#2441 - Paul Rosolie

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Paul Rosolie

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Paul Rosolie is a conservationist, filmmaker, and writer. He's the founder of Junglekeepers, an organization protecting threatened habitat in western Amazonia, and the author of "Mother of God: An Extraordinary Journey into the Uncharted Tributaries of the Western Amazon." www.paulrosolie.com

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Timestamps

0:00Uncontacted tribe encounter and escalating threats to the Amazon (loggers, miners, deforestation, COP road)
9:57Amazon rainforest tipping point, conservation incentives, and debate over “man-made” Amazon
19:53LIDAR, ancient Amazon settlements, and modern destruction: mining, fires, and indigenous land rights

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0:00

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

0:03

The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:05

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

0:09

Hello, Jungle Man.

0:13

What's happening?

0:13

Good to see you, my brother.

0:14

What's going on?

0:15

You got books?

0:16

You got notes?

0:16

I got books.

0:17

Marshall's here with us.

0:18

I got this for you.

0:19

Yeah, a little note in there you can read later.

0:22

Jungle Keeper, buddy.

0:23

Yeah, the brand new.

0:24

That's what, back from the Amazon with that.

0:26

Nice.

0:27

Marshall, say hi to everybody.

0:29

I love that you bring Marshall.

0:30

Has Marshall come on other podcasts or is it just...

0:32

Yes, he's been on a couple.

0:33

You're a good boy.

0:34

You're a good boy.

0:35

We should...

0:36

I just have to keep him from going under the water with a little buddy.

0:39

Yeah.

0:40

I got to keep him from getting under the water.

0:43

Come on.

0:43

Come on.

0:44

Say hi to everybody.

0:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:46

He's the best.

0:48

He is the best.

0:49

He's a big sweetie.

0:51

He's soft, man.

0:52

He's got amazing coat.

0:54

Big sweetie.

0:54

Well, he gets groomed.

0:55

Oh, thank you.

0:56

Thank you for the kisses.

0:57

Okay.

0:58

Okay, lie down, please.

1:00

Lie down.

1:01

Lie down, please.

1:03

So...

1:04

Oh, my God.

1:05

You released that video.

1:07

I saw the video of the uncontacted tribe.

1:10

Yeah, hitting send on that was scary.

1:12

Woo!

1:12

Yeah.

1:13

Wild.

1:14

I sent you a message that day.

1:16

Yeah.

1:16

When that happened.

1:17

Yeah, you did.

1:18

That is crazy.

1:19

I've shown it to a few people, but we never showed it live.

1:21

But it is...

1:22

So, Marsha, you got to lie down, buddy.

1:24

You can't be climbing under the wires.

1:27

Lie down, Bubba.

1:28

Sit, sit, sit.

1:28

Come here.

1:28

Go, boy.

1:29

Go, boy.

1:29

Go, boy.

1:30

Go, boy.

1:30

That experience has to be so insane to contact, like, legitimately uncontacted

1:36

people.

1:37

There they are.

1:37

Yeah.

1:38

Yeah.

1:39

Ladies and gentlemen, do not look at their dongs.

1:40

Do not.

1:41

Well, I mean, you know, but also maybe take a style tip from them and tie them

1:45

up.

1:45

Weird how they got their waist wrapped up, but they don't have their dongs

1:50

wrapped up or their

1:51

butthole.

1:52

Well, it seems like they're trying to protect or they're trying to keep lots of

1:57

rope.

1:57

I think rope is, like, their main thing.

2:00

So, that's how they carry all their rope.

2:01

Interesting.

2:02

They carry their rope around their waist.

2:05

They carry their rope around their waist and they just want rope.

2:07

They want rope and bananas.

2:10

Do bananas grow in the Amazon?

2:12

So, bananas don't grow unless people plant them.

2:15

So, there's certain human settlements where, you know, you can find old bananas

2:19

growing.

2:19

But, you know, plantains, really, is what this is.

2:22

And they were requesting them.

2:23

And what you see happening here is—

2:25

They request them?

2:25

Yes.

2:26

They come out.

2:27

And, I mean, these are people coming out a thousand years late to society.

2:30

And they're out on the beach holding up their hands saying,

2:32

No mole.

2:32

We are the brothers.

2:34

No mole means brothers.

2:35

Oh.

2:35

And so, now we actually think that they call themselves the brothers.

2:38

Whoa.

2:39

And their first thing was, we want bananas.

2:42

And so, the local anthropologists that we were with,

2:46

we were just there to work with the communities that we work with.

2:49

And these guys came out across the beach.

2:52

And you see them, they're holding their bows.

2:55

And those bows are six-foot bows, seven-foot arrows.

2:57

And we were saying, you know, the anthropologist was saying,

3:00

Put down your weapons.

3:01

Put down your bows.

3:02

Before you talk to us, this does not need to be violent.

3:06

Because their first instinct is to defend themselves.

3:08

And so, there's maybe 20, 30 of us.

3:11

And the local guys had a couple of shotguns just in case for protection.

3:15

Because we were not initiating contact.

3:17

That's the thing I've been explaining to everybody.

3:19

We were just there working in the community.

3:21

They came out to us.

3:23

So, they knew you were there.

3:24

And they came out to you.

3:26

And how, does someone speak their language?

3:28

There's one guy in the community that kind of speaks a little bit.

3:32

They speak, in the community, they speak yine.

3:34

The mashkopiros speak a derivation of that.

3:36

And so, he's, they're speaking in broken terms across the river.

3:42

So, they were sort of shirts versus skins.

3:44

We were on this side of the river.

3:45

They were on that side of the river.

3:46

And then, I mean, the courage of this guy to get in the river and go, you know,

3:52

10 feet from them and push the canoe.

3:55

There was no contact, no physical contact made.

3:58

But he gave them these plantains.

4:00

And then, you notice when they take them, it's not like, oh, yeah, let's take

4:03

the plantains.

4:04

We'll go back in the jungle and divvy them up.

4:05

It's like, what I get, I get.

4:06

They're fighting over them.

4:08

And they were all screaming and fighting over them.

4:09

So, there's desperation there.

4:11

Yeah, well, I mean, I guess food is fucking hard to come by, right?

4:16

I mean, the jungle is filled with life.

4:18

But it's still, it's got to be difficult to source.

4:22

And you've got to do it every single day.

4:23

Every single day.

4:24

Yeah, I mean, there's no refrigeration.

4:26

There's no preservation.

4:28

No, so everything is instantaneous.

4:29

You shoot a monkey, you've got to cook it and eat it.

4:31

You know, you get a turtle, you've got to eat it.

4:33

You've got to open it and eat it.

4:34

And so, there's, I mean, you can see there's more, there's that questioning

4:39

look on their face.

4:40

They don't understand who really, who we are.

4:43

And really, the only communications that we got was, we need more food and stop

4:49

cutting down our trees.

4:51

They wanted to, they said, who are the bad ones?

4:55

They said, of you, who are the bad ones?

4:56

Why are you cutting down our biggest trees?

5:00

Well, not just cutting down the trees, but also killing the indigenous people

5:03

that protest it, that get in the way of it.

5:06

If their tribe is centrally located in an area where they're chopping down the

5:09

trees, they kill those people.

5:11

Yeah.

5:11

Yeah.

5:12

And so, right now, what we have is we have the loggers and the gold miners

5:15

coming in.

5:15

And so, since like the last time I saw you, it was, we were nailing all these

5:19

successes, adding acres to the reserve.

5:21

Because what we're doing is trying to create this corridor, which is going to

5:25

become a national park.

5:26

We're trying to save this one river in the headwaters of the Amazon.

5:29

And we had been on this success run, you know, from people hearing the stories,

5:34

from things like this, people coming in and helping us do that.

5:40

And then it started to change where we realized, okay, we're protecting so much

5:44

land that the logging mafias and the narco traffickers started pushing back.

5:49

And so, now it's getting more serious.

5:51

As we're getting closer to the finish line, it's getting harder because they're

5:54

going, we want this to remain wild.

5:56

And we're going, we're trying to protect this.

5:59

And the local communities are going, this is our forest.

6:01

And the loggers and the narcos and the miners are coming from other places and

6:04

they're cutting down this forest.

6:06

And so, it's just, you know, I mean, everyone knows the Amazon is the lungs of

6:10

the earth.

6:11

Everyone knows it's got a, it produces a fifth of our oxygen on our planet.

6:16

It contains a fifth of the oxygen of the fresh water on our planet.

6:19

So, it's vital to global planetary stability.

6:23

But we've already destroyed 20% of it.

6:26

And so, we're seeing the moisture cycle get broken.

6:28

20%?

6:29

20% of the whole Amazon rainforest.

6:31

That's insane.

6:32

And that thing is 2.7 million square miles.

6:36

And I think the lower 48 is 3 point something million square miles.

6:40

Wow.

6:41

It's gigantic.

6:42

Wow.

6:44

And they've already killed off 20% of it.

6:47

20% of it's already gone.

6:48

Is it mostly cattle running?

6:50

Like, what is, what are they, what are they doing it for?

6:53

Cattle ranching accounts for 60% of Amazon deforestation.

6:57

And then it's just development, roads.

6:59

China has a new shipping port in Peru that they want to, you know, create a, I

7:04

think, a railroad over the Andes Mountains or through the Andes Mountains.

7:08

So, they can start getting access to the Amazon for Asian markets.

7:12

Is it true they carved out a giant pathway through the Amazon for a climate

7:16

change conference?

7:17

You know, I've been trying to figure out if that's true.

7:20

I saw that go all over the internet.

7:21

But it's one of those things, it's like, who knows if that's real.

7:24

That, and then the other one is they're like, you know, Swedish billionaire

7:27

bought this much of the Amazon, and it's like, but what's his name?

7:30

Right.

7:31

They keep saying that, and I'm like, I don't.

7:32

Well, let's put it into perplexity and find out if that's true.

7:34

Which one?

7:36

The, uh, whether or not they carved out a pathway through the Amazon for a

7:40

climate change summit.

7:42

Because that sounds like horse shit.

7:44

That just sounds too, too ridiculous.

7:46

There's no way they would do something that stupid.

7:48

I don't know, but I did see people.

7:49

Also, why would they have a climate change summit in the Amazon?

7:52

Are you going to do it in a tent?

7:53

No, I think they did it in Manaus.

7:55

I mean, there are cities in the Amazon.

7:56

There's Iquitos, there's Manaus.

7:57

Right, sure.

7:58

But you can fly into those cities.

7:59

You don't need to carve out a fucking pathway.

8:01

But I remember seeing a video of this guy, and he was saying, like, this is

8:05

where the jungle used to be, and now it's just this big road.

8:08

And I was like, but again, who in charge of the climate?

8:10

Unless they were going to have a climate conference, and just local

8:14

administrators and politicians said, well, we better get ready and clear this

8:18

area.

8:18

And, like, maybe it wasn't intentional.

8:20

I don't know.

8:21

I mean, if they have pictures of it.

8:23

Whoa, it's on the BBC.

8:25

Amazon forest fell to build road for climate summit.

8:28

There you go.

8:29

Oh, my God, it's real.

8:31

Oh, my God.

8:35

A new four-lane highway cutting through tens of thousands of acres of protected

8:40

Amazon rainforest is being built for the COP30 climate summit in the Brazilian

8:45

city of Belem.

8:46

Oh, my God.

8:47

I wish it wasn't Manaus.

8:48

That is so crazy.

8:50

It aims to ease traffic to the city, which will help climate.

8:54

It's easier to drive when there's no trees.

8:55

Which owes more than 50,000 people, including world leaders, at the conference

8:59

in November.

8:59

The state government touts the highway sustainable.

9:03

I love how they use that term.

9:05

Sustainable is one of those wonderful terms you can just throw on things.

9:08

Sustainable.

9:09

Credentials, but some locals and conservationists are outraged at the

9:17

environmental impact.

9:20

Yeah, duh.

9:20

That's crazy.

9:22

Yeah, look at that.

9:22

You're chopping down trees to protest chopping down trees.

9:25

That's fucking insane.

9:27

Sounds amazing.

9:27

I just, you know.

9:30

At what point in time are people going to wake up?

9:33

At one point in time, people are going to wake up.

9:36

And I think that that's, you know, that's sort of as I've been, I've just

9:39

started this book tour and everything else.

9:41

And it's the thing I'm trying to impress.

9:43

I was just talking about this the other night is like, we've had world wars.

9:47

We've had great famines.

9:49

We had the dust bowls.

9:50

Like there's never been a time in history, though, before where we're looking

9:54

at, is there going to be ecological collapse?

9:57

The thing that I'm talking about with where they've cut 20% of the Amazon,

10:01

scientists are warning that if we cut too much of the Amazon, that moisture

10:04

cycle, I think the thing was that 20 trillion liters of water every day are

10:08

pumped into the air from the Amazon.

10:10

And that becomes the cloud system that rains back down and creates the Amazon

10:13

rainforest.

10:14

If you cut too much of that, you break the cycle.

10:17

And that forest has been growing for something like 55 million years.

10:22

I believe it formed in the Eocene.

10:24

And so we are the generation that's going to decide, do we find a sustainable

10:29

way to keep the Amazon rainforest functioning, or are we going to break that

10:33

cycle?

10:34

And once we lose it, it's not going to come back.

10:36

It's so crazy.

10:38

It's so crazy that people are so short-sighted.

10:41

They're like, we want them to have cattle ranches.

10:44

It is disorganization and apathy.

10:47

It's like we have the ability to organize and credit.

10:50

I mean, if you can organize an airport, you can figure out a way to protect a

10:53

forest.

10:54

But the fact that it's in numerous Latin American countries, Brazil wants to

10:57

develop.

10:58

In Peru, you have the legal gold miners coming in.

11:01

And now you have the pressure from the Asian markets.

11:03

And, you know, we found that if you just, I mean, that's what we've been doing

11:07

over the last 20 years is going to these gold miners and loggers and going, how

11:11

much do you make?

11:12

And they go, $20 a day.

11:13

You go, do you want to make 60?

11:15

And you get a cool shirt.

11:16

And you get health benefits.

11:18

And you get to ride a boat.

11:19

And you get a team.

11:20

And they're like, yeah, that sounds so much better.

11:22

And they're happy to come over.

11:24

But they need the opportunity.

11:25

Yeah, we've talked about you doing that.

11:26

And I think that is really amazing.

11:28

It's just crazy that it takes a person like you and your organization to, like,

11:34

put some sort of a dent in this.

11:36

That this isn't some sort of a gigantic global effort.

11:40

That there's not a lot of people that are recognizing this issue and saying,

11:44

hey, this is a huge problem if this goes away.

11:47

I think, though, that I see in the world that I exist in, I see that all over

11:51

the world there's people doing conservation projects.

11:54

And that we are at this point where there's enough happening where, I mean, you

11:59

had E.O. Wilson advocating for the half-Earth policy where it's, you know, at

12:03

least half of the Earth has to remain ecosystems.

12:06

If you break too much down, if you ruin our ocean fisheries, if you cut the

12:09

rainforests in the forest, you're going to ruin the weather.

12:11

Right.

12:12

The stuff that comes standard with life on Earth is going to be depleted.

12:16

Right.

12:17

And so I think, you know, you see tiger numbers going up in India.

12:20

You see that there's actually been an increase in forest cover globally, but in

12:25

some of the most important areas, like the Amazon, it's just wild.

12:29

And, I mean, that's what we're doing is, you know, the guy, JJ, that I work

12:33

with, who's local, he's been trying to, he's been saying this for years.

12:38

I mean, since we saw each other, he got, which I don't know how this happened.

12:41

I don't know how some of this stuff happens.

12:43

But we got a, we got an email one day from Time and they were like, we're

12:47

selecting our, you know, 100 climate leaders of 2024.

12:52

And they're like, JJ is one of them.

12:55

And I have no idea how the people at Time select this, but they chose this.

13:00

I mean, JJ grew up in an indigenous community barefoot.

13:04

He didn't have shoes until he was 13.

13:05

And it was because he saw his forest get destroyed and because he saw the fish

13:10

vanish from the rivers as nets came in.

13:12

And then as chainsaws came to the region, he saw the trees go down and he went,

13:16

we got to protect the next river.

13:19

And so he's the one that, you know, when I went down there at 18 years old, he's

13:21

the one that was like, look, you got to help me protect this.

13:24

And of course, at 18 years old, I was like, how, how do I do that?

13:28

How, how on earth is that possible?

13:30

And then when we started seeing the smoke on the horizon and we started hearing

13:34

the chainsaws and it got more urgent, I started telling these stories.

13:38

And then the Anaconda stories and the, everything else, the first book that I

13:41

wrote and little by little, Jane Goodall, um, people helped along the way.

13:47

Joe Rogan helped along the way.

13:49

Well, I'm happy to get the word out because I, I, I mean, it's, it's kind of

13:53

insane that it's happening, but it's also that place is such a magical place.

13:59

And it has such an insane history that we're, we're just starting to understand

14:04

the history of the people that live there.

14:06

I mean, through the use of LIDAR, they're just starting to understand that the

14:10

entire place was massively populated and that a lot of the plants that exist in

14:16

the Amazon

14:16

are actually agriculture plants that went, you know, went rogue when the people

14:22

were depopulated because people brought in smallpox.

14:26

I, I got to push back on that.

14:29

That's, that's, I feel like that's a theory that's been becoming prevalent as a

14:32

theory.

14:33

Well, I'm sure there was a jungle before, because even in the lost city of Z, I

14:37

mean, even the, the talk, what is it?

14:39

Percy Fawcett?

14:40

Mm-hmm.

14:40

Yep.

14:41

Percy Fawcett.

14:42

The people that went there, they talked about the Amazon being a lush

14:45

rainforest.

14:46

Yeah.

14:47

And these enormous cities that were incredibly complex before the jungle

14:53

swallowed them up.

14:54

So it's, it's clear that there was some form of jungle there already.

14:58

A hundred percent.

14:58

But that these plants that they grew for agriculture were the ones that had,

15:04

you know, once people stopped tending them and taking care of them, they

15:09

overwhelmed the rest of the forest.

15:11

Yeah, a friend sent me a clip and you, I think you were talking to Tom Segura

15:14

and you went, you know, and the crazy thing about the Amazon and you went, it's,

15:18

it's largely manmade.

15:20

And I was like, and I like threw something and I was like, no, it's not.

15:23

Well, let's find out why we said that.

15:24

Let's pull that up, put, run that into perplexity and see what articles we get.

15:29

Because what they're saying is that these plants, the, the number, if I believe,

15:35

if I'm not misstating, the numbers that they exist in are, are not natural.

15:41

But that's only around these ancient sites.

15:43

And so I went and did a deep dive into this and the sites that they've studied

15:47

are along the watersheds.

15:49

And so in the Amazon, you have terra firma, which is sort of dry forest, and

15:52

then it dips into the river basin and you have floodplain.

15:55

Most of these cities existed on floodplains.

15:58

And so where the scientists are able to go is up the rivers and they go to the

16:01

edges of these floodplains where they find ancient human settlements.

16:04

And that's where you find terra preta soil, which is human engineered.

16:06

And that's where you find there'll be like a higher incidence of certain trees

16:11

or certain plants.

16:12

What are these trees?

16:13

And so like bananas, for example, or sometimes they'll plant a higher amount of

16:17

Brazil nut trees.

16:19

So here it is, our sponsor, Perplexity, which is always accurate.

16:22

Estimates suggest that roughly 10 to 15 percent of the Amazon standing forest

16:26

shows clear signs of being man-made, are strongly shaped by long-term

16:30

indigenous management, not planted as uniform tree farms, but modified over

16:35

thousands of years.

16:36

Much of the Amazon that looks wild has been influenced by pre-Columbian

16:41

indigenous agroforestry, soil enrichment, Amazon dark earths, that's terra preta,

16:46

and species selection rather than being a purely untouched wilderness.

16:50

These systems differ from modern plantations.

16:53

They are diverse, semi-natural forests enriched with useful trees and crops

16:58

rather than rows of single commercial species.

17:02

So the idea of the terra preta was that a lot of the Amazon soil is not good

17:06

for agriculture, is that correct?

17:09

It's barren.

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It used to be a vast inland sea.

18:23

Crazy.

18:24

Yes.

18:25

When it separated from Africa, the Congo and the Amazon used to be joined in

18:30

some sort of proto-Congo system.

18:33

And then when they separated, the Amazon, South America hit up against the Nazca

18:37

plate.

18:37

The Andes Mountains shot up.

18:39

And then the salinated water drained out.

18:41

And that's why we still have inland freshwater stingrays, manatees, pink river

18:46

dolphins.

18:47

Oh, that makes sense.

18:49

And so that happened over millions of years as the salinated water.

18:52

And here's the saltwater dolphins adapted to freshwater.

18:55

Exactly.

18:56

And is that why they became pink?

18:57

They became pink, I think, because they've lost their pigmentation.

19:01

They have terrible eyesight.

19:03

They almost don't need to see because you don't – in that sediment-rich water,

19:08

they're using – they're using sonar.

19:10

Whoa, that's crazy.

19:13

Yeah.

19:13

Yeah.

19:14

Wow.

19:15

So they've become almost blind?

19:16

Yeah, all the fish.

19:18

You pull out these giant catfish.

19:19

They hardly have eyes.

19:20

They have, like, light-sensing organs.

19:22

Whoa.

19:23

You can't see – I mean, there are clear rivers in the Amazon, which I would

19:26

love to – I've never been to one.

19:27

And, like, the streams are clear, but the Amazon River itself is nothing.

19:31

Everyone's like, oh, you should bring a GoPro in the river with you.

19:33

And I'm like, for what?

19:34

You're not going to see anything.

19:36

It's just sediment.

19:37

Yeah.

19:37

But the thing that this theory about the Amazon is even human-engineered is

19:43

wrong because when you look at the size of the Amazon, you look at that 2.7

19:48

million miles, it's that they've said that what they're not getting is that in

19:53

the areas that these people have been studying with LIDAR and through this

19:58

anthropological digging, they're saying it's more than we thought.

20:02

There's certainly more human settlements than we previously thought.

20:05

There maybe were a few million people there before Pizarro and the explorers

20:10

came.

20:11

But what you don't realize is that between the rivers, between each river,

20:16

which is the majority of the Amazon, is this terra firma giant jungle with

20:20

hundreds of miles between the rivers, nobody's been there.

20:24

And so I just was reading a scientific paper that was saying they went out and

20:28

sampled those areas, and it showed absolutely no sign of human engineering.

20:32

And so most of the forest-

20:34

In terms of the growth of the plants, but did they do LIDAR to see if there's

20:37

previous structures?

20:38

Well, the good thing with the LIDAR is that they fly over.

20:40

And so the LIDAR confirmed that over those human areas, like you get like a

20:43

river confluence where two rivers are coming together, there'll be a human

20:47

settlement there.

20:48

And in those areas, they find that the terra preta, they'll find that the

20:51

plants occur in different abundance and diversity than in the other places.

20:54

But this message that the Amazon itself was engineered by ancient humans or prehistoric

21:01

humans is not actually accurate.

21:03

It was a wild jungle.

21:04

So do you think they're saying it for clickbait?

21:06

Did they make those articles for clickbait?

21:06

I think they're saying it because people build their careers on, you know, if

21:10

you come out and say, I have a new theory about how this formed, it gets

21:14

attention.

21:15

There's even a-

21:16

And nothing against, what's his name?

21:19

Graham Hancock.

21:20

Mm-hmm.

21:20

For a while, everyone was like, oh, Paul Rosely needs to debate Graham.

21:24

No, I got nothing against Graham Hancock.

21:25

He's great.

21:26

But it's just the messaging is becoming that the Amazon was kind of man-made.

21:32

And so what happens is you get leaders like in Brazil going, well, if the

21:36

Amazon was really man-made, then we can manage it now.

21:38

And it's just not accurate.

21:41

If you look at the- and even Smithsonian did an article where they said, these

21:45

are the current things that are coming out.

21:46

These are the theories.

21:47

And then it went, yeah, but these theories discount the fact that 95% of the

21:51

Amazon rainforest has not been surveyed in this way.

21:54

And most of it shows that these are just wild ecosystems that have been growing

21:58

since the dawn of time for the last 55, 30 million years.

22:01

And it's just been speciating and growing and evolving on its own.

22:06

And it's only in these tiny areas that humans have done this sort of

22:10

engineering where there were tribes.

22:12

The first one to come down the Amazon, he mentioned that there were tribes that

22:16

had sectioned off parts of the river and they were growing the giant river

22:20

turtles.

22:20

And that was their prime source of protein.

22:22

So they figured out how to get protein.

22:24

Big as a giant river turtle.

22:25

Oh, tremendous.

22:26

They're like three or four feet across from the carapace.

22:29

Show me a giant river turtle, Jamie.

22:30

Oh, they're huge.

22:31

They're monstrous.

22:33

Absolutely.

22:34

We don't have them where we are.

22:35

Like bigger than sea turtles?

22:35

Like those sea turtles that you get in Hawaii?

22:37

Sea turtle size.

22:38

They're huge.

22:39

They're absolutely monstrous.

22:40

Right.

22:40

And then we found fossils over there.

22:42

We were on a beach.

22:43

We found fossils of an eight-foot river turtle.

22:46

Yeah.

22:46

But see, like that.

22:47

Oh, okay.

22:47

So just like the ones you find in Hawaii.

22:49

Those sea turtles are like, if you go to the big island, you could swim with

22:53

them.

22:53

It's pretty dope.

22:54

Yeah.

22:54

These guys don't have flippers, though.

22:56

They still have claws.

22:58

Oh, okay.

22:59

I mean, those are monster turtles.

23:00

Massive.

23:01

And so they were growing them, farming them for food.

23:04

They were farming them.

23:05

And so in areas like that, you're going to see agriculture.

23:08

You're going to see pottery.

23:09

You're going to see terra preta.

23:11

You're going to see things where there was a small civilization by the edge of

23:14

the river.

23:14

And then in the other 98% of the Amazon, no one's ever been there.

23:19

Have you had sea turtle before?

23:21

Have you, this kind of turtle, whatever it is, have you eaten it yet?

23:23

Oh, sea turtle?

23:24

No.

23:24

This?

23:25

Yes.

23:25

This turtle?

23:25

Yeah?

23:26

Absolutely.

23:26

What is it like?

23:29

It's kind of slimy.

23:30

It's not like anything.

23:31

It's very strange because they cook it and just, you know, everyone always, how

23:35

could you be a conservationist and eat the animal?

23:37

Because when you go to someone's house and they live on the side of a river and

23:40

they go, we're having dinner, that's what they're serving.

23:42

You got to eat with them.

23:43

You got to eat with them.

23:44

I wouldn't do that, man.

23:45

You're ruining the earth.

23:46

Yeah, how could you?

23:47

Let me throw paint on it.

23:48

Let me glue myself to the shell.

23:51

Yes, that's what I'm going to do next time.

23:53

And I showed you that video where I'm sharing the monkey head with the girl.

23:57

Yeah.

23:57

And I was like, I was babysitting a six-year-old and she was like, it's lunchtime.

24:00

And I was like, well, what did your parents leave you for lunch?

24:03

And she like, opens this pot and pulls out a monkey head.

24:05

And she was like, this.

24:06

So we put it on the fire, warmed it up.

24:08

And then we both sat there just like, rip it.

24:10

I would like rip off a piece for her because I was stronger and give it to her.

24:13

And then she was like, no, no, no.

24:14

I want the ear.

24:15

And she was like, she would rip off the ear.

24:17

Like, we just sat there eating a monkey face.

24:18

And so the turtle, they cook it in the shell.

24:21

They'll just like, you know, they'll just like slit its throat, throw it on the

24:23

fire.

24:24

And so it cooks in the shell.

24:26

Then they part the shell.

24:27

And then you kind of just like, it's like a slow cooked, like when the meat

24:30

falls off the bone.

24:31

Oh, wow.

24:32

You just throw a little salt on there.

24:33

And it's kind of, how do they get the salt?

24:35

Is that something they trade?

24:36

They trade for it.

24:37

They trade for it.

24:38

I mean, the people I'm dealing with have access to the outside.

24:41

Even the really remote communities that are two days upriver, they trade with

24:45

the outside world.

24:47

They have some interaction with money.

24:49

And so that's one of the things that we're doing as an organization is saying,

24:52

okay, what do you want your future to look like?

24:54

Because right now you have a couple shotguns.

24:57

You got a couple chainsaws.

24:58

You got a couple boats.

24:59

And those things make you want money.

25:01

But you also want to eat fish out of the river every day.

25:04

Right.

25:05

You also want to eat monkeys every day.

25:07

And these are your staples.

25:08

And they're like, you know, if you cut down more of these trees, there will be

25:12

less monkeys.

25:13

If you shoot too many, like it's not like they have deer tags where it's like a

25:17

monitored thing.

25:18

They just, they're not understanding.

25:20

You know, when it was a bow and arrow, it was kind of a fair game.

25:22

All right.

25:23

Now the shotgun, it's like you can go shoot whatever you want.

25:25

Yeah, every time you point at a monkey, it's dead.

25:27

Yes.

25:28

It's not a tricky hunt.

25:29

And so we're, these guys are, you know, working with us as rangers and we're

25:33

building this, developing this relationship with the local communities of

25:37

saying, how do you, do you want to continue living this way?

25:40

Do you want your kids to live this way?

25:42

And the answer usually is yes, but with better health and education.

25:46

So we want to, yes, but, that's interesting.

25:49

So they like that way of life.

25:51

They want, they want to continue that way of life because it's the only thing

25:54

they've known.

25:55

I mean, have any of these people ever gone to like any of these other cities

26:00

that are fairly close or that they could reach and see what that life is like?

26:05

Yeah, we brought, we brought one of the communities, they were having trouble

26:08

with the Peruvian government getting recognized as an indigenous community.

26:12

And they were having this trouble for 15 years.

26:14

And we, we used, you know, now we have lawyers and people and we have an office

26:18

and all this stuff in Peru.

26:19

And so we, we went and sat down with them.

26:21

We said, okay, why are you having this trouble?

26:23

I mean, you clearly are an indigenous community.

26:25

What's, what's the holdup?

26:26

And the holdup was that it takes two days for them to get to the nearest town.

26:30

When they get to the nearest town, they're scared of the traffic.

26:34

They have no idea what to do with paperwork.

26:36

They have to sit in an office.

26:38

I mean, these are people that are like putting their bows and arrows and guns

26:40

down and walking into an office and sitting there in the air conditioning.

26:43

And they're like, next.

26:44

And they're like, sit.

26:45

And they're like, do you have form like I-227B?

26:48

And they're like, I-2-a-b-b-b-b.

26:49

And they're like, what's your social security number?

26:51

And they're like, ah, you know, they got some like fish shells in there.

26:57

And so what we realized was that they were just having trouble with the

26:59

administrative part.

27:00

And so we put our lawyers on it and we got them their indigenous titled land.

27:05

And so now no one can take that away from them.

27:07

And so for that, we brought them all to the city.

27:09

We had a big conference and we had a big celebration about it.

27:13

And they all had the feathers on their head and they were all celebrating.

27:15

And now they're safe.

27:17

Do they get – is there any pushback?

27:19

Like is there any like political influence by the – whatever it is, miners,

27:24

ranchers, anyone who tries to stop that from happening, bribe people to try to

27:28

take over the land of these people?

27:30

Absolutely.

27:31

I mean the Amazon is a war zone of influence.

27:35

And so you have – I mean the miners, if anybody tries to protest the gold

27:38

mining, they kill you.

27:40

So one of the lawyers that I was working with, his father had come out and said,

27:44

look, as a local Peruvian person in the jungle, I want this to stop.

27:49

They can't – they're destroying – there's a – Jamie, there's a photo in

27:53

the folder that says – I think it says sandstorm or something.

27:56

But it's just – it's not even – again, deserts are actually ecosystems.

28:00

This is a wasteland.

28:02

They've destroyed hundreds of thousands of acres in the Peruvian Amazon.

28:05

You can see it from space.

28:07

It's this horrible scar.

28:08

And they've cut the trees, burned the forest, and then they've sucked the land

28:12

up.

28:13

And then they take the bottom of the sediment and they use mercury to bind the

28:17

gold out of the sediment.

28:18

And then they burn the mercury off the gold, releasing it into the air.

28:23

Oh, great.

28:24

Oh, yeah.

28:24

So that then in the rain, it comes down as mercury rain, which gets into the

28:27

fish, which gets into the people.

28:29

And then also the miners must be getting mercury poisoning.

28:32

The miners all have mercury poisoning, birth defects, health problems,

28:36

respiratory issues.

28:38

I mean, it's – yeah, that's some of the fires.

28:41

Is that you?

28:43

That is me.

28:44

That is me running out there with my –

28:46

So you're right there.

28:47

Yeah.

28:48

I mean, as soon as we see forest burning, we run towards it.

28:52

And it rains there a lot, right?

28:54

So, like, how long does this forest fire last?

28:56

Well, they do it in September when the – it's like July through September

29:01

when the forest is at its driest.

29:03

They come in and they cut the forest and they leave it down.

29:06

What was that picture you just showed me, Jamie?

29:07

That's a horrible picture.

29:08

Was that animals burned alive on a tree?

29:11

That's two baby jaguars that were burned alive.

29:13

Oh, God.

29:14

Yeah.

29:15

And so people –

29:15

And they're just stuck on the tree, burned alive?

29:17

That's crazy.

29:18

People talk about, you know, we're losing ecosystems.

29:21

And it's like, it's not just about us.

29:23

These animals live there.

29:24

They have nowhere else to go.

29:26

And so there's massive individual suffering for – I mean, there's millions of

29:29

animals on a single tree.

29:30

And so then when you have these fires where they cut the forest and just burn

29:34

everything, this – I mean, those trees would have been filled with monkeys

29:39

and birds.

29:40

And the snakes, you know, they get scared.

29:43

They burrow deeper into their hole and then it burns.

29:46

And so this is all for gold mining?

29:48

This was for cattle ranching, this one.

29:51

This was invaders on our river that come in from other places.

29:55

They set up cows.

29:57

They set up papaya.

29:58

I mean, this is what it's supposed to look like.

30:00

It's supposed to be this lush, verdant, ancient rainforest filled with wildlife.

30:05

I mean, the cacophony of sound.

30:07

When you're going to sleep in your tent at night and you're out in a place like

30:11

that, it's just this throbbing, pulsing symphony.

30:15

It's incredible.

30:16

The magic of that place, of real wilderness, is wild.

30:19

I mean, this is a place – that particular shot was – it's – we had to go

30:23

for days to reach that spot.

30:25

You know, all day on the river camp, all day on the river camp.

30:28

You know, you're going up rapids.

30:29

You're going up the waterfalls to get to these places that nobody can go.

30:33

And there's an example of – that was specifically a location where they've

30:38

studied and they've found that there's never been a human settlement there.

30:41

It's just a corner of the Amazon ever.

30:43

Have they done LIDAR in these areas where they say that people have never been?

30:46

I don't know for sure.

30:47

That's where it gets weird, right?

30:48

Because, like, they've done LIDAR in some of these places that were, like, very

30:51

lush and tropical.

30:52

And then they find these structures underneath it.

30:55

Absolutely.

30:55

They find these areas that clearly had, you know, some sort of pathways and,

31:01

like, geometric patterns that indicate foundations of buildings.

31:07

Yeah.

31:07

No, I mean, those are there.

31:08

I just think that right now the problem is that it's getting grossly overstated

31:12

how much of the Amazon – if you take it as a football field and you go, man,

31:15

I thought it was only in this much of the football field, you know, in a few

31:19

inches of it.

31:20

And then you find out there's actually 10 feet of the football field that was

31:24

– there's still the rest of the football field is still wild.

31:27

Right, right.

31:28

And so I think that's the message that's getting lost is they're going, there's

31:31

a lot more here than we thought.

31:32

That doesn't mean the whole thing.

31:34

I watched a documentary once on this guy who was losing his mind.

31:37

He was a scientist who was a biologist who was convinced that the giant sloth

31:42

still existed in the Amazon.

31:44

Yeah.

31:45

And they couldn't find it.

31:45

Yeah.

31:46

And that these people who lived there were telling him, we see them.

31:50

We know what they are.

31:51

We have a name for them.

31:52

And this guy had been there for years and he was losing his mind because he

31:55

couldn't find it.

31:56

And he sort of staked his academic reputation on the idea that this sloth

32:00

existed, couldn't find anything.

32:02

But it doesn't mean it's not there.

32:04

It doesn't mean it's not there.

32:05

Because there's so much.

32:07

There's so much.

32:08

And the locals are never wrong.

32:11

Like imagine if you were looking for a coyote and you had to look through the

32:15

entire – like there was a thousand coyotes in the center of the United States.

32:19

And you started in Pennsylvania.

32:20

And you were hiking your way like, I don't see any fucking coyotes.

32:24

I don't see any.

32:25

But there's a thousand of them that are in North Dakota.

32:27

And you've got to find – like that's essentially –

32:31

That's a great way of thinking of it.

32:32

It's the same thing with rattlesnakes.

32:34

When I was a teenager, I was exploring the mountains of New York.

32:38

And I was going, it says there's rattlesnakes here.

32:41

So I was just walking around finding every kind of snake.

32:43

I'd be like, well, where are the rattlesnakes?

32:45

And you don't realize that the wildlife occurs in populations.

32:48

And so the rattlesnakes were all near rattlesnake dens.

32:51

And so then I started making friends with other guys that were into snakes.

32:54

And they were like, yeah, we know where they are.

32:55

It's only – you see that mountain right there?

32:57

It's like it's on the side of that.

32:58

Go to that in the morning when there's sun and you'll see them basking.

33:02

It's like you've got to go to where they live.

33:04

Right, and you have to talk to the people that actually know.

33:07

Well, this guy was trying to do that.

33:09

But there was this one scene of exasperation where he was like sitting down

33:14

saying,

33:14

did I stake my entire reputation on horse shit, you know?

33:18

Did he –

33:19

Buddy, do you have to pee?

33:20

He keeps getting up, which is unusual for him.

33:23

Can you tell Jeff to come and get him and see if he can – he might have to

33:27

pee.

33:27

He's generally – he's happy to chill.

33:30

Yeah, I'll just lay down.

33:31

He keeps getting up and he's huffing, which is like he communicates that way.

33:36

Like when he wants to eat, he comes up to me and he huffs, you know?

33:38

My buddy, he's the best.

33:40

He's the best.

33:42

No, but I think that that's the truth is that it's – people think it's like

33:47

you can just go find this stuff

33:49

and it's – the secrets in this world are hidden for a reason.

33:53

And even if there is a tribe that knows about the giant ground sloths, they're

33:57

not going to tell us.

33:59

Right.

34:00

They're not going to tell someone from the outside.

34:01

Right, right, right.

34:02

So it might be like one valley between two mountains where there's still a

34:06

population.

34:06

Just take him to go to the bathroom and bring him back in here.

34:08

I'm pretty sure he has to go.

34:10

Thanks, Jeff.

34:11

I wouldn't – you know.

34:14

I mean there's got to be a bunch – well, there's so many plants that they

34:17

find there.

34:18

This is an interesting statistic.

34:22

Find out what percentage of pharmaceutical drugs the compounds emanate from the

34:27

Amazon.

34:27

It's an enormous percentage.

34:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:30

A lot of the base drugs – quinine came from the Amazon, the first cure for

34:34

malaria.

34:34

I know captopril, which was a blood pressure medication, came from Bushmaster

34:38

Venom.

34:39

That was in the 90s.

34:40

There's so much.

34:42

I mean I just got whacked by a stingray hard.

34:44

I saw that.

34:46

It got your foot, right?

34:47

That was brutal.

34:47

What was that?

34:48

What happened?

34:49

That was brutal.

34:49

I mean that in –

34:51

Bro, you've been hit by everything.

34:52

I had to –

34:53

Dude, my body is a Jackson Pollock painting of scars.

34:57

Do you ever get checked for parasites because you must have all of them.

35:00

I do.

35:00

Estimates typically say that about 25% of modern pharmaceutical drugs are

35:06

derived from rainforest

35:07

plants.

35:08

And many of those known examples come from the Amazon, but there's no precise

35:13

peer-reviewed

35:14

percentage just for the Amazon alone.

35:16

Most popular figures, you see like 25% of medicines come from the Amazon

35:21

actually refer

35:22

to all tropical rainforest, not specifically the Amazon.

35:25

But the thing is like how much of the Amazon has not been explored and how many

35:30

potential

35:31

pharmaceutical drugs or – that's the term, right?

35:35

Pharmaceutical drugs.

35:36

What about natural remedies exist in the Amazon that aren't – you don't need

35:41

to patent

35:41

them and sell them at a fucking pharmacy and –

35:45

Yeah.

35:45

I mean look.

35:46

So we have neosporin.

35:49

You get a cut.

35:50

It looks a little infected.

35:51

You put neosporin on it.

35:52

It might work.

35:53

Down there we have a tree that if you – we tested this and it murders

35:57

bacteria.

35:58

It's like 100 times more potent than neosporin.

36:01

What's it called?

36:02

The sangre de drago.

36:03

It's not even a big secret.

36:05

Like people know about this.

36:07

Every time I post about it, everyone's like, yeah, we know about that.

36:09

We use it.

36:10

No, kidding.

36:11

But no one's ever turned it into a cream.

36:12

Can it grow in Austin?

36:13

Probably.

36:14

Can I get some sangre – how do you say it?

36:16

Sangre de drago.

36:17

The dragon's blood.

36:17

Sangre de drago.

36:19

Sangre de drago.

36:20

Sangre de drago.

36:21

Yes.

36:21

Dragon's blood tree.

36:22

I'm watching Game of Thrones again.

36:23

That sounds like something Khaleesi would say.

36:25

The mother of dragons.

36:28

I mean – and by the way, Carl Drago could have used that.

36:33

He died of an injection.

36:34

I mean, right?

36:34

The thing that took him down.

36:35

That didn't make any sense to me.

36:37

I thought that was a plot hole.

36:38

No.

36:38

Here it is.

36:38

Dragon's blood.

36:40

Sangre de drago.

36:42

Wow.

36:42

Yeah, but is it good?

36:43

Is it sourced well?

36:44

Right.

36:45

It's probably made by some asshole.

36:46

It's probably like 1%.

36:48

The rest of it's corn syrup.

36:49

Because we just go – we just hit the tree with the machete.

36:51

And then you have a spoon.

36:52

Right.

36:53

And then you put it on your thing.

36:54

And actually, exactly that.

36:56

When I saw that, I thought the opposite.

36:57

I was like, oh, this great warrior.

36:59

I was like, that's such a great plot twist that just a nick kills him.

37:03

I mean, I just had a staph infection in my leg from one mosquito bite that just

37:07

got itchy.

37:08

And then it spread and it spread and it spread until I had to be on double

37:12

antibiotics.

37:13

They cultured it.

37:14

And it was MRSA.

37:14

And it's like, I would have died.

37:17

MRSA in the Amazon.

37:17

Well, I got MRSA years ago at – I had dengue and I had gone to a clinic in

37:24

the city,

37:25

which MRSA usually lives in the hospitals in the human areas.

37:28

Right.

37:29

Because it's a medication-resistant staph infection.

37:32

Exactly.

37:32

That's what MRSA stands for, right?

37:34

Yep.

37:34

And so I had gotten it.

37:36

And so I have a tendency now.

37:37

I've been a little bit compromised in terms of infections because I was living

37:40

20 years

37:41

in the jungle.

37:41

And so I had already gotten it.

37:45

So chances are that's where – it doesn't exist.

37:47

And that's the thing.

37:47

You see in the wild jungle, you don't have malaria.

37:51

You don't have rabies.

37:52

You don't have dengue.

37:53

Because the human population is so low that it doesn't spread.

37:56

A mosquito bites you.

37:57

Here, the next person that's going to bite is me or Jamie.

38:01

Mosquito bites me in the city and then I go out into the rainforest.

38:05

There's no one else for it to bite.

38:06

It's going to bite an anteater.

38:07

Right.

38:08

And so it's not going to spread like that.

38:10

Got it.

38:10

Whereas if we have a town of loggers – that's why when you go to these

38:13

logging and mining

38:13

camps, the diseases – they're just – I mean, there's this thing called –

38:18

this type

38:18

of flea called a piki that burrows into your feet and lays eggs.

38:22

There's leishmaniasis.

38:24

There's malaria, dengue.

38:25

What's the bird?

38:27

Zyca virus.

38:28

There's all these crazy things.

38:30

But we don't have that out in the jungle because, I mean, the ecosystem, the

38:34

frogs

38:35

eat most of the mosquito larva.

38:38

The mosquito larvae like bromeliad cups or puddles.

38:42

Well, bromeliad cups and puddles are filled with tadpoles.

38:46

And then, of course, there's turtles in the puddles eating the tadpoles.

38:49

And then there's other things eating the turtles.

38:50

Everything's eating everything.

38:51

Ecosystem regulates it.

38:53

When you ruin that, so then you cut down the forest, now you have puddles

38:57

sitting in

38:57

the sun and they're all twitching with mosquito larvae.

39:00

So then you have tons of mosquitoes.

39:01

And so that's how nature – they say, you know, mangrove forests will stop

39:06

tsunamis from

39:08

destroying a town because they'll stop the rush of the water.

39:11

Well, forests will keep you safe by not only producing rainfall that'll come

39:15

down on your

39:15

crops, but also making sure that the ecosystem's not out of balance so you're

39:19

not covered in

39:20

mosquitoes and parasites.

39:21

When I lived in L.A., I moved into a house in Encino that I was renting and no

39:26

one had

39:27

lived there in quite a while and they had left the water in the pool.

39:30

And when I was going out to look at the pool, the pool was completely green and

39:36

there was

39:36

things swimming in it.

39:38

Like, I mean, like school, swimming.

39:41

And I go, what is that?

39:42

And the guy goes, that's mosquito larvae.

39:44

I was like, oh!

39:45

I'm like, no way.

39:47

And he's like, yeah, we have to kill them.

39:49

We have to drain the pool.

39:51

Like, I was just thinking about how many times I was going to get bit once

39:55

these things hatched.

39:56

It was crazy.

39:57

Like, it was like watching little fish swim around, little hatchlings.

40:01

And then thank God for dragonflies because they'll lay their young in the same

40:04

thing.

40:05

And dragonfly larvae will go merc those things.

40:07

They're savage.

40:08

And then you get tadpoles.

40:10

You got a wild kingdom right in your pool.

40:12

Right in your pool, right in your little cup.

40:13

But when I got stung by the stingray, it was crazy because I had been walking

40:19

with shoes

40:20

in this stream.

40:21

I took my shoes off because I was like, oh, I'm at a waterfall.

40:23

I know this waterfall.

40:24

I love this waterfall.

40:25

Playing in the waterfall.

40:27

Man, it's the one thing, bullet ants, caiman bites, snake bites.

40:30

I've had it all.

40:31

The stingray bite was the one thing.

40:33

Worse than bullet ants?

40:34

A hundred thousand times worse.

40:37

Really?

40:37

Yes.

40:38

And I'd seen one guy get stung by a stingray and he had nerve damage, a

40:42

systemic infection

40:44

up his leg and his whole body, and he didn't walk for months.

40:47

So when I got hit, I felt, this is what I felt.

40:50

I felt, in the flash of a second, I felt the stingray barb go into my foot and

40:55

it wagged

40:56

its tail under my skin.

40:57

So it flayed the skin off the arch of my foot and came out.

41:00

And it has venom?

41:04

Yeah.

41:05

So there, all the skin is.

41:07

Oh, man.

41:08

Yeah.

41:08

That's nasty.

41:10

Did you put the skin of the dragon or whatever the hell it is?

41:13

Better.

41:13

So I sat and, of course, my first thing was, I was like, okay, I got to

41:16

document.

41:17

Oh, man.

41:18

I'm unconscious.

41:19

I'm unconscious at this point.

41:20

You're in that much pain?

41:21

Yes.

41:22

I was blacking out.

41:22

Marshall's freaking out.

41:23

He's like, what is happening?

41:24

Yeah.

41:24

I mean, I was literally, I knew people were filming and I was like, I didn't,

41:27

you know,

41:28

you want to be tough.

41:29

You want to be like, all right, I just got bit by a stingray.

41:31

It's going to be fine.

41:31

I was not tough.

41:33

It says, I don't remember any of this.

41:35

Yeah.

41:35

So that first thing right there, I started taking a video.

41:37

My friend comes up to me and he was like, hey, man, he's like, we got to, you

41:40

got to

41:41

stop.

41:41

He's like, cause in a minute you're going to go under.

41:43

And I was like, what do you mean?

41:44

I'm going to go under.

41:45

And he's like, once the venom hits your system, he's, he goes, you're not going

41:49

to be able

41:49

to walk.

41:50

And we're, we're still a few miles from the river.

41:51

And he's like, we got to get you to the boat and we can't carry you.

41:54

And so they got me back to the station.

41:58

I don't remember any of it.

41:59

They had me laying on my back and I was in so much pain.

42:02

I couldn't put my foot down.

42:03

I mean, I was making deals with God.

42:04

I was going, if I, if you, if you just make the pain go away, I was like, I'll

42:07

go to church

42:08

every day.

42:08

I was like, I'll never smoke a cigarette again.

42:09

So that's the plant medicine.

42:12

That's where I'm going with this.

42:13

I'll never smoke a cigarette every day.

42:14

That's funny.

42:14

They, that, that pack there, they went to two different trees and they removed

42:21

compounds

42:21

from the tree.

42:22

One was the bark and one was the fiber and they put it into a leaf pack and

42:26

they cook it

42:26

on a pan and they heat it and it makes this plant poultice and they put this

42:31

boiling

42:31

hot piece of plant material.

42:32

It's like a, it's like a fish cake and they put it against the wound and even

42:36

that burned,

42:37

but it felt better than the, than the venom and it starts to suck out the venom.

42:41

And so when they took it off my foot after like, this is, this is them getting

42:45

the, getting

42:46

the plant material where they know the medicines and that's been handed down

42:49

through the generations.

42:50

So they're just shaving it off with a knife.

42:53

Yes.

42:53

You see this few different colors.

42:54

And then they make like a cake of all this stuff.

42:55

Uh-huh.

42:56

And then they heat that up until it's scalding, press it against your foot.

43:01

And you've been in the Amazon for a long time.

43:03

Is this, this is the first time that's ever happened to you?

43:05

You've been stung by a stingray?

43:06

This is the first time.

43:07

Now, how does it happen?

43:08

You just, you step in the wrong place?

43:10

JJ's nephew.

43:11

So he knows he's got the indigenous training.

43:13

He knew exactly what to do.

43:15

Wow.

43:16

Yeah.

43:16

And so that's all the venom.

43:17

So now all that black stuff is all the, all the, the, the denatured blood that

43:23

came

43:23

out of my foot.

43:23

And so for about four hours, I was in this state of just level 10 pain, just

43:28

white hot

43:28

pain.

43:28

I couldn't talk to anybody.

43:29

I couldn't do anything.

43:30

People were coming to me and they were like, what can we do?

43:32

And I was like, just leave me alone.

43:34

I was like, I don't want you to look at my face.

43:35

You know, I was coming in and out.

43:37

And then, and then by nighttime it had, it had gotten, this was at night where

43:42

I was like,

43:42

okay, the pain had subsided, but I didn't get nerve damage and I didn't get a

43:46

huge infection

43:47

because they had this indigenous plant medicine to save me.

43:50

Wow.

43:51

The last guy that I knew that got it, he'd went straight to the hospital and

43:54

they'd had

43:54

no idea how to deal with it.

43:55

The locals know how to deal with this stuff.

43:57

Wow.

43:58

Look at that.

43:59

That's crazy.

44:00

That's tree medicine.

44:01

That's crazy.

44:01

So what happens?

44:04

You just stepped in the wrong spot.

44:05

That's all it is.

44:06

I mean, I've stepped on stingrays before and you feel them flutter.

44:08

And I, one time I even felt the barb go like past my foot, but it didn't

44:12

penetrate.

44:13

I do not know how, I mean, it must've been a small one or something, but it

44:17

just right

44:18

up through the, through the arch of my foot.

44:21

And what's funny is it just.

44:22

I would never walk barefoot ever.

44:24

I walk barefoot all the time, but, but, but just days before, not days before

44:27

that, about

44:28

a month before that I'd fallen off of something like a 50 or 60 foot cliff and

44:32

just rolled

44:33

down and bruised ribs and gotten all banged up.

44:36

I'd climbed up this cliff thinking I could, I was like, Oh, I see this root up

44:39

there.

44:39

I can get up to the top.

44:40

And at the top, my strength just ran out and my feet were peddling and I had no

44:45

footholds.

44:46

And I just went tumbling down this thing.

44:48

And I just went, you know what?

44:50

I said, I've had infections.

44:51

I've had crocodile bites.

44:52

I've had, I've had dengue.

44:54

I said, I'm, I got a week left in the Amazon.

44:56

I'd been in the Amazon for six months and I was like, I'm doing nothing

44:59

dangerous.

45:00

No tree climbing, no anaconda hunting, no croc diving, none of that stuff.

45:04

And I was just swimming in a waterfall.

45:06

Bam.

45:06

Just, just put me out of the game.

45:10

That was actually in April.

45:11

I waited to post it until now, but everyone's, everyone's messaging me going,

45:14

how's your foot?

45:15

And I'm like, it was months ago, but I was like, it is better.

45:18

How long did it take before it was better?

45:19

Honestly, two days.

45:20

I was on my feet in two days.

45:22

It was fine.

45:22

Yeah.

45:23

And if you went to the hospital?

45:24

I did not go to the hospital.

45:26

But if you did go to the hospital, how long would it take?

45:27

I mean, the guy that, the guy that went to the hospital didn't walk for two

45:31

months, had

45:32

the necrosis and, and had a huge infection that he had to go get treatments for.

45:37

I mean, he went back to his home country and had to continue being treated for

45:40

months.

45:41

I felt terrible.

45:41

And him too, watching, watching someone roll back and forth in that type of agonizing

45:46

pain,

45:47

like brave heart pain, like when they're just like opening him up.

45:50

I mean, I just didn't know there was pain like that.

45:53

You know, I mean, I've, I've, I've ripped open every part of my body and, and I,

45:56

I just,

45:57

this was, it's from the inside and it's pulsating and you just go, the other

46:01

thing is you go,

46:02

how much, how much of my year did I just miss?

46:05

You know, am I gonna, it's like the, the one time I almost chopped my knee.

46:09

Uh, I almost cut the tendon that holds your kneecap on.

46:11

And I was just like, man, did I just take myself out of the game for a year?

46:14

You know, just like, come on.

46:16

And so when that happened, I was like, this is going to be so bad.

46:19

And meanwhile, a couple of days later, you're walking around because they

46:22

understood the

46:23

medicine.

46:23

Well, because the local guys know.

46:24

Yeah.

46:24

That was awesome.

46:25

Did you ask them how they know this stuff?

46:27

Yeah.

46:28

Their father taught them and their mother taught them and their grandparents

46:33

know.

46:34

And so that's the thing with knowledge, indigenous knowledge all over the world.

46:38

If you, if you listen to authors like Wade Davis, who writes a lot about

46:41

indigenous wisdom,

46:42

you know, this is stuff that's been one at a time gleaned from nature.

46:47

And, you know, you, you know, better than most, you know, you're living out

46:50

there.

46:51

Who's the first person that figured out ayahuasca?

46:54

You know, if we take this and this, we take this vine and then we take this and

46:58

we boil

46:58

them together.

46:58

How many trials and errors, how many dead guys were there before one worked?

47:02

Right.

47:02

And what was the motivation?

47:04

And what was the motivation?

47:05

They said the jungle taught them how to do it.

47:07

They did.

47:08

The prevailing thing is that science and, and sort of the, like the statistics

47:14

of, of trial

47:15

and error are incomprehensible given 40,000 plant species and all the different

47:19

flowering

47:20

and orchids and trees.

47:21

And so it would take millennia if, if you did trial and error.

47:26

Yeah.

47:27

And the cost of human life to any civilization would make it too high.

47:30

And so when they say that the gods gave us ayahuasca, that's the prevailing

47:35

best thing

47:36

we got is that it's a link between our world and the spirit world that the

47:40

jungle gave us.

47:41

Right.

47:42

And, and the, you know, the other thing is like how much of our senses have atrophied

47:48

by modern civilization?

47:49

Yeah.

47:50

Like what kind of communication do you actually get from the forest?

47:54

Like, is there, is it instincts, intuition?

47:58

Are there senses?

47:59

Does, is there a feeling that you get where you get an understanding of

48:03

combining two things

48:05

because the jungle's actually got a way of communicating with you that's a nonverbal

48:09

way?

48:10

I think the, the jungle, I mean, I view it as almost a, you know, it's like, it's

48:14

godlike.

48:15

It's, it's almost like a giant complex sentient being.

48:19

And so you, if you listen to, if you watch, you know, if you walk the jungle

48:22

with JJ, an

48:23

indigenous tracker, he'll tell you, you listen to the birds, they'll tell you

48:27

how fast you're

48:28

allowed to walk.

48:28

What?

48:29

And what he, what he means is you're walking through the forest on a sunny day,

48:33

it's the

48:33

afternoon and everybody's chirping and making tons of noise.

48:36

And all of a sudden everything goes quiet.

48:37

And then you got to figure out, you know, is that because there's a weather

48:42

system coming

48:42

in and we're about to be in a thunderstorm or is there a jaguar right over

48:45

there?

48:46

And everything around me knows, and it's like the, the, the birds are the messengers

48:50

of

48:50

the forest.

48:51

And so you, even that you start to become attuned to the frequency of the

48:54

forest.

48:55

And I notice when I bring people in that, you know, I've never been in the wild

48:59

before

48:59

they, they walk loud, they're talking the whole time.

49:02

They're not paying attention to that sort of, you know, holistic view of where

49:06

you are.

49:06

You know, modern civilized life has made us so clunky when it comes to the

49:11

woods.

49:12

Yeah.

49:13

You know, just when I take people in the woods, if people have never hunted

49:16

before, you know,

49:17

they're stepping on branches, snap, snap, kicking rocks over, you're like,

49:21

talking loud.

49:22

My favorite is walking in front of you.

49:24

And then when the stick snaps back, like having the sensitivity to like, they

49:27

don't catch it.

49:28

Yeah.

49:28

They don't catch it.

49:29

Like, come on.

49:30

Just get smacked in the face.

49:31

Yeah.

49:31

Thanks.

49:32

Well, it's just a lack of awareness.

49:34

You know what I mean?

49:34

It's like, if you've never been, you don't understand.

49:37

But I mean, I would imagine it's that times a million in the Amazon and then

49:42

all the different

49:43

things that are communicating.

49:44

One of the things that they found out with, uh, with monkeys is that monkeys

49:50

have some sort

49:51

of a language where they can say a sound that means an eagle is there.

49:55

Yes.

49:56

And that they will play tricks on other monkeys so that they can get to fruit.

50:00

Yeah.

50:00

Yeah.

50:01

So they will say that an eagle is there when an eagle's not there.

50:05

Uh-huh.

50:05

And then they'll go and steal the fruit.

50:07

Yeah.

50:08

So they will lie about an eagle being there.

50:11

Not surprising.

50:11

So they can get access to fruit.

50:12

Lying monkeys does not surprise me.

50:14

It's African vervet monkeys that I, that I've read about that they have

50:18

different calls,

50:19

different words for land predator, lion, eagle, and they can communicate these

50:25

things.

50:25

So, I mean, they're speaking.

50:26

Yeah.

50:26

They're speaking.

50:27

As are crows, I'm sure.

50:28

Oh, God.

50:29

Yes.

50:30

Yeah.

50:30

Oh, yes.

50:31

They're super intelligent.

50:31

Yeah.

50:32

Oh, I don't know how we pull this up.

50:34

I have it on YouTube, but there was this thing where we were coming down river.

50:37

It was like seven in the morning.

50:39

We'd been up at our, this is a communication with monkeys theme.

50:42

As, as we're coming down river, it's like seven in the morning and I'm, I'm

50:45

always cold.

50:46

So I'm sitting on the boat and I'm cold.

50:47

I'm just like listening to music or something.

50:49

And JJ is like, look, look, look.

50:51

He's like, there's a spider monkey in the river.

50:52

And I was like, there's always a, you know, spider monkeys cross rivers.

50:55

That's okay.

50:56

And he's like, no, no, no.

50:57

The river is high right now.

50:58

And there's all these whirlpools and currents.

51:00

And so, yeah, I jump into the river.

51:02

To save the monkey?

51:04

To save the monkey.

51:05

She couldn't get to the side.

51:06

So I give her my paddle and she looks at me and she goes, no.

51:08

She's like, I'm scared of you.

51:10

And then I spoke to her in spider monkey.

51:11

What did you say?

51:12

Like that.

51:15

She thinks you're going to eat her.

51:16

She thinks I'm going to eat her.

51:17

But as soon as I started going, look, look, she's looking at me because I'm

51:21

making the

51:21

sound and all of a sudden she goes, wait, wait, wait, you, you speak me

51:25

language.

51:26

Whoa.

51:27

And then.

51:27

She would do it like you would do it.

51:29

See, I'm making it right there.

51:32

And she's looking at me.

51:33

We're talking right to her.

51:34

No, no, no, no, no.

51:35

And then I'm like, look, it's okay.

51:37

And they like their tail to be supported.

51:38

Wow.

51:39

That's crazy, dude.

51:41

She let you hold on to her.

51:42

And so now she's relaxed.

51:44

That's crazy, dude.

51:46

You saved a monkey.

51:47

Only because I spoke her language and I learned her language from some of the

51:50

orphans that I've

51:51

rescued.

51:52

That's crazy, man.

51:53

And then she was like, well, if you let, because I could have grabbed her like,

51:55

you know,

51:55

like animal control, like grabbed her by the neck.

51:57

And I was like, you know what?

51:58

Look, she's looking at me because I keep talking to her.

52:00

And then you got her over to the shore?

52:02

Yeah.

52:02

Got her over to the side.

52:04

And she kept looking at me like, what is, what?

52:07

What happened when you put her down?

52:08

I put her down.

52:09

She ran away.

52:09

She just ran away?

52:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

52:10

But not fast.

52:13

She didn't run away like she was in terror.

52:14

Yeah.

52:15

Oh, yeah.

52:16

When I first did it, I went, and she looked at me and she went, she looked at

52:21

me and she

52:22

like responded.

52:23

She was like, what?

52:24

That's crazy.

52:25

You speak at me.

52:26

That's crazy.

52:27

It was wild.

52:28

And that's one of those stories where if it wasn't on video and I said, I spoke

52:31

to a

52:31

spider monkey and she responded, people would be like, yeah, bullshit.

52:34

Right.

52:34

I saved a spider monkey like, bitch, that was your pet.

52:36

Yeah.

52:36

Yeah.

52:37

That looked like a pet.

52:38

That looked like you had a relationship with it.

52:40

Like as you're holding onto the tail, like it knew you.

52:42

When she was looking back, I mean, she was like, hey, thanks for the branch.

52:45

You know?

52:45

Yeah.

52:46

I was, she, because she was drowning.

52:47

We saw her head go under a few times.

52:49

She was really struggling.

52:51

She was exhausted.

52:51

And I know that the spider monkey, their tail is their fifth limb.

52:56

They have this incredible finger pad that's like 12 inches long.

52:59

And so it just, it just wraps.

53:01

They always had their tail anchored on a branch.

53:04

And so I, I held her tail and I was like, I got you.

53:08

Now hold onto the stick.

53:09

I was like explaining it to her.

53:12

And she's looking at me going, how the hell are you?

53:14

That is so wild.

53:16

Yeah.

53:16

It was, it was really cool.

53:18

That was a, I originally, I was like, JJ, I was like, I don't want to get wet.

53:21

She'll be fine.

53:21

He was like, go get it.

53:22

Go catch it.

53:23

I was like, okay.

53:23

Wow.

53:24

Meanwhile, you've eaten spider monkey, haven't you?

53:26

Well, sure.

53:27

That doesn't mean I don't want to save him.

53:31

Right.

53:32

I would save a deer.

53:34

There you go.

53:35

But does it feel, it must feel really weird eating a primate.

53:41

I wish I could say it did.

53:42

I don't care.

53:43

Really?

53:44

No.

53:44

I mean, I've, we've become very callous to certain things, but I mean, when

53:47

people serve

53:48

turtle now, I'm like, well, which one is it?

53:49

You know, it's like, I don't, I don't really, you know, it's like ribeye or T-bone.

53:53

Like, what are we, what are we eating?

53:54

Is turtle good?

53:55

Like, would you like order it at a restaurant?

53:57

All right.

53:58

So the problem is that the way they, the way they cook it down there, these are

54:02

people

54:02

that live hand to mouth.

54:04

Right.

54:05

And so when they cook a turtle, if you get salt, you're lucky.

54:09

It's not like they're sprinkling some cilantro on it and like marinating it.

54:13

It's, you know, so if you just like took a chicken and threw it on a fire and

54:16

then like

54:17

ate a piece of it, it's not great.

54:19

And so a lot of times that you eat this, this food way out there in the bush.

54:24

I mean, I've been there where they've shot a spider monkey, grilled it up and I've

54:27

been

54:27

like, you know, I'll just eat rice.

54:29

And then I'm like, I'm going to be, I'm going to be tired tomorrow.

54:31

There's no protein.

54:32

I haven't had protein in a week.

54:33

And I'm like, give me an arm, you know, you just like eat the hand.

54:38

I'm like, all right.

54:39

And it just tastes awful.

54:40

It just tastes like char.

54:41

My friend Steve Rinella, he was in the Amazon with the Yanumami.

54:44

Yeah.

54:45

And he said that that's their preferred food, that they like that above

54:48

everything.

54:49

Yeah.

54:49

Yeah.

54:50

And I, and I see no, I see no conflict between, you know, we're trying to

54:54

protect the ecosystem

54:56

and save the monkeys.

54:57

And I love the monkeys and I've rescued a lot of them personally.

55:00

But again, when you're, when you're in Rome.

55:02

Right.

55:03

You know, if you don't eat with them, they go that gringo, you know, they think

55:06

that

55:06

they're, whereas they're like, oh, you're one of us.

55:09

Right.

55:09

You have to, you know, you show them, you know, how, you know, little, little

55:13

things or

55:14

must be chewy as fuck, right?

55:15

No, it's, it's, it's kind of smooth.

55:17

It's kind of like, if it's well cooked, it's kind of like mutton.

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55:58

It's gamey.

56:00

So you have to slow cook it, long cook it?

56:02

Is that what it is?

56:03

Ideally, yes.

56:04

But a lot of times it's just, they tie it to a cross.

56:06

It's like it's a little monkey Jesus and they throw it on the fire.

56:09

Yeah.

56:10

When I saw them cook it, they singed the outside.

56:13

They singed all the hair off.

56:15

And then they cooked it.

56:17

I think they cooked it inside bananas.

56:19

See if you can find Steve Ranella eats a monkey.

56:27

I think they, and then they boiled some of it in like a soup.

56:31

I don't enjoy boiled meat.

56:34

I'm never excited by boiled meat.

56:36

But stew, right?

56:37

Isn't stew kind of?

56:38

Beef barley stew is good.

56:39

Yeah, I mean, if you, if you sear it first and then you, I mean, it's kind of a

56:43

boiled.

56:44

If you sear it first, right?

56:46

Because like just boiled chicken to me, just like a white, like.

56:49

Just eating it.

56:50

Yeah, so here he's just eating chunks of it.

56:52

Yeah, see like they're like having a really good time.

56:53

Yeah, initially he was like, I'm not doing that.

56:56

Yeah.

56:56

And then once they started doing it, he was like, okay.

56:58

He said it tasted like smoked turkey.

57:01

Yeah.

57:02

My boy Giannis.

57:04

Yeah, it is, it's interesting because if you live there, like my friend David

57:09

Cho, he

57:10

was in Africa and he hunted with the Hadza and they eat baboons.

57:15

And he said one of the craziest things is when you hit the baboon with an arrow,

57:19

they grab

57:20

it like a person.

57:22

Yeah.

57:22

Like if a person gets shot with an arrow and he's like, dude, it's fucked.

57:26

Yikes.

57:26

Yeah.

57:27

But that's what they eat.

57:29

They don't have a lot of food.

57:31

And, you know, it's like you were saying also when they don't have a sense of

57:35

wildlife

57:36

conservation.

57:36

It's not like, hey, we have an accurate assessment of how many baboons are here

57:42

or how many deer

57:43

are here or dikers or whatever the animal is that they're hunting.

57:45

They just eat whatever they can.

57:47

And sometimes they eat them almost to extinction and then they have to move on

57:50

to baboons.

57:51

And baboons were like the only thing that was left.

57:53

And there's also like other people have encroached in settlements and, you know.

57:58

That's the way my guys, because we have a lot of wildlife in our region and

58:02

people from

58:03

other regions will come as loggers and they'll go, oh my God, my dad told me

58:07

that it used

58:07

to be like this where we were.

58:09

And now we have people from other watersheds in the Amazon, like, you know, 150

58:13

miles away

58:14

coming to us and they're going, can you guys bring jungle keepers over?

58:17

And they don't understand, you know, we're killing ourselves just to protect

58:19

this river.

58:20

And they're going, can you do this where we are?

58:22

They're like, we have no more food because they don't have any regulation on

58:26

this.

58:26

And so what we're doing with the tribes in our area is just teaching this basic

58:29

thing

58:30

of like, you know, don't hunt, you know, at these times of year when they're

58:33

having their

58:34

babies.

58:34

Right.

58:35

Don't overhunt.

58:36

Monitor how many monkeys you're bringing into the, into the, into the village.

58:40

And so we're trying to develop this with them where if you're going to keep

58:43

eating monkeys,

58:44

do it in a way that they're keep being monkeys.

58:46

Especially once they've gotten firearms.

58:49

Especially once they've gotten firearms.

58:51

The, the, one of the older guys said to me, he goes, man, it's so sad.

58:54

He goes, we grew up.

58:55

He goes, you could just pull fish out of the river and there was monkeys in the

58:58

trees and

58:59

there was turtles.

58:59

He goes, you could eat whatever you wanted out of the forest.

59:01

He goes, now he goes, we're eating sparrows.

59:03

And he was like, we've just, we've eaten everything down to the smallest birds.

59:07

He was like, it's just destroyed.

59:10

And it was where he is, is like something was like Cormac McCarthy's nightmare.

59:14

If Cormac McCarthy was still alive, I would show him the, the, the, I went to a

59:18

part of

59:19

the Amazon that, that really no one goes to up this horrible river.

59:23

And, and the, they were recently contacted, uncontacted people, just, just this

59:30

tribe that

59:31

had just come out of the forest and they still had their bows and they had no

59:34

idea.

59:34

Me and JJ went for like a three week expedition, plane to plane to plane to

59:39

three days on a boat

59:40

to two days on a boat to finally reaching this last settlement.

59:43

And the missionaries had pulled this tribe out of the forest.

59:47

They'd tricked them.

59:47

They said, just come with us for a ride.

59:49

They pulled them out.

59:50

But then they said, well, if you want to go back, you got to pay for your

59:52

gasoline.

59:53

And the tribe was like, well, how do we pay with what?

59:55

And they were like money.

59:56

And the tribe was like, what's that?

59:58

And where do we get it?

59:58

And so these little people were standing, these were not tall people like the

1:00:01

Mashko Puro.

1:00:02

These were little tiny people and they were standing there with their bows.

1:00:05

And so we showed up with our tents and our gear and we were trying to go up

1:00:09

this river

1:00:09

and our boat and these little people came up to us and they were like, they're

1:00:12

making the

1:00:13

gesture for food.

1:00:14

And so there's some loggers over there.

1:00:17

And so JJ just didn't think.

1:00:19

And he was like, you want some food?

1:00:21

You got to go pay for it.

1:00:22

He was like, money.

1:00:23

And he threw a guy.

1:00:24

He was translating.

1:00:25

And these people are going, but we don't have any money.

1:00:27

And JJ took some coins out of his pocket and was like, just go buy some bread.

1:00:30

And he gave him some coins.

1:00:31

And they went and they tried it.

1:00:32

And they got some bread.

1:00:34

And then all of a sudden there was 50 of them coming at us and they were

1:00:38

surrounding JJ

1:00:39

and they were grabbing at him.

1:00:40

And they were like, he's the guy with these tokens that allow us to eat.

1:00:43

And we had to get out of there because it was causing a problem.

1:00:46

Oh, wow.

1:00:47

But I mean, these people think they're with their bows and arrows and there's

1:00:50

no more

1:00:51

animals to hunt.

1:00:51

And no one's going to give them money.

1:00:53

And they live at the edge of the world.

1:00:55

And they're probably tiny because they don't have any protein.

1:00:57

Yeah.

1:00:58

It was horrifying.

1:01:00

It was one of the worst things I've ever, I've seen poverty all over the world.

1:01:03

This was, uh, again, a hunter gatherer tribe with no food, with no food and no

1:01:10

way of getting

1:01:10

back to forest where they could be a hunter gatherer tribe.

1:01:13

Now they were in this, in this wasteland where the loggers and the gold miners

1:01:16

and the oil

1:01:17

companies, there was, there was even, there was even a barge with oil.

1:01:20

And it was like, this is where the Amazon is being eaten.

1:01:23

And it was out of sight.

1:01:24

You have to go for days just to get there.

1:01:26

There's no foreigners there.

1:01:27

Actually, they did say, we were talking to one logger and he said, it was, you

1:01:31

know,

1:01:31

a few years ago, he goes, there was a, we saw some rafts coming down river and

1:01:35

then they

1:01:36

stopped at this beach up river and they, they, they made camp.

1:01:39

And he's like, so we all talked about it.

1:01:41

And we said, well, we have a feeling they're organ harvesters.

1:01:44

And they, they were scared of these, of these incomers.

1:01:47

Right.

1:01:48

The organ harvesters visit the Amazon?

1:01:50

No.

1:01:51

And so, but that's what they were, they're sitting around the campfire and

1:01:54

someone was

1:01:54

like, what if they're organ harvesters?

1:01:56

Why would they think that?

1:01:57

I don't know.

1:01:58

That must be a thing that gets, I don't know.

1:02:01

But, but the dude I was sitting with told me, he goes, you know, we got real

1:02:05

scared sitting

1:02:06

around the campfire.

1:02:06

Everyone was telling these stories.

1:02:08

And he's like, so we figured the safest thing would be to go kill them.

1:02:12

So they went and they killed them.

1:02:13

And they were a couple of European like hikers on a mega expedition in the

1:02:18

Amazon.

1:02:19

And they just got murdered by the locals preemptively in case they were

1:02:22

dangerous.

1:02:23

Oh, God.

1:02:23

And this dude was like, yeah, we fucked up.

1:02:25

Oh, man.

1:02:26

And I'm talking to him.

1:02:27

I was like, so who did the killing?

1:02:29

Was it, you know, I was like, shit, man.

1:02:32

But I mean, this place was dark.

1:02:35

You know, in the next book I write, I'm going to have to do a deep dive into

1:02:39

this one because

1:02:40

it was just, it was, it was heavy.

1:02:43

And we also, we knew we, for the first time, you know, when you're in the

1:02:46

jungle, we're like,

1:02:47

we're safe.

1:02:47

This place, it was like, people are looking at you and they're like, that's a

1:02:50

jacket

1:02:50

and a watch, you know, like a camera and a tent and a pack raft.

1:02:55

They're like, you, they're like, if we killed him, we'd get all kinds of stuff.

1:02:58

They're looking at you like, man, that's a, that's a lot of opportunity.

1:03:01

And you could just see them being like, well, let's separate him from the herd.

1:03:04

Oh.

1:03:05

Yeah, it was rough.

1:03:06

It's like, you think like the cowboy days, like when it was really wild, like

1:03:09

blood meridian.

1:03:10

Well, not only that, but there's probably a ton of stories about people that

1:03:13

have come

1:03:14

down and done horrible things.

1:03:15

So it's not like you're thinking like, these are wonderful people that come to

1:03:18

give us plantains.

1:03:20

No, you're thinking these are the type of people that would do horrible things

1:03:24

to us.

1:03:24

Yeah.

1:03:25

So we have an opportunity to get something from them and pure desperation, pure

1:03:29

desperation.

1:03:30

And so like the, the communities that I've worked with in my region of the

1:03:34

Amazon, they're

1:03:36

all, you know, you show, I've showed up on a pack raft and been like, Hey, and

1:03:39

they're

1:03:39

like, where'd you come from?

1:03:40

And I'm like, I'm just this foreigner who does work here.

1:03:43

And I talked to them and they're like, Oh, camp here.

1:03:45

You'll be safe.

1:03:46

They're really nice.

1:03:47

They're caring.

1:03:48

They're families.

1:03:49

This place that we were at was this outpost and it was all extractors.

1:03:53

It was all gold miners, petroleum people, loggers.

1:03:57

And it was like all the men who were in the dark bit, the black market people

1:04:01

were all

1:04:02

in the same place.

1:04:03

So there was like a brothel.

1:04:04

There was these displaced natives.

1:04:06

And then there was like this one really scary missionary.

1:04:09

This man looked insane.

1:04:11

He had crazy eyes and he wouldn't come anywhere near us.

1:04:14

From where?

1:04:15

Where is he from?

1:04:16

I couldn't, I couldn't tell where he was from, but he was dressed in the robes.

1:04:19

It was like the mission, except he was evil.

1:04:22

Like you could tell he, you could tell he looked at us and just vanished and he

1:04:26

had this

1:04:27

little settlement that he had cleared and he was bringing his children in and

1:04:30

pulling them

1:04:31

out of the forest.

1:04:32

Was he a white guy?

1:04:32

He looked like a white guy, but it was hard to tell.

1:04:35

He had, you know, he looked like Rasputin.

1:04:38

Oh, wow.

1:04:39

And these poor people are sitting there and you could see them like they were

1:04:42

all like

1:04:42

breastfeeding their babies and like, like trying to eat rats.

1:04:46

And like, it was just, we stayed there for one night and we all, we didn't

1:04:48

sleep.

1:04:49

We slept back to back.

1:04:50

We were just in our tent, just awake all night.

1:04:53

And then the next day we got in the boat and we kept going further up river and

1:04:56

we finally

1:04:56

made it into the, into past the edge of human civilization into, into just uncharted

1:05:01

jungle.

1:05:01

But it was really dark.

1:05:04

And so at least where we are, it's like, we're, we're working with these tribes

1:05:09

to make their

1:05:10

lives better, to educate them.

1:05:11

And there's this feeling, there's this good feeling.

1:05:13

We have jungle keeper shirts.

1:05:14

I mean, now we're on the river and we see jungle keepers boats going by where

1:05:18

we had gold

1:05:18

miners just a few, just a few weeks ago.

1:05:21

We had gold miners.

1:05:21

Everyone, the whole team was calling each other.

1:05:23

We sent our, we sent our ranger team out there.

1:05:26

We brought the police.

1:05:27

They arrested the gold miners.

1:05:29

They brought them to town.

1:05:30

They offered them jobs and they said, you just can't be doing that here.

1:05:33

And so they only cleared like half an acre of forest and then we got them.

1:05:37

So they didn't destroy anything.

1:05:38

And so that's how we're keeping the river.

1:05:39

But someone hired them to mine gold, right?

1:05:41

So that's the thing.

1:05:42

No one hires them.

1:05:44

They, they get it in their head.

1:05:45

They go, you know, Hey, to their cousin, they're, you know, they'll go, why don't

1:05:50

we go make

1:05:51

some money?

1:05:51

Let's go up there and see if there's gold.

1:05:53

And they'll launch a little expedition.

1:05:54

They'll bring like a 16 horsepower motor and go for three days and they'll,

1:05:59

they'll sneak

1:06:00

past us on.

1:06:00

I mean, now the government's getting involved because we've been having the

1:06:03

success.

1:06:03

We're going to get a park guard station on our river.

1:06:05

So we're not going to have this problem, but they'll go up the river and they'll

1:06:10

just

1:06:10

set up and they'll, you know, they'll start panning and they'll go, I see this

1:06:13

little

1:06:13

flake here.

1:06:14

And they're like, cool, let's burn some forest and then we'll start sucking it

1:06:17

up.

1:06:17

We'll run it through the big motor and they, they'll bring their wives and

1:06:20

their kids.

1:06:20

And it's artisanal.

1:06:22

They're very, and so what they do is they get the gold and then they have to

1:06:25

take it

1:06:26

in their little boat back to the town.

1:06:27

And then here's the problem.

1:06:29

There's one store where you go to sell the gold and guess who's waiting outside

1:06:33

that

1:06:33

store?

1:06:33

The people that rob you at gunpoint and take your gold and then give it to the

1:06:37

actual

1:06:38

people.

1:06:38

And so it's, it's really sad artisanal gold mining.

1:06:41

They're not organized.

1:06:43

And it's the same with the narcos.

1:06:44

We've been having a problem with narcos and everyone's like, dude, you can't

1:06:48

mess with

1:06:48

the narcos.

1:06:48

Like you're going to lose the fight.

1:06:50

And it's like, yeah, but these are, these are people that are like, we're just

1:06:54

going to

1:06:54

grow a little bit and then try and sell it.

1:06:57

Coca there.

1:06:58

I mean, we busted, we helped the police bust a, a, we saw a clearing on deep,

1:07:06

deep, deep,

1:07:07

deep, way up river, days up river.

1:07:09

There was a clearing out in the jungle.

1:07:11

And so we sent our rangers.

1:07:12

The rangers came back and we're like, we can't deal with this.

1:07:14

There's something scary going on up there.

1:07:16

And so we told the police and the police were like, yeah, we'll try and get up

1:07:19

there.

1:07:19

Now at the same time, I'm with JJ one day and we always do the same thing when

1:07:23

there's,

1:07:24

there was a, there was a bad patch of deforestation along the river.

1:07:28

And we said, how the hell did this happen?

1:07:30

They did it so quick.

1:07:30

And so I put up the drone and I flew it over and I'm so going, who, you know,

1:07:35

who are these

1:07:36

people?

1:07:36

Are they loggers?

1:07:37

We're just trying to get a sense of what's going on.

1:07:38

Fly the drone down.

1:07:40

And usually when we see loggers, they'll run into these little palm thatched huts.

1:07:43

They'll run into them to hide from the drone.

1:07:46

That's crazy.

1:07:47

They know what a drone is.

1:07:49

Well, these people came running out and they had guns and we had already on the

1:07:54

river.

1:07:54

We had passed their settlement and flown the drone back.

1:07:57

Their boat came out after us and we started going and I was like, JJ, you could

1:08:02

just talk

1:08:02

to them like normal.

1:08:03

And he looked at me and he went, not this time.

1:08:06

And we had a, we had a 60 horsepower and they had a 40 and we were just blazing

1:08:11

ahead of

1:08:11

them and I had the drone in the air.

1:08:12

And so it was $5,000 drone.

1:08:15

And so I'm driving the drone and I was like, can we, can we like, I got to get

1:08:19

this drone

1:08:19

and they were like, we, JJ looked at me, he's like, we're not stopping.

1:08:22

And it dawned on me that it was like, we're, we're, if we get caught, we're

1:08:26

getting killed.

1:08:26

Oh man.

1:08:28

And we arrived at our, at this point, nobody on the boat had a gun.

1:08:32

And so we arrived at a place where the police were camped out, where the guard,

1:08:38

they had

1:08:38

been dispatched to go check out that other site.

1:08:40

And so we arrived and the police force that we work with was there and we

1:08:44

pulled up and

1:08:45

we're like, yo, we got bad guys coming in and they, they masked up, loaded up.

1:08:50

They got on our boat.

1:08:51

We turned around and then as soon as they saw us coming back at them, they left.

1:08:55

And then days later, they went to that same police force and assassinated one

1:08:59

of the guys.

1:09:00

Oh man.

1:09:02

So the narcos are different.

1:09:03

The narcos are scary.

1:09:05

And that clearing that we originally found, they were actually predated sacks

1:09:09

of white powder.

1:09:10

The Peruvian military went in and actually raided that camp, arrested everybody.

1:09:15

It was so big that the American DEA knew about it.

1:09:18

They were notified.

1:09:19

And so this is now what's happening on this river where it's because it's the

1:09:23

last wilderness,

1:09:24

they're coming.

1:09:26

And so we're, we're, we're trying to, you know, we're relying on the Peruvian

1:09:30

authorities

1:09:30

to stop this from happening so that we can create this park before it's too

1:09:33

late.

1:09:34

Cause they're also blazing roads.

1:09:35

They're bringing in loggers.

1:09:36

They're smart.

1:09:37

They bring people and they'll send the loggers ahead of them.

1:09:40

And then when the loggers clear the land, they'll just start growing coca.

1:09:42

And so it's gotten, it's gotten scary.

1:09:46

I texted you when it was at its, uh, when I first started having to travel with

1:09:50

security.

1:09:51

Um, I remember texting you because I was like, this is, this is a different

1:09:56

game.

1:09:57

You know, it used to be like, we're, we're counting the butterflies and we're.

1:10:00

Yeah.

1:10:00

You wanted to learn where to train.

1:10:02

Yeah.

1:10:03

Yeah.

1:10:03

Yeah.

1:10:04

Cause it's scary walking around.

1:10:06

Well, the thing is the, the police intercepted off the one of the people that

1:10:09

they arrested

1:10:09

on the phone.

1:10:11

It said, if you see JJ or that shithead gringo that flies the drone, they said,

1:10:16

if you kill

1:10:16

them, we'll reward you.

1:10:17

Oh man.

1:10:19

So they found this message on WhatsApp.

1:10:21

They showed it to us and they were like, you guys have a hit on you.

1:10:23

And then a few days later, they, they, JJ was supposed to get in the car at the

1:10:29

side of,

1:10:30

you know, you take the boat down river to the car and he was supposed to get in

1:10:34

the car

1:10:34

and go back to the town.

1:10:35

He actually came down river in the boat and then went, I forgot, I forgot that

1:10:40

I wanted

1:10:40

to finish up something at the station.

1:10:41

Take me back.

1:10:42

He went back to the station.

1:10:43

So our driver, Percy started driving back along this little dirt logging road

1:10:48

by himself

1:10:48

and they had trees across the road, masked guys with guns.

1:10:53

They put the guns in the windows.

1:10:54

They pulled him out and our windows are tinted.

1:10:57

And they said, take JJ and Paul out.

1:10:58

They were going to do it.

1:11:00

And so it just so happened that JJ wasn't in the car.

1:11:05

Just by pure luck.

1:11:08

He was not in the car that day.

1:11:11

And they roughed up our driver.

1:11:12

They took his driver's license.

1:11:13

They took his cell phone.

1:11:16

And they just said, just let them know.

1:11:18

We missed him today, but we'll get him soon.

1:11:19

Oh man.

1:11:22

And so we went, of course, we went to the police and we're like, look, we're

1:11:25

going to need

1:11:25

a lot more protection.

1:11:26

They're like, it's getting, I mean, we're just trying to save the rainforest,

1:11:30

man.

1:11:30

Like we're not trying to, and these people are going, well, we're just trying

1:11:34

to grow drugs.

1:11:35

And we want to do that where there's no police.

1:11:37

And the wilderness is only, the wilderness is becoming a finite thing now.

1:11:42

So it's becoming this battle, battleground.

1:11:44

Jamie, on there is a map.

1:11:46

I'm wondering if you could pull up the map because I could explain to you.

1:11:49

What's the status of this right now?

1:11:51

Are they still after you guys?

1:11:52

They are still after us, but it's been, for about eight months, it was really

1:11:57

bad.

1:11:58

It was really scary.

1:12:00

It was horrible.

1:12:01

Like every day, anytime JJ called me, I'd have a panic attack.

1:12:05

But you see the yellow on the right is the Trans-Amazon Highway.

1:12:09

That's the big, that's the big artery.

1:12:11

That's what the Chinese and Brazil built.

1:12:12

But then that smaller thing going up, that's the roads that the loggers and the

1:12:19

narcos are making.

1:12:19

And so that big red arrow, they're trying to make a road that goes in through

1:12:23

there.

1:12:23

And so the white line outlines what we're trying to protect.

1:12:27

And that light greenish blue is the area that we have protected.

1:12:31

That's that 130,000 acres that we have protected.

1:12:34

And so that's what we're doing right now.

1:12:37

It's a race against time.

1:12:38

If we can fill in that area, if we can fill that whole thing in, we save the

1:12:42

land.

1:12:43

And once it's ours, once it's under Jungle Keeper's protection, it's indigenous

1:12:46

protected.

1:12:46

All right, we're back.

1:12:47

Yeah.

1:12:48

So where are they growing the drugs in this map?

1:12:52

So right at the upper tip of that arrow, sort of the outside, they had cut a

1:12:56

little road filament into there.

1:12:58

And again, these little tiny trail roads, they go under the forest.

1:13:02

The forest is 160 feet tall.

1:13:03

Is there a way you can communicate with these guys saying you're not trying to

1:13:06

stop this?

1:13:08

I mean, right now what we're doing is putting signs on all of these little tiny,

1:13:12

I mean, these are jungle roads where just to go on the road, you're going out

1:13:15

to where, you know, if anybody finds you out there, they'll just kill you.

1:13:19

And your body will be decomposed and recycled within 48 hours by the jungle.

1:13:23

So you're past where there's police.

1:13:26

This is just earth.

1:13:27

It's the Wild West.

1:13:28

More than the Wild West, right?

1:13:30

Because the Wild West was never this dense.

1:13:32

Well, it's the Wild West and you can't see 10 feet in front of you.

1:13:36

Right.

1:13:36

That's what I'm talking about.

1:13:37

This is more wild than the Wild West.

1:13:39

I guess so.

1:13:40

Yeah.

1:13:40

And you still have, you have Indians with arrows and now you have these narcos

1:13:44

that are straight up evil that are coming.

1:13:46

I mean, they're taking girls from indigenous communities to work in their brothels.

1:13:50

They're growing cocaine.

1:13:51

They have brothels up there?

1:13:53

You got men working out in the jungle.

1:13:54

And so they go to the communities and they tell them, hey, your daughter is

1:13:58

very pretty.

1:13:58

She'd be a great waitress.

1:13:59

You know, we can educate her while she trains and helps people.

1:14:02

And then they never see him again.

1:14:05

And so it's all that darkness.

1:14:07

And at the same time, what we're doing is bettering the lives of the community,

1:14:12

making friends with these people.

1:14:14

We have these amazing rangers.

1:14:15

And I mean, we have different ranger stations along the river.

1:14:18

And if we make this into a park like Teddy Roosevelt.

1:14:22

No, John Muir took Teddy Roosevelt on a three-day camping trip and showed him Yosemite

1:14:26

and like Sequoia and all this stuff.

1:14:27

And he was like, we got to protect this.

1:14:29

Like, it's special here.

1:14:31

Look at the size of these trees.

1:14:32

Look at the beauty of this valley.

1:14:33

And then they protected it.

1:14:34

There's nothing as wild as this river on earth today.

1:14:39

And so if we protect this now, the 200 indigenous people that live on this

1:14:44

river get protected from the narcos.

1:14:46

They continue having abundant fish and resources.

1:14:50

And then they'll work as park guards and educators and chefs and boat drivers

1:14:54

to maintain this gigantic protected area.

1:14:57

And then Peru will have this crown jewel of the Amazon.

1:15:00

So they love it.

1:15:02

But how can you protect them from the narcos?

1:15:03

I mean, it seems like the amount of money that's involved in trafficking

1:15:08

cocaine would make it a real problem.

1:15:10

But the good thing is that these are the little artisanal ones.

1:15:13

These are the guys that go.

1:15:15

These are not like mafia bosses.

1:15:16

This isn't like the Mexican cartel.

1:15:18

These are like these little clans of people that go, you know what?

1:15:21

We could just grow some cocaine and then we'll sell it to the big guys.

1:15:25

And so they're just – they're like mom and pop cocaine growers.

1:15:29

But they're also murderers.

1:15:31

Well, of course.

1:15:31

And so when the cops go out there, the cops just arrest them and take them

1:15:35

straight to jail.

1:15:36

And so the cops have been – everyone assumes that Latin American police, no

1:15:39

matter what, are going to be corrupt.

1:15:41

And like the police force we've been working with has been keeping us alive.

1:15:45

And they want this park protected as much as the indigenous people do.

1:15:49

It's amazing how many good people are out there.

1:15:52

They're actually helping.

1:15:54

And how many narco organizations, artisanal narco organizations are out there?

1:16:00

Peru has become – it's not great.

1:16:04

Peru I think has become, if not on the same level as Colombia, I think they

1:16:08

might have surpassed Colombia in terms of cocaine production.

1:16:11

They're not doing great with that right now.

1:16:14

And so we're at this very, very crucial juncture there.

1:16:18

But, you know, it's funny because in doing all this, you know, with – even

1:16:22

with the book coming out and I've been talking to people and people go, well,

1:16:26

you have narcos now.

1:16:27

They're like, so you're going to fail.

1:16:28

And it's like, man, you're not even the one on the ground.

1:16:31

Like I'm the one on the ground.

1:16:32

I'm telling you we're not going to fail.

1:16:34

And the police have been successful at clearing them out.

1:16:37

And it's getting better.

1:16:38

Just like the whole thing with, yeah, the Amazon is disappearing, but we can

1:16:41

still stop it.

1:16:42

It's like you got to – you think like before D-Day if Churchill was like, oh,

1:16:45

we'll probably lose.

1:16:46

Like you can't have that mentality.

1:16:50

And so it's very, very encouraging seeing the local people stand up for what

1:16:55

they believe in.

1:16:56

And the job is dangerous.

1:16:58

There's a video on there that I think it says Sandra Tree Crush.

1:17:03

But we – I got woke up a few weeks ago and one of my managers came running at

1:17:09

like 3 a.m.

1:17:10

I see a flashlight coming through the jungle.

1:17:13

And so I'm thinking the worst.

1:17:16

And then he comes.

1:17:17

He's going, Paul.

1:17:17

He goes, a tree.

1:17:19

And I told you the last time I was on here, I said the most dangerous thing in

1:17:21

the rainforest is the trees falling.

1:17:23

He said a tree fell on the ranger station.

1:17:25

And it's raining.

1:17:27

And I'm talking about rain.

1:17:28

You know when you're at the airport and you hear that sound where it's like

1:17:30

there's no sound louder.

1:17:31

Your ears can't handle it.

1:17:32

It was raining so loud.

1:17:33

And he's screaming into my ear that this tree fell on the ranger station.

1:17:37

He goes, and one of the rangers was crushed.

1:17:41

And I'm going, but dead or alive?

1:17:43

And he goes, we don't know yet.

1:17:44

And so it's 3 a.m.

1:17:46

And we get in this boat and we're going upriver and there's lightning flashing

1:17:49

and there's rain falling.

1:17:50

And I'm looking with the flashlight and I'm navigating by the crocodile eyes

1:17:53

because we don't know where the edges of the river are because they, you know,

1:17:56

the eye shine.

1:17:59

And so we have footage of this and we arrive at the ranger station.

1:18:02

And sure enough, this tree had fallen, crushed the roof, all the beams and all

1:18:08

the scaffolding under the roof and fallen on this woman's face while she was in

1:18:12

bed.

1:18:13

And so she was crushed under this and she couldn't even scream because it was

1:18:16

raining so loud.

1:18:17

And so we get there and I stick my hand into the rubble and I hold her hand and

1:18:22

I'm like, are you okay?

1:18:23

And she was like, hey, Paul.

1:18:25

She's like, I have no idea.

1:18:26

And she was amazingly like, like buoyant.

1:18:29

She was like, I have no idea if I'm okay.

1:18:31

She's like, but I'm alive.

1:18:32

I was like, we're going to get you out of here.

1:18:33

And we started chainsawing, I mean, like 16 feet of tree debris over her and

1:18:37

all this gnarled roof material.

1:18:39

And we had to pull her out of there and she had a scratch on her ankle.

1:18:42

Wow.

1:18:43

We've got this great video of her sitting in a hammock at like 6 a.m.

1:18:46

And she's smoking a cigarette.

1:18:47

She's like, I'm alive.

1:18:48

She's going, I'm alive.

1:18:50

And she didn't quit.

1:18:52

She's still a ranger.

1:18:53

And it's like, she's out there right now driving up and down because she wants

1:18:56

that forest protected for her kids.

1:18:58

And it's like, these people care.

1:19:00

It sounds like the adventure of this is very addictive to you.

1:19:05

This is what I'm getting.

1:19:07

I think you love it.

1:19:09

I think you love the forest.

1:19:10

Yeah.

1:19:11

I think you love protecting it.

1:19:13

But I think there's something about the danger of it and the chaos and the wildness

1:19:18

of it all that seems to me, I'm looking at your eyes.

1:19:22

You're smiling because you know I'm right.

1:19:24

I know, yeah.

1:19:25

I'm not going to deny that.

1:19:27

When I was a kid, I remember sitting in school and being like, why did, like

1:19:31

you read about like Roosevelt and Jane Goodall and like these people had these

1:19:35

amazingly adventurous lives.

1:19:37

And I was sitting in school getting detention after detention and getting

1:19:40

yelled at and being like, can I go to the bathroom?

1:19:43

And I was like, why do they get to do that?

1:19:44

And I have to do this.

1:19:45

And they're like, you know, everyone around me was like, you know, when you get

1:19:48

a job, then you're really going to love your desk.

1:19:50

One of my friend's mom said that to me.

1:19:51

She goes, you think you hate your school desk?

1:19:54

She goes, wait till you get your real desk.

1:19:56

And I was like, oh, man.

1:19:57

And so, yeah, riding on the boat at 4 a.m. with the lightning is incredible.

1:20:04

Showering in the river.

1:20:05

Navigating by crocodile eyes.

1:20:06

Yeah, man.

1:20:07

I mean, with the wind in your hair and the feel.

1:20:10

I mean, you know the magic of the mountains.

1:20:12

Yeah.

1:20:12

And the jungle has its own vibe.

1:20:14

You watch that mist snarling up off the canopy and it's like, it's so wild that

1:20:20

you just, you feel better.

1:20:22

You feel healthier.

1:20:23

And, again, you know, that whole thing of, what's that thing they say, like a

1:20:27

sacrament is an outward sign of an inward grace.

1:20:29

And it's like the beauty of that, you know, you drink from the river and then

1:20:33

you sweat it out and you watch your sweat join the steam and rain back down

1:20:37

onto the jungle.

1:20:38

You are connected to your environment.

1:20:40

And every single day you don't know what's going to happen.

1:20:42

You know, I opened.

1:20:44

There was one day where I was like, OK, I'm going to stay on the station.

1:20:48

I'm not going to do anything.

1:20:50

I've been hammering myself in the swamps for a week.

1:20:53

And I was like, I'm just going to, like, drink coffee and, like, do office work

1:20:56

on my computer.

1:20:57

And so I was, like, at the station.

1:20:58

And my team comes running.

1:20:59

And they're like, anaconda.

1:21:00

And I was like, where?

1:21:01

I was actually, like, annoyed.

1:21:03

I was like, where?

1:21:03

How big of an anaconda?

1:21:05

And they're like, no, it's a pretty big anaconda.

1:21:07

As we go down to the thing.

1:21:08

And sure enough, there's a big-ass anaconda on a log.

1:21:12

They were, like, 11 feet.

1:21:13

You know, not a monster.

1:21:14

But so then I started doing this thing where I was like, because they were all

1:21:17

like, be careful.

1:21:18

And I was like, of what?

1:21:19

And they're like, it could bite you.

1:21:21

And I was like, it's asleep.

1:21:22

I was like, she's just trying to get the sun.

1:21:24

So then I started, I took out my phone.

1:21:26

I started doing this thing.

1:21:27

I was like, people are scared of snakes.

1:21:28

And I was like, if you're scared of snakes, I was like, there's an 11-foot anaconda.

1:21:32

I was like, do I appear to be in danger yet?

1:21:35

And then I kept getting closer.

1:21:36

And I was like, how about now?

1:21:37

How about now?

1:21:38

And then I was like, she's not waking up.

1:21:39

So I get on the log with her.

1:21:41

And the anaconda still doesn't get up.

1:21:44

And so I turned around.

1:21:46

And her coil is here.

1:21:48

And her head's, like, you know, 10 feet over there.

1:21:50

And I just put my head on her.

1:21:52

And now I'm laying on the snake.

1:21:54

And I'm still taking a video.

1:21:55

And I'm going, see, this snake doesn't care that I'm here.

1:21:58

And even if she wakes up, you know what she's going to do?

1:22:00

She's going to jump in the water.

1:22:01

She's not going to bite me.

1:22:03

And she never woke up.

1:22:04

And I figured, you know what?

1:22:05

Why bother her?

1:22:06

She never woke up when you rested your head?

1:22:09

She woke up.

1:22:09

She moved her tongue.

1:22:11

But she never freaked out.

1:22:13

Well, they're the king.

1:22:15

It sounds like they don't really have any natural predators, right?

1:22:20

Do they?

1:22:21

When they're small.

1:22:22

When they're small.

1:22:23

Crocodiles, right?

1:22:24

The crocodiles, the herons, the piranha.

1:22:27

Oh, right.

1:22:27

You forget that, like, pelicans and herons can eat, like, a baby alligator.

1:22:31

They'll just, like, throw it back.

1:22:33

Sure.

1:22:33

Just take it down their throat.

1:22:35

And the herons are crazy.

1:22:38

Herons are amazing hunters.

1:22:40

Pelicans are disgusting.

1:22:42

The way they'll take, like, a whole bullfrog and just glut it down.

1:22:45

So you know that thing's, like, alive in their chest.

1:22:47

I've seen videos of them doing it to pigeons or seagulls.

1:22:51

Yes.

1:22:51

The one where you swallow the seagull.

1:22:53

Hole.

1:22:53

And the seagull's, like, getting smaller as it goes down.

1:22:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:22:57

And you realize, like, that crazy mouth that they have is just so they can

1:23:02

swallow things alive.

1:23:03

Yeah.

1:23:04

I mean, this weird-looking, funky thing.

1:23:06

You're like, oh, that's a monster.

1:23:08

Yeah.

1:23:08

That's a monster that just swallows things alive.

1:23:11

Yeah.

1:23:11

You don't think of birds as savage as they are.

1:23:14

What are you laughing at, Jamie?

1:23:15

Pictures of pelicans trying to eat shit on the screen.

1:23:17

I'm trying to eat a dog.

1:23:18

Oh.

1:23:19

Oh, God.

1:23:19

Oh, come on.

1:23:20

Marshall.

1:23:21

Marshall, look out.

1:23:22

He's trying to get a cat.

1:23:23

He's trying to eat a cat.

1:23:24

Oh, my God.

1:23:25

Yeah, they basically can eat almost anything that's near their size.

1:23:30

Good Lord.

1:23:32

That one, just fly out.

1:23:34

Wow.

1:23:35

It's too late.

1:23:36

Oh, man.

1:23:38

Yeah, they're monsters.

1:23:39

He's trying to eat another.

1:23:39

God, that's, I call bullshit on that one.

1:23:42

There's no way his pelican was trying to eat a bear.

1:23:44

I believe that, though.

1:23:46

I've seen that video.

1:23:46

What are those things called again?

1:23:48

Those are baby capybaras.

1:23:49

Capybaras, right.

1:23:50

Those are, they've, are those the things that have made their way into, no, it's

1:23:57

a different

1:23:57

animal that's made their way into, like, Louisiana, and they have to go out and

1:24:00

shoot them?

1:24:00

Javelinas.

1:24:01

No, no, no, no, no, no.

1:24:02

It's a type of large rodent, because David Tell used to have a TV show called

1:24:07

Insomniac,

1:24:08

and he went out at night one time with them in Louisiana, and they're hunting

1:24:13

these things

1:24:14

that they're an invasive rodent, a giant rodent.

1:24:17

And it was like, Dave would do his shows, and then after, it was a Comedy

1:24:21

Central show,

1:24:22

it was a really good show.

1:24:23

And then he would find things to do in the town, because he can't sleep,

1:24:25

because he's

1:24:26

up all night.

1:24:27

And so he went out with these people that were, God, I can't remember what the

1:24:31

animal was,

1:24:32

but it's a large invasive rodent that exists in the South.

1:24:37

I mean, nutria.

1:24:38

Nutria.

1:24:38

That's right.

1:24:39

Geez.

1:24:40

Yeah, and people eat them.

1:24:41

Yeah.

1:24:41

Yeah.

1:24:42

I mean, the rodent, I mean, capybaras.

1:24:44

See if you can find that video, because it's kind of crazy.

1:24:47

Nutria.

1:24:47

They're out there hunting them with 22s.

1:24:50

With 22s?

1:24:51

Yeah, I mean, they have to.

1:24:52

They're a completely invasive species, and they're huge.

1:24:56

They're like a small dog.

1:24:58

That's something I left off the list.

1:25:00

We eat those all the time.

1:25:01

Nutria?

1:25:02

We have something called a paca.

1:25:03

It's like a small capybara with spots.

1:25:05

And those, I mean, it's like squirrels.

1:25:09

But they're big.

1:25:09

They're like cat-sized and fat.

1:25:11

People eat them all the time.

1:25:13

Those are delicious.

1:25:14

What's your favorite thing to eat in the jungle?

1:25:16

Piranha.

1:25:18

Piranha?

1:25:18

Fuck yeah.

1:25:19

Really?

1:25:20

Oh, my God.

1:25:21

They're delicious.

1:25:21

And when you fry a piranha, you know, you make the slits along it.

1:25:25

You just fry the whole thing.

1:25:26

You just pull it right off of its skeleton.

1:25:27

And the fins become like chips, like little salty chips.

1:25:32

Oh.

1:25:32

Oh, they're so good.

1:25:33

You just put salt on it and fry it?

1:25:34

And we just a little bit of salt and then fry it up.

1:25:37

And then better than the piranha is the paco, the big vegetarian.

1:25:41

And the piranha species, yeah.

1:25:43

Those are invasive species in America as well.

1:25:46

Yeah.

1:25:47

People catch them all the time.

1:25:48

Oh, they're so good.

1:25:49

Yeah, they catch them and they're like 40 pounds.

1:25:51

They're huge.

1:25:52

Yeah, someone caught a world record paco.

1:25:55

Powerful.

1:25:55

Really powerful.

1:25:56

Paco, P-A-C-U, right?

1:25:57

Yeah, yeah.

1:25:58

I want to say in Georgia, Georgia or Florida, somewhere in there.

1:26:03

And fucking huge.

1:26:04

Yeah.

1:26:05

No, they're powerful.

1:26:06

We fish for them.

1:26:07

You have like a 10-foot pole with a rope on it.

1:26:11

Yeah, there's a paco.

1:26:12

Yeah.

1:26:12

Yeah, look at the size of that thing, man.

1:26:15

That's crazy.

1:26:15

50 pounds.

1:26:16

World record size paco caught in Florida.

1:26:19

There it is.

1:26:19

50 pounds.

1:26:20

That's nuts.

1:26:21

Dude, those are so, they're so nutritious.

1:26:24

When you eat them, you feel like you're just gaining muscle.

1:26:26

Really?

1:26:27

Yeah.

1:26:27

Like, you still eat a lot of elk?

1:26:29

Oh, yeah.

1:26:30

Like, don't you feel like it's like a superfood?

1:26:32

Uh-huh.

1:26:32

Yeah.

1:26:33

This is how I feel.

1:26:34

I live on these things.

1:26:35

Oh, it's wild, yeah.

1:26:35

I feel like I just...

1:26:36

You live on piranha.

1:26:37

Yeah.

1:26:37

Piranha and paco.

1:26:39

Yeah.

1:26:39

Wow.

1:26:40

How do you catch the paco?

1:26:41

10-foot pole.

1:26:42

You have a piece of rope and you put like a piece of like last night's dinner.

1:26:46

You tie a bunch of rancid chicken.

1:26:48

You leave it out in the sun, make it smell bad.

1:26:50

You go out at 6 in the morning.

1:26:52

So they're not vegetarians?

1:26:54

Well, they'll eat anything.

1:26:55

They specialize on the nuts.

1:26:57

That's why they have the human teeth.

1:26:58

Oh.

1:26:59

Those are the ones that have the human teeth.

1:27:00

When you open their mouth, they have like molars and then like a few like front

1:27:04

teeth.

1:27:04

And so we go with this 10-foot pole and nobody can make a sound on the boat.

1:27:08

You're just floating with the river.

1:27:10

You're like invisible.

1:27:10

And you wait for a feature in the river, like a rock or a place where the water's

1:27:15

rushing and you smack it against it because they like that falling fruit or

1:27:19

falling seeds.

1:27:20

And when they hit – I'm talking about like a four-inch hook.

1:27:22

When they hit that hook, this is the thing because you're doing this for –

1:27:26

you're doing it for an hour and you're like, all right, there's no paco in here.

1:27:29

Well, guess what?

1:27:30

When they do hit it, they'll pull you right out of the boat.

1:27:34

I mean, I've been dragged straight across the boat where like you got to use

1:27:36

one hand to stop yourself and the other hand's holding this pole.

1:27:39

And then your friend's got to pull you back.

1:27:41

You get this fish on the thing and it's going boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,

1:27:43

boom, boom, boom, boom.

1:27:44

How big are they?

1:27:45

That you're catching?

1:27:46

When you saw, they're big.

1:27:46

You're catching them that big?

1:27:47

Yeah.

1:27:48

They're huge.

1:27:49

And then you got to have a hammer because you got to shut them off somehow.

1:27:53

Right.

1:27:54

You got to crack them right on – you know, between the eyes because otherwise

1:27:56

they'll just either jump out of the boat or injure someone.

1:27:59

Or destroy everything.

1:27:59

That was the other thing.

1:28:00

We were going upriver a few months ago.

1:28:02

We're at night.

1:28:03

We're all just quiet in the boat and we're going to go up to this tributary to

1:28:06

explore it.

1:28:07

And I had a group of tourists with me and this girl was sitting on the front

1:28:11

and all of a sudden I feel something go past me.

1:28:15

There's something – and all of a sudden I got wet and all of a sudden I hear

1:28:17

ba-bang, ba-bang, ba-bang, ba-bang in the boat.

1:28:19

I'm going, what the fuck is going on?

1:28:21

Turn on my headlamp and there's a Paco in the boat.

1:28:23

And the girl that was sitting on the front, her head is bleeding.

1:28:26

One of those huge-ass Pacos jumped out of the river in the night, hit this girl

1:28:30

in the head, and then fell into the boat.

1:28:33

Whoa.

1:28:33

And so we just grabbed –

1:28:35

Yeah, we just ate it.

1:28:36

But, I mean, that Paco was in the middle of the Amazon at night just jumping

1:28:40

around enjoying itself and it just jumped in the wrong boat.

1:28:44

Wow, wow.

1:28:45

Two-foot fish flying through the air.

1:28:47

And that's your favorite thing to eat.

1:28:49

Absolutely.

1:28:50

What else is really good to eat?

1:28:51

There's these little cup mushrooms that are really good.

1:28:55

You fry them up with garlic.

1:28:56

You do that and Paco, now you're talking good.

1:28:59

My friend Roy is a chef.

1:29:00

He's really – he's one of the jungle – he's the president of Jungle Keepers

1:29:04

right now.

1:29:05

He's a local guy and he focuses on Amazonian cuisine.

1:29:08

And so he goes and he picks all the right flowers and funguses and he'll take

1:29:12

Paco and then he'll flavor it with a type of orchid thing.

1:29:15

And, like, all of a sudden you have this amazing food.

1:29:18

And, like, Lima, they have – you know, Peru's become this amazing place for

1:29:21

food.

1:29:21

Peru is great food.

1:29:23

Wow.

1:29:24

He does the jungle version.

1:29:25

Wow.

1:29:26

So it's not, like, nasty monkey soup.

1:29:28

It's –

1:29:28

Not turtle.

1:29:29

It's the curated, you know, five-star version of jungle cuisine.

1:29:33

So that's number one?

1:29:34

Paco's number one, 100%.

1:29:36

I mean, even right now.

1:29:36

You're a big crocodile?

1:29:37

I think I tried alligator ones, but it didn't leave an impression on me.

1:29:42

I haven't really – also, I feel like they're my friends.

1:29:45

Really?

1:29:45

Yeah.

1:29:46

How so?

1:29:47

Like, I like them.

1:29:49

Just because they're cool?

1:29:50

Well, I mean, I work with them a lot.

1:29:52

I'm always catching caiman.

1:29:53

I always see them on the side of the river.

1:29:54

You know, nobody's serving me.

1:29:56

If they were serving me caiman, then it would be just like the monkey where it's

1:29:59

like, all right, I got to eat it.

1:30:00

But nobody's serving me caiman.

1:30:02

So I'm not going to go.

1:30:02

So that's not a staple of their diet?

1:30:04

No.

1:30:04

In the north, in Iquitos, they eat a lot more caiman.

1:30:08

So you don't see caiman.

1:30:09

On our river, there's still – there's a caiman on every beach.

1:30:12

There's jabby roost dorks.

1:30:14

There's kakoi herons.

1:30:15

There's just macaws everywhere.

1:30:16

It's just – there's just so much life.

1:30:18

It's avatar.

1:30:19

It's just pulsing life.

1:30:21

Wow.

1:30:22

It's incredible.

1:30:23

Did you find that video of David Tell?

1:30:25

No.

1:30:25

It weirdly is, like, not online.

1:30:28

I found a picture of the episode, but not a video of it.

1:30:32

Yeah.

1:30:33

And they're just –

1:30:35

Shooting nutria.

1:30:36

Yeah.

1:30:37

I think they eat them too.

1:30:39

But I can't find it.

1:30:39

Yeah.

1:30:42

And he was actually on the episode just –

1:30:46

Yeah.

1:30:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:30:47

This is a long time ago.

1:30:48

This is back when Dave was drinking.

1:30:50

So this is, like, Dave's been sober for, I want to say, 15 years at least.

1:30:55

Somewhere in that range.

1:30:58

Yeah.

1:30:58

And this is back when, you know, he would just drink at the comedy club and

1:31:02

then stay up all night, smoke cigarettes, drink coffee.

1:31:05

Never end.

1:31:06

Yeah.

1:31:07

I mean, he's the most unhealthy and also the most hilarious guy alive.

1:31:10

You've stopped drinking, right?

1:31:12

I drink a little every now and then now.

1:31:14

I went, like, eight months with no drinking.

1:31:16

And I started having, like, a glass of wine with dinner.

1:31:19

Yeah.

1:31:20

And a cocktail or two.

1:31:21

But I have not had more than, like, two drinks in a night since.

1:31:25

Yeah.

1:31:25

Feels good, doesn't it?

1:31:26

It was a good break.

1:31:28

Yeah.

1:31:29

The eight months, I felt really good.

1:31:30

And I was convinced I was never going to drink again.

1:31:32

And then I drank a glass of wine.

1:31:33

I was like, ooh, I like this.

1:31:34

I miss this.

1:31:35

Well, the wine, that's the one thing.

1:31:36

The wine is good.

1:31:37

Yeah.

1:31:37

Wine with a steak?

1:31:38

Oh, red wine.

1:31:40

Yeah.

1:31:42

A little.

1:31:42

I think it was important to just recognize that I was doing it.

1:31:46

And it wasn't an alcoholic.

1:31:47

I was just, I have a club.

1:31:49

Yeah.

1:31:50

I'm there all the time.

1:31:50

And, you know, you're out with friends.

1:31:52

You want to drink?

1:31:53

Yeah, sure.

1:31:53

Let's have a drink.

1:31:54

Yeah.

1:31:54

Go to dinner.

1:31:55

Have a drink.

1:31:55

Have another drink.

1:31:56

It just got to a point where I was like,

1:31:58

I was feeling like, and I'm too healthy.

1:32:00

I work out all the time.

1:32:01

And I was like, why am I doing this to myself?

1:32:03

Yeah.

1:32:03

You know?

1:32:04

But now I realize, you know, it's a little moderation.

1:32:07

It's not bad.

1:32:08

A little moderation.

1:32:08

But drinking is essentially fun poison.

1:32:12

Fun poison.

1:32:13

Yeah.

1:32:13

It's weird.

1:32:14

After Lex ruined drinking for me.

1:32:16

Lex gets saucy.

1:32:18

Well, this is the thing.

1:32:20

When he came to the Amazon, he goes, I want to do ayahuasca.

1:32:25

And so we called, you know, JJ's oldest brother is 70-something.

1:32:28

We called this shaman in.

1:32:29

And he's like, you know, with the Lex voice, he's like, brother, you have to do

1:32:33

this with me.

1:32:34

And I was like, I am not drinking ayahuasca.

1:32:36

There's a chapter in the book about when I did it with the old master and he

1:32:42

overboiled it.

1:32:43

And we all like saw God in the unit.

1:32:45

We were there for the Big Bang.

1:32:47

It was awful.

1:32:47

Yeah.

1:32:47

Nice.

1:32:48

It was hard.

1:32:48

No.

1:32:48

It was not.

1:32:49

No.

1:32:49

Why?

1:32:50

It was like taking a mega dose.

1:32:51

It was like, sure.

1:32:53

It was awful.

1:32:54

It was traumatic.

1:32:54

You don't like to get scared?

1:32:55

I was terrified, man.

1:32:57

Yeah.

1:32:59

No.

1:32:59

So I was like, I have retired.

1:33:01

I was like, I'm not doing it.

1:33:02

And Lex was walking around in circles for two hours and he comes up to me and

1:33:05

he puts his hand on my shoulder and he goes, I came all the way here for you.

1:33:08

He goes, now you do this for me.

1:33:10

He goes, don't leave me alone in the dark.

1:33:11

And I went, God.

1:33:13

I said, all right, I'll do it.

1:33:15

And we drank right next to each other and the guy's smoking his pipe and, you

1:33:19

know, he has the feathers on and he's singing to us and you're drinking and you're

1:33:23

going deeper and deeper into the hole.

1:33:25

And God, it was interesting, though.

1:33:28

We both, the shaman said that, you know, he was talking about what Lex was

1:33:33

going afterwards.

1:33:34

He was talking about what Lex was going through on his journey.

1:33:36

And he goes in and does this deep work of the things he sees coming off of you.

1:33:40

And this is a guy, the shaman, I've known for 20 years.

1:33:44

He's like my uncle.

1:33:45

And so he would come up to me and he'd go, I'd be laying down.

1:33:49

You can't, you can't get up.

1:33:51

And he'd come up to me and he'd go, one more cup.

1:33:52

And I'd be like, sure.

1:33:55

Like, why not?

1:33:57

And he'd like give me like a kiss on the forehead and throw it down my throat.

1:34:01

And then he'd go to Lex and go, one more cup.

1:34:03

And Lex would be like, yes.

1:34:04

And then, you know, give it to Lex.

1:34:06

And he said that, he said that he wasn't worried about my spirit.

1:34:09

He said, I was, I was there to protect Lex.

1:34:12

And he said, Lex was there to, to, to do some real work.

1:34:16

And so what's interesting is that we both reached this sort of, we, we both

1:34:19

reached the pinnacle of, of, of what was happening at the same time where I

1:34:24

felt myself about, I felt it coming.

1:34:26

And I was like, oh no, I'm going to throw up.

1:34:28

I'm going to throw up.

1:34:28

And all of a sudden my, my consciousness lifted six feet above my body and I

1:34:33

was looking down at me and Lex and I got this overwhelmingly calm sensation.

1:34:38

And without speaking, the shaman said to me, he said, you're not going to feel

1:34:41

this.

1:34:41

I know you don't like it.

1:34:42

He said, you're just here to support him so you can vomit now.

1:34:46

And so Lex started vomiting and I started vomiting, but I was watching myself

1:34:49

and I was watching him.

1:34:50

And I was just like, this is fine.

1:34:52

It doesn't hurt a bit.

1:34:53

And it was very, very comforting.

1:34:55

And then he came and he started with the, you know, shaking the leaves and

1:34:59

singing louder and, and really cultivating, making sure we gave everything that

1:35:02

we purged all of it.

1:35:03

And then, and then he brought the crescendo down and then he, he, he calmed and

1:35:08

then he began singing.

1:35:09

And then we, we came, we, we, we settled back into the, the, the symphonic throb

1:35:13

of the night.

1:35:14

And then the trip went on for some time, but it was, it was interesting that

1:35:17

things heightened at that moment and that we went through it together.

1:35:20

Wow.

1:35:22

So why did he think that you were there to protect Lex?

1:35:25

It was just like something he felt?

1:35:26

That's what he said.

1:35:27

That's what he said to me.

1:35:28

You know, and then, and then, and then, and then, you know, it was very

1:35:32

interesting watching Lex.

1:35:33

Lex go through his journey because he, he, by the end of it, he just got

1:35:37

happier and happier.

1:35:38

He just, he just liked it more and more.

1:35:40

And around, around, I think cup six, I, I tapped after the, after the vomiting,

1:35:45

after that thing, it was sort of, again, there's, there's energies floating

1:35:49

around and he's singing.

1:35:50

It's great, you know, understanding a little bit of the language because, you

1:35:53

know, he's singing to his grandfather.

1:35:55

He's singing to the spirit of Santiago and the spirit of the Anaconda and using

1:35:59

the old words for them, you know, not even saying Anaconda.

1:36:03

He's, he's saying the other things, Amaru Mayu and, you know, he's saying shiwawako

1:36:07

and he's talking about the, so he's doing this and shaking his thing and you

1:36:11

hear the frogs throbbing and it's all moving through your skin.

1:36:14

And so I, yeah, I, I tapped out after a while and Lex kept going.

1:36:18

He's got an amazing constitution.

1:36:19

I think that's the Russian thing.

1:36:23

But since then I can't drink.

1:36:25

Really?

1:36:26

I can't drink.

1:36:27

I could have a cup of wine.

1:36:28

Maybe if I have more than that, I feel sick.

1:36:29

Interesting.

1:36:30

Like I feel damaged.

1:36:31

I have not been able to drink.

1:36:32

I haven't had a beer since, since two years ago.

1:36:35

So what do you think it is?

1:36:37

It just like let you know what it's doing to you?

1:36:40

I have no idea.

1:36:41

It's just a weird side effect.

1:36:43

I keep trying it.

1:36:44

I'll like, I used to love whiskey.

1:36:46

I'll like, I'll like smell some whiskey and I'm like, blah.

1:36:49

Really?

1:36:50

So we cracked the bottle right now.

1:36:51

Turned off.

1:36:52

I don't have any in here.

1:36:54

I wouldn't.

1:36:54

You, you would, it would make you still a sip?

1:36:57

I mean, I could take a sip of it, but my body would be like, no, red light, red

1:37:00

light, no.

1:37:01

Yeah.

1:37:01

Well, that's, your body's correct.

1:37:03

Yeah.

1:37:03

But it made me, made me hypersensitive.

1:37:06

I noticed from that moment onwards.

1:37:07

Did it have the effect with Lex?

1:37:09

No.

1:37:09

I don't think so.

1:37:10

You can still booze it up.

1:37:11

I don't think so.

1:37:12

Lex goes hard.

1:37:13

I'm sure he's.

1:37:13

We went to Andrew Schultz's wedding with Lex.

1:37:15

Yeah.

1:37:16

And then we had a float.

1:37:17

We flew with Whitney Cummings.

1:37:18

Lex was doing a gig in Vegas.

1:37:19

Yeah.

1:37:20

And we said, we'll go with you.

1:37:21

So it was me and my wife and Whitney and Lex.

1:37:24

We flew to Vegas.

1:37:25

Yeah.

1:37:25

And then we hung out with David Goggins.

1:37:27

I called him up.

1:37:28

I was like, come meet us at the hotel.

1:37:29

Does he party?

1:37:30

No.

1:37:31

No.

1:37:31

No.

1:37:31

No.

1:37:32

Him and Lex were doing push-ups.

1:37:34

They were doing drunk.

1:37:35

Lex was drunk and David wasn't.

1:37:38

And Lex wanted to have a push-up competition.

1:37:41

With Goggins.

1:37:42

With Goggins.

1:37:42

That's amazing.

1:37:43

I mean, but that's why he's Lex, right?

1:37:45

At the encore.

1:37:45

Because he's willing to try everything.

1:37:48

Yeah.

1:37:49

Oh, he's an animal.

1:37:50

I mean, the fact that the push-up competition with David Goggins.

1:37:53

He's just silly.

1:37:54

That's hysterical.

1:37:55

He's quite a character, that Lex.

1:37:57

He told me he's going to Dagestan to train.

1:37:59

He's going to go to Dagestan and train with Khabib's team.

1:38:02

Yeah.

1:38:03

Good Lord, dude.

1:38:04

Yeah, good Lord.

1:38:05

You're like 42.

1:38:06

How old is he?

1:38:08

Lex's got to be in his 40s.

1:38:09

But early 40s.

1:38:11

I think he's still very young.

1:38:12

Yeah, but you're going to go there and train with savages.

1:38:17

But how old is Khabib?

1:38:18

Well, Khabib's retired, but he's probably 35, if I had to guess.

1:38:24

You know, somewhere around there.

1:38:26

Yeah.

1:38:27

But it's a different thing.

1:38:29

He's the one, let's talk now.

1:38:30

Yeah.

1:38:31

Let's talk now.

1:38:32

Well, he's training those guys now.

1:38:36

He's training Islam Akachev and Umar Nurmagomedov, his cousin.

1:38:41

He's training some of the best guys alive.

1:38:43

So he's running a camp down in Dagestan.

1:38:46

Because he's kind of like, so did he, it seemed like, at least, I don't like, I

1:38:51

wasn't really

1:38:51

following his career, but it seemed like he came in like an assassin, did some

1:38:55

big stuff.

1:38:56

Well, his dad died.

1:38:58

Okay.

1:38:58

His dad died during COVID.

1:38:59

Okay.

1:39:00

And after his dad died, he promised his mother that he was going to stop

1:39:04

fighting.

1:39:05

Got it.

1:39:06

Yeah.

1:39:06

His dad was his trainer.

1:39:07

You know, his dad was a legendary, legendary trainer.

1:39:13

He trained Islam, trained Khabib.

1:39:15

And when he died, Khabib made a promise to his mother.

1:39:20

He fought Justin Gaethje, beat him, defended his title, and that was it.

1:39:24

Done.

1:39:25

But I mean, he's very well regarded now for his accomplishments in fighting,

1:39:30

right?

1:39:31

One of the greatest of all time.

1:39:32

Yeah.

1:39:33

I mean, there's an argument of who the greatest of all time is.

1:39:35

It's very subjective.

1:39:36

Sure.

1:39:36

But he's certainly in the conversation.

1:39:38

Yeah.

1:39:38

You know, he's one of.

1:39:41

I don't think there is a, maybe John.

1:39:43

John Jones is the greatest of all time, just based on his accomplishments and

1:39:47

also undefeated.

1:39:49

But also the time that he's been.

1:39:51

I mean, John won a world title at 23 and is still, like, up until he relinquished

1:39:59

his heavyweight title recently.

1:40:03

He's 36, 37 now.

1:40:05

Yeah.

1:40:05

No one's beaten him.

1:40:06

Crazy.

1:40:07

That is wild.

1:40:08

I mean, no one's had a run like that.

1:40:09

No one's had a run like that.

1:40:11

That's insane.

1:40:11

How big is it?

1:40:12

How big is he?

1:40:13

John's a heavyweight.

1:40:13

Yeah.

1:40:14

She's, John, I think, is 6'3 or 6'4.

1:40:17

You know, and now he's about 240-ish, but he used to fight at 205.

1:40:21

That was his main weight class.

1:40:22

That's some crazy.

1:40:25

Yeah.

1:40:25

And so, you know, the conversation of who is the greatest of all time.

1:40:29

In my book, Mighty Mouse is in that conversation, too.

1:40:32

Who's Mighty Mouse?

1:40:33

Mighty Mouse is Demetrius Johnson.

1:40:35

Okay.

1:40:35

He's a flyweight.

1:40:36

The problem is he was a very small guy, and so a lot of people disregard the

1:40:42

smaller guys in that conversation.

1:40:45

But skill-wise, in terms of the expression of mixed martial arts excellence, I

1:40:50

put Mighty Mouse in his prime right up there with everybody.

1:40:53

Do you think that, now, your arms are significantly bigger than mine, and I

1:40:58

feel like the guys who are good at striking have smaller arms.

1:41:03

Mike Tyson.

1:41:03

Giant arms.

1:41:04

Giant arms.

1:41:05

There you go.

1:41:05

Yeah, that's not it.

1:41:06

Don't you feel like you're swinging around some weight?

1:41:08

Well, you are, but you also have a lot more power behind it.

1:41:10

Yeah, yeah, so when you do connect.

1:41:11

That's true.

1:41:12

It's conditioning, you know, like the whole thing of swing.

1:41:15

It's like, did you develop those arms just doing bicep curls?

1:41:19

Yeah.

1:41:19

Or did you develop those arms doing functional things?

1:41:21

Yeah, yeah.

1:41:22

Like, constant training that gives you muscle endurance.

1:41:25

You know, it all depends.

1:41:27

But if you see, like, a big, bulky bodybuilder guy, yeah, that's not good.

1:41:31

No, but for, like, our level where we're still athletic and stuff, I'm going,

1:41:34

but man, I don't want...

1:41:35

I don't want to put on more...

1:41:36

I want to get stronger, but I don't want to put on more mass.

1:41:38

Yeah, I don't do really anything to try to put weight on.

1:41:41

Yeah.

1:41:41

I don't lift anything heavier than 70 pounds.

1:41:44

So many dudes just want to...

1:41:45

Yeah, they just want to look big.

1:41:47

Yeah, I don't do anything like that.

1:41:48

No.

1:41:48

I don't...

1:41:49

Like I said, the heaviest thing I lift is my body weight.

1:41:51

Yeah.

1:41:52

You know, I do a lot of body weight stuff.

1:41:53

I do a lot of chin-ups and dips, and sometimes I do it with a vest, you know,

1:41:58

and I do, you

1:41:58

know...

1:41:59

But with kettlebells, like, the heavy...

1:42:01

Occasionally, I'll throw around a 90-pound kettlebell, but the heaviest I

1:42:04

really train with

1:42:05

is 70.

1:42:05

Yeah.

1:42:06

But that's plenty.

1:42:07

But I don't...

1:42:09

Like I said, I don't train for size.

1:42:10

I just train for function.

1:42:11

Strength and function, yeah.

1:42:12

Yeah, it has to...

1:42:13

To me, it's silly.

1:42:15

If I don't have range of motion and function, like, what am I doing?

1:42:18

No, you have to...

1:42:19

Yeah, I'm a martial artist.

1:42:20

Like, my whole thing is to being able to use my body.

1:42:23

Yeah.

1:42:23

It's not to make it look like I can use it.

1:42:25

I'd rather be smaller and more functional than bigger and just look like a big,

1:42:33

goofy

1:42:33

toad.

1:42:34

Yeah.

1:42:34

I bulk too easily.

1:42:36

I actually try to put on...

1:42:38

That's why I only do...

1:42:39

I mean, yeah, we're Italian-Irish.

1:42:41

I mean, come on.

1:42:42

You get thick.

1:42:42

Yeah, you get thick quick.

1:42:44

Yeah.

1:42:44

You got to wash the pasta.

1:42:47

Long line of people.

1:42:47

Long line of thick people.

1:42:49

Uh-huh.

1:42:49

Yeah.

1:42:49

Uh-huh.

1:42:50

Can I take a quick...

1:42:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:42:53

Let's take a quick...

1:42:53

We'll be right back, ladies and gentlemen.

1:42:55

You've been murdering it.

1:42:56

Like, you've been having just tons and tons of people.

1:42:59

You do them every day?

1:43:00

I just keep...

1:43:01

I mean, it's not any different pace than before.

1:43:04

Yeah.

1:43:05

It's usually four a week.

1:43:06

It seems...

1:43:06

It's just...

1:43:07

Maybe it's because I'm in the jungle for a few weeks and then I'll, like, come

1:43:10

back and look

1:43:11

and I'm like, whoa.

1:43:12

Yeah.

1:43:12

Johnny Knoxville, Matt Damon, and, like, bang, bang, bang, bang.

1:43:16

The key is just keep going.

1:43:18

Yeah.

1:43:18

You know, like, you've run 1,000 miles, right?

1:43:21

But you didn't run 1,000 miles in a day.

1:43:23

Yeah.

1:43:23

You know, you run 10 a day.

1:43:24

You keep going.

1:43:25

And then days go on and on and on and on and on and on and on.

1:43:29

You get to meet everybody.

1:43:30

You meet a lot of people.

1:43:31

Yeah.

1:43:31

You definitely develop a better understanding of human beings.

1:43:34

Because, you know, you're limited by the amount of human beings you interact

1:43:38

with, your scope,

1:43:40

your understanding of people.

1:43:41

Yeah.

1:43:42

The more you can talk to, the more different people, the more you get a

1:43:44

different sense.

1:43:46

Yeah.

1:43:46

Well, you're in a very unique...

1:43:48

I mean, again, I always go back to the bee lady.

1:43:50

Remember that?

1:43:51

Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

1:43:52

She relocates the bees.

1:43:53

She's cool.

1:43:54

Yeah.

1:43:54

And then you have people like Knoxville on and you guys are talking...

1:43:57

I just heard you guys talking about when he got hit by the bull.

1:44:00

I was always wondering if that was real.

1:44:02

And then I remember the first time I came in here I was asking you and Jamie, I

1:44:05

was going,

1:44:05

the one question was the David Blaine thing because he had you shove that thing

1:44:08

through.

1:44:09

I was like, come on.

1:44:09

Oh, I shoved it through.

1:44:10

Yeah, that was real.

1:44:11

I was going, come on, they got it.

1:44:12

That can't be.

1:44:13

Nope, that was real.

1:44:14

Yeah.

1:44:14

I mean, because I did it once and I hit a nerve.

1:44:17

And he had to restart it, right?

1:44:19

Yeah.

1:44:19

Maybe back out and shove it right through.

1:44:21

But it's not a trick, you know?

1:44:24

It's just pain.

1:44:25

Like, I could do that.

1:44:26

If I wanted to do that, I could do that.

1:44:28

I could shove a needle through my arm.

1:44:30

How bad do you want it?

1:44:31

I don't want to do that.

1:44:31

Yeah.

1:44:32

I don't understand why I would do that.

1:44:34

And I feel like that's a little bit of what Knoxville was saying where he was

1:44:36

like,

1:44:36

look, he's like, I got a response.

1:44:38

And he's like, this is what I started doing.

1:44:40

Yeah.

1:44:40

You know, and it's like one way or the other, how are you going to get the

1:44:43

attention?

1:44:43

I mean, that's what brought him to the dance is just getting hurt all the time.

1:44:47

But when he told me he had been knocked unconscious 16 times and then the last

1:44:52

one, that's really

1:44:53

bad.

1:44:53

And then the last one was the bull one that landed on his head and he was

1:44:57

depressed for months

1:44:59

and had to get on medication.

1:45:01

I am very averse to head injuries, which is kind of hypocritical because I'm a

1:45:07

combat sports

1:45:09

commentator.

1:45:09

You know, it's weird.

1:45:10

And I've also been hit in the head a bunch of times, but I just think it's

1:45:14

really fucking

1:45:15

bad for you overall.

1:45:16

I stopped sparring when I was in my late twenties, really kickboxing sparring.

1:45:22

Yeah.

1:45:23

And then I did it a little bit when I was supposed to fight Wesley Snipes.

1:45:25

I went back and started sparring again.

1:45:27

Did you fight Wesley Snipes?

1:45:29

No.

1:45:29

Wesley Snipes was hysterical.

1:45:31

It was in, I was in my mid thirties.

1:45:33

I was like, this is the last chance I get to do something like this.

1:45:36

Yeah.

1:45:37

And then I got contacted by Campbell McLaren, who was one of the producers of

1:45:41

the early UFC.

1:45:42

He's like, this is going to sound crazy.

1:45:44

But Wesley, he was in tax problems.

1:45:47

He wound up going to jail for tax evasion.

1:45:49

Apparently he had some crazy guy who was telling him, you know, you don't have

1:45:53

to pay taxes.

1:45:54

You know, there's, there's those guys that are like, what do they call them?

1:45:57

Sovereign citizens.

1:45:58

Is that what they call them?

1:45:59

There's a lot of people that give really bad advice, you know?

1:46:03

And they got in with someone like Wesley Snipes.

1:46:05

Uh-huh.

1:46:06

And, you know, they tell you like they can't prosecute you.

1:46:10

It's not in the constitution.

1:46:11

And he believed it because he didn't have access to other people.

1:46:14

I never talked to Wesley.

1:46:15

I don't know.

1:46:16

I don't have anything against him.

1:46:16

You sure he just wasn't scared of fighting you, so he made up this whole story?

1:46:19

No.

1:46:20

I think Wesley also might have been embarking on a journey of cocaine.

1:46:24

Oh.

1:46:25

Which gives you a very distorted idea of what you can and can't do.

1:46:30

Everything.

1:46:31

Yeah.

1:46:31

You think you can do everything.

1:46:33

I don't know if that's the case.

1:46:34

I think it might have been just, well, he's a very legitimate martial artist.

1:46:37

I mean, Wesley, if you look at his like skills, like from the movie Blade and

1:46:43

like he's a

1:46:43

really good martial artist.

1:46:44

He knows how to fight.

1:46:45

Yeah.

1:46:46

You kind of have to be to do those movies.

1:46:47

Yeah.

1:46:47

Yeah.

1:46:48

But my thought was just I'm going to grab him and choke the life out of him.

1:46:52

Yeah.

1:46:52

How is he going to stop me?

1:46:53

Yeah.

1:46:53

Like also, I know how to stand up.

1:46:55

That would have been awesome.

1:46:56

He was a kickboxer.

1:46:57

That would have been awesome.

1:46:58

If you could fight one person dead or alive, full fight.

1:47:02

I don't want to do that.

1:47:03

I wouldn't eat.

1:47:04

No.

1:47:04

The problem with it, it really.

1:47:06

No, but like theoretically, not you as Joe Rogan, the dad and like does Joe Rogan.

1:47:09

It would not be one person.

1:47:11

What it would be is start fighting again.

1:47:13

It would be fight whoever.

1:47:14

It was the whole thing would be competing.

1:47:16

But obviously I'm 58.

1:47:18

That's never going to happen again now.

1:47:20

I'm saying like, but like Wesley Snipes, it's like, you know, you say like, oh,

1:47:23

I'd want to fight.

1:47:24

Well, I just thought it would be an adventure.

1:47:25

Yeah.

1:47:26

And I trained for like six months.

1:47:28

I was training with Rob Kamen, who was like a legendary kickboxing, a Dutch

1:47:32

kickboxing champion.

1:47:34

So he was my kickboxing coach.

1:47:35

Yeah.

1:47:36

And so I was training with him in the mornings and I was training jujitsu at

1:47:38

night.

1:47:39

It was hard.

1:47:40

It was really hard.

1:47:41

I was doing it for six months.

1:47:42

I was training twice a day for six months.

1:47:44

Yeah.

1:47:44

It was really brutal.

1:47:45

And I was so tired.

1:47:47

I was tired all the time.

1:47:48

And that's where you got those leg kicks that you were teaching George St.

1:47:51

Pierre.

1:47:51

Nah, I learned how to do that when I was a kid.

1:47:54

Now, my question is now he's such a legendary MMA guy.

1:47:57

Like he was, did he not have.

1:48:00

Well, I was a Taekwondo specialist, you know, and I was a multiple times state

1:48:05

champion in Taekwondo.

1:48:06

And I won a bunch of national tournaments.

1:48:08

And I was really good.

1:48:10

I was really good at Taekwondo.

1:48:11

Like I had fought at a very high level.

1:48:15

And I have a lot of really good instruction that I got from, I got very lucky.

1:48:23

And I stumbled upon a school in Boston called the Jae Hun Kim Taekwondo

1:48:28

Institute.

1:48:29

Just randomly walked in the door one day and it turned out to be one of the

1:48:33

best Taekwondo schools in the world.

1:48:36

And so I had trained with some of the very best people in the world just by

1:48:42

fortune.

1:48:43

And I was physically gifted.

1:48:44

I was very lucky in a lot of ways.

1:48:46

I had a lot of natural power.

1:48:48

And I learned technique, which is the most important thing, like perfect

1:48:52

technique.

1:48:54

And so when it was funny, it was because it came about because of John Donaher.

1:49:00

I had a conversation with John Donaher, who's George's jiu-jitsu coach, who's

1:49:04

maybe the greatest martial arts coach in the world, maybe of all time, really,

1:49:08

legitimately, like a brilliant man.

1:49:10

He was a philosophy major from Columbia who got – I think he was a professor

1:49:17

for a bit.

1:49:18

But then he got obsessed with jiu-jitsu and was just teaching jiu-jitsu and

1:49:21

training jiu-jitsu and sleeping on the mats and – like literally.

1:49:24

Literally.

1:49:25

Literally teaching all day and training all day and sleeping on the mats.

1:49:28

But a brilliant man.

1:49:30

And we were having dinner one night and he's like, George needs some help with

1:49:34

the finer points of the spinning back kick.

1:49:38

Do you know anyone who can help him?

1:49:40

And I said, this is going to sound crazy.

1:49:43

I go, but I have like the best spinning back kick you're ever going to see in

1:49:46

your fucking life.

1:49:48

I go, I know it sounds crazy because I'm a comedian.

1:49:50

I go, find a bag I could show you.

1:49:53

I could show you what I could do.

1:49:55

And then I brought – there's a video of me.

1:49:57

Oh, I saw it.

1:49:58

Okay.

1:49:58

It was me taking –

1:49:59

The sound is imprinted in my mind.

1:50:01

George.

1:50:01

Whack.

1:50:02

This is when we were at Legends.

1:50:03

Yeah.

1:50:03

Legends MMA in L.A., which is where I trained.

1:50:07

It was where Eddie Bravo had 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu.

1:50:10

And, you know, I go, okay, let's go downstairs to the Muay Thai part and I'll

1:50:16

show you.

1:50:17

And then I kick the bag and he's like, man, what the fuck?

1:50:20

Can I film this?

1:50:21

And like he's filming with a flip phone, which is crazy.

1:50:25

Like that's how long ago this was.

1:50:26

That's crazy.

1:50:28

I don't know.

1:50:28

It was probably 2005 or something like that.

1:50:30

I had hair.

1:50:30

And it was funny because it was like this thing.

1:50:36

It's like – because I don't do it.

1:50:37

It was – even back then, it wasn't like I was training in kickboxing.

1:50:41

I wasn't training in Taekwondo.

1:50:43

It was just – I just still had it in me.

1:50:46

Yeah.

1:50:46

Yeah.

1:50:46

Do you still – do you keep it?

1:50:50

Did it today.

1:50:50

You did it today?

1:50:51

Yeah.

1:50:51

Nice.

1:50:51

Yeah.

1:50:52

That was an impressive video.

1:50:53

And you just go, Jesus, he's – if he's showing this to George St. Pierre, how

1:50:58

good is he at this thing?

1:50:59

It's like –

1:50:59

I used to be really good.

1:51:00

Yeah.

1:51:01

I believe you.

1:51:01

But I realized when I was like 21 – well, I realized when I was 19 that I was

1:51:07

going to have to stop because I fought in California.

1:51:11

I was living in Boston at the time.

1:51:12

I was traveling all over the country and fighting.

1:51:14

And I fought in the nationals in California against this guy who was the

1:51:18

Illinois state champion.

1:51:19

And I knocked him out really bad.

1:51:22

It was really bad.

1:51:24

I hit him with a wheel kick in the head and my heel was sore for days

1:51:28

afterwards.

1:51:29

Yeah.

1:51:29

Like I had a hard time walking from his fucking head.

1:51:33

Yeah.

1:51:33

And he never got up.

1:51:35

He went down face first, was snoring.

1:51:38

And back then my thing was if I knocked anybody out, I would just act like it

1:51:43

was no big deal.

1:51:44

I would just turn away and walk away.

1:51:45

No celebration.

1:51:46

I just walk away like that.

1:51:47

I'm going to do that to all of you guys.

1:51:49

Yeah.

1:51:49

And so I walked away and then I turned to my friend, Junkzik, who was my corner

1:51:54

guy.

1:51:54

I said, is he getting up?

1:51:55

He was like, he's not getting up.

1:51:57

He's not going to get up.

1:51:58

He's out.

1:51:58

And then they took him and they put him in a – they took him and they put him

1:52:03

in a stretcher.

1:52:04

And then they were taking care of him.

1:52:06

And for like a half hour, he was still unconscious.

1:52:08

Yeah.

1:52:09

And then they took him to the hospital.

1:52:10

I have no idea what happened to him.

1:52:12

But I realized it was so bad.

1:52:14

It was – because he came forward.

1:52:17

So what happened was he did – do you know what a switch kick is?

1:52:21

No.

1:52:22

A switch kick is you're standing with your left leg forward and you switch legs

1:52:27

and you come like with the left kick.

1:52:29

So you think he's repositioning and then –

1:52:31

He's moving forward and he telegraphed it.

1:52:34

And it's his left leg.

1:52:35

So I saw that his left leg was coming this way.

1:52:39

So I spun with my right heel and I hit him in the head as he was running

1:52:42

forward.

1:52:43

So it's like multiple – the force itself of a wheel kick is so powerful.

1:52:48

Yeah.

1:52:48

And then when you're running into a wheel kick, it's crazy.

1:52:51

It's like two cars driving at each other.

1:52:53

It's like getting hit with a baseball bat that fucking – you know, Mark McGuire

1:52:58

swinging.

1:52:59

Yeah.

1:53:00

It's crazy how much power there is in it.

1:53:02

Because it's your legs.

1:53:03

Your legs carry you around all day.

1:53:05

And the torque of your whole body, you're whipping around and you're hitting

1:53:09

with the heel.

1:53:10

And you – you know, there's no padding on your heel.

1:53:12

And it's not – I hit him right on the fucking cheek, like right on the side

1:53:15

of his head.

1:53:15

He went out.

1:53:17

And then I came back to my instructor and he wasn't there at the tournament.

1:53:23

I went back to Boston.

1:53:24

He's like – he goes, I heard you had a really good knockout.

1:53:28

And I said, yeah.

1:53:30

I said I was – it was scary.

1:53:32

I go, I thought he was dead.

1:53:33

He goes, sometimes they die.

1:53:37

And then he walked away from me.

1:53:39

And I was like, fuck, man.

1:53:40

Sometimes they die.

1:53:41

I'm like, that's me.

1:53:42

I'm like – and I had no health insurance.

1:53:45

I was 19.

1:53:46

I was broke.

1:53:46

I was training for the – I wanted to be on the Olympic team.

1:53:48

And that was two years from there.

1:53:50

And I lost a lot of my steam at that moment because I was like, what am I doing?

1:53:56

I'm fighting for free.

1:53:57

I don't have any money.

1:53:59

I have no insurance.

1:54:00

And I'm doing this thing.

1:54:02

And I knew back then I was getting some brain damage for sure.

1:54:08

And then I started kickboxing like right after that.

1:54:13

And then I really kind of lost my feeling for Taekwondo because I realized it

1:54:16

was so limited.

1:54:17

You know, that like when I was sparring with kickboxers, I was really like, man,

1:54:21

my hands are so limited.

1:54:22

So then I started working with this guy, Joe Lake, who was a boxing coach.

1:54:26

And that's when I was doing a lot of boxing and a lot of kickboxing.

1:54:31

And I was like, man, I'm getting my brains beat in.

1:54:33

And I don't know why I'm doing this.

1:54:36

And I'm like, there's no professional.

1:54:39

It wasn't like the UFC existed at the time.

1:54:41

I got offered a kickboxing fight for 500 bucks.

1:54:44

And I was like, 500 bucks.

1:54:46

So for 500 bucks, I lose my amateur status.

1:54:49

I can never fight in the Olympics.

1:54:50

And there's no money in it as a professional.

1:54:52

I'm like, what is my future?

1:54:53

Am I going to be one of the – and then I'm new guys in the gym that I used to

1:54:57

train with like when I was 19.

1:54:59

And then by the time I was like 21, I was seeing brain damage in these guys.

1:55:03

I was seeing them slurring their words, forgetting what they were saying,

1:55:07

repeating themselves.

1:55:08

The weird thing is they'll tell you a story.

1:55:10

Yeah.

1:55:11

And then they'll tell you the same story.

1:55:12

Yeah.

1:55:13

Like two minutes later.

1:55:14

And they're like, you just fucking told me that story.

1:55:16

That's terrifying.

1:55:16

They don't remember.

1:55:17

They don't remember anything.

1:55:18

And now – but now, you know, George St. Pierre is a good example of someone.

1:55:21

I feel like he made it out of fighting before.

1:55:23

Yes.

1:55:24

Like he looks very healthy.

1:55:25

He's fine.

1:55:25

He looks like he's fine.

1:55:26

He's fine.

1:55:27

But he's, you know, he's a very intelligent guy.

1:55:30

He does – also does a lot of things to keep his mind very active.

1:55:32

He plays chess.

1:55:33

Yeah.

1:55:33

You know, and he's very like proactive about it.

1:55:37

Yeah, but he seems like – even like I've just seen him on social media where

1:55:39

he's like, hey, guys, this is how I do.

1:55:41

Like he's just like a very –

1:55:43

Oh, yeah.

1:55:43

Seems like a very positive, fun, you know, does not seem –

1:55:46

Best case scenario for both – another guy in the argument for the all-time

1:55:50

great.

1:55:50

Yeah.

1:55:51

For an all-time great MMA champion who has a successful and happy life outside

1:55:57

of it.

1:55:58

Didn't end up with the shakes.

1:56:00

No.

1:56:00

No.

1:56:01

No, he's fine.

1:56:02

I mean, I've hung out with him a bunch.

1:56:03

I've hung out with him recently.

1:56:04

Yeah.

1:56:05

He was great.

1:56:05

He came to the comedy club.

1:56:07

He was actually playing my friend James McCann.

1:56:08

They were playing chess in the green room at the Comedy Mothership.

1:56:11

It was so cool.

1:56:12

We were filming it.

1:56:12

The last time I came, I think he had been in there the night before, and I was

1:56:15

like,

1:56:16

I would have been – that would have been a trip to meet him.

1:56:18

He's amazing.

1:56:19

He's – but he's such a sweetheart of a guy.

1:56:21

You would never imagine that he's this fucking killer inside the octagon.

1:56:24

Yeah.

1:56:25

He's such a sweet guy.

1:56:26

Yeah.

1:56:27

But it's just like, for him, it was just this incredible challenge, and he was

1:56:31

really good

1:56:32

at it.

1:56:32

Yeah.

1:56:33

And he just figured out a way to express himself that way, and, you know, he's

1:56:37

a legend.

1:56:38

Like, I don't imagine that he was, like, big on, like, the trash talk before

1:56:41

fights and

1:56:41

everything, right?

1:56:42

He was probably just like, look, we're just going to –

1:56:43

No, there was no trash talk.

1:56:44

He was very respectful.

1:56:45

No.

1:56:46

No.

1:56:46

Unless someone was disrespectful to him, and, you know, and even then, he wasn't

1:56:52

trash

1:56:52

talking.

1:56:52

No, he always seemed like he was cool.

1:56:54

Yeah.

1:56:54

He was just doing his thing.

1:56:55

No, he was one of the best representatives of the sport of all time, if not the

1:57:01

best.

1:57:01

No, I like that.

1:57:02

Like, never got into trouble outside the octagon.

1:57:04

Yeah.

1:57:05

Never, you know, was never drunk driving or beating people up, and, you know,

1:57:10

just a great

1:57:11

guy.

1:57:12

And if – I would have to tell people who he is.

1:57:14

Like, he would – he was like, who's your friend?

1:57:16

I was like, what do you think he does?

1:57:18

Yeah.

1:57:18

What do you think my friend does?

1:57:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:57:20

And, like, I don't know.

1:57:20

He seems cool.

1:57:21

How big is he?

1:57:22

He's one of the – he's about 5'9", 5'10", maybe.

1:57:27

Yeah, sure.

1:57:27

And now he probably weighs 180 pounds, 185 pounds, maybe.

1:57:31

Fought at 170.

1:57:32

Okay.

1:57:33

You know, he's not, like, a scary-looking person.

1:57:36

I'm like, that's one of the greatest fighters that's ever walked the face of

1:57:39

the earth.

1:57:40

I'm like, no way.

1:57:41

I'm like, yeah.

1:57:42

I mean, he's like, hey, how you doing, man?

1:57:44

What's going on?

1:57:45

Like, he doesn't seem rough.

1:57:46

He's, like, jovial.

1:57:47

No.

1:57:47

Yeah, he's a sweetheart.

1:57:48

No, he's not trying to intimidate – like, you know, Khabib looks like he's,

1:57:51

you know.

1:57:51

He's really smart.

1:57:52

I mean, he's really – he's always, like, watching documentaries and reading

1:57:55

books.

1:57:56

Yeah.

1:57:56

He's fascinated by ancient history and dinosaurs and really into aliens.

1:58:01

We lost dinosaurs.

1:58:02

No, it's just crazy, man.

1:58:05

You've gotten to this – you've met everyone.

1:58:08

Did you ever have Jane Goodall on here?

1:58:10

No, I did not, unfortunately.

1:58:11

I wanted to make that happen.

1:58:13

I wanted to.

1:58:13

I wanted to make that happen.

1:58:14

She's gone, right?

1:58:15

She just died.

1:58:16

I just lost her.

1:58:16

I wanted to talk to her about Bigfoot because she was convinced that Bigfoot

1:58:20

was real.

1:58:20

What?

1:58:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:58:22

She was convinced that Bigfoot was real.

1:58:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:58:23

She did this interview.

1:58:24

She said she's certain of it.

1:58:26

Yeah, yeah.

1:58:27

We'll find it.

1:58:28

Jamie, you'll find that.

1:58:29

I – not that I don't believe you, but I just don't find Jane Goodall.

1:58:33

I know, I know, I know.

1:58:34

I was stunned.

1:58:35

I was like, what?

1:58:36

And this is by the time I had been convinced that Bigfoot was fake.

1:58:39

Yeah, I'm in that camp.

1:58:41

There's camera traps.

1:58:42

But this is the camp.

1:58:43

There was an animal that coexisted with human beings for sure that was called

1:58:49

Gigantopithecus.

1:58:50

Yes.

1:58:51

You know the whole story.

1:58:52

Yeah.

1:58:52

So Gigantopithecus, they found bones in an apothecary shop in China in the 1920s

1:59:00

or 30s.

1:59:01

And an anthropologist found these molars and said, where did you get this?

1:59:06

These are primate molars and they're fucking enormous.

1:59:09

Yeah.

1:59:10

Like whatever this thing was, was absolutely huge.

1:59:12

So they went to the site where they got it.

1:59:14

They found mandible bones that indicated it was bipedal.

1:59:18

So it was an upright walking primate that was 8 to 10 feet tall.

1:59:25

Like what the fuck is this?

1:59:27

And so I'm sure you've seen the images of what a Gigantopithecus looked like in

1:59:31

comparison to a human being.

1:59:33

It's in the orangutan family.

1:59:34

And so that thing existed and also existed in Asia, right?

1:59:42

So you look at the Bering Strait and you look at the Bering Land Bridge that we

1:59:46

know existed during the Ice Age.

1:59:48

And so we know that humans migrated from Siberia into North America.

1:59:54

We know that for a fact.

1:59:55

You know one of the reasons we know that for a fact?

1:59:57

Because Mormons were convinced that Native Americans were part of the lost

2:00:00

tribe of Israel.

2:00:03

Yeah.

2:00:03

Yeah.

2:00:03

So some rich Mormon guy did a DNA test on Native Americans and found out that

2:00:10

they emanated from Siberia.

2:00:13

Yeah.

2:00:13

And so it was incorrect.

2:00:15

So we know humans came down from there.

2:00:18

Why wouldn't other animals?

2:00:20

Sure.

2:00:20

We know they did.

2:00:21

We know short-faced bear, a bunch of different animals that they find their

2:00:24

bones in Alaska.

2:00:25

And they know that they probably made their way down through North America.

2:00:29

It just stands.

2:00:30

It just makes logical sense that if you have a variety of different megafauna.

2:00:35

Of different primates.

2:00:36

That probably one of those primates or a bunch of those primates lived in the

2:00:41

Pacific Northwest, which is the area where they would be.

2:00:44

And then you have incredibly dense forest, right?

2:00:48

Yeah.

2:00:48

So Jane Goodall won't rule out the existence.

2:00:51

But no, no, no.

2:00:52

Find the video where she says, I'm convinced.

2:00:55

I'm convinced.

2:00:56

Yeah, because she was talking.

2:00:57

I didn't see her say that.

2:00:59

Oh, no, no.

2:00:59

I've heard it.

2:01:00

I'm not saying she didn't.

2:01:01

No, I'm not saying she didn't.

2:01:02

Okay, just find it because it exists.

2:01:03

It doesn't exist.

2:01:05

I can't listen to the videos.

2:01:06

No, no, no.

2:01:07

Go to video.

2:01:08

Dude, she would have been awesome on the recording.

2:01:10

I'm so sad.

2:01:12

Jane Goodall on how Bigfoot might be real.

2:01:13

That's it right there.

2:01:14

Put the headphones on.

2:01:15

Listen to this.

2:01:16

Headphones.

2:01:18

Here we go.

2:01:20

I climbed into the hills.

2:01:23

Oh, there's Jane.

2:01:24

This was where I was meant to be.

2:01:29

I wanted to talk to you about something that some would say is fictional, but

2:01:34

you would say,

2:01:35

hold up, we don't know for certain, and that's Bigfoot.

2:01:38

Everybody talks to me about it.

2:01:42

I would, I'm romantic.

2:01:43

I would like Bigfoot to exist.

2:01:45

I've met people who swear they've seen Bigfoot.

2:01:48

And I think the interesting thing is every single continent, there is an

2:01:53

equivalent of Bigfoot or Sasquatch.

2:01:56

There's the Yeti.

2:01:57

There's the Yari in Australia.

2:01:58

There's the Chinese wild man.

2:02:00

And on and on and on and on.

2:02:03

And, you know, I've had stories from people who, you have to believe them.

2:02:10

So there's something, I don't know what it is.

2:02:13

I'm always open-minded.

2:02:14

What about other mythological creatures?

2:02:17

Pause for a second.

2:02:18

So they're saying that to her.

2:02:21

He's saying that to her.

2:02:22

And she said that in reaction to a previous interview that she did.

2:02:25

In the previous interview that she did, she said, I'm convinced that it exists.

2:02:31

I don't know.

2:02:33

Well, you know, you've got to realize this is a lady that lived with primates

2:02:37

in an inaccessible area where there's very few human beings.

2:02:42

And she had these interactions with them.

2:02:43

I don't agree with her.

2:02:45

But I think that it existed at one point in time.

2:02:48

One of the other reasons why I think it exists is that different Native

2:02:52

American tribes put this into perplexity.

2:02:54

How many different Native American terms were there for a hairy wild man or Bigfoot?

2:03:03

And I believe there's more than 80.

2:03:05

That's wild.

2:03:06

Now, they don't have a lot of mythological creatures in Native American culture.

2:03:11

Yeah.

2:03:11

Right.

2:03:12

And so in different tribes.

2:03:13

Right.

2:03:14

But they have a name for this hairy, wild, giant man that lives in the woods.

2:03:20

A Wookie.

2:03:21

Yeah.

2:03:22

They also have the other thing that's really fascinating is giants.

2:03:25

There is a lot of ancient cultures have stories about giants.

2:03:31

And Native American tribes have ancient stories of giant red haired men.

2:03:39

Which, you know, God, it's in the Bible.

2:03:43

It's in a bunch of, okay, 40 to 50 separate terms across different languages

2:03:47

and regions.

2:03:48

Harry, wild, giant man.

2:03:50

No single agreed upon count.

2:03:53

But dozens of distinct Native American names for Harry, wild, giant man beings.

2:03:56

Easily over 40 to 50 separate terms across different languages and regions.

2:04:02

Interesting.

2:04:03

I still, I would love to see the clip eventually of Jane Coyle saying, I

2:04:06

believe in Bigfoot.

2:04:07

Because if you're saying that, she's like, I'm open to the idea of it.

2:04:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:04:11

She's saying that.

2:04:12

And the reason why he's asking that is because he had, exactly.

2:04:15

He'd seen the, yeah, yeah.

2:04:16

Because he had seen the previous interview.

2:04:18

See if we can find another interview with her talking about Bigfoot.

2:04:21

Yeah, she was, she was awesome.

2:04:22

She was awesome.

2:04:23

She, she's the reason I have a career.

2:04:26

Really?

2:04:26

Her being awesome.

2:04:28

I always, there's two stories I tell people.

2:04:30

If I go, first of all, because everyone goes, what's Joe Rogan like?

2:04:33

And I, no, it's true.

2:04:34

Because everyone wants to know.

2:04:35

And you're controversial.

2:04:36

And so I'm like, I was the nicest fucking guy in the world.

2:04:39

Like I said, the first time I came in, you sent me a message and you said

2:04:41

something about

2:04:42

like, hey, don't worry about a thing.

2:04:43

Like, I'm even going to bring my dog.

2:04:44

Like, it was very nice.

2:04:46

It was a little pat on the back.

2:04:46

Because you go, Jane Goodall, I went to a talk when I was like 22, something.

2:04:54

And I was just writing chapters of my first book, Mother of God, which didn't

2:04:56

even have

2:04:57

a name yet.

2:04:58

And I had chapters in a manila envelope and I went to a talk that Goodall was

2:05:02

giving.

2:05:03

And I mean, I'd been read stories and seen the black and white pictures.

2:05:07

So this was like, you know, like Einstein, Abe Lincoln, Jane Goodall.

2:05:10

It's like a living historical figure.

2:05:12

And so now she's talking in front of me and I had brought these chapters and I

2:05:16

wanted to

2:05:17

ask her because I'd already sent the chapters to publishers and they'd all been

2:05:20

like, kid,

2:05:20

none of this is true.

2:05:22

You know, no way did you jump on a giant anaconda.

2:05:24

No way did you raise an anteater.

2:05:26

They just didn't believe me.

2:05:28

And then I, when it was my turn after hundreds of people, I get to her and, you

2:05:32

know, she

2:05:32

goes, hello.

2:05:33

She goes, takes a little picture with you.

2:05:34

And I said, would you read these chapters?

2:05:36

I said, I would love it because I loved your stories as a kid.

2:05:39

She goes, thank you.

2:05:40

And she puts it to the side.

2:05:41

48 hours later, her staff gets in touch and they go, Jane actually read what

2:05:46

you gave

2:05:47

her, loved it and said, finish the book, get a publisher and I will write you

2:05:53

an endorsement.

2:05:53

Whoa.

2:05:55

She waved her magical wand in my direction and gave me a career.

2:06:00

That's so cool.

2:06:01

And what's really great is that earlier this year, I emailed her and it was

2:06:06

because this

2:06:07

book was coming out and I, I, you know, I said it would be amazing to have, I

2:06:11

mean, I

2:06:12

said, at this point, no one's, you know, the conservation, the voice of mother

2:06:16

earth.

2:06:18

And she just, you know, she was just, she just said, you know, just keep

2:06:20

protecting the

2:06:21

Amazon.

2:06:22

That's, that's your mission.

2:06:23

She was always very, it was like, you know, Luke, believe in yourself.

2:06:26

It was like, you know, she was just like, you, your job is to protect this

2:06:30

forest.

2:06:31

And it was incredible.

2:06:32

That's amazing.

2:06:33

And so, yeah, right, right.

2:06:34

You know, about six months ago, I got to tell her, I was like, look, cause the

2:06:37

last time

2:06:38

I'd spoken to her, we were protecting, I think it was like a hundred thousand

2:06:42

acres.

2:06:42

And then in the last year we added 30,000 acres to the reserve.

2:06:46

And so I said, you know, we're, we're making strides forward.

2:06:49

And she just, it was good that I got to tell her that.

2:06:51

And then, and then, uh, you know, recently we found out that, that she died,

2:06:56

but what

2:06:57

a legacy, what a legacy, what a legacy.

2:06:59

Yeah.

2:06:59

I mean, we know so much about primate behavior because of that woman.

2:07:03

We still know so much about, I mean, man, the toolmaker before her, we said,

2:07:08

there was humans that use tools.

2:07:10

And now we know that, you know, capuchin monkeys use rocks.

2:07:13

We know that otters use rocks.

2:07:15

I mean, I've seen elephants use a stick to scratch.

2:07:18

I've seen, I've seen, I've seen camera chat footage of an elephant using a tree

2:07:23

to knock

2:07:23

over an electrical fence.

2:07:24

Like animals use tools.

2:07:26

Oh yeah.

2:07:27

She was the first one.

2:07:28

I mean, she went out there when she was what, 20 something years old, middle

2:07:31

Africa, blonde

2:07:32

girl.

2:07:32

Crazy.

2:07:33

And then spent the whole rest of her life.

2:07:36

But the lesson that I take away from that is that even as famous as she was,

2:07:39

that she

2:07:41

was traveling 300 days a year.

2:07:42

I mean, she'd been, you know, uh, an icon for decades and that she still took

2:07:47

the time

2:07:48

to actually read something that some kid handed to her to that's unfathomable

2:07:56

grace to do that.

2:07:58

And then literally if that didn't happen, I never would have published Mother

2:08:01

of God.

2:08:02

I never would have started Jungle Keepers.

2:08:05

I never would have been protecting the rainforest.

2:08:07

She, she, she empowered that.

2:08:09

She did that with her magic.

2:08:10

It was, and I think that that's incredible.

2:08:12

That's so cool.

2:08:13

Absolutely incredible.

2:08:14

Did you find any other?

2:08:15

No.

2:08:17

I guarantee it exists.

2:08:19

Yeah.

2:08:19

But it's okay.

2:08:20

You have to trust me.

2:08:22

Um, I don't think she's correct, but, uh, I do think not Bigfoot, but I do

2:08:29

think that

2:08:30

it's entirely possible that there is a small, hairy, uh, primate, like human,

2:08:37

like primate

2:08:38

that exists still.

2:08:39

That's like the Hobbit people from the Island of Flores.

2:08:43

Yeah.

2:08:43

You know, there's, um, there's the thing called the Orang Pandek.

2:08:47

Have you heard of that?

2:08:48

No.

2:08:48

The Orang Pandek, uh, I think, uh, Indonesia, perhaps Vietnam.

2:08:54

There's a bunch of places that have this creature that gets sighted on multiple

2:08:59

occasions.

2:09:00

And they used to think of it as like just silly legend, but now because of the

2:09:07

discovery,

2:09:08

which was, was it in the nineties that they discovered the Hobbit people on the

2:09:14

Island

2:09:14

of Flores?

2:09:15

You know about that, right?

2:09:16

I've heard of them.

2:09:17

Yeah.

2:09:17

Yeah.

2:09:17

Homo.

2:09:18

And those are real.

2:09:18

Yes.

2:09:19

Those are real.

2:09:20

We have their bones.

2:09:21

Very real.

2:09:22

Very real.

2:09:22

It was a very small, um, like Hobbit-like creature that was a type of primate

2:09:30

that was

2:09:31

bipedal, um, that was like a little tiny hairy human being that lived at least

2:09:37

on the Island

2:09:38

of Flores, but most likely lived in many other places as well.

2:09:42

And, um, there's, there's a possibility that it still exists.

2:09:47

And it's not me saying this.

2:09:50

It's like some actual anthropologists that believe that this thing might still

2:09:53

be alive

2:09:54

because you're dealing with incredibly small populations.

2:09:57

But are those, I mean, are those islands so small that no, like unlike the

2:10:02

Amazon, it's

2:10:02

gigantic, but like how could there be a population?

2:10:05

They're incredibly dense, incredibly dense forest and no one's going down in

2:10:08

the bushes.

2:10:09

Right.

2:10:10

It's like the Tasmanian tiger.

2:10:12

I was just going to say that like the thylacine where it's like, they're just,

2:10:14

they're just

2:10:14

hidden.

2:10:15

Exactly.

2:10:16

Exactly.

2:10:16

Like small population.

2:10:17

Like there's a lot of sightings of the thylacine, you know?

2:10:21

Yeah.

2:10:21

But somehow all these sightings, it's never on a, it's never clear.

2:10:24

No, no.

2:10:25

That was the, it's also, there's no one there.

2:10:28

Yeah.

2:10:28

Here's the thing.

2:10:29

I mean, let's pretend that you saw a Wolverine in the Montana woods, like dense

2:10:36

Montana woods.

2:10:37

And it's a hundred yards away.

2:10:39

You see it briefly for a second, get your phone.

2:10:41

You're not going to, you might've seen it, you might've seen it traveling

2:10:43

between trees,

2:10:44

but like, how are you going to get it off your phone?

2:10:47

You're going to have to, unless you have a Samsung where you have a really good

2:10:50

zoom,

2:10:50

you're not going to be able to zoom in enough.

2:10:52

You know, like you'd have to have like, there's only a few phones that are,

2:10:55

yeah, you're not

2:10:56

going to get good footage, but we know that Wolverines are real.

2:10:59

But finding a Wolverine in the woods, I've talked to, God, I've talked to

2:11:04

hundreds of

2:11:05

men who spend a giant portion of their life in the woods.

2:11:09

And only a few have seen Wolverines.

2:11:11

I would love to see a Wolverine.

2:11:12

Or how about mountain lions?

2:11:13

They're everywhere.

2:11:14

I've only seen three of them in my entire life.

2:11:17

That's wild.

2:11:19

But I've probably been around a hundred of them and not known it.

2:11:23

You know, that's what, that's the reaction we got with the tribes was that if

2:11:27

you look

2:11:27

at uncontacted tribe, my whole life, you look at photos of uncontacted tribes,

2:11:32

it was like

2:11:33

blurry, crappy, because who was out there?

2:11:36

It was like a logger, right?

2:11:37

Or it was somebody running.

2:11:38

Right.

2:11:39

And even when I saw them the first time, when I was out on a solo, it was 10

2:11:43

days deep in

2:11:44

the jungle, I saw them and I ran for my life and everyone went, you didn't see

2:11:48

them.

2:11:48

I mean, I'm a, I don't mind that if I have pics or it didn't happen.

2:11:51

Right.

2:11:51

Right.

2:11:52

And so with this, when we started, when we started actually showing people what

2:11:57

we had,

2:11:57

it was like, this has never been, it's like, it's like a vision into the, into

2:12:02

the stone

2:12:02

age.

2:12:02

Right.

2:12:03

I mean, I mean, like really not even the stone age, like they're not even the

2:12:06

stone

2:12:07

tools.

2:12:08

They're using sharpened sticks.

2:12:09

Yeah.

2:12:09

I showed it to an anthropologist and he was saying, you know, stone age isn't

2:12:13

necessarily

2:12:14

accurate here.

2:12:15

He said, because they're not using stone.

2:12:17

They don't have clay pots.

2:12:18

He goes, this is something, this is, but I mean, it, then think about it.

2:12:22

It's actually like a time machine because you're, you're, you're, and we were

2:12:25

standing

2:12:26

across the river, look, talking to these people and it's like, you guys are a

2:12:29

couple thousand

2:12:30

years back.

2:12:31

And so it's like, this is such a strange aperture into history.

2:12:35

Maybe not even a couple, maybe like 30, 40.

2:12:37

Maybe.

2:12:38

I feel like, I feel like the, I feel like somehow to me the number seems like

2:12:42

two, but it's like,

2:12:44

you know, we were, we were like little tribes.

2:12:46

Yeah.

2:12:46

But 2000 years ago, uh, the Egyptian pyramids were already 2,500 years old.

2:12:51

That's true.

2:12:51

That's true.

2:12:52

But I mean, again, the civilization isn't homogenous, right?

2:12:56

Like different, different, you know, so obviously there's uncontacted tribes

2:13:00

still right now.

2:13:01

Yes.

2:13:01

That's what's crazy.

2:13:02

Yeah.

2:13:03

It's like a man with a cell phone from the future filmed people.

2:13:08

That's what I'm saying.

2:13:09

It felt like that.

2:13:10

It felt like this was like a back to the future moment where it's like, you

2:13:12

know, this

2:13:13

is, they have no idea.

2:13:15

And, and my people thinking of everyone else back home, I was like, don't

2:13:20

realize that

2:13:21

these people are still out there in the jungle living like this.

2:13:24

Right.

2:13:25

And probably in the dense, dense, dense forest, there's probably many more of

2:13:29

them.

2:13:29

There are many more of them.

2:13:31

In fact, while we, yeah, while we were watching them out front, there was a

2:13:34

terrifying moment

2:13:35

where the, we heard something behind us and it was, which we never saw them,

2:13:39

but the women

2:13:40

came light foot in behind and they pulled up all the yucca and the bananas and

2:13:44

they were

2:13:44

raiding.

2:13:45

And so for a second, we were like, there's an ambush.

2:13:47

And everyone was like turning the shotguns away from the river.

2:13:50

And they were like, we thought there was going to be arrows flying.

2:13:52

So like my guy, Ignacio grabs me and like put me down and we were hiding behind

2:13:57

trees,

2:13:57

waiting for it.

2:13:58

And it was like, no, no, no.

2:13:58

They're just stealing all of the fruit and all of the crops.

2:14:01

And they just raided our, our, our whole village.

2:14:04

Wow.

2:14:05

But I really, I really did feel like, you know, like you, you go, imagine what

2:14:08

it would

2:14:08

be like to go back and see the Comanjis, watch them riding across the plains

2:14:13

after the

2:14:13

buffalo.

2:14:14

And it's like, we can't.

2:14:15

But in this case, they were right there.

2:14:18

Right.

2:14:19

Right.

2:14:19

And now, and now, now that these videos are going out across the world, it's

2:14:23

like,

2:14:24

look, we're trying to explain to people, you know, first of all, there's a lot

2:14:27

of those,

2:14:27

you know, you know exactly what kind of prey people are like, leave them alone.

2:14:30

And it's like literally where the people trying to make sure that they get left

2:14:33

alone.

2:14:34

Like that's our job.

2:14:35

Yeah.

2:14:35

You got to ignore those folks.

2:14:36

Yeah.

2:14:36

You, you, especially you, you're not the type of person that's interfering with

2:14:40

their

2:14:40

life at all.

2:14:41

No.

2:14:41

And by giving them the bananas, you're help.

2:14:43

You're literally helping them.

2:14:44

Well, and again, I was a witness.

2:14:46

Right.

2:14:46

That was happening between the tribes and the tribes.

2:14:48

Right.

2:14:49

Right.

2:14:49

And so, and so, but, but, you know, for all the, all the indigenous cultures

2:14:54

that have

2:14:54

been destroyed in, in the last few centuries, we can, we can do it right for

2:15:00

once.

2:15:01

We can actually respect these people.

2:15:03

If they want to come out, they can come out.

2:15:05

If they want to adapt, they can, but they need to have forests to live in.

2:15:09

Right.

2:15:10

In order to make that decision.

2:15:11

Right.

2:15:11

And so that's where it's like.

2:15:13

How can they make an informed decision?

2:15:14

How could they, how can they adapt?

2:15:17

I mean.

2:15:17

Well, I think it would be very slow.

2:15:18

The gap is so crazy.

2:15:19

I think it'd be slow.

2:15:20

I think it'd be a few more banana exchanges, maybe without the, the, the arrow

2:15:24

shot afterwards.

2:15:25

And then maybe it starts to be like, okay, you guys can come here.

2:15:28

Maybe, maybe, maybe the, the communities teach them how to grow bananas.

2:15:32

Right.

2:15:32

Maybe they don't want to come, but they want a few things.

2:15:34

Right.

2:15:34

You know, maybe they want a couple of machetes cause it'll just help.

2:15:37

Uh huh.

2:15:38

You know, and they want to keep to themselves.

2:15:39

Maybe.

2:15:40

But I mean, other than them, the, the thought of the most uncontacted people is

2:15:45

North Sentinel

2:15:46

Island.

2:15:46

Yeah.

2:15:47

And North Sentinel Island, the, the interesting part of that is one of the

2:15:50

reasons why they're

2:15:51

so distrustful of people is because they had been contacted in the 1800s.

2:15:56

And it was bad.

2:15:56

Yeah.

2:15:57

By a fucking pervert.

2:15:58

There was a guy named commander Maurice Vidal Portman, who was a, like a

2:16:04

explorer slash pervert.

2:16:06

And the reason why I say that is like, job title, this guy had like weird

2:16:10

journal logs where

2:16:12

he was like, this one has testicles the size of a sparrow's egg.

2:16:15

Like he would dress them up like Roman soldiers and take pictures of them.

2:16:19

They kidnapped a few of them and then they gave a bunch of people the flu and a

2:16:22

bunch of people

2:16:23

died.

2:16:23

And so they had this immense distrust for people because of this guy and his

2:16:30

explorations onto

2:16:31

that Island, that Island and other islands like it.

2:16:34

So they, they don't have a written language, right?

2:16:37

These people, there's no evidence they have fire.

2:16:38

So there's this story of these, because you know, it's incredibly wet

2:16:43

environment.

2:16:44

So they, they have this stories that they probably have these oral traditions

2:16:49

of these white people

2:16:50

that come and fuck up everything.

2:16:51

So when someone shows up on a boat, like there's been a few instances where

2:16:55

people were killed.

2:16:56

Obviously that missionary a few years back, but not just him, there, there's a

2:17:01

boat that

2:17:01

sank there.

2:17:02

So it washed the shore and sank and they were headed to go kill those people

2:17:07

when they were

2:17:08

rescued.

2:17:10

And now we've spotted them.

2:17:12

We people have spotted them with metal and they believe the metal they got was

2:17:16

salvaged

2:17:17

from the boats.

2:17:18

Yeah.

2:17:19

So they got pieces of metal and yeah.

2:17:21

So this, this is the boat that, that shipwrecked in 1981, a cargo ship named

2:17:27

the Primrose ran aground

2:17:29

on the coral reef surrounding North Sentinel.

2:17:31

The crew radioed for assistance and settled for a long wait.

2:17:35

But in the morning they saw 50 men with bows on the beach building makeshift

2:17:39

boats to swim

2:17:40

out to them and fuck them up.

2:17:41

Yeah.

2:17:42

I mean, they have a severe distrust, obviously, you know, people.

2:17:47

So I was on the Underman islands, which is right next to these.

2:17:49

That guy, respectable lawyer on Twitter.

2:17:51

He's the one I got the information from.

2:17:53

He documented the whole story of, if you scroll all the way up, he'll talk

2:17:57

about that guy.

2:17:58

Maurice Vidal.

2:17:59

See, look at how he dressed.

2:18:01

That's the guy.

2:18:02

Yeah.

2:18:02

So that fucking creep.

2:18:04

Look at him.

2:18:05

He looks like a pervert.

2:18:06

Oh, come on.

2:18:06

So he's hanging out with these guys.

2:18:07

They should have known he was a pervert.

2:18:09

Look at him.

2:18:09

Look at him.

2:18:10

Look at his dress.

2:18:11

They probably didn't want to.

2:18:12

Wonderful testicles.

2:18:12

They probably didn't want to profile him.

2:18:13

Yeah.

2:18:14

So that's the dude.

2:18:15

Yeah.

2:18:16

He's from the English Royal Navy.

2:18:18

Yeah.

2:18:19

Portman.

2:18:19

Maurice Vidal Portman.

2:18:21

Yeah.

2:18:22

Dude, those guys look built.

2:18:24

Look at these guys fucking thrown.

2:18:26

Those guys be doing some sit-ups.

2:18:27

Well, they're out there hustling.

2:18:29

I went to the Andaman Islands, which is right out there.

2:18:32

That's where he originally landed?

2:18:34

Yeah.

2:18:34

And if you want to feel like you fell off the face of the earth, you go to the

2:18:37

Andaman Islands.

2:18:37

First of all, beautiful.

2:18:38

I think if you're still like this, you can only get there from the Indian city

2:18:43

of Chennai

2:18:43

or Calcutta because it's an Indian territory.

2:18:45

They limit who can travel there.

2:18:47

And they've brought elephants there because they didn't used to have bulldozers

2:18:54

and stuff.

2:18:55

So the British brought elephants by boat.

2:18:57

And there's these old archival photos of them lifting off of like pirate ships,

2:19:03

lifting elephants on the rigging and then putting them.

2:19:06

And now the Andaman Islands have elephants.

2:19:08

Whoa.

2:19:09

And there's still people riding around on the elephants, you know, like moving

2:19:12

trees off the road and doing things.

2:19:13

That's crazy.

2:19:14

But when you go from one place to the other place, exactly what you said,

2:19:18

because they don't want human safaris, because they want to protect these

2:19:21

indigenous people,

2:19:22

you have to go with a police escort to cross the island because you have to go

2:19:26

through.

2:19:27

And the police watch you like a hawk.

2:19:29

And I, you know, I take a picture of everything.

2:19:31

I take 300 pictures a day on my phone.

2:19:33

Look at that.

2:19:35

No, see if you can see elephants being lifted off of ships.

2:19:38

There's a bunch of pictures here that are crazy.

2:19:41

They're pulling logs.

2:19:42

I mean, but this is, you know, elephants moving logs happens all the time.

2:19:46

But there's literally a picture of the elephants up on the riggings.

2:19:48

Wow.

2:19:49

And, uh, but man, you drive through areas where there's just these tiny little

2:19:53

people with bows and arrows and they're still out there.

2:19:56

Um, I, I, I got to go swimming with an elephant there.

2:20:00

Yeah.

2:20:00

Wow.

2:20:01

You got to.

2:20:01

That's so dope.

2:20:02

Look at the elephant swimming.

2:20:03

How cool is that?

2:20:04

Yeah.

2:20:05

Wow.

2:20:06

That's fucking awesome.

2:20:07

There you go.

2:20:08

Whoa.

2:20:08

Look at that.

2:20:09

That's them.

2:20:09

That's nuts.

2:20:09

Lifting the elephants.

2:20:11

The elephant's probably like, what the fuck am I doing in the air?

2:20:12

Yeah.

2:20:13

Look at that.

2:20:14

They have to blindfold him?

2:20:15

No, he's not blindfolded.

2:20:16

He's just painted.

2:20:17

You know, they probably should have.

2:20:20

But back then.

2:20:21

Well, back then.

2:20:21

Maybe the elephant would freak out.

2:20:23

Look at that.

2:20:23

Look at that.

2:20:24

Boy, it takes so much for an elephant to freak out and fucking kill people.

2:20:27

Wow.

2:20:28

There's a horrible video of this guy's abusing an elephant.

2:20:31

Like, he's a trainer and he's like, keeps whacking the elephant.

2:20:33

And then the elephant goes, that's enough.

2:20:35

Yep.

2:20:36

And just stomps him into a pancake.

2:20:38

Yep.

2:20:38

Or that, that video I sent you with the tiger, the one, the tiger.

2:20:42

Which one?

2:20:43

Where the tiger mauls the guy and you're like, that's terrible.

2:20:46

He kills him.

2:20:46

And then the second shot is they show the guy and he's still alive, but he's

2:20:50

got slashes

2:20:51

down to his skull.

2:20:52

Like, just don't.

2:20:55

Just, I mean, these animals are, you just don't push them.

2:20:59

Yeah.

2:20:59

Especially not an elephant.

2:21:00

Well, human beings just want to fuck with everything.

2:21:03

That's part of why we're on every fucking square inch of the earth, practically.

2:21:07

We want to fuck with everything.

2:21:09

You know, it's, we're the weirdest animal ever because we're on every fucking

2:21:13

continent.

2:21:13

We're everywhere.

2:21:14

There's not another animal like us.

2:21:16

No.

2:21:17

You know?

2:21:17

No.

2:21:17

And, you know, all of us came from Africa, which is even nuttier, right?

2:21:22

Yeah.

2:21:22

So we emanated from Africa and just spread out all over the world.

2:21:26

Yeah.

2:21:26

As soon as we figured out how to float.

2:21:28

As soon as we figured out how to float.

2:21:29

How to hike and how to wear warm clothes.

2:21:31

We just kept moving.

2:21:32

And now are we going to figure out how to not destroy the systems that keep us

2:21:36

alive?

2:21:37

Right.

2:21:38

And now we're talking about doing the same thing on other planets.

2:21:41

We're talking about it.

2:21:42

But way before we start worrying about other planets, I want to make sure that

2:21:46

this planet works.

2:21:47

Yeah, man.

2:21:47

I mean, I'm just, I'm so, I'm just, it drives me crazy how quickly everyone's

2:21:51

going.

2:21:51

I just, in the, in the, when I come back to society so quickly, we're like, it's

2:21:57

on people's minds.

2:21:58

They're talking about this stuff and I'm going, guys, the ocean is filled with

2:22:02

trash.

2:22:03

Like the Amazon is burning.

2:22:04

I'm like, can we just fix this?

2:22:06

And there's areas where we have, I mean, you know, this, like they brought

2:22:08

rules back to

2:22:09

Yellowstone, like New York's waters are getting cleaner.

2:22:11

The humpbacks are coming back, but, but everyone's so, I mean, but we haven't

2:22:15

actually, when we

2:22:16

get to Mars, talk about it all day, but it's like until then, I just feel like

2:22:22

we, we are

2:22:22

so overwhelmed with serious problems here and the last chance in history to fix

2:22:28

those.

2:22:28

And so there's an amazing opportunity.

2:22:30

And I feel like people are so like this, this modern nothingness that people

2:22:35

feel where

2:22:36

it's like, oh, it's the end of times.

2:22:38

And it's like, dude, this is the most exciting time.

2:22:39

You can fly everywhere.

2:22:41

You got information at your fingertips.

2:22:42

There's more people than ever before working to make good in the world, to help

2:22:45

people,

2:22:46

to save animals, to restore ecosystems.

2:22:49

And it's like, so I get confused when I come back from what, what I feel is

2:22:53

like battle.

2:22:54

And I'm on this mission for 20 years to do this one thing.

2:22:58

And people are like, I'm just scrambled and delirious.

2:23:00

And I'm like, go outside.

2:23:02

Yeah.

2:23:03

Get off your phone.

2:23:04

Put your phone down.

2:23:05

Go to the mountains.

2:23:06

That John Muir thing.

2:23:07

I'm, you know, to the mountains, the mountains are calling and I must go.

2:23:09

Like, go, close your phone, go touch grass for a while.

2:23:14

Actually, that was one of the favorite, I forget what I, I posted a video of me

2:23:17

with this huge

2:23:18

anaconda around me and I'm holding her head.

2:23:19

It was a 20 foot anaconda.

2:23:21

One of the comments was this guy.

2:23:22

He was like, dude, you've touched enough grass.

2:23:24

Go back inside.

2:23:25

Go watch Netflix.

2:23:27

Yeah.

2:23:28

He's like, that's enough.

2:23:28

You're the opposite.

2:23:31

You've gone too far.

2:23:32

You've gone too far.

2:23:34

Interesting use of free will.

2:23:35

Well, it's fascinating to me when people were trying to save things and by

2:23:39

saving things,

2:23:40

they don't realize that they're actually fucking things up far worse than

2:23:43

saving them.

2:23:44

Well, there's a good example.

2:23:46

I think it's the Mojave Desert where they just now, California and all their

2:23:51

infinite wisdom,

2:23:52

decided to build this immense solar farm out in the desert.

2:23:58

I saved it.

2:23:59

I'll send it to you, Jamie.

2:24:00

It is so crazy.

2:24:01

So they decided to build this immense solar farm.

2:24:04

It turns out this solar farm, because it's got mirrors that point towards these

2:24:09

solar panels,

2:24:10

it's incinerating 6,000 birds a year.

2:24:16

Incinerating 6,000 birds a fucking year.

2:24:23

Which is like, what does that even mean?

2:24:25

Like, how is that even...

2:24:26

So it's a death ray.

2:24:27

A fucking death ray.

2:24:29

God, I know I saved it.

2:24:31

Where did I save it?

2:24:32

I got it, though.

2:24:32

Oh, you got it?

2:24:33

I mean, I don't know which article you got.

2:24:35

It's okay.

2:24:36

Pull up any of the articles.

2:24:38

But, I mean, when you look at it, it heats up to a thousand fucking degrees.

2:24:44

The Mojave Desert.

2:24:47

Yeah.

2:24:48

Well, they just shut it down.

2:24:49

So it's concentrated sunlight.

2:24:50

Solar power towers use mirrors to focus sunlight onto a receiver, creating

2:24:54

extremely high temperature.

2:24:56

The problem is they're fucking killing birds like a motherfucker.

2:25:00

Just like those ugly windmill farms, those things are a blight on the face of

2:25:05

the earth.

2:25:06

When you drive to South Texas, a buddy of mine has a ranch down there.

2:25:10

Look at that.

2:25:11

Mojave Desert solar plant kills 6,000 birds a year.

2:25:15

I think that too.

2:25:15

That's from 2016.

2:25:16

They just recently shut it down.

2:25:18

They've spent billions on this fucking thing.

2:25:20

And it's not generating nearly the amount of solar power that they were hoping.

2:25:23

It turns birds into fucking fireballs instantly.

2:25:28

But when you drive down to South Texas, they have these – that's what it

2:25:31

looks like.

2:25:32

Isn't that crazy?

2:25:33

Look at that.

2:25:34

Isn't that nuts?

2:25:35

Yeah, we've got to stop spreading out.

2:25:36

We're so stupid.

2:25:37

We've got to stop spreading out.

2:25:38

But that's like, who said that's a good idea?

2:25:40

And counterintuitively, nuclear power is like the best for the environment.

2:25:45

Yeah.

2:25:45

Which is people think, no, Three Mile Island, no.

2:25:49

They've got to just – you know what, they just call it something else.

2:25:51

If you just – if you just rebrand it, stop calling it nuclear.

2:25:53

Well, they just have to realize that the old – like the Fukushima plants and

2:25:56

they fucked

2:25:57

the whole area up forever.

2:25:59

Those are old.

2:26:00

That's a plant that I think went live in the 1970s.

2:26:03

Like the new technology, you can have solar power and it's – or excuse me,

2:26:08

nuclear power

2:26:09

and it's clean.

2:26:10

But I think people are scared of the word nuclear.

2:26:12

I'm saying if you came out and you called it like a something-something plant,

2:26:15

they'd go,

2:26:16

We've got to get over it.

2:26:16

We've got to get over that hump, you know.

2:26:19

But that's – it's just human beings.

2:26:23

But there's this constant battle, right?

2:26:26

There's a battle of good and evil.

2:26:28

Yes, there is.

2:26:29

And there's also a battle of ignorance and information.

2:26:32

And it goes back and forth.

2:26:34

And the only way to educate people is sometimes you have these brave people

2:26:38

that are responding

2:26:39

to this intense amount of ignorance and they have to go out there and say,

2:26:43

No, that's not it.

2:26:45

It's this.

2:26:46

And there's this huge societal narrative, this huge cultural narrative that

2:26:50

they have to fight against.

2:26:51

Which is almost impossible to undo.

2:26:54

I mean, when you realize there's something that everybody has wrong.

2:26:57

Right.

2:26:57

Or you realize that there's something that – I mean, the amount – because

2:26:59

then you've got to get the message to everybody.

2:27:02

Right.

2:27:02

How do you do that?

2:27:03

Right.

2:27:03

Then you've got to make them care about it.

2:27:05

Right.

2:27:05

And I mean, it's just – it's wild to –

2:27:08

But that's us.

2:27:09

That's the battle.

2:27:09

There's always this, like, I think you need those things in order for us to

2:27:13

push progress.

2:27:14

You need something to fight against.

2:27:16

Like, think about where you would be if you didn't have this thing to push

2:27:20

against.

2:27:21

Like, there's – it's not that the thing is good, but it is bad, but it

2:27:25

creates good people that push against it.

2:27:28

And this is the constant battle of the human spirit.

2:27:30

We're always engaged in this battle to right wrongs and to figure things out

2:27:35

and to make things better that are bad.

2:27:38

And then to realize that, oh, we're making it way worse.

2:27:41

Someone has to come along and course correct.

2:27:43

Yeah.

2:27:43

And then, you know, it's usually a few brave people that are pushing back

2:27:47

against this tidal wave of negativity and ignorance.

2:27:51

I think that the tidal wave of negativity is wild.

2:27:53

The grief is just – it's like a poison peddled by the darkness.

2:27:59

It's like they want you sad and disoriented.

2:28:01

And I just feel like so many people now, when I come back, they're downtrodden

2:28:06

by the – just the buzz of the news and everything.

2:28:10

And I'm like, listen, like, choose something that you care about and work on it.

2:28:14

Yeah.

2:28:14

Or just pick that one thing.

2:28:16

Be the good you want to see in the world.

2:28:17

Be the good you want to see in the world.

2:28:19

And it's like I'm in this unique position because I'm contacted now all day

2:28:23

long by people that want to help us protect the rainforest.

2:28:27

People who want to use that blueprint to do it somewhere else.

2:28:30

And we're on the cusp of doing this.

2:28:32

So I'm surrounded by – I get a lot of positive people with innovations,

2:28:36

people with ideas, people – I mean, even, you know, everyone says, oh, why

2:28:40

can't the billionaires?

2:28:41

And it's like we get people who have money and they come in and they're like, I'll

2:28:44

help you get that piece of land.

2:28:46

That'll be protected.

2:28:47

I get reinforced all the time.

2:28:50

People go, the world's going to shit.

2:28:51

And I'm like, the world's amazing.

2:28:52

People are helping.

2:28:54

Yeah.

2:28:55

You know, and it's like I've seen so much good done.

2:28:58

It really is all what you're focusing on.

2:29:00

If you're focusing on – that's the very thing – unique thing about today is

2:29:04

that you're inundated with so much information.

2:29:07

And we generally tend to gravitate towards the things that are terrifying and

2:29:12

the things that are dangerous, that scare us.

2:29:15

And so you're paying attention to the news of literally 8 billion people.

2:29:21

Which is not natural.

2:29:22

It's not normal.

2:29:22

We're supposed to know about our village and maybe the next village.

2:29:26

And so, like, that's one – you know, I had a friend, you know, did you hear

2:29:29

about the flood that happened in Bangladesh?

2:29:31

I was like, what are you – you know, my sympathy.

2:29:34

But, like, there's always a flood happening.

2:29:36

The world is gigantic.

2:29:37

There's 8 billion people.

2:29:38

Right.

2:29:39

And so, like, you know –

2:29:40

There's only so much you can pay attention to.

2:29:41

There's only so much you can pay attention to.

2:29:43

But if you have a phone, all the bad stuff is coming into your pocket all day.

2:29:48

Yeah, and I think a lot of the – it's funny because a lot of the people, like,

2:29:52

the adults are – people are worried about the kids.

2:29:55

I think the adults are worse.

2:29:57

Yeah, a lot of them.

2:29:58

Yeah, and a lot of them, they're searching for meaning.

2:30:02

And so they find meaning in activism or in pseudo-activism and yelling about

2:30:09

things online and then maybe going out into the street and screaming at people.

2:30:14

And they think that that gives meaning to their life.

2:30:17

You know, there's a lot of people that just feel, like, really lost.

2:30:21

And this strange concrete culture, concrete and electronic culture that we've

2:30:27

created, it doesn't give you the fulfillment that the natural world does.

2:30:32

I mean, I'm sure it's one of the draws that you have to the jungle is that

2:30:39

living out there in nature is wildly fulfilling because it's normal.

2:30:45

It's like it fills in all the slots that you have evolved to have, like, as a

2:30:53

human being.

2:30:54

We have always lived in coordination with nature up until fairly recently.

2:31:00

You know, if human beings have been alive in this forum for half a million

2:31:03

years, how long have we been in cities?

2:31:04

In cities.

2:31:05

How long have we been in even agriculture?

2:31:07

A few thousand years.

2:31:08

Temperature-controlled rooms.

2:31:09

Yeah, it's crazy.

2:31:10

With a little noise box constantly stressing us out.

2:31:12

Also, Wi-Fi and EMF signals.

2:31:15

I was just reading this fucking crazy thing.

2:31:17

Have you paid attention to this, Jamie, about the 49ers?

2:31:20

About San Francisco?

2:31:22

Isn't that fucking nuts?

2:31:24

It could be.

2:31:25

Yeah, go ahead.

2:31:25

They think it's real.

2:31:27

So there's a disproportionate amount of severe catastrophic injuries that come

2:31:32

out of San Francisco,

2:31:33

and their training facility is right outside this power station.

2:31:36

Oh, yeah.

2:31:37

Yeah.

2:31:37

I mean, way more Achilles tendon blown out, way more knees blown out, way more,

2:31:46

like, catastrophic ligament and tendon ruptures.

2:31:50

Like, and they've been talking about it since, like, the players started

2:31:54

talking about it in, like, 2012, I believe.

2:31:57

And people are like, oh, that's nonsense.

2:31:59

And now the stats are in, and you're looking at the amount of injuries that

2:32:03

come from this area.

2:32:04

It's like it's not normal.

2:32:06

No.

2:32:06

And so you think, what, they're getting weakened by the water, by the...

2:32:10

Electricity.

2:32:10

Electricity.

2:32:11

Yeah, by the EMF signal.

2:32:13

By the EMF.

2:32:13

I mean, it's...

2:32:15

Look, EMF signals, we know, disrupt human beings.

2:32:18

But to what extent?

2:32:19

Like, to what extent does LED lights, and to what extent?

2:32:23

Is it minimal?

2:32:24

Do you feel it?

2:32:24

Is it not?

2:32:25

Is it...

2:32:26

Does it have a long-term effect?

2:32:27

Does it take forever until it actually compounds?

2:32:30

But they're looking at the data from this one training facility, so you can

2:32:34

find something on it.

2:32:35

I'm looking at it.

2:32:35

Because a lot of stories have come out this week about it, where people are

2:32:38

starting to gather up all the data, and they're like, hey, this is not normal.

2:32:42

No.

2:32:43

Like, this is, like, a much higher percentage of severe injuries from this one

2:32:47

camp, which doesn't make any sense.

2:32:49

Well, it's like that Erin Brockovich thing, where it's like, you find a place

2:32:51

where a lot of people are getting the same kind of cancer, and it's like, there's

2:32:54

a reason.

2:32:55

So, what does it say here at the top of the article?

2:32:59

What's the article say?

2:33:01

It's just about the whole thing.

2:33:02

It explains stuff.

2:33:03

So, is it true?

2:33:05

What is this from?

2:33:05

How long ago was this?

2:33:06

Two weeks ago.

2:33:08

Yes, two days ago.

2:33:09

Okay.

2:33:09

The Injury Conspiracy Theory, and is it true?

2:33:12

So, what is this?

2:33:16

This is USA Today, which is like, eh.

2:33:18

I just skipped ahead to the...

2:33:21

The so-called mechanisms have not been established.

2:33:24

Many of the experiments are contradictory.

2:33:26

Many of the experiments have exposures that either don't relate specifically to

2:33:28

50, 60,000,

2:33:29

50, 60 hertz magnetic fields.

2:33:31

It's a topic that will likely resurface.

2:33:34

There are any major injuries during the Super Bowl at Levi's Stadium, February

2:33:38

8th in Santa Clara.

2:33:39

Is Santa Clara near there?

2:33:41

That's where they play the game.

2:33:42

That's where they play the game?

2:33:43

But is that the training facility?

2:33:44

The idea is that it's near the training facility.

2:33:47

Right.

2:33:47

And I don't...

2:33:48

That's again, that's...

2:33:49

This is...

2:33:50

So, that's where the electrical substation is, and there's the field.

2:33:53

I mean, cut the shit.

2:33:54

Whoa.

2:33:55

That can't be good.

2:33:56

So, it's literally radiating onto them.

2:33:58

That can't be good.

2:33:59

But I don't think...

2:34:00

But I don't think it's going to affect the game.

2:34:02

You know what I'm saying?

2:34:03

I think it's like being there all the time, practicing there all the time, is

2:34:07

what's going

2:34:08

to weaken their bodies.

2:34:09

Without checking, I don't know.

2:34:10

Unless that's where they practice, I don't see a large practice facility.

2:34:14

Oh, look at the fucking multi-use fields.

2:34:15

I know.

2:34:16

They don't practice on those fields, generally.

2:34:17

They practice inside.

2:34:18

Right.

2:34:18

But they use the fields.

2:34:19

I mean, they must practice there.

2:34:20

It could be...

2:34:21

This could just be a park.

2:34:22

That's why I've got to look up where they practice.

2:34:23

Right, right, right, right.

2:34:24

The LA Rams don't practice next to SoFi Stadium, you know, they have...

2:34:27

I can't imagine it's good for you.

2:34:29

I mean, there's also...

2:34:30

Okay, we'll find this out.

2:34:32

Is there any truth to power lines and people living under power lines having

2:34:38

increased rates

2:34:39

of cancer?

2:34:40

Because I've heard that that's true.

2:34:41

Yeah.

2:34:42

I mean, in Environmental College, that was...

2:34:44

There's numerous giant class action lawsuits for people that were living under

2:34:49

high-tension

2:34:50

power lines.

2:34:51

And I mean, I actually...

2:34:52

I knew someone who...

2:34:53

I mean, I've been to the places where I did for my senior project I was doing,

2:34:57

where we

2:34:57

went to the areas where they were fracking.

2:34:59

Remember that documentary where they were lighting the water on fire?

2:35:02

Oh, yeah.

2:35:02

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:35:03

Gasland.

2:35:03

Yeah.

2:35:04

Great documentary.

2:35:04

Yeah.

2:35:05

And those people were screaming.

2:35:07

They're trying to get the attention to say, this is not good.

2:35:10

And of course, the companies come in and they go, we'll give you $2 million.

2:35:12

$2 million before you let us drill on your land.

2:35:14

And these are people that could need the money.

2:35:16

Right.

2:35:17

And then a few years later, all of their kids have cancer.

2:35:20

Pull that back up again, please.

2:35:22

So we put it into our sponsor, Perplexity.

2:35:25

There's some limited evidence.

2:35:26

There's a small increase in childhood leukemia risk, very close high voltage

2:35:30

power lines.

2:35:31

But overall, the lick is weak, not clearly causal, and typically residential

2:35:36

exposures are considered

2:35:37

within safety guidelines.

2:35:38

See, the thing is, it's like, who is...

2:35:41

One of the things about Perplexity or any large language model is you've got to

2:35:46

get the information

2:35:47

from online and who's publishing this information.

2:35:50

So it's like, there's only so much of it that's available, but possibly carcinogenic

2:35:58

is a weak category.

2:36:01

So it says, International Agency for Research in Cancer classifies extremely

2:36:06

low-frequency magnetic

2:36:07

fields, like those from power lines, as possibly carcinogenic to humans, mainly

2:36:12

because of the

2:36:13

childhood leukemia data.

2:36:15

Fuck that, dude.

2:36:16

That's wild.

2:36:17

Yeah, just fuck that.

2:36:20

I would never buy a house that's near them.

2:36:22

What are you looking for?

2:36:23

I just realized that what that is.

2:36:25

It's a molar.

2:36:25

Yep.

2:36:25

I just realized that what that is.

2:36:26

This is from my buddy John Reese from Alaska.

2:36:28

That's that guy?

2:36:29

Yeah.

2:36:29

Yeah.

2:36:30

That's incredible.

2:36:31

Actually, no, this one is from Colossal.

2:36:33

So that's a...

2:36:34

This is the company that's bringing the woolly mammoth back.

2:36:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:36:37

Those guys.

2:36:38

This piece is from my buddy John Reese.

2:36:40

That's a molar.

2:36:41

That's cool.

2:36:42

Yeah.

2:36:42

That's a tooth.

2:36:43

That's gorgeous.

2:36:44

But that's how many of them they have that they can turn into art.

2:36:46

That they're just starting to make it into art.

2:36:48

Yeah.

2:36:48

Yeah.

2:36:48

I have a pool cue that has woolly mammoth ivory in it.

2:36:52

Dude, look at that.

2:36:53

Look at that texture.

2:36:53

I know.

2:36:53

Isn't that nuts?

2:36:54

That is so beautiful.

2:36:55

Something 10,000 years ago used that to mash down vegetables.

2:37:00

Wow.

2:37:00

That is a gorgeous piece.

2:37:01

You know about the boneyard, right?

2:37:03

That place.

2:37:03

No.

2:37:03

You were the first time you told me all about it.

2:37:05

Incredible place.

2:37:06

That's amazing.

2:37:07

Shout out to my boy John Reeves.

2:37:08

Yeah.

2:37:09

I would love to go there.

2:37:11

Oh, you should, dude.

2:37:12

I would love to.

2:37:12

That's just so fascinating.

2:37:14

Yeah.

2:37:14

The Colossal guys have been up there.

2:37:16

Yeah.

2:37:16

Quite a few people have been up there to explore.

2:37:18

I think either Grant, no, Randall.

2:37:21

Did Randall Carlson go up there?

2:37:22

I think he's either gone there or is going there.

2:37:25

Yeah, you got to make the intro for me.

2:37:26

I would love to go see that guy.

2:37:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:37:29

I'll set that up.

2:37:30

He's always trying to get me to go out there too.

2:37:31

I just don't have the time.

2:37:32

But what a phenomenal place.

2:37:34

By the way, he's found a new site.

2:37:35

He's found a new site up there that has more bones.

2:37:38

Yeah.

2:37:39

I mean, you're talking about an area that's only about four to six acres that

2:37:44

he's been exploring.

2:37:45

And he's got others.

2:37:46

Deposits, right?

2:37:47

It's like a-

2:37:48

Massive deposits.

2:37:49

Thousands of animals.

2:37:51

Yeah.

2:37:51

Including animals that weren't even supposed to be there.

2:37:53

Yeah.

2:37:54

That's so cool.

2:37:55

Crazy.

2:37:56

So cool.

2:37:56

And a thick layer of carbon that indicates that fucking place was on fire.

2:38:01

Mm.

2:38:01

Yeah.

2:38:02

Yeah.

2:38:03

I mean, when you find fossils in the wild, there's nothing like finding fossils.

2:38:07

I remember the first time I found a little shell.

2:38:08

And then, like I said, not that long ago, we found a seven-foot turtle shell.

2:38:13

Thick, thick, thick.

2:38:14

Like black, fossilized.

2:38:16

Mm.

2:38:17

In the river basin, in the Amazon.

2:38:19

The river was especially low.

2:38:20

And it was just, you know, it was half out.

2:38:22

Like a crashed alien spaceship.

2:38:23

Like it was just this huge thing.

2:38:25

And it was like, you get this sense.

2:38:27

You get that tactile, visceral sense of like, whoa, these used to be here.

2:38:33

You know what they found in China recently?

2:38:34

What'd they find?

2:38:35

They found dinosaur eggs that the inside of them is all crystals now.

2:38:40

Oh.

2:38:40

It's crystallized.

2:38:42

Is it like a crystallized baby velociraptor?

2:38:45

No, it's just basically all crystal.

2:38:47

Just crystal.

2:38:47

Like a geode.

2:38:48

Yeah.

2:38:48

But it's a dinosaur egg.

2:38:50

It's just over millions and millions of years.

2:38:53

They're probably making art out of that right now.

2:38:55

I don't know what they're doing with it.

2:38:56

Yeah.

2:38:57

I think it's fairly recent that this discovery, at least the article that I

2:39:00

read was fairly

2:39:01

recent about it.

2:39:02

But it's just crazy shit, man.

2:39:04

So much cool shit.

2:39:05

Oh, so much cool shit in the world.

2:39:06

We're on such a cool planet.

2:39:07

So here it is.

2:39:08

Yeah.

2:39:08

A 70-million-year-old dinosaur egg contains a sparkling crystal surprise.

2:39:15

Isn't that nuts?

2:39:16

Ooh.

2:39:17

It's turned into crystals.

2:39:18

How do you even know if that was a dinosaur egg?

2:39:19

Grapefruit-sized dinosaur egg from a fossil bed in China gave paleontologists a

2:39:24

huge surprise.

2:39:25

Rather than a dinosaur embryo or sediment, it was filled with sparkling

2:39:29

crystals of calcite lining

2:39:30

the inner shell, a natural dinosaur geode.

2:39:33

A rare occurrence provides researchers with unique information on the structure

2:39:37

of the shell.

2:39:38

In this case, a never-before-seen O-species?

2:39:42

O-O-S-O-O-O species, species of egg named, oh boy, good luck pronouncing that,

2:39:49

identified

2:39:50

in a 22 paper led by paleontologist Quing He of Anhui University in China.

2:39:58

Not only that, it's among the first dinosaur eggs, or evidence of any dinosaurs

2:40:04

for that

2:40:04

matter, found in the roughly 70 million year old upper Cretaceous Christian

2:40:10

formation of

2:40:11

the Quichon Basin, wow, that's insane, fucking A man, dinosaur eggs that are

2:40:18

filled with,

2:40:19

look at that, crystals, beautiful, it looks like a geode, it's a dinosaur egg,

2:40:26

nuts, that's

2:40:26

insane, nuts, that's wild, yeah, the world's a wild place, my brother, the

2:40:30

world's a really,

2:40:31

really wild place, and you know more than anybody, well, that's what, I've been

2:40:34

trying to see as

2:40:35

much of it as I can, and save as much of it as I can, it's been, it's been,

2:40:38

well, I'm glad

2:40:39

you're out there, and I'm glad you're still alive, because you freak me out

2:40:41

every now and

2:40:42

then when you send me messages, and I'm worried about your safety, and I need

2:40:45

someone to train

2:40:46

me to use a gun, I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ, oh, we're dealing with the narco

2:40:50

people, oh,

2:40:50

Jesus Christ.

2:40:52

Well, we're closer than we've ever have been, thank you for how much you've

2:40:56

been able to

2:40:57

help us get that message out, this, this, this book is 20 years of the wildest

2:41:03

shit, it's

2:41:03

the story of how, Jane, and how we, I went, how I met JJ, how we found the anacondas,

2:41:08

all

2:41:08

the, all the, everything that led to this, I mean, how, how, I mean, you talked

2:41:11

about when

2:41:12

you started out, I mean, just being a kid, and you have a dream, and I mean, I

2:41:17

went to the

2:41:17

Amazon, I just wanted to see the Amazon, that was, that was the dream, I never

2:41:21

in a million

2:41:22

years imagined that I'd get to go on these adventures, see these animals, and

2:41:26

then now

2:41:27

that we're on the cusp of protecting an entire river, I mean, the wildest

2:41:32

dreams that, that

2:41:33

me as a kid had, couldn't even touch this, and so it's, it's, it's, it's a fun

2:41:37

book to be sharing

2:41:38

with people.

2:41:39

Dope, my brother, and the book is Jungle Keeper, What It Takes to Change the

2:41:43

World,

2:41:44

Paul Rosalie, available now, thank you, my friend.

2:41:47

Yeah, I think you're in there, good, thank you.

2:41:49

Always great to see you.

2:41:50

It's the best.

2:41:50

Let's do it again.

2:41:51

Thank you, brother.

2:41:51

Thank you.

2:41:52

All right, bye, everybody.

2:41:54

Bye, everybody.