stuff away and go outside, even in a city, like if I
just put that stuff down for a little bit and go outside and connect with the
person, I feel, you know, infinitely better.
And if you just look at, you know, the stuff on your phone and you're, you're
so sucked into that, you would believe this is this, the world is a shitty
place.
But then if you don't look at that and you go outside and you live your real
life, it doesn't take long before everything feels good again.
Yeah.
And like you have hope again, you, you know, you're, you're, you're meeting
your neighbors or going to the grocery store or going to the post office.
Like everything feels pretty good out there.
It's just your phone telling you that this place is terrible.
Yeah, that's the, this is the big bridge to crazy, much more than cities is
these fucking things.
Oh yeah.
They're the bridge to crazy.
And like, that's what AI is learning from.
It's only learning from all this terrible information we're putting online.
So.
And it's accelerated.
It can't learn from the real world.
Right.
It can't go to the grocery store and see that everyone's actually pretty good
for the most part.
Right.
99% of what you do out in your real life is fine.
Right.
You know, but it's only going to see the worst of all of us.
And then, and then show us that even more, show that back to us.
Cause that's all it knows.
Right.
That's really scary to me, man.
It is scary.
And it's never going to really appreciate a great song.
It's never going to really appreciate art.
It's not going to appreciate love or community or friendship or any of those
things.
No.
It's not going to appreciate the feeling that you have.
You could just call your neighbor up and go over to his house and shoot 500
yards in his backyard.
Yeah, exactly.
You know what I mean?
It's not going to get that.
Right.
It's not going to get how cool that is that that guy's 70 years old.
He hits a deer.
He's like, brushes it off.
Fucking 70.
Yeah.
70 years old hitting a deer.
You're supposed to be dead as fuck.
No, man.
Not him.
He looks like John Wayne.
Yeah.
Guy's crazy.
I and you, we can appreciate that.
Yeah.
That fucking AI doesn't give a shit about that.
They go, get off the motorcycle.
You shouldn't be on the motorcycle, Dave.
Yeah.
And dude, dude, talking about music.
It can make good songs, though.
I've heard you play someone here.
And I, my friends will just, you know, whatever apps they have.
I don't really know all the new apps, but they'll just give it a prompt.
And the song is incredible.
Yeah.
And it does it in 10 seconds.
It's spooky.
It's really weird, man.
But it's only doing it derivatively.
Like, it's only taking the songs that other people have written and just making
sort of a, some sort of a conglomeration of them and spitting it out.
Or it's redoing, like, an old hip-hop song in, like, a blues style or, you know,
something like that.
Unfortunately, that's 99% of what humans do, too.
Right.
You know?
It is true.
It's all derivative anyway.
I know.
But at least it's a person.
Yeah.
Like, something to me about, even if it's derivative, if it's good, if it's
catchy, at least I know a dude and his friends did that.
Yeah.
And you can get behind a person as an artist and like their stuff until they
aren't underground anymore, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's the silliness.
That is so silly, isn't it?
Like, if you really start to take off, someone's going to eventually go, fuck
that guy.
I knew that guy when he was just fucking just starting out.
He was pretty good.
His songs were good.
And then he made it.
It's going to be controversial, but the first Coldplay album is still amazing,
you know?
But they got so huge that everyone hates Coldplay now.
And you're like, but they are really good.
I like Coldplay.
I do, too.
But like music nerds are like, they can't do Coldplay because they're doing
stadiums and your mom likes them now.
I think that was one of the things that people didn't like about Nickelback
because Nickelback was almost like the first AI.
You know what I mean?
Like that Rockstar song, that was like an AI version of like a lot of like,
like Cypress Hill had a Rockstar song that was like, but Cypress Hill's sounds
so much more genuine.
Whereas the Nickelback one is like, almost like these guys are just too AI.
It's almost like they were AI.
It was.
It was the beginning of sort of like auto-tune and all that stuff.
But auto, like really good auto-tune that you couldn't tell.
Not like the auto-tune that's in rap where you know they're auto-tuned on
purpose.
It was like, everything's so perfect.
And it almost doesn't sound like humans playing music.
Right.
And the subject matter is like, I've heard all this stuff before.
Yeah.
That's the problem.
Right down the middle.
Yep.
Yeah.
It was AI.
Nickelback was the first AI music.
Yeah.
I don't know.
People are weird with their taste.
And they want you to like what they like.
That's what's really weird.
Like, you have to like what they like.
Yeah.
Or they get mad at you.
Yeah.
For sure.
What are you going to do?
Well, listen, man.
I really enjoyed talking to you.
It was a lot of fun.
Thanks for having me.
I love your fucking show.
I can't wait to watch Marshalls because I love you on Yellowstone.
It's a fucking great show.
I'm really bummed out that your wife's dead now, though.
That sucks.
Yeah.
It was rough.
I didn't.
I love Kelsey and we love working together.
But, you know, ultimately, you don't want to just sit and watch a guy be happy.
That wouldn't be a very good show.
You know, he needed a motor.
You guys had a cool relationship, though.
I know.
It was fun.
But he had his dream life and they were happy together.
So you can't watch that for 50 hours or however long this ends up going.
Well, he knows how to mix it up.
I'll tell you that.
A dude knows, Taylor knows how to fucking throw a monkey wrench into things and
make it crazy.
Absolutely.
Make it interesting.
So I can't wait to watch it.
Thanks, bud.
Thank you.
Thanks for being here.
All right.
Bye, everybody.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.