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Robert W. Malone, MD, MS, is a virologist and immunologist and an original inventor of mRNA delivery and vaccination as a technology, DNA vaccination, and multiple non-viral DNA and RNA/mRNA platform delivery technologies. He serves on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices and is the author of multiple books, the most recent of which is “PsyWar: Enforcing the New World Order,” co-written with his wife, Dr. Jill Glasspool Malone. The Drs. Malone are the founders of the Malone Institute, which focuses on issues related to government, the biological sciences, and medicine. www.skyhorsepublishing.com/9781510782952/psywar/ www.malone.news www.malonebroadcasting.com www.maloneinstitute.org www.rwmalonemd.com
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We were trying to figure out how long it's been since it's been somewhere in
the neighborhood
close to five years yeah a lot of water into the bridge your appearance on this
show boy
did that create a lot of problems yeah um yeah i i didn't expect you ever
having me on again i thought
maybe spotify was just gonna say hell no no you were right like this is a
victory dance like it
turned out that all your warnings and all the things that you were saying about
the problems
turned out to be true well thanks and i know you've said that on a few shows
every time you do
somebody sends me a clip and sees hey rogan said you did the right thing what
was it like
for you first of all you know they were trying to label you a quack and a kook
and someone didn't know
what they're talking about it didn't i don't think it worked with everybody i
mean it worked with people
that weren't paying attention but anybody that really paid attention to your
background said no
this guy's very credible i mean don't you have like nine patents on mrna
vaccine technology yeah on the
mrna yeah and total of about 15 i think yeah and you also took the vaccine and
had a horrible adverse
event a series of them yeah yeah that that at the time it was so early that was
when the national
guard was still doing it and that was moderna and um the i was embarrassed uh
by to have these
experiences um and i was embarrassed when i got covid in early 2020 um you know
looking back uh there was
so much so much fear um so much uh uh anger and anxiety and everything wrapped
around all of this
and in retrospect it was you know it was promoted but it was also very organic
uh you know it was it
was you know looking back being honest about it it was a frightening time what
was happening
and um and yeah i i you know i had those experiences uh my uh doc who was a
cardiologist was like why were
you so stupid to take this uh your doctor said that yeah in 2021 yeah um she
was 2020 or 20 it was
2021 2021 yeah um i was going to a kind of a cardiologist that had left um
traditional medical
practice at uh uva and the associated um hospitals and i was going to her for
uh hormone replacement
therapy and uh bioidentical hormone replacement therapy and um she was
monitoring a lot of things and
and um yeah that was her response why did you do this of course i've had that
question a thousand
times since you know why were you so stupid you were the one that should have
known um and so i have to
answer that still uh it's kind of gets a little tiresome what was your
perspective on the vaccine
before you took it um to be honest i was a little i was amazed i was amazed
that the that the claims
that the problems that i encountered when i had been working on it had been
solved i didn't see how that
could be the case but i knew that a huge amount of money had been thrown at it
so it was possible
what were the problems uh in my hands it was inflammation primarily it was also
you know the
it was absolutely not localizable uh it was in in the monkey models that we
tested it was incredibly
inflammatory it didn't give long um levels long prolonged levels of expression
it was hard to make it's kind of
back then it was uh almost a little bit of witchcraft you'd drop i mean for me
as a graduate student when
i was doing that it was incredibly scary because it was a couple thousand
dollars worth of reagents in a
little tiny tube and you know back in the late 80s that was real money and uh
and it didn't always work
the reaction so you know it was it was a little bit of a wing and a prayer uh
but then um as i started
working with with animal models and with the different formulations i could
come up with a
variety of different compounds and formulations that work pretty well in cell
culture but not so well in
animals and uh i spent a lot of time trying to do that optimize that and what i
ended up with is just
seeing that it it really caused you know i'm sorry to use medical jargon i'm
that's kind of where i'm
from so that's the language no it's probably better if you know it it caused a
lot of inflammation uh
you know white cell infiltrates really aggressive white cell infiltrates in my
hands in both mice and
monkeys and i'd abandoned it as as something that just uh you know was was
useful in in research in
particularly in cell culture but i just didn't see it uh maturing as a as an
efficient delivery strategy
with uh low risk you know acceptable risk in animals and that also became the
experience in uh at this
company that i had first joined where a lot of the original patents were filed
vikal
uh they they abandoned the rna because they couldn't make it uh and uh they
turned largely to this strange
discovery that we had that was a negative control that the rna alone or dna
alone was actually more
effective in animal models mice for instance than it was uh to use the
positively charged fats this now
people call them lipid nanoplexes lots of fancy words around it it was just
positively charged fats of
various types that were mixed that bind the dna or the rna and and kind of
spontaneously assemble
and a lot of work went into trying to improve that we did what we could in the
90s when i was at davis
to try to advance that technology and develop new lipids and we had a number of
them get patented and
they were marketed by promega and others but uh could never solve the delivery
in vivo but this group up
in university of british columbia that had been banging away at this kind of
related liposome tech for
years and years even before you know i had known anything about it uh were the
ones that's kind of
came up with the magic sauce that uh is used essentially by both the modern and
pfizer products
and that's the stuff that we've all been um exposed to those that have taken it
so when you were first experimenting you said the it couldn't be localized so
meaning that in the
injection site it was supposed to be there and then your body was supposed to
produce antibodies
because of the injection yeah and it goes all over but it went out all over the
body yeah it does but
the assertion what they were telling you when you got the shot initially was
that it was not going
to leave the injection site yeah and i and i called um my colleagues uh um at
university of british
columbia that i had known back in the day uh as i was um grappling with whether
or not to take the
product because i had to travel and as you recall back then forget
international travel if you weren't
jabbed even national travel yeah you couldn't get on an airplane but in canada
it was even worse you
couldn't get on a train um yeah so so i called uh peter and and had a chat with
him and he said that
they had solved the problems of the distribution that now when you injected it
it would stay local it
would go to the draining lymph nodes uh it was much more effective and that
they didn't have those
safety issues anymore so that was one of the reasons why i decided to go ahead
did you ask how
they solved that problem yeah yeah i i asked in detail because i knew some of
the nature of the
um formulations again i don't want to get too technical but uh what what was
claimed was that
the incorporation of polyethylene glycol uh so this is you know you would know
that as antifreeze
uh but it's in the liposome world it's long been known as a way to create what
are known as
stealth liposomes that circulate in your body for a long period of time and
make it so that these
particles don't get inactivated by extracellular proteins and the liver and
stuff like that and so
uh he was using uh the the gentleman in particular is named peter cullis by the
way he's the one that
should have got the nobel prize for these products as far as i'm concerned uh
and um got slighted in the
pick but peter cullis said that he had uh they had experimented with a lot of
different structures
of the fat particles chemical structures so they came up with some that had
these properties of
staying localized and then built the formulations in ways that were similar to
what i'd done uh with
cholesterol and other things but then also added these uh shorter polyethylene
glycol molecules
attached with a really short organic you call it fat or or gasoline like
molecule uh that that put the
peg into the liposome particle and but it in a way that once it got into the
body it would fall off
and so this is you know some people have the sensation as i did with my second
jab of you know you get it
and then suddenly you feel tingling in the end of your fingers or things like
that that may be the peg
but it was those advances in
the components because this these are self-assembling particles
uh that were used that um peter uh and his group
peter recall uh no peter cullis uh p-i-e-t-e-r
uh from ubc and his group um built these products with uh in this technology
and that was
they they had it available uh um their choice because they created companies
for this i mean a ton
of money must have been made uh because they licensed it non-exclusively to bioentech
and moderna
uh and uh that that's still kind of the core tech that makes this particular
category of products work
and so this was enough to convince you that they had solved that problem
yeah i took his word at it i mean he's he's an extremely uh experienced
knowledgeable uh liposome
formulation expert quite senior he's older than me by another decade at least
and been doing this forever
uh and he asserted that he had clint he had solved the problems
and i believed him i needed to travel internationally
and also there was this buzz going around at the time
that uh if you had long covid which at you know at the time if you think back
to then
uh there was a whole cloud over even using the words long covid
that the idea that you would have these long lasting effects from getting the
infection
was controversial and not really accepted but partially promoted and there was
a narrative
that was you know in retrospect actively promoted that if you took the vaccines
and you and if you had
this symptom of this chronic malaise uh and uh loss of stamina i mean you're a
guy that's it's important to you to be physically fit for me it's been
important to be physically fit all my life because i've always been a farmer
uh and a carpenter and and worked with my hands and my body and i have farm
chores i still have farm chores every day and i couldn't do them i couldn't
walk up hills i just had lost my stamina i'd lost my pulmonary function
and it wasn't getting better and nobody you know nobody knew anything about
this what was causing it whether it was even real but i was experiencing it uh
you know there's there's a whole cluster of people who say there's no virus and
there's certainly not any long covid but i i experienced it
so and so it was it was promoted that if you took the jab and you had this
symptom yeah then it would kick your immune system up you get more of a
response to the spike antigen
and that would allow you to clear these symptoms of long covid that turns out
now we have data in just fairly recently that in fact the opposite is true
so this this idea of long covid so you got long covid from the actual infection
of covid 19 before the jab
yeah i got infected in uh late very end of february 2020 i was in boston at a
uh conference on drug discovery
computational drug discovery high throughput stuff um very high tech mit and
staying in a little firehouse
that had been converted to a hotel right across the street from the biotech
company where that the
initial boston outbreak was associated with and i came home sick as a dog i
thought that i had uh influenza b
because that was the what the narrative was that was circulating at the time
and uh i was just i remember
laying in bed just feeling sick as hell uh hard to breathe and my wife came in
it's just been on the tv
uh um coveted circulating right there in boston where you were uh so so that
was that was pretty early
on and it hit me pretty hard so that would have been um the uh wuhan one
variant and then there was a
couple of of uh genetic changes that occurred apparently in boston around that
time so how long did this
affect you this this long covid no i was i was sick until i took the jab um you
know just not not having
stamina just feeling uh how many months was that i i had never even thought
about it many months
and did you try anything else to mitigate those symptoms yeah i did so uh um
what my whole story you
know the whole bunch of what i did back then that never gets discussed and that's
okay but uh i you
know the kickoff was that i got this call from wuhan i think it was from wuhan
from this guy that
used to be cia named michael callahan uh who i'd worked with in the past and he
told me he told me with
the call that there was this virus in wuhan this coronavirus that looked like
it was going to be
serious and i ought to pay attention to it and i ought to get a team wound up
to try to address this so
what i'd done because this is coming off of what i did in zika you know i'm a
vaccinologist at core
but um developing a vaccine in the face of an outbreak historically has taken a
decade and uh it
just isn't a practical way to address an emergent infectious disease crisis and
i had become convinced
that the best way to do that was through repurposed drugs so after i get this
call i put the team together
building on the technology that i'd been working with at usamrid during zika
for a rapid identification of
uh of repurposed drugs uh to address a you know new crisis and uh this time we'd
really taken a
computational approach so i used some tech out of uc san francisco to recreate
one of the key proteins in
uh in sars covi 2 based on the sequence that got published from wuhan in this
january 11th i think
and uh of 2020 and uh um we started doing what's called computational docking
of very very large
virtual libraries using uh amazon aws and and high throughput parallel
processing and came up with a list of
compounds and uh then uh then kind of screen those against uh problems adverse
events um that kind of
stuff uh more coffee good uh i would thank you and um and so i had this list i
had i had this list of
compounds and then i was sick as a dog and you know what you get trained in if
you do clinical research
is docs don't um experiment on themselves that's like breaking the rules but i'm
lying there so sick
that i'm just like what the hell what do i got to lose i'm probably gonna die
you know i already at
that point i'd spent a lot of time already looking into the virus and what it
was causing and what
people were saying it was causing and how old were you at the time um let's see
i'm 66 now so that's
60 60 60 yeah so you were in a high risk group yeah for sure and and i was
obese i don't know if you
noticed but i've dropped about 40 to 50 pounds since we last met so uh so i
started taking some of those
compounds and one of them was uh this drug that is normally taken for stomach
acid called famatidine
and uh i got an immediate response with that and uh so i also tried isocorcetine
that didn't seem to
make so much of an impact on me but i experimented on myself and the famatidine
at higher doses
um now has been verified to be helpful and it was one of the first things out
of the box that people
started taking um even prophylactically before we knew about uh ivermectin and
other things and then
that went on i mean there's a whole thread here we could go on for an hour
about about what was done
with the repurposed drugs i was working closely with defense reduction agency
um and uh um i managed to
capture a few hundred million dollars uh and direct that towards uh drug repurposing
um adaptive clinical
clinical trials etc and uh the thing that i zoomed in on through a
collaboration with a doc up in
minnesota was the combination of famatidine another anti-inflammatory called
celecoxib
and then the thing that really kicked it in high gear was the forbidden horse
medicine uh ivermectin and uh
we got i managed to working with dod got um over 100 million dollars uh set up
a contract uh it got
managed by saic and uh we were going to go after that using a very cutting-edge
clinical trial um design
and uh
and remember this is the dod we submitted initial drug applications for using
this combination
of licensed drugs well-known licensed drugs and the fda just dug in um again
and again rejected the
application so long what they said was we were going to have to do cell culture
tests to
demonstrate the antiviral activity of ivermectin before they would allow us to
proceed
uh and so in the end the dod caved and they dropped the ivermectin component
and proceeded with
the uh famatidine and celecoxib which showed some effect why were they so
hesitant or what was the resistance i your your guess is as good as mine i
really people think that i have
visibility into the fda and yeah i've met with them and i have a background in
regulatory affairs
but the policy decisions that were made during covet uh and still to this day
are perplexing just particularly ivermectin oh it was it was uh like a high sin
yeah they they they
deployed uh what do you want to call it propaganda psychological warfare nudge
everything just like they did
after you and i had our little discussion um it was it was stunning i mean the
like after we had our chat
uh um i don't know if you remember you asked me about what is this about a mass
formation psychosis
yeah and it i mean the use the term broke the internet is overused it broke the
internet
yeah uh the search results on google went nuts and well because it perfectly
described what was
happening oh and couldn't be it no it couldn't possibly describe what was
happening even though
every single person that heard it knew damn well it did but it was forbidden i
mean this was forbidden
because for people who didn't hear our first discussion please explain mass
formation psychosis
so since then i've had a a shitstorm come at me for using the term psychosis
coupled with mass
formation you can't you know the grief you think you got a lot of grief from
spotify and from uh
spotify was actually great yeah no grief from them it was from like neil young
and joanie mitchell
and oh i artists so you probably then you probably don't know the whole
backstory okay um that's
that's fun to dive into because it relates to the psychological warfare domain
that now i've
become a pseudo expert on um just in trying to understand what the hell i
experienced and what's
going on so so matthias desma who's a friend um at university of ghent in belgium
who by the way has
been pretty well railroaded in his university now not allowed to teach his own
book on the psychological
basis of totalitarianism where which is where that book had not come out yet
but it was uh the mass
formation hypothesis is what was the kind of core of that book that's now
published and and widely
regarded uh so so matthias uh came matthias is somebody who uh as a phd a full
professor had long taught
uh 20th century uh uh psychology work relating to totalitarianism and thought
uh that goes back to
freud and beyond really all the way back to plato and the allegory of the cave
and in particular there
was a number of of philosophers in the 20th century associated with uh trying
to make sense of nazi
germany and what had happened to the german people and really all over the
world but particularly
relating to the germans and matthias had been teaching this on a regular basis
and the way he
tells the story he had an epiphany one day that oh my god the thing that i've
been teaching i'm living
we're experiencing we're experiencing this process of the formation of masses
um and the the you could
call it crowd psychology so mass formation it's kind of awkward or mass
formation psychosis which is
what the term was that was used in the initial podcast that he gave out so that's
why i use that term
uh but you know it's not in the the the attack was that it's not in the
diagnostics and statistical manual
uh for the american psychiatric association so therefore it doesn't exist uh um
uh but you know all the
attacks uh but um the core of it is that when people to make it simple become
disassociated from
society and from each other they become extremely vulnerable to manipulation of
a variety of different
types and a leader can come into that environment and uh offer let's to
simplify it um offer a solution
to their pain because being isolated socially isolated is associated with pain
we as human beings
have a need to connect with others it's a fundamental aspect of being human it's
what you do i mean you
connect that's that's the essence of the joe rogan experience i think um so we
need to connect with
others and in in certain situations where people are threatened um and in
particular in the modern era
where we have all of these things that drive us into isolation most notably our
electronic tools
uh we become disassociated from our community and when that happens we have a
strong need to become
associated with community and a leader can come into that environment and
basically say i have the solution
to your pain your psychological pain and uh what will happen is a strange
phenomena where people will
rather than building social networks let's say horizontally to those around
them
they'll attach to this strong leader and they'll get that they'll get
fulfillment for that need to
belong by this attach attachment to that leader and following the edicts of
that leader
and this leads to this phenomena that gives rise you know enables totalitarianism
but uh gives rise to
this whole cluster of things that mistius described uh that um you know he he
uses the term mass
formation in a way that's kind of an odd artifact of translation i guess from
the dutch uh it's an easier way to
think of it is a crowd formation um and uh and in his uh examination of the
history of what happened in nazi
germany where things people really went crazy i mean mothers were turning their
children in uh you know
children are being executed on the on you know consequent to mother's testimony
which is really strange when you
think about it just you know in a fundamental way uh you know we had all of
this uh dear leader
kind of stuff uh the the um uh linkage of of the self and the soul to this
central figure in deriving
a sense of identity and belonging from that that went on and and you know there's
still uh people from
that generation in germany that um are still caught up in in a lot of that that's
why the german laws
uh and um so that's that's that's that's the short version when we spoke before
i gave a much more
technical precise uh definition of matias's uh core thesis
uh but um this once this happens then people become very very easily
manipulated through propaganda and a
variety of techniques that now i have a better comprehension of i mean then i
was still just
trying to make sense just like all of us what the heck was going on what's with
this crazy uh
uh but now uh it's kind of uh coalesced into an understanding of of the fact
that
modern psychology has been weaponized it's been intentionally weaponized in the
context of military
activities in the domain that you know one way to express it the term is used
kind of term of art in
military jargon is fifth generation warfare or you call it psychological
warfare and what it
distinguishes the present from say uh sun tzu and you know ancient propaganda
has always been part of
warfare warfare in humans but uh we haven't had the digital world we haven't
had modern psychology we
haven't had nudge technology we haven't had all these tools that allow the
control of information thought
um perception feelings emotions uh that have become commonplace
and that you know is is and has has you know this this suite of technology and
capabilities that we saw
deployed in all of us were uh built in a kind of a structured way largely by uk
and us leadership
in the intelligence community as a weapon of war to counter these uh successful
insurgencies that we keep
losing wars over uh you know vietnam being a notable example all the way
through afghanistan and uh um
so that that's why it was built uh but then that tech um got deployed by
governments against their own
citizens and this was really launched uh in large part uh in the united states
by a presidential
directive from barack obama i'm not making this up uh you can look it up and by
the way the
presidential directive is still in place that established the uh um nudge
technology units
in the united states they were already operating in the uk and in the uk it's
quite advanced when
you look at the uk politics right now and what's going on there with all the
censorship and everything
you know this is you know this is no joke we're we're barreling right to that
end point same as canada
has uh you know we're just a little bit behind and uh there they you know we
have the benefit of the
first amendment in a constitution and um you know often on courts but uh there
they they don't have
those obstacles and the government believes in the uk that once they have won
an election it's perfectly
acceptable to deploy this modern psychology and information control technology
on their own
population and i argue that once that rubicon is crossed the idea of democracy
because the tech is so
powerful becomes completely perverted and we got a good hard taste of that
during covet what what you and
i experienced what you experienced with ivermectin what you experienced with uh
you know just talking about
your own experiences uh and the blowback that happened after we did that little
hit uh um
is is a super powerful clear case study in understanding this intersection of
modern psychology uh warfare
technology and uh the digital world uh and uh and algorithmic control of
information the uh
creation of digital avatars for all of us the application now in present of
artificial intelligence to
custom craft uh messaging uh that gets fed into our digital domains on a
regular basis in order to
you know sell us whatever uh but also to shape how we think and uh to control
what information we get
access to all the time just to give an example my wife who does a lot of our
research for our substack
was talking to me the other day she she just gave me a couple examples where uh
um stories that were in
corporate media in the united states that weren't listing certain key names or
whatever
she said i just go to the hindustu times hindustu times is a great source for
all the
stuff that we're not allowed to see here in the united states you're now in an
environment in an
information environment where you cannot um uh rely on but we all know that you
can't rely on
in corporate media but the but the but the the the rules the boundaries that
are being set up
about information are profound and they're completely distorting our ability to
process what's happening around us can i give you the example of what actually
happened you you said
in in our example with the blowback in spotify this is documented by a
a report out um from the house about covet and what happened and that report
only carries just through
to the early part of the vaccines and then it stops they for some reason they
didn't really want to go
down the road to the vaccines they did talk a lot about the um events around uh
the let's say lab leak
hypothesis uh which is allowed you're allowed in dc now to talk about that
finally yeah you're still
you're well and it was about four years later you were yeah yeah yeah um uh so
what was documented
was that uh that the trail of events was that we had our discussion
that triggered and this is going to sound bizarre but this is what's documented
that triggered coca-cola
corporation to complain to the global alliance for responsible media which is
created by the world
economic forum it is one of these global aggregators that controls advertising
the global alliance for responsible media which by the way had a dust up with
uh elon musk and lost
and they closed it down as a non-profit it still exists in other ways but as a
structure that could be sued
by x it disappeared when he stood up against it but global alliance for
responsible media had a socket
with google adsense by the way so they control the advertising ecosystem which
kind of matters to spotify
so coca-cola complains to garm saying this guy rogan you got to shut him down
okay you got to put
pressure on spotify so spotify gets the message from garm that we're gonna we're
threatening to pull your
advertising okay now what happens between that and your experience i don't know
you know it's not
not transparent to me what you experienced uh yeah we all remember the um laurel
canyon crowd saying they
were going to pull their catalogs which they didn't actually own right that was
that was another thing
and then they they went after you uh with this uh mashup of inward uh historic
uh events um you know
you know there was clearly a concerted effort to take out joe rogan uh much
more than to take out robert
malone and uh so then the question comes why the heck would coca-cola be the
socket with the global
alliance for response one of the biggest advertisers in the world right why coca-cola
give a hooey
about what joe rogan said to robert malone on you know uh new year's eve uh coca-cola
is really tight
with the cdc coca-cola has funded buildings at the cdc coca-cola funds the um cdc
foundation foundation
for the cdc as does bill and melinda gates has done all the major vaccine
manufacturers etc etc
the appearance is i can't verify this that cdc acted through its ally coca-cola
why are they allies
what's coca-cola got to do with cdc the angle there is that coca-cola wanted
the cdc to get
who to not implement restrictions in messaging about sugar use
okay they didn't want those messages remember this is at the heart of the
inverted food triangle now
the the old food triangle was the product of sugar lobby i mean the sugar lobby
is incredibly powerful
because this stuff is addictive i mean it's it's like having the cocaine lobby
right um well and you
know that's an interesting uh analogy because of course the history of coca-cola
right uh but um
so sugar is addictive uh the cdc the coca-cola didn't want the cd wanted the cdc
to influence
public health policy to avoid um uh global positions on the risks associated
with sugar intake
because it would potentially hurt their market share wouldn't you know they're
a major globalized
company so that's that little ecosystem that i just described illustrates what
we're dealing with
here and the many ways that um all of this kind of influence and messaging and
signaling happens in
this kind of integrated horizontally and vertically ecosystem that we live in
right now and one of
the things that came out of that you'll recall was that you were asked as i
recall you you gave this
you know i i've had a hostage video i think that was a close to a hostage video
from you back in the
day when you were saying this is what i'm going to do uh it was like out on
your porch or something
i remember i was sitting around a campfire in maui quite literally when
somebody said oh did you just
see this from rogan and uh a matter of fact i was sitting around gavin de becker's
uh campfire at
that time somebody that you know and uh so um the compromise was that there
would be a little trailer
put at the bottom of that episode and by the way you probably know that episode
for a long time became
very hard to find uh it was it was basically blacklisted from the search
engines etc etc
but you it carries on i think it still does that little banner that says you
know you should go to
the cdc if you want the true true about covet and you can still find that those
kinds of banners
popping up all the time on youtube if you if you talk about vaccines or covet
vaccines that will get
if if you pass the filters if if youtube will allow that to still be up um
because you didn't say
something whatever it is uh then you'll get the little banner okay that banner
is pushed out by the nudge
units at the cdc okay that is nudge technology it is all around us all the time
and it's it's basically
still uh public policy consequent to the old obama presidential directive that
still hasn't been rescinded
uh you know i love president trump i think he's doing amazing things i think he's
amazingly brave
uh i've just mentioned our friend gavin de becker referred to trump the other
day when i saw gavin in
in uh maui as a once in 500 year leader and that's that's not that's not
nothing coming from gavin
and uh so i'm i'm a big supporter but the president has still left in place
this mechanism that exists uh
that directs the federal government to use nudge technology and related uh what
i assert is
psychological warfare technology on the american populace right this is from
back in what was it
2015 or something like yeah it's it's quite early um and then you had his you
had obama's subsequent
like the notorious speech at hoover at stanford where he talks about in order
to preserve democracy
we're going to have basically says we're going to have to have censorship right
uh in order to preserve
democracy or whatever democracy is for people that don't know what we're
talking about we're relating to
the smith munt act the smith munt everybody focuses on smith munt um but as i
examine smith munt and we
did an essay on this in the substack um you know like three years ago because
that was the kind of the
narrative that was coming out in let's say our side of alternative media right
and uh in my examination
smith munt's impact is a lot more limited it has to do with voice of america
and some other things
the broad impact wasn't quite in my opinion what was believed to be of of
enabling propaganda
domestically more specifically um there is a presidential directive
that nudge technology that established a nudge office that nudge technology
shall be used
what do they call it they don't call it a nudge office right they they i don't
know it's it's got
they've they've gone through various iterations and i'm sorry i don't have the
latest version and it's
kind of become decentralized it was called the social and behavioral science
team uh wikipedia
says that that was stopped in 2017 but continued under the trump administration
under sorry uh the
general services administration's office of evaluation science there we go yeah
boy yeah yeah it's and it's
kind of become it's been like i said it's been pushed out into a lot of the
agencies um they don't use that
that lexicon because then it's easy to find them right and they use there's
other euphemisms they use
to describe those kinds of activities but it's become normalized the the weaponization
of propaganda
has become normalized there's the wording from overall behavioral interventions
or nudges like
the ones implemented by oes have been found to be effective in recent
psychological science article
researchers identified several policy areas of interest example healthcare here
we go 2015 is
when it was implemented so 2015 executive president obama signs an exact
executive order requiring
federal agencies to incorporate behavioral insights into their evaluation
efforts that's a nice way of
saying use of propaganda on the american people yeah yeah okay and so this this
has kind of become
um thank you so much for for pulling that up that's super helpful so um this
this is like i said
if i can illustrate i was on a great britain news broadcast about four years
ago uh at the time
when they would you know i was there was a window time where they would have me
on but it was sketchy
um and gb news was the only one that would do it and uh but the rules were then
that if you were going
to have somebody that was speaking against the government narrative then you
had to have somebody
representing the government's interests in the same broadcast so that's uh
implemented by basically
the uk has an active censorship organization that controls news media and uh so
i'm on with this guy
great britain news pinstripe bowtie you know it just uh reeks and um and i'm
talking about
psychological warfare and uh the 77th brigade which is part of the british army
which is their uh
psychological warfare unit it's very open uh that that's the case uh as is the
existence of of
of uh um a civilian branch that they set up and paid people to do social media
in opposition of
counter narratives uh that the government didn't approve of i mean now they
just under starmer they
just censor you and send you to jail uh they just cut out the middleman yeah uh
but back then they were
still uh kind of buying civilians and so i'm talking about this and uh that's
that the the guy says yeah
but here in the uk um our belief is that if the government wins the election
they have the right
to govern and that right to govern includes our ability to use this type of
technology and we believe
that it's justified to do so and that when that conversation happened frankly i
hadn't we hadn't
launched the book yet cywar which is our most recent publication and uh and it
just kind of all coalesced
in my mind that oh my god what all these things matthias is teaching about mass
formation what i saw
what i experienced with you what i experienced with the concerted attacks of
the media um and then
subsequently it's been validated by this congressional report that talks about
for instance the juror ticket
system juror tickets are are what it's a system that all the software companies
use to track uh glitches and
uh complaints and stuff like that well the government had their own juror
ticket system
set up to log um information about activities of persons that they wanted to
have censored and suppressed
and they would build these juror tickets with information and so one of the
things that's out
on the congressional report was that i actually had a juror ticket i was
surprised that this is the case
or i'm not surprised in retrospect uh and in my personal sins were that i was
listed as an anti-vaxxer
and a conservative even though you're a vaccinologist and a conservative that's
interesting
and a conservative yeah exactly right i mean the stuff that's coming out that's
wild it's it's
fascinating to query things like crock even crock um uh um about uh certain
subjects and and you will
find where they have algorithmically built firewalls and and you can you can
approach them and detect them
uh um because um it will it will act dumb oh you know it'll lock up seemingly
it won't give you that
answer or it'll talk around the issue etc etc you can identify these things
that have been built in
algorithmically and of course then we we had all of the disclosures the zuckerberg
uh oh i'm so sorry
uh apology tour that happened to remember when basically got outed by congress
and and the rest
of the tech bros uh and of course the thing that catalyzed all of that was that
elon decided to pony
up a good chunk of change and buy by twitter which i think is one of the most
impactful decisions that
any american citizen has ever made amazing if he didn't do that i think we
would be really screwed
uh there's how how can you debate that how can you debate it when you look at
the twitter files and
you find out how much the government was involved in censoring accurate
information from legitimate
professors esteemed researchers anybody who didn't go along with the official
narrative it's it's all
coming out now in spades and and we're dealing now the lovely thing about all
of this i mean let's let's
try to it is morning in america in my opinion i mean a lot of people get very
dark and and there's a
darkness to the times but there's you know not to push the metaphor too far but
there there is um new
light coming in and the fact that we can now see this and we recognize that you
and i are a similar
generation i mean one of my earliest memories was the assassination of the
president and all of the
propaganda around that the propaganda around vietnam war ever since we've just
been swimming
in information control that's gotten increasingly sophisticated and uh
fortunately as americans
we also kind of have become more and more immune to marketing and propaganda
over time because we've
been living with it trying to discern what is real and what is you know false
again this is if it's
a core part of what you do for a living i think is is just try to you know have
conversations
to be able to get to the bottom of the uh but um that we've we've been swimming
in it and now we can
see it we can see the the structures that you know the the power of artificial
intelligence and influence
mapping and all the things that are going on the internet right now that are
the cutting cutting
edge technology they're scary because they could be weaponized against us but
they're also super cool
because we can now see those relationships if you want an example of that look
at the the threads that are
coming out on x uh illuminating the uh networks of affiliation associated with
this latest epstein file
release just mind-blowing mind-blowing uh and and it is just just like you know
we can we can sit
here and bitch and whine saying oh they didn't release that blah blah blah this
is this is redacted all
that's true but still the the impact of of that information and we're still
getting to the bottom
of it it's completely changed most people's narrative of what happened like we
had this
sort of vague understanding you know but when you see in the email like clear
evidence that they're
talking about children in in pretty obscene ways horrifying ways so that was
the thing that like
even i when i talked to mike benz about that he was sort of incredulous about
that it's like
i don't think they would use children it just doesn't make any sense if they
got caught but it just seems
like yeah if we were if mike benz was incredulous i know that's pretty big all
right well i just don't
think we really knew until we saw those files come out yeah and then you go oh
well you there's no
denying it now my position on is completely shifted i thought there's probably
some really sick people
that have an appetite for that but i hadn't seen any real evidence for it until
these files and now
i'm like oh this is demonic this is clearly demonic the okay so thank you for
saying that um uh i'm
somebody who was raised a christian and went to bible school and that kind of
stuff as a kid
and youth groups uh and then growing up in central coast of california let's
say um veered in different
ways uh but uh the experiences that we've encountered over the last half a
dozen years
it's hard to come up with a language to express what we're observing in the
world
other than than the language of theology well demonic by action so whether or
not demons exist if they
did exist that is how they would behave they would pray on children and torture
children
and there was the one where there was a suggestion where a child was praying to
jesus
that like there was a joke that someone should dress up like jesus
i'm i do you see that one no i i'm not i'm not watching i don't even want to i
don't even want
people send it to me and i go okay because i'm pretty for the most part off
social media
but every now and then someone will send me something that i have to look at i'm
like oh my god
yeah and these are these are emails back and forth there's one of them where epstein
says i enjoyed the
torture video there's these references to pizza a lot of references to pizza
that are 100 some kind
of a code yeah and then it brings you back to pizzagate yeah and which was
widely dismissed you
know everybody's like oh this is a bunch of kooks here it is uh she said she
felt god's presence next
to her when she was in bed she knows that jesus watches over her and he helps
her save he helped
save her life and then he writes whoops and then in response jeffrey epstein
says you should dress up
as him when you see her um it it is it is dark you should dress up like jesus
when you see her what the
fuck and well look at you're talking about a little kid look at the line look
at the line above it
how do my how am i supposed to interpret i'm coming trick the oh jesus i'm
coming trick
it's just the the whole thing but so so we see this darkness it involves uh
leaders in academe
in science in industry in politics yeah and and it it just you know i i
remember a point in this
arc of the last six years where a film crew came onto my farm and wanted to
shoot some segments
and they were talking this and frankly i thought it was crazy talk um i kind of
smiled and and you know
tried to be civil and nice not contradict them uh uh about the new world order
and um uh and then
along comes you know then my wife one day says hey you ought to look at this
book from klaus schwab
it's called the new world order like what i mean he was just saying it out loud
yeah i mean the world
economic forum had those ads where they were saying you will own nothing and
you will be happy yeah
and and it goes back to the current king of england was the guy that kind of
launched that he was the
first one to be really talking about that's that you can if you you can go use
your use your favorite ai
and track it down yourself uh i prefer not to use google these days to try to
find stuff but uh
it it we see vertical after vertical after vertical after vertical where um
information has been crafted and
been manipulated and the same tools of uh of uh of delegitimization of uh um
uh uh promotion of uh these messages uh that you are a conspiracy theorist or
uh um uh that you are
uh uh controlled opposition is another favorite one a lot of this was pioneered
in the 60s by the fbi
against the various protest movements and you can go back and track that okay
the the the narrative of
uh um uh uh being a a collaborator uh surreptitiously is called bad jacketing
uh and and it has its own
its own its own language and and protocols for how to do this to people to
divide movements we're we're
we're in this i mean in a way it's kind of a glorious moment where you we're
having uh
a huge amount of social uh pressures coming together in this moment in time
that you and i happen to live
in how fantastic is that to be at a point in time where there is so much change
there's so much
social interaction and pressure and competition between these different
philosophies and and
we're swimming in it i from as somebody writes on a daily basis these essays on
substat because that's
how i make my living now because i can't do what i used to do uh um it's it's
you're a kid in a candy
shop there there's so much corruption there's so much falsehood being promoted
there's so much
of this uh manipulation of of reality and so if if you're in the business of of
trying to help
people to make sense out of that which is kind of what i do now for a living uh
it's you know i wake
up every morning people i get the feedback how do you come up with all these
ideas i'm like how do you
not all you got to do is keep your eyes open yeah it's not hard to search
anymore so so you talked
about ivermectin i mean the ivermectin story is is still ongoing there was an
announcement the other
day from hhs that they are launching new initiatives to investigate the use of
ivermectin and cancer
and there was immediate blowback uh along the lines of oncologists are outraged
you know the
narrative is uh bobby you know not saying this explicitly but basically bobby
kennedy is at it
once again promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories and it's gonna you know
we're all gonna die
because uh because scientists are going to investigate the use of ivermectin
and and other
drugs why i can't answer so this is the this is the core question and this is
one of the things that
puzzled me to no end i understood that they were upset that i had gotten better
without the use of the
vaccine that i was a popular person that i was a famous person and i made a
video about a canceled
show dave chapelle and i were supposed to do a show and i made that video to
let everyone know that i
couldn't do the show because i had covered i had no idea it was going to be
even controversial but
i listed a bunch of things that i took and the shit hit the fan i talked about
iv vitamins yeah i talked
about monoclonal antibodies i talked about which were allowed prednisone yeah
all these things that i
talked about z pack i talked about all these different things that i took there
was no mention
of any of those things there was only ivermectin and that's what really puzzled
me i was like this is
fascinating because i listed a bunch of different things but there's no demonization
of monoclonal
antibodies but they did make them much harder to get and eventually pulled them
i i have a friend and his
friend was in the hospital and they wouldn't administer monoclonal antibodies
once he got
into the hospital they wouldn't allow him to have what went on in the hospital
is a whole nother thing
but that's crazy but so so the the why the why that only medication the only
two threads that i can pull
on at all is that ivermectin is a miracle drug i mean nobel prize right right
uh we don't understand
completely how it works in this case it doesn't seem to be working as an antiviral
it seems to be
working as an immune stimulant pro-inflammatory or or pro-immune response in
some way that's subtle
uh because it has this broad spectrum of activity against things that have a an
immune response
component and controlling but it's off patent right they don't understand it it's
off patent and it
it the response is as if it represents a significant threat to some business
interests it's hard to discern
that and you mentioned z-pack so that's another fascinating one and to say that
it was only
ivermectin ivermectin was the most prominent but they were actually effective
in shutting down
the the z-pack um uh the use of hydroxychloroquine and hydroxychloroquine has a
fascinating story when
you mention z-pack you're talking about zev zelenko and zev was the one that
wrote the letter to the
president saying hey here's this data and this information about this drug that
is off patent
we have a huge portfolio of experience in using it um millions and millions of
doses it's safe in
pregnancy uh what's not to like here in in the story of that is is a
fascinating microcosm because
it goes back to ralph barrick ralph barrick had published that um back years
ago when you know he's
he's kind of the guru of coronaviruses and a good case can be made that he had
his fingers all over
the engineering of this particular virus uh so he had published that this drug
was effective against
coronaviruses and zev zelenko who's passed away now um uh got engaged in trying
to find some way to help
his patients in new york with uh recovering from covet and uh treating covet
and he went back did a deep
dive into into barracks work pulled out this drug hydroxychloric that had been
recommended wrote to
the president about it to start he got clinical experience with it um and you
know caveat um uh mickey
willis is doing a uh bio uh on zev now um and i'm involved in that so conflict
of interest but uh
uh he was the one that pulled it out sent the letter to the president with his
clinical experience
president tasked peter navarro was sourcing the drug for the and and peter
economist went to town
i remember uh the company i was working with olchem at the time getting a call
from peter can you come up
up with some way to make more of this drug here domestically we want to source
it so we have enough
doses for everybody and then i think it was lancet published this paper that
had totally made up data
that trashed the drug said that it's toxic doesn't work blah blah blah it was
all fake okay they pulled
the paper when it became revealed that it was based on non-existent data that
it was more propaganda
published in one of the top medical journals in the united states but by that
time it was completely
crushed so they didn't have to go after z stack they'd already killed z stack ivermectin
though that
was a new threat and one of the reasons why it was a threat was there was a um
meta-analysis that
had been done at the cochrane so the cochrane institute in the uk is like you
know the holy grail for
analysis of drugs uh in biologics and uh this process of meta-analysis they
kind of they kind of wrote
the rules for how to do it and they had done an analysis that showed that ivermectin
was quite
effective uh and um then something happened and uh there was some influence
exerted and suddenly
that meta-analysis got quenched it got squashed um there were two investigators
that uh were involved
in building that um one kind of went underground and and got a big grant and
carried on as an academic
the other one got so pissed off that she created this organization called the
world council for health
that's teslaurie and uh she really objected to what happened but ivermectin you
know there was a signal
there there was a clear signal there there was data supporting that signal and
then something happened
to cause that meta-analysis to be restructured and certain studies that were
showing how effective
it was to be thrown out and then the suppression of the data coming out of india
you remember that uh
urbh pradesh and and urbh pradesh and and uh and i guess it had kind of it's
like the cat was out of the
bag and they had trouble putting it back in so they just my sense is they
turned up the amplitude on the on the
uh propaganda and the censorship in order to try to overcome this and and i'm
pretty sure
remember who was it that held the original patent merck now i was involved um
as an observer on behalf of of
of ditra to the active trials that were going on under the foundation for nih
which is sponsored in
a significant way by merck and which is now headed up by the former head of merck
vaccines julie gerberding
uh bobby can't get her out it's the rules uh and they were running these
clinical trials including the clinical trial that
essentially by tweaking the dosing etc made it so that they came up with a
result suggesting that ivermectin is not effective
there there was a whole lot of manipulation in the why part still the best
explanation i've heard is that it
had a lot to do with uh
the risk that if there was an effective countermeasure then the utilization of
the prep act
and the emergency countermeasures uh um uh to a process to enable fast tracking
of these vaccines
uh using this new technology uh would no longer be valid because those are the
rules is if there's
an existing countermeasure then you can't uh implement those clauses so it's
all about emergency use
authorization it's the i don't know that that's the case it's it is the only
thing that makes sense when
you see how much profit they made which which was enormous enormous so it was
effective and yeah all
that propaganda regardless of how much exposed them and exposed their methods
they made hundreds of
billions of dollars uh uh it well and and that that the ugliest part of all of
this i mean people
the big big picture when i talk to people that are still kind of on the fence
trying to make sense out
of it you know still a lot of those folks out there the the thing that kind of
gets into their brain
is the greatest upward transfer of wealth in modern history occurred during
covet yeah it wasn't just the
the vaccines it was the whole enterprise with the lockdowns lockdowns all the
the what was done to
small businesses what was done uh to the economy the stimulus packages they're
still digging out of all
that fraud uh it it you know in retrospect uh for for average folks uh that are
just trying to put food on
the table and pay their rent uh to look at in retrospect what was you know
quite literally done to them the
middle class was hollowed out in like on hyperspeed uh this so yeah i'm still
pissed off about this
well you should be the thing is not enough people are and so many people let it
go and part of the reason
why not enough people are pissed off about it is because they took the vaccine
and they want to
justify their decision and you will talk to a lot of people that make this
blanket claim
the vaccine saved millions of lives and they'll just say that yeah because that's
the propaganda along
with fault with safe and effective that was a promoted narrative and that was
by the way the
rationale given by the nobel prize committee to award to currico and weissman
was that these products
which they had the the thesis is they had been playing the central role i
disagree i think peter
colis is the one that should have got it if you're going to give it for if you're
going to give it for
these vaccines it was peter colis and his team at ubc that really was the
enabling tech
but be that as it may the decisions made and the committee said basically uh
you know millions of
lives have been saved and by giving this nobel at this time we are we hope that
it will promote more
people to accept this product that that was explicitly the logic given at the
time and that reflects what
was really a thrust vector joe i i've you know it's what a bizarre world since
we met uh and and so i've
been sucked into uh to call it the center right of europe is a little bit of a
misnomer because
they're all socialists as far as i'm concerned georgia maloney and everybody
else but you know compared
to the far left uh they're labeled as neo-nazis but i've been traveling to
europe interacting with these
people you think it was bad for us the european union the uk and the canada
were an order of
magnitude worse that we we we should be so grateful that we live in this
country at this time and that
we still have something like a functioning constitution with the first and
second amendment uh look at the
poor suckers in australia and new zealand yeah uh you know it uh remind
yourself it could be a heck of a
lot worse here and it has been a heck of a lot worse in in europe i've got
buddies in romania in the
leading uh um alternative party you know calling it center right let's say but
um uh that uh you know
recently i think it was the vice president came out and said specifically that
that last election was
stolen it was in in romania georgescu uh they tried to put in jail and the
logic was that uh i think it
was tiktok supporting his campaign had been sponsored by the russians it was
the same game that they played
against trump of russian collusion they played that same book in romania
successfully but in the european
union environment under the european council they they don't you know they ain't
got a constitution
and they can just step right in and and throw you in jail inactivate your
candidacy do whatever if
you represent a populist threat to the existing structure we talk about the
deep state but it's it it
doesn't you know yeah it's a problem here but and and thank you mike benz i
defer to as as a notable
expert in that space but uh it's it's a lot worse in europe and australia and
canada and the uk and uh
i think you know we're we're in a in a perilous time here in the united states
where
you know we have the midterm coming up but
but people like bobby are making progress and these dissident physicians that
have risked so many
things uh and i'm just one you know people i hear people saying oh robert robert
they've been so mean
to you i'm like come on guys um you think they've been mean to me then look at
what they did to bobby
and then if you know and then look i don't have a nick out of my ear you know
look at what they did to
trump what they did to me is just i'm i'm nobody compared to that and they're
willing to deploy that
kind of capability against me uh think about what's really going on at the
higher levels where where
the big games are being played and uh you know at least we can see it now at
least we have for those
of us that have our eyes open we have some ability to be aware but what what i've
spent the last two
years mostly trying to convince people about i hardly ever talk about rna i
said um oh i joe i got
to give a caveat um forgive me um the opinions i'm expressing here are my own
and not those of the
u.s government the cdc or the acip there i said it okay um but you know we we're
in a moment where
we're seeing this how the levers the gears of how all this works give you an
example tomorrow
friday february 13th what could possibly go wrong uh um hopefully my plane
flight out of here works
okay and they don't have a drone attack or something right um so tomorrow there's
a lawsuit
filed on behalf of the american academy of pediatrics that seeks to shut down
the advisory
committee on immunization practices and uh the changes that bobby's implemented
there
uh and uh force all of that to go back to the way things were when it was
functionally controlled
by the professional societies and particularly the american academy of pediatrics
they they they
we talk about this you know propaganda and weaponization and and uh lawfare and
those things
and we talk about it as if it only happened in the last administration it's it's
still ongoing all the
time and it is going to go big time if if the house turns which i think it
probably will i mean
there's a good chance that they've already drawn up articles of impeachment
against secretary
kennedy they're talking about articles impeachment against president trump we're
about to go into another
two years of stagnation uh and and um you know functional uh what do we call it
we can't call
it civil war um uh you know um war by other means uh is is where we're heading
right now but at this
moment uh i'm seeing major movement you know kennedy is doing great stuff the
president is doing great
stuff we're seeing a transformation in america's global reach uh totally restructuring
global politics
and on the health side the make america healthy again movement you know there's
there's some pushback
against that and the heck of a lot of propaganda being deployed against it well
it's this old quote
that seems sort of abstract for most people most of the time but rings kind of
true but you're
finding it true more and more money is the root of all evil uh profound a
simple but profound yeah i mean
this is the the covet thing with ivermectin and alternative medications off-label
medications why money
i think it also has to do with control right i think there's more money a fair
access to money
yeah it's it's it's money and power right in my mind but power yeah they don't
want power without
money they want they want to benefit from that power i i believe for the likes
of larry fink and bill
gates i mean they can't spend all that they have right it's a marker it's a it's
like chips you're
stacking up exactly right they're scoring in a video game yeah yeah yeah and
and but also captured by
their past actions and constantly trying to obfuscate from all the things that
they have done in the
past that could be like if you just went into bill gates's stuff that he did in
africa oh giving
children polio with the polio vaccine that was from the ap news africa in india
yeah i mean he's kind
of banned from india uh the yeah so i don't get it i don't get where these
people live i i'm i'm happy
you know as far as i'm concerned i could walk away from all this stuff it's
just kind of a sense of
obligation of what are you going to do when you're 66 i have this opportunity
to impact in a positive way
on the world on my way out the door uh who wouldn't take it well i guess a lot
of people wouldn't but i
don't have a need to have power i have thank god for my substack subscribers i
have all all that i need
my wife is happy my horses are fed my farm is paid off it's it's you know it's
and i have the luxury of
of doing good works and that's enough i don't i don't get this this global
power thrust because
that's not what you do that's not your thing but if you were a politician or
you were some
megalomaniacal billionaire sort of business character that just wants to
dominate and was
involved in a bunch of antitrust lawsuits in the past that would be not that we're
naming any names
not that we're naming any names that bribed off multimedia corporations to the
tune of 300 plus
million dollars so that they wouldn't write bad stories about him or or uh owns
you know functionally
owns the world health organization right and a giant chunk of american farmland
for was for a while trying
to put that push that fake meat shit on everybody until that dropped off a
cliff yeah and yeah so this
the business models aren't working out so good for the globalists are they i
think a lot of it is
because of information that's available now yeah and you can't control like one
of the things that did
happen during covid is these places like cnn people stopped going to for
information they don't believe
them anymore there's just too much bullshit and no one got in trouble for
spreading that
bullshit there was no corrections no redactions no no apologies yeah and no
acknowledgement
people now more than ever in my lifetime mistrust mainstream media and polls
show that that polls
show that the trust of mainstream media is at an all-time low for good reason
they did it to themselves
they prostituted themselves out to the pharmaceutical drug companies they had
to say what they had to
say on television people knew what they were saying was incorrect and now no
one trusts them so to this
thread about four years ago i i read a report from the trusted news initiative
you remember the tni
yeah it was launched by the bbc right uh to counter russian disinformation and
then repurposed to counter
vaccine disinformation uh and they and i read this report about i'd gone on
your show so i was a little
bit of a fan uh forgive me uh and um so i'm reading this report and they're
talking about threats to the
the industry because tni is basically another trade organization it's another
guild uh it's a global uh
major media guild and uh so they're they're doing this internal analysis and
reporting and and they're
talking about the risk factors that they face and they had a whole great big
section on joe rogan
joe rogan represents uh that that was that was their uh threat that that was
the major threat to their
business model is you and what you represent you as a metaphor for this new
information economy
and by god they called it right it's it's and and when i this again this has
been part of my journey
when i realized what i was experiencing and what it meant to come on your show
and have that um event
occur which would by the way blew up my subscribers on substack thank you so
much i still get a wave
every year about in in the month following so january i get a big bump in
revenue well it blew up our
subscribers on spotify too during the heat of it we gained in one month we
gained two million
subscribers i had we at now i had i had oh yeah please what is this what's the
spotify subscribers
i never even i know youtube is over 20 20 million what is spotify at
so while he's looking that up i had this bizarre experience you know i'm just
an old gray-haired
guy with a with you know i'm about to have my 47th wedding anniversary
congratulations thank
you um i'm proud of it um uh i would have 20 year olds come up in the street
and fist bump me
i'm like what the hell
yeah well they don't have a representative i mean they don't see all males all
males yes males
those males don't have anybody in mainstream news that represents anything that
resembles them
i know i'm much older than them but i never went down this path of decay and
weirdness that a lot of
adult males go into corporate business and industry and they become something
unrecognizable to these
young men who have freedom in life and they're being suppressed and they're
being told that they're
toxic that was a singer right there yeah young men that have freedom in life
yeah and then they
compromise they don't want to be what their dad is they don't want to be what
their uncle is they
don't want to be these people that they work for they're like what is this
fucking bullshit life
i don't want that i know i'm being lied to i know the news is full of shit and
i know that this
one guy who is uh also a cage fighting commentator and a comedian and doesn't
have to lie like i'm not
being i don't have a boss really i mean spotify promotes the show they put the
show out we're in
partnership with them but there's no one telling me what to do which is why you're
here right now
because there's no one i don't have a conversation with no one i literally like
reach out to my guy
and say hey contact robin contact mr malone and let's get him back on all i
know all i know is i
got a message uh from through x yeah well i was saying joe rogan do you want to
come on that was
actually me that message is me which i rarely use those things but i was trying
to figure out how to
contact you so i reached out to you there and then i sent it to my guy and he
takes care of it like
that's it there's no one else there's no one involved in all that which you
could still be you
that way as soon as you get involved in enormous groups of humans and a bunch
of board you have to
sit down at a table with other executives you have to make decisions based on
the profitability of the
company and shareholders and stuff i have none of that yeah it's a skeleton
crew so
as i look back you know the question why were you able to do this malone um why
were you able to
you know oh you were so brave dr malone i could well robert malone that name
became like a pejorative
yeah it became like oh yeah that malone guy yeah it's it's all weaponized yeah
um but but then
on the other side i you know i tour i do these rallies and stuff like this and
uh you know
my wife it really makes my wife nervous i i'm
the middle-aged women come up to me and they want to have selfies uh and and i
get this uh oh dr malone
you were so brave you're such a hero kind of stuff which i frankly find a
little embarrassing i mean it's
sweet but um yeah there's a lot of heroes really why why why why was it yeah
yeah the guys that that
you know um defend the nation right uh um but why was able to speak i think a
big part of it was i had
no debt um i wasn't beholden to anybody right and uh like you say i'd been
about a decade being a
consultant a free living consultant and it had gotten under my skin i've always
been independent you
know farmer carpenter kind of stuff uh and um that's i guess been part of my
problem is i just don't
fit in in corporate life i i can't suck up to people and it's just not in me
well it's a very unhealthy
environment for anybody to get sucked into that bizarre group think it's just
good word um yes so so yeah
so so uh the this decentralized subscriber base model the epiphany was and i'm
being quite sincere
you know it was one of those moments my wife and i looked at each other and we
said what the hell are
we gonna do now um our consulting business is shot nobody wants to talk to me i've
been delegitimized
they say i don't know what i know i haven't done what i've done uh and this has
been promoted by all the top
liberal publications in the world yeah and uh so so i said okay rogan built
this thing day after day
week after week for years he just stayed on it and doing it and we can do that
too we can bring that
kind of work ethic into our world steve kirsch had told me you ought to get on
spotify and we went we
took it on seriously we published thousands of essays now almost every day it's
you know you mean
sub stack you sub stack what did i say sub stack i apologize yeah i apologize
um and and so we just
work at it again and again and again trying to put out content and we're we're
shadow banned and small
roomed on x in a serious way uh you know we got 1.3 million subscribers of
which uh you know all the time i get
back i never see your stuff uh well it's algorithmic whatever it is you know
when you can ask rock
about robert malone and you know you get back um uh you know i'm i'm a
controversial figure uh but
you know not whining uh and so we have we have a lot of subscribers but we just
have this core paid
subscribers and they send in their five bucks a month and uh it's all we need
and it totally sets
us free we we can talk about whatever we want and yeah now that i'm pseudo
government employee i'm a
special government employee without pay boy that's like the worst of both
worlds um because because
there's i have that the truth is um i have guardrails that that constrain me in
a way that i didn't used
to be constrained uh for talking about some things you know i i have to uh live
in this world i interface
with uh the secretary and and with the deputy chief of staff and other people
and now i'm working with
the state department more uh and um so you know i have to i have to be more
mindful what is your
function like what what do you do over there at state or yeah both when you're
working for the
government like how do they use your services so um the special government
employee category is a
designation from the executive branch it's the one that elon had i like to say
i'm in the same
category as elon was only without all the money um uh so uh he was a sg without
pay i'm an sg without
pay and uh because i serve on the advisory committee on immunization practices
of the cdc
which is this uh they call it it's a faca committee federal advisory committee
act
that advises the director of the cdc that's its only job on vaccine policy okay
um so i'm the vice chair
which is largely honorary what that means is that if the chair isn't there i
draw the short straw and
i have to chair those bloody meetings like the last one for hepatitis b birth
dose which was uh just a
slugfest ugly the worst meeting i've ever had to adjudicate my entire life um
but for the most part
i sit on these subcommittees i sit on the coveted working group subcommittee um
i'm not supposed to
talk about the next meeting i was told uh um uh two days ago uh so uh that's
one of my my guardrails
uh but uh stay tuned uh for what is going to come down if the aap lawsuit doesn't
prevail and we're
allowed to actually have the meeting uh but so that's that i'm also the chair
of the influenza working
group uh stay tuned for that uh and now i am so and i from time to time the
secretary asked me to
help him sort out some issue you know i'll get a phone call i once got a phone
call on um on the big
island uh i did this recent series of rallies to try to um what you know to
recap the whole reason why
that we did that first hit was to try to publicize the stop the mandates rally
in dc that was the that
was the subtext for that as you recall and i forgot to even mention it we had
to go back in to to do
another shoot for that remember i'm still fighting that same battle of trying
to stop these mandated
vaccines so i'm sitting there in hawaii i'm going to another one of these
rallies i get a call out of
the blue from one of bobby's people and they want some advice about a topic
having to do with the
decision he has to make about spending money on another uh bio defense
initiative um so i get that
kind of stuff uh he called me soon after he was confirmed to get my opinion
about what was going
on in the chicken industry and all the slaughter that was happening for bird
flu and i told him
this doesn't make sense it's not good policy there's no way you can get rid of
bird flu doing this
it's in the wild bird populations and this is just nonsensical what they're
doing why do you think
they did that okay so that's that's interesting that now we drive into a kind
of public health and
vaccine vaccinology uh you're asking the why yeah and it's been a long-standing
policy killed millions
of chickens right they do it every time every time there's a bird flu yeah it's
it's in in any other
outbreak so right now in spain i just wrote an essay about this it was the
maybe the biggest reveal on
what's going on in spain right now there's a spanish research lab that's been
collaborating with the usda
that is investigating swine fever virus and they're actually doing gain of
function research on swine
fever virus swine fever virus african swine fever virus kills pigs like crazy
um and already china has
locked down and will not accept spanish pork and it is a lab leak you know and
there was a bunch of dead
hogs last november around this facility and now it's the the spanish and the
european union are
are you know blowing a circuit over this um because uh um it's really
compromised the spanish pork
industry so so this kind of stuff when when this happens the the reaction is we
just have to kill
all of them we have to kill all the potential carriers and this has been the
wisdom quote uh of in in
this kind of uh um agrarian animal husbandry world for a long time in the
context in particular of factory
farming so the logic is that if you were to vaccinate these birds with a leaky
vaccine which you know
covet was a leaky vaccine influenza is leaky vaccine if you give the birds a leaky
vaccine what you'll
get out of that variance is precisely vaccine resistant flu okay and so we we
have no choice
has been the logic but to exterminate you know like the ostriches in canada
remember that story that was
shocking okay there was no logic behind that it's it's gone it's become entrenched
as policy as kind
of this reflexive knee-jerk thing that if we have an outbreak what we do is we
kill because we can't
control the virus and the things that we could do to control the virus aren't
really going to control
it and it's actually going to make things worse is there any logic to that uh
we we can argue with
the margins we can argue with the margins but when you got something that if
you had something that
didn't have a natural reservoir uh then then you can make the case that that
you could eliminate it in
that geographic population and keep it from spreading outside but when you have
a natural reservoir like
explain that uh explain the natural reservoir okay in the case of avian
influenza um
waterfowl and migratory birds uh are amazing uh vectors for carrying and propagating
influenza and
influenza survives in water for a very long period of time and so you've got
ducks and geese traveling
north to south all over um every continent that are susceptible to infection by
avian influenza and
all the other migratory birds but in particular the waterfowl uh galliforms my
wife would uh um
wrap me on the head if i didn't use the right term uh so she's an avian
specialist so uh so these these
birds uh carry the flu and a number of them are relatively resistant they've
been subjected to avian
influenza for centuries or millennia and uh sometimes you'll get a variant come
out that'll wipe out a
whole bunch of birds uh west nile virus and crows is a great example and now
you have crow populations
coming back that are resistant to west nile we haven't gotten rid of west nile
we've just bred more
resistant birds that's kind of you know that's brett weinstein space right that's
evolution it's magical
and so you if you have a natural animal reservoir uh like the ticks and lime
and uh
and deer what are you going to do exterminate all the deer uh no that's not
practical
bow tried to exterminate the birds because of the thesis that they were eating
up all the spare
grain and compromising availability of food to the populace right and what
happened major ecological
catastrophe you can't eliminate the birds you can't go and kill all the waterfowl
that would just be
ecologically insane but you know sometimes we do insane things and in the case
of avian influenza
it's there it's endemic it's in all that migratory waterfowl they poop an
amazing amount of influenza
it gets in the water supply the water supply goes everywhere um they you know
small birds are
interacting with i don't know if you ever been around a chicken barn uh or
turkey barns okay yeah this
there's chickens and then there's commercial chicken production right um so so
these operations are
like petri dishes for bad stuff happening and the only way you can interfere
with that and by the way
the amish are starting to do it is put something in the water supply
and what the amish are using is is a compound called hypochlorous acid
and it's it's stopping these things and it's stopping the e.coli and a lot of
other stuff but the u.s
that's another problem is is you know when you have these the momentum of these
large government agencies
with their consensus about the way things are done uh you know there's a saying
that uh the only time
the fda ever changes is if somebody in a key position retires or passes away
they they kind of get
entrenched in this is how we do things we we kill chickens if we have avian
influenza come out we kill
chicken barns that and this is the the beauty of secretary kennedy coming in
being uh kind of not
invested in the way things are and the way we do things and being willing to
ask the questions but
does this really make sense um and uh that has been heresy it's obviously is
still heresy to do that
to ask those questions to to you know have the president say we need to restructure
the vaccine
schedule oh my god the sky is falling kids are going to die left and right
there's going to be death on
the street because we ended the thimerosal in multi-dose influenza vials um
this this kind of
catastrophic thinking but kennedy has and the president have the courage to
question these
narratives these long-held standing beliefs in the case of the bird flu you
know he he called me up i
said bobby i don't think this makes sense i think that what we really need to
do is we need to breed
resistant chickens and the way we breed resistant chickens and by the way we've
we've written about
this also in our sub stack there are in in the domain of uh chicken cultivars
and this you you have chickens
you know there are people that are just freaks about chickens yeah uh and and
all of these very but
because of that we have this huge repository of different cultivars of chickens
uh you know we could
say they were all generated through gain of function research the old school
way uh and um and a number of
those are relatively resistant to bird flu well in a logical world you would
have tysons and you know
maybe the government has to incentivize this it shouldn't have to you would
have tysons in there
saying well guys what we need is a bird flu resistant chicken let's get on it
okay um and that is
because essentially the position that the secretary took is is this policy of
just extremely aggressive
mass culling is not producing the outcome that we want it has never produced
the outcome that we want
it will never eliminate bird flu because it has an endemic reservoir and we've
got to think different
and and now that's starting to percolate through the system and there is more
research into alternative
strategies including the possibility of various uh prophylactic interventions
in in feed and in water
that's you know in a lot of these chicken houses mist as you recall they have
the misters because they
got to control the temperatures so they are set up with misters and that can
also be a way to deliver
for things that are non-toxic like hocl that can um knock out these viruses and
uh and uh e coli and
other things that cause uh reduced growth and and loss of of weight uh in
chickens which is the metric
that tyson's and those guys is food conversion that's the metric they all pray
to uh you know there's
different we can we can think differently and we have been locked into um you
know consensus that has
emerged over decades uh based on old ways of thinking and the same people are
in charge so they don't want
to change and and they kind of all often kind of have these lineages where they're
passing power
on to the people that they've mentored um so that's that's my hhs world and
then the state department
world is a new thing that's come in i have a uh i'm i'm starting to support the
uh group uh under
secretary rubio that's responsible for uh the various treaties having to do
with uh arms containment
and in particular the bioweapons convention so this morning i got up early uh
and you know there
was so i'm honest to god i don't want to pump you up too much i mean you might
get an ego or something
but so i say to the state they say robert we want you to go to geneva to give
this talk on the use of
ai for monitoring uh bioweapons threats because we have no way of monitoring
compliance with the
bioweapons convention right now and it's been a historic problem and we and the
president has said
that we're gonna we think that we can apply artificial intelligence to this
problem set
of of monitoring and verifying compliance with the bioweapons convention which
is heresy it's another
one of these thinking outside of the box things uh so they say we want you to
go to geneva and give
this talk and and be the key keynote and i say and what's the date oh it's february
12th um and i say
i don't talk about this because you know it's the general thing you don't tell
people that you're
going to be on rogan um you let rogan say that when rogan's ready uh and so i
said but that i'm
scheduled for rogan that day um and they're like oh rogan well okay absolutely
you got to go on that
one that's way more important than than going and speaking at the u.n so you're
the state department
thinks you're more important than me talking about bioweapons and they let me
uh webex it
so so that's what happened this morning and and uh it is a so i'm i'm
supporting that group
uh um uh now and maybe increasingly over time and i don't know where that goes
so you were talking about um these pigs that it's a lab leak that's giving
these yeah in spain
and what is it another gain of function laboratory where they're so this is
this is truly a breaking
news thing uh our media is not covering it uh and shocker yeah um it it is
being covered in europe
it and particularly in spain this this is a major economic threat because they're
i think the number
two pork producer in the world um and you know in the hogs that are feeding on
acorns etc that's that's a
big specialty market space yeah uh so last november uh this this laboratory
that is ostensibly working
this is i mean it's wuhan 2.0 only the good news is that this is not uh swine
flu people get that
confused i'm not talking about swine flu this is african swine fever it's been
around for millennia
it's never crossed into humans it's a very different virus so just make sure we
got that clear okay um
so this highly lethal african swine fever virus uh is is a threat to the global
pork industry
and uh so this laboratory in spain is cooperating with the usda to try to
develop a new vaccine for
african swine fever and in doing so that the our government once again was
unaware that this even
existed there's a cooperative agreement between usda and this laboratory to
engage in if you read they
don't call it gain of function research they call it building recombinant
viruses uh and experimenting
in uh different uh virus structures uh to allow them to better build a better
vaccine exactly the same
logic that was used in wuhan okay now then last november so this is ongoing in
this little laboratory and what
what this relates to joe is the idea that is being promoted that uh for justice
and equity and sharing
we need to enable there being uh distribution of highly infectious pathogens
all over the world in
separate laboratories so that um we're we in the big bad west are not imposing
and enabling our industries to prey on
name your uh emerging economy uh by taking biologic resources from them in
other words new viruses and
using them to build stuff we have to cooperate and they have to have access to
these regions so
so the logic right now that's in play and being promoted by the who is that we
should have
uh high pathogen repositories and research programs all over the world
decentralized in these emerging
economy states in you know spain is is uh not germany uh but so so there's a spanish
lab
that's who is cooperating with them they're going to build a african swine
fever virus vaccine they're
doing gain of function research and then and by the way just like in wuhan
there's some construction
going on uh related to that and then uh suddenly and it's an area that is very
dense in wild hogs
now somehow we got to get this through our brain okay you don't put the
facility in a place that's
proximal to the thing that might get infected if you have a lab leak i mean
that's that ought to be
like rule number one stamped on everybody's brain you don't do it like the
rocky mountain labs make a
lot of sense if you're going to be working with nasty stuff and you got to do
it put it somewhere
obscure not in boston right um so they're doing it they're surrounded by dense
wild hog population
and suddenly last november people detect there is wild hogs dead all over
around this facility
what could possibly have happened so they start investigating the people police
have been in
grab the records grab the digital information etc because the entire spanish
pork industry is now compromised their major client china has already pulled
their trade barriers no
more spanish pork going into china i advocate that president trump ought to
drop the curtain right now
because when i looked at the distribution of wild hogs i mean you've traveled
enough you know uh how
important uh wild feral hogs are in the economy in uh italy the wild hogs are
all over in europe
and this place in catalonia is right near the french border i don't and then
like right on the other
side a couple hundred miles is italy and and the band of of high density wild
hogs spreads like that up
through the mountains and then down into italy and and i think that uh if if i
was sitting in the white
house right now i think uh to protect you know both for the president core
constituency is ag voted for him
you know three times and he's that he holds that near and dear and i think that
uh it's good politics
and it's good public health it's good health uh agricultural decision to raise
the barriers now
um until we can see that europe has resolved the risk associated with this how
are they going to resolve
that so once again what's it's wild hogs this is not like it's anything that's
contained i i and and to
your point i don't know the answer i mean that right now what they're doing is
they're using drones
uh to try to find you know how hard it is to hunt wild hog yeah they hunt them
out of helicopters here
in texas yeah and and and still can't even get them
and the hogs are winning it's like the emu wars in australia right my friend
monty franklin is from
australia actually has a joke about that that we we fought a war with the emos
and we lost it's
true we have emus on our farm and and they're weird animals man it's like
living with dinosaurs
uh but they're dumb as shit too they are they're weird they my wife says they
don't have two brain
cells to rub together i talked to a lady who's a falconer and she said the dumbest
birds by far
emus second dumbest are owls she said oh really i didn't know the owls that's
crazy yeah i didn't
know that i thought they were so smart give a hoot don't pollute they're always
wearing a monocle
you know they're always the wise professor well that right it goes back to it
goes back to athens
the symbol of uh learning has been the owl very weird very weird yeah so emus
are weird but uh so
i don't know what they're going to do what they did to control in europe so uh
the former assistant
director general of the who who i knew this was her claim to fame was she had
led the development of
rabies baits and they would bait uh um with a uh rabies vaccine to try to
control the incidence of
rabies in particularly foxes was the problem throughout europe and a lot of the
foxes were um crossing from the uh
less developed part of the european union into france which was not acceptable
uh she was french and so
uh what they did is they developed these baits with a vaccine uh and uh they
would distribute them out
of helicopters and there's a whole science about how dense the baits have to be
to get uh immunity against
rabies in in um fox populations the whole science around it but that they they
was successful um they
controlled uh fox and wolf population rabies in europe largely eradicated it
through the use of
baits distributed by helicopters do they have a vaccine for this don't that's
what they were
supposed to be developing that was the whole purpose they were supposed to be
developing but
really what they were developing is a more transmissible strain whatever yeah
in order to prove that they
could i don't know you know it's the it's the same story it's muhan 2.0 exactly
and how how are we not
going to see this as an increasing trend and and there's the whole dark side
that you know when i
you know if you i read my comments uh maybe i shouldn't sometimes but i do don't
do it after
this show yeah um uh so so you know you get the blowback uh well this is all by
intention because
they're building market for whatever it is that they want to market right that's
the there's one of the
dark themes about covid was that uh they wanted to promote the spread of covid
in order to sell the
vaccines and blah blah blah you know so that's the the narrative and so in this
case well they want to
spread african swine fever because somehow they're going to profit from that
while destroying their
pork industry you know but this is this is the armchair uh strategists on the
internet uh but that
has it gotten into the domestic pork market interesting question not to my
knowledge yet but i have this
interesting colleague that i work with closely at the acip named retzoff levy
who's the chair of the
covid working group and has giving the pharmaceutical industry a run for their
money right now and it's
of course being vilified by the press etc and retzoff is a full professor at
mit and his core competence
is risk analysis and mitigation and he's he he reads my sub stack uh because we're
friends uh he doesn't
subscribe i'm pretty sure but he reads it um and uh um so he he we're talking
and he says yeah i read
that thing that you put out about that virus and he said i wrote a proposal
years ago about risk
mitigation and the need to do something about that because of it the ease by
which it can enter
the domestic pork population so i infer from that that there is a whole body of
science and logic
about and he said it's it's it's very readily transmitted into commercial pork
which is why the
chinese have already dropped you know dropped the curtain and said no we're not
going to allow any of that
into our into china uh because of the risk i mean what we're talking about so i
i wrote an essay about um
uh uh low risk high impact events which is what we're talking about another
example of a low risk
high impact event uh is gene drive technology that gates is promoting to
exterminate the mosquitoes for
example you know gene drive technology can be used to exterminate a species
particularly ones that have
a high reproductive rate and uh you know it's another one that is a crisper
application uh but there's a
whole school of thought that gene drive tech should never be let out of the box
into the environment
because in and that what's you know there are those that are actively promoting
its use uh and uh to
eliminate bad stuff and uh you know we're all for eliminating bad stuff uh um
uh you know organisms
insects worms flies stuff uh and yet it in and we can do experiments where we
say oh we'll cultivate this
kind of fly together with that kind of fly and only these flies are going to
have gene drive and we're
going to look for whether or not it gets over to these flies and if it doesn't
then we can conclude that
it's unlikely but as brett would tell you um we're dealing with ecosystems here
really complex ecosystems
and the the risk environment now that i think grown-ups have to acknowledge
coming out of covet you know the big lessons we can we can we can talk about
these
egregious things that we've all experienced that have been put on us but the
big picture is
this thing came out and i'm convinced it was engineered i'm i i believe the
most likely
hypothesis is not that it was intentionally released i still think that's a
possibility
but that it was an unintentional uh release an infection of of a lab worker or
something like
that that let it get out because that's what happens again and again in these
facilities uh
the the the these low probability events can have extremely high impacts and as
we've seen global
impacts and we have to rethink how we're managing risk which is as i mentioned
retzif's kind of core
competence and and that logic runs up against this belief that well it hasn't
happened so far and i'm
an expert and i have the right to play around in this in this sandbox that i've
helped develop i know more
than you do how can you tell me that i shouldn't be doing that you don't have
the right to tell me
i'm the expert in this space and uh to come into that environment and say look
guys you're playing
around with stuff that could have a very high impact even though it hasn't
happened yet
and you got to to rethink uh what is acceptable and and i think that that you
know we were talking a
moment about the state department and uh um uh weapon control we're now in an
environment where the speed
of of of um growth of the power of biotechnology is accelerating it's going
exponential just like what
we saw with semiconductors and uh our bioethics our regulatory structures our
our way of thinking about
those risks is completely unable unable to keep up with the pace of the advance
and that is creating uh a whole new threat scene not to scare people i mean i i
as i was thinking about
coming on here i was saying to myself okay robert just take a deep breath it's
only joe rogan he's a
human and uh you want to stay positive and i don't want to go dark and just
scare people but we've got to
take um we got to recognize that uh this is a different world now we have all
of this digital tech
and and what it means and information control and and suppression and
manipulation psychologically
basically programming customized programming uh through avatars and all of this
power but we also have in
parallel this world of rapidly advancing biotechnology that is you know for for
the likes of uval harari
and those that are imagining a future of transhumanism uh and all of that means
uh we're we are moving very
rapidly into a world uh that we can hardly even process one of the big thrust
vectors in silicon valley
right now relating to reproductive rights has to do with the development of
artificial wombs
you know these these wealthy um privileged people don't want to carry their own
babies
and i guess surrogates are too cumbersome or risky so they're really talking
about
it's not talking it's not talking they're there we're going to run an essay
about this soon they
already have a lamb that they have grown de novo in an artificial womb
we're we're we're there okay and and these people see it as freeing this this
is this is um more women's
rights uh you know we we don't need to uh have the organic process of carrying
a baby and that's a good
thing they believe you know completely disregarding that there is a whole lot
of subtle complex interactions
that occur between mother and fetus yes in the womb okay that gives rise to
right you're who knows
what kind of humans you're going to develop with no interaction with the mother
at all but the entire
nine months where they're developing but that exchange of hormones but for the
sake of convenience we want
we want to do that oh god okay and that what that what that you know zoom in on
that okay that has all kinds of implications
it has implications for organ transplantation my friend young yakelek i don't
know if you know yon if you've ever had him
on you might want to sometime interesting character he is the washington bureau
chief for this uh newspaper that is
is defamed all the time ridiculed epic times okay which i think is like the
only print newspaper left
in the united states it's worth reading that ascribes to classical journalism
but he's just come out with
a book about um organ harvesting in china and organ harvesting on demand
documenting that they are using live
prisoners and keeping them in compounds and testing them for their genetic
background and characteristics
and then harvesting them when necessary to provide organs for transplantation
largely to westerners
because it is enormously profitable and also to leaders in the ccp this is what
all this brouhaha
was about the open mic event with putin about uh we can use transplantation to
let us live
another hundred years that remember that little clip so that this in in a world
in which we can have
artificial wombs um we can grow our own clones to provide donor tissue to buy
provide an insurance
policy we are right at the doorstep of that okay again demonic it sounds
demonic i mean is a soul a real
thing just because it can't be quantified by science you can't measure it i
mean the concept
of the soul has always existed if that's a real thing who knows what you're
doing creating a human
being from an artificial womb who knows what kind of processes are happening we
we know that stress
on the mother imparts all sorts of unwanted characteristics in children we know
that we know like
all kinds of interactions yes the playing of music that's real yes okay yeah
this soothing playing
of music yeah so so that's happening that that vector is proceeding and once
you have that
in the in a world of crisper okay you can do genetic modification of a very
small number
of cells and then grow fetus from that okay so that opens the door to do you
remember did you
watch the movie gataga yeah gataga absolutely recommended if you want to
understand our brave
new world the one that's really coming at us and the ethical conundrums
associated with that watch
gataga and by the way it has great production value too doesn't it well great
movie great movie and
totally underappreciated and terrifying yeah that's really what our future is
and the title g-a-t-t-a-g-a
refers to a dna sequence by the way that's why the name gataga oh okay so so
watch the movie you've
you've already seen it yeah you get it okay we're moving to that space where we
have custom-built
humans now it's being you know what's driving that convenience who doesn't want
to have a child that's
better than that's like you but better stronger bigger you know smarter better
vision get rid of all the
problems that i've got right or you've got or whomever you know and and in your
in your next
offspring and all you got to do because here's another fun fact at bulk whole
genome sequencing
is now about 300 bucks whole genome sequencing is the is the portal for
selective engineering
with with with cas9 crisper systems so we're we now we're right on the
threshold of that entire spectrum
of capability of manipulating animals life fundamentals of life in every
species and humans
and concurrently we have the incoming vector of robotics technology and modern
computational advanced you
know we're moving rapidly i you know people say oh it's going to be next month
we're going to have general artificial intelligence well they keep saying that
month after month
what do we got here video made about the
yeah artificial wounds yeah oh boy i don't know who made this i was trying to
figure out who made
this i don't think the company oh this is so creepy yeah i'm not bsing i mean
doesn't this look
like it's something straight out of the matrix 100 this is all 3d oh my
obviously it's not real
but oh my god this is terrifying that this this is a business model like what
is what kind of psychology
does this child have with no exposure to its mother hey but for the nine months
for mom for mom it's a
lot more convenient and she can get the perfect baby that she wants what's not
to like here joe
yeah and you put it on ssr eyes well this is the thing about do you know the
story about ted kaczynski
one of the stories what one of the things that happened to him in the netflix
documentary they go
into this he was very sick when he was a boy when he was a baby and they kept
him in this nursery with
no contact with human beings for a long time for a long time no one picked him
up when he cried he just
sat in in this crib with no contact with his mother nothing yeah and he from
then on i mean
his brother always described him as just like off yeah just off yeah he never
had that early stage
neural development is amazing and profound by the way this loops back to the
vaccine story
when we're when we're doing all these jabs and these little tiny kids like
hepatitis b birth
those they are at a stage where this thing is just growing like crazy and so is
their liver and
everything else and you're injecting toxic chemicals into their body which you
which you really haven't
characterized well and you're stacking them yeah um and no one's done the
studies so this is doing it
for profit this is another thing that the secretary is adamant about and and
that the president has led
on well the the having them exempt from any legal ramifications of the adverse
side effects of
vaccines what they did during the reagan administration is really like it gave
them this
free license yeah free license crazy to just go crazy and jack up the vaccine
schedule as high
as they could justify and then along with it corresponding profits rise that's
what's
so if you want to go down that rabbit hole it's even worse um once functionally
because of how difficult
it is to prove an endpoint and get a vaccine licensed once you get it licensed
you basically have a cash cow
in perpetuity and if you get it down on the pediatric schedule in other words
you manage to jam it through
the acip because the acip but the wisdom of congress is vested with the
authority of authorizing the
vaccines for children program acquisitions so if the a there's no other program
in the entire u.s
united states government that is outside of congressional oversight the acip
can decide that this vaccine
needs to be purchased for the vaccines for children program and historically
because the acip has been
captured by pharma and by the cdc itself and by academia um it those decisions
they never go
backwards right and so you get the product down onto the vfc the vaccine for
children program
and the pediatric schedule and then that triggers the indemnification clause
that you're talking about
which by the way is different from the one that kicked in with the covid
situation with the prep act
that's that's even worse but what you end up with joe is a situation where as
the vaccine manufacturer
think it you now have no legal liability you have guaranteed purchasing
distribution and marketing
because the cdc does all the propaganda vaccines are safe and effective you
must take this
right and then then you end up with and it's in many cases it's school district
level it's not even state
level the states have the right to regulate the practice of medicine the
federal government doesn't
that means the cdc can advise that this is the vaccine schedule and many states
because they don't
have the infrastructure to actually process what's going on they say well if
the cdc advises it then we're
going to mandate it okay or school districts do and so you end up in this
situation where you as the manufacturer
get your product on the market you get it down into this special program you
got guaranteed purchase
guaranteed profit full indemnification marketing purchase distribution all paid
for by the taxpayer
and no liability it's it's perfect as a business model what's not to like it's
so scary how many
people just go along with it too oh they don't just go along with it they are
propagandized into
believing it as and promoting it as a theology they've administered to exactly
i was going to say it's
religious dogma they've administered it to their children they believe it wholeheartedly
and when
someone says something like vaccines don't cause autism the whole audience will
applaud and you're
like how do you know how do you know that well you're so confident that you're
applauding well
it's because what i've heard i've heard it so many times of course i believe
that that's what's
twisted it's just it's just well that it in and it illustrates the power of
what we're dealing with
yeah and once you get it by thinking through the vaccine story i mean you've
you've um you're you're
ruined now my friend because once once you get it about vaccines then you see
it everywhere well i
had suzanne humphries on who wrote uh that book dissolving illusions uh and you
know that that book
is a must read for anybody who wants to really understand the history of
vaccines and what really
happened in terms of the end of pandemics and the introduction of these
vaccines like what actually
took yes yes oh that that and you know there's the whole thread of of how
prevalent uh um lead was in
the population in in the powdered wigs and so many things that we had and then
when they got rid of
the lead that was concurrent with uh the onset of uh widespread vaccination and
so the loss of life
associated or the improvement in loss of life and birth outcomes associated
with getting the lead out of
the population well that's ascribed to the vaccines by the people that are busy
marketing vaccines and
likewise the all tt all the work associated with uh water sanitation and all of
that no that's all true
the first time i to credit what credits do as a vaccinologist the first time i
really encountered that logic
was candace owens had me on years ago and she said you know we've done this
deep dive and we've looked
at this thing and these these infectious diseases go down before the vaccines
come up um and yet we're
told this narrative right and of course we're told this narrative yeah the polio
one's the nuttier one
because when when people are so concerned about polio and polio vaccines and we've
cured polio we they're
going to bring back polio if they stop the vaccines when i tell them what
percentage of polio do you
think is asymptomatic and that most people think like none right it's 95 to 99
of polio is asymptomatic
and then you find out through suzanne humphrey's work that they were spraying ddt
ubiquitously all
over the country at the same time absolutely silence you the same exact
symptoms of paralytic polio
and then subsequently the actual first infections that started occurring in
this country were occurring
in rural areas where they spray ddt everywhere yeah so one of so there's uh if
i can kind of throw another
log on the fire on that narrative one of the cool things that i'm getting to
see from my perch at the
acip is people working at the cutting edge of modern genetic uh technology
investigations about cause and
effect and genomic effects and one of the things you talk about this rare
incidence of paralytic polio or
uh myocarditis okay myocarditis is rare uh with the vaccine and yet it happens
at a significant rate it
happens more in certain populations than other populations this was heresy at
first and now they
were forced to admit it and and uh stay tuned uh later in february but uh um
there's a group
that had a big grant to look at genetic links associated with risk factors for
this
and strangely halfway through their program during the biden administration all
their funding got caught
but they still made a lot of progress and they kind of limped along with
volunteer stuff
modern i mentioned the genome costs uh 300 bucks a genome these guys have gone
through and they've
identified seven genes that represent uh um high risk factors for myocarditis
after vaccination
myocarditis after vaccination by the way was a major side effect associated
with the smallpox vaccines
or one of them uh it's it's been associated with vaccines for quite a while we
just kind of
haven't heard about it and it's particularly bad with these but there we it it
one of the you know
trying to continue my theme of it's not all dark right uh one of the things
that's coming out is that if we
commit to it and do the research like uh team kennedy is committed to doing um
we may well be able to
detect those people that the character genetic characteristics of those people
that might have
been at higher risk for say paralytic polio or myocarditis so that we can have
genetic tests
and you can have that test and determine whether you actually have that risk
factor it looks like
because of the dynamics of clinical research and epidemiology in infectious
disease that um this
kind of application of genetic diagnostic technology may give us whole new
insights into those small
populations that that had those rare events um you know we know the big picture
in in COVID and the COVID
vaccination post vaccination uh syndromes of the high-risk individuals with
obesity and elderly and
basically people with a high inflammatory set point uh but now we're getting
down into some of the
nuances and i think that that's you know i talked about some of the dark sides
of biotechnology but
there's some real uh you know bright sides that um uh um offer hope uh and and
uh will what will
happen as that kind of starts to roll out is that um manufacturers and and
academic surrogates and
others are kind of not going to be able to continue to hide behind these
narratives that they have promoted
now for decades because uh the true true is going to come out it is going to
come out um is it going
to come out during this administration no to do long-term follow-up studies are
going to take
a decade that's that's the unfortunate truth and then we're going to have a lot
of grief around that
how come you haven't already fill in the blank right um but uh it's going to
happen and uh that is another
big plus of of what's going on right now uh kind of behind the scenes at hhs uh
hopefully they get a
chance to still do it uh after the midterm and they don't get hogtied but um i'm
i'm optimistic that
we're these narratives that have been promoted these false narratives we're
going to be able to break
them through doing actual science uh if we're allowed to do it uh and and uh
this new technology
uh is uh particularly with sequence analysis um and identification of of risk
correlates the
intersection between sequence analysis and epidemiology is going to really open
up uh new
understandings about what's going on in human disease i'm absolutely convinced
what we do about
it is that's a whole another kettle of fish this i mean we can do the science
until the cows come home
the public policy part is wicked hard yeah but at least there's some positive
developments
yeah that's that's that's what i want to say is some bright light at the end
there there is all this
dark stuff yeah uh and and we have to we have to allow ourselves to see it it's
you see it and you get
the reaction like you did uh i i don't want to see that that's too much it's
too overwhelming it's too
scary but we look away at our own risk and um and and we have this tendency to
say it's all dark uh you know that
that we have these uh individuals i mentioned you've all harari uh um you know
believing that man is god
now we no longer need god uh we have become gods we have become as god does he
actually say that yeah
really well but isn't he talking sort of metaphorically about our technological
potential
i i don't know i don't know i don't know how to i don't know how to discern the
meaning of a very
demonized guy he he says a lot of dark stuff and uh i think so um you you
probably read the book
book did you interview the author of of you know the sapiens did you read the
author of a dark aeon
no no i've never read that so that's so that's talking this is talking more
about
kind of the silicon valley culture that's pushing transhumanism and how how um
integrally it's become
uh involved in this space i mean what i i don't have i don't pal around with elon
and not to say he is or or whomever you want to talk about in that space
that's those i mean that's not my pay grade uh but my understanding and and i
read these things
maybe they're also maybe that's also propaganda that a lot of these people um
of let's say the bill
gates cast and the younger ones associated with that uh would are advocates for
a world in which they
are able to upload their um avatar consciousness in a digital space and live
forever that's ray
curzwell right that's i it sounds like you know more i mean you're the you're
the uh um uh uap
uh guy here which by the way is another fascinating domain that i'm learning
more about more about it's
bizarre um that's a rabbit hole you go down like oh this isn't empty this is
not an empty rabbit hole
there's a lot of money behind this and it seems like there's been a lot of
black funding and
business yeah there's a lot of business defense contractors involved yeah it
seems like
there's some inventions that sort of emerged out of nowhere that supposedly are
connected to back
engineering programs so for so i'm i'm now uh i'm now uh of of the belief that
there exists a capability
that transcends uh uh physics as we know it let's say einsteinian physics
uh and is more aligned with uh hawking's physics uh that um we can't we don't
comprehend right now
uh and it has to do with extremely high energy systems and uh i i having i mean
i've had some of these
guys because i'm now known worldwide as a nutcase i guess and and conspiracy
theorist i've had them on my farm
uh you know staying in our in our guest house and and um shooting the bull and
me trying to understand
their world and what they're seeing and what they've experienced and and
observed and the information
um and uh i'm i'm of there's a lot of different models for what the hell's
going on here and maybe
maybe it's all us right that's one model it's all us uh with with uh secret
technology yeah um that's
one model for the what do they call it tic tacs and uh i'm i'm increasingly
convinced by the logic
that there is a physics beyond the physics that we know that is the physics of
extremely high energy
systems and in high energy systems a lot of the rules about motion and uh and
uh transportation and
matter uh and the ability to cross between matter states that is repeatedly
observed uh and reported by
responsible people uh military folks that have you know strong disincentives
right for saying this
stuff and yet still they're saying that's what i saw okay and trans medium
devices that can fly
and then go underwater as fast as they're flying and and no ripples yeah um so
i i one of the models of
that is that this has to do with uh having some extremely high energy source uh
in a very small package
and uh is that possible we're now moving into a new fusion world right we're
talking about these
micro fusion reactors that are going to be powering our data centers all over
the world transforming the
whole energy right i mean there's this logic in crossing over into the the
economics bitcoin or kind of
space uh there's this logic that it all comes down to energy uh energy is is
the one uh thing that uh
fuels economic development and and everything around us and uh that i'm i'm not
a physicist but i listen and
learn and and it sounds to me like these uh micro reactors and the the
technology that was involved
strangely in this assassination remember that bizarre assassination in in boston
that happened um there
was two competing companies okay um there's something yeah there's something
going on there that's uh
really transformational and if it matures remember trump is invested in this in
a big way uh that had to do
with uh um him kind of leveraging truth social in a strange way remember uh he
if if we if we emerge
into a future within my lifetime probably of these micro nukes uh as energy
sources decentralized
first driven by the tech bros because they want to have their data centers but
then suddenly we have as
that matures and the patents come off we have the ability to put uh power
generation in very small
packages wherever we want in the world suddenly the entire landscape of
economic activity and the future
of humanity is transformed like that and that's just the beginning if we push
that technology we may find
ourselves in some space where we have the ability to produce extremely large
amounts of energy in a very
very small package and and use that you know of course it'll be weaponized use
that for a variety of
things uh but um i i think the guys that are speculating about these phenomena
being driven by
the existence of of almost point sources of unlimited energy functionally uh
may make sense out of things
that otherwise are really hard to wrap your head around well we're in for a
very interesting future
one way or another yes yeah and it and it doesn't have to be dark and demonic
hopefully not if we let
these bastards have their way what is this jamie make a small correction that
video i showed you
apparently isn't real not a real company made by a berlin filmmaker in 2022
went viral i found it in
a new york post article that kind of said it was real um uh but but there are
plans well i was gonna
say which is a little weirder it says at the bottom this is getting confused
with a pregnancy robot that
was announced in china in 2025 this though apparently also is not real also uh
the pregnancy robot is not
real yeah it was a they named a scientist that was working on it not a real it's
not a real person
look at that that's so yeah but but the company work nonetheless nonetheless
nonetheless they are
working on it yes that will are i i i we're going to come out so so see if you
can find the since
you're so good at googling or whatever you're doing um see if you can find the
uh images of uh this uh
artificial womb and i believe it's a lamb you know we've seen the lamb before
but i'm just saying that
the the people thing the factory thing yeah it wasn't just oh well that was
obviously a i mean
that was it was transparent it wasn't even a real company that was doing it it
was synthetic images
i don't want to give out fake news yeah good well okay god forbid all right we
might get banned
well robert thank you so much for being here i really appreciate it and uh it
was nice for you to
come back and under less hostile terms in the world it wasn't hostile then yeah
it was the world
i think the i think your message was a lot more hostile and it's the way it was
received
you know like you were received in a hostile way i don't think this one's going
to be hostile i
think uh pretty much everything that you said most people are aware of now and
then the other things
that you're saying they're not far-fetched at all and i think there's a lot
more people that are
more open to receiving information like that now than ever before and some of
it can be attributed to
you uh that's kind um uh let's say to the community yeah uh and of which i am a
vehicle have been at
times a lot of the stuff that i shared with you back then was the consequence
of a community that i was
embedded in of others physicians and scientists many of whom were primary care
practitioners
and i was i was attending weekly meetings with these people and i had frontline
knowledge of what they
were seeing and experiencing and i had frontline knowledge of the physicians
that i was collaborating
with uh at titra of what they were experiencing i was never managing covid
patients except myself
but i knew what others were experiencing and you gave me an opportunity to get
to share their voice
through me and i thank you for that it was it was a moment in time and i think
we did good
uh but by god they came at us it was wild well thank you sir thank you very
much i really
really appreciate you being here it was a lot of fun all right bye