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John Mellencamp is a Grammy Award-winning singer-songwriter, musician, painter, and a 2008 inductee of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He has released more than two dozen albums over his career, including 2023’s “Orpheus Descending.” Mellencamp will embark on a landmark tour this summer, “Dancing Words Tour — The Greatest Hits,” which will take place across 19 U.S. cities. www.mellencamp.com/tour www.youtube.com/@JohnMellencamp
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Bill Kinison, Brother Sam: The Short, Spectacular Life of Sam Kinison
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
Okay, cool.
Why would I hate my tattoos?
Because you get older and they get all smudgy.
Mine are getting a lot of smudgy.
Yeah, look at this one.
It's pretty smudgy.
Pretty fucking smudgy.
I owned a tattoo parlor in, I don't know what year it was, mid-80s,
and they were illegal in Indiana.
But because it was me, they said, okay, leave him alone.
Really?
I remember when they were illegal in New York.
I went to Connecticut to get my first tattoo.
Yeah, I didn't know it was illegal, but I met this guy in L.A.
And he worked at Sunset, you know, where the Hyatt House is,
and there was a tattoo parlor right across the street.
Anyway, he was there.
And so I brought him to Bloomington because he wanted to get out of L.A.
And guess why they closed me down?
Why?
Fucking guy was a heroin addict.
I know.
And he did this tattoo one time, and I went over,
I just went over to the shop, I said, hey, let's do this little...
And he was all fucked up.
And it was just like, what's wrong with it, you know?
Because I didn't know.
I don't know anything about heroin addicts.
There wasn't a lot of heroin addicts back then.
That was a rare thing.
Now, I mean, think about how many people are...
Because of the Sackler family,
think of how many people are hooked on opiates today.
I mean, it's got to be.
Lots.
It's off the charts in comparison to what it was like in, you know, the 1980s.
I mean, I knew one guy that had a friend who did heroin.
That's it.
Well, I was at a...
The first time I saw somebody do heroin was...
I was in college, and there was a place called Bull Island
that tried to imitate Woodstock.
And me and my then wife and a kid, a little girl,
and my roommate who lived with us,
we're just walking down here, and we see this guy shooting up,
so we just thought, well, we'll watch.
Because he was just sitting right there,
and I mean, there was like 200,000 people there.
And he shot, and he went out.
And I looked at the guy I was with,
and he goes, we won't be doing this.
We're not going to do this.
I had a friend who was a longshoreman,
and he worked with this guy that every lunchtime,
he would go and score and sit in his truck and shoot up.
And that's what he did every lunch.
He was a functional heroin addict.
And he would show up for work every day, and he did his job.
But during lunchtime, during his hour, he would do heroin and just fucking find
his happy place,
and then an hour later go back to work.
And the one shot would last all day?
I don't know.
I don't know if he did heroin.
I didn't ask if he did heroin after that as well.
I'm assuming he probably did.
But he was a functional heroin addict.
Like, a guy kept a full job.
He was in the union.
And everybody knew.
This guy would go on his break, shoot up.
Last time I did drugs was 1973.
What was the reason you stopped?
My ear?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I used to like to smoke and drink whiskey.
And then I liked to fight.
Oh, that's a problem.
I couldn't whip anybody.
I mean, I couldn't.
But I loved the contact and the rush of, like, you know, starting the fight.
But so anyway, I was in college, and my roommate and I went to this downtown
bar,
which we'd never been to.
And I sat at the bar, and I would start these fights.
You know, just a prick.
And I was sitting next to this big guy, and for whatever reason,
I thought it was a good idea if I'd spit on him.
Oh.
One of those guys.
You know those guys that get drunk?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that was me.
So I did, and we went out back, and he left me in the alley like a wet rag.
I mean, he beat the shit out of me.
Beat the shit out of me.
And I was a hippie.
I had hair down to here.
And the guy, my roommate, was driving me home in an old pinto.
And I was leaning on the door like this.
I was so fucked up from getting beat up.
I mean, the oars around my face were this big.
And I was leaning on the door, and all of a sudden, he went over a railroad
track.
And I fell out of the car, got my hair wrapped around the jig-a-ma-flop that
holds the car.
And the guy that I'm with, drunk, driving, he didn't even know I fell out of
the car.
And I'm going, stop the car.
He went, oh.
And so I got up the next morning, and I looked at myself, and I was unrecognizable.
I had road rash on my arms.
My knees were all fucked up.
My face was beat up.
And I just said, you know, this drug and alcohol thing is not working for you.
And so I went and got all my hair cut off, not as short as yours, but not much
longer.
And that was it.
Well, you found your rock bottom.
Yeah.
That's what they say.
They say you need to find rock bottom.
I would never imagine that you would be the type of guy that would fuck with
people at a bar and spit on somebody and start a fight.
You just don't seem like that at all.
Well, I grew up in a small town, and there was not much to do in a small town.
You know, you would either find a girl or fight.
I figured you for the find the girl type of guy.
Well, you know, I did okay with that, but it didn't always work.
So, yeah.
Yeah, it was like, don't forget, Joe, it was like 1967, 66.
You weren't even born yet.
I was born in 67.
Yeah, so this was like 1967.
Wow.
So, you know, so from that time on until I turned 21.
I was 21 when I quit using drugs and quit smoking, quit drinking.
Wow.
And nothing since then?
Not a drop.
That's impressive.
Not a drop.
Well, you know, I think I've thought about it, and I think that I didn't really
like it that much.
You know, as much as I thought I did.
Well, you certainly didn't like the results, right?
One bad result will set you straight.
Yeah, will do you in.
Yeah.
You were a big part of my high school experience.
It was interesting because you, your song sort of introduced the idea of
nostalgia to me.
You know, I don't know what that means.
Well, when you were singing songs like Jack and Diane, it's like I was kind of
realizing as I was a very young guy listening to those great songs that there's
going to be like this is a weird time in life.
And there's going to be a time where you're going to look back on this.
And it's probably one of the best times of your life.
But even though it doesn't feel like it, it felt, you know, felt confusing and
weird.
And I remember thinking at the time, like, my God, like, is this as good as it
gets?
You know, some people look back on this weird, confusing time of adolescence as
the happiest moments of their life.
I'm like, I can't wait to get the fuck out of this time in my life.
And it's like, you know, you were singing from a position of like an everyman
position of, you know, you were, you were singing the style.
They were great fucking songs.
They had heart and there was, it was soul to them, but it was like, it was a
lot of sadness, you know, a lot.
Oh, yeah.
Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone.
And I was like, oh, Jesus Christ, life's got to go.
This is it.
This is it.
This is it.
Well, listen, I struggled with that probably like you did or he did.
You know, there's a point in a man's life where he feels like there's got to be
more to life than this.
I mean, I had huge hit records and, you know, very, very, very, very, very
lucky, very lucky.
You know, everything was, you know, just, I was just lucky.
And I would go home and I would think, I'm not happy.
There's got to be more to life than this.
And then guess what happened?
I got a little bit older and I found out there's not.
And I'm good at it.
I'm good at it.
So, you know, we're only on this earth for a few fucking minutes.
Quit feeling sorry for yourself and quit being confused and accept your
responsibilities and try to, you know, maintain some humility.
Which was a million miles away from me spitting on people.
Right.
In a bar.
What didn't you enjoy about being this enormous rock star in the early days of
MTV?
I mean, you were a rock star when it became a totally different thing because
it was like this visual thing that was in everyone's household now.
It wasn't as simple as, no, you were on The Tonight Show and you would sing
this musical segment.
And people would have to go see you live to go see you perform.
And all you got to see of guys in rock bands were their album covers.
You know, you would go to a record store and file through the records.
And if you liked the way a band looked, you would buy the record.
At least I would.
I would too.
Yeah.
And so, I forgot the question.
Well, I was just saying, like, what was it, what was not good about that?
I mean, what was that experience like being this enormous rock star that left
you feeling like you wanted more, that you weren't happy?
Well, I think that, for me, I think when that happens, it's the age you're at.
And I think it's a chemical imbalance in our brain.
And as we grow older, it kind of finds its way.
And like I said, I just woke up one day and just went, hey, this is all there
is, accept it, and try to show some humility and try to be good at it.
And I never thought about it again.
That's interesting.
Well, you're a snap out of it type of guy, right?
You snapped out of drugs and alcohol.
You snapped out of feeling sorry for yourself.
Yeah.
That's a good trait to have.
Well, I'm very lucky that, listen, Joe, you're looking at the luckiest fucking
guy you've ever interviewed.
I don't give a shit who you've interviewed.
I'm the luckiest guy you know.
I was born with spina bifida.
Do you know what that is?
I don't.
That's where you have a hole in your spine.
And the fluid and all of your nerve endings, like on me.
Look at the back of my neck.
Oh, wow.
You see that scar?
Oh, that's crazy.
Yeah.
That scar is huge.
That's 1951.
In 1951, you got that operation?
I was born with, you're born with spina bifida.
So what did they do to, what was that operation exactly?
Well, they had to, well, here's the story.
I was, my parents were only 20 years older than me.
So I was born deformed, and my parents didn't know what the fuck to do.
You know, what are we going to do with this kid?
So they just went like that to my grandmother.
Here, you take him.
And so I was in the hospital, and there were four other kids,
and there was a young doctor named Heinberger,
who was just a young neurosurgeon.
Don't forget, neurosurgery in 1951 was in its,
so he just said, well, we've got to try to do something with these kids.
And so he operated on all of us.
I was on one that lived.
Oh, boy.
You know, the fact that, and he charged my parents a dollar for the,
you know, because it was an experiment.
I was like a guinea pig.
And these other poor kids who had the same thing I did,
they all died within, you know, six months.
I remember seeing one girl that made it till she was 14,
and she was in a wheelchair.
I would see her at basketball games,
and my parents would go,
that's the other little girl that had the same operation you did.
And then she died.
So my whole life has been full of luck.
I mean, I'm not supposed to be.
What did they do during the operation?
What is the procedure?
Well, they have to cut your head off, for starters.
You know, they had to cut my head and lay it open to get to my spine,
and then they would push each individual nerve ending back down into my spine,
drain the fluid off, sew it back up, and make sure that everything was working.
And they told my parents, you know, look, here he is.
He's probably going to die, get encephalitis, and his head's going to fill up
with water.
We don't anticipate him living much more than six or seven months.
And I was, fuck, I think I was in fifth grade.
I didn't even know I'd had the operation,
and some kid in my class said,
Hey, Mallencamp, what's that big scar on the back of your neck?
Don't forget, now we're talking, you know, 1957, 58, 60, maybe.
I didn't even know there was a scar back there, you know.
Wow.
It wasn't like I was going.
And my parents never told me.
So I came home, and I asked my old man, I said,
Dad, what's with the scar on the back of my neck?
And he goes, Oh, don't worry about it.
You had an operation when you were born.
So I did it.
I played football.
I ran track.
I fought.
You know, I did everything that every other kid did without a thought of that.
Not until I got older and I started having panic disorder
that I thought maybe the panic disorder was from that operation.
How old when you started having panic disorder?
I was just out of college.
I couldn't leave the house.
I became what they call, what's that called, agoraphobia?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I had agoraphobia for about a year and a half.
And then I got a record deal, and I had to leave the house.
I mean, I was married in high school.
I got married in high school.
And the girl I was married to was five years older than me, you know.
How old were you?
18.
18?
Yeah.
You had a kid, right?
You had a kid real young?
Yeah, she's 50-something now.
Wow.
I have three girls and two boys.
Weren't you a grandfather when you were in your 30s?
Maybe.
I think you were, right?
Yeah.
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Because that oldest daughter of mine got married when she was like 19.
Wow.
Not much to do in a small town, man.
Yeah.
Not much to do.
So, that's the spina bifida.
But it never bothered you again other than the panic?
Were you performing when you were having the panic stuff?
Oh, man, I had been on stage in front of like 20,000 people and had a panic
attack.
Oy.
Yeah.
It's like, have you ever had one?
No.
You're lucky.
Because you feel like, uh, I can't breathe.
Mm.
My chest hurts.
And, uh...
I've seen it.
I've seen people have them.
It's horrific.
You can't do anything for them.
You're like, are you okay?
You think they're having a heart attack?
You think they're dying?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I've been on stage and I remember having to plant my feet and just power
through,
you know, in front of 20,000 people and it was awful.
Did it pass while you were on stage?
Uh, I don't know if it did.
I just remember it happening numerous times.
And then guess what happened?
I had a fucking real heart attack on stage at Jones Beach like 30 years later.
Oh, Jesus.
I know.
So, but you know what that heart attack led to?
I was, I just married Elaine, uh, Irwin, and we had two little boys and I got
to stay home.
Uh, cause I said, fuck it.
I'm going to die.
I didn't know about heart disease.
I'm going to die.
So I want to spend the last couple of years of my life with my boys who were
little teeny
guys, which I want to tell you a story about them and you.
Uh, and, uh, uh, uh, so I got to actually kind of not be in the music business,
which pleased
me.
Uh, how old were you when you had your heart attack?
Forty two.
Oh, geez.
And, uh, so I got to stay home.
I stayed home for three and a half years.
Elaine didn't model.
And we just, you know, we had TV shows we watched, which is unheard of in my
life.
You know, like, Hey, it's Thursday night.
Let's watch, let's watch this, you know, which is where you come in.
So the boys were little and I loved your show.
They loved your fucking show.
And I was kind of like, I don't know if the kids should be watching this, you
know, you
talking about fear factor.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know if the kids should be watching.
So I made a deal with them.
All right, you guys, you can watch this show, but you have to watch 60 minutes
too.
So if you're going to watch this, then you got to watch 60 minutes.
And they obliged, which surprised the hell out of me.
But it was like, dad, 60 minutes on.
Dad, fear factor's on.
I know.
So we would watch it together.
I mean, how lucky is that?
That, well, it sounds like it was a blessing in disguise.
Yeah.
Well, that's.
Yeah.
It gave you a pause.
You know what luck is?
What?
Thinking you're lucky.
Mm.
Thinking you're lucky.
Yeah.
What you think about yourself all comes true.
I wrote it in a song once.
What you think about yourself will come true.
Hmm.
So if you call yourself a dumbass, guess what?
You do it enough and you start, your brain starts believing it.
What caused your heart attack at such a young age?
Me being stupid.
Me being stupid.
I would go in and to get a physical and they'd go, John, your cholesterol is
off the charts.
It's at 400.
And I would go, am I all right now?
And they'd go, well, yeah, you're all right now.
Good.
Because I didn't want to get on medicine.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and statin drugs had just become, you know, just were invented.
You know, at that time, people started using statins and I didn't want to take
them.
I didn't know what they were.
But I know all about heart disease now.
Did you have plaque?
Did you have arterial plaque?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it runs in my family.
I have a sister that has, or she used to, I don't think she does anymore, but
her cholesterol
was a 500.
Imagine.
That's like, it's crazy.
Cholesterol is a very controversial subject now because people are starting to
try to sort
out what is the actual cause of heart disease.
And there's a lot of people that don't believe it is cholesterol.
They think it's arterial plaque.
And what is that stuff called?
Natto-kinesis?
I don't know how to pronounce it.
But there's a supplement, like an over-the-counter supplement that's supposed
to be able to eliminate arterial
plaque in a very profound way that they're just starting to realize.
I don't know.
It's clogging of it.
Listen, I was in New York once with a girl.
And I went to the doctor with her.
She was an actress.
And she was getting a physical and she wanted me to go, so I went with her.
And she went to the best doctor in New York City.
And I found myself alone with that doctor.
And I said, so the doctor in Bloomington just put me on metformin.
What's the side effects for metformin?
And this guy, Joe, is the guy.
He went longevity.
And he said, if it was up to me, I'd put the entire United States on metformin
and a statin.
Because the fucking food we eat is terrible.
It's processed.
It's this and that.
You know, and he just said, you know, the human body was not meant to eat this
crap.
That's a fact.
Yeah.
I think the solution is probably eating food that you're meant to eat.
But metformin is one of those drugs that longevity doctors recommend.
I've never been on it.
But I know quite a few people that have.
I think, isn't it a diabetes drug initially?
Yeah.
And my mom died of diabetes.
So I was always borderline.
And I'm still borderline.
And this was.
She'd get type 1 or type 2?
Well, she started out with 2.
And then she paid no attention to it.
Went and take her medicine.
We'd drive by Krispy Kreme.
And she'd go, don't kill your dad.
Okay.
And she'd get a half a dozen, you know, Krispy Kremes and eat them.
And it's just like, hmm.
That's where it's at.
It's the food.
It's a horrible thing that we've done to this country.
You know, there's.
I mean, this is the most controversial thing about RFK Jr., I guess.
Or one of the most controversial things is the elimination of all the stuff
that's already eliminated in a lot of European countries.
I had a friend come here from Europe who had not ever been to the United States
and got sick.
Just from eating.
Just eating our food.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
Just our bread.
What is that?
That supplement?
You had it right.
How do I say it?
I don't think of how you were saying it.
Can you find out what it's supposed to do?
Like what?
Because there's a recent study.
There it is.
Okay.
So, yeah, that's it.
So, yeah, that's it.
Natokinase supplementation can significantly reduce the size of existing arterial
plaques and slow the progression of arteriosclerosis.
I never say that word.
I never say that.
I never say that word.
I never say that word.
I never say that word.
Artheriosclerosis.
No.
Atherosclerosis?
Whatever.
Whatever.
Particularly at higher doses.
Natokinase and arterial plaque reduction.
Multiple clinical trials provide evidence that natokinase, an enzyme derived
from fermented Japanese food NATO, has a positive effect on arterial sclerosis,
hardening, and narrowing of the arteries due to plaque buildup.
Yeah, so folks, go take that stuff.
High-dose supplement shrinks arterial plaque by 36%.
Very interesting stuff.
Yeah.
And it's a very common supplement.
It's an easy-to-get supplement, and, you know, it comes from fermented food.
Mm-hmm.
Well, you know, I've watched a lot of things about the food that we eat, and—
Terrible.
Terrible.
Well, a bunch of monsters decided to make more money, and the way they make
more money is to throw a bunch of preservatives and bullshit and stuff into
food so that it keeps their shelf life as long as possible.
Oh, yeah.
You've heard those stories about taking a hamburger that you would buy at a
very popular store and just putting it in a box and leaving it for five years,
and five years later, it's—
Oh, yeah.
Mike, some of my grandkids were at my house on Defusky, and they had an ice
cream sandwich, and they only had half of it.
And it sat there for three hours and did not melt.
Yeah, I've seen those.
Yeah, that's not ice cream.
That's not ice cream.
I don't know what the fuck's in there, but it's not regular ice cream.
The Burger King—or the McDonald's hamburger thing is nuts.
Because what is the longest that that guy—there's one guy that's had one on a
shelf at his house for—God, I want to say it's close to 20 years or something
crazy like that.
It's just sitting there.
And you would think that he got it five hours ago.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we're supposed to be eating that.
Yeah.
And for a lot of people, that's a big portion of their diet is fast food, which
is just crazy.
You're just sucking down all these chemicals and preservatives.
Because if something can not rot, can sit there and not rot—
It's a quarter pound if it's 30 years old, it says.
It's a quarter pound if it's 30 years old.
Wow.
That is insane.
Yeah.
That's insane.
That's craziness.
Wow.
Yeah.
Our food source—and I don't know about RFK Jr.—you know, I don't follow
what he says or listen.
I try not to listen to much politics.
Good for you.
You know why?
That's another good way to not have a heart attack.
Well, you know why?
Because it's all—you know, I was a hippie.
Mm-hmm.
And I grew up thinking, you know, that anybody over 30 was the enemy.
Right.
And, you know, it's kind of like—I remember when Kennedy was shot, I asked my
dad—I go, do you—you know, I was like a kid.
I go, do you really think one guy did it?
And he just looked at me and went, what do you think?
And that was the whole—his whole answer.
Wow.
Well, he knew it back then.
That's interesting.
Because it took a long—it took until Dick Gregory brought the Zapruder film
on the Geraldo Rivera show, which was—I think it was 12 years after Kennedy's
assassination—that people realized that he probably had gotten shot from the
front.
Yeah.
Because his head went back into the left.
Yeah.
And I've seen that.
And I remember—my dad was a young Democrat, you know, and so he was involved
a lot with the Democratic Party back then.
And I'd ask him questions, and he never would really give me answers.
He would just give me looks.
It was kind of like—and he knew the look.
It was just like, uh, what do you think, John?
You really think somebody did that?
You know, figure it out for yourself.
Yeah, not much has changed.
And that's why I don't watch—I don't, you know, I used to be very politically
minded and cared about what politicians said.
I don't give a fuck what they said.
I don't trust any of them.
I don't like any of them.
Not that I don't like them.
Right.
It's just that I don't—you know, it's just hard to believe anything that
anybody says because everybody's spinning everything in such a way that it's
just like for their purposes, you know, so, you know.
And unfortunately, we're more aware of it now than ever before.
There's less trust in politics now than there's ever been, and then there's
more people talking about politics than there's ever been.
There's more polarization.
I mean, I don't know what it was like when you were a kid, but when I was a kid,
there wasn't this polarization between people that were conservative and people
that were liberal.
Like, you could hang out and talk to each other.
You didn't—they didn't hate each other.
They just thought the other person was a fool for having a different opinion
than them.
But there wasn't hate like there is today.
Well, here's the way you got to look at it.
This is that when you used to vote, you would go inside a place, and they would
shut the curtains, and you would vote, and that was your fucking business.
Yep.
It's nobody else's business.
So, like, you know, it's like, you know, I'm for anybody that's doing good.
If you're doing good and you're not hurting somebody, go, man.
But, you know, I'm not for cheating and, you know, how about a little morality
and integrity and what you're saying and doing?
That would be nice.
It would be nice.
Well, it's never been that way.
No, never.
It's never been that way.
I mean, in the 60s, when I was a hippie, I mean, people think that this is,
like, really bad.
No, it was really bad when fucking Russia had missiles in Cuba, and it was
really bad when kids with long hair were getting shot at Kent State.
I mean, it was really the separation of adults and kids.
You know, there was a change that was happening.
And, of course, the change happened, and all my generation did was get to wear
blue jeans to work.
That's about all we accomplished.
Well, the change was because it was the first generation that realized that the
war that they were being sold was bullshit.
Yeah.
You know, the people that were involved in World War I and World War II, they
thought they were stopping the world from an evil dictator taking over and just
ruining the world.
That's what we were – in World War II, the United States was fighting Hitler.
You can't get a more evil person that's leading an army that you want to fight
against than that guy, right?
So everybody felt like that was a just war.
We came back from that war victorious.
America had national pride.
We did it.
We're the good guys.
But then all of a sudden, we're in Vietnam.
Like, what the fuck are we doing in Vietnam?
It didn't make any sense.
Well, back up, Joe.
What do you think the Civil War was fought about?
The Civil War?
Yeah.
Well, slavery was a big one.
No.
No?
Ports.
Ports.
They fought – it was fought over ports.
The port in Savannah, Georgia was the biggest port in America, and the ports in
Boston, New York, were struggling.
And the north said, hey, why don't you guys send some of that our way?
You guys got more than you can handle.
And they said, fuck you, no.
No, we're not sending you any of our stuff.
And they just kind of went, well, then fuck you.
We're going to come down and take it.
But how are we going to get the American people to get behind that?
Slaves.
We'll say it's to free the slaves.
Really?
Yeah.
I have a house in the south, and that's what it was about.
It was about the ports.
Slavery was just an excuse because nobody cared about black people, north or
south.
Wow.
So you think that if they had just spread the wealth a little bit, that that
would not have happened and slavery would have still continued?
Don't you think that – I mean, there was already a distaste of slavery
because it wasn't ubiquitous in the north.
But it was.
In the north it was?
Yeah.
I mean, Lincoln had slaves.
Right, back then, but not in the 1860s when they were fighting the Civil War.
He was president.
Really?
He had slaves when he was fighting in the war?
Yeah.
I wasn't aware of that.
Yeah.
A lot of people in the north, you know, they weren't – they hadn't spun it to
be so cruel as the south was, apparently.
Well, there was more in the south, right, because of plantations and –
Yeah.
So here it is.
Abraham Lincoln never personally owned slaves.
This is according to Perplexity, which is our AI sponsor, which is always very
accurate.
Either before or during his presidency, according to mainstream historical
scholarship, claims that he had slaves through inheritance or marriage come
from fringe or highly disputed sources and are not accepted by most
professional historians.
That's me.
Lincoln was born in Kentucky, raised in Indiana and Illinois, all as a non-slave
owner, working as a laborer, a lawyer, and a politician.
He was a really good wrestler, too.
Being related to slaveholders did not legally make those enslaved people his
property, and the best documented homes Lincoln himself maintained in Illinois
and Washington employed free servants, not slaves.
Okay, where the ideas are from?
Hold on for a second.
Let me stop for a second.
You can call it what you want.
Free servants, call it what you want.
Well, they were free, and they were getting paid.
It means like you said you had a housekeeper.
It was still a minstrel show, no matter how you got it.
Okay.
Some modern writers and websites argue Lincoln inherited or ordered, this is
where the idea Lincoln had slaves came from, websites argued Lincoln inherited
or ordered the sale of slaves via the Todd estate.
But these claims hinge on a small number of contested documents and are
rejected by most specialists in Lincoln studies.
There you go.
Well, it's interesting that the fact that we're even talking about it.
Mm-hmm.
Well, it's kind of crazy how recent it was.
That's what's really crazy.
Oh, yeah.
It wasn't that long ago.
Two people ago.
You know?
People lived to be 100.
Yeah.
1865 was roughly two people ago.
Yeah.
That's fucking crazy.
Well, I know.
I bet you when you were in school, you thought World War II was ancient history.
Oh, yeah.
Which is nuts because I was in high school in the 80s, right?
So, World War II ended in 45, which is nuts.
Yeah.
I thought it was ancient history.
I remember sitting in history class in eighth grade going, what do I need to
know this shit for?
You know?
And I was born in 51.
So, it was only like three or four years and the war had just ended.
That's nuts.
But to me, it was ancient history.
Isn't that crazy?
Because essentially what we're talking about now is like the 1980s.
Yeah.
Well, to us, the 1980s, like to kids today, they must be like, oh, my God,
fucking dinosaur days.
Yeah.
No Internet.
Fucking big old tube TVs.
It was a giant box.
Yeah.
A big one was 14 inches.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember being at home once and I told my dad, I said, hey, dad, the people
down the street have got like a changer and it's got a cord on it.
And he goes, I got to change her too.
Change it to channel four.
I was the changer.
Yeah.
I remember we used to have a pliers because the thing got stripped.
So, you know, change the channel with the plier.
You didn't know what channel it was until like, oh, it's CBS.
All right.
So, we're on five.
Go like this.
Then you're on ABC.
Go like that.
You're on NBC.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember the day cable came out.
I was like, this is fucking bananas.
Yeah.
Look at all these channels.
Well, I remember seeing a home box office.
Oh, yeah.
It was like, what on earth?
I even remember what movie it was.
It was some miracle man or something.
And I thought, what is it?
It's past 11 o'clock and this movie is just starting.
Yeah.
Do you remember in the old days when the TV would sign off and the American
flag would wave
and it would just play music and then it would just go.
Well, the Indian would always show up.
Yeah.
The American Indian would always show up and it had like this.
Yep.
And then it would go to nothing.
They would stop broadcasting at night.
Yeah.
11.
Yeah.
11.
Those were wild times.
Cable changed everything.
Home box office changed everything.
Because when HBO came around, all of a sudden you got to see stand-up comedy
uncensored.
I remember the first time I watched Sam Kinison on HBO, I was like, this is
fucking crazy.
Yeah.
Like I had never seen anything like that before.
Like wild, raw comedy on TV.
Did you ever know Sam Kinison?
No, I never met him.
I did.
What was he like?
Wild.
Yeah, I would imagine.
He was very unpredictable, very, you know, he was Sam Kinison.
You know his story, how he became that way?
No.
Got hit by a truck when he was a little kid.
He was real normal.
Like a normal kid.
His brother Bill wrote about it.
His brother Bill wrote a great book called My Brother Sam.
And he said that Sam was just a normal kid, got hit by a truck, got really
fucked up, bad
brain injury.
And then from then on, wild and reckless.
Just like impossible to control.
Just a maniac.
Well, you could imagine.
I mean, you know, that's, I don't know about you, but if you grew up in the 80s,
you know,
our parents used to just tell us, go outside.
Yeah.
Yep.
Go outside and we'll see you at dark.
Yep.
And, you know, I could go, I was, I don't know, 10, 9, riding my bike all over
Seymour.
Yep.
Which is where I grew up.
And just, nobody kept an eye on us.
Nope.
Nobody, you know.
And nobody had any idea of knowing where you are either.
It was just your responsibility to come home.
There was no way to find you.
It was funny.
They had to remind us that, remind our parents that you have kids.
There was a thing that said, it's 10 o'clock.
Do you know where your children are?
Yeah.
Because a lot of people didn't.
Well, they didn't.
And people would yell.
They would open up the window and yell their kid's name.
Billy!
You would just hear it in the neighborhood.
Someone, like, rolling down their window, rolling up their window and just
screaming out the kid's name to tell them to come home.
And hoping the kid was in earshot.
I remember somebody in my neighborhood.
I would hear it every night at dark.
Henry Earl!
And I'd hear it and go, I better go home.
If it's time for Henry Earl to go home, I better get home.
What was it like when MTV rolled around?
I didn't, I mean, I liked it.
How long had you been performing by then?
Oh, I was in my first band when I was 11.
Wow.
You know, a little garage band with a bunch of kids playing along with records.
And then I was in a band called The Crepe Soul.
Think about this, Joe.
I was 14 years old playing in bars.
Wow!
And my parents were cool with it.
It's like, where's John?
He's playing tonight.
Playing what?
He's in The Crepe Soul.
Oh.
And it was me and this black kid named Fred Booker.
And we shared the vocals.
And we would do, you know, we would do songs like,
Pull strings and I'll kiss your lips.
I'm your puppet.
I'm your puppet.
And we had, you know, neighbor jackets on.
And I was cute back then.
And so, you know, it was great for me.
I would have done it for free because
I was 14 years old making out with 18, 19-year-old girls.
Wow!
I know, it was great.
Are you kidding me?
And then we played at every fraternity, every sorority.
And I came home with maybe, you know,
over the weekend I might make 60 bucks.
I was the best dressed kid in school.
Wow!
That Mellencamp kid is just a dressed up hood.
That's all he is.
So did you know back then that you were going to be a professional musician?
Or were you doing it for fun?
Did you think it was going to be a career?
I thought, here's what I thought.
I'm either going to be a professional football player,
a professional boxer, or a singer.
That was my choices.
You boxed?
Yeah.
Yeah?
I'll whip your ass right now.
At 74!
Is that why you were getting in so many fights?
Yeah, I liked it.
Wow.
I liked it.
I liked the contact.
Didn't like getting whipped every goddamn night, but, you know, it happens.
Did you have any professional boxing matches?
No, but my son, I'm going to brag on my son, was National Golden Globes champ
twice.
Wow!
And then he played football for Duke.
And he was, you don't want to mess with HUD.
Don't want to mess with HUD.
And so...
He's 31 now.
When did the music thing really start taking off for you?
Well, I went to college and I got a degree in broadcasting technology,
which at that time was pretty...
And they would have dances at college and bands playing,
and I would sit there in the audience and go,
I can do this better than that.
I know I can.
And so as soon as I got out of college,
I got into a band called the Mason Brothers,
which I have so many funny stories.
Like I said, I'm so lucky.
I got into a band called the Mason Brothers,
and we played every weekend,
and I was a barroom singer.
You know, I never wrote any songs or anything like that.
You want to hear a funny story about the Mason Brothers,
how the Mason Brothers ended?
Yeah.
This is good.
The guy that ran the band,
I was just a singer,
and the guy that ran the band was a guy named Dave.
And Dave talked to the booker,
and we had a gig on a riverboat up and down the Ohio River,
and it was a fraternity show.
And we had an old Plymouth and a U-Haul on the back.
And we get there, and the guys in the fraternity show are so fucking mad at us.
Dave failed to realize that there was a time change between Seymour and
Cincinnati,
which is on the Ohio River.
So all these fraternity guys are going,
where the hell have you guys been here an hour late?
So it really pissed me off.
I go, Dave, goddammit, if you're going to run the band,
you've got to keep track of this shit.
He said, oh, don't worry about it.
And as time went on,
and so as...
And you had to do four sets back then.
You know, four 45-minute sets,
which was plenty of time for Dave to get drunk.
And he would drink,
and he was the bass player.
And the fraternity guys already hated us,
you know, because we weren't really any good anyway.
So Dave's playing,
and he's going along really good.
And he was putting on a show,
and he leaned back and,
man overboard!
He fucking fell off the ship,
and they had to stop him fishing.
Oh, my God.
So I got so fucking mad at him
that he said,
I said, Dave, I'm going to quit.
This is it for me.
I'm done with this crap.
And then Dave said,
no, John, give us one more chance.
And then the drummer quit,
because he went to medical school.
And then the guitar player was still in high school.
Wow.
And he was my mom and dad's paper boys.
And so Dave said,
John, let me put the band back together.
I'll get some new guys.
And I'd call him up and I'd go,
Dave, how's the band going?
And he'd go,
oh, it's going great, man.
It's going really great.
I said, good.
I said, who are these new guys?
He goes, you'll see when you get there.
Don't worry about it.
I got it covered.
I said, oh, you mean like you did with the time change?
And he goes, no, no, no.
These guys are good.
So I show up for this gig.
I haven't even rehearsed with these guys.
Not even rehearsed with them.
But it was the same shit, you know,
because we were just a cover band
and I was just a barroom singer.
So, you know,
if you want to see taking care of business,
I'm your guy, you know.
And take care of business.
You know, who can't do that?
So anyway, I show up.
Dave has recruited two sophomores in high school
who couldn't play their instruments at all.
The drummer was like,
it's like, boom, boom, crack, asshole.
Boom, boom, crack.
That's all you got to do.
And he was the whole fucking time.
And so the show was about half over.
I just said,
I looked at Dave and I go,
you're the lead singer.
And I just left
because it was just too embarrassing.
And then I got,
I went to New York
and I was afraid.
Joe, I was afraid.
I mean, I'm from a fucking town of 18,000 people
and I'd been to Chicago once.
I'd never been on an airplane.
And so I flew to New York
because I came into some money.
That's another funny story.
I came into some money
and I went there
and I was afraid to come out of my hotel room
for the first two days
because New York in the early 70s
was broke.
And there were prostitutes
and pimps
and everything,
everywhere,
you know,
and homeless people,
which reminds me,
you guys got a lot of homeless guys here.
There's a few.
It's not as bad as L.A.
Well, that isn't,
you can say that about anything, Joe.
That's true.
Yeah.
It's a lot better than it was
during the pandemic.
During the pandemic,
they allowed them
to do the camping
on the street thing.
So you'd go down
like Cesar Chavez
and you'd see like 15,
20 tents
where people were just hanging out
and people were trying to jog
and ride their bikes past them.
It was pretty bad.
But a former mayor
cleaned it up
and they have pretty good programs here
to get people into housing.
Everybody here,
everybody here must love,
and I'm not putting Austin down,
I'm just,
I had,
you know,
I played here about three years ago.
But everybody must love graffiti here.
And that's the thing about graffiti.
I don't mind if you want to,
destroy somebody else's property,
but at least do something original
because it all looks the same.
You know,
it's big letters
and outlined in,
it's done in black
and outlined in yellow
and it's the same fucking shit
you see in New York
or Los Angeles.
It's the same.
Right.
If you're going to,
if you're going to be an artist,
be an artist.
Well,
a lot of these guys,
they're just tagging.
They're just like,
sister gang affiliation
or whatever it is.
I guess.
I don't know.
Yeah.
But it wasn't that way
the first time I came to Austin.
No.
It's,
well,
I think all cities have deteriorated,
but I think Austin's deteriorated
quite a bit less.
We found out recently
that Skid Row in L.A.
is 50 blocks,
5-0.
Right now?
Right now.
50 blocks
of homeless people
just living on the streets
and like almost impassable.
Like if you've ever been
down Skid Row,
it's fucking,
I went there once accidentally
and this was in the 2000s.
We were filming Fear Factor
downtown in L.A.
and I took a wrong turn
and wound up in Skid Row
and I was like,
I couldn't believe it was real.
It was like a zombie movie
and that's,
I mean,
it's a fraction.
So you decided on Fear Factor,
you go stay in here
for three days
and you win.
Three days and do no coke.
Yeah,
you could do three days
with no meth
and you win.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was sobering
and then we looked up
the history of Skid Row
and the reason why
it's like that
is they would take people
out of Hollywood
and Beverly Hills
and homeless people then
and they would put them
in Skid Row
and force them
to stay there
and they sort of built it
as a place
where they could deposit
vagrants
and homeless people.
Well,
there is a law
in this country
called vagrancy.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Not very enforced.
Well,
it would be,
let me tell you something.
If you grew up
in Seymour, Indiana,
it was enforceable.
Right.
Because if you stand uptown
too long,
which is all kids
did back then,
the cops
come up and go,
hey,
you've been here
for three hours.
We've been timing you.
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Yeah.
Move on.
You want to keep
a nice clean town.
That's how you do it.
Yeah.
But if you let it go
long enough,
it will be like Skid Row.
I mean,
and I think
that what we're saying
like the documentary,
what was the hotel again
that won?
Hotel Cecil.
The Hotel Cecil.
The documentary
was about the Hotel Cecil,
which was a beautiful hotel
in downtown L.A.
that's now
a fucking disaster area.
But it's in that whole area
and they just
they couldn't figure out
a way to deal
with the homeless problem,
but they didn't want it
messing up the beauty
and glamour of Hollywood.
So every time
they would find homeless people,
they would just ship them
to downtown.
Downtown L.A.
is really the only downtown
of any major city
that I've ever been to
where nobody wants to go.
Downtown New York
is fucking downtown.
Like, holy shit,
we're downtown.
Look at all the restaurants.
Look at all the shops.
Yeah, but it wasn't that way
in the 70s.
Right.
The first time I went there,
it was just like,
if you went to Times Square,
it was frightening.
The first time
I went to New York
was to fight.
I was fighting
in a martial arts tournament
in 1980.
It had to be,
I guess it was 85 or 86.
And it was bad.
We went through
Times Square.
And I was like,
oh my God.
I couldn't believe
people lived like this.
I remember the first time
driving through it,
I couldn't believe
how big it was.
I was like,
this is crazy.
It was so,
because Boston,
where I was from,
was, you know,
the big city,
I thought.
It was nothing
compared to New York.
I'm like,
this is nuts.
I couldn't believe
how many streets
there were
and how many buildings
there were
and how tall they were.
But the,
just the seediness
of it
was so strange to me.
You know,
the peep shows
and all the weird people.
And I was a kid back then.
I was probably,
you know, 18.
It was very strange.
It was frightening.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I was,
I don't know,
I probably got sidetracked,
but the first time
I went there,
I didn't leave my hotel room.
I had a,
I was in a Holiday Inn
on 57th Street
and I just kind of
peeked through the curtains
and looked and I thought,
I can't go out there.
I mean,
I was,
you know,
coming off agoraphobia
and here I'm in New York
because I have a meeting
with some record company people
and,
you know,
they like to demo.
So let's go back to that.
So you were,
you're fucked up drunk friend.
You quit him.
How do you get back
on the music after that?
Oh, Dave?
Yeah.
No,
I got my first record deal.
The first guy I called
was Dave.
No,
he was,
he was a great bass player.
He was a great bass player.
Did he get his shit together
before then?
No.
Nope.
Still not?
No,
no.
I got funny stories
about Dave
and Max's Kansas.
Is he still around?
Yeah,
he's a professor now.
He found God
and all this stuff.
Oh, wow.
He's a professor
at Vincennes University
and he teaches.
He's a professor.
Wow.
What does he teach?
music.
Oh, wow.
And,
no,
he was really a handsome,
really good bass player.
Really,
really,
really,
really good.
But he just,
you know,
you know,
Dave and,
we were 20 years old,
22 years old.
You know,
the fuck did we know
about anything?
Yeah.
Nothing.
Nothing.
So when you left Dave
and you left that band,
what happened next?
What was like
the big break for you?
I never really had
a big break.
Well,
something must have happened.
It was a slow climb.
Yeah?
It was a very slow climb.
Yeah,
I got a record deal
and,
of course,
being me
at that age,
at 22,
I went out to California
and I met with a guy
named Mike Maitland
who hated
my new record
but said
I had great possibilities
and I told her.
I just stood up
and I said,
motherfucker,
you're an old man.
What do you know
about rock music?
He must have been 40.
And,
of course,
I got dropped
immediately.
I was on MCA
and I got dropped
immediately.
But there were
a couple people
at MCA
who believed
in what I was doing
and so they helped me along
and then
I got introduced
to
Rod Stewart's manager
and I moved
to England
for
two years.
Made a record
and,
you know,
lived with the whole band
on
Chelsea
in Chelsea
and
punk
was just starting
and just starting.
I mean,
you know,
The Clash
and
the Sex Pistols,
I mean,
they were brand new bands.
Wow.
And there I am
with an acoustic guitar
going,
I need a lover
that won't drive them.
It's like,
however,
that song became
number one
in Australia.
and so,
and so,
Australia was ahead
of us
with televising
rock bands
and they had
a whole bunch
of rock shows
and I had
the number one
record album
and single
in Australia
and couldn't
fill up a bar
in Bloomington.
Wow.
Couldn't,
nobody would come
and see me.
So anyway,
I went to Australia
and then
a girl
covered
I Need to Love Her
and she had
a big hit with it.
I mean,
mine was like,
went to like 30
or something like that
but hers went
to like two
of that song
and that's how
it all started
for me.
That was the very
first thing.
Wow.
With some girl
covering one of my songs.
And you were living
in England?
I lived in England
for two years
and they had
the National Front
there at the time.
I don't know
if you know
what that is.
The National Front
was,
if you're not English,
get out of our country.
A couple guys
in my band
got beat up
because they heard,
you know,
some of the National Front
guys heard
their accent
and it wasn't English.
So it was like
dangerous to even
go to the movies.
Really?
Keep your fucking
mouth shut
and your head down.
What year was this around?
70s?
77,
76,
77.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah,
the National Front
was,
you know,
they were like
all a bunch
of skinhead guys
and violent
and did not want
any foreigners
in their country
at all.
And even
Americans,
you know.
So,
yeah,
you had to keep
your,
you know,
I learned real quick
to keep your head
down and your mouth
shut.
Wow.
And so you got
out of there
because of that?
No,
I got out of there
because I got
mad at the,
I know it's hard
to believe
that I got mad
at somebody,
but I got mad
at the manager
because I never
could get the
cocksucker
on the phone,
you know.
And then I came
back to the United
States and he had
a record deal
based on the
number one record
in Australia.
And I used to go,
well,
we have a number
one record in
Australia.
And they would
look at me and go,
not many Australians
in the United States,
John.
So,
you know,
and then it's just
kind of built,
but see what
happened.
And I don't mean
to sound arrogant,
but I didn't
give a fuck.
I got to the point
where it was like,
I don't give a fuck.
You know,
do what the fuck
you want.
Because I didn't
want to be
Johnny Cougar,
which is how
they made me start.
Whose idea was
that to turn you
into John Cougar?
It was Johnny
to start off with.
Johnny Cougar.
Tony DeVries
managed me,
David Bowie,
Lou Reed,
Mata Hoopal.
You remember
all these bands?
Oh,
Lou Reed for sure,
yeah.
Yeah,
anyway.
David Bowie,
obviously.
Rod Stewart,
obviously.
Same guy.
No,
Rod Stewart was
different.
Different manager.
Different manager.
But he was
English too.
So,
It's hard to argue
with someone
that's got that
kind of talent,
right?
Well,
it's hard to argue
when you're 22
years old
with a 45-year-old
man who has
had success.
Right.
Yeah,
like I signed
away my publishing
and stuff.
This is an old
story.
But,
I mean,
an old story
from everybody,
from the Rolling
Stones to,
you know,
you name it.
Prince.
if you were black,
you know,
it was like,
here's a new car
and a shiny ring
and some money.
Yeah.
And,
so I remember
the,
I was in,
getting ready,
getting ready
to leave England
and I heard
that Gaff
had good news
for me
in America.
So that's the reason
I went home
and the good news
was is that
he just got a deal
for me
on Mercury Records
and then,
so I went back
to the United States
and we started,
you know,
started making records
and just kept
plowing away
and the critics
hated me,
you know,
they fucking hated me
because of Johnny Cougar
and main man
came up with that name
Johnny Cougar
and his excuse was,
his name was David Jones
and I called him
David Bowie
and look how well
that worked out
and that was,
and I'm 22
and I'm going,
but I don't like
this name
and he go,
well,
you don't have to,
you don't have to
participate,
you can go back
to Indiana
if you want.
He was like,
well,
fuck you,
then I will
and then I walked
outside
and thought
for a minute
and thought,
hmm,
I guess I'm
Johnny Cougar.
Wow.
I hated it.
and they compared
me to James Dean
and Bruce
and you know,
so the critics
just hated that.
It was like,
you know,
he's so American,
he's so American.
You know,
yeah,
I was a fucking ill bully.
Fucking critics.
They're always going
to be a problem.
Yeah,
but you know what?
I learned stuff
from some of the critics
that were good.
Like what?
Well,
one of my best friends
was a guy named
Tim White
who was the editor
of Rolling Stone
and the editor
of Billboard magazine
and he died
a few years ago
and
you want to hear
some inside baseball?
Sure.
Tim and I
talked every day
and Tim is
as different as me
as you.
Tim wore bow tie,
white bucks,
you know,
blue jeans,
suit jacket
every day
and he was the editor
of Rolling Stone
for a long time
and then he became
editor of Billboard
and he called me up
and he said,
I'm going to have
to sign a deal
with SoundScan.
I said,
so?
I didn't know
what that was.
He goes,
John,
you don't understand
the ramifications
of signing a deal
with SoundScan.
I said,
well,
what are they?
He goes,
you'll be out
of business.
I go,
why do you say that?
He goes,
because now
the way
the Billboard charts
work,
is this getting
too inside baseball?
No,
not at all.
The way
the charts work
is that
if you get played
in Indianapolis
and you get played
in New York,
it counts as one play.
New York
counts as one play,
Indianapolis
counts as one play.
A play is a play.
When SoundScan
came in,
they changed it
so it's like
the number one
record of the week.
So,
if you got a play
in New York,
that was worth
five points.
If you got a play
in Indianapolis,
that was worth
a half a point.
so what does that mean?
That means
that people
who grew up
in St. Louis
and where rock
took place,
all of a sudden,
you know,
where I got played
all the time,
the points
didn't amount
to shit.
but what did?
Urban stations.
Urban stations
played what?
Rap.
So,
do you remember
when all of a sudden
rap music
took over?
Mm-hmm.
It wasn't because
these guys
were so great.
I'm not saying
they were bad.
I'm just saying
that it was because
of SoundScan
and my friend Tim
knew this was
going to happen.
As soon as I
signed this deal
with SoundScan
and there was
a magazine
called Radio
and Records
at the time
who was rivaling
Billboard
and
if Tim
hadn't bought
SoundScan
Radio and Records
would have bought them
which would have
made them
the premier
record company
because they were
the most modern
and so
SoundScan
changed everything.
So,
I'm sure
that you remember
that there was
a time
when you knew
every song
that was number one
then all of a sudden
you woke up one day
and you didn't know
what the
what's
how does this song
become number one?
But the way
that it was
before SoundScan
each song
had to work
its way up
the charts
so if you had
like you know
let's say
20 plays
I'm just
throwing out
low numbers
but if you had
20 plays
that got added
to the 20 plays
that you got
the next week
so now you have
40 plays
so you might
move up
from 36
to 31
but Joe Rogan
in Boston
was hearing
the fucking songs
as they move up
oh I heard
this new song
you talk to
your friend
and they said
yeah I heard
that song
and then all of a sudden
the song
would build
and build
and build
and build
and build
and build
and Michael Jackson
would be number one
or whoever
and once
SoundScan
took over
if you run
a rock band
the record companies
said
well fuck this
we're not even
going to advertise
in Indianapolis
anymore
the biggest
the biggest
numbers
are
R&B stations
and they're
playing rap
and that's
we're going
to service
those people
because back
then
you know
there was
payola
and all that
stuff going on
so there was
like no money
coming into
Indianapolis
all of a sudden
where they used
to be
it was all
going to
New York
Los Angeles
San Francisco
to all these
R&B stations
and then
what was
that thing
called
when you
could like
download
records
for nothing
Napster
yeah
and then
that started
and then
that really
put us out
of it
put all
rock guys
out of it
if you check
the billboard
charts right now
I bet you
you'd be hard
pressed to find
two rock bands
in the top
rock bands
rock bands
right now
just in general
are
almost
non-existent
in terms of
like new bands
it's really weird
there used to be
so many rock bands
and rock and roll
is still a very popular
form of music
when you listen
to the older stuff
that's why
that's why
I've decided
I don't mean to
plug myself
but
they have been
asking me
because I got
tired
of going on
tour
and being a
cheerleader
which is what
I was
let's do a
rounding hit
of small town
I was born
you know
and everybody
ended up singing
I was playing
to 20,000 people
and everybody
was drunk
and I was just
kind of the
cheerleader
you know
for people's
good time
yeah
giving them
the opportunity
and I just
thought
you know
I'm here
to be a musician
this is not
being a musician
this is being
a fucking clown
I don't want
to be a clown
so I started
playing in theaters
which pissed
everybody off
I said
and you know
when you come
to one of my shows
and this has been
for the last 20 years
I've been doing this
you come to one of my shows
in a theater
it says
please
recognize
back then
pull that sucker up
close to your face
what
the microphone
otherwise we're
barely here
you're very soft
there you go
how's that
there we go
I am
and
I am soft spoken
a little bit
yeah
you know why
why
because I'm deaf
are you really
oh from all the singing
all the music
oh every rock star
is deaf
I'm deaf
no one knew
shit about hearing
protection back then
no I'm deaf
I can't hear
all my friends in bands
and all my friends
are hunters
deaf
can't hear
yeah
guns and loud music
yeah
my kids would love it
because they could walk up
and say shit
behind my back
I heard that
I got three girls
and two boys
and
how many kids you got
three
three girls
girls
are
at about
12
you lose them
and then
about 21
they come back
I haven't lost them
you haven't?
unfortunately
no
no
I'm real close
yeah
I kind of
17
17
or 28
I kind of
lost mine
you know
it was like
but now
it's kind of like
but I do have a daughter
that's really sick
she's not fucking fine
oh that sucks
I'm sorry to hear that
she's got
she's got cancer
in the brain
oh Jesus
and
she's suffering
right now
but that kid
used to call me up
and I'd go
Teddy
you can have a thought
without asking me
if it's
you know
figure it out yourself
you don't have to ask me
everything
you know
but I love having kids
I do too
it has made me
a much nicer person
that's for sure
yeah me too
but I've stayed close
with them
even through the teenage years
luckily
but you know
I worked hard at it
I was on tour all the time
yeah
well that's one of the things
that I did
when we moved to Texas
almost six years ago now
was that I
decided to be home
a lot more
in the beginning
when here
I was still touring a lot
I would do
you know weekends
I'd go do shows
but
now I hardly ever
now I have my own comedy club
so I'm in town
all the time
what do you think
of stand-up now
I love it
it's a great time
for stand-up
you think
yeah
yeah
I mean
you don't have to like
worry about
crossing the line
yeah you do
yeah
yeah you do
you'll cross the line
but not for
with the people
that you care about
you know
you cross the line
for people
that are looking
to be offended
well which is a lot
of people
yeah so they're
gonna be mad
let them be mad
yeah
I just can't pay attention
that's the thing
it's like
I tell all the comics
like stay out of the comments
don't read anything
about yourself
and you'll be alright
just the audience
is what matters
is the audience laughing
I've never googled myself
good for you
in my life
good
I've never googled myself
ever
because I don't give a fuck
well that's a good
that's a good
practice to keep
where were we
so we were talking about
how
they stuck you
with the Johnny Cougar name
you're in New York City
that's kind of where
we left it off
I was trying to figure out
like what
what was the MTV days like
and when did it like
really start cracking
pull that microphone
close up to you
when did it really
start cracking
well do you know
John Sykes
no
he was one of the guys
who started MTV
okay
and
I remember
calling him up
and I didn't know him
this was like
1981
82
and like I said
you know
it was
it was like
all you really saw
of guys in rock bands
were the album covers
you know
maybe on Midnight Special
or something like that
yep
or Don Kirshner's
rock concert
or something like that
but then with MTV
going all the time
and not very many people
made videos
but see
I was making videos
because I had a hit
in Australia
and like I said
Australia was way ahead
of us
so it was
the video
that I just made
in a club
in London
that was shown
that made that record
number one
wow
in Australia
and
so
when MTV started
there wasn't that
many people
making videos
but I was
so
they didn't have any content
oh
so they played me
all the fucking time
just because
nobody else
had videos yet
right
people hadn't caught up yet
right
and I remember sitting
with
I can't remember the guy
some English guy
and I said
do you
what is this MTV thing
he goes
I don't know
the record company
told me
I can't remember the guy's name
he was really a good songwriter
but you don't hear of him
much anymore
anyway
I had a conversation
neither one of us
knew what was going on
and then I met John
and
I was
I was the first
and John and I
got along great
I was the first promotion
that MTV did
and we gave away
a pink house
oh wow
you know
and
you had to register
and do all this stuff
and
and
there's a funny story
that goes with that
so
Sykes
and somebody else
came to Indiana
to find a house
in Bloomington
that they were gonna
buy
and then
they were gonna do a show
and I did an ad
where I went
and you can win a house
and we're gonna paint
the mother pink
you know
and that's what they did
except
the house
they bought
Joe
was on a chemical dump
oh no
but
I didn't know it
and
they didn't know
because they're from New York
and so
when I found out
I
I called them up
I said
guys
we can't give away
this house
it's on a fucking
chemical dump
because RCA
was dumping chemicals
out in this field
that was right next
to the house
oh geez
that we bought
you know
and back then
in the early 80s
there wasn't much
legislation
about where you could
dump that kind of stuff
right
so they had to buy
another house
which they weren't
happy about
so they had to buy
two houses
couldn't sell
the other one
gave it away
and Sykes
to this day
I'll tease him
about it
and he'll go
oh we took that
off the books
years ago
cheers
but it
it
it
it
went from
walking down
the street
to
nobody know
who the fuck
you are
to walking
down the street
and
everybody
knew who you were
everybody
I mean
it got
at the height
of MTV
you couldn't
I couldn't
go anyplace
did you
get the agoraphobia
before that
oh yeah
oh boy
so that probably
just made it
way worse
right
no actually
again Joe
lucky
it helped
me
get over
it
it helped
me
and you know
like I
I believe
that all growth
takes place
in the chemicals
inside our body
so
I was growing
still
because I grew
up in public
right
you know
I grew
I mean
I literally
grew up
when I got
my first record
deal Joe
I had never
written a song
wow
never written a song
they
they asked me
play some of the
songs you've written
it's like
I don't write
no fucking songs
I'm a
I'm a barroom singer
I sing other
people's songs
what do you want
a song
what do you want
to write for
Dylan's writing
great songs
you hadn't
written anything
nothing
wow
so when did
you start writing
after you got
a record deal
yeah
wow
but it turns out
you're a great
writer
that's crazy
and I have
dyslexia
which means
I can't read
you should see
my songwriting
books
it's
it's
it's
absolutely
terrible
it looks
like
you know
I have to
have somebody
now
after I write
a song
I have to
give it to
somebody
right away
and
let them
copy it
and I'll
read it to
them
so that we
can read
what the
fucking
you know
what I wrote
because songwriting
is not what
people think
it is
but anyway
back to MTV
it just
blew up
and you
couldn't go
anywhere
I couldn't
I would
walk down
the street
and all
I did
was sign
autographs
and shake
hands
and I
didn't like
it at all
well that'd be
very weird
yeah I mean
it was like
you know
you've been in
rock bands
since you were
13
nobody gave a
shit
and then all
of a sudden
they did
and you know
it was the
baby boomers
coming of age
and you know
I was very
fortunate
but
unappreciative
unappreciative
so
when you first
started writing
songs
what was
what was your
process
when you knew
you had to
write songs
how did you
well
I figured out
just don't forget
the critics
hated me
already
yeah
oh yeah
they hated
Johnny Cougar
fucking hated him
and I didn't like
him much
either
because
you know
we weren't
any good
you know
we just weren't
we didn't know
how to write songs
we didn't know
how to do anything
so
I figured
how do you
reach a lot
of people
by
being on
the radio
so
keep it
simple
stupid
so I
would write
like I had
a song called
Hurt So Good
do you remember
that song
sure
yeah
I was so good
I wrote that
in the shower
and I came out
real quick
and I wrote it
down
and then I had
somebody
write it down
and I remembered
the melody
and I sang it
to a tape machine
and
I got so many
funny stories
I was down
in Criteria
which was in
Florida
in Miami
and
you know
it was
the early
80s
and
so we had
this
and Criteria
had
five or six
studios
and you know
there were like
I don't know
all kind of bands
the Bee Gees
were over here
and this band
was over here
and
and
we had
we had
the studio
blocked out
but we
wouldn't show up
we had
other things
to do
there was
a place
called
Scaramouche
that had
the prettiest
girls you ever
saw in your life
so it was like
we did not have
time to go
to the studio
because we
had been
up till daybreak
at Scaramouche
you know
and
so I was
spending a lot
of fucking
money by now
and it was like
maybe
you know
at the time
a half a million
dollars
and I had
three songs
done
whoa
that's exactly
right
whoa
and I'd had
a couple
hits
I had
Idy Lover
ain't even
done
with
and
this time
I think
and so
those songs
were like
got into
the top
20
anyway
the record
company
came down
and said
Mellencamp
what the fuck
you know
you're spending
all this money
and
if you
don't get
on with it
we're going to
drop you
from the label
and I
can't drop me
from the fucking
label
are you kidding me
I'm just starting
well
we want to come
down and hear
what you've done
I said
well come on down
I played them
three songs
the three I had
done
in six weeks
anyway
I played them
the three songs
they hated them
which songs
were they
Jack and
Diane
oh god
hurt so
hurt so good
oh god
and hand to
hold on to
oh my god
they hated those
oh they hated
them
they said
oh wow
they said
John
this is
they're too
rough
they're too
raw
and what is
this sound
in Jack
and Diane
this
it's not even
what is that
sound
well the sound
was I would
walk by
the Bee Gees
studio
and they
had just
invented
drum machines
and the Bee Gees
were using it
to keep time
because you know
most drummers
they speed up
you know
they start the song
at this tempo
and all of a sudden
they're like
by the end of the song
it's like
I can't keep up with you
god damn it
slow down
so
the Bee Gees
were using it
to keep time
and I heard
this sound
and so
I knew
the engineer
his name
was Albie
Gluten
and Al
and I said
Albie
can I borrow
that machine
he goes
yeah
because
we're not going
to be in the studio
for a week
so we were doing
a song called
Jack and Diane
that just was not
working out
because the drummer
kept speeding up
and when you're
trying to keep it
simple stupid
simple is hard
because if you make
a little mistake
it's a big mistake now
because there's not
a bunch of shit
covering up
your mistake
right
so
I called up
Mick Ronson
he was the guitar player
for David Bowie
remember Mick
no I don't
Joe
God damn it
sorry
anyway Mick
was a great guy
he was
he was Bowie's
guitar player
when Bowie was great
when he had
Ziggy Stardust
and all that stuff
and Ronson
was an English guy
and he'd call me
Johnny all the time
and you know
and
he said
Johnny
maybe you should
put those
baby rattles
on there
and I go
what
he goes
you know
that drum machine
thing
that makes
that noise
just to keep
time
and I said
okay
we'll try it
so we
put on this
doon
doon
doon
doon
doon
doon
doon
doon
and it was
perfect timing
perfect
so the
idea was
is that
we'll
take that
drum machine
out
when we get
everything
we'll take it
out
and now
the drummer
had to play
in time
because
that machine
did not budge
that machine
was perfect
and it was
it was a
prototype
of a drum
machine
that's how
new it was
it was a
prototype
and
there was only one
they gave him
the VG's
to try it out
and see how
they liked it
and
so we
got it all
together
and we took
the drum
machine out
sounded
like shit
but it sounded
great with the
drum machine
so I said
fuck it
we'll just
leave the drum
machine in
and it worked
because nobody
had ever heard
that sound
and the record
company didn't
like that
oh they hated
it
they hated
that fucking
sound
but that song
was so good
well
you know
and
it's surprising
to me
that to this
day
how many people
still love that song
it's a fucking
great song
you know
and
every time
what year was that
1981
wow
I was 14
so how old
were you
14
yeah
high school
yeah you were there
yeah
that's great
see that's great
and I love hearing
you know guys your age
talk about it
because it's just like
I didn't know what the fuck
I was doing
and the fact that
that song today
I had somebody tell me
one of the nicest things
anybody said to me
was is that
John
there was Romeo
and Juliet
there was Frankie
and Johnny
and now there's
Jack and Diane
and you've joined
those two kids
have joined
those people
of importance
in American
culture
yeah
think about it
now who would have
fucking thought
that some dumbass
like me
would write a fucking song
as a child
when I first
started writing songs
and create those two characters
that made such an impression
on everybody
the only other one
I think about
is Brenda and Eddie
from Billy Joel
scenes from an Italian restaurant
yeah
that's another one
yeah
Jack and Diane
was fucking huge
when I was in high school
I can't believe
the record company
didn't like that
they didn't
they didn't like
Hand to hold on to
God
and they
and they didn't like me
God
and they didn't like me
how could you be more wrong
than Jack and Diane
Jack and Diane
was fucking huge
Joe
look at
I don't know that much
about your career
but look at your career
and look at
at what suits
have said to you
and how wrong they were
well the most successful
thing that I've ever done
nobody had
any input on at all
which is this
well there you go
well there you go
yeah
there was not a chance
in hell
anybody would have said
yeah have unfiltered
conversations for three hours
with random people
and you know
millions of people
will listen and watch
no one would have believed it
but
when we did it
we didn't do it
for anybody else
but you were an actor
before
well I was a comic first
and then
because I got a development deal
they gave me some money
to be on a sitcom
so I did that
that sitcom got cancelled
then I did another sitcom
that was kind of successful
called News Radio
that got cancelled
and then I wound up
being on Fear Factor
yeah
it's just a bunch of weird
circumstances
that a lot of luck
a lot of weird stuff happened
a lot of luck
yeah
yeah
see and
you know what
I walk in my house
sometimes
and I look around
and think
I get to fucking live here
yeah
I get to fucking live here
I think that all the time
yeah
I get to live here
and
and how lucky
I am
to
have
had
that kind of success
from such
an horrible
beginning
as Johnny Cougar
and
you know
to be able to
you know
do
I've done
what I wanted to do
ever since
I decided
fuck you guys
yeah
after
after American Fool
came out
and those songs
became hits
nobody
has ever said
shit to me
about anything
well
they realized
they were wrong
well
well those guys
I'm sure
are out of business
and I have to
kind of smile
about the rock critics
because
it got to the point
where
I had such
so many songs
on the radio
that they couldn't
ignore it anymore
you were undeniable
yeah
and that's
and you know what
that's the word
I used to say
that's the key
to success
that's
that's the word
I used to say
to the guys
in the band
we have to make
the song
undeniable
yeah
because if you give
them an inch
they'll find
a fucking reason
not to do it
they definitely will
and it's
there's good
in that too
there's good
in those people
that hate
that they're valuable
they can fuel
you to greatness
they can fuel
you to be better
because if you know
that there's people
out there
that are just
gonna fucking
hate on you
no matter
what you do
and you just
gotta come up
with something
that listen
this will be
undeniable
and they'll
still hate it
look I was
watching a
fucking interview
yesterday
where this lady
was talking
shit about
the Beatles
she was talking
about how she
thinks the Beatles
are terrible
and this lady
was not
particularly
articulate
she wasn't
interesting
or compelling
she didn't seem
very intelligent
but she was
speaking with
such authority
about how
she thought
the Beatles
were terrible
and I was like
well you're
fucking wrong
you couldn't
be more wrong
you couldn't
be more wrong
they are one
of the greatest
bands in the
history of the
fucking known
world
yeah
fact
but this lady
was just going
which shows you
you cannot
make everybody
happy
because some
people don't
want to be
happy
they don't
want to see
good
you had
four
really talented
people in
that band
and it
showed
because some
of the songs
hear me out
some of the
songs
it was good
for my
generation
because we
went from
cartoons
to rock and
roll
so in a
town
where I
was born
lived a
man
who sailed
the seas
you know
it was a
cartoon
right
right
and the
guy that
produced
Martin
the guy
that produced
the Beatles
up until
that point
he made
comedy records
he made
comedy records
and cartoons
and so
that's
at least
that's my
understanding
and he
brought that
to them
you know
and
you know
you have
four guys
writing songs
it's a lot
better than
John Mellencamp
writing songs
I'll tell you
that
you know
so
yeah
but my
point is
it's like
you can't
make everybody
happy
because
everybody's
not happy
and they
don't want
to be
happy
I have
said for
years
I'm not
for anybody
I'm not
for anybody
anymore
right
if you're
coming to
my show
and this
is when I
started playing
theaters
if you're
coming to
my show
to hear
all these
hits
you're not
going to
but that's
why
after 20
years
I'm going
to go
back out
and I'm
going to
play
nothing
but hits
for two
and a half
hours
that's how
many hit
records
that's
incredible
yeah
it's going
to be
you know
and I'm
and now
I'm looking
forward to it
yeah
because I
have not
played
I Need a
Lover
in 25
years
on stage
I'm not
so it's
fresh
yeah
it's a
brand
new
song
I'm
going to
be
playing
it
in a
way
that
nobody's
ever
imagined
wait
till
if you
come
and see
me
wait
do you
hear
Jack
and
Diane
I
have
jammed
it
up
and
it's
a soul
song
now
wow
yeah
it's
I
there's
a term
for it
smash
smash
what do
they call
it
smash
something
anyway
we turned
it
into
a
soul
song
I
mean
what
would
it
be
like
if
Jack
and
Diane
was
a
soul
song
so
you
leave
the
melody
the
same
but
you
put
the
instruments
around
them
differently
you know
to make
it
interesting
for you
well
and
and to
the
audience
because
when
the
chorus
comes
in
they're
going
to
be
singing
that
chorus
right
because
if
I
play
it
now
he's
trying
to push
that
thing
up
and
it's
good
because
a
little
ditty
and I
don't
have
to
sing
anymore
right
they
sing
the
whole
song
right
and
I
might
go
oh
yeah
and
that's
it
and
then
the
audience
sings
it
which
is
great
which
is
great
it's
gotta
be
really
cool
I
gotta
come
see
you
live
are
you
in
Texas
at
all
I
don't
know
when
did
you
drop
the
cougar
because
at
first
you
were
John
Cougar
Mellencamp
and I
remember
that
I
was
like
what
is
going
on
why
does
he
have
another
name
it
was
confusing
to
me
well
I
was
trying
to
and
I
think
I
did
it
successfully
it
was
a
good
transition
I
didn't
you
know
I
could
call
up
somebody
and
go
hey
it's
John
Mellencamp
they
wouldn't
take
my
call
I
could
call
back
two
seconds
later
and
go
John
Cougar
and
they
would
take
my
call
so
I
figured
this
will
have
to
be
a
slow
change
Elvis
Costello
tried
to do
the
same
thing
in
Denmark
what
was
his
real
name
I
don't
I
don't
remember
but
that's
not
his
real
name
but
you
know
he
was
tired
of
being
Elvis
Costello
and
he
went
back
to
his
real
name
and
people
just
wouldn't
accept
it
but
with
me
it
was
such
a
slow
burn
thing
to
get
over
so
again
what
lucky
it
was
the
first
time
that
I
recognized
that
artists
were
forced
to
change
their
name
was
you
I
didn't
know
really
yeah
I
had
no
idea
do
you
know
that
every
fucking
movie
star
that
we
ended
up
watching
on
those
black
and
white
things
that's
not
any
of
their
real
names
they're
all
changed
they're
all
changed
you
think
Rock Hudson
was his
real
name
sounds
good
yeah
it
sounds
great
yeah
now
yeah
somebody
decided
they wanted
to come up
with a
catcher
name
which is
interesting
for a guy
like Arnold
Schwarzenegger
had kept
his real
name as
bizarre as
it was
and hard
to pronounce
yeah
yeah
and I
just saw
him
smashing
the
president
yeah
he's always
smashing
somebody
I think
he's
bored
he needs
to get
back
and run
he was
a great
governor
he really
was
he did
a really
good job
with
California
California
is a
fucking
mess
now
when you
transitioned
to
John
Cougar
Mellencamp
and then
eventually
how long
did
were you
John
Cougar
Mellencamp
before you
became
John
Mellencamp
again
I think
the last
John
Mellencamp
John
Cougar
Mellencamp
record
was
a record
I could
it was
called
Scarecrow
and it
had small
town on
it
it had
small town
on it
it had
five
hit
can you
imagine
it had
five
fucking
hit
records
off
that one
album
pretty
amazing
yeah
lucky
and don't
forget
I had
never
written
a
fucking
song
that's
what's
crazy
yeah
never
written
a song
so
I
grew up
in
public
and
if you
listen
to
my
songs
now
so
much
more
mature
than
than
those
young
I
got so
sick
of it
that I
wrote
a song
called
Pop
Singer
in
like
90
91
never
wanted
to
be
no
pop
singer
never
wanted
to
sing
no
pop
song
I
remember
that
never
wanted
to
you know
have a
manager
hang out
after the
show
I
just
you know
it was
I wanted
to be
a musician
and not
a clown
which
you know
if you
remember back
Joe
and I'm
putting anybody
down
and
but
there
were
a lot
of
clownish
guys
yeah
from
MTV
sure
you know
that were
like
what
yeah
you know
and a lot
of sexism
and stuff
from MTV
and no
black people
for a while
you know
they didn't
play any
black people
they might
play
Michael Jackson
but other
than that
right
but they
just didn't
and I
remember
talking to
Sykes
about
Sykes
me
Don
Henley
and somebody
else
went
and did
they were
going to
drop MTV
off a whole
bunch of
stations
and we
got on
a plane
and went
there
went to all
these different
stations
that were
going to
drop MTV
and talked
to them
why they
couldn't
do it
and it
worked
why were
they dropping
MTV
too
lewd
too
I
want to
tell you
something
else
young
man
I
want to
tell you
something
else
I
showed
that
by
accident
in a
video
and
MTV
wasn't
going to
play
the
video
because
you had
a tattoo
that's
hilarious
yeah
because
I
had a
tattoo
that's
hilarious
I know
oh my
god
it's so
funny
when you
think
about
what
music
is
like
now
and
then
especially
like
in
the
late
80s
when
hip-hop
really
took
off
and
then
gangster
rap
took
off
and
and
now
you
know
why
because
we're
talking
about
sound
scan
and
stuff
that's
how
all
that
happened
and
my
deceased
friend
Tim
White
who
I
love
dearly
told me
it was
going to
happen
and I
just sat
back
and went
I can't
believe
that this
is right
wow
I can't
believe
that
that can
happen
rock is
too
important
to the
culture
too
important
you know
and there's
a lot
better
songwriters
than me
and
we all
got
86
I mean
like the
fucking
Rolling Stones
just put out
a new
album
and I
never
heard it
you
never
heard it
no
I saw
them
live
a couple
of years
ago
here
they played
at the
Circuit
of the
Americas
it was
fucking
incredible
it was
like having
an out of
body
experience
it's
like I
couldn't
believe
they were
really
there
yeah
I
remember
watching
Mick Jagger
on stage
and
my friend
was
talking
to
me
and
I
was
watching
him
and
he's
like
isn't
this
fucking
incredible
I was
like
I
can't
I
can't
believe
it's
really
him
it's
like
they're
so
iconic
and
here
he
is
in
his
fucking
80s
just
jamming
the
guy
brings
two
trailers
two
whole
trailers
that
are
just
gym
equipment
yeah
everywhere
he
goes
works
out
every
day
every
year
we
we
started
farm
in
1985
and
every
year
because
you
have
a
at
farm
aid
you
have
a
press
conference
in the
beginning
and
then I
don't
go on
until
like
nine
o'clock
so
I
got
all
day
you
know
what I
do
half
the
day
Neil
can I
use
your
fucking
gym
equipment
because
he's
got a
trailer
like
you know
you would
haul
groceries
and
couches
and shit
and it's
full
gym
equipment
can I
use
your
so
I
use
his
not his
weight
so much
but
but his
you know
his
what do you
call it
I call
it the
lazy
machine
where you
can be
lazy
elliptical
yeah
hey
listen
it's
better
than
nothing
yeah
but
I mean
watching
Mick
in his
80s
dancing
around
on stage
and doing
a you
know
two hour
concert
was full
energy
so
impressive
it's so
inspirational
that this
guy still
loves it
that much
I mean
he wasn't
phoning
nothing in
you know
I mean
it was
fucking
him
dancing
button
yo
lit
baby
I mean
it was
full on
it was
like
wow
it was
amazing
and
what I
find
amazing
and
I
don't
know
why
I
find
amazing
but
I
find
it
amazing
that
people
relate
to music
in that
fashion
because I
didn't know
that as a
kid
I just
thought
you know
I thought
I'd make
two records
and that'd
be done
that's why
I stayed
in Bloomington
I had a
little bit
of money
I
didn't
know
how much
more
I'd have
you know
how much
longer
I was
going to
last
so
let's
try to
like
buy a
little
house
and
I
talked to
I'm good
friends with
Bruce
and
him and I
both
kind of
just look at each
other and go
can you
fucking believe it
because he's
from a real
little
shitty town
in New
Jersey
and
we both
just look at
each other
and go
can you
believe it
it's
unbelievable
well
gratitude's
an important
thing
it's kind
of co-opted
today
with a lot
of like
this
spiritual
movement
you know
people say
it and it
kind of
sounds hollow
and fake
but real
gratitude
real
thankfulness
for
a life
that you've
been so
lucky to
have
and I've
been so
lucky to
have
it's
it's
very
important
it's an
amazing
thing
I mean
how could
you not
look back
at your
life
and not
think
can you
fucking
believe it
yeah
and you
know
the thing
of it
is that
I sometimes
ask my
audience
I go
where are
you right
now
and most
of you
probably
say
I am
at a
John
Mellencamp
concert
in
Austin
Texas
and my
answer is
yes
but also
where you
really are
you're
on a
fucking
rock
that's
going
around
the
fucking
sun
that
has
been
here
for
millions
of
fucking
years
and so
we are
only here
for a
blink of
an eye
so stop
worrying
about
everything
so
fucking
much
it
doesn't
fucking
matter
don't
beep
your
horn
because
the
fucking
guy
in front
of you
didn't
take off
right when
the light
turned red
it's not
that important
don't take
yourself
so fucking
seriously
and try
to
have
some
humility
you know
that's
what I
hate
about
politics
today
there's
no
fucking
humility
how about
some
humility
I don't
care what
party
you're
with
I don't
give a
fuck
but show
some
humility
and some
you know
respect
for each
other
which they
just don't
right
they just
don't
it's terrible
yeah
there's
a lot
of that
if we
can get
more people
to recognize
how
brief
and fleeting
this moment
alive is
it's
it's
it's
so
well
I got it
tattooed
right here
on my arm
and my
grandmother
told me
this
when she
should have
to be
a hundred
and I
would go
over and lay
in bed
with her
when she
was like
ninety
nine
ninety
eight
and one
day she
said to
me
she goes
you know
John
if you
don't
stop
this
cussing
and wild
living
you're not
going to
get into
heaven
and I
went
ah
grandma
she goes
she goes
yes
you know
you need
to change
your ways
a little
bit
and I
said
yeah
well
you'll
get me
into
heaven
don't
worry
about
it
and she
said
no
she
said
you're
going
to find
out
real
soon
now
listen
life
is
short
even
in
its
longest
days
it
certainly
feels
short
when you
look
back
right
oh
yeah
but
just
think
just
think
about
those
words
coming
from
a
hundred
year
old
woman
yeah
you know
life
is
short
even
in
its
longest
days
really
the
opposite
end
of the
spectrum
oh
yeah
life
goes
on
right
right
right
right
so I
wrote a
song
called
life
is
short
and
and
I
love
playing
it
I
love
playing
it
because
it
really
hits
the
nail
on
the
head
of
you
know
getting
how
would
you say
you were
58
58
years
old
you're
still
a
kid
how
old
are you
now
74
wow
well you
look
great
thanks
maybe
we can
go on a
date
tomorrow
is
singing
and performing
is it
different
now
do you
appreciate
it
more
now
when
you
were
younger
is
it
a
different
feeling
because
like
you've
done
so
much
and
it's
the
scope
of
it
is
so
big
now
in
retrospect
well
like I
said
I'm
really
looking
forward
to
going
out
and
doing
a
greatest
hits
tour
I've
never
done
one
I
can't
even
imagine
thinking
back
to when
I was
like
35
that
idea
would
be
like
shut
the
fuck
up
I'm
not
doing
that
right
but
now
at
my
age
it's
kind
of
like
and
I
did
a
thing
with
Sean Penn
and Sean
and I
were talking
and he
goes
Sean
just go
do it
because I
was on
the fence
about
doing it
he goes
what's wrong
with you
yes
go do it
don't you
think that
if I
could
like
show the
best
parts
of my
movies
to
people
that I
would
do
it
and I
go
I
don't
angry
he goes
yeah
because
you're
really
sharing
something
well it's
also not a
whole lot
of people
have ever
done it
before
right
not a
whole lot
of people
have ever
had the
kind of
hits
that you've
had
so the
opportunity
to go
out there
and do
two and a
half hours
of fucking
hits
is amazing
I know
I have
to
like I
said
I walk
in my
house
and I
go
I can't
believe
I get
to live
and you
know
I
feel
good
about
you know
I'm
the only
father
in the
world
that does
not
encourage
their
kids
to
work
it's
like
what do
you want
to go
to work
for
you know
my son
graduated
from Duke
and it's
just like
fuck that
work stuff
do what you
want to do
you're 31
years old
you're handsome
you're 31
years old
you could beat
anybody up
in the room
you know
why do you
want to
but I
think he's
getting to
the age
where he
wants to
get a job
and I
don't want
him to
leave
because he
still lives
on my
property
and it's
nice
I love
having him
in there
I love
having
Hud
live with
me
he doesn't
live with
me
he lives
in a
different
house
a different
building
and
but I
love
having him
there
because I
know
that I
can pick
up
Thorne
and go
hey
Hud
and he's
there
and I'm
telling you
having kids
was one of
the best
things I
ever did
it's
interesting
too
because
having a
kid
when you're
in high
school
a lot
of people
think
is like
a death
sentence
for your
career
you know
well it
was a
death
sentence
from my
kid
because
you know
I was
18 years
old
I was
on drugs
you know
my idea
of raising
a kid
back then
when I was
in college
was throwing
water balloons
at her
that's all
I knew
it was like
this is fun
you know
but it
turned out
you know
but yeah
I
really
enjoy
my kids
and my
dad told
me that
he told
me have
as many
kids as
you can
because
when you
get older
because see
I had
I don't
know about
you
but I
had
seven
of my
best
friends
die in
18 months
wow
yeah
because they
couldn't get
off the
party
they just
couldn't get
off the
party
because they
were drunk
all the
time
I mean
if you
drank
crown
royal
every
fucking
day
yeah
it's
gonna
fuck
up
your
liver
and
100%
yeah
and that's
what they
did
I mean
you know
except
Tim
Tim
had a
heart
attack
Tim
White
the guy
I was
telling you
about
he died
on an
elevator
ride
from
in New
York
from
the ground
floor
to his
office
and by
the time
he got
up there
he was
dead
wow
but he
would call
me up
every day
and go
man
my chest
really hurts
my back
really hurts
you know
and I
would go
Tim
your dad
died
of
at like
49
from heart
disease
you think
you're
going to
the doctor
I don't
want to
go
and that's
what
that's
what most
guys do
they don't
want to
go to
the
fucking
doctor
yeah
yeah
you know
but I
do
does the
doctor tell
you to
stop
smoking
all
the time
but see
here's
here's the
thing about
cigarettes
find
something
you love
and let
it kill
you
find
something
you love
and let
it kill
you
yeah
I don't
know
it's not
killing
you
yet
and I
just had
a
I just
had
a
heart
mammogram
and all
that stuff
and the
doctors
go
because the
heart is
shaped like
this
you know
like that
and then
what happens
is is that
as you
longer you
smoke
it flattens
out and
that way
it's full
of crap
mine's
still like
this
and he
said
two years
ago
he said
well
I'd like
to tell you
you need
to quit
smoking
but if
you've been
smoking as
long as
I know
you have
the only
thing that's
really
happened
is that
your heart
looks like
a teenager's
and your
voice sounds
black
so
do you
think it's
because you
smoke
American
spirits
I talked
to a
doctor
that said
that to
me
Suzanne
Humphrey
she was
like
I think
that one
of the
things
that's
killing
people
is
cigarettes
with
all the
additives
in it
all the
different
chemicals
120
chemicals
I
my
girlfriend
hates
that I
fucking
smoke
of course
she knew
I was
smoking
when she
met me
but now
that we've
been together
for three
years
and my
wife of
20 years
Elaine
never smoked
a cigarette
in her life
until she
met me
and then
she started
smoking
she on
one hand
just said
well fuck it
if you can't
beat them
join them
so she
started smoking
but Kristen
hates
cigarettes
and
I
I don't
know what
to tell her
because
you know
I don't
do much
good
but I'm
really a
good smoker
really good
what is it
they love
about cigarettes
so much
they're part
of me
I don't
know how
to put it
I mean
I smoked
my first
cigarette
at 10
wow
10
64 years
of smoking
yeah
that's crazy
and you're
okay
I was
addicted
in high
school
wow
I used
to wake
up in
the morning
and my
parents
had a
great big
house
and I
would go
down
in the
basement
go into
the fucking
storm cellar
and smoke
not knowing
that I
came out
of that
little area
smelling
like a
cigarette
ashtray
right
and my
parents
you know
it's like
have you
been
smoking
downstairs
yeah
but they
never said
anything
well
maybe it's
better than
having the
stress of
not smoking
one of the
things about
smoking
and I'm
not an
advocate
I'm not
telling people
they should
smoke
but maybe
one of the
things about
it is that
at least
it relaxes
you
I think
one of the
worst things
for people
is just
stress
I was
talking about
a friend
of mine
who's
going through
something
pretty heavy
right now
and he's
had a couple
of heart
attacks
and there's
nothing wrong
with him
he's had
heart attacks
just from
stress
where his
fucking
arteries
just lock
up
his whole
body
is just
locked up
just from
anxiety
and stress
and he's
had heart
attacks
because
that
doesn't
smoke
doesn't
drink
takes care
of himself
and just
the
problems
in his
life
are so
overwhelming
there's
got to be
there's
a benefit
there's
got to
be a
benefit
to just
relaxing
just
enjoying
something
and relaxing
and not
having
that
overwhelming
stress
it's amazing
how much
cigarettes
take you
away
from
because
you've
got to
you know
nowadays
if you're
a cigarette
smoker
you know
I'm lucky
to be here
with you
that I
could smoke
in your
area
but most
people would
go
go outside
yeah
but I'll
tell you a
funny story
about Johnny
Cash
and me
John
and I
knew each
other
and I
would go
down
and I
would see
him in
Jamaica
and then
he got
really sick
but John
quit smoking
and John
and I
did
did something
for the
Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame
and
it's another
funny story
we were
standing around
doing
getting ready
to do
soundchecking
there was a
whole bunch
of people
playing
a whole bunch
of people
and the
Eagles were
on sound
checking
and they
were taking
forever
because Don
Henley
is a
perfectionist
everything's
out of
Beaches
right
and I
was standing
with John
and June
and John
was getting
irritated
because we
were like
40 minutes
you know
we'd been
standing there
ready to
soundcheck
for 40
minutes
so
while we're
standing there
I was smoking
and John
goes you're
going to quit
that smoking
John
he's going
to catch
up with
you
someday
I said
will you
fucking
smoke
and he
goes
well I
used to
but I
saw this
guy from
London
and he
he got
me to quit
smoking
I go
maybe I
should see
that guy
he goes
okay yeah
I will
you will
anyway
so
so anyway
we finally
get on
to soundcheck
and John
soundchecked
without me
because I
just sang
one song
with him
and then
when it
came time
to soundcheck
I went
you know
John
you know
he was
irritated
I don't
know if
you knew
Johnny Cash
or not
he had
fucking
temper
you know
you didn't
fuck with
John Cash
you just
didn't
anyway
I said
you know
John
you know
I got
this song
and we
were doing
Ring of Fire
I said
I know
that song
it's easy
he said
you sure
and I said
yeah
yeah I got
it
I got it
he goes
okay well
thanks
because you
know
I'm sick
of fucking
being here
so
the next
night
we get up
there
and John
and he
introduces
me
to my
friend
John
Mellencamp
he started
song
I
fell
into
I
didn't
realize
that he
had
changed
the
fucking
key
from him
smoking
to a
lower
key
so I
couldn't
hit
the
note
cause
it
was
I
fell
into
I
fell
I
couldn't
find
a fucking
note
because
it
was
not
the
note
the
song
was
written
in
I
sing
right
along
with
the
song
and I
look
over
there
and
there's
Chuck Berry
going
and I
look over
there
and there's
Springsteen
going
and all
these
people
on the
side
of the
stage
right
they're
all
giving me
a look
like
you're
fucking
up
man
it was
like
yeah
I
know
it
and so
anyway
as soon
as the
song was
over
I ran
off stage
I was
totally
humiliated
right
so I
ran
off stage
and got
to my
trailer
I
just
get
back
there
and
all
of
sudden
knock
on the
door
and I
answer
and it's
John
and he
said
can I
come
in
and I
go
I
don't
know
why
he'd
want
to
but
yeah
come
on
in
he
goes
I
told
you
we
should
have
sound
checked
anyway
so that
conversation
led on
to
I
know
this
guy
who
will
get
you
to
quit
smoking
and so
he
gives
me
all
the
information
and
me
and
two
other
guys
fly
this
guy
over
from
London
and
Joe
here
was
his
solution
for
not
smoking
he
gave
me
a
good
talking
too
that's
it
that
was
it
I
was
smoking
on
the
way
back
to
Indiana
my
friend
Ron
White's
been
smoking
his
whole
life
and
he
just
stopped
and
he
went
to
a
hypnotist
same
hypnotist
he
quit
drinking
a few
years
back
went
to
a
hypnotist
quit
drinking
easy
he
said
it
was
so
easy
and
then
just
recently
like
within
the
last
three
or
four
weeks
quit
smoking
he's
almost
70
just
said
the
hypnotist
got him
and
said
now
he
doesn't
have
the
desire
he
goes
sometimes
he
goes
after
sex
he
goes
after
a
meal
sometimes
I
have
like
for
a
brief
second
I
don't have
to worry
about that
I'm too
old
for
sex
I
don't have
to worry
about
that
anymore
well
I guess
Ron
still gets
after it
because
well
I'll tell
you
I was
friends
with
the
Newman
family
and
Paul
quit
smoking
and
died
right
afterwards
was
the
smoking
contributing
to his
health
problems
yeah
and
it
was
just
like
he
was
older
it
was
like
you
know
I
mean
he
was
like
80s
I
don't
know
can
you
see
how old
he
was
when
he
died
anyway
so
you
know
I
just
kind
of
went
find
what
you
love
and
let
it
kill
you
yeah
find
what
you
love
and
let
it
kill
you
83
yeah
I
fucking
loved
that
guy
Hustler
one of
my
favorite
movies
of all
time
well
I'm
really
good
friends
with
Joanne
who
now
is
I
love
Joanne
and
once
Paul
died
I
became
her
boyfriend
and
she
and I
would talk
all the time
on the phone
and whenever
I was in
New York
or
or the
town she
lives in
north of
New York
I'd
take her
to plays
and
we'd
go
to plays
and we'd
do
do stuff
and I'd
pinch her
on the
ass
and
she'd
look at
me like
but then
when she
started
when I
would call
her
and she
started
calling me
Paul
I would
have to
go
Joanne
it's
not
Paul
it's
John
and now
I still
go see
her all
the time
not as much
as I
should
but she
I can't
remember
the fucking
town she
lives in
anyway
she can't
talk
she can't
you know
she has
what do you
call it
dementia
and she
can't talk
and she
can you
know I
take my
guitar and
I'll play
and sing
for her
but you
know she's
always happy
to see me
I think
she realizes
that it's
me
though I
love her
I mean
she was
just
she was
just
great
she was
a great
woman
how I
met her
was at
a
democratic
thing
for
who was
the guy
that ran
for president
John
John Kerry
John Kerry
and it was
at Radio
City
and I
have a
son named
Hud
and Paul
Newman
starred in
the movie
Hud
and so
Newman
walked in
to
my
dressing room
and goes
I'm
looking for
Hud
Mellencamp
and
he was
with me
but he
was running
around
Radio
City
somewhere
have you
been to
Radio
City
yes
have you
been backstage
mm-hmm
there's all
kind of
shit
going on
you can
go anywhere
in that
place
anyway so
Hud was
running around
there and I
just let him
go wherever
he wants
and I'm
sitting there
talking to
Paul
and I
think this
is pretty
cool
and then
Joanne
walked in
and was
like
all right
Newman
hey
because she
was beautiful
I mean
Jo
you cannot
she must
have been
in her
late 50s
something like
that
she was
gorgeous
it's like
one of the
prettiest women
I'd ever
seen
and so I
just kind
of like
who else
I'd meet
you Paul
hey
Joanne
and that's
how we
became
friends
and even
before
he died
her and I
were talking
on the
phone
and
yeah
I love
Joanne
I hope
she lives
forever
but
you know
I know
the people
take care
of her
and
it's sad
it's just
hard to
see someone
in a
deteriorated
state like
that
as they
get older
well
you know
have you
ever seen
the movie
I can't
think
The Fugitive
Kind
what is
it
The Fugitive
Kind
I don't
think so
Rogan
you gotta
watch it
yeah
it's great
you love
it
it's called
The Fugitive
Kind
it stars
Brando
and Joanne
Woodward
and
it's just
such a
written by
Tennessee
Williams
it's really
really good
really good
it's one of my
favorite movies
ever made
The Fugitive
Kind
I'll check
it out
yeah
yeah
and
I
I know
a lot about
old movies
because I
don't watch
new movies
if it's
not in
black and
white
I'm not
watching
really
yeah
has it
always been
the case
or is that
a new
thing
no
it's always
been
really
yeah
my girlfriend
Kristen will
talk to me
you know
that actor
and I'll
go
no
I don't
I don't
know
anybody
in the
in the
entertainment
business anymore
except guys
my age
you know
that's probably
a good thing
but I don't
know any
of them
you know
I know
Sean
you know
but I
I've known
Sean since
he was a
kid
before
Ridgemont
High
oh wow
that's how long
I've known
that guy
wow
that was a
fucking great
movie
yeah it was
they can't make
a comedy like
that anymore
oh no they
couldn't even
get it
they wouldn't
make it again
not a chance
no
not a chance
at all
that's the
thing with
political
correctness
and then the
woke movement
that's the
thing that
really died
was the
great comedy
movies
the inappropriate
well you
answer me
this question
yeah
why did
anybody
give a
shit
anyway
I mean
you know
86 and
what was
the senator
the guy
the comedian
that wrote
for Saturday
Night Live
who was
Al Franken
yeah
yeah
I just
said fuck
you guys
yeah
should have
yeah
yeah I mean
why did
he let
some
I don't know
the climate
got crazy
people lost
their fucking
minds
and I think
it's kind
of turned
around
and people
are kind
of recognizing
that it was
a massive
overcorrection
it was
but the
problem is
the comedy
films
like if you
go back
and watch
you know
like Tropical
Thunder
or any
of those
kind of
crazy movies
that were
like really
outrageous
and funny
like you
know you
can't make
them today
nobody wants
to fund
them and
finance them
nobody wants
the heat
nobody wants
to deal
with the
criticism
they essentially
killed
comedy
movies
well and
that's what
I was asking
you how
is doing
stand up
you can't
kill stand up
the problem
is stand up
it's like
people will
come to see
you and
that's all
that matters
people come
to see you
and they
laugh
that's all
that matters
the critics
don't matter
who's your
favorite stand
up comedian
now
alive
there's so
many good
ones right
now
I mean
Chappelle's
probably the
greatest
one of the
greatest
of all time
and we're
lucky we have
him alive
now
but you know
Bill Burr's
great
Shane Gillis
there's
it's an amazing
time for stand
up
David Tell
it's probably
like the most
unheralded
great comic
that's alive
today
there's so
many great
comedy
so many great
comedians
now
what about
Jim Jeffries
Jim Jeffries
is funny
there's
new
Australian
guy
there's
you know
more comics
now
that are
huge
than I
think
have ever
been
alive
in the
history
of comedy
because
of YouTube
and
and definitely
Netflix
because
there's just
more comedy
to see
there's more
comedy
to go
watch
there's more
comics right now
or selling
out arenas
than ever
in the history
of stand up
comedy
yeah I've
seen it on
television
you just can't
worry about
what the haters
think
you can't
worry about
that
you just
gotta just
do what
you think
is funny
and what
you think
the audience
is gonna
think is funny
and work
real hard
at it
that's all
you have
to do
and just
don't pay
attention
to the
criticism
if you do
it'll
kill you
the best
stand up
comedian
movie I
ever saw
was the
first
Richard
Pryor
oh
live
on the
Sunset
Strip
changed
my life
well that
changed
my life
that was
the third
one
was it
yeah
so
wanted
was before
that
right
yeah
and that
took place
in New
Orleans
okay
there was
one he
filmed
in Long
Beach
that
is the
one I'm
talking
phenomenal
phenomenal
unbelievable
phenomenal
unbelievable
and while
he's getting
on stage
people are
still coming
in and
sitting
down
I
know
he's
fucking
with
people
as they're
coming
in and
sitting
down
I don't
yeah
he had
what's
the woman's
name
the singer
oh he had
a musical
opening act
yeah
interesting
I can't
remember who
it was
but he
thanked him
he thanked
her
oh okay
but I
saw that
in like
19
whatever
year
it was
79
when it
came out
and I
was in
Florida
and I
had to
go into
the black
part of
Miami
to see it
and I
took a
couple guys
in my
band
with me
and this
one guy
named
Ferd
in my
band
was just
an idiot
we walk
in there
and there's
nothing
but black
people
so I'm
okay
except Ferd
walks in
like this
and I
go what
the fuck
are you
doing
what the
fuck
he walked
in grabbing
his dick
yeah
because he
wanted to
show them
that he
was
Patty LaBelle
yeah
that's who
opened up
there it
is
nice
yeah
so anyway
he's grabbing
his dick
walking in
and I'm
looking
I'm
going
are you
out of
your
fucking
mind
stop
stop
doing
that
my parents
took me
to see
live on the
Sunset Strip
when I was
a kid
I was in
high school
and I guess
I was like
15 at the
time
something like
that
and I remember
looking around
at all the
people laughing
and I couldn't
believe how
funny it was
I couldn't
believe how
funny it was
I couldn't
believe this
guy could
just be on
stage
talking
and it
would be
that funny
but I'd
seen all
these comedy
movies that
were really
funny
but nothing
ever made
me laugh
as hard
as this
one man
on stage
talking
I'll never
forget it
I was little
I was like
looking around
the crowd
and people
were just
falling out of
their seats
laughing
slapping
each other
couldn't
couldn't
believe how
funny it
was
well you
know the
backstory
on that
on that
what's the
backstory
the backstory
was that
was take
two
oh yeah
he bombed
the first
one
yeah
well he
for whatever
reason
yeah I did
hear that
he decided
to do the
show backwards
oh wow
so he
started
with
you know
how he
ended
and was
going to
work his
way forward
and I don't
know why
he did
that but
apparently
people that
knew him
told me
that he
would always
do shit
like that
well he
was creative
I had heard
that he was
working it out
at the comedy
store and
then he would
come in on
a Monday night
and it was
bombing and
then by
Friday night
he was
destroying
with the
same
material
he just
figured out
a way
to tweak
it
you know
that was
back when
he was
working
with
Paul
Mooney
Paul
Mooney
was one
of his
writers
who was
a guy
that I
knew
really
well
I
worked
with
him
at the
comedy
store
and so
Mooney
and him
would just
figure out
what the
beats were
so did you
play the
comedy store
a lot
yeah
that was
my home
club
in LA
and how
did you
go down
I got
in
I auditioned
in 1994
you know
I came
from LA
I came
from New
York
rather
to LA
to do
a sitcom
and I
didn't really
give a shit
about the
sitcom
that wasn't
really that
important to
me
I was only
doing it
for money
but while
I was there
I was like
god I gotta
go to the
comedy store
because that
when I
lived in
Boston
when I
first started
stand-up
in 88
they would
talk about
the comedy
store
like it
was a
religious
experience
it was
like
Mecca
because
this was
after Sam
Kennison
had made
it
of course
Richard Pryor
had come
from there
Bill Hicks
had come
from there
David Letterman
so many people
had come
from there
Robin Williams
and so
they just
talked about
it with
like hushed
tones
like man
you gotta
get to
the comedy
store
it was
like a
pilgrimage
like you
had to
get there
and I
got there
in 94
and never
left
you know
until the
pandemic
yeah I
was friends
with Letterman
because he's
from Indianapolis
and his
mom used
to come down
to my house
in Bloomington
and we'd
have his
mom and
his stepdad
would come
down and
have dinner
with me
at my
house
and so
Letterman
I did a
couple things
on Letterman
where I
cooked a
cake with
his mom
in Indianapolis
and brought
the cake
to David
for his
birthday
and I
like Letterman
he's always
been nice
to me
and his
mom told
me a story
I don't
know if
it's true
or not
but I
had just
released
my first
album
and David
was still
doing
the weather
locally
in Indianapolis
oh wow
and he
said to
his mom
if that
kid can
go out
and do
it
I can
too
oh wow
that's what
his mom
said
I don't
know if
that's
true
or not
his mom
told me
that I
never
asked
Dave
about it
you
shouldn't
even ask
let it
live in
legend
yeah
I like
this story
John thank
you so much
man this was a lot of fun
it was a real pleasure
meeting you
I really enjoyed it man
and I've been a big fan of yours for years
so this was a real treat for me
I'm glad I'm glad to be here
and I hope you come and see me play
I would love to I definitely will
yeah
do you tours on your website
is it
johnmellencamp.com or something like that
I don't know
people find it
we'll find it
yeah I don't know
we'll find it
thank you
thank you very much
thank you
it was really fun
thank you
all right
and you're gonna hate those fucking tattoos
nope
I don't think so
I like them
yeah I thought I liked mine too
I thought I liked mine too
bye everybody