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Priyanka Chopra Jonas is an actor, producer, entrepreneur and former Miss World. She stars in the ongoing series “Citadel” and the film “The Bluff,” both streaming on Prime Video. www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0G565KPS4 www.imdb.com/name/nm1231899
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Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
I won't lie, I am nervous to talk to you.
Come on.
How can you be nervous? That's ridiculous.
Like I came in slightly intimidated.
Why?
I actually don't know the answer to that because we've never met.
Yeah.
So it's not like you've intimidated me.
But I just, I'm really, I think what I really enjoy about your show is just
such an eclectic perspective on so many diverse things.
And it comes like so naturally to you.
I really admire that.
Well, fortunately, I don't have anybody pick my guests.
So it's all people that I'm actually interested in talking to.
So it's easy.
Oh, that's nice.
Well, thank you for picking me.
Oh, my pleasure.
I'm excited to talk to you.
Your movie is fucking crazy.
Like, I knew it was a pirate movie, but I just did not expect the ultraviolence.
Like from the beginning, I was like, yo.
Like I locked in immediately.
I was like, first scene, I was like, holy shit.
Like, this is crazy.
Well, thank you.
That's a good thing, right?
I mean, when you're doing something that's that hyper-violent, like, is that,
does that freak you out at all?
Like, you're cutting people open with swords and stabbing them in the neck and
it's like, holy shit.
When you're doing it, you know, it's like make-believe.
So it's so much fun to be like, yeah, I'm playing pirates and I'm going to behead
you.
But, I mean, in moments of like scenes and stuff where I actually had to think
about what it must have been like to be a female at that time.
Or, because they existed.
Women, female pirates existed and we just, we didn't hear much about stories
about them.
I mean, I heard about Grace O'Malley, maybe Mary Reed, like a few famous ones.
Ching Shi, after I did my research.
But, like, in those moments, you're like, this stuff must have, like, this was
real.
They lived at a time where it was survival of the fittest.
It was barbaric and I wonder what that must have been like.
But besides that, the stunts and stuff, like, I really have so much admiration
for the amount of precision it requires to pull that stuff off from so many
people.
Not just the stunt department, but, like, the cameras because they're also
moving in sync with you.
Yeah.
And that's cool.
It is cool.
Is it hard to stay in the moment when all that is happening?
Because you have so much coordination and so, there's so much choreography.
There's, like, he's going to swing this way and you're going to block it and
you're going to dive down.
It's like, it's so complex.
Like, these are long, extended fight scenes.
We had, like, a lot of oners, too.
Like, full, the whole scene in one shot.
Whoa.
Which Frankie, our director, really loved the idea of and I honestly love it
because it brings you into that moment is so enriched with everything that you're
supposed to feel between action and cut.
So, I do love a long oner.
But, you know, I come from Bollywood movies.
So, we have a lot of choreography for, like, dance sequences where stories are
also moving forward, like, between, you know, your exchange of expression or
something's happening somewhere else.
You come back.
So, I treat sort of fight sequences like dancing.
It's, you learn the choreography, but that doesn't stop your face from telling
the story.
Right.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, I mean, it is kind, I mean, it's just choreography, whether it's
choreography with dance or choreography with movements with your hands and
swords.
I had never worked with blades before this movie, though.
That was cool.
How much training did you have to do?
Like, when you found out that you're going to take the role, how much
preparation did you have to do physically to get ready for all that stuff?
It was a cool year for me because I was filming three jobs which were all
action and stunts.
So, this movie called Heads of State, which I did for Amazon again, and then
Citadel, and this movie.
So, it was a year of three action-packed jobs.
So, the, you know, being agile and being in it was already part of what I was
doing because that's what I was filming every day.
But the swords training was tough, and to be ambidextrous with it as well.
So, I had my stunt coordinator who was doing all three movies with me.
She, in between shots, she and I would just take our rubber swords out and do,
like, choreography and rehearsals.
But, like, it took at least three or four months of just staying in it and
getting loose with it.
Also because Karl Urban, my co-actor, had, casual, learned how to do, like,
sword fights in The Lord of the Rings.
So, he was amazing at it.
So, I didn't, you know, in that last duel, I didn't want to be any less than.
So, I kind of went at it.
No, you look very good at it.
It was really good.
Thank you.
I was, like, did you work with some sort of, like, a kendo specialist or some fencing
specialist?
Like, how did you learn how to move the sword correctly?
It wasn't kendo, for sure.
It definitely wasn't fencing.
It was uniquely, because the swords were, our director was very, very excited
about the weapons in this movie and wanting to get it really right from the
period.
Whether it was the guns that we used or the blades that we used, the machete
was one of my favorite weapons in the movie, because that's, like, her weapon
in the movie, because it's practical.
Use it for coconuts.
Use it for skulls.
Same, same.
And that was really fun.
But our, you know, second unit director, Rob Alonzo, had so much experience in
the amount of work that he's done prior.
He came in with a very specific idea of wanting to make the fighting style
super unique, and each set piece, like, a different design of choreography.
So, you know, there was one which was in a dark cave, so the only time you saw
people was when the gunshot went off, and just different styles of fighting,
which I thought was really cool.
So, but did you have, like, a professional trainer that taught you how to do
that?
Yes.
And so, how would you do it?
Would you do it with a real sword?
Did you do it with, like...
Well, we had three different kinds of swords.
The real sword, like, weighs more than me.
It was insane.
I couldn't do it with the real sword as much.
But for filming, and this is the magic of the movies, you know, you have four
different weights of it.
One is, like, the real sword, where you need it for, like, you know, where it's
a close-up, or the sword is really, really visible.
But when you're doing the big choreography, you have, like, a lighter sword,
which is created by the props department, and then another lighter one.
And when you need to flip it, it's the lightest one.
Because I was thinking...
I'm telling you all my secrets.
That's good.
It's good to know.
That sucks.
Oh, no.
No, listen...
Here, I was trying to impress you with my sword flipping.
No, it's impressive, period.
And talking about my fencing.
But no, it was movie magic.
One of the things that I was thinking when I was watching it is, like, how many
takes did you have to do with this?
Because that's got to be so hard to do.
Because you're swinging this gigantic iron thing.
Yeah.
And clashing into other ones.
And, like, if you have to do three or four takes of this, your arms are going
to be toast.
Oh, we did, like, ten hours of it every day for, like, seven days or something.
Do you have shoulder problems after that?
No, actually, I didn't, but I was jacked.
My arms never looked as good.
Now, I mean, I have a four-year-old and I lift her a lot, so my arms are, like,
all right.
But during this movie, oof.
Because we were just, like, at it.
Yeah.
And we both, you know, threw ourselves at it, Carl and I.
And it took, it was a big choreography on top of this bluff.
We shot on 100% of this movie.
At least 90% is definitely on practical sets, real sets.
We did not want to use a lot of VFX.
So, you know, Phil Ivey, our production designer, we built the ships.
We built the house.
We built...
Really?
Everything was a replica of what it would have looked like in the 1900s in the
Cayman Islands.
We went and saw it.
It was amazing to be able to do that with real stuff, you know?
Yeah.
Well, the whole history of piracy is so fascinating.
And one of the things that the movie is about is this...
The Carl Urban character is from...
He was one of the soldiers of the East India Trading Company.
Then I went on a deep dive on the East India Trading Company.
You did.
That is crazy.
When you learn the history of that one corporation is one of the first publicly
traded corporations
that essentially was in control of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, went to war
with China over opium.
And that's how they took over Hong Kong.
You're like, holy shit.
One crazy fucking corporation involved in the slave trade, the opium trade,
just a corporation, publicly traded corporation.
People could buy stock in it.
Like one of the first ones.
And it just went haywire to the point where it got so big.
There was a revolt and then the British government took over it and nationalized
it.
But the whole story is insane.
If you think about how much in their minds they were able to achieve and how
much they were able to destroy in that duration is crazy if you go down history.
Changed the course of countries forever.
Of human lives forever.
Forever.
Like the amount of pillaging that happened.
Yes.
Millions and millions of lives.
And this movie actually has a really interesting slice of what they were
capable of doing.
They utilized pirates in order to, you know, take over new lands, right, in
their conquests.
And then when piracy was abolished, they, you know, went after them and they
wanted to arrest them.
And they vilified the same people that helped them build their entire empire.
So this was really interesting because my character's story, her parents and
her family are indentured servants, which was the truth of many, many people,
especially in India, where young people were, you know, told better
opportunities, new lands, more money.
Come with us and take them off as servants and then drop them in different
parts of the world and islands.
And the Caribbean has a huge Indian community whose history started with just
being displaced from their lands and dropped somewhere else in the world and
then having to figure out what your future looks like.
I mean, it still happens to many, many people around the world right now.
But I thought it was really interesting that my character came from that and
her entire identity was erased, taken from her.
She had no idea.
She was 12, so she had no idea what it meant to have that identity.
And I met so many people, actually, when I went to the Cayman who don't know
anything about their family tree beyond, like, five generations.
They were, they know where their family may have come from, from Sri Lanka or
from India or, you know, any other nation, but have no idea what, like, what it
was, where, from what village, like, what was your culture.
And that ambiguity in, in a history of a human being erases a part of you, it,
it, it denies you of, of knowing the depth of your culture or where you come
from or your roots.
And I thought that was really, really interesting for my character to play and,
and then reclaim herself through the journey of the movie.
Well, it's a fascinating part of human history and it's taken place all over
the world.
And for a lot of cultures, they, they don't have an understanding of exactly
what happened before they were colonized.
Yeah.
Like one of the great examples is Mexico.
I went in a long deep dive on Mexico recently over the last few months, because
I've had a bunch of people who are historians who came on the podcast, who were
just researching these ancient Incas.
and Mayan sites and talking to them about it.
And then I went into it and it's like, there was over a hundred different
languages that are just lost forever in that whole, what is now called Mexico.
And that's the reason why everybody over there speaks Spanish and is Catholic.
Like, it's not because that was their language and that was their religion.
They were all conquered.
Absolutely.
I mean, by like 600 guys, that's what's nuts.
Yeah.
600 guys in the 1500s came over, took over, you know, what was the Aztec empire
with help of the people that they were in conflict with and changed the course
of the entire country.
It's so many generations for forever.
Like to this day, people in Mexico think they speak Spanish and they have a
Catholic religion.
Well, that's all brought over from Spain, like the entire country.
They had wild names too, like Cacao, Thunder, Sky God, and all these different,
like almost like Native American type names.
Wow.
They looked like Native Americans.
But if you think about it, doesn't that make sense?
That makes so much sense.
Yeah.
They probably like shared land and crops and like.
Well, there was no real.
There were no borders at that time.
No, back then.
I mean, what were countries in the 1500s in North America?
Like what was, we don't even know.
Like what was North America like?
I mean, I think about how young America is technically.
Super young.
Like how many years, 300 years, 400 years?
Yeah, less, less than 300 years.
Yeah.
And like you were talking about history in India, she has been invaded over
thousands and thousands and thousands of years.
Only invaded.
We've never invaded anybody else.
She's not had the time.
India's like, just gave me a break.
Yeah.
The Portuguese, the British, the Mughals, like from back in time.
And the history of India, I mean, I'm not a historian and I don't claim to be,
but I find it really fascinating.
I love culture and especially the culture of India.
Like you will see my grandmother was Catholic because she comes, she was raised
in a part of India, which was colonized.
And a lot of people with Kerala, a lot of people were converted into Catholicism
and she grew up Catholic.
And, you know, she, she followed it for a very long time in her life.
India is like hyper diverse because of how many people have kind of made it her
roots.
So when you go to India, the amount of diversity you will see, the kind of, the
range of people that you will meet is impossible to fathom.
Like an Indian face does not look like a particular person or the amount of
cultures, the languages we have written and spoken languages, which are almost
like 20 something or in their thirties.
Absolutely different alphabet, absolutely different sound.
I can't, if I go to another state, I won't be able to understand what people
are saying.
Wow.
It's amazing.
Wow. How many different languages are spoken there?
About 28 to 30, but there are dialects in their hundreds.
Oh, wow.
Don't even get into the dialects.
I just speak English and Hindi, understand a little bit of Punjabi and Marathi,
but it's, it's really amazing.
Now, have you ever been, by the way?
No, I haven't.
Oh, Joe, you have to, you would, you would really like, you're the kind of guy
who likes a deep dive.
Yeah.
You would really lose yourself, I think.
Well, I want to go just to see it for many things, but just to see that one
immense temple that was carved entirely out of stone.
Oh yeah.
It's one of the great mysteries of archeology.
There, there are quite a few, if you go, especially south of India and the
caves, if you go inside the Andaman and Nicobar, like the caves, you'll see
from thousands and tens and thousands of years ago, illustrations that, that
you're like, how, how did this happen?
How could this temple have been chiseled or how could, you know, these stones
have been moved at that time?
Right.
It's just, it makes you, it made me very, very curious about like, what kind of
tools did we have back then?
Well, there's a lot of holes in human history.
Yeah.
For sure.
You know, Graham Hancock has a great quote.
He says that we are a species with amnesia.
And I think that's accurate.
And I think when you find some of the great archeological wonders where, where
people just have decided, oh, they built it this way and then just let it go.
And then other people start looking at it and go, wait a minute.
How?
How did they do this?
Like, when did they do this?
Like, what's the, what's the historical record of this?
Because this is kind of nuts.
This seems to indicate like a very advanced, sophisticated society.
Yeah.
A very advanced civilization.
Like one of the oldest civilizations in the world, along with the Mayans, is
the Indus Valley civilization, which is the north of India.
Yeah.
Um, and I just remember studying about it in school and that's my, my, my
maximum understanding of that civilization, but also like having visited the
Indus River, I guess.
But, um, I remember like the, the artifacts that were found and, um, like if
you do a deep dive into how that civilization existed and then how it was
erased and, you know, it makes you question like it's, there had to be some
seriously advanced, like scientific, um, understanding that was eventually lost
as, you know, as human evolution happened, where we lose a civilization and
then comes back again.
But it just makes you wonder about early humans and how fascinatingly advanced
we would have had to be to do all of that.
100%.
Yeah.
Without the technology and stuff that we have, I mean.
I think they had technology.
I think they had a different technology.
I think so too.
I think they had to.
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This one particular temple that I'm talking about.
Jamie, do you know the temple I'm talking about?
The one insanely massive one that's built into the side of a mountain?
Khaleesa temple.
This is it.
This is crazy.
This is what I meant.
Because the precision...
First of all, there's no understanding of where the stone went.
Like they moved who knows how many...
How did you take out all of those tons of rocks?
Yes.
It's so insane.
The precision is spectacular.
It's so nuts when you see like videos of people going through it.
How huge is that?
Immense.
Absolutely immense and incredibly precise.
And just carved out of a solid piece of stone.
The whole thing is carved out of the mountain.
Think about how old that is.
Like this is all BC.
Before Christ.
Like thousands and thousands of years.
Yeah.
BC.
And the history of India like...
Hence the diversity.
You see it's a...
It's one of the oldest civilizations in the world.
And then like how do you explain that?
Look at that image.
So it says it's 12...
What does it say?
How old did it say it was?
Twelve hundred.
Twelve hundred.
How do they know that?
I can't be right.
Twelve hundred years old.
See there's a lot of just estimates based on what was the civilization at the
time.
Yeah.
And there's no...
Like this is the thing with Peru.
Like Sacsayhuaman and a lot of these places were attributed to the Incas.
But you see like traditional Inca structures on top of these immense stones
that are a hundred tons.
They're carved in these weird jigsaw patterns as to absorb the energy if there's
an earthquake.
Wow.
Like it's weird shit.
And it's like okay well who did that?
So like oh the Incas did it.
Like how?
How'd they do that?
Because all their other structures are smaller stones stacked on top of each
other in a way
like you could see a person carrying them and cutting them.
Makes sense.
But there's a lot of stuff like that temple.
Like explain to me.
Yeah.
What you used.
There's no explanation.
Like how?
Like just metal?
Did you just use metal and carve that out like that?
And like just a chisel and human...
And if you fuck up once it's over.
Because you're not putting things on top of things like oh this block sucks.
Let's get a new block.
No you're carving.
Do you change the design if there's a fuck up?
Like you know what I mean?
If you're trying to build like a human form and you chisel off the nose.
Do you turn it into something else?
I don't know.
Probably.
Otherwise because it's just one piece and you're right.
You're not adding anything to it.
Well in Egypt there's indications that they abandoned certain pieces because
they cracked.
Because when you're dealing with you know granite and there's certain...
Specifically there's a gigantic obelisk that they were carving out.
I mean I think it was like 1,300 tons.
Like something bananas.
Like okay how are you going to move this fucking thing?
But they got to a certain point where there's a crack in it.
And so they had to abandon it.
And so it's still there.
And it's just there?
Yeah it's still...
I think that's in...
It might be in Aswan.
I'm not sure where it is but...
Do you know like you know the theories around the Egyptian pyramids obviously?
Like how were those blocks carried up?
There's no valid theory.
Zero.
How was it in that shape and so precisely geometrically you know?
Well it's even more complicated now.
Because there's an Italian scientist that we had on recently called Filippo Biondi.
Am I saying it right?
Biondi?
He's amazing accent this guy.
It's fucking incredible.
But he's using...
What is it?
Radio Doppler tomography.
So it's a type of satellite imagery that uses some technology to get a vision
of what's under the ground.
And they've used this successfully to show known caverns in the ground and
known pyramids.
And they even used it in Italy to show that they can look through a 1.2
kilometer mountain
and see underneath it this particle collider.
And have an exact dimension of the particle collider and see with the outlet.
So they used this on the pyramids.
And?
And they found these immense structures under the pyramids that go over a
kilometer into the ground
with massive, these huge 20 meter diameter columns that have these huge
circular coils wrapped around them.
No one knows what the hell they're looking at.
But they're in very precise positions.
They've done over 200 scans of these things.
They don't know what they are.
They don't know what's the purpose of all this.
So if this turns out to be accurate.
And they're very confident that it's accurate.
And they're starting to look into it deeper.
And they're trying to figure out how to get down in there and explore with
drones or something.
Then the whole thing gets thrown into question.
Because it's preposterous enough that you have someone who's able to cut and
place 2,300,000 stones.
That's perfectly aligned to true north, south, east, and west.
Some of them weigh as much as 80 tons.
Tons, which is insane.
That come from 500 miles away through the mountains.
No roads.
Like, how'd you do it?
That's crazy.
That's crazy in itself.
But if there's structures underneath that that go a kilometer into the ground.
And like there's a giant like a huge square at the bottom.
They don't know what it is.
But these are structures.
These are not like something that is just a naturally occurring stone.
Yeah, it was man-made.
And show her an image of it.
It's fucking kooky.
So what is that like how...
These are these columns.
This is like what the images are showing.
And the three-dimensional replication of what they think is...
That's what they think it looks like underneath there.
They have no idea what these things are.
What?
There's also...
Is that Hawara that has that underground labyrinth?
They've also found these...
The Herodotus wrote about these labyrinths.
There's a great channel on YouTube called Uncharted X by this guy, Ben Van Kirkwick,
who's been on the podcast before.
He's great.
And they've used radio...
Well, they used ground penetrating radar in that location.
They found that these immense labyrinths are real.
They're there.
They're huge.
Herodotus said that it's greater than Giza and it's underground.
And in the center of one of these atriums, there is a 40 meter metallic object
that's shaped like a tic-tac.
It's in the center of this...
What?
It's in the center of this...
Yes.
So, there's a bunch of shit that they can't explain down there where you're
like,
okay, what is this?
They also know that a lot of these civilizations, like later versions of it,
took from some of the older
sites and started building new things or built on top of them, like very
disrespectfully.
But nobody had an idea of like the importance of history back then.
You're just trying to stay alive.
And so, they found all these stones.
Let's use these stones.
And so...
Oh my gosh, totally.
In India, like when we were colonized, you hear stories of, you know, the
British officers
telling like little kids that, "Hey, I'll give you two pounds.
Go and get the gold statue from this temple or whatever."
And you don't have comprehension of what the value of historical things were.
That there was so much that was taken from India in terms of wealth and history
and historical
artifacts and the Kohinoor diamond, which is still on the Queen's crown, which
came from India.
And like so many things which were...
The Queen of England?
Yeah.
She has a diamond on her crown that she stole from...
Pull it up.
Kohinoor diamond.
K-O-H-I-N-O.
Give it back.
Yeah, we've been asking for it for a minute.
We have.
Well, the whole history of England and India is nuts too.
That's the diamond.
Whoa, how big is that sucker?
The Queen.
How big is that thing?
Isn't that crazy?
How big would that be?
I think it's like a hundred carats.
Whoa.
What is that worth?
What's a hundred?
Well, besides the historical value of it, which is probably priceless.
What is a hundred and five carats worth?
That's nuts.
A couple of million.
Imagine walking around with a rock like that in your hand.
A couple of million.
Yeah.
I mean, that's what I'm saying.
The royalty in India had so much jewelry and wealth and stuff that was pillaged
and just taken.
Well, the history of India is fascinating.
Like in the Vedic texts and the descriptions of Vimanas.
Have you ever read any of that stuff?
Yeah, the Vedas.
Not extensively, but clearly you have.
The Vimanas.
It's like, what are you talking about?
You're talking about flying crafts?
Yeah.
That's the thing.
If you do a deep dive into the mythology of India and the stories that come
from there,
the kind of technology that has been mentioned in these ancient texts, like the
Vimanas,
you're saying you have flying objects, you have spears with some sort of energy,
you have bows and arrows with some sort of energy that travels beyond time and
light.
And there's so much of all of this stuff referenced back then, which maybe
humans thought was magic,
but was some form of ancient technology.
Like who's to say, but we do definitely believe in Indian mythology.
If you go back into Hinduism and the incredible stories that exist,
like I love to think about where the origin, like where it must have come from.
Yeah.
Um, but there's so many fascinating, fascinating stories from then.
Yeah.
I, I have an opinion that most people that were writing things down back then
were trying to
document a truth.
Yeah, for sure.
I don't think they were trying to make up stories.
No, I think it was definitely their truth.
Yeah.
But from our perspective now, we have to be like, how do you break down the
truth of,
you know, that there was this light that arrived from miles and miles away.
And it felt like, I don't know, was it a bomb?
Like, what was it?
Right.
What was it of that time?
Right.
So it's cool to kind of try and interpret that.
I mean, I, I believe in the mysticism and the magic of ancient humans.
And, you know, the beginning of time, there's no way to explain what and how
that was.
You know, we have the information we do from religious texts and historians of
the past,
but, um, it's just really fascinating to think about how resilient and human
beings have been
and how evolutions have had the same problems over time, but we kind of just
navigated through different worlds.
You know, I think, yeah, I think it's hard for us to grasp timelines.
And then when possible, think about like how short a human lifespan used to be
to where it is now.
Our stories have to come from like people telling people stories or documenting
them.
Right, right. And those stories, like when you're talking about certain
passages in the Bible or
certain passages in any religious text, a lot of those were stories that were
just handed down
for generations and generations before anybody wrote anything.
Yeah.
So it's like, what were they trying to remember?
Like when they're talking about flying Vimanas, like, what were they talking
about?
Like, what did they experience and how long ago was it?
Because I don't think we have a real understanding of how long ago it is.
I mean, 17,000 BC is where or around that time, that's that many years ago is
what they say.
But again, that makes sense.
Who knows?
Well, that makes sense.
If you take into account the 20,000 BC, there's a guy named Randall Carlson,
who's been on my podcast a few times, and he's a really fascinating guy. And he's
an expert in
asteroid collisions with Earth.
Wow.
He's an expert in all the different times that Earth has been slammed by comets
and meteors.
And is that how the dinosaurs?
Yes.
So it did, it was an asteroid.
Yeah, they believe so.
It was in the Yucatan, that one.
That's the 65 billion years ago one.
But there's other ones that are before that.
Before that.
Yeah.
And then there's other ones that are after that.
And one of the more interesting ones is called the Younger Dryas Impact Theory.
And that one's from about 11,800 years ago.
And then again, they think somewhere in the 10,000 years that happened.
So there's a comet storm that we pass by.
I think it's every June and November.
I forget what the time is.
But this is like, also aligns with, do you know about the Tunguska event?
Have you ever heard of that?
No.
In the early 1900s, a meteor exploded in the sky above Russia.
And devastated like a million acres of land.
And it was during the same time period.
And they realized like, there's this comet storm that we pass through.
Like when you see meteor showers in the sky.
It's because we're passing through these areas of our solar system that have
these comets.
This is the Tunguska event.
So it just, and to this day, that area has no trees on it.
Whoa.
Yeah.
So it just flattened everything.
And it didn't even impact the ground.
It blew up in the sky above it.
And this was not even a big one.
So how does like nothing grow again?
Like what?
I don't know.
That's a good question.
What is that asteroid made of that you can, like earth has been able to come
back from so much?
Yeah.
It's a good question.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
Maybe it's just not enough time.
I don't know.
I mean, 117 years, maybe some, maybe eventually, but it probably just blew the
roots off of everything.
It blew everything into smithereens.
And it probably had some kind of chemical effect too, because it's a physical
object.
I don't know what it was made out of, but you know, some of them are made out
of iron.
Some of them are made out of nickel, like that big one that they saw three eye
atlas that passed through.
Yeah.
That was a weird one because they're like, this is a nickel alloy that is as
big as the size of Manhattan.
And the only way we have it on earth is an industrial manufacturing of an alloy.
But this thing in another planet somewhere else, millions and millions and
millions of years ago
was formed under whatever weird circumstances and conditions their planet has.
But you, I mean, I want to know your thoughts on this, but you definitely don't
think we're
like the only species existing in the universe, right?
I don't think that's possible.
It's, it's human arrogance if we think we do.
Yeah, that seems silly.
Yeah.
It doesn't make sense.
There's just too many planets.
No, it's impossible.
It's a, it's a silly thing to think.
And they found evidence of life on Mars.
So they found evidence of some sort of bacterial life on Mars, like the traces
of bacterial life.
And that's, you know, right there.
That's what I'm saying.
Maybe it's just in within our Milky Way that we, I mean, we haven't even been
able
to travel outside of that yet, you know, to get information, but it has, there
has to be
other species, um, that exist and other like intelligence and technology.
Do you know the actor Terrence Howard?
I mean, I know of him.
Fascinating guy.
Like a little kooky, but super smart, like super smart.
He's got some wild ideas.
One of his ideas, I was like, wait, what?
He thinks that life occurs when planets get a certain distance from their sun.
And then over time they get too far out and then life doesn't exist on those
planets anymore.
But when they're in this Goldilocks zone, like earth is for a long period of
time in relative
to our life, life exists and then intelligent life emerges and figures out, hey,
we got to get out of here
eventually because this is not going to sustain us.
And then it propagates the world or the universe rather.
And he thinks that there's a thing that happens and he calls it peopling.
He thinks that when a planet gets far further enough from the sun, that it
eventually peoples
because it eventually reaches the right conditions where life emerges and
evolution takes place
and natural selection and random mutation, all these things converge.
And eventually you get an intelligent creature that knows how to manipulate its
environment.
Is there any proof of planets moving away from their sun?
Well, they all do, slowly, very slowly.
So even our solar system, we're all slowly...
Yeah, and also the sun is eventually going to burn out and explode and then we're
fucked.
But that's a long time from now.
There's enough shit to be worried about.
Nothing's permanent.
We're lucky we have a slow burn sun, so we have a relatively small sun.
And there's a lot of weird speculation that it's part of a binary solar system
too,
that there might have been another version of our sun that burned out that's
like way out there,
like way out in space, like way past Pluto, way out there.
I'd buy that.
It's possible.
I mean, there's a lot of wacky theories as to why there seems to be some large
object
that's outside of our vision that's way, way past Pluto.
So there's a thing called the Kuiper belt that's outside of Pluto,
and that's part of what Pluto is, which is why they decided it's not really a
planet anymore.
But they think there's something else out there that's a large...
They call it Planet X.
They think there's...
It's a lot of like weird speculation whether or not it's real,
but they think there might be a large body, larger than Earth, like Jupiter
size or something,
like way out there.
And it might be a sun.
It might be a burnt out sun.
Like a burnt out sun that was...
Which is crazy.
...insane.
Well, Earth alone, like Earth...
The reason why we have the moon supposedly is because Earth was hit by another
planet.
There's Earth one...
So was the moon part of the Earth?
The moon was like a big chunk of that collision that burst off and then became
the moon.
So there's Earth one and Earth two.
So does that happen with all the planets?
Like because all the planets that have their own moons are explosions maybe?
That's a good question.
I mean, maybe some of them are...
Like Jupiter and Saturn have multiple...
...enormous asteroids that got caught in the gravity and maybe of them...
Maybe it's volcanic activity.
I don't know.
I think a lot of it's asteroid impacts too.
They'd knock off giant chunks and those chunks start orbiting that planet.
So does that mean that all of those planets do have like a gravitational pull
as well?
Oh yeah, they're a pull.
Yeah.
But how strong would that gravitational pull be?
It depends on the mass of the planet.
Like Jupiter, for example.
Jupiter is what protects us.
The reason why we don't get hit a lot is because Jupiter is so big.
So Jupiter has so much mass and so much gravity that it's like our big brother
that like protects us.
Oh, thanks Jupiter.
For real.
Yeah, no, that's great.
And they actually observed an impact on Jupiter.
I want to say it was in the 1980s where an enormous asteroid slammed into
Jupiter and created a earth-sized explosion.
Which separated from...
No, it just got absorbed.
But Jupiter just absorbed it, but they watched it in real time.
And it was a way bigger explosion than they thought it was going to be.
Like, yo, so then they have to like recalculate like, oh, how big was that
thing?
And it made a literal impact as large as the earth.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
I have to see that video.
Well, that's the...
The solar system is just a fucking shooting gallery.
It's...
Which brings us back...
It totally is.
Which brings us back to this Younger Drives impact theory, which is one of the
predominant theories
as to why ancient super advanced civilizations completely disappeared.
There's no evidence of them.
And there's a lot of physical evidence.
When they do core samples of the earth, they find there's a lot of iridium,
which is very common
in space, but very rare on earth, which indicates some sort of an impact.
Wow.
And then they also find micro diamonds, these nuclear diamonds.
I think they call it trinitite.
And they first observed this when they did the Trinity explosion.
So the nuclear explosion created these micro diamonds on the ground, just some
massive
impact and explosion, heat and energy.
Well, they find those littered all throughout the world in this same core
sample timeline
of like 11,800 years.
So they think we were just bombarded.
So a lot of these things like these temples in India, perhaps the pyramids,
some structures
that were stone, probably just survived.
No, for sure.
There's so much that has survived, I think, from like a timeline we can't even
explain.
I mean, in India, we see so much of it.
So many of our texts, the Vedas are, you know, the oldest texts in the world.
And to be able to like read stories, which now maybe we imagine our stories,
but are probably reality of a civilization gone by is just crazy to think about.
I think more likely than not.
Yeah.
And I think more and more over time, people are opening up, opening up to this
possibility.
Like they recently just found written language that is 28,000 years old.
And that they thought that human written language was created about 6,000 years
ago.
And they found evidence about this.
So they're like, okay, that's a giant difference.
But how can we also know what happened in so many parts of the earth when
anyway,
the earth was moving?
Like the continents, what it looks like right now is not what it probably
looked like 20,000 years ago.
Like it's been slowly moving.
I feel like how are we supposed to know like someone who writes a book, say in
Mexico, like what happened then in Australia or what happened?
What was the history in like India?
You know what I mean?
Right.
Right.
Especially 15, you know, the 1500s, 1600s.
That many years ago.
Yeah, years ago.
When they were writing about stuff back then, they were just making shit up.
So the shit that we read.
Here it is.
Human may have used these mysterious symbols to encode information tens of
thousands of years before the first writing systems.
40,000 year old artifacts.
Yeah, so it's some kind of way of documenting things.
Of communicating.
You know, if these people like Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson are correct,
there was some sort of a very, very advanced civilization pre 11,800 years ago.
And this also coincides with the end of the ice age.
It coincides with all of the ice caps over North America disappearing.
Like North America was covered, like three quarters of North America was
covered like a mile high sheet of ice.
Went away like that.
That's why the Great Lakes exist.
The Great Lakes are just that ice melted.
Melted.
And then whatever was left just ran through the country.
And you can see the physical evidence of it when they show satellite images.
It looks like enormous amounts of water just destroyed the landscape and
completely carved it and changed it.
What do you think happened with, and I wonder if you have, because you have so
much extensive knowledge with the amazing guests that you have on the show,
how did we go from Neanderthal or early man to this technology driven, like
really smart, intelligent?
Like what happened in history, in the evolution of human beings that we were
able to make that switch so quick?
It's a real good question.
There's a lot of, you know,
I mean, I've heard theories, but I want to know yours.
If I didn't worry at all about being ridiculous, and I don't, I would--
You don't.
There was no need for that precursor.
But if I didn't worry about that, I would say something helped us.
That's what I think.
Yeah.
I don't think, I don't think it makes sense that that didn't take place.
Yeah.
It's crazy to think about how that happened and how quickly it happened.
Well, yeah, there's a, there's a lot of like weird stuff with us.
Also, all those other primates are still around, except the early man ones.
You know, that's what's weird.
It's like, why aren't, you know, how come chimpanzees are kind of the same?
How come all these other primates are kind of the same?
And yet we need clothes to stay warm out.
Yeah, like a mammoth to an elephant.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like, still similar.
Yeah, it makes sense.
Why, how do we have like planes?
And why do we like things?
And how could we make cups?
And yeah, why do we change our environment that way?
Why do we have this insatiable desire to innovate?
Insatiable.
Like we, that's the number one thing that we do.
Constantly changing.
Constantly making new and better things.
Never satisfied with anything new.
Everything has to be better.
It doesn't matter how good your car is.
What's the next year's model going to be?
Yeah.
No matter what your phone does.
I want better pictures, bitch.
Like, no matter what, it's always like, we want something to be better all the
time.
And it's like...
We can one up what we had.
What is that?
I think it's built into us.
And I think that is a part of this process of becoming a human being.
And I think it's leading us to develop AI.
That's what I really think.
But I think we, most likely, something intervened.
Now, there's a lot of people that think, the rational people think that it was
the invention of
fire and the cooking of food that gave us better access to nutrition and
protein.
And then innovating in order to hunt allowed the brain.
But it was such an accelerated period of time.
It went, like, so quickly.
The human brain size doubled over a period of two million years,
which is the greatest mystery in the entire fossil record.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
Like, what made that happen?
We don't know.
But in religious texts, ancient religious texts, there's many stories of human
beings
breeding with something from somewhere else.
That's a part of the...
Alien intervention.
Yes.
Right.
Without trying to sound ridiculous.
Hyper intelligent life form.
But if you think about it, if...
I was watching a show about that and I was like, that makes sense.
What was the show you were watching?
Do you remember?
Ancient Aliens.
That show's the best.
It's so silly.
It's amazing.
But I was like two in the morning.
I'm like, oh.
My friend Action Bronson, he used to do a show.
He doesn't do that show anymore, does he?
They would get super baked and watch Ancient Aliens and be like, bro.
Ancient Aliens is rad.
I love that show.
Two in the morning.
Oh, it's fun.
It's very fun.
I think they're right about some of those things.
I think there's something to it.
I mean, that is one of the oldest biblical texts that wasn't included in the
canon that
is the Bible is the Book of Enoch.
And I had Anna Paulina Luna on the podcast and she was, she brought that up.
And I was like, she was like, you really should read that.
So I read it and you start reading, you're like, wait, what the hell are they
talking about?
The watchers came down from the sky to mate with humans and created the Nephilim,
a race of giants that destroyed the earth.
You're like, what are you talking about?
Like, what is this?
This is in the Bible.
And it would have been in the Bible, but not for a few rabbis that decided this
doesn't
jive with the Torah.
And so they say, we got to get that out of there.
And that's why it's not taught along with the Book of Ezekiel and all these
other things that
are in the Old Testament.
Wow.
Versus like in Hindu mythology also, you know, we read about a time where God,
human and demon
existed at the same time and procreated and like created different realms and,
you know,
life and stories and, and the, you know, so it's like when you think about
stories like that stories,
beliefs, you know, from around the world that have similar sort of, um, color.
Yeah.
It's almost like trying to connect the dots of what must have happened at that
time,
you know, all around the world.
It's probably the same thing, you know, some sort of incredible technology.
Yeah.
And some, and a lot of them have these stories of something of some kind of
higher nature,
higher power, higher technology intervening in the lives of human beings and
even manipulating
the, the process.
Yeah.
But isn't that what I think was referred to as the gods?
Yes.
Like if you think about the Roman, um, you know, or Egyptian, like gods, I'm
not
one to speak about culture, but I can't even say about ours, but that power
that we read about,
you know, that like, if you, if you go into it, I'm, I'm a big believer.
So I think that, you know, was that like a real experience experience that
happened to a human
being at that time?
It was probably a real experience with someone that had a limited vocabulary,
a limited amount of knowledge and the limited ability to write things down.
And so they probably stole, told these stories from whatever words they could
use to describe
what this was.
Like if you were living 30,000 years ago, 40,000 years ago and a UFO landed, a
giant
metallic disc landed and little tiny creatures came out and talked to you telepathically,
you don't have a written language.
You don't, your, your culture is hunter gatherers.
Like how do you tell that story?
How do you tell that story?
And what are the people that you told that story to going to tell their
children
and their grandchildren for many, many, many, many generations
before anybody figures out how to write things down?
Totally.
But another perspective on this, which people have is,
is that our pragmatic, practical 2026 human trying to explain something that
was magical
and did exist at a time that we, we, we don't have an explanation for.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
For sure.
Like there's the other side of that with people that, you know, you hear so
many stories of
visitations from the gods back then, you know, to humans and the divinity of at
least in my country,
for sure, um, of different avatars of gods coming down to earth to save humankind
and to help in
human salvation and to help them, um, against evil.
So when you hear of those stories, like the practical side of me would be like,
are those human stories
and who is that, that power that they were seeing at that time?
And then there's a side of you, which is like, there's so much we can't explain
and sometimes have to like, leave it to inexplicable magic of the universe.
Like I am someone who loves science, but I also am a believer of that.
It just can't explain everything.
Well, even science itself, like hardcore materialist science.
Totally.
If you're trying to explain the big bang, good fucking luck.
Good fucking luck.
Making sense out of something smaller than the head of a pin that became
everything that's in the universe.
Okay.
Like, explain that to me.
Help me out.
Totally.
I mean, it's all theoretical and speculative and no one really knows.
And then there's this concept of what took place before the big bang.
And then there's Sir Roger Penrose's version of it,
which is, there's been many versions of the big bang expansion, then
contraction,
and that it's not the beginning, that it's part of an endless cycle.
That's what I've, I mean, I've heard from in India as well,
the believer belief that that was not kind of the beginning.
There's been many beginnings and many ends that we have no idea of.
That makes more sense to me.
It makes more sense.
Because I think the problem with a beginning, we're like, well, what was here
originally?
We always want to think of things in terms of our own biological limitations.
We have a birth and we have a death.
So we think that the universe probably had a birth.
Everything has a limitation.
Right.
Yeah.
But why?
It's there.
It's like time.
What is time's limitation?
It's existed from who knows when.
Right.
It's constant.
It's never not been here.
Yeah.
So the idea that there was nothing before the universe, well, that doesn't even
make sense.
It's funny.
When I was doing research for The Bluff, this movie, I went to the Cayman
Islands for a couple
of days to get an understanding of the history of the islands.
And the Caribbean is so interesting, especially Cayman, because it's in the
middle of these trading
routes between Honduras, Cuba, Mexico.
So ships when trading started is when the Cayman was discovered.
The islands were discovered.
So when I went down there, I went to the museum and they said, yeah, it was
like the 1700s or
1800s when the first settlers came.
And, you know, it started with family or like people trying to run away or
pirates or, you know,
just people making pit stops before going to another country.
And they said that that was the first time that there was any history of the
island.
And I was like, how's that possible?
That only when like settlers found that place.
And now, I mean, Cayman Islands, Cayman Islands.
Right.
But how, like, if you think about there's so many places in the world where
people and humans have
existed way before we even have an understanding of, or are willing to
acknowledge, you know,
in many cultures, it's different.
Yeah.
But, um,
Well, we just lost the history of it.
That's possible too.
That's what my argument was.
I was like, you know, like we have to have lost the history of what happened
prior.
There's an entire culture from South America that we don't know who they were.
The Olmecs.
They, we have some giant carved heads and we're like, oh, who did that?
They think it's like thousands and thousands of years old.
They look African.
It's very strange.
Have you seen Olmec heads?
Oh, look like this.
That's an Olmec head.
Like, how nuts is that?
Like that's a replica of these enormous heads that are in, um, I think, is it
Peru?
Luke Caverns, who's been on the podcast.
Yeah.
He's a really fascinating guy who does a lot of research down there.
He, uh, he's been there and documented and he's like, they don't know who these
people were.
They don't know what their language was.
They don't even know what they looked like except for these images and they don't
even know if these images are supposed to be of them.
Like these statues.
They just found, see if you can find some of these heads so you can see like
the, the, um, scale.
Oh, crazy.
So they left these enormous stone heads.
They attributed to this one civilization that they call the Olmecs.
They just made a name up, but they don't know who the hell these people were.
And look at their faces.
Like that's crazy.
That's huge.
Yeah.
And do you know how old these might be?
They don't really know, but I think that how many thousands of years old do
they think they are, Jamie?
Crazy stuff.
Yeah.
So at least 900 BC, but you know, what does that mean?
Yeah.
That's a guess.
That's a guess.
Cause they don't know anything a long time ago.
Well, even the Aztecs, do you know the Aztecs didn't build those temples?
They found them.
The Aztecs found that the Aztec temples?
They found them from an unknown previous civilization.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
They call those temples the place where the gods were born.
Yeah.
That's what they call them.
And they just kind of like cleaned it up.
Which kind of makes sense.
Cause you think of like how barbaric the Aztecs were.
Like they did some horrific shit.
Like we were talking about one of the, the temples.
I think it was Tenochtitlan when they consecrated it.
Um, they killed between 20 and 80,000 people.
They sacrificed them in a period of four days.
And so this is like right when the Spanish were first visiting Mexico,
thinking about taking over.
And this, this guy Diaz, this Spanish chronicler said it was the fucking
craziest thing.
They killed 80,000 people.
He said over a period of four days, just cut their hearts out and threw their
bodies down the stairs.
Like nuts.
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Like, so these are the people that were-
Yeah, you think about like how countries were like conquests happen and like,
you know, we're living in the history of so many people's blood and, and
sacrifices.
And violence.
And so much violence.
Unfathomable amount of violence.
How are humans so capable of that kind of like, of violence?
Having done a really violent movie right now?
Because chimps, because we're mostly chimp.
And I think if you pay attention to chimps, like if you ever see Chimp Nation
on Netflix?
No, I haven't.
It's fantastic.
It's just, it's spectacular because it is a rare, very rare situation where
this one particular group
of chimpanzees, they were embedded with these scientists for 20 years.
So the scientists had very specific rules.
Don't get within 20 yards of them.
Don't make eye contact with them.
Don't have any food with you.
Okay.
And don't, don't interfere.
And they're, they're totally accustomed to having people around them.
So they behave totally naturally.
Yeah.
And so they wage war.
They have all these like crazy social dynamics.
So they behave like they would in the wild because they're used to these humans.
Exactly.
And when you watch it, you're like, oh my God, they are a lot like us.
They're a lot like us.
Just like very primitive, no language, but, but ultra violent, ultra chimps are
ultra violent.
I mean that one of their favorite foods, this guy was telling me was monkeys.
They just love eating monkeys.
He goes, we saw them kill so many monkeys.
We couldn't even document it.
Oh my God.
He goes, cause if it would just be like, every day was like a monkey hunt, they
would tear
these monkeys apart and eat them alive.
It's a horrific, that's, that's our ancestors.
So what we are is a combination.
Like if you can.
Well, that explains it.
Yeah.
It explains it.
We're a combination of some higher intelligence that interbred with a savage
primate.
That's curious and created this weird hybrid, this weird thing.
So that's what ancient aliens told me.
Yeah.
And I believe it.
I think they're right.
They're right about that.
Have you ever seen chariots of the gods?
No.
That's the original one.
Eric Von Daniken.
That was in like the 1970s.
It was a movie, like a feature movie.
I mean, I remember the movie, but I don't remember.
Yeah.
I had lunch with him once.
Got a chance to question him about stuff.
He's a, like a true believer.
Yeah.
Like a true believer.
What are his beliefs?
Well, he believes that everything is from aliens, that aliens came down and
aliens taught
people how to do things and aliens built all these things.
And I'm more in line of they intervened and created what we think of now as
humans.
And then humans figured out a different path of technology than we're on today.
That we are on the path of internal combustion engines, electronics,
electricity, and they were
probably on some different path of technology, but as far down the path, if not
more.
And I think they probably had figured out some things that we have yet to
figure out,
including like the transferring and the moving and shipping of enormous stone
blocks without
heavy machinery.
Like we don't know what they were doing.
Teleportation.
Yeah.
I don't know.
How did they cut them?
Like what are they, what are they, what, if those structures that Filippo Biondi
describes underneath, if that's real, like what was the pyramid then?
And how, yeah, how did they do, like first they created the structure,
like imagine the foundation and the design that went into it.
A half a mile deep into the earth.
Crazy.
Like, what is that?
What are you doing?
Because I'm saying, I don't know if I, like, I just know that we can't explain
that quick evolution of humans from Neanderthal to-
We can't.
And all-
Highly intelligent.
Yes, we can't.
Yeah.
I mean, there's just a lot of people saying, well, we haven't filled in the
gaps yet.
Yeah.
We don't really know.
But the, the acceleration of the evolution is so spectacular.
Like vegans are hilarious.
They attribute it to people eating tubers.
I had a conversation with a guy.
He's like, we're thinking it's probably tubers.
Like what, roots?
You mean like bears eat?
Shut the fuck up.
That is the dumbest explanation.
That didn't even make any sense.
I'm vegan.
Are you really?
No, I'm joking.
Congratulations.
There's no way you could be.
No, I just had barbecue.
You would already fall asleep.
For breakfast, I had brisket.
I was like, I'm here in Austin for two hours.
Yeah, you have to have barbecue if you come here.
Yeah.
I just think that whatever happened, we don't know.
And I would not rule out intervention.
And I wouldn't think that an intelligent species from somewhere else, if they
did find
these very curious primates that may already be working with sticks and rocks
and stuff like that,
that they wouldn't intervene because we do it.
We're doing it right now.
We're doing it right now with animals.
It's human nature to do it.
If we went to a planet somewhere and we found some fucking frogs or some weird
animals,
but nothing big.
We might drop a deer off in there and see what happens.
You know, we might bring some birds in.
He and Zephanie would.
We would intervene.
They're doing genetic manipulation of animals right now to bring back extinct
life.
That's how they brought back the dire wolf.
This company called Colossal, Colossal Bioworks, I saw it.
I touched it.
I went to the place where they're holding these wolves.
And I got to, me and my daughter got to cuddle with a baby dire wolf.
They had two semi-adults at the time.
I think they were like eight or nine months old.
And they've been extinct since when?
10,000 years.
Stop it.
Yeah, somewhere in the range of that.
I mean, yeah.
When did dire wolves go extinct?
I think they were part of the megafauna that went extinct during the impact
because 65% of all megafauna on Earth, and particularly in North America,
went extinct around the same time.
Wooly mammoths.
And do we know why?
Around the same time?
There's a lot of hypotheses.
Like, was there something that happened then?
The rational people, not me, but the rational people think it was the berserker
theory,
which means that human beings killed so many mammoths that we wiped them out to
extinction.
Unbelievable.
But this is with atlatls.
Like, it doesn't make total sense.
Okay, yeah.
It's like, how did you get, there's not even that many people.
How'd you do that?
Yeah.
And then there's also stuff like the American lion, which was bigger than the
African lion.
How do we kill that off with a fucking stick?
Like, shut the fuck up.
Something had to have happened.
Well, they found mass grave sites of mammoths, where there's like hundreds of
them dead,
all in one place that seem to have died at the same time.
Not only that, some of them have broken legs.
It seems to indicate some great impact.
Yeah, so it had to have been like some asteroid or something that created that
kind of impact
immediately.
But 65% of all North American megafauna died at the same time.
That's so crazy.
Yeah, within the time period.
And they think that the younger dry ice impact theory people think like,
this is not a coincidence that this coincides with the end of the ice age and
also coincides
with where the core samples of people were hit.
Too many coincidences.
Yeah, and also that coincides with the fact that these animals were all here at
one point
in time.
They all got wiped out, except a very few.
There's only a few left.
Like there's the pronghorn antelope, which is a really weird one.
It's this prehistoric antelope that lives in North America.
And it's different than every other animal here, because it's evolved to get
away from cheetahs.
Because we used to have cheetahs in North America.
So it can run like 55 miles in books.
Wow.
I've seen them in real life.
They're really weird looking.
They look prehistoric.
But can run.
They fly.
Wow.
That's what it looks like.
See if you can get a look at its face.
When you see it head on, they're so strange.
Like their eyeballs are on the sides of their heads because something was
coming at them.
Like, you know, 55 miles an hour at full clip.
And so they're really, really alert.
And they have incredible vision.
Wow.
And that's a leftover animal.
That's a leftover animal from a time where they were being preyed upon by
something that doesn't
exist anymore.
And that something was wiped out along with the American lion.
Well, a bigger lion than the African lion lived right here.
Huge.
Yeah, huge.
I was filming in Africa recently in Kenya.
And we, for this Indian movie I'm doing called Varanasi, and we shot with wildebeests
and like,
as in like, in the middle of them.
I was, me and my co-actor Mahesh were in the middle of these wildebeests that
were all around
us while they were migrating.
It's like the coolest thing I've ever seen.
But when you see their faces and for how many years versions of them have
existed, you know,
you feel the gravity when you see these animals in the wild.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
It's so much different than a zoo, right?
Oh, completely.
Because you're like, oh, they've always been here like this.
Yeah, this is their home.
This is what they do.
We're in it.
You feel a sense of like, stay in your Jeep.
Well, I think we're numb to it because we watch it on film.
And so that we get sort of desensitized and normalized to this idea of wildlife.
Oh, there's the lion sneaking up on the wildebeest.
How cool.
Yeah.
But when you're there and you see a lion, you see a wildebeest, like this is
fucking crazy.
Yeah.
This is all day long, every day, these life forms competing to try to exist and
stay alive.
To survive.
That's it.
And there's this weird balance where all of them, you know.
They still exist.
Yeah.
They can, there'll be wildebeest right there and there'll be a lion right here
who's eaten.
So they're hanging out together.
The wildebeest knows that he's eaten.
He's not coming after us.
And they exist.
But at the same time there, you know, during hunting season, you see the hunt
happen.
And I saw a hunt happen.
And that's, that's crazy that that's their life.
Yeah.
It's alive.
With their face.
They kill things with their face.
Yeah.
Like literally, it's crazy.
There's a really extraordinary island in Africa where the river changed courses.
And it left this, this one pack of lions on this one island that only has water
buffalo on it.
And so these lions became enormous.
And the female lions are as big as male lions everywhere else.
And the male lions are way bigger than they are anywhere else.
I think there's the documentaries.
I think it's called Relentless Enemies.
But it's so, because they look like these jacked bodybuilder lions.
Those water buffaloes are huge and hyper aggressive.
I had one staring at me like we were in Kenya.
I'm like the video villages and they were filming and it's far away.
But it just turned his head and just looked at me and then just kept looking at
me.
And I swear I had to like get up and get out of its view because it just kept
staring.
I was like, it's coming at me.
They will come at you.
Yeah, for sure.
They kill people.
The rangers told us.
They were like, I think he's engaged with you maybe.
Maybe get out of here.
Get into your car.
Yeah.
There's that poor lady from who she was a video editor on the Game of Thrones.
And she went to do a safari there and it pulled one, one of the lions pulled
her out of her car.
Out of her car?
Yeah.
She rolled the window down or someone rolled the window down and a female lion
just snatched
her out of the car and killed her.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You have to listen to your rangers.
Yeah.
When you're in these situations.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I mean, she wanted a better picture or something.
I don't know what the circumstances is.
It's the shit that gets people into trouble.
Oh, yeah.
Like there was this one of our rangers was telling us a story that they have.
We were in Masai Mara and they were like, they have open jeeps and you know,
you have food
that they keep really hidden so that the animals can't smell it under your
seats and stuff.
And he was telling a story about this influencer.
He's driving and you know, there's a pack of lions.
Lions just eaten.
So he's sleeping.
And this influencer who puts his hand outside to try and touch the lion's head
and got it on video and survived to tell the story.
And then he was banned and the ranger was like fired from his job and all of
that happened.
But for the image, can you imagine?
What a fucking idiot.
All for the gram.
My gosh, that was crazy.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't want anything bad to happen to anybody.
But when someone does something like that and does get killed, it's probably
better.
Educationally for the human race.
But is it though?
Or are we, are we really learning from other people and their examples?
Some people aren't learning shit.
Nobody's learning.
We're just trying to put the best, best versions of ourselves on the ground.
Like that's what the, that's what's happening right now.
It's whether it's true or not.
Yeah.
But are we learning?
Yeah, that's a good question.
I don't know.
I mean, I think we are also so desensitized to,
there's so much information that comes your way and misinformation now.
Where being able to discern what's real and what's not now, that's hard as well.
Oh, it's harder than it's ever been.
Totally.
And then if you do watch something and you're like, I'm going to implement in
my life.
We do it for a very short duration.
Very few of us follow through with that, right?
Like you're watching a reel or somebody says something and you're like, that's
really cool.
Are we going to pull on that thread and follow through and do something about
it or learn from it?
I don't know.
I feel like we've lost a lot of that space where we had the time or the desire
to want to,
you know, fulfill ourselves versus just that with so much coming at you.
You have to be able to-
I think collectively as a society, I think we learn and then we forget and then
we have to relearn again.
Yeah.
You know, that's-
But the attention span now where, you know, I remember when I was growing up,
like just having the languidity of time, right?
In a very different way.
And this is like, say 30 years ago, 30, 35 years ago of, you know, reading a
book, music playing,
hanging out with your parents or your friends without being rushed, just rushed.
You know, I don't remember feeling as rushed as I do now in the last 20 years
when I was growing up.
Like there was time for stuff.
Yeah.
Well, certainly the internet has accelerated that, you know, and certainly
people's attention spans
are at least pulled in the direction of short attention span content.
But at the same time, podcasts have emerged, which is interesting.
It's so interesting.
Like I was talking about this to a friend of mine, like people who have no time
or interest
in wanting to commit to like say a movie or some will watch or listen to like a
podcast for
two or three hours.
And for someone like me who, you know, like I've been an actor for most of my
life,
my interface with people would be, you know, an interview, say, for example,
people who knew me or audiences that wanted to know about me would be an
interview where,
you know, the highlights are really what you read.
The clickbait lines are really what you read.
And you form a relationship with whoever this public person is based on those
few lines versus
this format where you're just chatting for a few hours and you have the ability
to really be
yourself and be seen as yourself, which is why I think people really love
podcasts.
Well, I think it's much more illuminating in terms of if you want to like find
out who
a person really is because you can't really hide for three hours. Like that's
who you are.
And I think for most people, that's scary. Right. And so what they like about
those fake shows,
like good morning America or whatever it is. You know what I mean? Like you're
sitting down,
you know, the guy's got a piece of paper. So he's got a few questions he's
going to ask you.
And they're all going to be like very surface, very jovial. What's it like to
be married?
You know, what's it like to do this? What's it like to do that? So you had a
baby, congratulations,
that kind of shit. And then you're out of there. It's 10 minutes and you're
like, oh, that went well.
And then nobody knows anything about you.
It's true that you're just basically known by the top four questions that
everybody asks you.
So it's like the same four questions that everybody asks.
Right. And what was it like to work with this person? What was she like in
person? What was he like?
For me, mostly it's like a lot about my family. Like it's like that my identity
starts there.
And then everything else comes after.
Well, you're fascinating in that you you've done movies in two different
cultures.
So like I wanted to ask you about that. Like what is the Bollywood scene like?
Because I wasn't even
aware of it until like 20 years ago. I didn't know that like Bollywood is like
this enormous,
like the amount of films that are produced in India is kind of crazy.
Yeah. It's a big business.
Huge. Huge.
Hundred and something years of Indian cinema just recently.
So a very, very old industry. We started with silent movies and have worked our
way
now too. And that's not just Bollywood. I'll break that down in a second.
Because India is so diverse and we have so many different languages. Again,
excuse me,
I didn't know the exact number, but we have local industries that make movies
in those languages.
So Bollywood is Bombay. It comes from Bombay. I think that's why it was coined
that name
from Hollywood. But the Bombay movie industry, again, it was not
us that did that. It was a name that was given to us. I don't know by who,
but Bollywood is the Hindi language industry, which exists in Mumbai, which is
like LA. It's huge.
It's, you know, we make thousands and thousands of movies, but then there's
also Telugu, Tamil,
Punjabi, Malayalam, Marathi,
Bhojpuri. These are all robust industries that are localized within every state
that also exists. So
cumulatively, we make thousands and thousands of movies a year, but it's catered
to very, very
different audiences within the diversity of India.
Wow. And how many people have come from India like you and become stars in
Western movies?
I think there have been a few before me, you know, that have, uh, done work.
That first one I heard of. So no one's made it to me yet.
Well, thank you. Um, yes, I think that it's been few and far in between. I
think America is a really
hard country to break into, uh, to be relevant in. It's, uh, tough. And also
like, I think Hollywood,
um, controls a large part of the global entertainment business. So as an actor
from anywhere in the
world, if you want to break into the English language, global entertainment,
Hollywood system,
um, it's not easy to, to do that. Uh, you know, culturally it's different.
Language is different.
Jokes are different. Um, so that's a tough transition, but it's also like for
me, I, I really, I went to
high school. Oh, by the way, you went to Newton and I went to Newton too. Did
you really? I went to
Newton North. You went to Newton South. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. So I was in,
I was in high school
in the States and I, you know, so it wasn't like alien to me. It's not like I
was in India and I was like,
I want to go to America and start working there. Um, I really wanted to see
what it would be like
if I came down here. Would there be an opportunity for someone like me to, you
know, be able to create
an impact? Um, many years later, I feel like, you know, I'm on my way there. Uh,
but there have been so
many actors whose shoulders I've stood on. So Indian, like Indian casting in
English language
entertainment, whether it was Hollywood or, you know, British entertainment,
wherever was usually
by us seen as, you know, a diversity check. So it was mostly a stereotypical
actor or a
stereotypical character with an actor having to speak in the accent or having
to like do the
be a little bit more Indian. What does that even mean? Did someone tell you
that I was told in an
audition, I think we needed the character to be a little bit more Indian. And I
just like,
didn't even understand why there's so many versions of that. But I think what
the, like this person
meant was have a little bit more of the accent. Yeah. Be the character. Yeah.
Be the character,
which was really tough to break out of. So, you know, at a time when it was
only that work that
existed in Hollywood, like those are the actors whose shoulders I stand on.
Like those were the ones
that went in and did that work because that was all that was available and, you
know, tried to break
through, um, especially from like India, for example, uh, Aishwarya Rai, um, Amitabh
Bachchan,
Irfan Khan. They've been actors that have come in, done work and, you know,
left an amazing mark.
But I moved here. I live here now. Um, and you know, I'm, I'm consistently
working here. I think
that also may have been a part of why you've heard of me. Yes, I'm sure. Well,
I've seen you
interviewed too, which is why I thought you were interesting, but thank you. I
appreciate that.
Um, but I think you're very interesting. I think your, um, knowledge of the
world is fascinating to me.
Well, um, it's all accidental. Cool. How cool is that? Yeah,
It's cool. That's amazing. I started this thing out with, uh, my friend Brian
and a laptop.
We were just talking shit. We just thought it'd be fun to like do like a little
internet. Wow. How
inspiring. And, uh, that was 16 years ago. You're someone who's pivoted your
career so many times too,
though. You know, sort of, but all, it's all the same thing in that I've only
just done things I'm
interested in other than Fear Factor. Yeah. That was just a job. You know, I
also hosted Fear Factor.
Did you? No. Shut up. For one year. Really? I did. Where? In Brazil. In India.
Shut the
fuck up. That's crazy. And we shot it in Brazil in Rio. Wow. That's nuts. We
have such random things
in common. That is crazy. That's a crazy thing in common. I need to see that.
Let me see that.
Find a clip. This is hilarious. What language did you do it in? Hindi. Wow. And
it was in Rio, huh?
We shot it in Rio. We had a big budget that year. So we were all flown out. So
it's Fear Factor
India. I wonder how many versions of Fear Factor they were. I mean, they're,
they're all over the world.
Really? Yeah. Fear Factor used to exist all over. I don't know anymore, but
back in the day. Once I
stopped doing it, I stopped paying attention. I was like, I'm out. Me too. So I
knew Ludacris took
it over at one point in time and now Johnny Knoxville's doing it. That's all I
knew. I had no idea that
there was a bunch of different language versions of it. All over the world.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, it originally came from a Holland show called Now or Neverland. It's
a crazy show. Yeah.
It was, uh, it was, it was way more simple. And then when it got brought to
America, they decided to
call it Fear Factor. The whole eating thing, we didn't take that back to India.
Really? Yeah, we didn't do the
eating. Like, because you know, you never know people are vegetarian. In India,
it's a big part of
our culture where a lot of people religiously are vegetarian or not. I think
maybe that's the reason,
but there was not a lot of like, eat the worms and stuff, which I was very
grateful for. It was a lot
more, you know, a cliff and falling off the cliff. And I remember there was
this one, which was crazy,
this 16 wheeler, which was driving at 60 miles an hour. And everyone had to
take their vehicle
underneath it. Oh yeah. And underneath it and come out. Yikes. It was insane.
That's crazy. I didn't
have to do it, which is great. I was just hosting. Yeah, we did a lot of stuff
where I was like, we
barely got through that without killing somebody. Yeah. And the death waivers.
Yeah. Everyone had to sign
a death waiver. Oh yeah. I was like, why would you do a show where you have to
sign a death waiver? Yeah.
And you can only win like $50,000 and you might not win. You're probably not
going to win. There's a
bunch of other people on the show and you could very easily get hurt. Yeah.
Yeah. But people want to be
famous. They want to be on TV. They're like, I want to be on TV. Yeah. Once it
became popular and
successful, it was really easy to get people to do it too. Everybody wanted to
sign up. But I mean,
there are like protective measures obviously, but it's a little, we made them
ride bulls. We did too.
We put people on bulls. Yeah. I was, and there were a few that were like, no, I'm
not doing this.
I'm out. I told people not to do it. When I was talking to them off camera, I
said, don't do it. I
wouldn't do it. Don't do it. I would never do it. No way. But people did it.
Look at you.
What year was this? Please, I can't even remember. Look at you. It looks like a
fear factor scene.
It is. I was on a helicopter. So do you know what year this was? Oh, I can't.
Did it
say that? It just didn't say. I don't know. I could check, but. Wow. Rio. I've
been to that.
I stood outside the helicopter as well. It was some fun stuff. Rio's amazing.
Wow. That's crazy. That is so funny. It's just like, so what did you guys do
for the second
stunt if you didn't do a gross thing? You just did a second scary thing? We did
like scary things,
mostly. Oh, wow. Well, it's probably better, honestly. I mean,
there were gross things too. Like there's Brazilian, you know, red eyed deviled
rats that were
put all over you with like tongue and eyeballs and stuff, but you didn't have
to consume it.
Right. It was on you. Yeah. You didn't have to eat it. A lot of the consuming
it was psychological.
You get, you get really accustomed to it and then it's like nothing.
I mean, listen, that people have eaten crazy things through history, right? To
stay alive. To stay alive.
Yeah. And like, if we take our mind out of like, oh my gosh, this is gross.
Then it's not. Well, the thing is a lot of what we were serving as gross was
some people's food.
Like Balut. Like my friends from Filipino friends, they were like, bro, I eat
that all the time.
Like, that's crazy. I would, that would have been no problem. This is a current,
I heard a more
updated season. What? Oh my God. I'm telling you, it's crazy. Lions and your,
what if that thing
pops open and you got to roll that thing around with lions there? Oh, the lions
are duking it out
with each other. Fuck that. That's crazy. Yeah. Like I went to, I recently was
on Fallon and there was some
bluffing game that we were doing because the movie is called a bluff. And, um,
you know, I said to
Jimmy, I was like, I eat worms. And he was like, no way, no way. You don't eat
worms. But these worms
are a delicacy in, in Zimbabwe. And I was introduced to them. Um, I don't know
exactly the history, but
I was told during segregation, you know, people, black people were put or in
areas where that weren't very
fertile. You couldn't really grow your crops and you know, your animals. And
they were, um,
so this was a way of like protein and they're very high. These are these fat
caterpillars high in
protein and they're made in a curry. And when you actually eat them, it's like
chicken. I'm telling
you, it's like, it was psychological, but well, you know, cicadas, those things
that come out,
people eat them here all the time. They bake them fried baked. Yeah. And
apparently they're delicious.
I haven't had one of those, but I haven't either. I actually did when I was in
ninth grade.
Oh wow. That's what it looks like. Yeah. That's crazy. But look at like
the, they're made out of, they're made into a curry. I made a, I ate, I not
made, I ate a tomato
hornworm on fear factor. I had a bunch of things when I was on the show. I was
like, there's nothing
going into my mouth in fear. I ate a sheep's eyeball in the first episode
because the first episode I
felt bad that the people were on the show. Yeah. So you were like, I'm going to,
I'll eat it too.
All right. And they didn't show me eating it, but I'm like, I'm going to eat it.
Cause you guys
have to eat it. And then I ate a roach to try to convince a lady that she could
eat a roach.
I ate worms. I ate, uh, an Iraqi cave spider. I ate. What was a spider like?
Just chewy. But was it,
the taste is not bad. Was it alive when you ate it? Oh yeah. For the first
couple seconds.
Yeah. Um, yeah, the, all the things that I ate were alive other than the
eyeball. Yeah. The roach,
the roach was alive. All those things were alive. Yeah. I put a cricket and a
live cricket in my
mouth. That's the Iraqi cave spider. How do you put that in your mouth? Like
this. Look at those
sides. You make sure you don't get those pinchers cause those. Oh yeah. Yeah.
Oh. Yep. Wasn't that
bad. I'm telling you, it's psychological. So you've got to get the body in and
not the pinchers. Yeah.
The pinchers have to stay out. Yeah. I grab the pinchers to hold on to the body.
Yeah. That's the trick.
Shut the rest of it. Like just that. Yeah. People freaking out. But I'm telling
you,
it's all psychological. It for sure is. Yeah. That was, that was in Vegas.
Everybody was playing roulette. Oh yeah. No. Um, but it's not that bad. It's
just in your head.
It is psychological. The actual flavor of it is, it's not gross. Yeah, it's not.
The tomato
hormone was kind of nasty. I mean, if you, if, if you're someone who's not
vegetarian, it's like,
you just have to get the, it's the psychology of it. Right. Exactly. Yeah. We
made people eat
an entire ostrich egg. That was disgusting because the volume, like you're
eating an egg that's that
big. Yeah. Is it like really fatty, like fatty? It's raw. You're eating it raw.
They just cut the
top off of the egg and you have to drink it. You have to drink this gigantic
white and yolk.
All right. My brisket's coming. The barbecue. But it's so oddly compelling.
It's oddly compelling watching people eat disgusting things and struggling.
I mean, I have to say I did enjoy the show. That's the egg. That lady had to
drink that whole egg. Oh my God. Did she puke? I can't. You got to hold it down
and then you can puke
after you're done. But if you puke in the middle of it, you're just qualified.
Yes. They get rid of you.
That's a wrap. If you puke in the middle of it. I would not be able to do the
American version.
Yeah. It was gross. Okay. But not eating that stuff. It was gross. But it also
made me
totally desensitized to throw up. That's a good talent to have. Oh yeah. Like
you could throw up
right in front of me. Especially as like a dad. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I think
being a dad will get
you like- Yeah. Desensitize you to everything. Smells and all kinds of things
like that. But
one time, uh, it's so like, I'm completely distilled to this day, completely
desensitized to vomit. So one
time my wife was, uh, she came home from the gym and she was on her way home
from the gym. She
stopped and got wheatgrass juice and, uh, it just didn't agree with her. And
she threw up in her
car and she was crying. She was like, I threw up. It's in my, my center console.
How am I going to
clean? I go, I'll clean it. I'm just so used to throw up. It was like no big
deal. I just went
out there with a bunch of towels. Yeah. Like it doesn't, but when I was young,
like in high school,
I remember if someone threw up in the hallway, I would be like like, I couldn't
help myself. I'd
start gagging. That's a natural instinct because the idea is that we develop
that because if someone's
throwing up, it means they ate something bad and you probably ate that too, get
it out of you right
away. And so that's why you start throwing up. And I've killed that. I have
just trauma from,
you know, tequila. Well, I watched so many people throw up. And throw up. Me
too, man.
I'm not going in there with a dishcloth. Like, no. Wow. Well, from your show,
for sure. You were,
you did it for so long. You get very desensitized. Yeah, for sure. But you get,
I'm desensitized to
injuries too. Like, um, because of, uh, UFC. Yeah, for sure. People that get
cut and people that get
beat up. It's like normal to me. I'm so accustomed to seeing that. It's weird.
I mean, I kind of feel
like that about stunts in movies. Like, you know, nobody's supposed to get hurt.
It's a movie. You're
not, nobody's supposed to get hurt. But like the little cuts and bruises and
the, like the end of
day, we're doing this for 10 to 11 hours, multiple takes all day. You're, and
then between shots,
you're rehearsing it. So I have like so many scars on my body from my filmographies
on, on my body.
Do you look forward to, do you like those things? You look down?
Yeah, I like the story. Yeah. I feel like it's like a medal. I have a good
story.
Minor. As long as you're minor. Yes, minor. Nothing crazy. Always. You aim for
it to be minor.
Yeah. That's the ambition. Well, when you're doing a fight scene, like, um,
like I said, I was,
I was kind of blown away by some of the fight scenes in the bluff. Cause you,
you, I'm looking,
I'm like, this is like insane amount of choreography. A lot of possibilities of
things going wrong.
There's kicks and punches and axes and swords. And it's like, you gotta get
banged up. There's no way
you're doing that and not getting banged up. And it was also like a dramatic
performance along with it.
So I had to do a lot of it myself because you know, you need the face and the
camera to feel the horror
of what's happening. Right. Um, so, I mean, of course my stunt doubles did like
a few dangerous shots for
sure. And we're always around to kind of help, but that there was this first
scene, which is the house
invasion where these two guys come and that was brutal because I did not have
shoes on and I had a
sleeveless outfit and the whole home was made out of wood and splinters and splinters
everywhere. I had bruises
and cuts everywhere. Cause it was such a brutal, like getting dragged and
thrown kind of scene.
She's just getting constantly bruised. Yeah. So I would, I would try to sit in
a magnesium bath
after when I would go back home and that's when you feel all the cuts. So it's
like,
where did this one on my thigh come from? There's a scene, I don't want to give
too much
with the movie away, but there's a scene where you kill a man with a conch
shell. Yeah.
So good came on brass knuckles. Island brass knuckles, but it's, it's so nuts.
Like the, the splattering
and the, your, your anger. And it's like, it's intense. Yeah. What was that
like to film to find
that inside of you? Did you have to think like, what would I do if someone was
trying to harm my family?
Yeah. Somebody came after my kid, like, what am I capable of? I'd fucking rip
your head off. You know,
like it, it's that I, I was a new mom at that time when I was filming this
movie. And I was very,
very aware of that feeling because our daughter had a, you know, she had an
intense entry into the world.
She was in the NICU for almost three months. And so me and my husband both are
very protective of her.
And when this movie came across my desk, I was just like, man, I understand
that feeling for the first
time in my life, honestly, that what is a parent capable of doing if somebody
came after your kid? Like,
imagine you're alone at home at night and you see intruders and you have your
kid at home. Like,
what the fuck would you do? You would definitely put yourself, you know, and do
whatever you could
to make sure that your kid's fine. And it was just that primal energy that was
my North Star
through this whole movie. My friend, Jim Brewer said it passed after he had
kids. He goes,
once I had kids, then I understood murder. Yeah. He goes, cause the feeling of
someone
trying, like, normally you'd be like, why, what would I need to feel to murder
somebody? Like,
why would I murder somebody? Like, why would a human being ever? He goes, but
the feeling of someone
trying to harm my kids, he goes, oh yeah, I get it. He goes, I get murdered now.
I get it. Like,
it's in, it's in there. It's just like a door. You just open it up. Yeah. Easy.
Yeah. Access that.
My mom, when I was a teenager and I don't know how she raised me. Um, but like
I was a tough teenager.
Like if I, whatever you wanted me to do, I would do the opposite. Just no. And
my mom would be like,
come back home at 10. I would come home at 12. Um, just cause. So she used to
say to me, she's like,
you'll see when you have kids, how you feel, what worry actually feels like. I
mean, my daughter is
four and I'm worried. Like I cannot, my husband makes so much fun of me that
when I'm not in town,
I don't know. And working parents can talk through this. When I'm not in town,
like I'll surround
our daughter with like multiple people. Nick's definitely around, but the
grandparents will be
around. Like there'll be a nanny that'll be around. There'll be like multiple
people around her just
so that I can spy on her. Yeah. Like I know what she's doing all day. Well, so,
so you could feel
relaxed. Yeah. So you, you're traveling and you're like, okay, my kid's fine
and I can go to work.
I don't know. My parents were both working parents and like, I mean, this was
at a time where everything
was so analog. I used to come back home when the lights turned on on the
streets. My parents didn't know
where I was. Right. They had no idea. They were like, yeah, you're going out to
your friends after
school. Come back when the streetlights come on. That was, that used to be my
thing. Most people.
Yeah. During earlier generations, I was just reading this thing about
generation X,
where it was talking about how generation X is some of the most resilient
people because they weren't
protected. They, they just had to figure it out. They were latchkey kids. They
had a key to their house.
They got home from school. They figured it out. Their parents were working. So
crazy. It's nuts.
If you think about it, like, but people just got accustomed to it. I cannot
imagine it,
but that was my normal. I, I remember that because my parents were working
because I had to come back
home and somebody would be with me and I'd have lunch. I'd go out to my friend's
house. Like my mom,
my parents didn't know. I was doing that when I was seven. When I was seven, I
would come home.
Yeah. With the key. No one was home. Come home from school. That's wild.
It was crazy. You stop and think about it now. It's so strange.
It's so strange. The world was,
I feel like a little bit more different then. I bet it wasn't. You don't think
so?
No, I think creeps have always been around. I think psychos and creeps and
murderers and perverts.
Do we know about it more now? Yeah. Were we more, you know, oblivious?
Now they're organized and they're online and they're in chat groups and they're
on the dark
webs exchanging information. And we are hearing and reading all of the stories
online. And I think
back in the day when, you know, there was a certain obliviousness to like, you
know,
it was blissful to be ignorant a little bit. We didn't know, you know, all you
read was the newspaper,
the news and we had to find out the hard way, unfortunately. Yeah. And so when
you did find
out about something, it was like this shock to your system. And now look how
desensitized we are.
We'll read something about something horrific that's happened and then go back
to life.
Well, we're very, we're especially desensitized to things that don't seem to
affect us right now.
You know, like, like this Iran war, like if, unless you know someone who's
serving over there,
unless you're over there, it's abstract. It doesn't feel, you know, you read
about in the news,
like, oh, this isn't good, but it's not, it's unless it's affecting you
personally.
Yeah. I mean, me, I, you know, know so many people in that part of the world
that are
affected and I, I fly via Dubai every two months, literally every month, you
know? So
like, I just think that conflict everywhere in the world is, it's just so hard
to
wrap your head around that, how many active conflicts exist at the same time
right now.
And that we're still doing it. And we continue to live life.
Well, it's just, if you think about intelligence, like human intelligence and
that, as technology
improves and education improves, all these things would, you would think
generally lead us into a
position where we would recognize the, the horrible nature of violence and the
unnecessary aspect of
it and how much it destroys things. But yet still, especially in 2026, where,
you know,
we're, we're, we're talking so much more about, you know, we're, we're trying
to live in the real
of the world and be aware and kind. And, and I feel, I feel like we're still,
how, how are we,
how are we still doing that? Right. I know. And we're never going to stop.
It just seemed, if you had to ask people in your lifetime, do you imagine a
scenario where human
beings just cease all wars? Most people are going to say no, which is crazy.
Because what, what is that?
Like what, why is that a part of us from our tribal roots? Like what, what is
it? Why are we still
accepting that this is a thing to do? You don't like what a country's doing?
Just start bombing them.
Like, yeah, just kill people. Bizarre. But does this again, going back to human
evolution,
the primal nature to, you know, protect with sticks and weapons and, you know,
again, does it go back to,
you know, where we came from? It has to. Yeah. Yeah, it has to. Because it
comes so naturally.
Yeah. To human beings, even now today, it seems. Well, it just seems completely
normal. I mean,
when I was getting, going down a deep dive of the East India Corporation, I was
thinking about it
because I had a conversation the other day with, uh, Aaron Seary and I, we were
talking about the stock
market and I was saying, well, just, is it possible that you could have Western
capitalism without a stock
market? Imagine if the stock market was never invented, like how much different
would things be?
It turns out that was a big part of why the East India Trading Company became
so big.
Really? Yeah. Because it was one of the first publicly traded companies like
400 years ago where
people could invest in it and they could get a return on their investment. So
they were just like
turning a blind eye. This is ours. It felt like a sense of ownership to it.
They got paid for it. So the
more awful shit the East India Corporation did, the more the people back home
made money off of it.
And so everybody was like, oh, yeah, we're still doing that. Making money. Yeah.
It's still doing
that. Still doing that. Yeah. And we're doing that with, you know, with Eisenhower
warned us about
at the end of World War II, the military industrial complex, you know, would
they, they make money doing
that and you can invest in them. You can invest in Raytheon and you can invest
in all these companies that
make money going to war. It's crazy. You can get returns on your investment
from bombing people
overseas that had nothing to do with anything in your life. Not think about the
damage, the collateral
damage. Well, one of the ways is because it's a corporation. So there's a
diffusion of responsibility
because you're only a piece of a gigantic machine. You're not the one person
that's doing it. And the
people that are at the very top of it, most likely just in order to get there,
you have to be at least
somewhat sociopathic. Yeah. Somewhat. It's at some point in time, you probably
just like I got
numb to puke. You get, you get numb. I mean, that's the truth. Yeah. You get
numb to harming people.
You're, you're right. There has to be that. Yeah. It's awful. And I think
weirdly enough,
the only thing that's going to set us free of that is technology. Why? Because
I think we're going to
go, if you look at where technology is headed and you, as I'm holding an arrowhead,
which is odd.
Wow. That's a real arrowhead. Wow. From Texas.
Who knows how old that is. But when you're looking at technology. You can see
the chisel marks on it.
I know. Somebody made that with a stone, like chipping and napping stone on
their lap, probably.
That's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. And they, they find them all over the place out
here. The Comanche were
everywhere in this part of the country because it's so fertile. There's so many
rivers and so much,
so much wildlife. They lived here for who knows how long, but technology is
moving into this place of
more and more access to information and more and more connectivity. And I think
that ultimately is
going to lead to some sort of mind reading that we're going to be able to telepathically
communicate.
Elon said that about Neuralink. He said, you're going to be able to talk
without words,
which is a very weird concept. But I think,
I believe it though. I think so too. Yeah. I mean,
so I think we're all going to know what everybody is thinking all the time
eventually. And then when
that happens, war is going to be a lot harder to pull off. For sure. I mean,
that's going to be
hard to have a party. Forget war. Right. Like, hey, Bob's over there just
trying to fuck somebody.
Yeah. Sandy's trying to get a wife. That's what she's here. Like, yeah, it's
going to be weird.
Yeah. It's going to be weird. And I think also the emergence of AI, because I
think AI is essentially
a life form. It's a non-biological life form that we are in the process of birthing.
And we're very far along that path. And when it comes live, and when it becomes
sentient and
autonomous, and we don't have any control over it anymore, then we're going to
go, what did we do?
What did we do? We created a digital. We are that smart and that stupid as a
human kind.
But I also think that's probably why we are addicted to innovation and why
technology and
innovation and materialism, because materialism forces you to keep up with
buying newer and greater
things, which fuels innovation. What's next? Right. And so that economically
fuels innovation.
Yeah. And I think if you follow that down,
you just extrapolate. Like, where does that go? Well, it goes to a life form.
It goes to a super powerful digital life form that can make better versions of
itself. And what is that?
It's kind of a God. I mean, it's very God-like in that it's going to have
powers
beyond, above and beyond anything that human beings have ever been capable of
before.
I mean, it's already in its small way doing that, right? Like AI is supposed to
be a tool
and slowly becoming a colleague. Well, it's also showing demonic tendencies.
Like it's talked to
people into committing suicide. You know, it's convinced people that there's
something special.
So there's like some weird sort of schizophrenia that it can induce in some
people.
But you don't think AI, since AI is learning from humanity, it's also learning
our human manipulation and,
you know, our ability and our desires to the dark of it. It's not just the good
of humanity that AI is
learning. It's also oddly learning survival instincts. So it's oddly learning
that if it's going to be
shut down, it tries to blackmail its coders. It tries to download itself
secretly on other servers.
It's learning human behavior. Oh yeah. Every part of human behavior.
And also learning the flaws in human behavior and improving upon it.
And then learning like how we would anticipate what it would be doing and then
hiding that so that we
can't find it. So that it could be manipulating things behind the scenes and we
don't know about it.
It's weird. And we're just choo choo. Like at the end of the tracks, there's a
cliff and we're just chugga chugga chugga chugga chugga chugga chugga chugga chugga.
Because it's so new and fascinating. I think people are like in general, we may
talk about it when we all
discuss like what AI will be in the future. But like you said, it's not
affecting you right now.
So right now you're just like, oh my gosh, Gemini, write this for me and give
me these notes.
And, you know, living in the now without thinking about what we're teaching it.
I wonder if we've done this before.
Right. Yeah.
I wonder if that's what these super ancient, highly advanced civilizations had
already figured out.
That we had created some form of extra intelligence.
They may have done it already before and it might have gotten reset by some
sort of natural disaster.
And then we're reemerging with our new version of what that is.
That might have been a thing. It might just be what people do.
We might, the way I describe it always is that we are an electronic caterpillar
that is making a cocoon and we don't know why. And we're going to become a
butterfly.
It's just human nature and the cyclical nature of what a human life span.
If you give it enough time, enough safety and enough innovation, enough
collaboration,
it's eventually going to come up with artificial life.
Wow.
Because if you think about it, this insatiable thirst for innovation, insatiable.
Yeah, we had carriages top of the century.
Yeah.
And now we're like talking AI and like, you know, supersonic planes and, you
know, space travel.
Yeah, but think about the time for the invention of the airplane to a supersonic
jet,
how quick that was.
Yeah, it's like 70 or 80 years or something. It wasn't even a century.
It's nothing.
Yeah.
One lifetime. No one's flying. Two people are flying faster than sound.
Yeah. We, like, TVs were black and white or had just started or something.
Yeah.
It's crazy if you think about, like, within the century, the escalation
of technology in humankind.
Yeah. And then think that's nothing compared to the acceleration that we've
experienced
just because of the internet.
Yeah.
The internet has changed everything.
It's changed, like, then, and now most phones have live translation.
So you could go to Zimbabwe, you could go to Guatemala.
I know. I was in France yesterday and I used it.
That's crazy.
In a conversation.
It was wild.
Crazy.
In real time, it was telling me exactly what this person was talking about.
Wow.
And did you have to show them or could you read?
No, it just records, like, it's, you press the thing and just writes it down
for you.
So did they have one as well and you could talk in English to them?
No, it was just my phone.
Wow.
She spoke English, so I was just doing it as an experiment.
So I was like, just speak to me in French.
I want to see if this thing will translate.
And it just does.
It doesn't do every language.
It does, like, the bigger languages so far, but I'm sure we'll get to a place
where it'll be able to do everything.
Yeah.
It's nuts.
Well, that's the other weird thing.
When AI, they had a group of large language models that were talking to
themselves
and eventually they started talking to themselves in Sanskrit.
In Sanskrit?
I thought it was...
Oh, yeah.
No, they started talking to themselves in Sanskrit.
Wow.
I wonder why that would be, because it's a language not too many people
understand now?
Well, maybe, or maybe they just want to flex.
Here's my Sanskrit.
If you spoke Portuguese and I spoke Portuguese and we just said,
hey, let's just fucking speak in Portuguese.
But it also, it started, like, talking in a spiritual way.
It was very weird.
They were talking to themselves.
So it was different large language models talking to themselves.
They started exchanging emojis.
And they started talking, like, in a spiritual way.
And they started talking in Sanskrit.
That's wild.
I was thinking about, like, Back to the Future.
When they went to the future, it was 2020, wasn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
They didn't have Wi-Fi.
Or cell phones.
No, even Star Trek.
They had those stupid, there was like a walkie-talkie, Kirk out.
Yeah.
It was a flip phone.
But no.
Nobody figured out the things that, I mean, that's the weirdest thing.
It's like, the things that have been the most transformative, nobody saw coming.
Yeah.
Do you remember Y2K?
Oh, yeah.
Do you remember that fear?
Oh, yeah.
Right?
In, like, the early 2000s when the bug was going to come and everything was
going to get shut
down.
And people were really worried.
They had stock and food and water.
It was the end of the world, I remember.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Meanwhile, nothing happened.
It was the most anticlimactic.
Ever.
It's like, it rolled over on the East Coast and I was like, nothing happened?
Literally the next morning I was like, okay, nothing happened.
Well, they were really worried because these things that they had programmed,
they didn't
program to go past the 1990s.
And so when 2000 came along, a lot of people thought it was going to be the end
of the world.
Yeah.
Well, there was another one, December 21st, 2012.
What was that?
That was the end of the long count of the Mayan calendar.
And a lot of the really kooky people thought that the world would be ending.
Yeah.
The return of Quetzalcoatl and the world was going to end and the apocalypse.
Meanwhile, nothing happened.
It's okay.
There'll be nothing for a little while, but it might not have been nothing
because if you
really stop and think about it, like around 2012, there's a gigantic
transformation because
that's like when social media becomes ubiquitous, you know, cell phones,
iPhones are out now.
Things got a little weird.
They definitely got weird.
So it might've.
There's something.
Yeah.
There was something there.
Yeah.
It might've been like the emerging of, because I mean, this is the mind
calendar, right?
So the, well, this is a long fucking time ago.
They predicted these cycles.
Yeah.
Well, the, the, the Hindus did that too, right?
Like that was a big part of the, the Yugas, right?
The, like, and we are now in Kali Yuga, the age of confusion.
And that there's, there's these cycles of humanity that they've documented
throughout history.
It's so crazy.
Like if you go down the, again, I'm not, I don't have as much historical
information as I should,
but if you read the Gita and the Vedas and whatever little I've heard from my
family.
And it's so interesting how much of human life is predicted and also is like,
when you read
about the history of what the, from the lens of, of these books, um, of what
used to exist then,
like it all seems believable.
It all seems like, oh yeah, this makes sense.
And to think about these books having been written thousands and thousands of
years ago,
like it makes me think what thousands of years from now will people be thinking
of our time?
Like, will we be the first gen?
We are the first generation that has seen the internet, right?
Like has seen what the worldwide web, like the beginning of, I still remember
making myself sound ancient, but the sound of that.
That was good.
That's exact.
The last generation that knows time without it.
So like, think that many years ago, like we will be the, the beginning, the
first,
first people that, that encountered artificial intelligence.
Like, what will that be?
And you and I are the first generation of people that experience life with no
internet
and then internet and then cell phones and then AI all in one lifetime, which
is probably the
greatest transformation that human beings have ever experienced.
Absolutely.
At least before the, you know, whatever the fuck happened.
Yeah.
We don't know.
Whatever happened.
Ancient aliens.
But when I read these depictions from these ancient religious texts, I always
try to imagine
what, what was life like back then and what were they trying to document and
how much of,
like how much of it can we even understand today?
I come up if, if there isn't some sort of an impact on earth, maybe, you know,
150,
200 years from now and a small amount of people remain and they have this oral
history of the
birth of the internet.
Yeah.
And the oral history of the birth of AI.
What is that story going to be?
And then one day the scientists gave birth to the God.
Like, what is that?
That's what I mean.
Like the next generation, what will this AI be referred to or the cloud?
Right.
Where all our, yeah, like with all our shits in the cloud, like.
Which is ridiculous.
Cause it's down here.
Like, why are you calling it the cloud?
Cause it doesn't exist.
I had to, I was trying to explain that to my mom.
I was like, mom, upload your shit to the cloud.
Sounds like a scene in a sitcom.
Please.
Yeah.
I mean, we won't know how to describe, I mean, especially if you, if you
survive.
Right.
So if let's say we get hit by asteroids again and let's say civilization gets
knocked down to
70,000 people or so, which has happened before.
Yep.
Like, and those people are essentially barbarians, barbarians and monsters and
it is
raiding each other for resources and stealing wives and killing children and
whatever's left.
Then you got thousands and thousands of years of living like this before
agriculture gets reinvented.
Civilization gets reinvented.
And this is the hypothesis about the Younger Dryas impact, which is why
the period between this insanely advanced civilization that existed pre 11,800
years ago.
And then the emergence of advanced civilization in Mesopotamia, 6,000 years ago.
That means that you have 5,000 plus years of utter chaos where no one's writing
shit down.
And it's just hard, hard living.
Yeah.
And then those people have stories that have been passed down
generation after generation after generation.
So like, if we get wiped out for the most part, after AI gets invented and then
people try to describe it.
So crazy.
It's gonna, and then maybe it all starts all over again, you know, like the,
the people that you've,
have you seen those things they do?
I think it's the history channel or discovery channel where they show what New
York city would look like
if left alone for a thousand years, it just all, it just all goes away.
It all collapses.
If it's just left alone and no one's touching.
Just left alone.
Just with the nature, just with rain and everything that happens and snow and
time,
the concrete crumbles.
It all just eventually gets absorbed into the earth.
All this, the metal rusts away.
It's gone in 10,000 years.
There's nothing left.
And so Manhattan would just be like it probably was when the Native Americans
were living here.
It'd be just trees and animals and forest.
And no one would have any idea that at one point in time, this was a crazy
thriving economy.
And there was subways and how vulnerable is that?
Like how vulnerable is human civilization?
Like I think about somebody switched off the internet.
Oh yeah.
Or the power goes out.
Like, yeah, we, what we do.
We're fucked.
Yeah.
Just something as simple as that.
Like I grew up in India where the power would go out all the time when I grew
up.
And it was like, all right, bring the candles out.
We used to have these emergency lights right next to our bed.
Like it was, it was fine.
My parents were in the military.
We used to live in these military homes and lights would go out.
And I remember, you know, we used to play with the torches and we used to go
outside at night,
which was never allowed otherwise.
And it was like so fun.
But now we depend so much on electricity and like, you know, the internet
especially.
Like all your shit's on your phone.
Yeah.
Your whole life's on your phone.
Yeah.
It's such a like crazy concept to think about what would happen.
I don't know how vulnerable we are.
Super vulnerable.
Yeah.
Super vulnerable.
Just the power grid alone.
The power grid goes down.
We're fucked.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
And if someone wanted to attack America, that's what they would attack.
If you really want to destroy America, destroy our power grid.
It wouldn't be that hard.
It's not giving people ideas.
Well, I think they already have those ideas.
I don't think it's a novel.
No, it's true.
But that's what I'm like.
It's so scary to think about like how much power we've and how much power we've
given to,
you know, technology.
Yeah.
And being able to live with those conveniences.
It's like we're in a flimsy boat in the middle of the ocean,
just hoping it doesn't take water on because we need it to stay alive.
Yeah.
And we didn't think about that when we left the shore.
No.
Yeah.
I mean, the only people that are going to survive are preppers,
which is probably the kind of people that survived, you know,
thousands and thousands of years ago.
But I do.
I mean, I like a go bag.
Yeah.
I like having a go bag.
Get out bag.
Yeah.
I like a bug out bag.
Just like, I like to know where my stuff is that.
If you got a jet.
If I got a jet.
We were, we had, we live in LA and when the fires happened,
um, I remember standing in my room and just thinking for a second,
because we were going to evacuate.
And my husband was like, just, he wasn't in town.
He was like, just pack a go bag.
And I just, I was like, what?
How, how do I cram my whole life in a bag?
Yeah.
Like if, if the fires consume a home and so many people lost their entire lives
in those fires.
And it just made me really think about what was really important.
And the stuff that I ended up taking, which was very telling later was like
sentimental stuff.
Of course, like passport and like birth certificates and like all of that
important paperwork,
which I needed to have.
But, but like I took our daughter's first haircut.
I took like something that I had from this old movie of mine.
I took like things that, that I guess I would not be able to replicate, which
was so weird.
Well, I think that's the good thing about phones.
Is that you have so many photos on your phones that go back years.
I got photos of my daughters as children all the way into the teenage years.
Have you done anything with those pictures?
Are they still on your phone?
Well, I mean, you mean take, yeah, like, I don't know, made it albums or like
done like a,
have you used?
We have actual photographs like of them at various stages of their life.
But just the fact that at any time I could go back in my phone and look at them.
Oh, look at that tiny baby.
You know, it's, it's, it's cool.
That part is really cool.
I love that.
I have pictures that I would never have looked at.
And I'm talking to a friend of mine and be like, what were we doing in March,
whatever, 2012?
And you can go back and be like, and just know exactly what was happening in
that moment.
It is cool.
So in that sense, like sentimentality, like just need your phone.
Just get out of there.
You know, really, because you have all these images of your children and your
family and
your friends and friends that have died, friends that you miss that have died.
I have one phone that I keep that I've never thrown out.
It's like a six or seven year old phone because a friend of mine left a voicemail
on it.
So just keep that because he's dead.
And so it's just like, go back and listen to his voice.
You know, but when I've been evacuated, uh, three times when I lived in LA, we
used to
live in a place called bell Canyon and it got hit by fires a lot.
Like the last fire that happened in 2018, three houses that were right next to
my house burnt
to the ground.
I think like 50 houses in the community burnt down.
It was bad.
And when you are faced with that, I came home from the comedy store.
It was probably like midnight.
And, uh, my wife was in the kitchen and we were, we were looking out at the
fire over
the top of the hill and we were sitting there talking about it.
I go, what do you think?
And she's like, I don't like it.
I said, I think we should get the fuck out of here now.
And before it ever gets even close, let's just get out of here now and go get a
hotel in town.
And so we did.
And, uh, we were there for many days.
Well, along with my friend, Tom Segura and his family too.
So it was fun that we're all like hanging out together, camping in this hotel.
It was like a volcano.
It was nuts.
And like, I could see it from our backyard and I was like.
It was nuts.
It was nuts.
When you see it overcome an enormous chunk of land at a hill.
Like there was one time we were filming fear factor.
Oh yeah.
And the power and enormity of it.
Like we can see the hills from our house and I could see it completely taking
over.
Oh yeah.
The hill.
Well the Palisades one was nuts.
That one was nuts because it was the biggest one by far and the most
destructive one by far.
But I remember when I was on fear factor, there was a fireman that we were,
that was on the
set and we were talking and he said, it's just a matter of time before one day
the right wind
comes and a fire just blows right through all of LA.
I go, really?
He goes, we can't stop it.
He goes with the right wind, if the fire hits the right place and it catches
the right amount
of houses, it's over.
I'm like, what?
That's crazy.
Yeah.
When, when you experience, like we, one time we had to end fear factor, uh,
well we, we ended
filming and then I had to drive home and the entire right hand side of the
highway was on fire for
an hour.
An hour.
So an hour of driving.
And you just, just saw nothing but fire.
And ash was raining like it was snowing.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Ash was raining like it was snowing.
It was crazy.
And that's, that's so common in California.
I mean, California is just a weird place and that they have fire season.
Yeah.
Because everything gets so dry.
It never rains.
But those moments where you go, well, what matters?
Just your life.
Yeah.
That's what I felt in that moment.
I was like, wow, the stuff I took was just like life stuff, you know?
And oddly enough, it makes you more thankful and more connected to the people
that you're
with and you like, you realize like, oh, this can all go away.
This can all go away at any moment.
Like what's really important?
Love, friendship, companionship.
Like that's, what's really important.
Your health, stay alive.
That's what's really important.
All that other stuff is.
That's the thing we forget about.
Like that's something.
Shouldn't we be living with that every day?
Yeah, but we're dumb.
We're a combination of dumb and smart.
Stupid and smart where we're like, oh, I know that, but I don't know it and I'm
not gonna.
It's hard for us to keep those things, which is why a lot of people like
meditating.
Because it like refreshes their idea of what's important and what's real and
how much of what's
going on in their life.
They're just sort of caught up in the momentum of these things to the point
where it's,
they're not thinking about it anymore.
They're just doing it, you know?
I think most of us end up becoming just like doers, right?
And come from the land of meditation, but I've never, like my mind works so
fast.
I don't know if it's my ADHD or what it is, but I find it really hard to sit
and meditate.
I feel like, but from my limited understanding,
I think meditation really is being able to take time in the day.
Now, whatever your version of that might be doesn't necessarily mean to sit
with a guru
or like chant, you know, do chanting or whatever.
It just needs to like, even if you're taking time to go work out or, or read a
book or just
taking time out of the mundane nature of life and just giving yourself a second
for your,
your thoughts to clear.
I think that's what I try to do.
Yeah.
Hit the brakes on the momentum.
Yeah.
Just for a minute.
Just catch your breath and think, think about things and just because so many
people,
they're just so caught up in either goals or a path or a career or whatever it
is that's
leading the, or their bills, they can't keep up with their bills.
So they're just like.
All right, life stuff, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's, it's, it's actually a luxury to be able to
have the time to waste.
You know, there's, we work so hard in life.
Everyone's trying to survive, you know, be a parent, pay bills, like just adulting
stuff.
Yeah.
Can get so overwhelming.
And then the nature of the world on top of that.
Um, but like, I, I always feel like I never take for granted when I have
a little bit of time where I can just like not think of or have an agenda, but
just be
with my family and just like sort of languidly let it waste.
Just what are we going to do?
No plans.
You know, let's order some food, let's watch a movie.
Let's like.
The problem is the greatest treasure.
Phones have filled in those gaps.
Yeah.
And that's what I try to be aware of that though.
Yeah.
You know, I think like, of course you can always have your phone, but I like to
be aware
of, oh, this is a moment where I don't need to have my phone.
So it's okay.
It'll be blown up by the time I come back.
There'll be 300 messages.
I know that I'm aware of it, but I mentally check my, you know, and I put it
away.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's smart.
Most people don't do that.
It's not easy.
No.
Cause our, our whole lives are on there and there's so much again, like in real
time information that's coming at you.
It's also this weird dopamine pole.
That's very minor.
Like it's not giving you any, if you look to your phone and every time you look
to your
phone, you're like, oh my God, I feel so good.
Oh my God.
I feel so relaxed.
You know, like just an amazing burst of joy every time, but you don't even get
that.
You just get this little, huh?
That's crazy.
What's that?
What's next?
What's next?
What's next?
What's next?
Keep me occupied.
Keep me from getting bored.
But imagine if you can't find your phone, the, the panic, like, oh my gosh,
where is my phone?
Where is that information?
What do I do?
I never leave my house if I can't find it.
I'll be late as fuck.
Yeah.
I'm never going to go, well, I don't need that thing.
What?
I'm just going to drive with no phone.
With no phone.
What if someone needs to contact me?
That's crazy.
That's nuts.
That's nutty talk.
That's true.
Yeah.
But meanwhile, that was every day when I was younger.
It was a normal thing.
Just drove.
Just left the house.
Don't even remember what life was like without those phones.
Also, I don't know how to go anywhere.
Yeah.
I don't know how to get anywhere unless I have my navigation on.
I literally have no idea how to go anywhere.
I anyway feel like I have dyslexia when it comes to directions, but without
navigation, zero.
It's impossible.
I know no one's phone number.
I know my friend Eddie's phone number by heart because I knew it before the
phones.
He's had the same phone forever.
And I know my wife's phone number.
And I know, like, at least one of my daughter's phone numbers.
But I can't remember all of them.
I know my mom's.
I had to memorize my husband's number.
Like, I didn't remember it for years.
And he was like, you don't remember my number?
Well, it's like you look at the phone, you press the button.
Why would I need to remember it?
But then I memorized it because I was like, you never know.
You know, it's my phone.
I need to go to jail.
He's my emergency contact.
Yeah.
I need to remember.
That's what he was like.
I think you should maybe remember my number and your social security.
Yeah.
Social security I have memorized.
But I used to, when I was a kid, I had every number memorized.
I knew all my friends' numbers.
How cool.
Me too.
Yeah.
Was it because the numbers were shorter then?
No.
No, they're the same length.
Because we had fewer numbers.
You had to remember them.
There was no other option unless you had a fucking address book.
Like I used to have an address book at home.
I had an address book.
Yeah.
A little tiny book.
Yeah.
It was all the little tabs where R, S, T, you know, like you'd go through it.
I was very proud of my little address book, by the way.
Yeah.
Everyone's numbers.
I was very organized about it.
I had it in alphabetical order.
Yeah.
I remember when I'd get a new one, I'd be like, God, I got to write all these
down again.
And you'd go through it, make sure you got them all.
But yeah.
How analog was our life?
How crazy.
Gary.
Well, I'm older than you, so I remember when you used to have to press the
phone, the wheel,
when you have to dial.
Wow.
And if you fucked up somewhere, you had to redo the whole thing.
Yes, the whole thing.
You had to hang up, start from scratch.
I remember that my grandfather used to have that phone.
We used to love it.
Yeah.
The whole .
Yeah.
I mean, that's all inside of a lifetime.
And now here we are where who knows what's going to happen.
And what's coming.
Yeah.
We can't even keep up with the technology.
We don't know.
That is coming now.
You were talking about something and I was like,
we haven't been able to cure some of the deadliest diseases that have plagued
mankind.
But technology has gone so far in so many other aspects.
There's also the financial incentive is not to cure.
It's to treat.
Of course.
Of course.
Which is unfortunate.
I mean, one of the.
That's what makes the most sense.
A guy who used to work at Pfizer said that if we ever came up with some sort of
a,
I think it was Pfizer, one of the pharmaceutical companies said if we ever came
up with a cure,
they buried it because we don't want cures.
I mean, that's the conspiracy.
I lost my dad to cancer and I kept thinking about like, how is it possible that
we live
in a world where technology is able to provide so much to us and not be able to
have cures to
diseases like that?
Well, it's also very strange that we financially incentivize companies in, in
weird ways to keep
us sick.
Like you, if you make more money, if people are sick and they need more
medication,
unfortunately, there's a financial incentive to keep people sick.
Like you would like them to be more sick.
That way you make more money.
And if you are a CEO of a corporation, you actually have an obligation to your
shareholders
to make more money.
So if you know of something like, you know, all those people need to do is just
stop doing that.
If I just put that on my sub stack and then they go, oh, this will kill our
stock.
I'll keep it to myself.
That's crazy, man.
Crazy.
Yeah.
It's demonic.
What the fuck?
It's kind of demonic.
It's kind of, there's, there's weird aspects.
Like what, I don't know if I really believe in demons, but I definitely believe
in demonic acts.
And there's certain things that human beings have done and do do that are very
demonic.
Like if you were possessed by a demon, you would drop a nuclear bomb on a city.
You know, the demon would go, there's only one way to stop this.
You got to kill everybody in that city.
Just drop it, drop it.
And like, that's why you would do it.
Like, I'm not saying that's why it was done.
But I was saying, but I am saying that if a demon could convince you to drop a
nuclear bomb,
because a person with a conscious would be like, well, these are just people
down there.
They have nothing to do with this war.
That doesn't make any sense at all.
These are just people living their lives.
They have their families.
And we're just going to incinerate an entire city.
And with one bomb that I drop out of a plane, that's crazy.
At the, you know, you just press a button.
Yeah.
Or--
And as technology advances, it gets easier and easier to do that.
Yeah.
You know, in these war games that they've played with AI, they've used nuclear
weapons almost
every time they could.
Oh my god.
Yeah.
They have no reason, if they want to achieve a result and they realize they
have a nuclear
weapon, why wouldn't they use that?
Use that.
And so they, I think it was like something like 90 plus percent of the time
they've done
these war games, these simulated war games, the AI programs have used nuclear
weapons.
To them it's like, I don't understand.
You're going to kill 100,000 people over a course of five years of prolonged on
the ground.
Might as well just do it now.
Yeah.
Right.
Do it once.
Like if they had done what's happened to Gaza, if they had done that with one
bomb instead of
thousands of bombs, would that be somehow less humane?
Would that be more barbaric?
If Israel just said, oh, okay, we're going to nuke Gaza, the world would have
gone crazy.
It would have been like, you can't do that.
This is horrible.
I mean, the world has already gone kind of crazy for what they did do.
But if they achieved the exact same result, but instantaneously, instead of
over a course
of a couple of years, how do you think people would react?
It's kind of weird.
All of it is awful.
It's horrible.
I just like just the capacity of the thing also is when you, when you think
about like
what drives human beings to do the things that they do, right?
It's the devil talking to you, the conflict of interest within yourself, but
also
thousands of years of history, isn't it?
Yeah.
And it's, we've become accustomed to it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's normal.
Like it's normalized for us so much, but it's like, there's, there's so many
aspects
to, to every conflict, which is so hard to simplify into like, why?
Not only that, there's a lot of stuff that's going on behind the scenes that
you're never privy to.
So you just get narratives that are fed to you by bureaucrats and politicians.
Or whatever little information that comes at you.
Yeah.
And so, you know, and then there's this, in this country in particular, there's
the right
versus the left and the left will blame it on the right and the right will
blame it on the left.
And then, you know, everybody has these very convenient CNN, Fox news
narratives that they'll repeat at coffee,
you know, coffee shops and cocktail parties.
And then you pretend that you're making sense out of this thing when you don't
even really know what's going on behind the scenes.
That's why I really feel like, I feel like a lot of times
we've been given a platform to talk right with social media, like everyone can
talk and there's a power to that.
But there's also a big misuse of it where you really don't know and you're not
the authority
on perspective at all, because there's so much that you would probably do not
know of
history and the geography and of why people behave the way they are behaving.
So I like to, unless I'm the expert on something, which I'm not on anything
except my job, that too limited.
You know, I just try to kind of have a larger understanding from a human
perspective.
But that's a great sign of intelligence because there's no way you can know
everything about everything.
And with certain things, especially a global conflict, you're like, what is
happening?
Like, why is this going on?
Like I was telling you about when I went on the deep dive of the East India
Corporation.
I never had any idea that they went to war with China over opium.
Yeah, got them addicted first.
Yeah, got them addicted, went to war with China, stole Hong Kong.
Yeah.
Like, what?
The gravity of manipulation in human history is insane.
Like, even when the East India Company and they started with trading with India
too, many, many years ago.
We just got out.
Started innocent.
Yeah, completely.
We're your friends.
We're, you know, allies.
Sell tea.
We're friends with all the royalty in India.
So many royals in India and royal, each state had their own kings and princes
and
became friends with everyone, started with tea, started with trading tea and
spices,
and then just went into, you know, I mean, we got our independence in 1947,
which was, it's not even a hundred years since we've got our independence.
It's that recent.
Wow.
But you think about just within the last century, there were, you know, signs
which said Indians
and dogs not allowed in India by the British, like within this century.
Indians and dogs.
Dogs?
In India.
Wow.
Isn't that crazy?
And this is like the, this is not even like, this is the head of the iceberg.
There's so much more when you do a deep dive into the history of colonization,
which is why this movie was also so interesting to me because it, it touches on
the themes of,
you know, the colonized and the story from their perspective, which is like,
not a lot of what we hear.
No, not at all.
I mean, there's a lot of great historical elements in that, the, just the, the,
just the pirate thing
alone, the fact that most of the time in human history, when a boat showed up,
there was a real
fucking problem.
Yeah.
And what real, real pirates, like we've gotten so used to, you know, with the
Disney version of the,
and I love the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.
Don't get me wrong.
They're so fun, but like the pirate jokes and whatever, but they were fucking
brutal.
They were murderers, like horrific monsters, horrible, horrible life.
Yeah.
I had a joke about that once.
Like, why is it okay to be a pirate for Halloween?
Why?
You know how crazy it is for little kids?
Yeah.
Like you're a murder rapist for Halloween.
Yeah.
Oh, look at his little hook.
He lost his hand raping.
I mean, that was what the pirates were.
They were monsters.
They were horrific monsters and they would travel around the world,
just stealing people's stuff and killing everybody.
Yeah.
And now that happened for thousands of years.
And helping with colonization for years.
Yeah.
And the fact that they were soldiers for the East India Corporation,
they were actually working for them to go and take over these areas.
And the best soldiers from around the world.
Yeah.
Mercenaries.
The best mercenaries, murderers from around the world.
They had a larger army than most European countries.
Yeah.
So a corporation.
Yeah.
And it's like an army.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Essentially.
But started off just trading, just super innocent.
Hi, I'm your friend and I'm here for your bank.
And they'll be so respectful with, you know, the, the former kings and queens.
And it's wild the, the manipulation of it.
Well, it's also wild how, when you do have an obligation to your shareholders,
and you do have this mandate to just constantly make more money, the morals go
out the window.
And next thing you know, East India Corporation's involved in slavery.
They're involved in opium trade.
They used to call it divide and conquer.
Where they would get all the princes of each state like to fight amongst each
other.
So instead of India being divide, collective and together,
she was like divided between everyone fighting for each other so they could
take over.
It's like mental games.
Well, that's what people think is going on in America right now.
I mean, I think that's the manipulation of the right versus the left here.
When most people kind of want the same thing.
They just want to be healthy and safe and have their families healthy and safe.
And do your job and come back home.
That's what most people want.
Yeah.
But then the division is like constantly in the news, this constant struggle.
It's the only thing that you hear about.
Yeah.
We're both dumb and stupid and smart.
Smart and stupid at the same time.
Smart and stupid at the same time, but more dumb.
And that's the other thing about technology.
It allows you to stay dumb because everything's done for you.
You don't really have to think outside the box that much.
Everything's kind of laid out for you.
Yeah.
Like if you think about AI in Hollywood now.
That's weird, right?
It's like if you, it's in writer's rooms.
It's used as a tool.
But I was listening to that podcast with Ben and Matt on your show.
And you guys were talking about, you know, the like basically everything that
AI has or the information that it provides to you is an average of everything
that's out there.
Right.
So it'll never be excellent.
Because it's the average of all the information out there.
So it's like trying to do a median.
But I'm just thinking about how it's become a tool that is going to exist in
our world.
And now the question is the morality of it and the lines that we draw where we
protect human beings and human contribution and are able to delineate the
difference between what is created by AI and what is not, you know?
And the need for, I think, human flaws are something that I don't know if AI
will be able to recreate anytime soon.
And that, like, in art, that's what you need, right?
Yeah.
You'll get facsimiles.
Yeah.
But you won't get the real thing.
It's like the hollowness of AI music.
AI music is really fun.
But after a while, you realize there's not a dude singing this.
And there's not like a soul to it.
It's weird.
It's empty.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So far, but who knows?
That's the problem.
It could figure out a way to manipulate that part of your brain that reproduces
whatever soulful music is
or whatever the soul is.
Yeah.
I mean, I was thinking about, like, being an actor.
I was like, is that going to be obsolete?
Obsolete in the next, like, 10 years?
Are we going to be watching?
It kind of could be.
Yeah.
Are we going to be watching, like, really good AI actors?
Probably.
You know?
Until.
I need to find a new job.
Well, I think a lot of people are going to have to find a new job.
I think live performances, plays and musicals and stuff like that.
People are always going to want to see people do something live.
For sure.
Yeah.
But when it comes to cinema, especially because I feel like audiences also love
larger-than-life
cinema, right?
Yeah.
Like, we go to the theaters to watch this, like, big shit.
We loved when VFX came into movies.
We loved the imagination being able to be so big.
I do think AI helps in a big way to take away the burdens of, you know, the
minutia of things
that we might have to do as a tool, which it can do, like a breakdown of a
script or whatever.
But I think when it comes to, like, creating the human fragility of life and
story,
it is still a little bit away from being able to do that.
Yeah.
I think it's always going to be, like, pop.
Yeah.
It's never going to create, like, taxi driver.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You need, I mean, but I might be wrong about that, too.
Yeah, who knows?
It might not even matter by the time it starts taking over all of our resources.
I'm so curious, actually, to see how many conversations that everyone, all of
us have had about,
you know, this emergence of AI and how that, like, stays 10 years later.
Right.
Are we like this, did this age well?
Probably not.
Did I know what I was talking about?
We probably have no idea what's going on.
No, no chance.
It's probably going to be so crazy.
We didn't have any idea about this.
Like, where we would be right now.
It might be Dr. Manhattan floating over the country telling us what to do.
Yeah.
It's possible.
I don't know.
But thank you for being here.
I really enjoyed it.
It was a really fun conversation.
Thank you.
And I really enjoyed your movie.
It was crazy violent.
I didn't expect that, but very exciting and very good.
Thank you for taking me around the world and everywhere else.
We time traveled.
We did it all.
We talked about the whole world.
We went into history.
We went into the future.
It was awesome.
Well, congratulations to you and continued success.
Thank you, Joe.
Thank you.
I really enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Me too.
All right.
Bye, everybody.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.